Goddess: Welcome to Goddess Behavior, podcast where ancient myths meets modern main character energy. We're your hosts, Steph and Laura. No textbooks, just great stories, hot takes, and some unhinged ancient audacity. So pour a drink, fix your crown, and step into your mythic era. This is Goddess Behavior. We're getting good at that now. We're on it now. What twenty one? Yeah, but this is episode twenty. So dragons. Dragon behavior. Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, the world's it seems to be the world's favorite mythological creature. I think so. I know you see dragons a lot. Yeah. There are dragon stories in a lot of places and Yeah, and they're all different, which we'll get into today, which I think you know, I like with we talked about mermaids and like sirens, like the a lot of those have a common theme. Yeah. And while dragons do, it's almost like the tiniest little thread of of theme that goes along. Yeah, they're like loosely related. Yeah. But they're not they're definitely the same group, but not the exact not replicas of each other like some of the mermaids are. And we'll get into it 'cause I think like paleontology plays a plays a place here. and also just sort of some countries were closer. Yeah. So that helps than others. Yeah. Yeah. So all right. So every culture has its dragon. Cultures separated by oceans by thousands of years, by languages that never touched each other. Some worshiped them, some fight them, And some become them. Which raises a strange question. If dragons are real, . Why did almost everyone invent one? Today's episode isn't really about dragons. It's about humanity's oldest thought experiment. What happens when one being possesses more power than everyone else? Every civilization answered that question differently. Some imagined dragons as creators who gave birth to the world. Some imagined them as sacred guardians protecting wisdom, rivers, and entire nations. some turned them into monsters whose greed consumed everything they loved. And some believed the greatest schoolers should aspire to become dragons themselves. Because dragons have never been just monsters. They've always been mirrors. Every dragon story reveals what the people telling it. believed power was actually for. And thousands of years later, those answers still shape the stories we tell today. Yeah. I think that's definitely the common theme. It's like it's a very obvious reflection of the culture. Yeah. And that's how the stories vary. Not not so much the it's not just the physical appearance of the dragon. Yeah, and I think we see this in other ways too. So we also see like the gods as mirrors to cultural of the culture's needs. so it's funny seeing dragons in that way. Yeah, because I think and how much power they actually had to these people. Yeah. And I I think especially because we think of probably because that's just what we were raised with, like the Western version of dragons, that we're like, how could they be so many different things? It's because we only know one version of that thing. You know, as a as a whole. So yeah. So why are dragons everywhere? Before we get into individual dragon myths, we have to talk about the obvious question. Why does every culture seem to have one? Yeah. it's kind of a big mystery, to be honest, why why there are across multiple continents? Yeah. Continents that never interact with. Yeah, they there should be no reason why they both have the same type of creature. Story and creature, yeah. Yeah, I mean these cultures are separated by oceans, languages And for thousands of years all imagined enormous, powerful, serpent like creatures. Some had wings, some didn't. Some breathed fire, while others controlled rivers, storms, or the sea itself. Some were wise and benevolent. Others were terrifying monsters. And yet despite all those differences, one thing remains remarkably consistent. almost no ancient culture imagined dragons as ordinary animals. Sorry guys, we we can't get past imagined dragons. So now that we we can acknowledge it then we can move on. Yeah, we're saying now I'm singing imagined dragon songs in my head. Yep. And I can't help it. It's it's it's how I am. Yep. They're almost always combinations. Snake, bird, lion, fish, deer, crocodile. They borrow pieces from the strongest, fastest, Or most dangerous creatures people knew and combined them into something beyond nature itself. A dragon isn't simply bigger than the animals around it. It's more than nature. It's it's something more. Right. So where did we get that idea from then? There isn't one universally accepted answer as to where these dragons have come from, but scholars have proposed several fascinating theories. So one possibility is fossils. Long before paleontology existed, people occasionally uncovered enormous bones buried in the earth. Imagine finding a skull of a dinosaur without any scientific experience. explanation. Yeah. It's easy to see why ancient people would have believed that they'd discovered the remains of a giant monster, right? Yeah, because what else would that be? I mean you have you gotta think these people had no context for this. Right. Their context would be folklore stories. Yeah, exactly. Or folklore esque stories. Yeah. Or yeah, and they would create create So they see that giant skull or giant bone and are like, my gosh, it's real. Exactly. Because that's what we would do. I mean I think When you remove the technology and the science for the things we know now, right. You would still have the same situation. another theory points to our own biology. Humans evolved to recognize and fear predators like snakes, large cats, crocodiles, and birds of prey. Some researchers believe that dragons combined all of those ancient survival instincts into one super predator beast. Yeah. The body of a serpent, the lion I mean if you think about it, most monsters like that come up in myth are supersized. Yeah, or they're like everyone's worst thing, like personified or like enlarged. Right. Well and the fact that it's so big means it can't be tamed, you know. which is interesting 'cause I think folklore almost like brings it back down and make that also makes it scary. Yeah. Campfire story. In many cultures, dragons weren't simply creatures. They're storms, floods, volcanoes, droughts, rivers, and the sea itself given a body. Before meteorology or geology, it makes sense that overwhelming natural forces through being through powerful beings with personality, intention, and emotion. Yeah, I mean f my head immediately goes the Greek Titans. Yeah, exactly. So they were like those big untamable creatures that were personified problems that they were having. Or like personified unknowns. Yeah, things that they had no control over. So they're like must be a god doing that. Like their very primitive version of that. Yeah. Yeah. the dragon wasn't causing the storm, it was the storm. Or same with the the Titans for that matter. Which I re I mean, which I really like 'cause truthfully, we don't have a lot of Dragon Tails. Dragon Tails. I love Dragon Tails Culture One. No. It is now. I love Dragon Tails. yeah. So that I could keep having it. So cute. I love that. Yeah. It was Cassie. Listen, we have a lot of dragons in our pop culture. Yeah, I like we like dragons. Yeah, yeah. Over time, dragons became something even bigger. They evolved into symbols for things people couldn't see, but they could absolutely feel. greed, chaos, kingship, divine authority, why wisdom, temptation, creation, destruction, and power. itself. And that's where today's episode begins. Because maybe humans aren't hardwired to imagine dragons specifically. Maybe they're hardwired to tell stories about power. The kind that's beautiful, terrifying, unpredictable, and far greater than ourselves. Yeah. Or something that that could feel like hard to obtain or hard to understand. Right. Yeah. Every civilization created dragons, But what they chose to do with those dragons tells something profound about the people telling the story. Some dragons were made into gods, some were made into guardians, some of them into monsters, and some believe that the greatest rulers should become dragons themselves. Those differences aren't really about dragons, They're about what each civilization believed power was for. Yeah, like we were saying before, it's it's a reflection of that civilization and how they mirror power. Yeah. belief system. Yeah. So let's start with drag the dragon as a god. Power that creates. One of the oldest dragons in recorded history isn't evil. She's a mother, and her name is Tiamat. To understand her, we have to travel back to ancient Mesopotamia, often called the cradle of civilization. This is where some of humanity's first cities were built, where writing was invented and where one of the world's oldest surviving creation myths, The Enuma Elish was recorded. But Tiamat wasn't a dragon waiting in a cave. She exists before the world does. a primordial. Yes, I know. my god. It makes it even better. Long before humans, before kingdoms, before mountains, before even many of the gods themselves, there was only water. Fresh water, salt water, chaos. Tiamat is the primordial salt sea, the vast untamed ocean that surrounded everything before creation. To the Mesopotamians, the sea wasn't simply a body of water, it represented limitless possibility, mystery, beauty, and danger all at once. It could sustain life, but it could also swallow it whole. Again, we've referenced this plenty with our water episode. yeah, for sure. Yeah. Tiamat embodied those enormous, uncontrollable forces that existed before civilization could make sense of the world. so alongside the freshwater god Apsu, she gives birth to the first generation of gods. but those younger gods Grow louder, more powerful, and increasingly chaotic. How does that happen? They just get worse? Children. Maybe they were baby dragons. they were just hard to manage. That's fine. Apsu decides that they should be destroyed before they become a threat, but he ends up getting killed first. Grieving and enraged, Tiamat raises an army of monstrous beings and declares war on her own descendants. It's like their version of the Titanomachy. Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Ooh, I wonder where they got that idea from. That's when the storm god Marduk comes in. the other gods promise him supreme authority if he can defeat her. Armed with winds, storms, and divine weapons. Marduk traps Tiamat in a net of raging winds before striking the final blow. But what happens next is what makes this myth extraordinary. He doesn't simply kill her, he creates the world from her body. Again, it sounds like Ymir. Yeah. He splits her into two. The one half becomes the heavens, the other the earth. Her eyes become the sources of the tigers and the Euphrates. See, I'll come back to that. Mountains rise from her body, and the ordered universe is literally built from the body of the primordial chaos. That's an astonishing idea. Hmm. But also not an unfamiliar one. The world isn't created despite the dragon, it's created from the dragon. Creation and destruction become the same act. It suggests that order doesn't replace chaos, it emerges from it. Which we see that in Greece too. Yeah, for sure. Civilization exists Because something unimaginably powerful came before it. And that power had to be transformed rather than simply erased. Tia Matt isn't guarding treasure. She isn't terrorizing villages. She is the universe before it becomes understandable. And that's a pattern we'll see throughout this episode. And we've seen throughout a lot of other episodes. Dragons often stand at the boundary between chaos and order, between the known and the unknown. Mm. Between destruction and creation. It's liminal. Liminal creature. We just love the liminal, I think. We live in a grey area. We do. We do. Tiamat reminds us that some of humanity's oldest dragons weren't monsters to be feared. They were the raw power that made the world possible. And perhaps that's why dragon stories have endured for thousands of years. Before dragons became creatures that heroes fought, they were symbols of immense, uncontrollable forces that shaped existence itself. And reminder that every act of creation begins with wrestling with chaos. Love that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. In every place we've seen thus far, that is the case. Yeah. So I love that for Mesopotamia too. I mean, it makes sense. Being the cradle like I like how it it is the described as the my god, the cradle of humanity. Yeah. Because it is. Yeah, and how This is this story is the creation of the cradle of human like it's like the the whole thing. This is the story. The whole cycle. Yeah, exactly. Cool. And it's all started with the dragon. So thousands of miles away from in I was gonna say from Mesopotamia because I learned Mesoamerica. Yeah. Thousands of miles away in Mesoamerica, another serpent becomes humanity's creator. But unlike Tiamat, Quetzalcoatl isn't defeated. He's considered a god. His name means feathered serpent, combining two powerful symbols, the serpent that represented the earth, fertility and transformation, and the Quetzal bird, Whose brilliant green feathers symbolize the heavens, divinity, and the sky. together they unite heaven and earth into one single being, a creature that belongs to both worlds. So already this dragon is different. This dragon has feathers. Yeah. And is bird-esque. Yeah. Which is an interesting thing when you start to think about like Information that's come out about dinosaurs having feathers because we always think of them as being lizards. Yeah, like I remember. Explain to my children that like, no, actually velociraptors are more like a chicken. Yeah. They had feathers. I just explained that to br to Bronson too, and he's like, what? And I was like, Yeah. Like lava chicken. Yes. Which my oldest one thought. Yeah. That could happen. yeah. it's weird to think of like these combinations of beings. Creatures. Yeah. so in Aztec tradition, the world had already been created and destroyed multiple times. Makes sense. entire ages of humanity had risen and fallen before the current one. the people of the fifth sun believed that they were living in the latest chapter of that cosmic cycle. to create this new humanity, Quetzalcoatl journeys to Mictlan The underworld ruled by the god Mictlantecuhtli There he must retrieve the bones of the people who lived in the previous world. like so many myths, the journey isn't easy. In one version, the ruler of the underworld tries to trick him, and Quetzalcoatl stumbles while escaping, causing the bones to shatter into pieces of different sizes. The broken bones explain why humans are not all the same. I like that. Some are tall, some are short, and some are stronger and some are weaker than others. Yeah. But then all of which would be smaller than the dragon. Right. Human diversity becomes part of the creation story itself. Quetzalcoatl carries the bones back to the gods, and he does something remarkable. He pierces himself. He lets his own divine blood fall onto the ancient bones. The mixture of the old humanity and divine sacrifice gives birth to the people of the present age. human life doesn't begin through conquest. It begins through sacrifice. And Quetzalotl doesn't stop there. He brings humanity maize. the crop that would become the foundation of Mesoamerica's civilization. He is associated with knowledge, learning, craftsmanship. Astronomy and the calendar that allowed people to measure time, predict seasons, and organize religious life. Power here doesn't create mountains or rivers, it creates culture, creates agriculture, knowledge, and time itself, transforming scattered people into a civilization. and that's a striking contrast to Tiamat. Tiamat's body becomes the physical world. Quetzalato's sacrifice creates the people who inhabit it. One dragon gives humanity a place to live, and the other gives it a way to live. Yeah. Not every civilization believed immense power should rule. Some believed it should protect. Yeah. Mushu. Mushu. So the guard the dragon as a guardian. So this dragon is power in service. Yeah. So Western fantasy taught many of us that dragons guard treasure because they're greedy. Ancient mythology often tells a very different story. Sometimes dragons guard things because someone has to. Their power isn't meant for conquest, it's meant for protection. Yeah. So our first dragon here is called the Naga. Across India and much of Southeast Asia, dragons became something remarkably different. They're called Naga, powerful serpent beings connected to rivers, lakes, rainfall, fertility, and hidden wisdom. Unlike many western dragons, Naga itself. They can be generous or dangerous, depending on how humans treat them. Mutual respect makes sense. Yeah. They guard sacred places, human treasures, waterways, and divine knowledge. Their power exists to preserve balance rather than dominate it. One of the most beloved stories is that of Muca Linda. After Siddhartha Gutama attained enlightenment, he sat beneath the Bodhi tree in deep meditation. Then one violent stor then a violent storm arrived. Rain poured and the winds howled, flood waters rose, and instead of attacking the The Naga King Musa Linda emerged from beneath the earth. he wraps his great coils around Buddha's body to lift him safely above the floodwaters. Then he spreads his enormous hood overhead like an umbrella, shielding him from the storm until the sky clears. I'm like picturing Cobra situation. Like a big snake. Yeah, like where would like the hood of the the cobra with like a piece basically. Yeah. It's one of the gentlest dragon stories in world mythology. This dragon doesn't guard treasure, he guards wisdom. His strength exists entirely in service of someone else's enlightenment. Power in this story isn't measured by what you conquer, it's measured by what you choose to protect. Which you protect what you value. So this is again a reflection of their culture. For sure. So I think the first thing I felt was like naga, right? Yeah. So but what's interesting is like the Naga are like these terrifying humanoid monsters that serve Amarantha. Yeah. So obviously they're not parallel in the sense that they are the same because they're not. As we know, SJM takes like these mythological names, right? And so maybe they're not again identical to the actual mythological creature, but it's a mythological name, so it comes it just fits, right? So we have to we have to bring it up. Right. So ACOTAR flips one of the oldest dragon myths tradition like on its head, right? The Hindu and Buddhist mythology Nagas are often guardians of water. wisdom. In ACOTAR they're transformed into monsters that inspire fear instead of protection. Yeah. It's a reminder that modern fantasy often borrows these mythological names while completely reinventing them into something different to represent. Yeah. So that's just a little side note. Well I think it's also like it's just how you view power. So for Amarantha that's she was viewing right like she needed I like that yeah yeah and and and they were her protection. Yeah. So it's not totally off either where Yeah it just is like they were scary to not dragon is though to the character that we the characters that we like in the story. Like we're not really getting her perspective so Feyre's lens So yeah you know we love that. We'll get into that at a at a different episode. Unreliable narrators are tricky. Yep. So Wales imagines dragons protecting something even greater, not treasure or sacred knowledge, but an entire people. We've mostly encountered dragons through European fairy tales or fantasy novels, and the Welsh dragon might completely change the way you think about them. Because in Wales, the dragon isn't the villain, the dragon is the hero. I love it. So the red dragon. Known in Welsh as I'm sorry, Welsh people, that's the best I got. We're trying hard. Y Ddraig Goch That was better. Let me try it again. And the red the red dragon, known in Welsh as Ddraig Goch That's better. There we go. I got it on the second try. Is one of the oldest, most enduring national symbols in the world. The dragon still appears on the Welsh flag today and the story stretches back for more than a thousand years. I just think of like the the Welsh flag is so recognizable because of the dragon that it's was so fun digging into the story. And it's so cool. It is. It's really good. one of the best known versions of the legend appears in Historia Brittanyum. I feel like I have to say it that way. Brittanyum. and was later expanded by Jeffrey of Monmouth in his writings about legend the legend of King Arthur. The story begins with King Vortengern, who is trying to build a great fortress, but every night the walls mysteriously collapse. No matter how many times the builders rebuild them, they fall again. Desperate for answers, Vortigern consults the young prophet Merlin, known in the earliest traditions as Merden or Ambrosius. Merlin tells him the problem isn't the fortress, it's what's buried beneath it. The hill when the hill was excavated, two enormous dragons were discovered sleeping below the earth. One is red and one is white. when they're released, they burst into the sky and erupt into a fierce battle that shakes the land itself. At first, the white dragon appears stronger, but eventually the red dragon triumphs. The battle isn't really about dragons, it's a prophecy. The white dragon represents the invading Saxons. The red dragon represents the native Britons, the people we now associate with Wales. The vision predicts that although the Britons will suffer conquests and hardship, they will ultimately endure. That's what makes this dragon so remarkable. It isn't threatening civilization. It is Is civilization defending itself. Yeah, it's such a good representation of like culture living on no matter what it faces. Yeah, and so this immediately I think dueling dragons, I think, like there's so many like ideas of the Whether it's a video game or a roller coaster or like a a battle scene in general, there's like two fighting dragons. Yeah. Like opposing each other. Mm-hmm. the red dragon becomes the symbol of sovereignty. The right of a people to govern themselves. It becomes the symbol of identity, a culture refusing to disappear despite centuries of outside influence. it becomes a symbol of resilience. The belief that survival is its own kind of victory. Even today Thre Goch flies on government buildings, sports jerseys, And homes through Wales. Not because people fear dragons, but because they see themselves reflected in one. The dragon that survives. Yeah. That endorsed. Mm-hmm. This is a remarkable departure from Western Dragon stories. Instead of needing to be slain, the dragon becomes the embodiment of a nation's memory, identity, and hope. The dragon doesn't guard the kingdom. The dragon is the kingdom. Yeah. Enduring on. Yeah. I just think of like like the Rexham . Red Dragons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean again that's it's not a big place Wales and I just think like they have such strong They're so proud. I mean and they should be, right? Yeah, so the the dragon being the kingdom perfectly illustrates what we've been exploring throughout this episode. The same mythological creature that represents primordial creation in Mesopotamia, divine sacrifice in Mesoamerica, and sacred protection in Buddhist tradition becomes something totally different in Wales. It becomes a people, a homeland, a future worth defending. Dragons don't have to have a universal meaning. They become whatever that culture needs them to become. And in Wales, the dragon's greatest treasure isn't gold, but the survival of an entire nation. Yeah, the protection of their culture and their being, Yeah. The dragon always endured. but mythology also understood something uncomfortable. Power that begins in sacrifice doesn't always stay there. Sometimes it begins with perfectly ordinary greed. And sometimes that greed transforms someone into the very monster that they feared. And that's where we meet Fafnir. If one dragon story explains how power destroys people, It's Fafnir. Unlike many dragons in mythology, Fafnir wasn't born a monster. He becomes one. Originally, Fafnir was a dwarf, The powerful dwarf king Hreidmar But in Norse mythology, They weren't the seven dwarfs, we have simply short bearded miners, like modern fantasy often portrays them. They were master craftsmen, creators of magical objects, and beings deeply connected to the earth and its hidden wealth. Everything changes because of a cursed treasure. The story begins when the trickster god Loki accidentally kills Hreidmar's son, Otter. Otter. To pay compensation, Loki steals an enormous hoard of gold From another dwarf named Anvari. Along with the treasure comes Anvari's ring and a curse. Anyone who possesses the horde will ultimately be destroyed by greed. The curse doesn't take long to work When Hreidmar receives the treasure, Fafnir and his brother Regin immediately begin fighting over it. Consumed by the desire to own the gold for himself, Fafnir murders his own father. no. Not an enemy, not a rival king, his own father. That's not a good start to the story. Yikes. Then he carries the treasure into the wilderness, isolates himself from everyone he once loved, and slowly transforms into a dragon. Spending the rest of his life coiled around a mountain of gold that he never actually uses. It's one of mythology's most haunting images, a creature so consumed by the desire to possess wealth that possession becomes its entire identity. The transformation itself is important because it's both literal and symbolic. In some versions of the myth, Fafnir physically becomes a dragon. In others the emphasis is on how greed twists him into something monstrous. Either way, the message is the same. The treasure doesn't make him more powerful, it makes him less human. Sure. like he lets something else consume. Sure. Yeah. eventually Regin convinces The young hero Sigurd to kill Fafnir so they can claim the treasure. Sigurd forges The legendary sword Grom digs a trench beneath the path the dragon regularly travels and waits. As Fafnir crawls overhead, Sigurd drives the sword upward into the dragon's heart. But even in death, Fafnir has one final lesson to teach. As he lies dying, he warns Sigurd that the cursed treasure will destroy him too. At first, it sounds like the bitter words of a defeated monster. But Fafnir is right. Regin immediately plots to murder Sigurd and keep the treasure for himself. Sigurd discovers the betrayal and kills Regin first. But the curse doesn't end there. The gold continues to Pass from hand to hand, leaving betrayal, murder, and tragedy in its wake throughout Yeah, so like the dragon dies, but the greed lives on. Like the ring. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, and that's what makes Fafnir so different from dragons like Tiamat, right? Tiamat represents the wild, untamed forces that exist before creation. What's fascinating is that nobody starts the story as a dragon. Fafnir becomes one. And a dragon isn't a species, it's a consequence. Greed transforms him long before the scales ever appear. His body simply catches up with what choices he has already made. Actions have consequences. Yeah, I mean curses have a consequence for sure. And usually there's a reason that you're getting cursed to begin with. So Yeah. That was a choice. I mean you know. yeah, okay, I have a point here. That's why I'm like, where are we going? Unlike Tiamat, whose immense power becomes the foundation of the world, Fafnir's power shrinks his world until all that's left is a big pile of gold. One dragon gives everything she has so that the world can exist. The other gives up everything so that he can have a treasure that only he could ever enjoy. Yeah. power hasn't changed, but its purpose has. And maybe that's why Fafnir became the blueprint for so many Western dragons. From Smaug in the Hobbit and countless dragons sleeping atop a mountain of treasure, we continue to tell stories about creatures who Mistake possession for purpose. Because Fafnir teaches one mythology, one of mythology's oldest and most uncomfortable lessons. Sometimes the thing you're guarding is the very thing that can destroy you. So like we were saying, like the first thing you think of is Smaug I think it's like impossible not to make that parallel, right? But I also just think of like dragons hoarding treasure. Like that's where this is coming from, right? Yeah, the dragon in the cave blocking the treasure. Right, or guarding the princess. no, and it's it's it made me think of before, in Zodiac Academy, that's how the dragons refuel their power is by sitting on a top of gold, like a laying on gold. So like they have hordes of treasure, but that's how they like replenish their magic. my gosh, through gold. Through through wearing gold. Like they like it's ri it's really funny. He they're very like comical in their writing style, so they like they'll be like, his power sources are low, so he has to like put on this like big gold gaudy chain and like lay on the pile of coins. It's really funny. Yeah, it's like it's so good the way they explain it. But it's like the way they recharge their power. Gold. By wearing lots of drip. Can that recharge me? Is that acceptable? Same. It's perfect. So one civilization asks a completely different question. What if becoming the dragon isn't a tragedy? What if it's the qualification? Because in China, the dragon isn't a monster the hero must defeat. It's the model of a ruler everyone hopes to become. Which also makes a lot more sense for Mushu. Yeah. Yeah. So the dragon as legitimacy. Because China never developed the same suspicion of dragons that medieval Europe did, instead, dragons became symbols of ideal rule. this is usually the point in the episode where Western listeners realize they've been imagining dragons in a very specific way. If your image of a dragon is a fire-breathing monster sitting on a mountain of gold, waiting for the knight to slay it, that's largely a European tradition, right? In China, dragons tell a completely different story. The Chinese dragon, Isn't evil. It isn't something heroes are expected to kill. For thousands of years, it has been one of the most revered and auspicious creatures in Chinese mythology, a symbol of wisdom, strength, prosperity, protection, and divine authority. even its appearance reflects that worldview. The Chinese dragon isn't one animal, it's many. The antlers of a deer, the horns of an ox, The scales of a carp, the claws of an eagle, the body of a serpent, the whiskers of a catfish. Instead of belonging to one creature, it combines the strengths of many. It isn't nature, it's nature perfected. Which is funny because it sounds weird when you like piece it together and like the antlers is obviously different than what we think of, but like if you think of what a traditional Chinese dragon looks like, it has all of those elements in it. Yeah. Look that out of place from a European dragon. I'm just picturing They're different, but not that far off. I mean not that close. Like it's different in the way that like Asian elephants are different from African elephants, yeah. Like they just have different same species, different subtype. Yeah. And so like I picture the dragons in the parade in Mulan. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, like more snake-like in its body shape, but otherwise essentially very similar to a western dragon. Yeah, like I was just listening to you read the the description and I'm like, that sounds so bizarre, but when you like go piece by piece, you're like, actually, yeah, that's what they look like. I just immediately I just immediately was like, yeah, like in Mulan. Yeah. Like the parade dragon. Yes. With all the little kids inside. Right. They walked up for the parade in. Rather than breathing fire and burning villages, Chinese dragons are deeply connected to water. They govern rivers, lakes, rainfall and storms. Again, it's a country placing a dragon over water. Yeah. So like with the water being so vast and unknown, yeah. You could see it, right? They would need an entity. Yes. to just kind of help explain all of that. in an agricultural society where every harvest depended on seasonal rain, dragons weren't terrifying. They were essential. A dragon wasn't a threat to survive, a dragon was a blessing to pray for. Right. many traditions describe the four dragon kings or Lóngwáng, each ruling one of the seas surrounding China. Each dragon king governs a different direction and controls the weather within its domain. So I'm assuming like north, south, east, west. Yeah, I'm sure. They're very directionally oriented. Yeah. if the rain came at the right time, the crops flourished. And if they didn't, famine would follow. So people offered prayers and ceremonies asking the dragon kings to bring rain because dragons didn't simply control nature, they maintained a balance. That connection between dragons and harmony eventually became inseparable from kingship itself. For centuries the Chinese emperor was known as the Son of Heaven, believed To rule through the mandate of heaven. His authority wasn't based solely on military conquest or bloodline. ruler who governed wisely, protected the people, and maintained harmony between heaven and earth was considered worthy of heaven's approval. The dragon became the ultimate symbol of responsibility. The emperor sat upon the dragon throne. He wore robes embroidered with five clawed. Imperial dragons, a design reserved exclusively for the emperor himself. Palaces, temples, and ceremonial objects were covered in dragon imagery, not because dragons represented domination, but because they represented the sacred duty of leadership. So, unlike many European kings who proved themselves by defeating dragons, Chinese emperors demonstrated legitimacy by being associated with them. Power wasn't something to conquer, it was something to embody responsibly. That philosophy even extends beyond the emperor. Chinese tradition speaks of the nine sons of the dragon. Rather than inheriting identical roles, each son develops different strengths and responsibilities. One adorns temple roofs, another decorates bells, another protects bridges, another guards gates or weapons. The lesson isn't subtle but important. Power isn't one thing. It takes different forms depending on what a community needs. So think of branches of government. Yeah. It's just Exactly. Explaining how community needs like leaders of all kinds kind of and and how you all have to act together simultaneously. But yeah. Yeah. even today dragons remain woven into everyday Chinese culture. Every year communities celebrate the Dragon Boat Festival, with their elaborately decorated boats racing across rivers in honor of ancient tradition and the enduring symbol of the dragon During lunar new year, dragons dance through the streets as symbols of prosperity, renewal, protection, and good fortune. Thousands of years later, and the dragon is still celebrated, not feared. I also just think of like the Chinese zodiac. It's the air of the dragon. It's also like the only one that's mythical. All the other animals are quote unquote real. I don't think it's that's because I just don't think it's mythical to them. Yeah. I think that 'cause I it's not. Yeah. T it's sp specifically to the Chinese, I would agree. but I do think it's interesting that it's included with all these other like the monkey so just for example, I my Chinese zodiac for monkeys. But it's it's the rat, the ox, the goat, the yeah, it's like all of these very like snake sni yes, it's something that you would see. Like a pig. Yeah, they're very they're like common animals and dragons one of them. Yeah, yeah. So it's interesting that they get like thrown in there kind of. It seems out of place, but now knowing this like how much it represents them. It makes sense. But it also makes sense that maybe people that are born of the dragon year to them are probably pretty special. yeah. Blaze is born of the year of dragon. Of course she is. And my husband. Nice. Yeah. Wow, that's really cool. Yeah, two dragons in my family. Different kinds though. So I don't know if you guys know this about Chinese Zodiacs, which we can get we could get into this as an episode too. This is fun too, yeah. So 'cause they have stories behind all of these too. Yeah. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean the story of the zodiac is really cool. Yeah. but they each you also get an element. So kinda like we talked about with Yeah, like a fire dragon, a water dragon. Yeah. So I think a lot of people don't know that, but they kind of just know, I'm this animal. But it they have yeah, the extra elements get added in there and it Changes the dynamic too. Yeah. More of your story for them, yeah. Yeah. It's a it's another another episode. And again, the Chinese don't do anything on accident. No. They're very intentional with their things. So the stories behind these are really fun. So we'll have to do those a different time. Luck and superstition too. Yeah. That to them was very, very real. Definitely and it's fun how they applied it. Yeah, we'll we'll do that another day. So one story that captures the relationship between dragons and leadership better than any other is the story of Yu the great. According to Chinese tradition, a catastrophic flood threatened to destroy the world. Earlier rulers had tried to stop it by building dams, barriers, logical things. Yes, to stop water. Smart But the waters only grew stronger. You chose a different approach. Instead of fighting the water, he learned to work with it. He spent years digging channels, redirecting rivers, and allowing the floodwaters to flow naturally toward the sea. In some versions of the legend, dragons assist him by dragging their tails through the earth to carve riverbeds. In others, Yu himself transforms into a dragon as he reshapes the landscape. Either way, the lesson is the same. The greatest ruler doesn't conquer nature, he works alongside it. That's almost impossible to imagine in medieval Europe because in so many European stories the hero proves himself by slaying the dragon. Right. Or they lose themselves underwater. Right. I mean I think like there are two sides to this that we've seen. Yeah. The Chinese here are presenting it completely they're working with it. Yeah. Which is brilliant. So and they're yeah, I mean their culture is so much about like harmony and like working with things that it it fits perfect. Again it's with the respect thing. Yeah. And I think that's something their culture does very well. Yeah, good yin and yang. Yeah. In a Chinese mythology, the ideal ruler becomes dragon like. Those aren't just different dragon stories. They're different philosophies of power. One sees power as something dangerous that must be defeated before civilization can flourish. Yeah. The other sees power as something sacred that when guided by wisdom creates harmony and allows civilization to thrive. Dragons don't just have one universal meaning. They become whatever the culture sees as true power. Yeah. I really like this version. I think this was something that It turns it like into something that we are not used to, but it I think it works so well with like the power being something that represents the people so well. Yeah. I really like it. I like that the dragon is worshipped and helpful and yeah like seen in a different light than what we're used to. Yeah, I think it's just odd 'cause that's not that's definitely not what we're shown in our T V shows. Definitely not. movies, games, any of it. So I like that this is different. Yeah. I mean what we see now is we've really have yet to stop telling dragon stories. Yeah. They're all dragon tales. I mean whether again it's like with pirates where you see dragons for kids. Yeah. You see dragons. All different versions of it. Yeah, you see so many versions of dragons in our pop culture. So I mean I think the the most like off the top of my head I think the Dragon. yeah, I think well especially 'cause we've been wa we've been watching it. True. But House of Dragon is No not a good way to bring up Wyvern's. No, no, can't we do it? yeah we can because they are Wyvern's. They're not dragons and I have to talk about it. It's really Okay. On the surface, House of Dragon is about dragons. But anyone who's watched the series knows the dragons aren't actually the main story. The power that comes with them or like behind them is. That's that's the point. That's what they're all literally and figuratively fighting over. Absolutely. the dragons are living nuclear weapons. Which Yeah, I mean seeing two dragons fight in that way is it's it's crazy to think about. Yeah. I mean a mythical fight if we'll ever see one. It's it's the it's the Welsh dragons. Yeah. The red and the white dragons. It's what makes me think of it. It's very like Y Ddraig Goch Yeah. it i it's what we think of, I think, when we think of like dragons fighting. Well, and it's like again, the imposter versus the yeah. One who feels like they're rightly. Yeah, true, true. Yeah. so I have a problem with House of Dragons. Yeah. I do too, but go ahead. I think we both have the same problem. Yes. So for those who don't know this They're they're not dragons guys. They're wyverns. They're wyverns. So to put it simply, a dragon has four legs and two wings. Those dragons in in that show do not have four legs. They have like arms that act like they're wings and then two back legs. Yes. Whereas like a What's another popular dragon? Toothless. Toothless walks on four legs. Right. Toothless has four legs. Toothless is a dragon. He's a dragon. So I have a very hard time watching House of Dragon not being but it's a Wyvern When you're looking at Wyverns. A Wyverns. Yeah, for sure. And they're all that way. They're all Wyverns. Talk of them are technically by definition. Yeah. So I'm I'm not totally understanding why they chose that. for this show, but sure. Other than the the whole Game of Thrones series talks about them as dragons and like the the Tale of Dragons, the House of Dragons, the the language was already there. I'm wondering if if George R. Martin just like interprets it that way. I guess. I don't know. It seems odd. Yeah. 'Cause to us it it is a wyvern and for people who read fantasy they're Wyverns. Yeah. but interesting. The whole thing. House of Dragon. They are interchangeable, the name like Wyvern and Dragon. It comes from like medieval Europe and that's why we have issues 'cause there's like conflicting texts where they use it both ways. Yeah. Yeah. medieval artist drew dragons with two legs and with four legs and with no wings and with wings. So it's like very conflicting which 'cause it it's no rule book. It's not like a you know, these are not real creatures. So you run into this problem. You also don't have Like even from a paleontologist's standpoint we don't have a whole preserved dragon. No. So like there's nothing to go off of. Yeah. They're just making it up, right? So I guess that that's fine. Yeah. So I just think you and I are very like lot logically, if you go by a definition, which we have, then they're whippers, not dragons. So like our version of what I like how I just explained it comes from like a much more modern interpretation and that's why I have a issue with it because when you know like George R. R. Martin when he wrote Game of Thrones knew th like this is not new information. It's it's actually from Dungeons and Dragons and like So man yeah, there's so many other so ways that that gets into Yeah it's more modern authors are determining like which one is which but to me I can't unsee them as wyverns so that's just where I'm well I'm just like wait their arms are their wings. Yes, exactly. I just have a problem for me. Yeah. Yeah. So there's the dragons in House of Dragons literally determine who sits on the Iron throne who wins the wars, and then therefore who is the legitimate heir. Right. so entire political systems revolve around who can ride one. And what's interesting is that even the Targaryens never fully control their dragons. They bond with them. Right. But dragons remain sort of this unpredictable I mean they choose their rider they grieve, they rage, like they're their own entities and themselves. And we even see them like when one dies, they choose a new person Yeah. And it's very like mythological feeling, right? Yeah. Yeah, so if dragons have represented power through history and like trying to wield something bigger, that represents this big unattainable power seems just And it's in for them it never really belongs fully to one person because humans die. Right. But dragons, I mean unless they're killed in like some epic battle or something, they live for a while. They outlive their riders I guess, is the point. Yeah, like it presents this bigger question of what happens when humans think they can control something that powerful, right? Yeah, when for them it never is gonna truly belong to only one person. Yeah. So back to wyverns. it's hard not to think about our favorite wyvern Abraxos. We love Abraxos. Yeah. So Throne of Glass. So Sarah J. Mass takes a slightly different approach with the Wyverns At first they're introduced as terrifying war beasts, but then we meet a Braxos. And suddenly everything changes. Abraxos is gentle, curious, and fiercely loyal despite being raised for violence. Yeah, so like even though there's technically not a dragon, like they're fulfilling the same like idea. Yeah, and and imagery wise, right? They they ride them, they fly with them, they train with them, feed them, care for them. It's it's they're bonded in in a still a very bonded relationship. Yeah. His relationship with Manon Blackbeak becomes one of the most emotional hearts of the series because it's built on trust rather than domination. Together they challenge the idea that strength has to be cruel. Their story becomes one of healing, freedom, and choosing compassion over the role society assigns you. So sweet. So for the witches in this series, right? They don't necessarily choose their dragon. They're or Wyvern. Yeah. They're Wyvern chooses them. That's right, yeah. And so when she is like presented with these big strong options like she was given the opportunity to have the biggest, strongest dragon or like Wyvern. See, even though I keep doing it Yeah, I know. Well they're like we said, they're interchangeable. They're not glass, they're Wyvern's. Yes. And she chooses a Braxos who is smaller. Yeah. And and the the men in charge are like Why? Why are you doing this? Like, don't do this. This isn't a good idea. And she's like, No, he's mine. Yeah, like he's like the bait beast. Yeah, he's like the runt, essentially, of the litter. And she chooses him anyway And she like helps rebuild his wings and like with the spider silk and and I I just love how sh she like sees something of her in him and and is like he's not broken. Like I will show you that he is stronger than anybody out there. He's she sees like the scrappiness in him, you know. Yeah and she chooses to like try to help him instead of Yeah, belittling him like everybody else. Yeah, I know. So we love the Braxos, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the monster turns out to possess more humanity than most of the humans around it. Absolutely true. Especially when we're talking about other yeah, when you and when you talk about the other witches and then the men that were capturing them but like housing them yeah initially. It's not nice. No, it wasn't. it's another reminder that the dragons or dragon like creatures in this case are really just monsters. They're mirrors reflecting the choices that people make around them. Yeah. Her choosing not to dominate it. Yeah. But to harness its power. War and work along with it. And harness her own power in the process. And yeah, you're right. It gives a Chinese dragon. It does. Yeah. Similar to fourth wing. Fourth ring returns to one of mythology's oldest ideas. Dragons are intelligent beings with agency. They aren't horses with wings. they aren't pets, they aren't weapons, they're ancient creatures who make their own choices. So in Rebecca Yarros's world, riders aren't assigned dragons, the dragons choose their rider. That relationship has to be built on mutual respect, trust, and worthiness. That's much closer to older myths than many people realize. Across mythology, dragons are often guardians of wisdom or sacred knowledge. You don't conquer them, you earn their respect. They recognize strength of character as much as physical strength. The series also asks an ancient mythological question: Are you worthy of power? not because you want it, but because you've earned it. Yeah. Like you've earned it through this mutual trust and relationship that you that you're trying to build. Like if dragons are representing power, then you have to you have to gain the power. It's not just given to you because you quote unquote deserve it or you have some kind of authority of your own as it is. Queen of a dragon. Right. Yes, exactly. Mother of dragons. I guess. In fourth wing we see like a monster become the mentor. So like Right, Tairn is like her mentor, teaches her how to use her powers. So like the thing that you feared becomes the thing that you have to be chosen by. Yeah. So like it's flopped. Yeah. And it's again going back to Welsh or like Gaelic Tairneanach Yeah. And the Hobbit. It comes back again. We've talked about it a little bit before with Fafnir. Could we not? Yes. but Smaug is arguably closest descendant, right? If you want to think of it that way. Of that Norse mythology story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He's brilliant, charismatic, terrifying, but most importantly, he's greed made flesh. Yeah. He doesn't simply own the treasure, he sleeps on it. He's invested. Yeah. And I mean, I think when you think of Tolkien, it's impossible not to think of Norse. We we know he's inspired by Norse mythology, just looking at his work at a brief right overlook, which we would love to get into Tolkien. relation you know related to Norse mythology and many other mythology. Mythology in general, but a lot Norse. Yeah. but that's a that we have to narrow down it's a lot. We would have to that would have to be We have to bring in some reinforcements, I think. Someone who really I might know a guy. Knows some knows a lot about that. I might know a guy. The dragon isn't dangerous because he's hungry. He's dangerous because he believes possession equals purpose. That's why Smaug remains one of literature's greatest dragons. He's not simply guarding the treasure, he is becoming the treasure instead of the power. Yes. My precious. Yes. Look across these stories and you'll notice something remarkable. The dragons are never just exciting creatures added for spectacle. They're symbols. They are the main characters. I mean, yes. How could they not be? But anyway, they're symbols. In House of the Dragon, they represent political power. In Fourth Wing, they represent power that must be earned through partnership. In Throne of Glass, they remind us that loyalty and compassion. can transform even creatures bred for war. The Hobbit, they become the ultimate warning about greed and the corrupting nature of wealth. Thousands of years after Tiamat, Fafnir, and the Red Dragon of Wales were still asking the same questions. Who deserves power? Can power ever truly be controlled? What happens when we seek it for the wrong reasons? The dragon may have changed, but the myths haven't. That's why dragon stories never go out of style. That's good. Wow, imagine dragons and Taylor Swift in the same episode. See, we ha she always signs up coming up somehow. my brain is really happy. Yeah. Anyway. Every generation finds a new way to tell them Every generation has to wrestle with power, fear, ambition, and transformation. And dragons remain the perfect creatures to carry those stories forward. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the dragon has never represented power on its own. Yeah. It represents what power reveals. give one person absolute authority and mythology asks, do they become Tiamat, creating worlds? Do they become Fafnir, unable to love anything except their possessions? Or do they become the Chinese dragon? Whose legitimacy comes from serving the people rather than dominating? That's why dragons have never really disappeared. They're not fantasies, they're thought experiments. every generation invents new dragons because every generation has to decide what power should look like. We need a dragon. in America. That's what that's what I'm saying. an American drain. What would an American dragon look like? Put that in the comments. Yeah. That's what I want to know. Yeah, what do you think an American dragon would look like? Like a bald eagle. it's gotta be the head of an eagle. Head of an eagle. Alright. Big dragon wings. It's gotta be monstrous. Are we thinking four legs or two legs? Two. Two monstrous legs. Yes. Yeah, like like a wyvern It's a wyvern Yes. Not a dragon. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're a more modern country than these other guys. True. And then I'm thinking like Hungarian horn tail hit tail situation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like full firepower situation. We gotta be the ultimate the ultimate dragon. Exactly. Wow. Anyway, moving on. This is just built in us. We have no choice. We can't help it. No, we really can't. so why do we feel like dragons still matter? We still tell dragon stories because we still argue about power. Yeah. It's still such a big source of contention between I mean, just in our own country, but also in relationship to other countries. Yeah. So globally power remains a topic of conversation constantly. And it doesn't have to constantly be a struggle per se. Yeah. But it is constantly a piece of world discussion. Yeah. lead who should do well, you know, who who deserves to have knowledge or protect knowledge. yeah. and what deserves to be protected. I mean I think like a lot of it power comes from a lot of different sources and I think for us power is capitalism. That's just how our country operates. But What power looks like to other people might be a little different. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean whether you're talking about politicians, billionaires, CEOs, celebrities, or fictional kings, you're still asking the same question that ancient civilizations have asked for thousands of years. Not whether power exists, but what kind of person should be trusted with it. And that's why dragons have never gone extinct. They just have simply changed shape. Absolutely. And with great power comes great responsibility. Spidey No, but I th I think that's what that that's what they represent is that th there's a lot of weight to power and that not everybody can handle it and Absolutely. Or should handle it. Yes, should. True. and the people who protect power are are very important. Yes. Yes. An Iron Man. An Iron Man. Captain America. The Marvel universe. Yeah. I'm sure there's mythology there, other than Thor, obviously. Well yeah. Yeah. yeah, I mean every civilization imagined dragons. Imagine dragons. You guys, it's terrible. I don't know why I did this to myself. Well did they imagine them? Here we are. Well that's the question. That's the big question. Did they imagine dragons? I think they saw something. I think there's more to the story here. Might not be a legitimate Well They get to say what's a dragon 'cause they came before us. Exactly. If they say there was a dragon. I believe it. There was a dragon. Yeah. Sure. So then. Mm-hmm. I agree. Because we don't have record of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Yeah. I think I I have a theory that they're dinosaur related. But yeah, I think that they're dinosaur adjacent. Yes. If not dinosaurs. Well, yeah, I mean, I think, especially with the Mesopotamian one. Yeah. Having feathers, I'm like, you were a Pterodactyl. Yeah, totally. But anyway. Yeah, clut Quetzalcoatl is like a a feathery serpent that gives velociraptor to me. Like how do you know? Yeah. It's so cool. Yeah. Like it it gives dinosaur? Yeah. Without calling them a dinosaur. Yeah. Written down in any way that it's passed down from Mesopotamian history. That's what I'm saying. It's like that's as far back as we get as far as history goes. So of people, you know. So if on all of these continents we're having a Large flying creature. Yes. With varying degrees of skins and heads and claws and wings. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Why not? Yeah, I agree. What keeps it from being myth? Yeah, you're right. I think that's a good question. What do you guys think? Do you think That they are they were real? Do you think they went extinct? Do we think dragons are real? They are dinosaurs, or do you think that they're their own thing? A comb like a Chinese like a combination of of creatures that we recognize today? I mean Yeah, that's a good question. which one would you rather have encountered with a Chinese dragon, a Welsh dragon, a Norse dragon, Mesoamerican dragon? Welsh dragon. Yeah. Or the Chinese dragon. I just want to like witness it. Yeah. I mean all of them to be No, I gotta ride it. I do. Yeah. Fantasy reader is the fantasy reader in me. It's like, yeah, no, I gotta ride it actually. I gotta figure that out. Fair enough. Yeah. Which dragon do you think represents leadership the best? Ooh. I mean they're different, so it's hard for me to choose one that I feel like is like that's the best one. But I think the Chinese did it very well. I love the Chinese dragon. I like them working with nature instead of against it Yes. I like the mutual respect there. It also transforms this like big scary quote unquote monster into something good. Yeah. That we don't usually see. Yeah. So I I like that part of it. why they have rice farms. I mean you know what I mean? Like it just it became a big piece of who they yeah. But yeah, I mean that so that geography created the environment for them to grow like their rice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it it kind of makes you think like why why do you have some cultures that have like seed that dragons Need to be defeated or conquered in order to have this power versus other trying to harness it in its own way and like be in harmony with we can work with this. Yeah, yeah. We can work with this. Yeah. to be honest, it's hard to say. I think America would want to fight it. That's safe to say. Totally. We would want to fight it. We would want to capture and use it against our enemies. We would be like, wait a second. You're huge and powerful. We like that. We need that. Yeah, turning it around turning it around. Let's breed you. Yeah, that would go. not I mean, right or wrong, right? That's just how that would turn out. Totally. I in my head. The Chinese would have already figured out how to do that in a very nice advantage of way and infiltrated us before we even captured our dragon. Yeah. Or like in how to train your dragon, right? They they would have already like That's Scandinavia. It is. Yeah. So they would have already had them trained and ready to go. Yeah, exactly. We'd be late to the game. Yeah. But ours would be bigger and better. It would, yes. That's what I was thinking. Like we have one giant dragon, kind of like Drogo and Game of Thrones. Yeah. But they have like lots of smaller, better tra dragons. Yeah. And we're just like, nah, we'll bully you. Yeah, we can't no, we have the biggest. Don't worry. Yeah. So awful. So anyway. Ooh, here's a good one. Which dragon would win in a popularity contest? Smog, Drogo, Toothless, or Tairn my gosh. You didn't even say a braxos. I'm sorry, I was getting I for I was like, I'm missing one. A band of more braxos. A braxos. I I mean I love a braxos. I tairn Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not that. And toothless is cute. no. Yeah, they're all good in their own way. Okay, who's gonna win in a fight? Who would win a dragon fight? Out of which ones? Out of all of those. Droga? Drogo. I'm saying Drogo, which is yeah something. It took me a second. I but then I was like, yeah, I know who you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think unfortunately that's just how that one's gonna But then again he's just the biggest like we were just saying. Yeah, so who wins if you've gotta pick a dragon to win a fight, which one would you pick? Abraxos is pretty scrappy. Yeah. Toothless too. Yeah, true. Not that is rider though. Yeah. Like that's a hindrance strong man. Yeah, but he also needs Manon Not that Tairn It's between Tairn and Yeah. It's between them. That's where I That's a hard one, to be honest. Especially with the lightning. Daenerys. Duh. Yeah, we're not just talking about Drogan versus my god. Tairn We're talking about Daenerys versus Violet. Violet has power, so I feel like it's not fair. It's yeah, that's a different battle. I don't think you can like if you do dragon versus dragon, they're probably pretty like I w I would assume like size wise they're pretty Well once you throw in magical powers it just becomes a different battle. But I think if we're talking about like we see plenty of dragon battles in Game of Thrones or like House of Dragons, right? Yeah. True. Where I think it's Valerion. Strongness dragon. Yes. And then Vagar. Vagar, yeah. And Dragon. Yeah. Because Vagar's massive. Yes. Take her. But yeah, so we'd love to hear any answers that you might have or your thoughts. Yeah. But I think this is a fun episode. I liked it. Dragons are cool. Yeah. Dragons are cool. Yeah, it's kinda fun. Yeah. Especially like we were saying at the beginning, like mermaids and s some other ones are like bleed together of like similar ideas and dragons while they might look similar, they're really very different stories. They served yeah, they serve different purposes. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So that's it. Till next time guys. Bye.
Thats Goddess Behavior: If you enjoyed this episode, please follow Goddess Behavior and leave a review. It helps other legendary mortals find us. Questions are always welcome. No oracle required. Stay bold. Stay curious. That's Goddess Behavior.
Thats Goddess Behavior: If you enjoyed this episode, please follow Goddess Behavior and leave a review. It helps other legendary mortals find us. Questions are always welcome. No oracle required. Stay bold. Stay curious. That's Goddess Behavior.
