Explaining Science for Everyone • David Pogue, award-winning science and tech journalist

David Pogue:
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For this semester's essays, I don't know how you're going to know if



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they were generated by ChatGPT or not.



Aaron - Interview:
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Yeah, I won't.



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I mean, the ship has sailed.



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It's 10 short answer questions, is my final, and it, you know, it went live



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last week and it's due on Friday and...



David Pogue:
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oh my God.



Aaron - Interview:
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Yeah, I'll have no way to know.



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Other than the hope that if you cheat in an ethics class, then



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I don't know what to tell you.



Aaron - Narration:
00:00:26
Hi, I'm Aaron Miller, and this is How to Help, a



Aaron - Narration:
00:00:31
podcast about having a life and career with meaning, integrity, and impact.



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00:00:36
This is season two, episode eight, Explaining Science for Everyone.



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This episode of How to Help is sponsored by Merit Leadership, home



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00:00:46
of The Business Ethics Field Guide.



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Thank you for all the ways that you support the podcast, especially for



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sharing it with others and for leaving positive reviews on Apple Podcasts.



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Those two things make the biggest difference in helping us to



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grow and to reach more people.



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Take a moment to consider with me all that's changed in science and



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technology over the last 20 or so years.



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It was nearly 20 years ago now that the human genome was fully



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sequenced, all 3.2 billion base pairs.



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Since that time, CRISPR technology has been developed to allow individual



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gene editing in living cells.



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Advances in medical science are saving many more lives than before.



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If you live in the US and get cancer, your chance of dying from it has declined



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by about 13% compared to 20 years ago.



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That might not seem like much, but it amounts to around 3.5 million



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extra cancer survivors since 2002.



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During that same time period, global child mortality has declined by almost half.



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Mostly thanks to improved treatments for diarrhea, malaria, measles,



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and respiratory infection.



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This means nearly 5 million more children per year are living beyond age five.



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Consider the smartphone that you might be using to listen to this podcast.



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20 years ago, this thing that fits in your pocket would've made the list of the



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five fastest super computers in the world.



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And it can do things computer scientists used to only dream of.



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It can show you every picture that you have with a dog in it.



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You can even use it to ask ChatGPT to write everything from an apology email to



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the essays for your college applications.



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Not that you should, but more on that later.



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In the last 20 years, NASA has landed not one but four rovers on



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Mars, and has even flown a drone there despite an atmosphere that's a



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hundred times thinner than Earth's.



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Scientists also have detected for the first time gravitational waves



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formed billions of years ago, like echoes from the dawn of the universe.



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It's not all rosy, of course.



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The 10 warmest years in recorded history have all happened since 2010.



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The global Covid pandemic probably killed around 14 million people, even



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with a record setting development time for a vaccine to treat it.



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Fueled in part by social media that didn't exist 20 years ago, Democrats and



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Republicans are twice as likely to view the other party as very unfavorable.



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It's easy to think that science and technology are causing serious



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problems and not just solving them.



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My guest today is the veteran science and technology journalist, David Pogue.



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He's reported on all that I mentioned and more for over two decades.



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He wrote The New York Times tech column, has hosted over 20 Nova specials for



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PBS, and is a longtime journalist with the CBS Sunday Morning program,



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winning six Emmys along the way.



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I also have to say, I feel a little self-conscious



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interviewing a seasoned journalist like yourself, and so, so if you're thinking



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in the back of your head like, oh man, what a dumb question that he just



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asked, um, feel free to point that out.



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I'm happy for any tips or pointers as we go.



David Pogue:
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Okay.



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Throw in five TED talks, around 120 books, including his



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most recent one, How to Prepare for Climate Change, and his new podcast Unsung



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Science, and his 1.2 million followers on Twitter, and you're hard pressed to



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find any science communicator with more reach or experience than David Pogue.



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He has seen, heard, and almost done it all.



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In a lot of your reporting, you've been a test subject



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or a Guinea pig, and I'm curious if you maybe had some moments that you, that had



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the biggest impact on you, for better or worse, that sort of felt most memorable.



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For both Nova and for CBS Sunday Morning, I've often



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served as the audience's stand in, you know, experiential television.



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I mean, for Nova, I joke that, you know, the basic formula for the shows we've



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done is they try to kill me on camera.



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I mean, I've been hang gliding.



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They sent me swimming with 13 foot sharks and handling them in The Bahamas.



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I mean, I rode in an Indie 500 race car with Mario Andrei.



Aaron - Interview:
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Yeah.



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And at one point, they were studying a bizarre occurrence in the



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nineties where some Army Rangers were in training in Florida and it was 65 degrees



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out and five of them died of hypothermia.



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And the army couldn't figure out how you can die when it's 65 degrees out.



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So they built this amazing environmental chamber center in Natick, Massachusetts,



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where they can study the effect of wind, weather, cold, rain, you know,



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every, every different atmospheric effect on the human body, especially



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when it's tired or carrying gear.



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And they put me through the same thing.



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They sprayed me for 15 minutes with rain, 49 degree water.



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Then they chilled the chamber to 49 degrees.



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Then they turned on 15 mile an hour wind machines to make



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sure that I was truly cold.



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Then they put a hundred pound pack on my back.



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Then they put me on the treadmill for six hours.



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Then they put a rectal thermometer into me.



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By the way, the Army apparently can't afford wireless ones.



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These are corded, rectal thermometers.



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So you have this tail trailing out.



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I mean, it was so miserable.



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It was the worst, worst experience in my life, but it made very good television.



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That was pretty memorable.



Aaron - Narration:
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The conversation about to unfold is going to cover a



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wide range of topics, but all around this idea of explaining the good



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that science and technology do in the world and where they're falling short.



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You've probably guessed that David is optimistic about what science



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can do to improve the world.



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What do you think some of the ways are that science and



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technology are improving people's lives in a way that people aren't seeing?



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You know, telling Alexa to turn on your lights or changing your thermostat from



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around the world, those are cool but they're right in front of everybody



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and it feels like there are a lot of ways, and that you've reported on



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some of these, many of these, there are a lot of ways where science or



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technology are improving people's lives in a way that they don't actually see.



David Pogue:
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Yeah, I mean, I mean, the answer is everywhere.



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I mean, everywhere.



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Every study, every experiment you know, every medicine you take, every you



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know app you run on your phone, the phone itself, all the transportation.



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We just learned last month that we can deflect an asteroid that



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might be heading our way to earth.



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I mean, everything.



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Food you eat, the clothes you wear, the internet.



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It's all science and technology.



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Every problem there is to solve boils down to science and tech.



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And, and it cracks me up that, no, it doesn't crack me up, it makes me



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sob that Americans have this sort of anti-science slant these days.



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They're, you know, people are terrified of 5G and, and vaccines



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and, you know, proven science.



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Everything you like in your life came from experimentation and study and science.



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Looking around you, you'll see what David means.



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Much of the technology you rely on every day didn't exist even just 50 years ago.



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Our lives are constantly and immeasurably improved by the hard



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work of scientists and engineers.



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So why is so much of the public instinctively skeptical



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about their accomplishments?



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Part of it is that the work they do is complex, and the truth is nuanced.



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But it's also because science needs better communicators.



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Can you talk about what it's like as a science reporter



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struggling with how you communicate that nuance, especially when you know



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better than anybody, how long you're gonna keep somebody's focus on, on



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the things that you're reporting?



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I mean, yes, nuance is a problem when you're



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communicating to the public.



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And fear is a problem.



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We naturally have a fear of the unknown, so any new technology that



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we don't understand, we condemn.



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This has gone back for, you know, centuries.



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People were afraid of the steam trains.



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People were afraid of airplanes.



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People were afraid of microwaves.



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Every new technology is terrifying because it's new and we don't understand it.



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On the nuance question, I very much feel that scientists, as opposed



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to science communicators like me, are too in love with nuance.



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They're too afraid to make bold statements.



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I feel like we, we cost ourselves decades of climate action because



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scientists have to couch everything and disclaimers and degrees of



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uncertainty and, and stuff like that.



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I mean, I get that you need to be careful and you can't make sweeping



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statements, but when pressed, you know, the scientists would probably say,



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I mean, yeah, what I said is true.



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Yes, of course there are footnotes, but what I said is mostly true.



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And right now I feel like that's not the way it goes.



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Right now, I feel like the, the certainty and the uncertainty are



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presented in equal-sized handfuls when, when new sciences presented.



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So it's, you know, it's tough because that's the way scientists are trained,



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is to make a big fuss over the possible exceptions to what they're reporting.



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But it does mean that action is slower to come.



Aaron - Narration:
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Part of the communication problem in science and



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technology is also that we've learned to be skeptical because big trumpeted



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advances don't always pan out as promised.



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Put another way, where are the fusion-powered, autonomous,



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flying cars that we've been expecting since we were kids?



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00:10:43
Having observed firsthand all the things that you



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00:10:46
have, what lessons should we take from the fads that sometimes get built up



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around science versus the, the real hard day-to-day grind of incredible



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science that diverts asteroids?



David Pogue:
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I mean, first of all, you have to question who's



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doing the reporting and why.



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Is there, is there a motive?



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00:11:04
You know, in, in my tech reporting days, we would hear overwhelming



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numbers of headlines about 3D printers that everyone would have



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a 3D printer next to the toaster.



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When the door needed a new hinge, we'd 3D printed it.



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When a button would fall off our sweater, we'd 3D print it.



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It just never happened.



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I mean, 3D printers are there and they have their uses, but as



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an everyday consumer item that is on every kitchen counter, no.



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I used to laugh at the smart home push.



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You know, for 30 years I went to those CES, consumer electronics show type



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things out in Las Vegas every year.



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And every year the theme would be: your home is gonna be smart



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and everything will be connected.



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And when you unlock the front door, the lights will come on and the AC



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will come on and the music will play.



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And you know, it just, it just never happened.



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Like decades...



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they promoted that stuff.



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Yeah, but sometimes it just takes time.



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00:11:59
You know, electric cars, everyone said, "Ah, they're dead.



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Range anxiety.



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Nothing, nothing's gonna happen."



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It just took time.



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And now you couldn't buy an electric car if you wanted one.



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It's the, the waiting list is like eight months long and sales



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tripled during the pandemic.



Aaron - Narration:
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Another legitimate concern is whether or



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not scientists and engineers are working on the right problems.



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00:12:22
Being able to turn your lights on with your voice isn't a massive



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innovation, even if it's convenient.



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00:12:28
But thousands of smart people work on how to make this better.



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What if instead they were working on ideas that improved the



Aaron - Narration:
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lives of the most vulnerable?



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Do you have thoughts around this idea, like



Aaron - Interview:
00:12:40
how science and tech ought to be focused more on the problems of the



Aaron - Interview:
00:12:45
most vulnerable people in the world?



David Pogue:
00:12:47
I mean, I'm, I'm not an expert on economics, but I'm,



David Pogue:
00:12:52
my gut tells me it's, it's just a matter of a capitalist society.



David Pogue:
00:12:57
Most people go into most businesses to make money, and you don't



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00:13:03
make money from poor countries.



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00:13:04
There are, you know, some really noble and amazing efforts.



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You know, there's those incredibly inexpensive solar panels that have



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been distributed in poor villages in Sub-Saharan Africa where they



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had been burning kerosene, which, you know, makes them sick and makes



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00:13:24
their small homes very filthy.



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And now you can get a small solar panel for, you know, a dollar and it'll power



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00:13:31
your light, and you're fan, and and so on.



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00:13:34
There are these incredible advances in medicine distribution.



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00:13:38
You know, o one thing you don't have when you live in a



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00:13:40
desperately poor country is glasses.



David Pogue:
00:13:42
There's no, there's no CVS, there's no LensCrafters, and they have just as



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00:13:48
many eye problems as wealthy people do.



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00:13:50
So, you know, these cool vans that drive from village to village



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00:13:54
and fit people with glasses, which changes lives all the time.



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00:13:59
There is, oh, this one makes me crazy.



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00:14:02
There's a blindness that affects millions upon millions of children's



David Pogue:
00:14:07
from a lack of, of a certain vitamin or mineral, and we found a way to grow



David Pogue:
00:14:13
rice--they call it golden rice--that includes that vitamin that would prevent



David Pogue:
00:14:18
millions of people from going blind.



David Pogue:
00:14:21
So far the countries that need it will not accept the rice because it came



David Pogue:
00:14:25
about through genetic modification, which is of course an entire



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00:14:28
podcast topic, or 50, unto itself.



David Pogue:
00:14:31
But basically in this country, all the corn we eat, all the uh, soy we eat has



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00:14:36
been genetically modified and it's safe.



David Pogue:
00:14:39
It's just, we just accelerated what nature does on its own.



David Pogue:
00:14:42
But it's not trustworthy because it's new and people don't understand it.



David Pogue:
00:14:46
So point is there are companies doing some good work, but there's not a profit



David Pogue:
00:14:51
motive to it, and so it's never going to get the same balance of attention.



Aaron - Narration:
00:14:57
David's podcast, Unsung Science, is one of the best



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:00
places to turn if you're looking for the science stories of good that



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:04
are not getting enough attention.



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:06
One of my favorite episodes is the one called "Chainsaws, Women



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:10
and the Cape Town Drought."



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:12
It tells the story of how climate scientists and the Cape Town



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:16
community in South Africa came together to rescue the city water



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:19
sources from going completely dry.



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:22
It's an awesome story, and I saw the lasting effects of it firsthand when



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:26
I was in Cape Town this past November.



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:29
The innovation there really worked.



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:32
Speaking of climate change, this is an area where the financial



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:35
incentives and scientific consensus are finally coming together.



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:40
Improvements in climate technology have been accelerating, but it creates



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:44
an interesting new challenge for science communicators like David who



Aaron - Narration:
00:15:48
want to motivate the continued changes needed in our behavior and economy.



David Pogue:
00:15:54
There has been a complete turnaround in the last two years regarding



David Pogue:
00:15:59
hope for our climate future, and it's tricky as a reporter or an editor, or



David Pogue:
00:16:06
a magazine, or a website because if you broadcast this good news too much,



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00:16:12
you worry about decreasing the urgency that people feel about making change.



David Pogue:
00:16:18
So you have a counter incentive to publicizing the good news when it comes



David Pogue:
00:16:23
to climates, and I, I totally see that.



David Pogue:
00:16:25
But on the other hand, the goal here is to decarbonize our species, to stop pumping



David Pogue:
00:16:33
carbon into the air from transportation, agriculture, manufacturing, and so on.



David Pogue:
00:16:40
And power generation is a big one.



David Pogue:
00:16:41
And in 2022, we got 28% of our power from solar.



David Pogue:
00:16:48
And I mean, we used to, if you ask the average American, they're



David Pogue:
00:16:52
like, "Oh yeah, solar power.



David Pogue:
00:16:53
That's this fringe 1% thing."



David Pogue:
00:16:54
No, it's almost a third.



David Pogue:
00:16:57
And of all the new electrical capacity installed this year, 72% of it was



David Pogue:
00:17:04
solar and wind, and 0% was coal.



David Pogue:
00:17:08
This year we generated more power from just wind, just



David Pogue:
00:17:13
wind, than coal or nuclear.



David Pogue:
00:17:15
And that's, that's a first in history.



David Pogue:
00:17:18
Gigantic progress being made on decarbonizing and you just,



David Pogue:
00:17:24
you just don't hear about it.



David Pogue:
00:17:25
Of crouse, It doesn't mean we don't have more to go.



David Pogue:
00:17:27
That doesn't mean we're gonna meet the deadline.



David Pogue:
00:17:29
And it certainly doesn't mean we're ever going to go back to



David Pogue:
00:17:32
the weather of the eighties.



David Pogue:
00:17:33
You know, those days are gone.



David Pogue:
00:17:35
You know, most of the heat, 93% of the new heat trapped by the greenhouse



David Pogue:
00:17:41
layer is stored in the ocean.



David Pogue:
00:17:44
And the oceans take decades or generations to heat up or cool down.



David Pogue:
00:17:49
So basically in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes, we



David Pogue:
00:17:53
will not see a return to the old, the old weather patterns.



David Pogue:
00:17:57
But the question is, can we stop the weather patterns from making



David Pogue:
00:18:02
it unlivable in most parts of the earth, and there is still some hope.



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:07
What should the typical consumer be doing?



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:10
Because I've read different perspectives on this and one of them is that it should



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:14
be an all-hands-on-deck kind of approach, and then others more skeptically have



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:18
said that the average consumer actually has very little influence other than



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:23
making sure they support policies that have the capacity for bigger change.



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:28
So we're putting the right people in charge, but beyond that, the things



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:31
I do in my day-to-day life have such a tiny effect on the climate that,



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:35
you know, whatever I were to do wouldn't really move the needle in



Aaron - Interview:
00:18:39
any way that's worth all the effort.



David Pogue:
00:18:41
Well, in one way that's true.



David Pogue:
00:18:42
If you change your light bulbs to LEDs or start taking the subway



David Pogue:
00:18:46
instead of driving, you will not save the planet by yourself.



David Pogue:
00:18:51
IN another way, taking those steps does have an effect, and it's



David Pogue:
00:18:56
this notion of social pressure.



David Pogue:
00:18:58
People will see what you're doing and people will suddenly consider, "Wait.



David Pogue:
00:19:04
That guy, Professor Miller does, does it this way.



David Pogue:
00:19:08
So clearly it's normalized.



David Pogue:
00:19:10
Clearly it's, it's possible to live a good life doing it the way he does.



David Pogue:
00:19:16
Maybe I should try that."



David Pogue:
00:19:17
Imagine a cafeteria where everybody's having lunch, and then



David Pogue:
00:19:21
on queue, 70% of the people in that room look up and to the left.



David Pogue:
00:19:27
What are you gonna do?



David Pogue:
00:19:28
You're gonna look up and to the left.



David Pogue:
00:19:29
You do what other people do, and that's, that's the effect that



David Pogue:
00:19:33
we'll have when a lot of people start making lifestyle changes.



David Pogue:
00:19:37
But in the larger sense, yes, your efforts are best spent affecting



David Pogue:
00:19:42
your institutions and your government and the companies you buy from.



David Pogue:
00:19:46
That kind of pressure will have a much bigger impact than



David Pogue:
00:19:51
any single thing that you do.



David Pogue:
00:19:54
And it doesn't mean you need to run for president.



David Pogue:
00:19:56
I mean, it can be your church or your temple, it can be your school board, it



David Pogue:
00:20:01
can be the local Chamber of Commerce, it can be the company you work for.



David Pogue:
00:20:06
You can make changes within organizations and institutions that have a big effect.



David Pogue:
00:20:12
Much bigger than a solo effect.



Aaron - Narration:
00:20:15
But, as individuals we do need to take some of our focus



Aaron - Narration:
00:20:18
in trying to prevent climate change and instead start preparing for it.



Aaron - Narration:
00:20:24
On this topic, David has literally written the book.



David Pogue:
00:20:28
And I should also say that, you know, as a guy who spent



David Pogue:
00:20:31
two years working on a book called How to Prepare for Climate Change,



David Pogue:
00:20:35
the other thing most people are not doing is preparing for climate change.



David Pogue:
00:20:40
That again, used to be a controversial stance, like should we tell people to



David Pogue:
00:20:47
accept what has changed and make changes to prepare changes in their insurance,



David Pogue:
00:20:52
and how they talk to their children, in what they grow in their gardens, and how



David Pogue:
00:20:56
they make their investments, and how they renovate their homes, or is that admitting



David Pogue:
00:21:01
defeat and getting people less excited about trying to mitigate the emissions.



David Pogue:
00:21:07
And I think now most experts agree that we need to do both.



David Pogue:
00:21:12
We need to mitigate the emissions and adapt for what has changed



David Pogue:
00:21:16
and will continue to change.



David Pogue:
00:21:18
So that's the other thing I think most people are not doing enough is



David Pogue:
00:21:22
preparing for what is now inevitable.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:25
I think this illustrates: these problems are complex,



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:29
the solutions are never one size fits all, they require people to have a



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:34
sophisticated understanding of things.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:38
And that's not how the message typically gets out into the world.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:41
I think of like health reporting, for example, and how it feels like every



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:44
year there's some newfad diet that likes to oversimplify the secret to weight



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:49
loss or avoiding cancer or whatever.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:52
If you just eat eight cucumbers a day, you're gonna be, you know, much healthier.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:56
Whatever it is.



David Pogue:
00:21:57
That one works, actually.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:58
Oh yeah.



Aaron - Interview:
00:21:59
Well, my wife would agree with you actually.



Aaron - Interview:
00:22:01
She's a very healthy eater.



Aaron - Narration:
00:22:04
Listening to David, you might assume that his science



Aaron - Narration:
00:22:07
expertise started with something like a degree in biochemistry from MIT.



Aaron - Narration:
00:22:12
This part of the episode will probably surprise you, because David's first



Aaron - Narration:
00:22:16
career wasn't in the lab, but on Broadway.



David Pogue:
00:22:20
Yeah.



David Pogue:
00:22:21
I have the very definition of an unconventional career path.



David Pogue:
00:22:24
I grew up obsessed with magic.



David Pogue:
00:22:27
I loved I Dream of Jeannie and Bewitched and the $6 Million Man.



David Pogue:
00:22:32
And I just, I wanted to be magic.



David Pogue:
00:22:35
I became a magician.



David Pogue:
00:22:38
I did 400 birthday parties growing up as a teenager.



David Pogue:
00:22:43
I just, I wanted there to be magic, basically.



David Pogue:
00:22:46
That's my own self-analysis.



David Pogue:
00:22:47
That's how this whole tech thing began.



David Pogue:
00:22:50
You know, you could really argue that opening your phone right



David Pogue:
00:22:54
now and resetting your thermostat 3000 miles away is kind of magic.



David Pogue:
00:22:58
Or, you know, speaking aloud in your house to turn the lights off



David Pogue:
00:23:04
and having it happen is, is magic.



David Pogue:
00:23:06
But I was also really into music, so I, I wrote and played the piano for children's



David Pogue:
00:23:12
musicals growing up in Cleveland.



David Pogue:
00:23:15
And then I went to college and wrote musicals all through college.



David Pogue:
00:23:20
And then when I got out of college, I was, I was a music major and I



David Pogue:
00:23:23
went to New York and became, uh, a Broadway conductor for 10 years.



David Pogue:
00:23:27
I played in orchestra pits and conducted and did vocal arrangements.



David Pogue:
00:23:31
And that's really the key to my story because in 1986 or so, the, the Mac



David Pogue:
00:23:39
had just come out in 1984 and there was this music software that...



David Pogue:
00:23:44
for the first time since the monks started writing music on paper as notation,



David Pogue:
00:23:52
there was a new way to input music and it was a software program called Finale.



David Pogue:
00:23:58
And basically you just play on your midi keyboard, your synthesizer, and



David Pogue:
00:24:03
it would write out the notes for you.



David Pogue:
00:24:05
It's, you know, it's sort of the musical sheet music equivalent of Siri where you



David Pogue:
00:24:09
dictate, and it just changed everything.



David Pogue:
00:24:12
I mean, people did not have to write out every note by hand for



David Pogue:
00:24:16
the first time in human history.



David Pogue:
00:24:18
So I really wanted this program, but it was a thousand dollars and I was a



David Pogue:
00:24:24
struggling musician, couldn't afford it.



David Pogue:
00:24:26
So I was a, a member of a computer club, the New York Mac Users Group, and we



David Pogue:
00:24:33
had a newsletter and the editor said, "Why don't you write this company and



David Pogue:
00:24:37
tell them that you're a reviewer and they'll have to send you a free copy?"



David Pogue:
00:24:42
It was a great idea.



David Pogue:
00:24:43
Great idea.



David Pogue:
00:24:44
And so I did.



David Pogue:
00:24:46
And they did.



David Pogue:
00:24:46
And suddenly I had Finale for free and I wrote a review.



David Pogue:
00:24:50
And then I'm like, well, heck, I could do that for Photoshop.



David Pogue:
00:24:53
And then I did the same thing and I could do that for Microsoft



David Pogue:
00:24:55
stuff and I did the same thing.



David Pogue:
00:24:57
So that's how we started writing about tech is to get free apps.



Aaron - Interview:
00:25:02
That's so great.



Aaron - Interview:
00:25:02
I love that.



David Pogue:
00:25:03
Yeah.



David Pogue:
00:25:04
And then eventually I started doing the same thing and getting paid for it with,



David Pogue:
00:25:09
I wrote for MacWorld magazine for 13 years and then the New York Times needed



David Pogue:
00:25:13
a new tech columnist in the year 2000.



David Pogue:
00:25:15
So I joined them and did that for 13 years, slowly phasing



David Pogue:
00:25:19
out of musical theater.



David Pogue:
00:25:21
But you know, it's never really gone from my blood.



David Pogue:
00:25:25
And then once the New York Times byline was there, then all kinds of doors opened.



David Pogue:
00:25:30
You know, Nova, the PBS science show, asked me to host one of



David Pogue:
00:25:34
their shows, and that led to a long career of hosting Nova specials.



David Pogue:
00:25:38
20 of them.



David Pogue:
00:25:39
Also, CBS Sunday morning came a-calling 2002 and asked if I would do one



David Pogue:
00:25:46
story on what was then the hot new invention called the Digital Camera.



David Pogue:
00:25:52
And so I demonstrated that for, for the viewers.



David Pogue:
00:25:56
They asked me to come back and do another story, and another.



David Pogue:
00:26:00
And you know, 21 years later I'm still doing CBS Sunday Morning stories.



David Pogue:
00:26:04
Anyway, overall, the overarching themes have been, you know,



David Pogue:
00:26:07
science, tech, music, entertainment, showmanship, and explaining.



David Pogue:
00:26:13
I guess that's, that's ultimately what I do is I'm an explainer.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:18
When you know this backstory, David's reporting makes



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:21
sense, because he specialized for years in how to capture people's attention.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:26
Once you have that, they'll listen to what you have to say.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:30
His distinctive quality as a science explainer is how he can simplify complex



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:35
ideas for non-experts to understand.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:38
For example, if you know that mRNA vaccines are a big deal, but you don't



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:42
get the science of why they're a big deal, listen to episode two of his podcast.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:48
In it, David explains how these vaccines work by comparing them



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:52
to ordering food at a restaurant, something we can all understand.



Aaron - Narration:
00:26:56
He described this a bit in our interview.



David Pogue:
00:26:59
In the podcast episode I did about it, somebody made the analogy



David Pogue:
00:27:03
of there's a restaurant in every one of your cells and your dna in the nucleus.



David Pogue:
00:27:07
In the middle is the chef, and they send instructions to this little



David Pogue:
00:27:13
messenger chemical called Messenger RNA or mRNA that runs out to the



David Pogue:
00:27:19
dining room, which is the outer part of the cell, and gives instructions



David Pogue:
00:27:23
to your protein making apparatus to make things that fight disease.



David Pogue:
00:27:29
And so the idea is we are reprogramming the messenger from the DNA to the



David Pogue:
00:27:34
outer part of the cell to carry new instructions to tell the proteins to



David Pogue:
00:27:38
make defenses against these diseases.



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:41
I've benefited personally from David's abilities.



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:45
Just after finishing law school, I was running a small blog about



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:48
iMovie software, just as a hobby.



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:51
David had written a New York Times tech piece about the new version of the



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:55
software and I sent him links to my site.



Aaron - Narration:
00:27:58
And he replied!



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:00
After a few exchanges, he invited me to tech edit his next iMovie book, part of



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:04
his long-running Missing Manual series.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:06
That turned into three subsequent books about iMovie that we co-authored, which



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:12
was an awesome and empowering experience.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:15
David is an exceptionally clear and entertaining writer,



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:18
and he taught me a lot.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:20
In fact, the experience writing with him led me to co-authoring The



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:23
Business Ethics Field Guide with my friends Brad Agle and Bill O'Rourke.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:27
I credit much of its success to all that I learned by working with David.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:32
His talent for explaining things so well has opened door after door for David, too.



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:37
It turns out that work as a science explainer can lead



Aaron - Narration:
00:28:40
to a pretty adventurous life.



Aaron - Interview:
00:28:43
Are there moments that still blow your mind when you reflect on



Aaron - Interview:
00:28:46
them, where it's like, I can't believe I'm here experiencing this incredible thing?



David Pogue:
00:28:51
I mean, I will say swimming with the sharks is pretty memorable.



David Pogue:
00:28:55
They had a shark wrangler, and an underwater cameraman, and an assistant.



David Pogue:
00:29:01
All of us did the dive.



David Pogue:
00:29:03
They all had full body chain mail suits, and I didn't.



David Pogue:
00:29:10
I was, I was just in a wetsuit.



David Pogue:
00:29:12
I'm like, "Can someone explain to me why I'm the only one



David Pogue:
00:29:15
who didn't get chainmail?"



David Pogue:
00:29:17
And the story was about why nothing grows on sharks like bacteria, barnacles, algae.



David Pogue:
00:29:23
Nothing grows on sharks like they do on, for example, ships.



David Pogue:
00:29:28
And it turns out it's because they have this wild, very fine micro



David Pogue:
00:29:34
groove pattern in their skin.



David Pogue:
00:29:37
They have like tiny, tiny microscopic scales called denticles.



David Pogue:
00:29:41
And if you pet a shark head to tail, you don't feel, it just feels like vinyl.



David Pogue:
00:29:47
But if you pet the shark, the other direction, you, you feel how it's



David Pogue:
00:29:51
rough and that's, that's those little grooves you're feeling.



David Pogue:
00:29:54
And that's why we needed to actually go down and touch them and wrangle them.



David Pogue:
00:29:59
And I remember when we were still on the ship, the shark expert said, "Now I'm



David Pogue:
00:30:05
going to wave these bloody fish guts in the water to attract the sharks to us.



David Pogue:
00:30:10
So I would advise that you, David, keep your arms by your sides.



David Pogue:
00:30:15
Don't wave them because the shark's gonna think you've got food and come at you."



David Pogue:
00:30:21
So if you see, if you see the finished, finished footage, like my arms are



David Pogue:
00:30:25
crossed under my armpits, I'm like,



Aaron - Interview:
00:30:28
As tight to your body as you can get them.



David Pogue:
00:30:30
Exactly.



David Pogue:
00:30:31
Like a stone.



David Pogue:
00:30:32
And it didn't work anyway.



David Pogue:
00:30:34
Like the shark came and got the chum and then saw me with these



David Pogue:
00:30:38
dead eyes and swam straight at my face like, "Do you have any?!?"



David Pogue:
00:30:43
It was just the scariest thing.



David Pogue:
00:30:46
I mean, if it had decided to eat me, there was just nothing I could do.



Aaron - Interview:
00:30:50
So is there something you haven't done yet or experienced



Aaron - Interview:
00:30:53
yet that you hope to someday?



David Pogue:
00:30:55
I mean, someday I'd like to experience zero gravity.



David Pogue:
00:30:58
I, I don't know if I'm ready to ride on one of those experimental rockets,



David Pogue:
00:31:03
which seems still super dangerous.



David Pogue:
00:31:05
But at the very least, maybe on my 60th birthday, I'll



David Pogue:
00:31:08
sign up for the vomit comet.



David Pogue:
00:31:10
You know that airplane that right flies in a steep arc so that you



David Pogue:
00:31:13
experience 30 seconds at a time of zero gravity and floating in the air.



David Pogue:
00:31:17
I think that'd be really fun.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:18
And now for a word from our sponsor.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:21
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Aaron - Narration:
00:31:26
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Aaron - Narration:
00:31:29
Having good intentions isn't enough.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:32
What you need are ethical skills.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:35
The Business Ethics Field Guide leads you through the



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:38
trickiest of ethical challenges.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:40
Based on extensive research involving hundreds of dilemmas faced at work



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:44
and written by authors with decades of experience, the book guides



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:48
you through the 13 most common ethical dilemmas that people face.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:53
It gives you the expertise and tools you need to navigate them safely.



Aaron - Narration:
00:31:57
But more than just keeping you safe, it also trains you to be



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:00
an ethical leader that others can follow with trust and confidence.



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:05
You can find The Business Ethics Field Guide at Amazon, Apple Books,



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:09
Audible, and at meritleadership.com.



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:16
Now that we know more about David and his decades of expertise, I wanted



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:20
to ask him about a range of topics.



Aaron - Narration:
00:32:22
So let's dig into them.



Aaron - Interview:
00:32:24
Let's start with this one: social media.



Aaron - Interview:
00:32:26
Has it been, do you think, net positive or net negative as far



Aaron - Interview:
00:32:30
as its technological usefulness?



David Pogue:
00:32:33
Yes.



David Pogue:
00:32:36
I mean, yeah.



David Pogue:
00:32:37
I mean, most of the focus is on the negative, which is, I mean, gigantic



David Pogue:
00:32:43
negative effects, polarization and depression and so on, but,



David Pogue:
00:32:47
you know, also wonderful effects.



David Pogue:
00:32:50
You know, uprisings against totalitarianism, and organizing



David Pogue:
00:32:54
events to fight for climate, or celebration of good deeds.



David Pogue:
00:32:58
I mean, just an immense amount of stuff that it doesn't get a lot of press.



David Pogue:
00:33:02
I've been assigned a story for Christmas Day for CBS Sunday Morning



David Pogue:
00:33:05
about the good news of 2022, and believe it or not, there was some.



David Pogue:
00:33:11
In fact, there was a lot, but it doesn't get press, and I think it's



David Pogue:
00:33:16
because bad news breaks, right?



David Pogue:
00:33:20
It, bad news tends to strike suddenly, but good news is just this constant



David Pogue:
00:33:25
river that's, that's more quiet and it's going on all the time everywhere.



David Pogue:
00:33:29
So it doesn't make headlines, but it's, it's happening.



David Pogue:
00:33:31
So, yeah, you know, I think the same social media, it's been a giant change



David Pogue:
00:33:37
with huge, positive and negative effects.



David Pogue:
00:33:40
Yeah.



Aaron - Interview:
00:33:40
What about crypto and blockchain?



Aaron - Interview:
00:33:42
Are there things about those technologies that most people



Aaron - Interview:
00:33:47
just don't understand enough?



David Pogue:
00:33:49
I don't think most people understand it at all.



David Pogue:
00:33:51
I think, you know, the whole thing was this, it was supposed to be unregulated.



David Pogue:
00:33:57
There weren't going to be middlemen.



David Pogue:
00:33:58
There weren't going to be banks.



David Pogue:
00:34:00
There was gonna be nobody charging fees.



David Pogue:
00:34:03
And I think that, you know, the irony is that already in its



David Pogue:
00:34:07
early days, we have most of that.



David Pogue:
00:34:11
There are middlemen.



David Pogue:
00:34:12
There are exchanges.



David Pogue:
00:34:13
You pay fees when you do transactions.



David Pogue:
00:34:16
There isn't regulation much, but it will be regulated.



David Pogue:
00:34:20
There's no question.



David Pogue:
00:34:21
I mean, it's just, yeah, it's just a free for all right now.



David Pogue:
00:34:24
So I, you know, I think most people don't understand that.



Aaron - Interview:
00:34:26
Are there any advancements on the horizon



Aaron - Interview:
00:34:29
in health that are especially exciting or interesting to you?



David Pogue:
00:34:34
mRNA vaccines.



David Pogue:
00:34:36
It's a whole realm.



David Pogue:
00:34:37
It's not just the Covid vaccine.



David Pogue:
00:34:39
It's a new way of programming your own body to fight disease.



David Pogue:
00:34:44
And Covid is only the beginning of it.



David Pogue:
00:34:46
I mean, they're looking at diabetes and cancer and all kinds of diseases.



David Pogue:
00:34:52
HIV, Lyme disease, all kinds of things could be fixed, and some



David Pogue:
00:34:57
are already in trials, you know?



David Pogue:
00:34:58
So I think the mRNA vaccine revolution is just...



David Pogue:
00:35:03
we've just seen the tip of the iceberg.



David Pogue:
00:35:04
It's really thrilling.



Aaron - Interview:
00:35:06
As you look at all the fields you reported on.



Aaron - Interview:
00:35:08
Are there fields where you think, "Man, we need more people in this one"?



David Pogue:
00:35:13
It's a weird time, right?



David Pogue:
00:35:14
Because it used to be that, you know, programmers would never be in short



David Pogue:
00:35:18
supply, and now of course you have these massive layoffs by all the tech companies



David Pogue:
00:35:23
and now you're, you're sort of crazy if you go major in computer science.



David Pogue:
00:35:27
But this, this could just be a, a glitch.



David Pogue:
00:35:30
I'd say obviously AI is just exploding right now and ethicists in AI, obviously.



David Pogue:
00:35:36
AI experts are getting massive, lucrative offers right now as



David Pogue:
00:35:40
they get out of grad school.



David Pogue:
00:35:41
In medicine, I'm probably not the guy to say, but obviously mRNA is a hot field



David Pogue:
00:35:47
and personalized medicine is a hot field.



David Pogue:
00:35:50
And you know, the world also needs attention.



David Pogue:
00:35:54
I, I don't know how we're gonna solve the rare disease problem, but there are



David Pogue:
00:35:59
no, no pharmaceutical company's gonna develop a drug for a horrible disease



David Pogue:
00:36:04
that affects only 150 people and we have no real way of solving that problem.



David Pogue:
00:36:09
But man, if you ever have an option of what you want to work on, there's



David Pogue:
00:36:14
gonna be a rewarding field for you if you can, if you can afford it.



Aaron - Narration:
00:36:18
David and I also found ourselves in a lengthy conversation



Aaron - Narration:
00:36:21
about machine learning and AI.



Aaron - Narration:
00:36:24
This past year has brought a dizzying array of technologies



Aaron - Narration:
00:36:28
that can make art or write poetry at a level that's almost human.



David Pogue:
00:36:32
Right now, what's really hot on my mind are two gigantic



David Pogue:
00:36:37
innovations from this company, OpenAI, which is a Silicon Valley



David Pogue:
00:36:42
artificial intelligence company.



David Pogue:
00:36:44
A lot of your listeners have probably heard of Dall-E, which



David Pogue:
00:36:46
is across between Wall-E, the Pixar movie, and Dali, the artist.



David Pogue:
00:36:51
This is this website where you can type in a description of any kind of art.



David Pogue:
00:36:56
You want like a panda made of Legos, hula dancing on the rings of Mars, painted



David Pogue:
00:37:03
in the style of Monet , and in seconds it'll produce that piece of finished art.



David Pogue:
00:37:09
It can be a painting, a cartoon, a pencil sketch, a sculpture, a a knit



David Pogue:
00:37:14
something, photorealistic, CGI generated.



David Pogue:
00:37:18
You can make it look whatever you want in the style of whoever you want.



David Pogue:
00:37:21
And that's very thrilling and very terrifying because of course it instantly



David Pogue:
00:37:26
means who would ever hire an artist again.



David Pogue:
00:37:29
But then something even more radical came out, which is,



David Pogue:
00:37:34
it has the awful name ChatGPT.



David Pogue:
00:37:37
Basically, it's an artificial intelligence writer, so it's exactly



David Pogue:
00:37:41
the same thing, but for prose.



David Pogue:
00:37:44
So you can type in, you know, write a limerick about,you know,



David Pogue:
00:37:49
being an economics professor.



David Pogue:
00:37:51
Or write an apology letter to my wife for being late to her birthday dinner.



David Pogue:
00:37:56
Or this is the code I've written and it has a bug that I can't find.



David Pogue:
00:38:00
Solve the code.



David Pogue:
00:38:01
Or write the instructions for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, written



David Pogue:
00:38:05
in the style of the King James Bible.



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:08
You've almost certainly played around with these tools in the past



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:10
year or maybe even used them for work.



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:13
And if you haven't, then you really should.



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:16
In fact, we all need to understand what they can do because the ground



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:20
is shifting for all kinds of careers because of this technology, including



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:24
mine as a college professor.



Aaron - Narration:
00:38:26
This was a fun, if somewhat troubling, part of our interview.



David Pogue:
00:38:31
It's terrifying.



David Pogue:
00:38:33
It's the absolute end of the college entrance essay.



David Pogue:
00:38:38
It's the end of homework.



David Pogue:
00:38:39
It's the end of letter writing.



David Pogue:
00:38:41
My son is applying to colleges.



David Pogue:
00:38:43
He's, he happens to be a Scrabble champion and so he won the the



David Pogue:
00:38:48
Nationals twice a couple years ago.



Aaron - Interview:
00:38:51
That's amazing.



David Pogue:
00:38:51
So that's what he wrote his college essay.



David Pogue:
00:38:54
So I, to compare, I said to this thing, write a college essay



David Pogue:
00:38:59
about being a Scrabble champion.



David Pogue:
00:39:00
And it, it basically wrote the same essay.



David Pogue:
00:39:03
You know, "I've been fascinated by the construction of words



David Pogue:
00:39:06
since I was a little boy."



David Pogue:
00:39:07
You know, like, incredible.



David Pogue:
00:39:09
And so I'm trying to not freak out because my whole career has



David Pogue:
00:39:16
been observing that freak out.



David Pogue:
00:39:18
Things tend not to destroy the world after all.



David Pogue:
00:39:20
But I have a hard time seeing.



David Pogue:
00:39:23
When I was in fourth grade, calculators came out and I



David Pogue:
00:39:28
remember the same kind of hysteria.



David Pogue:
00:39:29
"Kids are gonna forget, they're gonna lose the skill of doing



David Pogue:
00:39:33
arithmetic in their head."



David Pogue:
00:39:35
And the answer today we would say is, "Yeah.



David Pogue:
00:39:37
So?



David Pogue:
00:39:38
Yeah, like that's exactly what happened."



David Pogue:
00:39:40
And I think that's probably what'll happen with this.



David Pogue:
00:39:43
Like kids aren't gonna learn how to write an essay anymore.



David Pogue:
00:39:46
They're not gonna be able to write a letter, they're not gonna be



David Pogue:
00:39:48
able to structure their thoughts.



David Pogue:
00:39:52
Like now we have this tool, people will use it.



David Pogue:
00:39:56
That's what I'm trying to, to do is my rationalization without getting upset.



David Pogue:
00:40:00
But I've shown this to a couple of other professors, Aaron, and



David Pogue:
00:40:05
they are absolutely terrified.



Aaron - Interview:
00:40:07
Well, and you know, it's so funny to think about



Aaron - Interview:
00:40:09
that because I teach an ethics class.



Aaron - Interview:
00:40:12
Right?



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:16
David and I tested how well ChatGPT could answer one of my exam



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:20
questions for my business ethics class.



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:23
Without giving away the question--it was about the history of the challenger



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:26
shuttle disaster--I read the question to David and he read back the reply that



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:32
ChatGPT generated in just a few seconds.



Aaron - Interview:
00:40:35
Yeah, I would not spot that as not being written by the student.



David Pogue:
00:40:39
Yeah.



David Pogue:
00:40:40
Yeah.



Aaron - Interview:
00:40:40
Wow.



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:41
Thinking through everything that we've discussed in



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:43
this interview, I've gained a much deeper appreciation for the explainers



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:47
of science and tech, not just for the people engineering or inventing it.



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:53
It just so happens that my niece is heading into this exact profession,



Aaron - Narration:
00:40:57
and I thought it would be fun to ask David to give her some advice.



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:01
I have a niece who just graduated with her bachelor's



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:04
in aerospace from Cal Tech.



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:07
She was at JPL and had those incredible experiences, but she's actually decided



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:10
to, to pivot into science communication.



David Pogue:
00:41:13
Wow!



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:14
And so that's what she's doing for



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:15
her master's degree right now.



Aaron - Interview:
00:41:17
I, I wanted to ask what advice you have for her.



David Pogue:
00:41:20
Well, I'd say study the psychology of the public before you start



David Pogue:
00:41:25
communicating, because messages have to be phrased in a way that's reassuring.



David Pogue:
00:41:33
I mean, my whole thing about the unknown is that it's a hundred percent



David Pogue:
00:41:38
natural to be afraid of the unknown.



David Pogue:
00:41:40
We were evolved that way, right?



David Pogue:
00:41:42
Like our our ancestors survived by not going into the dark cave



David Pogue:
00:41:47
where there might be bears.



David Pogue:
00:41:49
And so what we need to do as new technologies come along



David Pogue:
00:41:54
is make them not unfamiliar.



David Pogue:
00:41:57
Make them familiar.



David Pogue:
00:41:58
So repetition, analogy, examples, explaining in terms that we



David Pogue:
00:42:04
are already comfortable with.



David Pogue:
00:42:06
In other words, the things people are afraid of, self-driving cars, 5G, mRNA



David Pogue:
00:42:13
vaccines, are only things they're afraid of because they didn't grow up with them.



David Pogue:
00:42:18
There's no such thing as a movement of photosynthesis deniers, right?



David Pogue:
00:42:22
There's no, there's no movement of people who say that baby



David Pogue:
00:42:26
humans do not come out of wombs.



David Pogue:
00:42:28
I mean, there's certain...



David Pogue:
00:42:29
that that ice does not come from water, right?



David Pogue:
00:42:32
There's certain things that everybody accepts as as scientific givens, and



David Pogue:
00:42:36
that's because we grew up with them.



David Pogue:
00:42:38
It's only technologies that are new, since we became adults,



David Pogue:
00:42:43
that people fear and mistrust.



David Pogue:
00:42:46
So that kind of thing.



David Pogue:
00:42:47
I, I'd say she needs to appreciate that before she starts just saying, this new



David Pogue:
00:42:52
AI program can write your letters for you.



David Pogue:
00:42:54
You know, you need, you need context, you need framing, you need



David Pogue:
00:42:57
an understanding of the terror.



Aaron - Narration:
00:43:00
No matter how well the explainers do their jobs, there's surely



Aaron - Narration:
00:43:04
some of the responsibility that needs to be laid at our feet, the listeners.



Aaron - Narration:
00:43:09
We have to be both open and discerning and that can be hard to do.



Aaron - Narration:
00:43:15
David has some great advice for all of us as well.



Aaron - Interview:
00:43:19
What advice do you have for the public as they learn



Aaron - Interview:
00:43:22
about new science, as they think about, you know, ways that science



Aaron - Interview:
00:43:25
and technology can help or hurt them?



Aaron - Interview:
00:43:28
Like are there big lessons that they should be taking away as



Aaron - Interview:
00:43:31
they process the information tsunami that hits them every day?



David Pogue:
00:43:35
I think the main thing is to consider the source and what they



David Pogue:
00:43:42
have to gain with the announcement.



David Pogue:
00:43:44
So is it a commercial company that stands to make a lot of money from this?



David Pogue:
00:43:49
And in that case, you can afford to be a little skeptical about,



David Pogue:
00:43:53
you know, have, uh, have they covered all the potential downsides?



David Pogue:
00:43:57
Have they done the proper testing?



David Pogue:
00:43:59
Does it work as well as they say?



David Pogue:
00:44:00
On the other hand, if there is no particular beneficiary...



David Pogue:
00:44:05
For example, as we record this today, it was announced that the National Ignition



David Pogue:
00:44:12
Facility, this multi-billion dollar experimental lab in California that's



David Pogue:
00:44:16
been trying to get nuclear fusion to work.



David Pogue:
00:44:20
This would mean infinite, completely clean, non weaponizable,



David Pogue:
00:44:25
nuclear energy from fusion.



David Pogue:
00:44:28
They've been working for years and years and years and years, consuming



David Pogue:
00:44:30
billions and millions and millions of dollars to attain ignition, which



David Pogue:
00:44:35
means getting more energy out of this laser collision than they've required



David Pogue:
00:44:41
to produce the lasers themselves.



David Pogue:
00:44:43
I hope that makes sense.



David Pogue:
00:44:44
In other words, the first step in getting fusion to work is to get a reaction that



David Pogue:
00:44:50
generates more power than you put into it.



David Pogue:
00:44:52
And they haven't even been able to do that for decades.



David Pogue:
00:44:55
So they finally achieved that and that news just came out this week.



David Pogue:
00:45:01
So, alright, so do we mistrust that information there?



David Pogue:
00:45:04
There's lots of caveats.



David Pogue:
00:45:06
That doesn't mean we can immediately build power plants using it.



David Pogue:
00:45:09
There's a long way to go.



David Pogue:
00:45:10
But, is there a corporation who's going to profit from this?



David Pogue:
00:45:14
No, because it's a government facility.



David Pogue:
00:45:16
Who stands to gain?



David Pogue:
00:45:18
Well in this case it's the world.



David Pogue:
00:45:20
I mean, it would be free clean energy forever.



David Pogue:
00:45:23
So is there a reason to be skeptical that it really happened



David Pogue:
00:45:27
the way they say they happened?



David Pogue:
00:45:29
Mm, not really.



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:32
We're at this point in history when it feels like every



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:35
day comes with news of some amazing human achievement: an invention that



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:40
treats a previously tenacious disease, a promising next step in unlimited



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:45
clean power, or an actual asteroid being diverted from its original course.



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:52
But the news is also rife with announcements about a shiny new



Aaron - Narration:
00:45:55
smartphone that's 3% better than the one that's already in our pocket.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:01
We're lucky to have the explainers to make sense of all these things,



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:06
and we ought to make sure that we pay attention to the good ones who



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:10
can help us see the new gadgets and discoveries for what they really are.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:15
I hope we can appreciate the important work that they do.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:19
I am so grateful to David Pogue for sparing his time and sharing



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:26
his stories and insights.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:28
This episode, as you can imagine, has been a particularly



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:31
gratifying opportunity for me.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:34
If you want to hear his podcast, Unsung Science, or read his book, How to



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:38
Prepare for Climate Change, we have links to those in the show notes.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:42
You can also stay up to date with him by joining his 1.2 million followers on



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:46
Twitter or by visiting DavidPogue.com.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:51
Next episode, I'll be talking with my dear friend and mentor, Todd Manwaring.



Aaron - Narration:
00:46:57
Todd is the founding director of the Ballard Center for Social Impact at BYU.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:02
It's the largest center of its kind at any university in the world.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:06
We're celebrating its 20th anniversary right now, and the



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:09
25,000 student experiences that it's created over the years.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:14
We'll talk about how to pick good charities, how to empower young people,



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:19
and how to find your own path in making a positive impact on the world.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:25
If you enjoy How to Help, please take a moment to give us a positive



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:28
review on your podcast app.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:30
It really helps us to reach more listeners.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:32
And if you have a favorite episode, I hope you'll share it on social



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:36
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Aaron - Narration:
00:47:37
It means a lot to us.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:40
If you want to stay up to date with the podcast and with my other work,



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:44
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Aaron - Narration:
00:47:47
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Aaron - Narration:
00:47:51
You can subscribe or read the archives at How-to-help.com.



Aaron - Narration:
00:47:58
This episode was written and recorded by me.



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:01
Our production team for this season has included Ty Bingham,



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:05
yours truly, and Joseph Sandholtz, who also mixes our audio.



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:10
Our music comes from the Pleasant Pictures Music Club.



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:13
If you want to use their music in your projects, you can find a link



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:16
and a discount code in our show notes.



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:19
Finally, as always, thank you so much for listen.



Aaron - Narration:
00:48:23
I am Aaron Miller, and this has been How to Help.