Beating The Model: Inside A Baseball Lifer’s Playbook

WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.919
Another edition of Hold My Cutter.
00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:08.800
We're featuring the Grand Reserve on this particular episode with the great Mike Burger, a baseball lifer.
00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:10.320
Burger Bits Burger.
00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:14.400
Burger Bits Central Catholic product drafted by the Pirates.
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:25.920
Years uh in professional baseball as a player, coach, manager, and now has been a longtime uh scout, uh a manager, an assistant GM, part-time.
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:28.640
Paul Bunyan in the Paul Bunyan.
00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:30.960
Paul Bunyan in high school stats were outrageous.
00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:36.960
We talked on a previous episode with Mike about we we talked a lot about character.
00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:40.799
What what do you look for as a baseball scout, Mike?
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:45.119
And how much we always talk about baseball analytics as a scout.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.280
Do you even bring that into play?
00:00:47.520 --> 00:00:47.840
Not much.
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.759
No, you're looking at To me, that's double counting.
00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:50.799
Let the office do that.
00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:51.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:53.119
You know, as as well said.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:53.759
Thank you.
00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:54.880
Thank you.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:56.880
May I write that down.
00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:57.039
Yeah.
00:00:57.280 --> 00:00:57.439
Wow.
00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:05.040
You know, it's it's you know, you I scouting anymore, you know, you have it's don't take this the wrong way.
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.280
It's boots versus suits.
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:13.359
You know, you have the the the the young men and women in the office who are doing their and they work hard.
00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:17.359
They're tired, and I've gotten to know these these kids, and everyone's a kid relative to my age.
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:18.079
Me too.
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:19.200
They work hard.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:20.719
52 since I'm 50.
00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:21.200
Oh, that's true.
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:21.680
Yeah, 50.
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:22.560
You don't look 50.
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:23.280
You don't look 50.
00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:24.319
They were 39.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:25.599
How are you doing that?
00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:26.799
Something else.
00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:29.120
They work hard, and I've learned a lot.
00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:32.239
I have I've really I have I've gained a lot of knowledge.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:37.599
But to your question, you know, again, I I've got to I've got to beat the model.
00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:38.799
You know, everyone has a model.
00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.239
Yeah, you know, a a performance model based on analytics.
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:44.879
It's my I'm tasked with beating the model.
00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:47.760
Do I agree with the model based on a live look?
00:01:47.840 --> 00:01:53.280
Whether it's one day, two days, three days, if it's a college series, um, or do I agree with the model?
00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:58.239
So I've got to either agree or beat with the beat the model.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:02.560
And again, what I look for in large measure is athleticism.
00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:08.000
You know, how easy, you know, at you know, easy easy gets better fast.
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:14.800
You know, if somebody does things easy, there's a chance it's it's going to be easy five years, ten years down the road.
00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:17.759
Um, make up again, again, instincts.
00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:19.840
How how how well does he process?
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:25.599
Look for that one instinctual moment where everybody else would have been out of place on defense, he's there.
00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:30.800
Look for that one instinctual moment offensively, or look for that Wainwright moment.
00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:32.560
And I love Wainwright as an example.
00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.639
Wainwright loads the bases, nobody out somehow surrenders one run.
00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.439
You know, um, when the game revs up, does he slow down?
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.840
When the game revs up, does the offensive position player slow down?
00:02:46.319 --> 00:03:02.800
Um it's just all the I hate to say ancillary because they are important, but everything that that analytics can't gather, which is which is momentum, which is heartbeat, which is is swag, and and and just the moment in time that analytics doesn't measure.
00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:16.000
Mike, a lot of times years ago, I don't know if it's true now, maybe it is, but you could see when the gates open, or before gates open for that matter, you would see at least a handful of baseball scouts hanging out in the stands watching pregame stuff.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.960
Does that happen much anymore, do you think?
00:03:19.280 --> 00:03:20.479
Not as much as it should.
00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:20.719
Yeah.
00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:29.840
Um, you know, Mark Del Piano and I, who by the way had a big impact, Mark Del Piano with the New York Yankees, had a huge impact on getting you to the pirates.
00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:31.039
Now tell that story.
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:31.360
Yeah.
00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:32.400
You want me to go?
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:32.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:33.360
Yeah, please do.
00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:34.879
Okay, because tell me this.
00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.960
All we knew is we just get all the we was that the year we had like eight catchers.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:39.840
Yes, yeah.
00:03:40.319 --> 00:03:40.879
It was eight catch.
00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:42.960
And all of a sudden we get this guy from McHenry.
00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:44.159
And we get this guy McKenry.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:45.280
Well, you guys get this guy.
00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:47.120
So it's in your blood.
00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:47.360
Yeah.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:54.879
Mark Delpiano, who's a dear friend of mine, who is a special assistant with the New York Yankees, who was once a pirate and valued.
00:03:55.039 --> 00:03:57.680
Clint valued him, Neil valued him.
00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.400
Um, and again, Delp is like a brother to me.
00:04:00.639 --> 00:04:04.000
Delp is in, correct me, he was in Pawtucket in 2011.
00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:05.599
So you're playing in the Red Sox or something.
00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.879
He just got traded from Colorado to Boston.
00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:09.919
Minor league deal.
00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:11.120
Did some taxi squatting.
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:12.000
Taxi squatting.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.800
You're playing AAA in the Red Sox organization.
00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:15.360
Correct.
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:16.399
In 2011.
00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:18.160
Chili Davis, my head coach, who I love.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:20.160
Who are the big league catchers?
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.759
That that were that were Veritec and Saltamakia.
00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:24.000
Okay.
00:04:24.319 --> 00:04:24.720
In Boston.
00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:25.279
In Boston.
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:27.040
But who were the big league catchers in Pittsburgh?
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:28.079
Seven or eight of them.
00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:28.720
That's an old coach.
00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:30.319
Chris Snyder and Jerry Elman.
00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:31.759
Oh, oh, oh, those are two of them.
00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:32.240
Two of them.
00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:33.360
But they were ended up being eight.
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:34.800
Eric Fryer.
00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:34.959
Yeah.
00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:35.920
Eric Fryer, man.
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:36.639
Guy had a good arm.
00:04:36.879 --> 00:04:37.680
Wyatt, remember Wyatt.
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.480
Wyatt Torreas played one, I think, one game and then became a right away that year, like an advanced.
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:43.839
Yeah.
00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:44.720
Video scout.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:44.959
Yeah.
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:45.519
It's wild.
00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:48.000
So this is 2011.
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:49.040
I guess I'm with it.
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:50.480
I'm the farm director in Arizona.
00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:52.480
And again, Delp and I are like this.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.279
So Delp calls me, as we all do in our business.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:56.879
You check in with your buddies.
00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:05.040
And uh Delp says, I'm up here in Pawtucket on just on regular assigned pro coverage working for the pirates.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:14.319
And as the story goes, correct me if I'm wrong, he said, I'm in here in June, and we've got a massive casualty situation.
00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.160
We lost five catchers in Pittsburgh.
00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:20.160
They all broke like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, which you guys just alluded to.
00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:31.279
He said, So I'm up here in Pawtucket, and he said, Ford shows up to Paw Tucket by way of Colorado in a trade.
00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.319
And he said, I just seen him in Colorado Springs, right?
00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:36.800
He said, I saw him catch a couple weeks ago in Colorado Springs.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:37.519
I kind of liked it.
00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:38.959
He's kind of pretty good.
00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:44.000
Arnie Baylor is the triple A manager for the Red Sox in Pawtucket.
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:46.240
And Delp had a relationship with Arnie.
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:48.000
This is Scouting 101.
00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:59.920
He said, I got a relationship with Arnie Baylor because Arnie Baylor was when Delp was the farm director in in Miami, Baylor was one of his Myerly coaches.
00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:04.399
So I roll in, I'm doing my coverage, Arnie's the manager in Pawtucket.
00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:06.959
I see McHenry on the roster.
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:09.600
I just saw him a couple weeks ago in Colorado Springs.
00:06:09.680 --> 00:06:11.600
I said, this guy can catch and throw.
00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:16.000
And we've got a casualty situation at Federal Street in Pittsburgh.
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:18.879
So he said, I pull Arnie aside, say, dude, good seeing you.
00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.040
Hey, listen, can you do me a favor?
00:06:21.439 --> 00:06:23.600
Can you catch McHenry while I'm here?
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:31.279
Now, mind you, this is a pirate guy asking a Red Sox AAA manager to basically reconstruct his line.
00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:34.160
Yeah, because we had a top prospect there too, an Esposito.
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:35.199
An Esposito, that's right.
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:40.000
Yeah, so they they were they pretty much knew, hey, if I get called up, I'm gonna probably play sparingly, right?
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:41.519
Because Salty was getting every name.
00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:43.759
Veritat go down, I was gonna be the backup.
00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:45.199
So they were doing what I think.
00:06:47.920 --> 00:06:48.480
Mike?
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:50.240
I can't remember his first name.
00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:51.439
Did you ever make it to the big leagues?
00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:51.839
Yeah.
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.120
Espo made it to the big leagues.
00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:54.000
Yeah, he made it to the big leagues.
00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:54.959
But didn't have your career.
00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:55.759
Didn't have your career.
00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.399
Okay, okay.
00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:58.240
As as as the story would go.
00:06:58.399 --> 00:06:58.639
Yeah.
00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:03.360
So so Delp rolls in, he says, hey, look, we got a major situation here in Pittsburgh.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:05.279
We're just catchers are breaking down left and right.
00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:06.160
Do me a favor.
00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:09.360
I just saw McHenry catch in Colorado Springs a few weeks ago.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:12.160
Can you do your old farm director a favor and catch him?
00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:14.319
Because I need some I need some dope on him.
00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:15.759
So Arnie catches him.
00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.240
So Del Piano, I remember this like it was yesterday.
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:18.639
So great.
00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:23.199
Del Piano says, Berggs, I'm telling you, he said, McHenry comes in.
00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:24.800
He's got some crippled power.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:26.639
It's kind of an out around swing.
00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:34.160
He's got some cripple power, but he said, Berggs, I'm telling you, if you threw this son of a bitch four balls in the dirt at the same time, he'd block all four of them.
00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:35.920
And he's got a cannon for an arm.
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.279
It's kind of Russ Martin, albeit a generic version.
00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.720
So Arnie obliges, catches him.
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:43.839
The rest is history.
00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.240
Delp calls Neil Huntington, and Neil, I guess, agreed.
00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:52.480
So, you know what, our metrics on him are good, whatever it was at the time, because it's pre-video.
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:52.720
Yeah.
00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:54.800
To Neil's credit, it's pre-video.
00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:56.959
They 50 grand?
00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:58.879
Was it 50 grand they get you?
00:07:59.120 --> 00:07:59.600
I know that now.
00:07:59.680 --> 00:07:59.839
Yeah.
00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:00.560
50 grand.
00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:01.439
I think it was 50 grand.
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:02.480
He wasn't a bag of balls.
00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:04.959
So Theo Epstein, Theo was a GM.
00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:16.000
Theo and Neil agree to a deal to get some quote-unquote backup guy, emergency guy into Pittsburgh named Michael McHenry for 50 grand.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.680
And here we are.
00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:28.560
And this again, it's a credit to you for again the makeup, the tenacity that you had, and then to to parlay that into what you're doing now, which I admire.
00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:36.320
Here we are, 14 years, almost 14 years later, again, weaving his way into a pirate icon.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:45.919
Albeit, you know, with a couple couple clutch home runs during that period, the great catch and throw, albeit with some peaks and valleys, to your catching career.
00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:51.600
And it's all because of Mark Del Piano, who also got AJ Burnett, or I'm sorry, Jason Grilly.
00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:53.360
Jason Grilly in the scene.
00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:54.799
From the Phillies Minor Leagues.
00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:56.399
Phillies Minor Leagues Lee High Valley.
00:08:57.679 --> 00:08:59.840
Grilly was uh washed up.
00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:00.639
Washed up.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:02.240
Who is this guy?
00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:02.879
Washed up.
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:08.240
Del Piano went to whoever the manager was and said, Hey, listen, can you get Grilly to throw?
00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:11.840
I need to throw in the freaking impact in ninth inning.
00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:12.799
He does it once.
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:15.120
He said, All right, I don't trust it, do it again.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:15.600
What?
00:09:15.840 --> 00:09:18.960
Because Del Piano had Grilly as a Marlin too.
00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:27.279
He does it again like the next day, gets on the phone with Neil and Clint, and you guys got an all-star closure for two years.
00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:30.399
Again, it again, we're all over the map here.
00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:31.919
It all goes back to scouting.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:33.360
But how about those connections?
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:34.159
How about those connections?
00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.120
How important those are.
00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:35.600
My gosh.
00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:37.759
Clint had us both in Colorado.
00:09:37.919 --> 00:09:38.320
There you go.
00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:39.840
We were teammates in Colorado.
00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:40.879
You and Grilly?
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:41.200
Yeah.
00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.120
I mean, wild wild enough, like how small baseball gets at times.
00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:56.799
And because you got a scout, again, with with elite instincts, with elite character, and and and creativity where that was off the charts and say, look, you know what, Arnie, I was your farm director.
00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.039
I was your farm director in Miami.
00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.879
Do your old boss a favor.
00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:02.559
Let McHenry catch.
00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:03.200
He does.
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:04.080
Boom.
00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:06.320
Fast forward to Lee High Valley.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.200
I think they were in Syracuse when he got grilly.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:10.399
And grilly was done.
00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:12.080
He wasn't going anywhere in Philly.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:12.480
Yeah.
00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.960
He get him to throw the eighth inning, ninth inning, whatever it was, do it again.
00:10:17.200 --> 00:10:25.360
And then boom, he's got to, you know, he's got to throw himself at the mercy of the court to Neil Huntington, Clint Hurdle, and boom.
00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.240
And that's just tip of the iceberg with Del Piano.
00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:34.399
It's it's McHenry, it's Grilly, it's Liriano, it's AJ Burnett, it's Russ Martin.
00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:40.480
This is what Mark Del Piano did for your organization during that run of greatness.
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:42.799
And you know, again, unsung heroes.
00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:44.159
Yeah.
00:10:44.879 --> 00:10:45.759
That's what I strive to be.
00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:46.559
That is so cool.
00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:47.519
That's amazing.
00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:47.919
Yeah.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:49.039
That's cool.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:49.600
You mentioned that.
00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:49.840
Yeah.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:54.879
Well, you talk about and those guys you talked about earlier about character and guys that want to be great.
00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:56.240
Talk about what Blast said.
00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.840
You know, do you have the obsession with wanting to be great?
00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:05.360
And all those guys did, even though some thought like a guy like Really was washed up, really wanted to be great.
00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:06.480
He loved those moments.
00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.519
They change.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:08.399
Players change.
00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:09.039
100.
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:14.399
Um you talked earlier about your dream of getting to the big leagues.
00:11:14.639 --> 00:11:16.720
And there are only two leagues, by the way, the burger.
00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:18.159
Only two leagues this guy didn't play in.
00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:19.200
Only two.
00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:19.840
Right?
00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.600
American League and National League.
00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:32.159
But you also aspired to be a manager, and an opportunity, I think, had come up once years ago when you were with the Martin.
00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:34.320
Because you were really close with the owner, Jeffrey Laurie.
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:36.960
Did you have an opportunity to manage?
00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:37.679
Yeah, I didn't.
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:38.960
What happened?
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:40.320
I love this.
00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:40.960
Go ahead.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:50.879
Um, whatever year Dan Jennings ultimately took the reins from Mike Redman, who Red, if you're watching, I fought tooth and nail not to have you dismissed.
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:56.879
Because I I thought Mike Redman, who's now bench coach in color, I thought Red galvanized the club.
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.759
But we open up, the Miami Marlins open up in New York with the Mets that year.
00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:02.240
Mr.
00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.960
Loria, who's a dear friend, I owe so much to Mr.
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:06.480
Loria to this day.
00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:08.399
We opened up with the Mets, and Mr.
00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:09.679
Loria lives in New York.
00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:16.000
And the the the tide uh would would rise and fall with how we played against the Mets.
00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.440
I think we lost the first freaking three against the Mets.
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:20.639
And he's making changes.
00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:22.720
He's tapping into his inner Steinbrenner.
00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:23.840
We're making changes.
00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.120
Jeffrey, we're not doing it.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.000
I'm the AGM.
00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:27.840
Mind you, DJ's the manager.
00:12:27.919 --> 00:12:29.919
Mike Hill, who I adore.
00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.919
Mike's the you know, a uh high-powered man now in the commissioner's office.
00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:35.840
Jeffrey, don't do it, Jeffrey, don't do it.
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:38.159
But they knew that I had the relationship with Jeffrey.
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:46.080
Because I brought Michael Hill and Dan Jennings to Jeffrey Loria because of when you and I were competing against one another in AAA.
00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:47.519
How'd that go, by the way?
00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:48.480
How'd what go?
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:49.440
That competing.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:50.720
Buffalo and Oakney City.
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:51.039
Oh, I'm not sure.
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:52.320
Anyway, so let's go back to Loria.
00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:55.759
So another Buffalo loss.
00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:57.679
Bam.
00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.200
So you and Loria were awfully tired.
00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.080
I remember that because Loria Loria didn't know much at all about baseball.
00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:05.440
Jeffrey did.
00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:06.240
To his credit, he did.
00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.240
He's a fan, but he didn't know it like you, obviously.
00:13:08.639 --> 00:13:12.480
Not like I knew it, but he was impulsive and he high degree give a shit.
00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:13.279
High degree.
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:13.600
Yeah.
00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:14.639
Players love him.
00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:15.759
To this day, players love him.
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.639
Interesting because he does not have a great name necessarily around his baseball circle.
00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:22.000
He's in a players love him.
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:23.039
Isn't that interesting?
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:29.039
But but he had an inner Steinbrenner where it's fire Billy Martin eight, nine times, bring him back.
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:35.279
The only problem was he would bring a new man, whether it's Ozzy Geon, whether it's Mike Redmond, whether it's whomever.
00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:41.039
So again, Mike Redman got in Jeffree's crosshairs in April.
00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:45.279
0-2 or 0-3 in New York with against the Mets, he's gone.
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:46.159
Tough league.
00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:46.960
Tough league.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:49.200
So I gotta fight him tooth and nail.
00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:50.720
I don't win the battle.
00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.000
We interviewed Jimmy Leland at his residence here in Pittsburgh.
00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:55.840
Dusty Baker wasn't good enough.
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.639
Blah, Delarie Boa, whoever it was.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:13:59.519
So Mr.
00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:05.600
Lori, uh, once he realized he wasn't getting Leland, who I said, if you're gonna replace Mike Redmond, you get Leland.
00:14:06.000 --> 00:14:06.879
Jimmy wouldn't do it.
00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:08.480
We interviewed Jimmy out here.
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:10.720
Jimmy's smoking Marlboro's.
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.159
Katie made sandwiches.
00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:12.879
She went to the pool.
00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.879
She said, I'm not getting anywhere near this shit.
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.399
Leland, Leland, Lori, and yours truly are there.
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.559
Jimmy's flicking a marlboro about every 10 minutes off the rap balcony.
00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:25.120
Finally, Mr.
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:29.200
Lorius says, Jimmy, I gotta ask you, who picks all those butts?
00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:31.360
He says, I do if the deer don't eat them.
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:34.000
So we're not getting Leland.
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:40.799
So Lori says, he focuses attentions on me, who I was as triple A hitting coach in Oklahoma City.
00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:42.159
I was a minor league manager.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.960
He said, Why don't you do it?
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.840
And I go, I'm not managing the Miami Mars.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:49.120
He goes, Yeah, you are.
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:53.200
He goes, you were my triple A hitting coach in Oklahoma City back in the 90s.
00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:54.480
We won a championship.
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:57.919
We beat Buffalo, and you've been a minor league manager.
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.159
I said, Jeffrey, I'm not qualified.
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:01.120
And I'm sincere.
00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:02.559
Like I grew up in the business.
00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:04.080
I'm not qualified.
00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:07.279
I grew up under watching Leland, Tanner, Murtaugh.
00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:09.039
I'm not qualified.
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.600
And he kept writing me for about two weeks.
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.960
Why did you say you weren't qualified?
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:15.919
On paper you were, but in your mind you weren't.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.759
In today's world, I might be, but in my in my heart of hearts, I knew I wasn't.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:20.480
That's all that matters.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:28.960
Because I got too much respect for the guys that did it, the Lelands, the Tommy Thompsons, who you referenced earlier, who rode those damn buses.
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.279
Um, 2000 games.
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:32.639
I just, that's the way I was wired.
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:38.320
I mean, my old man told me, you don't walk on that minor league on that minorly major league field unless you're in uniform.
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:40.159
I always, to this day, I walked a warning track.
00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:44.559
By the way, Jack Berger, his father, 35 years on the Pirates Organization, basically.
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:50.320
Just wouldn't do it because my mom, my father was raised under Branch Ricky, under Dan Murtaugh, etc.
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.600
So I kept telling him no, no, no, no, no.
00:15:53.840 --> 00:15:55.279
The last call I got from Mr.
00:15:55.360 --> 00:16:02.639
Loria as an assistant general manager for the Miami Marlins, I'm in Jupiter, Florida, watching our Florida Florida State League team play.
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:04.799
Castillo's pitching.
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.840
I go back to the hotel, my wife's there.
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:08.960
Jeffrey calls.
00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:09.840
I pick up the phone.
00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:10.960
I said, Oh, this ought to be good.
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.559
It's like one o'clock in the morning.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:15.679
Jeffrey said, Well, are you gonna manage my team?
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:16.799
I said, No.
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:17.679
Let me guess.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:19.039
You're not qualified.
00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:20.879
I said, Jeffrey, exactly.
00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:26.799
I've got Ichiro, I've got uh Stanton, I've got Ozuna, I've got Yelich, I've got Prado, I've got Riam.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:28.879
Jeffrey, I'm not qualified.
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:30.639
He said, Well, you were my hitting coach.
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.720
You were my man, I'm not qualified.
00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.240
24 hours later, we fire Mike Redman.
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:40.799
Fulton Awitch is throwing a no-hitter against us on a getaway day in Miami.
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:43.840
Fulton Awitch has a no-hitter going through eight.
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.000
Redmond is done.
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:47.759
Mr.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.399
Laurie decides he's gonna fire Mike Redman.
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.120
Mike Hill tells me that as our GM.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:55.519
I go down in the office post-game.
00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:57.440
Dan Jennings is in the office.
00:16:57.519 --> 00:16:58.399
He's our GM.
00:16:58.639 --> 00:16:59.919
And I respect DJ.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:03.679
It's five, six, seven, ten minutes after the game's over.
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:06.319
I said, DJ, you gotta get down to the office.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:07.599
Red just got fired.
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.599
He said, Burgess, I can't do it.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:11.200
And I go, what do you mean you're the GM?
00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:12.400
He said, close the door.
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:13.680
So I close the door.
00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:19.519
I sit down in front of DJ's desk, and DJ says, Bergs, I can't do it because I'm his replacement.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:20.319
Oh man.
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:21.839
I go, Oh man.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:22.799
So I hug him.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.640
I go, DJ, congratulations.
00:17:24.799 --> 00:17:27.200
He says, God damn it, Poppy, it should have been you.
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:28.880
You've managed in the minor league.
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:30.960
He said, I said, I'm not qualified.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:32.559
He said, Neither am I.
00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:36.720
So they hired the guy that was less qualified, way less qualified.
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:37.519
Great dude.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.519
DJ hired DJ was there when we signed most of these guys.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.200
But the only regret I have in not taking that job, and it's selfish, because I knew I would have failed.
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:47.920
No, you're not.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.559
We had a four-game series against the Diamondbacks.
00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:53.519
Four game series against the Diamondbacks in Miami.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:58.240
The next road trip, the first road trip the new manager is making right here at Pittsburgh.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.359
Yeah, right here in Pittsburgh.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:00.000
Can you imagine?
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:01.440
And I mean, I'm a Pittsburgh.
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:03.200
I'm a Pittsburgh dude.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:04.559
I'm a Pittsburgh pirate.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:05.759
I'm thinking of my father.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.720
I'm thinking of the Stargil statue, the Wagner statue.
00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:14.480
My dad, my dad used to take ground balls from Hannes Wagner at Forbes Field when he was a kid in the 30s.
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:16.880
I think, how cool, but you know what?
00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:18.720
No, I can't manage Ichiro.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:24.079
Knowing he's going to the Hall of Fame and Yelits, who I want to bring him with me to Milwaukee.
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:25.440
I wasn't qualified.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.559
So that's it.
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.640
That was my I could have done it.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:29.599
I didn't do it.
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:30.960
And I'm glad I didn't do it.
00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:32.160
Do you ever wonder, though?
00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:34.480
Really, when you think at the time you say you weren't.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:35.519
It's all fired up now.
00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:36.960
Wonder what would have happened.
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:38.319
Yeah, I think you know what?
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:43.039
Yeah, you know, the ego in me says I would have been, I probably would have been pretty good.
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:44.000
You'd have been great.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.359
Because I would have deflected responsibility.
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:54.640
As I told Ford earlier, you know, you get into big leagues and you're the only one here on the sets that's played in the big leagues.
00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:56.240
That's the Audubon, man.
00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:58.480
That's 120 frickin' miles an hour.
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:00.240
The big leagues is a whole different animal.
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:05.039
Like an NFL, NFL field, uh NBA court on the NHL ice.
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.799
That's a whole different field.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:15.200
But I had enough wisdom at the time that I would have deflected the areas of responsibility to people who knew it better than I did.
00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:16.240
Because I've always been good at that.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:35.119
I've always been good at recommending, and I've hired a lot of people and I've recommended a lot of people, people who I knew in my heart of hearts, whether it's Del Piano, La Cava, Brad Arnsberg, Jim Benedict, the list goes on, who I in my heart of hearts knew were at the very least my equal, if not better.
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:37.279
So I probably could have pulled it off, but not.
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:39.519
You know, you mentioned your dad.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.319
We gotta get to this.
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:45.279
Your dad, Jack, your grandfather, uh Jack Sr.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:51.039
was a longtime Pittsburgh cartoonist, sports cartoonist.
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.000
Flip the top.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.720
And yeah.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:53.920
Sorry, flip the top.
00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:54.880
No, no, flip flip the little.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:55.599
Oh god, help me.
00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:56.720
Sorry.
00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:57.759
Oh, there we go.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.240
There we go.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:58.720
That'll help.
00:19:58.799 --> 00:19:59.519
That's an auto model.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:01.359
A similar mistake we made.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.720
Well, Hannah Mears was our guest.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:04.480
Yeah.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:05.759
I like Hannah, by the way.
00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:06.240
Oh, she's great.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.000
Yeah, she's tremendous.
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:16.880
Um, but so Jack Berger, a lot of years in the uh Pirates Organization, some 35 years.
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:24.559
Do you know I was listening to during the wintertime, I got old cassette tapes for years that I go back and try and listen to.
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:28.799
And one of these days I'll do an inventory and you know digitize it.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:29.680
Haven't done that yet.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.240
But I came across, it's just a couple weeks ago, Berg.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:40.319
Your father was being interviewed by some local station about how he got to become a broadcaster.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:41.519
Nellie King.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.559
Do you know that story?
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:44.880
Well, Nelly, my dad recommended Nellie.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.839
Nellie King, but he said he's talking about the story.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:21:00.319
Nellie was doing some, had a job out of doing insurance, and then and then somebody from New Kensington, a New Kensington station, asked somebody about who he could get, and he wanted Joe DiMaggio.
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:04.079
The guy said, and he goes, What about Nelly King?
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:05.119
Nellie King would be good.
00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:05.440
Yep.
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:08.960
And Nellie King ended up being a pirate broadcaster with Bob Prince for years.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:09.839
Legendary.
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:10.799
Yeah, legendary.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.799
Uh so you were aware that that that your dad recommended Nelly.
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:16.079
Because Nellie was close.
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.440
My mother's Nell, but we like to say she was named after Nelly.
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:20.160
Oh my gosh.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:21.200
Yeah, whatever.
00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:25.200
Um, but yeah, the the the the Prince and King.
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:30.400
And again, I hold you in that regard um as as you know, passing the torch.
00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:32.000
But yeah, I I knew of that.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:36.240
Um Nelly King, uh, you don't obviously you weren't around with Nellie King.
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.519
It was alleged, I think it was W like J W J S in McKee.
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:40.720
Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah.
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.200
I think so.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.480
Yeah, and and my father, again, just instincts.
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:54.400
My father had heard Nelly um do news or whatever it was at the time and said he'd be fan and he had pitched for the pirates in the fifties, brief stint.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.279
My dad may have been his GM in the Meyer Leagues.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.759
My gosh, I forgot your father was back in Brunswick.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:00.640
Wow.
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.079
That's probably the time.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:03.839
All instincts.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:07.599
And yeah, I do remember they wanted Joe DiMaggio to commit into.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.960
Yeah, okay, Joe DiMaggio is coming in to do pirate baseball.
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:12.880
But it wanted to be Nellie King.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.799
And yeah, the rest is history.
00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:17.680
Nelly did the last game at Three Rivers, didn't he?
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.559
Well, he did.
00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:20.640
He he and Blast and I went on TV.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:21.039
That's right.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:36.160
But going back to what you said about confidence in the first episode, when someone that you either admire or look up to comes to you and humbly says, I believe you'll be great at this, there's no better way to raise a man's confidence than that.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:37.920
Especially it's if it's a man you look up to.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:38.640
Do you agree?
00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:39.440
Yeah.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.799
I mean, you're playing and you were you're an up-down player.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:45.920
Yeah, and 99% of that was confidence.
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:46.319
Yeah.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:48.000
Do I believe I can do this?
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:48.400
Yeah.
00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:49.599
How'd you get your start?
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:54.720
Who threw you the mic and said, and I should know this, and I probably do.
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.160
Who threw you the mic and said, hey, Brownie, go do this in a minute?
00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:58.960
Mike Lang, yeah.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:22:59.519
Mike Lang.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:22:59.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:00.480
Do you remember that?
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.359
And who's your mentor?
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:02.319
Yeah, yeah, Mike.
00:23:02.480 --> 00:23:02.640
Yeah.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:02.960
Yeah.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:05.920
Because he, you know, he he saw, he always says that now.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:07.039
He deflects that.
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:07.920
But yeah, he saw it.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:10.480
Somebody else deflects the great ones, do.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:15.359
But hey, so now I've got uh the logos.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:15.759
Oh yeah.
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.960
And and and the burger ties to the pirate logos.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:19.599
That's pretty cool.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:20.720
It's pretty cool.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:27.599
So there have been about eight different logos over the years for the Pittsburgh Pirates.
00:23:28.400 --> 00:23:35.759
Um your grandfather, Jack Sr., created the bucket, the Skull and Cross.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:37.680
The Skull and Cross, the old old school.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.759
And then and then in fact, wait, I gotta I gotta read something from a newspaper clip from the 80s.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.119
I think that's my favorite one.
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:46.000
Which one?
00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.079
Oh, the old the old school of the it really is.
00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:50.319
Like all bias aside, it's really cool.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:51.599
I wish they'd go back to it.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:24:02.000
So this this article in the Pittsburgh Press in the mid-80s, technically, he was a fierce customer with a mustache, pointed sideburns, a shadowy face, and sometimes an eye patch.
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.319
A scowl was his most salient feature.
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:18.799
Jack Berger, senior sports cartoonist for 42 years at the Pittsburgh Press, softened the pirate's image in the mid-1950s, and Bob Gessner further refined it in 1967 when he designed the current logo.
00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.039
Well, then in around 1971, I believe it was.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:24.799
It was okay, 70.
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:26.079
When they left Fort Field.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:32.079
Okay, that's uh they they went to the the smiling pirate, the the which was for years.
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:32.559
The bucket.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.880
It debuted in 1971, I guess.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:39.279
But your mom and dad had something to do with that.
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:42.960
Not the cartoonist grandfather, he had passed by this time.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:44.559
Tell us that story.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:52.240
Well, yeah, so when when they left, and the way I and I've talked to my mother, who's again still alive and very well at 92 in March.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:54.480
Will she watch uh Hold My Cutter, you think?
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:55.519
Oh, absolutely.
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.640
No, she does, she's that regular viewer listener anyway.
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:03.920
She wanted to call in and she loves, I'm telling you, from the heart.
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:06.799
She loves Greg Brown and she loves Steve Blass.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.319
She I mean, loves burger's like a second brother.
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.759
But every four or five months, they'll always say, Yeah, no burger.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.079
And she, I mean, my mother's a baseball widow because of my father's involvement.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.559
So, to your question, get to the point, sir, as great, as the great Jeff Cox would say.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.680
Cox, beat up, beat up, beat up.
00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:42.400
So when they left, when we left Forbes Field and went to Three River Stadium in 1970, in June of '70, not only were we changing stadiums, we were going to this all-purpose, you know, what ultimately wound up being an ashtray with great memories.
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:52.720
They wanted to change the image from the old buccaneer, the iPad, Skull and Crossbones, which my father grandfather designed, to a new modernized logo.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:26:01.440
So my father, Jack Berger the second, was on the committee to redesign this new image.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:09.039
My father asked my mother, they're gonna go with a more retro pirate, a more retro logo.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:23.119
My father says, You always have told me that you find Frank Gifford, the deceased Hall of Fame NFL player, you always find Frank Gifford to be a handsome, rugged man.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.079
And of course, my mother back, oh, of course, he's great.
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:31.599
It's before Kathy Lee, player broadcaster, longtime broadcaster NFL football game.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:31.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:32.480
Frank Gifford.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:33.119
Legend.
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:33.680
Yep.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:39.279
So the likeness of that 1970 logo, which probably went to what 80?
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:39.680
Probably.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:42.240
The likeness of that logo.
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:44.799
No, 1987.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.119
Wow.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:46.160
71.
00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:47.039
To 87.
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:48.000
Yeah, 71.
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:57.680
So the two logos in 71 and 79 are the new Buccaneer, the logo of that sculpted jaw, that is the likeness of Frank.
00:26:58.079 --> 00:26:59.039
Kind of like you guys.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:00.079
Sculpted jaw.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:00.799
Pretty much, yeah.
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:01.359
Yeah.
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:02.079
Pretty much.
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:04.559
But without the gray, he had the bandana to color the gray.
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:05.119
Exactly.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:05.279
Yeah.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:05.599
Good.
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:07.200
And there's a story that made him look younger.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:09.599
And there's a story that's there's a I get it.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:11.920
If I had a bandana, I'd look younger like you.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:13.440
It's not a bandana.
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:15.039
Truthfully, there's it's the babushka.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:15.599
Oh, that's right.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:16.319
Yeah, it's the babushka.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:17.039
Yes.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:17.920
The babushka.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:20.079
My mother, my grandmother wore a babushka.
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.039
So that was her babushka.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.759
Incredible.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.480
How about that?
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:29.839
My grandmother Marie McCabe, who my father's mother always wore a babushka around her neck.
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:32.799
And um so I don't know if I've heard that word to law.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:33.359
Babushka.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:34.079
Babushka power.
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:35.200
Babushka power.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:48.720
So the likeness of that logo that followed the pirates from Fort Field to PN or to Three River Stadium is the likeness of Frank Gifford, which my mother, which my father said, you always said Frank Gifford.
00:27:48.960 --> 00:27:51.519
We're looking for a more modernized, more chiseled.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.160
You've always said Frank Gifford was a handsome man, to which my mother said, Oh, absolutely.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:27:57.680
So that's Gifford's likeness.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.480
Frank Gifford, the Hall of Fame NFL guy, Notre Dame.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:01.359
With the babushka.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:08.720
With the babushka that was grandmother, my grandmother Marie McCabe, who died in 79, right after Chuck Tanner's mother.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:09.920
I didn't know that.
00:28:10.160 --> 00:28:10.319
Yeah.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:11.599
So that's it.
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.559
So again, it's incredible.
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:15.680
It's cool.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:21.279
And you know, my grandfather, again, my grandfather Jack, who did the skull and crossbones.
00:28:21.359 --> 00:28:22.400
I don't know if you knew this.
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:31.599
My grandfather, who did the skull and crossbones, also, God is my judge, right hand, also designed the NFL shield.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:32.799
The NFL logo.
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:34.160
I think that's right.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:35.920
The original NFL logo.
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:36.960
How about that?
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.079
In 19.
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:41.279
I remember my father telling me they lived in Edgewood.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:47.519
So my father would have been, my father was 1925, he was probably 31 or 33.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:56.160
George Hallis, the owner of the Bears, and Art Rooney Sr., the chief, were very close with my grandfather, Jack Sr.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.359
And again, world-renowned cartoon artist.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:08.319
They came to my grandfather and said, Hey, we need an identifying marker to kind of represent the new NFL.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:14.799
And my grandfather designed the original NFL logo, which the NFL adopted.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:28.240
Now it's been modified probably 15-20 times since 33, but the original shield was that of my great-grandfather, my grandfather Jack Berger, who was a cartoon artist for the Pittsburgh Press.
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:34.720
If we could ever find the original, and I've got a lot of his original work, none of which is the NFL Shield.
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.400
If I can ever find out, these rounded drinks are on me.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:38.720
Oh, yes.
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:45.599
Maybe in a couple houses because it's the most recognized symbol in the world, maybe other than Disney.
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:46.640
How about that?
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.440
Pretty cool.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:48.720
All self-taught.
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:53.279
My grandfather was a cartoon artist, World War I, survivor.
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:55.759
He was an artist, and it was all self-taught.
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:57.680
So it's I really appreciate your bringing that up.
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.000
Your grandfather didn't serve in World War I.
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:02.799
My grandfather served in World War World War I.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.680
My grandfather, my father, Jack, was in the Pacific in World War II.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:08.240
Yeah.
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:16.880
And my great my grandfather, Jack, was the in the original class of the Baseball Writers Association.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.200
Oh.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:17.920
Yes.
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:22.400
BBA, BBWA, Baseball Writers Association.
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:26.640
My grandfather, Jack Sr., was one of the original members.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:28.319
I have the pin somewhere.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:33.519
Was one of the original members of the Baseball Writers Association back in the early 1900s.
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:34.160
Jeez.
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:35.359
Wow.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.799
So when I tell you I'm a pirate and a Pittsburger.
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:39.599
And a Pittsburgh.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.960
So Burks, what is it about Yens?
00:30:43.359 --> 00:30:44.000
What is it about being a?
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.200
By the way, are you a Yenzer?
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:49.279
We gotta get Judge John Wayner.
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:50.799
Orion Rocker out.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:51.359
Oh yeah.
00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:51.839
Oh yeah.
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:53.200
Original.
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:55.279
You know, and that, you know, good down to the still.
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:55.920
What do you know?
00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:56.880
But what but are you?
00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:58.960
Well, I was raised here.
00:30:59.039 --> 00:30:59.839
I'm 63 years old.
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.440
But he says, he says if you're outside city limits, you're done.
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:04.480
Yeah, you're a squirrel hill.
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:05.440
I was raised Squirrel Hill.
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.079
Born and raised.
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.759
Squirrel Hill and that.
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:10.319
Yeah, going down and get some town talk bread and that.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:18.720
What is it about this great town and this baseball franchise and the people that separates it?
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:19.279
What is it?
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:22.400
And what is it about baseball, a baseball lifer like you?
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:24.079
What is it?
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.440
You can't you just love the game so much.
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:29.200
What about the game?
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:41.200
I think this to your first question, just the sports, just this this the sports person in general, like it doesn't matter where you and I fly a ton in my job.
00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:43.839
I fly all over the world in my role.
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:54.799
It doesn't matter if I'm in Phoenix, if I'm in Indianapolis, if I'm in the Santo Domingo, if I'm in Guam or South Korea, whatever it is, there's there's a steeler.
00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:57.839
There is a steeler bar somewhere.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.640
There is somebody that loves Clemente.
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.319
You see Clemente jerseys everywhere.
00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.839
I almost wore my Clemente Santurce jersey down here tonight.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:10.480
There are Clemente fans everywhere.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.400
There's we the We Are Family is it's nuts.
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:15.279
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:20.319
You get on a flight, and I wear my dad's, I wear my father's 1971 World Series ring.
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:26.960
Um I wear it like, and I'm on flights all the time, and everyone mistakes it for the Steelers.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:28.240
Because Mr.
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:34.319
Rooney, the first Steeler ring, the first world, uh, first Super Bowl that the Steelers had, Mr.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:40.880
Rooney, from what my father told me, mimicked the first ring after the 71, which blasts and company won.
00:32:41.119 --> 00:32:42.400
So there's a resemblance.
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:51.200
So I'm on an air, I'm on a flight somewhere going from Pitt to Charlotte and Charlotte or wherever, and and they see the ring and they go, is that a Stellar's ring in that?
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:52.559
I go, excuse me?
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.480
And they go, is that a Stellars ring?
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.359
You're Stellars.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:56.799
You were did you play for the Stellars?
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:58.400
I go, no, this is the Pirate Ring.
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:00.000
This is Clemente Stargil.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:01.680
Oh my god, I remember that.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:02.640
Like it was yesterday.
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:15.839
Oh my god, Clementy, that cannon, that bazooka, he had that guys, and you're a Pittsburgh, you're Harrisburg, but your Pittsburger, you are again, I know I'm a Yelzer.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:17.039
Y'all call yourself a Yelzer.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.480
You are like you are really rapidly because you're gonna be a you're like Tunch Yoken or somebody.
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:23.119
Yeah, that's gonna be a good thing.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.720
You're coming real quick.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:25.200
Yeah.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:29.440
But the the Pittsburgh brand, it's everywhere.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:33.839
And I'm not leaving out the Steelers or the 70s, 76 Tony Dorset.
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:43.599
But Pirates and Steelers, no matter where you go, and especially when they see this ring, once they determine it's not the Steelers ring, oh my god.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:48.480
Roberto and then you remember that Canon?
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:59.759
I mean, he you know, he he he could smash those line drives in that, you know, and you know, Bobby and Bobby, it's just I'm a Pittsburgh.
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:01.440
How about you talk about it?
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:03.680
I love it.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:05.440
You talk about the chief.
00:34:06.079 --> 00:34:11.599
Back in the day where we grew up, our house, you and I, was Three River Stadium.
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:13.679
We knew every nook and cranny.
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:20.079
We I would go to so many Steeler games for free because I'd sneak into the pirate front office, you know, go back behind where the Browns crew was.
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:20.320
Yep.
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:26.880
Up behind the wall, Dirk Denardo, and his son Carmen forever, and uh oh, all those guys, man.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:27.440
Mr.
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:28.400
Rooney.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:34.960
I was just gonna say that that the pirates, yeah, for those that don't know, pirates and and steelers, of course, shared that venue.
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:40.000
Yeah, and there were so often you would walk by the the tunnel, inside tunnel.
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:42.880
You of course on the left-hand side is the Pirate Club House.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:44.800
You go a little bit further, and there's the Steeler Clubhouse.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:45.280
And so Mr.
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.039
Rooney was oftentimes right in the middle.
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:47.519
Mr.
00:34:47.599 --> 00:34:49.039
Rooney and my father were very close.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:52.480
We used to go to all those banquets up in Youngstown, Ohio.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:56.079
We'd pick, I remember as kids, and my brothers will will confirm this.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:57.599
We're nine, ten years old.
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:02.079
My father and mother would pick the chief up.
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:03.039
And Mr.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:14.800
Rooney was giving a speech in 1970 on the on the Steelers upcoming season, and my dad, who was the PR director, was giving a you know a positive speech on the spring training.
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:16.559
We would pick the chief up.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:16.960
Mr.
00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:21.280
Rooney, the chief, would send my brother.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:23.519
I have a twin brother, John, great nickname too, by the way.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:25.039
And a younger brother, Dan.
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:27.039
And Art Rooney Sr.
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:37.360
would send all three of us a football every year to Mike, the next Hannes Wagner, to Dan, the next Ty Cobb, to John, the next Mickey.
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:39.199
We like literally Mr.
00:35:39.280 --> 00:35:40.000
Rooney, Mr.
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:46.800
Rooney would come into my father's office in Three Rivers, because again, as Brownie described, they share the same stadium.
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:48.800
He loved baseball, the chief.
00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.440
Oh, yeah.
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.840
And they were very close, fond memories of Mr.
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:58.480
again, he's the chief, coming in, always a stogie, always had the star.
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.239
He loved Dave Parker.
00:36:00.400 --> 00:36:04.480
I have a classic picture of Joe Green.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:05.519
I'll send it to you.
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:05.760
Please.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:06.559
I'll send it to you.
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:14.639
Joe Green and Willie Stargil at at Three River Stadium in the batting cage at Three River in the turtle.
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.840
Hot day because both guys are in cutoffs.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:21.199
You've got Joe Green holding a bat on his right shoulder.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.280
You've got Captain Willie holding the bat on his left shoulder.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:27.679
And the two of them are just like talking about.
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:35.440
Remember in the day, the Steelers, the Steelers, the Steelers would practice, these are Super Bowl teams.
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:35.679
Yes.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:40.320
Would practice on three rivers, and then the Pirates would come on later on.
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:41.440
You know, it was so cool.
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.159
Burks, we used to, you know, we used to play touch football.
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:49.199
We would play touch football on the turf while the Steelers were practicing.
00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:51.440
We go out at lunchtime, front office personnel.
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.000
The Steelers are practicing on one side of the street.
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.400
We would go out and play after Monday night football games.
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:01.119
Monday night football games, a bunch of us would go down and play touch football.
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:01.760
That's all right.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:07.199
Lambert, Rocky Blair, Joe Green, Brad Shaw, I mean you name them.
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:08.000
They were all there.
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:09.199
Chuck Knoll.
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:12.239
And there were times where they would leave Three River Stadium.
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:13.679
And remember the old Kaufman's?
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.079
Oh, yeah.
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:15.360
The old Kaufman's warehouse?
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:15.760
Yep.
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:25.760
The training facility, when they really got high tech, they had a little grass cutout underneath the overpass over here when they wanted to practice on grass.
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:30.960
The Steelers would leave three rivers, they'd all walk in pads, Lambert Holmes, all of them.
00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:32.559
They'd leave three river stadiums.
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:44.159
Walk across the parking parking lots out of Press Gate A, walk over to a little grass cutout, probably 50 yards right underneath the overpass there where the casino is.
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:44.639
Yeah.
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.800
And and they'd have a tarp on.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:52.960
When you always drive by, you try and go slow and see those little slits in the tarp and see you can see anything.
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.840
And these are Super Bowl, these are future Super Bowl teams preparing right there.
00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:01.599
And if you were lucky football, small little grass field, as you said, walking across.
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:17.840
Because as a minor league player in the 80s, I'm down there in the winter working in that old batting cage with Will with Willie Stargil, Bill Madlock, Tony LaCalva, Todd Davidson, a couple of the other minor leaguers, myself included.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:23.440
We're hitting with Stargil, to Culvey might throw a bullpenner with Rod Scurry, Jose DeLeon.
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:36.159
And then if again, if you hit at the right time, the Steelers are walking out of Prescade A in uniform, Lambert, Ham, Wagner, Noel, Franco Harris, to that little grassy cutout.
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:37.840
Did you just float in every day?
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:38.639
Yeah.
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:43.199
Because all we did was work, and they were going over there building a Super Bowl team.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:44.400
It's freaking nuts.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:45.360
It is so nuts.
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:48.400
You think about that all right now.
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:49.360
I'm glad you brought that up.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:50.719
This was in the 80s.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:54.079
Just cannot believe that we were like the lights are still on.
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:54.400
Yeah.
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:55.920
Fans are barely off.
00:38:56.079 --> 00:38:58.320
As soon as the game ended, we just go on the field.
00:38:58.400 --> 00:38:59.199
We're using the yard.
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:00.880
We're playing touch football.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:01.519
So true.
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:03.760
On the field right after he said we moved to the light.
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:04.719
Yeah.
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:05.199
Yeah.
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:06.800
Absolutely crazy.
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:07.119
Yeah.
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:12.320
As he talked about getting a ride, spring training with Willie and his Rolls-Royce in an earlier episode.
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:24.320
Mike was talking about that when Mike was in the minor leagues with the Pirates, how Stargil would pick him up and some other guys, and they go from McKeckney Field, the Major League facility, to the minor league complex at Pirates City, a few miles away.
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:29.760
And Willie would be on any given days.
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.559
To Colvey Lee Lacey, Rod Scurry, Bill Madlock, you name it.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:48.639
And then again, because I was Burger Bitz, because he knew me as a baby when we were training at Fort at Fort Myers, he'd always he threw me in those two years because there was a non-roster catcher, catching the likes of Bly Love and Candelaria, Rod Scurry.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:52.079
And he he made sure I was included because he knew me as a baby.
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:55.280
And I'm jumping in Captain Willie's Rolls Royce.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:57.599
Driving over and post.
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:02.000
Dirty, sweaty, all that clay.
00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:03.440
He didn't give a shit.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:04.719
He didn't give a shit.
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:06.559
Because he was a glue guy.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:08.800
And that's why he had all the stars.
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:12.960
And that's why, that's why the We Fit We Are Family came around.
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:21.440
And that's why everyone on it, whether it was Nikosha, Parker, Lacey, Ott, Bill Robinson, Omar, they were glue guys.
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:22.320
It was glue.
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:24.639
But they all know gravitated to Captain Willie.
00:40:24.800 --> 00:40:24.960
Exactly.
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:27.840
And you know because you're the only one here that played in the big leagues.
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:34.239
You can take, you can take all the metrics, all the analytics, all the hawkeye, and this is great stuff.
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.840
You can take all that shit, and I don't mean it in a disparaging way.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:38.639
But you need it.
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:44.719
It doesn't measure momentum, it doesn't measure heart, it doesn't measure glue.
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:46.159
It doesn't measure glue.
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:46.880
Or makeup.
00:40:47.039 --> 00:40:47.599
Or makeup.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.079
And when you got a team, again, confidence, momentum, success.
00:40:52.239 --> 00:41:04.400
When you got a team, whether it's a Belichick team, a Tanner team, a Chuck Knoll team, uh Mike Sullivan team, when you got a glue team as the leader, you get the hell out of the way.
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:05.760
Which is what Chuck Tanner did.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.000
That's what Chuck Tanner did.
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:08.400
Amen.
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:09.599
And we've been close.
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:11.920
And I say we because I'm a Pittsburgh guy.
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.320
We've been close here on the baseball side.
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:15.599
We're not there yet.
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:18.639
But when you get that, you stay the hell out of the way.
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:19.760
And the great ones know that.
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:20.880
Murtaugh knew that.
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.000
He won two in seven in the 70s.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:27.039
Leland knew that and got the hell out of the way.
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:28.960
And he came close a couple other times.
00:41:29.119 --> 00:41:30.079
He didn't do it.
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:33.760
Um God, I just I get goosebumps thinking about this shit.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.199
So what was it?
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.880
You know, talk about Willie.
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:45.119
Burgs, when you walked into that clubhouse, you just felt the presence.
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:45.679
He was there.
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:47.280
You didn't have to see him, but you felt it.
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:51.039
He had that rocking chair later in his career of sitting in the corner.
00:41:51.119 --> 00:41:52.559
He had like three empty lockers.
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:54.480
And it was like Papa telling stories.
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:58.079
People would just want to sit there and just you just want to be in his presence.
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:04.800
You know, as a as a non-player, it's just a front office employee, but you could see that the players felt that everybody wanted to be around them.
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:06.079
Right.
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:13.519
And and again, credit to Chuck Tanner for recognizing the situation and for backing off.
00:42:13.599 --> 00:42:15.280
Yeah and getting the hell out of the way.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:16.960
Again, great leaders know that.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:25.840
Great leaders know that when when your best player, when your best player, and again, I keep going back to Michael here because he's the only one who stands.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.119
He's the one that he knows.
00:42:27.199 --> 00:42:27.360
Yeah.
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.079
When you're, and I think this is our hurdlesm.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.840
When your best player, when your best player is your best makeup guy, get the hell out of the way.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.159
Yeah.
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:36.400
Yeah.
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.519
And again, but it it's not, it's easier said than done.
00:42:39.840 --> 00:42:44.079
Some some head coaches, some managers, they want to micromanage.
00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:46.480
We've all said, I've been in the minor leagues forever.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:47.840
You've been in the big leagues.
00:42:47.920 --> 00:42:49.599
You've seen this shit more than anybody.
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:51.440
Some guys don't get it.
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.119
They stay the ego gets involved.
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:54.400
Oh, like it's gotta be me.
00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:55.280
I'm the skipper.
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.000
The great ones, Sparky Anderson knew that.
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:00.239
Sparky Anderson knew they deflect.
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:01.039
Deflect.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:04.239
Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, just leave alone.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.559
Now, having said that, and we this is obvious.
00:43:09.360 --> 00:43:12.000
Sparky Anderson, Connie Mack.
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:12.960
Doesn't matter.
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.679
If you don't have a team, a good team, you can't get out of it.
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:16.239
It doesn't matter.
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.480
You can get out of the way and you're gonna lose 110 games.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.119
So you have to have obviously the players, of course.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.280
But when you do get them, I agree.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:34.639
But again, leadership is knowing it leadership is recognizing when it's there, when it's ever present, and it's obvious.
00:43:35.440 --> 00:43:36.159
Get out of the way.
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:37.280
Yeah, it ain't about me.
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:37.760
Right, right.
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:39.360
They're making my job easier.
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:39.679
Yeah.
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:41.920
Get out of the way, let them roll.
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:50.000
Every now and then, you maybe throw a table over like Leland did, but otherwise, get out of the way because they police themselves.
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:51.119
They have that.
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:58.639
Chemistry, chemistry is the hardest, is the most difficult thing in any sport to get.
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:01.360
And you can't if there's There's no guarantee.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:14.800
However, when you have chemistry in football, baseball, in whatever workplace it is, hockey, basketball, when you have it and you recognize it and not getting out of the way, shame on you.
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:24.239
When you've got that chemistry, when you've got Yadier Molina and Adam Wainwright, and you've got that, preach, get out of the way.
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:28.559
And I've been told, and I got again, we've got we've all got friends.
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:46.719
I've often been told that when LaRussa was in charge, and we know LaRussa, and I know you had your issues with Tony, but I've known Tony, I've heard Tony, when Tony would welcome a new player into the club with Wain Wright and Melina or Carpenter there, welcome to the Cardinals.
00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.440
If you're a position player, go get with Yachty, he'll tell you how we roll.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:56.320
If you're a pitcher, go get with Carp or get with Wayno, he'll tell you how we roll.
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:57.360
That's leadership.
00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:00.400
Let me tell you, I played for the Cardinals for a minute.
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:02.639
So you know who undid my locker?
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:04.800
Adam Wainwright.
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:12.480
I walk into the clubhouse with the clubby, Wayno comes over, and I felt so almost ashamed.
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.199
Because this man's got 10 years in the big leagues.
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.639
I've looked up to him forever.
00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:17.840
I've known him a little bit.
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:19.440
He goes, Welcome to the Cardinals.
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:25.920
He's just sitting there getting to know me, pulling out my jock strap and hanging it up, grabbing my cup and putting it in the cubby.
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:27.840
And I'm like, this is different.
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:30.719
And then we're playing the Pirates that day.
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:32.000
Guess who led the meeting?
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:32.639
Me.
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:35.119
Because Yachty goes, Hey, Poppy, it's yours.
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:35.679
Pop.
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:36.719
That's it.
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:37.760
That's all he said.
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:44.639
I'd never, other than playing with him, but the respect that man showed me, that whole staff sat there and looked at me.
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:44.880
Yeah.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:45.360
Take it.
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:47.039
Ten minutes later, I'm done.
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:47.679
He goes, thanks.
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:48.559
I learned something today.
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:49.039
That's it.
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:50.239
I led the next meeting.
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:51.760
I was there for a month.
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:56.880
I I was a part or I led every meeting because I have nothing to teach them.
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.679
I'm going to go play.
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:59.599
And was that not an injection of confidence?
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:02.000
Talk about Superman.
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:03.519
Talk about boom right there.
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:03.920
Yeah.
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:05.360
It's leadership.
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:07.599
Yeah, and I realized in that moment what my role was.
00:46:07.840 --> 00:46:09.039
Because I just won it bat.
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:09.280
Yeah.
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:11.119
One at bat in four weeks.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:12.400
And you've seen it.
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:21.599
And again, you know, Brownie, you have the unique experience of having, I mean, you've seen it with four Super Bowls, albeit L1, L two, L3.
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.119
You know, that's how they spell Bills now, right?
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:26.159
With four L's.
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:28.800
You know the new area code in Buffalo?
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:29.679
O44.
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:30.559
But you've seen that.
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:33.840
You know the great thing about dating a uh uh a Buffalo Bills fan?
00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:34.480
Here we go.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:38.000
I didn't ever have to worry about getting her a ring.
00:46:38.719 --> 00:46:40.800
Um but anyway, so anyway.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:50.880
No, but but yeah, I mean you you lived it, and again, I love watching NFL films and hearing you, but again, you lived it with just an iconic hum.
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.239
And correct me if I'm wrong, Marv Levy was one of my favorite humans.
00:46:54.480 --> 00:47:04.000
I mean, and I don't know the man, but I just know how how positive, how effervescent he was after every frickin' loss, and you covered them.
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:16.800
So you have the very unique perspective of having been to the almost to the mountaintop four straight years in the NFL, having covered those blackout days here in Pittsburgh.
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:19.360
I mean, firsthand, and something we haven't done.
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:19.920
Yes.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.519
And I don't know if you can if you can substantiate what we're saying.
00:47:23.920 --> 00:47:27.199
Oh, I mean, yeah, I'm listening to I mean, leader I mean you're you're on.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:28.800
I mean leadership is everything.
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:33.039
Everything doesn't guarantee your process.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:37.840
Of course, the age old the age-old debate is what comes first.
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:39.440
Winning or chemistry.
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:44.639
Because I I've always contended that if you're a bad team and you're losing team, I don't want to see good chemistry.
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:45.840
I want misery.
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:47.920
So, you know, I I don't want to go.
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:49.760
Oh, they get I hear that all the time.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:57.440
When the when over the years, the Pirates, it doesn't matter the record at the end of the year, any year they start to play well, say the first half of the season.
00:47:57.519 --> 00:47:59.119
They've got great chemistry.
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.920
We'll see how the chemistry is when they start to lose.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:04.480
But I think that's when you find out who they are, is when they lose.
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:05.039
Agreed.
00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:06.800
And the best teams evaluate.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:09.119
The best teams, the best teams and elevate.
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:10.159
The best teams are.
00:48:10.320 --> 00:48:16.800
I don't know if you guys will agree with me, the best players that I've seen over the years, especially in baseball and uh way different sport.
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.519
Baseball, you know, the different animals, apples and oranges, baseball and football.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:26.559
But the best baseball players, the best baseball people, burgs, they're like this.
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:28.320
That was Willie Stargil.
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:29.360
It was the same.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:32.079
You never knew those are the high makeup, high character guys.
00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:32.719
Always.
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:35.920
Exactly.
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:40.239
And if you have it, if you have it, you get out of the way.
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:42.719
First of all, you recognize special.
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:48.639
And again, I keep going back to Goldschmidt because I was with Goldschmidt, and you guys have covered.
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:51.599
I I got a man crush on Paul Goldschmidt.
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:56.400
And I have since the day, since the day we signed him as in Arizona.
00:48:56.559 --> 00:48:58.400
And there are NFL examples of that.
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:00.960
There are Sidney Crosby examples of that.
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:03.039
There are NBA examples of that.
00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:14.480
When you know you have that guy, when you know you have that guy, that to your point is treat the highs like lows and the lows like highs.
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:21.599
And uh preparation, preparation is never compromised, performance is always at a high level.
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:27.599
You get out of the way, you recognize you're in you're in you're you're witnessing greatness.
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:29.840
Um, there are peaks and valleys to some.
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:35.519
Again, as we touched on earlier, you know, you gotta get some guys like Barry is a great example.
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:38.639
The talent, greatest player I've ever freaking seen.
00:49:38.719 --> 00:49:39.920
I've been doing this a long time.
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:42.320
He's the greatest player I've ever seen.
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:43.039
Period.
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:47.440
Character, all right, whatever you guys want to say, he's the greatest player I've ever seen.
00:49:47.679 --> 00:49:52.800
Money guy, I don't care what he did in the postseason, that's a small sample, he's a lead.
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:59.280
But when you have a guy whose makeup and whose performance, get the hell out of the way.
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:00.000
Buster Posey.
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:00.719
Buster Posey.
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:01.280
Get the hell out of the way.
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.920
He's my man, Chris.
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:02.559
Great example.
00:50:02.719 --> 00:50:02.880
Yeah.
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:03.760
He wanted to win.
00:50:04.159 --> 00:50:09.840
By the way, speaking of bonds, we never asked you you brought him in to be the hitting coach of the bonds for a year or two.
00:50:09.920 --> 00:50:10.159
Yeah.
00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:11.039
What was that like?
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:11.920
It was incredible.
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:14.480
And how tough was it to get him to coach?
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:15.519
It was one year.
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:16.239
One year.
00:50:16.480 --> 00:50:16.880
One year.
00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:18.400
He was in and out in one year.
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.679
So we had an interview in New York at Mr.
00:50:21.840 --> 00:50:25.599
Loria's um the LaParker Meridian.
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:26.639
Mr.
00:50:26.719 --> 00:50:30.639
Loria's go-to hotel in Midtown Manhattan.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:35.280
We fly Barry in probably November, early December.
00:50:35.519 --> 00:50:48.000
It's Don Mattingley, Jeffrey Loria, David Sampson, who is the Jeffrey's stepson, team president, Michael Hill, and yours truly, the AGM.
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:49.920
We bring Bonds in.
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.559
We have Bonds audition.
00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:58.639
You know, what are your qualifications to be the Miami Marlins hitting coach for what, the 2016?
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.400
I can't believe that Barry Bonds went through this process.
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:03.360
Dude, he was unbelievable.
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:05.760
He was unbelievable.
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:07.519
I can't believe he actually had the interview.
00:51:07.679 --> 00:51:09.599
I I picture him going, you want that.
00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:11.599
He was unbelievable.
00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:17.039
He didn't know the first thing about the analytics, the computer.
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:20.239
And again, I go back with Barry.
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:32.719
Barry, Benny Di Stefano, the last left-handed catcher in the Big Lays, and yours truly, were living in an apartment right across the street here in Allegheny Center in 1988.
00:51:32.880 --> 00:51:34.480
We were all living in an apartment.
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:36.159
We all had our own apartment.
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:47.760
It was Mike Berger, Berg's, and his soon to uh his bride, Leslie, Benny and uh Benny's wife, forgive me.
00:51:47.840 --> 00:51:48.800
I forget her name, too.
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:55.519
I'll get her, I'll get her, uh, I'll get Benny's wife, and Barry and his first wife's son.
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:56.639
Son.
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:01.280
So we all had apartments in Allegheny Center.
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:05.440
We'd play racquetball over here in downtown to stay in shape.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:08.960
Bonds was the heir parent, future Hall of Famer.
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:15.360
Benny was the try-hard guy, and Berger was the guy that was just trying to grind his way up to AAA.
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:18.400
Um, so we knew one another.
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:22.159
So, fast forward to the interview in 2016.
00:52:22.719 --> 00:52:23.840
Barry knew me.
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:24.960
Barry knew me.
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:26.480
When he walked in the room, he knew me.
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:30.320
I had to kind of reacclimate him as to our history.
00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:32.480
He knew me because I was an asshole.
00:52:32.639 --> 00:52:37.280
And we played, three of us played racquetball, and I used to bury that ball in his back.
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:39.840
You know, bury that ball, we're playing cutthroat.
00:52:40.079 --> 00:52:41.840
Used to bury that ball in his back.
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:47.840
So we're doing the interview, and he had no analytics, no computer background.
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:57.920
But I said to him, once Mattingley was finished, we had the two of the best left-handed hitters in the history of the sport in that room, Mattingley and Bonds.
00:52:58.159 --> 00:52:59.440
And he revered Donnie.
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:02.480
I watched how he looked at Donnie, he revered Donnie.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:04.880
He didn't give a shit about me, respectfully, Mr.
00:53:04.960 --> 00:53:08.239
Laurie, the owner, Mike Hill, or David Sampson.
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:10.159
But he and Donnie, he revered Donnie.
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.559
So I pulled, I said, Barry, let me ask you a question.
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.840
How would you, how would you address Justin Bohr?
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:21.199
Or Justin Bohr?
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:21.599
Oh yeah.
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:22.159
Part-time.
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:24.480
Who's now working for us in the brewery?
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:27.599
How would you ad how would you adapt big human?
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:32.800
We got Justin Bohr out of a double A minor league rule phase, rule five phase.
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:42.880
He grabbed me by the sc by the scruff, pulled me up into the front of the room, and he said, Burks, he said, pretending I'm Bohr.
00:53:43.199 --> 00:53:46.559
He said, Put my hands here, put my hands here, boom this, boom that, boom that.
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.559
Inside and above the ball, hunt hard away and go the other way.
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:52.639
Brilliant.
00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:53.440
Brilliant.
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:53.920
Man.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:55.039
Brilliant.
00:53:55.280 --> 00:53:59.679
And we haven't even touched on Ozuna, Giancarlo Stanton, Christian Yellow.
00:54:00.000 --> 00:54:00.239
By the way.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:00.559
Oh, I know.
00:54:03.760 --> 00:54:03.920
D.
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:04.719
Gordon.
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:05.840
I mean Gordon.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:06.960
The list goes on and on.
00:54:07.039 --> 00:54:08.960
And I go, I'm in.
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:12.400
Mind you, he couldn't turn on a computer to his credit.
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:14.719
Instincts out the ass.
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.199
Barry Bonds had instincts out the.
00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:19.760
And correct me if I'm wrong, Bohr had a huge year that year.
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:20.400
Huge year.
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:20.559
Yeah.
00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:21.679
25.
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:28.719
We took him off, we took Justin Bohr off the Chicago Cubs double A roster in West Tennessee.
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:31.039
$5,000 minor league.
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:35.199
You talk about Clemente going in the Major League Rule 5.
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:38.800
We took Justin Bohr off a double A roster.
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:43.840
We got 100 home runs off of him, out of him, and he's now working for us in Milwaukee.
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.039
He's a tremendous guy, tremendous minor league liaison.
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:49.039
We got him for like$4,000.
00:54:49.760 --> 00:54:55.119
But but to Barry Bond's credit, he had the swing broken down.
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:56.880
He had this body type broken down.
00:54:56.960 --> 00:54:58.480
And let me give you the best Barry Bond story.
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:00.000
You already knew this in the interview, by the way.
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:00.880
Think about that.
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:01.519
No video.
00:55:01.679 --> 00:55:02.960
Can I give you a Barry Bond story?
00:55:03.039 --> 00:55:03.119
Yeah.
00:55:03.840 --> 00:55:04.320
Do we have time?
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:04.639
Please.
00:55:05.519 --> 00:55:05.599
Okay.
00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:06.880
Listen to this.
00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:07.599
Do we have time?
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:08.239
Listen to this.
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:08.960
I'm not going home.
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:10.000
Leonard Lee, do we have time?
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:11.760
Leonard Lee is our uh producer director.
00:55:11.920 --> 00:55:13.519
We ask Leonard every once in a while when he has a question.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:14.719
Absolutely.
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:16.719
Absolutely.
00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:18.559
It's a compliment.
00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:19.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:20.320
So listen to this.
00:55:20.480 --> 00:55:21.840
So we hire Bonds.
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:23.840
His one and only year with the Marlins.
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:26.159
We're at Nationals Park, Nats Park.
00:55:26.239 --> 00:55:27.119
We got a rain delay.
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:28.079
I'm the AGM.
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.840
We got a rain delay.
00:55:30.000 --> 00:55:31.679
It's going to be an all-night.
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:36.880
I come out of the I come out of Rapunzel's Tower in the GM box.
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:38.320
I go down the clubhouse.
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:39.119
Thank you for that.
00:55:39.360 --> 00:55:40.239
I get down to the clubhouse.
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:47.039
I come down to the Major League Clubhouse because we're going to be there a while.
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:50.000
I come down, I got to go to the men's room.
00:55:50.159 --> 00:55:51.519
I got to get a coffee.
00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:53.920
And I do dip.
00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:55.360
I got to dip in.
00:55:55.440 --> 00:56:03.199
And I'm walking in the coach's lounge, and Bonds is in there because he's into he's into uh uh the race, the bike racing.
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:05.199
Um Lance Armstrong.
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:06.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:06.559 --> 00:56:08.880
He's into the race, he sponsors the race team.
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:10.400
Oh, I know he's a big bike.
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:11.119
Big bike race.
00:56:11.360 --> 00:56:13.039
Yeah, but whatever that Tour de France stuff.
00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:13.679
Oh, oh yeah, yeah.
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:15.440
So he sponsors a race team.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:20.719
So I walk in to the clubhouse, coaches lounge, to use the bathroom, to throw in a dip.
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:24.719
He's watching the race, he's sponsored race team on his iPad.
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:28.400
And he sees me, and he goes, Hey Berggs, you got a dip?
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:29.599
And I go, Yeah.
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:34.320
So I flip him a dip, he puts one in, and I go, Okay, I got him.
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:36.480
Not getting, I go back to 86 with him.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:36.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:37.920
So I got him.
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:39.280
And we're gonna be here a while.
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:42.800
I said, Hey Bear, turn the shit off.
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:44.320
That's the way I am.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:46.239
I said, turn that computer off.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:48.000
And he goes, turn the shit off.
00:56:48.079 --> 00:56:49.599
I gotta ask you an important question.
00:56:49.840 --> 00:56:51.360
He says, Yeah, what do you got?
00:56:51.599 --> 00:56:52.800
Puts a dip in.
00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:59.519
I go, what's the most because to me, and again, I stand by my client, it's the greatest player I've ever seen.
00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:01.519
Suspicions aside.
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:07.199
I said, What's the greatest piece of hitting advice you've ever received?
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.119
Puts a dip in, flips me the Copenhagen can.
00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:12.800
He said, Oh, it's easy.
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:17.280
He said, I was Arizona State, I punched out four times.
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:21.599
My father was in watching me, Barry Bonds, who's dad, Bobby.
00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:27.920
Who was a tremendous player, played for a hundred teams, tremendous five-tool guy.
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:30.800
He said, My dad's watching me play, a punch out four times.
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:32.880
My dad's got a place here in Scottsdale.
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:35.519
After the game, we go back to my dad's place.
00:57:35.760 --> 00:57:39.840
My dad proceeds to ream me a new rear end.
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:41.599
He said, What the hell?
00:57:41.760 --> 00:57:42.800
What the F.
00:57:43.599 --> 00:57:47.679
He puts me in the batting cage in his backyard.
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:50.800
I'm standing there at home plate with bat in hand.
00:57:51.119 --> 00:57:54.639
Dad's behind the old jugs machine with the two wheels.
00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:56.639
He's got to crank the 1010.
00:57:56.880 --> 00:57:59.920
10 dial, 10 dial, it's going 100 miles an hour.
00:58:00.159 --> 00:58:12.800
Before he shoots a ball through the wheels, he said, he walks behind the machine, takes the bat out of my hand, puts my left-handed glove in his hand, and he said, All right, listen here, dumbass.
00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:14.639
He said, I'm gonna shoot you balls.
00:58:14.800 --> 00:58:20.000
I want you to pretend you're hitting, but I want you to take your take your pre-swing movement.
00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:21.519
I want you to catch the ball.
00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.719
Instead of catching the ball with your barrel, I want you to catch it with your glove.
00:58:25.039 --> 00:58:44.800
He goes back behind the machine, shoots a hundred-bile hour fastballs out of that machine, boom, he catches with his glove, resets, boom, catches with his glove, resets, does it about 10 times, comes back, takes the glove out of my hand, puts that bat in my hand, and now, all right, now catch the goddarn ball with the barrel of your bat.
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:46.639
Light bulb moment.
00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:48.559
Light bulb moment.
00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:52.000
So instead of catching 100 miles an hour, and again, he went all through the pre-swing.
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:53.360
We all know Bond's swing.
00:58:53.840 --> 00:58:57.440
That little that little coil, that little cock, boom, there it is.
00:58:57.599 --> 00:59:00.880
Instead of catching it with his barrel, he caught it with his glove.
00:59:01.199 --> 00:59:02.559
Now catch it with your barrel.
00:59:02.719 --> 00:59:05.920
He said, Berggs, he said, light bulb moment.
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:14.960
He said, there ain't no son of a bitch that ever threw a Percival, you name it, that threw a fastball by me the rest of my frickin' career.
00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:16.480
Holy smoke.
00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:19.760
And he imparted that on Giancarlo Stanton.
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:23.039
Stanton hit like MVP year, Stanton hit like 53.
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:26.559
Ozuda hit about 37 that year and hit 340.
00:59:26.800 --> 00:59:29.039
That year in my that last only year in Miami.
00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:37.280
Yelich, I mean, I go on a Donny Mattingley predicted Yellich was gonna hit 30 the next year after a 17 home run season.
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:40.639
I bring Yelich to Milwaukee with me because Jeter fired me.
00:59:41.119 --> 00:59:46.480
I told Matt Arnold, my new GM, hey, Don Mattingly told me Yelich was gonna hit 30.
00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:48.719
You gotta get Yelich, and we traded for him.
00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:50.480
Yelich hit 44.
00:59:51.519 --> 01:00:03.679
Because the Mattingleys, Bonds, the Ichiro's, we employed at one time in Miami, we employed the three greatest left-handed hitters in the history of our sport.
01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:06.559
And I was in, I was flying with them in my role.
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:07.760
I was in every meeting.
01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:11.920
Ichiro, Don Mattingley, Barry Bonds.
01:00:12.159 --> 01:00:12.800
And I told Mr.
01:00:12.960 --> 01:00:13.599
Lawyer that.
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:15.039
He goes, What are you talking about?
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:19.599
I said, Ichiro, Mattingley, and Bonds.
01:00:19.920 --> 01:00:22.079
Can we get Donnie to No, he can't get Donnie.
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:23.679
He's fucking managing the team.
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:27.039
So again, it's just I'm off on a team.
01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:28.880
But Bonds only lasted one year.
01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:29.360
One year.
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:32.159
But so you're saying he was a great hitting coach, dude, right?
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:33.440
He impacted D.
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:33.920
Gordon.
01:00:34.159 --> 01:00:34.960
Did we just get tired of it?
01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:35.920
He didn't want to do it anymore.
01:00:36.079 --> 01:00:36.400
No.
01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:37.280
No.
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:39.360
Um I can't speak for him on that.
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:41.119
It was more nine to five.
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:50.880
Donnie had some issues because you know that the hitting coach's job in Major League Baseball today, in the present form, is the most it's it's surpassed that of a pitching coach.
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:54.400
Psychologist is hours and hours.
01:00:55.119 --> 01:00:59.679
It's who wants flips at noon, who wants flips at one, who wants that second round of flips.
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:04.000
You know, it's it's the Frank Manicino's, Andy Haynes, tenacious.
01:01:04.239 --> 01:01:06.480
Tenacious on on time available.
01:01:06.719 --> 01:01:08.800
I and I'm using a pirate perspective here.
01:01:09.199 --> 01:01:13.519
You have to avail yourself literally 13 Bonzi Bonzi ain't gonna do that.
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:14.719
No, no, dude.
01:01:14.880 --> 01:01:21.119
He's in at 3 o'clock, 20 minutes after the game, he's got a Louis Vuitton over his back, over his shoulder, he's gone.
01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:22.719
Yeah, but impact.
01:01:23.119 --> 01:01:31.519
And so we had to fire him in Mattingley's office at the end of the year, Michael Hill, Don Mattingley, and yours truly.
01:01:32.000 --> 01:01:33.119
What was that like?
01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:36.719
Well, firing bonds after one year as head coach.
01:01:36.960 --> 01:01:38.239
Yeah, and he did he care?
01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:39.280
Was he a big deal?
01:01:39.519 --> 01:01:40.800
He was cool, he was really cool.
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:44.559
He was cool because he heard it from Mattingley.
01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:50.639
And to Mattingley's credit, Donnie had to drop the boom because again, there just wasn't enough time spent.
01:01:50.880 --> 01:01:52.639
The impact was measurable.
01:01:53.119 --> 01:02:08.079
Again, with Prado, with Yelich, with but again, these these hitters at that in this day and age, they're they've they've surpr they surplanted pitchers in in just they need the guidance, they need the love, they need the yeah, you know, whatever it is.
01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:08.880
Yeah, they're not gonna do that.
01:02:08.960 --> 01:02:09.519
And I get it, yeah.
01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:10.000
I get it.
01:02:10.079 --> 01:02:11.519
They need the nipple, the nipple.
01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:12.960
Barry's not gonna do that.
01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:15.360
And Barry would Barry, he was matter of fact.
01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:17.519
Yeah, it was very matter-of-fact.
01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:18.559
It's nine to five.
01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:20.079
I'm gonna give you everything I got.
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:21.760
Would you say that?
01:02:21.920 --> 01:02:23.599
I mean, you've been around enough staffs.
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:24.480
You need both.
01:02:24.639 --> 01:02:25.199
Oh, absolutely.
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:30.800
You need the guy that will just sit there on the couch, throw the dip in, and tell you how it is.
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:32.880
Yeah, and then you also need the guy that will show up at 12.
01:02:32.960 --> 01:02:34.320
Yeah, Andy Haynes of the Ward.
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:40.559
You need you need both in today's game because some guys need babysitting, some guys need a punch in the face.
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:41.360
Exactly.
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:45.280
You need the Don Kelly, yeah, the Don Kelly grind.
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:45.840
Yep.
01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.159
And again, I mean, I love Donnie.
01:02:48.320 --> 01:02:49.360
You guys work with Donnie.
01:02:49.440 --> 01:02:51.920
I've never pulled you guys in how you view Don.
01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:52.559
Yeah.
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:57.760
Don Kelly, their bench coat, Pittsburgh's bench, has a grind element.
01:02:58.480 --> 01:02:59.199
Second to none.
01:02:59.440 --> 01:02:59.920
Second to thank.
01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:00.320
Thank you.
01:03:00.559 --> 01:03:01.280
Second to be measurable.
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:04.480
So you need that grind element, and there's intellect there too, don't get me wrong.
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:04.880
Yes.
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:08.480
And then you have the cachet of a freaking berry bonds.
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:09.920
It's not just cachet.
01:03:10.079 --> 01:03:13.679
It's not just cachet, it's like real shit.
01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:18.400
Like you you you want to be good, you listen to me, and I'm gonna tell you once.
01:03:18.480 --> 01:03:21.519
And if you don't come to me on my time, we're out.
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:21.840
Yeah.
01:03:22.480 --> 01:03:23.119
Okay, cool.
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:24.000
Somehow you gotta do that.
01:03:24.159 --> 01:03:26.400
I'm gonna give you both Chili Davis.
01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:27.840
I've I don't know Chili.
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:28.960
I've heard that about Chili.
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:30.000
He has said that about him.
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:30.559
How great he is.
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.280
I've heard that about Chili.
01:03:31.840 --> 01:03:35.599
He would call me and be like, hey man, I want to talk about Brandon Moss.
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:37.280
I'm like, I don't know Brandon Moss.
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:40.320
And we talk for two hours on the phone while I'm heading off the team.
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:43.920
I'm not in his organization, I'm not with him.
01:03:44.079 --> 01:03:46.800
He's in Oakland, I'm a pirate, and we're talking.
01:03:46.880 --> 01:03:50.400
I may have been a uh Rocky at the time, but that's how much he loves the game.
01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:52.800
And you talk about blending the two.
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:57.280
He could sit on the couch talk hitting for an hour, he can go to the cage for an hour, but I'll never forget.
01:03:57.360 --> 01:04:01.760
I'm in Paw Tucket, and he flips open a notebook because I'm like, I'm lost.
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:06.239
And he goes, Well, remember back here in May 15th?
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:09.679
Yeah, two homer game, you had this double blah blah.
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:10.559
We were doing this.
01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:12.320
And I was like, What?
01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:16.400
And we just went right to it, and then he added a piece, and I started to go.
01:04:16.800 --> 01:04:20.159
But right, you think about a guy, I mean, he's one of the best switchingers of all time.
01:04:21.119 --> 01:04:21.679
I'm a nobody.
01:04:22.559 --> 01:04:27.280
Yeah, and he's got me, but also like he took me even further, and we became guys that we confide in.
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:27.519
Yeah.
01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:28.800
And he made me love the game even more.
01:04:28.960 --> 01:04:30.320
Well, he's got that and the work ethic.
01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:31.519
That combo.
01:04:31.760 --> 01:04:32.400
You don't have that combo.
01:04:32.480 --> 01:04:32.800
Yeah, for example.
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:33.760
That's why he's not in the game.
01:04:33.840 --> 01:04:34.159
Yeah.
01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:35.440
Because he knows his value.
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:37.119
I think it took a while, but he knows his value.
01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.519
I'm I'm I've I've all I don't know Chili.
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:42.719
I've heard that because again, we we have common friends.
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:44.559
I've always heard that about Chili.
01:04:44.639 --> 01:04:45.280
That's really cool.
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:52.480
Like, I learned something, like you could put an exclamation point based on personal experience on what I've heard of Chili.
01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:53.280
That's pretty cool.
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:53.599
Yeah.
01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:55.920
And those are different, those are difference makers.
01:04:56.079 --> 01:05:00.400
Whatever the sport, whatever the industry, those are and and Barry was that guy.
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:06.880
I mean, it's no coincidence that in his one year, I mean, again, Stanton, it's it's Ozuna.
01:05:07.199 --> 01:05:13.679
For me, Ozuna was the MVP of the Marlins that year, even though he hit 36 and Big G hit 52.
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:22.079
To me, Ozuna hit more impactful home runs, eighth, ninth inning off of impact velocity, um, and hit 300.
01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:23.599
Again, pick your poison.
01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:25.440
They were they're both great choices.
01:05:25.599 --> 01:05:29.039
And then the fact that Yellich and Mattingley called it.
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:37.360
I'm sitting with Donnie Mattingley at a batting cage in Miami, last series of the year, right before Jeter's getting ready to frickin' fire me.
01:05:37.840 --> 01:05:38.880
Unbeknownst to me.
01:05:39.039 --> 01:05:46.719
And Donnie looks at me and he says, Berggs, I'm telling you, as Yelich is taking BP, he said, the son of a bitch is gonna hit 30 next year.
01:05:46.960 --> 01:05:48.719
He didn't say that, but I'm embellished.
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:50.719
I go, because Donnie didn't cuss.
01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:52.159
And uh I said, Really?
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:53.039
And he goes, Yeah.
01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:54.960
So lo and behold, I get fired.
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:58.639
Jeter fires me and a Jack McKeon and Andre Dawson.
01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:00.960
I'm not putting my On their category.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:04.320
He fires a bunch of us, smokes a bunch of us like three weeks later.
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:07.360
And now I got to audition for the next job.
01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:09.119
The Brewers are interested in me.
01:06:09.199 --> 01:06:10.800
Matt Arnold's a GM.
01:06:11.119 --> 01:06:13.280
Fortunately, I had interviewed Arnie.
01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:14.159
I got a relationship.
01:06:14.400 --> 01:06:16.320
I go, hey, dude, listen.
01:06:17.119 --> 01:06:21.360
Don Mattingly told me that Yelich, you might want to get him.
01:06:21.519 --> 01:06:23.840
He's going to hit 30 next year.
01:06:24.159 --> 01:06:28.639
Lewis Brinson, there were three other guys that didn't pan out.
01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:37.440
The Brewers wind up getting Yelich in that blockbuster trade in January and had um Lorenzo Kane.
01:06:37.840 --> 01:06:39.440
I told him he's gonna hit 30.
01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:42.719
I got to apologize because he wasn't hitting 44.
01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:45.760
Right, church wrong, too.
01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:51.760
So uh just real real quick, what do you think of Derek Jeter?
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:58.559
Still one of my favorite players of all time.
01:06:59.039 --> 01:07:01.039
It's a 90 instinct player.
01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:08.079
I put him in the in the in the grouping of Peyton Manning, Jason Kidd, uh our um NBA.
01:07:08.159 --> 01:07:10.000
Um Jason Kidd?
01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:10.159
Yeah.
01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:12.400
Jason Kidd's a really good player.
01:07:12.480 --> 01:07:12.639
Yeah.
01:07:12.960 --> 01:07:20.960
I put him in that in that grouping of Irving, you think ultra-instinctive players, Hall of Fame player, selfishly.
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:22.639
Why'd you hell'd you fire me?
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.599
But he fired a bunch of people.
01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:24.400
I could have helped you.
01:07:24.559 --> 01:07:25.519
But he fired a bunch of people, right?
01:07:26.159 --> 01:07:26.320
Yeah.
01:07:26.880 --> 01:07:29.679
He just he wasn't equipped to do what he did.
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:30.000
Yeah.
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:35.760
As an administrator, I can tell you, and again, little dig, I don't give a shit.
01:07:35.920 --> 01:07:38.960
Um Little Dig, he didn't retire.
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:40.639
I know he got smoked.
01:07:40.800 --> 01:07:43.199
Um, I love his Capital One commercials.
01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:45.039
Yeah, he's a Yankee for life.
01:07:45.280 --> 01:07:48.480
I have profound respect for him as a player.
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:49.920
Lousy administrator.
01:07:50.159 --> 01:07:52.159
Well, that's that's yeah, it's a different role.
01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:53.119
That's exactly right.
01:07:53.440 --> 01:07:54.000
It's a different role.
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:54.719
I love the guys.
01:07:55.199 --> 01:08:02.320
I do not, I don't do not diminish what he what he had to do, in his opinion, as an administrator with the Marlins.
01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:06.960
I do not in any way, shape, or form let it affect how much I revere him.
01:08:07.119 --> 01:08:09.280
Again, I put him in the Peyton Manning, Dan Marino.
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.280
Just because you're a great player doesn't mean you can be a great GM or a great manager that many, many times.
01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:13.599
Exactly.
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:15.039
Many, many times.
01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:15.280
Yeah.
01:08:15.360 --> 01:08:16.800
It's a whole different ball game.
01:08:17.039 --> 01:08:17.680
My brother.
01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:18.399
Wow.
01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:19.439
Burger Bitch.
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:20.640
Are we over alright?
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:22.560
Berg's Louise.
01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:24.239
What an absolute treat.
01:08:24.640 --> 01:08:25.279
Imagine in my mind.
01:08:25.520 --> 01:08:28.800
Great Fort Mike Berger on Hold My Cutter.
01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:33.840
He said, he fact Derek Jeter, one thing about Jeter, Jeter said his favorite podcast is Hold My Cutter.
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:35.199
So I love that about Jeter.
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:35.680
I do.
01:08:35.760 --> 01:08:35.920
So