How High Achievers Stop Hustling for Worth and Find Sustainable Success

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A lot of high achievers look successful from the outside.
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They're producing, they're leading, they're building, they're delivering. But underneath
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all of that, many of them are tired, disconnected, and
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quietly trapped in a pattern of hustling for worth. And
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that is the real problem, because when achievement becomes identity
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and output becomes self worth, even success starts to feel really,
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really heavy. Today's guest is Paul krit creator of the
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Grace Framework and founder of the Elevate Partnership. His work
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is focused on helping high achievers and teams replace relentless
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hustle with a more grounded, emotional, intelligent, and sustainable way
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of performing and leading. And so he describes his work
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as being for people who are done hustling for worth,
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and the Graceframer is a practical catalyst for clearer thinking,
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better collaboration, and a more human way to excel. So
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this is a conversation about pressure, identity, leadership, performance, and
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what it really takes to be brilliant without burning yourself out.
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So I would love to go straight into the real issue.
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Paul. First of all, welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me. It's great to be here. Yeah.
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So great to be talking to you. So you describe
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your work as being for high achievers who are done
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hustling for worth. That is such a sharp way to
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put it. So what does hustling for worth actually look
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like in real life?
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It's the chasing status and affiliation because we were told
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chasing and status and affiliation was what we should do.
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So sometimes we I'll meet clients and sometimes during the
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conversation they'll say something like, you know, I'm not sure
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how I got here. And then we have a conversation
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that says, so what did you do? And what happens is,
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you know, they grew up, they went to school, they
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learned to sturdy hard. They then went to college. They
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were great at college, they got good, great, they went
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on and got a good job in their very well
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paid job in a profession that was growing. And then
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it was kind of like, well what do I do next? Oh,
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I settle down and I have a family, and I
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get a mortgage in a house, and a family and
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a car and a private education and a you know,
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I accumulate stuff. And then there comes a point where
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they're in this rhythm and as it's getting harder and
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harder because the environment is so uncertain at the moment,
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although I think it's always been uncertain really, but I
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think it's changing in such a way that is disconcerting.
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The people are reevaluating their relationships to the things that
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got them to here, you know, in terms of thinking
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about education, you know, do I want to do this
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job forever? I think that's what it looks like. I
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think it's saying yes, you know, it's it's your brain
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saying yes when body says no and not listening to it.
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Absolutely.
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How does someone know when their ambition has crossed the
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line into like over identification with performance.
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They're usually sitting on the sofa at eleven pm, nursing
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an extra glass of wine or two over and above
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what they want, or they're they're working really late. They
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have a sense of dread. On a Sunday night, you
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know what's next, I've got to be up at four
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am to catch a red eye or an early flight somewhere.
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And this is six months I've been doing this. Now,
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why am I still doing this? I'm tired. I just
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want to be at home. I want to eat an omelet,
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not lobster and steak, you know, I want to be
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with my family. I want to tell my kids' stories.
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I want to stop snapping at my partner. I want
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to have some fresh air. I want to go back
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to I want to find some joy in my life,
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because it doesn't seem to be much joy, It doesn't
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feel like it at the moment. All those things and
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it's different for everyone, but some combination of that it
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often escalates too. I remember there was one particular vacation
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I went on and we went we went to Spain,
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and I literally slept for three days that my body
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just said, no, you're not doing anything, you're too tired.
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Just stay here and sleep. That's a good signal. I
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think it's when you start to get illnesses that won't
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go away, that won't heal. You know, you get a
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cold that just goes on for anever and ever and
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a day, or cold and that disappears for a day,
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but then it's back. Or you get headaches, or you
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get stomach issues or indigestion issues. All of your body
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starts sort of knocking on the door and say are
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you paying attention and listening? Because if you don't listen,
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every time I try to get your attention, I'm going
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to use more of more marked and obvious ways of
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getting your attention.
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Yeah, the body will tell you. The body will make
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you slow down. Society shows you know this, the image
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of success as being so brilliant and beautiful and freeing.
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Yet the cost that people sometimes put themselves through in
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order to get.
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There is incredibly challenging.
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Before we hit record, we were talking about our own
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personal you know, relationship with our personal lives in business
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and it can be really really challenging. And yeah, it's
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it's like the cost of building your life around proving
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instead of just being.
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So what is that cost?
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The cost is usually a health and your joy, your
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your relationship, how you relate to life, how you move
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through the world, how you shape your presence with people
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you love. That's usually the cost. Something strains somewhere to
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the point where to the where point where it breaks.
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When it when it breaks, it's it's unpleasant, it's upsetting,
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it's it can be very damaging physically, emotionally and mentally.
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And you don't have to go there.
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Yeah, absolutely, So.
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There was a time when the hustle culture was sold
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as being the path to success. I feel like society
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is it's getting better and and you know, is really
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pushing for the balanced life. Why do you think that
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relentless hustle stops working even for capable driven people, Well.
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It stops working because because just neurobiologically we can't. It's
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it's like it's like driving a car down the freeway
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and having your foot on the gas pedal and leaving
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it there. You watch, you watch the needle stay in
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the red. Well, if it stays in the red long enough,
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something's going to burn and something's going to fall off.
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And we're no different as human beings, you know, with flesh,
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blood and bone. But something will fall off, something will break,
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something will burn out without a doubt. Now, I do
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want to make clear that this. People go, oh, does
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that mean we shouldn't do hustle, And it's kind of
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like no, no, no, no, no, hustle. Sprints are necessary. There
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are times when you you know, if you're doing if
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you're doing a cutover from one system to another, that
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can be a week's worth of work and it can
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be round the clock and you know, no rest for
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the wicked, But then there's a downtime afterwards. That's the point.
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You know, if you look at professional athletes, elite performers,
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they will tell you the most important part of their
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training is the recovery and relentless hustle. It is no recovery.
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Hustle sprints have recovery built into them. That's okay, yeah,
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but if you don't, if you don't do the recovery,
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then you will burn people out.
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Yeah. I feel like most people who are in that
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hustle culture are disconnected from themselves, so they're in this
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chronic state of depletion, and then they lose their ability
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to be creative, and I mean they lose their relationships
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and it damages their relationships.
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With them, their partners, and their teams, and.
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It's like a being in a constant state of survival.
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It is neurobiologically, we shut. Yeah, the our focus narrow
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is the prefrontal cortex switch parts of it, parts of
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it off, So we just don't have an availability to
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all of the perspective and wisdom and capabilities we have.
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We have this narrowing focus all the time that gets
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narrow and narrow and narrow, and you know, we get
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brain fog and all that kind of thing. That just
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means we can't really think as straight as we're capable
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of doing, and I I understand the pressures. You know,
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if if you've got someone snapping at your heels saying,
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I lent you half a million to build your business,
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I want my half a million back and then some
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and I'd like it back next week, please. That's that
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is a set of pressures that that that we succumb
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to and we believe. But the truth is, even with
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that financial pressure, it's not pressure because if you crash
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and burn, you start again and you pick yourself up
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and you learn, yes, you start with nothing, but you
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can start again. And I have start again with with
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more or less nothing. And and what you learn. The
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thing I learned was there's this there's this expression that
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that you hear, which is rock bottom. Yeah, I hit
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rock bottom. What everybody focuses on is the bottom. It's
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kind of oh, it's terrible, terrible down at the bottom.
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And it can be it can be depressing, soul destroying,
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all those things. But the thing we forget is we
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fell onto rock. And when we're on the rock, at
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rock bottom, nothing nothing can take you. You. For some reason,
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you become totally invincible in terms of the stuff that
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would normally get thrown at you. Oh, don't do this
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or this is a pressure going No, that's not a pressure.
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The pressure is not being able to feed your family.
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Of pressure is not having a roof over your head
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to be able to to stay warm. Those are real pressures. Pressures.
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Pressures are what you're seeing, not that I want to
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particularly go there in this conversation, but what you're seeing
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around the world in terms of people being displaced. That's pressure. Yeah,
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not selling a widget as fast as you want to,
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yeah to kind of pressure, but it's not real pressure.
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That makes sense.
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Yeah. Absolutely.
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The people who have struggled the most in life, I
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feel like, are the ones that are the most laid
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back when it comes to stress, right Like. It's I mean,
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I've I've also been through a lot, and you know
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those those places when you what you call rock bottom,
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it can feel really scary and isolating. But it's in
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that rebuilding that I've made myself. My foundation is so strong,
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and so when you have that strong foundation to rely on,
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nothing can shake you. It's like having the best building
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in a tornado, right, this foundation that's just unshakable, So
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the little things become less of a of a stressor.
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But the reality is is we all need to live
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and survive, and you know, have have a warm space
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to sleep at night. So the word grace can sound
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softer up distract if people don't understand what.
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You mean by it.
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But you have this framework that is very practical, So
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let's define it clearly. What is this grace framework that
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you're working with and what problem is it designed to solve?
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So the grace framework is exactly that it is. It
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is something that helps you think about how you're behaving.
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And this came about when I was when I was
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at IBM, and I was teaching consultants what you might
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call soft skills, and we teach them emotional intelligence, and
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we'd have slides and flip charts and all kinds of
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things with information on it, and we teach the abstract
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of emotional intelligence. So if I asked you what emotional
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intelligence is, you could probably give me an answer that
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would I'm pretty sure it would be right. Most people
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can something about stimulus and response, a space being between,
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and you know, the longer the space, the longer you
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you know, the more choices you can make. That's great.
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And then I asked the questions to how do you
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do it? And then it goes usually goes quite quiet. Oh,
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I don't know. I'm not really thought about that. And
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when do you do it? Well, I'm not sure I do.
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I know the answer, but you know, if I get
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my boss shouts at me, or something goes wrong at work,
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or I'm asked to stay late, you know, I'm not
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sure I'm as emotionally intelligent as I could be, because
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I've got all these stresses that are built up over
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the last six months. And you know, I might i
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might have a short fuse or be snappy or just
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tired because I haven't had enough sleep. And That's what
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I'm trying to do is I'm trying to give people
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a mechanism that says there's a way of thinking about
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this that isn't abstract. So if I want to go
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and develop muscles, where do I go? Okay, to the gym?
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What do I do in the gym? I sit down
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at a machine and I do reps. I practice a skill.
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And what I'm trying to do is to say, so,
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what are the skills you need to make a conscious
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decision about negating relentless hustle doing something different instead of
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being caught up. It's like it's like the old tape recorders.
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You know, you'd push play on a tape and the
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music had come out. Well a human being, sometimes the
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tape button is already pushed and you know, where's that music?
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Oh it's me, and you know I need to turn
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that off, and then I can't, or I can't find
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the stop button, or I can't even find the pause button,
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let alone the stop button. So for me, it's a
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way of doing that. And I wanted to design something
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that wasn't her seven Steps to Hea a model because
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in my there isn't such a thing. I also didn't
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want it to be a do it my way because
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my way is the right way, because it isn't your
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way is the right way. You have to find out
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what's for you. So I'll give an example of that.
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So the G every letter stands for something. So G
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is for grounding, R is for resolve, A is for acceptance,
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C is for create, and ears to embody it. Now,
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we all ground different ways. So I may say to you, Lisa,
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how do you like to ground yourself? And you go,
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you know what, I'd like going outside. I like sticking
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my hands in the soil, and I like doing gardening
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and that literally that's how I ground myself. Other people
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may go, you know, I like going for fifty mile
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bike rides at the weekend on my own, just add
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the countryside, pedaling away, observing the scenery and being on
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my own. That's how I grind myself. Other people may say,
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I like to cook dinner or I like to be
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with friends. So there's no one right answer. What matters
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is what is it for you that you're making a
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conscious choice that goes I'm not centered. I know. It's
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like I'm not on the horse. I need to get
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back on the horse. What is it that gets me
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back on the horse? And therefore you pick something for you.
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It isn't me saying that. Now I can give you
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some clues. I can go, well, people have said this,
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and people have said that, and I actually do this.
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Some people will do a marathon. Some people all swich
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you know, ten miles in a swimming pool. It doesn't matter,
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does it? Ground you? Is? What really matters resolve deals
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with the issue of goal setting. So the first rule
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of goal setting, the first rule of coaching, set a goal. Yeah,
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are you sure that's where you want to start? And
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whose goal is that you know, I want to get
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a job. I want to be CEO of a big company. Okay,
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why what's driving that? What's the identity issue? Are you
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doing it because you want to make an impact? Are
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you doing it because you want to right or wrong
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in an industry? Are you doing it because you see
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an opportunity and you can use that opportunity to create
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something that grows a community, that changes how we do work,
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that allows people to have work life, makes a difference,
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makes a positive difference in some way, shape or form.
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Or you're doing it just because you can get loads
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of money and loads of power and you've got this
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status and this affiliation. Just think about that. Whose goal
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is that? And is every goal a short term smart goal?
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Most smart goals are really small and contained. Yeah, I
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need to go and get some shopping. Okay, I can
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set a smart goal to do that. That's okay, I
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know where I need to go. Is it measurable? Yes?
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Is it achieval or realistic? But if I set a
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bigger goal, like I want to climb effets, yeah, that
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takes more than smart goals. That takes goals broken down
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into different things, into different segments. Yeah, when you get
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it into a small enough segment you can do that.
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So and how tightly do you hold onto that goal?
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We can all think of sports. People built their entire career, amazing,
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glittering career of sports as a as an athlete, and
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then they put that on one side and they go,
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well who am I now? Because they're so tied up
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in their identity, or they win the gold medal, or
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as Johnny Wilkinson, one of the England rugby players who
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kicked the winning goal at the win England won it
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years ago, he said, the next day I was depressed.
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How can I be depressed? I kicked the winning goal?
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That doesn't make sense. And then when it is so,
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you have this thing called the identity hook. And you know,
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if I'm not ambitious, if I'm not relentlessly, then who
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are you? And the problem is a lot of people
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aren't comfortable sitting with that question, so they stay busy.
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In fact, the busier they are usually the less comfortable
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they are. They're avoiding something. You know, I don't want
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to sit with myself. I'm not comfortable on my own.
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I don't want to look in the mirror, I don't
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want to look at things like that. So that's resolved,
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and then A is for accept and there's three levels
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of accept there's acceptance of self, there's acceptance of other,
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and there's acceptance of the system that we're in. So
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most of us, you know, the easiest test of that
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is if I said, go to the mirror, look at
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the mirror, and smiling and smile yourself for the wror.
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How many of you would feel comfortable looking looking in
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the mirror and smiling at yourself looking directly in your
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eyes for any length a period of time. So well, yeah,
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some are lucky and they've been encouraged to do that,
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but I would suggest that a lot of us, and
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certainly those that are in the relentless hustle trap, aren't
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comfortable with that because because they looked, they look at
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the world through a particular set of lenses, and the
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reasons they're busy is they don't want to take in
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what's around them and usually themselves. So self acceptance, you know,
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can can you can you reintegrate all the parts of
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yourself that you've either pushed away or suppressed or pushed
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down to come back and be whole as a person,
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Because that's the first thing because when you can do that,
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and that's things like, you know, men, when are you
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going to get comfortable with your feminine side? When are
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you actually when are you actually going to understand and
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that it's it's not something you wear and have biologically,
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it's something completely different, and it's it's one of the
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most powerful things you can access. Stop what are we
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When are we going to stop doing the hero's journey
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by default? Because actually the heroines journey is a tougher
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journey bring everything back in just being yourself. You know,
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society will tell you buy this product. When you buy
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this product, you'll be this, and you'll be accepted and
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you'll be happy. Do this and you'll be you know,
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some something great will happen outside of you. And yet
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all we have to do is accept the miracle that
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is us, which sounds kind of wooy until you sit
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down and you think about it and you kind of go,
359
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who am I not to be brilliant? Yeah? I am
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already brilliant. Why do I need to go and chase
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these things to be even more brilliant? It's like I'm enough,
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and usually people chasing relentless hustler dealing with that, I'm
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not enough. I know, I did it for a long
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time and it's quite a sich and you have to
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do quite a lot of work to do it. So
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there's self acceptance, there's an acceptance of other When we
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meet someone. We meet someone usually with an agenda. Usually
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it's to answer. Usually it's to put forth our jest,
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or it might be I want you to like me. Yeah,
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so I'm going to have a whole stack of things
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and behaviors that kind of go. Right. I'm going to
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do all the things and contort my language, my posture,
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and my behavior in such a way that by the
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end of our interaction I'll feel you like me and
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I've achieved my goal. Well, that kind of that misses
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a whole raft of opportunity. Is that accepting other person? No,
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it's not acceptance of other person is when we meet
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the other person and we're still and we let them
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come to us. I think that's such a powerful phrase.
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It's Nick Asku's phrase from Soul Biographies, and he talks
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about can you let the other person come to you
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without putting your stuff in the way, because only when
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you do that then you accept the other person, right, hmm.
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Interesting?
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And when and we get on together and we work
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together better. And a good work culture is a work
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culture when we can all show up whole and accept
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each other as we are. Not a lot of work
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cultures do that. There are some, but they tend to
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be small community cultures, this, that, and the other. But
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even there things things are going, so acceptance of other
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becomes really important. It's easy to be kind to someone
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that looks like us, talks like us, thinks like us.
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But if I meet someone that isn't, how long can
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I hold my arm so wide open enough to welcome
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you and accept you as you are? And you've only
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to think of conflict anywhere right now. And it's because
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we're not. We're not holding the arms wide open enough
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to sit down and have the conversation because at one
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level we're different, but at another level we're more the same.
401
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That we are different, absolutely, and we forget that because
402
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it's taught out of us, because we listen to things,
403
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people news, read stuff, and we let that influence and
404
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then and then we don't think enough because we're too busy.
405
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We're in this relentless hustle. My brain doesn't have bandwidth
406
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time to go. Hm, I really need to think about that.
407
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You know, it's kind of I need to move on
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to the next thing. And then if we've got if
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we've got all those things tucked away, that means that
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we have an ability to slow down. And when we
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slow down, we have a wider perspective of what's happening
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in the world. We have greater access to our faculties,
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we have greater access to other people's faculties because if
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we accept people as they are, we're going to ask them,
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I can't do this. I don't know how to do this.
416
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Do you know how to do it? Do you know
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anyone that does? I need some help? That's quite vunderab
418
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At one level you think about work culture and particularly
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in certain sectors, then then that's it. I mean, it's
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getting better, but generally speaking, we're still at that place where,
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you know, because we don't accept each other and we're
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all posturing and we're all doing this, and we're all
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not willing to admit that, we're all making up as
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we go along, we're doing the best we can with
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what we have. Then we say, uh, yeah, I know
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how to do it. I'll come back, I'll come back
427
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when it's done, and then it's not done. So it
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allows us to create fearlessly. Is such an over and
429
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:42.279
overused word. What I really mean by it is the
430
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blank piece of paper kind of create, not the cut
431
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and paste, because the challenges we've got now, the thinking
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that got us to them is not the thinking we
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need to get out of them. Yeah, we need we
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need a council of grandmothers of the un the un
435
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silly I here at one level, not a bad idea
436
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at another level, because let's face it, it's not working.
437
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How's it going right now? Let's think about that. So
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that's that's creat and then and then embody it is.
439
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:20.279
There's there's an expression I think Bennie Brown surfaced it
440
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first from the Asara tribe and they have a saying
441
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which is knowledge is rumor until it lives in the bones.
442
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So it's okay to know it, but until you can
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do it. It's kind of like doing marsh martial arts.
444
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And you watch all the Bruce Lee movies, read all
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the books, and watch all the videos and instruction videos,
446
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but until you step on that matt you're you're not learning.
447
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So you have to learn by doing, and you have
448
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to learn through consistency. So that's the grace framework. It's circular,
449
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so it means you can start at any point where
450
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where you know, where are you? What's going wrong?
451
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Oh?
452
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You know, I'm not consistent. Oh so you're gonna embodiment issue. Okay,
453
00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.759
what's the issue there? Oh I'm not grounded. Okay. So
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we can go around the circle, and we can go
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across the circle. And sometimes it's a bit like twister.
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You know, we can have two hands on certain parts
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of the framework and foot on the other and go okay, yeah,
458
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now what makes sense to deal with? So, as I say,
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it's a lens by which you can look at relentless
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hustle and go do differently.
461
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Yeah, there's so much gold in there.
462
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I think one of the biggest issues, and I love
463
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that you pointed that out, is that people don't really
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know who they are. And so you take away your
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job title, you take away all of these titles that
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you give yourself.
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Or you earn, you achieve, and then who are you?
468
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And so I find it so interesting that the people
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that are the most successful and they achieve these huge achievements,
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like you said, winning a gold medal, and then the
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next day they wake up and they're like, now what
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And it's like their whole world is destroyed and aren't out,
473
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which is so interesting. So I truly believe like figuring
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out who you are as a human being is the
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most valuable thing that a human can do.
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I think, so to know yourself and to know what
477
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:18.920
is you and what isn't you, and to be willing
478
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:23.880
to say this is me, and you're you. And I
479
00:27:23.920 --> 00:27:26.640
disagree with these things, but you're still a human being.
480
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:31.839
We can disagree, but we can still accept each other.
481
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.480
I think when it steps into harming other people or
482
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:39.480
trying to get people to your way of thinking in
483
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:45.440
a way that's violent and destructive and dysfunctional or whatever
484
00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:47.599
word you want to use, then you've kind of overstepped
485
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:51.680
a line. And I think we are at a place
486
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.039
where we need to think about how we live and
487
00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:01.000
work more consciously because the old model seems to be
488
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:05.640
in collapse. The data says the data says it is.
489
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.599
There are various there are various little tipping points that
490
00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:12.839
you're starting to see, and you're so also starting to
491
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:17.160
hear a different kind of conversation about kindness, about you know,
492
00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:21.319
people looking at work and going well, it's about impact,
493
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.240
it's not ours. And yes I need a certain amount
494
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:27.519
of money to be able to live, but then and
495
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.319
provide and provide for my family. But you know I
496
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:35.160
do I need a squillion to do that? Well? Probably not. Yes,
497
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:37.599
I want to be comfortable and everyone has a right
498
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:40.640
to that, and everyone has a right to be supported
499
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:42.440
if they fall through the net, because some people fall
500
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.039
through the net through no fault of their own. Love that.
501
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:48.920
Where where did your framework come?
502
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:49.240
For you?
503
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.000
Come from? For you personally?
504
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:57.519
Through gazillion mistakes I made through most of my life,
505
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:02.599
and and so of learning from that, that process of learning.
506
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:05.240
So I started my journey in two thousand and seven.
507
00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:13.519
In in fact, I was writing a piece for Substack
508
00:29:14.680 --> 00:29:16.359
that was kind of a little bit of a backstory,
509
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:17.960
and I was thinking, how do I tell how to
510
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:24.079
explain my journey without sort of being overdoing it? And
511
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:26.759
in the year two thousand, I weighed two hundred and
512
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:30.160
twenty six pounds, which is just under twenty stone one
513
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.759
hundred and twenty kilos, And like a good storyteller, I went,
514
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.720
those numbers don't mean anything to anybody. Yeah, it sounds
515
00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:39.799
a lot, but what's that reality? I thought, Well, two
516
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:42.880
and twenty six pounds. It's about fifty bags of sugar,
517
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:47.079
and I thought, yeah, but people can't visualize that. So
518
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.240
I typed into Google. I said, what what what common
519
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.799
object weighs about one hundred and twenty kilos. I loved
520
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.960
the answer. It said an adult giant panda, and I went,
521
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:01.640
that's it. That's the description. And if you've if you've
522
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:05.519
ever seen an adult panda sort of be clumsy and lazy,
523
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.799
that was kind of me. In two thousand and the
524
00:30:09.799 --> 00:30:11.839
truth was, I sat on a bed in a hotel
525
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:14.400
after a day of consulting, looked to the wall and said,
526
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:17.960
is this it? Because if it is, it sucks. And
527
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.359
I'm unhappy and I have no clue why. I'm fat,
528
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:28.000
I'm smoking, I'm not healthy, and I don't really like
529
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:32.400
my job anymore, and I don't like my family, and
530
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:36.359
I don't like this. And then I realized how angry
531
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.799
at the world I was. And then I just went
532
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:42.000
on a very long journey which is still continuing to
533
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:45.920
sort of address a lot of layers within that. But
534
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.799
I suppose the breakthrough really came through when I started
535
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.359
doing ikido at fifty three, which is nearly ten years
536
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.119
ago now. And it just all clicked. You know, there
537
00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:01.519
are practices there that are completely counterintuitive. So the idea
538
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.480
that if you want to go fast, you slow down,
539
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.960
if you want power, you relax. And I had this
540
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.119
thing and I went, we're living life backwards. You know.
541
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.799
We think if to go fast, we've got to go fast. No, no,
542
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:17.200
no no, And you'll hear the Navy seals talk about it,
543
00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.400
you know, slowest, smooth, smooth is fast. And it's so true.
544
00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:22.799
I've seen it, I've felt it, and I understand it.
545
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:27.400
And so there are principles through through that particular martial
546
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:31.559
art that sort of underpinned it. And I was going
547
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:35.519
through my hard drive a while back and I came
548
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.519
across something i'd written in twenty seventeen because I was
549
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:40.680
a coach by then, and of course, being a coach,
550
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:43.759
you need a signature. You need a signature program, don't you,
551
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:45.319
Because you're not a coach if you don't have a
552
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:50.000
signature program. Yeah. I got this piece of paper out
553
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:53.000
and I'd literally build a kitchen sink and then thrown
554
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:55.640
everything in it because I looked at it and I went, yeah,
555
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.880
I know what you're trying to do, but my gosh,
556
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.160
you weren't really thinking, you know, you were you were
557
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:03.720
thinking about the inputs, not the outputs. You were not
558
00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:09.519
thinking about what's the relief that you're guiding people towards? Right, Well,
559
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.680
what is that transition? That transformation that people want to
560
00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:16.920
make you their own pain over here and they want
561
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:18.920
to be over here where they're in less pain and
562
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:23.279
they're experiencing not experiencing no pain, but they're experiencing more
563
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.519
joy in their life doing the things they want. Because
564
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:30.599
it's a short thing. You know, life is is very short,
565
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:33.440
and I guess once you cross the halfway mark, that
566
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:36.759
becomes clearer. And some of that became clearer. So that's
567
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:37.519
where it came from.
568
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:44.160
So when you were building this brainwork, what did you
569
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:49.000
learn about the misunderstandings that high achievers have about the
570
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:51.759
relationship between identity and performance.
571
00:32:54.480 --> 00:32:57.680
People aren't their behavior. It's it's as simple as that,
572
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:02.119
and people aren't their identity. I mean, we could talk
573
00:33:02.119 --> 00:33:04.480
about it, we could have we could have several podcasts
574
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:07.440
with several very learned, clever people, people more clever than me,
575
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:11.799
to talk about what is self? But I think it's
576
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:14.480
just about getting to a place where you're you're comfortable
577
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:17.160
with you know who you are, you know what you like,
578
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:21.599
you know what you don't like, you know what you're
579
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:25.000
willing to tolerate. You, you know where your boundaries are,
580
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:28.799
and you know where you'll enforce those boundaries, either consciously
581
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:34.240
or unconsciously, or or explicitly, or you'll detach with love.
582
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:39.680
You go, Okay, that's you. That's fine, not my thing.
583
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:43.240
I'm going to step away, have a great time. Yea
584
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.079
will connect again when we next connect. So I think
585
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:52.799
it's been very comfortable in that skin and not trying
586
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:56.440
to live up to this image of perfection or whatever
587
00:33:56.480 --> 00:34:01.000
this cut cut, cut out cardboard thing is that we're
588
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.039
supposed to be and just and just stepping into that
589
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:08.400
wholeheartedness because there's a real joy to it that until
590
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:11.519
you do it, it's difficult to just describe it. It's
591
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:15.480
like trying to persuade your kids to study hard. It's
592
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:21.119
kind of like me, I don't want to. And that's
593
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.800
the thing. It's all counterintuitive. It's hard for me to
594
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:27.960
explain to someone that that the journey is worth it,
595
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:32.119
but it absolutely is. I'm not just saying that, you know,
596
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:34.239
I want to. You can talk to any many of
597
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:38.280
my clients, and they'll tell you the journey they went on,
598
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:41.639
which is not my journey, was worth it. And yeah,
599
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.159
there were one or two bits that were we're a
600
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:46.639
bit tricky and a bit scary, but you know, having
601
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.039
someone beside them that said, it's okay, It's okay to
602
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:52.880
be a mess. It's okay to to not get out
603
00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:54.880
of bed for a couple of days because you're trying.
604
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.119
You know, you're going through this dark night of the
605
00:34:57.159 --> 00:35:01.079
soul or whatever it is. You know, we all have it.
606
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.960
It's part of the human experience.
607
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:05.159
Absolutely.
608
00:35:05.719 --> 00:35:07.800
So then what do you think changes when a person
609
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:13.320
stopped using success to prove their value.
610
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:16.719
Well, I think they value themselves for who they are. First,
611
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:24.239
they they save a lot of money. They have to
612
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:26.159
spend their way. You know, they don't go and get
613
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.320
the next car because the next car is the thing
614
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:32.320
that I need that or you know, they're not queuing
615
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:34.400
to get the next piece of technology. And trust me,
616
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.559
I'm a shiny toy boy. I like shiny toys as
617
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:39.840
much as anyone, but they just come a point where
618
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:45.639
you go, why would I put a rolex on my
619
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:50.199
wrist when I can get a really good ten dollars.
620
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.360
Watch that tells the time, and that's enough for me.
621
00:35:55.719 --> 00:35:59.400
Everyone's different, you know, people who have different criteria. But
622
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.000
you know it's the people that wear it as an understated,
623
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.159
understated you know, it's part of my identity. Again, there's
624
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.639
nothing wrong with that. The question is has it hooked you?
625
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.000
Has it got you? Because if it's got you, that's
626
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.800
that's when it becomes challenging because you're always running to
627
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:21.800
try and keep up with it. I remember, I remember,
628
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:26.639
this is gonna sounds so so stupid. I got my
629
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:31.199
job at Price Waterhouse Coopers, and I remember being in
630
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:33.559
the left on the way down after the interview in
631
00:36:33.679 --> 00:36:35.840
tears because they had said, yes, you've got the job.
632
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:38.079
Because it was a way I was able to tell
633
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:40.639
my dad I'd done something good that he could be
634
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:43.280
proud of. And the first thing I went to I
635
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:45.280
was in London and I went to New Bond Street
636
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:50.360
and I heard the consultants wore crisp Swiss cotton shirts
637
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:54.400
with a double cuff. So I went searching for Swiss
638
00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.719
cotton shirts with a double cough, came out with for
639
00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:01.400
spent a ton of money. Yeah it was nice to
640
00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:03.440
put on, but I look at that. Now, I go,
641
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:10.880
do you think, yeah, nobody else noticed. It was just
642
00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:13.880
the story in my head that said this is what
643
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:17.679
you do, and you go, yeah, I suppose. I suppose
644
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:22.400
it's the folly of youth. Possibly, but it was also
645
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:26.079
an identity. I was hooked and I was spending money
646
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:30.360
I didn't have. That was that was the key. I
647
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.840
put it on cards and that that's a different episode.
648
00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:40.280
Well, I think the most brilliant thing that you said
649
00:37:40.280 --> 00:37:42.880
in that whole story is, well, there's a few things.
650
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.079
It's the validation that you were looking for for your
651
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:49.519
from your father. It's like you achieved something, but it
652
00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:51.880
wasn't for you. It was like, now my father will
653
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.559
be proud of me. And then the stories that we
654
00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:58.800
tell ourselves. So it's the story that we're telling ourselves
655
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:02.519
about everything. It's on things in life that make us
656
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.000
act and feel a certain way, and so if we
657
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:07.719
can be aware of the story we're telling ourselves, like
658
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:14.840
everything is a story. Someone just brilliantly mentioned The Truman Show.
659
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.199
I don't know if you've seen that movie, and that's
660
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.159
the whole movie is such a brilliant depiction of what
661
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:23.760
the world is actually like because everything is just a
662
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:26.840
story and perception, and if you can bust through that,
663
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:29.480
then you can bust through the illusion and you can
664
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:32.920
see the truth in everything. And that's a scary place
665
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:36.719
to be as well, because it's almost like everything is
666
00:38:36.840 --> 00:38:39.880
meaningless in a in a way, yeah.
667
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:42.559
Right, in a way, it is. In an way, it's
668
00:38:42.599 --> 00:38:45.800
not because it gives you a sense of freedom to
669
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.239
go on my terms. Yeah, I'm going to sell. I'm
670
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.840
going to give me the pen. I'm going to write
671
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.920
the story now that I want to write, so that
672
00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:56.400
when I get to my last breath and I read
673
00:38:56.400 --> 00:38:59.239
the last chapter, I go, that was a great story.
674
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:03.840
Hm hm, Yes.
675
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:08.440
So you talk about your framework, the Grace framework, helping
676
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:12.920
teams work together better by reducing the profit erosion caused
677
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.599
by misalignment, miscommunication, and conflict.
678
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.159
So that is really powerful in business.
679
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.800
So how does the absence of grace show up inside
680
00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:22.320
of a team?
681
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:23.239
What are you seeing?
682
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:30.239
I'm seeing people not keeping promises. I'm seeing people saying
683
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.840
one thing in the room and doing something else in
684
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:38.320
the corridor. I'm seeing sabotage. I'm seeing people politicking and
685
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.880
screwing each other over one way or another. I'm seeing
686
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:48.199
people focus inwards going me, me, me, me, me, and
687
00:39:48.280 --> 00:39:53.800
not paying a lot of attention, dragging the heels over stuff,
688
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:58.840
not admitting they need help, not pushing other people to this,
689
00:39:59.280 --> 00:40:03.480
not holding to a higher standard, getting away with what
690
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.119
you know, the bare minimum of what needs to be done,
691
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.880
stuck in patterns. You know, people say yeah, yeah, yeah,
692
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:14.360
I'm going to change, and then you know, still busy, busy, busy, busy,
693
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:20.280
and they're not changing. People who study stuff and they go, yeah, yeah,
694
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.199
that was a great course, and you get you get there,
695
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.079
you get the evaluations afterwards, and it's kind of like
696
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:27.199
five out of five all the way across, and you go,
697
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:30.159
i've learned, now to go I'm not sure I believe that,
698
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.519
and then not seeing anything happen you know that it's
699
00:40:36.519 --> 00:40:39.039
almost performative and it's it's like, well, we did our
700
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:41.960
best in the course and we rated it because if
701
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:44.159
we do that, you won't look at us closely anymore,
702
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:46.760
and yeah, that bits over and we can get on
703
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:49.039
with going back to what we know we're comfortable with.
704
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:53.079
So you'll see things. You'll see things like that you've
705
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:57.159
just see miscommunication. You'll see see and hear you know,
706
00:40:57.239 --> 00:40:59.960
someone will say something and someone will misinterpret it because
707
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:03.760
the person transmitting the message hasn't checked that the message
708
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.559
they intended to send was the message that was actually received.
709
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.880
They just assumed it was there. You You see people
710
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:14.000
tell instead of sell command and control. You know, what
711
00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:15.280
do you where? Do you want to when? Do you
712
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:20.159
want to stop? You see all kinds of bad behavior.
713
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:24.199
Yeah, I think the integrity piece is huge.
714
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:28.159
That I think in my experience in leadership, if the
715
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:30.760
person in charge is not doing what they're saying and
716
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:33.280
saying what they're doing, I feel like that throws off
717
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.119
the whole entire team.
718
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:36.760
Well it means you can you can get away with
719
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:39.480
it too. So if you're if you're the guy that
720
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:45.599
changes their mind every every every other week, there's no
721
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:47.280
point in you know, people will saying there's no point
722
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.360
in talking to him or bringing ideas because they've changed
723
00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:51.119
his mind anyway.
724
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:54.000
Yeah, or he won't listen to me.
725
00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:57.599
Yeah, being listening, listening and being heard as another as
726
00:41:57.639 --> 00:41:58.559
another big one.
727
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:05.960
Yeah. Huge, The the whole trying to trying to do
728
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:09.039
the thing where you try to make a decision, but
729
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:12.440
you go you go for approval and the boss goes, well,
730
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.159
let me tell you how it is and then by
731
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:19.159
being the bottleleck, you create learned helplessness. It's kind of like, well,
732
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:25.000
it's almost like, well, Daddy'll fix it, because it's hard
733
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:27.639
to sit down and wrestle with some of the challenges
734
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:30.119
to go. I don't know if someone will say I've
735
00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:33.119
never done this before, and I know we're all different. Yeah,
736
00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:35.360
have a go, or find someone that has done it
737
00:42:35.400 --> 00:42:38.360
before going to teach you, get Ai to teach you.
738
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:43.000
You know, we're in a place now where if you
739
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:46.159
if you're willing to ask a few questions, you can
740
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:51.320
learn quite a lot, very very quickly. And then but
741
00:42:51.400 --> 00:42:53.880
then we see differences, you know, we see difference of skin,
742
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:58.719
we see difference of religion, difference in outlook, in terms
743
00:42:58.760 --> 00:43:01.000
of sexual preference, all that kind of thing, and then
744
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:03.559
we use it to judge people. Yeah, there's the accept thing.
745
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:07.159
There's the accept thing that they go straight out the window.
746
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:10.800
Yeah. Absolutely.
747
00:43:11.400 --> 00:43:14.960
So let's make this practical for the people listening out
748
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.960
there who maybe they are very aware that they're operating
749
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:21.880
in overdrive. So what are the first ways to start
750
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:25.159
applying the Grace framework in daily life?
751
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:31.719
Get your diary and two mornings a week clear it
752
00:43:33.199 --> 00:43:38.239
MHM that's the first thing. Clear it turn your phone
753
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:41.239
off and then decide what you're going to do with
754
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:45.159
that time, because you will have full presence whatever that is. Yeah,
755
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:47.639
you can just book it as a meeting and if
756
00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:49.480
that's a walk in the woods, because you're going for
757
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:53.280
some good quality thinking time, or it's your reading time.
758
00:43:53.480 --> 00:43:56.639
You know you're going to go and read something that
759
00:43:57.000 --> 00:44:01.360
nourishes you or teaches you something, or you're going to
760
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:04.480
have an experience, you know, look at the artist's way.
761
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:06.599
It's kind of like book a date with yourself. Go
762
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:11.280
and do something that takes you out of relentless hustle.
763
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.360
And I don't mean going have a pizza in six years.
764
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.360
I mean go do something. What's the what's the thing
765
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:19.639
that brings you joy? Usually what I do is I'll
766
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:22.159
get a piece of paper and a pen and it's blank,
767
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:25.480
and I say, right, money is no object. You can't
768
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:28.840
fail write down what you're going to do in that time,
769
00:44:29.760 --> 00:44:34.119
and you can see instantly in their physiology they know
770
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:39.199
exactly what it is, right And I don't know what
771
00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:41.400
it is, but I know they've accessed it.
772
00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:42.880
Mm hmm.
773
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:44.440
It's kind of like I want to go for a
774
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:45.679
bike ground. I want to go for a walk. I
775
00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:47.199
want to I want to take my wife for a
776
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.320
coffee and spend quality time with her. Yeah, I want
777
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:51.559
to be with my partner. I want to be I
778
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:53.960
want to take my kids, go and do something my kids,
779
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:59.559
because it's grounding. Mm hmm. Yeah, And it's part of
780
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:05.079
the every piece of high performance. So put some recovery
781
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:05.840
time in your darry.
782
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:09.920
That's a great tip. I love that.
783
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:16.440
So if someone yeah, it's easy, exactly exactly what do
784
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:21.400
you think that the successful person on paper, but they're
785
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:24.519
exhausted in reality. So they're successful on paper, but they're
786
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:27.400
actually exhausted. What do you think the first truth they
787
00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:28.760
need to face would be?
788
00:45:32.320 --> 00:45:39.079
There's many but it's a simple question of what is
789
00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:43.480
the payoff? Or but actually a better question, for what
790
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:44.679
purpose do I do this?
791
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:46.039
Mm hmm?
792
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:49.760
Not why do I do this? For what purpose? Because
793
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.840
there is a purpose to it and there is a payoff.
794
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:59.840
So the purpose of doing consulting was I'm busy. I
795
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:03.079
have the status and affiliation, the big salary, and the
796
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:07.679
markers of success. The payoff, so I get my dad's
797
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:12.719
approval rights. That's a powerful payoff. And the payoffs are
798
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:17.039
usually really powerful and several the several levels deep.
799
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:23.920
Right, Yeah, Exposing the truth of the situation, I think
800
00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:27.119
brings so much clarity of perspective. Right, Why are we
801
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:28.280
doing the things that we're doing?
802
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:33.079
Yeah, because because in this day and age, you don't
803
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.239
necessarily have to do them. And I know that's a
804
00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:39.599
very privileged statement. I need to say that some people
805
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:41.440
have to do some of the things because they have
806
00:46:41.519 --> 00:46:45.960
to do that because of their circumstances and because there
807
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:48.800
aren't always the opportunities. I'm not talking to those people.
808
00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:52.599
I'm talking to the people who are running themselves ragged
809
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:56.840
because they're they're filling trying to fill a void that
810
00:46:56.880 --> 00:46:57.800
will never be filled.
811
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.840
Mm hmm. Absolutely.
812
00:47:03.480 --> 00:47:05.400
The only way you can. The only way you can
813
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:08.239
fill it is sit beside it and go, that's a
814
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.000
void and I know where it comes from, and make
815
00:47:11.039 --> 00:47:13.840
friends with it and then know how to deal with it.
816
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.679
Yeah, Paul, thank you so much for the conversation today.
817
00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:23.199
If you could leave high achievers with one message about grace, ambition,
818
00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:26.239
and sustainable brilliance, what would it be?
819
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:36.239
You are enough and I see you and I hear you,
820
00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.079
go tell that to everyone around you that that you
821
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:47.840
care about and see what comes back. HM.
822
00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.400
Paul, thank you so much for the brilliant conversation today.
823
00:47:53.119 --> 00:47:58.679
It was really raw and truthful and honest, and it's
824
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:00.000
it was powerful.
825
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.679
Well, thank you for being such a generous host and.
826
00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:05.639
To our audience.
827
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:08.840
What I appreciate about this conversation is that it gives
828
00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.079
high achievers something they rarely get, permission to pursue that
829
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:19.199
excellence without self assurance. So it reminds us that grace
830
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.800
is not weakness. It's not softness in an unhelpful sense.
831
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:26.519
It is a discipline, practical way of relating to ourselves,
832
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:30.840
our work, and other people, so that performance stops costing
833
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:34.320
us our peace. So, Paul Kirk brings us such an
834
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.360
important message right now. You do not have to hustle
835
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:40.440
for worth forever, and the path to brilliance may actually
836
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.760
begin when you stop performing for permission to matter Again. Paul,
837
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.559
thank you so much for being here, and thank you
838
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:49.880
to our audience for tuning in. We will make sure
839
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:53.559
to have Paul's information, including his website where to locate
840
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.559
his Grace framework in the show notes for you. Until then,
841
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:01.599
take care and ask yourself the hard questions.
842
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:04.920
It's worth it. Bye for now, everyone,