#75: Coping with Grief - Tools for Processing Profound Loss with Dr Monia Wieliczko (Grief Series Part 2)

WEBVTT
00:00:02.604 --> 00:00:07.274
If you're looking to improve your mental health and well-being, then keep listening.
00:00:07.274 --> 00:00:15.773
I'm Dr Liz White, a consultant clinical psychologist with over 20 years of experience.
00:00:15.773 --> 00:00:24.634
Whether you're a frazzled parent, a stressed out professional or finding your way through the challenges of midlife, you're in the right place.
00:00:24.634 --> 00:00:26.996
Or finding your way through the challenges of midlife?
00:00:26.996 --> 00:00:28.460
You're in the right place.
00:00:28.460 --> 00:00:43.093
Through a mix of solo episodes and insightful conversations with expert psychologists and therapists, I'm bringing you evidence-based tools and strategies to help you navigate life's ups and downs with confidence, clarity and compassion.
00:00:43.093 --> 00:00:51.709
With confidence, clarity and compassion.
00:00:51.709 --> 00:00:53.359
This is your space to feel seen, supported and empowered.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:58.936
Welcome to Hello Therapy.
00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:07.983
Welcome back to the second and final part of our mini-series on grief.
00:01:07.983 --> 00:01:09.950
I'm back talking with Dr Monica Velichko, a clinical psychologist and grief specialist.
00:01:09.950 --> 00:01:24.030
In this episode, we're focusing on coping after loss and how to survive those first days and weeks, as well as what to do as the months go by and the reality of loss and not having the person in your life anymore settles in.
00:01:24.030 --> 00:01:37.007
We discuss why it's so important to lower your expectations, particularly in those first weeks, focusing on simple survival, self-care and being open to letting others support you.
00:01:37.007 --> 00:01:48.006
Our discussion also tackles the myths around grieving in isolation, and how connecting with others can help regulate those really intense and very difficult emotions.
00:01:48.006 --> 00:02:05.656
We touch on the invaluable role of rituals in maintaining connections to those we've lost, the importance of seeking help if you're feeling stuck or frozen in your grief, and the real physical impact that unprocessed loss can have on your health.
00:02:06.137 --> 00:02:17.002
So, whether you're grieving yourself or supporting someone who is, this episode is a compassionate guide through one of life's most challenging experiences.
00:02:17.002 --> 00:02:19.186
So let's dive in.
00:02:19.186 --> 00:02:25.693
So shall we switch gears a little bit and have a think about coping.
00:02:25.693 --> 00:02:34.777
So somebody, somebody in those sort of first days, hours, weeks of of a loss what advice would you give to someone?
00:02:34.777 --> 00:02:38.146
How does somebody navigate those those first early weeks?
00:02:39.290 --> 00:02:48.973
well, I would say it's all about surviving those first few weeks and days, and I think it's it's all about reducing your expectations to the minimum.
00:02:48.973 --> 00:02:53.479
So what is the absolute minimum you need to do to get through?
00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.189
So forget about doing everything.
00:02:56.189 --> 00:03:04.787
Just give yourself a break, because your brain is completely flooded by those stress hormones, so it's really important to slow down.
00:03:04.787 --> 00:03:11.091
Is completely flooded by those stress hormones, so it's really important to slow down, because actually, I think it's all about having to focus on the most basic needs.
00:03:11.091 --> 00:03:12.993
So, are you drinking enough?
00:03:12.993 --> 00:03:15.504
Are you having enough time to rest?
00:03:15.504 --> 00:03:22.143
Are you in a place where you can just get support from your neighbors, from your family?
00:03:22.143 --> 00:03:23.365
Can they cook for you?
00:03:23.365 --> 00:03:24.526
Can they bring you something?
00:03:24.687 --> 00:03:27.852
It's not about processing what happened in that moment.
00:03:27.852 --> 00:03:44.072
It's all about having connections with other people as much as you can, because this is such a huge misconception about grief that we should be grieving I don't know in silence in our own homes, when no one's watching, which is completely ridiculous.
00:03:44.072 --> 00:03:46.121
You can't grieve by yourself.
00:03:46.121 --> 00:03:54.164
You have to have someone else with you, at least a group of people that you can experience that grief with.
00:03:54.164 --> 00:04:06.653
It works wonders in terms of how much quicker and better you're able to regain that sense of safety and stability in your own body, and it's called co-regulation.
00:04:06.653 --> 00:04:16.706
So imagine, if you are in a group of people who are able to acknowledge your feelings, who are feeling what you're feeling, there's something magical that happens.
00:04:16.706 --> 00:04:40.802
And that's why support groups for grief are so important as well later on in the grief journey Is that when you're in a group of people who understand and validate your feelings and acknowledge and make room for them, something very important happens physiologically that we are able to regulate better, especially if there's someone else who may be slightly less affected or had slightly different relationship with the person who died.
00:04:40.802 --> 00:04:49.858
They understand what you're going through, but they're also able to look after you a bit more so if you're the main, but they're also able to look after you a bit more so if you're the main person affected by by the loss or one of the few.
00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:51.221
It's really important to have.
00:04:51.221 --> 00:05:05.182
That's why people come in and bring you food, but maybe sometimes, instead of just bringing that casserole, some other dish, maybe it's also important just to sit with that person, even if it is sitting in silence.
00:05:05.182 --> 00:05:10.045
But having that space where you can just be, it's really difficult to do.
00:05:10.045 --> 00:05:28.002
But the most important first aid for grief is just to allow yourself to be and don't expect other than the most significant, the most important burning issues that needs addressing.
00:05:28.002 --> 00:05:31.329
Everything else needs to wait and give yourself that time.
00:05:31.831 --> 00:05:52.886
Because one of the things that happen the vicious circle that tends to happen at the beginning is that we start to judge ourselves, we, we start to assess oh, I can't cope with this, I can't deal with this, and that really reinforces those negative beliefs that we're failing, that we can't cope with our feelings, and we avoid them even more.
00:05:52.886 --> 00:05:56.817
And the more we avoid them, the longer we stuck in this.
00:05:56.817 --> 00:06:01.464
We stuck in this cycle of stress and shock.
00:06:02.206 --> 00:06:10.702
And as much as this initial stage is really important, I often refer to it as an airbag in a car.
00:06:10.702 --> 00:06:30.250
So imagine if you're driving in a motorway and you have an accident and the airbag fills up with air and it absorbs the shock of the car crash and you might be shocked, you might lose your consciousness for a bit, but it's likely to protect you from completely breaking your body into pieces and it's similar with the state of shock.
00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:32.315
It really holds you tight.
00:06:32.315 --> 00:06:38.877
That means you can't process everything in one go and you won't be able to don't even try, but it will help you to slow down.
00:06:38.877 --> 00:06:44.079
Give buys you some time for your brain, for your mind, to be able to come to terms with what happened.
00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:45.973
So it's really important to hold that in mind.
00:06:45.973 --> 00:06:52.639
That, okay, it's not the most pleasant thing that happens uh, the shock but, it's really essential.
00:06:52.800 --> 00:07:05.485
That's the only survival mechanism we've got available when we're grieving in this kind of initial stage and if we fast forward, so the sort of managing grief in the longer term.
00:07:05.485 --> 00:07:09.300
So maybe we're months in to the grief journey.
00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:12.459
I appreciate I'm just sort of saying right, what are the quick tips?
00:07:12.459 --> 00:07:22.442
And I know there aren't quick tips, but someone listening that might be in that phase and maybe is struggling a bit with it and sort of having those thoughts.
00:07:22.442 --> 00:07:26.132
I'm still struggling, what, what would you say to that person?
00:07:26.454 --> 00:07:26.634
so.
00:07:26.634 --> 00:07:32.391
So I think what is really important, what is the task of mourning, is really the question here.
00:07:32.391 --> 00:07:38.290
So how do we relate to our grief, which is, I often think of grief as a relationship?
00:07:38.290 --> 00:07:40.273
We develop a different relationship.
00:07:40.273 --> 00:07:41.295
The person who died.
00:07:41.295 --> 00:07:45.002
It can't be in the same form and shape as when they were still alive.
00:07:45.002 --> 00:08:01.982
You have to find those different ways to connect with your loss and also decide which bits of that relationship you want to hold on to really tightly and value and cherish and which bits you can let go of and to make room for life around your loss.
00:08:02.182 --> 00:08:06.911
So I would say that it's a lot to do with creating certain rituals.
00:08:06.911 --> 00:08:12.583
It's about creating, maybe, ways you can hold on to that person.
00:08:12.583 --> 00:08:13.930
It could be all sorts of things.
00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:23.699
For me, music has been this incredible thing that I had in common with my late husband, and I still cherish listening to his music.
00:08:23.699 --> 00:08:30.982
Actually, the studio in which I'm in right now is a place the chair in which I'm sitting is where he was greeting his music.
00:08:30.982 --> 00:08:47.033
So for me and actually the intro to the podcast I'm recording is his music and to me that that's been such a wonderful way of celebrating his life, but also, you know, being interested in life and technology.
00:08:47.033 --> 00:08:52.000
He was really into AI before he was even famous.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:53.023
He was.
00:08:53.023 --> 00:09:04.510
I remember years ago it was like 2008, 2009, he was mining Bitcoins in our bedroom Before anyone knew anything about it.
00:09:04.772 --> 00:09:15.389
You see that there are certain things you can hold on to, and it's really important to find a way to develop that relationship after loss, so that person isn't completely gone.
00:09:15.389 --> 00:09:19.846
But it's equally important to be able to let go of certain aspects.
00:09:19.846 --> 00:09:23.865
For example, imagine you have a wardrobe full of their clothes.
00:09:23.865 --> 00:09:29.447
Keeping everything in it kind of makes unique things not so unique anymore.
00:09:29.447 --> 00:09:33.285
So you have to decide what you want to keep and what you want to let go of.
00:09:33.595 --> 00:09:38.440
It's really important, I think, and something that people struggle with because they worry or they feel really guilty.
00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:39.443
They struggle with guilt.
00:09:39.443 --> 00:09:57.125
So if that's part of this experience struggling with guilt or shame around wanting to have a life when that person is no longer here it's really important to talk about that or to find a way of verbalizing it, because guilt is such a crucial element of grieving process.
00:09:57.125 --> 00:10:15.342
So so those rituals really help, but also the things we need to do to be able to let go of those other aspects, like, I don't know, you won't keep all the books they have, or maybe you need to sell the house in which they lived, or, you know, there are certain things you need to let go of.
00:10:15.423 --> 00:10:25.456
Yeah and there are some circumstances, aren't there, where people completely, almost shut off from their grief, like they, they don't, it's like they don't go there.
00:10:25.456 --> 00:10:46.532
So for example, somebody who might, just who can't look at photos or videos and and sort of refuses to because if they do it will, you know, I guess that sort of open a can of worms kind of experience and a part of therapy might be helping that person do that in a way that's um an incremental way.
00:10:46.532 --> 00:10:48.096
But it's so important, isn't?
00:10:48.176 --> 00:10:53.953
it to, as you say, sort of, I guess, connect with that and then and then let go at the same time.
00:10:53.974 --> 00:11:16.426
Yeah I think in those circumstances, in most cases, what I see is there's an element of trauma that is blocking our ability to process what happened and, no matter how hard you're going to try, unless you've got professional help, it's probably going to be very difficult if it's been like a year or two years after it happened and you still have those flashbacks and something you can't really process.
00:11:16.426 --> 00:11:19.580
It's too disturbing, it's too difficult, you can't think of this.
00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:33.231
These are all symptoms of trauma, not grief, and I think these are the things that people get confused about and, to be honest, I didn't fully appreciate how hard it is to separate them out until I've experienced traumatic loss.
00:11:33.231 --> 00:11:43.640
So it's really important to notice that, that sometimes we think it's grief, but really we're talking about trauma and, as I'm guessing, with your grief MOT.
00:11:43.761 --> 00:11:57.890
That might help someone draw that out Absolutely, which is why it's so important to check out the show notes and see the link, because if you are struggling with grief then that might help guide the next step you will get to that.
00:11:58.032 --> 00:12:16.946
You will be highlighted in the results section and if, if you're in an early stage of grief, you're likely to be told uh okay, come back in six months time or a year's time to see how you're getting on and if your symptoms are still persisting at this level, well then it's maybe a sign to think about this a bit more.
00:12:16.946 --> 00:12:18.620
What can you do?
00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:28.465
Could you, for example, just going back to your question about what to do later on that could help with those rituals and letting go and processing information?
00:12:28.465 --> 00:12:31.705
So support groups, peer support groups, are brilliant for that.
00:12:31.705 --> 00:12:32.977
It doesn't have to be therapy.
00:12:32.977 --> 00:12:35.764
Not everyone and most people won't need therapy for grief.
00:12:35.965 --> 00:12:43.187
It's really important to know that, that let's not pathologize grief, because grief is a natural adaptive response to loss.
00:12:43.187 --> 00:12:53.216
But having that kind of experience with other people grieving really beautifully, open up spaces in you that you've never thought were there in the first place.
00:12:53.216 --> 00:13:16.562
But also just socializing, just speaking to people, finding a way of starting conversations and telling your friends, your family that it's okay to talk about it, and having some rituals as a family, not just on the anniversary, if you want to, because that's also another thing that not everyone wants to celebrate or have some kind of way of publicly experiencing their loss.
00:13:16.562 --> 00:13:24.746
So sometimes it could be something very simple like just you know naming that, that, that this is the day when they died it's enough sometimes.
00:13:24.846 --> 00:13:36.879
but but some people prefer to have some form of, I suppose, a routine or something they can do to mark that year that has another year that's passed or their birthday.
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:49.520
So it's really important to keep that integrating that loss into your life, but without it taking over your life, so just really focusing on how your body's showing up, how your grief is showing up in your body as well.
00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:53.918
So if you're having any physical health problems, grief is showing up in your body as well.
00:13:53.937 --> 00:14:02.061
So if you're having any physical health problems, get it checked, because there's a real thing like broken heart syndrome, inflammation, the range of autoimmune diseases that flare up after loss.
00:14:02.061 --> 00:14:10.743
Within the first two years after someone dies you're actually more likely to die okay, especially if you're menopausausal woman or after menopause.
00:14:10.743 --> 00:14:17.010
So these are real, unspoken about risks associated with loss, unprocessed loss.
00:14:17.010 --> 00:14:24.177
So if you're able to process your loss, deal with your feelings in a resilient way, this risk reduces.
00:14:24.177 --> 00:14:28.427
But unprocessed feelings they're likely to show up in your body.
00:14:28.427 --> 00:14:31.464
So it's really important to go and have it checked with your GP.
00:14:31.715 --> 00:14:43.756
If you're having a problem with your stomach or heart palpitations or something doesn't feel quite right, just go and get it checked and don't let it be dismissed as it's just your grief, because it might not be.
00:14:43.756 --> 00:14:49.119
It's likely to be, but it might not be, and if that's the case you really need to keep an eye on that.
00:14:49.119 --> 00:14:52.567
So it's not to scare anyone about any risks.
00:14:52.567 --> 00:14:58.440
Likelihood is you're going to die is not that great in the grand scheme of things, but it's a real thing.
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:10.261
People have heart problems similar to a heart attack that manifest in a very similar way that where the functioning of their heart is disturbed for a period of time, and it can have.
00:15:10.261 --> 00:15:20.754
Now we know from recent research that it can have long-term effect on their cart, and within five years after someone dies the likelihood of death is increased.
00:15:20.754 --> 00:15:22.479
So it's it's.
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:29.581
It's important to keep that in mind that there are certain things we can avoid if we get it checked and get the help early on.
00:15:29.581 --> 00:16:05.998
So yeah, so that's another thing, message yeah, so if you're like six year, six months or a year or two years after loss and you can feel something's not quite right with your body, yeah, it's important to get it checked well, monica, thank you so much for being here today and and thank you for sharing your experience both clinically and and in your life and the loss of your husband, because I think it's as we said at the beginning, it's so important to have these conversations and I think I'm going to ask you back because I think we've touched on so many areas here that I think need a little bit more depth.
00:16:06.219 --> 00:16:20.336
You know, obviously that's up to you whether you come back or not, I'll be very happy to do that absolutely but, yeah, anyone that's listening, go and check out, uh, a guide, a guide to the afterlife podcast, because it's a really great one.
00:16:20.336 --> 00:16:22.623
But thank you so much, thank you so much for having me.
00:16:22.663 --> 00:16:23.645
It's been real pleasure.
00:16:23.645 --> 00:16:31.009
And yes, anytime you want me to talk about grief, give me a call, I'm always there waiting and, yeah, I'm really.
00:16:31.009 --> 00:16:32.479
I've really enjoyed talking to you.
00:16:32.479 --> 00:16:49.298
Listen, it's a wonderful podcast you've got as well, and it's been so nice to have a chat with a fellow psychologist who's trying to really um educate people about mental health and and we don't talk about so many different issues to do with mental health.
00:16:49.298 --> 00:16:55.238
Thank you so much for for doing all you're doing for us, because it's greatly appreciated by many.
00:16:57.042 --> 00:17:00.629
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Hello Therapy.
00:17:00.629 --> 00:17:04.864
We'd love for you to join our growing community over on Substack.
00:17:04.864 --> 00:17:17.243
You can sign up for free or become a paid subscriber for access to exclusive perks like never before seen video interviews and downloadable guides designed to support your mental health.
00:17:17.243 --> 00:17:22.701
If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe so you never miss a new release.
00:17:22.701 --> 00:17:29.140
And if you got value from this episode, it would mean the world if you left a five star review.
00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:32.346
As always, check the show notes for my full disclaimer.
00:17:32.346 --> 00:17:34.028
Thanks again for listening.