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[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, a place for healing and hope for couples impacted by betrayal, resulting from infidelity and or sex addiction.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Your host is Marnie Breaker, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified sex addiction therapist, and founder of the Center for Relational Healing in Los Angeles and San Diego, California.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The helping couples heel podcasts was launched in 2021, with the intention of bringing hope to couples all over the world, who are desperately trying to recover from the devastating impact of betrayal.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Realizing how many people the podcast was reaching, and that we could offer even more support to our listeners.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Marni Co-founded Helping Couples Huel, which has since grown into a global online coaching organization.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is a foundation of all the work that we do at Helping Couples Huel.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Marni brings over a decade of experience and expertise in the field of betrayal trauma and is honored to support you wherever you may be in your healing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you've lost hope, you've come to the right place.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, they can slow deep breath and let's begin with the helping couples here podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, everyone.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Helping Couples Hill Podcast.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This is Marny, and today we are talking about coming home to your own body.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Something that I believe is essential for true healing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Healing both as an individual, as well as healing a relationship that has been traumatized by betrayal.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I hear so often from couples who feel stuck.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They're doing the work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the groups.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They're reading the books.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Listening to the podcast, all the things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But their nervous systems are still stuck in what I call the free fall of triggers and defensiveness and chaos.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I hear so often that they feel like they're on this hamster wheel just going around and around and around.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's exhausting and it feels like a hopeless cycle, leaving people who are already hurting so much, feeling like the wheel's just never going to stop spinning and the pain will never end.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the truth is that stuckness often arises because while education really is important,
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[SPEAKER_02]: We've learned that we cannot simply think our way into safety.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Today I'm joined by Gemini Adams, a dear friend and a somatic practitioner who truly embodies the work that she teaches and whose work I trust implicitly.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You might remember Gemini, she has been on this podcast before, although it's been quite a few years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And today she's here to talk about why somatic self-care practices are life-saving for those recovering from betrayal and integrity of use.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She is also the facilitator of our upcoming program Trigger Together, which is launching in April.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you have felt like your body is an unsafe place to be, I invite you to take a deep breath right now and to settle in and listen.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Gemini, welcome.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for being with us today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm thrilled to be back and really looking forward to diving into some more of the details about how really gaining very specific, very effective somatic self care practices can be life changing in really being able to shift your state.
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[SPEAKER_01]: in a matter of minutes so that we don't keep being stuck in the states that are very uncomfortable to us often, but the dynamic that also creates inner interpersonal relationships.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so very important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that people can get their stock even after doing years of work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But again, if we don't incorporate this really important, somatic piece, I think, as you said, people get stock and confused.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why am I not moving forward?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that can create more depression, more angst despair.
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[SPEAKER_02]: more trauma, right, less hope, all of those things.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really excited because when you and I talk about this, you're always very clear about the fact that these skills can be learned.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They can actually be learned in practice and successful, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like really successful and effective.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what people want.
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[SPEAKER_02]: People that are in pain as you know want to get out of pain and they want to get out of pain yesterday, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Immediately, but we're not taught these skills, right?
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[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, I really want to have you share first of all, tell us a little bit about you and with regards to how you moved into this work, like a little bit if you're a history professionally.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to add in a little bit of personal too because I really begins there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up in a home that effectively resulted in me having CPDSD complex post-traumatic stress disorder.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the symptoms of that is a very dis-regulated nervous system.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did simply not learn from the people around me how to manage or meet my emotions and nor did I learn any somatic practice or even how to resource myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I was kind of bouncing around like many people are.
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[SPEAKER_01]: as if I were in a ping pong machine in an arcade or a casino, whereby without any will or with the will in the world, I had no control over this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I would be bouncing between fight-fly freeze-borne in response not only to what was happening in the environment and the different degrees of threat, but also what was going on inside of me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so as a team,
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[SPEAKER_01]: you know, I was streaming just regulated in school.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had a really hard time learning, second sequence.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I would shut down freeze form in many, many situations.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had what I would now looking back all chronic conflict avoidance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas now, I can hand on hearts.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have what I call conflict confidence.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I had zero and I mean zero access to my own fight response.
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[SPEAKER_01]: because there was quite a lot of verbal aggression in my home and so my internalization of that was fight is scary, fight is dangerous, fight is harmful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of us who grow up in an environment where we don't develop a healthy relationship to anger,
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[SPEAKER_01]: really don't want to go into fight, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: But it's key.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's our agency.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we get to a cert ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we get to communicate about boundaries.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We need fight to actually be able to establish our needs from self to other.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then in addition to that, I'm also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that shut down response to me and foreign response was
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[SPEAKER_01]: predominant as a maladaptive relating strategy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think one of the reasons for me why slowly finding my way into this work has been so beneficial is it's not been cognitive.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lifeline that I slowly found my way to as someone who was essentially imprisoned inside myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I could not relate in the way that other people could.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I did not have the capacity to speak up for my needs.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the sensations of my nervous system was so intense that I just would collapse and go into shockdown.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so this has been a giant puzzle that I've slowly put together over the 50-something years of my life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: for a combination of trainings, where I was training myself in to our therapy studies, but also the work that I did as a client of somatic therapy.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's a knowledge that I own at both cognitive levels.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I have the science and the practical elements and the data and the research.
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[SPEAKER_01]: but I know this in every cell of my being, how powerful and effective it can be and how transformative because if you had me on here as a sort of 13 year old who, quite honestly, was so conflict avoidant that I lied because that's what you do when you're conflict avoidant.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was so numb, I couldn't even actually access my sensations.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a very important
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[SPEAKER_01]: dissociation that comes from physical trauma, or what I generally call as body trauma, meaning something has been done to you, often leaves us completely numb.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And with an inability to have an awareness of what we collectively call introception, which is our ability to notice
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[SPEAKER_01]: sensation in the body to notice the cues that are telling us what our needs might be, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So many of us historically don't know what our needs are because we actually cannot feel sensation, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're putting your hand up so I'm going to let you speak.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is the perfect thing to share at this point because when my understanding of all of this shifted and it was like literally a light bulb moment for me in my own life, I didn't want to for a very long time look at the deeper parts of my pain, my trauma.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I spent so many years in therapy, totally dysregulated.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I just talked and talked and talked and talked.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I did.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And she is a somatic practitioner.
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[SPEAKER_02]: She's actually a sensory motor psychotherapist.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So she's all about sensations and, you know, the body.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I just wouldn't let her do any of that work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So one day, I was in such a state of dysregulation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, well, you just give me five minutes, just five.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I'm asking for.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can talk.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, okay, fine, and I was really, you know me, Jim, like I could be very, very stubborn and I was so resistant, but I said, okay, fine.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, okay, what do you want me to do, but she's like, all I want you to do is close your eyes, take a breath, and then just scan your body and just see what you notice.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And this is what I'll never forget.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In that 30 seconds after I closed my eyes and took a breath, I realized, number one, I hadn't eaten all day, and I was starved.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, I had to go to the bathroom, and number three, I had a horrible headache, which probably makes sense because I had neat and all the way, and I remember the shock that when I opened my eyes, I was like, I can't believe this, and I told her, and it was just the beginning of my understanding of how disconnected we can actually be from our body, from our sensations.
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[SPEAKER_02]: from the parts of us that actually really need us to be connected and aware.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is like the jumping off point where we're talking about right now, this disconnect that thinks a good place to go to why is it so important for us to begin to connect deeper, right, to be able to have that inner awareness and somatic integration and all of that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe you can share a little bit about for you, Jim.
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[SPEAKER_02]: how did your life change?
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think that when people hear things it's always like that's great that's great but tell me the bottom line like how's this going to help me right so you talked about being kid and being so conflict-devoid-in and you would lie and you couldn't have sustainable relationships how did that change?
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[SPEAKER_02]: What's your life like today because of all of the work that you did in this area?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to speak to that in one second, but I want to acknowledge something that builds on from what you just said that I think is very, very relevant to everyone that's probably listening, which is in the dynamic of betrayer and betrayed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The common response is that the betrayed is
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[SPEAKER_01]: and the betrayer is often numb and not feeling.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that is often a pattern that's been going on for a long time prior to disclosure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the numbness that exists often in the betrayer at root level is often a layer of dissociation, which, again, is always on a spectrum.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and the sheer frustration of if you are someone that has interception, if you have a felt sense to be in a dynamic with someone where you realize that they do not have felt sense.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And therefore there is no relation or capacity between these two bodies, these two beings.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's devastating for the betrayed partner because they need the person who caused
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, however, what is often underneath that, obviously there's on process trauma and it's important to acknowledge it is often also a protective mechanism.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I work with this a lot with my own clients and so you can't just kind of rip out a protective mechanism because it's doing a very important job in it may have got set up at a very very very very young age.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so perhaps one of the ways I work differently is that rather than, you know, we're just trying to push past that or we're trying to take that away.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're working quite differently, which is we're really going in and identifying those parts that are serving that role of protector, because if we actually felt we might feel pain, right, and that would be too much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're really kind of making their part an ally, we're recognizing that that served the role it was important.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so in a way, we're celebrating that part.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, wow, you did when you were three was incredible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Look, you managed to protect this person from feeling pain for all these decades.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's very effective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But now that we're actually an adult, that we're actually in a grown-up body.
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[SPEAKER_01]: we can learn a different way.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can learn how to feel again.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When we have been truly resource, when there's enough safety that has been brought into the field to enable that young part and the person's system to begin to notice sensation, begin to expand their interceptive capacity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because there is a danger actually when you're bringing someone out of that state
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll call it freeze.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There is only one way to come down, which is into fight and flight, which have a lot of sensation and a lot of emotion.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it can be too much, it can be too overwhelming, it can flood the system in ways, which can have potentially negative effects.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I totally empathize with all the frustration or the betrayed when the betrayer is numb.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not a quick fix.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It does take time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It has to be done in a way where in the smatic world we call it building the healing vortex and the titrating between those two, right, which is why the emphasis, particularly in this program, is we start by actually
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[SPEAKER_01]: not focusing on triggers but really building our resources first because it is in establishing relational safety in the field and resources we can begin to then open the system to something that it has been locked to historically.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So you just mentioned our program, and to that end, what I'd love to do now is share a little bit about this program, but I want to start with just the name.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We had a very clear idea of what we wanted to do, and then we were like, what should we call it?
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[SPEAKER_02]: And we came up with Trigger to Together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to talk about sort of the origin of that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: How did we get there?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Why did we arrive at that and say, yes, this is it, this is the program.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So relationships generally in all instances are triggering, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Irrespective of whether there has been betrayal, we are triggered on a daily basis and working to understand this human operating system that we're in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things is a fundamental is, doesn't matter what you're going to do in life, you're going to get triggered.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Most of us don't have the skillset.
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[SPEAKER_01]: to be able to respond well when we're triggered.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we lean into unhealthy mechanisms.
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[SPEAKER_01]: reactivity, so that's one which is screaming, shouting, ranting, going off the handle, or numbing out the intensity of being triggered, so whether it's chocolate biscuits, cake, candy, numbing out with social media, movies, cigarettes, vaping, marijuana, sex, you name it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and this is universal, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is really something that happens all around the planet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't matter what your DNA is, doesn't matter what your nationality is, doesn't matter what your gender is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We get triggered and as you already touched on, most of us did not get taught either by our parents or in school how to actually handle triggers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
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[SPEAKER_01]: so we know that this is a universal problem and it is accentuated in the dynamics where there has been a betrayal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that is because especially if you are still co-happeting with the person that has betrayed, the person that is meant to be your loving resource and your source of safety has become a threat which means that your nervous system is fundamentally triggered the entire time
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is very challenging to be able to cope with, to be able to stay regulated around that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I felt was that we identified that this is probably the biggest and potentially the most destructive problem for couples that are facing a situation where there's been a disclosure of a betrayal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and it also affects all couples.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But particularly this population and so really being able to come in and say you do not need to suffer in this way.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For sure it's going to be bumpy as one moves into the road of recovery.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But these are tried, tested, effective skills.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that really reinforced that, this is the skill set.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And once you learn it in a way where it is truly embodied and it becomes second nature to you, you can use this in any setting, not just in your personal relationship, but it changes your life, because you are able to
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[SPEAKER_01]: very quickly regulate yourself whether you've been in a car accident, whether you're overwhelmed by reading the news and some of the horrific stuff that often gets shared in our collective media these days, whether I have had currently or in crazy storms and due to climate change that
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[SPEAKER_01]: leak, I've got water running down the walls and my living room, you know, all of these things are triggers, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, losing money is a trigger, a massive change in your financial status, somebody breaking up, but he was a trigger.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so part of our conversation, as I remember, it was also like this really actually needs to be taught to us in school.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is fundamental,
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[SPEAKER_01]: it is kind of beyond me as I look back that really why are we not being taught this in school and you know maybe that's the future but we're starting here by teaching this it has to be the future that's just that's I declare it yeah and the terminology that I use for this approach is that we're developing relational emotional well being you mentioned the nervous system early the beginning and what I think a lot of people fail to recognize and it's something that is a big bug bear for me nervous system has become the kind of like
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[SPEAKER_01]: and everyone's talking about, you know, or regulating your nervous system with breath work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There is so much more to it than that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the nervous system is a relational system.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They are not separate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They are one and the same thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, if we are in fight, okay, where our entire system is oriented towards taking action and as a consequence,
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[SPEAKER_01]: our orienting responses our eyes and our ears have like come into single focus.
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[SPEAKER_01]: A heart rate has accelerated and is pumping adrenaline through the body and focusing all the energy for us to literally move to attack.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We are not listening.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We cannot take an information.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We cannot retain that information.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We have limited relational capacity when we have moved into fight.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When we're in
20:51.464 --> 20:53.527
[SPEAKER_01]: zero relational ability.
20:53.968 --> 20:57.033
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when we're in flight, you know, all of these are on a spectrum.
20:57.454 --> 20:59.638
[SPEAKER_01]: When we're in flight, we're easily distracted.
20:59.678 --> 21:02.823
[SPEAKER_01]: There is anxiety flooding the system.
21:03.524 --> 21:07.110
[SPEAKER_01]: We're already primed away from connection.
21:07.090 --> 21:19.916
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it is so important to understand that if you don't know how to work with your own nervous system, you cannot move yourself into what is technically called social engagement.
21:20.357 --> 21:23.243
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I like to call is the friendly and free zone.
21:23.223 --> 21:35.370
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is where we naturally have capacity, where we have the ability to have compassion, where we can authentically connect with others, where we can converse.
21:35.912 --> 21:40.101
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the minute we are out of that, relational capacity is lost.
21:40.874 --> 21:46.639
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to sit with that for a moment, because just that term relational capacity is lost.
21:47.200 --> 21:53.826
[SPEAKER_02]: I think likely every person listening to this podcast can relate to that in a very profound way.
21:54.806 --> 21:57.068
[SPEAKER_02]: And so many of our listeners, not all.
21:57.509 --> 22:07.418
[SPEAKER_02]: There are people that are recovering from betrayal and are not in their relationship any longer, or maybe the are, but they are thinking that that is not the trajectory for them, right?
22:07.898 --> 22:08.839
[SPEAKER_02]: But many,
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[SPEAKER_02]: want to heal together.
22:11.984 --> 22:16.210
[SPEAKER_02]: And the problem is when there's no relational capacity that takes away all hope.
22:16.671 --> 22:17.672
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get close.
22:17.712 --> 22:18.774
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get connected.
22:19.154 --> 22:25.904
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't be seen when somebody's shut down or fighting you or sort of on their way out the door.
22:26.726 --> 22:30.491
[SPEAKER_02]: And so these skills are crucial.
22:30.691 --> 22:31.473
[SPEAKER_02]: They're necessary.
22:31.873 --> 22:33.856
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to say the separate from betrayal.
22:34.257 --> 22:35.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Every human being.
22:35.819 --> 22:37.482
[SPEAKER_02]: should have them, should learn them.
22:37.563 --> 22:38.905
[SPEAKER_02]: We are at such a deficit.
22:39.226 --> 22:48.204
[SPEAKER_02]: I won't let myself go too far down this rabbit hole, but we are at a deficit as human beings in that we are not prepared to deal with life, right?
22:48.364 --> 22:50.208
[SPEAKER_02]: Conflict is a part of life.
22:50.709 --> 22:53.254
[SPEAKER_02]: Relationships is what life's all about.
22:53.234 --> 23:01.351
[SPEAKER_02]: We are actually in my opinion, socialized a way from learning the tools and having the capacity to have healthy relationships.
23:01.531 --> 23:11.833
[SPEAKER_02]: And so let's come back together for a second and just talk to people who are thinking, well, this sounds like exactly what I need or this sounds like this is what we need as a couple.
23:11.982 --> 23:20.194
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the things that I think is very vital to recognise is that our whole structure has changed in the last hundred years.
23:20.774 --> 23:21.596
[SPEAKER_01]: We are tribal.
23:21.776 --> 23:31.770
[SPEAKER_01]: We historically lived in small village-type settings off the land where actually nature was doing a lot of this work for us, regulating our nervous system.
23:32.131 --> 23:39.441
[SPEAKER_01]: All this studies show, you know, if you go and do forest bathing, spend time in nature, it co-regulates us, okay?
23:39.691 --> 23:51.627
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, albeit that it wasn't necessarily easy, we were self-sustaining, we had animals, dairy products, some vegetables, fruits around us, and if not, we shared.
23:51.647 --> 23:57.054
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there was several factors leading into this one as the economic system that we're in.
23:57.495 --> 24:01.260
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is very important, particularly at current moment, whereby
24:01.240 --> 24:04.125
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got hyperinflation, we've got devaluation of currency.
24:04.605 --> 24:13.099
[SPEAKER_01]: The economic system pushes us into survival mode, especially when the economy is so challenging.
24:13.199 --> 24:14.861
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so expensive for people.
24:15.322 --> 24:19.789
[SPEAKER_01]: So that has us in fight flight pretty much all the time, anyway.
24:19.769 --> 24:30.083
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the, I'm going to use the worst degradation of the traditional family unit, meaning that you often lived close by to immediate family members and everyone spread out.
24:30.764 --> 24:37.212
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we're all doing, doing, we're just doing, and we're doing so much more than we have used to.
24:37.252 --> 24:38.554
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
24:38.534 --> 24:45.384
[SPEAKER_01]: all of these factors feed into this collective nervous system, hyper arousal, okay?
24:45.784 --> 24:47.527
[SPEAKER_01]: But we haven't learned what you just said.
24:47.547 --> 24:53.756
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't really educated ourselves in all, you know, I'm delirious with the state I'm in, but I don't know what to do.
24:54.537 --> 25:01.707
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is where the education I see really comes in and we're kind of catching up with ourselves as we often do as humans.
25:01.687 --> 25:06.696
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also to just acknowledge, this is still relatively new neurophysiological science.
25:06.716 --> 25:08.820
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only really been around for 20, 30 years.
25:08.900 --> 25:18.717
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't understand this about our system, you know, through the great legends of Stephen Podiers and co who really helped bring this forward as a science.
25:18.697 --> 25:25.589
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I think we can perhaps, you know, let ourselves a little off the hook there, is what I wanted to say.
25:25.709 --> 25:27.392
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
25:27.432 --> 25:28.313
[SPEAKER_02]: So now let's come back.
25:28.794 --> 25:33.643
[SPEAKER_02]: How have these life-saving tools personally helped you in your life?
25:33.963 --> 25:35.245
[SPEAKER_02]: How is your life different today?
25:35.305 --> 25:43.219
[SPEAKER_02]: Then the time before you sort of did this deep dive into the world of somatic therapy and somatic life skills.
25:43.688 --> 26:04.228
[SPEAKER_01]: If I go back to my 20s, I mean, my early 50s, a lot of times I would be in situations where I would be dysregulating, meaning there would be words that I would want to share, whether it's coming from my soul or ego, I don't know, but there would be things that I would be wanting to speak up on, but I could not.
26:04.748 --> 26:18.989
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, you know, tight throat overwhelm sensation, fight flight driven by fear of if I say this, I may be going to either get rejected or the other person that's going to get angry.
26:19.850 --> 26:25.558
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was living in silence quite a lot and I know some people are on the other end of the spectrum.
26:25.538 --> 26:30.007
[SPEAKER_01]: where they are shouting and running and spewing everything all over everybody.
26:30.127 --> 26:31.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's this sort of two degrees here.
26:32.131 --> 26:42.872
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me personally, first of all, I was fully bought out of freeze, which was incredible to experience fight in my system for the first time.
26:43.325 --> 26:55.295
[SPEAKER_01]: and then you know with development that led to this ability to begin to speak up for myself to stop being conflict avoidin to assert my needs.
26:55.596 --> 27:00.520
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just about courage, you know, this is hard for people to understand, well, why wouldn't you speak up your needs?
27:00.580 --> 27:01.561
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, ways you're courage.
27:02.241 --> 27:12.370
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when you'll nervous system is in terror from other traumas, you just can't.
27:12.350 --> 27:13.893
[SPEAKER_01]: learn how.
27:13.913 --> 27:30.848
[SPEAKER_01]: And the how is actually being able to manage the overwhelming sensation of what's happening in your nervous system, worrying in resource work with the somatic practice that contains you and regulates you enough that you can remain in your adult self and communicate.
27:30.828 --> 27:34.874
[SPEAKER_01]: knowing to that you're not enmeshed with your emotional response of the other person.
27:35.655 --> 27:41.944
[SPEAKER_01]: And that if needs be, and this is the option for flight, you can walk away, and you can put yourself back into a place of safety.
27:42.966 --> 27:51.118
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there is a lot to it, but really for me, I think that deep down I've probably always been a little bit of an activist, an advocate, but that was not happening.
27:51.158 --> 27:53.001
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I have that capacity.
27:53.221 --> 27:56.666
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, oh my god, Gemini is such an activist.
27:57.347 --> 27:59.350
[SPEAKER_02]: You would definitely have
27:59.465 --> 28:18.352
[SPEAKER_01]: I have different relationships because that conflict avoidant part of me would like this people pleasing, I was forening, I was putting up with a lot which is really destructive to our own health in the long run but particularly I'd say in romantic dynamics but also in work dynamics.
28:18.993 --> 28:25.422
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, exploitation is only possible really when the recipient
28:25.402 --> 28:36.533
[SPEAKER_01]: is complicated one is not prepared to stand up for their rights and their needs to articulate no boundaries come out of our nervous system capacity to speak up for ourselves.
28:37.475 --> 28:40.744
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think the greatest thing for me is that
28:40.724 --> 28:42.669
[SPEAKER_01]: It really doesn't matter what setting I'm in.
28:43.111 --> 28:55.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the biggest shift that happens through this work is expanding your own capacity to be able to detect and really were playing detectives as we're learning this work.
28:55.726 --> 29:04.904
[SPEAKER_01]: Recognizing from a place of self observation, the behaviours which you're beginning to engage in as well as the sensations which kind of give you like verification.
29:05.024 --> 29:07.088
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I'm moving into flight right now.
29:07.249 --> 29:10.615
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I'm witnessing my behavior and my sensations.
29:10.756 --> 29:12.239
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going into fight right now.
29:12.479 --> 29:14.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not to say that either of those things are bad.
29:14.423 --> 29:17.970
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not they're part of our survival mechanism.
29:17.950 --> 29:22.414
[SPEAKER_01]: But especially in the context of interpersonal dynamics, right?
29:23.155 --> 29:30.401
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my current situation, flooding, you know, I don't want to write a shouting, Randy emailed my landlord.
29:30.641 --> 29:32.063
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to regulate myself.
29:32.603 --> 29:34.084
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to resource myself.
29:34.304 --> 29:39.569
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be able to write something that has clear requests in it, my needs, right?
29:40.050 --> 29:47.316
[SPEAKER_01]: References the law is calm and considerate and also speaks to the humanity in the situation.
29:47.296 --> 29:49.920
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have that capacity.
29:50.060 --> 29:57.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that my ability to live in what I refer to as adult self is where I spend 90% of my time.
29:57.953 --> 30:07.649
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas historically, in contrast, I was flooded by inner child parts that were as I described before ping-ponging me.
30:08.350 --> 30:10.333
[SPEAKER_01]: But doing these states,
30:10.313 --> 30:13.278
[SPEAKER_01]: equally the opposite end of the spectrum 90% of the time.
30:14.119 --> 30:24.135
[SPEAKER_01]: And so really if you grow up with trauma in your childhood, this work is actually about growing ourselves up so that we can actually act like adults in situations.
30:24.736 --> 30:37.637
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we have the skills, the tools, the capacity to recognize and observe ourselves okay, nope, I need to you know rain it in, I need to regulate
30:37.617 --> 30:42.424
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm seeing myself now calm down into the green zone where I'm in front of Liam Free.
30:42.944 --> 30:44.366
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go and communicate.
30:44.887 --> 30:47.250
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go in and ask for my need to be met.
30:47.911 --> 30:51.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go in the assert the boundary that needs to be asserted.
30:51.456 --> 31:02.832
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the beauty of this actually when multiple people learn this in a setting, whether it's two people as a couple, or an entire family, kids included.
31:02.812 --> 31:18.373
[SPEAKER_01]: is that everyone can actually support each other too because what you're learning is the capacity for self-regulation and we cannot correctulate someone else unless we are in friendly and free unless we're in social engagement, unless we're in the green zone.
31:18.353 --> 31:27.299
[SPEAKER_01]: And so by gaining that skill set as parents, as a couple, you can also pass that down to your kids but then you can all help each other.
31:27.379 --> 31:32.574
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, I was running during COVID training programs in Thailand.
31:32.654 --> 31:33.797
[SPEAKER_01]: It was called.
31:33.777 --> 31:50.925
[SPEAKER_01]: trauma awareness becoming a safer spaceholder, and I was teaching this work to facilitators to retreat leaders, to others, psychologists, psychotherapists, swimming teachers, priests, and we had people from all sorts of life coming into these programs.
31:50.905 --> 32:01.946
[SPEAKER_01]: in order to be able to develop the capacity in themselves to make themselves safer spaceholders because it's your nervous system that leads the room.
32:02.648 --> 32:12.306
[SPEAKER_01]: But equally, you need skills to be able to go in there and respond when someone else in your space completely dysregulates and goes into shut down a breeze.
32:12.286 --> 32:21.764
[SPEAKER_01]: or is in a fight response, you know, who works in a profession where people, you know, they're upset and they're complaining and they're throwing them toys out the prime, how do you respond to that?
32:22.586 --> 32:25.691
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, the same way that you respond to your partner, right?
32:26.713 --> 32:34.969
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've done a lot of trainings, a lot of studies, I've traveled the world, I've been to 57 countries, I have gained so much life experience.
32:34.949 --> 32:58.763
[SPEAKER_01]: And this honestly has been the single most valuable skills that I have ever learned because it comes into every single interaction, every single day of my life because our nervous systems are in a permanent dynamic, state change with what's happening inside of us and what is happening outside of us and the people that we're relating to.
32:58.743 --> 33:00.686
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, thank you for sharing all of that.
33:00.867 --> 33:02.790
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of personal information.
33:02.810 --> 33:08.120
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's the best way for other people to sort of conceptualize what their life can look like.
33:08.440 --> 33:17.055
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I really think that's a good place to leave this because if anybody's listening or has listened to that description that you just gave and they're like, oh my god, that's what I want.
33:17.116 --> 33:23.046
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please, I'll take that then explore the program, just go to the website
33:23.026 --> 33:25.009
[SPEAKER_02]: We have two programs starting in April.
33:25.250 --> 33:26.833
[SPEAKER_02]: They're both called triggered to together.
33:26.893 --> 33:31.421
[SPEAKER_02]: One program is specifically for couples, so you can actually do this work as a couple.
33:31.881 --> 33:33.304
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other is for individuals.
33:33.464 --> 33:35.728
[SPEAKER_02]: And that can be individuals who are no longer in the relationship.
33:35.768 --> 33:39.735
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be for individuals that are in a relationship, but are choosing to do the work by themselves.
33:39.715 --> 33:44.306
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not in a group setting where there's going to be other couples.
33:44.506 --> 33:48.777
[SPEAKER_02]: So if any of this sounds interesting, please do learn more.
33:48.797 --> 33:54.771
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also schedule a free call with one of our intake coordinators who can tell you more.
33:54.751 --> 34:04.144
[SPEAKER_02]: The best news about these programs is not just that you're going to be getting all of this incredible content and the skills the Gemini's been talking about, but she is personally leading this program.
34:04.604 --> 34:13.857
[SPEAKER_02]: So she will be showing up every week for 90 minute sessions to actually guide you through the education and also the integration.
34:13.837 --> 34:15.679
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope you'll check it out.
34:15.759 --> 34:19.443
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really, really honored to be offering these new programs.
34:19.463 --> 34:25.569
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Gemini, thank you very, very grateful, very excited, and to all our listeners, as always, keep having hope.
34:25.809 --> 34:36.640
[SPEAKER_02]: Hope is there, and our goal at helping couples heal is to continue to bring you experts, programs, services that will continue to support you in healing.
34:36.740 --> 34:41.064
[SPEAKER_02]: Your hearts, your systems, your relationships, yourself.
34:41.565 --> 34:42.966
[SPEAKER_02]: Take a care, let's see you again soon.
34:48.397 --> 34:53.586
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, where you're healing is our number one priority.
34:54.167 --> 35:06.507
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like additional resources about the trail trauma, which will learn more about our coaching services, please visit HelpingCouplesheal.com or call 562-379-4325.
35:06.487 --> 35:08.409
[SPEAKER_00]: our help is available worldwide.
35:08.970 --> 35:18.582
[SPEAKER_00]: Please support helping couples heal and continuing to reach others impacted by betrayal trauma by leaving a review on iTunes and sharing this podcast with someone you care about.
35:19.042 --> 35:25.390
[SPEAKER_00]: For additional support, follow us on Instagram and consider joining our helping couples heal private Facebook community.
35:25.871 --> 35:28.574
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't an easy journey, but you don't have to do it alone.
35:29.135 --> 35:30.857
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, thank you for listening.
00:07.321 --> 00:16.780
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, a place for healing and hope for couples impacted by betrayal, resulting from infidelity and or sex addiction.
00:17.181 --> 00:29.025
[SPEAKER_00]: Your host is Marnie Breaker, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified sex addiction therapist, and founder of the Center for Relational Healing in Los Angeles and San Diego, California.
00:29.005 --> 00:40.667
[SPEAKER_00]: The helping couples heel podcasts was launched in 2021, with the intention of bringing hope to couples all over the world, who are desperately trying to recover from the devastating impact of betrayal.
00:41.329 --> 00:47.841
[SPEAKER_00]: Realizing how many people the podcast was reaching, and that we could offer even more support to our listeners.
00:47.821 --> 00:54.332
[SPEAKER_00]: Marni Co-founded Helping Couples Huel, which has since grown into a global online coaching organization.
00:54.732 --> 00:59.320
[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is a foundation of all the work that we do at Helping Couples Huel.
00:59.340 --> 01:00.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening.
01:00.982 --> 01:09.897
[SPEAKER_00]: Marni brings over a decade of experience and expertise in the field of betrayal trauma and is honored to support you wherever you may be in your healing.
01:09.877 --> 01:12.490
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've lost hope, you've come to the right place.
01:13.234 --> 01:18.199
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, they can slow deep breath and let's begin with the helping couples here podcast.
01:23.579 --> 01:25.101
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, everyone.
01:25.162 --> 01:27.666
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Helping Couples Hill Podcast.
01:27.806 --> 01:32.774
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Marny, and today we are talking about coming home to your own body.
01:33.515 --> 01:35.859
[SPEAKER_02]: Something that I believe is essential for true healing.
01:36.219 --> 01:42.229
[SPEAKER_02]: Healing both as an individual, as well as healing a relationship that has been traumatized by betrayal.
01:43.010 --> 01:45.694
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear so often from couples who feel stuck.
01:45.995 --> 01:46.796
[SPEAKER_02]: They're doing the work.
01:46.816 --> 01:47.597
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the groups.
01:47.657 --> 01:48.539
[SPEAKER_02]: They're reading the books.
01:48.619 --> 01:51.223
[SPEAKER_02]: Listening to the podcast, all the things.
01:51.203 --> 01:57.691
[SPEAKER_02]: But their nervous systems are still stuck in what I call the free fall of triggers and defensiveness and chaos.
01:58.532 --> 02:03.839
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear so often that they feel like they're on this hamster wheel just going around and around and around.
02:03.899 --> 02:14.173
[SPEAKER_02]: It's exhausting and it feels like a hopeless cycle, leaving people who are already hurting so much, feeling like the wheel's just never going to stop spinning and the pain will never end.
02:14.213 --> 02:20.721
[SPEAKER_02]: And the truth is that stuckness often arises because while education really is important,
02:21.038 --> 02:25.043
[SPEAKER_02]: We've learned that we cannot simply think our way into safety.
02:25.824 --> 02:34.114
[SPEAKER_02]: Today I'm joined by Gemini Adams, a dear friend and a somatic practitioner who truly embodies the work that she teaches and whose work I trust implicitly.
02:34.575 --> 02:38.920
[SPEAKER_02]: You might remember Gemini, she has been on this podcast before, although it's been quite a few years.
02:39.661 --> 02:47.991
[SPEAKER_02]: And today she's here to talk about why somatic self-care practices are life-saving for those recovering from betrayal and integrity of use.
02:48.275 --> 02:54.209
[SPEAKER_02]: She is also the facilitator of our upcoming program Trigger Together, which is launching in April.
02:54.910 --> 03:02.709
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have felt like your body is an unsafe place to be, I invite you to take a deep breath right now and to settle in and listen.
03:03.631 --> 03:04.413
[SPEAKER_02]: Gemini, welcome.
03:04.453 --> 03:06.317
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for being with us today.
03:07.141 --> 03:29.487
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm thrilled to be back and really looking forward to diving into some more of the details about how really gaining very specific, very effective somatic self care practices can be life changing in really being able to shift your state.
03:29.467 --> 03:42.092
[SPEAKER_01]: in a matter of minutes so that we don't keep being stuck in the states that are very uncomfortable to us often, but the dynamic that also creates inner interpersonal relationships.
03:42.629 --> 03:43.992
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so very important.
03:44.494 --> 03:49.065
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that people can get their stock even after doing years of work.
03:49.085 --> 03:56.222
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, if we don't incorporate this really important, somatic piece, I think, as you said, people get stock and confused.
03:56.242 --> 03:57.586
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why am I not moving forward?
03:57.606 --> 04:00.553
[SPEAKER_02]: And that can create more depression, more angst despair.
04:00.533 --> 04:03.558
[SPEAKER_02]: more trauma, right, less hope, all of those things.
04:03.638 --> 04:10.628
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really excited because when you and I talk about this, you're always very clear about the fact that these skills can be learned.
04:10.929 --> 04:14.995
[SPEAKER_02]: They can actually be learned in practice and successful, right?
04:15.035 --> 04:16.657
[SPEAKER_02]: Like really successful and effective.
04:17.218 --> 04:18.180
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what people want.
04:18.440 --> 04:25.731
[SPEAKER_02]: People that are in pain as you know want to get out of pain and they want to get out of pain yesterday, right?
04:25.711 --> 04:28.858
[SPEAKER_02]: Immediately, but we're not taught these skills, right?
04:28.958 --> 04:41.003
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, I really want to have you share first of all, tell us a little bit about you and with regards to how you moved into this work, like a little bit if you're a history professionally.
04:42.130 --> 04:45.915
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to add in a little bit of personal too because I really begins there.
04:46.015 --> 04:54.708
[SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up in a home that effectively resulted in me having CPDSD complex post-traumatic stress disorder.
04:55.729 --> 05:01.337
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the symptoms of that is a very dis-regulated nervous system.
05:01.317 --> 05:13.687
[SPEAKER_01]: I did simply not learn from the people around me how to manage or meet my emotions and nor did I learn any somatic practice or even how to resource myself.
05:14.590 --> 05:18.820
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I was kind of bouncing around like many people are.
05:18.800 --> 05:30.611
[SPEAKER_01]: as if I were in a ping pong machine in an arcade or a casino, whereby without any will or with the will in the world, I had no control over this.
05:30.731 --> 05:43.884
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would be bouncing between fight-fly freeze-borne in response not only to what was happening in the environment and the different degrees of threat, but also what was going on inside of me.
05:44.825 --> 05:46.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as a team,
05:46.947 --> 05:49.830
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, I was streaming just regulated in school.
05:49.910 --> 05:52.192
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a really hard time learning, second sequence.
05:52.853 --> 05:58.378
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would shut down freeze form in many, many situations.
05:58.478 --> 06:02.482
[SPEAKER_01]: I had what I would now looking back all chronic conflict avoidance.
06:02.642 --> 06:04.384
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas now, I can hand on hearts.
06:04.444 --> 06:06.466
[SPEAKER_01]: I have what I call conflict confidence.
06:07.406 --> 06:13.292
[SPEAKER_01]: I had zero and I mean zero access to my own fight response.
06:13.272 --> 06:27.450
[SPEAKER_01]: because there was quite a lot of verbal aggression in my home and so my internalization of that was fight is scary, fight is dangerous, fight is harmful.
06:28.091 --> 06:33.238
[SPEAKER_01]: And so many of us who grow up in an environment where we don't develop a healthy relationship to anger,
06:33.218 --> 06:35.802
[SPEAKER_01]: really don't want to go into fight, right?
06:35.842 --> 06:36.583
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's key.
06:36.623 --> 06:37.745
[SPEAKER_01]: It's our agency.
06:37.965 --> 06:40.068
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we get to a cert ourselves.
06:40.108 --> 06:42.932
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we get to communicate about boundaries.
06:43.753 --> 06:49.962
[SPEAKER_01]: We need fight to actually be able to establish our needs from self to other.
06:50.884 --> 06:54.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in addition to that, I'm also a survivor of childhood sexual abuse.
06:55.831 --> 07:00.778
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, that shut down response to me and foreign response was
07:00.758 --> 07:04.185
[SPEAKER_01]: predominant as a maladaptive relating strategy.
07:04.986 --> 07:13.944
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think one of the reasons for me why slowly finding my way into this work has been so beneficial is it's not been cognitive.
07:14.845 --> 07:22.480
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a lifeline that I slowly found my way to as someone who was essentially imprisoned inside myself.
07:22.460 --> 07:25.063
[SPEAKER_01]: I could not relate in the way that other people could.
07:25.664 --> 07:28.668
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not have the capacity to speak up for my needs.
07:28.948 --> 07:35.917
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the sensations of my nervous system was so intense that I just would collapse and go into shockdown.
07:37.018 --> 07:44.367
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this has been a giant puzzle that I've slowly put together over the 50-something years of my life.
07:44.347 --> 07:56.023
[SPEAKER_01]: for a combination of trainings, where I was training myself in to our therapy studies, but also the work that I did as a client of somatic therapy.
07:56.604 --> 08:01.511
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me, it's a knowledge that I own at both cognitive levels.
08:01.611 --> 08:06.338
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I have the science and the practical elements and the data and the research.
08:06.318 --> 08:24.320
[SPEAKER_01]: but I know this in every cell of my being, how powerful and effective it can be and how transformative because if you had me on here as a sort of 13 year old who, quite honestly, was so conflict avoidant that I lied because that's what you do when you're conflict avoidant.
08:25.021 --> 08:29.867
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so numb, I couldn't even actually access my sensations.
08:30.507 --> 08:35.093
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a very important
08:35.073 --> 08:47.689
[SPEAKER_01]: dissociation that comes from physical trauma, or what I generally call as body trauma, meaning something has been done to you, often leaves us completely numb.
08:47.709 --> 08:57.621
[SPEAKER_01]: And with an inability to have an awareness of what we collectively call introception, which is our ability to notice
08:57.601 --> 09:03.995
[SPEAKER_01]: sensation in the body to notice the cues that are telling us what our needs might be, right?
09:04.116 --> 09:10.550
[SPEAKER_01]: So many of us historically don't know what our needs are because we actually cannot feel sensation, right?
09:11.072 --> 09:13.517
[SPEAKER_01]: You're putting your hand up so I'm going to let you speak.
09:13.497 --> 09:30.561
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is the perfect thing to share at this point because when my understanding of all of this shifted and it was like literally a light bulb moment for me in my own life, I didn't want to for a very long time look at the deeper parts of my pain, my trauma.
09:30.541 --> 09:33.964
[SPEAKER_02]: I spent so many years in therapy, totally dysregulated.
09:34.585 --> 09:37.628
[SPEAKER_02]: I just talked and talked and talked and talked.
09:38.008 --> 09:38.609
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I did.
09:39.289 --> 09:41.151
[SPEAKER_02]: And she is a somatic practitioner.
09:41.171 --> 09:43.273
[SPEAKER_02]: She's actually a sensory motor psychotherapist.
09:43.593 --> 09:46.576
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's all about sensations and, you know, the body.
09:46.876 --> 09:49.139
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just wouldn't let her do any of that work.
09:49.219 --> 09:53.002
[SPEAKER_02]: So one day, I was in such a state of dysregulation.
09:53.042 --> 09:55.985
[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, well, you just give me five minutes, just five.
09:56.025 --> 09:56.906
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I'm asking for.
09:56.926 --> 09:58.067
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can talk.
09:58.047 --> 10:05.538
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, okay, fine, and I was really, you know me, Jim, like I could be very, very stubborn and I was so resistant, but I said, okay, fine.
10:06.119 --> 10:14.672
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, okay, what do you want me to do, but she's like, all I want you to do is close your eyes, take a breath, and then just scan your body and just see what you notice.
10:15.454 --> 10:16.575
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is what I'll never forget.
10:16.595 --> 10:24.207
[SPEAKER_02]: In that 30 seconds after I closed my eyes and took a breath, I realized, number one, I hadn't eaten all day, and I was starved.
10:24.187 --> 10:46.735
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, I had to go to the bathroom, and number three, I had a horrible headache, which probably makes sense because I had neat and all the way, and I remember the shock that when I opened my eyes, I was like, I can't believe this, and I told her, and it was just the beginning of my understanding of how disconnected we can actually be from our body, from our sensations.
10:46.715 --> 10:50.819
[SPEAKER_02]: from the parts of us that actually really need us to be connected and aware.
10:51.360 --> 11:09.699
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is like the jumping off point where we're talking about right now, this disconnect that thinks a good place to go to why is it so important for us to begin to connect deeper, right, to be able to have that inner awareness and somatic integration and all of that.
11:09.739 --> 11:13.583
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe you can share a little bit about for you, Jim.
11:13.563 --> 11:15.406
[SPEAKER_02]: how did your life change?
11:15.727 --> 11:29.671
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that when people hear things it's always like that's great that's great but tell me the bottom line like how's this going to help me right so you talked about being kid and being so conflict-devoid-in and you would lie and you couldn't have sustainable relationships how did that change?
11:30.011 --> 11:34.980
[SPEAKER_02]: What's your life like today because of all of the work that you did in this area?
11:34.960 --> 11:50.320
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to speak to that in one second, but I want to acknowledge something that builds on from what you just said that I think is very, very relevant to everyone that's probably listening, which is in the dynamic of betrayer and betrayed.
11:50.380 --> 12:00.293
[SPEAKER_01]: The common response is that the betrayed is
12:00.273 --> 12:04.061
[SPEAKER_01]: and the betrayer is often numb and not feeling.
12:04.602 --> 12:09.773
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is often a pattern that's been going on for a long time prior to disclosure.
12:09.793 --> 12:20.897
[SPEAKER_01]: And the numbness that exists often in the betrayer at root level is often a layer of dissociation, which, again, is always on a spectrum.
12:20.877 --> 12:34.190
[SPEAKER_01]: and the sheer frustration of if you are someone that has interception, if you have a felt sense to be in a dynamic with someone where you realize that they do not have felt sense.
12:34.891 --> 12:40.616
[SPEAKER_01]: And therefore there is no relation or capacity between these two bodies, these two beings.
12:41.417 --> 12:49.365
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's devastating for the betrayed partner because they need the person who caused
12:49.666 --> 12:58.682
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, however, what is often underneath that, obviously there's on process trauma and it's important to acknowledge it is often also a protective mechanism.
12:59.223 --> 13:12.366
[SPEAKER_01]: I work with this a lot with my own clients and so you can't just kind of rip out a protective mechanism because it's doing a very important job in it may have got set up at a very very very very young age.
13:12.346 --> 13:20.957
[SPEAKER_01]: And so perhaps one of the ways I work differently is that rather than, you know, we're just trying to push past that or we're trying to take that away.
13:20.997 --> 13:34.894
[SPEAKER_01]: We're working quite differently, which is we're really going in and identifying those parts that are serving that role of protector, because if we actually felt we might feel pain, right, and that would be too much.
13:34.874 --> 13:41.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're really kind of making their part an ally, we're recognizing that that served the role it was important.
13:41.145 --> 13:43.389
[SPEAKER_01]: And so in a way, we're celebrating that part.
13:43.569 --> 13:45.833
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, wow, you did when you were three was incredible.
13:46.133 --> 13:50.481
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, you managed to protect this person from feeling pain for all these decades.
13:50.962 --> 13:52.024
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very effective.
13:52.645 --> 13:57.473
[SPEAKER_01]: But now that we're actually an adult, that we're actually in a grown-up body.
13:57.453 --> 13:58.875
[SPEAKER_01]: we can learn a different way.
13:59.235 --> 14:00.757
[SPEAKER_01]: We can learn how to feel again.
14:01.298 --> 14:18.239
[SPEAKER_01]: When we have been truly resource, when there's enough safety that has been brought into the field to enable that young part and the person's system to begin to notice sensation, begin to expand their interceptive capacity.
14:18.700 --> 14:26.650
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there is a danger actually when you're bringing someone out of that state
14:26.630 --> 14:28.253
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll call it freeze.
14:29.394 --> 14:38.349
[SPEAKER_01]: There is only one way to come down, which is into fight and flight, which have a lot of sensation and a lot of emotion.
14:38.549 --> 14:45.360
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, it can be too much, it can be too overwhelming, it can flood the system in ways, which can have potentially negative effects.
14:45.460 --> 14:51.810
[SPEAKER_01]: So I totally empathize with all the frustration or the betrayed when the betrayer is numb.
14:51.790 --> 14:54.175
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not a quick fix.
14:54.195 --> 14:55.238
[SPEAKER_01]: It does take time.
14:55.278 --> 15:09.310
[SPEAKER_01]: It has to be done in a way where in the smatic world we call it building the healing vortex and the titrating between those two, right, which is why the emphasis, particularly in this program, is we start by actually
15:09.290 --> 15:24.514
[SPEAKER_01]: not focusing on triggers but really building our resources first because it is in establishing relational safety in the field and resources we can begin to then open the system to something that it has been locked to historically.
15:24.494 --> 15:35.049
[SPEAKER_02]: So you just mentioned our program, and to that end, what I'd love to do now is share a little bit about this program, but I want to start with just the name.
15:35.469 --> 15:40.236
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a very clear idea of what we wanted to do, and then we were like, what should we call it?
15:41.117 --> 15:43.420
[SPEAKER_02]: And we came up with Trigger to Together.
15:43.440 --> 15:46.144
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to talk about sort of the origin of that.
15:46.224 --> 15:47.185
[SPEAKER_02]: How did we get there?
15:47.325 --> 15:50.670
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did we arrive at that and say, yes, this is it, this is the program.
15:51.258 --> 15:56.846
[SPEAKER_01]: So relationships generally in all instances are triggering, right?
15:57.186 --> 16:06.479
[SPEAKER_01]: Irrespective of whether there has been betrayal, we are triggered on a daily basis and working to understand this human operating system that we're in.
16:06.980 --> 16:12.167
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things is a fundamental is, doesn't matter what you're going to do in life, you're going to get triggered.
16:12.848 --> 16:16.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of us don't have the skillset.
16:16.773 --> 16:20.427
[SPEAKER_01]: to be able to respond well when we're triggered.
16:21.130 --> 16:24.724
[SPEAKER_01]: So we lean into unhealthy mechanisms.
16:25.126 --> 16:50.813
[SPEAKER_01]: reactivity, so that's one which is screaming, shouting, ranting, going off the handle, or numbing out the intensity of being triggered, so whether it's chocolate biscuits, cake, candy, numbing out with social media, movies, cigarettes, vaping, marijuana, sex, you name it.
16:50.793 --> 16:53.599
[SPEAKER_01]: and this is universal, right?
16:53.739 --> 16:56.966
[SPEAKER_01]: This is really something that happens all around the planet.
16:57.006 --> 17:01.416
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't matter what your DNA is, doesn't matter what your nationality is, doesn't matter what your gender is.
17:01.696 --> 17:10.776
[SPEAKER_01]: We get triggered and as you already touched on, most of us did not get taught either by our parents or in school how to actually handle triggers.
17:11.116 --> 17:11.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Well,
17:12.899 --> 17:19.648
[SPEAKER_01]: so we know that this is a universal problem and it is accentuated in the dynamics where there has been a betrayal.
17:19.928 --> 17:41.657
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason for that is because especially if you are still co-happeting with the person that has betrayed, the person that is meant to be your loving resource and your source of safety has become a threat which means that your nervous system is fundamentally triggered the entire time
17:41.637 --> 17:48.287
[SPEAKER_01]: This is very challenging to be able to cope with, to be able to stay regulated around that.
17:48.648 --> 18:03.510
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I felt was that we identified that this is probably the biggest and potentially the most destructive problem for couples that are facing a situation where there's been a disclosure of a betrayal.
18:03.490 --> 18:05.674
[SPEAKER_01]: and it also affects all couples.
18:06.055 --> 18:14.070
[SPEAKER_01]: But particularly this population and so really being able to come in and say you do not need to suffer in this way.
18:14.131 --> 18:20.082
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure it's going to be bumpy as one moves into the road of recovery.
18:20.062 --> 18:24.970
[SPEAKER_01]: But these are tried, tested, effective skills.
18:25.311 --> 18:27.795
[SPEAKER_01]: And that really reinforced that, this is the skill set.
18:28.396 --> 18:42.238
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you learn it in a way where it is truly embodied and it becomes second nature to you, you can use this in any setting, not just in your personal relationship, but it changes your life, because you are able to
18:42.218 --> 19:07.281
[SPEAKER_01]: very quickly regulate yourself whether you've been in a car accident, whether you're overwhelmed by reading the news and some of the horrific stuff that often gets shared in our collective media these days, whether I have had currently or in crazy storms and due to climate change that
19:07.261 --> 19:12.147
[SPEAKER_01]: leak, I've got water running down the walls and my living room, you know, all of these things are triggers, right?
19:12.707 --> 19:18.193
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, losing money is a trigger, a massive change in your financial status, somebody breaking up, but he was a trigger.
19:18.854 --> 19:26.363
[SPEAKER_01]: And so part of our conversation, as I remember, it was also like this really actually needs to be taught to us in school.
19:26.663 --> 19:31.969
[SPEAKER_01]: This is fundamental,
19:31.949 --> 20:01.045
[SPEAKER_01]: it is kind of beyond me as I look back that really why are we not being taught this in school and you know maybe that's the future but we're starting here by teaching this it has to be the future that's just that's I declare it yeah and the terminology that I use for this approach is that we're developing relational emotional well being you mentioned the nervous system early the beginning and what I think a lot of people fail to recognize and it's something that is a big bug bear for me nervous system has become the kind of like
20:01.025 --> 20:05.031
[SPEAKER_01]: and everyone's talking about, you know, or regulating your nervous system with breath work.
20:05.432 --> 20:07.094
[SPEAKER_01]: There is so much more to it than that.
20:07.735 --> 20:10.900
[SPEAKER_01]: And the nervous system is a relational system.
20:11.220 --> 20:12.282
[SPEAKER_01]: They are not separate.
20:12.562 --> 20:13.804
[SPEAKER_01]: They are one and the same thing.
20:14.325 --> 20:24.400
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if we are in fight, okay, where our entire system is oriented towards taking action and as a consequence,
20:24.380 --> 20:29.388
[SPEAKER_01]: our orienting responses our eyes and our ears have like come into single focus.
20:29.909 --> 20:38.142
[SPEAKER_01]: A heart rate has accelerated and is pumping adrenaline through the body and focusing all the energy for us to literally move to attack.
20:38.162 --> 20:38.944
[SPEAKER_01]: We are not listening.
20:39.364 --> 20:41.087
[SPEAKER_01]: We cannot take an information.
20:41.388 --> 20:43.711
[SPEAKER_01]: We cannot retain that information.
20:44.232 --> 20:48.980
[SPEAKER_01]: We have limited relational capacity when we have moved into fight.
20:49.361 --> 20:51.484
[SPEAKER_01]: When we're in
20:51.464 --> 20:53.527
[SPEAKER_01]: zero relational ability.
20:53.968 --> 20:57.033
[SPEAKER_01]: And even when we're in flight, you know, all of these are on a spectrum.
20:57.454 --> 20:59.638
[SPEAKER_01]: When we're in flight, we're easily distracted.
20:59.678 --> 21:02.823
[SPEAKER_01]: There is anxiety flooding the system.
21:03.524 --> 21:07.110
[SPEAKER_01]: We're already primed away from connection.
21:07.090 --> 21:19.916
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it is so important to understand that if you don't know how to work with your own nervous system, you cannot move yourself into what is technically called social engagement.
21:20.357 --> 21:23.243
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I like to call is the friendly and free zone.
21:23.223 --> 21:35.370
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is where we naturally have capacity, where we have the ability to have compassion, where we can authentically connect with others, where we can converse.
21:35.912 --> 21:40.101
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the minute we are out of that, relational capacity is lost.
21:40.874 --> 21:46.639
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to sit with that for a moment, because just that term relational capacity is lost.
21:47.200 --> 21:53.826
[SPEAKER_02]: I think likely every person listening to this podcast can relate to that in a very profound way.
21:54.806 --> 21:57.068
[SPEAKER_02]: And so many of our listeners, not all.
21:57.509 --> 22:07.418
[SPEAKER_02]: There are people that are recovering from betrayal and are not in their relationship any longer, or maybe the are, but they are thinking that that is not the trajectory for them, right?
22:07.898 --> 22:08.839
[SPEAKER_02]: But many,
22:08.819 --> 22:11.403
[SPEAKER_02]: want to heal together.
22:11.984 --> 22:16.210
[SPEAKER_02]: And the problem is when there's no relational capacity that takes away all hope.
22:16.671 --> 22:17.672
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get close.
22:17.712 --> 22:18.774
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't get connected.
22:19.154 --> 22:25.904
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't be seen when somebody's shut down or fighting you or sort of on their way out the door.
22:26.726 --> 22:30.491
[SPEAKER_02]: And so these skills are crucial.
22:30.691 --> 22:31.473
[SPEAKER_02]: They're necessary.
22:31.873 --> 22:33.856
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to say the separate from betrayal.
22:34.257 --> 22:35.839
[SPEAKER_02]: Every human being.
22:35.819 --> 22:37.482
[SPEAKER_02]: should have them, should learn them.
22:37.563 --> 22:38.905
[SPEAKER_02]: We are at such a deficit.
22:39.226 --> 22:48.204
[SPEAKER_02]: I won't let myself go too far down this rabbit hole, but we are at a deficit as human beings in that we are not prepared to deal with life, right?
22:48.364 --> 22:50.208
[SPEAKER_02]: Conflict is a part of life.
22:50.709 --> 22:53.254
[SPEAKER_02]: Relationships is what life's all about.
22:53.234 --> 23:01.351
[SPEAKER_02]: We are actually in my opinion, socialized a way from learning the tools and having the capacity to have healthy relationships.
23:01.531 --> 23:11.833
[SPEAKER_02]: And so let's come back together for a second and just talk to people who are thinking, well, this sounds like exactly what I need or this sounds like this is what we need as a couple.
23:11.982 --> 23:20.194
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the things that I think is very vital to recognise is that our whole structure has changed in the last hundred years.
23:20.774 --> 23:21.596
[SPEAKER_01]: We are tribal.
23:21.776 --> 23:31.770
[SPEAKER_01]: We historically lived in small village-type settings off the land where actually nature was doing a lot of this work for us, regulating our nervous system.
23:32.131 --> 23:39.441
[SPEAKER_01]: All this studies show, you know, if you go and do forest bathing, spend time in nature, it co-regulates us, okay?
23:39.691 --> 23:51.627
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, albeit that it wasn't necessarily easy, we were self-sustaining, we had animals, dairy products, some vegetables, fruits around us, and if not, we shared.
23:51.647 --> 23:57.054
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there was several factors leading into this one as the economic system that we're in.
23:57.495 --> 24:01.260
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is very important, particularly at current moment, whereby
24:01.240 --> 24:04.125
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got hyperinflation, we've got devaluation of currency.
24:04.605 --> 24:13.099
[SPEAKER_01]: The economic system pushes us into survival mode, especially when the economy is so challenging.
24:13.199 --> 24:14.861
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so expensive for people.
24:15.322 --> 24:19.789
[SPEAKER_01]: So that has us in fight flight pretty much all the time, anyway.
24:19.769 --> 24:30.083
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the, I'm going to use the worst degradation of the traditional family unit, meaning that you often lived close by to immediate family members and everyone spread out.
24:30.764 --> 24:37.212
[SPEAKER_01]: So what we're all doing, doing, we're just doing, and we're doing so much more than we have used to.
24:37.252 --> 24:38.554
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
24:38.534 --> 24:45.384
[SPEAKER_01]: all of these factors feed into this collective nervous system, hyper arousal, okay?
24:45.784 --> 24:47.527
[SPEAKER_01]: But we haven't learned what you just said.
24:47.547 --> 24:53.756
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't really educated ourselves in all, you know, I'm delirious with the state I'm in, but I don't know what to do.
24:54.537 --> 25:01.707
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is where the education I see really comes in and we're kind of catching up with ourselves as we often do as humans.
25:01.687 --> 25:06.696
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also to just acknowledge, this is still relatively new neurophysiological science.
25:06.716 --> 25:08.820
[SPEAKER_01]: There's only really been around for 20, 30 years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't understand this about our system, you know, through the great legends of Stephen Podiers and co who really helped bring this forward as a science.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I think we can perhaps, you know, let ourselves a little off the hook there, is what I wanted to say.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So now let's come back.
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[SPEAKER_02]: How have these life-saving tools personally helped you in your life?
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[SPEAKER_02]: How is your life different today?
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[SPEAKER_02]: Then the time before you sort of did this deep dive into the world of somatic therapy and somatic life skills.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If I go back to my 20s, I mean, my early 50s, a lot of times I would be in situations where I would be dysregulating, meaning there would be words that I would want to share, whether it's coming from my soul or ego, I don't know, but there would be things that I would be wanting to speak up on, but I could not.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was, you know, tight throat overwhelm sensation, fight flight driven by fear of if I say this, I may be going to either get rejected or the other person that's going to get angry.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I was living in silence quite a lot and I know some people are on the other end of the spectrum.
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[SPEAKER_01]: where they are shouting and running and spewing everything all over everybody.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there's this sort of two degrees here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But for me personally, first of all, I was fully bought out of freeze, which was incredible to experience fight in my system for the first time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and then you know with development that led to this ability to begin to speak up for myself to stop being conflict avoidin to assert my needs.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just about courage, you know, this is hard for people to understand, well, why wouldn't you speak up your needs?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, ways you're courage.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when you'll nervous system is in terror from other traumas, you just can't.
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[SPEAKER_01]: learn how.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the how is actually being able to manage the overwhelming sensation of what's happening in your nervous system, worrying in resource work with the somatic practice that contains you and regulates you enough that you can remain in your adult self and communicate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: knowing to that you're not enmeshed with your emotional response of the other person.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that if needs be, and this is the option for flight, you can walk away, and you can put yourself back into a place of safety.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so there is a lot to it, but really for me, I think that deep down I've probably always been a little bit of an activist, an advocate, but that was not happening.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now I have that capacity.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, oh my god, Gemini is such an activist.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You would definitely have
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have different relationships because that conflict avoidant part of me would like this people pleasing, I was forening, I was putting up with a lot which is really destructive to our own health in the long run but particularly I'd say in romantic dynamics but also in work dynamics.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, exploitation is only possible really when the recipient
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[SPEAKER_01]: is complicated one is not prepared to stand up for their rights and their needs to articulate no boundaries come out of our nervous system capacity to speak up for ourselves.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think the greatest thing for me is that
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[SPEAKER_01]: It really doesn't matter what setting I'm in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is the biggest shift that happens through this work is expanding your own capacity to be able to detect and really were playing detectives as we're learning this work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Recognizing from a place of self observation, the behaviours which you're beginning to engage in as well as the sensations which kind of give you like verification.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I'm moving into flight right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, I'm witnessing my behavior and my sensations.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going into fight right now.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not to say that either of those things are bad.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're not they're part of our survival mechanism.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But especially in the context of interpersonal dynamics, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, my current situation, flooding, you know, I don't want to write a shouting, Randy emailed my landlord.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to regulate myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to resource myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to be able to write something that has clear requests in it, my needs, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: References the law is calm and considerate and also speaks to the humanity in the situation.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I have that capacity.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that my ability to live in what I refer to as adult self is where I spend 90% of my time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas historically, in contrast, I was flooded by inner child parts that were as I described before ping-ponging me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But doing these states,
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[SPEAKER_01]: equally the opposite end of the spectrum 90% of the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so really if you grow up with trauma in your childhood, this work is actually about growing ourselves up so that we can actually act like adults in situations.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Because we have the skills, the tools, the capacity to recognize and observe ourselves okay, nope, I need to you know rain it in, I need to regulate
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm seeing myself now calm down into the green zone where I'm in front of Liam Free.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go and communicate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go in and ask for my need to be met.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I can go in the assert the boundary that needs to be asserted.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so the beauty of this actually when multiple people learn this in a setting, whether it's two people as a couple, or an entire family, kids included.
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[SPEAKER_01]: is that everyone can actually support each other too because what you're learning is the capacity for self-regulation and we cannot correctulate someone else unless we are in friendly and free unless we're in social engagement, unless we're in the green zone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so by gaining that skill set as parents, as a couple, you can also pass that down to your kids but then you can all help each other.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, I was running during COVID training programs in Thailand.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was called.
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[SPEAKER_01]: trauma awareness becoming a safer spaceholder, and I was teaching this work to facilitators to retreat leaders, to others, psychologists, psychotherapists, swimming teachers, priests, and we had people from all sorts of life coming into these programs.
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[SPEAKER_01]: in order to be able to develop the capacity in themselves to make themselves safer spaceholders because it's your nervous system that leads the room.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But equally, you need skills to be able to go in there and respond when someone else in your space completely dysregulates and goes into shut down a breeze.
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[SPEAKER_01]: or is in a fight response, you know, who works in a profession where people, you know, they're upset and they're complaining and they're throwing them toys out the prime, how do you respond to that?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, the same way that you respond to your partner, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I've done a lot of trainings, a lot of studies, I've traveled the world, I've been to 57 countries, I have gained so much life experience.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And this honestly has been the single most valuable skills that I have ever learned because it comes into every single interaction, every single day of my life because our nervous systems are in a permanent dynamic, state change with what's happening inside of us and what is happening outside of us and the people that we're relating to.
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[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, thank you for sharing all of that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of personal information.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that that's the best way for other people to sort of conceptualize what their life can look like.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I really think that's a good place to leave this because if anybody's listening or has listened to that description that you just gave and they're like, oh my god, that's what I want.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please, I'll take that then explore the program, just go to the website
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[SPEAKER_02]: We have two programs starting in April.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They're both called triggered to together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: One program is specifically for couples, so you can actually do this work as a couple.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other is for individuals.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that can be individuals who are no longer in the relationship.
33:35.768 --> 33:39.735
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be for individuals that are in a relationship, but are choosing to do the work by themselves.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not in a group setting where there's going to be other couples.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So if any of this sounds interesting, please do learn more.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You can also schedule a free call with one of our intake coordinators who can tell you more.
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[SPEAKER_02]: The best news about these programs is not just that you're going to be getting all of this incredible content and the skills the Gemini's been talking about, but she is personally leading this program.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So she will be showing up every week for 90 minute sessions to actually guide you through the education and also the integration.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope you'll check it out.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I'm really, really honored to be offering these new programs.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, Gemini, thank you very, very grateful, very excited, and to all our listeners, as always, keep having hope.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hope is there, and our goal at helping couples heal is to continue to bring you experts, programs, services that will continue to support you in healing.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Your hearts, your systems, your relationships, yourself.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Take a care, let's see you again soon.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for listening to the Helping Couples Heal Podcast, where you're healing is our number one priority.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like additional resources about the trail trauma, which will learn more about our coaching services, please visit HelpingCouplesheal.com or call 562-379-4325.
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[SPEAKER_00]: our help is available worldwide.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Please support helping couples heal and continuing to reach others impacted by betrayal trauma by leaving a review on iTunes and sharing this podcast with someone you care about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For additional support, follow us on Instagram and consider joining our helping couples heal private Facebook community.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't an easy journey, but you don't have to do it alone.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, thank you for listening.
