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00:00:08.480Hey, thanks for listening to Red Dear Catholics.
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00:00:17.440If you were not at the 2025 Establishment Conference, you're in for another treat, and we've got another one of our guests and attendees on the lineup here.
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00:00:21.280Hope you enjoyed the listen, and it's as fruitful for you as it was for us.
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00:00:37.359And we are back for the very last leg of Red Dirt Catholics live here from the Discipleship Conference, and we have a heavy hitter.
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00:00:39.039We have Heather Kim joining us.
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00:00:40.640Thank you so much for being here with us.
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00:00:41.920So glad to be here.
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00:00:43.280Last leg, bringing it home.
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00:00:44.640Bringing it home.
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00:00:50.240Last part of it, passing the paton off, and it's back-to-back Steubenville, which is also cool.
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00:00:50.880Big Steven.
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00:00:54.000We had Father Dave Pavanka just before, and now we have Heather.
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00:00:56.640Um, what's going on in your life right now, Heather?
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00:00:58.240Yeah, so actually a lot.
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00:01:01.600This is like a huge time of transition for me and my family.
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00:01:03.600So I'm from Vancouver, British Columbia.
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00:01:14.159That's where I've been living for the last well, I mean, I grew up there, lived in the States for 10 years, but I've been back there for like 23 years, and then now have just moved to Steubenville, Ohio of all the places.
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00:01:15.840God must be real.
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00:01:19.519And and you're a graduate of Steubenville, right?
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00:01:20.159Yes.
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00:01:22.239So I met my husband there, went there.
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00:01:22.480Yeah.
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00:01:25.280So I've known Father Dave for a long time and good friends.
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00:01:26.000He married us.
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00:01:32.959So it's it's really actually very profound what the Holy Spirit is doing right now in our lives to even get us there.
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00:01:37.599Um, but obviously he's doing something wonderful on that campus and has been for many years.
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00:01:39.920So I feel really privileged to be a part of it.
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00:01:40.400Yeah.
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00:01:44.879So you're going to be working there at Studentville, but you mentioned before that you already had two jobs.
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00:01:46.000What's your what's your other job?
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00:01:53.040Yeah, so I I run a ministry with my husband called Life Restoration Ministries, which is kind of the umbrella which has held a lot of the things that we do.
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00:01:57.840So I travel and speak at various conferences, I do accompaniment with leaders.
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00:01:59.840Um, we do a lot of healing things.
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00:02:05.840So my husband does a lot of intense healing retreats for priests and bishops, along with JP2 Healing Institute with Dr.
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00:02:06.719Pop Schutz.
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00:02:13.840Uh, he has a podcast, and I have a podcast called Abiding Together with my two best friends, Sister Miriam James Highland and Michelle Bensinger.
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00:02:15.919How did the three of you meet?
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00:02:17.520Yeah, that's a it's a funny story.
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00:02:19.199So Michelle and I met at Franciscan.
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00:02:20.800So we're both students there at the same time.
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00:02:25.039We're wildly different, so it was the Lord that brought us together.
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00:02:28.479Like we just had burning hearts in a very similar way.
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00:02:33.039And so we started praying together at that point, and that just never stopped.
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00:02:35.439So over the years, that was the only time we've lived in the same place.
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00:02:37.599She lived in Florida, I was living in Vancouver.
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00:02:45.039And then um, yeah, about 15 years ago, uh, sister Miriam was living in Seattle, which is just two and a half hours from Vancouver.
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00:02:49.280And she she this is before she was like the sister Miriam, you know.
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00:02:53.039So she was actually embarking on her own healing journey, and Dr.
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00:02:55.199Bob Schutz knew my husband Jake.
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00:03:01.199And so he said, Hey, if you want to do an intensive, like with a great counselor, you should go up to Vancouver and meet with Jake.
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00:03:05.919So she came into town and uh he said, Yeah, I have a religious sister in town this week.
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00:03:06.960She's just staying at a hotel.
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00:03:07.919I was like, That's sad.
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00:03:09.120Does she want to come over for lunch?
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00:03:12.319Like, how late, you know, and I mean, I was like, if she's comfortable with that.
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00:03:17.840So she came over, and about 15 minutes into our soup, we were just sharing our hearts as friends.
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00:03:20.000I was like, sometimes the Lord just does that, you know.
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00:03:24.479And um, Michelle was hosting a women's retreat that I was going down to annually in that year.
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00:03:26.400She was like, I really want a religious sister to come.
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00:03:29.759And I was like, I got her, I got this girl, she's amazing.
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00:03:32.560And so that was the beginning of this Miriam.
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00:03:38.240Like, lot God has let her be a textbook of what a testimony looks like.
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00:03:38.719Yeah.
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00:03:44.560You know, and what I mean by that is like long form you listen to her talk, and it's beautifully interwoven into the talk.
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00:03:51.120But there might just be like a 15-second to three minute little notion of like God's mercy.
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00:03:51.599Yeah.
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00:03:55.840And if you've heard the whole thing, you kind of know it, but it's just like, oh, she just did a little nugget.
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00:04:01.840Like she didn't go into the all the details, but she she's describing how loved she was by the Lord and how merciful he was.
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00:04:03.919And uh yeah, she does a great job.
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00:04:05.199Yeah, yeah, she does.
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00:04:18.879And it it really has been a privilege for the three of us because when you're friends with someone and the three of us have been friends for so long, you see the journey, you know, it's not just moments, but you're really getting a sense of like someone's heart, you know.
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00:04:31.360And I'm like both of them, all three of us have just been deeply committed to our journey with each other and our journey with God, and so to see the growth in each other, the fruit through the good and the bad and the ugly, it's it's man, following the Lord is the best.
00:04:31.600 -->
00:04:33.040It's just the sense the best.
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00:04:36.879You know, the the saints you often see them in like clusters, right?
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00:04:42.959You know, it's just kind of fun to see in y'all's life a little bit, like these little interwoven sets of friendships.
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00:04:43.600Yeah.
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00:04:47.920Um has it been hard to keep those across your life?
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00:04:52.240Like have you had to fight for that, or has it been kind of a natural product of it?
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00:04:57.199Yeah, you know, it's it's funny because I live so I mean in Vancouver, that's like the corner of another country.
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00:05:01.920You know, it seems so far away from everyone that I have been in deep relationship with.
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00:05:04.800So yes, fight for it, yes.
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00:05:10.000You got to prioritize it in a unique way, you know, because you're not seeing each other in the day-to-day.
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00:05:21.439Like Sister Miriam and Michelle, other than Michelle and I's time at Franciscan, have never been in each other's day-to-day except for long voice memos, you know, like we're trying so hard to bridge those gaps.
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00:05:24.079Is so good at long voice memos.
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00:05:26.000So good that you might not want to listen to them.
00:05:26.800 -->
00:05:30.240So good, so good that I have intentionally been like, I'm not listening to that.
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00:05:32.079Send it, send it to our one.
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00:05:33.839Yeah.
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00:05:39.279So yeah, I mean, just being intentional about it, but also being okay with space sometimes.
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00:05:51.680Like when you're friends with people for that long and life happens, you know, there can be seasons of we're talking regularly and seasons where there's more space and just trusting, like just being very open-handed about it, has kind of been our approach.
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00:05:52.959So that's a blessing.
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00:05:53.279Yeah.
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00:05:56.959So what were what were you talking about today at the discipleship conference?
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00:06:02.879Yeah, so I had two breakout sessions, and uh some of my favorite things to talk about, forget to talk about Jesus.
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00:06:22.240But primarily my first talk was about meeting him face to face and just the difficulty that that poses sometimes, even for the Christian, uh that that is showing up at mass and going and doing all the things and even praying, that sometimes in our familiarity we can lose sight of him and and not actually be meeting him.
00:06:22.720 -->
00:06:31.839Or we're meeting a distorted version of him because the enemy is subtly wearing away at our image of God, which he does.
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00:06:34.160And he's very subtle about it, very conniving.
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00:06:45.600And it can happen without us realizing, oh, it's just sort of shifting a little bit, I'm I'm distancing a little bit, I'm not trusting as much, or I don't I don't know how to need him because he seems to not come through for me, you know.
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00:07:02.800Um, so basically I was just trying to re-engage people in gospel stories about Jesus and his real personality and open the door again for another encounter and just encouraging people, you know, the encounter shouldn't just be one moment, but it's one of those one of those gospel stories.
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00:07:03.439Yeah.
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00:07:08.399Uh one of the ones I love the most is Saint Peter and the restoration of Peter.
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00:07:09.439I love Peter.
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00:07:16.319I just I just love he's so relatable, you know, for for I think many people.
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00:07:25.199And so I was just sharing about how when he goes back and Jesus has died and he goes back to what he always knows, which is fishing and he's in the boat and the voice comes.
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00:07:33.519If you caught anything, you know, and just how we can put a tone to scripture sometimes and not even realize it, like maybe it sounds like Jesus is sort of mocking or something.
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00:07:40.319But if we get into scripture and start using our imagination and like giving more context, like he's just risen from the dead.
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00:07:44.240He's probably in an amazing mood, and he's there for one reason.
00:07:44.319 -->
00:07:47.839You know, he's there for one reason, and that's to restore Peter's art.
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00:07:51.759And he's probably thinking, Oh, Peter, you have no idea what's about to happen.
00:07:51.920 -->
00:07:53.279Like he he was probably excited.
00:07:53.439 -->
00:07:58.319So I think there's a playful side of Jesus that we even hear in that, hey, have you caught anything yet?
00:07:58.399 -->
00:08:03.600Like, because he's he's like reminding Peter of a previous, previous moments like that have happened before.
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00:08:06.240Hey, how about you cast that net onto the other side?
00:08:06.399 -->
00:08:10.560It's like Peter must have been like, I've heard this before, but it can't be.
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00:08:12.480It can't be him, right?
00:08:12.639 -->
00:08:17.839You know, and then finally the big catch comes in and he's like, It's the Lord, and then jumps into the water.
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00:08:24.160And I I love this part where he's like, it says that Peter put his clothes on and then jumped in the water.
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00:08:29.040And that always reminded me of like Eden, you know, where it's like naked without shame.
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00:08:33.840And when they realized through their sin what they had done, they cover themselves up.
00:08:34.240 -->
00:08:36.960And I was like, Oh, that's just such a relatable experience.
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00:08:45.279Like Peter must have felt so much shame, like because he had just denied the Lord, that was the last time he saw him, and he's gonna go back and see him again.
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00:08:47.759So he covers up as if the Lord doesn't know the heart, right?
00:08:48.000 -->
00:08:49.200There's just all these beautiful moments.
00:08:49.519 -->
00:08:52.960Not only had he just denied the Lord, but he also denied his own covenant to the Lord.
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00:08:54.320Like No, I would never.
00:08:54.480 -->
00:08:55.440Yeah, I would never.
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00:08:59.279He just can't even fathom that he would do it, and then there he is at his weakest.
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00:08:59.519Yeah.
00:08:59.679 -->
00:09:08.080And then, you know, this beautiful moment where Jesus has has built this charcoal fire, and the only other charcoal fire is the one that Peter denied him at.
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00:09:16.720So he's like recreating a scene for restoration, even the smell, the everything, and he's made him, he's made him breakfast, knowing that Peter hadn't caught anything.
00:09:16.799 -->
00:09:18.159I'm like, he's just so kind.
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00:09:26.879Like he just wants to take care of Peter in every way before he has this conversation with him, which I just think is like the beautiful heart of Jesus.
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00:09:34.000It's kind of crazy how deeply like human Jesus is there.
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00:09:34.399Yeah.
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00:09:34.799Right?
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00:09:39.759Because like the turquoise I I'd never observed the detail or thought put that connection together till you just said it.
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00:09:40.399Me neither.
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00:09:52.720But like if you think of any traumatic time in your life, some of those familiar details of the traumatic time like are what draw you into the memory.
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00:09:53.039Yeah.
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00:09:53.360Right?
00:09:53.440 -->
00:09:55.840And so and and spark the healing.
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00:10:04.960Yeah, but in this case, like Jesus like brought up that detail and like is to your point on this restoration, like he's like redeeming even the details.
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00:10:05.600Exactly.
00:10:05.840 -->
00:10:06.720In a way, exactly.
00:10:07.039 -->
00:10:12.639Like so no longer can a charcoal fire be a trigger of my denial because Jesus redeemed the charcoal fire.
00:10:12.879 -->
00:10:13.120Exactly.
00:10:14.480 -->
00:10:18.080I I mean it's so he's so kind to think of all that.
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00:10:24.960Because if he hadn't done it at the fire, you could imagine if Peter was around another charcoal fire, those old memories would come back to him again, you know.
00:10:25.120 -->
00:10:26.559And I'm like, Jesus wants it all.
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00:10:30.879He wants to get into every part of our memory and our story and restore.
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00:10:31.440Yeah.
00:10:31.600 -->
00:10:31.759Wow.
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00:10:32.720He's so good.
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00:10:34.159Thanks for sharing that.
00:10:34.639 -->
00:10:39.279I was recently um with some friends talking about like the importance of memory.
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00:10:49.440And someone was emphasizing that how important it is with scripture, with the liturgy, that we soak our memory with the truth.
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00:10:52.320Yeah, I am so passionate about this subject.
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00:10:52.960I love it.
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00:11:02.720Because we we ha we actually have a bunch of a bunch of false memories, and then we have real memories from our fractured life that are populating things or real moments right now.
00:11:02.960 -->
00:11:04.799That are like especially accusatory.
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00:11:09.840Yeah, and that are like frankly way less true than than these memories.
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00:11:10.480Yes.
00:11:10.799 -->
00:11:15.279And um, I don't know, I love how you're t retelling this story for us, and kind of gives me more conviction.
00:11:15.360 -->
00:11:18.720You know, I'm not just praying because I'm a good Christian because I can should pray.
00:11:18.879 -->
00:11:22.399Yeah, but I'm also like yoking into the truth.
00:11:22.639 -->
00:11:28.559Yes, I'm I'm soaking in and like letting my mind, my soul like remember correctly.
00:11:29.039 -->
00:11:30.240And even that word's interesting.
00:11:30.399 -->
00:11:32.399Remember and remember.
00:11:32.720 -->
00:11:34.559Yes, yes, like to be put back together.
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00:11:36.159Yes, exactly, yes.
00:11:36.240 -->
00:11:50.320And I think that's one of the reasons why I love scripture so much, and this has been growing, you know, this love for scripture throughout my Christian journey and being a disciple, because we can't just remember our own story, like what you're saying.
00:11:50.399 -->
00:11:58.639Sometimes there's distorted views of God, and sometimes when we remember things, it's actually a false image of who he is and can cause more separation with him.
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00:12:02.240So we have to go into scripture to remember the bigger story.
00:12:02.480 -->
00:12:09.919You know, that has actually been one of the most powerful and restorative things in my own life is engaging with the story.
00:12:10.000 -->
00:12:22.480I'm like, I hold that story, the story of salvation, what God has done, what happened in the garden, how that mirrors the garden of my heart, what the enemy is doing, how God wants to restore, and we were never meant to experience this fracturing.
00:12:22.639 -->
00:12:24.159That was never his intention.
00:12:24.320 -->
00:12:26.799And I think for some of us, like we have to remember that.
00:12:26.960 -->
00:12:30.480Like, we were never meant to experience suffering like this.
00:12:30.720 -->
00:12:31.679No, he never wanted it.
00:12:32.559 -->
00:12:39.919And his goal is to bring it back to where it was, where it should have been the whole time, which is deep union and no more tears and no more crying anymore.
00:12:40.240 -->
00:12:40.480Wow.
00:12:40.639 -->
00:12:40.799Yeah.
00:12:41.039 -->
00:12:42.960You've mentioned God images a couple times.
00:12:43.120 -->
00:12:44.480The first time I heard that was from Dr.
00:12:44.559 -->
00:12:45.679Peter Malnowsky.
00:12:46.240 -->
00:12:51.840And he's quoting a prior work, I think, but he spends a lot of time talking about it through a Catholic Christian lens.
00:12:52.399 -->
00:12:56.960Um are you familiar with like that as a theory or a topic, God images?
00:12:57.120 -->
00:12:58.639Or is it uh I don't know.
00:12:58.799 -->
00:12:59.120Go for it.
00:12:59.279 -->
00:13:01.039I mean, I might have just stumbled along it.
00:13:01.840 -->
00:13:05.679I'm not an expert by any means, but it was just I am married to a counselor, so you know I could.
00:13:06.080 -->
00:13:07.120I was figuring that maybe Dr.
00:13:07.200 -->
00:13:13.360Bob Schutz and your husband had had spent some time in this space, but it just kind of blew my mind to actually think about that.
00:13:13.519 -->
00:13:25.840Like, okay, depending on where I am healthily in my emotional health, or across an experience of today, I might draw on an incorrect image of God.
00:13:26.080 -->
00:13:26.639Yes.
00:13:26.960 -->
00:13:32.480And I might have like a distant rule maker God, or I might have an authoritarian God in my mind.
00:13:32.639 -->
00:13:47.840So I might have this isn't the God that I profess to believe and that know who have encountered and been like converted by, but just when I'm fractured and I'm in a place of trauma or in a place of hurt or in a place of pain or in a place of woundedness, I might actually be triggered to view God improperly.
00:13:47.919 -->
00:13:48.000Yes.
00:13:48.240 -->
00:13:56.399So people have like studied what these themes are, and there's probably for every way I could be hurt, there's some, you know, related wrong image of God, right?
00:13:56.480 -->
00:13:56.799Yeah.
00:13:56.960 -->
00:14:13.679Um but what he said that what I thought was it was jarring to me and it made me really think deeply about these things, was he said that what what kind of worship is an improper vision of God worthy of?
00:14:16.559 -->
00:14:18.639And he said, well, none.
00:14:19.120 -->
00:14:19.279Yeah.
00:14:19.679 -->
00:14:23.840Because like an like God is all loving, all knowing, all merciful, right?
00:14:23.919 -->
00:14:38.080And so like these fractured images of God, like if we don't remind ourselves of who he really is and spend a lot of time in his presence, that he's the most real thing and that he can not that monsters aren't real, not that the world's not a problem, but that he can conquer them.
00:14:38.320 -->
00:14:39.519Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:14:39.840 -->
00:14:41.600That by his name they're driven out.
00:14:41.759 -->
00:14:49.919So not that the evil's not real or hurt isn't there, but that he's the most real and he's in charge and he's in it, he's in the authority seat and he loves me.
00:14:50.159 -->
00:14:55.759Yeah, and the catechism talks about this actually, I think it's like two three nine or something is the number, it's right around there, anyways.
00:14:55.919 -->
00:15:06.240Um, that he that parents are the first image of God for man, and then it talks about how, but often through our sin and our our weakness that we disfigure the face of God.
00:15:06.480 -->
00:15:10.480And then it goes on to say, but there is no father like God is father.
00:15:10.559 -->
00:15:12.879And I'm like, yes, like this is where it's at.
00:15:13.039 -->
00:15:20.320Like, because all of us to some degree, I mean, I I have three kids, I love them desperately, but I know that in my weakness, I don't get it right.
00:15:20.480 -->
00:15:23.039Sometimes I'm short with them, sometimes I miss their heart.
00:15:23.200 -->
00:15:33.360And if I'm the first representation of God for them, I I have even inadvertently disfigured the face of God for them, and God wants to restore all of it.
00:15:33.519 -->
00:15:34.639And you're so right.
00:15:34.720 -->
00:15:41.519Like, if we aren't worshiping the real God, we will worship something else because we won't be encountering the greatest love that we're searching for.
00:15:41.840 -->
00:15:42.720Or we'll stop worshiping.
00:15:42.879 -->
00:15:43.600Yes, yeah, yes.
00:15:43.840 -->
00:15:44.879Well, I love where you went.
00:15:45.039 -->
00:15:49.919That was where my next place went, a place of gravity was like, wait, I'm supposed to be an image bearer.
00:15:50.159 -->
00:15:50.480Yes.
00:15:50.720 -->
00:15:51.200Yeah.
00:15:51.919 -->
00:15:58.240And and there's this conviction that, like, wow, yeah, is how I'm loving, reflecting the image of God.
00:15:58.559 -->
00:15:58.799Right.
00:15:58.879 -->
00:16:00.000And uh it's a beautiful thing.
00:16:00.159 -->
00:16:11.039Like, actually, my second talk uh that I gave today was about um Christ in us, which is the hope of glory, and how when we encounter people in suffering, how do we accompany people in suffering?
00:16:11.360 -->
00:16:16.879And it's really to let that image of Christ, Christ who is alive in us, be able to come out.
00:16:16.960 -->
00:16:34.000And so the only way to do that is to one begin to to acknowledge that truth in reality, because often we don't, you know, we don't know that Christ is right here in us, and to engage with him there and to meet him there, and often we're just trying to avoid, we're busy, we're bombarded by so many things.
00:16:34.080 -->
00:16:42.320So yeah, it makes me think of everything that you guys are talking about, like and understanding the distortions that happen to us and like wounds and all these different things.
00:16:42.399 -->
00:16:56.080Like it brings me back to like the on the the image on my iPhone watch that I'll that I'll leave there that I have as my wallpaper screen, and I'm and I'm working on trying to find like a picture that I that I like enough and like resonate with.
00:16:56.159 -->
00:17:41.200But there's a I have this image in my head that came from doing a retreat with Father Jacques Philippe, which was amazing, where he talked about, and maybe he stole this from somewhere else, where he talked about the spiritual life being like this abandoned well on a property, and that this well is full of rocks and mud and dirt and seaweed, and maybe there's dead animals in there, and that like kind of rep that well represents our heart and what prayer it tends to be is like going into there, into that place and like being guided by the spirit of like I'm gonna take this rock out and throw it out and coming back in every now and then, but at the bottom of this well is this like infinite happiness of water that's just gonna like change everything about you, and every now and every now and then you get big splashes of that and consolation and everything.
00:17:41.440 -->
00:17:48.640Um but the more that we take out of there and the more that the Lord guides us and like kind of does surgery on on those distortions.
00:17:49.119 -->
00:17:59.599Um like there's just huge moments where a bunch of the rocks shift or like the the nasty smell is gone or whatever it is that it changes you.
00:17:59.839 -->
00:18:04.880Um and that's what prayer is ultimately is like returning to that and being healed in that way.
00:18:05.200 -->
00:18:10.799Um that's also in a similar way in like how we were formed as humans and like how therapy works in a way as well.
00:18:11.039 -->
00:18:17.039But that's just like what it made that it that's the image that you guys's conversations make me think of of just like constantly returning.
00:18:17.200 -->
00:18:33.359You talked about when we were talking about art with Leah, how it's kind of like iterative and in a similar way, that's what prayer and healing and understanding like with my when she's talking about distorting our children's distorting our children's view of God view of God.
00:18:33.440 -->
00:18:44.079I think about like my six-year-old son, I'm like, man, I've blown it, but the reality is like the beautiful part about it is that I have the opportunity to point my son to like where it's not gonna be distorted.
00:18:44.319 -->
00:18:45.680Where it's not gonna be distorted.
00:18:45.759 -->
00:18:48.559And if I'm pointing in that direction, I'm doing something right.
00:18:49.119 -->
00:18:51.680Um and believing in that.
00:18:51.759 -->
00:18:54.559So I had powerful.
00:18:54.799 -->
00:18:55.279I had this.
00:18:55.359 -->
00:19:00.880We were talking a little bit about liturgy when we were you know earlier, and I I had this experience.
00:19:01.039 -->
00:19:06.000A Protestant, a couple different Protestants recommend the same book to me, uh Habits of the Household.
00:19:06.559 -->
00:19:08.880It's written by an Anglican businessman.
00:19:10.079 -->
00:19:18.160And um he argues that our habits in life are like little L liturgies.
00:19:19.599 -->
00:19:26.880Um, but he spends quite some time talking about how the liturgy forms us, or like our regular, our rule of life forms us.
00:19:27.759 -->
00:19:45.680And what's been I don't know why I feel compelled to share this, but what was he kind of he does a great job of empowering you to like look at your own life and write like little liturgies, but he does give some examples, and the one he has for bedtime for the children has just continued to form my heart.
00:19:46.079 -->
00:19:51.680And it goes something like this son, do you know how much I love you?
00:19:52.640 -->
00:19:56.400And usually sometimes that's playful their answer, but it's usually a lot, you know.
00:19:56.880 -->
00:19:58.319It's like that's right, that's a lot.
00:19:58.799 -->
00:20:02.960Do I love you any more when you do good things?
00:20:03.920 -->
00:20:07.039And they usually say yes, at least when you're first teaching it to them.
00:20:07.680 -->
00:20:08.640Like, no, no, I don't.
00:20:09.039 -->
00:20:09.920How do I love you?
00:20:10.799 -->
00:20:12.799The same and always a lot, that's right.
00:20:13.440 -->
00:20:17.440Um and do I love you any less when you do bad things?
00:20:18.079 -->
00:20:20.960Most of us are tempted to say yes, for sure.
00:20:21.279 -->
00:20:22.160And the answer is no.
00:20:22.319 -->
00:20:23.039How do I love you?
00:20:23.359 -->
00:20:25.039Always the same and always a lot.
00:20:25.440 -->
00:20:26.079That's right.
00:20:26.720 -->
00:20:28.559And who else loves you this way?
00:20:29.599 -->
00:20:30.240The father.
00:20:30.720 -->
00:20:31.039Yeah.
00:20:32.160 -->
00:20:33.519Rest in that love.
00:20:34.720 -->
00:20:43.119And like what's interesting, it's like that little liturgy, like when I first like finally heard it for myself after trying it on precise.
00:20:43.759 -->
00:20:48.640Um it's like reforming me and reforming my children.
00:20:48.799 -->
00:21:10.480And so I'm just like trying to I'm looking at my own life and saying, to your point, like all the noise, all the things, like what do I what's on repeat in my life that can be patterning me into being yoked to Jesus, or be pulling me out of a pattern of a life of Jesus?
00:21:10.799 -->
00:21:12.319Yeah, that's so that's so good.
00:21:12.400 -->
00:21:21.119And I think just like we were talking about at the beginning about how intentional we need to be with friendship, you know, like especially when there's all kinds of distractions and things in between.
00:21:21.200 -->
00:21:31.920I would say being intentional about listening to God's voice, about reading his word, about staying in prayer, because often I do think we are hanging on every word the enemy is saying and we don't even know it, you know?
00:21:32.240 -->
00:21:36.480I want to hang on every word that God wants to say and that he has said.
00:21:36.640 -->
00:21:40.000And the ultimate word he has said is Jesus himself.
00:21:40.160 -->
00:21:44.480And so I'm like, Lord, please just come and speak.
00:21:44.640 -->
00:21:45.599Speak here to me.
00:21:45.680 -->
00:21:49.200I want to be hanging on your words, and I want them to change everything for me.
00:21:49.519 -->
00:21:52.559What's that look like in a daily life for you, Heather?
00:21:52.799 -->
00:21:58.240Yeah, I mean, honestly, it it's been a learning of a conversational relationship with God all throughout my day.
00:21:58.400 -->
00:21:59.759Like, yes, I try to set time aside.
00:22:00.480 -->
00:22:05.039To pray and I try to go to daily mass, you know, reception of the sacraments, all of that stuff.
00:22:05.279 -->
00:22:12.480But I it's really important for me to be communing with God all throughout the day, to realize that Christ lives in me.
00:22:12.640 -->
00:22:17.200I'm like, I can run away to this little secret place in my heart with him at any moment.
00:22:17.359 -->
00:22:18.319And I need him a lot.
00:22:18.400 -->
00:22:19.839You know, I need his wisdom a lot.
00:22:20.000 -->
00:22:21.200I want to hear his word a lot.
00:22:21.359 -->
00:22:22.319I need his comfort.
00:22:22.400 -->
00:22:24.000I need so many things from him.
00:22:24.319 -->
00:22:30.799I need to bring the places that are like crying out for attention or love or whatever, and I might be tempted to look somewhere else for it.
00:22:30.880 -->
00:22:37.920And I'm just keep going, Jesus, do you see this place that is in so much desperate need and I'm looking for it somewhere else?
00:22:38.079 -->
00:22:40.799I want to come to you right now with this place.
00:22:40.960 -->
00:22:42.720Like, will you come and love me here?
00:22:43.039 -->
00:22:44.400That's what it's looking like right now.
00:22:44.559 -->
00:22:47.039I mean, and obviously it's grown a lot over the years.
00:22:47.200 -->
00:22:48.240I'm trusting him more.
00:22:48.559 -->
00:22:56.160The more I've come to him over the years, the more I trust him, the more I believe him, the more I'm unsatisfied with the other things.
00:22:57.519 -->
00:23:07.279Would it be fair to say that all of us could have daily encounters like the one you opened with with Peter and Jesus?
00:23:07.519 -->
00:23:13.759Oh you can't anything yet, like where the Lord might be just reaching out and playful in a little bit of dialogue.
00:23:13.920 -->
00:23:15.599I just I just can't stress enough.
00:23:15.759 -->
00:23:16.640He's the best.
00:23:16.960 -->
00:23:18.160He is the best.
00:23:18.480 -->
00:23:22.799Like growing in a relationship with God, you can't come to the end of how amazing he is.
00:23:22.880 -->
00:23:27.839There's so many times I like just throw my head back and laugh at what he's up to.
00:23:28.000 -->
00:23:33.119I'm like, this is when you have the eyes to see, and it's like it's that's the transformation that's occurring.
00:23:33.200 -->
00:23:34.960It's not like I could see clearly all the time.
00:23:35.119 -->
00:23:35.759For sure not.
00:23:35.920 -->
00:23:41.839For sure there's still sin, for sure, all of those things in my life, but it's a growing, you know, it's that ongoing conversion that St.
00:23:42.000 -->
00:23:45.839Francis of Assisi was all about of being transformed to be able to see.
00:23:46.079 -->
00:23:49.039Like all of a sudden, you're like, oh my goodness, Lord, there you are.
00:23:49.200 -->
00:23:55.119There's your playfulness, like there's your, oh, there's your hand that is like pruning something in my life.
00:23:55.279 -->
00:23:58.559Like it just makes you more receptive because you trust him more.
00:23:58.799 -->
00:24:02.160You know, the more you encounter him, the more you will love him.
00:24:02.640 -->
00:24:04.799Because he's just so good.
00:24:06.000 -->
00:24:06.319Yeah.
00:24:06.559 -->
00:24:13.200When you want to communicate that to somebody, like I was I was having lunch with uh with a friend that I've met.
00:24:13.359 -->
00:24:17.119He's going through he's going through OCIA for the second time.
00:24:17.359 -->
00:24:35.279And at the cathedral where I where I work, we just took we just took them all through or or I just led a a summer discipleship series where we're going through like how to make your testimony, like the big vision of what discipleship looks like in a parish, like all this stuff, kind of the high-level stuff.
00:24:35.359 -->
00:24:45.200I mostly did it to find people who had lights on and uh discipleship stuff and wanted to be evangelizers and weren't just you know there for whatever reason.
00:24:45.279 -->
00:25:01.119And my friend Mark was going through that, and I went to lunch with him recently, and after we boiled through the whole thing, one of the things that he mentioned that he's like, Hey, I felt like I felt like you kind of blew through this part of it of like and assumed that I had a relationship with Jesus.
00:25:01.200 -->
00:25:08.319And it's his second year coming from the Methodist Church, going through CIA, and he says, What actually is that?
00:25:09.200 -->
00:25:10.240What actually is that?
00:25:10.319 -->
00:25:13.519And you know, you and you say something, you're like, it's just it's the best.
00:25:13.599 -->
00:25:38.640You just you just go in through him and you have a conversation and you share with him and all of that stuff, and it can when you're talking to somebody who's never really experienced it before, it can kind of sound you know, frou-frou or whatever he was, like Mike's like a or Mark's like a uh um he's a really successful business guy, but like to to end it off, like what's like when someone asks you, like, dude, why Jesus?
00:25:38.720 -->
00:25:42.319Like I like why a relationship with Jesus, why a personal one?
00:25:42.480 -->
00:25:45.359Like, what's your go-to to like talk about within that?
00:25:45.920 -->
00:25:49.519I mean, you know, in some ways I can only speak from my own experience.
00:25:49.759 -->
00:25:51.759I've tried so many other things.
00:25:52.319 -->
00:25:59.519Even things that were fun, you know, things that were bad, things that are sinful, things that were like satisfying in a moment, you know.
00:25:59.599 -->
00:26:02.480But I'm like, there is nothing like him.
00:26:02.799 -->
00:26:04.559There is no one like him.
00:26:05.039 -->
00:26:10.400Everything else will fail, you know, even your spouse who you love, and they're amazing.
00:26:10.480 -->
00:26:15.519You know, no one can hold the weight of what your heart needs like him.
00:26:16.640 -->
00:26:27.519And yeah, I just share personal encounters that I've had and invite them to do the same because it it, I mean, I've heard priests who have said I didn't know Jesus, my whole priesthood, until just recently.
00:26:27.759 -->
00:26:30.400Like, I mean, there's so many people, you don't have to feel ashamed about it.
00:26:30.480 -->
00:26:35.279It's like, hey, if there's a desire in your heart, he already wants you, he's already waiting for you.
00:26:37.119 -->
00:26:41.440Like, I'm like, when you're sharing the story with this guy, I'm like, yes, these are the most exciting moments.
00:26:41.599 -->
00:26:45.599And then even for me, you know, journey with God, there's still parts of me that haven't met him yet.
00:26:45.680 -->
00:26:49.519Yeah, there's little parts of me that are afraid, that have been abandoned, that don't know him yet.
00:26:49.599 -->
00:26:53.039I'm like, this is so exciting because they're gonna get to meet him too.
00:26:53.119 -->
00:27:01.680And so, just as an encouragement for people who are listening, no matter where you find yourself right now, Jesus is waiting right there to meet you.
00:27:01.839 -->
00:27:03.519There's always an encounter with him.
00:27:03.680 -->
00:27:10.640That is why his name is Emmanuel, because he's with us and he's made himself accessible through Jesus at all moments.
00:27:10.960 -->
00:27:11.279Amen.
00:27:11.920 -->
00:27:12.160Amen.
00:27:12.400 -->
00:27:13.519Heather, that was awesome.
00:27:13.599 -->
00:27:14.960Thanks for joining us for a little bit.
00:27:15.039 -->
00:27:16.160Glad you're here in Oklahoma.
00:27:16.240 -->
00:27:17.200When do you when do you head out?
00:27:17.440 -->
00:27:18.559Tomorrow morning, flying out.
00:27:19.200 -->
00:27:19.920It's been a blessing to be here.
00:27:20.079 -->
00:27:20.559Yeah, super cool.
00:27:20.880 -->
00:27:22.400Remind our listeners again how they can.
00:27:23.200 -->
00:27:27.759How can they stay in contact with you, find your stuff, buy the merch, all that stuff.
00:27:28.079 -->
00:27:29.039I have a couple books out.
00:27:29.200 -->
00:27:29.680Abide.
00:27:29.759 -->
00:27:30.559It's a healing journey.
00:27:30.640 -->
00:27:32.640You can get an Avi Maria Press or Amazon or whatever.
00:27:32.720 -->
00:27:35.279I also have an advent devotional called Encountering a Manual.
00:27:35.599 -->
00:27:37.680So all these themes that I'm talking about today.
00:27:37.759 -->
00:27:43.279Um, but I have a podcast called Abiding Together with Sister Miriam and Michelle, my two friends I talked about, and they can find me there.
00:27:43.599 -->
00:27:43.839Awesome.
00:27:44.400 -->
00:27:44.960Thank you so much.
00:27:45.039 -->
00:27:47.200We'll see you and we'll see you next time you're in Oklahoma, hopefully.
00:27:47.359 -->
00:27:48.079All right, God bless you.
