Women's Sleep, explained | Dr Sarah Gilchrist | Episode 31

WEBVTT
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:05.839
Hello and welcome back to the Go Form podcast with myself Sarah and today joining me I have Sarah Gilchrist.
00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:06.719
So welcome Sarah.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:08.080
Morning, thanks for having me.
00:00:08.320 --> 00:00:16.879
Well thanks for coming and we've got a good talk going on today because Sarah is bringing out a book called The Essential Guide to Women's Sleep, which is out on October the 21st.
00:00:17.039 --> 00:00:25.920
And sleep's obviously a really important topic for everybody as it's essential in helping to optimise recovery from training and performance, and it's also where it allows those physiological adaptations.
00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:36.799
And we also know that if you get a lack of sleep, you can then affect having like illnesses, you might end up getting injuries off the back of them, and actually, it seemed to be that it happens more often in women than it does in males.
00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:39.200
So, from that point of view, let's go to the expert.
00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:42.079
And um, Sarah One, congratulations on writing a book.
00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:44.640
And I've read the book, and it is a really good read.
00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:50.320
And what made you kind of want to write a book about sleep and obviously especially link it to women's sleep reading?
00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:51.920
There was lots of reasons really.
00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:55.520
I started working for myself, having worked in elite sport similar to yourself.
00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:58.079
I was supporting athletes as a physiologist.
00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:03.679
Um, and my doctorate was in sleep and athletic performance, and I'd worked a lot with female athletes.
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:16.319
And when I started working for myself, I was putting articles on LinkedIn, and I was, you know, finding information I wanted to get out there, but I was getting a bit frustrated in terms of you weren't necessarily reaching your audience doing that.
00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:24.959
People can cut and paste articles on LinkedIn, and so I decided no, I'm just going to consolidate everything, all of the knowledge, and put it in a book.
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:35.519
And then when originally it was a book on sleep, and then I was like, well, talking to colleagues and a very good friend and colleague was like, There are lots of books on sleep, there are no books on women's sleep.
00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:42.239
There might be books about insomnia and women, or you know, but nothing really on the life cycle of women's sleep.
00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:58.239
Um, and so I was lucky that the the publishers, Jessica Kingsley, their audience is healthcare practitioners who I'd spent a career talking to and working with, and so it became a natural evolution of how the book came together and and who the who it was for.
00:01:58.480 --> 00:01:59.680
Nice, that sounds great.
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:04.159
And when we talk about sleep and the sleep cycle, how you know how does that work?
00:02:04.239 --> 00:02:06.319
Like how would you describe that to people?
00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:17.039
Um essentially the headlines are that you have a 90-minute sleep cycle that you you you cycle through throughout the night, and that encompasses four areas of sleep, if you like.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:41.199
You have your your lighter stages of sleep, stages one and two, a deeper stage of sleep, stage three, which is a critical, they're all critical stages of sleep, but that's when sort of the memory consolidation, protein synthesis, growth hormones released, a lot of the the demands of being awake, the wear and tear of being awake, the rejuvenation of for that is is happens in that stage of sleep.
00:02:41.360 --> 00:03:04.719
And then you have your stage four sleep, which is often called your dream sleep, your your REM sleep, your rapid eye movement sleep, and that is linked to our emotional stability, so positive consolidation of emotions, and so we cycle through that throughout the night, and that's why really having a sleep routine is important so that you can maximize the amount of sleep cycles you get during the night.
00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.680
So your quality of sleep is optimal.
00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:08.319
That's good.
00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:09.199
No, that's great.
00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.319
And how would you say the sleep cycle can be affected?
00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:22.319
Like what things you know, we there's a lot of talk obviously around mobile phones and the lighting of them, um, temperature of the room, like what kind of things would you say generally can affect the sleep?
00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:39.599
The first thing is about giving yourself the opportunity to get good sleep, so that can impact on the cycle because you might shortchange yourself by getting to sleep too late too often or getting up too early too often, so you're not necessarily maximising that ability to get to get the full sleep cycle as much as you can.
00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:40.000
Yeah.
00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:43.759
Um, and also things like alcohol can affect our sleep.
00:03:43.840 --> 00:04:10.719
We know that it even a small amount amount of alcohol can impact the REM part of the sleep cycle, which I said earlier is linked to our emotional control, so you can start to see, particularly in women, when you start to think of the different stages of life, you know, if you've got anxiety or you've got depression, you've got perimenopause, and then alcohol, and then poor quality sleep, you can see how it all interacts and day-to-day quality of life is affected.
00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:11.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:04:11.919 --> 00:04:16.160
And would you say there's any other things which might kind of affect the sleep pattern?
00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:36.800
Certainly um, just in terms of getting that opportunity to get good sleep, so yeah, the like the regular routine of sleep, so whether that's illness or um stress related, something we know, mental health and sleep have a reciprocal relationship, so it could be that you know something's happening in that area and you need support and that.
00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:48.800
So usually it's things around that the you know, having a pattern with your sleep, having a regular routine, and if that's disrupted, then that impacts on the quality of your sleep architecture, the sleep cycle.
00:04:48.959 --> 00:05:00.319
No, absolutely, and I think you're right in what you're saying with like the stresses, because especially as a female from when I speak to my female friends anyway, we always say, you know, we lie down at bed at night, and our other halves generally tend to fall asleep pretty quickly.
00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.160
Whereas in our heads, we're constantly like, have I done the lunch for school the next day?
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:05.360
Is the school stuff ready?
00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:06.800
Is the peeking ready?
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:08.959
Have we sorted out the birthday party?
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.120
And our minds are constantly ticking over.
00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:18.079
Whereas generally our partners tend to be fast asleep and our brains are still going, and it takes us a lot longer to switch off.
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:27.199
So, you know, it is interesting from that point of view, and like you say, that's some stresses which might be going on through people's brains, which can then have that knock-on effect on getting to sleep.
00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:49.360
Yeah, certainly for women, it can be an issue, particularly the sandwich generation if you've got a young family and older parents, and if you're working as well, you know, and like you say, it often falls that invisible load can often fall to women, not in all cases, but the majority of the time it you know it seems to be the case, and that's why I say in the book, it's not just hormone transitions that can affect women's sleep.
00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:59.279
Yeah, there is actually you know, it could be job-related, but that this whole caring role that we have can definitely impact on sleep.
00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:00.480
No, that's amazing.
00:06:00.560 --> 00:06:04.800
And you know, is there other things that you've touched on that hormone stuff from a female point of view?
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:12.160
If we look at like a woman or a female throughout their life, like how does that kind of get affected in sleep patterns?
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:18.319
You know, from a young age, they may be going through puberty to you know, menopause or perimenopause and menopause.
00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:24.000
Yeah, the whole way so biology isn't really a woman's friend in relation to sleep when you look at the hormone transitions.
00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:32.240
From as soon as adolescence kicks in, there is a difference in gender sleep because of the ovarian hormones, estrogen progesterone.
00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:49.439
Obviously, uh a woman or a young girl at that age will start to have her menstrual period, menstrual cycle, and that certainly has an interaction with sleep, whether it's pain related or heavy bleeding during the actual period, or perhaps it's premenstrual symptoms that you know are impacting on sleep.
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.839
And then you work through and there's fertility.
00:06:51.920 --> 00:07:19.839
We know that there's a relationship with fertility in sleep, not conclusive evidence, but certainly if you think of lifestyle and stress and trying to conceive, there's there's an association there, and then also then pregn pregnancy, another huge hormone transition in a woman's life, you know, and it doesn't tend to be hormonal factors during the pregnancy that affect the sleep, it's more the mechanical, anatomical changes that were or it, and you know, even also some of the early symptoms.
00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:34.399
If you've got morning sickness, which is a misnomer because it can hit at any time of day, and um you know, so that that obviously can impact sleep or whether you're uncomfortable, third trimester, you know, the usual symptoms that come with it.
00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.959
And I've gone into detail in the book about it.
00:07:37.120 --> 00:08:01.120
Um, but then also as you go through, you've got postpartum, that phase, the newborn phase, and then parenting itself, you know, um impacting on sleep, and then you move into perimenopause, you know, in your early 40s, sometimes earlier, and it can last, you know, the symptoms of perimenopause, the overarching symptom that people report, as well as brain fog, is poor sleep.
00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:01.519
Yeah.
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:13.839
Um, so if you think the symptoms of perimenopause can start in your early 40s, but actual menopause, the 12-month cessation of periods, is usually in the UK typically around 52.
00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:14.240
Yeah.
00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:19.759
So you could be 10-12 years experiencing some problems with your sleep.
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:20.240
Yeah.
00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:33.679
Um, we know there's a link with perhaps some sleep disorders during that phase, whether it's obstructive sleep apnea due to the weight gain, or whether it's insomnia, and then post-menopause, age-related factors kick in.
00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:34.480
Absolutely.
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:36.720
So it sounds all doom and gloom.
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:47.919
It's not every woman will experience this to a large degree, but we are more susceptible to experiencing issues with our sleep because of those hormone transitions that we go through.
00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:48.399
Yeah.
00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:57.039
And do you think like the temperature changes which are linked, you know, throughout our menstrual cycle and with the hormones, do you think that can play quite a big role as well in that sleep disruption?
00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:07.519
Yeah, so certainly that second phase of the menstrual cycle, you have your progesterone rise and temperature can increase, and certainly for some people that's enough to wake them up or cause issues in getting to sleep.
00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:11.519
So there are strategies that you can put in place around that cooling strategies.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:20.240
Um, and if you know that you're particularly prone to it, then you can obviously plan throughout the month, you know, how you know when when it might happen.
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:26.240
Um, but certainly an increase in temperature during the menstrual cycle will impact on your sleep to a certain extent.
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:33.279
And I think that's where you know, like what you're just saying, then knowing your body and knowing your symptoms really well is so important.
00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:48.480
So, you know, especially linked to menstrual cycle, perimenopause, menopause, like if you know that you're somebody who suffers from a like you say, from a rise in temperature, then yes, there are going to be strategies you can put in place to try and manage that at certain times of the month.
00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:57.679
Or if it's actually that anxiety is your thing which really affects you, then are there things which you can do to manage that anxiety to help you sleep, which I think is really important.
00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:05.120
I think the toughest one is when you're pregnant, and you know, when everybody's always like, make sure you get lots of sleep before baby comes, and they're like, No, I'm really uncomfortable.
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:06.399
How am I gonna get sleep?
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:07.919
The last thing I can do, yeah.
00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:09.360
Yeah, that's the tricky one.
00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:16.720
But you know, apart from that one, probably um what kind of sleep strategies would you say are good things to possibly use to try and help?
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:22.000
You know, if you know your body well enough and you know what things might be causing an issue, what would you say?
00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:23.279
You know, what can we put in place?
00:10:23.519 --> 00:10:40.000
Well, in the book, there's strategies for each phase of the life cycle, so there's specific strategies in the book, but generally, um, I've also gone through those sort of general strategies at the end of the book, and that is more around giving yourself the opportunity to get good sleep as much as you can, but being pragmatic with it.
00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:47.120
So having a regular sleep routine, but accepting the fact that life gets in the way, the kids might be ill, you have a stress with work.
00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:58.799
But if you are if you value your sleep, protect that sleep window, personalise that sleep window as much as you can, you're in a much better position than being ignorant to that fact.
00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:06.799
Um, and so yeah, it's if relaxation strategies work for you, what relaxation strategies are that are it that work for you?
00:11:06.879 --> 00:11:11.519
So is it listening to music, is it a warm milky drink, is it some mindfulness?
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:13.519
It's totally individualized.
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:15.039
That that's the thing with sleep.
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:24.000
What works for one person might not work for the next in terms of helping them get into a position to get to sleep and have a good night's sleep regularly.
00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:25.120
Yeah, no, absolutely.
00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:30.399
I do think that is fun, you know, because some people like doing that mindfulness, that kind of meditation.
00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:37.360
Other people might find actually that's stressful trying to meditate, and that that might make them more, you know, stressed.
00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:49.039
Um, and then that you've touched on like certain drinks or even a hot bath, or some people actually find doing some gentle stretching is actually enough just to get that kind of calming of their body before going to sleep.
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.360
Yeah.
00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:56.559
Is there any things you'd say which you've come across which you say you wouldn't recommend doing before going to sleep, things which you'd say are unhelpful?
00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.600
I think it's more that comes down to personality type.
00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:02.159
So people always talk about screens before bed and all that.
00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:06.159
And actually, if TV relaxes you, then that's fine.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:15.600
But if you are a person who doesn't have the self-control to turn off the screen or turn off the device, then I would say you need to probably manage that with your sleep.
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:28.080
The theory of the blue light theory, you may have heard about, where it's more a case of the blue light that is emitted from the devices suppresses melatonin, which is the dracular hormone that only comes out at night.
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:34.480
But what recent studies have found is actually that suppression of melatonin isn't significant enough to delay sleep.
00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:38.480
So melatonin signals sleep, signals the body it's time to fall asleep.
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.679
So actually, the blue light theory is a bit of a sleep myth.
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:47.840
It's more about having the self-control to be able to turn off the device at the time that you need to go to sleep.
00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:56.480
Um, so you know, rather than doom scrolling or on Netflix, I'll just keep watching the next episode, the next episode, you know, it's it's turning off.
00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:07.279
So when you say things not to do, if you know you're someone who doesn't necessarily have that self-control to turn off the device when you need to, then yeah, I'd say manage that.
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:17.759
Um, and then like anything, you know, it's individualized, but exercise, fine, you know, fine to do really good or physical activity, any movement is good for sleep.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:26.799
But if you are finding that if you exercise in the evening and actually that does impact on your time to get to sleep, then it might be you need to modify that.
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:40.559
Studies show that any movement is better than nothing, and uh the evening exercise doesn't necessarily impact on nighttime sleep unless you are that person who takes a long time to recover.
00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:48.480
You know, it's you your your your physiological adaptation to the exercise is impacting on your sleep, then maybe you need to adjust that somewhat.
00:13:48.799 --> 00:14:00.240
Yeah, and then I guess you've got to look at how much sleep you then get in order to get those physiological adaptations to allow full recovery, depending on what time you have to get up the next morning, that can have a knock-on effect.
00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:11.279
And yeah, I think it's one of the key things which we speak to athletes about quite a lot, is that actually that risk and rewards, you know, what are you gonna gain from doing whatever that physical activity is?
00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:18.879
Yeah, and what actually could you risk if you know that actually you're trying to squeeze it in because you've had a heavy stressful day, you've got to be up early the next day.
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.879
Yeah, is that session going to be a benefit or is that actually going to be a detriment?
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:29.360
Yeah, you know, it is all individuals on an individual person and then on individual cases, depending on what that day looks like.
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:44.559
Yeah, um and and sometimes it might be that you know squad training dictates the time that you train, if it's evening training, for example, and I would say in those cases, then sacrifice the the quantity of sleep, so how much sleep we're getting for the quality.
00:14:44.720 --> 00:15:07.039
So perhaps you know, you obviously get in, you want to recover, you have some nutrition, you know, you want to so maybe then to relax, you know, you are gonna watch TV for a bit longer that night because you're still buzzing from that training session, so you'll have less sleep, but you'll have better quality sleep for that night, and then the following night get back onto that regular routine.
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.840
Yeah, and I find that it can be things which you watch on TV.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:16.320
I definitely find at night time I can't watch something which is really intense and needs to be focused on that would affect my sleep.
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:24.080
But if it's something easy, just something which is kind of on in the background, yeah, is what switches my mind off and then allows me to kind of get to sleep.
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:30.399
That's often what you say is watch something at low volume that's quite mundane, perhaps that you've seen before.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:32.879
Yeah, whereas other people be like, it doesn't bother me.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:34.320
It's like caffeine, you know.
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:39.360
Absolutely, some people can have a cup of coffee before bed and it doesn't have any impact.
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:47.279
Whereas for most people, the advice is stop drinking the caffeine from lunchtime onwards, switch to decaf or other drinks.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:55.279
Um, just because the half-life of caffeine, again, you metabolise it individually, but it typically up to nine hours to stay in your system.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:16:00.639
It's a long time, really, especially if you're having one at even at seven o'clock at night and then trying to get to sleep.
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:08.000
And yeah, I guess that's then the similar links to having the alcohol as well, and what that can do to the body and stimulate heart rate and everything else.
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:08.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:20.720
Um would you say um from like you know, like old, I guess like older generations would look at that alcohol and quite a lot would say actually they need to have that nightcap to get to sleep again.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:24.000
Like, have you noticed differences with that from a generation point of view?
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:25.600
So yes, good question.
00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:40.799
Certainly, I'd say the younger generation these days, definitely more health conscious, like there's less of a pub culture, like with adolescents and and younger adults, let's say it's it's more around the devices and so with the issues with sleep.
00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:48.799
Um, but yeah, certainly alcohol, it's only a small amount will impact your sleep, so one or two glasses, yeah.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:52.240
Um, so for women, you know, that's that's quite significant.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:17:03.120
Yeah, um, so it's a case of like, okay, oh you know, you don't want to be like the sleep police, or you know, people need to have fun, but also um it's just managing it.
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:24.000
So if you are knowing that you've got a particular period where your sleep is you're struggling with your sleep, maybe you're perimenopausal and you're getting some symptoms, and so maybe it's making choices as to okay, well, actually, shall I not drink you know for that night out and just you know, see so you you know, you're getting a better night's sleep.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:46.160
And if you are going to drink, we know it dehydrates you, we know that you get more restless sleep from it, it increases your core temperature as as well as the knock-on effect to your sleep architecture, that emotional part of sleep that we said with the with the REM sleep and and just making choices around what you need to do on a daily basis to have good quality of life.
00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:46.400
Yeah.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:52.880
And saying actually, for the for the next month, I'm just gonna you know cut it out for a bit and just see if I feel better.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:54.799
Yeah, and concentrate on you as an individual.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.920
And I guess again, that depends on like what else you've got going around it.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:04.400
So if you know you're going out on a night out, for example, but the next day you've got a quiet day, yeah, then actually that's not so bad.
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:15.839
If the next day you've got a feeling, yeah, maybe then actually again, I guess it's still going back to that risk and reward, like you know, what things are you okay to sacrifice in order to get the quality the next day?
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.160
Yeah, um, and it's just having that understanding as an individual on how that affects you.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:20.559
Yeah.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:25.680
If somebody does obviously have that poor receip, would you say napping is something is that something they can do?
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:28.640
Is that something you'd recommend and how would you look into it?
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.519
So napping is good, it's not for everyone.
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.279
So I always say don't force a nap.
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:40.240
If napping is not something that you particularly enjoy or find easy, then don't force it.
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:44.000
Having you uh downtime will be equally as beneficial in that case.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:50.640
So having at some point in the day, if your head are at the same level as your feet, that's going to be of benefit to you.
00:18:50.880 --> 00:19:00.720
But if you have the motivation, the opportunity, and the circumstances to nap, and it doesn't, you know, it's not a negative experience for you, then yes, definitely.
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.680
The trouble is it's that having the opportunity to nap because ideally, two till four in the afternoon is the prime time to nap.
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:22.000
Our core temperature has a circadian rhythm and it it dips in the afternoon the same way it does in the evening, and we need to be cool to fall asleep, so that's why we get the nodding dom de keys intro after after lunch, and we feel that need to fall asleep.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:39.039
And if you were going to nap, that is the prime time, and usually between 20 minutes and half an hour, because going back to the sleep cycle, that's when you're in a lighter stage of sleep, you haven't gone into deep sleep, and the sleep inertia to overcome isn't so great that you just you feel awful trying to come out of deep sleep.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:43.039
It's you would benefit from that nap, but you'd feel awful when you woke up.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:51.359
So 20 to 30 minutes, ideally between two and four in the afternoon, if you've got the circumstances the opportunity to do so.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:20:07.359
And it could be that it's recovery napping because you've had a really busy phase and missed sleep, or you it's in anticipation of late night working, for example, um, or you're just something that you enjoy and you know you've got the opportunity to do it.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:08.480
So yeah, yeah.
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:12.240
A lot of my athletes would always um have a shot of coffee before they do it.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:12.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:20.000
Have the nap, but you know when they wake up that they'll be alert again because of the yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:24.400
So, you know, that was something they always used to get on to when we were travelling a competition, yeah.
00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:25.599
That would be their thing on.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.119
Yeah, I would do that on training camps as a practitioner as well.
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:46.160
Like when I work with rowing, they typically, you know, they'd have a two and a half day cycle, so that half day um was a good opportunity to recover, obviously for the athletes, but for the staff as well, you you could get lots of your chores done, maybe do a bit of exercise, but also if there's time you could get a nap in.
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:51.680
Um, and that was a I used to do that as well, have the coffee and then have a 20-minute nap, and yeah, it does work.
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:52.640
It does work, okay.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:53.359
That's good to know.
00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.759
I don't drink coffee, so I can never say if it works, yeah.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.119
We all seem to sing about it.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:20:57.759
Yeah, that's good.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:08.559
When you were writing the book, Sarah, was there anything in particular which you kind of came out, you know, something new which you didn't expect to get from the book, or that's a good question.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:23.839
Um I think it was just when you are working, when you've worked in elite sport and you've worked, and obviously you found an area of research that you enjoy and is impactful for the athletes, and it's a solutions-focused environment.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:36.640
Obviously, everyone like is focused on doing well and doing better, but what has surprised me in writing the book and going through people is that normal people aren't like that.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:43.359
If you see what I mean, it's like not everyone wants to find the solution straight away.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:50.240
Sometimes they just want to talk about it, and it's kind of just like that's the therapy in itself.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:56.640
Whereas athletes, all right, tell me what I need to do to make this better, I'll do it tonight, and then I'll, you know, and that that is what I'm gonna do.
00:21:56.799 --> 00:22:06.480
Whereas I've I've found uh a lot of the time in writing the book, it's like the level of information people have had about sleep, it it just hasn't been there.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:15.359
They that they just don't know the you know, in terms of the impact it has on their life, how easy it is to improve their quality of life just by making small changes.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:22.480
Um, and that was a real education for me because coming, you know, working in elite sport where everyone is like, what do I need to do to be better?
00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:38.720
I need must be better, like you know, all the time, and then work go working sort of more wider out in the general public, it's like people just don't necessarily have that body awareness and that self-awareness for their own well-being in the same way that elite athletes might do.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:39.519
No, that's true.
00:22:39.759 --> 00:22:55.119
I think different people have different, I want to say levels of understanding, is then you definitely find that with some people you work with, whether that's athletes, like elite athletes or non-elite athletes, you have some who just want to know quick fix almost, like just give me, tell me what I need to do, and I'll do it.
00:22:55.200 --> 00:23:00.720
And then you have the others who want to know the story, the understanding, they want to know the whys basically.
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:07.519
And you know, that varies from elite athlete to elite athlete, and you know, from elite athlete to like I say, non-elite athlete.
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:09.359
Um, and it is interesting, you know.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:20.400
So I guess what you're saying from the book is it just getting the whys and everything else with the non-elite, you know, you know, generation, shall I say, of the non-elite people, which is interesting.
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:33.440
Yeah, even with the strategies, you know, sometimes you're saying things to his people about if in the absence of a sleep disorder, if it's just about making a change to get better sleep and putting some simple sleep strategies in place, but people haven't considered it.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:36.480
You know, it's like if you say to most people, what's your sleep strategy?
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:37.599
They'll be like, Oh, what's that?
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.480
I haven't got one.
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:50.720
And when you explain what it is and the science behind sleep and why even a sleep routine, it's linked to circadian rhythms, and the body needs to understand where it is in time and space in a 24-hour period.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:53.119
People don't think about that, you know.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:54.640
And why would they, you know?
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:03.039
But it's so it's just really putting in place some simple strategies that can it's like the low-hanging fruit, isn't it?
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:07.519
Will have a massive impact on a person, but they haven't even thought about that.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.440
Whereas for you and I working at least sport, you'd be like, Well, why wouldn't you do that?
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:17.599
Yeah, so it's just changing, it's it's it's changing your radar as to the audience that you're working with.
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:43.359
Yeah, and I think you know, like you said, it's that improving that quality of life, so that can be male or female, and prove if you can have a chance of improving that quality of life, like whether that's from an exercise physical activity point of view, you know, like improving their recovery or whatever, that's just general life, like being more alert throughout the day, being more on it, being having more energy to do whatever it is you want to do, then actually, why wouldn't more people do that?
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:54.559
And you know, I think it's really important with this book because there are so many differences, male and female, and actually really understanding the female body, which I think more and more people are doing, we're talking about it more.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:25:04.319
The female, you know, not just the female apply, but the female, we're talking more about it, yeah, and we're becoming more aware with the menstrual cycle, with perimenopause, with menopause, with pregnancy.
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:20.240
Um, so actually, sleep plays, like you said, like a really important role in all phases, and actually a slightly different role in different phases of a female life, and it is a you know, I think it is a really important thing to be discussing and including when we're talking about the female.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.200
Yeah, definitely.
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:37.759
I think and there's something I read the other day, uh, people talk about pillars of health, and they actually disagreed with sleep being a pillar of health because it's the stage before that, it's first principles, it's like it's it's critical, like you know, and you could argue well, nutrition's critical and physical activity is critical.
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.839
So I can kind of see both sides of the argument, like for the general public.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:55.519
I think they understand pillars of health, they understand that okay, well, these are the things that are important to quality of life or or well-being, or that term that gets banded about, and yeah, that's another bugbear of mine.
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.920
It's like you have to understand what you mean by well-being when you say it.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:06.000
And I say in the book, it's about how you know thriving in life, you know, having rigour in your daily life.
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.759
And a a colleague told me about a term in um Scandinavia they have.
00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:28.319
I'm not even gonna try and do the accent, but uh, it doesn't translate into an English word, but it means um having thriving in your life, and it's the term overschood, and it's basically their word for thriving in life, having rigour, having the energy in life.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:29.279
That's amazing.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:35.279
That's essentially what we're talking about from my point of view when I say sleep is essential for your well-being.
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.839
You know, that that word sums it up quite well for me.
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:38.720
No, it does.
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:46.559
I think that's amazing, and actually, yeah, you're right, like quality of life, well-being, whatever you know, whatever word you want to use is different for everybody.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:50.880
So, what that looks like for me is going to be completely different to what that looks like for somebody else.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:55.680
So, that might be for an Olympic athlete that actually they're going for the gold.
00:26:55.839 --> 00:27:08.160
For me, it might be, you know, my general life with my running not to that same level, but at a different level for somebody else, it might be you know, just family time or um you know, work focused.
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:14.160
You know, it can be it's so individualized, but actually, quality of life is still you know, like you say, thriving in life.
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:15.920
That's probably a really nice way of looking at it.
00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:16.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:29.440
Do you have any other kind of links or any top tips from the book which you'd there's loads of signposting in the book, so for all aspects of sleep throughout women's life cycle, there's there's signposting.
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:34.720
So, for example, um, there's signposting for uh insomnia.
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:55.039
We know that um there's cognitive behavioural therapy for insomnia is a proven technique, so there's signposting for some apps for that that are freely available on the NHS, um, there's signposting for other organisations that might help in terms of different areas of a woman's life, mental health, for example.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:58.880
Um, so yeah, there's and then you talk about top tips.
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:18.319
I always think that there's the five principles of sleep, which Professor Colin SB and his colleagues at uh Oxford Uni wrote about a few years ago, and it it's all about valuing and personalising that sleep window and and protecting sleep and recognising it's a significant impact factor on your health, physical and mental well-being.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:25.440
So having taking time a step back to protect that sleep time and personalise that sleep window.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:28.079
But I always add that you need to be pragmatic with it.
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.599
If you try and be idealistic about sleep, you're gonna get in a mess.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:43.200
Life gets in the way, but being ignorant of the fact of how beneficial sleep is is worse than being aware of it and trying to put sleep practices in place as much as possible.
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:48.720
Yeah, so being flexible, being adaptable to you know to life is okay.
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:49.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:50.240 --> 00:28:58.480
And if you had any key message, any finishing kind of golden nugget, should I say, I always like to finish on like a golden nugget.
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:04.559
I think we did it a little bit with your uh saying earlier that what what would you uh what would you give?
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:09.440
Is that up give yourself that opportunity to get good sleep as much as you can?
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:10.480
Yeah, perfect.
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:11.759
I think that sounds great.
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:16.160
So I think if there's anything else which you want to add, but otherwise, I think we've covered it all.
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:20.559
So I'd say from my point of view, definitely I've read the book, it is a brilliant book.
00:29:20.640 --> 00:29:22.559
Um, The Essential Guide to Women's Sleep.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.279
Is it available everywhere, like most places?
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:26.799
Yeah, the usual outlet.
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:35.680
So Jessica Kings are either publishers, it's on their website, it's on Amazon, it's on local bookshop in Cavisham, Reading here, um, Forbears Books.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:41.359
Um, but yeah, it's available online in Kindle and um paperback version.
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:51.519
Certainly, and I'd say from what I've read, like it's a really good book from to for like practitioners and for non practitioners, I'd say it's one which would be really good for anyone to read, basically.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:55.920
It doesn't go too, it does give some of the technicalities, but it doesn't go too technical.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:58.799
So even if you're not a practitioner personally, I think it's a really good read.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:29:59.839
It has some really good tips.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:02.400
So yeah, so that's out on October the twenty-first.
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:03.759
Yes, not long now.
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.359
So like I say, congratulations again on the book and good luck with it.
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:07.839
Thank you.
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:09.200
And I think we'll finish it there.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.480
So thank you for joining me.
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:11.599
That's good, thank you.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:12.480
Thank you all.