2036: The Devil Made Me Do it Case.

WEBVTT
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Hello, Hillbilly Nation. How the heck are you? I'm not
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going to talk a whole lot today. We'll get right
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into it. First, we're going to play the two primals
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from our two sponsors, Tumblr Therapy and Thanks Sarah. And
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since those primals play, we are going to roll right
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into this episode. And this episode is called The Devil
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Made Me Do It Case. Jerry and Tracy take a
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look at one of the most intriguing paranormal stories ever.
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It is the Demon Murder Cave in Connecticut in 1981.
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They are joined by Deanna Marie from Twisted Philly and
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Jeremy Collins from the podcast we listen to. Join them
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for a discussion of paranormal experiences and enjoy this show.
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Y'all take care of each other.
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Bye-bye.
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I'm afraid I have some bad news. Oh, no.
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What is it, Doc?
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You have Tumblr Deficiency Syndrome!
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Is it serious?
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Extremely serious. You're walking around with a plain cup!
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A plain cup?
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Yes. No personality. No sparkle. No attitude. Frankly, it's embarrassing.
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Doctor, is there a cure?
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There's only one thing I can recommend. Tumblr Therapy.
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That's right.
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At Tumblr Therapy, we have hundreds of designs to choose from,
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plus custom artwork to make a Tumblr that's as unique
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as you are. Need one for the kids? We've got
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children's Tumblrs. Want a 20-ounce Tumblr? We've got them with
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handles and without handles. Need something bigger? How about a
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30-ounce or a 40-ounce Tumblr?
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Wait.
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You mean I can actually have my favorite picture put
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on a Tumblr?
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Absolutely.
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Have a favorite family picture, your pet, your truck, your grandkids,
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your favorite character, or maybe a picture of your ex
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that you'd like to keep permanently trapped on a Tumblr.
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Uh, maybe leave that last one out.
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Fair enough.
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Just contact Rebecca about custom artwork or to have your
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favorite picture turned into a one-of-a-kind Tumblr.
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And remember, hydration is important.
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So I should drink more water?
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Yes.
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From a Tumblr therapy Tumblr?
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Now you're thinking like a professional.
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So stop living with plain cup syndrome. Get the Tumblr
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that matches your personality, your style, your obsession, or whatever
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your family says you're obsessed with. Visit the Tumblr therapy
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Facebook page to see our designs and place your order.
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Tumblr therapy, because ordinary cups are just boring.
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Doctor.
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Doctor.
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I think I need another tumbler.
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That's not a problem.
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I have 12 already.
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Perfectly normal.
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Tumbler therapy.
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Drink it. Love it. Make it yours.
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Every day, millions of caregivers are caring for the people
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they love, but too often, they're doing it without the information, support,
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or resources that they need. That's why I created Think Sarah,
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a place dedicated to caregiver education, awareness, advocacy, and support.
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From elder care and aging to difficult conversations and helpful resources,
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Think Sarah is here to help caregivers feel a little
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more prepared and a lot less alone. Please check out
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Think Sarah on YouTube and Rumble and find much more
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information on www.thinksarah.com. That's www.thinksarah.com. S-A-R-A-H dot com. Because caregivers
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are the salt of the earth, providing immeasurable blessings and
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lasting impacts to those they love. Think Sarah strives to
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be the support network that caregivers need.
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This podcast is part of the Darkness Collective.
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Visit darkness.org to discover more shows like this one.
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The darkness awaits.
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It's about to be a fun ride. Follow along, watch
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as we slide. Paranormal just hit the lights. Goosebumps all
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through the night. Mix in just a little bit of twang.
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That girl sure can't do a thing. Together, hillbillies go insane.
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Life's so hard, it'll hurt your brain. Podcast, you won't
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ever change. These two here, they got the recipe. Sit
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on back and listen in to some of our darkest mysteries.
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Welcome to Hillbilly Horror Stories.
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And now here's.
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Your host, Hi, I'm Dena Marie, the host of the
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Twisted Philly Podcast. And I've got a question for you.
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Do you love podcasts? Because I sure do. And that's
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why the podcast community, Podcast We Listen To, is hosting
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their very first podcast convention for listeners. It's called Podern Love.
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The Potter and Love Convention is for listeners by listeners.
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It's for all of us, and it includes podcasts from
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every genre you could imagine, including comedy, movies and TV,
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pop culture, paranormal, history, health and fitness, true crime, and
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so many more. Our first convention is August 10th, 11th,
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and 12th, 2018, in one of the coolest cities in
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the country, New Orleans, Louisiana. And it's being held at
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the Intercontinental Hotel, which is a premier French Quarter hotel.
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The location is amazing. And the room rate can't be
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beat either. It's only $ 129 a night. Tickets are on
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sale on the website at www.podern.love. That's www.p-o-d-e-r-n dot l-o-v-e.
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There are over 40 independent podcasts already lined up to
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present at Potter & Love, and we'll be adding more
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before the convention. Plus, featured podcasters have discount codes, so
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you can get a discount on your tickets. Be sure
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to follow Potter & Love on Twitter and Facebook for
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the latest convention updates, news, information about new shows that
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are joining, and links to a dedicated website just for
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Potter & Love attendees to book their hotel room. We
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can't wait to see you this August in New Orleans.
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Welcome everybody to episode 95 of Hillbilly Horror Stories. I
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am Jerry and I'm joined by my beautiful wife, Tracy.
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Thank you, sweetie.
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Hi, everybody.
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Hope you're all having a great weekend so far.
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Yep, we are recording this one a little bit early
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because we will be at the Abbey Road on the
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River Beatles Festival. So we're going to record this one
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on Saturday night and set it. So you'll still get
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it at the regular time, so you won't know any different.
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But we may be short. If you leave a review
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on Sunday, we won't get that until next week.
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True.
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So that's the only thing that really affects that and Patreon.
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So let's jump on the reviews because we have an
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awesome show for you. And it's going to be a
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long show. So it would be a good thing if
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you're sitting back after the holiday with nothing going on
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and a full stomach from a cookout.
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There you go.
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First and foremost, always, especially this weekend, we want to
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give a big thank you to all of our military
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and civil servants all over the world, no matter which
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country you represent.
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Amen to that. We love you guys. We support you
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so much, and we pray for you every day. And
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I just want to say God bless you for keeping
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us safe.
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Obviously, this in the United States is Memorial Day, so
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this is the day where everybody has cookouts and stuff,
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but let's not forget the real reason that the holiday exists.
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It's to pay tribute to those who lost their lives
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fighting for this country.
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Yes, amen. Let's not forget that, and I know you
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guys don't.
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It's also this week, well, we like to talk about
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our civil servants as well. It's EMS week, which is
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the Emergency Medical Service, ambulances and stuff here in the U.S.
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I'm not sure if it's that way all over the
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world or not, but regardless if it is or it isn't,
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We celebrate you guys every week.
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Absolutely. You guys work your butts off out there, and
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we don't know what we'd do without you.
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So before we get into reviews and stuff, there's not
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that many. I do want to talk about the National
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Suicide Prevention Hotline. That's always going to be at the
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front of the show from this point on. So if
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you're in the United States, 1-800-273-8255. And remember, if you
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need to talk to somebody... grab somebody. It doesn't matter
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if it's us. It doesn't matter if it's somebody from
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this hotline. It doesn't matter if it's a friend on
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Facebook or Twitter. Trust me, there are more people out
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there willing to talk to you if you just give
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them an opportunity to talk to you. Then you realize.
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Correct. Please feel free to reach out to us.
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Absolutely. And as far as this show, this show is
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going to be, like I said, a long one because
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we've got a cool story that's got a bunch of
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different facets. If you like rabbit holes, this is going
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to be the story I always like to tell you
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guys occasionally how many pages of notes we have. This
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one had 33 pages of notes, which is by far
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the most we've ever had.
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That's a lot.
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About three or four pages, but that's still... Yeah, that's great.
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There's only been a couple even get past 25, and
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this one made it almost to 35. Yeah. And it
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could have been 35 if I had it wrote bigger.
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We hope you guys enjoy it.
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At the end of the show, we have an hour-long
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roundtable discussion. We did the one with.
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Scared's host, Phil Holmes, and with Realm of the Supernatural,
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Lee Solway on, what was it, the Loch Ness Monster?
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Yes, Nessie.
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And a lot of people liked that one. And we
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kind of do a similar, it's not really talking about
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the same subject, but we've got Dina Marie from Twisted Filly.
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And we've got Jeremy Collins from Podcasts We Listen To.
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They're also the people behind the Potter and Love Podcast Festival.
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And so they're going to come on, and this is
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a cool discussion. We spent a few minutes talking about
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their shows because they've got, you know, Twisted Filly, Podcasts
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We Listen To, and they do a show together called
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Educating Jeremy, which is pretty funny. So we talk about
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that a little bit, but we spend a majority of
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the time talking about Jeremy's and Dina's paranormal experiences they've had.
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And then they both talk about some of the stuff
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that happened at Waverly because we were all on the
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same tour.
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Yeah, that's pretty cool.
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Yeah, it's a really cool... It could be a show
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all of its own if we released it that way.
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And I thought about doing that, but instead I figured
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I'd just give you an extra long show since it's
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Memorial Day weekend here. So let's get into the reviews
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real quick. Doster Haven. TD Brown 316. Power Lineman 76.
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Wrong Way Right. I like that name. Samson 123. Thank
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you guys so much for your reviews.
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Thank you guys so much. They were great. We appreciate
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it so, so much.
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And as always, that means more to us than you realize.
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Oh, yeah.
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Absolutely.
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We had one new Patreon subscriber this week. That's Daniel Hunsucker.
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Thank you, Daniel.
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And Daniel's going to jump right on board, too, because
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he's got a story that he'll have for the very...
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first patron episode next month.
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Well, very cool. I can't wait to hear that.
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So yeah, he was all in it. Let's go ahead
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and jump on and let's do a show too. Oh, well, good.
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Well, we look forward to that. Thank you guys. We
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appreciate y'all so much.
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All right, let's jump into this. This story takes place
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in Brookfield, Connecticut. It's a sleepy little quiet town, about 13,000 people.
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On February 16th at 6.30 p.m. in 1981, This town
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had something happen that had never happened in its 193-year existence.
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Whoa.
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A murder.
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What?
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193 years they had never had a murder.
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Never a murder. Well, that is amazing.
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Well, and it's not just a murder.
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Oh, man.
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Such a typical murder. It's a gruesome, bloody attack.
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Well, yay.
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And as if this murder was strange enough for the
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town of Brookfields, The reason for the murder may have
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been even stranger. The murderer in this case, Arnie Cheyenne Johnson,
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was possessed by a demon. His pending trial would also
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be a first. It was actually the first in the U.S.
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A trial where the defense was the devil made me
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do it.
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That's pretty wild.
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So we got a lot of stuff on tap for you.
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So have I piqued your interest yet?
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Yeah. So since they never had anything to deal with
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like that in their town, they probably didn't know, first off,
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how to deal with a murder period. And now they've
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got to do it because the devil made them do it.
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So they're in for quite a challenge.
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This story's got so many facets that I wasn't really
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sure exactly where I wanted to start at. You've got
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a murder in a town that hadn't had one in
253
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almost 200 years. You had a trial that was the
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first of its kind. where someone tried to use demonic
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possession as a defense, you had the possession of the
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murderer himself. So I decided where we were going to
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start is where it all began, which doesn't even involve
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any of the topics we've already mentioned.
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Wow.
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This is going to be exciting.
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Now, we've done lots of stories that involved hauntings, and
262
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we've done some that involved possession, right?
263
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Yes.
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The events that led to the possession of Cheyenne Johnson,
265
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and the reason I'm going to refer to him as
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Cheyenne the rest of the way, because his name was
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00:14:09.669 --> 00:14:12.210
Arnie Cheyenne and his friends called him Cheyenne. So that's
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00:14:12.610 --> 00:14:14.409
what we're going to refer to him as Cheyenne Johnson.
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00:14:15.509 --> 00:14:18.879
But the events that led to the possession of Cheyenne
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Johnson and the murder of Alan Bono and the subsequent
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00:14:22.299 --> 00:14:25.379
trial sounds more like the normal stories that we do
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00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.139
on this show. And what makes this whole story incredible
273
00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:31.700
is that it doesn't stop with the initial story that
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we're going to tell. Most people will agree that the
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aftermath of this initial story is more fascinating than what
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00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:41.950
we're going to start with. Okay. But you've got to
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go there before you can go to the rest. So
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00:14:44.250 --> 00:14:47.789
here we go. In 1980, the Glatzel family moved into
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a peaceful little town of Brookfield, Connecticut. It was Carl Sr.,
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00:14:52.110 --> 00:14:57.090
the dad, Judy, the mom, Debbie, who was the oldest daughter,
281
00:14:58.549 --> 00:15:02.129
Carl Jr., not to be confused with a restaurant. You're
282
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like the Hardys.
283
00:15:03.460 --> 00:15:06.480
I know, babe. I got you.
284
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Okay.
285
00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:11.669
And David, who was 11 years old. David's going to
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00:15:11.690 --> 00:15:15.330
be the main focal point of this part of the story. Now,
287
00:15:15.370 --> 00:15:18.330
shortly after moving in, a series of bizarre occurrences started happening,
288
00:15:19.169 --> 00:15:24.169
and this would mark the beginning of disaster, really, that's
289
00:15:24.230 --> 00:15:26.149
about to take place in this whole family's lives.
290
00:15:26.230 --> 00:15:26.730
Oh, man.
291
00:15:27.929 --> 00:15:29.070
I already feel bad for him.
292
00:15:29.909 --> 00:15:31.509
You're going to feel worse because it starts off with
293
00:15:31.529 --> 00:15:32.570
there's a waterbed in the house.
294
00:15:34.100 --> 00:15:37.080
Oh, you know, like, I loved our waterbed. It was fun.
295
00:15:38.419 --> 00:15:39.980
You couldn't wait for me to get rid of that thing.
296
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.120
Well, at first it was fun.
297
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Matter of fact, you made me get rid of it. Anyway,
298
00:15:47.610 --> 00:15:49.570
there was a waterbed in the master bedroom that was
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left there by the previous tenants. And everybody kind of,
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00:15:53.029 --> 00:15:55.529
you know, took turns laying on it and laughing about
301
00:15:55.570 --> 00:15:58.149
how weird it felt and all that stuff. David, though,
302
00:15:58.389 --> 00:16:01.700
he wouldn't even try it. He was a little overweight.
303
00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:06.830
He was really self-conscious. He had black hair. And he
304
00:16:06.870 --> 00:16:08.470
just kind of tried to stay away from things that
305
00:16:08.509 --> 00:16:10.929
would make him feel queasy. That was kind of like
306
00:16:10.950 --> 00:16:11.889
a little thing in the head. Oh, yeah, make his
307
00:16:11.909 --> 00:16:13.789
stomach hurt. So he figured that might, you know, be
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00:16:13.809 --> 00:16:14.009
the case.
309
00:16:14.029 --> 00:16:14.789
Might do it, yeah.
310
00:16:15.090 --> 00:16:17.529
Now, later that day, though, he said that something pushed
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00:16:17.570 --> 00:16:19.659
him onto the bed as he was walking past it.
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00:16:21.090 --> 00:16:22.549
He looked up and he said he saw an old
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00:16:22.590 --> 00:16:26.289
man in a torn plaid shirt and blue jeans. Said
314
00:16:26.330 --> 00:16:29.570
he had very coarse skin. And he said that the
315
00:16:29.629 --> 00:16:33.210
man pointed at him and said, beware. almost kind of
316
00:16:33.269 --> 00:16:36.629
growled beware before pushing him on the bed.
317
00:16:38.570 --> 00:16:41.009
Wow, that's pretty creepy.
318
00:16:41.529 --> 00:16:42.840
Now, that's a strange story in itself.
319
00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:43.500
Well, yeah.
320
00:16:43.659 --> 00:16:45.779
And the Glatzels, they just kind of played it off as,
321
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you know, overactive imagination.
322
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.620
So you think that ghost or whatever it was knew
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00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:51.759
he didn't want to get on that bed?
324
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:52.600
I would think so.
325
00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:54.320
And he just made him get on that bed?
326
00:16:54.340 --> 00:16:55.039
I would say so.
327
00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:57.320
So he quit being a puss and get on that bed?
328
00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:59.940
I don't know if that was the mentality of the
329
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.180
said ghost or entity. That night, David saw this man again.
330
00:17:05.009 --> 00:17:07.950
This time, though, he said his skin was burned and black.
331
00:17:08.150 --> 00:17:08.910
Oh, my.
332
00:17:09.509 --> 00:17:13.549
And he was barefoot this time. And David said he
333
00:17:13.789 --> 00:17:17.569
had no feet. He had more like hooves like a deer.
334
00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:19.069
Oh, gosh, darn.
335
00:17:19.569 --> 00:17:22.009
So the family, you know, this wasn't like bedtime. So
336
00:17:22.029 --> 00:17:26.039
the family is talking about this downstairs at the kitchen table.
337
00:17:27.029 --> 00:17:30.549
And shortly after this second visit, I guess he decided
338
00:17:30.829 --> 00:17:33.869
I need to tell somebody what's going on. Now, David
339
00:17:33.890 --> 00:17:36.130
had always been an honest kid, and he wasn't into
340
00:17:36.230 --> 00:17:39.549
any kind of horror or scary subjects or anything like that.
341
00:17:39.609 --> 00:17:41.789
So this definitely was out of character for him to
342
00:17:41.890 --> 00:17:46.329
even bring up something like this. David's situation would get
343
00:17:46.369 --> 00:17:49.509
progressively worse. He would wake up all hours of the
344
00:17:49.589 --> 00:17:54.410
night crying uncontrollably. His claim is that the old man
345
00:17:54.450 --> 00:17:56.769
was visiting him in his sleep, and that he had
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00:17:56.890 --> 00:18:03.009
black eyes, features more like an animal than a human person, sharp,
347
00:18:03.069 --> 00:18:04.990
jagged teeth, pointed ears, and hooves.
348
00:18:05.430 --> 00:18:07.589
Whew, that scared the crap out of me.
349
00:18:08.369 --> 00:18:11.190
David then said the entity would continuously warn him that
350
00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:13.980
if they moved into this rental house, they would be harmed.
351
00:18:15.140 --> 00:18:17.420
Really? Well, wait, what rental house? The one they're in
352
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:17.839
right now?
353
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:19.099
Yeah, this one, yeah.
354
00:18:19.220 --> 00:18:20.359
I thought they were already moved in.
355
00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:21.779
Well, technically they were, but yes.
356
00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:25.140
Oh, he's just like saying, look. You know what's good
357
00:18:25.180 --> 00:18:25.579
for you.
358
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:27.839
This demon probably didn't know the technicalities of the lease
359
00:18:27.859 --> 00:18:28.859
or something.
360
00:18:29.059 --> 00:18:33.839
He probably didn't. He needs to have the facts.
361
00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:39.619
That's right. These visits kept happening, and before long, they
362
00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:41.289
were happening in the daytime as well.
363
00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:41.619
Oh, gosh.
364
00:18:43.049 --> 00:18:46.150
Now, David said that the entity said that he was
365
00:18:46.190 --> 00:18:48.210
the beast. That was the name he gave. The beast,
366
00:18:48.269 --> 00:18:50.690
and sometimes he would refer to himself as the master.
367
00:18:50.710 --> 00:18:51.150
Mm-hmm.
368
00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:54.309
He would take on the appearance of an old man
369
00:18:54.349 --> 00:18:56.619
with a white beard dressed in a flannel shirt and jeans.
370
00:18:57.460 --> 00:18:57.839
That sounds nice.
371
00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:00.539
That sounds okay. Sounds like my daddy.
372
00:19:01.579 --> 00:19:03.519
Your dad, I'm pretty sure your dad wears a flannel shirt.
373
00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:05.000
Oh, my dad wears flannel shirts.
374
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:08.220
He said that the entity would growl at him and
375
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.740
speak in foreign languages to him. He also threatened to
376
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:13.869
steal his soul. I can imagine how that would make
377
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:19.970
you a little upset. Shortly thereafter, David began to experience...
378
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:25.559
I guess unexplainable strange wounds, such as like scratches, cuts,
379
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:26.119
and bruises.
380
00:19:26.539 --> 00:19:26.980
Oh, wow.
381
00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:28.079
On his body?
382
00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:28.500
Yeah.
383
00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:30.829
And his parents saw that? Did they see it?
384
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.309
So his parents were, well, apparently, as we'll get into
385
00:19:34.329 --> 00:19:39.309
a little bit later, apparently Carl Sr. didn't believe in
386
00:19:39.390 --> 00:19:42.130
any of this stuff. So everybody else was on board,
387
00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:42.930
but Carl just said.
388
00:19:42.970 --> 00:19:43.869
He just wasn't going to have it.
389
00:19:43.950 --> 00:19:46.109
You know, that's not what the deal is. But then
390
00:19:46.130 --> 00:19:49.150
the night terror started worsening to the point that he
391
00:19:49.170 --> 00:19:56.599
would wake up screaming. like he was horrified. Poor baby. Yeah,
392
00:19:56.660 --> 00:20:00.900
his mom said that she could see her son being
393
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:04.049
thrown around like a rag doll. She could see him
394
00:20:04.089 --> 00:20:07.410
being choked by invisible hands and see the marks and
395
00:20:07.430 --> 00:20:08.289
stuff around his neck.
396
00:20:08.769 --> 00:20:14.170
There is nothing worse than a ghost bully. Do you
397
00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:14.549
feel me?
398
00:20:14.990 --> 00:20:16.880
That's true. I am familiar with that.
399
00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.640
Just rude.
400
00:20:19.259 --> 00:20:22.839
David also changed in other ways. He gained 60 pounds
401
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:23.700
in just a few months.
402
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:24.599
What?
403
00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:31.609
Yeah. He started being, like, really aggressive. He started growling.
404
00:20:32.529 --> 00:20:33.529
Oh, my goodness.
405
00:20:34.089 --> 00:20:36.390
He was kind of withdrawn from kids and stuff at school.
406
00:20:36.410 --> 00:20:36.690
Yeah.
407
00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:38.700
Well, I'm sure they started picking on him.
408
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:42.849
Well, probably. The Glatzels knew that police couldn't do anything
409
00:20:42.910 --> 00:20:44.890
about it, so they decided to reach out to the
410
00:20:44.930 --> 00:20:48.650
local Catholic church. They reached out for a priest at St.
411
00:20:48.730 --> 00:20:54.279
Joseph Roman Catholic Church there in town. And he came
412
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:56.660
by the house, and he did a ritual cleansing of
413
00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:00.000
the house, but it had no effect whatsoever. The phenomenon
414
00:21:00.039 --> 00:21:05.119
just continued. Now, this family's desperate by now, right? So
415
00:21:05.140 --> 00:21:08.049
they begged the church for help. So they referred to
416
00:21:08.109 --> 00:21:10.849
two people that live right in their own state. They're
417
00:21:10.869 --> 00:21:13.450
in Connecticut. And you may have heard of them, Ed
418
00:21:13.539 --> 00:21:14.319
and Lorraine Warren.
419
00:21:15.380 --> 00:21:17.680
Man, them heifers show up everywhere.
420
00:21:17.700 --> 00:21:22.200
Well, this was early on. This was just right after Amityville. Okay.
421
00:21:22.220 --> 00:21:24.279
So this is before a lot of the bigger stories
422
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:27.279
that we know about. Ed Warren, of course, is a demonologist,
423
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:31.700
and Lorraine is a medium. The Warrens' arrival kind of
424
00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.380
made everything ramp up.
425
00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:34.359
Oh, yeah.
426
00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:35.059
As you can imagine.
427
00:21:35.099 --> 00:21:39.539
Like, and probably really... More real. How did dad feel
428
00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:40.779
about that when they showed up?
429
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.519
They didn't really say about how dad felt. The dad
430
00:21:43.539 --> 00:21:45.619
doesn't get talked about very often at all during any
431
00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:49.509
of this. David began having seizures and fits about this time.
432
00:21:50.109 --> 00:21:52.609
He would have convulsions that required him to be restrained
433
00:21:53.150 --> 00:21:58.230
and would snarl, hiss, and spit at people. Sounds like
434
00:21:58.309 --> 00:22:03.160
UofL fans. I'm just saying. He was known to suddenly
435
00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:08.190
start reciting songs Verses from the Bible and Milton's Paradise Lost,
436
00:22:08.829 --> 00:22:11.809
which both of those are kind of, it's an odd
437
00:22:11.869 --> 00:22:15.289
combination of the two. He would also speak in voices
438
00:22:15.329 --> 00:22:17.950
that were not his. He would speak some of the
439
00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:21.099
Bible verses in Latin, which he had never been exposed to.
440
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.440
And remember, this isn't like the internet was around.
441
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.160
Yeah, of course.
442
00:22:25.180 --> 00:22:26.440
He wanted to be able to just start looking that
443
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.140
stuff up. All right. David would complain about being hit, shoved,
444
00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.769
and choked by invisible hands. He would also flinch in pain.
445
00:22:34.859 --> 00:22:37.619
from an invisible knife wound, which would come into play
446
00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:38.319
a little bit later.
447
00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:40.619
What a horrible way to live.
448
00:22:40.740 --> 00:22:40.900
Yep.
449
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:44.880
He would attack his mom. He would basically hit her
450
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:47.460
and kick her. And she said she just couldn't deal
451
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:49.809
with it anymore. He actually attacked his grandmother with a knife.
452
00:22:50.900 --> 00:22:52.440
I don't know what came of that because there really
453
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.849
wasn't anything else mentioned on it. The family started sleeping
454
00:22:55.869 --> 00:22:58.809
during the day because they had to use every bit
455
00:22:58.849 --> 00:23:01.630
of their energy at nighttime just to control him. So
456
00:23:01.670 --> 00:23:03.410
they were trying to take turns during the day sleeping
457
00:23:03.430 --> 00:23:05.109
so they would have the energy to deal with this
458
00:23:05.289 --> 00:23:05.829
night after night.
459
00:23:05.849 --> 00:23:07.849
God.
460
00:23:07.869 --> 00:23:10.359
The Warrens were actually called in 12 days after his
461
00:23:10.410 --> 00:23:13.500
first visit from the old man. All this stuff mainly
462
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:15.819
started happening about 12 days when the Warrens got involved.
463
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.200
So like the picking up weight and all that stuff,
464
00:23:19.380 --> 00:23:21.200
some of that took place after the Warrens had already
465
00:23:21.220 --> 00:23:24.700
been on the case. Now Lorraine said that she talked
466
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.029
to David for the first time and she could see
467
00:23:27.109 --> 00:23:32.569
a black mist form right beside him and Right after
468
00:23:32.650 --> 00:23:35.509
she saw the mist, he started complaining about choking and
469
00:23:35.529 --> 00:23:37.009
she saw red prints on his neck.
470
00:23:40.089 --> 00:23:41.650
I don't know how that kid handled that.
471
00:23:42.299 --> 00:23:43.400
I guess if you don't have a choice, you don't
472
00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:45.920
have a choice. So they said that there were warning
473
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.200
signs when the beast was about to take possession of him.
474
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:51.920
They said his head would lower to his chest and
475
00:23:51.940 --> 00:23:55.009
then he would slowly lift it. And when he did this,
476
00:23:55.509 --> 00:23:59.009
his features would be contorted and he would be snarling.
477
00:23:59.390 --> 00:24:01.769
And then he would let out some You know, kind
478
00:24:01.809 --> 00:24:03.450
of a hideous laugh.
479
00:24:04.869 --> 00:24:05.509
Like mine?
480
00:24:05.789 --> 00:24:05.990
Yeah.
481
00:24:08.380 --> 00:24:10.480
They said you could only see the whites of his eyes.
482
00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:12.119
Like there were no pupils.
483
00:24:12.140 --> 00:24:12.680
No pupils.
484
00:24:13.619 --> 00:24:14.720
Pupils, not pupils.
485
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:23.019
Pupils, could be. You say tomatoes, I say tomatoes. The
486
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:27.180
Warrens said that they saw a toy dinosaur walk on
487
00:24:27.220 --> 00:24:30.619
its own across the floor. They saw dishes levitate. They
488
00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:33.319
saw rocking chairs fly through the air. And one time
489
00:24:33.339 --> 00:24:35.059
they said there was a cake pan that had cake
490
00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:37.500
in it. It flew up in the air and hit
491
00:24:37.539 --> 00:24:40.440
the ceiling and left icing all over the ceiling.
492
00:24:40.630 --> 00:24:42.690
Wow. That was a waste.
493
00:24:43.049 --> 00:24:43.410
It was.
494
00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:46.869
So the Beast even called up David's brother Carl on
495
00:24:46.890 --> 00:24:49.410
the phone and told him to beware.
496
00:24:50.630 --> 00:24:52.259
Now how did he know how to use a phone?
497
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:55.039
I don't know. If they had caller ID back then,
498
00:24:55.059 --> 00:24:56.440
he probably could have figured it out because it probably
499
00:24:56.460 --> 00:24:58.710
came from a 666 area code. Ha ha ha.
500
00:24:59.369 --> 00:25:00.410
That's probably true.
501
00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:02.230
I wonder if there is a 666 area card.
502
00:25:02.509 --> 00:25:03.150
I don't know.
503
00:25:04.109 --> 00:25:04.690
I bet there's not.
504
00:25:04.750 --> 00:25:06.410
I bet there's not either. Hopefully not.
505
00:25:06.650 --> 00:25:14.309
David's sister, Debbie, she claims that a green hand reached
506
00:25:14.470 --> 00:25:17.950
up from the floor and attacked her while she was
507
00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:20.849
in bed. And she said she's also seen the face
508
00:25:20.869 --> 00:25:24.450
of the beast. She described it as cold black eyes, horns,
509
00:25:24.970 --> 00:25:29.509
pointed ears with sharp jagged teeth. And about this time
510
00:25:29.549 --> 00:25:33.069
is when she requested her 19-year-old boyfriend, Cheyenne Johnson, to
511
00:25:33.109 --> 00:25:35.150
come live with the family because they would feel safer.
512
00:25:36.269 --> 00:25:39.799
So that's how Cheyenne, the murderer, actually got involved in
513
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:45.539
all this. So the Warrens claim that David was possessed
514
00:25:45.579 --> 00:25:46.799
by 43 demons.
515
00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:48.640
Jeez.
516
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.460
And they said that the reason they know this is
517
00:25:52.529 --> 00:25:55.029
because they asked for the demons' names and he gave
518
00:25:55.029 --> 00:25:58.299
43 different names. And some of the names, most of
519
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:01.359
the names, were names that matched up with demons that
520
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:04.910
were mentioned in the Bible and through his other studies
521
00:26:04.990 --> 00:26:07.869
of other exorcisms and stuff like that.
522
00:26:08.049 --> 00:26:08.730
He's a goner.
523
00:26:09.329 --> 00:26:13.329
So the Warrens went on doing a series of exorcisms.
524
00:26:14.089 --> 00:26:21.289
They claim that the exorcism involved four different Catholic priests.
525
00:26:22.259 --> 00:26:26.990
The Warrens said that Doing the exorcism, he would stop
526
00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:29.650
breathing for like long periods of time. And then he
527
00:26:29.690 --> 00:26:33.369
would sit up and do rapid series of sit-ups that
528
00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:36.210
he couldn't even do before his weight gain. But all
529
00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:37.369
of a sudden in these exorcisms.
530
00:26:37.950 --> 00:26:39.440
He just went for it and did it.
531
00:26:39.450 --> 00:26:41.490
I think if they did enough exorcisms, he probably would
532
00:26:41.509 --> 00:26:42.049
have lost that weight.
533
00:26:42.269 --> 00:26:42.869
Yeah.
534
00:26:43.009 --> 00:26:44.690
That's my guess. Or at least had some hell of
535
00:26:44.710 --> 00:26:45.269
stomach muscles.
536
00:26:45.619 --> 00:26:45.700
Ooh.
537
00:26:45.710 --> 00:26:48.359
He had a six-pack from possession.
538
00:26:50.059 --> 00:26:51.859
That's not a good way to get it, though.
539
00:26:52.819 --> 00:26:56.279
What was that? So six-pack abs would be like six
540
00:26:56.299 --> 00:27:01.160
possession abs or something. So anyway, so they said he
541
00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:04.960
levitated at one time, and the priests were witnesses to this.
542
00:27:05.980 --> 00:27:09.920
And it was during these exorcisms when they determined the
543
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:14.680
43 demons and what came out. And in October 1980,
544
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.579
the family and the Warrens contacted the Brookfield Police Department,
545
00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:23.549
and they reported that the situation was becoming dangerous. And
546
00:27:23.589 --> 00:27:26.450
they felt that the boy posed a threat to the
547
00:27:26.490 --> 00:27:29.630
family and to society. But they were mostly ignored by
548
00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:30.329
the police department.
549
00:27:30.769 --> 00:27:32.349
I mean, what are they going to do? Like, just
550
00:27:32.390 --> 00:27:34.009
take him and put him in a home somewhere?
551
00:27:34.029 --> 00:27:35.829
I don't know what they were expecting to have done,
552
00:27:35.849 --> 00:27:39.589
to be honest with you. But they called and, you know,
553
00:27:39.630 --> 00:27:42.599
that's on record that they did that. Now, Cheyenne Johnson,
554
00:27:42.859 --> 00:27:46.920
Debbie's fiancee, really felt sorry for David because, you know,
555
00:27:47.059 --> 00:27:49.599
he seen what was going on with him. And he
556
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.740
was also exhausted because of, you know, this happening every night.
557
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:53.200
Yeah, he couldn't sleep.
558
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.299
So he started taunting the demons, and you know that
559
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.890
always works out. He would shout at them on several
560
00:28:00.930 --> 00:28:05.569
occasions to take him instead. He said, come into me,
561
00:28:05.890 --> 00:28:09.170
leave the little lad alone. I'm not scared of you,
562
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.859
I'll fight you. And then David, at that point in time,
563
00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:16.079
he said they're laughing at you.
564
00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:18.220
Oh, he did?
565
00:28:18.259 --> 00:28:21.269
Yeah, so apparently they didn't take his threat seriously. During
566
00:28:21.309 --> 00:28:23.150
one of these times where he was challenging the demons,
567
00:28:23.190 --> 00:28:26.410
he became terrified when he said he saw the demons
568
00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:29.529
and made eye contact with the demons as he looked
569
00:28:29.569 --> 00:28:30.450
into David's eyes.
570
00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:31.490
Oh, man.
571
00:28:32.470 --> 00:28:34.579
And the Warrens had already warned him never to do
572
00:28:34.619 --> 00:28:37.460
those types of things. Don't tempt them. Don't try to
573
00:28:37.579 --> 00:28:40.359
aggravate them. Don't look in the eyes. Everything that they
574
00:28:40.380 --> 00:28:43.220
told him to do, he just pretty much ignored. So
575
00:28:43.259 --> 00:28:46.000
what happens not too long after that? Cheyenne wrecked his car.
576
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.750
He wouldn't hurt, but he claims that the demon... had
577
00:28:49.829 --> 00:28:53.490
taken control of him and made him crash. Now we're
578
00:28:53.509 --> 00:28:57.500
going to fast forward to November 1980. Judy and Carl Sr.
579
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:00.400
took their son to a psychiatrist to see if there
580
00:29:00.420 --> 00:29:02.819
was anything they could do at this point. They said
581
00:29:02.859 --> 00:29:06.019
that he was completely normal, except for a minor learning disability.
582
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.720
So they sent him to this special school for children
583
00:29:09.740 --> 00:29:16.819
that had some issues, basically. Troubled kids, disabilities, stuff like that. Meanwhile,
584
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:20.230
Debbie and Cheyenne, they decided to move out. You would
585
00:29:20.250 --> 00:29:22.250
think would be a good move. Turns out not so much.
586
00:29:22.890 --> 00:29:26.380
So Debbie works at this little Brookfield Pet Motel. It's
587
00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:30.059
a place where they groom dogs and stuff like that.
588
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:32.009
I guess they board them, do some kindling and stuff
589
00:29:32.029 --> 00:29:35.069
like that. And the Pet Motel had an apartment over
590
00:29:35.109 --> 00:29:39.690
the top of them that was managed by Alan Bono.
591
00:29:40.329 --> 00:29:40.609
Okay.
592
00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:44.630
So he managed the place and was Debbie's boss, but
593
00:29:44.670 --> 00:29:48.470
he also managed the apartment. So they decided to go
594
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:53.200
ahead and move in. And we're going to take a
595
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:54.779
second right now to kind of tell you a little
596
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:57.000
bit about Alan Bono because he's really not came into
597
00:29:57.019 --> 00:29:59.200
the store yet. And he's kind of an important figure.
598
00:30:00.150 --> 00:30:02.829
So Alan was 40 years old. He had been living
599
00:30:02.849 --> 00:30:05.990
in Australia for a while, for about 17 months, and
600
00:30:06.009 --> 00:30:07.869
was running a plantation over there.
601
00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:08.269
Oh, cool.
602
00:30:08.349 --> 00:30:10.569
Then he moved to Florida, where he was staying. His
603
00:30:10.630 --> 00:30:14.140
sister actually owned that kennel. And she called him up
604
00:30:14.180 --> 00:30:16.519
and said, hey, will you come up to Connecticut and
605
00:30:16.579 --> 00:30:20.240
run this thing for me? And Alan didn't know anything
606
00:30:20.259 --> 00:30:22.480
about running a kennel, but he thought, what the hell,
607
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:24.920
I'll go ahead and do it. And so he moves
608
00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.140
up there. And at the point that all this is
609
00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:29.450
taking place, Alan has only been there for six months.
610
00:30:30.059 --> 00:30:30.220
Okay.
611
00:30:30.259 --> 00:30:35.640
Running this place. He was short, stocky, loved to talk
612
00:30:35.660 --> 00:30:37.910
about himself. And Debbie and Cheyenne just kind of hit
613
00:30:37.970 --> 00:30:40.250
it off with him. So they would hang out with
614
00:30:40.269 --> 00:30:41.390
him really often.
615
00:30:41.690 --> 00:30:41.930
Right.
616
00:30:42.650 --> 00:30:44.750
So now let's go back to Debbie and Cheyenne. Debbie
617
00:30:44.789 --> 00:30:51.980
became concerned because Cheyenne started to display strange and uncharacteristic behavior.
618
00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:55.759
He was normally really polite and even killed, according to her.
619
00:30:56.970 --> 00:30:59.069
Debbie had known him since she was 12, and this
620
00:30:59.109 --> 00:31:01.230
is a freaky story to begin with. He's now 19,
621
00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:04.529
so she's known him for about seven years. Keep in mind,
622
00:31:04.890 --> 00:31:08.299
he's 19, she's 27. Not saying that's horrible.
623
00:31:08.450 --> 00:31:08.819
Yeah.
624
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:18.279
But they met when he was 12, and she was, what, 19? 20.
625
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:20.759
So there's like eight years difference. And apparently she was
626
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:22.890
working at a grocery store. This has nothing to do
627
00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:24.559
with the story, but I'm going to tell it. But
628
00:31:24.579 --> 00:31:26.460
she was working at a grocery store, and I guess
629
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.720
there was a display that got knocked over, and 12-year-old
630
00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:33.460
Cheyenne started picking up the display and helping her, and
631
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:34.079
that's how they met.
632
00:31:34.700 --> 00:31:34.799
Oh.
633
00:31:34.980 --> 00:31:37.690
And then when he was 16, he asked her out,
634
00:31:37.809 --> 00:31:40.880
and she started, so they started dating when he was 16.
635
00:31:40.869 --> 00:31:45.269
So she was like, what, 24? 20-something, yeah. So I
636
00:31:45.309 --> 00:31:48.009
don't know about the laws in Connecticut, but, you know,
637
00:31:48.190 --> 00:31:50.480
I guess that the parents are okay with it. And
638
00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:52.559
she apparently became real good friends with his mom, and
639
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.640
at one point, His mom couldn't work and her and
640
00:31:57.220 --> 00:32:00.269
his kids, or his brothers and sisters rather, they were
641
00:32:00.309 --> 00:32:02.089
kind of raising the kids and everything because mom was
642
00:32:02.130 --> 00:32:05.269
having trouble doing it. So there is a big connection
643
00:32:05.289 --> 00:32:07.990
with the family there. So now that I've completely derailed
644
00:32:08.029 --> 00:32:09.990
us and it had nothing to do with anything, so
645
00:32:10.009 --> 00:32:16.259
we'll get back on task. They said that now that
646
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.000
they felt like this demon may have been possessing him
647
00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:22.750
as well, that he would become irate at the smallest
648
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:26.849
thing and go into these trances during which he would
649
00:32:26.910 --> 00:32:29.150
snarl and convulse, and then afterwards he would have no
650
00:32:29.190 --> 00:32:29.670
memory of it.
651
00:32:30.069 --> 00:32:30.210
Oh, geez.
652
00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:33.049
None of this stuff ever happened before he challenged the demon.
653
00:32:33.150 --> 00:32:34.410
This is not good.
654
00:32:34.930 --> 00:32:37.880
So during several of these little episodes, he would shout
655
00:32:37.930 --> 00:32:39.920
out that he could see the beast staring at him.
656
00:32:40.539 --> 00:32:44.119
So afterwards one time, he didn't remember any of this stuff,
657
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:48.819
and these weird trances become more and more frequency, and
658
00:32:48.859 --> 00:32:52.450
his behavior became more erratic. So Debbie feared that her
659
00:32:52.490 --> 00:32:54.869
fiancé may be possessed by the same demon that her
660
00:32:54.910 --> 00:32:55.970
brother was possessed by.
661
00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:58.380
Yeah, because she knew he called him out, right? Right.
662
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:00.940
Right, and she's already lived through all this with her brother,
663
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:04.680
so she sees the similarities. Now, none of Johnson's co-workers
664
00:33:05.019 --> 00:33:07.079
noticed any change in him at all, except for one
665
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:09.839
time they said he kind of went ballistic and cut
666
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:12.140
up a stuffed animal with a knife in like a
667
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:13.000
little fit of rage.
668
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:14.680
I mean.
669
00:33:14.779 --> 00:33:16.880
And they didn't really get into why or why there
670
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:19.180
was a stuffed animal there or... Because this guy worked
671
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:20.880
for like a tree service. So he was like a
672
00:33:21.059 --> 00:33:22.980
tree surgeon, which I don't know what a tree surgeon does.
673
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:23.400
Yeah.
674
00:33:24.619 --> 00:33:26.500
But that was the only time, so he really didn't
675
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:27.589
think a lot about it.
676
00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:29.900
Yeah, so it was no big deal to them. So
677
00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:34.329
on one occasion, Debbie said that Cheyenne basically looked and said,
678
00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:38.789
the beast, there he is. And he started growling and
679
00:33:38.809 --> 00:33:42.410
he started baring his teeth and just stared straight ahead. Well,
680
00:33:42.430 --> 00:33:44.829
she said that she slapped him one time, but there
681
00:33:44.869 --> 00:33:46.950
was basically no reaction from him. So she slapped him
682
00:33:47.009 --> 00:33:50.519
again and he kind of came to. And Debbie told
683
00:33:50.579 --> 00:33:53.869
him then, she said, it's gone into you. And she
684
00:33:53.890 --> 00:33:58.109
said he was responded with, oh my God, no. So
685
00:33:58.150 --> 00:34:03.730
now that brings us to February 16th, 1981. Arnie Cheyenne
686
00:34:03.769 --> 00:34:06.190
Johnson called in sick to work at Wright Tree Service.
687
00:34:06.910 --> 00:34:10.619
Debbie was working at the kennel. She was actually working
688
00:34:10.639 --> 00:34:13.099
on a black French poodle. Don't tell me I don't
689
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:21.179
get my facts, people. And Cheyenne's sisters, Wanda, who was 15,
690
00:34:21.179 --> 00:34:26.699
his other sister, who was 13, and Mary, 9, were
691
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.980
all there. They came to watch her groom because they
692
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.579
just thought it was cool. Alan Bono was also there.
693
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.460
Alan decided a little later in the day that he
694
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.760
was going to buy all of them lunch. So they
695
00:34:37.780 --> 00:34:39.420
went to this little bar called the Mug and Munch.
696
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:44.000
It's like a restaurant bar. And Cheyenne and Debbie... sat
697
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:45.940
there and they had some wine and they said that
698
00:34:45.980 --> 00:34:48.179
they had a little bit of wine, but Alan drank
699
00:34:48.219 --> 00:34:48.599
a lot.
700
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:49.559
Oh, really?
701
00:34:49.579 --> 00:34:52.219
That's what they said. So after lunch, they all went
702
00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:55.949
back to the kennel. Cheyenne fixed Bono's stereo for him.
703
00:34:56.150 --> 00:34:57.469
I don't know what was wrong with it, so I'm
704
00:34:57.489 --> 00:35:00.349
sorry if I failed you on those details. Debbie took
705
00:35:02.050 --> 00:35:04.730
the group out, the girls. She decided to take them
706
00:35:04.789 --> 00:35:07.269
out for pizza and left the two guys. So that's
707
00:35:07.289 --> 00:35:09.159
what they were doing then. Debbie said she told the
708
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.440
girls to hurry up that they needed to get back
709
00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:14.920
and Mary asked her, you know, why they needed to
710
00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:18.559
get back. And she was basically told that Debbie sensed
711
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:22.579
something was going on. And she thought there was some
712
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.599
kind of trouble. Which I don't know why she would
713
00:35:24.619 --> 00:35:26.559
have sensed that because everything was fine when she left.
714
00:35:27.139 --> 00:35:29.599
So when they get back, Bono orders them to go upstairs.
715
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.949
He turned on the TV for them. But they said
716
00:35:32.989 --> 00:35:35.789
as he's sitting there, he's kind of punching his hand,
717
00:35:36.630 --> 00:35:40.210
his fist, into his open hand. Just, you know, just
718
00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:40.949
kind of punching it.
719
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:41.570
Which.
720
00:35:42.489 --> 00:35:46.269
means obviously something must have taken place while they were
721
00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:48.860
gone because he seemed like he was kind of raging
722
00:35:48.900 --> 00:35:54.119
a little bit. And Debbie told everybody to kind of
723
00:35:54.219 --> 00:35:57.320
go downstairs, but when she did this, Bono kind of
724
00:35:57.360 --> 00:36:00.780
grabbed Mary, which was the 13-year-old, or 15-year-old, I'm sorry,
725
00:36:01.539 --> 00:36:03.179
as she was trying to leave and wouldn't let go.
726
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:07.670
So then Debbie walked over to him, and he eventually
727
00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:10.969
let Mary go. Now Cheyenne at this time had been
728
00:36:10.989 --> 00:36:12.929
heading to the car When he kind of heard the
729
00:36:12.969 --> 00:36:14.949
commotion and saw what was going on, he turned around
730
00:36:15.429 --> 00:36:19.510
and came back. He walked straight up to Bono and
731
00:36:19.710 --> 00:36:25.849
told him to let her go. Well, Wanda, the 13-year-old sister,
732
00:36:26.389 --> 00:36:29.449
she said that it just broke from there. She said
733
00:36:29.469 --> 00:36:32.130
that the children ran for the car. Debbie Glatzel got
734
00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:36.010
between the two men. Wanda said she was right there,
735
00:36:36.050 --> 00:36:38.809
still close, and she tried to grab Cheyenne and kind
736
00:36:38.849 --> 00:36:40.010
of pull him a little bit, but she said he
737
00:36:40.030 --> 00:36:42.760
was like a stone. You couldn't budge him. And she
738
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.360
said this guy was like kind of thin and wiry
739
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:48.019
and he shouldn't have very much strength. But apparently he
740
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.840
had all kinds of strength here. So Wanda said that
741
00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:55.110
he started growling like an animal. And she said something,
742
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:58.590
she saw something shiny flash in the air a few times.
743
00:36:59.590 --> 00:37:04.889
And then she said it just stopped. When it was over,
744
00:37:05.369 --> 00:37:10.929
Bono stood there for a second, still pounding his fist
745
00:37:10.969 --> 00:37:14.420
into his hand. And she said then he just collapsed
746
00:37:15.900 --> 00:37:19.599
face up next to a five-inch blade that Cheyenne always carried.
747
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:22.969
He used it for work. He had four or five
748
00:37:23.110 --> 00:37:27.329
tremendous wounds, including one that extended from his stomach to
749
00:37:27.349 --> 00:37:29.670
the base of his heart. Wait.
750
00:37:29.989 --> 00:37:31.349
He fell on the knife?
751
00:37:31.909 --> 00:37:32.070
No.
752
00:37:32.269 --> 00:37:33.429
He fell by the knife.
753
00:37:34.050 --> 00:37:34.250
Oh.
754
00:37:34.409 --> 00:37:34.969
He was stabbed.
755
00:37:35.929 --> 00:37:36.150
Oh.
756
00:37:37.070 --> 00:37:38.449
That's what the shininess was.
757
00:37:38.469 --> 00:37:40.699
The shininess was. It was the knife.
758
00:37:41.860 --> 00:37:42.000
And.
759
00:37:43.050 --> 00:37:46.650
Cheyenne stared straight ahead, walked into the woods in a
760
00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:49.750
trance-like state. So Bono died a few hours later at
761
00:37:49.789 --> 00:37:53.780
the local hospital, and Cheyenne fled the scene and was
762
00:37:53.980 --> 00:37:57.039
apprehended several miles up the road shortly thereafter.
763
00:37:59.780 --> 00:38:02.659
Did any of the younger sisters know about what was
764
00:38:02.739 --> 00:38:06.699
happening with those two, as far as maybe being possessed
765
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:07.179
or anything?
766
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:11.380
No, they just know what they saw. at that moment
767
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.219
so i don't think any of them they.
768
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:16.739
May have never told or anything okay so.
769
00:38:16.659 --> 00:38:18.719
They arrest him they charge him with first degree murder
770
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:22.030
and he claims he doesn't remember anything now this case
771
00:38:22.070 --> 00:38:26.090
was already exceptional being that it was the first murder
772
00:38:26.369 --> 00:38:29.389
ever recorded in brookfield things then took a very bizarre
773
00:38:29.409 --> 00:38:33.139
twist almost immediately the day after the murder lorraine warren
774
00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:38.780
informed brookfield police department that cheyenne johnson was possessed when
775
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:43.780
uh he committed this murder. Hmm. How about that?
776
00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.300
Well, I mean, that would answer why I don't remember.
777
00:38:47.659 --> 00:38:51.090
This caused a media frenzy, as you can even come
778
00:38:51.130 --> 00:38:57.969
close to imagining in 1981. Cheyenne's attorney, Martin Manella, received
779
00:38:58.010 --> 00:39:00.199
calls from all over the world wanting to know about
780
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.719
the demon murder trial.
781
00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:02.260
Mm-hmm.
782
00:39:03.820 --> 00:39:07.380
He traveled to England to meet with lawyers on two
783
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:11.650
separate cases... In England, there was two different cases to
784
00:39:11.690 --> 00:39:17.250
where possession was kind of used as a defense. One
785
00:39:17.289 --> 00:39:19.449
of them was an arson and one of them was
786
00:39:19.489 --> 00:39:23.460
a rape. And both of them were, I guess, worked
787
00:39:23.639 --> 00:39:26.099
out and never went to trial. So they were like
788
00:39:26.139 --> 00:39:30.219
plea bargain down. But there had been cases of... where
789
00:39:30.260 --> 00:39:31.880
this had been used as a defense. So he went
790
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.139
over there to try to meet with these guys and
791
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:35.780
try to find out, I guess, some ins and outs
792
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:36.380
on what they did.
793
00:39:36.400 --> 00:39:38.639
Yeah, so I guess it's a good thing it wasn't
794
00:39:38.659 --> 00:39:42.150
back in the early centuries because they would have took
795
00:39:42.190 --> 00:39:43.789
him out right then and there and just done away
796
00:39:43.829 --> 00:39:44.130
with him.
797
00:39:44.409 --> 00:39:48.070
I guarantee you. So police investigated the Warren's claims that
798
00:39:48.110 --> 00:39:51.809
he was possessed, but concluded that it was straightforward, open
799
00:39:51.829 --> 00:39:55.039
and shut case, basically a fit of rage and jealousy
800
00:39:55.179 --> 00:39:57.800
during an argument. That's the way they saw it. Police
801
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:02.219
said it was a fight over Cheyenne's girlfriend, Debbie. Martin
802
00:40:02.260 --> 00:40:05.099
Manella offered to take on this case for free, which
803
00:40:05.139 --> 00:40:09.750
I find very interesting. His plan all along was to
804
00:40:09.849 --> 00:40:13.130
use this demon possession to as a defense, was widely publicized.
805
00:40:13.170 --> 00:40:15.809
So it made, just the fact that he put it out,
806
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:18.340
that we're going to use this as a defense, it
807
00:40:18.409 --> 00:40:20.699
put it in all kinds of newspapers and on TV.
808
00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:27.360
So he planned on subpoenaing the priests that were involved.
809
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.659
Because shortly after the murder, the diocese actually stopped commenting
810
00:40:31.699 --> 00:40:36.340
on the case. They did acknowledge that they assigned some
811
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:40.340
priests to investigate it. But it was more just to
812
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:42.639
see what was going on with the boy. They claim
813
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.369
that there were no exorcisms done whatsoever, and part of
814
00:40:46.389 --> 00:40:50.949
the reason was that the family refused to take the
815
00:40:50.989 --> 00:40:54.489
boy for psychological testing, which is part of what you've
816
00:40:54.510 --> 00:40:56.389
got to do. They want to rule it out, and
817
00:40:56.429 --> 00:40:58.909
they refused to do that. So they say there were
818
00:40:58.949 --> 00:41:03.260
no exorcisms done. Thomas Lynch, who's the chancellor of the
819
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:08.840
Archdiocese of Hartford, says that 99.99% of all people that
820
00:41:08.860 --> 00:41:13.119
claim to be possessed are not possessed and more than
821
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.530
likely they're schizophrenics. So that's why it was important to
822
00:41:16.570 --> 00:41:21.030
get that part done. In April, Johnson's attorney gained permission
823
00:41:22.309 --> 00:41:27.320
to analyze the clothes and tissue remains of Bono, who
824
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.739
had been cremated. So it didn't do him any good
825
00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:31.000
that he got the right to do that.
826
00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:32.340
Oh, yeah, because there's nothing there.
827
00:41:34.550 --> 00:41:38.670
They said that the absence of blood, rips, or absence
828
00:41:38.710 --> 00:41:42.070
of wounds would prove that demons were involved.
829
00:41:42.090 --> 00:41:44.309
Yeah. But didn't he know? Did he not know he
830
00:41:44.349 --> 00:41:46.030
was cremated before he asked for that?
831
00:41:46.050 --> 00:41:48.059
I have no idea. But I would think, even if
832
00:41:48.099 --> 00:41:49.800
that was the case, I would think they would have
833
00:41:49.900 --> 00:41:52.659
kept the clothes and stuff. I would have thought that
834
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:53.360
would have been evidence.
835
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:55.179
Well, that's true.
836
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.519
And I'm sure there was plenty of pictures of the body. Yeah.
837
00:41:58.539 --> 00:42:00.550
Because they take that crime scene photos when they get there.
838
00:42:01.389 --> 00:42:03.449
So as it got closer to the trial, the Warrens
839
00:42:03.510 --> 00:42:07.650
in Manila... I've started drawing criticism from their peers saying
840
00:42:07.670 --> 00:42:09.769
that they were only involved in this for personal gain.
841
00:42:11.110 --> 00:42:14.590
The Amazing Crush, can you ever heard of him? Yes, actually. He,
842
00:42:14.909 --> 00:42:16.679
you know, he's got something out, and I don't know
843
00:42:16.699 --> 00:42:18.500
if he, I think he might have died here or something.
844
00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:19.260
Yeah, I think he did.
845
00:42:19.300 --> 00:42:21.579
But he had a deal out for like a million dollars,
846
00:42:21.619 --> 00:42:24.239
I think it was, if anybody could prove the paranormal
847
00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:26.699
for like the last 30 or 40 years. And he
848
00:42:26.760 --> 00:42:28.820
never had to pay it up because nobody could technically
849
00:42:28.949 --> 00:42:31.329
prove it. So he was like one of these big skeptics.
850
00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:32.650
Of course, he's a famous magician.
851
00:42:32.670 --> 00:42:32.989
Yeah.
852
00:42:33.750 --> 00:42:37.610
But, The whole deal with him, he said the Brookfield
853
00:42:37.630 --> 00:42:40.590
case is a simple means for the Warrens to prey
854
00:42:40.650 --> 00:42:42.230
on the superstitions of the public.
855
00:42:43.389 --> 00:42:44.269
What's the peblic?
856
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:45.949
Public.
857
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:50.280
That's great.
858
00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:53.659
To prey on the superstitions of the public to build
859
00:42:53.719 --> 00:42:59.869
up their annual lecture revenue. They have an excellent vaudeville act,
860
00:42:59.909 --> 00:43:03.070
he said. A good road show. That's what he thought
861
00:43:03.090 --> 00:43:06.440
of the Warrens. Didn't think real highly of them. But
862
00:43:06.460 --> 00:43:08.559
then you also had local attorneys that they said Manila
863
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:12.559
was only representing Johnson to rake in publicity, and they
864
00:43:12.579 --> 00:43:17.889
didn't take the possession defense serious at all. Now, the Warrens, coincidentally,
865
00:43:18.969 --> 00:43:23.170
their book, The Demonologist, started flying off the shelves after
866
00:43:23.210 --> 00:43:25.809
they decided to speak out about this case.
867
00:43:25.929 --> 00:43:26.710
Yeah, sure.
868
00:43:27.090 --> 00:43:30.059
There was no paranormal activity, just people were buying them
869
00:43:30.219 --> 00:43:30.559
real quick.
870
00:43:31.010 --> 00:43:32.469
I just want to.
871
00:43:32.289 --> 00:43:34.030
Make sure you knew that when I said flying off
872
00:43:34.050 --> 00:43:34.469
the shelf.
873
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:37.559
I caught you.
874
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:42.079
Okay. So people also blamed the Warrens for using the
875
00:43:42.139 --> 00:43:44.960
case as a publicity graph, as you could imagine. They
876
00:43:44.980 --> 00:43:47.860
were already talking about book deals to the family, and
877
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.610
they were talking about making millions for the entire family.
878
00:43:51.170 --> 00:43:53.630
Lorraine said that she and her husband worked closely with
879
00:43:53.650 --> 00:43:57.130
the church officials, and they viewed demonology as an extension
880
00:43:57.150 --> 00:44:01.650
of theology, and it would... defeat any purpose they had
881
00:44:02.130 --> 00:44:03.869
if they were being deceitful or dishonest.
882
00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:06.780
Well, there you go.
883
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:09.699
Now Manila admitted, on the other hand, to the press
884
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:13.099
early that he thought handling this case would bring some
885
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:15.820
good publicity and it would lead to some more lucrative
886
00:44:15.860 --> 00:44:18.800
cases down the road. So he already kind of admitted
887
00:44:18.840 --> 00:44:20.889
early that that was going to be the case. Now
888
00:44:20.929 --> 00:44:24.489
during the jury selection, which started in October of 1981,
889
00:44:24.469 --> 00:44:25.070
this thing moved along.
890
00:44:26.570 --> 00:44:26.940
Sounds like it.
891
00:44:26.949 --> 00:44:28.849
I mean, they already got juries and stuff in October,
892
00:44:28.889 --> 00:44:30.090
and this stuff happened in February.
893
00:44:30.110 --> 00:44:30.210
Yeah.
894
00:44:30.230 --> 00:44:31.730
I mean, nowadays it's like a year and a half.
895
00:44:31.789 --> 00:44:32.349
Oh, I know.
896
00:44:33.570 --> 00:44:36.739
People flocked to see the Demon Murder Trial, as it
897
00:44:36.780 --> 00:44:40.599
was called. The local Hilton Hotel was booked for several
898
00:44:40.659 --> 00:44:42.119
nights in a row, so it couldn't get a room.
899
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:48.110
The courtroom that held, I guess, the case itself would
900
00:44:48.130 --> 00:44:51.170
only seat 70 people, so it wasn't really big enough
901
00:44:51.190 --> 00:44:52.750
for what they had going on. People in there were
902
00:44:52.789 --> 00:44:53.869
shoulder to shoulder, they said.
903
00:44:53.889 --> 00:44:54.250
Mm-hmm.
904
00:44:55.489 --> 00:45:00.519
Many thought that he was going to use possession as
905
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:03.780
an insanity defense. But instead, he said that his whole
906
00:45:03.820 --> 00:45:06.219
point was he was going to prove that Johnson actually
907
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:08.920
was possessed and he was going to prove that demons existed.
908
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:13.889
Manella's plan was to use recorded audio of the exorcisms
909
00:45:14.469 --> 00:45:17.010
that the Warrens and the priests had made. And he
910
00:45:17.130 --> 00:45:20.030
even had some audio of Johnson calling out the demon,
911
00:45:20.429 --> 00:45:23.159
challenging him. So that was part of the plan. He
912
00:45:23.179 --> 00:45:27.139
was also going to question the priests involved, and these
913
00:45:27.219 --> 00:45:31.000
priests who coincidentally had all been transferred to other dioceses.
914
00:45:31.429 --> 00:45:32.119
Oh, nice.
915
00:45:32.219 --> 00:45:36.260
None of them were there. But just as fast as
916
00:45:36.280 --> 00:45:40.150
all this possession and defense started, it was halted. Superior
917
00:45:40.210 --> 00:45:45.769
Court Judge Robert J. Callahan, who later became Chief Justice
918
00:45:46.130 --> 00:45:49.010
of the Supreme Court, said he refused to hear Manila's
919
00:45:49.269 --> 00:45:52.159
planned argument. He said, I'm not going to allow the
920
00:45:52.199 --> 00:45:56.960
defense of demon possessions, period. So Manila tried to have
921
00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:01.320
Callahan disqualified from the case, and it didn't work.
922
00:46:01.619 --> 00:46:02.559
Oh, it didn't?
923
00:46:02.599 --> 00:46:05.820
Yeah, no, it didn't work. And Callahan said that he
924
00:46:05.889 --> 00:46:10.130
isn't sure whether demon possession is possible. He knows it's
925
00:46:10.170 --> 00:46:13.329
not a legal defense, though, and he considered evidence of
926
00:46:13.409 --> 00:46:19.570
it irrelevant and unprovable and pretty much confusing to a jury.
927
00:46:19.869 --> 00:46:21.670
So that's why he was not going to allow it.
928
00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:28.519
Prosecutor Walter Flanagan and the police stuck with a simple explanation.
929
00:46:29.400 --> 00:46:33.059
Bono made an obscene remark about Debbie. The two men
930
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:38.760
fought before Cheyenne Johnson stabbed him. That simple. Now the
931
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:42.869
case wasn't exactly as exciting as the press liked it
932
00:46:42.929 --> 00:46:45.489
without the demonology being able to be used.
933
00:46:45.769 --> 00:46:48.090
Yeah, but they weren't there. They don't know what happened.
934
00:46:48.309 --> 00:46:51.170
No, but... It didn't matter because now all the stuff
935
00:46:51.190 --> 00:46:53.369
that the people were flocking to seize wasn't going to happen.
936
00:46:53.690 --> 00:46:57.010
Well, I don't know. I get that, but you can't
937
00:46:57.030 --> 00:46:59.969
go by what the po-po said because they weren't there.
938
00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:04.679
So what Manila was focused on, well, you may find
939
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:07.699
out different, though, as we get a little deeper in.
940
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:12.920
So what Manila was focused on, this whole demon prosecution thing,
941
00:47:13.969 --> 00:47:18.449
and the prosecution, though, they blamed a different demon, alcohol.
942
00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:20.519
See what I did there?
943
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:21.199
I did.
944
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:25.219
A waitress at the Mug and Munch, which is an
945
00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:28.050
awesome name for a bar and restaurant, said that both
946
00:47:28.190 --> 00:47:32.849
men had drank a lot of wine. That evening, the
947
00:47:32.909 --> 00:47:37.909
group was in the apartment. Neighbors heard some noises from outside,
948
00:47:37.969 --> 00:47:41.989
loud noises, and they saw two people running towards Bono.
949
00:47:43.010 --> 00:47:47.650
The ambulance and the police, they get on the scene
950
00:47:47.670 --> 00:47:50.889
of the crime, right? and they find Bono face up
951
00:47:51.070 --> 00:47:54.989
with four half-moon stab wounds below his ribcage. The ambulance
952
00:47:55.030 --> 00:47:57.489
driver said, and this was huge in this case, he
953
00:47:57.530 --> 00:48:00.599
said that he heard Debbie tell her father, because they
954
00:48:00.619 --> 00:48:03.619
were standing right next to the body, he heard Debbie
955
00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:07.900
tell the father that, oh, daddy, he didn't mean to
956
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:10.380
do it. You know how he gets when he's been drinking.
957
00:48:11.699 --> 00:48:11.840
Oh.
958
00:48:12.179 --> 00:48:15.570
That's what the ambulance driver overheard, who had no reason
959
00:48:15.590 --> 00:48:16.210
at all to give it to him.
960
00:48:16.230 --> 00:48:17.150
For him to say anything, yeah.
961
00:48:17.539 --> 00:48:22.559
The police officer said that Debbie's brother Carl said Shane
962
00:48:22.579 --> 00:48:26.059
did it. Well, that didn't mean anything to me, because
963
00:48:26.099 --> 00:48:27.739
if he was possessed, he was still the one doing it.
964
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:28.170
Yeah.
965
00:48:29.389 --> 00:48:35.570
Despite Callahan banning this whole demon defense, Manila still tried
966
00:48:35.590 --> 00:48:38.840
to pull the four priests together and put them on
967
00:48:38.860 --> 00:48:42.679
the stand, and Callahan wouldn't allow it. So the priests,
968
00:48:42.780 --> 00:48:44.880
even though they were subpoenaed, he wouldn't let them get
969
00:48:44.960 --> 00:48:47.940
on the stand. Ed Warren, who was supposed to be
970
00:48:48.099 --> 00:48:51.179
the big shot witness in this, was kind of delegated
971
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:53.780
as just a character witness. So all he could basically
972
00:48:53.820 --> 00:48:55.219
do is get up there and say Cheyenne was a
973
00:48:55.219 --> 00:48:59.219
good guy. That's all his involvement could be. The demonology stuff,
974
00:48:59.809 --> 00:49:00.650
couldn't use any of it.
975
00:49:01.130 --> 00:49:03.670
I didn't know a judge could do that, even after
976
00:49:03.690 --> 00:49:04.610
you've been subpoenaed.
977
00:49:05.449 --> 00:49:07.650
Well, I guess because if he's not going to allow
978
00:49:08.789 --> 00:49:11.389
that defense, there's no point in listening to him. Because
979
00:49:11.429 --> 00:49:12.840
he doesn't want to confuse the jury.
980
00:49:13.059 --> 00:49:15.099
No, I totally get that. I just didn't know he
981
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:18.239
had the power to do that. well because it's like
982
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:22.360
not a fair like i would say it's not a
983
00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:25.860
fair trial because nobody got to hear the other stuff.
984
00:49:25.619 --> 00:49:32.260
Yeah but if it doesn't involve science they're not going
985
00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:35.239
to allow it in a courtroom courtrooms are based on
986
00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:38.739
That's not based on belief and conviction. Now, if you're
987
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.440
talking about somebody's religion, I mean, if your religion tells
988
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:47.880
you to, you're a Satan worshiper, and your religion tells
989
00:49:47.900 --> 00:49:50.619
you to make some type of sacrifices, say you sacrifice
990
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:54.159
live chickens, does that mean that you can't be taken
991
00:49:54.199 --> 00:49:57.219
to court and charged for animal cruelty because your religion
992
00:49:57.239 --> 00:49:57.940
says you can do it?
993
00:49:58.420 --> 00:49:58.599
Nope.
994
00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:02.719
In this country, you could still be taken to court
995
00:50:02.739 --> 00:50:04.679
for that. If you say, hey, I need to make
996
00:50:04.699 --> 00:50:07.599
a human sacrifice once a month They're not going to
997
00:50:07.619 --> 00:50:10.679
allow you to do that based on your religion. So therefore,
998
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:15.599
the same thing applies here. Because there is a demon,
999
00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:18.760
which would be a religious belief, they're not going to
1000
00:50:18.800 --> 00:50:22.210
let that go because you can't prove that you're possessed.
1001
00:50:23.030 --> 00:50:25.550
You can show all the evidence. It's like we talked
1002
00:50:25.590 --> 00:50:28.570
about with ghosts and stuff like that. People will never
1003
00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:32.510
believe unless they just believe. You can never convince a skeptic.
1004
00:50:33.889 --> 00:50:36.130
You know, that ghosts are real because no matter what
1005
00:50:36.170 --> 00:50:38.010
you show them that's proof, they're going, oh, that's not
1006
00:50:38.050 --> 00:50:41.170
real proof. Yeah. Well, that's something else. So, I mean,
1007
00:50:41.429 --> 00:50:44.570
that's why. And because you can't physically put your hand
1008
00:50:44.650 --> 00:50:48.329
on it and prove it, you know. I'd be like,
1009
00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:49.750
you know, they would do the same thing if it
1010
00:50:49.789 --> 00:50:52.630
was reversed. If it was a lady saying an angel
1011
00:50:52.730 --> 00:50:55.070
told her to do something and it involved a crime,
1012
00:50:55.110 --> 00:50:56.230
they wouldn't allow that either.
1013
00:50:56.690 --> 00:50:58.130
Oh, that's interesting.
1014
00:50:59.590 --> 00:51:03.369
So, anyways, so back to Ed Warren. He was dealt...
1015
00:51:04.219 --> 00:51:07.219
relegated to just being a character witness, which was nowhere
1016
00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.099
near what he thought he was going to be.
1017
00:51:08.980 --> 00:51:11.500
The, you know, the big shot that could.
1018
00:51:11.219 --> 00:51:14.440
Tell you this and that. The expert witness, more or less.
1019
00:51:14.900 --> 00:51:17.340
But Ed was only on the stand for a few minutes.
1020
00:51:18.230 --> 00:51:21.070
He said that Cheyenne was quiet and considerate and that
1021
00:51:21.329 --> 00:51:23.369
he found it hard to believe that he could do this.
1022
00:51:24.250 --> 00:51:27.789
And then it said, but then he reluctantly stepped down.
1023
00:51:27.849 --> 00:51:32.349
So I don't think he went quietly, so to speak. Now,
1024
00:51:32.530 --> 00:51:36.590
since he couldn't use His original defense, he decided to
1025
00:51:36.630 --> 00:51:40.250
switch to trying to use the self-defense. And he said
1026
00:51:41.050 --> 00:51:44.389
he was going to have Cheyenne testify for himself. And
1027
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:49.059
Cheyenne said that Bono was drunk and he provoked the argument.
1028
00:51:49.699 --> 00:51:52.300
He said that Bono ran at him with Cheyenne's knife.
1029
00:51:52.820 --> 00:51:56.059
So Bono had the knife in this scenario. And he
1030
00:51:56.139 --> 00:51:59.019
ran at Cheyenne and Cheyenne said he doesn't remember anything
1031
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:03.409
after that. Now, after 17 hours over three days, the
1032
00:52:03.449 --> 00:52:08.570
jury convicted Arnie Cheyenne Johnson of manslaughter, not murder, on
1033
00:52:08.630 --> 00:52:13.889
November 24th, 1981. He was given a 10-year sentence, but
1034
00:52:13.929 --> 00:52:16.380
was released on good behavior after five years.
1035
00:52:16.820 --> 00:52:17.119
Wow.
1036
00:52:18.539 --> 00:52:19.159
Cut in half.
1037
00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:22.559
Like he did the other guy.
1038
00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:23.239
Yeah.
1039
00:52:23.320 --> 00:52:27.480
Pretty much. So the case spawned the 1983 book, The
1040
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:31.530
Devil in Connecticut, which the Warrens were I believe, involved with.
1041
00:52:31.550 --> 00:52:31.809
Yeah.
1042
00:52:32.989 --> 00:52:36.489
And an NBC movie called The Demon Murder Case, starring
1043
00:52:37.730 --> 00:52:43.780
Andy Griffith, Yay! Cloris Leachman, and a very young Kevin Bacon.
1044
00:52:44.260 --> 00:52:47.800
Oh my gosh. I need to watch this movie.
1045
00:52:48.719 --> 00:52:54.619
Cheyenne married Debbie Glatzel on January 30th, 1985, a year
1046
00:52:54.659 --> 00:52:59.320
before he was released from jail. They had Two sons
1047
00:52:59.679 --> 00:53:00.710
and two grandsons.
1048
00:53:01.730 --> 00:53:01.849
Aw.
1049
00:53:02.309 --> 00:53:04.050
And they live up in Connecticut still today.
1050
00:53:05.070 --> 00:53:07.510
Well, that was a good ending, at least, to the story.
1051
00:53:07.530 --> 00:53:08.050
Yeah.
1052
00:53:08.409 --> 00:53:10.860
And just for further knowledge, she's a CNA and he
1053
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:12.300
works for a construction company.
1054
00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:12.980
Well, no kidding.
1055
00:53:13.000 --> 00:53:13.659
He's a supervisor.
1056
00:53:14.179 --> 00:53:14.300
Aw.
1057
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:15.139
So.
1058
00:53:15.559 --> 00:53:16.360
Well, good for them.
1059
00:53:16.619 --> 00:53:18.500
They said that he started off as a regular worker,
1060
00:53:18.539 --> 00:53:20.719
got promoted to supervisor, and what they like about him
1061
00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:21.590
is he's a huge cut up.
1062
00:53:24.150 --> 00:53:24.409
Oh.
1063
00:53:24.429 --> 00:53:26.150
So I guess he's not possessed no more then?
1064
00:53:26.510 --> 00:53:29.230
No, let's get back on that topic. I don't guess
1065
00:53:29.250 --> 00:53:33.210
there's been anything with him, but keep in mind this
1066
00:53:33.250 --> 00:53:35.710
was 1981 when all this took place, but they said
1067
00:53:35.949 --> 00:53:39.650
even a couple years after the fact that David, her
1068
00:53:39.670 --> 00:53:42.949
little brother, was still having some incidents happen even though
1069
00:53:43.030 --> 00:53:45.429
it wasn't as often.
1070
00:53:45.730 --> 00:53:48.130
See, that demon was in jail and he didn't like
1071
00:53:48.150 --> 00:53:49.190
it too much.
1072
00:53:49.389 --> 00:53:51.309
And let's talk about the financial side. And I'm going
1073
00:53:51.329 --> 00:53:52.730
off memory here. I don't have any of this written
1074
00:53:52.769 --> 00:53:54.750
down because somehow or another it slipped my mind until
1075
00:53:54.789 --> 00:53:59.099
just now. But Recently, within the last two or three years,
1076
00:53:59.780 --> 00:54:04.570
you've got Carl Sr. and David, who was the son.
1077
00:54:05.329 --> 00:54:07.570
This book, that book Devil in Connecticut was released, and
1078
00:54:07.590 --> 00:54:10.210
it was like re-released. And I don't remember what year,
1079
00:54:10.250 --> 00:54:12.829
but it was like 2012 or something. It wasn't that
1080
00:54:12.889 --> 00:54:16.789
long ago when it was re-released. And the Warrens said
1081
00:54:16.849 --> 00:54:19.739
that they had paid the family, you know, part for
1082
00:54:19.780 --> 00:54:22.980
having this book. Well, some of the family members, mainly
1083
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:27.510
David and Carl, Said that all they got was like $ 2, 000.
1084
00:54:27.369 --> 00:54:29.610
That was it? For the entire family.
1085
00:54:30.110 --> 00:54:30.530
For all the family?
1086
00:54:30.750 --> 00:54:31.929
For the entire family, $ 2, 000.
1087
00:54:31.769 --> 00:54:33.690
So the whole family's still alive?
1088
00:54:34.210 --> 00:54:37.030
I think most of them are, yeah. And now what
1089
00:54:37.090 --> 00:54:39.389
Carl was pissed about is he said the book made
1090
00:54:39.449 --> 00:54:41.710
him out to be like this horrible dad.
1091
00:54:41.730 --> 00:54:44.090
Yeah, but he wasn't even in it.
1092
00:54:44.429 --> 00:54:46.389
Well, they're saying he didn't believe it. Well, the book,
1093
00:54:46.409 --> 00:54:48.210
I think he was more prevalent, but saying that he
1094
00:54:48.250 --> 00:54:50.550
didn't believe in any of this stuff and it was
1095
00:54:50.590 --> 00:54:53.909
just all BS and David said that they were taking
1096
00:54:53.929 --> 00:54:59.710
advantage of his mental problems. I guess the fact that
1097
00:54:59.769 --> 00:55:02.510
he was having a mental disorder back then and some
1098
00:55:02.570 --> 00:55:05.650
personal problems. He says that they were taking advantage of
1099
00:55:05.690 --> 00:55:09.809
that situation. He says that he doesn't think he was possessed.
1100
00:55:09.869 --> 00:55:13.150
He just thinks he had some mental issues. They wanted
1101
00:55:13.250 --> 00:55:17.000
to morph that into more than what it was and
1102
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:19.219
turn it into a possession because they knew they could
1103
00:55:19.260 --> 00:55:20.619
make money off of it to warrants.
1104
00:55:21.119 --> 00:55:21.760
What do you think?
1105
00:55:23.010 --> 00:55:24.760
Knowing what I know about the Warrens, I'm sure that's
1106
00:55:24.820 --> 00:55:25.719
probably pretty.
1107
00:55:25.539 --> 00:55:25.980
Close to be right.
1108
00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:26.280
What it was.
1109
00:55:26.659 --> 00:55:30.199
I mean, when you have a situation where, let's say
1110
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.780
it is what it is. Let's say that David thinks
1111
00:55:34.820 --> 00:55:36.400
he's possessed, but he's not. Maybe it is some kind
1112
00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.119
of schizophrenia or something. A chemical imbalance.
1113
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:39.539
Who knows?
1114
00:55:40.119 --> 00:55:43.099
But let's say that's the case. Well, now you've got
1115
00:55:43.119 --> 00:55:45.900
the Warrens in there constantly talking about this and talking
1116
00:55:45.940 --> 00:55:49.219
about that. And they're talking about demons and demons, demons, demons.
1117
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:52.260
So now everybody's consumed with the thought that it's demons.
1118
00:55:52.889 --> 00:55:57.460
Now you got this 19-year-old kid, basically, and he's seeing
1119
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:00.460
all this. If he's not 100% right in the head,
1120
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:04.739
then maybe, you know, it's easy for him to talk
1121
00:56:04.780 --> 00:56:07.860
himself into thinking he's possessed. You know what I'm saying? Yeah,
1122
00:56:07.880 --> 00:56:09.800
that's terrible, though. And can cause some of the actions
1123
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:10.420
he was doing.
1124
00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:10.820
Yeah.
1125
00:56:11.179 --> 00:56:14.599
Now, let's remember, everybody's treating him like he's this great boy.
1126
00:56:16.000 --> 00:56:18.380
But there was a situation at his work where he
1127
00:56:18.400 --> 00:56:19.489
did lose control.
1128
00:56:19.510 --> 00:56:19.619
Yeah.
1129
00:56:20.030 --> 00:56:22.889
There was a situation where Debbie told her dad, you
1130
00:56:22.929 --> 00:56:24.630
know how he gets when he's been drinking.
1131
00:56:24.829 --> 00:56:25.150
Yeah.
1132
00:56:25.489 --> 00:56:28.369
So, I mean, who knows? You know, I don't know
1133
00:56:28.429 --> 00:56:30.679
how much any of that was true. It very well
1134
00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.260
could have been the two guys arguing over... It could
1135
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:36.860
have just been a jealous boyfriend. Yeah. And you mix
1136
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.719
alcohol in with that and, you know, a little bit
1137
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:41.460
of jealous rage. Who knows what happened?
1138
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:44.239
Well, I mean, that's terrible to do that if that's
1139
00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:48.170
what the Warrens did because... You know, this kid's like
1140
00:56:48.190 --> 00:56:49.900
thinking probably, what the heck is wrong with me?
1141
00:56:49.909 --> 00:56:52.869
But that's what the Warrens always did. I mean, you've
1142
00:56:52.889 --> 00:56:56.789
got the situation with Amityville where most people believe that
1143
00:56:57.949 --> 00:56:59.550
they were just told, hey, write the book and make
1144
00:56:59.570 --> 00:57:05.159
it scary. You've got The Haunting in Connecticut, which, you know,
1145
00:57:05.219 --> 00:57:09.800
it's already came out to the fact that the author
1146
00:57:09.820 --> 00:57:11.840
of the book said, well, I've only got, you know,
1147
00:57:11.980 --> 00:57:14.119
so much of it. They're not really cooperating. And they said, well,
1148
00:57:14.139 --> 00:57:16.599
you've got enough of it. Make the rest up. I mean,
1149
00:57:17.340 --> 00:57:20.639
you know, my feelings for the Warrens are I think
1150
00:57:20.659 --> 00:57:22.539
they were just a bunch of, I agree with the
1151
00:57:22.699 --> 00:57:24.519
Amazing Kreskin. I think they were just a dog and
1152
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:26.780
pony show and they found a way to be able
1153
00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:29.360
to make money. It's like I've said before on this show,
1154
00:57:30.150 --> 00:57:32.170
you know, you don't just all of a sudden take
1155
00:57:32.210 --> 00:57:34.929
a couple classes and call yourself a demonologist. And then
1156
00:57:34.969 --> 00:57:36.730
when they met, she wasn't a medium, but all of
1157
00:57:36.750 --> 00:57:39.030
a sudden becomes a medium. I'm not saying it can't happen.
1158
00:57:39.070 --> 00:57:41.130
It just sounds very convenient.
1159
00:57:41.630 --> 00:57:44.489
That's just a shame, though, to drag people along with
1160
00:57:44.530 --> 00:57:47.300
you like that. mess with their minds.
1161
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:50.820
Well, and if you remember also with the story with
1162
00:57:50.860 --> 00:57:55.190
the parents, when we talked to Andrea, you know, she
1163
00:57:55.269 --> 00:57:58.650
says that the Warrens were basically tracking her mom down
1164
00:57:58.710 --> 00:58:00.250
and trying to get her to do this book and
1165
00:58:00.289 --> 00:58:03.429
movie deal when they didn't want to do it. And,
1166
00:58:03.610 --> 00:58:06.510
you know, but that's, she was so far, that's all
1167
00:58:06.550 --> 00:58:09.750
they cared about was trying to get book and movie deals. So,
1168
00:58:10.650 --> 00:58:13.110
I don't know. I can't, I just find it hard
1169
00:58:13.139 --> 00:58:16.059
to believe that they had the good of anybody other
1170
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:17.460
than themselves for any of these stories.
1171
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:19.300
Yeah, that's what it sounds like, for sure.
1172
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:24.639
So, well, what did you think about that story?
1173
00:58:24.659 --> 00:58:28.090
Oh, it was really interesting. I liked it. I just
1174
00:58:28.329 --> 00:58:31.329
really feel bad for that child. That's terrible to have to,
1175
00:58:31.510 --> 00:58:34.050
you know, if you did live through that, nor just,
1176
00:58:34.269 --> 00:58:36.610
like I said, having the Warrens try to convince you
1177
00:58:36.750 --> 00:58:39.590
or tell you, you know, that that's what's happening or,
1178
00:58:39.610 --> 00:58:41.210
I don't know.
1179
00:58:41.329 --> 00:58:45.630
Can a story have more involvement than what this one does.
1180
00:58:45.670 --> 00:58:48.030
I mean, think about it. You've got a possessed little boy.
1181
00:58:48.190 --> 00:58:51.230
You've got the Warrens getting involved. You've got that possession
1182
00:58:51.250 --> 00:58:55.099
leading to another possession, which leads to a murder, which
1183
00:58:55.139 --> 00:58:57.920
is the first murder that's happened in 193 years of
1184
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:00.739
a town's existence, and then going from that to a
1185
00:59:00.820 --> 00:59:04.130
trial where they were trying to use possession as a
1186
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.250
defense for the first time. That's a lot of stuff
1187
00:59:06.269 --> 00:59:06.909
for one story.
1188
00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:09.090
That is a lot. But wasn't there a lady that was.
1189
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:10.980
Used that?
1190
00:59:11.699 --> 00:59:14.960
Well, yes and no. That was the one in Louisville.
1191
00:59:15.260 --> 00:59:15.519
Yeah.
1192
00:59:15.539 --> 00:59:17.980
The prospect that we actually did the Patreon story for.
1193
00:59:18.860 --> 00:59:23.320
And what her situation was is she killed her husband
1194
00:59:23.429 --> 00:59:27.800
in self-defense, but she said that he was possessed. And
1195
00:59:27.840 --> 00:59:29.659
that's why she had to kill him. But she wasn't
1196
00:59:29.739 --> 00:59:30.739
using possession.
1197
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:31.019
As a defense. Oh, okay.
1198
00:59:31.059 --> 00:59:31.599
That's right.
1199
00:59:31.699 --> 00:59:32.719
I knew it was something like that.
1200
00:59:32.739 --> 00:59:32.880
Per se.
1201
00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:34.800
But she was saying that was one of the reasons
1202
00:59:34.840 --> 00:59:37.519
that he thought he was possessed, whether he was or wasn't.
1203
00:59:37.539 --> 00:59:37.659
Yeah.
1204
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:40.110
It wasn't a factor. But he thought he was, so
1205
00:59:40.119 --> 00:59:41.130
she feared for her life.
1206
00:59:41.150 --> 00:59:42.070
Mm-hmm. So.
1207
00:59:42.530 --> 00:59:44.789
Yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty good story.
1208
00:59:46.170 --> 00:59:49.170
Well, without further ado.
1209
00:59:50.050 --> 00:59:52.469
Well, yeah.
1210
00:59:53.070 --> 00:59:55.690
Without further ado, we're going to. Without further ado. We're
1211
00:59:55.710 --> 00:59:58.869
going to go ahead and play this audio from Dina
1212
00:59:58.969 --> 01:00:01.469
and Jeremy. And like I said, it starts off with
1213
01:00:01.769 --> 01:00:04.449
a little bit about their shows, but it gets into
1214
01:00:04.489 --> 01:00:07.800
some awesome paranormal stories. So we had fun with this.
1215
01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:10.460
And it's funny too, I think. If you've ever listened
1216
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:14.159
to Jeremy and Dina get at each other, they definitely
1217
01:00:14.199 --> 01:00:15.840
say what's on their mind. There may be a little
1218
01:00:15.860 --> 01:00:17.219
bit of cursing too, so I'll just give you a
1219
01:00:17.219 --> 01:00:20.260
little heads up. If you've ever listened to Twisted Philly,
1220
01:00:20.699 --> 01:00:22.989
you know there's going to be some cursing. And she's
1221
01:00:23.090 --> 01:00:28.849
obviously rubbed off on Jeremy. But as usual, I was
1222
01:00:28.889 --> 01:00:31.570
a good boy. So anyways, let's give this a listen
1223
01:00:31.590 --> 01:00:32.130
and we'll talk to you.
1224
01:00:32.090 --> 01:00:32.340
In a minute.
1225
01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:36.519
All right, guys. We did a roundtable discussion with Phil
1226
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:39.980
Holmes from Scared and Worst Crimes Ever. And then we
1227
01:00:40.019 --> 01:00:44.679
also had Lee from So Away From... Well, I can't
1228
01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:48.760
never remember his new damn show. It's Realm of the Supernatural,
1229
01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:50.389
but it used to be Don't Break the Oath. And
1230
01:00:50.409 --> 01:00:53.480
a lot of people really liked that. So I thought,
1231
01:00:53.900 --> 01:00:55.940
I think I want to get two other podcasters on
1232
01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:59.050
and tell us some scary stories. And I thought, well,
1233
01:00:59.210 --> 01:01:03.530
who could I possibly hook up with? And then I thought,
1234
01:01:03.570 --> 01:01:06.210
you know what? I've got the perfect two people. So
1235
01:01:06.250 --> 01:01:09.469
who I have brought on for you guys tonight is
1236
01:01:09.710 --> 01:01:13.010
Jeremy Collins from Podcasts We Listen To. You guys know
1237
01:01:13.030 --> 01:01:15.980
the group on Facebook, and you've probably heard his show
1238
01:01:16.079 --> 01:01:20.710
several times. And Miss Dena Marie from Twisted Philly. I
1239
01:01:20.889 --> 01:01:23.199
had the pleasure of spending time with both of these
1240
01:01:23.260 --> 01:01:27.320
people in the Waverly show that we did, and had
1241
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:29.739
a blast, and I thought, there's no doubt that's who
1242
01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:32.059
I want to bring on. So guys, welcome to the show.
1243
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:33.360
Thank you very much.
1244
01:01:33.840 --> 01:01:36.199
Thanks for having us on, man.
1245
01:01:36.519 --> 01:01:37.320
It's good to be back.
1246
01:01:37.900 --> 01:01:40.860
Yeah, Dina, obviously, was on about almost a year ago,
1247
01:01:41.179 --> 01:01:44.280
and then me and Tracy were on Jeremy's show, so
1248
01:01:44.300 --> 01:01:47.019
this is Jeremy's first time being on this show, and
1249
01:01:47.059 --> 01:01:51.130
I'm sure I've confused everybody by now, so... But before
1250
01:01:51.170 --> 01:01:54.449
we go any further, you guys have a show you
1251
01:01:54.489 --> 01:01:58.940
do together that is fairly new, but it's very entertaining.
1252
01:01:59.699 --> 01:02:02.320
It's called Educating Jeremy. Why don't y'all take a few
1253
01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:03.820
seconds to tell us about that show?
1254
01:02:04.460 --> 01:02:05.059
Thank you.
1255
01:02:05.500 --> 01:02:08.340
Educating Jeremy is the podcast where we watch movies that
1256
01:02:08.559 --> 01:02:11.860
I love, but Jeremy hasn't seen before because he hasn't
1257
01:02:11.969 --> 01:02:15.380
seen very many movies. And then we talk about it.
1258
01:02:16.090 --> 01:02:18.369
And that's as simple as it sounds. That's pretty much
1259
01:02:18.389 --> 01:02:18.760
what it is.
1260
01:02:19.539 --> 01:02:21.449
It's a good way for me to catch up on
1261
01:02:21.590 --> 01:02:25.570
classic movies that I should have seen, and anybody who
1262
01:02:25.610 --> 01:02:28.710
listens will go, how has he not seen that show,
1263
01:02:29.269 --> 01:02:30.409
that movie?
1264
01:02:30.429 --> 01:02:33.820
Because a lot of them are older movies. We've done
1265
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:37.639
two newer ones, but we could probably do a dozen
1266
01:02:38.159 --> 01:02:41.380
over the holidays because a lot of the most beloved
1267
01:02:41.480 --> 01:02:45.630
classic holiday films like Miracle on 34th Street, It's a
1268
01:02:45.690 --> 01:02:47.889
Wonderful Life, I think at one point I said to him,
1269
01:02:47.909 --> 01:02:49.840
how the hell do you celebrate Christmas if you haven't
1270
01:02:49.860 --> 01:02:50.900
seen movies like that?
1271
01:02:51.500 --> 01:02:52.619
So, so it's a real mix.
1272
01:02:52.659 --> 01:02:55.579
It's a mix of genres and, um, we're always like
1273
01:02:55.659 --> 01:02:57.699
shit talking each other. So, you know, if you like
1274
01:02:57.719 --> 01:03:00.030
to listen to people pick at each other and poke
1275
01:03:00.070 --> 01:03:01.650
fun at each other, it's good for that too.
1276
01:03:02.369 --> 01:03:05.050
And a Christmas story is about the only Christmas movie
1277
01:03:05.090 --> 01:03:09.070
I've seen, but we also talked about your podcast on
1278
01:03:09.130 --> 01:03:10.909
the episode about the conjuring.
1279
01:03:11.329 --> 01:03:14.159
I heard that, um, was very happy about that because,
1280
01:03:15.320 --> 01:03:17.980
It's cool the way that you situate that show out
1281
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:21.980
because it is you watching a movie you haven't seen
1282
01:03:22.019 --> 01:03:24.570
that Dina loves. But then at the same time, you
1283
01:03:24.610 --> 01:03:28.210
kind of break it down almost not scene by scene,
1284
01:03:28.250 --> 01:03:30.969
but section by section. So you kind of go in
1285
01:03:30.989 --> 01:03:33.889
chronological order of the movie and you talk about what
1286
01:03:33.909 --> 01:03:36.320
you liked, what you didn't like, what was believable, what
1287
01:03:36.360 --> 01:03:39.159
was not believable. So it really is a cool show
1288
01:03:39.659 --> 01:03:41.880
in the fact that it is like a review, but
1289
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:44.079
there's also the nitpicking and stuff. That's what I like
1290
01:03:44.119 --> 01:03:44.360
about it.
1291
01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:49.500
We should have you and Tracy on sometime. We'll have
1292
01:03:49.539 --> 01:03:51.840
to find something that Tracy loves that you haven't seen.
1293
01:03:52.059 --> 01:03:54.070
You know, you guys come on Educating Jeremy.
1294
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:58.030
Well, if he hasn't seen it, I probably haven't either.
1295
01:03:58.289 --> 01:04:00.750
I am more like Jeremy than you would realize. The
1296
01:04:00.849 --> 01:04:04.650
movies that I have not seen that everybody's seen, I've
1297
01:04:04.690 --> 01:04:08.030
not seen Goodfellas. I've not seen Godfather.
1298
01:04:08.260 --> 01:04:08.760
Oh, my God.
1299
01:04:08.780 --> 01:04:09.139
What?
1300
01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:11.500
Any of the Godfathers, I've not seen.
1301
01:04:11.619 --> 01:04:12.400
Oh, my God.
1302
01:04:13.699 --> 01:04:15.400
I've not seen Reservoir Dogs.
1303
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:16.380
Oh, my God.
1304
01:04:16.420 --> 01:04:17.300
That's such a good movie.
1305
01:04:17.320 --> 01:04:18.079
Oh, my God.
1306
01:04:18.139 --> 01:04:21.340
Dude, if I'm freaking out about movies you haven't seen,
1307
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:22.679
that's bad.
1308
01:04:22.900 --> 01:04:26.190
Yeah, there's a bunch of them like that I haven't
1309
01:04:26.250 --> 01:04:28.449
seen that people are like, how in the world have
1310
01:04:28.510 --> 01:04:30.170
you not seen that movie?
1311
01:04:30.670 --> 01:04:35.690
Reservoir Dogs, man. There's a scene in there where Michael
1312
01:04:35.730 --> 01:04:40.380
Madsen is... torturing this dude and he's dancing to Stuck
1313
01:04:40.420 --> 01:04:42.460
in the Middle with you while he's doing it. It's
1314
01:04:42.619 --> 01:04:46.320
just such a great movie, man. And the cast in
1315
01:04:46.340 --> 01:04:53.440
that movie, Harvey Keitel, Steve Buscemi, Tim Roth, Michael Madsen. Well,
1316
01:04:53.960 --> 01:04:57.380
you can forget about Michael Madsen because he's a shitty actor.
1317
01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:00.880
I like Michael Madsen. He's a good actor.
1318
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:02.639
Well, to each their own, I guess.
1319
01:05:03.460 --> 01:05:05.260
Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You might have to edit
1320
01:05:05.300 --> 01:05:05.570
that out.
1321
01:05:06.380 --> 01:05:08.920
I didn't edit it the other four times you said it.
1322
01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:12.840
That's pretty much how Educating Jeremy goes.
1323
01:05:12.900 --> 01:05:15.840
That pretty much is a nice little snippet of exactly
1324
01:05:15.880 --> 01:05:19.760
how that show goes. Now, obviously, you both have great
1325
01:05:19.820 --> 01:05:25.869
shows separately with Twisted Philly and podcasts we listen to.
1326
01:05:26.730 --> 01:05:28.530
We're not going to touch a ton on those because
1327
01:05:28.590 --> 01:05:31.409
I think most of our listeners already listen to those shows.
1328
01:05:32.139 --> 01:05:34.179
But what I do want to touch on is another
1329
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:38.019
venture that we're all involved with. You two guys have
1330
01:05:38.119 --> 01:05:40.880
taken the lead on Setting Up, which is the Potter
1331
01:05:40.900 --> 01:05:44.449
and Love Podcast Festival, August 10th to the 12th, that
1332
01:05:44.510 --> 01:05:48.389
we promo on this show almost every week now. Tracy
1333
01:05:48.409 --> 01:05:50.230
and I are so excited to be a part of this,
1334
01:05:50.289 --> 01:05:52.769
and we keep adding bigger shows every time you turn around.
1335
01:05:52.789 --> 01:05:55.869
Jim Harreld's now a part of this, which is phenomenal.
1336
01:05:55.929 --> 01:05:56.300
We've got.
1337
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:01.019
Forrest from Astonishing Legends, who's going to be there. And
1338
01:06:01.059 --> 01:06:03.960
the list just keeps getting bigger. Take a few seconds
1339
01:06:03.980 --> 01:06:06.900
real quick to give us a little update on where
1340
01:06:06.920 --> 01:06:07.739
we're at on Potter and Love.
1341
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:08.800
Babe, do you want to start?
1342
01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:12.750
I mean, this really was birthed from the PWLT community.
1343
01:06:13.710 --> 01:06:17.929
Well, it started because just over a year ago, I
1344
01:06:17.969 --> 01:06:20.309
went into the group. Everybody was kind of getting amped
1345
01:06:20.389 --> 01:06:24.030
up about CrimeCon, but not everybody's into true crime. And
1346
01:06:24.050 --> 01:06:27.000
I was kind of looking around going, we've got Podcasts
1347
01:06:27.039 --> 01:06:32.639
from every genre in this group. Literally every genre. And
1348
01:06:32.659 --> 01:06:35.780
I'm like, dude, we got 5,600 members in here. We
1349
01:06:35.820 --> 01:06:40.949
could start our own podcast convention. And immediately, Dina and
1350
01:06:40.989 --> 01:06:43.389
a couple others were like, done. We're doing it.
1351
01:06:43.730 --> 01:06:44.690
Because that's how we roll.
1352
01:06:46.010 --> 01:06:49.559
So... And it's kind of taken off from there. So
1353
01:06:49.599 --> 01:06:53.010
now it's a real deal. It's going to be in
1354
01:06:53.050 --> 01:06:56.190
New Orleans in August. And, you know, I hear people
1355
01:06:56.230 --> 01:07:00.789
say sometimes, New Orleans, August, really? And I'm here to
1356
01:07:00.829 --> 01:07:03.409
tell you, as a New Orleans native, if it isn't
1357
01:07:03.530 --> 01:07:05.829
hot when you go to New Orleans, then you have
1358
01:07:05.869 --> 01:07:12.050
not visited New Orleans. Besides that, the majority of the time.
1359
01:07:12.090 --> 01:07:14.769
People are going to be in the convention watching shows.
1360
01:07:14.809 --> 01:07:18.710
We've got this fantastic hotel. It's got a rooftop pool.
1361
01:07:19.289 --> 01:07:22.070
I can't wait. I am so excited about this thing.
1362
01:07:22.530 --> 01:07:24.570
And the big news that we had this week is
1363
01:07:24.699 --> 01:07:29.239
we released the schedule. We have got an unbelievably packed
1364
01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:33.440
two and a half days of incredible events and sessions
1365
01:07:33.519 --> 01:07:36.539
and live shows. As Jeremy said, it's really, I call
1366
01:07:36.579 --> 01:07:40.889
it genre agnostic because It's any podcast genre you could
1367
01:07:40.989 --> 01:07:46.000
possibly consider. There's history, there's paranormal, there's movies and pop culture.
1368
01:07:46.380 --> 01:07:49.000
We have Margo from Fit Bottom Girls is going to
1369
01:07:49.019 --> 01:07:51.440
be doing some fitness on Saturday morning. So if people
1370
01:07:51.480 --> 01:07:53.480
go out on Friday night and get a little hungover,
1371
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.340
we're going to have yoga and fitness with Fit Bottom
1372
01:07:56.360 --> 01:08:02.139
Girls Saturday morning. There is diversity podcasting panels. There's true crime.
1373
01:08:02.280 --> 01:08:04.989
There's so many different types of shows that are going
1374
01:08:05.010 --> 01:08:08.150
to be there. And so there's really something for everybody.
1375
01:08:08.670 --> 01:08:11.409
And as you mentioned, Jerry, we just announced Forrest from
1376
01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:13.349
Astonishing Legends and Jim Harreld.
1377
01:08:14.010 --> 01:08:15.769
The Sofa King podcast is going to be there.
1378
01:08:15.809 --> 01:08:19.630
We've got Juliet Miranda, former rock journalist and host of
1379
01:08:19.729 --> 01:08:20.600
The Unwritable Rant.
1380
01:08:21.489 --> 01:08:23.979
Generation Y, the peripheral.
1381
01:08:24.600 --> 01:08:27.260
So it's a big mix of shows, and it's a
1382
01:08:27.279 --> 01:08:28.880
little less than three months away.
1383
01:08:28.899 --> 01:08:32.560
And I would just encourage folks to follow Podern Love.
1384
01:08:32.600 --> 01:08:37.359
That's P-O-D-E-R-N. L-O-V-E, on Facebook and Twitter. That's where you're
1385
01:08:37.380 --> 01:08:40.119
going to get all the latest updates. We are constantly
1386
01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:42.659
sharing information every day throughout the day.
1387
01:08:43.229 --> 01:08:44.609
So follow us on social media.
1388
01:08:44.649 --> 01:08:49.229
And our website where you can get tickets is www.podern.love.
1389
01:08:49.729 --> 01:08:53.170
One more quick thing. I'm so excited about it. We
1390
01:08:53.210 --> 01:08:56.930
were down at the hotel. Was that March, babe? I
1391
01:08:56.949 --> 01:09:02.100
think she just fell over. We were down at the hotel.
1392
01:09:02.119 --> 01:09:05.979
You might edit that part out. We were down at
1393
01:09:06.020 --> 01:09:11.380
the hotel in March, I think it was. And it
1394
01:09:11.479 --> 01:09:15.649
is so cool because it's a smaller hotel. We could
1395
01:09:15.689 --> 01:09:19.460
have gone for one of these huge massive hotels and
1396
01:09:19.479 --> 01:09:23.380
they are around there but this hotel when we're talking
1397
01:09:23.420 --> 01:09:25.899
to them they're like we're the perfect size that if
1398
01:09:26.239 --> 01:09:30.550
you want you could fill this hotel with nothing but
1399
01:09:30.590 --> 01:09:34.510
podcast listeners and podcast hosts and i was like that's
1400
01:09:34.569 --> 01:09:38.859
perfect that's exactly what i want it's just the hotel
1401
01:09:39.140 --> 01:09:43.319
to be like spring break for podcast listeners you know
1402
01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:48.560
and it's two blocks from the French Quarter. So you
1403
01:09:48.779 --> 01:09:51.500
walk out the front door, you take a left, five minutes,
1404
01:09:51.539 --> 01:09:54.420
you're in the French Quarter. It's going to be amazing.
1405
01:09:55.460 --> 01:09:56.899
Yeah, and there are limited tickets.
1406
01:09:56.939 --> 01:10:00.409
So to Jeremy's point, once we hit capacity for the hotel,
1407
01:10:00.850 --> 01:10:03.430
we have to cut off ticket sales. So I would
1408
01:10:03.449 --> 01:10:05.750
encourage folks, you know, if you're thinking about going, if
1409
01:10:05.770 --> 01:10:09.029
you're on the fence, get off that fence, buy your ticket.
1410
01:10:09.090 --> 01:10:11.430
You definitely don't want to miss this. This is, you know,
1411
01:10:11.470 --> 01:10:13.869
the very first Potter and Love convention.
1412
01:10:13.909 --> 01:10:14.250
This is it.
1413
01:10:14.270 --> 01:10:15.890
There's never going to be a first again. There's going
1414
01:10:15.909 --> 01:10:18.670
to be more But this is the first one. And
1415
01:10:18.689 --> 01:10:20.859
I don't know, I'm seriously excited about that.
1416
01:10:20.880 --> 01:10:23.600
I love the idea that this is the inaugural one.
1417
01:10:23.619 --> 01:10:26.800
You know, like the presenters, the attendees, everybody can say, like,
1418
01:10:26.960 --> 01:10:28.380
I was at the very first one.
1419
01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:30.619
And I think that's pretty cool.
1420
01:10:31.060 --> 01:10:33.399
I think it is, too. And I'll give you one
1421
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:38.329
more quick little insider bit. Between now and June 1st,
1422
01:10:38.750 --> 01:10:42.789
if you use the code PWLT for podcasts we listen
1423
01:10:42.810 --> 01:10:46.689
to at checkout.com, you're going to get 20% off your tickets.
1424
01:10:47.789 --> 01:10:52.770
And I also suggest following us on Instagram because there
1425
01:10:52.789 --> 01:10:54.979
might be some surprises coming that way, too.
1426
01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:58.270
Look at you giving away all the secrets and the discounts.
1427
01:10:58.680 --> 01:11:00.140
Yeah, that's a lot better than the 10% I was
1428
01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:01.300
going to give them, so yeah.
1429
01:11:03.060 --> 01:11:07.439
Well, all the participating podcasts have a 10% discount. This
1430
01:11:07.500 --> 01:11:11.380
is a special discount for PWL team members, and I
1431
01:11:11.420 --> 01:11:16.000
would say for Hillbilly... Horror Story podcast listeners, too. Like
1432
01:11:16.020 --> 01:11:18.039
Jeremy said, only good through June 1st.
1433
01:11:18.420 --> 01:11:22.119
Now, your 10% ticket's going to keep going, or 10% code,
1434
01:11:22.159 --> 01:11:25.479
that's going to keep going until we hit capacity. It's
1435
01:11:25.500 --> 01:11:28.600
just a real quick, limited time thing. I honestly did
1436
01:11:28.640 --> 01:11:30.680
not think, and I'm sorry if I stepped on your
1437
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:32.939
toes with that 20% code, man.
1438
01:11:33.159 --> 01:11:35.810
No, no, not at all. I'm like you guys. I
1439
01:11:35.989 --> 01:11:38.909
just want to get as many people out there as possible,
1440
01:11:39.069 --> 01:11:41.829
and if we can save them a few extra dollars
1441
01:11:41.890 --> 01:11:42.909
by doing that, I'm all for it.
1442
01:11:43.210 --> 01:11:44.250
Here's the other big difference.
1443
01:11:44.289 --> 01:11:45.369
It's going to be so fun, right?
1444
01:11:45.449 --> 01:11:47.170
Yeah, it is going to be a blast. And the
1445
01:11:47.210 --> 01:11:49.789
other big difference is we're actually feeding people. Now, I
1446
01:11:49.850 --> 01:11:52.409
can't say we're feeding like a full dinner, but a
1447
01:11:52.449 --> 01:11:54.390
lot of times I go to conventions personally.
1448
01:11:54.430 --> 01:11:55.069
I go for work.
1449
01:11:55.090 --> 01:11:57.310
I go to comic stuff. I go to podcast stuff.
1450
01:11:57.340 --> 01:11:59.449
I go to horror stuff. Ain't nobody giving me food.
1451
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:02.380
I can make a full dinner off of cheese puffs, babe.
1452
01:12:02.560 --> 01:12:04.520
Right? So that's one difference.
1453
01:12:04.859 --> 01:12:07.359
The other really cool thing is the hotel has given
1454
01:12:07.399 --> 01:12:09.060
us a sick rate.
1455
01:12:09.220 --> 01:12:12.779
Like the rate is nuts. $ 129 a night. for a
1456
01:12:12.800 --> 01:12:14.180
premier French Quarter hotel.
1457
01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:16.640
I don't think I told you. I went and checked
1458
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.850
their regular website. That's like $ 100 a night off.
1459
01:12:19.869 --> 01:12:22.510
I know. I know.
1460
01:12:22.529 --> 01:12:24.930
That's how excited they are about us coming in there.
1461
01:12:25.310 --> 01:12:28.949
What they told us is once we book a certain
1462
01:12:28.970 --> 01:12:31.710
number of rooms, they're going to drop the rate again.
1463
01:12:32.789 --> 01:12:34.630
If people have already booked their rooms, they don't have
1464
01:12:34.649 --> 01:12:38.350
to worry because they'll credit Those reservations, the difference.
1465
01:12:38.050 --> 01:12:40.569
Between the $ 129 and whatever they drop it to again.
1466
01:12:40.850 --> 01:12:43.939
So it's possible that $ 129 a night could go down
1467
01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:46.180
from there, which is just ridiculous.
1468
01:12:46.380 --> 01:12:48.439
There's no way you're getting a better rate on a
1469
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:50.640
room than a French Quarter.
1470
01:12:51.079 --> 01:12:52.640
They're taking such good care of us.
1471
01:12:52.840 --> 01:12:56.569
And the time that we spent there in January, not March,
1472
01:12:56.590 --> 01:13:01.109
it was exceptional. The service that we got was absolutely exceptional.
1473
01:13:01.149 --> 01:13:04.109
So I think end-to-end, it's going to be amazing.
1474
01:13:04.979 --> 01:13:07.760
Oh, in March, I was in Philadelphia. That's right.
1475
01:13:08.319 --> 01:13:10.050
Oh, imagine that you were out here with me.
1476
01:13:11.630 --> 01:13:13.630
So Tracy and I actually get to be a part
1477
01:13:13.789 --> 01:13:16.869
of basically every day. I know we're in one of
1478
01:13:16.909 --> 01:13:21.779
the very first panels on Friday, which is the first
1479
01:13:21.819 --> 01:13:25.380
day of the event. And I think that's the paranormal panel.
1480
01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:30.460
And then I get to introduce Forrest, which is one
1481
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:33.359
of my podcast idols. So I'm excited about that for
1482
01:13:33.430 --> 01:13:36.850
when he does his little live event. And then we've
1483
01:13:36.890 --> 01:13:39.090
got a Dark Myths panel that Tracy and I are
1484
01:13:39.170 --> 01:13:41.649
part of. And then we get to do a live
1485
01:13:41.710 --> 01:13:44.170
show that's one of the last events of the closing
1486
01:13:44.229 --> 01:13:47.329
on Sunday. So we're going to be all over this thing.
1487
01:13:47.369 --> 01:13:51.350
So anybody listening who, for God knows why, would want
1488
01:13:51.369 --> 01:13:54.229
to see more of us, you could get basically four
1489
01:13:54.270 --> 01:13:56.310
different events of us at the festival.
1490
01:13:56.630 --> 01:14:00.220
Hey, man, I've seen Your live show. I was in Louisville.
1491
01:14:00.380 --> 01:14:03.140
Dina was there too. Don't try to bullshit, man. You
1492
01:14:03.680 --> 01:14:06.779
put on a good live show. So if any of
1493
01:14:06.840 --> 01:14:11.119
your listeners haven't seen your live show, they love the podcast.
1494
01:14:11.140 --> 01:14:12.300
They're going to love that too.
1495
01:14:13.180 --> 01:14:13.319
Yep.
1496
01:14:13.399 --> 01:14:15.800
And we got, I'm not going to tell people what
1497
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:17.979
our story is, but it's going to be New Orleans related.
1498
01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:20.180
So we've already picked out the story we're going to do.
1499
01:14:21.039 --> 01:14:23.779
And we'll just say it involves a couple of brothers
1500
01:14:23.850 --> 01:14:27.970
who were suspected vampires. And anybody who's... who knows New
1501
01:14:28.029 --> 01:14:29.310
Orleans and be able to figure it out.
1502
01:14:29.609 --> 01:14:30.510
I'm not going to say what it is.
1503
01:14:30.789 --> 01:14:32.510
Well, and that's one of the reasons why one of
1504
01:14:32.550 --> 01:14:35.229
the first panels that we have when the convention kicks
1505
01:14:35.310 --> 01:14:39.869
off is paranormal because New Orleans is such a renowned
1506
01:14:40.149 --> 01:14:42.970
city for history and ghost stories. And, you know, I
1507
01:14:42.970 --> 01:14:44.810
think that the two always go hand in hand, right?
1508
01:14:44.850 --> 01:14:47.949
You can't talk about the haunting without the history. So
1509
01:14:48.510 --> 01:14:50.869
we figured we'd kick it off and really set the
1510
01:14:50.909 --> 01:14:53.130
tone for what the city is. And I'm excited you're
1511
01:14:53.149 --> 01:14:54.850
going to be a part of all those sessions.
1512
01:14:55.550 --> 01:14:58.489
So since that's the perfect segue as to what we're doing,
1513
01:14:58.930 --> 01:15:00.489
you know, we want to talk a little bit about
1514
01:15:00.689 --> 01:15:02.569
what you guys had going on, especially with Potter and Love.
1515
01:15:03.109 --> 01:15:05.510
But we brought you guys on to tell us some
1516
01:15:05.550 --> 01:15:10.229
ghost stories. And I don't care who starts. I know
1517
01:15:10.310 --> 01:15:15.170
Jeremy's got a boatload from his days of living in
1518
01:15:15.229 --> 01:15:19.170
New Orleans. And, well, he's lived in Wyoming. So, my God,
1519
01:15:19.310 --> 01:15:21.090
there can't be anything scarier than that.
1520
01:15:21.109 --> 01:15:21.649
Yeah.
1521
01:15:23.420 --> 01:15:25.899
And Dina's got her fair share of stories too. So
1522
01:15:25.939 --> 01:15:27.640
which one of you want to pony up and go first?
1523
01:15:28.060 --> 01:15:29.020
Jeremy's going to go first.
1524
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:31.979
I'll go first. Where do you want me to start, man?
1525
01:15:32.159 --> 01:15:34.020
Let me give you a little background here, I guess.
1526
01:15:34.619 --> 01:15:39.050
My grandparents came over on both sides, came over from Ireland.
1527
01:15:39.149 --> 01:15:42.010
So I'm about as Irish as you could get without
1528
01:15:42.050 --> 01:15:44.670
being actually born in the mother country, if you will.
1529
01:15:45.229 --> 01:15:51.350
And my family is super superstitious. We have this history
1530
01:15:51.449 --> 01:15:54.170
of Having dreams that come true. And I know that
1531
01:15:54.329 --> 01:15:58.380
your listeners probably less so, but this is one of
1532
01:15:58.420 --> 01:16:01.140
those things you hesitate to tell people because they tend
1533
01:16:01.159 --> 01:16:04.779
to go, okay, this guy's full of shit.
1534
01:16:05.260 --> 01:16:07.460
What I do is when you tell me that you
1535
01:16:07.500 --> 01:16:08.760
had a dream, I'm always afraid.
1536
01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:09.850
Like, what was it about? What was it about? It
1537
01:16:09.930 --> 01:16:10.649
wasn't about me, was it?
1538
01:16:10.909 --> 01:16:13.850
Because I know you guys have all those fucking freaky
1539
01:16:13.909 --> 01:16:14.989
dreams that sometimes come true.
1540
01:16:15.350 --> 01:16:17.340
I don't want to say the wrong thing, so you
1541
01:16:17.380 --> 01:16:19.659
can feel free to bleep me out if you want.
1542
01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:21.300
No, you're good.
1543
01:16:21.579 --> 01:16:24.699
You're good. But I grew up having dreams that came true,
1544
01:16:24.840 --> 01:16:28.539
and I grew up experiencing things. And when I was
1545
01:16:28.600 --> 01:16:31.600
about 25 or so, I was talking to my mom
1546
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.479
about it, and I was like, this is really kind
1547
01:16:33.500 --> 01:16:36.659
of fucked up that, you know, these things keep happening
1548
01:16:36.699 --> 01:16:39.539
to me. And just out of the blue, she goes, well,
1549
01:16:39.739 --> 01:16:41.199
you know, I guess I should tell you that runs
1550
01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:44.029
in the family. I'm like, what do you mean? She's like,
1551
01:16:44.130 --> 01:16:47.029
oh yeah, I mean, it skipped me, but your grandmother
1552
01:16:47.069 --> 01:16:50.329
has dreams that come true. And she also feels things
1553
01:16:50.409 --> 01:16:53.609
and sees things. And I'm like, I'm 25, ma. You're
1554
01:16:53.649 --> 01:16:54.939
just now telling me this.
1555
01:16:54.960 --> 01:16:57.920
Well, it's just like diarrhea. It runs in your genes.
1556
01:17:03.260 --> 01:17:08.560
Not this week, but you're right. So my earliest experience
1557
01:17:08.960 --> 01:17:13.729
that I can really remember that's Ghost-related, not dream-related. Dean
1558
01:17:13.750 --> 01:17:16.800
has heard this story before, but when I was, I
1559
01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:20.859
don't know, summer between fourth and fifth grade, we were moving,
1560
01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:24.460
actually leaving Louisiana and going to Mississippi, but we were
1561
01:17:24.520 --> 01:17:28.439
only moving about 20, 30 miles away. And my brother
1562
01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:31.890
and I were staying at my best friend's house, and
1563
01:17:31.930 --> 01:17:34.649
we were so close that they lived directly behind us,
1564
01:17:35.229 --> 01:17:39.460
and we had cut a gate into... the fence between
1565
01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:41.560
the houses. And we just, you know, walk into each
1566
01:17:41.600 --> 01:17:46.619
other's back doors. Hey, what's up? And it's late at night. There's, Me,
1567
01:17:46.720 --> 01:17:51.239
my older brother, my best friend, all staying in his bedroom.
1568
01:17:51.520 --> 01:17:54.359
And as boys tend to do, we're up late at night.
1569
01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:59.090
We're talking, probably driving his parents insane because we're laughing
1570
01:17:59.100 --> 01:18:02.430
and giggling and stuff. And we start getting hungry. So
1571
01:18:02.449 --> 01:18:04.609
we're like, hey, you know what? Let's go to the kitchen.
1572
01:18:04.649 --> 01:18:06.850
We'll get a little snack. No big deal. The way
1573
01:18:06.869 --> 01:18:09.289
this guy's house was set up, you walk out of
1574
01:18:09.350 --> 01:18:13.020
his bedroom, you're in a hallway and that's running left
1575
01:18:13.039 --> 01:18:16.479
to right. You take a right and you, five steps
1576
01:18:16.600 --> 01:18:20.260
or so, you enter into the living room. And diagonally
1577
01:18:20.359 --> 01:18:23.100
from where that hall is to the opposite corner, you
1578
01:18:23.479 --> 01:18:27.119
would walk through into the kitchen. Right next to that
1579
01:18:27.199 --> 01:18:31.359
entrance is a recliner. We come out of the hallway
1580
01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:35.260
and step into the living room. My brother and my
1581
01:18:35.859 --> 01:18:40.000
best friend are still kind of whispering back and forth
1582
01:18:40.060 --> 01:18:43.819
and doing their thing. Let's go keep Chips, let's get this.
1583
01:18:44.270 --> 01:18:46.510
I step into the room and I almost have a
1584
01:18:46.529 --> 01:18:51.479
heart attack because there's a man. sitting in that recliner
1585
01:18:51.840 --> 01:18:55.100
and he's looking at me. He's dressed to the nines
1586
01:18:55.680 --> 01:19:00.979
and his hair slicked back, just perfectly coiffed, perfect suit,
1587
01:19:01.279 --> 01:19:04.680
shine shoes. I can remember this like it was yesterday.
1588
01:19:04.939 --> 01:19:06.970
And I could see the guy and I mean, he
1589
01:19:07.010 --> 01:19:09.689
was rock solid to me. And he looks at me
1590
01:19:09.750 --> 01:19:14.149
with this look, and it's this, you know me, and
1591
01:19:14.229 --> 01:19:17.800
I know you, and you know who's in charge here.
1592
01:19:18.109 --> 01:19:20.359
It was that kind of look. And he gives me
1593
01:19:20.420 --> 01:19:23.880
this kind of grin, just one corner of his mouth,
1594
01:19:24.119 --> 01:19:27.840
smirk kind of, you know what's up, kind of look.
1595
01:19:28.159 --> 01:19:31.159
And it scared me more than I could possibly tell you.
1596
01:19:31.760 --> 01:19:37.060
It went straight through my soul when I saw this guy.
1597
01:19:37.239 --> 01:19:39.460
And my brother and my best friend didn't see him.
1598
01:19:39.800 --> 01:19:42.960
I freaked the fuck out, and I ran back into
1599
01:19:42.979 --> 01:19:45.300
the bedroom. And they went about their business like it
1600
01:19:45.340 --> 01:19:47.800
was no big deal. And I'll tell you, I've seen
1601
01:19:47.819 --> 01:19:53.060
a lot of things. Dina knows. I've told her most
1602
01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:56.569
of it. I've seen a lot of things, and I've
1603
01:19:56.710 --> 01:20:00.789
felt a lot of things, but I've never felt anything
1604
01:20:00.909 --> 01:20:05.380
like this. It wasn't seeing an apparition, and it wasn't
1605
01:20:05.880 --> 01:20:10.380
a mist. It did not have the feel of some
1606
01:20:10.819 --> 01:20:16.029
soulless thing that's just there. This was a being with
1607
01:20:16.529 --> 01:20:21.289
intent and desire. It was powerful. Now, at the time,
1608
01:20:21.470 --> 01:20:25.109
all I knew was this thing is real. It knows me.
1609
01:20:25.470 --> 01:20:29.329
And it scares the shit out of me. Like nothing
1610
01:20:29.409 --> 01:20:32.789
in my young life at that point had ever scared me.
1611
01:20:32.970 --> 01:20:37.989
But now, looking back on it, it scares me even
1612
01:20:38.050 --> 01:20:40.970
worse than that. Because in all the things I've felt
1613
01:20:41.029 --> 01:20:45.020
and experienced and seen, there's never been anything like it.
1614
01:20:45.590 --> 01:20:48.920
It was... I'm telling you, it was a being. It
1615
01:20:48.979 --> 01:20:52.739
was not my imagination. And the look it gave me,
1616
01:20:52.779 --> 01:20:56.210
just that look of, you know me, and I know you,
1617
01:20:56.609 --> 01:20:58.949
and you know who's really in charge here, was the
1618
01:20:59.010 --> 01:21:01.949
most terrifying thing I had ever seen at that point.
1619
01:21:02.229 --> 01:21:04.989
So any idea on who that was, as you find
1620
01:21:05.069 --> 01:21:07.649
out later in life, stumble across an old photo, anything
1621
01:21:07.689 --> 01:21:08.029
like that?
1622
01:21:08.390 --> 01:21:12.149
I don't know. I haven't, I've never stumbled across an
1623
01:21:12.189 --> 01:21:17.029
old photo. I've, never honestly gone looking because I don't
1624
01:21:17.710 --> 01:21:20.029
I don't know if I want to know but you
1625
01:21:20.060 --> 01:21:21.699
know Dean has asked me do you think it was
1626
01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:25.739
a demon and I don't know I honestly when I
1627
01:21:25.779 --> 01:21:28.760
think of demon I think of something a little more
1628
01:21:28.819 --> 01:21:32.680
chaotic and something a little more out of control and
1629
01:21:32.720 --> 01:21:35.939
maybe that was another scary thing about this dude is
1630
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:39.569
that he was a hundred percent in control he was
1631
01:21:39.630 --> 01:21:42.850
there I mean This is one of those things, like
1632
01:21:42.909 --> 01:21:45.050
I said, you tell people and they're like, you're out
1633
01:21:45.090 --> 01:21:48.069
of your fucking mind. You're nuts. You're whatever. You're full
1634
01:21:48.090 --> 01:21:51.149
of shit. But I'm telling you, he was there. And
1635
01:21:51.270 --> 01:21:55.109
the only reason, I firmly believe, the only reason that
1636
01:21:55.359 --> 01:21:57.760
my brother and my friend didn't see him is because
1637
01:21:57.800 --> 01:21:58.779
he didn't want them to.
1638
01:21:58.800 --> 01:22:02.079
That's like some Randall Flagg shit right there. Y'all know
1639
01:22:02.100 --> 01:22:03.699
who Randall Flagg is.
1640
01:22:04.300 --> 01:22:07.319
So I'm 45 years old. I do know who Randall
1641
01:22:07.340 --> 01:22:08.640
Flagg is, by the way, baby.
1642
01:22:08.659 --> 01:22:08.920
Yeah.
1643
01:22:10.670 --> 01:22:14.600
But I'm 45 years old. And at the time, I
1644
01:22:15.020 --> 01:22:19.520
was between fourth and fifth grade. This was pre-Angel Heart.
1645
01:22:19.640 --> 01:22:22.470
But that's who it reminded me of. When I saw
1646
01:22:22.510 --> 01:22:25.829
that movie later on, I was like, holy shit. Because
1647
01:22:26.449 --> 01:22:29.350
it looked... In a lot of ways, it was very
1648
01:22:29.390 --> 01:22:32.939
similar to Robert De Niro in that movie, except this
1649
01:22:32.979 --> 01:22:37.020
guy was very clean cut. I don't know if that's
1650
01:22:37.039 --> 01:22:40.899
the right word, but there was nothing, not a speck
1651
01:22:41.020 --> 01:22:43.199
out of place. It was almost too perfect.
1652
01:22:44.000 --> 01:22:46.720
Did you ever ask your friend if they had an
1653
01:22:46.840 --> 01:22:50.039
uncle or his grandfather maybe passed away in the house?
1654
01:22:50.229 --> 01:22:52.359
Or did you ask your friend or his family about it?
1655
01:22:52.670 --> 01:22:56.149
I didn't because, for one, I was young. But they
1656
01:22:56.189 --> 01:22:59.369
also moved into that house after we were already living
1657
01:22:59.409 --> 01:23:02.409
in our house. Because, see, we were the first house
1658
01:23:02.770 --> 01:23:05.069
in that neighborhood. And they built the rest of the
1659
01:23:05.109 --> 01:23:06.560
neighborhood after we had moved in.
1660
01:23:07.000 --> 01:23:08.539
So it's new construction, so it's not like it had
1661
01:23:08.560 --> 01:23:09.260
much of a history.
1662
01:23:09.520 --> 01:23:13.159
Right. I had the distinct impression. It was there for me.
1663
01:23:14.199 --> 01:23:16.460
It wasn't that it was there because this is, hey,
1664
01:23:16.479 --> 01:23:18.239
this is the place I haunt. This is where, this
1665
01:23:18.260 --> 01:23:20.579
is my digs, man. You know, what are you doing
1666
01:23:20.600 --> 01:23:24.060
in my house? It wasn't like that. It was like,
1667
01:23:24.880 --> 01:23:27.560
I'm here for you. I'm here to show you that
1668
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:28.659
I know about you.
1669
01:23:29.060 --> 01:23:31.479
Well, he's not welcome here in Philly. You are, but
1670
01:23:31.579 --> 01:23:33.689
he's not. I'm just putting that out into the universe.
1671
01:23:34.050 --> 01:23:37.560
He sounds a lot to me like Alec Baldwin and
1672
01:23:37.600 --> 01:23:40.779
Glen Gary Glen Ross. That's what I'm picturing in my head.
1673
01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:43.539
Did he say anything at all about Coffee is for Closers?
1674
01:23:43.800 --> 01:23:45.000
Because I'm just curious.
1675
01:23:45.979 --> 01:23:49.109
No, he did not say anything about Coffee is for Closers.
1676
01:23:49.149 --> 01:23:51.270
That's a great movie, by the way. Yes, it is.
1677
01:23:51.590 --> 01:23:52.579
I'm surprised you've seen it.
1678
01:23:52.789 --> 01:23:55.510
I have seen it, thank you, and fuck right off.
1679
01:23:59.109 --> 01:24:01.229
Another big one that I haven't seen, Tombstone.
1680
01:24:01.770 --> 01:24:04.189
Oh, that's a good movie.
1681
01:24:04.449 --> 01:24:06.989
You know, it was so tough when that movie came out.
1682
01:24:07.409 --> 01:24:09.250
It came out like right around the same time that
1683
01:24:09.289 --> 01:24:12.449
Wyatt Earp came out. And they were both such good films,
1684
01:24:12.510 --> 01:24:15.760
although one just seemed a bit more focused on history
1685
01:24:15.819 --> 01:24:17.100
and one was a bit more Hollywood.
1686
01:24:17.119 --> 01:24:19.960
But Val Kilmer was amazing.
1687
01:24:20.100 --> 01:24:21.460
I'll be your Huckleberry.
1688
01:24:22.180 --> 01:24:22.659
It was amazing.
1689
01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:25.479
That was such a good. Yeah, I was going to
1690
01:24:25.500 --> 01:24:28.270
say the same thing. Val Kilmer in that movie. It
1691
01:24:28.310 --> 01:24:29.090
was perfect.
1692
01:24:29.550 --> 01:24:30.329
And now it looks like.
1693
01:24:30.409 --> 01:24:31.210
I'll be your Huckleberry.
1694
01:24:31.649 --> 01:24:33.550
Now it looks like he ate Wyatt Earp.
1695
01:24:33.810 --> 01:24:37.649
I don't care. He still looks good to me. That's
1696
01:24:37.710 --> 01:24:37.890
all right.
1697
01:24:37.909 --> 01:24:39.670
He's got to be three times the size he was
1698
01:24:39.689 --> 01:24:40.409
with that baby.
1699
01:24:41.390 --> 01:24:42.949
Yeah, I'd like to see him fit in that cockpit
1700
01:24:43.010 --> 01:24:43.869
now in Top Guns.
1701
01:24:46.770 --> 01:24:48.819
I feel the need, the need for speed.
1702
01:24:49.479 --> 01:24:52.100
I feel the need, the need for Twinkies.
1703
01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:57.359
That's a screwed up story, to say the least. And
1704
01:24:57.399 --> 01:25:02.100
it'll take a few seconds for me to... completely process
1705
01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:04.699
how I would feel in that situation. But I got
1706
01:25:04.760 --> 01:25:07.729
a feeling Dina's probably got a story that might be
1707
01:25:07.739 --> 01:25:09.489
able to rival it. Am I right or am I wrong?
1708
01:25:10.170 --> 01:25:10.510
I don't know.
1709
01:25:10.609 --> 01:25:14.289
I don't think it'll rival it because I, so my
1710
01:25:14.350 --> 01:25:17.569
experiences with the paranormal, I've never had as many as
1711
01:25:17.630 --> 01:25:18.390
Jeremy has.
1712
01:25:19.109 --> 01:25:21.810
I'm going to start with something a little, a little lighter.
1713
01:25:23.130 --> 01:25:24.590
Cause I swear to God, I feel like I need
1714
01:25:24.609 --> 01:25:26.710
to recover from that, babe. You want a little You
1715
01:25:26.750 --> 01:25:28.890
shared a little bit more than you had before the
1716
01:25:28.949 --> 01:25:30.329
first time I heard that story.
1717
01:25:30.710 --> 01:25:31.560
I'm not going to lie.
1718
01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:34.760
I'm a little scared. I didn't tell that movie. That
1719
01:25:35.220 --> 01:25:41.130
movie had a little bit of Angel's Envy. I didn't
1720
01:25:41.149 --> 01:25:44.069
tell that story so that I could start it off
1721
01:25:44.149 --> 01:25:47.789
with the bomb. That was just the first experience for me.
1722
01:25:48.229 --> 01:25:48.449
Yeah.
1723
01:25:48.789 --> 01:25:52.260
And I've had lighter experiences. And as you know, from,
1724
01:25:52.449 --> 01:25:54.539
I think, being around me at Waverly, I've had some
1725
01:25:54.739 --> 01:25:55.899
darker experiences.
1726
01:25:56.180 --> 01:25:57.039
Yes, you have.
1727
01:25:57.159 --> 01:25:59.399
But anyway, your story, baby doll.
1728
01:25:59.680 --> 01:26:03.859
I'll start with something light. Actually, you know what?
1729
01:26:03.899 --> 01:26:05.779
Maybe I'll start with something even smaller than that, and
1730
01:26:05.859 --> 01:26:08.739
then I'll do this one. One of the strange things
1731
01:26:08.960 --> 01:26:12.069
that I found out, so where I grew up, one
1732
01:26:12.090 --> 01:26:14.430
of the houses I lived in, interestingly enough, was also
1733
01:26:14.510 --> 01:26:17.949
new construction. And We never had anything happen there. We
1734
01:26:17.989 --> 01:26:22.970
never had anything strange, paranormal, nothing. My grandmother passed away
1735
01:26:22.989 --> 01:26:25.369
when I was 14. She did not pass away in
1736
01:26:25.430 --> 01:26:27.069
our house, but she did live with us for a
1737
01:26:27.090 --> 01:26:31.229
while before she passed away. She got sick and we
1738
01:26:31.250 --> 01:26:34.340
had her move in with us and cared for her
1739
01:26:34.380 --> 01:26:36.659
until it got to the point where her doctors said
1740
01:26:36.960 --> 01:26:37.439
she needs treatment.
1741
01:26:37.770 --> 01:26:40.069
Full-time medical care, not full-time family care.
1742
01:26:40.329 --> 01:26:43.250
And I found out from my old neighbor that the
1743
01:26:43.329 --> 01:26:45.890
family that moved in after us, the house was haunted.
1744
01:26:45.970 --> 01:26:49.140
They had paranormal experts come out. They had a priest
1745
01:26:49.199 --> 01:26:51.979
come out. Not that it was necessarily malevolent, but they
1746
01:26:52.000 --> 01:26:55.800
were just really uncomfortable. And more often than not, they
1747
01:26:55.840 --> 01:26:57.640
said it was the ghost of an older woman. So
1748
01:26:57.680 --> 01:27:01.449
I often wondered if that would have been my grandmother,
1749
01:27:02.449 --> 01:27:04.229
although she never struck me as the kind of person.
1750
01:27:04.029 --> 01:27:06.500
That would linger. And she certainly... didn't linger.
1751
01:27:06.520 --> 01:27:08.380
I mean, we never felt her presence in the house,
1752
01:27:08.439 --> 01:27:10.619
but yeah, after we left, we heard a lot of
1753
01:27:10.659 --> 01:27:12.479
stories from my neighbors that the people that bought the
1754
01:27:12.520 --> 01:27:16.689
house were dealing with a haunting. So I'm going to
1755
01:27:16.729 --> 01:27:20.770
start with kind of a short, short story. One of
1756
01:27:21.050 --> 01:27:24.529
my ghost experiences goes back, not as far as Jeremy's,
1757
01:27:24.590 --> 01:27:28.000
but I'd say probably the early 90s. And it takes
1758
01:27:28.079 --> 01:27:30.319
place in a town, not even a town, it's a
1759
01:27:30.560 --> 01:27:35.720
little area of a town called Militia Hill. So literally,
1760
01:27:35.920 --> 01:27:38.779
it is a hill in a town called Plymouth Meeting,
1761
01:27:38.819 --> 01:27:41.710
which is in a suburb north of Philadelphia. And when
1762
01:27:41.729 --> 01:27:44.069
you hear the words Militia Hill, it might call to
1763
01:27:44.130 --> 01:27:48.569
mind imagery of the Revolutionary War and the Civil War,
1764
01:27:48.649 --> 01:27:50.189
and it absolutely should.
1765
01:27:50.930 --> 01:27:51.409
It was.
1766
01:27:51.960 --> 01:27:54.119
this hill that was in the middle of a V
1767
01:27:54.239 --> 01:27:56.189
two roads had been built on either side of it.
1768
01:27:56.899 --> 01:28:00.539
And at the center of that V was my ex-husband's
1769
01:28:00.619 --> 01:28:04.119
parents' house. And the house was at least 200 years old.
1770
01:28:04.159 --> 01:28:06.909
I think it might've been 250 years old or more.
1771
01:28:06.930 --> 01:28:09.329
It was, Oh my God, it was sold. It's incredible.
1772
01:28:10.050 --> 01:28:12.729
And it literally sat up on this hill and it
1773
01:28:12.770 --> 01:28:15.239
had retaining walls on either side in the front of it.
1774
01:28:15.750 --> 01:28:19.029
And then behind it was the rest of the property
1775
01:28:19.069 --> 01:28:23.100
was Hill. And so Militia Hill literally was on the
1776
01:28:23.159 --> 01:28:25.720
way to the Battle of Germantown. Troops would pass through
1777
01:28:25.760 --> 01:28:29.880
Militia from Germantown to Valley Forge, very historic area and
1778
01:28:29.899 --> 01:28:34.529
an area that was traversed by Revolutionary War soldiers and
1779
01:28:34.649 --> 01:28:38.989
Civil War soldiers. Where I live in suburban Philly, I'm
1780
01:28:39.050 --> 01:28:40.649
right near Valley Forge Park.
1781
01:28:41.029 --> 01:28:42.470
Literally, it's within walking distance.
1782
01:28:42.529 --> 01:28:46.220
So I've got so much history of America right around
1783
01:28:46.229 --> 01:28:48.220
where I live. So this is going back to probably
1784
01:28:48.239 --> 01:28:51.460
the early 90s. I was at my ex-husband's house, who
1785
01:28:51.479 --> 01:28:54.859
was my then boyfriend. And because the house was so old,
1786
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:58.199
even though it was super cool, it needed some work.
1787
01:28:58.810 --> 01:28:59.770
It didn't have a driveway.
1788
01:28:59.779 --> 01:29:03.210
It had like this tamped down or stamped down area
1789
01:29:03.289 --> 01:29:06.489
of the yard behind the house that was a gravel driveway.
1790
01:29:06.729 --> 01:29:10.710
And one night, my ex and I were outside just
1791
01:29:10.750 --> 01:29:13.890
kind of hanging out, talking, standing by his car.
1792
01:29:14.270 --> 01:29:17.430
And we heard footsteps on the gravel. And so.
1793
01:29:18.560 --> 01:29:20.560
Initially, I thought it was probably one of his friends.
1794
01:29:20.659 --> 01:29:22.920
He's a musician. A lot of his friends were musicians.
1795
01:29:22.960 --> 01:29:25.199
They kept strange hours, and they would just show up
1796
01:29:25.239 --> 01:29:27.510
any time of the day or night. So we both
1797
01:29:27.569 --> 01:29:30.430
turned around to look down the driveway, thinking one of
1798
01:29:30.470 --> 01:29:32.390
his buddies probably pulled up on the street and was
1799
01:29:32.430 --> 01:29:34.890
coming up the driveway, and there was nobody there. Now,
1800
01:29:35.250 --> 01:29:37.529
on the upper hill at the back of the property,
1801
01:29:37.569 --> 01:29:40.399
his father had installed a telephone pole. His father used
1802
01:29:40.420 --> 01:29:43.539
to work for Pico, and there was a giant floodlight
1803
01:29:43.859 --> 01:29:47.859
that was motion-activated. because the property was very dark and
1804
01:29:47.939 --> 01:29:51.380
there weren't streetlights nearby. So putting that up there was
1805
01:29:51.619 --> 01:29:53.819
definitely a safety measure if somebody was trying to get
1806
01:29:53.859 --> 01:29:57.119
on the property and cause some mischief. And as we
1807
01:29:57.159 --> 01:30:00.619
hear the footsteps, the floodlight kicks on and we see
1808
01:30:00.699 --> 01:30:04.470
a shadow moving across the side of the house. There's
1809
01:30:04.510 --> 01:30:07.869
nobody there casting the shadow. And based on the shape
1810
01:30:07.949 --> 01:30:10.489
of the shadow, it looked like it probably could have
1811
01:30:10.510 --> 01:30:14.130
been a Union soldier. And obviously shadows have no discernible features.
1812
01:30:14.170 --> 01:30:16.279
They don't have a face and it wasn't like a
1813
01:30:16.359 --> 01:30:19.020
creepy shadow person. It was literally a shadow you would
1814
01:30:19.060 --> 01:30:21.770
cast if you were walking in sunlight or walking under
1815
01:30:21.810 --> 01:30:24.130
a floodlight. And so we continue to hear the footsteps
1816
01:30:24.189 --> 01:30:27.930
on the gravel and we see this shadow move down
1817
01:30:27.970 --> 01:30:30.470
the side of the house until it moved past the house,
1818
01:30:30.609 --> 01:30:32.789
off the gravel and down the street.
1819
01:30:32.970 --> 01:30:37.069
So I start flipping out, right? And I'm cursing and
1820
01:30:37.100 --> 01:30:39.539
I'm like, holy crap, holy crap. Oh my God, did
1821
01:30:39.560 --> 01:30:40.520
you see that? Did you see that?
1822
01:30:40.800 --> 01:30:43.819
My ex-husband, again, my then boyfriend at the time, He
1823
01:30:44.680 --> 01:30:48.529
is probably one of the most even keel laid back
1824
01:30:48.590 --> 01:30:52.890
people you would ever want to meet. And so he's like, well,
1825
01:30:52.930 --> 01:30:56.890
you know, sweetheart, that's not surprising considering where the house
1826
01:30:57.170 --> 01:31:01.720
is and the history and, you know, the battles, like
1827
01:31:01.760 --> 01:31:06.659
it was just something expected and customary and very organic.
1828
01:31:07.079 --> 01:31:09.380
And I think growing up in that location for him,
1829
01:31:09.399 --> 01:31:12.840
you know, he'd mentioned times where family members had claims,
1830
01:31:12.880 --> 01:31:16.479
not necessarily experiences in their house, but more experiences around
1831
01:31:16.500 --> 01:31:18.890
the property and this enormous field that used to be
1832
01:31:18.930 --> 01:31:21.850
across the street. So he was never really the sort
1833
01:31:21.869 --> 01:31:24.850
of person that believed in ghosts, but it's very hard
1834
01:31:24.869 --> 01:31:28.039
to to not have at least an open mind when
1835
01:31:28.420 --> 01:31:30.760
you see something, when you see a shadow and you
1836
01:31:30.880 --> 01:31:33.779
hear it making noise on the ground, but there's no
1837
01:31:33.859 --> 01:31:36.340
body casting that shadow and you're not the only one
1838
01:31:36.399 --> 01:31:39.640
who sees it. So I'm standing there like, shit, that
1839
01:31:39.659 --> 01:31:41.619
was a ghost. We just saw a ghost.
1840
01:31:42.199 --> 01:31:46.470
And his response is like, well, you know, the Revolutionary.
1841
01:31:45.789 --> 01:31:49.090
War and the Civil War and where we live. And yeah,
1842
01:31:49.130 --> 01:31:51.529
those kind of things are going to happen. It was
1843
01:31:51.569 --> 01:31:53.779
just nothing like I'll take another beer.
1844
01:31:53.819 --> 01:31:54.260
Thanks.
1845
01:31:54.899 --> 01:31:58.239
It was like for him. So, you know, my experience, obviously,
1846
01:31:58.300 --> 01:32:03.439
was it wasn't scary. It was much more surprising and exciting.
1847
01:32:03.659 --> 01:32:06.439
And I think because and he and I talked about
1848
01:32:06.460 --> 01:32:09.539
it afterwards and the shadow definitely and it was it
1849
01:32:09.560 --> 01:32:11.779
was more that the head because the head looked like
1850
01:32:11.819 --> 01:32:15.560
it had that unmistakable shape to the cap on it
1851
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:19.359
of a Union soldier. So to me, it wasn't scary
1852
01:32:19.380 --> 01:32:21.239
at all because it just felt like, it felt like
1853
01:32:21.279 --> 01:32:23.640
a moment in time or a moment in history had
1854
01:32:23.680 --> 01:32:27.060
just punched through and come into present day.
1855
01:32:27.319 --> 01:32:30.180
And it walked on off the driveway and that was it.
1856
01:32:30.180 --> 01:32:33.659
You know, it's funny you talk about his nonchalant approach
1857
01:32:33.699 --> 01:32:36.359
to it. And that's the way I felt at Waverly.
1858
01:32:36.420 --> 01:32:39.659
I mean, to me, I mean, there wasn't one moment
1859
01:32:39.800 --> 01:32:43.729
in Waverly where I felt scared or weird or felt
1860
01:32:43.789 --> 01:32:46.670
like anxious I mean it was just like I was
1861
01:32:46.710 --> 01:32:49.180
walking through any other place could have been the you
1862
01:32:49.189 --> 01:32:51.979
know the supermarket and I felt exactly the same way
1863
01:32:52.000 --> 01:32:53.699
to me it was just cool being there and that
1864
01:32:53.739 --> 01:32:55.939
was just my approach to it and I don't like
1865
01:32:55.979 --> 01:32:57.300
when we were at the part where we were looking
1866
01:32:57.340 --> 01:33:00.140
at the shadow people and stuff um because you were
1867
01:33:00.159 --> 01:33:01.739
on the same you were on one of the same
1868
01:33:01.779 --> 01:33:05.590
tours as as we were and you know there's the
1869
01:33:05.770 --> 01:33:07.069
when you're on the fourth floor and you're doing the
1870
01:33:07.109 --> 01:33:09.489
shadow people there was some people that were just totally
1871
01:33:09.670 --> 01:33:12.420
freaked out by that And then for me, it was like, oh, well,
1872
01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:14.649
that's cool. I can see that. That's pretty cool. And
1873
01:33:14.670 --> 01:33:17.130
it's like, ho-hum, I could have been looking at, you know,
1874
01:33:17.850 --> 01:33:21.210
just a two-liter sitting on a table as far as
1875
01:33:21.270 --> 01:33:23.670
I was concerned. It just, I don't know. That's just
1876
01:33:23.710 --> 01:33:25.590
my approach to it because I've seen so much that
1877
01:33:25.630 --> 01:33:27.670
it just doesn't seem like that big of a deal
1878
01:33:27.710 --> 01:33:30.979
to me. I guess if I didn't believe it existed
1879
01:33:31.039 --> 01:33:34.479
or was really skeptical about things like that existing, I
1880
01:33:34.500 --> 01:33:36.819
would probably look at it different. But to me, it's
1881
01:33:36.859 --> 01:33:40.840
just a given, just like, you know, hey, there's, you know,
1882
01:33:40.859 --> 01:33:43.199
going to be, you know, snow cones after the Little
1883
01:33:43.220 --> 01:33:46.579
League game or, you know, women can't drive or, you know,
1884
01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:47.159
just givens.
1885
01:33:48.680 --> 01:33:51.319
Dina Marie had her own experience at Waverly.
1886
01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:53.119
You know, I was getting ready to ask you about
1887
01:33:53.149 --> 01:33:56.810
that because I know we haven't really talked a whole
1888
01:33:56.869 --> 01:33:59.729
lot since Waverly, but the one thing that I have
1889
01:33:59.770 --> 01:34:03.090
gotten out of you, Dina, was I think the quote
1890
01:34:03.130 --> 01:34:05.229
you said when I asked what you thought about Waverly,
1891
01:34:05.250 --> 01:34:07.649
you said, I liked some parts of it better than
1892
01:34:07.689 --> 01:34:10.060
the other. And it was said in a way where
1893
01:34:10.100 --> 01:34:11.899
I was like, I need to just leave that alone.
1894
01:34:12.989 --> 01:34:17.050
I enjoyed going to Waverly and learning the history about it.
1895
01:34:17.329 --> 01:34:21.380
And I think I enjoyed your episode. Not even I think,
1896
01:34:21.439 --> 01:34:23.659
I know. I enjoyed listening to you talk about it.
1897
01:34:24.270 --> 01:34:27.369
more than I enjoyed certain parts of the tour. I
1898
01:34:27.470 --> 01:34:30.949
had a really unpleasant experience on the fourth floor. So
1899
01:34:30.970 --> 01:34:33.350
when you say you saw some shadow people and it
1900
01:34:33.409 --> 01:34:36.960
was not anything earth shattering, I can't tell you if
1901
01:34:37.020 --> 01:34:39.020
I saw anything or not because I did not open
1902
01:34:39.060 --> 01:34:41.420
my eyes from the moment we stepped onto the fourth
1903
01:34:41.460 --> 01:34:47.800
floor until we left. I had the most horrible, unnerving sensation.
1904
01:34:48.159 --> 01:34:51.659
And it absolutely could have been mind over matter that
1905
01:34:51.680 --> 01:34:54.699
I got myself worked up and was just afraid to
1906
01:34:54.800 --> 01:34:55.479
see something.
1907
01:34:55.539 --> 01:34:56.979
And so I'm just going to not see it. I'm
1908
01:34:57.000 --> 01:34:58.239
going to keep my eyes closed.
1909
01:34:58.680 --> 01:35:01.579
So maybe those unpleasant sensations I was feeling were more
1910
01:35:02.079 --> 01:35:05.300
anxiety than actual presence.
1911
01:35:05.760 --> 01:35:07.100
Or that could have been my fault.
1912
01:35:07.539 --> 01:35:10.350
Or I do think it could have been. I don't
1913
01:35:10.390 --> 01:35:12.369
think it was just anxiety. I know that was part
1914
01:35:12.390 --> 01:35:16.069
of it. But part of the problem was I was
1915
01:35:16.109 --> 01:35:20.170
feeling so unsettled. It was just unsettling is probably the
1916
01:35:20.210 --> 01:35:22.600
best way to describe it. And I've made jokes on
1917
01:35:22.659 --> 01:35:23.590
Twisted Philly before.
1918
01:35:24.239 --> 01:35:26.399
I was raised Catholic for a long time.
1919
01:35:26.439 --> 01:35:30.529
And then in my middle teens, around 14, 15, we
1920
01:35:30.909 --> 01:35:34.210
moved and started attending an Episcopal church. And I was like, wow,
1921
01:35:34.569 --> 01:35:37.369
I didn't realize priests were normal, decent people and could
1922
01:35:37.409 --> 01:35:39.329
be married and have a family and I can go
1923
01:35:39.369 --> 01:35:40.189
babysit their kids.
1924
01:35:40.229 --> 01:35:41.489
And oh, it's fun to be in the choir.
1925
01:35:41.529 --> 01:35:43.930
Like it was just, it was a much more community
1926
01:35:43.989 --> 01:35:47.869
experience than the experience I had previously had attending, being
1927
01:35:47.949 --> 01:35:51.350
forced to attend Catholic church all the time. But, and
1928
01:35:51.750 --> 01:35:54.949
I wasn't married Catholic and I consider myself just a Christian.
1929
01:35:55.010 --> 01:35:56.850
More often than not, I go to Episcopal church. But
1930
01:35:57.149 --> 01:36:00.810
when I am like fearful of something like that, like
1931
01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:05.100
something ominous, you better believe I fall real quick back.
1932
01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:08.939
Into those Catholic roots, right? So like if I would
1933
01:36:08.960 --> 01:36:10.600
have had a rosary there, I would have been doing
1934
01:36:10.619 --> 01:36:11.270
the rosary beads.
1935
01:36:11.930 --> 01:36:15.130
So I'm standing there and I started praying and I
1936
01:36:15.149 --> 01:36:17.550
don't even remember. I don't even remember why I started.
1937
01:36:17.569 --> 01:36:20.329
It was more like a compulsion. And I started praying
1938
01:36:20.350 --> 01:36:21.750
and I was doing the Our Father. And the Our
1939
01:36:21.770 --> 01:36:24.510
Father isn't a Catholic prayer. It's a Christian prayer. Jerry,
1940
01:36:24.789 --> 01:36:27.720
I couldn't say it right once. And I was I
1941
01:36:28.020 --> 01:36:30.039
wasn't praying out loud. I think Jeremy heard me. I
1942
01:36:30.079 --> 01:36:31.619
was holding on to his arm and, you know, I
1943
01:36:31.619 --> 01:36:33.060
was standing very close to him. So I think he
1944
01:36:33.079 --> 01:36:35.779
probably heard maybe heard a few words. I don't know
1945
01:36:35.800 --> 01:36:38.140
if you heard exactly what was coming out of my mouth,
1946
01:36:38.220 --> 01:36:39.880
but I heard whispers.
1947
01:36:40.539 --> 01:36:45.010
I couldn't. get it right. And that scared me because,
1948
01:36:45.170 --> 01:36:45.989
you know, we have, we have these.
1949
01:36:46.050 --> 01:36:48.229
Jeremy and I have these really deep discussions about the
1950
01:36:48.310 --> 01:36:50.880
devil and Satan and how I don't really believe in it,
1951
01:36:51.329 --> 01:36:54.130
but I guess somewhere in the, I guess in the
1952
01:36:54.210 --> 01:36:57.369
deep recesses of my mind, I must, because I'm always
1953
01:36:57.409 --> 01:37:00.470
so scared of movies about the devil and about Satan.
1954
01:37:01.010 --> 01:37:02.949
And so the fact that I couldn't get the Our
1955
01:37:03.029 --> 01:37:05.430
Father right, if I was saying it out loud, even
1956
01:37:05.449 --> 01:37:07.710
though it was a whisper, had me terrified that there
1957
01:37:07.750 --> 01:37:11.689
was something really nefarious there. So, So then I started
1958
01:37:11.750 --> 01:37:14.149
saying the Hail Mary, and that was fine. I could
1959
01:37:14.170 --> 01:37:16.670
say the Hail Mary end to end, no problem. I
1960
01:37:16.710 --> 01:37:18.770
switched back to the Our Father. I can't get it right.
1961
01:37:18.829 --> 01:37:20.630
I could get it right in my head, but I
1962
01:37:20.670 --> 01:37:22.430
couldn't get it right when I was whispering it. And
1963
01:37:22.529 --> 01:37:27.229
that got me so scared, like the way they say
1964
01:37:27.270 --> 01:37:30.220
when a demon is present and you can't speak the
1965
01:37:30.260 --> 01:37:34.199
words of the Our Father. So that was my experience
1966
01:37:34.260 --> 01:37:38.199
on the fourth floor. And then they gave visitors the
1967
01:37:38.279 --> 01:37:43.050
opportunity to walk down the hall where these shadow figures
1968
01:37:43.090 --> 01:37:45.949
were a bit more prevalent and Jeremy walks down the
1969
01:37:46.029 --> 01:37:48.680
hall and I don't want to take your story away,
1970
01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:51.460
but all I can, but the people.
1971
01:37:51.199 --> 01:37:54.140
Around me are standing there saying, oh, oh, did you
1972
01:37:54.159 --> 01:37:56.819
see that? Did you see that thing reach out for him? Oh, oh, oh,
1973
01:37:56.840 --> 01:37:59.420
it looks like it's grabbing him. Oh my God. Look, it's, it's, it's,
1974
01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:01.649
it's trying to like wrap its arms around him. And
1975
01:38:01.659 --> 01:38:05.649
I wouldn't open my eyes. So I'm sorry, babe. It's
1976
01:38:05.750 --> 01:38:08.850
probably lousy. I was so scared.
1977
01:38:08.899 --> 01:38:11.229
And I, and I, I know, and I believe with
1978
01:38:11.270 --> 01:38:14.369
all my heart that you do have this like sixth
1979
01:38:14.630 --> 01:38:17.289
sense that you just feel things a little bit deeper
1980
01:38:17.329 --> 01:38:18.069
than the rest of us.
1981
01:38:18.250 --> 01:38:18.529
Right.
1982
01:38:18.930 --> 01:38:23.289
And so I was dead people.
1983
01:38:24.350 --> 01:38:27.350
So I was, I was scared for you going onto
1984
01:38:27.390 --> 01:38:28.050
that fourth floor.
1985
01:38:28.109 --> 01:38:30.619
Not that you would be scared, but I I was
1986
01:38:30.659 --> 01:38:34.079
scared for you wondering about how you would feel and
1987
01:38:34.199 --> 01:38:38.340
sense things and how presences would feel and sense you.
1988
01:38:38.420 --> 01:38:40.560
Because I think what happens, even just some of the
1989
01:38:40.619 --> 01:38:43.220
time we spent walking around the Seelbach Hotel, from the
1990
01:38:43.260 --> 01:38:46.149
things you've described to me and from reactions I've seen
1991
01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:49.619
you have when we're in these historic haunted places, I
1992
01:38:49.659 --> 01:38:52.779
don't necessarily know that it's you reacting to a presence.
1993
01:38:52.819 --> 01:38:55.520
I feel like the presence is like, oh, Jeremy's here.
1994
01:38:55.699 --> 01:38:58.619
All right. Air just got a little warmer. The electricity's up.
1995
01:38:58.979 --> 01:38:59.189
All right.
1996
01:38:59.199 --> 01:39:01.210
We're going to start messing with this guy. And that's
1997
01:39:01.229 --> 01:39:03.930
what I was scared of on the fourth floor. And
1998
01:39:03.949 --> 01:39:06.010
so I still wouldn't open my eyes, even though I
1999
01:39:06.229 --> 01:39:08.449
heard people talking like something was grabbing you.
2000
01:39:08.850 --> 01:39:11.050
I just started praying harder. I started praying harder.
2001
01:39:11.069 --> 01:39:13.390
I want to say something before we get too far
2002
01:39:13.430 --> 01:39:16.109
away from it. Dina and I don't just sit around
2003
01:39:16.170 --> 01:39:18.560
having conversations about Satan.
2004
01:39:19.100 --> 01:39:19.760
Well, no.
2005
01:39:19.859 --> 01:39:21.260
I think she made it clear that you do.
2006
01:39:21.300 --> 01:39:23.760
Just to clear that up. She mentioned that we have
2007
01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:27.180
these deep discussions about Satan. We don't just sit around
2008
01:39:27.260 --> 01:39:29.680
having discussions about Satan all the time.
2009
01:39:29.840 --> 01:39:32.529
You know, we will talk about movies. So I have
2010
01:39:32.649 --> 01:39:33.270
never seen.
2011
01:39:33.310 --> 01:39:38.310
We've gotten into a lot of in-depth conversations about, you know,
2012
01:39:38.430 --> 01:39:43.159
our own spirituality and religion. I mean, we talk about
2013
01:39:43.199 --> 01:39:49.770
politics and everything, but when it comes to introspective conversations
2014
01:39:49.850 --> 01:39:53.310
about our spirituality and about religion and what it means
2015
01:39:53.350 --> 01:39:55.600
to us or what it doesn't mean to us, those
2016
01:39:55.659 --> 01:39:57.770
do tend to get pretty And I.
2017
01:39:57.770 --> 01:40:00.489
Think, too, since starting Educating Jeremy, since we talk about
2018
01:40:00.550 --> 01:40:03.789
movies all the time, I have never seen The Exorcist
2019
01:40:03.989 --> 01:40:04.750
end to end.
2020
01:40:04.949 --> 01:40:07.649
I can't get through it. I'm terrified of that film.
2021
01:40:07.850 --> 01:40:13.069
And so we've had conversations about the premise of that film. And, okay,
2022
01:40:13.090 --> 01:40:14.869
maybe I didn't use the right words for people who
2023
01:40:14.890 --> 01:40:16.689
think we sit around and, like, we're Satan worshippers.
2024
01:40:16.729 --> 01:40:17.850
We're not. We're not.
2025
01:40:18.909 --> 01:40:22.810
I am very scared of movies that are connected to
2026
01:40:22.829 --> 01:40:25.090
the devil. So for me to say, I don't believe
2027
01:40:25.130 --> 01:40:27.550
in the devil, I have to really ask myself, well,
2028
01:40:27.689 --> 01:40:29.109
maybe somewhere you do.
2029
01:40:29.010 --> 01:40:32.109
Because you're terrified of movies about the devil.
2030
01:40:32.229 --> 01:40:35.710
So that was really sort of how that conversation about
2031
01:40:35.789 --> 01:40:36.529
Satan came about.
2032
01:40:36.569 --> 01:40:38.029
That was the impetus for that conversation.
2033
01:40:38.069 --> 01:40:40.569
But that was my experience at Waverly.
2034
01:40:40.680 --> 01:40:42.779
It was a great night.
2035
01:40:42.859 --> 01:40:44.979
So I don't want to in any way diminish what
2036
01:40:45.060 --> 01:40:47.869
you put together for us because- It was a great night.
2037
01:40:47.909 --> 01:40:49.850
The building is unbelievable.
2038
01:40:50.090 --> 01:40:52.649
And it was so cool to be there with so
2039
01:40:52.670 --> 01:40:57.649
many people that also share your interest in history and
2040
01:40:58.050 --> 01:41:01.649
paranormal and education and, you know, and really learning. I mean,
2041
01:41:01.670 --> 01:41:03.770
there was a lot of education there, too. But that
2042
01:41:03.789 --> 01:41:06.029
fourth floor, man, when they said we were going to
2043
01:41:06.050 --> 01:41:07.710
the fourth floor, I was like, yeah, no, I'm not.
2044
01:41:08.229 --> 01:41:10.140
And the lady's like, yeah, you are. That's how you're
2045
01:41:10.149 --> 01:41:13.229
getting out. And I said, well, we just don't have
2046
01:41:13.250 --> 01:41:14.850
to stop at the fourth floor. Like that isn't how
2047
01:41:14.909 --> 01:41:17.060
I get out. I could just keep going down the
2048
01:41:17.119 --> 01:41:19.920
steps without having to walk onto the fourth floor.
2049
01:41:20.159 --> 01:41:22.039
But clearly that was not an option.
2050
01:41:22.140 --> 01:41:23.239
There's two things I'd.
2051
01:41:23.220 --> 01:41:23.479
Like to do.
2052
01:41:23.479 --> 01:41:26.140
I was terrified of that fourth floor. Oh, and then,
2053
01:41:26.199 --> 01:41:28.279
oh my God, do you remember the person pulled my shawl?
2054
01:41:28.439 --> 01:41:30.319
That was one of the things I wanted to hear
2055
01:41:30.390 --> 01:41:32.289
your take on. And the other is the footsteps.
2056
01:41:32.310 --> 01:41:34.189
You have to tell a story. I've been talking too much.
2057
01:41:34.250 --> 01:41:35.850
You tell a story and then I'll come back to that.
2058
01:41:36.069 --> 01:41:38.909
Okay, I'll tell it. The most recent thing for me
2059
01:41:39.329 --> 01:41:43.180
was actually in Louisville. um, not, I'm, I don't know
2060
01:41:43.239 --> 01:41:45.699
how much I want to talk about Waverly place, but
2061
01:41:46.000 --> 01:41:48.770
at the hotel, the seal box, we had heard stories
2062
01:41:49.029 --> 01:41:52.310
about the blue lady of the seal box. And my
2063
01:41:52.369 --> 01:41:55.170
knowledge of it was basically that some woman had died.
2064
01:41:55.470 --> 01:41:57.789
She's been seen around the hotel. She must be, is
2065
01:41:57.810 --> 01:42:00.149
she wearing a blue dress, something like that, but they
2066
01:42:00.170 --> 01:42:02.659
call her the blue lady. And I honestly, I hadn't
2067
01:42:02.920 --> 01:42:06.600
paid that much attention to it. And then hearing Dina
2068
01:42:06.619 --> 01:42:10.020
Marie and Diane from History Goes Bump talking. The story
2069
01:42:10.060 --> 01:42:13.149
came out that she had fallen or possibly been pushed
2070
01:42:13.270 --> 01:42:15.909
down the elevator shaft. And Diane had taken a tour
2071
01:42:15.989 --> 01:42:20.310
and they talked about how if you're standing on the
2072
01:42:20.329 --> 01:42:22.979
street in front of the hotel, the elevator that she
2073
01:42:23.180 --> 01:42:26.680
fell down was in the front of the hotel on
2074
01:42:26.720 --> 01:42:29.720
the right-hand side. Well, during the course of the weekend...
2075
01:42:29.720 --> 01:42:32.649
We're going into the hotel room and I start telling Dina,
2076
01:42:32.890 --> 01:42:36.649
there's something here in our hotel, not in our hotel room,
2077
01:42:36.770 --> 01:42:39.670
but outside of our hotel room. There's in this hallway,
2078
01:42:39.710 --> 01:42:42.890
there's something here. There's a presence and it's not a
2079
01:42:43.229 --> 01:42:48.340
malevolent presence. It's nothing bad. It's more like it's curious,
2080
01:42:48.739 --> 01:42:51.699
like it wants to figure out what's going on or
2081
01:42:51.739 --> 01:42:54.600
like it's kind of waiting here to, you know, hey guys,
2082
01:42:54.680 --> 01:42:55.420
what's up? You know?
2083
01:42:56.439 --> 01:42:58.279
I think at one point you said you felt like
2084
01:42:58.340 --> 01:42:59.859
it wanted to come in the room with you.
2085
01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:02.380
It felt like it wanted to hang out with us
2086
01:43:02.699 --> 01:43:04.859
was kind of the feeling. Like it did want to
2087
01:43:04.899 --> 01:43:08.479
come in the room, but it wasn't coming in our room.
2088
01:43:08.760 --> 01:43:12.180
To me, there was a distinct barrier between the hallway
2089
01:43:12.220 --> 01:43:16.000
and our room. And we were in the opposite corner from...
2090
01:43:16.289 --> 01:43:19.229
of the hotel from where the blue lady had reportedly
2091
01:43:19.270 --> 01:43:22.989
fallen to her death. And so one day, one of
2092
01:43:23.029 --> 01:43:25.479
the days that we were there, after this has been
2093
01:43:25.520 --> 01:43:28.279
going on a couple of times, just me and her,
2094
01:43:28.680 --> 01:43:31.720
you know, shopping or going to lunch or whatever, we
2095
01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:33.600
come back to the hotel room and I'm telling her,
2096
01:43:33.619 --> 01:43:36.560
you know, I feel like there's something here. And one
2097
01:43:36.579 --> 01:43:39.859
of these days we bop into the hotel room, or
2098
01:43:40.439 --> 01:43:43.869
we go into the hotel lobby. I'm stuttering now. And
2099
01:43:44.130 --> 01:43:48.449
there's this dude there, that Dina recognizes and says, are
2100
01:43:48.529 --> 01:43:50.449
you Mr. Larry? Mr.
2101
01:43:50.489 --> 01:43:52.229
Larry? Mr.
2102
01:43:52.270 --> 01:43:52.750
Larry.
2103
01:43:52.770 --> 01:43:57.789
The hotel historian is who he turns out to be.
2104
01:43:58.229 --> 01:44:01.300
And he starts telling us the story of the Blue Lady.
2105
01:44:01.819 --> 01:44:05.260
And in his telling, and this dude, I mean, if
2106
01:44:05.340 --> 01:44:08.199
somebody knows something about this hotel, it's this guy. He
2107
01:44:08.260 --> 01:44:12.569
knows everything. He has literally written a book about it.
2108
01:44:12.899 --> 01:44:14.779
And he says, you know, they always tell people that
2109
01:44:14.819 --> 01:44:18.739
it's in this front elevator that we're standing right next to.
2110
01:44:18.819 --> 01:44:21.699
That's not where it went down. It was actually in
2111
01:44:21.739 --> 01:44:25.310
the opposite corner over there. And I'm like, what the fuck?
2112
01:44:26.310 --> 01:44:29.909
It turns out that the elevator shaft, she had fallen
2113
01:44:29.949 --> 01:44:32.430
down and we were on the, were we on the
2114
01:44:32.789 --> 01:44:33.350
eighth floor?
2115
01:44:33.670 --> 01:44:35.109
We were on the eighth floor. We were one floor
2116
01:44:35.130 --> 01:44:37.680
below where she went, where she was pushed.
2117
01:44:38.140 --> 01:44:41.659
She had been pushed from the ninth floor down an
2118
01:44:41.760 --> 01:44:45.840
elevator shaft. And I'm telling you, Right in front of
2119
01:44:45.909 --> 01:44:48.680
our door, directly to the left of our... So we're
2120
01:44:48.720 --> 01:44:51.319
in the corner room, directly to the left on the
2121
01:44:51.359 --> 01:44:54.399
wall that runs away from our room. There's a door
2122
01:44:54.439 --> 01:44:58.119
there that says service personnel only or something to that effect.
2123
01:44:58.500 --> 01:45:03.489
Just inside that door is the elevator that she was
2124
01:45:03.569 --> 01:45:04.229
pushed down.
2125
01:45:04.750 --> 01:45:07.909
Where she was murdered. And I said to Jeremy and
2126
01:45:07.970 --> 01:45:09.250
Diane when she told.
2127
01:45:09.130 --> 01:45:10.750
Us about the ghost tour that she took and what
2128
01:45:10.770 --> 01:45:13.739
the tour guide pointed out as the elevator... I said,
2129
01:45:13.800 --> 01:45:16.979
I don't think that's the elevator because, you know, I
2130
01:45:17.399 --> 01:45:20.210
will go back through newspaper archives into the 1800s if
2131
01:45:20.229 --> 01:45:23.109
that's what it takes from a research perspective. And so
2132
01:45:23.350 --> 01:45:26.449
I did a lot of research before going to Louisville
2133
01:45:26.529 --> 01:45:28.930
about this woman and who she was and what might
2134
01:45:28.949 --> 01:45:29.489
have happened.
2135
01:45:30.270 --> 01:45:31.760
And I'm hoping to get Mr.
2136
01:45:31.819 --> 01:45:34.619
Larry on Twisted Philly, even though it's about Louisville, but
2137
01:45:34.720 --> 01:45:37.479
I think it would be really enjoyable. She wasn't found
2138
01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:40.460
at the bottom of an elevator shaft. She was found
2139
01:45:40.500 --> 01:45:43.609
on the top of the elevator car. which means somebody
2140
01:45:43.649 --> 01:45:46.789
had to pry open the elevator doors and push her through.
2141
01:45:46.869 --> 01:45:51.590
And this woman was 24 years old, slender, tiny. It's
2142
01:45:51.630 --> 01:45:54.010
not something she would have been able to do. And
2143
01:45:54.069 --> 01:45:57.329
she was found in a service elevator. And, you know,
2144
01:45:57.350 --> 01:46:00.069
especially back in the 1930s, guests would not have had
2145
01:46:00.149 --> 01:46:01.609
access to that. It's not as easy as it is
2146
01:46:01.649 --> 01:46:03.310
today for me to just open a door that says
2147
01:46:03.350 --> 01:46:05.810
employees only and say, oh, look, babe, there's the service
2148
01:46:05.869 --> 01:46:07.149
elevator where the woman was murdered.
2149
01:46:07.609 --> 01:46:11.090
Right. So that we were next to the elevator.
2150
01:46:11.130 --> 01:46:13.289
Our room was adjacent to the elevator shaft where this
2151
01:46:13.329 --> 01:46:15.489
woman was murdered, the woman who is reported to haunt
2152
01:46:15.529 --> 01:46:18.420
the Seelbach Hotel. And we didn't find that out until
2153
01:46:18.680 --> 01:46:21.180
pretty soon before, I guess, late in the day on Saturday.
2154
01:46:21.199 --> 01:46:24.260
Yeah, I had no idea. I had no idea when
2155
01:46:24.300 --> 01:46:27.060
I was telling her that I was feeling something outside
2156
01:46:27.100 --> 01:46:30.500
of our hotel room in the lobby or in the hallway,
2157
01:46:30.699 --> 01:46:34.100
that that was five feet from where this woman had
2158
01:46:34.189 --> 01:46:36.369
fallen down the elevator shaft.
2159
01:46:36.739 --> 01:46:40.380
I've got a quick tidbit about that story. It's probably
2160
01:46:40.420 --> 01:46:43.920
something you haven't run across in what you're researching, but
2161
01:46:43.979 --> 01:46:46.699
I go down to the Jefferson County Courthouse in Louisville
2162
01:46:46.720 --> 01:46:49.640
all the time, and there's one office down there where
2163
01:46:49.659 --> 01:46:53.199
they've got the newspaper article from the Courier-Journal up about that,
2164
01:46:53.260 --> 01:46:55.060
and she's got the book that was written on the
2165
01:46:55.090 --> 01:46:57.850
Blue Lady before that, and when the book came out,
2166
01:46:57.909 --> 01:47:01.670
it had a lot of, you know, stories about what
2167
01:47:01.750 --> 01:47:05.279
happened and There's a prosecuting attorney down there that's about
2168
01:47:05.279 --> 01:47:07.699
75 years old and he's got a lot of free
2169
01:47:07.720 --> 01:47:11.020
time on his hand. And him and this young lady
2170
01:47:11.060 --> 01:47:14.699
in this office were talking about the story and he's like,
2171
01:47:14.840 --> 01:47:18.170
I just don't think that's how it happened. So he
2172
01:47:18.270 --> 01:47:20.449
actually went out, this goes back several years ago now,
2173
01:47:20.829 --> 01:47:23.350
he went out and he actually started researching it as
2174
01:47:23.430 --> 01:47:26.170
if he was prosecuting a case and found out a
2175
01:47:26.170 --> 01:47:29.270
lot of the details. So one of the newer articles
2176
01:47:29.310 --> 01:47:30.800
written in the last three or four years in the
2177
01:47:30.840 --> 01:47:34.840
Courier-Journal actually came from evidence and stuff that he dug up,
2178
01:47:34.939 --> 01:47:36.729
treating it like he would a regular case.
2179
01:47:37.090 --> 01:47:37.649
Whoa.
2180
01:47:37.670 --> 01:47:39.350
Yeah. That's pretty cool.
2181
01:47:39.369 --> 01:47:40.930
Oh, I'm going to have to look for that. Cause
2182
01:47:40.989 --> 01:47:42.090
I didn't look for anything.
2183
01:47:42.810 --> 01:47:45.890
You know, I, I found some stuff written by Larry,
2184
01:47:45.930 --> 01:47:49.079
the hotel historian that, that went back to the brigadier
2185
01:47:49.100 --> 01:47:51.479
general that was having an affair with her. She, she
2186
01:47:51.520 --> 01:47:54.720
worked at a brothel and, and, and everything associated with that.
2187
01:47:54.739 --> 01:47:56.819
And I didn't share everything he talked to us about
2188
01:47:57.220 --> 01:47:58.779
on the show. Cause I would really like him to
2189
01:47:58.819 --> 01:48:01.649
come on and tell the story, but, But besides whatever
2190
01:48:01.770 --> 01:48:03.270
he wrote, because I knew I was going to be
2191
01:48:03.310 --> 01:48:05.439
keeping an eye out for him, I didn't look for
2192
01:48:05.520 --> 01:48:10.159
anything recent. I was just searching through 1936 up through
2193
01:48:10.279 --> 01:48:12.399
like 1945 to see what I might be able to find.
2194
01:48:12.920 --> 01:48:13.729
That's crazy.
2195
01:48:14.510 --> 01:48:16.829
Yeah, it's a pretty cool story. But they've actually got
2196
01:48:16.869 --> 01:48:19.109
the newspaper article hanging up in that office and everything.
2197
01:48:19.130 --> 01:48:21.069
And that's when i was talking to the young lady
2198
01:48:21.109 --> 01:48:23.039
we asked about it and she told me the whole
2199
01:48:23.060 --> 01:48:23.800
story and i thought it was.
2200
01:48:23.739 --> 01:48:26.779
Pretty cool well i'll have to look for that all.
2201
01:48:26.500 --> 01:48:28.060
Right so we're getting ready to wrap this thing up
2202
01:48:28.100 --> 01:48:31.119
but i wanted to mention uh the exorcist you were
2203
01:48:31.159 --> 01:48:33.520
talking about that that's my favorite movie of all time
2204
01:48:33.560 --> 01:48:36.800
and it's To me, the most horrifying movie of all time.
2205
01:48:36.899 --> 01:48:39.399
And I'll tell you why. Maybe this is why you
2206
01:48:39.500 --> 01:48:42.079
think this way, too. I think when it comes to
2207
01:48:42.140 --> 01:48:45.479
most horror movies, you think Freddy, you take Michael Myers,
2208
01:48:45.500 --> 01:48:48.420
you take stuff like that. Yeah, there's killers out there,
2209
01:48:48.439 --> 01:48:51.079
but we already know that. And we know that in
2210
01:48:51.279 --> 01:48:54.060
most cases, a killer's not going to sneak into your
2211
01:48:54.100 --> 01:48:57.560
bedroom and kill you while you're sleeping. You know, those
2212
01:48:57.600 --> 01:49:00.199
things are scary, but they just seem out of the
2213
01:49:00.279 --> 01:49:04.279
realm of possibility. Or somebody can come in and save you.
2214
01:49:05.020 --> 01:49:07.260
But when it comes to The Exorcist, as soon as
2215
01:49:07.340 --> 01:49:10.399
I heard, and I was probably, when that movie came out,
2216
01:49:10.859 --> 01:49:13.760
I was like 10, 11 years old. But when you
2217
01:49:13.800 --> 01:49:16.640
hear it's based on a true story, and at that level,
2218
01:49:16.680 --> 01:49:19.819
you don't know what part is true, what part's not.
2219
01:49:19.859 --> 01:49:21.520
You just hear it's based on a true story, and
2220
01:49:21.539 --> 01:49:26.609
you see that movie, and you think, there is absolutely nobody,
2221
01:49:27.029 --> 01:49:29.890
if this is true, that can step in and save you.
2222
01:49:30.170 --> 01:49:32.340
Because in that movie, the priest couldn't even save you.
2223
01:49:32.890 --> 01:49:35.369
I mean, he did to a certain extent, I guess,
2224
01:49:35.829 --> 01:49:38.710
but nothing they were doing before then was working. And
2225
01:49:38.729 --> 01:49:42.100
I think that's the part that you just feel like,
2226
01:49:42.739 --> 01:49:44.739
if the devil wanted to come in and possess you,
2227
01:49:44.779 --> 01:49:46.119
he can just do it and there's nothing you can
2228
01:49:46.140 --> 01:49:48.000
do about it. And I think that's what made it
2229
01:49:48.039 --> 01:49:48.539
so scary.
2230
01:49:49.319 --> 01:49:50.880
I'll tell you the other reason, and it'll be quick.
2231
01:49:50.899 --> 01:49:52.439
I'll tell you the other reason why I'm so scared
2232
01:49:52.460 --> 01:49:54.399
of that movie. So I was four when it came
2233
01:49:54.520 --> 01:49:57.329
out and we were living with my grandparents at the time.
2234
01:49:57.369 --> 01:50:00.069
And I can see this in my mind. My mom
2235
01:50:00.109 --> 01:50:02.939
and dad went to see The Exorcist. And I don't
2236
01:50:02.960 --> 01:50:05.220
even know how long, at what point in the movie
2237
01:50:05.260 --> 01:50:07.960
it was, but my mother went out to the lobby
2238
01:50:08.420 --> 01:50:11.699
and called home to have my grandfather come get her
2239
01:50:12.600 --> 01:50:14.260
because she didn't want to stay and watch it.
2240
01:50:14.300 --> 01:50:15.149
She was terrified.
2241
01:50:15.270 --> 01:50:18.409
And my father was like, that's not cool. But he
2242
01:50:18.449 --> 01:50:20.210
was like, no, man, I paid for the tickets. I'm
2243
01:50:20.250 --> 01:50:24.310
watching this. So she called my grandfather to come pick
2244
01:50:24.329 --> 01:50:26.989
her up. And I remember sitting there with my grandmother
2245
01:50:27.010 --> 01:50:30.449
and my grandparents had these wrought iron gates that, that,
2246
01:50:30.869 --> 01:50:33.130
separated the living room from the entrance hall in their house,
2247
01:50:33.170 --> 01:50:35.729
which I know sounds crazy, but I remember peeking through
2248
01:50:35.750 --> 01:50:37.369
the gate, waiting for my mom to get home.
2249
01:50:38.010 --> 01:50:40.989
And when they walked in, she was hysterically crying. She
2250
01:50:41.029 --> 01:50:41.750
was that scared.
2251
01:50:42.050 --> 01:50:44.869
And I think that memory stays with me of seeing,
2252
01:50:44.899 --> 01:50:47.220
you know, as a little girl, seeing my mother that
2253
01:50:47.310 --> 01:50:48.609
scared by that movie.
2254
01:50:49.350 --> 01:50:51.640
So I think for me, that's part of it too.
2255
01:50:52.659 --> 01:50:55.699
Yeah. I agree that it is a great movie and
2256
01:50:55.779 --> 01:51:00.989
it is absolutely terrifying. Um, Something that freaks me out
2257
01:51:01.050 --> 01:51:05.140
about it is that when you're watching something like The
2258
01:51:05.189 --> 01:51:09.539
Conjuring and you're seeing the Warrens and it's playing them
2259
01:51:09.699 --> 01:51:13.180
up and, you know, you have the Warrens who stand
2260
01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:14.859
to make money out of it. So they wrote the
2261
01:51:14.899 --> 01:51:19.439
book or something like that. There's always somebody seeking publicity
2262
01:51:19.479 --> 01:51:23.489
of some kind. And the thing about The Exorcist is
2263
01:51:23.770 --> 01:51:26.329
it's based on a book that was written by a
2264
01:51:26.390 --> 01:51:32.760
priest about his experiences. And the kid, it was actually
2265
01:51:32.819 --> 01:51:37.979
a boy that Reagan is supposed to represent, the little
2266
01:51:38.020 --> 01:51:40.729
girl in The Exorcist. In reality, it was a little boy.
2267
01:51:40.750 --> 01:51:42.029
Yep, Roland Doe.
2268
01:51:42.550 --> 01:51:45.789
Nobody knows who he is because he's never come forward
2269
01:51:45.850 --> 01:51:50.310
because he doesn't want to be known for being that kid.
2270
01:51:50.350 --> 01:51:53.579
He's never made any money off of it. He's never
2271
01:51:53.640 --> 01:51:57.890
gotten any publicity off of it. And that fact alone
2272
01:51:58.229 --> 01:52:02.880
freaks me out because it lends some credence to the story.
2273
01:52:03.300 --> 01:52:07.220
I'm sure that Hollywood embellished some of it. But there's
2274
01:52:07.260 --> 01:52:11.319
also the possibility that, like Andrea Perrin said on your
2275
01:52:11.640 --> 01:52:14.979
interview with her, Hollywood didn't think anybody would watch it,
2276
01:52:15.020 --> 01:52:17.600
thought it would be too scary, so they toned it down.
2277
01:52:17.899 --> 01:52:21.470
And that's a possibility, too. Maybe Hollywood really toned it
2278
01:52:21.510 --> 01:52:24.109
down so that they could get viewers in the seats.
2279
01:52:24.520 --> 01:52:28.109
You know, the story on that movie, there's a couple
2280
01:52:28.170 --> 01:52:31.470
of really good documentaries about the making of that movie.
2281
01:52:31.829 --> 01:52:35.750
It's fascinating in its own right because that movie was
2282
01:52:36.270 --> 01:52:39.609
low budget. Linda Blair didn't even go to the screening
2283
01:52:39.670 --> 01:52:42.239
because her mom felt like it was not something she
2284
01:52:42.279 --> 01:52:42.920
needed to see.
2285
01:52:42.939 --> 01:52:46.359
I wouldn't want my kids seeing it even if she
2286
01:52:46.399 --> 01:52:47.359
was Linda Blair.
2287
01:52:47.539 --> 01:52:51.060
And they were putting it on, like, their main advertisement
2288
01:52:51.100 --> 01:52:54.350
was like on city buses, that they were advertising the movie,
2289
01:52:54.369 --> 01:52:57.949
and people were complaining about that. But yeah, I can't
2290
01:52:58.010 --> 01:53:00.850
remember if it was 20th Century or whoever it was
2291
01:53:00.890 --> 01:53:03.989
that did it, but they pretty much sunk all of
2292
01:53:04.029 --> 01:53:07.140
their money into the advertising of this movie to just
2293
01:53:07.260 --> 01:53:10.079
hope that it would make something. And when it was
2294
01:53:10.159 --> 01:53:15.439
such a huge hit, it resurrected the whole film company.
2295
01:53:15.859 --> 01:53:19.630
So yeah, that movie pretty much, you know, paved the
2296
01:53:19.670 --> 01:53:23.449
way for everything that came after it from that studio. So,
2297
01:53:23.470 --> 01:53:26.060
and I can't remember the studio, but yeah, it's worth
2298
01:53:26.109 --> 01:53:30.460
watching the actual documentaries out there about the making of
2299
01:53:30.520 --> 01:53:33.060
it because it's just, it was not something that should
2300
01:53:33.079 --> 01:53:34.880
have been. It was kind of like Ghost when it
2301
01:53:34.920 --> 01:53:36.760
came out where it was low budget and then everybody
2302
01:53:36.819 --> 01:53:39.340
ended up seeing it and a couple other movies like it.
2303
01:53:39.340 --> 01:53:42.750
But yeah, it was, it's, you know, it's very similar
2304
01:53:42.789 --> 01:53:43.369
to Halloween.
2305
01:53:43.710 --> 01:53:45.789
I know you're trying to wrap up, but I would
2306
01:53:45.890 --> 01:53:50.180
love for Dina to tell us her perspective on not
2307
01:53:50.239 --> 01:53:53.460
only her shawl being pulled away, but the footsteps on
2308
01:53:53.500 --> 01:53:55.800
the fourth floor of Waverly Place.
2309
01:53:56.000 --> 01:53:56.800
I would love to hear that.
2310
01:53:57.060 --> 01:53:59.239
Man, you gotta make me talk about that fourth floor again.
2311
01:54:01.579 --> 01:54:04.319
So the shawl was easier. The shawl wasn't that bad.
2312
01:54:04.359 --> 01:54:06.000
And Jerry, you remember this when we were on the
2313
01:54:06.039 --> 01:54:08.560
fifth floor. So when you did your live show and
2314
01:54:08.579 --> 01:54:10.340
you were talking about that room on the fifth floor,
2315
01:54:11.420 --> 01:54:15.359
I was so scared. I was so scared. And then
2316
01:54:15.390 --> 01:54:18.130
when we were on the fifth floor, it wasn't that bad.
2317
01:54:18.189 --> 01:54:21.050
There was that big vestibule open area when you came
2318
01:54:21.189 --> 01:54:25.310
off the stairs. And then there were the wings on
2319
01:54:25.350 --> 01:54:28.930
either side, which was unlike the rest of the hotel
2320
01:54:28.949 --> 01:54:31.390
where there, or excuse me, the rest of the sanatorium
2321
01:54:31.430 --> 01:54:33.289
where most of the rooms were two bedrooms and these
2322
01:54:33.329 --> 01:54:35.470
were actual like multiple bed wings.
2323
01:54:35.869 --> 01:54:37.329
So there was a lot of space that they let
2324
01:54:37.369 --> 01:54:38.029
us move around.
2325
01:54:39.250 --> 01:54:40.829
And I just kind of hung back and stayed in
2326
01:54:40.869 --> 01:54:43.810
that vestibule area. I wasn't real comfortable going in 502,
2327
01:54:43.810 --> 01:54:47.140
but Once I saw it, it wasn't quite.
2328
01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:49.510
As terrifying as it sounded when you talked about it.
2329
01:54:50.029 --> 01:54:52.189
By that point, you weren't feeling too hot either.
2330
01:54:52.750 --> 01:54:53.710
No, I wasn't.
2331
01:54:55.310 --> 01:54:59.930
And the story's about 502, that it's so haunted because
2332
01:54:59.970 --> 01:55:02.359
a young nurse took her life in that room. What
2333
01:55:02.399 --> 01:55:04.319
we learned when we were at the sanatorium is that
2334
01:55:04.439 --> 01:55:08.539
actually she took her life in that open vestibule area.
2335
01:55:09.180 --> 01:55:11.340
And what was so interesting was the way the whole
2336
01:55:11.399 --> 01:55:15.189
group congregated around our tour guide, there was this space
2337
01:55:15.229 --> 01:55:16.369
that nobody would stand in.
2338
01:55:17.050 --> 01:55:19.750
And apparently that's the space where she was found. She
2339
01:55:19.789 --> 01:55:20.449
had hanged herself.
2340
01:55:21.390 --> 01:55:24.090
And so I was just kind of milling about and
2341
01:55:25.369 --> 01:55:28.810
I was pretty unsettled about some things that I'd experienced there.
2342
01:55:29.760 --> 01:55:34.420
And I felt somebody tug on my shawl. And at
2343
01:55:34.439 --> 01:55:37.039
first I thought, oh, is it Jeremy? Or did somebody
2344
01:55:37.079 --> 01:55:38.659
just brush past me? Because at that point we all
2345
01:55:38.699 --> 01:55:44.640
had a little bit of free reign. We I had
2346
01:55:44.680 --> 01:55:47.640
my shawl around my shoulders and ladies will understand this.
2347
01:55:47.659 --> 01:55:49.520
You put it around your shoulders, around your upper arms,
2348
01:55:49.539 --> 01:55:52.520
then you kind of tuck it in your arm.
2349
01:55:52.840 --> 01:55:56.739
And no, it was pulled. It wasn't the wind. It
2350
01:55:56.819 --> 01:55:58.739
didn't drop. It was being pulled.
2351
01:55:59.340 --> 01:56:02.159
And so I just sort of turned my head to
2352
01:56:02.180 --> 01:56:06.560
the side and I said, I'm very cold. I would
2353
01:56:06.600 --> 01:56:08.739
like to keep my shawl on. Would you please stop
2354
01:56:08.779 --> 01:56:11.130
pulling on my shawl? Because I need it. And something
2355
01:56:11.149 --> 01:56:11.710
to that effect.
2356
01:56:12.369 --> 01:56:14.069
And it stopped. So I don't know who it was.
2357
01:56:14.090 --> 01:56:15.430
I don't know what it was.
2358
01:56:15.569 --> 01:56:20.479
But they considerately respected my request and stopped pulling on
2359
01:56:20.520 --> 01:56:21.039
my shawl.
2360
01:56:21.060 --> 01:56:26.279
I haven't heard the term shawl said by someone under
2361
01:56:26.319 --> 01:56:28.359
the age of 70, I don't think, in my entire life.
2362
01:56:29.020 --> 01:56:30.659
I mean, it's a scarf, but I wasn't wearing it
2363
01:56:30.729 --> 01:56:32.630
as a scarf. I was wearing it as a shawl
2364
01:56:32.789 --> 01:56:34.430
around my shoulders to stay warm.
2365
01:56:35.090 --> 01:56:37.250
And if you hang out with Dina, you'll hear shawl
2366
01:56:37.350 --> 01:56:37.909
quite a bit.
2367
01:56:39.250 --> 01:56:40.199
What else do you call it?
2368
01:56:40.489 --> 01:56:41.869
She wears one all the time.
2369
01:56:41.989 --> 01:56:44.289
I don't know. The only time I hear the word Shaw,
2370
01:56:44.430 --> 01:56:50.439
it's usually like a really old woman. Give me my Shaw, baby. Okay.
2371
01:56:50.939 --> 01:56:53.880
But that's fine. Poor Jeremy.
2372
01:56:53.920 --> 01:56:56.640
When we record Educating Jeremy together, it was so cold.
2373
01:56:56.680 --> 01:56:58.810
I recorded a closet, a walk-in closet. It was so
2374
01:56:58.850 --> 01:57:01.569
cold in here one time. I had a Shaw wrapped
2375
01:57:01.590 --> 01:57:03.920
around me. And, you know, I had my hair up
2376
01:57:03.960 --> 01:57:06.180
in a bun and my glasses pulled down on my
2377
01:57:06.239 --> 01:57:07.619
nose so I could see my nose.
2378
01:57:07.680 --> 01:57:09.619
I probably do look like a 70-year-old woman.
2379
01:57:09.659 --> 01:57:10.369
You probably look like a.
2380
01:57:10.380 --> 01:57:13.500
She had a blanket over her at one point.
2381
01:57:14.039 --> 01:57:16.319
I was picturing a little old lady with a Tweety bird.
2382
01:57:18.699 --> 01:57:21.510
That's about right. She had a full-on blanket over her
2383
01:57:21.520 --> 01:57:22.210
at one point.
2384
01:57:23.090 --> 01:57:24.029
Guys, it's been fun.
2385
01:57:24.710 --> 01:57:26.670
It has been. Thank you, Jerry. You've given us so
2386
01:57:26.710 --> 01:57:28.529
much time. You've been such a gracious host.
2387
01:57:29.229 --> 01:57:30.810
Why don't you tell everybody how they can find.
2388
01:57:32.479 --> 01:57:35.399
Because Jerry's got to go. His listeners are going to
2389
01:57:35.539 --> 01:57:37.149
be like, dude, shut the hell up.
2390
01:57:37.159 --> 01:57:38.619
Oh, I'm sure.
2391
01:57:39.029 --> 01:57:41.189
Tell everybody how to find you on social media and
2392
01:57:41.210 --> 01:57:41.649
your shows.
2393
01:57:42.050 --> 01:57:45.109
You can find me at the Twisted Philly Podcast on
2394
01:57:45.189 --> 01:57:48.550
all major podcast apps. I'm on Twitter at Twisted underscore Philly,
2395
01:57:48.970 --> 01:57:51.270
on Facebook at the Twisted Philly Podcast. And I have
2396
01:57:51.289 --> 01:57:53.229
to say thank you because so many of your listeners
2397
01:57:53.310 --> 01:57:55.310
have already found me, and I really appreciate that you
2398
01:57:55.329 --> 01:57:55.770
guys would.
2399
01:57:56.010 --> 01:57:57.550
Take a trip up north to hang out with me
2400
01:57:57.590 --> 01:57:57.909
in Philly.
2401
01:57:58.189 --> 01:58:00.220
Yeah, thanks a lot for having us on, man. I
2402
01:58:00.260 --> 01:58:06.010
appreciate it, too. They can find me at PWLT Podcast
2403
01:58:06.270 --> 01:58:12.640
on Twitter and in the Facebook group. at Podcasts We
2404
01:58:12.680 --> 01:58:15.899
Listen To is the name of that. We have about 20,000
2405
01:58:15.899 --> 01:58:20.930
members that talk about podcasts of all genres or whatever
2406
01:58:20.970 --> 01:58:23.909
they listen to, whatever they like. We try to keep
2407
01:58:23.970 --> 01:58:24.630
it positive.
2408
01:58:24.649 --> 01:58:27.210
As positive as you can keep 20,000 people at one time.
2409
01:58:29.119 --> 01:58:29.720
You did it.
2410
01:58:29.619 --> 01:58:32.079
Easy I'll tell you that and.
2411
01:58:32.039 --> 01:58:34.750
Then we also have Educating Jeremy where we talk about
2412
01:58:34.789 --> 01:58:36.989
the movies that she loves that I haven't seen and
2413
01:58:37.010 --> 01:58:39.350
that's at Educating Jeremy on Twitter and.
2414
01:58:39.869 --> 01:58:42.609
It's the same thing on Facebook and it's the same thing.
2415
01:58:42.529 --> 01:58:43.590
On Facebook.
2416
01:58:45.649 --> 01:58:47.939
Guys it's been fun she keeps.
2417
01:58:47.479 --> 01:58:51.220
Track of these things she keeps track of these things
2418
01:58:51.260 --> 01:58:53.880
you shut up about my angel's envy I know we're going.
2419
01:58:53.800 --> 01:58:55.640
To be doing more stuff like this in the future
2420
01:58:55.659 --> 01:58:57.659
I know Dina we've already talked about doing something in
2421
01:58:57.699 --> 01:59:01.149
the future Yeah, I would love it. So we'll get
2422
01:59:01.189 --> 01:59:05.439
together on something. Jeremy, it's been fun. I'm sure we'll
2423
01:59:05.500 --> 01:59:08.560
end up together doing something, and I'm just looking forward
2424
01:59:08.600 --> 01:59:09.159
to New Orleans.
2425
01:59:09.659 --> 01:59:10.180
Me too, man.
2426
01:59:10.220 --> 01:59:10.479
Me too.
2427
01:59:10.520 --> 01:59:12.260
All right, guys, I'll talk to you soon.
2428
01:59:12.279 --> 01:59:13.760
Yeah, thanks for having us on, man.
2429
01:59:13.899 --> 01:59:14.439
You're welcome.
2430
01:59:14.739 --> 01:59:15.199
Bye.
2431
01:59:15.579 --> 01:59:17.159
How much fun are they two when you get them
2432
01:59:17.199 --> 01:59:17.640
two together?
2433
01:59:18.479 --> 01:59:21.930
Yeah, they're pretty funny. I love their one show, too,
2434
01:59:22.010 --> 01:59:25.050
especially when she's trying to figure out why in the
2435
01:59:25.069 --> 01:59:29.430
heck Jeremy hasn't seen a movie. And it is pretty amazing.
2436
01:59:29.449 --> 01:59:31.449
It's pretty funny.
2437
01:59:31.630 --> 01:59:33.430
How amazing is it that I could probably be on
2438
01:59:33.470 --> 01:59:35.310
that same show since there's all those movies that I
2439
01:59:35.329 --> 01:59:35.729
haven't seen?
2440
01:59:35.970 --> 01:59:36.310
I know.
2441
01:59:36.590 --> 01:59:39.310
I don't know. I just maybe, I just watch too
2442
01:59:39.350 --> 01:59:40.210
much TV, I guess.
2443
01:59:40.289 --> 01:59:42.189
I just saw Pulp Fiction for the first time like
2444
01:59:42.479 --> 01:59:43.100
three years ago.
2445
01:59:43.520 --> 01:59:44.579
That's crazy to me.
2446
01:59:44.600 --> 01:59:46.819
And then when I saw it, I was like, man,
2447
01:59:46.840 --> 01:59:47.939
I wish I'd have seen this forever.
2448
01:59:48.220 --> 01:59:48.520
Yeah.
2449
01:59:48.880 --> 01:59:52.520
So anyways, guys, we love you so much. Happy Memorial Day.
2450
01:59:52.560 --> 01:59:55.149
Be safe out there. Thank you for all of our
2451
01:59:55.189 --> 01:59:58.350
veterans out there, and a big thank you to the
2452
01:59:58.430 --> 01:59:59.329
ones who never came home.
2453
01:59:59.789 --> 02:00:00.069
Yes.
2454
02:00:00.909 --> 02:00:02.909
God bless you all. We love you so much.
2455
02:00:03.489 --> 02:00:04.569
And we'll see you next week.
2456
02:00:05.029 --> 02:00:06.069
Have a great day, guys.
2457
02:00:08.829 --> 02:00:11.270
Hey, Hillbillies. If you guys enjoy what we do here
2458
02:00:11.310 --> 02:00:13.310
on the show every week and appreciate all the hard
2459
02:00:13.350 --> 02:00:15.640
work we put into it, consider being one of our
2460
02:00:15.680 --> 02:00:18.119
Patreon supporters. All you've got to do is go to
2461
02:00:18.180 --> 02:00:22.689
our website, hillbillyhorrorstories.com, Click on the tab for donations and
2462
02:00:22.710 --> 02:00:25.729
you'll see the Patreon link right there. Click on it
2463
02:00:26.029 --> 02:00:28.289
and you can go to our Patreon page. Then you
2464
02:00:28.310 --> 02:00:33.439
will have a decision to make. You can choose the $ 1,
2465
02:00:32.579 --> 02:00:36.640
the $ 3, the $ 5, or the $ 10 donation. Each one
2466
02:00:36.680 --> 02:00:40.000
gets you different things a month. But regardless, you get
2467
02:00:40.279 --> 02:00:44.050
some free stuff. Just check out the bonuses under each
2468
02:00:44.130 --> 02:00:46.130
tier and you'll see what you get for free for
2469
02:00:46.149 --> 02:00:49.239
that month. But you'll get something free regardless. Also, if
2470
02:00:49.260 --> 02:00:51.859
you'd like to buy any Hillbilly Horror Story merch, you're
2471
02:00:51.899 --> 02:00:56.119
also in the right place on the website, hillbillyhorrorstories.com. Just
2472
02:00:56.159 --> 02:00:58.579
click on the store page and see whatever it is
2473
02:00:58.619 --> 02:01:01.010
that you like. Click on a few links, send a
2474
02:01:01.029 --> 02:01:03.090
little bit of money, and your item will be on
2475
02:01:03.149 --> 02:01:05.149
its way. Thank you guys so much for all of
2476
02:01:05.189 --> 02:01:08.289
your support. We love you, we thank you, and we
2477
02:01:08.329 --> 02:01:08.989
appreciate you.