How An Australian Machine Gunner Ended The Red Baron’s Reign

WEBVTT
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Honourable mentions.
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Hello, listener.
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I hope you're well.
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Welcome to another episode of your favouritist podcast in the world.
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It's only honourable mentions.
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It's only honourable mentions, and it's only Hello, Neil! Hello.
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So what's your favourite type of potato?
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And I don't mean as in like the breed or whatever you called it of potato, do you quite a breed speech?
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I don't know.
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But what's your favourite method of consuming a potato?
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Uh dauphinois.
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Do dauphin was?
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Yes.
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Most people would say chips.
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Oh.
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Or mash.
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Yeah, well I'm I'm I'm up there now.
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Celebrities got me.
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How do you think Manfred von Richthoven would have enjoyed a potato?
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Er I would have said it like he's boiled.
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Who was Manfred von Richthoven?
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Um he was a German.
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Very broad.
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Yes.
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I don't know about his shoulders, but he was he was a German.
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He was a German, and in what context would we be talking about Manfred von Richthoven, apart from his potato preference?
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I would say it's because of his pop career in the late sixties.
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His pop career in the late sixties.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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You might be thinking of a different Manfred von Richthoven to the one we're going to be discussing.
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Oh, okay.
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I'll say there's Manfred who's a man, no him.
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Manfred Mann's Earth Band and all that.
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Blinded by the light.
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Was it wrapped up like a douche in the veil of it?
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Because if it does, that's a bit awkward.
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Not really bothered, Steve, to be honest.
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Okay.
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Manfred von Richtover, Neil.
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If I said to you who was the number one flying ace of the First World War, and you may remember last week we spoke about the First World War when we covered Ernest Edward Thomas, the man who fired the first shot of the First World War.
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And if you want to go back and listen to that listener, I highly recommend it.
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Would you highly recommend it, Neil?
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Yes, I would highly recommend it.
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And I'd also recommend to follow it and share it and put a little review on, please.
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That's a very good idea, Neil.
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Yeah, I know.
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Full of them.
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Perhaps a listener would like to go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us at this one and we'll just fill time in for a little while.
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You can play with your fuzzy felts like you normally do, and I will um carry on making tinfall hats.
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And consuming your potatoes.
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And consuming my bluff and what?
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Who was the leading flying ace of the First World War?
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Um well there was a German fella, weren't they?
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Oh Yeah.
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Yeah, Red something or other.
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Red Baron.
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The Red Baron.
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The Red Baron.
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Was that him?
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The Red Baron.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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I'm in the old chateau, there's no pressure.
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The Red the Red Baron.
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Yes.
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The Red Baron, Neil.
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Yes.
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He wasn't he wasn't born to Mr.
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and Mrs.
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Barron, and they called him Red.
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Didn't they?
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His name was Manfred von Richtenstaden, whatever it was.
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Oh, you're very close.
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You're very close at remembering things happened forty seconds ago.
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Manfred von Richtoe.
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There you go.
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Told you.
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That was his actual name.
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Right.
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And Manfred von Richtofen was born into German nobility on May the second, eighteen ninety-two.
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Okay.
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He began his military training at just how old do you think?
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His military training with the Germans.
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I'd say they're starting quite young.
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Um two.
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Two?
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Yeah.
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Do you think so?
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Yeah.
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I say, sir.
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The Jerry seemed to be flinging diminutive members of their aristocracy across our trenches, sir.
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Yeah.
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Think that's what happened.
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They got them in little catapults and just flung them over at the British trenches.
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Oh, I think they're just talking about to shoot.
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So I've got this image now of a toddler with like a knife between its teeth that flung at the British trenches.
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Ah no, he was eleven.
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Oh five then.
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Eleven years old, and he went into the German army to complete his cavalry cadet training in nineteen eleven.
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Okay.
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So he was eleven when he started, so if he was born in eighteen ninety-two, that would be nineteen oh three, wouldn't it?
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Yes, it would, yes.
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And then by the time it reached nineteen eleven, so just gone ten past seven in the evening.
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He'd finished riding horses.
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He started his cavalry cadet training.
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However, and you may remember this from the last episode, listener, if you were paying attention there.
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Yeah.
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Heavy artillery and trench warfare quickly rendered the cavalry obsolete, and he was redeployed to a non-combat role, where he quickly became bored and decided he wanted to fly.
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Well, cocaine, wasn't it?
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Possibly.
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Let's have a look.
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In 1915, so quarter past seven, so it weren't there very long, about four minutes.
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Yeah.
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He secured a transfer and started flight training in October.
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It turns out he wasn't some sort of adult cocaine addict.
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He actually wanted to take up the new fangled flight of the biplanes of that era, made of wood and paper and all things secure against machine gun fire.
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Okay.
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And they're called biplanes because they had two wings on either side, didn't they?
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Alright.
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One on top of the two.
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Nothing to do with their sexual preference.
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Could have been.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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You never thought of that.
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I'll have to look that up later.
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I'll move it.
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So at quarter past seven, nineteen fifteen, he secured a transfer and started fight training, taking the liberty of mounting a machine gun on his albatross B-2 reconnaissance plane.
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Oh, they were good, they were.
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Essentially creating his own fighter.
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And it wasn't long before he shot down a French aircraft.
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He did well to shoot down a French aircraft before the French surrendered, though, didn't he?
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Yeah.
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He did well there.
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During one of his many exploits on November 23rd, 1916, he shot down and killed Major Lano L-A-N-O-E, George Hawker.
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Lano George Hawker.
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I doubt he was called Major Lano George Hawker.
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He was probably called Legion Meneer George Hawker.
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Alright.
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Something along those lines.
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So they spoke for them, wasn't it?
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It was rather, yes.
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Who at the time was the best of all the British pilots, considered by the Germans to be very big game.
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He was top gun.
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His mouth was writing checks, his body he couldn't cash.
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With twenty kills in just the one month of April nineteen seventeen.
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Lichtoeven bought his war total to an unprecedented fifty-two.
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Fifty-two?
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Swine.
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He had become a fearless as well as a ruthless killer.
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And look at this, Neil.
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Even shooting Allied pilots trying to escape from their downed planes.
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Oh, it's got to take him.
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Nah, that's that's a bit low, that is just dirty play.
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Which was a change from his attitude earlier in the conflict when he sent a box of cigars to a British opponent who survived.
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See, that's nice, isn't it?
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It's gentleman there.
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Gentlemanlare warfare.
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Don't shoot him down with a down, do you?
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It'd be funny if they were like exploding cigars.
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Just sort of left him with a black face and blink.
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By this time, of course, the Allies were concentrating intently on going after him.
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Yeah, let's get this bed in.
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Let's bloody his nose.
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Then in 1917, he took a round that grazed and splintered his skull, which caused him to suffer regular and severe headaches for the rest of his days.
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By September of that year, he'd managed to recover enough to raise his kill count to sixty.
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Sixty.
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Six zero.
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So his headache wasn't that bad, was it?
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Yeah, it's putting on.
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Oh dear, I've got such a terrific headache, I can barely see straight, I can barely cope.
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And then That's because if he missed people.
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If he missed planes of, oh it's just I had a headache at the time.
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I don't think he was missing many people, was he?
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That was his problem, our problem.
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Not his problem.
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He also took to flying the distinctive blood red triple wing Fokker DR1, from which he took the nickname Echo Through Time.
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The Red Baron.
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The Red Baron and his Fokker.
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The Red Baron.
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Yes.
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He's a beastly fellow.
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It was a call to Britain and her allies.
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Here I am.
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Come and get me if you can.
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Yeah, that would stoke my fire.
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Bally Fritz.
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Yeah, Kohar would be out for him.
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On the morning of April the twenty-first, nineteen eighteen, so nearly twenty past seven, the Baron was hit while flying over the Morlandcore Ridge near the Somme River.
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Good.
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You may have heard of the Somme in relation to the First World War.
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An Australian held sector of the Allied lines.
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Some accounts having crashing to the ground, others say that while he was shot through the torso, he maintained enough control and presence of mind to land this plane before he died of his wounds.
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So he died of his wounds?
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He died of his wounds.
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Yeah.
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He was just twenty-five years old and had a kill count of at least 80 Allied aircraft.
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It's no age, is it?
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I always think of people as being a lot older because the Red Baron, particularly Baron von Richthoven, is a name from the First World War that most people would know, I'd argue.
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I would argue as well.
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But I don't want to argue.
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I don't want to argue.
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I know, but you keep trying to bring these bloody trying to make arguments, but I'm not I'm not going there, Steve.
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I'm not arguing.
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Well I'm not going there, I'm not arguing either.
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So stop saying that I'm not arguing about you arguing.
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Yeah, but you're arguing this.
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Stop it.
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You stop it.
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You stop it.
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You stop it.
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Who fingers?
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Yeah, we're going there.
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Oh yeah.
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We've gone there.
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You can't take that back now.
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Yeah.
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Do you drop the P bomb?
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Certainly did.
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I got him there first.
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Twenty-five years old, he was just a boy.
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Yeah, he was, yeah.
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And yet, in history's terms, we think of him, we think of him being a man.
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Not not an old man, but yeah, like a this historic warrior or whatever you might want to call him.
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As with many wartime battles, there was no shortages of confusion.
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And so for years there was some uncertainty as to who actually fired the shot that took down the red burn.
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You don't upset that wouldn't you?
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But yeah, it was me.
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It was definitely me.
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People did.
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That was the confusion.
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Lots of people say, no, no, it was me.
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No, it wasn't, it was me.
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But this, Neil.
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Yeah.
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That was all preamble.
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That was all Yustarta.
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This is now the main course we're going to here.
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Because this is the story of the man who brought down cavalry captain Baron von Liktoven, known to history, as the Red Baron, the most feared flying ace of the First World War and the Allies' number one target.
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In the final few moments of his young life, Von Likethoven was pursuing a Sopworth camel piloted by Lieutenant Wilfrid May.
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He was a Canadian, and the distinctive triple winged Fokker was in turn being chased by another Canadian, Captain Roy Brown.
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Three planes flew over Moreland Core Ridge with the Baron also taking flat from an Australian machine gun detachment.
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Hot it was where below.
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That's the three planes gun over.
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Was it?
00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:33.200
Yep.
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That was very good.
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Okay.
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Right a ta-ta.
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That's the guns.
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:40.399
We should try and put that together.
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Yeah.
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Ready?
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Rat, ta tap tat.
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Right.
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Stroof, mate.
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Yeah.
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That really upputs it for the listener, I hope, listener.
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Yeah, that puts him in the picture.
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It puts him there, isn't it?
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In that chair.
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At around ten forty-five AM, a Lick Tovan was hit by a bullet that passed diagonally from right to left through his chest.
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He also sustained wounds to his knees and abdomen.
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His red plane jolted for a moment, then recovered.
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Before it crashed in the Australian lines while flying very close to the ground.
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When Australian soldiers reached the plane, Lixhoven was still alive but died moments later.
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Yeah, but they shot him.
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Eyewitnesses reported that the Baron's last words were kaput.
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Caput.
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Kaput.
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And of course, Neil, because you are bilingual.
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In fact, you're not bilingual, you're multilingual.
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.440
I am multilingual, yeah.
00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:45.759
And in fact, Neil, because you're multilingual, you be able to tell the listener what the kaput means.
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Caput means broken.
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Finished.
00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:49.200
Finished.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:50.639
It does mean finished, yes.
00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:56.559
So this is what Baron von Victoven gasped immediately before he died.
00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.159
Kaput.
00:13:58.559 --> 00:13:58.720
Okay.
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:00.000
Yeah, it was alright.
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:01.519
That's my acting.
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.320
My motivation is I'm lying on the ground in my plane.
00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:08.000
The Australians are coming.
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:09.840
I'm spitting blood.
00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.279
I'm dying here.
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:13.679
And that's my motivation, okay?
00:14:18.879 --> 00:14:19.679
How was that?
00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:21.039
That was good.
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:22.000
That was good.
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:22.879
That was awful.
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:24.960
That was that was yeah.
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:25.759
Very good.
00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:26.159
Well done.
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:26.559
Well done.
00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:27.600
Thank you.
00:14:27.679 --> 00:14:28.000
Thank you.
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:29.039
Thank you, listener.
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:30.960
That's good coming your way, I think.
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:31.600
Thank you.
00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:32.159
Yeah.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:32.559
Yeah.
00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:34.399
You can sit down now.
00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:37.039
I've got people throwing flowers at me and everything.
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:38.399
Yeah, this is getting quite embarrassing.
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:39.360
Calm down, everybody.
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:40.960
We'll carry on with the story.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:48.240
It was Captain Roy Brown in his ruthless pursuit of the Red Baron who was given the credit.
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:48.960
Was it?
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:53.440
So he's the fella in the plane behind It was beyond the Fokker.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.320
I said Fokker.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:56.080
The Red Baron.
00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:57.200
The Redon.
00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:10.159
However, medical examinations of the body revealed that Victor's death was caused by a low velocity long distance shot moving in an upward direction from the right and delivered by a ground-based weapon.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:20.320
It had to be somebody who knew how to handle their gun that'd have been around six hundred yards away in firing at Von Lichthoven's right side.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:21.360
Okay.
00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:23.919
So sit down, Roy Brown.
00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:25.440
It was at you, Sunshine.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:25.840
Yeah.
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:40.799
On the ground that morning was the 24th Australian Machine Gun Company, and one man was firing a Vickers machine gun loaded with the right calibre of bullet and from the right location.
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:42.639
What happened to you the 23rd?
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:43.919
Because it got to the 24th.
00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.440
What they just thought about, no, 22nd, they're rubbish, get rid of them.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:49.440
Let's try another lot now.
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:50.559
Well, not all of them.
00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:51.519
23rd.
00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.120
Not all of them could have borrowed the Vickers machine gun either.
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:56.720
No, that's true.
00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:02.159
So only one man was at that distance and had borrowed the Vickers machine gun.
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:02.720
Yeah.
00:16:02.960 --> 00:16:04.639
Why did Vickers have machine guns?
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:06.799
Because of unruly parishioners.
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.320
And this is your continental, wasn't it?
00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.960
Uh so perhaps if they had a burnt croissant for breakfast and they're in a bad mood.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:13.759
Yeah.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:14.480
Yeah.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:18.559
It's not like you're British when I can just give you a a a bit of a dirty look or a tut.
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:19.519
Yeah.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.200
And that put you in your place.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:22.879
Yeah, this is your continentals.
00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:24.799
They're a bit more warm-blooded, aren't they?
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:25.840
A bit more highly strong.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:27.600
So a machine gun is a necessity.
00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:28.879
Yeah, I can see that.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.080
Whereas here you wouldn't get invited to the vicar's tea morning.
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:32.720
Yeah.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:34.399
And that would be devastating.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:35.440
It would be, yeah.
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.240
Cedric Bassett Popkin.
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:39.600
Neil.
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:42.879
Yeah.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:43.679
Still there.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:47.519
Popkin, I love that's a nice name.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:17:02.320
Cedric Bassett Popkin was born in Sydney, your Australia, on the twentieth of June 1890, to William Bassett, known to everyone as Dan for some reason, and Lillian Martha Popkin.
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.880
By nineteen oh, parents had the same surname.
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:10.319
Well, she was Lillian Martha Gilbert.
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.400
She took the name Popkin upon marriage.
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.480
Yeah, I'll choose Popkin over Gilbert.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:22.960
By 1904, the family was living in Grafton near Byron Bay and the Gold Coast.
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:24.400
Very nice.
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:25.920
Have you been there?
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:26.640
Very nice.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:27.920
Why's that, please?
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:29.279
The Gold Coast.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:29.920
No.
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:32.000
But I have been to Australia.
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.480
Clang! And Sydney.
00:17:34.799 --> 00:17:38.960
Clang! And I've been to Botany Bay, but not Byron Bay.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:40.000
Oh, okay.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.319
Clang! Thank you.
00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:50.960
Cedric's two older sisters were looking after the family as their mother, Gladys, had died in 1902.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.319
Cedric, so that's about two about two minutes past seven in the evening there.
00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:14.559
Cedric, who was dark haired and of average height, took a job as a builder and later moved out to Brisbane, where he met and married a young lady named Nellie Ellen Bull on the tenth of March 1913, when he was but uh twenty-three.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:16.319
Twenty-three.
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.480
He was twenty-three when he met young chaplain, young chap.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:21.680
Old Nelly.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:29.039
Well, young chap, but only two years short of the entire lifespan of Bannon von Liechthoven.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:30.000
Yeah.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:31.839
Yeah, too.
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:44.240
The couple weren't settled in Brisbane for long, as they were soon on the move again, this time to one of your typical Australian kind of names, South Merwillenbar.
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:45.519
Mulwillenbar.
00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:47.279
In New South Wales.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.720
I've been to New South Wales.
00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:00.000
Where Cedric, although now a carpenter by trade, found work as a tobacconist, and the couple had two sons called Michael and Roland.
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:01.920
There's only snow in Australia then.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.759
Why would there be snow in Australia?
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.640
If he's sliding down the slopes.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:11.599
You said he's a tobogganist.
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:13.920
I said tobacconist.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:14.880
Oh sorry.
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:16.000
Tobacco.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:17.200
Oh okay.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:17.440
Sorry.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.960
Yeah, tobacco, like what it is, you put in your cigarettes.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:22.559
Oh yeah, carry on.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.160
You can have chewing tobacco.
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:24.799
Yeah.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:25.519
Ding!
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:26.400
That sort of stuff.
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:35.599
Eventually, the family moved to Palm Woods in Queensland before the outbreak of World War One.
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:40.720
On the 6th of May 1916, a month or so before his twenty-sixth birthday.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:41.279
Yeah.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:45.200
So he's already outlived Manfred von Lichthoven.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:45.440
Yeah.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:51.519
Cedric travelled back to Brisbane to enlist in the Australian Imperial Force.
00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:53.440
The AIF.
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:56.240
Oh, do they have stormtrooper helmets?
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:57.039
Yes.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:58.240
Cool picture now.
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:06.480
The last episode, dear listener, you may recall we spoke about the BEF, the British Expeditionary Force.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:10.079
This is the Australian Imperial Force, the AIF.
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:11.920
IOF.
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:25.759
The AIF was the main Australian military force in World War One, formed in August 1914 to fight overseas as part of the broader British Empire effort.
00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:26.400
Yeah.
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:31.599
I think they did.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.640
He was given the rank of private and the regimental number 424.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:37.839
424.
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:42.319
And attached to Machine Gun Company 7, reinforcement 6.
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.480
It's a lot of numbers to remember already, isn't it?
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:44.720
Yeah.
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:45.680
4245.
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:52.400
The company embarked from Melbourne on the 20th of October 1916, heading out to Sierra Leone.
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.799
That's French speaking, yeah.
00:20:55.039 --> 00:21:04.160
Where they were transferred to a ship called the Ulysses for the board passage to England, arriving on the 20th of December.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:04.880
Okay.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.319
Near Christmas then.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:07.359
Near Christmas.
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:15.039
Leaving the warmth of early summer back in Australia via Sierra Leone in West Africa.
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:26.720
Cedric and his mates were now whisked off to the Australian training camp at Perham Downs on Salisbury Plains, in the clutches of one of the coldest winters in British history.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.200
That must have been a shock to the old system, mustn't it?
00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:30.319
Yeah, how do they know?
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.279
How do they know what?
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:33.839
It was one of the coldest in British history.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:39.039
Well, because you look back at history and think, was there anything around here that was a bit colder than this?
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:42.319
And no, so therefore this is one of the coldest.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:49.359
They're not saying in all history, they're not saying going forwards there'll be nothing as cold as this, because they wouldn't know, would they?
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:54.720
They haven't got that kind of meteorological science as we don't have now on hill.
00:21:56.640 --> 00:21:57.200
Carry on.
00:21:57.359 --> 00:21:58.000
You're right now.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.759
Now that you were wondering about the camps.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:01.359
I suppose you may have been.
00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:08.960
The camps were large and self-contained, made up of rows and rows of corrugated iron huts with wooden floors.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:09.839
Yeah.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:14.400
Each hut took about thirty men and had electricity and heating.
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:15.519
Bloody luxury.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.079
Yeah.
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:17.920
They had it all, didn't they?
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:26.000
They had shower blocks, dining halls, medical facilities, and recreation rooms.
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:42.799
They even had vast areas of reconstructed trenches and tunnels, where recruits like Cedric were drilled in trench warfare techniques, including using bombs and grenades, firing Lewis light machine guns, dealing in with gas attacks, and constructing and repairing wire fences.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.079
So they were giving a right thorough going over what they were.
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:47.119
They were, weren't they?
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:47.759
Yeah.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:57.279
Those who required specific training for the barren hellish landscapes of no man's land were bust out for a day trip to Northampton.
00:22:57.680 --> 00:22:58.160
Yeah.
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.640
Well that'd be Yeah, that'd be as close as you can get to that sort of thing, wouldn't it?
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.200
Yeah.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:03.599
Yeah.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:04.720
If not worse.
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:06.880
Where can we send the men, sir?
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:13.440
Well, it's purely devastation and barren landscapes and hell on earth.
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:14.000
Yeah.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.920
I've got just the place, son.
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:16.559
Yeah.
00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:19.440
Stick them on a bus, follow me.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:22.799
The training was harsh, as we've already discussed.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:24.400
I mean, some of them went to Northampton.
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.720
Pushing the men to their limits, as we've just discussed, some of them went to Northampton.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:41.039
And in April 1917, Cedric dropped the only blot on his military copybook when he was reprimanded for using insulting language to a non-commissioned officer while on active duty.
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:41.759
Oh.
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:43.680
What did he say?
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:44.799
You stink of who?
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:46.160
You crevis?
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.440
You're a gid.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:49.759
Stroof, you flaming great galar.
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:50.799
Yeah.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:52.240
That's Australian.
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.960
That's a very potty mouth outburst in New Australia.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:03.680
Private Popkin was appointed acting corporal with the 24th Machine Gun Company on the 30th of August 1917.
00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:05.759
So Popkins up.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:07.519
He wasn't held back that long.
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.799
He wasn't promoted because of his pottymouth outburst.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:13.839
He was promoted despite his pottymouth outburst.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:22.240
And from there he made his way to France with his unit on the 7th of September, just under a year after they'd set sail from Australia.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:30.640
The officers all stood up and said, Right, lads, who wants to come with us to virtual certain death in the trenches?
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:36.079
Nobody moved, and they said, Or who wants to go back to Northampton?
00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.680
And everyone suddenly put their hand up and said, No, I'll I'll take the trenches, sir.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:40.000
Yeah.
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:40.240
Yeah.
00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.559
He was based as you would.
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:44.799
Anyone in their right mind.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:53.920
He was based at the machine gun corps depot in Camille, where he attended specialist machine gun training school.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.640
I don't know, it'd be interesting, wouldn't it?
00:24:58.799 --> 00:24:59.119
Yeah.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:01.119
Interesting what that school was like.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.599
There should be a sitcom or something based on that.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:04.079
Yeah.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:16.240
On the third of March nineteen eighteen, Cedric was promoted to training sergeant, and then in April to full sergeant, when one of his comrades was declared missing in action.
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:17.039
Oh no.
00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:17.759
M I A.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:23.359
M I Disturbing.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:31.200
Which all leads us to the twenty first of April nineteen eighteen at ten forty-five AM west of Vosasom.
00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:32.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.119
The day begun with a mist which was now clearing.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.799
Can you picture that?
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:49.200
The propellers of Baron von Likhoven's strikingly red single seater triplane roared overhead with a crackle of gunfire.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:59.599
Now, for you listener at home, you've probably been able to picture this because of mine and Neil's rather emotional, I thought, reenactment of this very scene.
00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:00.240
Yeah.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:07.359
He was twisting and turning in pursuit of a khaki coloured Sopworth camel heading in the west-northwest direction.
00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:12.160
A third plane, another Sopworth Camel, was chasing down the Baron.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:12.880
Oh.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:15.759
So three of them, like we said.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:33.759
The three planes flew over Moreland Corridge, and the Twenty Fourth Australian Machine Gun Company, with a detachment under the command of Sergeant Cedric Popkin, who was firing at Richthoven using the Vickers Machine Gun, as we've already discussed.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:34.240
Yeah.
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:38.880
Other Australian machine gunners and riflemen also fired at the Baron.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:49.920
Sergeant Popkin's statement recorded in the AIF War Diary of the 24th Australian Machine Gun Company for the April 1918 reads as follows.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:50.720
Okay.
00:26:51.440 --> 00:27:03.200
You can do the acting bit, or you I could do the acting, but these are the very words of Cedric Popkin from 1918 being passed down the ages for us today.
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:10.720
So he says, One of our airplanes was being engaged by a German aeroplane and was being driven down.
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:21.599
They came from an easterly direction, and when within range of my gun were flying very low just above the treetop, I immediately got my gun into action and waited for our own plane to pass me as they were very close together.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.119
And there was a risk of hitting them both.
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.720
This guy's a pro, you see, because that's what they were doing at machine gun schools.
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:27.039
Yeah.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:29.039
Learning how not to shoot your own team.
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:32.319
Yeah.
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:36.000
Today's lesson, boy, is how not to shoot your own team.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.920
Yeah, it's to teach us the Americans.
00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:46.720
Although they're always on the front line and we're way back while I was back drinking tea, according to some precedents.
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.880
I'm quite satisfied that the plane was brought down as the result of fire from my gun.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.440
So putting a claim on it.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:38.799
So back off.
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:39.920
Yeah.
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:47.200
Many have claimed credit since that faithful day, and all have their detractors and supporters.
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:48.160
Yeah.
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:54.400
Captain Roy Brown, flying in pursuit of Von Vickshoven, of course, put his hat in the ring.
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:57.759
Australian gunners with Lewis guns.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:10.240
A guy called Robert Bowie, B-U-I-E, and another fella called William John Snowy Evans, and of course Cedric Bassett Popkin.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:14.880
Popkin was an experienced anti-aircraft gunner.
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:28.559
The volume of fire from the Vickers machine gun was far greater, at least 450 rounds per minute than the bolt action Lee Enfield rifles of up to 30 rounds per minute, if used by someone who really knows what they're doing.
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:39.680
And Popkin was the only machine gunner known to have fired at Von Lichtoven from the right side and the right distance immediately before he crashed.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:44.480
It's now widely accepted that Cedric Popkin brought down the Red Baron.
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:56.400
The studies have demonstrated that the locations that the other contenders could have fired from and the timing of the crash means that none could have inflicted the fatal wounds.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:00.880
So it looks like it's our friend Cedric, doesn't it?
00:30:01.119 --> 00:30:01.680
Yes, Mr.
00:30:01.759 --> 00:30:02.400
Popkin.
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.599
Or Poppers.
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:04.160
Yeah.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:17.519
Not long after, on the nineteenth of June 1918, Sergeant Popkin was himself wounded in action, taking shrapnel to his right leg and rushed to the fourth Australian field ambulance.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.680
You get the first one, or go with this one, and then move on to the next one.
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:24.640
We move on to the next one.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:26.160
Oh, there's a bed, we've got a bed.
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:29.359
Well, that could be a prophetic statement, Neil.
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:31.039
Shall we continue with our story?
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:32.160
Sorry.
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:33.680
Oh, that's alright.
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:40.079
So this Australian field ambulance had to find the right field first, and then find the ambulance that was in it.
00:30:40.559 --> 00:30:47.039
The following day, he was moved to the 47th casualty clearing station at Rosier.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.160
Rosier.
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.839
And then on the 24th, he was moved again.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:58.799
This time to the third Australian General Hospital in the Somme area.
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:01.119
Why'd they keep moving him around?
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:04.559
Hopefully behind the lines, not like in no man's land or something.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:06.240
Yeah, why would they keep moving him around?
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:09.759
That's why I said your statement earlier is a bit prophetic, wasn't it?
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:11.839
Because they did, they kept moving him around.
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.200
Despite treatment, Cedric's condition deteriorated.
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:16.160
I wonder why.
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:17.359
Wonder why.
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:20.480
And he had to be evacuated to England.
00:31:20.720 --> 00:31:29.839
So on the 5th of July 1918, he was admitted to the Royal Victoria Hospital in Netley, Southampton, where his right leg was amputated.
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:31.039
Have they still got it?
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:33.759
So this was the 5th of July.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:36.880
He was injured on the 19th of June.
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:42.400
And he ended up in Southampton on the 5th of July to have his leg cut off.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:45.680
Do they have a museum for them sort of things in these hospitals?
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.160
Otford old legs.
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:48.799
Yeah.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:50.480
Old decomposed legs.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:52.240
Yeah, this is Cedric Popkins.
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:53.279
Yeah.
00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.200
I don't think so.
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:56.480
Perhaps they could.
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.160
Could have been a super soldier out of all the different parts.
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:02.880
Yeah.
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:04.400
Easy.
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:14.559
He remained in hospital for two months before being discharged to the second auxiliary hospital, South Ork, on the third of September 1918.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:24.559
There he remained until January nineteen nineteen, when he was invalided back to Australia, arriving home on the seventh of March.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:25.920
Yeah.
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:26.960
Long time, then.
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:39.200
In nineteen sixty-four, four years before his own death, Cedric told the Brisbane Courier Mail, I am fairly certain it was my fire which caused the Baron to crash.
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:44.559
He recalled that everyone was scrambling for souvenirs around the freshly crashed triplane.
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:48.480
With one officer claiming the Baron's gold wristwatch, yeah, bet he did.
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:49.519
Yeah, the officer.
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:51.519
It turns off that was mine.
00:32:51.920 --> 00:33:01.680
Cedric claimed a piece of fuselage, but said he was mainly interested in the£50 a month's leave everyone said he was going to get for shooting down the Red Baron.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.400
But he never did receive anything.
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:06.799
It's about right, isn't it?
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:08.160
But the officer got that as well.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:09.440
Yeah, but they did.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:19.279
He eventually lent the piece of laminated timber fuselage to someone in the William Bar who was running a war souvenir display.
00:33:19.680 --> 00:33:21.119
He never got it back.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:33.359
But his major regret was that he had not got the Baron's fur lined flying boots that he remembered as being particularly beautiful.
00:33:33.680 --> 00:33:34.319
Yeah.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.759
What was it about German footwear in the First World War?
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:41.599
Because in our last episode, listener, you may remember if you were listening.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.640
If not, go back and listen to that, then come back to this one.
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:54.640
You'll find that our heroic friend Ernest Edward Thomas crawled into a German trench and was particularly taken with their footwear.
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:55.200
Yeah.
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:59.119
Which he then took back to his trench to distribute amongst his English chums.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:33:59.759
Hmm.
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.359
Perhaps they cleaned them more often.
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.480
Perhaps it was just your typical German engineering.
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:04.880
Yeah.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:06.880
I've been self-lacing boots.
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:16.159
Do you reckon that means somewhere in Mawillium Bar in Australia, there is a piece of the Red Baron.
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:17.840
Red Baron's plane, I would think so.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.039
You'd like to think so, wouldn't you?
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:24.639
You'd like to think that that's there, or if it's put somewhere, someone stuck it away, someone had no idea what it was.
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.280
But it is.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:25.519
Yeah.
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:28.320
And it's now in a barn or it got burnt on a fire.
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:29.519
We just don't know.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:34.079
But I'd imagine that would be a very interesting museum exhibit.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.519
Yes, same with his leg.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.519
Yes, if they had kept his leg.
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:38.000
Yeah.
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:45.840
Perhaps they could have got his dying wish and put his leg into a particularly fine German flying ace boot.
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:59.039
Baron Manfred von Richthofen, the Red Baron, you may recall, was the highest scoring ace of World War One and a massive and national celebrity and hero in Germany, I need to add there.
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:11.760
Heavily promoted by the government's propaganda machine, his death was a significant blow to the German public and military morale, especially at a critical stage of the war.
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:19.599
The German government had even considered asking him to retire due to fears of the negative impact his death would have.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.639
But he declined.
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:24.480
Nine Yes.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:25.920
That many times?
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:28.079
Nine times he declined.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:28.800
Wow.
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:36.320
He was not just a successful fighter pilot, but a brilliant tactician, a charismatic commander, and an inspiring leader.
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:41.920
Yeah.
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:43.840
They'd lost a bit of their spunk.
00:35:44.159 --> 00:35:45.440
Cedric did all that.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:46.239
Yeah.
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:54.239
For the Allied forces, von Richthoven's death was a tremendous psychological victory and a huge morale boost.
00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:56.559
Hooray! Well done, Cedric.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.159
Or whoever it was.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:00.320
Well done, Cedric's officers.
00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:00.880
Yeah.
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.880
The Red Baron had become a neo-mythical dreaded figure.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:12.239
The appearance of his bright red Fokker triplane meant certain death for an allied airman.
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:18.400
His elimination was celebrated events signifying that even their greatest adversary was vulnerable.
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:19.119
Yeah.
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:20.000
Good.
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:34.719
Sergeant Cedric Popkins Carmis under pressure had removed the single most effective and feared pilot and squadron leader from the German air arm, immediately reducing the danger for Allied air crews.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:37.920
Yeah, but they're acting up in the skies again.
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.239
Get their camels up in the air.
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:50.480
Von Richtoven was given a full military funeral with honours by the Australian unit that recovered his body, including wreaths, a firing party, and an honour guard.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:51.440
Nice.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:52.320
See?
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.320
They didn't shoot them down.
00:36:54.719 --> 00:37:00.639
So even though he was their number one enemy and had killed quite a lot of their comrades.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:02.239
He was still a human being.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.119
He was still a human being, and they respected his skill at what he did.
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:08.159
Yeah.
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:16.159
He was actually eventually he was recovered and taken back to Germany, where he was still very unwell.
00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:23.440
Uh they couldn't revive him, but he's now buried, he's now buried again with four military honours and in Germany somewhere.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:24.719
Yeah.
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:33.840
Cedric Bassett Popkin died on the 26th of January 1968 at the age of 77 without any sort of national fanfare.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:34.320
Yeah.
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:39.519
He's buried in the Mount Thomson Memorial Gardens in Brisbane, Australia.
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:40.000
Okay.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:47.360
The man who accelerated the end of the 1914-1918 war.
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:57.199
So last week we had Ernest Edward Thomas, the man who fired the first shot of the First World War.
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:57.440
Yeah.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:37:58.559
He didn't start it.
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.719
It's not like he went over there going, come on then.
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:01.840
Yeah, he did.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:05.199
He he fired the first shot of the First World War.
00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:18.719
And now we've moved on to Cedric Popkin, who although he didn't fire the last shot of the First World War, because we know by a very significant effort from him though, isn't it, to change it?
00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:19.280
Yes.
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.239
I mean you may say, why are we celebrating the man who killed somebody?
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.639
And yes, that is true, he did.
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:29.039
And in fact, I'd take it he killed quite a lot more because it's war.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:30.880
What is it good for?
00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:32.559
Absolutely nothing.
00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:34.079
Say that again.
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:35.920
Absolutely nothing.
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:38.719
Yes.
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:46.559
But yeah, he accelerated the end of the war by taking out the German flying ace Baron von Olichthoven.
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:47.679
I thought you shot him down.
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:50.400
Crushing the he well, yes.
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:58.639
A little known fact was before Van Richthoven could be buried, Popkin did take him out with flowers and a full meal, put him in a nice dress.
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:04.880
And yes, as as was tradition at the time.
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:05.760
Yeah.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:13.760
He did kill a twenty-five-year-old, but that twenty-five-year-old was the number one threat to the British troops.
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:28.400
His death led to a crushing demoralisation of Germany at the critical stage of the First World War, and with no doubt whatsoever helped to accelerate the end of that war.
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:29.039
Yeah.
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:30.719
That's good in it, Blessing.
00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:37.920
But of course he didn't fire the final shots of the First World War Neil because we know that they happened where?
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.119
Right opposite side of the road to where Mr.
00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:42.639
Um what's his face, did it?
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:45.199
Edward um last week, did it?
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:45.840
Tom.
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:50.000
Where he shot the first shot, the last shot was on the opposite side of the road.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.400
Your memory's like a steel trap, isn't it?
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:53.360
I'll tell you.
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:53.920
Yeah.
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:54.960
All over it.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:57.679
Well, listener, thank you very much.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:09.840
That was the story of Cedric Popkin, the man who shot down the infamous Manfred von Lichchthoven, or Neil.
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:11.599
The Dreadbedden.
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:16.880
So if you'd like to join us again next week, dear listener, on Honourable Mentions.
00:40:17.119 --> 00:40:21.599
We've got rather a different type of episode coming your way next week, but we're not going to tell you more.
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:23.760
You just have to tune in to find out what it is.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.920
But it's jolly exciting, isn't it, Neil?
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:27.199
Yes, it is very exciting.
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.039
It's a different one from us, isn't it?
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:35.440
It will be a different type of episode, but we're looking forward to it immensely on Honourable Mentions, please.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:36.639
So thank you, listener.
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:38.400
Thank you for your time once again.
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:41.519
We will be leaving you with a tally ho and a pip tip.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:42.480
Bye.