WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 -->
00:00:04.320So at the breakfast table, I was talking about it, and my uncle says to me, Well, I wouldn't work for you.
00:00:04.320 -->
00:00:05.759I'd never work for a woman.
00:00:05.759 -->
00:00:07.759I knew that's what people thought about me.
00:00:07.759 -->
00:00:12.320One of the closest persons in the world to me said he wouldn't work for me because I was a woman.
00:00:12.320 -->
00:00:17.199I didn't go into any of these situations naive at all.
00:00:17.199 -->
00:00:24.480I had every understanding that I was an outsider and I was in a place you know, men didn't want to work for me.
00:00:24.480 -->
00:00:28.160And I had men, you know, say to my face, I'm not working for you or I don't want to work for you.
00:00:28.160 -->
00:00:31.519And they weren't saying anything to me that my own family hadn't said to me.
00:00:31.519 -->
00:00:39.359So I think there's something where you have to decide is what you want or the goals worth working through the situation.
00:00:39.359 -->
00:00:46.320And in my case, the ability to be in the auto industry, to be successful, to run factories.
00:00:46.320 -->
00:00:47.920You know, I grew up very poor.
00:00:47.920 -->
00:00:51.439So having a lifestyle that was like other people's lifestyle.
00:00:51.439 -->
00:00:53.280It was never gonna be my lifestyle.
00:00:53.280 -->
00:01:00.000So having that lifestyle and that ability to have security, you know, I didn't have security growing up.
00:01:00.000 -->
00:01:04.640So the most important thing in my life was this is a job that gives me security.
00:01:04.640 -->
00:01:08.640So I'm gonna figure out how to work with all these other things.
00:01:08.640 -->
00:01:10.719And should I put up with what I put up with?
00:01:10.719 -->
00:01:11.200No.
00:01:11.200 -->
00:01:15.599I mean, when I look back now, I think about so many things I should have done differently.
00:01:15.599 -->
00:01:18.799But, you know, it was a different time and place, and I went with a different person.
00:01:18.799 -->
00:01:19.920Part of it's crit.
00:01:19.920 -->
00:01:23.760Part of it is, you know, I had my eye on what was important to me.
00:01:23.760 -->
00:01:27.120Part of it, I think, was because of the generation I was from.
00:01:27.120 -->
00:01:31.760I was never naive to the fact of how difficult the roles that I was taking were gonna be.
00:01:31.760 -->
00:01:32.879But take those chances.
00:01:32.879 -->
00:01:39.439I've had good, I've had bad in the chances I've taken, but I don't regret any of them that I've taken.
00:01:39.439 -->
00:01:40.719There are lessons I've learned.
00:01:40.719 -->
00:01:42.239Be kinder to yourself.
00:01:42.239 -->
00:01:44.719And if if you want something, go for it.
00:01:45.040 -->
00:01:49.200Welcome to Grand Slam Journey, where sport, business, and technology collide.
00:01:49.200 -->
00:01:51.120I'm your host, Clara Egoshova.
00:01:51.120 -->
00:01:56.959This podcast is for anyone riding their next chapter, inspired by lessons sport has taught us.
00:01:56.959 -->
00:01:58.560The mindset is transferable.
00:01:58.560 -->
00:02:00.000Subscribe and let's go.
00:02:00.000 -->
00:02:00.959Hello, Susan.
00:02:00.959 -->
00:02:03.439Welcome to the Grand Slam Journey podcast.
00:02:03.760 -->
00:02:04.560Yes, thank you.
00:02:04.560 -->
00:02:05.120Welcome.
00:02:05.120 -->
00:02:07.439I appreciate you uh having me today.
00:02:07.599 -->
00:02:08.400I'm thrilled.
00:02:08.400 -->
00:02:19.439Your profile came to me through a mutual connection of hours running that um I had on the pod, and it's always a pleasure to meet other leaders that are part of the C200.
00:02:19.439 -->
00:02:24.400I've been diving into your background in the past few weeks and your book.
00:02:24.400 -->
00:02:39.120You grew up in Granite City, Illinois, a working-class town where the air itself uh told something about the cost of the industry, which I know will dive into it and how you're actually taking it now, even in your career, towards sustainability.
00:02:39.120 -->
00:02:55.759You left that town and spent um nearly four decades building one of the most remarkable careers I've come across from Ford, Tunisan, Bloom Energy, boardrooms, plant floors, IPOs, turnarounds.
00:02:55.759 -->
00:03:06.639And so if there's one thing that really stands out maybe early on, is your ability to make sense of and operate in chaos and thrive in that environment.
00:03:06.639 -->
00:03:20.400But the career itself is only one part of your story, and what you have been carrying through all of it, and perhaps even more importantly, what you've chosen to do with it is really another part that I look forward to diving into.
00:03:20.400 -->
00:03:29.039So you're a leader, a founder, an advisor to the next generation of tech companies and the author of a book called Still Standing.
00:03:29.039 -->
00:03:31.280Love having you on the podcast, Susan.
00:03:31.280 -->
00:03:38.800Thank you for being a guest and want to hand it over to you for a quick introduction before we dive into your grand slam journey.
00:03:38.800 -->
00:03:41.360What would you want the audience to know about you?
00:03:41.599 -->
00:03:44.000Well, thank you for that uh that summary.
00:03:44.000 -->
00:03:47.599I like how you kind of put the the flow of my life together.
00:03:47.599 -->
00:03:50.080You did a pretty good job of introducing me.
00:03:50.080 -->
00:03:54.639I think maybe to to kind of summarize some of the bigger concepts.
00:03:54.639 -->
00:04:03.520As you talked about, I'm someone who can thrive in chaos, I can manage chaos, but I think maybe the best way to say is kind of organize chaos.
00:04:03.520 -->
00:04:10.319I'm a person who thinks about and plans for the future, but I'm always in the present.
00:04:10.319 -->
00:04:15.199So there was a movie quite some time ago, and I one of these days I'll I'll look it up.
00:04:15.199 -->
00:04:28.639But the the a young man was a golfer and he his dad was a a janitor, and this was maybe set in the 1800s and early early 1900s, and he kind of snuck on to taught himself how to play golf and he became very successful.
00:04:28.639 -->
00:04:35.759But in the movie, they show him when he goes up to the tee or he goes up to hit the ball, and all the crowds on the side go away.
00:04:35.759 -->
00:04:38.000And it's just him, you know, and the goal.
00:04:38.000 -->
00:04:50.639And that's kind of how I how I manage, how I think, how I work is I'm I'm able to uh move the noise out of the situation so that I can really focus on what's important and what needs to be done.
00:04:50.639 -->
00:05:00.639And maybe another kind of way of explaining my career or how I think is I love the Wayne Gretzky quote that I want to be where the where the puck is going and not where it's been.
00:05:00.639 -->
00:05:04.079And since I was small, I really always have thought that way.
00:05:04.079 -->
00:05:11.600I can see the future, you know, see things that maybe things can be very intuitive to me that it takes other people a while to come to.
00:05:11.600 -->
00:05:17.439So I have a, you know, a very analytical brain and and think of things quickly, but I I'm always looking out.
00:05:17.439 -->
00:05:19.279I'm a risk taker.
00:05:19.279 -->
00:05:23.680My philosophy in life kind of is, you know, what's the worst that can happen?
00:05:23.680 -->
00:05:27.519If something doesn't go well, I can always go back to doing something else.
00:05:27.519 -->
00:05:29.120I live in an abundance world.
00:05:29.120 -->
00:05:36.959And I think it's a lot easier to be a risk taker when you live in an abundance world because you're not looking at, well, if this goes wrong, what's going to happen?
00:05:36.959 -->
00:05:40.959You're like, well, if this, if this doesn't work, there are other opportunities.
00:05:40.959 -->
00:05:44.959But the most important thing to look at is how cool will this be if this works.
00:05:44.959 -->
00:05:46.879So I'm an innovator.
00:05:46.879 -->
00:05:58.000Um, I'm really supportive of innovative products and how they get made, both the the production, manufacturing, operation, supply chain process, but also also the team process.
00:05:58.000 -->
00:05:59.439Lifelong learner.
00:05:59.439 -->
00:06:00.720I'm really excited.
00:06:00.720 -->
00:06:04.879I just joined uh a venture capital firm as an executive in residence.
00:06:04.879 -->
00:06:12.959And that's as much for me to be able to impart my experience to help others, but also just to keep keep me up to breasts.
00:06:12.959 -->
00:06:24.480Things are changing so fast and you know so quickly that I just loved to see what people are thinking about, what the next challenges are and and you know, the the things that people haven't even thought about today.
00:06:24.480 -->
00:06:26.000Where is the future going?
00:06:26.000 -->
00:06:31.120So I I would say in summary, I'm a builder, I'm a maker, I like to build teams.
00:06:31.120 -->
00:06:33.120I really like to build things.
00:06:33.120 -->
00:06:36.240I like to build things that you can be touched and felt.
00:06:36.240 -->
00:06:42.879Teams, a little bit different in that you you can't necessarily touch and feel the outcome of a team, but you can see it in the results.
00:06:42.879 -->
00:06:50.639But I I really do like to build, build things that uh make the world a better place and and that people can use to help their lives.
00:06:51.040 -->
00:06:52.160Thank you for that intro.
00:06:52.160 -->
00:06:55.680And I typically like to start even at the beginning.
00:06:55.680 -->
00:07:01.040Granite City, looking back, what did little Susan want to be when you look back?
00:07:01.040 -->
00:07:03.360What was the dream you had to become?
00:07:03.680 -->
00:07:08.800I really had kind of a a bifurcated dream, but both were rooted strongly in science.
00:07:08.800 -->
00:07:12.079So my dad died when I was five, which is very significant.
00:07:12.079 -->
00:07:13.279He was 29.
00:07:13.279 -->
00:07:21.040Died of a congenital condition that also killed my grandfather, and who knows, you know, what had happened, happened before then.
00:07:21.040 -->
00:07:35.600And I did not want other, you know, little girls, little boys to go through the the chaos and families to be impacted like like mine was by an untimely death that, you know, today is preventable.
00:07:35.600 -->
00:07:41.600And so, like I said, that science I wanted to be at the time it was, you know, genetic engineer.
00:07:41.600 -->
00:07:54.959Today'd be biotech engineer, but I I wanted to go into science and research and and help solve some, you know, really hard health problems so that other people weren't impacted like I was.
00:07:54.959 -->
00:07:58.800Simultaneously, when I was in second grade, I met Marlon Perkins.
00:07:58.800 -->
00:08:07.519There was a TV show called Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom, which, you know, back then there were three TV channels and it was on Sunday night, and I watched it religiously.
00:08:07.519 -->
00:08:16.480And he would go to Africa and he studied animals, and he was a uh, you know, a wildlife biologist, but a wildlife biologist in in Africa.
00:08:16.480 -->
00:08:17.279And the St.
00:08:17.279 -->
00:08:20.639Louis Zoo was a really important part of my upbringing.
00:08:20.639 -->
00:08:24.160It was across the river, it was free, anybody could uh attend.
00:08:24.160 -->
00:08:28.720I also wanted to go to Africa and save and study animals.
00:08:28.720 -->
00:08:35.200So both were very different, but both kind of rooted in science and thinking and problem solving.
00:08:35.200 -->
00:08:40.559The school that I went to, because it was an industrial town, excellent school system, excellent teachers.
00:08:40.559 -->
00:08:44.080So I took ecology in fourth grade, so in summer school.
00:08:44.080 -->
00:08:54.639So I was able to take science and math classes and really hone that curiosity and turn that into something that could then be a foundation of my career.
00:08:54.960 -->
00:09:16.320And you actually seem like you started your first role early on in cancer and epidemiology research, and then transitioned to chemical coding and some of the deeper environmental work, and then actually landed in an industry that doesn't seem to be that related when you think of automotive manufacturing.
00:09:16.320 -->
00:09:21.919Help me describe that bridge and how you go from that towards automotive manufacturing.
00:09:22.240 -->
00:09:25.200As I talked about early on, I'm a risk taker.
00:09:25.200 -->
00:09:27.039I'm curious.
00:09:27.039 -->
00:09:38.399And I think because of my dad dying so young that in my mind, my thought was, you know, you don't know how long you're going to be on this earth.
00:09:38.399 -->
00:09:42.720So if an opportunity presents itself, think about it and move forward.
00:09:42.720 -->
00:09:45.519So I followed the path that I had planned on.
00:09:45.519 -->
00:09:54.480So graduated from the University of Illinois with a degree in microbiology and took molecular and cellular biology courses as part of that.
00:09:54.480 -->
00:10:01.440And that really foundationally set me in a place where then when I graduated, um, I wanted to get a PhD.
00:10:01.440 -->
00:10:07.279And I went to MD Anderson Hospital in Houston and worked on an epidemiological study on breast cancer.
00:10:07.279 -->
00:10:10.000Now we're talking about back in 19, you know, in the mid-80s.
00:10:10.000 -->
00:10:11.360Very exciting time.
00:10:11.360 -->
00:10:15.759A lot of interesting things were happening, especially at a hospital like that and in Houston.
00:10:15.759 -->
00:10:26.399And then went to Herc Celenys, did research there for a chemical company, and then ended up in manufacturing, I'll call it accidentally.
00:10:26.399 -->
00:10:31.440So at the time, moved from South Texas to Southwest Iowa.
00:10:31.440 -->
00:10:38.960And Southwest Iowa's small population, not a lot of opportunities, but very fortunately close to Omaha.
00:10:38.960 -->
00:10:42.240So at the time, U.S.
00:10:42.240 -->
00:10:50.960auto industry in particular was diversifying the supply base and moving suppliers from kind of the epicenter of Michigan and Ohio.
00:10:50.960 -->
00:10:54.000You know, we could talk about globalization for hours and hours.
00:10:54.000 -->
00:10:55.840So this was like the first step in that.
00:10:55.840 -->
00:11:11.919So things moved from the very dense population areas of Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, and started moving down to more of the rural Midwest, then to Mexico, you know, to Asia, the, you know, the whole story.
00:11:11.919 -->
00:11:14.559So I was in that first wave of movement.
00:11:14.559 -->
00:11:21.120And it was just being at the right place at the right time, with the right mindset, with curiosity, with risk taking.
00:11:21.120 -->
00:11:31.279And I had the opportunity to go into manufacturing, which after growing up in a steel town, again, grateful for the education, grateful for the work ethic and the and the people that influence me there.
00:11:31.279 -->
00:11:34.240But I never wanted to work in a factory, had no interest.
00:11:34.240 -->
00:11:35.120I had no interest.
00:11:35.120 -->
00:11:37.039I can't even describe how I had no interest.
00:11:37.039 -->
00:11:45.360And then I find myself in a situation where this really interesting job comes up where there's a stamping plant.
00:11:45.360 -->
00:11:46.639It's in Southwest Iowa.
00:11:46.639 -->
00:11:50.320It's the largest employer in a very large area.
00:11:50.320 -->
00:11:55.679And it has some real issues where, you know, the future of the factory was at stake.
00:11:55.679 -->
00:11:57.840And they needed someone with my background.
00:11:57.840 -->
00:12:00.320And it's it was hard to find someone with my background.
00:12:00.320 -->
00:12:02.320It wasn't a large population to pull from.
00:12:02.320 -->
00:12:09.840So I, you know, took a risk again thinking University of Nebraska was an hour away, and their medical center is in Omaha.
00:12:09.840 -->
00:12:16.480And I actually had four job offers from University of Nebraska doing similar work that I'd done at Hercks L and E's or at MD Anderson Hospital.
00:12:16.480 -->
00:12:18.080So I was like, okay, I'll try this.
00:12:18.080 -->
00:12:19.679And if it works, great.
00:12:19.679 -->
00:12:24.240And if not, I'll go do research at over at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
00:12:24.240 -->
00:12:30.159And I walked into the factory, and it just seemed like there was an energy and an excitement.
00:12:30.159 -->
00:12:33.519And this is when I talk about kind of being a builder and a maker.
00:12:33.519 -->
00:12:47.679You know, there are 200 presses in this pretty large kind of barn-like building and just constant noise and intercoms going off and forklifts and parts coming off every few seconds off of all these different presses.
00:12:47.679 -->
00:12:54.720And it's just that energy really is what kind of attracted me and why I said, you know, I'm I'm really going to try to make this work.
00:12:54.720 -->
00:12:59.759Because I think maybe I was being too harsh about not ever wanting to work in a in a factory.
00:12:59.759 -->
00:13:02.080Maybe this is where I was supposed to be.
00:13:02.080 -->
00:13:15.279And unlike research, where you can do an experiment for a year and not ever have success, you know, you know within a few seconds when you're in a manufacturing, particularly in an automotive manufacturing, within a second to a minute whether you've been successful or not.
00:13:15.279 -->
00:13:18.159So it's that that constant feedback and energy.
00:13:18.159 -->
00:13:22.000So that began the next phase of my career.
00:13:22.000 -->
00:13:23.679I did very well there.
00:13:23.679 -->
00:13:36.720And I think there is a bias that when you're in manufacturing, especially kind of the the heavier manufacturing, that there's no sustainability, there's no environmental impact and complete opposite.
00:13:36.720 -->
00:13:41.279And I'm hoping that, you know, maybe somebody will listen to this and and change their career.
00:13:41.279 -->
00:13:54.000I think one of the best ways to make an impact on the environment is to be at the beginning and man, you know, working on the processes, managing the processes and building things in a way that's environmentally sound.
00:13:54.000 -->
00:14:01.759So not only can you just, you know, build products that are clean tech products, but the how things get made.
00:14:01.759 -->
00:14:06.320I think there's a gap in how people think about the how things get made.
00:14:06.320 -->
00:14:15.679And it's the how things get made to me is an untapped part of the sustainability story and something that I've I've excelled at my entire career.
00:14:16.000 -->
00:14:16.559I love that.
00:14:16.559 -->
00:14:26.480So let's dive in because you had spent 13 years at Fort, impressive trajectory from a floor plan to global director of manufacturing.
00:14:26.480 -->
00:14:28.559So, what are some of the gaps?
00:14:28.559 -->
00:14:32.879What did that environment teach you about the sustainability?
00:14:32.879 -->
00:14:38.159But I'm also curious, perhaps leadership that you could not have learned through MBA.
00:14:38.480 -->
00:14:51.120So when I started, especially when I was in Iowa, and then I built a factory in Kansas City that supplied Ford, which was how then I ultimately was introduced to Ford.
00:14:51.120 -->
00:14:55.840You know, people talk about getting their Harvard MBA and in different experiences.
00:14:55.840 -->
00:15:09.120The fact that I started in a smaller manufacturing firm that was a supplier as opposed to, you know, one of the OEMs or the, you know, the nameplates that people recognize.
00:15:09.120 -->
00:15:11.519I had an excellent leader as a boss.
00:15:11.519 -->
00:15:17.600I think was important that there weren't a lot of resources.
00:15:17.600 -->
00:15:23.039And it's in those people, people that understand the automotive industry, it's an industry of very tight margins.
00:15:23.039 -->
00:15:28.720And the farther down you get into the, they're called tiers, tier one, tier two, two, three.
00:15:28.720 -->
00:15:36.000And the farther you get it down into the supply base, the tighter and and the and the harder it is to uh to make money.
00:15:36.000 -->
00:15:44.320The focus on productivity is so significant as the margins get tighter and tighter, the farther down kind of that tier model that you go down.
00:15:44.320 -->
00:15:55.759And so I think because I learned in a not at the top, but at the you know, the middle or or closer to the the bottom of that tiered process, I really learned a lot about manufacturing.
00:15:55.759 -->
00:15:57.440I learned a lot about people.
00:15:57.440 -->
00:16:06.159I was an outsider and I've, you know, I've spent most of my life being a being an outsider in many ways.
00:16:06.159 -->
00:16:09.759In this case, this was a very small farm community.
00:16:09.759 -->
00:16:11.360I grew up in a steel town.
00:16:11.360 -->
00:16:13.759I didn't know anything about moisture and corn.
00:16:13.759 -->
00:16:16.080I did when I left, I didn't know when I started.
00:16:16.080 -->
00:16:18.559So, you know, I had to really build a lot of credibility.
00:16:18.559 -->
00:16:22.080So as a leader, I really had to be very clear in my communications.
00:16:22.080 -->
00:16:28.080Before I started something or wanted to work on an improvement process, I really had to be thoughtful about it.
00:16:28.080 -->
00:16:37.360So I, you know, I wasn't from Iowa, I wasn't a farmer, I was young, and this is kind of the foundational piece that will follow through my story.
00:16:37.360 -->
00:16:39.200People have to trust you.
00:16:39.200 -->
00:16:45.200Something I learned, my grandmother would always say, you know, people can't take your integrity from you, you give it away.
00:16:45.200 -->
00:16:51.360You know, it's like you can lose your money, you can lose house, you can lose car, you can lose all kinds of things, but you give your integrity away.
00:16:51.360 -->
00:17:07.599And so it was really important to me, kind of that foundational pieces of growing up in a manufacturing community with strong values and coming into a new community where no one knew anything about me, and I was definitely an outsider to build that trust-based model for leadership.
00:17:07.599 -->
00:17:14.960And that's really where I started working with a coach and working with my teams and using the Lincioni model, the advantage.
00:17:14.960 -->
00:17:22.160Where I learned to really respect that and really understand the power of trust was really in that first factory that I went into.
00:17:22.160 -->
00:17:23.920And I had no manufacturing experience.
00:17:23.920 -->
00:17:30.480So, on top of all the other things that made me uh, you know, less than less than accepted, it's like, you know, who is this person coming in?
00:17:30.480 -->
00:17:32.079She's never made anything in her life.
00:17:32.079 -->
00:17:35.519I had a degree from University of Illinois, I had worked in labs.
00:17:35.519 -->
00:17:37.279I built a lot a lot of trust.
00:17:37.279 -->
00:17:40.480It was it was hard, but I'm grateful for that experience.
00:17:40.799 -->
00:17:45.359I know this uh Lencioni advantage you keep on building even later now.
00:17:45.359 -->
00:17:49.759Tell me a bit about it and uh what do you find is beneficial?
00:17:49.759 -->
00:17:52.480How has it helped you advance the trust?
00:17:52.880 -->
00:18:00.960So I what I really like about the Lincioni model is that it took kind of what I was doing and what I knew intellectually and you know codified it.
00:18:00.960 -->
00:18:09.839So you you build the processes, you sit down, you get together as a team, you speak your truth to each other, you you know, you learn about each other first.
00:18:09.839 -->
00:18:32.000And in that, what I find is in that kind of first, very uncomfortable session, no matter how many times I've done it, no matter how many different teams I've done it with, it's always uncomfortable to sit down, especially with people you work with, because these are your co-workers, you spend a lot of time with them, but being really vulnerable in that situation and the vulnerability-based trust, it's really hard.
00:18:32.000 -->
00:18:42.720And building that, you know, vulnerability-based trust, once you get through what I'll call what people's assumptions are about each other or people's perceptions are about each other, it doesn't always happen.
00:18:42.720 -->
00:18:52.559But if you can really, really break through that, then you can really build a cohesive unit that can then work together and you do the team effectiveness surveys.
00:18:52.559 -->
00:18:53.920Where do you think the team is effective?
00:18:53.920 -->
00:18:55.359Where do you think it's not effective?
00:18:55.359 -->
00:19:03.200Okay, so you know, if you take people who are very engineering focused, science focused, you know, data focused, they need data.
00:19:03.200 -->
00:19:11.680So you start with this, for lack of a better term, you know, touchy-feely kumbaya, which makes, especially my experience, people in engineering very uncomfortable.
00:19:11.680 -->
00:19:15.119You get through that, and then you can really focus on the data piece.
00:19:15.119 -->
00:19:18.000Okay, so well, this is where the team is effective, this is where it's not.
00:19:18.000 -->
00:19:21.039This is the playbook, this is the goal, this is where we need to go.
00:19:21.039 -->
00:19:25.599Then you start to build the hows, and then you build, you know, the rallying cry.
00:19:25.599 -->
00:19:42.000So I the way I see it, and I don't know if Patrick Lincioni would agree or not, is it's really building that vulnerability first and breaking through people's assumptions about each other, to then putting data and process in front of people to meet the intention.
00:19:42.000 -->
00:19:43.519And these are really hard goals.
00:19:43.519 -->
00:19:45.359They're never easy goals.
00:19:45.359 -->
00:19:48.720And if if people had the answer, you know, they wouldn't need people like me.
00:19:48.720 -->
00:19:55.119I find that to be the foundational piece of then the business and process structure.
00:19:55.119 -->
00:20:07.039Once you get that foundation of trust, you know, at least my experience has been that teams that have that kind of vulnerability-based trust coupled with the process are unstoppable.
00:20:07.359 -->
00:20:15.839I love that it's actually interesting to me that this has been used in manufacturing, maybe to your earlier point, no surprise, because the margins are so thin.
00:20:15.839 -->
00:20:18.079So you have to operate under such a pressure.
00:20:18.079 -->
00:20:20.079I've actually personally never experienced this.
00:20:20.079 -->
00:20:23.920So I've been diving into this based on your resume and what you had shared.
00:20:23.920 -->
00:20:26.160And feel free to elaborate on what I found out.
00:20:26.160 -->
00:20:37.680Patrick Lancioni argued that uh organizational health and having a cohesive political, free and aligned company culture is the ultimate and the most sustainable competitive advantage.
00:20:37.680 -->
00:20:41.119Which sounds totally on point, totally agree.
00:20:41.119 -->
00:20:44.079And yet, how difficult must it be to achieve?
00:20:44.079 -->
00:20:58.400So it's really interesting that you've actually embraced this and worked on it early on and makes me think about even AI and the technology advancements now and taking some of the big risks that are ahead of us, even with sustainability.
00:20:58.400 -->
00:21:07.759This is probably one of the most foundational things that we must establish in order to take the audacious leaps and achieve big goals.
00:21:08.160 -->
00:21:19.680The part that is not intuitive is there is always an example of a company with a culture that isn't great that makes a lot of money.
00:21:19.680 -->
00:21:25.839And again, to me, it's a perspective of I'm a statistician also, maybe not by degree.
00:21:25.839 -->
00:21:33.680You know, I just took statistics classes, but I basically my entire career have had to do statistics, especially for the volumes of products that I've built.
00:21:33.680 -->
00:21:35.119So take out the outliers.
00:21:35.119 -->
00:21:41.920There's always going to be five or ten really big companies without great cultures that do well.
00:21:41.920 -->
00:21:43.119And try to look at that.
00:21:43.119 -->
00:21:45.599The rest, you know, the other 98%.
00:21:45.599 -->
00:21:58.640It's so important to kind of break that mindset that culture is expensive, culture is secondary, culture is something that's really not that important.
00:21:58.640 -->
00:22:04.799But I've seen in my own Lived experiences that there's a lot of misconceptions about what is culture.
00:22:04.799 -->
00:22:09.599And to me, it's the difference between the Jim Collins, you know, good to great.
00:22:09.599 -->
00:22:11.920You can still be good, you can still be successful.
00:22:11.920 -->
00:22:16.480And some companies that, you know, like I said, that don't have great cultures are wildly successful.
00:22:16.480 -->
00:22:21.279But for the long haul, when you're in a public company, it's quarter by quarter.
00:22:21.279 -->
00:22:23.359And when you're in the auto industry, it's month over month.
00:22:23.359 -->
00:22:24.880You know, how many did you sell last month?
00:22:24.880 -->
00:22:26.559How many do you plan on selling next month?
00:22:26.559 -->
00:22:32.000And that kind of pressure cooker, taking a long haul look, I think is harder.
00:22:32.000 -->
00:22:38.720And I think there's a misunderstanding, or maybe not really people thinking about that this is not something for today.
00:22:38.720 -->
00:22:40.400This isn't something for next quarter.
00:22:40.400 -->
00:22:51.599This is something for a company day over day, month over month, year over year, to build that healthy organization and the teams that do it and do it well and maintain it.
00:22:51.599 -->
00:22:54.880You have to maintain it, are unstoppable, in my experience.
00:22:55.119 -->
00:22:59.680So it seems like you figured out how to harness the power of trust and team.
00:22:59.680 -->
00:23:08.079You were promoted to be one of the top 300 executives at Ford when you were 35, so one of the youngest in the company history.
00:23:08.079 -->
00:23:17.440You've described some of the key things, obviously, trust, collaboration, and it seems like working really hard to prove yourself early on.
00:23:17.440 -->
00:23:26.480Anything else as you reflect back, what would you tell the younger version of yourself or what made you really that successful at that young age?
00:23:26.799 -->
00:23:34.960The risk taking, the curiosity, the scientific method, how I think, how I solve problems, how I built teams was really how I got there.
00:23:34.960 -->
00:23:36.640I moved very fast.
00:23:36.640 -->
00:23:46.640And one of the challenges that I, when I look back on it now, of course, you know, hindsight is 2020, is I didn't come from a background of leadership.
00:23:46.640 -->
00:23:49.039I come from pretty humble people.
00:23:49.039 -->
00:23:51.200My dad, who passed, was a teacher.
00:23:51.200 -->
00:23:53.359My mom, you know, retired as a teacher.
00:23:53.359 -->
00:23:57.759My uncle was a government worker, my aunt was a church secretary, my grandmother was a homemaker.
00:23:57.759 -->
00:24:00.480I didn't grow up kind of in that corporate culture.
00:24:00.480 -->
00:24:05.599I didn't grow up going to country clubs, you know, being around people who did that for a living.
00:24:05.599 -->
00:24:16.640Most of most of my friends' parents were blue-collar workers, and I learned a lot about hard work and and a work ethic, but I I didn't really understand kind of the the corporate culture.
00:24:16.640 -->
00:24:20.079And, you know, I think in hindsight, I did get my MBA.
00:24:20.079 -->
00:24:21.200That was very helpful.
00:24:21.200 -->
00:24:23.440But I'm a pretty good networker today.
00:24:23.440 -->
00:24:25.359I have a pretty, pretty strong network.
00:24:25.359 -->
00:24:29.839I have a lot of friends today that I can call and pick up the phone and ask questions.
00:24:29.839 -->
00:24:35.359And I I think early in my career, I had my head down and I was working so hard.
00:24:35.359 -->
00:24:40.960I didn't really understand the power of networking at that time.
00:24:40.960 -->
00:24:45.119I don't think I would have been capable of doing it successfully.
00:24:45.119 -->
00:25:03.279And I really wish, you know, that I could tell my kind of 38, 40-year-old self, like, spend as much time talking to people, learning, understanding the corporate structure and the systems that you're in and the difference as you are with your head down trying to meet objectives.
00:25:03.279 -->
00:25:05.200So it's kind of that crossover.
00:25:05.200 -->
00:25:20.400I think every business it doesn't matter where you where you study in MBA, you know, when they they talk about the from being more at the larger part of the organization, and and as you get up to the to the top of an organization, your rule changes really significantly.
00:25:20.400 -->
00:25:28.400I could have done a better job really understanding how my role was going to change, or how my role did change, and and and how I could have been successful.
00:25:28.400 -->
00:25:43.759I had to learn a lot of things the hard way that if I had really spent more time with people, with my peers and and with my superiors, kind of learning that that world that I was in, I wouldn't have had to learn so many things the hard way.
00:25:44.000 -->
00:25:58.480I love that you're sharing it because that's also my um observation if I would tell something to my younger self and still to me like practicing it nowadays, and many of even the super high achieving women I've had had the privilege to have on this podcast share the same thing.
00:25:58.480 -->
00:26:08.880Like there's something about the muscle of networking that us women need to practice it and put it into motion perhaps more.
00:26:08.880 -->
00:26:24.799We're so focused on just hitting the goals and achieving and working hard, which comes to us naturally, but then learning how to communicate those wins and create the strategic network is something that seems like we need to continue to hone and practice more.
00:26:24.799 -->
00:26:39.839So after 13 years at Ford, obviously being one of the top executives, you've actually made a somewhat surprised move to become uh VP of Manufacturing at Nissan, which has been the world's largest automotive plant by volume.
00:26:39.839 -->
00:26:41.920What was that decision like?
00:26:41.920 -->
00:26:49.039And what drove you to Nissan where you actually helped drive the leaf off of the manufacturing floor?
00:26:49.039 -->
00:26:59.119What did that moment feel like when you were consciously switching from quite established career and network to a brand new company and team?
00:26:59.359 -->
00:27:00.480That's a great question.
00:27:00.480 -->
00:27:02.240And people ask me that all the time.
00:27:02.240 -->
00:27:05.279And when I when I went from Ford to Nissan, people were like, what are you doing?
00:27:05.279 -->
00:27:06.160You have a Ford pension.
00:27:06.160 -->
00:27:08.720Not only have a Ford pension, I had a Ford executive pension.
00:27:08.720 -->
00:27:21.200It gets back to kind of the, you know, who am I as a as a person, you know, when I wake up in the morning and I look myself in the mirror, I like to learn, I like to grow, I like to challenge, I like to innovate.
00:27:21.200 -->
00:27:26.640And I didn't feel like I had the opportunity to do that at Ford.
00:27:26.640 -->
00:27:35.599I had an excellent career, great connections, great job, offices around the world as part of the global manufacturing office.
00:27:35.599 -->
00:27:40.240I worked for a guy, John Fleming, at my last role there, you know, I really respected.
00:27:40.240 -->
00:27:45.039And then from a product standpoint, so Ford has amazing products.
00:27:45.039 -->
00:27:50.640And at the time, you have to remember again, now we're talking about back, this is 2006, 2007, 2008.
00:27:50.640 -->
00:27:52.720All this is is public knowledge.
00:27:52.720 -->
00:27:57.680There were a lot of decisions that needed to be made about, you know, again, where was the puck going?
00:27:57.680 -->
00:28:01.839Ford had come out with the hybrid escape in 2002.
00:28:01.839 -->
00:28:12.480And I was, you know, really, really proud of Ford for being early, and General Motors had, you know, had had done an electric car in the in the 90s.
00:28:12.480 -->
00:28:21.119But I, you know, I felt like Ford had done something really interesting because they'd taken a traditional vehicle and turned it into a different powertrain.
00:28:21.119 -->
00:28:23.119So it was something people recognized.
00:28:23.119 -->
00:28:29.839It wasn't something that was back in the day, as as they say, didn't look like a traditional vehicle on the roads.
00:28:29.839 -->
00:28:38.640A lot of the the cars out there with different powertrains or different kinds of conveyances looked more like, you know, spaceship-y or you know, more UFO-ish.
00:28:38.640 -->
00:28:47.279But this this was a you know, SUV, four doors looked like a normal vehicle because it was based on a traditional, traditional vehicle.
00:28:47.279 -->
00:28:49.599And I was really excited about that.
00:28:49.599 -->
00:28:56.160And I really saw, you know, Ford out there as a company that was doing things that were different.
00:28:56.160 -->
00:29:40.960I was leading the Rouge projects of the conversion from, you know, Henry Ford's original assembly line, the integrated factory with the steel plant and the glass plant, and and the at the time the the Mustang was being built at Dearborn Assembly, and the company had done what they called it the Heritage Project, you know, taking what was this iconic Rouge facility and turning it into a sustainable facility and new production processes and, you know, a green roof and and and all kinds of things that were really, really, you know, today it may not seem that groundbreaking, but back in the early 2000s, doing anything outside of the norm, particularly in the automotive industry, was just viewed as a little bit out there.
00:29:40.960 -->
00:29:44.319So I was really immersed in Ford.
00:29:44.319 -->
00:29:48.880I I felt really was where the puck was going, looking at everything differently.
00:29:48.880 -->
00:29:50.960And I got to spend time with Peter Senge.
00:29:50.960 -->
00:29:55.599And, you know, I'm really grateful to a lot of the experiences I had at Ford.
00:29:55.599 -->
00:29:56.960But change is hard.
00:29:56.960 -->
00:30:02.720Change in a very large company, change in a 100-year-old company, these things are, these things are challenging.
00:30:02.720 -->
00:30:11.279And in the end, I felt like the forces pushing against change were stronger than the forces pushing for change.
00:30:11.279 -->
00:30:22.799And I had the opportunity to go to Nissan, and you know, at the time, because of the job that I had as part of the global manufacturing business office, is, you know, it was really a strategy role.
00:30:22.799 -->
00:30:30.480And we ruthlessly studied all the other vehicles, and we also studied the management structure.
00:30:30.480 -->
00:30:37.599So we didn't just take the cars and tear them down and figure out, you know, what screws they're using and what their hood inners look like and door panels look like.
00:30:37.599 -->
00:30:40.319We looked at, you know, what are the structures other companies have?
00:30:40.319 -->
00:30:44.880And so I had studied Nissan as, you know, as an outsider looking in.
00:30:44.880 -->
00:30:52.720Um so when the opportunity came to go to Nissan, one of the things that I had learned while studying is that is they really were focused on innovation.
00:30:52.720 -->
00:30:57.680And there was, you know, pretty strong bet that they were going to do an electric vehicle.
00:30:57.680 -->
00:31:09.119I'm not sure to pick winners or losers, but again, back in 2005, 6, 7, the internal combustion engine, you know, not that I think it's not important, you know, I think it's going to be important.
00:31:09.119 -->
00:31:13.039I think it'll be important 100 years from now, but it's not the only solution.
00:31:13.039 -->
00:31:19.759And this kind of multi-solution powertrain was really being debated, you know, then.
00:31:19.759 -->
00:31:24.319And I I was very confident that Nissan would be on the cutting edge of that.
00:31:24.319 -->
00:31:36.000And then I ended up going to the Smyrna plant, was allocated the Nissan Leaf, was able to bring the Nissan Leaf to market, drove, you know, drove the first one production unit off the production line, being part of that change.
00:31:36.000 -->
00:31:37.200It was really exciting.
00:31:37.200 -->
00:31:42.160So, you know, again, you have to make a bet when you're when you're looking at something like that.
00:31:42.160 -->
00:31:44.079Is this gonna happen?
00:31:44.079 -->
00:31:46.079And will I be a part of it?
00:31:46.079 -->
00:31:50.559And I, you know, I took the bet that I could I could stay at Ford at a very comfortable job.
00:31:50.559 -->
00:31:56.880Not that there's no comfortable jobs, I should say, in the in the auto industry, but I I had a great job, is probably a better way to say it.
00:31:56.880 -->
00:32:05.359And I was gonna go into the complete unknown, but I felt like the unknown was much more focused on the future than where I was, and that's why I made that transition.
00:32:05.359 -->
00:32:08.720And again, if it didn't work out, I figured I could have, you know, go back.
00:32:08.720 -->
00:32:13.839Maybe Ford would take me back, maybe not, you know, go back to the supply supply base if it didn't work out.
00:32:13.839 -->
00:32:16.319But I was fortunate that the Nissan role worked out.
00:32:16.640 -->
00:32:23.599It seems like there was one bet you made, and then afterwards you perhaps made even more courageous bet.
00:32:23.599 -->
00:32:28.960You moved over to Bloom Energy and you were the COO for nearly eight years.
00:32:28.960 -->
00:32:43.119Tripling headcount, cutting unit cost by 70%, and taking the company public, but it also required something like relocation from East Coast to West Coast with your whole family.
00:32:43.119 -->
00:32:48.799COVID later on happened, so you're supporting some of the hospitals and critical infrastructure.
00:32:48.799 -->
00:32:54.160So I can only imagine the chaos of the job and even the courage of the jump.
00:32:54.160 -->
00:33:01.119So, how do you bring some of the operational discipline and engineering-driven culture without killing the innovation?
00:33:01.119 -->
00:33:02.640How do you stay relevant?
00:33:02.880 -->
00:33:07.200When I was with Nissan in Nashville, Nashville is a very comfortable place to live.
00:33:07.200 -->
00:33:10.000We had a very large house, big piece of land.
00:33:10.000 -->
00:33:13.680My kids were in private college prep schools.
00:33:13.680 -->
00:33:16.960I was a big fish in a little pond.
00:33:16.960 -->
00:33:20.559It was not just a great job, great people, great lifestyle.
00:33:20.559 -->
00:33:24.960And then coming to Silicon Valley, I moved to seventh grader and a tenth grader.
00:33:24.960 -->
00:33:32.319And then I will, if there's moms watching this, we're dads, you know, in hindsight, probably not the best ages to move people, but I did.
00:33:32.319 -->
00:33:43.759I moved my kids in the middle of middle school and uh high school, moved to a very small house and it took a lot of risk, impacted our lifestyle pretty significantly.
00:33:43.759 -->
00:34:00.079So, you know, downsized houses, downsized lifestyle, and I became like a minnow in a big pond, you know, where I would be in the paper, and I was very well known to, you know, being such a small piece of of Silicon Valley.
00:34:00.079 -->
00:34:02.960But I felt like the mission was the big piece.
00:34:02.960 -->
00:34:09.119And of course, my kids, I think, um, if they could change anything about me, you know, I'm always like, oh, you know, this will be great.
00:34:09.119 -->
00:34:10.639You know, how much fun is this going to be?
00:34:10.639 -->
00:34:11.760We're moving to California.
00:34:11.760 -->
00:34:18.800And, you know, my enthusiasm, my energy does not always translate to, you know, the the people whose lives are impacting.
00:34:18.800 -->
00:34:23.440But it really was a huge opportunity to do something completely different.
00:34:23.440 -->
00:34:28.239I was really at the end of my automotive career.
00:34:28.239 -->
00:34:34.000Effectively, when you get to your mid-50s and in the automotive industry, most people retire.
00:34:34.000 -->
00:34:36.559They may go on and do something else, they they may not.
00:34:36.559 -->
00:34:43.519But I was, you know, really close to that kind of place where I could have stayed and within a few years retired in Nashville.
00:34:43.519 -->
00:34:50.000But when this opportunity came up, um, opportunities like this, they're kind of once-in-a-lifetime opportunities.
00:34:50.000 -->
00:34:52.320And, you know, I was 51 at the time.
00:34:52.320 -->
00:35:01.440And Silicon Valley is not known for people in their 50s, especially, you know, back in 2013 when I when I took the job.
00:35:01.440 -->
00:35:04.320And I was like, if I don't take this, I may regret it.
00:35:04.320 -->
00:35:07.039I'm probably never going to have a chance like this again.
00:35:07.039 -->
00:35:11.440I took the role and it was absolutely fascinating.
00:35:11.440 -->
00:35:21.360And if you kind of go back to like the maker side of me, it was really important because the product had or has no knocks, no socks, no particulates.
00:35:21.360 -->
00:35:25.280I grew up in a city where most people talk about CO2.
00:35:25.280 -->
00:35:26.559People don't talk about particulates.
00:35:26.559 -->
00:35:27.679Particulates are terrible.
00:35:27.679 -->
00:35:36.480Anybody that lives next to any kind of factory or place where there's particulates in the air, there's significant health impacts.
00:35:36.480 -->
00:35:45.039And to me, that was really important because I've always believed that industry and people and communities can coexist, but you know, you have to work together.
00:35:45.039 -->
00:35:48.880And there has to be better solutions than there might have been a hundred years ago.
00:35:48.880 -->
00:35:52.000It was really exciting for all kinds of reasons.
00:35:52.000 -->
00:35:59.119The product, you know, the location, Silicon Valley, you know, the risk-reward ratio.
00:35:59.119 -->
00:36:03.760The last question you asked was, how do you stay innovative?
00:36:03.760 -->
00:36:16.880I think in a perfect world, and this kind of goes back to my first job in manufacturing, maybe I would never have ended up in manufacturing if I hadn't ended up in Southwest Iowa when I did.
00:36:16.880 -->
00:36:30.719The process discipline and the, you know, the focus is something that I do well, but it isn't something that I um, you know, some people get up and they're really excited about, well, I'm gonna make this process better today and I'm gonna work on this.
00:36:30.719 -->
00:36:36.159You know, I kind of that Toyota mindset, you know, that they live and breathe the Toyota mindset.
00:36:36.159 -->
00:36:37.360I'm an and person.
00:36:37.360 -->
00:36:46.320My brain thinks like the, you know, the production systems and the lean production systems, but I really like to do things that are interesting and different.
00:36:46.320 -->
00:36:48.800And I don't enjoy killing innovation.
00:36:48.800 -->
00:36:54.159You know, I don't want to be so process focused that, you know, innovation dies when I'm a leader.
00:36:54.159 -->
00:37:03.599I I really want to be use that process focus to make sure that innovation succeeds and thrives and moves forward.
00:37:03.599 -->
00:37:09.280And if really great ideas don't end up on the table, don't end up in the marketplace.
00:37:09.280 -->
00:37:24.320I'm sure there's hundreds of thousands of ideas, really good ideas, that have never been commercialized because the idea might have been great, but there wasn't that kind of teeming of the great idea with process discipline.
00:37:24.320 -->
00:37:45.440So, you know, I I think that those of us that do have really strong process discipline, it's really almost our responsibility to make sure that we apply the processes and the commercialization and the scale to really amazing technologies so that it's an and discussion and it's an abundance discussion and both things happen.
00:37:45.840 -->
00:37:47.199Can you elaborate on this more?
00:37:47.199 -->
00:38:03.519I'm really curious because quite a few roles and industries and some of the corporate role that I've been part of, there's quite extreme process in how do you help the idea thrive outside or within that process?
00:38:03.519 -->
00:38:06.000I think that's actually often an art.
00:38:06.000 -->
00:38:10.239Do you have a way to navigate it or what has worked best for you in the past?
00:38:10.639 -->
00:38:13.599That's such a great point and such a great conundrum.
00:38:13.599 -->
00:38:15.840I guess I'll pat myself on the back.
00:38:15.840 -->
00:38:19.280I have a very unique ability to do both.
00:38:19.280 -->
00:38:22.079So I think it's really finding the right person.
00:38:22.079 -->
00:38:29.920And as you're building a team that you build a team of people who think that way.
00:38:29.920 -->
00:38:33.519Not everybody has to be kind of in that and place.
00:38:33.519 -->
00:38:42.719And you can have really strong process people and really strong innovative people, but you need to put over that structure people who can do both.
00:38:42.719 -->
00:38:47.280And people who can push back on the system.
00:38:47.280 -->
00:38:49.519I mean, there's some systems you can't push back on.
00:38:49.519 -->
00:38:55.199There are financial systems and things that have to be done in in public companies and even in private companies.
00:38:55.199 -->
00:39:10.000But where the places where you have the latitude to think differently, lead differently, uh work differently, I would say it's the brave thing to do, the courageous thing to do, it shouldn't be.
00:39:10.000 -->
00:39:11.840It should be more intuitive.
00:39:11.840 -->
00:39:18.800But I think that people are so focused on their metrics, success, financial success.
00:39:18.800 -->
00:39:21.199Again, all those things are very, very important.
00:39:21.199 -->
00:39:30.000Um, but when you pull out those individual threads and you don't really put together that system, and I think that's kind of what I do that's differently.
00:39:30.000 -->
00:39:38.880I think it's serendipitous, and not only do I have a scientific background, but I have a biological background because you can have the strongest body in the world, but if your heart is weak, you know, you're you're gonna die.
00:39:38.880 -->
00:39:40.079And that's the example of my dad.
00:39:40.079 -->
00:39:47.679My dad was a, you know, externally very strong, healthy person with a weak heart, and the body didn't survive.
00:39:47.679 -->
00:39:50.880And so I think it's really important that people think in systems.
00:39:50.880 -->
00:40:01.519And I was very fortunate when I I brought up Peter Peter Senge's name, people may or may not know who he is, but he wrote a book, Systems Thinking, and we've studied systems thinking at Ford when, you know, during my time at Ford.
00:40:01.519 -->
00:40:13.119And I think that finding people who think systemically, and when I think, you know, when I say systemically, think about the whole organization, not just their part and their success in their part.
00:40:13.119 -->
00:40:14.800And so there's different ways you can do it.
00:40:14.800 -->
00:40:22.159You can have really strong foundational pieces and then people that come in and pull those foundational pieces together.
00:40:22.159 -->
00:40:27.440When I went to Nissan, you know, you have a body shop and a paint shop and a, you know, final assembly.
00:40:27.440 -->
00:40:41.119And then my job was each where those people were very strong, they needed to be strong, but where there needed to be trade-offs, that was my role to optimize the system because people weren't more motivated to optimize their individual piece.
00:40:41.119 -->
00:40:46.960The other, the other piece is, you know, how people are compensated and compensation systems and compensation structures.
00:40:46.960 -->
00:40:52.159You know, so you have people who already are proud and want to do a good job in their role.
00:40:52.159 -->
00:41:04.000And then if you really double down on that kind of compensation structure that compensates the individual outcome versus the collective outcome, my experience, you you don't get that higher system.
00:41:04.000 -->
00:41:08.800You know, that makes innovation, again, my experience harder to be successful.
00:41:08.800 -->
00:41:17.920It doesn't mean it won't be successful, but it can take longer, it can be more expensive in the in the long run for the for the innovative processes to uh to take hold.
00:41:17.920 -->
00:41:20.800But I think that you know there are different ways of doing it.
00:41:20.800 -->
00:41:29.840But I find the power of thinking as a system and and people who think in systems, you know, you have to have process.
00:41:29.840 -->
00:41:31.199Process is is a given.
00:41:31.199 -->
00:41:33.199Without process, you do have chaos.
00:41:33.199 -->
00:41:41.280Um, but again, you overlay that system piece and it can be an extremely powerful and rewarding outcome.
00:41:41.679 -->
00:41:49.840I always find there's a certain amount of chaos and order that needs to come together to find innovation.
00:41:49.840 -->
00:41:51.920And I'm pondering what that balance is.
00:41:51.920 -->
00:41:55.679I'm still learning about it myself as I go through different companies.
00:41:55.679 -->
00:42:05.280After Bloom Energy, you joined Romeo Power, but after that you were part of a 5D Advanced Materials, and you joined a company that was dormant for two years.
00:42:05.280 -->
00:42:09.280And you hit new regulatory milestones in nine months.
00:42:09.280 -->
00:42:16.719So you talk about this innovative mindset, but you also mentioned introducing quotient X metrics.
00:42:16.719 -->
00:42:25.599So if you can maybe explain a little bit to somebody first time here about it, I actually had to do my own research, what that means, and how you put it into practice.
00:42:25.599 -->
00:42:34.960I'm curious if that helps align that organization towards the right mix of aspiration goals, process, but innovative mindset.
00:42:35.199 -->
00:42:37.039I'll challenge you a little bit on the word dormant.
00:42:37.039 -->
00:42:47.360It wasn't that it was dormant, that there was a lot of activity happening, but it wasn't necessarily driving the goals that needed to happen.
00:42:47.360 -->
00:42:57.119So there were some constraints that were in place over that two-year period that kept things from moving where they needed to go.
00:42:57.119 -->
00:43:06.719And one of the early books you get in the world that I come from, it, I mean, everybody has the goal and you know, the gold wrap book and theory of constraints.
00:43:06.719 -->
00:43:18.000And so again, both by training and by kind of how I think is looking at like, hey, there's a lot of activity happening, but is that activity moving the ball forward?
00:43:18.000 -->
00:43:19.679Do you, you know, to use a U.S.
00:43:19.679 -->
00:43:20.639football analogy?
00:43:20.639 -->
00:43:24.960Are you are you moving down the field in a way that you're going to make a touchdown?
00:43:24.960 -->
00:43:30.800Are you going to keep coming back and, you know, keep turning over the ball and costing time and points?
00:43:30.800 -->
00:43:38.800And in this case, it was the need to be focused on a few things.
00:43:38.800 -->
00:43:47.679And, you know, I have a really strong network, so I was able to pull people in from my from my network and be focused on a few things that then broke those constraints.
00:43:47.679 -->
00:43:53.039And again, once those constraints were broke, were lifted, it's almost like a dam, right?
00:43:53.039 -->
00:43:59.519So people are working and working and working, but the water isn't isn't coming over the dam because it's stuck.
00:43:59.519 -->
00:44:02.159Stuck behind the the the the blockage.
00:44:02.159 -->
00:44:05.519And once you break that blockage, then the floodgates open.
00:44:05.519 -->
00:44:25.280And that's something that I I've done really well in my career is that finding those key constraints that doesn't mean people aren't working hard and doesn't mean a lot of activity isn't happening, but the activity may not be turning into productive action.
00:44:25.280 -->
00:44:31.760And so finding those places, breaking those constraints, and then creating productive action.
00:44:31.760 -->
00:44:40.719And again, it goes back to starting with the advantage and bringing the team together and getting people to know each other as people.
00:44:40.719 -->
00:44:44.960What goal are we trying to solve and team effectiveness survey?
00:44:44.960 -->
00:44:46.400And this is the playbook.
00:44:46.400 -->
00:44:59.199And then as part of the playbook model, as I took it from Lincioni, it's kind of the how and how I partnered that with my experience, especially coming from Nissan.
00:44:59.199 -->
00:45:13.199The Nissan production system, they call it the Nissan production way, is a very, very, very disciplined process with charts and graphs and goals and objectives and accountability and follow-up.
00:45:13.199 -->
00:45:18.960And so the Hotian matrix or the X matrix is just a it's a tool.
00:45:18.960 -->
00:45:27.199But when you're running manufacturing facilities or running companies, you have many tools and you have all kinds of people who want to advise you.
00:45:27.199 -->
00:45:57.599And I found that the X matrix is a way of taking this concept from Japanese Toyota production system, Nissan Production Way, this concept of the Hoshan, which is just business plan, and turning it into an actionable tactical way that brings the individual inputs that are required by every member of the team into the greater collective, into a way that people can visualize it, understand it, and most importantly, see their peace.
00:45:57.599 -->
00:46:04.079You hear about people like working for companies for years and years and years, and they don't even know how their work impacts the business.
00:46:04.079 -->
00:46:15.840When you use the HOSHAN, the X-Matrix model, what I've found my experience is it really personalize people's work so that they understand each individual thing that they're doing.
00:46:15.840 -->
00:46:20.480How does it then add up to the greater collective of the bigger goals?
00:46:20.480 -->
00:46:26.800When I was at Nissan, that was something that I really took away all leadership management courses.
00:46:26.800 -->
00:46:28.320You know, things happen in threes.
00:46:28.320 -->
00:46:30.719People can only manage three things at a time.
00:46:30.719 -->
00:46:32.320You have to do things in threes.
00:46:32.320 -->
00:46:35.360And then as you roll, as you roll those three big goals down.
00:46:35.360 -->
00:46:44.559So say in an auto company, it's a sales goal, it's a revenue percentage goal, it's a team goal, you know, coming from the the very, very top.
00:46:44.559 -->
00:46:46.320You know, these are big companies.
00:46:46.320 -->
00:46:58.000So how do you then take that, those three very large goals and roll them down to the person who's building the product, you know, the person who's putting in the headline or the person who's putting tires on the car?
00:46:58.000 -->
00:47:06.159And it's uh to me, one of the most visual, tangible ways for everyone to understand what their role is.
00:47:07.519 -->
00:47:08.159I love that.
00:47:08.159 -->
00:47:14.559I'm curious if you're advising and applying that now to some of the early stage tech founders.
00:47:14.559 -->
00:47:15.920So how would you apply that?
00:47:15.920 -->
00:47:29.920You're part of the inner tech capital, curious what you're seeing even now in the new technology and how these practices or some of the advice you're giving can help them drive faster from the pro time to scale.
00:47:30.239 -->
00:47:32.320I'm very, very early in my new role.
00:47:32.320 -->
00:47:35.599I just really started, went to my first innovation event.
00:47:35.599 -->
00:47:37.760I was in Toronto two weeks ago, I think.
00:47:37.760 -->
00:47:44.159As companies are interested in me to advise them, yeah, that is something I will uh absolutely bring with me.
00:47:44.159 -->
00:47:59.199Again, like I have a toolbox, and the first thing that I like to do when I go into a new organization is really get to know the under organization and understand the organization, and not go in and say, This is how I've been successful in the past.
00:47:59.199 -->
00:48:00.719This is what I think you should do.
00:48:00.719 -->
00:48:06.639But step back, get to know the organization and say, these are the things that I've done in my past I think will apply to you.
00:48:06.639 -->
00:48:09.679So that's the model that I see myself using moving forward.
00:48:09.920 -->
00:48:25.679Susan, I want to move also a little bit to the book and some of the goals that you have supporting obviously women across quite male-dominated industry that you have been doing for over 17 years, but also don't want to skip of any of your impressive achievements.
00:48:25.679 -->
00:48:45.440So reflecting back, anything I have forgotten to double-click on your impressive career from cancer epidemiology that took you through automotive manufacturing all the way through leadership and building innovation across some of the most complex companies and even driving towards sustainability is certainly impressive.
00:48:45.440 -->
00:49:00.639Um, and you're taking those lessons and practices into what you're doing now, helping the younger tech companies thrive and build new innovative products with your reflect back any key things you want to mention, we didn't double click on.
00:49:01.039 -->
00:49:14.079What I'm really excited about is what I can bring from my past to the future, you know, to the new products and the new systems that are that are being developed.
00:49:14.079 -->
00:49:25.599And um I'm grateful that I I have this opportunity to continue to work um and help founders build companies that are something of merit.
00:49:25.599 -->
00:49:34.639You know, you just don't know when the solution that you're supporting someone on or, you know, is is really gonna really gonna change the world in a meaningful way.
00:49:34.639 -->
00:49:37.119And I'm I'm not looking for kind of like those those big things.
00:49:37.119 -->
00:49:49.360It's a you know a series of of smaller impacts, I think, that, you know, build up and and my career has kind of been one step after another and and it has been a building.
00:49:49.360 -->
00:49:52.320So I've had a very, very exciting career.
00:49:52.320 -->
00:50:00.079I've been really in some interesting places, met some really amazing people, and I'm still I'm looking for, you know, where's the puck going?
00:50:00.320 -->
00:50:04.079And so I'm I'm going actually to your book that I've read recently.
00:50:04.079 -->
00:50:06.000You wrote Still Standing.
00:50:06.000 -->
00:50:11.280It's about turning pain into power and really owning your power.
00:50:11.280 -->
00:50:19.199You talk quite a bit about bettestness and uh how do you focus on driving progress forward?
00:50:19.199 -->
00:50:22.000So it's one of the most honest reads.
00:50:22.000 -->
00:50:27.199What made you decide to write it now and um make it as raw as you actually did?
00:50:27.519 -->
00:50:28.320Thank you for that.
00:50:28.320 -->
00:50:34.719And what really drove me to write it, we'll talk about how I wrote it, but the why I wrote it.
00:50:34.719 -->
00:50:41.760So I've had people say, oh, you know, you have this amazing career, you need to write a book, you've done all these things, other people, you know, are interested.
00:50:41.760 -->
00:50:44.960People want to know how I've been successful.
00:50:44.960 -->
00:50:49.599And as I was thinking about it, so I started it 10 years ago.
00:50:49.599 -->
00:50:55.440So this was, you know, one of those over overnight uh success stories where you, you know, you you started years and years before.
00:50:55.440 -->
00:51:08.000And it what I really wrestled with in my mind is you know, you talk about the glamorous side, I guess, for lack of a better term, or the the positives and you know, how I did this and how I did that.
00:51:08.000 -->
00:51:15.840And, you know, I I've not been in humble industries, you know, I've been in industries where people know the people in the industries that I that I've worked in, right?
00:51:15.840 -->
00:51:16.880Henry Ford, Leah.
00:51:16.880 -->
00:51:23.039I mean, these are larger-than-life industries and they attract larger-than-life people.
00:51:23.039 -->
00:51:27.679And there's a story there that you can write.
00:51:27.679 -->
00:51:32.800But my thought was do I write that kind of like, you know, I'm a badass.
00:51:32.800 -->
00:51:35.679I went in and I did this, and I was the only woman in the room.
00:51:35.679 -->
00:51:43.599And, you know, I worked night shift in a in a really tough plant in Wayne, Michigan, and story after story after story that I could tell.
00:51:43.599 -->
00:51:53.519And I think maybe it goes back to the kind of the vulnerability-based trust model that I've used in my career is, you know, you can tell a story from all kinds of different perspectives.
00:51:53.519 -->
00:52:05.360And I could tell the story from the perspective of, you know, starting with, you know, coming out of college and doing breast cancer research at MD Anderson, you know, I could start that story there.
00:52:05.360 -->
00:52:09.920But there are some really, really foundational pieces that I would be missing.
00:52:09.920 -->
00:52:12.000And so do you, do you put those in?
00:52:12.000 -->
00:52:14.480Are they too personal or do you not?
00:52:14.480 -->
00:52:36.320And I felt like if you're really gonna tell a story, if you're really gonna talk about who you are and how you got where you are, you have to tell the whole story, not the Instagram story, you know, not the Facebook story, but the really gritty, factual, hard truth story.
00:52:36.320 -->
00:52:41.039So that's kind of where that started from.
00:52:41.039 -->
00:52:47.840And so I thought, okay, if I'm gonna do this and I'm really gonna write a book, which like who wakes up thinks they're gonna write a book, especially with a career like mine.
00:52:47.840 -->
00:52:52.000And like I love science and math, and you know, I I love to read.
00:52:52.000 -->
00:53:02.000I didn't do too well in English composition and the people from Granite City, if anyone watches this, Miss Kinsler, when I turned in my papers and English comp came back all red.
00:53:02.000 -->
00:53:03.679It just writing wasn't my thing.
00:53:03.679 -->
00:53:07.039So I thought I'm gonna tell the whole story.
00:53:07.039 -->
00:53:32.320And then when I thought about the how I I told it in from the raw perspective, so my children have grown up with Instagram and Facebook and social media, so they're 23 and 28, you know, and I've seen the impact personally of how this kind of glamorized, you know, idealized, photoshopped view of the world.
00:53:32.320 -->
00:53:35.679It's like it's it's not healthy and it's not true.
00:53:35.679 -->
00:53:39.679I mean, if you, you know, if you looked at most people's Instagram, you know, you think their life is perfect.
00:53:39.679 -->
00:53:40.719Nobody's life is perfect.
00:53:40.719 -->
00:53:43.519So I thought, well, I'm gonna tell the story in a raw way.
00:53:43.519 -->
00:53:53.199And, you know, and then COVID comes about and the suicide rate among young people is is so high, you know, and it's getting worse and worse every year.
00:53:53.199 -->
00:53:55.440And, you know, I don't know if there's cause and effect or not.
00:53:55.440 -->
00:53:57.679I don't want to get myself in any kind of trouble there.
00:53:57.679 -->
00:53:58.719I don't have the details.
00:53:58.719 -->
00:54:05.599But the anecdotal is that social media is driving girls to cut themselves and young people to commit suicide.
00:54:05.599 -->
00:54:17.039And I'm like, if my story can save one person from a life of misery, or worse, a 16-year-old from from doing something that's undoable, right?
00:54:17.039 -->
00:54:19.119Then my my story was worth it.
00:54:19.119 -->
00:54:22.960And I thought the only way to really get the story out there is to tell the truth.
00:54:22.960 -->
00:54:24.239Life is hard.
00:54:24.239 -->
00:54:28.960People don't always realize their impact on other people.
00:54:28.960 -->
00:54:31.519So kind of from two places.
00:54:31.519 -->
00:54:39.679One, I want any young person out there, or any older person for that matter, that thinks that their life isn't worth living because they're different.
00:54:39.679 -->
00:54:48.960You know, I want them to know that they're someone like me, always felt different, always was on the outside, never fit in, and has a life that people want, like write a book.
00:54:48.960 -->
00:54:54.480And I think other people don't really realize how they impact people.
00:54:54.480 -->
00:55:06.559So things that you do to people, you know, being a bully, you know, taking somebody's book or a kid that's different, sitting at the table by themselves, and you know, they already feel like outsiders.
00:55:06.559 -->
00:55:17.519And maybe if I can help someone who's on the other side of that say, wow, I didn't realize that how I treat people can have really devastating impact.
00:55:17.519 -->
00:55:22.400So if my story can help any or all of the above, it's worth it to me.
00:55:22.800 -->
00:55:27.440Well, how oddly it sounds, Susan, it did have the impact on me.
00:55:27.440 -->
00:55:32.639I read it probably in one and a half days, so I started reading and I couldn't put it down.
00:55:32.639 -->
00:55:36.880And it's kind of weird that I'm gonna compare it to a maybe an odd book.
00:55:36.880 -->
00:55:39.519Victor Frankel Men's Search for Meaning.
00:55:39.519 -->
00:55:43.280It's actually one of the books that sits on my nightstand.
00:55:43.280 -->
00:55:46.400Your book had the same impact on me.
00:55:46.800 -->
00:55:49.119That's like the best topic I got in my life.
00:55:49.119 -->
00:55:50.639So wow, thank you.
00:55:50.960 -->
00:55:55.119Everything that I have read, I just couldn't believe, actually, page after page.
00:55:55.119 -->
00:55:58.239In ways I've also resonated.
00:55:58.239 -->
00:56:22.079And uh, you described specifically years of running on what you call ambition fueled by anger in the book, and a lot of the goals that you've achieved in your life were perhaps being that laser vision but focused, but also enduring and going through the experience and just that uh bring-in, and obviously how that shaped you.
00:56:22.079 -->
00:56:27.760So whatever you feel like sharing about that, how long was the positive drive maybe of that?
00:56:27.760 -->
00:56:36.559And I know you're trying to switch that narrative now towards letting yourself feel joy and more towards the self-laugh.
00:56:36.559 -->
00:56:41.599So I know that's a whole transition and probably big question to unpack, take it whichever way you want.
00:56:42.000 -->
00:56:56.880If I had another lifetime to live, I would love to study neurology and brain chemistry and how things impact you and the subconscious and all those kind of things.
00:56:56.880 -->
00:57:00.960And what I've learned over time is this again, this is my opinion.
00:57:00.960 -->
00:57:03.679People can argue with me, they can disagree with me.
00:57:03.679 -->
00:57:13.760But when there is a wound to your psyche, a wound to your self-esteem, you know, a wound to who you are as a person, that wound never fully heals.
00:57:13.760 -->
00:57:17.119So it's always there, you know, if you do a zero to 10.
00:57:17.119 -->
00:57:20.239Is it at a 10 or is that a two or three?
00:57:20.239 -->
00:57:22.320Again, this is my view of the world.
00:57:22.320 -->
00:57:29.039If you can get that down, that 10 down to a two or a three, you've been successful.
00:57:29.039 -->
00:57:31.440And this gets back to my biological background.
00:57:31.440 -->
00:57:49.920I think the survival instincts in us, the biology, what's deeply rooted in our DNA around survival, that will always be there in the back of your mind that, you know, maybe you shouldn't forget about that because remembering that, you know, when that was a 10, it served you well and it helped you survive.
00:57:49.920 -->
00:57:53.519So I'm not, as a brain, I'm not letting you take it to a zero.
00:57:53.519 -->
00:57:55.599I might let you take it to a two or three.
00:57:55.599 -->
00:57:56.960Over time, different things happen.
00:57:56.960 -->
00:58:05.679You get you get older, you have more life experiences, you know, the amount of energy it takes to keep kind of the, you know, the anger at a 10.
00:58:05.679 -->
00:58:10.639I guess, you know, some people probably unfortunately live their whole lives at that kind of 10 level.
00:58:10.639 -->
00:58:16.400But I think most people over time, you learn more, you do more, you have more experiences, and you kind of ramp it down.
00:58:16.400 -->
00:58:21.840But, you know, there are people who who die very unhappy and and very angry.
00:58:21.840 -->
00:58:26.800And I feel very bad for them and more importantly, the people that are around them.
00:58:26.800 -->
00:58:55.119So I think it's that whole kind of survival instinct in humans that either you figure out, and this has been, I've been a work in process, you know, really since 1967 when my dad died, and then even more since the 70s when I was a victim of childhood sexual abuse, which just saying that out loud is so uncomfortable to people around you.
00:58:55.119 -->
00:58:58.320I mean, you'd think it's uncomfortable to me, uncomfortable to me.
00:58:58.320 -->
00:59:14.960But people just immediately, it's like the ultimate shame and the ultimate kind of taboo that no one wants to talk about, no one wants to think about, yet it's unfortunately, you know, happening today as as as we're sitting here on this call.
00:59:14.960 -->
00:59:17.280And I think you've got to bring light to things, right?
00:59:17.280 -->
00:59:22.000You know, if you want to fix things, you've got to be honest, bring light to things.
00:59:22.000 -->
00:59:23.920Very painful, very hard to do.
00:59:23.920 -->
00:59:28.239Anyone that's been through it, there's no good way, there's no roadmap, there's no easy answer.
00:59:28.239 -->
00:59:31.440People write books about it, you know, therapists and all this kind of stuff.
00:59:31.440 -->
00:59:42.880But it's a it's such a deep wound that I think the body, again, this is just me, you know, again, there people may argue with me, the body holds on to it.
00:59:42.880 -->
00:59:59.519And so you have to be really active about moving through that and moving past that and understanding that you can use these experiences, and they don't have to be as as serious as as mine or severe as mine, but you use your life experiences.
00:59:59.519 -->
01:00:02.800You can use them for good if that's something that's important to you.
01:00:02.800 -->
01:00:05.039And it doesn't have to be important to everybody.
01:00:05.039 -->
01:00:11.920I would not ever suggest as someone who's been through what I've been through, be as vulnerable as I've been.
01:00:11.920 -->
01:00:16.800But in my case, I feel like I have the ability to handle the vulnerability.
01:00:16.800 -->
01:00:24.159I'm sure people judge me and I'm sure it's, you know, hurt me in different ways that, you know, the things that people won't say to your face that they say behind your back.
01:00:24.159 -->
01:00:37.199But again, if I can help uh, you know, the the kids sitting at the table by themselves in middle school, you know, in a perfect world, I'd love every eighth grader to have to read my book.
01:00:37.199 -->
01:00:38.800I don't know, you know, I can't mandate that.
01:00:38.800 -->
01:00:43.920And and I'm sure a lot of people would be uncomfortable with it because of some of the subject matter.
01:00:43.920 -->
01:00:47.920But my heart aches for those kids and and those young people.
01:00:47.920 -->
01:00:51.280And I want them to know that life gets better.
01:00:51.280 -->
01:00:56.239And there are kind, good people who want to see you successful.
01:00:56.239 -->
01:00:57.519It's a harsh world.
01:00:57.519 -->
01:00:59.679And it's not like it's a new thing, you know.
01:00:59.679 -->
01:01:03.519I wouldn't want to grow up in Roman times or, you know, or whatever, you know.
01:01:03.519 -->
01:01:10.719I, you know, there's all kinds of periods in the the past that, you know, the past is not always as as great as people think it was.
01:01:10.719 -->
01:01:16.639I mean, I could have never written a book if I'd have written a book like this in the 70s, no one would have ever hired me.
01:01:16.639 -->
01:01:32.480You know, it just I would have been labeled and, you know, the fact that I can even have this conversation to be in a podcast with you and put a book out there may not seem like a lot, but you know, it's a it's big progress in in the ability for humans to to be able to tell their stories.
01:01:32.480 -->
01:01:44.480And I hope, you know, like if nothing else comes out of the book that, you know, it gets to enough people where people can be kinder to you can't make the world be kinder to you, but at least maybe you can be kinder to yourself.
01:01:44.480 -->
01:01:49.440You if you can at least get there, you know, then I'll have succeeded and it's worth it.
01:01:49.760 -->
01:01:50.400I love that.
01:01:50.400 -->
01:01:53.679And it's still one thing that I'm learning also about myself.
01:01:53.679 -->
01:02:01.440Maybe this is the one thing I know you're not a former athlete, although I would say you're upbringing shape to you in crazy ways.
01:02:01.440 -->
01:02:04.559I suggest and recommend everybody to read the book.
01:02:04.559 -->
01:02:18.320You have certainly built a career that is based on discipline like athletics and the focus and always looking to where the pack is going, the strategy and the vision you've put into it.
01:02:18.320 -->
01:02:22.719I do want to dive a little bit into the grid that you talk about in the book.
01:02:22.719 -->
01:02:27.360I love that equation you came up with the girlfriends, resilience, intellect, and time.
01:02:27.360 -->
01:02:30.000I think it can serve many, including myself.
01:02:30.000 -->
01:02:36.320So, how are you practicing becoming gentler and finding maybe more joy and more fun around things?
01:02:36.320 -->
01:02:40.480That is a process on our own that I think all of us are discovering in our own way.
01:02:40.800 -->
01:02:44.000You know, there's an expression out there what time heals all wounds or something like that.
01:02:44.000 -->
01:02:54.320I don't know if it's exactly heals all wounds, but it certainly gives you, gives me, I'll just talk about me, has given me perspective over the years.
01:02:54.320 -->
01:03:02.000And, you know, one of my other favorite expressions is, you know, revenge is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.
01:03:02.000 -->
01:03:07.039I mean, in the end, when you hold on to these things, they only hurt you.
01:03:07.039 -->
01:03:16.079If the other person, obviously, if they were capable of doing something, you know, very bad to you, they probably don't eat aren't even capable of remorse.
01:03:16.079 -->
01:03:23.440So trying to get them to say they're sorry or trying to understand why they did it is really doesn't help, it's it's not helpful to you.
01:03:23.440 -->
01:03:37.679So the realization of things like that over time, you know, there are so many different therapies today and and modalities that go way beyond kind of the talk therapy of my generation.
01:03:37.679 -->
01:03:45.360There's EMDR, there's hallucinogen, there's all kinds of different, you know, the whole biohacking phase.
01:03:45.360 -->
01:03:55.280People are are doing all kinds of different treatments to try to work on some of these these challenges where you're where you're holding on to negativity and and negative energy.
01:03:55.280 -->
01:03:59.840It's it's a journey, and I'm definitely a work in progress.
01:03:59.840 -->
01:04:02.800And, you know, I just I work at a little bit every day.
01:04:02.800 -->
01:04:05.440You know, I've tried meditation, I'm not great at meditation.
01:04:05.440 -->
01:04:09.679I've tried yoga, I'm not great at yoga, but I'm not giving up.
01:04:09.679 -->
01:04:18.559I keep trying to do those kind of things and try the things that work for me, that really help me.
01:04:18.559 -->
01:04:23.199You know, in today's world, there are places you can go to, you know, immerse yourself.
01:04:23.199 -->
01:04:24.400You can, what do they call them?
01:04:24.400 -->
01:04:32.400Digital cleanses now, you know, you can go someplace where you can't be distracted by anything, but you know, you have you have to be there present with your thoughts.
01:04:32.400 -->
01:04:36.719But you know, the time, do the work.
01:04:36.719 -->
01:04:38.079And it's hard work.
01:04:38.079 -->
01:04:45.360And uh there's more availability of of different modalities, but you know, you have to do the work, and that's what that's what I do.
01:04:45.360 -->
01:04:46.559I I do the work.
01:04:46.880 -->
01:04:52.800And specifically, it seems like you found a formula of the girlfriend's resilience, intellect, and time that works for you.
01:04:52.800 -->
01:04:56.719Do you want to elaborate on that or suggest somebody to try it out?
01:04:56.719 -->
01:04:58.559How are you putting it into practice?
01:04:59.039 -->
01:05:05.760You don't need a lot of really good friends, but you know, having a couple really good friends and people can't be everything to you.
01:05:05.760 -->
01:05:09.679Even like a, you know, a partner or a spouse, they can't be everything to you.
01:05:09.679 -->
01:05:20.480And finding people that you you trust that you maybe have similar experiences, that's the other thing I have found is that the girlfriends where we have the shared experience.
01:05:20.480 -->
01:05:34.079I've had a lot of experiences losing a parent, all those other kind of things, but when you have a shared experience of abuse and you can really talk to someone, you know, there's people who are sympathetic and there's people who who are empathetic.
01:05:34.079 -->
01:05:40.880And, you know, somebody who's who's been through what you've been through, I found that to be some of the most healing parts of it.
01:05:40.880 -->
01:05:47.760I'm fortunate that I've been able to do things like go to Miraval and do do spiritual work.
01:05:47.760 -->
01:05:49.280I live in Southern California.
01:05:49.280 -->
01:05:54.400I belong to a gym that does sound baths, I've done breath work, yoga and meditation.
01:05:54.400 -->
01:05:56.320I can go walk the beach.
01:05:56.320 -->
01:06:03.360Um, but even if you don't live in a in a place like I do and you don't Have the access to resources like I do.
01:06:03.360 -->
01:06:05.920You know, find your space, your place.
01:06:05.920 -->
01:06:18.159Some people that may be a church, some people may be a synagogue, it might be a mosque, it might be a mom's group or, you know, whatever, but find that place where you feel safe and you can share and you can really engage.
01:06:18.159 -->
01:06:23.360It's it's a really hard question to answer because it's such an individual journey.
01:06:23.360 -->
01:06:25.920There's a hundred different modalities out there.
01:06:25.920 -->
01:06:29.840And do the trial and error of which ones of those work for you.
01:06:29.840 -->
01:06:33.440There's a book that, and I talk about it in my book, The Body Keeps Score.
01:06:33.440 -->
01:06:36.159And I do believe your body holds on to things.
01:06:36.159 -->
01:06:48.639So, you know, if you can afford a gym working out, if you can't walk, just that movement and energy and getting it, the flow, getting the flow of energy through your body.
01:06:48.639 -->
01:06:51.760But it's such an individual way to do it.
01:06:51.760 -->
01:07:05.679That movement and motion, if if you believe this, and again, this is me, you know, not everybody's gonna agree with, but but I do believe energy gets stuck in the body and finding your way of moving that energy out of your body and finding people that you can really trust.
01:07:05.679 -->
01:07:12.719It doesn't have to be 10 people, you know, one person that you can really talk to, laugh with.
01:07:12.719 -->
01:07:25.599I'm fortunate I have more than one, but you know, I have a couple that I'm really close to and that I have really good conversations with and, you know, that I travel with and that that pull me out of deep places.
01:07:25.599 -->
01:07:32.880So the options of treatment, you know, whatever treatment means, are they're so broad today.
01:07:32.880 -->
01:07:36.880But I think it's if you don't feel safe, nothing works.
01:07:36.880 -->
01:07:51.519And one of the challenges that I've had throughout doing these kind of different modalities is that often I was in a place where either I was in a job or in a relationship or or for whatever reason, I just could never feel safe and I could kind of never drop my guard.
01:07:51.519 -->
01:07:56.159It's really hard work to be able to drop your guard and let the work happen.
01:07:56.159 -->
01:08:05.440And I would love to say I have the answer to that, but figure out where your safe space is, my again, my experience, and that allows healing to happen.
01:08:05.760 -->
01:08:06.320I love that.
01:08:06.320 -->
01:08:09.440And just trying and being intuitive, what works for you.
01:08:09.440 -->
01:08:11.280There's not one size fits all.
01:08:11.280 -->
01:08:14.000It's definitely one one thing I'll continue to learn.
01:08:14.000 -->
01:08:17.119And different things may work at different times of our life.
01:08:17.119 -->
01:08:20.880So what hasn't worked 10 years ago doesn't mean that maybe it won't work now.
01:08:20.880 -->
01:08:25.119And so I'm constantly testing kind of few things and what works the best.
01:08:25.119 -->
01:08:28.079Diving into now what's ahead.
01:08:28.079 -->
01:08:35.119I know in your book you also wrote about your act three, kind of how you're describing a goal and making calculated jumps.
01:08:35.119 -->
01:08:45.359Is some of the risks you have taken with gone through your impressive career and your ability to see opportunities and jump in full speed ahead and take risks.
01:08:45.359 -->
01:08:48.720What does that feel like compared maybe to earlier in your career?
01:08:48.960 -->
01:08:50.000That's a great question.
01:08:50.000 -->
01:08:53.279And that's that's kind of my work in progress right now.
01:08:53.279 -->
01:08:56.640You know, I've been in the workforce since the mid-80s.
01:08:56.640 -->
01:09:01.359I've seen a lot of change, I've met a lot of people, I've done a lot of things.
01:09:01.359 -->
01:09:03.840And what do I, you know, want to do?
01:09:03.840 -->
01:09:06.800There's almost too many things out there that I want to do.
01:09:06.800 -->
01:09:10.800I'm really excited about advising founders.
01:09:10.800 -->
01:09:12.479Do I go back?
01:09:12.479 -->
01:09:14.800And I always wanted to get a PhD.
01:09:14.800 -->
01:09:17.039You know, do I go back and study biotech?
01:09:17.039 -->
01:09:21.760And, you know, it's some of the foundational principles are the same, but so much has changed.
01:09:21.760 -->
01:09:24.560Do I go work in government?
01:09:24.560 -->
01:09:25.920You know, do I volunteer?
01:09:25.920 -->
01:09:34.479So yeah, you'll have to check in with me a year from now and I'll be able to answer the question less evasively because I really don't know.
01:09:34.479 -->
01:09:42.000And it's a great place to be, but it's also challenging when there's, you know, there are so many possibilities.
01:09:42.560 -->
01:09:47.359Well, if there's anything I can support you, even from a brainstorming perspective, Susan, I'm all in.
01:09:47.359 -->
01:09:49.760So feel free to use me in any capacity.
01:09:49.760 -->
01:10:01.039But I do want to also dive to one cause that has been true to you, obviously, even through your story, being able to be woman leader in very heavy, male-dominated industry.
01:10:01.039 -->
01:10:05.279You found it said an outer women's forum actually back in 2009.
01:10:05.279 -->
01:10:22.720So you've always been on supporting women through 17 years ago, actually, before it became mainstream, and being able to help them navigate how to grow in their careers, in their profession, giving them the courage through your support and process.
01:10:22.720 -->
01:10:24.319So maybe share a little bit about that.
01:10:24.800 -->
01:10:36.000I'm really proud of the work that Southern Automotive Women's Forum Forum has done and the impact it's had, and the women who, you know, put sweat equity into it.
01:10:36.000 -->
01:10:40.640And, you know, these are some of the busiest, most hardworking women you'll you'll ever meet.
01:10:40.640 -->
01:10:44.399And they, you know, want to give back scholarships and mentoring.
01:10:44.399 -->
01:10:57.439And there's a program All Girls Ought to Know, A-U-T-O, that is a way to impact them so that they get a visualization of what a STEM career looks like instead of somebody coming and talking, you know, someone like me or an engineer coming to talk to you.
01:10:57.439 -->
01:10:59.840Actually, you know, it's a hands-on program.
01:10:59.840 -->
01:11:04.159The expression to who much is given, much is expected.
01:11:04.159 -->
01:11:13.760And, you know, a lot of things have happened to me in my life, but I've also had an amazing number of people who have supported me.
01:11:13.760 -->
01:11:16.960People I know, people I, you know, don't know.
01:11:16.960 -->
01:11:26.640Um, you know, you never really know everyone and you know who who's around you, who's who's impacting you, who's who's making your life better.
01:11:26.640 -->
01:11:30.159Or someone made a decision that will change your life fundamentally.
01:11:30.159 -->
01:11:36.319When I was in high school, I wanted to leave home for if you read the book, it's obvious reasons.
01:11:36.319 -->
01:11:40.159I wanted to go as far away from where I grew up as I could get.
01:11:40.159 -->
01:11:43.520And I applied to Northern Arizona University.
01:11:43.520 -->
01:11:44.319I got in.
01:11:44.319 -->
01:11:47.680I I thought, okay, this is like it's beautiful.
01:11:47.680 -->
01:11:59.840And my grandmother had taken me on a bus tour, and when I was in fifth grade, you know, it was me and you know, at the time, 60 seemed so old, you know, and a bunch of 60-year-old people going across country.
01:11:59.840 -->
01:12:02.399And I, you know, I thought it was the most beautiful place I'd ever been.
01:12:02.399 -->
01:12:07.840But my guidance counselor, whose name I could not tell you, called me down to her office.
01:12:07.840 -->
01:12:16.800And, you know, this is a my high school was pretty old, and guidance counselors were down in the basement, and uh at the time, you know, 50, 70-year-old high school.
01:12:16.800 -->
01:12:19.439And she's like, Why even you apply to University of Illinois?
01:12:19.439 -->
01:12:21.119I'm like, I'm not going to University of Illinois.
01:12:21.119 -->
01:12:23.199She goes, You're gonna go to University of Illinois.
01:12:23.199 -->
01:12:25.840And I'm like, No, I'm I'm not going to University of Illinois.
01:12:25.840 -->
01:12:29.439And so she made me sit in her office and fill out the old bubble chart form.
01:12:29.439 -->
01:12:35.920So younger people won't even know what that is, but we used to have to fill out things with and fill in the bubbles.
01:12:35.920 -->
01:12:40.800And she submitted, it was the last day to submit to University of Illinois.
01:12:40.800 -->
01:12:48.079And I got in it it consistently, and and back then too, it was rated one of the top schools in the country.
01:12:48.079 -->
01:13:02.079But she knew, and it was a small enough towns, it was very obvious to her that there was no way that I had the financial resources to pay to go to an out-of-state school, you know, move to an out of state location.
01:13:02.079 -->
01:13:03.920And and she was exactly right.
01:13:03.920 -->
01:13:06.399I, you know, didn't have any resources.
01:13:06.399 -->
01:13:11.439I had my wit and my desire, but I did not have, you know, money in the banks.
01:13:11.439 -->
01:13:17.439And so, um, you know, I was able to get the Pell Grant, get loans, uh, work to get through school.
01:13:17.439 -->
01:13:20.079But, you know, I couldn't even tell you what her name was.
01:13:20.079 -->
01:13:26.399But, you know, people like that have come into my life, and I have hundreds of stories like that, maybe thousands.
01:13:26.399 -->
01:13:30.079And I feel that really strong pull.
01:13:30.079 -->
01:13:34.319My grandmother was a very, very community-minded person.
01:13:34.319 -->
01:13:57.439And she was the the president of our women's club, and she was a voting judge, and you know, she just she just believed that, you know, fundamentally in the power of giving back and giving in your community and being a a role model in your community, even if you're gonna plant trees today that you'll never be able to get the benefit of the shade from.
01:13:57.439 -->
01:14:02.239That kind of value-based upbringing really has impacted me.
01:14:02.239 -->
01:14:19.279And so I'm hoping that there are young girls who've been impacted and women in the auto industry and in the southeast United States that have impact been impacted by SAWF, and that uh it's been a good, good experience, good for them, and built a stronger community and stronger leaders.
01:14:19.600 -->
01:14:34.079Maybe even on that, and we've gone through your whole, if I could say, crazy journey from just your upbringing all the way through the success you have been able to create in a male-dominated industry.
01:14:34.079 -->
01:14:44.000And you've shared the wins and some of the positive impacts that you've had in leadership, but I don't know that there was a lot of hard learnings that you talked about in your book.
01:14:44.000 -->
01:14:51.520Reflecting back, what would you want maybe women in the earlier career to perhaps do differently?
01:14:51.520 -->
01:15:05.680I know you've shared a little bit about the networking, maybe there was one thing that you had to step in in your direct role, but anything else that you feel like is missing and you would want to inspire women to be putting more into practice?
01:15:06.000 -->
01:15:19.840So many things that I've learned, and you know, and what I would say is if I need to apply kind of to today's world, so some things are better than when I was in the workplace, some things are the same.
01:15:19.840 -->
01:15:27.920Again, this is what I view as my perspective that women feel a drive, a need to be perfect.
01:15:27.920 -->
01:15:32.640You know, you've got to be perfect at work, perfect at home, perfect children.
01:15:32.640 -->
01:15:40.720When I grew up, you know, you you had kind of your family, your community kind of, you know, giving you the, you know, the boundary conditions of what good look like.
01:15:40.720 -->
01:15:43.199Now you just, there's so much information.
01:15:43.199 -->
01:15:51.520And you look at some people's lives on Instagram or Facebook or whatever, you know, whatever else is is out there, threads.
01:15:51.520 -->
01:16:02.319And I guess if if I could just give one piece of advice to especially younger women in today's workforce is, and and this is something I didn't do, you know, is to be kinder to yourself.
01:16:02.319 -->
01:16:04.239There is no such thing as perfection.
01:16:04.239 -->
01:16:05.199There just isn't.
01:16:05.199 -->
01:16:17.520And the the pursuit of it will waste a lot of time and energy and will, you know, again, my experience suck the joy out of out of your life and be fulfilled, do good work.
01:16:17.520 -->
01:16:19.119You're not going to be perfect.
01:16:19.119 -->
01:16:22.000So that that's kind of the the one side of it.
01:16:22.000 -->
01:16:25.439But the abundant side of it is it is an abundant world out there.
01:16:25.439 -->
01:16:27.600Take risks, take chances.
01:16:27.600 -->
01:16:34.319You know, if you think you can do something or you want to want to try, don't be naive, but take those chances.
01:16:34.319 -->
01:16:40.960I've had good, I've had bad, and the chances I've taken, but I don't regret any of them that I've taken.
01:16:40.960 -->
01:16:43.680There are lessons I've learned, things I might have done differently.
01:16:43.680 -->
01:16:45.520Be kinder to yourself.
01:16:45.520 -->
01:16:48.159And if if you want something, go for it.
01:16:48.399 -->
01:16:48.960I love it.
01:16:48.960 -->
01:16:51.920It seems like that advice is actually across the board.
01:16:51.920 -->
01:16:59.039One of my typical questions I ask, anything you would want to inspire anyone listening to be doing more of or less of.
01:16:59.039 -->
01:17:04.319It seems like taking those baths and opportunities and looking for them, but anything you want to add?
01:17:04.720 -->
01:17:15.199In a world, it seems like it's constrained and where the amount of information that comes at people is not just significant, you know, it's a significant amount of information.
01:17:15.199 -->
01:17:16.479It's not always positive.
01:17:16.479 -->
01:17:18.079And again, life is tough.
01:17:18.079 -->
01:17:18.640I get that.
01:17:18.640 -->
01:17:23.279But but life is also beautiful and there's so much abundance.
01:17:23.279 -->
01:17:29.600And it, and particularly in today's world, when you listen to a podcast, AI is gonna take over the world.
01:17:29.600 -->
01:17:34.880All of our bosses are gonna be robots, and everybody's job is gonna be taken away.
01:17:34.880 -->
01:17:38.720And then you listen to another podcast, AI is gonna improve health care.
01:17:38.720 -->
01:17:45.119It's gonna cut the time, you know, to find a cure for some rare disease by 90%.
01:17:45.119 -->
01:17:48.640So you get a lot of information, you get conflicting information.
01:17:48.640 -->
01:17:57.600Some of it's, you know, doom and gloom, some of it's maybe too positive, but you know, somewhere in the middle is the truth.
01:17:57.600 -->
01:18:02.319And I've lived through a lot of things in my life in my lifetime.
01:18:02.319 -->
01:18:07.680And overall, you know, generally, I've found that the good outweighs the bad.
01:18:08.000 -->
01:18:08.720I love that.
01:18:08.720 -->
01:18:14.960And on that note, and maybe on a closing, I suggest anyone to read the book still standing.
01:18:14.960 -->
01:18:20.079I got it from Amazon, but do you have a favorite place, Susan, that people can get it and order it?
01:18:20.560 -->
01:18:23.680Since it's self-published, Amazon is is the best place.
01:18:23.680 -->
01:18:28.159So I do use a pseudonym for some of the reasons that we've talked about.
01:18:28.159 -->
01:18:31.920So it's under S J A Y N E Brennan.
01:18:31.920 -->
01:18:39.520So if you go into Amazon and put still standing and put S Jane with a Y in it, Brennan, it'll come up.
01:18:39.520 -->
01:18:49.840What I would ask of people is, you know, if you one, read it, two, if it's impactful, give it to young people that you think, you know, can benefit from.
01:18:49.840 -->
01:19:02.640It doesn't have to be a young person, but in general, I find, as I talked about, kind of the time continuum, you know, when you're early and you're trying to figure out who you are, if it can help someone, please give it, write a review on Amazon.
01:19:02.640 -->
01:19:04.000I would I'd appreciate that.
01:19:04.000 -->
01:19:13.279And if I can impact one person or help one person's life, and I'd like to be able to impact a lot more than that, but you gotta start with one.
01:19:13.680 -->
01:19:14.239Excellent.
01:19:14.239 -->
01:19:14.880Thank you.
01:19:14.880 -->
01:19:19.199And I'll add a link actually to the show notes so people can easily find it.
01:19:19.199 -->
01:19:24.880And if anybody wants to reach out, Susan, what's the best way to follow you or get in touch?
01:19:25.279 -->
01:19:32.000My uh website, Susan Brennanleadership.com, um, my emails info at Susan Brennanleadership.com.
01:19:32.000 -->
01:19:33.920So those are generally the two best ways.
01:19:33.920 -->
01:19:35.119And I'm on LinkedIn.
01:19:35.119 -->
01:19:42.000Obviously, I'm on all social media, but but from a professional standpoint, LinkedIn is the mechanism and the best way to reach me.
01:19:42.319 -->
01:19:42.800Excellent.
01:19:42.800 -->
01:19:44.319And I'll add those as well.
01:19:44.319 -->
01:19:54.960Thank you so much, Susan, for your time and sharing your grandslam journey and hope to stay in touch and support the mission and whatever you're diving into next in any way I can.
01:19:55.279 -->
01:20:01.439I really appreciate it, and thank you again for your time and your interest in my uh journey, my story and the and the book.
01:20:01.439 -->
01:20:06.159I you know, I hope that my life experience can help others.
01:20:06.479 -->
01:20:11.439I'm certain it can, and thank you for bringing it to life and sharing it so openly with us.
01:20:11.439 -->
01:20:12.319Thank you.
01:20:12.319 -->
01:20:13.600I'm grateful.
01:20:13.600 -->
01:20:17.920Thank you for tuning in to Grand Slam Journey.
01:20:17.920 -->
01:20:21.199Subscribe, share, and join us for the next conversation.
01:20:21.199 -->
01:20:22.479Let's go.
