How Do You Know When It’s Time to Leave? | G.K. Butterfield on Life After Congress

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Language: en
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I'm Garrett Francis. This is the
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Inheritance to Income podcast. We help
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families, founders, and leaders prepare
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people and systems, not just assets, for
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what comes next. I'm your legacy
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advocate. Let's talk about it. Today,
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it's my great pleasure and honor to
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welcome to Inheritance to Income GK
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Butterfield. I would throw his title in
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front of it, but there are so many
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titles that we'd have to keep going and
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going and going. So, we're going to jump
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into a conversation about what comes
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after success with GK Butterfield.
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Welcome to the show, GK.
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>> Thank you, Garrick. It's good to see you
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again and thank you for recording these
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podcasts and making them available to
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the world.
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>> Thank you.
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>> It's very important content.
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>> Thank you. Thank you. So, let me jump
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right into it. And so, I've been doing a
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series called What Comes After Success?
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Trying to identify um you know, what
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people are called to do, what people are
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doing after they've achieved certain
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milestone. And so the first question I
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would ask you is when did you first
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realize that you were a success?
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>> Oh my uh that's a very difficult
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question. Uh I grew up in a small all
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black community in Wilson, North
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Carolina. Uh my parents were icons in
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the community. Mom was a school teacher.
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Dad was was a dentist and a political
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civic leader in the community. And so I
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grew up in a in a in a home such as you
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did uh with community-minded parents.
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And so as a youngster, I was growing up
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during the 1960s and that was right in
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the middle of the civil rights movement.
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>> And we could see on television and other
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places the the movements that were
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taking place all across the deep south.
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And so I wanted to start the same
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movement in my hometown.
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>> And so I uh went to my parents and said,
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you know, I want to I want to do some
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civil rights demonstrations. We want to
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integrate the movie theaters and and
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other things in in in the town.
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>> How old were you at that time?
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>> I was uh 16. I was 16. Uh my high school
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principal uh discouraged me from doing
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it. Uh said that it was not a good thing
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for a student to be doing and I said,
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"Well, look, the college students are
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doing it in Raleigh and Durham and
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Greensboro. Why not high school students
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in Wilson?" And it was discouraged by my
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high school principal, but my parents
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encouraged it.
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>> My dad was a president of the local
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branch of the NAACP
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and uh had been very involved in in some
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other efforts back in the 1950s. He was
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elected to the city council in a very
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unusual election which we may go into
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later. Uh but but I uh realized right
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then that I wanted to uh to be involved
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in in civic life and public life and
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indeed in in political life.
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>> I will tell you this in 1953
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uh my dad and my pastor his name was
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Tamage Watkins who was from Raleigh. Uh
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he um my pastor and my father had a
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massive voter registration drive in the
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African-American community. The town was
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divided into six wards. We call them
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districts now. Uh and ward three was uh
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was the ward that could possibly elect
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an African-American to the city council.
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But very few African-Americans were
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registered to vote. A lot of whites were
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registered to vote, but not
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African-Americans. And so dad and and
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the pastor had a very intense voter
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registration drive and it worked. uh
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they taught citizens how to how to
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register, what the the uh literacy test
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was all about and and the questions that
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would likely be asked when they printed
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presented themselves for registration.
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And so
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the the voter registration totals
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geomet escalated beyond imagination from
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just 15 or 20 to several hundred
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African-American registered voters. And
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so on election day, my dad ran for the
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city council from Ward Three. And it was
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a tie vote.
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>> 382 to 382.
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>> Wow.
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>> And as a result of the tie, they had to
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blindfold a little white girl and she
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reached into a hat and pulled out a name
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and it was my father. Well, he served on
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the city council for two years, which
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was what I call an Obama moment.
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>> In 1955, it was time for reelection and
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dad ran for reelection. No one thought
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that he would win, but he put together a
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very interesting coalition. Uh, and he
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won and served from 1955 to 1957. Well,
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why do I tell you all of this? I tell
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you all of this because in 1957, they
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changed the rules.
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>> Sounds familiar.
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>> From district elections
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to at large elections.
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>> Wow.
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>> So, not only did my father have to run
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in war three,
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>> he had to run citywide. Mhm.
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>> And as a result of the change in
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election laws, he was defeated.
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>> Mhm.
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>> Uh and he was pretty uh pretty pissed
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off about that,
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>> but he kept his composure.
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>> 1959, he refused to run again. 1961,
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my pastor ran
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>> and he had to uh to run citywide.
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>> Uh there was also a provision in the law
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that said that that voters could not
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vote for less than a full slate,
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>> which prevented the African-American
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community from singleshot voting.
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concentrating their vote. And so the
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result of that, Reverend Watkins, the uh
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the pastor lost and uh the NAACP sued
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the city. Case went to the US Supreme
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Court.
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>> Wow.
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>> In Watkins versus City of Wilson. Uh
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they lost the case. But because of the
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case, because of my father's experience,
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I developed an interest in politics and
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law.
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>> And by this time, I am 14 years of age.
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Uh 1961 was when the decision came down.
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And so 1962 is when Toby Fitch and I,
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you know Toby, when Toby Fitch and I
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launched a massive protest in in
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downtown Wilson, uh trying to integrate
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the movie theaters and the drive-in
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restaurants and and all of the other
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stuff. And so all of that to say that is
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when I I made up my mind I wanted to be
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a lawyer and possibly go into politics.
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And so as the years went on, went to law
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school, well undergraduate first at
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North Carolina Central, then law school
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at at NCCU, graduated law school, and
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Toby Fitch and I returned to our home
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community and opened a practice of law.
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Uh, a lot of people in Wilson and other
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places think that Toby and I made a lot
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of money
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>> practicing law. Uh, such was not the
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case.
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>> That's right. We made a few dollars on
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personal injury cases and wrongful death
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cases in the state administration,
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>> but most of our legal services were were
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done pro bono.
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>> Uh if not pro bono, we would charge the
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client but never get paid. Right.
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>> Uh but that didn't make a difference.
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And so we we practiced law for some
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years. and after practicing law uh well
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during my practice of law that's when
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Congress uh improved the 1965 Voting
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Rights Act to to make it easier to win
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voting rights cases uh in in federal
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court. Previously you had to prove
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intentional discrimination
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>> in order to dismantle a discriminatory
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election system. Congress in 1982
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lowered the standard
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>> and said that you only need to prove
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discriminatory results.
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>> So, so
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some of those things that you're talking
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about, you had successes as a young
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person, you had successes as an
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attorney, but for some people out there,
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you've you've worked years and years and
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years and years, and you see some of
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your successes being turned back.
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They are being turned back for sure. Uh
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we had tremendous success in the 70s and
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80s with the Civil Rights Act, Voting
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Rights Act, Fair Housing Act of 1968.
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Tremendous progress. And it was not only
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Democratic administrations that were
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helpful. Uh a few of the Republican
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administrations were were helpful as
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well.
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>> I was looking at a picture yesterday of
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when George W. Bush uh signed the the uh
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19 uh 2005 update to the Voting Rights
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Act and I was right in the background.
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>> And so and so we are living through a
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period right now of retrogression.
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>> Uh we we're going backwards. Uh but I
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have faith that that's going to turn
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around. Uh this podcast is going to be
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viewed for years and years. But uh as of
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recording on this day uh right now in
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Raleigh, North Carolina, which is July
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of 2026, we're going through a very
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difficult period. Donald Trump is the
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president. We have an all Republican
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Congress. We have a very unfriendly uh
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US Supreme Court,
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>> state legislature,
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>> state legislature.
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Uh our governor is Democratic, right?
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>> You know, but right now we are going
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through some difficult times. And so I
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believe uh that with faith in God and
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and and and cohesion within the
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African-American community and the
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progressive community uh that we will
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get through this. Uh the November
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elections are going to be very uh very
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uh instructive. Uh there are predictions
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that Democrats will take back control of
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the House
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>> and possibly the Senate if that were to
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happen. That's going to be a significant
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uh check and balance against against the
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executive branch. Uh but I've always
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aspired for leadership and success. Uh
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after my uh law u pra law practice days
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uh because of the voting rights act, the
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North Carolina legislature created eight
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minority superior court districts. I ran
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for judge in 1988 and was elected.
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>> And I served as a judge for for 15 15
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long years. Two of those years, I might
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say, was on the state supreme court.
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>> Yeah. uh and uh after leaving the court
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system, I ran for Congress and because
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of the reputation, the good reputation
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that I had developed during my law
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practice uh during my years as a trial
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judge, as an appellet judge, uh because
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of the goodwill and the good reputation
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that I was able to to to to to get uh I
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was s I was elected to Congress
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overwhelmingly overwhelmingly very
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large. So, so some people would say,
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some people would ask you, you know, you
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were you were a very successful lawyer,
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very successful judge, and then you took
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the opportunity to run for Congress and
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those of us who've worked in that note
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to become what we call a back venture to
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to kind of start over again, someone who
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had achieved heights. And so when when
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we're thinking about success and you
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achieved a height of the state supreme
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court and and but then all of a sudden
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in Congress you go back to like like
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when we played football where you had to
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carry the cooler.
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>> Yeah. Well, let me let me set the record
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straight. Uh while a superior court
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judge for 12 years, Governor Easley uh
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appointed me to the state supreme court
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because there was a vacancy. Henry Fry
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had left the court and returned to
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Greensboro and the governor wanted me on
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the state supreme court and appointed me
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to the position but warned me that
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Democrats typically do not win statewide
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elections to the Supreme Court.
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>> But he warned me that if I accepted the
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the the appointment that in all
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likelihood uh there was a possibility
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that I could be defeated in the next
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election. And so I was appointed in 2000
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in 2001
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uh and uh served for nearly two years.
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And as the governor predicted, I was
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defeated. And the governor then
00:11:29.839 --> 00:11:32.150
reappointed me back to the superior
00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:34.550
court bench where I thought I would be
00:11:34.560 --> 00:11:36.389
for a lifetime at least until
00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.470
retirement. And then a congressional
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:40.389
opportunity came open.
00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:42.710
>> I looked at it and I had filed voting
00:11:42.720 --> 00:11:44.870
rights cases in all of these counties in
00:11:44.880 --> 00:11:47.350
eastern North Carolina. I developed
00:11:47.360 --> 00:11:49.829
hundreds if not thousands of friendships
00:11:49.839 --> 00:11:52.230
and relationships all across the
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:55.269
district and it just made sense for for
00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.910
me to offer myself for the congressional
00:11:57.920 --> 00:11:58.630
seat.
00:11:58.640 --> 00:12:00.949
>> Uh had a good reputation
00:12:00.959 --> 00:12:03.430
uh and uh I thought the time was right.
00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.870
I was 48 No, I was 57 years old at the
00:12:06.880 --> 00:12:07.990
time.
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.389
>> I think I'm right about that. I was 57
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:11.990
years old at the time. I was born in
00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:13.990
1947 and this was
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:14.949
>> 04.
00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.430
>> This was 04. So yeah, that sounds about
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:17.990
right.
00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.949
>> And so I ran for Congress and u
00:12:20.959 --> 00:12:22.870
>> we have a lot of details there and I
00:12:22.880 --> 00:12:24.470
know we have a short podcast here, but
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.030
but the short version is that my
00:12:27.040 --> 00:12:29.350
predecessor in Congress resigned
00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:30.949
>> and so the governor had to call a
00:12:30.959 --> 00:12:33.910
special election to fill out the balance
00:12:33.920 --> 00:12:36.629
of his term and there had to be a
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.069
regular election for the next two years.
00:12:40.079 --> 00:12:42.949
And so I offered myself in both of those
00:12:42.959 --> 00:12:46.550
and received a huge overwhelming vote.
00:12:46.560 --> 00:12:49.670
>> Was elected on July 20th, 2004.
00:12:49.680 --> 00:12:51.990
>> Took office the very next day.
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:53.910
>> And I think that's when you and I really
00:12:53.920 --> 00:12:55.910
became good friends in Washington. You
00:12:55.920 --> 00:12:58.230
were in DC doing the Lord's work. We
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:00.949
won't talk about that on on the podcast,
00:13:00.959 --> 00:13:02.790
but you were doing great great work in
00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:04.230
Washington DC and
00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.550
>> served in Congress for 18 years. Some of
00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:10.550
the best years of my life. Uh it was a
00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:12.150
tremendous honor. Uh
00:13:12.160 --> 00:13:13.990
>> how did you how did you you stepped into
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.829
that role as you mentioned your
00:13:15.839 --> 00:13:18.550
predecessor had resigned and so in some
00:13:18.560 --> 00:13:20.710
senses when we talk about legacy and
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.629
what you inherited you know you
00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:26.069
inherited um some staff you inherited
00:13:26.079 --> 00:13:28.550
some positions you inh you were kind of
00:13:28.560 --> 00:13:30.790
coming in in the middle of something. So
00:13:30.800 --> 00:13:32.710
how did you make it your own? How did
00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:34.310
you establish yourself?
00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:35.829
>> Thank you for asking that. That's that's
00:13:35.839 --> 00:13:37.910
a very relevant question. First of all,
00:13:37.920 --> 00:13:41.590
as a judge, as a trial judge, the only
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.190
thing I had was an administrative
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.150
assistant. I didn't have any any law
00:13:46.160 --> 00:13:47.670
clerks.
00:13:47.680 --> 00:13:49.990
>> Really didn't have a budget. Had a
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:51.670
travel budget, but really didn't have a
00:13:51.680 --> 00:13:54.470
budget. And so, as a trial judge, when I
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:56.310
would go to the different courouses in
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.389
the state and preside over the court, I
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.550
had to depend on the lawyers
00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:02.629
>> uh to give me briefs and information and
00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:05.189
to do my research. When I went to the
00:14:05.199 --> 00:14:06.949
Supreme Court, it was a little bit
00:14:06.959 --> 00:14:09.829
different. I had two law clerks, one
00:14:09.839 --> 00:14:12.230
executive assistant who helped me, who
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:13.829
supported my work.
00:14:13.839 --> 00:14:18.310
>> When I went to Congress, I had 18 people
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.470
>> who served on my staff. And it was it
00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:22.069
was quite a relief because I could
00:14:22.079 --> 00:14:24.069
concentrate on my work
00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:26.069
>> and not on building an infrastructure
00:14:26.079 --> 00:14:29.030
and administering a staff. Had a chief
00:14:29.040 --> 00:14:31.509
of staff. I had a district director,
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.269
legislative director, legislative
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:33.670
assistants
00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:35.430
>> cuz all politics is local. So that's
00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:36.629
right. Care of the local people.
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:39.030
>> And so I landed in Washington and u and
00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:41.910
and it was a different experience. When
00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:44.389
you are a judge, you're tasked with the
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.030
responsibility many responsibilities.
00:14:47.040 --> 00:14:49.670
One is to make sure that that justice is
00:14:49.680 --> 00:14:51.030
blind
00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:54.310
>> in civil court and in criminal court. To
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.629
make sure that no one gets preferential
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.790
treatment because of who their lawyer
00:14:58.800 --> 00:15:01.269
might be, that they shouldn't get
00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:02.949
preferential treatment because of what
00:15:02.959 --> 00:15:05.269
family they came from or what community
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.590
they came from. And so having grown up
00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.030
in a segregated society, uh, a person
00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:13.670
who was active in civil rights, I worked
00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:16.470
overtime to make sure that the playing
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.949
field was level.
00:15:18.959 --> 00:15:20.949
>> You know, I don't care who came into my
00:15:20.959 --> 00:15:24.389
courtroom, they were sir, Mr. Miss, you
00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.870
know, I gave them titles, which was
00:15:26.880 --> 00:15:28.150
unheard of.
00:15:28.160 --> 00:15:29.910
>> You know, back when I was a kid, you
00:15:29.920 --> 00:15:31.750
know, if African-American came in court
00:15:31.760 --> 00:15:33.030
was, boy, come on down here.
00:15:33.040 --> 00:15:35.110
>> Boy, and no matter how old you were.
00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:36.949
>> That's right. and those stories
00:15:36.959 --> 00:15:39.110
transferred down to to their
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:40.230
descendants.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.870
>> But I worked to level the playing field.
00:15:42.880 --> 00:15:44.629
>> Also, I worked and we didn't have the
00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.069
internet back then.
00:15:46.079 --> 00:15:47.670
>> We didn't have the research tools that
00:15:47.680 --> 00:15:50.629
we have today. And so, I worked very
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:53.030
hard to make sure that I had the law
00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:53.990
right. Right.
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.550
>> And if I had to to recess a case,
00:15:56.560 --> 00:15:58.949
postpone it to another day, I would do
00:15:58.959 --> 00:16:01.430
my research. had a law library, but it
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:02.629
was down the hall
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:04.069
>> and I had to go in there and pull the
00:16:04.079 --> 00:16:05.990
books and look it up. Now you could just
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.990
put it in your in your laptop and and
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.230
get an answer in in seconds.
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.550
>> When I came to Congress,
00:16:12.560 --> 00:16:16.710
my role was different. My role was to be
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.790
an advocate,
00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:21.189
not a nonpartisan person,
00:16:21.199 --> 00:16:23.269
>> but to be an advocate for the people who
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:24.389
sent me to Washington.
00:16:24.399 --> 00:16:27.030
>> Right? I had 23 counties the first year
00:16:27.040 --> 00:16:29.189
I was congress first congressional
00:16:29.199 --> 00:16:32.550
district. I had 23 counties and the
00:16:32.560 --> 00:16:34.310
district was about half black and half
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:35.350
white.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:39.030
>> Uh African-Americans uh were my base.
00:16:39.040 --> 00:16:42.069
>> Faith the faith community was my base.
00:16:42.079 --> 00:16:43.910
Uh those who were connected to the court
00:16:43.920 --> 00:16:45.990
system who I previously worked with,
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.550
they were part of my va base. But I had
00:16:48.560 --> 00:16:50.470
to continue to remind myself, not only
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.749
do I represent them, but I represent the
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:55.990
other demographic that may not have
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:56.629
voted for me.
00:16:56.639 --> 00:16:58.470
>> Right. Right. Right.
00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:00.949
>> So, there's a constant tension
00:17:00.959 --> 00:17:03.509
>> about which master to serve.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.309
>> And and and and I I tried to serve both
00:17:06.319 --> 00:17:08.789
masters. I tried to find common ground,
00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:11.270
middle ground. But so often uh in a
00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:13.510
political partisan environment, you
00:17:13.520 --> 00:17:15.350
cannot find common ground
00:17:15.360 --> 00:17:17.189
>> because each side has their own views
00:17:17.199 --> 00:17:18.949
and they're uncompromising.
00:17:18.959 --> 00:17:21.590
>> And so I found myself in Congress being
00:17:21.600 --> 00:17:23.270
the chairman of the Congressional Black
00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:25.110
Caucus, not in the beginning, but as the
00:17:25.120 --> 00:17:26.309
years went on.
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.150
>> I was uh chief deputy whip with
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:29.990
Congressman Jim Clarin.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.190
>> Uh I uh did some extraordinary things in
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:36.230
2006 to to help Democrats take back the
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:39.350
House. And so Speaker Pelosi rewarded me
00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:41.510
with a very high level appointment
00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:44.390
>> to the committee on energy and commerce
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.830
>> which which has u uh jurisdiction over
00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:49.510
50% of the legislation that comes
00:17:49.520 --> 00:17:52.150
through Congress healthcare um
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:54.870
technology transportation energy
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.430
environment about consumer protection
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.190
about 50% of the legislation came
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:01.590
through that committee and here I am on
00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:03.510
probably the first or second most
00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:05.669
powerful committee in Congress and so I
00:18:05.679 --> 00:18:08.310
used all of these assignments, all of
00:18:08.320 --> 00:18:12.710
these things uh to to to
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.750
help my constituents to to to bring
00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:18.470
resources into the district to to help
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.710
pass legislation that would improve the
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.270
quality of life. And I participated in
00:18:23.280 --> 00:18:26.230
so many uh legislative debates. Don't
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.310
have time to go into all of them. I'll
00:18:28.320 --> 00:18:30.950
just lift up one. The Affordable Care
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:32.390
Act, Obamacare,
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:33.990
>> that came through my committee, right?
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.430
not only my committee but my
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:36.789
subcommittee, right?
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:40.230
>> And I spent enormous time uh trying to
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.590
to write Medicaid expansion.
00:18:43.600 --> 00:18:46.710
>> Uh and we we we incentivized the states
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:50.950
to to to expand the Medicaid program. We
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:53.190
said to the states, "Look guys, if you
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:56.710
expand Medicaid to include healthy
00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.909
adults who don't have children,
00:18:59.919 --> 00:19:02.950
>> if you would but but are low income, low
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:05.029
income, healthy adults without children,
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.310
if you would expand your Medicaid
00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:09.190
program, we'll pay 95% of the money."
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.630
And many of the southern states
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:12.470
particularly said, "No, we're not going
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:13.909
to do political reason."
00:19:13.919 --> 00:19:16.470
>> That's right. And then we said okay
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.630
after the first five years we will pay
00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.350
90% reimbursement and it will be
00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:22.310
permanent.
00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:24.150
>> You will never have to pay more than 10%
00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:26.150
of the health care for the expanded
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.710
population and states refused to do it.
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:30.070
And then I put a piece in the
00:19:30.080 --> 00:19:32.470
legislation uh that said if states
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.350
refuse to expand Medicaid there would be
00:19:35.360 --> 00:19:36.630
penalties.
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.470
>> Well unfortunately the US Supreme Court
00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:39.669
said I was wrong.
00:19:39.679 --> 00:19:42.070
>> They said you cannot penalize a state.
00:19:42.080 --> 00:19:44.789
You can incentivize the state, but you
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.310
cannot penalize the state.
00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:46.870
>> Interesting.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.549
>> And so that was uh
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:50.070
>> we don't raise our children that way.
00:19:50.080 --> 00:19:51.029
>> Yeah.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.510
>> So So JK, you mentioned where you said
00:19:53.520 --> 00:19:56.789
um your assignments. So h when when
00:19:56.799 --> 00:19:58.549
Speaker Pelosi and all these other
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:02.310
things and how throughout your life and
00:20:02.320 --> 00:20:05.029
career, how have you known what your
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:07.510
assignment is?
00:20:07.520 --> 00:20:09.590
>> Well, my assignment is to represent the
00:20:09.600 --> 00:20:12.150
people who elected me. Mhm.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.789
>> Now, remember, I didn't get 100% vote.
00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:17.909
So, there were probably 35% of my
00:20:17.919 --> 00:20:19.750
district that didn't elect me,
00:20:19.760 --> 00:20:22.470
>> but these were businesses. They were
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.950
low-income people, business people, uh,
00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:26.630
faith leaders, you know, who who didn't
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:27.669
vote for me.
00:20:27.679 --> 00:20:30.310
>> And so, I tried to the best uh extent I
00:20:30.320 --> 00:20:33.190
could to represent everyone. Uh, because
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:36.470
when you lift people out of poverty, it
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.230
helps everybody, black, white, and
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.710
brown. Uh, but at the end of the day, if
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:42.630
I had to choose, if I had to choose
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.789
size, and that happened more often than
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.029
I I would have liked, but if you have to
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.190
choose size, I'm going to choose the
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:51.830
demographic that helped elect me to the
00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:54.470
position. Uh, because poverty in North
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:57.350
Carolina is pretty pervasive, even in
00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:59.990
2026. A lot of people don't realize that
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.470
there are 12 counties in North Carolina
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.990
that have poverty rates at 20% or
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:09.110
greater. Hold it. that has lasted for
00:21:09.120 --> 00:21:11.990
more than 30 years.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.950
And 10 of those 12 counties were in my
00:21:14.960 --> 00:21:17.190
congressional district, including Pit
00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.870
County. People think of Greenville as an
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:20.710
affluent city, and Greenville isn't
00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:22.870
affluent city, but Pit County itself
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:25.270
>> is in poverty. Edgecom County, Halifax
00:21:25.280 --> 00:21:27.830
County, Berte County, you know, and so
00:21:27.840 --> 00:21:30.630
all of my work was designed to try to
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.909
lift people out of poverty, to empower
00:21:33.919 --> 00:21:37.270
families, uh, and to do things that will
00:21:37.280 --> 00:21:39.909
that will allow my constituents to
00:21:39.919 --> 00:21:42.230
realize the American dream.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:44.149
So I know one one of the things you
00:21:44.159 --> 00:21:45.830
mentioned earlier also you talked about
00:21:45.840 --> 00:21:47.750
when you went to Washington you had a
00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:49.830
staff and I have been I have been
00:21:49.840 --> 00:21:51.590
blessed and privileged to know a lot of
00:21:51.600 --> 00:21:53.750
people who came through your office and
00:21:53.760 --> 00:21:57.750
so as a as a as a mentor or as someone I
00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:59.909
talk a lot about inherit inheritance and
00:21:59.919 --> 00:22:01.750
what people inherit from the people who
00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:03.990
are around them. Yeah. So what was it
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:08.470
you were trying to empower or to to
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.830
leave or pour into your staff members
00:22:11.840 --> 00:22:13.750
that they would take with them beyond
00:22:13.760 --> 00:22:15.350
the office? Because I know so many of
00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:17.669
them have gone on and are engaged in
00:22:17.679 --> 00:22:20.230
successful impactful careers even today.
00:22:20.240 --> 00:22:22.549
So when you were when you had your
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.549
staff, what were you trying to pour into
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.190
them that that was was what part of they
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.669
were going to inherit from GK? Not only
00:22:29.679 --> 00:22:32.149
did my staff learn from me, but I
00:22:32.159 --> 00:22:33.830
learned from them.
00:22:33.840 --> 00:22:35.510
>> One thing that I've discovered over the
00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:37.270
years is that you need to learn
00:22:37.280 --> 00:22:39.590
something new every day.
00:22:39.600 --> 00:22:40.470
>> Every day.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:42.470
>> And now with technology, with the
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:43.830
internet, and with artificial
00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:45.750
intelligence and all of the other tools
00:22:45.760 --> 00:22:47.909
that we have at our disposal, a day
00:22:47.919 --> 00:22:50.789
shouldn't go by that we shouldn't
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.430
>> increase our knowledge base. And so
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:55.270
working with my staff and I had some
00:22:55.280 --> 00:22:57.430
brilliant brilliant staff members who
00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.430
work with me who are now doing great
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:02.070
great things in the world. Uh but but
00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:03.990
working with my staff was was a real
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.149
delight because I tell people all the
00:23:06.159 --> 00:23:07.510
time and I'm going to say it on this
00:23:07.520 --> 00:23:10.470
podcast. I know my strengths and I've
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.990
got many. I know my weaknesses and I
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.630
have many. And I want young people
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.750
particularly to to accept that and to to
00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:21.909
understand what I mean by that. You
00:23:21.919 --> 00:23:23.430
can't be good at everything.
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.789
>> That's right. That's right.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.630
>> And you have to take an an make an
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.789
assessment of your personality and your
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:29.669
gifts
00:23:29.679 --> 00:23:31.510
>> and decide what you're good at and what
00:23:31.520 --> 00:23:34.789
you're not good at. For example,
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.950
uh yesterday, last night, you and I were
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:39.110
scheduled to do a podcast.
00:23:39.120 --> 00:23:41.510
>> I knew that after working all day, and I
00:23:41.520 --> 00:23:43.590
do have a job,
00:23:43.600 --> 00:23:45.669
after uh spending some time with you and
00:23:45.679 --> 00:23:48.950
your family, uh that I was not at my
00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:49.830
best. Mhm.
00:23:49.840 --> 00:23:52.950
>> I knew that I could not do a podcast at
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.750
6:30 in the evening and be my best.
00:23:55.760 --> 00:23:57.990
>> And so I said to you, "Let's postpone
00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.909
this podcast to another day because I
00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:01.510
knew my weaknesses."
00:24:01.520 --> 00:24:03.430
>> That's just an example.
00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.870
>> Uh and so my staff
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.669
filled the blanks. They fill the the the
00:24:09.679 --> 00:24:12.470
empty spaces that I had. as
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.830
Congresswoman um uh Carolyn Cheeks
00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:18.149
Patrick Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick from
00:24:18.159 --> 00:24:21.350
Detroit told me my first day in Congress
00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:23.830
as a member of Congress there going to
00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:25.830
be a lot of things that you know a
00:24:25.840 --> 00:24:27.510
little about
00:24:27.520 --> 00:24:29.350
>> and very few things that you know a
00:24:29.360 --> 00:24:31.909
whole lot about. And you've got to
00:24:31.919 --> 00:24:33.190
decide now whether you want to
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.510
concentrate on four or five things and
00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:37.029
be good at it
00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.110
>> or whether you want to just have a
00:24:39.120 --> 00:24:40.710
little bit of knowledge on a hundred
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:42.950
things. And so that's why I tried to
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.510
concentrate my work on four or five
00:24:45.520 --> 00:24:47.430
areas of of legislation.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:48.070
>> Oh, that's great.
00:24:48.080 --> 00:24:49.750
>> Yeah. I was honored to serve in Congress
00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:50.549
18 years.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.710
>> You did a fabulous job. And again, you
00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:55.269
mentored not just your own staff, but I
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:58.070
know the staff of other CBC offices,
00:24:58.080 --> 00:24:59.830
those of us who were lobbyists, always
00:24:59.840 --> 00:25:02.549
had an open door for not just our, you
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.630
know, professional jobs, but for our
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:06.070
professional development. So, I really
00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:06.950
appreciate that.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.950
>> I don't care how good or how smart and
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:10.789
how well-connected a member of Congress
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.070
is. If you don't have a competent staff,
00:25:14.080 --> 00:25:17.590
>> Yeah. who can support your work and have
00:25:17.600 --> 00:25:20.630
relationships with other offices both on
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.950
the hill and off the hill, you will not
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:23.750
be successful.
00:25:23.760 --> 00:25:25.510
>> Yeah, that's true.
00:25:25.520 --> 00:25:27.510
>> So, you said also just a moments ago,
00:25:27.520 --> 00:25:29.350
you said, "I still have a job." We were
00:25:29.360 --> 00:25:31.590
talking a little bit earlier about um
00:25:31.600 --> 00:25:33.669
what stage you are in life, right? And
00:25:33.679 --> 00:25:36.149
so, you decided um
00:25:36.159 --> 00:25:38.870
>> you decided to to to step away from
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:39.590
Congress.
00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:41.909
>> Yes. But you decided to step into
00:25:41.919 --> 00:25:44.630
something else, not not do what I call I
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:45.990
don't like the word retirement because
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:48.310
it means withdraw. So you decided not to
00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:50.549
withdraw, which you could have done
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:52.789
>> a couple of times. You decided to step
00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:55.110
into something whole a new challenge.
00:25:55.120 --> 00:25:55.909
Why?
00:25:55.919 --> 00:25:57.830
>> Let's talk about that. News reporters
00:25:57.840 --> 00:25:59.590
ask me that all the time. People stop me
00:25:59.600 --> 00:26:01.110
on the street and ask me the very same
00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:02.789
question. And so I'm I'm very
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:04.630
comfortable in in answering your
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:06.950
question. First of all, I served in
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.750
Congress for 18 years.
00:26:09.760 --> 00:26:11.830
very fortunate assignments, very very
00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:14.310
successful congressional career. But the
00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.110
Republican legislature in North Carolina
00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:20.630
every four, six years would redraw my
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:23.110
district and it would become less
00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:26.230
Democratic and more Republican. And so
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:28.950
my district was approaching the level
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:32.470
that it was a tossup district,
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:35.590
>> possibly tilt Republican.
00:26:35.600 --> 00:26:37.990
My consultants told me that I could win
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.390
the seed. I could continue to serve, but
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.230
I would have to raise between four and
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.990
$6 million,
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:45.510
>> which I was not comfortable doing.
00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:47.510
Fundraising is not my thing,
00:26:47.520 --> 00:26:49.190
>> even though I did it because I had to do
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:49.830
it.
00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:50.789
>> I couldn't see myself.
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:52.310
>> And we talked about the counties in the
00:26:52.320 --> 00:26:53.750
district, and I know you like to do a
00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:55.430
lot of in district as opposed to out of
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.029
district, you know, fundraising. I
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:58.630
couldn't see myself raising $4 to6
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.350
million without being on the telephone
00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:04.230
>> eight hours a day, five days a week,
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:06.310
calling people that I do not know,
00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:06.789
>> you know, asking
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.390
>> and that when that becomes the job,
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:10.230
>> asking for money and that's not my
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:11.350
personality,
00:27:11.360 --> 00:27:12.870
>> there are some members that get get a
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:14.070
charge out of it.
00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:16.390
>> Uh they they they really enjoy
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:19.110
fundraising, not this, not not me.
00:27:19.120 --> 00:27:21.350
>> And so my consultant gave me the advice,
00:27:21.360 --> 00:27:23.350
you got to raise a lot of money. You're
00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:25.269
going to spend a lot of time on the road
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:27.110
knocking on doors and
00:27:27.120 --> 00:27:28.630
>> going to town hall meetings. You're
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:29.750
going to have to do a lot of TV
00:27:29.760 --> 00:27:31.029
interviews and a lot of radio
00:27:31.039 --> 00:27:32.390
interviews.
00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:35.669
>> Uh, and after all of that, you will have
00:27:35.679 --> 00:27:39.269
a 50% chance of winning.
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.350
>> And then I looked at the calendar and
00:27:41.360 --> 00:27:44.710
realized I was 75 years old.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.710
Realized that I had a beautiful wife at
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:48.630
home and three successful daughters who
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:50.710
were doing great things in the world and
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.110
and four grandsons. don't have time to
00:27:53.120 --> 00:27:54.950
get into each one of them, but four
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:57.909
grandsons who I absolutely adore. And so
00:27:57.919 --> 00:28:00.310
I just came to the conclusion that it
00:28:00.320 --> 00:28:02.149
was time to to move in a different
00:28:02.159 --> 00:28:03.190
direction.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.870
>> Uh I knew there were other people who
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.590
were aspiring for my seat, but never
00:28:07.600 --> 00:28:09.350
ever ever would any of them ever run
00:28:09.360 --> 00:28:11.510
against me. And I appreciate that. And
00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:13.430
so I made the announcement that I would
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:16.070
uh leave Congress, but I was determined
00:28:16.080 --> 00:28:18.310
not to go home and cross my legs and do
00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:20.870
nothing. I don't play golf.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:23.909
I mean, we can work on that still, but I
00:28:23.919 --> 00:28:24.710
don't I don't
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:26.950
>> I know Congressman Cloud to work on
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:27.190
that.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:29.590
>> I know. I know. I know. I know. And so,
00:28:29.600 --> 00:28:32.389
I needed to do something else. And so, I
00:28:32.399 --> 00:28:35.669
was approached by a a law firm in DC
00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:38.070
named Magguire Woods. And they told me
00:28:38.080 --> 00:28:41.669
that they have a consulting practice
00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:43.990
within the law firm called Magguire
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.710
Woods Consulting LLC and wanted to know
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:48.070
if I would be willing to have a
00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:50.070
conversation with them. I cleared it
00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:51.750
with the ethics committee in the house
00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:53.990
and it gave me the green light to do it.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:56.149
Uh met with Magguire Woods and realized
00:28:56.159 --> 00:28:58.310
that there were some synergies uh
00:28:58.320 --> 00:29:01.110
between the firm and and me. Uh one
00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:03.350
thing I like about lobbying consulting
00:29:03.360 --> 00:29:04.789
and I'm not crazy about the word
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.590
lobbying, but I've gotten used to it. Uh
00:29:07.600 --> 00:29:10.710
but one thing that uh lobbying reminds
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.430
me of is practicing law.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.630
>> You have clients,
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.950
>> right? You're you're an advocate on
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:17.750
their behalf.
00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:19.590
>> That's right. Even though even though
00:29:19.600 --> 00:29:21.510
you may not 100% agree,
00:29:21.520 --> 00:29:22.310
>> not all the time
00:29:22.320 --> 00:29:24.149
>> with with with where they want to go,
00:29:24.159 --> 00:29:24.870
>> right?
00:29:24.880 --> 00:29:26.870
>> It's not your opinion that matters. It's
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.269
what your client is paying you to do.
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:30.630
>> And one thing about the world of
00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:33.350
lobbying, their checks don't bounce. Uh
00:29:33.360 --> 00:29:35.430
most of them pay on time. They do.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.669
>> When you practice law, that is not that
00:29:37.679 --> 00:29:40.230
is not the case. And so I accepted the
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.789
role as senior advisor to uh to my
00:29:42.799 --> 00:29:44.710
consulting firm. I have nine clients.
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.630
nine uh basic clients, maybe one or two,
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.269
you know, on the fringe, but nine uh
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:54.549
core clients. And um and and I serve
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:56.310
them well, and they are very pleased. I
00:29:56.320 --> 00:29:58.149
think they're very pleased with with my
00:29:58.159 --> 00:30:01.350
service. And uh when Democrats take over
00:30:01.360 --> 00:30:04.789
the House on November, November the 3, I
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:06.710
think my client base is going to
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:07.669
increase.
00:30:07.679 --> 00:30:08.149
>> Be good.
00:30:08.159 --> 00:30:11.110
>> I'm not happy about having 20 clients,
00:30:11.120 --> 00:30:13.350
but ser can can serve more than nine.
00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:15.669
Hey, do what you want and pick and do
00:30:15.679 --> 00:30:17.990
the things. Do good where you choose to
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.190
do good. That's great.
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:20.630
>> The first two years I was in the
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:23.590
consulting practice, I believe that I
00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:25.830
was more valuable to the firm, more
00:30:25.840 --> 00:30:28.630
effective if I was in the office every
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:31.430
day sitting behind my desk with the
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:35.110
computers with the telephone and I have
00:30:35.120 --> 00:30:37.590
two and a half staff that report to me
00:30:37.600 --> 00:30:39.909
and some other research people who are
00:30:39.919 --> 00:30:41.909
further down the hall. I felt that
00:30:41.919 --> 00:30:44.389
coming into the office was important
00:30:44.399 --> 00:30:46.389
>> but uh the pandemic taught me that
00:30:46.399 --> 00:30:48.630
there's a different methodology. Uh you
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.710
can work remotely.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:53.269
>> So I'm spending half of my time remote,
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.909
the other half in the office because in
00:30:55.919 --> 00:30:58.149
Washington DC, which is where my office
00:30:58.159 --> 00:31:01.350
is, uh it takes 30 minutes to an hour to
00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:01.909
get to work.
00:31:01.919 --> 00:31:03.510
>> It does. I know it well.
00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:05.110
>> And that takes a lot out of you.
00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:07.750
>> Yeah. Yeah. In the evening, if you leave
00:31:07.760 --> 00:31:10.389
after 4:00, it takes another 45 minutes
00:31:10.399 --> 00:31:12.789
to an hour to get home. And so, let's
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:15.430
just say it takes 2 hours of commute
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:18.149
time. And that takes a lot off off the
00:31:18.159 --> 00:31:19.350
body.
00:31:19.360 --> 00:31:21.909
>> Not only that, you've got the the the
00:31:21.919 --> 00:31:24.149
cost of gasoline and all of the other
00:31:24.159 --> 00:31:26.950
things that affiliated with with with
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.350
commuting. And then when it's time for
00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:30.470
lunch,
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.470
>> you cannot get lunch in Washington DC,
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:33.990
as you well know,
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:36.230
>> for less than 20 and $25.
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:37.909
>> And that's doing it on the cheap. So
00:31:37.919 --> 00:31:40.230
what I hear you saying is as you you
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.630
find an avocation and when you have the
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.590
opportunity, find an avocation that that
00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:47.990
pays your bill and your soul and fits
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:48.950
your lifestyle.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:52.630
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh w
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:54.710
without question. You know, I subscribe
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:57.509
to the three Fs. I tell when I talk to
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.190
young people and I do it quite
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.750
frequently. Well, I used to more than I
00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:04.389
do now, but I talk about uh the three
00:32:04.399 --> 00:32:06.710
Fs. And I might want to leave you with
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.230
this. I don't know how long we've been
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.909
talking, but but I'm going to leave I'm
00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:11.509
going to leave you with this.
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:14.710
>> I subscribe to three Fs. Faith. If
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:16.870
you're going to be successful in your
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:19.750
careers, in your profession, and post
00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:23.590
career, going to have to be faithful to
00:32:23.600 --> 00:32:25.830
your faith. Got to go to church. You got
00:32:25.840 --> 00:32:28.070
to participate in religious activities.
00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:30.149
You've got to donate to the church of
00:32:30.159 --> 00:32:31.750
your choice and serve the God of your
00:32:31.760 --> 00:32:33.830
choice. But you've got to have faith.
00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:34.870
>> Right?
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.070
>> The next important thing is family.
00:32:38.080 --> 00:32:39.350
Those of you who are looking at this
00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:42.630
podcast, family. That's the most
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:46.630
important thing in your life is your
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.029
family. Other than your faith is your
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:52.549
family. Please spend time and love on
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:54.950
your family and support each other. And
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.470
the third thing is finance.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.630
>> Maybe at the next podcast that we we do,
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:03.110
we can talk about financial literacy and
00:33:03.120 --> 00:33:04.310
financial success.
00:33:04.320 --> 00:33:05.110
>> That's awesome.
00:33:05.120 --> 00:33:06.870
>> Because while finance is not as
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.590
important as family and faith, it is
00:33:09.600 --> 00:33:12.310
critically important. Live within your
00:33:12.320 --> 00:33:15.110
means. Live within a budget. Have some
00:33:15.120 --> 00:33:17.509
reserves. Have some retirement plans.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.149
You've got to have a financial plan.
00:33:20.159 --> 00:33:20.870
>> That's great.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:21.190
>> Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.950
>> So, my last question I have to ask this
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.590
is and hopefully we can get this in. Um,
00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:28.070
after everything you've done, uh, the
00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:30.470
civil rights leadership, the legal
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:33.110
leadership, the judgeships, the
00:33:33.120 --> 00:33:35.269
congress, the CBC,
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.590
meeting with world officials, what does
00:33:37.600 --> 00:33:41.909
GK Butterfield still feel called to do?
00:33:41.919 --> 00:33:45.830
I grew up being an advocate of being a
00:33:45.840 --> 00:33:49.029
civil rights protester uh exposing
00:33:49.039 --> 00:33:50.630
injustice.
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:52.630
Uh and it served me and it served my
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.830
community well. I could speak truth to
00:33:55.840 --> 00:33:59.430
power as a teenager.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:01.830
I I recall so well I led the civil
00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:04.070
rights demonstrations at at the movie
00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:05.990
theater in my hometown and Sunday
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.310
afternoon we'd have three or 400 uh
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:10.310
people behind me in line and I would
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:12.869
lead the march along with my friend Toby
00:34:12.879 --> 00:34:15.109
Fitch and we would walk up to the movie
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.270
theaters and the manager would have arms
00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:19.030
out saying you can't come in here and
00:34:19.040 --> 00:34:20.869
and the mob would be across the street
00:34:20.879 --> 00:34:22.389
and the police would have the street
00:34:22.399 --> 00:34:25.829
blocked off and and as a 16-year-old
00:34:25.839 --> 00:34:29.030
I would speak truth to power And I look
00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:31.909
back on that and and and and just marvel
00:34:31.919 --> 00:34:33.909
uh at the fact that a that a teenager
00:34:33.919 --> 00:34:36.389
could have this type of audacity. Barack
00:34:36.399 --> 00:34:38.710
Obama talked about the audacity of hope.
00:34:38.720 --> 00:34:41.109
Uh I talk about the audacity of protest,
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.990
>> right?
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.109
>> And so uh I have continued to to
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.109
maintain this uh uh this uh role in in
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.149
in my life, in my personal life. Uh, and
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:53.990
while I'm not marching up and down the
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:56.869
street and and confronting uh movie
00:34:56.879 --> 00:34:58.630
theater owners, I'm doing it in a
00:34:58.640 --> 00:34:59.349
different way.
00:34:59.359 --> 00:34:59.829
>> That's awesome.
00:34:59.839 --> 00:35:01.750
>> A lot of elected officials now, one of
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.190
the big secrets, and I don't talk about
00:35:03.200 --> 00:35:05.750
it often, but a lot of elected officials
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.870
both in Congress, in state legislatores,
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:11.750
and in on city councils, still calling
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.349
me for advice.
00:35:13.359 --> 00:35:15.829
>> And I give them advice uh that I think
00:35:15.839 --> 00:35:18.550
they appreciate. and and they they
00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:20.390
confide in me because they know I will
00:35:20.400 --> 00:35:22.950
keep it uh very confidential. Uh the
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:26.310
city of Wilson now has now undergone a
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:27.910
transformation
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.950
in the city council. I mentioned my dad
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.950
was city council for 53 and 57. Now they
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:36.310
have the first Latino
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.390
>> Yeah. on the city council
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.829
>> who is a very strong
00:35:41.839 --> 00:35:44.710
city council member who is intelligent,
00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:47.430
who is well grounded, and he is really
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:50.470
speaking truth to power. He's demanding
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.910
that the city confront racism and and
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:56.470
all of the other things that we are
00:35:56.480 --> 00:35:58.870
seeing from ICE and and the other uh
00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:01.030
deportations that are that are taking
00:36:01.040 --> 00:36:03.670
place. and he has bonded, I might say,
00:36:03.680 --> 00:36:05.750
with the three African-Americans on the
00:36:05.760 --> 00:36:08.230
city council. And the four of them
00:36:08.240 --> 00:36:08.870
>> coalitions
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:11.270
>> have now bonded with a white female on
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.349
the city council who is somewhat
00:36:13.359 --> 00:36:14.630
progressive.
00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:17.670
>> And so now you have five out of seven on
00:36:17.680 --> 00:36:20.230
the city council and from time to time,
00:36:20.240 --> 00:36:22.390
uh, I talk to those city council members
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:24.390
and they're making a difference. Well,
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:26.470
the the the folks in in public office
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:27.910
are not the only ones who call you for
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.310
advice. And I appreciate your always
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:31.109
being there,
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:33.990
>> Gary. I appreciate you. I appreciate
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:36.310
your wife and your children and your
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:37.109
late mother.
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:37.510
>> Yeah.
00:36:37.520 --> 00:36:39.589
>> Who was a blessing, who was a blessing
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:42.069
to education, to higher education, to
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:44.470
the Raleigh community, uh, and to your
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:45.910
other family members that I know so
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:47.430
well. Just thank you so much.
00:36:47.440 --> 00:36:49.750
>> Well, I want to thank GK for joining us.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:52.069
Um, as you can see, we could keep going.
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:53.430
So, I'm going to have to have him back
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:55.670
on the show and we could keep going and
00:36:55.680 --> 00:36:57.430
going and going because there's so much
00:36:57.440 --> 00:36:59.910
there. And, uh, I just a little tidbit
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.150
here in the coming months, look for look
00:37:02.160 --> 00:37:03.829
for some podcast or some more
00:37:03.839 --> 00:37:06.470
information from from GK Butterfield.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.630
Um, but again, uh, thank you for joining
00:37:08.640 --> 00:37:12.310
us on Inheritance to Income. Um, you see
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:14.150
that making a difference for your entire
00:37:14.160 --> 00:37:16.710
lifetime, using your skills, using your
00:37:16.720 --> 00:37:19.270
connections, using your mindset to make
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.230
change. For more than 60 years, GK
00:37:22.240 --> 00:37:25.270
Butterfill has been an advocate, whether
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.750
as a 16-year-old, as a judge, as a
00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:30.069
member of Congress, as a leader in the
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.710
community to make change. It's possible
00:37:32.720 --> 00:37:35.030
at whatever stage in life you are. So
00:37:35.040 --> 00:37:36.630
again, thank you for joining us on
00:37:36.640 --> 00:37:39.349
Inheritance to Income. I don't take it
00:37:39.359 --> 00:37:40.630
for granted.
00:37:40.640 --> 00:37:43.880
God bless.