WEBVTT
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We worked to get Louisiana hunting allowed with suppressors. We
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got that. They would only go for the outlaw quadruped,
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just kind of the camel under the tent. But we
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knew we'd be able to kind of progressively go through it.
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At that, we started working on getting rid of the
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state registry. We were able to do that. And then
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a couple of years later, we got rid of the
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requirement for outlaw quadrupeds. So now all game is open
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for hunting. Except for now.
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I'm Ryan Gresham. And this... This is Gun Talk Nation.
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Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Ruger, Leupold, Colt,
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Savage Arms, Shooting Sports Life, and Remington Ammunitions. Hey, welcome
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into Gun Talk Nation. Today on Gun Talk Nation, we're
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gonna be talking the NFA and dealing with the ATF,
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a little bit behind the scenes on that stuff. And
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to do that, we got our buddy Joe Moe on
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the show from just down the road. Joe, Ackless Defense
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is the company. You guys make suppressors. You're one of the,
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or the largest suppressor manufacturer in Louisiana, is that right?
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We're definitely the largest NFA and suppressor shop in Louisiana.
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I think probably the Gulf Coast area.
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Yeah. So we've known each other for several years. And
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because you've been doing it for so long, you said 2009,
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making suppressors, being an NFA shop. And that's kind of,
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we were saying before we started, it's like, that's like
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the OG part. Like that starts to be before it
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was super common for people buying all these silencers and suppressors.
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And so you've kind of been there and done that
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and seen things change over the years. But let's start here.
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Atlas Defense. Talk about what do you guys do and
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how do you do it differently?
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So we're a manufacturer. We are based in Baton Rouge.
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Whenever I got into the gun world, NFA world, suppressors
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weren't really that common. They were known about, but they
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were hard to get, especially in Louisiana. They were very
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hard to get because there was a bunch of extra
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steps because Louisiana had their own state NFA registry, which
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was absolutely miserable. And I didn't realize how miserable it
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was going to be until I started manufacturing as our
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numbers started getting bigger. But we designed things and developed
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things for long-term use. Because when I got into it,
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we were waiting 18, 16, almost two years for an approval.
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When we get it, the suppressor's already out of date.
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There's newer technology out there. We're stuck with this for life.
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So whenever I started designing suppressors, we went for a
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future-proof concept. So all of our suppressors can always be upgraded,
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whether that's lighter, quieter, faster, cheaper, everything. Is that a.
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Case of the serialized part, you can swap everything else out?
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That's exactly it. Okay. So we're the innovators, and if
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you see a lot of that technology in some of
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the other cans out there, That's more than likely we've
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either designed it or we're manufacturing parts or maybe even
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manufacturing the whole silencer for it. We're an OEM manufacturer.
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We manufacture not under just Atlas Defense, but other suppressor
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and NFA brands.
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Which is common in the gun world.
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Very common.
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It's not really even a dig on people. There are
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gun companies who other people make their guns. There are
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suppressor companies where they contract out the manufacturing of the suppressors, right?
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I mean, this is scopes and binos and all kinds
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of things. This is very common.
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In the suppressor world, the vast majority of suppressors are
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made by other people. And we're just one of the,
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we're one of those OEM companies. We're one of the
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originators with designs and concepts and technology. We kind of
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keep a lot of things in our pocket. So if
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somebody comes up, it's like, hey, I've got something. Let's
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build off of there. Of course, as Atlas Defense, For
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that brand, we keep the best stuff for ourselves. We've
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got some pretty good stuff.
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So you've been dealing with this for so long. You
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kind of teased it. Talk about the process of how
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it's changed over the years and really talk about how difficult,
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what was the process like back 15, 17 years ago?
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Well, the NFA world was dark art until around 96, 98,
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2000 when the internet really started to become prevalent uh
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it was back shop secrets like hey you want a
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suppressor you want a machine gun right but the prices
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like especially on transferable machine guns was a kind of
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a slow rise it's a fixed fixed market suppressors oh
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those are dangerous they make guns silent which in in
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fact that they don't uh they're still significant report even
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on some of the quietest suppressors Now we do manufacture
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the quietest suppressor in existence.
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Okay, that's a big claim. Let's get to that later, yeah.
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The internet really broke the information to people and you
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started seeing a really rapid rise in NFA exposure around
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2004 all the way up to 2009, which is when
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my first exposure into an actual FFL and becoming a
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licensee and building things there. And suppressors are super neat.
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Let's build some very simple suppressors. made some, now let's
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register them. How do we do that? Well, first, we
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can't do a Form 2, which is typical. A manufacturer
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would register a Form 2. It's a notification to the ATF. Well,
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in Louisiana, prior to 2011, we had to notify the
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state police, their public safety department, basically the guys that
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do public safety, also the concealed carry weapons. They also
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had the state registry. So we had to send hard
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copies of the registration of the manufacturing notification to the state,
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get approval from the state, which could take weeks, if
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not months, get them back to us. Once we have that,
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then we could submit a form to the ATF with
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a copy of that form. After that, then the ATF
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would approve it and put it into our registry for sale.
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So the NFTR, the National Firearms Transaction Record, They added
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another letter apparently in the last three years, but it
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will always be the NFTR to me. So once that
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number is in our inventory or an individual's inventory, that's
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the registration of the tax payment, not a registration of
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a firearm, the registration of a tax payment. So once
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it's there in Louisiana at that time, now we could
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look for a buyer or to sell or to transfer
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it out to another dealer. So we would have that inventory.
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We would find a buyer, individual out of state transfer,
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another dealer or whatnot. And we had to send a
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permission slip to the state police again. Hey, we want
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to do this form three, this transfer from us to
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somewhere else.
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Like us as the manufacturer to someone buying this thing.
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Correct. And then we'd wait for that in triplicate. We
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get it back. We would then submit it again to
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the ATF to wait for the actual transfer. So the process,
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when we were doing these ones, twos, threes, fives at
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a time, wasn't a huge deal. But as we started
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growing and getting bigger, batches of 20, 30, 50, 100,
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100 suppressors, that's 150 pieces of paper that we had
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to submit back and forth to state police, keep on record,
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and then send it to the ATF, wait for approval.
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and then we could try and sell it, and then
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to get it out of our registry again, we had
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to do the same process.
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I mean, from the time you make it to actually
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give the suppressor to an end user, I mean, it
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could be like 18 months, more than that, maybe? Or more, yeah.
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I mean, that's... At that time frame, it transitioned.
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That literally is a nightmare. That is a nightmare doing business.
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I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.
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Well, explain why there wasn't many suppressor shops in Louisiana.
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No kidding, no one wants to mess with it. Only
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crazy people, Joe.
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Yeah, only people that just, I love the industry, I
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love guns. Suppressors were really cool. Got into it and
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growing from there.
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But that's changed now, right? I mean, Louisiana has gotten
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quite a bit better. Yes. And then even, obviously, now
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we have a lot of changes in the last couple years, federally,
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dealing with NFA stuff.
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So in 2011, we worked to get Louisiana.
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Hunting allowed with suppressors. We got that. They would only
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go for the outlaw quadruped, just kind of the camel
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under the tent. But we knew we'd be able to
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kind of progressively go through it. At that, we started
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working on getting rid of the state registry. We were
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able to do that. And then a couple of years later,
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we got rid of the requirement for outlaw quadrupeds. So
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now all game is open for hunting, except for now.
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There's maybe some questions. Oh, really?
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Yeah. Well, this is a good kind of message for
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people listening and watching this is we want things to
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happen quickly, but it doesn't happen quickly. Certainly in gun laws,
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gun regulations, state regs, it takes a while. It can
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take years of plugging away at it. And honestly, there
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is kind of that plan like, okay, this is a five,
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six year plan of like, okay, we're going to get
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this passed and we're going to get this allowed. And
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then we can expand it from there because they're going
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to see that there aren't any problems with people using
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this because people will make up problems. You know, the,
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the game warden guys will like, well, this could, they
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could use this to poach. Well, they're already poaching. and
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they're poaching without silencers. So like they're just poaching with
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freaking spotlights. And then you go like this made up like,
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but what if, but what if, and you go, okay,
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now we've been doing it. The what if hasn't become
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a problem. It's kind of like concealed carry, but what if?
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Every fender bender turns into a gunfight. Well, that hasn't
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really happened. So let's move on with the what if.
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You know, what if the air is flat?
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Well, it's the largest NFA section. I mean, there's more.
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suppressors out there than anything else. At last count, it
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was 6.6 million, which is way beyond what they deem
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as in common use. Suppressors are out there. There has
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been almost no instances of any criminal act performed with
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a silencer. Almost nobody's ever caught or really poaching with suppressors.
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It just really isn't. really isn't a thing. People don't
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go out and do it. People that own suppressors, some
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of the most law abiding people. And this is the
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same thing that's been over and over. Concealed carry people,
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people in the gun industry in general, they're law abiding,
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good citizens. And that's what we want to support. We
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have recently been thrown into what I would consider a
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nightmare situation because of how fast these things are changing.
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And I think it's a good opportunity. So recently, The
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ATF got looped into some lawsuits. There was the Jensen
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versus ATF, which is some plaintiffs versus the ATF. Basically
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calling them out like, hey, now you, the NFA is
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now an illegal gun registry. It was a pseudo tax
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roll and you just happen to have a serial number
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tied to it. We always know it was a gun registry.
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The tax was just an excuse to be able to
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legally allow it. Now that there's no tax, Now, all basis,
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all color that you thought that this was a legit
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constitutional thing is gone and out the window. So we
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knew the lawsuits were coming. We knew the result that
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was going to happen. We weren't expecting how fast and
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immediate it was going to drop. And ATF, as a
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big organization, they can't pivot and come up with things
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to deal with this, nor we don't know how they're
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going to deal with it yet. So we had about
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a seven-day period to kind of spool up and get
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together with the industry and figure out how we're going
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to do it. And there's been a bunch of people
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with so many different ideas and directions to do it.
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There's not one dealer that's doing it the same way.
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Yeah, I mean, when this Jensen case broke and, you know,
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everyone's going, wait a minute, now we can just go
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buy silencers on a 4473 and, like, Take it with us.
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How does this work? And a lot of dealers were, yes,
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were excited on the gun rights side, but a lot
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of dealers are going, but we want to do this
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the right way, and we need guidance from the ATF.
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You teased the quietest silencer, and I want to talk
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about that right after this break. Need to get on
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Has nice texture, has a little bit bigger grip module
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on it, so you can get a little bit more
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grip on the gun. Has a 13-round magazine, also a
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10-round magazine. So it's just been enhanced a bit. Still small,
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still easy to shoot. and still very reliable as a Ruger.
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So go check it out, the Ruger LCP Max with
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to watch it at shootingsportslife.com. All right, so Joe, you
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said the quietest silencer out there. And then, I mean,
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tell me about this because this is really kind of
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a a design that is, I guess, the quietest type
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of design, type of silencer. Is that right?
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Yeah. So you got, there's major suppressor designs. There's like
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a baffle stack and there's monocore. And then there's another
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technology called wipe technology. And it's, I guess, kind of
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the original earlier technology. Wipes were very popular back in
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the 70s and 80s because it's a physical seal, a
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physical barrier in the can. So wipe technology, cans have
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gotten a little bit more popular. And I think it's
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a great thing because you can get very compact, very
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quiet suppressors with it.
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And I mean, describe what a wipe is.
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All right, a wipe is a physical but flexible barrier
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that the bullet passes through, pops through, and then exits,
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seals back down, keeps the gas inside the can. That's
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what we're, all suppressors are designed to convert the the
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energy of the explosion and release it as slowly as possible.
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So you can do that with heat. You can do
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it with physical entrapment. You can do it by slowing it.
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There's Tesla valves. There's all kinds of theories and things,
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more tubes, wraps. But the wipe is a very simple
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physical barrier that literally traps the gas inside the can.
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And there's combinations of it where you have baffle cans
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or you have wipe cans. But we manufacture a can
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that has baffles and wipes. So it gets you the
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best of both worlds. It extends your lifespan and things
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like that.
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Is it kind of fair to say it's a little
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bit of like a lower tech can or the wipe system?
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I mean, because they're like little rubberized discs, right?
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The idea behind it, yeah, you could say it's old tech,
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but with... the technology of the materials, material technologies, the
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devices to hold them inside of the cans and things
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like that. It's gotten to be pretty high tech. Now
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they are a limited life product, but when you're looking
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for that absolute quiet as possible, a wipe can is
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going to be there.
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It can be crazy quiet, right? If you have a
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wipe can with like some sort of subsonic load, like
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a 300 blackout. Like it's potentially, I mean, if you had,
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I don't know, I'm just thinking about Louisiana hunting, right?
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Deer at a feeder. I mean, it's potentially, you could
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shoot a deer and the other deer don't run away, right?
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Yeah, you can do that with most suppressors because game
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animals and animals in general, they don't recognize sound. They
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don't recognize what a suppressed gunshot is. It's a little
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bit different because the report is diminished sound. very, very much.
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The supersonic flight, so the bullet, the supersonic crack happens
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off of perpendicular to the face of the bullet. So
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if you're a hundred yards down the range, the bullet
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sounds like it came from a hundred yards further down.
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So what's happening at the animal's location, it sounds like
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right there. So they don't know where to go, don't
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know where to run. So especially with pig hunting, it's
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become Suppressors have become the way to do that.
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Yeah, pigs will just start running at you. They don't
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even know where the.
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Noise came from. They will typically, with even gunshot, they
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would run away from the sound. With suppressed shot, they
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just scatter. They don't know where we're going. So you
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have pigs coming towards you, away from you, left and right.
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So it gives you many, many more chances to shoot.
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So you take the ones that are going... left and right,
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then you go to the ones that are going away
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and then you get the ones that are coming toward you.
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So you can get a lot more shots out of it.
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And that's typical with game animals. Now with an ultra
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quiet can like a wipe equipped can, and you typically
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can't use supersonic or high velocity rifle rounds with a
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wipe because it'll start the deformation, lose accuracy, can damage
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the can, can damage things like that. So it typically
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is a pistol caliber subsonic caliber kind of thing only.
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00:19:45.619 --> 00:19:48.609
Yeah, it's kind of a specific use, but like you said,
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if you're purely going for quietest possibility, the wipe cans
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are hard to beat.
329
00:19:54.660 --> 00:20:00.049
Yeah. And many of the manufacturers offer solutions for it,
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and I think Dead Air is probably one of my favorites.
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Hush Puppy has one. Gemtech, the Aurora II, is probably
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one of the the older ones. So there's lots out there,
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00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:14.559
but I think my favorite segment of it or part
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of it is when the ATF started regulating wipes as
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suppressor parts. In the past, it kind of always been
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suppressor parts, but they never really said, hey, these are
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suppressor parts, you can't have spares. They started kind of
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coming down on it, unfortunately, about eight to 10 years
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ago with as wipes started becoming more popular. But Mike Pappas,
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00:20:39.630 --> 00:20:42.569
he's genius. It's one of my favorite videos I've ever
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watched on YouTube. One of my favorite marketing things. Dead
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00:20:45.900 --> 00:20:48.160
Air makes some great stuff. Mike's got a great sense
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of humor. But it was right as this was happening.
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And it's a YouTube video. It starts where Mike's at
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his house or some random somewhere. He's looking at a silencer.
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No words, no audio or nothing. He just looks at his,
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I think it was a Wolfman. They have the little
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special white cat.
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And Mike is a character.
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He is an absolute character. He's great at the shows,
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just talking to him. He loves the industry. He loves suppressors,
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00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:19.559
which is kind of cool. He just looks at the can.
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And he gets, there's a clip where it shows him
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going out to his car, driving in the car, showing
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up at the hardware store, getting out, going down the aisle,
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going to a faucet washer aisle.
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He looks.
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00:21:35.690 --> 00:21:38.670
The camera zooms in on a particular part number and
359
00:21:39.109 --> 00:21:42.390
it's a faucet washer. It's not a faucet washer when
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it's in the can, but until it's in the can,
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you have not intended to change its purpose. So it's
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00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:50.200
not a wipe yet. Gets it, it goes back to
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00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:51.640
his car, he takes it out of the wrapper, puts
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it in the can. And then that's it. That's the
365
00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.619
end of the video. No audio. But it's one of
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those things that kind of shows how ridiculous some of
367
00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:03.289
these things are. But also as a manufacturer, we have
368
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to comply.
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Yeah.
370
00:22:04.849 --> 00:22:10.119
But. we try and still like, we're having fun with this.
371
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Yeah, you have to. I mean, and kind of going
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back to the whole NFA and ATF and compliant thing.
373
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:20.380
One of the things that some people know, some people
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00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.049
may not know is when you have your FFL, your
375
00:22:24.109 --> 00:22:27.750
federal firearms license, and then you have the SOT part,
376
00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:30.470
and then you have different, you can be an 0207,
377
00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.269
you can be a manufacturer, you have different types of
378
00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:36.250
licenses as being a, A manufacturer of silencers or firearms
379
00:22:36.289 --> 00:22:41.930
or whatever. But step one is having an FFL, having
380
00:22:41.950 --> 00:22:47.309
that license. And one of the things is the ATF
381
00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:52.180
can show up at your physical location unannounced and do
382
00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:52.839
an inspection.
383
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:54.819
At any business hour time.
384
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.640
Has that ever happened to you?
385
00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:57.779
Oh, absolutely. All the time.
386
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:00.900
And they don't announce. They don't call first. No.
387
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:06.140
I don't believe we've ever gotten a pre-announcement call. It's like,
388
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:12.490
I think one of my favorites, really great agent, just
389
00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:16.089
showed up at 9.30, we open up at 10. But
390
00:23:16.109 --> 00:23:19.410
we're always there beforehand. He knocks on the door and
391
00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:24.539
I look and I can probably see what I look like.
392
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:26.660
I probably had to, oh, not today.
393
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.359
Yeah, I don't have time for this. Not today.
394
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:33.170
It was just after a Black Friday event. and one
395
00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:38.440
of our busiest weekends. Luckily, we run a pretty tight ship.
396
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.720
We have to. I mean, manufacturing and sales and things
397
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.859
like that. 9.30, it's like, I'm sorry to do this today.
398
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.200
I'm like, it's all right. Come on in. Let's get
399
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:47.619
her going.
400
00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:50.400
I thought you were going to say, well, see, our
401
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.460
posted hours is 10, so you're going to have to
402
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.140
wait outside for a half hour. Well.
403
00:23:56.089 --> 00:23:59.759
Yes, technically you could do that. You could. But, again,
404
00:23:59.779 --> 00:24:02.599
you want to maintain a rapport. I mean, they're doing
405
00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:03.119
their job.
406
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.500
It's not combative, really. Most of these agents are good people.
407
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:13.720
Most of them are good people. They're knowledgeable. But there's
408
00:24:13.930 --> 00:24:17.849
always ways of looking at laws and interpreting them different
409
00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:21.210
ways or looking at, worst case, looking at rules. I
410
00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:25.450
hate rules. Rules are not laws.
411
00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:28.839
Because that's a lot of there's there's flexibility in how
412
00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:30.160
they apply more interpretation.
413
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:34.160
Yeah. Yeah. And then how and when and who rules
414
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.980
can be rules are made to be broken. I think
415
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.400
that's it.
416
00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:37.480
Yeah. Yeah.
417
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:42.529
So the inconsistent application of them can be kind of frustrating,
418
00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:46.450
which that's why I like laws. And that's why I
419
00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:48.809
like the way that this is going for the NFA world.
420
00:24:48.869 --> 00:24:50.650
I think we were able to get some laws on
421
00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:54.170
the books to get some corrective action to get either
422
00:24:54.910 --> 00:25:00.599
suppressors out of NFA or at least reduce the requirement.
423
00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:02.779
I think worst case they're going to have to stay
424
00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:05.960
in NFA because when we talk about the injunction the
425
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.720
court case ATF versus Jensen it was about the transfer
426
00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.750
to the individual owners where the infringement was. As a
427
00:25:15.769 --> 00:25:19.170
manufacturer we're still bound by that and there was never
428
00:25:19.210 --> 00:25:21.930
any mention on how we do it. So these items
429
00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:24.420
are They're going in the NFA registry no matter what.
430
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:28.420
If you're buying them on 4473, they're in that NFTR,
431
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.460
and that's going to be the manufacturer's or dealer's problem
432
00:25:32.529 --> 00:25:34.109
to figure out how to get that. And that's the
433
00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:36.109
biggest thing that the ATF needs to tell us is
434
00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:37.549
how we're going to do this.
435
00:25:37.990 --> 00:25:42.589
Talk about that because right when this thing broke, whenever
436
00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:46.430
that was, weeks or months ago, there was a lot
437
00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:48.450
of excitement. It was like, we're going to go out
438
00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:51.660
and just buy silencers on 4473s But a lot of
439
00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:54.319
dealers are like, I got to get guidance on this.
440
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:57.299
And you guys got heat for that from some people.
441
00:25:57.339 --> 00:25:59.380
A lot of people did, especially the guys that wanted
442
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.970
to be super conservative. Hey, we want to know what's
443
00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:06.950
going on. We were in a, I guess, a little
444
00:26:06.990 --> 00:26:10.950
bit different situation because as a manufacturer, we're kind of
445
00:26:11.009 --> 00:26:15.279
in the same position that Silencer Shop, that Silencer Co.,
446
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.190
Hucks Works, once we manufacture it. the end user, it's
447
00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:20.710
going to go to a dealer before it goes to
448
00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:24.710
the end user. That makes it the dealer's problem to
449
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.880
kind of figure out the NFTR because we still have
450
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.440
to transfer between manufacturer to dealer and dealer to dealer
451
00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:34.700
through the NFTR. So there's a set process. There's not
452
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.890
a set process to get this thing out of, again,
453
00:26:37.930 --> 00:26:41.210
this illegal gun registry that the ATF is still holding
454
00:26:41.970 --> 00:26:46.089
to the individual. Now there's ways of doing this. It's,
455
00:26:47.369 --> 00:26:51.809
It's always involved letterheads and physical copies. They're starting to
456
00:26:51.829 --> 00:26:56.569
look at it, allowing emails and things. But we don't
457
00:26:56.609 --> 00:27:00.630
know how the ATF is going to work with this yet.
458
00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:01.990
And bottom line is you want to do it the
459
00:27:02.029 --> 00:27:03.210
right way. Yep.
460
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:07.750
And nobody knows. As soon as this happened, I saw
461
00:27:07.789 --> 00:27:11.009
the injunction happen. I knew that there's going to be
462
00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:15.480
certain states that in their laws they have NFA call.
463
00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:19.789
They specifically say NFA registration or a Form 4 or
464
00:27:19.910 --> 00:27:24.269
a tax-paid transfer, things of that nature, that then becomes
465
00:27:24.309 --> 00:27:26.970
their state law is bound to what's happening with NFA.
466
00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:32.990
And at that point, 4473 transfers don't have a Form 4,
467
00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:36.809
they don't have an NFA transfer, so those states immediately
468
00:27:36.950 --> 00:27:41.660
were excluded from being able to do this. Also, possession,
469
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:47.150
so you can't take one of those 4473s into those states.
470
00:27:47.549 --> 00:27:50.569
One of the biggest issues, especially here in Louisiana, is Mississippi.
471
00:27:50.609 --> 00:27:52.990
Mississippi is one of those states. Okay.
472
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:55.940
Which is like, I mean, a lot of people go
473
00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:58.680
just right over the line, it's an hour away or less,
474
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:02.180
and they go hunting, they go shooting, whatever. And that's
475
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:04.180
a problem if you can't take it across the state line.
476
00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:08.319
With a registered Form 4 approved tax, $ 0 tax stamp
477
00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:15.720
or the $ 200 tax stamp, it's perfectly legal. without that registration,
478
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.809
now it becomes an issue. Which Mississippi, oddly enough, they
479
00:28:19.869 --> 00:28:25.250
even have an allowance for a Mississippi made suppressor has
480
00:28:25.349 --> 00:28:28.809
no regulations. So it has to be made in the
481
00:28:28.829 --> 00:28:33.539
state of Mississippi and say made in Mississippi on it physically.
482
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.720
That's one of the statutes of the law. I don't
483
00:28:35.740 --> 00:28:40.019
know of anybody actually doing that because trying to have
484
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:44.549
that manufacturing in one location ATF looks at it like
485
00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:47.710
if the machine's out of state, the software, the materials,
486
00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:51.140
they could put interstate commerce on a lot of things.
487
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.279
But with Mississippi, they basically said, hey, state, local governments,
488
00:28:55.299 --> 00:28:57.420
we're not going to pursue this. If you have an
489
00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:01.509
in-Mississippi state suppressor, you can hunt with it, but there's
490
00:29:01.569 --> 00:29:05.890
none available that I'm aware of. But that doesn't change
491
00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:09.609
the fact that in their laws, regular suppressors or the
492
00:29:09.910 --> 00:29:13.470
other suppressors have to be Form 4 registered.
493
00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:16.670
Oh, geez, Joe. You're going to freak people out. They're
494
00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:17.940
going to be like, I don't know. I thought it
495
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.960
was all easy, but it is easier now. But because
496
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.640
you've been there and done that for so long, I
497
00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:28.180
know you have stories. I know you have stories from customers.
498
00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:32.269
You've seen it all. And we've got to get into
499
00:29:32.289 --> 00:29:38.990
that after this. The next evolution of Colt's established carbine platform,
500
00:29:39.349 --> 00:29:46.900
the EPR blends proven TDP components with certified mil-spec materials, coatings, finishes,
501
00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:51.440
and proprietary processes, ensuring every Colt EPR2 is built to
502
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:56.890
professional standards for reliable performance across a wide range of conditions.
503
00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:03.529
Several different configurations, for the enhanced patrol rifle from Colt. Shh,
504
00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:08.269
go quiet with Remington's subsonic rifle ammunition, designed for rifle
505
00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:11.940
shooters who want quieter performance and enjoy shooting with a suppressor.
506
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.779
Operating at subsonic velocities, this ammo eliminates the loud sonic crack,
507
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.809
making it perfect for shooting in noise-sensitive areas tactical training,
508
00:30:21.150 --> 00:30:24.029
or just a day of plinking. The reduced velocity also
509
00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:29.099
minimizes recoil, offering better control and faster follow-up shots, making
510
00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:33.059
it ideal for situations where stealth and accuracy are paramount.
511
00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:37.519
See more on Remington's website on subsonic ammunition from Big Green.
512
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:40.539
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513
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514
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This customizable stock system gives hunters and shooters tool-free adjustment
515
00:30:50.609 --> 00:30:53.569
for length of pull and comb height, helping you achieve
516
00:30:53.609 --> 00:30:57.410
a more natural fit and better shooting comfort. Visit Savage
517
00:30:57.509 --> 00:31:00.039
Arms today to find your new 110 and learn how
518
00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.259
the new AccuFit V2 can help you shoot with greater
519
00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:11.400
confidence and consistency. Okay Joe, so worst suppressor screw-up that
520
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.160
you've seen? I know you've seen a bunch of stuff.
521
00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:14.180
The scariest?
522
00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:14.960
Yeah.
523
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.400
This actually involves one of our suppressors. And like I said,
524
00:31:20.420 --> 00:31:25.980
we make and manufacture a future-proof system. Very rarely do
525
00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:29.670
we have issues we can't get up and running in five, 10,
526
00:31:29.670 --> 00:31:32.819
15 minutes. Warranty we get it in often can get
527
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.990
it same day. Well, we have one suppressor that is
528
00:31:36.170 --> 00:31:38.529
the one and only suppressor that we've had a full
529
00:31:39.289 --> 00:31:44.410
destruction to where it was irreparable. So this gentleman has
530
00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:50.549
a 4570. and most. 45- 70s are threaded 5.8s. He also
531
00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:55.529
has a. 30 cal rifle that is threaded 5.8s. Can
532
00:31:55.569 --> 00:32:00.160
was perfectly designed for. 45- 70, good to go. But he
533
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:04.440
made one small error, and he put the. 30 cal 5.8s
534
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.279
brake on his. 45- 70. Oh, so he.
535
00:32:07.339 --> 00:32:09.200
Had the right suppressor but the wrong brake.
536
00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:14.230
Right gun, right ammo, right suppressor, wrong brake. It's marked
537
00:32:14.329 --> 00:32:18.410
on it, says 30, five eighths by 24. But in
538
00:32:18.450 --> 00:32:20.319
the heat of the moment, I've seen people run 308
539
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.910
through 556 cans. And again, our cans are very robust.
540
00:32:23.930 --> 00:32:26.380
They can typically handle it. And if not, then a
541
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.599
few parts replacement. The problem with this is our brakes
542
00:32:30.819 --> 00:32:38.759
are very hard, 4140. The lead bullets jacketed going very slow.
543
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:41.980
It's not enough to just punch through the brake. So
544
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.609
when he fired this, the bullet hit the brake, stopped
545
00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:48.970
in the brake, snapped the front of the brake off
546
00:32:49.210 --> 00:32:52.710
and continued carrying the front of the brake and the
547
00:32:52.750 --> 00:32:56.329
bullet through the can. And at that point there was
548
00:32:56.390 --> 00:33:00.150
enough energy where it expanded the core and it split
549
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:02.990
the tube and then continued out the front. Now, had
550
00:33:03.009 --> 00:33:07.490
it just, had it gone through anything else, the lead,
551
00:33:07.549 --> 00:33:09.970
the cans are designed to be able to handle a
552
00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:14.119
full bullet strike and still be repairable. In this particular case,
553
00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:17.339
it's the only one we've ever had that had an issue.
554
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.799
It split the external tube.
555
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:23.279
It turned it into, it looks like somebody took a
556
00:33:23.380 --> 00:33:25.019
toilet paper tube and unwound it.
557
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:30.049
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, 45-70, you're talking about
558
00:33:30.069 --> 00:33:33.690
a 300 or 400 grain bullet. There's a lot of mass.
559
00:33:33.690 --> 00:33:36.269
550 grains in this one. Are you serious? It was
560
00:33:36.329 --> 00:33:37.069
a big, big dude.
561
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:38.930
Oh, God.
562
00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:40.309
Yeah, that's a lot. Actually, I think it was a
563
00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:43.720
480 grain, maybe a DGX round. Okay, okay. It was
564
00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:44.460
a big round.
565
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.519
Yeah, that's a lot of energy. Golly.
566
00:33:48.220 --> 00:33:51.200
And unfortunately, so that particular can can be assembled two
567
00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:55.240
different directions. Had he, whenever last time he cleaned it
568
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.519
and put it back together, had he assembled it how
569
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.759
we normally do, we put our registered information engraving closer
570
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.319
to the firearm because there's much less potential issues. But
571
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.680
when he put it back together, had it actually flipped around,
572
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:12.139
all the engraving and registration process was up front. And
573
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.170
part of the split was right through the engraving. I mean,
574
00:34:14.829 --> 00:34:19.110
it's done. But thankfully, $ 200 tax stamp's gone away. We've
575
00:34:19.130 --> 00:34:21.230
got a new one sitting there and roll out with
576
00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:21.539
a new one.
577
00:34:21.829 --> 00:34:23.710
Do you guys put that up on the wall?
578
00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:26.059
Yeah, this one will be on the wall. It'll be
579
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:30.679
right next to a 5.56 gun that had 300 blackouts
580
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:31.139
after it.
581
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.360
All right, that's a really common one. Describe what happens.
582
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:41.590
So headspace is typically based off the shoulder of the casing.
583
00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:45.570
In the case of a lot of 300 blackout, especially
584
00:34:45.650 --> 00:34:52.230
supersonic blackout, it can headspace off the bullet. Most ammo designers,
585
00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:56.130
gun designers, they've made their ammo to where it won't
586
00:34:56.289 --> 00:34:59.630
close and typically will be harder to fire. So if
587
00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:03.070
you do this, you've had to have like pounded it
588
00:35:03.230 --> 00:35:06.929
in or hit the forward assist. But sometimes there's certain
589
00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:10.010
manufacturers that have a bullet that will load and will fire.
590
00:35:10.429 --> 00:35:14.289
And if you take a 308 bullet and try and
591
00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:18.670
stuff it down a 224 bore, it elongates the bullet,
592
00:35:18.750 --> 00:35:21.329
pressure goes up. Oh, it still tries to make it
593
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.630
through there. Typically, it doesn't make it to the gas
594
00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:27.110
port or it stops at the gas port. But all
595
00:35:27.170 --> 00:35:30.929
that energy, all that explosion is directed back through the
596
00:35:30.969 --> 00:35:32.880
gun towards the shooter out the bottom.
597
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:39.880
Magazine blows out. Yeah, just a pro tip for everybody listening.
598
00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:44.219
Do not force anything. I mean, look, I can raise
599
00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.500
my hand and go, I've tried to do it. Unbeknownst
600
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.590
to me, I was like, what's up with this? And
601
00:35:49.610 --> 00:35:52.949
you go, oh gosh, this is a 5.56 gun and
602
00:35:52.989 --> 00:35:56.730
I'm trying to look 300 blackout. And you realize it
603
00:35:56.969 --> 00:36:00.969
because you go, this is acting weird. Don't force it.
604
00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:04.940
Don't jam it in. Don't slam the forward assist or whatever.
605
00:36:05.500 --> 00:36:07.719
Stop what you're doing. Look at the mag. Look at
606
00:36:07.780 --> 00:36:10.380
your ammo. Think about what gun this is. When you
607
00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:13.349
have a bunch of, AR style guns laying out on
608
00:36:13.369 --> 00:36:15.320
the table, it's easy to screw it up.
609
00:36:15.769 --> 00:36:19.110
Especially in a hunting situation. I'm not a big fan
610
00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:22.429
of the forward assist. It's great in military realm where
611
00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:24.570
if I need that last round, I got to get
612
00:36:24.610 --> 00:36:30.130
that round fired. In most hunting scenarios, even self-defense situations,
613
00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:34.170
we have a lot more freedom with it. So that
614
00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:37.869
forward assist isn't a big benefit. I've seen more negative
615
00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:42.210
use from that forward assist. But when we're talking about
616
00:36:42.210 --> 00:36:47.190
300 blackout, keeping separation, a lot of people use 300 blackout, 556,
617
00:36:47.190 --> 00:36:50.889
308 for pig hunting and night shooting. And one of
618
00:36:50.909 --> 00:36:55.199
the problems is if you have your mags marked 300
619
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.900
blackout and your buddy has 556, under nods, night vision, thermals,
620
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:01.460
you can't see that difference.
621
00:37:01.539 --> 00:37:01.739
Yep.
622
00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:05.440
So what I've actually started doing is all my 300
623
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.039
blackout mags, they're wrapped with that metallic tape.
624
00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:09.780
Nice.
625
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:12.599
That you use for the air conditioning metallic tape.
626
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:13.420
Yeah.
627
00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:16.300
You can see that because there'll be a thermal difference.
628
00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:20.260
There'll be a reflective difference under nods. And that's what
629
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:20.699
I use.
630
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.739
And you can feel it too, probably too, right? I mean,
631
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:25.559
just there's a little tactile like, oh, this is my
632
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.260
taped wrapped mag, right?
633
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:29.699
And it's a little bit different. Some people like to
634
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:33.480
use duct tape. But again, everybody ducts tapes mags.
635
00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:33.860
Yeah.
636
00:37:34.099 --> 00:37:37.539
And when under night vision, red duct tape, black duct tape,
637
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:41.030
green duct tape all look the same. But that reflective,
638
00:37:41.110 --> 00:37:45.230
shiny silver looks different from anything else. So that's the
639
00:37:45.250 --> 00:37:49.039
solution I've come up with to kind of keep that
640
00:37:49.059 --> 00:37:53.059
from happening. Because I do use 300 blackout significantly.
641
00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:55.079
Yeah, everybody does. It's great.
642
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.920
But when that catastrophic explosion happens, it can be pretty dangerous. Luckily,
643
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.750
in this case, the customer was perfectly fine. Had a
644
00:38:05.769 --> 00:38:09.969
little bit of carbon imprints. and a little bit of
645
00:38:10.010 --> 00:38:13.230
brass in their hands, and a couple little splashes on
646
00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:16.630
their cheek. But thankfully, they were totally fine. I've seen
647
00:38:16.670 --> 00:38:20.710
it happen to where there's much more damage, full cuts,
648
00:38:20.769 --> 00:38:22.710
but thankfully, all the ones I've seen, people have been
649
00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:23.570
wearing eye protection.
650
00:38:23.730 --> 00:38:26.670
Gotta wear eye pro. You've got to. I mean, it's
651
00:38:26.690 --> 00:38:28.289
one of those things, you could screw up a lot
652
00:38:28.329 --> 00:38:32.829
of things, but the eyes are not forgiving. You get
653
00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:35.949
something happens there, what are you gonna do? Random question
654
00:38:35.989 --> 00:38:40.409
for you, what's worse? Losing the tax stamp or misplacing
655
00:38:40.449 --> 00:38:41.590
the suppressor altogether?
656
00:38:41.610 --> 00:38:44.420
I think misplacing the suppressor is going to be the
657
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:47.739
big deal. You can always get a replacement. Worst case,
658
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.340
you can send a request to the ATF to get
659
00:38:50.380 --> 00:38:53.300
a certified copy. You're never going to get that replacement stamp.
660
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.340
These days with the digital stamps, you can just reprint
661
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.429
it again. But in the old days, if you had
662
00:38:58.449 --> 00:39:00.710
a physical stamp, you can always request it and there'll
663
00:39:00.730 --> 00:39:02.869
be a certified copy. It's like this is a certified
664
00:39:02.909 --> 00:39:05.760
copy of your stamp and you're good to go.
665
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.059
I guess that all could be changing, too. I mean,
666
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:09.820
what do we even have a tax stamp for if
667
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:10.559
there's no tax?
668
00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:15.989
Well, currently, again, because of the things with Louisiana hunting
669
00:39:16.050 --> 00:39:22.250
laws and statutes, Mississippi, Colorado, Alaska, we're recommending if you're
670
00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.530
going anywhere, go ahead and do the tax stamp. We're
671
00:39:24.550 --> 00:39:28.599
seeing form for transfers right now in Hours Wow and
672
00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:30.719
maybe one or two days in a lot of cases
673
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.079
even what trusts are seeing well under a week. Okay,
674
00:39:34.179 --> 00:39:37.599
because there is So that at the start of this
675
00:39:37.659 --> 00:39:41.090
I believe there's around six point six million NFA registered
676
00:39:41.110 --> 00:39:44.570
suppressors It may be up a little bit more because
677
00:39:44.590 --> 00:39:48.570
a few people are still doing form force. Mm-hmm, but
678
00:39:48.690 --> 00:39:51.989
I'm betting that By the time this airs, we'll be
679
00:39:52.050 --> 00:39:53.769
at 7 million suppressors out.
680
00:39:53.690 --> 00:39:56.150
In the wild. That feels like common use to me, Joe.
681
00:39:56.650 --> 00:40:00.150
It's been common use after, I believe, about 100,000 units.
682
00:40:00.730 --> 00:40:03.309
So I think we hit common use somewhere back in
683
00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:07.489
maybe 1963 or something.
684
00:40:07.829 --> 00:40:12.769
Yeah, it's in common use, which, you know, why do
685
00:40:12.909 --> 00:40:16.900
Ryan and Joe keep saying that phrase? Because it matters.
686
00:40:16.940 --> 00:40:20.889
Yeah, there's a legal determination on it. But unfortunately... It's
687
00:40:20.949 --> 00:40:23.219
tied to a rule. That's model law.
688
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.679
Yeah, yeah.
689
00:40:24.739 --> 00:40:26.019
So it can be interpreted.
690
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.420
Man, thanks for hanging out with us. It's the world
691
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:33.280
of silencers and suppressors and manufacturing and NFA. It's a jungle,
692
00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:35.739
but hopefully it's getting a little bit easier. It's certainly
693
00:40:35.780 --> 00:40:39.349
getting faster. It's getting a little bit cheaper, you know,
694
00:40:39.349 --> 00:40:43.090
$ 200 less. Joe Moe, I told my kids I was
695
00:40:43.110 --> 00:40:44.849
having you on with me today and they were like,
696
00:40:45.579 --> 00:40:48.199
Joe Moe, is that his real name? And I was like,
697
00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:50.019
I think it is. I don't know, actually. I don't
698
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.559
know if he just made it up for being famous.
699
00:40:52.949 --> 00:40:54.409
Is that your real name, Joe?
700
00:40:54.449 --> 00:40:58.050
Given name is Joseph Moe, but it was my grandfather's name.
701
00:40:58.230 --> 00:40:58.469
Yeah.
702
00:40:58.670 --> 00:41:01.690
And the one I'm proud of. And Joseph's always shortened
703
00:41:01.769 --> 00:41:02.530
to Joe.
704
00:41:02.730 --> 00:41:02.909
Yeah.
705
00:41:03.110 --> 00:41:06.550
A lot of the time I was always Jose, too.
706
00:41:06.750 --> 00:41:08.409
But Joe Moe, that's it.
707
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:09.840
M-E-A-U-X. That's it.
708
00:41:10.070 --> 00:41:13.139
And the shop in Baton Rouge is Moe Guns. So
709
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.059
if you need any suppressor stuff, Or if you have
710
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:18.059
any of these questions or certain situations, if you find
711
00:41:18.099 --> 00:41:20.929
yourself in any of these in the NFA world, come
712
00:41:20.969 --> 00:41:23.070
by and see us at MoGuns, Oculus Defense, and we
713
00:41:23.090 --> 00:41:24.849
can help you out. Cool. Awesome.
714
00:41:25.329 --> 00:41:27.219
Thanks for being on with us, man. Thanks for listening.
715
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.699
Thanks for watching. We'll see you guys all next time
716
00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:30.280
on Gun Talk Nation.
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We worked to get Louisiana hunting allowed with suppressors. We
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got that. They would only go for the outlaw quadruped,
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just kind of the camel under the tent. But we
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knew we'd be able to kind of progressively go through it.
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At that, we started working on getting rid of the
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state registry. We were able to do that. And then
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a couple of years later, we got rid of the
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requirement for outlaw quadrupeds. So now all game is open
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for hunting. Except for now.
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I'm Ryan Gresham. And this... This is Gun Talk Nation.
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Gun Talk Nation is brought to you by Ruger, Leupold, Colt,
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Savage Arms, Shooting Sports Life, and Remington Ammunitions. Hey, welcome
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into Gun Talk Nation. Today on Gun Talk Nation, we're
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gonna be talking the NFA and dealing with the ATF,
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a little bit behind the scenes on that stuff. And
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to do that, we got our buddy Joe Moe on
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the show from just down the road. Joe, Ackless Defense
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is the company. You guys make suppressors. You're one of the,
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or the largest suppressor manufacturer in Louisiana, is that right?
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We're definitely the largest NFA and suppressor shop in Louisiana.
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I think probably the Gulf Coast area.
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Yeah. So we've known each other for several years. And
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because you've been doing it for so long, you said 2009,
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making suppressors, being an NFA shop. And that's kind of,
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we were saying before we started, it's like, that's like
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the OG part. Like that starts to be before it
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was super common for people buying all these silencers and suppressors.
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And so you've kind of been there and done that
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and seen things change over the years. But let's start here.
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Atlas Defense. Talk about what do you guys do and
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how do you do it differently?
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So we're a manufacturer. We are based in Baton Rouge.
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Whenever I got into the gun world, NFA world, suppressors
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weren't really that common. They were known about, but they
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were hard to get, especially in Louisiana. They were very
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hard to get because there was a bunch of extra
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steps because Louisiana had their own state NFA registry, which
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was absolutely miserable. And I didn't realize how miserable it
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was going to be until I started manufacturing as our
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numbers started getting bigger. But we designed things and developed
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things for long-term use. Because when I got into it,
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we were waiting 18, 16, almost two years for an approval.
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When we get it, the suppressor's already out of date.
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There's newer technology out there. We're stuck with this for life.
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So whenever I started designing suppressors, we went for a
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future-proof concept. So all of our suppressors can always be upgraded,
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whether that's lighter, quieter, faster, cheaper, everything. Is that a.
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Case of the serialized part, you can swap everything else out?
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That's exactly it. Okay. So we're the innovators, and if
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you see a lot of that technology in some of
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the other cans out there, That's more than likely we've
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either designed it or we're manufacturing parts or maybe even
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manufacturing the whole silencer for it. We're an OEM manufacturer.
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We manufacture not under just Atlas Defense, but other suppressor
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and NFA brands.
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Which is common in the gun world.
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Very common.
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It's not really even a dig on people. There are
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gun companies who other people make their guns. There are
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suppressor companies where they contract out the manufacturing of the suppressors, right?
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I mean, this is scopes and binos and all kinds
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of things. This is very common.
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In the suppressor world, the vast majority of suppressors are
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made by other people. And we're just one of the,
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we're one of those OEM companies. We're one of the
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originators with designs and concepts and technology. We kind of
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keep a lot of things in our pocket. So if
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somebody comes up, it's like, hey, I've got something. Let's
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build off of there. Of course, as Atlas Defense, For
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that brand, we keep the best stuff for ourselves. We've
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got some pretty good stuff.
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So you've been dealing with this for so long. You
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kind of teased it. Talk about the process of how
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it's changed over the years and really talk about how difficult,
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what was the process like back 15, 17 years ago?
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Well, the NFA world was dark art until around 96, 98,
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2000 when the internet really started to become prevalent uh
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it was back shop secrets like hey you want a
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suppressor you want a machine gun right but the prices
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like especially on transferable machine guns was a kind of
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a slow rise it's a fixed fixed market suppressors oh
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those are dangerous they make guns silent which in in
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fact that they don't uh they're still significant report even
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on some of the quietest suppressors Now we do manufacture
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the quietest suppressor in existence.
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Okay, that's a big claim. Let's get to that later, yeah.
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The internet really broke the information to people and you
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started seeing a really rapid rise in NFA exposure around
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2004 all the way up to 2009, which is when
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my first exposure into an actual FFL and becoming a
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licensee and building things there. And suppressors are super neat.
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Let's build some very simple suppressors. made some, now let's
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register them. How do we do that? Well, first, we
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can't do a Form 2, which is typical. A manufacturer
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would register a Form 2. It's a notification to the ATF. Well,
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in Louisiana, prior to 2011, we had to notify the
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state police, their public safety department, basically the guys that
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do public safety, also the concealed carry weapons. They also
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had the state registry. So we had to send hard
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copies of the registration of the manufacturing notification to the state,
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get approval from the state, which could take weeks, if
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not months, get them back to us. Once we have that,
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then we could submit a form to the ATF with
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a copy of that form. After that, then the ATF
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would approve it and put it into our registry for sale.
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So the NFTR, the National Firearms Transaction Record, They added
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another letter apparently in the last three years, but it
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will always be the NFTR to me. So once that
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number is in our inventory or an individual's inventory, that's
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the registration of the tax payment, not a registration of
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a firearm, the registration of a tax payment. So once
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it's there in Louisiana at that time, now we could
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look for a buyer or to sell or to transfer
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it out to another dealer. So we would have that inventory.
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We would find a buyer, individual out of state transfer,
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another dealer or whatnot. And we had to send a
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permission slip to the state police again. Hey, we want
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to do this form three, this transfer from us to
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somewhere else.
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Like us as the manufacturer to someone buying this thing.
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Correct. And then we'd wait for that in triplicate. We
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get it back. We would then submit it again to
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the ATF to wait for the actual transfer. So the process,
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when we were doing these ones, twos, threes, fives at
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a time, wasn't a huge deal. But as we started
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growing and getting bigger, batches of 20, 30, 50, 100,
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100 suppressors, that's 150 pieces of paper that we had
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to submit back and forth to state police, keep on record,
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and then send it to the ATF, wait for approval.
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and then we could try and sell it, and then
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to get it out of our registry again, we had
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to do the same process.
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I mean, from the time you make it to actually
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give the suppressor to an end user, I mean, it
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could be like 18 months, more than that, maybe? Or more, yeah.
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I mean, that's... At that time frame, it transitioned.
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That literally is a nightmare. That is a nightmare doing business.
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I mean, it's just absolutely crazy.
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Well, explain why there wasn't many suppressor shops in Louisiana.
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No kidding, no one wants to mess with it. Only
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crazy people, Joe.
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Yeah, only people that just, I love the industry, I
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love guns. Suppressors were really cool. Got into it and
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growing from there.
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But that's changed now, right? I mean, Louisiana has gotten
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quite a bit better. Yes. And then even, obviously, now
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we have a lot of changes in the last couple years, federally,
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dealing with NFA stuff.
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So in 2011, we worked to get Louisiana.
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Hunting allowed with suppressors. We got that. They would only
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go for the outlaw quadruped, just kind of the camel
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under the tent. But we knew we'd be able to
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kind of progressively go through it. At that, we started
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working on getting rid of the state registry. We were
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able to do that. And then a couple of years later,
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we got rid of the requirement for outlaw quadrupeds. So
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now all game is open for hunting, except for now.
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There's maybe some questions. Oh, really?
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Yeah. Well, this is a good kind of message for
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people listening and watching this is we want things to
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happen quickly, but it doesn't happen quickly. Certainly in gun laws,
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gun regulations, state regs, it takes a while. It can
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take years of plugging away at it. And honestly, there
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is kind of that plan like, okay, this is a five,
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six year plan of like, okay, we're going to get
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this passed and we're going to get this allowed. And
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then we can expand it from there because they're going
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to see that there aren't any problems with people using
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this because people will make up problems. You know, the,
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the game warden guys will like, well, this could, they
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could use this to poach. Well, they're already poaching. and
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they're poaching without silencers. So like they're just poaching with
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freaking spotlights. And then you go like this made up like,
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but what if, but what if, and you go, okay,
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now we've been doing it. The what if hasn't become
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a problem. It's kind of like concealed carry, but what if?
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Every fender bender turns into a gunfight. Well, that hasn't
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really happened. So let's move on with the what if.
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You know, what if the air is flat?
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Well, it's the largest NFA section. I mean, there's more.
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suppressors out there than anything else. At last count, it
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was 6.6 million, which is way beyond what they deem
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as in common use. Suppressors are out there. There has
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been almost no instances of any criminal act performed with
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a silencer. Almost nobody's ever caught or really poaching with suppressors.
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It just really isn't. really isn't a thing. People don't
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go out and do it. People that own suppressors, some
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of the most law abiding people. And this is the
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same thing that's been over and over. Concealed carry people,
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people in the gun industry in general, they're law abiding,
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good citizens. And that's what we want to support. We
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have recently been thrown into what I would consider a
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nightmare situation because of how fast these things are changing.
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And I think it's a good opportunity. So recently, The
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ATF got looped into some lawsuits. There was the Jensen
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versus ATF, which is some plaintiffs versus the ATF. Basically
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calling them out like, hey, now you, the NFA is
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now an illegal gun registry. It was a pseudo tax
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roll and you just happen to have a serial number
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tied to it. We always know it was a gun registry.
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The tax was just an excuse to be able to
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legally allow it. Now that there's no tax, Now, all basis,
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all color that you thought that this was a legit
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constitutional thing is gone and out the window. So we
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knew the lawsuits were coming. We knew the result that
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was going to happen. We weren't expecting how fast and
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immediate it was going to drop. And ATF, as a
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00:12:38.250 --> 00:12:42.250
big organization, they can't pivot and come up with things
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to deal with this, nor we don't know how they're
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going to deal with it yet. So we had about
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a seven-day period to kind of spool up and get
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together with the industry and figure out how we're going
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to do it. And there's been a bunch of people
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with so many different ideas and directions to do it.
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There's not one dealer that's doing it the same way.
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Yeah, I mean, when this Jensen case broke and, you know,
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everyone's going, wait a minute, now we can just go
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buy silencers on a 4473 and, like, Take it with us.
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How does this work? And a lot of dealers were, yes,
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were excited on the gun rights side, but a lot
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of dealers are going, but we want to do this
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the right way, and we need guidance from the ATF.
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You teased the quietest silencer, and I want to talk
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00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:38.259
about that right after this break. Need to get on
225
00:13:38.299 --> 00:13:41.830
target fast? The new LCO Pro F2 Red Dot from
226
00:13:41.850 --> 00:13:46.049
Leupold was built for exactly that. Its true one-power design
227
00:13:46.090 --> 00:13:48.850
and wide field of view helps you find targets quickly.
228
00:13:49.289 --> 00:13:52.409
Four selectable reticles are available to match your mission or
229
00:13:52.470 --> 00:13:57.149
shooting style. Add crystal clear glass, 20 daylight, and 10
230
00:13:57.149 --> 00:13:59.990
night vision illumination settings, and you've got a red dot
231
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on it, so you can get a little bit more
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grip on the gun. Has a 13-round magazine, also a
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10-round magazine. So it's just been enhanced a bit. Still small,
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to watch it at shootingsportslife.com. All right, so Joe, you
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said the quietest silencer out there. And then, I mean,
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tell me about this because this is really kind of
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a a design that is, I guess, the quietest type
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of design, type of silencer. Is that right?
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Yeah. So you got, there's major suppressor designs. There's like
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a baffle stack and there's monocore. And then there's another
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technology called wipe technology. And it's, I guess, kind of
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the original earlier technology. Wipes were very popular back in
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the 70s and 80s because it's a physical seal, a
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physical barrier in the can. So wipe technology, cans have
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gotten a little bit more popular. And I think it's
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a great thing because you can get very compact, very
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quiet suppressors with it.
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And I mean, describe what a wipe is.
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All right, a wipe is a physical but flexible barrier
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that the bullet passes through, pops through, and then exits,
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seals back down, keeps the gas inside the can. That's
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what we're, all suppressors are designed to convert the the
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energy of the explosion and release it as slowly as possible.
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So you can do that with heat. You can do
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it with physical entrapment. You can do it by slowing it.
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There's Tesla valves. There's all kinds of theories and things,
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more tubes, wraps. But the wipe is a very simple
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physical barrier that literally traps the gas inside the can.
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And there's combinations of it where you have baffle cans
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or you have wipe cans. But we manufacture a can
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that has baffles and wipes. So it gets you the
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best of both worlds. It extends your lifespan and things
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like that.
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Is it kind of fair to say it's a little
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bit of like a lower tech can or the wipe system?
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I mean, because they're like little rubberized discs, right?
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The idea behind it, yeah, you could say it's old tech,
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but with... the technology of the materials, material technologies, the
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devices to hold them inside of the cans and things
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like that. It's gotten to be pretty high tech. Now
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they are a limited life product, but when you're looking
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for that absolute quiet as possible, a wipe can is
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going to be there.
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It can be crazy quiet, right? If you have a
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wipe can with like some sort of subsonic load, like
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a 300 blackout. Like it's potentially, I mean, if you had,
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I don't know, I'm just thinking about Louisiana hunting, right?
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Deer at a feeder. I mean, it's potentially, you could
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shoot a deer and the other deer don't run away, right?
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Yeah, you can do that with most suppressors because game
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animals and animals in general, they don't recognize sound. They
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don't recognize what a suppressed gunshot is. It's a little
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bit different because the report is diminished sound. very, very much.
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The supersonic flight, so the bullet, the supersonic crack happens
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off of perpendicular to the face of the bullet. So
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if you're a hundred yards down the range, the bullet
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sounds like it came from a hundred yards further down.
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So what's happening at the animal's location, it sounds like
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right there. So they don't know where to go, don't
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know where to run. So especially with pig hunting, it's
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become Suppressors have become the way to do that.
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Yeah, pigs will just start running at you. They don't
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even know where the.
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Noise came from. They will typically, with even gunshot, they
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would run away from the sound. With suppressed shot, they
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just scatter. They don't know where we're going. So you
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have pigs coming towards you, away from you, left and right.
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So it gives you many, many more chances to shoot.
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So you take the ones that are going... left and right,
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then you go to the ones that are going away
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and then you get the ones that are coming toward you.
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So you can get a lot more shots out of it.
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And that's typical with game animals. Now with an ultra
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quiet can like a wipe equipped can, and you typically
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can't use supersonic or high velocity rifle rounds with a
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wipe because it'll start the deformation, lose accuracy, can damage
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the can, can damage things like that. So it typically
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is a pistol caliber subsonic caliber kind of thing only.
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00:19:45.619 --> 00:19:48.609
Yeah, it's kind of a specific use, but like you said,
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if you're purely going for quietest possibility, the wipe cans
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are hard to beat.
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Yeah. And many of the manufacturers offer solutions for it,
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and I think Dead Air is probably one of my favorites.
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Hush Puppy has one. Gemtech, the Aurora II, is probably
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one of the the older ones. So there's lots out there,
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00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:14.559
but I think my favorite segment of it or part
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of it is when the ATF started regulating wipes as
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suppressor parts. In the past, it kind of always been
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suppressor parts, but they never really said, hey, these are
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suppressor parts, you can't have spares. They started kind of
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coming down on it, unfortunately, about eight to 10 years
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ago with as wipes started becoming more popular. But Mike Pappas,
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he's genius. It's one of my favorite videos I've ever
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watched on YouTube. One of my favorite marketing things. Dead
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Air makes some great stuff. Mike's got a great sense
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of humor. But it was right as this was happening.
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And it's a YouTube video. It starts where Mike's at
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his house or some random somewhere. He's looking at a silencer.
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No words, no audio or nothing. He just looks at his,
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I think it was a Wolfman. They have the little
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special white cat.
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And Mike is a character.
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He is an absolute character. He's great at the shows,
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just talking to him. He loves the industry. He loves suppressors,
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which is kind of cool. He just looks at the can.
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And he gets, there's a clip where it shows him
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going out to his car, driving in the car, showing
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up at the hardware store, getting out, going down the aisle,
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going to a faucet washer aisle.
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He looks.
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00:21:35.690 --> 00:21:38.670
The camera zooms in on a particular part number and
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00:21:39.109 --> 00:21:42.390
it's a faucet washer. It's not a faucet washer when
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it's in the can, but until it's in the can,
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you have not intended to change its purpose. So it's
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not a wipe yet. Gets it, it goes back to
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his car, he takes it out of the wrapper, puts
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it in the can. And then that's it. That's the
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00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.619
end of the video. No audio. But it's one of
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those things that kind of shows how ridiculous some of
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these things are. But also as a manufacturer, we have
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to comply.
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Yeah.
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But. we try and still like, we're having fun with this.
371
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Yeah, you have to. I mean, and kind of going
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back to the whole NFA and ATF and compliant thing.
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One of the things that some people know, some people
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00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.049
may not know is when you have your FFL, your
375
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federal firearms license, and then you have the SOT part,
376
00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:30.470
and then you have different, you can be an 0207,
377
00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.269
you can be a manufacturer, you have different types of
378
00:22:32.309 --> 00:22:36.250
licenses as being a, A manufacturer of silencers or firearms
379
00:22:36.289 --> 00:22:41.930
or whatever. But step one is having an FFL, having
380
00:22:41.950 --> 00:22:47.309
that license. And one of the things is the ATF
381
00:22:47.859 --> 00:22:52.180
can show up at your physical location unannounced and do
382
00:22:52.220 --> 00:22:52.839
an inspection.
383
00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:54.819
At any business hour time.
384
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.640
Has that ever happened to you?
385
00:22:56.779 --> 00:22:57.779
Oh, absolutely. All the time.
386
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:00.900
And they don't announce. They don't call first. No.
387
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:06.140
I don't believe we've ever gotten a pre-announcement call. It's like,
388
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:12.490
I think one of my favorites, really great agent, just
389
00:23:13.190 --> 00:23:16.089
showed up at 9.30, we open up at 10. But
390
00:23:16.109 --> 00:23:19.410
we're always there beforehand. He knocks on the door and
391
00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:24.539
I look and I can probably see what I look like.
392
00:23:24.579 --> 00:23:26.660
I probably had to, oh, not today.
393
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.359
Yeah, I don't have time for this. Not today.
394
00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:33.170
It was just after a Black Friday event. and one
395
00:23:33.190 --> 00:23:38.440
of our busiest weekends. Luckily, we run a pretty tight ship.
396
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.720
We have to. I mean, manufacturing and sales and things
397
00:23:40.759 --> 00:23:44.859
like that. 9.30, it's like, I'm sorry to do this today.
398
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:47.200
I'm like, it's all right. Come on in. Let's get
399
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:47.619
her going.
400
00:23:48.380 --> 00:23:50.400
I thought you were going to say, well, see, our
401
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:52.460
posted hours is 10, so you're going to have to
402
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.140
wait outside for a half hour. Well.
403
00:23:56.089 --> 00:23:59.759
Yes, technically you could do that. You could. But, again,
404
00:23:59.779 --> 00:24:02.599
you want to maintain a rapport. I mean, they're doing
405
00:24:02.619 --> 00:24:03.119
their job.
406
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:08.500
It's not combative, really. Most of these agents are good people.
407
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:13.720
Most of them are good people. They're knowledgeable. But there's
408
00:24:13.930 --> 00:24:17.849
always ways of looking at laws and interpreting them different
409
00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:21.210
ways or looking at, worst case, looking at rules. I
410
00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:25.450
hate rules. Rules are not laws.
411
00:24:25.900 --> 00:24:28.839
Because that's a lot of there's there's flexibility in how
412
00:24:28.859 --> 00:24:30.160
they apply more interpretation.
413
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:34.160
Yeah. Yeah. And then how and when and who rules
414
00:24:34.200 --> 00:24:35.980
can be rules are made to be broken. I think
415
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.400
that's it.
416
00:24:36.940 --> 00:24:37.480
Yeah. Yeah.
417
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:42.529
So the inconsistent application of them can be kind of frustrating,
418
00:24:43.430 --> 00:24:46.450
which that's why I like laws. And that's why I
419
00:24:46.509 --> 00:24:48.809
like the way that this is going for the NFA world.
420
00:24:48.869 --> 00:24:50.650
I think we were able to get some laws on
421
00:24:50.670 --> 00:24:54.170
the books to get some corrective action to get either
422
00:24:54.910 --> 00:25:00.599
suppressors out of NFA or at least reduce the requirement.
423
00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:02.779
I think worst case they're going to have to stay
424
00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:05.960
in NFA because when we talk about the injunction the
425
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.720
court case ATF versus Jensen it was about the transfer
426
00:25:11.660 --> 00:25:15.750
to the individual owners where the infringement was. As a
427
00:25:15.769 --> 00:25:19.170
manufacturer we're still bound by that and there was never
428
00:25:19.210 --> 00:25:21.930
any mention on how we do it. So these items
429
00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:24.420
are They're going in the NFA registry no matter what.
430
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:28.420
If you're buying them on 4473, they're in that NFTR,
431
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.460
and that's going to be the manufacturer's or dealer's problem
432
00:25:32.529 --> 00:25:34.109
to figure out how to get that. And that's the
433
00:25:34.220 --> 00:25:36.109
biggest thing that the ATF needs to tell us is
434
00:25:36.569 --> 00:25:37.549
how we're going to do this.
435
00:25:37.990 --> 00:25:42.589
Talk about that because right when this thing broke, whenever
436
00:25:42.630 --> 00:25:46.430
that was, weeks or months ago, there was a lot
437
00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:48.450
of excitement. It was like, we're going to go out
438
00:25:48.470 --> 00:25:51.660
and just buy silencers on 4473s But a lot of
439
00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:54.319
dealers are like, I got to get guidance on this.
440
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:57.299
And you guys got heat for that from some people.
441
00:25:57.339 --> 00:25:59.380
A lot of people did, especially the guys that wanted
442
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.970
to be super conservative. Hey, we want to know what's
443
00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:06.950
going on. We were in a, I guess, a little
444
00:26:06.990 --> 00:26:10.950
bit different situation because as a manufacturer, we're kind of
445
00:26:11.009 --> 00:26:15.279
in the same position that Silencer Shop, that Silencer Co.,
446
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:19.190
Hucks Works, once we manufacture it. the end user, it's
447
00:26:19.230 --> 00:26:20.710
going to go to a dealer before it goes to
448
00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:24.710
the end user. That makes it the dealer's problem to
449
00:26:24.759 --> 00:26:26.880
kind of figure out the NFTR because we still have
450
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:30.440
to transfer between manufacturer to dealer and dealer to dealer
451
00:26:31.019 --> 00:26:34.700
through the NFTR. So there's a set process. There's not
452
00:26:34.740 --> 00:26:37.890
a set process to get this thing out of, again,
453
00:26:37.930 --> 00:26:41.210
this illegal gun registry that the ATF is still holding
454
00:26:41.970 --> 00:26:46.089
to the individual. Now there's ways of doing this. It's,
455
00:26:47.369 --> 00:26:51.809
It's always involved letterheads and physical copies. They're starting to
456
00:26:51.829 --> 00:26:56.569
look at it, allowing emails and things. But we don't
457
00:26:56.609 --> 00:27:00.630
know how the ATF is going to work with this yet.
458
00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:01.990
And bottom line is you want to do it the
459
00:27:02.029 --> 00:27:03.210
right way. Yep.
460
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:07.750
And nobody knows. As soon as this happened, I saw
461
00:27:07.789 --> 00:27:11.009
the injunction happen. I knew that there's going to be
462
00:27:11.029 --> 00:27:15.480
certain states that in their laws they have NFA call.
463
00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:19.789
They specifically say NFA registration or a Form 4 or
464
00:27:19.910 --> 00:27:24.269
a tax-paid transfer, things of that nature, that then becomes
465
00:27:24.309 --> 00:27:26.970
their state law is bound to what's happening with NFA.
466
00:27:27.529 --> 00:27:32.990
And at that point, 4473 transfers don't have a Form 4,
467
00:27:32.990 --> 00:27:36.809
they don't have an NFA transfer, so those states immediately
468
00:27:36.950 --> 00:27:41.660
were excluded from being able to do this. Also, possession,
469
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:47.150
so you can't take one of those 4473s into those states.
470
00:27:47.549 --> 00:27:50.569
One of the biggest issues, especially here in Louisiana, is Mississippi.
471
00:27:50.609 --> 00:27:52.990
Mississippi is one of those states. Okay.
472
00:27:53.339 --> 00:27:55.940
Which is like, I mean, a lot of people go
473
00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:58.680
just right over the line, it's an hour away or less,
474
00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:02.180
and they go hunting, they go shooting, whatever. And that's
475
00:28:02.220 --> 00:28:04.180
a problem if you can't take it across the state line.
476
00:28:04.299 --> 00:28:08.319
With a registered Form 4 approved tax, $ 0 tax stamp
477
00:28:08.500 --> 00:28:15.720
or the $ 200 tax stamp, it's perfectly legal. without that registration,
478
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.809
now it becomes an issue. Which Mississippi, oddly enough, they
479
00:28:19.869 --> 00:28:25.250
even have an allowance for a Mississippi made suppressor has
480
00:28:25.349 --> 00:28:28.809
no regulations. So it has to be made in the
481
00:28:28.829 --> 00:28:33.539
state of Mississippi and say made in Mississippi on it physically.
482
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.720
That's one of the statutes of the law. I don't
483
00:28:35.740 --> 00:28:40.019
know of anybody actually doing that because trying to have
484
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:44.549
that manufacturing in one location ATF looks at it like
485
00:28:44.670 --> 00:28:47.710
if the machine's out of state, the software, the materials,
486
00:28:47.750 --> 00:28:51.140
they could put interstate commerce on a lot of things.
487
00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:55.279
But with Mississippi, they basically said, hey, state, local governments,
488
00:28:55.299 --> 00:28:57.420
we're not going to pursue this. If you have an
489
00:28:57.740 --> 00:29:01.509
in-Mississippi state suppressor, you can hunt with it, but there's
490
00:29:01.569 --> 00:29:05.890
none available that I'm aware of. But that doesn't change
491
00:29:05.930 --> 00:29:09.609
the fact that in their laws, regular suppressors or the
492
00:29:09.910 --> 00:29:13.470
other suppressors have to be Form 4 registered.
493
00:29:14.369 --> 00:29:16.670
Oh, geez, Joe. You're going to freak people out. They're
494
00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:17.940
going to be like, I don't know. I thought it
495
00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:21.960
was all easy, but it is easier now. But because
496
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.640
you've been there and done that for so long, I
497
00:29:24.700 --> 00:29:28.180
know you have stories. I know you have stories from customers.
498
00:29:28.220 --> 00:29:32.269
You've seen it all. And we've got to get into
499
00:29:32.289 --> 00:29:38.990
that after this. The next evolution of Colt's established carbine platform,
500
00:29:39.349 --> 00:29:46.900
the EPR blends proven TDP components with certified mil-spec materials, coatings, finishes,
501
00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:51.440
and proprietary processes, ensuring every Colt EPR2 is built to
502
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:56.890
professional standards for reliable performance across a wide range of conditions.
503
00:29:57.390 --> 00:30:03.529
Several different configurations, for the enhanced patrol rifle from Colt. Shh,
504
00:30:03.930 --> 00:30:08.269
go quiet with Remington's subsonic rifle ammunition, designed for rifle
505
00:30:08.289 --> 00:30:11.940
shooters who want quieter performance and enjoy shooting with a suppressor.
506
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.779
Operating at subsonic velocities, this ammo eliminates the loud sonic crack,
507
00:30:17.079 --> 00:30:20.809
making it perfect for shooting in noise-sensitive areas tactical training,
508
00:30:21.150 --> 00:30:24.029
or just a day of plinking. The reduced velocity also
509
00:30:24.089 --> 00:30:29.099
minimizes recoil, offering better control and faster follow-up shots, making
510
00:30:29.130 --> 00:30:33.059
it ideal for situations where stealth and accuracy are paramount.
511
00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:37.519
See more on Remington's website on subsonic ammunition from Big Green.
512
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:40.539
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513
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514
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This customizable stock system gives hunters and shooters tool-free adjustment
515
00:30:50.609 --> 00:30:53.569
for length of pull and comb height, helping you achieve
516
00:30:53.609 --> 00:30:57.410
a more natural fit and better shooting comfort. Visit Savage
517
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Arms today to find your new 110 and learn how
518
00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.259
the new AccuFit V2 can help you shoot with greater
519
00:31:03.339 --> 00:31:11.400
confidence and consistency. Okay Joe, so worst suppressor screw-up that
520
00:31:11.460 --> 00:31:13.160
you've seen? I know you've seen a bunch of stuff.
521
00:31:13.460 --> 00:31:14.180
The scariest?
522
00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:14.960
Yeah.
523
00:31:16.720 --> 00:31:20.400
This actually involves one of our suppressors. And like I said,
524
00:31:20.420 --> 00:31:25.980
we make and manufacture a future-proof system. Very rarely do
525
00:31:26.019 --> 00:31:29.670
we have issues we can't get up and running in five, 10,
526
00:31:29.670 --> 00:31:32.819
15 minutes. Warranty we get it in often can get
527
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:35.990
it same day. Well, we have one suppressor that is
528
00:31:36.170 --> 00:31:38.529
the one and only suppressor that we've had a full
529
00:31:39.289 --> 00:31:44.410
destruction to where it was irreparable. So this gentleman has
530
00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:50.549
a 4570. and most. 45- 70s are threaded 5.8s. He also
531
00:31:50.630 --> 00:31:55.529
has a. 30 cal rifle that is threaded 5.8s. Can
532
00:31:55.569 --> 00:32:00.160
was perfectly designed for. 45- 70, good to go. But he
533
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:04.440
made one small error, and he put the. 30 cal 5.8s
534
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.279
brake on his. 45- 70. Oh, so he.
535
00:32:07.339 --> 00:32:09.200
Had the right suppressor but the wrong brake.
536
00:32:09.339 --> 00:32:14.230
Right gun, right ammo, right suppressor, wrong brake. It's marked
537
00:32:14.329 --> 00:32:18.410
on it, says 30, five eighths by 24. But in
538
00:32:18.450 --> 00:32:20.319
the heat of the moment, I've seen people run 308
539
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:23.910
through 556 cans. And again, our cans are very robust.
540
00:32:23.930 --> 00:32:26.380
They can typically handle it. And if not, then a
541
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.599
few parts replacement. The problem with this is our brakes
542
00:32:30.819 --> 00:32:38.759
are very hard, 4140. The lead bullets jacketed going very slow.
543
00:32:38.819 --> 00:32:41.980
It's not enough to just punch through the brake. So
544
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:46.609
when he fired this, the bullet hit the brake, stopped
545
00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:48.970
in the brake, snapped the front of the brake off
546
00:32:49.210 --> 00:32:52.710
and continued carrying the front of the brake and the
547
00:32:52.750 --> 00:32:56.329
bullet through the can. And at that point there was
548
00:32:56.390 --> 00:33:00.150
enough energy where it expanded the core and it split
549
00:33:00.170 --> 00:33:02.990
the tube and then continued out the front. Now, had
550
00:33:03.009 --> 00:33:07.490
it just, had it gone through anything else, the lead,
551
00:33:07.549 --> 00:33:09.970
the cans are designed to be able to handle a
552
00:33:10.130 --> 00:33:14.119
full bullet strike and still be repairable. In this particular case,
553
00:33:14.180 --> 00:33:17.339
it's the only one we've ever had that had an issue.
554
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.799
It split the external tube.
555
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:23.279
It turned it into, it looks like somebody took a
556
00:33:23.380 --> 00:33:25.019
toilet paper tube and unwound it.
557
00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:30.049
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, 45-70, you're talking about
558
00:33:30.069 --> 00:33:33.690
a 300 or 400 grain bullet. There's a lot of mass.
559
00:33:33.690 --> 00:33:36.269
550 grains in this one. Are you serious? It was
560
00:33:36.329 --> 00:33:37.069
a big, big dude.
561
00:33:37.450 --> 00:33:38.930
Oh, God.
562
00:33:38.950 --> 00:33:40.309
Yeah, that's a lot. Actually, I think it was a
563
00:33:40.309 --> 00:33:43.720
480 grain, maybe a DGX round. Okay, okay. It was
564
00:33:43.779 --> 00:33:44.460
a big round.
565
00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:47.519
Yeah, that's a lot of energy. Golly.
566
00:33:48.220 --> 00:33:51.200
And unfortunately, so that particular can can be assembled two
567
00:33:51.220 --> 00:33:55.240
different directions. Had he, whenever last time he cleaned it
568
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:57.519
and put it back together, had he assembled it how
569
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:01.759
we normally do, we put our registered information engraving closer
570
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:05.319
to the firearm because there's much less potential issues. But
571
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:07.680
when he put it back together, had it actually flipped around,
572
00:34:08.219 --> 00:34:12.139
all the engraving and registration process was up front. And
573
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:14.170
part of the split was right through the engraving. I mean,
574
00:34:14.829 --> 00:34:19.110
it's done. But thankfully, $ 200 tax stamp's gone away. We've
575
00:34:19.130 --> 00:34:21.230
got a new one sitting there and roll out with
576
00:34:21.269 --> 00:34:21.539
a new one.
577
00:34:21.829 --> 00:34:23.710
Do you guys put that up on the wall?
578
00:34:24.090 --> 00:34:26.059
Yeah, this one will be on the wall. It'll be
579
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:30.679
right next to a 5.56 gun that had 300 blackouts
580
00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:31.139
after it.
581
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:35.360
All right, that's a really common one. Describe what happens.
582
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:41.590
So headspace is typically based off the shoulder of the casing.
583
00:34:42.349 --> 00:34:45.570
In the case of a lot of 300 blackout, especially
584
00:34:45.650 --> 00:34:52.230
supersonic blackout, it can headspace off the bullet. Most ammo designers,
585
00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:56.130
gun designers, they've made their ammo to where it won't
586
00:34:56.289 --> 00:34:59.630
close and typically will be harder to fire. So if
587
00:34:59.730 --> 00:35:03.070
you do this, you've had to have like pounded it
588
00:35:03.230 --> 00:35:06.929
in or hit the forward assist. But sometimes there's certain
589
00:35:06.969 --> 00:35:10.010
manufacturers that have a bullet that will load and will fire.
590
00:35:10.429 --> 00:35:14.289
And if you take a 308 bullet and try and
591
00:35:14.389 --> 00:35:18.670
stuff it down a 224 bore, it elongates the bullet,
592
00:35:18.750 --> 00:35:21.329
pressure goes up. Oh, it still tries to make it
593
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:24.630
through there. Typically, it doesn't make it to the gas
594
00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:27.110
port or it stops at the gas port. But all
595
00:35:27.170 --> 00:35:30.929
that energy, all that explosion is directed back through the
596
00:35:30.969 --> 00:35:32.880
gun towards the shooter out the bottom.
597
00:35:33.239 --> 00:35:39.880
Magazine blows out. Yeah, just a pro tip for everybody listening.
598
00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:44.219
Do not force anything. I mean, look, I can raise
599
00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:47.500
my hand and go, I've tried to do it. Unbeknownst
600
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.590
to me, I was like, what's up with this? And
601
00:35:49.610 --> 00:35:52.949
you go, oh gosh, this is a 5.56 gun and
602
00:35:52.989 --> 00:35:56.730
I'm trying to look 300 blackout. And you realize it
603
00:35:56.969 --> 00:36:00.969
because you go, this is acting weird. Don't force it.
604
00:36:01.010 --> 00:36:04.940
Don't jam it in. Don't slam the forward assist or whatever.
605
00:36:05.500 --> 00:36:07.719
Stop what you're doing. Look at the mag. Look at
606
00:36:07.780 --> 00:36:10.380
your ammo. Think about what gun this is. When you
607
00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:13.349
have a bunch of, AR style guns laying out on
608
00:36:13.369 --> 00:36:15.320
the table, it's easy to screw it up.
609
00:36:15.769 --> 00:36:19.110
Especially in a hunting situation. I'm not a big fan
610
00:36:19.130 --> 00:36:22.429
of the forward assist. It's great in military realm where
611
00:36:22.630 --> 00:36:24.570
if I need that last round, I got to get
612
00:36:24.610 --> 00:36:30.130
that round fired. In most hunting scenarios, even self-defense situations,
613
00:36:30.829 --> 00:36:34.170
we have a lot more freedom with it. So that
614
00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:37.869
forward assist isn't a big benefit. I've seen more negative
615
00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:42.210
use from that forward assist. But when we're talking about
616
00:36:42.210 --> 00:36:47.190
300 blackout, keeping separation, a lot of people use 300 blackout, 556,
617
00:36:47.190 --> 00:36:50.889
308 for pig hunting and night shooting. And one of
618
00:36:50.909 --> 00:36:55.199
the problems is if you have your mags marked 300
619
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:59.900
blackout and your buddy has 556, under nods, night vision, thermals,
620
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:01.460
you can't see that difference.
621
00:37:01.539 --> 00:37:01.739
Yep.
622
00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:05.440
So what I've actually started doing is all my 300
623
00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:09.039
blackout mags, they're wrapped with that metallic tape.
624
00:37:09.579 --> 00:37:09.780
Nice.
625
00:37:09.900 --> 00:37:12.599
That you use for the air conditioning metallic tape.
626
00:37:12.679 --> 00:37:13.420
Yeah.
627
00:37:13.900 --> 00:37:16.300
You can see that because there'll be a thermal difference.
628
00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:20.260
There'll be a reflective difference under nods. And that's what
629
00:37:20.340 --> 00:37:20.699
I use.
630
00:37:20.820 --> 00:37:22.739
And you can feel it too, probably too, right? I mean,
631
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:25.559
just there's a little tactile like, oh, this is my
632
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:27.260
taped wrapped mag, right?
633
00:37:27.420 --> 00:37:29.699
And it's a little bit different. Some people like to
634
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:33.480
use duct tape. But again, everybody ducts tapes mags.
635
00:37:33.619 --> 00:37:33.860
Yeah.
636
00:37:34.099 --> 00:37:37.539
And when under night vision, red duct tape, black duct tape,
637
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:41.030
green duct tape all look the same. But that reflective,
638
00:37:41.110 --> 00:37:45.230
shiny silver looks different from anything else. So that's the
639
00:37:45.250 --> 00:37:49.039
solution I've come up with to kind of keep that
640
00:37:49.059 --> 00:37:53.059
from happening. Because I do use 300 blackout significantly.
641
00:37:53.420 --> 00:37:55.079
Yeah, everybody does. It's great.
642
00:37:55.559 --> 00:38:01.920
But when that catastrophic explosion happens, it can be pretty dangerous. Luckily,
643
00:38:01.980 --> 00:38:05.750
in this case, the customer was perfectly fine. Had a
644
00:38:05.769 --> 00:38:09.969
little bit of carbon imprints. and a little bit of
645
00:38:10.010 --> 00:38:13.230
brass in their hands, and a couple little splashes on
646
00:38:13.250 --> 00:38:16.630
their cheek. But thankfully, they were totally fine. I've seen
647
00:38:16.670 --> 00:38:20.710
it happen to where there's much more damage, full cuts,
648
00:38:20.769 --> 00:38:22.710
but thankfully, all the ones I've seen, people have been
649
00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:23.570
wearing eye protection.
650
00:38:23.730 --> 00:38:26.670
Gotta wear eye pro. You've got to. I mean, it's
651
00:38:26.690 --> 00:38:28.289
one of those things, you could screw up a lot
652
00:38:28.329 --> 00:38:32.829
of things, but the eyes are not forgiving. You get
653
00:38:32.869 --> 00:38:35.949
something happens there, what are you gonna do? Random question
654
00:38:35.989 --> 00:38:40.409
for you, what's worse? Losing the tax stamp or misplacing
655
00:38:40.449 --> 00:38:41.590
the suppressor altogether?
656
00:38:41.610 --> 00:38:44.420
I think misplacing the suppressor is going to be the
657
00:38:44.460 --> 00:38:47.739
big deal. You can always get a replacement. Worst case,
658
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.340
you can send a request to the ATF to get
659
00:38:50.380 --> 00:38:53.300
a certified copy. You're never going to get that replacement stamp.
660
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:56.340
These days with the digital stamps, you can just reprint
661
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.429
it again. But in the old days, if you had
662
00:38:58.449 --> 00:39:00.710
a physical stamp, you can always request it and there'll
663
00:39:00.730 --> 00:39:02.869
be a certified copy. It's like this is a certified
664
00:39:02.909 --> 00:39:05.760
copy of your stamp and you're good to go.
665
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.059
I guess that all could be changing, too. I mean,
666
00:39:08.079 --> 00:39:09.820
what do we even have a tax stamp for if
667
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:10.559
there's no tax?
668
00:39:10.940 --> 00:39:15.989
Well, currently, again, because of the things with Louisiana hunting
669
00:39:16.050 --> 00:39:22.250
laws and statutes, Mississippi, Colorado, Alaska, we're recommending if you're
670
00:39:22.269 --> 00:39:24.530
going anywhere, go ahead and do the tax stamp. We're
671
00:39:24.550 --> 00:39:28.599
seeing form for transfers right now in Hours Wow and
672
00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:30.719
maybe one or two days in a lot of cases
673
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.079
even what trusts are seeing well under a week. Okay,
674
00:39:34.179 --> 00:39:37.599
because there is So that at the start of this
675
00:39:37.659 --> 00:39:41.090
I believe there's around six point six million NFA registered
676
00:39:41.110 --> 00:39:44.570
suppressors It may be up a little bit more because
677
00:39:44.590 --> 00:39:48.570
a few people are still doing form force. Mm-hmm, but
678
00:39:48.690 --> 00:39:51.989
I'm betting that By the time this airs, we'll be
679
00:39:52.050 --> 00:39:53.769
at 7 million suppressors out.
680
00:39:53.690 --> 00:39:56.150
In the wild. That feels like common use to me, Joe.
681
00:39:56.650 --> 00:40:00.150
It's been common use after, I believe, about 100,000 units.
682
00:40:00.730 --> 00:40:03.309
So I think we hit common use somewhere back in
683
00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:07.489
maybe 1963 or something.
684
00:40:07.829 --> 00:40:12.769
Yeah, it's in common use, which, you know, why do
685
00:40:12.909 --> 00:40:16.900
Ryan and Joe keep saying that phrase? Because it matters.
686
00:40:16.940 --> 00:40:20.889
Yeah, there's a legal determination on it. But unfortunately... It's
687
00:40:20.949 --> 00:40:23.219
tied to a rule. That's model law.
688
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.679
Yeah, yeah.
689
00:40:24.739 --> 00:40:26.019
So it can be interpreted.
690
00:40:26.460 --> 00:40:28.420
Man, thanks for hanging out with us. It's the world
691
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:33.280
of silencers and suppressors and manufacturing and NFA. It's a jungle,
692
00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:35.739
but hopefully it's getting a little bit easier. It's certainly
693
00:40:35.780 --> 00:40:39.349
getting faster. It's getting a little bit cheaper, you know,
694
00:40:39.349 --> 00:40:43.090
$ 200 less. Joe Moe, I told my kids I was
695
00:40:43.110 --> 00:40:44.849
having you on with me today and they were like,
696
00:40:45.579 --> 00:40:48.199
Joe Moe, is that his real name? And I was like,
697
00:40:48.340 --> 00:40:50.019
I think it is. I don't know, actually. I don't
698
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:52.559
know if he just made it up for being famous.
699
00:40:52.949 --> 00:40:54.409
Is that your real name, Joe?
700
00:40:54.449 --> 00:40:58.050
Given name is Joseph Moe, but it was my grandfather's name.
701
00:40:58.230 --> 00:40:58.469
Yeah.
702
00:40:58.670 --> 00:41:01.690
And the one I'm proud of. And Joseph's always shortened
703
00:41:01.769 --> 00:41:02.530
to Joe.
704
00:41:02.730 --> 00:41:02.909
Yeah.
705
00:41:03.110 --> 00:41:06.550
A lot of the time I was always Jose, too.
706
00:41:06.750 --> 00:41:08.409
But Joe Moe, that's it.
707
00:41:08.820 --> 00:41:09.840
M-E-A-U-X. That's it.
708
00:41:10.070 --> 00:41:13.139
And the shop in Baton Rouge is Moe Guns. So
709
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:15.059
if you need any suppressor stuff, Or if you have
710
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:18.059
any of these questions or certain situations, if you find
711
00:41:18.099 --> 00:41:20.929
yourself in any of these in the NFA world, come
712
00:41:20.969 --> 00:41:23.070
by and see us at MoGuns, Oculus Defense, and we
713
00:41:23.090 --> 00:41:24.849
can help you out. Cool. Awesome.
714
00:41:25.329 --> 00:41:27.219
Thanks for being on with us, man. Thanks for listening.
715
00:41:27.420 --> 00:41:29.699
Thanks for watching. We'll see you guys all next time
716
00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:30.280
on Gun Talk Nation.
