WEBVTT
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welcome to another episode of Inside Golden State Politics.
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I'm Bill Boyarsky, former city editor and columnist for the Los Angeles Times, and with me is our producer director, Nancy Boyarsky
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And I'm Sheri Bibb...
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Jeffe, political analyst and self-styled media maven, to you from staring slack-jawed and wide-eyed at my TV, watching the President and the Vice President of the United States, and various candidates in the fast-approaching midterm elections go about destroying the American campaign process spewing truly vile trash talk, maliciousness, nastiness, embracing anything but a reasoned, reasonable discussion of problems and solutions.
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is low for political discourse.
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So low you couldn't limbo under it.
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So ugly, so personal, so prominent in the most disgusting collection of attack ads I've ever encountered.
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I'm looking at you, Vivek.
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You may notice that I am royally pissed.
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am also appalled and saddened.
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just don't see the noxious trajectory of American politics righted anytime soon.
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Former GOP Ohio Governor John Kasich has observed, and I quote,"My heart is bleeding for this country." End quote.
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Mine Over to you, Bill
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Sherry, our guest today is Bob Stern, who is a veteran observer, not observer, scholar of California politics and of something that's occupying our thoughts in the next last couple of weeks, the initiative process.
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Bob who was a colleague of mine when I was fortunate enough to work for the Center for Governmental Studies, which was a pioneering group that really dug up the dirt on on California politics and what was going on.
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I worked with him there.
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Bob is a teacher at Santa Monica College emeritus s- group teaching, and he teaches at UCLA also.
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A well-rounded person, a man of of a wide experience, and a person with very strong ideas on what's happening in this world.
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Bob your forte, is the initiative process, and my first question, and I've brought this up with you many times when we've had meals together and argued, what is the sense of the initiative process?
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What a waste of time.
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Why do we have it?
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Why can't we leave it up to the legislature?
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Why do we have to throw these extremely complicated measures in the hands of the poor, abused public?
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I read a couple of...
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us what you really think
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a couple of them.
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I've looked at them.
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I've been dutifully.
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I've looked at two or three or four of them, and I tell you, I don't understand them.
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I never will understand them, and I'm too busy to spend the days and days that it would take to do that.
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So why do we need them?
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Why can't we just let the legislature do it?
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Make it simple
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bill, first of all, thank you, and thank you, Sherry, for inviting me to be on the your podcast.
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I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you, Bill.
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Sure, we can let the legislature do it.
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Let's let Congress do it.
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Congress is doing such a fabulous job these days, aren't they, in terms of solving all of our problems?
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But there are some issues, Bill, the legislature would never address.
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For example, political reform, campaign disclosure, conflicts of interest and lobbying.
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I...
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When I was working in the Secretary of State's office for Jerry Brown, we presented bills to the legislature on campaign disclosure, conflicts of interest and lobbying, and the legislature said,"Forget it.
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We're not interested in doing something that affects us." And so there was an initiative that I helped draft that went out to the ballot, and 70% of the California voters voted for it.
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This was 1974.
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It is still in effect.
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So there are certain things, term limits would be another one
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Are you talking about Prop nine,
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I'm talk- I'm talking about Prop 9 in 1974, the Political Reform Act of 1974.
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Yeah.
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Unfortunately though that night that it was passing by 70%, I turned to my colleague and I said,"Dan, I'm 30 years old.
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Is this the highlight of my professional career?" And he said,"I don't know." And unfortunately, 50 years ago, that was the highlight of my professional career, Bill
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My condolences to you Bob, but that doesn't really answer the question and I think it's been raised very well by our colleague George Skelton in his column in the LA Times.
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These things are really complicated.
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You look at the ballot and there are some that are pretty simple but at least some of these things are really hard to understand.
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Proposition 41 deals with state revenues and Proposition 43 allows the legislature to raise local taxes.
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I think I have three question marks written by it.
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These things are really complicated.
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I used to cover the state legislature for the Associated Press and later for the LA Times and, we spent a lot of effort and a lot of time trying to understand these measures.
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And not only that, we had a marvelous boss who wouldn't permit us to send anything out unless it were absolutely clear and understandable.
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B-Bob, we couldn't even refer to a measure by its number in our office.
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We couldn't say Proposition 43.
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He'd say what does it do?" We had to explain things, and we went to a lot of trouble to do that.
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So here's the citizen, the voter, having to go through the same process if they do it.
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I think it's too much to ask and I still don't understand why we're doing it.
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Is-- we're doing it, we're doing it because the legislature won't act?
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Wait a minute.
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I wanna butt in here because, I had long been a supporter of the initiative process, but let's go back to what the initiative process was supposed to do as part of the reform movement in the early 20th century.
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I l- I defended it because it seemed to me, since special interests had such control over Sacramento, over the policy process, over the legislature, that the initiative could give citizens at least a little push into the ability to reach the legislature, to have some kind of a say policymaking.
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that's not the case anymore.
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As I explained, there are certain things the legislature will never pass.
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Term limits would be one, political reform was another.
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A- and Prop 13
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remember Prop 1A of 1966, which created the modern California legislature.
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That passed,
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Yes, but p-
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It was a different political world.
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There was a much stronger both in terms of the governor's office and in terms of the legislature.
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interestingly, now that you mention it, all these reforms originally included reforms that for the judicial branch, and basically the, the judicial branch said, no.
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No." took it out of the legislative qualified initiative.
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That was a big one.
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It used to be, that every once in a while the legislature did do something that it should do.
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There's a whole lot more, I think, involved.
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I've learned never to say never in politics, and I think the same is true in policy.
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And in life.
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So
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Bob, tell, let's get down to specifics.
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Let's talk about
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answer your question.
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a minute.
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Yeah.
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Go ahead, Bob
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I want you guys to name an initiative that's passed where a majority of the voters said,"Whoops, we made a big mistake," the day after the election, and I can't think of very many where the voters were fooled into passing something.
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they're often fooled into turning them down, but I can't find an initiative that's passed where the voters said the next day,"We made a mistake." Now, I can see after several years where they said they make a mistake.
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For example, gay marriage.
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The voters in 2000 voted to ban gay marriage.
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The day after the election, I'll bet a majority of the voters were against gay marriage.
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But a couple years ago, the voters said,"No, we want gay marriage," and they voted for gay marriage, and I'll bet the day after the election they said they, that they wanted that.
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So sometimes voters will ch- change their minds, but I don't think they're very often fooled into passing these things.
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What about Proposition E?
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if you ask the voters today,"Should we repeal the initiative process?" I think you'd maybe get 25% of saying yes
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What about Proposition thir--
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That's what
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about Proposition 13, which certainly had some impact on state government?
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1978, it was,
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you-
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was a it was a tax limit
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Property
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property tax.
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Property taxes were too high.
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The voters rebelled.
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Under the leadership of the late great Howard Jarvis.
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They passed Proposition 13, which eliminated this injustice.
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Later on, as the voters soon found out it did more harm than good.
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What about that?
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I don't even think today the voters would repeal Prop 13, but the day after Pr- after Prop 13 was passed?
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Look, I voted against Prop 13.
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You probably voted against Prop 13.
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It was a terrible proposition, but the voters wanted it because the legislature didn't do anything about it, and so the voters said, we're gonna do something about it." I often disagree with the voters, but that doesn't mean that we don't live, in a democracy where the voters say,"Okay, this is what we want," and we should respect that
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Listen, and don't forget the legislature finally moved to do something about Prop 13, and they created Proposition A, which basically they prayed would then disqualify Prop 13.
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what?
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The voters knew what they wanted,
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That's my point.
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13 won.
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That's my point.
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We may disagree with the voters, but after all, it's a majority counts.
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Majority rules in this country
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Let's talk about a couple things that are actually on the ballot that the voters are gonna have to, whether they like it or not, are gonna have to vote on in a couple of weeks.
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One of them is, one of them is Proposition 39, which would require voters to present some sort of a ID before they vote, or they have to identify themselves.
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Bob, isn't that something that the legislature could decide?
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Why do the voters have to decide that?
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One reason is because it's a, Trump deal to increase the Republican vote, but that's something else.
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Why does this have to go before the voters?
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Because somebody circulated a ballot measure and s- enough signatures qualified it for the ballot.
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I'm against Prop 39, but the legislature is not gonna pass something dealing with this.
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If the legislature doesn't pass it, have a right to circulate a ballot initiative, put it on the ballot.
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It's probably gonna go down, but, the idea of Prop 39 is to increase voter confidence, and Prop 39 does not go as far as the Trump proposal at the national level.
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It basically only requires two things.
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It requires you to put your driver's license, four four digits of your driver's license on the back of the envelope if you mail in the ballot, and if you go in person, and only 20% of us go in person anymore to the polling place, you have to present an ID.
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Not a birth certificate, not a passport, but just any ID.
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So it's Trump lite as far as I'm concerned.
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But, Prop 39 is not
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God, I'm sorry, but it is political.
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Of course it's political.
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The Republicans are in support of it, the Democrats are against it
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And don't forget that California right now has a pretty decent method of voter ID, probably one of the best in the country
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There's no voter ID right now.
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What do you...
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I don't know what you mean.
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You, all you have to do
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They go through what needs to go through
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No, but when you go to the polling place,
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that I get.
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Yeah.
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No.
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Yeah
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when you go to the polling place, you just have to give your name
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Yeah
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There is no voter ID, really.
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California has a very good voting system, a very, ver- it's excellent but there is no voter ID
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What about this Proposition 40?
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That seems pretty straightforward.
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It would levy a big tax on billionaires.
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S- hit the fat cats where they live, in their pocketbooks.
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Isn't that a kind of a decision that the legislature rather than the voters ought to decide?
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Sure, but you do you expect the legislature to decide it?
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The legislature's had all sorts of tax bills, and oftentimes it takes a two-thirds vote of the legislature to increase taxes.
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W- we- you can't get two-thirds of the public to agree on this.
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It's a majority vote.
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The, the billionaires tax is actually fairly simple.
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Do you wanna tax billionaires' wealth?
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A- and we have 250 of them in California right now.
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We have Sergey Brin, who has$265 billion in assets.
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I don't know what even a billion dollars is.
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He has 265 of them.
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But the argument against it is the fact that the billionaires will leave the state, take their companies with them, and the state will actually lose revenue.
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And Governor Newsom's against it.
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Xavier Becerra's against it.
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Katie Porter, the liberal congress- former co- liberal congresswoman from Orange County is against it.
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Steve Hilton is against it.
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California Teachers Association are against it.
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So there's a lot, there's a really interesting..
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For it is the California Democratic Party is for it.
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Bernie Sanders is for it.
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The congressman from the Silicon Valley who represents all these Silicon Valley companies, Ro Khanna, is for it.
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And the, the polls show basically it's gonna be close.
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It's 46% in favor, 43% against, 11% undecided.
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Now, it's likely to go down because when you have lots of money spent against a proposition, and lots of money is being spent against this proposition, 90% of the time it's defeated
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the 40 is one, one of only two initiatives that I haven't what to do about.
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Part of me says it's only a temporary fix under any circumstance, and we're gonna be caught some point, and there will be a significant dip in the amount of tax revenue available, particularly obviously from billionaires.
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And then part of me says,"But we've got to do something now." So what do I do?
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The question is it's gonna bring in$100 billion is the estimate over a five-year period.
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And it's a one-time tax, we've said one-time taxes before.
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There's another proposition on the ballot, by the way, Proposition 3, which makes permanent a tax that was supposed to be temporary.
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So you never know whether these are permanent or not.
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But the billionaires are very much against it, and they're putting in hundreds of millions of dollars against this.
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And as I say, l- it's very likely when money is spent against something, it probably goes down because when voters get confused, they vote no
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Exactly.
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And there have been studies that indicate that for at least most initiatives, there's a built-in 20% no vote for that very reason.
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If
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Cool
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they don't understand it, no
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only one third of initiatives pass, by the way.
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Just so just because you get something on the ballot doesn't mean that it's going to pass.
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But I don't see nothing wrong, Bill, with us debating this, whether or not billionaires should be taxed.
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We wouldn't be debating this without the proposition on the ballot.
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We'd be debating voter ID without this proposition on the ballot.
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I like the idea of more discussion and more debates among voters on these issues as opposed to leaving it to the leg- can you imagine leaving it to Congress?
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Congress is do nothing.
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I am supporting, by the way, a national initiative.
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I think we should have it at the federal level.
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We would have term limits for judges.
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We would prohibit legislators congressmen, and the president from engaging in stock trades.
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We'd have all sorts of things.
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This is a do-nothing Congress, and I think we need to have a national initiative as well
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I don't see how we can, and but that would take another 14 hours for us to get into.
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I want to ask you, what do you think about the indirect initiative?
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When an initiative goes first the legislature, and hearings are held, and it is either approved or it is not approved.
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If it's approved, it goes into the code.
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If it's not approved, it then go- can go out to the ballot box
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Yeah, we we've been pushing that for years, and the legislature,
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one.
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We
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the, we'd have it
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1966 legislative reform.
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And we have it
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took the indirect initiative out
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Sherry, we have it now.
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In fact, Prop 43 is an example of that, where Howard Jarvis qualified an initiative, it went to the legislature, then the legislature said,"If we pass a bill, drop your initiative?" And Howard Jarvis said yes, and that's Prop 43, is the legislative measure instead of Prop,
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Now it's not doing it.
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They say- Yeah
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have
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nothing
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initiative now.
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the same thing.
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That's not
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Ca- Sherry, we've had examples where the initiative proponents have gone to the legislature's passed the bill, and they've withdrawn their initiative.
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That's a fairly new reform.
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It's about six years old
00:19:04.655 --> 00:19:05.140
It isn't.
00:19:05.161 --> 00:19:06.218
It used to be.
00:19:07.498 --> 00:19:15.304
They used to be part of our code until the Prop 1A of 1966 was passed
00:19:15.737 --> 00:19:21.184
And Daryl Steinberg pushed through a thing about six or eight years ago for the indirect initiative w- to come back.
00:19:21.195 --> 00:19:22.557
It's back into effect now
00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:27.038
You know, there's one measure on that's going to affect everybody.
00:19:27.086 --> 00:19:31.751
Not everybody, but it's going to affect many homeowners and property owners.
00:19:31.834 --> 00:19:38.528
And that's the effort to modify the California Environmental Quality Act, CEQA.
00:19:39.230 --> 00:19:41.337
It's on the ballot right now as
00:19:41.392 --> 00:19:42.188
35
00:19:42.746 --> 00:19:44.066
Prop 35.
00:19:44.558 --> 00:19:45.443
45
00:19:45.914 --> 00:19:48.063
It's on the ballot as Prop 45.
00:19:48.467 --> 00:19:51.624
Now, that's one that is counter to my argument.
00:19:51.634 --> 00:19:55.538
It's it's really fairly simple and straightforward.
00:19:56.146 --> 00:20:00.092
It gets to a problem that a lot of people are worried about.
00:20:00.107 --> 00:20:07.006
In other words especially NIMBY people who are afraid of having their neighborhoods overrun by high-rises.
00:20:07.515 --> 00:20:07.758
It...
00:20:07.851 --> 00:20:10.770
So that seems to be a good idea to have it for...
00:20:11.146 --> 00:20:15.494
Even though it's counter to my argument, it seems to be a good idea to have that on the ballot
00:20:16.314 --> 00:20:26.429
What Prop 45 does is it's sponsored by the developers who wanna have development, and they wanna have it go through much faster in a shorter time period than we have now.
00:20:26.429 --> 00:20:31.880
Environmental groups are very much against Prop 45, and there's a lot of campaigning against it.
00:20:31.883 --> 00:20:35.897
Even the carpenters, apparently, the, some of the construction workers are against it.
00:20:36.157 --> 00:20:37.787
So they're very concerned about that.
00:20:38.096 --> 00:20:44.808
This is a, th- this deals with CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act, which was passed under Ronald Reagan when he was governor
00:20:45.125 --> 00:20:45.519
This thing is,
00:20:45.761 --> 00:20:47.523
In 19- in 19 70.
00:20:47.911 --> 00:20:59.267
And what we're seeing is developers trying to see if we can speed up the process for approving lots of development, and there's a lot of arguments against it, and particularly the environmental groups are against it
00:21:00.336 --> 00:21:16.575
That's the other initiative that I haven't really decided where I stand because, part of me says we've got to do something to create housing and affordable housing, although I don't think the terminology affordable housing is mandated in this.
00:21:16.903 --> 00:21:28.744
But I also think that there are some environmental considerations that need to be analyzed, that need to be projected.
00:21:29.567 --> 00:21:30.144
do I do?
00:21:31.336 --> 00:21:34.862
Yeah, this is, I think this one is a tough one to look at is Prop 45.
00:21:35.223 --> 00:21:39.365
And I'm probably leaning against it just because there's so many environmental groups who are against it
00:21:41.875 --> 00:21:59.231
I'm just torn totally apart because I know how necessary up the timeframe for development is, how necessary it is to build housing, but I also know the problems that will occur with regard to our environment
00:21:59.905 --> 00:22:00.604
I find this one
00:22:00.981 --> 00:22:01.846
Okay, Bob
00:22:02.798 --> 00:22:10.603
Ronald Reagan and the legislature in 1970 passed CEQA reform, and there's been a lot of disputes since then about whether that...
00:22:10.617 --> 00:22:12.416
how it has affected development.
00:22:12.432 --> 00:22:16.993
And this measure, Prop 45, is designed to speed up the whole process.
00:22:17.247 --> 00:22:20.821
Now, what I find really fascinating is they've exempted the high-speed rail.
00:22:21.731 --> 00:22:25.548
have they exempted the high-speed rail from a, a measure to speed up the process?
00:22:25.549 --> 00:22:30.181
Because a lot of farmers are using CEQA to challenge the high-speed rail.
00:22:30.492 --> 00:22:33.984
So to me, that was really interesting that they would do that.
00:22:34.954 --> 00:22:37.632
What does it mean to data centers?
00:22:38.394 --> 00:22:43.173
Are data centers part of that speeded up timeframe or not?
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.663
The proponents of Prop 45 say no, the data centers are not part of it.
00:22:47.664 --> 00:22:52.157
The opponents are saying they could be, and so that's a question that's gonna have to be decided, by the courts.
00:22:52.571 --> 00:23:04.061
But I think a lot of people are saying, we're not so sure we wanna speed things up if it affects the data centers, affects the high-speed networks, if it affects our properties." So it's gonna be an interesting result on this one.
00:23:04.068 --> 00:23:08.449
45 is one that I think that is everybody's vote's gonna really count on 45.
00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:11.142
It's not gonna go one way or the other in a big way.
00:23:11.608 --> 00:23:14.195
That doesn't make it any easier for me
00:23:15.361 --> 00:23:16.738
Your vote's gonna count, Sherry
00:23:17.768 --> 00:23:19.028
it's about time.
00:23:19.969 --> 00:23:21.816
And Prop 40, your vote's gonna count too.
00:23:21.891 --> 00:23:25.645
Unlike the statewide candidates, our vote really doesn't count.
00:23:25.671 --> 00:23:29.855
It's already been decided who's gonna win the governor's race and all the statewide races, right?
00:23:30.094 --> 00:23:36.432
We know the Democrats are gonna win, but these propositions are important because your vote really will count on some of these.
00:23:36.444 --> 00:23:42.031
They're gonna be close enough where a yes-no vote will make a difference, and that's why I'm glad we're discussing it
00:23:42.676 --> 00:23:44.974
bob, that was really a good insight.
00:23:45.708 --> 00:23:48.777
Thank you, and thanks for being on the show.
00:23:48.777 --> 00:23:50.609
And Sherry, we'll be talking.
00:23:51.329 --> 00:23:51.941
Bye-bye
00:23:52.743 --> 00:23:53.863
cheers everyone.
00:23:53.924 --> 00:23:54.653
Bye-bye.
00:23:55.271 --> 00:23:56.762
Thanks, Bobster
00:23:58.659 --> 00:24:00.555
Thanks again very much for inviting me.
00:24:00.652 --> 00:24:01.196
Appreciate it
00:24:01.503 --> 00:24:03.174
Yes, our pleasure
00:00:00.020 --> 00:00:04.469
welcome to another episode of Inside Golden State Politics.
00:00:04.812 --> 00:00:14.653
I'm Bill Boyarsky, former city editor and columnist for the Los Angeles Times, and with me is our producer director, Nancy Boyarsky
00:00:15.797 --> 00:00:16.896
And I'm Sheri Bibb...
00:00:17.265 --> 00:00:55.408
Jeffe, political analyst and self-styled media maven, to you from staring slack-jawed and wide-eyed at my TV, watching the President and the Vice President of the United States, and various candidates in the fast-approaching midterm elections go about destroying the American campaign process spewing truly vile trash talk, maliciousness, nastiness, embracing anything but a reasoned, reasonable discussion of problems and solutions.
00:00:56.659 --> 00:01:00.298
is low for political discourse.
00:01:00.694 --> 00:01:04.251
So low you couldn't limbo under it.
00:01:04.611 --> 00:01:14.456
So ugly, so personal, so prominent in the most disgusting collection of attack ads I've ever encountered.
00:01:14.864 --> 00:01:17.274
I'm looking at you, Vivek.
00:01:18.105 --> 00:01:22.683
You may notice that I am royally pissed.
00:01:23.486 --> 00:01:26.248
am also appalled and saddened.
00:01:27.004 --> 00:01:35.078
just don't see the noxious trajectory of American politics righted anytime soon.
00:01:35.558 --> 00:01:47.067
Former GOP Ohio Governor John Kasich has observed, and I quote,"My heart is bleeding for this country." End quote.
00:01:48.034 --> 00:01:51.540
Mine Over to you, Bill
00:01:52.016 --> 00:02:11.294
Sherry, our guest today is Bob Stern, who is a veteran observer, not observer, scholar of California politics and of something that's occupying our thoughts in the next last couple of weeks, the initiative process.
00:02:11.342 --> 00:02:29.120
Bob who was a colleague of mine when I was fortunate enough to work for the Center for Governmental Studies, which was a pioneering group that really dug up the dirt on on California politics and what was going on.
00:02:29.169 --> 00:02:30.430
I worked with him there.
00:02:31.266 --> 00:02:40.901
Bob is a teacher at Santa Monica College emeritus s- group teaching, and he teaches at UCLA also.
00:02:41.383 --> 00:02:53.122
A well-rounded person, a man of of a wide experience, and a person with very strong ideas on what's happening in this world.
00:02:53.134 --> 00:03:10.444
Bob your forte, is the initiative process, and my first question, and I've brought this up with you many times when we've had meals together and argued, what is the sense of the initiative process?
00:03:10.614 --> 00:03:12.217
What a waste of time.
00:03:12.676 --> 00:03:13.913
Why do we have it?
00:03:13.943 --> 00:03:16.466
Why can't we leave it up to the legislature?
00:03:16.641 --> 00:03:25.902
Why do we have to throw these extremely complicated measures in the hands of the poor, abused public?
00:03:26.467 --> 00:03:27.536
I read a couple of...
00:03:27.729 --> 00:03:29.299
us what you really think
00:03:29.504 --> 00:03:30.352
a couple of them.
00:03:30.617 --> 00:03:31.868
I've looked at them.
00:03:31.868 --> 00:03:33.006
I've been dutifully.
00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:38.168
I've looked at two or three or four of them, and I tell you, I don't understand them.
00:03:38.414 --> 00:03:45.140
I never will understand them, and I'm too busy to spend the days and days that it would take to do that.
00:03:45.143 --> 00:03:46.782
So why do we need them?
00:03:46.782 --> 00:03:49.219
Why can't we just let the legislature do it?
00:03:49.497 --> 00:03:50.471
Make it simple
00:03:51.506 --> 00:03:56.010
bill, first of all, thank you, and thank you, Sherry, for inviting me to be on the your podcast.
00:03:56.015 --> 00:03:59.096
I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you, Bill.
00:03:59.438 --> 00:04:01.109
Sure, we can let the legislature do it.
00:04:01.109 --> 00:04:02.217
Let's let Congress do it.
00:04:02.217 --> 00:04:07.328
Congress is doing such a fabulous job these days, aren't they, in terms of solving all of our problems?
00:04:07.568 --> 00:04:12.019
But there are some issues, Bill, the legislature would never address.
00:04:12.021 --> 00:04:17.538
For example, political reform, campaign disclosure, conflicts of interest and lobbying.
00:04:17.543 --> 00:04:17.709
I...
00:04:17.733 --> 00:04:28.444
When I was working in the Secretary of State's office for Jerry Brown, we presented bills to the legislature on campaign disclosure, conflicts of interest and lobbying, and the legislature said,"Forget it.
00:04:28.454 --> 00:04:38.678
We're not interested in doing something that affects us." And so there was an initiative that I helped draft that went out to the ballot, and 70% of the California voters voted for it.
00:04:39.026 --> 00:04:40.437
This was 1974.
00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:41.404
It is still in effect.
00:04:41.673 --> 00:04:44.531
So there are certain things, term limits would be another one
00:04:45.653 --> 00:04:47.088
Are you talking about Prop nine,
00:04:47.271 --> 00:04:52.129
I'm talk- I'm talking about Prop 9 in 1974, the Political Reform Act of 1974.
00:04:52.129 --> 00:04:52.428
Yeah.
00:04:52.855 --> 00:05:00.649
Unfortunately though that night that it was passing by 70%, I turned to my colleague and I said,"Dan, I'm 30 years old.
00:05:01.108 --> 00:05:09.947
Is this the highlight of my professional career?" And he said,"I don't know." And unfortunately, 50 years ago, that was the highlight of my professional career, Bill
00:05:11.552 --> 00:05:23.894
My condolences to you Bob, but that doesn't really answer the question and I think it's been raised very well by our colleague George Skelton in his column in the LA Times.
00:05:24.728 --> 00:05:27.810
These things are really complicated.
00:05:28.314 --> 00:05:37.423
You look at the ballot and there are some that are pretty simple but at least some of these things are really hard to understand.
00:05:37.495 --> 00:05:49.512
Proposition 41 deals with state revenues and Proposition 43 allows the legislature to raise local taxes.
00:05:49.536 --> 00:05:52.841
I think I have three question marks written by it.
00:05:53.334 --> 00:05:56.983
These things are really complicated.
00:05:56.985 --> 00:06:12.699
I used to cover the state legislature for the Associated Press and later for the LA Times and, we spent a lot of effort and a lot of time trying to understand these measures.
00:06:12.732 --> 00:06:23.100
And not only that, we had a marvelous boss who wouldn't permit us to send anything out unless it were absolutely clear and understandable.
00:06:23.168 --> 00:06:28.605
B-Bob, we couldn't even refer to a measure by its number in our office.
00:06:28.641 --> 00:06:31.305
We couldn't say Proposition 43.
00:06:31.392 --> 00:06:37.449
He'd say what does it do?" We had to explain things, and we went to a lot of trouble to do that.
00:06:37.838 --> 00:06:44.944
So here's the citizen, the voter, having to go through the same process if they do it.
00:06:45.644 --> 00:06:49.762
I think it's too much to ask and I still don't understand why we're doing it.
00:06:49.762 --> 00:06:54.252
Is-- we're doing it, we're doing it because the legislature won't act?
00:06:55.298 --> 00:06:56.074
Wait a minute.
00:06:56.110 --> 00:07:14.182
I wanna butt in here because, I had long been a supporter of the initiative process, but let's go back to what the initiative process was supposed to do as part of the reform movement in the early 20th century.
00:07:14.992 --> 00:07:41.701
I l- I defended it because it seemed to me, since special interests had such control over Sacramento, over the policy process, over the legislature, that the initiative could give citizens at least a little push into the ability to reach the legislature, to have some kind of a say policymaking.
00:07:42.771 --> 00:07:44.192
that's not the case anymore.
00:07:44.983 --> 00:07:48.557
As I explained, there are certain things the legislature will never pass.
00:07:48.913 --> 00:07:52.603
Term limits would be one, political reform was another.
00:07:53.033 --> 00:07:54.266
A- and Prop 13
00:07:55.502 --> 00:08:04.074
remember Prop 1A of 1966, which created the modern California legislature.
00:08:04.863 --> 00:08:05.833
That passed,
00:08:06.528 --> 00:08:07.516
Yes, but p-
00:08:08.887 --> 00:08:10.627
It was a different political world.
00:08:10.952 --> 00:08:18.504
There was a much stronger both in terms of the governor's office and in terms of the legislature.
00:08:20.235 --> 00:08:33.025
interestingly, now that you mention it, all these reforms originally included reforms that for the judicial branch, and basically the, the judicial branch said, no.
00:08:33.172 --> 00:08:39.768
No." took it out of the legislative qualified initiative.
00:08:40.131 --> 00:08:41.047
That was a big one.
00:08:41.238 --> 00:08:49.759
It used to be, that every once in a while the legislature did do something that it should do.
00:08:50.549 --> 00:08:52.807
There's a whole lot more, I think, involved.
00:08:52.908 --> 00:08:58.783
I've learned never to say never in politics, and I think the same is true in policy.
00:08:59.168 --> 00:08:59.918
And in life.
00:09:00.010 --> 00:09:00.620
So
00:09:01.168 --> 00:09:03.491
Bob, tell, let's get down to specifics.
00:09:03.837 --> 00:09:04.956
Let's talk about
00:09:05.014 --> 00:09:05.971
answer your question.
00:09:06.178 --> 00:09:06.744
a minute.
00:09:07.037 --> 00:09:07.578
Yeah.
00:09:08.775 --> 00:09:09.500
Go ahead, Bob
00:09:09.948 --> 00:09:23.034
I want you guys to name an initiative that's passed where a majority of the voters said,"Whoops, we made a big mistake," the day after the election, and I can't think of very many where the voters were fooled into passing something.
00:09:24.062 --> 00:09:35.875
they're often fooled into turning them down, but I can't find an initiative that's passed where the voters said the next day,"We made a mistake." Now, I can see after several years where they said they make a mistake.
00:09:35.881 --> 00:09:37.570
For example, gay marriage.
00:09:37.572 --> 00:09:40.495
The voters in 2000 voted to ban gay marriage.
00:09:40.835 --> 00:09:44.770
The day after the election, I'll bet a majority of the voters were against gay marriage.
00:09:45.049 --> 00:09:52.714
But a couple years ago, the voters said,"No, we want gay marriage," and they voted for gay marriage, and I'll bet the day after the election they said they, that they wanted that.
00:09:52.836 --> 00:09:58.899
So sometimes voters will ch- change their minds, but I don't think they're very often fooled into passing these things.
00:09:58.980 --> 00:10:00.273
What about Proposition E?
00:10:01.046 --> 00:10:07.629
if you ask the voters today,"Should we repeal the initiative process?" I think you'd maybe get 25% of saying yes
00:10:08.198 --> 00:10:09.756
What about Proposition thir--
00:10:09.873 --> 00:10:10.155
That's what
00:10:10.208 --> 00:10:16.596
about Proposition 13, which certainly had some impact on state government?
00:10:18.022 --> 00:10:20.288
1978, it was,
00:10:20.330 --> 00:10:20.456
you-
00:10:20.653 --> 00:10:23.203
was a it was a tax limit
00:10:24.033 --> 00:10:24.457
Property
00:10:24.601 --> 00:10:25.878
property tax.
00:10:26.192 --> 00:10:28.241
Property taxes were too high.
00:10:28.301 --> 00:10:29.620
The voters rebelled.
00:10:29.899 --> 00:10:33.226
Under the leadership of the late great Howard Jarvis.
00:10:33.499 --> 00:10:38.693
They passed Proposition 13, which eliminated this injustice.
00:10:39.174 --> 00:10:42.874
Later on, as the voters soon found out it did more harm than good.
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:44.388
What about that?
00:10:44.447 --> 00:10:50.514
I don't even think today the voters would repeal Prop 13, but the day after Pr- after Prop 13 was passed?
00:10:50.726 --> 00:10:52.937
Look, I voted against Prop 13.
00:10:52.942 --> 00:10:54.921
You probably voted against Prop 13.
00:10:55.077 --> 00:11:11.808
It was a terrible proposition, but the voters wanted it because the legislature didn't do anything about it, and so the voters said, we're gonna do something about it." I often disagree with the voters, but that doesn't mean that we don't live, in a democracy where the voters say,"Okay, this is what we want," and we should respect that
00:11:12.727 --> 00:11:29.159
Listen, and don't forget the legislature finally moved to do something about Prop 13, and they created Proposition A, which basically they prayed would then disqualify Prop 13.
00:11:30.011 --> 00:11:30.424
what?
00:11:30.711 --> 00:11:33.077
The voters knew what they wanted,
00:11:34.056 --> 00:11:34.842
That's my point.
00:11:35.065 --> 00:11:36.206
13 won.
00:11:36.542 --> 00:11:37.450
That's my point.
00:11:37.745 --> 00:11:42.145
We may disagree with the voters, but after all, it's a majority counts.
00:11:42.245 --> 00:11:43.785
Majority rules in this country
00:11:44.467 --> 00:11:53.850
Let's talk about a couple things that are actually on the ballot that the voters are gonna have to, whether they like it or not, are gonna have to vote on in a couple of weeks.
00:11:54.183 --> 00:12:07.090
One of them is, one of them is Proposition 39, which would require voters to present some sort of a ID before they vote, or they have to identify themselves.
00:12:07.865 --> 00:12:11.953
Bob, isn't that something that the legislature could decide?
00:12:11.966 --> 00:12:14.135
Why do the voters have to decide that?
00:12:14.539 --> 00:12:22.229
One reason is because it's a, Trump deal to increase the Republican vote, but that's something else.
00:12:22.322 --> 00:12:24.794
Why does this have to go before the voters?
00:12:25.471 --> 00:12:30.591
Because somebody circulated a ballot measure and s- enough signatures qualified it for the ballot.
00:12:30.793 --> 00:12:35.815
I'm against Prop 39, but the legislature is not gonna pass something dealing with this.
00:12:36.027 --> 00:12:41.022
If the legislature doesn't pass it, have a right to circulate a ballot initiative, put it on the ballot.
00:12:41.047 --> 00:12:51.214
It's probably gonna go down, but, the idea of Prop 39 is to increase voter confidence, and Prop 39 does not go as far as the Trump proposal at the national level.
00:12:51.625 --> 00:12:53.817
It basically only requires two things.
00:12:53.817 --> 00:13:06.427
It requires you to put your driver's license, four four digits of your driver's license on the back of the envelope if you mail in the ballot, and if you go in person, and only 20% of us go in person anymore to the polling place, you have to present an ID.
00:13:06.517 --> 00:13:10.484
Not a birth certificate, not a passport, but just any ID.
00:13:10.741 --> 00:13:13.326
So it's Trump lite as far as I'm concerned.
00:13:13.648 --> 00:13:15.263
But, Prop 39 is not
00:13:16.666 --> 00:13:18.605
God, I'm sorry, but it is political.
00:13:19.023 --> 00:13:20.008
Of course it's political.
00:13:20.147 --> 00:13:22.960
The Republicans are in support of it, the Democrats are against it
00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:33.309
And don't forget that California right now has a pretty decent method of voter ID, probably one of the best in the country
00:13:33.596 --> 00:13:35.336
There's no voter ID right now.
00:13:35.422 --> 00:13:35.763
What do you...
00:13:35.765 --> 00:13:36.447
I don't know what you mean.
00:13:37.450 --> 00:13:38.289
You, all you have to do
00:13:38.490 --> 00:13:41.631
They go through what needs to go through
00:13:41.869 --> 00:13:43.394
No, but when you go to the polling place,
00:13:43.539 --> 00:13:44.100
that I get.
00:13:44.110 --> 00:13:44.553
Yeah.
00:13:44.792 --> 00:13:44.943
No.
00:13:44.945 --> 00:13:45.178
Yeah
00:13:45.461 --> 00:13:47.576
when you go to the polling place, you just have to give your name
00:13:49.412 --> 00:13:49.982
Yeah
00:13:49.982 --> 00:13:51.386
There is no voter ID, really.
00:13:51.490 --> 00:13:56.663
California has a very good voting system, a very, ver- it's excellent but there is no voter ID
00:13:57.408 --> 00:13:59.557
What about this Proposition 40?
00:13:59.561 --> 00:14:01.438
That seems pretty straightforward.
00:14:01.868 --> 00:14:05.153
It would levy a big tax on billionaires.
00:14:05.914 --> 00:14:09.621
S- hit the fat cats where they live, in their pocketbooks.
00:14:10.761 --> 00:14:16.779
Isn't that a kind of a decision that the legislature rather than the voters ought to decide?
00:14:17.813 --> 00:14:20.455
Sure, but you do you expect the legislature to decide it?
00:14:20.710 --> 00:14:27.200
The legislature's had all sorts of tax bills, and oftentimes it takes a two-thirds vote of the legislature to increase taxes.
00:14:27.541 --> 00:14:30.216
W- we- you can't get two-thirds of the public to agree on this.
00:14:30.413 --> 00:14:31.413
It's a majority vote.
00:14:31.687 --> 00:14:34.326
The, the billionaires tax is actually fairly simple.
00:14:34.326 --> 00:14:36.441
Do you wanna tax billionaires' wealth?
00:14:37.184 --> 00:14:40.698
A- and we have 250 of them in California right now.
00:14:40.957 --> 00:14:45.535
We have Sergey Brin, who has$265 billion in assets.
00:14:46.014 --> 00:14:47.854
I don't know what even a billion dollars is.
00:14:47.854 --> 00:14:49.519
He has 265 of them.
00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:58.226
But the argument against it is the fact that the billionaires will leave the state, take their companies with them, and the state will actually lose revenue.
00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:00.230
And Governor Newsom's against it.
00:15:00.518 --> 00:15:02.037
Xavier Becerra's against it.
00:15:02.312 --> 00:15:07.022
Katie Porter, the liberal congress- former co- liberal congresswoman from Orange County is against it.
00:15:07.205 --> 00:15:08.565
Steve Hilton is against it.
00:15:08.818 --> 00:15:10.903
California Teachers Association are against it.
00:15:11.129 --> 00:15:13.009
So there's a lot, there's a really interesting..
00:15:13.308 --> 00:15:15.732
For it is the California Democratic Party is for it.
00:15:16.006 --> 00:15:17.322
Bernie Sanders is for it.
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The congressman from the Silicon Valley who represents all these Silicon Valley companies, Ro Khanna, is for it.
00:15:22.923 --> 00:15:26.525
And the, the polls show basically it's gonna be close.
00:15:26.532 --> 00:15:31.263
It's 46% in favor, 43% against, 11% undecided.
00:15:31.476 --> 00:15:41.147
Now, it's likely to go down because when you have lots of money spent against a proposition, and lots of money is being spent against this proposition, 90% of the time it's defeated
00:15:42.864 --> 00:15:50.557
the 40 is one, one of only two initiatives that I haven't what to do about.
00:15:50.586 --> 00:16:08.049
Part of me says it's only a temporary fix under any circumstance, and we're gonna be caught some point, and there will be a significant dip in the amount of tax revenue available, particularly obviously from billionaires.
00:16:08.333 --> 00:16:13.138
And then part of me says,"But we've got to do something now." So what do I do?
00:16:13.138 --> 00:16:18.293
The question is it's gonna bring in$100 billion is the estimate over a five-year period.
00:16:18.914 --> 00:16:22.383
And it's a one-time tax, we've said one-time taxes before.
00:16:22.533 --> 00:16:29.028
There's another proposition on the ballot, by the way, Proposition 3, which makes permanent a tax that was supposed to be temporary.
00:16:29.253 --> 00:16:31.087
So you never know whether these are permanent or not.
00:16:31.315 --> 00:16:36.172
But the billionaires are very much against it, and they're putting in hundreds of millions of dollars against this.
00:16:37.265 --> 00:16:45.207
And as I say, l- it's very likely when money is spent against something, it probably goes down because when voters get confused, they vote no
00:16:46.172 --> 00:16:46.748
Exactly.
00:16:46.750 --> 00:16:55.836
And there have been studies that indicate that for at least most initiatives, there's a built-in 20% no vote for that very reason.
00:16:56.326 --> 00:16:56.511
If
00:16:56.535 --> 00:16:56.904
Cool
00:16:57.638 --> 00:16:59.953
they don't understand it, no
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only one third of initiatives pass, by the way.
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Just so just because you get something on the ballot doesn't mean that it's going to pass.
00:17:07.511 --> 00:17:12.606
But I don't see nothing wrong, Bill, with us debating this, whether or not billionaires should be taxed.
00:17:12.973 --> 00:17:15.625
We wouldn't be debating this without the proposition on the ballot.
00:17:15.696 --> 00:17:18.798
We'd be debating voter ID without this proposition on the ballot.
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:27.171
I like the idea of more discussion and more debates among voters on these issues as opposed to leaving it to the leg- can you imagine leaving it to Congress?
00:17:27.176 --> 00:17:28.491
Congress is do nothing.
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I am supporting, by the way, a national initiative.
00:17:31.921 --> 00:17:33.758
I think we should have it at the federal level.
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We would have term limits for judges.
00:17:35.989 --> 00:17:40.795
We would prohibit legislators congressmen, and the president from engaging in stock trades.
00:17:41.005 --> 00:17:42.459
We'd have all sorts of things.
00:17:42.663 --> 00:17:46.921
This is a do-nothing Congress, and I think we need to have a national initiative as well
00:17:48.234 --> 00:17:53.176
I don't see how we can, and but that would take another 14 hours for us to get into.
00:17:53.506 --> 00:17:57.260
I want to ask you, what do you think about the indirect initiative?
00:17:57.555 --> 00:18:07.153
When an initiative goes first the legislature, and hearings are held, and it is either approved or it is not approved.
00:18:07.544 --> 00:18:10.578
If it's approved, it goes into the code.
00:18:10.926 --> 00:18:16.810
If it's not approved, it then go- can go out to the ballot box
00:18:17.511 --> 00:18:21.201
Yeah, we we've been pushing that for years, and the legislature,
00:18:21.281 --> 00:18:21.641
one.
00:18:21.653 --> 00:18:21.827
We
00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:23.346
the, we'd have it
00:18:23.425 --> 00:18:26.042
1966 legislative reform.
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And we have it
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took the indirect initiative out
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Sherry, we have it now.
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In fact, Prop 43 is an example of that, where Howard Jarvis qualified an initiative, it went to the legislature, then the legislature said,"If we pass a bill, drop your initiative?" And Howard Jarvis said yes, and that's Prop 43, is the legislative measure instead of Prop,
00:18:49.048 --> 00:18:50.113
Now it's not doing it.
00:18:50.173 --> 00:18:51.222
They say- Yeah
00:18:51.333 --> 00:18:51.685
have
00:18:51.688 --> 00:18:52.019
nothing
00:18:52.247 --> 00:18:52.970
initiative now.
00:18:53.256 --> 00:18:54.173
the same thing.
00:18:54.343 --> 00:18:54.801
That's not
00:18:54.922 --> 00:19:00.964
Ca- Sherry, we've had examples where the initiative proponents have gone to the legislature's passed the bill, and they've withdrawn their initiative.
00:19:01.132 --> 00:19:02.410
That's a fairly new reform.
00:19:02.423 --> 00:19:03.523
It's about six years old
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It isn't.
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It used to be.
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They used to be part of our code until the Prop 1A of 1966 was passed
00:19:15.737 --> 00:19:21.184
And Daryl Steinberg pushed through a thing about six or eight years ago for the indirect initiative w- to come back.
00:19:21.195 --> 00:19:22.557
It's back into effect now
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You know, there's one measure on that's going to affect everybody.
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Not everybody, but it's going to affect many homeowners and property owners.
00:19:31.834 --> 00:19:38.528
And that's the effort to modify the California Environmental Quality Act, CEQA.
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It's on the ballot right now as
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35
00:19:42.746 --> 00:19:44.066
Prop 35.
00:19:44.558 --> 00:19:45.443
45
00:19:45.914 --> 00:19:48.063
It's on the ballot as Prop 45.
00:19:48.467 --> 00:19:51.624
Now, that's one that is counter to my argument.
00:19:51.634 --> 00:19:55.538
It's it's really fairly simple and straightforward.
00:19:56.146 --> 00:20:00.092
It gets to a problem that a lot of people are worried about.
00:20:00.107 --> 00:20:07.006
In other words especially NIMBY people who are afraid of having their neighborhoods overrun by high-rises.
00:20:07.515 --> 00:20:07.758
It...
00:20:07.851 --> 00:20:10.770
So that seems to be a good idea to have it for...
00:20:11.146 --> 00:20:15.494
Even though it's counter to my argument, it seems to be a good idea to have that on the ballot
00:20:16.314 --> 00:20:26.429
What Prop 45 does is it's sponsored by the developers who wanna have development, and they wanna have it go through much faster in a shorter time period than we have now.
00:20:26.429 --> 00:20:31.880
Environmental groups are very much against Prop 45, and there's a lot of campaigning against it.
00:20:31.883 --> 00:20:35.897
Even the carpenters, apparently, the, some of the construction workers are against it.
00:20:36.157 --> 00:20:37.787
So they're very concerned about that.
00:20:38.096 --> 00:20:44.808
This is a, th- this deals with CEQA, the California Environmental Quality Act, which was passed under Ronald Reagan when he was governor
00:20:45.125 --> 00:20:45.519
This thing is,
00:20:45.761 --> 00:20:47.523
In 19- in 19 70.
00:20:47.911 --> 00:20:59.267
And what we're seeing is developers trying to see if we can speed up the process for approving lots of development, and there's a lot of arguments against it, and particularly the environmental groups are against it
00:21:00.336 --> 00:21:16.575
That's the other initiative that I haven't really decided where I stand because, part of me says we've got to do something to create housing and affordable housing, although I don't think the terminology affordable housing is mandated in this.
00:21:16.903 --> 00:21:28.744
But I also think that there are some environmental considerations that need to be analyzed, that need to be projected.
00:21:29.567 --> 00:21:30.144
do I do?
00:21:31.336 --> 00:21:34.862
Yeah, this is, I think this one is a tough one to look at is Prop 45.
00:21:35.223 --> 00:21:39.365
And I'm probably leaning against it just because there's so many environmental groups who are against it
00:21:41.875 --> 00:21:59.231
I'm just torn totally apart because I know how necessary up the timeframe for development is, how necessary it is to build housing, but I also know the problems that will occur with regard to our environment
00:21:59.905 --> 00:22:00.604
I find this one
00:22:00.981 --> 00:22:01.846
Okay, Bob
00:22:02.798 --> 00:22:10.603
Ronald Reagan and the legislature in 1970 passed CEQA reform, and there's been a lot of disputes since then about whether that...
00:22:10.617 --> 00:22:12.416
how it has affected development.
00:22:12.432 --> 00:22:16.993
And this measure, Prop 45, is designed to speed up the whole process.
00:22:17.247 --> 00:22:20.821
Now, what I find really fascinating is they've exempted the high-speed rail.
00:22:21.731 --> 00:22:25.548
have they exempted the high-speed rail from a, a measure to speed up the process?
00:22:25.549 --> 00:22:30.181
Because a lot of farmers are using CEQA to challenge the high-speed rail.
00:22:30.492 --> 00:22:33.984
So to me, that was really interesting that they would do that.
00:22:34.954 --> 00:22:37.632
What does it mean to data centers?
00:22:38.394 --> 00:22:43.173
Are data centers part of that speeded up timeframe or not?
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:47.663
The proponents of Prop 45 say no, the data centers are not part of it.
00:22:47.664 --> 00:22:52.157
The opponents are saying they could be, and so that's a question that's gonna have to be decided, by the courts.
00:22:52.571 --> 00:23:04.061
But I think a lot of people are saying, we're not so sure we wanna speed things up if it affects the data centers, affects the high-speed networks, if it affects our properties." So it's gonna be an interesting result on this one.
00:23:04.068 --> 00:23:08.449
45 is one that I think that is everybody's vote's gonna really count on 45.
00:23:08.740 --> 00:23:11.142
It's not gonna go one way or the other in a big way.
00:23:11.608 --> 00:23:14.195
That doesn't make it any easier for me
00:23:15.361 --> 00:23:16.738
Your vote's gonna count, Sherry
00:23:17.768 --> 00:23:19.028
it's about time.
00:23:19.969 --> 00:23:21.816
And Prop 40, your vote's gonna count too.
00:23:21.891 --> 00:23:25.645
Unlike the statewide candidates, our vote really doesn't count.
00:23:25.671 --> 00:23:29.855
It's already been decided who's gonna win the governor's race and all the statewide races, right?
00:23:30.094 --> 00:23:36.432
We know the Democrats are gonna win, but these propositions are important because your vote really will count on some of these.
00:23:36.444 --> 00:23:42.031
They're gonna be close enough where a yes-no vote will make a difference, and that's why I'm glad we're discussing it
00:23:42.676 --> 00:23:44.974
bob, that was really a good insight.
00:23:45.708 --> 00:23:48.777
Thank you, and thanks for being on the show.
00:23:48.777 --> 00:23:50.609
And Sherry, we'll be talking.
00:23:51.329 --> 00:23:51.941
Bye-bye
00:23:52.743 --> 00:23:53.863
cheers everyone.
00:23:53.924 --> 00:23:54.653
Bye-bye.
00:23:55.271 --> 00:23:56.762
Thanks, Bobster
00:23:58.659 --> 00:24:00.555
Thanks again very much for inviting me.
00:24:00.652 --> 00:24:01.196
Appreciate it
00:24:01.503 --> 00:24:03.174
Yes, our pleasure
