VHS Ghost

WEBVTT
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Many haze right in a row.
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And I hear it back, and now you guys have to hear it too.
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Because you'll hear it, listen to every fucking podcast.
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I do it every time.
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It's like a it's like a vocal tip.
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Tip.
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Vocal tick.
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Phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal start.
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A plus start.
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Anyway, um I might record a little intro for this, but just in case I didn't, the song you just heard is uh from the band How Strange It Is.
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It's called Slime.
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That's coming out on their next album.
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Uh so go check them out.
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Thank them for letting me use their song.
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It's a I don't know.
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Uh Brandon here.
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I'll introduce you in a second.
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But if you've heard the podcast before, this song is a phenomenal podcast intro outro song.
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I think it fucking works perfectly.
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It's like they designed it for my beautiful podcast here.
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But anyway, oh yeah.
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We'll listen back to this one.
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This will be the first one.
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I would like to welcome Brandon, who just told me his last name, and then I immediately forgot it.
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Uh so he's gonna introduce himself.
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Brandon, welcome to the podcast.
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Hey, uh yeah, Brandon here.
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Uh last name is uh Martin.
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Nice, yeah.
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Oh, so you're you're a two first name guy too.
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I am, yeah.
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I surprisingly I don't like either of the names, really.
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I don't care for them very much.
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Do you have like a nickname at all, or are you just stuck with it?
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Uh the only one I've had is just like B, you know.
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That's not bad.
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That's like fine.
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Uh you can't go with BM though.
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That sounds like bowel movement.
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No, yeah, I can't.
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I can't do that.
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Well, uh Brandon uh tell the good listeners out there uh, you know, about your band, about your who you are.
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Give a good brief introduction.
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Uh yeah, I uh I'm based in Portland, Oregon now.
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Uh I've been here for like three years, I think.
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Um, and yeah, I uh just make music in my bedroom, and uh most of it is like pretty spooky for you know, whatever reason.
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I don't know why, but I'm just kinda drawn to the uh spooky paranormal stuff, and it's kind of just leaked into my music.
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And uh yeah, that's my thing.
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And where can they find this music?
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What is it uh uh yeah, it's just kind of everywhere.
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Um Spotify, YouTube, some stuff on SoundCloud.
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Um is it all under the name VHS Ghost or is it just uh Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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No, it's just VHS Ghost.
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I have like um I have like a side project that I haven't really put much effort into, but it's uh Here's to the afterlife.
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Um oh man.
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All all spooky.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You're like uh you're like a Halloween store.
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What is the name of that Hall?
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Spirit of Halloween store, man.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, that's my thing.
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I don't know.
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So uh when did you this is obviously great music.
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This is my I'm a professional podcaster now.
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I'm gonna ask you the standard podcast question of Hey, when did you get involved with music?
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What did you start doing?
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Do you come from a musical background?
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When did you start playing?
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Did your parents play?
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Are you just like a guy that likes fucking around in his bedroom?
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Yeah, um, I didn't make my own music until probably like COVID, like 2020.
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Um, but drums was kind of like my first instrument as a kid.
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Nice.
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Uh and my dad plays guitar.
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Uh, and so we were just kind of like a jam, you know, growing up.
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Um and that was kind of like it for music.
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And then I, you know, in like high school and stuff, I played in bands and stuff.
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Um but yeah, I didn't really like try and make my own stuff until like COVID happened.
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Oh wow.
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And that's kind of when I like taught myself guitar, and uh yeah, that that's kind of what started it.
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That's cool, man.
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That's cool.
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I like uh first off, shout outs to your dad.
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That is a brilliant strategy, but like, no no, you want to learn how to play the drums, don't you, Brandon?
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Yeah, you want to learn how to play the drums.
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No, four, four time, Brandon.
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Four four time.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, and there seems to be like, at least in my experience with like starting, you know, to play live and stuff, it's it's hard to find like good drummers, you know.
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Oh, and dude, you're preaching to the choir on this.
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I uh I started playing drums primarily in bands, uh, kind of the opposite.
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I learned how to play the guitar uh in high school and like taught myself how to play the drums in college.
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But when I first moved to Portland like 10 years ago, I was mostly thought, like, oh, I'll play guitar, I'll write some songs.
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Then I met uh the woman who is my wife now.
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Yeah, she could sing and play guitar, and I was like, Oh, I can play drums, I can play very simple slow core drums behind you.
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And then I realized like in this town, there is a never-ending need for slow core drummers, are just like very simple drummers, and so that's been my my life ever since, pretty much.
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Yeah, well, it seems like the thing is, at least you know, in my experience, is like there's good drummers, but when you find them, they're in like five projects.
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Oh, we're like, and it's hard to like pin them down and like get them to like you know consistently practice and stuff with you because they're just doing so many things.
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I mean, I'm not a good drummer, and I was in four bands at one point.
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I'm like, what is yeah, yeah.
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Every time somebody asked me to be in a band, I'm like, you guys know there are like other drummers that are like, Yeah, but you answered the call, man.
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You're you're free, you know.
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That's like a huge plus.
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Yeah.
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Now I'm trying to play guitar more because I'm like, all right, I you know, I should probably play this instrument that I enjoy third.
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Yeah, yeah, totally.
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You know, now I'm uh now I'm a famous podcaster or famous internet face.
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I'm a face on your phone sometimes for a very brief period of time.
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Uh and I have to, you know, constantly come to the I have to constantly come to grips with the fact that of all the things that I wanted to be, this is the one that people are paying attention to.
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And I love it.
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It's just a weird thing to be like, you know, people like talking people like me talking to them.
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Some people like me talking to them every single day, but not really more than a minute.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I mean, it seems like you're you're doing good, you know.
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It seems like you're good at it.
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I mean, people like tic-tacks, they eat them every day, they're not really a meal, but they like their tic-tacks.
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Exactly, yeah.
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No, but you know, I've only I've only done uh I think I did one podcast like many years ago.
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So, you know, and this one's this one's your favorite podcast that you've ever been on, right?
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Yes, yeah.
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This one is great.
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I've been looking for like a tagline uh for this thing, and it might just be your favorite musician's favorite podcast and just make everybody say it if they're gonna be on the podcast.
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That sounds great.
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Oh, that that could be a vibe, you know.
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I'm trying to figure out the world's worst marketing.
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Everything that I do, I've I've been talking about this more and more now.
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It's like everything I've ever done online, by the way, is all in support of I'm building out a fantasy football game, and I just want people to play that fantasy football game.
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And so all these videos about me talking about like modest mouse in the American West is like the world's worst marketing campaign to get somebody to play fantasy football.
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That's it.
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That's all that's the that's the magic behind all this.
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So absolutely, yeah.
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So 2020, you start uh messing around in your bedroom.
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Where are you living at this point?
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Uh yeah, I've been in Portland now.
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Um in 2020, where were you?
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Oh, in 2020, I was uh in Santa Cruz.
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Uh that's like my my hometown, um where I grew up.
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And uh yeah, it was it was interesting.
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Um not to get super like dark right off the bat, but uh let's do it.
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Let's let's dive right in, baby.
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Yeah, so like you know, I was kind of messing around with it in 2020, and then the first day of 2021, uh I I found out that I might have cancer.
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Oh, and uh I did.
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Oh god, oh Jesus, I didn't know that.
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Um so I was like making albums and stuff while doing all that stuff and like doing chemo, and uh so it was kind of just like a really um I guess kind of like cathartic thing that I was doing during the time.
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Holy shit, dude.
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What kind of cancer was it?
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Not to get too personal.
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This is gonna yeah, it's gonna be crazy.
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But I had uh testicular and so you and Lance Armstrong, man.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Got it.
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Uh so yeah, it was crazy.
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I had to do like a big surgery and like a bunch of chemo, and um, but you know, I've been, I guess you would say, in remission for like five years now.
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Um congrats, dude.
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That's scary as hell though.
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Yeah, I was really crazy.
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Uh scary as hell, shit.
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But yeah, I'm good now.
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Uh but yeah, looking back like very crazy that I was like making a bunch of music during that time, you know, because it's just like you're very sick during that.
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Um but yeah, you know, a lot of I mean you're also you're going through chemo 2021.
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Uh yeah.
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This is COVID lockdowns, you know.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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Not only are you going through it, you're probably pretty isolated.
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Yeah, it was really weird, you know.
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I uh would have to do like I woke up from the like massive surgery by myself.
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It was like really weird.
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My family couldn't couldn't come in the hospital.
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And uh yeah, really strange time.
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But um, you know, I I think some good music came from it, so it's like not all bad, I guess.
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When did you, you know, once you started making the music, when did you start like releasing it?
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Did people start reacting to it right away?
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Like was this kind of like a push-pull thing of like I'm making this music to cope with cancer, and then all of a sudden people are attaching to it in any way, or or what how did you start getting some noted uh some notoriety on it?
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It was like kind of gradual, you know.
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I so when I started out, uh there was this tape label, uh, which I want to give a shout out to from uh Texas, uh called Chord Organ Tapes.
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Yeah.
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Uh they all started.
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I think I've heard of them.
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Yeah, they have another one called uh spooky tapes that are like so like yeah, I like found out about them and like found a lot of great music through them.
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And uh it was always kind of like a goal for me to like get a release with them.
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And uh so I I put like a little album out.
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I like had enough songs or whatever to make an album.
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Um, and so I put them out and it just kind of like worked out in a really cool way.
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Like he actually hit me up about like doing a tape release, and I was like, Yeah, I was gonna hit you up anyway.
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So like great.
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Um, and so he was yeah, he was kind of like the first person uh, you know, to like do a physical release of my music.
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And um, you know, I kind of gained uh you know a couple fans here and there at that time that still like support me today, and it was just you know, it was just a really cool thing that happened and um you know still grateful for.
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And um but yeah, it was it was kind of like a gradual thing, you know, after that.
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Um just people recommending it to other people.
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I I know uh I think one of the reasons I reached out to you is like you were talking, I think you made some posts recently that was like, uh, hey, how do you get people to come out to shows?
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Everybody listens to my stuff online.
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Yeah, like I have been honestly kind of fascinated by this because uh so much of music consumption nowadays is like on these short form videos.
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I'm thinking about short form videos or whatever all the time.
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And like specifically, a lot of your music fits that need.
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You know, you talk about it as like kind of spooky or whatever.
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That so many videos work with a little bit of a spooky sound, right?
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Like an ethereal vibe to it.
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Like you can pick any 10 seconds of one of your songs and put it on a 10-second video, and it essentially colors uh it's like the font of a video.
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Your music is sort of the font of a video, it colors it in an interesting way.
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Yeah, that being said, you know, when I listen to stuff like that, I'm like, all right, do people come out to see this guy play live?
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Do they play live, or is it just a guy in his bedroom putting stuff together?
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Um it's kind of an odd thing because it's like you almost don't think of it as music, it's because it's you know, like I said, the font of the video or something.
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Have you found what is your opinion of this as somebody on that side of this equation?
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It's I think honestly, like one of the weirdest things to me about just the whole music industry, at least that like I've uh you know, dealt with the whole uh the whole kind of like streaming to like real life ticket sale show thing is like such a like a strange disconnect for me.
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Like you know, in most cases I don't think it like uh holds that much uh connection to each other, like at least in my experience, you know, it's like you can have this like big streaming number or whatever and like not really sell tickets to shows, you know.
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Um and you know, I've I've had uh just like kind of a non-stop uh income of people being like, nobody wants to hear this live.
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It's like this is music that you like lay in bed to and like whatever and a weird thing to say to a person that's making the music.
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No, no, don't we no one wants to see your face.
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We don't like it.
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Yeah, and you know, it's like I take it with a grain of salt.
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It's like because you know, there are people that do come out and like support, and uh it's just a different vibe, you know, it's not like uh super high energy uh dancing the whole time show.
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And I think that you know uh there is still value in that to some people.
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Um so yeah, but it it is a really weird, a weird thing, you know.
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Well, I mean, as a big fan myself of way more mellow music, you know.
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I uh I I did a podcast.
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Have you ever heard of the band Idaho?
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Sounds kind of familiar.
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Yeah, they're like a 90s slow core band, so very chill.
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Uh yeah, he's got a couple more high-energy albums, but I got into the stuff that was a lot more chill.
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And I talked to him recently.
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Like, I mean, he said he made a lot of his money just doing background audio for Hollywood, you know, for TV shows and movies and stuff.
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Like I'm sure he made some money, but like I have seen his band play live, and it is one of those things where you're watching them like I love the sun, it's one of my favorite signs.
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Like, I get why this is a hard sell as a live venue thing because you know, you almost want uh it almost works better if like everybody had a little cafe table and like an espresso or something, like something to do with their hands they could sit and chill, and you're just playing in a loud bar, you know, outside somewhere in Portland and trying to get their attention, you know?
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It's it's interesting, it's different though.
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I think it's like you know, kind of knowing, um I don't know how to explain it, kind of just knowing like your niche and like finding it and like you know, because there are like artists like uh do you know Mage Tears?
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Yes, I do.
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Um yeah, she's like incredible, and uh, you know, from the videos I've seen, like her live shows are like so soft and like intimate, you know, and like requires like it's just a very specific vibe.
00:15:59.919 --> 00:16:06.559
Um but you know, like if you know that going into it, then it's like it seems like people are very like receptive to it.
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:18.879
And um, but in the context of like, you know, if people are just coming to a show, you're playing at a bar and like expecting like a high energy thing, it's like then yeah, it might might not hit.
00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:26.159
If you're just a loud fucking rock and roll band, you can drown out the TVs, you can drown out the uh you know, it's Oregon here.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:31.759
Half the bars have little gambling setups very close to the stage, the little uh video lottery stuff.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.240
Right.
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:45.600
Uh and it's loud and it's uh you know, and it gets you, and just I you know, it's very strange that it's it's hard to like really chill, quiet music because of the live component of it sometimes.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:51.279
It's like it's not the live setting, it's not really why I listen to most of the music that I listen to.
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:58.480
If you've watched any of my reels, you know I'm mostly just walking around the neighborhood having weird thoughts about you know Moby Dick or something like that.
00:16:58.879 --> 00:16:59.600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.559
And like the music in the background is like what keeps me occupied.
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.600
I like it, I love stuff like that.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:05.599
I've listened to your stuff on rainy days.
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.480
I can't do it in the sun, it's too nice out when it's that makes sense.
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:09.119
That's fair.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:13.039
You know, when we have a nice spooky September day, ooh, baby.
00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:15.440
Yeah, and that's that's like great, you know.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.119
That's like I'd prefer people to like enjoy it like that because that's the vibe I think it gives off.
00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:22.960
But um let's see.
00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:28.720
I'm trying to think of stuff that you could do because I remember uh I'm a big fan of like Beatles history, just because I'm a dork.
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:36.559
Uh and like the Beatles in Hamburg in specific in particular always gets me because it's like one, they had no idea that they're going to be the Beatles at any point.
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.400
So these are these people that are just like four teenagers playing in in Hamburg or whatever.
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:48.559
So it always kind of fascinates me if like everything they do is the thing they did before they became John Paul Ringo and like famous for the rest of time, you know?
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:49.359
Right.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:18:03.920
Uh, but they the guy that hired them in Germany originally, when they first got there, they would just go and play their songs and he would just come up with a cane and smack it on the stage and in German yell, make show, make show, make show.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.000
And they learned like, oh, we have to be like entertaining for four and a half hours.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:12.000
You know, that's how long they had to play because back then they didn't have DJs or anything like that.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:17.839
You hired a band because that was how you got music to be loud enough at a club, but it's like they had to learn how to make show.
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:25.359
That makes sense if you're playing, you know, 1950s rock and roll hits, which is what the Beatles were doing, because that's easy to like bop around and dance to.
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.599
What is the show for VHS ghosts and a live performance?
00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:30.799
That's what I'm trying to figure out.
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.440
Could you guys like have a painter?
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:59.680
Yeah, no, it's just I really think that like, you know, and this is kind of what I've been trying to work on more lately, is just uh I don't know, kind of like showing up more authentically in the live show because I think that you know, if you can find your niche and show up authentically, I think that the people who enjoy that will eventually, you know, come to those shows.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:02.400
Um so yeah, I don't know.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:08.240
I I I I don't even know fully what what the VHS Ghost show should look like yet.
00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.559
But well here's here's what I can offer for you.
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:11.359
I've done this once.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.519
I did it with uh the band Soft Cheese.
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:25.920
Uh uh if you need to, if there's a projector that I can hook a computer into, I am willing to do Super Mario 64 speedruns in the back of your uh show for the entire show.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:27.440
I'll do 40 minutes.
00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:28.240
Maybe that's what I'm doing.
00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:30.240
It might be.
00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.640
You know, I can do a nice 16-star run.
00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:34.640
I can get sub-20 pretty uh-huh.
00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:39.119
You know, if I'm on a good time on a good pace, I can get sub-20, but it'll be under 25 minutes.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:46.319
And uh maybe we can line it up so at the very end, you finish your song when I get the last Bowser throw, and everyone will be like, wow, that was planned.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:50.480
That's like how they actually just stretched because Kyle missed, he just kept missing throws.
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:51.839
He just kept missing throws.
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:54.640
Yeah, no, maybe that's what it's missing, you know.
00:19:54.880 --> 00:19:57.759
You know, mediocre Mario 64 speedrun.
00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:10.880
That was yeah, so this is like your COVID experience is like, all right, dealing with cancer, dealing with your own mortality, dealing with the human condition, putting it into music, crafting songs that were gonna reach other people.
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:16.799
I speed ran Super Mario 64 to the point where I got kind of good at it.
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:21.440
That could be that could be the missing puzzle piece that I've been looking for, you know.
00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:25.599
Uh that offer stands for anybody in Portland, by the way.
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.480
I would love to uh do more Mario speedruns behind bands.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:30.400
It was really fun for that one show.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:39.839
I was just sitting in the corner because I had to play it on a laptop that's just plugged into the projector, and I just had to sit in the corner while everybody else was watching the band play, you know, and just sweat it out.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.960
That works.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:58.960
Like we we went on tour with uh our friend sports coach not that long ago, and we brought we brought like a video game thing and like a TV, and uh we some we had people playing like during his set, like really old basketball games or something like that.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.000
And it was great, you know?
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.519
You know, get some team deathmatch and like goldeneye or something like that.
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.799
Uh that's what I'm thinking, is like, all right, so what do people do when they listen to your shows?
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.720
They like read, you know.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:20.160
Uh you guys could get small those little standing desk treadmills if people want to just like get some walking in.
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:25.680
You could have uh you could have them read, you could have them uh play little video games or something like that.
00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:32.799
Just like recreate, bring a whole living room set and put it in the audience so that everyone can sit on couches and scroll on their phones.
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:36.480
Yeah, like maybe they just need to be engaged or like doing something, you know.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.519
Yeah, it's just just have the Subway Surfer guy behind you.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:42.640
Exactly.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:45.200
Yeah, something to keep their attention going.
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:48.319
You know, give them homework.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:55.200
Be like everybody here, I'm sorry, while we're playing the set, you're gonna have to write a five page essay on the French Revolution.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:56.319
So uh Yeah.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.759
I will grade them at the end, and if you don't get a passing grade, you have to bade.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.880
Double the entry fee for uh you know, no chat GPT either, guys.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.200
Come on.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:06.480
That's that's good incentive.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.240
You're here to learn, everybody.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.000
Yeah, no, totally.
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:13.920
It's yeah, it's it's a weird thing.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:14.480
I don't know.
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:16.640
I'm still I'm still trying to figure it out.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:19.599
And uh I think I'll get there eventually.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.079
Yeah.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.799
I mean, just if you just keep throwing stuff at the wall.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:33.359
I mean, that's my strategy with all this stuff, is just uh the good news for me is like for you, you have the you have shows that you gotta plan for, you gotta prep for, you gotta write songs, you gotta edit the songs.
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:38.720
If something doesn't work, there's like a lot of time and effort that's sunk into it, and you know, it stays.
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:42.720
Like if you put a song that you're not happy with on the album, it's gonna be on the album forever.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:47.680
Every single thing I do, nobody gives a shit about it in 48 hours.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:51.519
Stuff I posted three days ago, it's gone.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.400
It's gone forever.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:53.119
No one cares.
00:22:53.359 --> 00:23:02.799
So I have this like freedom to go and make a total ass out of myself, and just with the freedom of knowing, it's like one, if it's not good, no one will watch it and it'll disappear forever.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:05.440
Uh, and nothing's gonna be held to my account.
00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:08.079
You know, there are people that comment on my videos all the time.
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:11.839
It's like, oh, I thought you I saw you talking about this the other day.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.079
I didn't even realize this was also you.
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:17.119
Like they've seen me twice and they don't even know it's me, you know?
00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:18.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:44.640
I think there is like an element, you know, or at least I don't know, I think you have to be kind of willing to look dumb in this in this kind of uh or any kind of like artistic endeavor, you know, like uh you have to have that willingness to kind of like fail and uh and even in the live show, you know, you gotta be kind of willing to look dumb a little bit.
00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:45.599
Absolutely.
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.279
I always look at it as uh uh you know, how do you become a humble person?
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:54.960
You like want to be a humble person, best way to do it, humiliate yourself.
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.200
It's the same thing, yeah, exactly.
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:07.359
Uh and it's like uh there's a freedom to being a humble person, which is that like you are now free to kind of humiliate yourself and learn from the humiliation, you know?
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:09.680
Yeah, uh, which I think is really important.
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:16.079
It's it's really easy to kind of go like I'm too scared to look like an idiot to change anything up.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:20.079
Yeah, and then you stop growing, and everything that stops growing is dying, you know?
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:29.680
Yeah, I you know that's something I I still struggle with, you know, especially in like a um like a live live show format, you know.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:36.000
I'm a inherently just very uh kind of like shy person, you know, in my day-to-day life.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:58.640
Um and going on stage and like having everybody just like looking at you for like 45 minutes is like you know, it can be terrible sometimes, like but you know, I I still really uh want to show up authentically, and uh yeah, I think there's a beauty in that, you know.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:15.039
The thing that's nice is you know that uh there's something that you're creating that people are attaching themselves to, and so for you, it's like pushing you to get out of your comfort zone to go be live and sort of try to get that the same authenticity these people are attaching themselves to in your recorded music.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.519
You want to give them the live version as well, the whole version of you as well.
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:34.640
It's just that isn't necessarily in your wheelhouse, but it's like you're yeah, you are being pressured into growing in that way, which I think that's like to me, that's like one of the parts of like when you pick up a guitar and you think, like, oh, I want to go make music or something like that.
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:49.200
The reason that that's so appealing to people is that hey, maybe someday down the line you're gonna be pushed, you're gonna be put into a corner against the part of you that you struggle to like deal with, you know, this idea that you're gonna stand in front of people and get their attention for 45 minutes.
00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:57.519
You're now in the you know, enviable, unenviable position, whoever it depends on who you ask, of being like, Well, people do want to look at you for 45 minutes.
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:58.319
Now what?
00:25:58.559 --> 00:25:59.359
Now what do you do?
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:00.880
It's like that's tough, man.
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:03.599
Yeah, no, it's really tough, you know.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:10.400
It can take a lot out of you if you're not like you know, kind of just naturally built for that.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:18.480
Um, and I would argue that I'm not, but you know, I have a very love-hate relationship with like performing and stuff.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:23.759
It's like I do really love it, but uh sometimes I hate it.
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:48.240
Honestly, man, I I don't think you're alone in that one, but it's also like a lot of the music that I really like is made by people like you who like otherwise can't find ways to be boisterous, otherwise can't maybe they're not the most you know, uh talkative person in the world, and it's like, well, I still have this idea, but this shape of the idea isn't gonna be a conversation.
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.839
The shape of this idea is gonna be like the sound I'm getting out of this recording.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:54.000
That's what the conversation I want to have is.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:54.720
Exactly.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:02.880
That to me is like the most interesting music, and it ends up being made a lot of the times by very introverted people.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:10.799
Yeah, it's like, all right, so now you've you've done this thing and you've you've crafted this piece that speaks to people, that accomplished your goal.
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:17.920
And the goal was to so that you didn't have to talk about yourself, but in achieving your goal, now you got to talk about yourself.
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:23.599
And it's like, oh, there's a there's a poetic irony to that that I yeah, it's it's very ironic, you know.
00:27:23.759 --> 00:27:25.920
I always like talk about that with people too.
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:48.319
It's like it's interesting that like I'm trying to pursue this thing that is inherently like very you know, not introverted, but I consider myself super introverted, and I I don't want attention in my day-to-day life, but uh for whatever reason I I want to do this thing that is the opposite of that.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:58.880
It's just such a bizarre thing because I I find yeah, I find that all the time a lot with like indie rock musicians, they tend to be very introverted, and you know, I I'm more I obviously I talk a lot.
00:27:59.039 --> 00:27:59.599
Listen to me.
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:07.039
This is not it's not it's not abnormal to draw the conclusion that maybe this guy talks too much at parties or something like that.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:15.519
But the thing I always tell my friends that like are introverted is like when we're hanging out in Portland with a bunch of indie rock musicians and they're like, Oh, I'm like so nervous to talk.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.200
I'm like, dude, look around.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.880
Everyone here doesn't want to talk.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:20.240
You're all at the same level.
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:27.519
There's not anyone here that's like having a really good time having a bunch of conversations, like no one here really wants to talk.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:34.160
So take a deep breath and realize like you've dragged everyone to your level, just beat them all with experience, baby.
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.640
It's gonna be nice, it's nice and easy, just you'll be fine.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:38.000
Yeah, exactly.
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:47.119
Yeah, you know, a lot of the times before I perform too, I have to like really fight that kind of like uh imposter syndrome thing, you know.
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:49.039
I I deal with that so heavy.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:56.000
Like, even if it's like I'm playing for people that specifically paid to like see me perform songs.
00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:59.359
I'm like, before I play, I'm like, I don't belong up here.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:00.400
What am I doing?
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:06.880
It's you know, you know, uh I used to work in this uh psych hospital for kids and adolescents, right?
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:25.359
Um, and I had to run a lot of groups for that because you know basically every time you get to the unit, uh everyone would be kind of assigned little jobs that it have to do, and they had me run group a lot because I'm pretty good at getting a crowd of uh depressed teenagers to talk to each other, whatever reason.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:34.640
Uh and like one of the ones that I I kind of used it as like a play, you know, I was not not messing with these kids, but like in the same way that you're talking about trying to figure stuff out.
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:38.799
I was trying to like figure out how to help these people, so I would try new groups, I would make stuff up.
00:29:39.200 --> 00:29:43.519
There was a book of groups, but I like I always wanted to make up my own group thing and we'll go do it.
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:57.279
And one of them was like, I just noticed a lot of these kids that were in this situation were so kind to all of the other kids in the unit, they had such big hearts and such empathy for everyone else, and they just never turned it inward.
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:59.920
Inward, it was incredible bullying and meanness.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:10.400
Yes, yes, and I realized over time it's like, oh, so what's happening with a lot of you guys when you hear a compliment directed at you, you don't allow it in.
00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:14.480
You keep that at a huge distance and you like push to the side.
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:20.480
If anyone says anything negative to you, you grab it, you put it right in the middle of you, and you hold on to it for the rest of your life.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:20.960
Yes.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:25.119
So it's like that alone, so it's like I I just thought of a thing.
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.279
I'm like, this is what we're gonna do as a group today.
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:32.480
You guys are gonna just one at a time, you're gonna turn, you're gonna say something nice to the other person next to you.
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.640
In the first round, I just went, You look nice today.
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:35.680
You're gonna say that to everybody.
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:37.599
Everyone's gonna say the same compliment.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:45.039
And the the the task here is not to say you look nice, the task is to receive the compliment, right?
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:51.039
So for you, the compliment comes in the form of they literally gave you money to see you play.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:51.599
Right.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.400
You you kind of have to let them pay money to see you.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:57.599
Does that make sense?
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:02.720
Like you have to let them give you that compliment as much as you have to give them a show.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:10.640
You have to let them pay you and say that you're good and say that they like you, and you just have to accept that because that's part of it, you know, it's it's tough, but it's part of it.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:15.839
Yeah, and I think it's it's also just like a weird, a weird kind of internet thing, too.
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:24.160
I think, you know, it's like it's hard, it's hard to like it doesn't feel as tangible sometimes over the internet for some reason, you know.
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:26.559
It's like it really connects with me.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:34.240
Uh, you know, when I play a show and I I physically meet somebody, you know, that like has connected to it.
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:39.599
And not that like not that the internet stuff doesn't mean anything, you know.
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:51.359
I still like am very grateful to anytime somebody reaches out, but like it becomes like very uh more real, you know, when I like get to meet these people and stuff.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:56.640
I always view internet connection as a bridge to real life connection, right?
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:08.240
Yeah, the hope is that something you do online eventually results in you and that person that you're getting along with meeting and like getting along and meeting and being friends in real life or something like that, you know.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:08.880
Yeah, totally.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:10.319
That's kind of the hope.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:16.160
And in the absence of that possibility, like if there's some dude from Germany saying he likes your music, you're probably not gonna see him.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:34.160
It's still nice to get the online version of it, but it's like there is this part of you, there's part of everybody that's like, I'm you know, you are an introverted guy making music in your bedroom on the hope that someday you'll play it live, even though you kind of hate playing it live, yeah.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.160
So you can meet the people that like it.
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:42.480
And it's like there's contradictions in every single level of that logic and the actual execution of it.
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.799
But at the end of the day, that is what you want.
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.920
You want to connect with people through music, and it's just hard.
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:48.559
It's hard.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:49.599
Yeah, it's difficult.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:55.920
And I think, you know, it's like I I mean, I think, in my opinion, it's like everybody wants to like connect, you know.
00:32:56.079 --> 00:33:00.400
It's like that I think kind of like almost universal thing.
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:15.599
And I think connecting with these people I already know that I have a connection with, you know, is like a really cool thing because I it kind of gets rid of that uh really nervous introverted feeling that I have when I'm meeting a new person, you know?
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.799
Like because it's like I we have common ground, it's like we connect through this thing, you know.
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:21.440
Oh yeah.
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:25.279
I always tell uh again, a lot of introverted people I know in Portland.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.319
Uh, you've probably met a lot of introverted people yourself, but yeah, yeah.
00:33:28.480 --> 00:33:37.599
I get people that, you know, will text me, uh and like people online now will every once in a while be like, you know, I want to like get involved in my local scene, but I'm like introverted and nervous, and I don't know how I'm gonna talk to these people.
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:41.519
I'm like, go to some small show where there's like 20 people there, right?
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:45.119
And here's the thing this is the part that no one apparently talks about.
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:50.559
If there's 20 people in that show, you guys already have everything in common that matters.
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:56.079
Like you like, you're the kind of person that goes to a show that 20 people are at, you know.
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:56.559
Exactly.
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.519
That's enough in common to have one conversation.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:00.240
Absolutely.
00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:06.720
So you've already like you've literally pushed away everybody else that you have nothing in common with.
00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:12.000
Because you have everybody in that room has one thing in common with you, which is that you're supporting local music.
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:23.599
And like honestly, once you find that, there's a there are a million reasons to support local music, to support independent music, to support some guy you just heard online's music or something like that.
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:35.039
There's a million independent reasons to do that, but the unity that comes from that one solo reason of I want to just support this music, it it is how you find a lot of really cool people.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:40.559
Yeah, I mean that's how I've met like a ton of you know artists that I'm still cool with.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:46.880
Like, you know, I think and like I'll get asked too like, what do you do to like you know, play more shows?
00:34:46.960 --> 00:35:01.199
And like you have to like that's like what you have to do, you know, you have to like build connections with people, not to like, you know, I hope people don't do that for like inauthentic reasons, but well, that's kind of the nice thing about the fact that nobody makes any money off of music anymore.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:02.400
Exactly.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:03.840
What are the inauthentic reasons?
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:13.679
You're gonna do this, it is a ton of work to go to these shows and to play these shows all the time and to see these people and meet them, and and it's like you're not gonna get any money out of it.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:20.559
And so the people that show up time and time again, the people that keep coming back, what they're getting out of it is something authentic.
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:30.880
And I think that it's like the problem is it takes time, it takes going to a lot of shows, it takes going and supporting a lot of different artists until you find the guys that you genuinely like and stuff like that.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:54.639
But I'll tell you, as a guy who's sitting in a basement filled with music equipment from all of our friends, because they practice in our basement, with all these guitars and basses are my wife, my wife's musical instruments because I met her at a house show, and then we got uh our wedding reception was at a friend's house show venue where our friends put on a uh uh a wedding band and played music for us all night.
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:55.920
It's like so cool.
00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:59.360
It was the it's the absolute best thing that's ever happened to me in my entire life.
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:02.480
It's like the rewards for this are really, really high.
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:14.000
It's just for a lot of people, it's like you have to go through the thing you fear the most, which is like I'm gonna go put myself out there and be social and start a bunch of conversations with strangers.
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.239
That is my fucking nightmare.
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:17.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:20.880
But just know that most of the people in that room, that was their nightmare too.
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:22.159
They're also introverted people.
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:27.280
That's why they're listening to indie rock music on a Tuesday night at Turn, Turn, Turn, you know?
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:36.159
Exactly, you know, and yeah, I think I think there's like a beauty in, you know, kind of going back to the like performing in a really authentic way.
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:44.960
It's like, you know, I think like I said, I think everybody wants that connection and wants to like for the most part be authentic and stuff.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:37:02.079
And seeing somebody else do it is like really empowering, and you know, I've toured with people that I envy because of that because they just show up so authentically and give everything they have, and you know, I'm always kind of like striving, I think, for that.
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:03.679
It's a weird thing.
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:11.280
You would think that being authentic in a performance is like a choice that you just go like, oh yeah, I'm gonna like go be authentic on stage.
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:13.360
It's like that's not how it works.
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:14.400
No, not at all.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:16.320
You know?
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:20.239
Uh what has been your experience like on stage?
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.360
Have you felt yourself getting more authentic?
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:24.960
What does that look like or feel like to you?
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:31.519
Because uh the other thing too, the word like authentic in performance, I don't really think you can define that fully.
00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:33.360
It's just something you either know or don't know.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:37.440
So it's like it's a vague concept that you're trying to vaguely achieve.
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:52.960
Yeah, it's I I think it's so you know, it's I think performing is inherently kind of like a uh not like not authentic, but you know, there is like a obviously performative aspect to it because it's a performance, you know.
00:37:53.199 --> 00:38:07.280
Um, and I I think I'm still trying to find what that version looks like for me, you know, because I've seen it with other people and it's like my version isn't gonna look exactly like you know, my friend's version of it.
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.400
Um but you know, it's like I I still struggle with it, you know.
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:24.400
It's like I'll be on stage and I'm feeling those like eyes on me, and it's like I kind of uh tighten up and you know, it's it's really hard to like kind of let go of that.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:42.719
Um, so you know, I may not physically know what it looks like yet, but I think the feeling is going to be that uh losing that tenseness and just kind of letting the music do what it's going to do for me.
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:49.119
Um because at the end of the day, I you know, music affects me in a very like physical way.
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:56.000
So yeah, I guess ideally it's kind of just letting that be whatever it's going to be, you know.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:00.960
I do like the concept of like uh music as being something you physically feel a lot.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:06.079
That is like uh my fate I used to play in college, we had this like practice place.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:06.960
It was called the barn.
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:13.519
It was an old like squash court that was for some reason in the middle of a field, and it had a drum kit and like a marshall stack.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.119
Uh it's where I learned how to play the drums.
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.119
I just beat the shit out of that like drum.
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:23.119
I could sneak in through the window, like I could prop myself up on the door, so I didn't even need to ask anybody for a key.
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:25.679
I would just go in there and play on this Marshall stack.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:29.599
What I always loved was like it was this perfectly cubed room, essentially.
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:34.960
It's this big, you know, there's not really even that much uh sound proofing on it or anything like that.
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:46.079
It was just this big loud, echoey space, and just filling that whole space with noise, with buzz, with like something that I could viscerally feel tingling on my skin.
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:46.639
Yeah.
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.360
Still my favorite thing in the world for music.
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:50.960
It's like just the feeling of it.
00:39:51.280 --> 00:40:16.480
Yeah, and I'm such like a big kind of believer on, I don't know, I feel like um music is such a like um it's almost kind of like a mysterious, like uh weird thing that exists and like for connection and like feeling, and that's why I love drums too, because it feels like such a like um I guess kind of like primal thing, you know, to just like go at some drums.
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:41.840
Like it's just uh when you get into a rhythm on the drums and it's physical and you're like you're sweating and you're fucking hitting the drums hard and just that it's very unlike guitar, which is like it's a totally different musical instrument in my mind, but like drums is primal, it's visceral, it's it's actually you know whereas guitar, it's I like this idea of connection when you said it.
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:45.599
My first thought was like, Yeah, guitar and the the sound waves, right?
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:50.800
Yeah, they give uh form to the space between people, you know?
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:52.320
Like it gives a form.
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:59.679
You actually you can kind of you can now feel the space between that bounces off the walls, that bounces off of people, you know.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:02.400
It's all like a location at the end of the day, right?
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:10.239
You're playing a live show, you are yeah, you feel the eyes on them, but you can really feel the space that they take up when what the sound waves go off of them, you know.
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:11.039
Exactly.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:12.400
Yeah, I just I don't know.
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:26.000
I think that's such a like cool idea, and I I just I kind of like that I don't fully understand it and like I don't you know it's just kind of this like same with like uh songwriting for me.
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:33.760
It's like I don't really know where it comes from half the time, it just is kind of there, and sometimes I'm able to grab it, sometimes I'm not.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:35.760
I don't I don't really get it.
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:42.320
Um, and it's frustrating sometimes, but also like kind of cool and kind of weird.
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:45.760
And um I feel like if you got it, where's the fun?
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:49.920
Like if you're exactly yeah, like you know, mastered or something like that.
00:41:50.000 --> 00:41:50.800
Uh yeah.
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:52.159
What's the fun in that?
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:59.599
I my favorite description of writing a song is uh Jay Mask is another notoriously introverted, doesn't really want to talk that much kind of guy.
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:00.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:02.719
Uh but he described it once as like it's fishing.
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:09.599
You sit on the phone and you mess around, and sometimes you reel something in, and sometimes it's big, and sometimes it's small.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:25.519
And it's like that is exactly my favorite types of uh playing is like when I just sit with a guitar and I'm like, for the first hour, I'm just not I'm not gonna write anything, I'm not even gonna look for anything, I'm just gonna change, constantly change what I'm doing, strum patterns, all that stuff.
00:42:25.599 --> 00:42:30.239
And then after an hour, after you've been fishing for a while, and it's like, now let's see if we can catch something, you know?
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:30.960
Right, yeah.
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:39.280
And it's like, you know, sometimes I'll just stumble across something that like feels a certain way, and like I'm like, okay, this is a thing, maybe.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.880
But yeah, I don't know.
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:49.199
I just I it's kind of cool that it's you know, this like weird, uh almost kind of unpredictable um thing.
00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:53.760
And maybe not, you know, I for me, I can't force it, you know.
00:42:53.840 --> 00:43:01.280
I think some people can probably sit down and like make themselves make something, even if they don't feel super inspired.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.920
Uh, but I'm not that way, you know.
00:43:04.079 --> 00:43:12.320
So it's like um sometimes I lose my mind over like trying to find that like the whatever that thing is.
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:18.880
Um the thing that always killed me was like I just never liked playing anything a second time, you know?
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:19.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:21.199
I just don't like doing it.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:26.480
I always feel like I've I I feel like the first time I play it, it's this beautiful thing.
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:32.559
And then the second time I play it, I ruined it, and then I ruined it again and again and again.
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:34.800
And so it's like the songs that I will play live.
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:40.559
I'm like, I this has to be somewhat good because I've been ruining it for weeks now.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:41.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:51.360
I mean, that's the same kind of reason why sometimes the demo for me is like the thing, you know, because it has the feeling that I can't really recreate sometimes.
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.960
Um how long does it take you to like make a song?
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:57.840
You know, you're you're a bedroom guy, you like sit in the bedroom and do it.
00:43:58.159 --> 00:43:59.840
Do you like rip through it in like an afternoon?
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:01.920
Or is it like a week-long process?
00:44:02.159 --> 00:44:06.480
I was gonna say it's like there's really no telling, you know?
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:16.400
Like sometimes I can like if that feeling is there, I sit down, song is done in like 15 minutes, and like written and boom, done.
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:35.119
And then like other times it's like six months of just like chain, you know, like like going back and being like, I don't like that line, I'm gonna like change it, or like I don't like the way this sounds, and like it's that it just kind of all goes back to the like I don't really understand it, like it's um it's strange, you know.
00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:40.800
Like, you know, sometimes uh people view this as like cooking and you're a chef, yeah, yeah.
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.679
And sometimes people view this, you know, this being art, whatever you want to call it, poetry, whatever.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:48.000
Some people view it as cooking or like you're a mechanic.
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:49.920
Some people are an antenna, right?
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:51.840
And they're just sitting in a field somewhere.
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:58.880
And what the way I look at the antenna people, maybe this is how you feel as well, is like there's already a song out there.
00:44:59.039 --> 00:45:02.480
Yes, it exists, and it's coming through you all of a sudden.
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:07.280
You caught it for a second, you gave it a different form, but it was already there, it was never not there, you know.
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.719
I'm really glad you said that because that reminds me, I'm probably gonna butcher the quote, but it reminds me of this quote.
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:20.000
I think it was like maybe it was Michael Jackson that said something about like, if I don't write that song, Prince is gonna write it.
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:32.480
Like, because it, you know, because it like it exists already, and the antenna, and I if I don't grab it, if I'm not constantly working or like trying and grab it, then someone else is gonna get it.
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:48.960
And I kind of like believe that in a way, you know, it's because it's like and it's this, I think it's the same reason why I feel weird kind of like accepting any praise from songs sometimes, because it's like I really do feel like I just kind of sometimes it works and I just am able to grab it.
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:56.320
I don't really understand it, and I just happened to kind of get it, and um you're a conduit, you're a vessel kind of thing, you know.
00:45:56.480 --> 00:46:04.159
You're not even like you're a ferryman, you know, you're not even really doing anything, you're just bringing it from one place and giving it to another place.
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:15.519
Yeah, and it's so weird, you know, and it's happened like I've you know, I put out um I put out a song, it was probably like six, seven months ago or something.
00:46:15.679 --> 00:46:19.039
I forgot that I wrote it, I found it in my computer.
00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:23.760
I still don't I still don't really have recollection of making it like at all.
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:27.920
Um, and I came back to it and found it and I was like, oh, this is like not bad.
00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:28.719
I like it.
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.639
And um I put it out and it's like done well, you know?
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:33.679
Like nice.
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:47.599
Um yeah, and like people have like latched onto it and like really liked it, and it's just it's so weird, you know, because I just I probably wrote it in like 15 minutes and I don't remember it, but the other part that's it's infuriating it's gotta be low-key infuriating about it.
00:46:47.679 --> 00:46:55.599
It's like it's a song that's good and you like it, and that story you just told me shows you kind of have no idea what's good or not, you know.
00:46:55.840 --> 00:46:57.599
No, I really don't people like it.
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:10.719
I've done it a million times with songs uh where it's like for me, it's like I I I always tell people like I'll I'll record a song until I I hate the song, like I work on it until I absolutely fucking despise the thing, yeah.
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:13.280
And then I just don't listen to it for a couple of weeks.
00:47:13.440 --> 00:47:13.599
Right.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:18.480
And then when I go back and listen to it, now I I don't have any of the part of my brain that like learned to hate it.
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:20.880
But I don't know, you know, if you think about it.
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:41.440
Yeah, sometimes you need that like space from stuff, you know, and it's like I with that, not intentionally, but I gave it a lot of space and I forgot about it, and like time went on, and then I stumbled across it, and I was kind of able to hear it through, you know, a different lens, I guess, and was able to not hate it.
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:47.519
And uh think about it this way whatever your favorite song is in the world right now, right?
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:54.880
If you listen to it 10 times in a row, on that tenth listen, you'd go, I don't want to hear this anymore.
00:47:55.119 --> 00:47:57.599
Yeah, it's like maybe I listen to something else now.
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.880
But when you're making a song, that's what you're doing.
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:03.119
You're listening to it over and over and over.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:07.280
And it's not just listening, it's listening with the most critical mind you can put on.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:13.119
It's like, oh, I don't like you hear like, oh my god, I I kind of flubbed that one note on that chord.
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:13.840
You can hear it.
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:16.000
My pinky wasn't all the way down, and you can hear it.
00:48:16.239 --> 00:48:22.000
Exactly at the time, you're like, it has ruined the song, and I am terrible because of this.
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:27.760
Yeah, no, but it's like, you know, like there's people who like love those like imperfections too, you know.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:29.119
Oh yeah, I'm one of those guys.
00:48:29.360 --> 00:48:33.679
Yeah, and it's like a lot of these songs that I've put out, it's like I did not record them well.
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:38.800
They're all recorded really badly or like on like a half broken like tape machine.
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:56.480
But like, you know, I feel like uh a good song is a good song, even like objectively, of course, not everybody's gonna think it's a good song, but you know, the people that gravitate towards it are gonna like the song because they like the song, not because of you know how exactly it was recorded, I guess.
00:48:56.880 --> 00:49:00.400
One of my thoughts on because I'm a huge lo-fi guy, I love doing that.
00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:10.000
But uh, you know, I was talking to somebody a while back where I was just saying, like, you know, a weird thing about somebody that records their own music, that plays their own music, right?
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:22.000
Is that objectively, some of my favorite experiences listening to music is just listening to me listen to the voice memos of my own songs, right?
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:33.920
Yeah, when you get a good voice memo, it's a song, it's like you you know it's good, you really like it, and you put the phone down and you recorded it, then the next day you're like walking around the grocery store and you're like, Well, let's see if it actually was good.
00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.920
That feeling of like, oh man, that is so good.
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:40.320
Like I've actually got something quality, yeah.
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:43.039
Mix with the quality of like it's just an iPhone recording.
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:49.280
Yeah, so like I have this love in my heart for that type of modern lo-fi of like it was just a phone on a chair.
00:49:49.519 --> 00:49:50.880
Yeah, I love that, you know?
00:49:51.119 --> 00:49:52.320
No, I love that stuff too.
00:49:52.400 --> 00:50:04.159
A lot of the stuff that got me into making my own music was that, like, you know, like Elvis Depressely and like um there's this other band uh from I think New York, uh he goes by Kitchen.
00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:05.599
I don't know if you've ever heard of Kitchen.
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:12.079
Yeah, um, I think his name is James, uh, but like so like the songs are so good.
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:17.760
They're recorded super low-fi, like it's like almost sometimes like hard to hear what's going on.
00:50:17.840 --> 00:50:21.199
It's like that fuzzy, warm, but whatever.
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:25.519
Um, but I just like I love it so much, you know.
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:31.119
It's uh it creates this uh, you know, I I've described uh You're living all over me, another Dinosaur Jr.
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:31.840
reference all the time.
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:37.360
But what I love about that album is like I love Dinosaur Jr.'s music, but that album feels like a swamp, right?
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:38.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:45.039
Everything bleeds into it, you know, the guitars are layered over each other in a way that doesn't really care for the other guitar at all.
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.320
It's not like oh, this part and then this part, it's just two slapped on top.
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:53.440
And it's like it's a swamp where it's like okay, there's so much happening in a swamp.
00:50:53.599 --> 00:50:58.400
There's mud and there's reeds and there's water and there's you know dirt and grime and all that.
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:00.719
But it all together is just swamp.
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:03.760
You can't separate any of these parts from each other at any point.
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:14.239
And it's like that's what I like what Lo-Fi does is it it creates an entity outside of the song itself, exactly kind of shines a light on like imperfection is part of this, you know.
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:20.400
Yeah, and I I personally love kind of listening to something and like feeling like I'm in the room, you know.
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:28.079
And I it's like I think that's like you know, obviously, like Duster had a huge like resurgence uh with like TikTok and everything.
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:28.480
Yeah.
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:44.880
Um, and it's like you know, super lo-fi, like that old stuff from like the 90s or whatever, but like great songs, you know, and like people yeah, so it's like people like gravitate towards it and they don't care that it's like you know, lo-fi or whatever.
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:51.360
It's um well their whole thing, uh I actually just talked to another or Elvis De Presley about this.
00:51:51.519 --> 00:52:05.440
Uh depending on which one comes out first, uh their whole thing about like you know, having to wait 20 years for the world to shape itself in a way that Duster can now fit into it, you know?
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:10.320
Yeah, like when Duster came out when it originally came out, it's just kind of a lo-fi album.
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:11.920
It no one really notices it, you know.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.079
All right or whatever, and it sticks around with a few with a group of people that really enjoy it.
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:18.880
And then what happens is the world invents TikTok.
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:25.039
And in TikTok, there is like your music, this need for fonts on videos.
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:35.280
You need this way to color everything that's happening in a video, and all of a sudden that analog nature of Duster becomes the most important thing in the world for Duster, you know?
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:43.599
Yeah, and it's like it trips me out to think too, like when I really like think about like how that happened for them, it's like, how old are those songs now?
00:52:43.679 --> 00:53:00.559
Like, I'm just imagining like putting a song out now, and then like 20 years from now or something crazy like that, it's you know, this massive thing that like a new generation of people like fall in love with, and it's it's just so weird, it's so crazy.
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:02.880
That's you know, like you were talking about earlier.
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:22.000
Like, you don't know why this works, you don't know why music, why your music connects, why you even write the songs that you write, and it's like yeah, I think this is the why the reason that people devote their entire lives to music, though, is that the not knowing, the infinite not knowing, the fact that you constantly have to keep churning in your head.
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:25.679
I thought this is how it worked, yeah, but it's not how it worked.
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:26.559
So, what now?
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:36.400
Like it music itself will constantly give you a new perspective on everything, every single part of life will come reflecting that.
00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:41.039
And it's like, I don't know, it's it's just it's why I've spent so much of my life doing this.
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:43.280
Yeah, because that part of it fascinates me, you know?
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:44.239
Yeah, me too.
00:53:44.320 --> 00:54:00.159
And I think that like it kind of almost I don't know if this will make sense, but it kind of like forces you to grow in a way, like as you, you know, because it's like the way I make music for me through the years has kind of continued to change, and I kind of have to like reshape things to figure out the new way that it's gonna work.
00:54:00.320 --> 00:54:12.079
And you know, I'm kind of in a period of that right now where it's like, you know, I'm not having like the things aren't really clicking, and I'm trying to, you know, not uh not force that.
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:18.960
And I think maybe, you know, maybe the way it's gonna work is gonna look different than it did like six months ago or something.
00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:21.920
Um well there's also this element of like, right?
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:25.360
Uh you're talking about like you have a way that you like to record music already.
00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:27.199
You know it's something you know that works, right?
00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:31.440
Yeah, but weirdly enough, kind of paradoxically, right?
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:37.199
Part of the reason that that way worked was because you were trying to figure out a way for this to work.
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:49.840
And like the struggle between oh, I I want to figure out like a form that I can replicate and form actually coming into existence isn't there when you just have the form, right?
00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:57.440
So if you just have the form, you don't have the struggle of like trying to decipher what the form is, which in its own right, like kind of destroys it.
00:54:57.519 --> 00:55:05.039
So now it's like, oh, even though now you have this thing that works, you kind of have to break it to actually bring it back to the state in which it works again.
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:13.039
And that's a very odd thing to realize, and then to you know, that's an applicable lesson for every aspect of everybody's life forever, you know?
00:55:13.280 --> 00:55:31.679
Yeah, and it's you know, it can be like a really frustrating thing too if you let it, but you know, and on top of trying to just like cut through the noise with your music as well in today's kind of uh you know, the world of today with the internet and stuff is a whole other like a whole other discussion, I think.
00:55:32.000 --> 00:55:35.199
Dude, you're telling me, man, I think about the internet all the time these days, man.
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:38.000
Yeah, I lose my mind on it sometimes, you know.
00:55:38.079 --> 00:55:39.840
I'm like absolutely dude.
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.519
You know, and I haven't even like I'm not even like this huge artist or anything.
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.000
I'm very fortunate even just to have what I have.
00:55:46.159 --> 00:55:52.079
Um, but you know, it can really like kind of drive you mad if if you let it, you know.
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:53.760
I mean, it's designed to do that.
00:55:53.840 --> 00:56:04.079
I my favorite phrase for the internet as it exists in 2026 and kind of all of culture as it exists in 2026, is uh the dictatorship of the now.
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:08.719
That like everything, like everything is about the immediacy of the right now.
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:14.320
And it's like what I was talking earlier about, like I make these reels that aren't important a week later, you know?
00:56:14.559 --> 00:56:19.199
That's like my life, everything I make, if I if I stop posting for six months, I'm done.
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:20.719
Everything I've done is gone.
00:56:21.039 --> 00:56:42.800
And that's a really like, you know, that's I think the thing I don't like the most about the kind of today's internet thing is it's like it kind of puts you in this spot where you feel, and I don't think it's true, but it can really feel like if you aren't producing something new every so often, like you're gonna kind of just be forgotten in like old news or whatever.
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:49.440
And it's like it puts this like you know, really big pressure on just like constantly churning out stuff, you know.
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:54.480
And I think it's like so important to kind of like have breaks if you need them.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:57.760
And oh yeah, you know, I that's what I'm trying to do now.
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:11.679
It's like I'm trying to just, you know, relax and like let it kind of come back when it wants to and like focus on some other stuff, but you know, it it is hard to not feel like you're going to you know just be forgotten.
00:57:11.760 --> 00:57:19.119
Um well, because you you also know, like admin, I put all this work into getting to this spot, and then you're like, oh, I'm gonna take a week off and it's all gonna be gone.
00:57:19.280 --> 00:57:29.679
Like, I just can't possibly but like that's just uh that is that the the way I kind of think about it is like, well, that is that is what it is, you know.
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:32.639
It's like this is the world that you live in.
00:57:32.880 --> 00:57:45.519
You can it's totally right to bitch about this and point this out, and especially with like music, where so much of the reason that people like so many of these different albums that they listen to is because they weren't constantly updating with the newest song.
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:51.280
When you were in high school, you had an album that you listened to non-stop for like a month and a half, yeah, you know, maybe six months.
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.760
Some people fall in love with an album for a year, you know, and it's the only thing they listen to.
00:57:55.920 --> 00:58:00.880
But now it's like everything, it's so frictionless to go get the next album, you know?
00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:06.639
It's so frictionless to switch the next the album will literally finish playing and then start playing different songs immediately, you know.
00:58:06.719 --> 00:58:35.519
You don't even have that choice on it to replay uh yeah, it's just everything all the time kind of thing all the time, you know, and that's it's gonna change how people relate to this stuff and it's gonna change how you relate to making it, but the I think the beauty of art or whatever is like regardless of the how the form shifts and what the the pressures are in the artist right now, the good in it has a way of expressing itself through whatever form is being forced upon it, you know.
00:58:35.679 --> 00:58:43.119
Yeah, even in the height of you know mass-produced music or something like that, there's still parts of it that are like this is the good, this is why people like music.
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:52.159
Yeah, and you know, I think it's important too, and I still have to remind myself of this, but like, you know, if any artists are listening or whatever, I don't know.
00:58:52.239 --> 00:58:54.639
I think it just goes back to the like authenticity thing.
00:58:54.719 --> 00:59:14.159
It's like, you know, just like putting stuff out that like really feels authentic to you, and I don't know, I think that's like just so important instead of like quantity, you know, just like uh if I don't know, I'm just not gonna like force like could I force like an album out right now?
00:59:14.320 --> 00:59:19.039
Like probably, but it's like is it gonna feel like super authentic to me?
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:20.800
Like, probably not, you know.
00:59:20.960 --> 00:59:30.000
So it's like you know, I'm gonna put stuff out when I feel compelled and uh moved by what I've made.
00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:32.400
Um so yeah, I don't know.
00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:34.880
I think that's like just super important.
00:59:35.360 --> 00:59:42.639
The thing I always think about is uh, you know, if you are an artist and you're trying to figure out like what you're making music for and you're like, oh, I want to find an audience.
00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:48.000
There's somebody probably listening to this right now that's like, man, I would kill to be where Brandon is right now.
00:59:48.159 --> 01:00:02.159
You know, it's like look at every artist history interview in history, they all get to the same point where it's like at the end of the day, they go, I really at the end of the day am just making music for me and the void, and all the other stuff is built off of that.
01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:07.599
But like everything that I've ever made, I thought it was for this, I thought it was for that, I thought it would give me this, I thought it would give me that.
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:15.840
It was just me making music in the void, and like you have to come to terms with that at some point, and it's terrifying.
01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:32.960
Yeah, and that honestly, I think that was like one of the scariest kind of like realizations for me, like as an artist, is you know, when I was because like it's so easy to keep moving the goalpost, you know, if like you're kind of chasing this um, you know, like external validation thing.
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:42.719
It's like I remember when I first released music and it was like, you know, on Spotify, the like, oh, if you don't have a thousand streams, it'll show under a thousand.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:47.599
And it was like oh yeah, yeah, it was like such a big goal of mine to get past that.
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:55.599
And it was like, you know, I remember finally doing it, and then it was like, well, you know, what if it was like 10,000 or something?
01:00:56.000 --> 01:01:03.760
And and it just keeps going and it never stops, it it literally never stops unless you decide that it does.
01:01:03.920 --> 01:01:12.880
It's like I I also remember thinking like a million streams was like never gonna happen for me, totally impossible.
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:18.320
And and then I literally did it, and I think I was like pretty excited for a day.
01:01:18.559 --> 01:01:29.599
Yep, and then it kind of moved to something else, and it was like, well, my top five aren't all a million or whatever, and it's just you know, it's like it's uh yeah, it just keeps moving.
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:40.239
Um one of uh one of my favorite passages from uh what is my favorite book, probably, uh Infinite Jess, which is a very pretentious thing to say, but I love that book.
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:42.400
I've I've read it four times.
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:44.400
I'm a fucking dork again.
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:46.239
A huge dork.
01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:56.960
Uh but there's a part in the book where there's a kid in the tennis academy, he's like, you know, there's this high-level tennis academy, these kids that are very good at tennis, whatever.
01:01:57.119 --> 01:02:05.679
And one of the kids is like, I he's struggling because he wants to be a famous tennis player so badly that it's like making him play worse because he just wants it.
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:08.880
He feels like being famous tennis player is gonna validate everything's life.
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:20.639
And the other character in the book is like, you think that the amount that you want that, that the amount that you care about it, that the like the amount of love you're pouring into this idea, right?
01:02:21.039 --> 01:02:24.800
You think in getting it, it'll reverse back on you, right?
01:02:24.960 --> 01:02:30.800
Yeah, that like eventually it's gonna turn and it's gonna give you the same amount of love you've poured into it backwards.
01:02:30.960 --> 01:02:32.400
Yeah, that's not how it works.
01:02:32.719 --> 01:02:38.639
When you get there, if you do get there, you're not gonna, it's not gonna be years and years of love and admiration.
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:42.239
It's like you said, you're gonna get to a million, you're gonna give yourself a little fist pump.
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:44.960
Maybe you get the large fry as opposed to the small fry that day.
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.119
Yeah, you know?
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:49.840
And then the next day you wake up and you still you.
01:02:50.000 --> 01:03:06.800
It's yeah, it's like at the end of the yeah, at the end of the day, it's like if you don't like really like develop that like you know, love for like yourself and like what you're doing, it's like it's never gonna feel it's never gonna feel like you imagine it does in your head, you know.
01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:17.280
It's like you think, oh, if I hit that million, like I'm set, I'm gonna be so good, I'm not gonna ever like feel bad about myself again.
01:03:17.360 --> 01:03:19.920
And it's like it just does not work that way, you know.
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:27.679
It's not it's a and honestly, every single person that's ever gotten the thing that you want right now will say the exact same thing.
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:30.400
And then the the ones with a level head will say the same thing.
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:44.000
Basically, what you've been saying this whole time, which is just like, hey, it's still awesome and wild and crazy that people love my music and that they come out while I'm trying to figure out how to make the edit of the show at more entertaining for them.
01:03:44.239 --> 01:03:52.960
Yeah, like they're they're they still they love my music that much, and I never take for a second take for granted the love that they're giving me on that thing.
01:03:53.119 --> 01:04:06.000
Yeah, but the reality of the situation is that the love that they're pouring into this doesn't have this sort of reciprocal amount of like self-satisfaction, you know, it's just I appreciate the love that you're giving, but I don't receive all of it.
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:07.920
Most of it's still in the air, you know?
01:04:08.159 --> 01:04:13.280
Yeah, because it's like you know, you can get all these like compliments and stuff, but if you don't even believe it, you know.
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:24.480
Yeah, I mean that part of it's like you, you know, you're either like you just like tell your, you know, you just create these like narratives of like, uh, they don't mean that, or like uh it's it's not true, you know.
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:37.280
And it's if you also if you go in the opposite direction and you do believe every time somebody tells you you're awesome or amazing, that is also gonna feel incredibly weird because you're gonna walk away from it going like I am literally the greatest thing that ever happened, you know?
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:38.159
Yeah, yeah.
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:40.559
You know, it's not true in its inverse, you know?
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.960
Yeah, it's like both both uh ends of the spectrum are not good, you know.
01:04:45.119 --> 01:04:56.719
So it's trying to find that like middle that middle ground where you you know you can believe the things that you know they're telling you and uh be a good person as well.
01:04:56.960 --> 01:04:58.239
Like, you know.
01:04:58.639 --> 01:05:01.760
In the immortal words of the band Local H, right?
01:05:01.920 --> 01:05:03.679
An ego might not be that bad.
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:05.119
It should be something I should have.
01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:15.599
I always think about that where it's like because I mean I've I've now been stopped on the street a couple of times for people to be like, hey, you're that guy that makes videos, right?
01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:18.000
Yeah, and that's a weird feeling, right?
01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:19.840
It's an incredibly weird feeling.
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:24.480
And I also I don't want to be, you know, we're talking about authentic people and I want to be an honest person.
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:32.000
Every single time somebody's done it, I've walked away being like, I am by far the coolest person that has ever lived in the entire fucking world.
01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:34.239
No, it's like amazing about it.
01:05:34.719 --> 01:05:42.480
It's great, you know, and I think yeah, and it's like I think it's okay to like feel good about you know getting that like validation.
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:52.239
Like I think that's you know, because it's like I've also like I've gone to concerts or like whatever, like around town and like been recognized a couple times, and it's like that's great.
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:53.840
Like, of course that feels good.
01:05:54.000 --> 01:05:57.920
Like that's sick that like somebody like to admit that it feels good.
01:05:58.239 --> 01:05:58.880
I hate to admit it.
01:06:00.480 --> 01:06:01.440
You wanted that.
01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:04.159
You wanted people to come up and say nice things to you.
01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:05.440
It's okay to have wanted that.
01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:06.559
That's like a normal thing.
01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:08.000
That's a normal validating reason.
01:06:08.159 --> 01:06:09.599
It doesn't make you a narcissist or whatever.
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:09.840
No.
01:06:10.079 --> 01:06:10.559
It can.
01:06:10.719 --> 01:06:11.519
It absolutely can.
01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:19.039
You can let it do that, but like I think it's fine to like think that's a cool thing that can happen.
01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:20.400
It's like it's sick.
01:06:20.480 --> 01:06:22.079
But but it's some middle ground.
01:06:22.159 --> 01:06:22.880
You know, you have to.
01:06:23.039 --> 01:06:35.519
I think the big thing that I would say, because I'm assuming a lot of people that like your music are probably a little bit more introverted, and it's like regardless of whether or not you're like a relatively well-known musician, you are Brendan.
01:06:35.679 --> 01:06:42.000
Like there's something in your life that people are complimenting you on right now that you're just not letting them do it.
01:06:42.079 --> 01:06:43.920
You're not letting them compliment you.
01:06:44.079 --> 01:06:47.039
You know, I tell people this all the time about birthday parties.
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:48.159
I hate my birthday.
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:49.599
Most people hate their fucking birthdays.
01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:50.639
Totally, totally.
01:06:50.960 --> 01:06:51.679
Not about you.
01:06:51.840 --> 01:06:52.559
It's not about you.
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:57.920
One day of the year, your friends get to like come to dinner with you and tell you that you're special.
01:06:58.320 --> 01:06:59.519
Because they think you're special.
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:01.280
They they're your friends, they like you.
01:07:01.440 --> 01:07:01.519
Yeah.
01:07:01.679 --> 01:07:06.719
And there's no other socially acceptable way for them to actually gush about you a little bit without making it weird.
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:06.960
Yeah.
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:16.079
And so you have to eat the uncomfortableness of the birthday because your friends have you want your friends to tell you nice they you want them to be able to say nice things.
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:16.320
Yeah.
01:07:16.559 --> 01:07:17.760
They have to get that out too.
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:21.199
And so you just gotta practice being a little bit more receptive to the compliment.
01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:21.920
Yeah, it's tough.
01:07:23.280 --> 01:07:26.559
Yeah, and it's something I've like really tried to work on.
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:29.039
And you know, again, I've been like so lucky.
01:07:29.199 --> 01:07:39.760
Like I um it's just a it's like a really cool thing if you let it, if you like really like accept it and not like a you know, narcissistic way or whatever.
01:07:39.840 --> 01:07:50.480
Um that's the other thing too that I always get on people, it's like, well, well, maybe the first couple times you do it in a narcissistically way, you'll get better at doing it in a less narcissistic way.
01:07:50.639 --> 01:07:57.679
Like, don't be like, oh, uh, you know, in the same way that you're trying to figure out how to play the live set by going out and being like, I'm gonna go try some stuff.
01:07:58.159 --> 01:08:03.599
You have to like fail at receiving a compliment, fail at not being a little too narcissistic.
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:05.360
Let the ego take over a little bit.
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:06.559
Yeah, it's okay.
01:08:06.719 --> 01:08:11.119
There's no, it's not Star Wars where it's like the dark side and now you're a Sith.
01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:12.559
That's not how it works.
01:08:12.800 --> 01:08:21.680
Yeah, well, thankfully, you know, it's like for me, anytime it does hit, you know, it really just kind of, if anything, like just makes me more like emotional or something, you know.
01:08:21.840 --> 01:08:38.960
It's like like I had um I was touring in Texas with my uh my friends uh beach vacation, and um it I think it was San Antonio, this like dad brought his daughter, I think she was like 12 or something, and like they both liked my music.
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:53.279
And she like she gave me like a gift thing, like she wrote me a note and made me like a like a wristband that like you know, the ones with the letters, and it was like this, you know, like just so uh hard to believe, like so sweet.
01:08:53.520 --> 01:09:01.039
Um, and I like still like keep the bracelet sometimes when I like play, and it's like stuff like that is like so cool.
01:09:01.520 --> 01:09:04.640
Oh yeah, and just that stuff's incredibly meaningful, you know?
01:09:04.880 --> 01:09:12.479
Yeah, so meaningful and like a great reminder of you know, um it's not like fully really about me, you know.
01:09:12.720 --> 01:09:19.439
Like like you said, man, you're an antenna, and it's like because you made yourself into an antenna, right?
01:09:19.840 --> 01:09:41.520
Yeah, you gave this girl this uh you know, and you gave her this experience with music, and you remember being like 12, 13 years old, the moment the music goes from something in the background to something important to you, yeah, that is uh such a great experience for a lot of people, and it's like, oh, you you were that for her, and then maybe she'll be that for some other person in the future, you know?
01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:42.000
Right.
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:45.039
And it's just it's also it's like a good reminder too.
01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:57.359
Like when I say it's not about me, it's like she's not listening to those songs and being like Brandon's such a like sick, like what a sick guy he is, like he's so cool and like blah blah blah.
01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:19.760
It's like it's it's like uh a song and like you know, yeah, uh an artist or whatever, like um so it kind of just like maybe having that make it easier for me to accept that like a compliment or whatever is like it's not really about the me, you know, um it's this thing.
01:10:20.479 --> 01:10:30.960
Um the way I kind of look at it is uh I heard somebody describe parenthood to me this way where it's like you your parents don't take care of you so that you take care of them, right?
01:10:31.119 --> 01:10:33.520
Your parents take care of you so you take care of your kids.
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:35.279
And it's like the same thing with music.
01:10:35.359 --> 01:10:42.960
It's like yeah, the bands that you loved that got you into making music didn't do it so that you turn around and tell them how great they are.
01:10:43.439 --> 01:10:48.159
They would do it so that when the next little kid comes around, you're gonna inspire them to make more music.
01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:53.520
And it's a waterfall, it's not, you know, it's not ping pong, it's just a waterfall, it just keeps going forward.
01:10:53.840 --> 01:10:56.399
Yeah, and you got to be a part of that for this kid, you know.
01:10:57.840 --> 01:11:00.159
You know, that's the the hope, you know.
01:11:00.239 --> 01:11:03.760
It's like, at least for me, it's like that's I did my job, you know.
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:18.560
Like for you know, I gave like music for me has been like that and like really helped me, you know, and it's like if I can like do that for somebody else, then it's like I feel like that's kind of a win, you know, like it's a huge win.
01:11:18.800 --> 01:11:27.600
And the thing is that they uh like you know, to get more mystical or magical or whatever, it's like that is uh that is eternal life, right?
01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:30.239
Like music is eternal life because it's just gonna keep going forward.
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:35.279
That like your song, right, is downstream of the first song, right?
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:46.640
And that's the eternal life of music, is that it just keeps passing forward, and that like that recognition of the forward nature of this gift is the recognition of eternity.
01:11:46.880 --> 01:11:47.439
And I love that.
01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:52.640
And to me, that's like that's the kind of stuff that uh honestly it helps me sleep better at night.
01:11:52.960 --> 01:12:04.079
Yeah, and it's uh it's a weird but like you know, kind kind of like uh hauntingly beautiful thing that it's like you know, these songs will still be here when I'm not, you know.
01:12:04.159 --> 01:12:09.680
It's like it can still have that potential, and it's like that's like crazy, you know?
01:12:09.840 --> 01:12:13.119
Like that's also just like the song itself, right?
01:12:13.359 --> 01:12:18.239
Yeah, you can die, but then somebody 20 years later listens to one of your songs and then writes a new song.
01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:19.920
Your song's now in that new song.
01:12:20.239 --> 01:12:20.720
Yeah, right?
01:12:21.039 --> 01:12:27.680
Your song is in all it's just it it even if the song itself is forgotten, the song can't die.
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:29.840
It's it's it's in the stream, it's part of the water.
01:12:30.319 --> 01:12:34.399
It's part of it's part of the the big uh mysterious thing, you know.
01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:36.560
Big mysterious thing, baby.
01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:51.600
But it's like so that's the thing where it's it's very nice to recognize that, yeah, but getting a million views isn't gonna give you the w rushing weight of satisfaction of all of the stuff we just talked about.
01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:54.319
It's not gonna give you it's not gonna validate all this stuff.
01:12:54.720 --> 01:13:06.000
It's uh it's a less giddy excitement and more a little bit of a fist pump and then like a a moment with the sublime, you know, a moment with everything.
01:13:06.319 --> 01:13:11.840
And you get to sit there and it's it's good or bad or whatever it is, but you get that moment and it's nice.
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:22.239
Yeah, that's always how it's you know been, and uh that's a good like way of describing it as like it's a little fist bump, and then it's kind of on to the next thing or whatever.
01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:38.880
Um but yeah, it's like until you like kind of work on that, like uh, you know, kind of being able to like accept those like things, those compliments, and like believing that stuff, it's like those goals aren't really gonna like hold weight or whatever, you know.
01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:43.760
It's like it's kind of just gonna be a kind of cool thing that happens real quick and that's it.
01:13:44.079 --> 01:13:48.960
You gotta let yourself it's not narcissistic to let yourself feel good about something you wanted and achieving it, you know?
01:13:49.199 --> 01:13:49.840
Yeah, totally.
01:13:50.000 --> 01:13:50.399
Exactly.
01:13:50.880 --> 01:13:53.920
I bring up this thing every once in a while from uh Super Smash Bros.
01:13:54.079 --> 01:13:55.279
melee player Zayn.
01:13:56.000 --> 01:13:59.279
Uh he was playing friendlies against other player Mango.
01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:04.399
Uh and when Zayn would do something cool, he'd literally go, Hell yeah, Zayn, that was great.
01:14:04.560 --> 01:14:05.600
And he'd compliment himself.
01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:07.359
And Mango's like, Why do you do that?
01:14:07.520 --> 01:14:11.600
He's like, Well, because I'm art, I I it's very easy for me to be critical of myself.
01:14:11.680 --> 01:14:18.239
Yeah, but I have to remember that like if I did something that I thought was really cool, I earned the right to feel good about it because I thought it was cool.
01:14:18.319 --> 01:14:20.399
And so I'm like, you know, give us a little compliment.
01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:22.560
I'm like, dude, that's smart.
01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:23.680
I hadn't thought about it that way.
01:14:23.920 --> 01:14:27.920
Now when I have a video and it does well, I tell myself, good job, Kyle.
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:29.680
You're smart and handsome and charming, buddy.
01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:30.479
And you know what?
01:14:30.640 --> 01:14:33.520
Sometimes you gotta do that until you believe it.
01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:35.920
You know, yeah, make it till you make it, baby.
01:14:36.239 --> 01:14:38.800
That's what I've I have learned in therapy.
01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:41.439
So it does help, man.
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:42.000
It does help.
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:44.880
You gotta just you just gotta do it until you believe it, you know.
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:46.159
It'll it'll get easier.
01:14:46.239 --> 01:14:49.680
Whoever's listening, whatever that is, and just you know, I don't know.
01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:51.279
I I I enjoyed this conversation.
01:14:51.359 --> 01:14:52.479
I think this is me too.
01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:54.000
Probably a good place to stop.
01:14:54.159 --> 01:14:58.640
You got anything coming up uh at any point in the next couple of weeks or months?
01:14:58.800 --> 01:15:00.479
Because I don't know when this is coming out, baby.
01:15:00.800 --> 01:15:08.800
Yeah, I mean on the shorter side, I'm playing Seattle July 2nd, but it you know, might not be out by then.
01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:13.520
Um, and then I'm going back to Seattle uh the end of July.
01:15:13.600 --> 01:15:16.399
I think it's the 31st, maybe.
01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:19.840
Um, and then I think I'm playing Portland the day before that.
01:15:20.079 --> 01:15:20.880
Um nice.
01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:22.000
Where are you playing in Portland?
01:15:22.479 --> 01:15:26.319
Uh I think it's at Have You Been to Atlanta Lounge?
01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:27.119
Yes.
01:15:27.439 --> 01:15:28.800
On Mississippi.
01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:31.039
Yes, oh uh the the pizza place.
01:15:31.359 --> 01:15:33.600
Yeah, it's a cool, it's a nice little uh Yeah.
01:15:33.760 --> 01:15:36.640
That place is like come uh around.
01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:42.560
It I remember when I first lived here, it was like that was uh the Kelly's Olympian of the East Side.
01:15:42.720 --> 01:15:43.520
Yes, yeah, yeah.
01:15:43.680 --> 01:15:46.399
You know, uh but now I'm like, oh, I I've seen a couple shows there.
01:15:46.479 --> 01:15:48.000
I'm like, oh this is sweet, I like this.
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:51.760
No, yeah, it's uh it's uh it's come a long way and uh seen some great shows there.
01:15:51.920 --> 01:15:56.560
So you know, um yeah, not too far from my house, and I do like pizza, so I'll try to make it.
01:15:56.720 --> 01:15:57.600
Hey, well, you know what?
01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:00.399
Guest list for sure if you if you hit me up.
01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:08.560
Oh baby, that's that's what you're not worried about being uh married to my wife who's a uh musician as well.
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:13.600
If I walk around carrying an amp, I can go into any show in America.
01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:14.479
That's honestly true.
01:16:18.560 --> 01:16:19.119
All right, here you go.
01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:21.680
Yeah, especially on that smaller level, you're fine.
01:16:26.560 --> 01:16:27.199
All right, man.
01:16:27.359 --> 01:16:29.520
Um, well, yeah, uh, where can they follow you?
01:16:29.680 --> 01:16:30.720
Plug your socials.
01:16:31.039 --> 01:16:34.239
Uh yeah, my my Instagram is just uh what is it?
01:16:34.319 --> 01:16:39.920
I think it's VHS dot ghosts with uh two little underscores.
01:16:40.239 --> 01:16:46.399
And uh I think I'm pretty sure my TikTok is the same if anybody is TikToking.
01:16:46.640 --> 01:16:51.680
Um and uh yeah, I think I think that's about it.
01:16:52.000 --> 01:16:52.720
Thanks, man.
01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:53.359
That's awesome.
01:16:53.520 --> 01:16:57.920
But yeah, I'll uh I'll probably see you around town uh something out of me the next time you see.
01:16:58.319 --> 01:16:59.199
Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:16:59.920 --> 01:17:02.880
In the corner somewhere just babbling incoherently.
01:17:06.479 --> 01:17:09.199
It was lovely talking to you and uh touch here.
01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:11.279
Thanks, man.