WEBVTT
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Welcome to Hacking Your ADHD. I'm your host, William Kerb,
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and I have ADHD. On this podcast, I dig into
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the tools, tactics, and best practices to help you work
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with your ADHD brain. Hey team, today on the podcast,
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we're exploring the lighter side of living with ADHD, featuring
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the hilariously honest Ellie Hino. A stand-up comic who finds
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humor in the everyday, Ellie has featured for comics such
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as Maria Bamford, Laurie Kilmartin, and Atsuko Akatsa. She recently
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released her debut album, Softbones. In our conversation today, she
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brings her personal journey with ADHD into the spotlight, sharing
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stories and strategies that hit home. We discussed getting a
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diagnosis later in life, getting started on medication, impulsivity, and
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time management. This episode is packed with relatable stories and
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actionable tips for tackling the day-to-day hurdles of ADHD. Whether
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you're newly diagnosed or a seasoned pro, or just curious,
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you'll find valuable insights and plenty to relate to. If
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you'd like to follow along on the show notes page,
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you can find that at hackingyouradhd.com slash 179. I also
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wanted to let you know about the Hacking Your ADHD newsletter,
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Any and All Distractions. And that's what this newsletter is
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all about. The things that have caught my interest over
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the past week that I think also might be interesting
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to you. In it, I bring you the top things
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of the week that have caught my attention from the
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world of ADHD and beyond. If that sounds like something
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you'd like in your inbox, just head over to hackingyouradhd.com
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slash newsletter and sign up. All right, keep on listening
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to find out how a trip on a roller coaster
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can lead to a way to getting an ADHD diagnosis.
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All right. Well, it's great to have you on the show.
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And let's start with your ADHD journey. I think that'd
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be a great place to start. And then we can
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kind of pivot into some of the comedy stuff.
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Yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me. I was actually diagnosed
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not too long ago, maybe about five years ago, and
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I'm in my 40s. So I always knew that I
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had it. I would joke about it all the time
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and people would joke about it with me. So one
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day I was looking up ADHD symptoms because I'm a
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mom and right now my child is eight years old.
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And when he was about three or something, I was
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just curious, what are the signs and symptoms of ADHD
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in a kid? And then I started seeing all of
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these lists pop up about signs and symptoms for adult ADHD.
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And I really I saw some words in there like
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easily frustrated and has trouble, you know, controlling emotions or
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impulsive stuff. It just really struck me. And I was like, wait,
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is this all of the things that I struggle with?
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so much in day-to-day life and the things that make
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my life hard. And so I got tested and I
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got the four-hour test done and it was very fascinating.
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So I was diagnosed then and it made a lot
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of sense.
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I mean, there's so many things there where I'm just like, yep.
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I mean, especially with parents and especially moms looking into
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ADHD for their kids and then being like, Hold on.
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Because I had joked about it, but I just never
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thought of it as a problem. I always thought like, yeah,
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but what am I going to do about it? I
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was like, I'm not interested in taking anything for which
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I totally do now. I absolutely take medication and it
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changed my life for the better. But yeah, the guy
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who tested me, the psychologist told me that almost all
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of the adults he diagnoses with ADHD are mothers of
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young children.
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Mm hmm.
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Because we were okay, just with ourselves, we made it work.
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And then all of a sudden, so much responsibility, and
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it just became so obvious. And the distractions are so
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strong when you have a toddler.
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Yeah, the trend I noticed too, is that with women,
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there's like a stronger inclination towards inattentive ADHD, which mainly
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affects yourself. Whereas like you have the classic young boy
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that's being super rambunctious, that's affecting everyone else. And so
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like they're going to get the diagnosis because they're bothering everyone.
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You know, you're bothering yourself. People like, oh, yeah, they're
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just quirky.
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Yeah, I have both. And I think my impulsive stuff,
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that's where I really struggle, actually. So I think there
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is some hyperactivity with me. I mean, less now that
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I'm in my mid 40s.
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But yeah.
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There's a lot of difficulty with stopping and thinking and
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making good choices.
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Well, it's really funny with the impulsivity because we think
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of it as this, oh, you're going to get out
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of your chair or you're going to be running around
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and stuff. And it's like, yeah, but it's also like
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being like, I'm going to make this really rash decision
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right now and then be like, oh, no, that was
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a terrible idea. Yeah.
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Yeah. I was actually trying to explain it to my
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husband the other day. And he was like, well, it's
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more like you get obsessed with something almost. And I
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was like, no, it's like, honestly, the thing that made
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it so obvious to me was during my ADHD testing,
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there was a specific test that he had me do
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where I like pressed a spacebar every time an X
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popped up on the screen. I remember noticing that I
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just was pressing the spacebar, even though I hadn't decided to.
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It was like, My body was making that choice for me.
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My brain was making that choice without me.
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Yeah. It's just like, oh, you have to push the button.
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Oh, I wish I hadn't done that. That's not an X,
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you know?
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Yeah. And it's also funny because I'm like, I want
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to score so well on these tests when I take them.
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Sure. Of course.
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I'm going to ace this test that is an assessment
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of who I am. What is going on in my
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brain there?
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I know. It's very interesting. And of course, that's like
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a very tiny picture of it. But then it's big thing.
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You know, honestly, on my comedy album, I tell a
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story about taking my baby on a roller coaster when
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he was a baby, which was a poor choice. And
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it was not a big one. And it was totally fine.
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And everyone's okay. It was just a little thing, but
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it went a lot faster than I thought it was
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going to. It was honestly one of the last things
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I did before I was like, ooh, something's wrong with
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my brain.
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Those like aha moments where you're like, oh, this is
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not how I think normal people think. I'm not normal
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how other people are.
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Exactly.
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I just want to make sure for listeners, like, yeah,
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it's not, our brains are fine. It's not like we're
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abnormal and it's weird.
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Oh, yeah.
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We think differently.
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We think a lot differently. We really like fun. At
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least I do. I really like fun. That roller coaster
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looked really fun. And it was fun. It just wasn't
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a super well thought out decision.
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I mean, I think that's the perfect example of impulsivity.
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It's like, oh, I want to do this thing. It'll
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be fine. I'll do it. And then like partway through,
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I'm like, I did not think this through. I thought
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I had. Yeah. That's one of the really interesting things
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with the ADHD too, is because we have this visual
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from pop culture of it, like this being quirky and
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all these things. And then when you like, you look
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up the symptoms, you're like, oh, this is different. this
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is not just quirky. This is impairing in weird ways.
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Yeah, that's why I went and got tested because I
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realized these are the things that I really struggle with
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that make me depressed and make me anxious. And I
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remember my therapist even said like, I'm sorry I didn't
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see this. And we kept just talking about regular anxiety
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this whole time because it's pretty clear where a lot
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of that anxiety comes from now.
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Yeah, I was thinking about this just recently with I'm
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rarely late to things despite my ADHD, but it's because
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it manifests as this like huge anxiety about what time
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things start. I'm like checking the clock constantly. It's like, oh,
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this is a bad coping strategy that I've developed. Yeah.
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I remember with being late one time, I used to
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have this job at a comedy theater and I lived
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literally right behind the comedy theater. So I just had
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to walk out my door through an alley to the door.
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It was incredible. But I would still be late. And
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I remember my coworker and friend was like, I don't
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know how you do it. You just decide that something
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else is more important in the time. And I was like, no,
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absolutely not.
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That is wrong.
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I am so focused on getting there on time. My
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brain just decides things take less time than they do,
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even though I know how long it takes to put
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on my shoes and walk down the stairs. But in
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the moment, I think I can do it faster.
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And it's also funny when you get like the opposite
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side of things where I'm like, man, I'm not going
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to hang up my coat. That's going to take forever. Like,
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that takes two seconds. Why am I just throwing my
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coat on the floor all the time?
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Seriously, my number one ADHD hack is hooks. Yeah. Hooks everywhere.
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My husband laughs at me because he's like, you're obsessed
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with hooks. And it's because... Yeah, a hanger on a bar,
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taking that off, putting my coat on that. No way,
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that takes too long. I won't do it. But I
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will hang it on a hook if it's in the
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right place.
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Yeah, I love command hooks because I can just stick
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them wherever I need them.
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For sure.
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This is a great place for this. This is where
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this is going. And if I'm wrong, I can take
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it down.
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Yeah. One time we lived in an apartment. We have
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our own house now, but when we were renting, one
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of the apartments we rented was... previously lived in by
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the owners and you know usually apartments are not lived
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in by anyone who owns it but because it they
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had lived there and they had money it was like
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everything was very functional and it was awesome there was
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like a place for everything and everything was well thought
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out where it was it was kind of mind-blowing and
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it helped me a lot with organizing and just real
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like okay if your shampoo bottle doesn't fit there let's
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figure out a place for it to go so that
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it doesn't just end up on the floor or whatever you.
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Know yeah always great when you've been experiencing some of
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the uh downfalls of my current house does not have
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a lot of like storage things and so we're like
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trying to like stuff is just going everywhere and it's
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like really frustrating when we're like we want to put
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stuff away but we don't know where to and it's
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yeah this is making it doubly messy for.
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Us that's so hard i have one million closets but
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most of them are not functional the one in my
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bedroom i just took the doors off of it and
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i never hang things up and i found that With
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a dresser, I honestly would just put things in a
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pile anyway. So now I just have places where clean
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piles can be. And some of them get folded and
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put on the shelves that are there too. But it's
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like I can see everything. And that helps a lot, actually.
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It is amazing how much having that visual access to like, oh,
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I don't have to mentally picture what's available. I can
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just visually scan it and go, okay, this is what
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I'm going to wear.
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Yeah.
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My closet, I just have like baskets now. I went
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away from dressers.
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Baskets, that's great. Yes, that's pretty much what I have too.
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Little bins. Bins and shelves.
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Yeah, at some point I should get like real ones
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right now. They're filing boxes. Oh, whatever.
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That's part of it, isn't it? Like you look and
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you think, okay, well, I have been trying not to
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have a pile of clothes my whole life. And there
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is always a pile of clothes. And like, I know
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there's a dirty pile over there. And there's a clean
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pile over here. What if I just didn't try to
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change that, but I made the pile have a place
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to be?
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Yeah, exactly. It's working within the system that already exists.
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It's like, okay, this is what I do. Can I
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modify this so that I'm not quite as embarrassed if
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someone else sees it? Right, exactly. So for me, it
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seems like a natural extension to do comedy with ADHD
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because we're somewhat ridiculous people. Is that something you found
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on your journey into going into comedy?
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I mean, I did comedy long before I ever really
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knew I had ADHD for sure. I did theater when
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I was young. And then I did improv and sketch.
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00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:20.919
Improv is interesting. I mean, a lot of people in
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both comedy, like stand up comedy and improv comedy have ADHD,
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I would say 90%. But like, Improv, you're literally turning
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off the part of your brain kind of that's judging
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you and stopping you from doing things. So being impulsive
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and being able to easily access your impulsive first feelings
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and thoughts is really helpful. So yeah, I think it
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makes a lot of sense. I'm more high energy, I think,
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than a lot of stand-up. Stand-up goes through trends of
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what's the style as of late. And I think it's
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changing now. But for a while, it was very low
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energy and like observational. So I kind of stuck out
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for a while. And it's got a lot of energy.
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And I think it just helps to be like, yeah,
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I think comedy is also a great way to cope
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with my ADHD, where I like see something and I'm
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just like, you know, it's like, oh, man, I did
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this in the dumbest way possible. And rather than be
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like beating myself up about it, being like, and that's
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hilarious because I could save myself so much work.
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Absolutely. A lot of my comedy is self-deprecating. I mean,
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there's a confidence behind it that makes it not annoying
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and sad, but it's very self-aware.
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That's such a vital piece of it, too, because, yeah,
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a lot of people, when they go into the self-deprecation,
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it's like, In a place where it's the shitty voice
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in the back of their head, that's where that self-deprecation
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is coming from. Whereas if it's coming from like, I
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did a dumb thing, but wow.
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You know what? I'm definitely not the only person who's
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done a thing like this. And maybe some other people
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would find this amusing.
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Absolutely. So you have a new album coming out. Your
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first one, right?
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Yeah, it just came out. It's my first album. It's
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called Soft Bones. And you can find it anywhere that
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comedy albums exist.
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Mike, where do comedy albums exist?
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iTunes, Spotify, Pandora.
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The funny thoughts that pop in your head. They exist places. Oh, yeah.
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I know where those places are.
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Yeah, you do.
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Yeah, I've been getting so much ADHD comedy on YouTube recently.
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Like the algorithm is just like we've probably when I
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started watching some of your stuff that was before we
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booked and I was like, oh, And it's like, oh,
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this is what you want.
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Oh, for sure. They know. They always know. TikTok has
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me pegged real good.
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TikTok thinks I'm a lesbian, which is a little strange, but...
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They think I.
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Am too, but they're not totally wrong. Yeah.
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I'm like, I have very similar interests, but... Oh, I
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love that.
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00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:01.960
TikTok thinks everyone's a lesbian and that is fun.
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It is amazing what the algorithms will decide about you.
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00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:06.330
And then you're like, well, I mean, I know so
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many people that like have gone through their diagnosis because
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00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:12.289
of that, because they're like, yeah, TikTok thinks I have ADHD.
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00:15:12.370 --> 00:15:14.440
And then people are like, well, why do you think
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TikTok thinks that?
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00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:21.759
Exactly. I think everyone has ADHD. Everyone I meet, I'm like,
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I have ADHD.
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00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:25.230
It is funny how like once you like kind of
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00:15:25.250 --> 00:15:28.809
get like, oh, especially within like friend groups, you're just like, oh,
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00:15:29.129 --> 00:15:32.850
this is kind of why we're all friends. Yes, for sure.
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Don't annoy the crap out of each other with our
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00:15:35.769 --> 00:15:40.480
idiosyncrasies here. I do find a lot of like neurodivergent
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00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:42.759
people flock together because it's just like they're like, oh,
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you get my brain. Great. Yeah. Let me info dump
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on you about this subject and you're going to be
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probably fascinated, too. Sure.
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Also, though, I find that sometimes I meet someone and
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I'm like, oh, they really bug me.
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And I'm like, why?
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00:15:56.559 --> 00:15:59.190
Why do I dislike them or why do they irritate me?
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00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:03.190
And then I'm like, oh, it's because they're me. All
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00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:06.669
the things that bug me about me, I can see
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00:16:06.809 --> 00:16:07.649
so clearly.
328
00:16:08.139 --> 00:16:08.279
Yeah.
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00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:08.620
Yeah.
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00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.779
There's definitely like I was at a ADHD conference last
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November and I was like sitting in a room with
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00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.620
everyone with ADHD. And I'm like, I am noticing everyone
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00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:18.889
fidgeting right now. This is not great.
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00:16:19.409 --> 00:16:19.710
Yeah.
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This is distracting me from listening to anything.
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That would be hard.
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And then I'm like, I know why they're doing it,
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00:16:25.509 --> 00:16:30.610
but everyone sits still. Let me concentrate. And I'm going
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00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:32.750
to still use my fidget toy, but mine's quiet and
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00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:35.860
it's fine. There's so many fun sides of ADHD, too,
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00:16:35.899 --> 00:16:37.990
that it is like, yeah, like I said, you really
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00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:41.370
like fun. And ADHD people also tend to really like fun.
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And it's just like, oh, yeah, we're going to have
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a good time.
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00:16:43.789 --> 00:16:46.870
Yeah, we're going to find the way to get our dopamine.
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00:16:47.129 --> 00:16:50.289
If we can't have it naturally, we will produce it.
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00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:51.309
We'll find a way.
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00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:51.730
Yeah.
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00:16:51.950 --> 00:16:53.909
Hopefully it will be good for everyone.
350
00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:56.100
Yes, a healthy way.
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00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:58.740
I know some people that do it through arguing. And
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00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:00.879
I'm like, can we not? Oh, really?
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00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.320
Does that release dopamine?
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00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:07.900
Yeah. Well, not exactly, but like the attention and the
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00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.940
like animation, like it can for certain people. Like for me,
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00:17:11.019 --> 00:17:13.349
I just like, this is upsetting and I hate it.
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00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.380
But yeah, like it is very invigorating for some people
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to be like, I'm going to like win.
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00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:24.200
That makes sense, I guess. It's like, it's stimulating. So sure. Okay.
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00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.740
Interesting. That's why I think I have trouble with social
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00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:31.059
media sometimes because I'm like, I'm going and finding stimulation
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00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:34.980
in things I don't want. To be reading. Yeah. I'm
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00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.579
reading these angry comment sections and getting myself annoyed. And
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00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.380
I'm like, oh, this is really stimulating. That's why I
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00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.230
keep open these comments on YouTube or Reddit or something,
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because I know I'm not going to enjoy what I read,
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00:17:47.509 --> 00:17:51.190
but it is my brain seeking out some sort of stimulation.
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00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:53.529
Yeah, totally. That makes sense.
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00:17:54.049 --> 00:17:55.849
I do know that is a habit that some people
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00:17:55.869 --> 00:17:58.079
have where they're like, yeah, I need that simulation somewhere.
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00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.680
I'm just going to do it in a terrible way.
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00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:04.789
Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought about the like negative
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00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:07.579
emotions are also very stimulating.
374
00:18:08.059 --> 00:18:08.319
Yeah.
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00:18:08.930 --> 00:18:09.119
Yeah.
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00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:12.039
Or doing it through food or I mean, sure. I mean,
377
00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:12.500
that's fun.
378
00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:14.700
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I hear you on that.
379
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:16.539
I had friends where we'd be like, we're going to
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00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.579
go to this food court. Everyone has to get a taco,
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00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:21.420
some pizza and a hamburger. We're going to eat them
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00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:21.940
all together.
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00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.059
We're going to.
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00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:25.720
See who can get to the table first. And I'm like,
385
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.000
you know, in retrospect, maybe those guys aren't neurotypical.
386
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.349
Yeah, that's pretty aggressive.
387
00:18:35.369 --> 00:18:36.720
And the guy that came up with it was like,
388
00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:39.950
you know, I meant this for the entire day. And
389
00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:41.710
we're like, no, we're doing it as a meal.
390
00:18:42.470 --> 00:18:44.789
Right now. That's funny. Yeah.
391
00:18:45.230 --> 00:18:48.089
I mean, it was after we'd go to a Frisbee
392
00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:50.609
tournament and do that afterwards. So we'd been running around
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00:18:50.670 --> 00:18:51.029
all day.
394
00:18:51.190 --> 00:18:53.049
Oh, that's awesome. I love it.
395
00:18:53.349 --> 00:18:54.970
We were hungry, but I was just thinking that.
396
00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:57.289
He's like, I'm not eating my burger, my pizza, and
397
00:18:57.329 --> 00:19:00.359
my taco in my car alone like everyone else. I'm
398
00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:03.200
going to Invite all my friends and make them do
399
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:03.700
it too.
400
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.819
And you don't want to get like the worst versions. Like, okay,
401
00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:08.789
let's get a good burger. Let's get some good pizza.
402
00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:09.569
Heck yeah.
403
00:19:09.930 --> 00:19:11.869
Well, I've had a pleasure talking to you. Is there
404
00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:13.829
anything you want to leave the audience with?
405
00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.589
Thanks for listening and buy some more hooks. Hang them around.
406
00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:20.490
That's my main advice.
407
00:19:20.849 --> 00:19:23.430
Well, I think people will enjoy it and they should
408
00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:25.990
definitely go check out your album. As we said, anywhere
409
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.599
that comedy albums are sold, they can figure it out.
410
00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:29.880
If I can figure it out.
411
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:31.220
For sure.
412
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:32.859
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I
413
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.000
really enjoyed talking to you.
414
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.519
Thanks for having me, Will.
415
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.509
Thanks again to Ellie for coming on the show, and
416
00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:44.049
thank you for staying with us all the way to
417
00:19:44.069 --> 00:19:46.230
the end. Be sure to check out Ellie's new album,
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00:19:46.309 --> 00:19:48.609
Soft Phones. But before you go, let's do a quick
419
00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.940
rundown of today's top tips. 1. Make living spaces ADHD-friendly
420
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:56.180
with functional organization and storage solutions that work for you.
421
00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:58.849
Think of using hooks instead of traditional hangers, or bins
422
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.329
and baskets for clothes instead of keeping your clothes tucked
423
00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:04.549
away in a dresser. 2. We can channel our impulsivity
424
00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.670
into creative outlets like comedy or improv that allow us
425
00:20:07.690 --> 00:20:10.150
to embrace the Zosards of ourselves on a regular basis.
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00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:13.930
without us having to go over the top in other situations. Three,
427
00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:16.210
acknowledge and plan for the real time it takes to
428
00:20:16.250 --> 00:20:18.529
do tasks. While it may feel like it only takes
429
00:20:18.569 --> 00:20:20.150
minutes for us to get out the door, we need
430
00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:22.089
to acknowledge all the steps involved if we want to
431
00:20:22.109 --> 00:20:24.910
have an accurate picture of how long things take. I
432
00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:27.029
also wanted to let you know about the Hacking Your
433
00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:30.509
ADHD newsletter, Any and All Distractions. And that's what this
434
00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.430
newsletter is all about. If that sounds like something you'd
435
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.859
like in your inbox, just head over to hackingyouradhd.com slash
436
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.500
newsletter and sign up. All right, that's it. Thanks for listening.
437
00:20:41.109 --> 00:20:42.700
I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode.
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00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.690
Feel free to connect with me over at hackingyouradhd.com slash contact.
439
00:20:48.269 --> 00:20:50.369
If you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript,
440
00:20:50.390 --> 00:20:53.769
you can go to the show notes page at hackingyouradhd.com
441
00:20:53.869 --> 00:20:56.750
slash 148. If you'd like to support the show, the
442
00:20:56.769 --> 00:20:58.369
best way to do so is to tell somebody about
443
00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:01.349
the show, especially if you think they'd like a particular episode.
444
00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:03.829
Just click the share button on your podcast player and
445
00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:07.569
send it over to them. And now for your moment
446
00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.819
of dad. The past, the present, and the future went
447
00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.200
into a bar. Things got tense.
1
00:00:04.669 --> 00:00:08.109
Welcome to Hacking Your ADHD. I'm your host, William Kerb,
2
00:00:08.449 --> 00:00:11.250
and I have ADHD. On this podcast, I dig into
3
00:00:11.269 --> 00:00:13.849
the tools, tactics, and best practices to help you work
4
00:00:13.970 --> 00:00:18.329
with your ADHD brain. Hey team, today on the podcast,
5
00:00:18.370 --> 00:00:21.469
we're exploring the lighter side of living with ADHD, featuring
6
00:00:21.489 --> 00:00:25.170
the hilariously honest Ellie Hino. A stand-up comic who finds
7
00:00:25.210 --> 00:00:27.690
humor in the everyday, Ellie has featured for comics such
8
00:00:27.730 --> 00:00:31.510
as Maria Bamford, Laurie Kilmartin, and Atsuko Akatsa. She recently
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00:00:31.609 --> 00:00:35.100
released her debut album, Softbones. In our conversation today, she
10
00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:37.920
brings her personal journey with ADHD into the spotlight, sharing
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00:00:37.939 --> 00:00:40.439
stories and strategies that hit home. We discussed getting a
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00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:44.140
diagnosis later in life, getting started on medication, impulsivity, and
13
00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.460
time management. This episode is packed with relatable stories and
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00:00:47.579 --> 00:00:50.920
actionable tips for tackling the day-to-day hurdles of ADHD. Whether
15
00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:53.609
you're newly diagnosed or a seasoned pro, or just curious,
16
00:00:53.630 --> 00:00:56.649
you'll find valuable insights and plenty to relate to. If
17
00:00:56.670 --> 00:00:58.270
you'd like to follow along on the show notes page,
18
00:00:58.390 --> 00:01:02.789
you can find that at hackingyouradhd.com slash 179. I also
19
00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:05.590
wanted to let you know about the Hacking Your ADHD newsletter,
20
00:01:05.609 --> 00:01:08.810
Any and All Distractions. And that's what this newsletter is
21
00:01:08.890 --> 00:01:11.209
all about. The things that have caught my interest over
22
00:01:11.230 --> 00:01:13.310
the past week that I think also might be interesting
23
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:15.760
to you. In it, I bring you the top things
24
00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:17.180
of the week that have caught my attention from the
25
00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:19.819
world of ADHD and beyond. If that sounds like something
26
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.200
you'd like in your inbox, just head over to hackingyouradhd.com
27
00:01:23.219 --> 00:01:26.719
slash newsletter and sign up. All right, keep on listening
28
00:01:26.739 --> 00:01:28.400
to find out how a trip on a roller coaster
29
00:01:28.519 --> 00:01:31.060
can lead to a way to getting an ADHD diagnosis.
30
00:01:37.450 --> 00:01:39.439
All right. Well, it's great to have you on the show.
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00:01:39.459 --> 00:01:42.180
And let's start with your ADHD journey. I think that'd
32
00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:43.349
be a great place to start. And then we can
33
00:01:43.390 --> 00:01:45.109
kind of pivot into some of the comedy stuff.
34
00:01:45.510 --> 00:01:48.969
Yeah, awesome. Thanks for having me. I was actually diagnosed
35
00:01:49.189 --> 00:01:52.609
not too long ago, maybe about five years ago, and
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00:01:52.650 --> 00:01:55.650
I'm in my 40s. So I always knew that I
37
00:01:55.750 --> 00:01:58.730
had it. I would joke about it all the time
38
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and people would joke about it with me. So one
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day I was looking up ADHD symptoms because I'm a
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mom and right now my child is eight years old.
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And when he was about three or something, I was
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just curious, what are the signs and symptoms of ADHD
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in a kid? And then I started seeing all of
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these lists pop up about signs and symptoms for adult ADHD.
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And I really I saw some words in there like
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easily frustrated and has trouble, you know, controlling emotions or
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impulsive stuff. It just really struck me. And I was like, wait,
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is this all of the things that I struggle with?
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so much in day-to-day life and the things that make
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my life hard. And so I got tested and I
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got the four-hour test done and it was very fascinating.
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So I was diagnosed then and it made a lot
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of sense.
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I mean, there's so many things there where I'm just like, yep.
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I mean, especially with parents and especially moms looking into
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ADHD for their kids and then being like, Hold on.
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Because I had joked about it, but I just never
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thought of it as a problem. I always thought like, yeah,
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but what am I going to do about it? I
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was like, I'm not interested in taking anything for which
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I totally do now. I absolutely take medication and it
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changed my life for the better. But yeah, the guy
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who tested me, the psychologist told me that almost all
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of the adults he diagnoses with ADHD are mothers of
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young children.
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Mm hmm.
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Because we were okay, just with ourselves, we made it work.
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And then all of a sudden, so much responsibility, and
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it just became so obvious. And the distractions are so
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strong when you have a toddler.
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Yeah, the trend I noticed too, is that with women,
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there's like a stronger inclination towards inattentive ADHD, which mainly
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affects yourself. Whereas like you have the classic young boy
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that's being super rambunctious, that's affecting everyone else. And so
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like they're going to get the diagnosis because they're bothering everyone.
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You know, you're bothering yourself. People like, oh, yeah, they're
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just quirky.
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Yeah, I have both. And I think my impulsive stuff,
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that's where I really struggle, actually. So I think there
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is some hyperactivity with me. I mean, less now that
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I'm in my mid 40s.
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But yeah.
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There's a lot of difficulty with stopping and thinking and
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making good choices.
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Well, it's really funny with the impulsivity because we think
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of it as this, oh, you're going to get out
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of your chair or you're going to be running around
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and stuff. And it's like, yeah, but it's also like
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being like, I'm going to make this really rash decision
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right now and then be like, oh, no, that was
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a terrible idea. Yeah.
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Yeah. I was actually trying to explain it to my
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husband the other day. And he was like, well, it's
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more like you get obsessed with something almost. And I
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was like, no, it's like, honestly, the thing that made
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it so obvious to me was during my ADHD testing,
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there was a specific test that he had me do
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where I like pressed a spacebar every time an X
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popped up on the screen. I remember noticing that I
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just was pressing the spacebar, even though I hadn't decided to.
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It was like, My body was making that choice for me.
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My brain was making that choice without me.
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Yeah. It's just like, oh, you have to push the button.
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Oh, I wish I hadn't done that. That's not an X,
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you know?
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Yeah. And it's also funny because I'm like, I want
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to score so well on these tests when I take them.
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Sure. Of course.
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I'm going to ace this test that is an assessment
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of who I am. What is going on in my
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brain there?
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I know. It's very interesting. And of course, that's like
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a very tiny picture of it. But then it's big thing.
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You know, honestly, on my comedy album, I tell a
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story about taking my baby on a roller coaster when
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he was a baby, which was a poor choice. And
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it was not a big one. And it was totally fine.
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And everyone's okay. It was just a little thing, but
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it went a lot faster than I thought it was
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going to. It was honestly one of the last things
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I did before I was like, ooh, something's wrong with
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my brain.
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Those like aha moments where you're like, oh, this is
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not how I think normal people think. I'm not normal
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how other people are.
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Exactly.
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I just want to make sure for listeners, like, yeah,
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it's not, our brains are fine. It's not like we're
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abnormal and it's weird.
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Oh, yeah.
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We think differently.
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We think a lot differently. We really like fun. At
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least I do. I really like fun. That roller coaster
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looked really fun. And it was fun. It just wasn't
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a super well thought out decision.
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I mean, I think that's the perfect example of impulsivity.
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It's like, oh, I want to do this thing. It'll
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be fine. I'll do it. And then like partway through,
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I'm like, I did not think this through. I thought
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I had. Yeah. That's one of the really interesting things
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with the ADHD too, is because we have this visual
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from pop culture of it, like this being quirky and
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all these things. And then when you like, you look
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up the symptoms, you're like, oh, this is different. this
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is not just quirky. This is impairing in weird ways.
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Yeah, that's why I went and got tested because I
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realized these are the things that I really struggle with
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that make me depressed and make me anxious. And I
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remember my therapist even said like, I'm sorry I didn't
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see this. And we kept just talking about regular anxiety
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this whole time because it's pretty clear where a lot
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of that anxiety comes from now.
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Yeah, I was thinking about this just recently with I'm
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rarely late to things despite my ADHD, but it's because
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it manifests as this like huge anxiety about what time
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things start. I'm like checking the clock constantly. It's like, oh,
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this is a bad coping strategy that I've developed. Yeah.
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I remember with being late one time, I used to
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have this job at a comedy theater and I lived
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literally right behind the comedy theater. So I just had
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to walk out my door through an alley to the door.
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It was incredible. But I would still be late. And
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I remember my coworker and friend was like, I don't
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know how you do it. You just decide that something
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else is more important in the time. And I was like, no,
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absolutely not.
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That is wrong.
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I am so focused on getting there on time. My
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brain just decides things take less time than they do,
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even though I know how long it takes to put
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on my shoes and walk down the stairs. But in
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the moment, I think I can do it faster.
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And it's also funny when you get like the opposite
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side of things where I'm like, man, I'm not going
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to hang up my coat. That's going to take forever. Like,
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that takes two seconds. Why am I just throwing my
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coat on the floor all the time?
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Seriously, my number one ADHD hack is hooks. Yeah. Hooks everywhere.
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My husband laughs at me because he's like, you're obsessed
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with hooks. And it's because... Yeah, a hanger on a bar,
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taking that off, putting my coat on that. No way,
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that takes too long. I won't do it. But I
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will hang it on a hook if it's in the
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right place.
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Yeah, I love command hooks because I can just stick
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them wherever I need them.
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For sure.
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This is a great place for this. This is where
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this is going. And if I'm wrong, I can take
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it down.
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Yeah. One time we lived in an apartment. We have
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our own house now, but when we were renting, one
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of the apartments we rented was... previously lived in by
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the owners and you know usually apartments are not lived
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in by anyone who owns it but because it they
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had lived there and they had money it was like
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everything was very functional and it was awesome there was
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like a place for everything and everything was well thought
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out where it was it was kind of mind-blowing and
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it helped me a lot with organizing and just real
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like okay if your shampoo bottle doesn't fit there let's
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figure out a place for it to go so that
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it doesn't just end up on the floor or whatever you.
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Know yeah always great when you've been experiencing some of
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the uh downfalls of my current house does not have
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a lot of like storage things and so we're like
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trying to like stuff is just going everywhere and it's
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like really frustrating when we're like we want to put
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stuff away but we don't know where to and it's
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yeah this is making it doubly messy for.
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Us that's so hard i have one million closets but
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most of them are not functional the one in my
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bedroom i just took the doors off of it and
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i never hang things up and i found that With
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a dresser, I honestly would just put things in a
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pile anyway. So now I just have places where clean
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piles can be. And some of them get folded and
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put on the shelves that are there too. But it's
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like I can see everything. And that helps a lot, actually.
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It is amazing how much having that visual access to like, oh,
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I don't have to mentally picture what's available. I can
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just visually scan it and go, okay, this is what
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I'm going to wear.
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Yeah.
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My closet, I just have like baskets now. I went
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away from dressers.
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Baskets, that's great. Yes, that's pretty much what I have too.
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Little bins. Bins and shelves.
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Yeah, at some point I should get like real ones
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right now. They're filing boxes. Oh, whatever.
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That's part of it, isn't it? Like you look and
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you think, okay, well, I have been trying not to
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have a pile of clothes my whole life. And there
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is always a pile of clothes. And like, I know
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there's a dirty pile over there. And there's a clean
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pile over here. What if I just didn't try to
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change that, but I made the pile have a place
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to be?
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Yeah, exactly. It's working within the system that already exists.
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It's like, okay, this is what I do. Can I
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modify this so that I'm not quite as embarrassed if
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someone else sees it? Right, exactly. So for me, it
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seems like a natural extension to do comedy with ADHD
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because we're somewhat ridiculous people. Is that something you found
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on your journey into going into comedy?
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I mean, I did comedy long before I ever really
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knew I had ADHD for sure. I did theater when
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I was young. And then I did improv and sketch.
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Improv is interesting. I mean, a lot of people in
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both comedy, like stand up comedy and improv comedy have ADHD,
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I would say 90%. But like, Improv, you're literally turning
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off the part of your brain kind of that's judging
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you and stopping you from doing things. So being impulsive
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and being able to easily access your impulsive first feelings
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and thoughts is really helpful. So yeah, I think it
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makes a lot of sense. I'm more high energy, I think,
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than a lot of stand-up. Stand-up goes through trends of
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what's the style as of late. And I think it's
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changing now. But for a while, it was very low
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energy and like observational. So I kind of stuck out
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for a while. And it's got a lot of energy.
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And I think it just helps to be like, yeah,
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I think comedy is also a great way to cope
264
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with my ADHD, where I like see something and I'm
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just like, you know, it's like, oh, man, I did
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this in the dumbest way possible. And rather than be
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like beating myself up about it, being like, and that's
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hilarious because I could save myself so much work.
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Absolutely. A lot of my comedy is self-deprecating. I mean,
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there's a confidence behind it that makes it not annoying
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and sad, but it's very self-aware.
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That's such a vital piece of it, too, because, yeah,
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a lot of people, when they go into the self-deprecation,
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it's like, In a place where it's the shitty voice
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in the back of their head, that's where that self-deprecation
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is coming from. Whereas if it's coming from like, I
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did a dumb thing, but wow.
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You know what? I'm definitely not the only person who's
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done a thing like this. And maybe some other people
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would find this amusing.
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Absolutely. So you have a new album coming out. Your
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first one, right?
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Yeah, it just came out. It's my first album. It's
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called Soft Bones. And you can find it anywhere that
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comedy albums exist.
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Mike, where do comedy albums exist?
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iTunes, Spotify, Pandora.
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The funny thoughts that pop in your head. They exist places. Oh, yeah.
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I know where those places are.
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Yeah, you do.
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Yeah, I've been getting so much ADHD comedy on YouTube recently.
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Like the algorithm is just like we've probably when I
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started watching some of your stuff that was before we
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booked and I was like, oh, And it's like, oh,
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this is what you want.
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Oh, for sure. They know. They always know. TikTok has
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me pegged real good.
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TikTok thinks I'm a lesbian, which is a little strange, but...
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They think I.
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Am too, but they're not totally wrong. Yeah.
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I'm like, I have very similar interests, but... Oh, I
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love that.
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TikTok thinks everyone's a lesbian and that is fun.
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It is amazing what the algorithms will decide about you.
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And then you're like, well, I mean, I know so
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many people that like have gone through their diagnosis because
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00:15:09.289 --> 00:15:12.289
of that, because they're like, yeah, TikTok thinks I have ADHD.
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And then people are like, well, why do you think
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TikTok thinks that?
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00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:21.759
Exactly. I think everyone has ADHD. Everyone I meet, I'm like,
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I have ADHD.
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00:15:23.500 --> 00:15:25.230
It is funny how like once you like kind of
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get like, oh, especially within like friend groups, you're just like, oh,
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this is kind of why we're all friends. Yes, for sure.
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Don't annoy the crap out of each other with our
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00:15:35.769 --> 00:15:40.480
idiosyncrasies here. I do find a lot of like neurodivergent
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00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:42.759
people flock together because it's just like they're like, oh,
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you get my brain. Great. Yeah. Let me info dump
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on you about this subject and you're going to be
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probably fascinated, too. Sure.
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00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:53.000
Also, though, I find that sometimes I meet someone and
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00:15:53.059 --> 00:15:54.919
I'm like, oh, they really bug me.
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00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:56.399
And I'm like, why?
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Why do I dislike them or why do they irritate me?
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00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:03.190
And then I'm like, oh, it's because they're me. All
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00:16:03.250 --> 00:16:06.669
the things that bug me about me, I can see
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00:16:06.809 --> 00:16:07.649
so clearly.
328
00:16:08.139 --> 00:16:08.279
Yeah.
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00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:08.620
Yeah.
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00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.779
There's definitely like I was at a ADHD conference last
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00:16:11.820 --> 00:16:13.539
November and I was like sitting in a room with
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00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.620
everyone with ADHD. And I'm like, I am noticing everyone
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00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:18.889
fidgeting right now. This is not great.
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00:16:19.409 --> 00:16:19.710
Yeah.
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00:16:19.730 --> 00:16:22.090
This is distracting me from listening to anything.
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00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:23.250
That would be hard.
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00:16:23.809 --> 00:16:25.350
And then I'm like, I know why they're doing it,
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00:16:25.509 --> 00:16:30.610
but everyone sits still. Let me concentrate. And I'm going
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00:16:30.629 --> 00:16:32.750
to still use my fidget toy, but mine's quiet and
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00:16:32.789 --> 00:16:35.860
it's fine. There's so many fun sides of ADHD, too,
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00:16:35.899 --> 00:16:37.990
that it is like, yeah, like I said, you really
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00:16:38.019 --> 00:16:41.370
like fun. And ADHD people also tend to really like fun.
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And it's just like, oh, yeah, we're going to have
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a good time.
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00:16:43.789 --> 00:16:46.870
Yeah, we're going to find the way to get our dopamine.
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00:16:47.129 --> 00:16:50.289
If we can't have it naturally, we will produce it.
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00:16:50.690 --> 00:16:51.309
We'll find a way.
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00:16:51.509 --> 00:16:51.730
Yeah.
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00:16:51.950 --> 00:16:53.909
Hopefully it will be good for everyone.
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00:16:54.450 --> 00:16:56.100
Yes, a healthy way.
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00:16:56.340 --> 00:16:58.740
I know some people that do it through arguing. And
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00:16:58.779 --> 00:17:00.879
I'm like, can we not? Oh, really?
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00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.320
Does that release dopamine?
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00:17:02.340 --> 00:17:07.900
Yeah. Well, not exactly, but like the attention and the
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00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:10.940
like animation, like it can for certain people. Like for me,
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00:17:11.019 --> 00:17:13.349
I just like, this is upsetting and I hate it.
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00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:17.380
But yeah, like it is very invigorating for some people
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00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:19.519
to be like, I'm going to like win.
359
00:17:19.539 --> 00:17:24.200
That makes sense, I guess. It's like, it's stimulating. So sure. Okay.
360
00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.740
Interesting. That's why I think I have trouble with social
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00:17:27.779 --> 00:17:31.059
media sometimes because I'm like, I'm going and finding stimulation
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00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:34.980
in things I don't want. To be reading. Yeah. I'm
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00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.579
reading these angry comment sections and getting myself annoyed. And
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00:17:38.619 --> 00:17:41.380
I'm like, oh, this is really stimulating. That's why I
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00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.230
keep open these comments on YouTube or Reddit or something,
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00:17:44.349 --> 00:17:47.190
because I know I'm not going to enjoy what I read,
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00:17:47.509 --> 00:17:51.190
but it is my brain seeking out some sort of stimulation.
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00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:53.529
Yeah, totally. That makes sense.
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00:17:54.049 --> 00:17:55.849
I do know that is a habit that some people
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00:17:55.869 --> 00:17:58.079
have where they're like, yeah, I need that simulation somewhere.
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00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:00.680
I'm just going to do it in a terrible way.
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00:18:01.250 --> 00:18:04.789
Yeah, that's interesting. I never thought about the like negative
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00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:07.579
emotions are also very stimulating.
374
00:18:08.059 --> 00:18:08.319
Yeah.
375
00:18:08.930 --> 00:18:09.119
Yeah.
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00:18:09.150 --> 00:18:12.039
Or doing it through food or I mean, sure. I mean,
377
00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:12.500
that's fun.
378
00:18:12.819 --> 00:18:14.700
Oh, my gosh. Yeah, I hear you on that.
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00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:16.539
I had friends where we'd be like, we're going to
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00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:18.579
go to this food court. Everyone has to get a taco,
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00:18:18.900 --> 00:18:21.420
some pizza and a hamburger. We're going to eat them
382
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:21.940
all together.
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00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.059
We're going to.
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00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:25.720
See who can get to the table first. And I'm like,
385
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:29.000
you know, in retrospect, maybe those guys aren't neurotypical.
386
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.349
Yeah, that's pretty aggressive.
387
00:18:35.369 --> 00:18:36.720
And the guy that came up with it was like,
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00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:39.950
you know, I meant this for the entire day. And
389
00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:41.710
we're like, no, we're doing it as a meal.
390
00:18:42.470 --> 00:18:44.789
Right now. That's funny. Yeah.
391
00:18:45.230 --> 00:18:48.089
I mean, it was after we'd go to a Frisbee
392
00:18:48.109 --> 00:18:50.609
tournament and do that afterwards. So we'd been running around
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00:18:50.670 --> 00:18:51.029
all day.
394
00:18:51.190 --> 00:18:53.049
Oh, that's awesome. I love it.
395
00:18:53.349 --> 00:18:54.970
We were hungry, but I was just thinking that.
396
00:18:54.990 --> 00:18:57.289
He's like, I'm not eating my burger, my pizza, and
397
00:18:57.329 --> 00:19:00.359
my taco in my car alone like everyone else. I'm
398
00:19:00.380 --> 00:19:03.200
going to Invite all my friends and make them do
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00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:03.700
it too.
400
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.819
And you don't want to get like the worst versions. Like, okay,
401
00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:08.789
let's get a good burger. Let's get some good pizza.
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00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:09.569
Heck yeah.
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00:19:09.930 --> 00:19:11.869
Well, I've had a pleasure talking to you. Is there
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00:19:11.990 --> 00:19:13.829
anything you want to leave the audience with?
405
00:19:14.150 --> 00:19:18.589
Thanks for listening and buy some more hooks. Hang them around.
406
00:19:18.609 --> 00:19:20.490
That's my main advice.
407
00:19:20.849 --> 00:19:23.430
Well, I think people will enjoy it and they should
408
00:19:23.450 --> 00:19:25.990
definitely go check out your album. As we said, anywhere
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00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:28.599
that comedy albums are sold, they can figure it out.
410
00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:29.880
If I can figure it out.
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00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:31.220
For sure.
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00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:32.859
Thank you so much for coming on the show. I
413
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.000
really enjoyed talking to you.
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00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:35.519
Thanks for having me, Will.
415
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:42.509
Thanks again to Ellie for coming on the show, and
416
00:19:42.549 --> 00:19:44.049
thank you for staying with us all the way to
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00:19:44.069 --> 00:19:46.230
the end. Be sure to check out Ellie's new album,
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00:19:46.309 --> 00:19:48.609
Soft Phones. But before you go, let's do a quick
419
00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:52.940
rundown of today's top tips. 1. Make living spaces ADHD-friendly
420
00:19:52.980 --> 00:19:56.180
with functional organization and storage solutions that work for you.
421
00:19:56.539 --> 00:19:58.849
Think of using hooks instead of traditional hangers, or bins
422
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.329
and baskets for clothes instead of keeping your clothes tucked
423
00:20:01.369 --> 00:20:04.549
away in a dresser. 2. We can channel our impulsivity
424
00:20:04.670 --> 00:20:07.670
into creative outlets like comedy or improv that allow us
425
00:20:07.690 --> 00:20:10.150
to embrace the Zosards of ourselves on a regular basis.
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00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:13.930
without us having to go over the top in other situations. Three,
427
00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:16.210
acknowledge and plan for the real time it takes to
428
00:20:16.250 --> 00:20:18.529
do tasks. While it may feel like it only takes
429
00:20:18.569 --> 00:20:20.150
minutes for us to get out the door, we need
430
00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:22.089
to acknowledge all the steps involved if we want to
431
00:20:22.109 --> 00:20:24.910
have an accurate picture of how long things take. I
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00:20:24.930 --> 00:20:27.029
also wanted to let you know about the Hacking Your
433
00:20:27.049 --> 00:20:30.509
ADHD newsletter, Any and All Distractions. And that's what this
434
00:20:30.569 --> 00:20:33.430
newsletter is all about. If that sounds like something you'd
435
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.859
like in your inbox, just head over to hackingyouradhd.com slash
436
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.500
newsletter and sign up. All right, that's it. Thanks for listening.
437
00:20:41.109 --> 00:20:42.700
I'd love to hear what you thought of this episode.
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00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.690
Feel free to connect with me over at hackingyouradhd.com slash contact.
439
00:20:48.269 --> 00:20:50.369
If you'd like links or to read this episode's transcript,
440
00:20:50.390 --> 00:20:53.769
you can go to the show notes page at hackingyouradhd.com
441
00:20:53.869 --> 00:20:56.750
slash 148. If you'd like to support the show, the
442
00:20:56.769 --> 00:20:58.369
best way to do so is to tell somebody about
443
00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:01.349
the show, especially if you think they'd like a particular episode.
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00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:03.829
Just click the share button on your podcast player and
445
00:21:03.849 --> 00:21:07.569
send it over to them. And now for your moment
446
00:21:07.589 --> 00:21:10.819
of dad. The past, the present, and the future went
447
00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.200
into a bar. Things got tense.
