[00:00:00] Opening: Shark, we've got a panic on our hands on the Fourth of July
[00:00:23] Matthew: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the IMMP Podcast from the Inter Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter.
[00:00:31] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter.
[00:00:33] Matthew: I'm his dad, he's my son, and it's summertime again.
[00:00:38] Ian: It's summertime.
[00:00:40] Matthew: We've, we're h- past the beginning of summer. We're heading into 4th of July
So it's, it's time to enjoy the season
[00:00:50] Ian: It's time for a pair of landlocked podcasters to talk about going to the beach
[00:00:54] Matthew: Right.
We're gonna head to the, some of the, yeah, that wonderful Colorado oceanfront
[00:00:58] Ian: Exactly.
[00:01:00] Matthew: Yeah. We gotta wait till we talk about earthquake movies to really discuss that.
[00:01:04] Ian: Oh, absolutely. Wildfire movies But this is one that I'm amazed that isn't... This is an instance of a film I'm surprised is not in the you showed it to me before the podcast classics.
[00:01:22] Matthew: Yeah. I mean, there are s- there are... Just as I saw many movies when I was too young to really have seen them, uh, there were probably a few movies that I showed to you when you were a bit too young to be shown them.
[00:01:34] Ian: Probably.
[00:01:35] Matthew: This is a movie that I was cautious about and never really did get around to s- to, to showing to you or recommending to you before now.
[00:01:42] Ian: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Matthew: And this is the movie Jaws from 1975. No, no.
[00:01:51] Ian: No, no. Pop culture reference incoming. Yeah. This is... Oh, goodness. Jaws is one of those... I thi- I knew the entire film before we watched it-
[00:02:04] Matthew: Really? ...
[00:02:05] Ian: just purely based on, cultural osmosis. Like, more than I even expected I knew this film. I mean, it was the, the highest grossing film upon its release.
A 9 million budget turned into $500 million of revenue-
[00:02:26] Matthew: And this is a- ... in the
[00:02:26] Ian: box office.
[00:02:27] Matthew: This is a movie- It's, it's amazing ... that is credited with creating the very idea of- Mm-hmm ... the summer blockbuster movie. It was this- That is so wild ... everybody who saw it, many people went to see it multiple times in the movie theaters.
It stayed in theaters for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, months. And it was, like, all anybody could talk about for so long.
[00:02:51] Ian: Oh, my word. It
[00:02:52] Matthew: took over the culture.
[00:02:56] Ian: That's so wild, but it also makes sense. I grew up in a post-Jaws cinematic environment. It's the idea of, the summer blockbuster was already so established.
So the idea that there is a pre-Jaws, pre-blockbuster, and pre-blockbuster- ... RIP blockbuster. Uh, but the idea that there's a, there's, like, an era before that is kinda wild. It's one of those moments of, really makes you think about it.
[00:03:27] Matthew: And before Jaws, there were popular and influential movies, but none with the, uh, the cultural clout that this had.
And after this movie, in 1977, Star Wars comes along. And as interesting and innovative and good as Star Wars was-
[00:03:45] Ian: Mm-hmm ...
[00:03:46] Matthew: one of the things I believe contributed to its success was the fact that after Jaws, people were looking for the next blockbuster movie for the summer. Yeah. And Star Wars fit the bill.
[00:03:57] Ian: It's fascinating, though, because Jaws- is a horror film?
[00:04:05] Matthew: Yes. You can look at it a- in a few ways, a thriller, but, uh, it, it is a horror film. It is a monster movie.
[00:04:13] Ian: Yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a monster film, which is what we'd expect nowadays to be an October thing. Not, not a summer thing. Right. But it's the summer blockbuster, which is more because of theme.
Just, uh, very thematic in that sense.
[00:04:26] Matthew: It is, and also the plot. Jaws hinges around 4th of July, Independence Day.
[00:04:32] Ian: Yes.
[00:04:32] Matthew: The holiday, and the tension between wanting to admit there is a danger and deal with the danger appropriately.
[00:04:42] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:43] Matthew: And the problem of admitting to this danger and dealing with it is going to have adverse financial consequences for some of the people affected.
[00:04:57] Ian: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Matthew: It's... Gee, is there anything in the 21st century we can see that as metaphors for? Half a dozen- Yeah ... things maybe?
[00:05:04] Ian: Half a dozen things. Jaws is a horror film about a giant shark. It is also a very, very deep- hu- study of humanity.
[00:05:16] Matthew: Yes.
[00:05:18] Ian: And those two films both happen, but I will not say that they happen concurrently.
This is a film that is very much one story and then a second story. There is a distinct line in the middle of Jaws.
[00:05:32] Matthew: Right. We get different acts and they, the, the pivot to the style and the tone and everything else is so dramatic at those pivots.
[00:05:40] Ian: Oh, absolutely.
[00:05:42] Matthew: And also, it's, it's gotta be mentioned, this is what really, uh, elevated Steven Spielberg to-
[00:05:49] Ian: Mm-hmm
[00:05:50] Matthew: like the American movie director for, for so many years. And he had done a lot of interesting things before that, cut his teeth in television and, done some things in film. But creating this movie and, um, it-- We already see so many of the things that are
trademarks of Steven Spielberg movies throughout the '80s
[00:06:13] Ian: Yeah. But, well, we also need to acknowledge Jaws is not a wholly original film. It is an adaptation.
[00:06:22] Matthew: Yes.
[00:06:23] Ian: It is an adaptation of a book by Peter Benchley Adapted by Peter Benchley and Carl Gottlieb?
[00:06:34] Matthew: Yes. Peter Benchley- Mm ... wrote the first couple of drafts and then Gottlieb, screenwriter, re- rewrote it, including while they were filming.
So they have co-screenwriting credits on this. But Benchley wrote the f- the solid first drafts based upon his book. And his book, the, the book Jaws, was itself a best seller and a cultural phenomenon.
[00:06:53] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:54] Matthew: So people were waiting for the movie version as well.
[00:06:57] Ian: Oh, yeah. Uh, but that, that's very important because it means Jaws didn't just come out of nowhere.
This story has that extra polish and it has a, a literary core, which changes how it's done. It means that Jaws the movie has some more stage theatrical elements than you'd expect. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:17] Matthew: And enough of a narrative structure to allow it to stand up to those changes we talked about when it pivots from one kind of a movie to another.
[00:07:24] Ian: Mm-hmm. But it starts out just with the beach town of Amity Island.
And a young woman being pulled under water in a late night swim And killed. The m- first thing is the monster attack. The first things on screen. Oh my goodness.
[00:07:45] Matthew: And it's interesting that, and this might be just Hollywood marketing and such, but at the beginning of the movie we get that typical, often unfortunate horror movie trope of connecting sexuality and violent death.
[00:08:01] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:01] Matthew: In that we've got the young man and young woman flirting, and she's running to the beach and discarding her clothes as she goes before she jumps in the water. It's all shot very dark, but the impression is that she's got rid of all of her clothes by the time she's gotten in the water.
[00:08:15] Ian: Yeah,
[00:08:15] Matthew: And this is borne out by the poster for Jaws, which has the shark under the water, and we see a woman swimming on the surface, and everything is obscured because of the way the water is splashing from her swimming, but it's clear the way the poster is painted that she is not clothed.
[00:08:32] Ian: Yeah.
[00:08:33] Matthew: And there is, there's, there's that, as I say, that common horror movie trope of, of com- taking these two aspects of experience and combining them. And yet that's not something that the movie carries on further. Some horror movies throughout the '80s and earl- and late '70s, the whole point was, well, , if you express sexuality, you deserve to be horribly murdered.
Um, now, but Jaws starts out with that and it's, it's almost as if it has to get it out of the way. Like somebody at the studio said, "We have to do this," they said, "Fine," and then they moved on with the story.
[00:09:05] Ian: Yeah. I will also say, though, later parts of Jaws directly deal with the concept of humanity's, not thinking past its base instincts.
[00:09:17] Matthew: Yes.
[00:09:18] Ian: Sexuality, but also, violence or revenge. There is an element of we've grown past that, but there's also an analysis of, blind action is a path to danger throughout all of Jaws.
[00:09:34] Matthew: Yes.
[00:09:36] Ian: Which means that they got the, the most common cinematic version of that out of the way, but that sets a precedent that we see other characters repeat with different follies.
[00:09:49] Matthew: And they start early on when, when , they're looking into everything they c- they can learn about sharks. They raise the fact that nobody really knows how old sharks are, at least in the '70s. Nobody really knows how old sharks are or how long they have been around on Earth. They, they highlight the fact that sharks are a primal force- And a, and a perfect eating machine.
And as humans have to confront and deal with it, the humans become more and more primal. Kind of meet the shark where it is.
[00:10:23] Ian: Yes. So We get that initial connection to use for there.
[00:10:30] Matthew: And it sets us up in a story with some very basic character tropes. Our central- Mm ... character is Chief Brody, the police chief, recently hired police chief on Amity Island. It's his first summer. He's from New York City, where he was a cop and thought he was overwhelmed, he really can't make a difference.
But in a place like Amity, which is low crime but needs a police force, he can make a difference. But he is an outsider, and they're never g- really going to accept him as an islander.
[00:11:01] Ian: The first things we get is him trying to, uh, fix his accent.
[00:11:08] Matthew: Yes.
[00:11:09] Ian: Which I'm just going to make a callback right now after the, after our last episode, all being about a character with a horrible accent the entire time.
It caught me off guard in a way I wasn't expecting. That's just the, the juxtaposition of IMMP episodes causing strange ripples through media.
[00:11:30] Matthew: We're waiting for the, uh, the Chief Brody, uh, Jacques Clouseau, uh, crossover.
[00:11:36] Ian: I'm here about a shark.
[00:11:38] Matthew: A shark?
[00:11:47] Ian: A shark?
[00:11:49] Matthew: Yeah. Exactly. Oh. And we've got Roy Scheider and he is a, an actor we've seen in other things. We saw 2010 for the podcast a few years ago, and he's in that.
[00:11:58] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:59] Matthew: And he's s- such a good actor, and this, um, this was a good role for him.
[00:12:03] Ian: Oh, yeah. , He's our, our first protagonist, but he is a, a strong force to keep the entire story going because it is off of him that we get the first indications of everyone else. It's through the comparison and the interaction with him that everyone else gets contextualized.
[00:12:19] Matthew: Right. And he's a good, uh, a good surrogate for us, a good proxy for us as the audience because he is an outsider. He's learning about the place just as we are. He is not necessarily in sync with all the people that he needs to deal with. He is not a person who's filled with courage. He is a person who knows what's right and will do what, what it takes to do what's right.
But he's afraid of the water, and , his first instincts, his first actions are very direct in order to protect people and himself. There's this shark attack, and they find the remains of the woman from that first, scene, not much left of her, and -- It's clearly a shark attack.
And Brody wants to close the beaches until they can find, uh, this shark.
[00:13:00] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:00] Matthew: And of course, the mayor absolutely can't, can't allow that because this is a summer town. It makes all of its money in the summer. Fourth of July is, is coming up in a week, and it is its biggest day of the whole year. Essentially, the town would be ruined if it has to go an entire summer with everybody being afraid to swim, and yet there's a shark out there that has eaten someone and is going to eat more people, and that's the, well, the, the basic conflict of the first half of the movie.
[00:13:34] Ian: So immediately that's, yeah, that's our tension. The mayor wants to push back for the sake of the town, and the town is with the mayor to start out
[00:13:42] Matthew: Absolutely
[00:13:44] Ian: Which means that this outsider new police chief is even more pushed outside
The coroner kind of pressured into saying the mayor is right. But eventually the evidence can't be ignored.
[00:13:58] Matthew: Right. Initially they're changing, uh, Brody's initial report of probable cause of death shark attack to probable cause of death boating accident.
[00:14:08] Ian: Yeah.
[00:14:10] Matthew: And as is said in the movie later on, this was no boating accident.
[00:14:14] Ian: Yes. But then a young boy is killed and we have two victims.
[00:14:20] Matthew: Yes. You
[00:14:20] Ian: can't ignore that.
[00:14:21] Matthew: They actually go there. They have the boy eaten by a shark.
[00:14:27] Ian: Yeah.
[00:14:28] Matthew: I'm usually, you know, that kind of danger to little kids is a nope, I'm, I'm out.
Mm-hmm. And yet, as horrible, as horrible as it is in this movie, it's needed to propel the story, and it's needed to, to show the stakes for what they are. And
They emphasize the fact that there are so many kids in the water here. Mm-hmm. There's so many little kids, uh, on the beaches at, at Amity Island, that it could've been any one of them, and it happened to be this, uh, this boy.
And- Yeah ... then finally, the, the town is taking seriously the fact that this is, there, there's a shark out there. And yet they still don't wanna take the steps that are, that are truly necessary. And their, their idea is to, to have a $3,000 bounty on whoever catches the shark. And that just leads to a horrible circus of both islanders and a lot of people from outside coming in with everything from, harpoons to dynamite, getting out there on little boats trying to catch this shark.
[00:15:35] Ian: Which shows the next of our kind of like, you know, there's people out there driven now by greed.
[00:15:40] Matthew: Yes.
[00:15:41] Ian: Is our ne- is like the follies of man in Jaws. The bounty and the chaos this causes. And we watch Brody go from the police chief that no one wants to deal with to the overwhelmed police chief trying to wrangle this entire event is such a shark...
A, a sharp contrast, a shark contrast. It, it's, it's very effective at just, like, "Oh, wow, that's, it's a lurch."
[00:16:10] Matthew: Yeah. They were in the process of gearing up for the big influx of outsiders for the holiday, and now they've got this- ... huge immediate influx of dangerous outsiders trying to catch this shark.
[00:16:24] Ian: Yeah.
But the town's a little happy that people are coming in.
[00:16:28] Matthew: Yeah, I guess it's, it is bringing in some money, and they figure with this many people hunting for the shark, eventually they're gonna find it. And yeah. Yeah. Somebody catches a shark. Somebody catches a big shark. Yeah.
[00:16:39] Ian: Yeah, a big tiger shark.
[00:16:41] Matthew: Yeah.
And here, at this point, the oceanographer the shark expert from the Oceanography Institute- has shown up, and that's played by Richard Dreyfuss. Another character- Yeah ... we've seen before. Somebody he, continued to work with Spielberg because he was in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
[00:16:59] Ian: Yes.
[00:17:00] Matthew: And He and Brody agree far more than anybody else agrees with each other. Well- In that-
[00:17:06] Ian: Mm ...
[00:17:06] Matthew: yeah, this was a, a... The shark attacks were done by a really, really big shark, most likely a great white. And- this shark that these guys caught, this is not the shark that did these attacks.
[00:17:21] Ian: No. It is interesting that we have here our, second of the protagonist trio coming in as the shark expert, and their response is to just kind of continue to say that this is what sharks do. He's there opening up the sha- the, the, a shark and finding all of these things to try to prove that the tiger shark isn't the one that killed, the swimmers.
And it's like he's pulling out license plates and all sorts of stuff. Sharks are just shown to be these terrifying, vicious things that will kill you on instinct. It is it's, it's very anti-shark propaganda- ... in many ways. And the fact that they give that to a cl- to our expert is setting up the sharks as more of a, a horror creature than a natural creature.
[00:18:15] Matthew: Right. And there are people who actually study sharks who hate this movie- Yes ... uh, because of how much it, uh... It wasn't inaccurate in that how dangerous sharks can be. Mm-hmm. But the idea that the sharks exist to eat people. Mm. No, they really don't care about that, and they don't usually hang out where people do.
If they happen to, then yeah, it can be bad news.
[00:18:42] Ian: This is, this is a completely side thing, but, uh In, in a weird way, Jaws becoming more real than it had because recent, relatively recent studies have found sharks testing positive for, um, caffeine, painkillers, and drugs in the areas where certain yachts are popular.
[00:19:03] Matthew: Sharks on drugs.
[00:19:03] Ian: In the modern era. Which, which feels like leading to, like, we're creating Jaws in ways we're not supposed to. Yeah.
[00:19:10] Matthew: Yes. That's gonna be Sharknado 8: Sharks on drugs.
[00:19:15] Ian: Yeah. Exactly. But there's no explanation for why the shark in Jaws is like this. This is the closest we get, which is because shark.
[00:19:27] Matthew: Right, and they would... The way they present it, they, this tiger shark that they caught, and eventually, even though the mayor does not wanna open this up because he doesn't want any evidence contrary to the idea that this is the shark that- Mm-hmm ... has been killing people, therefore it's fine to open on, uh, the holiday.
Instead, um, you know, they open it up and they portray the tiger shark as, well, tiger sharks are the garbage men of the sea. That's why they've got all this weird stuff, but not the remains of the people who were attacked. So we know it wasn't this shark. But then they also portray the great white that they're really going after as, it really is this territorial monster.
It has found this place, the, the, the beach and the harbor at Amity Island, and the eating is good here, so it will not leave. The only options are we abandon this place to it, or we hunt and kill the monster.
[00:20:22] Ian: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Matthew: The only options. Classic monster movie conundrum.
[00:20:26] Ian: Classic monster movie conundrum.
[00:20:28] Matthew: And even after Hooper and Brody go out, having drunk too much, and l- looking for the shark, 'cause it's a night feeder, and instead finding the, the battered remains of a boat that was destroyed by the shark, apparently, and some of its teeth that prove this is a giant great white. Even after they come back with that evidence, the mayor still doesn't wanna believe it, doesn't accept it.
They dropped the tooth, so he can't show that to the mayor, and the mayor wants to, uh, go ahead and open the beaches for 4th of July.
[00:21:00] Ian: Yeah. 'Cause the mayor's, the mayor's goal is just for the town, for the town.
[00:21:05] Matthew: Right. For the town based upon the criteria that he and the townspeople are focused on, which is their, their economic survival.
[00:21:15] Ian: Yeah. Which puts a little bit of a weird parallel between the mayor and the shark at times.
There's this territory battle of the thing that wants to... There, some of the descriptions at times of, like, the people that'll come in-
[00:21:33] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:21:34] Ian: has this, like, feeding frenzy, like, talk from the mayor about the town and what it needs money-wise. And they keep putting the, mayor in these, like, blue suit jackets and white shirts with, like, like the anchor pattern.
I'm thinking that it's like they put him in shark colors.
[00:21:57] Matthew: Oh, you're right. Interesting. Very nautical and very shark-like.
[00:22:00] Ian: Yeah. So there's this parallel of those two.
[00:22:05] Matthew: And it's such a great set of shots as they're setting up the beginning of the Fourth of July holiday, and the beaches are getting so crowded. And we see ferry after ferry after ferry full of people show up on the island. Mm-hmm. And having established what we have, it's hard for me to look at those shots and not think of, "Oh, this is all food."
Yes. This is all bait for the shark. The shark is gonna have a great time because they're doing exactly what it needs.
[00:22:35] Ian: We, we got to see earlier when the people were all hunting for the shark for the, for a bounty, these shots of all these little ships sailing out and this chaos in the water as they drop chum and everything else.
And now we see boats come in, and they l- Some of the shots with the water, partially because of just the technology, but they're filmed a little similarly at times.
[00:22:57] Matthew: Yes. Yes, indeed.
[00:22:59] Ian: It's like, oh.
[00:23:01] Matthew: So we've got all of these people crowding the beaches. We've got Brody and Hooper knowing that there is an incredibly dangerous monster out there who's just looking for exactly what you're giving it.
[00:23:13] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:14] Matthew: And just in case we weren't already against the mayor and thought he was misguided, the mayor is not content to have the beaches open. Nobody's going in the water because there have been two shark attacks. They'll hang out on the beach, but they're not going in the water. And the mayor is going around persuading people, and in some cases kind of strong-arming them, into go out into the water.
"We gotta get this going. We gotta have people enjoy themselves for the summer to work." So he is insisting people go into harm's way.
[00:23:47] Ian: Yep.
[00:23:49] Matthew: And the predictable happens. Well, the predictable happens in an unpredictable way.
[00:23:54] Ian: Yeah.
[00:23:55] Matthew: Because we get another glimpse at another part of human nature here as well.
[00:24:00] Ian: Oh, yeah
[00:24:01] Matthew: because in addition to the beaches being open, we also have Every, seasonal deputy from the police department, and I think we've got Coast Guard spotters and helicopters. We've got all of these people in boats and helicopters and s- and watchtowers watching for sharks.
And that too- Mm-hmm ... is giving kind of an oppressive feel to the whole thing. And then there's a sighting of a shark
[00:24:24] Ian: Yep ...
[00:24:25] Matthew: a giant fin, and there's a panic as people scramble out of the water, and that is, is itself dangerous.
[00:24:34] Ian: Mm-hmm. And you can kind of feel the entirety of this, you know, the, the mayor's going around building this thing, and it all starts to crumble right then.
That's when you see the system break for that moment.
[00:24:47] Matthew: Yes. And yet that wasn't a shark.
[00:24:51] Ian: No.
[00:24:52] Matthew: It was a couple of kids with a cardboard fin swimming around.
[00:24:56] Ian: Yeah.
[00:24:56] Matthew: And taking advantage of this opportunity to make something happen by scaring people. Stupid kid stuff, but with, with- Yeah
serious consequences.
[00:25:06] Ian: But the fact that, the fact that the tension was high enough that the kids were able to break it
[00:25:11] Matthew: Yes. And yet at the, at the same time, there, there's also the, a little like pond or estuary
And Brody has insisted that that's where his kids play because the beach is too dangerous. And there are some people out there in boats and such. And it turns out that's where the shark is. The shark- Yeah ... has come back. As everybody was distracted by the kids' prank over on the main beach, the shark has made it into the estuary.
[00:25:37] Ian: And it attacks there and nearly kills Brody's son.
[00:25:41] Matthew: Right. He does get somebody else.
[00:25:44] Ian: Yes.
[00:25:44] Matthew: And Brody's son is in shock. Oh, yes he does. Yeah, there's one guy on a boat, and the kids are on their little sailfish, messing about, having fun. And, there's a, there's a, a guy and his boat is between the shark and them.
[00:25:59] Ian: His son nearly get, like, like, his son getting hurt. Yeah. Not killed, but just hurt- He gets hurt and he's in shock ... is kind of such a shock.
[00:26:06] Matthew: Yeah. And he, um-
[00:26:07] Ian: Yeah, you kind of remember the panic and you remember that attack, but the piece is, like, you f- you get caught up in it all.
[00:26:13] Matthew: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and, and Brody's son is in the hospital overnight, and, and Brody realizes, okay...
And even, even the mayor at this point, the mayor is stunned and in shock, and Brody convinces the mayor to sign this voucher so I can hire a real shark hunter.
[00:26:32] Ian: Because the, I mean, and because there's, there's plenty in the area. They've, they've come because he placed that bounty, and some haven't, uh, some left information, but there was one guy.
[00:26:41] Matthew: There's one guy we saw earlier at the beginning, at the early town meeting where the mayor posts the $3,000 reward. Quint.
[00:26:52] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:52] Matthew: Mr. Quint, who is a shark hunter, and he is this grizzled old guy. He gets the attention of the noisy meeting at the beginning just by dragging his nails across a chalkboard.
[00:27:04] Ian: Ugh.
[00:27:06] Matthew: Which is another thing that goes back to, um, or is, is cited in, uh, one of the Pink Panther movies we, we saw.
[00:27:15] Ian: Oh, yes it is, isn't it?
[00:27:16] Matthew: The torture scene with the super villain, Chief Inspector Dreyfus, not Richard Dreyfuss. Saying, "Yeah, bring her to the school room," which is- Oh, yes
this place. And he puts on this big steel claw, but all he does is drag it across a chalkboard.
[00:27:31] Ian: Yeah. Uh, honestly, they, uh, the fact that the audio clipped out in Jaws- ... trying to record the nails on a chalkboard is almost more terrifying. 'Cause, like, the first thing you get Quint doing is not m- minding causing pain to an entire room of people.
[00:27:47] Matthew: Yes.
[00:27:48] Ian: There's this element of like, you know, "I don't care about any of you. Pay me 10K and I'll go kill a shark."
[00:27:55] Matthew: Yeah. You want this done, you hire somebody to do it. You don't just put this half-baked bounty of $3,000. I, you hire me to kill the shark, I will find and kill the shark. It's gonna to cost you $10,000.
And the mayor says, "We'll take that under advisement." That's it.
[00:28:09] Ian: Yeah. But now, uh, the mayor pays Quint.
[00:28:12] Matthew: Right. Half a day- And they've got him ... he signs the thing and, and that's where the movie shifts to a completely different movie.
[00:28:18] Ian: Absolutely. Uh, the first part, and I, I wanna say the first part is longer than the second, I think.
[00:28:23] Matthew: Might be.
[00:28:25] Ian: Okay, I'm gonna be very honest. It's
[00:28:26] Matthew: a, it's a slower
[00:28:27] Ian: build,
[00:28:27] Matthew: certainly. Yeah.
[00:28:27] Ian: It's a slower build, but there is a lot of, there's a lot of walking and talking. There's a lot of just staged, stage-like scenes in this.
[00:28:37] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Ian: Jaws is a very, very slow build in that first half, partially because it's trying to make the point of how aggravating it is to get these people in authority to listen to the danger.
[00:28:51] Matthew: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:52] Ian: They've got to take time to establish the folly- But it is also just slower.
[00:29:03] Matthew: Yeah. And you need that because the whole thing is about people dragging their feet and not wanting to acknowledge what has to be done. Yeah, that's not gonna be a fast-paced kind of storytelling, and yet it's vital for the movie.
[00:29:15] Ian: It is. It's, it's part of what n- like even if I hadn't been able to look that up and know, I could have guessed that Jaws was based on a book because that adaptation felt so, so stage theater in terms of its positioning, in terms of its acting. It's actually once we get onto the boat that some of the more dramatic and experimental, more Alfred Hitchcock-y camera work and such- Yeah
really comes into play.
[00:29:47] Matthew: And we talk about this as being the first summer blockbuster. It is so much more dialogue-heavy than summer blockbusters as we now tend to think of them. Partly because- Yes ... summer blockbusters now need to have a global reach, and the less- Mm-hmm ... the less dialogue-heavy they are, the easier that is to do, and the more action-oriented they are.
But, but this was very dialogue-heavy, especially in that first half.
[00:30:09] Ian: Yeah.
[00:30:10] Matthew: But now we shift to, come back to Quint, and he's the person being hired by Brody. So it's Brody and Hooper, who's still around- Yep ... the, the shark expert. Mm-hmm. They are going out on the ocean with Quint in Quint's boat, Orca, to hunt a shark.
And, and Quint is this horrible old man. He's not that old. When I first saw this, he seemed ancient. He's this horrible, grizzled old man who delights in causing physical and emotional discomfort for other people.
[00:30:43] Ian: Yes.
[00:30:43] Matthew: He's just nothing. He's always drinking horrible stuff.
[00:30:46] Ian: He's just not a fun guy. There's, there, there's an excellent moment that kind of establishes these two characters of Quint and Hooper where Quint is there on the back of the boat just leaning back with his, with his giant rod trying to, like, uh, bait the shark.
And we just watch him drink an entire can of beer while keeping eye contact with Hooper and then crush the can. And Hooper just keeping eye contact back, finishes his, like, solo cup of, I think- And then- ... like, and crush that and drinks his whole- Crushes the
[00:31:18] Matthew: plastic cup as if it's the same feat as the steel can.
[00:31:21] Ian: It's so much less effect- impactful. But there's that element of, like, Quint is, is here just like, "I'm the toughest guy in the room, and I won't take anything no for it. I'm here," kind of a gruff, grizzled person. Hooper is just- I'm here because I enjoy the ocean. He's paid for a bunch of the equipment, but he's fascinated by the, the nature of it all.
And Brody's just a bundle of my son's in the hospital, people are hurt, kill this thing nerves.
[00:31:51] Matthew: Yes. And, and we've established, I mean, Quint lives in his, like, boathouse business that's covered in shark jaws that he's selling, bones that he sells to people and takes people out on, on, uh, on expeditions for fishing.
[00:32:07] Ian: Yeah.
[00:32:08] Matthew: Hooper, we've established, he w- he grew up as a, a, a rich kid. He's-
[00:32:15] Ian: Yeah ...
[00:32:15] Matthew: the reason he's an oceanographer and, and a biologist and obsessed with sharks is that a shark destroyed the powerboat that he was given for his 13th birthday, and he's been able to buy all the equipment himself that he needs for his current work.
So they come from such different worlds, Quint and Hooper, and they don't have a lot of respect for each other, and yet they respect each other in, in a weird way. They- Yeah ... it's almost as if they don't- They don't have a lot of respect from the respective worlds from which they come, and yet they ultimately have a certain amount of respect for each other as people, certainly in a way that develops over time.
[00:32:57] Ian: Mm-hmm. We get to see that build and change over time.
[00:33:01] Matthew: Quint is, very dismissive and, , derogatory towards all of the techniques and technology and equipment and things that Hooper has. And Hooper is, dismissive of the fact that all... Quint thinks that a scowl and his experience is all he needs, and of course he needs more than that.
[00:33:20] Ian: A- and we see the t- like it's kind of interesting that Brody gets sh- shunted out of this because- ... yeah, Quint and Hooper become a buddy pair, where Quint is there like, "Ah, this fancy stuff, we don't need it." And then when the chips are down, Quint is very much like, "Use the this, use the that." "Use the tech."
[00:33:40] Matthew: Yeah. He's, he is still the us. He's still the audience member in the movie saying, "No, don't go in the basement."
[00:33:47] Ian: Yeah. Uh, but... And, and Hooper is like, you know, "Can't just make this through with a scowl and a tough attitude." But then when things go wrong, Hooper is trying his dangdest, hopping over stuff, being a physical man of action to make things happen.
[00:34:05] Matthew: Yes, because he might not be a professional shark hunter, but he knows sharks and he is an extremely capable seaman.
[00:34:13] Ian: Yes. And th- that, yeah, that, you know, two different directions arriving to the same place respect- Yeah ... as you were describing very much here. And they, encounter the shark pretty quickly actually.
[00:34:26] Matthew: Right. The, uh, the, the monster hunt, which is the second part of the movie, it is repetitive- Mm-hmm ... yet, yet it, it's, uh, repetitive in a way that maintains tension and works very well. Because, yeah, it doesn't take- Qui- qui- ... long for them to encounter the shark.
[00:34:43] Ian: Quite literally on the line it maintains tension because they pinned it with a, a, uh, a harpoon line and, like, a tracker barrel And try to be able to like, you know, get an e- get eyes on this and follow it wherever it goes.
But the shark's clever.
[00:35:01] Matthew: It is.
[00:35:02] Ian: It's, it's, it dodges and weaves and goes under the boat, and all of their attempts at tracking it start to fail.
[00:35:10] Matthew: And I don't know that we mentioned this earlier, but it's critical here in that the first part of the movie, we see the shark very, very little.
[00:35:17] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:18] Matthew: We see its attack more from a, the victim's point of view.
We see little glimpses of it. We start to see more and more of it, but it is this mysterious thing out there that we d- don't even know how to confront. Here in this second half of the movie, we see more and more and more of it, where it now, it is a force, a monster to be confronted.
[00:35:40] Ian: Yes.
[00:35:41] Matthew: And yeah, they, Quint's, at first, they sort of escalate how they're attempting to deal with it.
First they hook it on a deep sea fishing line on Orca, and Quint is trying to, to fight it in from his, uh, his chair. And eventually it bites right through the line. Mm-hmm. And yet it shows, like you're saying, it's smart. It, it shows some tactics in terms of how it's dealing with being on this line. So that doesn't work.
And then they're using the barrels where they're harpooning it with, big yellow floats- Mm-hmm ... trying to tire it out by keeping it from going underwater and having it, forcing it to drag these barrels, and they get a barrel on it. But later they get a second and a third barrel. And also they get a, a close enough look at this shark as it comes up alongside Orca to see how incredibly big it is.
This is a 25-foot shark.
[00:36:33] Ian: Yeah. 'Cause before we got fin and we got teeth, and then as they start to be able to, like, hook it or, uh, you know, harpoon it, we start to get to see, like, the side of it and things like that. And this is an, a giant shark. It has got scars on it in some places, which shows that it's been in other fights.
This creature is, is worn. But the fact that we only get it in flashes is, as the Hollywood stories go, partially because they had trouble with the mechanics- Yes ... of this giant puppet shark, but also very effective. We slowly build this creature out of glimpses, and the scale and the concept start to balloon, especially now that we've got this boat that we're seeing it in perspective of.
The, the, the long shots showing us the boat to give us scale of our actors is a huge part of what makes this work because it means that the shark's sheer size is easy to understand and yet horrifying in, in context.
[00:37:39] Matthew: And it's used so well in the filming and the editing, and this is where we get some of what become really classic Spielberg-type shots.
Mm-hmm. Where we might get a little bit of the shark, but far more powerful is the sudden shot of somebody reacting, and we get Brody getting a glimpse of the shark and standing up straight on deck, wide-eyed, looking out at this shark. And then somebody in the background, we see Hooper reacting to the way that Brody is reacting.
Yes. So you have multiple layers telling us how we're, we should be feeling about this shark without a- the shark actually being in frame.
[00:38:17] Ian: You watch information ripple across the characters, and that means it ripples into you, the audience, like a wave.
in between fighting off this shark, we also get just bonding.
[00:38:33] Matthew: We do. We get a little more about Quint, for example. We get a little bit about, more about how crazy he is. Uh, there's a point- Yeah ... at which he refuses to let Brody call for help and destroys the radio because now it's a personal vendetta.
And yet we also get his story about his experience in the Navy.
[00:38:55] Ian: Yeah. He was on a, a World War II ship that sank.
[00:38:58] Matthew: Right.
[00:38:59] Ian: And he watched a bunch of the, uh, fellow crewmen be attacked by sharks as they were all waiting in the water.
[00:39:03] Matthew: He was on the USS Indianapolis. After it delivered the atomic bomb, it was sunk and hundreds of sailors were killed by sharks while awaiting rescue.
[00:39:16] Ian: They might not have been the original cause of death, but sharks swarmed the sailors and, and ate those who had been hurt or injured in the, the sinking already.
[00:39:28] Matthew: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:29] Ian: Becau- became easy prey for them. So there's a... That, that connection to real history is a fascinating moment.
[00:39:37] Matthew: And it's, it's another interesting bonding bit as part of the same, like it's, it's nightfall, the shark hasn't been seen in a while, they're having dinner and drinking Hooper and, uh, Quint start comparing scars.
Yes. And each of them have a fair number of scars because each of them have been in dangerous situations in different ways for different reasons. One, because he's a, was a sailor and is a shark hunter. The other because he's a marine biologist and oceanographer. But still-
[00:40:06] Ian: Mm-hmm ... they, and- It's, it's the little mo- one of them putting their leg up-
to show the scar, and the other guy putting his leg on top of the other guy's leg to show him the next one.
[00:40:16] Matthew: And you do see Quint gaining a little more respect for Hooper. Yes. He's not this guy with- He w- ... soft hands from a school somewhere.
[00:40:24] Ian: And you also see Brody, like, start to get frustrated with them, but join in after a moment.
[00:40:29] Matthew: Right.
[00:40:30] Ian: There's this little bit of like, "Oh, no. Why are you two bonding?" "
[00:40:36] Matthew: Oh, I don't have any fish bite scars to share."
[00:40:40] Ian: Exactly. "I don't like the water."
[00:40:41] Matthew: Right. "I probably have something from my time as a New York City cop, but that's not gonna be the same."
[00:40:47] Ian: Yeah. But the, the bonding makes the later moments, like the smashing of the radio, hit even harder.
Yes. Because these t- these people understand each other, and that means that, Quint going mad, that means Brody's animalistic revenge need.
[00:41:06] Matthew: Yes. And this, this bonding session they're having that night, it's interrupted by an attack from the shark, who's just- Mm-hmm
slamming into the hull of the ship and breaking it. And it's the beginning of the ultimate destruction of Orca, but it, it also reminds them, they're out here for a, a reason and they're confronting a monster. And during his talk about the, or at the close of his description of what happened with the sinking of the Indianapolis, Quint says, "I'll never put on a life jacket again," or, "I'll never, I'll never wear a life vest again."
Yeah. Later on, we know that things are getting serious when he actually finds life vests and gives one to Hooper and to, uh, to Brody. Doesn't put one on himself, though. Hmm.
[00:41:45] Ian: Doesn't put one on himself.
[00:41:46] Matthew: Like, "I'd rather drown than bob around and be ready to be a, a snack for a shark."
[00:41:50] Ian: Yeah. But during these scenes, we get these cutaways to the wood cracking and the water pouring in.
It's, it's chilling
[00:42:03] Matthew: And the rest of the shark hunt kind of plays out in a pretty straightforward way, in which we've got the additional barrels, we've got attempts and near, near opportunities to, uh, to injure or kill the shark that don't quite work.
[00:42:18] Ian: Yeah. A, a hypodermic needle spear-
[00:42:24] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:42:24] Ian: with a giant thing of strychnine.
[00:42:27] Matthew: Another thing that makes clear the fact that Quint realizes this is not like any other hunt he's been on, is when he starts asking about and taking seriously, Hooper's devices. Like, he's got a shark cage, and yeah, he's got this harpoon that he can use to poison the shark. And Quint points out, "You're not gonna get this little needle through the hide of that monster."
then Hooper says, "Yeah, if I go down in the cage, I can maybe get it into a mouth or an eye or something." And that's an incredibly brave offer or, or incre- Yeah ... decision by, by Hooper, and that too is, it's respected by Quint. He, Quint I think also thinks it's suicidal, but staying here is suicidal too- Mm-hmm
so he might as well.
[00:43:10] Ian: Yeah. The fact that Brody continues to be our, our audience surrogate, kind of watching these two figure this out is important there. Right. But Hooper is there risking his life, and they, they set up a, a spear full of the stuff.
[00:43:25] Matthew: They've got this harpoon, and they load it with the poison.
But they bring it down with the shark, cage in order to try to get it into a weak point. And yet the shark cage does not stand up to this 25-foot great white.
[00:43:38] Ian: No. He, this, the shark just starts bashing it until he bends the frame.
[00:43:42] Matthew: Right. And early on throughout this, uh, Hooper drops the harpoon.
Mm-hmm. So now he doesn't even have a chance to kill this shark. He just wants to survive it.
[00:43:51] Ian: So, but yeah, Hooper with his scuba tanks. He's gotta flee into like a cave of rocks and hope that the shark doesn't notice him.
[00:44:00] Matthew: And fortunately, the shark doesn't. The shark is now more interested in destroying this metal cage that is, attached to Orca, and continues the destruction of Orca by destroying its winch by pulli- pulling on this cage.
And, and eventually Quint and, uh, the Brody get the cage back up and Hooper's not in there.
[00:44:21] Ian: Yeah.
[00:44:21] Matthew: So they figure it's just the two of them now.
[00:44:24] Ian: They're, they're absolutely certain that Hooper is dead. And it's right then that the iconic moment of the shark just hopping up onto the boat-
[00:44:35] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:44:35] Ian: happens. Which is such an iconic moment.
Like the, the, the the shark that has just taken out the rear end of this boat and tipped the whole thing. It's like, like someone trying to get the last chips out of a bag.
[00:44:51] Matthew: And it's terrible how references go in both directions, but now as powerful as that scene is, I can't see that scene without thinking about Gang Beasts, the game.
[00:45:02] Ian: Yes.
[00:45:03] Matthew: The game. Which has essentially the boat with the shark who leaps up onto it level.
[00:45:08] Ian: Yeah, it, it, the yeah, this is, this is a moment parodied in a thousand things, referenced there, but it's also so effective. It's also where you can start seeing that the puppet is a little awkward.
[00:45:18] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:45:18] Ian: It's this giant just flapping mouth.
[00:45:22] Matthew: And if you just go with it and deal with the, uh, the, the cuts, keep that from being too obvious, but yeah, it's-
[00:45:28] Ian: Yeah. Well, the, the amount of stuff that was in the drawers of the Orca- ... starts becoming ridiculous as it's- Right ... slowing down, just to show objects get destroyed. But that also helps obfuscate the ending in a good way.
[00:45:43] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:45:44] Ian: We do get Quint kind of trying, like, uh, trying not to slide towards the shark 'cause he's there, and , Brody grabbing his hand and trying, but Quint slides in and is kicking at the shark and gets eaten.
[00:46:00] Matthew: Yeah. That's the end of Quint.
[00:46:03] Ian: That's the end of Quint. But there's this element of, like, you know, a final battle.
This shark hunter and the shark that finally took him out having this fight, and, I mean, it doesn't go well for Quint, but it's, it's dramatic and horrible.
[00:46:21] Matthew: And we haven't really talked about the gore in this movie, but it's a very gory movie from the very beginning.
[00:46:27] Ian: It is.
[00:46:27] Matthew: That very first shark attack, we didn't really see all that much, and yet we, uh, with the later attacks, we get to see more and more, and we see severed limbs drifting to the ocean floor.
And now we see lots of blood and gore as Quint is killed by this shark.
[00:46:48] Ian: Mm-hmm. A lot of red dye tossed in the water. Yeah. A lot of that, like, you know... Jaws, the iconic poster is the shark coming up from the bottom. But honestly, if you wanted to do a poster that fits the screen more, red... A, a red puddle in the water growing larger.
[00:47:11] Matthew: Yes.
[00:47:11] Ian: That, like, diffusing red blood into the water is so much more the image, 'cause we see that from the chum, from every attack of the, of the creature. That is almost m- the fin is the sign of it, of, of that it's coming, and the red is the sign that it did what it's here to do. Those two images are much more, much more impactful on the actual screen than the shark coming up that everyone mimics.
[00:47:39] Matthew: And those levels of gore in the movie, those are probably the main reasons why I was careful about, you know, not showing this to you when you were too little. The first time that I saw it was in its broadcast TV edit.
[00:47:51] Ian: Okay.
[00:47:52] Matthew: And that diminished the gore considerably. Oh. And yet, still, it was still a scary, horrible movie.
Hor- horrifying movie, incredibly well-made movie- Yeah ... but you know what I mean. So yeah, Quint, uh, is, suffers his end in the mouth of a shark as he seems he was destined to do. And it was almost as if Quint's life was, "I know what's gonna happen to me someday. I just need to get it m- uh, get as many of them as I can before one of them gets me."
[00:48:25] Ian: Yeah. There's a, there's an element there of his descriptions having been in the s- the sinking of the Indianapolis that has a very much like Quint died then and it only caught up with him now, kind of moment.
[00:48:39] Matthew: Right. And meanwhile, Brody has been, throughout this entire hunt, he's been the, the gofer and doesn't know anything about any of the techniques or equipment needed to, to kill sharks.
Uh, his best idea is he'll strap on his s- gun belt with his service revolver, as if that's gonna do a lot of good.
[00:48:59] Ian: Yeah. And he's also a man who doesn't like the water.
[00:49:04] Matthew: Right.
[00:49:05] Ian: So here he is now on a destroyed, sinking boat, climbing up the b- the... climbing up the structure to try to not... Like, climbing out the windows of the boat at weird angles just to try to keep away from the water so that the shark doesn't get him, and he's grabbing equipment as he goes.
[00:49:22] Matthew: And here is where we get the, the payoff for something that was telegraphed earlier on-
[00:49:29] Ian: Mm-hmm ...
[00:49:30] Matthew: which is the air tanks. There were some scuba tanks, that Hooper had, and he's used one of them. But early on when Brody pulls the wrong line and winds up spilling a bunch of stuff and knocking stuff around the boat before the shark shows up, Hooper tells him to be careful and how dangerous this is, and these air tanks can explode if you hit them in the wrong way.
So uh, Brody I think right after Quint is, devoured, shoves the remaining air tank into the jaw of the shark.
[00:50:01] Ian: Yeah. He, like, just throws it and th- and the shark just like, "Okay, ha."
[00:50:04] Matthew: And
[00:50:05] Ian: then it gets- And it's stuck in the side of his mouth.
[00:50:06] Matthew: Yes. But- "Is there anything in my teeth?"
Exactly.
[00:50:10] Ian: But that creates a classic video game boss weak spot.
[00:50:16] Matthew: Absolutely.
[00:50:17] Ian: And it's Brody there on top of the boat with a rifle trying to hit it, and he misses so many times.
Oh, that is painful
[00:50:30] Matthew: Shot after shot misses
[00:50:33] Ian: And I do love, though, that we get miss and we see the bullet fly, and we get all this time. Miss and miss, and then he finally hits and there is no pause. There is just ding, bam.
[00:50:46] Matthew: Yes
[00:50:47] Ian: Shark is gone
[00:50:49] Matthew: It's that sudden shock of this explosion with water and pieces of shark going everywhere
[00:50:54] Ian: Yeah.
You feel the sudden lurch of it all. Mm-hmm. It is one of... Like, I was surprised, 'cause I'd known of this shot. I knew of, like, a how do you defeat the shark from Jaws kind of, like, pop culture reference element. But it caught me off guard how sharp of a m- of a cinematic moment this is. Yeah This is the jump cut to end all sharks jump cut.
It is It is visceral in cinematography in a way I didn't expect. And the fact that it was still able to hit me even when I knew what was coming says something about how it was done. It's also right at the end.
[00:51:34] Matthew: Yes.
[00:51:35] Ian: It is shark goes boom, Hooper surfaces. Brody, "Oh, thank goodness you're not dead. Let's go home."
Film. There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of like, "Oh," coming in. It's like, "Shark's dead. Goodbye."
[00:51:52] Matthew: Absolutely no epilogue..
[00:51:54] Ian: No epilogue.
[00:51:55] Matthew: None whatsoever. And it is... It's still that monster movie trope. We finally found what's gonna kill this. If it's Frankenstein, there's like nothing we can do except trap it in a windmill and burn down the windmill.
It's a shar- this, this particular shark, there's nothing we can do except blow it up from the inside.
[00:52:14] Ian: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Matthew: We found the way of killing it.
[00:52:18] Ian: Which, but that lack of, that lack of like a release, like, you know, "The shark's dead, goodbye," also means that this film just kinda leaves you floating there- ... at the end.
In a very, in a very aquatic way. Yes. You know? You know, by the time, by the time the credits are rolling, you're still processing what just happened.
[00:52:42] Matthew: And there's not even a lot of credits. Being an older movie, we get the cast, and that's about it at the end. Yeah. Everything else was up front.
[00:52:49] Ian: I can just imagine, though, especially this being this, you know, first big blockbuster, the people still just sitting there with their popcorn in hand.
[00:52:57] Matthew: Oh, I'm sure.
[00:52:58] Ian: Just stunned and processing while the lights come on in the theater.
[00:53:02] Matthew: No need to persuade people to stay till the end of the credits for this movie.
[00:53:05] Ian: Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah. You know, once there's no more Jaws, there's no Jaws.
[00:53:15] Matthew: And yet, and yet.
[00:53:17] Ian: And yet, there is plenty of Jaws.
I think that's leading into our final questions.
[00:53:22] Matthew: I think it is. So listeners, please stay tuned for those final questions while we talk about our recommendations around this movie and what comes after. But in the meantime, if you are enjoying the Intermillennium Media Project, first of all, thank you very much for listening.
And if you wanna support us, please give us, uh, nice reviews and five stars wherever it is you get your podcasts. But also, please go to immproject.com. That's where you will find all of our back episodes, , 200 or so, including bonuses, and we're coming up on our 200th, podcast main episode. Oh my goodness.
And also, at immproject.com, you will find, ways to support the show. On our Patreon, you can support us and get even more bonus content. At our store, you can support the podcast and also get fun things like coffee mugs and T-shirts and notebooks and the like. And, uh, you can get those with the podcast logo, but also some things referencing favorite episodes like The Prisoner and Space 1999.
[00:54:23] Ian: Oh, yes.
[00:54:25] Matthew: And you can also contact us at immproject.com through our contact page or email or Blue Sky or Mastodon, and our Discord. So we would love to hear from you. What did you think of Jaws? What was the first summer blockbuster you remember? And, what impact did it have on you? And Ian, where can people find you?
[00:54:44] Ian: I can be found most places as ItemCrafting, ItemCrafting on Blue Sky or ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. I play games and make props, live on screen, chat, and have a fine time. recently I've been, making some more stuff from games that we've been completing to put up on our armory wall of, props and pieces.
I think I, uh, I played some Deltarune, and I'm gonna be putting up some new pieces soon.
[00:55:10] Matthew: It's kind of a Purple Rose of Cairo thing you have going on, where we've got the things in the video games, and next thing you know, they're sitting there in the lab with you.
[00:55:17] Ian: It kind of is. And Dad, where can they find you?
[00:55:21] Matthew: Well, you can look for ByMatthewPorter. So I'm ByMatthewPorter on Mastodon and Blue Sky and YouTube, where you'll find movie and movie theater reviews. but you can go to bymatthewporter.com and find links to all of those, as well as other things I'm doing. You can also find, at bymatthewporter.com, information about my book, Questions for the Dead, which is now available.
You can go to your local bookstore and ask them to order if it's not on their shelves, or you can buy it from your favorite online bookseller. And it's available as paperback and as an e-book. And it is a, a psychic mystery involving a Denver private investigator and his collection of, uh, unusually talented friends.
[00:56:03] Ian: Oh, yeah. It's, it's a fun time.
[00:56:09] Matthew: So
[00:56:10] Ian: So ...
[00:56:11] Matthew: this was a movie. Our first question, as always, is screen or no screen?
[00:56:19] Ian: This is so tricky because Jaws is a classic. Jaws was, I think had some excellent moments. Jaws is 124 minutes, and even for its pacing, I felt that was long. I'm just gonna be honest. I know that there's the whole thing of, oh, you know, attention spans and everything.
No. I feel like there are sections of Jaws that are too long. But I think it's a good movie. So I kinda wanna say screen, but I didn't expect Jaws to wind up in the fold some laundry category of like- ... background watch. Like, give yours- like don't, don't... For, even if it's the first blockbuster, I didn't feel like Jaws had glued me to the screen like some films do.
It's more of a tone piece.
[00:57:13] Matthew: It is, and I can understand that. I, I would say the f- by today's standards, the pacing could be tightened a bit. But I still absolutely say screen. If you need to fold laundry- Yeah ... during the first half, I get that. This is a movie I've never seen on a big screen in a theater, and I'd really like to because I want a chance to be immersed in this movie in that same way.
And pacing changes when you have that immersion. When- It does ... there's nothing here but to pay attention to the movie. And yet, uh, I th- I acknowledge those things, but I still say screen. It is still- Yeah ... a compelling and entertaining movie. Still some really good performances. Speaking of which, we, we talked about Roy Scheider and, uh, Richard Dreyfuss.
We didn't really talk about Robert Shaw, who plays Quint, and we saw him in, uh, Force 10 from Navarone.
[00:58:01] Ian: That was him.
[00:58:03] Matthew: A very different kind of character.
[00:58:06] Ian: Yeah.
I forgot about that part
I mean, talk about a, a, a change over time, but he does excellent work there.
[00:58:16] Matthew: And this is around the same time. I think it was just, uh, a year or two later that they made Force 10 From Navarone.
[00:58:22] Ian: Really? Uh, Force 10. No, this wa- Force 10 was three years later.
[00:58:32] Matthew: Yeah, it's three years later- Yeah ... that they made
[00:58:34] Ian: that.
Yeah. Wow, okay. Oh, my goodness.
That's impressive
[00:58:39] Matthew: So between the, iconic nature of this movie and the influence it had, the really good performances, and the fact that it, it's still a compelling story. And it is a monster movie in a very different kind of context. We're not used to seeing monster movies on bright, sunny beaches.
[00:58:55] Ian: No, we're not.
[00:58:56] Matthew: It's, it's interesting and worth watching. So I say screen.
[00:59:01] Ian: I agree.
[00:59:03] Matthew: And that, that leads us to the next question, which is revive, reboot, or rest in peace? Should there be a sequel to this movie?
[00:59:11] Ian: I mean, they blew up the shark. How could they ever do more? Jaws as a franchise has been- ... was followed by three sequels.
I don't know how.
[00:59:26] Matthew: It makes one wonder, doesn't it?
[00:59:28] Ian: Because also, three sequels, um, every single Jaws movie has a different director.
[00:59:38] Matthew: Yep.
[00:59:39] Ian: So it's Spielberg, but then it's three other people. And I'm not saying anything against these other directors, but I take it every single Jaws movie feels extremely different because of that?
I'm intrigued by the fact that Carl Gottlieb wrote the first three of these.
[00:59:55] Matthew: Yes. Benchley was not involved in the later movies, but it was Gottlieb and somebody else writing the second, , and the third.
[01:00:02] Ian: And it kept going, but this franchise lasted all the way till '87, which is also interesting 'cause I would've expected it to go even further, but there's only four films
We got Jaws 2, and then Jaws 3-D, and then Jaws: The Revenge
[01:00:22] Matthew: And Jaws 2 is the most direct sequel in that we still have Chief Brody
[01:00:27] Ian: Yeah. I take it Brody shows up in, The Revenge at least somehow, or at least referenced?
[01:00:35] Matthew: Oh. See, I've never seen that, so I don't know.
[01:00:39] Ian: Yeah. Oh, okay. So we've got, yeah, we've got Brody in Jaws 2, and then Ja- and then Jaws 3-D doesn't, uh
No. Um
Wait, Jaws 3D is Brody's younger brother. And then Jaws the Revenge is Lorraine Gary coming back as Elaine Brody because the shark is coming after Brody's family after he died.
[01:01:05] Matthew: It gets a little ridiculous.
[01:01:07] Ian: It gets ridiculous. If we kept this up, we would've had Jaws in space.
[01:01:12] Matthew: Oh, absolutely. But yeah, you've got essentially, what, the shark there with a notebook crossing names off it. I mean, come on.
[01:01:19] Ian: Come on. Um, so yeah, I kind of don't know why they tried to keep making sequels And I'm gonna say that this is a rest in peace
[01:01:34] Matthew: And one thing- Yeah ... I gotta say about Jaws: The Revenge.
[01:01:38] Ian: Okay.
[01:01:38] Matthew: That is where we get the movie promotional tagline, "This time it's personal."
[01:01:45] Ian: That's from there?
[01:01:47] Matthew: Yes. The oft-repeated, oft-mocked, "This time it's personal." That's from Jaws: The Revenge. And that's so 180 degrees from the original movie. It, the, the original movie was this is an eating machine.
It barely has a consciousness. There's nothing personal about this. It is just a horrific force of nature. And, you know, by Jaws: The Revenge, it's, you know, taking names literally.
[01:02:15] Ian: We're gonna be cutting to the shark and it's just got like Quint's name written on a fin crossed out through the middle.
[01:02:21] Matthew: Exactly.
[01:02:23] Ian: What in the world are we dealing with here?
It also says, it says something also that like apparently this is a family of sharks
[01:02:30] Matthew: Yeah. '
[01:02:31] Ian: Cause the first one's very gone.
[01:02:33] Matthew: Oh, yes, yes
[01:02:35] Ian: Interesting, like there's talk that Spielberg was ta- was asked to make a Jaws 2, and the version he wanted was like rejected.
[01:02:42] Matthew: Yeah?
[01:02:43] Ian: Yeah. Um...
[01:02:45] Matthew: I wonder if he worked with Benchley on that at all.
[01:02:47] Ian: It's hard to find too much, but there's some interviews that say that, you know, he wanted to do, a prequel about the attack on the Indianapolis.
Ah. To follow Quint's story more.
[01:02:59] Matthew: That would be fascinating. That'd be quite a movie.
[01:03:03] Ian: But- I take it it never got very far off the ground, so it's only small pieces.
[01:03:07] Matthew: Yeah. I have heard it described as, if you wanna know, what's wrong with American electoral politics, the mayor from Jaws 1 is still the mayor in Jaws 2.
[01:03:20] Ian: Oh, goodness. You're kidding me. Oh, no
Oh, no.
[01:03:29] Matthew: But yeah, it's this weird four movie... the third one was Jaws 3D
[01:03:34] Ian: Which is also like the Jaws franchise, the first movie is iconic and the rest became instant parody.
[01:03:42] Matthew: Yes
[01:03:43] Ian: the fact that in the Back to the Future movies, Jaws 19-
[01:03:48] Matthew: Yes ...
[01:03:49] Ian: joke. Also the fact that we live in an era where people online have made a, uh, a fan film of Jaws 19.
[01:04:00] Matthew: So- Um- ... my, my verdict about this movie is rest in peace It, it should rest in peace, and also why didn't you let it rest in peace?
[01:04:12] Ian: There's something about Jaws is a horror film without the Halloween horror aesthetics. Hmm. Yeah. And I think that has a wonderful place. Yes. This is gonna be weird. I'm gonna pull something from the video game industry- Yeah
and the video game culture more than the film culture here. I don't want more Jaws films, but I want people to clearly identify things as a Jaws-like. The same way a game can be called a Metroidvania because it's similar to games like Super Metroid and Castlevania. There are Jaws-like films.
[01:04:49] Matthew: Yeah.
[01:04:50] Ian: Godzilla Minus One is a Jaws interpretation of the Godzilla franchise.
I feel like there are other films that take the playbook of Jaws and the way to do horror that keeps it in the back of your mind and makes you deal with the people first, and the threat upon them as a separate thing.
[01:05:13] Matthew: And that disparity between the dark danger and the setting, like you're saying- Exactly
not, not having the Halloween aesthetic.
[01:05:20] Ian: Exactly. So I, like, if you wanted to do a Jaws collection, there's non-Jaws movies that fit better as a spiritual sequel, as a connected cinematic legacy to Jaws better than the Jaws sequels. And I think that's where we've- Yeah ... got more opportunity.
[01:05:40] Matthew: Here's an, here's a thought, and if you want examples of that, I would say the Twister movies are in some- Mm-hmm
respects a Jaws-like horror movie. I'm not elevating them in terms of, you know, them being movies that are as good as Jaws, but in terms of their structure, in terms of their approach to the diff- the different characters responding differently to this incredibly dangerous force of nature. It's that same kind of movie, and in some ways a horror movie.
[01:06:10] Ian: Yeah. I, I'm, I'm gonna just pitch an idea here. You could do a Jaws film set in Colorado with a mountain lion driven from its area from a wildfire-
[01:06:23] Matthew: Oh, yeah ...
[01:06:24] Ian: and a small mountain town very well.
[01:06:27] Matthew: Yep.
[01:06:28] Ian: And that tells you that the concept works. But yeah, it's like you can have this, this style still, still function, yeah.
I, I would love to see those. I'd love to see people take Jaws as an inspiration, n- not as a franchise. Well, where do you land? 'Cause I'm kind of doing a, a rest in peace, but take note.
[01:06:51] Matthew: Yeah, I would say it, it has been influential. It should still be influential, maybe in more interesting ways than it has been.
But for Jaws itself, rest in peace.
[01:06:59] Ian: Yeah.
[01:07:00] Matthew: Well, this has been fun. It's a fun way to kick off the summer. We're heading into 4th of July. We'll make sure the beaches stay open
[01:07:07] Ian: It is a good time to watch movies
[01:07:10] Matthew: And we'll be back to do more of that
[01:07:12] Ian: We shall.
[01:07:13] Matthew: So thank you for listening, and, join us again in a couple of weeks for more tales of media from the 20th century.
[01:07:20] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch
[00:00:23] Matthew: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the IMMP Podcast from the Inter Millennium Media Project. My name is Matthew Porter.
[00:00:31] Ian: And I'm Ian Porter.
[00:00:33] Matthew: I'm his dad, he's my son, and it's summertime again.
[00:00:38] Ian: It's summertime.
[00:00:40] Matthew: We've, we're h- past the beginning of summer. We're heading into 4th of July
So it's, it's time to enjoy the season
[00:00:50] Ian: It's time for a pair of landlocked podcasters to talk about going to the beach
[00:00:54] Matthew: Right.
We're gonna head to the, some of the, yeah, that wonderful Colorado oceanfront
[00:00:58] Ian: Exactly.
[00:01:00] Matthew: Yeah. We gotta wait till we talk about earthquake movies to really discuss that.
[00:01:04] Ian: Oh, absolutely. Wildfire movies But this is one that I'm amazed that isn't... This is an instance of a film I'm surprised is not in the you showed it to me before the podcast classics.
[00:01:22] Matthew: Yeah. I mean, there are s- there are... Just as I saw many movies when I was too young to really have seen them, uh, there were probably a few movies that I showed to you when you were a bit too young to be shown them.
[00:01:34] Ian: Probably.
[00:01:35] Matthew: This is a movie that I was cautious about and never really did get around to s- to, to showing to you or recommending to you before now.
[00:01:42] Ian: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Matthew: And this is the movie Jaws from 1975. No, no.
[00:01:51] Ian: No, no. Pop culture reference incoming. Yeah. This is... Oh, goodness. Jaws is one of those... I thi- I knew the entire film before we watched it-
[00:02:04] Matthew: Really? ...
[00:02:05] Ian: just purely based on, cultural osmosis. Like, more than I even expected I knew this film. I mean, it was the, the highest grossing film upon its release.
A 9 million budget turned into $500 million of revenue-
[00:02:26] Matthew: And this is a- ... in the
[00:02:26] Ian: box office.
[00:02:27] Matthew: This is a movie- It's, it's amazing ... that is credited with creating the very idea of- Mm-hmm ... the summer blockbuster movie. It was this- That is so wild ... everybody who saw it, many people went to see it multiple times in the movie theaters.
It stayed in theaters for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks, months. And it was, like, all anybody could talk about for so long.
[00:02:51] Ian: Oh, my word. It
[00:02:52] Matthew: took over the culture.
[00:02:56] Ian: That's so wild, but it also makes sense. I grew up in a post-Jaws cinematic environment. It's the idea of, the summer blockbuster was already so established.
So the idea that there is a pre-Jaws, pre-blockbuster, and pre-blockbuster- ... RIP blockbuster. Uh, but the idea that there's a, there's, like, an era before that is kinda wild. It's one of those moments of, really makes you think about it.
[00:03:27] Matthew: And before Jaws, there were popular and influential movies, but none with the, uh, the cultural clout that this had.
And after this movie, in 1977, Star Wars comes along. And as interesting and innovative and good as Star Wars was-
[00:03:45] Ian: Mm-hmm ...
[00:03:46] Matthew: one of the things I believe contributed to its success was the fact that after Jaws, people were looking for the next blockbuster movie for the summer. Yeah. And Star Wars fit the bill.
[00:03:57] Ian: It's fascinating, though, because Jaws- is a horror film?
[00:04:05] Matthew: Yes. You can look at it a- in a few ways, a thriller, but, uh, it, it is a horror film. It is a monster movie.
[00:04:13] Ian: Yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a monster film, which is what we'd expect nowadays to be an October thing. Not, not a summer thing. Right. But it's the summer blockbuster, which is more because of theme.
Just, uh, very thematic in that sense.
[00:04:26] Matthew: It is, and also the plot. Jaws hinges around 4th of July, Independence Day.
[00:04:32] Ian: Yes.
[00:04:32] Matthew: The holiday, and the tension between wanting to admit there is a danger and deal with the danger appropriately.
[00:04:42] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:43] Matthew: And the problem of admitting to this danger and dealing with it is going to have adverse financial consequences for some of the people affected.
[00:04:57] Ian: Yeah.
[00:04:58] Matthew: It's... Gee, is there anything in the 21st century we can see that as metaphors for? Half a dozen- Yeah ... things maybe?
[00:05:04] Ian: Half a dozen things. Jaws is a horror film about a giant shark. It is also a very, very deep- hu- study of humanity.
[00:05:16] Matthew: Yes.
[00:05:18] Ian: And those two films both happen, but I will not say that they happen concurrently.
This is a film that is very much one story and then a second story. There is a distinct line in the middle of Jaws.
[00:05:32] Matthew: Right. We get different acts and they, the, the pivot to the style and the tone and everything else is so dramatic at those pivots.
[00:05:40] Ian: Oh, absolutely.
[00:05:42] Matthew: And also, it's, it's gotta be mentioned, this is what really, uh, elevated Steven Spielberg to-
[00:05:49] Ian: Mm-hmm
[00:05:50] Matthew: like the American movie director for, for so many years. And he had done a lot of interesting things before that, cut his teeth in television and, done some things in film. But creating this movie and, um, it-- We already see so many of the things that are
trademarks of Steven Spielberg movies throughout the '80s
[00:06:13] Ian: Yeah. But, well, we also need to acknowledge Jaws is not a wholly original film. It is an adaptation.
[00:06:22] Matthew: Yes.
[00:06:23] Ian: It is an adaptation of a book by Peter Benchley Adapted by Peter Benchley and Carl Gottlieb?
[00:06:34] Matthew: Yes. Peter Benchley- Mm ... wrote the first couple of drafts and then Gottlieb, screenwriter, re- rewrote it, including while they were filming.
So they have co-screenwriting credits on this. But Benchley wrote the f- the solid first drafts based upon his book. And his book, the, the book Jaws, was itself a best seller and a cultural phenomenon.
[00:06:53] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:54] Matthew: So people were waiting for the movie version as well.
[00:06:57] Ian: Oh, yeah. Uh, but that, that's very important because it means Jaws didn't just come out of nowhere.
This story has that extra polish and it has a, a literary core, which changes how it's done. It means that Jaws the movie has some more stage theatrical elements than you'd expect. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:17] Matthew: And enough of a narrative structure to allow it to stand up to those changes we talked about when it pivots from one kind of a movie to another.
[00:07:24] Ian: Mm-hmm. But it starts out just with the beach town of Amity Island.
And a young woman being pulled under water in a late night swim And killed. The m- first thing is the monster attack. The first things on screen. Oh my goodness.
[00:07:45] Matthew: And it's interesting that, and this might be just Hollywood marketing and such, but at the beginning of the movie we get that typical, often unfortunate horror movie trope of connecting sexuality and violent death.
[00:08:01] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:01] Matthew: In that we've got the young man and young woman flirting, and she's running to the beach and discarding her clothes as she goes before she jumps in the water. It's all shot very dark, but the impression is that she's got rid of all of her clothes by the time she's gotten in the water.
[00:08:15] Ian: Yeah,
[00:08:15] Matthew: And this is borne out by the poster for Jaws, which has the shark under the water, and we see a woman swimming on the surface, and everything is obscured because of the way the water is splashing from her swimming, but it's clear the way the poster is painted that she is not clothed.
[00:08:32] Ian: Yeah.
[00:08:33] Matthew: And there is, there's, there's that, as I say, that common horror movie trope of, of com- taking these two aspects of experience and combining them. And yet that's not something that the movie carries on further. Some horror movies throughout the '80s and earl- and late '70s, the whole point was, well, , if you express sexuality, you deserve to be horribly murdered.
Um, now, but Jaws starts out with that and it's, it's almost as if it has to get it out of the way. Like somebody at the studio said, "We have to do this," they said, "Fine," and then they moved on with the story.
[00:09:05] Ian: Yeah. I will also say, though, later parts of Jaws directly deal with the concept of humanity's, not thinking past its base instincts.
[00:09:17] Matthew: Yes.
[00:09:18] Ian: Sexuality, but also, violence or revenge. There is an element of we've grown past that, but there's also an analysis of, blind action is a path to danger throughout all of Jaws.
[00:09:34] Matthew: Yes.
[00:09:36] Ian: Which means that they got the, the most common cinematic version of that out of the way, but that sets a precedent that we see other characters repeat with different follies.
[00:09:49] Matthew: And they start early on when, when , they're looking into everything they c- they can learn about sharks. They raise the fact that nobody really knows how old sharks are, at least in the '70s. Nobody really knows how old sharks are or how long they have been around on Earth. They, they highlight the fact that sharks are a primal force- And a, and a perfect eating machine.
And as humans have to confront and deal with it, the humans become more and more primal. Kind of meet the shark where it is.
[00:10:23] Ian: Yes. So We get that initial connection to use for there.
[00:10:30] Matthew: And it sets us up in a story with some very basic character tropes. Our central- Mm ... character is Chief Brody, the police chief, recently hired police chief on Amity Island. It's his first summer. He's from New York City, where he was a cop and thought he was overwhelmed, he really can't make a difference.
But in a place like Amity, which is low crime but needs a police force, he can make a difference. But he is an outsider, and they're never g- really going to accept him as an islander.
[00:11:01] Ian: The first things we get is him trying to, uh, fix his accent.
[00:11:08] Matthew: Yes.
[00:11:09] Ian: Which I'm just going to make a callback right now after the, after our last episode, all being about a character with a horrible accent the entire time.
It caught me off guard in a way I wasn't expecting. That's just the, the juxtaposition of IMMP episodes causing strange ripples through media.
[00:11:30] Matthew: We're waiting for the, uh, the Chief Brody, uh, Jacques Clouseau, uh, crossover.
[00:11:36] Ian: I'm here about a shark.
[00:11:38] Matthew: A shark?
[00:11:47] Ian: A shark?
[00:11:49] Matthew: Yeah. Exactly. Oh. And we've got Roy Scheider and he is a, an actor we've seen in other things. We saw 2010 for the podcast a few years ago, and he's in that.
[00:11:58] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:59] Matthew: And he's s- such a good actor, and this, um, this was a good role for him.
[00:12:03] Ian: Oh, yeah. , He's our, our first protagonist, but he is a, a strong force to keep the entire story going because it is off of him that we get the first indications of everyone else. It's through the comparison and the interaction with him that everyone else gets contextualized.
[00:12:19] Matthew: Right. And he's a good, uh, a good surrogate for us, a good proxy for us as the audience because he is an outsider. He's learning about the place just as we are. He is not necessarily in sync with all the people that he needs to deal with. He is not a person who's filled with courage. He is a person who knows what's right and will do what, what it takes to do what's right.
But he's afraid of the water, and , his first instincts, his first actions are very direct in order to protect people and himself. There's this shark attack, and they find the remains of the woman from that first, scene, not much left of her, and -- It's clearly a shark attack.
And Brody wants to close the beaches until they can find, uh, this shark.
[00:13:00] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:00] Matthew: And of course, the mayor absolutely can't, can't allow that because this is a summer town. It makes all of its money in the summer. Fourth of July is, is coming up in a week, and it is its biggest day of the whole year. Essentially, the town would be ruined if it has to go an entire summer with everybody being afraid to swim, and yet there's a shark out there that has eaten someone and is going to eat more people, and that's the, well, the, the basic conflict of the first half of the movie.
[00:13:34] Ian: So immediately that's, yeah, that's our tension. The mayor wants to push back for the sake of the town, and the town is with the mayor to start out
[00:13:42] Matthew: Absolutely
[00:13:44] Ian: Which means that this outsider new police chief is even more pushed outside
The coroner kind of pressured into saying the mayor is right. But eventually the evidence can't be ignored.
[00:13:58] Matthew: Right. Initially they're changing, uh, Brody's initial report of probable cause of death shark attack to probable cause of death boating accident.
[00:14:08] Ian: Yeah.
[00:14:10] Matthew: And as is said in the movie later on, this was no boating accident.
[00:14:14] Ian: Yes. But then a young boy is killed and we have two victims.
[00:14:20] Matthew: Yes. You
[00:14:20] Ian: can't ignore that.
[00:14:21] Matthew: They actually go there. They have the boy eaten by a shark.
[00:14:27] Ian: Yeah.
[00:14:28] Matthew: I'm usually, you know, that kind of danger to little kids is a nope, I'm, I'm out.
Mm-hmm. And yet, as horrible, as horrible as it is in this movie, it's needed to propel the story, and it's needed to, to show the stakes for what they are. And
They emphasize the fact that there are so many kids in the water here. Mm-hmm. There's so many little kids, uh, on the beaches at, at Amity Island, that it could've been any one of them, and it happened to be this, uh, this boy.
And- Yeah ... then finally, the, the town is taking seriously the fact that this is, there, there's a shark out there. And yet they still don't wanna take the steps that are, that are truly necessary. And their, their idea is to, to have a $3,000 bounty on whoever catches the shark. And that just leads to a horrible circus of both islanders and a lot of people from outside coming in with everything from, harpoons to dynamite, getting out there on little boats trying to catch this shark.
[00:15:35] Ian: Which shows the next of our kind of like, you know, there's people out there driven now by greed.
[00:15:40] Matthew: Yes.
[00:15:41] Ian: Is our ne- is like the follies of man in Jaws. The bounty and the chaos this causes. And we watch Brody go from the police chief that no one wants to deal with to the overwhelmed police chief trying to wrangle this entire event is such a shark...
A, a sharp contrast, a shark contrast. It, it's, it's very effective at just, like, "Oh, wow, that's, it's a lurch."
[00:16:10] Matthew: Yeah. They were in the process of gearing up for the big influx of outsiders for the holiday, and now they've got this- ... huge immediate influx of dangerous outsiders trying to catch this shark.
[00:16:24] Ian: Yeah.
But the town's a little happy that people are coming in.
[00:16:28] Matthew: Yeah, I guess it's, it is bringing in some money, and they figure with this many people hunting for the shark, eventually they're gonna find it. And yeah. Yeah. Somebody catches a shark. Somebody catches a big shark. Yeah.
[00:16:39] Ian: Yeah, a big tiger shark.
[00:16:41] Matthew: Yeah.
And here, at this point, the oceanographer the shark expert from the Oceanography Institute- has shown up, and that's played by Richard Dreyfuss. Another character- Yeah ... we've seen before. Somebody he, continued to work with Spielberg because he was in Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
[00:16:59] Ian: Yes.
[00:17:00] Matthew: And He and Brody agree far more than anybody else agrees with each other. Well- In that-
[00:17:06] Ian: Mm ...
[00:17:06] Matthew: yeah, this was a, a... The shark attacks were done by a really, really big shark, most likely a great white. And- this shark that these guys caught, this is not the shark that did these attacks.
[00:17:21] Ian: No. It is interesting that we have here our, second of the protagonist trio coming in as the shark expert, and their response is to just kind of continue to say that this is what sharks do. He's there opening up the sha- the, the, a shark and finding all of these things to try to prove that the tiger shark isn't the one that killed, the swimmers.
And it's like he's pulling out license plates and all sorts of stuff. Sharks are just shown to be these terrifying, vicious things that will kill you on instinct. It is it's, it's very anti-shark propaganda- ... in many ways. And the fact that they give that to a cl- to our expert is setting up the sharks as more of a, a horror creature than a natural creature.
[00:18:15] Matthew: Right. And there are people who actually study sharks who hate this movie- Yes ... uh, because of how much it, uh... It wasn't inaccurate in that how dangerous sharks can be. Mm-hmm. But the idea that the sharks exist to eat people. Mm. No, they really don't care about that, and they don't usually hang out where people do.
If they happen to, then yeah, it can be bad news.
[00:18:42] Ian: This is, this is a completely side thing, but, uh In, in a weird way, Jaws becoming more real than it had because recent, relatively recent studies have found sharks testing positive for, um, caffeine, painkillers, and drugs in the areas where certain yachts are popular.
[00:19:03] Matthew: Sharks on drugs.
[00:19:03] Ian: In the modern era. Which, which feels like leading to, like, we're creating Jaws in ways we're not supposed to. Yeah.
[00:19:10] Matthew: Yes. That's gonna be Sharknado 8: Sharks on drugs.
[00:19:15] Ian: Yeah. Exactly. But there's no explanation for why the shark in Jaws is like this. This is the closest we get, which is because shark.
[00:19:27] Matthew: Right, and they would... The way they present it, they, this tiger shark that they caught, and eventually, even though the mayor does not wanna open this up because he doesn't want any evidence contrary to the idea that this is the shark that- Mm-hmm ... has been killing people, therefore it's fine to open on, uh, the holiday.
Instead, um, you know, they open it up and they portray the tiger shark as, well, tiger sharks are the garbage men of the sea. That's why they've got all this weird stuff, but not the remains of the people who were attacked. So we know it wasn't this shark. But then they also portray the great white that they're really going after as, it really is this territorial monster.
It has found this place, the, the, the beach and the harbor at Amity Island, and the eating is good here, so it will not leave. The only options are we abandon this place to it, or we hunt and kill the monster.
[00:20:22] Ian: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Matthew: The only options. Classic monster movie conundrum.
[00:20:26] Ian: Classic monster movie conundrum.
[00:20:28] Matthew: And even after Hooper and Brody go out, having drunk too much, and l- looking for the shark, 'cause it's a night feeder, and instead finding the, the battered remains of a boat that was destroyed by the shark, apparently, and some of its teeth that prove this is a giant great white. Even after they come back with that evidence, the mayor still doesn't wanna believe it, doesn't accept it.
They dropped the tooth, so he can't show that to the mayor, and the mayor wants to, uh, go ahead and open the beaches for 4th of July.
[00:21:00] Ian: Yeah. 'Cause the mayor's, the mayor's goal is just for the town, for the town.
[00:21:05] Matthew: Right. For the town based upon the criteria that he and the townspeople are focused on, which is their, their economic survival.
[00:21:15] Ian: Yeah. Which puts a little bit of a weird parallel between the mayor and the shark at times.
There's this territory battle of the thing that wants to... There, some of the descriptions at times of, like, the people that'll come in-
[00:21:33] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:21:34] Ian: has this, like, feeding frenzy, like, talk from the mayor about the town and what it needs money-wise. And they keep putting the, mayor in these, like, blue suit jackets and white shirts with, like, like the anchor pattern.
I'm thinking that it's like they put him in shark colors.
[00:21:57] Matthew: Oh, you're right. Interesting. Very nautical and very shark-like.
[00:22:00] Ian: Yeah. So there's this parallel of those two.
[00:22:05] Matthew: And it's such a great set of shots as they're setting up the beginning of the Fourth of July holiday, and the beaches are getting so crowded. And we see ferry after ferry after ferry full of people show up on the island. Mm-hmm. And having established what we have, it's hard for me to look at those shots and not think of, "Oh, this is all food."
Yes. This is all bait for the shark. The shark is gonna have a great time because they're doing exactly what it needs.
[00:22:35] Ian: We, we got to see earlier when the people were all hunting for the shark for the, for a bounty, these shots of all these little ships sailing out and this chaos in the water as they drop chum and everything else.
And now we see boats come in, and they l- Some of the shots with the water, partially because of just the technology, but they're filmed a little similarly at times.
[00:22:57] Matthew: Yes. Yes, indeed.
[00:22:59] Ian: It's like, oh.
[00:23:01] Matthew: So we've got all of these people crowding the beaches. We've got Brody and Hooper knowing that there is an incredibly dangerous monster out there who's just looking for exactly what you're giving it.
[00:23:13] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:14] Matthew: And just in case we weren't already against the mayor and thought he was misguided, the mayor is not content to have the beaches open. Nobody's going in the water because there have been two shark attacks. They'll hang out on the beach, but they're not going in the water. And the mayor is going around persuading people, and in some cases kind of strong-arming them, into go out into the water.
"We gotta get this going. We gotta have people enjoy themselves for the summer to work." So he is insisting people go into harm's way.
[00:23:47] Ian: Yep.
[00:23:49] Matthew: And the predictable happens. Well, the predictable happens in an unpredictable way.
[00:23:54] Ian: Yeah.
[00:23:55] Matthew: Because we get another glimpse at another part of human nature here as well.
[00:24:00] Ian: Oh, yeah
[00:24:01] Matthew: because in addition to the beaches being open, we also have Every, seasonal deputy from the police department, and I think we've got Coast Guard spotters and helicopters. We've got all of these people in boats and helicopters and s- and watchtowers watching for sharks.
And that too- Mm-hmm ... is giving kind of an oppressive feel to the whole thing. And then there's a sighting of a shark
[00:24:24] Ian: Yep ...
[00:24:25] Matthew: a giant fin, and there's a panic as people scramble out of the water, and that is, is itself dangerous.
[00:24:34] Ian: Mm-hmm. And you can kind of feel the entirety of this, you know, the, the mayor's going around building this thing, and it all starts to crumble right then.
That's when you see the system break for that moment.
[00:24:47] Matthew: Yes. And yet that wasn't a shark.
[00:24:51] Ian: No.
[00:24:52] Matthew: It was a couple of kids with a cardboard fin swimming around.
[00:24:56] Ian: Yeah.
[00:24:56] Matthew: And taking advantage of this opportunity to make something happen by scaring people. Stupid kid stuff, but with, with- Yeah
serious consequences.
[00:25:06] Ian: But the fact that, the fact that the tension was high enough that the kids were able to break it
[00:25:11] Matthew: Yes. And yet at the, at the same time, there, there's also the, a little like pond or estuary
And Brody has insisted that that's where his kids play because the beach is too dangerous. And there are some people out there in boats and such. And it turns out that's where the shark is. The shark- Yeah ... has come back. As everybody was distracted by the kids' prank over on the main beach, the shark has made it into the estuary.
[00:25:37] Ian: And it attacks there and nearly kills Brody's son.
[00:25:41] Matthew: Right. He does get somebody else.
[00:25:44] Ian: Yes.
[00:25:44] Matthew: And Brody's son is in shock. Oh, yes he does. Yeah, there's one guy on a boat, and the kids are on their little sailfish, messing about, having fun. And, there's a, there's a, a guy and his boat is between the shark and them.
[00:25:59] Ian: His son nearly get, like, like, his son getting hurt. Yeah. Not killed, but just hurt- He gets hurt and he's in shock ... is kind of such a shock.
[00:26:06] Matthew: Yeah. And he, um-
[00:26:07] Ian: Yeah, you kind of remember the panic and you remember that attack, but the piece is, like, you f- you get caught up in it all.
[00:26:13] Matthew: Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and, and Brody's son is in the hospital overnight, and, and Brody realizes, okay...
And even, even the mayor at this point, the mayor is stunned and in shock, and Brody convinces the mayor to sign this voucher so I can hire a real shark hunter.
[00:26:32] Ian: Because the, I mean, and because there's, there's plenty in the area. They've, they've come because he placed that bounty, and some haven't, uh, some left information, but there was one guy.
[00:26:41] Matthew: There's one guy we saw earlier at the beginning, at the early town meeting where the mayor posts the $3,000 reward. Quint.
[00:26:52] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:52] Matthew: Mr. Quint, who is a shark hunter, and he is this grizzled old guy. He gets the attention of the noisy meeting at the beginning just by dragging his nails across a chalkboard.
[00:27:04] Ian: Ugh.
[00:27:06] Matthew: Which is another thing that goes back to, um, or is, is cited in, uh, one of the Pink Panther movies we, we saw.
[00:27:15] Ian: Oh, yes it is, isn't it?
[00:27:16] Matthew: The torture scene with the super villain, Chief Inspector Dreyfus, not Richard Dreyfuss. Saying, "Yeah, bring her to the school room," which is- Oh, yes
this place. And he puts on this big steel claw, but all he does is drag it across a chalkboard.
[00:27:31] Ian: Yeah. Uh, honestly, they, uh, the fact that the audio clipped out in Jaws- ... trying to record the nails on a chalkboard is almost more terrifying. 'Cause, like, the first thing you get Quint doing is not m- minding causing pain to an entire room of people.
[00:27:47] Matthew: Yes.
[00:27:48] Ian: There's this element of like, you know, "I don't care about any of you. Pay me 10K and I'll go kill a shark."
[00:27:55] Matthew: Yeah. You want this done, you hire somebody to do it. You don't just put this half-baked bounty of $3,000. I, you hire me to kill the shark, I will find and kill the shark. It's gonna to cost you $10,000.
And the mayor says, "We'll take that under advisement." That's it.
[00:28:09] Ian: Yeah. But now, uh, the mayor pays Quint.
[00:28:12] Matthew: Right. Half a day- And they've got him ... he signs the thing and, and that's where the movie shifts to a completely different movie.
[00:28:18] Ian: Absolutely. Uh, the first part, and I, I wanna say the first part is longer than the second, I think.
[00:28:23] Matthew: Might be.
[00:28:25] Ian: Okay, I'm gonna be very honest. It's
[00:28:26] Matthew: a, it's a slower
[00:28:27] Ian: build,
[00:28:27] Matthew: certainly. Yeah.
[00:28:27] Ian: It's a slower build, but there is a lot of, there's a lot of walking and talking. There's a lot of just staged, stage-like scenes in this.
[00:28:37] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:28:38] Ian: Jaws is a very, very slow build in that first half, partially because it's trying to make the point of how aggravating it is to get these people in authority to listen to the danger.
[00:28:51] Matthew: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:52] Ian: They've got to take time to establish the folly- But it is also just slower.
[00:29:03] Matthew: Yeah. And you need that because the whole thing is about people dragging their feet and not wanting to acknowledge what has to be done. Yeah, that's not gonna be a fast-paced kind of storytelling, and yet it's vital for the movie.
[00:29:15] Ian: It is. It's, it's part of what n- like even if I hadn't been able to look that up and know, I could have guessed that Jaws was based on a book because that adaptation felt so, so stage theater in terms of its positioning, in terms of its acting. It's actually once we get onto the boat that some of the more dramatic and experimental, more Alfred Hitchcock-y camera work and such- Yeah
really comes into play.
[00:29:47] Matthew: And we talk about this as being the first summer blockbuster. It is so much more dialogue-heavy than summer blockbusters as we now tend to think of them. Partly because- Yes ... summer blockbusters now need to have a global reach, and the less- Mm-hmm ... the less dialogue-heavy they are, the easier that is to do, and the more action-oriented they are.
But, but this was very dialogue-heavy, especially in that first half.
[00:30:09] Ian: Yeah.
[00:30:10] Matthew: But now we shift to, come back to Quint, and he's the person being hired by Brody. So it's Brody and Hooper, who's still around- Yep ... the, the shark expert. Mm-hmm. They are going out on the ocean with Quint in Quint's boat, Orca, to hunt a shark.
And, and Quint is this horrible old man. He's not that old. When I first saw this, he seemed ancient. He's this horrible, grizzled old man who delights in causing physical and emotional discomfort for other people.
[00:30:43] Ian: Yes.
[00:30:43] Matthew: He's just nothing. He's always drinking horrible stuff.
[00:30:46] Ian: He's just not a fun guy. There's, there, there's an excellent moment that kind of establishes these two characters of Quint and Hooper where Quint is there on the back of the boat just leaning back with his, with his giant rod trying to, like, uh, bait the shark.
And we just watch him drink an entire can of beer while keeping eye contact with Hooper and then crush the can. And Hooper just keeping eye contact back, finishes his, like, solo cup of, I think- And then- ... like, and crush that and drinks his whole- Crushes the
[00:31:18] Matthew: plastic cup as if it's the same feat as the steel can.
[00:31:21] Ian: It's so much less effect- impactful. But there's that element of, like, Quint is, is here just like, "I'm the toughest guy in the room, and I won't take anything no for it. I'm here," kind of a gruff, grizzled person. Hooper is just- I'm here because I enjoy the ocean. He's paid for a bunch of the equipment, but he's fascinated by the, the nature of it all.
And Brody's just a bundle of my son's in the hospital, people are hurt, kill this thing nerves.
[00:31:51] Matthew: Yes. And, and we've established, I mean, Quint lives in his, like, boathouse business that's covered in shark jaws that he's selling, bones that he sells to people and takes people out on, on, uh, on expeditions for fishing.
[00:32:07] Ian: Yeah.
[00:32:08] Matthew: Hooper, we've established, he w- he grew up as a, a, a rich kid. He's-
[00:32:15] Ian: Yeah ...
[00:32:15] Matthew: the reason he's an oceanographer and, and a biologist and obsessed with sharks is that a shark destroyed the powerboat that he was given for his 13th birthday, and he's been able to buy all the equipment himself that he needs for his current work.
So they come from such different worlds, Quint and Hooper, and they don't have a lot of respect for each other, and yet they respect each other in, in a weird way. They- Yeah ... it's almost as if they don't- They don't have a lot of respect from the respective worlds from which they come, and yet they ultimately have a certain amount of respect for each other as people, certainly in a way that develops over time.
[00:32:57] Ian: Mm-hmm. We get to see that build and change over time.
[00:33:01] Matthew: Quint is, very dismissive and, , derogatory towards all of the techniques and technology and equipment and things that Hooper has. And Hooper is, dismissive of the fact that all... Quint thinks that a scowl and his experience is all he needs, and of course he needs more than that.
[00:33:20] Ian: A- and we see the t- like it's kind of interesting that Brody gets sh- shunted out of this because- ... yeah, Quint and Hooper become a buddy pair, where Quint is there like, "Ah, this fancy stuff, we don't need it." And then when the chips are down, Quint is very much like, "Use the this, use the that." "Use the tech."
[00:33:40] Matthew: Yeah. He's, he is still the us. He's still the audience member in the movie saying, "No, don't go in the basement."
[00:33:47] Ian: Yeah. Uh, but... And, and Hooper is like, you know, "Can't just make this through with a scowl and a tough attitude." But then when things go wrong, Hooper is trying his dangdest, hopping over stuff, being a physical man of action to make things happen.
[00:34:05] Matthew: Yes, because he might not be a professional shark hunter, but he knows sharks and he is an extremely capable seaman.
[00:34:13] Ian: Yes. And th- that, yeah, that, you know, two different directions arriving to the same place respect- Yeah ... as you were describing very much here. And they, encounter the shark pretty quickly actually.
[00:34:26] Matthew: Right. The, uh, the, the monster hunt, which is the second part of the movie, it is repetitive- Mm-hmm ... yet, yet it, it's, uh, repetitive in a way that maintains tension and works very well. Because, yeah, it doesn't take- Qui- qui- ... long for them to encounter the shark.
[00:34:43] Ian: Quite literally on the line it maintains tension because they pinned it with a, a, uh, a harpoon line and, like, a tracker barrel And try to be able to like, you know, get an e- get eyes on this and follow it wherever it goes.
But the shark's clever.
[00:35:01] Matthew: It is.
[00:35:02] Ian: It's, it's, it dodges and weaves and goes under the boat, and all of their attempts at tracking it start to fail.
[00:35:10] Matthew: And I don't know that we mentioned this earlier, but it's critical here in that the first part of the movie, we see the shark very, very little.
[00:35:17] Ian: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:18] Matthew: We see its attack more from a, the victim's point of view.
We see little glimpses of it. We start to see more and more of it, but it is this mysterious thing out there that we d- don't even know how to confront. Here in this second half of the movie, we see more and more and more of it, where it now, it is a force, a monster to be confronted.
[00:35:40] Ian: Yes.
[00:35:41] Matthew: And yeah, they, Quint's, at first, they sort of escalate how they're attempting to deal with it.
First they hook it on a deep sea fishing line on Orca, and Quint is trying to, to fight it in from his, uh, his chair. And eventually it bites right through the line. Mm-hmm. And yet it shows, like you're saying, it's smart. It, it shows some tactics in terms of how it's dealing with being on this line. So that doesn't work.
And then they're using the barrels where they're harpooning it with, big yellow floats- Mm-hmm ... trying to tire it out by keeping it from going underwater and having it, forcing it to drag these barrels, and they get a barrel on it. But later they get a second and a third barrel. And also they get a, a close enough look at this shark as it comes up alongside Orca to see how incredibly big it is.
This is a 25-foot shark.
[00:36:33] Ian: Yeah. 'Cause before we got fin and we got teeth, and then as they start to be able to, like, hook it or, uh, you know, harpoon it, we start to get to see, like, the side of it and things like that. And this is an, a giant shark. It has got scars on it in some places, which shows that it's been in other fights.
This creature is, is worn. But the fact that we only get it in flashes is, as the Hollywood stories go, partially because they had trouble with the mechanics- Yes ... of this giant puppet shark, but also very effective. We slowly build this creature out of glimpses, and the scale and the concept start to balloon, especially now that we've got this boat that we're seeing it in perspective of.
The, the, the long shots showing us the boat to give us scale of our actors is a huge part of what makes this work because it means that the shark's sheer size is easy to understand and yet horrifying in, in context.
[00:37:39] Matthew: And it's used so well in the filming and the editing, and this is where we get some of what become really classic Spielberg-type shots.
Mm-hmm. Where we might get a little bit of the shark, but far more powerful is the sudden shot of somebody reacting, and we get Brody getting a glimpse of the shark and standing up straight on deck, wide-eyed, looking out at this shark. And then somebody in the background, we see Hooper reacting to the way that Brody is reacting.
Yes. So you have multiple layers telling us how we're, we should be feeling about this shark without a- the shark actually being in frame.
[00:38:17] Ian: You watch information ripple across the characters, and that means it ripples into you, the audience, like a wave.
in between fighting off this shark, we also get just bonding.
[00:38:33] Matthew: We do. We get a little more about Quint, for example. We get a little bit about, more about how crazy he is. Uh, there's a point- Yeah ... at which he refuses to let Brody call for help and destroys the radio because now it's a personal vendetta.
And yet we also get his story about his experience in the Navy.
[00:38:55] Ian: Yeah. He was on a, a World War II ship that sank.
[00:38:58] Matthew: Right.
[00:38:59] Ian: And he watched a bunch of the, uh, fellow crewmen be attacked by sharks as they were all waiting in the water.
[00:39:03] Matthew: He was on the USS Indianapolis. After it delivered the atomic bomb, it was sunk and hundreds of sailors were killed by sharks while awaiting rescue.
[00:39:16] Ian: They might not have been the original cause of death, but sharks swarmed the sailors and, and ate those who had been hurt or injured in the, the sinking already.
[00:39:28] Matthew: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:29] Ian: Becau- became easy prey for them. So there's a... That, that connection to real history is a fascinating moment.
[00:39:37] Matthew: And it's, it's another interesting bonding bit as part of the same, like it's, it's nightfall, the shark hasn't been seen in a while, they're having dinner and drinking Hooper and, uh, Quint start comparing scars.
Yes. And each of them have a fair number of scars because each of them have been in dangerous situations in different ways for different reasons. One, because he's a, was a sailor and is a shark hunter. The other because he's a marine biologist and oceanographer. But still-
[00:40:06] Ian: Mm-hmm ... they, and- It's, it's the little mo- one of them putting their leg up-
to show the scar, and the other guy putting his leg on top of the other guy's leg to show him the next one.
[00:40:16] Matthew: And you do see Quint gaining a little more respect for Hooper. Yes. He's not this guy with- He w- ... soft hands from a school somewhere.
[00:40:24] Ian: And you also see Brody, like, start to get frustrated with them, but join in after a moment.
[00:40:29] Matthew: Right.
[00:40:30] Ian: There's this little bit of like, "Oh, no. Why are you two bonding?" "
[00:40:36] Matthew: Oh, I don't have any fish bite scars to share."
[00:40:40] Ian: Exactly. "I don't like the water."
[00:40:41] Matthew: Right. "I probably have something from my time as a New York City cop, but that's not gonna be the same."
[00:40:47] Ian: Yeah. But the, the bonding makes the later moments, like the smashing of the radio, hit even harder.
Yes. Because these t- these people understand each other, and that means that, Quint going mad, that means Brody's animalistic revenge need.
[00:41:06] Matthew: Yes. And this, this bonding session they're having that night, it's interrupted by an attack from the shark, who's just- Mm-hmm
slamming into the hull of the ship and breaking it. And it's the beginning of the ultimate destruction of Orca, but it, it also reminds them, they're out here for a, a reason and they're confronting a monster. And during his talk about the, or at the close of his description of what happened with the sinking of the Indianapolis, Quint says, "I'll never put on a life jacket again," or, "I'll never, I'll never wear a life vest again."
Yeah. Later on, we know that things are getting serious when he actually finds life vests and gives one to Hooper and to, uh, to Brody. Doesn't put one on himself, though. Hmm.
[00:41:45] Ian: Doesn't put one on himself.
[00:41:46] Matthew: Like, "I'd rather drown than bob around and be ready to be a, a snack for a shark."
[00:41:50] Ian: Yeah. But during these scenes, we get these cutaways to the wood cracking and the water pouring in.
It's, it's chilling
[00:42:03] Matthew: And the rest of the shark hunt kind of plays out in a pretty straightforward way, in which we've got the additional barrels, we've got attempts and near, near opportunities to, uh, to injure or kill the shark that don't quite work.
[00:42:18] Ian: Yeah. A, a hypodermic needle spear-
[00:42:24] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:42:24] Ian: with a giant thing of strychnine.
[00:42:27] Matthew: Another thing that makes clear the fact that Quint realizes this is not like any other hunt he's been on, is when he starts asking about and taking seriously, Hooper's devices. Like, he's got a shark cage, and yeah, he's got this harpoon that he can use to poison the shark. And Quint points out, "You're not gonna get this little needle through the hide of that monster."
then Hooper says, "Yeah, if I go down in the cage, I can maybe get it into a mouth or an eye or something." And that's an incredibly brave offer or, or incre- Yeah ... decision by, by Hooper, and that too is, it's respected by Quint. He, Quint I think also thinks it's suicidal, but staying here is suicidal too- Mm-hmm
so he might as well.
[00:43:10] Ian: Yeah. The fact that Brody continues to be our, our audience surrogate, kind of watching these two figure this out is important there. Right. But Hooper is there risking his life, and they, they set up a, a spear full of the stuff.
[00:43:25] Matthew: They've got this harpoon, and they load it with the poison.
But they bring it down with the shark, cage in order to try to get it into a weak point. And yet the shark cage does not stand up to this 25-foot great white.
[00:43:38] Ian: No. He, this, the shark just starts bashing it until he bends the frame.
[00:43:42] Matthew: Right. And early on throughout this, uh, Hooper drops the harpoon.
Mm-hmm. So now he doesn't even have a chance to kill this shark. He just wants to survive it.
[00:43:51] Ian: So, but yeah, Hooper with his scuba tanks. He's gotta flee into like a cave of rocks and hope that the shark doesn't notice him.
[00:44:00] Matthew: And fortunately, the shark doesn't. The shark is now more interested in destroying this metal cage that is, attached to Orca, and continues the destruction of Orca by destroying its winch by pulli- pulling on this cage.
And, and eventually Quint and, uh, the Brody get the cage back up and Hooper's not in there.
[00:44:21] Ian: Yeah.
[00:44:21] Matthew: So they figure it's just the two of them now.
[00:44:24] Ian: They're, they're absolutely certain that Hooper is dead. And it's right then that the iconic moment of the shark just hopping up onto the boat-
[00:44:35] Matthew: Yes ...
[00:44:35] Ian: happens. Which is such an iconic moment.
Like the, the, the the shark that has just taken out the rear end of this boat and tipped the whole thing. It's like, like someone trying to get the last chips out of a bag.
[00:44:51] Matthew: And it's terrible how references go in both directions, but now as powerful as that scene is, I can't see that scene without thinking about Gang Beasts, the game.
[00:45:02] Ian: Yes.
[00:45:03] Matthew: The game. Which has essentially the boat with the shark who leaps up onto it level.
[00:45:08] Ian: Yeah, it, it, the yeah, this is, this is a moment parodied in a thousand things, referenced there, but it's also so effective. It's also where you can start seeing that the puppet is a little awkward.
[00:45:18] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:45:18] Ian: It's this giant just flapping mouth.
[00:45:22] Matthew: And if you just go with it and deal with the, uh, the, the cuts, keep that from being too obvious, but yeah, it's-
[00:45:28] Ian: Yeah. Well, the, the amount of stuff that was in the drawers of the Orca- ... starts becoming ridiculous as it's- Right ... slowing down, just to show objects get destroyed. But that also helps obfuscate the ending in a good way.
[00:45:43] Matthew: Yeah.
[00:45:44] Ian: We do get Quint kind of trying, like, uh, trying not to slide towards the shark 'cause he's there, and , Brody grabbing his hand and trying, but Quint slides in and is kicking at the shark and gets eaten.
[00:46:00] Matthew: Yeah. That's the end of Quint.
[00:46:03] Ian: That's the end of Quint. But there's this element of, like, you know, a final battle.
This shark hunter and the shark that finally took him out having this fight, and, I mean, it doesn't go well for Quint, but it's, it's dramatic and horrible.
[00:46:21] Matthew: And we haven't really talked about the gore in this movie, but it's a very gory movie from the very beginning.
[00:46:27] Ian: It is.
[00:46:27] Matthew: That very first shark attack, we didn't really see all that much, and yet we, uh, with the later attacks, we get to see more and more, and we see severed limbs drifting to the ocean floor.
And now we see lots of blood and gore as Quint is killed by this shark.
[00:46:48] Ian: Mm-hmm. A lot of red dye tossed in the water. Yeah. A lot of that, like, you know... Jaws, the iconic poster is the shark coming up from the bottom. But honestly, if you wanted to do a poster that fits the screen more, red... A, a red puddle in the water growing larger.
[00:47:11] Matthew: Yes.
[00:47:11] Ian: That, like, diffusing red blood into the water is so much more the image, 'cause we see that from the chum, from every attack of the, of the creature. That is almost m- the fin is the sign of it, of, of that it's coming, and the red is the sign that it did what it's here to do. Those two images are much more, much more impactful on the actual screen than the shark coming up that everyone mimics.
[00:47:39] Matthew: And those levels of gore in the movie, those are probably the main reasons why I was careful about, you know, not showing this to you when you were too little. The first time that I saw it was in its broadcast TV edit.
[00:47:51] Ian: Okay.
[00:47:52] Matthew: And that diminished the gore considerably. Oh. And yet, still, it was still a scary, horrible movie.
Hor- horrifying movie, incredibly well-made movie- Yeah ... but you know what I mean. So yeah, Quint, uh, is, suffers his end in the mouth of a shark as he seems he was destined to do. And it was almost as if Quint's life was, "I know what's gonna happen to me someday. I just need to get it m- uh, get as many of them as I can before one of them gets me."
[00:48:25] Ian: Yeah. There's a, there's an element there of his descriptions having been in the s- the sinking of the Indianapolis that has a very much like Quint died then and it only caught up with him now, kind of moment.
[00:48:39] Matthew: Right. And meanwhile, Brody has been, throughout this entire hunt, he's been the, the gofer and doesn't know anything about any of the techniques or equipment needed to, to kill sharks.
Uh, his best idea is he'll strap on his s- gun belt with his service revolver, as if that's gonna do a lot of good.
[00:48:59] Ian: Yeah. And he's also a man who doesn't like the water.
[00:49:04] Matthew: Right.
[00:49:05] Ian: So here he is now on a destroyed, sinking boat, climbing up the b- the... climbing up the structure to try to not... Like, climbing out the windows of the boat at weird angles just to try to keep away from the water so that the shark doesn't get him, and he's grabbing equipment as he goes.
[00:49:22] Matthew: And here is where we get the, the payoff for something that was telegraphed earlier on-
[00:49:29] Ian: Mm-hmm ...
[00:49:30] Matthew: which is the air tanks. There were some scuba tanks, that Hooper had, and he's used one of them. But early on when Brody pulls the wrong line and winds up spilling a bunch of stuff and knocking stuff around the boat before the shark shows up, Hooper tells him to be careful and how dangerous this is, and these air tanks can explode if you hit them in the wrong way.
So uh, Brody I think right after Quint is, devoured, shoves the remaining air tank into the jaw of the shark.
[00:50:01] Ian: Yeah. He, like, just throws it and th- and the shark just like, "Okay, ha."
[00:50:04] Matthew: And
[00:50:05] Ian: then it gets- And it's stuck in the side of his mouth.
[00:50:06] Matthew: Yes. But- "Is there anything in my teeth?"
Exactly.
[00:50:10] Ian: But that creates a classic video game boss weak spot.
[00:50:16] Matthew: Absolutely.
[00:50:17] Ian: And it's Brody there on top of the boat with a rifle trying to hit it, and he misses so many times.
Oh, that is painful
[00:50:30] Matthew: Shot after shot misses
[00:50:33] Ian: And I do love, though, that we get miss and we see the bullet fly, and we get all this time. Miss and miss, and then he finally hits and there is no pause. There is just ding, bam.
[00:50:46] Matthew: Yes
[00:50:47] Ian: Shark is gone
[00:50:49] Matthew: It's that sudden shock of this explosion with water and pieces of shark going everywhere
[00:50:54] Ian: Yeah.
You feel the sudden lurch of it all. Mm-hmm. It is one of... Like, I was surprised, 'cause I'd known of this shot. I knew of, like, a how do you defeat the shark from Jaws kind of, like, pop culture reference element. But it caught me off guard how sharp of a m- of a cinematic moment this is. Yeah This is the jump cut to end all sharks jump cut.
It is It is visceral in cinematography in a way I didn't expect. And the fact that it was still able to hit me even when I knew what was coming says something about how it was done. It's also right at the end.
[00:51:34] Matthew: Yes.
[00:51:35] Ian: It is shark goes boom, Hooper surfaces. Brody, "Oh, thank goodness you're not dead. Let's go home."
Film. There's not a lot of, there's not a lot of like, "Oh," coming in. It's like, "Shark's dead. Goodbye."
[00:51:52] Matthew: Absolutely no epilogue..
[00:51:54] Ian: No epilogue.
[00:51:55] Matthew: None whatsoever. And it is... It's still that monster movie trope. We finally found what's gonna kill this. If it's Frankenstein, there's like nothing we can do except trap it in a windmill and burn down the windmill.
It's a shar- this, this particular shark, there's nothing we can do except blow it up from the inside.
[00:52:14] Ian: Yeah.
[00:52:15] Matthew: We found the way of killing it.
[00:52:18] Ian: Which, but that lack of, that lack of like a release, like, you know, "The shark's dead, goodbye," also means that this film just kinda leaves you floating there- ... at the end.
In a very, in a very aquatic way. Yes. You know? You know, by the time, by the time the credits are rolling, you're still processing what just happened.
[00:52:42] Matthew: And there's not even a lot of credits. Being an older movie, we get the cast, and that's about it at the end. Yeah. Everything else was up front.
[00:52:49] Ian: I can just imagine, though, especially this being this, you know, first big blockbuster, the people still just sitting there with their popcorn in hand.
[00:52:57] Matthew: Oh, I'm sure.
[00:52:58] Ian: Just stunned and processing while the lights come on in the theater.
[00:53:02] Matthew: No need to persuade people to stay till the end of the credits for this movie.
[00:53:05] Ian: Yeah, exactly. Um, so yeah. You know, once there's no more Jaws, there's no Jaws.
[00:53:15] Matthew: And yet, and yet.
[00:53:17] Ian: And yet, there is plenty of Jaws.
I think that's leading into our final questions.
[00:53:22] Matthew: I think it is. So listeners, please stay tuned for those final questions while we talk about our recommendations around this movie and what comes after. But in the meantime, if you are enjoying the Intermillennium Media Project, first of all, thank you very much for listening.
And if you wanna support us, please give us, uh, nice reviews and five stars wherever it is you get your podcasts. But also, please go to immproject.com. That's where you will find all of our back episodes, , 200 or so, including bonuses, and we're coming up on our 200th, podcast main episode. Oh my goodness.
And also, at immproject.com, you will find, ways to support the show. On our Patreon, you can support us and get even more bonus content. At our store, you can support the podcast and also get fun things like coffee mugs and T-shirts and notebooks and the like. And, uh, you can get those with the podcast logo, but also some things referencing favorite episodes like The Prisoner and Space 1999.
[00:54:23] Ian: Oh, yes.
[00:54:25] Matthew: And you can also contact us at immproject.com through our contact page or email or Blue Sky or Mastodon, and our Discord. So we would love to hear from you. What did you think of Jaws? What was the first summer blockbuster you remember? And, what impact did it have on you? And Ian, where can people find you?
[00:54:44] Ian: I can be found most places as ItemCrafting, ItemCrafting on Blue Sky or ItemCraftingLive on Twitch. I play games and make props, live on screen, chat, and have a fine time. recently I've been, making some more stuff from games that we've been completing to put up on our armory wall of, props and pieces.
I think I, uh, I played some Deltarune, and I'm gonna be putting up some new pieces soon.
[00:55:10] Matthew: It's kind of a Purple Rose of Cairo thing you have going on, where we've got the things in the video games, and next thing you know, they're sitting there in the lab with you.
[00:55:17] Ian: It kind of is. And Dad, where can they find you?
[00:55:21] Matthew: Well, you can look for ByMatthewPorter. So I'm ByMatthewPorter on Mastodon and Blue Sky and YouTube, where you'll find movie and movie theater reviews. but you can go to bymatthewporter.com and find links to all of those, as well as other things I'm doing. You can also find, at bymatthewporter.com, information about my book, Questions for the Dead, which is now available.
You can go to your local bookstore and ask them to order if it's not on their shelves, or you can buy it from your favorite online bookseller. And it's available as paperback and as an e-book. And it is a, a psychic mystery involving a Denver private investigator and his collection of, uh, unusually talented friends.
[00:56:03] Ian: Oh, yeah. It's, it's a fun time.
[00:56:09] Matthew: So
[00:56:10] Ian: So ...
[00:56:11] Matthew: this was a movie. Our first question, as always, is screen or no screen?
[00:56:19] Ian: This is so tricky because Jaws is a classic. Jaws was, I think had some excellent moments. Jaws is 124 minutes, and even for its pacing, I felt that was long. I'm just gonna be honest. I know that there's the whole thing of, oh, you know, attention spans and everything.
No. I feel like there are sections of Jaws that are too long. But I think it's a good movie. So I kinda wanna say screen, but I didn't expect Jaws to wind up in the fold some laundry category of like- ... background watch. Like, give yours- like don't, don't... For, even if it's the first blockbuster, I didn't feel like Jaws had glued me to the screen like some films do.
It's more of a tone piece.
[00:57:13] Matthew: It is, and I can understand that. I, I would say the f- by today's standards, the pacing could be tightened a bit. But I still absolutely say screen. If you need to fold laundry- Yeah ... during the first half, I get that. This is a movie I've never seen on a big screen in a theater, and I'd really like to because I want a chance to be immersed in this movie in that same way.
And pacing changes when you have that immersion. When- It does ... there's nothing here but to pay attention to the movie. And yet, uh, I th- I acknowledge those things, but I still say screen. It is still- Yeah ... a compelling and entertaining movie. Still some really good performances. Speaking of which, we, we talked about Roy Scheider and, uh, Richard Dreyfuss.
We didn't really talk about Robert Shaw, who plays Quint, and we saw him in, uh, Force 10 from Navarone.
[00:58:01] Ian: That was him.
[00:58:03] Matthew: A very different kind of character.
[00:58:06] Ian: Yeah.
I forgot about that part
I mean, talk about a, a, a change over time, but he does excellent work there.
[00:58:16] Matthew: And this is around the same time. I think it was just, uh, a year or two later that they made Force 10 From Navarone.
[00:58:22] Ian: Really? Uh, Force 10. No, this wa- Force 10 was three years later.
[00:58:32] Matthew: Yeah, it's three years later- Yeah ... that they made
[00:58:34] Ian: that.
Yeah. Wow, okay. Oh, my goodness.
That's impressive
[00:58:39] Matthew: So between the, iconic nature of this movie and the influence it had, the really good performances, and the fact that it, it's still a compelling story. And it is a monster movie in a very different kind of context. We're not used to seeing monster movies on bright, sunny beaches.
[00:58:55] Ian: No, we're not.
[00:58:56] Matthew: It's, it's interesting and worth watching. So I say screen.
[00:59:01] Ian: I agree.
[00:59:03] Matthew: And that, that leads us to the next question, which is revive, reboot, or rest in peace? Should there be a sequel to this movie?
[00:59:11] Ian: I mean, they blew up the shark. How could they ever do more? Jaws as a franchise has been- ... was followed by three sequels.
I don't know how.
[00:59:26] Matthew: It makes one wonder, doesn't it?
[00:59:28] Ian: Because also, three sequels, um, every single Jaws movie has a different director.
[00:59:38] Matthew: Yep.
[00:59:39] Ian: So it's Spielberg, but then it's three other people. And I'm not saying anything against these other directors, but I take it every single Jaws movie feels extremely different because of that?
I'm intrigued by the fact that Carl Gottlieb wrote the first three of these.
[00:59:55] Matthew: Yes. Benchley was not involved in the later movies, but it was Gottlieb and somebody else writing the second, , and the third.
[01:00:02] Ian: And it kept going, but this franchise lasted all the way till '87, which is also interesting 'cause I would've expected it to go even further, but there's only four films
We got Jaws 2, and then Jaws 3-D, and then Jaws: The Revenge
[01:00:22] Matthew: And Jaws 2 is the most direct sequel in that we still have Chief Brody
[01:00:27] Ian: Yeah. I take it Brody shows up in, The Revenge at least somehow, or at least referenced?
[01:00:35] Matthew: Oh. See, I've never seen that, so I don't know.
[01:00:39] Ian: Yeah. Oh, okay. So we've got, yeah, we've got Brody in Jaws 2, and then Ja- and then Jaws 3-D doesn't, uh
No. Um
Wait, Jaws 3D is Brody's younger brother. And then Jaws the Revenge is Lorraine Gary coming back as Elaine Brody because the shark is coming after Brody's family after he died.
[01:01:05] Matthew: It gets a little ridiculous.
[01:01:07] Ian: It gets ridiculous. If we kept this up, we would've had Jaws in space.
[01:01:12] Matthew: Oh, absolutely. But yeah, you've got essentially, what, the shark there with a notebook crossing names off it. I mean, come on.
[01:01:19] Ian: Come on. Um, so yeah, I kind of don't know why they tried to keep making sequels And I'm gonna say that this is a rest in peace
[01:01:34] Matthew: And one thing- Yeah ... I gotta say about Jaws: The Revenge.
[01:01:38] Ian: Okay.
[01:01:38] Matthew: That is where we get the movie promotional tagline, "This time it's personal."
[01:01:45] Ian: That's from there?
[01:01:47] Matthew: Yes. The oft-repeated, oft-mocked, "This time it's personal." That's from Jaws: The Revenge. And that's so 180 degrees from the original movie. It, the, the original movie was this is an eating machine.
It barely has a consciousness. There's nothing personal about this. It is just a horrific force of nature. And, you know, by Jaws: The Revenge, it's, you know, taking names literally.
[01:02:15] Ian: We're gonna be cutting to the shark and it's just got like Quint's name written on a fin crossed out through the middle.
[01:02:21] Matthew: Exactly.
[01:02:23] Ian: What in the world are we dealing with here?
It also says, it says something also that like apparently this is a family of sharks
[01:02:30] Matthew: Yeah. '
[01:02:31] Ian: Cause the first one's very gone.
[01:02:33] Matthew: Oh, yes, yes
[01:02:35] Ian: Interesting, like there's talk that Spielberg was ta- was asked to make a Jaws 2, and the version he wanted was like rejected.
[01:02:42] Matthew: Yeah?
[01:02:43] Ian: Yeah. Um...
[01:02:45] Matthew: I wonder if he worked with Benchley on that at all.
[01:02:47] Ian: It's hard to find too much, but there's some interviews that say that, you know, he wanted to do, a prequel about the attack on the Indianapolis.
Ah. To follow Quint's story more.
[01:02:59] Matthew: That would be fascinating. That'd be quite a movie.
[01:03:03] Ian: But- I take it it never got very far off the ground, so it's only small pieces.
[01:03:07] Matthew: Yeah. I have heard it described as, if you wanna know, what's wrong with American electoral politics, the mayor from Jaws 1 is still the mayor in Jaws 2.
[01:03:20] Ian: Oh, goodness. You're kidding me. Oh, no
Oh, no.
[01:03:29] Matthew: But yeah, it's this weird four movie... the third one was Jaws 3D
[01:03:34] Ian: Which is also like the Jaws franchise, the first movie is iconic and the rest became instant parody.
[01:03:42] Matthew: Yes
[01:03:43] Ian: the fact that in the Back to the Future movies, Jaws 19-
[01:03:48] Matthew: Yes ...
[01:03:49] Ian: joke. Also the fact that we live in an era where people online have made a, uh, a fan film of Jaws 19.
[01:04:00] Matthew: So- Um- ... my, my verdict about this movie is rest in peace It, it should rest in peace, and also why didn't you let it rest in peace?
[01:04:12] Ian: There's something about Jaws is a horror film without the Halloween horror aesthetics. Hmm. Yeah. And I think that has a wonderful place. Yes. This is gonna be weird. I'm gonna pull something from the video game industry- Yeah
and the video game culture more than the film culture here. I don't want more Jaws films, but I want people to clearly identify things as a Jaws-like. The same way a game can be called a Metroidvania because it's similar to games like Super Metroid and Castlevania. There are Jaws-like films.
[01:04:49] Matthew: Yeah.
[01:04:50] Ian: Godzilla Minus One is a Jaws interpretation of the Godzilla franchise.
I feel like there are other films that take the playbook of Jaws and the way to do horror that keeps it in the back of your mind and makes you deal with the people first, and the threat upon them as a separate thing.
[01:05:13] Matthew: And that disparity between the dark danger and the setting, like you're saying- Exactly
not, not having the Halloween aesthetic.
[01:05:20] Ian: Exactly. So I, like, if you wanted to do a Jaws collection, there's non-Jaws movies that fit better as a spiritual sequel, as a connected cinematic legacy to Jaws better than the Jaws sequels. And I think that's where we've- Yeah ... got more opportunity.
[01:05:40] Matthew: Here's an, here's a thought, and if you want examples of that, I would say the Twister movies are in some- Mm-hmm
respects a Jaws-like horror movie. I'm not elevating them in terms of, you know, them being movies that are as good as Jaws, but in terms of their structure, in terms of their approach to the diff- the different characters responding differently to this incredibly dangerous force of nature. It's that same kind of movie, and in some ways a horror movie.
[01:06:10] Ian: Yeah. I, I'm, I'm gonna just pitch an idea here. You could do a Jaws film set in Colorado with a mountain lion driven from its area from a wildfire-
[01:06:23] Matthew: Oh, yeah ...
[01:06:24] Ian: and a small mountain town very well.
[01:06:27] Matthew: Yep.
[01:06:28] Ian: And that tells you that the concept works. But yeah, it's like you can have this, this style still, still function, yeah.
I, I would love to see those. I'd love to see people take Jaws as an inspiration, n- not as a franchise. Well, where do you land? 'Cause I'm kind of doing a, a rest in peace, but take note.
[01:06:51] Matthew: Yeah, I would say it, it has been influential. It should still be influential, maybe in more interesting ways than it has been.
But for Jaws itself, rest in peace.
[01:06:59] Ian: Yeah.
[01:07:00] Matthew: Well, this has been fun. It's a fun way to kick off the summer. We're heading into 4th of July. We'll make sure the beaches stay open
[01:07:07] Ian: It is a good time to watch movies
[01:07:10] Matthew: And we'll be back to do more of that
[01:07:12] Ian: We shall.
[01:07:13] Matthew: So thank you for listening, and, join us again in a couple of weeks for more tales of media from the 20th century.
[01:07:20] Ian: In the meantime, go find something new to watch
