'When you're stressed about money, you're stressed about everything.' Lucy Kough on how Tap the Gap is closing the gap on growing wealth for women.

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I'm gonna change this world today.
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Make those bad things go away.
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Just quick.
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So let's start with you like pineapple one pizza or not.
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100%.
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I'm really not Italian by any standards.
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I love pineapple on Pizza.
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Money.
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Nice to have now, even nicer to have in retirement.
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But for half the population, that's not a sure thing.
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In Australia, women typically end up with around a quarter less in their retirement fund than men, and that can contribute to everything from homelessness to living on the pension, which isn't exactly the retirement most of us dream of.
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Tap the Gap is on a mission to do something about it.
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And founder Lucy Kough is here to tell us how.
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Welcome, Lucy.
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Thank you.
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Hello, thanks so much for having me.
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It's a real pleasure to be on this podcast.
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Oh, fantastic.
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So look, a quarter less super, that is a significant statistic.
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And my understanding is it can actually be a lot worse for some demographics.
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Do you want to tell me about the problem?
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So essentially the data tells us that Australian women are eight times more likely to be homeless over the age of 55.
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Now that's a lot, right?
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That's not twice as much or three times as that's eight times.
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So essentially, women who are working in our economy, generally taking up most of their unpaid care and contributing to over 60% of the GDP in the country by caring for people, bringing up children, caring for the elderly, and not getting paid for it, are finding themselves later in life with not enough money in their superannuation.
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And then they're ending up on the streets.
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Now, this is not the outcome that we want, right?
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For half of our society.
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And it's just not fair.
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It's not a fair outcome.
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And the reason for that, we can, you know, we can talk about it and people will go, oh, look, there's nothing we can do about it.
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The simple reason is that our financial systems, our structures weren't built to reflect the way that women work and live.
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They reflect a single earning male in continuous employment.
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So this is the problem.
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The problem is not so much paychecks or yes, women earn less, yes, women don't get promoted.
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There's all of that in it.
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But the fundamental problem that we're dealing with is the infrastructure that we don't have a system that reflects people who work part-time, people who work in lower-paying industries, women that take time off for health reasons.
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Women are most likely to care for an elderly parent if they need that.
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So there's all of these times in a women's woman's life that they will come out of the workforce.
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And our core system that helps people save for retirement doesn't reflect that.
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The system's literally built for you to have a full-time income, for you to get retirement income.
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That's exactly right, because it's a percentage of your earnings.
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Percentage of your earnings.
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And even if you're doing like casual work or what's not even considered work often for some people, kids, which is actually exceedingly valuable work, like bringing up the next generation.
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If there's no money directly attached to that, there's no superannuation being built up either.
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Correct.
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That's true.
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And to understand the problem a little more deeply, the reason that women are ending up homeless is because often at that time women are separating from their partners for various reasons.
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A lot of them don't know that superannuation is a shared asset under family law and are walking out of these relationships without the right to shared super, leaving it behind, leaving it on the table.
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And, you know, you can imagine that is a really stressful time for a lot of women and their partners, of course.
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But often in those times when we don't have the right information and the right guidance around us, we do make decisions that can have a huge effect for us later down the track.
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And the key thing to remember, especially for that audience, is the data tells us that in 90% of domestic violence cases, there's been a form of financial abuse.
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So we see from a behavioral point of view, women who don't have agency over their finances are stuck in these really bad situations.
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And I've heard stories from super funds telling me about women who've lost all of their super because of a coercive relationship.
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So what we need to do is look at ways for that system to serve women better.
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It's a version of control, really, another version of control, isn't it?
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It is.
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And look, uh, and I think when we talk about it from an infrastructure point of view, look, we have to look at what's changed.
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You know, superannuation was brought in in the 90s, right?
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And work looked very different back then.
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You know, the majority of households were male and female together, man at work in a consistent job, woman mostly at home.
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Now, you know, I'm a big fan.
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I remember growing up loving Hawkey and Keating and thinking they were amazing politicians.
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And it's not to that detriment, but the world of work looks very different today than it did, you know, almost 30 years ago, and our systems haven't kept up.
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Women are a huge proportion of this audience that we're talking about, but we're also considering the self-employed and that gig economy, which is growing by the day.
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Now, these are people that aren't forced to pay their own superannuation as well.
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So again, we've got these huge gaps being created, and we need to change this infrastructure and these systems so that we don't have all of these people getting to retirement and really freaking out.
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They don't have the right advice around them, they're scared, and they're ending up in really dire situations.
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Yeah, and that combines horribly with like rents have gone up, people can't afford houses.
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So you end up at the other end of the leg, let's say you do end up, say, um, at 55 divorcing or at 65 and you've done a gig economy your whole life.
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Yeah.
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In the next, say, 25 years or whatever that you live, the rents are going to triple and quadruple in that time.
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Exactly.
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And so I think, you know, it is a really, it's a big issue for Australia as a growing one.
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And a growing one, right?
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And it's not just about personal finance, it is about the whole economy and actually how we're going to support these people.
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Because ultimately, if people are more independent with their wealth, that takes a huge strain off the Australian economy.
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And a lot of the research that we're looking at is about the whole economy is going to benefit from women's participation in it, right?
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So there's this piece where women are, oh, I'm not going to go back to work after having kids.
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There's maybe it's not actually financially viable for me.
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Daycare costs a lot.
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There's all of this sort of myriad of issues surrounding it.
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But I say to women, I'm like, you know what?
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The fact that you're earning super when you go back to work, maybe you're not coming out at the end of the day with huge amounts moving forward, but that money is investing for you.
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And that's your nest egg that's growing.
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But we're not taught to think like that.
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Yeah.
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Now I'm going to take you back to your childhood.
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Yes.
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Because you first, I mean, you've explained this problem um very much with the now, but you recognise this way back with your own mum.
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Is this true?
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'll can tell you a story about that actually.
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So yeah, I grew up in a kind of standard suburb in Sydney, um, thought I had a great upbringing, definitely spent my time climbing trees and, you know, playing games out the front until dusk, which is a wonderful childhood.
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My mum was a primary school teacher.
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We had four kids in our family, and she taught me those great values of education that's really important to educate everyone at all levels, really brought up in a creative environment to think about different things and critically analyze things, I guess, from a young age.
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But where our story took us was that my dad suffered some real mental health challenges, and that put a huge strain on our family, and they ended up separating.
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And she retired after teaching primary school kids for 48 years with no super of her own.
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And she had brought up the four kids and moved us out of another house.
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My sister ended up working for us, stopping E and worked for us full-time to support us while mum was paying a mortgage and rent in another house.
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And yeah, so I know what that financial instability feels like.
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And it doesn't feel great.
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I've had to, you know, I think about that.
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And I think there should be better outcomes for women.
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You know, mum is fine and she's great now.
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And, you know, she's got, we're a really close family because we've come out the other side of that.
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But I think if I look about the contribution that she's made to society and why should she end up with that feeling, you know, when she's just put so much in.
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So, you know, I was working my day job in advertising, which feels like a very uh mediocre job compared to teaching primary school kids.
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But um, and I was working on a super fund and I discovered this statistic about 28% less that women are going to retire with.
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And I just, I kind of couldn't believe it.
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Like it felt like such a huge number.
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And no one really was talking about it at the time.
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This is about five years ago.
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You know, the people within the industry were, but no one out there in the world was talking about it.
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And the more I started to talk to people about it, the more they kind of went, oh yeah, if I think about it and do the math, I earn less generally.
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Maybe I'm overlooked for a promotion.
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I take time off to have kids.
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And they're like, actually, that kind of sucks.
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And when I talk to people about it, particularly women, it made them angry and rightly so.
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So, you know, that's where I looked into it and went, we need a really lateral solution to change this.
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We can't just say, oh, we've got to educate women, because women are like, it's not that we're not educated.
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Like, that's kind of like, okay, don't talk to me like I'm an idiot.
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There's a lot of really smart women out there who haven't been taught the basics of superannuation and they're really busy, right?
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They're trying to manage households, they're trying to be a friend, be a mum, be a bloody hot girl walking down the street on the beach, you know.
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Yeah, all of that.
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So there's a lot of pressure on women.
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And that's where, yeah, I decided to use my creativity and randomly, you know, jump into the world of tech and try and change this for the better.
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Interesting.
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So you've seen it, you've actually grown up without realizing it, probably, or without being able to galvanize it in your mind.
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Yeah.
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You've seen a stat and gone, oh my God, that was my upbringing.
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And then you've realized it's actually you.
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And then, of course, as you say, you start looking around, you go, it's everyone.
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It's everyone, right?
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And it's so many people.
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So the more people I spoke to, and the key question is, you know, when was the last time you checked your super?
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And it was kind of this blank face.
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Who's your super with?
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Who's your super with?
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Correct, exactly.
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And so then you say to someone, Well, would you not check your bank account for 30 years?
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It's true.
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It's we're it's us humans, we're all about the now, aren't we?
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We're all about the now.
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And so it's this behavioral lens that Tap the Gap is bringing to the problem, which is when you actually talk to a woman.
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And this was one of those moments when I was early working on the idea and I met a young woman at a startup event, and I was kind of telling her what I was working on.
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And she said, Oh, super, I really need to think about that, but I don't feel really confident.
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And, you know, I'm under 30.
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And I'm like, great, you've got time.
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I'm thinking talking to her.
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And so, you know, we connected on LinkedIn and I said, Oh, there's probably three things you should do under 30 that could really help.
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I'm not a financial advisor, but this is some things you could talk about.
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So I messaged them on literally message, you know, a couple of characters here and there.
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I saw her a month later, just randomly at a startup hub, and she came over and she said to me, you know what?
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Thank you so much for sending me that information because it gave me the confidence to call up my super fund.
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I changed my investment choice and I spoke to my dad about my super.
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And that kind of gave me shivers at the time.
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And I thought, I've literally just had one conversation with you.
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I've talked to you about super.
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I'm not projecting, I'm not selling, I'm not doing anything.
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I just had a conversation with you, and you've grown your confidence in probably half an hour.
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Yeah, in that time, right?
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And so I think that's where when we talk about change, and you'll know this, you know, really well in the world of sustainability, that behavior change, how we change what we do, you have to have confidence in what you're doing in order to do it.
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And I know that kind of sounds probably straight up, but people, you can see a lot of the super funds and where they're falling down is that they're saying, oh, let's just educate everyone about super.
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And if we tell them more, they'll understand that it's important and then they'll put their money in and they'll take better care.
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And that just doesn't work from a psychology point of view because super's not a tangible thing that people are thinking about today.
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You know, they're worried about paying the bills, they're trying to deal with all the problems in front of them.
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But when you come in and you tell them a story about inequality and what's going to happen later in life, and that here is an opportunity for you to change that story for yourself because of all these things, that's when they start paying attention.
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And that's really exciting.
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It's actually a classic marketing funnel.
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It is a marketing funnel.
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You're right.
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I need to be aware I have this problem consideration.
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I need to understand the problem and deep dig deep.
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Now that I get my problem, I need someone to solve it.
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So who will what's conversion?
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Who will I go with?
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Interesting, isn't it?
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So they're all starting with education, but nobody's even aware they have a problem.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's exactly it.
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So you what, you know, you're just walking past that from a like from a woman's point of view, they don't really know the stats.
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No, and they're probably not thinking, as you say, I'm thinking about I've got to get home, do this, this, this, I've got all these meetings, I've got this due.
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They're not thinking about how rich am I going to be in 20 years, 30 years.
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No, and there's a lot of hope, you know, there's some hope vested there.
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And then there's also a huge sweeping mass of women who are like, oh, that's not really my thing.
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Like my partner, my husband.
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Yeah, my husband looks after that.
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He looks after that.
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That's sort of things.
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I'm not good at money, is just like just get rid of that, I say.
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Like, because the issue is statistically, you may separate from your partner and you want to be good at money then.
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Well, and also, yes, I agree with that.
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But also to move on to your to tap the gap, yeah.
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There's a piece, your product is pretty simple in how it works.
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There's an element of you don't actually have to be good at money, you just gotta start doing a daily, everyday thing, and the money will be good at you.
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It'll work out for you.
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It'll work out for you.
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How does it work?
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Tell me what is it?
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Yeah, so essentially what tap the gap does is make this long-term wealth building automatic.
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So we go to a space where women are already engaged.
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Again, we're not telling them to care about super.
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We're going into a space where they do hold economic power, and that's shopping.
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So women make 80% of purchase decisions globally.
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So, really, what we do is connect with your everyday banking tech.
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So there's three parts to the product.
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The first is Roundup technology, and that uses open banking, which is a government-regulated platform, which essentially gives you uh it gives us uh consent to read your data in your bank statement, and we calculate what to round up to.
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So the easiest way to explain roundups is I go and buy a coffee, it costs me $4.60.
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Oh, which?
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Or yeah, maybe $7.40 now in the city if you're having special milk.
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So say it costs you, let's go Dream World, it costs $4.50, and then we round up 50 cents to the nearest dollar.
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So we're taking that, we're measuring each of those roundups on every transaction.
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Three times a week, we sweep it, we direct debit it from your account, and it goes into your little digital wallet that goes into your super once a month.
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So yeah, the easiest way to explain Roundups, I'll do it in the short version, is Roundups basically rounds up every transaction you make on your everyday card, um, like a coffee for 450.
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We round up 50 cents and you sweep that money, the groceries, whatever.
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It could be your hair product, your hair's looking good today.
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Um, you know, it's all the product.
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It's all the product.
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So yeah, it can be everything from going out to dinner to shopping online, and you can choose whether you round up to $1, $2, or $3.
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.960
And all of that gets swept automatically into your super.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:16.799
So that's interesting because generally superannuation, as we said at the start, is attached to your income.
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:21.120
But what you've done is said not everyone has an income, but everybody has to spend money.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.120
So we'll attach to the spending instead.
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.360
We're going to move where the savings comes from.
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:26.240
Yeah, correct.
00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:30.559
So that could be you might be on maternity leave, but you can still be part of Tap the Gap.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.639
So that's the first way that it works, which is round up, and that's your own money.
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.399
So to be clear, it's your own money.
00:16:36.399 --> 00:16:40.480
Sense 10 cents here, 20 cents there, 60 cents, it all kind of adds up.
00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.559
And at the moment, our users are rounding up about $40 a month.
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:46.480
You know, some months it's a little bit less.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:52.159
So it's kind of $10 a week, a little bit less, but that can have an astronomic effect on your super.
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.399
It can't be the magic of compound interest, which is our new best friend.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:05.680
So, you know, that $30, $40 a week can grow to, you know, 50 or 60 grand in your super at 7%, you know, over 30 years, which is not nothing, right?
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:06.559
It's not nothing.
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:13.119
And right now the data is telling us that women are retiring on average with 50 grand less, you know, than men.
00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:14.000
There it is right there.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.119
Yeah, there it is right there.
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:16.160
You can close that gap.
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.720
So this product can literally close that gap for you.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.400
So that's the first way it works.
00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:23.279
The second way that it works is what we call brand bonus.
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:28.480
So this is basically a gift from the retailers that are on our platform when you shop with them.
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:35.759
I might go and buy this shirt, say from the iconic, I pay $100 for it, and they are offering a 5% brand bonus.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:40.640
So I pay the full $100 and the $5 get swept into my super.
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:41.680
Thank you, Iconic.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:48.480
And what the retailers are loving about this is that it's helping them measure their sustainability outcomes.
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:56.559
So they are not only helping acquire a customer, retainable, loyal customer, but they can actually report back to their board.
00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:05.759
I have helped X amount of women, you know, 100,000 women, a million women, when we get to that, um put X amount into their super and it's going to grow to this.
00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:13.039
So they're actually having a real tangible effect on the outcomes for um, well, female Australians, but all Australians.
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:17.039
Um, we do have men and women and non-binary individuals using our platform right now.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:18.400
I was going to say, am I allowed?
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:19.200
Am I allowed?
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:20.000
You are.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:28.480
And actually the great thing about men and um, you know, and partners using Tap the Gap is that our technology lets you put money into a spouse's super.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:30.480
So you Gee, that's interesting.
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:31.039
Yeah.
00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:39.599
So um we use BPay, um, which is highly secure, but we just use a BPAY number and you have a different one for yourself and your spouse.
00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:46.400
So, you know, we have a couple of men on the platform at the moment who are contributing to their um partner, which is great, right?
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:54.079
Because in a couple situation, what a lot of people don't think about is oh, well, we've got a lot of super in one, but not the other.
00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:58.400
Number one, it's how the woman feels about that is, you know, different.
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:02.079
But number two, you've got to make take advantage of those tax benefits.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.039
It's not tax effective.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:04.240
Yeah, it's not tax effective.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:05.519
Exactly.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:11.599
And most people don't know that up to $1.9 million, anything you take out of your super is tax-free.
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:12.400
Tax-free, yeah.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.519
So it's big.
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.079
Everyone remember this number today, 1.9 million.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:16.799
That's quite a lot.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:18.079
You it's quite a lot.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:22.400
And let's hope that everyone gets to that point, which sounds like a huge number.
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:30.720
But the earlier that you start contributing these small amounts, it could even be $10 a week, as I talked about, that number is going to grow and snowball.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.720
And it's the snowball effect that, you know, we're not really taught about in schools.
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.079
And we're not teaching our kids as much because we don't know.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.599
But that's a lesson you want to teach your children.
00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:46.079
And that, you know, especially for young women growing up entering the workforce.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:20:00.720
Yes, you want to buy all the things and you want to go out for um, you know, never-ending mimosa cocktails and all of that, do that, but just chip in a tiny bit because when that money is growing in your super, it's different to stocks, it's different to property.
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:02.240
You're not having to pay tax on it.
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:03.039
It's tax free later.
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:03.839
It's tax-free later.
00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:10.319
Isn't it ironic that we of all the things we teach in schools, we don't teach people how to be financially independent?
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:10.799
We don't.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:12.799
It is ridiculous.
00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:16.880
And you can see there was a huge report done by Deloitte and IRS.
00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:21.119
It was called the Big Lift, and it really talked about our financial capability.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:26.720
And there are trillions of dollars missing from our economy because we are not financially capable.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:27.599
People don't get it.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:39.920
You know, the data was saying essentially if people lifted their capability, um, we could add an extra $130,000 to the every household's gross um wealth.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.799
Yeah, I bet.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.680
And then some of that goes to tax and we're rich as a society.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:45.200
It seems like such a no-brainer.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:54.640
But if everybody in a society knows how it all works and then has simple tools like this to actually implement it, everybody's actually better off.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:55.680
Yeah, that's it.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.359
Better for me, better for we.
00:20:57.759 --> 00:20:58.319
That's it.
00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:07.680
And, you know, I think the that information, which you just touched on there, knowing and understanding, that's been one of the real barriers as well.
00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.920
Because have you ever read through a letter from your superannuation fund?
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:17.920
I I do make myself, but I wouldn't say it's the thing that I look forward to the most.
00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:18.880
Yeah, exactly.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:21.599
And look, there's there's reasons for that, right?
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:26.880
It's a highly regulated, highly compliant industry, and it needs to be because this is people's.
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.000
There's a lot of money.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.920
There's a lot of money in there, there's billions of dollars in there, and it's really important money.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:38.480
You know, we had the Royal Commission years ago about investment firms and financial advisors that weren't doing the right things by their clients.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.720
So I respect that and know that there has to be rules and regulations in there.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.960
And that's why we have our AFSL.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:55.839
We went through the process of getting that last year, and we take that really seriously because we are bringing general advice to people and we are helping move money into their superannuation fund.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:01.440
But the education part of it is really important, and that's why within Our app, we have micro learning.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.880
Is this the third part of the product?
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.039
I was gonna say we only got up to three.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.160
Great segue.
00:22:06.160 --> 00:22:09.039
Um, so the third part of the product, yeah, is micro learning.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:13.039
And we call it micro learning because who's got attention span and more than 30 seconds?
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.440
So it's one 30 seconds is a long time.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.160
It's a lot.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.400
Okay.
00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:32.880
Well, I'm thinking back to um you're right, most people are about three seconds, but you can go in there and they're one to two minute pieces of content and simple slides that explain the concepts of super in a way that people can understand because people just don't.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:33.680
It's really boring.
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:34.559
It's interesting though.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.759
I engage first.
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:36.240
Yep.
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.680
I then get rewarded.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:44.799
And now that I'm like kind of involved in this, then I start to learn, which is very different to how most things go, which is let me teach you everything first.
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:45.200
Correct.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.200
When I'm when you're not interested, not paying attention.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.440
So it's a nice flip on how most things work.
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.160
Yeah, it's a real flip on the customer experience.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.680
And that's where I think the behavioral shift is so exciting, right?
00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.200
Because we're seeing that that confidence grows through action.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:06.400
And we've had that validated through a lot of the CEOs in the super funds we're talking to, and saying, what really shifts the dial for members?
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:08.720
And they've come back to me and said, action.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:13.839
When a member actually takes action for their super, they're they've got this deeper engagement.
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:19.039
It's not about how many emails we send them or generally how many ads we put on TV.
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:21.119
All of that is part of the infrastructure.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:22.319
And I understand that.
00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:27.440
But the action and our action is we're showing you the money that's coming in.
00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:36.640
So within our app format, you know, you get your Roundup total, you get your brand voters total, and we show that a beautiful future projection of what that might look like.
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:37.680
And it's that's good.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.799
So you're sending me the later dream, but in very now tangible.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.000
Yeah, correct.
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:45.200
And through all our user research, that's what our users are saying.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:47.279
I want to feel a sense of progress.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:52.799
So it's not that you have to be great at maths or great at finance, like you said before.
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:54.079
You can connect once.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:57.839
Once you've done it once, you can sit back and let that kind of roll through.
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.400
You don't have to tend to it a lot, if that makes sense.
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:01.440
But that's a beautiful way.
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:02.799
So it's almost gamification.
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:04.240
You see it in a lot of apps now.
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:07.119
And you know, I always remember the start of apps and internet.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:08.880
Everyone's like, and it does this and this and this.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.400
And people put out this does everything.
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:18.240
And what they realize slowly is no, you're better at putting out something that gives people one simple thing to do, and then one next simple thing to do, and then one next.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:24.160
So the and then that's the classic, you're you know, 62% of the way there to the perfect profile, you know what I mean?
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:24.640
Yes.
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:26.240
Now do this today, now do this.
00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:28.160
So you lead them on a nice slow path.
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:28.960
That's right.
00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:31.920
And if they never get past step one, kind of doesn't matter.
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:32.960
It kind of doesn't matter.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:39.279
And you're right, like there's only so much cognitive load that a user can take on board, especially in an app experience.
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:47.839
And look, I'll admit that getting people to connect to Roundups, it has been a big thing because a lot of people aren't familiar with open banking technology.
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:49.039
I wasn't when I started this.
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:50.640
Do I need to even know that though?
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:56.960
I as a as a user, I just need to know that if I sign up there, when I tap there, that money goes there.
00:24:57.279 --> 00:24:58.240
Yes, that's true.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:01.599
But in order to onboard, you have to understand what you're doing.
00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:05.039
And we are asking you to connect and give consent to us.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:13.440
And that's what we worked really hard on when we were building the app to help users get past that point and to build trust with users in that situation.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:21.920
Because anytime you're connecting, everyone's so scared of fraud and data and scams that we need to be open with them and talk to them about it.
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.720
And actually, our values are about educating.
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:32.799
And I want our users to understand that they're using the latest and greatest banking technology to have agency over their finances.
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.920
They don't need to understand it all, but they need to know what they're using.
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:37.279
Yeah, they need to trust it.
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.759
So what we um through that you actually only launched in December 2025.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:42.640
This is true, yes.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:45.039
So I guess I have two questions.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:45.279
Yes.
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:46.720
Number one, how's it going?
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:49.279
But also just expanding on what we just talked about.
00:25:49.279 --> 00:25:53.279
What are you finding is working to get people in and to get using it?
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.039
Because it's one thing to create, see a problem, create an idea.
00:25:57.039 --> 00:26:00.480
Getting people to use it is really kind of the next important big thing.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:01.680
We would have thought, right?
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:07.680
Um, and look, you know, my journey to being a startup founder is I didn't know anything about tech two years ago.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:10.640
I mean, apart from how to use my phone and the TV remote.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:18.640
And obviously came from a creative world where I'd written websites and, you know, we produce some products, but I didn't know how to build it myself.
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:23.039
So I studied no code, I built a really dodgy version of the app.
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:28.960
And through that, and I say dodgy now because I thought it was beautiful, but now I can tell that it was really dodgy.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:31.599
If you're not embarrassed by your first version, exactly.
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:32.880
You're not launching early now.
00:26:32.880 --> 00:26:33.759
I'm really embarrassed.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:39.680
I I did a post early at the start of this year, kind of putting them side by side so I could show that you know the progress.
00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:41.519
So essentially it's a long journey.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:48.079
We launched just in December last year, and that was after the whole year of building and getting regular.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:49.039
Yeah, took a year.
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:55.920
Building, testing, testing, getting like the biggest piece was our AFSL license, which took way longer than we thought.
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:58.480
So our tech was ready to go, but we couldn't go to market.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.720
Do you test with users along the way and go try this?
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:01.200
Does it work?
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:01.599
Does it work?
00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:02.079
All the way.
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:02.319
Yeah.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:02.880
All the way.
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:12.480
And even prior to doing that, I was talking to heads of P and C at employers because we wanted to validate um and P and C people and culture.
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:14.400
People and culture for the listeners at home.
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:15.759
Yeah, for the listeners at home.
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:22.480
So really we saw when we when we came up with this idea, you know, to start with, women loved it, right?
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.640
They were like, oh my gosh, this feels amazing.
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:28.160
If I could just do that and do it and not really think about it, thank you.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:29.359
I'm signing up today.
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:31.279
But not all of them wanted to pay for it.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:40.480
So what we went and talked to heads of people and culture for about six months to say, where are you at in terms of financial literacy for your people?
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:44.720
And what we found was it was the next frontier of wellness.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:56.559
So, you know, great companies, employers of choice were offering great physical benefits, great mental health benefits, but they recognize, like you said, our financial literacy as a nation is going backwards.
00:27:56.559 --> 00:27:57.759
People are stressed about money.
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.480
And when people are stressed about money, they're stressed about everything.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.200
So number one reason relationships break up.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.480
Correct, correct.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:13.119
So they're recognizing that that's something they could combine into their EAP or into their financial well-being benefit program.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:18.000
And so we really talked to them very deeply and started co-building that product with them.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:23.839
You know, one of our early employers really was the first person to say to me, you can't just give it to women.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:25.920
We have to be able to offer it to everyone.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:34.319
And I loved hearing that feedback and said, actually, you're right, you can't block men and non-binary individuals out of this.
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.079
They have to be part of the solution.
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:42.000
And that's where we worked and we built the technical capability to put money in a spouse's super.
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.480
Or if a man wants to use it for himself, why not?
00:28:44.480 --> 00:28:45.200
So be it.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:52.640
But really, we're coming in through that avenue of actually educating women and men about this problem so they can solve it together.
00:28:52.640 --> 00:29:02.799
And I found it really interesting, young men in some of the employers that we've gone into, they love the module of education we do on super and separation.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:04.720
They're like, oh, what do you mean?
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.039
Like, I've got to share my super, you know?
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:10.319
And so it's not about my super, it's our super.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:18.000
And making them aware of that is has just been phenomenal because they're rethinking about their relationship with their partner.
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.960
And do you know what I mean?
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:23.359
So I imagine that would be for some people in impetus to see, oh, look, you've got no super.
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:24.000
What about this?
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:25.119
So you start building some too.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.079
Now together we have more super.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:28.720
Correct.
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:36.160
And going back to that point, like if you're having equal financial discussions in a relationship, then that makes for a stronger relationship.
00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:43.359
You know, we're seeing data now that a lot of women are putting into their prenups that they want their partner to split super through childbearing years.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:45.440
I'm like, full power to you, sister.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:50.079
Like, you know, that women are wising up, younger women are wising up to this.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:30:00.799
So, you know, to get back to what you talked about, what's working, is that where our go-to-market is really working through those employers, because we talked about trust, right?
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:08.240
And uh ASIC data shows us that employers are a real trusted source of financial education for Australians.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:14.079
They really are the number one influence, not the TikToker and you know, all those people out there.
00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:17.680
So the employers are delivering this education.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:23.200
And I'm finding with those, we're getting a higher uptake of users to complete the onboarding.
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.119
So really, so basically they're doing your go-to-market for you, they're going, cool.
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:33.440
We would like all our employees to be uh financially literate and have a good retirement at one point when they leave.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:36.160
So we're gonna educate them on, hey, did you know there's a problem?
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:45.599
And then we're gonna offer them this app as part of that, I guess free use of this app, which otherwise, if I just came in via the website, there's a I have to pay something.
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:47.440
Yeah, that's very interesting.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:53.839
So they're seeing it as a good um health and well-being is kind of financial well-being add-on benefit for their employees.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:58.319
Yeah, and then for them from a sustainability reporting point of view, it's important, right?
00:30:58.799 --> 00:30:59.839
And so they look after people.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:00.319
Correct.
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:01.200
So it's got that real.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:10.960
So there's sort of, I guess the business to explain it has this kind of flywheel effect where we've got the users who are the women and men and non-binary individuals who want to grow their wealth.
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:13.920
We've got employers who are helping deliver that to them.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:21.119
We've got the super funds who stand to gain, who want more money in their funds, and also want to engage audiences earlier.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:21.519
Yep.
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:22.559
That's what we're finding.
00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:32.799
There's been huge amounts running through the press lately talking about the mass exodus of traditional funds because funds are really struggling to deliver advice at scale.
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:47.359
And so that's part of our plan is to really um not so much personalize the advice because we are general advice um under our AFSL, but make sure that we're sequentially delivering that advice at a meaningful time to those.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:51.519
More palatable way, right?
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.519
Where someone is the TV and the brochure.
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:54.880
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:55.519
Exactly.
00:31:55.519 --> 00:32:01.200
So we've got those employers and then we've got the retailers who, again, as we've said, that's that fourth party.
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:13.759
They really want to be connecting with, you know, their big audience, which is women who are shopping there all the time and talk about something meaningful with them because loyalty programs are really all same same at the moment.
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:15.759
Yeah, and they get a little bit opaque.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:17.519
I'm not sure how much is a point worth.
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:17.920
Correct.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:21.440
And you can change at any time, but my points are worth.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:22.319
Well, that's it.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:27.839
I mean, the RBA has just delivered news that it is cutting those exchange fees in October of this year.
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:36.240
And the implication for that is that the fees that they normally take for that credit card is actually what's funding the value of those points.
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:39.359
So that infrastructure is about to take a real hit.
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:49.680
So they're going, okay, if I want loyalty, okay, if you're trying to build your super via when you spend, if you spend with us, we give you that 5% loading on your purchase fundamentally.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.640
Correct, correct.
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:51.599
So really that, you know.
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:52.880
It's like a cashback, really.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.279
It's we stick it in your super instead of give it to you.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:55.759
Correct.
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.400
And so it is, we think about it, it's not just five bucks, you know, it's what five bucks.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.640
It's five bucks down the track.
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:03.839
And that's different.
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:07.759
But again, the language in the way that we talk about that is different.
00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.839
Um, and we've really heard from the retailers, no, they don't like the words cashback.
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:12.640
It feels cheap.
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:32.319
So this is the marketing brain coming in and going, how can we make that for, you know, everything about the experience that we've designed at Tap the Gap is to suit all of those parties, you know, to help the women understand things, to make sure we're reflecting value for the retailer, to support the employer in what they want to achieve and making sure the super fund has that engagement.
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:34.480
Did you plan all this out on paper at the start?
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:37.839
Or did you start with, I've got an idea about the roundup?
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:43.200
And then slowly when you spoke to people, you went, Oh, I've got a here's an opportunity, here's a challenge, and you've figured it all out as you went.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:44.400
Yeah, good question.
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:50.880
So it did start, it did kind of change slightly because I started with the brand bonus part of it, which was the retailer part.
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:51.920
So you built only.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:52.400
Yep.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:54.079
Well, that's in my head before we actually.
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:55.759
The actual roundup wasn't there.
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:56.960
No, the roundup wasn't there.
00:33:57.680 --> 00:33:59.680
So it started as actually a loyalty program.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:02.000
But the reason, yeah, it started as loyalty.
00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:02.160
Yeah.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:12.880
And the reason that the loyalty then we switched is because through user research and testing, we know that in building these experiences, you want to see that progress and you want to see it quickly.
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:19.280
And when we did all the calculations, you know, cashback and wasn't going to add up to wasn't going to add up to as much, right?
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.119
You had to really be pushing a lot of that through to do it.
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:26.400
And actually the technology at the time didn't really support that.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:33.760
So we waited a bit longer and we're now using a slightly different tech, which is called Card Linked Rewards, where it does it all in the background.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:35.440
You don't need coupons, you don't need codes.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:38.719
No, as soon as there's coupons and codes, you're just tapping out, right?
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:49.440
So so now we've got that, but we we started with the roundup and actually we just sort of surveyed our recent users and we wanted to know did they come full roundup?
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:51.119
Did they come for brand bonus?
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:52.159
Did they come for learning?
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:57.199
A lot more than I thought came for the roundup because they can see seems like the simplest, most obvious.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:34:59.039
It's the simplest, most obvious.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:01.199
But again, we I can think and feel things.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.599
I need the data to tell me what's really happening.
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:08.719
So yeah, that's the one where you can see that sense of progress straight away.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:10.960
And that feels really good for a user, right?
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:14.480
And think about an app, you know, people don't hold on to apps, they never come back to them.
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:16.559
You've got to build that stickiness in.
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:20.719
And the brand bonus is kind of that sugar on top.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:25.440
One of the other things we wanted to be really conscious of was not encouraging women to shop more.
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:31.679
And I did get some of those questions from early investors and saying, oh, this kind of has got a weird vibe to it.
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:34.559
And I said, well, it's about the way you talk about that.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:40.639
And the reason that we built the features in that order was so that we're like, okay, this is your money.
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.679
And the retailer thing is on the back of that, right?
00:35:43.679 --> 00:35:44.800
It's a nice to have.
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:50.320
And again, the roundup is sustainable in the way that we're not encouraging you to shop more.
00:35:50.320 --> 00:35:55.119
If you're someone who makes 200 transactions in a week, you're going to round up based on that.
00:35:55.119 --> 00:36:00.800
If you're someone who, you know, earns less and maybe spends less, you're going to round up based on that.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:04.239
So it's about rewarding you for the spend that you're already doing.
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:04.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.639
Don't spend more.
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:09.840
So we're very different to a traditional rewards program.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:12.320
Who is the more you spend, the more you save.
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:14.480
Like ironic spending.
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:15.199
It's ironic.
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:16.960
And so I think that's it.
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:22.159
So when we say you're going to build wealth while you shop, it is a different way to build wealth.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.760
And we've been really conscious of that through our narrative.
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:27.760
I actually had a thought once.
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:32.320
You know, when you're sitting there and you're looking at something on your phone, you go, I want to buy it, I know I shouldn't.
00:36:32.320 --> 00:36:33.760
I want to buy it, I know I shouldn't.
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:36.320
I've actually thought, you know what I need to do?
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:37.679
Let's say it's 50 bucks.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:41.199
I'm going to not buy that and I'll put 50 bucks in my super.
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.760
So actually give myself a diversion from the impulse purchase.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:46.960
I love that.
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.960
Now instead of because just not spending it doesn't come up with a great feel.
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:56.239
The idea that all right, I now did spend that money on something better, something that I have for the future.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:07.039
That's just a little idea I had once for myself to bring in my own bad behavior, occasional, I'm not a great job, but so that is definitely a feature.
00:37:07.199 --> 00:37:09.199
Well, an impulse job, and I look, I love that.
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:11.840
Um, that might be something we'll put in our backpack to look at it.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:19.440
Um but I do think there are, you know, there's little features like that, that topping up or wanting to put something in at the end of a piece.
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:29.519
You know, I had a a user who we did user research with, and she had shared that she made a goal for herself that every time she shopped and bought something, she put the same amount into a savings fund.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:29.920
Right.
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:30.159
Yeah.
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.760
And it actually changed her behavior in that moment because it made her think really hard, do I really need this?
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.280
Yeah, and it's costing twice the price.
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:39.280
And it's costing twice the price.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:44.800
I mean, then she was funny and laughed about it um afterwards saying, Oh, it really helped me save up, you know, for my sauna.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:45.920
And I'm like, okay.
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.639
Yeah, but now you've got to put the whole sauna's worth in.
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:49.679
Yeah, that's true.
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:51.760
I think she, I think we cut the pattern by then.
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:55.119
So look, again, that talks about behavior, right?
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:59.920
And it's different from going, oh, it's just a feature in a fintech app.
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:18.239
So what we want to do, and obviously we're in market for four months, and you know, this is where we're just starting, but there's a huge amount that we can do in terms of understanding that behavior that consumers are going through as they're shopping, making purchase decisions, and then being able to communicate with them in a meaningful way.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:23.360
Such a fascinating space because we all know impulse shopping, and now we got, you know, one click.
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:26.719
It used to be I had to go to the bank and get money out, then I could go to an ADM.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:28.320
Now then I could just tap it.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.480
Now I can just sit in my phone and double click the side of it.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.519
It just gets easier and easier and easier to spend money.
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.719
And the psychology around this is just fascinating.
00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:43.199
The fact that you're trying to essentially insert the concept of super, and why don't you think about your future and use these psychologies?
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:44.559
I just think it's awesome.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:50.880
Have you found with your uptake that there's a certain demographic that just goes for it way more than others, or is it just scattered?
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:52.639
Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:38:52.639 --> 00:39:02.159
So traditionally, and I know from working in the super industry, like working on a super client, you'll get women late 30s to 40s who are more engaged in the super.
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:03.199
They've woken up to the problem.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:04.400
They've woken up to the problem.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:12.960
They might have a few kids, or they've, you know, they've moved, they're in a more serious job, they're trying to think about their finances a bit more, what stage they're at.
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:17.920
So there's real milestones in life that you know trigger conversations about super.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.480
When I turn 40, when I turn 50, these are.
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:21.679
Taking maternity leave, is it?
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:23.519
Taking maternity leave, exactly.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:35.199
But what's been really encouraging in some of these early employers is that we're seeing women who are 19, 21, really, 24, 26, signing up and going, This is awesome.
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:39.840
Like had a young girl come and say, Thank you so much for talking to me about this.
00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:41.519
I'm going to tell all my cousins.
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:43.039
And I'm like, I love that.
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:44.800
I've got a lot of cousins as well.
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:51.199
But, you know, and another girl who said, Oh, look, I just had no idea that this is how it worked.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:55.039
And I need to go and talk to my family about this.
00:39:55.039 --> 00:39:58.960
So it's this realization, and I'm very well aware that.
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:00.559
So that's what's exciting.
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.039
So the traditional path of people engaging their super is later, right?
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:07.280
Yeah, and that you're talking 10 to 20 years later.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:07.599
Yeah.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:09.440
That's 10 to 20 years of compound.
00:40:09.760 --> 00:40:10.239
Compound interest.
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:10.400
Yeah.
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:11.199
I love that you say that.
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:11.599
I love this.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:12.320
It's great.
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:13.519
Um let's say it again.
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:15.599
Yeah, compound interest.
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:16.639
It's just so sexy.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:20.880
It was not it was somewhat called one of the the most powerful force in the universe, didn't they?
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:22.880
Pretty much, pretty much, right?
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.360
And you know, I think we need that on a t-shirt.
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:34.400
But yeah, so what's exciting is I think because we're coming in that other avenue, which is about inequality, it is about independence for women.
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:38.719
And they can see that, and this is a pathway for them.
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:48.000
So that's what really excites me because if we can change that general age that someone connects with their super, if you understand super, you understand wealth.
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:48.960
You'll understand money.
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:51.280
And you understand investing, right?
00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:59.119
So if you through the gap, by educating women and getting them to engage with super, we're teaching them how to invest.
00:40:59.119 --> 00:40:59.679
Really.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.039
But there's a step back there.
00:41:01.039 --> 00:41:08.159
It's actually to what you say, if you wait till people are 30 or 40, that's when you're educating them on super when they've gotten interested.
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:12.960
When you're talking to 19-year-olds, people hitting their first job, this is a big change point for them.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:22.800
And you're actually talking about equality and fairness and whether they are gonna have the same career path and the same opportunities, you're talking about a very different thing.
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:26.159
Independence, independence, fairness, equality, those things.
00:41:26.159 --> 00:41:34.880
Those are far more powerful and motive things to start with, and then go, well, that one of the number one places that you're gonna lose your independence and lose your equality is around money.
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:43.039
So I know it's boring at this point, but let's talk about one simple thing you sign right now that will give you that independence and fairness for the rest of your life.
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:51.679
That is a very powerful move to shift people back 10 to 20 years and enter in on an emotive issue rather than let me talk to you about money.
00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:52.320
Exactly.
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:56.559
And that's what is yeah, that's just what is wildly exciting.
00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:02.800
That's what gets me through the long hours that is running a startup, which is way harder than I thought it would be.
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:03.679
Tell me about it.
00:42:03.679 --> 00:42:05.599
Oh that's actually my next question.
00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:06.400
Okay.
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.960
It's a there's a couple of them, but I'll go with the one that goes.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:12.000
What's the most unglamorous thing about running a startup?
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:25.039
It's a bit of a bummer question, but look, I think I think there's a lot of gloss out there on Instagram, and you know, I'm running a startup and it's all just fabulous, which it is in the sense that it brings me great joy every day, and I love the energy of it.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:29.599
The most unglamorous thing about a startup is doing all of the jobs.
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:48.880
So you're doing, you know, the finances and you've got people to help you with things, but at the end of the day, you're doing numbers, you're worried about security, you're um looking at marketing, sales funnels, you're learning all of these new tools that you're having to do.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:53.840
And probably the hardest thing is knowing that it ends with you.
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:58.239
Like if you don't have someone on the payroll to be doing that job, you just gotta learn it.
00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:58.800
You're doing it.
00:42:58.960 --> 00:42:59.599
You're doing it.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:42:59.920
Yeah.
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:02.000
There's greatness in that.
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:06.239
And there's I love learning, like I've always been a learner.
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:07.440
I do love that about it.
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:25.360
But there's some weeks where I'm like, wow, I would love to be doing something that I actually don't have to learn right now, you know, especially when you come from a career at the time when I moved out of my career, where I was sort of at the top of my career and was really confident going to this learning curve where I had to learn a lot really quickly.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.920
And I'd probably say there's 20% of my job right now, which is my old skill set.
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.480
80% of your skill set is now new.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:33.679
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.280
You better want to do it, eh?
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:36.559
Yeah, yeah, that's right.
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:38.320
Um, that must take a lot of time too.
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:38.880
It does.
00:43:38.880 --> 00:43:41.519
So that unglamorous side is probably the hours.
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:43.840
Like I do work a huge amount of hours.
00:43:44.079 --> 00:43:45.840
I do know you emailed me at 8 a.m.
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:47.440
on a Sunday last week.
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:48.719
Loser alert.
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:49.920
And an equal loser.
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:51.679
I actually received it at about 8 05.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:52.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:59.760
I look, I think for me, I'm going, I'm in that state at the moment where I go when I think about it, if I send it, you know, I do schedule send some.
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:31.920
of the time but sometimes you can get people in those windows and yeah I like to try and get back to everyone and yeah it's a lot but I love the flexibility of I was gonna say what's the glamorous bit come on it's got to be a glamour the glamorous bit is uh for me it's just meeting people you know like I just am getting to meet people from all walks of life whether that's users whether that's potential investors I'm talking to retail partners and just really interesting women in the space of equality for women.
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:47.199
I've had so many people reach out to me offering to help what can I do to help and support you who can I introduce you to and that's that energy is phenomenal and I love that I love that sense of community because that's what women are good at, right?
00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:59.679
Like that is something that separates female founders I think from the rest of the pack and we have to lean into that and you know our strength is building community and connecting with people emotionally.
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:11.119
So yeah for me that's the most glamorous part I feel like going to an event or just going to have a coffee with someone new is yeah I'm really grateful for that because that brings richness to my world.
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:39.519
I like I mean um having worked in sustainability purpose impact caller what on the earth you will for about over 20 years now I've I've found that too uh number one I've it's a very female space I must agree with you like there's got to be 70 to 80% females in the do let's help make the world better um sort of industry if you like but also found to your point the galvanizing power of a mission or a cause yeah like if you're just sitting sound to someone to go how are we going to make some money?
00:45:39.519 --> 00:46:00.639
It's all right but it's you know it's transactional when you're sitting around to talk about a cause the various um you know root causes of that what are the new methods in what's worked what hasn't it excites people yeah it is it's it's balm for the soul and you know I you know I think that there's that whole thing Dan Pink of you know people want mastery um purpose mastery and autonomy.
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:19.840
Yes I want to do something I believe in I want to be able to get good at and I want to be able to give in the chance to learn and pioneer it myself and I think there's so much in that for people that's lost and to me I agree it's that is the thing that fundamentally gets you back up every day because it is hard right changing the world for the better is hard.
00:46:20.079 --> 00:46:40.719
Man it's hard yeah it is really hard yeah you know and there are I would say there's only been really a handful of days where I've thought oh I can't do this but I I've kind of taught myself to think that's not going to serve you and it's not going to serve the people you're trying to help for you to doubt yourself, you know, and to sit in that too long.
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:47.519
I think there's days where you can go this is really hard and challenging and I don't know the thing but the kind of I can't do this.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:51.760
I'm gonna give up I have to look behind me and go, well look what I've done already.
00:46:51.760 --> 00:47:07.840
And that that is the thing that keeps me moving forward you know and I've had to do that you know maybe in the last week or so going oh wow we're moving at this pace and we're getting more people around us and different types of investment and you know I'm doing all the jobs.
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:25.599
But when I get an email back from a user who says oh my gosh thank you so much and they've talked to me about the fact that they're really struggling and they're concerned about their super and you know like I'm getting kind of part of their life story on an email and they're like thank you for doing this that fills me with hope, right?
00:47:25.599 --> 00:47:37.119
I just need to take that bottle that and amplify it at scale because yeah can we we can bring that humanity to a technical experience and that's where we can create change.
00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:46.880
Joe I have the same experience running this podcast is maybe once a month someone either rings me or sends me an email saying I I really like this please keep going.
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:49.679
And it's one a month keeps me going for the next month.
00:47:49.920 --> 00:48:06.000
Yeah that does it does keep me going and I think yeah I think just hearing validation from employers who are saying this is really important from other people out there in the world I know the reality is you can have a great idea but bringing it to life is the challenge, right?
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.159
And the execution is the hardest part of it.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:12.239
You're not really sure if you've got a great idea until you've tried to execute it.
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:14.079
That's correct that's true.
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:26.800
And will people pay for it and what's going to happen next but I think look all you can do is show up as yourself authentically own what you know own what you don't know and try and get the best people around you.
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:35.920
That's one of the things that I think I really value is authentic people who do have their heart in the right place, do share the same values with you.
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:43.119
And yeah ultimately I want this company to be a huge commercial success because if it is, we can keep going.
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:47.199
You know, if it's not a success, then we stop in our mission.
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:57.599
So it's absolutely imperative that this is a commercial venture that is going to make money for my investors and that is going to operate in a really positive capacity.
00:48:57.599 --> 00:49:06.159
Otherwise it's not a charity like this is a business I want it to succeed in the way and that's what we're shaping it to do to be a financially a success story.
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.559
I don't find that in any way controversial.
00:49:08.559 --> 00:49:17.840
I'm in the Mark Kramer school of thought that if you can I wish the world didn't work like this but it does if you can generate income out of doing good it gives you fuel to do more good.
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:25.519
And I I really like that that shortcut is profit fuels purpose people have said having said that some people are uncomfortable with that.
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:34.000
Hang on a second you shouldn't really be making money out of doing good which I I think is the old way but what is your response when you get those sort of people say things like that.
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:42.880
That's a that's interesting I I I can understand why people say you shouldn't be making money out of doing good things.
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:48.639
But the reality is that when you are making money you can continue to do that good.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.079
You've just said it yourself.
00:49:50.079 --> 00:49:57.119
So I think when you get in it for the right reasons and there's upside to that, then great.
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:03.599
I think people shouldn't shy away from that like I'm open about wanting to be financially successful.
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:14.159
I actually want to make money so I can go and help more female founders run their businesses or have greater impact with the money I've got and affect decisions in the world.
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:17.920
It all comes back to like money does create power in the world.
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:19.679
We can't be naive about that.
00:50:19.679 --> 00:50:27.119
So I want it to allow women to create that power for themselves in the way that they control their own finances and the way that they grow wealth.
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:37.519
And you know if you look at all the data out there, like it's really hard to run a social enterprise that is making money, you know, in the world out there it is really challenging.
00:50:37.519 --> 00:50:43.840
So part of what we're doing at Tap the Gap is knowing that our mission is never going to change.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:48.400
But yeah, making money is the part of it that proves that you're really good at what you do.
00:50:48.639 --> 00:50:49.440
It's also the fuel.
00:50:49.440 --> 00:50:49.840
Yeah.
00:50:49.840 --> 00:51:02.239
It's a I think it's such a it's just such an important question because if you're not prepared to make money you don't have as much fuel as as other ventures which means you cannot be successful as successful as the one that isn't doing good.
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:04.559
And that to me leads me naturally down the path.
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:10.079
So if I can't make money doing good, does that mean I have to do bad to make money and that doesn't seem like the world I want to live in.
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:11.599
That's that's exactly right.
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:31.119
I love that framing actually yeah like I'd love a world that worked in that way and there's so much dirty money out there right like and there's so much money being made especially in tech that yeah sure it's making heaps of money but isn't really having an impact you know it's not is it making the world better is it making the world better over just for a couple of billionaires.
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:50.719
Is it making the world better or is it just making more money for the people who have money already you know like I'd love to come out of tap the gap by saying here's this company I've made a huge amount of money in this company and at the same time I've helped millions of Australian women make money for themselves and that's that what they've done.
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:52.159
Sounds like a pretty good story to me.
00:51:52.400 --> 00:51:53.519
Yeah that will be my story.
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:59.280
Hopefully I can come back in several years' time and um I'm looking yeah close close the end of that book.
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:22.880
Now I'm gonna give you a few quick fire because you've got investors to talk to you've got customers to work with I can't have you all day as much as I love to um so what's one thing people are surprised to learn about you um people be surprised to learn about me probably that I used to be really good at maths.
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:25.519
Great I used to be really good at math.
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:52.960
So great at maths to advertising creative yeah tech entrepreneur tech entrevist right now people would go okay you know are you getting that on the numbers probably because I enjoy creativity more than you know a spreadsheet but I think the maths the love of maths is that problem solving mentality that comes through and I love solving a problem.
00:52:52.960 --> 00:53:05.840
So that's where the kind of maths and creativity came together and I do love structure around things even though I'm not the world's most organized individual but the structure yeah there's parts of it.
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:11.280
So and I've got better at my maths I mean my CFO might have another opinion but that's what they're there for.
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:23.039
Exactly but look I've had to learn a whole new set of financial skills right and you know I've worked through with my CFO and understand that business model because in the end it stops with me.
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:38.400
I've got to understand every aspect of the company which I do now and the reason that I learnt no code was to have the confidence not to build the tech myself but be able to ask the hard questions and make sure that no one was taking advantage of me from a build point of view.
00:53:38.400 --> 00:53:45.280
And so that confidence knowing that skill I learn a skill so that I can be confident to ask the right questions.
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:45.519
Yeah.
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:54.480
Knowing that I don't necessarily have to execute that skill every day but the person I hire to do that and the way that has an implication in the business I understand.
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:55.519
Very good.
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:58.960
So it's just it's back to being a CEO you got to know a little bit about everything.
00:53:58.960 --> 00:54:02.159
A little bit about everything so you can hire people who know a lot more about everything.
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:22.400
Correct the doers yeah the work of these powerful skill that you think you bring to the table as an entrepreneur I think my most powerful skill as an entrepreneur is the ability to see the human experience.
00:54:23.119 --> 00:54:29.199
And that's through talking to people, getting to know people and understand what they're going through.
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:35.760
And that sounds quite strange when we're talking about tech but all tech comes from a human.
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:50.880
And I think that's one of the key skills that I've learned in terms of software development is how to really listen and not be blinded by your own bias and look at the data and listen to the people that are using it and make decisions based on that very good.
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:59.280
Now if I was to offer you a single use magic wand so you only get one wish with it which of course you would say there's no way I'm taking single use thing.
00:54:59.280 --> 00:55:02.000
No but let's say it was recyclable or rechargeable.
00:55:02.000 --> 00:55:05.119
I've got a rechargeable magic use one and I let you use it.
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:06.880
Yeah what would you use it for?
00:55:06.880 --> 00:55:08.559
What would you change in the world?
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:12.960
Sounds controversial but I would take away mobile phones.
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:45.760
Wow I I I'm almost with I'd take away social media I don't think I take away mobile phones like it's I I want the maps and I want my phone you know what that's probably a thing I think I would take I would I would take away social media I think and look a lot of people say that but I've got two teenage girls in my house and me too I just you know I talked about my childhood where you know I climbed trees and we rode bikes and you know we're in the park until sundown and my kids do that to an extent.
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:48.159
Yeah there's e-bikes that do 60k an hour.
00:55:48.320 --> 00:56:10.000
Yeah there's no e-bikes in our house to meet my husband but yeah I just think the creativity and this is the challenge for the next frontier of workers is that with AI, your core skills will be creativity and your ability to critically analyze information and make decisions on that right in terms of is this right?
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:13.920
Yes the AI can do it for me but I have to problem solve I have to know what to ask it.
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.159
I have to know how to have a problem I need to solve.
00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:23.599
Yeah so I just feel like our next generation of kids they're missing that they don't have this sense of wonderment.
00:56:23.920 --> 00:56:56.480
Interesting the thing I've noticed with my daughters on that is like I mean I'm just as bad quite frankly but I've noticed literally they crave time they'll fight you on screen you know access and if you try to set up you know they can only have this much but when you go away and there's no reception you watch their nervous systems calm down you watch them go that was a really good week it's it's almost like it's like exercise right yeah you know you're gonna feel good afterwards you still don't do it and then afterwards you're like I'm so glad I did it but it's um that's exactly right.
00:56:56.639 --> 00:57:04.159
So yeah I think with my magic wand I would I would take that away or maybe I go I just take it away have you seen Ready Player One the movie?
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:05.039
It's a great movie.
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:18.400
No I haven't it's about it's more about the you know everyone lives in a virtual reality world most of their lives because the planet's terrible yeah but it's funny when it it they I don't want to ruin it because it's a really good movie but eventually it ends up in there's forced days off.
00:57:18.960 --> 00:57:19.280
Okay.
00:57:19.760 --> 00:57:22.960
Which is very unpopular but everyone recognizes that it's better for them.
00:57:23.199 --> 00:57:40.960
Okay, okay I see that well yeah and look maybe we take it away for a certain amount of time but I just yeah I feel like that human communication is missing you know that the way that kids communicate with each other and learn about themselves and learn how to make friends is is different.
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:51.599
Maybe it's a bit of both because I'm also impressed by how they use the tech sometimes like my daughter's just like blah blah blah quick message they almost took like video walkie-talkies so they're always in context.
00:57:51.599 --> 00:58:04.880
So they have this beautiful connection but if it's all that I agree you've lost that yeah it's just like how do you how do you same even social media you know like the fact that I can stay connected with people who I will see once every five years is really good.
00:58:04.880 --> 00:58:07.760
It is really but there's me sitting there doom scrolling is really bad.
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:10.960
It's like how do I get the good and not the bad yeah it is tricky.
00:58:11.119 --> 00:58:11.760
It is tricky.
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:28.000
So yeah that would probably be one of those things creativity and connection that's another t-shirt okay I'll come back to you on that okay the world needs more people like you doing more things like this somebody who listens in and goes I want to be like Lucy where do they begin what do they do?
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:36.960
Oh great so start and you know write write down your idea what you're thinking of and then just start talking to people.
00:58:36.960 --> 00:58:50.639
When it starts with the beginning starts with the beginning get creative and start connecting start connecting that's exactly right and I think if you've got an idea the biggest thing about it is find out everything around that topic.
00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:58.320
So don't tell people about your idea go out and talk to them around that topic and what their biggest challenges are, what they've noticed.
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:09.519
Tell me about the last time you tried to put money in your super what happened like or tell me about your earliest memory of money is where I started my conversations and it grew from there.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:21.119
So one of the biggest learnings I had reading someone recommended I read the Mum testan book but it's how to create a great customer interview and it's called the Mom M O M.
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:27.119
But the Mum test in terms of you've went to your mom and said Mom I've got this great idea blah blah blah she goes that's great time.
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:40.320
Yeah you know of course you will because she's your mum so this is how to ask those questions where you're not getting a bias opinion from someone that likes you and you could talk to your friends but don't tell them what your idea is.
00:59:40.559 --> 00:59:41.760
Don't ask them about their problem.
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:46.960
Ask them about their problem keep your idea inside and then you work around it from that.
00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:48.719
Good advice thank you very much.
00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:52.239
So yeah well thank you for spending time with us that was wonderful.
00:59:52.719 --> 00:59:53.679
Thanks so much for having me.
00:59:54.000 --> 01:00:13.280
If somebody is 19 or 30 or 40 or 55 male female non-binary whoever they are and they want more super and start to engage learn about this and get some um nice little bonuses from their favorite brands yes they go to tapthecap.com.au and you can download our web app.
01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:22.639
So yeah jump on in and there's a free trial of Roundups and um you can connect to brand bonus for free and all the education is free as well.
01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:23.280
Great.
01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:37.039
And if I want to follow you on my favorite social media channel so that I learn something useful out of social media instead of just looking at inane cat videos you can go to find me, look for me, Lucy Q on LinkedIn.
01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:38.320
Could you spell that for us?
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:47.280
It is L-U-C-Y-K-O-U-G-H look me up on LinkedIn or at Instagram we are tap dot the gap that's our handle.
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:56.559
So yeah look us up and yeah any questions things you want to say jump on in try it we'd love to hear from all of our users and potential users.
01:00:56.559 --> 01:01:05.280
And if you're an employer who is really keen to bring financial literacy to your people come and chat to us got all of that ready to go.
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:13.119
And if you are potentially someone who's looking to invest in an impact based startup like ourselves yeah we'd love to hear from you as well.
01:01:13.360 --> 01:01:13.920
Fantastic.
01:01:14.159 --> 01:01:24.960
Great okay I look forward to hearing about all your future success thank you thank you for having me pleasure great I'm gonna change this world today make those bad things go away