WEBVTT
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Hi guys, welcome back to I'll read what she's reading.
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I'm Michaela.
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I'm Reggie, and I'm Kennedy.
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And today we have a very, very special guest.
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We have the wonderful and talented Steve Kavanaugh.
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We are so excited to have you on.
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Say hello.
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Hello.
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Thank you so much for having me on.
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It's a real honor and a pleasure.
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So no, I'm looking forward to this.
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Thank you so much.
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Our listeners have heard us yap about your books for months and months and months now.
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And so we're excited to have you.
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It's like a full circle moment for us.
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Yeah.
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Oh, great.
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Me too.
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No, I I remember when you you put a video on and lots of people were clicking on it and sharing it.
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And so that was great for me.
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Thank you.
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Yeah.
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You're so welcome.
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We're happy to post about you and talk about you anytime.
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Yeah, it is very well deserved.
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So we have a few rapid fire questions, just a little icebreaker before we get into like the nitty-gritty questions.
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So let's do the rapid fire.
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Okay, starting off, coffee or tea?
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Coffee.
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Coffee.
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Okay.
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All right.
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Uh morning rider or night riding?
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Uh night writing, I think, is best.
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Morning writing is more difficult for me.
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I have lots to do in the morning.
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I've I I'm I have children that take to schools and colleges, and I have a small dog that tortures me, so morning writing is difficult.
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Um and I'm also a friend with E Child who says that nothing of any value is ever accomplished in the morning, which I tend to agree with.
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Yeah, like it.
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I like that.
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Uh do you like reading a hardcover or a paperback?
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Um I like both.
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Um if I'm traveling, definitely a paperback.
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Um, but if it's a new book that whatever I'm an author I love, I have to have it in hardback to read.
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So it depends on the author.
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Okay.
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Do you use a Kindle at all or like an e-reader?
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No, I find that if I read a book on a Kindle, I can't take it in in the same way.
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Um and there's been studies done on that.
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So if you and there's lots of people I know, friends of mine, who do read on Kindle because they have to, you know, expand the text to make it easier to read, and that's totally fine.
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But you don't take it in in the same way as you do reading a physical book.
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That's still the best technology for reading.
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I could see that.
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Yeah.
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It took me forever to get a Kindle until they just convinced me because I was like, no, I have to read my hardcover books or paperback.
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But Kindle's nice for traveling.
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I will say that.
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Oh, it's great for traveling, yeah.
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If you're going away on a two-week holiday, a Kindle is the perfect thing.
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Yeah.
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There's nothing that beats like a physical like page turning off.
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So you know.
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It's the endorphins when you turn the page.
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All right.
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What's your favorite courtroom drama?
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Oh, um, like a movie or book?
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Yeah, anything.
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Oh, uh I love a few good men.
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I'm a big Aaron Sorkin fan.
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So I love a few good few good men.
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Even though the courtroom scenes aren't, if you're looking at it from a lawyer point of view, how it would really work.
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They're kind of silly.
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But um, you know, Tom Cruise is amazing and Jack Nicholson's amazing.
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So yeah, I would say that.
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A few good men.
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That's a really good.
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Yeah, that's a good one.
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All right.
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Do you write listening to music or it does it have to be silent?
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Um, it depends.
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So if I'm in a first draft mood and I want to get a lot of words done, I have a like a playlist, which is mostly uh instrumental stuff, and I'll put that on and I'll write.
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If I'm in a coffee shop, I'll stick earbuds in and I'll write.
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If I'm editing or if I'm tinkering with something I've already written, I have to have silence.
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So it's a little bit of both.
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A little bit of everything.
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Alright, do you prefer writing courtroom scenes or action scenes?
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What's your favorite?
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I prefer an action scene because they're easier.
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Yeah, I can see the courtroom scenes in my butt.
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I really made a rod for my own back with his character Eddie Flynn because he's much smarter than me.
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And each little courtroom scene scene in the book, there's a little twist into every scene that you won't see coming and the witness won't see coming.
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And they're hard, they're hard to do.
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So uh action scenes are much easier for me.
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Hey, but Eddie Flynn comes from your brain, so you're as smart as him in my opinion.
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Yes.
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Well, he d he does it all on the f you know, with very little preparation.
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I have to think a long time to get those things right, um, whereas he's doing it in real time.
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You know, I have a time machine and I'm still, you know, I'm struggling to get this right.
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So oh, that's so fun.
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I I just love the way your brain works and it translates into these books because they make it really fun for your readers.
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So thank you.
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Thank you for putting the time and energy and creating Eddie Flynn.
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Yes.
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Oh, thank you.
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That's quite kind of you.
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What's really cool about Eddie Flynn, especially, is just the fact that like your courtroom scenes are just as fun as the action scenes.
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And I feel like not that it I feel like it would be hard to do, but I almost love the courtroom scenes more because they're so dramatic.
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Oh, yeah.
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I'm always like, I gotta get my popcorn ready.
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Yes.
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I'm always just sat and buckled.
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Yeah, that's why I started writing them because you know, like John Grisham's the biggest legal thriller writer in the world.
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Um, you know, undeservedly so, he's a great storyteller.
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But there are very few courtroom scenes in his novels, and certainly his best books have no courtroom scenes at all.
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Like The Firm is a suspense masterpiece, yeah.
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But there's no courtroom scenes in it whatsoever.
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And I wanted to try and because I did courtroom work myself, and I was really interested in that psychological battle that happens between a lawyer and a witness, where every word used by that lawyer is a weapon, and it's a real psychological and linguistic battle.
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Um, so I wanted to try and bring that into and they are very traumatic scenes, and I want to try that's what I thought I could do in my books.
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And so thank you.
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If I'm doing it right by you, that's good.
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Thank you.
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You're doing it very, very well for real.
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Um I we have a little bit of a silly question, and maybe you can't answer because this would give away anything for what you're writing next.
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But what's the most suspicious thing you've Googled recently?
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Oh I Google lots of suspicious things.
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Um so for the book that's coming out that is out in US at the moment is two kinds of stranger.
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Yes.
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So for that, I had to Google and find out how to dig up a body.
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Okay, okay and how long it would take and how to do it very efficiently, and I had to find out about US caskets, because in the in the UK and Ireland we have coffins, whereas in the US they're caskets and they're different.
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And you know, they'll they'll have half lids, you know, um uh in the US, whereas we don't, there's just a full lid that goes down.
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Plus, and also in some of the caskets in certain states, there has to be this little um key, a secret compartment in every casket.
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So um, especially so if you're in like in Louisiana, it's not legal to be buried without one of these.
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So it's a little key that you use to open up the secret compartment in the bottom of the casket, and inside is a little glass vial, and in that vial it'll say the name of the person who's in the the coffin or the casket, the date of their date of birth and the date they died.
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And this is because in certain states it's not unusual if there's flooding.
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You know, for example, in New Orleans, you cannot be buried beneath the ground, you have to be buried above the ground because it's all swampland.
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You just come up and float down the street.
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So um, and where they have floods and stuff, you know, and if there is some kind of natural disaster, they have to be able to know, okay, you know, who's in there?
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Oh, we opened the key, all right.
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That's who it is.
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They put it in.
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So I've Googled lots of stuff like this.
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For the book that's coming out in March, I had to look up a bit of law that is, and we'll talk about this later on if you like.
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A bit of law that we have here, and I wanted to see if it was the same in America, because if I do, I do I mention very little law in my books, so any law that is there is is correct.
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So there's an obscure piece of law in in America that say, for example, um your your spouse confessed to you that they had killed someone, you're not legally allowed to testify about that.
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Yeah, you can't mention that at all in court, you're not allowed to.
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And that's a really obscure piece of law which comes from an old common law thing.
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So I have to see if that if that existed in the US and how it works and how it's applied, and it's still very much in force.
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So that's that's uh for the book next year.
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So I Google all sorts of weird, wonderful, crazy things.
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Yeah, I would love search history.
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Yeah, seriously, a page of all of your search history.
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It'll be hard, you know.
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My search history is you know how to bury a body, um, you know, cute cute dog videos and you know, you know, stuff like that, you know, sneakers, um, and weird, you know, it's it's very random.
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Yeah, duality of Steve Kavanaugh.
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Yeah, I love that.
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You go from dog videos and there's lots of layers.
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Yeah, I love it.
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I love it.
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We're seeing all sides.
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Yeah.
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So, like you mentioned, and if people couldn't already tell, you are based in Ireland.
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But your Yes, in Northern Ireland.
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Yes, and your books, the Eddie Flynn series specifically, or uh is that all your books are based in New York City?
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Pretty much all of them.
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There's a few that aren't.
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Um, but yes, they're all set in the States.
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Okay.
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I think I just read the one that was based in Kentucky.
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Oh, um Alabama, the devil's gonna be a little bit of a big Alabama.
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Alabama, yes.
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Alabama.
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Okay.
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I yeah.
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Yeah.
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What was it that what was it that made you decide to write and base your books there versus in Ireland?
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A couple of things.
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Um uh when I started writing, I was a lawyer, a civil rights and criminal lawyer in Northern Ireland.
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And I didn't want to when I had the idea for like a lawyer, I was cross-examining someone one day, and I kind of conned them into revealing that they were lying.
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And it struck me then that con artists and trial lawyers have all the same skills distraction, misdirection, persuasion, and manipulation.
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And I thought that's a good idea for a character.
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And so when I started writing, I didn't want to come home from being a lawyer uh in Northern Ireland and start writing about a fictional sort of version of me.
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I thought that wouldn't work.
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And I always loved American crime fiction, so I thought, I wonder if could I set it in the US?
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Also, the problem is we have a dual system of representation, so we have solicitors, like the people who wear suits and being in office, and we have barristers who wear funny white wigs and gowns and stuff.
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I was a solicitor advocate, so I did both of those jobs up to a certain point.
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I wasn't allowed to do a murder trial on my own.
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Um but uh I thought that's all I don't want to have a character in a funny wig and a gown.
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It wouldn't suit the type of book I wanted to write.
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Um, you know, because the first book, The Defense, is quite fast-paced, and then he's running around.
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He would get his coke caught, you know, in a door or something when he's running around.
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It wouldn't work.
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So uh I thought if I set it in the US, that solves the problem.
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And two of my big influences are John Connolly, the Dublin crime writer and Lee Child.
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Um, and Lee's from Birmingham, you know.
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So uh I thought, well, they they're not American, they set books in America.
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Uh I could do that.
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The only difference is both John and Lee had spent you know many years in America before they started writing.
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I wrote the first Eddie three Eddie Flynn books, and I had never been to America.
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Well, you would never know.
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Yeah.
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Never been.
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I went after it published the third one.
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I thought I'd better go and see what this place is like.
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So are you on Google Maps a lot or Google Earth?
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A little bit.
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Uh the first book is sort of set in like a fictional courthouse, and it's fictional for a reason.
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Um and uh I I I just don't know.
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I I also cheat a wee bit by setting those first few books are all in New York.
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And if you've never been to New York City, every single person, uh you know, pretty much who's ever watched TV will have a very good mental image of what New York's like anyway.
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Yeah.
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You know, you've seen Ghostbusters, you've seen Spider-Man, you know what New York's like.
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So I can very easily tap into your sense of that city.
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Um and when you're creating something in fiction, it kind of ceases to exist.
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My New York's different from other crime writers who set their stuff in New York.
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I I'm just using it as a bit of a canvas for the books.
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So um, yeah, but it's it solves lots of problems, and you get it's New York's this kind of city where you think anything can happen there, you know, for sure.
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And lots of crazy stuff has happened in New York and continues to.
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So um, yeah, it's a it's a great place to set a crime novel.
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Alabama was good too, um, but I can't go back to Alabama now.
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Having written that book, I uh yeah.
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Yeah, I'll I'll give it a miss.
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Beautiful place, but I'll give it a miss.
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So wait, this is like kind of off topic, but where's your favorite place that you've traveled to in the United States?
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Do you have a favorite place?
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Like, is it New York?
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Oh, I I don't want to say a favorite place.
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I've been to so many brilliant places, um uh and some not so brilliant places as well.
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Um so I was recently in uh in Cleveland.
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Oh, okay.
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And I I visited a fantastic, I did a brilliant event there in a place outside of the Cleveland City Center.
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And when I was outside of the city centre, it was beautiful.
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But uh when I was inside the city centre, it wasn't so beautiful.
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Um have you seen the new Superman movie?
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No, it was like a Superman movie.
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Yeah, it's the new Superman guy.
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There's a Supergirl movie which I haven't seen, there's a Superman that Superman movie.
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The end of that, there's a big fight scene with a monster or something, and the whole street is wrecked.
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You know, there's cars crushed and people lying on the street, and he defeats the monster, and then they go into this beautiful mall, him and Lois Lane.
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And the you can see this on YouTube.
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Uh, it's the last scene where they he flies up with her and they kiss, and this gorgeous mall, it's like a Victorian beautiful thing.
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:14.559
Well, I was in that street, and I was in that mall, and the mall's empty in the movie, and in real life, it's empty too.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:20.720
There's a hairdresser's and there is a um like an antique shop, and that's it, the whole thing's empty.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:31.360
And the street is exactly like it is in the movie, with cars and fire and people lying in the street, and it was just like when I watched the movie, I thought they've spent a fortune, you know, on this.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.960
There's rubble everywhere, but that's just Cleveland.
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.360
I was in the hotel and I I do this thing when I'm on tour.
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.919
It's a tip given to me many years ago by a very famous crime writer that I won't mention.
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:56.320
But he said, you know, when you're going on tour, uh try not to check a bag in America because you know, take ages, just you know, bring carry-on and you'll get through all the airports because you're getting on a plane every day to go somewhere else.
00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:04.960
So he said, Bring, you know, um socks and underwear and just leave them behind and just buy new ones when you're there to travel light.
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:06.159
That's great.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:13.840
So uh I was at the stage where I needed to buy socks, so I went to the hotel and I said, Is there like a store around here I can I can buy socks?
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:19.600
And they looked at me and said, No, there's no place you can buy socks in the center of Cleveland.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:21.440
You're joking me.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.240
I said, No.
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.840
I yeah, there's a mall, like there was two massive malls beside the hotel, both of them all closed down.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:35.840
So, but um I I at the same time I had a brilliant time in Cleveland, and the place I was outside of it was fabulous, and I'll definitely go back.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.120
Won't stay in Cleveland next time in case I need socks.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.039
But um that's crazy.
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:46.799
No, it was great, and and this the city itself was beautiful, it was just a shame there was nobody there.
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.559
But I've had it before in cities.
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:49.039
I went to St.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:49.759
Louis St.
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:50.960
Louis once, St.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.399
Louis, where they have the big arch and there was nobody there.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.000
The whole city was empty.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.200
Yeah.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.039
Maybe it's just surprisingly.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.879
They hear everyone everyone's gonna be.
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:13.599
They hear Steve's coming, they're like, Goodbye, but I love uh I love New York, I love uh Raleigh in North Carolina, I love Houston, Texas, which is pretty I love places like that.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:23.920
So uh I've been lots of you know over the uh the years in lots of different um brilliant towns, and uh always the highlight of the trip is not really the towns, it's the people.
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.880
I love I everyone's incredibly welcoming and really nice.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.480
Um even though I've had many disasters on tour.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.279
Um I can tell you quick.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.079
Yeah, please tell us, yeah.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.480
So I was I was in this place, I got invited to this place.
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.599
It's called Sea Island in Georgia.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:52.960
Okay, and it's kind of like um a sort of a summer camp resort for millionaires.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:59.839
Okay, so to get and they would put on entertainment for their guests, and it's like an island resort.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.319
So there's a hotel and there's all different buildings and lodges, and there's a huge golf course and everything.
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.359
So um, they give you an idea of this place.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.000
They once decided, well, well, this show, Downton Abbey, is very popular.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.319
Is Downton Abbey popular in the US?
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:15.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:20.400
They flew out the whole cast and then said, Can you just put on a show for us?
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.640
And they went, Okay, yeah.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.200
Uh so it's that sort of level.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:30.960
Like they so they invited me and a few other writers to have like a uh a crime weekend.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.839
So we had to go and do a talk there, and they let us stay there for like four or five days.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:48.400
So I brought my wife, they paid for us to go first class from Dublin to Georgia, and they gave us the run of the resort for like you know, four or five days, and it was unbelievable.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.759
They give you a sense of the place.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.440
Well, we were checking in.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.440
Um, the lady said to me, You can go and see that man over there, he'll give you your complimentary BMW.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.160
And I said, Sorry, excuse me.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:05.759
So you could go, and this man would give you a BMW just to drive around the island.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.599
Oh wow, you go and see everything, and I and so I didn't do that.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:15.200
My wife wouldn't let me do that because she thought I'll wreck I'll wreck the car and then it'll be a disaster.
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:27.359
So um, but like Tracy had cryotherapy, she has had horseback riding and kayaking and everything, and had this amazing time, and it's all you know, three-star Michelin chef food and everything, fantastic.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:37.920
So all I had to do for this was this one talk, and it was a ballroom full of people, and I thought, okay, I'll just I'll go to the bathroom before I do this talk.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.079
And it was a summertime, it was very hot.
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:52.640
So I went into the bathroom, into the stall, locked the door, did whatever I had to do, coming out of kid, and I pulled the handle down on the on the door to open it, and the whole locking mechanism just crumbled in my hand.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.839
Oh no.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:20:02.160
And it was like floor-to-ceiling door, thick mahogany with just like a little slatted, you know, with little wooden slats in the window.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.599
This is actually my nightmare.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.759
I've thought about this happening multiple times to me.
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.839
I before I went in, I gave Tracy my gave my wife my phone.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.240
Oh, because I didn't want her on stage.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.039
So I'm looking at my watch, and it's two o'clock now.
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:20.079
I have to do my talk, and I'm locked in the world's hottest toilet.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.119
So I had no way of telling anybody this.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:30.160
So I start shouting for help, and a few minutes later, a man comes in and says, Are you alright?
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.680
I said, I'm stuck in here.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:37.839
And he tries the door, and he's he for a few minutes and goes, Yeah, you're you're really stuck in there.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.000
I said, I know, I can't climb out, I can't do anything.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.920
It's a totally sealed box I'm in.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.119
So wait a minute.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.519
So he went and got this guy, like an engineer who came in and he couldn't do anything.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.440
So the phone for these other people to come.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:51.519
But they're on the other side of the island.
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.400
And uh the event manager came in and said, What are we going to do here?
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.440
I said, Well, you better let them know I'm delayed uh here.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:10.240
So she, unbeknownst to me, she went into the ballroom and announced to 200 people the author, Steve Kavanaugh, is delayed because he has locked himself in the bathroom.
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:22.799
Oh now, technically that's correct, but the way she said it, it sounded as if I had thrown a mad hissy fit and had barricaded myself in the toilet and refused to come out.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:33.359
So I'm in here, I said about 15 minutes now, and the man the guy, the bar manager said to me, It's really warm in here.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.279
I said, I'm melting in here.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:43.119
So he said, Hang on a minute, and he came back, and then this big straw came through the slats of the of the window.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:48.400
So I said, That that water tastes really weird.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.880
He said, That's not water, that's Pinot Grigio.
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:57.920
Just put a big straw and a bottle of Pinot Grigio and well again, it was that kind of place.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:09.440
So um by about Half to I had inhaled a bottle, a whole bottle of Pinot Grigio, and then two men busted this door off and got cut me out.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:15.440
So when I walked into the ballroom, they had obviously thought, well, see if someone's had a negotiation with them.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.599
I had a huge round of applause.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.400
Well done.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.160
He's finally got the courage to come out of the bathroom to talk to us.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.880
But it was the warmest crowd I'd ever had.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.319
Everyone had a great time.
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:31.279
Um, because they all thought, you know, we'll give them we'll give them some encouragement here, obviously.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.319
So yeah, there's all sorts of disasters I have, but that's just one of them.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.079
That was great.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.640
If you want to talk about books, there's been two books.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.519
That was amazing.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.160
Yeah, that sounds like a comedy sketch that you just can't.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.039
There's all sorts of weird weird and wonderful things happen.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:01.680
This is not a question on our list, but since we're kind of like talking about a more funny story, would you ever write outside of the genre you typically write?
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:06.720
Because the way you told that story, I feel like I could read a comedy by you.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.920
Like, is that of any interest to you at all?
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:14.640
Um The weird thing is I don't think comedy books sell very well.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:15.119
Yeah.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:17.440
Um and I'm I don't know.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.079
I I kind of I know what I'm good at, if you know what I mean.
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:24.400
And I think I'm I I know I'm I'm okay with writing a thriller and I know how to do it.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.960
I know how to write a twist and characters and stuff.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.720
So I don't know if I ever would.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.759
Um I used to read a lot of fantasy.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.759
Uh so maybe a fantasy book, but I I doubt it.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:36.640
I doubt it.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.000
I I'm quite quite happy plowing my own furrow.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.400
I know I could definitely never write romance because that's really hard.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.039
Um, and I take my hat off to romance writers.
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.720
I think it's the most difficult game.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.440
That in children's writing is really tough.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:58.640
And there's a few bits in my book in Two Kinds of Strangers, there's a little bit of a sort of a romance scene, and that was really difficult.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.319
You know, I'm much happier, you know, cutting someone's hair off.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:02.799
Yeah.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.880
Comes more naturally to me.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:15.920
I think you could actually do a little bit of stand-up comedy, maybe not write it, but I think you're you're a very witty person.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:22.240
And I think you could you could you could uh make a living on stand-up just with your misfortunes.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:27.680
You could just go up and talk about that story and everyone will die laughing.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.839
So well, thank you very much.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.160
I do when I do when I when I go on tour, sometimes I'm talking to someone, sometimes they just give me a microphone and and I talk.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:41.920
And I I'll I will tell stories and things and talk a wee bit about books, but mostly I don't want to spoil the book.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:47.279
Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about it and then I'll tell a story, and everyone's had it, everyone's been entertained.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.920
Um so I think that's that's good, that's fun.
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.519
Getting me to talk isn't a problem, getting me to shut up is usually the the issue.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:54.079
Okay.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:55.359
I love it.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.000
Yeah, we're happy to do that.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.480
I really have to talk the entire time, pretty much.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.200
So without spoiling anything, you were talking about twists.
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:04.880
I'm so curious.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.079
How does one write a good twist?
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:09.680
Like, how does that start?
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.079
Like, how how do you put all of the pieces together?
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.880
Um, with great difficulty.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:18.559
Um really.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:26.640
Uh so it's only for one of my books that I know one of the twists going in.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.079
Because I don't plan anything out, I don't have an outline, I don't have a plan.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.079
I make it all up as I go along.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.440
So I'll have an idea for the very basic premise of the book, and it will be very basic.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:52.000
So, for example, Two Kinds of Stranger, you know, uh is basically what if you met the perfect, you know, uh what if you met this perfect stranger and you helped them and they turned out to be the perfect killer.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.440
And that's all I had when I started that book.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:01.519
Um, and then as I go along, I'll sort of I'll stop maybe every 20,000 words and look at what I've got.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.119
Because I know I do want to surprise you and I do want twists.
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:11.039
Um, so I it's sitting down and saying, okay, I'm always thinking about the reader when I'm writing.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:16.400
Some writers are always thinking about you know them, what they want from the book and what they want to write.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.319
And I'm always thinking about the reader.
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:19.759
What are you thinking?
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.759
What can I, you know, because Eddie's a con man, um uh, but he's not the only one.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.519
I'm also conning the reader.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.160
I need a twist that you won't see coming.
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:54.640
Um, uh, but it has to be actually the thing with the twist is it's all in the execution, so it has to be something that makes you go, oh I wow, I didn't see that coming, but it makes total sense and right, and it changes your perspective of the book, and it's it's all it's like having a puzzle that doesn't quite fit in, and then it just suddenly goes click and you have that satisfaction.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:09.759
I never want to write a twist which is just oh, I I didn't see that coming, and yeah, wow, it's just a twist for its sake, it's not it has to be satisfying, it has to be in a way that makes you go, wow, yes, great, I didn't see that coming, and it makes total sense.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:15.519
Not you know, oh, it was aliens, or he was, you know, something we weird, you know.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:22.559
Um, it has to, it can't be from left field, it has to all be, you have to build it all up and layer it through.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.720
And so that can be very tricky and just takes a lot of hard work.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:28.720
What you kill it.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.880
Yeah, because I feel like I'm very picky when it comes to the thrillers that I read.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.799
And I read some where the twist is very shocking, but it makes zero sense.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:45.039
And so with yours, I fe I feel like with all three of us, the reason we love your book so much is because your twists are still good, but you're right.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.839
It as soon as you reveal it to us, it all makes sense.
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:51.920
I'm not thinking this is so unrealistic, it doesn't make sense.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.960
It's just your book, your thriller books are just you know what thrillers should be.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.359
Yeah, they're they're action-packed.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.200
You still have like the wittiness that you show as a person is in your books.
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.000
It's just the perfect recipe for us.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.440
So you do a great job.
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:08.160
Thank you.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.119
Thank you very much.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.559
That's very kind of me to say.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.319
I'm I'm very glad.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:26.000
The talent, just what how you described it, I just couldn't imagine going into a book and just kind of making it up as I go and having it make as much sense as your books do.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.359
Like, like Kennedy said, it just fits so well.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.759
I just want to like jump inside of your brain to see how everything's moving.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:40.400
Because every time I'm reading your books, I'm like, how did this how did he figure this out?
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:40.960
I love it.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:41.759
It's so fun.
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:49.119
So well, I have help, you know, is I have good editors and my wife Tracy is brilliant at coming up with twists and ideas and surprises as well.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.319
So I I do have help.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.000
I'm not doing this all on my own.
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.640
Oh.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.200
And of course you got Google with your how to hide a body and dog videos, you know?
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:58.079
Exactly.
00:28:58.640 --> 00:28:59.839
Perfect combination.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:01.440
Perfect.
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.480
Talking about Eddie Flynn, okay.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:13.119
Is there anything that you've learned from writing about him that's maybe surprised you or writing these books?
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:15.119
Um, I don't know.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:24.559
I don't I uh I don't normally get surprised by I know some writers, they're you know, they get surprised by what their characters do.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.519
Um and I think that's it's not surprising the way that you think it is.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:35.839
You know, there are some writers that are all the way in and their characters talk to them and tell them things and all of that.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.759
And I'm always like, great.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:46.559
And then if this writer's telling me this, I'm sort of backing away very slowly, you know, don't make eye contact, no sudden movements, because those people are just crazy.
00:29:46.799 --> 00:30:01.039
Um there are other writers that will, you know, they have a plan for their book, and what they haven't accounted for is what their characters, who the what the characters that they've written, and it may well be that because they haven't written the characters yet.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:08.079
Um there's a to me, there's a huge overlap between plot and character, and character leads the plot for me.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:20.400
Yeah, um, because in if you think about it in any situation, um, I'm sure there's a parallel here for maybe romantic books, but you would have one character who would maybe so say Jack Reacher.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:27.119
If Jack Reacher finds a bad guy at the end of a book, Jack Reacher shoots a bad guy in the head and then goes and gets a cup of coffee.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:33.839
Uh if it's a police detective like Harry Bosch, he finds a bad guy, he arrests him, and there's a trial.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:41.279
But you know, so the characters in some ways to take the dictate the action if you're writing true to what that character will do.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:49.839
You know, so uh sometimes you can be surprised that way if you have a set idea for a plot and you say, Oh, the character won't do what I want them to do.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.079
Well, maybe that's not the character you've written.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.920
So uh I'm never really surprised by that.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.920
But I know exactly what you mean.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:16.640
Yeah, but that's very interesting because um we've interviewed quite a few authors, and so it's just always very interesting to see how what the relationship is like with their characters and like how they write and stuff like that based on yeah, the relationship they have.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.200
And yeah, that's that's just very interesting.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:20.000
I love it.
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:24.240
Yeah, though well, I think I know Annie Flint and I have written ten books with him.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:30.000
Yeah, so I know what he'll do in a situation, which kind of makes the writing of the books easier for me in some ways.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:35.839
Because I know what he'll do, I know the mistakes he'll make, um, I know that some of the tactics he'll employ.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.160
He'll always do the wrong thing for the right reasons to help someone else.
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.799
Um and as long as I stay true to that, then I'm I'm okay.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:46.000
Yeah.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:32:01.359
Um, if you do you think um Eddie Flynn would have to uh change his ways if he were to magically be in your world, like in Ireland.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:09.039
Um you would be amazed at things that some lawyers get away with.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:17.920
Um and uh you know people often ask me, you know, have you ever used anything from your real life cases you've done in your books?
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.839
And I always say no because no one would believe me.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:22.640
Yeah.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.640
You would read it and you would go, There's no way that would that would happen.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.880
And you'd throw the book across the room.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:37.839
So the for example, I once represented a guy who tried to rob a post office with a dead seagull.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.440
What?
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:47.759
So this man had a he walked into your post office and he had a seagull by the legs, right?
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.920
And he started bashing the seagull against the security glass, saying, Give me all your money.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:00.720
And then he passed out on the floor, and the police were called and he was arrested.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.680
And went to see him and said, Uh, where did you get the seagull?
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:07.039
Was already dead when he walked in.
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.119
He said, Where did you get the seagull from?
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.200
And he said, I have no idea.
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:15.680
And uh alcohol, a lot of alcohol was involved in this.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:16.880
I was gonna ask you.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:26.480
Um so the but the you know the the difficulty, the difficult part of the case was he was charged with armed robbery.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:37.279
So which created an interesting legal you know point because when you think of being armed, you think of you having someone having a lead pipe or a knife or a gun.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.680
You know, so this was an interesting point of law.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.680
Can you be armed with a large deceased seabird?
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:57.119
So we had a bit of a uh a chat with the judge, and the judge go, he had no idea either, and sort of went, Well, if you get hit around the face with this bird, would it hurt?
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.640
And we went, it probably would.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.559
So you see, God's a big bird.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.359
And he went, well, then he probably was armed.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.279
There's no arguing with that logic, really.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:12.960
So, but if I put that in a book, you know, you'd be going, What the hell is this?
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.239
This is whatever.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.000
It's just a real load of rubbish, this, and you would throw it away.
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:22.320
So I don't, and uh there's loads of stuff like that that's happened.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:29.039
And because you know, mostly criminals aren't I write about I like writing about really smart people.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.239
That's the thing.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.920
So Eddie Flynn is smart.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:39.280
A lot of the villains in my books are you know very you know twisted and damaged people, but a lot of them are very smart as well.
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.599
Because I think that's a good foil for Eddie.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.400
You know, I want someone who's as smart as him to make it.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.000
Yeah, yeah, to challenge him, yeah.
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:47.280
To challenge him.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.239
So um, but in reality, very few villains are are smart.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.840
You know, mostly they're they're really stupid.
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:03.920
Quick example of that we've got a guy who was released to a um it's almost like a halfway house, you would call it.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.320
So he's he's been released from GL, he's on license.
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.599
Please for watching him.
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:16.480
And there was a a corner shop on the corner of a street, and he would go in every day and buy milk and bread there and chat away to the person behind the till.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.320
Um, it was always a lady behind the till, she was a shop owner.
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:24.880
And then he ran out of money and he thought, I'll I'll rob the shop.
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:28.079
So he put on a balaclava and walked in.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:33.119
He had just been in there that morning to buy milk, but he walked in and said, Okay, give me all your money.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.920
And she said, Is that you, John?
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.639
Uh, because she recognized him instantly.
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.000
Uh, because he was still wearing the same clothes that he'd been in that morning.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:50.239
He'd just put a hood on and there was audio of it, and his response was, she said, is that you, John?
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.039
And he said, No, it's somebody else.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:00.559
So it's not, he's that's you know there's no mastermind there.
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:02.320
Yeah.
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:03.440
Oh my god.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.360
Do you is it hard sometimes to keep a straight face?
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:10.320
Sometimes.
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:12.400
Sometimes it's very difficult.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.760
You hear people saying things and it's you're going, oh my god.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:16.639
Really?
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:18.239
Did you just say that?
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.960
And sometimes it's a lawyer saying it.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.000
Yeah, I that would be.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.840
So we uh very quick, very quick example.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:36.400
There was a case of this um this family, uh, and they were all quite every member of the family had been arrested multiple times.
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:44.159
Father and the son, and the brothers and cousins, and everyone was just getting arrested all the time, fighting with each other, and you know, a lot of problems in this family.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.840
And um, they were arresting the grandson who was about 15.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:49.920
There's two big policemen arresting him.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.599
And his granny went out.
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:56.400
Now she was the only one who wasn't regularly arrested, uh, and had never been arrested, I don't think.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:03.440
She went out to remonstrate with the police officer and was so you know, pulling him and saying, Leave my grandson alone.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:09.920
So he was wrestling with the granny, this woman's in her 80s, and he pulled off her false arm.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:23.360
Uh, during this tussle, and I had to represent her, and um, I couldn't do it that day.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:39.920
So another guy in my office went down to do it, and I so he was and the the prosecutors reading out the facts of the case, and we were saying, Well, yes, she did technically put her hands on the police officer, but she's a woman of good standing, and you know, leave her alone, you know, give her a bit of a finger wagging and say, Don't do it again, and let her go.
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.320
Nice woman in her 80s.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:48.639
And um the the solicitor uh who was doing the case said an unfortunate phrase.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:52.239
Um, he said, You know, this uh this lady is of obvious good standing.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:56.719
Um, you know, she wouldn't hurt a fly, she's completely uh harmless.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.800
Meaning to say harmless.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.079
But the judge, the judge started laughing.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.599
And couldn't stop laughing.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:09.920
So he couldn't actually sentence her.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.000
He just would get her out of here because no one couldn't breathe.
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.239
So there's things like this, you put them in a book and no one would believe you, you know.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:21.599
Yeah, I bel yeah.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:23.199
So there you go.
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:24.320
But wow.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:31.599
I'm like, I would read a short story, a short storybook of all of your tales like that from your campaign.
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.320
You should start a podcast.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.039
I would listen, I would have a book podcast.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:46.079
Oh, me and another brilliant Liverpool writer called Luca Veste, and we're very good friends.
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:54.880
And we started in 2016 before there were any real book podcasts, but we were kind of the worst book podcast ever because we never really talked about books.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:07.440
We most we wanted to we wanted to have um the same conversations with writers, mostly crime writers, that we would have like at a festival at like you know uh midnight after we've had a few beers.
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.840
So, you know, for and some writers got it, and they were great episodes and very funny.
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:13.920
And some writers didn't get it at all.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.840
They were like wanting to be interviewed, and it was a bit so it was hit and miss.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.800
It was called Two Crime Writers and a Microphone.
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:21.920
Oh, lovely.
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:23.280
Can you still find it?
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:30.239
So for example, we had Linwood Barclay, who's a fantastic thriller writer, one of the best standalone thriller writers ever.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:48.159
We had Linwood Barclay on, and but not to talk about his new book, he was getting house renovations done, and there were works going on outside, and the the all the building construction crew outside working on the road had put their toilet on his lawn uh right in front of his writing room.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:50.239
So he was taking pictures and putting them online.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:57.280
He was just sitting writing and looking up, and it's just a line of men going to have a crap in his front lawn and this little toilet.
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.920
So we got them all to just largely talk about that.
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.320
And well, a lot of them loved that, a lot of writers loved that because you it wasn't it was totally out of the norm, and you got to know them as a real people.
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:06.800
Yeah.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:11.440
So um, but we have we we sort of we got both of us got too busy to do that.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:12.239
But read Mr.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.800
Veste's books if you get a chance, he's brilliant.
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:15.199
Yeah.
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:15.840
Okay.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:28.159
I was gonna say, I feel like as a reader, it's nice to know, like when we do these interviews, obviously we ask authors questions about their writing, but I also feel like even our listeners love to hear about who who you guys are as people.
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.159
And yeah, I feel like we've learned so much about you just in this interview, and so have our listeners.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:38.800
And if I hadn't read your books, listening to you talk and how funny you are, it would make me want to read your books.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.400
So it's like you know kind of you to say.
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:51.039
It's a good, it's a good way to advertise your books outside of just like here's how I write, because people connect with you as a person and then want to read your books.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.280
Yeah.
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.280
So that's really cool.
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:54.800
Can you still find your podcast?
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.559
Like, is it still on Apple Podcasts?
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:58.000
It's still on somewhere, yeah.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.079
I think the main stuff is I would go listen to that.
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:01.440
So you have a listen.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:01.840
Okay.
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.920
I take no responsibility whatsoever.
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.880
There's some episodes that are good and some are bad.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:13.519
Some of the better episodes were there used to be in a literary award in the UK called the Bad Sex Award.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:14.239
Okay.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:15.280
Oh, okay.
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:22.559
So this was an award for a really badly written sex scene in an otherwise good book.
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:28.079
And we would read out the nominees and sort of try and see where they went wrong.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:35.119
And sometimes it's just two minutes of me laughing and Luca laughing, and we don't know.
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.079
I need to listen to this as soon as possible.
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:52.880
There's because there's various approaches, particularly with English writers, they don't really want to write about sex scenes, or they find it very difficult to do it because you can either do it very descriptively, it becomes quite clinical then, and it's very strange.
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.599
I can never write a sex scene.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.320
Um, and then there are some writers who say, Well, like, I can't do that, I'm gonna go into metaphor.
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.719
So your pages about you know, mountains and valleys and all sorts of stuff.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.039
Is this a geography book or what what the hell is this?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.719
You know, because they completely lose themselves.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.199
You can see that well, I've got to write this sexy and they went, oh no, write something else.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:18.960
Can't put that down.
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:20.960
You know, they get embarrassed themselves.
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:26.400
There's other people you think you read this and you think, I, you know, these people have probably never had sex in their lives.
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.079
It's very strange.
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:29.920
But there you go.
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.840
That's a that's a thing, good thing to Google.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:33.599
The bad sex award, you can have a bit of a laugh.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.960
Oh my gosh, wait, that's really funny.
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:36.639
We are learning so much.
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:48.559
Yeah, we we love to dissect some cringy, we call it cringy dialogue or like cringiest lines, and we have a laugh whenever we do an episode on that.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:52.480
So I can't imagine you guys dissecting.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.039
I would love I'm really gonna try and find that and listen to it because that sounds so entertaining.
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.039
Have a listen again.
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.239
I'd abdicate responsibility for this a long time ago.
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:02.800
Okay.
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:03.280
That's okay.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:04.239
It was fun.
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:05.360
Yeah.
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.639
Why did you guys stop doing it?
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:10.000
It was largely me.
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.840
I just got I had so much on at the time.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.159
I was working and writing, and then it was a whole thing with COVID stuff uh hit.
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.079
So it was largely me.
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:21.119
Um but we used to do like gigs at festivals and stuff.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:26.079
We would do live episodes and we yeah, we we interviewed, we did over a hundred episodes.
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:32.559
We interviewed we kind of talked to everyone we wanted to talk to as well, which is but um no, it was good fun.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:33.840
Yeah, that's fun.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:38.800
I think I mean you're you're booked and busy, obviously, with your books and stuff.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:46.239
So I think that's awesome that you had a chance to do that, and then now you're just writing away.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:47.440
Writing away.
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:48.719
Sharing the words.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:49.679
Yeah.
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.239
Well, and again, I'd leave it to professionals like yourself.
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:53.920
You know, your podcast is is great.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.360
It's brilliant to hear real readers talking about books.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.119
That's what I like to listen to.
00:43:59.519 --> 00:43:59.760
Thank you.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:00.719
Thank you.
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.320
That's very nice.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.000
We're supposed to be complimenting you, not you complimenting us.
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.679
No back into you too.
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:14.159
So back to the courtroom stuff, because I've got a question for you with this.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:18.880
Do you ever watch like courtroom dramas, TV, anything?
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:23.360
And are you is it hard for you to like not be fact-checking stuff?
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.239
Because like you said in your books, you try to keep everything as like correct.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.760
Correct as possible, right?
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:31.039
As as possible, yeah.
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.079
I mean, I take liberties.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:36.880
So, for example, the cases in Eddie Flynn and a lot of the books, they happen quite quickly.
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.920
Because I don't want to leave a two-year gap between a trial a crime and the trial.
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.760
But I'll always invent a very good reason why it happens quickly.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:46.480
You know.
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:52.320
So if I change something, there will be it will be explained and there'll be details to back all that up.
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.039
Sometimes, you know, um, but usually I'm quite forgiving.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.199
If it's a good drama um and it all makes sense, then that's great.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:07.760
And the reader's intelligence or the what or the listeners' intelligence or or viewers' intelligence isn't insulted, I'll be very happy.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.440
There have been some brilliant ones.
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.039
Um my favorite one's Rumpole of the Bailey.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.400
You probably have not heard of this.
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:24.800
So there was an English barrister called Sir John Mortimer, who did lots of uh divorce cases and some interesting cases.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:35.679
He did uh a public decency case because they tried to ban a book, um, Lady Chatterley's Lover, and he was one of the um lawyers who got that book back into print.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:45.280
Um so but he wrote a character called Rumpole of the BLE about a barrister who worked in the OPLA and he defended people, and uh that's brilliant.
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:48.800
And the scenes in that I think you can watch the whole thing on YouTube.
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:57.360
The books are great, they're all little short stories within a volume, but you can watch the whole thing on YouTube, they're very funny and very accurate.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:03.519
Rumpel was a brilliant cross-examiner because they just stuck to what Mortimer did, and he was brilliant doing it.
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:09.280
So a very funny, not dramatic or tense, really, but very funny and humorous.
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:13.119
But you can see the craft of what those courtroom scenes are like.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.960
So probably the best courtroom scenes I've seen, Rumpel of the Bailey.
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:18.000
Okay.
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:21.440
I have to ask, have you ever watched Suits?
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:28.079
I've watched one or two episodes of it, but I've never watched all of it.
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.079
Um, and I'd never watched Better Call Saul until recently.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.519
Um uh so I don't get a lot of time to watch, but I hear Suits is great.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:50.559
I feel like not to compare, but it is uh kind of similar to Eddie Flynn in the fact that he's kind of conning his way into being a lawyer.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.599
Um and I just thought it was really fun.
00:46:53.760 --> 00:47:00.639
I started watching Suits and reading your books at the same time, and I just I thought it was it was kind of fun.
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.199
I have actually stopped watching suits and continued reading your books instead.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:06.159
Oh, good.
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:11.920
Well you can put the suits, um, but then that's that's as long as you're reading the books, that's fantastic.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:12.639
Yeah.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:18.719
No, I uh I mean there's only so much time, and I think I would rather read books.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:23.599
Yeah, read books, and I I love listening to your audiobooks.
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:30.400
I don't know if you have any say in your narrator at all, but he's incredible, he does a fantastic job.
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:33.440
Like he is Eddie Flynn, yeah.
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:45.039
Yeah, Adam Sims is Eddie Flynn for a lot of people, and I I was lucky I got a an option for the first book, and I had a couple of people, and I went, well, I like this guy.
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:51.519
And um Adam was brilliant and it's continued on, and uh I have no complaints with him.
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:52.320
He's brilliant.
00:47:52.559 --> 00:48:13.760
I can't listen to the books, I listen to a little bit of each of them, but the way he narrates the books is brilliant and dramatic because he's a proper actor, and I've I've you know I've done an interview and stuff with Adam, and he's a lovely man, but his cadence and his rhythm is different from the cadence and rhythm that I have in my head for Eddie.
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:24.159
So I don't I can't I don't want it to Adam's rhythm, which is much better than mine, to get into my head because it might interrupt the way I hear Eddie.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:25.440
Yeah, that is.
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.400
Because I don't really have a good mental picture of him.
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.880
I was just gonna ask if you had a fan cast for any of your characters, so that answers that.
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.559
No, I don't I don't.
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:45.360
Although we are you know we're looking at Eddie Flynn's at the moment, um but uh I I don't I don't have a I don't have a picture of my head.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:52.639
I and that's the deliberate thing because um I only very barely described in the books.
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.360
I only give a very rough description of them in some of the books.
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:16.800
Some of the books there's no description of them at all, and that's because I kind of want you to create your version of what he is in your mind, and it'll be different from for every every one of you, but that means that you have a personal connection with that character that is totally connected to you, and I haven't interfered with it.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:47.599
Um, I remember I was reading uh again Michael Connolly's Harry Bosch series, and I read them out of order, and I was reading one book, and there's a bit where and it was one of the early books, they might have been The Black Echo, the first one, which is a masterpiece, but it's a bit where Harry uh Harry Bosch is standing in front of the mirror, and you know, he's combing his hair, and he's uh Michael described his aquiline features and you know heroic jaw, and then there's a bit where Harry Bosch combs his mustache, and I nearly dropped the book.
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:54.000
But in the other books, Harry Bosch doesn't have a mustache, there's no mention of a mustache, yeah.
00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:00.320
Suddenly has a mustache, and it really broke me out of that because in my head he he didn't have a mustache.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:00.639
Yeah.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:05.199
I almost wanted Harry Bosch doesn't have a mustache, it's no mistake, you know.
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:34.320
So I'm I've been I've learned from from Michael's mustache that uh I I I leave the the the the creation of the character to you, but that also makes a rod from my own back because you know if Ellie does make it under the screen, then it won't suit anyone because each of you will have a very individual unless you so happen to imagine an actor who eventually plays him, then you'll have you know it won't it won't it won't work for you exactly.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:54.239
I feel like with book adaptations, readers can be so nitpicky on the physical aspects of the characters, like if the eye color doesn't match or whatever, but I think and I think these two would agree, I think it's more important to have someone who embodies the character really well and where Eddie is such a strong character.
00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:03.360
I think any of your readers would understand to like let go of the physical aspects as long as you know he is Eddie Flynn, yeah, acting-wise.
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:04.960
So I hope so.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:05.599
I hope so.
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:18.960
I mean that's why I I a lot of people complained when Tom Cruise uh did Jack Reacher, but I thought that first movie they really captured how Jack Reacher thinks, and for me he's a very cerebral character, so they did things well.
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:26.239
People more some people love the TV show because the actor's much physically more resembles the character, and it's up to the individual.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:34.159
But the thing that Lee will always say is the books are there, the books haven't changed, and they're exactly you know, and they're a different thing.
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:56.159
I think I also, depending on the book, will envision Eddie Flynn differently, not necessarily because of anything you did, but just because it's not very descriptive that I think it kind of changes, and so maybe I have a person that's Eddie Flynn, but there's it's kind of like a blurry face.
00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:57.039
Does that make sense?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:06.400
Like, okay, and so like I don't think a lot of people would be upset if you guys picked an Eddie Flynn that you felt embodied Eddie Flynn.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:13.039
I think you guys would be surprised with people's reaction and they would be uh thrilled.
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:24.320
I think sometimes people authors do them a disservice when they describe a character too much because if it doesn't then fit, then I think there's an uproar in readers.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:31.199
But because there's not a huge description, I don't think you've done yourself a disservice at all with Eddie.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.679
So I'm I'm excited.
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:40.320
I'm um can we uh discuss your little comment about you're looking for Eddie Flynn's?
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.480
Yeah, can you expand at all or no?
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:52.239
I will sort of with the past two years I've been working with some brilliant people to try and bring it to a a TV series, but we'll see.
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:59.360
We have scripts and they're great, and we have you know, we have showrunners and writers and production companies and everything.
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:05.360
People have spent a lot of money um so far in development, and I'm very happy to be working with people I'm working with.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:06.400
They're the best people for it.
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:06.960
That's amazing.
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.320
The only thing we don't have is a a little green light yet.
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:15.360
But we're all very hopeful because we know it'll happen sooner rather than later.
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:25.280
Um so we'll do that, and then one of my which I can't say which one, one of my standalone books we're we're sort of developing into a a movie with a major studio as well.
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.039
So I've read the script for that, and it's great.
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:29.599
And looking for a director at the moment.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:31.119
Oh well, congrats.
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.280
That's amazing, amazing news.
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:39.199
Well, I can't this may be the last you hear of any of it because Hollywood being what it is, but oh yeah, yeah, sure.
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:41.519
Still even the thought and the hope of it.
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:42.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:43.199
Wow.
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.679
I'm we'll we'll start a petition.
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:47.679
It needs to come.
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:57.519
This is um kind of a little bit off topic, but and we should have asked this at the beginning, but do you have a preferred reading order that people read your books?
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:06.719
Would you suggest to start with Eddie Flynn, or is there a different standalone book that you think this is a really great jumping point or starting point with my writing?
00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:08.639
Do you have a preference or do you not care?
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:17.760
Um well, I have I had a plan for this because when I I love uh reading series books, um, and in all different genres.
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:22.400
You know, I love fantasy series, well, I love um crime series, everything.
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:32.719
So um, one of the worst things you know, that are or more challenging things that I've experienced is someone will recommend the series to me and say it's great.
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:34.559
Now you have to read them in order.
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:42.639
First couple of books aren't great, but the fourth one, oh my god, and then you're in like going, well, hang on, do I have to read three sort of okay books?
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:44.719
Power pick of these books.
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:46.719
Um, so I didn't want that.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.800
So they're all every single book is written to be a complete standalone story.
00:54:53.039 --> 00:55:00.239
And it has to work for two readers, has to work for the people who've read all the books, and for the people who have never read any of the books.
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.199
And that's something I put a lot of work in.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:07.920
So if you've read them all, uh I'm not telling you anything you don't know already.
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.880
You know, every everything has to be fresh and new for you.
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:13.199
You're being reintroduced to all the characters.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:19.599
I don't want a new reader to think, hang on, I've missed something out here, or I'm I've come late to the party.
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:25.039
They're all written to be read in any order you want, and you can pick them up in any order.
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:27.039
Um, so there is no order for that.
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:30.239
And I've I've written a couple of standalone books.
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:33.440
Um, and you and it's different from for every country.
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:38.159
So, you know, like in Poland, most people know me for a book I wrote called Twisted.
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:48.639
In the US, most people know me for either two books: either Kill for Me, Kill for You, which is a standalone outside the series, or 13 um or 50-50.
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:54.960
So um it's different, and then there are, but you can start in any order you want.
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:59.599
And the thing is, I think I'm a I'm a better writer now than I was when I started.
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:02.880
So the first book is not my best book.
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.519
I was still learning and trying to figure out how to be a writer.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.480
I think as the books go on, I think they get better.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:09.360
Oh, yeah.
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:14.480
Well, I can attest because I started my the first book I read by you was 5050.
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:15.039
Right.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:21.599
And I had seen someone post like a TikTok that was like, you can read them out of order, like it doesn't matter.
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.119
That one just grabbed my attention and I started with that one.
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:32.079
But then the second I finished it, I was like, wait, I gotta go start from book like I was ready to start book one and continue on.
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:38.320
And so, yeah, for anyone listening, you can start anywhere, but you will want to start from the beginning.
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:39.760
I'm pretty certain.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:40.159
Yeah.
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:54.239
So oh yeah, but oh, once you've read one, the the idea is oh think, well, I quite you know, I didn't know this was a because it it doesn't I I'm not I've sort of been writing a series in secret because it does it doesn't say in any of my books an Eddie Flynn novel or something like that.
00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:04.880
Because they didn't want to put off time first-time readers, they're all written to invite first-time readers in sake, and they're all they've all got their individual hooks um on the cover.
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:07.199
You know, what if it's a serial killer on a jury?
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:12.000
You know, what if two sisters are accused of murder and they they're they're accusing each other?
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:15.840
Um, one of them is the killer of which one, um, stuff like this.
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:21.679
So you've got all the hooks, and people read and think, and I hope they think, I quite like these characters.
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.199
I I'll read another one.
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:25.440
And yes, hopefully you buy them all.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:26.320
Yes.
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:31.199
You have the best hooks, but also what I appreciate is you deliver on those hooks.
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:38.480
Sometimes there's hooks on thrillers and they don't really meet your expectations, but yours are always so good.
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.599
So good.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:40.480
Thank you.
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:41.519
Thank you very much.
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:43.039
I really appreciate that.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:45.119
That's that's that's lovely to hear.
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:57.440
I've also grown a really fond attachment to all of your characters, and um you will be paying for my fair therapy bill for a few of your books.
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:04.960
I won't say which ones, but Okay, I won't be talking about I was wrecked.
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:17.760
I won't say anything else, but I think after that book, I was like, I would suggest reading them in order if you like a good like attachment to characters.
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:25.840
But you do a very good job of like if anyone were to pick up any of your books, they would know exactly what's going on.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:30.880
And so I think you do both very, very, very well.
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:32.480
Thank you.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.400
That's very kind of you to say.
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:36.639
Again, that particular book.
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:42.880
Um, yeah, there are some characters I there are some characters who reoccur, and not everybody makes it in my books.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:43.920
We'll say that.
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:53.760
But even if you've read one of the later ones, um, if you go back then to read a book, maybe where something happens to that character.
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:59.360
Uh, and I've had this before from some readers who've done this, you still won't see it coming.
00:58:59.519 --> 00:58:59.920
Yeah.
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:04.239
When something does happen to that character, again, because it's written that way.
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.880
You'll still have the same shock and surprise.
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:07.440
Yeah.
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:09.360
That is such talent, genuinely.
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:10.480
That's crazy.
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:11.199
That's crazy.
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:11.920
Yes.
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:16.159
Ugh You're just talented, and we love we love talking to talented people.
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:16.960
Yes.
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:28.960
Is there a storyline that you have been wanting to write for a while that maybe you haven't, or maybe you have just barely started, like outside of what you already have out?
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.920
Yes, I'm writing a book at the moment.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:34.400
Um which is a standalone.
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:37.920
So the book currently out in the US is two kinds of strangers.
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:42.159
Um, the book that's coming out in March is called One of Us Is Guilty.
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:42.639
Oh.
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:48.719
Um, and that is I'd written a book before called 5050 about those two sisters.
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:55.920
And the reason I wrote that is a lot of crime novels, you know, there'll be a murderer and there'll be five or six suspects.
00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:57.920
And which one is the killer?
00:59:58.079 --> 00:59:59.440
That mystery element.
00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:03.280
But I wanted to see if I could do it with just two suspects.
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:10.719
And for each chap, you've read two sisters, and you're reading the book going, Oh, it's definitely it's Alexandra, she's the killer, she's the killer.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:13.599
You turn the page, oh, I got it totally wrong, it's Sophia.
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.719
And for as much as I can, the whole book to go like that.
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:24.960
Yeah, but because of the nature of my writing of that book, you couldn't really get inside both sisters' heads.
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:32.400
There is, you do see it from a good part of the book from one of their points of view, which is simply known as she.
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:39.920
It's one of the sisters, and you see exactly how she's done it and what she's up to, but you don't know which sister it is.
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.920
But then uh you can't be in the other sister's head.
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:49.760
So one of us is guilty, is um my attempt to kind of rectify that.
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:54.239
So this book is about a toxic power couple.
01:00:54.559 --> 01:01:04.400
So Gone Girl was recently voted um like the number one thriller um in the New York Times of the last 25 years or something, and so it is, it's a great book.
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:05.440
I love that book.
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:06.800
I love that toxic couple.
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.719
You don't know what's going on with them, they're both kind of weird and creepy.
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.559
Yeah, and I wanted to do my I wanted to do my own creepy weird couple book.
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:15.360
Yeah.
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:29.440
So one of us is guilty is um uh is uh Patrick and Vanessa, and Patrick is the son of this media mogul, and he's running for governor of New York City, but he's having an affair.
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:43.119
And uh the book opens on the events of one night when he realizes his mistress, he's in his mistress's apartment, and he realizes and she's his assistant, he realizes she's been lying to him from the day he met her.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.639
And she has information which could be really damning to him.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:02:02.480
That same night, his wife Vanessa figures out and realizes for sure he's having an affair with this woman, and she goes to the apartment, and we know both have been in the apartment that night, and we know the next morning the mistress is found dead.
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.519
Oh and both Patrick and Vanessa are lying to the police and lying to each other.
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:10.719
But you again, you don't really know why.
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:16.880
So I that's that's the book for next year, and Eddie Flynn comes in to represent um Vanessa.
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:27.679
Uh and he is who'll only and Ellie's the other thing is for a con man who tricks and cons people all the time, he's a very moral character, he'll only represent someone he believes is innocent.
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:35.199
This one, this time, he knows she's not telling him the truth, but he also kind of can't he can't let her go.
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:40.000
He thinks Vanessa is really a victim and he's gonna help her in any way he can.
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:43.840
So, um but he wonders all the time through the book, have I got this wrong?
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:46.320
So that's a fun one for next year.
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:51.840
But the book I'm writing at the minute is a story, it's an idea I had a couple of years ago for a standalone.
01:02:52.079 --> 01:03:02.800
And um it's like a serial killer chase across uh America with uh a hostage into it.
01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:11.519
So um uh and it's that interplay between this the person who's been taken hostage and the serial killer and what happens to them.
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:17.199
Um and what if you know you're kicked up by a serial killer, they know where you live.
01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:28.719
The police have put in it put out an APV and there's a description of this killer, and the killer sits down a train and says, The police are looking for me, they're not looking for two people.
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:31.039
You're coming with me, we're going to New York.
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:37.519
He takes the person's wallet and says, I know where you live, I know where your what your your address is, I know what your wife looks like.
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:42.000
If you try and do anything or alert anyone, I'm gonna get away.
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:44.159
The first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna kill your wife.
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:45.920
So you're stuck with me.
01:03:46.480 --> 01:04:02.960
And as they go across America, they're pursued by this female FBI agent, and she sort of gets the there are some clues pointing to the identity of this killer, but it's sort of leading her to believe that it's not the killer, it's leading them to believe that the hostage is the murderer.
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:09.679
So you're taking hostage, and then the police think you're the killer, and the whole thing takes place over three days.
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:11.519
So that's what I'm mining at the moment.
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:13.280
That's so cool.
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.519
Oh, and there's a twister six along the way.
01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:16.880
Okay.
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:17.920
Or six.
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:18.960
Twister six.
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:21.599
I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love a good book about a serial killer.
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:22.000
Yeah.
01:04:22.159 --> 01:04:24.559
So I think Yeah, fascinating.
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:25.199
Yeah.
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:25.599
Yeah.
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:30.159
The one with um is that 50-50 on the where he's on the jury?
01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:31.039
Thirteen.
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:33.119
Yeah.
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:34.239
Crazy.
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:35.679
Oh my gosh.
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:54.559
They kind of all blend together in my brain, like just like titles, but like there's there's very distinctly different cases for and they're just the way you write your villains are unlike anything I have read, and I love it.
01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:55.599
I love it.
01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:56.320
Thank you.
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:58.480
It's like twisted, entertaining times.
01:04:58.719 --> 01:04:59.119
Yes.
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:04.559
Yeah, they have to be all, you know, very scary, um, but real as well.
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:10.880
So I do like you to see them as real people, which maybe even makes them slightly more scary.
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:12.719
Oh.
01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:15.519
Well, so tell us.
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:17.599
What are you currently reading right now?
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:18.880
Anything good?
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.599
Uh, what am I reading at the moment?
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.440
Um I have a few books on the go at the moment.
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:32.880
So um I uh have been catching up on the Slow Horses books by my friend Mick Herron.
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:38.639
I don't know if you've watched the Apple TV series, but the books are brilliant uh and really funny and entertaining.
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:44.800
It's about a anyone who hasn't read them, it's about a group of spies uh in London.
01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:47.280
Uh have you read any of the Slow Horses books?
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:49.280
No, how have I not heard about this?
01:05:50.079 --> 01:06:14.559
So it's about um a group of so you have MI5 who you're in Regents Park in London, and if you do something wrong as a spy, say you make a major mess up of something, uh they they don't fire you, they send you to this place called Slough House, which is this decrepit building uh in London where all the bad spies you know go.
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:32.800
And that building is run by this character called Jackson Lamb, who's played by Gary Oldman in the series, and he is um a really disgusting man, but he's also like he was a spy during the Cold War, he's also the smartest person in the whole Secret Service, okay.
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:36.159
Um, and they get up to lots of chips and make lots of mistakes.
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:39.679
Um, but they're very, very funny and very well written.
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:42.639
Um, and London's a great character in those books.
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:47.519
So they're the first one's called Slow Horses uh by Mick Heron.
01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:49.440
So uh I would recommend those.
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:50.880
What else would I recommend?
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.199
Um quite a very quick recommendation for fantasy stuff because I know you read a lot of fantasy.
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:58.800
Um uh Joe Abercrombie's The Devils.
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:00.880
Yes, I started that.
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:02.079
I really enjoyed that.
01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:03.360
That's really good fun.
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.480
It's kind of like the dirty dozen, but like a fantasy version of that.
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:18.559
Yeah, where you have, you know, um a werewolf and a laconic vampire, and you know, a terrible magician and an elf and somebody else and a cursed knight all have to go on this mission.
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:20.559
So I I thought that was a fun read.
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.519
Yeah, that's fun.
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.599
He does a good job at like intertwining humor with his fantasy books.
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:27.599
He does, they're all very funny.
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:29.440
I love a band of misfits.
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:36.480
I read the devils, and it was just like the perfect band of misfits together trying to accomplish one goal and they're fighting and they're they don't get along.
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:37.199
I just love it.
01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:38.159
It's so good.
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:40.480
It's really good, really good.
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:42.239
I'm excited to finish it.
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:47.920
I'm uh me and my husband are listening to it together, and uh we're enjoying it so far.
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:50.480
So it's good as fun.
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:51.760
Awesome.
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:55.519
Well, we just had the greatest time chatting with you.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.440
Yeah, we could listen to your stories all day.
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:08.960
So thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us, and we will leave all of your info where to find you in our show notes.
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:17.920
Um, it sounds like for anyone who hasn't yet read your books, hopefully this was a good introduction to start them.
01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:20.880
And people who are familiar with you have a lot to look forward to.
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:26.560
So I know I am very excited for what's coming next.
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:29.439
But we just wanted to say thank you so much for your time.
01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:32.479
And yeah, we just really appreciate it.
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:33.439
Yeah, thank you.
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:34.960
No, no, it's been really fun.
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:36.319
Thank you so much for having me here.
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:39.199
Really appreciate it, and thank you for all of you recommending books.
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:46.079
It's fantastic to see you know how well you're you've you've done and um more power to you and and keep going.
01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:47.199
It's great to see.
01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:48.960
Thank you so much.
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:11.039
Hi guys, welcome back to I'll read what she's reading.
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:11.759
I'm Michaela.
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.679
I'm Reggie, and I'm Kennedy.
00:00:13.839 --> 00:00:16.719
And today we have a very, very special guest.
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:20.879
We have the wonderful and talented Steve Kavanaugh.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:22.719
We are so excited to have you on.
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:23.920
Say hello.
00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:25.120
Hello.
00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:26.640
Thank you so much for having me on.
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:28.239
It's a real honor and a pleasure.
00:00:28.399 --> 00:00:30.160
So no, I'm looking forward to this.
00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:31.120
Thank you so much.
00:00:31.519 --> 00:00:36.240
Our listeners have heard us yap about your books for months and months and months now.
00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:38.640
And so we're excited to have you.
00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:40.640
It's like a full circle moment for us.
00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:41.119
Yeah.
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:42.560
Oh, great.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:43.039
Me too.
00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.560
No, I I remember when you you put a video on and lots of people were clicking on it and sharing it.
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.920
And so that was great for me.
00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:50.719
Thank you.
00:00:51.119 --> 00:00:51.280
Yeah.
00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:52.240
You're so welcome.
00:00:52.399 --> 00:00:54.799
We're happy to post about you and talk about you anytime.
00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:57.679
Yeah, it is very well deserved.
00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:07.359
So we have a few rapid fire questions, just a little icebreaker before we get into like the nitty-gritty questions.
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.159
So let's do the rapid fire.
00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:14.159
Okay, starting off, coffee or tea?
00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:15.599
Coffee.
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:16.159
Coffee.
00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:16.799
Okay.
00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:17.439
All right.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:21.120
Uh morning rider or night riding?
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:24.319
Uh night writing, I think, is best.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:26.079
Morning writing is more difficult for me.
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:27.359
I have lots to do in the morning.
00:01:27.439 --> 00:01:36.079
I've I I'm I have children that take to schools and colleges, and I have a small dog that tortures me, so morning writing is difficult.
00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:44.079
Um and I'm also a friend with E Child who says that nothing of any value is ever accomplished in the morning, which I tend to agree with.
00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:46.319
Yeah, like it.
00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:47.280
I like that.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:50.640
Uh do you like reading a hardcover or a paperback?
00:01:51.519 --> 00:01:52.719
Um I like both.
00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:55.599
Um if I'm traveling, definitely a paperback.
00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:01.120
Um, but if it's a new book that whatever I'm an author I love, I have to have it in hardback to read.
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.799
So it depends on the author.
00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:03.680
Okay.
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:06.319
Do you use a Kindle at all or like an e-reader?
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:11.599
No, I find that if I read a book on a Kindle, I can't take it in in the same way.
00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:14.000
Um and there's been studies done on that.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:24.159
So if you and there's lots of people I know, friends of mine, who do read on Kindle because they have to, you know, expand the text to make it easier to read, and that's totally fine.
00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:27.520
But you don't take it in in the same way as you do reading a physical book.
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:29.759
That's still the best technology for reading.
00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:31.039
I could see that.
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:31.360
Yeah.
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:39.280
It took me forever to get a Kindle until they just convinced me because I was like, no, I have to read my hardcover books or paperback.
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:41.039
But Kindle's nice for traveling.
00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:41.680
I will say that.
00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:42.960
Oh, it's great for traveling, yeah.
00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:46.319
If you're going away on a two-week holiday, a Kindle is the perfect thing.
00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:47.039
Yeah.
00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:50.479
There's nothing that beats like a physical like page turning off.
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:51.520
So you know.
00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:54.000
It's the endorphins when you turn the page.
00:02:56.719 --> 00:02:57.199
All right.
00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.159
What's your favorite courtroom drama?
00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:05.599
Oh, um, like a movie or book?
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:06.560
Yeah, anything.
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.360
Oh, uh I love a few good men.
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:13.439
I'm a big Aaron Sorkin fan.
00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:15.680
So I love a few good few good men.
00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.039
Even though the courtroom scenes aren't, if you're looking at it from a lawyer point of view, how it would really work.
00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:22.319
They're kind of silly.
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.159
But um, you know, Tom Cruise is amazing and Jack Nicholson's amazing.
00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:27.360
So yeah, I would say that.
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:28.240
A few good men.
00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:29.520
That's a really good.
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:30.719
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:32.000
All right.
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:36.000
Do you write listening to music or it does it have to be silent?
00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:38.400
Um, it depends.
00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:48.800
So if I'm in a first draft mood and I want to get a lot of words done, I have a like a playlist, which is mostly uh instrumental stuff, and I'll put that on and I'll write.
00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.840
If I'm in a coffee shop, I'll stick earbuds in and I'll write.
00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:57.199
If I'm editing or if I'm tinkering with something I've already written, I have to have silence.
00:03:57.759 --> 00:03:59.120
So it's a little bit of both.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.039
A little bit of everything.
00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.960
Alright, do you prefer writing courtroom scenes or action scenes?
00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:08.639
What's your favorite?
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.840
I prefer an action scene because they're easier.
00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.319
Yeah, I can see the courtroom scenes in my butt.
00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:22.639
I really made a rod for my own back with his character Eddie Flynn because he's much smarter than me.
00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:31.360
And each little courtroom scene scene in the book, there's a little twist into every scene that you won't see coming and the witness won't see coming.
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.079
And they're hard, they're hard to do.
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:36.560
So uh action scenes are much easier for me.
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:42.079
Hey, but Eddie Flynn comes from your brain, so you're as smart as him in my opinion.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:42.560
Yes.
00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.040
Well, he d he does it all on the f you know, with very little preparation.
00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:53.519
I have to think a long time to get those things right, um, whereas he's doing it in real time.
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.920
You know, I have a time machine and I'm still, you know, I'm struggling to get this right.
00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.560
So oh, that's so fun.
00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:09.040
I I just love the way your brain works and it translates into these books because they make it really fun for your readers.
00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.160
So thank you.
00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:15.360
Thank you for putting the time and energy and creating Eddie Flynn.
00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:15.839
Yes.
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:16.959
Oh, thank you.
00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:18.560
That's quite kind of you.
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:26.000
What's really cool about Eddie Flynn, especially, is just the fact that like your courtroom scenes are just as fun as the action scenes.
00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:32.879
And I feel like not that it I feel like it would be hard to do, but I almost love the courtroom scenes more because they're so dramatic.
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:33.439
Oh, yeah.
00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:35.279
I'm always like, I gotta get my popcorn ready.
00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:35.519
Yes.
00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:38.399
I'm always just sat and buckled.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:46.319
Yeah, that's why I started writing them because you know, like John Grisham's the biggest legal thriller writer in the world.
00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.360
Um, you know, undeservedly so, he's a great storyteller.
00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:56.000
But there are very few courtroom scenes in his novels, and certainly his best books have no courtroom scenes at all.
00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.959
Like The Firm is a suspense masterpiece, yeah.
00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.600
But there's no courtroom scenes in it whatsoever.
00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:19.120
And I wanted to try and because I did courtroom work myself, and I was really interested in that psychological battle that happens between a lawyer and a witness, where every word used by that lawyer is a weapon, and it's a real psychological and linguistic battle.
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:26.399
Um, so I wanted to try and bring that into and they are very traumatic scenes, and I want to try that's what I thought I could do in my books.
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:27.360
And so thank you.
00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:29.920
If I'm doing it right by you, that's good.
00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:30.399
Thank you.
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:33.839
You're doing it very, very well for real.
00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:42.959
Um I we have a little bit of a silly question, and maybe you can't answer because this would give away anything for what you're writing next.
00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:47.279
But what's the most suspicious thing you've Googled recently?
00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.120
Oh I Google lots of suspicious things.
00:06:51.439 --> 00:07:01.759
Um so for the book that's coming out that is out in US at the moment is two kinds of stranger.
00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:02.160
Yes.
00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.600
So for that, I had to Google and find out how to dig up a body.
00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:22.800
Okay, okay and how long it would take and how to do it very efficiently, and I had to find out about US caskets, because in the in the UK and Ireland we have coffins, whereas in the US they're caskets and they're different.
00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:32.160
And you know, they'll they'll have half lids, you know, um uh in the US, whereas we don't, there's just a full lid that goes down.
00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:42.560
Plus, and also in some of the caskets in certain states, there has to be this little um key, a secret compartment in every casket.
00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:48.959
So um, especially so if you're in like in Louisiana, it's not legal to be buried without one of these.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:08:04.160
So it's a little key that you use to open up the secret compartment in the bottom of the casket, and inside is a little glass vial, and in that vial it'll say the name of the person who's in the the coffin or the casket, the date of their date of birth and the date they died.
00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.920
And this is because in certain states it's not unusual if there's flooding.
00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:15.199
You know, for example, in New Orleans, you cannot be buried beneath the ground, you have to be buried above the ground because it's all swampland.
00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:17.360
You just come up and float down the street.
00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:26.560
So um, and where they have floods and stuff, you know, and if there is some kind of natural disaster, they have to be able to know, okay, you know, who's in there?
00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.079
Oh, we opened the key, all right.
00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:28.879
That's who it is.
00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:29.839
They put it in.
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.920
So I've Googled lots of stuff like this.
00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:40.320
For the book that's coming out in March, I had to look up a bit of law that is, and we'll talk about this later on if you like.
00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:51.679
A bit of law that we have here, and I wanted to see if it was the same in America, because if I do, I do I mention very little law in my books, so any law that is there is is correct.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:09:08.799
So there's an obscure piece of law in in America that say, for example, um your your spouse confessed to you that they had killed someone, you're not legally allowed to testify about that.
00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:14.240
Yeah, you can't mention that at all in court, you're not allowed to.
00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:18.240
And that's a really obscure piece of law which comes from an old common law thing.
00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:24.559
So I have to see if that if that existed in the US and how it works and how it's applied, and it's still very much in force.
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.200
So that's that's uh for the book next year.
00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.480
So I Google all sorts of weird, wonderful, crazy things.
00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:32.720
Yeah, I would love search history.
00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.240
Yeah, seriously, a page of all of your search history.
00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:37.679
It'll be hard, you know.
00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:51.200
My search history is you know how to bury a body, um, you know, cute cute dog videos and you know, you know, stuff like that, you know, sneakers, um, and weird, you know, it's it's very random.
00:09:51.600 --> 00:09:53.279
Yeah, duality of Steve Kavanaugh.
00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:53.919
Yeah, I love that.
00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.399
You go from dog videos and there's lots of layers.
00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:57.759
Yeah, I love it.
00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:58.240
I love it.
00:09:58.399 --> 00:09:59.440
We're seeing all sides.
00:09:59.600 --> 00:09:59.840
Yeah.
00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:04.000
So, like you mentioned, and if people couldn't already tell, you are based in Ireland.
00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:05.759
But your Yes, in Northern Ireland.
00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:12.559
Yes, and your books, the Eddie Flynn series specifically, or uh is that all your books are based in New York City?
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:14.080
Pretty much all of them.
00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:15.279
There's a few that aren't.
00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.000
Um, but yes, they're all set in the States.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:18.480
Okay.
00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.080
I think I just read the one that was based in Kentucky.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:25.279
Oh, um Alabama, the devil's gonna be a little bit of a big Alabama.
00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:26.960
Alabama, yes.
00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:28.000
Alabama.
00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:29.360
Okay.
00:10:29.440 --> 00:10:30.240
I yeah.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:30.559
Yeah.
00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:38.080
What was it that what was it that made you decide to write and base your books there versus in Ireland?
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:39.919
A couple of things.
00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:46.000
Um uh when I started writing, I was a lawyer, a civil rights and criminal lawyer in Northern Ireland.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:56.639
And I didn't want to when I had the idea for like a lawyer, I was cross-examining someone one day, and I kind of conned them into revealing that they were lying.
00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:05.840
And it struck me then that con artists and trial lawyers have all the same skills distraction, misdirection, persuasion, and manipulation.
00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:08.799
And I thought that's a good idea for a character.
00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:17.279
And so when I started writing, I didn't want to come home from being a lawyer uh in Northern Ireland and start writing about a fictional sort of version of me.
00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.480
I thought that wouldn't work.
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:23.759
And I always loved American crime fiction, so I thought, I wonder if could I set it in the US?
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:37.120
Also, the problem is we have a dual system of representation, so we have solicitors, like the people who wear suits and being in office, and we have barristers who wear funny white wigs and gowns and stuff.
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:41.600
I was a solicitor advocate, so I did both of those jobs up to a certain point.
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.000
I wasn't allowed to do a murder trial on my own.
00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:50.639
Um but uh I thought that's all I don't want to have a character in a funny wig and a gown.
00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:53.279
It wouldn't suit the type of book I wanted to write.
00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:57.919
Um, you know, because the first book, The Defense, is quite fast-paced, and then he's running around.
00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.600
He would get his coke caught, you know, in a door or something when he's running around.
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:02.399
It wouldn't work.
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.639
So uh I thought if I set it in the US, that solves the problem.
00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:13.200
And two of my big influences are John Connolly, the Dublin crime writer and Lee Child.
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:16.320
Um, and Lee's from Birmingham, you know.
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.639
So uh I thought, well, they they're not American, they set books in America.
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:22.000
Uh I could do that.
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:27.120
The only difference is both John and Lee had spent you know many years in America before they started writing.
00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:30.960
I wrote the first Eddie three Eddie Flynn books, and I had never been to America.
00:12:31.279 --> 00:12:32.399
Well, you would never know.
00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:32.799
Yeah.
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:34.159
Never been.
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:36.080
I went after it published the third one.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:38.320
I thought I'd better go and see what this place is like.
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.600
So are you on Google Maps a lot or Google Earth?
00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:44.720
A little bit.
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:49.039
Uh the first book is sort of set in like a fictional courthouse, and it's fictional for a reason.
00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.559
Um and uh I I I just don't know.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.799
I I also cheat a wee bit by setting those first few books are all in New York.
00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:06.960
And if you've never been to New York City, every single person, uh you know, pretty much who's ever watched TV will have a very good mental image of what New York's like anyway.
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:07.279
Yeah.
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:11.120
You know, you've seen Ghostbusters, you've seen Spider-Man, you know what New York's like.
00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:15.200
So I can very easily tap into your sense of that city.
00:13:15.759 --> 00:13:20.480
Um and when you're creating something in fiction, it kind of ceases to exist.
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.879
My New York's different from other crime writers who set their stuff in New York.
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:28.480
I I'm just using it as a bit of a canvas for the books.
00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:36.639
So um, yeah, but it's it solves lots of problems, and you get it's New York's this kind of city where you think anything can happen there, you know, for sure.
00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:40.080
And lots of crazy stuff has happened in New York and continues to.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.600
So um, yeah, it's a it's a great place to set a crime novel.
00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:48.159
Alabama was good too, um, but I can't go back to Alabama now.
00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:51.120
Having written that book, I uh yeah.
00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:53.759
Yeah, I'll I'll give it a miss.
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:55.519
Beautiful place, but I'll give it a miss.
00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.840
So wait, this is like kind of off topic, but where's your favorite place that you've traveled to in the United States?
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:02.799
Do you have a favorite place?
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.840
Like, is it New York?
00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:06.399
Oh, I I don't want to say a favorite place.
00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:12.240
I've been to so many brilliant places, um uh and some not so brilliant places as well.
00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:17.679
Um so I was recently in uh in Cleveland.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:18.320
Oh, okay.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:25.759
And I I visited a fantastic, I did a brilliant event there in a place outside of the Cleveland City Center.
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:29.519
And when I was outside of the city centre, it was beautiful.
00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.759
But uh when I was inside the city centre, it wasn't so beautiful.
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.559
Um have you seen the new Superman movie?
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.039
No, it was like a Superman movie.
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:41.120
Yeah, it's the new Superman guy.
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:44.879
There's a Supergirl movie which I haven't seen, there's a Superman that Superman movie.
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:50.240
The end of that, there's a big fight scene with a monster or something, and the whole street is wrecked.
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:57.679
You know, there's cars crushed and people lying on the street, and he defeats the monster, and then they go into this beautiful mall, him and Lois Lane.
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.879
And the you can see this on YouTube.
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:08.480
Uh, it's the last scene where they he flies up with her and they kiss, and this gorgeous mall, it's like a Victorian beautiful thing.
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:14.559
Well, I was in that street, and I was in that mall, and the mall's empty in the movie, and in real life, it's empty too.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:20.720
There's a hairdresser's and there is a um like an antique shop, and that's it, the whole thing's empty.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:31.360
And the street is exactly like it is in the movie, with cars and fire and people lying in the street, and it was just like when I watched the movie, I thought they've spent a fortune, you know, on this.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:34.960
There's rubble everywhere, but that's just Cleveland.
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:39.360
I was in the hotel and I I do this thing when I'm on tour.
00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.919
It's a tip given to me many years ago by a very famous crime writer that I won't mention.
00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:56.320
But he said, you know, when you're going on tour, uh try not to check a bag in America because you know, take ages, just you know, bring carry-on and you'll get through all the airports because you're getting on a plane every day to go somewhere else.
00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:04.960
So he said, Bring, you know, um socks and underwear and just leave them behind and just buy new ones when you're there to travel light.
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:06.159
That's great.
00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:13.840
So uh I was at the stage where I needed to buy socks, so I went to the hotel and I said, Is there like a store around here I can I can buy socks?
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:19.600
And they looked at me and said, No, there's no place you can buy socks in the center of Cleveland.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:21.440
You're joking me.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:22.240
I said, No.
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:27.840
I yeah, there's a mall, like there was two massive malls beside the hotel, both of them all closed down.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:35.840
So, but um I I at the same time I had a brilliant time in Cleveland, and the place I was outside of it was fabulous, and I'll definitely go back.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.120
Won't stay in Cleveland next time in case I need socks.
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.039
But um that's crazy.
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:46.799
No, it was great, and and this the city itself was beautiful, it was just a shame there was nobody there.
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:48.559
But I've had it before in cities.
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:49.039
I went to St.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:49.759
Louis St.
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:50.960
Louis once, St.
00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:54.399
Louis, where they have the big arch and there was nobody there.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.000
The whole city was empty.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:57.200
Yeah.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.039
Maybe it's just surprisingly.
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:00.879
They hear everyone everyone's gonna be.
00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:13.599
They hear Steve's coming, they're like, Goodbye, but I love uh I love New York, I love uh Raleigh in North Carolina, I love Houston, Texas, which is pretty I love places like that.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:23.920
So uh I've been lots of you know over the uh the years in lots of different um brilliant towns, and uh always the highlight of the trip is not really the towns, it's the people.
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.880
I love I everyone's incredibly welcoming and really nice.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.480
Um even though I've had many disasters on tour.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.279
Um I can tell you quick.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:38.079
Yeah, please tell us, yeah.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:42.480
So I was I was in this place, I got invited to this place.
00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:45.599
It's called Sea Island in Georgia.
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:52.960
Okay, and it's kind of like um a sort of a summer camp resort for millionaires.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:59.839
Okay, so to get and they would put on entertainment for their guests, and it's like an island resort.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:04.319
So there's a hotel and there's all different buildings and lodges, and there's a huge golf course and everything.
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.359
So um, they give you an idea of this place.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:12.000
They once decided, well, well, this show, Downton Abbey, is very popular.
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.319
Is Downton Abbey popular in the US?
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:15.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:20.400
They flew out the whole cast and then said, Can you just put on a show for us?
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.640
And they went, Okay, yeah.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:25.200
Uh so it's that sort of level.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:30.960
Like they so they invited me and a few other writers to have like a uh a crime weekend.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.839
So we had to go and do a talk there, and they let us stay there for like four or five days.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:48.400
So I brought my wife, they paid for us to go first class from Dublin to Georgia, and they gave us the run of the resort for like you know, four or five days, and it was unbelievable.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:49.759
They give you a sense of the place.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.440
Well, we were checking in.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:57.440
Um, the lady said to me, You can go and see that man over there, he'll give you your complimentary BMW.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:00.160
And I said, Sorry, excuse me.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:05.759
So you could go, and this man would give you a BMW just to drive around the island.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:09.599
Oh wow, you go and see everything, and I and so I didn't do that.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:15.200
My wife wouldn't let me do that because she thought I'll wreck I'll wreck the car and then it'll be a disaster.
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:27.359
So um, but like Tracy had cryotherapy, she has had horseback riding and kayaking and everything, and had this amazing time, and it's all you know, three-star Michelin chef food and everything, fantastic.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:37.920
So all I had to do for this was this one talk, and it was a ballroom full of people, and I thought, okay, I'll just I'll go to the bathroom before I do this talk.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:40.079
And it was a summertime, it was very hot.
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:52.640
So I went into the bathroom, into the stall, locked the door, did whatever I had to do, coming out of kid, and I pulled the handle down on the on the door to open it, and the whole locking mechanism just crumbled in my hand.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:53.839
Oh no.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:20:02.160
And it was like floor-to-ceiling door, thick mahogany with just like a little slatted, you know, with little wooden slats in the window.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:03.599
This is actually my nightmare.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:05.759
I've thought about this happening multiple times to me.
00:20:06.079 --> 00:20:09.839
I before I went in, I gave Tracy my gave my wife my phone.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.240
Oh, because I didn't want her on stage.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.039
So I'm looking at my watch, and it's two o'clock now.
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:20.079
I have to do my talk, and I'm locked in the world's hottest toilet.
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:23.119
So I had no way of telling anybody this.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:30.160
So I start shouting for help, and a few minutes later, a man comes in and says, Are you alright?
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.680
I said, I'm stuck in here.
00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:37.839
And he tries the door, and he's he for a few minutes and goes, Yeah, you're you're really stuck in there.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.000
I said, I know, I can't climb out, I can't do anything.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:41.920
It's a totally sealed box I'm in.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:43.119
So wait a minute.
00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:47.519
So he went and got this guy, like an engineer who came in and he couldn't do anything.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.440
So the phone for these other people to come.
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:51.519
But they're on the other side of the island.
00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.400
And uh the event manager came in and said, What are we going to do here?
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.440
I said, Well, you better let them know I'm delayed uh here.
00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:10.240
So she, unbeknownst to me, she went into the ballroom and announced to 200 people the author, Steve Kavanaugh, is delayed because he has locked himself in the bathroom.
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:22.799
Oh now, technically that's correct, but the way she said it, it sounded as if I had thrown a mad hissy fit and had barricaded myself in the toilet and refused to come out.
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:33.359
So I'm in here, I said about 15 minutes now, and the man the guy, the bar manager said to me, It's really warm in here.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.279
I said, I'm melting in here.
00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:43.119
So he said, Hang on a minute, and he came back, and then this big straw came through the slats of the of the window.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:48.400
So I said, That that water tastes really weird.
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.880
He said, That's not water, that's Pinot Grigio.
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:57.920
Just put a big straw and a bottle of Pinot Grigio and well again, it was that kind of place.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:09.440
So um by about Half to I had inhaled a bottle, a whole bottle of Pinot Grigio, and then two men busted this door off and got cut me out.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:15.440
So when I walked into the ballroom, they had obviously thought, well, see if someone's had a negotiation with them.
00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.599
I had a huge round of applause.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.400
Well done.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:22.160
He's finally got the courage to come out of the bathroom to talk to us.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.880
But it was the warmest crowd I'd ever had.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:26.319
Everyone had a great time.
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:31.279
Um, because they all thought, you know, we'll give them we'll give them some encouragement here, obviously.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.319
So yeah, there's all sorts of disasters I have, but that's just one of them.
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:40.079
That was great.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:42.640
If you want to talk about books, there's been two books.
00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:45.519
That was amazing.
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:50.160
Yeah, that sounds like a comedy sketch that you just can't.
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.039
There's all sorts of weird weird and wonderful things happen.
00:22:53.680 --> 00:23:01.680
This is not a question on our list, but since we're kind of like talking about a more funny story, would you ever write outside of the genre you typically write?
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:06.720
Because the way you told that story, I feel like I could read a comedy by you.
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:09.920
Like, is that of any interest to you at all?
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:14.640
Um The weird thing is I don't think comedy books sell very well.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:15.119
Yeah.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:17.440
Um and I'm I don't know.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.079
I I kind of I know what I'm good at, if you know what I mean.
00:23:20.160 --> 00:23:24.400
And I think I'm I I know I'm I'm okay with writing a thriller and I know how to do it.
00:23:24.559 --> 00:23:26.960
I know how to write a twist and characters and stuff.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.720
So I don't know if I ever would.
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.759
Um I used to read a lot of fantasy.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:35.759
Uh so maybe a fantasy book, but I I doubt it.
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:36.640
I doubt it.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:40.000
I I'm quite quite happy plowing my own furrow.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:44.400
I know I could definitely never write romance because that's really hard.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.039
Um, and I take my hat off to romance writers.
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:48.720
I think it's the most difficult game.
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.440
That in children's writing is really tough.
00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:58.640
And there's a few bits in my book in Two Kinds of Strangers, there's a little bit of a sort of a romance scene, and that was really difficult.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:02.319
You know, I'm much happier, you know, cutting someone's hair off.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:02.799
Yeah.
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:08.880
Comes more naturally to me.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:15.920
I think you could actually do a little bit of stand-up comedy, maybe not write it, but I think you're you're a very witty person.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:22.240
And I think you could you could you could uh make a living on stand-up just with your misfortunes.
00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:27.680
You could just go up and talk about that story and everyone will die laughing.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.839
So well, thank you very much.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:36.160
I do when I do when I when I go on tour, sometimes I'm talking to someone, sometimes they just give me a microphone and and I talk.
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:41.920
And I I'll I will tell stories and things and talk a wee bit about books, but mostly I don't want to spoil the book.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:47.279
Yeah, I'll talk a little bit about it and then I'll tell a story, and everyone's had it, everyone's been entertained.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:49.920
Um so I think that's that's good, that's fun.
00:24:50.079 --> 00:24:53.519
Getting me to talk isn't a problem, getting me to shut up is usually the the issue.
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:54.079
Okay.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:55.359
I love it.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.000
Yeah, we're happy to do that.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.480
I really have to talk the entire time, pretty much.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.200
So without spoiling anything, you were talking about twists.
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:04.880
I'm so curious.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.079
How does one write a good twist?
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:09.680
Like, how does that start?
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.079
Like, how how do you put all of the pieces together?
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.880
Um, with great difficulty.
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:18.559
Um really.
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:26.640
Uh so it's only for one of my books that I know one of the twists going in.
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:32.079
Because I don't plan anything out, I don't have an outline, I don't have a plan.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.079
I make it all up as I go along.
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:39.440
So I'll have an idea for the very basic premise of the book, and it will be very basic.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:52.000
So, for example, Two Kinds of Stranger, you know, uh is basically what if you met the perfect, you know, uh what if you met this perfect stranger and you helped them and they turned out to be the perfect killer.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.440
And that's all I had when I started that book.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:01.519
Um, and then as I go along, I'll sort of I'll stop maybe every 20,000 words and look at what I've got.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.119
Because I know I do want to surprise you and I do want twists.
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:11.039
Um, so I it's sitting down and saying, okay, I'm always thinking about the reader when I'm writing.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:16.400
Some writers are always thinking about you know them, what they want from the book and what they want to write.
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:18.319
And I'm always thinking about the reader.
00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:19.759
What are you thinking?
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:25.759
What can I, you know, because Eddie's a con man, um uh, but he's not the only one.
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.519
I'm also conning the reader.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.160
I need a twist that you won't see coming.
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:54.640
Um, uh, but it has to be actually the thing with the twist is it's all in the execution, so it has to be something that makes you go, oh I wow, I didn't see that coming, but it makes total sense and right, and it changes your perspective of the book, and it's it's all it's like having a puzzle that doesn't quite fit in, and then it just suddenly goes click and you have that satisfaction.
00:26:54.799 --> 00:27:09.759
I never want to write a twist which is just oh, I I didn't see that coming, and yeah, wow, it's just a twist for its sake, it's not it has to be satisfying, it has to be in a way that makes you go, wow, yes, great, I didn't see that coming, and it makes total sense.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:15.519
Not you know, oh, it was aliens, or he was, you know, something we weird, you know.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:22.559
Um, it has to, it can't be from left field, it has to all be, you have to build it all up and layer it through.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.720
And so that can be very tricky and just takes a lot of hard work.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:28.720
What you kill it.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.880
Yeah, because I feel like I'm very picky when it comes to the thrillers that I read.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.799
And I read some where the twist is very shocking, but it makes zero sense.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:45.039
And so with yours, I fe I feel like with all three of us, the reason we love your book so much is because your twists are still good, but you're right.
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.839
It as soon as you reveal it to us, it all makes sense.
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:51.920
I'm not thinking this is so unrealistic, it doesn't make sense.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.960
It's just your book, your thriller books are just you know what thrillers should be.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:59.359
Yeah, they're they're action-packed.
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.200
You still have like the wittiness that you show as a person is in your books.
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.000
It's just the perfect recipe for us.
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:07.440
So you do a great job.
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:08.160
Thank you.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:09.119
Thank you very much.
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.559
That's very kind of me to say.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:12.319
I'm I'm very glad.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:13.519 --> 00:28:26.000
The talent, just what how you described it, I just couldn't imagine going into a book and just kind of making it up as I go and having it make as much sense as your books do.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.359
Like, like Kennedy said, it just fits so well.
00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:33.759
I just want to like jump inside of your brain to see how everything's moving.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:40.400
Because every time I'm reading your books, I'm like, how did this how did he figure this out?
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:40.960
I love it.
00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:41.759
It's so fun.
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:49.119
So well, I have help, you know, is I have good editors and my wife Tracy is brilliant at coming up with twists and ideas and surprises as well.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:50.319
So I I do have help.
00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.000
I'm not doing this all on my own.
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:52.640
Oh.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:57.200
And of course you got Google with your how to hide a body and dog videos, you know?
00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:58.079
Exactly.
00:28:58.640 --> 00:28:59.839
Perfect combination.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:01.440
Perfect.
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:04.480
Talking about Eddie Flynn, okay.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:13.119
Is there anything that you've learned from writing about him that's maybe surprised you or writing these books?
00:29:13.599 --> 00:29:15.119
Um, I don't know.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:24.559
I don't I uh I don't normally get surprised by I know some writers, they're you know, they get surprised by what their characters do.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.519
Um and I think that's it's not surprising the way that you think it is.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:35.839
You know, there are some writers that are all the way in and their characters talk to them and tell them things and all of that.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.759
And I'm always like, great.
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:46.559
And then if this writer's telling me this, I'm sort of backing away very slowly, you know, don't make eye contact, no sudden movements, because those people are just crazy.
00:29:46.799 --> 00:30:01.039
Um there are other writers that will, you know, they have a plan for their book, and what they haven't accounted for is what their characters, who the what the characters that they've written, and it may well be that because they haven't written the characters yet.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:08.079
Um there's a to me, there's a huge overlap between plot and character, and character leads the plot for me.
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:20.400
Yeah, um, because in if you think about it in any situation, um, I'm sure there's a parallel here for maybe romantic books, but you would have one character who would maybe so say Jack Reacher.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:27.119
If Jack Reacher finds a bad guy at the end of a book, Jack Reacher shoots a bad guy in the head and then goes and gets a cup of coffee.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:33.839
Uh if it's a police detective like Harry Bosch, he finds a bad guy, he arrests him, and there's a trial.
00:30:34.160 --> 00:30:41.279
But you know, so the characters in some ways to take the dictate the action if you're writing true to what that character will do.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:49.839
You know, so uh sometimes you can be surprised that way if you have a set idea for a plot and you say, Oh, the character won't do what I want them to do.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:52.079
Well, maybe that's not the character you've written.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.920
So uh I'm never really surprised by that.
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.920
But I know exactly what you mean.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:16.640
Yeah, but that's very interesting because um we've interviewed quite a few authors, and so it's just always very interesting to see how what the relationship is like with their characters and like how they write and stuff like that based on yeah, the relationship they have.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:19.200
And yeah, that's that's just very interesting.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:20.000
I love it.
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:24.240
Yeah, though well, I think I know Annie Flint and I have written ten books with him.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:30.000
Yeah, so I know what he'll do in a situation, which kind of makes the writing of the books easier for me in some ways.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:35.839
Because I know what he'll do, I know the mistakes he'll make, um, I know that some of the tactics he'll employ.
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.160
He'll always do the wrong thing for the right reasons to help someone else.
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.799
Um and as long as I stay true to that, then I'm I'm okay.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:46.000
Yeah.
00:31:46.559 --> 00:32:01.359
Um, if you do you think um Eddie Flynn would have to uh change his ways if he were to magically be in your world, like in Ireland.
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:09.039
Um you would be amazed at things that some lawyers get away with.
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:17.920
Um and uh you know people often ask me, you know, have you ever used anything from your real life cases you've done in your books?
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:21.839
And I always say no because no one would believe me.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:22.640
Yeah.
00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:26.640
You would read it and you would go, There's no way that would that would happen.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.880
And you'd throw the book across the room.
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:37.839
So the for example, I once represented a guy who tried to rob a post office with a dead seagull.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.440
What?
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:47.759
So this man had a he walked into your post office and he had a seagull by the legs, right?
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.920
And he started bashing the seagull against the security glass, saying, Give me all your money.
00:32:54.559 --> 00:33:00.720
And then he passed out on the floor, and the police were called and he was arrested.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.680
And went to see him and said, Uh, where did you get the seagull?
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:07.039
Was already dead when he walked in.
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.119
He said, Where did you get the seagull from?
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.200
And he said, I have no idea.
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:15.680
And uh alcohol, a lot of alcohol was involved in this.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:16.880
I was gonna ask you.
00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:26.480
Um so the but the you know the the difficulty, the difficult part of the case was he was charged with armed robbery.
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:37.279
So which created an interesting legal you know point because when you think of being armed, you think of you having someone having a lead pipe or a knife or a gun.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.680
You know, so this was an interesting point of law.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.680
Can you be armed with a large deceased seabird?
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:57.119
So we had a bit of a uh a chat with the judge, and the judge go, he had no idea either, and sort of went, Well, if you get hit around the face with this bird, would it hurt?
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.640
And we went, it probably would.
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:00.559
So you see, God's a big bird.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.359
And he went, well, then he probably was armed.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.279
There's no arguing with that logic, really.
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:12.960
So, but if I put that in a book, you know, you'd be going, What the hell is this?
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.239
This is whatever.
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:18.000
It's just a real load of rubbish, this, and you would throw it away.
00:34:18.239 --> 00:34:22.320
So I don't, and uh there's loads of stuff like that that's happened.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:29.039
And because you know, mostly criminals aren't I write about I like writing about really smart people.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.239
That's the thing.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.920
So Eddie Flynn is smart.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:39.280
A lot of the villains in my books are you know very you know twisted and damaged people, but a lot of them are very smart as well.
00:34:39.519 --> 00:34:41.599
Because I think that's a good foil for Eddie.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.400
You know, I want someone who's as smart as him to make it.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:46.000
Yeah, yeah, to challenge him, yeah.
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:47.280
To challenge him.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.239
So um, but in reality, very few villains are are smart.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:55.840
You know, mostly they're they're really stupid.
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:03.920
Quick example of that we've got a guy who was released to a um it's almost like a halfway house, you would call it.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:06.320
So he's he's been released from GL, he's on license.
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:07.599
Please for watching him.
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:16.480
And there was a a corner shop on the corner of a street, and he would go in every day and buy milk and bread there and chat away to the person behind the till.
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:20.320
Um, it was always a lady behind the till, she was a shop owner.
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:24.880
And then he ran out of money and he thought, I'll I'll rob the shop.
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:28.079
So he put on a balaclava and walked in.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:33.119
He had just been in there that morning to buy milk, but he walked in and said, Okay, give me all your money.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.920
And she said, Is that you, John?
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.639
Uh, because she recognized him instantly.
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:42.000
Uh, because he was still wearing the same clothes that he'd been in that morning.
00:35:42.079 --> 00:35:50.239
He'd just put a hood on and there was audio of it, and his response was, she said, is that you, John?
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.039
And he said, No, it's somebody else.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:00.559
So it's not, he's that's you know there's no mastermind there.
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:02.320
Yeah.
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:03.440
Oh my god.
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:07.360
Do you is it hard sometimes to keep a straight face?
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:10.320
Sometimes.
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:12.400
Sometimes it's very difficult.
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.760
You hear people saying things and it's you're going, oh my god.
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:16.639
Really?
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:18.239
Did you just say that?
00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:20.960
And sometimes it's a lawyer saying it.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.000
Yeah, I that would be.
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:27.840
So we uh very quick, very quick example.
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:36.400
There was a case of this um this family, uh, and they were all quite every member of the family had been arrested multiple times.
00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:44.159
Father and the son, and the brothers and cousins, and everyone was just getting arrested all the time, fighting with each other, and you know, a lot of problems in this family.
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.840
And um, they were arresting the grandson who was about 15.
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:49.920
There's two big policemen arresting him.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:51.599
And his granny went out.
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:56.400
Now she was the only one who wasn't regularly arrested, uh, and had never been arrested, I don't think.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:03.440
She went out to remonstrate with the police officer and was so you know, pulling him and saying, Leave my grandson alone.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:09.920
So he was wrestling with the granny, this woman's in her 80s, and he pulled off her false arm.
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:23.360
Uh, during this tussle, and I had to represent her, and um, I couldn't do it that day.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:39.920
So another guy in my office went down to do it, and I so he was and the the prosecutors reading out the facts of the case, and we were saying, Well, yes, she did technically put her hands on the police officer, but she's a woman of good standing, and you know, leave her alone, you know, give her a bit of a finger wagging and say, Don't do it again, and let her go.
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.320
Nice woman in her 80s.
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:48.639
And um the the solicitor uh who was doing the case said an unfortunate phrase.
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:52.239
Um, he said, You know, this uh this lady is of obvious good standing.
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:56.719
Um, you know, she wouldn't hurt a fly, she's completely uh harmless.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:00.800
Meaning to say harmless.
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:04.079
But the judge, the judge started laughing.
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:07.599
And couldn't stop laughing.
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:09.920
So he couldn't actually sentence her.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:14.000
He just would get her out of here because no one couldn't breathe.
00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.239
So there's things like this, you put them in a book and no one would believe you, you know.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:21.599
Yeah, I bel yeah.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:23.199
So there you go.
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:24.320
But wow.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:31.599
I'm like, I would read a short story, a short storybook of all of your tales like that from your campaign.
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:36.320
You should start a podcast.
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.039
I would listen, I would have a book podcast.
00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:46.079
Oh, me and another brilliant Liverpool writer called Luca Veste, and we're very good friends.
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:54.880
And we started in 2016 before there were any real book podcasts, but we were kind of the worst book podcast ever because we never really talked about books.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:07.440
We most we wanted to we wanted to have um the same conversations with writers, mostly crime writers, that we would have like at a festival at like you know uh midnight after we've had a few beers.
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:11.840
So, you know, for and some writers got it, and they were great episodes and very funny.
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:13.920
And some writers didn't get it at all.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:17.840
They were like wanting to be interviewed, and it was a bit so it was hit and miss.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:20.800
It was called Two Crime Writers and a Microphone.
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:21.920
Oh, lovely.
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:23.280
Can you still find it?
00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:30.239
So for example, we had Linwood Barclay, who's a fantastic thriller writer, one of the best standalone thriller writers ever.
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:48.159
We had Linwood Barclay on, and but not to talk about his new book, he was getting house renovations done, and there were works going on outside, and the the all the building construction crew outside working on the road had put their toilet on his lawn uh right in front of his writing room.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:50.239
So he was taking pictures and putting them online.
00:39:50.639 --> 00:39:57.280
He was just sitting writing and looking up, and it's just a line of men going to have a crap in his front lawn and this little toilet.
00:39:57.440 --> 00:39:59.920
So we got them all to just largely talk about that.
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.320
And well, a lot of them loved that, a lot of writers loved that because you it wasn't it was totally out of the norm, and you got to know them as a real people.
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:06.800
Yeah.
00:40:07.039 --> 00:40:11.440
So um, but we have we we sort of we got both of us got too busy to do that.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:12.239
But read Mr.
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:14.800
Veste's books if you get a chance, he's brilliant.
00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:15.199
Yeah.
00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:15.840
Okay.
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:28.159
I was gonna say, I feel like as a reader, it's nice to know, like when we do these interviews, obviously we ask authors questions about their writing, but I also feel like even our listeners love to hear about who who you guys are as people.
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:34.159
And yeah, I feel like we've learned so much about you just in this interview, and so have our listeners.
00:40:34.239 --> 00:40:38.800
And if I hadn't read your books, listening to you talk and how funny you are, it would make me want to read your books.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.400
So it's like you know kind of you to say.
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:51.039
It's a good, it's a good way to advertise your books outside of just like here's how I write, because people connect with you as a person and then want to read your books.
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:51.280
Yeah.
00:40:51.519 --> 00:40:53.280
So that's really cool.
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:54.800
Can you still find your podcast?
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:56.559
Like, is it still on Apple Podcasts?
00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:58.000
It's still on somewhere, yeah.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.079
I think the main stuff is I would go listen to that.
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:01.440
So you have a listen.
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:01.840
Okay.
00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:03.920
I take no responsibility whatsoever.
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.880
There's some episodes that are good and some are bad.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:13.519
Some of the better episodes were there used to be in a literary award in the UK called the Bad Sex Award.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:14.239
Okay.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:15.280
Oh, okay.
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:22.559
So this was an award for a really badly written sex scene in an otherwise good book.
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:28.079
And we would read out the nominees and sort of try and see where they went wrong.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:35.119
And sometimes it's just two minutes of me laughing and Luca laughing, and we don't know.
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.079
I need to listen to this as soon as possible.
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:52.880
There's because there's various approaches, particularly with English writers, they don't really want to write about sex scenes, or they find it very difficult to do it because you can either do it very descriptively, it becomes quite clinical then, and it's very strange.
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:55.599
I can never write a sex scene.
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.320
Um, and then there are some writers who say, Well, like, I can't do that, I'm gonna go into metaphor.
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:04.719
So your pages about you know, mountains and valleys and all sorts of stuff.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:09.039
Is this a geography book or what what the hell is this?
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.719
You know, because they completely lose themselves.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:17.199
You can see that well, I've got to write this sexy and they went, oh no, write something else.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:18.960
Can't put that down.
00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:20.960
You know, they get embarrassed themselves.
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:26.400
There's other people you think you read this and you think, I, you know, these people have probably never had sex in their lives.
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.079
It's very strange.
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:29.920
But there you go.
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.840
That's a that's a thing, good thing to Google.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:33.599
The bad sex award, you can have a bit of a laugh.
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.960
Oh my gosh, wait, that's really funny.
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:36.639
We are learning so much.
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:48.559
Yeah, we we love to dissect some cringy, we call it cringy dialogue or like cringiest lines, and we have a laugh whenever we do an episode on that.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:52.480
So I can't imagine you guys dissecting.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.039
I would love I'm really gonna try and find that and listen to it because that sounds so entertaining.
00:42:57.840 --> 00:42:59.039
Have a listen again.
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.239
I'd abdicate responsibility for this a long time ago.
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:02.800
Okay.
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:03.280
That's okay.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:04.239
It was fun.
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:05.360
Yeah.
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.639
Why did you guys stop doing it?
00:43:09.039 --> 00:43:10.000
It was largely me.
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.840
I just got I had so much on at the time.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:16.159
I was working and writing, and then it was a whole thing with COVID stuff uh hit.
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.079
So it was largely me.
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:21.119
Um but we used to do like gigs at festivals and stuff.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:26.079
We would do live episodes and we yeah, we we interviewed, we did over a hundred episodes.
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:32.559
We interviewed we kind of talked to everyone we wanted to talk to as well, which is but um no, it was good fun.
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:33.840
Yeah, that's fun.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:38.800
I think I mean you're you're booked and busy, obviously, with your books and stuff.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:46.239
So I think that's awesome that you had a chance to do that, and then now you're just writing away.
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:47.440
Writing away.
00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:48.719
Sharing the words.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:49.679
Yeah.
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.239
Well, and again, I'd leave it to professionals like yourself.
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:53.920
You know, your podcast is is great.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.360
It's brilliant to hear real readers talking about books.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:59.119
That's what I like to listen to.
00:43:59.519 --> 00:43:59.760
Thank you.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:00.719
Thank you.
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:02.320
That's very nice.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.000
We're supposed to be complimenting you, not you complimenting us.
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.679
No back into you too.
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:14.159
So back to the courtroom stuff, because I've got a question for you with this.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:18.880
Do you ever watch like courtroom dramas, TV, anything?
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:23.360
And are you is it hard for you to like not be fact-checking stuff?
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:28.239
Because like you said in your books, you try to keep everything as like correct.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:29.760
Correct as possible, right?
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:31.039
As as possible, yeah.
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:32.079
I mean, I take liberties.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:36.880
So, for example, the cases in Eddie Flynn and a lot of the books, they happen quite quickly.
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:41.920
Because I don't want to leave a two-year gap between a trial a crime and the trial.
00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:45.760
But I'll always invent a very good reason why it happens quickly.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:46.480
You know.
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:52.320
So if I change something, there will be it will be explained and there'll be details to back all that up.
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.039
Sometimes, you know, um, but usually I'm quite forgiving.
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.199
If it's a good drama um and it all makes sense, then that's great.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:07.760
And the reader's intelligence or the what or the listeners' intelligence or or viewers' intelligence isn't insulted, I'll be very happy.
00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:09.440
There have been some brilliant ones.
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:13.039
Um my favorite one's Rumpole of the Bailey.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.400
You probably have not heard of this.
00:45:16.559 --> 00:45:24.800
So there was an English barrister called Sir John Mortimer, who did lots of uh divorce cases and some interesting cases.
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:35.679
He did uh a public decency case because they tried to ban a book, um, Lady Chatterley's Lover, and he was one of the um lawyers who got that book back into print.
00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:45.280
Um so but he wrote a character called Rumpole of the BLE about a barrister who worked in the OPLA and he defended people, and uh that's brilliant.
00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:48.800
And the scenes in that I think you can watch the whole thing on YouTube.
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:57.360
The books are great, they're all little short stories within a volume, but you can watch the whole thing on YouTube, they're very funny and very accurate.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:03.519
Rumpel was a brilliant cross-examiner because they just stuck to what Mortimer did, and he was brilliant doing it.
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:09.280
So a very funny, not dramatic or tense, really, but very funny and humorous.
00:46:09.360 --> 00:46:13.119
But you can see the craft of what those courtroom scenes are like.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:16.960
So probably the best courtroom scenes I've seen, Rumpel of the Bailey.
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:18.000
Okay.
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:21.440
I have to ask, have you ever watched Suits?
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:28.079
I've watched one or two episodes of it, but I've never watched all of it.
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:32.079
Um, and I'd never watched Better Call Saul until recently.
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:37.519
Um uh so I don't get a lot of time to watch, but I hear Suits is great.
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:50.559
I feel like not to compare, but it is uh kind of similar to Eddie Flynn in the fact that he's kind of conning his way into being a lawyer.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.599
Um and I just thought it was really fun.
00:46:53.760 --> 00:47:00.639
I started watching Suits and reading your books at the same time, and I just I thought it was it was kind of fun.
00:47:00.800 --> 00:47:05.199
I have actually stopped watching suits and continued reading your books instead.
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:06.159
Oh, good.
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:11.920
Well you can put the suits, um, but then that's that's as long as you're reading the books, that's fantastic.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:12.639
Yeah.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:18.719
No, I uh I mean there's only so much time, and I think I would rather read books.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:23.599
Yeah, read books, and I I love listening to your audiobooks.
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:30.400
I don't know if you have any say in your narrator at all, but he's incredible, he does a fantastic job.
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:33.440
Like he is Eddie Flynn, yeah.
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:45.039
Yeah, Adam Sims is Eddie Flynn for a lot of people, and I I was lucky I got a an option for the first book, and I had a couple of people, and I went, well, I like this guy.
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:51.519
And um Adam was brilliant and it's continued on, and uh I have no complaints with him.
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:52.320
He's brilliant.
00:47:52.559 --> 00:48:13.760
I can't listen to the books, I listen to a little bit of each of them, but the way he narrates the books is brilliant and dramatic because he's a proper actor, and I've I've you know I've done an interview and stuff with Adam, and he's a lovely man, but his cadence and his rhythm is different from the cadence and rhythm that I have in my head for Eddie.
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:24.159
So I don't I can't I don't want it to Adam's rhythm, which is much better than mine, to get into my head because it might interrupt the way I hear Eddie.
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:25.440
Yeah, that is.
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.400
Because I don't really have a good mental picture of him.
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.880
I was just gonna ask if you had a fan cast for any of your characters, so that answers that.
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:36.559
No, I don't I don't.
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:45.360
Although we are you know we're looking at Eddie Flynn's at the moment, um but uh I I don't I don't have a I don't have a picture of my head.
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:52.639
I and that's the deliberate thing because um I only very barely described in the books.
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:55.360
I only give a very rough description of them in some of the books.
00:48:55.599 --> 00:49:16.800
Some of the books there's no description of them at all, and that's because I kind of want you to create your version of what he is in your mind, and it'll be different from for every every one of you, but that means that you have a personal connection with that character that is totally connected to you, and I haven't interfered with it.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:47.599
Um, I remember I was reading uh again Michael Connolly's Harry Bosch series, and I read them out of order, and I was reading one book, and there's a bit where and it was one of the early books, they might have been The Black Echo, the first one, which is a masterpiece, but it's a bit where Harry uh Harry Bosch is standing in front of the mirror, and you know, he's combing his hair, and he's uh Michael described his aquiline features and you know heroic jaw, and then there's a bit where Harry Bosch combs his mustache, and I nearly dropped the book.
00:49:48.079 --> 00:49:54.000
But in the other books, Harry Bosch doesn't have a mustache, there's no mention of a mustache, yeah.
00:49:54.559 --> 00:50:00.320
Suddenly has a mustache, and it really broke me out of that because in my head he he didn't have a mustache.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:00.639
Yeah.
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:05.199
I almost wanted Harry Bosch doesn't have a mustache, it's no mistake, you know.
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:34.320
So I'm I've been I've learned from from Michael's mustache that uh I I I leave the the the the creation of the character to you, but that also makes a rod from my own back because you know if Ellie does make it under the screen, then it won't suit anyone because each of you will have a very individual unless you so happen to imagine an actor who eventually plays him, then you'll have you know it won't it won't it won't work for you exactly.
00:50:35.440 --> 00:50:54.239
I feel like with book adaptations, readers can be so nitpicky on the physical aspects of the characters, like if the eye color doesn't match or whatever, but I think and I think these two would agree, I think it's more important to have someone who embodies the character really well and where Eddie is such a strong character.
00:50:54.320 --> 00:51:03.360
I think any of your readers would understand to like let go of the physical aspects as long as you know he is Eddie Flynn, yeah, acting-wise.
00:51:03.519 --> 00:51:04.960
So I hope so.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:05.599
I hope so.
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:18.960
I mean that's why I I a lot of people complained when Tom Cruise uh did Jack Reacher, but I thought that first movie they really captured how Jack Reacher thinks, and for me he's a very cerebral character, so they did things well.
00:51:19.199 --> 00:51:26.239
People more some people love the TV show because the actor's much physically more resembles the character, and it's up to the individual.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:34.159
But the thing that Lee will always say is the books are there, the books haven't changed, and they're exactly you know, and they're a different thing.
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:56.159
I think I also, depending on the book, will envision Eddie Flynn differently, not necessarily because of anything you did, but just because it's not very descriptive that I think it kind of changes, and so maybe I have a person that's Eddie Flynn, but there's it's kind of like a blurry face.
00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:57.039
Does that make sense?
00:51:57.119 --> 00:52:06.400
Like, okay, and so like I don't think a lot of people would be upset if you guys picked an Eddie Flynn that you felt embodied Eddie Flynn.
00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:13.039
I think you guys would be surprised with people's reaction and they would be uh thrilled.
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:24.320
I think sometimes people authors do them a disservice when they describe a character too much because if it doesn't then fit, then I think there's an uproar in readers.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:31.199
But because there's not a huge description, I don't think you've done yourself a disservice at all with Eddie.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:33.679
So I'm I'm excited.
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:40.320
I'm um can we uh discuss your little comment about you're looking for Eddie Flynn's?
00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:42.480
Yeah, can you expand at all or no?
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:52.239
I will sort of with the past two years I've been working with some brilliant people to try and bring it to a a TV series, but we'll see.
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:59.360
We have scripts and they're great, and we have you know, we have showrunners and writers and production companies and everything.
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:05.360
People have spent a lot of money um so far in development, and I'm very happy to be working with people I'm working with.
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:06.400
They're the best people for it.
00:53:06.559 --> 00:53:06.960
That's amazing.
00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.320
The only thing we don't have is a a little green light yet.
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:15.360
But we're all very hopeful because we know it'll happen sooner rather than later.
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:25.280
Um so we'll do that, and then one of my which I can't say which one, one of my standalone books we're we're sort of developing into a a movie with a major studio as well.
00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.039
So I've read the script for that, and it's great.
00:53:27.119 --> 00:53:29.599
And looking for a director at the moment.
00:53:30.000 --> 00:53:31.119
Oh well, congrats.
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:33.280
That's amazing, amazing news.
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:39.199
Well, I can't this may be the last you hear of any of it because Hollywood being what it is, but oh yeah, yeah, sure.
00:53:39.519 --> 00:53:41.519
Still even the thought and the hope of it.
00:53:41.679 --> 00:53:42.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:43.199
Wow.
00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.679
I'm we'll we'll start a petition.
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:47.679
It needs to come.
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:57.519
This is um kind of a little bit off topic, but and we should have asked this at the beginning, but do you have a preferred reading order that people read your books?
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:06.719
Would you suggest to start with Eddie Flynn, or is there a different standalone book that you think this is a really great jumping point or starting point with my writing?
00:54:06.880 --> 00:54:08.639
Do you have a preference or do you not care?
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:17.760
Um well, I have I had a plan for this because when I I love uh reading series books, um, and in all different genres.
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:22.400
You know, I love fantasy series, well, I love um crime series, everything.
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:32.719
So um, one of the worst things you know, that are or more challenging things that I've experienced is someone will recommend the series to me and say it's great.
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:34.559
Now you have to read them in order.
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:42.639
First couple of books aren't great, but the fourth one, oh my god, and then you're in like going, well, hang on, do I have to read three sort of okay books?
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:44.719
Power pick of these books.
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:46.719
Um, so I didn't want that.
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:52.800
So they're all every single book is written to be a complete standalone story.
00:54:53.039 --> 00:55:00.239
And it has to work for two readers, has to work for the people who've read all the books, and for the people who have never read any of the books.
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:03.199
And that's something I put a lot of work in.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:07.920
So if you've read them all, uh I'm not telling you anything you don't know already.
00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:10.880
You know, every everything has to be fresh and new for you.
00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:13.199
You're being reintroduced to all the characters.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:19.599
I don't want a new reader to think, hang on, I've missed something out here, or I'm I've come late to the party.
00:55:19.840 --> 00:55:25.039
They're all written to be read in any order you want, and you can pick them up in any order.
00:55:25.199 --> 00:55:27.039
Um, so there is no order for that.
00:55:27.119 --> 00:55:30.239
And I've I've written a couple of standalone books.
00:55:30.400 --> 00:55:33.440
Um, and you and it's different from for every country.
00:55:33.599 --> 00:55:38.159
So, you know, like in Poland, most people know me for a book I wrote called Twisted.
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:48.639
In the US, most people know me for either two books: either Kill for Me, Kill for You, which is a standalone outside the series, or 13 um or 50-50.
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:54.960
So um it's different, and then there are, but you can start in any order you want.
00:55:55.199 --> 00:55:59.599
And the thing is, I think I'm a I'm a better writer now than I was when I started.
00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:02.880
So the first book is not my best book.
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.519
I was still learning and trying to figure out how to be a writer.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:08.480
I think as the books go on, I think they get better.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:09.360
Oh, yeah.
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:14.480
Well, I can attest because I started my the first book I read by you was 5050.
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:15.039
Right.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:21.599
And I had seen someone post like a TikTok that was like, you can read them out of order, like it doesn't matter.
00:56:21.760 --> 00:56:25.119
That one just grabbed my attention and I started with that one.
00:56:25.280 --> 00:56:32.079
But then the second I finished it, I was like, wait, I gotta go start from book like I was ready to start book one and continue on.
00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:38.320
And so, yeah, for anyone listening, you can start anywhere, but you will want to start from the beginning.
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:39.760
I'm pretty certain.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:40.159
Yeah.
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:54.239
So oh yeah, but oh, once you've read one, the the idea is oh think, well, I quite you know, I didn't know this was a because it it doesn't I I'm not I've sort of been writing a series in secret because it does it doesn't say in any of my books an Eddie Flynn novel or something like that.
00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:04.880
Because they didn't want to put off time first-time readers, they're all written to invite first-time readers in sake, and they're all they've all got their individual hooks um on the cover.
00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:07.199
You know, what if it's a serial killer on a jury?
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:12.000
You know, what if two sisters are accused of murder and they they're they're accusing each other?
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:15.840
Um, one of them is the killer of which one, um, stuff like this.
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:21.679
So you've got all the hooks, and people read and think, and I hope they think, I quite like these characters.
00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.199
I I'll read another one.
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:25.440
And yes, hopefully you buy them all.
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:26.320
Yes.
00:57:26.639 --> 00:57:31.199
You have the best hooks, but also what I appreciate is you deliver on those hooks.
00:57:31.360 --> 00:57:38.480
Sometimes there's hooks on thrillers and they don't really meet your expectations, but yours are always so good.
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.599
So good.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:40.480
Thank you.
00:57:40.639 --> 00:57:41.519
Thank you very much.
00:57:41.599 --> 00:57:43.039
I really appreciate that.
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:45.119
That's that's that's lovely to hear.
00:57:45.440 --> 00:57:57.440
I've also grown a really fond attachment to all of your characters, and um you will be paying for my fair therapy bill for a few of your books.
00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:04.960
I won't say which ones, but Okay, I won't be talking about I was wrecked.
00:58:05.199 --> 00:58:17.760
I won't say anything else, but I think after that book, I was like, I would suggest reading them in order if you like a good like attachment to characters.
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:25.840
But you do a very good job of like if anyone were to pick up any of your books, they would know exactly what's going on.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:30.880
And so I think you do both very, very, very well.
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:32.480
Thank you.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.400
That's very kind of you to say.
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:36.639
Again, that particular book.
00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:42.880
Um, yeah, there are some characters I there are some characters who reoccur, and not everybody makes it in my books.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:43.920
We'll say that.
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:53.760
But even if you've read one of the later ones, um, if you go back then to read a book, maybe where something happens to that character.
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:59.360
Uh, and I've had this before from some readers who've done this, you still won't see it coming.
00:58:59.519 --> 00:58:59.920
Yeah.
00:59:00.159 --> 00:59:04.239
When something does happen to that character, again, because it's written that way.
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:06.880
You'll still have the same shock and surprise.
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:07.440
Yeah.
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:09.360
That is such talent, genuinely.
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:10.480
That's crazy.
00:59:10.639 --> 00:59:11.199
That's crazy.
00:59:11.519 --> 00:59:11.920
Yes.
00:59:12.079 --> 00:59:16.159
Ugh You're just talented, and we love we love talking to talented people.
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:16.960
Yes.
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:28.960
Is there a storyline that you have been wanting to write for a while that maybe you haven't, or maybe you have just barely started, like outside of what you already have out?
00:59:29.920 --> 00:59:31.920
Yes, I'm writing a book at the moment.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:34.400
Um which is a standalone.
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:37.920
So the book currently out in the US is two kinds of strangers.
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:42.159
Um, the book that's coming out in March is called One of Us Is Guilty.
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:42.639
Oh.
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:48.719
Um, and that is I'd written a book before called 5050 about those two sisters.
00:59:48.960 --> 00:59:55.920
And the reason I wrote that is a lot of crime novels, you know, there'll be a murderer and there'll be five or six suspects.
00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:57.920
And which one is the killer?
00:59:58.079 --> 00:59:59.440
That mystery element.
00:59:59.840 --> 01:00:03.280
But I wanted to see if I could do it with just two suspects.
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:10.719
And for each chap, you've read two sisters, and you're reading the book going, Oh, it's definitely it's Alexandra, she's the killer, she's the killer.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:13.599
You turn the page, oh, I got it totally wrong, it's Sophia.
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:16.719
And for as much as I can, the whole book to go like that.
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:24.960
Yeah, but because of the nature of my writing of that book, you couldn't really get inside both sisters' heads.
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:32.400
There is, you do see it from a good part of the book from one of their points of view, which is simply known as she.
01:00:32.800 --> 01:00:39.920
It's one of the sisters, and you see exactly how she's done it and what she's up to, but you don't know which sister it is.
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.920
But then uh you can't be in the other sister's head.
01:00:44.320 --> 01:00:49.760
So one of us is guilty, is um my attempt to kind of rectify that.
01:00:50.079 --> 01:00:54.239
So this book is about a toxic power couple.
01:00:54.559 --> 01:01:04.400
So Gone Girl was recently voted um like the number one thriller um in the New York Times of the last 25 years or something, and so it is, it's a great book.
01:01:04.559 --> 01:01:05.440
I love that book.
01:01:05.599 --> 01:01:06.800
I love that toxic couple.
01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.719
You don't know what's going on with them, they're both kind of weird and creepy.
01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:14.559
Yeah, and I wanted to do my I wanted to do my own creepy weird couple book.
01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:15.360
Yeah.
01:01:16.159 --> 01:01:29.440
So one of us is guilty is um uh is uh Patrick and Vanessa, and Patrick is the son of this media mogul, and he's running for governor of New York City, but he's having an affair.
01:01:30.159 --> 01:01:43.119
And uh the book opens on the events of one night when he realizes his mistress, he's in his mistress's apartment, and he realizes and she's his assistant, he realizes she's been lying to him from the day he met her.
01:01:43.920 --> 01:01:46.639
And she has information which could be really damning to him.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:02:02.480
That same night, his wife Vanessa figures out and realizes for sure he's having an affair with this woman, and she goes to the apartment, and we know both have been in the apartment that night, and we know the next morning the mistress is found dead.
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:07.519
Oh and both Patrick and Vanessa are lying to the police and lying to each other.
01:02:08.639 --> 01:02:10.719
But you again, you don't really know why.
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:16.880
So I that's that's the book for next year, and Eddie Flynn comes in to represent um Vanessa.
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:27.679
Uh and he is who'll only and Ellie's the other thing is for a con man who tricks and cons people all the time, he's a very moral character, he'll only represent someone he believes is innocent.
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:35.199
This one, this time, he knows she's not telling him the truth, but he also kind of can't he can't let her go.
01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:40.000
He thinks Vanessa is really a victim and he's gonna help her in any way he can.
01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:43.840
So, um but he wonders all the time through the book, have I got this wrong?
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:46.320
So that's a fun one for next year.
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:51.840
But the book I'm writing at the minute is a story, it's an idea I had a couple of years ago for a standalone.
01:02:52.079 --> 01:03:02.800
And um it's like a serial killer chase across uh America with uh a hostage into it.
01:03:03.119 --> 01:03:11.519
So um uh and it's that interplay between this the person who's been taken hostage and the serial killer and what happens to them.
01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:17.199
Um and what if you know you're kicked up by a serial killer, they know where you live.
01:03:17.679 --> 01:03:28.719
The police have put in it put out an APV and there's a description of this killer, and the killer sits down a train and says, The police are looking for me, they're not looking for two people.
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:31.039
You're coming with me, we're going to New York.
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:37.519
He takes the person's wallet and says, I know where you live, I know where your what your your address is, I know what your wife looks like.
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:42.000
If you try and do anything or alert anyone, I'm gonna get away.
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:44.159
The first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna kill your wife.
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:45.920
So you're stuck with me.
01:03:46.480 --> 01:04:02.960
And as they go across America, they're pursued by this female FBI agent, and she sort of gets the there are some clues pointing to the identity of this killer, but it's sort of leading her to believe that it's not the killer, it's leading them to believe that the hostage is the murderer.
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:09.679
So you're taking hostage, and then the police think you're the killer, and the whole thing takes place over three days.
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:11.519
So that's what I'm mining at the moment.
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:13.280
That's so cool.
01:04:13.599 --> 01:04:15.519
Oh, and there's a twister six along the way.
01:04:16.639 --> 01:04:16.880
Okay.
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:17.920
Or six.
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:18.960
Twister six.
01:04:19.119 --> 01:04:21.599
I don't know what's wrong with me, but I love a good book about a serial killer.
01:04:21.840 --> 01:04:22.000
Yeah.
01:04:22.159 --> 01:04:24.559
So I think Yeah, fascinating.
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:25.199
Yeah.
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:25.599
Yeah.
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:30.159
The one with um is that 50-50 on the where he's on the jury?
01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:31.039
Thirteen.
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:33.119
Yeah.
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:34.239
Crazy.
01:04:35.039 --> 01:04:35.679
Oh my gosh.
01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:54.559
They kind of all blend together in my brain, like just like titles, but like there's there's very distinctly different cases for and they're just the way you write your villains are unlike anything I have read, and I love it.
01:04:55.039 --> 01:04:55.599
I love it.
01:04:56.000 --> 01:04:56.320
Thank you.
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:58.480
It's like twisted, entertaining times.
01:04:58.719 --> 01:04:59.119
Yes.
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:04.559
Yeah, they have to be all, you know, very scary, um, but real as well.
01:05:04.639 --> 01:05:10.880
So I do like you to see them as real people, which maybe even makes them slightly more scary.
01:05:12.400 --> 01:05:12.719
Oh.
01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:15.519
Well, so tell us.
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:17.599
What are you currently reading right now?
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:18.880
Anything good?
01:05:19.519 --> 01:05:21.599
Uh, what am I reading at the moment?
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:25.440
Um I have a few books on the go at the moment.
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:32.880
So um I uh have been catching up on the Slow Horses books by my friend Mick Herron.
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:38.639
I don't know if you've watched the Apple TV series, but the books are brilliant uh and really funny and entertaining.
01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:44.800
It's about a anyone who hasn't read them, it's about a group of spies uh in London.
01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:47.280
Uh have you read any of the Slow Horses books?
01:05:47.679 --> 01:05:49.280
No, how have I not heard about this?
01:05:50.079 --> 01:06:14.559
So it's about um a group of so you have MI5 who you're in Regents Park in London, and if you do something wrong as a spy, say you make a major mess up of something, uh they they don't fire you, they send you to this place called Slough House, which is this decrepit building uh in London where all the bad spies you know go.
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:32.800
And that building is run by this character called Jackson Lamb, who's played by Gary Oldman in the series, and he is um a really disgusting man, but he's also like he was a spy during the Cold War, he's also the smartest person in the whole Secret Service, okay.
01:06:32.960 --> 01:06:36.159
Um, and they get up to lots of chips and make lots of mistakes.
01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:39.679
Um, but they're very, very funny and very well written.
01:06:39.760 --> 01:06:42.639
Um, and London's a great character in those books.
01:06:42.800 --> 01:06:47.519
So they're the first one's called Slow Horses uh by Mick Heron.
01:06:47.679 --> 01:06:49.440
So uh I would recommend those.
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:50.880
What else would I recommend?
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.199
Um quite a very quick recommendation for fantasy stuff because I know you read a lot of fantasy.
01:06:55.440 --> 01:06:58.800
Um uh Joe Abercrombie's The Devils.
01:06:59.280 --> 01:07:00.880
Yes, I started that.
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:02.079
I really enjoyed that.
01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:03.360
That's really good fun.
01:07:03.440 --> 01:07:06.480
It's kind of like the dirty dozen, but like a fantasy version of that.
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:18.559
Yeah, where you have, you know, um a werewolf and a laconic vampire, and you know, a terrible magician and an elf and somebody else and a cursed knight all have to go on this mission.
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:20.559
So I I thought that was a fun read.
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.519
Yeah, that's fun.
01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.599
He does a good job at like intertwining humor with his fantasy books.
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:27.599
He does, they're all very funny.
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:29.440
I love a band of misfits.
01:07:29.519 --> 01:07:36.480
I read the devils, and it was just like the perfect band of misfits together trying to accomplish one goal and they're fighting and they're they don't get along.
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:37.199
I just love it.
01:07:37.280 --> 01:07:38.159
It's so good.
01:07:38.480 --> 01:07:40.480
It's really good, really good.
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:42.239
I'm excited to finish it.
01:07:42.320 --> 01:07:47.920
I'm uh me and my husband are listening to it together, and uh we're enjoying it so far.
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:50.480
So it's good as fun.
01:07:51.119 --> 01:07:51.760
Awesome.
01:07:51.920 --> 01:07:55.519
Well, we just had the greatest time chatting with you.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.440
Yeah, we could listen to your stories all day.
01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:08.960
So thank you so much for taking the time to chat with us, and we will leave all of your info where to find you in our show notes.
01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:17.920
Um, it sounds like for anyone who hasn't yet read your books, hopefully this was a good introduction to start them.
01:08:18.079 --> 01:08:20.880
And people who are familiar with you have a lot to look forward to.
01:08:21.039 --> 01:08:26.560
So I know I am very excited for what's coming next.
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:29.439
But we just wanted to say thank you so much for your time.
01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:32.479
And yeah, we just really appreciate it.
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:33.439
Yeah, thank you.
01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:34.960
No, no, it's been really fun.
01:08:35.119 --> 01:08:36.319
Thank you so much for having me here.
01:08:36.560 --> 01:08:39.199
Really appreciate it, and thank you for all of you recommending books.
01:08:39.359 --> 01:08:46.079
It's fantastic to see you know how well you're you've you've done and um more power to you and and keep going.
01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:47.199
It's great to see.
01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:48.960
Thank you so much.
