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Philippa Soo is a Tony and Emmy-nominated and Grammy award-winning actress and singer.
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She is most well known for originating the role of Eliza Hamilton in the Broadway musical, Hamilton.
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Her many Broadway credits also include Amelie, Into the Woods, and The Parisian Woman.
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Philippa is a co-author of the children's book Piper Chen Sings, a New York Times bestseller.
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Philippa co-founded the Eliza Project in 2015 to give youth at Graham the opportunity to use the arts for expression.
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And I want to, again, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me today.
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Thank you, Ms. Watson. Thank you for that introduction. I really wish I had an intro for you.
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We could introduce each other to each other.
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So it feels like I'm talking to family. So when I'm talking to family, you know, I'm very plain talking.
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Yes, please, please, let's go. And I feel like you're family because in a sense you are.
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in the last 10 years since the, actually, maybe the following year after Hamilton opened,
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the connection between Graham as the orphanage, you can say the classic line.
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Yeah.
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and the revelation that that orphanage still exists, the work that Eliza was so proud of.
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And we're here today, we'll be celebrating 220 years. Amazing. It is. 220 years.
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We as an organization have lived through just about every event in American history.
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And, which is not only a source of pride for me, particularly as a leader and I think us as an organization, but also a source of strength.
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Source of strength. So you're "Graham Fam." That's what we, that's how we refer.
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I love it. And I'm gonna immediately start crying already.
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You talking about 220 years and the connection, it's all got me, it's like got me right back in that head space all over again.
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It's incredible, incredible. And so Graham starts out as an,
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starts out as what we would call today a group home.
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People don't realize that, don't know that it didn't start out as an orphanage,
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but because the need was so great, the need to be able to support children and families even then
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when folks didn't quite know what to call it because what was created didn't really exist in other places.
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Graham is the oldest non-sectarian child caring organization.
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And it took me a while to really understand what that meant, where in most countries,
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even here in the United States, orphanages were run by churches or religious organizations.
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Graham was the first non-religious organization to be able to provide support and care for children,
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regardless of their backgrounds, religion, economic status, et cetera.
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So I'm pretty proud, always pretty proud about that. Yes. And so that's the Graham legacy.
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And we continue over these 220 years to evolve to be what communities need. But we'll talk a little bit more about that.
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Hamilton! So I have a whole list of questions, but let's start there. Talk about how you
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came into your work, into performance, the performing arts,
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and talk a little bit about that trajectory, how you got started.
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So it all started in a little hospital in Libertyville, Illinois, where I was born.
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I won't go back that far, but speaking of young people, I think, really this all started when I was young.
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And I often start, when I talk about my journey as an artist,
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and the full circle and where I'm always trying to come back to, it's that young person
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who has curiosity, who has drive to an extent, but more just an excitement about the unknown,
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and a willingness to dive into things and learn and grow and fall
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for the sake of maybe finding something greater. And when I was a kid, I was extremely imaginative
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I was playing, with my stuffed animals and my dolls in my room.
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And I have this very good friend that I grew up with and she and I would play dolls.
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And she would always be spending hours setting up the house.
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And trying to get, getting the curtains just right and their pillows on their bed.
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And I would just be sitting there like, okay, who's their dad and who's their mom
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and where are they going? And what's the story? What's the story? Like, what's the action?
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And I ended up becoming an actor and she ended up becoming an interior designer. Wow.
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So I just think it's a testament to an example of fostering creativity in young people.
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It's so important because it actually could end up being what they do for a living.
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And God knows that thinking creatively, whether you're in the arts or not,
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is such an asset to the world that we live in.
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Every great idea started, every great invention started out as an idea,
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started out as someone being curious and creative about something.
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So that's really where my journey to Hamilton started.
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And then, you know, got into the theater in school and did choir and
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I did this wonderful thing called the Illinois All-State Theater Festival
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where I got to meet kids from all over the state and put on a show with them and then practice,
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go to play practice and rehearse and do that for one weekend every month
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starting in about September until January. And then we put the show up on its feet.
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And this is with a group of strangers really. And we all just had this passion for doing theater
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and we would rehearse our little butts off.
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And then we would get to Illinois All-State Theater Festival,
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which was either at Illinois State University or University of Illinois.
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They would alternate year to year. And we'd put up the show in like a week.
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And like, when I looked back, I'm like, wow, that was really amazing that these high schoolers
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were so driven to make something and get something out there and put something on its feet
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and we all said yes. And it was kind of incredible.
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Two things. One, I didn't know you were a Midwesterner. Yeah.
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So that's, so, we have a little bit of a shared experience.
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Are you a Midwesterner? I went to high school in Minnesota.
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So yeah, I did my teen years there.
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And so that's one thing. And then you, so I always thought you were from New York.
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So that's a big surprise. Yeah, I'm kind of blown away by that.
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So making, I think two things are really interesting. The career choice or the choice to move forward
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in the performing arts. But then coming from the Midwest to New York
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and then being on Broadway, what was that like?
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Well, unexpected entirely. I, growing up outside of Chicago, I saw a lot of theater in Chicago
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and through, you know, friends and my mom, she worked in the theater a little bit.
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So I had an understanding through actors that were working in Chicago that like it was a way to
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make a living and a thing that you could do with your life that didn't necessarily involve
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becoming a famous quote unquote famous actor.
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which was really intriguing to me because I was already kind of like I was a very shy kid growing up,
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like I wasn't shy. I was scared to perform in front of people,
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though in my life I was like, "AAH!" like super free. But when it came to performing,
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I got super nervous. And so this idea of like living and working and being an actor,
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but not necessarily having to be on the spot and, put yourself out there in a really public way
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felt really intriguing to me. And I wanted to study acting.
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So I got into theater school, which brought me to New York.
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And I graduated and auditioned like crazy and booked a job called,
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a show called Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812. And that was my first professional job.
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And that was where Lin-Manuel Miranda, and Tommy Kale saw me perform for the first time.
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And they invited me to come join them for some readings of Hamilton
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and that's kind of the rest is history. Yeah. And what are they saying back in Illinois about that?
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They're very excited. They're so proud. I love it. It's great. Yeah.
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So I have a confession, a confession around Hamilton. I don't know if it's safe.
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Should I do it or not, but I'm going to do it. Well, you can edit it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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No, actually it's good. Well, it involves someone who's not in the room.
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And so we have kind of like this code about "nothing about me without me,"
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but I'll do it anyway.
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Sure. So Graham was gifted with tickets to be able to go see Hamilton when it opened.
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And I think it was the year that we honored, was it Ron Chernow that we, I can't remember if
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it was all in the same year. So we had gotten the gift of the tickets.
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We'd gotten the Chernow book about Alexander Hamilton. And I remember talking to
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one of our colleagues who's not in the room. I don't know if it's fair
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to call Sharmeela's name, but I'm going to do it, who asked me if I was going to go to see Hamilton.
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Was I going to use my ticket or was I going? And I knew nothing about the production
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other than it was about Alexander Hamilton. And so I'm sitting there with this big, thick book.
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And I said, "Two hours of Alexander Hamilton? No, no thank you. You can take my ticket."
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So she says, she does ask me again, "Kym, are you sure? Are you sure? And I was like, "Yeah,
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I think I'm fairly sure." Fast forward, everyone comes back. They talk about how great it was,
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how wonderful it is. And this was not like I wasn't YouTubing at the time.
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So like, to go and see what it was about. But somehow I think my son was singing like
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parts of the soundtrack. Just like, listening to parts. And I was like, "Man, that's pretty cool.
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What are you listening to?" "Oh, this is Hamilton." And I stopped in my tracks. I said, "what?"
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And so I said, "play that back." And it's, "Wrote My Way Out." Oh!
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Like the first time I heard that song, I cried.
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I seriously, like, I was like, "Jalil, play that again."
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And I was like, that's my story.
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Like, I wrote literally like wrote my way out, went to school to get out of the poverty that I,
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you know, knew and grew up in.
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This is my story.
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And I, and that's, you know, I listened to that and began, and I was like, wait a minute,
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This was Hamilton.
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I was like, irate after I found out.
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But Sharmeela absolutely, I think, knew, "I don't think she knows what this is, that this is not good."
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"Oh, you don't want your ticket? Okay..."
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Yeah, right, exactly.
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"You sure can."
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"Aw, that's too bad."
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So we have a laugh about that now.
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Oh, you have, you've seen it.
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Yes, I have.
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Thank God.
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Love.
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Listen, the soundtrack is like my children.
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I have grands, my grands.
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I mean, we all absolutely
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Love it.
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And again, not just taking history and refashioning history, it's not that.
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It really is, I think for me anyway, like being almost in the position of understanding who this man was
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as an individual, the challenges that he had,
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personally and then what was happening nationally, like what was happening in our nation,
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that there's so much that I know I could identify with, and that I think many of us could identify with.
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So talk about identification with being Eliza.
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Oh gosh, it was a very emotional and powerful journey getting to know her as a person because
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really there wasn't a lot available.
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I had to do some digging.
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And I also think even more important than the facts, my job is to understand what makes
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a person do what they need to do in their lives.
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And I was so struck by her fortitude, her love, her capacity for loving so
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many people and loving Alexander Hamilton so much that she needed to do this for him after he passed.
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It was really inspiring just for me as a person, as a young adult.
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I certainly, it was the first time that I really understood my identity as an American citizen
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and what it looks like to participate in democracy.
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And also as an artist, what does it look like to tell a story where
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the agenda is not to answer questions, but to ask them?
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And especially for Eliza, I felt this responsibility, especially because there's a physical
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manifestation of her love and her work, Graham Windham.
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It became even more palpable, this desire to really
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do her story justice.
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And at first it was very daunting.
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But then I sort of released into just the beauty and the compassion that she had for humanity.
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And that was my story.
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That was my journey on stage was my love for him, my love for my sisters,
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the power of sisterhood. I mean,
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It just had so much to unearth that being in a show for a year,
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I still feel like there's things that I can go back and dig out and look into.
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And it's just, I think, a testament to how wonderful the writing is and how wonderful their legacy
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and their story is.
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I don't know if it's fair to you, but to think about being the Eliza that folks will know going forward.
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say for the next generation or so, that you're Eliza, there are not lots and lots of pictures of her.
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There are some that have become like, this is Eliza, right?
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But there's not lots and lots of pictures.
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By her own volition, there's not a lot of letters and, you know,
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things that chronicle who she was.
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She took herself out of the narrative.
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And when we think about the role of women in that time
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and how diminished the women were, that Eliza and the women who founded Graham,
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of which we're so proud, were really, you know, they were really way ahead of their time and really
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began, I think, to lay down the footprints, I think, that other women leaders would
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walk in, the path that they would walk in.
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And so for you to be almost kind of like the embodiment of those characteristics and
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the virtues that Eliza, you know, demonstrated, I think, is so powerful.
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And what do you think about that, in terms of you being the person who kind of makes sure that
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that legacy continues in your personification of her role?
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Oh my gosh, it's an honor, truly.
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I think to be able to say that I get to tell stories for a living is already such an honor and a privilege.
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I wouldn't
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change it for the world with all of its ups and downs and crazy things that happened
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as being an actor, but I think the responsibility of stepping into someone's shoes,
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let alone someone who actually was a living, breathing person in the world,
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it's, I mean, I don't even know how else to describe it other than the greatest honor of an artist's life
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to be able to do that and to be able to
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share with other people a small way into a way a person thinks.
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Not just what did they do?
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What are the facts?
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Who did they marry?
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Who are their children?
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You know, but to really look into a person's soul and find it somewhere between all of the facts,
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the person that was behind all of the things that you read about them.
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And what kind of a person dedicates their life's work to serving others?
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Where did they grow up?
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What kinds of things did they experience?
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And it's almost so simple, but I think the assignment was really to allow myself to be
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a vessel for the story as opposed to feeling like I needed to
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be the Eliza for everybody.
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I was like, I was really actually more interested in serving her story
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the way that she was serving other people in her lifetime.
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I really wanted to, and maybe that's, you can sort of see it in the performance,
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but I really thought that she was such a good listener.
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She struck me as being someone who's very observant, bubbly and loving, you know,
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especially as you see her grow from her youth to her older age, but
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someone that just has a very large capacity to take in so much, because she really did,
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and she was able to handle it for the rest of her life.
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So that was my only job, truly, was just to be there, make sure everything that I said was clear,
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say the words, and allow her journey to wash over me so that other people can
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also feel that journey.
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Phillipa, that is such, I think that is so right.
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And the listen, the quality of listening.
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I really, I've asked myself since I've been at Graham,
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how is it that some of the qualities we saw in the founding mothers
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continues to this day in the leadership and in the folks who commit to doing this work,
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those same qualities kind of have continued along a long time and then along the trajectory of time.
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And so listening is absolutely right that first of all, when we think about her beginnings
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and the family and the stock she came from, she did not have to take up
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this work.
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She did not have to do it.
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That's to start.
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Secondly, she was the mother of many children.
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And so one would think, well, she's got her hands filled full with her own kids and her own concerns.
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And we already know the financial situation that she was in after Alexander died, was killed.
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And she could have totally have been absorbed with her own condition.
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yet she was not.
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She had these other ventures that were so important for her to carry through.
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And so, when I think about the fact that she didn't have to, she didn't have to do this,
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but she chose to.
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And listening being, I think,
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we were talking earlier about superpowers, right?
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Love being a superpower, listening being her superpower.
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So today, Graham, we have this thing we call radical listening, which is a component.
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I love that.
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Isn't that wonderful?
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What is radical listening?
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And we say radical listening leads to radical change.
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And it really is about
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Not listening.
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So when folks listen, they listen so they can, all right, come on, let's get to the heart of what it is
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that I got to do, what I got to hear, what I have to respond to.
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Radical listening is different from that.
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Radical listening really involves being in the dialogue,
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trying to come to an understanding of what it is that you're concerned about, not what I want to do,
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how I want to resolve this, and just move on to the next thing.
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And then in doing that, finding the solution in
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what it is you're saying.
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Like many times we have the answer, but sometimes it takes the culling to
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pull it out, to pull it forward.
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And that the change, that the change or the solution we're trying to get to
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really comes because we've listened, because we've really.
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really are listening to understand.
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We're asking the questions that make it, that pull out what it is that
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the information that we need to know so that
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to get to the next step to provide the helpful help, something that we also have coined,
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that it's coming directly from what we've learned because we've engaged in this process of
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communication that is not just trying to get to the end of what it is you're saying.
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And so many times, it's really about that, right?
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It's not active listening.
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It's not really reflective.
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But I just want to hear what you're getting to so either I can respond or I can move along my way.
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Radical listening is not that.
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Radical listening to me feels like a choice
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to put yourself in a vulnerable position of, which is I think great.
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I think vulnerability is like, it's literally everything I do is about seeking places
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where you can find vulnerability because that's where I think great acting happens.
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But speaking to radical listening and choosing to
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put yourself in a vulnerable position where you might say, I don't know, or I can't do this by myself.
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I actually need to put my energy towards something else and receive something
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in order to move forward and do something for myself. But this idea of self-care is
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holistic, that it's not just about yourself, it's about the whole world.
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world, right.
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And the more that we can see ourselves as a part of a whole,
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yes, we are a single organism in all of this, but we are a part of a whole,
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we'll immediately open up ourselves to all sorts of wonderful things that could change our lives.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And I love that.
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Did we write that down?
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We're going to make sure.
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It's recorded.
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Here and now.
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That's right.
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That is excellent.
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That is excellent.
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And yes, you're right, that it opens the receiver up and the giver of that information.
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It's absolutely right to do the two way.
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But also I love that it's radical in the sense that it might not be perfect.
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Right.
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Like you're going out on a limb.
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It might actually fall on its face.
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It might be very messy, this exchange.
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but it's there.
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Like there's an energy that's percolating between you and another person or you in a group
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or a group in a group.
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And that is something.
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That's like the power of what humans can do.
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That's exactly right.
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And how it is when we look over the years of what Graham has,
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the innovation that Graham has been a part of creating along with,
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because there's nothing that Graham does alone.
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We do it in partnership with the families, in partnership with kids. When we think about
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what that process has looked like, it is just what you described.
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It's not linear.
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It's not clean.
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Often, we've got to go backtrack to make sure that we heard it, got it right,
316
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and that we're not running ahead. We call it running ahead to solution,
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like trying, oh, so that's what it is?
318
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No, no, no, no.
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Back up.
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There's more to this.
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So the work that we're doing, for example, we're doing this work that we've called "Reckoning"
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work, which is addressing the harms of the child welfare system.
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And for many folks, this is
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radical to look at it and talk about it that way when I think most folks would think, well,
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child services or working with children and families should always be helpful
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and why should anyone be harmed?
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But the truth of the matter is that it's not always helpful.
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But in the Reckoning work we're doing, listening and talking to
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to youth, to parents, to community partners, to our staff who do this work is to, number one,
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put away the assumptions, put away the defenses and get and really listen to and hear what
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what the reality of our involvement with those families is.
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I love what you guys do.
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I've always loved what you guys do.
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And it's a great reminder, just in my own life,
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I shouldn't be surprised if I ever feel like it shouldn't be messy.
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Because I think the world also is telling us
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that we're meant to get things right away, that if you buy this, then therefore you'll feel that.
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Like it's all a part of this very- Telling us how to feel.
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Commercial, capitalist, like strategized plan on how to be a good human.
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And I just love that there's a level of catering to
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all the multifaceted ways that we present and show ourselves in the world as people
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that we're not always linear.
343
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Yeah, that's right.
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Yeah.
345
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So there's two things I want to talk about before we end today.
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Eliza Project.
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Talk about the creation of the Eliza Project and what that meant for you and that work.
348
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It was so magical.
349
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at a time where it felt like the world was going so fast,
350
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I felt like I looked forward to those sessions, you know, every time.
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I think it was like a handful of times that we met with the students and Morgan Marcell,
352
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my castmate, she and I created the Eliza Project.
353
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And it really just came from figuring out that Graham Windham was a real place
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and that I could go there and it was still, I mean, I was like, what? This is crazy.
355
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And
356
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being so moved by my experience there and meeting the staff and meeting the students
357
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and the faculty, I just thought like, what an opportunity to connect.
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I had done some work, teaching in college and my summer job growing up was teaching kids theater.
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So like I, yeah, so I was
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really excited to maybe get a chance to connect and with such gratitude towards Graham Windham
361
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and making it happen for us. We got to spend some sessions working with the kids
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and young adults, I should say. I mean, they were just so awesome and so creative.
363
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And some of the cast came and we got to play some theater games, do some exercises,
364
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theater exercises, make some music, have some laughs, do some improv.
365
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And
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I think that joy was had by all and I like to think that somewhere, wherever Eliza is in this moment,
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her soul, her spirit, there's a level of acknowledgement that
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this couldn't have happened without her.
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Eliza Project.
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Talk about the creation of the Eliza Project.
371
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We wouldn't otherwise have.
372
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Like that's kind of why I became an artist.
373
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Like the chance to meet new people and see new faces and connect and get to know people.
374
00:29:26,543 --> 00:29:30,103
I think that's really powerful and I'm really, really grateful that we got to do it.
375
00:29:31,263 --> 00:29:34,463
Yeah.
And again, how, again, your legacy, right?
376
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That there are gonna be youth who are gonna remember those moments
377
00:29:38,738 --> 00:29:41,303
and those opportunities with you,
378
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and the work that you all did there.
379
00:29:44,623 --> 00:29:49,303
And how much that will influence some of the ways in which they show up.
380
00:29:49,743 --> 00:29:51,503
I hope, yeah, I hope.
381
00:29:51,503 --> 00:29:58,436
I mean, it was brief, but I think that there's something to be said about taking a step away
382
00:29:58,436 --> 00:30:04,728
from your sort of normal schedule and taking time to really engage with a young person.
383
00:30:04,728 --> 00:30:05,228
I think it's awesome.
384
00:30:05,263 --> 00:30:08,143
So today is election day.
385
00:30:09,984 --> 00:30:10,704
I voted today.
386
00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:13,664
I'm so happy.
387
00:30:13,984 --> 00:30:16,584
And I'm not going to ask you who you voted for.
388
00:30:16,584 --> 00:30:17,664
I'm not going to do that.
389
00:30:17,984 --> 00:30:25,824
But there's no accident that today is the day that we agreed to podcast.
390
00:30:26,464 --> 00:30:31,104
The question I guess I'd want to ask is, when we look at the city and we look at everything that's
391
00:30:31,824 --> 00:30:35,584
in front of us locally here in New York, nationally.
392
00:30:35,864 --> 00:30:39,104
What do you think about leadership?
393
00:30:39,104 --> 00:30:46,824
What do you think New York needs today in terms of its leader, its next mayoral leader?
394
00:30:46,824 --> 00:30:49,104
I'm looking forward.
395
00:30:49,984 --> 00:30:50,784
I'm hopeful.
396
00:30:50,784 --> 00:30:57,744
I'm actually really excited about the prospects of something new, new ideas.
397
00:30:58,544 --> 00:31:01,264
We're living in a very intense time.
398
00:31:01,824 --> 00:31:07,825
And I'm really excited that there's a lot of young people getting involved in politics, that are running.
399
00:31:09,345 --> 00:31:13,229
I'm really excited, even though the numbers are still crawling,
400
00:31:13,229 --> 00:31:16,465
but we're getting more young people engaged, which is really exciting.
401
00:31:18,145 --> 00:31:24,705
I've been less interested in politics in my adult life than I am in just democracy in general.
402
00:31:25,505 --> 00:31:29,825
And this idea of coming together and making a decision
403
00:31:30,145 --> 00:31:35,699
as a society about someone that we want to represent us I mean it's like come on
404
00:31:35,699 --> 00:31:40,537
like this is what Hamilton was fighting for! You know, like literally, don't throw away your shot.
405
00:31:40,537 --> 00:31:45,087
So you know for the podcast anyone who's listening and watching, like please
406
00:31:45,087 --> 00:31:52,482
like go check your registration go out get go out there vote you know doing research on candidates
407
00:31:52,482 --> 00:31:56,595
takes a cup of coffee and sitting down at your table and going on the computer and
408
00:31:56,595 --> 00:31:59,906
just looking up some facts you know, like it seems daunting
409
00:32:00,306 --> 00:32:04,175
It can seem like there's a lot of information out there,
410
00:32:04,175 --> 00:32:07,648
but it is one of the great things about this country
411
00:32:07,648 --> 00:32:10,306
that we have the power to make a decision like that.
412
00:32:11,186 --> 00:32:12,946
So don't waste it.
413
00:32:14,066 --> 00:32:17,546
I want to encourage, especially young people, like go out and do it.
414
00:32:17,546 --> 00:32:18,079
It's great.
415
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:18,706
It's fun.
416
00:32:18,706 --> 00:32:20,146
You know, we can make a whole thing of it.
417
00:32:20,666 --> 00:32:24,908
And I also think this meeting, not only on election day,
418
00:32:24,908 --> 00:32:27,466
but I'm actually going to go see Hamilton tonight.
419
00:32:27,786 --> 00:32:28,466
Are you really?
420
00:32:28,466 --> 00:32:30,146
I am because Leslie Odom Jr.
421
00:32:30,146 --> 00:32:30,946
is back in the show.
422
00:32:31,586 --> 00:32:35,066
So I think this whole day has been very fortuitive.
423
00:32:35,266 --> 00:32:37,306
So do you watch it from the front or do you get to?
424
00:32:37,306 --> 00:32:38,986
I don't know where I'm sitting.
425
00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:40,466
Where you get to be.
426
00:32:40,466 --> 00:32:45,066
I don't know where I'll be, but I don't want to, I definitely don't want to scare Leslie.
427
00:32:45,066 --> 00:32:47,826
I don't want to show up and then have him be super surprised.
428
00:32:49,346 --> 00:32:53,787
Have you, would you, would you consider going, returning to the cast?
429
00:32:53,827 --> 00:32:58,507
Since Leslie's gone back, I've definitely done that thought experiment for myself.
430
00:32:59,187 --> 00:33:00,027
There is a thing called
431
00:33:00,107 --> 00:33:04,292
the "actor's nightmare," where you have a dream that you're in a show that you once did,
432
00:33:04,292 --> 00:33:09,427
and they say, "go!" And in my version of this dream, I don't have the same costume.
433
00:33:10,147 --> 00:33:11,747
The stage is completely different.
434
00:33:12,147 --> 00:33:14,947
But they're saying, "you're doing Hamilton in 5 minutes, go."
435
00:33:15,507 --> 00:33:16,987
And I don't know any of the choreography.
436
00:33:17,747 --> 00:33:18,987
So I was curious about that.
437
00:33:18,987 --> 00:33:22,187
Like how much do you retain of that?
438
00:33:22,187 --> 00:33:25,427
Like how much do you actually retain or does it in time
439
00:33:26,067 --> 00:33:27,187
I know this is like.
440
00:33:27,187 --> 00:33:31,987
No, I'm really gonna, I'm gonna really like show, I'm gonna be really vulnerable in this moment.
441
00:33:32,107 --> 00:33:34,387
Okay.
I don't think I really remember any of it.
442
00:33:34,547 --> 00:33:36,867
I mean, I do, I remember, I don't, I remember a lot of it.
443
00:33:36,867 --> 00:33:43,107
Most of the stuff that's not mine because I was sitting backstage or sitting on stage listening to it.
444
00:33:43,587 --> 00:33:46,988
So I actually remember everybody else's parts very,
445
00:33:46,988 --> 00:33:48,268
much better than my own.
446
00:33:49,028 --> 00:33:49,528
Yeah.
447
00:33:50,348 --> 00:33:53,428
And I could absolutely see that, you would have to
448
00:33:53,908 --> 00:33:58,148
in some ways, kind of like push it to the back of your brain in order to make space.
449
00:33:58,628 --> 00:34:01,628
Yeah, yes, A little bit more space for other things.
450
00:34:01,628 --> 00:34:02,708
Absolutely could see that.
451
00:34:02,788 --> 00:34:03,108
Yeah.
452
00:34:03,108 --> 00:34:09,362
But I've thought about it and gosh, like it would be so beautiful to,
453
00:34:09,362 --> 00:34:15,457
and what a rare thing to get to do even to go back and do a show 10 plus years later
454
00:34:15,457 --> 00:34:16,308
and revisit a role.
455
00:34:16,788 --> 00:34:19,507
I mean, that's just like, nobody gets to do that.
456
00:34:19,507 --> 00:34:20,947
I mean, how many shows last that long?
457
00:34:21,068 --> 00:34:21,467
That long.
458
00:34:21,467 --> 00:34:22,228
I was thinking that.
459
00:34:22,228 --> 00:34:22,947
So, yeah.
460
00:34:23,987 --> 00:34:24,708
It would be amazing.
461
00:34:25,268 --> 00:34:26,708
One last thing, your book.
462
00:34:27,027 --> 00:34:27,428
Yeah.
463
00:34:27,428 --> 00:34:28,868
Talk to us about it.
464
00:34:28,868 --> 00:34:31,388
I wrote a children's book called Piper Chen Sings.
465
00:34:32,628 --> 00:34:37,027
I co-wrote it with Maris Pasquale Doran, who is also my sister-in-law.
466
00:34:37,908 --> 00:34:45,909
And we wrote it actually, we started writing it before the pandemic, wrote it mostly over FaceTime.
467
00:34:46,789 --> 00:34:48,069
And then we
468
00:34:48,509 --> 00:34:53,789
Got it published in 2024, April 2024, and we were a New York Times bestseller.
469
00:34:53,789 --> 00:34:54,708
We were so proud of it.
470
00:34:55,789 --> 00:35:01,029
But it's been so amazing since the seed of this tiny idea.
471
00:35:02,149 --> 00:35:07,185
We really just wanted to offer something to young people at a time that seemed very confusing,
472
00:35:07,185 --> 00:35:08,949
even for us as adults.
473
00:35:09,509 --> 00:35:14,064
And what we came up with was a beautiful story about a little girl
474
00:35:14,064 --> 00:35:17,749
who learns to overcome her nervous emotions.
475
00:35:18,309 --> 00:35:20,869
And it's a multi-generational story.
476
00:35:20,869 --> 00:35:23,429
It's a multicultural story.
477
00:35:23,429 --> 00:35:25,429
I love her name, Piper Chen.
478
00:35:25,509 --> 00:35:27,389
Piper, yeah, she's so sweet.
479
00:35:27,389 --> 00:35:28,989
It's a story that teaches language.
480
00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:35,630
It's a story that uplifts the arts, but ultimately it's a story about how to navigate very tricky feelings.
481
00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:41,990
And I really, you know, a testament to my wonderful co-author Maris.
482
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:42,490
She's
483
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:47,684
She's a psychotherapist and she works with adults, but in her practice
484
00:35:47,684 --> 00:35:54,265
talks a lot about self-awareness and the tools that one might use to be able to engage
485
00:35:54,265 --> 00:35:58,870
with your own emotions and be aware and have agency in how you move through life.
486
00:35:59,430 --> 00:36:06,310
And it's been really powerful to see the community response, and Spotty the dog is a huge hit.
487
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:07,350
We love that.
488
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:09,590
But ultimately,
489
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:14,939
I've just enjoyed seeing my friends text me and they're like,
490
00:36:14,939 --> 00:36:18,094
"oh, I'm reading Piper Chen with my kid" and they'll send me a picture.
491
00:36:18,094 --> 00:36:20,590
And it's just, it's the sweetest feeling.
492
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:21,910
Nothing beats it.
493
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:26,546
There's something about when you were talking about yourself as a child,
494
00:36:26,546 --> 00:36:34,233
when your friend was making, was figuring out how to lay out the set,
495
00:36:34,233 --> 00:36:37,531
to your story and you're wanting to really understand what's the story, what are we saying,
496
00:36:37,531 --> 00:36:38,151
what are we telling?
497
00:36:38,311 --> 00:36:39,671
There's something that feels
498
00:36:40,551 --> 00:36:45,673
connected between that, you as this young child, and you as an adult
499
00:36:45,673 --> 00:36:50,471
doing that same exercise with your sister-in-law in writing the book.
500
00:36:50,631 --> 00:36:52,151
Definitely, yeah.
501
00:36:52,231 --> 00:36:59,391
A lot of our conversations were about, you know, my childhood specifically because this little girl,
502
00:36:59,391 --> 00:37:04,631
it's like a, she's sort of like a mini me, or like an avatar version of me.
503
00:37:04,871 --> 00:37:07,351
Not really me, but an extension of me.
504
00:37:07,751 --> 00:37:08,251
And
505
00:37:08,871 --> 00:37:12,854
we got to talk about a lot of childhood stories and growing up and
506
00:37:12,854 --> 00:37:17,511
our perception of the world versus what was really going on.
507
00:37:18,311 --> 00:37:23,316
And how there's something really beautiful actually about that miscommunication between
508
00:37:23,316 --> 00:37:29,112
kids and adults that they're really experiencing something so fully and so intensely.
509
00:37:29,352 --> 00:37:32,552
And as adults, we sort of look at them like, "what is going on?"
510
00:37:33,672 --> 00:37:37,672
But that powerful moment when a kid
511
00:37:38,072 --> 00:37:42,852
can sort of switch from their own volition, like make that switch
512
00:37:42,852 --> 00:37:44,592
and just really figure something out.
513
00:37:45,032 --> 00:37:47,272
It's such a beautiful thing to witness.
514
00:37:47,672 --> 00:37:52,552
And I feel like, if I'm ever like, "oh gosh, like how do I, how would I make it through?"
515
00:37:52,552 --> 00:37:54,312
Like I just, "oh, what would I tell my younger self?"
516
00:37:54,952 --> 00:37:56,792
What would I tell my younger self in this moment?
517
00:37:57,272 --> 00:37:59,512
How would she be looking at the world?
518
00:38:00,152 --> 00:38:04,632
What actually do I have that benefits me now that she didn't have at that moment, you know?
519
00:38:05,152 --> 00:38:06,712
Yeah, wisdom that comes with... age.
520
00:38:10,152 --> 00:38:10,992
I said that real low.
"Age..."
521
00:38:13,472 --> 00:38:18,153
Philippa, I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
522
00:38:18,633 --> 00:38:24,073
So Graham is celebrating, we're celebrating our 220th anniversary.
523
00:38:24,473 --> 00:38:27,833
The nation is celebrating 250 years.
524
00:38:28,713 --> 00:38:33,153
And there's no, you know, it's just, I think so aligned, so aligned.
525
00:38:33,433 --> 00:38:34,553
You're Graham Fam.
526
00:38:35,273 --> 00:38:39,113
So I hope that there's some opportunity for you to celebrate with us.
527
00:38:39,113 --> 00:38:40,193
I would love to.
528
00:38:40,473 --> 00:38:41,153
I would love to.
529
00:38:41,233 --> 00:38:42,153
I'm glad you said that.
530
00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:43,073
Thank you.
531
00:38:43,193 --> 00:38:44,353
I could think of a few ways.
532
00:38:44,393 --> 00:38:44,893
Great.
533
00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:47,793
Thank you so much for coming.
534
00:38:47,793 --> 00:38:48,293
Thank you.
535
00:38:49,433 --> 00:38:51,553
I appreciate you.
536
00:38:51,553 --> 00:38:52,053
Thanks, guys.
537
00:38:52,953 --> 00:38:58,473
For 220 years, Graham has supported children and families and communities in New York City.
538
00:38:59,113 --> 00:39:03,433
We need your help as we continue that vision and that mission.
539
00:39:04,153 --> 00:39:05,113
Join our movement.
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:12,011
Philippa Soo is a Tony and Emmy-nominated and Grammy award-winning actress and singer.
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She is most well known for originating the role of Eliza Hamilton in the Broadway musical, Hamilton.
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Her many Broadway credits also include Amelie, Into the Woods, and The Parisian Woman.
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00:00:25,106 --> 00:00:33,030
Philippa is a co-author of the children's book Piper Chen Sings, a New York Times bestseller.
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Philippa co-founded the Eliza Project in 2015 to give youth at Graham the opportunity to use the arts for expression.
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And I want to, again, thank you, thank you, thank you for joining me today.
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Thank you, Ms. Watson. Thank you for that introduction. I really wish I had an intro for you.
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We could introduce each other to each other.
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So it feels like I'm talking to family. So when I'm talking to family, you know, I'm very plain talking.
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Yes, please, please, let's go. And I feel like you're family because in a sense you are.
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in the last 10 years since the, actually, maybe the following year after Hamilton opened,
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the connection between Graham as the orphanage, you can say the classic line.
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Yeah.
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and the revelation that that orphanage still exists, the work that Eliza was so proud of.
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And we're here today, we'll be celebrating 220 years. Amazing. It is. 220 years.
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We as an organization have lived through just about every event in American history.
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And, which is not only a source of pride for me, particularly as a leader and I think us as an organization, but also a source of strength.
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Source of strength. So you're "Graham Fam." That's what we, that's how we refer.
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I love it. And I'm gonna immediately start crying already.
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You talking about 220 years and the connection, it's all got me, it's like got me right back in that head space all over again.
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It's incredible, incredible. And so Graham starts out as an,
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starts out as what we would call today a group home.
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People don't realize that, don't know that it didn't start out as an orphanage,
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but because the need was so great, the need to be able to support children and families even then
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when folks didn't quite know what to call it because what was created didn't really exist in other places.
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Graham is the oldest non-sectarian child caring organization.
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And it took me a while to really understand what that meant, where in most countries,
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even here in the United States, orphanages were run by churches or religious organizations.
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Graham was the first non-religious organization to be able to provide support and care for children,
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regardless of their backgrounds, religion, economic status, et cetera.
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So I'm pretty proud, always pretty proud about that. Yes. And so that's the Graham legacy.
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And we continue over these 220 years to evolve to be what communities need. But we'll talk a little bit more about that.
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Hamilton! So I have a whole list of questions, but let's start there. Talk about how you
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00:03:31,554 --> 00:03:36,821
came into your work, into performance, the performing arts,
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and talk a little bit about that trajectory, how you got started.
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So it all started in a little hospital in Libertyville, Illinois, where I was born.
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I won't go back that far, but speaking of young people, I think, really this all started when I was young.
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And I often start, when I talk about my journey as an artist,
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and the full circle and where I'm always trying to come back to, it's that young person
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who has curiosity, who has drive to an extent, but more just an excitement about the unknown,
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and a willingness to dive into things and learn and grow and fall
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for the sake of maybe finding something greater. And when I was a kid, I was extremely imaginative
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I was playing, with my stuffed animals and my dolls in my room.
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And I have this very good friend that I grew up with and she and I would play dolls.
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And she would always be spending hours setting up the house.
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And trying to get, getting the curtains just right and their pillows on their bed.
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And I would just be sitting there like, okay, who's their dad and who's their mom
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and where are they going? And what's the story? What's the story? Like, what's the action?
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And I ended up becoming an actor and she ended up becoming an interior designer. Wow.
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So I just think it's a testament to an example of fostering creativity in young people.
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It's so important because it actually could end up being what they do for a living.
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And God knows that thinking creatively, whether you're in the arts or not,
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is such an asset to the world that we live in.
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Every great idea started, every great invention started out as an idea,
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started out as someone being curious and creative about something.
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So that's really where my journey to Hamilton started.
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And then, you know, got into the theater in school and did choir and
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I did this wonderful thing called the Illinois All-State Theater Festival
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where I got to meet kids from all over the state and put on a show with them and then practice,
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go to play practice and rehearse and do that for one weekend every month
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starting in about September until January. And then we put the show up on its feet.
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And this is with a group of strangers really. And we all just had this passion for doing theater
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and we would rehearse our little butts off.
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And then we would get to Illinois All-State Theater Festival,
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which was either at Illinois State University or University of Illinois.
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They would alternate year to year. And we'd put up the show in like a week.
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And like, when I looked back, I'm like, wow, that was really amazing that these high schoolers
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were so driven to make something and get something out there and put something on its feet
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and we all said yes. And it was kind of incredible.
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Two things. One, I didn't know you were a Midwesterner. Yeah.
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So that's, so, we have a little bit of a shared experience.
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Are you a Midwesterner? I went to high school in Minnesota.
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So yeah, I did my teen years there.
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And so that's one thing. And then you, so I always thought you were from New York.
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So that's a big surprise. Yeah, I'm kind of blown away by that.
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So making, I think two things are really interesting. The career choice or the choice to move forward
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in the performing arts. But then coming from the Midwest to New York
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and then being on Broadway, what was that like?
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Well, unexpected entirely. I, growing up outside of Chicago, I saw a lot of theater in Chicago
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and through, you know, friends and my mom, she worked in the theater a little bit.
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So I had an understanding through actors that were working in Chicago that like it was a way to
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make a living and a thing that you could do with your life that didn't necessarily involve
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becoming a famous quote unquote famous actor.
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which was really intriguing to me because I was already kind of like I was a very shy kid growing up,
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like I wasn't shy. I was scared to perform in front of people,
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though in my life I was like, "AAH!" like super free. But when it came to performing,
87
00:08:05,472 --> 00:08:11,252
I got super nervous. And so this idea of like living and working and being an actor,
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but not necessarily having to be on the spot and, put yourself out there in a really public way
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felt really intriguing to me. And I wanted to study acting.
90
00:08:21,983 --> 00:08:24,820
So I got into theater school, which brought me to New York.
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And I graduated and auditioned like crazy and booked a job called,
92
00:08:33,061 --> 00:08:39,387
a show called Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812. And that was my first professional job.
93
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And that was where Lin-Manuel Miranda, and Tommy Kale saw me perform for the first time.
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00:08:46,165 --> 00:08:50,133
And they invited me to come join them for some readings of Hamilton
95
00:08:50,133 --> 00:08:56,414
and that's kind of the rest is history. Yeah. And what are they saying back in Illinois about that?
96
00:08:56,414 --> 00:09:01,368
They're very excited. They're so proud. I love it. It's great. Yeah.
97
00:09:01,368 --> 00:09:06,742
So I have a confession, a confession around Hamilton. I don't know if it's safe.
98
00:09:06,742 --> 00:09:10,962
Should I do it or not, but I'm going to do it. Well, you can edit it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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00:09:10,962 --> 00:09:15,579
No, actually it's good. Well, it involves someone who's not in the room.
100
00:09:15,579 --> 00:09:19,701
And so we have kind of like this code about "nothing about me without me,"
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00:09:19,701 --> 00:09:20,520
but I'll do it anyway.
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Sure. So Graham was gifted with tickets to be able to go see Hamilton when it opened.
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00:09:28,417 --> 00:09:34,797
And I think it was the year that we honored, was it Ron Chernow that we, I can't remember if
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00:09:34,797 --> 00:09:39,778
it was all in the same year. So we had gotten the gift of the tickets.
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00:09:39,778 --> 00:09:46,569
We'd gotten the Chernow book about Alexander Hamilton. And I remember talking to
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00:09:46,569 --> 00:09:49,321
one of our colleagues who's not in the room. I don't know if it's fair
107
00:09:49,641 --> 00:09:58,476
to call Sharmeela's name, but I'm going to do it, who asked me if I was going to go to see Hamilton.
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Was I going to use my ticket or was I going? And I knew nothing about the production
109
00:10:03,867 --> 00:10:09,058
other than it was about Alexander Hamilton. And so I'm sitting there with this big, thick book.
110
00:10:09,058 --> 00:10:18,336
And I said, "Two hours of Alexander Hamilton? No, no thank you. You can take my ticket."
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00:10:18,336 --> 00:10:24,579
So she says, she does ask me again, "Kym, are you sure? Are you sure? And I was like, "Yeah,
112
00:10:24,579 --> 00:10:29,845
I think I'm fairly sure." Fast forward, everyone comes back. They talk about how great it was,
113
00:10:29,845 --> 00:10:34,653
how wonderful it is. And this was not like I wasn't YouTubing at the time.
114
00:10:34,653 --> 00:10:42,202
So like, to go and see what it was about. But somehow I think my son was singing like
115
00:10:42,602 --> 00:10:48,117
parts of the soundtrack. Just like, listening to parts. And I was like, "Man, that's pretty cool.
116
00:10:48,117 --> 00:10:54,727
What are you listening to?" "Oh, this is Hamilton." And I stopped in my tracks. I said, "what?"
117
00:10:54,727 --> 00:10:58,849
And so I said, "play that back." And it's, "Wrote My Way Out." Oh!
118
00:10:58,849 --> 00:11:01,624
Like the first time I heard that song, I cried.
119
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I seriously, like, I was like, "Jalil, play that again."
120
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And I was like, that's my story.
121
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Like, I wrote literally like wrote my way out, went to school to get out of the poverty that I,
122
00:11:13,796 --> 00:11:16,043
you know, knew and grew up in.
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This is my story.
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And I, and that's, you know, I listened to that and began, and I was like, wait a minute,
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This was Hamilton.
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I was like, irate after I found out.
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But Sharmeela absolutely, I think, knew, "I don't think she knows what this is, that this is not good."
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"Oh, you don't want your ticket? Okay..."
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Yeah, right, exactly.
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"You sure can."
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"Aw, that's too bad."
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So we have a laugh about that now.
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Oh, you have, you've seen it.
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Yes, I have.
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Thank God.
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Love.
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Listen, the soundtrack is like my children.
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I have grands, my grands.
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I mean, we all absolutely
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Love it.
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And again, not just taking history and refashioning history, it's not that.
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It really is, I think for me anyway, like being almost in the position of understanding who this man was
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as an individual, the challenges that he had,
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personally and then what was happening nationally, like what was happening in our nation,
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that there's so much that I know I could identify with, and that I think many of us could identify with.
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So talk about identification with being Eliza.
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Oh gosh, it was a very emotional and powerful journey getting to know her as a person because
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really there wasn't a lot available.
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I had to do some digging.
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And I also think even more important than the facts, my job is to understand what makes
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a person do what they need to do in their lives.
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And I was so struck by her fortitude, her love, her capacity for loving so
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many people and loving Alexander Hamilton so much that she needed to do this for him after he passed.
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It was really inspiring just for me as a person, as a young adult.
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I certainly, it was the first time that I really understood my identity as an American citizen
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and what it looks like to participate in democracy.
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And also as an artist, what does it look like to tell a story where
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the agenda is not to answer questions, but to ask them?
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And especially for Eliza, I felt this responsibility, especially because there's a physical
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manifestation of her love and her work, Graham Windham.
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It became even more palpable, this desire to really
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do her story justice.
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And at first it was very daunting.
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But then I sort of released into just the beauty and the compassion that she had for humanity.
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And that was my story.
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That was my journey on stage was my love for him, my love for my sisters,
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the power of sisterhood. I mean,
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It just had so much to unearth that being in a show for a year,
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I still feel like there's things that I can go back and dig out and look into.
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And it's just, I think, a testament to how wonderful the writing is and how wonderful their legacy
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and their story is.
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I don't know if it's fair to you, but to think about being the Eliza that folks will know going forward.
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say for the next generation or so, that you're Eliza, there are not lots and lots of pictures of her.
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There are some that have become like, this is Eliza, right?
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But there's not lots and lots of pictures.
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By her own volition, there's not a lot of letters and, you know,
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things that chronicle who she was.
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She took herself out of the narrative.
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And when we think about the role of women in that time
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and how diminished the women were, that Eliza and the women who founded Graham,
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of which we're so proud, were really, you know, they were really way ahead of their time and really
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began, I think, to lay down the footprints, I think, that other women leaders would
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walk in, the path that they would walk in.
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And so for you to be almost kind of like the embodiment of those characteristics and
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the virtues that Eliza, you know, demonstrated, I think, is so powerful.
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And what do you think about that, in terms of you being the person who kind of makes sure that
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that legacy continues in your personification of her role?
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Oh my gosh, it's an honor, truly.
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I think to be able to say that I get to tell stories for a living is already such an honor and a privilege.
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I wouldn't
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change it for the world with all of its ups and downs and crazy things that happened
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as being an actor, but I think the responsibility of stepping into someone's shoes,
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let alone someone who actually was a living, breathing person in the world,
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it's, I mean, I don't even know how else to describe it other than the greatest honor of an artist's life
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to be able to do that and to be able to
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share with other people a small way into a way a person thinks.
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Not just what did they do?
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What are the facts?
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Who did they marry?
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Who are their children?
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You know, but to really look into a person's soul and find it somewhere between all of the facts,
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the person that was behind all of the things that you read about them.
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And what kind of a person dedicates their life's work to serving others?
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Where did they grow up?
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What kinds of things did they experience?
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And it's almost so simple, but I think the assignment was really to allow myself to be
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a vessel for the story as opposed to feeling like I needed to
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be the Eliza for everybody.
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I was like, I was really actually more interested in serving her story
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the way that she was serving other people in her lifetime.
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I really wanted to, and maybe that's, you can sort of see it in the performance,
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but I really thought that she was such a good listener.
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She struck me as being someone who's very observant, bubbly and loving, you know,
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especially as you see her grow from her youth to her older age, but
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someone that just has a very large capacity to take in so much, because she really did,
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and she was able to handle it for the rest of her life.
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So that was my only job, truly, was just to be there, make sure everything that I said was clear,
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say the words, and allow her journey to wash over me so that other people can
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also feel that journey.
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Phillipa, that is such, I think that is so right.
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And the listen, the quality of listening.
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I really, I've asked myself since I've been at Graham,
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how is it that some of the qualities we saw in the founding mothers
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continues to this day in the leadership and in the folks who commit to doing this work,
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those same qualities kind of have continued along a long time and then along the trajectory of time.
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And so listening is absolutely right that first of all, when we think about her beginnings
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and the family and the stock she came from, she did not have to take up
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this work.
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She did not have to do it.
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That's to start.
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Secondly, she was the mother of many children.
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And so one would think, well, she's got her hands filled full with her own kids and her own concerns.
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And we already know the financial situation that she was in after Alexander died, was killed.
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And she could have totally have been absorbed with her own condition.
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yet she was not.
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She had these other ventures that were so important for her to carry through.
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And so, when I think about the fact that she didn't have to, she didn't have to do this,
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but she chose to.
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And listening being, I think,
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we were talking earlier about superpowers, right?
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Love being a superpower, listening being her superpower.
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So today, Graham, we have this thing we call radical listening, which is a component.
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I love that.
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Isn't that wonderful?
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What is radical listening?
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And we say radical listening leads to radical change.
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And it really is about
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Not listening.
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So when folks listen, they listen so they can, all right, come on, let's get to the heart of what it is
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that I got to do, what I got to hear, what I have to respond to.
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Radical listening is different from that.
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Radical listening really involves being in the dialogue,
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trying to come to an understanding of what it is that you're concerned about, not what I want to do,
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how I want to resolve this, and just move on to the next thing.
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And then in doing that, finding the solution in
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what it is you're saying.
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Like many times we have the answer, but sometimes it takes the culling to
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pull it out, to pull it forward.
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And that the change, that the change or the solution we're trying to get to
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really comes because we've listened, because we've really.
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really are listening to understand.
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We're asking the questions that make it, that pull out what it is that
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the information that we need to know so that
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to get to the next step to provide the helpful help, something that we also have coined,
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that it's coming directly from what we've learned because we've engaged in this process of
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communication that is not just trying to get to the end of what it is you're saying.
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And so many times, it's really about that, right?
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It's not active listening.
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It's not really reflective.
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But I just want to hear what you're getting to so either I can respond or I can move along my way.
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Radical listening is not that.
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Radical listening to me feels like a choice
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to put yourself in a vulnerable position of, which is I think great.
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I think vulnerability is like, it's literally everything I do is about seeking places
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where you can find vulnerability because that's where I think great acting happens.
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But speaking to radical listening and choosing to
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put yourself in a vulnerable position where you might say, I don't know, or I can't do this by myself.
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I actually need to put my energy towards something else and receive something
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in order to move forward and do something for myself. But this idea of self-care is
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holistic, that it's not just about yourself, it's about the whole world.
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world, right.
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And the more that we can see ourselves as a part of a whole,
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yes, we are a single organism in all of this, but we are a part of a whole,
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we'll immediately open up ourselves to all sorts of wonderful things that could change our lives.
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That's right.
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That's right.
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And I love that.
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Did we write that down?
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We're going to make sure.
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It's recorded.
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Here and now.
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That's right.
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That is excellent.
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That is excellent.
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And yes, you're right, that it opens the receiver up and the giver of that information.
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It's absolutely right to do the two way.
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But also I love that it's radical in the sense that it might not be perfect.
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Right.
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Like you're going out on a limb.
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It might actually fall on its face.
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It might be very messy, this exchange.
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but it's there.
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Like there's an energy that's percolating between you and another person or you in a group
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or a group in a group.
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And that is something.
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That's like the power of what humans can do.
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That's exactly right.
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And how it is when we look over the years of what Graham has,
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the innovation that Graham has been a part of creating along with,
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because there's nothing that Graham does alone.
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We do it in partnership with the families, in partnership with kids. When we think about
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what that process has looked like, it is just what you described.
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It's not linear.
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It's not clean.
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Often, we've got to go backtrack to make sure that we heard it, got it right,
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and that we're not running ahead. We call it running ahead to solution,
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like trying, oh, so that's what it is?
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No, no, no, no.
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Back up.
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There's more to this.
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So the work that we're doing, for example, we're doing this work that we've called "Reckoning"
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work, which is addressing the harms of the child welfare system.
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And for many folks, this is
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radical to look at it and talk about it that way when I think most folks would think, well,
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child services or working with children and families should always be helpful
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and why should anyone be harmed?
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But the truth of the matter is that it's not always helpful.
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But in the Reckoning work we're doing, listening and talking to
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to youth, to parents, to community partners, to our staff who do this work is to, number one,
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put away the assumptions, put away the defenses and get and really listen to and hear what
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what the reality of our involvement with those families is.
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I love what you guys do.
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I've always loved what you guys do.
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And it's a great reminder, just in my own life,
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I shouldn't be surprised if I ever feel like it shouldn't be messy.
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Because I think the world also is telling us
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that we're meant to get things right away, that if you buy this, then therefore you'll feel that.
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Like it's all a part of this very- Telling us how to feel.
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Commercial, capitalist, like strategized plan on how to be a good human.
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And I just love that there's a level of catering to
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all the multifaceted ways that we present and show ourselves in the world as people
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that we're not always linear.
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Yeah, that's right.
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Yeah.
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So there's two things I want to talk about before we end today.
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Eliza Project.
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Talk about the creation of the Eliza Project and what that meant for you and that work.
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It was so magical.
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at a time where it felt like the world was going so fast,
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I felt like I looked forward to those sessions, you know, every time.
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I think it was like a handful of times that we met with the students and Morgan Marcell,
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my castmate, she and I created the Eliza Project.
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And it really just came from figuring out that Graham Windham was a real place
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and that I could go there and it was still, I mean, I was like, what? This is crazy.
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And
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being so moved by my experience there and meeting the staff and meeting the students
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and the faculty, I just thought like, what an opportunity to connect.
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I had done some work, teaching in college and my summer job growing up was teaching kids theater.
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So like I, yeah, so I was
360
00:28:28,382 --> 00:28:34,238
really excited to maybe get a chance to connect and with such gratitude towards Graham Windham
361
00:28:34,238 --> 00:28:39,111
and making it happen for us. We got to spend some sessions working with the kids
362
00:28:39,111 --> 00:28:43,182
and young adults, I should say. I mean, they were just so awesome and so creative.
363
00:28:43,182 --> 00:28:48,169
And some of the cast came and we got to play some theater games, do some exercises,
364
00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:53,022
theater exercises, make some music, have some laughs, do some improv.
365
00:28:53,582 --> 00:28:54,142
And
366
00:28:55,502 --> 00:29:04,037
I think that joy was had by all and I like to think that somewhere, wherever Eliza is in this moment,
367
00:29:04,037 --> 00:29:08,428
her soul, her spirit, there's a level of acknowledgement that
368
00:29:08,428 --> 00:29:10,302
this couldn't have happened without her.
369
00:29:10,622 --> 00:29:11,662
Eliza Project.
370
00:29:13,382 --> 00:29:16,143
Talk about the creation of the Eliza Project.
371
00:29:16,143 --> 00:29:18,063
We wouldn't otherwise have.
372
00:29:18,263 --> 00:29:20,943
Like that's kind of why I became an artist.
373
00:29:20,943 --> 00:29:26,543
Like the chance to meet new people and see new faces and connect and get to know people.
374
00:29:26,543 --> 00:29:30,103
I think that's really powerful and I'm really, really grateful that we got to do it.
375
00:29:31,263 --> 00:29:34,463
Yeah.
And again, how, again, your legacy, right?
376
00:29:34,463 --> 00:29:38,738
That there are gonna be youth who are gonna remember those moments
377
00:29:38,738 --> 00:29:41,303
and those opportunities with you,
378
00:29:42,143 --> 00:29:43,943
and the work that you all did there.
379
00:29:44,623 --> 00:29:49,303
And how much that will influence some of the ways in which they show up.
380
00:29:49,743 --> 00:29:51,503
I hope, yeah, I hope.
381
00:29:51,503 --> 00:29:58,436
I mean, it was brief, but I think that there's something to be said about taking a step away
382
00:29:58,436 --> 00:30:04,728
from your sort of normal schedule and taking time to really engage with a young person.
383
00:30:04,728 --> 00:30:05,228
I think it's awesome.
384
00:30:05,263 --> 00:30:08,143
So today is election day.
385
00:30:09,984 --> 00:30:10,704
I voted today.
386
00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:13,664
I'm so happy.
387
00:30:13,984 --> 00:30:16,584
And I'm not going to ask you who you voted for.
388
00:30:16,584 --> 00:30:17,664
I'm not going to do that.
389
00:30:17,984 --> 00:30:25,824
But there's no accident that today is the day that we agreed to podcast.
390
00:30:26,464 --> 00:30:31,104
The question I guess I'd want to ask is, when we look at the city and we look at everything that's
391
00:30:31,824 --> 00:30:35,584
in front of us locally here in New York, nationally.
392
00:30:35,864 --> 00:30:39,104
What do you think about leadership?
393
00:30:39,104 --> 00:30:46,824
What do you think New York needs today in terms of its leader, its next mayoral leader?
394
00:30:46,824 --> 00:30:49,104
I'm looking forward.
395
00:30:49,984 --> 00:30:50,784
I'm hopeful.
396
00:30:50,784 --> 00:30:57,744
I'm actually really excited about the prospects of something new, new ideas.
397
00:30:58,544 --> 00:31:01,264
We're living in a very intense time.
398
00:31:01,824 --> 00:31:07,825
And I'm really excited that there's a lot of young people getting involved in politics, that are running.
399
00:31:09,345 --> 00:31:13,229
I'm really excited, even though the numbers are still crawling,
400
00:31:13,229 --> 00:31:16,465
but we're getting more young people engaged, which is really exciting.
401
00:31:18,145 --> 00:31:24,705
I've been less interested in politics in my adult life than I am in just democracy in general.
402
00:31:25,505 --> 00:31:29,825
And this idea of coming together and making a decision
403
00:31:30,145 --> 00:31:35,699
as a society about someone that we want to represent us I mean it's like come on
404
00:31:35,699 --> 00:31:40,537
like this is what Hamilton was fighting for! You know, like literally, don't throw away your shot.
405
00:31:40,537 --> 00:31:45,087
So you know for the podcast anyone who's listening and watching, like please
406
00:31:45,087 --> 00:31:52,482
like go check your registration go out get go out there vote you know doing research on candidates
407
00:31:52,482 --> 00:31:56,595
takes a cup of coffee and sitting down at your table and going on the computer and
408
00:31:56,595 --> 00:31:59,906
just looking up some facts you know, like it seems daunting
409
00:32:00,306 --> 00:32:04,175
It can seem like there's a lot of information out there,
410
00:32:04,175 --> 00:32:07,648
but it is one of the great things about this country
411
00:32:07,648 --> 00:32:10,306
that we have the power to make a decision like that.
412
00:32:11,186 --> 00:32:12,946
So don't waste it.
413
00:32:14,066 --> 00:32:17,546
I want to encourage, especially young people, like go out and do it.
414
00:32:17,546 --> 00:32:18,079
It's great.
415
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:18,706
It's fun.
416
00:32:18,706 --> 00:32:20,146
You know, we can make a whole thing of it.
417
00:32:20,666 --> 00:32:24,908
And I also think this meeting, not only on election day,
418
00:32:24,908 --> 00:32:27,466
but I'm actually going to go see Hamilton tonight.
419
00:32:27,786 --> 00:32:28,466
Are you really?
420
00:32:28,466 --> 00:32:30,146
I am because Leslie Odom Jr.
421
00:32:30,146 --> 00:32:30,946
is back in the show.
422
00:32:31,586 --> 00:32:35,066
So I think this whole day has been very fortuitive.
423
00:32:35,266 --> 00:32:37,306
So do you watch it from the front or do you get to?
424
00:32:37,306 --> 00:32:38,986
I don't know where I'm sitting.
425
00:32:39,586 --> 00:32:40,466
Where you get to be.
426
00:32:40,466 --> 00:32:45,066
I don't know where I'll be, but I don't want to, I definitely don't want to scare Leslie.
427
00:32:45,066 --> 00:32:47,826
I don't want to show up and then have him be super surprised.
428
00:32:49,346 --> 00:32:53,787
Have you, would you, would you consider going, returning to the cast?
429
00:32:53,827 --> 00:32:58,507
Since Leslie's gone back, I've definitely done that thought experiment for myself.
430
00:32:59,187 --> 00:33:00,027
There is a thing called
431
00:33:00,107 --> 00:33:04,292
the "actor's nightmare," where you have a dream that you're in a show that you once did,
432
00:33:04,292 --> 00:33:09,427
and they say, "go!" And in my version of this dream, I don't have the same costume.
433
00:33:10,147 --> 00:33:11,747
The stage is completely different.
434
00:33:12,147 --> 00:33:14,947
But they're saying, "you're doing Hamilton in 5 minutes, go."
435
00:33:15,507 --> 00:33:16,987
And I don't know any of the choreography.
436
00:33:17,747 --> 00:33:18,987
So I was curious about that.
437
00:33:18,987 --> 00:33:22,187
Like how much do you retain of that?
438
00:33:22,187 --> 00:33:25,427
Like how much do you actually retain or does it in time
439
00:33:26,067 --> 00:33:27,187
I know this is like.
440
00:33:27,187 --> 00:33:31,987
No, I'm really gonna, I'm gonna really like show, I'm gonna be really vulnerable in this moment.
441
00:33:32,107 --> 00:33:34,387
Okay.
I don't think I really remember any of it.
442
00:33:34,547 --> 00:33:36,867
I mean, I do, I remember, I don't, I remember a lot of it.
443
00:33:36,867 --> 00:33:43,107
Most of the stuff that's not mine because I was sitting backstage or sitting on stage listening to it.
444
00:33:43,587 --> 00:33:46,988
So I actually remember everybody else's parts very,
445
00:33:46,988 --> 00:33:48,268
much better than my own.
446
00:33:49,028 --> 00:33:49,528
Yeah.
447
00:33:50,348 --> 00:33:53,428
And I could absolutely see that, you would have to
448
00:33:53,908 --> 00:33:58,148
in some ways, kind of like push it to the back of your brain in order to make space.
449
00:33:58,628 --> 00:34:01,628
Yeah, yes, A little bit more space for other things.
450
00:34:01,628 --> 00:34:02,708
Absolutely could see that.
451
00:34:02,788 --> 00:34:03,108
Yeah.
452
00:34:03,108 --> 00:34:09,362
But I've thought about it and gosh, like it would be so beautiful to,
453
00:34:09,362 --> 00:34:15,457
and what a rare thing to get to do even to go back and do a show 10 plus years later
454
00:34:15,457 --> 00:34:16,308
and revisit a role.
455
00:34:16,788 --> 00:34:19,507
I mean, that's just like, nobody gets to do that.
456
00:34:19,507 --> 00:34:20,947
I mean, how many shows last that long?
457
00:34:21,068 --> 00:34:21,467
That long.
458
00:34:21,467 --> 00:34:22,228
I was thinking that.
459
00:34:22,228 --> 00:34:22,947
So, yeah.
460
00:34:23,987 --> 00:34:24,708
It would be amazing.
461
00:34:25,268 --> 00:34:26,708
One last thing, your book.
462
00:34:27,027 --> 00:34:27,428
Yeah.
463
00:34:27,428 --> 00:34:28,868
Talk to us about it.
464
00:34:28,868 --> 00:34:31,388
I wrote a children's book called Piper Chen Sings.
465
00:34:32,628 --> 00:34:37,027
I co-wrote it with Maris Pasquale Doran, who is also my sister-in-law.
466
00:34:37,908 --> 00:34:45,909
And we wrote it actually, we started writing it before the pandemic, wrote it mostly over FaceTime.
467
00:34:46,789 --> 00:34:48,069
And then we
468
00:34:48,509 --> 00:34:53,789
Got it published in 2024, April 2024, and we were a New York Times bestseller.
469
00:34:53,789 --> 00:34:54,708
We were so proud of it.
470
00:34:55,789 --> 00:35:01,029
But it's been so amazing since the seed of this tiny idea.
471
00:35:02,149 --> 00:35:07,185
We really just wanted to offer something to young people at a time that seemed very confusing,
472
00:35:07,185 --> 00:35:08,949
even for us as adults.
473
00:35:09,509 --> 00:35:14,064
And what we came up with was a beautiful story about a little girl
474
00:35:14,064 --> 00:35:17,749
who learns to overcome her nervous emotions.
475
00:35:18,309 --> 00:35:20,869
And it's a multi-generational story.
476
00:35:20,869 --> 00:35:23,429
It's a multicultural story.
477
00:35:23,429 --> 00:35:25,429
I love her name, Piper Chen.
478
00:35:25,509 --> 00:35:27,389
Piper, yeah, she's so sweet.
479
00:35:27,389 --> 00:35:28,989
It's a story that teaches language.
480
00:35:28,989 --> 00:35:35,630
It's a story that uplifts the arts, but ultimately it's a story about how to navigate very tricky feelings.
481
00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:41,990
And I really, you know, a testament to my wonderful co-author Maris.
482
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:42,490
She's
483
00:35:43,510 --> 00:35:47,684
She's a psychotherapist and she works with adults, but in her practice
484
00:35:47,684 --> 00:35:54,265
talks a lot about self-awareness and the tools that one might use to be able to engage
485
00:35:54,265 --> 00:35:58,870
with your own emotions and be aware and have agency in how you move through life.
486
00:35:59,430 --> 00:36:06,310
And it's been really powerful to see the community response, and Spotty the dog is a huge hit.
487
00:36:06,630 --> 00:36:07,350
We love that.
488
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:09,590
But ultimately,
489
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:14,939
I've just enjoyed seeing my friends text me and they're like,
490
00:36:14,939 --> 00:36:18,094
"oh, I'm reading Piper Chen with my kid" and they'll send me a picture.
491
00:36:18,094 --> 00:36:20,590
And it's just, it's the sweetest feeling.
492
00:36:20,710 --> 00:36:21,910
Nothing beats it.
493
00:36:22,190 --> 00:36:26,546
There's something about when you were talking about yourself as a child,
494
00:36:26,546 --> 00:36:34,233
when your friend was making, was figuring out how to lay out the set,
495
00:36:34,233 --> 00:36:37,531
to your story and you're wanting to really understand what's the story, what are we saying,
496
00:36:37,531 --> 00:36:38,151
what are we telling?
497
00:36:38,311 --> 00:36:39,671
There's something that feels
498
00:36:40,551 --> 00:36:45,673
connected between that, you as this young child, and you as an adult
499
00:36:45,673 --> 00:36:50,471
doing that same exercise with your sister-in-law in writing the book.
500
00:36:50,631 --> 00:36:52,151
Definitely, yeah.
501
00:36:52,231 --> 00:36:59,391
A lot of our conversations were about, you know, my childhood specifically because this little girl,
502
00:36:59,391 --> 00:37:04,631
it's like a, she's sort of like a mini me, or like an avatar version of me.
503
00:37:04,871 --> 00:37:07,351
Not really me, but an extension of me.
504
00:37:07,751 --> 00:37:08,251
And
505
00:37:08,871 --> 00:37:12,854
we got to talk about a lot of childhood stories and growing up and
506
00:37:12,854 --> 00:37:17,511
our perception of the world versus what was really going on.
507
00:37:18,311 --> 00:37:23,316
And how there's something really beautiful actually about that miscommunication between
508
00:37:23,316 --> 00:37:29,112
kids and adults that they're really experiencing something so fully and so intensely.
509
00:37:29,352 --> 00:37:32,552
And as adults, we sort of look at them like, "what is going on?"
510
00:37:33,672 --> 00:37:37,672
But that powerful moment when a kid
511
00:37:38,072 --> 00:37:42,852
can sort of switch from their own volition, like make that switch
512
00:37:42,852 --> 00:37:44,592
and just really figure something out.
513
00:37:45,032 --> 00:37:47,272
It's such a beautiful thing to witness.
514
00:37:47,672 --> 00:37:52,552
And I feel like, if I'm ever like, "oh gosh, like how do I, how would I make it through?"
515
00:37:52,552 --> 00:37:54,312
Like I just, "oh, what would I tell my younger self?"
516
00:37:54,952 --> 00:37:56,792
What would I tell my younger self in this moment?
517
00:37:57,272 --> 00:37:59,512
How would she be looking at the world?
518
00:38:00,152 --> 00:38:04,632
What actually do I have that benefits me now that she didn't have at that moment, you know?
519
00:38:05,152 --> 00:38:06,712
Yeah, wisdom that comes with... age.
520
00:38:10,152 --> 00:38:10,992
I said that real low.
"Age..."
521
00:38:13,472 --> 00:38:18,153
Philippa, I want to thank you so much for joining me today.
522
00:38:18,633 --> 00:38:24,073
So Graham is celebrating, we're celebrating our 220th anniversary.
523
00:38:24,473 --> 00:38:27,833
The nation is celebrating 250 years.
524
00:38:28,713 --> 00:38:33,153
And there's no, you know, it's just, I think so aligned, so aligned.
525
00:38:33,433 --> 00:38:34,553
You're Graham Fam.
526
00:38:35,273 --> 00:38:39,113
So I hope that there's some opportunity for you to celebrate with us.
527
00:38:39,113 --> 00:38:40,193
I would love to.
528
00:38:40,473 --> 00:38:41,153
I would love to.
529
00:38:41,233 --> 00:38:42,153
I'm glad you said that.
530
00:38:42,153 --> 00:38:43,073
Thank you.
531
00:38:43,193 --> 00:38:44,353
I could think of a few ways.
532
00:38:44,393 --> 00:38:44,893
Great.
533
00:38:46,673 --> 00:38:47,793
Thank you so much for coming.
534
00:38:47,793 --> 00:38:48,293
Thank you.
535
00:38:49,433 --> 00:38:51,553
I appreciate you.
536
00:38:51,553 --> 00:38:52,053
Thanks, guys.
537
00:38:52,953 --> 00:38:58,473
For 220 years, Graham has supported children and families and communities in New York City.
538
00:38:59,113 --> 00:39:03,433
We need your help as we continue that vision and that mission.
539
00:39:04,153 --> 00:39:05,113
Join our movement.
