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The longing is bigger than the workplace, and Dean's life shows why.
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His story connects the courage to come out, the work of building inclusive cultures, and the quiet systems that tell people they are wanted.
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This episode is for anyone working out who they are and where they add value.
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Hello friends, and welcome to I Know I Belong Len, an innovation, unbiased production where bold voices, curious stories, and authentic impact amplify knowing that you are invited, seen, heard, and needed.
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Our conversations go from the boardrooms to the break rooms, from the sidewalks to our living rooms, from our relationships to ourselves.
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We explore the full spectrum of belonging, the joy of being seen, the pain of being left out, and the courage it takes to build spaces where every identity is welcomed, valued, and loved.
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We also hold space for each of our unique identities to joyfully prosper and thrive.
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I am your host, Christopher Bylone, someone who believes knowing you belong is a birthright.
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Everyone says the same thing about artificial intelligence.
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It's coming for the jobs.
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Fewer people, colder teams, culture flattened into a dashboard no one opens.
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Our guests took a look at that exact technology and asked the question that no one was asking.
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What if AI could protect jobs rather than erasing them?
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What if it could make culture more human, not less?
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Meet Dean Carter.
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For more than 25 years, Dean has been one of the most respected people leaders in the country.
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He has served as chief human resources officer four separate times, at Fossil, at Patagonia, at Sears and Kmart, and at Guild.
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Along the way, his HR teams won national recognition for reinventing the future of work.
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He helped write the Fields Playbook in one of the most direct ways possible.
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His book, Employee Experience Design, How to Co-Create Work Where People and Organizations Thrive, became an Amazon number one bestseller.
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He has also served as a board of director for public and private companies, including Cornerstone on Demand and Griffith Foods.
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Then he did one of the few things veteran HR leaders ever do.
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He became a founder.
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And still is his first role as chief executive, and the mission is bold.
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He calls it the world's first culture operating system, an AI native platform that helps organizations see, measure, and improve culture every day, in real time and in the flow of actual work.
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His thesis cuts against the moment we are all in.
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He believes in regenerative HR, he believes in human-first AI, and believes technology can save the jobs everyone else is rushing to cut out.
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And here is the detail worth reviewing twice.
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His black lab blue was a gift from Julia Roberts.
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Dean has shared a stage with Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey, and he still will tell you with a serious face, he can make the most fabulous pancakes.
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The story we keep hearing about AI ends with fewer people in the room, less what made work worth doing.
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Dean Carter is busy rewriting a different ending, one where the technology serves the human and the human still belongs.
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Dean Carter, welcome to I know I belong when.
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Christopher.
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Thank you so much for that introduction.
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I I uh the founder found me, so I just want to make sure I recognize Hamewat.
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He built this runner all thing.
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And uh I think he may have made it for me that I didn't know him in another universe.
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He's like, I'm gonna make this thing that is gonna be so perfect for Dean to run.
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And he did put it out into the world in terms of like, I built this, like I'm looking for someone to run it, and my name kept coming up, and like, you need to talk to Dean Carter.
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And so, yeah, I'm delighted to bring this to market.
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If I hadn't invented, I sure would have tried.
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Well, wonderful.
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Thank you for that correction.
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And talk about sponsorship at its finest.
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That somebody was thinking about who was going to run their company, and people kept mentioning your name to that person, and then finally they listened and said, Dean, come on board.
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So that is sponsorship at its finest.
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So, Dean, let's get into this conversation.
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You have spent more than 25 years, and yes, you have spent more than 25 years inside human resources, and now you lead an AI company built to save jobs rather than cut them across every role.
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What is the one belief about people and work that has never moved for you?
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When I formed this belief, it was more like leave things better than you find them, is just a motto of mine.
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And then it evolved when I went to Patagonia to a little bit more deeper concept because Patagonia shifted its purpose from basically do no unnecessary harm to save the home planet.
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That's very different.
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Like building things that only the harm planet a little bit to saving it.
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And that's when Patagonia decided to move and shift from a predominantly apparel company, which was you know, to some ways unhelpingly extractive to build the products that we're building to agriculture company.
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And you'll see Patagonia becoming more of a food company.
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And the reason is because if the whole world went to regenerative agriculture practices, then we would not just stop climate change, we'd reverse it.
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And regenerative ag means, you know, traditional ag like traditional HR is highly extractive.
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It's like how much can you take on and squeeze out of human beings in a possible year?
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Right.
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And at the end of the year, you know, you say thank you, give it a reward of 3.5, and then you and then they'll leave depleted, and then you try to figure out what to do with them, and you invest a bunch of money in fertilizers, pesticides, benefits, and health care.
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And so trying to fix them.
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So that's kind of what I came up with is this a sentence, and it's in the book, and that is for what I put into my work, I believe the company gives back equal or greater value to my life.
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And I think fundamentally that's the thing that we need to do.
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It's not like the company has to give a lot and be ping-pong tibles and snacks.
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I'm saying for what I put into my work, I believe the company should crack equal or greater value to my life.
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It's not saying, you know, I need to have an amazing experience since all the companies saying, I'm gonna put my stuff in, but just make it an equal and mutual value and arrangement.
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And so if the company is so incredible that they are able to give a little bit more value than you put in, then you've hit the holy grail, they'll never leave.
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And they'll walk walk up steps two, three, four steps at a time.
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But if you just get to a mutual thing and think they feel like that feels fair.
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So that's what I do.
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I talk a lot about this concept, it's important to me.
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I design programs and benefits around it and systems around that concept.
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And every single time I get a chance to speak, I I say the that sentence, Well, what happened to tomorrow?
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I believe the company puts spec equal or greater value to my life.
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Yeah, and I think, you know, for me, it's thinking about the kid who grew up on the farm as an agriculture major, somebody who understands about how you treat the earth is how it's going to grow vegetables for you.
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So I think it's really powerful that you were at Patagonia at a time when it started to make that transition.
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I think about how, you know, even today, thinking about what I put in is what I'm gonna get out of my work.
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As a solarpreneur, I'm thinking about, yeah, I'm I'm putting in a lot of work every day.
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And what am I giving back to myself to make sure that I'm staying whole?
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I think that that's really powerful that people need to sit with, you know, the statement really can work in any size organization from a solarpreneur to, you know, a 10,000 employee organization.
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I think it just it really works.
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For humans too.
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I mean, you got to think about you what you're putting in, you know.
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If you're putting out more than you put in, you're you're you're not gonna last very long.
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You know, right, your cup's gonna run dry.
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So you gotta make sure you operate with a full cup, right?
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Yeah, always.
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And I try to keep my baseline pretty high because I know that things are gonna happen in life.
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And so knowing that, you know, things are gonna happen, this is gonna happen.
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At least I don't start here and go to here.
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So I try to keep my baseline always as high as possible for the moment that I'm in, just in case.
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And things have happened for sure.
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You know, cancer, it's just other things in life.
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That's so my baseline was high enough.
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So the one here actually wasn't way, way down here.
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It was kind of up to this point.
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I get I get it.
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I truly get it.
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As somebody who had cancer, I totally understand it.
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So heal you on that one.
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So one of the things that we talk about on the show is we love to talk about somebody's name.
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I am a stickler for names.
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I'm always Christopher, never Chris.
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So Dean Carter, it's an unassuming name that has walked into boardrooms most people will never reach.
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A name does not earn that.
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The person does.
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So tell us who named you and what were they hoping you would become?
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Um, my parents name me.
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My my dad's middle name is Dean.
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So I'm named after my dad and his name, so I carry that.
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I love this name.
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I think it's a it's the reason I do, it's a cool name because it's it's not normal, but everyone knows it.
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Most crowds that get to say, hi, this is Dean.
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Or, you know, it's oh, I need to talk to Dean.
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They know exactly the one person you know to go to and talk to.
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They're like four in Santa Barbara, which we've had the limit.
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We have like a dean packed, only four in this town, and so anyone else has to get approval from the other deans.
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And I uh so it's enough where you can go to a gas station to have your name on the little license plate and the keychain.
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So I that's good enough for me.
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But it's uh I do get comments about it.
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It's a cool name, like Dean Carter, and it's it's easy to spell, but I really embrace my name.
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I do sometimes get like that's a cool name, like it sounds like a movie star.
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Are you a movie star?
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I'm like, no, I'm not a movie star, but somehow I got a cool name.
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My parents all named a single cell board saying, Dean, Brett, Chad, Cole.
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So I think they could just yell it across the pasture.
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Can you believe?
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And then it had to arrive, you know, Dean Eric.
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So I think it was named so an easy name to yell it out in a way, but I would not change my name.
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I think it was a like a gift.
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It's easy to spell, easy to remember, and it's unique.
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And I I own that name.
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That's awesome.
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Thank you for that.
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Yeah, it is.
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It does sound like a movie star name.
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So maybe one day, you never know.
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That might be a title that you could add to the bio, you know, so one can keep dreaming.
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So here's what the if you Google me, the first name that comes up is Dean Carter.
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And by the way, in Wikipedia, that's a serial killer and it's not me.
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So good to know.
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Good to know, friend.
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Good to know.
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On the book, I had to put the name Dean E.
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Carter so that people, when they Googled me and for the book, they wouldn't come up with a serial killer, it'd be my name.
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So there's only a one Dean E.
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Carter.
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So you can't, if you Google Dean E.
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Carter on Amazon, you'll get to write to my book.
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If you view Dean Carter, you'll get like an old 1950s rock and roll guy or a serial killer.
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So those are, yeah, so that's why I a lot of times I put Dean E.
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Carter, which separates me from the serial killer and the single hit wonder rock star Dean Carter.
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Good to know, good to know.
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We might need to make that part of the show notes so that people can find the exact the right person.
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Don't want people to get confused who's coming on the I Know I've a long one podcast.
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My personal goal in life is to get rate higher than the serial killer on the Google search.
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Like if I can get Well, still not there.
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Still not there.
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Well, hopefully this show will add one more little uh chink in that goal.
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So, okay.
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So let's talk about the moment that you knew you belonged.
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Take us to a specific moment.
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It might be early, like your HR days at ProVision, or it might be a boardroom decades later.
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Where were you and what made that land for you that you knew you belonged there?
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There was, I was at Pearl Vision, and uh this was in Texas early in my career, and it's such a distant memory for most people don't even know this existed.
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But the sodomy laws were in place, and what that meant is if you were gay, then you got put in prison.
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Wasn't jail, you you got put in prison.
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And so being out was dangerous.
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You didn't lose your job, you lost everything, you lost your life.
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It was it was a scary thing.
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So coming out wasn't just difficult, it was dangerous.
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Yes.
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So at Provision, you know, I put up pictures of girls on, you know, in the thing, or I didn't talk about you know, boyfriends or anything like that, but I would go on dates and people wonder.
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Anyhow, somehow I got around, of course, because I didn't hide it necessarily, but I didn't go out of my way.
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And so someone started saying, you know, Dean Carter's gay and he shouldn't be here.
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He's, you know, it's so immoral, he's a sodomist, it's against the law, he's breaking law by being here and he doesn't belong here.
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So I went to the head of HR's office, Roy Wilson, and I said, Roy, a lot of people are talking about this, and it's true.
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And I'm tired of lying.
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I'm tired of like faking it, I'm tired of turning my pictures over because lies breed lies, and I just I'm tired of it.
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And so if this place has a hard time with this, then I'm gonna find another place.
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I seem to be seem to be getting promoted every 18 months, and I'm doing a darn good job around here.
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But if that's okay, I'll go somewhere else, I'll find somewhere else to work.
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And I just wouldn't let you know that it's true, and I just need to let you know that.
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And he said, Oh my gosh, Dean, that's terrible.
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You are so doing such good work here.
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I can't believe someone said that about you.
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You're so safe, you're so okay, and you have a long and wonderful career here at Pearl Vision.
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As long as I'm here, as long as anyone here, no one in the company that I know of, you know, you are so safe here.
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And uh that's when I knew I belonged, and I could no longer hide.
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And I also wanted to be head of HR that day, so that someday when I sit in this seat, I make sure everyone feels like they belong.
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Like well.
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What what a powerful story, and thank you for that vulnerability.
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I do truly appreciate it as a fellow gay man.
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I understand.
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I also know that I grew up in a time where a lot of those sodomy laws were not on the books, and a lot of the work that don't want to date you, but your generation did to change those things.
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And so thank you for that.
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You know, we still have a lot of work to do.
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We still have a lot of work to do.
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You know, at least in the United States, we're not gonna go to jail and be put in prison.
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Yeah, at least right now.
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At least in the moment.
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At least in the moment, at least in the moment.
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Um so thank you, and thank you for that vulnerability.
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And what a recognition that somebody saw the value you brought to the organization and wanted to make sure that you knew that not just your job was safe, but your life was safe.
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It is, and you know, there's a bit uh irony in that story.
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The person I remember specifically, I won't say her name, but I know exactly the person who was spreading fat around and you know being the main champion.
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A year later, I don't know what she did, but she got fired and I got her job.
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Well, ain't that the icing on the cake?
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I didn't cause that, but I did end up replacing her.
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Yeah, she ended up getting Lego and uh they said, so thank you, Dean.
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Appreciate that.
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I ended up that's karma.
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That's karma.
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You know, that's that is karma.
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That is karma finished.
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It's like, oh, you know that A's are gonna take your job.
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Dean Carter might.
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Well, if she's listening, so sorry.
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But not uh alrighty, so what did that change for you?
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Like how did you show up in rooms after that?
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Like it has to been a weight was lifted off your shoulders.
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Well, it was a big weight.
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I could be safe at work and not have to worry about losing my job, which is a big deal.
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So losing your ability to pay for rent and life and things, and so and I was pretty confident I'd find another job.
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.240
You know, I just like and I could get through.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:43.120
But I did it did change get my level of confidence that he had my back.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.919
And I really tried to do that whenever I work.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:49.279
I'm probably not you know perfect at it, but I really tried that.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:54.000
And then it's when I really picked up the concept of um the poem First They Came.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:17:06.240
I have it on my wall, just a reminder, you know, first they came for the communists, then they came for this group, and then then it came for this group, and then they came for me, and there's no one else to speak up for me.
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:22.240
But I just I feel like I have to always speak up for the person in the room that it doesn't feel like they belong, because it's just the right thing to do, and and always know that you know no one can escape not feeling like they belong in a situation.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.519
And so it just doesn't feel good to do it, and I make sure everyone feels like they do.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.200
I I appreciate that.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:33.759
So now this wouldn't be the I Know I Belong one podcast if we also didn't talk about the dark side of belonging, the non-belonging.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.799
And so it could be that story that you just shared and expand on it, or it could be something completely different.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:44.480
But was there a moment when you truly questioned if you belong someplace?
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.920
And what was that feeling for you and how did you work through it?
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.559
You know, I never felt like I belonged to the playground.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.000
I hated it so much.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.640
I got chased and bullied and beat up.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.759
I never got picked for any of the sports because I was small and I hid.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:01.759
I actually tried to be invisible.
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:16.480
I would hide behind trees, I would hide behind teachers, I would do everything I could to not go to recess because I knew it was I would be so shunned or you know, called names, or I'm kindergarten.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.319
I don't understand these things, you know.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.559
When you call called names, you're like, I don't even know that concept.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.960
You're calling me that, and I don't even know what that means.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.440
And so that was my first experience with you know hiding.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.759
And that's because I be I became really good friends with the teachers because they would protect me.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.200
So I was a cute little kid.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:43.599
Yes, and so I took advantage of my little cuteness and to stay right next to the teacher, and so no one would beat me up if I stood next to the teacher.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.319
Then um, in later time, it's this was the most ironic one though.
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:56.160
It was at a well-known company that I worked for that really is a promoter to some extent of you know really progressive values.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:06.799
And there's a moment when things started to shift, and I went to the LGBTQ resource group meeting, and they said, Why are you here?
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.680
Well, I think that's obvious why I'm here.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.240
And they said, No, you can't be in the room.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.359
I'm like, why?
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:19.279
They said, because you're a cis gendered, straight passing gay white male and you're loaded with privilege.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.119
I was like, What?
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.559
To repeat that?
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.079
You're a cis gendered, straight passing gay white male.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.079
I'm like, I I don't even know how to respond to that.
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.440
I don't even I don't either I don't even want to be in this room anymore.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.440
Because if that bothers you, then I'm a cis gendered, straight passing, gay white male.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.759
By way, that's loaded with like all sorts of stuff.
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:41.599
I don't even know what straight passing means.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:48.640
You know, I didn't ever think about me as cis or whatever gendered, but I just I I I I don't want to belong in this group.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:59.200
But there's a person I felt like the group that I would belong to the most, that I would be accepted the most, was the group that kicked me out the most uh intensely.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.559
It wasn't negotiable.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.079
Wasn't negotiable.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:13.200
I'm I'm still stuck on the straight passing because I jokingly say to people, if you can't figure out that I'm gay within the first five minutes of talking to me, I don't need to come out to you.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:13.759
Right?
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.640
Like yeah, the people figure these things out.
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.680
There's a lot of things they can do, but the that's the people who figure them out.
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:26.000
But it there was like a, you know, this is like, you know, podcasty voice in it, but I never said it out loud.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.720
But if they're listening now to this podcast, this is what I want to say.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.200
You want to know how gay I am?
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:43.839
Sister to try passing gay white male, back the sodomy laws, when you get beat up and you get to the bar, then I started fighting for rights for the police not to beat you up in the bars and got rid of the sodomy laws.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:54.720
And the one who fought for your right to marry, and I was there and holding hands of all the people when your friends are dying of AIDS, and I fought to make sure that you have the health care that you need to keep you alive.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:00.960
Everything you have for your right to say that I am a sistered, straight passing gay white male, that I can't come to the room.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:04.799
I fought for every one of you in this room.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.799
That is how gay I am.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:14.720
That I've never said that out loud, but I just was a moment where like, really?
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.759
You know, you're the one with privilege that I've set for you.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:25.440
So you're calling me out, and I get all the privilege that comes with white and male and all these things.
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:31.680
I get that, but to call it out and to exclude me for it in my own community was the ultimate insult.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.240
And so you can tell this raw for me.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:35.359
Yeah.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.079
Hey, look, we're about raw conversations.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.480
So if you want to raw just that's very raw.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:40.880
Yeah.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.519
Thank you.
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:46.799
And what I would just say is like this is something that we we struggle with in our own community.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:54.319
We are advocating for inclusion, yet we are probably one of the most exclusive groups that there is out there, right?
00:21:54.480 --> 00:22:09.680
I mean, how clicky we are, not to get in all to the terminology that we use, but like we Put people in boxes and labels, and you're over there, and we're over here, and you go to this week at P Town, and you go to that week at P Town, and never the two communities shall cross.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.960
Like, I totally get it.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.119
And so that's just wowing to me.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:14.480
So thank you for that.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:26.000
So one, you have taken all of those moments and just uh use them as fuel to sustain your life, your career, just who you are as dean.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:40.799
And so how do you, you as somebody who has spent a career making work a place where people know that they belong, tell us about a specific thing you do, a ritual or habit that makes sure that other people know that they belong in the room?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.119
Well, I don't always do it well, you know, but I'm always trying to get better.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.640
So I mean, there's moments when I'm like, ooh, I didn't do that so great.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:59.279
But I do try to acknowledge everyone and acknowledge their situation, understand potentially the challenges that they're bringing to the room and why they might not feel like they belong.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.039
So I try to go out of my way.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:06.319
I I usually try to find the person in the room that isn't with anybody else, like the quiet person.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.519
It's easy to talk to all the noisy and loud people like that.
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:14.960
And I but I I really do find the person in the back of the room who's like, hey, you know, what's up?
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:15.839
Who are you?
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.920
And so I try to do that.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.000
It's important to me because I know what it was like to be that other person that no one spoke to.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.559
And so I try to make I mean I have work to do.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:34.880
There's a moment when the company I work for, when you're having a meeting, it gives you a little information about your behavior at the end of the meeting.
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.960
And I got really low score on inclusion.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.799
I'm like, but I push it.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.119
Inclusion.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.279
And and it I mean, it just gives you a low score, it just means you have an opportunity to be better.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.880
That's not like a punishment thing.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:52.400
But and it's just that there were, you know, you paid attention to three people in the room, and there are two people in the room you didn't even acknowledge.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.039
And they probably have something really valuable to say.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.720
And uh and so the next time you meet, might want to consider that.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.680
So the next time we did call on both of those people first.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:07.759
And turns out that the person that I called on first is brilliant, a great UX designer.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.839
And I call on this person typically first now, because we start with UX and then we go through the other things.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.480
So I spend a lot of time with that person because they're just really, really brilliant.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.559
So anyhow, this one time when I messed it up recently, you don't always get it right.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.920
But that's okay.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:28.559
It's okay because you're gonna get it wrong, and then what you do is you you try to make it right.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.200
If you get it wrong and you just go, so what?
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.160
Then that's a problem.
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:35.599
If you get it wrong and you work to fix it very fast, then I think that's okay.
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:37.839
Well, I mean, we're human, we're gonna make mistakes.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:39.759
And that's part of the recovery.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:48.559
It's the it's the recovery, it's one of the things that I talk to people about is like, look, like sometimes your actions are gonna be biased, and that's human, right?
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:52.480
But however, it is the recovery that you're doing.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:53.839
How are you making it right?
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.400
The not just the apology, but the action, right?
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:07.039
What's the atonement that you're doing so that you make sure that one, you never do it again, but make sure that people understand that you've actually listened and are not just trying, but doing better.
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:12.880
There's um there are the like ways of making people belong you aren't even just calling them out in the room.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.359
Just like the systems and processes and companies.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:28.799
Like um at Patagonia, one of the things that they do is when a woman is nursing, they pay for the woman, the baby, and a traveling companion to travel with them so that she can continue nursing.
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:37.920
Um what happens is if you're nursing and pumping, you it's very difficult to cure your equipment and the baby expensive to go over.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:55.039
See, so usually since you no longer belong because you're a nursing mother, they send someone else in your place because you can't make it because you need to stay home and pump, or you stop pumping, or you take breast milk with you, or you have to pump it out before you know pump it and then pour it out before you get on the airplane.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.000
All these things.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:05.279
So by that little thing, I saying we're gonna pay for a traveling companion for you so that you can continue breastfeeding your baby that you want to and still do great work.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.720
Just that single thing says, as a working mom, I belong.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:09.519
Yes.
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.599
I've never heard that before, Dean.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.359
And wow, like just wow, that's just amazing.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.720
You don't have to say anything.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:17.759
Just like you belong.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:19.279
Of course, we're gonna set this up for you.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.240
You belong in that room.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.960
You're smart, you're the best person to be in that room.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:24.640
Of course we're gonna do this.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:32.480
I got what when I went to another company and implemented that, I got a note from the CFO who said, Um, could you grab me an ROI for that?
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.359
Could you give me the ROI for that?
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:43.519
And I said, Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but someday when you breast pump and you have a baby, I think you'll understand what their ROI is.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:51.519
That's I can probably give you an ROI on it, but you know, until you have two breasts and you're pumping them, don't talk to me about ROI.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.039
I love it.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, so you know what it feels like.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.480
Just such a ridiculous concept.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:01.839
Sometimes I go to people and they ask me, what's the ROI childcare or what's the RI breast pumping or whatever that I'm like, really?
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.359
Okay, tell me what's the ROI of your parking lot.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.559
Do you have one?
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.720
Have you ever done an ROI in a parking lot?
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.920
They're like, no.
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.240
Why don't you do it on a parking lot?
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.519
Because we need one.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.200
There's the answer.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.279
There's the answer.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.720
So thank you for these conversations.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:27.039
They've been riveting on we can keep going on this, but we're gonna have to start to bring this conversation to a close.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:27.680
All right.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.920
So before we do that, one just fun bonus question.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.720
So, how did you and your husband meet?
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.599
We met in a pool party in Dallas.
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:44.480
And I was a friend of mine, Michael England, had a beautiful home, and he was so really great.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:52.319
So I wore my best beetle, my little beaded necklace, and my tan and cool sunglasses, and in the pool.
00:27:52.480 --> 00:28:04.799
And then I remember this little girl walks onto the deck, kind of in the door, and then uh this guy walks behind her, and I was like, Ugh, like the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:06.400
I don't know what just something about him.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.200
And I turned to my friend and I said, I don't know who that is.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.599
He's got a baby, but I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with him.
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.319
I don't know.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.599
So he really didn't have a choice because I had picked him.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:22.079
So I stalked him, I went to restaurants that he ate at.
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:30.000
I swam at the place he was a coach until he finally, you know, we finally got a kiss and we spent the rest of our lives together.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.720
So I so yeah, you know, I knew he had a boyfriend.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.880
I never that person, I'm not like a homewrecker, but I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.119
He's gonna marry this guy.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.200
You're just a little thing in the way, a little candy from a baby on this part.
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.759
So and the boyfriend wasn't being that nice to him anyway.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:49.359
So I said, you're not treat him right.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.599
I'm gonna treat him really good for investors life.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:57.440
So I um Dean, there's a there's a there's a little serial killer in that there, that story.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:01.279
I mean, if you're talking about talking, I know I'm joking.
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:01.759
I'm joking.
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.759
Yeah, I know, I but I know, I knew.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:05.359
I mean, when you know, you know.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:11.279
That is very true, and I'm so glad that that happened, and that's just beautiful.
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:11.839
Okay.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.400
So by the way, I have a video of it.
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.240
Oh yeah.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:25.920
Three years ago, this is 26 years ago, 27 years ago, three years ago, a friend of mine said, Hey, you might want to see this video, and it's a video over my shoulder.
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.799
Someone in the pool was videoing the moment when Mark walked on the pool from my eyes.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:36.799
So I had the video of the moment I first laid eyes on the guy I married for the rest of my life.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.039
Who has that n not many.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.039
Well, that is absolutely beautiful.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.279
Thank you, Dean, for sharing that part of yourself.
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:52.799
So as we bring this conversation to the close, what is the one thing you would want every listener to do this week to help one person know that they belong anywhere?
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:59.359
Well, I think the best way to show someone that you're near or whatever is just say, what are you up to?
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:01.039
What are you up to?
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:02.960
Then they'll share look what they're up to.
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:08.000
I'd like shows that you give a dang and then you listen and you hear them repeat about it.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.079
People do want to share with you what they're up to.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:16.079
It's a really simple question, and you don't have to say where you're from or what your job is or anything like that.
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:18.160
It's like, hey, I'm Dean, what you up to?
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.160
And then they'll show you what they're up to.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:24.720
I'm I'm working on this class, I'm doing this, I'm picking out my kids, or whatever.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.119
Find the person no one's talking to.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.799
And uh, I'll tell you something.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:34.160
This is the greatest moment I've ever experienced in terms of helping people feel belonging or unseen.
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:40.720
A friend of mine that I met recently, she works for an organization called AHA in Santa Barbara.
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:52.079
AHA finds the kids that are ignored, unseen, awkward, shy, and they're nominated by their schools because they have issues with, you know, social issues.
00:30:52.160 --> 00:31:07.680
And for 12 weeks, they teach them self-confidence, they teach them how to handle situations like that, how to speak in public, and they all pick a song and they go to the largest theater in Santa Barbara and sing with a full music thing.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:17.279
So we're told in the beginning, okay, they all sang this and they're gonna sing, they're working so hard and they're scared, and it's gonna be the the bird they're gonna give you their best.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.920
Every single one we gave a standing ovation.
00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:24.720
Every single one at the end of it, just massive applause because it was so sweet.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:39.200
They weren't perfect, but what it did for them, like the guy that came out who struggled to stand, and then I said, You can do this, and then he just shuffled and sang somewhere over the rainbow, the Hawaiian version, like this.
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:47.680
And then he stopped and the cow jumped to their feet and plotted, and he just stood there frozen and just cried.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:51.759
Talk about people for the first time, that's what they said.
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:56.240
We just want them to feel like they belong, even when they sing a little off key.
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:07.359
Yeah, it was one of the most beautiful kind things I've ever seen of a community picking the people that are not seen, the ones that are bullied, the ones that are kind of odd.
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:14.400
You're not odd, you're you in your special, and everyone in this room is applauding you for it.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.359
Absolutely.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:21.119
Everybody needs a reminder that their bold, authentic self is welcomed, valued, and loved, and that they belong here.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.920
So that is just absolutely beautiful.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.519
Thank you for sharing what that organization is doing and then the work that they're doing.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:36.960
So, Dean, you've spent your career proving that technology can serve the human instead of replacing it, and you are busy writing a different ending to the story everyone fears.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:38.559
However, this is your moment.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:46.880
No culture operating system, no CHRO title, no CEO title, no best-selling book, just you finish the sentence that closes our show.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.960
I know I belong when.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:56.799
Then I feel like I belong.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:01.680
If I'm the only one in the room who feels like I belong, I don't feel like I belong in that place, in that space.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.240
When I'm in a space where everyone feels like I belong, I'm like, that's a place I want to belong to, and I know I belong to it.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.960
Then that's I'm good with that.
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.759
As always, putting others before yourself.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.440
This is classic Dean.
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:20.720
So I truly appreciate you being here and being a guest on this show.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.400
Thank you so, so much.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.759
Christopher, thank you.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.359
Thanks for making the space for that.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.400
And so, anyhow, yeah, I've shared a few things no one's heard before, so you got got some things out of me.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.559
So yeah, it's great.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.000
Absolutely great.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:34.960
Thank you so much.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:35.759
Yeah.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:43.440
This has been a great reminder that belonging is not a destination, it is a practice, and it starts with listening.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:57.759
Friends, if this episode challenged you to move outside your comfort zone, please follow our show and give us that five-star review you know you want to give, and add a comment about what you will do to champion a culture of belonging.
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:05.519
These actions will help to amplify the message to others so they too can find their own moment of belonging.
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:25.280
Whether it is navigating the complexities of workplace culture, finding acceptance in a new school, building trust in a local community, or forging identities within our own families, these stories reflect the raw, honest, and unfiltered journeys each of us take every day.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.440
And we want to hear from you.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.239
Finish the sentence, I know I belong when, and send us a voice note.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.920
Your story could open a future episode.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.320
Thank you for listening.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:43.280
Know that your bold, authentic self is welcomed, valued, and loved.
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:48.239
And until next time, remember, you belong here.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.759
The longing is bigger than the workplace, and Dean's life shows why.
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:11.519
His story connects the courage to come out, the work of building inclusive cultures, and the quiet systems that tell people they are wanted.
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This episode is for anyone working out who they are and where they add value.
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Hello friends, and welcome to I Know I Belong Len, an innovation, unbiased production where bold voices, curious stories, and authentic impact amplify knowing that you are invited, seen, heard, and needed.
00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:45.359
Our conversations go from the boardrooms to the break rooms, from the sidewalks to our living rooms, from our relationships to ourselves.
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We explore the full spectrum of belonging, the joy of being seen, the pain of being left out, and the courage it takes to build spaces where every identity is welcomed, valued, and loved.
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We also hold space for each of our unique identities to joyfully prosper and thrive.
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I am your host, Christopher Bylone, someone who believes knowing you belong is a birthright.
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Everyone says the same thing about artificial intelligence.
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It's coming for the jobs.
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Fewer people, colder teams, culture flattened into a dashboard no one opens.
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Our guests took a look at that exact technology and asked the question that no one was asking.
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What if AI could protect jobs rather than erasing them?
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What if it could make culture more human, not less?
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Meet Dean Carter.
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For more than 25 years, Dean has been one of the most respected people leaders in the country.
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He has served as chief human resources officer four separate times, at Fossil, at Patagonia, at Sears and Kmart, and at Guild.
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Along the way, his HR teams won national recognition for reinventing the future of work.
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He helped write the Fields Playbook in one of the most direct ways possible.
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His book, Employee Experience Design, How to Co-Create Work Where People and Organizations Thrive, became an Amazon number one bestseller.
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He has also served as a board of director for public and private companies, including Cornerstone on Demand and Griffith Foods.
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Then he did one of the few things veteran HR leaders ever do.
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He became a founder.
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And still is his first role as chief executive, and the mission is bold.
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He calls it the world's first culture operating system, an AI native platform that helps organizations see, measure, and improve culture every day, in real time and in the flow of actual work.
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His thesis cuts against the moment we are all in.
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He believes in regenerative HR, he believes in human-first AI, and believes technology can save the jobs everyone else is rushing to cut out.
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And here is the detail worth reviewing twice.
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His black lab blue was a gift from Julia Roberts.
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Dean has shared a stage with Michelle Obama and Oprah Winfrey, and he still will tell you with a serious face, he can make the most fabulous pancakes.
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The story we keep hearing about AI ends with fewer people in the room, less what made work worth doing.
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Dean Carter is busy rewriting a different ending, one where the technology serves the human and the human still belongs.
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Dean Carter, welcome to I know I belong when.
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Christopher.
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Thank you so much for that introduction.
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I I uh the founder found me, so I just want to make sure I recognize Hamewat.
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He built this runner all thing.
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And uh I think he may have made it for me that I didn't know him in another universe.
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He's like, I'm gonna make this thing that is gonna be so perfect for Dean to run.
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And he did put it out into the world in terms of like, I built this, like I'm looking for someone to run it, and my name kept coming up, and like, you need to talk to Dean Carter.
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And so, yeah, I'm delighted to bring this to market.
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If I hadn't invented, I sure would have tried.
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Well, wonderful.
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Thank you for that correction.
00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:12.319
And talk about sponsorship at its finest.
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That somebody was thinking about who was going to run their company, and people kept mentioning your name to that person, and then finally they listened and said, Dean, come on board.
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So that is sponsorship at its finest.
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So, Dean, let's get into this conversation.
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You have spent more than 25 years, and yes, you have spent more than 25 years inside human resources, and now you lead an AI company built to save jobs rather than cut them across every role.
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What is the one belief about people and work that has never moved for you?
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When I formed this belief, it was more like leave things better than you find them, is just a motto of mine.
00:04:50.480 --> 00:05:03.279
And then it evolved when I went to Patagonia to a little bit more deeper concept because Patagonia shifted its purpose from basically do no unnecessary harm to save the home planet.
00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:04.399
That's very different.
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.839
Like building things that only the harm planet a little bit to saving it.
00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:21.360
And that's when Patagonia decided to move and shift from a predominantly apparel company, which was you know, to some ways unhelpingly extractive to build the products that we're building to agriculture company.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.319
And you'll see Patagonia becoming more of a food company.
00:05:24.399 --> 00:05:31.759
And the reason is because if the whole world went to regenerative agriculture practices, then we would not just stop climate change, we'd reverse it.
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And regenerative ag means, you know, traditional ag like traditional HR is highly extractive.
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It's like how much can you take on and squeeze out of human beings in a possible year?
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:41.279
Right.
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And at the end of the year, you know, you say thank you, give it a reward of 3.5, and then you and then they'll leave depleted, and then you try to figure out what to do with them, and you invest a bunch of money in fertilizers, pesticides, benefits, and health care.
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And so trying to fix them.
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So that's kind of what I came up with is this a sentence, and it's in the book, and that is for what I put into my work, I believe the company gives back equal or greater value to my life.
00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.560
And I think fundamentally that's the thing that we need to do.
00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:14.160
It's not like the company has to give a lot and be ping-pong tibles and snacks.
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I'm saying for what I put into my work, I believe the company should crack equal or greater value to my life.
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:32.319
It's not saying, you know, I need to have an amazing experience since all the companies saying, I'm gonna put my stuff in, but just make it an equal and mutual value and arrangement.
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And so if the company is so incredible that they are able to give a little bit more value than you put in, then you've hit the holy grail, they'll never leave.
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And they'll walk walk up steps two, three, four steps at a time.
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But if you just get to a mutual thing and think they feel like that feels fair.
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So that's what I do.
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I talk a lot about this concept, it's important to me.
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I design programs and benefits around it and systems around that concept.
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And every single time I get a chance to speak, I I say the that sentence, Well, what happened to tomorrow?
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I believe the company puts spec equal or greater value to my life.
00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:23.839
Yeah, and I think, you know, for me, it's thinking about the kid who grew up on the farm as an agriculture major, somebody who understands about how you treat the earth is how it's going to grow vegetables for you.
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:29.680
So I think it's really powerful that you were at Patagonia at a time when it started to make that transition.
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I think about how, you know, even today, thinking about what I put in is what I'm gonna get out of my work.
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As a solarpreneur, I'm thinking about, yeah, I'm I'm putting in a lot of work every day.
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And what am I giving back to myself to make sure that I'm staying whole?
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I think that that's really powerful that people need to sit with, you know, the statement really can work in any size organization from a solarpreneur to, you know, a 10,000 employee organization.
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I think it just it really works.
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For humans too.
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I mean, you got to think about you what you're putting in, you know.
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If you're putting out more than you put in, you're you're you're not gonna last very long.
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You know, right, your cup's gonna run dry.
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So you gotta make sure you operate with a full cup, right?
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Yeah, always.
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And I try to keep my baseline pretty high because I know that things are gonna happen in life.
00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:24.000
And so knowing that, you know, things are gonna happen, this is gonna happen.
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At least I don't start here and go to here.
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So I try to keep my baseline always as high as possible for the moment that I'm in, just in case.
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And things have happened for sure.
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You know, cancer, it's just other things in life.
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That's so my baseline was high enough.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.559
So the one here actually wasn't way, way down here.
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It was kind of up to this point.
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I get I get it.
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I truly get it.
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As somebody who had cancer, I totally understand it.
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So heal you on that one.
00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:57.440
So one of the things that we talk about on the show is we love to talk about somebody's name.
00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:58.879
I am a stickler for names.
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I'm always Christopher, never Chris.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:07.279
So Dean Carter, it's an unassuming name that has walked into boardrooms most people will never reach.
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A name does not earn that.
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The person does.
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So tell us who named you and what were they hoping you would become?
00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:16.799
Um, my parents name me.
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My my dad's middle name is Dean.
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So I'm named after my dad and his name, so I carry that.
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I love this name.
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I think it's a it's the reason I do, it's a cool name because it's it's not normal, but everyone knows it.
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Most crowds that get to say, hi, this is Dean.
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Or, you know, it's oh, I need to talk to Dean.
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They know exactly the one person you know to go to and talk to.
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They're like four in Santa Barbara, which we've had the limit.
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We have like a dean packed, only four in this town, and so anyone else has to get approval from the other deans.
00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:53.759
And I uh so it's enough where you can go to a gas station to have your name on the little license plate and the keychain.
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So I that's good enough for me.
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But it's uh I do get comments about it.
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It's a cool name, like Dean Carter, and it's it's easy to spell, but I really embrace my name.
00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.519
I do sometimes get like that's a cool name, like it sounds like a movie star.
00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:08.240
Are you a movie star?
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:11.200
I'm like, no, I'm not a movie star, but somehow I got a cool name.
00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:15.679
My parents all named a single cell board saying, Dean, Brett, Chad, Cole.
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:17.840
So I think they could just yell it across the pasture.
00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:18.960
Can you believe?
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:22.159
And then it had to arrive, you know, Dean Eric.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:27.679
So I think it was named so an easy name to yell it out in a way, but I would not change my name.
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:29.600
I think it was a like a gift.
00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:32.720
It's easy to spell, easy to remember, and it's unique.
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And I I own that name.
00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:35.759
That's awesome.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:36.399
Thank you for that.
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:37.200
Yeah, it is.
00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:38.879
It does sound like a movie star name.
00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.639
So maybe one day, you never know.
00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:46.240
That might be a title that you could add to the bio, you know, so one can keep dreaming.
00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:51.519
So here's what the if you Google me, the first name that comes up is Dean Carter.
00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:55.440
And by the way, in Wikipedia, that's a serial killer and it's not me.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.000
So good to know.
00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:59.120
Good to know, friend.
00:10:59.279 --> 00:10:59.679
Good to know.
00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.440
On the book, I had to put the name Dean E.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:09.600
Carter so that people, when they Googled me and for the book, they wouldn't come up with a serial killer, it'd be my name.
00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:11.120
So there's only a one Dean E.
00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:11.679
Carter.
00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.120
So you can't, if you Google Dean E.
00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.200
Carter on Amazon, you'll get to write to my book.
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:21.279
If you view Dean Carter, you'll get like an old 1950s rock and roll guy or a serial killer.
00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.919
So those are, yeah, so that's why I a lot of times I put Dean E.
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:32.240
Carter, which separates me from the serial killer and the single hit wonder rock star Dean Carter.
00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:35.519
Good to know, good to know.
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:42.399
We might need to make that part of the show notes so that people can find the exact the right person.
00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:46.320
Don't want people to get confused who's coming on the I Know I've a long one podcast.
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:51.120
My personal goal in life is to get rate higher than the serial killer on the Google search.
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Like if I can get Well, still not there.
00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:54.159
Still not there.
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:58.879
Well, hopefully this show will add one more little uh chink in that goal.
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:00.000
So, okay.
00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.879
So let's talk about the moment that you knew you belonged.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:04.720
Take us to a specific moment.
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:12.000
It might be early, like your HR days at ProVision, or it might be a boardroom decades later.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:17.120
Where were you and what made that land for you that you knew you belonged there?
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:27.200
There was, I was at Pearl Vision, and uh this was in Texas early in my career, and it's such a distant memory for most people don't even know this existed.
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:33.679
But the sodomy laws were in place, and what that meant is if you were gay, then you got put in prison.
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:36.480
Wasn't jail, you you got put in prison.
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.519
And so being out was dangerous.
00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:43.279
You didn't lose your job, you lost everything, you lost your life.
00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:45.519
It was it was a scary thing.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:49.840
So coming out wasn't just difficult, it was dangerous.
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:50.399
Yes.
00:12:50.639 --> 00:13:01.440
So at Provision, you know, I put up pictures of girls on, you know, in the thing, or I didn't talk about you know, boyfriends or anything like that, but I would go on dates and people wonder.
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:10.559
Anyhow, somehow I got around, of course, because I didn't hide it necessarily, but I didn't go out of my way.
00:13:10.879 --> 00:13:15.440
And so someone started saying, you know, Dean Carter's gay and he shouldn't be here.
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:22.799
He's, you know, it's so immoral, he's a sodomist, it's against the law, he's breaking law by being here and he doesn't belong here.
00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:31.200
So I went to the head of HR's office, Roy Wilson, and I said, Roy, a lot of people are talking about this, and it's true.
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:32.799
And I'm tired of lying.
00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:39.600
I'm tired of like faking it, I'm tired of turning my pictures over because lies breed lies, and I just I'm tired of it.
00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.840
And so if this place has a hard time with this, then I'm gonna find another place.
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:49.200
I seem to be seem to be getting promoted every 18 months, and I'm doing a darn good job around here.
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:52.000
But if that's okay, I'll go somewhere else, I'll find somewhere else to work.
00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.799
And I just wouldn't let you know that it's true, and I just need to let you know that.
00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.240
And he said, Oh my gosh, Dean, that's terrible.
00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:02.320
You are so doing such good work here.
00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.480
I can't believe someone said that about you.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:10.879
You're so safe, you're so okay, and you have a long and wonderful career here at Pearl Vision.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:18.080
As long as I'm here, as long as anyone here, no one in the company that I know of, you know, you are so safe here.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:23.440
And uh that's when I knew I belonged, and I could no longer hide.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:32.879
And I also wanted to be head of HR that day, so that someday when I sit in this seat, I make sure everyone feels like they belong.
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:34.000
Like well.
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.639
What what a powerful story, and thank you for that vulnerability.
00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:42.000
I do truly appreciate it as a fellow gay man.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:43.200
I understand.
00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:57.360
I also know that I grew up in a time where a lot of those sodomy laws were not on the books, and a lot of the work that don't want to date you, but your generation did to change those things.
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:59.200
And so thank you for that.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.720
You know, we still have a lot of work to do.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:02.159
We still have a lot of work to do.
00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:07.759
You know, at least in the United States, we're not gonna go to jail and be put in prison.
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.960
Yeah, at least right now.
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:10.480
At least in the moment.
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.559
At least in the moment, at least in the moment.
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.159
Um so thank you, and thank you for that vulnerability.
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:27.200
And what a recognition that somebody saw the value you brought to the organization and wanted to make sure that you knew that not just your job was safe, but your life was safe.
00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:30.399
It is, and you know, there's a bit uh irony in that story.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:37.919
The person I remember specifically, I won't say her name, but I know exactly the person who was spreading fat around and you know being the main champion.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.399
A year later, I don't know what she did, but she got fired and I got her job.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.759
Well, ain't that the icing on the cake?
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.639
I didn't cause that, but I did end up replacing her.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.720
Yeah, she ended up getting Lego and uh they said, so thank you, Dean.
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:55.679
Appreciate that.
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:57.120
I ended up that's karma.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:57.840
That's karma.
00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.360
You know, that's that is karma.
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:01.120
That is karma finished.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.080
It's like, oh, you know that A's are gonna take your job.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:05.519
Dean Carter might.
00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:11.360
Well, if she's listening, so sorry.
00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:17.440
But not uh alrighty, so what did that change for you?
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:19.600
Like how did you show up in rooms after that?
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.960
Like it has to been a weight was lifted off your shoulders.
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:24.559
Well, it was a big weight.
00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.320
I could be safe at work and not have to worry about losing my job, which is a big deal.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:34.879
So losing your ability to pay for rent and life and things, and so and I was pretty confident I'd find another job.
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:38.240
You know, I just like and I could get through.
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:43.120
But I did it did change get my level of confidence that he had my back.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:45.919
And I really tried to do that whenever I work.
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:49.279
I'm probably not you know perfect at it, but I really tried that.
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:54.000
And then it's when I really picked up the concept of um the poem First They Came.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:17:06.240
I have it on my wall, just a reminder, you know, first they came for the communists, then they came for this group, and then then it came for this group, and then they came for me, and there's no one else to speak up for me.
00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:22.240
But I just I feel like I have to always speak up for the person in the room that it doesn't feel like they belong, because it's just the right thing to do, and and always know that you know no one can escape not feeling like they belong in a situation.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.519
And so it just doesn't feel good to do it, and I make sure everyone feels like they do.
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.200
I I appreciate that.
00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:33.759
So now this wouldn't be the I Know I Belong one podcast if we also didn't talk about the dark side of belonging, the non-belonging.
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.799
And so it could be that story that you just shared and expand on it, or it could be something completely different.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:44.480
But was there a moment when you truly questioned if you belong someplace?
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.920
And what was that feeling for you and how did you work through it?
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.559
You know, I never felt like I belonged to the playground.
00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:52.000
I hated it so much.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:54.640
I got chased and bullied and beat up.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:59.759
I never got picked for any of the sports because I was small and I hid.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:01.759
I actually tried to be invisible.
00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:16.480
I would hide behind trees, I would hide behind teachers, I would do everything I could to not go to recess because I knew it was I would be so shunned or you know, called names, or I'm kindergarten.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.319
I don't understand these things, you know.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.559
When you call called names, you're like, I don't even know that concept.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.960
You're calling me that, and I don't even know what that means.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:29.440
And so that was my first experience with you know hiding.
00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:33.759
And that's because I be I became really good friends with the teachers because they would protect me.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.200
So I was a cute little kid.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:43.599
Yes, and so I took advantage of my little cuteness and to stay right next to the teacher, and so no one would beat me up if I stood next to the teacher.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.319
Then um, in later time, it's this was the most ironic one though.
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:56.160
It was at a well-known company that I worked for that really is a promoter to some extent of you know really progressive values.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:06.799
And there's a moment when things started to shift, and I went to the LGBTQ resource group meeting, and they said, Why are you here?
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:09.680
Well, I think that's obvious why I'm here.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.240
And they said, No, you can't be in the room.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.359
I'm like, why?
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:19.279
They said, because you're a cis gendered, straight passing gay white male and you're loaded with privilege.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.119
I was like, What?
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.559
To repeat that?
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.079
You're a cis gendered, straight passing gay white male.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.079
I'm like, I I don't even know how to respond to that.
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.440
I don't even I don't either I don't even want to be in this room anymore.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:37.440
Because if that bothers you, then I'm a cis gendered, straight passing, gay white male.
00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:39.759
By way, that's loaded with like all sorts of stuff.
00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:41.599
I don't even know what straight passing means.
00:19:41.839 --> 00:19:48.640
You know, I didn't ever think about me as cis or whatever gendered, but I just I I I I don't want to belong in this group.
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:59.200
But there's a person I felt like the group that I would belong to the most, that I would be accepted the most, was the group that kicked me out the most uh intensely.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:00.559
It wasn't negotiable.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.079
Wasn't negotiable.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:13.200
I'm I'm still stuck on the straight passing because I jokingly say to people, if you can't figure out that I'm gay within the first five minutes of talking to me, I don't need to come out to you.
00:20:13.440 --> 00:20:13.759
Right?
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.640
Like yeah, the people figure these things out.
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:19.680
There's a lot of things they can do, but the that's the people who figure them out.
00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:26.000
But it there was like a, you know, this is like, you know, podcasty voice in it, but I never said it out loud.
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.720
But if they're listening now to this podcast, this is what I want to say.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:33.200
You want to know how gay I am?
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:43.839
Sister to try passing gay white male, back the sodomy laws, when you get beat up and you get to the bar, then I started fighting for rights for the police not to beat you up in the bars and got rid of the sodomy laws.
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:54.720
And the one who fought for your right to marry, and I was there and holding hands of all the people when your friends are dying of AIDS, and I fought to make sure that you have the health care that you need to keep you alive.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:00.960
Everything you have for your right to say that I am a sistered, straight passing gay white male, that I can't come to the room.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:04.799
I fought for every one of you in this room.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:08.799
That is how gay I am.
00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:14.720
That I've never said that out loud, but I just was a moment where like, really?
00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.759
You know, you're the one with privilege that I've set for you.
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:25.440
So you're calling me out, and I get all the privilege that comes with white and male and all these things.
00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:31.680
I get that, but to call it out and to exclude me for it in my own community was the ultimate insult.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.240
And so you can tell this raw for me.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:35.359
Yeah.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:38.079
Hey, look, we're about raw conversations.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.480
So if you want to raw just that's very raw.
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:40.880
Yeah.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.519
Thank you.
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:46.799
And what I would just say is like this is something that we we struggle with in our own community.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:54.319
We are advocating for inclusion, yet we are probably one of the most exclusive groups that there is out there, right?
00:21:54.480 --> 00:22:09.680
I mean, how clicky we are, not to get in all to the terminology that we use, but like we Put people in boxes and labels, and you're over there, and we're over here, and you go to this week at P Town, and you go to that week at P Town, and never the two communities shall cross.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:10.960
Like, I totally get it.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:13.119
And so that's just wowing to me.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:14.480
So thank you for that.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:26.000
So one, you have taken all of those moments and just uh use them as fuel to sustain your life, your career, just who you are as dean.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:40.799
And so how do you, you as somebody who has spent a career making work a place where people know that they belong, tell us about a specific thing you do, a ritual or habit that makes sure that other people know that they belong in the room?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.119
Well, I don't always do it well, you know, but I'm always trying to get better.
00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:48.640
So I mean, there's moments when I'm like, ooh, I didn't do that so great.
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:59.279
But I do try to acknowledge everyone and acknowledge their situation, understand potentially the challenges that they're bringing to the room and why they might not feel like they belong.
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.039
So I try to go out of my way.
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:06.319
I I usually try to find the person in the room that isn't with anybody else, like the quiet person.
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:09.519
It's easy to talk to all the noisy and loud people like that.
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:14.960
And I but I I really do find the person in the back of the room who's like, hey, you know, what's up?
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:15.839
Who are you?
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:17.920
And so I try to do that.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.000
It's important to me because I know what it was like to be that other person that no one spoke to.
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.559
And so I try to make I mean I have work to do.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:34.880
There's a moment when the company I work for, when you're having a meeting, it gives you a little information about your behavior at the end of the meeting.
00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:36.960
And I got really low score on inclusion.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.799
I'm like, but I push it.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:41.119
Inclusion.
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.279
And and it I mean, it just gives you a low score, it just means you have an opportunity to be better.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:46.880
That's not like a punishment thing.
00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:52.400
But and it's just that there were, you know, you paid attention to three people in the room, and there are two people in the room you didn't even acknowledge.
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.039
And they probably have something really valuable to say.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.720
And uh and so the next time you meet, might want to consider that.
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.680
So the next time we did call on both of those people first.
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:07.759
And turns out that the person that I called on first is brilliant, a great UX designer.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.839
And I call on this person typically first now, because we start with UX and then we go through the other things.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:18.480
So I spend a lot of time with that person because they're just really, really brilliant.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:22.559
So anyhow, this one time when I messed it up recently, you don't always get it right.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:23.920
But that's okay.
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:28.559
It's okay because you're gonna get it wrong, and then what you do is you you try to make it right.
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.200
If you get it wrong and you just go, so what?
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.160
Then that's a problem.
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:35.599
If you get it wrong and you work to fix it very fast, then I think that's okay.
00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:37.839
Well, I mean, we're human, we're gonna make mistakes.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:39.759
And that's part of the recovery.
00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:48.559
It's the it's the recovery, it's one of the things that I talk to people about is like, look, like sometimes your actions are gonna be biased, and that's human, right?
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:52.480
But however, it is the recovery that you're doing.
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:53.839
How are you making it right?
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.400
The not just the apology, but the action, right?
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:07.039
What's the atonement that you're doing so that you make sure that one, you never do it again, but make sure that people understand that you've actually listened and are not just trying, but doing better.
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:12.880
There's um there are the like ways of making people belong you aren't even just calling them out in the room.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:15.359
Just like the systems and processes and companies.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:28.799
Like um at Patagonia, one of the things that they do is when a woman is nursing, they pay for the woman, the baby, and a traveling companion to travel with them so that she can continue nursing.
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:37.920
Um what happens is if you're nursing and pumping, you it's very difficult to cure your equipment and the baby expensive to go over.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:55.039
See, so usually since you no longer belong because you're a nursing mother, they send someone else in your place because you can't make it because you need to stay home and pump, or you stop pumping, or you take breast milk with you, or you have to pump it out before you know pump it and then pour it out before you get on the airplane.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.000
All these things.
00:25:56.160 --> 00:26:05.279
So by that little thing, I saying we're gonna pay for a traveling companion for you so that you can continue breastfeeding your baby that you want to and still do great work.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:08.720
Just that single thing says, as a working mom, I belong.
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:09.519
Yes.
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:11.599
I've never heard that before, Dean.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.359
And wow, like just wow, that's just amazing.
00:26:15.599 --> 00:26:16.720
You don't have to say anything.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:17.759
Just like you belong.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:19.279
Of course, we're gonna set this up for you.
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:20.240
You belong in that room.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.960
You're smart, you're the best person to be in that room.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:24.640
Of course we're gonna do this.
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:32.480
I got what when I went to another company and implemented that, I got a note from the CFO who said, Um, could you grab me an ROI for that?
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.359
Could you give me the ROI for that?
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:43.519
And I said, Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but someday when you breast pump and you have a baby, I think you'll understand what their ROI is.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:51.519
That's I can probably give you an ROI on it, but you know, until you have two breasts and you're pumping them, don't talk to me about ROI.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:53.039
I love it.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:54.720
Yeah, so you know what it feels like.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:56.480
Just such a ridiculous concept.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:01.839
Sometimes I go to people and they ask me, what's the ROI childcare or what's the RI breast pumping or whatever that I'm like, really?
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.359
Okay, tell me what's the ROI of your parking lot.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:06.559
Do you have one?
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:08.720
Have you ever done an ROI in a parking lot?
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:09.920
They're like, no.
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.240
Why don't you do it on a parking lot?
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.519
Because we need one.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.200
There's the answer.
00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:17.279
There's the answer.
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:20.720
So thank you for these conversations.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:27.039
They've been riveting on we can keep going on this, but we're gonna have to start to bring this conversation to a close.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:27.680
All right.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:31.920
So before we do that, one just fun bonus question.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.720
So, how did you and your husband meet?
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:39.599
We met in a pool party in Dallas.
00:27:39.920 --> 00:27:44.480
And I was a friend of mine, Michael England, had a beautiful home, and he was so really great.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:52.319
So I wore my best beetle, my little beaded necklace, and my tan and cool sunglasses, and in the pool.
00:27:52.480 --> 00:28:04.799
And then I remember this little girl walks onto the deck, kind of in the door, and then uh this guy walks behind her, and I was like, Ugh, like the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:06.400
I don't know what just something about him.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.200
And I turned to my friend and I said, I don't know who that is.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:13.599
He's got a baby, but I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with him.
00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:14.319
I don't know.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.599
So he really didn't have a choice because I had picked him.
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:22.079
So I stalked him, I went to restaurants that he ate at.
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:30.000
I swam at the place he was a coach until he finally, you know, we finally got a kiss and we spent the rest of our lives together.
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.720
So I so yeah, you know, I knew he had a boyfriend.
00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:38.880
I never that person, I'm not like a homewrecker, but I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry.
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.119
He's gonna marry this guy.
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.200
You're just a little thing in the way, a little candy from a baby on this part.
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:47.759
So and the boyfriend wasn't being that nice to him anyway.
00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:49.359
So I said, you're not treat him right.
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.599
I'm gonna treat him really good for investors life.
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:57.440
So I um Dean, there's a there's a there's a little serial killer in that there, that story.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:01.279
I mean, if you're talking about talking, I know I'm joking.
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:01.759
I'm joking.
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.759
Yeah, I know, I but I know, I knew.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:05.359
I mean, when you know, you know.
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:11.279
That is very true, and I'm so glad that that happened, and that's just beautiful.
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:11.839
Okay.
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:14.400
So by the way, I have a video of it.
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.240
Oh yeah.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:25.920
Three years ago, this is 26 years ago, 27 years ago, three years ago, a friend of mine said, Hey, you might want to see this video, and it's a video over my shoulder.
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.799
Someone in the pool was videoing the moment when Mark walked on the pool from my eyes.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:36.799
So I had the video of the moment I first laid eyes on the guy I married for the rest of my life.
00:29:37.119 --> 00:29:39.039
Who has that n not many.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:41.039
Well, that is absolutely beautiful.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.279
Thank you, Dean, for sharing that part of yourself.
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:52.799
So as we bring this conversation to the close, what is the one thing you would want every listener to do this week to help one person know that they belong anywhere?
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:59.359
Well, I think the best way to show someone that you're near or whatever is just say, what are you up to?
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:01.039
What are you up to?
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:02.960
Then they'll share look what they're up to.
00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:08.000
I'd like shows that you give a dang and then you listen and you hear them repeat about it.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:10.079
People do want to share with you what they're up to.
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:16.079
It's a really simple question, and you don't have to say where you're from or what your job is or anything like that.
00:30:16.160 --> 00:30:18.160
It's like, hey, I'm Dean, what you up to?
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:20.160
And then they'll show you what they're up to.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:24.720
I'm I'm working on this class, I'm doing this, I'm picking out my kids, or whatever.
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.119
Find the person no one's talking to.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:28.799
And uh, I'll tell you something.
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:34.160
This is the greatest moment I've ever experienced in terms of helping people feel belonging or unseen.
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A friend of mine that I met recently, she works for an organization called AHA in Santa Barbara.
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AHA finds the kids that are ignored, unseen, awkward, shy, and they're nominated by their schools because they have issues with, you know, social issues.
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And for 12 weeks, they teach them self-confidence, they teach them how to handle situations like that, how to speak in public, and they all pick a song and they go to the largest theater in Santa Barbara and sing with a full music thing.
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:17.279
So we're told in the beginning, okay, they all sang this and they're gonna sing, they're working so hard and they're scared, and it's gonna be the the bird they're gonna give you their best.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.920
Every single one we gave a standing ovation.
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Every single one at the end of it, just massive applause because it was so sweet.
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They weren't perfect, but what it did for them, like the guy that came out who struggled to stand, and then I said, You can do this, and then he just shuffled and sang somewhere over the rainbow, the Hawaiian version, like this.
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:47.680
And then he stopped and the cow jumped to their feet and plotted, and he just stood there frozen and just cried.
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:51.759
Talk about people for the first time, that's what they said.
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We just want them to feel like they belong, even when they sing a little off key.
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:07.359
Yeah, it was one of the most beautiful kind things I've ever seen of a community picking the people that are not seen, the ones that are bullied, the ones that are kind of odd.
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You're not odd, you're you in your special, and everyone in this room is applauding you for it.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:15.359
Absolutely.
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Everybody needs a reminder that their bold, authentic self is welcomed, valued, and loved, and that they belong here.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:23.920
So that is just absolutely beautiful.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:27.519
Thank you for sharing what that organization is doing and then the work that they're doing.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:36.960
So, Dean, you've spent your career proving that technology can serve the human instead of replacing it, and you are busy writing a different ending to the story everyone fears.
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:38.559
However, this is your moment.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:46.880
No culture operating system, no CHRO title, no CEO title, no best-selling book, just you finish the sentence that closes our show.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:48.960
I know I belong when.
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:56.799
Then I feel like I belong.
00:32:56.880 --> 00:33:01.680
If I'm the only one in the room who feels like I belong, I don't feel like I belong in that place, in that space.
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When I'm in a space where everyone feels like I belong, I'm like, that's a place I want to belong to, and I know I belong to it.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:10.960
Then that's I'm good with that.
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.759
As always, putting others before yourself.
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.440
This is classic Dean.
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So I truly appreciate you being here and being a guest on this show.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.400
Thank you so, so much.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:23.759
Christopher, thank you.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:25.359
Thanks for making the space for that.
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.400
And so, anyhow, yeah, I've shared a few things no one's heard before, so you got got some things out of me.
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.559
So yeah, it's great.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.000
Absolutely great.
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:34.960
Thank you so much.
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:35.759
Yeah.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:43.440
This has been a great reminder that belonging is not a destination, it is a practice, and it starts with listening.
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Friends, if this episode challenged you to move outside your comfort zone, please follow our show and give us that five-star review you know you want to give, and add a comment about what you will do to champion a culture of belonging.
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These actions will help to amplify the message to others so they too can find their own moment of belonging.
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Whether it is navigating the complexities of workplace culture, finding acceptance in a new school, building trust in a local community, or forging identities within our own families, these stories reflect the raw, honest, and unfiltered journeys each of us take every day.
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.440
And we want to hear from you.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:32.239
Finish the sentence, I know I belong when, and send us a voice note.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:35.920
Your story could open a future episode.
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:38.320
Thank you for listening.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:43.280
Know that your bold, authentic self is welcomed, valued, and loved.
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And until next time, remember, you belong here.
