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Hey, I'm Eric, and I'm here for you Today, I have the opportunity to sit down with somebody whose journey is a great example of what can happen when you finally decide to pursue the thing that's been calling you for years.
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My guest today is Vivek a filmmaker, writer, and creative who grew up in Houston, attended the United States Air Force Academy, and served in the Air Force for five and a half years.
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But while Vivek was following a traditional career path, filmmaking was always somewhere in the background.
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From making films in high school to running a filmmaking club at the Academy, that creative side of him never really went away.
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Eventually, Vivek made the decision to step away from the expected path and give himself the opportunity to explore filmmaking and figure out what truly fulfilled him, and that journey has already produced some incredible work.
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We're gonna talk about his short film, Paper Ghost, a powerful micro short exploring anxiety, grief, anger, helplessness, and what it means to let go when life doesn't give us the closure we want.
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We'll also talk about anxiety, growing up Indian American in Houston, the importance of representation, acting and directing, the challenges of building a career as an independent filmmaker, and the lessons he's learned along the way.
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And perhaps most importantly, we'll talk about something that applies far beyond filmmaking: What happens when you stop waiting for the perfect moment and simply decide to go do the thing you've always wanted to do?
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I truly hope you enjoy my talk with Vivek
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I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I went to, the Air Force Academy.
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I went into the Air Force and I served for five and a half years.
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and I always kinda knew that I had this interest and passion in filmmaking because I made a lot of stuff in high school, I, in high school I did a lot of filmmaking projects in, at the academy itself I ran, like, a filmmaking club, and I kind of thought in my head that that was the path I would go if I wasn't being reasonable, quote, unquote.
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and so I served for five and a half years and I kind of had this struggle for what am I doing, am I doing something that's meaningful and, like, that's truly me?
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and so I had this, like, kinda, I kind of went on this, after, serving in the Air Force and doing a job outside of the Air Force for a year I had this moment where I was like,"I'm gonna take a bit of a gap year.
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I'm gonna explore some different things, try to get back into filmmaking." And so that's kinda what I've been doing over the past year, and trying to, be creative and, like, kind of be true to myself, as to figure out what makes me feel fulfilled.
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and this is kinda, like, one of those projects that, came out of that.
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I, I'm always so fascinated with people that serve in the military and then kind of do a very creative, unique pivot because I have family in the military.
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I have, friends and, I've known multiple people that have served.
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Being in Texas myself, it's a huge hub for that, and they normally stay in the military.
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They follow that career path, and you pivoted completely.
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did- with filmmaking, was that something that was a part of you growing up when you were younger?
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Is that something that you just naturally adapted to?
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So it's something I discovered in high school actually.
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when I was a freshman-- When I was like a sophomore in high school, I went on this trip to Canada and, was a sustainability conference that was sponsored by the school.
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It was with the International Baccalaureate program, we went to this conference, and one of the final projects during this conference was that everybody had to do like a presentation.
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I remember I saw this presentation where there was this poem said basically,"We will inevitably destroy the world." and then they reversed the poem, and then it's like,"Destroying is not our nature.
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We can save the world." and I thought it was so cool, and then they did this visual where they were like tearing things up, and they were pulling grass out of the ground, and they were kind of being very destructive.
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And then they reversed it.
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They reversed the video, and it kind of looked like they had powers, and they were like creating things with their hands, and I thought it looked so cool.
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when I got back to Houston, one of the first things I did was I tried to recreate that video.
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I struggled a lot, with just learning the software, the tools, and, figuring out how to do it.
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But when I was done with it, after like a week of just banging my head on the computer, I had something that looked really awesome, and it felt really fulfilling and I just kind of fell in love with it right then and there, just the whole video-making process and the editing and just being creative and learning the tools.
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you're not just filmmaking, you're acting as well, right?
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do you have formal acting training?
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I would say, I'm not acting so much.
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right now it's not really the focus.
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But yes, I've done a little.
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I've done a lot of improv, and I've done some, acting training at, the school for, method acting, Lee Strasberg.
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Lee
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Oh
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I did a Meisner class as well, for a little bit.
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but I kind of have decided that I want to focus on the filmmaking aspects just because it's so much to do to try and think about acting and directing at the same time.
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and I kinda have a passion more so for creating the stories than I think I do than actually living in the moment of it.
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Yeah.
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do you feel there's a benefit to kind of being an actor in that moment?
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Does it give you a different understanding of what an actor needs from a director and help you understand, them a little more to push your story to where it needs to be as a filmmaker?
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all the acting training I did, it really helped with, So right now I'm working on another project, called Kana, which is a lot more, it is a lot more performance heavy and it's a very, it's, like, it's dialogue heavy, or it's not dialogue heavy, but it, it, it's like the performances are...
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I had to really adjust.
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Long story short, the acting training helps me not, like, tell actors be more sad, be more happy, right?
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It helps me, give them objectives to...
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And also to be, like, not so strict on, like, say I want a subtle eye movement or something, to allow the actors to kind of be creative and to kind of live the experiences themselves.
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and to also be open to where that takes the movie
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Some of the projects that you've been involved in and, some of the things that you've done, it seems to have a reoccurring interest in, identity, relationships, and, a connection with people and the interactions.
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why are those themes so important to you?
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Because they're big themes in my life, right?
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Like, I've been exploring who am I?
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So my, the film th- so that I am finishing up right now, it's, ties to, like, Indian identity, and that was a big thing for me growing up because I was Indian and I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I grew up kind of like in a very affluent...
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I went to these, this very affluent elementary school, so naturally the demographics were very white.
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and so I've definitely, like, went through some times when I would, like, bring in Indian food and then people would kinda make fun of me, and then I'd be like,"Oh, I'm not Indian, I promise." so, so like I like changed, I changed my habits to fit in.
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it's something interesting as well because back then I felt like it wasn't as cool to be, very cool to be Indian.
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It was, it was like seen as lame, and now, it's very cool to be Indian it seems like.
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Seems like there's a lot more representation and a lot more, stuff going on to represent our culture.
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and you know, I wanna be a part of that, to be able to, help people be comfortable with their own identities.
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And this goes a little bit beyond Paper Ghosts.
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It goes more into this project and future projects.
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So to that point, when you're watching one of your own films afterward, what are you looking for?
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Is it the performances, the cinematography, the emotional reactions, whether the story worked for you?
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'cause when you're finished, obviously you're proud, you're feeling this, mix of emotions, but then after that timeframe, I'm sure there's something you're just like,"Oh, I would've loved to have done this different," or,"Maybe I could've changed this or that."
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it's actually the opposite for me, when I just finish, I'm really critical of it and I'm like,"Oh, we need to do this, this, this, and this differently." And at some point I have to be like,"Okay, I need to move on to the next thing," or, just wrap it up.
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then, three or four months later when I watch it and other people are watching it and appreciating it, I'm like,"Oh, yeah, it was really good actually."
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I mean, it's easy to be critical for yourself, right?
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But when you have a slew of people telling you this was amazing, I think it's, then you can pull back and say,"This is great." let's talk about Paper Ghosts.
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for someone who hasn't seen it yet, how would you describe the film?
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Paper Ghost is a moment.
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it's like, I call it a micro short, because it's about the anxiety you feel when you're letting go of something.
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And it's meant to be able to be abstracted and to like, hopefully somebody going through something could relate to it regardless of whether it's like the exact specific situation.
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and so in this exact specific situation, even when I was, kind of writing what I was gonna do, writing the screenplay, I used the photo of the girl.
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I say that, in my head I said she can either be somebody, an ex-wife, a wife that has died, or she can be like a wife that has cheated on him.
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obviously he needs to move on and, he's dealing with that anxiety of letting her go.
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you're dealing with some pretty heavy emotions, right, in Paper Ghost.
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Grief, panic, anger, helplessness, all of these, these human natures.
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Why do you feel like this particular story needed to be told?
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Because it's something that everyone goes through.
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Everyone, even if it's not a wife, everybody goes through these different transition points.
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For me especially, I've gone through a lot of transition points.
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has to, acknowledge that life changes, and it's really, really, really difficult.
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and when you let go of people, When you let go of things, and particularly if it's people, there is a sense that, at the end of it, it's unresolved, but you just keep going, and that's kind of what Paper Ghosts is about, and that's kind of what the ending about.
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I don't like to leave...
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So another thing about my films is I don't like to give a wrapped-up ending, you know?
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all of my films kind of leave you feeling like, oh, there's more, but that's also life, you know?
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Life never gives you a wrapped-up and tie
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there's something beautiful about that, right?
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Especially when you have such a array of emotions that you're trying to come together.
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People are obviously watching this looking for a finite solution, but when you mention that this is life, there's no proper ending to this, right?
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It is continuous, as you mentioned.
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there's something like oddly cathartic or interesting about trying to communicate these emotions in such a short amount of time, as you mentioned, like a micro short.
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How do you make audience feel something that deep when you only have that small time?
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I think it's, a lot of it is you really have to just get straight into the emotion.
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and, some of it is, like, with the pacing and the editing.
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Paper Ghost, like I initially planned it, it was, like, gonna be every second there's a cut in the beginning, and then we slow it down.
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and things get slower as we go towards the end.
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But if you can, like, do the pacing where it's like bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, you can really create that anxiety, early on
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did you find that was the biggest challenge of making Pepper Ghost, or was there something else altogether that was so difficult for you?
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I actually, yeah, trying to make sure that everything was...
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So I only did, everything filmed for Paper Ghost happened in two hours, and I shot it on the iPhone as well.
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Wow
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my iPhone overheated, so
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Okay, so it's a potential that it is like just the filming process itself was the hardest part
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Yeah, the filming process was probably the hardest part.
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I saw the movie in my head before it happened, you know?
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like I knew the ticking, I was gonna use the ticking sound for the pacing, before we started.
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And, just making sure that those clips look good together stacked right on top of each other.
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I think making sure I had enough footage there because I was only using like...
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So basically I had kind of alcove of a desk built into my apartment.
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and so I stuck all these newspaper clippings and, all the background stuff that you see in the film onto the wall.
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And so I knew I had to kind of keep, the view of the camera around where I had the background.
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So it gave me like a limited amount of angles, and I knew I had to like stay close up because if you go further out with the iPhone, that's when things start to look a little...
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so I think, the challenge was to get enough footage coverage to like cut it up and also to do it quickly.
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Luckily he wasn't like saying any lines, so it made it easier.
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It's not like I was adjusting microphones or anything.
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it was just like, right, write the letter now and really, like really try and, try and win her back, when you're writing this letter.
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And do it again, let's do it again, let's do it again, let's do it again from this angle." and it was just like bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.
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that brings up an even more interesting point because there's not many to any, words on their end.
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When you're directing something involving grief and intense emotion, how do you help an actor get to that place without really pushing them too far?
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And how do you convey it with little to no words?
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so one philosophy I have is less words is better always.
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Because I think you, watch TV shows now and they're like, well, the king has to go and, he has to be jealous and then he has to be angry.
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He's gonna be angry and he's gonna do all these..." What I'm trying to say is that in their dialogue, they literally say every single plot point and every single reason why everything's happening, and it takes me out of it.
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I've seen it often where you're like,"Oh, I know exactly where this is going." Perfect
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Yeah, thanks for telling me.
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Thanks for ruining the whole suspense of the movie.
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I like the idea of people, watching someone do something interesting and, then people being like,"Oh, why is he doing that?
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What is he doing?" So try and keep that in mind.
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I try and imagine what I would say if I was in that character's position and wanting whatever they wanted, right?
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So that's firstly the writing.
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And then going and talking to the actors, you really have to make sure that they understand, What exactly the stakes are.
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that they have some sort of personal experience that will give them a high enough stake, especially for grief.
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as far as protecting the actors, it's a good question.
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I don't I don't
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I don't protect them, no.
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I don't, have a process for protecting them, but I haven't had an issue yet,
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Yeah, that
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to be honest.
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you know, it's kind of like I'm not-- It is kind of the actor's process.
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Like, this is something that we talked a little bit about at Lee Strasberg, and at the Meisner classes that I was doing.
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So Mies- I think you know this, Meisner hates Lee Strasberg from my impressions.
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But, when I was at the Lee Strasberg, school, even they were saying like,"Well, you don't, well, you don't go into a place that's gonna make you feel unco- unstable, right?" so if they're doing the method acting, techniques to get to that place.
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If they're doing more of a Meisner...
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I don't think I've, I've really worked with anybody though really like solely relies on Lee Strasberg But, if they're doing Meisner, which is more common, then they're already, there's already in that training built in that you, that you put yourself in a place, where the circumstances are imagined.
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Like you don't pull from a real place in your heart.
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You pull from a real loved one, and then you imagine that something bad has happened to them.
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I think one of the fascinating things about short films is that the audience can walk away with a completely different interpretation than what maybe you intended.
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what do you hope audiences take away from Paper Ghost?
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I hope audiences feel seen when they s- I hope their deep anxieties feel seen, and that they feel that, any struggle that they've had, they can relate to, our main character, Zane the actor.
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In that they can, also relate to the, feeling of things being unresolved You know, that like you can let go, but it's still not quite over
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Paper Ghost isn't your only short, right?
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Yeah
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you've worked on other ones, and you've written Kana, right?
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I
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Do you...
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Yeah, yeah
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do you see those projects connected in any way?
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Yeah.
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So actually Kona is we're just wrapping up the final touches on it, and it's about to start its film festival
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Huge.
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Congratulations
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Yeah.
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so It's pretty exciting.
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but yes, they all relate.
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they're all kind of stepping stones, you know.
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I'm trying to build and build and build and bigger, to bigger things, bigger projects.
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but yes, Paper Ghost was the first, like quote-unquote"official short film" that I've done with the professional sound and the professional color and that I submitted to film festivals.
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and following that was Key Suspect.
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Key Suspect's a little bit lighter, a lot lighter, and it's more of a comedy, thriller kind of thing.
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and then there's, A Never Ending Beginning, kind of goes back into a little bit more of a serious note with some funny elements.
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So I kind of mix what I learned with Paper Ghost and what I learned with, Key Suspect to kind of create this, short film about, modern dating and going on a first date and having, with politics of the other person.
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Yeah.
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and it also kind of ends in this unresolved, this is kind of the way things are, ending.
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and is another dating relationship of what happens if your culture does not approve of your, significant other's culture.
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and also of has that same anxiety, to what, well, this is kind of how it is ending
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A- and correct me if I'm wrong but Kana was recognized as a semifinalist in the Nashville Film Festival screenwriting, right?
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Yeah, absolutely
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what does that kind of recognition mean to you as a filmmaker who's, like as you mentioned, you want to do more, you're building your body of work.
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What does that mean for you?
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That was very validating and very exciting to see that.
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my first, big film festival so that was really exciting, to see that.
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Because I worked really hard on the script.
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I did, like, 10 rewrites with 10 reads different people.
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I, brought in people who had worked on A Never-Ending Beginning in some capacity, mostly actors, and I'd have them read, the script loud.
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I'd be like,"Hey, so what'd you think of this?
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What'd you think of that?
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what would you change if you could change anything?" And all this feedback that I kept on, getting, and I was like, I was able to really shape it.
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I really worked hard to really shape it in a way that would resonate with people So it was a process to write that, and I'm really glad that it got some recognition from a really big name
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As it should.
00:21:56.667 --> 00:21:59.357
you put in a lot of hard work, good effort, and, it's amazing.
00:21:59.357 --> 00:22:00.218
I'm positive of it.
00:22:01.008 --> 00:22:08.137
So if we were to step away from the films for a second, what's been the hardest part of trying to build your career as a filmmaker?
00:22:08.178 --> 00:22:12.907
Taking, the actual effort and work in there, but just building your career as total
00:22:13.567 --> 00:22:18.147
there's a lot of, hurdles, that I've kind of seen.
00:22:18.518 --> 00:22:30.104
for one, it's You spend a lot of time working it and not necessarily any-- And it's kind of something that I have to drive.
00:22:30.153 --> 00:22:31.233
I drive independently.
00:22:31.233 --> 00:22:34.824
Like, if I don't do it, it's not gonna get done, kind of thing.
00:22:34.824 --> 00:22:41.763
So it's kind of like one of these things where it's like I go back to the question, is what I'm doing, it matter?
00:22:42.663 --> 00:22:54.413
and so, that's a question I ask myself a lot and, what really helps is to start seeing it get seen and to start seeing people appreciate it.
00:22:54.423 --> 00:22:58.683
And you don't really have that validation until it's over.
00:22:59.394 --> 00:23:07.324
And what helped a lot with that is that Key Suspect and Paper Ghost were really short, small projects, right?
00:23:07.324 --> 00:23:18.094
So, Paper Ghost, you know, I filmed it in two hours, probably did a week of editing, and then I sent it off to a color grader and to a sound designer, and maybe that was like a month or two process.
00:23:19.044 --> 00:23:21.384
then Suspect, same thing.
00:23:22.814 --> 00:23:27.493
And then I went on to Never Ending Beginning, which was a much bigger project.
00:23:28.394 --> 00:23:34.223
it was five minutes, so twice, two or three times the length of the other two films independently.
00:23:34.243 --> 00:23:59.423
And so maybe that took like about a month of planning, casting, and, then to the film date and location scouting because that was the first time I had like rented a place to actually film in, and I had to go like negotiate with people and be like,"You're gonna charge like X amount of money for this, real actual film studio.
00:23:59.463 --> 00:24:01.074
How about you give me like a tenth of that?
00:24:01.943 --> 00:24:10.564
You charge me like a tenth of that." And then, I get rejected by a bunch of people, and they look at me like I'm crazy or they don't answer.
00:24:11.354 --> 00:24:12.324
that was also hard.
00:24:12.683 --> 00:24:15.124
But you know, I finally found a really great place that I loved.
00:24:15.374 --> 00:24:20.763
I loved, filming, for A Never Ending Beginning in the cafe that we filmed in.
00:24:21.513 --> 00:24:31.634
And so The other big hurdle that kind of goes into does it matter, is, your collaborators, finding the right collaborators.
00:24:32.344 --> 00:24:34.423
Because there's a lot of folks who might say...
00:24:35.074 --> 00:24:39.913
A lot of folks, obviously they over-advertise themselves or they, don't show up.
00:24:40.094 --> 00:24:49.463
So, you really have to be careful about who you're working with and making sure that, are gonna give their best effort to your project.
00:24:49.884 --> 00:25:13.153
and sometimes you also have to kind of ask yourself,"Well, I can't necessarily afford, a professional, grade person, so have to choose somebody with like maybe is less skilled than I am, but has a really great attitude and really wants to do it." and then you just have to kind of hold their hands a little bit as they're working.
00:25:13.653 --> 00:25:15.884
Essentially building up the future is what you're doing
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:20.150
Yeah, building up the future, building up skill set.
00:25:20.259 --> 00:25:24.690
but also, you know, they're obviously holding the camera, so it gives you a little bit less to do.
00:25:25.349 --> 00:25:27.339
a little bit less to be responsible for.
00:25:27.829 --> 00:25:33.230
and so you can focus on the other things that are going on during that dynamic filming day
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:41.200
with that in mind, what's something'Cause obviously you're helping these people grow and learn, and maybe it's not all the time, right?
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.400
But you're bringing people in that you are doing that for.
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:47.859
What's something you wish someone had told you before you started making films?
00:25:48.632 --> 00:26:03.971
I would say, I would go back to my high school days and college days to answer that question rather than answering this first, short film because I think I was pretty well prepared when I did A Never Ending Beginning and when I did Kenna.
00:26:04.991 --> 00:26:09.392
you know,'cause I've done a lot of littler, smaller projects before.
00:26:09.781 --> 00:26:12.741
I would say firstly, don't start with a big project.
00:26:12.811 --> 00:26:15.372
Start with small, little projects.
00:26:15.872 --> 00:26:25.092
Know what it takes to make something that looks polished before you try and make a big hour-long thing that's polished.
00:26:25.642 --> 00:26:27.291
that way you're not, like...
00:26:27.632 --> 00:26:44.061
'Cause there's a lot that goes wrong, and it's very hard to, like, go from something in your head, to keeping in count of everything that's going on on film day, to making a polished film, if you've never done it before.
00:26:45.442 --> 00:26:52.751
So I think it's very manageable if you, start with, like, 20 seconds to a minute to two minute, little things.
00:26:53.872 --> 00:27:14.021
but I think the first and the hardest lessons that I learned were about sound and making sure you get good sound, and making sure that you have enough footage to, cut And watch through and have different angles, different cut-tos.
00:27:14.491 --> 00:27:15.301
and then...
00:27:15.721 --> 00:27:29.571
Oh, you know, some things I learned in the past is that there's a lot of magic you can do with like VFX object removal and, I'm also starting to learn that there's a lot of stuff you can do with denoising tools.
00:27:30.882 --> 00:27:31.201
yeah.
00:27:32.501 --> 00:27:35.092
the editing software is getting pretty powerful, so that's
00:27:35.266 --> 00:27:35.365
Good.
00:27:35.432 --> 00:27:35.932
I would say.
00:27:36.826 --> 00:27:39.546
Yeah, I'm finding that out on my own, and I'm just doing a little podcast.
00:27:39.556 --> 00:27:40.246
I'm like,"This is great.
00:27:40.705 --> 00:27:42.175
I can take beeps and everything out.
00:27:42.185 --> 00:27:43.326
This is awesome." but I'm no...
00:27:43.476 --> 00:27:45.076
Skill level nowhere near yours,
00:27:45.135 --> 00:27:46.336
Well, I don't do the sound stuff.
00:27:46.385 --> 00:27:52.455
I know vaguely that if I pull this wire down or this line down, it'll make my voice deeper.
00:27:52.536 --> 00:27:55.115
And then if I do this one, it'll make my voice high-pitched.
00:27:55.963 --> 00:27:56.294
See?
00:27:56.554 --> 00:27:57.844
You already got more than I do.
00:27:57.884 --> 00:27:59.223
I haven't even touched that.
00:27:59.223 --> 00:28:01.673
I'm like,"My voice can sound as terrible and nasally as possible.
00:28:01.673 --> 00:28:02.094
It's fine.
00:28:02.334 --> 00:28:03.534
I don't need to change a thing." Yeah.
00:28:04.054 --> 00:28:04.753
Too much work.
00:28:05.346 --> 00:28:05.875
Fair enough
00:28:07.253 --> 00:28:16.753
you had mentioned, and obviously you're an Indian American filmmaker, and you've talked about navigating your identity, belonging perceptions, being in Houston, growing up.
00:28:17.473 --> 00:28:23.874
do you think that filmmakers have, a responsibility to represent their culture or community?
00:28:23.903 --> 00:28:29.124
Or is it simply that filmmakers should just tell whatever stories they're personally drawn to?
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:36.799
I don't know that anyone has a responsibility to tell any specific story.
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.710
I think they should tell what they're drawn to.
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:47.009
like my goal is to eventually do a sci-fi planet-hopping Andor-type thing, you know?
00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:47.920
Oh, yes
00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:51.029
yeah, that would be pretty awesome.
00:28:51.130 --> 00:28:51.859
That'd be amazing.
00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:53.039
Yes.
00:28:53.903 --> 00:29:02.193
I do think that, it's easier to start somewhere that's personal, that, you have that, attachment to, that you know.
00:29:02.213 --> 00:29:04.403
Somewhere where you know, right?
00:29:05.304 --> 00:29:07.114
that you're familiar with, something that's more grounded.
00:29:07.124 --> 00:29:09.824
For me, it's easier to do stuff that's more grounded.
00:29:09.824 --> 00:29:19.064
You know, you don't have to deal with super big VFX budgets and whatever else, and green rooms and all that stuff, right?
00:29:19.064 --> 00:29:21.134
Like, Kisa Stack, What's it called?
00:29:21.134 --> 00:29:24.403
Kisa Stack, Paper Ghost, my, Kana,
00:29:25.104 --> 00:29:25.594
What's it called?
00:29:25.604 --> 00:29:26.003
Sorry.
00:29:27.923 --> 00:29:28.493
What's my thumb called?
00:29:29.124 --> 00:29:29.973
what did I name that thing?
00:29:30.933 --> 00:29:31.923
Please, please go on
00:29:32.203 --> 00:29:39.794
so actually it is, I started Paper Ghost, it was called The Letter when I started.
00:29:40.263 --> 00:29:51.173
and then as I, like, it wasn't until after I was done filming, and I think after the master file was done, that I was like, I should call it Paper Ghost." it's still called The Letter.
00:29:51.233 --> 00:29:53.864
Like, the folder on my computer is still called The Letter
00:29:55.074 --> 00:29:56.034
Wow.
00:29:56.153 --> 00:30:00.513
So just a last-minute change pushed the trajectory of the film somewhere else.
00:30:00.915 --> 00:30:01.435
Yeah
00:30:01.513 --> 00:30:05.894
paper doses, it's pretty intense as opposed to just a letter, right?
00:30:06.251 --> 00:30:07.231
I, yeah, absolutely
00:30:07.564 --> 00:30:08.193
that was incredible.
00:30:08.203 --> 00:30:09.213
Good call on your part
00:30:09.557 --> 00:30:09.847
Yeah.
00:30:09.867 --> 00:30:10.357
Thank you.
00:30:10.488 --> 00:30:11.097
I appreciate that.
00:30:11.478 --> 00:30:11.867
Stop it.
00:30:15.028 --> 00:30:18.317
No, that's literally 90% of my job is hyping you up, so I'm good with this.
00:30:19.478 --> 00:30:20.117
You deserve it.
00:30:20.587 --> 00:30:26.667
all the hard work, the effort you're putting into all of your creative works, it's incredible stuff, and everyone should see what you're doing.
00:30:26.718 --> 00:30:31.127
not out of an obligation, but out of a necessity for, basic human understanding.
00:30:31.147 --> 00:30:49.988
I think what you've done with Paper Ghost is, very relative to what the world needs to understand within themselves, You have to kind of fight yourself with these emotions daily in and out, the state of the world the way it is now, and to see this short film and kind of wrestle with yourself on the emotions of what it means to you.
00:30:50.167 --> 00:30:53.337
'Cause obviously I see it one way, you'll see it one way, someone else will see it another way.
00:30:53.667 --> 00:30:55.397
I think it's very important to have those things.
00:30:55.407 --> 00:31:06.288
So to have you continue creating stuff like this and everything that you've created beforehand, and of course Kana moving forward, I think it's paramount to what the world truly needs right now.
00:31:06.288 --> 00:31:12.928
so thank you for what you're doing, and I'm very happy you're continuing to do so with everything that you've been through in your life so far.
00:31:13.268 --> 00:31:28.557
and if you see, like, I don't know if you've seen Past Lives or Marriage Story, but those are very much like, bigger films that you watch them and they don't tell you what to think about it.
00:31:28.577 --> 00:31:31.357
They don't tell you what the moral of the story is.
00:31:31.708 --> 00:31:34.057
they're kind of films that, which I really love.
00:31:34.157 --> 00:31:37.758
it starts in one place, and then it ends kind of in the same place, right?
00:31:38.877 --> 00:31:40.728
Like, it's not like they get back together.
00:31:40.788 --> 00:31:44.367
they literally start and end in the same place a big argument
00:31:46.407 --> 00:31:51.077
And it comes to the point of like as you're watching the film, you see the things that happen through it.
00:31:51.087 --> 00:31:54.538
It's just as, to your point, starting at one place, ending at the same place.
00:31:55.238 --> 00:32:00.748
Some people that watched it didn't care for it because they felt it went nowhere, but I think that's the importance of it, right?
00:32:00.807 --> 00:32:03.367
That's like the main thing is to understand that that is life.
00:32:03.718 --> 00:32:12.988
You can go weeks and still be in the same situation thinking,"I've done nothing in this timeframe," or whether it be an argument, an emotional standpoint.
00:32:12.988 --> 00:32:20.897
I think it is very important to have those stories and, again, people like you who are pushing those stories to make people really think and consider how they feel in those moments.
00:32:21.486 --> 00:32:29.955
What is the meaning of those moments when you spend three weeks on something or a month or two months, and then it's kind of in the same position as when you started?
00:32:29.955 --> 00:32:32.066
Yeah.
00:32:32.134 --> 00:32:37.804
you've been working on one thing, you haven't touched it in two or three weeks, you come back to it and you're like,"Where did this passion go?
00:32:38.183 --> 00:32:41.104
Why, you know, I'm back, I'm still at the same spot.
00:32:41.124 --> 00:32:41.943
Nothing's changed.
00:32:41.943 --> 00:32:50.894
I've thought about it every day, and nothing's really come of it." And I think that's important for people to see something like that, especially in Paper Ghost, to sit there and say, there...
00:32:51.023 --> 00:32:51.723
This is life.
00:32:51.753 --> 00:32:57.413
It's resolute in many ways, and I can make different efforts to change that, or I can continue this path.
00:32:57.483 --> 00:32:58.213
It is what it is.
00:32:58.993 --> 00:33:02.634
Vivek, thank you so much for your time today.
00:33:02.653 --> 00:33:16.713
this has been eye-opening, it has been uplifting, it's been incredible, and I am, so thankful that you took the time to speak on your life, your work, and I really do look forward to people watching more of Paper Ghost.
00:33:16.814 --> 00:33:28.874
If somebody's finding you out now, just listening to the podcast, checking your work out, and maybe they're trying to get into filmmaking, acting, directing, whatever the case may be, what's something you want them to know?
00:33:29.094 --> 00:33:34.253
Something that you wanna leave people listening with that will resonate with them for the remainder of their lives
00:33:35.355 --> 00:33:42.246
The thing that I think people should realize is that, if you really wanna do something, just go do it.
00:33:42.355 --> 00:33:45.885
If you're trying to get into filmmaking, start small, but just go do it.
00:33:46.006 --> 00:33:55.546
Make some little clips and, figure out what you can do with the resources that you do have, and you can figure out how to get more resources later.
00:33:56.965 --> 00:34:09.646
a lot of these bigger cities, like if you're in Austin, if you're in New York, sure other big cities as well, they have programs that let you even get equipment for free or for near free.
00:34:10.016 --> 00:34:16.985
like Austin has, Austin Film Society, Producers Program.
00:34:17.835 --> 00:34:19.025
and so you can just...
00:34:19.235 --> 00:34:30.076
You literally have like a facility over there that, you can go and check out like Sony, the expensive Sony cameras, they have Canon cameras that, that, you know, you can shoot, like pretty...
00:34:30.076 --> 00:34:31.885
FX3, FX6, FX9.
00:34:32.655 --> 00:34:34.465
you can go check those out for free.
00:34:34.565 --> 00:34:37.715
and you have audio equipment and all that stuff.
00:34:39.096 --> 00:34:40.246
so you can get access to it.
00:34:40.496 --> 00:34:45.005
All you have to do is start and, the resources, you'll find them.
00:34:45.016 --> 00:34:50.885
You'll find people who have those resources, if you have a vision and you're out there trying to make stuff happen.
00:34:57.358 --> 00:35:04.768
I really enjoyed this conversation because while we talked a lot about filmmaking, I think there was something much bigger underneath all of it.
00:35:06.338 --> 00:35:12.137
There's a clear theme throughout Vivek's journey, and that sometimes you just have to start.
00:35:12.728 --> 00:35:14.117
You don't need the perfect equipment.
00:35:14.657 --> 00:35:15.777
You don't need all the answers.
00:35:16.557 --> 00:35:18.487
You don't need to know exactly where you're going to end up.
00:35:19.237 --> 00:35:23.007
You just have to take the first step and figure things out along the way.
00:35:24.467 --> 00:35:36.068
And I think that's something all of us can relate to, whether we're trying to make a movie, start a new career, pursue a dream, or simply make a change in our own lives.
00:35:37.188 --> 00:35:45.527
So Vivek, thank you again for taking the time to sit down with me, for sharing your story, and for giving us a look behind the scenes of your creative journey.
00:35:46.737 --> 00:35:51.818
And to everyone listening, make sure you check out Vivek's work, especially Paper Ghost.
00:35:52.398 --> 00:35:53.518
I'm a big fan of that one.
00:35:54.217 --> 00:35:56.168
And keep an eye out for what's coming next.
00:35:57.927 --> 00:36:01.788
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to listen even though I got a bit sore throat.
00:36:01.818 --> 00:36:02.378
Apologies.
00:36:02.427 --> 00:36:02.748
Ugh.
00:36:03.867 --> 00:36:06.018
I promise, next recording will be much better.
00:36:06.137 --> 00:36:06.668
Guaranteed.
00:36:07.507 --> 00:36:11.887
But again, thank you all so much for listening, and I look forward to hearing you in the next one.
00:00:05.464 --> 00:00:21.096
Hey, I'm Eric, and I'm here for you Today, I have the opportunity to sit down with somebody whose journey is a great example of what can happen when you finally decide to pursue the thing that's been calling you for years.
00:00:22.056 --> 00:00:32.106
My guest today is Vivek a filmmaker, writer, and creative who grew up in Houston, attended the United States Air Force Academy, and served in the Air Force for five and a half years.
00:00:33.006 --> 00:00:38.725
But while Vivek was following a traditional career path, filmmaking was always somewhere in the background.
00:00:39.456 --> 00:00:47.076
From making films in high school to running a filmmaking club at the Academy, that creative side of him never really went away.
00:00:48.036 --> 00:01:00.875
Eventually, Vivek made the decision to step away from the expected path and give himself the opportunity to explore filmmaking and figure out what truly fulfilled him, and that journey has already produced some incredible work.
00:01:01.845 --> 00:01:14.266
We're gonna talk about his short film, Paper Ghost, a powerful micro short exploring anxiety, grief, anger, helplessness, and what it means to let go when life doesn't give us the closure we want.
00:01:15.445 --> 00:01:29.546
We'll also talk about anxiety, growing up Indian American in Houston, the importance of representation, acting and directing, the challenges of building a career as an independent filmmaker, and the lessons he's learned along the way.
00:01:30.445 --> 00:01:44.906
And perhaps most importantly, we'll talk about something that applies far beyond filmmaking: What happens when you stop waiting for the perfect moment and simply decide to go do the thing you've always wanted to do?
00:01:46.376 --> 00:01:50.096
I truly hope you enjoy my talk with Vivek
00:01:52.171 --> 00:01:57.742
I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I went to, the Air Force Academy.
00:01:57.742 --> 00:02:00.371
I went into the Air Force and I served for five and a half years.
00:02:02.052 --> 00:02:22.012
and I always kinda knew that I had this interest and passion in filmmaking because I made a lot of stuff in high school, I, in high school I did a lot of filmmaking projects in, at the academy itself I ran, like, a filmmaking club, and I kind of thought in my head that that was the path I would go if I wasn't being reasonable, quote, unquote.
00:02:22.391 --> 00:02:31.171
and so I served for five and a half years and I kind of had this struggle for what am I doing, am I doing something that's meaningful and, like, that's truly me?
00:02:32.241 --> 00:02:43.361
and so I had this, like, kinda, I kind of went on this, after, serving in the Air Force and doing a job outside of the Air Force for a year I had this moment where I was like,"I'm gonna take a bit of a gap year.
00:02:43.361 --> 00:02:58.222
I'm gonna explore some different things, try to get back into filmmaking." And so that's kinda what I've been doing over the past year, and trying to, be creative and, like, kind of be true to myself, as to figure out what makes me feel fulfilled.
00:02:59.592 --> 00:03:03.812
and this is kinda, like, one of those projects that, came out of that.
00:03:04.860 --> 00:03:13.729
I, I'm always so fascinated with people that serve in the military and then kind of do a very creative, unique pivot because I have family in the military.
00:03:13.729 --> 00:03:16.469
I have, friends and, I've known multiple people that have served.
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:22.750
Being in Texas myself, it's a huge hub for that, and they normally stay in the military.
00:03:22.750 --> 00:03:25.340
They follow that career path, and you pivoted completely.
00:03:25.870 --> 00:03:29.750
did- with filmmaking, was that something that was a part of you growing up when you were younger?
00:03:29.750 --> 00:03:32.169
Is that something that you just naturally adapted to?
00:03:33.012 --> 00:03:35.872
So it's something I discovered in high school actually.
00:03:36.282 --> 00:03:45.901
when I was a freshman-- When I was like a sophomore in high school, I went on this trip to Canada and, was a sustainability conference that was sponsored by the school.
00:03:45.901 --> 00:03:56.532
It was with the International Baccalaureate program, we went to this conference, and one of the final projects during this conference was that everybody had to do like a presentation.
00:03:57.211 --> 00:04:13.799
I remember I saw this presentation where there was this poem said basically,"We will inevitably destroy the world." and then they reversed the poem, and then it's like,"Destroying is not our nature.
00:04:14.368 --> 00:04:30.019
We can save the world." and I thought it was so cool, and then they did this visual where they were like tearing things up, and they were pulling grass out of the ground, and they were kind of being very destructive.
00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:31.759
And then they reversed it.
00:04:32.619 --> 00:04:40.649
They reversed the video, and it kind of looked like they had powers, and they were like creating things with their hands, and I thought it looked so cool.
00:04:41.059 --> 00:04:46.338
when I got back to Houston, one of the first things I did was I tried to recreate that video.
00:04:47.338 --> 00:04:53.538
I struggled a lot, with just learning the software, the tools, and, figuring out how to do it.
00:04:53.798 --> 00:05:13.369
But when I was done with it, after like a week of just banging my head on the computer, I had something that looked really awesome, and it felt really fulfilling and I just kind of fell in love with it right then and there, just the whole video-making process and the editing and just being creative and learning the tools.
00:05:14.583 --> 00:05:17.492
you're not just filmmaking, you're acting as well, right?
00:05:17.572 --> 00:05:19.142
do you have formal acting training?
00:05:20.377 --> 00:05:23.476
I would say, I'm not acting so much.
00:05:23.896 --> 00:05:25.627
right now it's not really the focus.
00:05:26.076 --> 00:05:27.607
But yes, I've done a little.
00:05:27.637 --> 00:05:34.317
I've done a lot of improv, and I've done some, acting training at, the school for, method acting, Lee Strasberg.
00:05:34.937 --> 00:05:35.117
Lee
00:05:35.380 --> 00:05:35.750
Oh
00:05:35.786 --> 00:05:39.166
I did a Meisner class as well, for a little bit.
00:05:39.557 --> 00:05:50.706
but I kind of have decided that I want to focus on the filmmaking aspects just because it's so much to do to try and think about acting and directing at the same time.
00:05:52.607 --> 00:05:58.266
and I kinda have a passion more so for creating the stories than I think I do than actually living in the moment of it.
00:05:59.206 --> 00:05:59.576
Yeah.
00:05:59.807 --> 00:06:04.466
do you feel there's a benefit to kind of being an actor in that moment?
00:06:04.507 --> 00:06:12.786
Does it give you a different understanding of what an actor needs from a director and help you understand, them a little more to push your story to where it needs to be as a filmmaker?
00:06:13.440 --> 00:06:32.120
all the acting training I did, it really helped with, So right now I'm working on another project, called Kana, which is a lot more, it is a lot more performance heavy and it's a very, it's, like, it's dialogue heavy, or it's not dialogue heavy, but it, it, it's like the performances are...
00:06:32.471 --> 00:06:34.771
I had to really adjust.
00:06:34.790 --> 00:06:43.600
Long story short, the acting training helps me not, like, tell actors be more sad, be more happy, right?
00:06:43.641 --> 00:06:46.321
It helps me, give them objectives to...
00:06:46.341 --> 00:06:59.521
And also to be, like, not so strict on, like, say I want a subtle eye movement or something, to allow the actors to kind of be creative and to kind of live the experiences themselves.
00:07:00.341 --> 00:07:04.461
and to also be open to where that takes the movie
00:07:05.278 --> 00:07:14.978
Some of the projects that you've been involved in and, some of the things that you've done, it seems to have a reoccurring interest in, identity, relationships, and, a connection with people and the interactions.
00:07:15.329 --> 00:07:16.858
why are those themes so important to you?
00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.499
Because they're big themes in my life, right?
00:07:20.848 --> 00:07:22.728
Like, I've been exploring who am I?
00:07:22.769 --> 00:07:38.709
So my, the film th- so that I am finishing up right now, it's, ties to, like, Indian identity, and that was a big thing for me growing up because I was Indian and I grew up in Houston, Texas, and I grew up kind of like in a very affluent...
00:07:39.418 --> 00:07:45.959
I went to these, this very affluent elementary school, so naturally the demographics were very white.
00:07:47.538 --> 00:08:05.988
and so I've definitely, like, went through some times when I would, like, bring in Indian food and then people would kinda make fun of me, and then I'd be like,"Oh, I'm not Indian, I promise." so, so like I like changed, I changed my habits to fit in.
00:08:07.478 --> 00:08:18.399
it's something interesting as well because back then I felt like it wasn't as cool to be, very cool to be Indian.
00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:25.189
It was, it was like seen as lame, and now, it's very cool to be Indian it seems like.
00:08:25.629 --> 00:08:33.288
Seems like there's a lot more representation and a lot more, stuff going on to represent our culture.
00:08:33.908 --> 00:08:42.908
and you know, I wanna be a part of that, to be able to, help people be comfortable with their own identities.
00:08:43.599 --> 00:08:45.489
And this goes a little bit beyond Paper Ghosts.
00:08:45.489 --> 00:08:48.869
It goes more into this project and future projects.
00:08:50.273 --> 00:08:55.163
So to that point, when you're watching one of your own films afterward, what are you looking for?
00:08:55.163 --> 00:09:00.243
Is it the performances, the cinematography, the emotional reactions, whether the story worked for you?
00:09:00.846 --> 00:09:10.787
'cause when you're finished, obviously you're proud, you're feeling this, mix of emotions, but then after that timeframe, I'm sure there's something you're just like,"Oh, I would've loved to have done this different," or,"Maybe I could've changed this or that."
00:09:11.537 --> 00:09:26.746
it's actually the opposite for me, when I just finish, I'm really critical of it and I'm like,"Oh, we need to do this, this, this, and this differently." And at some point I have to be like,"Okay, I need to move on to the next thing," or, just wrap it up.
00:09:27.547 --> 00:09:34.817
then, three or four months later when I watch it and other people are watching it and appreciating it, I'm like,"Oh, yeah, it was really good actually."
00:09:37.301 --> 00:09:39.410
I mean, it's easy to be critical for yourself, right?
00:09:39.681 --> 00:09:46.961
But when you have a slew of people telling you this was amazing, I think it's, then you can pull back and say,"This is great." let's talk about Paper Ghosts.
00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:49.971
for someone who hasn't seen it yet, how would you describe the film?
00:09:50.697 --> 00:09:52.096
Paper Ghost is a moment.
00:09:52.197 --> 00:10:00.846
it's like, I call it a micro short, because it's about the anxiety you feel when you're letting go of something.
00:10:01.206 --> 00:10:11.557
And it's meant to be able to be abstracted and to like, hopefully somebody going through something could relate to it regardless of whether it's like the exact specific situation.
00:10:11.986 --> 00:10:24.506
and so in this exact specific situation, even when I was, kind of writing what I was gonna do, writing the screenplay, I used the photo of the girl.
00:10:26.017 --> 00:10:37.466
I say that, in my head I said she can either be somebody, an ex-wife, a wife that has died, or she can be like a wife that has cheated on him.
00:10:38.506 --> 00:10:43.297
obviously he needs to move on and, he's dealing with that anxiety of letting her go.
00:10:44.336 --> 00:10:47.437
you're dealing with some pretty heavy emotions, right, in Paper Ghost.
00:10:47.437 --> 00:10:51.687
Grief, panic, anger, helplessness, all of these, these human natures.
00:10:51.996 --> 00:10:55.517
Why do you feel like this particular story needed to be told?
00:10:57.527 --> 00:10:59.697
Because it's something that everyone goes through.
00:10:59.697 --> 00:11:08.466
Everyone, even if it's not a wife, everybody goes through these different transition points.
00:11:08.476 --> 00:11:11.506
For me especially, I've gone through a lot of transition points.
00:11:12.706 --> 00:11:17.167
has to, acknowledge that life changes, and it's really, really, really difficult.
00:11:17.657 --> 00:11:35.326
and when you let go of people, When you let go of things, and particularly if it's people, there is a sense that, at the end of it, it's unresolved, but you just keep going, and that's kind of what Paper Ghosts is about, and that's kind of what the ending about.
00:11:35.456 --> 00:11:36.356
I don't like to leave...
00:11:36.386 --> 00:11:42.226
So another thing about my films is I don't like to give a wrapped-up ending, you know?
00:11:43.506 --> 00:11:50.267
all of my films kind of leave you feeling like, oh, there's more, but that's also life, you know?
00:11:50.407 --> 00:11:53.326
Life never gives you a wrapped-up and tie
00:11:54.971 --> 00:11:56.650
there's something beautiful about that, right?
00:11:56.660 --> 00:12:00.941
Especially when you have such a array of emotions that you're trying to come together.
00:12:00.941 --> 00:12:08.341
People are obviously watching this looking for a finite solution, but when you mention that this is life, there's no proper ending to this, right?
00:12:08.341 --> 00:12:09.681
It is continuous, as you mentioned.
00:12:10.520 --> 00:12:19.921
there's something like oddly cathartic or interesting about trying to communicate these emotions in such a short amount of time, as you mentioned, like a micro short.
00:12:20.791 --> 00:12:27.130
How do you make audience feel something that deep when you only have that small time?
00:12:28.804 --> 00:12:34.674
I think it's, a lot of it is you really have to just get straight into the emotion.
00:12:36.195 --> 00:12:41.705
and, some of it is, like, with the pacing and the editing.
00:12:42.095 --> 00:12:48.924
Paper Ghost, like I initially planned it, it was, like, gonna be every second there's a cut in the beginning, and then we slow it down.
00:12:49.375 --> 00:12:52.054
and things get slower as we go towards the end.
00:12:52.404 --> 00:13:00.054
But if you can, like, do the pacing where it's like bop, bop, bop, bop, bop, you can really create that anxiety, early on
00:13:00.471 --> 00:13:06.032
did you find that was the biggest challenge of making Pepper Ghost, or was there something else altogether that was so difficult for you?
00:13:06.735 --> 00:13:11.816
I actually, yeah, trying to make sure that everything was...
00:13:12.015 --> 00:13:17.166
So I only did, everything filmed for Paper Ghost happened in two hours, and I shot it on the iPhone as well.
00:13:18.186 --> 00:13:18.956
Wow
00:13:19.375 --> 00:13:21.745
my iPhone overheated, so
00:13:25.905 --> 00:13:30.316
Okay, so it's a potential that it is like just the filming process itself was the hardest part
00:13:31.135 --> 00:13:33.796
Yeah, the filming process was probably the hardest part.
00:13:33.846 --> 00:13:36.706
I saw the movie in my head before it happened, you know?
00:13:37.135 --> 00:13:41.836
like I knew the ticking, I was gonna use the ticking sound for the pacing, before we started.
00:13:41.865 --> 00:13:48.015
And, just making sure that those clips look good together stacked right on top of each other.
00:13:48.586 --> 00:13:53.645
I think making sure I had enough footage there because I was only using like...
00:13:53.666 --> 00:13:59.285
So basically I had kind of alcove of a desk built into my apartment.
00:14:00.255 --> 00:14:09.206
and so I stuck all these newspaper clippings and, all the background stuff that you see in the film onto the wall.
00:14:09.296 --> 00:14:17.905
And so I knew I had to kind of keep, the view of the camera around where I had the background.
00:14:18.285 --> 00:14:26.546
So it gave me like a limited amount of angles, and I knew I had to like stay close up because if you go further out with the iPhone, that's when things start to look a little...
00:14:27.865 --> 00:14:33.655
so I think, the challenge was to get enough footage coverage to like cut it up and also to do it quickly.
00:14:33.806 --> 00:14:37.316
Luckily he wasn't like saying any lines, so it made it easier.
00:14:37.316 --> 00:14:39.586
It's not like I was adjusting microphones or anything.
00:14:40.265 --> 00:14:48.046
it was just like, right, write the letter now and really, like really try and, try and win her back, when you're writing this letter.
00:14:48.426 --> 00:14:54.546
And do it again, let's do it again, let's do it again, let's do it again from this angle." and it was just like bop, bop, bop, bop, bop.
00:14:55.857 --> 00:15:02.128
that brings up an even more interesting point because there's not many to any, words on their end.
00:15:02.628 --> 00:15:12.168
When you're directing something involving grief and intense emotion, how do you help an actor get to that place without really pushing them too far?
00:15:12.447 --> 00:15:15.248
And how do you convey it with little to no words?
00:15:16.683 --> 00:15:20.764
so one philosophy I have is less words is better always.
00:15:21.144 --> 00:15:33.053
Because I think you, watch TV shows now and they're like, well, the king has to go and, he has to be jealous and then he has to be angry.
00:15:33.063 --> 00:15:43.864
He's gonna be angry and he's gonna do all these..." What I'm trying to say is that in their dialogue, they literally say every single plot point and every single reason why everything's happening, and it takes me out of it.
00:15:44.173 --> 00:15:47.653
I've seen it often where you're like,"Oh, I know exactly where this is going." Perfect
00:15:48.453 --> 00:15:49.894
Yeah, thanks for telling me.
00:15:49.903 --> 00:15:52.193
Thanks for ruining the whole suspense of the movie.
00:15:52.649 --> 00:16:00.620
I like the idea of people, watching someone do something interesting and, then people being like,"Oh, why is he doing that?
00:16:00.620 --> 00:16:04.210
What is he doing?" So try and keep that in mind.
00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:11.679
I try and imagine what I would say if I was in that character's position and wanting whatever they wanted, right?
00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:13.080
So that's firstly the writing.
00:16:13.470 --> 00:16:21.669
And then going and talking to the actors, you really have to make sure that they understand, What exactly the stakes are.
00:16:22.090 --> 00:16:27.789
that they have some sort of personal experience that will give them a high enough stake, especially for grief.
00:16:28.659 --> 00:16:31.970
as far as protecting the actors, it's a good question.
00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:36.278
I don't I don't
00:16:36.303 --> 00:16:37.714
I don't protect them, no.
00:16:39.418 --> 00:16:43.538
I don't, have a process for protecting them, but I haven't had an issue yet,
00:16:43.837 --> 00:16:44.368
Yeah, that
00:16:45.975 --> 00:16:46.865
to be honest.
00:16:46.916 --> 00:16:50.755
you know, it's kind of like I'm not-- It is kind of the actor's process.
00:16:50.755 --> 00:16:56.806
Like, this is something that we talked a little bit about at Lee Strasberg, and at the Meisner classes that I was doing.
00:16:57.556 --> 00:17:03.985
So Mies- I think you know this, Meisner hates Lee Strasberg from my impressions.
00:17:05.566 --> 00:17:24.695
But, when I was at the Lee Strasberg, school, even they were saying like,"Well, you don't, well, you don't go into a place that's gonna make you feel unco- unstable, right?" so if they're doing the method acting, techniques to get to that place.
00:17:24.806 --> 00:17:27.006
If they're doing more of a Meisner...
00:17:28.006 --> 00:17:49.135
I don't think I've, I've really worked with anybody though really like solely relies on Lee Strasberg But, if they're doing Meisner, which is more common, then they're already, there's already in that training built in that you, that you put yourself in a place, where the circumstances are imagined.
00:17:49.205 --> 00:17:52.506
Like you don't pull from a real place in your heart.
00:17:52.546 --> 00:17:57.445
You pull from a real loved one, and then you imagine that something bad has happened to them.
00:18:00.516 --> 00:18:09.415
I think one of the fascinating things about short films is that the audience can walk away with a completely different interpretation than what maybe you intended.
00:18:09.915 --> 00:18:12.865
what do you hope audiences take away from Paper Ghost?
00:18:14.071 --> 00:18:30.942
I hope audiences feel seen when they s- I hope their deep anxieties feel seen, and that they feel that, any struggle that they've had, they can relate to, our main character, Zane the actor.
00:18:31.571 --> 00:18:47.347
In that they can, also relate to the, feeling of things being unresolved You know, that like you can let go, but it's still not quite over
00:18:50.566 --> 00:18:52.715
Paper Ghost isn't your only short, right?
00:18:53.069 --> 00:18:53.400
Yeah
00:18:53.826 --> 00:18:57.036
you've worked on other ones, and you've written Kana, right?
00:18:57.740 --> 00:18:57.849
I
00:18:57.986 --> 00:18:58.276
Do you...
00:18:58.599 --> 00:18:59.259
Yeah, yeah
00:18:59.635 --> 00:19:02.086
do you see those projects connected in any way?
00:19:02.637 --> 00:19:03.038
Yeah.
00:19:03.057 --> 00:19:09.678
So actually Kona is we're just wrapping up the final touches on it, and it's about to start its film festival
00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:10.539
Huge.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:11.509
Congratulations
00:19:11.728 --> 00:19:12.157
Yeah.
00:19:13.077 --> 00:19:14.127
so It's pretty exciting.
00:19:14.538 --> 00:19:16.897
but yes, they all relate.
00:19:17.597 --> 00:19:20.218
they're all kind of stepping stones, you know.
00:19:20.428 --> 00:19:24.657
I'm trying to build and build and build and bigger, to bigger things, bigger projects.
00:19:25.208 --> 00:19:35.347
but yes, Paper Ghost was the first, like quote-unquote"official short film" that I've done with the professional sound and the professional color and that I submitted to film festivals.
00:19:35.978 --> 00:19:39.188
and following that was Key Suspect.
00:19:39.988 --> 00:19:46.248
Key Suspect's a little bit lighter, a lot lighter, and it's more of a comedy, thriller kind of thing.
00:19:46.897 --> 00:19:55.288
and then there's, A Never Ending Beginning, kind of goes back into a little bit more of a serious note with some funny elements.
00:19:55.778 --> 00:20:11.938
So I kind of mix what I learned with Paper Ghost and what I learned with, Key Suspect to kind of create this, short film about, modern dating and going on a first date and having, with politics of the other person.
00:20:12.137 --> 00:20:12.508
Yeah.
00:20:13.458 --> 00:20:21.278
and it also kind of ends in this unresolved, this is kind of the way things are, ending.
00:20:22.137 --> 00:20:31.468
and is another dating relationship of what happens if your culture does not approve of your, significant other's culture.
00:20:32.917 --> 00:20:41.798
and also of has that same anxiety, to what, well, this is kind of how it is ending
00:20:43.367 --> 00:20:50.218
A- and correct me if I'm wrong but Kana was recognized as a semifinalist in the Nashville Film Festival screenwriting, right?
00:20:50.705 --> 00:20:51.766
Yeah, absolutely
00:20:52.617 --> 00:20:58.758
what does that kind of recognition mean to you as a filmmaker who's, like as you mentioned, you want to do more, you're building your body of work.
00:20:58.768 --> 00:20:59.958
What does that mean for you?
00:21:00.445 --> 00:21:03.046
That was very validating and very exciting to see that.
00:21:03.486 --> 00:21:10.395
my first, big film festival so that was really exciting, to see that.
00:21:12.576 --> 00:21:14.486
Because I worked really hard on the script.
00:21:14.536 --> 00:21:19.625
I did, like, 10 rewrites with 10 reads different people.
00:21:19.625 --> 00:21:28.915
I, brought in people who had worked on A Never-Ending Beginning in some capacity, mostly actors, and I'd have them read, the script loud.
00:21:29.246 --> 00:21:30.756
I'd be like,"Hey, so what'd you think of this?
00:21:30.776 --> 00:21:31.596
What'd you think of that?
00:21:32.006 --> 00:21:42.236
what would you change if you could change anything?" And all this feedback that I kept on, getting, and I was like, I was able to really shape it.
00:21:42.556 --> 00:21:54.884
I really worked hard to really shape it in a way that would resonate with people So it was a process to write that, and I'm really glad that it got some recognition from a really big name
00:21:55.847 --> 00:21:56.478
As it should.
00:21:56.667 --> 00:21:59.357
you put in a lot of hard work, good effort, and, it's amazing.
00:21:59.357 --> 00:22:00.218
I'm positive of it.
00:22:01.008 --> 00:22:08.137
So if we were to step away from the films for a second, what's been the hardest part of trying to build your career as a filmmaker?
00:22:08.178 --> 00:22:12.907
Taking, the actual effort and work in there, but just building your career as total
00:22:13.567 --> 00:22:18.147
there's a lot of, hurdles, that I've kind of seen.
00:22:18.518 --> 00:22:30.104
for one, it's You spend a lot of time working it and not necessarily any-- And it's kind of something that I have to drive.
00:22:30.153 --> 00:22:31.233
I drive independently.
00:22:31.233 --> 00:22:34.824
Like, if I don't do it, it's not gonna get done, kind of thing.
00:22:34.824 --> 00:22:41.763
So it's kind of like one of these things where it's like I go back to the question, is what I'm doing, it matter?
00:22:42.663 --> 00:22:54.413
and so, that's a question I ask myself a lot and, what really helps is to start seeing it get seen and to start seeing people appreciate it.
00:22:54.423 --> 00:22:58.683
And you don't really have that validation until it's over.
00:22:59.394 --> 00:23:07.324
And what helped a lot with that is that Key Suspect and Paper Ghost were really short, small projects, right?
00:23:07.324 --> 00:23:18.094
So, Paper Ghost, you know, I filmed it in two hours, probably did a week of editing, and then I sent it off to a color grader and to a sound designer, and maybe that was like a month or two process.
00:23:19.044 --> 00:23:21.384
then Suspect, same thing.
00:23:22.814 --> 00:23:27.493
And then I went on to Never Ending Beginning, which was a much bigger project.
00:23:28.394 --> 00:23:34.223
it was five minutes, so twice, two or three times the length of the other two films independently.
00:23:34.243 --> 00:23:59.423
And so maybe that took like about a month of planning, casting, and, then to the film date and location scouting because that was the first time I had like rented a place to actually film in, and I had to go like negotiate with people and be like,"You're gonna charge like X amount of money for this, real actual film studio.
00:23:59.463 --> 00:24:01.074
How about you give me like a tenth of that?
00:24:01.943 --> 00:24:10.564
You charge me like a tenth of that." And then, I get rejected by a bunch of people, and they look at me like I'm crazy or they don't answer.
00:24:11.354 --> 00:24:12.324
that was also hard.
00:24:12.683 --> 00:24:15.124
But you know, I finally found a really great place that I loved.
00:24:15.374 --> 00:24:20.763
I loved, filming, for A Never Ending Beginning in the cafe that we filmed in.
00:24:21.513 --> 00:24:31.634
And so The other big hurdle that kind of goes into does it matter, is, your collaborators, finding the right collaborators.
00:24:32.344 --> 00:24:34.423
Because there's a lot of folks who might say...
00:24:35.074 --> 00:24:39.913
A lot of folks, obviously they over-advertise themselves or they, don't show up.
00:24:40.094 --> 00:24:49.463
So, you really have to be careful about who you're working with and making sure that, are gonna give their best effort to your project.
00:24:49.884 --> 00:25:13.153
and sometimes you also have to kind of ask yourself,"Well, I can't necessarily afford, a professional, grade person, so have to choose somebody with like maybe is less skilled than I am, but has a really great attitude and really wants to do it." and then you just have to kind of hold their hands a little bit as they're working.
00:25:13.653 --> 00:25:15.884
Essentially building up the future is what you're doing
00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:20.150
Yeah, building up the future, building up skill set.
00:25:20.259 --> 00:25:24.690
but also, you know, they're obviously holding the camera, so it gives you a little bit less to do.
00:25:25.349 --> 00:25:27.339
a little bit less to be responsible for.
00:25:27.829 --> 00:25:33.230
and so you can focus on the other things that are going on during that dynamic filming day
00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:41.200
with that in mind, what's something'Cause obviously you're helping these people grow and learn, and maybe it's not all the time, right?
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:43.400
But you're bringing people in that you are doing that for.
00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:47.859
What's something you wish someone had told you before you started making films?
00:25:48.632 --> 00:26:03.971
I would say, I would go back to my high school days and college days to answer that question rather than answering this first, short film because I think I was pretty well prepared when I did A Never Ending Beginning and when I did Kenna.
00:26:04.991 --> 00:26:09.392
you know,'cause I've done a lot of littler, smaller projects before.
00:26:09.781 --> 00:26:12.741
I would say firstly, don't start with a big project.
00:26:12.811 --> 00:26:15.372
Start with small, little projects.
00:26:15.872 --> 00:26:25.092
Know what it takes to make something that looks polished before you try and make a big hour-long thing that's polished.
00:26:25.642 --> 00:26:27.291
that way you're not, like...
00:26:27.632 --> 00:26:44.061
'Cause there's a lot that goes wrong, and it's very hard to, like, go from something in your head, to keeping in count of everything that's going on on film day, to making a polished film, if you've never done it before.
00:26:45.442 --> 00:26:52.751
So I think it's very manageable if you, start with, like, 20 seconds to a minute to two minute, little things.
00:26:53.872 --> 00:27:14.021
but I think the first and the hardest lessons that I learned were about sound and making sure you get good sound, and making sure that you have enough footage to, cut And watch through and have different angles, different cut-tos.
00:27:14.491 --> 00:27:15.301
and then...
00:27:15.721 --> 00:27:29.571
Oh, you know, some things I learned in the past is that there's a lot of magic you can do with like VFX object removal and, I'm also starting to learn that there's a lot of stuff you can do with denoising tools.
00:27:30.882 --> 00:27:31.201
yeah.
00:27:32.501 --> 00:27:35.092
the editing software is getting pretty powerful, so that's
00:27:35.266 --> 00:27:35.365
Good.
00:27:35.432 --> 00:27:35.932
I would say.
00:27:36.826 --> 00:27:39.546
Yeah, I'm finding that out on my own, and I'm just doing a little podcast.
00:27:39.556 --> 00:27:40.246
I'm like,"This is great.
00:27:40.705 --> 00:27:42.175
I can take beeps and everything out.
00:27:42.185 --> 00:27:43.326
This is awesome." but I'm no...
00:27:43.476 --> 00:27:45.076
Skill level nowhere near yours,
00:27:45.135 --> 00:27:46.336
Well, I don't do the sound stuff.
00:27:46.385 --> 00:27:52.455
I know vaguely that if I pull this wire down or this line down, it'll make my voice deeper.
00:27:52.536 --> 00:27:55.115
And then if I do this one, it'll make my voice high-pitched.
00:27:55.963 --> 00:27:56.294
See?
00:27:56.554 --> 00:27:57.844
You already got more than I do.
00:27:57.884 --> 00:27:59.223
I haven't even touched that.
00:27:59.223 --> 00:28:01.673
I'm like,"My voice can sound as terrible and nasally as possible.
00:28:01.673 --> 00:28:02.094
It's fine.
00:28:02.334 --> 00:28:03.534
I don't need to change a thing." Yeah.
00:28:04.054 --> 00:28:04.753
Too much work.
00:28:05.346 --> 00:28:05.875
Fair enough
00:28:07.253 --> 00:28:16.753
you had mentioned, and obviously you're an Indian American filmmaker, and you've talked about navigating your identity, belonging perceptions, being in Houston, growing up.
00:28:17.473 --> 00:28:23.874
do you think that filmmakers have, a responsibility to represent their culture or community?
00:28:23.903 --> 00:28:29.124
Or is it simply that filmmakers should just tell whatever stories they're personally drawn to?
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:36.799
I don't know that anyone has a responsibility to tell any specific story.
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:39.710
I think they should tell what they're drawn to.
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:47.009
like my goal is to eventually do a sci-fi planet-hopping Andor-type thing, you know?
00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:47.920
Oh, yes
00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:51.029
yeah, that would be pretty awesome.
00:28:51.130 --> 00:28:51.859
That'd be amazing.
00:28:52.269 --> 00:28:53.039
Yes.
00:28:53.903 --> 00:29:02.193
I do think that, it's easier to start somewhere that's personal, that, you have that, attachment to, that you know.
00:29:02.213 --> 00:29:04.403
Somewhere where you know, right?
00:29:05.304 --> 00:29:07.114
that you're familiar with, something that's more grounded.
00:29:07.124 --> 00:29:09.824
For me, it's easier to do stuff that's more grounded.
00:29:09.824 --> 00:29:19.064
You know, you don't have to deal with super big VFX budgets and whatever else, and green rooms and all that stuff, right?
00:29:19.064 --> 00:29:21.134
Like, Kisa Stack, What's it called?
00:29:21.134 --> 00:29:24.403
Kisa Stack, Paper Ghost, my, Kana,
00:29:25.104 --> 00:29:25.594
What's it called?
00:29:25.604 --> 00:29:26.003
Sorry.
00:29:27.923 --> 00:29:28.493
What's my thumb called?
00:29:29.124 --> 00:29:29.973
what did I name that thing?
00:29:30.933 --> 00:29:31.923
Please, please go on
00:29:32.203 --> 00:29:39.794
so actually it is, I started Paper Ghost, it was called The Letter when I started.
00:29:40.263 --> 00:29:51.173
and then as I, like, it wasn't until after I was done filming, and I think after the master file was done, that I was like, I should call it Paper Ghost." it's still called The Letter.
00:29:51.233 --> 00:29:53.864
Like, the folder on my computer is still called The Letter
00:29:55.074 --> 00:29:56.034
Wow.
00:29:56.153 --> 00:30:00.513
So just a last-minute change pushed the trajectory of the film somewhere else.
00:30:00.915 --> 00:30:01.435
Yeah
00:30:01.513 --> 00:30:05.894
paper doses, it's pretty intense as opposed to just a letter, right?
00:30:06.251 --> 00:30:07.231
I, yeah, absolutely
00:30:07.564 --> 00:30:08.193
that was incredible.
00:30:08.203 --> 00:30:09.213
Good call on your part
00:30:09.557 --> 00:30:09.847
Yeah.
00:30:09.867 --> 00:30:10.357
Thank you.
00:30:10.488 --> 00:30:11.097
I appreciate that.
00:30:11.478 --> 00:30:11.867
Stop it.
00:30:15.028 --> 00:30:18.317
No, that's literally 90% of my job is hyping you up, so I'm good with this.
00:30:19.478 --> 00:30:20.117
You deserve it.
00:30:20.587 --> 00:30:26.667
all the hard work, the effort you're putting into all of your creative works, it's incredible stuff, and everyone should see what you're doing.
00:30:26.718 --> 00:30:31.127
not out of an obligation, but out of a necessity for, basic human understanding.
00:30:31.147 --> 00:30:49.988
I think what you've done with Paper Ghost is, very relative to what the world needs to understand within themselves, You have to kind of fight yourself with these emotions daily in and out, the state of the world the way it is now, and to see this short film and kind of wrestle with yourself on the emotions of what it means to you.
00:30:50.167 --> 00:30:53.337
'Cause obviously I see it one way, you'll see it one way, someone else will see it another way.
00:30:53.667 --> 00:30:55.397
I think it's very important to have those things.
00:30:55.407 --> 00:31:06.288
So to have you continue creating stuff like this and everything that you've created beforehand, and of course Kana moving forward, I think it's paramount to what the world truly needs right now.
00:31:06.288 --> 00:31:12.928
so thank you for what you're doing, and I'm very happy you're continuing to do so with everything that you've been through in your life so far.
00:31:13.268 --> 00:31:28.557
and if you see, like, I don't know if you've seen Past Lives or Marriage Story, but those are very much like, bigger films that you watch them and they don't tell you what to think about it.
00:31:28.577 --> 00:31:31.357
They don't tell you what the moral of the story is.
00:31:31.708 --> 00:31:34.057
they're kind of films that, which I really love.
00:31:34.157 --> 00:31:37.758
it starts in one place, and then it ends kind of in the same place, right?
00:31:38.877 --> 00:31:40.728
Like, it's not like they get back together.
00:31:40.788 --> 00:31:44.367
they literally start and end in the same place a big argument
00:31:46.407 --> 00:31:51.077
And it comes to the point of like as you're watching the film, you see the things that happen through it.
00:31:51.087 --> 00:31:54.538
It's just as, to your point, starting at one place, ending at the same place.
00:31:55.238 --> 00:32:00.748
Some people that watched it didn't care for it because they felt it went nowhere, but I think that's the importance of it, right?
00:32:00.807 --> 00:32:03.367
That's like the main thing is to understand that that is life.
00:32:03.718 --> 00:32:12.988
You can go weeks and still be in the same situation thinking,"I've done nothing in this timeframe," or whether it be an argument, an emotional standpoint.
00:32:12.988 --> 00:32:20.897
I think it is very important to have those stories and, again, people like you who are pushing those stories to make people really think and consider how they feel in those moments.
00:32:21.486 --> 00:32:29.955
What is the meaning of those moments when you spend three weeks on something or a month or two months, and then it's kind of in the same position as when you started?
00:32:29.955 --> 00:32:32.066
Yeah.
00:32:32.134 --> 00:32:37.804
you've been working on one thing, you haven't touched it in two or three weeks, you come back to it and you're like,"Where did this passion go?
00:32:38.183 --> 00:32:41.104
Why, you know, I'm back, I'm still at the same spot.
00:32:41.124 --> 00:32:41.943
Nothing's changed.
00:32:41.943 --> 00:32:50.894
I've thought about it every day, and nothing's really come of it." And I think that's important for people to see something like that, especially in Paper Ghost, to sit there and say, there...
00:32:51.023 --> 00:32:51.723
This is life.
00:32:51.753 --> 00:32:57.413
It's resolute in many ways, and I can make different efforts to change that, or I can continue this path.
00:32:57.483 --> 00:32:58.213
It is what it is.
00:32:58.993 --> 00:33:02.634
Vivek, thank you so much for your time today.
00:33:02.653 --> 00:33:16.713
this has been eye-opening, it has been uplifting, it's been incredible, and I am, so thankful that you took the time to speak on your life, your work, and I really do look forward to people watching more of Paper Ghost.
00:33:16.814 --> 00:33:28.874
If somebody's finding you out now, just listening to the podcast, checking your work out, and maybe they're trying to get into filmmaking, acting, directing, whatever the case may be, what's something you want them to know?
00:33:29.094 --> 00:33:34.253
Something that you wanna leave people listening with that will resonate with them for the remainder of their lives
00:33:35.355 --> 00:33:42.246
The thing that I think people should realize is that, if you really wanna do something, just go do it.
00:33:42.355 --> 00:33:45.885
If you're trying to get into filmmaking, start small, but just go do it.
00:33:46.006 --> 00:33:55.546
Make some little clips and, figure out what you can do with the resources that you do have, and you can figure out how to get more resources later.
00:33:56.965 --> 00:34:09.646
a lot of these bigger cities, like if you're in Austin, if you're in New York, sure other big cities as well, they have programs that let you even get equipment for free or for near free.
00:34:10.016 --> 00:34:16.985
like Austin has, Austin Film Society, Producers Program.
00:34:17.835 --> 00:34:19.025
and so you can just...
00:34:19.235 --> 00:34:30.076
You literally have like a facility over there that, you can go and check out like Sony, the expensive Sony cameras, they have Canon cameras that, that, you know, you can shoot, like pretty...
00:34:30.076 --> 00:34:31.885
FX3, FX6, FX9.
00:34:32.655 --> 00:34:34.465
you can go check those out for free.
00:34:34.565 --> 00:34:37.715
and you have audio equipment and all that stuff.
00:34:39.096 --> 00:34:40.246
so you can get access to it.
00:34:40.496 --> 00:34:45.005
All you have to do is start and, the resources, you'll find them.
00:34:45.016 --> 00:34:50.885
You'll find people who have those resources, if you have a vision and you're out there trying to make stuff happen.
00:34:57.358 --> 00:35:04.768
I really enjoyed this conversation because while we talked a lot about filmmaking, I think there was something much bigger underneath all of it.
00:35:06.338 --> 00:35:12.137
There's a clear theme throughout Vivek's journey, and that sometimes you just have to start.
00:35:12.728 --> 00:35:14.117
You don't need the perfect equipment.
00:35:14.657 --> 00:35:15.777
You don't need all the answers.
00:35:16.557 --> 00:35:18.487
You don't need to know exactly where you're going to end up.
00:35:19.237 --> 00:35:23.007
You just have to take the first step and figure things out along the way.
00:35:24.467 --> 00:35:36.068
And I think that's something all of us can relate to, whether we're trying to make a movie, start a new career, pursue a dream, or simply make a change in our own lives.
00:35:37.188 --> 00:35:45.527
So Vivek, thank you again for taking the time to sit down with me, for sharing your story, and for giving us a look behind the scenes of your creative journey.
00:35:46.737 --> 00:35:51.818
And to everyone listening, make sure you check out Vivek's work, especially Paper Ghost.
00:35:52.398 --> 00:35:53.518
I'm a big fan of that one.
00:35:54.217 --> 00:35:56.168
And keep an eye out for what's coming next.
00:35:57.927 --> 00:36:01.788
I really appreciate you guys taking the time to listen even though I got a bit sore throat.
00:36:01.818 --> 00:36:02.378
Apologies.
00:36:02.427 --> 00:36:02.748
Ugh.
00:36:03.867 --> 00:36:06.018
I promise, next recording will be much better.
00:36:06.137 --> 00:36:06.668
Guaranteed.
00:36:07.507 --> 00:36:11.887
But again, thank you all so much for listening, and I look forward to hearing you in the next one.
