Brian Allen Interview - We Wont talk AI Ep 3.0

Brian Allen: Not everything is supposed to be for you. The the more people you appeal to, the more like generic that thing is gonna be.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: so we're here today with Brian Allen. Brian Allen looks at pinball machines that already have art and says, Cool, now watch this. Flyland Designs,
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Pennsylvania. Pedretti Tales of the Arabian Knights 30th, American Pinball Circus Voltaire Ringmaster, licensed alternative backglasses before that, and gritty before that. He calls himself a cover band, which might be the most honest flex in the hobby. The original artists stay right where they are. Brian shows up with a second set that makes you stop walking past the machine. He will not touch AI. And he says he could fill an entire arcade with original projects that never shipped.
Brian Allen: That's probably true, yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: You can buy the 1996 translate. You can buy a fake. What you're paying him for is a real person that sits down and draws the thing from a new perspective with a new vision. I'm Aaron. I'm a fan of the work and where it's going. This is grown up adjacent. Brian Allen, the the the unwritten intro is I think that you are in a position as an artist, an in real life artist, to defend what is organic and real about art in the pinball scene. And I love it. I want it, I can't wait to see more. So
Brian Allen: Thanks, Aaron.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: yeah, and you've been involved with it, sounds like the right. projects. it's always tough with a podcast because you know some people might have heard this before or this before. Let's start fresh and talk about where you are today with what you're doing or want to do and what what is in the future for us? What's in the future for, you know, Brian Allen and Flyland designs.
Brian Allen: man, I used to know. well I've been doing this a long time now. I I started professionally in two thousand four. So it's like twenty two years of doing professional art. I've been doing pinball art probably since two thousand and I wanna say nineteen. So so so like seven years. And I've been doing freelance full time. Since two thousand twelve. That's like twelve years. I never really had like a five year plan because every year I I'm working on something different, different industries pop up. And I I'd be for for example, I used to do a lot of illustrations for labels on vape packaging of all things, like the little the little vials. I I was doing hundreds of those, and then all of a sudden laws were passed where it was like you can't have cartoon images on those because that appeals to kids, which you know, I I I agree with that. but so like something like that just disappears. So it's that's sort of my whole career has been in any freelance artist's career is like every year or every couple years you kind of have to like reinvent yourself and figure out what your new lane is. And I think I owe a lot of my success to just I I have I have my hand in a lot of different pots. but I basically try to do a little bit of everything so that when one path ends, another one opens up. and the pinball path started when Andrew Highway hired me to do a backlash for the the alien pinball machine. I didn't know at the time that he was two weeks from bankruptcy, which is like that's literally that's not an exaggeration. and when that happened, unfortunately the backlash never made it on the machine, but a lot of people started reaching out to me asking if they could get a print of it. And then that just led to one thing after another to eventually like pin the pinball art that I'm doing today. Where my future is, because of AI, I really have no idea. I feel very fortunate in that I'm old enough that I'm I'm close enough to retirement and I've done well enough that I'm not too worried about it. But I feel so bad for the next generation of artists, people who are just starting. I I have no idea what to tell them. and it's already affecting me a lot. And I I don't know how deep you want to go into AI. Maybe we could talk about it a bit later. 'cause that's yeah, go ahead. Yeah, let's come back to that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Well, I I do let let let's come let's come back to that because I think we can have a good conversation on that. Let's talk about
Brian Allen: That's gonna kill the mood.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: a day in the life of so Brian Allen is a you're a family man as well. So I did meet
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: when we met at last year's expo, I I was able to meet Lisha and yourself. And so what is her
Brian Allen: Yeah, that's my wife.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: what is her role p in in your Is i is she your manager, producer? is she the brains behind the operation? How does your family
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: structure? It looks you're you have a home studio. So so paint me
Brian Allen: Yes. Yeah, that's the behind me here.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: paint paint that picture. What's it like in a day in the life of a professional illustrator and a family man? What is the studio home life like?
Brian Allen: Well we just my family just shrunk 'cause my son just went off to college a couple months ago. So that's that's been crazy. 'Cause he used to come to conventions with me to help set up and stuff. So I I miss that for sure. Leisha does a ton of stuff and it's also that's probably one of the reasons for my success is that having an assistant like that means that I can spend way more time producing, which just means more growth and and and whatnot. But Leisha will do things like all the invoicing. She also ships all the products with we have we have a friend named Bree who comes in once a week. She she and her ship all the products, which is takes a lot of time. and then she's also doing things like marketing, all kinds of stuff. And right now we're getting set up for Pinball Expo, which is our biggest pinball show of the year. and There's a ton of work to do for that all the all the time. So she's fantastic at that. And then of course she's she's also helping take my daughter to dance and like and cooking dinner and stuff and all all that stuff. So that's great.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So you're a bit of, as a a full time, it's like an acting app professional actor, but as an acting illustrator, full time illustrator. So those support systems, such as, you know, being the the Uber taxi to the kids events, you know, I have that in my household too. Is there
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: so do you notice there may be some things that you might not notice about that partnership? And when my mom passed away, it was very clear that she was the pillar keeping Keeping my dad focused and we are in a family business. It's very it was very clear. So there may be
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: some of those things, maybe once in a while you look and be like, wow, maybe she is the key to me making the right decisions or, going down the right paths with projects. So I I love to hear the story of these family businesses.
Brian Allen: Mm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: she she I've seen her at the multiple shows with you, you know, and so Briefly, I want to talk about because to keep the viewers' attention, pinball expos next week. And one thing about Pinball Expo, I treat all these expos like you're going to Disneyland or Disney World. If you were to stop at one booth and chat with, you know, it's like you are you are the booth I would recommend stopping at, the Flyland Designs booth.
Brian Allen: thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And there's there's multiple reasons, but you sell not only your products, the back glasses. The thing that I thought was the coolest, and people should bring a cardboard tube with them, the banners. You guys have those
Brian Allen: thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the cool banners, and I saw so many people flicking through them. So my recommendation go on Flyland Designs website before you go and pick what you want to buy and come and buy it from from Brian and Leisha at the Flylands booth. And you you sell so much of other stuff too.
Brian Allen: And wait, yeah, wait till you see our booth this year. We put a ton of work into it. I've I've got a whole new setup. it's it's gonna look it's gonna look awesome. And I made sure to bring a ton of new stuff this year too, because a lot of our customers we're very lucky to have a lot of repeat customers, so I'm I'm just always trying to have new stuff to to share with them and keep growing and We hopefully we don't disappoint. I'm lucky to have a lot going on at Expo this year because of you mentioned the the Totan re-release and the Circus Voltaire re-release. but I also have there's a company called Myth Pinball that does this really awesome like head to head pinball machine. Picture
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Okay.
Brian Allen: like remember the game Crossfire where you shoot marbles at each other?
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah, yeah.
Brian Allen: it's like that. But a pinball machine and I I drew the whole art package for it. And I haven't even we haven't shared any of it yet. So it he's gonna be bringing that to Expo and I'm really excited for people to see it. It's it turned out great. I'm really really proud of it. Fun game
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So
Brian Allen: too.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: so will you have those most recent projects that are gonna be some I I assume both companies, Padretti and AP will be bringing their games there, I'm sure. Will will you be with them at their booth saying hi or will you be in your area mostly?
Brian Allen: I know at I'll be on a panel with Padretti and the and the team
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: cool.
Brian Allen: there. So so that'll be fun. those guys are great. not not I won't be on the American Pinball panel. but I believe they mentioned something about American Pinball is doing some kind of like ticket giveaway or something that I'm gonna be involved in in some way. I I don't I don't remember. but but okay.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Okay. Well that they did that once before and it was pretty incredible.
Brian Allen: good.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: at the last show I was at. I d I I don't want to spoil it, but if there if American Pinball's doing something with a ticket giveaway, it's big. That's all I'll say. Because I want there to be some surprises in the world too. I assume it's the same, but they did something big at TPF. But so I'm just going I'm going through my notes and I don't like to go in any specific order, but I did have let's let's talk a little bit about Totan and how was that project from your standpoint? Tell us a little bit about it.
Brian Allen: Well I love the I love the final result. I'm very, very happy with it. And I'm gonna be bringing back one of those machines from Expo. So I'm super excited to have that in the house. the the process the so the process was very enjoyable. The the hard part was it was a time crunch. I didn't have a lot of time to work on it for the th it's like lots of reasons. So that did make it difficult. But it's one of those things where when you're in it, it feels like it feels insane. And then once you're done, you forget that it was insane. like childbirth, I guess. I mean, not that's a bad example. I've been around childbirth, but you know,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Jason.
Brian Allen: I've been adjacent, yeah. It looked pretty gnarly. anyway. so the whole process was great because I I've worked with those guys before. We kind of know how to work with each other. they seem very happy with it. I'm very happy with it. we you know, sometimes I'll get revisions, but like all the revisions that they said I thought were helped improve the final result. So s so in terms of I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Are there any Easter eggs hidden? Or are those for us to find later?
Brian Allen: Yes, I I hid I may not have hit it, it's pr it's pretty obvious, but I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: You don't have to tell us what they are, but but they're they're there.
Brian Allen: I yeah, I put a little Rudy face from Funhouse. I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Okay.
Brian Allen: like to stick his ugly little face anywhere I can. and I'm trying to remember. I think there's some other things, but mainly that. because of the time crunch, that was one reason that we kind of stuck with the same layout for the cabinet. Just because we just just did not have enough time to explore different variations. But I was glad that for the backglass, they wanted to go in a completely different direction. Instead of just trying to modernize the original backlash, it was like, let's just make a completely different alternate. That way the customer can choose. which I think is a great idea because I think when you're selling two versions of the same product, if you make the A and B too similar to each other, it can cause decision per paralysis or just not feel like enough of a difference. So this so I went in a as different a direction as I could and tried to put more characters on the backlash from from the game, from the play field, and do it in my own my own style. And play field also is pretty different than the original. But there are certain you kinda have to stick with a similar layout just because that that's like how the game is designed. there are some things you can't move. the play field is
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Can we talk for
Brian Allen: yeah, go ahead.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: can I ask you for a second? Cause it of leads.
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I'm a huge fan of your style. I don't want to be too much of a fanboy, but I do think it's worth mentioning. Do
Brian Allen: thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: you do you think the feedback being an artist, in an artist that is creating reimagined designs on traditionalist products Do you ever I assume once in a while there's a vocal voice that says it's too different or it's too Brian Allenized or whatever. Do you do you does it ever does it ever hurt or does it ever, yuck your yum when you put so much into it and you love the design and most of the community loves your design, but there's that one comment, is that
Brian Allen: Yes. Yeah, of course. And it sucks because it's like I could make a post and it has five hundred likes, but then like there's just that one guy and that one guy just freaking sneak you know, sneaks in there into your head. it's I think there's a strange idea that regular people have. Regular meaning non artists, like the muggles, okay. The they think that because we're artists we we're trained to just absorb criticism and just let it roll off of us. But they use that word critique and they use it the wrong way. Because when you go to art school like I did, a critique is when you sit around in a circle with your peers. These are other artists. They're your teachers. There are people who haven't have some kind of knowledge of like the context. And there's even a way like There's a structured way to give criticism too. You know, you say things like this is my opinion or I think. But it's like and which I have no problem with. But it's the people who come at you like as if this is a fact. You know, it's never I mean not never, but I mean when it bothers me, it's not this is my opinion, I think this, it's that sucks, you know, or or like
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah, with certainty.
Brian Allen: Yeah, with certainty. Yeah. And I I th I think what's funny or a bummer too is like so sometimes I'll if I'm trying to sell something, sometimes I'll post something and like a lot of people are buying it. But the people who buy it don't take the time to say, Hey, this is great. They just go buy it. So there could be people who say this is the worst thing ever, why would anybody want this? But meanwhile they're not seeing that a lot of people wanted it, you know? So The other thing I learned is that sometimes it's really like the same five people who say things over and over again. I started realizing that and it's like w once you once you point that out, it's like, well I'm not really getting that much criticism. There's just a couple guys who just like can't stand anything I do. and then the other thing I keep in mind, is that some of my favorite artists i or let's just talk about in the pinball world. Zombie Yeti is my favorite artist, okay? Sometimes he'll post stuff and people will hate on it. And I'm like, God man, if you're gonna hate on like what I consider the king, it's like then there's no y you know, nobody can be perfect then. then so th this is a great question. So I could talk about this for hours. But like I think the other thing that people miss, especially with the alternate Especially with Totan Alternate, for example, is it from my perspective, if you didn't like the version that I made, the other version is still available. It's not like it's not like we replaced it and mine is the only version available. No, mine mine's another choice. And it's like they do this sometimes with movies, they'll re release a classic movie like The Shining or something. And they'll hire another artist to do new box art because they want to get people's attention in the store, that's that's all this is, you know. And I I and I I I've been doing these alternates for long enough now that I know that it has been successful. We've sold plenty of them. So like I guess that's my reaction to the criticism. It's like it Not everything is supposed to be for you. The the more people you appeal to, the more like generic that thing is gonna be. so I don't know. So does it bother me? Yeah, of course it bothers me. I mean, it's like your mom works really hard cooking a st a dinner and brings it to the table and you say, Hey, this is dry, it's gonna hurt her feelings.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: She ju she just worked really hard on it, so like there's no there I think people wanna believe that there's like this I'm supposed to artists are supposed to have this separation from it. But like we're just we're just regular people.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And if if anything, by being an artist or a creator, that type of personality I almost think is default a little more vulnerable to those things. And unfortunately, like a creative,
Brian Allen: Yeah, possibly.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: there's there's more introvert creators, and you know, so I I remember I read a comment recently, and someone said suddenly like, you're a fat ass. And I'm like, What? Like, we're in our mid-40s. And my chin offended you. but the thing is, and then I started to look for b I mean, it with the negative comments that you w let's both be glad they're they're not they're not the majority. But if you look for biases, it's like, well they're a they they work for this company or they they
Brian Allen: Right.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: they are they're like a fake profile that's probably this other person. And like you said, I spotted patterns and it was like these three people. have hated on something ten times. It's like, well, they're not the vocal, they're not the majority, but they are vocal. So then I hit block, but they still have their ways of getting their their thing out there. But for we got to keep doing what we're doing and
Brian Allen: Yeah. Yeah, and I am I'm lucky that it is a very small minority, but w back to your that comment they made, whenever somebody goes to personal insults, that they've lost the argument,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: 'cause there's nothing left. But still hurts. it hurts. And it I think it's crazy too. It's like I don't these people are complete strangers. And in fact they're kind of cowardly because in most of these platforms like Reddit or s You don't even have your name. It's just a screen name, pinball lubber s sixty nine. And it's
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: like, well, can you really affect can you give criticism if you can't even stand behind it with your name? I don't know who you are. Nobody knows who you are. So y it's something that l like s social media is probably fifty percent attr I can attribute that fifty percent to my success as an artist. Because if it doesn't if it didn't exist, I wouldn't be able to sell most of the things I sell. things have changed where people don't really go looking for websites and they don't bookmark websites. They find stuff on Facebook, Instagram, etcetera. So it's like so it yeah, and it but so
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: It's an instant.
Brian Allen: it buy it's a double edged sword. It's great And it's terrible all at the same time. And I'll tell you, if I if I ever stopped being an artist, I would probably delete social media and never look back. not probably, definitely. So if that ever happens, don't worry, I'm not dead, I just retired and I'm working, at a home depot or something, mowing lawns,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So
Brian Allen: I don't know.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: so talking a little bit about the current projects or what it what we're gonna see at the upcoming shows and what we're gonna see on the dealer website. So Totan and Circus Voltaire, from those, which was what was your favorite?
Brian Allen: that's well,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Or was there a favorite?
Brian Allen: it's I don't wanna it's hard to say because I don't wanna hurt either either company, but I I think I think Totan is more like me and and that's just b because of a couple things. Like one, the subject matter fits what I do better. Like I am constantly drawing I love drawing monsters, I love drawing fantasy elements, and that's Totan, So I had I had fun there. And then the the hard part about Circus Voltaire, I'm very proud of how it looks. but that was a kind of a different process because I w it was more strictly directed by by the art director there and they really wanted to stick Very closely to the original in some ways, but not others. so that was challenging because the subject matter didn't fit the things that I am I think I'm good at. but still very happy with it. so if I had to pick a favorite, I guess I would I guess I would pick Tales of the Arabian Knights just because it it felt a little bit more like my personality coming through, if if I can say that. but that doesn't that doesn't mean that I'm not happy with Circus Voltaire or proud of it. And I I think it I think it's good work. I just think it's like harder to see my voice in there, perhaps. well and I mean it's a think about Circus Voltaire, it's a very I wanna use I'm okay, I'm gonna say shallow game. I don't mean that as an insult. What it what I mean is it's like you look at Tales of Arabian Knights, it has a huge backstory because it's based on it on on the Tales of the Arabian Knights, right? There's a lot to pull from. Whereas Circus will tear, it's everything is way more mysterious, you know, n and we were kind of polling for characters. who are the characters in this game? you know, so we're like, well, the cat. The cat does a lot. So it's it it's like the cat, the ringmaster, and the the s I just call her the Spring Girl. I don't even know if she has a name. but and the Spring Girl and the Ringmaster are like the same person. Sort of. It's that even that is like kind of loosely defined as to whether they're the same is it are they the same person or is it like magic happening? Is it an illusion? I don't know. Nobody knows. Or I don't even think the creators of the original game know because I think what a lot of people don't fully appreciate is that when whenever these original things were created, they were also under time constraints and and it's like sometimes you just draw something or or make something because it looks cool. this is sort of a problem with like I'm going on a tangent, but this is this is a this is a problem with like mo
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: That's okay. Tangents are totally allowed. That's why we're here. We want to learn about you.
Brian Allen: like modern sequels like the the new Star Wars movies or something or like they take things like let me talk about Star Wars the Han Solo movie, the new one. It's like they take things that in the original movies, they didn't put any thought into them. They just made them because they looked cool. You know they they made his gun made his gun look like that 'cause it looked cool. But now in the modern sequels, now you have to go back and explain every little thing and attach lore to it. And I think sometimes people attempt to do that to things that were probably just at the time didn't even have a lot of thought put into them. They were just made at the time because it looked neat. and it would be fun. Those guys were having fun. so I do I I envy that sometimes on most of the work that I do is not pinball related and most of the work I do is not a remake of something, it's making something new. And so I'm I'm hoping and I'm excited for the time when I can work on a pinball machine that is not a remake and it has we so I can be the guy that makes the lore and makes and kinda has the fun creating stuff. and probably the l yeah, go ahead. Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So I want to s I want to segue off for a second because I do like to because you're you're donating your time here. We want to don't want to make it an infomercial, but I want to talk about you when I when I was on your website, flylanddesigns.com, I was able I did I had no idea. I knew you did posters, I knew you did shirts because I'm wearing the and I
Brian Allen: yeah. I didn't even notice that. It's great.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: know and I and actually I wore this shirt yesterday. I'm like, but I To wear
Brian Allen: Thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: it on the stream, anyways. so on your website, I noticed you have a lot more than just the translates. We we we know Brian Allen for the translates, but there's the the disc golf designs, the
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: posters for every cool concert. And I one thing that I was interested in, the the large wall banners like wall decor. Tell us a little bit about. those different products that you you market, but also which are your favorites to work on? And yeah. And then we'll s we'll segue back to
Brian Allen: Yeah, the the disc golf
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: pinball, but I'd love to hear about, you know, those other things that you you work on.
Brian Allen: The disc golf thing goes back to what I was saying earlier about kind of the the best part about being a freelancer is that every year all all of a sudden you're walking down like a different road that you didn't plan on. And probably about ten years ago, a disc golf company, the big the biggest one called Disccraft, reached out to me to hire me to draw something for their like for their designs that they sell in stores. At that time I played disc golf, but I didn't even really know that art on discs was even a thing. But apparently there's a whole it's this whole world, you know, and and by doing that I all of a sudden like it led one thing after another to I've done work for all the companies and I I do it quite often, but then I also print my own artwork on disc golf discs and and sell it to customers. and I just started going to disc golf conventions and stuff. So it's like it it's exciting because you you mentioned people know me in pinball because of the alternate translates, but it's so so it's easy to think that's my whole business, that's all I do, but it that's probably only twenty-five percent of what I do. and that is great because it keeps it Fun and exciting. But then it's also good because if one of these things all of a sudden dries up, I can still be flexible. with the band posters, I've done posters for Metallica, Primus is one that I do a lot. I did one 311 poster. let's see someone behind me here. Blink 182. these are all bands that like I grew up with. I never would have in a million years dreamed that I'd be doing a poster for Metallica. So that was just incredible. but things like that too is great because it's another little world where once you're in it, people will collect your posters and and pay pretty good money for them. They sell out very quickly. it's just hard to get in there. It's hard to stay in there, to be honest, because you're competing with so many incredible artists. but and you mentioned banners yeah we we also started printing vinyl banners that we sell at at other types of conventions and things but d I also do a lot of mascot designs, logo designs, t shirt designs. yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: You talked about a mascot design. And this is I as a as a a you know a new a new to podcasting person. The worst thing I wanna I wanna try to not ever recycle something that someone else has talked about, but it you know, it's part of getting to know you. Tell us about, you know, I know you you designed gritty. Tell us about was that
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the first or is the first the favorite, the least favorite?
Brian Allen: It was definitely the biggest probably the biggest project I've ever been a part of in terms of recognizability. I can't I can't say much, but I'm very close to d designing a mascot for another major team in in a sport. I can't say anything. But
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: No worries.
Brian Allen: very very, very close. the the whole thing with gritty was incredible because at the time We really didn't think we had no idea that it would go beyond just local news. We just thought it would be like people in Philadelphia and Pennsylvania would talk about it and and that's it. at least I certainly didn't think so. And when when you talk about internet criticism, most people don't remember this, but the first like four days after Gritty was released, everybody hated him. And I I thought I thought it was over. I l I literally thought it was I thought you know, I thought my reputation was done. If I even have one. I don't I don't know. but then it turned around. Like pe th people started to kind of recognize that like he's an anti mascot. Like he's he's supposed to be weird and strange and fun because Philadelphia is weird and strange and fun, And I I've always said that people are too smart or s or like they're there you can't trick them with the type of marketing that involves making like a super safe traditional looking mascot. It's just too on the nose, it's it's too cynical. So The only option was to go with something that was just like a meme in in and of itself, you know? And th the personality behind Gritty had a huge factor in his success. So the guy who's in the costume, at least at first, he was running all the social media. It wasn't going through some like marketing team. It which is what n most normal companies probably would do. if this was the NFL or something, every tweet would go through six people. but here it was the guy in the suit and he's running his own social media and he's fighting back every criticism and he's h funny and I I think that's what turned it around. You know, I owe a lot to that. but anyway, that yeah, that's the experience of designing gritty. they I don't I don't think I told you how it started. It it was basically like they were working with another company and all the drawings that that other company was doing were safe and traditional. And they found a piece of artwork on on Google of mine that would I think it was like a basketball tiger, it was some mascot that kind of had an attitude to it. and th they reached out to me, but we didn't have much time. It was only two months from the day he was re revealed to when I started designing him. but anyway, great great project, great story to tell at a bar, you know. so anyway, yeah, very proud of that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So another community talking about passion and community, and I think this is I I can associate the two together with with you is the homebrew pinball community to to get to talk a little more about that. So are you becoming I know that you have worked on at least eight homebrew projects or or so.
Brian Allen: Yeah, that yeah, probably. Yeah, and I'm I'm working on another one right now. And then the myth pinball battle stations. I don't know if I I don't think I would consider that a homebrew because he's actually producing many units of it, like at least a hundred units, I think. So that yeah, but but yeah, I I've done quite a few over the years. and and probably the biggest literally the biggest is mothership for Robert Burke.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yes.
Brian Allen: it's it's like a that was a very fun one because that was one where we just created the entire mythology and all the characters ourselves. It wasn't based on an existing IP. So I really had a lot of freedom to just kind of go nuts. And that was probably also under a time crunch. So we probably didn't even have a choice but to just sort of design it on the fly. But that was like a s space sci fi theme and that that was my favorite
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I I did play it. I I played Mothership last year at Expo and I talked to Rob Burke. I he was I had him on the podcast last week and he
Brian Allen: I saw.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: talked about Mothership and he's he wants it there. He's you know fighting to get there's some technical difficulties, but he has
Brian Allen: no.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the he has a similar passion and he he wants that game there so people can play it and experience it. And I think it's a it's like a I I loved the graphics on it, but there's another project
Brian Allen: thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that will probably is been been a hot one lately is Big Trouble in Little China. Kyle Smet's
Brian Allen: Yeah. Yeah, that was a fun one.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: product project, that is g getting fanfare. The lineups for it were as long as Winchester last year. So are
Brian Allen: That's cool.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: there it so those would be That the homebrew community has a passion and creativity. I was talking to Aaron Davis yesterday, and it's because people are working on these projects at home. It's like they're working for themselves. And I think that's what's different than a business. They're there, they they know the vision they want. So when they work with artists like you, do you do you feel more appreciated or do you feel like those are the ones that are going to be? The enjoyable projects when they send you the white wood. Or d or layout.
Brian Allen: well one so one of the difficult parts of homebrews is that especially with a play field, there's a ton of technical work that has to go into it before I even start drawing. And just laying out all the inserts and like the text and stuff like that. And there there's 'cause we're often re-skinning an existing game, but these games are so old that it's not like There's just some Adobe Illustrator file somewhere. we're often working from scans of decals off of eBay, which may or may not even be the right size. so there's that is something that's very challenging versus like working with a a a real a real company. although although with American pinball, we w th there was a lot of work. in developing just the templates and stuff because a a lot of it didn't exist and I'm not you know that was challenging. but th I do love the homebrew stuff because there is more f freedom usually because you don't have like an IP to approve everything. and like right now I can't say much about it, but I am working on something for one of the bigger companies but I'm waiting right now for it to be approved by the IP people. And it's like it's just making me sweat because at that IP location, there's somebody named Bob, and and Bob's whole job is to make sure that character A looks exactly like character A in every single rendition. And Bob has never played a pinball machine. Bob has no idea who I am. He his job his entire existence is to make sure that this guy's mustache is this long and not this long. And what's cool about homebrews is you don't have worry about any of that, you know. and I wanna say that in in in defense of a lot of the artists who are working on pinball machines that are are working with an IP, like not that they need defending, but like I don't think most regular folk realize how much say the IP has in some of these bigger projects. And so a lot of if there's a decision you don't like, it probably was their fault, to be honest. so so that so anyway, that's a long way of answering your question to just say that I love working on homebrews. the prob I would do more of them. The problem is always the budget because Because you're self funding it and it's not for profit, obviously you don't have as much money to throw at it, which I totally understand. But the but my problem has been it takes almost just as much time to do a homebrew play field as it does a play field that's gonna be printed a thousand times, right? It's the same
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah, of course.
Brian Allen: amount of time. So it's like i and I I try to explain it to people this way. It's like if you if you try to book someone's a painter to just paint your house. That painter is gonna say, All right, I counted all the rooms in your house. It's gonna take me a month to paint your whole house. So you are booking a month of my time. so now imagine that I'm not just painting, but now I have to like design things and come up with things. I think a lot of people that reach out to me don't fully understand that like You really are booking weeks, sometimes a month or more of a person's time, and that's expensive. you know.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Do you do you see a way to make that process with less roadblocks or time sucks when you're working with the so knowing that, you know, unless a home brewer is like a pinball whale or a retired wealthy person, they a budget is a reality for a a a normal home person working out of their shop. Is there a way to say, hey, listen, explain that process? This is all about time. The more time you can save in the back and forth project definition, they can provide you with as much material. Is there an early stage process that you either use or could, improve on to get to the end result in a way that is is staying on budget or not making it so you're working more? And I say
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that because I in I'll talk about this l a little bit later, but I used to do graphic design. I was not a graphic artist, but I did graphic design.
Brian Allen: I didn't know that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And the the process I had those people say, I remember this auto shop says, Well, I want a website. I'm like, okay, well, what do you want to say? Do you want
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: and and they gave me nothing? And in the end, they didn't want to pay the full price because you know it wasn't a fully functioning, you know, Ford Motor Company website. you didn't give me any words. You didn't give me
Brian Allen: Yeah, much much respect to you on web design. I used to do a little bit of that way back and face the same thing, y and web design too, there're some tasks that just seem so simple that can eat up five hours in like that, so yeah, it's I don't know. It to to answer your question, I have tried to do things such as, okay, well If I'm if you're if you want me to do a full package, maybe we can figure out how to use characters from the backglass onto the cabinet or or maybe we cap it at like ten characters on the play field versus whatever. 'cause to me it's all math. It's like every character on a play field is gonna take minimum an hour to sketch it, an hour to ink it, an hour to color it. Minimum. And that's if you like it first try and there's no revisions. So it's like if there are twenty characters, that's already sixty hours, so and like I mentioned, sometimes there's a lot of work just setting up the the play field because most of what I'm provided is like an export from AutoCAD or something or or whatever people use now. And that that's n kind of compatible with Adobe Illustrator, but there's always a lot of cleanup that needs to be done. I often have to spend like a full day and a half of work just getting the template going. And that so that itself, if you tried to quote somebody a day rate, a day and a half rate just to do that, they would think that's reasonable.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I had a question from someone in the chat named Rock Hound. Rock
Brian Allen: yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Rock Hound comes in quite often. They says, I have a question for our guest, if allowed. Yes. would he have liked to have had the back to the future franchise universe? Would you have liked to work on that project? Question from the chat.
Brian Allen: Yeah, thank you for the question. I I love the series, I love the movie, but if you look at my work, I wouldn't be right for that project. Because and this is sort of a challenge, this has been a challenge for me my whole career, is that most IPs they want their product to to look exactly like their characters like all the time. That's why Drew Struzan's w work, he's the guy who did so many movie posters back in the day. He was just perfection at this because he could make the characters look exactly like they do in the movie, but he could do it in a in an interesting way. then eventually movie covers movie posters just became like the floating faces of the actors. You know, they don't even do artwork anymore. But I would not be right for Back to the Future. if I was doing something where I could like make a stylized sort of sort of like what I did with Big Trouble in Little China, where I could have a little fun with it. sure, I'd love to. but it's definitely not in like the top ten themes that I'd like to do. so I and I've learned sometimes people will approach me with projects where i they'll be like, hey, I saw this picture I love this artwork you drew of like a dragon snake biting the head off of a you know a a a robot. Can you draw us like a children's book? Like they don't they don't understand that there are y you know, an artist has a style not just because that's like what they like, but it's like that that my style is just me. It's like how I learn to draw and how I draw everything. So if you if you hire me for something that is too far from my style, y I'm basically gonna be learning on the job and you wouldn't want that. so there are plenty of artists out there who that's their whole specialty. It's like they take a still from the movie and they draw it and make it look like artwork and it's like that is the correct path. for those properties. And that's probably what Back for the Future will look like. because I think it's in development, right?
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: We we think so. I d they just dropped a teaser and
Brian Allen: Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: a teaser to basically any time they they plant teasers or something, it's just to keep people from buying something different. we've seen that so many times in the pinball
Brian Allen: Right. Right.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: in the pinball space, but talking about requests from customers or projects, so and do you ever have people that are pushy They're pushing their we I mean, you sort of just talked about this, but they're pushing their vision. And it's just like you're like, this relationship's not gonna work. Like they're they're asking you to create a serial box when you're a concert poster. Like how how do you navigate that when you're like, it's it's w it's work, but you know, they're they're being pushy or they're asking you to use AI to do this or to shortcut using using AI
Brian Allen: god, AI.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: tools. Or something.
Brian Allen: Well, so so setting AI aside for a minute, I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Of course, yeah.
Brian Allen: do I have a pretty versatile portfolio. So if you go to my website, you'll see that I have a section of very dark horror type work. But then I also have lighter stuff like cartoons and I made a joke about children's books, but I actually used to draw children's books w way ten ten years ago. so I don't often reject proposals right away. that doesn't happen very much if if I don't think the style is right. But instead I do just try to make sure they understand that like this just, you know, I attach some examples. I'm like the I like your idea, but this is my style, and this is most likely how it's gonna look. Are you okay with that? Usually people are. and I think I think that I can attribute much of my success to my style because I've seen a lot of other artists come and go where if if your artwork is too generic, then you basically end up just fighting at the bottom because everybody else can kind of do you're just a hired hand. You could just do what everyone else can do. And I noticed that when my style started to get more I guess specific, I was able to charge more because then people were w they weren't looking to hire like a designer, they were looking to hire a designer like me, you know,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: and there's there's less competition there and anyway, that that's that's what I that's my advice always to artists who are just starting out. or at least before AI. My advice was you should try to develop a style and stick with it and only present the type of work that you actually want to do because otherwise you're just gonna keep getting work that you don't want to do. and and anyway, so the answer to your question is it it is less of a problem now because my portfolio is very specific looking. So most of the people who come to me now know what they're gonna get and that's why they came to me in the first place.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that's good that's like the the real you
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: they're gonna come looking for a relationship you're gonna want the relationship and it's going to it's gonna work and
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I think and again looking through your website it was it was clear I'm like this is the style front and center on each of these and it is it is abruptly unique your design I have some dirty Donnie t shirts and and other others
Brian Allen: Wow, he's so good.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: and I'm like it's it's the same but It's a similar illustrated artwork. And you can see in all the designs that there, so much thought and passion went into it. But at the same time, you're I I put this shirt on and I had a nitro pinball shirt that was done by Dirty Donnie. And I'm like, they're cool in the exact same way, but they're completely different. I don't think that you are like any other designer. And I think my
Brian Allen: No, thanks.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: my hype, my hype for you, Brian, is keep doing that. And I'll t I'll I'll storytell and I wanna lead into our next our next subject too, because I think it would make for good conversation. When I said yeah, no worries.
Brian Allen: it before sorry, I wanna you mentioned you said the AI. I just wanna say like because this has become a bigger problem where now when people contact
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Agreed.
Brian Allen: me to get a quote, they will often attach like, Hey, I I made this in Chat GPT, but I want you to make it better looking. or you you even mentioned the example, have people told me, you know, can just use AI? And like in That second example is more extreme. But in the first example, whenever that this is happening, like I'm trying to explain to these people that by pushing something that you've already had a computer generate for you, you have now put into your head an image of what you want the final to look like, which is sort of unachievable. And and it it's like We you have now jumped past the whole creative process, which I know sounds like an annoying buzzword, but the creative process of doing sketches and exploring things at the beginning is where a lot of the happy accidents come from, and where a lot of the things that make a design interesting, that's where they're born. And like these people, they're selling themselves short. By going to Chat GPT first.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: and I wish I wish it would just go away. It was not going away. But then to your other comment about what do I do when someone asks me to use AI, I tell them to pound sand. I mean, because usually when they ask that, it's because they want to get a lower price. Like, like
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Exactly. Yeah.
Brian Allen: I had it recently where it was like, They wanted a game and and we had to draw fifty characters for a card game. And they're like, well, couldn't you just use couldn't you draw one and then use AI to like remake all the others? It's like they're not saying that because they care about my time and they want me to save time. They want to save money. They want to do it for less. And so the answer is always no. And I'm I'm sure then that means it doesn't mean I'm triumphant. It means I lost that job to somebody out there who is using AI all the time, you know. But I'm not too worried about that because there's no way those people can be making much money because that's that race to the bottom I was talking about. Like AI is so easy to use, it's not even a skill. so if you if it's that easy to use and free, then you're not gonna be able to charge much for it. There may be like a year or two where you can kind of trick people and get away with it, but eventually this is gonna be so easy and free and built into everything that those people, you know, they're gonna be lucky to get ten, fifteen dollars an hour and they're they're essentially just gonna be Ugh, I'm getting naught getting sick just talking about it.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Fry well they're you know, it a way of a way of and and we'll we'll let let's go down this rabbit hole and it will
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: be positive and fun, I I assure you. because I am an ally, I'm with you, and and I'm in recovery at the same time. So what you're describing is some of the customers that are still coming to the designers, they want McDonald's for Gordon Ramsey price. And The illusion is there's nothing free in freelance. That's part of it. But I think we're in a little bit of this honeymoon phase of AI. But first I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm gonna share my perspective so that it makes sense for you. in my 20s, I was a graphic designer. I was a computer nerd since I was young, but I had Photoshop Illustrator pirated licenses. Oops, what back then because I was broke.
Brian Allen: I never ever did that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: But the so I was laying out, for example, skate shop posters, t-shirt designs, but I wasn't an illustrator artist. I was piecing together things. I was great with fonts. I had a great taste for color, but I was creating, you know, business car. I was not a true artist, I would say. I did graphic design and web design. It was more of but so having a knowledge of Photoshop since grade eight. having a knowledge of Illustrator and I use Corel draw as a kid. I'm gonna bring you now to me today, in my 40s, getting back into being creative. And AI, AI is like it, it, it's here. We we can't move it, but I wanna I wanna share a story about a very quick one because so the other day I'm trying to create a thumbnail and I'm prompting Adobe Firefly. And I'm providing it what I think are great things. I was back and forth with Adobe Firefly for four hours. I could have opened Photoshop and put
Brian Allen: Right.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: my my source photos, just an image of myself doing like. I could have just put it in Photoshop with
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: a font. So this is the thing. The shortcut be isn't truly a shortcut for a lot of people. And the honeymoon is sort of over. It's fun. And another reality, before I pass the mic, AI's being stuffed down our throats. It's being marketed by all of the all of the social media platforms. They have their own brand. So we're the the in real life artists are up against a lot. But I think for there's there's the people like myself, the honeymoon's over. I'm over prompting chat. To create an image. It so there, I'll I'll pass the mic to you because I think it's something
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that we have to live with, but I think the what it's cre the the slop is real on the written side, the graphic side. I find it useful for research, but that's where I stop. But pass it to you.
Brian Allen: Yeah, the other thing the other thing I noticed i is like now so if you're familiar with a creative brief, I'm sure you are like as a graphic designer, it's usually like a a couple page document that t tells you the idea of what the client is looking for and like what it'll be used for and deliverables and stuff like that. Well now almost everybody who emails me for a project quote is now acting They they now have Chat GPT write their creative briefs and you can so tell because it will produce a four page document that looks very neat and tidy, but then when you read it, it has no substance. It doesn't say anything. It just says buzzwords like this will ha i invoke a feeling of nostalgia and stuff like that. And it it's like I think it's a step backwards because we are now you you mentioned spending four hours to create something. It takes me longer to read something now that doesn't say anything. And it it instead it could have been either a four sentence outline or an acceptable answer is we don't know what we want. What do you think? You know, I I'm happy to tell you what I think as part of my job. I I wanna say about graphic design. So I'm coming at this from an illustrator's point of view. I'm not I don't know the world of graphic design is very different from what I do and I don't know how that should be handled because a graphic designer a lot of times part of their job is is going and buying a stock photo and and using it and putting text and and laying it out. And it's like is AI okay in that case? How is it different? I don't even want to think about it because it's like that's not my area of expertise. So I just want to say that that I wouldn't, if you were making your thumbnails, I there's no judgment there. I just know that as a consumer, when I see an AI thumbnail, I scroll past. I mean, it it makes it.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And I'm I'm living that right now. And I w it's funny. I had this talk with my wife this morning because I'm like, I and I did it, I was gonna send them to you to have something to joke about. But I'm like,
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: okay, so I said Brian Allen sent me some of his official images and I just wanna I was gonna throw the thumbnail together quickly and but I I'm gonna do it after. And I'm like, look it, I plugged it into Firefly and look it it was just ridiculous. And it it cre
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I and I had a great prompt. It created 20 that were just nonsense. So I want to say that I think I I and and I invite the community that has fallen in love with AI is I think it's okay to have gone gone on that honeymoon and and revert back to where it is actually fun to be creative, to lay out something simple and cool. And so I'm in I'm in that phase of like AI recovery. I looked back at my very first grown-up adjacent logo was it was created in Canva, which is, Photoshop at reskin, but it was like it had some AI elements. I'm like, I gotta get rid of that. And so I'm slowly and I've fallen back in love with film photography. It's like I d if you if you were to look at my Instagram when you click search, it's like all cat videos and like
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Just the most ridiculous stuff. It's a hundred percent AI. I'm like, I don't go, I don't search for this. I don't click on it yet. That's what they're forcing. Big, big AI. It's forcing it down everyone's
Brian Allen: yeah. Well and it's be c Sure.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: throat.
Brian Allen: think about and I just want I want to say real quick, I didn't even touch on the moral problems with AI. I I believe it's theft because it was built on stealing artists and photographers' work without their permission. And I also believe there's the whole data center and the energy it uses, etcetera. That's like We won't even talk about that 'cause it's just a whole other thing. I like what we're talking here about the fact that it sucks. It's not even good. i i y you mentioned it's shoving it down your throat. It's like, yeah, Facebook wants me to see AI because they've invested billions of dollars into AI being a thing. And I wish there was a big button that says, Don't show it to me if this uses AI, but of course there's never gonna be one.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I wish there was as well.
Brian Allen: for the same reason, you know, if we could all vote on it, we would love a button that says, No more spam calls, no more spam texts, but that'll never happen because politicians need a way to spam text us, you know. So the i w well, and you mentioned about the cats and like The other thing I hate about YouTube thumbnails being AI now is I I love retro video games, so like I have this arcade machine behind me. so I I subscribe to all these YouTubers that talk about like retro games. But there are a couple that will say like, you know, S N E S Hidden Gems, and they'll show an AI generated screenshot of a game. But that game never existed, it's not real. And it tricks you because you click on it and you're like, that looks awesome. Look at that pixel art. It looks awesome. I'll click on it and see what this game is. But it's never mentioned in the video. And so it's like, I just wish I wish that people were madder about the fact that it's lying. it's a lie. We should be pissed off. We should be pissed off that a hundred years from now when they go back and dig up the history. That we won't be able to know what was real or not anymore. And and like that should just Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: especially in gra in graphics and written written material. I had an
Brian Allen: yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: ex an experience and it it was it was a memory from last year. I was talking I work with my family in manufacturing and so I've I've always received the email from an employee that says, hey, I didn't get a raise this year. Can I get a raise? That was what it should be. Now
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I get a five pager that has nothing to do with their job. And the and I know they're English, maybe English as a second language, the slop that we get by email, and
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the slop that we get. And there was a an incident where my dad read read someone's slop, and he said, Wow, man, this person, this person really writes well. They really they almost write as they might actually write a little better than you talking to me. And then I I had this like vacuum where I'm like. All I really succeeded at in high school and I went to school for marketing was being a creative writer, a writer, and then I I was also the nerd into Photoshop and I was into graphic art. And I had this realization because my brother was just talking about, chat creating an image. And I was like, the only two parts of my personality that were creative
Brian Allen: Yeah. I feel that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: are now. Automated, robots are doing my job better. And it was like, and I'm not getting paid to do those jobs, but when I could see that my my dad was impressed by writing that was 100% AI, he couldn't detect it. He just said it was better than mine. I was like, deflated.
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So could empathize for sure with the the professional gr
Brian Allen: Yeah. I just
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: designer.
Brian Allen: we just I I can't say too much, but we had a family member who was older and they wrote a letter to everybody. It was like a nice thing. but it was so clear that it was written by AI. And it's like It just it just takes It's like why would you do that? It takes all the feeling out of it. I'd rather it have errors and your personality in it than some I don't know. I don't know. Man, this sucks. Yes. Yes. G get us out of here.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: have a question from a friend of mine in the chat. I'm gonna post it to and then read it. And I'm getting better at that. It says Dustin Echoes Pinball. He's very good friend Henry. He says to me, I joined in the AI hate, but the genie's out of the bottle and it ain't going back. So what to do in the new
Brian Allen: Not true.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: inescapable reality to survive. And so Henry to paint a picture for him, he's a lawyer. And so
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: he he's always, you know, has to write legal documents and that So he I believe uses AI to do legal research, but he'll also have clients coming to him that are all of a sudden lawyers because and they don't want to pay his
Brian Allen: god, that must be horrible.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: rate or and but the this wanted actually no, I'll let you I'll so to ask for
Brian Allen: Well
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Henry's question, I'll I'll see if I can pin it again. So what do we do
Brian Allen: I'm no
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: in the new inescapable reality to survive? Henry the lawyer asks.
Brian Allen: I like ten years from now, I have no idea. Because I I think the economy's gonna look completely different. But I do think that we do still have a little power because Crystal Pepsi isn't here anymore because it sucked and people didn't like it. And so it's like w this is what I do, and I this is my small doing my part, you know, starship troopers squashing the bugs thing, is every time I see a Anytime I see anybody selling a AI product, there's a couple in the pinball world. There's a a few pinball businesses, I'm not gonna say the names, but they're selling mods that are AI generated, they're selling t-shirts, you block them. You block them and you n you you've now taken one person away from their audience. Now you never have to see it again. And to me, there is no gray air, there's no warning. If I see it, you're done. And like If everybody did i I it seems to me like ninety percent of people don't like AI. Now they're probably using it, right? They're probably using it a little bit on the side, but they don't like it. And it's like if you reject companies, if you if you reject the YouTube channels, if you unsubscribe for them when they use a misleading AI thing, which I see a lot of comments, people are like, I hate that you used AI. Don't just say that, block Unsubscribe. And I a and I think there you we might still have a tiny tiny chance to tell people that to t tell those people up there that like we don't want this, you know? now when you mentioned like writing I I just had a friend lose his job at a big big company and it came out that for like two years that company was just it w recording every action that every employee did on their computer so they could write an AI program to replace them. And and that's why I say
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: my goodness.
Brian Allen: in t in ten years, in ten years, we are either gonna be all living in a socialist utopia or we are gonna all be like, unfortunately, slaves, putting shoes together. I I there's not really a lot of middle grounds and and my My son is going to college right now and I'm terrified of like what is waiting for him.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I wanna this is
Brian Allen: What a downer.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: a good this is actually a perfect segue. I'm gonna try to feed
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: feed off of that in two ways. So the first, and this is encouraging, and I will state that I am the individual in AI recovery. I've tasted it, it's fed back to me the slop. And so I am I'm I'm myself in AI recovery. Now actually this is a three-point reply, but so my daughter's 11 years old. She's just getting into art at her school. And so she we're looking at her high school that she's going to go to next. And they had the big Wacom. I had one of the original Wacoms that didn't have the screen behind it. Is that that's the brand, right? Wacom? And and
Brian Allen: I had one of those. Yeah, yep.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: and she was just enamored by it, and she was drawing on it, and she's been drawing on her iPad. So I think that if anything, the the smell of the slop and The slop being McDonald's. We'll call it McDonald's, even though I do love McDonald's sometimes.
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: The AI slop is slop to everyone that looks at it. It's detectable as slop. If anything, I think, and I've witnessed this with my daughter, I think it's encouraging that kids like her, they want to create. And I think that it'll, if anything, there may be this period of time where it's gonna, affect some jobs or it's gonna change things for a while. I compare it to the comeback that malls had. So when everyone could order online from Amazon, the malls were dead. I'll
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: tell you, I've been going to my malls and the economy's not great. And they're
Brian Allen: Coming back. Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: they're busy again. They're we they went through that, ordering everything online from Walmart or Amazon and returning it. Yay. Now I think people are like, no, I really enjoyed going to the mall. I see that happening. Because it's starting to happen with my daughter, people are gonna want to be the creator of original stuff again. They're gonna want to create, the thumbnail that might not look as shiny, but it is, was original. And you'll be able to see. I think Aaron made that in Photoshop and not with the. But the third point is, and this was a coming back to what I do every day at work, because this is a conversation I've had about AI before. And I we're fully down this rabbit hole now, by the way. But so we at my business, we use automation, but we
Brian Allen: huh.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: are we're the example of a business that uses automation like it's a power for good. We're trying to save the world. And the evidence is we do manufacturing, and and this was a tie-in because you talked about labor, the slave labor making shoes, but we use
Brian Allen: Yeah, that's my future.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: robotics and conveyors and as much automation, not as much AI. But we use automation to keep people working and keep people from getting hurt. And our age of our workforce is the majority of them are over 55 working
Brian Allen: Right.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: in manufacturing. And it it we would not be like that without having robots doing the heavy lifting and having robots.
Brian Allen: It's interesting.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So this is where automation and again, we don't do a ton of AI, but it it was the Hey, we can help you do the job to keep
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: you doing the job longer. It's not a direct parallel with the writing slot or the graphical AI slop, but in our case, I was like, no, we want to invest in the things that will help the employees have more time with their family. They're going to not hurt themselves at work. I do see a small parallel with for example, using AI to do research. Or doing a using AI to pick a font or using AI to pick a color palette. I do see it having some uses in creative
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: writing or cre or researching or graphic design or illustration. But I think the consumers in the long run, and this turned into a rant too. I'm like, I don't ever want to talk forever on a podcast,
Brian Allen: Yeah, this is interesting.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: but those are the things where I think there is going to be a bit of a a a course correction in the world that is gonna prefer artists like Brian Allen, artists that hey, this is a this is a Gordon Ramsay recipe, it's not McDonald's.
Brian Allen: Yeah. And I might not even I unfortunately might not survive that because I I used to draw on paper and then pen and then scan it and color it. But for the last like ten years I've worked on a Wacom digitally. So it's difficult because like because my my work, because it has bold lines and bright colors, can sometimes look AI generated. So I think the artists who are gonna have more success when when all this g reaches the end are the artists who are really traditional artists, the painters, the the guys who sketch and and and whatever. And I've been thinking about trying to like retrain myself to go back in that direction. It's just so difficult because I'm always always behind, like I never have enough time. So anyway. i it with I wanna bring AI back into pinball and like I notice there's some homebrew people who are using AI to make their homebrews and it's like I understand why you would do that. In fact I had a guy email me who he made his whole graphics package in AI and he wanted me to just touch it up and I was I was like okay bye
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Interesting stuff.
Brian Allen: But y but the I just wish that there was a bit of separation. So for this is a long okay, so for example, I just came from a convention called Retro GameCon in Syracuse. great show. They have a no AI policy, not just in products and artwork, but even the signage. So if you're a shop, you're not even allowed to use AI to make your sign. And I'm telling you, it was so refreshing because I realized how it's like, wait a minute, every little business show selling like pop final action figures, they're they're now using AI signs and they all look the same. And there's just something about them. They just look cheap. And I wish that like Pinball Expo would do the same for the homebrew section. I'm really worried that. Eventually when you walk into that homebrew section, there will be guys who have spent a lot of money and a lot of time to make a truly human made product. And right next to it will be something that a computer generated for that person. And I don't think that's fair. I don't think it's fair to have what's essentially an art contest when one of those is not even created. And and there's so many examples in society where we've rejected things just like that. Like we don't we don't want people taking steroids in sports because it's cheating. We don't want i i if you had if you had a a high school art contest and it was revealed that like one of the kids just traced, you know, he wouldn't be allowed to enter the contest. Like it would be frowned upon. Or I I equate it to like lip syncing. If you go to a concert, you want to see the artist singing. You don't want to see them lip syncing to a recording of them singing. And it's like, why do we feel that way? It kind of sounds the same. So why does it matter? It matters because there's something that we all recognize that it's like we want to celebrate and award people who actually spent the time building and creating something and not having we keep using the word create when we're talking about AI. My argument is is it's not even creating because it's more like a slot machine. You're essentially typing in, I want a picture of a cat, and then you just keep pressing the button until you get the cat that you want. So that you're not even you don't even really have a hand in that. You just you're the guy who stops the wheel from spinning. anyway. I I wish all conventions would s would like have a no AI policy because it's not fair to all the other people. or or if you can't do no AI, have an AI section or make it so that you have to put a sign up that says, you know, created with I just use the word create, generated with AI. that way you let the customer decide. if they like it or not. But if you don't do that, I think it's lying. You're tricking people because they're gonna assume it was made, there's so many examples. I I I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: But
Brian Allen: there there's it's the same thing if you entered a baking contest and somebody baked a cake, but then some other idiot just bought a cake from Walmart and brought it to the the contest. People reject that. They don't like that. And but for some reason there's still ten percent of the people out there who defend that exact same behavior but with AI. It's weird. And I I kind of think they're just being trolls half the time. I think these are people who just wanna agitate and I don't I don't know. I do not know.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Well, I think also, people the the psychology about understanding the problem or understanding the enemy, people they'll make an excuse to justify a shortcut. And
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I'll tell you and it and for those just joining the stream or that skipped forward to this chapter in the podcast, I'm in a bit of the AI recovery and the honeymoon is is i it was it was fun enough and But I think there's the people will justify it and they'll be like, well, it saved me time writing that job letter. It saved me
Brian Allen: Mm-mm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: time and family time is more important. And I think that you mentioned the anti AI movement and it's you know us versus them. I think that the battle plan that if I were to be leading the charge, which I'm not, by the way, I don't have the spine for it, but If if the AI movement is going anti-AI movement were to be successful, we really would need to work together at like you mentioned, just blocking, deleting, ignoring, scrolling. Those are great solutions. The other approach would almost be like, how do we change their mentality like one person at a time? a friend last year offered up their Canva collection. And they said, guys, I see you're all getting into AI. Here's my Canva collection you can use to and I'd almost think that, for me, let's say someone and I'll I'll it'll lead me to two very quick stories of where AI blew my mind, but and it in in a vomitous way. But if you said, for example, hey, you know, you can you could sit and create something pretty special in Canva for free. And learn the process, and you wouldn't waste hours prompting and creating this, everyone uses the same font. I was just on an Alaskan cruise, and we went to
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the Alaskan destinations, and every single design in every single gift shop. I was like you, as soon as I saw it, I'm like, I would never wear that. Everyone would know that's the AI font that chat pushes out, or that. And recently I the the two AI slop stories that recently I had a t-shirt company approach me and say, hey, we're willing to send you, you know, pick five of your of these shirts, we'll send them for free, talk about all their designs, one hundred percent, not a single one
Brian Allen: sure.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: was like lowest grade AI. I'm like, was the email they wrote me AI? And
Brian Allen: Yeah, probably.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: and I so I'm like, how do we If we're going to change the minds of the people, this is like trying to get your teenage, your teenage child to not drink, I think, or not, do drugs or not drive recklessly. You can't just tell them no. And you can't just ignore the problem. How can we, let's say we're parents of the anti-AI movement, how do we change the mentality like one person at a time? Do we point them towards alternates? what would you suggest? That isn't just the blocking and ignoring the problem's there. Would do you suggest
Brian Allen: Right.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that they, download a trial or do something of to do it themselves? What do you suggest?
Brian Allen: Man, is it tough? I wish I I
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: It's tough.
Brian Allen: wish I had an answer. And I my two kids, Michael and Isabella, they are they are f actually great artists. They they're they love drawing, they're really good at it. But I'm probably the first one in my family to not encourage my kids to go into art. My me and my brother were both artists. My My uncle was an artist, my grandmother was an artist, my great grandfather was an artist. And so I grew up in this lineage of pushing that art can be a real career. And I don't see it anymore. And I and the reason it goes back to what you just said about going to that shop and seeing seeing the Taurus t shirts, right? Well, I used to draw Taurus she t shirts. I used to draw t-shirts for Hard Rock Cafe and for other tropical destinations and Harley Davidson and stuff like that. All those jobs are gone already because those jobs, they were already low profit jobs. They were things that the guys doing the hiring didn't have a big budget to begin with. Now they can do it for free. They're probably doing it themselves. They're doing it for free, or they're hiring somebody on Fiverr to do it. And luckily you didn't like the result. But to be honest, it may not matter because enough people will probably buy them that it will they'll still they will make more money in the long run because they didn't have to hire somebody to to draw the design. They didn't have to hire me, you know? And I did that a long time ago. That was like eight years ago. And when I did that, I learned how to draw, I got I got better and I put something into my portfolio. But now that those gateway jobs, those middle jobs, now that they're gone, I don't see a path anymore. At least not the path I took, right? I think that path is gone now. so my my answer to your question is not very positive. Like I I don't really think there's gonna be the need for many commercial artists anymore. There there probably will always be the need for artists who are like painting ducks on a lake, y and w which I I'm not throwing shade at that. I can't do that, you know, and I respect that area. that'll probably always exist. Because I think people will always there will be enough people who appreciate that. I don't think there's there's no stopping it, because for every company the potential of how much money they are gonna save by basically not needing to hire people is just it's gonna be impossible to deny. But then that just leaves the question of. Then what's everybody gonna do? if we're all bored and unemployed, that's when we start throwing shit and burning stuff down, and that's not good for them either. So I I don't know, man. I don't know.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Well, you know what? and I'm not in your shoes. I'm not in the same perspective.
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: But from my perspective, I was really encouraged the other day to see how interested my offspring was at I I mean, she was she has a sketchbook and I bought her a new
Brian Allen: Yeah, it's great.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Those things she is more interested in this yesterday before she went to school, she said, Daddy, I've got some time this weekend. And guess what? My project, it's photography. And it like she knows, actually this background image of of the podcast is film photo. So I've been doing I've
Brian Allen: cool.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: been getting back into film photography because I was kind of like, everything's everything's computer generated. My my s big Sony digital camera takes pictures that are almost too real. And everyone's using filters, even some of my friends in the Content creation, they're making their digital photos look like the old stuff. I think that though there may be a negative, we're seeing negative on the horizon right now in regards to illustration and artwork. I do definitely believe with confidence that we're gonna see ish the stock on the original is gonna go up. The stock and value of that original creator,
Brian Allen: Maybe.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the illustrator, the painter, or the, maybe not film photography, but the creators that are like yourself, the illustrators that want to create. I don't I'm not one solution wise, I'm not I'm not one that thinks those are gonna fully go away. I think it's going to be a bit of a it's gonna be a bit of a change period. But
Brian Allen: Well, the the hard part is that it used to be you could easily spot it because the guy had twelve fingers, you know. But
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: it's it's come along enough that it's very difficult to spot the difference. And like I I've had people come up to me at conventions and stuff and th they'll be like, man, I hate AI, I appreciate what you do and I'll be like, You know the T shirt you're wearing is AI generated, right? And they had no idea. So so most people are not easily, but most people are being tricked and lied to. Because if that design when they bought it, if it said made with AI, they wouldn't have bought it. And it's the same thing with like like some pinball conventions. I do a lot of posters for these these people and it it seems like it's well received, and then occasionally there will be one that comes along that uses AI on their poster, but they don't say it. they they let the people assume that an artist created it. And that that's I think that's my major that's one of my biggest problems with it. And it's it's one of the things that the defenders of AI never come out and say. It's like if it was if it really wasn't such a big deal, then why not tell people that it was type you typed it, And the the reason they don't is because they know it's cheating and they know that the consumer doesn't want it. So again, I use the word lie. I think it's a lie. you're deceiving people by doing it if you're not telling them. and that that's what is frustrating to me because y you said the original will rise to the top, and I agree with you, but what makes it so hard Is that AI can fake something to look like the original? Or we didn't even get into this, but now there's a massive problem of people suspecting everything is AI. And
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: I've I've followed some artists for like there's there's this girl I followed for 15 years, and she does these amazing colored pencil drawings of stuff. She's she's fantastic, right? She's been posting for 15 years. And Now all of a sudden, she has a huge following. Now all of a sudden, whenever she posts things, she gets hundreds of comments of people accusing her of using AI. And it's like it's a photo of a colored pencil drawing on a desk. And she even has videos of her drawing it. So it's like if you can't convince people, and it it's not really their fault, I guess, because they've been tricked and taken advantage of. doubt everything. And I guess that's where we're headed. you won't be able to tell v what is
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Well, I was I and aga working in a business when someone brings a problem to my office or in my day job, they'll bring a problem to my office. I'm like, okay, you have to open with the solution before you tell me the problem. This is this
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: is one that the the solution is so complex. We're fighting the big AI, the algorithms and the the social media platforms that we're all mostly so many people are addicted to. So that is that is But how do we win the hearts and minds? The solution for me is those friends that are getting sucked in or that do we we have to provide them alternatives? And I was recently looking for an alternative to, you know, grab my I was getting I was wanting I had something that was AI generated. I'm like, I I'm done with this. But then I go on Fiverr, five Fiverr, and I could not find someone there. Platforms like that need to have a if if I were to talk about a solution, because then we can point people toward the solution, I would say that platform or any freelance platform needs to say this is guaranteed not generated with AI. It is an original illustration. Cause I was looking for late,
Brian Allen: And f Fiver will never do that.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I know they won't. That's the thing. They want to create, it's frustrating,
Brian Allen: You know,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: right?
Brian Allen: the thing with Fiverr, e even before AI, I would say almost like every two weeks I would be notified that someone on Fiverr stole my artwork to put in their portfolio. There was a guy who every few months or something, he would his entire portfolio, talking about like thirty images, everything in it would be my image. He must have had some kind of scraper that just went to my website. copied it all and uploaded it. And I would have to email Fiverr and and they they would never they would never fire these people or boot them. They would just like take it down. And of course when they do a job, I would have people email me and say, hey, I hired this guy on Fiverr, but then I realized the logo he gave me was yours and then they'd show me the image and it's like all the guy did was just copy and paste from my website. So Fiverr does not care about that because now these guys don't really have to steal in the traditional way. Now they're stealing in the way that l like I said, I I believe AI steals because it was built on a foundation of scraping artwork, copyrighted artwork, mind you. All of my artwork, I I pay
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah. Or copied written words too.
Brian Allen: money to copyright all of my artwork. Like we we file through the copyright office. they i i it it's so bizarre. Like you are not allowed on your blog or your YouTube channel or whatever, you're not allowed to just go and grab something of mine and put it on on there without permission. that's what copyright is for. But for some reason they they have allowed these scrapers, it's like if you steal one image, it's illegal. If you steal a million images, it's not. It it's It's bizarre. And hopefully,
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: I don't know. Maybe maybe there'll be some laws. But but currently, the attitude is we don't want to regulate AI because we need to beat China. Man, this is a depressing topic. You know, wait, we haven't
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Okay, okay. I
Brian Allen: even i isn't it funny though. We've been talking about the negatives of AI, but we haven't even mentioned that there's a ten percent chance that it could kill us all. Like
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Like
Brian Allen: That's like not even entered the chat yet.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Plane Terminator to risk. I'm like, this is all happening right now. Well, I do, you know, you know,
Brian Allen: Anyway.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Brian, it has it is it you you are right. And I apologize if it made you feel these emotions or if it this I will s I will say with
Brian Allen: No, no, I i this is real. I mean this is this is the reality now.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: honesty, I've been waiting to have an intelligent conversation about AI with someone who works works firsthand in the industry that is That can be affected by it. And it it's hard because a lot of people will be either the one side or the other. No, AI is awesome. It makes my job easier. It makes me, but I've been waiting to have this conversation. So I wasn't actually planning, I didn't have it in my notes to talk about, but I'm glad we did kind of talk about it. But it was it it it was
Brian Allen: Yeah, it's
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: a bit it was a bit of a a bit of a rabbit hole that we knew it would it would become. But I for me, I think that for those that have I remember what I was gonna talk about. That was another thing that we're we're gonna struggle with was s for some people the AI made artwork accessible to people that have no skill. Like, so those are the ones that I don't think the artists need to worry about. Like grandma creating a invitation to her bake sale. Those maybe aren't stealing jobs, but the more that it's out there, I don't know. I don't think there's much we can do, but
Brian Allen: Yeah. No, it isn't in that's an interesting 'cause we were talking about YouTube thumbnails also, right? Like those aren't jobs. Like very few YouTubers are hiring an artist to make a thumbnail, right? So that didn't take away a job. and you mentioned grandma, you know. I just think my my problem there is is the dishonesty of it, like when it's creating something that's not real, t to deceive. But but I g and I keep using the word create. I gotta stop saying create because it it r it really is not it it's just it's just it's ordering a pizza. You know? You called the place, you said I want a pepperoni pizza, a guy showed up your door and delivered a pepperoni pizza. You did not make that pizza. You didn't even
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: That's right.
Brian Allen: imagine that pizza. You just anyway. Yeah, w i it's a it's a great conversation and it I think it's tough because I I understand that I can't win. there's no there's no winning this. I just I just hope that we fight for this a little harder than we are and and l let's not let them take creativity from us just yet, it's it's really like just let us hold on to it for a little bit longer.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I think that you said there's nothing you c you you can do. I think standing your ground, standing your ground and changing the hearts and minds one at a time. And I don't think the blocking and deleting will be fully it won't stop the spread, but I think it's like point people towards towards or encourage, hey man, your your pinball night poster would have been better if it was written on yellow paper. And you know, I think encouraging Without cre so anytime you say that's the worst to somebody, now we're in a defensive, offensive posture.
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I think I think when you're talking about changing mindsets, I think it's a very complicated ask project. You gotta make people understand that there is options, there is there is something wrong with what they're doing, and and push them, guide them. Guide them toward the not going out and drinking if we're talking about our kids again. make them want to change. It's just like telling people they've got to become sober. Guess what? I became sober on my own. But you could tell me there was something wrong with me and I had to change on my own. I think it's a similar path. For those that are capitalizing on the shortcut, that every one of their t-shirts is AI. I think it is worth anyone who's in the fight against AI artwork, you know, hey, be like, hey, you could have gone and created your own shirt in Canva using, you know, your their fonts or maybe a template, but you don't you didn't need to go and create it in five seconds with a prompt. Like you know, encouraging people to change is is a is I think a solution.
Brian Allen: Yep. Yeah, this it's it's hard not to get defensive about it 'cause it's like you you even said it. It's like it took away what was special about your personality. it's like
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: th those were my things, those are what may be different and now you're it's being replicated. So that's hard to deal with. You know, I never thought I would be dealing with it. but anyway.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: But I think it it increases the stock of the originals. I I I fully agree. There's gonna be people
Brian Allen: Okay.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: that come to your show, your booth at at Pinball Expo and they're there because they're like, Man, I've had enough of this shit. I want I want
Brian Allen: You know what in it?
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: the original, I wanna see a real artist, I wanna see,
Brian Allen: Well that
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: you know.
Brian Allen: yeah, and I I I've actually been doing more conventions and I'm finding that might be the next path I take because when you're there in person, people people really respond positively to that. they want th there okay, there could be two booths. There could be my booth and then there could be another booth where it's not the artists, it's a brand and they just buy and resell stuff. People respond more positively when they can meet the creator and talk to them and get the thing directly from them. So yeah, I do think hopefully that that will continue to grow, but you need to do that thing where you ban AI art or at least identify it. Because if you let the two commingle, then the customers aren't gonna know they're gonna start doubting everything, you know, and we we can't we can't let people trick them anymore. we have to be honest about what's going on. We can't we have to have a different league. You can't let the people who take steroids compete against the people who don't. steroids that's not even a good analogy because like at least at least the athlete
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: It is a fun analogy.
Brian Allen: is doing something. You know what I mean? Like it it's like anyway.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: try to scroll it is a fun analogy and actually a friend O Savet that lives in Flor Florida owns a couple UFC gyms and when we were talking about steroids
Brian Allen: shoot, you cut out there for a second.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: earlier he said yeah but the sports would be more fun with that's one door you know anyways but I don't know where do we where where where do we go with this I actually I
Brian Allen: Where do we where do we go after talking about the end of human civilization?
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Brian, that was not my intention. But I I am, I am forever grateful that I could have an intentional, an intelligent conversation with somebody that's a frontliner. You are taking a stand and you are standing up for what you believe in. And I think that is that is the most winning approach is to just, keep embracing that style that makes you you, drawing your style, not changing because, a customer. pays you to or asks you to or convince tries to convince you. I think those are, values that are gonna keep Brian Allen's booth popular at Pinball Expo or TPF. And I think that I hope, not I think I hope that is what you see, because I believe your booth will be busy. It was busy last year when I went, and I hope you sell out of all the stuff. But
Brian Allen: I hope so too, 'cause it's heavy and I do not want to take it back.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: You don't want to lug it two ways.
Brian Allen: Yeah. And I gotta leave room in my trailer to take the totan back with me. So I gotta sell at least enough stuff to fit a pinball box in there. But I think I think we'll be good. I think I love the new setup we have, so I can't wait for people to see it. and please come to my panel with Padretti Pinball 'cause everybody on the team worked really hard on it. They're they're great people, so They they should have interesting stuff to say.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And so Brian, at your booth at Pinball Expo or any of these shows, d what sort of items are there for sale that you would recommend? I know we we know you for the trans lights. I mentioned the banners. You have the frames for trans lights if if you still have those.
Brian Allen: Yeah, we do. We we have we're gonna be bringing twenty five of the LED frames with us. the some of the if I could show I have some new stuff here. I have
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And T shirts, but please do, yeah.
Brian Allen: yeah, I have the newest thing I don't know how this is gonna show up. There's a bit of a glare. yes, it's gonna be hard to see, but I made a Tales from the Crypt translite. I haven't shown this yet, so I'm excited for people to see it in person. But I have a translate and a backglass version of this for the old data east machine. We're gonna have a bunch of these. circus will tear alternate backglasses. These fit in the original machine or the remake. so
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Okay.
Brian Allen: if you got if you got the new machine and you kind of prefer The older look with the girl, the spring girl in the middle. this is an option. And I got I have this new t-shirt. This new t-shirt I drew that's kind of like a homage to Bride a pin bot a little bit, but add it added some more characters and stuff like that. I have this Donkey Kong t-shirt. This is an older design, but it's the first time printing it. on a t shirt, a crazy rabid Donkey Kong here. man, just some just some new I guess some new artwork. Like the glare is awful. But I drew this mashup. that'd be cool.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: That's I'll I'll try to post the image on the edit. I'll try to I'll try to post it on there as well. My daughter I had that one on the wall and my daughter came in. She's like, is that Pennywise? I'm like, I think so.
Brian Allen: This is just a a mashup. cool. Yeah, I'm a big horror movie guy. So I love drawing my spin on the horror movie characters. and then this is the the poster I did for Pinball Expo. This is gonna be on their t shirts.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: cool.
Brian Allen: I I've worked with them for the last like five years. It's been great designing their stuff every year because it's always fun to kind of go with a new theme. They always provide
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yep.
Brian Allen: the theme. And this was a coincidence. They just said we want a circus theme this year and then it it just so happened that I did the circus will tear machine. So it's a happy coincidence there. and then we do we have a bunch of other stu new stuff. We have some magnetic aprons for Attack from Mars and Funhouse, No Good Gophers and stuff. Those are new. I don't know. Just
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: You have you have banners for a you have a you have banners
Brian Allen: Lots of stuff? Yes.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: for a lot of those as well.
Brian Allen: Yeah, we do. I I have every pinball title I've done I have a banner, but then we also have a lot of other arcade and and pop culture artwork on banners. stickers, coasters, coasters are a big thing. I have a bunch of new coasters
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: T shirts.
Brian Allen: and yeah, a bunch of t shirts, you know, a little bit ev a little bit of everything. Yeah, yeah. a little bit of everything. it's it's cr it's a crazy setup. It takes me like almost seven hours to set my booth up. but it's de it's worth it. This show is is worth it for sure. And I'll be doing the Jersey Jack tour, which will be nice. I've never done that before.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: gonna try to get in on that one too. I haven't been in there.
Brian Allen: Cool. And I I I'll be on the artist's signature line too, so hopefully they'll let me sit at their table and
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: cool.
Brian Allen: and yeah, I'll be signing stuff. anyway, I don't know. It's just I it's just our favorite show. ever it's fun seeing the people that I only see once a year. and just really looking forward to it. Last year I made the stupid mistake of I put the date in my calendar one day late. So we actually I realized that morning that I was supposed to be there setting up my booth. So we had to drive 11 hours and then set up. We only had like four hours to unload and set up our entire booth. It was chaos. I was probably just sweating and
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I think I remember that last year on day one. I think I came over early at all. I said some stress.
Brian Allen: so this year. We're going up a day early. I'm gonna I'm gonna err in the opposite direction. And we're gonna anyway. I really wanna I I really wanna have like a just sort of a great new impression. because these people have seen me year after year, and so I I really wanna make it different each year and and and bring give people a new reason to come to the booth. 'cause everybody at that show has great stuff. It's just it's just a great show. They they do a great job of picking who makes the cut, I think. I've been to some shows where it like some booths are just like a table full of it's it looks like a yard sale, y you know, to put it lightly. Expo is great in that I think every booth has personality and and great products and great stuff. so looking forward to it.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So now I know time time is valuable for you. We've we've spent time together today talking for it looks like almost almost two hours. So we went a hair, we
Brian Allen: Is that right? my gosh.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: went a hair over time. I wanna say I sorry if that took up too much of your time today, but this was one of my favorite conversations I've had on a on those those hard to talk
Brian Allen: same. Thank you.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: about subjects. And I think that, you know, we can we can encourage we can encourage those arcades to go to in real life illustrators and artists for their posters. We wanna we wanna encourage them. And I mean that's just how I work too. I try to like guide people into guide people to the light rather than just shining the other light in their eye. You know what I mean? But I think there is there is there is some hope with that. We want to see some posters that are made by in real life artists. But
Brian Allen: Yeah, it i i it i like I know we gotta go, but if you think about it, like what is the point of pinball? Wha why is it different than an arcade game? It's that tactile, like it's the physical, it's the real stuff that you can see and feel. So it seems like if any group of people should be totally against AI, it should be the pinball people. Because they've
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: they're celebrating it it's why this is not a knock against virtual pinball because I I've played it and I do think it's cool. But most people who are really into pinball machines look down on virtual pinball for exactly that reason because it's like it's not real. I want to see it. I want to feel it. I want to know that there was a history behind it and like somebody built this. So it's like if you're an AI defender, think about it that way. How do you how how do you balance those two completely different views. so so I think I don't know, just look just re examine that and l let's let's let's support humans
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: In the chat, in the chat, Osa Vet says, Well, pins are an art piece. And like what you're you're saying too, Brian, is they're an analog medium. They started
Brian Allen: Analog, yes.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: as analog. They s they've always been an art piece, even though there was periods of time where one artist might design a hundred machines a year in the in the booming times. There's a few artists like that. But I
Brian Allen: Yeah.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I think that's why this community wants this this thing to stay analog. It won't we don't wanna lose it's if you were to think of a simpleton a simple comparison, but it's like a car show. the classic cars, they need to stay classic. We kinda like the resto mods, but I've been to car shows where if you pulled up in in my newer Mustang, they'd tell me to park next door. Like, you know, we wanna keep
Brian Allen: Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: analogue, analog.
Brian Allen: Yeah. Well cool. That's it that there's your headline. Keep analog analog.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Keep analogue analog.
Brian Allen: a two hour conversation about AI.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Well, actually, it and that was not my intention. I I knew we would touch on it because this was
Brian Allen: No I enjoyed it.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: this was this was a good conversation. I think we do and people like me from my lens, I think it's worth taking a a a look at our o a a look inside ourselves at why we're you know, why we are wanting to take the shortcut on that thumbnail like we talked about, or you know. writing writing documents and stuff. And I think it's it just we'll find we want to get back on course. It is it's nice to be human and appreciate what it takes to have humans creating stuff. And I think there is a positive light in there.
Brian Allen: Hope so. Yep.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And so Pinball Expo is next week. today we I I was very I feel very lucky to have spent so much time talking to Brian Allen and Flyland Designs with an S dot com. And that's where
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm. Yep, that's my website.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: I do highly encourage people to go and do some souvenir shopping before expo. Like decide what you want to buy from Brian's catalog and then either buy it there or order it. But I know those translite frames will probably sell out some of your posters and t-shirts.
Brian Allen: Yeah, every year they've s every year they've sold out. We've been super lucky.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: So come to your booth, buy a trans light light up. I think they're Voodoo that makes them or whichever, but come and
Brian Allen: Mm-hmm.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: come and buy them from Brian and and the banners and the posters and the shirts. I hope you I hope you sell all of it out and go back with an empty trailer as well. But
Brian Allen: Me too.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: but yeah, I I'm I'm I'm glad we had a good conversation. Is there any other topics we want to discuss or should we should we wrap and get back to our Friday? yeah.
Brian Allen: Well one more one more thing about AI. No, I'd I'm just kidding. We're done.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Yeah.
Brian Allen: no, th I I really appreciate it. This is great, great conversation. and I looking forward to seeing you at AI or at at AI at Expo at AI Expo.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: AI faster.
Brian Allen: looking forward to seeing you and everybody else and and thanks again for everybody's support. I really really appreciate it.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: And on behalf I get a I like to do this where I speak on behalf of everybody, even though they probably would hate it. But thank you, Brian, for doing you and staying you and staying authentic and creating some of the most consistent and loved designs in the in the reimagining of what is already cool with your art in in the pinball space. And so yeah, I just want to end on a thank you. And but yeah. We will we will see you we will see you soon, my friend.
Brian Allen: All right. Take care. Bye.
Aaron - Grownup Adjacent: Take care.