Episode 44 (Frank Tursi's Book, Baseball Evolution, Frank's Journalism Career)

WEBVTT
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Welcome back to the Hot Ashes Podcast.
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I'm Lee TK, baby.
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We got a good one for you today.
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We have a super famous person with us today.
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I'm excited about this one.
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It's gonna be good.
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So we're gonna do what we always do.
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We're gonna walk around the t- walk around the table.
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We're gonna go around the table.
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Talk about what we're smoking and what we're drinking.
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And I will start.
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I am smoking.
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Hey, Georges.
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It's not the box press torpedo.
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It's uh it's the same tobacco, but he's out of the torpedoes for like for like three weeks.
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So I'm very upset about that.
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Are you gonna be okay?
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No, I'm not.
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I am drinking delicious water because it's early.
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So I'm not gonna get to beer until a little bit later.
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TK smoking drinking.
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TK is over here smoking uh banless Georgia Select.
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The from the you know from the deep bottom of the box.
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From yeah, Nicaragua, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So, and I'm also enjoying, which I've been doing the past couple episodes, been hitting up some cold brew coffee from right across the street.
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Yeah, that's been your drink.
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Oh, and welcome back.
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Yeah.
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We did one with with we'll have to get to your uh camp and thing.
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Yeah, we'll talk about that later.
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I'm battered and tattered from that still.
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Oh, I'm sure.
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I'm sure.
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All right, who we got on microphone three?
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Hello, how are you?
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It's Mr.
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Frank Turcy.
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I was gonna give a whole big long Let me let me just say, I'm only famous here at the cigar shop and anywhere else.
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Yeah, but that's a good place to be famous.
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Yes, I guess it is, yes.
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Thank you for joining us.
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Well, I'm I'm happy to be here.
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Happy to be here.
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So, Frank, what are you smoking?
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One of George's, whatever this one's called.
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That one's called the Rise and Grind.
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It used to be the mice trip.
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It may be the best smoke in the house, but for the price, yes.
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Very good smoke.
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Yep.
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And I see you're drinking water.
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And I'm drinking water.
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That's 12 o'clock.
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H2O.
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I guess it's 12 o'clock.
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All right, microphone four.
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We got Chris.
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Chris Rabossi drinking it, uh smoking one of George's uh box presses, and uh water is for the week.
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So I'm drinking uh Silver Carpenter A C I P A non-alcoholic.
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You've been with the Silver Carpenter for a while.
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That's been your brand.
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A big fan of the Silver Carpenter.
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Yeah.
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Food line special.
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Nice, good.
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I've tried, well, I've I've tasted the non-alcoholic because I'm not drinking during the week.
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Right.
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Only on the weekends, but these guys are like, here you want one of these non-alcoholics?
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No, it's gross.
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I don't want the I want the buzz with the taste.
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I'm gonna drink beer.
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Without further ado, I don't want to, we're gonna just jump right into this.
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We'll start off with this book.
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So Frank is a published author, four-time published author, if I'm not uh mistaken.
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This book is, and we've talked about it on the show before, it's the Tar Heel Boys of Summer.
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And it's about North Carolina's Major League Baseball players.
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We're gonna be looking in that one right there, but uh we'll we could put a picture up on it.
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So, Frank, uh, first of all, what made you want to write this giant book?
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I'm a baseball fan, and you know, it's really the only sport that I've ever cared about.
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And um, and I and you know, I spent you know, 30 years as a journalist, most of that in North Carolina, and during that time I interviewed several of the players that are in the book.
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Um, and then COVID hit, and uh, you know, that one winter uh we were locked down.
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So really this the book started as a way to spend time meaningfully during COVID.
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Um and and so I started the research, and and it's it's all North Carolinians, including the Negro leaguers, that they're harder to find than the white players, but at least 50 in North Carolina played in the Negro leagues.
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And so it's all all all North Carolinians who made it into the major leagues, and as of the 24 season, that was 501.
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501, yeah.
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So I've I've profiled 34.
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Um there are little sketches of all 501, and then it's a baseball book, so the back is full of statistics.
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If you want to know who is the home run hitter, leads home run hitting in North Carolina, you can find it.
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So it was published in April.
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So it really was a way to just spend the time meaningfully um during COVID.
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Do any of them uh do you hang on to any of them?
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You have like a favorite one that you did?
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I don't have a favorite, but there are there are some very good stories in there.
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And um, and uh you know the Jim Hunter, which everyone knows is Catfish Hunter Um is in the Hall of Fame, one of the seven North Carolinians in the Hall of Fame.
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And I interviewed him when he was elected into the hall in the late 80s, 87, 88.
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Spent two days with him in Hertford.
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And he really is just a genuinely was.
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He died, but he generally was a nice guy.
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Yeah, and and I think in the book, you know, I termed him the the nicest farmer to ever pitch a perfect game.
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Um everyone called him Jimmy in Perquimans County.
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He wasn't known as catfish.
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That was a name that his owner gave him because he thought it was clever for a boy from the south who liked to hunt and fish to be called catfish.
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And that's what he's known as.
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But but back home he's always been Jimmy.
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And um he was a genuinely nice guy, and he was also the your younger baseball fans don't understand the way it used to be when Hunter played.
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Um there was no free agency.
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Uh when you sign with the team, there was a in the standard contract, it was called the Reserve Clause, and you were bound to that team for the rest of your playing career.
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Damn.
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Wow.
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And so the contracts were annual.
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You had no negoti couldn't negotiate with other teams, so you had no bargaining power.
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Yeah.
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So you ended up whatever you know the owner wanted to give you.
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Now, it's not to say they weren't well paid for their time.
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They were, but not at the astronomical levels that we see now.
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And it was Hunter who started that.
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Okay.
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Um there was a clause in his contract when he was with the the the uh Kansas City team uh that later went to Oakland and won three World Series.
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Um, but he was half of his contract was supposed to go into annuity.
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Well, his owner didn't do that.
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Hunter sued, won, and was declared a free agent.
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And he made$100,000 in 1974.
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What back then was it?
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1974 was good months.
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Once he was declared a free agent, he had he was a Cy Young Award winner, the leader of this team that won three World Series.
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Yeah, the price went up$100,000 a day.
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And so he ends up signing for$3.2 million over four years, which was at the time astronomical.
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Yeah, right.
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You know, and he told me he couldn't imagine just a million dollars to play baseball.
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He he just couldn't imagine it.
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Um it's like trying to think about how big the universe is, like you're not real.
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And you we don't, you know, nowadays that he would be a picture of his quality today, you would start talking at 20 million a year.
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That's what that's what you're talking at.
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And but at the time, but he he was he was he was just humble throughout the whole process, and uh but he changed baseball.
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He helped change baseball.
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So that's one of my favorite stories in the book.
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And there are a lot of others.
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I mean, there really are some really good good players.
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Most people have never heard of.
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Yeah, I always see like the uh the signs on the road where it's like home of there's some Robinson guy, I can't remember his name.
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It's uh it's either on the way to Raleigh or I can't remember.
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Jim Robinson?
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Let me ask you a question about Jim Hunter, though.
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When he became a free agent at this at that point in his career, was he still like peak level performer or was it later?
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He won twenty he signed with the Yankees, played for his final four years with the Yankees.
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In his first year, he won 20 games.
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Okay.
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But the Yankees abused him.
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I mean, he pitched 300 innings a year.
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Damn.
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Jeez.
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Um and by the time his second, by the time third year of his contract, he was pretty much but he was the winning pitcher on the World Series, the last World Series uh game the Yankees won.
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Yeah.
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So he was on the mound.
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Uh he was a money, what what's what was known as a money pitcher.
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That if you had to win a game, you your life depended on He's the guy.
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He's the guy you wanted on the mound.
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Damn, that's cool.
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And so that you know, but he was always very humble about it.
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And he was a farmer, and he did that when he retired.
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He became a farmer, he contracted Lou Gehrick's disease and died.
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Damn.
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Uh but yeah, he's he's truly one of the great, you know, the royalty of baseball.
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Wasn't Lou Gehrig a Yankee?
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Wasn't he a Yankee?
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Uh that's so crazy, man.
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Was there any common thread amongst the players that said, like, hey, this is what makes North Carolina so special?
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And I think, you know, if you look at those profiles collectively, now these are players who these are players who came up in the early to mid-20th century.
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Okay.
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Um, so North Carolina was a rural state.
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Sure.
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Um, textiles and tobacco were the industries in the state.
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Um, these guys all came from farms, they came from mill towns, every text, most of the large tech, or all the large technologies.
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Super humble means had villages.
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You know, they were mill villages where the where the employees lived.
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They had their own baseball teams.
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Those industrial leagues, many of these players came up to those industrial leagues, were very competitive.
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Um the good the good teams would hire players with no show jobs at the mill.
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All they had to do was play baseball, but they got paid for for a mill job.
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Um, so all that comes up in the book, and it paints a picture of a North Carolina that's that's now gone.
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Yeah.
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Um that's very different.
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Um, and that wasn't that long ago, you know, 50 years ago.
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Yeah.
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Um, so yeah, I think there are there are those common threads that that uh that's now different.
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You know, you look at the modern players, it's it's all different.
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Free agency changed everything.
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Yeah.
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I mean, and and you said it before, like the the astronomical numbers that you hear of now.
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Yeah.
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And you know, the record gets broken all the time.
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It's like this person's made how many hundreds of millions.
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Most most of the players in the book had to have jobs in the window.
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Right.
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They worked, yeah.
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Sold cars.
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And they're playing, they play major league baseball.
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Yes, and you know, the good ones, like a lot of them car salesmen for obvious reasons.
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The reputation, you know, you know, you got Ian Slaughter selling cars for you.
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Yeah, you're gonna go go to the beauty dealership and go.
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Right.
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You want to buy a car from that guy.
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Yeah, yeah, that's right.
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So they were salesmen, clothes salesmen, you know, of some sort to play on their reputations.
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But yeah, they all had jobs.
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Yeah.
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That's so crazy how different it is now because you couldn't even imagine seeing uh and then you know the Negro leagues they they played at a time when the society was separated, baseball was certainly separated, blacks couldn't play in the white major leagues.
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So a whole league, professional league, developed in the 20s and 30s of some very good ball players uh who could have played in the white major leagues.
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One easily probably been superstars.
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Yeah, yeah, exactly.
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There's a guy when when I went to in in Rocky Mountain, North Carolina in the early nineties, they had a Buck Leonard day.
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Uh Leonard was made in his nineties, and this was just a day to honor a native son.
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Buck Leonard was they called him the Black Lou Garrick.
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That's how good he was.
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Yeah.
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Um played on the Homestead Greys, which won nine consecutive championships.
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Wow.
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Um batted ahead of Josh Gibson, who was probably the best catcher to ever play.
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They were called the Thunder Twins.
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I mean, this guy was a a talent star.
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Yeah.
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Um who heard of him?
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I mean, you know, whites didn't go to the games.
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Yeah.
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Uh photographers from white newspapers didn't go take pictures, so it was very difficult.
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And if you look in the book, the section on the Negro Leaguers, there are only two pictures.
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Yeah.
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And it's not because I could just lack of coverage, no exposure.
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Yeah, they they just they didn't exist, they didn't, they didn't survive the digital age.
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Right.
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And so they're not available in repositories.
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Well, you can Lou Garrett.
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Yeah, a million pictures you can choose.
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Right.
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But Buck Leonard, who was somewhat of the equivalent, you know, they're a handful of pictures, and it's later in life when he became a celebrity.
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Right, right, yeah.
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It's not like while he was playing.
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Yeah, that's right.
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Yeah.
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So it yeah, it's uh, but you know, another one of my favorites, you know, and he came from a train yard in Rocky Mount.
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We even stalled in breaks.
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Yeah.
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Lost his job in the Depression.
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The only other talent he had was playing baseball.
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Yeah.
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So he he migrated up to the north and started playing for, you know, black team, professional teams, and h got on to the Greys, which was one of the great franchises in sports history.
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Yeah.
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Well, so that league just kind of dissolved when they joined.
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Yeah, once once Jackie Robinson broke the culberry in the 1940, there was no reason.
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You know, now the talented players were playing where the money was.
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Because there was never any money in the black major leagues.
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Right.
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So, yeah, by by the late 50s, the Negro Leagues dissolved.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Damn, that's pretty cool.
00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:46.320
Now, uh when you so one of the things I remember you talking about and was the incorporating pictures.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.720
How difficult was that, like incorporating pictures in the book?
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:57.759
Well, I mean, you know, it it it it really becomes a price because the book the more pictures you have, the more expensive it is to print the book.
00:13:57.919 --> 00:13:58.240
Yeah.
00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:00.720
So the publisher had a price point.
00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:00.960
Yeah.
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.720
So I you know, I was bound by economics here.
00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:05.120
Yeah.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.080
So I knew how many pictures, and plus I had to pay for most of them.
00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:08.480
Right.
00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:14.240
Uh there are only a handful that came from public repositories that the copyright issues were settled.
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:19.679
Um, so yeah, so it became uh an issue of money as to just how many pictures you can print.
00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:22.720
But it it wasn't difficult to find pictures.
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.600
Um I looked for unusual pictures.
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:30.320
Because you can, you know, the one of our Hall of Fame is Enough Slaughter, played for the St.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.919
Louis Cardinals for many years and and then was let go by the Cardinals.
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:47.679
And there's a very faint poignant pic story in his life where how crushed he was, that the team he had played his entire career for, one World Series, was an MVP, let him go, traded him.
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:48.080
Yeah.
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:57.120
And and there's a great scene where he he told he told about it that he was crying in the locker room when he was getting his uniform out of the locker room.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:58.240
Well, I found the picture.
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:04.960
So uh yeah, he's he's on he's taking his uniform out of the locker for the last time.
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:07.279
Oh man, that's gnarly.
00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.960
Dressed in street clothes, but I so I tried to find pictures that fit the story.
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:13.440
Yeah.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:17.679
And because I knew I was going to be limited to how many I could run, so I said, let's run something.
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:18.960
We gotta get the good ones.
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:22.320
Yeah, that people haven't seen before, that's somewhat unusual.
00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:22.960
So yeah.
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:30.000
So now you uh and and I don't know if we've talked about it yet, your former career was as a journalist, and you've interviewed quite a few people.
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:30.320
Yeah.
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:32.960
So that well, who's the most famous baseball player?
00:15:33.519 --> 00:15:35.919
I had one more question before we go like into the interviews.
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:42.639
Uh so you're talking about writing the book during COVID, but been essentially writing for most of your adult life.
00:15:42.799 --> 00:15:44.320
Is that a true correct statement?
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:44.799
Yeah.
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:54.240
So you said it came to fruition during COVID, but is this kind of style of book or this kind of topic, is that something that you always knew that you wanted to write about?
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:57.360
Yeah, well, you know, and then you finally had the chance during COVID?
00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:58.080
That's right.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:08.240
Yeah, when I was interviewing, you know, Bug Buck Leonard and um uh Hunter and others, uh You knew it could become a compilation of some sort.
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:13.840
Ernie Shore was the sheriff of Forsyth County, where I worked for 25 years.
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:19.679
One day in 1917, Ernie comes off the bench to relieve Babe Ruth.
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:23.200
They're playing for the Red Sox in 1917.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:29.519
Ruth was not yet the slugger that would change the game, but he was a very good left-handed pitcher.
00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:41.120
He started a double-headed with Washington, and Ernie wasn't scheduled, Ernie played for the Red Sox, wasn't scheduled to pitch that day, and he was really looking for a long after idle afternoon of doing nothing on a Sunday.
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:48.879
Well, babe in the first inning walks the first batter, gets in an argument with the home plate umpire, a guy named Brick Owens.
00:16:49.120 --> 00:17:01.759
Now, Brick started Umpire when he was 14 years old professionally on the streets of Moldwater, was got in numerous altercations with fans and players.
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:06.000
One person in the fan threw a brick at him, hit him in the head, knocked him out.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:09.200
He cleaned the wound and said play ball.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:16.319
And so from that he got his nickname, Brick Owens, which he always said was better than a lot of the other names that people called him.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:22.720
So Brick was behind the plate and he wasn't gonna take any shit from, no matter what how talented this kid was.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.880
So Babe charges him, the catcher stops him.
00:17:28.000 --> 00:17:28.640
You're out of here.
00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.359
It takes two cops to drag Babe off the field.
00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:37.279
Well, the manager calls Ernie and says, You're up.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:39.039
Just try to get out of the inning.
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:44.000
So the first batter who walked tried to steal second, the catcher threw him out.
00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:48.880
And Ernie proceeds to retire the next 26 batters.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:49.759
Wow.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.880
And is credited with a no-hitter.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:54.079
Uh he and Babe.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:56.799
He and Babe are credited with a co-no-hitter.
00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:04.000
And he was the sheriff of Fersythe County, who I talked to dozens of times and can talk tell stories about Babe Ruth.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.680
He roomed with Babe Ruth.
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.880
So from all that, this book starts to form in my head.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:09.039
Yeah.
00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.519
And then COVID hits and say, well, hell, that's a good thing.
00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:12.880
Now what else am I doing?
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:13.039
Yeah.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.119
You know, and I have to say, I did that all from Swansboro.
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:19.359
Uh, ten years ago it wasn't possible.
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:20.799
Just was not possible.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:35.440
To get the kinds of quotes and background and context for these stories, I would have had to gone to libraries all over the state, numerous states, and it just wouldn't have been financially for a book that's not going to make me a millionaire.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:37.359
It just wasn't going to be possible.
00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:40.079
But the internet makes that all possible.
00:18:40.720 --> 00:19:06.880
And I don't know what the Mormons' original idea of what ancestry was, but for 200 bucks a year, I have access to give me a name, give me a birth date, give me a town where the person was either born or spent a lot of time of his life, and as quick as an uh an uh instant internet connection, I have the framework of a life.
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:13.920
Death certificate, birth certificate, military discharge papers, citations, employment records.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.519
Every it's right there.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:26.720
And then from that framework, I can go into newspapers, which Ancestry, again, I got access to millions of pages of newspapers going back to the 1870s.
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:37.440
So if I know a date in which Ernie Shore pitched, I can go to the Baltim Boston papers and get reporting from that day with quotes and and and then story fills out.
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:38.480
That's crazy.
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:40.880
But yeah, ten years ago it would have been impossible.
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:47.359
So yeah, the internet has also changed things as far as as a research tool, it's it can be invaluable.
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:47.680
Yep.
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:48.559
Yeah.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:53.440
Okay, now I didn't mean to cut you off, but I wanted to ask that before.
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:57.839
Well, I noticed your shirt and I know whose shirt it is because I asked you before the show.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:20:00.160
So who is the most famous baseball player you've ever met?
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:06.079
Well, I I when I give talks about this, I always ask, I I I say you get a prize.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:19.279
If anyone in the audience can this outfit here, if you're a baseball fan, particularly of some long and tooth, this should set uh neurons in your brain going off saying something's not right.
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.359
There's something wrong with this picture.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:26.480
And only once in the was someone was someone able to get it.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:28.400
This this is a Brooklyn Dodger.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:35.200
For you younger fans, the Dodgers you know that are now in Los Angeles started in Brooklyn.
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:45.599
And my father was a great Brooklyn Dodger fan, and and the Dodger fans were known for their passion and and and so my father was an Italian immigrant.
00:20:45.839 --> 00:20:48.640
I'm also convinced it introduced him to America.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:49.039
Yeah.
00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.480
He had a hot dog for the first time at Fen at Ebbettes Field.
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:52.960
Yeah.
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:57.680
Um, he learned the language through the language of baseball.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:01.920
And and so it helped acclimate him to his new country.
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.920
And it's not he wasn't alone.
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:10.160
A lot of Italian Americans of that generation were deep baseball fans, New York baseball fans for the same reason.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.039
But so I I wear the hat in honor of him.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.720
And this, of course, is a Yankee uh traveling jersey.
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:19.519
You can see the seven.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:23.440
Um, it's Mickey Mannel's jersey, or you know, facsimile of his jersey.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:29.599
Um and Mannell, a kid born on the Brooklyn streets in the 1950s.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:30.880
Mickey Mannell was the man.
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:31.599
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:32.880
He was the dude.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:39.759
And you know, we never we wouldn't put it, think it was sacrilegious to put a baseball card in a spokesy bicycle.
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:40.640
No way.
00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:43.359
And even if you had triplicates, you would never trade it.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.039
You know, he he was the man.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:51.359
Um, so my father, bless his heart, a Brooklyn Dodger fan, you could not be a Yankee fan.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.039
You couldn't, it's it was impossible.
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:58.400
But the the Dodgers left town at the end of the 57 season, and I come up in 1960.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.839
I'm 10 years old, and I'm a Yankee.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.400
Fan.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:05.440
And I I think to my father's greatest regret in life was that his only son became a Yankee fan.
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:07.359
But I had no choice.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.680
The Dodgers, the Dodgers left, the Giants left.
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:11.200
The Yankees were the only team in town.
00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:15.039
When I'm getting old enough to form fan, you know.
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.480
So I became a Yankee fan.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:17.519
Bless his heart.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:19.519
My father always took me to the games.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:20.720
And they were day games.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.400
Gritting his teeth the whole time.
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:24.559
Rooting for the other team.
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:26.400
He was.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.559
He was rooting and very vocal about it, but rooting for the other team.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:33.519
So I used to, these were day games.
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:35.119
They started at two o'clock.
00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:36.559
They were over by four.
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.079
It took an hour and a half, two hours to play the baseball game.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:41.279
And they were over by four.
00:22:41.359 --> 00:22:43.839
And that was because they didn't change pictures.
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:48.640
The starting pitcher ended the game, so there wasn't all this changing because that's what takes up the time.
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:57.200
But anyway, we we I used to beg the old man to stick, let's stick around after a game.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:05.759
So when the players come out at a clubhouse, and you could see the clubhouse door on River Avenue, when the players come out of the clubhouse, we can see him and I go get autographs.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.519
So we're at a bar across from Yankee State.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.519
I'm having a hot dog, he's having a beer.
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.200
It's like six o'clock, six thirty, and I see the clubhouse door open.
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:18.000
Here they come.
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:18.720
Here they come.
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:20.559
So I go dashing across the street.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:22.640
And there were probably 10 or 12 other kids.
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:22.880
Yeah.
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:23.680
Same thing.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.400
So there's not a kids at the clubhouse door.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.799
Yogi Berra comes out and signs order grass.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:29.839
Oh my gosh.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:32.480
Roger Maris comes out and signs the order grass.
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.720
Whitey Ford comes out to sign the order grass.
00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:36.559
That was all nice.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:38.400
But we wanted to make.
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:40.160
Here comes Mann.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.599
Literally pushed kids away.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:44.160
Okay?
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:49.039
Got into his Cadillac in the players' parking lot and zoomed down the street.
00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:49.839
No way.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.000
I said, what the fuck?
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:59.599
Fast forward 60, 25 years.
00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:01.599
Mannel's retired.
00:24:02.079 --> 00:24:11.119
He's working for the Bally Corporation, which at the time, he and Willie Mays were working for this corporation, which owned the casinos in Atlantic City.
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:19.359
The I think it was Bowie Kune, whoever the commissioner was at the time, gave Mannel and Mays an ultimatum.
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:23.759
Get out of that gambling, or with I'm throwing you out of baseball.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:40.079
So we it was he gave them a deadline, two or three weeks, and it was during this period, this two or three week deadline, that Bally had a golf tournament for its it was just a promotional golf tournament at Tanglewood, which was a PGA course outside of Winston-Salem.
00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:43.119
Mann would be there, of course, as you know.
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:50.240
He's the the guy, the celeb so I I I was a sports writer at the time, and so I got ten minutes.
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:54.960
They gave me ten minutes with Mickey Mantle at seven o'clock in the morning.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:56.400
It's pouring.
00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:00.559
I get there at seven o'clock, and it is pouring rain.
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:03.759
Mann gets there a little later than that.
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.359
The bar's closed, but he gets a coarse light from the bar.
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.519
I introduced myself, and it rained the rest of the day.
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:12.400
It poured.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:14.240
So they canceled the tournament.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.119
So my ten minutes turned into several hours.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.440
That's a little bit of a man.
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.559
So I told him this story from 1960.
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:27.519
He said, Oh man, maybe I struck out three times that day.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:29.440
I said, Mick, I didn't give a fuck.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:30.720
You moved your battle.
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:32.559
You struck out four times.
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:33.200
I didn't care.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:37.279
So I was wearing an old Yankees hat that I got as a kid.
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.119
It didn't even fit on my head anymore.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.039
It was just sitting on the crown.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:41.920
Sitting on the crown.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.799
And when Mannell saw it, he said, Damn, who gave you that hat?
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.559
Miller Huggins, who was a Yankee manager in the 1930s.
00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:50.880
So I had this hat on my head and I tell him this story.
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:52.799
He says, God damn it, give me that hat.
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.359
And he grabbed the hat and he signed the bill.
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.759
And I have a picture of him wearing the hat and me with my arm around him.
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:01.759
Oh, that's pretty cool.
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:04.480
To authenticate the the uh the autograph.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:06.720
So yeah, that that's my Mickey Mantle story.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.319
But he and you grew up idolizing the guy and then you got to interview him.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.960
He was he was also a genuinely nice guy.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:13.279
Yeah.
00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:15.839
Um he had issues with alcohol.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:16.720
Uh yeah.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:17.599
He did.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.839
Um, and it it killed him.
00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:24.960
But but uh you know, in his famous, you know, told kids, don't be like me.
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.039
Um I don't know if you all remember that.
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:28.960
He was a week or so from being from that.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:31.519
No, wasn't that movie 61 about him?
00:26:31.839 --> 00:26:34.000
Yes, yeah, uh he and Roger Maris.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:34.240
Yeah.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.000
But yeah, he got on national television.
00:26:36.400 --> 00:26:38.720
Was he just having like a full circle closure of life?
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:40.720
Like, hey, do not go down this road?
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:44.240
He alcoholic alcohol had ruined his liver.
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:54.720
He somehow qualified for a liver transplant, I suspect, because he was making mad also and got a liver transplant, but didn't last long after that.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:00.799
And uh, you know, for him to get up there on National Telling he was old, and I mean you can tell he he was a sick man.
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:03.200
You know, tell kids don't be like me.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.000
Damn.
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:11.920
And uh the message to kids like me who wanted to be like was very poignant and very powerful.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:13.200
Yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:18.799
So he he was he was also a nice guy who and he handled his fame pretty well.
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:28.160
Um many do not, and it's not only in sports, but many people don't you know don't handle I've interviewed very thousands of people.
00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:31.519
Um but he he handled his fame very well.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:33.359
You guys hear that?
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:34.079
What is that?
00:27:34.720 --> 00:27:35.519
I don't know what that is.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:36.880
Is it coming outside?
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:39.200
No, it's in our ears.
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:45.359
Yeah, it's one of our either mics or headphones or something.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:49.839
Yeah, you're doing something.
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:50.559
You hear that?
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:53.359
Yeah, yeah, I guess TK messed with something.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:57.680
Yeah, yeah, you should have.
00:27:58.640 --> 00:28:03.920
Uh so then that was that was not the most famous person though that you interviewed as well.
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:06.960
It's probably well it it was the to me, yeah.
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:08.319
Yeah, yeah, like your hero.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.799
It was the most important person to me.
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:11.680
That's weird.
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:16.319
Just because of the personal when I was a kid.
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:28.960
Yeah, those those attachments, but um but you know, you you know, I yeah, I've interviewed governors, I I've interviewed senators, but you know, it's it was just part of the job.
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:38.000
I mean, it wasn't uh um I'll I'll I'll tell you I was just starting, I was a kid.
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:40.880
Uh I got my it was my second newspaper job.
00:28:40.960 --> 00:28:43.279
We were in Key Bus Gang, Florida.
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.519
I was a cop reporter.
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:50.720
Um, and um we were my wife and I went to pizza one Friday night.
00:28:50.799 --> 00:29:02.880
You know, I knew a lot of the sheriffs and the local police officers, so one of the sheriffs came up to me and said, uh, you need to check on a disturbance that we answered last night at uh at Sanesta Beach, one of their cottages.
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:05.759
It was a big hotel on the island called Senate.
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.599
Cubiscane is a little island off in Biscayne Bay off of Miami.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:16.720
Um and the police had answered a call at one of the houses that you check that out, the cop told me.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:17.519
So I did.
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.000
Turned out it was Warren Beatty.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:20.799
Oh, cool.
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:39.119
It was right after that movie Shampoo came out, and he had the the the indication seemed to be there was some he was beating somebody up, which but I I was I was working, I used to freelance for the Inquirer.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:40.240
Oh no way.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:41.200
Yeah, I did.
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:48.240
And I'm not I'm not I I mean I did mostly medical stories, um, and they were they paid very well.
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:48.640
Yeah.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:50.480
Um they set a tabloid?
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:50.960
Yeah.
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:58.960
Yeah, they they paid very I did that for about a year, but and and and no story as I wrote it ever appeared in Inquirer as I wrote it.
00:29:59.119 --> 00:30:03.519
So rewrote everything, but they and they didn't even give you byline.
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:10.720
It was Malcolm Balfour, who was my editor, who I I sense has passed on, but but they were all from Australia.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:12.880
What but they paid very well.
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:19.039
And if you're a kid struggling along, yeah, you know, getting a hundred dollars a story, uh that that's pretty good.
00:30:19.519 --> 00:30:20.000
Right, right.
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:25.039
So the story ran in the inquiry, yeah, about the suspicion of Warren Beatty.
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:26.400
But I interviewed Warren Beatty.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:27.920
And he was he was very nice.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:28.799
Yeah.
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.000
Everybody's nice.
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:31.119
Yeah, he was very nice.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:31.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:33.599
Golly, that's cool.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:46.480
So going back to like the the baseball players and interviewing them and stuff, was uh uh like regular alcohol use, was that like a pretty normalized thing amongst the board?
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:56.240
That that that that will be an that's also a theme that runs throughout the book is how alcoholism affected the careers of a number of players.
00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:56.799
Right.
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.279
Um But it was the standard almost, right?
00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:01.200
These were day games, yeah.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.519
So they were over by four or five o'clock.
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:04.640
Time to hit the bar.
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.880
Yeah, these were kids in their twenties with nothing to do.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:12.720
They they usually didn't have their if they were married, their wives didn't travel with them.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:13.119
Right.
00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:19.039
Um, so yeah, they got into alcohol and women and and no, it wasn't uncommon.
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:19.920
Yeah, right.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:32.960
Um, but it it it bore it really bore bore down on them in their careers because you see a lot of deterioration of careers um that would not have as quickly as it did if not for the alcohol.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.759
And and it left some of them truly destitute.
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:36.720
So yeah.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:43.920
Well, it's funny how you you look at the physique and stuff of a ball player in the twenties and then the physique of like right now, right?
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.480
Like they're bench pressing cars and stuff like that.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:50.240
Yeah, and they didn't they didn't have the training facilities or or any of that.
00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:52.240
Um, you know, and uh yeah, they did train.
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:58.079
I mean, yeah, yeah, but it was they threw a a wake ball around or yeah, but like do you look at Babe Ruth.
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:04.799
Well, actually, you know, that's that's that's a misconception because actually, Babe, the pictures we see of Babe are late in his career.
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:05.279
Oh, okay.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:08.880
But that's when photography and particularly videography developed.
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:14.559
So we see a babe in his late 30s, mid to late 30s, he's gained weight.
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:22.079
But you look at a babe in 19 from 1917 to early 20s, he was he was fast.
00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:26.079
I mean, he was never sleek, yeah, but he was well built.
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:27.440
But super athletic, though.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:28.640
And super athletic.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:33.279
He was he was a fine outfielder, he was a great defensive outfielder, had a great arm.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:40.160
Yeah, was as I said, was the best left-handed pitcher in baseball when he was pitching in the in the teens.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.319
Um, so he was an athlete.
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:50.000
And you know, I think that's lost, and particularly a lot of younger players, and I always chuckle when I see these comparisons of Shoho Itani and Babe Ruth.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:51.920
It's not it really isn't even close.
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:52.799
Yeah, right, right, right.
00:32:53.039 --> 00:33:00.160
Um, but you know, they they don't conceive of because they see the Ruth they see is this fat old man who could smoking a cigar.
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:00.799
That's right.
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:02.960
Smoking a cigar could hit home runs.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:08.400
But the pitches weren't as good back then, which of course is baloney, but you know, that's the concept.
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:11.599
Yeah, and but no, babe was Babe was a hell of an athlete.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:13.359
Yeah, he was a base dealer.
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:18.160
Um he was rash sometimes, um, because he just didn't know.
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:22.480
At what time in his career did he do the famous call in the home run?
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.839
Was that like later in the career?
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:34.880
Yeah, you know, when he he he the the Red Sox traded him to the Yankees in 1920, and then he became Isn't that where the curse of the Yes, that that was the band curse of the great Bambino.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:35.200
Yeah.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:46.319
Um and uh and when he got to the Yankees, everyone realized only you playing him f once every four days as a pitcher was you you you you were wasting his talent.
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:50.960
So they they turned him into an outfielder, and then he became hit 50.
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:53.279
He had more home runs than teams were hitting.
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:56.400
Um and yeah, became and changed baseball.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:02.960
I mean he just literally, and he was a perfect, he was a perfect example of 1920s America.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:08.639
The excesses because yeah, when he before he got married, he was the womanizer.
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:15.760
Um, you know, I th one of his roommates once famously said, I didn't I had a room with the babe, I roomed with his suitcases.
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:20.079
And you know, he he was because he was never there, he was never there, you know.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:27.840
So he he he there's there's you know he got sick in Asheville, um, and it's called the Great Belly Ache curved round the world.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:32.800
They were on spring training and they were working their way back to New York and they played the team at Asheville, the minor league team.
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:38.719
And babe got what the Yankees said was a bellyache by eating too many hot dogs and was hospitalized.
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:47.679
Now, there's always been speculation that there was something else he was in and uh some venereal disease is is is suspect.
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:56.639
Um but yeah, he was a womanizer and all that, but then he got married and he he did settle down, and he he was the first player to have an off-season trainer.
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:04.719
Um and so yeah, he trained in the off-season, he had a farm someplace in New England or upstate New York, and he would you know haul wood.
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.039
That was his you know, that was his exercise.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:14.320
But you know, he no, it it's it's really does him a disservice to just think of him as a fat old guy who can hit home runs.
00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:14.639
Yeah.
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:23.039
It is crazy like how that is what the you know what people would see him like now, like somebody my age, I'm 35.
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.360
You can see pictures of babe roof, and you're like, that dude can't even run to first base.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.360
Well, you know, it's it's very instructive.
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:32.159
One of the things I did, you know, I was read these old newspapers.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:38.880
And so I was reading papers in the 1920s, and that allows you to put people in the context of their times.
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:39.280
Yeah.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:47.280
And where Babe Ruth fit in the culture of the 1920s, there there wasn't a sports, there wasn't an athlete like Babe.
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:56.559
Jack Dempsey came close, and he was the heavyweight champion of the world, but yeah, Dempsey wasn't the flamboyant guy that Babe was.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:58.960
Um he was heavyweight champion of the world.
00:35:59.039 --> 00:35:59.599
He didn't have to be.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:01.519
Yeah, no talking necessary.
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:11.440
And and so, you know, it it it's to put put these figures in their times, yeah, to realize what they really meant to culture, to America.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:13.280
And Babe meant a great deal.
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:23.519
I mean, you know, there's a great story told in the fighting in on in the Pacific during World War II, that the Japanese would yell across lines, fuck Babe Ruth.
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:26.960
Not fuck Franklin Roosevelt, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:36:27.119 --> 00:36:27.840
But Babe Ruth.
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:29.519
Because they know that that means something to people.
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:30.719
What does that mean?
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:31.760
Babe Ruth.
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:33.519
Yeah, so so yeah, yeah.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:39.039
And and it's too bad that young baseball fans don't understand that and they start making comparisons.
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:40.800
Yeah, because it really is silly comparison.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:42.480
That's why they need to read your book.
00:36:43.119 --> 00:36:43.440
That's right.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.960
I had you I had you muted because the your mic is what's making that noise.
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:47.760
Oh, it was?
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:48.159
Okay.
00:36:48.320 --> 00:36:49.920
That's why people need to read your book?
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:50.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:54.880
Yeah, even if you're not a base, and my my wife loves so many, she's not a baseball fan.
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:55.360
Yeah.
00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:01.039
Uh, but because they are stories about people in a time in North Carolina that is essentially gone.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.760
So that's what I think is cool about it, is that it is, you know, North Carolina stuff, in it.
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:06.159
Right.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.880
And they they just happen to be baseball players, you know.
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:18.960
But you know, they're they're just most of them just regular guys, farm boys, you know, grew tobacco, and you know, did what men of that time in North Carolina did.
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:22.480
Yeah, but it's like nowadays if you're in the major leagues, you're driving a Lamborghini.
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:22.880
That's right.
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:23.440
That's right.
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:23.920
Yeah, no.
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:32.079
Well, I guess the only thing that's left is the minor leagues or like the Jacksonville Ospreys or something like that that would maybe be remotely similar to that.
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.239
Even that's all changed.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:42.079
Um, you know, back in I think 40 in the in the during the war years, there were 40 some odd minor league teams in North Carolina.
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:42.960
There are now 10.
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:47.440
I was gonna say like um and so they were ducks, too.
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:55.599
You know, back then, your your minor leagues rated all the way from D to double A, and D was a little bit better than college ball.
00:37:55.840 --> 00:37:58.320
And double A would be what triple A is today.
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:04.079
But there were all these levels, and you can make a living playing by not even being on the show.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.480
No, you know, you didn't have to play Major League Baseball.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:14.639
But if you were willing to travel, you know, to different teams all over the country and and play, you know, six months a year, yeah, you can make a living.
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.920
And there are many players who have 20-year minor league careers.
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:20.800
But that's crazy because that's like got to be a grind to do that.
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:25.280
You know, they're in the book because they made it into the majors, and it could have only been for an inning.
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:26.159
Oh, yeah, true.
00:38:26.239 --> 00:38:26.320
True.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:27.280
That bad.
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:30.960
But they made it into the majors, but they spent their entire careers in the majors.
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:32.079
Yeah.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:32.719
Yeah.
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:35.360
Yeah, you don't think about that because I mean that's professional ball, too.
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:36.239
And that's all gone.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:37.199
You can't do that anymore.
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:37.920
You just can't.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:44.239
It's it's the the teams have so much invested in these guys that either you're a major league prospect or you're not.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:44.719
All right.
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:46.480
And if you're not, they're gonna let you go.
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.440
There's too much at risk, and they got too much money involved.
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:50.719
Yeah, they're just not.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:51.679
It's it's all different now.
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.280
I took him for Bull Durham.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:53.920
Yes.
00:38:54.480 --> 00:39:06.719
I was gonna say what really kind of painted a picture for me because I didn't grow up playing baseball, and so I don't know a lot about it, but what painted a crazy picture about baseball for me, as far as the business aspect of it, was moneyball.
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:08.400
Yes, that's that was insane.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:09.920
That's a very good portrayal.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:11.840
It is insane, it's savage almost.
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.199
You understand that is that is even 20 years old now.
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:15.519
Right.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.039
Yeah, it's an older movie now.
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:18.559
Yeah, Brad Pitt, Jonah Hill.
00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:22.480
And even when it came out, it was about a previous time yet, even still.
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:22.800
Yeah.
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:27.519
What I baseball now has, and I and it's very hard for me to watch a game.
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:32.320
And I'm I don't I can't say I'm really a Yankee fan anymore.
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:38.960
Because I I I learned that to invest a lot of emotion into something as they're not all of it.
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:46.880
Crassly, crashly profitable uh as a major league sports franchise is pretty silly, really.
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:54.159
And so, yeah, I have this old allegiance to the Yankees from childhood, but I don't watch the games.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.880
I don't know, and and and if they get to the World Series, yeah, I'll reform.
00:39:59.119 --> 00:39:59.440
Yeah.
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:01.679
But so I've changed as well.
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:11.920
And it's and it's because I think baseball is no longer the sport that attracted me as a kid, and it's now become it's very formula.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:20.239
Uh lineup serve, you know, it's it's Casey Stengel would would never make it in in managing a baseball team today.
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:21.760
There's no just no way.
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:22.159
Yeah.
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:25.360
Um, so a lot of the color of the game is gone.
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:28.559
Now you got these millionaires playing for billionaires.
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:29.679
It's business, dude.
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:39.840
And and so, yeah, it's it's yeah, yeah, I'll still be a baseball fan, and I enjoy the the the the magic of the game and the theater of the game, the emotion of the game.
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.960
Nothing prettier than me than a round-the-horn double play.
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.119
Yeah, everything has to work perfectly.
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:45.840
Sure, yeah.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:51.679
Uh, and so yeah, that that'll always be with me, but the fan aspect is pretty much gone.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:41:03.599
It gets like diluted by money on a certain level because eventually it's like, hey, we're just doing this for dollar signs and not because I loved playing on the dirt field when I was 12 years old type deal.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:14.320
To give you an idea, when I was uh 12 or 13 years old, I worked for my uncle at a drugstore in Kings Highway, and I had to work in the afternoons just to help close up.
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:15.920
So I had the days free.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:17.760
And as I said, these were day games.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.440
So that season I spent three or four days a week at Yankee Stadium.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:26.639
Now, my parents never knew they would never allow a 13-year-old to get on the subway to go up to the Bronx.
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:31.440
But I'm at work, and and the games were over, and I had enough time.
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:38.239
My my uncle's drugstore is right beneath the L of the subway, and I had enough time to get to the drugstore by four o'clock.
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:43.280
Um so five bucks, I would take five bucks.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:47.519
I'd get car fare, the subway cost 25 cents each way.
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:53.840
I could buy a reserve seat in Yankee Stadium, old Yankee Stadium, for$2.50.
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:56.639
And I'd be one of four or five thousand.
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:58.719
I mean, that's that's all the place would be virtually empty.
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.320
It's two o'clock on a Wednesday.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:00.559
Right.
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:02.480
The place would be virtually empty.
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.559
Um, you wait to the third or fourth inning, you go down to the usher.
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:11.360
They had ushers with these furry little mitts that would wipe the seat off for you.
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.360
You go down to the usher, give him 50 cents, and he'd put you down the box seat.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:16.079
Oh, nice.
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:17.679
Down behind third base.
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:23.039
So you'd get a hot dog and a Coke, and I'd come home with change.
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:23.599
Five bucks.
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:24.320
Five bucks.
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:24.960
Oh, dude.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.599
Five bucks today, may buy a bottle of water.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:34.960
So it has become to take a family of four to a ball team.
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:35.760
Oh, yeah.
00:42:36.320 --> 00:42:37.440
It's a thousand bucks.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:38.320
Yeah, it's like a tricky.
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:46.159
Yeah, it's a and it it's apparently sustainable because the teams are making money.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:51.039
But but I just, I mean, it's yeah, you gotta really be a hardcore fan to want to go pay that much money.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:52.719
And that's how much it's changed.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.039
Yeah.
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.719
And when you have 20, 25 million dollars invested in a pitcher, you're gonna protect the hell out of them.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.239
That's one guy, one guy.
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.039
Any little ache, anything, yeah.
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:05.119
You know, he goes, he's on the DL.
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:09.599
And and so uh so they're very protective of players now, and they should be.
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:11.440
They got a lot of money invested in them.
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:24.880
Um but it was all, you know, so it's changed, and there's no more, you know, sliding hard into second base with your cleats up or or barreling into the catcher to the score the winning run.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.440
You know, that stuff doesn't exist anymore.
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:29.679
Do you think that it could go backwards?
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:30.639
I don't think so.
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:30.960
Yeah.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:34.480
No, once they make rules, man, they're not gonna that's what I'm saying.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:35.760
I'm just you know, food for the hot.
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:42.400
I don't think a lot of these players would be fit very well in the rough and tumble where it used to be.
00:43:42.719 --> 00:43:42.960
Ow.
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:52.559
When Bob Gibson, very famous, Bob Gibson, very famous pitcher in his uh story about one of the players in the book.
00:43:53.119 --> 00:43:58.159
Bob Gibson was thinking we were called much in the 60s and 70s.
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.519
Uh come on, guy.
00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:03.519
Anyway, go ahead.
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.480
But he was mean.
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:08.719
I mean he was he was an angry man.
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:12.079
Um and when he was on the pitching line, he could be dangerous.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:13.119
Yeah.
00:44:13.519 --> 00:44:19.119
It was well known around the league that you did not, in the National League, dig in.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:26.559
You didn't you didn't take your back foot if you were right behind and dig in because the next pitch would be at your be a trip.
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:27.039
Really?
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:28.559
That was like a sign of disrespect for someone.
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:30.400
That was a sign of disrespect.
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:42.559
So one of the players in the book, Rookie Year, he goes up first at bat against Gibson and he digs in, and everybody in the Dodger dugout, Giants, the Giants said, no.
00:44:44.159 --> 00:44:48.639
And next pitch hits him, breaks, breaks his collarbone.
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:49.679
Oh my gosh.
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.880
And he's out for six weeks of his rookie season.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.920
That'll show you.
00:44:54.159 --> 00:44:55.440
Uh because of Bob Gibson.
00:44:55.679 --> 00:44:58.079
So Bob Gibson couldn't exist today.
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.280
Yeah, there's no way Bob Gibson could pitch today.
00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:07.360
Um, so all that's changed, and maybe for the better, but I'd say it sort of left me behind.
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:08.159
So that's okay.
00:45:08.320 --> 00:45:09.679
A lot of things have left me behind.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:11.599
So well, they could still fight in hockey.
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:12.639
Yeah, they can.
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:13.760
But I'm not a hockey fan.
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:14.239
I know.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.519
Well, I I like the fighting though in the hockey games.
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:22.559
You know, baseball they used to charge the mound, and they both teams would be going at it.
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:25.280
And they still do that on occasion.
00:45:25.440 --> 00:45:26.800
And baseball fights are never.
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:28.639
They're not, yeah, they're always for show.
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.800
They're pushing and shoving and cussing at each other, yeah, yeah.
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:34.480
Kicking dirt on each other's feet.
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:35.199
Yeah.
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:38.559
Yeah, that's why I keep going back to the minor leagues.
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:47.039
Yeah, because if you go on minor league games, still like like Jacksonville Osprey says college league.
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:48.239
And it was great.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:49.519
That was old school baseball.
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:51.119
They're still hungry that at that time.
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.400
I mean, there's barely any bleachers there.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:56.800
You're sitting on lawn chairs on the perimeter.
00:45:56.880 --> 00:46:01.840
I mean, it just has the feel of wow, this is what old school traveling baseball felt like.
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:04.320
They care still, they're trying to make it still.
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:04.800
Yeah.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:10.960
Uh there is a minor league team that's become pretty fun to watch, the Savannah Bananas.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:11.679
Yes.
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:14.480
It's like the Harlem Globetrotters.
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:15.119
Exactly.
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:23.519
And you know, there's and and there's a David Barnhill's profiled in the book, was a good pitcher in the Negro League from Greenville.
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:30.079
Um, and he pitched before he became played for the New York Black Giants.
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.920
He pitched for a team called the Ethiopian clowns.
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:46.559
And they dress up in clown costumes, handy faces, do this pantomime, um, and then play a game of baseball, but still would get down to the yeah.
00:46:47.280 --> 00:47:05.760
So um this was in the 1930s, and it raw it it rubbed the raw nerve with a lot of black fans because you you were turning good ball players into the audio, audio actually.
00:47:06.320 --> 00:47:11.599
And there was a movement then in the 30s that they integrated into the media league.
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:17.440
And the people who supported that thought this is another fulfilling the stereotype.
00:47:18.159 --> 00:47:27.920
So it was very unpopular with the professionals in the in the league of but it was wildly profitable.
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:35.280
Um and the Ethiopian clowns lasted into the 60s well after most black teams had disappeared.
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:42.000
Um because it was a form of entertainment that attracted white audiences and thus they made money.
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:45.039
So I'm not surprised that you have this modern version now.
00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:45.360
Yeah.
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.679
And there's people that say this is zero integrity of the game, they don't like it.
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:51.760
There's people that are like, this is not baseball.
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:54.320
Now now it it doesn't have that racial thing.
00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:56.880
The racial now it's just the game that's gonna be.
00:47:57.039 --> 00:48:01.440
This dude caught he was out in the outfield, he did a backflip and caught it and freaking landed.
00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:03.599
Entertainment.
00:48:04.880 --> 00:48:05.679
Entertainment value.
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:07.840
I find I personally find nothing wrong with it.
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:10.880
Yeah, if they played around here, I'd if there's a time and a place.
00:48:11.119 --> 00:48:11.519
That's what I mean.
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:13.920
Harlem Globetrotters, you know that they're not a real team.
00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:17.119
It's like just you go for the introduction, yeah, being goofy.
00:48:17.440 --> 00:48:19.119
It's the fun and yeah.
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:20.400
It is fun.
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:24.079
I never get another coffee.
00:48:25.599 --> 00:48:32.880
But that you know, there is there is this history back to the Ethiopian clowns that that that was significant in its time.
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:41.440
So yeah, this is what makes your book so great because it's not just about baseball, it's about our history too, and how it inter intertwines with things.
00:48:41.519 --> 00:48:41.760
So yeah.
00:48:42.079 --> 00:48:47.199
That's why I like that it's North Carolina because I've lived in North Carolina longer now than I've lived in Virginia.
00:48:47.280 --> 00:49:00.000
So I consider myself a North Carolinian um from Virginia Beach, but I've lived here longer and I'm yeah, and and there's another thing to think to note that the book, the players in that book, came up at a time when baseball truly was America's game.
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:01.519
Yeah, it was America's game.
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:03.360
There was no rival.
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:06.559
Um and uh it was played everywhere, every school the all.
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:08.079
Yeah, people listen to it on the radio.
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.400
It would go great lengths.
00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.760
My my father-in-law, who lived in North in uh North Carolina, used to listen to the St.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:16.960
Louis Cardinals.
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:22.639
And you'd have to get them late at night, uh maybe here to 60 and on or something.
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:30.800
So, yeah, but but it it it permeated every facet of American life.
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:33.679
So the story of baseball is really about the story of America.
00:49:33.920 --> 00:49:41.679
Yeah, it is an American sport, it didn't develop from cricket and other things, it was on the streets of New York and transport.
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:43.760
Yeah, because it was like stick ball first, right?
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:54.159
With the railroads, as the as the railroads extended across the country, you you can you can plot the baseball along the railroads, yeah.
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.800
The stadium in Fanville is at the intersection of two rail lines.
00:49:59.039 --> 00:50:06.079
You go to a game there, and they're active rail lines with uh you know engines going on both sides, and that's pretty cool.
00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:15.760
The gold rush in California baseball developed within less than a year of the of the strike, there was a baseball team in San Francisco.
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:24.719
And that was because the m they got on these trains in Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston, and went to the West Coast, and baseball went with them.
00:50:25.039 --> 00:50:30.559
It's so crazy how baseball used to be the most popular sport in America, and now it's like barely watched, you know.
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:39.440
I mean, it's uh not I don't have the statistics, but whereas it you know, the majority of people watched it back then or listened to it and you know knew something about it.
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:41.519
Whereas now it's like follow baseball.
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:45.440
And you had uh Babe Ruth leagues, there were there were these youth leagues.
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:53.199
Yeah, uh the American Legion was very popular in North Carolina and and produced and produced some serious baseball players.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:51:19.599
Um there were several colleges in North Carolina, Guildford College, um one of them that that were known as baseball incubators because they had coaches who had connections to someone in the major leagues coming back in Philadelphia or someone so this pipeline develops between the school and the team, and so these little schools end up transporting a dozen baseball pump in our town.
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.559
Yeah, so you know again, all that is gone.
00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:31.840
But but it was part of what North Carolina was, and and I think yeah, I I've tried very hard to try to appeal it's a baseball book, so there's gonna be jargon in there.
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:34.400
If you're not a baseball fan, I don't explain it.
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:38.400
You're gonna have to you're gonna have to get a dictionary, get someone to explain it to you.
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.719
But if you can get past that, it it's a story about North Carolina.
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:51.760
Yeah, and it is stories because like each when you do when you talked about it, because I started when I started reading it, I was like, oh, it's actually like stories of these people, you know.
00:51:52.159 --> 00:51:57.840
And uh, and I don't know, I've heard a couple of the names, like, and you've talked about them already, like catfish hunter.
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:08.079
But like if you don't know anything about these people and you just you know, you don't it's not the whole chapter on this one guy, it's like a blurb or something, and it's enough to be like, damn, you think about how it was back then.
00:52:08.159 --> 00:52:14.719
This dude's working at you know the the mill and also playing and also playing baseball in the you know in the afternoon.
00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:24.079
One of the guys' profile in the book is a guy named Tom Alston, who's from Greensboro, North Carolina, and he's the flat first black North Carolinian to play in the major leagues.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:30.320
He was um he was a big star in the Pacific Coast League in California.
00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:32.800
And he got signed by the Cardinals.
00:52:33.039 --> 00:52:36.239
Augie Bush had just bought the team.
00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:41.519
Um and Bush sold beer, and he wanted to sell beer to everyone.
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:42.639
And uh St.
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:46.639
Louis was pretty much a very southern town in a lot of respects.
00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:51.599
It was segregated, the baseball park was segregated, and the team didn't have any black players.
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:54.880
And Augie said, well, we gotta go find black players.
00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:59.199
So he started the team on this integration.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:04.079
So so they so they signed this kid Alston.
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:13.280
Um they have a big to-do at the hotel in Hollywood, and caviar and bush beer is being served.
00:53:13.599 --> 00:53:14.000
Nice.
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:15.280
And what a combo.
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:20.000
And Alston later said he he and the waiters were the only black guys in the room.
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:30.320
Um but it turned out, you know, it most hitters have weaknesses, and Major League pitchers are gonna find those weaknesses.
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.039
And Alston's was he couldn't hit a high fastball.
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:49.039
And so he got fed a lot of those a steady diet of so he never succeeded, and is one of those guys who became a bad alcoholic, probably as a result.
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:53.599
He spent the latter part of his life in and out of mental institutions.
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:54.320
Damn.
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:54.960
Really?
00:53:55.119 --> 00:54:09.039
Yeah, and he was he was Joe Garrigiola, from from my name, he was an old baseball catcher who became an announcer, and he he had a program that helped down and out old major leaders.
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:09.599
Uh, okay.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:14.000
Because you know, Austin didn't get a pension, he didn't get anything, he didn't last long enough.
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:28.000
So he finally helped uh Austin get out of get out of a he's living in a substandard apartment, and yeah, so he then he got prostate cancer and died, but but Joe sort of rescued him at the end.
00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:30.960
But it's a very sad story, and it's yeah, yeah.
00:54:31.039 --> 00:54:34.320
And imagine how many other people could have used that that kind of help, though.
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.599
And it really because he couldn't hit an inside fastball.
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:38.239
That sucks.
00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:46.719
Yeah, if he And you would think that would be what you trained to do it because for some hitters, that's like don't throw them a high fastball because it's going out of the park.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:52.239
So yeah, so it's one of the sta it's one of the standard stories you do.
00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:53.679
Yeah, that sucks, man.
00:54:53.840 --> 00:55:16.960
So the cool thing, and that like I want to ask you about like your research and writing the book and just like the whole pretty much uh your journalism career about studying North Carolina and athletes from North Carolina is I talk about this with my friends all the time that when we grew up playing sports together, I grew up playing three sports my entire life until I was 25, and there's something very special to me about specifically southeastern North Carolina.
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:24.320
There is so much athletic talent that comes from this area, it's insane in all sports, not just baseball.
00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:29.440
There's something in the water here, something about North Carolina that produces great athletes.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:31.199
Is that would you agree with that?
00:55:31.440 --> 00:55:38.960
Uh yeah, but I don't have having never spent a lot of time in other states doing a bias, because I'm from here.
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:41.440
I don't really have a way to make quantify that.
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:45.039
Yeah, I can't quantify it in any way, but yeah, certainly.
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:54.559
Um I'm just kind of piggybacking on your statement of like the baseball incubator schools, the small schools, that you you find these hidden gems of athletes that come from nowhere, Bill.
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:55.599
Right, right.
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.480
But but again, there was there was a method there.
00:55:58.639 --> 00:55:59.760
I mean, it just didn't happen.
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:00.320
Right.
00:56:00.480 --> 00:56:12.000
Uh if if you were in the 1920s, if if you were a high school baseball player with real talent, you're gonna be said, well, maybe you should transfer when you go to college.
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:13.760
Maybe guilty.
00:56:14.079 --> 00:56:14.559
Right, right.
00:56:14.800 --> 00:56:18.800
Because everyone knew that was the easiest pipeline for the major leads.
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:25.119
And it was because the coach by name Holt had developed that pipeline for 20 years.
00:56:25.360 --> 00:56:25.920
It's the way.
00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:29.679
And so, yeah, so it there was a method there, it just didn't happen.
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:30.079
Sure.
00:56:30.320 --> 00:56:31.519
It it was developed.
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:38.000
Um, but yeah, that it and they were if you look at where these players came from, they they came from all over the place.
00:56:38.239 --> 00:56:38.719
Sure.
00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:54.559
Um, but you know, certainly the metropolitan areas, because metropolitan areas, have the highest number, but if you broke it down per capita, I mean it's little mill towns um in in near Charlotte that produced four baseball players.
00:56:54.880 --> 00:56:56.800
Place had a population of 300.
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:57.360
Right.
00:56:58.239 --> 00:57:00.000
So it's that kind of stuff.
00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:00.480
Yeah.
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:03.760
It's it's it's just interesting to think about that.
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:10.400
Like, you know, the people that you you just turn a rock over, and then there's an all-star baseball player here that, you know, where was he from?
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:11.519
Where'd you come from?
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:12.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:12.719 --> 00:57:18.000
Yeah, we had uh I had an NFL player come out of my high school, uh, Plaxico Burris.
00:57:18.239 --> 00:57:19.599
Oh, snap knowing it too.
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:23.599
Uh he shot himself in the leg at a nightclub because he had a gun in his pants.
00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:24.079
Stupid.
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:25.199
Cheddar Bob.
00:57:26.320 --> 00:57:29.360
I didn't know him, but he was a senior and I was a freshman.
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:32.960
But uh I'm sorry, it's loud vehicle day today here in Swansboro.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:39.760
Cummings diesel over there, so like, dude, we don't want to hear this.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:43.760
You know, like I don't think it's that truck, I think it's the one behind it.
00:57:44.079 --> 00:57:46.719
We just do like a little intermission real quick until that subsides.
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:48.079
I want to go slap this person.
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:48.880
I want to go back to the case.
00:57:49.199 --> 00:57:51.760
Can you see we're trying to do a freaking podcast over here?
00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:53.840
Have some Hey, I'm walking here.
00:57:54.000 --> 00:57:55.199
I'm walking here.
00:57:56.159 --> 00:57:58.639
Uh yeah, that that's a sad freaking thing, man.
00:57:58.719 --> 00:58:00.880
The dude didn't couldn't hit a inside.
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:09.360
So when you were saying like about the fastball thing, is that like it planted a seed in his head that he just couldn't get over that hump and it drove him to drinking and stuff?
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:11.360
He was he was a pioneer.
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:12.239
He was the first.
00:58:12.320 --> 00:58:20.880
And there weren't at the time that many, though he was the first black player on the Cardinals, there there were still weren't that many black players in the Major League.
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:23.039
So there was a lot of pressure on him to succeed.
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:23.760
Oh yeah.
00:58:23.920 --> 00:58:35.199
And because alcohol was so readily available in the clubhouse after a game or drink three or four beers, um that that then became a crush.
00:58:35.280 --> 00:58:38.800
And and then it it had serious effects on life.
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:52.159
And that's crazy how much like uh psychology does come into sports, especially when it's your life, like and that's your that is what you do and what you're good at, and if you encounter this obstacle that you can't get over, right?
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:56.079
It's crazy what a seed it can plant in your head, especially if that if that's your identity.
00:58:56.239 --> 00:59:05.920
I am a baseball player, and plus, you know, often face the racism that you know black players in most cases don't face today.
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:08.239
Um you know, St.
00:59:08.400 --> 00:59:10.079
Louis wasn't a real welcoming town.
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:10.400
Sure.
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.440
But the players weren't very welcoming.
00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:20.880
Uh in fact, they had to so we'd have a roommate, they they have to bring up a a minor league black pitcher.
00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:24.000
So have a roommate just so we'd have a roommate.
00:59:24.239 --> 00:59:24.559
Right.
00:59:24.800 --> 00:59:38.880
Um and and it you know, so so when you're working in that kind of environment, knowing you're the first, um having the competitive zeal to want to succeed, and then you can't.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:39.199
Yeah.
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:44.400
In his case, of course, he couldn't hit major league inside fastball.
00:59:44.559 --> 00:59:44.880
Right.
00:59:45.119 --> 00:59:47.119
Um, and then got exploited for it.
00:59:47.440 --> 00:59:47.599
Right.
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.880
Every time he was at the fleet.
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.239
I mean, and and and so, yeah, he it didn't amount to much.
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:54.079
Thing that's crazy to think, though.
00:59:54.719 --> 00:59:59.360
And you know, he had nothing else to no other real skill to to fall back on.
00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:02.159
So yeah, his his life sort of deteriorated.
01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:07.199
I mean, it's yeah, I don't know.
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:19.039
It's it when you add the added pressure of the stress of the times and what you're going through as a player, you know, dealing with that adversity on top of the other right.
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:19.920
That's right.
01:00:20.079 --> 01:00:20.400
Yeah.
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:35.039
I mean, you look at uh you look at all the people that have overcome racism and all the talent that came out of that, and then you hear this and you think all the talent we lost because we've never been spoken on ever that we don't even know about.
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:36.320
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:40.639
And hopefully we're moving in the right direction now with it, but yeah.
01:00:41.519 --> 01:00:42.719
That's an awesome book.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:43.760
I can't wait to read it.
01:00:43.920 --> 01:00:54.880
I think uh and and in a competitive situation, in a professional sports situation, racism is not only morally wrong, it's it's stupid.
01:00:55.280 --> 01:01:04.320
It is and and the famous example is the Yankee scout who signed Mickey Mantle, had an opportunity to also sign Willie Mays.
01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:12.239
So the Yankees could have had an infield of Boole May straight up and Roger Malls.
01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:20.159
Um, but he was told by Yankee management that no, they had enough black players, they had to sign one, Elston Howard.
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:21.760
What a miss that is.
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:29.920
And so that agent to his dying day always said that you know, racism is not all morally wrong.
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:31.440
It's it's stupid.
01:01:31.679 --> 01:01:35.360
And in this case, I mean it it cost the Yankees dearly.
01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:38.320
Um and so possibly a legacy.
01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:45.599
And and so thankfully those days are gone, but it was guys like Austin who were the pioneers in that who faced the brunt.
01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:48.639
Those things change slowly.
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:54.480
And uh it it it it it it it certainly added to his stress.
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:55.039
Yeah.
01:01:55.760 --> 01:02:04.559
I can't, I mean, I it's no way to even imagine it, you know, because dealing with one thing and then a whole societal issue outside of the sport.
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:05.519
Yeah.
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:18.719
So, you know, the book, the book, I mean I tried, I try in the book to point out those kinds of trends that were happening, which in many cases was societal, not only just because baseball reflected uh society it it was in.
01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:22.079
And so I hope that comes out in the book.
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:25.039
So now where the book's available on Amazon.
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:27.280
Yeah, it's it's available at about anywhere.
01:02:27.519 --> 01:02:39.679
Amazon, Google, um some bookstores, and that's a matter of the economics of the book publishing that I don't really want to get into, but um, but you could you would be able to order it at a bookstore.
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:42.639
Some might carry it, but most I think you're gonna have to order it.
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:44.559
But you can get it from the publisher, McFarland.
01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:50.079
And we'll have a link in the description as well, because I ordered this one, and I'm gonna get you to sign this one before we go.
01:02:51.360 --> 01:02:54.400
Um and I ordered this one on Amazon, so it's super easy to do.
01:02:54.480 --> 01:02:54.880
Check it out.
01:02:55.039 --> 01:02:56.159
Tar Hill Boys of Summer.
01:02:56.320 --> 01:02:58.239
We'll have a description in the in the uh now.
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:00.320
This is your fourth published book, correct?
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:00.880
Yes.
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:02.159
What are your other ones about?
01:03:02.400 --> 01:03:08.719
There are local histories in a book on Winston Salem, which is still the definitive history of the city.
01:03:09.119 --> 01:03:10.079
A book on R.J.
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:17.679
Reynolds Tobacco Company, and it was the leader in the decades-long effort to hide the health effects of cigarettes.
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:18.800
Oh man.
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:21.760
Um, yeah, they they're books like that.
01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:22.559
Damn.
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:23.199
That's cool.
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:24.559
Did you ever smoke cigarettes?
01:03:24.800 --> 01:03:25.280
I did.
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:25.760
Yeah.
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:30.639
I quit when my daughter was born, and she's now 40 in her forties or so.
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:33.440
Yeah, I quit in 2008.
01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:38.400
Yeah, it's cigars are way better anyway.
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:39.519
Cigarettes are gross.
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:42.159
My mom quit when she got pregnant.
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:43.760
Oh, she smoked again.
01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:44.320
Oh, yeah.
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:48.079
No, mine, mine off and on over the years, quit.
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:49.119
Smoke, quit, smoke.
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:57.599
I have a family that like at Thanksgiving, it's like when everybody gets done eating, there is a migration to outside after they eat to oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:02.000
Well, see, mine is always mine cigars now, so I do the same thing, but it's cigars now.
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:10.960
So you so then you had a I was gonna talk about writing because I'm trying to uh try my hand at it too, but you had an entire career.
01:04:11.199 --> 01:04:17.280
Did you ever get burnt out because you have to just you were talking about the other day, like writer's block, being like nobody gets writer's block.
01:04:17.519 --> 01:04:18.239
There's no such thing.
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:20.880
Yeah, you know, in the newspaper business, there's no such thing.
01:04:20.960 --> 01:04:21.920
I mean, you really can't.
01:04:22.079 --> 01:04:26.320
I mean, uh, you got a story that's due, five o'clock, six o'clock, you know.
01:04:26.719 --> 01:04:28.559
It's it's part of the process here.
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:29.039
Right.
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:30.639
Um it doesn't stop.
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:36.159
You know, again, I'm I'm going back to a time that doesn't exist anymore in newspapers.
01:04:36.400 --> 01:04:44.159
But but um I mean, what came out, the newspaper that came out that day was the mass effort of hundreds of people.
01:04:44.400 --> 01:04:44.559
Right.
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:54.079
Um for any anywhere from, you know, I was at the one end, a reporter, all the way down to the guy who put the put the papers in the truck and drove the truck to the delivery point.
01:04:54.639 --> 01:04:57.119
Um, so you're just part of the cog.
01:04:57.440 --> 01:04:57.679
Yeah.
01:04:57.920 --> 01:05:02.719
And you can't, you got an assignment that you got due at six o'clock.
01:05:02.880 --> 01:05:08.079
You can't go to your editor at five o'clock and say, you know, the Muse wasn't with me.
01:05:08.480 --> 01:05:10.880
Oh man, I'm just not feeling inspired.
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:11.920
Maybe tomorrow.
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:12.880
I don't feel good.
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:18.000
Now they'll find something to put in a hole that you just created.
01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:22.320
Um, but uh there won't be much patience for that.
01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:22.719
Right.
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:25.440
Um I don't I don't think you'd get away with it one time.
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:27.280
You certainly wouldn't get away with it two times.
01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:29.039
So you'd be fine something else to do.
01:05:29.280 --> 01:05:34.559
So we used to say, you know, the writers block for amateurs, you know, you you gotta produce I like that though.
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:43.599
You you you become when you work on the deadlines, the clock is the master, yeah, and you just you know that maybe today's not your best stuff.
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:43.920
Right.
01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:48.880
You know, maybe if you did this tomorrow it would be better, but you don't have that, you don't have the luxury.
01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:59.679
So you do what you do knowing it's ephemeral, you know, it's in the newspaper, it's gone the next day, so you know you you gotta know that.
01:06:00.239 --> 01:06:00.400
chance.
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:03.840
So uh no you didn't you know you just couldn't.
01:06:03.920 --> 01:06:05.440
You know you weren't you weren't Hemingway.
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:05.920
You know what I mean?
01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:11.679
But you didn't feel like No yeah but you didn't feel like you were you you know you got burnout or anything like that.
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:14.559
Did you do other kind of writing when you were back when you were a journalist?
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:20.239
Oh yeah I mean it was common in newspapers to do because that was part of the training process.
01:06:20.719 --> 01:06:37.840
So every young reporter if they were in the news side of the not writing features or something or sports um you'd be a cop reporter um because that was a very quick way to weed out people who really weren't suited for this.
01:06:39.119 --> 01:06:45.119
Because you would you would you would quickly know the underside of life in whatever town you were in.
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:45.519
Yeah.
01:06:46.079 --> 01:06:52.480
And some people can handle that and some people can't and if you can't handle it you're probably not going to make a good journalist.
01:06:52.960 --> 01:07:08.800
So you were that dude with the little press pass up in your hat that ran towards the your cop reporting you tried to make be as inconspicuous as you can and it was you you try to develop relationships with mine cops.
01:07:09.039 --> 01:07:12.000
Yeah so that way you can get close I can get access.
01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:12.480
Yeah.
01:07:12.719 --> 01:07:18.639
So um yeah there was this one instance in Miami where um what a place to be doing that.
01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:35.039
Miami had a very famous cop reporter Edna Buchanan and she was a crusty when I knew her she was in her 50s she was a crusty broad and and she wouldn't mind that description um she was a crusty broad and she loved this stuff.
01:07:35.119 --> 01:07:38.559
I mean she really loved covering murders and rapes and I mean she did.
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:45.440
And she had souvenirs that after the trial was done there'd be the cut the set of handcuffs.
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:50.400
Oh my Jesus yeah she if she wasn't a writer she'd have been a serial killer.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:08:04.320
You know Edna Edna Edna you know obviously they had more than one cop reporter but if it was a major crime that happened anywhere in three counties Edna was going to be the one but so I was this secondary cop reporter.
01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:13.679
So it was one night and get a get here on the we all had police scanners and you hear on the scanner that they would dispatch to a mobile home park south of town.
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:18.960
So I get there and there's yellow tape all around the place and it's a mobile home and the cops everywhere.
01:08:19.039 --> 01:08:35.199
And I you know again because I knew one of the cops he let me by the window he let me in the crime scene but he led me to the window where I could see into the bedroom where a guy came home caught his wife in bed and decided to settle everything with a shotgun.
01:08:35.439 --> 01:08:40.079
Damn damn so he killed he he killed the wife and her lover.
01:08:40.319 --> 01:08:53.680
Oh my God and so I peek into the bed in the in the room and the bed's a bloody mess but I noticed on the ceiling the woman was blonde headed and there was strands of blonde hair stuck to the ceiling.
01:08:53.760 --> 01:09:08.479
Wow blowing in the air conditioning waving holy shit dude so I included that detail in the story never thinking thought that the copy desk would get a chuckle and edit it out and that's what I did.
01:09:08.960 --> 01:09:26.720
Oh they printed it I give the copy editor a chuckle so I put this detail in the store and it goes through well the phone the next day I ruined your breakfast why did I have to but I'm not I'm actually proud of doing that.
01:09:27.680 --> 01:10:46.239
It puts you in that room right yeah and I didn't describe the goal you'll remember this article I you know I mentioned nothing about the guts on the headboard or none of that just this one and yeah but it it it blew people away in Miami so pun intended too soon yeah too soon blew people away ooh choice of words yeah I would have thought but but uh but you do you know then you then you graduated I was a sports writer and and I might I ended up but those but that you so you're talking about that that was what you did for work did you on the side though did you do any for yourself writing I did freelance writing yeah because you do that now you do substance I don't try to sell stuff anymore but um yeah but you know it when I ended my my last job in newspaper journalism was you know I was environmental reporter in North Carolina I was the senior I'd done it for 15 years um and I was doing long form journalism you know stuff that would take months to do oh wow like that series on RJ Reynolds that took eight or nine months um that we published in the paper and then later in a book but um that it became clear to me in the early tw 2000s that that that part of the the business was quickly disappearing because it was expensive.
01:10:46.479 --> 01:10:50.000
I didn't have to re you know I wasn't filing a story every day now.
01:10:50.159 --> 01:10:50.399
Right.
01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.479
I would take months and that that takes money.
01:10:52.720 --> 01:11:00.479
Is that by way of like digital media as well or well did digit in the early 2000s papers were just maturing their websites.
01:11:00.560 --> 01:11:42.319
You know they all played with it and it took 10 years to get them still an idea form almost right so uh but I realized that the kind of journalism I did and now enjoyed doing this long form journalism that took months yeah that wasn't going to be so I left and and uh on my own before they kicked me out the door um and work came down that's what got me down here and worked for the Coastal Federation where I was a coast keeper for 10 years riding a boat and looking and then Todd Miller who who runs the Federation and I were very close friends and we would bitch about the lack of meaningful journalism coverage for the issues we were dealing with.
01:11:42.560 --> 01:11:46.000
And we relied on a educated public.
01:11:46.079 --> 01:12:00.880
You know if if we're we're dealing with you know water pollution issues or erosion people have to know the basics and and that was the job of journalists you know to to to provide that kind of context about well that wasn't being done anymore.
01:12:01.520 --> 01:12:09.920
We complained complained about so finally we started our own um news service Coastal Review um in 2014.
01:12:10.319 --> 01:12:20.880
And it's now you know the most most respected source of environmental coverage in North Carolina won hundreds of press awards cool and that's what I that's what I retired from.
01:12:21.199 --> 01:12:27.039
So now I'm doing a podcast which when I started the word wasn't even known you know that's that's true that's true.
01:12:27.279 --> 01:12:35.760
No one invented that word yeah and and and I ended in the digital in the digital era so if anything you you you can teach an old dog new tricks.
01:12:35.920 --> 01:12:42.720
Yeah well you know people are going away from newspapers and stuff too I like a physical newspaper just like I like a physical book.
01:12:43.119 --> 01:12:44.800
But it it's now very expensive.
01:12:44.960 --> 01:13:03.359
And that's that except for things like the big paper, New York Times maybe the Washington Post but except for the the tr the papers with worldwide reach right yeah there's coming there there won't be you you won't have uh actual physical news it's all websites now it's you get the news on your phone it's just very expensive.
01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:20.800
We do have local one we have onsla business which is decent it covers Dunjournal local business issues other you know things that have been uh going on the community and everything it's I don't know how many locations you can get it at button we've got the Thailand news as well for around here.
01:13:21.119 --> 01:13:41.680
I think Jacksonville Daily News is still printing uh think alike wow they uh still down they're still out there they're just not as prominent as they used to yeah no but that's and I signed up I had the Jacksonville Daily News which it's Associated Press Associated Press well then why am I getting this paper?
01:13:42.000 --> 01:14:21.920
You know when when I worked for the journal in Winston-Salem we were one of the largest newspapers in the state the newsroom had almost 200 employees um today yeah it still prints um I think there are seven reporters in the building oh crap um you know and they do and that and they they're spreading their time with sports and county government right county government city government everything um and so yeah they exist the paper some pay it's still printing yeah but they are mere shadows of what they used to be um yeah the newspaper world I grew up in you you can still you you but you'd have to go to the New York Times or the Washington Post.
01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:24.800
And for a writer it was invaluable.
01:14:24.960 --> 01:14:34.079
I mean it truly was it was a great training ground editors I I never minded editors reading my work and making changes it was part of the process.
01:14:35.119 --> 01:14:42.560
And a good editor made you better and and and you knew who the good ones were and who weren't and and uh so you paid attention to the good ones.
01:14:42.640 --> 01:14:47.520
Yeah you ignored the fools and you know and and um and so you became better.
01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:58.079
Yeah um and it also seems like a situation too that you would have to be able to humble yourself to take criticism from somebody as well because you have to be able to take stuff with a grain of salt to be able to be told about yourself.
01:14:58.399 --> 01:15:04.880
You know most most writers who become so personally attached to their work they don't make it in the newspaper business.
01:15:04.960 --> 01:15:10.960
They don't you know they may try and they last a year and they go on to do magazine or something else that's more suited to them.
01:15:11.600 --> 01:15:24.079
But in in the newspaper world no you you didn't because once I you know I started with manual typewriters but you know once I handed the copy or later hit the sent key um it was gone.
01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:29.199
It was no longer me right it was my contribution to the day.
01:15:29.359 --> 01:15:43.760
Sure and if there was going to be a because you know you you also established a reputation in a newsroom and I had a reputation of being a solid reporter and writer so no one would make a major change without consulting me.
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:52.079
But if if they wanted to change a verb or sentence structure or okay you know I'm not gonna get upset about it.
01:15:52.239 --> 01:15:52.560
Yeah.
01:15:53.119 --> 01:15:57.039
But you learn to do that because it's you you can't I mean you just can't.
01:15:57.600 --> 01:16:03.199
Because again it's it's you would drive yourself psycho otherwise and and it's again it's your daily contribution.
01:16:03.359 --> 01:16:06.399
Tomorrow's another day you you start all over tomorrow.
01:16:06.800 --> 01:16:10.880
Damn so let me not good or bad you did yesterday yesterday's over.
01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:12.159
Let me ask you this question.
01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:22.560
So from like cop reporter to journalism to sports and all that did that did your career kind of just morph on its own or did you take these avenues on your own decision or just kind of changed in that way?
01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:35.199
In the old newsrooms they knew your talents and and so a good editor would mold move you to places where your talents were best.
01:16:35.439 --> 01:16:35.760
Okay.
01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:47.600
So it was clear you know that my talents were in deep reporting and this long form journalism and so that's where I I was allowed to migrate.
01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:50.479
They never offered resistance.
01:16:50.880 --> 01:17:33.520
It's what I wanted to do and they offered the path to do that because they saw that's what my talent was uh there were some who you know you know Lenno Rawlings um one of the best newspapers uh sports columnists that ever put word to to a computer screen that was his talent and and though Lennox did other things in our newsroom he was our sports columnist guy he was the insightful sports columnist so yeah newsrooms recognize those talents over time and and shape the the the room the the the duties so that they fit your talents yeah so then you went to the Coastal Federation you retired from there and then you were a commissioner here in the town of Swansburg.
01:17:36.319 --> 01:18:10.399
You know you were the mayor pro tem that's because you got the most votes no the the boards elected me oh they okay okay okay so the boards elected me to the to the pro tem position I gotcha um but I served eight years I you know it was rewarding in a lot of respects and um disappointing in some but that's life and uh but after eight years I'm I I've become I was never a believer in term limits until we had this crazy gerrymandering that we see in states and and if you can't allow politicians to choose their voters that's not a good idea.
01:18:10.720 --> 01:18:22.399
So if if that's the system we we work under then yeah I'm I'm a proponent of of setting a limit to how how right so I we don't have a term limit in North Carolina but I thought eight years was enough.
01:18:22.479 --> 01:18:52.159
Yeah given what time and talent I had let someone else do it and I'm now on the planning board so I can stay involved and help out in that regard but yeah yeah we were uh it was it was a pretty funny time when elections were happening because we were all telling Frank we were gonna and we did it we ended up writing him in for mayor but Mickey Mouse got moved Mickey Mouse and Superman got more actually kind of impressive yeah but you got like eight votes didn't you or something yeah something like that.
01:18:52.479 --> 01:18:58.960
So Frank uh your journalism skills how what transferred over to being a commissioner or being a mayor?
01:18:59.439 --> 01:20:16.800
Um a lot actually because you know as a journalist as a reporter I had I you know I I really don't know how many people I've talked to it's in the thousands yeah but you have to develop these kinds of skills to and be able to get get gauge a room and understand how far you can go um with your questioning and and and so you develop these interpersonal skills uh you develop research skills um writing skills and all of that I think holds you in good steed for a lot of things in life uh but certainly in politics in local politics um because you know I I you know I I was very you know I issues came before us you know I I learned as a commissioner we we always say well this is a hard decision well no no it's not really once you boil and that's another thing journalists do is boil things down to their basics you know I have no I would have notebooks full of stuff two thirds of which I would never use right but they would help me in the forming of the story so I would you're able to take vast amounts of information put it down to the simplest and I found that almost every issue we face you can boil that down to a yes or no do I vote yes or no on this?
01:20:17.279 --> 01:20:18.560
It's really that simple.
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:22.319
And I'm sure you you're gonna piss people off no matter which way you regardless.
01:20:22.560 --> 01:20:40.319
Yeah of course but you're making an informed you know vote so to answer your question yeah I think there are a lot of skills that the old newspaper journalists and I'm I can't talk for radio or TV sure but old newspaper journalists developed because of the system that that they worked under that then transfers very well.
01:20:40.800 --> 01:21:31.039
No that was yeah that was excellent yeah I'm I mean I feel like uh working on the radio has helped like boil down to a simple form of communication skills just it's it's communication talking to people breaking things down I got 10 seconds before the lyrics of a song start and I want to tell you about something that happened well it's word economy how can I make this long thing like you said that short no one has worked under the pressure unless you're at Carmichael Auditorium Carolina versus Duke and it goes into quadruple overtime it was a nine o'clock game a nine o'clock televised game which means it didn't end till 11 at best my last edition deadline we used to have five edition my last edition deadline well the the edition they won a final story was the next to the last and that was at 1115.
01:21:31.359 --> 01:22:10.479
Wow and this game goes into quadruple overtime we didn't have computers I was on a I was on a manual type router and literally typing paragraphs ripping them off handing them to a kid who worked at the for the sports information department carolina handing them to a kid who would then transmit it to the newsroom oh my god and then you you you put together that piecemeal story for that edition and you had I had one more edition to polish it up so I'd have to go down to the locker room get some quotes come back and have maybe 15 minutes to write the final story.
01:22:10.720 --> 01:22:34.399
I couldn't call up and say hey you know what no muse in the locker room today so um so yeah so but it's that kind of pressure particularly sports and yeah I did it because I wanted to do it but then it was time to move on oh my god I can imagine yeah yeah I I never worked I'd imagine after that game you're probably like what the f what am I doing I never worked hard I never worked harder in my life than as as a sports writer.
01:22:34.640 --> 01:23:10.880
Oh god this was in the days before computers yeah yeah yeah and then and typewriters aren't fucking light we had a we had a contraption called a tele telecopier it was just a a roll that spun and you had to type on white paper and if you used uh IBM Selectric you had to use a specific font a little ball that would fit in the typewriter and it transmitted at six minutes you put you you put a headphone receiver into this thing and it transmitted in either 12 minutes or six minutes.
01:23:11.199 --> 01:23:22.960
Okay so one page would take 12 minutes now if you had a 15 inch story that's about a page and a half so you had to submit you had to send two pages you had to figure in the transmit time.
01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:32.880
The copy desk always wanted you to do it at the 12 minute because it was there there was less garble at the end that they would then have to try to fill it in.
01:23:33.520 --> 01:23:43.520
So if you're gonna two pages it's that's 24 minutes that you slice off your deadline just to transmit it back to the newsroom.
01:23:43.760 --> 01:25:53.680
So yeah when you work under those kinds of yeah it uh it takes a special and I have some very dear friends who retired as sports writers spent 30 years at it it takes a very special person to do that particularly now when you have so many games and and and the conference the ACC back when I reported what six seventeen the farthest you went was Washington DC or Clemson South Carolina that's that's and most were on so-called tobacco road you know through North Carolina uh now the conferences are where you got one on West Coast I mean so yeah SMU and and so but newspapers nowadays they don't they don't they don't staff it the way they used to no I can't yeah I can imagine they don't call our our associates over in blah blah blah yeah so yeah but it was a special time um but oh there was somebody else that you interviewed that's super famous who tricky dick said be more specific tricky dick oh yeah Dick Nixon Richard Nixon um after his presidency yeah after his presidency for those of your long young listeners who might not know Nixon resigned in what 74 I think 73 74 after Watergate um and he spent a long time in sort of hermitage in California he was a disgraced president yeah um and so uh but slowly he started to refurbish his reputation and so here comes I must have been the mid-90s and he was speaking to the state Republican Party convention which was in Winston Salem and again I had 15 minutes I didn't get rained out was it raining I was gonna say was it raining luckily because I I I think we we probably wouldn't have gotten along but but um I have to say I spent his 15 you know he he's well he's well practiced in dealing with yeah yeah yeah so so all his answers were clipped he he or his people had anticipated you know most of my questions and I tried to throw him some zingers and he'd just laugh and wouldn't laugh and wouldn't answer them.
01:25:53.920 --> 01:26:00.239
So uh you know it it went as I expected sort of forma but yeah I sat as close as you are to me to Richard Nixon.
01:26:00.399 --> 01:27:40.000
That's pretty cool I will tell you uh Nixon story though I was living on working on Kibiscane um this was in working on what on the island of Kibisca working for a little newspaper there in the mid-70s Nixon had when he was president he had what they called his southern white house on Kibiscane he had a house on Bay Lane which ran to the Biscayne Bay and dead ended and during his presidency of course it was it was secured you know it was fenced off and there were cameras and so then he resigned and now the Secret Service says well we don't need to maintain this secure compound anymore but the neighbors had gotten sort of used to this sort of seclusion and they included some very wealthy people uh the guy one guy Robert Abelknap multimillionaire and he invented the nozzle on spray can Jesus yeah and uh so there there were wealthy people who lived along Bay Lane who wanted the street Secret Service said fine but the county don't have to pay for it so that then became this year-long debate about whether to open Bay Lane that's crazy so finally the county decided no they weren't gonna pay for it so they opened Bay Lane so the day Bay Lane opens I live two blocks away I had a dog Che street dog from Greenville he was part husky and Che was a wonderful dog except the other male dogs but we went out for a walk and poor Che had to do his business said no Jay and I'm dragging him to two blocks to Bay Lane.
01:27:40.159 --> 01:28:02.159
Finally I picked him up and he was about 60 pounds I picked him up because I didn't want him to poop before we got to Nixon's house so I plopped him down on Nixon's front yard and Che took a dump and I had a picture which I'm sorry I have never found of ordinary Was just Che taking a dump.
01:28:02.479 --> 01:28:04.319
Uh you couldn't see the house behind it.
01:28:04.560 --> 01:28:06.079
But I knew it was Nixon's car.
01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:08.960
So he he took a dump on Nixon's front lawn.
01:28:09.199 --> 01:28:10.239
Oh, nice.
01:28:12.800 --> 01:28:14.479
You're not proving before we get to Nixon's.
01:28:14.880 --> 01:28:16.079
Hold it, hold it.
01:28:17.199 --> 01:28:18.319
That's my Nixon story.
01:28:18.640 --> 01:28:21.920
But that's not your only famous uh politician story, huh?
01:28:22.159 --> 01:28:23.199
RFK Jr.
01:28:23.600 --> 01:28:24.079
Yeah.
01:28:24.319 --> 01:28:27.199
Um did you know he was this freaking famous?
01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:27.840
No.
01:28:28.880 --> 01:28:33.279
RFK Jr., I I work when I worked at Coast Federation, I was a Coastkeeper.
01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:41.840
We were members of the Waterkeepers Alliance, which is a national group who's done some very good work around the world.
01:28:42.319 --> 01:28:42.479
Right.
01:28:42.880 --> 01:28:45.439
Um protecting streams and rivers.
01:28:45.520 --> 01:28:47.840
And RFK helped start that.
01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:51.279
He he was a very successful environmental lawyer.
01:28:51.520 --> 01:28:53.520
Um it helped clean up the Hudson River.
01:28:53.680 --> 01:28:59.920
There's a lot to be said about RFK's legacy as an environmental protector.
01:29:00.720 --> 01:29:02.399
And that's what I knew him during this.
01:29:02.800 --> 01:29:03.600
I didn't know him.
01:29:05.119 --> 01:29:05.680
You met him, though.
01:29:05.840 --> 01:29:07.119
I met him a couple of times.
01:29:07.279 --> 01:29:10.319
Because we'd have these conferences and we'd have to go to the conference.
01:29:10.720 --> 01:29:14.880
His daddy was probably my last political hero.
01:29:15.359 --> 01:29:18.399
And um I was very excited to meet him the first time.
01:29:18.640 --> 01:29:27.840
Um and I told him how much he followed him to me, and I I remember we won't get into the assassination store because I'm not a hero, but uh it's very busy.
01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:31.840
Um and um I got no reaction.
01:29:32.079 --> 01:29:56.800
I mean, oh yeah, I I'd gotten a picture that I had found in a bookstore in Boston of uh Kennedy daddy, Bob Kennedy, with him on Sit Night, and he was probably three or four years old sitting on his lap and gave it to him and he took it and said, Yeah, I think this is in the family collection or something, but couldn't be bothered.
01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:03.680
Yeah, and and uh he traveled around with an entourage of water keepers that adored him.
01:30:04.319 --> 01:30:10.720
Um and it was very clickish and clannish, and I stopped going to the conferences because I just didn't feel comfortable in them.
01:30:11.279 --> 01:30:18.880
Um but yeah, I I I I knew nothing about his stance on vaccinations and what he did with roadkill.
01:30:19.039 --> 01:30:20.479
I knew none of nothing of that.
01:30:20.880 --> 01:30:31.039
But he was very standoffish, very not very personable, not very welcoming to someone outside the circle.
01:30:31.279 --> 01:30:34.960
And uh so yeah, I I didn't come away with a good impression.
01:30:35.279 --> 01:30:40.560
Yeah, my mom said he used to chase her around with uh like a four-wheeler or something.
01:30:40.640 --> 01:30:41.119
What's up?
01:30:42.000 --> 01:30:43.279
Oh crap, is it dead?
01:30:43.520 --> 01:30:44.159
Not yet.
01:30:44.880 --> 01:30:45.600
I got you.
01:30:46.319 --> 01:30:48.399
We didn't do that, we did not do that.
01:30:53.359 --> 01:30:54.720
Looking in the camera, folks.
01:30:55.359 --> 01:30:56.560
It's not dead yet.
01:30:58.560 --> 01:31:00.079
Good thing I looked over there.
01:31:04.720 --> 01:31:05.600
Thank you.
01:31:10.159 --> 01:31:12.560
This might be our best episode yet, honestly.
01:31:13.760 --> 01:31:15.359
You guys edit this stuff out.
01:31:16.880 --> 01:31:18.479
People see all the warts and everything.
01:31:18.800 --> 01:31:20.239
Yeah, when we leave it in.
01:31:20.479 --> 01:31:21.199
Alright, cool.
01:31:21.439 --> 01:31:23.039
Like we've done that in the past.
01:31:23.439 --> 01:31:25.600
Like in the beginning when we're like, okay, you ready?
01:31:25.680 --> 01:31:26.239
Are you ready?
01:31:26.319 --> 01:31:29.119
And you'll hear us saying that sometimes, and it's just funnier that way.
01:31:29.760 --> 01:31:30.560
It's more real.
01:31:30.720 --> 01:31:31.359
Yeah.
01:31:32.159 --> 01:31:34.159
It's like when people come in, we're like, just walk in.
01:31:34.239 --> 01:31:35.279
It's it's a cigar shop.
01:31:35.439 --> 01:31:38.479
We've I mean the the show is meant to be interrupted and stuff.
01:31:38.560 --> 01:31:41.439
That's why you listen to those stupid diesel trucks earlier.
01:31:42.239 --> 01:31:43.039
Nothing against the other.
01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:44.640
Yeah, there's no editing that out.
01:31:44.880 --> 01:31:45.119
Yeah.
01:31:45.840 --> 01:31:47.520
Park loud truck here.
01:31:48.079 --> 01:31:51.119
Loud truck park right here during podcasts.
01:31:51.439 --> 01:31:53.840
Well, it's like he starts it up and then walks away.
01:31:54.159 --> 01:31:56.560
He went to get inside to go and did his damn to-go order.
01:31:56.640 --> 01:31:57.119
Yeah, yeah.
01:31:57.439 --> 01:31:58.720
Enjoying the air conditioning.
01:31:59.039 --> 01:32:00.319
In daddy's truck.
01:32:00.880 --> 01:32:01.359
Anyway.
01:32:01.760 --> 01:32:01.920
Okay.
01:32:02.479 --> 01:32:05.039
No, that was cool, but that's not well.
01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:06.640
I guess you don't want to tell that story, do you?
01:32:06.960 --> 01:32:07.199
Which one?
01:32:07.680 --> 01:32:08.560
With the pants.
01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:10.000
You don't have to.
01:32:10.720 --> 01:32:15.920
He had he had asked one of the female co-workers to go find some place to iron his pants.
01:32:16.720 --> 01:32:25.119
He was giving a when we started the Coast Keeper program here, he he was to come and give a well, you know, this it was a fundraiser thing.
01:32:25.920 --> 01:32:37.680
And it took months to get him to come, and when he finally did come and in his hotel room, he takes his pants off and asks one of the female co-workers to go find some place where he can iron his pants.
01:32:37.920 --> 01:32:38.640
What a dick.
01:32:40.880 --> 01:32:45.920
Oh, you know, people, man, some people they get famous or they've been famous their whole life, like him.
01:32:46.159 --> 01:32:46.399
Yeah.
01:32:46.880 --> 01:32:47.680
You don't know any other way.
01:32:48.720 --> 01:32:53.680
So some people learn to learn to handle fame well, and others don't.
01:32:54.239 --> 01:32:54.560
No.
01:32:54.720 --> 01:32:55.840
I couldn't imagine, man.
01:32:55.920 --> 01:33:01.439
I like I think about that when you see like asshole, you know, famous people.
01:33:01.600 --> 01:33:04.000
Like, dude, you wanted to be famous at one point in your life.
01:33:04.079 --> 01:33:07.680
You wanted to be to this position, and now you're pissed because people are trying to get their freaking autographs.
01:33:08.000 --> 01:33:09.359
Like you can't be bothered almost.
01:33:09.439 --> 01:33:10.560
It's like dang, dude.
01:33:10.720 --> 01:33:11.039
Yeah.
01:33:11.520 --> 01:33:13.119
No, that no, that's not true.
01:33:13.199 --> 01:33:14.560
But I mean, like, think about it though.
01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:25.439
Like, imagine like you're sitting with your wife and your kids, and then like somebody walks up to you in the restaurant while you're mid-bite of your steak, and they're like, Hey man, can you blah blah blah blah?
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:29.840
Yeah, no, I get that too, and that's why I I wouldn't like I do agree there's a time and a place, you know.
01:33:30.239 --> 01:33:35.119
And I've seen people and I've been like, oh look, that's a but I I'm not gonna walk be the one to walk over there and ask them for anything.
01:33:35.279 --> 01:33:36.960
I'll just look from afar and be like, that's cool.
01:33:37.119 --> 01:33:43.359
Like if they're sprinting through the airport and they're dragging their luggage behind them and you can tell they're late and be like, hey, can you like stop and take a photo with me?
01:33:43.520 --> 01:33:44.880
Like even though you're about to miss your flight.
01:33:45.359 --> 01:33:48.319
I was going through the airport and I was next to this famous lady.
01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:51.520
I think is her name's like Deb Mazza or Mazza or whatever.
01:33:51.600 --> 01:33:52.720
She was in Goodfellas.
01:33:53.039 --> 01:33:57.760
She she was the girlfriend with like the really remote white eyes or whatever, and she's right next to me.
01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:59.439
I was like, oh, cool.
01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:01.840
I didn't say anything to her, it's just cool, you know.
01:34:01.920 --> 01:34:07.119
We just walking through the airport together, and she's she saw that I looked over and I was like, all right, don't be a weirdo.
01:34:07.359 --> 01:34:09.279
Trying to think of the most famous person I ever met.
01:34:09.520 --> 01:34:13.439
I met Arlie Ermy, you know, full metal jacket.
01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:14.319
Oh, yeah.
01:34:14.479 --> 01:34:15.119
I met him.
01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:19.680
We graduated from recruiter school and drill instructor school the same the same graduation day.
01:34:19.760 --> 01:34:24.079
So we were at the the little on on base there in uh in in San Diego.
01:34:24.159 --> 01:34:28.800
There's a uh a bar where everybody went, and I grabbed my beers and I turned around and there he is.
01:34:28.880 --> 01:34:31.439
And I'm like, oh my god, what's up?
01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:35.279
And we sat there and had a beer together for like 10 minutes just talking, shooting the shit.
01:34:35.359 --> 01:34:39.760
And he was just like he is on the movies, you know, talk just like that, cuss just like that.
01:34:39.840 --> 01:34:40.960
Yeah, it was pretty neat.
01:34:41.359 --> 01:34:43.439
Um Matthew Modine, Joker.
01:34:43.600 --> 01:34:46.880
Yeah, he had an exhibit up at the uh National Museum.
01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:48.479
That's right, yeah.
01:34:48.560 --> 01:34:49.039
He told us about that.
01:34:49.199 --> 01:34:53.680
Yeah, he's got uh Full Metal Modine, it's his and it he was totally cool.
01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:55.199
Spent the whole weekend there.
01:34:55.279 --> 01:34:59.760
It was he didn't really like he's probably most known from Full Metal Jacket.
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:03.520
I mean he did other stuff, but like he's Joker from Full Metal Jacket.
01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:12.159
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think about maybe Stranger Things or something, but Joker the dude with the glasses, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:35:12.960 --> 01:35:16.319
Marine Corps actually made him an hour uh journalist.
01:35:16.720 --> 01:35:18.319
Yeah, you were saying yeah, that's pretty cool.
01:35:20.479 --> 01:35:23.680
Dear mom Ray Leo, Ray Leoto lived across the room.
01:35:23.840 --> 01:35:24.159
That's right.
01:35:24.800 --> 01:35:25.039
Really?
01:35:25.439 --> 01:35:29.039
Yeah, when when he he was a student at the University of Miami Drama School.
01:35:29.279 --> 01:35:34.319
Wow and he had a house across from us and on in Coral Gables.
01:35:34.720 --> 01:35:40.640
Um he had a he had a uh roommate, Bob Gentili, Italian kid from Buffalo.
01:35:41.359 --> 01:35:42.880
I grew up on the streets of Brooklyn.
01:35:43.039 --> 01:35:45.680
I've met hundreds of guys like Bob Gentili.
01:35:46.159 --> 01:35:51.439
Very loud, very he was a football player, very loud, very opinionated.
01:35:51.760 --> 01:36:00.399
Um he had a dome adventure named uh named after Trojan, a Trajan, named after a Roman Emperor.
01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:03.600
It was a standard Dominican.
01:36:03.760 --> 01:36:10.159
I had Shay, who was a street dog from Greenwich, and as I said, I did not do well with other male dogs.
01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:12.720
So I'd walk Shay and they'd bark at the fancy.
01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:16.000
Well, Bob said, well, we should let them get together to be friends.
01:36:16.239 --> 01:36:19.680
I said, no bother there's no friendship here.
01:36:20.399 --> 01:36:20.880
Trust me.
01:36:21.199 --> 01:36:26.159
One day I'm walking the dog, and Bob opens up the fancy gate, and here comes Trajan.
01:36:26.960 --> 01:36:29.039
I say I'm leash, I'll at least go.
01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:32.000
I wasn't gonna be in the middle of what was gonna happen.
01:36:32.319 --> 01:36:37.439
Well Trajan bounds up to him and does what 95% of dogs would do stop.
01:36:38.640 --> 01:36:39.920
Jay was in the middle of 5%.
01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:42.960
And he just got him by the neck.
01:36:44.079 --> 01:36:56.000
And for 30 seconds there, it was because Trajan was just howling, and and uh he got we got the hose and we were able to water the dogs down so then I was able to grab Jay.
01:36:56.399 --> 01:36:57.840
And he had to go to the vet.
01:36:58.640 --> 01:37:04.239
But ever since that day, when I'd walked the dog, if Trajan was outside, he'd run, he'd run for the porch.
01:37:04.479 --> 01:37:05.600
I said, I don't want no more of that.
01:37:05.840 --> 01:37:09.279
Ray told me once, I think you you ruined Bob's dog.
01:37:10.399 --> 01:37:12.479
But yeah, that that's that's really yeah.
01:37:12.560 --> 01:37:14.640
But he he was a nice guy, he was he was a nice kid.
01:37:15.359 --> 01:37:16.319
So like you talked to him and everything.
01:37:16.399 --> 01:37:16.880
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:37:16.960 --> 01:37:17.520
We were neighbors.
01:37:17.680 --> 01:37:18.079
Went to bar.
01:37:18.560 --> 01:37:23.359
But that's before he was uh oh yeah, he was a student at uh so later on you're like, I fucking know that guy.
01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:23.840
Yeah, right.
01:37:24.079 --> 01:37:28.880
I mean I met his mother, who was uh mayor of some town in New Jersey.
01:37:29.039 --> 01:37:31.199
Oh yeah, she was nice, and his father, yeah.
01:37:31.279 --> 01:37:33.199
I mean, yeah, that's pretty cool, man.
01:37:33.439 --> 01:37:36.479
And I've always and I regret never contacting him.
01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:38.479
So I I'm sure he would remember me.
01:37:38.880 --> 01:37:42.880
Never contacting him later when he got famous, just you know, hey, what's up?
01:37:43.119 --> 01:37:44.000
Yeah, man, what's up?
01:37:44.239 --> 01:37:45.119
Yeah, it's going.
01:37:45.359 --> 01:37:51.520
I'm sorry I didn't do that, but uh I always thought it was sort of ghost, you know, just yeah but but yeah, I would have liked to have made the connection.
01:37:51.920 --> 01:37:52.079
Right.
01:37:52.159 --> 01:37:54.000
Yeah, everybody wants to talk to the famous person.
01:37:54.079 --> 01:37:54.800
We just don't want to be that.
01:37:55.039 --> 01:37:56.399
But you don't want to be that guy, yeah.
01:37:56.640 --> 01:37:57.920
You don't want to be that guy, right?
01:37:58.079 --> 01:38:01.039
But as a as a as a college kid, he was a nice kid.
01:38:01.279 --> 01:38:01.840
That's cool though.
01:38:02.000 --> 01:38:02.880
Yeah, that is cool.
01:38:03.119 --> 01:38:05.039
It beats the RFK part, you know.
01:38:05.359 --> 01:38:06.239
Yeah, he was a nice kid.
01:38:07.199 --> 01:38:07.439
Raleigh.
01:38:08.000 --> 01:38:10.800
They say don't meet your heroes, but that you know what I mean?
01:38:10.960 --> 01:38:12.880
Like because it'll disappoint you.
01:38:13.039 --> 01:38:14.000
But no, that's cool.
01:38:14.239 --> 01:38:16.399
Like Mickey Mannell shoeing the kids away.
01:38:16.479 --> 01:38:16.800
Yeah.
01:38:17.520 --> 01:38:18.479
Well, that is funny though.
01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:20.880
He was like, Man, maybe I struck out three times that day.
01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:22.720
Like there might have been a reason.
01:38:23.439 --> 01:38:26.239
Yeah, you might have caught him on a bad day, but that's the problem with being famous.
01:38:26.479 --> 01:38:28.079
And also that you're always on display.
01:38:28.319 --> 01:38:30.720
And he and he admitted, yeah, he said, Yeah, I know I was like that.
01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:32.239
And then we said, Give me that damn hat.
01:38:32.319 --> 01:38:33.439
And he then he signed my hat.
01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:34.319
That's cool.
01:38:34.399 --> 01:38:38.319
Uh well, but you know that you're human, you're just human, your hero.
01:38:38.399 --> 01:38:39.119
That's pretty neat.
01:38:39.680 --> 01:38:45.199
Yeah, growing up as a kid, you know, idolizing somebody, and then you get to but he was very easy to talk to.
01:38:45.279 --> 01:38:49.359
Uh so I told him my personal, you know, and he understood, I wasn't the first one.
01:38:49.840 --> 01:38:54.000
He he certainly understood where I came from in his rise to fame.
01:38:54.159 --> 01:38:54.399
Right.
01:38:54.640 --> 01:39:04.399
And um, but but he was very easy to talk to, and once he realized I was a knowledgeable baseball fan, he was telling me stories about Joe DiMaggio and Casey Stangles.
01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:07.359
So yeah, we entirely we had a wonderful three hours.
01:39:07.439 --> 01:39:12.640
Yeah, but you look so back in the day when you said the the other players, you got to see Yogi Berra?
01:39:13.600 --> 01:39:15.439
No, I I didn't know.
01:39:15.600 --> 01:39:16.720
Or is he a little too old?
01:39:17.039 --> 01:39:18.640
No, no, he yeah, I got to see him play.
01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:19.279
Yeah, absolutely.
01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:22.000
Oh, but I'm saying, like, you you saw him coming out of the clubhouse.
01:39:22.880 --> 01:39:23.279
Yeah, he played.
01:39:23.439 --> 01:39:23.840
Yeah, he's got a couple of things.
01:39:24.000 --> 01:39:25.760
I was like Yankee Toucher.
01:39:26.079 --> 01:39:27.119
All the big names back then.
01:39:27.279 --> 01:39:31.279
Yeah, Roger Maris was in uh right field, Nana was in center.
01:39:31.439 --> 01:39:32.560
Yeah, but who's on first?
01:39:32.800 --> 01:39:35.520
Who's on who was Moose Garrin was on first?
01:39:35.840 --> 01:39:36.319
What a mob.
01:39:36.560 --> 01:39:37.439
No, who's on first?
01:39:37.600 --> 01:39:39.760
What era was Murderer's Row?
01:39:40.399 --> 01:39:41.840
Uh that was in the 20s.
01:39:42.239 --> 01:39:42.640
In the 20s.
01:39:42.880 --> 01:39:47.119
That was in that was that was uh Ruth, Gehrig, Bob Musual.
01:39:47.439 --> 01:39:47.840
I got you.
01:39:48.000 --> 01:39:49.439
Yeah, that was in the 20s.
01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:51.119
Gehrig was a catcher?
01:39:51.359 --> 01:39:52.079
First baseman.
01:39:52.239 --> 01:39:52.640
First base.
01:39:53.039 --> 01:39:54.479
Bill Dickey was the catcher.
01:39:54.640 --> 01:39:56.800
Well, Dickey in the 30s was the catcher.
01:39:56.960 --> 01:39:57.439
Yeah.
01:39:57.840 --> 01:40:05.680
I was when I was a kid, I was a Mets fan just because we were the Tidewater Tides were their farm farm team or whatever.
01:40:05.920 --> 01:40:09.279
And then they've later became the Norfolk Tides, and I think they're the Orioles team.
01:40:09.520 --> 01:40:11.359
What kind of life was that, being a Met fan?
01:40:11.600 --> 01:40:12.560
Well, that's what I'm saying.
01:40:12.640 --> 01:40:14.239
Like, I didn't really watch it.
01:40:14.800 --> 01:40:16.479
It was when Daryl Strawberry was playing.
01:40:16.560 --> 01:40:17.680
Like the Mets were really good.
01:40:17.760 --> 01:40:17.920
Right.
01:40:18.159 --> 01:40:18.880
It was the 80s, you know.
01:40:19.119 --> 01:40:23.840
But then they have like also like well, he was later, Joe P or Mike Piazza.
01:40:24.640 --> 01:40:25.760
Man, I didn't watch it.
01:40:25.840 --> 01:40:26.319
Was he a Met?
01:40:26.479 --> 01:40:26.960
He was a Matthew.
01:40:27.520 --> 01:40:33.920
There was like uh when when Strawberry was playing, it was like a a couple of years in there that me because we played baseball, right?
01:40:34.079 --> 01:40:36.640
So we watched a little, you know, we watched baseball, we watched the Mets.
01:40:37.039 --> 01:40:38.880
Um, and then just kind of fell off of it.
01:40:38.960 --> 01:40:40.319
I wasn't playing baseball anymore.
01:40:40.399 --> 01:40:44.319
It was more fun to be at a game than it is to watch on TV anyway.
01:40:44.399 --> 01:40:45.600
So it's a true statement.
01:40:45.840 --> 01:40:48.399
I've I've never had a good time watching a baseball.
01:40:48.800 --> 01:40:52.720
I'll tell you what, what baseball game I do like watching is the Little League World Series.
01:40:52.960 --> 01:40:53.359
They care.
01:40:53.760 --> 01:40:56.960
Man, those kids are working for like aliens.
01:40:57.119 --> 01:40:57.760
All right, hang on.
01:40:57.840 --> 01:40:59.439
Let me go get her a treat.
01:40:59.680 --> 01:41:00.880
Nope, Penny.
01:41:04.079 --> 01:41:05.359
Hey, I'm leaving that in.
01:41:08.399 --> 01:41:10.319
Oh, I'm sorry.
01:41:12.079 --> 01:41:13.680
How you doing, sir?
01:41:14.399 --> 01:41:14.800
Good.
01:41:15.199 --> 01:41:17.600
Speaking of dogs, reacting.
01:41:18.720 --> 01:41:28.960
So, Frank, funny story about me about why I didn't play baseball when I was like five or six years old, seven, probably seven years old, and when I played T ball, run into first.
01:41:29.039 --> 01:41:34.560
I was at practice, and I'm running to first, and I go to look if I'm gonna beat the play.
01:41:34.640 --> 01:41:39.520
You know, I look and see where the ball is coming from and right in my mouth, knock my two front teeth out.
01:41:39.600 --> 01:41:39.760
Yeah.
01:41:40.000 --> 01:41:46.079
So after that, I was pretty I stayed on the team, but I wasn't really motivated to continue another season.
01:41:46.479 --> 01:41:47.600
That's perfectly understandable.
01:41:47.840 --> 01:41:48.800
I was like, I'm okay with it.
01:41:49.119 --> 01:41:50.159
And you weren't alone.
01:41:50.239 --> 01:41:51.119
Yeah, you weren't alone.
01:41:51.279 --> 01:41:56.319
You know, I had a uh when I was in high school, um had a baseball coach, Brother Donnelly.
01:41:56.399 --> 01:42:06.079
I went I went to a Jesuit high school um in Brooklyn, and they had a they had a very legendary reputation as a baseball school.
01:42:06.319 --> 01:42:13.359
Um Brother Donnelly was the coach, and I played third base, and Brother Donnelly once asked me, he said, Mr.
01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:16.560
Tursey, why did God give you a body?
01:42:17.119 --> 01:42:20.000
I said, I don't know if that was Brother Donnelly, why'd he give me a body?
01:42:20.399 --> 01:42:22.880
So you can block them goddamn ground balls.
01:42:24.560 --> 01:42:32.640
Um so and he'd have practice, you know, where he'd hit standing from me you and hit these hard ground balls, and I'd go home.
01:42:32.720 --> 01:42:40.479
My mother thought I was getting in the fights because I I got home with black and blue marks all over my chest and my neck, but yeah because you couldn't catch them.
01:42:40.640 --> 01:42:42.640
All you could do was stop them, stop it.
01:42:43.039 --> 01:42:44.399
Get in front of them and stop them.
01:42:44.479 --> 01:42:45.279
Yeah, so yeah.
01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:47.119
I played short stuff for a little while.
01:42:47.359 --> 01:42:51.600
But you know, there were a lot of kids who couldn't do that, you know, and would say, Oh, I gotta go find something else to do.
01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:54.239
I think it was like maybe if it was it's hard when you're a kid, man.
01:42:54.479 --> 01:42:56.159
That ball's coming at you hard and hard and fast.
01:42:56.319 --> 01:42:57.920
I got I told you I got hit in the face when I was playing.
01:42:58.159 --> 01:42:59.199
That's what I told them when you went to time.
01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:02.800
But I feel like if it would have happened when I was like you could see the seams.
01:43:03.039 --> 01:43:04.720
I mean, yeah, that's what I would tell my mother.
01:43:04.880 --> 01:43:06.800
See that it's like look closer.
01:43:07.840 --> 01:43:14.000
But like I feel like if it was like happened when I maybe was like 12 or 13, it wouldn't have like spooked me out of it as hard.
01:43:14.079 --> 01:43:14.319
That's right.
01:43:14.479 --> 01:43:19.359
But I was like a very little kid, I was like eight or seven years old, and I was just like, I don't want to do this.
01:43:19.439 --> 01:43:29.119
And I played baseball one more time when I was in eighth grade because like I said, I played sports my whole school career, and all of my friends were baseball players.
01:43:29.520 --> 01:43:31.439
So I was like, I want to hang out with my friends.
01:43:31.600 --> 01:43:33.279
So I was like, I went out for the baseball team.
01:43:33.359 --> 01:43:38.159
I made it because you know I was an athlete, so I could play, but when it came time to hit the city.
01:43:40.159 --> 01:43:44.399
You could throw me a call, strikes dead down the middle, and I'm backing up.
01:43:44.720 --> 01:43:46.159
I just couldn't take it.
01:43:46.319 --> 01:43:47.199
What about a batting cage?
01:43:47.279 --> 01:43:48.159
Could you do a batting cage?
01:43:48.239 --> 01:43:50.399
I could do a batting cage because you know that it's going right down the middle.
01:43:50.560 --> 01:43:52.720
Especially even now, like I'm not afraid of the ball anymore.
01:43:52.800 --> 01:44:01.439
But like as an eighth grader, it's like I have another 13-year-old lining up to throw it as hard as he can at me with uh who knows the dispersion of where it's gonna be.
01:44:01.520 --> 01:44:03.359
Yeah, that kid that kid ain't accurate.
01:44:07.680 --> 01:44:08.079
Natural fear.
01:44:08.159 --> 01:44:17.760
Someone it is, and you don't know, particularly at that level, you don't know how accurate this pitcher's gonna be in coming, you know, this close to you.
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.520
And you got that long to think whether it's I can hit it or I can't.
01:44:21.760 --> 01:44:22.079
That's right.
01:44:22.159 --> 01:44:22.560
Yeah, that's right.
01:44:22.640 --> 01:44:23.279
Or it's gonna be.
01:44:24.560 --> 01:44:26.479
Like, I'm not gonna be a little bitch in front of everybody.
01:44:26.640 --> 01:44:28.319
You know, I want to be, but I'm not gonna get it.
01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:29.680
I was a great pinch runner, though.
01:44:29.920 --> 01:44:38.239
You know, Michael Jordan, as gifted as an athlete as he was, when he played minor league baseball after he retired from basketball, yeah.
01:44:38.560 --> 01:44:44.640
I think his his lifetime average is in the low 200s, and he only lasted two or three seasons.
01:44:44.880 --> 01:44:49.039
But as good as an athlete as Michael Jordan had a hard time.
01:44:49.359 --> 01:44:52.319
The quintessential athlete hitting even minor league pick.
01:44:52.479 --> 01:44:59.279
Now, and once you make the step up, that that's the quantum leap that's now you got Randy Johnson throwing at you.
01:45:00.399 --> 01:45:04.239
Like you can't even see like it's just instinct where the ball is at that point.
01:45:04.479 --> 01:45:05.600
Yeah, that's the quantum leap.
01:45:05.760 --> 01:45:06.319
You know, yeah.
01:45:06.479 --> 01:45:08.800
Uh Bo Jackson played a bunch of sports.
01:45:09.039 --> 01:45:11.199
Remember Bono's baseball, Bono's football.
01:45:11.520 --> 01:45:12.720
What if he would have never got hurt?
01:45:12.880 --> 01:45:14.000
Oh my goodness.
01:45:14.159 --> 01:45:14.640
Yeah.
01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:17.199
Yeah, he was supposed to be good at like damn everything.
01:45:17.359 --> 01:45:18.079
He was a demon.
01:45:18.159 --> 01:45:18.640
Yeah.
01:45:18.960 --> 01:45:21.760
Definitely don't want to be on the receiving end of him running into it.
01:45:21.920 --> 01:45:23.119
It's kind of like actors, man.
01:45:23.199 --> 01:45:25.199
A lot of actors are multi-talented.
01:45:25.279 --> 01:45:27.439
Like they can also sing, they can also play an instrument.
01:45:27.520 --> 01:45:28.000
Back in the day.
01:45:28.239 --> 01:45:29.119
It's like show business, though.
01:45:29.359 --> 01:45:31.199
Well, back in the day, you had to be a triple threat.
01:45:31.279 --> 01:45:35.920
You had to be able to dance, sing, and act to be in movies and stuff like that when movies first started.
01:45:36.239 --> 01:45:40.079
Well, because wasn't like the said the segue to fame was Broadway.
01:45:40.239 --> 01:45:41.520
So you're doing all that, right?
01:45:41.600 --> 01:45:46.640
You're like, it's like you were talking about Humphrey Bog not Humphrey Bogart.
01:45:47.039 --> 01:45:47.600
Yeah, it was.
01:45:47.760 --> 01:45:49.039
Was it Humphrey Bogart?
01:45:49.279 --> 01:45:56.720
And yes, I you said, well, we were talking about how he was on Broadway or something like that, very well known, and then he gave that up for a career.
01:45:57.359 --> 01:45:58.640
Yeah, I think someone I don't know that.
01:45:58.800 --> 01:45:59.520
Someone else said that.
01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:03.520
Gave it up for a career into a relatively new thing, and then he became world famous.
01:46:03.760 --> 01:46:04.159
Right, right.
01:46:04.399 --> 01:46:07.760
Yeah, I think it was Humphrey Bogart because we were talking about Casablanca.
01:46:08.319 --> 01:46:15.039
And a lot of those song and dance teams guys came from Broadville, you know, and then and they made it into movies.
01:46:15.199 --> 01:46:15.520
Yeah.
01:46:15.760 --> 01:46:18.720
Um, so yeah, there there were various avenues that they used.
01:46:18.800 --> 01:46:21.600
But yeah, but you I mean like Steve Martin.
01:46:21.760 --> 01:46:24.560
That dude is one of the world's best banjo players.
01:46:24.640 --> 01:46:27.920
He's not just a banjo player, like he's he's really good.
01:46:28.079 --> 01:46:28.319
Uh-huh.
01:46:28.560 --> 01:46:31.279
Like he's in groups with other banjo players and stuff.
01:46:31.359 --> 01:46:32.399
And uh I've seen some shit.
01:46:33.359 --> 01:46:33.920
I've seen some shit.
01:46:34.000 --> 01:46:35.279
I'm like, dude, he's good.
01:46:35.439 --> 01:46:38.640
Because I mean, I'm teaching myself the banjo, so I know how hard it is.
01:46:38.800 --> 01:46:39.840
This dude is good.
01:46:40.079 --> 01:46:41.920
Did you learn deliverance first?
01:46:42.239 --> 01:46:43.439
I've already known how to play that.
01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:45.039
I could play that on my guitar.
01:46:45.279 --> 01:46:46.319
So that's like the first thing.
01:46:46.399 --> 01:46:52.399
I was like, I've never seen that movie.
01:46:52.560 --> 01:46:53.359
It's not never seen.
01:46:53.840 --> 01:46:54.800
I've never seen deliverance.
01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:55.199
Really?
01:46:55.760 --> 01:46:58.960
I know what it happens because you know you need to be educated.
01:46:59.199 --> 01:47:01.119
I yeah, I've been watching a bunch of these old things.
01:47:01.279 --> 01:47:02.319
I just how do I watch it?
01:47:02.399 --> 01:47:03.359
I mean, how do you stream it?
01:47:03.439 --> 01:47:04.159
I'm not renting it.
01:47:04.319 --> 01:47:05.359
Just you, I don't know.
01:47:05.600 --> 01:47:06.079
Yeah, YouTube.
01:47:06.399 --> 01:47:09.199
It sometimes YouTube will have a full-length movie on it, dude.
01:47:09.359 --> 01:47:10.399
I'll watch that full.
01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:11.760
Free with ads.
01:47:12.960 --> 01:47:14.000
I'll take the commercials.
01:47:14.560 --> 01:47:15.760
We'll get to see it, sure.
01:47:15.920 --> 01:47:17.920
Who was I telling that Dracula one?
01:47:18.079 --> 01:47:19.680
It's a three-part docuseries.
01:47:19.760 --> 01:47:20.880
I think it was Stefan.
01:47:21.039 --> 01:47:25.199
We were talking about this because he told me to watch that new Frankenstein movie from 2025.
01:47:25.359 --> 01:47:26.479
Yeah, and it was pretty good.
01:47:26.560 --> 01:47:26.880
Really?
01:47:27.039 --> 01:47:31.359
And I don't I don't really typically like Frankenstein movies, they're kind of boring, but it was good.
01:47:31.760 --> 01:47:32.399
That one was good.
01:47:32.560 --> 01:47:33.439
Yeah, did you see it?
01:47:33.600 --> 01:47:33.840
Yep.
01:47:34.079 --> 01:47:35.039
It was very good.
01:47:35.680 --> 01:47:36.319
Yeah.
01:47:36.800 --> 01:47:40.000
They start him out like he's a scary motherhawker.
01:47:40.079 --> 01:47:40.560
You know what I'm saying?
01:47:40.640 --> 01:47:41.199
Oh, yeah, it's just a good one.
01:47:41.279 --> 01:47:45.520
And then but then they go through like his whole how he became Frankenstein.
01:47:45.600 --> 01:47:45.760
Yeah.
01:47:45.840 --> 01:47:46.560
It's pretty good if he's.
01:47:46.800 --> 01:47:47.680
What do you want your name to be?
01:47:47.840 --> 01:47:49.119
Frankenstein.
01:47:49.760 --> 01:47:50.800
Movie go.
01:47:51.920 --> 01:47:53.439
Ooh, ooh, uh Big Daddy.
01:47:53.600 --> 01:47:54.159
There you go.
01:47:54.560 --> 01:47:55.119
Come on.
01:47:55.439 --> 01:47:56.560
Dude, what is up?
01:47:58.720 --> 01:47:59.920
How'd you get one in there?
01:48:00.079 --> 01:48:01.600
I wiped my own ass.
01:48:04.159 --> 01:48:06.159
Yeah, I'm the movie quote guy.
01:48:06.479 --> 01:48:08.560
Man, honestly, shout out to you, Frank.
01:48:08.640 --> 01:48:09.439
Thank you for joining us today.
01:48:09.600 --> 01:48:10.079
Yeah, seriously.
01:48:10.319 --> 01:48:10.800
Thank you for having me.
01:48:11.039 --> 01:48:11.439
Thank you so much.
01:48:12.560 --> 01:48:15.520
And it's been our fault for not have uh making this happen sooner.
01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:28.239
I could probably pick your brain for a long time because I know with the journalism thing, I I find a little bit of that in myself with the radio stuff a little because I I'm starting to interview people and stuff, so it's very respectable.
01:48:28.399 --> 01:48:30.560
So yeah, he's interviewed some famous people too.
01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:32.880
Tim McGraw, Jelly Roll.
01:48:33.279 --> 01:48:37.680
Maybe not on the same facets and levels, but I'm just learning.
01:48:37.760 --> 01:48:41.039
I'm just finding my finding my ropes.
01:48:41.199 --> 01:48:41.359
Right.
01:48:41.520 --> 01:48:43.760
No, it's got the media guys here, you know.
01:48:43.920 --> 01:48:44.399
Yeah.
01:48:44.720 --> 01:48:45.600
Well, I enjoyed it.
01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:46.880
It was good, good being here.
01:48:47.119 --> 01:48:54.560
Yeah, so we uh we will like I said, I want to put I'm gonna put the description in the I'm gonna put the link in the description.
01:48:54.800 --> 01:48:57.680
Did you you didn't want uh the new one doesn't come out till tomorrow.
01:48:57.760 --> 01:49:00.079
It's already scheduled, everything's coming out tomorrow.
01:49:00.560 --> 01:49:03.520
Um, but I'll I'll put pictures up here and there.
01:49:06.640 --> 01:49:10.960
So I was like, we got the little nitro, and when we talked about it, yeah, buddy.
01:49:11.279 --> 01:49:15.920
So we talked about Justin Castellano, Swansboro's greatest guitar player.
01:49:16.159 --> 01:49:23.439
Anyway, um so I put the picture of the little nitro up there, and then I was like, but you can buy these at Candy Adventure, and I put Candy Adventure up there.
01:49:23.680 --> 01:49:24.239
Is that what it's called?
01:49:24.399 --> 01:49:25.119
Little Nitro?
01:49:25.279 --> 01:49:26.399
Yeah, Little Nitro.
01:49:26.640 --> 01:49:29.600
And then uh when they did it, I told you I put a little timer up there.
01:49:29.920 --> 01:49:33.439
And I had to figure out how to do that in Da Vinci, and I figured out how to do it.
01:49:33.600 --> 01:49:36.319
See how there's like 89 steps to do one thing?
01:49:36.640 --> 01:49:40.960
The one step I was missing was changing that one thing to multi-camera view.
01:49:41.199 --> 01:49:47.760
The next time you get hung up on that, go to our pictures that we've sent each other, and you've like circled it and sent it to me before.
01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:54.079
Yeah, it like clearly told me that because you said you've sent me a picture of this before, and I was like, I was like, scroll up, it's right there.
01:49:54.239 --> 01:49:54.800
Yeah, no.
01:49:55.039 --> 01:49:57.840
Um, but it so it was funny.
01:49:57.920 --> 01:49:59.760
We we we add those things in the little time.
01:50:00.880 --> 01:50:05.279
And then at the end, I I put a little thanks for watching thing and it kind of like fades out.
01:50:05.439 --> 01:50:06.960
So I I try to do that each time.
01:50:07.199 --> 01:50:10.399
But uh remember when we were first showing his book?
01:50:10.640 --> 01:50:11.920
Or no, it was the plaque, wasn't it?
01:50:12.159 --> 01:50:13.359
It was the plaque that Chris gave us.
01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:14.720
So we're like, we're showing the back.
01:50:16.159 --> 01:50:18.079
And they can because I'm talking, so you see the back.
01:50:19.039 --> 01:50:22.800
And then when when we put that way, then then they're talking, so it's looking at that.
01:50:22.960 --> 01:50:25.279
So we never get it face in front.
01:50:25.920 --> 01:50:27.199
They never got to see it.
01:50:27.520 --> 01:50:31.920
So we needed to take a picture of it and just post it up because we were terrible at the end.
01:50:32.239 --> 01:50:34.319
Frank, have you have you ever done any radio before?
01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:36.000
I've done radio interviews.
01:50:36.159 --> 01:50:36.800
I gotcha, right on.
01:50:37.279 --> 01:50:39.359
Yeah, so you've been doing a bunch because of this book, right?
01:50:39.600 --> 01:50:44.880
Yeah, and when I worked at the Coastal Federation, I did a Coastkeeper, I did a lot of media interviews.
01:50:45.119 --> 01:50:48.079
Um yeah, I've been on the radio several times.
01:50:48.399 --> 01:50:50.319
I would imagine as a commissioner as well, huh?
01:50:50.560 --> 01:50:53.600
Yeah, and TV, and you know, yeah, it was part of the job.
01:50:54.000 --> 01:50:55.840
You're like, yeah, it's no big deal.
01:50:56.239 --> 01:50:57.039
People know me.
01:50:58.000 --> 01:50:58.720
Comes with the territory.
01:51:00.000 --> 01:51:10.319
I mean, that was, you know, at the Coast Keeper position, yeah, it was it was integral to be good on TV or you know, on a in an interview, you had to sound like you knew what you were.
01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:10.640
Right.
01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:12.079
And you gotta connect to the masses.
01:51:12.399 --> 01:51:14.239
And you got and you gotta connect with people to make it.
01:51:14.479 --> 01:51:16.079
You can't just have a face for radio.
01:51:16.159 --> 01:51:18.000
You have to actually have a face for radio.
01:51:18.640 --> 01:51:21.840
Well, I always get comments, and people are always like, Man, you ever thought about being on?
01:51:21.920 --> 01:51:26.720
I was like, Yeah, but as a matter of fact, my uh my co-host is on the radio and we do a podcast.
01:51:27.359 --> 01:51:29.279
The drunk douche next to me is actually on the road.
01:51:29.439 --> 01:51:30.640
What happened to your arm?
01:51:31.039 --> 01:51:31.840
Carrying tent.
01:51:32.159 --> 01:51:33.760
Look, I got that happening right there.
01:51:34.000 --> 01:51:38.159
Oh, speaking of which, real quick, while we've got nine minutes left, tell me about your trip.
01:51:38.399 --> 01:51:40.399
Man, we go up to Calicoon, New York.
01:51:40.479 --> 01:51:47.439
It's around the Woodstock area, and we uh Nicole's family, my wife, she her family has like 50 or 60 people that go there every year.
01:51:47.520 --> 01:51:49.680
They've been doing it since I think like 79.
01:51:49.760 --> 01:51:51.840
They'll go out there and camp from like that window.
01:51:52.159 --> 01:51:53.520
That's a pretty specific year.
01:51:53.760 --> 01:51:55.920
I don't I that's in there somewhere.
01:51:56.159 --> 01:51:56.880
It's probably wrong.
01:51:56.960 --> 01:52:00.640
But in it's in that region of time that that long, that heritage level.
01:52:00.880 --> 01:52:05.199
Oh, it's they do it for the 4th of July, and um, it's a big gate down.
01:52:05.279 --> 01:52:06.159
It's it's just a field.
01:52:06.239 --> 01:52:07.680
There's a cabin there, and just small cabin.
01:52:08.000 --> 01:52:16.079
Oh, I was just gonna say, did you primitive or did you we primitive it because it's like everybody that's the older folks stay in the cabin and then everybody else tents out.
01:52:16.159 --> 01:52:16.239
Right.
01:52:16.479 --> 01:52:22.000
So you drive in, you tent out, they'd shoot off fireworks, the good fireworks on because you know it's in New York.
01:52:22.239 --> 01:52:24.560
The dangerous thing you can buy the good fireworks gonna blow your fingers off.
01:52:25.119 --> 01:52:25.680
Exactly, right?
01:52:25.760 --> 01:52:26.399
It's a risk.
01:52:26.640 --> 01:52:27.439
Um, anyway.
01:52:27.760 --> 01:52:45.119
So we do that for four days, five days, depending on when fourth falls, you know, we'll trip up there, we'll drive there, pack the truck full of stuff, and it's like it's always fun driving there, and it's always fun having the fun and drinking the beer, and then it's like Sunday comes, and it's time to pack everything back up.
01:52:45.279 --> 01:52:45.920
That's the worst.
01:52:46.159 --> 01:52:46.720
Like it's the worst.
01:52:47.199 --> 01:52:48.640
Anytime you end a camping trip.
01:52:48.720 --> 01:52:51.920
I remember because we grew up camping at Lake Gaston.
01:52:52.319 --> 01:52:56.079
Every time it's like the last day, we're all like it's like kicking sticks around.
01:52:56.239 --> 01:52:57.439
Even the day wants to leave.
01:52:57.760 --> 01:53:00.640
Even the day before, you're like, it's creeping into your mind.
01:53:00.720 --> 01:53:02.960
You're like, tomorrow is gonna suck bad.
01:53:03.119 --> 01:53:03.359
Right.
01:53:03.600 --> 01:53:04.640
That's like vacation, dude.
01:53:04.720 --> 01:53:08.640
If you're on vacation, the second to last day, you're like, fuck tomorrow.
01:53:08.800 --> 01:53:09.359
Damn it.
01:53:09.520 --> 01:53:09.760
Right.
01:53:10.000 --> 01:53:11.439
You know, it's ruined.
01:53:11.680 --> 01:53:15.039
Like you ruined the second to last day of my vacation by thinking about it.
01:53:15.920 --> 01:53:17.039
Yeah, by knowing that it's almost over.
01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:20.960
So it was a good time, but always we we always come back battered and tattered.
01:53:21.039 --> 01:53:24.159
You know, I walk around barefoot for four days and walk around without a shot.
01:53:24.319 --> 01:53:27.279
I keep the same bathing suit on for three days, wash off and clean.
01:53:27.680 --> 01:53:31.680
You know, you just take a little freaking dude wipe and just you know, wipe yourself down.
01:53:31.760 --> 01:53:35.520
It's it it is primitive camping when I say it we're grilling and over our fires.
01:53:35.920 --> 01:53:37.199
Well, was there is water?
01:53:37.520 --> 01:53:38.079
Could you swim?
01:53:38.319 --> 01:53:40.880
It's a river, so it's like you we dam it.
01:53:41.039 --> 01:53:42.880
So we come when we get there, we'll take it.
01:53:43.039 --> 01:53:43.439
Damn it.
01:53:43.520 --> 01:53:45.680
Yeah, we're like, damn it, because it's work.
01:53:45.920 --> 01:53:57.439
So exactly stack the rocks up so it it creates like a little deep area that becomes waist deep, and then but as it stands, it's probably shin deep before you dam it.
01:53:57.840 --> 01:53:58.640
You dam it and it gets deep.
01:53:58.880 --> 01:54:00.079
But it's gross river water, I got you.
01:54:00.159 --> 01:54:02.239
It's always it's flowing though, it's it's fresh.
01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:05.439
It's not a lake where you're in the cove and you get to just go.
01:54:05.840 --> 01:54:08.960
Like once you dam it, you can like really see like fish are swimming through there.
01:54:09.439 --> 01:54:09.760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:54:10.000 --> 01:54:11.760
It's pretty clear, it's as clear as it can get.
01:54:12.560 --> 01:54:14.159
And it's nice and crisp and cool.
01:54:14.239 --> 01:54:16.079
It's not like bathwater at the beach in the summer time.
01:54:16.399 --> 01:54:19.039
So they had is it somebody's house up, somebody owns a cabin up there?
01:54:19.119 --> 01:54:19.840
Is that why you go up there?
01:54:20.079 --> 01:54:26.239
So yeah, there's like a family like delegation of like four or five people that own that land, so they just go there to camp.
01:54:26.479 --> 01:54:28.079
It's not like a sustainable house.
01:54:28.239 --> 01:54:31.279
I think that they turn the power off when they leave and all that stuff.
01:54:31.680 --> 01:54:38.399
Well, you know, uh we were planning earlier this year, we were gonna talk, we were talking about going to um Idaho.
01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.119
That's right.
01:54:39.359 --> 01:54:46.640
Whoever wanted to go from the shop, because Cody's from there, and Shell has been out there, and there's a cabin that Shell's friend owns, and we were gonna rent it and all this stuff.
01:54:46.880 --> 01:54:50.000
Cody has some stuff he's still dealing with cordial.
01:54:50.800 --> 01:54:51.279
He's injured.
01:54:51.520 --> 01:54:52.880
Well, now he's injured.
01:54:53.039 --> 01:54:59.760
Uh in October or sometime around there, our second part of the year trip is up to Ed's family's cabin.
01:55:00.000 --> 01:55:00.640
They have a cabin.
01:55:01.600 --> 01:55:04.079
Yep, his dad, his mom and dad just bought a house down here.
01:55:04.159 --> 01:55:07.600
They're they're closing on their house up there in September, September 22nd.
01:55:07.680 --> 01:55:08.319
He told me yesterday.
01:55:08.479 --> 01:55:10.159
I don't know why I'm putting their business out there.
01:55:10.319 --> 01:55:12.880
But anyway, what is their social security number?
01:55:13.119 --> 01:55:18.159
So they're coming down, but they they still own this cab and it's their family uh, you know, cabin and it's right on the water.
01:55:18.239 --> 01:55:19.279
They go hunting up there.
01:55:19.439 --> 01:55:25.520
So whoever wants to go, it's gonna be a hunting trip because Ed's driving up, so he'll carry all of our rifles and everything.
01:55:25.600 --> 01:55:28.000
Everybody else is gonna fly up because that's crazy to drive up.
01:55:28.159 --> 01:55:30.000
I told him I might ride with them just so you can see.
01:55:30.159 --> 01:55:34.079
Another downward facet of traveling to do that in a truck with camping stuff.
01:55:34.319 --> 01:55:34.479
Right.
01:55:34.640 --> 01:55:35.199
So drive.
01:55:35.439 --> 01:55:41.439
And I don't want him to have to be alone on a drive by himself, so I'll probably just all right, I'll go with you and we'll have fun and all that shit.
01:55:41.520 --> 01:55:43.920
But we're gonna do like a week at that cabin.
01:55:44.159 --> 01:55:44.960
That's gonna be so good.
01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:48.239
And it's gonna be like, you know, cold out, nice and cold.
01:55:48.479 --> 01:55:49.039
We're gonna go fishing.
01:55:50.880 --> 01:55:52.560
No, no way.
01:55:52.960 --> 01:55:53.920
Because we're hunting.
01:55:54.000 --> 01:55:56.319
I would be scared, she'd scare everything away.
01:55:56.720 --> 01:55:58.159
No, you're being too loud.
01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:00.800
Yeah, I'm gonna have to have my mom watch her for a week.
01:56:01.039 --> 01:56:04.800
Maybe I'll have her bring her up here just so she still gets her fill of the cigar shop.
01:56:05.119 --> 01:56:05.920
Go say hi to everybody.
01:56:06.479 --> 01:56:07.359
Like normal.
01:56:08.479 --> 01:56:11.840
I'm telling you, dude, she barks at me when I when I go to put bags in the car.
01:56:11.920 --> 01:56:13.840
If her bag's not in the car, she's barking at the door.
01:56:13.920 --> 01:56:14.880
She's mad at me.
01:56:15.119 --> 01:56:17.039
She knows she knows she ain't coming.
01:56:17.279 --> 01:56:20.000
Yeah, and all she's doing is that that right there.
01:56:20.399 --> 01:56:20.720
Yeah.
01:56:21.199 --> 01:56:23.840
And if we're and if she's at home, I ask my mom, how's Penny?
01:56:24.079 --> 01:56:24.880
She's fine, she's sleeping.
01:56:24.960 --> 01:56:25.760
What are you talking about?
01:56:26.079 --> 01:56:28.319
Like, I know she'd be sleeping here too, but normal.
01:56:28.640 --> 01:56:30.560
At least she knows she's with daddy, you know.
01:56:30.800 --> 01:56:31.199
True that.
01:56:31.439 --> 01:56:38.239
So, and she loves everybody up here, so she knows who to check, which by the way, I need to remember to get some treats because I just gave the last two out.
01:56:38.399 --> 01:56:39.680
So um all right.
01:56:39.920 --> 01:56:41.119
But yeah, that was good.
01:56:41.359 --> 01:56:44.239
Uh, Frank, again, thanks for coming on, man.
01:56:45.359 --> 01:56:46.399
Chris, thanks for being on too.
01:56:46.560 --> 01:56:52.000
I know that it was the Frank episode, but still, you know, I mean, it it's it was a good one, in my opinion.
01:56:52.159 --> 01:56:56.319
Um, I love sitting around the table because I always get to hear all these stories uh anyway.
01:56:56.399 --> 01:57:00.960
And it's like I'm grateful that I got to like, you know, like have these conversations with you, man, for sure.
01:57:01.119 --> 01:57:03.279
Yeah, I love to tell a story, whether they're not.
01:57:04.159 --> 01:57:10.399
I was gonna say, like, wait a minute, you would have told us before if you knew that famous person because you heard us talking about it one time.
01:57:10.479 --> 01:57:15.520
But no, it's incredible the career you've had and and and also the books, man.
01:57:15.600 --> 01:57:16.159
This is so cool.
01:57:16.239 --> 01:57:20.880
And again, I pick his brain all the time when I was writing my book, and I'm self-published.
01:57:21.039 --> 01:57:27.359
I was writing uh mine, and I would pick his brain because you know, I haven't been writing for 30, 40 years.
01:57:27.680 --> 01:57:33.760
So if I'm thinking about certain maybe I'm repeating myself too much, or maybe I'm quoting something improperly.
01:57:33.920 --> 01:57:40.960
And I was just telling you the other day I was reading uh Lord of the Flies, and you can't tell who's talking because they just quote one person after another, things like that.
01:57:41.119 --> 01:57:46.640
And so he would just give me, like, you know, what he does is he writes on um some inside baseball, if you will.
01:57:47.039 --> 01:57:48.079
Yeah, substack.
01:57:48.239 --> 01:57:49.439
And it's and it's good, man.
01:57:49.520 --> 01:57:51.600
And it's like, damn, I got some work to do.
01:57:52.159 --> 01:57:56.399
Yeah, you know, I I retired as a journalist, but you don't retire as a writer, you don't.
01:57:56.640 --> 01:57:57.359
Yeah, right.
01:57:57.439 --> 01:58:01.680
Well, so it's it's the way I express myself, and it's the best way I express myself.
01:58:01.760 --> 01:58:03.119
So that's I started subscribing.
01:58:03.199 --> 01:58:06.479
I used to put that stuff on Facebook, that's become a sewer.
01:58:06.800 --> 01:58:07.600
Yeah, it really is hard.
01:58:07.920 --> 01:58:09.520
It has, but I like Substack's cool, man.
01:58:09.600 --> 01:58:10.079
Yeah, Substack.
01:58:10.399 --> 01:58:12.880
When you told me about that, is that before we get out of here?
01:58:12.960 --> 01:58:13.279
What is that?
01:58:13.359 --> 01:58:14.000
It's like a blog.
01:58:14.319 --> 01:58:14.800
It's a blog.
01:58:14.960 --> 01:58:15.199
Okay.
01:58:15.359 --> 01:58:18.319
And it it doesn't, unless you uh and I don't I don't charge you.
01:58:18.640 --> 01:58:19.279
You don't have to, yeah.
01:58:19.439 --> 01:58:20.239
You just write articles.
01:58:20.640 --> 01:58:22.880
You can if you don't charge, I don't charge you.
01:58:23.039 --> 01:58:25.840
Is it something that I can like follow you on if I make an account?
01:58:26.159 --> 01:58:27.039
Yeah, I follow him.
01:58:27.199 --> 01:58:29.199
Yeah, um check that out for sure.
01:58:29.359 --> 01:58:29.520
Yeah.
01:58:29.840 --> 01:58:34.960
What's funny is I'll get emails about it from other people with like weird names, and I'm like, I've never followed that person.
01:58:35.039 --> 01:58:40.239
I don't know why I'm getting that, but I get yours, it tells me when your stuff's on there because I'm subscribed to you.
01:58:40.399 --> 01:58:44.640
And I started writing on there just like versions of a chapter of one of my books or something like that.
01:58:44.720 --> 01:58:48.399
I'll put a little article out talking about emotional intelligence or whatever.
01:58:48.720 --> 01:58:52.479
But uh yeah, it wasn't until Frank told me about that that I was like, damn, that's kind of cool.
01:58:52.560 --> 01:58:53.840
Because yeah, you want to write.
01:58:54.159 --> 01:58:56.960
Like, especially like uh I've always wanted to write.
01:58:57.119 --> 01:58:59.279
Whenever I wrote my first book, I just always wanted to write a novel.
01:58:59.359 --> 01:59:01.439
Now, have you ever thought about doing fiction?
01:59:02.079 --> 01:59:07.199
I have, but I've always found to be nonfiction stranger than fiction.
01:59:07.520 --> 01:59:07.840
Yeah.
01:59:08.079 --> 01:59:14.239
Um and so yeah, it's it's always it's it's it's what you know, it's what I've spent most of my life doing.
01:59:14.560 --> 01:59:21.279
So um yeah, the the people that story tell the people the stories that people tell, a lot of them you can't make up.
01:59:21.520 --> 01:59:21.840
Right, right.
01:59:22.399 --> 01:59:22.880
I understand that.
01:59:23.119 --> 01:59:24.079
And no one would believe you.
01:59:24.399 --> 01:59:26.079
And that's what makes it a cool story, you know.
01:59:26.399 --> 01:59:27.359
It's a cool story, bro.
01:59:27.760 --> 01:59:28.960
Yeah, so yeah, yeah.
01:59:29.199 --> 01:59:31.600
So so I've I've stuck to what I know.
01:59:32.159 --> 01:59:35.199
Um and and writers should always write about what they know.
01:59:35.600 --> 01:59:36.399
Yeah, yeah.
01:59:36.960 --> 01:59:41.760
And so uh, yes, Substack is just you could if you're a writer, you also want to write for an audience.
01:59:41.920 --> 01:59:45.199
You know, you don't want to write for yourself, you just otherwise it's a journey.
01:59:46.000 --> 01:59:49.279
Do you mind if we put your Substack on here as well, just so people can find your articles as well?
01:59:49.760 --> 01:59:53.119
And I write not only about it's not only about baseball.
01:59:53.199 --> 01:59:56.640
I was just gonna say you recently got rid of a good friend of yours.
01:59:57.840 --> 01:59:58.720
And you wrote about it, the truck.
01:59:59.039 --> 02:00:00.479
Yeah, I write about anything.
02:00:00.960 --> 02:00:06.479
He got this old truck or whatever, because he's had this truck for years and he used to take the kayak out on it.
02:00:06.560 --> 02:00:09.680
And the first time he has to take the kayak with the Tahoe.
02:00:10.239 --> 02:00:12.319
Suburban, suburban, I always say Tahoe.
02:00:12.479 --> 02:00:13.680
You fuck something up, right?
02:00:13.760 --> 02:00:14.399
Your garage door.
02:00:14.720 --> 02:00:16.159
I ran into the garage door.
02:00:17.199 --> 02:00:20.319
So yeah, and then the second time you went out, I think you broke your leg, right?
02:00:20.399 --> 02:00:22.319
Yeah, so I went out and broke my leg.
02:00:22.479 --> 02:00:23.279
So there you go.
02:00:23.760 --> 02:00:25.680
Should have I should have kept the old Toyota.
02:00:25.840 --> 02:00:27.920
Yeah, you see, it was getting rid of that truck.
02:00:28.640 --> 02:00:30.399
Yeah, that just started your downhill freaking.
02:00:30.800 --> 02:00:32.399
I I write about all kinds, just that's cool.
02:00:32.720 --> 02:00:33.199
I know, yeah.
02:00:33.359 --> 02:00:40.399
But the detail you put in, like a lot of times it's like it might be an old man that you knew that told great stories, and then you'll tell about his life or whatever.
02:00:40.479 --> 02:00:42.479
Just the storyteller in you, it's really cool.
02:00:42.720 --> 02:00:43.199
Oh, thank you.
02:00:43.520 --> 02:00:45.279
Um, but yeah, look at fiction, man.
02:00:45.359 --> 02:00:48.479
Fiction's fun because you can just make up whatever you want, it's fun.
02:00:48.720 --> 02:00:52.960
Uh I I enjoyed it, but I I need you to sign this.
02:00:53.119 --> 02:00:53.680
I'll do it.
02:00:53.840 --> 02:00:58.319
And uh, we here at the cigar shop, we all like support each other and get each other's books and everything like that.
02:00:58.560 --> 02:00:59.359
I think it's awesome.
02:00:59.520 --> 02:01:04.800
And I also think George ought to have like a stack of them in there and be like, yeah, we got an author right here, like sell the book, whatever.
02:01:04.880 --> 02:01:05.520
But 100%.
02:01:05.920 --> 02:01:08.800
It's called Tar Hero Boys of Summer, Frank Turcy.
02:01:08.960 --> 02:01:10.319
Frank, what's the V stand for?
02:01:10.399 --> 02:01:11.039
Is it Vincent?
02:01:11.279 --> 02:01:11.680
Vincent.
02:01:11.760 --> 02:01:12.319
I knew it.
02:01:13.279 --> 02:01:15.520
My name is actually Francesco Vincente.
02:01:16.079 --> 02:01:21.359
I remember I remember you saying that that it's a different yeah that's that's the Americanized version.
02:01:21.680 --> 02:01:22.000
Yeah, yeah.
02:01:22.560 --> 02:01:23.359
I go by Frank.
02:01:23.439 --> 02:01:23.600
Yeah.
02:01:24.720 --> 02:01:26.000
What Francesco?
02:01:26.079 --> 02:01:26.720
That's fun to say.
02:01:26.960 --> 02:01:27.600
Francisco.
02:01:28.000 --> 02:01:28.640
Francisco.
02:01:28.960 --> 02:01:29.600
Francisco.
02:01:29.920 --> 02:01:32.399
Hey, what's that what's that thing you taught me how to say?
02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:33.039
Capo.
02:01:33.760 --> 02:01:37.039
Capo de du Capo de Ductacopi.
02:01:37.359 --> 02:01:40.560
It's it's uh the godfather of all godfathers.
02:01:41.039 --> 02:01:41.359
That's right.
02:01:41.439 --> 02:01:43.039
It's it's it's a mafia term.
02:01:43.119 --> 02:01:45.119
It literally means head of all heads.
02:01:46.000 --> 02:01:53.039
Uh, but it it it's it referred to the the the dean of the the the the don of the five families.
02:01:53.279 --> 02:01:56.960
Uh which you gotta wait till next episode to tell that understanding.
02:01:58.399 --> 02:01:58.960
Tell a story about that.
02:01:59.439 --> 02:02:01.119
Yeah, there's a story, but you gotta wait for that.
02:02:01.600 --> 02:02:03.680
Okay, we not we're not giving that one out for free.
02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:04.479
That one's going.
02:02:04.880 --> 02:02:05.920
That's on Substack.
02:02:06.000 --> 02:02:06.640
You can find that story.
02:02:07.119 --> 02:02:07.920
Oh, is it?
02:02:08.000 --> 02:02:08.319
Yeah, yeah.
02:02:08.640 --> 02:02:08.800
Okay.
02:02:09.039 --> 02:02:09.680
I know the story.
02:02:09.760 --> 02:02:10.560
It's a good freaking story.
02:02:10.800 --> 02:02:11.600
Nah, I'm gonna make an account.
02:02:11.680 --> 02:02:12.560
I'm gonna follow you for sure.
02:02:13.600 --> 02:02:14.479
You can follow me too, dude.
02:02:14.640 --> 02:02:14.960
All right, fine.
02:02:15.199 --> 02:02:17.520
Anyway, all right, we ready for some final thoughts?
02:02:17.680 --> 02:02:18.479
Let's do it.
02:02:19.520 --> 02:02:20.880
TK, final thoughts.
02:02:21.119 --> 02:02:22.000
Final thoughts, Frank.
02:02:22.079 --> 02:02:23.039
Thanks for joining us, man.
02:02:23.119 --> 02:02:24.239
Seriously, it was awesome.
02:02:24.319 --> 02:02:25.600
Uh let's let's be real.
02:02:25.680 --> 02:02:26.880
Let's call a spade a spade.
02:02:26.960 --> 02:02:27.760
Two hours wasn't enough.
02:02:27.920 --> 02:02:28.960
You know, appreciate it, man.
02:02:29.119 --> 02:02:35.680
Much respect on a great career and still continuing writing, and just uh honored to be in the presence of you, man.
02:02:35.840 --> 02:02:36.479
Appreciate it, man.
02:02:36.640 --> 02:02:37.359
Thank you very much.
02:02:37.520 --> 02:02:38.399
Thanks for joining us.
02:02:38.640 --> 02:02:39.760
Frank, final thoughts.
02:02:39.920 --> 02:02:40.479
Thank you, guys.
02:02:40.560 --> 02:02:42.720
It was fun and thanks for the kind words.
02:02:42.960 --> 02:02:44.000
Absolutely, man.
02:02:45.199 --> 02:02:50.640
So the uh scariest words out of a marine officer's mouth is I have an idea.
02:02:51.039 --> 02:02:59.039
So after uh we turn off the mics, I'm putting in an event together, and I want you to be a part of it, Frank.
02:02:59.119 --> 02:03:00.560
So it's a dead event, I think.
02:03:00.880 --> 02:03:01.279
Yeah, okay.
02:03:01.840 --> 02:03:02.880
Yeah, it's a good one.
02:03:02.960 --> 02:03:03.920
Yeah, it's an event.
02:03:04.159 --> 02:03:05.520
And my final thoughts again, yeah.
02:03:05.600 --> 02:03:07.199
Frank, thanks for coming on, man.
02:03:07.359 --> 02:03:13.600
Um, obviously he's one of the regulars here at the cigar shop, so he's a friend of ours that we see all the time anyway.
02:03:13.680 --> 02:03:21.039
But I wanted to introduce him to our entire world of followers and uh all 167 of you.
02:03:21.199 --> 02:03:23.359
And uh we're growing.
02:03:23.600 --> 02:03:27.600
But uh, you know, these kinds of things, man, when you can talk about cool crap that's different.
02:03:27.760 --> 02:03:30.079
I mean, this is the kind of stuff we talk about in the cigar shop.
02:03:30.239 --> 02:03:47.680
When you can talk about writing or interviewing super famous people who are not even famous people, or the struggles of growing up in small town Greensboro or Greensville back then, where you're working at some mill and have and working, you know, your dream is to play baseball, but you can't afford to because you gotta have a job still.
02:03:48.159 --> 02:03:50.880
That's those are those are the kind of cool stories that you'll see in this book.
02:03:50.960 --> 02:03:51.840
So check out the book.
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Link in the description of summer.
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And we'll see you next time.
02:03:55.520 --> 02:03:57.600
This is the Hot Ashes Podcast.
02:03:58.880 --> 02:04:00.000
Oh, yeah.