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00:00:10.240Welcome to Impact Masters Podcast in collaboration with Africans Talking Retold Podcast, where every conversation sparks new insight.
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00:00:16.160Join us as we delve into the stories of extraordinary individuals who are shaping our world.
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00:00:24.800Movers and shakers in tech, policymakers, entrepreneurs, entertainers, and all those whose stories are worth telling.
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00:00:28.879Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and transformed.
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00:00:33.039Welcome and let's embark on this journey of discovery together.
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00:00:35.359Impactmasters podcast.
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00:00:53.679Here's your host, Michael Kamandi.
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00:01:08.879And uh there was a discussion on should we create a local tribunal to deal with the people who are in that envelope or should waki give a campo?
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00:01:14.719Somebody in the parliament, I can't remember who said we should not be vague.
00:01:15.040 -->
00:01:17.359Let us do let us go to the big.
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00:01:38.879And I think it must it could have been Ruto actually.
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00:01:42.400Who said let us not be vague?
00:01:42.480 -->
00:01:44.959And they were in there, yeah, yeah.
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00:01:46.319It's William Brutto.
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00:01:47.280Yes, William Ruto.
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00:01:49.120Yes, I think it yeah, I was correct.
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00:01:52.959Yes, William Rutto said let us not be let's go to the Hague.
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00:01:54.000Let us go to the Hague.
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00:01:57.200So, where am I uh making that reference?
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00:02:03.359In a company setting, nothing should be vague.
00:02:04.319 -->
00:02:12.639It should be very clear, Christ took clear what is required by who, when, how, when.
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00:02:13.599Alright?
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00:02:14.879So, what do I mean?
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00:02:15.439Yes.
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00:02:30.719For you to avoid all those scenarios you have talked about, you remember I said when you're starting a company, you need to ensure it's very clear on shareholding, yes, the do's and don'ts.
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00:02:31.039Yes.
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00:02:31.520Alright?
00:02:31.680 -->
00:02:31.919Yes.
00:02:32.080 -->
00:02:34.080How is management appointed?
00:02:34.479 -->
00:02:38.800If you need to exit the business, how does that look like?
00:02:39.120 -->
00:02:39.520All right?
00:02:39.919 -->
00:02:44.400If there are investors that want to bring you money, how does that look like?
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00:02:45.360Okay?
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00:02:46.479That's number one.
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00:02:46.879Yes.
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00:02:49.680Number two, regulator.
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00:03:00.479Regulation is very important because when you are regulated, regulator helps you have processes that are running.
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00:03:00.960Yes.
00:03:01.360 -->
00:03:01.759All right?
00:03:02.080 -->
00:03:07.599So that the regulator, like now, communication authority has ensured that we don't have to guess.
00:03:08.479 -->
00:03:10.080Standard operating procedures.
00:03:10.240 -->
00:03:10.719This is it.
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00:03:12.000This is what happens.
00:03:12.319 -->
00:03:17.599And when you follow the guidelines or even the companies act, when you follow the regulations, it is very clear.
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00:03:19.520In this instance, this is what happens.
00:03:19.599 -->
00:03:25.360If this happens, again, for example, today, if a president of this country is not there, the deputy takes over.
00:03:25.599 -->
00:03:28.960If the deputy is not there, the speaker of the National Assembly takes over.
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00:03:31.280If he's not there, you know, it goes on and on.
00:03:31.439 -->
00:03:33.199So you know Until another election is done.
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00:03:35.199So it you understand.
00:03:35.680 -->
00:03:36.960So it is very clear.
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00:03:40.000So I've talked about shareholder agreement.
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00:03:47.840Number two, regulatory compliance helps you navigate your risks, helps you get internal processes right.
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00:03:50.159That's number two.
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00:03:57.599Number three is understanding that you have employees, making it very clear.
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00:04:05.199I had mentioned having an employee handbook, having very clear employment contracts, how do you discipline each other?
00:04:05.360 -->
00:04:06.960How do you do ABCD?
00:04:07.120 -->
00:04:07.280Okay.
00:04:07.439 -->
00:04:07.840All right?
00:04:08.080 -->
00:04:21.199So when you have those things you know outlined, things like intellectual property, ensuring that the intellectual property that you're you've come up with, can you ensure that you've registered your IP?
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00:04:22.000All right?
00:04:22.480 -->
00:04:23.680Who owns your IP?
00:04:24.160 -->
00:04:25.839Where is the IP owned?
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00:04:36.160In when you're talking about uh tax regulations, when you're starting off, which is the best jurisdiction for us to set up in, all right?
00:04:36.480 -->
00:04:44.079So a lot of these things from the word go eliminates a lot of problems that we will go we you're going to face.
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00:04:46.240Because inevitably people are going to fight.
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00:04:47.040Absolutely, yeah.
00:04:47.360 -->
00:04:50.079Inevitably, you'll have to discipline employees.
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00:04:54.000So if you don't have a disciplinary procedure, how will you how will you do?
00:04:54.480 -->
00:04:57.759So it needs to be you have to have the end in mind, all right?
00:04:57.920 -->
00:05:00.399So as you are starting, you have an end in mind.
00:05:00.480 -->
00:05:04.399And again, I was still, I think my teachers gave me a lot of impact.
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00:05:07.680They told me something when I was in Kiroga municipality.
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00:05:07.920Yes.
00:05:08.079 -->
00:05:11.120If you fail to plan, you plan to fail.
00:05:12.560 -->
00:05:13.759It is what it is.
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00:05:14.800Primary school.
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00:05:16.560So you need to plan.
00:05:16.720 -->
00:05:16.959Yes.
00:05:17.199 -->
00:05:18.560Otherwise, you are planning to fail.
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00:05:18.800Yes.
00:05:18.879 -->
00:05:19.600And that's the same way.
00:05:19.839 -->
00:05:20.800Either way, you're planning.
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00:05:24.879The day you say you are starting a company, can you have your exit in mind?
00:05:25.040 -->
00:05:26.399How are you going to exit this company?
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00:05:30.000If this company you need to exit through an IPO, initial public offer.
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00:05:31.839They should come since day one.
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00:05:32.160Yes.
00:05:32.240 -->
00:05:32.959How do you do it?
00:05:33.199 -->
00:05:39.040If you are looking forward to getting into a mergers and an acquisition, if you are merging with another company, how does that happen?
00:05:39.360 -->
00:05:47.519If you are being acquired by another company, how does it how do you ensure that you, as a founder, you don't lose?
00:05:48.160 -->
00:05:57.360How do you ensure that if, for example, you are being bought out, how do you ensure that your interests are considered?
00:05:57.839 -->
00:06:03.360If you bring in investors and these investors start misbehaving, how do you deal with that?
00:06:03.839 -->
00:06:04.879So that needs to be.
00:06:05.120 -->
00:06:07.519But there's a lot of people are quick, oh, you see money?
00:06:07.839 -->
00:06:08.63910 million dollars.
00:06:08.720 -->
00:06:09.600Hey, where can do I sign?
00:06:09.680 -->
00:06:10.319Where do I sign?
00:06:10.560 -->
00:06:12.800But then you've signed out all your control.
00:06:13.680 -->
00:06:14.160Alright?
00:06:14.319 -->
00:06:16.639So the thing is to ensure counsel.
00:06:16.800 -->
00:06:22.959You need legal counsel to ensure that you maintain a lot of as much control as you can in an organization.
00:06:23.040 -->
00:06:26.319Because as a founder, you're not a lame duck.
00:06:26.879 -->
00:06:31.839Because you see, I told you, remember, you can you can have, in fact, you can you can you can own the entire company.
00:06:32.319 -->
00:06:33.519But who is on the board?
00:06:33.680 -->
00:06:35.600The board is go is what makes the decision.
00:06:35.680 -->
00:06:36.480So what does that mean?
00:06:36.720 -->
00:06:37.920You need to have people on the board.
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00:06:39.439That would be a lot of people.
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00:06:39.920Yes.
00:06:40.319 -->
00:06:44.319So you need to understand what strategy do I have in this company?
00:06:45.120 -->
00:06:47.439What is the company's strategy going forward?
00:06:47.759 -->
00:06:48.160All right?
00:06:48.399 -->
00:06:58.720So as you're selling your vision, as you're selling your strategy, you have it in mind that this is a long-term strategy, and this is what I'm going to do.
00:06:59.120 -->
00:07:07.759And even if I'm uh getting money from people, I'm not getting money in exchange of all my voting rights, everything.
00:07:08.000 -->
00:07:11.040You know, but also it's very it's a very difficult balance.
00:07:11.120 -->
00:07:36.319You see, when we talk about uh people like uh you know uh what do you we used to call them uh the Britainwoods, um uh the Bretton Woods people, you know those days, the the the the World Bank, IMF, those kind of bodies, when they are even coming to organizations, not organizations, not organizations, countries, they have more leverage.
00:07:37.439 -->
00:07:37.920All right?
00:07:38.240 -->
00:07:49.279So a lot of times, even when you bring investors or when you bring people to give you money, VCs or even individuals, yeah, and you are the one who needs the money, they have an upper hand.
00:07:49.920 -->
00:07:50.240Right?
00:07:50.879 -->
00:07:53.680So it's very easy to put in a very bad share.
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00:08:02.079Yes, so a lot of times you've you you you you you you are you are uh faced with a very bad shareholder agreement that is pro the investors.
00:08:02.319 -->
00:08:03.040The investors, yeah.
00:08:03.279 -->
00:08:04.240But because you don't know, you don't have to be able to.
00:08:04.399 -->
00:08:17.199But I've seen those cases in uh Africa where it's so unfortunate, but at the end of the day, you know, someone will argue even investors are in to make the money, yeah, are in to make sure that you know they are making the best returns.
00:08:18.079 -->
00:08:19.759And it's good you have brought these up.
00:08:20.000 -->
00:08:22.959How do we avoid such pitfalls going forward?
00:08:23.120 -->
00:08:30.319Because and another question I had for you is can Africa stocking be a classic use case in dealing with these things?
00:08:30.399 -->
00:08:42.000Because we have passed through those phases whereby yes, we need the money, we have found the investors, and and and you know, we have actually learned a few lessons around those uh scenarios.
00:08:42.240 -->
00:08:45.679I think the the most important question to ask is do you need the money?
00:08:45.840 -->
00:08:59.120All right, because I told you Africa is talking was making money, was profitable by the time we were raising, we were raising, and it is important to raise because you cannot you cannot then expand without that kind of money.
00:08:59.279 -->
00:09:04.320Yeah, but it is important to know are you taking good money or are you taking bad money?
00:09:04.480 -->
00:09:05.120Yeah, right?
00:09:05.440 -->
00:09:17.360Yeah and the duty is out there to understand because we we have seen in the ecosystem companies that have raised a lot of money and have shut down without understanding what happened.
00:09:17.759 -->
00:09:36.080So you need to understand it is not just about the money, it is about am I getting a partner who's going to accelerate my business, who's going to buy into the vision that I have and not come and bring their own vision, all right?
00:09:36.240 -->
00:09:46.799So that before, in fact, before you make the the money decision, you have to make the strategy decision of understanding yes, we have come to a conclusion that we need money to expand.
00:09:47.759 -->
00:09:49.440What options do we have?
00:09:49.679 -->
00:09:50.159All right?
00:09:50.399 -->
00:10:02.159So, for example, when when you're in a specific industry and you get an investor who is aligned into that industry, someone who understands the ins and outs.
00:10:02.639 -->
00:10:09.039For example, someone like you, MK, you understand the developer ecosystem inside out across Africa, the world.
00:10:09.759 -->
00:10:19.519So if you sit on the board of a company that speaks that deals with developers, you'd be able to give more insight and value.
00:10:19.679 -->
00:10:20.159And value.
00:10:20.320 -->
00:10:25.519And you understand deeply what are the needs of the developer ecosystem.
00:10:26.159 -->
00:10:29.120But now put Karoga in a developer ecosystem.
00:10:29.440 -->
00:10:30.159I may not know.
00:10:30.399 -->
00:10:33.600You legalize the developer ecosystem, which they don't really necessarily.
00:10:34.000 -->
00:10:37.120I hear you talking about all these places Kanagi, Melon, whatever, whatever.
00:10:37.200 -->
00:10:39.279You know, all the places you are you guys have gone.
00:10:40.000 -->
00:10:55.120And the reason why the developer team, even of Africa is talking, is is is is very reputed across Africa is because you sit with the developers, you understand what their need is.
00:10:55.679 -->
00:10:58.960Sometimes we might think this is it's like a child.
00:10:59.279 -->
00:11:03.039A child might think that uh candy is very good for them.
00:11:03.120 -->
00:11:06.159But you as a parent, you know it's not the best thing always.
00:11:06.320 -->
00:11:06.559Yes.
00:11:06.720 -->
00:11:08.799All right, but they they may not understand.
00:11:09.039 -->
00:11:16.960So as you as you're moving through the phases of raising capital, the most important thing is to understand are you getting genuine people?
00:11:17.600 -->
00:11:27.759People who are investors who actually bring value, not people who come and suck the value out of to replace with what they think is the value.
00:11:27.919 -->
00:11:30.879Yes, to replace because the people who come and actually wipe, erase everything.
00:11:31.039 -->
00:11:31.200Yes.
00:11:31.360 -->
00:11:35.600Like now, Africa is talking, we are centered on developers.
00:11:35.759 -->
00:11:37.840We we power developers across Africa.
00:11:38.159 -->
00:11:41.759We ensure that we empower software developers to build scalable solutions.
00:11:42.080 -->
00:11:43.039Build scalable solutions.
00:11:43.279 -->
00:11:43.759Absolutely.
00:11:43.919 -->
00:11:44.240All right?
00:11:44.320 -->
00:11:44.639Yes.
00:11:44.799 -->
00:11:54.799So if that is our core, and then we get someone maybe from uh whatever who has no clue, has never done this, has never done that, what do you expect?
00:11:55.279 -->
00:11:58.879They might come and change the yeah, you know, change the mission.
00:11:59.279 -->
00:12:00.639Change the mission and the dynamics.
00:12:01.120 -->
00:12:05.440So I think staying the course is very, very important.
00:12:05.600 -->
00:12:15.519And uh ensuring I think your question was how do we ensure that all these things, you know, we don't have and we mitigate from all the things that I have said.
00:12:15.679 -->
00:12:21.600And just to recap, is to ensure you have the right partners when you're starting the company.
00:12:22.320 -->
00:12:26.399It's very clear from day one that these are the things that we have agreed.
00:12:27.120 -->
00:12:29.120This is how decisions are going to be made.
00:12:29.519 -->
00:12:37.120Number three, you need to ensure that you have proper regulatory compliance that ensures you're not vague and you're not going to hag.
00:12:37.519 -->
00:12:42.399No, you are you are very clear on the processes that the regulator has set out.
00:12:42.879 -->
00:12:48.960Number four, you need to ensure that your intellectual property has been registered and is very clear who is it.
00:12:49.120 -->
00:12:57.679And then finally, uh when you when you when you when you're getting into you know employees, whatnot, you have a good uh landscape, you understand.
00:12:57.919 -->
00:13:10.639And then very finally is when you're bringing in partners, you understand number one, you understand that they are good partners, they understand your industry, and and that they it's not just about any money.
00:13:11.039 -->
00:13:14.480You know, they understand this industry and they are going to be your partners.
00:13:14.879 -->
00:13:17.440And then even that, you put it on the dot and line.
00:13:17.519 -->
00:13:17.600Yes.
00:13:19.519 -->
00:13:19.679Yes.
00:13:19.840 -->
00:13:22.399When you guys disagree, what do you do?
00:13:22.559 -->
00:13:23.200Yes, yes.
00:13:23.440 -->
00:13:24.080Very nice.
00:13:25.360 -->
00:13:33.360It's an invaluable knowledge that we have shared here, and I'm sure most startups, most especially in tech, can learn from you.
00:13:33.919 -->
00:13:46.879But uh, there's one aspect I thought if we do not share as we uh you know go towards the end of this uh podcast, is if I'm a young lawyer and I want to get into tech, I want to establish my foot into tech.
00:13:48.000 -->
00:13:50.480What do I need how do I need to prepare?
00:13:50.639 -->
00:13:57.360And given that I don't know if there is tech law nowadays, now that tech is taking over everything, they're saying tech is eating the world.
00:13:57.840 -->
00:14:00.399Before you used to say tech will eat the world.
00:14:00.480 -->
00:14:00.720Yes.
00:14:00.879 -->
00:14:03.200Now tech is eating the world.
00:14:03.679 -->
00:14:04.879How do I prepare?
00:14:04.960 -->
00:14:09.679Uh, if that is not available, now I've graduated, I've found myself in tech.
00:14:10.000 -->
00:14:11.200How do I grow into it?
00:14:11.360 -->
00:14:21.679Because one aspect of technology and a software company is that there's so many moving pieces, there's so much innovation that if you're not careful, you're not catch up.
00:14:21.759 -->
00:14:28.080And that's I like the point you said that it's an iterative learning process that you need to get yourself into.
00:14:28.240 -->
00:14:30.399But beyond that, how do you shape yourself?
00:14:30.559 -->
00:14:31.840How do you keep relevant?
00:14:32.080 -->
00:14:34.399How do you ensure that you are growing?
00:14:34.960 -->
00:14:36.879I think I'll answer that in two ways.
00:14:37.200 -->
00:14:43.600Number one, I told you I was not prepared to get into banking, I was not prepared to get into tech.
00:14:44.240 -->
00:14:45.279It found me.
00:14:45.759 -->
00:14:48.240All right, and that's what happens to a lot of us.
00:14:49.039 -->
00:14:49.519Right?
00:14:49.759 -->
00:14:52.559So, what I what I talked about, uh Mr.
00:14:52.720 -->
00:15:00.480Moneki in law school, as a lawyer, young lawyer, old lawyer, the bottom line is you know where to find the law.
00:15:00.559 -->
00:15:00.879Yes.
00:15:01.120 -->
00:15:10.559Because lawyers, first of all, are required across the board from hospitals to publishing houses to news houses, you know, everywhere.
00:15:10.720 -->
00:15:14.639You need a legal department because you are within a different sphere.
00:15:14.799 -->
00:15:19.200So when directly coming into tech, you have to come with that background.
00:15:19.360 -->
00:15:21.039You need to have been prepared.
00:15:21.440 -->
00:15:29.759You need to be to read widely and to use my professors PLO Lumumba's uh language, you need to read widely and wildly, right?
00:15:30.159 -->
00:15:34.080To ensure that you understand the developing trends.
00:15:34.159 -->
00:15:37.039Like now, AI is top the is top of the game.
00:15:37.200 -->
00:15:37.440Yeah.
00:15:37.600 -->
00:15:38.000All right.
00:15:38.080 -->
00:15:42.320We AI is someone was saying AI is taking over.
00:15:42.639 -->
00:15:51.120But someone corrected and said, it's not that AI is going to take your jobs, but people who understand AI are the ones that are going to take your jobs, right?
00:15:51.440 -->
00:16:03.919So to mean that you need to keep up with the trends that are moving within the system and moving within the world, you remember, and I should have mentioned this data protection is a big thing.
00:16:04.159 -->
00:16:07.120And you know, I'm uh passionate about data protection.
00:16:07.440 -->
00:16:17.360And in fact, when I just joined AT, the GDPR had just been uh launched in 2018, I think uh in May or thereabout in 2018.
00:16:18.080 -->
00:16:29.120And uh in 2019, we passed our act, the Data Protection Act in Kenya, and in the November of the same year, we established the Office of the Data Protection Commissioner.
00:16:29.360 -->
00:16:41.120So my point is if you're not keeping up with the trends, then you'll be saying even if you come in in tech, you're not good because tech is very fast moving.
00:16:41.200 -->
00:16:42.240You have to be agile.
00:16:42.399 -->
00:16:53.440To borrow Sam Gikandi's words, you know you have to be very agile, you have to keep moving with the with the flow and also have the interest to understand and to know what it is that is going on.
00:16:53.600 -->
00:17:02.559Like now today, I think I was one time in the company meeting, I I I I I caused laughter when I said that uh TikTok has become a new search engine for me.
00:17:02.879 -->
00:17:08.000And initially I thought TikTok was just people you know going to dance, you know.
00:17:08.319 -->
00:17:11.519But when you search anything on TikTok, it's a niche, it's a niche.
00:17:11.599 -->
00:17:15.519You are going to find very refined knowledge, um, knowledge and material.
00:17:16.160 -->
00:17:20.640So, as a young lawyer, as a birding lawyer, equip yourself.
00:17:21.200 -->
00:17:27.039Okay, always have things in your bag that you understand this is what is happening.
00:17:27.440 -->
00:17:30.799Because you don't have necessarily to be a tech lawyer.
00:17:31.200 -->
00:17:33.519Because when you are a lawyer, you can fall anywhere.
00:17:33.599 -->
00:17:35.839Because in law school, we are taught to be multi-purpose.
00:17:35.920 -->
00:17:37.599So you can you can go anywhere.
00:17:37.839 -->
00:17:46.319Even if I leave technology today, I'll go and fit right into a hospital setting because you have the basics, you know that everything operates under a certain like now.
00:17:46.400 -->
00:17:49.680We have the AI Act that has been going AI.
00:17:49.839 -->
00:17:55.519I was I was in uh Nigeria the other day, and there is an AI strategy that has been rolled out, right?
00:17:55.759 -->
00:18:00.000Yes, and soon we are going to start having AI law, right?
00:18:00.319 -->
00:18:06.079Yes, it's just to immerse yourself into those because it does not only affect tech, it is cross-cross-cutting.
00:18:06.720 -->
00:18:14.799So the the the simple guidance would be keep yourself abreast, expose yourself to those issues.
00:18:15.119 -->
00:18:19.200I think there's a song where they say you uh put your money where your mouth is.
00:18:19.359 -->
00:18:20.000Absolutely, right?
00:18:20.079 -->
00:18:22.880Yes, so you ensure you're equipping yourself in that fashion.
00:18:23.039 -->
00:18:23.599Yes.
00:18:24.160 -->
00:18:27.359And uh always know that you cannot get to know everything.
00:18:27.920 -->
00:18:31.119You will you will know on the on the go fly.
00:18:31.279 -->
00:18:34.960Yes, as you fly, yeah, that is when you you you get to Ambuka Nile.
00:18:36.160 -->
00:18:37.039I like that.
00:18:37.519 -->
00:18:41.359So, talking about AI, do you think AI will replace so many careers?
00:18:43.599 -->
00:18:49.119I think AI will replace people who do not embrace AI.
00:18:49.519 -->
00:18:52.240Yes, ignorance, yes, ignorance is not defense.
00:18:52.720 -->
00:19:04.640And in fact, yesterday I was listening to Nyerere a clip on uh Julius Yerere, and he was talking about Ujinga na Upumbavu, and he was saying that uh there is one that can be eliminated.
00:19:04.720 -->
00:19:06.240You see, Ujinga can be eliminated.
00:19:08.480 -->
00:19:12.079It's a foolishness, it's really hard, it is very hard.
00:19:12.480 -->
00:19:14.799You have to, it is a self-inflicted.
00:19:14.880 -->
00:19:30.160In fact, someone was saying somewhere that uh people other people are going to cry on your behalf when you are dead and when we are stupid, you know when you don't feel it, but other people feel the pain when you are dead, you don't feel the pain.
00:19:30.240 -->
00:19:33.759Yes, and also when you're stupid, you don't feel the pain.
00:19:35.839 -->
00:19:36.880You don't feel the pain.
00:19:37.359 -->
00:19:40.480People around you feel the pain of your mind mbavu.
00:19:42.720 -->
00:19:50.000I don't know which camera he's supposed to look at uh to give your parting shot before I conclude this.
00:19:50.240 -->
00:19:54.799But uh our chief there will direct us on which one is recording.
00:19:54.960 -->
00:20:17.359But nice discussion, uh Karuga, yeah, and thank you for gracing these podcasts and sharing your knowledge, your nuggets, and your experiences which are personal to you and which I'm sure millions and millions will learn through it over the years to ensure that we are building uh scalable solutions, but more so building sustainable companies.
00:20:17.440 -->
00:20:38.960Yeah, because I'm a believer, as much as I work for Africa Stock, I'm a believer that if we empower more people to succeed in establishing more companies, then we'll solve almost 70% of our problems, including uh what we were talking about earlier, about how government is run, how we elect bad leaders, because you'll have more employers than employees.
00:20:39.119 -->
00:20:52.240Yeah, and when you have more employers than employees, the choice shifts from the employer, may it be the and the employer can be a politician to employee, and now you can be able to build that culture together.
00:20:52.400 -->
00:20:53.519Yeah, yes.
00:20:53.759 -->
00:20:58.480What is your uh key as a as a we wait for our chief there?
00:20:58.799 -->
00:21:01.279What is your take on uh return to work?
00:21:01.440 -->
00:21:08.960You know, I saw that this morning that Amazon has requested all the people to be in the office for the five days in a week.
00:21:09.039 -->
00:21:12.960Yes, if it was up to me, there's something that we have missed.
00:21:13.680 -->
00:21:15.440Working remotely is excellent.
00:21:15.599 -->
00:21:16.880Yes, I love it.
00:21:17.279 -->
00:21:23.119And I think when we started working remotely, I worked for two straight years in the house.
00:21:24.240 -->
00:21:34.960But what we missed is the touch because you see, when people uh and you remember when we had the coaches meeting, uh Graham in his very uh interesting fashion.
00:21:35.519 -->
00:21:42.559So that you could be in a conference call uh and someone is muted and the the video is off.
00:21:42.720 -->
00:21:44.480The video is off and they are with their partners.
00:21:44.640 -->
00:21:45.200Yes.
00:21:46.000 -->
00:21:50.880So only when the it comes to bye guys, is they unmute bye.
00:21:51.119 -->
00:21:52.799You unmute quickly, bye.
00:21:53.359 -->
00:21:59.680But then it is very important for interaction, physical interaction.
00:22:00.319 -->
00:22:03.039It's not the same as keyboard interaction.
00:22:03.359 -->
00:22:17.200And while I may not say people need to go to work to come to work fully 100%, I would say it's important to have a hybrid where we have half the week you have the option of coming to the office, half the week you have the option of staying home.
00:22:17.519 -->
00:22:20.559But ensure that there is that physical touch, physical.
00:22:20.880 -->
00:22:25.599I'll heard a caveat that we need to improve the remote work experiences.
00:22:26.319 -->
00:22:28.640And we need to be very intentional about it.
00:22:28.880 -->
00:22:32.240Because you see, yeah, home is home.
00:22:32.319 -->
00:22:32.400Yes.
00:22:32.559 -->
00:22:35.279And home was set for many years before remote work.
00:22:35.599 -->
00:22:40.880Actually, remote work was so popular after COVID, which is four years now, and counting.
00:22:41.599 -->
00:22:54.160But now there are companies who have been very intentional about work from home, and they have actually given you all you need, including telling you the hours you should be able to, you know, do whatever you need.
00:22:54.319 -->
00:22:57.839Then there's tooling which uh gives checks and balance.
00:22:58.079 -->
00:23:01.039Because uh, by default, humans are not responsible.
00:23:01.200 -->
00:23:06.799Yeah, and uh, if I get a chance where I don't be held accountable, then be it.
00:23:07.119 -->
00:23:09.680So there is that, but ideally, that's my take.
00:23:09.839 -->
00:23:24.079Yeah, but also to say, yeah, because we have we have worked for Africa Stocking, and my experience has been self-managing teams, self-organizing teams, all right?
00:23:24.720 -->
00:23:36.400To mean that today, even if I have I go to I wake up and go to Kikoma Market to go and buy something, or I go to Nyamakema, I know there are specific things I need to deliver on.
00:23:36.880 -->
00:23:42.240So whether I am in the office or I'm not in the office, doesn't matter, I have that obligation.
00:23:42.319 -->
00:23:44.559Yeah, and I know that I need to respect that.
00:23:44.960 -->
00:23:48.079That is why I like the issue of self-managing teams.
00:23:48.960 -->
00:23:52.559But then you rightly said sometimes people people abuse it.
00:23:53.119 -->
00:23:56.160Because now, unless sometimes people need to be policed around.
00:23:57.119 -->
00:24:06.160The problem with being policed around, you realize that uh people will only want to look busy and they're just playing chess on the on the computer.
00:24:06.240 -->
00:24:08.240So the boss can see you're looking at the computer.
00:24:08.640 -->
00:24:14.160But the truth of the matter is you work when you self-manage and you self-regulate.
00:24:14.880 -->
00:24:21.279So when you introspect deeply, whether coming to work or you don't come to work, doesn't make any difference.
00:24:21.519 -->
00:24:22.960Does not make a big difference.
00:24:23.359 -->
00:24:27.599Just for me, the only reason is interaction, but not discipline.
00:24:27.920 -->
00:24:28.960Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:29.039 -->
00:24:32.079Yeah, that's your camera, your parting shop.
00:24:32.720 -->
00:24:33.200Wow.
00:24:33.440 -->
00:24:36.640I think uh I still feel like there's a lot we have not covered.
00:24:36.799 -->
00:24:41.440Absolutely, and we we may I think maybe the next time we are we are we are having a podcast.
00:24:41.680 -->
00:24:43.039No, we'll have niche discussions.
00:24:43.119 -->
00:24:46.400Yes, we may now have very targeted discussions, yes, and we'll go deep.
00:24:46.480 -->
00:24:53.039You notice I am very passionate about uh leadership, leadership, yeah, financial literacy, governance.
00:24:53.279 -->
00:24:55.119I will start with financial literacy.
00:24:55.279 -->
00:24:56.960Those are my very good ones.
00:24:57.119 -->
00:25:06.640Yes, and I remember one time uh the remember when we when we were talking, there's uh uh a video you pulled, and I think you need to uh you you even brought to my channel that I have a YouTube channel.
00:25:06.720 -->
00:25:07.039Yes.
00:25:07.200 -->
00:25:09.039Now you need to we need to start working on it.
00:25:09.200 -->
00:25:09.839Absolutely.
00:25:10.079 -->
00:25:30.319One of the videos one time I was talking in front of President Moy, I said I quoted uh JFK and JFK said that uh a society that does not pay uh respect, homage and respect to its youth is a society at a drift, a giant headed for the rocks.
00:25:30.960 -->
00:25:31.440Right?
00:25:33.039 -->
00:25:41.039The youth is a big population in this country and in Africa and the world 70% to be exact.
00:25:41.839 -->
00:25:42.640Very good.
00:25:43.680 -->
00:26:01.200If we do not respect and pay homage to the youth, and now it is us as the youth who should respect ourselves and uh uh ensure that we are on the front line, yes, you know, as what we had uh discussed.
00:26:02.160 -->
00:26:06.480Uh we need to take what is rightfully ours.
00:26:06.559 -->
00:26:13.759We need to take leadership, we need to take the bull by its horns and ensure that we are moving Africa, we are moving this country forward, all right?
00:26:13.839 -->
00:26:16.799Because Africa is ours and we'll change Africa in our lifetime.
00:26:17.279 -->
00:26:31.519My parting shot would be now that's a very difficult thing to even was that a parting shot that I did, but yeah, I think uh been good having you guys been uh engaging in this discussion.
00:26:32.000 -->
00:26:36.319I look forward to you know having other discussions.
00:26:36.480 -->
00:26:37.759Uh, it was very insightful.
00:26:37.839 -->
00:26:48.400I also realized that you know I was able to uh you know speak of things that I didn't remember many years ago, and you know, things that have have happened.
00:26:48.880 -->
00:26:54.640Yeah, but uh parting shot is that uh we shall find each other again on this channel.
00:26:55.519 -->
00:27:02.640Same place, same place, different time, different time, but yeah, it's been uh it's been an absolute honor and thank you very much.
00:27:02.960 -->
00:27:05.839No worries, uh my learned friend.
00:27:06.240 -->
00:27:08.799I don't know if I have the right to call you my learned friend.
00:27:09.119 -->
00:27:10.559Let me tell you, learned friend.
00:27:10.720 -->
00:27:12.480You you don't have the right to call me a landed friend.
00:27:12.720 -->
00:27:15.359Yes, I I figured that out after calling him several times.
00:27:15.680 -->
00:27:21.519You know, learned friend is when I am talking to Irene, I'll call her my learned friend.
00:27:21.599 -->
00:27:25.680Yes, when I'm talking to Kibet, I'll call him my learned friend, advocate to advocate.
00:27:26.160 -->
00:27:28.640Okay, yes, so you my apologies, yes.
00:27:28.720 -->
00:27:33.519So don't misuse but you might be surprised that might go and do law just to call you my land.
00:27:33.839 -->
00:27:35.200I feel it's nice as a lawyer.
00:27:35.279 -->
00:27:36.640We are learned, other people are educated.
00:27:36.799 -->
00:27:37.440We are very learned.
00:27:38.559 -->
00:27:40.240That's that's what they say, but anyway.
00:27:40.480 -->
00:27:42.799Why do you guys uh before I give my partition?
00:27:43.119 -->
00:27:46.960Why do you guys give uh speak some time in Latin?
00:27:47.279 -->
00:27:55.759You know, Latin basically a lot of legal tradition and and the jargon was in Latin, right?
00:27:55.920 -->
00:27:57.680So there's some of the things that you're taught in Latin.
00:27:57.839 -->
00:27:59.039Yes, a lot of Latin.
00:27:59.119 -->
00:28:01.680We we there's a lot of Latin in within the law.
00:28:02.240 -->
00:28:11.279So you you find like uh when someone is talking, when you hear someone talks of men's rare, uh, you know, there's a lot of Latin generally in uh in the study of law.
00:28:11.440 -->
00:28:13.119Okay, yeah, no worries.
00:28:13.200 -->
00:28:18.799Uh is an aspect of tradition, yeah, how far we have come, yeah, yeah, things like that.
00:28:19.039 -->
00:28:19.519Interesting.
00:28:19.680 -->
00:28:22.319Thank you so much, Kevin, for you know, sharing.
00:28:22.880 -->
00:28:31.279And uh, I've made it a habit or tradition to give my parting shot in African proverb.
00:28:31.599 -->
00:28:35.680And today, actually, I'll give one from your backyard.
00:28:36.000 -->
00:28:36.720Very good.
00:28:36.960 -->
00:28:40.480It goes like this Moge Nimotale.
00:28:41.039 -->
00:28:41.680Excellent.
00:28:42.000 -->
00:28:52.400A wise person is the one who listens to cancel, yes, which is from Kikuyu community, yes, to all the people not to don't play any advice.
00:28:52.640 -->
00:28:54.240Yes, until next time.
00:28:54.400 -->
00:28:56.480My name is Michael Kemali.
