From Miscarriage to Moon Signs: Motherhood, Loss & Becoming Someone New with Tory Sjovall

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Welcome to Getting Grounded, the open and honest
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conversation about the transition of parenthood and everything that comes along with
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it. The joy, the chaos, the fulfillment, the challenge,
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the identity shifts, the relationship changes. Let's talk about
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Hello friends, welcome! Today I
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have Tori Shoval, who is an incredible
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human that I'm very, very lucky to call a good friend, um, and also,
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uh, an astrologer, a tarot reader, a mom of 3. She has
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a million offerings that we will get into towards the end because, um,
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I just think everyone should book with her and use her and do all the
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things. Um, but she also just has like a great life experience and so
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relatable and so many things for us to chat through. So I'm so, so pumped
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to have you you here today. Yeah, I'm so excited. Thanks for having me.
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Of course. Um, you're so easy to talk to, so I know we're just gonna
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have such a great chat. Um, but before we get into, like, you know,
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the meat of a lot of things, um, I want you to chat about yourself
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and, um, your background, where you're from, your mom-parent
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life setup, philosophies on that, all the things, journey to motherhood.
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Give us the Tori as a human gist. Yeah.
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I am originally a Massachusetts girly. I think you knew that. Did you know that?
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I forgot that. But like, I obviously, I know you live in New Jersey,
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which you're about to say where I'm from. But I love New England.
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And I'm like always so drawn there. So of course, we relate on so many
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levels. So I— yeah, I'm a Jersey girl. I've been a Jersey girl
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for like 10 years now, which is crazy to say. Maybe even no longer.
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I moved here when I was 24. And I'm 37. So 13, we're adding years.
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Wow. Clearly. Math is mathing.
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Yeah, the math is mathing and I'm not keeping up.
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Yeah, I— there's so many things. My journey
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to like spirituality, my journey to motherhood. Um, I was
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just like a typical corporate girly for a long time. Um,
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I was working as a buyer and I was buying jewelry.
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I was living my best 20s life, like traveling, doing all the things.
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And then around the same time that I got married,
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I started like a spiritual awakening, maybe like a little bit before.
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Um, I found yoga and Reiki and all of
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the things. So that started this like trickle effect
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to where I am now with my spiritual business that I've had for over
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6 years, which is crazy to say. Wow. Yeah. And then,
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yeah, around the same time, it was all around my Saturn return,
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which we can talk about, like 28. I met
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my husband at 26, we got married like 28, 29, I had my daughter around
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30. It's literally all Saturn return things. And now I'm
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like, it's crazy. I feel like I am
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the same, but I'm a completely different person, if that makes
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sense. I think it probably makes complete sense. When I met
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my husband, I was like a Bud Light-slinging New York City happy hour
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girl. He's always like,
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you tricked me. Because now it's like, I hardly drink now.
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I actually haven't drank in years. But if I do, it's like an organic glass
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of bread. And like, that's like what I'm doing with my life. And now
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I'm like this woo-woo spiritual girly when we were like at sporting events
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together. Like, it's just— I've gone like 0 to 100 in a different direction.
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That is so funny. Yeah, but it's so— it feels so
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good, you know? And he's just been there for the whole ride, which I give
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him a lot of credit for. That's amazing. Has he jumped on to any of
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it or he's still the Bud Light slinging guy and you're just on the— You
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know, he's definitely calmed down alongside me. It's taken
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him longer to get there, but he's definitely
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not like doing Reiki or coming to a sound bath with me. But interesting.
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Yeah, he's— That is so funny. When is your birthday?
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May 10th. '89? Yeah, '89.
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Okay. I'm February of '90, so we're like almost a year apart. But your timeline
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is so similar to mine. Like, Michael and I— I met him when I
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was 24, we started dating at 25, but we physically moved in together to like
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the same city when we were 26, and then— which was rough in
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and of itself. 28, I feel like I too started
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experiencing Saturn return related stuff. And people
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usually say like, no, it's right around 30. I'm like, no, I was fucking lost
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starting at— I mean, my brother died when I was 26, so that was definitely
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the catalyst. I think you knew that part. Yeah. Um, but the real like
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what am I doing on this earth started around 28. And then I feel
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like everything shifted. And I was a super spiritual kid, but it came back
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around his death. And then like, that really started it. But I
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went and got Reiki trained, I got yoga trained. Like, all of that was around
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the same timeline you're describing, which is just fascinating to me because I'm like,
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there's a lot of parallels. Yeah, we were probably like living
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it in tandem, you know? Um, but Michael is super weird
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and out there too. And not that he had like spiritual awakenings, but he too
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had like weird spiritual encounters when he was younger. So it was easy
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for the buy-in for me to be like, I'm gonna do all this weird shit.
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And he's like, cool, I'm gonna come along for the ride. Like, he never did
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any of the certifications, but he would like do all the things, come to all
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the things. Like, I love that. Would have— we'd have the weirdest like conversations.
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So I too probably tricked him. But luckily there was like pieces of him in
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here that there that he was like, oh wait, I actually think that stuff too.
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Because I was doing like picklebacks and getting wasted with him.
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And now I'm like, uh, I'm a parent.
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Yeah, exactly. Greg's mom actually was Reiki certified like way before it was cool.
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Oh shit, she like opened that door for me to
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be like a weirdo with him even though he's not like parallel
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with me there, you know what I mean? Like me and her still, we do
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Reiki, like we talk about it. Like he just, he's used to this life even
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though it's not exactly— he's open. Yeah,
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yeah, he's definitely not like getting a headache and asking for energy healing, you know?
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Right. You know what's so bizarre about that? Like Sometimes
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there's like a phenomenon where you—
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because like all of the things, therapy can explain it, spiritual stuff can explain
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it, but you gravitate towards like unhealed
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things or similar wounds or similar upbringing paths. And like,
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that's very— that's pretty clear. And of course, it like gives you the opportunity
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to heal things or just see things differently, which is essentially what
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Greg did. Like he, he found his same path to like that
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upbringing but didn't even know it. So like, where was the subconscious part lying?
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Like, you didn't present that way, but then you underlying were that way.
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So that's fascinating. That's so true. I mean, I've always been like
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an astrology girly, but like I wasn't talking about that on our first date,
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you know? Right, right. And it was probably more like, like I've always been into
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it too, but like because I'd read my horoscope, not that I'm like, let me
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dive into my chart, which is now what I'm into, you know? Yes, totally.
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Yes. Fascinating. Okay, so now you two are married and you have 3
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children. Yes. Um, ages 6,
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4, and 0. Baby, he's a 3-month-old. Yeah,
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yeah. I can't even believe we're doing this while you have a 3-month-old. Um,
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is postpartum life different this time around? Oh my gosh,
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I could just cry. I probably will cry 5 times even talking
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about him. Yeah, it's just been the most healing experience that
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I've had. Um, I just postpartum
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for me has typically been like the hardest times of my life.
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Like, yeah, crazy sleep exhaustion. Like, there's a
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reason why lack of sleep is a form of torture. Like, it is hard.
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It's really hard. And I've had gut issues and highly sensitive
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kids. And I— there also is just something to be said for experience.
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Like, once I had my third, it's like, I've done this.
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The first time was really hard. I also had my first in May 2020,
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so we're talking like absolute madness
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just in like the world, never mind my own little
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bubble of insanity. And I also believe that
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like to a degree, of course we can't control everything, but like our babies reflect
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our energy and they're— my energy was a hot-ass mess in
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May 2020. Are you kidding me? Like, are you kidding me? The new mom,
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like as you're saying this, I'm thinking like the new mom anxiety in and
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of itself, like even if you're not an anxious person, you are second-guessing every single
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thing. Doing that during COVID where You like can't even—
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you have to question if you can go outside safely, literally with the baby.
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Like, I can't even imagine. No, we lived in a— you have to take them
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to the doctor and then you're like, how do I do this? We were
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like, should we not be taking her in the hallway of our apartment when other
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people were out there? Like, it was that level of— yeah. Also because you're in—
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were you in New Jersey? New York? Like that? Yeah, New Jersey. Yeah. It's like
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the epicenter. It was so crazy over there, you know, there was no removal from
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it. No, you couldn't get away. It was just like madness. Like, our only
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safe place was like walking her in the stroller outside. But we lived
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in an apartment. There was no green space. It was just like we were nutso.
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Um, so God bless that child. Like, she made it through a lot
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from a young age without even knowing. And so this time it's
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like, oh, nothing could have been harder than that. Nothing.
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Like, we had no help. People were nervous to come over. Like, we were nervous
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to have her around people. And then like my, my second, it got a little
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easier. And then this time, my, my middle and my youngest
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are 4 years apart. So it's like, it's also different having like
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kids that can go to the bathroom by themselves, get dressed themselves
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when you have a newborn. Because I can be like, hey, we're done with breakfast,
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go get ready. And like, yeah, it's not like they're going to do it immediately
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when I say it. We're still battling over pretty much everything, but they can,
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you know. Right, right. Wow. So did
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you— do you notice any, like,
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not differences, but, like,
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effects from that kid to kid of, like,
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is Violet— like, is she a little more anxious? Does it— that— did it
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land, or did you have to, like, okay, okay?
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Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, you know,
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they're both— they're so young, and we'll see,
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but Yeah, I— the thing is, it's like, what is nature
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versus nurture? I'm still figuring that out, and I don't think I'll know the answer,
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like what part of this was just nature and what part of this was my
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craziness, right? But I do think I realized,
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like probably a year postpartum with her, I realized how in
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a tunnel I was. Like, I definitely had postpartum depression and anxiety,
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and I just didn't realize how bad it was until I started like coming out.
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Right. And then she, like, came out with me. So it definitely
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affected her. Interesting. Yeah. Fascinating. So, yeah, the nature versus— I have
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2 things to note on here. The nature versus nurture part is fascinating.
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Of course, we will never, ever know. And in the very first episode
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of this show, I had, like, touched on it briefly with a friend of mine
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because she's saying, like, I do believe it's 50/50. And of
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course, not necessarily that, but that there's impact of both. And there definitely are.
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And I full— completely agree. But because I have this
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unique perspective of having twins that like truly the minute
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they were born, they were completely different children. Like they had 2 different personalities that
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have stayed that way from like nothing has changed. One is one way and
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the other is the other way. And that is them. And you can, we,
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you know, we're parenting them the same. Of course we're not parenting them exactly the
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same cuz one's a boy and one's a girl and I'm hypersensitive to that.
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Mm-hmm. But you just see how different they are and there's like parts
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of them that they're like so loving and kind and warm and like this,
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the way that my husband and I both naturally are.
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And they're like their own people, and they have all of these, you know,
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differences between them that are nature, right?
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And so, of course, both are impacted, but there, there's definitely chunks
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of it that you have no control over, I feel like, or just that,
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like, you know, that is the way that it is. And of course, you can
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influence it. But, um, so it's fascinating that I,
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I have that I never knew that part of the experience
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with twins was gonna be that way. So that has been very interesting.
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And then the postpartum piece is,
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or just like the depression, anxiety, and the like coming out of it.
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I feel like I was not, my kids were not born in like the heart
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of COVID you know? Like we had, I had a, we also had no help
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and we had 2 babies at once. So very stressful experience. But even during it,
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I would've told you I was fine. You know, like I would reference to people
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all the time that like, I, you know, I, um, turned my placenta into pills.
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And so I was like, oh, you know, I was doing all the things that
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made me feel fine, and I'm not having any hormonal swings. And, you know,
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and I did truly feel that way. And I will, like, as if a badge
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of honor, I wear that. I tell people, like, or at the time I was
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telling people, I only cry— the only times I cry are about my dog,
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because I felt so such guilt that I couldn't give him the mothering
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that I was at one point. And now being on
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the outside of that, I'm like, I was a fundamentally different person.
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Like, they're looking at the hormones and how they change
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and what you're in the thick of and the emotions and how
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high they are. And even if you feel quote unquote normal, like even
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just, yeah, it's just wild to have the outside perspective
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and then even see people that are freshly postpartum and like kind of being like,
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oh, I remember what that felt like and it was so different. So you
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do, you are in a bubble no matter the circumstance and then you come out
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of it. Yes. And you— I truly believe that, like, most of the time you
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don't even realize how in it you are. Like, I remember
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having, like, the hardest time of my life. My daughter has had gut issues,
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so it was like she just cried all the time and all I wanted to
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do was help her. And it's like, I look back on the conversations of what
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I was talking to people about and I'm like, well, who was even talking?
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Like, who— what was I even saying? It's like
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I was so all consumed and I didn't realize how intense it was.
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It was wild. But I don't— now that I'm on my
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third round, I also am physically supporting myself.
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Like, I've learned a lot about, like,
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mineral depletion and just, like, all of this stuff. I'm also not
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fighting co-sleeping. Like, we co-sleep. And I
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remember fighting that so hard with her. And because I just
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felt like, what if it's not safe? What if I'm not doing it right?
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She should be sleeping in her bed. And it's like, I just don't have the
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mental anguish anymore of all of these things. I'm just— If
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he goes in his little crib for a couple hours from 8 to 11,
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cool. If he doesn't, cool. Like, I just,
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yeah, not that serious. And I just like ride the waves easier,
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I think, because I've done it before. Yeah. It's so interesting
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as a parent to have this perspective now and to be like,
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now I totally understand why birth order has such an impact on a person.
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Why? Because first kids are bearing the brunt of all
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of this and like third and fourth kids are like, hanging out
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on the sofa while the other kids are like running around on
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a— like running like crazy, and you're like, everyone's fine. I was literally
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just thinking about that exact thing yesterday. I'm like, no wonder,
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man. Like, I'm a different person. I'm literally
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a different person. And yeah, you know, she gets more
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time with me, and we had more one-on-one, and you know,
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there's pros and cons, but It's also like,
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yeah, I am way more chill now. Like, I can handle
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things very differently than I could with my first. Yeah, that's amazing.
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And so that does— that's a good, like, initiation into,
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um, part of the things I want to talk about that you've been posting a
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lot about lately of, like, motherhood as an initiation and about
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all these gifts that it gives you beyond, you know, the gift of life.
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And I'm wondering, one, I want to talk about that perspective and all of the
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realizations that you've had and the things that you've been saying. But two, I'm wondering
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if Because I think motherhood is that way no
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matter what, like first time, third time, tenth time, you know, right?
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It gives us that. But I'm wondering if you are seeing
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it that way because of this, like,
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distance of the time between the others and now this new
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perspective that you have. Like, you're able to— you're not so inundated in
16:31.304 --> 16:34.621
it by being able to do this the third time. Is that what's been able
16:35.121 --> 16:38.468
to give you the perspective of seeing it this way? Or have you always
16:38.968 --> 16:41.643
seen it that way and now you're just having the time to be more vocal
16:42.143 --> 16:45.169
about it? No, I definitely— like I said, I feel like I was in a
16:45.669 --> 16:48.744
tornado for the first year. Like, and I
16:48.856 --> 16:52.463
do believe that every, every birth is literally
16:52.963 --> 16:57.000
just rebirthing a version of you. And like, now that I had done that twice,
16:57.497 --> 17:00.542
I knew, like, when I was pregnant this last round, I was like, all right,
17:00.558 --> 17:04.284
here we go. And it's like almost this like weird anticipation,
17:05.506 --> 17:07.616
anticipation, like anticipatory energy where it's like,
17:09.227 --> 17:12.224
I know I'm gonna be a completely different person. Like, am I ready for that?
17:12.289 --> 17:15.873
Like, and it sounds crazy because this is my third
17:15.906 --> 17:19.951
time. Like, I'm settled. And like I told you, I've already changed so much from,
17:20.032 --> 17:23.155
you know, when right before I had her to where I'm at now.
17:23.933 --> 17:27.694
But I feel it coming again. And it's like I've been feeling
17:27.742 --> 17:30.901
these rumblings and I'm like, oh, a part of me is just like, do we
17:31.401 --> 17:34.562
have to like rebirth every single time? Still,
17:34.770 --> 17:38.190
for a minute. But I do think like part of your question is
17:38.222 --> 17:42.220
like, is this just how I've always viewed it versus my—
17:42.720 --> 17:45.833
has my experience brought me here? And I think that like, you know, that I
17:46.333 --> 17:49.895
had loss before my son, and I
17:49.943 --> 17:53.266
think that that is a massive piece of why I'm
17:53.314 --> 17:56.493
so at peace now. I think The one thing,
17:56.670 --> 17:59.962
and I think I would be like doing a disservice to people
18:00.462 --> 18:03.671
going through infertility to not say, like, a part of it is just because I'm
18:04.171 --> 18:08.536
not fucking dealing with that anymore. Like, it was so hard
18:08.953 --> 18:12.470
that anything feels easier on the other end. Like, you know what I mean?
18:12.968 --> 18:17.351
Like, physically, mentally, emotionally, I was in such a
18:17.479 --> 18:20.948
weird place for almost 2 years that it's like
18:21.573 --> 18:25.166
the minute he came out of me, I was like, my family is complete.
18:25.246 --> 18:28.357
And I know that sounds cheesy, but it's like, no, it doesn't. I worked so
18:28.469 --> 18:31.853
hard, worked so hard, whatever that means, to get here,
18:32.543 --> 18:36.055
and it's over. Like, I don't have to wonder if he's coming anymore. I don't
18:36.071 --> 18:39.263
have to— wow. My pregnancy was like really hard, so it was
18:39.295 --> 18:42.952
just like just getting through that mentally, emotionally, again physically.
18:43.449 --> 18:46.913
Um, it's just almost like this relief. So I think that's
18:47.413 --> 18:50.313
been a big part of why I'm so happy, because I'm like, nothing can feel
18:50.826 --> 18:53.859
As bad as that felt. Fascinating. So I have,
18:54.036 --> 18:57.117
um, one of my best friends here, and actually there's a whole episode with her
18:57.326 --> 19:01.514
on her IVF journey to give perspective on that since I
19:02.014 --> 19:05.253
don't have it and I can't give it. Right. Um, and so many people do
19:05.269 --> 19:08.768
have not the exact experience, but a version of that experience. So many of my
19:08.816 --> 19:12.811
friends have, like, you know, my little bubble, if I know so many in
19:13.311 --> 19:17.176
the world, you know, there's so many. Um, and so I think it's such
19:17.676 --> 19:21.751
an important conversation, but I also think what you just said is fascinating because Correct
19:22.251 --> 19:25.010
me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you didn't experience it in your early
19:25.347 --> 19:28.799
pregnancies and then it came later. So you've had the
19:29.299 --> 19:32.669
full range of thinking and knowing and anticipating that it's
19:32.717 --> 19:36.218
going to work like it did the first time and then going through it differently.
19:36.266 --> 19:39.943
So can you talk about that a little bit? Yes, exactly. One of my really
19:40.443 --> 19:42.704
close friends, I just went for a walk with her and I was telling her
19:42.849 --> 19:46.269
about my birth because this was also my only traumatic birth.
19:46.846 --> 19:49.733
Oh, perfect. Yeah. And she was just like,
19:50.390 --> 19:54.079
the universe just said you are supposed to experience the full
19:54.579 --> 19:57.510
gamut. Like, you got to— like, with my daughter, like,
19:57.526 --> 20:00.878
we got pregnant easily. And with my son, we got pregnant the first
20:01.378 --> 20:05.913
try. And both of my pregnancies were like fairly un—
20:06.346 --> 20:09.682
like, there was nothing, nothing going on that like made me worried or scared.
20:09.730 --> 20:13.482
And, you know, I had 2 natural water births, and it just it
20:13.546 --> 20:17.039
all just happened pretty easily. I mean, there were like blips here and there,
20:17.247 --> 20:20.179
like, you know, weird thing on a scan or whatever, but nothing ended up being
20:20.692 --> 20:23.993
anything relevant. And I had 2 babies and it was just like,
20:24.057 --> 20:26.701
okay. And it was almost like me and my husband were just like, do we
20:26.765 --> 20:29.953
want to have a 3rd? Um, and I know that people have—
20:29.985 --> 20:33.206
that have had a hard time getting pregnant are probably wanting to punch me through
20:33.706 --> 20:36.763
the microphone, just like— because I now have experienced both sides and I'm like,
20:36.779 --> 20:40.095
I understand how annoying hearing that can be when you're
20:40.143 --> 20:43.608
like in the depths of hell. Um, so I got pregnant
20:44.108 --> 20:47.186
with what I thought would be my third, and I was almost 9 weeks when
20:47.218 --> 20:50.813
I went to my first appointment. And because they won't see you till 8 weeks
20:51.313 --> 20:54.986
in most places, and it just so happened that I was almost 9 weeks,
20:55.082 --> 20:58.259
and we went, I did the blood work, like everything
20:58.516 --> 21:02.207
looked normal. And then, um, they did
21:02.707 --> 21:06.011
a scan on an iPad, which was like new technology. Yeah,
21:06.059 --> 21:09.734
weird. They were just like, this is very early, like you're early on,
21:09.750 --> 21:12.911
we'll see how it goes. So they go to
21:13.411 --> 21:15.944
see like if they can find anything in the sac and it's just a black
21:16.444 --> 21:19.891
hole. Oh. So I had something called a blighted ovum. I don't know if
21:20.391 --> 21:24.496
you've heard of it, but no, it's basically when your body is acting
21:24.592 --> 21:27.834
pregnant and there's no baby inside of the sac.
21:28.299 --> 21:32.134
Oh my God. So I was fully like, I threw up right before my 8,
21:32.214 --> 21:36.611
my 9-week appointment. Like I had all pregnancy symptoms and
21:36.819 --> 21:39.788
my HCG was as high as it should be. It was like 8 weeks.
21:39.852 --> 21:43.109
It might've been like a week less now after that we like looked at it.
21:43.686 --> 21:47.149
But everything was, you're pregnant. It felt exactly like my
21:47.649 --> 21:52.006
other pregnancies. But what happens is like there's some type of chromosomal abnormality
21:52.038 --> 21:55.468
where like the fetal pole and the baby doesn't actually form,
21:55.484 --> 21:58.819
but there is a sac. So there was no baby.
21:59.668 --> 22:03.596
So that's another thing that like blew my mind about the miscarriage.
22:03.644 --> 22:07.026
And I think people that have had a blighted ovum can probably relate
22:07.526 --> 22:11.562
to this, is like there was no baby that died. But I was pregnant.
22:11.851 --> 22:14.800
So it was like this weird thing where I'm like, do I get to say
22:15.300 --> 22:18.053
I lost a baby? Do I get to say— you know what I mean?
22:18.390 --> 22:21.707
Whoa. Yeah, it was such a mindfuck,
22:21.915 --> 22:25.522
and it was truly like the craziest and most difficult
22:26.022 --> 22:29.865
thing I've ever dealt with. That is wild. I obviously
22:30.365 --> 22:34.368
had no idea that that could even happen. Yes. And then from—
22:34.416 --> 22:38.023
because we're having a spiritual chat, um, the soul
22:38.199 --> 22:42.017
perspective of it, like That's— that is hard for me too.
22:42.755 --> 22:46.736
Yeah. You know, me and my husband had picked out
22:46.800 --> 22:49.561
names for a girl and a boy, like, just, you know, for fun.
22:50.300 --> 22:53.975
And we had this girl name and we saw it. When I tell you
22:54.072 --> 22:57.603
I was pregnant for 37 days, I know that because I wrote about it,
22:57.619 --> 23:01.375
not because I just, like, memorized it, but I was pregnant for like a little
23:01.472 --> 23:05.083
over a month. And when I tell you we saw it every day,
23:05.164 --> 23:08.535
we saw it on street signs. We saw it. We went to an Airbnb and
23:08.551 --> 23:11.647
it was called the Name Estate. And we didn't know
23:11.727 --> 23:15.030
when we booked it. Like, it was— there were so
23:15.046 --> 23:17.562
many signs that this little girl was coming.
23:18.236 --> 23:21.602
And it was crazy because I'm like, I don't know if you know
23:22.102 --> 23:25.481
this about me, but I've also done like spirit baby communication. Like when I was—
23:25.981 --> 23:29.248
yes. Yeah. Like when I was doing Reiki, I still do Reiki, but not as
23:29.361 --> 23:32.775
often. Um, when I was doing it more often, I was doing
23:32.839 --> 23:36.430
spirit baby sessions and like connecting with people's babies when they were
23:36.930 --> 23:39.870
pregnant. And I just felt so confident in this.
23:39.918 --> 23:43.429
So then when that happened, that also like threw me for such
23:43.929 --> 23:47.621
a loop. And it still screws with
23:47.654 --> 23:50.949
me sometimes because I see the name still all the time,
23:51.322 --> 23:55.119
but I now have a little boy. And like the minute that
23:55.167 --> 23:58.443
pregnancy ended— and there was a lot of other stuff that happened after,
23:58.475 --> 24:01.702
I don't know how deep you want to get into it— but I knew a
24:01.766 --> 24:05.424
boy was coming. I just like had a feeling, but I
24:05.472 --> 24:08.841
still wonder, I'm like, so were you there or
24:09.341 --> 24:11.985
was I just fucking crazy? Like, you know what I mean? Definitely not crazy.
24:12.050 --> 24:14.873
But yes, I know what you mean. I have a spirit baby obsession. I,
24:15.178 --> 24:19.060
like, long before I even wanted to get pregnant, I— for—
24:19.252 --> 24:22.044
because of the loss of my brother and because of a lot of other things
24:22.060 --> 24:25.284
that I went through from, you know,
24:25.429 --> 24:29.102
a kind of motherhood standpoint, I, um, really,
24:29.134 --> 24:33.047
like, I needed to read that book and I read
24:33.127 --> 24:36.796
it. I've read it multiple times. I've sent it to no less than 2 dozen
24:36.908 --> 24:40.674
people. Like, I, I love it. I think even if you're—
24:41.174 --> 24:44.151
yeah, even if you're not spiritual, like, it is such an incredible book. Of course,
24:44.343 --> 24:46.730
if you're not spiritual, the beginning of it, you're gonna be like, this is fucking
24:46.762 --> 24:50.031
weird. But it's just so great. And the perspectives
24:50.531 --> 24:53.732
that it gives in, like, very normal life of the very normal people who came
24:53.796 --> 24:57.433
to have sessions with him and all of that. Um, but I sat on
24:57.933 --> 25:00.589
a plane ride back with my husband. I— it was a very long plane at
25:00.782 --> 25:04.378
I don't remember where we were coming back from, but the tears that just
25:04.878 --> 25:08.150
the entire book just like nonstop streamed down my face that Michael was
25:08.166 --> 25:11.216
like, people on the plane are gonna wonder like, what's going on?
25:11.281 --> 25:14.010
Like, am I bringing you against your will? Like, what's happening here?
25:14.266 --> 25:18.151
Just silent sobbing. Yeah. Just silent sobbing the entire
25:18.344 --> 25:22.566
plane ride. And so I have, every time I
25:22.614 --> 25:26.097
think about anything related to babies, I think about
25:26.146 --> 25:29.484
like the soul connection, spirit babies, and if they're around you. And I
25:29.661 --> 25:32.952
wonder with the twins, like, You know, we— how did
25:33.452 --> 25:35.119
that happen? And did you go and get a friend? And what, you know,
25:35.199 --> 25:37.559
is— I was kind of certain for a while one of them was going to
25:38.059 --> 25:40.657
be my brother's soul, and I don't think that they are. Um,
25:41.396 --> 25:44.510
but there's just so much, so much. And I was having this conversation last night
25:45.010 --> 25:48.154
with a friend, actually, and they are not a spiritual couple. And so, um,
25:48.443 --> 25:51.814
or maybe they are, but not in the way that, like, the more,
25:51.895 --> 25:55.603
like, girly, trendy, poppy way that you and I are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,
25:55.747 --> 25:59.937
and so I said something about the
26:00.437 --> 26:03.227
soul component that because I, Michael and I are never sure, and we talk,
26:03.548 --> 26:06.999
twins are so hard and we're like barely keeping our heads above water. And so
26:07.481 --> 26:10.723
we're like, yes, we love having, we love being parents and we love having children.
26:11.237 --> 26:14.399
And if a lot of circumstances were different, we'd very easily be like, yes,
26:14.463 --> 26:17.432
let's continue to grow our family. But it gives us a lot of pause for
26:17.932 --> 26:21.365
many reasons and we're always back and forth on it. But I have
26:21.865 --> 26:25.169
this, I feel like, and maybe this is wrong, but this is my
26:25.313 --> 26:28.906
spiritual aspect, perspective of it, and I would love for people to tell
26:28.970 --> 26:33.122
me they feel otherwise. But, um, I feel like if we
26:33.218 --> 26:37.001
wouldn't be so back and forth if there wasn't like a presence
26:37.081 --> 26:40.159
or multiple presences tied to us.
26:40.912 --> 26:44.519
And very recently when I was thinking about when we first were
26:44.760 --> 26:48.222
having the twins, we had, um, obviously we had to name 2 kids
26:48.722 --> 26:52.999
at the same time with 2 different genders. So the lists were astronomically long and
26:53.031 --> 26:55.901
there, this one particular name was on the list, but it was not like a
26:56.401 --> 26:59.076
high contender. Actually naming my daughter was more difficult than naming my son.
26:59.992 --> 27:03.446
And there's this one girl name that like, it popped into my brain a
27:03.946 --> 27:07.623
couple months ago and it will not leave me. And not like
27:07.719 --> 27:11.483
it pops up like you are experiencing, but just like the knowing of
27:11.515 --> 27:14.926
like, this is what my daughter's name will be is insane.
27:15.136 --> 27:18.671
And I'm like, is that— is because that soul is floating around me so close?
27:18.786 --> 27:21.317
You know, we also had a like very strange,
27:23.639 --> 27:26.972
um, I wouldn't call it a pregnancy scare, but it was like this very weird
27:27.472 --> 27:30.610
situation that happened where I went to get— I went to
27:31.315 --> 27:34.104
Carly, who I feel like maybe I've introduced you to. I don't know. She was—
27:34.440 --> 27:37.901
she's wonderful, and she does this incredible soul type of work
27:38.401 --> 27:41.940
and just like physical body sessions. I love like massage
27:42.036 --> 27:45.882
work, but then also like energy healing and readings, and she's phenomenal.
27:46.042 --> 27:49.311
I'll link her for sure because she's in this area. But I went to
27:49.327 --> 27:52.916
a session with her, which I've done a bunch of times. In the morning
27:53.109 --> 27:56.554
going into the session, I thought to myself like, wouldn't it be weird if Carly
27:57.054 --> 27:59.424
told me I was pregnant? Which, like, there's no reason to have that thought.
27:59.504 --> 28:03.399
There was no chance of that being a thing. Yeah. I go into the session
28:03.431 --> 28:06.798
and she tells me that baby soul is with me and it's a girl soul
28:07.198 --> 28:10.821
and that I'm— if I'm not pregnant, I'm probably getting pregnant.
28:11.847 --> 28:15.294
I go home and take a pregnancy test and it's positive. What?
28:15.454 --> 28:19.221
I was not pregnant. There was no chance of being pregnant. The tests
28:19.721 --> 28:23.004
were expired, which, like, don't give false positive. And I didn't realize they were expired
28:23.504 --> 28:25.376
until I sent it to my friend here who was like— because I was like,
28:25.393 --> 28:27.975
I've had these strips around since the twins were born. And she's like, yeah,
28:28.232 --> 28:32.069
okay, maybe order new ones. And I did right away, and then all the
28:32.569 --> 28:36.164
tests were negative. But like, why the universe did that— oh my
28:36.664 --> 28:39.455
God. And I'm like, well, one, I think it's so that we knew how we
28:39.955 --> 28:44.144
felt about it. But two, like, this, this little
28:44.272 --> 28:47.420
body is here. Like, it really feels that way, you know? Yeah.
28:47.869 --> 28:51.659
No, I totally— I 100% get that. I, I feel like that's
28:52.159 --> 28:55.767
why Not to say that's why I ended up having
28:56.267 --> 28:58.688
a third, because me and Greg were back and forth for a really long time
28:58.720 --> 29:01.850
too. We were like, I don't know. And there was one point where I actually
29:01.914 --> 29:05.043
tried after my son for like 6 months and we were not pregnant.
29:05.381 --> 29:09.007
And the last month I was like, all right, I am
29:09.056 --> 29:12.314
praying that this isn't positive. Like, what the hell are we doing? Why are
29:12.426 --> 29:15.668
we trying to get pregnant? I freaked out and it wasn't.
29:15.796 --> 29:19.407
And we were just like, okay. And we took a break before Yeah,
29:19.423 --> 29:23.369
before I got pregnant, before the losses. But I
29:23.433 --> 29:26.129
know I, I go back and forth on this because a part of me is
29:26.225 --> 29:30.653
like, I do think there are souls that are potential babies for every human
29:30.717 --> 29:33.669
if they want one. Um, interesting.
29:34.182 --> 29:37.358
But people don't. Like, some people don't. And like, I haven't read Spirit
29:37.390 --> 29:40.374
Babies the book in a really long time, but I know— yeah, me either.
29:40.759 --> 29:44.834
But I feel like in that book it kind of says they can become
29:45.334 --> 29:48.492
your niece, they can become your best kid, like something like that,
29:48.604 --> 29:52.277
where I'm like I do think that we have these souls around,
29:52.373 --> 29:55.772
but if logically and realistically it doesn't make sense for
29:56.272 --> 29:59.332
you, you know, that's okay, right? Right.
29:59.380 --> 30:02.042
No, I think it does say that, and that's true, right? And it is— it
30:02.075 --> 30:05.073
will stay close to you in a different way, which is beautiful, right? The book
30:05.573 --> 30:09.050
is amazing for so many lovely perspectives. Um, but yeah,
30:09.066 --> 30:12.562
just so fascinating. So I want to continue on the story
30:12.658 --> 30:15.657
of your journey because you said losses. Did you have multiple?
30:16.138 --> 30:19.568
So I had that 9-week loss, um, and then I went through
30:19.633 --> 30:22.903
a 6-month medical nightmare. Um, I was
30:22.951 --> 30:26.125
not cleared of like what they do—
30:26.625 --> 30:30.517
what they call it in the medical world is, um, remaining products of conception,
30:30.709 --> 30:34.364
which just means there's still pregnancy tissue in your uterus.
30:34.477 --> 30:37.122
Oh God. Um, did you just have a DNC?
30:37.667 --> 30:40.921
So I had to have 2 DNCs. Oh my God. It's like this whole
30:41.610 --> 30:44.736
thing. Oh my God. It's the— it's like the biggest nightmare.
30:45.281 --> 30:49.114
Um, nobody could figure out what was going on. Like, they— I
30:49.146 --> 30:52.887
did a DNC. Well, first I took the pills,
30:53.224 --> 30:56.773
which was a nightmare in and of itself, and I feel like a controversial
30:57.273 --> 31:00.610
topic also. But it kind of was just presented
31:01.110 --> 31:04.335
to me like, well, you're having a blighted ovum. But I was having no signs
31:04.835 --> 31:07.899
of miscarriage. I wasn't spotting, I wasn't bleeding. There was no signs of me passing
31:07.932 --> 31:11.367
this naturally, which now looking back, I wish
31:11.867 --> 31:14.755
I waited. I wish I just waited to see if I would have passed it.
31:14.819 --> 31:17.918
But I was in this place mentally where I was like, what the fuck?
31:18.047 --> 31:21.399
I'm not pregnant. Like, get I don't want to do this anymore. Like, get me
31:21.415 --> 31:24.782
out. Yeah, yeah, of course. Oh my God. Like, I don't want to be
31:25.282 --> 31:28.997
pregnant longer than I'm pregnant, longer than I have to be. Like, there's no baby.
31:29.190 --> 31:32.797
It was just very traumatizing. Yeah. And it was just kind of presented
31:33.297 --> 31:36.916
to me like, take these pills, you will basically go into labor,
31:37.189 --> 31:40.587
and within 24 hours this will be over. I'm like, okay,
31:40.732 --> 31:44.258
done, sign me up. And I did that. I ended up in
31:44.758 --> 31:48.875
the ER a week later. I was at a Kacey Musgraves concert,
31:48.923 --> 31:52.082
so I was bleeding. I was obsessed with Kacey
31:52.098 --> 31:55.452
Musgraves at the time. I love her. But that— the Deeper Well album,
31:55.468 --> 31:58.389
I don't know if you know it, but it was like a part of my
31:58.889 --> 32:02.787
soul at that time. I was just going through some shit, and that
32:03.287 --> 32:06.318
song— you have to listen to Deeper Well when we hang up. But okay,
32:06.398 --> 32:11.213
that song was like my everything. And I was like, I'm not having like
32:11.713 --> 32:14.824
this horrible, treacherous experience take away this concert that I have
32:15.324 --> 32:19.251
been like counting down to. Like, I'm going. Yeah. And it was like
32:19.751 --> 32:22.153
4 days after I had found out. So I took the pills like right away
32:22.201 --> 32:26.337
and I'm thinking like, I'll be able to go, it'll be healing, whatever. I'm still
32:26.369 --> 32:31.386
bleeding when I go and I couldn't walk because I was having contractions
32:31.578 --> 32:35.185
at the concert. Oh my God. I was literally walking through this like
32:35.685 --> 32:38.936
massive stadium and I had to stop like every 2 minutes
32:39.436 --> 32:43.409
because I would be having contractions. And then I will spare you the crazy
32:43.425 --> 32:46.919
details, but like I was going to the bathroom, there was like things happening that
32:46.951 --> 32:50.480
shouldn't still be happening like 4 days later. Um, and I
32:50.980 --> 32:54.366
like, I said to my husband, I'm like, I can't stay here. Like,
32:54.494 --> 32:57.979
it was I think 7 o'clock and the concert didn't start till like
32:58.479 --> 33:00.997
9:30, and we were like there for the openers and I wanted to buy like
33:01.013 --> 33:04.947
a sweatshirt, whatever. Oh man. So I got my sweatshirt, which is still like
33:05.447 --> 33:09.282
my favorite article of clothing, but we didn't get to see any of the concert
33:09.782 --> 33:13.104
and I just like hysterically sobbed the whole way home. It was crazy,
33:13.216 --> 33:16.538
man. Um, But I ended up in the ER like a day or
33:16.666 --> 33:20.900
two later, and they were like, you can take the pills again, or you
33:21.400 --> 33:24.283
can stay here until like 4 AM and get a DNC. And I had already
33:24.783 --> 33:28.549
been like rushed there from an appointment where— oh my God,
33:28.613 --> 33:31.403
this is so— I forgot about all of this. I'm like, I don't know how
33:31.580 --> 33:35.028
much you want to know, but they basically— I got an ultrasound just to see
33:35.528 --> 33:38.796
why I was still bleeding. They were like, it's Friday night
33:39.296 --> 33:42.133
at 3, you need to go to the ER right now. Um,
33:42.165 --> 33:45.986
because we see something in your uterus that could just be remaining
33:46.018 --> 33:49.469
products of conception, or it could be— I forget the term for it,
33:49.534 --> 33:53.451
but basically a tangle of blood vessels that is
33:53.547 --> 33:57.480
life-threatening, essentially. Perfect. If it, if it like
33:57.496 --> 34:00.980
explodes, it could just dissolve, but— or if it like pops open, whatever the hell,
34:01.574 --> 34:04.865
um, you bleed out, essentially. So they're like, go to the hospital
34:05.365 --> 34:08.766
right now. So I'm in like a corner of the ER for 6 hours getting
34:08.799 --> 34:12.716
like all these exams behind a curtain, like across
34:13.216 --> 34:16.479
the hall from man— some man like coughing. I like— it was bizarre. So that
34:16.655 --> 34:19.315
went on and on. They were like, you don't need the DNC, just take the
34:19.815 --> 34:22.537
pills again. I took the pills again. I ended up taking the pills 3 times.
34:22.601 --> 34:26.367
Nothing else happened. And then I ended up getting a DNC
34:27.152 --> 34:30.357
and it didn't work. I don't know, I just kept
34:30.857 --> 34:34.332
bleeding. It was bizarre. Um, that was like October. And then I
34:34.364 --> 34:37.505
ended up having to get a second DNC in January after
34:37.681 --> 34:41.335
months of trying to figure out what was in my uterus. Is it a polyp?
34:41.993 --> 34:45.336
They did. They diagnosed me like potentially with that life-threatening thing
34:45.368 --> 34:47.939
a second time. Then they were like, no, we think it's just a polyp.
34:48.003 --> 34:52.020
No, it's just remaining. It was psychotic. I was like— and
34:52.036 --> 34:55.426
meanwhile I'm like parenting a 3 and a 5-year-old, like, oh my
34:55.491 --> 34:58.624
God, dealing with some other stuff that
34:59.124 --> 35:02.159
was going on with them, like personal stuff. And I was just like, oh my
35:02.659 --> 35:05.694
gosh. I look back and I— let's talk about nature versus nurture. I'm like,
35:06.819 --> 35:10.079
one of my kids is dealing with like severe separation anxiety. And I'm like,
35:10.111 --> 35:13.515
is this because of me? Because I
35:13.547 --> 35:16.742
was at the doctor 8,000 times? And like, you know what I mean? You just
35:17.242 --> 35:20.917
like start to think. Totally. But anyways, I was cleared
35:21.029 --> 35:24.738
in February from a September miscarriage, and it was
35:25.238 --> 35:29.636
like the biggest nightmare of my life. And then I had 2 chemical pregnancies.
35:29.700 --> 35:34.068
So that was like, you find out you're pregnant on like a Monday and within
35:34.116 --> 35:37.137
a week I had already started bleeding. Right.
35:37.426 --> 35:40.623
So I still count those because I— Yeah, absolutely.
35:41.330 --> 35:44.688
And I just want to say that for people that have experienced chemical pregnancies,
35:44.720 --> 35:48.014
it's like I actually had people look at me and be like, if this
35:48.514 --> 35:50.649
was 30 years ago, you wouldn't have even known you were pregnant. Like, get over
35:51.149 --> 35:54.553
it. And I was like, um, no one has said that. Yes, but I
35:54.682 --> 35:58.023
was pregnant. Yeah, I took a positive pregnancy
35:58.056 --> 36:01.556
test. I felt pregnant. Um, and that I wasn't.
36:01.604 --> 36:05.103
So yes, I do count those as losses. So those are my other—
36:05.603 --> 36:09.003
God. Well, first of all, regardless of the situation,
36:09.372 --> 36:12.791
people can absolutely have whatever perspective
36:12.919 --> 36:17.285
they choose on different things. Yeah. And I think because
36:17.381 --> 36:20.494
of the trauma and horror that you went through and
36:20.527 --> 36:23.977
then continued to try, like, of course they felt
36:24.477 --> 36:27.829
like losses. Like, of course you're— you went through the fact that you continued
36:28.329 --> 36:32.078
to try after that experience in and of itself was probably a very difficult
36:32.578 --> 36:35.621
decision. And then to have 2 mind fucks of thinking like, okay, this is over.
36:35.829 --> 36:40.494
Oh no, it's not. Like, yeah, yeah, I can't even imagine. So I
36:40.994 --> 36:43.475
can't— the things that people say to other people is like, first of all,
36:44.085 --> 36:47.291
why do you think you have that, can have that opinion? And second
36:47.791 --> 36:50.417
of all, why are you sharing it? I think that it was supposed to be
36:50.917 --> 36:54.745
comforting. Like, it was so— it was just a blip in time. And I'm like,
36:54.825 --> 36:57.710
yeah, it was a blip where I thought this was fucking over and I thought
36:58.210 --> 37:01.290
I got to meet my baby and I thought we were starting over. And again,
37:02.128 --> 37:05.580
after going through all of that, you're in a wacky place.
37:05.854 --> 37:11.307
Yeah, right. As you're saying, it probably took
37:11.807 --> 37:14.954
a brave decision to try again. And looking back, I'm like, yeah,
37:15.099 --> 37:18.488
that was kind of fucking crazy. Yeah, because who knew what was going to
37:18.521 --> 37:22.330
happen to your body? And it's scary. Yeah,
37:22.410 --> 37:26.058
it was very unknown. Nobody could even tell me what happened, why I
37:26.107 --> 37:29.681
had all of this stuff going on. I have my own theories about what
37:30.181 --> 37:33.610
happened, but but nobody could really give me an answer. So to try again,
37:33.658 --> 37:35.710
a part of me is like, it was bravery, and a part of me is
37:35.726 --> 37:38.836
like, I was fucking psycho. Like, I just wanted my child, you know?
37:38.932 --> 37:42.700
Sure, sure. So with all of that, I'm sure
37:43.200 --> 37:46.291
you have a lot of things that helped you get through, but I'm curious if—
37:46.948 --> 37:50.796
because there are plenty of people going through that or similar or, you know,
37:50.812 --> 37:53.745
different versions of your story, um,
37:54.082 --> 37:57.249
and probably really wondering how to get
37:57.749 --> 38:00.904
through it and emotionally, mentally, physically, all the things. And do
38:00.936 --> 38:03.346
you have things that helped you or is it really just like you kept trying
38:03.443 --> 38:06.590
and now you have Brody? Like, is, is that it? You know,
38:06.911 --> 38:10.751
you know, I wish something
38:10.767 --> 38:14.526
I wish that I did, but I don't regret it because you can't tell someone
38:14.639 --> 38:17.864
in that position to just like take a beat. I wish I took
38:18.364 --> 38:21.818
a beat. Like, I wish instead of in April and May
38:21.883 --> 38:25.383
when I had those chemical pregnancies, because I got cleared in February.
38:25.977 --> 38:29.584
Like, I wish that I just took a freaking minute to
38:30.084 --> 38:33.368
take care of my mental health. Yeah. Um, and most importantly,
38:33.496 --> 38:36.944
really, my physical health. Like, I had just been through under anesthesia
38:37.444 --> 38:40.792
twice. Like, I've never been under anesthesia in my life. Like, that was one of
38:41.292 --> 38:44.223
my biggest fears. Like, there was so much trauma around it,
38:45.041 --> 38:48.536
and I didn't want to deal with that. I wanted my
38:48.664 --> 38:52.224
baby. So a part of me feels like I wish I took a minute
38:52.657 --> 38:56.315
Um, but what ended up happening is I did take a minute in June and
38:56.363 --> 39:00.069
July, which then I got pregnant in August. And that's why I
39:00.569 --> 39:04.032
got pregnant in August with a healthy pregnancy. Okay. Um, I finally was
39:04.064 --> 39:08.139
like, all right, enough. Like, I need to take
39:08.639 --> 39:12.262
care of myself. I think a lot of going through that, a lot
39:12.762 --> 39:15.888
of the mental struggles, struggles were also because I was not physically well.
39:16.096 --> 39:19.403
Like, I wasn't taking care of myself. I was was chronically dehydrated.
39:19.451 --> 39:23.144
I was mineral deficient. Like, I was not taking my electrolytes and
39:23.225 --> 39:26.516
all of the things. Um, that sounds so like cliché, like, you know, grab a
39:27.016 --> 39:30.788
Liquid IV, but that's not what I mean. Like, I did like a deep dive.
39:30.852 --> 39:34.321
Like, there is this woman that I, uh, worked with, her name
39:34.821 --> 39:37.918
is Vicki, and I'll give you her handle too. Okay.
39:38.335 --> 39:41.965
But she does HTMA testing, and that was like something that saved
39:42.465 --> 39:45.289
me. And I don't like to make like blanket statements about like anything medical,
39:45.401 --> 39:49.489
but But for me, after experiencing so much trauma and blood loss
39:49.989 --> 39:52.246
and all of this stuff, like, I was just— I was having joint pain,
39:52.294 --> 39:55.804
I was having wacky fatigue, I was having like insomnia.
39:55.916 --> 39:58.802
Like, I've never had any of those things before in my life.
39:59.491 --> 40:02.392
And I think part of it was the physical aspect of the miscarriage, but a
40:02.892 --> 40:06.207
lot of it was just the trauma and the emotional aspect. Natalie, the things that—
40:06.239 --> 40:09.733
the different types of stress, but the toll stress will take on your body
40:09.910 --> 40:14.479
is unbelievable. What is HTMA testing? So it's
40:14.979 --> 40:18.873
a hair test. So you cut like a piece of your hair and it says
40:18.969 --> 40:22.449
like, where's your potassium? Where's your calcium? All of this stuff.
40:22.578 --> 40:26.491
And I had what's called a calcium shell, which is fascinating
40:26.603 --> 40:29.666
because calcium is a hard mineral. And when
40:29.714 --> 40:33.355
you're experiencing trauma, your body pushes calcium.
40:33.419 --> 40:37.171
Like, I don't know the exact science of it, so whoever does HTMA can
40:37.252 --> 40:40.635
correct me, but pushes extra calcium out of
40:41.135 --> 40:45.078
your bones to harden you to trauma. It's like physical
40:45.928 --> 40:49.423
response to emotional trauma. But what happens is
40:49.520 --> 40:53.513
you become out of balance. Like, my calcium looked
40:53.545 --> 40:56.944
really, really high because my body was like pumping it out to try and protect
40:57.008 --> 41:00.568
me and harden me to this experience. Isn't that nuts?
41:00.825 --> 41:03.856
Wild. Um, is that why you were then having joint pain?
41:03.920 --> 41:07.704
Because you're actually— your joints were weaker? Yes. And then I also was—
41:08.057 --> 41:11.669
my potassium was like non-existent,
41:11.910 --> 41:15.268
and I was having like crazy gut issues. And like, I think the joint
41:15.768 --> 41:19.333
pain is also attached to that too. And literally like all I
41:19.446 --> 41:22.402
had to do was see it, and then she gave me this like whole plan.
41:22.981 --> 41:25.680
And a lot of it was just taking care of yourself. Like, you gotta eat
41:25.793 --> 41:29.087
X amount of protein a day, you can't be not drinking water half the day,
41:29.167 --> 41:32.204
like you can't blah blah blah. All the stuff you already know, but when you're
41:32.220 --> 41:35.675
in this trauma, you're like not paying attention. Yeah, but some of
41:36.175 --> 41:39.558
it was is so important because what I did was I got
41:39.606 --> 41:43.697
a specific electrolyte that had like 4 times the amount of potassium than a normal
41:44.197 --> 41:46.521
one. When I tell you my joint pain and my insomnia was gone in a
41:47.021 --> 41:50.066
week. Wow. But I would have never known. How the hell do you know your
41:50.566 --> 41:54.222
potassium is low? I don't know. Right, right. So that's something I did to take
41:54.722 --> 41:58.168
care of myself. And what ends up happening is when you feel better physically,
41:58.297 --> 42:02.291
you feel better mentally. So it was like I became I
42:02.323 --> 42:05.994
also was like, I can't stress walks enough.
42:06.250 --> 42:09.632
And again, I know it's like, it sounds so stupid, but like last
42:09.841 --> 42:13.543
June and July and the beginning of August, like whenever me and my husband got
42:14.043 --> 42:16.332
like a moment alone, we weren't doing a date night, we weren't doing— we were
42:16.832 --> 42:20.259
going for walks together. We were like future planning and like
42:20.275 --> 42:23.641
talking about the baby and like, well, if we don't get pregnant, what do we
42:24.141 --> 42:27.600
want to do with our house? You know, we were just like trying to plan
42:27.649 --> 42:30.710
and be happy about the things that were working, you know what I
42:31.210 --> 42:34.766
mean? Yeah. And just getting fresh air. Like, it sounds dumb, but that's like
42:35.266 --> 42:37.956
what got me through. And I don't really— I don't think any of it sounds
42:38.068 --> 42:41.498
dumb. And the part that's sad and the reason why we think it
42:41.998 --> 42:46.291
sounds dumb is because right now our society is like pumping us in this information
42:46.324 --> 42:49.225
where like to fix it you have to do these supplements, or you need this
42:49.289 --> 42:51.694
quick fix, or you have to do this type of weightlifting, or you have to
42:52.399 --> 42:55.926
whatever the thing. And it's like really the solutions are very simple
42:55.942 --> 42:59.372
and take us back to like 1992. Yeah, we don't
42:59.452 --> 43:03.315
actually need all of this like crazy shit that someone's gonna sell to
43:03.815 --> 43:06.938
us and make money off of. So it's just a really
43:06.986 --> 43:10.625
healthy reminder that like the simplicity is where
43:10.673 --> 43:14.680
all of the healing lies. Yeah. Um, all of my favorite memories from
43:14.696 --> 43:17.966
last summer right before I got pregnant are going for walks with my husband.
43:18.207 --> 43:21.429
Like we just set the time and we went for walks and we were just,
43:21.894 --> 43:24.394
we wanna do this addition on our house. We wanna do this, we wanna do
43:24.894 --> 43:28.161
that. And it's just like we just made time to like daydream about our future.
43:28.788 --> 43:32.869
And get outside and breathe air and get the hell like away from screens
43:32.901 --> 43:36.259
and all of that. And I think that's what helped me heal. And where were
43:36.759 --> 43:40.147
your children during these walks? Like, my in-laws live 5 minutes away.
43:40.677 --> 43:44.501
Oh, nice. Okay, okay. So they were— so like, we went away
43:44.630 --> 43:47.618
for a week and it was like, usually we'll just be in the pool with
43:48.118 --> 43:51.426
our kids the whole time, but we were like, every single day while they're eating
43:51.522 --> 43:55.250
dinner, they have other adult eyeballs on them, we're going for
43:55.750 --> 44:00.137
Nice. Even if it was like a weekday on Wednesday
44:00.637 --> 44:03.951
at 11 and my mother-in-law was like, I have a Pilates class, but I can
44:04.451 --> 44:07.381
stop by for an hour. Like, I was like, take your lunch break, we're going
44:07.413 --> 44:10.987
for a walk. Like, we just tried to find— fit it in even
44:11.019 --> 44:14.689
though we could be easily doing other things, you know? Got it.
44:14.850 --> 44:18.199
Okay. So like shift in the priorities and that really made a big difference.
44:18.472 --> 44:22.142
And how was the experience for your husband during all of this?
44:22.222 --> 44:25.863
Because I like, A, was he Were there things that
44:26.363 --> 44:29.122
he was doing that really, really helped you? Was he going through it himself and
44:29.622 --> 44:32.493
like having a hard time communicating that? Because I know it's difficult on the partner
44:32.993 --> 44:36.571
too. But of course, with not discounting that it is definitely
44:36.828 --> 44:40.183
more difficult on the mother and the woman and the body that goes through
44:40.199 --> 44:44.149
all of this. And I think it's difficult on partners and they don't necessarily
44:44.649 --> 44:47.600
know how to support. And then we don't know how to support them because we
44:48.100 --> 44:50.859
have our own experience. So just curious, like how that went for you guys.
44:52.576 --> 44:56.507
He was a baby too, you know? And oh my gosh, I'll never
44:57.007 --> 44:59.797
forget. And I hope he like is okay with me saying this, but the day
45:00.297 --> 45:04.113
we found out, he was just so upset. I cry thinking about it every time.
45:04.514 --> 45:08.140
Um, he was just like, that was supposed to be my baby.
45:08.621 --> 45:11.076
Oh man, it was so sad.
45:11.927 --> 45:15.296
Now part of that was because we had our first
45:15.796 --> 45:18.778
in COVID and he had just started a new job and he literally had one
45:18.971 --> 45:21.647
day before he had to go back to work. Oh God.
45:22.400 --> 45:25.877
And then the second time, he had just went back to his old job,
45:25.925 --> 45:29.402
so he didn't have any leave accrued. He had no vacation accrued, and he had
45:29.707 --> 45:33.184
2 weeks, which felt like incredible. But this was the
45:33.216 --> 45:36.180
first time he has been back. Like, he is still at the same job he
45:36.680 --> 45:40.955
was in when my second son was born, um, and he like has multiple,
45:41.003 --> 45:44.592
multiple weeks of leave. And like, he was so excited, like, this is the
45:45.092 --> 45:48.511
first time I'm gonna be there for And it just like— I
45:48.559 --> 45:52.027
feel like he felt like his world was crashing down, and it was the saddest
45:52.527 --> 45:55.717
fucking thing. Um, but at the same time,
45:57.251 --> 46:01.512
it felt like I wasn't alone, you know? Because there have been times,
46:01.851 --> 46:05.410
you know, in our relationship or any relationship with another human where
46:05.910 --> 46:09.129
if you're going through something and it feels like they're not with you,
46:09.595 --> 46:13.066
it's almost worse. Yeah, yeah. Like, not that I wanted him
46:13.566 --> 46:16.278
to be as upset as me, but it was like it felt really good to
46:16.778 --> 46:20.975
know like, oh, I'm not just experiencing this literal hell on earth alone,
46:21.007 --> 46:23.988
right? Right. And I will say, I mean, he,
46:24.309 --> 46:28.365
he snapped back in kind of quick because he had to support me, who was
46:28.397 --> 46:31.490
a freaking disaster physically and mentally.
46:32.164 --> 46:35.450
But he was really so
46:35.950 --> 46:38.976
supportive. The thing that he is really good at, and then he knows that I
46:39.476 --> 46:42.856
feel this way, is like he just shows the fuck up. Like it doesn't matter
46:43.289 --> 46:45.966
if like I pop my tire on the side of the road because I'm a
46:46.466 --> 46:50.123
dumbass getting herbs, or like, I am going through loss.
46:50.187 --> 46:53.880
Like, I'll never forget, I had to go to my like 10th ultrasound to
46:54.380 --> 46:57.107
try to figure out what was going on after that loss. And I was like,
46:57.172 --> 47:00.479
I know you've taken off like so much work for my appointments, like, don't worry
47:00.979 --> 47:03.610
about it, I'm just gonna go to this one, it's the same shit, different day
47:03.851 --> 47:06.709
kind of a thing. And he was like, I'm not fucking missing that, no.
47:06.806 --> 47:09.889
Yeah. And like, that's the way that he showed up for me. Like,
47:09.937 --> 47:13.501
he was at— obviously, but he was at both of my DNCs just sitting in
47:14.001 --> 47:17.451
the pre-op room with me, like And just being there
47:17.515 --> 47:21.609
like a normal person. He's not overly affectionate.
47:21.657 --> 47:24.884
He's not overly— he's not spiritual, but he just
47:25.384 --> 47:28.030
shows up. And that's just what I needed. Wow.
47:28.737 --> 47:32.557
That's beautiful and amazing. Is he having
47:32.670 --> 47:37.325
the same sort of healing experience
47:37.825 --> 47:41.162
that you're— okay. Oh my gosh. Every day. Every day he picks
47:41.662 --> 47:45.045
him up and he's like, What? Why would someone ever not
47:45.093 --> 47:47.532
want a baby like that? Because,
47:48.414 --> 47:51.094
you know, we went back and forth for a while about having a third,
47:51.126 --> 47:55.121
and every day he's like, we made the best decision of our lives. I love
47:55.621 --> 47:59.516
him so much. He's just such a healing little chunk. Oh, that's amazing.
47:59.853 --> 48:03.158
Yeah. I'm very glad— not glad that you went through
48:03.658 --> 48:07.057
any of that, but glad that you have this beautiful baby and that he is
48:07.554 --> 48:11.389
this bright light on such a dark journey. And thank you for sharing.
48:11.501 --> 48:14.872
That is I'm sure very hard and very helpful for people
48:15.372 --> 48:18.998
to hear. So I would be remiss if I don't take a very hard pivot
48:19.046 --> 48:22.417
now and ask you some astrological
48:22.481 --> 48:25.788
questions because you are such an expert. And I feel like—
48:26.173 --> 48:29.400
so I'm curious in general, like, are you— because
48:29.900 --> 48:33.397
I know you do readings especially for families and do their full charts and
48:33.478 --> 48:37.250
how they all overlap, which I think is fascinating and probably a very nuanced,
48:37.266 --> 48:40.699
difficult process. But because you do do
48:41.199 --> 48:44.481
that from a parenting perspective, are you doing that with your family
48:44.981 --> 48:48.136
day to day? Are there parts of astrology that can make parenting easier,
48:48.168 --> 48:52.384
or is there no real way to make parenting easier? Where does the practicality
48:52.576 --> 48:55.926
land for you in this expertise that you have? Yeah,
48:56.022 --> 48:59.308
I love this question because I always want to make it very clear.
48:59.693 --> 49:02.546
When you are coming to me for a reading, I am giving you what I
49:02.674 --> 49:05.960
think is really fucking valuable information. And yes, I literally use
49:06.460 --> 49:08.280
it every single day. Not even a joke.
49:09.655 --> 49:12.518
And there's some things we can't solve with astrology.
49:14.104 --> 49:17.546
I can't figure out my deepest problems from
49:17.675 --> 49:22.403
my chart, but I can have validation
49:22.677 --> 49:26.129
for the way that I am. I can make
49:26.629 --> 49:30.009
sense of the way my son is acting or why my daughter
49:30.476 --> 49:33.792
processes this way. It absolutely is something I use every day,
49:34.356 --> 49:38.312
and it's to the point where I don't even realize I'm using it. But every
49:38.344 --> 49:42.400
kid is different, like you're saying with twins. And it's so fascinating
49:42.416 --> 49:45.429
to me because I am a twin, you know, we've talked about this.
49:46.840 --> 49:49.613
But for me, I look at their Mars signs,
49:49.869 --> 49:53.171
and Mars is like— the way I learned it was like if you're pushed up
49:53.716 --> 49:57.675
against a wall in a bar fight, your Mars is how you respond.
49:58.060 --> 50:00.913
It's like your action and how you respond to things.
50:01.490 --> 50:04.279
And even just knowing that about my kids,
50:05.097 --> 50:08.704
is so helpful because I see the way they respond to
50:09.204 --> 50:12.904
different scenarios. And it's not even like— I'm not even necessarily
50:13.404 --> 50:16.976
saying like, oh, then I respond differently because I know he's a Pisces Mars
50:17.476 --> 50:20.583
and she's a Taurus Mars or whatever. It's more like me being like,
50:21.465 --> 50:24.911
he's highly sensitive, this is how he
50:25.411 --> 50:29.015
responds, that's okay. Like, it's almost more helpful for me,
50:29.865 --> 50:33.247
or she sees things as very black and white.
50:33.408 --> 50:37.271
That's how she sees it. That's okay. It's almost like it helps me
50:37.319 --> 50:40.718
look at them as whole people, not like how I think they should be or
50:40.766 --> 50:43.956
how they should be responding. You know what I mean? That's amazing.
50:44.549 --> 50:47.947
Yeah. Okay, so if there are
50:48.156 --> 50:51.570
parts of the chart that would be the most helpful, obviously Mars is
50:51.667 --> 50:55.530
the one you're referencing, but I know you also have a post that's like how
50:55.610 --> 50:59.361
to get your kids to listen better based on their Sun sign or different
50:59.861 --> 51:03.129
things. So what are the ones that you're you're specifically using in day-to-day?
51:03.209 --> 51:06.384
Obviously you just referenced Mars, but how are you using them?
51:06.432 --> 51:09.944
And then look, what are the parts that would be helpful for people
51:10.444 --> 51:12.975
who don't really know all the things that you know about this?
51:13.552 --> 51:17.337
Yes. So immediately if you're learning your chart or your
51:17.837 --> 51:21.233
kid's chart, you need to know your Moon sign. It's like Mars,
51:21.410 --> 51:24.681
I like, I'm an astrologer, I'm into this shit, you don't need to know Mars.
51:25.515 --> 51:27.808
Get to know your kid's Moon sign.
51:29.027 --> 51:32.799
It is your inner world, it's your emotions. And a lot of astrologers say it's
51:33.761 --> 51:37.404
even more relevant than their Sun sign, especially when they're little kids,
51:37.468 --> 51:40.758
because kids don't have this filter.
51:41.705 --> 51:45.332
Everything is their heart on their sleeve, you know what I mean? So they're
51:45.476 --> 51:48.702
coming from a place of their Moon sign, whereas when you get older, your Moon
51:49.202 --> 51:51.687
sign might be a little bit more internal. It might be like the side of
51:51.735 --> 51:55.282
yourself your best friends and your partner sees. Not everyone gets
51:55.782 --> 51:59.198
to view you in your emotions and your intuition and kind of
51:59.698 --> 52:03.360
who you are behind closed doors. But kids don't have that. They're just, this is
52:03.392 --> 52:06.814
who I am, this is how I feel. There's no being
52:06.927 --> 52:10.719
polite filter vibe going on. So you're good for
52:11.219 --> 52:14.768
sure. And then Mercury is my favorite
52:14.816 --> 52:18.190
secret weapon as a parent because it's your mind.
52:18.640 --> 52:22.111
Mercury is how you communicate. I like to say it's like, you know how
52:22.611 --> 52:25.964
we say rose-colored glasses? I like to say Your Mercury
52:26.464 --> 52:29.890
is like the type of glasses you're wearing to see the world.
52:30.355 --> 52:34.537
Oh, I love that analogy. That's fascinating. It's like your mind works—
52:35.037 --> 52:37.486
like if you have an Earth Mercury, you might be a little more stubborn,
52:37.566 --> 52:41.605
you might be slow to change, you might be super
52:41.733 --> 52:45.419
loyal. Whereas if you have an Air Mercury, you might want to change
52:45.919 --> 52:47.823
your mind all the time, and you're more go with the flow, and you're a
52:48.323 --> 52:51.605
little flighty. It's kind of like that. Oh, wow. Okay,
52:52.086 --> 52:55.227
good, because that brings me to my next question on this, which was going to
52:55.291 --> 52:57.256
be, to your Moon and your Mercury.
52:59.013 --> 53:02.099
Of course, we all— not we all, but I assume that we all have a
53:03.015 --> 53:06.953
high-level understanding of astrology from our Sun signs. And it's
53:07.453 --> 53:10.044
like you have these few characteristics. And of course, I know Pisces because I'm a
53:10.109 --> 53:14.417
Pisces, and it's like you're sensitive and you're dreamy and you're kind
53:14.917 --> 53:17.791
of not in this world and whimsical and all of that, right? Okay, I know
53:17.807 --> 53:21.743
Pisces. And then I know a few Aries because I
53:22.243 --> 53:23.831
know a lot of them and my kids are Aries, but my dad and my
53:23.880 --> 53:25.315
brother were too. And you're headstrong and you're fiery and you're this and you're that,
53:27.193 --> 53:31.320
But you don't— I don't know all 12 to that depth. And so if
53:31.673 --> 53:35.109
you are— and my question is, so one, like, is it just you
53:35.703 --> 53:38.385
look up the sign and you look up the few characteristics and then you tie
53:38.433 --> 53:42.126
that back to what you're saying? Or does it change based
53:42.626 --> 53:45.514
on the placement? So like, I'm an Aries Moon, but my kids are an Aries
53:46.014 --> 53:49.881
Sun. So Aries is Aries, but is Aries showing up differently
53:49.913 --> 53:52.129
as a Moon as it is as a Sun? You know what I mean?
53:52.643 --> 53:57.231
Yes, it is. So then for— yeah, like where do people— okay.
53:58.258 --> 54:01.836
What you want to do— listen, I try to make it like as easy
54:01.868 --> 54:05.735
as physically possible. Yeah, because it's complicated. It's complicated.
54:05.799 --> 54:09.249
And how many people are really gonna like listen to this podcast, hang up,
54:09.313 --> 54:12.666
and then be like, let me spend 5 hours dissecting?
54:12.859 --> 54:16.950
Right. You don't have that type of time. So the easiest
54:17.450 --> 54:20.576
way to know it is like, okay, so Moon is like emotions and inner worlds,
54:20.785 --> 54:24.376
and and how you connect to your intuition, and then you learn
54:24.392 --> 54:28.063
the signs. So say your Moon is in Pisces,
54:28.159 --> 54:31.461
like you were just talking about Pisces. I like to bring it—
54:31.961 --> 54:34.395
and again, this is like, am I complicating it or am I simplifying it?
54:34.491 --> 54:38.386
I don't know, but I really like to look at element. So even before
54:38.579 --> 54:42.474
Pisces, I know that Pisces is a water sign. So you
54:42.522 --> 54:45.680
could just say, I have a water Moon. You don't even have to say— if
54:45.712 --> 54:48.854
you have a Pisces, a Scorpio, or a Cancer Moon,
54:48.918 --> 54:52.188
you have a water Moon. So you know that you're highly sensitive,
54:52.364 --> 54:56.019
you know you're you're very intuitive, you know, you're maybe more like internal,
54:56.532 --> 55:00.027
and you're gonna take things personally more so than maybe a fire moon.
55:00.941 --> 55:04.451
Okay, I like to— you kind of have to know both.
55:04.708 --> 55:08.154
Um, but if you know your moon sign, like say you, you learn
55:08.654 --> 55:12.402
you're an Aries moon, obviously you can just Google Aries moon characteristics.
55:12.739 --> 55:16.121
True, true. To make it as easy as possible, I think
55:16.169 --> 55:19.407
the, the most important thing is just like learning what
55:19.455 --> 55:22.373
your placements are, because then you can research from that point of view.
55:23.142 --> 55:26.416
Because I think even just like knowing chart is can feel intimidating.
55:26.513 --> 55:29.646
Like, how do I pull it? How do I get that? How do I read
55:30.146 --> 55:33.502
it? You know what I mean? Totally. So then for these offerings that
55:34.002 --> 55:38.033
you have, like, let's say someone comes to you and just wants their kids'
55:38.804 --> 55:42.500
charts read, because then are you giving them like practicality of you're like,
55:42.580 --> 55:46.003
oh, great, they're a Pisces Mercury, and that
55:46.051 --> 55:49.361
means they see the world this way because their mind functions
55:49.861 --> 55:53.136
this way, so this is maybe the the way you can think about it when
55:53.201 --> 55:55.498
they're responding to XYZ. Yes.
55:55.916 --> 55:59.820
Okay, so say your kid has a Pisces Mercury and then your
56:00.415 --> 56:04.026
older kid has an Aries Mercury. I'm like, okay, so when
56:04.139 --> 56:07.413
you are dealing with your Aries Mercury child, you're probably
56:07.509 --> 56:11.487
going to have more impulsive dialect
56:11.987 --> 56:16.082
where they're just saying exactly how they feel and they're bold
56:16.582 --> 56:19.954
and they're assertive and they're brave. And maybe they don't don't give a shit how
56:20.018 --> 56:23.865
you feel about what they're saying in a good way, in a confident
56:24.365 --> 56:28.257
way. Whereas if you're dealing with a Pisces Mercury kid,
56:28.354 --> 56:32.137
you might have to understand that they're highly sensitive, they might
56:32.637 --> 56:35.936
be more internal, you might have to ask them questions in a different way.
56:37.010 --> 56:41.210
Asking an Aries Moon child or Aries Mercury child,
56:42.059 --> 56:44.416
what do you want to do today? Maybe like, hey, what do you want to
56:44.916 --> 56:46.003
do today? Do you want to play? Do you want to go here? Do you
56:46.503 --> 56:48.648
want to go there? And you're giving them options and they get to play with
56:49.148 --> 56:51.726
that. If you're giving a Pisces Mercury out some options, I might be like,
56:52.214 --> 56:55.418
so what were you thinking you wanna do today? Like, how are you feeling?
56:56.852 --> 57:00.161
Like, feelings less than like, woo, what kind of fun, what kind of
57:00.661 --> 57:04.180
thing are we gonna do today? Like, there's just different ways of thinking, you know?
57:04.777 --> 57:07.967
So are you actively like responding differently to each
57:08.065 --> 57:09.964
of your children with this filter in mind?
57:12.024 --> 57:15.471
Let's not say all the time because sometimes I'm just acting like a human.
57:15.890 --> 57:19.746
Um, but I, it does. The Moon sign again.
57:19.810 --> 57:23.377
So one of my— so I'm just speaking about my older kids
57:23.877 --> 57:27.940
because my baby's a freaking baby, he can't talk. But one of my kids
57:28.069 --> 57:31.363
is a Virgo Moon and one is a Libra
57:31.863 --> 57:35.396
Moon. One is Earth, and Virgo is very
57:35.896 --> 57:39.461
meticulous. They're very particular, they're very detail-oriented,
57:39.573 --> 57:43.301
and you're attaching that to emotions. So we
57:43.333 --> 57:46.930
want things that makes sense. And sometimes
57:46.962 --> 57:50.640
we don't want to talk emotions that much, we want to talk about logic.
57:50.961 --> 57:54.493
Whereas my Libra Moon kid may see things like
57:54.993 --> 57:59.359
Libra is more all about balance and making sure things feel good. So I
57:59.487 --> 58:02.860
might be explaining something different to
58:02.876 --> 58:06.232
her versus him. Yes, from the filter of their Moon. I really do
58:06.732 --> 58:10.118
do that. I know it sounds crazy, but no, I think it sounds amazing
58:10.618 --> 58:14.245
because I'm thinking too, in like, because my kids are so young and they're still
58:14.325 --> 58:17.850
gone going through developmental leaps often, right? And so we're
58:17.866 --> 58:21.327
in 3s right now, which I love. I have loved 3.
58:21.792 --> 58:25.317
It's just so incredible. And of course, the like very small tidbits that
58:25.817 --> 58:29.018
are challenging are very challenging. And I'm just wondering if,
58:29.403 --> 58:33.088
you know, I went through and I looked at this where sometimes you
58:33.588 --> 58:35.973
just want to explain it as like, oh well, it's 3, so that's normal,
58:35.989 --> 58:39.786
versus like, it is normal and it's 3, and maybe there are
58:39.882 --> 58:43.344
extra parts of it that are filtering in because they have this part of
58:43.844 --> 58:47.096
their chart, and so that's extra hard for them for this area of life,
58:47.112 --> 58:50.398
and maybe we can make it a little less difficult, you know?
58:51.585 --> 58:53.910
I think it makes a lot of sense. Of course, there's some people that are
58:54.410 --> 58:57.485
not gonna— maybe they buy into it but find it's like, not gonna be useful
58:57.985 --> 59:01.638
because it's complicated and additive. But I'm sure once you like,
59:02.006 --> 59:05.550
really have it ingrained, it's not super difficult. Well, this is like,
59:05.614 --> 59:09.269
why I started doing this work is because of the difficult year I
59:09.382 --> 59:12.043
had with my firstborn, with my daughter. Um,
59:12.187 --> 59:15.233
I'm a Cancer Moon, which is— and it's in the 12th house,
59:15.249 --> 59:18.760
which is a whole nother layer, but it's water, water, water, water everywhere. Like,
59:18.776 --> 59:22.110
I'm drowning. I'm drowning.
59:22.222 --> 59:25.236
I'm literally drowning. Um, I'm crying.
59:25.348 --> 59:29.436
I'm go with the flow. Listen, I love a routine like
59:29.901 --> 59:33.299
enough, but like I will wake up and just do whatever.
59:33.507 --> 59:37.258
And like, that's how I was parenting her. She's a Virgo Moon.
59:37.435 --> 59:40.304
Like, a Virgo Moon doesn't want to wake up and go with the flow.
59:40.577 --> 59:42.885
They want to wake up, they want to have their breakfast, they want to know
59:43.385 --> 59:45.753
what the fuck's going on today and they want to get, get along with it.
59:46.249 --> 59:49.934
And that is the minute— so when I say I like
59:50.434 --> 59:52.722
came out of it, like going way back to the beginning of our conversation,
59:52.738 --> 59:54.516
I was like, after a year I kind of came out of it and was
59:55.016 --> 59:58.809
like, whoa. A part of that realization of my parenting
59:58.922 --> 01:00:03.199
journey was being like, she is a Virgo Moon, what the hell are you doing?
01:00:03.247 --> 01:00:06.451
Like, of course she needs a feeding schedule, of course she needs a
01:00:06.951 --> 01:00:10.440
nap schedule. And to some people that may, may also—
01:00:10.940 --> 01:00:13.805
like Virgo Moon moms are probably like, yeah, you dumbass, like that's what a baby
01:00:13.837 --> 01:00:17.496
needs. That's just not how I was parenting. I was parenting the
01:00:17.996 --> 01:00:21.286
way I function in the world, right? I was going
01:00:21.786 --> 01:00:25.204
with my own intuition and like, all right, well, maybe this is a good time
01:00:25.220 --> 01:00:28.994
for this, whatever. But she didn't work like that. Like, she needed that
01:00:29.494 --> 01:00:32.848
structure, and she still does need that structure. And that's why I now help
01:00:33.348 --> 01:00:36.541
parents with this, because our mother-daughter relationship
01:00:37.041 --> 01:00:40.090
became so much easier when I started parenting her from the lens of how I
01:00:40.315 --> 01:00:43.732
felt she needed to be parented, not from my own lens,
01:00:43.844 --> 01:00:47.529
you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. And I think astrology or not, that's a
01:00:48.250 --> 01:00:51.775
very important parenting lesson. Like, yes, of course you're gonna parent
01:00:52.275 --> 01:00:55.636
through your own filter of the way that you are, but you have 2 very—
01:00:55.700 --> 01:00:59.001
or multiple, I have 2, so pull that out. 1, 2,
01:00:59.129 --> 01:01:02.317
10 individual beings that you're parenting that need different
01:01:02.333 --> 01:01:05.842
versions of you, different versions of parenting, different versions of
01:01:05.938 --> 01:01:09.399
life. And I think in and of itself, that's an important lesson to
01:01:09.899 --> 01:01:12.686
be learned whichever tool you wanna in that way.
01:01:13.263 --> 01:01:16.071
So it sounds like, which was one of my questions to you that we talked
01:01:16.571 --> 01:01:20.467
about, is that you're parenting as a parent, but astrology
01:01:20.531 --> 01:01:24.141
is like an added tool to your toolbox that helps
01:01:24.641 --> 01:01:28.536
you and is— or just gave you very important
01:01:28.553 --> 01:01:32.339
perspective shifts. Yeah. And when I say I use
01:01:32.839 --> 01:01:35.708
it often, I know my kids' Sun signs, I know their Moon signs, I know
01:01:35.724 --> 01:01:38.646
their rising signs, I know their Mars signs. But, you know,
01:01:39.707 --> 01:01:43.563
I'm not— I don't have their whole charts memorized. Like, I am very realistic
01:01:44.063 --> 01:01:46.937
with this shit. Like, I barely have a brain cell to rub together.
01:01:47.034 --> 01:01:50.649
Like, I'm proud of myself for showing up here, you know. I'm 3 months
01:01:51.149 --> 01:01:54.248
postpartum, you know. I'm just— I can't believe that you've shown up here.
01:01:54.506 --> 01:01:58.105
I feel like we're surviving. So I don't want people to think
01:01:58.605 --> 01:02:02.861
I'm like consulting her chart on my fridge, it's printed out, I have every aspect,
01:02:02.877 --> 01:02:06.707
I have every transit. Like, no, I just— I love this shit, so I happen
01:02:07.207 --> 01:02:09.608
to know their charts. And I do this shit for work, so I happen to
01:02:10.108 --> 01:02:13.694
know their charts. But it doesn't have to be that complicated.
01:02:13.758 --> 01:02:16.883
You could just learn your kid's Moon sign and be like, okay,
01:02:17.027 --> 01:02:20.761
I know that they're a Fire Moon and I'm a Water Moon, and that
01:02:20.809 --> 01:02:24.126
means sometimes I might take shit that they say personally, and it's just not that
01:02:24.238 --> 01:02:27.732
deep. Like, it's something like as simple as that. That's why I
01:02:27.924 --> 01:02:32.250
like to do the reading, things. Um, and I love it too for parents
01:02:32.750 --> 01:02:36.176
because especially new parents, but really any parents,
01:02:36.192 --> 01:02:39.749
it's like you enter this brand new phase
01:02:39.797 --> 01:02:43.081
of life and you're seeing each other differently also.
01:02:43.851 --> 01:02:47.183
Yeah. And I think sometimes it kind of grounds you
01:02:47.247 --> 01:02:50.948
back into like, this is why you are the way that you are,
01:02:51.093 --> 01:02:54.249
this is maybe why you're parenting a certain way, this is why I am the
01:02:54.297 --> 01:02:57.213
way that I am. And it also brings you together because I'll be like,
01:02:57.261 --> 01:03:01.082
hey, say the dad and both
01:03:01.114 --> 01:03:04.470
of the kids have Earth Moons and the mom has a Water
01:03:04.970 --> 01:03:08.404
Moon. So the 2 kids and the dad may be a little
01:03:08.420 --> 01:03:12.129
bit more just black or white, logical, like, it's not that
01:03:12.629 --> 01:03:14.891
deep, Mom. And then she's just always out there crying and they're all like,
01:03:14.907 --> 01:03:19.339
okay, are you good? It's almost like this validation
01:03:19.839 --> 01:03:23.433
of like, this is just who I am and that's okay. And we
01:03:23.578 --> 01:03:27.025
all move and function differently. And And it's actually been really
01:03:27.608 --> 01:03:31.317
cool to see couples like see each other again
01:03:31.366 --> 01:03:34.662
in a different light, you know what I mean? That's fascinating
01:03:35.162 --> 01:03:38.599
because that actually perfectly builds to what was going to be my next question,
01:03:38.663 --> 01:03:42.019
which is— and it changed the way I'm thinking
01:03:42.052 --> 01:03:45.715
about it, but I was going to say, if someone's going to start
01:03:45.763 --> 01:03:48.958
with you, is it— do you recommend like start and get a reading,
01:03:48.990 --> 01:03:52.427
just a personal reading so you understand yourself best, or is it just because
01:03:52.476 --> 01:03:55.863
you're if they really want parenting perspective,
01:03:55.927 --> 01:03:58.673
is it like just come and get your kids' charts read? But it almost sounds
01:03:59.173 --> 01:04:02.285
like you're saying come and get the whole family read. I'm just wondering if that
01:04:02.785 --> 01:04:05.978
feels like information overload, and then people are like, I don't know how to put
01:04:06.478 --> 01:04:10.603
this in practice. So what is your recommendation on like where to start depending
01:04:10.715 --> 01:04:14.633
on, you know, what's most useful? I of course would
01:04:15.133 --> 01:04:18.197
love to read a whole family, but I do agree with you where it's like,
01:04:18.887 --> 01:04:22.031
if you literally just know your birthday means you're a Leo and that
01:04:22.531 --> 01:04:25.575
is as far as you've ever gone into astrology, maybe just start with you.
01:04:26.200 --> 01:04:29.649
And then you— because that's understanding
01:04:30.149 --> 01:04:33.514
yourself is such a gift. And as a mother too, like, A, it's a gift
01:04:34.014 --> 01:04:37.363
to yourself. It's a gift of validation. It's a gift of knowing your
01:04:37.507 --> 01:04:41.132
gifts. It's also just like my favorite thing is just reflecting to
01:04:41.632 --> 01:04:45.045
moms like, hey, you're really fucking cool and unique and special, and just
01:04:45.545 --> 01:04:49.295
reminding you that this is where all of that comes from. And it's, it's like
01:04:49.795 --> 01:04:52.791
this healing experience, even if it's just for you. Um,
01:04:52.807 --> 01:04:56.255
yeah. And then maybe it's just something where you say, all right, now I'm really,
01:04:56.335 --> 01:04:59.141
really— usually what happens is a mom will come do it for themselves and then
01:04:59.641 --> 01:05:01.899
be like, all right, now I'm dying to know about like my partner or my
01:05:02.399 --> 01:05:06.052
kid. Right, right. I feel like that's a good way to start. If you know
01:05:06.068 --> 01:05:09.436
your kid's Sun, Moon, and Rising but you don't really know what it means,
01:05:09.452 --> 01:05:12.274
you don't know what the planets represent, then do a family reading.
01:05:12.851 --> 01:05:16.475
Okay. But it can be overwhelming. Like sometimes I feel like we hit— like if
01:05:16.975 --> 01:05:20.261
I have a 3-kid family and we're talking the parents, the kids, you hang up
01:05:20.761 --> 01:05:24.499
and it's like, like, I'm tired. So you're probably tired too.
01:05:24.965 --> 01:05:28.047
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm thinking. Because I mean, we've been talking about this for
01:05:28.176 --> 01:05:31.418
now literally years at this point. I need to book
01:05:31.918 --> 01:05:34.100
a family reading. I need to book a family reading. And I clearly— I have
01:05:34.132 --> 01:05:37.102
paused because I'm like, I just want to make sure I'm gonna use it and
01:05:37.602 --> 01:05:40.056
be able to like truly internalize it. So we were chatting and I was like,
01:05:40.072 --> 01:05:42.833
no, I need to come for me first. But I don't even know if I
01:05:43.202 --> 01:05:46.429
do, because I do know all that other stuff and I have some understanding of
01:05:46.477 --> 01:05:50.346
the houses. And I'm like, I probably should just do the whole family. But I'm
01:05:50.846 --> 01:05:54.505
just afraid of getting lost in the mom shuffle that I'm like, I'll know it
01:05:55.005 --> 01:05:57.139
and then I'll lose it. So I want to make sure that I like have
01:05:57.187 --> 01:06:00.462
the real true intentional time to like hear
01:06:00.962 --> 01:06:04.300
what you're saying and really pull it in, you know? But all of
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.138
it will be useful. Yes. And the good thing is like I have this amazing
01:06:08.555 --> 01:06:11.494
family that I read for. I think their son was like 6 months old and
01:06:11.994 --> 01:06:15.058
now he's like 2 and a half or something. And she'll still message me like
01:06:15.558 --> 01:06:18.816
every 6 months being like, we pulled out your chart again. The cool part is
01:06:18.832 --> 01:06:22.009
like she printed it. It and she has it as a reference.
01:06:22.057 --> 01:06:25.314
So it's like realistically no one that is momming actively
01:06:25.427 --> 01:06:27.833
is using my information every moment of every day.
01:06:28.940 --> 01:06:32.261
I'm not even doing that. But it's a good reference point.
01:06:32.326 --> 01:06:35.711
It's like, oh, we've now gone from 6 months old to 2
01:06:36.211 --> 01:06:40.316
and a half. We're in a way different developmental timeframe,
01:06:40.332 --> 01:06:43.653
whatever. I'm curious to see what did she say again about his Mercury?
01:06:44.279 --> 01:06:47.664
What did she say about how he might communicate or the things he might like?
01:06:47.712 --> 01:06:51.807
You know what I mean? It's like a cool like going back to reference
01:06:51.823 --> 01:06:55.149
point. And are you sending like a— is it like a booklet
01:06:55.197 --> 01:06:58.539
that has information? Are they recorded readings? What is it that come that people have
01:06:58.571 --> 01:07:02.010
to refer back to? But I find that nobody goes back and
01:07:02.170 --> 01:07:05.577
like, who's going back? It's like an hour recording. Who's going back
01:07:06.077 --> 01:07:09.834
and watching that? I mean, maybe someone is, but I write all of
01:07:09.882 --> 01:07:13.080
them out so everybody gets a reading,
01:07:13.658 --> 01:07:17.350
um, that is like very cute and printable. And then usually when
01:07:17.850 --> 01:07:21.530
you do a reading, I send you like an Astro 101 cheat
01:07:22.030 --> 01:07:25.950
sheet that'll say what all the planets are so that when you're referencing it,
01:07:26.450 --> 01:07:28.470
you can reference it back. I think I sent it to you. Did I send
01:07:28.970 --> 01:07:30.670
it to you? You did, you did. I have the cheat sheet because I'm lucky.
01:07:31.170 --> 01:07:34.490
That's what I send with the thing so that when you're—
01:07:34.990 --> 01:07:37.530
because if you reference it again in 2 years and that's the first time you've
01:07:38.030 --> 01:07:41.550
looked at it, you're probably not going to remember what Mercury means. Right.
01:07:42.050 --> 01:07:45.490
Okay. Amazing. Well, everyone obviously needs this. If someone does want to book
01:07:45.990 --> 01:07:48.736
with you, Where can they find you?
01:07:49.089 --> 01:07:52.327
Um, where do they go to get all the juicy deets? So I would
01:07:52.827 --> 01:07:55.805
just say come to my Instagram because that's like my hub for everything.
01:07:56.142 --> 01:08:00.118
My Instagram is Tory, T-O-R-Y dot the dot
01:08:00.262 --> 01:08:03.532
Taurus. It's Tory the Taurus with 2 little periods in there.
01:08:03.997 --> 01:08:07.315
Um, I would send you to my website, but it's linked on there, and I'm
01:08:07.540 --> 01:08:10.890
in the process of hopefully changing everything to Tory the Taurus. Right now it's
01:08:11.390 --> 01:08:14.705
my name, so it's toryshowell.com, but I want it to all be the same.
01:08:14.897 --> 01:08:17.366
I've just been, you know, giving birth and stuff, so it has, you know,
01:08:17.558 --> 01:08:20.783
just a few things that you've been busy doing. Oh, great.
01:08:20.847 --> 01:08:23.513
I will link to all of that because also I know, um, for where we
01:08:24.013 --> 01:08:27.672
started this conversation, you also share about your loss and your journey and
01:08:28.172 --> 01:08:31.317
things that will help people. So it's astrology, it's motherhood,
01:08:31.430 --> 01:08:34.818
it's a lot of useful things that I'm sure can be
01:08:35.318 --> 01:08:37.805
very healing and helpful to people. So I think even if they're not going to
01:08:37.853 --> 01:08:41.016
book a reading, I will link that so that people can go there for all
01:08:41.516 --> 01:08:45.079
of these tidbits of information. Um, well, you are wonderful. I love
01:08:45.579 --> 01:08:48.692
you. I am so grateful that we are friends and have found each other and
01:08:48.708 --> 01:08:50.489
that you came on here to share all of love this because I'm sure it's
01:08:50.989 --> 01:08:53.727
going to be very, very helpful for people. Yeah, thank you so much for having
01:08:53.759 --> 01:08:57.703
me. I hope so. I hope my like, uh, crazy stories will help
01:08:58.203 --> 01:09:01.790
someone one day, you know. It will. It does. You're the best. So thank
01:09:02.290 --> 01:09:05.750
you. Love you. Thank you, thank you, thank you for listening, for joining
01:09:05.862 --> 01:09:09.613
today. I'm so happy to have you. If you liked this episode
01:09:09.629 --> 01:09:13.444
or any of the episodes before, uh, please consider rating
01:09:13.540 --> 01:09:17.227
and reviewing the podcast or sending the episode to a friend who it might help.
01:09:17.949 --> 01:09:21.171
Um, for important takeaways that you don't want to forget,
01:09:21.315 --> 01:09:25.315
I write a little recap on Substack along with other articles
01:09:25.411 --> 01:09:29.170
about motherhood, marriage, spirituality, everything that falls in between.
01:09:29.701 --> 01:09:33.749
So you can head there to Soul Love with Sam, same as
01:09:33.781 --> 01:09:37.219
my Instagram, and subscribe. And I'll see
01:09:37.719 --> 01:09:38.456
you next week. Thank you!