00:00:03Building Brainscape
00:07:03AI in Education Technology Challenges
00:15:10Retention and Success in EdTech
00:23:38How to Find Brainscape and Connect
ABOUT THIS EPISODE
Get ready to turbocharge your learning with our guest, EdTech entrepreneur, and the CEO of Brainscape, Andrew Cohen. Prepare to be captivated as he enlightens us about his journey from economist to tech innovator and how his stint with the US government and World Bank sparked the idea for Brainscape. An ingenious tool that’s been hailed as "flashcards on steroids", Brainscape harnesses the power of cognitive science to optimize learning. Listen in as Andrew outlines the growth of his team, their ascent to profitability, and the unique features of Brainscape's interface.
Staying ahead in the EdTech space is no easy feat and we delve into the challenges that come with the terrain. Andrew opens up about the hurdles of outsourcing development teams and the crucial role of senior engineers in his venture. Hear firsthand about Brainscape's resurgence post-pandemic and the profound impact it has had on its users. Andrew also sheds light on their business model - a freemium subscription system catering largely to consumer users.
In our captivating chat, Andrew gives us a peek into what it takes to ensure retention and success in the EdTech sector. He enlightens us about the metrics used to measure Brainscape's accomplishments, and the art of crafting a product roadmap. For those of you with entrepreneurial aspirations in EdTech, Andrew has some valuable advice - take a cue from his approach of engaging with the target market to refine ideas. As we wrap up, Andrew invites you to connect with him and Brainscape across various platforms including Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, and Twitter. So, plug in and get set for a thrilling ride into the world of EdTech, the ups and downs of building a business, and the fascinating fusion of cognitive science and education.
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English
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SHOW NOTES 🔗
TRANSCRIPT 🔗
WEBVTT
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Welcome back to the growing Lean podcast sponsored by Lean Discovery Group.
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This is your host, dylan Burke, also known as Deej.
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I'm very happy to be here with Andrew Cohen, founder and CEO of Brainscape.
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Welcome, andrew, good to be here.
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Thanks, dylan, amazing Good to have you here.
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So, to get us started, can you give us a little bit of a background of yourself, firstly, and how you ended up in the business you're in today?
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Sure.
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So I actually was trained as an economist.
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In undergrad I worked for the US government, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and then for the World Bank in Panama on a controversial anti-corruption project and along the way towards solving that problem down there, I had to get really good at Spanish and I was a Spanish minor.
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In school.
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I was using Rosetta Stone.
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I had tutors, but nothing was efficient enough for me.
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So I ended up building the first version of Brainscape myself, started as a Microsoft Excel macro, and then it just sort of started spiraling.
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People wanted to use it for themselves and this thing goes viral over email and Panama and so I pivoted my career.
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Actually, I got a master's degree in education technology and used all the cognitive science research that I was coming up with in school to sort of become the Brainscape white paper.
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I got some engineering co-founders and then proceeded to make hundreds of mistakes, like every first time entrepreneur does, and learned a lot in the school of hard knocks.
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Now, over more than a decade of growing Brainscape as a first venture backed company and now a profitable business, which is suddenly sexy these days.
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Amazing.
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And when did you start the business?
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How long ago was that, believe it or not, 2009.
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Okay, well, so so it's been a minute.
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Yeah, we're like the oldest startup in New York, so to speak.
00:02:02.391 --> 00:02:09.111
You haven't had an exit, but are continuing to grow and we've got a really great team.
00:02:09.932 --> 00:02:10.373
Amazing.
00:02:10.373 --> 00:02:13.640
And so what exactly is Brainscape, is it?
00:02:13.640 --> 00:02:17.766
You said it's in the education sector, so what exactly does it do?
00:02:17.787 --> 00:02:21.117
Yeah, I think of Bracescape like flashcards on steroids.
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So you can make flashcards through a web browser, you can find them created by other users, collaborate with them, sort of almost like an Evernote for flashcards.
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And then there's a marketplace of publisher creative materials as well.
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So anything that you would study with flashcards from early childhood learning your dinosaurs or ABCs all the way through medical school, nursing school, law school we actually tend to be the most popular in those very higher ed, high stakes certifications where you just have months and months or years of information, tens of thousands of little facts, that the study process is just such a stressful thing.
00:03:04.735 --> 00:03:12.076
We help make it a lot less stressful and the real secret sauce is the cognitive science behind how they work.
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So flashcards themselves already offer if you've got active recall, you're thinking of the answer from scratch.
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Rather than just recognizing multiple choice, You're assessing how well did I really know this?
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The easy pile, the hard pile, the medium pile.
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So flashcards are already a really great tool.
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But where Bracescape adds the value is the automated spaced repetition algorithm.
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So as you rate your confidence and how well you knew it it's actually a one to five scale we determine how frequently it should show up, and there's just so much cognitive science research that shows the single most important factor in your ability to retain knowledge is getting that interval of time right in between each exposure.
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Ideally the longest possible interval before you would have otherwise forgotten the material.
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And if you can schedule each individual repetition in that way, you're optimizing your personal learning stream.
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That's amazing.
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I love that.
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And the information?
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Is it user generated or where does the information come from?
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Yeah, again, it's both.
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So you can make your own flashcards as sort of like your own tool.
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You could make them in the app, you can make them in a web browser.
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You could upload spreadsheets of content.
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You can collaborate with your classmates.
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So, OK, I set up Biology 101 in Bracescape.
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Guys I'll make the flashcards for chapter 1.
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Dylan you make them for chapter 2.
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Mary you make them for chapter 3.
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So we get sort of a collaborative group.
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We get headed each other's stuff and adjust permission settings.
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If you need, A teacher or an instructor or a school can create the material or can sort of organize it.
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But then we also have partnerships with publishers where we'll sort of have flashcardized material that aligns to their book or their exam prep guide or their course online if they have sort of an online course and deliver Bracescape as sort of the perfect mobile complementary study tool.
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that goes with it.
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Amazing.
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I wish I had this when I was still in school.
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I feel like I would have helped a lot.
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It's not too late to start learning other languages in Bracescape, or there's so many wine enthusiasts.
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Wine is actually our biggest subject area right now for the certification market the WSCT exams, the Somalia exams, so yeah not too late then?
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Amazing, I'll have a look after this for sure.
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What interface are you using?
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Is it a mobile app?
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Yeah, it's a web browser and a mobile app exactly.
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OK, amazing, and I'll see you in the next one.
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Can you tell me about how you've scaled from the beginning, like what have been your major milestones up until today?
00:06:05.860 --> 00:06:08.786
I guess I could talk about scaling the team and scaling the product.
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So in the first couple of years when I was raising like what you probably now would call like the angel, pre-seed, seed, post-seed you know seed extension at the time you know there was all different fancy words for them, but we didn't go through an accelerator.
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I didn't have a tight network of engineer friends or mentors who had sold businesses before, so I was learning a lot the hard way.
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I actually didn't have a tech co-founder at first and so I hired a dev shop to build the whole product and I don't think I would recommend and I'm talking to you guys I don't think I would recommend like outsourcing your entire technical leadership if you're a tech startup, like that is your intellectual property, like you need to understand the code, understand where all the bodies are buried.
00:07:03.545 --> 00:07:16.870
Now, dev shops or outsourced development firms can be an extremely useful and cost effective way to scale up and down in a development of your team.
00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:31.906
But I relied a lot on that and I would just sort of build the spec myself and then like ship it overseas and then like wait for like a week or two and then they say here we go, and it was like terrible and then I'd have to go back and forth.
00:07:31.906 --> 00:07:33.786
So there wasn't like that iterative.
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You know, you got a co-founder of the room who's like it's three o'clock Saturday night in the morning and they can't sleep because they're thinking about like code and how to improve things, and you just got the cycle needs to be really great.
00:07:44.588 --> 00:07:50.327
So that was probably the biggest mistake that caused the first several years to be very slow.
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And the team that I had in New York it was, you know, a lot of interns and sort of like entry level marketing, slash content people, but the tech was mostly outsourced.
00:08:02.192 --> 00:08:06.285
Now sort of phase two of the company, we basically went out of business.
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We lost everybody.
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We couldn't raise more money from investors.
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We had hardly any revenue, lots of like free users, but we sort of couldn't figure out how to monetize.
00:08:15.348 --> 00:08:47.769
So we sort of collapsed and went down to like who people in 2016 and we have since rebuilt the business, mostly with full-time senior engineers, which took a lot of you know, selling the Kool-Aid, selling the vision, get them really understanding you know what we're really building it together and, at the end of the day, is much more than just flashcards in the direction that we're going and so that really helped us to get a handle on our code base, clean up just a ton.
00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:56.024
We've done so many overhauls over the last several years and get the user experience to just we're close to a 10 out of 10,.
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You know, nine out of 10, you're never super happy with it, but people who are using Brainscape to study just love it.
00:09:02.451 --> 00:09:09.918
You know we've had 10 million registered users over the years and 4.8 star rating on the App Store.
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And the effusive stories that people are always coming forth with about how we changed their life, we changed their study habits, we helped them pass an exam or finally learn or understand something that they weren't is just truly inspiring.
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I mean you've got parents of like autistic and ADD kids who say this is finally the tool that's working for us.
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So just across the board, you know so many different areas.
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We're really happy about helping to scale since then.
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Amazing.
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I really love impact driven entrepreneurs.
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I think it's so.
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It's cool because you're an entrepreneur, you want to make money, but you also have a purpose and you're making an impact and I Really admire that.
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It's awesome.
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I also wanted to ask how did let's not take over, but how did like lockdown and all that affect you in 2020?
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Because, if I was just thinking about it like, a lot of people had a lot of extra free time and wanted to.
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I Wanted to learn things, so did you see a spike in business during that time?
00:10:14.561 --> 00:10:16.426
We saw a change in business.
00:10:16.426 --> 00:10:18.030
That's a that's a great question.
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So, because Brainscape is used to study for a lot of exams, right, for that period a lot of exams weren't happening.
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A lot of teachers were saying, well, if I, if I can't, you know, proctor the exam myself in the room, I don't know who's cheating.
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So schools suspended a lot of exams and said we're not going to do exams anymore, we're gonna do.
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You know, you write a paper when you do, like a project, a lot of, even like the bar exam for lawyers, the nursing exam in New York.
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They needed, they needed nurses.
00:10:50.883 --> 00:10:58.412
They were like waving exam requirements Because people couldn't come into a test center and and pick the exam.
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Now, probably after six months, that a lot of that changed.
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Where you know, test centers would open, but with masks and and teachers were.
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We're starting to use more like online proctoring software.
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So that recovered.
00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:19.089
But we saw a huge, steep decline actually in Usage of Brainscape, which sort of violated the narrative.
00:11:19.089 --> 00:11:22.419
Everyone's like, oh my gosh, online learning, you must be kicking ass in COVID.
00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:23.808
Right, everybody does, does great.
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But we did see a dip there.
00:11:25.721 --> 00:11:31.100
But to the second point you said people have a lot of time on their hands to learn as sort of adult learners.
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We did see a surge In people who are like you know what, I'm gonna take this time to learn Spanish.
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I'm gonna take this time to sort of beef up on a whole bunch of trivia knowledge, or even, you know, even if I can't take the certification, you know now, it might be a three or six month you know learning process.
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So I'm sure the world's gonna open back up.
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I'm gonna start my study now.
00:11:53.529 --> 00:12:01.148
So a lot of the kind of outside of school Markets came to life in a different way and I think it really helped.
00:12:01.148 --> 00:12:11.860
It helped us to, you know, diversify our range of Usage even more, and I think our business has even been kind of slightly less cyclical since then too.
00:12:11.860 --> 00:12:22.927
Right, we always have a dip in the summer, obviously the summer vacation, but it's it's been even less as we've, as we've continued to grow out of that okay, amazing, and I Love that is.
00:12:23.652 --> 00:12:26.683
Are most of your users recurring clients?
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Is it and is it?
00:12:27.885 --> 00:12:32.595
Is it a subscription service or is it a free, free service?
00:12:33.442 --> 00:12:43.965
it is a freemium subscription model, mostly consumer, so meaning you could, you could sign up for free and Really you could do a lot for free.
00:12:43.965 --> 00:12:53.039
You can make flashcard for free, you could share them for free, you can collaborate for free and you can even discover other people's flashcards that are on the market and sort of demo them.
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But if you want to unlock other flashcards are certified publisher flashcards that you didn't make yourself or your friends didn't make, or if you want access to certain Premium features or statistics or you want to create a whole separate kind of private Area that's, that's secure and others can't access, then yeah, you would upgrade to to Brainscape Pro or or even if you're a school or we're gonna company training employees, sales people, you would buy a pro license for your organization, right, depending on how many proceeds you need.
00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:32.243
Okay, that's, that's awesome.
00:13:32.243 --> 00:13:34.486
I'm I'm definitely gonna sign up.
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I I'd like to challenge myself and teach myself random Random things and I'm just gonna become a pro at some sort of subject matter.
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I'm excited.
00:13:44.513 --> 00:13:53.445
I also wanted to ask, over the last like year and a half, with this whole AI revolution, how is that?
00:13:53.445 --> 00:14:03.230
If so, if it has, how has it affected your business, and are you making use of AI to how to make your business more efficient?
00:14:05.188 --> 00:14:10.976
Yeah, there's a couple of things that different teams are using to make processes more efficient.
00:14:10.976 --> 00:14:25.076
I think that there's a lot of cool tools out there for productivity that are solutions in search of a problem, that are cool, shiny objects that a lot of people are using but that I don't think are going to make as lasting of an impact.
00:14:25.076 --> 00:14:27.753
It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
00:14:27.753 --> 00:14:45.136
But, yes, sure, a 5 percent improvement in productivity maybe, but for our users, we actually think we can develop very, very useful tools to help transform users study material or instructional material into flashcards for them.
00:14:45.136 --> 00:14:49.054
We're not the first who's going to have done that.
00:14:49.054 --> 00:14:53.316
There's a lot of great tools and apps that are doing similar stuff.
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We're looking at how they're doing it and we're thinking about what our users truly want.
00:14:58.035 --> 00:15:05.332
We're going to do this the right and smart way and we're excited about it, but we haven't lost anything yet, much the space.
00:15:06.306 --> 00:15:06.927
Okay, amazing.
00:15:06.927 --> 00:15:08.933
I'm looking forward to seeing what's to come.
00:15:08.933 --> 00:15:16.953
Ask me again in six months, I will.
00:15:16.953 --> 00:15:19.399
You've had 10 million users over the years.
00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:27.015
If you don't mind me asking, how many are continuous users that stay on?
00:15:28.288 --> 00:15:40.254
Hundreds of thousands of monthly active users, when you've had a product for over a decade and where it's largely used for exam prep or by students in a class.
00:15:40.254 --> 00:15:51.495
If, in three months, you're not using Rainscape anymore, it's very likely because we succeeded, because you met your goal, and maybe you're not in school anymore.
00:15:51.495 --> 00:15:55.336
Yes, we do want to keep everybody learning something else.
00:15:55.336 --> 00:16:03.057
You graduated from medical school, you might also want to learn Spanish or you graduated from college.
00:16:03.085 --> 00:16:11.955
You're not going to grad school, but don't forget your college knowledge, keep studying it so you're not going to forget it after school.
00:16:11.955 --> 00:16:19.975
And yeah, 1% of people to 5% of people maybe are what we call the knowledge junkies, like that.
00:16:19.975 --> 00:16:36.472
So, yeah, there's a good bit of natural turnover, but we really thrive in those areas where you need such a tool for years, and that's why medical and law school and nursing school, where you are studying for several years, or foreign language you are studying for several years and you want the things.
00:16:36.472 --> 00:16:49.212
Maybe there is a word or phrase you're learning Spanish that you haven't seen in like two years, but it still might occasionally come up because we've scheduled it to say okay, the word albondiga for meatball.
00:16:50.105 --> 00:16:51.524
You haven't seen or heard of that in a long time.
00:16:51.524 --> 00:16:53.725
We're just going to make sure that you remember it.
00:16:53.725 --> 00:16:59.605
So languages especially, we have a lot of very long term retention on that.
00:16:59.605 --> 00:17:05.933
We have several people that have been using Grayscape almost daily for 10 years in foreign language acquisition.
00:17:06.972 --> 00:17:07.683
Oh, that's awesome.
00:17:07.683 --> 00:17:14.534
And so if you don't have much retention, what KPIs do you use to measure the success of your business?
00:17:16.144 --> 00:17:24.651
Well, I'd say we do have retention in the core markets Again, medical and law for years, but there's a lot of turnover in the others.
00:17:24.651 --> 00:17:29.817
I would say, obviously the onboarding experience right.
00:17:29.904 --> 00:17:58.569
So day two retention like how many people came back a second day it's sort of a big magic moment we're always trying to optimize for, Because most people who aren't retained next month it wasn't like oh, we lost them on day 27 or day like six, like we lost them in the first 90 seconds of the user experience really, and the more efforts that you put on sort of that steep part of the retention curve, the better you're going to end up doing.
00:17:58.569 --> 00:18:09.790
We also optimize for percent of users who upgrade, obviously, and then subscribe or turn.
00:18:09.790 --> 00:18:15.096
We optimize for content creation and content sharing.
00:18:15.096 --> 00:18:38.499
So the percentage of users that go on to create their own flashcards, the percentage of those people who share those flashcards, and then the number of average people that are invited to a particular class of flashcards, as we call it, all are indicators of growth that will stem from that.
00:18:39.661 --> 00:18:40.301
Okay, awesome.
00:18:40.301 --> 00:18:48.654
And is your revenue mostly generated by paid services or do you have ads on the platform?
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.304
We do not have ads on the platform.
00:18:51.304 --> 00:18:57.614
All of our revenue is either from user subscriptions or from organizationalizing this.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.162
Okay, amazing.
00:18:59.162 --> 00:18:59.884
I love that.
00:18:59.884 --> 00:19:06.705
No one likes an ad in their apps, so I want to ask you a question now.
00:19:06.705 --> 00:19:09.873
Feel free to tell me if you don't want to answer it.
00:19:09.873 --> 00:19:18.953
But what if you could rate your current position in business on a scale of 1 to 10, what would you rate it?
00:19:20.441 --> 00:19:21.282
0.1.
00:19:21.282 --> 00:19:28.119
We're always we're always in the beginning, man Like there's so much steam ahead.
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:43.939
We have dozens of Trello boards, each of which have hundreds of cards for features that we want to create, for initiatives that we want to take and for other ways that we could add value to our users and customers.
00:19:43.939 --> 00:19:50.613
So yeah, we're always so painfully early and there's never enough hours in the day.
00:19:51.863 --> 00:19:52.605
That's interesting.
00:19:52.605 --> 00:19:58.446
And if we were to meet again in 12 months and ask the same question where would you want to be in 12 months?
00:20:01.041 --> 00:20:03.286
What I want to be is 10 out of 10.
00:20:03.286 --> 00:20:04.768
Where do I think we're going to be?
00:20:04.768 --> 00:20:06.971
Probably 0.01.
00:20:06.971 --> 00:20:12.048
So even a tenth less along the way.
00:20:12.048 --> 00:20:26.140
Not because we've gone backward, but because the extent of the vision and the ideas that the team keeps coming up with just continues to grow in fun and overwhelming ways.
00:20:27.122 --> 00:20:27.563
I love that.
00:20:27.563 --> 00:20:31.770
That's such a super interesting answer, but it makes so much sense.
00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:32.573
I appreciate that.
00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:38.652
And so much of the growth potential and the ideas comes from our users.
00:20:38.652 --> 00:20:53.229
The Discord channel that we have for our power users is constantly teaming with feature requests and improvements that people want to the app, which is just such a great sign of how passionate our users are.
00:20:53.229 --> 00:21:10.755
And the challenge is, everybody has a different vision for what the product should turn into, and so really like organizing the ideas and prioritizing the product roadmap becomes one of the most challenging business problems to solve.
00:21:11.661 --> 00:21:12.602
I could only imagine.
00:21:12.602 --> 00:21:24.140
So, andrew, we are running out of time now, but I wanted to ask if you could give one piece of advice to business owners looking to enter the EdTech space.
00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:25.345
What would it be?
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:26.682
Don't do it.
00:21:26.682 --> 00:21:47.308
Talk to as many people as you can in your target market about your business before you write a line of code or develop a single piece of marketing, and don't worry at all that somebody is going to steal your idea.
00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:50.663
And the reality is that somebody is probably the most common entrepreneur.
00:21:50.663 --> 00:21:57.834
First time entrepreneur fear is that I can't really tell people my idea, especially, you know, people who are too close to my space.
00:21:57.834 --> 00:21:59.621
What if they steal it?
00:22:00.382 --> 00:22:06.073
And the reality is, if your idea was that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:06.073 --> 00:22:12.547
And if your idea is that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:12.547 --> 00:22:22.086
And if your idea is that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:22.086 --> 00:22:32.028
And everything that they're doing and completely pivot and go after your idea in the same passionate way that you would.
00:22:32.028 --> 00:22:35.232
So tell everyone about your idea and they're going to tell you why it's stupid.
00:22:35.232 --> 00:22:36.875
And it's going to make you refine your pitch.
00:22:36.875 --> 00:22:50.115
It's going to make you refine what your value proposition is and either validate or invalidate your business so that you can create the right ingredients for your own success in the right order of operations.
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.662
I appreciate that so much.
00:22:52.662 --> 00:22:57.990
I actually saw a LinkedIn post today discussing how competition is super healthy.
00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:09.153
If someone copies you, that's like a really good sign, exactly, and it just teaches you how to overcome and be better and just innovate, and, innovate and innovate, and I love that.
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:10.282
Market validation.
00:23:10.282 --> 00:23:15.898
You know there's there's hundreds of flashcard apps out there and people ask me you know, are you worried about that?
00:23:15.898 --> 00:23:22.140
I said if there weren't hundreds of flashcard apps out there, it would mean people don't really want flashcards that bad.
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.469
But people really really want flashcard apps and they want one desperately.
00:23:27.469 --> 00:23:28.790
That is just great.
00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:37.423
It's convenient, it's effective, it's secure and all the things that Brainscape is able to offer for our customers 100% Well.
00:23:38.125 --> 00:23:40.432
thank you so much, andrew, for being on the show.
00:23:40.432 --> 00:23:43.160
I've really enjoyed learning more about you and your business.
00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:51.252
What would the best way for people be to get in touch with you or to find Brainscape?
00:23:51.252 --> 00:23:51.994
Where can they find you?
00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:53.602
We are everywhere.
00:23:53.602 --> 00:24:04.140
Type Brainscape into any search bar and web browser and the app store, instagram, tiktok, linkedin, twitter.
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.865
Brainscape is everywhere.
00:24:05.865 --> 00:24:17.053
I am personally in a couple of those places, primarily Twitter and LinkedIn, so you could find me there if you want to reach out and have a good way that we might be able to work together.
00:24:17.053 --> 00:24:20.160
And, in general, if you're checking out Brainscape, it means you're probably learning something.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:26.053
So best of luck everyone out there on your learning, and YouTube don't if you end up checking it out.
00:24:26.820 --> 00:24:27.582
I will for sure.
00:24:27.582 --> 00:24:28.903
Thank you so much again.
00:24:28.903 --> 00:24:30.404
All right, YouTube.
00:00:03.326 --> 00:00:07.033
Welcome back to the growing Lean podcast sponsored by Lean Discovery Group.
00:00:07.033 --> 00:00:10.268
This is your host, dylan Burke, also known as Deej.
00:00:10.268 --> 00:00:15.326
I'm very happy to be here with Andrew Cohen, founder and CEO of Brainscape.
00:00:15.326 --> 00:00:18.271
Welcome, andrew, good to be here.
00:00:18.271 --> 00:00:21.324
Thanks, dylan, amazing Good to have you here.
00:00:21.324 --> 00:00:30.371
So, to get us started, can you give us a little bit of a background of yourself, firstly, and how you ended up in the business you're in today?
00:00:30.391 --> 00:00:31.638
Sure.
00:00:31.638 --> 00:00:34.427
So I actually was trained as an economist.
00:00:34.427 --> 00:00:51.767
In undergrad I worked for the US government, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and then for the World Bank in Panama on a controversial anti-corruption project and along the way towards solving that problem down there, I had to get really good at Spanish and I was a Spanish minor.
00:00:51.767 --> 00:00:52.167
In school.
00:00:52.167 --> 00:00:53.545
I was using Rosetta Stone.
00:00:53.545 --> 00:00:57.610
I had tutors, but nothing was efficient enough for me.
00:00:57.719 --> 00:01:06.808
So I ended up building the first version of Brainscape myself, started as a Microsoft Excel macro, and then it just sort of started spiraling.
00:01:06.808 --> 00:01:14.606
People wanted to use it for themselves and this thing goes viral over email and Panama and so I pivoted my career.
00:01:14.606 --> 00:01:25.671
Actually, I got a master's degree in education technology and used all the cognitive science research that I was coming up with in school to sort of become the Brainscape white paper.
00:01:25.671 --> 00:01:37.650
I got some engineering co-founders and then proceeded to make hundreds of mistakes, like every first time entrepreneur does, and learned a lot in the school of hard knocks.
00:01:37.650 --> 00:01:48.406
Now, over more than a decade of growing Brainscape as a first venture backed company and now a profitable business, which is suddenly sexy these days.
00:01:50.081 --> 00:01:50.524
Amazing.
00:01:50.524 --> 00:01:53.046
And when did you start the business?
00:01:53.307 --> 00:01:56.430
How long ago was that, believe it or not, 2009.
00:01:56.450 --> 00:01:58.060
Okay, well, so so it's been a minute.
00:01:58.941 --> 00:02:02.391
Yeah, we're like the oldest startup in New York, so to speak.
00:02:02.391 --> 00:02:09.111
You haven't had an exit, but are continuing to grow and we've got a really great team.
00:02:09.932 --> 00:02:10.373
Amazing.
00:02:10.373 --> 00:02:13.640
And so what exactly is Brainscape, is it?
00:02:13.640 --> 00:02:17.766
You said it's in the education sector, so what exactly does it do?
00:02:17.787 --> 00:02:21.117
Yeah, I think of Bracescape like flashcards on steroids.
00:02:21.117 --> 00:02:31.574
So you can make flashcards through a web browser, you can find them created by other users, collaborate with them, sort of almost like an Evernote for flashcards.
00:02:31.574 --> 00:02:35.675
And then there's a marketplace of publisher creative materials as well.
00:02:35.675 --> 00:03:04.735
So anything that you would study with flashcards from early childhood learning your dinosaurs or ABCs all the way through medical school, nursing school, law school we actually tend to be the most popular in those very higher ed, high stakes certifications where you just have months and months or years of information, tens of thousands of little facts, that the study process is just such a stressful thing.
00:03:04.735 --> 00:03:12.076
We help make it a lot less stressful and the real secret sauce is the cognitive science behind how they work.
00:03:12.270 --> 00:03:18.276
So flashcards themselves already offer if you've got active recall, you're thinking of the answer from scratch.
00:03:18.276 --> 00:03:23.918
Rather than just recognizing multiple choice, You're assessing how well did I really know this?
00:03:23.918 --> 00:03:27.138
The easy pile, the hard pile, the medium pile.
00:03:27.138 --> 00:03:30.139
So flashcards are already a really great tool.
00:03:30.139 --> 00:03:35.897
But where Bracescape adds the value is the automated spaced repetition algorithm.
00:03:35.897 --> 00:03:58.396
So as you rate your confidence and how well you knew it it's actually a one to five scale we determine how frequently it should show up, and there's just so much cognitive science research that shows the single most important factor in your ability to retain knowledge is getting that interval of time right in between each exposure.
00:03:58.870 --> 00:04:05.020
Ideally the longest possible interval before you would have otherwise forgotten the material.
00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:13.078
And if you can schedule each individual repetition in that way, you're optimizing your personal learning stream.
00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:14.540
That's amazing.
00:04:14.540 --> 00:04:15.081
I love that.
00:04:15.081 --> 00:04:16.814
And the information?
00:04:16.814 --> 00:04:21.817
Is it user generated or where does the information come from?
00:04:22.670 --> 00:04:23.434
Yeah, again, it's both.
00:04:23.434 --> 00:04:27.000
So you can make your own flashcards as sort of like your own tool.
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:29.415
You could make them in the app, you can make them in a web browser.
00:04:29.415 --> 00:04:31.877
You could upload spreadsheets of content.
00:04:31.877 --> 00:04:34.577
You can collaborate with your classmates.
00:04:34.577 --> 00:04:38.360
So, OK, I set up Biology 101 in Bracescape.
00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:40.697
Guys I'll make the flashcards for chapter 1.
00:04:40.697 --> 00:04:42.536
Dylan you make them for chapter 2.
00:04:42.536 --> 00:04:43.956
Mary you make them for chapter 3.
00:04:43.956 --> 00:04:45.456
So we get sort of a collaborative group.
00:04:45.456 --> 00:04:49.992
We get headed each other's stuff and adjust permission settings.
00:04:49.992 --> 00:04:56.117
If you need, A teacher or an instructor or a school can create the material or can sort of organize it.
00:04:56.117 --> 00:05:18.815
But then we also have partnerships with publishers where we'll sort of have flashcardized material that aligns to their book or their exam prep guide or their course online if they have sort of an online course and deliver Bracescape as sort of the perfect mobile complementary study tool.
00:05:18.836 --> 00:05:19.497
that goes with it.
00:05:19.497 --> 00:05:21.002
Amazing.
00:05:21.002 --> 00:05:23.057
I wish I had this when I was still in school.
00:05:23.057 --> 00:05:24.956
I feel like I would have helped a lot.
00:05:26.211 --> 00:05:32.790
It's not too late to start learning other languages in Bracescape, or there's so many wine enthusiasts.
00:05:32.790 --> 00:05:43.598
Wine is actually our biggest subject area right now for the certification market the WSCT exams, the Somalia exams, so yeah not too late then?
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.254
Amazing, I'll have a look after this for sure.
00:05:46.254 --> 00:05:49.415
What interface are you using?
00:05:49.415 --> 00:05:50.293
Is it a mobile app?
00:05:52.209 --> 00:05:54.293
Yeah, it's a web browser and a mobile app exactly.
00:05:55.115 --> 00:05:56.899
OK, amazing, and I'll see you in the next one.
00:05:56.899 --> 00:06:04.129
Can you tell me about how you've scaled from the beginning, like what have been your major milestones up until today?
00:06:05.860 --> 00:06:08.786
I guess I could talk about scaling the team and scaling the product.
00:06:08.786 --> 00:06:27.050
So in the first couple of years when I was raising like what you probably now would call like the angel, pre-seed, seed, post-seed you know seed extension at the time you know there was all different fancy words for them, but we didn't go through an accelerator.
00:06:27.050 --> 00:06:40.668
I didn't have a tight network of engineer friends or mentors who had sold businesses before, so I was learning a lot the hard way.
00:06:40.668 --> 00:07:03.545
I actually didn't have a tech co-founder at first and so I hired a dev shop to build the whole product and I don't think I would recommend and I'm talking to you guys I don't think I would recommend like outsourcing your entire technical leadership if you're a tech startup, like that is your intellectual property, like you need to understand the code, understand where all the bodies are buried.
00:07:03.545 --> 00:07:16.870
Now, dev shops or outsourced development firms can be an extremely useful and cost effective way to scale up and down in a development of your team.
00:07:16.870 --> 00:07:31.906
But I relied a lot on that and I would just sort of build the spec myself and then like ship it overseas and then like wait for like a week or two and then they say here we go, and it was like terrible and then I'd have to go back and forth.
00:07:31.906 --> 00:07:33.786
So there wasn't like that iterative.
00:07:33.786 --> 00:07:44.588
You know, you got a co-founder of the room who's like it's three o'clock Saturday night in the morning and they can't sleep because they're thinking about like code and how to improve things, and you just got the cycle needs to be really great.
00:07:44.588 --> 00:07:50.327
So that was probably the biggest mistake that caused the first several years to be very slow.
00:07:51.944 --> 00:08:02.192
And the team that I had in New York it was, you know, a lot of interns and sort of like entry level marketing, slash content people, but the tech was mostly outsourced.
00:08:02.192 --> 00:08:06.285
Now sort of phase two of the company, we basically went out of business.
00:08:06.285 --> 00:08:07.910
We lost everybody.
00:08:07.910 --> 00:08:09.627
We couldn't raise more money from investors.
00:08:09.627 --> 00:08:15.348
We had hardly any revenue, lots of like free users, but we sort of couldn't figure out how to monetize.
00:08:15.348 --> 00:08:47.769
So we sort of collapsed and went down to like who people in 2016 and we have since rebuilt the business, mostly with full-time senior engineers, which took a lot of you know, selling the Kool-Aid, selling the vision, get them really understanding you know what we're really building it together and, at the end of the day, is much more than just flashcards in the direction that we're going and so that really helped us to get a handle on our code base, clean up just a ton.
00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:56.024
We've done so many overhauls over the last several years and get the user experience to just we're close to a 10 out of 10,.
00:08:56.024 --> 00:09:02.451
You know, nine out of 10, you're never super happy with it, but people who are using Brainscape to study just love it.
00:09:02.451 --> 00:09:09.918
You know we've had 10 million registered users over the years and 4.8 star rating on the App Store.
00:09:09.918 --> 00:09:24.599
And the effusive stories that people are always coming forth with about how we changed their life, we changed their study habits, we helped them pass an exam or finally learn or understand something that they weren't is just truly inspiring.
00:09:24.599 --> 00:09:30.215
I mean you've got parents of like autistic and ADD kids who say this is finally the tool that's working for us.
00:09:30.215 --> 00:09:33.799
So just across the board, you know so many different areas.
00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.198
We're really happy about helping to scale since then.
00:09:39.029 --> 00:09:39.392
Amazing.
00:09:39.392 --> 00:09:40.679
I really love impact driven entrepreneurs.
00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:42.673
I think it's so.
00:09:42.673 --> 00:09:51.664
It's cool because you're an entrepreneur, you want to make money, but you also have a purpose and you're making an impact and I Really admire that.
00:09:51.664 --> 00:09:52.347
It's awesome.
00:09:52.347 --> 00:10:02.291
I also wanted to ask how did let's not take over, but how did like lockdown and all that affect you in 2020?
00:10:02.291 --> 00:10:08.673
Because, if I was just thinking about it like, a lot of people had a lot of extra free time and wanted to.
00:10:08.673 --> 00:10:13.511
I Wanted to learn things, so did you see a spike in business during that time?
00:10:14.561 --> 00:10:16.426
We saw a change in business.
00:10:16.426 --> 00:10:18.030
That's a that's a great question.
00:10:18.030 --> 00:10:27.489
So, because Brainscape is used to study for a lot of exams, right, for that period a lot of exams weren't happening.
00:10:27.489 --> 00:10:34.279
A lot of teachers were saying, well, if I, if I can't, you know, proctor the exam myself in the room, I don't know who's cheating.
00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:40.591
So schools suspended a lot of exams and said we're not going to do exams anymore, we're gonna do.
00:10:40.591 --> 00:10:49.634
You know, you write a paper when you do, like a project, a lot of, even like the bar exam for lawyers, the nursing exam in New York.
00:10:49.634 --> 00:10:50.883
They needed, they needed nurses.
00:10:50.883 --> 00:10:58.412
They were like waving exam requirements Because people couldn't come into a test center and and pick the exam.
00:10:58.412 --> 00:11:02.539
Now, probably after six months, that a lot of that changed.
00:11:02.539 --> 00:11:08.405
Where you know, test centers would open, but with masks and and teachers were.
00:11:08.405 --> 00:11:11.278
We're starting to use more like online proctoring software.
00:11:11.278 --> 00:11:11.879
So that recovered.
00:11:11.980 --> 00:11:19.089
But we saw a huge, steep decline actually in Usage of Brainscape, which sort of violated the narrative.
00:11:19.089 --> 00:11:22.419
Everyone's like, oh my gosh, online learning, you must be kicking ass in COVID.
00:11:22.419 --> 00:11:23.808
Right, everybody does, does great.
00:11:23.808 --> 00:11:25.360
But we did see a dip there.
00:11:25.721 --> 00:11:31.100
But to the second point you said people have a lot of time on their hands to learn as sort of adult learners.
00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:37.532
We did see a surge In people who are like you know what, I'm gonna take this time to learn Spanish.
00:11:37.532 --> 00:11:50.399
I'm gonna take this time to sort of beef up on a whole bunch of trivia knowledge, or even, you know, even if I can't take the certification, you know now, it might be a three or six month you know learning process.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.166
So I'm sure the world's gonna open back up.
00:11:52.166 --> 00:11:53.529
I'm gonna start my study now.
00:11:53.529 --> 00:12:01.148
So a lot of the kind of outside of school Markets came to life in a different way and I think it really helped.
00:12:01.148 --> 00:12:11.860
It helped us to, you know, diversify our range of Usage even more, and I think our business has even been kind of slightly less cyclical since then too.
00:12:11.860 --> 00:12:22.927
Right, we always have a dip in the summer, obviously the summer vacation, but it's it's been even less as we've, as we've continued to grow out of that okay, amazing, and I Love that is.
00:12:23.652 --> 00:12:26.683
Are most of your users recurring clients?
00:12:26.683 --> 00:12:27.885
Is it and is it?
00:12:27.885 --> 00:12:32.595
Is it a subscription service or is it a free, free service?
00:12:33.442 --> 00:12:43.965
it is a freemium subscription model, mostly consumer, so meaning you could, you could sign up for free and Really you could do a lot for free.
00:12:43.965 --> 00:12:53.039
You can make flashcard for free, you could share them for free, you can collaborate for free and you can even discover other people's flashcards that are on the market and sort of demo them.
00:12:53.039 --> 00:13:30.054
But if you want to unlock other flashcards are certified publisher flashcards that you didn't make yourself or your friends didn't make, or if you want access to certain Premium features or statistics or you want to create a whole separate kind of private Area that's, that's secure and others can't access, then yeah, you would upgrade to to Brainscape Pro or or even if you're a school or we're gonna company training employees, sales people, you would buy a pro license for your organization, right, depending on how many proceeds you need.
00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:32.243
Okay, that's, that's awesome.
00:13:32.243 --> 00:13:34.486
I'm I'm definitely gonna sign up.
00:13:34.486 --> 00:13:43.390
I I'd like to challenge myself and teach myself random Random things and I'm just gonna become a pro at some sort of subject matter.
00:13:43.390 --> 00:13:44.513
I'm excited.
00:13:44.513 --> 00:13:53.445
I also wanted to ask, over the last like year and a half, with this whole AI revolution, how is that?
00:13:53.445 --> 00:14:03.230
If so, if it has, how has it affected your business, and are you making use of AI to how to make your business more efficient?
00:14:05.188 --> 00:14:10.976
Yeah, there's a couple of things that different teams are using to make processes more efficient.
00:14:10.976 --> 00:14:25.076
I think that there's a lot of cool tools out there for productivity that are solutions in search of a problem, that are cool, shiny objects that a lot of people are using but that I don't think are going to make as lasting of an impact.
00:14:25.076 --> 00:14:27.753
It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
00:14:27.753 --> 00:14:45.136
But, yes, sure, a 5 percent improvement in productivity maybe, but for our users, we actually think we can develop very, very useful tools to help transform users study material or instructional material into flashcards for them.
00:14:45.136 --> 00:14:49.054
We're not the first who's going to have done that.
00:14:49.054 --> 00:14:53.316
There's a lot of great tools and apps that are doing similar stuff.
00:14:53.316 --> 00:14:58.035
We're looking at how they're doing it and we're thinking about what our users truly want.
00:14:58.035 --> 00:15:05.332
We're going to do this the right and smart way and we're excited about it, but we haven't lost anything yet, much the space.
00:15:06.306 --> 00:15:06.927
Okay, amazing.
00:15:06.927 --> 00:15:08.933
I'm looking forward to seeing what's to come.
00:15:08.933 --> 00:15:16.953
Ask me again in six months, I will.
00:15:16.953 --> 00:15:19.399
You've had 10 million users over the years.
00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:27.015
If you don't mind me asking, how many are continuous users that stay on?
00:15:28.288 --> 00:15:40.254
Hundreds of thousands of monthly active users, when you've had a product for over a decade and where it's largely used for exam prep or by students in a class.
00:15:40.254 --> 00:15:51.495
If, in three months, you're not using Rainscape anymore, it's very likely because we succeeded, because you met your goal, and maybe you're not in school anymore.
00:15:51.495 --> 00:15:55.336
Yes, we do want to keep everybody learning something else.
00:15:55.336 --> 00:16:03.057
You graduated from medical school, you might also want to learn Spanish or you graduated from college.
00:16:03.085 --> 00:16:11.955
You're not going to grad school, but don't forget your college knowledge, keep studying it so you're not going to forget it after school.
00:16:11.955 --> 00:16:19.975
And yeah, 1% of people to 5% of people maybe are what we call the knowledge junkies, like that.
00:16:19.975 --> 00:16:36.472
So, yeah, there's a good bit of natural turnover, but we really thrive in those areas where you need such a tool for years, and that's why medical and law school and nursing school, where you are studying for several years, or foreign language you are studying for several years and you want the things.
00:16:36.472 --> 00:16:49.212
Maybe there is a word or phrase you're learning Spanish that you haven't seen in like two years, but it still might occasionally come up because we've scheduled it to say okay, the word albondiga for meatball.
00:16:50.105 --> 00:16:51.524
You haven't seen or heard of that in a long time.
00:16:51.524 --> 00:16:53.725
We're just going to make sure that you remember it.
00:16:53.725 --> 00:16:59.605
So languages especially, we have a lot of very long term retention on that.
00:16:59.605 --> 00:17:05.933
We have several people that have been using Grayscape almost daily for 10 years in foreign language acquisition.
00:17:06.972 --> 00:17:07.683
Oh, that's awesome.
00:17:07.683 --> 00:17:14.534
And so if you don't have much retention, what KPIs do you use to measure the success of your business?
00:17:16.144 --> 00:17:24.651
Well, I'd say we do have retention in the core markets Again, medical and law for years, but there's a lot of turnover in the others.
00:17:24.651 --> 00:17:29.817
I would say, obviously the onboarding experience right.
00:17:29.904 --> 00:17:58.569
So day two retention like how many people came back a second day it's sort of a big magic moment we're always trying to optimize for, Because most people who aren't retained next month it wasn't like oh, we lost them on day 27 or day like six, like we lost them in the first 90 seconds of the user experience really, and the more efforts that you put on sort of that steep part of the retention curve, the better you're going to end up doing.
00:17:58.569 --> 00:18:09.790
We also optimize for percent of users who upgrade, obviously, and then subscribe or turn.
00:18:09.790 --> 00:18:15.096
We optimize for content creation and content sharing.
00:18:15.096 --> 00:18:38.499
So the percentage of users that go on to create their own flashcards, the percentage of those people who share those flashcards, and then the number of average people that are invited to a particular class of flashcards, as we call it, all are indicators of growth that will stem from that.
00:18:39.661 --> 00:18:40.301
Okay, awesome.
00:18:40.301 --> 00:18:48.654
And is your revenue mostly generated by paid services or do you have ads on the platform?
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.304
We do not have ads on the platform.
00:18:51.304 --> 00:18:57.614
All of our revenue is either from user subscriptions or from organizationalizing this.
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.162
Okay, amazing.
00:18:59.162 --> 00:18:59.884
I love that.
00:18:59.884 --> 00:19:06.705
No one likes an ad in their apps, so I want to ask you a question now.
00:19:06.705 --> 00:19:09.873
Feel free to tell me if you don't want to answer it.
00:19:09.873 --> 00:19:18.953
But what if you could rate your current position in business on a scale of 1 to 10, what would you rate it?
00:19:20.441 --> 00:19:21.282
0.1.
00:19:21.282 --> 00:19:28.119
We're always we're always in the beginning, man Like there's so much steam ahead.
00:19:28.119 --> 00:19:43.939
We have dozens of Trello boards, each of which have hundreds of cards for features that we want to create, for initiatives that we want to take and for other ways that we could add value to our users and customers.
00:19:43.939 --> 00:19:50.613
So yeah, we're always so painfully early and there's never enough hours in the day.
00:19:51.863 --> 00:19:52.605
That's interesting.
00:19:52.605 --> 00:19:58.446
And if we were to meet again in 12 months and ask the same question where would you want to be in 12 months?
00:20:01.041 --> 00:20:03.286
What I want to be is 10 out of 10.
00:20:03.286 --> 00:20:04.768
Where do I think we're going to be?
00:20:04.768 --> 00:20:06.971
Probably 0.01.
00:20:06.971 --> 00:20:12.048
So even a tenth less along the way.
00:20:12.048 --> 00:20:26.140
Not because we've gone backward, but because the extent of the vision and the ideas that the team keeps coming up with just continues to grow in fun and overwhelming ways.
00:20:27.122 --> 00:20:27.563
I love that.
00:20:27.563 --> 00:20:31.770
That's such a super interesting answer, but it makes so much sense.
00:20:31.770 --> 00:20:32.573
I appreciate that.
00:20:33.780 --> 00:20:38.652
And so much of the growth potential and the ideas comes from our users.
00:20:38.652 --> 00:20:53.229
The Discord channel that we have for our power users is constantly teaming with feature requests and improvements that people want to the app, which is just such a great sign of how passionate our users are.
00:20:53.229 --> 00:21:10.755
And the challenge is, everybody has a different vision for what the product should turn into, and so really like organizing the ideas and prioritizing the product roadmap becomes one of the most challenging business problems to solve.
00:21:11.661 --> 00:21:12.602
I could only imagine.
00:21:12.602 --> 00:21:24.140
So, andrew, we are running out of time now, but I wanted to ask if you could give one piece of advice to business owners looking to enter the EdTech space.
00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:25.345
What would it be?
00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:26.682
Don't do it.
00:21:26.682 --> 00:21:47.308
Talk to as many people as you can in your target market about your business before you write a line of code or develop a single piece of marketing, and don't worry at all that somebody is going to steal your idea.
00:21:47.308 --> 00:21:50.663
And the reality is that somebody is probably the most common entrepreneur.
00:21:50.663 --> 00:21:57.834
First time entrepreneur fear is that I can't really tell people my idea, especially, you know, people who are too close to my space.
00:21:57.834 --> 00:21:59.621
What if they steal it?
00:22:00.382 --> 00:22:06.073
And the reality is, if your idea was that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:06.073 --> 00:22:12.547
And if your idea is that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:12.547 --> 00:22:22.086
And if your idea is that good, somebody probably would have built it already.
00:22:22.086 --> 00:22:32.028
And everything that they're doing and completely pivot and go after your idea in the same passionate way that you would.
00:22:32.028 --> 00:22:35.232
So tell everyone about your idea and they're going to tell you why it's stupid.
00:22:35.232 --> 00:22:36.875
And it's going to make you refine your pitch.
00:22:36.875 --> 00:22:50.115
It's going to make you refine what your value proposition is and either validate or invalidate your business so that you can create the right ingredients for your own success in the right order of operations.
00:22:51.299 --> 00:22:52.662
I appreciate that so much.
00:22:52.662 --> 00:22:57.990
I actually saw a LinkedIn post today discussing how competition is super healthy.
00:22:57.990 --> 00:23:09.153
If someone copies you, that's like a really good sign, exactly, and it just teaches you how to overcome and be better and just innovate, and, innovate and innovate, and I love that.
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:10.282
Market validation.
00:23:10.282 --> 00:23:15.898
You know there's there's hundreds of flashcard apps out there and people ask me you know, are you worried about that?
00:23:15.898 --> 00:23:22.140
I said if there weren't hundreds of flashcard apps out there, it would mean people don't really want flashcards that bad.
00:23:22.140 --> 00:23:27.469
But people really really want flashcard apps and they want one desperately.
00:23:27.469 --> 00:23:28.790
That is just great.
00:23:28.790 --> 00:23:37.423
It's convenient, it's effective, it's secure and all the things that Brainscape is able to offer for our customers 100% Well.
00:23:38.125 --> 00:23:40.432
thank you so much, andrew, for being on the show.
00:23:40.432 --> 00:23:43.160
I've really enjoyed learning more about you and your business.
00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:51.252
What would the best way for people be to get in touch with you or to find Brainscape?
00:23:51.252 --> 00:23:51.994
Where can they find you?
00:23:52.540 --> 00:23:53.602
We are everywhere.
00:23:53.602 --> 00:24:04.140
Type Brainscape into any search bar and web browser and the app store, instagram, tiktok, linkedin, twitter.
00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:05.865
Brainscape is everywhere.
00:24:05.865 --> 00:24:17.053
I am personally in a couple of those places, primarily Twitter and LinkedIn, so you could find me there if you want to reach out and have a good way that we might be able to work together.
00:24:17.053 --> 00:24:20.160
And, in general, if you're checking out Brainscape, it means you're probably learning something.
00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:26.053
So best of luck everyone out there on your learning, and YouTube don't if you end up checking it out.
00:24:26.820 --> 00:24:27.582
I will for sure.
00:24:27.582 --> 00:24:28.903
Thank you so much again.
00:24:28.903 --> 00:24:30.404
All right, YouTube.
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