00:00:00
Speaker 1: 20 away from six.
00:00:01
Speaker 2: The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty, a name you can trust locally and globally.
00:00:07
Speaker 1: On The Huddle this evening, we have Phil O'Reilly, Iron Duke Partners, former Business New Zealand Chief Executive.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: Hello, Phil.
00:00:11
Speaker 4: How are you doing?
00:00:13
Speaker 1: Hard launching. I'm good, thank you. Hard launching. Matt Ball, the Property Investors Federation Advocacy Manager. How are you feeling, Matt?
00:00:18
Speaker 3: Oh, pretty good.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Are you nervous?
00:00:20
Speaker 3: A little bit nervous.
00:00:20
Speaker 1: Okay, so, no, don't be nervous because Phil is lovely.
00:00:23
Speaker 3: Aren't you, Phil? I'm in the mothership.
00:00:26
Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, my God.
00:00:27
Speaker 1: Phil's going to look after you. Phil, let's start with you, because old mate's just got to get over his nerves for a hot second here. How do you like that Labour policy?
00:00:34
Speaker 4: Oh, look, it's a good bit of retail politics, isn't it? You know, we'll protect you. In fact, that probably won't happen. I mean, to some extent... If I'm going to go onto a website and be charged a ticket fee, well, I can get out of the website. I don't have to buy the ticket. I'm not forced to go ahead and say, please complete the sale. So this is good retail policy. That might happen, and I can quite understand some of that really misleading and deceptive stuff, paint insurance and that sort of gear. Well, that's probably covered actually under misleading and deceptive conduct and trade more generally. But it's good retail politics for Marina, isn't it? She's saying, look, I'll protect you on all this. In fact, probably can't and probably will actually increase prices more generally by doing so. But look, it's good retail politics. Good for her. This is a cost of living election and that's what they're doing. And they're not alone. All the political parties have got some good retail politics going on right now.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point. I was surprised, Matt, to find out that if you want to unsubscribe from the New York Times, it's different here than it is in the States. Yes, I know.
00:01:26
Speaker 3: I was surprised as well. I wondered why it was so hard to do. I think this is great policy. I think it's actually, you know, everyone feels that, that number she gave. I think three quarters of people have experienced this and don't like it 100%. So I think this is a win of a policy and I think she is also great at selling it too.
00:01:43
Speaker 1: She's pretty good, eh? She is actually really impressive. She's a great leader. Oh, and we're pumping, like day one and we're pumping leaders.
00:01:50
Speaker 4: Already Matt's being controversial here. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker 3: Oh, is that controversial?
00:01:54
Speaker 1: I thought that that was just accepted wisdom that Arena Williams, Phil, was in the running for a potential leader.
00:01:59
Speaker 4: But are you suggesting, Matt, that there might be a leadership challenge against Chris Hipkins?
00:02:03
Speaker 3: I couldn't possibly comment.
00:02:04
Speaker 1: Hey, but on the subject of weird policies, did you see that one, Phil, from National, where it wants to streamline an already super streamlined trans-transmen travel experience?
00:02:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's actually a bigger game there because what will happen eventually is hopefully we'll be able to move all around the world doing that, or certainly amongst many countries doing that, and that will actually save quite a bit of time. It's one that travels a lot. It'll save me a bit of time at Sydney Airport. To be fair, the Australian border is clunkier than the New Zealand border by some distance, as any traveller will know. So it'll save me a bit of time. But, gee, if you can get the UK to do it, if you can get the EU to do it, if you can get Asia to do it, man, Singapore, man, that'll be worth it. So worry less about the impact on the trans-Tasman experience. and think more that this is actually a bit of a coalition of the willing between Australia and New Zealand. Say, look, we can do it. Why don't you join us? Hopefully in the future, we'll all be able to walk to airports and not, because it will be done biometrically. We won't have to worry about any of this stuff.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Okay, I love that. But I am going to say right now, Matt, that, so what she's doing, this is Louise, what Louise Upston is doing is she's saying, put your passport away and get your phone out and scan your phone. That is a pain in my butt because now I've got to log in with my face and now I've got to find the app. My passport's actually faster than my phone, isn't it?
00:03:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then your phone runs out of battery.
00:03:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now you're stuck.
00:03:18
Speaker 3: I think Labour's policy is a hit. I think this one is a miss. It was going to happen anyway. How many seconds is it going to save me? I mean, great, I get down to the baggage hall and I can wait for my baggage.
00:03:28
Speaker 4: A bit longer.
00:03:29
Speaker 1: Fair point that you make.
00:03:29
Speaker 3: I tell you what would be good, put duty free after we go through customs and then we'll save time and get more duty free. That's a good one.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Oh, I like that.
00:03:36
Speaker 4: Which is what happens at Wellington Airport, I should tell you. Fly through Wellington, you'll see exactly that happening.
00:03:41
Speaker 1: No, this is a good point because it often is. What I do is I say to him, because my husband always wants to buy the whisky. And I go, I'm not waiting for you because I want to get through that customs line fast. So I leave him in the liquor store and just power through with the kids.
00:03:54
Speaker 4: 100%. That is dangerous. That's dangerous.
00:03:57
Speaker 1: It is dangerous for all involved. Because one time he almost missed me and I just got in an Uber. Almost. We'll take a break. Come back shortly.
00:04:04
Speaker 2: The Huddle, with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty, the only truly global brand.
00:04:09
Speaker 1: Right, you're back with The Huddle, Matt Ball and Phil O'Reilly. Matt, I don't think this is the outcome that we want in Wellington City Council, do we? Them being charged over the sewage leak.
00:04:18
Speaker 3: No, we don't want this. Look, I did the numbers. If they're successful, if they get their 10 million per case, it's 100 million bucks.
00:04:26
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: Across 83,000 ratepayers, that's 1,200 bucks each. There will be pitchforks in the street if that happens. OK, maybe that's not going to, you know, that's not what's going to happen. But it's about making someone accountable. And if it is a large company that should be held accountable, then do that. If it is some people within council who should be held accountable, then do that. Otherwise, forget this.
00:04:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker 1: What do you think, Phil? Because the problem is you can't be charging the ratepayers. Like, you haven't done anything wrong, Phil. But nor can you just wet bus ticket this one. The solution, what is the solution?
00:04:58
Speaker 4: Well, there's a very simple thing here. It's the law is the law is the law, and it applies to the private and the public sector. Just think about where the Wellington Water, Te Akiwai, whatever they call themselves, was a private company, and they did that. We'd all be screaming and shouting and saying, gosh, hang them high, head on a pike, they should go to jail. Just because it's a publicly owned organisation, you say, oh, I'll let them off. You can't do that. You've got to be the same for everybody, and that's a big part of of the competitiveness of any country that state-owned organisations, or council-owned in this case, should be treated exactly the same before the law as private organisations. Now, I doubt they'll be charged $ 100 million, but actually, if I was a shareholder in that company, and it was a private company, and they got fined, nothing to do with me as a shareholder, and yet it costs me. That's the very point of what's going on, and so it's actually vital That Wellington City Council and Te Akiwai are treated just as they would be if they were water company limited. Some guy owned in the US was doing the same thing. Very important to New Zealand that exactly that happened.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: Is the difference not that if you were a shareholder in a private business, you willingly and voluntarily put your money in there? You have no choice as a ratepayer.
00:06:06
Speaker 4: Well, pass a law that says that the laws don't apply to public companies. Pass that law, because the law doesn't say that. It says it applies to everyone, no matter who owns it, and that's the way these things need to be. Otherwise, what you're going to get is private companies saying, well, how can that be? Why should we be liable to environmental damage, but councils get let off scoffery? Because the point about the fining process and the charging process is is to make sure that people are disciplined. And clearly Wellington City Council and Te Akiwai were not. And I say that as a Wellington City ratepayer. I think they should be held up just as they would be if they were a private company and they should be held to account because they made a mistake and they did not do their fiduciary duty, nor did they do their public duty. So I'm very strong on this. You've got to charge them just the same.
00:06:52
Speaker 1: I take the point. And the difference again, though, between a private company and a public company like Wellington City Council is is that a private company would root out the person who did this and sack their ass. Whereas in public company or a public organisation like Wellington City Council, they go, we don't actually want to know. It was systemic.
00:07:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that is the problem for me. This is like punching yourself in the head to get some kind of good outcome. It's not going to work. The people who are responsible for this are long gone. If we could find them and we can hold them accountable, then fine. But doing this and spending... God knows how much ratepayers' money on this. I don't think it's going to do anything productive.
00:07:27
Speaker 1: Do you think, Phil, that Chippy is right, that this overhang thing is a rort?
00:07:34
Speaker 4: Look, it's a feature of the system. And I think it... John Key said it really well. He said, if you want stake, order stake. And I think that's right. I mean, all this rubbish... It's all on the left and the right, by the way. The Māori Party out saying, you know, just vote for us in the seats and give your vote to the Greens is an attempt... a ridiculous attempt to try and engineer an overhang out on the left. The stuff that's going on over on the right is a similarly stupid idea. It's a feature of our system. It's a feature of MMP that I don't like. The Germans have tried to get rid of it without much success, by the way. But I think everybody should just go, look, that's crazy. If you want to vote, everybody says two ticks. My view, just do two ticks. If you try and get too clever about it, say, well, do this and do a bit of that, and maybe that'll help, it's just going to be a mess. And I think people will lose faith in the electoral system. So I think we should just make our own choices about how we vote and not be told by various pressure groups and lobby groups and political parties how we should split our vote or whatever. We should just make our own choices based on the policies.
00:08:31
Speaker 1: Phil, that is rich because the National Party has for the longest time told the people of Epsom to split their vote. So they often tell, you know, it happens all the time. What do you think, Matt?
00:08:41
Speaker 3: I think Phil's right on this one. It is a feature of the system. If it works, it will mean change. So if Te Pari Māori' s attempt works, then There you go. Maori seats are gone. I think if the right gets their way, then there will be some change to the system. But I actually don't think it'll work. You're trying to coordinate a whole bunch of people. And I think what Harry Moby's doing is shooting his side in the foot. He's given Hipkins a wonderful opening. And he's come in and said, oh, it's all right. It's foreign money. We earn all our money overseas. That's worse. So, no, he's given Hipkins an opening. Just sit down.
00:09:14
Speaker 1: Because I think you've hit the nail on the head, Matt. The biggest problem is trying to coordinate that many vultures. They will collapse the National Party vote because it'll only half work.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: Lord, guys.
00:09:27
Speaker 4: You can tell the voters of Epsom one thing, but try to tell the whole National Party voting quarter to do something different or the whole Maori voting quarter to do something different. Ridiculous.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, such a good point.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: Guys, thank you very much. It's a delight to have you both. You feel okay?
00:09:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm good.
00:09:38
Speaker 1: He's fine.
00:09:38
Speaker 3: He survived it.
00:09:39
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Phil O'Reilly, Matt Ball. A huddle this evening.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive, listen live to Newstalk ZB from 4pm weekdays or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: 20 away from six.
00:00:01
Speaker 2: The Huddle with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty, a name you can trust locally and globally.
00:00:07
Speaker 1: On The Huddle this evening, we have Phil O'Reilly, Iron Duke Partners, former Business New Zealand Chief Executive.
00:00:11
Speaker 3: Hello, Phil.
00:00:11
Speaker 4: How are you doing?
00:00:13
Speaker 1: Hard launching. I'm good, thank you. Hard launching. Matt Ball, the Property Investors Federation Advocacy Manager. How are you feeling, Matt?
00:00:18
Speaker 3: Oh, pretty good.
00:00:19
Speaker 2: Are you nervous?
00:00:20
Speaker 3: A little bit nervous.
00:00:20
Speaker 1: Okay, so, no, don't be nervous because Phil is lovely.
00:00:23
Speaker 3: Aren't you, Phil? I'm in the mothership.
00:00:26
Speaker 4: Yeah. Oh, my God.
00:00:27
Speaker 1: Phil's going to look after you. Phil, let's start with you, because old mate's just got to get over his nerves for a hot second here. How do you like that Labour policy?
00:00:34
Speaker 4: Oh, look, it's a good bit of retail politics, isn't it? You know, we'll protect you. In fact, that probably won't happen. I mean, to some extent... If I'm going to go onto a website and be charged a ticket fee, well, I can get out of the website. I don't have to buy the ticket. I'm not forced to go ahead and say, please complete the sale. So this is good retail policy. That might happen, and I can quite understand some of that really misleading and deceptive stuff, paint insurance and that sort of gear. Well, that's probably covered actually under misleading and deceptive conduct and trade more generally. But it's good retail politics for Marina, isn't it? She's saying, look, I'll protect you on all this. In fact, probably can't and probably will actually increase prices more generally by doing so. But look, it's good retail politics. Good for her. This is a cost of living election and that's what they're doing. And they're not alone. All the political parties have got some good retail politics going on right now.
00:01:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, fair point. I was surprised, Matt, to find out that if you want to unsubscribe from the New York Times, it's different here than it is in the States. Yes, I know.
00:01:26
Speaker 3: I was surprised as well. I wondered why it was so hard to do. I think this is great policy. I think it's actually, you know, everyone feels that, that number she gave. I think three quarters of people have experienced this and don't like it 100%. So I think this is a win of a policy and I think she is also great at selling it too.
00:01:43
Speaker 1: She's pretty good, eh? She is actually really impressive. She's a great leader. Oh, and we're pumping, like day one and we're pumping leaders.
00:01:50
Speaker 4: Already Matt's being controversial here. Yeah, yeah.
00:01:52
Speaker 3: Oh, is that controversial?
00:01:54
Speaker 1: I thought that that was just accepted wisdom that Arena Williams, Phil, was in the running for a potential leader.
00:01:59
Speaker 4: But are you suggesting, Matt, that there might be a leadership challenge against Chris Hipkins?
00:02:03
Speaker 3: I couldn't possibly comment.
00:02:04
Speaker 1: Hey, but on the subject of weird policies, did you see that one, Phil, from National, where it wants to streamline an already super streamlined trans-transmen travel experience?
00:02:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's actually a bigger game there because what will happen eventually is hopefully we'll be able to move all around the world doing that, or certainly amongst many countries doing that, and that will actually save quite a bit of time. It's one that travels a lot. It'll save me a bit of time at Sydney Airport. To be fair, the Australian border is clunkier than the New Zealand border by some distance, as any traveller will know. So it'll save me a bit of time. But, gee, if you can get the UK to do it, if you can get the EU to do it, if you can get Asia to do it, man, Singapore, man, that'll be worth it. So worry less about the impact on the trans-Tasman experience. and think more that this is actually a bit of a coalition of the willing between Australia and New Zealand. Say, look, we can do it. Why don't you join us? Hopefully in the future, we'll all be able to walk to airports and not, because it will be done biometrically. We won't have to worry about any of this stuff.
00:02:58
Speaker 1: Okay, I love that. But I am going to say right now, Matt, that, so what she's doing, this is Louise, what Louise Upston is doing is she's saying, put your passport away and get your phone out and scan your phone. That is a pain in my butt because now I've got to log in with my face and now I've got to find the app. My passport's actually faster than my phone, isn't it?
00:03:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then your phone runs out of battery.
00:03:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now you're stuck.
00:03:18
Speaker 3: I think Labour's policy is a hit. I think this one is a miss. It was going to happen anyway. How many seconds is it going to save me? I mean, great, I get down to the baggage hall and I can wait for my baggage.
00:03:28
Speaker 4: A bit longer.
00:03:29
Speaker 1: Fair point that you make.
00:03:29
Speaker 3: I tell you what would be good, put duty free after we go through customs and then we'll save time and get more duty free. That's a good one.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: Oh, I like that.
00:03:36
Speaker 4: Which is what happens at Wellington Airport, I should tell you. Fly through Wellington, you'll see exactly that happening.
00:03:41
Speaker 1: No, this is a good point because it often is. What I do is I say to him, because my husband always wants to buy the whisky. And I go, I'm not waiting for you because I want to get through that customs line fast. So I leave him in the liquor store and just power through with the kids.
00:03:54
Speaker 4: 100%. That is dangerous. That's dangerous.
00:03:57
Speaker 1: It is dangerous for all involved. Because one time he almost missed me and I just got in an Uber. Almost. We'll take a break. Come back shortly.
00:04:04
Speaker 2: The Huddle, with New Zealand Sotheby's International Realty, the only truly global brand.
00:04:09
Speaker 1: Right, you're back with The Huddle, Matt Ball and Phil O'Reilly. Matt, I don't think this is the outcome that we want in Wellington City Council, do we? Them being charged over the sewage leak.
00:04:18
Speaker 3: No, we don't want this. Look, I did the numbers. If they're successful, if they get their 10 million per case, it's 100 million bucks.
00:04:26
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: Across 83,000 ratepayers, that's 1,200 bucks each. There will be pitchforks in the street if that happens. OK, maybe that's not going to, you know, that's not what's going to happen. But it's about making someone accountable. And if it is a large company that should be held accountable, then do that. If it is some people within council who should be held accountable, then do that. Otherwise, forget this.
00:04:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker 1: What do you think, Phil? Because the problem is you can't be charging the ratepayers. Like, you haven't done anything wrong, Phil. But nor can you just wet bus ticket this one. The solution, what is the solution?
00:04:58
Speaker 4: Well, there's a very simple thing here. It's the law is the law is the law, and it applies to the private and the public sector. Just think about where the Wellington Water, Te Akiwai, whatever they call themselves, was a private company, and they did that. We'd all be screaming and shouting and saying, gosh, hang them high, head on a pike, they should go to jail. Just because it's a publicly owned organisation, you say, oh, I'll let them off. You can't do that. You've got to be the same for everybody, and that's a big part of of the competitiveness of any country that state-owned organisations, or council-owned in this case, should be treated exactly the same before the law as private organisations. Now, I doubt they'll be charged $ 100 million, but actually, if I was a shareholder in that company, and it was a private company, and they got fined, nothing to do with me as a shareholder, and yet it costs me. That's the very point of what's going on, and so it's actually vital That Wellington City Council and Te Akiwai are treated just as they would be if they were water company limited. Some guy owned in the US was doing the same thing. Very important to New Zealand that exactly that happened.
00:05:57
Speaker 1: Is the difference not that if you were a shareholder in a private business, you willingly and voluntarily put your money in there? You have no choice as a ratepayer.
00:06:06
Speaker 4: Well, pass a law that says that the laws don't apply to public companies. Pass that law, because the law doesn't say that. It says it applies to everyone, no matter who owns it, and that's the way these things need to be. Otherwise, what you're going to get is private companies saying, well, how can that be? Why should we be liable to environmental damage, but councils get let off scoffery? Because the point about the fining process and the charging process is is to make sure that people are disciplined. And clearly Wellington City Council and Te Akiwai were not. And I say that as a Wellington City ratepayer. I think they should be held up just as they would be if they were a private company and they should be held to account because they made a mistake and they did not do their fiduciary duty, nor did they do their public duty. So I'm very strong on this. You've got to charge them just the same.
00:06:52
Speaker 1: I take the point. And the difference again, though, between a private company and a public company like Wellington City Council is is that a private company would root out the person who did this and sack their ass. Whereas in public company or a public organisation like Wellington City Council, they go, we don't actually want to know. It was systemic.
00:07:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that is the problem for me. This is like punching yourself in the head to get some kind of good outcome. It's not going to work. The people who are responsible for this are long gone. If we could find them and we can hold them accountable, then fine. But doing this and spending... God knows how much ratepayers' money on this. I don't think it's going to do anything productive.
00:07:27
Speaker 1: Do you think, Phil, that Chippy is right, that this overhang thing is a rort?
00:07:34
Speaker 4: Look, it's a feature of the system. And I think it... John Key said it really well. He said, if you want stake, order stake. And I think that's right. I mean, all this rubbish... It's all on the left and the right, by the way. The Māori Party out saying, you know, just vote for us in the seats and give your vote to the Greens is an attempt... a ridiculous attempt to try and engineer an overhang out on the left. The stuff that's going on over on the right is a similarly stupid idea. It's a feature of our system. It's a feature of MMP that I don't like. The Germans have tried to get rid of it without much success, by the way. But I think everybody should just go, look, that's crazy. If you want to vote, everybody says two ticks. My view, just do two ticks. If you try and get too clever about it, say, well, do this and do a bit of that, and maybe that'll help, it's just going to be a mess. And I think people will lose faith in the electoral system. So I think we should just make our own choices about how we vote and not be told by various pressure groups and lobby groups and political parties how we should split our vote or whatever. We should just make our own choices based on the policies.
00:08:31
Speaker 1: Phil, that is rich because the National Party has for the longest time told the people of Epsom to split their vote. So they often tell, you know, it happens all the time. What do you think, Matt?
00:08:41
Speaker 3: I think Phil's right on this one. It is a feature of the system. If it works, it will mean change. So if Te Pari Māori' s attempt works, then There you go. Maori seats are gone. I think if the right gets their way, then there will be some change to the system. But I actually don't think it'll work. You're trying to coordinate a whole bunch of people. And I think what Harry Moby's doing is shooting his side in the foot. He's given Hipkins a wonderful opening. And he's come in and said, oh, it's all right. It's foreign money. We earn all our money overseas. That's worse. So, no, he's given Hipkins an opening. Just sit down.
00:09:14
Speaker 1: Because I think you've hit the nail on the head, Matt. The biggest problem is trying to coordinate that many vultures. They will collapse the National Party vote because it'll only half work.
00:09:26
Speaker 3: Lord, guys.
00:09:27
Speaker 4: You can tell the voters of Epsom one thing, but try to tell the whole National Party voting quarter to do something different or the whole Maori voting quarter to do something different. Ridiculous.
00:09:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, such a good point.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: Guys, thank you very much. It's a delight to have you both. You feel okay?
00:09:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm good.
00:09:38
Speaker 1: He's fine.
00:09:38
Speaker 3: He survived it.
00:09:39
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Phil O'Reilly, Matt Ball. A huddle this evening.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy-Allen Drive, listen live to Newstalk ZB from 4pm weekdays or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
