00:00:13
S1: You might know her best from Shaun Micallef's Mad as Hell. But over the past 20 years, Christie Whelan Browne has become one of the most in-demand stars of the Australian stage, appearing in everything from Britney Spears, The Cabaret to the producers, not to mention Shane Warne The Musical and Muriel's Wedding. But the thing that has kept her in the headlines is no laughing matter. The allegations of sexual harassment she made against her Rocky Horror Show co-star Craig McLachlan in late 2017. It's taken a toll, professionally and personally, but as she reveals in today's episode, she'd do it again. I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, featuring weekly in-depth conversations with fascinating people. Today, we'll. And Brown takes a break from rehearsing a musical version of All About Eve, in which she'll play four roles. To chat about everything from our shifting attitudes to Britney to the genius of McAuliffe, the joy of an IVF baby, and the stress of living through three very public court cases over six years. Today's episode is hosted by senior culture writer Carl Quinn.
00:01:24
S2: Thank you, Conrad. And Christy Whelan Brown, welcome to the studio.
00:01:29
S3: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:01:30
S2: It's a pleasure. You're doing a reprisal of the cabaret show Britney Spears. When did you last do it?
00:01:38
S3: Maybe two years.
00:01:39
S2: Oh, okay. Okay. But there was a gap. There was a long gap. Right?
00:01:42
S3: Well, we we've actually tended to do it most years since its incarnation in 2009.
00:01:48
S2: Really? Yeah. Okay.
00:01:50
S3: And the show just continues to be relevant. And I think it was quite ahead of its time in 2009. And that is evident by the way people react, which has changed severely over the years.
00:02:01
S2: So has the show changed over the years?
00:02:03
S3: Not at all. Not at all, no. We change about two lines at the end of the show to make it relevant to what's happening today. But the show, as you know, 98% of it remains what it was in 2009.
00:02:15
S2: Why do you think it's relevant and why? How do you think the relevance has shifted?
00:02:20
S3: Well, I think at the time of Britney's breakdown, we all viewed her breakdown as entertainment. We watched it on the front of tabloids. We watched her shave her head and hit paparazzi with umbrellas and, um, crying, holding her children, driving with her children on her lap. Uh, you know, we watched it all. We couldn't look away. It was like a car crash. That was this pop icon that was so young and beautiful and perfect in everyone's eyes. It was just all falling apart. And we watched it. Um, yeah, as I say, as entertainment and fodder. And and Dean told the story through her eyes from her perspective, which I don't think anyone was thinking about or looking at at that time. And so when I performed at, people still laughed heartily at that, at her being put into a mental institution and being put under conservatorship. People would roar with laughter. And I remember thinking, what are they laughing at? Uh, but I now know that they probably felt uncomfortable. Um, but nowadays it's mostly met with silence, those parts of the show, because I think we realize that this young woman who had the world at her fingertips, how quickly we all turned and, and watched our mental health crisis and didn't seem like anyone was stepping in to help. Mhm. Um, which just I don't think would happen in this day and age.
00:03:50
S2: Well, it's interesting because it was it feels like the Britney meltdown was peak TMZ, right? It was that kind of that intrusive presence of the, the internet version of tabloid media in in the personal lives of the famous.
00:04:04
S3: Yeah.
00:04:05
S2: I don't know that I'd agree with you that that it wouldn't happen today. I, I kind of I kind of wonder if that's right.
00:04:10
S3: Well, for example, the football player on the weekend who, who was clearly struggling, uh, people's reaction was this man needs help and everyone needs to get on board with that and the club needs to step in. Whereas at this time, it was like, look at her. She's lost it.
00:04:28
S2: Yeah. That's fair, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. She's I mean, she's back in the news just in the last week or two. Right. Yeah. I mean, she's, um, just gone back into rehab, um, after being pulled over for DUI again. I mean, the Britney saga is, you know, it's continually evolving. Why not update the show to reflect that?
00:04:49
S3: I think we think of it as a moment in time. Mhm. Um, and it talks about all the main events. And now what I, what I say at the end of each show that's different is we say what she's doing now, which is either dancing on Instagram or um, obviously this time it will be I'm going to rehab. But we try and say that her purpose is obviously, I don't know, I don't know, I've never spoken to her, but that her purpose is to be happy and to find a way through this. And so that's really that's our ending of the show, is that she ends up happy and she ends up finding a way through. And that might be idealistic, but that is my dream for Brittany.
00:05:30
S2: Did you come at it as a fan?
00:05:33
S3: Oh yeah. My cat was named Britney Spears and I knew every song and Dean knew Dean again, loved this.
00:05:41
S2: Is.
00:05:41
S3: Brittany Dean Bryant, the writer and director. He knew and loved Brittany as well. And but he didn't know my love and obsession with her. Um, so he called and asked if I would be interested in doing it. And I think we both thought it would be a fun, pop, silly show. But each time he'd deliver, he delivered the show to me. Monologue by monologue, and they were quite dark and, uh, a dark look at a family who put their children into entertainment in a very young age and moved the family over different parts of the country to, to make fame a, a goal. And, um, the more we, we looked into it, the darker and sadder it became. And Dean is not afraid to lean into that. So that's what we did. It's not what we expected. It's probably not what audiences audiences expected. But, you know, I think it was an important story to tell then, even if it wasn't received in the right way. And that's why I say he was ahead of his time. Because now I think it's very poignant. It always was. But now the reaction in this day and age is very different.
00:06:46
S2: We're recording this just as, uh, the Michael Jackson movie is opening, which is, which is another story about some somebody growing up in a showbiz family, very much in the public eye and, you know, being, having, I guess not, not exactly the same kind of issues, but certainly unraveling before the public's eyes in some ways. Do you think it's do you think there's something intrinsic in sort of showbiz families that's a little bit problematic.
00:07:11
S3: Dare I say? I don't know that it's an American thing, but over there, you know, the the leap from poverty to fame to fame and fortune is it can happen overnight. And I think that it's, you know, yeah, you read many stories about the children who were performing and acting and supporting an entire family, which is such a huge amount of pressure. And yeah, I mean, I'm grateful that I don't have showbiz parents in any respect. Um, and that, yeah, that, that pressure only ever came from myself. I can't imagine how it would feel coming, you know, relying on you to feed your family at a, at a young age. Doesn't seem fair.
00:07:53
S2: Mhm. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your your growing up and when you discovered the, the acting bug or the performing bug.
00:08:00
S3: I grew up in a very, um, big sporting family. We were a big basketball family and no one performed or danced or sung. But my best friend Georgie Austin, shout out Georgie! She did, uh, go to dancing. And I wanted to do whatever she did because I just adored her. So I went along to the local dance school, but it happened to be like a really strict and like hardcore dance school.
00:08:26
S2: What age are we talking here?
00:08:27
S3: Uh, nine. Okay. And I danced for a couple of years at this. You know, I was I was never a great dancer, but I, I did enjoy it, but I one day my dance teacher said, can you sing? We had to do solos. And I said.
00:08:41
S2: Was that a failed cause? Can you sing cause you can't dance?
00:08:45
S3: No, because you had to do a song and dance routine. And I said, I'm not sure. And so she said to the pianist, just play Happy Birthday. And he did, and I sang, and I remember my teacher and my mum looking at each other like. And I thought, oh, maybe I can sing.
00:08:58
S2: Had your mum never heard you sing?
00:08:59
S3: No. Not, I guess, in that sort of way. Um, and then I did my high school musicals, um, and loved those much more than I did schoolwork. I was never a very academic person. And when I finished high school, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life because I never thought that being an actor was something that was possible. And I'm sure my parents felt the same way. They were like, you go to uni and, you know, and I was like, oh, an agent came along to one of my amateur productions and they want to sign me and they're going to send me on auditions. And everyone was like, okay, it me included. I just liked going along for the experience of it, but I never thought it would lead anywhere. So it really all just fell into place for me. Um, yeah, there was no grand plan or, you know, that's why now I love being a mentor to young people because I wish I'd had that, you know, or someone, even someone saying it's possible for you to do this as a job.
00:09:59
S2: So you've come here from, uh, from the rehearsal space, uh, from, uh, Malthouse, right. Where you've been doing auditions for All About Eve, which are in later in the year. When is that? That's in.
00:10:09
S3: November.
00:10:10
S2: November, right. That's that's a long lead, right? Yeah, yeah. So, um, you're obviously cast, you're on the poster. So, so you're not auditioning, but so talk us through that. What, what is that like? What are you, what are you doing in that audition process?
00:10:23
S3: Well, we're casting all the other roles, so I'm playing two roles, maybe even four roles. It's, it's going to be quite a task for me.
00:10:30
S2: Maybe even four.
00:10:31
S3: Yeah, it is four. It's either 4 or 5, actually. But, uh, Dean who wrote Brittany and directed that for me, we've obviously collaborated for over 15 years and he knew I was looking for a challenge. And so this is definitely, um, he definitely delivered on that. So I'm, as we're auditioning people, I'm trying to work out how I'll get around playing lots of different people. And yeah, I, it's just, it's quite stressful when other actors come in, you see that they've prepped, they've done their hair and makeup. They've, you know, they've thought about it. They might have watched the movie. Like they've put so much effort in and I'm trying to give them everything I can see. They're nervous. And it's just I take on the the feelings, obviously, because I know what it's like. So, um, yeah, that's been my day to day.
00:11:21
S2: Have you, are you kind of an older stateswoman of, of, of the theater scene now do you think?
00:11:26
S3: Isn't that so funny?
00:11:28
S2: I'm sorry to use the.
00:11:30
S3: No, but I actually just said to my husband, I had an audition for a big musical yesterday. And, um, so.
00:11:37
S2: You're still on the, the other side of that chair?
00:11:40
S3: Yes. Of course. Oh, this is an international production. So I, I remember auditioning for the producers in what must have been like 2007 or something, maybe, maybe 2004, I don't know, but I was young and green and I had no idea what I was doing. I wore the wrong outfit. Mel Brooks was there for the final callback. Wow. And I had to do these fouetté turns on my left leg. I didn't know what I was doing, you know? But I remember Chloe Dallimore, who played Ulla being whisked. You know, we just saw her being whisked from one side to the other and. And I said to my husband, I was whisked, you know, there was a group of people dancing, but I was whisked. And I said, I've gone from watching the whisker to being whisked. And so that felt like at least something, some sort of growth.
00:12:27
S2: Well, you've been, you've been around for a long time. You've been a, you know, I think much loved in the theatre scene. Um, I think I first met you on at a casting call or not a casting call, a media call for Xanadu down in Docklands a long time ago. You were. And you you're a tall woman. You're very tall on roller skates. I've got to say.
00:12:47
S3: Exactly. They find it hard enough to find a leading man to go next to me, let alone on skates. Uh, but but yeah. Xanadu, the ill fated Xanadu.
00:12:55
S2: Ill fated.
00:12:55
S3: Xanadu.
00:12:56
S2: Who could never have predicted that would not work out.
00:12:59
S3: I remember being in that tent. It was in a circus tent. Um, but it was directly under a flight path. And so you'd be doing a show and just helicopter it. You'd have to be shouting the lines even louder just so anyone could hear. Oh, it was a nightmare.
00:13:14
S2: Was it fun?
00:13:15
S3: Yeah. Oh, we had so much fun. Yeah, it was my. It was actually my first time, actually, maybe the only time where I've been the leading lady of a musical. Like my face on the poster. And it was a monumental flop. We were supposed to run for nine months, and I think we were four weeks.
00:13:35
S2: Right.
00:13:36
S3: So the face of a flop, right? I remember.
00:13:39
S2: Is that seriously the only time you've been the face on a poster?
00:13:42
S3: I think so.
00:13:43
S2: All about Eve will be.
00:13:44
S3: Yes, yes. You're right.
00:13:45
S2: Let's hope that's not an omen.
00:13:48
S3: It only runs for four weeks, so. But I remember.
00:13:51
S2: Closing after two.
00:13:53
S3: I remember the opening night of Xanadu being on stage with Olivia Newton-John holding hands, singing Xanadu. 2000 people on their feet. It was like a moment. And then the next night, 80 people. No, the reviews were good, but 80 people, tumbleweeds, you know. And I thought, wow, shit, we're in trouble.
00:14:12
S2: 80 people. That would be heartbreaking.
00:14:15
S3: Yeah.
00:14:15
S2: What do you do? How do you how do you go on and perform when like the you've just got a sea of empty seats.
00:14:21
S3: It's the camaraderie of a a cast. You know, we held each other together and we made our own fun. Sometimes too much fun because, you know, the place was falling down around the the roof of the tent was leaking. There was there was only one disgusting portaloo for us all to use. It was muddy. It was like, you know, everything that could go wrong could. So we just we just banded together.
00:14:55
S2: I do want to ask you about the Rocky Horror experience, and I don't know how much you can say, because obviously there have been court cases and, you know, legal settlements and so on. That was a big part of your life that was lived out in the public eye with a lot of nasty things going back and forth. I mean, what was it like to actually live through that?
00:15:16
S3: Uh, tiring. Mhm. And, um, yeah, I sometimes, I often wonder, you know, what the cost of it is, what the cost of speaking up like that was. And even today, the cost continues to be there. Um.
00:15:32
S2: In what way?
00:15:33
S3: Uh, in that the, the man has started a podcast and continues to spit vitriol and therefore sends trolls in my direction and, and abuse and threats. And so each day, seeing those things, sometimes you've just got the capability to block, delete, move on, you know, but some days you don't. And, um, so the cost is ongoing. Um, and I recently said to my husband, you know, I sometimes wonder what life would have looked like if, if I'd never, um, gone down that path of, of speaking up and trying to make a change. And he said, well, I know you and I know you couldn't have lived with that. He said, there's also a cost to not.
00:16:24
S2: Yeah.
00:16:25
S3: So yeah, I think, um it was something that just had to happen. And um, I, I've said this before, women have been fighting the good fight for forever. I'm not the first and I won't be the last. And I just played my part and yeah, did what I had to do.
00:16:42
S2: Mhm. I think you've probably answered it in some ways, but if you had your time back, would you do it again? Do you think?
00:16:48
S3: I think I'd probably pause for thought. Um, but I think my biggest fear around that time was that it happened at the time in my life where I wanted to have a baby, and then that was proving incredibly difficult because of the strain my life was under. Um, and I did have my baby and I, you know, I had a beautiful IVF miracle boy and he's the light of our lives. And so, um, you know, I, I regret nothing because, um, I know I'm exactly where I am today being his mum.
00:17:22
S2: Mhm. Did you ever imagine yourself as a campaigner, as a, as a sort of, you know, a lightning rod for that kind of stuff?
00:17:29
S3: Absolutely not. I never knew that. That's what it took. I never even I wouldn't have even ever called myself a feminist because I, I grew up privileged, you know, in a we had money and we had, I had a very opportunity. I had love and support. And, um, yeah, this opened my eyes to how angry and, um, hateful a lot of people can be to a woman who dares to speak up. And that's not just men, it's women as well. Um, there's a lot of people who just want you to shut up. And that's weird to me.
00:18:05
S2: I notice you don't use his name. You say the man. Is that a deliberate strategy on your part?
00:18:11
S3: I just don't like the name. I just don't want to say it.
00:18:16
S2: Fair enough.
00:18:16
S3: Yeah.
00:18:17
S2: I'm mad as hell. Shaun Micallef's mad as hell. That's the thing that a lot of people, I think, who don't go to the theatre will know you from. Um, is how much fun was that doing that show?
00:18:27
S3: The most fun.
00:18:28
S2: And that's one you've ever had.
00:18:29
S3: Yeah. Oh, that's the and that's the thing I'm recognized for the most in the shops at least once a week. Someone says, I really miss Mad as Hell. And I don't think I was ever, um, aware of the impact that the show had and the joy it brought people, especially during Covid. I think, um, people relied on it a lot for some light hearted look at the world that was, you know, crumbling. Um, and yeah, people always say to me, I'll bring back mad as hell, because I think now more than ever, probably people need to, um, escape and have a laugh.
00:19:07
S2: Yeah. There's no shortage of material.
00:19:08
S3: Exactly, exactly.
00:19:10
S2: Do you ever talk to Sean about it?
00:19:12
S3: Yeah, all the time. I mean, everyone does it. If people are saying to me, bring it back. I can't imagine how much they say it to him. But everyone who worked on the show loved it. And it was like the it was just the perfect. We didn't work too much or too hard. Everything was written on an autocue, so there was no pressure. It was a live audience of people who adored it. It just. I got to ride on the coattails of Sean's long and incredible career and his genius, so I was just one of the lucky ones.
00:19:45
S2: MM. And is acting something as in straight acting? Is that something you would like to do more of? Is. Or has it just never really been top of your list of, of, you know, priorities.
00:19:59
S3: Well, people put you in a box, you know. And I was I've always been put in the comedy box and I used to want to. I used to fight against that. You know, I can do more and I can do something else. Um, but I think as I've gotten older, I realize this is this is my strength in comedy is what I do. And, and something I've always understood. So I think why fight it?
00:20:25
S2: Is there any role you particularly like to play?
00:20:27
S3: I always wanted to play Elle Woods in Legally Blonde The Musical. That was my dream role.
00:20:31
S2: Really.
00:20:32
S3: And I didn't get it. And, um, I remember thinking that. What? What am I going to do? What? And so my, my advice to young performers is whatever you think the trajectory is and whatever you think you're supposed to be doing, it's not going to work out that way, but it'll work out in some way. And, and the, my trajectory, you know, the, the, instead of doing that, I did The Importance of Being Earnest at MTC. And I did, you know, amazing jobs that I never would have dreamed of for myself. So, um, yeah, I just go with the flow now.
00:21:04
S2: Um, who's the, uh, most impressive performer you've ever appeared on stage with?
00:21:09
S3: So the late, great Bob Hornery was, he was just my favourite. He, um, his eyes twinkled on stage. He was a gentleman offstage. And his warmth, everything about him, you just felt safe. He was like the the gentleman, the epitome of a gentleman. And, um, yeah, I always think I was so lucky to have the chance to work with him.
00:21:37
S2: MM. Your husband is in the game as well. Mhm. Is this a good thing being in the same industry? I mean, you, you know, you can you have a shared language, you have shared experiences. You can empathize, presumably.
00:21:49
S3: Yeah.
00:21:50
S2: Do you get jealous? Like, damn, you got a role. I didn't.
00:21:53
S3: No, no, not at all. Um, but I do sometimes think I wish one of us had a normal job and one of us had some stability. So Rohan was in beauty and the beast for a very long stint, and our son was only two years old. So we, you know, one of us had to be at home. And so I was happy for that to be my job and take a step back and, and put him to bed every night, which is where he wanted me to be. And there wasn't one part of me that felt jealous or that wanted to be up there. I think I, I was ready for a break and happy to have one, but I also now feel ready to get back.
00:22:31
S2: Do you do you have that panic of like, when will the phone ring? You know, when does the next role come?
00:22:36
S3: Yeah. I think after dancing With the Stars, I, I ended that with a broken rib, a busted ankle, like I was burnt out and I thought, I need a break. And so I turned a couple of jobs down. And then after about six months, it's like, you know, that's when the panic kicks in and it's like, what have I done? What, what? And then you start scrambling for any job you can get. Um, it's such a horrible industry to be in, especially that the older you get, it's just tragic. It feels tragic.
00:23:08
S2: But it's comedy. It's not tragedy.
00:23:10
S3: Comedy is tragedy.
00:23:12
S2: What is it? It's like tragedy is when it's when you fall and hurt yourself. And comedy is when somebody else falls and hurts himself, right? Yeah. Um, that that question of aging, being a woman who's, you know, uh, I mean, you look fabulous. You're what.
00:23:25
S3: Was the word you used.
00:23:27
S2: An elder stateswoman or something.
00:23:29
S3: Like that.
00:23:31
S2: But I mean, I mean, it's from the outside. It feels like you're still getting, um, plenty of, plenty of, uh, you know, big roles and good, good work. Is it, do you find it's more challenging?
00:23:43
S3: I do, I think I'm in a weird age bracket where, you know, you stop being, for example, I can't actually say the project, but I, I got asked to do a workshop of a new new Australian work And obviously I was in Muriel's Wedding The musical. And this is of a similar vein to that. And and so I was like, oh, amazing. I would absolutely love to another, another role of that sort of type. And they said, no, no, no, no for the mum. Um, and that's when I, I was really like, shit, shit, I've moved, I've moved age brackets. Um, and it's not that it's hard for me to accept at all, but it's, it's just that, uh, what I've, what I do and what I, what I bring has been in the roles, you know, to this sort of age group. And then now it's just feeling a different type of position, which, um, I didn't know that I was ready to do, but, um, I've never been afraid, you know, being in mad as hell. There's no vanity to be on a show like that. And especially in comedy, there's very rarely vanity not good comedy anyway. So, um, I'm not afraid to be the old stateswoman.
00:25:03
S2: There was a bit of a kerfuffle around the casting of Natalie Bassingthwaighte in Waitress. Um, I wonder if you kind of a were aware of that and B had any thoughts on that? I mean, it kind of to my mind, to my mind, it felt like, well, the producers are making a decision around who will get people into theaters for a commodity that's not known here yet. Um, maybe it's, you know, casting a little older than the role is written. Who knows? But there was so much I thought so much ageism in the backlash to that. And I just wonder if you had any any views on that.
00:25:38
S3: Well, what shocked me was that people kept saying that it was stunt casting. And Natalie, you know, I did grease with her in my first ever musical. She is she is a singer like no one's business. You know, I was her understudy in that in that production of grease actually, and I, I used to see her up dancing on the podium at 3 a.m., you know, singing. And I'd think she's gonna be off tomorrow. I better get home to bed. But she never was because she's got cords of steel. And she's been in many musicals over the years before she was a TV star. So it's not stunt casting. She's. She's a musical theater queen in her own right.
00:26:19
S2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was that was what I thought as well. It was like, well, it seems like smart casting in some ways.
00:26:24
S3: Yeah. I mean, that the truth is the state of musical theatre in Australia is quite scary. You know, you hear of shows that are closing back to the future that never made it out of Sydney. And, you know, we want our industry to succeed. And, um, yeah, I actually heard Natalie speaking on that topic and she said that what she will bring to the role is life experience and, and passion. And, you know, I think she'll do a great job. And mainly I just encourage people to go to the theatre.
00:26:58
S2: On the site of a homegrown musical theatre. Is there enough? Is there enough? Australian original musical theatre?
00:27:07
S3: Absolutely not.
00:27:08
S2: Why is that? Is it just really expensive to mount a new show? Is it too risky?
00:27:13
S3: I think it's risk. But for anyone who saw my brilliant career at MTC and saw that, I mean, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but the night I went, everyone around me seemed to be in fits of joy and awe. And you know, I left feeling the same way. I felt so inspired to be sitting in a theatre with incredible storytelling by incredible artists about a an original Australian feminist who, um, inspired and still inspires. So I think, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. Finding the right stories to tell, I guess.
00:27:57
S2: Have you ever been in, um, inclined to write yourself?
00:28:01
S3: I'm not a writer of um. I have written a TV show with a friend, but of theater I, I don't think that's my forte.
00:28:11
S2: But certainly performing is. So. Christie it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming in today.
00:28:16
S3: Thanks for having me.
00:28:19
S1: To enjoy more in depth journalism from the latest edition of Good Weekend, visit us at theage.com.au or smh.com.au. This episode was produced by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from our executive producer Tammy Mills, Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. Oversee our podcasts and Melissa Stevens is the editor of Good Weekend. If you enjoyed this episode, follow our podcast and leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. And thanks for listening.
S1: You might know her best from Shaun Micallef's Mad as Hell. But over the past 20 years, Christie Whelan Browne has become one of the most in-demand stars of the Australian stage, appearing in everything from Britney Spears, The Cabaret to the producers, not to mention Shane Warne The Musical and Muriel's Wedding. But the thing that has kept her in the headlines is no laughing matter. The allegations of sexual harassment she made against her Rocky Horror Show co-star Craig McLachlan in late 2017. It's taken a toll, professionally and personally, but as she reveals in today's episode, she'd do it again. I'm Konrad Marshall and from the Sydney Morning Herald and The age. Welcome to Good Weekend Talks, featuring weekly in-depth conversations with fascinating people. Today, we'll. And Brown takes a break from rehearsing a musical version of All About Eve, in which she'll play four roles. To chat about everything from our shifting attitudes to Britney to the genius of McAuliffe, the joy of an IVF baby, and the stress of living through three very public court cases over six years. Today's episode is hosted by senior culture writer Carl Quinn.
00:01:24
S2: Thank you, Conrad. And Christy Whelan Brown, welcome to the studio.
00:01:29
S3: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
00:01:30
S2: It's a pleasure. You're doing a reprisal of the cabaret show Britney Spears. When did you last do it?
00:01:38
S3: Maybe two years.
00:01:39
S2: Oh, okay. Okay. But there was a gap. There was a long gap. Right?
00:01:42
S3: Well, we we've actually tended to do it most years since its incarnation in 2009.
00:01:48
S2: Really? Yeah. Okay.
00:01:50
S3: And the show just continues to be relevant. And I think it was quite ahead of its time in 2009. And that is evident by the way people react, which has changed severely over the years.
00:02:01
S2: So has the show changed over the years?
00:02:03
S3: Not at all. Not at all, no. We change about two lines at the end of the show to make it relevant to what's happening today. But the show, as you know, 98% of it remains what it was in 2009.
00:02:15
S2: Why do you think it's relevant and why? How do you think the relevance has shifted?
00:02:20
S3: Well, I think at the time of Britney's breakdown, we all viewed her breakdown as entertainment. We watched it on the front of tabloids. We watched her shave her head and hit paparazzi with umbrellas and, um, crying, holding her children, driving with her children on her lap. Uh, you know, we watched it all. We couldn't look away. It was like a car crash. That was this pop icon that was so young and beautiful and perfect in everyone's eyes. It was just all falling apart. And we watched it. Um, yeah, as I say, as entertainment and fodder. And and Dean told the story through her eyes from her perspective, which I don't think anyone was thinking about or looking at at that time. And so when I performed at, people still laughed heartily at that, at her being put into a mental institution and being put under conservatorship. People would roar with laughter. And I remember thinking, what are they laughing at? Uh, but I now know that they probably felt uncomfortable. Um, but nowadays it's mostly met with silence, those parts of the show, because I think we realize that this young woman who had the world at her fingertips, how quickly we all turned and, and watched our mental health crisis and didn't seem like anyone was stepping in to help. Mhm. Um, which just I don't think would happen in this day and age.
00:03:50
S2: Well, it's interesting because it was it feels like the Britney meltdown was peak TMZ, right? It was that kind of that intrusive presence of the, the internet version of tabloid media in in the personal lives of the famous.
00:04:04
S3: Yeah.
00:04:05
S2: I don't know that I'd agree with you that that it wouldn't happen today. I, I kind of I kind of wonder if that's right.
00:04:10
S3: Well, for example, the football player on the weekend who, who was clearly struggling, uh, people's reaction was this man needs help and everyone needs to get on board with that and the club needs to step in. Whereas at this time, it was like, look at her. She's lost it.
00:04:28
S2: Yeah. That's fair, that's fair. Yeah. Yeah. She's I mean, she's back in the news just in the last week or two. Right. Yeah. I mean, she's, um, just gone back into rehab, um, after being pulled over for DUI again. I mean, the Britney saga is, you know, it's continually evolving. Why not update the show to reflect that?
00:04:49
S3: I think we think of it as a moment in time. Mhm. Um, and it talks about all the main events. And now what I, what I say at the end of each show that's different is we say what she's doing now, which is either dancing on Instagram or um, obviously this time it will be I'm going to rehab. But we try and say that her purpose is obviously, I don't know, I don't know, I've never spoken to her, but that her purpose is to be happy and to find a way through this. And so that's really that's our ending of the show, is that she ends up happy and she ends up finding a way through. And that might be idealistic, but that is my dream for Brittany.
00:05:30
S2: Did you come at it as a fan?
00:05:33
S3: Oh yeah. My cat was named Britney Spears and I knew every song and Dean knew Dean again, loved this.
00:05:41
S2: Is.
00:05:41
S3: Brittany Dean Bryant, the writer and director. He knew and loved Brittany as well. And but he didn't know my love and obsession with her. Um, so he called and asked if I would be interested in doing it. And I think we both thought it would be a fun, pop, silly show. But each time he'd deliver, he delivered the show to me. Monologue by monologue, and they were quite dark and, uh, a dark look at a family who put their children into entertainment in a very young age and moved the family over different parts of the country to, to make fame a, a goal. And, um, the more we, we looked into it, the darker and sadder it became. And Dean is not afraid to lean into that. So that's what we did. It's not what we expected. It's probably not what audiences audiences expected. But, you know, I think it was an important story to tell then, even if it wasn't received in the right way. And that's why I say he was ahead of his time. Because now I think it's very poignant. It always was. But now the reaction in this day and age is very different.
00:06:46
S2: We're recording this just as, uh, the Michael Jackson movie is opening, which is, which is another story about some somebody growing up in a showbiz family, very much in the public eye and, you know, being, having, I guess not, not exactly the same kind of issues, but certainly unraveling before the public's eyes in some ways. Do you think it's do you think there's something intrinsic in sort of showbiz families that's a little bit problematic.
00:07:11
S3: Dare I say? I don't know that it's an American thing, but over there, you know, the the leap from poverty to fame to fame and fortune is it can happen overnight. And I think that it's, you know, yeah, you read many stories about the children who were performing and acting and supporting an entire family, which is such a huge amount of pressure. And yeah, I mean, I'm grateful that I don't have showbiz parents in any respect. Um, and that, yeah, that, that pressure only ever came from myself. I can't imagine how it would feel coming, you know, relying on you to feed your family at a, at a young age. Doesn't seem fair.
00:07:53
S2: Mhm. Tell us, tell us a little bit about your your growing up and when you discovered the, the acting bug or the performing bug.
00:08:00
S3: I grew up in a very, um, big sporting family. We were a big basketball family and no one performed or danced or sung. But my best friend Georgie Austin, shout out Georgie! She did, uh, go to dancing. And I wanted to do whatever she did because I just adored her. So I went along to the local dance school, but it happened to be like a really strict and like hardcore dance school.
00:08:26
S2: What age are we talking here?
00:08:27
S3: Uh, nine. Okay. And I danced for a couple of years at this. You know, I was I was never a great dancer, but I, I did enjoy it, but I one day my dance teacher said, can you sing? We had to do solos. And I said.
00:08:41
S2: Was that a failed cause? Can you sing cause you can't dance?
00:08:45
S3: No, because you had to do a song and dance routine. And I said, I'm not sure. And so she said to the pianist, just play Happy Birthday. And he did, and I sang, and I remember my teacher and my mum looking at each other like. And I thought, oh, maybe I can sing.
00:08:58
S2: Had your mum never heard you sing?
00:08:59
S3: No. Not, I guess, in that sort of way. Um, and then I did my high school musicals, um, and loved those much more than I did schoolwork. I was never a very academic person. And when I finished high school, I had no idea what I was going to do with my life because I never thought that being an actor was something that was possible. And I'm sure my parents felt the same way. They were like, you go to uni and, you know, and I was like, oh, an agent came along to one of my amateur productions and they want to sign me and they're going to send me on auditions. And everyone was like, okay, it me included. I just liked going along for the experience of it, but I never thought it would lead anywhere. So it really all just fell into place for me. Um, yeah, there was no grand plan or, you know, that's why now I love being a mentor to young people because I wish I'd had that, you know, or someone, even someone saying it's possible for you to do this as a job.
00:09:59
S2: So you've come here from, uh, from the rehearsal space, uh, from, uh, Malthouse, right. Where you've been doing auditions for All About Eve, which are in later in the year. When is that? That's in.
00:10:09
S3: November.
00:10:10
S2: November, right. That's that's a long lead, right? Yeah, yeah. So, um, you're obviously cast, you're on the poster. So, so you're not auditioning, but so talk us through that. What, what is that like? What are you, what are you doing in that audition process?
00:10:23
S3: Well, we're casting all the other roles, so I'm playing two roles, maybe even four roles. It's, it's going to be quite a task for me.
00:10:30
S2: Maybe even four.
00:10:31
S3: Yeah, it is four. It's either 4 or 5, actually. But, uh, Dean who wrote Brittany and directed that for me, we've obviously collaborated for over 15 years and he knew I was looking for a challenge. And so this is definitely, um, he definitely delivered on that. So I'm, as we're auditioning people, I'm trying to work out how I'll get around playing lots of different people. And yeah, I, it's just, it's quite stressful when other actors come in, you see that they've prepped, they've done their hair and makeup. They've, you know, they've thought about it. They might have watched the movie. Like they've put so much effort in and I'm trying to give them everything I can see. They're nervous. And it's just I take on the the feelings, obviously, because I know what it's like. So, um, yeah, that's been my day to day.
00:11:21
S2: Have you, are you kind of an older stateswoman of, of, of the theater scene now do you think?
00:11:26
S3: Isn't that so funny?
00:11:28
S2: I'm sorry to use the.
00:11:30
S3: No, but I actually just said to my husband, I had an audition for a big musical yesterday. And, um, so.
00:11:37
S2: You're still on the, the other side of that chair?
00:11:40
S3: Yes. Of course. Oh, this is an international production. So I, I remember auditioning for the producers in what must have been like 2007 or something, maybe, maybe 2004, I don't know, but I was young and green and I had no idea what I was doing. I wore the wrong outfit. Mel Brooks was there for the final callback. Wow. And I had to do these fouetté turns on my left leg. I didn't know what I was doing, you know? But I remember Chloe Dallimore, who played Ulla being whisked. You know, we just saw her being whisked from one side to the other and. And I said to my husband, I was whisked, you know, there was a group of people dancing, but I was whisked. And I said, I've gone from watching the whisker to being whisked. And so that felt like at least something, some sort of growth.
00:12:27
S2: Well, you've been, you've been around for a long time. You've been a, you know, I think much loved in the theatre scene. Um, I think I first met you on at a casting call or not a casting call, a media call for Xanadu down in Docklands a long time ago. You were. And you you're a tall woman. You're very tall on roller skates. I've got to say.
00:12:47
S3: Exactly. They find it hard enough to find a leading man to go next to me, let alone on skates. Uh, but but yeah. Xanadu, the ill fated Xanadu.
00:12:55
S2: Ill fated.
00:12:55
S3: Xanadu.
00:12:56
S2: Who could never have predicted that would not work out.
00:12:59
S3: I remember being in that tent. It was in a circus tent. Um, but it was directly under a flight path. And so you'd be doing a show and just helicopter it. You'd have to be shouting the lines even louder just so anyone could hear. Oh, it was a nightmare.
00:13:14
S2: Was it fun?
00:13:15
S3: Yeah. Oh, we had so much fun. Yeah, it was my. It was actually my first time, actually, maybe the only time where I've been the leading lady of a musical. Like my face on the poster. And it was a monumental flop. We were supposed to run for nine months, and I think we were four weeks.
00:13:35
S2: Right.
00:13:36
S3: So the face of a flop, right? I remember.
00:13:39
S2: Is that seriously the only time you've been the face on a poster?
00:13:42
S3: I think so.
00:13:43
S2: All about Eve will be.
00:13:44
S3: Yes, yes. You're right.
00:13:45
S2: Let's hope that's not an omen.
00:13:48
S3: It only runs for four weeks, so. But I remember.
00:13:51
S2: Closing after two.
00:13:53
S3: I remember the opening night of Xanadu being on stage with Olivia Newton-John holding hands, singing Xanadu. 2000 people on their feet. It was like a moment. And then the next night, 80 people. No, the reviews were good, but 80 people, tumbleweeds, you know. And I thought, wow, shit, we're in trouble.
00:14:12
S2: 80 people. That would be heartbreaking.
00:14:15
S3: Yeah.
00:14:15
S2: What do you do? How do you how do you go on and perform when like the you've just got a sea of empty seats.
00:14:21
S3: It's the camaraderie of a a cast. You know, we held each other together and we made our own fun. Sometimes too much fun because, you know, the place was falling down around the the roof of the tent was leaking. There was there was only one disgusting portaloo for us all to use. It was muddy. It was like, you know, everything that could go wrong could. So we just we just banded together.
00:14:55
S2: I do want to ask you about the Rocky Horror experience, and I don't know how much you can say, because obviously there have been court cases and, you know, legal settlements and so on. That was a big part of your life that was lived out in the public eye with a lot of nasty things going back and forth. I mean, what was it like to actually live through that?
00:15:16
S3: Uh, tiring. Mhm. And, um, yeah, I sometimes, I often wonder, you know, what the cost of it is, what the cost of speaking up like that was. And even today, the cost continues to be there. Um.
00:15:32
S2: In what way?
00:15:33
S3: Uh, in that the, the man has started a podcast and continues to spit vitriol and therefore sends trolls in my direction and, and abuse and threats. And so each day, seeing those things, sometimes you've just got the capability to block, delete, move on, you know, but some days you don't. And, um, so the cost is ongoing. Um, and I recently said to my husband, you know, I sometimes wonder what life would have looked like if, if I'd never, um, gone down that path of, of speaking up and trying to make a change. And he said, well, I know you and I know you couldn't have lived with that. He said, there's also a cost to not.
00:16:24
S2: Yeah.
00:16:25
S3: So yeah, I think, um it was something that just had to happen. And um, I, I've said this before, women have been fighting the good fight for forever. I'm not the first and I won't be the last. And I just played my part and yeah, did what I had to do.
00:16:42
S2: Mhm. I think you've probably answered it in some ways, but if you had your time back, would you do it again? Do you think?
00:16:48
S3: I think I'd probably pause for thought. Um, but I think my biggest fear around that time was that it happened at the time in my life where I wanted to have a baby, and then that was proving incredibly difficult because of the strain my life was under. Um, and I did have my baby and I, you know, I had a beautiful IVF miracle boy and he's the light of our lives. And so, um, you know, I, I regret nothing because, um, I know I'm exactly where I am today being his mum.
00:17:22
S2: Mhm. Did you ever imagine yourself as a campaigner, as a, as a sort of, you know, a lightning rod for that kind of stuff?
00:17:29
S3: Absolutely not. I never knew that. That's what it took. I never even I wouldn't have even ever called myself a feminist because I, I grew up privileged, you know, in a we had money and we had, I had a very opportunity. I had love and support. And, um, yeah, this opened my eyes to how angry and, um, hateful a lot of people can be to a woman who dares to speak up. And that's not just men, it's women as well. Um, there's a lot of people who just want you to shut up. And that's weird to me.
00:18:05
S2: I notice you don't use his name. You say the man. Is that a deliberate strategy on your part?
00:18:11
S3: I just don't like the name. I just don't want to say it.
00:18:16
S2: Fair enough.
00:18:16
S3: Yeah.
00:18:17
S2: I'm mad as hell. Shaun Micallef's mad as hell. That's the thing that a lot of people, I think, who don't go to the theatre will know you from. Um, is how much fun was that doing that show?
00:18:27
S3: The most fun.
00:18:28
S2: And that's one you've ever had.
00:18:29
S3: Yeah. Oh, that's the and that's the thing I'm recognized for the most in the shops at least once a week. Someone says, I really miss Mad as Hell. And I don't think I was ever, um, aware of the impact that the show had and the joy it brought people, especially during Covid. I think, um, people relied on it a lot for some light hearted look at the world that was, you know, crumbling. Um, and yeah, people always say to me, I'll bring back mad as hell, because I think now more than ever, probably people need to, um, escape and have a laugh.
00:19:07
S2: Yeah. There's no shortage of material.
00:19:08
S3: Exactly, exactly.
00:19:10
S2: Do you ever talk to Sean about it?
00:19:12
S3: Yeah, all the time. I mean, everyone does it. If people are saying to me, bring it back. I can't imagine how much they say it to him. But everyone who worked on the show loved it. And it was like the it was just the perfect. We didn't work too much or too hard. Everything was written on an autocue, so there was no pressure. It was a live audience of people who adored it. It just. I got to ride on the coattails of Sean's long and incredible career and his genius, so I was just one of the lucky ones.
00:19:45
S2: MM. And is acting something as in straight acting? Is that something you would like to do more of? Is. Or has it just never really been top of your list of, of, you know, priorities.
00:19:59
S3: Well, people put you in a box, you know. And I was I've always been put in the comedy box and I used to want to. I used to fight against that. You know, I can do more and I can do something else. Um, but I think as I've gotten older, I realize this is this is my strength in comedy is what I do. And, and something I've always understood. So I think why fight it?
00:20:25
S2: Is there any role you particularly like to play?
00:20:27
S3: I always wanted to play Elle Woods in Legally Blonde The Musical. That was my dream role.
00:20:31
S2: Really.
00:20:32
S3: And I didn't get it. And, um, I remember thinking that. What? What am I going to do? What? And so my, my advice to young performers is whatever you think the trajectory is and whatever you think you're supposed to be doing, it's not going to work out that way, but it'll work out in some way. And, and the, my trajectory, you know, the, the, instead of doing that, I did The Importance of Being Earnest at MTC. And I did, you know, amazing jobs that I never would have dreamed of for myself. So, um, yeah, I just go with the flow now.
00:21:04
S2: Um, who's the, uh, most impressive performer you've ever appeared on stage with?
00:21:09
S3: So the late, great Bob Hornery was, he was just my favourite. He, um, his eyes twinkled on stage. He was a gentleman offstage. And his warmth, everything about him, you just felt safe. He was like the the gentleman, the epitome of a gentleman. And, um, yeah, I always think I was so lucky to have the chance to work with him.
00:21:37
S2: MM. Your husband is in the game as well. Mhm. Is this a good thing being in the same industry? I mean, you, you know, you can you have a shared language, you have shared experiences. You can empathize, presumably.
00:21:49
S3: Yeah.
00:21:50
S2: Do you get jealous? Like, damn, you got a role. I didn't.
00:21:53
S3: No, no, not at all. Um, but I do sometimes think I wish one of us had a normal job and one of us had some stability. So Rohan was in beauty and the beast for a very long stint, and our son was only two years old. So we, you know, one of us had to be at home. And so I was happy for that to be my job and take a step back and, and put him to bed every night, which is where he wanted me to be. And there wasn't one part of me that felt jealous or that wanted to be up there. I think I, I was ready for a break and happy to have one, but I also now feel ready to get back.
00:22:31
S2: Do you do you have that panic of like, when will the phone ring? You know, when does the next role come?
00:22:36
S3: Yeah. I think after dancing With the Stars, I, I ended that with a broken rib, a busted ankle, like I was burnt out and I thought, I need a break. And so I turned a couple of jobs down. And then after about six months, it's like, you know, that's when the panic kicks in and it's like, what have I done? What, what? And then you start scrambling for any job you can get. Um, it's such a horrible industry to be in, especially that the older you get, it's just tragic. It feels tragic.
00:23:08
S2: But it's comedy. It's not tragedy.
00:23:10
S3: Comedy is tragedy.
00:23:12
S2: What is it? It's like tragedy is when it's when you fall and hurt yourself. And comedy is when somebody else falls and hurts himself, right? Yeah. Um, that that question of aging, being a woman who's, you know, uh, I mean, you look fabulous. You're what.
00:23:25
S3: Was the word you used.
00:23:27
S2: An elder stateswoman or something.
00:23:29
S3: Like that.
00:23:31
S2: But I mean, I mean, it's from the outside. It feels like you're still getting, um, plenty of, plenty of, uh, you know, big roles and good, good work. Is it, do you find it's more challenging?
00:23:43
S3: I do, I think I'm in a weird age bracket where, you know, you stop being, for example, I can't actually say the project, but I, I got asked to do a workshop of a new new Australian work And obviously I was in Muriel's Wedding The musical. And this is of a similar vein to that. And and so I was like, oh, amazing. I would absolutely love to another, another role of that sort of type. And they said, no, no, no, no for the mum. Um, and that's when I, I was really like, shit, shit, I've moved, I've moved age brackets. Um, and it's not that it's hard for me to accept at all, but it's, it's just that, uh, what I've, what I do and what I, what I bring has been in the roles, you know, to this sort of age group. And then now it's just feeling a different type of position, which, um, I didn't know that I was ready to do, but, um, I've never been afraid, you know, being in mad as hell. There's no vanity to be on a show like that. And especially in comedy, there's very rarely vanity not good comedy anyway. So, um, I'm not afraid to be the old stateswoman.
00:25:03
S2: There was a bit of a kerfuffle around the casting of Natalie Bassingthwaighte in Waitress. Um, I wonder if you kind of a were aware of that and B had any thoughts on that? I mean, it kind of to my mind, to my mind, it felt like, well, the producers are making a decision around who will get people into theaters for a commodity that's not known here yet. Um, maybe it's, you know, casting a little older than the role is written. Who knows? But there was so much I thought so much ageism in the backlash to that. And I just wonder if you had any any views on that.
00:25:38
S3: Well, what shocked me was that people kept saying that it was stunt casting. And Natalie, you know, I did grease with her in my first ever musical. She is she is a singer like no one's business. You know, I was her understudy in that in that production of grease actually, and I, I used to see her up dancing on the podium at 3 a.m., you know, singing. And I'd think she's gonna be off tomorrow. I better get home to bed. But she never was because she's got cords of steel. And she's been in many musicals over the years before she was a TV star. So it's not stunt casting. She's. She's a musical theater queen in her own right.
00:26:19
S2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was that was what I thought as well. It was like, well, it seems like smart casting in some ways.
00:26:24
S3: Yeah. I mean, that the truth is the state of musical theatre in Australia is quite scary. You know, you hear of shows that are closing back to the future that never made it out of Sydney. And, you know, we want our industry to succeed. And, um, yeah, I actually heard Natalie speaking on that topic and she said that what she will bring to the role is life experience and, and passion. And, you know, I think she'll do a great job. And mainly I just encourage people to go to the theatre.
00:26:58
S2: On the site of a homegrown musical theatre. Is there enough? Is there enough? Australian original musical theatre?
00:27:07
S3: Absolutely not.
00:27:08
S2: Why is that? Is it just really expensive to mount a new show? Is it too risky?
00:27:13
S3: I think it's risk. But for anyone who saw my brilliant career at MTC and saw that, I mean, I mean, I can only speak for myself, but the night I went, everyone around me seemed to be in fits of joy and awe. And you know, I left feeling the same way. I felt so inspired to be sitting in a theatre with incredible storytelling by incredible artists about a an original Australian feminist who, um, inspired and still inspires. So I think, I don't know, I don't know what the answer is. Finding the right stories to tell, I guess.
00:27:57
S2: Have you ever been in, um, inclined to write yourself?
00:28:01
S3: I'm not a writer of um. I have written a TV show with a friend, but of theater I, I don't think that's my forte.
00:28:11
S2: But certainly performing is. So. Christie it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for coming in today.
00:28:16
S3: Thanks for having me.
00:28:19
S1: To enjoy more in depth journalism from the latest edition of Good Weekend, visit us at theage.com.au or smh.com.au. This episode was produced by Konrad Marshall and edited by Tim Mummery, with technical assistance from our executive producer Tammy Mills, Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. Oversee our podcasts and Melissa Stevens is the editor of Good Weekend. If you enjoyed this episode, follow our podcast and leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. And thanks for listening.
