Recognizing the Hidden Struggles of Inattentive ADHD w/Cynthia Hammer

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Welcome to Hacking Your ADHD. I'm your host, William Kerb,
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and I have ADHD. On this podcast, I dig into
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the tools, tactics, and best practices to help you work
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with your ADHD brain. Hey team, this week I'm talking
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with the founder of the Inattentive ADHD Coalition and author
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of Living with Inattentive ADHD, Climbing the Circular Staircase of
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Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, Cynthia Hammer. In our conversation today,
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we discuss Cynthia's journey with late diagnosis of inattentive ADHD
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and critical lessons that she's learned along the way. We
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also explore the challenges of recognizing ADHD, dispel some common myths,
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and emphasize the importance of early diagnosis. From overcoming critical
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self-talk to self-publishing her memoir, Cynthia shares valuable insight on
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living with ADHD and creating a brighter future for those
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of us in the neurodivergent community. If you'd like to
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follow along on the show notes page, you can find
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that at hackingyouradhd.com slash 153. All right, keep on listening
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to find out how we can make our way up
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the circular staircase. To get started here, could you give
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me a little quick introduction about yourself and let me
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know what we're here to discuss?
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My name is Cynthia Hammer. I guess I should disclose
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my age, but I'm almost 80. In one week, I'll
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turn 80. And when I was 49 years old, I
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got diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. Shortly after that, I started
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a nonprofit called ADD Resources because when I got diagnosed,
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I thought I was the only adult. in the U.S.
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who knew they had ADHD. That turned out not to
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be true. There were a few others, but I was
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near the beginning. So I wanted to help other adults
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learn about their ADHD. That's why I started that nonprofit.
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And I ran it for 15 years. But during COVID,
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I decided to write a book. And in doing that,
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I wanted to get back and learn about ADHD. And
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that's when I found out that the children with the
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inattentive type were still being underdiagnosed. And the adults with
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the inattentive type were being misdiagnosed with depression or anxiety.
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And according to Dr. Dotson, they often delayed their diagnosis
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by six years by pursuing the depression or anxiety. So
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beyond not getting diagnosed as children, even when they pursue
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help as an adult, they're still not getting properly diagnosed.
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So in March of 2021, I decided to start a
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new nonprofit and it's called the Inattentive ADHD Coalition. And
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our mission was that children with inattentive ADHD would be
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diagnosed by age eight And adults would be readily and
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correctly diagnosed when they sought help. So we existed for
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maybe two and a half years now without a lot
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of direction. We had this mission, but the way I
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was handling it is just put out information as often
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as possible about inattentive ADHD. Try to contact school counselors,
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school social workers. Put out information about inattentive ADHD. And
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we recently had someone join our board who is very
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knowledgeable and very helpful. We're working through a book called Traction.
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And instead of having such a broad focus, we're narrowing
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it down. And we're really excited about our new focus.
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We might even have to change our name. But our
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new focus is all children should be screened for ADHD
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before they end the second grade. And screening should be
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recommended for the parents. any time a child is diagnosed
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with ADHD. Those two things are our new focus. It
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gives me chills to think about that that would happen,
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but I'm sure you know the rationale that we're finding
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out first, which we always knew that ADHD is pretty common.
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It's the most common neurobiological order of childhood. And the
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second thing we've learned from Dr. Barkley's research and others
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is that we're at risk for a lot of problems
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in our lives if we're undiagnosed. Earlier deaths, alcoholism, drug abuse,
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low income, poor academic achievement. It's just a lot of
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reasons that this condition needs to be discovered in children
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as early as possible.
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Yeah, I can see there's a lot there. And this
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is just making me think of like, yeah, I remember
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taking like hearing tests when I was in school and
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having something similar to help identify conditions which go largely
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unrecognized because the inattentive side of ADHD isn't the disruptive
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side that's causing problems for people typically. It's causing problems
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for yourself, but fewer problems for authority figures.
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Right. And what Dr. Oren Mason said is that, well,
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we know that children with ADHD on average are diagnosed
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by age seven, but they're only talking about the ones
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that get diagnosed. And those are the hyperactive ones. And
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what Dr. Oren Mason says is the teachers, when the
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school year starts, they're kind of picking out the children
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that are having problems. And the quiet child that's sitting
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there daydreaming is not picked up. So he was advising
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those teachers to be on the alert. And what our
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organization is trying to do is gather together the kind
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of behaviors that people should be looking for. Because our
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belief is it's not that you can't see it. It's
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that we haven't been looking for it. And that if
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you know what to look for, you're going to see it.
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Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm remembering
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that inattentive is also a more common condition in girls
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who have also been overlooked for ADHD symptoms for a
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long time as well.
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I think it's true, but I don't know it's true.
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We don't have research to say that. I've read some
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places they think there are boys and men that have
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the inattentive type as much as the women. I know
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there are men with inattentive type. I got to interview
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24 of them. But I know there are women with
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the combined type. Mm-hmm. And that's what I interviewed 25
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women with combined type because I wondered, how do they
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differ from the women with the inattentive type? The first
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thing that really surprised me is that they went undiagnosed too.
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And even though they had hyperactivity because of cultural norms,
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they suppressed it. They said, one girl told me she
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bit the inside of her cheek to keep herself being still.
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to get up and sharpen the pencil when I was
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restless or to ask to go to the bathroom. They
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learned to moderate their physical hyperactivity so that it was
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more socially acceptable. But our feeling now is the only
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children that are really getting diagnosed is the pool of
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children who are physically hyperactive and disruptive in the classroom.
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And beyond that, you're very lucky if you got diagnosed.
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Absolutely. Because if you're not causing problems, they're not looking
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to do stuff. Having gone through talking with my children's
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schools about IEPs and stuff, they're like, if they're not disruptive,
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we're not going to be doing much of anything for you.
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So you're saying they don't really care about the child
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being successful?
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Not particularly. That has not been my experience at all.
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Well, the two discouraging parts we've heard, separate from what
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you're saying, is that school districts are reluctant to identify
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children with possible ADHD because it's going to cost them
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more money. Mm-hmm. And so we first thought, well, let's
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educate teachers so they can recognize it more. But there's
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this pressure on them not to recognize it. So then
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we thought we need to work with the doctors, get
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them to screen the children. And someone told us recently
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that doctors don't want to do it either because they
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lack the knowledge. Yeah. And that's a problem back to
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medical schools where they don't have this in their curriculum
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or psychiatry schools where we're told they only have one hour.
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on ADHD when it's such a common neurodivergent condition?
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Yeah, there's an amazing lack of information too that is
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associated with the diagnosis. One of the more interesting pieces
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I found when doing research on ADHD was looking a
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lot into executive dysfunction and realizing that That isn't included
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anywhere in ADHD diagnosis. And yet it is one of
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the things that is most commonly referred to as a
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problem because when you look at the symptoms of executive dysfunction,
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you look at ADHD, it's like a circle in a
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Venn diagram.
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And Dr. Barkley, that is what he's saying now is
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that we're starting to understand that ADHD is really the
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problems with executive function. And they taught that the school
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could relate to that more. They would understand that the
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child needs to get skills in their executive function to
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be better in school. And the other part he mentioned
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was the emotional dysregulation that is common in children with ADHD.
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Yeah.
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The knowledge is evolving, but the DSM isn't keeping up.
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I understand. They want to be very conservative in how
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they're changing things because.
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You don't want to change back again.
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Unless we have really definitive evidence of a certain thing,
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changing the DSM just leads to confusion because we still
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have so many people that use the term ADD, even
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though mid-80s is when that left the DSM.
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Well, when I got diagnosed, it was called ADD. And
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I have to go through my script sometime to change
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it all to ADHD, even though I didn't say that.
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I said ADD just because that's how my brain learned it,
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I guess.
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I was doing another thing and I found the reference
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to hyperkinesthesia, which was previous iteration of ADD.
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Well, then there was a minimal brain dysfunction before that.
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Which is often interesting because people are like, oh, ADHD
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was made up at a certain point. And you're like, no,
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it was just called something different.
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First, I wanted to go back and say something that
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I was surprised when you were saying people misunderstand ADHD.
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So the women that I interviewed, a lot of them
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only discovered their ADHD recently. And although we are kind
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of critical of TikTok and everyone being a charlatan trying
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to market something, at least a third of the women
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I interviewed learned about their ADHD or got educated about
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it from TikTok and Instagram. And the surprising thing, some
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of them said they had heard of ADHD but their
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concept only was the hyperactive child. And by only having
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that concept, it prevented them from ever seeking a diagnosis.
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So that's another downside of having it so widely misunderstood
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is it's preventing people from being able to recognize that
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this might be a condition I have.
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Absolutely. I mean, and you look at where do people
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want people to learn about ADHD? if not the social
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media platforms. They're not going to be reading textbooks and
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things about ADHD. And pop culture is going to give
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them the worst idea of what it is.
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That's what I'm concluding, is that you need to have
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it on TikTok or Instagram. Or if you're doing a podcast,
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what I've been told is some people listen to it
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at double speed. That's the only way they can listen
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to podcasts. Have you heard that?
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I don't listen to most of my stuff at double speed,
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but I do listen to it at like one and
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a half to 1.25 a lot of the time.
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Yeah.
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I'll like start something up. I'm like, wow, what is
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up with their intro music? Oh, I'm listening to it
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this way faster than it's supposed to be.
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I see. Yeah.
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That and the other cue I get that I'm listening
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to things too fast is when people laugh does not
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translate well to faster speeds.
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Ah, makes it higher or something?
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Yeah, it makes it higher, like little chipmunky laughs. And
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you're like, oh, I remember I sent a friend a
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video that had been sped up. And then they're like, man,
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I can't watch that going that fast. And I'm like, oh,
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I didn't realize.
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So I want to give a shout out that Dr.
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Halliwell has a lot of TikTok short things. I've made
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a friend who is a psychiatrist trained in Stanford. He
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has both autism and ADHD, and he is starting on TikTok.
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He has his first one up, and his name is Dr. Choi, MD. Awesome.
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I'll have to look it up.
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I want to encourage people to find the reliable sources
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on TikTok. I think it can be helpful, and it's
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probably a good thing for people with ADHD, but be careful.
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who you're listening to.
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Yeah, it's absolutely imperative to question any information we're getting
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because some of it's really not reliable. I was surprised
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at the amount of good information I've seen on TikTok.
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I've certainly seen a fair share of bad information, but
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a lot of being like, hey, this is what executive
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dysfunction is. These are silly things that people with ADHD do.
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That's fine to be like, okay, yeah, I do weird
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sway walk while I'm walking through places rather than walking straight.
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I see, yeah. I saw a meme the other day
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that I just want to save, and it says, I'm
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a master in partial art.
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Yeah, we should also talk a little bit about your
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book that's coming out.
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Yeah, it came out on August 29th. And I was
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told three different times it was coming out. It was
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coming out in March. No, it's coming out in May. No,
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it came out in August. So I was frustrated telling
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people it was coming out because to me, being honest
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is really important. So I said it was embarrassing for
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me that it wasn't coming out when it should. But
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the name of the book is Living with Inattentive ADHD,
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Climbing the Circular Staircase of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. It's
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a memoir about my life, but it also is a
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self-help book because I improved my life both before and
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after I knew my diagnosis. But I didn't have coaching.
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I didn't have therapy. It was things I did. learned
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and read and did for myself. And when Dr. Ferron
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read the manuscript, he suggested I include information about ADHD
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at the end of each chapter. So I embellished it
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with the myths about ADHD and providing the corrective information
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for a lot of the myths that are out there.
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What were some of the myths that you found really
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interesting there?
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Some of the myths are bad parenting.
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Mm-hmm.
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Medication is dangerous or it should be a last resort.
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Only hyperactive little white boys get diagnosed. You can't be
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smart if you have ADHD. You know, you can't have
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a college degree if you have ADHD.
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Yeah, there are some definitely things where people are like, yeah,
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you're successful. You can't have ADHD. And it's like, what?
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Well, even people say when they went to get diagnosed.
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If you said I'm in graduate school, they right away
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said you can't have ADHD. And someone else I interviewed,
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Alan Brown, he said when he went to the doctor,
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the doctor said ADHD doesn't exist. ADD doesn't exist. And
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he told Alan to go do work on crossword puzzles.
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Oh, that's.
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That's helpful. Yeah.
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Oh, yeah. Crossword.
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That's.
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Thanks. I'm cured. I was looking at the high capacity
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programs for schools now and what they were describing as
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who excels best. And I was just like, there are
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so many neurodivergent traits in this list of what a
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high capacity student is. And high capacity is like the
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new gifted program.
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Yeah, I was going to say it's a new term
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for the old thing.
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And it's just something where you go, oh, there are
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a lot of gifted students now. who have ADHD, but
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they often get left behind in normal classrooms because they're
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not being challenged enough. And this isn't to say that
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everyone with ADHD is automatically very smart. It's just they have...
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I find people with ADHD tend to, when they... are
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put in a learning environment where they are stimulated, they
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do very well.
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What I agree with is what Dr. Barkley said is
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that the intelligence is just on a normal curve and
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the ADHD is a separate thing. The range of intelligence
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is like it is for everyone. Yeah. And the ADHD
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is a separate layer. And we know only about 20%
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of adults from research have been diagnosed with ADHD. So
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there's a lot of people out there who have ADHD,
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they might be in the prisons that have ADHD undiagnosed.
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So what I'm theorizing is that the 20% are the
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ones who were more academically gifted or more intelligent because
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they're the ones who figured it out. And so we
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have a skewed sample when we think people with ADD
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are really intelligent because we're looking at the ones that
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got diagnosed.
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The only point I was trying to make is that
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when you put people with ADHD in the right environment,
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they excel.
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Yes.
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Regardless, just because when they're in the wrong environment, it's
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the opposite effect where everything is harder and you do
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have a lot of bad outcomes.
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Right. Well, if you get into areas where you have
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choices and you can pursue your interests, then you're going
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to shine. And probably the gifted program allows for more
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of that. And that's what I think the neurodivergent movement
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is about, is creating environments that are more inclusive so
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children can demonstrate their knowledge in different ways and show
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that they are smart in different ways than the cookie
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cutter ways that we've been expected to do in the past.
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Yeah, it's certainly something where Having that diagnosis is very
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helpful to tell us what we should be doing moving forward,
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what kind of options we should be looking for. Right.
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That's back to why we want children to be diagnosed early.
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So many people, these 25 women I interviewed, I went
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and asked them the 18 symptoms of ADHD. And a
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lot of them had all the symptoms most of their life.
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Then they got diagnosed. And I asked them, some of
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them were diagnosed for a couple of years, some of
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them for many years. I asked them, how many of
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these symptoms do you have now? Some of them had
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all the same symptoms. There were just a few that
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were less. But the biggest difference for them is they
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now knew what they were dealing with and they were
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less judgmental. That's what made a big difference for a
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lot of them.
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The funny thing I always come back to is when
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people are like, we don't want to give someone a label.
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And I'm like, they're going to have a label. It's
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just whether or not it's something they can do anything about.
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Yeah, I read that online. That's another thing I often
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talk about is the labels your child will get is lazy, inconsiderate, procrastinator,
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not concerned, not living up to their potential. Are those
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better labels than saying she has a different brain wiring
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that we're able to help in new ways because we know?
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Because otherwise you're labeled with just character flaws, which sure,
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you could work on. But that's all about just trying harder,
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which is, in my experience, a really poor method of
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getting things done. Just trying harder does not typically get
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me better results.
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I wondered if I could talk a little bit about
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the journey I took in writing the book, because maybe
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you have people that are interested in writing something. And
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I have to say, it's not easy. Yeah. After I
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wrote the manuscript and decided I wanted to try to
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get it published, I submitted it to 50 places. trying
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to keep track. And of all those, I think I
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heard back from five and they were all rejections. And
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during COVID, and maybe it continues to be that way,
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but it became much easier to apply to places because
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you could do it all online through your email. Before that,
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you'd have to Xerox everything. It's a proposal. It might
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be like 20 pages long, talking about the book and
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the market potential, all this stuff. I was just about
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ready to give up and self-publish when someone called me.
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But once you give it to a publisher, and I
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00:20:32.730 --> 00:20:36.670
didn't read the contract very well, of the price on
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the book, I get about 10%. That's what the author gets.
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And for the book I wrote, all the profits are
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going to the nonprofit organization. Between signing the contract and
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the book actually get published, it was almost two years.
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I'm just letting that out there. And if someone were
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to do it again, I would say if you have
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your own market, if you know you're going to have
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a readership, I don't know if you achieve a lot
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by having a publisher. You lose a lot of the
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revenue by having the publisher.
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Yeah, publishers are great for some things, but not for others.
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From what I understand, they can open up some doors
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that self-publishing wouldn't open up. But if you're not going
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on a book tour or anything, that's also not going
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to be something you need.
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I don't know. Maybe different publishers do different things. And
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I think it depends on how much the publisher, like
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now there's a woman online. If she has a huge,
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huge following, the publisher comes to them. They want to
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publish a book of someone who has a huge following
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because they know they have a ready market and they
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will promote that person. But the other way around, most publishers,
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you're still on your own to promote your book. Oh, wow.
388
00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.119
You can't count on them to be doing much for me.
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The publisher that I work with, they send out a
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blast email to like 2000 places, you know, a press release. Well,
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maybe they paid for those resources where they send the
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00:22:05.529 --> 00:22:10.869
press release. From them, I have gotten exactly two things
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00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:14.970
to do. The rest are things I found on my own.
394
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And I'll be giving an author presentation. What's curious for
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00:22:20.410 --> 00:22:24.549
me now, interrupting myself, but the places that I'm speaking,
396
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like I'm going to be on a live event with
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Facebook tomorrow. The person responded to the press release from
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00:22:31.609 --> 00:22:37.460
the publisher because she herself has inattentive ADHD. I'm going
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to be giving an author presentation at the UW bookstore
400
00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:49.519
October 23rd. And that person has inattentive ADHD. You have ADHD.
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00:22:50.460 --> 00:22:53.500
I think we need to create a sister and brotherhood
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where we're helping each other because there's a need to
403
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get good information out about ADHD. And that's part of
404
00:23:01.579 --> 00:23:03.460
what your commitment is. Yeah.
405
00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:06.660
We got together through email from each other because we
406
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.880
previously talked and it was very easy to be like,
407
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oh yeah, let's do this. And yeah, if I ever
408
00:23:12.289 --> 00:23:15.329
wanted to publish anything for myself, I already have a
409
00:23:15.490 --> 00:23:17.690
great platform for promoting it. Right.
410
00:23:17.970 --> 00:23:20.339
Yeah. And so I think there are a lot of
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authors that self-publish now. I don't think it makes a difference.
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They say, well, I guess where it made a difference
413
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:30.779
for me is I do have reviews from my book
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from well-known people in the ADHD field. And I know
415
00:23:35.059 --> 00:23:38.910
for Dr. Halliwell, he would never write a book review
416
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for someone who was not published by a publisher. And
417
00:23:42.569 --> 00:23:44.910
I don't think I could have gotten some of the
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00:23:44.950 --> 00:23:47.930
people to read my book if I didn't say it
419
00:23:47.970 --> 00:23:51.890
was by a publisher. But I don't know, now that
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00:23:51.930 --> 00:23:56.039
it's in the marketplace, if that makes much difference. Do
421
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:01.079
you care that Dr. Hallowell or Dr. Ferron or Dr.
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00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:05.140
Ramsey or Kathleen Nadeau wrote blurbs for my book?
423
00:24:05.599 --> 00:24:08.069
Probably not. When I do look at A number of
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like resources online for ADHD. There is, as we were
425
00:24:10.809 --> 00:24:13.349
saying earlier, you know, there is a wealth of misinformation
426
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out there. So being able to be, hey, there is
427
00:24:16.190 --> 00:24:21.039
this credibility associated with having those names there as well, though.
428
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.880
Yes. Yeah, that's true. But people have to recognize the
429
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.059
names to start with.
430
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:28.869
Yeah, that's true. Like, I mean, like, I'm like, oh,
431
00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:31.039
I recognize some of those names, but not all.
432
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:34.319
It's been fun. We like learning new things. And that
433
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.980
was something new to learn. And the other thing that's
434
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.039
been fun for me is when I ran the nonprofit,
435
00:24:40.269 --> 00:24:44.150
the first one, ADD Resources. Everything was in person. We
436
00:24:44.190 --> 00:24:47.369
had in-person support groups. We were doing a newsletter that
437
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we mailed to people. We were having a lending library
438
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of audio tapes. And if you were a member, we
439
00:24:52.990 --> 00:24:56.809
would mail you audio tapes that you'd mail back to us.
440
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And when you think about people with ADD, it was
441
00:24:59.220 --> 00:25:02.660
surprising that they mailed the things back. We didn't lose
442
00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:06.720
our possessions. And then we were having national conferences where
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00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:12.309
people would come and speak. Now... With this new organization,
444
00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:16.130
everything is online. I had to learn all of this
445
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new stuff. And I sometimes have to rely on younger
446
00:25:19.630 --> 00:25:22.009
people to tell me how it all works.
447
00:25:22.910 --> 00:25:25.589
Yeah. But I mean, it's also that much more accessible
448
00:25:25.630 --> 00:25:26.329
for people now, too.
449
00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:29.710
Oh, I think, yeah, you reach a broader audience. It
450
00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:32.809
feels like there's a lot more competition, though. Yes. I mean,
451
00:25:32.849 --> 00:25:36.029
back when we were doing it, there weren't too many
452
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places to get information about ADHD. So.
453
00:25:40.460 --> 00:25:42.559
You kind of had a corner on the market in
454
00:25:42.619 --> 00:25:46.670
a way. Yeah. And now I think you're, it takes
455
00:25:46.769 --> 00:25:49.529
a while. That's what I should say. It takes a while,
456
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more than two years.
457
00:25:51.869 --> 00:25:54.029
All right. Well, I think we're coming up on time here.
458
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Is there anything you want to leave the audience with?
459
00:25:56.630 --> 00:25:58.730
And I will be sure to also include links to
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00:25:58.890 --> 00:26:00.450
your book and stuff in the show notes as well.
461
00:26:01.299 --> 00:26:04.319
Well, what I think are the two key things if
462
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.960
you're gotten diagnosed with ADHD is first, to focus on
463
00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:13.259
stopping your critical self-talk, to become aware of it and
464
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to stop it. And then eventually to work on having
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positive self-talk. That is the goal. And the other thing
466
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is I think people with ADHD, once we realize areas
467
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where we're struggling, we attempt to fix too many things
468
00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:34.809
at once. And that's what I would encourage people is
469
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to take one thing at a time. That's why I
470
00:26:37.829 --> 00:26:42.690
talk about the circular staircase because you should take one
471
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step and improve and coalesce that improvement and then take
472
00:26:48.539 --> 00:26:52.619
the next step. And slowly you'll rise to the top
473
00:26:52.660 --> 00:26:53.559
of the staircase.
474
00:26:53.579 --> 00:26:57.799
I definitely know the try to do too much at once. Yeah,
475
00:26:57.839 --> 00:27:00.500
so some excellent advice for getting through anything really, but
476
00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:01.400
especially with ADHD.
477
00:27:01.849 --> 00:27:04.430
And I guess the other thing that people don't realize
478
00:27:04.529 --> 00:27:07.730
is that it's really a journey and don't think it's
479
00:27:07.769 --> 00:27:10.430
going to just be a year. It's usually three to
480
00:27:10.509 --> 00:27:15.049
five years before you actually feel like you're on top
481
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and that your life is going the way you want
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it to.
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And even then, you're going to still have speed bumps.
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Yes.
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All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on
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the show. Really appreciate you taking the time.
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Yeah.
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Thanks again to Cynthia for coming on the show. And
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be sure to check out her book, Living with Inattentive ADHD.
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Before you go, though, let's do a quick rundown of
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today's top tips. 1. Avoid trying to fix everything at once. Instead,
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prioritize one thing at a time for improvement. ADHD management
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00:27:50.740 --> 00:27:55.400
is a journey and a gradual process. 2. Social media
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platforms like TikTok and Instagram can be valuable resources for
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information and support for ADHD. However, we do need to
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be discerning in choosing reliable sources and avoid misinformation. Three,
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focus on becoming aware of your critical self-talk and work
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on replacing negative thoughts with positive self-talk. Self-compassion is a
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crucial piece for managing your ADHD effectively. That's it. Thanks
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for listening. I'd love to hear what you thought of
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this episode. Feel free to connect with me over at HackingYourADHD.com.
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00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:27.180
slash contact. If you'd like links or to read this
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00:28:27.220 --> 00:28:29.319
episode's transcript, you can go to the show notes page
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00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:34.440
at hackingyouradhd.com slash 151. If you'd like to support the show,
505
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.119
the best way to do so is to tell someone
506
00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.480
about it, especially if you think a particular episode would
507
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:40.660
resonate with them. Just click the share button on your
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00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:43.680
podcast player. Or you can consider supporting me on Patreon.
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00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:47.660
Just go to hackingyouradhd.com slash Patreon to find out more.
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00:28:50.069 --> 00:28:53.769
And now for your Moment of Dad. What do pirates
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wear under their clothes? Plunderware.