How He Sold $2 Billion In Trading Cards | Ken Goldin

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.120
But you know the car was going to sell for
2
00:00:01.159 --> 00:00:01.520
that much.
3
00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:05.639
Hell no, you know, when I did the deal, you know,
4
00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:07.919
I really wanted to advance like one and a half
5
00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:10.080
or two million. And I spoke to my head of
6
00:00:10.119 --> 00:00:16.640
TCG and he actually told me that, you know, the
7
00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.879
odds were that Logan was going to lose money on
8
00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:23.559
the sale, and you know, and he gave me his
9
00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:27.559
reasons why, and I'm like, okay, And then I spoke
10
00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:30.399
to a couple other people and I'm just like, screw it.
11
00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:32.799
I know I can make him money on this card.
12
00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:39.000
I realized that Pokemon is such a cultural asset right now,
13
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:43.200
and it just it's like so many people that are
14
00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:46.840
now in their late twenties and thirties and have more
15
00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:49.679
money than they did when they were twelve to seventeen
16
00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:52.280
love it and grew up on it. And I just felt,
17
00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:54.640
we can, you know, at least at least get him
18
00:00:54.679 --> 00:00:57.520
back is five point two, But you know, my goal
19
00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.359
was really to get like eight to ten million. I
20
00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:02.560
never thought it would break the record for the most
21
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:06.719
valuable trading card of all time. And hell know that
22
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:08.760
I think it was going to go over fifteen million dollars.
23
00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:14.000
I mean that was. That was wonderful until until the
24
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.680
show dropped. And then I started getting contacted by people
25
00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.959
that wanted to register and wanted credit limits of like
26
00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.400
ten million dollars plus. And there's only one reason. Somebody
27
00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:30.159
in you know, January of you know, this year, says
28
00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:32.079
I wouldn't need a credit limit of over ten million.
29
00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:34.480
It could be for the Wagner which was coming up,
30
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:36.959
but it was most likely for this. Wow.
31
00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:39.159
What did it take to convince Logan Paul to sell
32
00:01:39.159 --> 00:01:40.000
his Pokemon card.
33
00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:42.439
He had to get married and he had to get
34
00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:44.519
an expensive wedding. I mean, I need to thank Nina
35
00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.319
for this. I mean, in all seriousness, I mean he
36
00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:52.519
he loved the card. He you know, I contacted him
37
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:54.519
when he bought it. You know, I'd known him since
38
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.359
late twenty twenty, right, and I did that break with
39
00:01:58.439 --> 00:02:02.959
him in twenty one, you know, when we actually pulled
40
00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:05.519
the two to rezards out of the box. Right, And
41
00:02:06.439 --> 00:02:09.319
you know, obviously he wore it everywhere, he publicized it.
42
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:14.879
He treasured it. But it came a decision where he said, okay, yep,
43
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:18.199
growing up now, got a baby on the way.
44
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.080
Expensive wedding. We've heard in Logan's contact got it.
45
00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.680
You know, now have a baby, Now I'm getting married,
46
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.840
have an expensive wedding, and yeah this you know. Funny
47
00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:28.680
thing is is I do not know if that two
48
00:02:28.719 --> 00:02:31.000
and a half million dollars paid for the entire wedding.
49
00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:33.080
I do not think it did. Wow.
50
00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:35.080
Yes, so Logan Pol's wedding, you think over two and
51
00:02:35.120 --> 00:02:35.599
a half million.
52
00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:36.360
I think it was.
53
00:02:36.439 --> 00:02:38.360
Yeah, Logan, let us know. I know you've alluded to
54
00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.240
it in content. Let us know. Okay, so I have
55
00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:42.360
to ask you. Logan buys it for five point two
56
00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:44.840
you give him two and a half million up front? Yes, right,
57
00:02:45.319 --> 00:02:47.479
sixteen and a half pretty much? It tells four. Was
58
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.759
that in your opinion? Now, with everything you know and
59
00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:51.439
all the people that you saw involved in it, was
60
00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.719
Logan Pol's Pokemon card undervalued or overvalued? At sixteen and
61
00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:55.879
a half million dollars?
62
00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.240
I think it's properly valued. And here's the reason why
63
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:03.520
I try to do everything in my business off of comps.
64
00:03:03.879 --> 00:03:06.680
And I say, okay, fine, how is so? I have
65
00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:10.960
to look at Pokemon as a category, and it's bigger
66
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:13.840
than any other license. So it's bigger than Marvel, it's
67
00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.840
bigger than Star Wars, it's bigger than Mickey Mouse, bigger
68
00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.439
than Hollo Kitty, you know, and the things you've heard of,
69
00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:22.000
things you may not have heard of around the world.
70
00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:25.919
Second of all, I look at the numbers. You know,
71
00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:28.599
if you look every month at PSA, if you add
72
00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:32.719
up every single major sport card that's graded and you
73
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.439
put them all together, that combined baseball, football, basketball, hockey,
74
00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:41.039
and soccer combined is about how many Pokemon cards are
75
00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:46.280
getting graded every month. So the demand worldwide is larger
76
00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:49.439
than the sports category. The difference was they traditionally did
77
00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:52.639
not have the five and ten million dollar cards. So
78
00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:58.879
why I think it's fairly valued is because there were
79
00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:04.639
three individual visuals that place bids over twelve million dollars,
80
00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:07.560
so you had you know, this is not like, oh
81
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:09.599
my god, it's a private sale. Some guy paid sixteen
82
00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:11.759
and a half million dollars. I bet nobody else would
83
00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:14.599
pay ten. There was somebody willing to pay sixteen million,
84
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.279
two hundred and fifty thousand dollars right underneath them, right,
85
00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:21.240
and now with the publicity, it's it's definitely got to
86
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:22.639
be over twenty million dollars. Wow.
87
00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:24.360
Okay, So that's what I was going to ask you, right,
88
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:27.680
so we talked about five point two few years later,
89
00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.839
sixteen and a half million dollars. What is that card
90
00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.560
going to be worth in ten years in your opinion?
91
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:41.399
Look if barring an unforeseen move away towards collectibles, which
92
00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:46.879
I don't expect, barring an unforeseen worldwide economic disaster, and
93
00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.160
considering you know, asset class as well as money supply,
94
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.120
it would not shock me if it was fifty million plus.
95
00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:59.480
Really yes, because and here's why, people are paying for
96
00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.319
the best of the best. They will pay up for
97
00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.519
the best of the best. And I don't know if
98
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.000
you can see what I'm wearing today, but this is
99
00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:11.279
not for cards and memorability. This is a tournament my
100
00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:13.759
son was in for baseball, where they take the ten
101
00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:15.639
best teams in the country a perfect game and they
102
00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:17.839
play each other. But I thought this was and it
103
00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:19.600
just happened two weeks ago, but I just thought this
104
00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:22.759
was an appropriate I love the shirt to wear because
105
00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.800
people are willing to say I will pay what it
106
00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:31.720
takes today to buy what I perceive as the best
107
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.759
in class, the best of the best in an individual
108
00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.680
accent class, knowing that if I hold that as more
109
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.040
people gravitate towards collectibles. When I go to sell it,
110
00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:44.639
I will be able to name my price. And the
111
00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.800
perfect example of that in the world of collectibles has
112
00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.319
been every single t Too six Wagner that has ever sold.
113
00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.759
It's the only acid I can think of, No stocks,
114
00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.959
no commodities, not gold, not oil, not silver, not artwork.
115
00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:05.120
For every single time every unique Tto six card Tto
116
00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.920
six Wagner has sold, when that same card gets resold,
117
00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.920
it is sold for a higher price. Irrespective of the grade,
118
00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:16.600
whether it's beat to and is authentically graded or whether
119
00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.439
it's a PSA eight. They've all sold for more than
120
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:22.720
next time they've come up. And that's what's happening now.
121
00:06:22.879 --> 00:06:26.480
So on today's episode, we have the King of Collectibles.
122
00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.160
This man has sold over two billion dollars.
123
00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:30.639
Two and a half now.
124
00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:34.920
This man has sold over two and a half billion
125
00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.199
dollars worth of cards and collectibles, so much so that
126
00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:40.000
he has his own Netflix show.
127
00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:40.319
Now.
128
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:43.000
He's worked with Logan Paul. You've seen that for sixteen
129
00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.839
and a half million dollars for one Pokemon card. He's
130
00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:48.560
worked with Drake, He's worked with Joe Montana. The list
131
00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:50.959
goes on and on, and now, most importantly to us.
132
00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:54.879
He's a partner of Godsols. Welcome to the Godsoul Podcast.
133
00:06:54.920 --> 00:06:56.800
The man himself, the king of collectibles.
134
00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.399
Ken Golden, Red Beer, thank you for having me here.
135
00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:04.560
These ones a rapid fire, no explanation, no asterisk anything, Okay,
136
00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:07.399
long term investment? Are you taking an eighty six Flaer
137
00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.040
Jordan or a show Hey, rookie for the long term?
138
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.920
For the long term? Eighty six Jordan, eighty six Jordan?
139
00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.319
Okay? Vintage or modern cards as an investment?
140
00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:19.920
Vintage?
141
00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:22.040
Most overrated card in the market right now?
142
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.040
Any football quarterback out of this year's draft.
143
00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.120
Wow. Okay, most underrated card in the market right now.
144
00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:43.240
Nineteen fifties and sixties baseball cards that are not PSA
145
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.000
nine are better.
146
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:48.079
Okay. Who's the best investment in sports cards right now? Oh?
147
00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:56.360
God sho hail Tani Okay.
148
00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:00.639
Last rapid fire? One could one piece? Ever? Overtake Pokemon?
149
00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:00.839
No?
150
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:01.839
Never?
151
00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:06.800
No? What is Ken Golden's mount rushmore of trading cards?
152
00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:11.639
Uh? Teacher six, Honus Wagon. It's gonna be all sports
153
00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:14.199
because they're old. It's gonna be Tito six, Honus Wagner.
154
00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:20.240
It's going to be the nineteen fifty two tops Mickey Mantle.
155
00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:29.120
It is going to be the might not be all Sports?
156
00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.639
I get four right, Yeah, so baseball's represented. I'm gonna
157
00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:40.759
go a two thousand, two thousand and three exquisite Lebron
158
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:44.080
and I am going to put the Peakach you illustrator
159
00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:46.799
up there. Okay, so that since you said card not
160
00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:48.159
sports cards, yes, there you go.
161
00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:51.919
Okay, quick interruption to the podcast. We got a surprise giveaway.
162
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:53.639
We can't tell you exactly what it is, but it's
163
00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.840
the Golden Podcast. You know, it's special. Calm at your
164
00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:57.960
favorite part of the podcast. We're gonna pick one person
165
00:08:57.960 --> 00:08:59.960
to win. Here's the winner from the last one. Let's
166
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.240
back to the pod. The night of the Logan Paul auction,
167
00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:04.279
there's a whole entire production that you put on. Like
168
00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:06.480
I said, you have Guinness World Records there, you got
169
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.879
a whole audience. It's being streamed live. What's going on
170
00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.240
behind the scenes that night that nobody knows about?
171
00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:15.240
Well, first of all, what we did not know is
172
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:17.360
that the second bidder was in the room. I knew
173
00:09:17.720 --> 00:09:20.399
I had a aj Scaramochie who ended up winning the
174
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.720
card treasure Trove. They you know, I met with him
175
00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.200
and some members of his fund in New York a
176
00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.360
couple of weeks earlier to discuss you know, the card
177
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:37.039
and the auction, and he said, I'm worried about internet activity.
178
00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.279
I'm worried with the live stream. How bit busy it's
179
00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:40.919
going to be am I able to be in your
180
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:43.159
building that night, so if I have to get in
181
00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.480
bid manually through somebody, I can make sure I don't
182
00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:49.919
miss out. So but what really surprised me, you know,
183
00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:51.879
so that was one So he was in a room
184
00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:56.679
with one of my employees, you know, placing his bids
185
00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:58.960
and uh, you know, and then then I didn't see
186
00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:04.320
him join. But what was going on was really everything.
187
00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.320
I mean, we had one of the underbidders on the
188
00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.799
phone with Dave Ahriman, texting him while he's gonging. We
189
00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:15.879
had the individual group in the room that was placing
190
00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.039
their bids you know, right in front of me that
191
00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:22.279
nobody knew about. You know, we had a full production crew.
192
00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:24.240
This this is the first time we ever did a
193
00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:27.799
live YouTube broadcast. I mean, right, this was Logan's YouTube,
194
00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.919
but this was Golden's production. We had never done anything
195
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.960
like that, and never not on certainly not on that scale.
196
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.639
At all. So, It's just it was a very hectic night.
197
00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:45.919
I get very hyper during those nights. I'm sure I
198
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:48.120
was talking a mile a minute, and I think o'clock
199
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:50.919
in the morning Logan wanted to pack it in. I'm like, Logan,
200
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:52.519
I am more than twice your agent. I'm ready to
201
00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:52.960
keep going.
202
00:10:53.559 --> 00:10:56.159
And something you know you keep you and Jonathan keep
203
00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.960
talking about a lot is the business side of the card, right,
204
00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:01.320
But a lot of people actually talk about the passion
205
00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:05.120
behind a card. For example, Logan's talked about how he
206
00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.759
loved that card. But my question to all of this,
207
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:12.039
you know, she speak numbers, money, deal structure. Whatever. Is
208
00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.080
Logan Paul a real card collector or is he just
209
00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.279
a businessman that found out that cards is a business opportunity.
210
00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.679
I think Logan is a true collector. And here's why
211
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:24.399
I'm gonna I'm gonna let you all know. When you
212
00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:26.519
know when Logan used to live in la and I
213
00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.320
was at his house in twenty twenty one before he
214
00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:33.039
bought the illustrator, before he bought the BGS ten Charizard,
215
00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:35.159
when he was just opening boxes. I went in his
216
00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:41.200
house and look, it literally looked like an Amazon truck
217
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:45.639
making a delivery of Pokemon collectibles exploded inside his house.
218
00:11:46.120 --> 00:11:50.480
He had all of this Pokemon stuff scattered all over
219
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.679
the giant plushies like this, the seat you sit in
220
00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:59.200
the you know, came out with a charizard costume. Stuff
221
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:02.000
that is not worth any thing, but he loved it.
222
00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:07.080
He was able to rattle off every single name of
223
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.159
every single creature and what their powers are, and the
224
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.679
games he played and everything else. He'd like literally played
225
00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.799
the game and collected it as a kid, and that's
226
00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.879
what that's what got him into it. And in sports
227
00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:25.320
he has a passion, like he will be bidding on
228
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:28.639
something on Golden and he will call me and like
229
00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:32.320
whole like pissed off if he's outbid. And one of
230
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:35.120
the famous that I can now talk about because the
231
00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:41.279
winning bidder posted it on Instagram is one night Logan
232
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:47.399
was going for a Bob rossite and he didn't get it,
233
00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.480
and I'm like, I really I could, I would never
234
00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.519
do this, but I was like I felt like calling
235
00:12:53.559 --> 00:12:55.559
him up and saying, Logan, you don't know who's bidding
236
00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:59.120
against you, You're not gonna win Bro. And it was
237
00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.639
Drake who won it, and I wasn't able to say
238
00:13:01.639 --> 00:13:03.759
it and then Drake posted it and you know, it
239
00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:06.600
hanging up in his house and I'm like, okay, fine,
240
00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.320
Drake's letting everybody know he won. And now I'm able
241
00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.519
to tell the story. But he he has a real
242
00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:13.879
passion and he will say, hey, I'm looking for this,
243
00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:17.960
I just bought this Gretzky item. I'm looking for this
244
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.559
other similar type of item to go along with it.
245
00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:24.360
And it's a show piece. And you know you mentioned
246
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:26.919
he is you know, dinosaur fossils, right, I mean, and
247
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.279
this is my viewpoint of it. I did not grow
248
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:36.840
up you know, worshiping da Vinci and Picasso and Renoir,
249
00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:42.159
typical alternative collectible assets that people are used to seeing,
250
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.679
you know, at at the auction houses. The auction houses
251
00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.360
have been around for five hundred years, right, That was
252
00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:51.679
not my passion. Sports was my passion. So I collected
253
00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:56.879
sports cards and ventured into other sports collectibles. People, you know,
254
00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:01.600
and kids really from I would say, gen X down
255
00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:08.159
to Alpha's all. You know, they like what they like
256
00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:10.240
and that's what they want to collect. They didn't grow
257
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:14.039
up on I'm you know, I'm I'm passionate for art,
258
00:14:14.120 --> 00:14:17.840
or I'm passionate for wine or some of this other stuff.
259
00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:25.320
They want cards, they want memorabilia, primarily focused around sports
260
00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:26.679
and TCJ.
261
00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:29.080
You mentioned Drake. I was already gonna ask you about Drake.
262
00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.360
You've done some content with him. Drake and of course
263
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.240
a big collector as well. But I think a lot
264
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.879
of people out there want to know, is Drake a
265
00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.200
real collector? Or? Is Drake just in it for the money?
266
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.879
Okay? So Drake is not in it for the money, okay.
267
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.480
I would say that Drake is a real memorabilia collector
268
00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:51.519
on cards, He's a gambler. So the story with the
269
00:14:51.559 --> 00:14:55.159
Triple Logerman, and if anybody has not seen King of Collectibles,
270
00:14:55.559 --> 00:15:00.720
this is literally season one, episode one, for ten minutes
271
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:03.080
is Drake and I looking for this card. So we're
272
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:08.240
looking for this lebron triple logo man, and we didn't
273
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.519
hit it. We opened up probably a million dollars worth
274
00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:13.879
of cards. We didn't hit it, and he was bummed out.
275
00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:15.879
But we did get some open up some flea and
276
00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.519
got some Jordan Rookies and got some other good, you know,
277
00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:25.960
flawless cards. So I then got consigned. The owners of
278
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.600
the cards contacted me and cansigned the card. So they
279
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.759
hit it. So I'm at a sixers game when I
280
00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:36.000
was contacted with these guys and logging on WhatsApp. I
281
00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:41.360
shoot Drake a picture of me holding it, and he goes, damn,
282
00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.840
that was supposed to be ours. And I'm like, yeah,
283
00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:45.840
I said, it's going up for auction. Are you interested?
284
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:49.639
And he goes no, I'm it was only interested if
285
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.480
I could find it myself at a pack. So he
286
00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:56.320
likes the thrill and the chase of finding a card,
287
00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:58.799
but he's not somebody who's gonna lay I'd lay down,
288
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:01.440
you know, lay out one hundred grand or even three
289
00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.080
million dollars for an individual card to have it. However,
290
00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:09.440
you find him a great TUPAC item, you find him
291
00:16:09.559 --> 00:16:13.080
a great cultural item like Bob Ross, or you find
292
00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:16.519
him a great NBA item of a player he loves,
293
00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:18.000
we'll go all in and buy it.
294
00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.840
I believe it was with you and Logans. You spend
295
00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.360
thirty eight thousand dollars on a pack of old cigarettes
296
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:26.320
in hopes of finding a baseball card inside it? Yes,
297
00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.519
my question to and obviously it wasn't in there. My
298
00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.440
question to that is, would you spend another thirty eight
299
00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:35.279
thousand dollars in risk it to try to find a
300
00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:37.039
card inside of an old cigarette box.
301
00:16:37.639 --> 00:16:41.759
No, umm not. I would not open up. I would
302
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.639
spend thirty eight thousand dollars in a pack if you
303
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:47.879
told me, hey, let's let's go frigging nuts and let's
304
00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:51.679
buy a fifty three TOPS pack or a thirty three
305
00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.320
Goudy pack or fifty two. I don't think you can't
306
00:16:54.320 --> 00:16:56.519
get a fifty two Tops pack for that much, you know,
307
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:01.519
for that little but um, yep, I would definitely do it.
308
00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:05.599
But the problem is is at least then you know, hey,
309
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.599
I'm buying a pack of cards. I don't know what's inside,
310
00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.960
but I know there are cards inside. Going back to
311
00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:15.039
nineteen oh nine, we know that the cigarette box is
312
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.920
from the factory that produced the Tito Sick cards. We
313
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:21.400
know that it's from the exact time period because we
314
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.000
see the factory stamps, so we can pinpoint it. This
315
00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:28.400
is a factory. However, they produced baseball player cards, they
316
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:32.240
produced Flags of the World cards, and obviously we found
317
00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:34.799
out sometimes they just sold cigarettes in those packs, and
318
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:35.559
that was it.
319
00:17:35.480 --> 00:17:38.440
Got SOOL is expanding from a sneaker convention to the
320
00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.960
world's greatest culture festival with sneakers cards and collectibles presented
321
00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.359
by Golden Streetwear, Vintage and Luxury, all under one roof
322
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.039
in five inaugural cities this year, starting with New York City,
323
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.880
then Chicago, Tokyo, Los Angeles, and Miami. You do not
324
00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:56.759
want to miss these events. Golden will be at all
325
00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.559
of them in taking consignment and displaying some great stuff.
326
00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:01.759
We'll see you in those cities. Back to the pod,
327
00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.720
I have to ask you, there's an elephant in the
328
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:07.400
room in the card industry specifically, right there's all sorts
329
00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:09.559
of sealed wax that the price keeps going up and
330
00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:11.960
up right, and there's repacks, and there's breaking, and there's
331
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.079
all these things, and a lot of people who don't
332
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.839
understand the card industry, they'll ask myself or others in it, hey,
333
00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:19.480
what's this all about? Why does it work? How we're
334
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:21.759
things so expensive? And I think the elephant in the
335
00:18:21.799 --> 00:18:23.640
room that a lot of people don't talk about is
336
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:25.160
is the card industry a casino?
337
00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.319
Okay? So I would say, obviously anything that has to
338
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:34.960
do with individual cards is not right. I mean, if
339
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.559
you're going out and you're buying a a Lebron James
340
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:41.279
Rookie card graded in a nine, you're buying a lebron
341
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.759
James Rookie. I think people are referring probably more to
342
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.400
you know, the stuff that's going on and whatnot, and
343
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.880
the spinning wheels and the people saying that they, you know,
344
00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.200
the day they were dragged into brakes and they different
345
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.839
odds and this and that. You know. I can see
346
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.720
how some people looking at that might think, hey, is
347
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:06.680
this a form of gambling. My viewpoint, somebody going into
348
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:11.079
a trading card store buying a box of cards is
349
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.160
buying a box of cards. Absolutely not gambling. It's anything
350
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.440
like any other type of you know, blind packaging, as
351
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.160
long as people know, you know, what they're doing. Like
352
00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:24.279
for example, Tops this year did a promotion with nineteen
353
00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:26.960
of their vintage cards, including a fifty two Topsmickey Mantle,
354
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.559
which we happen to have, you know, be selling the
355
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.079
redemption card for in our Golden one hundred, and they
356
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:34.640
picked nineteen classic Tops cards throughout the year, and they
357
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:39.240
scattered those nineteen redemption cards throughout their product. They clearly
358
00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:43.480
communicated we're selling millions of cards. There's nineteen of these
359
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:47.079
redemption cards. I think anybody going into a store or
360
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.480
buying that I don't think that's gambling. I don't think
361
00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.720
that's a casino at all. I think that it could
362
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:58.039
be off putting and offensive. The way that on certain
363
00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:02.759
live streams people hand the way they break make it
364
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:07.000
a carnival type atmosphere or casino type atmosphere, And I
365
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.519
think that could be off putting, and that sets a
366
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:14.279
bad example. And it literally is less than one percent
367
00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:15.319
of the hobby.
368
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.680
Got it? Okay? So let's talk about opening this wax. Yeah,
369
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.960
you are someone that has open packs and break broken
370
00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:25.200
sealed wax with Drake, with Logan, Paul, plenty of celebrities.
371
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.680
You've spent millions of dollars opening up sealed wax. Yes,
372
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:33.880
is opening sealed wax with today's prices profitable at all?
373
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:38.960
Look? I think that if you're looking at it purely
374
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:42.920
from what is the expected value? To use the poker term, right,
375
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:45.920
that hopefully has gained more wide stream. But what is
376
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:49.880
the expected value if I buy a brand new box
377
00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.279
manufactured by anybody, let's just say anything from twenty to
378
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.720
twenty one through twenty twenty six, any of the key sports.
379
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:01.720
If I pay one thousand dollars for that box, my
380
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:06.519
expected value in many cases as individual cards is probably
381
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.359
less than fifty percent less than five hundred dollars. So
382
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.200
people do it because they enjoy seeing what they get,
383
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.000
and people do it because there is the chance you
384
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.200
can get something that's ten thousand or twenty five thousand
385
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.759
or fifty thousand dollars out of it. However, when it
386
00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:28.720
is it's also it's a form of entertainment. What does
387
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.599
going to a ball game or a family of four
388
00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:36.119
or with tickets and everything else, what does that cost? Right?
389
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:38.799
I mean, somebody's dropping half a million dollars for a
390
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.279
courtside seat at the Masison Square Garden for the Knicks finals, right,
391
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:47.039
So you have to look at it. Trading cards are
392
00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:51.440
a collectible. It is a form of entertainment. And to me,
393
00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:56.319
it's not like, hey, I am laying out five hundred dollars,
394
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.680
and I realize that in terms of pure dollars and
395
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.160
cents when I'm done, if I don't get the right mix,
396
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:04.960
you know, I might get quote unquote less than half
397
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:10.200
the value individually. You know. That said, I'm a huge
398
00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:16.119
proponent of all of the currently licensed card manufacturers being
399
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:21.319
able to provide products where people are not worried that hey,
400
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:22.720
I'm gonna open this up, and as soon as I
401
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.119
open it, you know, I'm going to be negative. I
402
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:30.359
think that the entire repack business exists because people are
403
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:34.279
looking for an alternative where they can get potentially a
404
00:22:34.359 --> 00:22:36.680
better return. If if you sell a repack for five
405
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:41.160
hundred dollars and you say your guaranteed value is four
406
00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:44.039
hundred dollars, that's your guaranteed minimum out of this based
407
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:47.119
on you know, any type of you know app whether
408
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:50.000
it's you know, card ladder or market movers or anything
409
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.920
else that has a selling point.
410
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:53.160
Right.
411
00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:57.160
The newer card manufacturers don't do that, and I think
412
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:01.160
that they let repacks become a billion dollar business.
413
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:03.799
Okay, I want to hear your too. You know you
414
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.400
talked about the breaking the boxes as well as you
415
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.680
know it's an investment rather than actually, you know, just
416
00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:13.680
throwing away money too. Fold A question for you, what's
417
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:15.839
the most expensive box you've ever opened?
418
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:19.400
I would say the most expensive box has got to
419
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.400
be an eighty. When I broke eighty six flier boxes
420
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.119
with Drake, they were about three hundred thousand dollars.
421
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.680
A box, three hundred time and were war the most
422
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:33.599
expensive box ever broke broke was that night with Logan Paul,
423
00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.759
because we broke a first edition Pokemon box, which at
424
00:23:37.799 --> 00:23:42.640
the time that night we had sold one on the
425
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.799
auction for over four hundred thousand dollars, so that was
426
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.359
the most expensive.
427
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.319
And out of that box, what was your return on investment?
428
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.480
I'd have to look and well it was all park. Yeah,
429
00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:57.920
par ballpark. It was six figures. It was six figures
430
00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:01.039
because of the cards that were pulled, because you got
431
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.279
all the holofoils. You didn't get a cha rezard, but
432
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.920
it was probably fifty of that.
433
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.839
I just wanted to hear that because obviously you guys
434
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:12.720
talked about Okay, there's an upside of you know, you
435
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:15.160
could make upwards to a million, two million, three million
436
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.240
dollars about one box, but there is the reality of
437
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.759
opening up boxes like that.
438
00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:20.079
Yeah.
439
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.559
Look, look, bottom line is most boxes, you know, if
440
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:28.480
you're looking at it purely, what do the individual card
441
00:24:28.599 --> 00:24:31.200
values add up the day you get them, the day
442
00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:34.160
you get them, what do they add up to versus
443
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:37.240
what the box cost. Most times you open in an
444
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:44.359
open box, the individual value will be less. That's basic math.
445
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.279
What's the biggest l you've ever seen in the card market.
446
00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.319
Starting a business is difficult no matter what it is.
447
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.440
It takes a lot of work and it's great to
448
00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:55.160
have a partner like Shopify that can just make that
449
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:58.559
so much easier. They have AI and ready to use
450
00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:00.519
templates just to make your store I feel like it's
451
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.839
your brand, and it's just so easy to use and
452
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.160
have a really clean and professional looking website. When we
453
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.160
shifted our focus from being in the little details to
454
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:11.839
actually building and focusing on the business just made the
455
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:13.960
world of a difference. And Shopify has all the tools
456
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:15.440
that let you do that, but it just makes it
457
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.920
so easy for customers to be able to buy just
458
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.240
in one click. All you need in business is to
459
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:22.920
just start with that idea, pick the right partners and
460
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.039
grow from there. And thanks to our friends at Shopify,
461
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:27.519
they're giving you a free trial to sign up right now.
462
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.759
Go to shopify dot com slash gotsoul. Like I said,
463
00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:33.079
go right now to shopify dot com slash god Soul.
464
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:36.599
One last time, that is shopify dot com slash got Soul.
465
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.319
Go check it out. An outfit doesn't stop with just
466
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:40.319
great sneakers or jeans or a tea. You got to
467
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.400
mix the jewelry in and now, thanks to our friends
468
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:44.839
at GLD, you can do that and you can save
469
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.279
forty percent off, which I'll tell you about in a
470
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:48.400
little bit. We got the nice little diamond tennis bracelet
471
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.519
and everything is really well made, hand put together. You've
472
00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:54.960
seen it worn by Justin bieber Malik nighbors all sorts
473
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.599
of celebrities for a reason. GLD does it right. Fifty
474
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.720
thousand and five star reviews and just really great quality.
475
00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:02.319
And thanks to our friends of GLD. Like I said,
476
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:04.359
you're getting forty percent off. All you gotta use is
477
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.200
code gotsoul at GLD. Like I said, that is code
478
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:10.079
gootsoul at GLD dot COM's website. When they ask where
479
00:26:10.079 --> 00:26:11.559
you heard about it, please tell us support the show.
480
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.200
Let them know that God Soul sent you. I got mine,
481
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:16.839
You go get yours. Shout out to our friends at GLD.
482
00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:18.279
Let's get back to the episode. Ooh.
483
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:31.799
I would say, hmmm, I think the who ever Boughton
484
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.799
Desion Williamson logo man who's got to be up there?
485
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.400
That's got to be a ninety five percent loss over
486
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:43.720
three quarters of a million dollars. I think the God
487
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.359
I wouldn't go for how much did it go for
488
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:47.880
I'm trying to think how much, Oh, the biggest loss
489
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.200
by far, by far, this is not this is not
490
00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.759
even a close second. But it's such an obscure item
491
00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:55.200
your viewers may not know, but they will know the subject.
492
00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.400
Babe Ruth, a Babe Ruth Baltimore News Ruth card old
493
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:06.680
for eight million dollars and a few years later, when
494
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:11.039
there was less hype about the card sold for four
495
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.480
point two or four point three at Heritage, with the
496
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.759
owner taking probably a four million dollar loss. That is
497
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:22.119
that will be for a very long time, the biggest
498
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:26.000
loss ever taken on any individual card individual sport, TCG,
499
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:27.359
non TCJ.
500
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:28.960
And maybe on the flip side, and wait, by the way,
501
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:29.319
and that was.
502
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:31.559
A nineteen fourteen Baltimore News Ruth card.
503
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:34.079
Just for clarification, cool of course, And I want to ask,
504
00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:35.880
on the flip side of that question, what's the biggest
505
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.319
come up you've ever seen in the card world.
506
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:45.200
In terms of gross dollars? It would have to be
507
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:50.680
it would be very close between Logan Paul paying five
508
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:52.960
point two and then so one for sixteen and a half,
509
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.960
as well as the individual who paid fifty thousand dollars
510
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.480
for a nineteen fifty two Tops Mickey Mantle that ended
511
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.640
up selling at twelve and a half million dollars. Crazy. Yeah,
512
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:08.680
obviously there's a number. There's a big difference. There's a
513
00:28:08.799 --> 00:28:11.920
forty year difference in the one, right, and there's a
514
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:13.640
four year difference in the other.
515
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:17.200
Okay, So speaking of the manufacturers, like you're talking about right,
516
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.599
and you're talking about Repacks, and we speak about Tops.
517
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:24.119
Tops now might not have a monopoly, but pretty close
518
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:26.880
at least in the sports card industry, right, And I
519
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.119
want to ask you about Tops fanatics. These things are
520
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.240
obviously tied together. Right. We come from the sneaker world
521
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:35.599
and the sneaker background, right traditionally, and now we're coming
522
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:37.880
into the card world. And one thing, the biggest critique
523
00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.839
we've seen in our industry has been at Nike, and
524
00:28:40.880 --> 00:28:43.480
it's been that Nike's oversaturating sneakers and it's hurt the
525
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:47.440
market and all these things. It's Tops oversaturating the card market.
526
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:52.599
Interestingly, this is going to be an interesting and interesting answer. Interestingly,
527
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:58.839
not yet, which is amazing what I think they are doing.
528
00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:02.160
But I think they're cop other manufacturer manufacturers before them.
529
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:05.200
Is I do think that they are making it too confusing.
530
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:08.720
Let me give you an example, and I'm not talking
531
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:10.640
too confusing, from when I was a kid and there
532
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:12.559
was only one series in one set and you knew
533
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:16.079
what you were getting. I'm talking too confusing. From two
534
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.680
thousand and nine tops right when I sold the Mike
535
00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:24.640
Trout Superfractor one of one. Right, it was the one
536
00:29:24.680 --> 00:29:27.039
of one super Fractor. Everybody knew it was the best card.
537
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:31.160
There was no question. Now, in the same product, you
538
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:34.920
can have twenty one of one's of these rookies, right.
539
00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:40.839
You can have spin off products that are the same product,
540
00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:44.680
you know, like like Sapphire, which is basically, you know,
541
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:49.440
an upgraded version of Chrome. Okay, and you can have
542
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.119
a one of one in there, and it confuses the collector.
543
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:57.920
Is this the best card or is this worth more
544
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:00.119
than the Super? Is this worth less with the in
545
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:02.839
the Super And I think with the debut patches and
546
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.079
the debut jerseys and stuff like that, it's kind of
547
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:08.400
a solve in some ways for that because hey, you know,
548
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:11.200
this is the debut jersey card. There's only one. There's
549
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.599
not going to be multiple of this player in different products,
550
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:18.039
and that helps. But I do think that the parallels,
551
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:20.880
and the number of parallels and the number of one
552
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:25.440
on ones one of ones have has gone haywire and
553
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.119
lends to market confusion. And what it also does it
554
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:34.200
creates a pattern that except for certain tried and true brands,
555
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:38.400
there are certain cards that when they come out and
556
00:30:38.440 --> 00:30:42.000
when they sell individually six months later, no matter how
557
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:46.039
good that player's performance, does you know is the value
558
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:49.400
is going to go down because somebody paid a high
559
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.240
price and then seven different alternatives to that came out.
560
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.599
Interesting? Okay, So could Tops end up like Nike if
561
00:30:56.599 --> 00:30:58.599
they ramp up their production the way that we've seen it.
562
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:03.640
If you're saying, you know, what's the market cap of
563
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:04.759
Nike today? Right?
564
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:07.920
Percentage wise? It's down quite a bit, it's still a
565
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:08.680
huge market cap.
566
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.079
Okay, Yeah, So I mean I think I think if
567
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:13.519
there are terms of value, I think Tops would love that.
568
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.759
But no, in terms of could it be oversaturated if
569
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.680
they don't watch it, could they confuse customers? Could there
570
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.759
be too much product produced? Absolutely? Do they have to
571
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:24.839
watch it? Do they have to protect the baby? Do
572
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:27.720
they have to realize we have a twenty year license,
573
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:31.039
we have a twenty year guarantee. We need to have
574
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:35.440
a slow ramp and sometimes decreases just randomly without even discussing.
575
00:31:35.720 --> 00:31:37.759
Maybe third year, Hey, third year, we're making a lot
576
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:40.279
less across the board, and second year just just to
577
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:44.240
screw with the crowd and make it more more collectible. Absolutely.
578
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:49.079
You know, if if eBay allowed me to be a
579
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.000
consultant to Tops, you know, I would definitely be a
580
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.519
difficult that I'd write. I'd write them a book. Hey,
581
00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:56.640
this is what you have to do big picture. This
582
00:31:56.759 --> 00:31:59.400
is what you have to avoid big picture, because let's
583
00:31:59.400 --> 00:32:04.200
face it, their success it becomes everybody's success. We all
584
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:08.000
want them. People may make bet fanatics, but reality, if
585
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.960
you're in this business, if you're in the hobby, you
586
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.799
want them to put out a good product. Of course,
587
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:14.680
you want the product to be successful. You want the
588
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:17.640
hobby to grow and demand to grow. So you know
589
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:20.119
we all should be, you know, helping them out in
590
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:20.559
that regard.
591
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.240
We need to ask you, there's so much money coming
592
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:25.880
into the industry right now, into the cart and collectible's industry,
593
00:32:26.319 --> 00:32:29.200
and there's a lot of bad actors, right there's just
594
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.799
a lot of scamming and all these things. How frequent
595
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:33.759
and how bad are the scams and all the bad
596
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:36.200
actors and the scammers in the card industry right now.
597
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.400
How big is that problem?
598
00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:42.319
Well, if you're buying things that are not authenticated, we're
599
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:46.519
not graded, it can be a big problem. You know,
600
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.839
You've got problems of okay, am I buying a box
601
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:54.799
of cards that somebody somehow searched, right, which is why
602
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.960
you have the authenticators who wrap the old product, and
603
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.000
you've got you know, the Tampa Resistant for what people
604
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:06.680
do now you buy trading cards. I mean there are
605
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:13.079
probably hundreds of thousands of counterfeit nineteen eighty six Flaer
606
00:33:13.160 --> 00:33:16.319
Michael Jordan cards that are somewhere. You know, one guy
607
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:19.960
may have five thousand. He's trying to pass off every day.
608
00:33:20.119 --> 00:33:22.960
I have somebody send me like which is why when
609
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.200
I got the Wagner, I didn't think it was real.
610
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:28.400
Because the guy said it's ungraded and nobody's ever seen it.
611
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.839
I'm like, oh, it's fake. Before I saw it. As
612
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.480
soon as I saw a picture, I knew, oh my god,
613
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.799
this is good. But people take old, old cards that
614
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:39.119
are reprints and say reprint, and they they put it
615
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:42.079
through a washing machine or they age it and then
616
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:44.759
they scratch off the reprint and they try and pass
617
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:46.440
it off. So that is a big thing. So you
618
00:33:46.519 --> 00:33:48.599
absolutely have to be aware. And if you think it's
619
00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:54.279
difficult in cards in autographs, it's even worse. But in
620
00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.319
terms of getting a trading card, buying a trading card
621
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:02.680
graded from one of the main your companies, I don't
622
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.359
I don't think you've got any issue at all. I
623
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:07.240
mean I would say, God, I don't want to say
624
00:34:07.279 --> 00:34:09.760
ninety nine percent accurate. I want to say probably out
625
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:13.320
of five thousand, four thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine
626
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.079
times out of five thousand, they get it right, like
627
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:16.119
a company like PSA.
628
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:16.800
Thank god.
629
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:20.039
Yeah, wow, I think something that I agree with and
630
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:21.840
a lot of people, like a lot of collectors, would
631
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:23.960
agree with. But obviously from an out of touch effective
632
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.159
it may not make sense. But why do you banned
633
00:34:26.239 --> 00:34:30.119
grading companies that are newer or younger than five years
634
00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:34.360
old of being established from being auctioned off their cards
635
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:35.920
with Golden Sure?
636
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:40.119
So you know it it varies from company to company.
637
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:41.920
You know, we want to make sure that you know
638
00:34:41.920 --> 00:34:45.159
and we we like we accept you know, PSA, we
639
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:49.760
accept uh, you know cc CGC, we accept Beckett, we
640
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:53.400
accept SGA. You know, we we've added tag to the
641
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:58.559
list as well. But you know there are what happens
642
00:34:58.639 --> 00:35:00.719
is and it happened during the first ps SAY backlog,
643
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:03.400
and it will happen again now the PSAH has another
644
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:09.559
shutdown because of the backlog. Is these backlogs force you know,
645
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:12.679
a big demand issue where people with lower end cards
646
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.760
have no place to go to get graded. So entrepreneurs
647
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:18.679
out there say, hey, I'm going to go buy a machine,
648
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:20.719
open up my own grading card out of my out
649
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:23.199
of my garage, and they put a name on the
650
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:25.000
company and they could get a label and they start
651
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:28.280
getting a graded. They have no experience, they have no background.
652
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.320
They're doing it as a quick makeubuck scheme and a
653
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.159
lot of people buy into it and they may send
654
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:36.039
them you know, and get it graded, but they don't understand, Hey,
655
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:40.159
this is not a company that guarantees you know what
656
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:42.599
they're grading. This is not a company that has an
657
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:46.159
authenticity guarantee. This is not a company that's a track record.
658
00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:48.960
We you know, they may grade something a six, and
659
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:51.320
you know, they may grade something a nine and somebody
660
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.679
else make grade of the six, or they may not
661
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.440
even know what's fake or what's not fake and unfortunately
662
00:35:57.480 --> 00:36:00.880
great counterfeit items not realizing it. So it's really we're
663
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:05.800
really protecting our you know, our customers. But in reality,
664
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.360
if you look at the grading companies we accept, it
665
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.400
is over ninety nine percent of the graded market. I
666
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.920
mean you add up those four companies, five companies, they
667
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:17.280
grade ninety nine percent of every car that's out there.
668
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.280
So it doesn't it doesn't affect affect any anybody's business.
669
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:23.159
Really, So I do have a question about our partnership,
670
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:25.800
So God Soul Golden Official partners. Now, Golden is the
671
00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:28.519
presenting company to face essentially of cards and collectibles that
672
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.360
got sold and us expanding from a sneaker convention to
673
00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:34.119
now a culture festival. In my opinion, it actually embodies
674
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:36.079
a lot of what you've done at Golden. You've come
675
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.960
from a more cards and collectibles in the sports world
676
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.440
background and brought all these different things in this room.
677
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:44.519
We got baseball stuff, we got Michael Jackson's glove sitting
678
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:47.679
over there, Bob Ross painting, you name it. A lot
679
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:50.199
of people originally thought that you can only stick to
680
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:52.280
one thing and only one aspect of culture, and you
681
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.840
only could build a community there. What do you say
682
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.320
to that, And where do you think the hobby and
683
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:58.920
just in general collecting is going with all the crossover
684
00:36:58.960 --> 00:36:59.519
that we're seeing.
685
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.800
Oh, this is there's a ton for you know. Okay, So,
686
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:05.800
first of all, either that may have been true in
687
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.880
the dark ages of collecting, it's not true now it's
688
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:12.480
completely false. You know, we have you know, I have
689
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.559
the same people that are going for a two million
690
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:21.440
dollar Pokemon card that are buying show Hao tiny cards.
691
00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:27.320
And I mean one individual in particular Comic Books Ultimate Collection.
692
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.599
I sold one of his Pokemon cards recently for one
693
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.880
point eight million dollars. He has Batman number one and
694
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:39.360
Superman number one in high grade. Wow, he has He
695
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.039
was an underbitter when I sold a Kobe Bryant jersey
696
00:37:43.079 --> 00:37:45.239
for three point six million dollars. And he's got a
697
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.840
banger collection of vintage cards, vintage baseball cards from the
698
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:51.440
turn of the century, the turn of the twentieth century,
699
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:53.760
not the turn of the twenty first century. So and
700
00:37:54.079 --> 00:37:57.280
at Golden you know, people say, oh, we started out
701
00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.239
of sports, we started as memorabilia. But if you look
702
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:02.320
at it, you know, look at comic books. We are
703
00:38:02.360 --> 00:38:05.679
probably the second largest seller auction house of comics in
704
00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:10.039
the world. We are probably the largest seller of general
705
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:13.239
pop culture in the world. And even though it may
706
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:17.280
only be let's say, ten percent of our business, when
707
00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:19.320
you're doing a half a billion dollars or more, it's
708
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:23.559
fifty million dollars. Yeah. So my vision for the company is,
709
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:26.719
you know, setting aside the classic art and that type
710
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:29.440
of stuff, and probably cars because it's a different license,
711
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:33.599
but you know, I want to build all areas of collectibles.
712
00:38:33.679 --> 00:38:35.960
We're going to be doing a watch auction later this year.
713
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:38.599
We've got a big historical auction. We're going to be
714
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:42.880
doing sneaker dedicated auctions. So to me, you know, anything
715
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.199
that you know is collectibles, and guess what, we push
716
00:38:46.239 --> 00:38:49.039
it out to everybody because you don't know who may
717
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:52.440
be your biggest Pokemon buyer that said, oh wow, you
718
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.599
know that's you know, that's a cool comic book, or
719
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:59.599
I can buy George Washington, or I can buy show Haotanic.
720
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:01.599
I got ask you, what are you most excited about
721
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:02.639
in collectibles right now?
722
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:06.360
I'm excited about, like, honestly, first of all, everything, but
723
00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:09.400
second of all the fact that what I have done
724
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:12.239
for years, you know, and I started as like a
725
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.440
little kid in my basement where nobody knew what I
726
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.599
was doing because nobody was you know, collecting, and nobody
727
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:20.559
was saving this stuff. It seems that the world has
728
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.239
gravitated towards it. And even though everybody may value something differently,
729
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:27.880
like in the Middle East, you know, they're really big
730
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:32.239
on Pokemon. Okay, they're really big on TCG, maybe not
731
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:37.679
so much, you know, basketball and baseball. And in Asia
732
00:39:37.719 --> 00:39:41.840
they're really big on basketball and Pokemon and and baseball,
733
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:46.159
you know. But it seems all throughout the world everybody
734
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:50.840
is understanding the value and the underappreciated asset that is collectibles.
735
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.199
To me, it's a way every collectible is a piece
736
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.119
of time. It's like capturing history and it's owning a
737
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:02.360
cultural moment every you know, even the lower lower end
738
00:40:02.440 --> 00:40:05.360
items like somebody goes out and buys a PSA one
739
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:08.280
nineteen sixty eight tops Mickey mante Hey, they own the
740
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:13.679
original Mickey Manto card that's sixty years old. So I
741
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:16.000
just love the fact that it's finally getting it to do,
742
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:20.199
it's getting appreciation, and that every week it seems that
743
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:26.719
people were discovering new lines of collectibles. If somebody mentioned
744
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:30.599
manga to you six months ago, nobody would know what
745
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:33.199
the hell they're talking about. Now I'm running a TCG
746
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:37.039
and manga auction where we've got books and collectibles that
747
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:38.840
are selling for hundreds of thousands of dollars.
748
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:40.599
Tend to wrap it up, we got to give your flowers,
749
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:43.760
my friend. You have done so much for the card hobby,
750
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:46.039
the collectibles hobby, and now to be a partner of ours.
751
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:48.760
I want to say above all, obviously you've built an
752
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.039
extravagant business. You have some great people who work for you,
753
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:55.880
Your building and still building a monster. However, the number
754
00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:57.599
one thing that you've kept at the core of what
755
00:40:57.639 --> 00:40:59.559
you've done, and you've been doing this with your dad,
756
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:03.440
you know, rest is soul for decades, right, is the love.
757
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:06.639
You've kept the love for collecting at the core of
758
00:41:06.679 --> 00:41:09.719
everything you've done. And you've kept storytelling and the power
759
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:11.800
of the story. And why are these items all worth
760
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.599
what they're worth? At the core of what it is
761
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.480
and it's the story and that's what goes into it.
762
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.599
And there's a lot of people in this market right
763
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:21.119
now that are doing this for the money, of course,
764
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.239
and I know for a fact that even if money
765
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:26.360
wasn't involved this would be what you were doing, because
766
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:28.039
I know that you love it and we feel the
767
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:29.840
same way with what we're doing, and it's such an
768
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:31.559
honor to call you a partner of ours. We are
769
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:33.880
so excited to do more with you. And to wrap
770
00:41:33.880 --> 00:41:35.559
it up, the last question I do have for you
771
00:41:35.679 --> 00:41:37.519
is you have millions of people who love what you do.
772
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:39.480
You have millions of people who watch you on Netflix
773
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:41.480
all these things. You have kids who are starting their
774
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:45.320
own card collections, on card business. What's the one message
775
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:48.159
you have Your camera's right there for the millions of
776
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:50.599
fans back home that love Golden.
777
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:56.639
First, I appreciate you loving what we do. I do
778
00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:58.679
do it as a passion. It's the only way I've
779
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:01.920
ever made money in my life. And if you are
780
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.400
getting startedlinely give you one piece of advice that was
781
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:06.559
not mentioned on this podcast, and the people do not
782
00:42:06.719 --> 00:42:10.880
mention often enough. The number one thing besides information that
783
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.000
you can do if you're building a collection or trying
784
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.400
to build a business is bank roll management.
785
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:18.000
There you go, Ken, Thanks so much for doing it.
786
00:42:18.039 --> 00:42:19.559
I'm so excited to see you again soon.
787
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.480
Thank you much for reutely