Hi, everybody, and welcome back to I will Go down with this Ship. My name is Heather and I'm Chelsea. So we're gonna do something weird because Heather fucked up. Everything was great. We were having basically a two hour episode for a 45 minute episode, and it cut off because my computer had too much storage or whatever and it couldn't save.
So what we're going to do with this episode five is we're going to finish all of our thoughts for episode four, and then we're going to jump into episode five because we both watched episode five. There's so much to say here and we just want to dive in right now. So what I think I was saying, and hopefully will be at least me will be a lot more to the point since we've recorded this. Like, we've already recorded it. Okay, so Lucy's on the ground at one point and Cooper, like, I wish it would flash over to Cooper because I want to see his reaction to see if he's actually concerned for Lucy in that moment.
But Lucy just basically kicks ass. And I'm referring to the Kings when she's going out on her whole thing with the Kings, but she basically kicks ass. Cooper falls harder because we all know he's already fallen for her even more. And then she like shoots all the Kings and basically says. I think even it says in the script, the ghoul says, huh.
Almost like he is surprised but intrigued but odd by her. And Lucy's like, got any cigarettes? I'd like to try one. And he's like, one. One addiction at a time.
And Walton apparently loved this line. He thought it was very sexy. I think we can all agree with that. Yes, absolutely. Yes.
And then. Okay, so we're gonna try to power through. This would flashes back to Thaddeus and he's sitting in the lunch table talking to himself, not realizing everyone else can hear him talk. And Elder McRae, the woman from Yosemite, comes and sits with him and they basically are discussing, like, she's. She's basically stabbing this brotherhood in the back and being like, hey, I can help you.
Right? Am I understanding that correctly? I think so, yeah. Like, it's. It's very much the different factions trying to curry favor with the Commonwealth.
At the same time, Max is talking to Quintus, and Quintus has a very. It's very verbatim, like, dane, what did you do? And Max tells him, like, I killed the emissary from the comet Commonwealth. And Quintus is like, and now do you intend to kill Me. And so I love.
I love just seeing Thaddeus, like, break a sweat here because he. I feel like he reminds me of Lucy and the fact that he can't lie for. And like, he's trying so hard. My boy is trying so hard, and he's just not. He's not doing it.
So she's trying to cover her ass. The girl from Yosemite is like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't have gone with this insurrection. Like, you know, even if you weren't here, I wouldn't have gone with it. So she's trying to cover her ass.
And then we have the Coronado elder seeing this and is like, what are you doing? Is she making deals? You know, we can do the same thing. And Thaddeus is like, again, in the middle. And Coronado is like, hey, we'll give you Quintus his head on a spike right now if you give us 300 fusion cores.
And then, you know, somebody's like, well, we're going to do it for nothing. And then the Coronado guy is like, this is what happens when you negotiate with women. Like, all of that. And then, you know, it goes back to Quintus, and I found you in the ruins of Shady Sands. Kill me, and the world will continue just as you see it.
Okay? A world of anarchy, of horror. A world I would bring order to. Order cruel and necessary to rebuild civilization, to change this world. Kill me.
That change will never come. Now, Chelsea, do you agree that order has to be cruel and necessary to rebuild civilization? What do you think? No. No.
Because things were going really well in Shady Sands, and there was no tightly imposed order there, and there was no cruelty there that I could see. Yeah. Decided to blow it off the map. Right. So then it goes back over to.
I think it's also Quintus justifying why he makes the decisions that he makes. And I think that he. He knows Max's pain points, like, he knows what Max wants. He wants a world that he can find a home in, essentially. And, you know, he sees, or he saw at the time, Quintus as the person who can bring order to the wasteland.
And I think that that has completely gone out the window. I think Max is starting almost like Lucy's kind of rubbing off on him to, like, kind of come up with his own morals. Like, you know what? I agree with the Brotherhood, but, you know, killing ghouls or killing children, you know, and maybe Max had to go through the hard way because Thaddeus was his. Well, I don't Even know friend is the right word.
But they. They had, like, some kind of understanding. And it's like, I know him personally, so that affects me directly. So I cannot let you kill, you know, a ghoul. But the kids.
I mean, that's a line for him. And he was willing. Yeah, thank. Yeah, exactly. So then Thaddeus talks about his panic attack, and I love his line of, you know, like.
Because the Coronado elders like, what the fuck's a panic attack? And Thaddeus is like, you know, when you just. When you. When you can't breathe, but also you can't stop breathing. And I thought that was a perfect description of it.
And the Coronado guys, like, just walk it off. And I love that because that's so, like, masculine. Like, alpha masculine, toxic. Like, just shirk it off, whatever. I don't know.
Toxic is the right word, but, like, very out. Like, yeah, you get what. It's toxic masculinity. Let's just call it what it is. And then Elder McRae is like, Let me get your visor up.
She thinks she's helping Thaddeus, and Thaddeus constantly rejects her, which is immediately suspicious. Goes back to Quintus and Max. And Quintus is like, well, what world will you build, Max, when you lead? Tell me, what will you do when your people are starving? And Max says, I don't want that.
What do you think he's saying here, Chelsea? I don't want that the people are starving. I don't want to lead. I don't want to build a world like. Or I don't want the world you want to build like that cruel, like, what do you think Max is responding to specifically?
I think he doesn't want to be in a leadership role, but he's going to absolutely find himself in a leadership role. The more he grows into who he is and the character arc that we've seen so far this season, he's definitely going to end up in some kind of leadership role. And right now, he's still the reluctant hero and the very much like, I don't want that situation. And I agree specifically about, like, not wanting to step into that place of leadership. Yes, I. I agree with that.
This episode is one of these. It is a tower moment. Yes, Yes, I. I completely agree. And it's. It's the perfect midpoint reversal.
Right. Episode four. And then Quintus pushes him. Well, then what is your great plan? And he admits it.
Max is just, like, there was no plan. I mean, it seems like in this entire Season so far, the only actual plan that Max seems to have is to kill. Kill Quintus. But then that kind of goes out, like, he can't seem to do it right. Sweet baby Max.
Yeah. Are very different people. Because I would have had zero issues the second he started calling those children abominations. Yeah. And he's like, you have plans, but out there, you can't.
I don't choose to do the things I have to do. They just keep happening. And I completely agree. Season one, like, I remember even the fight that Max got into in Philly, like, he's trying to do the right thing, and it just does not work out for him. And this is why Chelsea and I thought he was gonna have a really cool villain arc, because, you know, it would.
It would have been. It's almost like, in a way, Loki from the Marvel Universe, where he. He does all of the right things or all the things that he's supposed to, and it's just never good enough, or it never works out for him the way it works out for Thor or for other people. And it would have been really cool. But.
But I'm also really, like. I'm also very intrigued about where they decide to take Max, because I think it's clear now he's not going to be a villain. And it's like you said, he's going to have. He's going to be forced to step into a leadership role, whether he wants to or not. Maybe even reminiscent of his own father, because it felt like his father had some kind of leadership position, or at least a lot of shady, sans respect, whatever his role was in.
In that town. So. So yeah, so I think that that's really interesting. And then Quintus, the little manipulative bastard that he is, says, my son. My son, tell me what happened.
And Max explains, look, I killed Xander because he was going to kill some kids. They were ghouls. And that was the line for Quintus. He's like, I'm done. I can't even entertain this.
And he goes, and he gets his gun. They do, like, this kind of shootout. Max tries to explain. Explain. Like, look, they're ghouls.
I mean, they were kids. He was gonna kill them, and I couldn't let him do it. And Quintus kept saying, abomination. Abomination. And Max is like, children.
And he's like, first rule of our order. Like, this is the. And it's funny because, again, Quintus is. Everyone does this. And it's.
It's. To me, like, it's very. I feel like I'm not gonna get all religious. But it's very interesting to see, like, a lot of religious connotations. But it's like, you can't pick and choose what seems to work for you, like, work for you, and what seems to not in your codex, in your holy book, in your black and white rules, because you have no problem going against the codex when you want to basically, you know, cause an insurrection against the Commonwealth.
But now you're going to quote it to Max, like, this is the line, you know, I never should have had mercy on you because you couldn't kill abominations. Like, I. It's so fascinating to me, you know, that they fall into this and, you know, then the Grand Canyon elder comes over. They figure out the relic was stolen, happens, and the Coronado elder gets basically stabbed in the throat. We see some infighting, which, again, we have a civil war.
Thad, wasn't that Yosemite that did that to him? Yes, Yosemite did that to him, just like she said she was going to. And thus is like, what. What the fuck do I do at this point? Like.
And then Quintus is shouting, heretic. Max locks him in the door. And Dane comes rushing over to him and says, max, did you do it? And Max is like, I couldn't do it. I'm sorry.
I'm so sorry. And I just broke me. Like, the way that Aaron delivers that line. Like, I felt that, you know. And then Dane says, hey, you do not have to apologize for not killing someone here.
Get that as far away from here as you can. And Dane's a really interesting character because they seem to have no problem with Max saying, I'm basically going to kill Quintus. They didn't try to stop him. They didn't say one way or the other. But when Max can't do something, they also don't reprimand him or they don't tell him why he should have or try to logic him out of the situation.
They say, hey, He. It's okay. And I just found that, really. It almost makes me wonder what their moral compass is. You know what I mean?
Like. Yeah. And so Dane gives Max the cold fu. The fusion core. And Max is basically like, you know why me?
And Dane says, you're the only person here who's not a total asshole. And Max, of course, says, what about you and Dane? We're survivors. Max will survive. And Thaddeus is like, hey, can we go now?
Which was hilarious, but it's just. It was really interesting to me because I trust Dane. I think Dane is going to survive. But I also think Dane has stuff up their sleeve too. Like what?
Once Max is. It's so, like, the relationship is. Is actually, I don't want to say it's more intriguing than Lucy and the Ghoul, but it's much. I feel like it's a little bit more complex, but. Because it's sort of like Dane is the moral compass.
But I feel like Dana's also the person who will do the stuff that Max can't do. Does that make sense? Right. Like, they will absolutely step up and do the things that Max can't do. And I like, they almost feel like a sin Eater to me in that way.
Yeah. I like that idea. I honest to God hope that Dane burns that building to the ground with Quintus locked in it and Quintus dies. Like, I need that man dead. Yeah.
So. So then after that, they kind of rush out of the building, and we see the.
We see kind of like one of the ships kind of goes down. And so my dad. My dad was like, oh, I wonder what ship that was. And I was like, oh, I didn't even think that I should care about that. But that is a good point.
So then we go back to Woody, and I'm kind of glad we're rerecording, because I think we need to. We need to go into this a little more. Yes. So Woody. My baby Woody.
Woody is in Steph's room, basically reporting Steph to herself. So he. He talks about the Vault TEC Handbook. And it mandates that any violations, particularly those that pull, put inner Vault security at risk, be immediately reported to the Overseer. And I feel like this is a great contrast to the Codex and the Brotherhood.
Like, you have people like Woody, who is following the book exactly the way that it is written, exactly like how you're supposed to be to follow, because he's essential. Steph, basically, by meeting with Betty in secret, is committed the violation. And he has to go to the person who committed the violation to report the violation in the first place. It's so funny. Like, seeing somebody be that much of a literalist.
Yes. About the Guide or the handbook or whatever, like, not having any kind of intellectual flexibility about it. And that's. It's interesting because when we have these. And I think it's a good moral question.
We have the Vault has the Guidebook. The Brotherhood has the Codex. They have these things because it would reason with every civilization needs some kind of laws. But the question that it feels like the show is really asking is, is it ever okay to break these laws? And if so, when or how or what does that say?
Or what are the consequences? It's like doing the right thing but for the wrong reasons, which is possibly what we're going to be talking about in episode five. Or doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Exactly. And it feels like Woody is absolutely doing the right thing.
But should he have played all of his cards is the real question. And it was stuff, let me tell you. No, like that. That was a bad move home, dog. Yeah, but it.
But it's. It's. He's a fascinating character because at least I can respect the fact that you know what he's doing, what the handbook tells him, and if he believes. If he believes in the vault, and if he believes what they represent and all of that, then you know, what he did. Exactly what he's supposed to do.
Unlike Quintus, who's like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go against chain of command or whatever it is. And it's just. It's.
Are the. Is there ever any moments of, like, when is it okay? And I just. I find it so fascinating. So, anyway, so we go on.
We see Chet with the baby in the background. Chat's folding up some laundry, and basically, Woody is basically saying, like, I noticed you were in the interval space. Space, which the handbook stipulates we are only to enter for triennial trades. And Steph, you know, she's completely playing this, you know, thank you for reporting this, Woody. You followed protocol to the letter.
And so he's like, look, I've never had to do this before. I don't know what happens next. And Steph says, well, I'll be sure to escalate it. And Woody's, like, escalated to whom? And Steph's like, the overseer.
And Woody's like, but that's you. And Steph's like, well, that makes it easy, doesn't it? And that was really fun, funny. But then Woody gruesome balls and said, well, why were you in the inner vault chamber, Steph? And Steph shut that down right there.
And she's like, look, I know we're all pals here, but I do think it would be best if you referred to me as oversea Harper from now on, just for optics. And Woody's like, yeah. And she says, I'll be sure to let you know what my report finds. Thank you for stopping by during this Time, Chad, is look, basically find Steph's wallet, and we find out that, number one, she's not from the vaults because she has a license, and number two, she's not even from America. She's from Canada.
What do you think she's going to do with this? Chelsea? Do you think he's going to do anything or. Or. What do you think is going to happen here?
I don't know. I hope he sacks up like Norm did and, like, goes and finds, like, some kind of way out of the vault and the hell away from Steph. I don't necessarily trust him to do so. Yeah. Because he's been really low key with the way he's.
Are you there? You totally froze on me.
Okay, I'm. I see you again. That, like, everything locked up. Yeah. Apparently my Internet switched from the Internet that's in my house like seven feet away from me to the Internet at my mother in law's house all the way across the yard, and things froze up and I had to switch it back to my network.
I don't know why it. Thank you. A. T. Yeah, no, we're good. We're good. Okay.
So you were saying, like, you want Shet to sack up like Norm did, and that's when you kind of cut off. So do you want to really quick do a recap? Yeah. Yeah. So a recap of what I said was like, I want him to really, like, find his line in the sand.
Was Steph here at this point and be like, you know, like, you're lying. You're not who you say you are. Like, I want him to find a way out and away the hell away from her before she kills him. Yeah. And also I. I'm hoping that he realizes, you know what?
Maybe I should have listened to Norm instead of keeping my head in the sand. Like, maybe. Right. I'm hating the. Like, the go along to get along.
Right. Like, that has to end at some point. And I'm hoping that this is the point. And I'm thinking it's almost like a flash to that line where Max said, sometimes it's okay to run away, and sometimes it's not. And I feel like she has had more than enough time to, like, not run away.
And he keeps doing it. And then. So then Woody kind of goes over to, like, shat. Like, hey, I hope you're adjusting with all these changes and shots. Like, you know what they say, Wherever you end up, it's where you belong.
And Woody turns to stuff and says, you know, Overseer Harper, when When you said experience experiment to Betty, what were you talking about? And Steph brushes this off. Oh, just overseer stuff. And Woody kind of has to take it. Woody at this point, has more balls than shit.
Let's be honest. Even Reg and the way he's kind of standing up to Betty. And what's interesting is these are the two people that were running, Were in the running to replace Hank against Betty. And these are the two that seem to be questioning what's going on with their own respective overseers, and. Which I kind of love.
So then we go and we flash to Lucy and the ghoul, and Lucy says, well, aren't there supposed to be people, people here? And ghoul says, huh, we should go to Freeside. Somebody will be able to tell us what's going on. And then Lucy's just like, dad, hello. Like, she's just calling out for her dad.
The ghoul recognizes the radiation. Lucy grabs a chicken egg and she's bing. It's the cutest thing. And the ghoul is not amused. I think otherwise he would be, but he's like, those aren't chickens.
And then Lucy's like, very buddy here. Like, very much like. I think after Cooper came to save her, she. A whole wave of. I'm going to let my guard down with this person.
He came to save me. Not only that, but I. I'm starting to realize that some of the things that he might have said. While I don't agree with either how he said them or what specifically was being said, I do agree that maybe he's right and she is going out of her way to be. Not that she was ever abrasive or combative, but I think that she's more open to hearing what he has to say. And we'll see this a lot in episode five.
But she basically says, you know, whatever it is, I think we can take it. Oh, yeah, we got this. In fact, it'll be easy. Like, it's very much like she looks at him as someone her partner, like, that she trusts. And then we see, you know, the deathclaw itself.
And then we see. Then we hear the song, He's a demon, He's a devil, He's a doll. And I know that that could potentially refer to the deathclaw, because, you know, a demon in the snow, which is referring to Cooper in. Or not Cooper, but the demon that Cooper sees when he's in Alaska. But I think that there's a layered meaning here of it's also referring to Cooper himself.
Is saying, especially when we get to episode five, only because of the lyrics, like, you know, the man can look me in the eye and tell the biggest, sweetest lie and I forget that lipstick on his tie. He's a demon, he's a devil, he's a doll. Like, you know, like, there's a betrayal that's potentially going to happen. What. What do you think, Chelsea?
You think that was sort of like a double. A double entendre with the title? I think it's absolutely a double entendre with the title. And I think that the song is very ship affirming. Yes, absolutely.
I think a lot of the songs so far have been shipped. Like when we get the Working for the man with Hank, it literally talks about the boss's daughter bringing him water. You know, like, oh, that she's going to kind of help him with whatever. So that is basically episode four. We're going to just jump into episode five because there's a lot to unpack here.
Hopefully we have no more technical issues.
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so let's see. So much shit happens. Okay. Did you think that the death clause was a little anticlimactic?
Like, a little bit. A little bit. I was expecting a fight. And granted, I think that, you know, this is a very smart decision in terms of just, let's not even go. Like, let's not even try to fight these things.
Let's run. Let's just evade them and get the hell away from them. It's right. It's a smart survivalist choice. But it was kind of anticlimactic from what I was expecting.
I did love the moment when they're sliding under the gate and he grabs her by the ankle and drags her. Oh, my gosh. My husband looked at me. My husband looked at me, like, during that scene. He's like, did you like that?
I was like, heck, yeah, I liked it. I loved that Lucy says, you know, I'm gonna defer to you about what to do in this situation. And the second he says run, she listens. Like, there's no hesitant. Part of it is obviously her life is on the line, sure.
But those drugs that were kicking her into gear, like, you know, she listened to Cooper and I think that it was the fear on his face. And Goggins plays that so well because I could feel it of like, oh, he's scared. Like, we never see the ghoul scared, and he is scared. And I think part of that was Lucy's realization too. Like, it's almost kind of like, you know when they tell you on the airplane, look at the stewardesses to see if you're in turbulence, like, how they're reacting to it.
And I feel like that's Cooper for her. Like, she's gonna base her emotions on how he's reacting to a certain situation. And see, seeing that fear on his face made her scared, because she's never seen that. So, yeah, excellent barometer. Yeah, I think that's a great idea.
So anyway, so like Chelsea said, they kind of slide under Cooper pick, like, drags her, and then helps her up. He helps her up. And then. Oh, my gosh, Lucy's so funny. She's like, do you have any more drugs?
I really think I need some more drugs. You have any more? And the goal's like, what drugs now? No, I ain't got any more drugs. Like, he's like, really?
At a time like this? And Lucy's just like, okay, then, which weapon would you recommend for this? And he. He's like, you got a rocket launcher in that bag? And Lucy says, no.
And again, she's going to Cooper. She's asking, what. What are we doing in this situation? What. What should I pull out?
How can I help? And it's. It's such a turnaround from where she was at the beginning of the season, you know? Absolutely. So the death claws roaring Lucy, like, stuff's happening, but then it's clear that they kind of make their way to.
Away from. They're not even going to try. They're not going to fight against these death claws. So. So they go.
And it's like. Lucy's like, so this is Vegas. So they're in. It's free. What is it free?
Free side Seaside. And this was such an interesting scene. So. So Lucy's like, this is Vegas? The ghoul says, yep.
And she's like, and those surprisingly smelly lizard monster bull things, have they always been here? And the ghoul says, no. And she's like, okay. I'd ask why my dad ran into a den of giant monsters, but you'd probably just tell me to shut the fudge up. And Cooper actually talks to her.
Like, he talks to her. And he says, before the war, there was a plan for a special vault, a vault for management. That's where my wife is, where my daughter is, too. And Lucy's like, well, you never found it. And he's like, oh, no.
I found one in California. It was empty. I found another one in Oregon, and it was empty, too. Turns out there's more than a few special vaults for management sprinkled across the wasteland, all of them empty. But I never found one in Vegas.
And Lucy says, so you think if my dad's in there, maybe your wife and daughter are too? And he says, uh huh. And now they're surrounded by these fucking things. And it's just, to me, it. That means a little bit, like, the physical is also really important, especially for Cooper, who doesn't normally touch people.
But the fact that he's opening up here was such a significant moment, right? It was a vulnerable moment. And he never makes himself vulnerable around her. And regardless of, you know, shipper glasses or not, he doesn't need to tell her this. She, at this point, is already on his side.
She is already locked in. She does not need to go on any more sidetracks. She's like, he does not need to, like, tell her this information, especially in relation to his family. Right. It's.
It's a gift to her. And it's also a perfect setup for what comes later in the episode. And so Lucy is very much like, I think we should just go in there and get them. Because she. I think that this is more for Cooper than for herself, because.
Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, he genuinely wants to help him get his family back. Yeah. And the ghoul says, you can't just waltz past a pack of death claws.
And she's like, they're called death claws. And she starts laughing. And I thought that was funny. And then so, like, she bumps into people. Like, the guy has a sign that says, like, I think it says beat me up.
Beat me up for caps. Yeah. And she's like, look, I know it's not an ideal situation. He's like, oh, I'm okay. Thank you so much.
Like, she's just sweet, cute, perfect Lucy. But she's like, but nothing is up here right now. I'll admit I'm in an altered mental state, but I think we should just shoot these monsters in the face. Like, it's just so easy, Lucy. And frankly, whatever we do, we need to do it quickly because I'm very much out of drugs.
I just love her. I love all of it. So the ghoul gives her caps, which, again, I think that that's a big deal because caps are money. And he's just giving her this money and saying, look, go to the store called Sunnies. Ask for something called a dictal.
It'll get out the shit that's running through your veins. I, um. So let me ask you a question. Why do you. Okay, so obviously they have to medicate her, so she has to be on the drugs.
Why do you think the ghoul gives her more drugs? Is it just to kind of get her to Vegas so he can then get him out of her? Or, like, what do you. Do you think he just needs the space to get to the bar, which we'll see in a little bit, or what do you think's going through his head right now? I think that, like, he felt like the drugs were a good idea at the time and he needed to give her enough drugs to, like, get her into Vegas for sure and, like, in one piece.
And now maybe he's having a little. Like, maybe he's having some regrets about it because the old Cooper Howard is very much coming back. Oh, yeah. And, you know, like, it was amusing for a minute, but now it's not that cute anymore. And he's like, go get yourself.
Yeah. And then she says, hey, maybe they'll have something to take down one of those lizards. And he's like, I wouldn't bet on it. And they kind of separate. But then she stops and she says, where are you going?
And again, it's that. I don't want to say it's concern, but it's like, I need to know where you are. Like. Like I want to make sure that we're still connected in some way, that we have a meeting point or that we will come back together. You know, that's how it felt like, right.
That we're on the same page. And then what does Cooper say in response? Chelsea gonna go. Get up, get up. And then we see the ghoul go into a bar.
And you can already tell, like, something is clearly bothering him. Something is on his chest. He's asking for a whiskey. He wants the bottle. You know, the bartender is just talking, talking, talking.
And again, this is interesting. I feel like every single line of dialogue is in the show for a purpose. He's talking about, you know, the. The death clop. But he says, who cares about them?
Just another fucking round of change in management. That's all it is. And we get the management thing. We get the who's in charge here to let it be like this? And, you know, he's like.
It's like one of a merry go rounds. The NCR Legion. NCR Legion. Fucking robots. It doesn't matter to me.
Always someone trying to tell us what to do. Long as they don't come around. Charge me taxes, I don't give a fuck. Don't try to tax me, you know, Charge me taxes. Lizard, I'll shoot your goddamn head off.
It almost seems to imply that the lizards are, like, working for whoever is in charge or something like that. Right. Which leans heavy on the, like, the awareness that I felt like the Death Claw had in the. Like in the beginning of the last episode. When we see it with Cooper.
Yes. Like, almost like it can smell what's a threat or what's allowed and what isn't. And the ghoul is just very much. And. And Goggins delivers this line so good because it's not like I was intimidated, but if I was the bartender, I would be.
But ghouls, like, just stop talking. And he doesn't raise his voice. He doesn't do any of that. But then, you know, he kind of goes away. And this is a really interesting.
We see a lot of backstory here. We don't see Max at all in this episode, which is really interesting, because in season one, we didn't see any Max in episode four. So again, we're in episode five. It is kind of technically a midpoint episode, but we see Barb and Cooper arrive in Vegas, and Hank comes up, and he's just like, oh, sorry I'm late. Let me take your bags to the gate.
And, you know, we notice that Hank has something chained around his wrist. And he basically admits, oh, I'm suddenly a very important person and a possible assassination target. And it's. It's implied here that this is the. The fusion core.
Right? If I'm understanding the cold fusion thing. Yeah, the cold fusion. And then, so Barb is like, you know, we're going to meet you at the gate. Cooper's all like, okay, you go ahead.
I gotta call my agent. But the truth is, he is not, you know, he goes to the pay phone. We see Muldaver. Basically, they are talking. I. I really.
Again, the dialogue is just so good because she's like, glad you chose to do the right thing. And he's like, is that what you call killing a man? Basically, she has him check the coin return. And she's saying, if Robert House gets cold fusion vault, TEC gets the bomb, this is the only way to stop it. And I think it's some kind of poison or something.
Right, Chelsea? Yeah, it's definitely poison. But then Kate pulls a Quintus, and she's kind of being a manipulative bitch here because she's like, you're a soldier. You've killed before. And Cooper says something really interesting.
He says, in uniform. Uniform in uniform. And it. It throws me to, like, Lucy in her vault tech, you know, suit, or even Cooper as the ghoul. Like, are we all wearing masks?
Are we all wearing uniforms to make it. To make our decisions? Okay. Are we justifying it? You know, and it's interesting to see how much his morality has changed.
Yes. Then. To now. Because you don't hesitate to kill a man nowadays. No, I mean, and we saw that earlier with.
With the. The tunic. I mean, granted, he was technically a bad guy, but it's the same reasoning. If that guy from the Legion was so bad, Cooper didn't even hesitate, and he was ready to kill that woman, you know, because that. And then, so Kate says, wearing a costume doesn't make it any better.
I'm giving you the opportunity to save countless lives in exchange for one. So this is very philosophical. This is, do you save the many over the few or the few over the many? And it's. It's obviously an interesting theme throughout the series or in a lot of books, really.
And she's basically hits the nail on the head in terms of very much, I think this. The ends justify the means. And Cooper calls her on her shit, and he's like, dude, people have been saying that for years. He's like, I tell you what, I'm gonna stop the exchange. I'll get the cold fusion, but I'm not gonna kill a man to do it.
And he leaves. He leaves the poison.
So then it's still Cooper. He goes out and someone, I think, bangs on the car, right? And says, corporate greed has no place in government. And they kind of move him away. And, hey, you sold us out.
Oh, no, no, it's the hey, you sold us out person that bangs on the window. And apparently there's a vault tech hotel. And Barb's like, well, your ad campaign has been an enormous success. And that makes Cooper very uncomfortable. Seeing him in the vault suit doing the thumbs up makes him very uncomfortable.
And he has a couple of fans coming up. But our representative from earlier is, like, being treated really shitty. Like, yeah, poor girl. Like, private companies shouldn't be allowed to unilaterally dictate American policy. I deserve to be part of this conversation.
I'm a United States congresswoman. And then they throw her down the stairs. Yeah, they throw her down the stairs. And Cooper's the only one that helps her up. And, like, he's.
I love. I love this for him. She. You know, he's like, I'm very sorry about that. And she's like, no, no, it's fine.
Fighting the good fight. Mostly a series of humiliations. But then Barb to me, like, I was pissed with Barb. I was like, number one, Barb. You didn't even help.
You didn't even ask if she's okay. And then you cut the moment off. Not that they were having a moment, but like, she's like, coop, like, are we ready to go? Like, I was like, are you really talking to him like he was a dog on a leash? Yeah, that's the problem I have with that.
Right. And it's just like, dude, like, this lady just got thrown out. Like, you're not even going to ask if she's okay. You don't have to agree with what she represents, but you can have a little compassion. Exactly.
Show a little kindness. And I loved Cooper here. Just saying, keep at it. And then what's interesting here is Barb says, I need to talk to those reps from robco. Care to join?
Which is so fascinating because Cooper wasn't even supposed to go on this trip. And she's asking him to kind of join, and she's in. Cooper's basically like, fuck, no, I'm not. I'm not doing this.
So then we have, you know, he's basically trying to get to young Hank, and he follows her. And we see the Robert House. And it's funny because Chelsea and I think. I don't know if it was this last episode or the episode before we were talking about which one is the real House. Well, we get our answer.
The Robert house that's at the vault tech meeting from season one is not the actual Robert house, but he finds Cooper and basically says, Mr. House would like to see you. And we see. We see Cooper go in, and it's Justin Thoreau's Robert House. And Cooper's like, from the toilet. Like, oh, my gosh.
That was the. I died. That was so funny. So good. And even he's laughing and he's like, look, I just want to meet you.
I know. And. And he basically says, I know that you came to Vegas to kill me. Did you not? And that was like, really?
Like, oh, shit. You know, like. And then we get our favorite. One of our favorite characters, Chelsea. Who is it?
Hold on. I'm trying to remember the flow of events. Like, I just watched the episode. You literally messaged me. You messaged me.
The chicken. Our chicken is back. He is such a weirdo, and we love him for it. He's picking flowers. Let's get lucky, shall we?
Clearly, he's meeting someone. He's like, hello, gorgeous. How I've missed you. I'll admit you'd be disappointed in how I've behaved since we've been apart, but you can't begrudge a man for filling the void, can you? Clearly insinuating he's some chickens.
Chelsea. Who is he talking to? A robot. A robot. Robot.
A fucking robot. So just in case we're here and people are asking, can the ghoul and Lucy seriously be canon? Yes. Yes, you can fuck a robot in these video games. Lucy has messed around with her, like, no things in Fallout can happen there.
Anyway, right? So. So the guy's like. The robot's like, fully integrated security technotronic officer active and reporting for duty. Our chicken.
Like, that makes two of us. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. And then we see. We see Hank, and the chicken says, oh, looky Lou egg. Go watch from behind a shrub or something.
Like a civilized pervert. Like, if that's not an oxymoron, I don't know what is. Funniest line in this entire episode. I swear to God, I laughed so hard. Okay, so my thing is.
Okay, let's look at this from a writer's perspective for a second. I ju. Like, how the. Does Hank find this guy? Like, how.
Like, it just. It felt a little convenient for me. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I just.
And so, like, I just thought it was like a lit. Like, out of. This guy's literally alone in some rando dining area in Vegas or in this. Somewhere in, like, I don't know if he's on the strip or close to the strip. Hank could go to free side and pick up any.
Like, did he target our chicken? Like, be. I don't know. And so that I. I have a lot of questions about, you know, especially when we find out more about what happens. But so we see Hank.
And Hank's basically like, you know, how would you like to forget everything you've ever known? You know, your skills, your motor skills, and your language are going to be fine, but everything else is going to be removed from your memory. And the guy's like, please. Yes. And so I loved it.
Because you think for just a second that his head is going to explode, right? I was really expecting it, but then, no, it's like. And. And my husband. Shout out to my husband was all like, is it working on him?
Is he a ghoul? I cannot remember if he's officially cool or not. I can't remember he's officially a ghoul. Or not either. But that was my question also.
Is like, is it because he's a ghoul or because he's been on the chems or what's. What's the situation here? Because he's. I feel like he's not. He's not a regular human, I don't think.
I mean, there. Yeah. If anything, he. If. If he's not a ghoul, he's done too many drugs to still, you know, normal.
Right?
So I thought that was really interesting. And Hank's all excited when he sees this, and he says, let's begin. And then we get over to our vultees, and they're walking up to. They. They find the vault Tec building, and the guys are kind of.
They're like, it's so dirty in here. It's like walking on garbage. One of these guys must be the janitors, because we see some, you know, dead bodies in the lobby. And someone says, hey, look, it's Janice, still at her desk. Like, it's.
It was so snooty. It's so snooty. It's funny to me. It's. And then they hear, like, this banging noise, and everyone's like, oh, you know, like, what is that?
Oh. And Clark's like, I need to craft a weapon and then grabs a desk fan. Like, okay, Clark, like, all right. That's like a nod to the games, though, because you get junk like that, and you can craft weapons and armor and all that kind of out of it. That's so funny.
And then we get Ma Jun and Barb, like, two heroes. Like, I love these. Like, honestly, I miss them. It's. So glad.
I'm so glad they're back. I'm so glad they're okay. Right? I squealed. Yeah.
Not gonna lie. And, well, I'll be more vault dwellers. And Norm says, well, what do you mean, more vault dwellers? And then we kind of see Claudia talk about, you know, what's making the noise in the elevator. And it's a roach farm.
So basically, they're here to cultivate a roach farm that they then plan on selling or harvesting. But then the. The. The real conversation is between Norm and Ma Jun because it goes over to Norm. And he says, well, you met my sister.
And she said, yeah, you know, before the brotherhood burnt it down.
And she just explains how she knows Lucy, and it's totally going over Norm's head. And Norm is, like, a very book smart guy, and he's like, I don't Understand what any of that means. And she's like, well, I'm sorry, I forget you vaultes don't care much for current events and basically just tells him straight, your sister's dead. And I love Norm. She's like, no, you don't know that.
You don't know my sister. Like, I love that, Norm. Oh, my gosh. And. But she.
She comes back, she's like, well, you know what? I know the wasteland better than you, and I know plenty well what folks do to it with as soft as you are, you know, Basically, she basically tells him to go home. If you idiots need supplies for the trip, help yourselves, but don't touch my roach farm. Good luck, dipshits. And I love this because Barb is like, suddenly your big Samaritan, huh?
And she's like, shut the the up. I'm trying to be a better person. And I loved that. That was like. That was a great moment.
It was genuinely excellent. Oh, yeah, no, it was. It was great.
So then we go and we see Lucy. Basically, she kind of goes up to this. The store, and she notices that all of the things are priced much higher and she doesn't have that much. And Lucy completely abandons her morals, sneaks into the back and is ready to steal. Like, girl, I was shooketh.
I. I was. I was almost like, Lucy, Like, Lucy, are you serious right now? I mean, in a way, it's. It kind of worked out because this is so. Like, I'm just dead, like, literally picturing the scene.
Because I love Fallout for the subtlety and the not so subtlety and how they married it. Because this guy in the background, as we're watching Lucy debate on whether or not to steal the stuff, there's this dude in an outfit that is way too small for him, and he's just there. And I'm telling my husband, I'm like, what the is going on? Because there are times when fallout. They're not going to explain anything to you.
They don't have to explain anything to you. But then Lucy's kind of walking. She sees the. What? The robot arm?
What are we calling that? Like, I don't know. Oh, God. That they call them something in the game. And I cannot think of it to save my life.
But, like, it is excellent. Yes. Also, I regret this decision immensely. Yes. She walks by a trash can with a cut up body, a human body.
And I was just. Literally, this is how fallout has contaminated. I was just gonna go with it. Like, yeah, of course a dead body would be cut up. In the.
Like, I was just thinking that was normal in Fallout. So she. She gets. She gets this weapon in her backpack. She takes the.
The drug stuff, too. Like, she does listen to Cooper, even though she's stealing it, you know, she does listen. She takes it. And again, you could rationalize, is that a justifiable stealing, you know, because it's so much. It's priced out of her, you know, out of her.
I don't know, her budget. Yeah. Yeah. But then she's caught, and she says, you know, the shopkeeper's like, well, what are you doing? And she's like, well.
Well, I. I just. I came into the wrong door. Are you sunny? And this guy is a liar, too. Like, I'm like, lucy, why are you having.
Why aren't you just leaving? Why aren't you getting the. Out? Like, why. It's almost like she has to have it confirmed.
You know what I mean? Like, why do we have to keep. You already know what happened. Come on, now. But Simon's like.
He left town. And so she's like, oh, okay. So he's not in the trash can behind me. And the guy's like. Simon's like, no, that's the guy who tried to rob the place.
Oh, okay. Well, he's naked. So did he come here naked? And he's like, yeah. I mean, it's not weird for someone to rob a store naked.
Lots of people do it. Okay? And I'm like, I believe it. I believe a lot of people would do that. And she's like, okay, well, I'm just gonna be leaving now.
And you're not gonna shoot me as I go. Sir, don't touch that gun. If you touch that gun, I'm gonna have to maim you. Lucy thinks she shoots his arm. So she goes over to say, I'm sorry, but she doesn't.
She doesn't. She killed him. And a person comes into the store, and she's like, oh, who are you? And Lucy whispers, I don't. No.
And I. I loved that. I loved that. Because it's sort of like we knew Lucy was gonna get her moment of being like Cooper in a way, where in a. In a life or death situation, she's going to have to kill, like, unfortunately, you know, but that's. That's what it is.
And so what do you think is going through Lucy's head here as she realizes what she did? You know? Like, do you think this sobers her up? Do you think this doesn't. That she doesn't want to do Drugs again.
Do you think she's realizing that sometimes you have to make decisions, like, what do you think she's going through? Like, what she's thinking about right now? I think there's going to be a lot of self recrimination. I like, I think it's definitely going to push her towards not taking drugs anymore. Yeah.
Because what kind of decisions am I making on these drugs? And, like, what does that say about me as a person? That when my inhibitions are lowered, these are the kind of decisions that I'm making? And not only making the decisions, but justifying it, utilizing her morality, like utilizing the Golden Rule and kind of tainting it with this corruption. You get what I'm saying?
Like, exactly. Yeah, I agree with you. I think if I'm writing Lucy, and obviously I'm not, but if I'm writing Lucy, I'm hope I'm. I'm putting her in these positions because, number one, she is on drugs. So her mind is altered.
She acts before she thinks. She can't kind of help herself at certain points, but I think that some of the lessons that she learned on drugs are important for her growth as a character. So. Absolutely. Because, like, when she leaves the store, and we'll talk about this after we talk about the flashback scene, it doesn't feel like she's mourning the guy.
You know what I mean? Like, she's ready to get back to Cooper. And so I'm not necessarily saying she's fine with what happened or how it happened. And I think that that's why we see her say, well, I'm never touching drugs again. But at the same time, she might come to the realization that there are certain instances where it has.
I have to put people down or at least incapacitate them to a very potentially fatal degree if I want to. If I want to continue on my journey like Cooper is continuing on with his. If you can justify why you need more drugs because it's for the greater good to stop your dad, then you could potentially justify anything as long as it gets you to your dad. And I think that when she realizes that, it's like Cooper justifying everything he's had to do to get to his family. And I think that parallel really scares her because she was so adamant in episode two.
I am nothing like you. I will never be you. And yet she's slowly turning into him. I mean, granted, again, she is altered because of the drugs, but how easy it is to turn into him when you have your inhibitions kind of taken away. You know, What I mean.
Yep, I know exactly what you mean. So then we go to, you know, we go back to Cooper and House, and he basically, Robert admits to being a little bit of a stalker. I mean, understood. Understood, but, you know, a little bit of a stalker.
He says he's interested in you.
And then he talks about destinies being mathematically entwined. They admit that the. The double has pretended to be Robert house for about 10 years.
And it's. I love that. He says it's a living. Yeah, that's so funny. And it's interesting because I feel like they have the alpha masculine standoff.
Like, come down here, let's talk. Cooper's like, I'm not gonna come. Come down there. And he talks about Alaska. Robert House does.
And he talks about how he saw everything that happened because of, you know, he licensed a piece of software to West Tech and they gave me access to the armor. So he. He refers. I saw the demon in the snow. And he says, I believe that it's connected to the future of this great nation.
And to your wife. He doesn't say, to Vault tec. He doesn't say to, you know, anything else. He specifically mentions Barb. Right.
And see that circle back when Norm is at Vault Tech looking things up on the computer. Yes. And so Cooper does come down. So he is the first to kind of give into this little standoff. He talks about, you know, Robert House talks about being an apex competitor.
We are the very best at what we do. And what I do is know everything. I know who's making what technology, and I acquire that technology at the most lucrative moments in its span of functionality. He's like, this week, I'm acquiring cold fusion from Volt tec. And Cooper says, from my wife.
And he says, correct. It will allow me to stay alive indefinitely in roboticized non biological form and protect Las Vegas from the. The coming nuclear war. Now, to me, this sounds like Robert House is a good guy. Like, and I'm not gonna justify the technology that he's utilizing on, you know, innocent people.
But it sounds like, again, I want to keep myself alive as a robot for however long I can because I want to protect my city from this nuclear war. And Cooper says, initiated by my wife. And Robert says, unclear. And Cooper says, we'll buy Vault TEC then. And Robert says, no.
He says, I doubt that. Despite what we both heard at that meeting, Vault TEC is a collision of bureaucrats. And he says, your wife, though, I don't know. And Cooper says, you said you knew everything. And so he.
Robert talks about how he runs mathematical paradigms, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he figured out when the world would end. And Cooper's like, okay, a calculator told you that. Which was very Cooper Howard. And he said, robert says the date of the end of the world may not interest you, but the date the Data coalesced might. April 14, 2065 at
05:17.
Is that date of anything, any interest to you? And Cooper says, that's my daughter's birthday. Chelsea, dumb this down for me. Like, what does this imply about Barb and about Robert House and all? Like, what does this mean?
Right. Like, it's. I. It brought up a lot of questions for me and I don't really have any answers, honestly. But like, the date that the world is gonna end being on your daughter's birthday, and you're the person that decided that you're the Baltic is gonna drop the nukes.
Like, that's, that's sus. Like, if this is Robert House not lying to him, like, let's just, you know, play devil's advocate and say that everything that's coming out of his mouth is absolutely 100 true. Okay. So my thing is Robert does not give Vault Tec any credit. He.
Or not any credit. He. He doesn't take them seriously. He thinks that they're all bureaucrats. He thinks that, you know, whatever, but he's singling out Barb.
Do you think he's doing this to manipulate Cooper, or do you think he genuinely thinks that Barb is potentially a threat to what Robert House wants or that sort of thing? I think he thinks Barb is a genuine threat. And I'm inclined to agree with him, especially with what we see later in the episode. Agreed. Because not only is she the person who decided we're.
We're gonna nuke everybody, like she's also the reason that the death claws exist, apparently so at least incredibly involved with why the death clause exists. So I. And okay, my thing is, if Barb chose her daughter's birthday for the world to end, like, that's up, right? Like terribly up. Okay.
So. And she could probably justify it to herself in her head and as, like, she and Janie are going to live in a better world once they come out of cryo and all of this kind of stuff. Right. And like, it's a gift to Janie because I'm going to give you a better life. Yeah.
That's the only way I can see her justifying that to herself, even though that's a way an insane person would justify something. But I could see it happening, right? Like the chicken makes more sense ready to a robot than what Barb is doing, in my opinion. So, Robert House. Okay, more curious is that you were not meant to come to Vegas this weekend.
Your wife Barbara was meant to come alone the moment that you bought your ticket to Las Vegas, the date the world was going to end, jumped forward by one month. And Cooper's like, what are you, a fortune teller now? This is where I'm inclined. Okay, is Robert House kind of like an unreliable narrator here? Like, why?
Oh, you know, maybe it jumps because of the conversation that Coop and Barb have, you know, in the hotel room that we'll talk about when we get to. I don't know. But he basically, Robert House is like, look, I'm a mathematician, a roboticist, and a casino owner. I don't know yet how you figure into all this, but you do. And I don't like unknown variables.
Justin Thoreau is so good with his delivery here. Like, he's a good crazy person, but a reserved, like, logical crazy person, which doesn't make sense, but you get what I'm saying? Oh, yeah, I get it. And Robert is basically like, I don't know how you play a part in ending the world. And Cooper's like, well, you know, the person that wanted me to kill you?
They say you're going to end things by selling Vault Tec the weapons it needs. And Robert says, no, the bombs will not be dropped by me or any of the idiots at the meeting. So he's saying, it's not me and it's not Vault Tech. He thinks there's another player at the table, the same unknown entity responsible for the demon in the snow. And Cooper says, who?
Robert's like, I don't know. It's irksome. Like, I live my life by one simple maxim. And Cooper's like, the house always wins. And he's like.
Robert's like, it does. I'm making sure of using it. Every single piece of technology at my disposal. But then he says, what if I'm not the House? What if someone else is?
What do you think he means by that, Chelsea? Like, that someone else is benefiting from all of this, or. What does he mean? Yeah, I think he means that someone else is benefiting from all of this. I think someone else is going to come out on top.
And I think that someone is Barb or Barb's hidden, unseen partner. Okay, I'm just going to say it right here. I was gonna wait until the episode was over. I. I hope it is Barb. I hope that she gets to be a villain.
I hope that she is a complete. Because I want to see. I don't want to see her being a victim. I don't want to see another man using a woman. You know, I want her to be the bad bitch making the decisions.
Yes. I want to hate her. Like, I want to be. I don't. I want to be able to hate someone.
Like, that's okay. Like, come on. Like. Like, I just. I want to be able to hate her.
I want Cooper to realize that. That, like, I. I just. It's not even about my ship. It's not even about my ship because, again, we're gonna go into this at the end of the episode because there are a lot of callbacks that I want to talk through, but I just. I'm.
Part of me is very concerned that they're going to turn Barbara into a victim, and I'm going to be really pissed off if they do that. Right? Like, I want to see her in a position of power, and I want that power to remain with Barb. I don't want to see her being puppeteered by a fucking man. Right?
I want her to be the smart. I want her to be conniving. I want her to be. I want her to be Cersei Lannister. Like, I want to see her pull that off.
Because in a way, if. If they give that to her, she would. Cooper could not. I mean, he could justify hating her for a lot of reasons, but then she could just throw back the same morality, that coup that has helped keep cooper alive for 200 years. And that would be a.
A kick in the dick, to be honest, because, like, you survive so much by hating somebody and maybe even by needing answers, but essentially, you're rationalizing why you had to get to where you needed to go or how you. How to survive. And that's technically Barb's whole thing, too. Like, all I care about is my family survival. That's essentially what Hank is doing.
And Cooper will never admit it, but it's essentially what he is doing to get to his family. And so you have. Again, it's like that line that Robert House says in the last episode. You have so many different people solving one problem in so many different ways. And so it's sort of like, I don't.
I don't think that Cooper could be like. Because, you know, there are those corrupt arcs where it's like, okay, if Barb is the bad, then Cooper's gonna go and be, you know, her man in. In her corrupt. Like, I don't think that that's how it is. I think that Cooper's going to regain his humanity because of Lucy.
But I really. I do not want Barbara. And when we go into norm scene, we'll go into it a little bit more, but it's like, I. I do not want her to be a victim here. I want her to have complete autonomy over the decisions that she makes. I want her to own it, and I want her to.
I want her to not apologize for it. I want her to be completely unapologetic. Right.
So anyway, okay, so Cooper's just basically like, you're a lunatic. And House is like, look. Look at your small life. Spending your days pretending to be a cowboy while your wife is making apocalyptic proposals at board meetings. And I'm building a missile system to defend this glorious city from what's coming.
But from whom? Who am I doing this? Like, from whom. Who ends the world? Is it you?
What if it is you? I don't think you're a cowboy at all. I think you're a killer. I think I know exactly who you are.
I don't think this means that Cooper ends the world. I don't think it's. I don't think it means that he's the one that pushes the button. I don't think so either. I think that potentially, I mean, there is a chance that maybe Cooper thinks he's doing the right thing.
Almost like Max's dad and he cuts a. He cuts the button or he cuts the wire and it turns out to be the kill switch or whatever. I could see potentially that happening. But I don't think Cooper Hauer ends the world because if. If.
Because, I mean, he. He was at the birthday party. He didn't know what the. Was going on. Like, or he was surprised when he was completely stunned.
Right. That it was happening and he had Janie with him. Yeah. So, like, I don't see it being him unless it's in some really sick, twisted Greek tragedy kind of way. Like, unless when Cooper and Barb have the talk that they.
That they have at the end of this episode and Cooper throws the date out, I know exactly when it's going to happen. And then Barb tells her super, whoever her partner is, if it's not Voltec, then maybe they move it up because Cooper already knew the date. So in a way, it is his fault. Right. Maybe then, like.
Right. Blind soothsayer kind of way. Yeah, I Mean, possibly, but I don't. I don't know. So then we flash back, and this might be the scene that we're talking about where we get Ronnie.
So Ronnie's kind of taking charge, and Norm is letting him because Norm is smart. And apparently they were trying to call the investors, but Ronnie basically says, okay, Clark, you get this operational. Pete, go get that one. And then Norm kind of sees Claudia, who's crying, and, you know, like, she's basically like, look, this happened base. You know, like, I. I didn't think it was.
I didn't realize. Like, I thought it was going to hit me all at once. It didn't. You know, my parents are gone. Even if they survive the bombs, they are not gonna survive as long as, you know.
Now my friends are gone, my cat's gone. You know, they talk about the cat's name, and Norm kind of says, you don't strike me as the kind of person who would sign up for a program like this. Did you know going in about the future enterprise ventures? And Claudia says, like I said, I just started this job a week ago, but everything these people talked about sounded pretty nutty to me. So they're talking about it.
Claudia doesn't really know exactly, but she does say, you know, there's this exact. Bud's boss, her name was Barbara Howard. She was in charge of all the fault proposals. And Norm says, do you know where her office is? But we see Rani kind of spying on this conversation.
And Claudia basically calls out, norm, you're not really Bud's successor. And Norm admits it. I think Norm kind of likes her. Like, I think Norm kind of likes her, too. Like, there are vibes there.
Yeah. And Claudia says, because you're not absolutely nuts. And she's like, thank you.
And she says, the rest of them are nuts. They. They bet their whole lives on Bud Askins and his weird multi millennial plan. If they realize you took that from them, there's no telling what they'll do. Sorry if that came across a little dramatic, but, you know, like, she basically says, I saw the world end.
She leaves to go get a drink. So Norm is at Barb's desk. How did you notice there was a picture of Janie, but no picture of Cooper? No picture of Cooper. Yes.
I was looking for that. Nothing. Not even. I was kind of looking at, like, did he. Did she have movie posters?
No, there were no movie posters. No pictures. It was just a picture of Janie by herself. So Norm types in future enterprise ventures, but it comes out as nothing. But it says, like, related search fev.
Yep. So it was forced evolutionary virus and that. Okay, Chelsea, what do you think that specifically is? I think they used this virus to create the Death clause, and that was under Barb's purview. And she's the reason they exist.
Well, I mean, clearly, she had it in her computer. She had at least data in her computer. So to me, that talks about that at least implies that she was aware of the. She was aware of them. She knew their existence.
She knew what they were trying to. To do with them. She knew all of that.
This whole episode is very much like, stripping away of the veil and, like, stripping away of illusions kind of episode. Yeah, 100%.
I just. I mean, think about it for a second. If that's the case, like, if that's the case and Barb knew about the death clause, do you think she worked at VTECH during the war or before? I think she did. Like, my gut says yes.
Do you think that she knew her husband or boyfriend? I don't know if they were married at the time, but do you think she knew he was going to, like, in the field with those? Yeah, I think maybe she did. That is wild. If.
If that's the case, that's wild. And that's my concern, is that I don't want her to be like, I. I didn't know. I don't know. I want her to have known. And I want.
The reason that the Death Claw didn't attack Cooper is because she had trained it. That IT scent was something you protect or leave alone, something that you, like, you would attack. I like that. I really like that. That's my new head cannon.
Until. Until we find out otherwise. Yeah. So then Ronnie comes in, grabs the cord from Barb's computer, and basically chokes Norm out. Like, I'm not gonna lie.
Me and my husband are like, dude, didn't you take fighting lessons with your sister? Can you please fight back? Norm, we think Claudia's gonna come over with, like, a wine bottle. And I hope Claudia knocks Ronnie the out, and I also hope she kills him just because I don't like him. I don't either, but part of me is, like, I want the information that he has because he knows, like, you know, like, he knows.
I want Claudia and Norm to, like, get Ronnie alone. I want Claudia to come to Norm's rescue and save Norm's life. And then I want them to get Ronnie off alone somewhere away from everybody else, and I want them to torture the information out of him. Oh, yeah, that would be because that's the kind of person I am, and that's the kind of writer I am, which is why this. This romantic comedy that I'm working on is a little bit difficult for me because I can't use my usual devices that I do with dark romance.
That's funny. Okay, so we go over. We. Cooper. It's.
It's wild how they did the flashback and merging it with the current. And I thought it was. It was. It was amazing because we see the old Cooper Howard and the humanity struggling with what he is now. But he goes upstairs and correct me if I'm wrong, they never discuss, hey, meet me at this building.
And yet, somehow, Lucy knows exactly where to meet Cooper. So I'm assuming this happens off the page. Chelsea, did you. When Lucy walks in, did you ever just, like, think, oh, there's only one bed. What's gonna happen now?
I did. I had that moment. The reader in me was like, oh, just one bed. And he's sitting Like, I'm not. No joke.
He is sitting exactly like all the fanfics write him out to be. Like, his legs are, like. Ankles are resting on the bed. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I was like, is this what's going on?
And then, so Lucy comes in, and she says, I think we can say I am officially done with. And she's about to throw up, and he says, window. Okay, this surprised me. She's throwing up, and he comes over, and he touches her back, right? Like, he's comforting her, and he's being so gentle with her.
And I'm like, oh, this is about to me up. Literally. No. Okay, so here's. I, I.
And, like, my gut's like, he's gonna go comfort her. But I was like, no, no, no, that's too romantic. He's not gonna do that. But then he does it, and I'm like. I'm like, holy.
He doesn't have to do that. He. Even when we find out what happens in the next five minutes, he didn't have to do that. And, like, it's. It's almost like he's allowing himself to have this one soft thing before everything goes sideways.
Like, he knows it's going to. And he. If you think about it, it's probably the first time in 200 years that he's touched someone without the intention of doing some kind of harm. Harm. And the fact that she doesn't flinch when he does touch her.
I mean, granted, she's throwing up, but still. Still, like, he. She allows the Comfort. Because I don't know if you. Like, like my first ever boyfriend, when he would throw up, like, he would not even want me and that he would be like, get the.
Get out. Like, don't touch me. Like. And I know some people have that mentality. Like, they do not want to be touched when they're sick.
They don't want any. But it was just. I was just like, I go back and forth, but, like, if I'm actively throwing up, I don't want anybody anywhere near me. Like, don't touch me, don't talk to me. Do not acknowledge that, you know, I exist until I am done throwing up.
Then you can rub my back. Yeah. And whatever. And, like, give me some Listerine to wash my mouth out with and all this kind of. But, like, do not with me while I'm actively being sick.
I don't know. I think for me, I want my hair held back. And I don't know. I like being. I. I'm just a soft, sensitive person.
So. But. But she accepts it. She accepts it from him. And he's very gentle, like you said.
And he's like, you done? And she says, thanks. And this is the moment that breaks our heart. But I think. I think we both knew what was coming, right?
Like, we absolutely knew what was coming. And the ghoul said, least I can do, considering. And I knew. My husband's like, wait, what? And I was like, no, I knew.
My husband is so good at, like, regular plot points, especially, like, mystery and plot twists. I am really good with the romance stuff. I was like, no, no, I. I already was bracing myself for it. This is like the black moment of their romantic arc. Yes.
For this season, the breakup. So Lucy says, who's that? And the ghoul says, I'll let him explain. And so our chicken who cleans up pretty well, like, let's be honest. But basically, he says, I was sent here by your father.
Mr. McLean is very impressed that you followed him this far, but he's quite, quite secure in an underground facility. There's no reaching him from here, not without his explicit invitation. And Lucy, like, sacks up, essentially, and says, you're going to walk right back out of here and lead us to my father right now. And he says, unfortunately, I don't have permission. We obviously see that he's being controlled.
And he says, Mr. McLean is watching over this gentleman's wife and daughter. They are quite peacefully resting in stasis. And it wouldn't be. And wouldn't it be a shame if Mr. McLean had to terminate that slumber prematurely. They most assuredly wouldn't survive the process.
Why do you think he. Is that true? Like, we saw Norm release a bunch of people. Like, why would. I mean, well, like, in the beginning of Fallout 4, like, you come out of stasis earlier than planned, right?
Sole survivor. So that's my question is unless Hank himself would. Like, that's like a cutesy way of saying Hank would kind of do something to them in order. He would terminate them in order to manipulate the ghoul into giving him Lucy. Right.
So Lucy says don't. It's an explicit threat. Whether Lucy reads yes or not. I. I think it. Yeah, it is.
It is a threat. Lucy says, don't listen to them. Whatever it is, we can't trust him. And he continues. However, Mr. McLean is willing to make a deal.
One family safety for another's. Mr. McLean will leave your wife and daughter safe and sound in their cryo chambers if you bring his daughter back to the safety of her vault. I read. I heard this and thought Cooper had to take her back to Vault 33. That's right.
That's how I read it, too. Like, that's. That's what I was hearing. Okay. So.
So then Lucy says, what? And you know this. Our chicken says, your father is in the process of setting certain plans in motion. He'd like it if you'd be able to wait it out safe and sound back home. Do you accept?
And it's crazy, because we see the inner conflict in Cooper, but. Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna lay you some issues, and you either tell me if you agree or play devil's advocate with me, because I'm like, cooper motherfucking Howard, who doesn't trust shit, is literally trusting this guy. Trusting that Hank not like, is going to live up to his end of the bargain. And I know.
I know the family dangling in front of him. I get that, but why. Why would Cooper initially just. Okay, yeah, I'll do that. I trust that you're not going to hurt my family.
Like, why. Like, why does he trust that? I. Like, I don't think that he actually does trust that. And I'm hoping that there's, like, a double cross or, like, some other.
Like, some other solution that he comes up with. But he needed Lucy to believe, for whatever reason, that he was giving her up to her father. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, dude. Like, he looks broken right now to me.
I feel like it's killing him to give her up. Yeah. No, the Fact that he is this broken about it shows that he, he, he deeply cares for her. The fact that he's even hesitating, like Lucy says, you can't actually be considering this. The fact that he doesn't immediately be like, oh, I got you where you needed to go.
Sucker. Get me my family. That is a huge character growth. Like, like he's literally debating between Lucy and his family right now when it should be a no brainer, like, it should be your family without question. But it's not for him.
And we, and we see it. And then when Lucy says that, when Lucy says, you can't actually be considering this, and then the ghoul says her name, like, not Ms. Lucy, not Ms. McLean, but Lucy, Lucy, I brought you here to bargain with. This is the bargain. And then, like, Lucy's like, heartbroken. Like, she literally let down her guard for the ghoul, looked at him as a partner, and she says, we were actually beginning to get along.
And he even admits it. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I know we have more, like, moments to get into, but, like, let's break this down. Like, tell me your initial thoughts from a writer perspective and a shipper perspective, because, like, I, I just want to know what you think, like, in either initial reactions or now that you've had a couple of hours to think about it, like, all of that stuff. Like what? As a writer, this is a beautiful, romantic, black moment. And I really, like, I'm interested to see how the.
They're gonna fix it. Because, like, I was very much like, excuse the. Out of me. What just happened? I believe I texted you that.
Yeah, in all caps. Like, excuse me, you did? But, like, as, as a writer, you gotta make them suffer. You gotta make them suffer before they can have their happily ever after. It's part of the deal.
Yeah. And I like, understand this part of the social contract between writers and consumers, whether you're readers or whether you're watching it or whatever. Like, I know that we have to suffer, but that doesn't mean that I'm not going to be mad about it. Like, I'm big mad right now. I think that it's actually very positive for the ship.
I know some people might be, like, melting down, but again, if you actually look at how hard it was for Cooper to make this decision in the first place, I think that. So my question to you, Chelsea, is, do you think. I don't think Cooper had this whole thing set up. Right? Like, that's not why he was pushing for free side in the Last episode, I think that the chicken essentially finds him in the bar.
Right? Like, right. I'm assuming. So. Okay, so, like, I ju.
I knew. I knew that he. Like, my thing is more like, did Lucy just think that he was being nice to her by having her. Her tag along for her father? Like, I think that, like, if she didn't trust the ghoul, like, if she was mad at him based on everything she knew about him.
I don't understand. I mean, it might be a big shock because they were just starting to get along or because at the very least, she thought that Cooper would be honest. Like, why wouldn't Cooper just talk to her about this? Right. You know what I mean?
Like. Like, I feel like she. She. Lucy's very logical. It would make sense for this to happen.
Right? Yeah. So I just don't understand. Like, and I know, again, that big catalyst is his family. So it's not like I'm questioning why he would turn Lucy over for his family.
As much as I know that he cares about Lucy and potentially to my ship or heart. And even from a writing perspective, I think that he's falling in love with her. But I think if it were just Barb, it's a different story. But because Janie is part of that, he's going to pick Janie. And I can't discredit.
I can't take that away from him. But it's more about, again, the nature of their relationship has developed. So why couldn't. Why couldn't he have that conversation of, look, I didn't just. I didn't just have you leave, you know, your hunk of metal back there, you know, for funsies, I'm here to get my family, and you are a key to do that.
And even, like, did it not cross Lucy's mind? Like, I understand being naive, but she hated that. Like, she was very upset with the ghoul for his behavior and for how he treated people and all of that. So, like, I don't know, it just felt like. I don't know.
I just. I think. I think that this moment needed to happen. I'm not saying it was bad. I just think that, like, based on the evidence that we have and the relationship development, I think it could have happened in a different way.
You know what I mean? I agree.
I really love that it's not Lucy put in a position of choice. It's creating Cooper. I thought that was really interesting. And I think that we all kind of talked about, okay, Cooper's going to have to choose between Lucy and his family. But I thought that choice wasn't going to happen until, like, if not this season, then potentially season three after, you know, after more time with Lucy.
But yeah, I mean, okay, so I understand him not giving his daughter up. I th percent do. And like, he's fought so hard and so long to get to that. And as much as it kills my shipper heart, like, I absolutely see where he's coming from, but I'm hoping that there's, like, some way that he can fix this. Yeah.
And like, I don't think Lucy's gonna forgive him as easily this time. No, I don't think so. And I think he knows that. I think that that is why it guts him when he does it. So.
So he gotta fix it anyway. He has to. He fires a tran gun at her and she kind of collapses. And, you know, our chicken kind of runs off and he's saying, okay, I'm gonna inform management that you made an agreeable decision. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And the ghoul says, take a nap. When you wake up, you'll be home. And I don't understand that because I'm like, it took you like two and a half weeks just to get out to. No. To like Vegas, right?
Based on. Based on what? Chicken said you were supposed to deliver her back to Vault 3 while Hank is doing some shady. So how is it even possible that you're going that you're. I.
Again, I don't understand that. Like, there's no way Lucy's gonna be trained for two and a half weeks. There's no way. No. So that didn't make any sense to me.
And then he says, couldn't be helped. Families, a fucked up thing. I think he's saying this to justify himself. I. I don't think he believes it necessarily. Like, in terms of self justification, for sure.
Like, he's trying to make himself feel better and it's not.
So then we see Cooper Howard. It flashes back and it's interesting because I don't know, why do you think they put this part in here where the lady gives him a kiss on the cheek? Right? Like, I don't know. I think the Cooper that he was back then would be upset about that.
Yeah. Like, how loyal he was to Barb. Yeah. Like, I know he. And I know he doesn't do it.
He. But he doesn't push her off. And I know that he's drunk and maybe he's rationalizing. I'm pissed off, and I'm pissed off with Barb. Because I'm essentially in the position I am because of her.
But I just thought there's a lot of different ways to, I don't know, betray, but like to be angry and to lash out. And we clearly see him doing that by getting drunk. Right. But it was just an interesting. Especially after that moment with Lucy, it was just a.
To me, it seemed like a random thing to. To put in there. You know what I mean? Like, why? And so unless it was like a series of betrayals leading up to.
I don't know. But so we see. We see a lot of like, flashbacks and flash forwards and they're kind of interposing both things because we see that happen. We see him ride the missile. We see Lucy breathing heavily.
And Lucy is a badass here. Good for her. And I don't know if it's. Because there's. I mean, I know that she took the.
She took the, you know, the thing to get the drugs out of her system, and that's why she's able to resist the tranq for so long. Yeah. I'm wondering if that's it, because then she pulls out her weapon and she essentially, like, shoots Cooper with it. And honestly, he deserved it. I'm fine with what she does to him.
Like, there and then Lucy says, this is. Breaks my heart. She says, I thought we were friends. Like, she's literally looking down at him and as he's impaled on whatever the. That was, I don't really know.
But she's like, I thought we were friends. Like, the. The heartbreak in that. And I, like, he has to find a way to fix this. If he doesn't have, like, find a way to fix this, I'm going to be incredibly upset.
I think he does. I think that that goes. Okay, so here's. We can jump into this right now. Theories for the rest of the season.
I think that this is where. So we saw Lucy. I don't know if she, like, if she's in her specific vault or a vault, because we'll talk about at the end what happens, but I think Hank has her and he wants her to be the perfect daughter that he knows that she can be. And so I don't know if he's trying to do that with the. The mind control.
Mind control thing or what. But I think that when Lucy's there and I'm. Because there's the yellow dress and everyone. I want to see Cooper see Lucy in that yellow dress. It looks really pretty.
Right. I think Lucy's gonna try to figure out Barb and Janie figure out where they are. I think that she's too good of a person not to. At least not maybe she can still be upset with Cooper, but I think that even part of her has to understand Janie at the very least, you know, and. Absolutely.
So I'm thinking that that might be what Lucy does or attempts to do while she's in the vault with her dad. And I think that the scene from the series sort of trailer where Max and Cooper are paired up, I think that the. I'm. I'm hoping that it's. That it comes from Cooper, that it's not from Max who finds out what happened to Lucy and basically forces the ghoul.
I don't see that happening based on any of their character arcs right now. I think hopefully the ghoul realizes he up and is forced to. To go and ask Max for help in some kind of capacity. Right. Because that would be so good for his character arc.
If he's forced to do it, then it completely takes away the autonomy and the choice behind it. And he could just basically tell him to off because he made his choice. And if, if he doesn't, if he himself doesn't make the choice to save Lucy to. Then what was the. Then what was the whole point of betraying her in the first place?
You know what I mean? And so I think with the writing, I'm trusting that they're. They're going to do it the right way. I'm thinking that they're going to try to go in to save Lucy.
I don't know how Max is involved yet, but I. I think that Lucy is going to have to put her father down. I think it has to be Lucy.
And I don't know if season three is going to be more about making sure Barb and Janie are safe or maybe they have to get stuff in order to make sure their transition. I don't know. But I'm hoping that I would leave Barb's ass in crow sleep and just wake Janie up if that was me. I agree. I'm very curious.
Anyway, okay, let's move forward. What's. What are your thoughts? What are your theories for the rest of series? Like, what do you think's going to happen just from your understanding from writing structure and romance writing and all of that?
Like, what do you think's going to happen as a romance writer? I would hope that it would take a similar track to what I did in his Wicked game where like, he's up immensely. He has Betrayed her in ways that are unimaginable, and now she's in danger because of it. He has to be the one that saves her. And he also has to acknowledge that he's the one that put her in that situation.
And, like, sorry, spoilers for one of my books, you guys. But I. I feel like there has to be, like, I want to see some groveling after the way this went. Let me ask you a question. They warned us with. He's demon, He's a devil, He's a doll, or however, whatever order that goes in.
Like, they warned us. They warned us that the betra was coming, and I didn't want to listen, but, like, we know how these things have to work. Yeah.
So. So we flash back to Cooper. He's panting just like Lucy was on the floor. And Barb comes over, and she's actually. She's actually kind of helps him to the.
The room. And she's being a lot nicer than I would be if that were my husband making a sense spectacle of himself, you know? But he looks up at her and he just says, we need to talk. We need talk.
So then it flashes over to where Lucy kind of, like, faints a little bit, and we see Hank over her, and he says, my little sugar bomb. So this is where I'm like, super, super, super confused because. And what do they end the song, the episode with. You always heard the one. You love the song.
And I don't like what the. Because there was no. There was no Barb Cooper moment where Barb was hurt. Like, maybe you could. You could argue maybe Cooper was hurt in the flashback, but that's from information from Robert House, not a direct thing from Barb.
This song is about Lucy and Cooper. Absolutely. A thousand percent. Like, it is about the ship and about the moment that we're at in their. Their story arc.
At the moment is that you always hurt the one you love. So the lyrics that play. I'll just read it. It says, you always hurt the one you love, the one you shouldn't hurt at all. You always take the sweetest rose and crush it till the petals fall.
You always break the kindest heart with a hasty word you can't recall. So if I broke your heart last night, it's because I love you most of all. Yep. Talk me down from that. I cannot talk you down from that because I'm further off the cliff than you are.
Yeah, like, where to, God? Like, I'm done. Also, can we just, like, a little nod to the Beauty and the Beast Vibes of the petals fall. Imagery. Oh, yeah.
100. So, like, obviously, I'm really looking forward to episode six because we're gonna finally get. Hopefully. Hopefully get the confrontation between Barb and Cooper about, you know, what the going on, but we'll talk about. Okay, so my.
My issue is you just. The deal was that Cooper was supposed to take lucy back to 33, so what the is Hank doing here? Right? Like, that. I think it was all just a lie.
Like, maybe a lie of, like, Hank was gonna come and take Cooper. Like, put. I don't know. Like. I don't know.
I'm trying to figure out, like, how did Hank even know to get there? Like. Like, chicken doesn't come back that we see, you know? So, I mean, unless Hank has eyes everywhere, which I could potentially believe, and he saw what Lucy did to Cooper. Like, I don't.
I don't understand because I'm like, again, you can't tran her and take her back for two and a half. Like, two and a half weeks. Are you serious? Right? I mean, I would love to see it because that would bond there.
But are you telling me that Hank is gonna trust Cooper to take. To take him her back without, like, making another plan or getting more. Like. It just. It didn't.
It didn't make a lot of sense. And the fact that Cooper went with it, like, again, family's a up thing. I. I get that they're holding the family over her head, but then to. To trade her. So he doesn't know what Hank's gonna do to his daughter.
I mean, unless he thinks that Hank's not gonna do anything to her. I mean, I don't know. Like. Right. So I just.
I just don't know. Like, in terms of. The writing itself is good, the dialogue is good, and the scenes are good, but it doesn't make as much like. I feel like this season is a little bit more convoluted than season one. Like, I feel like season one was very cause and effect, which I really liked.
It's very clear. You can kind of rationalize every choice that the characters made. But I feel like for this season, it's a little bit different, and some of the choices or decisions were made simply to get the plot moving along versus you've set that up in a way that makes sense. If that makes sense. It does.
Okay, so let's talk about really quick.
As far as we know, Cooper and Barb are divorced before the bombs drop, or at least separated. Barb has no. I think it's Divorced. Because they talk about the divorce in episode one. Oh, I think you're right.
Yes, I think you're right. So here's what I know based on the show. Number one, I don't think I know for a fact Barb would never choose to drop the bombs. If Janie isn't guaranteed to be safe, secure. Yes.
The one place where I would be like, okay, she didn't know is the date of the bombs dropping. That's the only allowance that I want to be able to give her. Number two, Cooper had to have gotten Janie to Barb. If they're literally frozen together, like, so. Yep.
How and why? Like, was it more of, like, he knew that the bombs were dropping, and in order to save his daughter, he had to let her. But they're in California. The bombs drop, so how the do they get to Vegas? Right.
Unless there was, like, a vertibird or something that they took when he got Janie to Barb. And, like, I could see a situation where he gets Janie to Barb and, like, is telling her to get her into a safe place, and then Barb, like, tranqs his ass and just leaves him for dead or something. I was gonna say, okay, do you think Barb rejects Cooper coming, or do you think that Cooper opts not to go? I don't know, because I could see her tranking him and just taking Janie, but I could also see him opting out. I think it.
I think I'll know more with how this conversation that they have goes. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I'm like, I think that Barb genuinely cares about Cooper, but I think that she thinks what she's doing is the right thing for her family. And if Cooper doesn't want to be part of that, she can cut ties with him, and that's okay with her.
Yeah, and I'm trying to see, like, okay, let's say Cooper gets Janie to Barb, and let's say that Barb offers him. Are you sure you don't want to come with us? I'm trying to understand why Cooper would say no to that. Not necessarily for Barb, but just for Janie's sake. You get what I'm saying?
I can't see her. Him choosing to leave her. Unless it's like, we only have a spot for Janie. You don't have one. And maybe he doesn't have one because of the divorce.
Maybe only Janie and Barb do. I don't know. So I'm very curious to see how it all plays out. Hopefully. Hopefully.
Next episode isn't just Max, and I love Max, but it's like, you can't make me wait two weeks for some kind of resolution here. Like, right. There's a lot to wrap up. Yeah.
Okay. So, I mean, I think again, Chelsea, what's your opinion in terms of this episode in the full context? Just like, for a shipper, like, are you feeling good right now? I mean, obviously we're not supposed to feel good, but, like, what. How do you feel as a shipper?
As a shipper, I'm like, I'm a little bit broken right now, but I'm have. Trying to have faith that they're going to fix it and not me. Over as a shipper. Yeah. I think that it's a good thing.
I think that we rec. Even though we hate it, we recognize it as the black moment, The. Basically the breakup. Right.
Especially if we don't get current day Cooper. How like ghoul Cooper Howard in the next episode. I. I wasn't able to watch the trailer for the next episode, but if it's only Max. Because if you look at it from just a structural point of view, this happened at the end of episode five, which would be like plot twist number three or whatever. But it's right before the black moment.
If we don't get Lucy and Cooper in episode six, then that is their black moment, essentially, and it lines up perfectly with a romantic thing. And even if we do get a little bit of Lucy and Cooper in the next episode, it's still like, that is their black moment, and they kind of have to react to it. So it's not like their climax yet. It's still part of their black moment. They need that reaction and that sort of thing.
Especially with the song. You always hurt the one you love. They could have picked any other song that could have been just as angsty and not as romantic. Like. And it essentially says the last line before it just goes to the score with the credits.
It essentially says, like, if I hurt you, it's because I love you most of all. And like, again, I'm not saying they have to be canon romantic, but you cannot look me in the face and tell me they don't have feelings for each other. Because I think. I think friend is the wrong word. And I think even Lucy uses it, I think, to soften the blow a little bit.
Because you don't feel the way that Lucy felt it with someone. You don't care. You almost expect it. And that's. She was at the Beginning of the season.
Like she, it's not that she necessarily expected the ghoul to hurt her, but she expected him to be him like himself. You know, I don't know. I think that it's all good, but the fix it is going to tell me if my faith in the writers was justified because it could completely this up. I know. And I'm scared.
Like I'm afraid and like they haven't given me reason to be afraid. But like, you know, we've been through so many ships and so many other shows where we just got completely looking at you spuffy. But I don't know, I, I just really hope they don't it up and I'm terrified that they're going to. What would be the perfect way for them to have Cooper fix it? Like, like, what do you.
Like, like, let me get your take on. What does Cooper have to do to fix it in your eyes? And, and how if you're Lucy, what does Cooper have to do to get you to trust for her to trust him again? Right.
I don't know. Like as, as a writer, I don't know how I would go about this if I was in the writer's room. Yeah. Because this is a big, big betrayal to try to have to fix. Yeah.
It's almost, it's almost worse than what Lucy does to Cooper. I think it is. It is worse. It's an escalation on what Lucy did to Cooper when she left him. Well, she never, she never.
She was always honest to an annoyance. Like we were frustrated with her, but it followed her logical. Her golden rule. Her. I'm going to save these people.
I don't need to save you. You are a ghoul. You're going to heal. You're going to be just fine. And I'm coming back for you.
I am coming back. And I feel like she has always been honest about that. She was never kind of underhanded or, you know, whatever. And she let him know, I'm coming back for you. Or I did.
I gave her the stim pack because like technically you could argue that is a betrayal. But she explained immediately. Like, and yeah, maybe Cooper did too, but Lucy did not know she was going to be handed over to her father. She wasn't. That is, that is the betrayal to her, I think.
Whereas Lucy has like. And you know, she got herself into some stupid. And she was very humble afterwards. Like she thanked him and she listened to him. She went to him for questions.
She, she started like, like she said, like she started Getting along with him. And so I just.
I just think that this is like five. I think he needs to be like, it is five times worse. And I think he needs to find some way to track her. I think he needs to find a way into that incredibly secure vault. I don't care how the he does it.
And like, I think he needs to find a way to get her free and give her, like, the upper hand. And not. Not necessarily give her the upper hand, but put her in the position to be in the upper hand and to do what she needs to do to bring Hank to justice, whatever that means for her. And I think it's going to have to mean putting him down, but he's gonna have to, like, for me, if he doesn't get in that vault and find a way to help her and also get his family, I'm gonna be really pissed. Okay, Chelsea, what about this?
What if he chooses to cross. Cross the death clause for her? Right? That would be directly to, like, maybe, because if you. Okay.
I think, okay, for me personally, he has to want to save Lucy or get her back. It can't just be. It can't just be that Max is going to get Lucy and forces Cooper to help him. Right? Cooper has to make the conscious choice that he did her dirty.
And he needs to. He needs to make it right. He needs to make it right. I think that if he does something he's scared of, like, like facing the death claws, facing the death clause, even to the point where if Cooper tells Max, go and get her, I'll cause a distraction and Max is ultimately the one who gets her, I'll be fine with that because Cooper is. Is essentially risking his life to save her.
I'd be. I would be fine. And if I'm Lucy, I think I would. I would still be hurt. We would still have to have a conversation.
But I would be like, I would be willing to forgive him at that point. You get what I'm saying? Like, if. If that man went through three death claws, you know, just for me to. To be saved or whatever.
So I think that, like, I would. I would love something like that. I would love.
What do you think? Okay, let's hypothetically say that we're right. Let's hypothetically say that something makes Cooper realize he up. What do you think that trigger could potentially be? If you're writing Cooper like.
Like he made the choice. Like, let's say he gets out off being impaled or whatever. Let's say, you know, whether it's Max who Helps him or not recover from that somehow. Yeah. And I think that the guilt needs to be eating at him from the moment he falls out that window and she says, I thought we were friends.
Yeah, the guilt needs to start eating at his ass.
I think it is. I think it is. But what do you think is that push that makes him be like, I have to get her back.
I don't know, like, maybe hearing something about Hank taking her back to this vault here in Vegas, as opposed to, like, where he said she was supposed to go and things of that nature. Like, maybe he assumes she's just going to be safe in her vault, and that's ultimately, like, why he's okay with it. But then he finds out that Hank's taking her to this one or something like that. Right? We still haven't seen Robert House in present time yet, right?
In whatever, like, robot form or whatever the. Right. So maybe it's something like, with him. I mean, I don't know. I'm trying to.
Because it. It. I wouldn't like it if Max finds Cooper at a bar getting up, drowning his guilt away. Because my thing is, like, what does Cooper get out of it? The assurance that his wife and daughter aren't out.
It's not like he's getting to his family. You know what I mean? Like, I don't. I don't understand what he got from this. Besides the continued.
Oh, yeah, we're not gonna remove her. I mean, granted, he. He maybe gets the knowledge that they're here, right? He gets to know that, and now he has to back up and punt. Maybe.
I don't. I don't. Like, I'm just like, okay. And I'm thinking of Max's storyline, and I'm like, okay, how do we get max from Area 51 to Las Vegas? Like, how does that happen, right?
Like, what is he. Like, is he going on foot? Is he stealing a vertibird? Like, what is the situation? How long is it going to take him to get to New Vegas if he heads in that direction?
Like, what makes him decide to head in that direction? There's a lot of questions that I have. So let's say Max gets to Vegas and he bumps into the ghoul, and he recognizes the ghoul, right? And he's like, where's Lucy and the ghoul? I don't know.
Either tells him to off, or he probably recognizes Max and thinks that Lucy and Max are together or. Oh, yeah.
And it's just like, I'm trying to think, like, okay, if Max finds out that Lucy is with her dad. I mean, does Max have to talk sense into Cooper? I wouldn't like that. I don't think. I don't.
I hope not. I hope that's not the situation. I would not like that at all.
I don't know. And I wouldn't like it if Cooper is using Max to get in to the vault so he can get his wife and daughter and as a byproduct, get Lucy, like, in order to. And it's not just me talking as a shipper. It's just like, in general, I need him to be very conscious about his choice to get Lucy. If he finds out where his wife and daughter are, fine.
That's the cherry on top. Lucy is not the cherry. Lucy's the damn ice cream. Like, that needs to be his entire point, or else I'm. I'm.
I'm not gonna believe that he cared about her that as much as I think he cares about her based on episode five. And I don't know how all of that happens. And that's the thing. Like, even as a writer, I understand the plot points that they're supposed to hit, and I'm very curious to see how the writers for this show get us to that point, to those plot points. Yeah.
Yeah. All right. I think we talked about the marriage. Do you think. Okay.
Do you think Barb and Cooper like each other after their divorce? No, I don't think so. I think they might try to have an amicable little divorce for Janie's sake, but I don't. I don't think they like each other. And I don't think he can respect her anymore after everything he's found out.
I think depending on, again, their conversation in the next episode, I would agree with that. I'm trying to. Again, I'm trying to be, like, devil's advocate here and be like. But after finding everything out about. I. I mean, I guarantee you they probably haven't since he found.
He heard her saying, we're gonna drop the bombs. Right. I don't think he can look at her the same way. And so the people who are trying to like. And again, I'm not on anyone's ship.
You do whatever you want, but I'm trying to understand from the logical perspective how it's supposed to happen where Cooper falls back in love with his wife or whatever. I don't know. Right. What are your thoughts? I just, like, I don't see that being a thing.
And if they do make that a thing, I think it's shitty storytelling. Yes, I completely agree.
Okay. Any final thoughts for you, Chelsea?
All I know is he better fix it and he better fix it quick, because I'm pissed right now. How do you want him to grovel? I'm just curious. Like, what would be. Because my thing with I. I do like that men grovel, but I also think it hits their masculinity sometimes.
So what do you think would be in, like, a way where Cooper could grovel to Lucy and he. It wouldn't make you think, oh, my gosh, you're being so cringy right now. Like, what's a genuine way for someone like him to grovel? I think an express, explicit apology. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry I didn't choose you. I'm sorry for handing you over to your father. Like, I apologize. Not trying to rationalize his decision making. Just, I up and I'm sorry.
Yeah, maybe. Would. Would you think that him telling her who he is, do you think that that's a grovel, or do you think that that's a manipulation? I could see it being a grovel. Like, I don't.
Like, my name is Cooper. Maybe not saying I'm Cooper Howard, but, like, giving her his. His real name or. Or his first name or something like that. Right.
Because I don't think anyone really knows it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I would love it if he would tell her, like, who he actually is. Yeah.
Like, I think that would be pretty fantastic. Yeah. And, like, I mean, at some point, she's gonna have to figure it out. Yeah, I agree. Doesn't tell her because Barb Howard, like, if she sees that name and does any amount of digging at all, if she's, like, not under Hank's supervision 24 7.
Yeah. And that was gonna figure out who Barb Howard's husband was. I could see. Yeah. Anyway.
Okay. There's just too many questions right now. There are too many questions, and it's going to be a long week for us till we get to episode six. All right, Chelsea, any final thoughts? Nope.
I'm. I just. I'm ready for next week. I need the episode immediately. If anybody could drop it early, that would be amazing.
Like. Or. I mean, just drop the last three. Like. Yeah, just.
Why? Can we have them all at once, please? Yeah. Like what? Why not?
It's. Anyway, what is the question you want to ask them in the comments? How do you think that Cooper fixes this? Or do you think he fixes it at all? Oh, that's such a good one.
And if you have any questions for us or any theories that you want to discuss, feel free to leave them in the comments. It was really great hanging out with everyone today. I will talk to you guys later. Bye. Bye.
