Hi, guys, and welcome back to. I Will Go Down With This Ship. My name is Heather, and I'm Chelsea. And we are going to get in to episode two. I think it's the golden rule, right?
That's what it's called. I think it is. Yeah. If that doesn't make my little shipper heart just get so excited, I don't know what will, to be honest now. Okay, so we.
We. Without getting into super spoilers yet, because we're gonna dive into the episode. Chelsea, episode two. Overall. Thoughts, feelings?
How did you feel about this episode? I came out of episode two, like, yelling at the tv, but also much happier than I was at the end of episode one. 100%. I feel the same exact way. And we will clearly go into why we were both upset and frustrated, and we're.
I'm actually excited to talk to you about this because it's going to be really interesting to dissect Lucy's character development when we get to that specific part of it, like taking the shipper glasses off and just looking at it from a writer perspective. So let's jump into it. I want to just say really quick, the opening song, you Belong to Me by Jo Stafford. So I know this song from Patsy Cline, and this is, like, me and my grandfather's, like, special song. So hearing it was just.
I loved. I loved the little callback, but oh, my gosh, like, we get some backstory on Max, and I'm, like, over here crying five minutes into the episode, like, oh, my gosh. Chelsea, what are your thoughts about this opening scene? This changes my theory about his villain arc entirely. And also, I want to give him a hug.
Yeah. Just, like, wrap him in a soft blanket and take care of him. Absolutely. And it's just. I loved.
It's crazy. It's. It's amazing. And this is, like, for me, like, the writers, like, this is the talent. And granted, they get a lot more than we as novelists do because they get to show it, essentially.
But this five minutes of just world building, and you see the community really, like, working together and wanting to protect each other and help each other be better. I'm just like, I want to live in. I want to live in Shady Sands. Like, I want to with all of these people. Like, it made me love that community so much, and it made me so much more upset with Hank on behalf of that community and, like, everyone that was affected and.
And we. And I don't know. I, like, I love my Hank. Like, I love Kyle McLaughlin in that. Like, I love so much.
But, yeah, 100. And it's. It's crazy because you don't even have to see Hank to really hate him after just five minutes with this. With this community. And it's sort of like you and I think as authors, like, we're watching it, and we already know what they're doing, right?
They're, like, setting everything up. You see, you know, the dad and the mom, they're kind of. They're getting where they want to go. They're almost there to reach their goal. They're so close.
And we're building up to fail. We already know this, and yet we're still pulled into it. We're still feeling emotional about it, and it's. It's just like. It's really hard because even though we already know the story, it's.
You kind of are watching, and you're like, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this doesn't happen the way that we think it's going to happen. You know what I mean? Right? Like, that's the hope.
And then your hopes get crushed mercilessly, 100%. And it actually makes me understand Max a lot more and why he gravitates to the Brotherhood, and it. It helps me understand him a lot more. Like, even though I think that me and you did a pretty good job of dissecting who he was in episode, like, in the first season, I feel like this really helps empathize with him a little bit more. And then on top of that, understand why he's so loyal to the Brotherhood because of everything that happens in this specific scene.
So we. We. We kind of. What happens, basically, is that, you know, we have this sort of like a traveling guy or something, and, you know, like, I guess they need to call the Doctor because he just keeps repeating this phrase, something like patrolling the Mojave makes. Almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter.
And he says this over and over and over again. And I think the. If I remember correctly, because I know we've kind of been on a winter break, but, like, the. The Doctor is his dad, right? Am I remembering that?
Is that. I think that's the vibe I'm getting from that, anyway. Yeah. And so, Chelsea, why don't you explain, like, so we see this. This guy, and we see the dad kind of go and explore what happens next.
Our. Our traveling merchant. Yeah. Is, as it turns out, is under mind control. And, you know, once they've unloaded most of the stuff off the cart, there's still something big under a tarp there.
And Then once our traveling merchant, like, dies, and they roll him over and see that, oh, he's got this device on the back of his neck and he's been under mind control. That's what's up. And they pull the tarp off, and there's a nuke in the cart. Yep. And.
But. But the crazy part is, is that Max's dad is like. He sends everyone away, including his son, but he's like, okay. He almost knows exactly what he's doing. And so it's like, there's a little bit of panic, but there's also confidence in what he's.
Pulls out the wires and he, like, clips the right one, and he's like, okay, I've got this, you know? But then he actually doesn't have this. Like, it's actually the opposite. Yeah, it's booby trapped. Because of course it was.
Of course it was. And so he runs into, you know, his house, and him and his wife basically put Max into a fridge. And. And it's just this. It's like the saddest moment.
And I think, you know, as a kid, like, in my kid, I mean, like, in my 20s, like in my early 20s, before I had kids, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, whatever. But I think once you have a kid or once you have someone to lose it, those moments just hit you so much harder because you're automatically forced to be like, what would I do in this particular situation? What would I do with my baby in this situation? And it's like, it's so gut wrenching. I literally, like, I had.
I was crying. Yeah, Yeah, I was. I was literally sobbing. Even though, again, from a logistical writing point of view, I knew exactly what they were doing to me. I knew the setup.
Like, me and you have done this in our books, but it's like, it still gets me because they know exactly what, you know, you're doing, and they're trying to reassure him. You know, they're saying, you're a good boy and you're going to be a good man. And I love. I love this line of, like, it could be tough out there, but as long as we leave it a little bit better than we found it, we did. Okay.
And like, that. There's a callback to that in the next episode, too. Oh, honey, let's. Let's not get ahead of ourselves with the next episode. But, yes.
No, but I loved that moment. I was like, aha, yes, 100%. And so I just. I'm, like, bawling because it's like, he. He has so much faith in his son and that he's.
It's almost like he's. Oh. Like, he doesn't want to leave his kid. He doesn't want to leave the fact that he is so close to achieving what he wants to achieve. But you know what?
It's like he looks at his life and he's like, I did the best that I could. I made life a little bit better. You know? And that, like, that gets me. Like, that is important.
Like, especially as a parent. Especially just, like, as we get older, what kind of legacy are we leaving? You know? And I just found that super inspiring and emotional. And, you know, he.
He. He gets in the. In the fridge, and just. Even when the wife saw, like, we were just getting started, like, that gut, like, that was so real. Like, I told me.
Yeah. Because I'm like, okay, the dad's being strong. He has to be strong for the family. And the wife is trying to. But it's like, gosh, she's like, we.
Why is this happening? And it's like, no, that was real. Like, I'd probably do the same thing. You know, I felt that in my soul. Yes, absolutely.
But this is, like, this is the genius of the writers, because we see the explosion go off, and then it flashes over to Hank and, like, young Lucy. Right. And Hank's washing his hands. Yes. And it was just.
And it's like Lucy's all like, hey, dad, you know, like, come read to me. And he's like, okie dokie. Like, and it's just a reminder that. And this is where I'm like, no, like, Hank is Cersei, because his one redeeming quality is he. He loves Lucy, loves his family.
There is no doubt in my mind that he loves Lucy. And so for whatever sick and twisted way he did this, he did specifically for his kids, probably to save them from, you know, Shady Sands and Rose essentially escaping with the kids. But it was just, like. It was just like. I don't know, like, it was such a contrast because you see both dads being present for their kids and reassuring their kids, and just.
They both think that what they did was the right thing. And even though we, in hindsight know that Hank's a piece of garbage, it's like, I cannot deny that he loves Lucy. And he. He, like, going to go and read her a book, and he is not emoting that. Oh, yeah, he just dropped a bomb on this town, like, right?
And. And Kyle McLaughlin plays it so good. Like, so good that it's Just. Oh, my gosh, the contrast was so stark, and it just guts you. You know what I mean?
It was absolutely beautiful. And it's very much a moment of, like, you can see yourself in it as a parent, because I can't speak for all parents, but for most of us as parents, we are literally just every single day trying to do the best we can with what we have. Yep. Trying to make the best possible life that we can for our children with what we have. And we might not do everything right.
We might screw up a whole hell of a lot. Yep. But we are trying essentially, to make a better life and a better world for our kids than whatever we were handed and whatever we went through growing up. Absolutely. Absolutely.
So after that scene, we kind of flash, and now we get Maximus in the present. And I noticed while watching this, like, because when we were talking about Max in season one, we kind of thought, okay, he's gonna get this villain arc because he wants that belonging. He wants that found family. He wants to do whatever the Brotherhood says in order to kind of find a place for him in this world. But when we open up with him, it's almost like he's doing all.
He's, like, hitting the right buttons, but he's clearly, there's a disconnect. He is not happy. So if you want to. Do you want to get into more about that? Like, about our first scene with Max, it's so wild to me.
Like, everything's muddled because I've been so sick, and I've watched episode two and episode three back to back, so I'm trying to, like, separate everything in my head, and it's not working for me today. But, like, he's. He's cleaning his power armor. Right? Or is that the next episode?
I think so. I think it's basically, they're cheering for him, and he just. I think he's talking to the guy. Like, whatever that guy is. Like, they're like, all hail Night Maximus.
We have troops. Cheering. And they got the power. I think they're getting the power. Like, yeah, they're getting that box.
Yeah. And they talk about Abomina. Abominations. Nothing they couldn't handle. And this is also a good kind of foreshadowing into episode three.
But Abominations, from what I understand, is anything that. Like, it's not regular human. It could be a ghoul. It could be, like, mutants. Yeah, exactly.
But just that they. They are not technically human anymore, or they're not full human, that sort of thing. And that, to the brotherhood, is a complete stain on humanity because only sort of humans are accepted in within the brotherhood's view of this world, from what I'm understanding. But Max is curious, like, okay, what is this? Like, what essentially did I risk myself for?
And his. Oh, gosh, I don't even know the guy's name. It's like his boss guy. The Right. I don't know his name either.
The leader. But he's essentially saying, this is the key. And he goes into a little bit of world building with the brotherhood that the brotherhood has become scattered, and there's apparently dozens of rival chapters. So it's not just this uniformed, you know, group. It's like, no, there's a bunch of different types.
But now that they have this sort of box, this is what they are thinking is going to unify all of them under one banner. And Max's boss basically wants to rule over the entire brotherhood. He wants to unite them, and he wants to make sure that he is essentially the leader, or at least, yeah, their brotherhood is the one in charge. And what's really interesting is that we get. He calls Max my son.
And I think that he does that on purpose. I think he knows Max is looking for a father figure. I think he's looking for someone to respect and just kind of obey. And I think he's completely taking advantage of Max because he needs Max, because everyone thinks that Max killed Moldaver. Right, Right.
And so he's kind of this hero now. And it's like, even though I think that they have their issues, the boss guy is like, I need to use this to my advantage. So I'm going, if I can control Max and have him do whatever I want, then this is going to work out for me and I'm going to get what I want to get. Yeah. It's an absolute manipulation tactic, for sure.
Yeah. And I just thought, like, that opening, like, with the flashback scene and even Max to the present. I was like, okay, this is how you introduce Max? Like, obviously, we didn't get any Max in episode one. But I was like, okay, now I'm curious.
You. I'm invested in Max's story. I'm curious to see how this plays out. So that was really fun. But now we switch over to the ghoul, and Lucy and I. I love this moment between the two of them.
He's all like. The ghoul's like water. And she's like, were you always this rude? Like, I'm guessing not. And then she goes in to talk about his family.
Like, your family's gonna be out there. Anything's possible. But do you really think that they're going to appreciate the kind of person that you have turned into? Like, you want them to like you, don't you? And I just think that that's the funniest thing, because I'm, like, wondering, like, what is going through, like, the audacity, first of all.
Like, I'm just like, lucy, like, you don't even know this man's family. You don't know what he's had to suffer. Like, But I like it. I love her for this, because she's also not wrong. She's like, dude, you're going to find your family, and you're a dick.
Like, let's change attitude. You know what I mean? Like, it's so funny to me. Like, my. My entire.
Like, my repetitive tagline that I was saying for this entire episode was, girl. Yeah.
And I love it. She's like, charles Dickens actually wrote a whole book about it, if you're interested. And he's like, nope. But then he. Like, she keeps going, like, she does not give a shit.
Because then we flash over, and she's like. And by the third ghost, he was pret much cured. But the best part is he's actually listening to her. Like, he's t. Like, he's, like, humoring her. He's like, like, like, you know what I mean?
Like, he could tell her to shut the up, and he doesn't. I think he secretly likes when she talks. Like, honestly, I think he's been so lonely for so long that he will tolerate the yammering no matter what. Oh, yeah. And.
And I just think part of him. Because if. If I were Cooper, this would be me. It's like, what the else is she gonna say? Like, what's gonna come out of this mouth?
Because, like, I'm curious, and I'm also, like, disgusted, but I'm also, like, intrigued and, like, all of these emotions. So I feel like that is what's happening right now in Cooper's head. Like, you know? Yeah, but then we get the help, you know, we get the shout. And we already know.
We already know what Lucy is going to do. Yes. Because somebody hasn't learned her lessons yet in the wasteland, apparently. No. And then the ghoul is like, empathy's like mud.
You lose your boots and that stuff. Like, classic Cooper line. And. And then Lucy's like, well, I'm not just gonna let someone die while I listen to them scream. And then Cooper doesn't give a.
He's like, folks have been screaming for 200 years. And then. But then Lucy comes back like, I'm just like, a ping pong match. Like, I'm like, who's gonna top who? And she's like, did it ever occur to you that if you helped them, they would stop?
And I'm like, whoa. I was like, damn, girl, you got him. But then he turns it around, and he's like, you want to know what I was like before the war? I was just like, you stupid. And then Goggins is like, delivery on that line.
Like, the timing perfect. Like, just perfect, you know, Just keeps getting better and better in literally everything he does. Honestly, I adore that man so much. It's freaking incredible. But I really liked this line because it's another sort of it.
It. And it's coming from him. Like, I was just like you. And it's sort of like forcing not only her to realize that, you know, he was someone before being a ghoul, but also himself. Like, I was just like you.
And part of it, I think he's saying it to be like, I don't want to be like you anymore. I can't. That's not how I survive. You're stupid. But then he's already groaning because he already knows that Lucy's gonna go in, and he already knows he's gonna follow her, like.
Yep. That it's just because he can't just, like, let her wander off by herself, which is the cutest thing ever. But it's such a mirror moment of, like, I was you. And it's a callback to season one. Oh, I'm you, sweetie.
Just give it a little time. Oh, yeah. And then all lines up so beautifully. And I would just, like. I would love to get a look at the storyboards of, like, season one and season two, like, laid out with each other and just see, like, all of these beautiful callback moments that they've made sure to do that I absolutely love.
Like, this is incredible setups and payoffs across seasons 100 and then. And this is why I think it's really important because, like, I have the script pulled up, but that we have to get granular with the dialogue because, like you mentioned, we already have a call. Like, technically not in episode two, but once we talk episode three, we already have a callback to specific dialogue. And, like, even now, the ghoul's like, well, this is a waste of time. And Lucy says doing the right thing is never a waste of time.
And I. I'm pretty sure that, you know, Cooper doesn't ever say this in one of the flashbacks, but you can tell when he's struggling with whether to help Moldaver or not. Like, kind of spy on Barb. Like, you know that that's what he's thinking, too. Like, doing the right thing is never a waste of time. And so Charlie say something similar to that.
At some point. I wouldn't be surprised. Hallucinate. Like, I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know.
And it's almost, like, frustrating. It's like, I want to go back and watch all of season one, but that. It's like little things like that kind of fall through the cracks. But it's like, you also know enough about the characters to know we know that Cooper wants to do the right thing, and that's why he struggles so much internally with helping Moldaver. And, gosh, episode three is going to be so much fun to discuss because I.
That was so good. Like. Like, I don't know how this show just keeps outdoing itself. I'm not gonna lie. I'm, like, waiting.
I'm waiting for them to up something really bad. Like, and I know that's so bad, but it's just like, this is too good. Like, this is. Is this really happening? Like, this is too good.
It is scary. You're like, you know, when. When are they going to eventually drop the ball? And I hope that they don't. But we know that it happens in really good shows.
Hello, Game of Thrones. Like, oh, Tony. Yeah. So they go in, and we get a little bit more world building. So we, you know, this girl says, we need medicine.
And Lucy's like, well, what? What happened? And the ghoul immediately says, tunics, you're awful far west, ain't you? And so the ghoul clearly knows, and. And we're gonna really dive into Lucy's motivations and choices in character.
But let's go through just really quick what the scene is. And Lucy basically says, ignore him. I've got one stim pack left the wound. The woman's like, okay. And the ghoul's like, what the are you talking about?
Like, this is not good. Resources, like resource management. Yes. They don't deserve to save. Like, they don't deserve to be saved.
So part of it is like, I know that the writers don't want to give everything away, but at the same time, Lucy doesn't know shit. So if the ghoul really wanted her to not utilize that resource for this woman, he should have just been like, okay, bro, listen, these are awful people. Here's why. But I. I think part of it, too, and I'm curious your take on it. Is he testing her?
Like, does he want her to just trust what he's saying, or is this more of, like, the writers are kind of hinting at it because they don't. It's more of a plot device than an actual, like, dialogue. Like, what do you think here? Chelsea, the shipper in me, wants it to be him testing how much she trusts him, and is she gonna listen to him without him having to lay out all the facts for her? And I think part of it is still him being a bit of a petty and being like, look, fine, learn your lessons the hard way.
Don't listen to me. Like, that's a good point. I didn't consider that one, but I could see Cooper being a petty like that. Yes.
And that's like, my instinct is it is either him hoping that she is going to trust him and not question every little thing, though, does he know her at all? If that is the situation. Right. Without him having to explain why these people in their tunics are bad people and you shouldn't waste resources on them. And, you know, like, the other part of me is like, no, it's totally just a.
Like, just watch and see what happens and how badly her little. Her warped worldview, her sheltered little worldview up for her because she's not listening and, like, let her learn that lesson the hard way. Well, and on top of that, what's interesting is he, when he says, hey, this is going to not be good for the resources. Folks in them outfits don't deserve saving. She doesn't stop and ask him why.
It's almost like she, like, completely dismisses what he tells her before. Like, he. Without even stopping and considering it. And the thing is, like, part of me is like, okay, Cooper's just a dick. Like, and I think she knows that.
I think she's been traveling with him for just shy of two weeks, and she gets that. I mean, what's very interesting, if we could go back to when we first meet Cooper and Lucy in this episode. You know, like, if you see he's asking her for water, yes, he's being a dick about it. But if we go back to season one, he literally dropped the last bits of water on the ground before he let her, you know, have some. And yet in this episode, she's basically in charge of the water.
He's essentially trusting her with the water. To give him water when he demands, asks, whatever you want to call it. So I just find it really interesting that she's not even. He's her guide, essentially. And to be fair, a lot of what Cooper says has been right.
And so my thing is, like, okay, you don't have to think that he's Mr. Rogers. You don't have to think that he's this nice guy. But if he's saying, essentially, people who dress like that don't deserve saving, why not just ask why? Like, even if you push back and say, well, everyone deserves saving, it doesn't matter, you know, what they look like or what they're wearing. I'm just like, she completely ignores what comes out of his mouth and focuses more on the saving them.
And, yeah, I get it. You know, they need that help. But I just wish I would have seen a little bit more like, yeah, like a dialogue. Like, let me. Even if it's to argue her point of everyone needs saving.
I. I don't like the dismissiveness that's. But I don't really like. Right. And, like, is she just not listening to him because she thinks he's a grumpy, or is it a plot device? Because they needed this thing to happen and she needed to end up where she ends up.
Exactly. And I think that that's why, again, I would have loved to see the development of this sort of road trip, buddy cop relationship to really understand, because. And to be honest, like, maybe the writers specifically didn't show us that, because if they did show a development, then this scene right here wouldn't actually make a lot of sense because, I mean, two weeks on the road with Cooper Howard, I just feel like they would have been past this point of, you know, I don't know. Like, I feel like it's more on Cooper's end. Like, Cooper already knows Lucy's gonna run in and try to save people.
And so he doesn't even really. Like, he tries to argue a little bit, but he's running after her like, he already knows what's going to happen. It's very exasperated on his part. But I just feel like Lucy isn't giving Cooper. I'm not saying she needs to give him the benefit of the doubt, but there has to be some kind of trust between them.
Like, I just feel like even. Even the opening scene from episode one, like, he is com. He completely trusts her. Like, if he's trusting her to shoot the rope where it's already on her neck, he's showing a lot of faith. In her.
And I'm not saying again, she doesn't have to necessarily agree with his beliefs. She can argue with his beliefs, but why not give him a little bit of the benefit of the doubt? And this isn't me trying to be, like, shipper or even, oh, I'm. I'm thirsty for Cooper Howard. It's more of, like, I'm trying to understand her motivations as of, you know, everything that Cooper says is gonna happen, at least from what we've seen in.
In episodes one and two as of right now, typically, like, turns out to be true. Yes. Why did. Yeah, right. So why is she not at least having a dialogue with him about, you know, why not to, you know, like, save him?
And so, like, I just. It. What's interesting. So then, you know, obviously, we see that there's two people, like, another person there, and the ghoul's like, nope, not you, dude. Like, I'm gonna.
What's so interesting, though, is he doesn't kill the woman, and is he letting Lucy save her? Like, why? Like, if he really just wanted to shut Lucy up, he could have. He's Cooper Howard. Like, he could just push her to the side and kill both of them.
You know, like, what's. What are your thoughts on that? Like, Chelsea, like, why doesn't he kill the woman? Like, is it again to teach Lucy that lesson, or what do you think? I really do think it's.
I'm gonna let you learn this the hard way because hardball lessons teach better. Yeah. Trying to tell you something, obviously, because you're not listening to me when I'm speaking. You're not giving me the benefit of my experience. Experience on top of not giving me the benefit of the doubt.
And, you know, like, I've been up here for 200 years navigating all of this. You would think you could listen to me, but if you don't want to listen to me, I'm gonna let you learn the hard way. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that this might sound so up, but I think that him giving her the autonomy to make these choices is actually.
I like that. Even if I don't agree with Lucy, he's not coming in and mansplaining anything to her, or I'm in charge because I have the experience. I think he genuinely wants her to. I think deep down, and this is just me maybe being a shipper, I think part of him genuinely wants her to trust him. Like, I think that wants her to just listen to what he has to say, not only because it Would make his life so much easier.
But I think that he genuinely cares to a degree about what she. Not necessarily thinks of him. I don't know if I'm explaining. Do you get what I'm trying to say? Like, yeah, yeah.
What she thinks of his experience. Experience. His knowledge. Yes. Everything that he has to offer here, which is quite a lot.
And she's just discounting. Because of her morals. Yes, because their morals are mismatched. But the best part of this scene is when he tries to eat the dude. He's, like, pulling off the skin and he starts gagging.
And I'm like, what is going on, Cooper? Oh, my gosh. Great. That was so funny. I knew it was about to be some.
Oh. Started gagging. I was like, oh, Lord, here we go. So we see a rad scorpion screeching. And this.
This, like, I'm mad at Lucy during this part, but I'm also laughing my ass off. So, like, Cooper is just, like, fighting with this, like, rad scorpion. And. And she's, like, completely ignoring him. She's like, you, Cooper, I'm gonna save this lady.
Like, you're being so dramatic. Like, he's literally, like, trying to, like, get this thing off of him. And she's like, oh, gosh, he's. It was just the funniest thing. And I'm like.
I'm like, dude, Lucy, why aren't you helping him? Like, and I know part of it, again, she knows that he's going to survive. And I think this is her way of teaching him a lesson. Like, stopping a dick. Like.
Like, people. So I love the, like, petty married couple, passive aggressive energy. Yes. In this. From, like, from both directions.
And it's just like, when I do some dumb. And Lake's like, let you learn the hard way. Sorry, babe. What did we learn? Yeah, no, that's.
That's my husband, too. Like, he'll be like, wait, wait. So you were wrong. You were wrong.
Okay. I'm glad my husband's not the only one. No, he. He. I.
And you know what? As much as it hurts my pride, if our positions were reversed, I would want the same. Okay. Heather was white. Right.
The wife was right. So I give it to him. I'm like, okay, you're right. I was wrong. I. I will give you that validation.
I will give it begrudgingly, but I will give you that validation. So. Cooper. Ah, get the off me. It's just, I'm dying during this part.
Like, he's like. He's screaming. The woman is screaming. And. And like, the.
Lucy's more concerned about the woman than Cooper. And like, okay, I'm just yelling at the screen, like, have you learned nothing since you've been up here? Nothing is what it seems. On the surface, nothing matches the morality that you were taught. Like, come on.
The thing is, I like that she really desperately wants to keep her morality, because I think if she can cling on to her morality, it means that the way that Hank raised her wasn't a complete lie. And, like, she gets to embody that regardless of how shitty her dad is. And I. I get that it's such an integral part of her identity right now, because if she loses that, then who the is she? And I think that scares her more than anything. My issue, the thing that really gets me though, is during this part, like, I think, you know, Cooper gets the rad scorpion off of him and he wants the stim pack.
And she says, I only have one. And he's stuttering. He's like, give it to me. And I. I love that she hesitates. Like, I do love that she hesitates.
But, like.
And then, you know, like. And then she basically says she's. She's going to die without it. You're not going to. And she essentially gives it to the woman.
And again, I get the logistics behind it because she would die and Lucy wants to save her life, but I do not like that she chose that stranger over Cooper. Over Cooper. Huh? And I'm hoping that this is a setup and that we will get a similar scene in episode six or seven and she will have learned her lesson and pick Cooper. I'm hoping that this is what this is, that this is a setup, because we do see her hesitation.
If Lucy did not completely did not care about Cooper, she wouldn't have hesitated. She would have given the Stimpak straight to the lady right away. But it's almost like she had to stop and rationalize it to herself. Like, she's going to die. You're not going to die.
And I love this part because she's like, okay, we'll get you home to your people, okay? And then that's Cooper golden rule. And he starts laughing. He starts laughing and grunting. And it's like Lucy says, that rule is for people.
You're disgusting, cruel. I'm nothing like you. But that's hilarious because she used that rule in season one and so was hysterically funny. Well, I loved that because it showed that she did see him as a person, that that rule does apply to him, even though he was A monster to her. He.
He basically sold her for parts. But again, it's like she's so mad at him right now in this moment, and she's saying, I am nothing like you there. Well, and she's further dehumanizing him in her own mind right now in this moment, because she's so pissed. Yeah. And.
And. And that's the thing where a little bit of the characterization, in my opinion, is flawed because I just. I get, like, again, it's that she's doing this because she's so mad at him. But. But part of me is like, why are you mad at him?
Like, okay, yes, he completely wants to kill. Like, he killed that guy, and then he's ready to kill this girl. And I get that. And you don't want to do that because you see the value in human life. Like, you're not stopping to ask who you work for, who, what you believe, any of that.
Like. Like, Lucy sees human life as worth living, but that should also apply to Cooper Howard, whether she wants to admit it or not. And it did in season one. And that's where I have the issue of, like, okay, look, like, even. Even the lesson that she learned in season one, that she learned directly from Cooper, is sometimes killing's a mercy killing.
Sometimes you have to pull the trigger, and that doesn't mean that you are killing or that it's bad. And she winds up doing that with her mom. And so it's like she learned that lesson. And now I feel like her characterization has come kind of regressed a little bit. Because you trusted Cooper in that moment to kill your mom because you realize that he was right about this.
You trust him enough to go after your dad because you know that your dad's a piece of. And if you don't do something about it, you feel responsible for it. And yet we have your setup of season two where she's regressed to. Back to when Cooper had a. A basically her lassoed up.
But that was understandable for her characterization back then. It's not acceptable to me, at least anymore, because they've already spent all this time together. Cooper has been right about everything that we've seen, and he's giving her the autonomy to choose a lot of the stuff like, okay, go see the tunic. Go do this. And she's still so mad at him that she doesn't give him.
And I don't know if her giving Cooper the stim Pack would be out of character either, because this is a human life, and Cooper can do it. But I just think that she's. Like you said, she's dehumanizing him in such a way that she has to. Because I feel like if she doesn't. If she actually sits with her choices, she would know that she was wrong.
And she cannot be wrong in this moment, at least not just that. I think. I think she's letting her emotions rule her a lot because she wishes he would behave differently than he's behaving. Which means she's emotionally invested in him. Yes.
And she's not being rational right now about him emotionally. Like, she is not being rational about him in any way right now. And who in the world drives us the most crazy? The people we love the most. Most.
People we care about the most. Yeah, the husband's thousand percent. A thousand. It's very married couple energy. And, like, what I'm doing right now is not logical at all.
But you. You made me mad. So this is where we're at right now. I. I just. I just love this, like, when she's like, okay, you know, she's getting the.
The woman up, and she's like. Which is why when I get her home, I'll come back for you, give you a little time to think about the consequences of your actions. And, like, to me, that's just like, a throwback to when they first meet in Gosh, what's that Town? When he's, like, killing everybody. And she's like, we don't need to be violent.
We can resolve this. Like, right, But I love. I love. Like, the woman doesn't give a. About.
About Cooper, but Lucy has to tell herself, like, I wouldn't worry about them. He's very durable. He'll be. He'll be fine. And it's like.
It's that she's already feeling guilty. She already knows that she made the mistake, but she. But it's like, we do this as wives. Like, we're already halfway into the fight. We're already arguing.
You ever see those memes on Instagram where it's all, like, when you're, like, three fourths into the fight and you start realizing that you're the bad one? Like, you. You up, but you're too far in that you can't back out now. Like, you have to go all the way in. And I feel like that was Lucy 100.
Like, she was like, okay, you know, maybe I could have handled this differently. But, you know, he's. He's. He has to be fine. Like, he's gonna be fine.
But now it's like, yeah, Like, I just. I'm like, okay, she's feeling guilty, which is good. Lucy, like, you should be feeling guilty. Right? And so, yeah.
So anyway, so that's the scene. Do you have any other points or anything that you want to talk about when it comes to Lucy and her character or her decisions or even the ghoul or anything like that? Like, do you think that what Lucy does makes the goal respect her more? Do you think that he's just kind of like, okay, she's gonna learn the lesson. I'm gonna have to come in and save her?
And, like, what are you thinking right now when it comes to that? I think he's. He's very exasperated. I think he's a little bit disappointed. Disappointed that she didn't choose him.
And we'll. We'll talk about why when we get to episode three. Or at least I think it's episode three. I don't know. Everything is running together because I'm just like.
I've been watching on a Loop 100. It's all, like, running together. But we will. We will talk about that because I think the thing I want to reference with that is in our next episode. But I. I very much think that he's just, like.
He's mainly exasperated. He's tired. He knows exactly how this situation is going to go because, like, he knows her inside and out. He knows her better than she knows herself. Yes.
And, like, he knows how this is going to play out. He knows he's going to have to get his shit together. He's going to have to bootstrap himself, and then he's going to have to go after her because our girl has fucked up. Yeah. Pretty bad.
Royally pretty bad. And I think. I think there's a little bit of disappointment and a little bit of hurt, but, like, he's going to go after her anyway because, like, he can't. It's. And I don't think it even has anything to do with finding his family right now at this point.
Like, yes, but that's secondary. It's like, he can't let her wander through this alone and get killed before they hunt her dad down. And, like, even this score. Let me ask you, because I was gonna save this question for the end, but we'll just jump into it now because I've seen so many different theories about. At the end of episode two, do you think Cooper goes after Lucy?
And this isn't a spoiler. We all know he's going to go after Lucy. Do you think that he has to do it because either to find Hank because he needs Lucy as a bargaining chip for Hank, or like, which will eventually lead him to his family. Do you think that it's because he wants to save her? He doesn't want anything bad to happen.
Do you think it's a mix of both? Like. Like, does Cooper Howard actually need to save Lucy? And if we completely take off the shipper glasses and we're looking at it from a structural point of view or even just like your own perspective, like, what do you think about that? I don't think he necessarily needs to save her.
I think that he wants to save her. I think he feels at least some kind of responsibility for this adorable, bumbling idiot. Yeah. With her shiny morals. And like, doesn't feel like.
Like he wouldn't be able to rest with his own conscience easily if he let something bad happen to her because he was trying to let her learn this lesson the hard way. And then, like, now he has to come around and follow up. Like, if he's going to let her learn the lesson the hard way, he's going to make sure that she survives to learn the lesson. See, that is a really good point. I did not even think about it.
It's almost like he is partially responsible because he knows her so well. I feel like he know. He knew exactly how it was going to play out. But I think to your point, I think that he didn't actually expect her to. To choose to give the stim pack to the girl.
Like, I. I think, like, it's that disappointment. Like, he almost expected that she's gonna learn her lesson and I'm gonna be right there to show her what an idiot she is. When we're surrounded by the legion after dropping this tunic. Back off. I don't think he realizes they're going to be separated.
Right. And I think that, like, it's a little bit panic inducing for him, like, being separated from her because all of these horrible things could happen to her before he gets himself straightened out and gets to go and, like, come to her rescue. Like the cowboy he is at heart. And I think too that I just. I just think that like you said, I think that it's.
That there's. That he's that cowboy at heart. That responsibility.
I just. I think that. I think he tells himself he needs her to fulfill his goals, but I think that deep down he's Cooper Howard. He could. He could track Hank.
He could. He could torture Hank and kill him. Would lose Lucy. Might actually be more of a hindrance right now to him than an actual help to him. Because, like, he's a bounty hunter.
He is the best bounty hunter in the wastes. I don't think he actually needs her to get what he wants. No, he does not need her at all. And the fact that he continues to stick with her and look out for her and save her from these idiotic situations she keeps putting herself in because she's applying her morals to a place where her morals do not belong. Yeah.
Like, it's a choice on his part. It is an active choice to continue to engage with her because he does not need her. He is so ridiculously capable that he could easily hunt down Hank, probably faster. Faster, without her tagging along, and he could easily, like, torture the information that he needs out of Hank. It wouldn't be hard.
It would be enjoyable for him because he didn't like Hank before the bombs dropped, like. But he's guiding Lucy on her journey. I don't want to say in a very mentory kind of way, because it doesn't feel mentor mentee to me. It doesn't feel father daughter to me either. But he is serving as a guide on her hero's journey, and she's got to, like, figure this out.
Yeah. But I think that's why he keeps giving her so much agency. Yeah. He wants to see her learn and start making the right choices. Well, and to your point about the mentor mentee, I don't think it's mentor mentee either, because the relationship is pretty equal, because she's also guiding him on his own hero's journey.
And so because you have the equal, like, it's. It's funny because they're both going on the hero's journey, but they're both a mentor to each other, too. And so it's sort of like you have this foi, like, this mirror between the two of them. And so that's why I don't think it's father, because there's no real power imbalance between them. I mean, yes, Cooper has the experience.
He has the age. He has, you know, the knowledge, the wisdom, whatever. But Lucy has knowledge of the vaults that he doesn't have. Lucy has the moral compass that he lost. And so, to me, that really brings them down on equal footing because they each need something from each other, and they kind of are this puzzle piece that fits together, and they can both learn from it.
And so I'm not gonna lie. Like, once Lucy was separated, I was like, oh, are they gonna be separated for, like, the rest of the season. Like, I was so worried, like, out, dude. I was stressing out. I'm so glad we saw, like, episode three.
Like, really calm me the down. But I was like, am I gonna, like, have to wait for the. Like, is he gonna spend a whole couple episodes gathering troops? Like, what's. What's gonna happen?
Like, I don't want them separated. Like, I need them to, like, stay together. Yeah. Yeah. So Lucy leaves the ghoul.
Poor ghoul. And now we get to see the vaultese. Our vaulties are coming out of hibernation, essentially. Not gonna lie. Like, they were hilarious.
They were so funny. I loved it. I love that Norm's like, basically, like, there's been a change of plans, you know, Then you have. I love. I don't even know these characters names, but I love Claudia and the dude.
Like, Claudia's like, should I be able to see now? And he's like, relax, Claudia. There's been a change of plans. Like, just that little banter. I'm dead.
Like, I'm dead. I'm like, you've got me again, Valtese. Like, why do you do this to me? I can't stop laughing. They're so cute.
Like, they're precious and adorable. And I'm so, so proud of Norm. And, like, I'm just. I'm loving the out of Norm this season. Like, can we just talk about how genius he is?
I feel like he's really stepped into his alpha energy. You know what I mean? Like, yes. And it's like, I feel really weird about being thirsty over Norm because, like, I watched this child grow up on the Disney Channel and like, stop it. I just think, luckily I did not watch him grow up.
So I can. I can definitely respect the alpha that's coming out of Norm. But I just like. Like, look at his character growth from this guy who, like, gave a about nobody, who basically had to be like, move from job to job because he didn't get along with anybody. And he's just making these decisions and owning these decisions, and I just.
I love it. And now he's basically like, well, what the do I do now? Like, these are essentially children, and I have to convince them that not only is it reclamation day, but that I'm in charge and that Bud is just, you know, he's dead, but we can't have them panic. And it's just. He handles his, you know what I mean?
Like, mad respect. Very sexy to me in a, like a deeply intellectual and kind of manipulative, but also hot sort of way. Yes, absolutely. Like, it's giving dark romance hero light. Yeah.
Like, it's like the nerdy brother. It's like the Sabrina Carpenter song. Like, when did you get hot? Like, what happened? Like, how.
So then we kind of jump over to Hank and Hank, dude, Kyle, you're amazing. I love you. Like, he grabs this mouse and he's just. Like, the mouse is squeaking and he's.
He's trying. He's trying. So slapstick and, like, hysterically funny, but tongue in cheek at the same time. And I'm like, damn. How do they achieve this kind of humor with what we have going on right here?
Like, hysterically funny. Yes. And I love him in the yo yo. Oh, my God. Like, I'm like, kyle, did you do that yourself or should I be paying it?
Like, is this an actual sort of motif in. In within the show? Like, does this represent anything or is this just Kyle McLaughlin being Kyle McLaughlin? Like, I need to know. Like, right, this mean.
Like, because I could see Kyle just being like, hey, I found this yo yo. Like, I'm just gonna around with it in the scene and no one's gonna tell him no, you know, like, I could see as well. Well, he's a genius on screen, obviously. Like, he's incredible. Yes.
So, like, nobody's gonna question that choice if it was just Kyle being like, hey, I'm gonna do this thing. Yeah. And it worked. Let's be real. It worked.
And then so we kind of jump over to Max and we see Max kind of taking on a leadership role. Like, he's saying, okay, send those to the clerics for sorting. Like, and people are respecting him. They're listening to him. The best part is when he's like, please don't play with the grenades inside.
Like, like, this is, we think is common sense, but I guess the brotherhood does not have a lot of that over there, apparently, dude, like, when I saw the car, like, they're literally in this warehouse looking at all of these relics from pre bomb area. And it's like, I'm seeing this beautiful car. And they're like, bring her outside. Let's see what this baby can do. And we like all think like, oh, he's gonna drive the car.
No, he didn't drive the car. My favorite moment was like, there's a alien in this refrigerator. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. In Area 51.
And they're like, the alien. There's an ice box. I know. Oh, my gosh. And it's.
It's so perfect because that is how People would probably react because the ice box is way more important than the alien.
And I loved, like, I loved all the little details that they have there in Area 51. Like, I think it was the Constitution or something. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Over there, he's just, like, sitting in a corner.
Where's Nicholas Cage when you need him? Right? I know, right? And then what I. And I actually really liked the scene with Max because I think he's.
He's washing himself or something like that. And, yeah, he's cleaning up. He's cleaning up. And the guy's like, why are you. Like, why.
Why are you doing that? And he says, because it's important. And he doesn't necessarily call him, like, hey. It's more of like, okay, well, what is our duty? And the guy's like, well, to fix this fallen world.
And he's like, well, yeah, sometimes, but in order to make a big problem something you can handle, you have to make it small. And so we start by bettering ourselves. And these are. There's a bunch of different ways that we do that. With self discipline, with valor, with generosity, and not smelling really bad.
And I just honestly, really appreciate that message because it's true. Yep. That. I thought that that was very, very poignant and very, like, wisdom. Like, I was like, for someone who started off poor Max worried about his dick at exploding, to, like, this Max, you've come a long way.
Like, you have come so far. And he's like. He's really coming into himself and stepping into his own. And I'm loving seeing Max with more agency. I love seeing Max question things.
I love seeing Max embodying the kind of values that I think his father tried to instill in him when they were putting him in that refrigerator to save his life in Shady Sands. Like, yeah, I'm loving seeing all of these things. And then we get a great scene with Max and Dane. And I think that. So basically, Max dismisses the cadet, and I think Dane says, it's always going to get dirty again.
And then Max counters, well, better to polish dirty steel than to have it stay clean. And I really liked. Again, it's very, like, wise. Like, I like that kind of mentality from him. And Dane says, we used to quote the Codex to each other as a joke because obviously Max isn't joking anymore.
And he's like, well, I've seen what's out there, and the brotherhood is as good as it gets. I'm just trying to make it better. And I. I like that because, again, it's that agency that he has. He's seen what is out there. He's seen the vaults.
He was in the vault. He loved the vault. And he's still coming back to the Brotherhood because he still thinks that it's better. And to be fair. Fair, like, that's a fair.
A fair choice. But then Dean says, it couldn't have all been bad out there. You met that girl. And Max says she left. And you can kind of see he's trying to be very dismissive.
And Dane is trying to say, well, maybe she's still out there. And Max is probably pushing that thought away. She's like, I have duties here. And Dana is pushing him. Like, I've read the comms.
Quintus, that's his name, called for a meeting, but he didn't tell the Commonwealth. He's breaking the chain of command. And I love this moment between Dane and Max because I. And this is where when people come at me with like, well, why do you ship goy? Why not Max and Lucy?
And my big thing is because Max and Lucy have the same story. They. They need to learn the same lessons, and they cannot get that from each other. They cannot grow from each other. Dane is taking sort of like the ghoul's role here.
I think that Max is going. Dana is the one who's going to change Max's perception about everything. And again, we'll see this play out in episode three. But it's not going to be Lucy that makes Max a better person or want to do right, because we even see it in season one. Max essentially lied to Lucy.
He pretended to be someone he wasn't to try to impress her or to try to get her to like him. With Dane, he can be himself and still learn the lessons that he needs to learn. And I think there are things that he needs to teach Dane too, which is why I've shipped them and shipped them, regardless of whether, you know, like, I thought Max was gonna have a villain arc or not, which now I'm sincerely questioning that. Yeah, I. I think he's gonna have a parallel hero's story to Lucy's 100%. And I, like, I'm shipping Max and Dane hard and.
And have been since season one because they just fit right well. And the thing is, and I think that, like you said, Max needs to teach Dane some things too. And I really like that because again, Max starts out very naive, very similar to Lucy, but in a different way because at least Lucy was very book smart, whereas Max didn't really have experience. And he didn't really have the book smart. He was just a good soldier.
Right. Like, all he had going for him was indoctrination. Yes. And. But now that he has that experience, he's been out there, he's seen the world, he can come back.
And now he's choosing to, you know, clean himself up to kind of take this leadership role of like, let's not play with grenades inside guys. Like, let's, you know, not. That shouldn't be as funny as it is. It shouldn't be, but it's hilarious. And I like that Dane is pointing out there is more to life than the Brotherhood.
You are following the Brotherhood and you might think that it's the only thing out there. But even the Brotherhood is not doing like, it's not doing what you think it's supposed to be doing. Like they're breaking chain of command. Maybe it's not, you know, like, maybe it's better than some of the other stuff. But let's not kid ourselves.
Like, Dane wants to make sure Max isn't just turning a blind eye in order to fit within the Brotherhood the way that Max wants to. Dane wants to make sure again, it's almost like that ghoul teaching Lucy a lesson. Dane wants Max to learn the lesson. He's a little bit more direct, I think, than the ghoul. But at the same time, I think that Dane can recognize that Max has to learn this lesson on his own as well.
Which we will again see in episode three.
Yeah, they are very like, Dane is very like there's. There's an intelligence there that I think is a little bit lacking in Max. Yeah. And it's like it's this ability to read people. Right.
And Max needs more of that, I think too. I think. I think Max.
And this is just me speculating. I think Max is. Has good instincts. And this is. Again, we'll see this play out in episode three.
And why Max maybe likes a certain person that he might otherwise not like. But I think that he doesn't have, like you said, the experience to read how people are. He doesn't have that. And so even though his gut is good, his experience, he doesn't know how to listen to his gut because then happens like it's like every poor Max. Like even in episode three, he does the right thing, but it always him over.
You know what I mean? Like, and so it's sort of like if you had Heinz, if. If you were able to have more experience in the situation of knowing, okay, maybe this is a bad idea. Let's not get too deep into this. And you can prevent stuff from happening.
But I think that's just part of the trajectory that he has to go on. And I think that this is why Dean is such an important figure. Figure to him, because he. Dane is like, the Commonwealth is not going to let the Brotherhood seize power without a war. Is that what you want?
Like, do you want a war? And Max is basically like, well, you said it yourself, there's nowhere out there that's safe. Not as long as there's people out there who. And then he kind of lets his voice trail off. And then Max is basically like, if the Brotherhood can keep history from repeating him itself, then my job is to help them do that.
And again, we know why he. He does not want another Shady Sands. He wants to make sure no one has to go through that. And so what's so interesting, though, is that he's willing to go to war for it. And.
And I just. Just. I don't know. I think that it's really interesting characterization. So what are your thoughts on that scene with Max and Dane?
Like, what do you think this is setting up specifically for Max's own, you know, hero's journey? I. I think it's setting up a. A lesson which we're gonna see in the next episode is maybe don't always trust your first instinct. Yeah. Don't always trust your first read of a situation.
Really kind of think through. Right. But also to, like. I think again. And this is like, the whole Lucy thing all over again, I wanted to see a dialogue with Max and Dean, like, you know.
Yeah. To get. I wanted Max to sort of get Dane's take on it, like, because clearly we know that Dane does not want the war that she. Or that. That.
That they don't trust. You know, the Brotherhood and I would have. Quintus in particular. They don't trust. Yeah.
100. And I. I wanted. I wanted to see more of a dialogue, or at least a curiosity of Max to be like, you know, like, why do you feel this way? Because while Max was out, Dane was back there, and so they had. Dane is literally the one that, like, raised Max's hand and was like, you know, at the end of the last season after Moldava's dead and, like, gave the whole implication.
Yeah. That Max had killed Moldaver and, like, kind of really set Max up in this place of power. Yeah, exactly. That's a really good point. And so it's sort of like, that's where I.
And again, Max is very Lucy esque right here where it's like, I believe what I believe and I'm really going to lean into this despite, you know, the lessons that I need to learn. And this is why I ship Dane and Max and this is why I ship Lucy and Cooper because Lucy and Max are not going to get those lessons from each other. They have to get it from Dean and, and Cooper and it just be like a self perpetuating feedback loop. Like. Yes.
Being the same person. And I don't see, you know, Dane or Max in a parental child role and I don't see them in a mentor mentee. You know, they're on level ground also. Yes. I think they're 100.
And it's not just the age. I think it's, it's again, I think that Max has seen stuff that Dane hasn't. And so it's understandable why Max wants to just do his duty, why Max wants to just make sure that, you know, stuff, history doesn't repeat itself. But what I love about it though is how Max's gaps and Dane's gaps could really fill each other in knowledge wise. Oh yeah.
Create a very strong team. Yes. It's. It's Lucy and Cooper all over again. And that's, and that's what I really like it because it's again, it's that foil relationship that mirrors back things from the main couple to this particular couple.
Yep. And so then we kind of get a flash of like, okay, you know, we, you know, it's sort of like this round table. Like Quintus is basically top. He's essentially has a bunch of different people from the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Coronado. Just to talk.
Can we just note that I love that it's national parks. Yes, I love that too. And is that a video game thing or is that a writer thing? I don't actually remember that if like if that's a video game thing or not, because it has been a long, long time since I played. But.
And like, also it's mostly Commonwealth. When like when I was playing Fallout 4, like everything was in the Commonwealth and like Boston area. Got it. But speaking of Commonwealth. The Commonwealth are not there and they should be.
Whether you like them or not, they should technically be there. Quintus does not think so. Basically he thinks that the, that the Commonwealth would strong arm them and take the relic and not give them anything.
And then we have our very American America guy saying, no, that's taxation without representation. It's un American. But then they're talking about this, potentially the civil war with the Commonwealth. And everyone agrees Commonwealth's probably going to kick their asses, but Quintus is like, well, not if we stand together with the cold fusion. We can power airships and armor and a bunch of other things, and we can kind of be united under this common, you know, banner.
And they point out, it's not our banner, it's your banner, like, you want to do whatever you want to do. And again, we see. We see these armor, these knights are around, and a grenade is pulsating, and I think it's Max, right. That comes in and basically is like, please stop. Yeah.
Children. No, exactly. Was very much the energy of that moment. Yeah. And it's just interesting.
It's fascinating because we see the different sort of brotherhood groups. Like, you know, some don't want to deal with the religious. Others are like, well, women don't get to talk. You know, and then they start. And then one of them has a female leader.
Yeah, exactly. And then they start arguing, and, you know, basically, they're like, look, the Commonwealth pretty much lets us rule ourselves, so go yourselves.
And somebody else says, you just like that. They let you robots. And I thought that was hilarious. That was very funny. And the argument with that is, well, it was just one squire, and he was well within his rights, like, okay, okay, like, I need more backstory, please.
I know. I need. I need some world building here. And so they start arguing, they start fighting with each other, like they don't want to work together. But Quintus is basically saying, look, we have our differences, but there is something we all agree on, and it's power.
And I can make. I can make this cold fusion.
And what's interesting now is now they're taking this holy book, the Codex, and there's very specific laws here that says, you know, you cannot do violence against a brother. But now with power again, you're going to start rewriting what is acceptable and what isn't. It's. You know, they specifically say, I suppose the Codex is open to interpretation. And if that's not a call back to even what Cooper was dealing with pre war, I just think that it's fascinating because it's like, in.
In these tumultuous times, we're going to take something that people see as holy or as, like, even the Constitution, Right. Like things that we regard as reverent and sacred and pretty black and white, and then we start interpreting them for our own gains in order to acquire the power that we want. And it really Reminded me of, like, the pirates code. Oh, yeah, the Caribbean. And then the whole thing with the.
They're more guidelines. Yeah, exactly. And so then all like. So then they're basically like, well, the Commonwealth. We're gonna do whatever we're gonna do.
And then we go back to Lucy, and she's like, I like your outfit. And I'm like, no, you don't. Lucy, stop. Stop lying. Nobody likes that outfit.
I think even the girl. Even the girl's like, no, you don't. I don't like my outfit.
And I just think that, you know, like, Lucy's babbling as she normally does. And. And I love that I don't love this line, but I love it because it's so weird. But she's. You know, Lucy's saying, I'm going to Vegas.
And the girl's like, well, you shouldn't. And she's like, oh, well, I'm looking for someone. And the girl's like, you should go home. I wouldn't want to see you get raped by the wrong people. Are there right people?
Exactly. Like, that's where I'm just like, where are the right people to get raped by?
And so, you know, I think this is, you know, like that Morgan Freeman voice. Like, this is the part where Lucy realized she up, like, you know, suddenly, like, the girl disappears like some crazy ass ghost. And Lucy's like, fudge. And then she's like, hello. And then we kind of see nobody's surrounding her yet, but it's.
It's kind of weird. And she sees the people with the torches and all this, and she's like, oh, maybe I have put my foot in my mouth yet again. Yeah. And it's just. It's frustrating.
Oh, I guess we'll talk about it at the end of the episode. So then we go back to our vaultese, and they decided that they want to go back into their cryo chambers. And Lorem is still trying to, you know, get. Get control of the situation, but he basically is like, do you think Bud Askins makes mistakes? And.
Which is so genius. Like, it is such a genius thing. And so intelligent. Like, he is villain. Sexy, smart.
And. And Claudia's all like, well. And then it's like, oh, my God, Claudia, we're trying to have a conversation here. Like, I'm just dying because this banter is so funny. Hilarious.
I know. I love them. I need their backstory. Like, I need to know what was happening with them. Like, pre bomb drop.
I need to know, too. Honestly, I. I completely agree with that. So what's great about getting enemies to lovers energy there? Oh, a hundred percent. 100.
And then so basically, Norm manages to get them to essentially start, like, focusing and doing what they're good at doing and, you know, overriding security protocols, schematics, all of that stuff. Like. And the merit dots. The merit dots were so freaking brilliant. Yes, exactly.
And so this. And then it flashes again. And now we're back with Hank, and this is a really interesting scene because he has a human now, and he gives the guy champagne. And the guy's like, well, who are you? And Hank is just completely honest.
He's talking about how his experiment isn't working. The mice are small. They're like, you know, he needs a bigger specimen. And the guy's like, oh, you know, like, I think there's a mistake. I signed up for this vault, TEC Premium.
And Hank's like, did you read the fine print? And it's just. The guy says, yes, I know, I know. And Hank's like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. I didn't read it.
But what's so fascinating is I love this. And this is where I hate Hank, but at the same time, it's hard to hate him because he talks about, I noticed on your file that you had a family, but you only bought a ticket for one. And the guy's like, well, it was expensive. And Hank's like, you can't put a price. Price on family.
Yes. And he says, essentially, that family is the first building block of civilization. And to me, that told me that he picked Steve because it's not only that he's by himself and he doesn't have a family, but because the guy was such an asshole to his own family that Hank like you. And it's like, it's hard because I relate to that. You know, Like, I approach.
Appreciate what Hank did. Like, he purposefully went out of his way to not pick someone with a family. You know what I mean? And, like, I. I agree with that. And I also feel like it was very, like, judgmental on his part and, like, you in particular, for being that much of an.
To your family. So you are therefore expendable. Exactly. And so it's like he. When he does stuff like that, there's this con.
Like, this dissonance inside of me where it's like, I'm not rooting for him, but at the same time, I'm kind of rooting for, like, not for him to win the entire show, but, like. But in that moment, I agree with that. Victory. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I'll let you run this experiment.
Hank you. I'll allow it. Like, you can. You can do this. And that's fine.
And so I just thought that that was. And he is like, this guy, like, completely dies. His head explodes. And Hank's like, gotta try again, I guess, you know, like, right? And like, can we just applaud his tenacity?
Oh, yeah. Like, the perseverance in the, like, I will explode as many as it takes to do what I'm gonna do. And you have to, like, even if you don't agree with him, you have to appreciate that kind of like those kind of stones and that kind of like absolute follow through and like, willingness to just keep going and going and going and going. Yeah, a hundred percent.
So then we get. We're back to Lucy. She's so funny, which is like, I realize we all have our cultural differences, but just so you know, I'm nice and I'm like, oh, Lucy, if only. If only we could see, save, you know, like, be saved just because we're nice, you know? But at that moment, she realized she up.
That it doesn't matter how nice you are. You know, people are gonna, you, you know, like it. You. You. You've got to be a little bit more discerning in who not so much you're gonna rescue, but who you're gonna trust.
Like, if Lucy had just rescued the tunic and been like, okay, now you can go on your merry way. Yeah, that's. That's a little bit different. I could understand that. But I think she was trying to be so petty with Cooper just to prove to herself that I am not Cooper.
How? Well, she doesn't know who he is. But I'm not the ghoul. I'm gonna go above and beyond to make sure everyone knows that I'm not like him. I'm, you know, like, I think that that was more her being prideful than even following her own morality.
Because she saved the girl and just let her walk away. Like, why did she need to take her back? You know what I mean? It was. It was very much a situation.
Yeah. So anyway, so then we go back to our Vaultese, and I love this. They basically get out of the vault, and Norm, like, Norm has his moment. Like, he has never been out of a vault before, and he's just like, it. It's beautiful, Beautiful.
I love it. That was such a great moment. It was such a great moment. And then so we get more fighting. Okay, this is a scene.
That I don't, like, really understand. Like, because this big night guy is all like, oh, are you the one that killed that NCR moldover? And he's like, yeah, I did that. And the guy's like, well, I bet I couldn't mash you. And I'm like, is this just dude talk?
Like, do people just. I'm just gonna get into a fight just to get into a fight. Like, what? I was. I was messaging Chelsea.
I was like, what was the point of this particular scene? And so, Chelsea, I'm gonna let you respond to that because I think you did a good job. Just when you were telling me about it, like, why did we have this fight between Max and this, like, big ass dude? Like, why? I, like, I think part of it is testosterone fueled idiocy.
But also the reason Max actually engages and goes along with this, I think, is to prove his loyalty to Quintus and maybe to even, like, as a distraction because something is coming which he or may not know about. But I think he's trying very much to just prove his loyalty and his worth and his value to Quintus. And that's why it's important he comes out on top of this altercation, and like, he. You know, you see him look at Quintus, like, yeah, do I go for it? Okay.
And I think it's almost like a reflection of what Lucy. Like, she. I feel like, especially after that conversation with Dane, Max has to double down on his beliefs that the brotherhood is the right choice. And it's sort of like, so he will fight. It's almost like a stupid war.
Like, he will fight the stupid fight because the brotherhood is asking him to do it and because he genuinely thinks that this is the right thing to do. And instead of actually sitting and thinking, like, why? Like, why do I need to do this? So they fight. And I just feel like Max sometimes, like, lucks himself into these things.
Like, he has the skill, but he's also so clumsy sometimes that even he's surprised. Like, he's won. Like, oh, that was an accident. I did that. Yeah, right.
But I'm like, part of me wonders if that is a mask or a play or a ploy to keep everyone complacent and thinking that he is less capable than he is. Like, is it a survival skill or is it just what it appears to be on the surface? That makes sense. So after the fight where Max does take the guy down and he kills him, we get an interruption and we get Xander Harkness, and he's Basically, like, oh, well, I'm a liaison from the Commonwealth, and we're discussing a civil war. Like, I guess I didn't get my invitation.
And Quintus is like, holy. What the. But he's basically like, and yet here you are. And, like, I want to know who the tipped him off. Was it Max?
Was it Dane? Was it somebody else? Like, I want to know who tipped Commonwealth off. Yes.
Give me your theories, because obviously we don't know as of right now, even with episode three. Like, what are your theories? With the look that Max and Harkness exchanged after Harkness showed up in that little nod, I almost think that it was Max who tipped Harkness off, but I could be wrong. But like, that. Just that silent visual exchange that they had made me think that Max might have been the one that tipped Harkness off about the breach in the chain of command.
I think that if that's true, he does that because of what Dane says. Absolutely. Because Max does not realize Quintus is breaking chain of command until Dane mentions it. Right. I think it would be juicier if Dane was the one that tipped him off.
I agree. I. I am leaning towards Dane only because I think Max is still. I'm doing what I'm told mentality, but I think Dana very much. I'm gonna question what we're told mentality. Yes.
And I think that Max has.
I just think. I just. I think it's Dane, but I think that. But I. I think that. And we'll see this in episode three.
Like, Max genuinely likes Harkness. Like, he.
I think it's just that lesson that he had. It's like Dane is giving him that push that he kind of needs, but in a way where he's not necessarily telling Max what to do. It's more of like, Dane is gonna do what they think is the right thing. And, like, they think that regardless of what happens, the Commonwealth should be at that meeting. No, Matt.
Like, it's just the right thing. It's chain of command. If Max wants to go and follow the Brotherhood, then we can't just decide that the Codex is up for interpretation. You have to follow the rules. And so it's sort of like figuring out, well, what rules do you follow?
What rules don't you follow? Because technically, Dane is also going against chain of command by going over Quintus's head and telling, you know, Harkness, or at least Commonwealth, hey, this is what's going on. So I really like it because it's hard because Not. You cannot have everything be black and white in the waists. You just.
And whether it's the shades of gray. Yeah. Whether it's the rules or morality. And those are the two, like, journeys that you have Max on for the rules. Are they black and white?
And then Lucy and her morality, Is it black and white? And we're going to find that out. So the episode ends that way. So obviously, we kind of touched on this, Chelsea. But, like, I think we're both in the same boat.
As after episode two, we were both, like, much better than episode one. But we were really pissed off with Lucy and decisions. I'm just like, girl, when are you gonna learn your lessons? Right. Man has done nothing but save your ass ever since the.
The Super Duper Mart. Like, yeah, exactly. Come on, now. And I just think.
Well, let me ask you this from a writer perspective. Based on everything that's happened in season one, I think we could both agree that Lucy does learn a lesson when she puts her mom down. And she learned that specifically from the ghoul. Does Lucy need to. Now that we're in kind of.
If this were a book, it'd be book two. You know, we're in season two. Right. Lucy also, like, needs to learn more lessons. Like, she's not finished from learning her lessons.
So clearly she needs to learn that she can't. She can't just trust or save. Some people aren't necessarily worth saving. Right. And, like, appearances can be deceiving.
This is the biggest lesson in the wasteland, is, like, not everything is how it appears on the surface. And you've got to look deeper. You have to be smart enough to look under the surface. Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out, like, with the way that they've set it up, obviously, what.
At least what I'm hoping. I'm hoping that by the end of season two, Lucy trusts Cooper. Now Lucy's put in a position, and she will pick Cooper over whoever.
But I'm trying to figure out, like, from a writing perspective, I. I mean, personally, I like the fact that she's kidnapped by the Legion because now Cooper is forced to rescue her. And that does all the things. My ship or heart, I love that. But the way that it was set up, do you think that it could have been better? Do you think that if you're writing this as a book, you know, book two, Act One, like, do you do something similar, or do you think that that almost retcons some of her characterization from season one?
Like, what are your thoughts on how this was set up. I think it could have been done in a way that did not appear to retcon some of her character development from season one. I think that we could have found a way to tweak it, but also with the way that it's going right now, I think it's just so much that her emotions are more in control of her than her logic is right now. Yeah.
Because I'm. I'm. It's. I'm in a tricky spot because it's sort of like they've started about two weeks from the end of season one. There's a lot of development that we did not get to see happen between Lucy and the ghoul.
So. And I'm sure they did it on purpose, so they didn't have to necessarily explain certain things or why certain things are happening or even Lucy's motivations, to a degree. Because my thing is more like. But I don't think she learns the lesson the same way if it's done differently either. I think that she has to be gung ho, she has to be emotional.
She has to make all of these choices in order to really get that foot in her mouth. Because if, let's say, she just lets the girl go and somehow the Legion kidnaps her, she's not really learning a lesson. She's now just kidnapped and Cooper has to go sort of after her. But based on all of the choices that she made, this is not Cooper's. I mean, to a degree, could you argue that maybe he is somewhat responsible if he kind of could predict what was going to happen and he sort of let it happen?
Possibly. But Lucy's an adult. Like, she made all of her choices. He let her make the choice even when he told her what to do. We are not going to give resources to the Tunics.
Let's, like, basically kill them. They're not worth it. They're evil people, essentially. Give me the stim pack. He has said he basically told her, you need to do these things.
And every single time he told her to do something, she went and did the opposite. And so it's sort of like. I think that you're absolutely right. I think that her emotions are just getting the better of her right now. And I think that.
Oh, we're gonna. I'm gonna love talking about episode three, but it's just. I don't think she learns that lesson if it's done any. Any other way. Yeah.
And despite how frustrated I am with her decisions and despite my, you know, kind of questioning, is it A plot device or actual character development. You know, I think that it has to happen this way or else she. It's. It's not the same. You know what I mean?
Yeah. I think it has to go exactly the way it went because, like, she's not. He's not gonna get to have the petty, okay, learn it the hard way moment. Right. Otherwise, and she's not gonna get to have a bought lesson.
Right. And I also think that in his own way, Lucy was teaching Cooper a lesson. Like, you have to be nicer, and not just for me, but, like, for your own family. If you are after your own family and you're this much of a dick, like, you have to change that or else they're not going to want to be around you kind of thing. Like, I don't see Barb being.
Barb putting up with that at all. And like, I see Janie being really disappointed, but, like, I. Barb would straight up, like, whip him. Oh, yeah. Acting like that. Like, there's no question in my mind.
And while I don't. I don't think Cooper gives a shot about Barb, I think that he does care about Janie what Janie thinks. Yeah. And even does he deserve to have her love for all of the things that he's had to do in order to survive, in order to see her again kind of thing. Right.
And so I just. I think that it's. It's going to be really interesting. I'm just, again, not really a spoiler, but an episode. I'm just glad that they're back together because if.
Right. If I. If it took like, three episodes for them to, like, rescue, I was just gonna. I was gonna be so upset.
But. Yeah, so I think that. Yeah, I think it has to happen this way. Do you know, obviously we're gonna get into episode three next time, but, you know, do you think Cooper learns a lesson from Lucy's choices, or do you think it's more of this is cute what she's doing, but I'm gonna go over and basically say that I'm right kind of thing. Like, do you think.
I think he's very much the. The latter right now. Like, it's. It's like, let me go prove to the Vaulte how wrong she was again. Even he used her golden rule, you know, and like, the fact that, you know, like, I mean, it's the title of the episode and it can be applied even to Max's situation.
Like, you're. You have this whole group of. Of brotherhood and they're leaving somebody out, you know, and so it's sort of like you're not treating others the way that you want to be treated. Lucy is not treating Cooper the way that she wants to be treated. And Cooper.
Cooper might be a dick, but in this episode, I don't see him treating Lucy badly. And so when Cooper said golden rule, I started laughing because it was the same. It. I mean, my. The romantic shipper in me is like, oh, he remembered.
He remembered that she saved him essentially the same way. But he's laughing. He already knows. He already knows what's gonna happen.
Yep. And like, it's. It's his pragmatism versus her optimism. Yes. So much right now.
I just think that's. I. And I love that. I love that. Because they're gonna find a balance.
They have to. And it's even just listening to the actors discuss it, like, who's going to win out, who's going to affect who the most. And that's the interesting part in this situation. So I think. Do you have any other things that you want to discuss with the episode that we haven't talked about yet?
Nope, I'm good. Okay. I'm super happy with, like, where we're at at the end of episode two. Yes, I. I agree. And so we will be back to discuss episode three.
And let me tell you, that one. That one, it's in my top three all time fave episodes of this. This show so far. So far. Yeah, I know.
It was so good. Gosh, it gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. Chelsea, do you have any questions for them for the comments?
Who do you think tipped off Harkness. I want to know who you guys think tipped Harkness off in the comments. Great. And then. Yeah.
And then we will be back for episode three. All right, guys, take care. See you. Bye.
