00:00:08
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Aliah Funschell. Welcome to the matchup today. I've got some WNBA legends in the house. First, we've got six time All Star, Olympic gold medalists and first overall pick in the nineteen ninety nine WNBA draft, Jamiko hold Squaw with her one of the most prolific coaches in WNBA history, with two WNBA championships, including bringing New York their first ever championship back in twenty twenty four.
00:00:37
Speaker 2: Sandy Brondello, All.
00:00:38
Speaker 1: Right, Shamika and coach Sandy, thank you so much for joining me today.
00:00:42
Speaker 3: How are you guys doing doing great? Thanks for having me on. Excited for this one.
00:00:47
Speaker 4: I'm doing well. Also, I know coach is really doing well after I went yesterday.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Oh no, I actually brought this to show you.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: I the tempo sent me some Marina maybe Bree spices chef Maybrey spice for her All Star campaign.
00:01:05
Speaker 2: But no, we'll wow chen.
00:01:11
Speaker 4: She's cooking in the kitchen. She was cooked.
00:01:13
Speaker 5: She was cooking last night.
00:01:14
Speaker 3: It's always you sleep well. Actually couldn't sleep that well. Usually I sleep well. But also I'll still hot up. I mean, it was an amazing performance. And hey, if she doesn't meet the old statte and there's something wrong.
00:01:25
Speaker 1: So a lot of times I start off this podcast, we match up either strangers or old friends and we try to figure out where they match up.
00:01:32
Speaker 2: But the two of you actually had a really.
00:01:35
Speaker 1: Really special moment on air like a month ago where Shimika you were talking about Sandy and her impact in your life.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: So I would just love to know do you remember.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: The first time you two met and in what capacity and how how was that?
00:01:51
Speaker 4: Oh man, it was probably during mine. We could have met when I was playing USA basketball because I played up so I competed a guess the Australian national team. But I think when I really found out, like who Sandy Brandella was, it was too late because I was probably chasing after the screen when she was playing for the Shop and she was, you know, hot, shooting that basketball, tremendous, tremendous shooter. Sandy was a very competitive. But I really learned, like from my introduction to the WNBA, just how amazing this like Australian players were and how tough they were.
00:02:25
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I can't.
00:02:27
Speaker 3: Like for me, I everyone knew who Shmi call was. I mean she's just slititing, and her reputation preceded her. And when I came into the you know, the W and had the opportunity against to play against each other.
00:02:38
Speaker 5: And I don't think she chased me. I tried to stay away from it.
00:02:42
Speaker 3: Like the thing was, I hated bigger players guarding me, and now you know, she was a big plan.
00:02:47
Speaker 5: I wasn't going to stop her.
00:02:49
Speaker 3: But look, I can just remember just admiring just her game, just helped she was And then you know, obviously got to know her when I took over the San Antonio Silver Stars and you know, and you know see different part.
00:03:00
Speaker 5: Of our journeys there as a coaching player.
00:03:02
Speaker 3: But it's always good to get to know because sometimes you don't get to know that.
00:03:05
Speaker 5: You know in the play the.
00:03:06
Speaker 3: Players that you you have to coach against will play against as much. And and that's really big for me. I love those relationships.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Right yeah, and before because you both have such great personalities, and before we get into that part of it, to me, Gwat, I know you're new to the analyst world, So can you give me a scouting report on what Sandy was like?
00:03:25
Speaker 2: As a player?
00:03:27
Speaker 4: Oh? Man, I just I just remember like great outside shoot fast off the screens. I mean you really had to like chase her crowd of space and she had bounced you had you had a little get up, you were you were out there. This really went tough. You know, you you were a competitors, so we really had to like, you know, keep an eye on you out there on the court.
00:03:46
Speaker 3: And for me, I mean, you know, she's like six foot one. I remember, just this big guard, like no chance on guarding her. She's just going to be backing me down.
00:03:55
Speaker 4: But you could play out.
00:03:57
Speaker 5: You know, it was great off the dribble.
00:03:58
Speaker 3: You know those mid ranges get to the rams or just back in plays down with their size and strength. I mean that's what I remember. But just a real competitor and a winner. And you know you could see someone that played with a lot of joy out in the court. I think that's what I remember from her. I mean she's a legend.
00:04:15
Speaker 4: Same Sam saying, definitely legend, a legend. This is what this is.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: I know, I love it. I'm like so honored right now because you I love you both.
00:04:25
Speaker 1: But so when you say, any when you started to coach, how did that relation, like, how did you take what you knew going against Sumigua or people like that, and then bring it into then deciding to coach her.
00:04:38
Speaker 2: And you know how did that transition work?
00:04:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, going back to that story, like I started, I retired in two thousand and four after the Olympics and coach was an assistant coach with the San Antonio Silver Stars from two thousand and five and forever grateful for Dan Hues giving me that opportunity. And then in twenty ten, they had this rule. This is how much WNBA has evolved. We had one assistant coach, that's it, and Dan decided to step aside and then all off my husband who's obviously coaching together. And I thought, yeah, this is great opportunity. But in hindsight, and I loved coaching. I love coaching. I love this game. I've been doing it all my life. But in twenty ten, I was pregnant with my second child.
00:05:23
Speaker 5: Do you remember that Shmikah over. I remember.
00:05:25
Speaker 4: I remember, yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker 5: Big, big Bally, and you know, you just think, oh, I can do this. I'm a superwoman.
00:05:32
Speaker 3: So but when I look back, I probably wasn't the right time to become the first, you know, the head coach for the very first time.
00:05:38
Speaker 5: But in the end, like you always take a few experience from all.
00:05:41
Speaker 3: The players coaches that you've been, you know that you played under. But in the end, I wanted to be my authentic self and I am. I think Shmika knew you obviously if you see me on the sideline now. And I don't think I've changed now. I've got more experiences.
00:05:57
Speaker 5: That's a part of the journey.
00:05:58
Speaker 3: So I'm a way better coach now that I was there in my first year and surviving on three hours of sleep every night with one assistant coach.
00:06:05
Speaker 5: But I think the relationship part that doesn't changed because it's so big.
00:06:08
Speaker 3: I think I try and pour into the players because I think, you know, they know that you love and care for them, and we can build these relationships, we can overcome any obstacle. And I think that I really embraced that role here and you know, I think that's still my identity.
00:06:22
Speaker 5: What you see is what you get.
00:06:24
Speaker 3: I think I'm you know, I'm always going to hold myself to high standards. I'm going to hold big you know, I'm not perfect, so but I always striving to be. You know, the players per perfection as myself. And you know, I suppose you know twenty ten, I just yeah, we had a you know, we had a new team, had a lot of new players trying to integrate, and Ruth Riley got injured, and we still had Becky, we had Michelle Snow.
00:06:47
Speaker 5: We had a good, good team, but we did face a.
00:06:49
Speaker 3: Lot of adversity with our with our injuries, and you know, I know we made the playoffs, but in hindsight, we probably should have missed it to get a higher draft pick.
00:06:59
Speaker 5: I got rid of me after twenty ten. Obviously someone didn't.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: Like me there, but that was a part of the journey there, so no hard feelings. I just realized, No, twenty ten was a blur because I had my second child and I traveled with my I went back to work eight days after Crazy was born and traveled with two kids under three.
00:07:19
Speaker 5: Crazy, I am crazy.
00:07:20
Speaker 4: Thank you.
00:07:20
Speaker 5: I can edit that.
00:07:24
Speaker 4: Too too. You're tough, You're tough, Sandy.
00:07:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe I thought I was tough, she read and I thought.
00:07:31
Speaker 3: But it still was a great learning experience because you can't if you don't grow unless you're in a situation, isn't it? And then I realized that Okay, I wasn't. I didn't give my best opportunity to be my best because of you know I was. I should have just just took care of being a mum, right right?
00:07:50
Speaker 1: What is something that Sandy saw knew as a player that maybe when you were playing you didn't see in yourself and then she kind of brought that out of you.
00:07:58
Speaker 4: I would say, is you were It was really easy for me to communicate with her. I think sometimes you know, you run into coaches, you can't always express yourself in an open and an open way and honest way.
00:08:11
Speaker 2: You know.
00:08:12
Speaker 4: I felt like if I felt something or wanted to talk about basketball on the court, it was just easy. It was like she was still a player in my eyes, you know, and she got it. Like she was like, okay, all right, you just post up. Then you know, I'm like, but I'm you know, we're running to play, but I'm you know, I'm big.
00:08:27
Speaker 5: I can just to stop.
00:08:29
Speaker 4: And she's like most something, Whereas some coaches, and I was new to the team too, so some coaches may say, oh, you know, if it's not a second and you know, just roll out. But now she's like, make some noise, get the ball. So those little things of having that you know, familiarity, you know, having played a game like really helped me. The communication was very easy.
00:08:49
Speaker 1: And sandy for you to get your flowers on television after all those years, What was it like to hear how much you impacted not just her playing career, but life after.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, to be quite honest, it's like just tearing up a little bit, because you know, it's more about, you know, just why do we play this game? It's about the relationships too, and yes, of course we want to win, but how do you impact?
00:09:13
Speaker 5: I always say what kind of legacy you want to leave behind?
00:09:16
Speaker 3: And that's important for me and Shmika and I like, I've I loved coaching her, but you know, I haven't seen her a lot over the race. But you know, for her to to show how much had the impact, it's more like, you know, if I did anything right, I did that right.
00:09:31
Speaker 5: And I want people to.
00:09:32
Speaker 3: Know me as a very you know, someone that really loves and cares for them. And I always want the best, even though I have to hold you know, I try and hold players to high standards only because I know that's what a winning team needs.
00:09:43
Speaker 5: To look like.
00:09:44
Speaker 3: But I embrace those relationships and and you know it's touching because you know, I mean, I think i've I've impacted a lot of players, but when you hear it in this this how I impacted Shmikwo and that's so much respect for and man, no lot. So I was trying not to be too emotional on it, but I was, you know it, you know, I was happy that I made a small impact in your you know, everything that went on at that time.
00:10:13
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, thank you. Like I said, I carried that with me.
00:10:16
Speaker 2: I was.
00:10:17
Speaker 4: I was shocked at and getting choked up because I just haven't ran into you like I remember once when you were in New York, me and Teresa Edwards ran into each other and I was like, you know what, Tea, we need to go to a game. We need to go pop up on Sandy and them. But we never could coordinate our schedules. And I was like, when I get the chance, I was going to say, you know, see you face to face. I was going to say that, but I think it's it was important because you know, we hear a lot of stories about culture and player relationships, and I just think, you know, for myself, you know, here I am doing the games. Now. A lot of people know my journey because I'm just very outspoken about it. But it was a time in my life where, especially early on being a young player trying to figure it out, I didn't feel like that safe space or time times where I may have told, you know, a culture staff, and I didn't feel like protected when I told Sandy. Also me not being accountable because I'm young trying to figure out things too write. But at that time in San Antonio, I have done. I did like a lot of work and I was able to communicate what I needed And instead of sitting there, you know and having a situation where I'm not the healthiest I could be, I said, all right, I just have to go to the go to my coach and say this is what I need, you know, because I was really struggling. You know, a lot of people don't understand like mental health. You can struggle from different environmental things. For me, waking up in those summers in San Antonio one hundred and two degrees, everything you know, started like really affecting me and like my mental health, and so I needed to really talk to someone, to get to the psychiatrist, to adjust my medication and stuff. And I knew that, and I was like, Okay, let me go to the go to my coach and to the team. And it was just great that she was willing to assist me. She didn't judge me and make it feel awkward. She's like action.
00:12:06
Speaker 1: And I think it's impressive too, because I recently had another episode with mental health advocates and it right now it seems, oh, yeah, you talked about your mental health, no big deal because it's normalized. But ten years ago, fifteen years ago, that wasn't the case.
00:12:22
Speaker 2: And so it does.
00:12:23
Speaker 1: Take a lot of you know, courage to be able to speak up and advocate for yourself, and Sandy for you to meet her with you know, exceeded expectations of you know, what she was looking for, is just amazing.
00:12:36
Speaker 3: I think being a formal player, and you know, when you have to understand the pressure that these young superstars Schmika was a superstar.
00:12:44
Speaker 5: Now I was a pretty good player. I always you.
00:12:47
Speaker 3: Don't understand or the pressures, the pressures that they get from outside, and sometimes it can get lonely. So I know, at the end of my career as a player, I kind of mentored a lot of the young Australian players because I probably I had older ones that mentored me and it felt like a safe space because you have so many highs and lows, and especially when you're less generational talent like Shamik. While there's you have to put your shoes a feet in you know, you put your feet in your shoes.
00:13:15
Speaker 5: Because how hard it can be.
00:13:17
Speaker 3: So it's more just to know someone that cares and then wants to help in that regard because we all go through something. And I think that's how the world's changed, how the WNBA's changed too. Now there's so much more support for that because you know, it's people like Shmik were coming out and sharing their stories.
00:13:32
Speaker 5: That's how change matters.
00:13:34
Speaker 3: And I think over the years we've been able to advocate that it's not about being these players putting them out there to be you guys have to do this physically. You can't show emotions. We're all different, we're all unique. But now that I think all teams now WNBA teams, each individual team has invested in professionals in anything the teams. We have the physical therapists, we have the massage therapists, but we have the psychologists and if we need now there's someone that is a part of the team, and we encourage you know, we encourage all of our pliers to seek help. And it could be for many different areas, and mental health count it, you know. So I think I think we've made great progress, and so I'm happy about that because there is a lot of pressure and now with social media, it gets harder and harder.
00:14:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, a great point. I like that, Sayandy, I remember back in our day beginning of the league. I mean trying to find you know, I remember my time in DC just even trying to find like a therapist, and like talking to the team was sort of like a search, you know, I know, like they had to contact the NBA to see if anyone had any resources there because also the team it was something new, so they thought, okay, they have to protect us. They just can't send us to anyone, you know. So everybody was trying to figure it out. But now everything has gotten to the top level, rightist. I remember, like, can I need a massage therapist? Everybody's looking at me. You're like, what you have to pay for that? In college, in college at Tennessee, we had someone we had someone with our team, so it was it was a growing process, you know, first one a leave, first started out. That's why I'm just so happy. I'm sure like Sana you're in it. I'm just so happy what the league is. You know, all of our hard work has like paid off. I have a young daughter. I have a six year old son and a four year old daughter, and just seeing her excitement of seeing all these players and some girly you know, some some very powerful whatever you like you can pick, and my daughters is in front of the television clapping all the time.
00:15:35
Speaker 5: I love that.
00:15:36
Speaker 3: That's what it's about, isn't it. You know, the impact that we can have on the next generation. What kind of leg you say we old, not just it's individuals in the league.
00:15:43
Speaker 5: So it's pretty special.
00:15:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. Where do you see room for improvement when it comes to advocating for the players or the mental health?
00:15:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I know social.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Media it's like pretty much unregulated, But where do you think there could be room for improvement?
00:15:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's always room for improvement, isn't it.
00:15:58
Speaker 3: It's making sure that these players are given the very best and they have the confidentiality to go to whatever they need obviously, you know we've now in the CBA, you know, you know, you can you know, IVS, f F treatment, everything like that. It's taking in what the whole female woman looks like and support in what area they need. So I think, you know, credit to the w n b A and the Players Association. They've done a great job of giving the players what they need and in terms of improvement, you know, I think we've made huge steps. I think we're in a great spot now and I probably need to speak to the players what more we could do.
00:16:35
Speaker 5: But I think every.
00:16:36
Speaker 3: Team is always evolving about Okay, how were us these players to do this? And they are the product, so how do we make them to be the best product. So it's just been you know, sourcing whatever help we need, that's what.
00:16:48
Speaker 5: We have to source.
00:16:49
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, we're we're a billion dollar sport now and you know, I think they're the owner. We have ownerships that are invested in providing and giving the best experience and making all of out Frances always as world class.
00:17:02
Speaker 4: I know, it's beautiful. I mean I had the opportunity to go to the do a mental health program and go to every w NBA team. I can't remember what season that was, maybe maybe it was like twenty and sixteen and he had me go. So it was great starting to see this change. You know, some teams, like the Minnesota at the time had the most amazing facility, like they had Kombuchka. It was like wow, you know, and then no, it was really fancy. And then I got to you know, I got to see teams that were like still like at a community college, teams that you know, when we took the meeting it was like in the back of a closet out in Atlanta. So it makes you appreciate I'm serious where we are now and like to you know, I always say, people want to see what people want to be seeing valued and heard, Right, that's what belonging is all about. Now these women are this CBA is like their value. They're heard like like you said, total being person. They're hitting it from every angle. So you know, just keep shooting up. That's what we want to do. Keep shooting ahead.
00:18:14
Speaker 1: This season, the thirtieth season, there's just so much joy and celebration, especially with all the players I did pave the way for in order to have a CBA like this, So Sandy, I'll start with you. What are you most proud of over the progress that the league has made over the last thirty years?
00:18:36
Speaker 5: So many things.
00:18:37
Speaker 3: I mean, I first, you know, I've been twenty seven of the thirty years involved. I set out the first year, wasn't involved, and then I set out the Olympic Ears when I.
00:18:46
Speaker 5: Was still playing.
00:18:49
Speaker 3: But I love being a part of this and I love seeing the evolutions. So for me, it's you know, in the beginning, I was drafted by the Detroit Shock and I had an amazing experience. I just love bask I earned nineteen thousand dollars first year.
00:19:04
Speaker 5: Wow, that's it. But you know, at that time, it's just you know, that was just where we're at.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: And you know, I played overseas the supplement that I played the Australian team playing all year round.
00:19:13
Speaker 5: I just wanted to play against.
00:19:14
Speaker 3: The bear so not to be to like to succeed, you know, to challenge myself against the very best, and you know, I kind of loved it.
00:19:21
Speaker 4: You know.
00:19:21
Speaker 5: It was always about you know, you know, just competing.
00:19:24
Speaker 3: And but I think the evolution we had some years where I remember Phoenixmoker, we had thirteen thousand and then it kind of went off a little bit, but then the excitement came back up again. I just think the owners, it really does start with the investment at the top, and that starts with the ownership. And you see, now I don't think any owner is there's no millionaires.
00:19:45
Speaker 5: They're all billionaires right over these teams.
00:19:47
Speaker 3: Now, so you kind of I always say, I say when I was with an I say, you know, the difference between a billionaire owner.
00:19:54
Speaker 5: And a millionaire owner.
00:19:55
Speaker 3: And but now it's like, you know, everyone, if you don't like, we haven't got our practice yet, but we will.
00:20:01
Speaker 5: Be building one. It's just it's something you just have to have.
00:20:05
Speaker 3: So it just means And we talked about all the support that the players have given here, because if we want them to put this amazing product on, we have to give them whatever they need to be at the best. And the coaching staffs get better. You know, there's more experience. We've got data scientists, you name it. You know, we've got international scouts.
00:20:24
Speaker 5: Just the growth of the league.
00:20:25
Speaker 3: That makes me really proud because obviously there's a lot of Australians in this league, but we have the most internationals ever and the CBA has helped that because everyone loves playing for their country, you know, I mean I sat out two years because the playing for my country meant a lot. But now they're getting supplemented because we're a long time retired, aren't we. So it's my you give them the money, they will come. So we truly are you know, this is this season will be the best players ever to play in the league. But the players before we had some great talent. You know, we had less teams, but it was competitive. But Lisa Leslie, you're under Griffith, you know, Cheryl Smoots since you could go on and on. It was tough, like you know, yes, yeah, we have a lot of teams. We have great talent, but back in those early days it was hard to win because we had the USA team and you know, you could have three great teams for them, you know, the Australian team was here basically, and so I think it was really competitive there, but we didn't have the visibility, you know, social media. While somemertimes social media is hard, it has been great, you know, because of the visibility and we've got sponsors just wanting to get on board. We've got NBA guys that are showing interest and attended games.
00:21:37
Speaker 5: All of that matter.
00:21:38
Speaker 3: We've got famous people like in New York sitting it's hey.
00:21:43
Speaker 5: You know, well they're going, so let's go.
00:21:45
Speaker 3: Because I always say, if someone goes to one game, they're going to fall in love because they're going to see how talent these female athletes are. And that makes me very I'm very proud of what we started, even though it was great back then, We've just got more resources, We've got more money, got more visibility, and that's why, you know, WNBA is a real movement now and our goal is to make sure we're going to keep growing.
00:22:07
Speaker 5: The expansions coming. So it's fun. I think, you know, we're getting the flowers that we deserved, and we deserved them back then. Shmikua, right, we had to pave the way for now, and I love that, like Alicia Clark fought for the.
00:22:22
Speaker 3: Former players to get some kind of payment because they did. Without those ones before us, they wouldn't be here now. And you know, the USA basketball women's team was just unbeatable, still are, but you know, they paved the way so because they became household names, and that's where it started it's a joy for me. I still have so much passion, like the first day I played a game to even now coaching, Like my passion hasn't waned at all. And I'm just actually more excited because so we can keep growing this amazing sport.
00:22:50
Speaker 5: And these players become their own brand. How cool is Oh?
00:22:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I loved that we can learn that we can learn about their like who they are. You know, we have opportunity to learn personalities. You know, they're fashion what they do in their free times. Like it's it's a full time job keeping up with all these amazing young ladies. Yeah, and I get to see who has I realized the Atlanta Dream has one of the best tiktoks talk. But back to what you're saying. So I know, like you said, I know the Australian players. How many Australians offhand? Can you think how many are in the w n b A right now?
00:23:25
Speaker 3: There's about ten of them? Eleven maybe eleven? Yeah, eleven some of her dps. But yeah, back in the early days, that's his We had a little mold back in Yeah, yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: It was, it was really big. It was really a lot. But I bring it up because I feel like the frenchees might be catching.
00:23:42
Speaker 5: Like heady caught us?
00:23:45
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? I know I'm and and everybody acts like this. On my side, everybody's like, man, you know the French player, I was like everybody has known for years, like like the Friends had some amazing athletes for years. It was, you know, it was like, are you going to play in France?
00:24:02
Speaker 2: Oh?
00:24:02
Speaker 4: You know they really play because they're so super athletics. So it's it's been awesome now seeing this this international emersience, you know, it's it's been great. Yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: No, like Marines like one leggage shot, like people are like talking about that all the time. But no, even with social media as a w NBA content creator, it like drives me crazy. But it's also endearing when people are like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know this player existed, and I'm like, yeah, well, if you love this player, you would have loved the other players like and so I think it's it's really cool to be able to storytell about players that maybe didn't get the social media attention back then.
00:24:40
Speaker 2: But shmik, well, I'll start with you on this one.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: Was there some growing pains of growing the league where it's like, oh, shoot, this is this is bigger now. It's not like back in the day when we could go under the radar. Like, have you had any growing pains with the with the league's growth.
00:24:56
Speaker 4: Any growing pains have I had? I don't. I don't. I can't personally have any growing pains, you know if I look at it from like just me assessing the league and I don't work for the league. I just think it was just it was tough. It was tough, you know, I won't say it's tough, but watching you know, the players fight for themselves. I love that, Like that was exciting. They stood ten toles down, they did not waiver, they did not separate, And that's tough because a lot of times when people give you a little and you you don't think, look, our league has a really go It's no way that players should be making from what I retire with just twenty thousand dollars more, you know what I'm saying. It's a lot more like you said, sponsorships and social media. So I'm just glad that they understood their value and at their work value and work that was that was something I was just like, go go go because a lot of times they try to divide, divide and conquer any type of business. That's what happens, you know. And we also heard about you know this NBA negotiations in the past, how they've gotten to one player unfortunately helped them waiver the thought. But like you said, you mentioned Alicia and Nka the first thing when I saw her at the Final four this year and I was just like mega, like congratulations and you were awesome. She goes, no, thank you, thank you for you know what you've done for this league. I tried to really fight for you guys. We tried to really fight for you guys. So last game that we had, what was that Wednesday, and we did the doubleheader in USA, you know, we're talking Amy and she's like, you know what are these younger players going up to Necca and saying thank you? Because you know Naka and all the young ladies that fought, like she really helped change things with her voice and drive her passion. You know, that's miss time one hundred. Now you know she she fought for this, you know, and so and I had to explain to her, like when you're in it, sometimes you just don't realize the impact even though you're receiving the benefit. You know, she's amazing. So we actually gave her our game ball, you know. I mean, I mean, she hit a game where awesome, but just because of her impact, we want to give her her flowers. You know, all the women that were a part of it, because it was tough. I remember running into Kathy too that same weekend and I was like, so, Kathy, how do you feel? Because that's just me. I got to ask the questions. She was like, I'm exhausted, I'm happy that's over. And I'm like, I'm sure you were. Because it's hard. It's hard to do high level business, you know, Sandy, you know you guys know mm hmmm.
00:27:24
Speaker 2: And with all the eyeballs, it's crazy. I would like to pivot a.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: Little bit to coaching and some x's and o's. Sandy, you coached me for one day when I signed a one day contract with the New York Liberty Media.
00:27:39
Speaker 5: No, it was.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: It was the cutest thing ever.
00:27:41
Speaker 1: Brian, who does pr for the Liberty, he had this like brainchild to sign the media to one day training camp contracts and we had to go through a workout with the coaching staff, and Sandy actually like to show out and she won knockout, so we didn't stand a chance. But I mean, your coaching style is just so amazing. And I mean, right now New York City is buzzing because of the Knicks, but you were actually the one to help accomplish something that the city needed to see, and that was a New York Liberty Championship.
00:28:15
Speaker 5: So just.
00:28:19
Speaker 1: Going but I mean so many emotions going into that, but also the x's and o's of you're dealing with some superstars. How do you get them to all gel together to be a championship team when you do have a big three and they all you know, can produce.
00:28:37
Speaker 2: How do you manage a team like that and produce a championship?
00:28:42
Speaker 4: Yeah?
00:28:42
Speaker 5: Look, you know I really embraced that role.
00:28:44
Speaker 3: I loved it, you know, and obviously finally winning a championship for that city in that organization, you know, is so special and will always be because we'll always be the first. But you know, I suppose I've learned over the years of what a successful team looks like, and starting with the Australian team, and we really right from the get go, I always focus on the culture.
00:29:04
Speaker 5: So what's a winning culture look like. So we do a lot of that.
00:29:06
Speaker 3: You know, we just don't go in and just say these are all individuals. We need individuals to come together to play as a team. And you know that started with the opals as a player, and then when I started, you know, as a coach, I just kept that. Like Diana Trusse here, it really started back then. Like I say, when your best players buy in, greatness can really happen. And that year in twenty fourteen, when we did win with Diana, we were unstoppable.
00:29:28
Speaker 5: No one was stopping us. And you know it was we had a great team.
00:29:32
Speaker 3: But still, you know, their egos to get involved, but they wanted to win.
00:29:36
Speaker 5: I would say, celebrate your teammate. You know we do it. If we all do, we.
00:29:39
Speaker 3: Can all sacrifice a little bit of our game, which Diana did that game that year too, because the year before she was the best scorer in the league. She's one of the most amazing scorers ever. But it was more she had to sacrifice a little bit of her scoring. But she that year she was the most highest assist in the league's you know, and in the end, it's just look like what's it mean If you sacrifice a little bit there and we do, there's great things can happen.
00:30:01
Speaker 5: So I went into the New York. We obviously the first year we learn a lot.
00:30:04
Speaker 3: We had a young team, and then we were able to get some assets and Jonathan Cold did a great job of getting you know, Brianna Stewart coming in and Courtney Vana Slut and John coul Jones to build around with Sabrina and you know, we still like Benigel Andie's some good young talent there too. And it was all about everyone has to sacrifice a little bit, you know, but everything it's actually going to make.
00:30:24
Speaker 5: It more special.
00:30:26
Speaker 3: And it does because you know, ultimately we're competitors, aren't. Where we play a team sport and winning, Yeah, we know how hard it is to win.
00:30:34
Speaker 5: But everyone can get onto the same page. It's great.
00:30:36
Speaker 3: Now, that doesn't mean it's always easy. People go, oh, you guys look so.
00:30:40
Speaker 5: Connected, but there's hois and lows.
00:30:42
Speaker 3: Throughout every team. It doesn't even matter. It's how you handle that. And that's why I always say, you hear me speak. I don't get too high or too low because it solds nothing definitely, So I stay consistent in how I lead, and I'm very I communicate, you know, the relate. The communication is really big for me. I'm very honest, but I'm I'm always the biggest you.
00:31:01
Speaker 5: Know, supporter as well.
00:31:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I want, you know, I want them to be the best that they can be, truly do and that's.
00:31:07
Speaker 5: A part of it.
00:31:08
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, you know, obviously it was close near the end, but we found a way to win. So it starts with that building and culture. But culture, it starts every like.
00:31:16
Speaker 5: I do it in Toronto too.
00:31:18
Speaker 3: We always go, we revisit it, like every ten days or when we can, we do a little culture session and it's just a connection piece, you know, when you can have all different nationalities or players and come together and form this one winning culture, it's it's pretty special.
00:31:34
Speaker 5: And we had that.
00:31:35
Speaker 3: But look, it helps when your best players are humble superstars. Yeah and true, true, Yeah, that makes my job easier. They out of Stewart, Dina, trusty. I mean, how lucky was I. It is a privilege for me to coach. But I learned as much from them as they would have learnt from me. And but to be able to do something together and for this city was really special.
00:31:57
Speaker 4: People need to understand like sports is like such a microcosm of society. It's like we are from all different backgrounds. I'm going to Poland you didn't played all We didn't played all over the world. You got players international coming and it may sometimes be a language issue we're trying to figure but basketball is a universal language and sisterhood it becomes a universal language and you just try to figure it out and like help each other, and it's just just a special feeling as you start to see that grow, you know, the season planet like someone that doesn't necessarily they may understand a little bit about the language, but they understand basketball. You know, you had your teammate that that you're guiding in America or they're guiding you in another country, and as they start to pick it up, you feel proud and it's just watching that sisterhood and relationship building is very important.
00:32:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it takes the right coach, and I do want to talk about building an expansion team, but before then, I don't know how much you're on social media, but people love the relation ship that you had have still with Sabrina and I to your point earlier, I would love to know a little bit more about like the technicalities of coaching someone like her, because she comes in building a franchise around her, one of the best shooters in the league. But she did have a weakness early in her career of her defense, and through the last few years of you coaching her, her defense significantly improved. And so how do you go about coaching a superstar? And Sabrina never seems to have an ego. I love Sabrina and covering her, but how do you go to coach a superstar where it's like, look like I know you have everyone in your ear telling you how amazing you are, but here's how to really really improve? And so how did you go about helping her improve on her defense?
00:33:44
Speaker 5: Look, I think.
00:33:45
Speaker 3: Honesty, showing film, showing analytics. But look, I think that they're great like you. So they come out of college and I mean, this is a generational talent, Sabrina and just a winner the way that she can shoot the ball. But you know, there's always who's the complete player you can always she's always like even over the years, we tried to make her better, you know, on the court, on the offensive vend as well too.
00:34:10
Speaker 5: And I think we did. We sped up her shot.
00:34:12
Speaker 3: You know her training, how she trained, we she probably trained like not in the right way the first year.
00:34:17
Speaker 5: We try to change it that but then she puts the.
00:34:19
Speaker 3: Hard work in and she has this mentality and I think that helps too.
00:34:23
Speaker 5: She's had always had that.
00:34:24
Speaker 3: But I think it's just building the relationships, having honest communication.
00:34:28
Speaker 5: Holding her accountable in front of the team too.
00:34:30
Speaker 3: I know at times I was hard on her because I always I always say I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. So it's just sometimes like people tell someone you're not a great defender, that you believe it, but now but I know, like we're going to help you, but you could. You could be a really good defender if you do you know, X, Y and B and and may not. It might always be perfect because there's great players, but knowing that there's a team behind it. So I think it's just a knowing that, hey, you got we don't want you to be perfect, We just want you to go out work really hard, and then just showing her and you know when maybe when you know, all players to have a little bit of a rest here and there, but just pushing her and those relationships matter to me.
00:35:08
Speaker 5: I think you know, Sabrina, they is like shmik or they.
00:35:11
Speaker 3: Carry so much pressure. Yeah, you talk about the Caitlin Clarks of this world and all that. There's so much pressure on them and it's more like just got to show them a little bit of love too, and you know, but you still want them to be the best version of themselves.
00:35:23
Speaker 5: And that's my job. That's my job as a coach, isn't it.
00:35:25
Speaker 3: So if I don't do that, I'm not If I don't hold everyone accountable, then.
00:35:30
Speaker 5: I'm not doing my job to the best of ability. And I try to be fair, you know. And obviously the superstars get along a leash. That's just how it has. But you know, Marie, if you've got Marina in here, like I.
00:35:40
Speaker 3: Think she's playing her best basketball, but I'm still on her about her defense.
00:35:44
Speaker 5: You know, I'm like, you a complain better.
00:35:46
Speaker 3: Defense because I know you can, and that's our goal is to get in it to there. That doesn't meant but I believe in her one hundred and fifty percent. And last night was you know, I just was the most amazing experience.
00:35:57
Speaker 5: Out of memory.
00:35:59
Speaker 2: Are here?
00:36:00
Speaker 4: What I want to know is I want to know? Was like, she tied a record for fifty three?
00:36:06
Speaker 5: Why didn't I get her?
00:36:09
Speaker 4: And that?
00:36:10
Speaker 5: But you know I had I apologized after that. You know why I didn't know what the record was? No one, No one told me, but they told me the record for three point shots was ten made.
00:36:24
Speaker 3: So that's why I was hunting threes at the end and then then during it and I'm like, why isn't someone telling me because I would have went for too.
00:36:35
Speaker 5: But then but list at least she tired it so it felt bad.
00:36:38
Speaker 3: I'm like, that don't mean great, But she's like, no, it was because we were we were in the fourth quarter.
00:36:44
Speaker 5: It wasn't much defense.
00:36:45
Speaker 3: We were just trying to get her going and get her you know, and our players, So don't.
00:36:50
Speaker 5: Worry I apologize. I'm like, am idiot, Like someone needs to tell me that.
00:36:53
Speaker 3: I know.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: That's a great question.
00:36:57
Speaker 5: And she was tired.
00:36:58
Speaker 4: She wouldn't come out.
00:37:00
Speaker 3: You wanted to come out earlier, and I'm like, no, no, no, you got to stay in there because I was going, you need one more?
00:37:05
Speaker 5: Three?
00:37:08
Speaker 4: Are they gonna do they have shirts or something? Talking about money? Maybry Is that really yeah, I'm sure. Well, yeah, yeah, the shirt, I'm that's cool.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: We'll send it, We'll send it. I'm sure that was money. You know, her reputation procedes her. She's yet mayby, She's she's been bowling out this year.
00:37:26
Speaker 5: So really really proud of her.
00:37:35
Speaker 1: So, coach Sandy, you go from coaching like a Big three slash four to then now having an expansion team. That's kind of like starting from scratch. So I know that you always have the same values and and everything as a coach, but does anything change having to, you know, now coach a team that's basically a startup.
00:37:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably a little bit. You're probably a little bit more teaching.
00:38:02
Speaker 3: You know, you have to be more detail oriented, and I love that part, just getting back to teaching the game process driven. Because we had five first time w NBA players here. We've also behind Minnesota because they have Collier and you know, obviously the young check player got a cl and they've got.
00:38:18
Speaker 5: Some injuries there.
00:38:18
Speaker 3: They were the second team with the most you know, games missed through injuries. We had so many injuries. I was playing players out of position in the beginning, but working it out, but we were still broilding it's more about I wanted to take this job and because of the challenge.
00:38:33
Speaker 5: Of doing something different.
00:38:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've coached these you know, super teams, they would say, and that was fun. I absolutely loved it, really good. But doing something in a new country intrigued me. How we can grow this game here. But doing something from the ground up. Now, I wish the CBA was done a little quicker. It would have been a little bit more different. But building, you know, just starting from the foundation, and like no one, we're not expected to win a championship, but we still have expectations to be the most competitive we can be and continue to grow. And I think we've had some you know, you know, the top teams have shown what we're not where we're at, but our injuries have heard us. We haven't had a one game with our full group, and we won't for you know, a few more weeks here. But it's still a great challenge because the players are all buying in and trying to do the best and keep learning because you know, we've got some great pieces. So I've been really really encouraged with some of the players that we do have and how we can can continue to build and you know Kicky Rice is going to be a star in this in this this league, and so unfortunate her injury and that Britney's sites was having her best season in the league too.
00:39:41
Speaker 5: Just make adjustments, you know.
00:39:42
Speaker 3: It is what it is, the injuries, and but I've enjoyed I've enjoyed it all. Yeah it's hard at times, but it's hard every single year.
00:39:51
Speaker 5: But I'm enjoying it.
00:39:52
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I'm happy Brittany. Brittany got the opportunity because I've been saying for years when I watched her, she isn't one of the probably athletically probably top five as far as the athlete. I mean, she just can turn it on. Amazing, amazing athlete. I'm glad she's getting this opportunity, Like, just have a major role into showcase that talent. She's been playing great.
00:40:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a slim seasoning too.
00:40:16
Speaker 2: Shout out to them. Yes, should go for you though a new role this season.
00:40:25
Speaker 1: What made you decide to step in front of the camera and to give all this ball knowledge that you've been holding on to How what made you decide to just tap into this side of yourself?
00:40:37
Speaker 4: This is this is a major question. You know, I'm grateful that even though I chose to take a different path, I'm grateful that always, you know, opportunities, you know, people still always ask me to do things, and I was just in my flow raising my kids. So I'm like, no, I like my summers off because I really operate on a college schedule pretty much, you know, because I'm at the Companies in a Universe, summer is a kind of chill. And it was when it was presented to me, I was like, well, I don't know.
00:41:06
Speaker 5: But then I got.
00:41:07
Speaker 4: To opportunity to see how this thing was growing and how I didn't have I just had to show up as my authentic self. I don't want to do anything where I have to be somebody else, and that was expressed to me. They were like, come as you are, say which you know you want to say about the game, and just be you. So that made me change. What was kind of funny was I was at the Final four and I ran into Renee Montgomery, who is my teammate on USA, and I go talk to her. She goes, first question, what made you? What made you say yes? And I and I told her a little bit. She goes, yeah, because they were saying if you didn't say yes, I was gonna have to call you and try to convince you to do so everyone had in their mind that I was gonna say no, and you know, it's just feeling good about it.
00:41:51
Speaker 3: You.
00:41:52
Speaker 4: I mean, who's gonna who's gonna say no to working with like Lisa Kearney, l Duncan you know I get to also be a teammate with Tamika Kitchens, you know, one of my good friends in college. So I'm just a great group of people and they just have fun talking about a game we love. Like that's like the easiest job ever, right.
00:42:13
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:42:13
Speaker 1: No, it's it's so fun to see you both just thriving and like having you two together to have an at length conversation and just about all of your knowledge and your relationship has been like so cool. So my final question for each of you, So I bring this up a lot, but I am a musical theater nerd and I love Wicked and like the being changed for good whole like thing.
00:42:36
Speaker 2: So how have each of you changed the other for good?
00:42:41
Speaker 5: Great question?
00:42:42
Speaker 4: Man?
00:42:42
Speaker 2: Thank you?
00:42:43
Speaker 3: You know for me, you meet so many you know, as a play you have so many teammates and you know you connect, you connect with all of them, but is there something that you're really close.
00:42:53
Speaker 5: It's just like as a as.
00:42:54
Speaker 3: A coach, you know, you find you have this little connections and you know, I think that just the connections, you know, when just Sumika was quiet but kind of understood because I became mentoring Lauren Jackson and you know, all those help you know, he's seeing this is so hard, like trying to help them Connor, you like, I want them to thrive.
00:43:16
Speaker 5: And I think that's the impact, just the human element of that connection.
00:43:20
Speaker 3: I think that's how, you know, showing that actually do care like and it comes from the heart. You know, I do care, especially with you know that someone can come to me with something so hard, but no they can trust me. It just knows, you know something, if everyone thinks I'm a shit coach, I'm actually a great human being, you know, and that you know, I want to be known, want my legacy be really good coach, but even better human being. And I think that I think that's how you know, that's just that touching and obviously more so now because I didn't know the effect that it really had on her.
00:43:54
Speaker 5: But you know, I think that's that's important for me, and sometimes we miss that.
00:43:59
Speaker 3: We're always chasing money or you know, the success, but sometimes it's about the people in the relationships that you have.
00:44:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, but so sweet From that, From that, from that interaction, I think that it just made me just a little more more empathetic, kindness, just understanding, because like when you're when you're going through such like in your head, it's like a sped up version. But I was struggling with so many thoughts, so many different things, and when she was like so kind in that moment trying to help me, it just slowed every thing down. And I was like, oh man, this this makes me feel good. It's like I feel safe, you know. So yeah, that's how when I when I meet these kids or people just kind of like struggling with different things, it just really I tell myself to slow down and be present, to listen, not to judge. And so I've just been able to form and help so many people because I've been just blessed with those traits. But I got that from you. So I was like, man, this is this is a part of who I am. A big part was that that small interactions Sandy. I mean, it's crazy what you said. We have not really seen each other but almost sixteen years. I looked at Ride and them I said, guys, I've been hearing this with me sixteen sixteen years. It's crazy, And to let it out. I was just like, Wow, felt good to tell you that. So much love to you, Sandy for real.
00:45:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it. You know.
00:45:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're amazing human being and I love that. You know, you're helping people because that's in that, that's what we're in. I just want people to be the best version and help women, you know, have a you know, if we all could be kind to each.
00:45:34
Speaker 5: Other, that the world would be a special place, wouldn't it.
00:45:38
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Yeah, for sure. But last thing, I'm really happy. It's not bad that Toronto's one of my favorite cities. I know, you love it like a cleaner New York. I mean, you're not thinking it New York, but Toronto, Toronto, Toronto is I love I love it. I was telling my wife about I'm like, oh my goodness, I used to go there like all the time. Last time I was there was like three years ago. This is a vibe as we're.
00:46:03
Speaker 3: Saying we need to come and visit anytime. We'll go to the restaurants here amazing. The vibe around the city, I like, it's very diverse, so it really reminds me of Australia so a lot, and they love their sports.
00:46:15
Speaker 5: So yeah, you guys always welcome. We can go visit. These at the restaurants here are just amazing.
00:46:21
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:46:22
Speaker 4: Okay, and tell Mina tell Monica, I said, hello, awesome, I haven't talked to Monica the gea Monica deem Monica.
00:46:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, different hat on now, but send your regards okay, thank you.
00:46:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you to so much for joining me. I also need to make a trip out to Toronto to see to see a game in person. But I appreciate you both so much and I loved everything about this conversation, so thank you both.
00:46:47
Speaker 5: Appreciate it, Thanks for having me on. Great to see you all.
00:46:50
Speaker 4: Right much love y'all be saying.
00:46:52
Speaker 2: Good to see you too.
00:46:58
Speaker 1: The Matchup with a Leah is an iHeart Woman's sports production produced by Britney Brown and Rodney Brown of Barbara Gene Productions. Supervising producer is Kaylin West at REALM. Associate producer is Amayah Brathwaite. Talent booking by Melissa Chosid and Deirdre Dodd, posted by me Aleah Funshell. Our executive producers are Molly Barton, Jerry Carita, Grace Fuz and Jesse Kattz. Our theme song is composed by Grandmosco Music. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Aliah Funschell. Welcome to the matchup today. I've got some WNBA legends in the house. First, we've got six time All Star, Olympic gold medalists and first overall pick in the nineteen ninety nine WNBA draft, Jamiko hold Squaw with her one of the most prolific coaches in WNBA history, with two WNBA championships, including bringing New York their first ever championship back in twenty twenty four.
00:00:37
Speaker 2: Sandy Brondello, All.
00:00:38
Speaker 1: Right, Shamika and coach Sandy, thank you so much for joining me today.
00:00:42
Speaker 3: How are you guys doing doing great? Thanks for having me on. Excited for this one.
00:00:47
Speaker 4: I'm doing well. Also, I know coach is really doing well after I went yesterday.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Oh no, I actually brought this to show you.
00:00:56
Speaker 1: I the tempo sent me some Marina maybe Bree spices chef Maybrey spice for her All Star campaign.
00:01:05
Speaker 2: But no, we'll wow chen.
00:01:11
Speaker 4: She's cooking in the kitchen. She was cooked.
00:01:13
Speaker 5: She was cooking last night.
00:01:14
Speaker 3: It's always you sleep well. Actually couldn't sleep that well. Usually I sleep well. But also I'll still hot up. I mean, it was an amazing performance. And hey, if she doesn't meet the old statte and there's something wrong.
00:01:25
Speaker 1: So a lot of times I start off this podcast, we match up either strangers or old friends and we try to figure out where they match up.
00:01:32
Speaker 2: But the two of you actually had a really.
00:01:35
Speaker 1: Really special moment on air like a month ago where Shimika you were talking about Sandy and her impact in your life.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: So I would just love to know do you remember.
00:01:45
Speaker 1: The first time you two met and in what capacity and how how was that?
00:01:51
Speaker 4: Oh man, it was probably during mine. We could have met when I was playing USA basketball because I played up so I competed a guess the Australian national team. But I think when I really found out, like who Sandy Brandella was, it was too late because I was probably chasing after the screen when she was playing for the Shop and she was, you know, hot, shooting that basketball, tremendous, tremendous shooter. Sandy was a very competitive. But I really learned, like from my introduction to the WNBA, just how amazing this like Australian players were and how tough they were.
00:02:25
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, yeah, yeah, I can't.
00:02:27
Speaker 3: Like for me, I everyone knew who Shmi call was. I mean she's just slititing, and her reputation preceded her. And when I came into the you know, the W and had the opportunity against to play against each other.
00:02:38
Speaker 5: And I don't think she chased me. I tried to stay away from it.
00:02:42
Speaker 3: Like the thing was, I hated bigger players guarding me, and now you know, she was a big plan.
00:02:47
Speaker 5: I wasn't going to stop her.
00:02:49
Speaker 3: But look, I can just remember just admiring just her game, just helped she was And then you know, obviously got to know her when I took over the San Antonio Silver Stars and you know, and you know see different part.
00:03:00
Speaker 5: Of our journeys there as a coaching player.
00:03:02
Speaker 3: But it's always good to get to know because sometimes you don't get to know that.
00:03:05
Speaker 5: You know in the play the.
00:03:06
Speaker 3: Players that you you have to coach against will play against as much. And and that's really big for me. I love those relationships.
00:03:13
Speaker 1: Right yeah, and before because you both have such great personalities, and before we get into that part of it, to me, Gwat, I know you're new to the analyst world, So can you give me a scouting report on what Sandy was like?
00:03:25
Speaker 2: As a player?
00:03:27
Speaker 4: Oh? Man, I just I just remember like great outside shoot fast off the screens. I mean you really had to like chase her crowd of space and she had bounced you had you had a little get up, you were you were out there. This really went tough. You know, you you were a competitors, so we really had to like, you know, keep an eye on you out there on the court.
00:03:46
Speaker 3: And for me, I mean, you know, she's like six foot one. I remember, just this big guard, like no chance on guarding her. She's just going to be backing me down.
00:03:55
Speaker 4: But you could play out.
00:03:57
Speaker 5: You know, it was great off the dribble.
00:03:58
Speaker 3: You know those mid ranges get to the rams or just back in plays down with their size and strength. I mean that's what I remember. But just a real competitor and a winner. And you know you could see someone that played with a lot of joy out in the court. I think that's what I remember from her. I mean she's a legend.
00:04:15
Speaker 4: Same Sam saying, definitely legend, a legend. This is what this is.
00:04:21
Speaker 2: I know, I love it. I'm like so honored right now because you I love you both.
00:04:25
Speaker 1: But so when you say, any when you started to coach, how did that relation, like, how did you take what you knew going against Sumigua or people like that, and then bring it into then deciding to coach her.
00:04:38
Speaker 2: And you know how did that transition work?
00:04:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, going back to that story, like I started, I retired in two thousand and four after the Olympics and coach was an assistant coach with the San Antonio Silver Stars from two thousand and five and forever grateful for Dan Hues giving me that opportunity. And then in twenty ten, they had this rule. This is how much WNBA has evolved. We had one assistant coach, that's it, and Dan decided to step aside and then all off my husband who's obviously coaching together. And I thought, yeah, this is great opportunity. But in hindsight, and I loved coaching. I love coaching. I love this game. I've been doing it all my life. But in twenty ten, I was pregnant with my second child.
00:05:23
Speaker 5: Do you remember that Shmikah over. I remember.
00:05:25
Speaker 4: I remember, yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker 5: Big, big Bally, and you know, you just think, oh, I can do this. I'm a superwoman.
00:05:32
Speaker 3: So but when I look back, I probably wasn't the right time to become the first, you know, the head coach for the very first time.
00:05:38
Speaker 5: But in the end, like you always take a few experience from all.
00:05:41
Speaker 3: The players coaches that you've been, you know that you played under. But in the end, I wanted to be my authentic self and I am. I think Shmika knew you obviously if you see me on the sideline now. And I don't think I've changed now. I've got more experiences.
00:05:57
Speaker 5: That's a part of the journey.
00:05:58
Speaker 3: So I'm a way better coach now that I was there in my first year and surviving on three hours of sleep every night with one assistant coach.
00:06:05
Speaker 5: But I think the relationship part that doesn't changed because it's so big.
00:06:08
Speaker 3: I think I try and pour into the players because I think, you know, they know that you love and care for them, and we can build these relationships, we can overcome any obstacle. And I think that I really embraced that role here and you know, I think that's still my identity.
00:06:22
Speaker 5: What you see is what you get.
00:06:24
Speaker 3: I think I'm you know, I'm always going to hold myself to high standards. I'm going to hold big you know, I'm not perfect, so but I always striving to be. You know, the players per perfection as myself. And you know, I suppose you know twenty ten, I just yeah, we had a you know, we had a new team, had a lot of new players trying to integrate, and Ruth Riley got injured, and we still had Becky, we had Michelle Snow.
00:06:47
Speaker 5: We had a good, good team, but we did face a.
00:06:49
Speaker 3: Lot of adversity with our with our injuries, and you know, I know we made the playoffs, but in hindsight, we probably should have missed it to get a higher draft pick.
00:06:59
Speaker 5: I got rid of me after twenty ten. Obviously someone didn't.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: Like me there, but that was a part of the journey there, so no hard feelings. I just realized, No, twenty ten was a blur because I had my second child and I traveled with my I went back to work eight days after Crazy was born and traveled with two kids under three.
00:07:19
Speaker 5: Crazy, I am crazy.
00:07:20
Speaker 4: Thank you.
00:07:20
Speaker 5: I can edit that.
00:07:24
Speaker 4: Too too. You're tough, You're tough, Sandy.
00:07:28
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe I thought I was tough, she read and I thought.
00:07:31
Speaker 3: But it still was a great learning experience because you can't if you don't grow unless you're in a situation, isn't it? And then I realized that Okay, I wasn't. I didn't give my best opportunity to be my best because of you know I was. I should have just just took care of being a mum, right right?
00:07:50
Speaker 1: What is something that Sandy saw knew as a player that maybe when you were playing you didn't see in yourself and then she kind of brought that out of you.
00:07:58
Speaker 4: I would say, is you were It was really easy for me to communicate with her. I think sometimes you know, you run into coaches, you can't always express yourself in an open and an open way and honest way.
00:08:11
Speaker 2: You know.
00:08:12
Speaker 4: I felt like if I felt something or wanted to talk about basketball on the court, it was just easy. It was like she was still a player in my eyes, you know, and she got it. Like she was like, okay, all right, you just post up. Then you know, I'm like, but I'm you know, we're running to play, but I'm you know, I'm big.
00:08:27
Speaker 5: I can just to stop.
00:08:29
Speaker 4: And she's like most something, Whereas some coaches, and I was new to the team too, so some coaches may say, oh, you know, if it's not a second and you know, just roll out. But now she's like, make some noise, get the ball. So those little things of having that you know, familiarity, you know, having played a game like really helped me. The communication was very easy.
00:08:49
Speaker 1: And sandy for you to get your flowers on television after all those years, What was it like to hear how much you impacted not just her playing career, but life after.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: Yeah, to be quite honest, it's like just tearing up a little bit, because you know, it's more about, you know, just why do we play this game? It's about the relationships too, and yes, of course we want to win, but how do you impact?
00:09:13
Speaker 5: I always say what kind of legacy you want to leave behind?
00:09:16
Speaker 3: And that's important for me and Shmika and I like, I've I loved coaching her, but you know, I haven't seen her a lot over the race. But you know, for her to to show how much had the impact, it's more like, you know, if I did anything right, I did that right.
00:09:31
Speaker 5: And I want people to.
00:09:32
Speaker 3: Know me as a very you know, someone that really loves and cares for them. And I always want the best, even though I have to hold you know, I try and hold players to high standards only because I know that's what a winning team needs.
00:09:43
Speaker 5: To look like.
00:09:44
Speaker 3: But I embrace those relationships and and you know it's touching because you know, I mean, I think i've I've impacted a lot of players, but when you hear it in this this how I impacted Shmikwo and that's so much respect for and man, no lot. So I was trying not to be too emotional on it, but I was, you know it, you know, I was happy that I made a small impact in your you know, everything that went on at that time.
00:10:13
Speaker 4: Oh, thank you, thank you. Like I said, I carried that with me.
00:10:16
Speaker 2: I was.
00:10:17
Speaker 4: I was shocked at and getting choked up because I just haven't ran into you like I remember once when you were in New York, me and Teresa Edwards ran into each other and I was like, you know what, Tea, we need to go to a game. We need to go pop up on Sandy and them. But we never could coordinate our schedules. And I was like, when I get the chance, I was going to say, you know, see you face to face. I was going to say that, but I think it's it was important because you know, we hear a lot of stories about culture and player relationships, and I just think, you know, for myself, you know, here I am doing the games. Now. A lot of people know my journey because I'm just very outspoken about it. But it was a time in my life where, especially early on being a young player trying to figure it out, I didn't feel like that safe space or time times where I may have told, you know, a culture staff, and I didn't feel like protected when I told Sandy. Also me not being accountable because I'm young trying to figure out things too write. But at that time in San Antonio, I have done. I did like a lot of work and I was able to communicate what I needed And instead of sitting there, you know and having a situation where I'm not the healthiest I could be, I said, all right, I just have to go to the go to my coach and say this is what I need, you know, because I was really struggling. You know, a lot of people don't understand like mental health. You can struggle from different environmental things. For me, waking up in those summers in San Antonio one hundred and two degrees, everything you know, started like really affecting me and like my mental health, and so I needed to really talk to someone, to get to the psychiatrist, to adjust my medication and stuff. And I knew that, and I was like, Okay, let me go to the go to my coach and to the team. And it was just great that she was willing to assist me. She didn't judge me and make it feel awkward. She's like action.
00:12:06
Speaker 1: And I think it's impressive too, because I recently had another episode with mental health advocates and it right now it seems, oh, yeah, you talked about your mental health, no big deal because it's normalized. But ten years ago, fifteen years ago, that wasn't the case.
00:12:22
Speaker 2: And so it does.
00:12:23
Speaker 1: Take a lot of you know, courage to be able to speak up and advocate for yourself, and Sandy for you to meet her with you know, exceeded expectations of you know, what she was looking for, is just amazing.
00:12:36
Speaker 3: I think being a formal player, and you know, when you have to understand the pressure that these young superstars Schmika was a superstar.
00:12:44
Speaker 5: Now I was a pretty good player. I always you.
00:12:47
Speaker 3: Don't understand or the pressures, the pressures that they get from outside, and sometimes it can get lonely. So I know, at the end of my career as a player, I kind of mentored a lot of the young Australian players because I probably I had older ones that mentored me and it felt like a safe space because you have so many highs and lows, and especially when you're less generational talent like Shamik. While there's you have to put your shoes a feet in you know, you put your feet in your shoes.
00:13:15
Speaker 5: Because how hard it can be.
00:13:17
Speaker 3: So it's more just to know someone that cares and then wants to help in that regard because we all go through something. And I think that's how the world's changed, how the WNBA's changed too. Now there's so much more support for that because you know, it's people like Shmik were coming out and sharing their stories.
00:13:32
Speaker 5: That's how change matters.
00:13:34
Speaker 3: And I think over the years we've been able to advocate that it's not about being these players putting them out there to be you guys have to do this physically. You can't show emotions. We're all different, we're all unique. But now that I think all teams now WNBA teams, each individual team has invested in professionals in anything the teams. We have the physical therapists, we have the massage therapists, but we have the psychologists and if we need now there's someone that is a part of the team, and we encourage you know, we encourage all of our pliers to seek help. And it could be for many different areas, and mental health count it, you know. So I think I think we've made great progress, and so I'm happy about that because there is a lot of pressure and now with social media, it gets harder and harder.
00:14:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, a great point. I like that, Sayandy, I remember back in our day beginning of the league. I mean trying to find you know, I remember my time in DC just even trying to find like a therapist, and like talking to the team was sort of like a search, you know, I know, like they had to contact the NBA to see if anyone had any resources there because also the team it was something new, so they thought, okay, they have to protect us. They just can't send us to anyone, you know. So everybody was trying to figure it out. But now everything has gotten to the top level, rightist. I remember, like, can I need a massage therapist? Everybody's looking at me. You're like, what you have to pay for that? In college, in college at Tennessee, we had someone we had someone with our team, so it was it was a growing process, you know, first one a leave, first started out. That's why I'm just so happy. I'm sure like Sana you're in it. I'm just so happy what the league is. You know, all of our hard work has like paid off. I have a young daughter. I have a six year old son and a four year old daughter, and just seeing her excitement of seeing all these players and some girly you know, some some very powerful whatever you like you can pick, and my daughters is in front of the television clapping all the time.
00:15:35
Speaker 5: I love that.
00:15:36
Speaker 3: That's what it's about, isn't it. You know, the impact that we can have on the next generation. What kind of leg you say we old, not just it's individuals in the league.
00:15:43
Speaker 5: So it's pretty special.
00:15:44
Speaker 1: Yeah. Where do you see room for improvement when it comes to advocating for the players or the mental health?
00:15:50
Speaker 2: I mean, I know social.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Media it's like pretty much unregulated, But where do you think there could be room for improvement?
00:15:56
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's always room for improvement, isn't it.
00:15:58
Speaker 3: It's making sure that these players are given the very best and they have the confidentiality to go to whatever they need obviously, you know we've now in the CBA, you know, you know, you can you know, IVS, f F treatment, everything like that. It's taking in what the whole female woman looks like and support in what area they need. So I think, you know, credit to the w n b A and the Players Association. They've done a great job of giving the players what they need and in terms of improvement, you know, I think we've made huge steps. I think we're in a great spot now and I probably need to speak to the players what more we could do.
00:16:35
Speaker 5: But I think every.
00:16:36
Speaker 3: Team is always evolving about Okay, how were us these players to do this? And they are the product, so how do we make them to be the best product. So it's just been you know, sourcing whatever help we need, that's what.
00:16:48
Speaker 5: We have to source.
00:16:49
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, we're we're a billion dollar sport now and you know, I think they're the owner. We have ownerships that are invested in providing and giving the best experience and making all of out Frances always as world class.
00:17:02
Speaker 4: I know, it's beautiful. I mean I had the opportunity to go to the do a mental health program and go to every w NBA team. I can't remember what season that was, maybe maybe it was like twenty and sixteen and he had me go. So it was great starting to see this change. You know, some teams, like the Minnesota at the time had the most amazing facility, like they had Kombuchka. It was like wow, you know, and then no, it was really fancy. And then I got to you know, I got to see teams that were like still like at a community college, teams that you know, when we took the meeting it was like in the back of a closet out in Atlanta. So it makes you appreciate I'm serious where we are now and like to you know, I always say, people want to see what people want to be seeing valued and heard, Right, that's what belonging is all about. Now these women are this CBA is like their value. They're heard like like you said, total being person. They're hitting it from every angle. So you know, just keep shooting up. That's what we want to do. Keep shooting ahead.
00:18:14
Speaker 1: This season, the thirtieth season, there's just so much joy and celebration, especially with all the players I did pave the way for in order to have a CBA like this, So Sandy, I'll start with you. What are you most proud of over the progress that the league has made over the last thirty years?
00:18:36
Speaker 5: So many things.
00:18:37
Speaker 3: I mean, I first, you know, I've been twenty seven of the thirty years involved. I set out the first year, wasn't involved, and then I set out the Olympic Ears when I.
00:18:46
Speaker 5: Was still playing.
00:18:49
Speaker 3: But I love being a part of this and I love seeing the evolutions. So for me, it's you know, in the beginning, I was drafted by the Detroit Shock and I had an amazing experience. I just love bask I earned nineteen thousand dollars first year.
00:19:04
Speaker 5: Wow, that's it. But you know, at that time, it's just you know, that was just where we're at.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: And you know, I played overseas the supplement that I played the Australian team playing all year round.
00:19:13
Speaker 5: I just wanted to play against.
00:19:14
Speaker 3: The bear so not to be to like to succeed, you know, to challenge myself against the very best, and you know, I kind of loved it.
00:19:21
Speaker 4: You know.
00:19:21
Speaker 5: It was always about you know, you know, just competing.
00:19:24
Speaker 3: And but I think the evolution we had some years where I remember Phoenixmoker, we had thirteen thousand and then it kind of went off a little bit, but then the excitement came back up again. I just think the owners, it really does start with the investment at the top, and that starts with the ownership. And you see, now I don't think any owner is there's no millionaires.
00:19:45
Speaker 5: They're all billionaires right over these teams.
00:19:47
Speaker 3: Now, so you kind of I always say, I say when I was with an I say, you know, the difference between a billionaire owner.
00:19:54
Speaker 5: And a millionaire owner.
00:19:55
Speaker 3: And but now it's like, you know, everyone, if you don't like, we haven't got our practice yet, but we will.
00:20:01
Speaker 5: Be building one. It's just it's something you just have to have.
00:20:05
Speaker 3: So it just means And we talked about all the support that the players have given here, because if we want them to put this amazing product on, we have to give them whatever they need to be at the best. And the coaching staffs get better. You know, there's more experience. We've got data scientists, you name it. You know, we've got international scouts.
00:20:24
Speaker 5: Just the growth of the league.
00:20:25
Speaker 3: That makes me really proud because obviously there's a lot of Australians in this league, but we have the most internationals ever and the CBA has helped that because everyone loves playing for their country, you know, I mean I sat out two years because the playing for my country meant a lot. But now they're getting supplemented because we're a long time retired, aren't we. So it's my you give them the money, they will come. So we truly are you know, this is this season will be the best players ever to play in the league. But the players before we had some great talent. You know, we had less teams, but it was competitive. But Lisa Leslie, you're under Griffith, you know, Cheryl Smoots since you could go on and on. It was tough, like you know, yes, yeah, we have a lot of teams. We have great talent, but back in those early days it was hard to win because we had the USA team and you know, you could have three great teams for them, you know, the Australian team was here basically, and so I think it was really competitive there, but we didn't have the visibility, you know, social media. While somemertimes social media is hard, it has been great, you know, because of the visibility and we've got sponsors just wanting to get on board. We've got NBA guys that are showing interest and attended games.
00:21:37
Speaker 5: All of that matter.
00:21:38
Speaker 3: We've got famous people like in New York sitting it's hey.
00:21:43
Speaker 5: You know, well they're going, so let's go.
00:21:45
Speaker 3: Because I always say, if someone goes to one game, they're going to fall in love because they're going to see how talent these female athletes are. And that makes me very I'm very proud of what we started, even though it was great back then, We've just got more resources, We've got more money, got more visibility, and that's why, you know, WNBA is a real movement now and our goal is to make sure we're going to keep growing.
00:22:07
Speaker 5: The expansions coming. So it's fun. I think, you know, we're getting the flowers that we deserved, and we deserved them back then. Shmikua, right, we had to pave the way for now, and I love that, like Alicia Clark fought for the.
00:22:22
Speaker 3: Former players to get some kind of payment because they did. Without those ones before us, they wouldn't be here now. And you know, the USA basketball women's team was just unbeatable, still are, but you know, they paved the way so because they became household names, and that's where it started it's a joy for me. I still have so much passion, like the first day I played a game to even now coaching, Like my passion hasn't waned at all. And I'm just actually more excited because so we can keep growing this amazing sport.
00:22:50
Speaker 5: And these players become their own brand. How cool is Oh?
00:22:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I loved that we can learn that we can learn about their like who they are. You know, we have opportunity to learn personalities. You know, they're fashion what they do in their free times. Like it's it's a full time job keeping up with all these amazing young ladies. Yeah, and I get to see who has I realized the Atlanta Dream has one of the best tiktoks talk. But back to what you're saying. So I know, like you said, I know the Australian players. How many Australians offhand? Can you think how many are in the w n b A right now?
00:23:25
Speaker 3: There's about ten of them? Eleven maybe eleven? Yeah, eleven some of her dps. But yeah, back in the early days, that's his We had a little mold back in Yeah, yeah.
00:23:34
Speaker 4: It was, it was really big. It was really a lot. But I bring it up because I feel like the frenchees might be catching.
00:23:42
Speaker 5: Like heady caught us?
00:23:45
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? I know I'm and and everybody acts like this. On my side, everybody's like, man, you know the French player, I was like everybody has known for years, like like the Friends had some amazing athletes for years. It was, you know, it was like, are you going to play in France?
00:24:02
Speaker 2: Oh?
00:24:02
Speaker 4: You know they really play because they're so super athletics. So it's it's been awesome now seeing this this international emersience, you know, it's it's been great. Yeah.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: No, like Marines like one leggage shot, like people are like talking about that all the time. But no, even with social media as a w NBA content creator, it like drives me crazy. But it's also endearing when people are like, oh my gosh, I didn't even know this player existed, and I'm like, yeah, well, if you love this player, you would have loved the other players like and so I think it's it's really cool to be able to storytell about players that maybe didn't get the social media attention back then.
00:24:40
Speaker 2: But shmik, well, I'll start with you on this one.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: Was there some growing pains of growing the league where it's like, oh, shoot, this is this is bigger now. It's not like back in the day when we could go under the radar. Like, have you had any growing pains with the with the league's growth.
00:24:56
Speaker 4: Any growing pains have I had? I don't. I don't. I can't personally have any growing pains, you know if I look at it from like just me assessing the league and I don't work for the league. I just think it was just it was tough. It was tough, you know, I won't say it's tough, but watching you know, the players fight for themselves. I love that, Like that was exciting. They stood ten toles down, they did not waiver, they did not separate, And that's tough because a lot of times when people give you a little and you you don't think, look, our league has a really go It's no way that players should be making from what I retire with just twenty thousand dollars more, you know what I'm saying. It's a lot more like you said, sponsorships and social media. So I'm just glad that they understood their value and at their work value and work that was that was something I was just like, go go go because a lot of times they try to divide, divide and conquer any type of business. That's what happens, you know. And we also heard about you know this NBA negotiations in the past, how they've gotten to one player unfortunately helped them waiver the thought. But like you said, you mentioned Alicia and Nka the first thing when I saw her at the Final four this year and I was just like mega, like congratulations and you were awesome. She goes, no, thank you, thank you for you know what you've done for this league. I tried to really fight for you guys. We tried to really fight for you guys. So last game that we had, what was that Wednesday, and we did the doubleheader in USA, you know, we're talking Amy and she's like, you know what are these younger players going up to Necca and saying thank you? Because you know Naka and all the young ladies that fought, like she really helped change things with her voice and drive her passion. You know, that's miss time one hundred. Now you know she she fought for this, you know, and so and I had to explain to her, like when you're in it, sometimes you just don't realize the impact even though you're receiving the benefit. You know, she's amazing. So we actually gave her our game ball, you know. I mean, I mean, she hit a game where awesome, but just because of her impact, we want to give her her flowers. You know, all the women that were a part of it, because it was tough. I remember running into Kathy too that same weekend and I was like, so, Kathy, how do you feel? Because that's just me. I got to ask the questions. She was like, I'm exhausted, I'm happy that's over. And I'm like, I'm sure you were. Because it's hard. It's hard to do high level business, you know, Sandy, you know you guys know mm hmmm.
00:27:24
Speaker 2: And with all the eyeballs, it's crazy. I would like to pivot a.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: Little bit to coaching and some x's and o's. Sandy, you coached me for one day when I signed a one day contract with the New York Liberty Media.
00:27:39
Speaker 5: No, it was.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: It was the cutest thing ever.
00:27:41
Speaker 1: Brian, who does pr for the Liberty, he had this like brainchild to sign the media to one day training camp contracts and we had to go through a workout with the coaching staff, and Sandy actually like to show out and she won knockout, so we didn't stand a chance. But I mean, your coaching style is just so amazing. And I mean, right now New York City is buzzing because of the Knicks, but you were actually the one to help accomplish something that the city needed to see, and that was a New York Liberty Championship.
00:28:15
Speaker 5: So just.
00:28:19
Speaker 1: Going but I mean so many emotions going into that, but also the x's and o's of you're dealing with some superstars. How do you get them to all gel together to be a championship team when you do have a big three and they all you know, can produce.
00:28:37
Speaker 2: How do you manage a team like that and produce a championship?
00:28:42
Speaker 4: Yeah?
00:28:42
Speaker 5: Look, you know I really embraced that role.
00:28:44
Speaker 3: I loved it, you know, and obviously finally winning a championship for that city in that organization, you know, is so special and will always be because we'll always be the first. But you know, I suppose I've learned over the years of what a successful team looks like, and starting with the Australian team, and we really right from the get go, I always focus on the culture.
00:29:04
Speaker 5: So what's a winning culture look like. So we do a lot of that.
00:29:06
Speaker 3: You know, we just don't go in and just say these are all individuals. We need individuals to come together to play as a team. And you know that started with the opals as a player, and then when I started, you know, as a coach, I just kept that. Like Diana Trusse here, it really started back then. Like I say, when your best players buy in, greatness can really happen. And that year in twenty fourteen, when we did win with Diana, we were unstoppable.
00:29:28
Speaker 5: No one was stopping us. And you know it was we had a great team.
00:29:32
Speaker 3: But still, you know, their egos to get involved, but they wanted to win.
00:29:36
Speaker 5: I would say, celebrate your teammate. You know we do it. If we all do, we.
00:29:39
Speaker 3: Can all sacrifice a little bit of our game, which Diana did that game that year too, because the year before she was the best scorer in the league. She's one of the most amazing scorers ever. But it was more she had to sacrifice a little bit of her scoring. But she that year she was the most highest assist in the league's you know, and in the end, it's just look like what's it mean If you sacrifice a little bit there and we do, there's great things can happen.
00:30:01
Speaker 5: So I went into the New York. We obviously the first year we learn a lot.
00:30:04
Speaker 3: We had a young team, and then we were able to get some assets and Jonathan Cold did a great job of getting you know, Brianna Stewart coming in and Courtney Vana Slut and John coul Jones to build around with Sabrina and you know, we still like Benigel Andie's some good young talent there too. And it was all about everyone has to sacrifice a little bit, you know, but everything it's actually going to make.
00:30:24
Speaker 5: It more special.
00:30:26
Speaker 3: And it does because you know, ultimately we're competitors, aren't. Where we play a team sport and winning, Yeah, we know how hard it is to win.
00:30:34
Speaker 5: But everyone can get onto the same page. It's great.
00:30:36
Speaker 3: Now, that doesn't mean it's always easy. People go, oh, you guys look so.
00:30:40
Speaker 5: Connected, but there's hois and lows.
00:30:42
Speaker 3: Throughout every team. It doesn't even matter. It's how you handle that. And that's why I always say, you hear me speak. I don't get too high or too low because it solds nothing definitely, So I stay consistent in how I lead, and I'm very I communicate, you know, the relate. The communication is really big for me. I'm very honest, but I'm I'm always the biggest you.
00:31:01
Speaker 5: Know, supporter as well.
00:31:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I want, you know, I want them to be the best that they can be, truly do and that's.
00:31:07
Speaker 5: A part of it.
00:31:08
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, you know, obviously it was close near the end, but we found a way to win. So it starts with that building and culture. But culture, it starts every like.
00:31:16
Speaker 5: I do it in Toronto too.
00:31:18
Speaker 3: We always go, we revisit it, like every ten days or when we can, we do a little culture session and it's just a connection piece, you know, when you can have all different nationalities or players and come together and form this one winning culture, it's it's pretty special.
00:31:34
Speaker 5: And we had that.
00:31:35
Speaker 3: But look, it helps when your best players are humble superstars. Yeah and true, true, Yeah, that makes my job easier. They out of Stewart, Dina, trusty. I mean, how lucky was I. It is a privilege for me to coach. But I learned as much from them as they would have learnt from me. And but to be able to do something together and for this city was really special.
00:31:57
Speaker 4: People need to understand like sports is like such a microcosm of society. It's like we are from all different backgrounds. I'm going to Poland you didn't played all We didn't played all over the world. You got players international coming and it may sometimes be a language issue we're trying to figure but basketball is a universal language and sisterhood it becomes a universal language and you just try to figure it out and like help each other, and it's just just a special feeling as you start to see that grow, you know, the season planet like someone that doesn't necessarily they may understand a little bit about the language, but they understand basketball. You know, you had your teammate that that you're guiding in America or they're guiding you in another country, and as they start to pick it up, you feel proud and it's just watching that sisterhood and relationship building is very important.
00:32:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it takes the right coach, and I do want to talk about building an expansion team, but before then, I don't know how much you're on social media, but people love the relation ship that you had have still with Sabrina and I to your point earlier, I would love to know a little bit more about like the technicalities of coaching someone like her, because she comes in building a franchise around her, one of the best shooters in the league. But she did have a weakness early in her career of her defense, and through the last few years of you coaching her, her defense significantly improved. And so how do you go about coaching a superstar? And Sabrina never seems to have an ego. I love Sabrina and covering her, but how do you go to coach a superstar where it's like, look like I know you have everyone in your ear telling you how amazing you are, but here's how to really really improve? And so how did you go about helping her improve on her defense?
00:33:44
Speaker 5: Look, I think.
00:33:45
Speaker 3: Honesty, showing film, showing analytics. But look, I think that they're great like you. So they come out of college and I mean, this is a generational talent, Sabrina and just a winner the way that she can shoot the ball. But you know, there's always who's the complete player you can always she's always like even over the years, we tried to make her better, you know, on the court, on the offensive vend as well too.
00:34:10
Speaker 5: And I think we did. We sped up her shot.
00:34:12
Speaker 3: You know her training, how she trained, we she probably trained like not in the right way the first year.
00:34:17
Speaker 5: We try to change it that but then she puts the.
00:34:19
Speaker 3: Hard work in and she has this mentality and I think that helps too.
00:34:23
Speaker 5: She's had always had that.
00:34:24
Speaker 3: But I think it's just building the relationships, having honest communication.
00:34:28
Speaker 5: Holding her accountable in front of the team too.
00:34:30
Speaker 3: I know at times I was hard on her because I always I always say I believe in you more than you believe in yourself. So it's just sometimes like people tell someone you're not a great defender, that you believe it, but now but I know, like we're going to help you, but you could. You could be a really good defender if you do you know, X, Y and B and and may not. It might always be perfect because there's great players, but knowing that there's a team behind it. So I think it's just a knowing that, hey, you got we don't want you to be perfect, We just want you to go out work really hard, and then just showing her and you know when maybe when you know, all players to have a little bit of a rest here and there, but just pushing her and those relationships matter to me.
00:35:08
Speaker 5: I think you know, Sabrina, they is like shmik or they.
00:35:11
Speaker 3: Carry so much pressure. Yeah, you talk about the Caitlin Clarks of this world and all that. There's so much pressure on them and it's more like just got to show them a little bit of love too, and you know, but you still want them to be the best version of themselves.
00:35:23
Speaker 5: And that's my job. That's my job as a coach, isn't it.
00:35:25
Speaker 3: So if I don't do that, I'm not If I don't hold everyone accountable, then.
00:35:30
Speaker 5: I'm not doing my job to the best of ability. And I try to be fair, you know. And obviously the superstars get along a leash. That's just how it has. But you know, Marie, if you've got Marina in here, like I.
00:35:40
Speaker 3: Think she's playing her best basketball, but I'm still on her about her defense.
00:35:44
Speaker 5: You know, I'm like, you a complain better.
00:35:46
Speaker 3: Defense because I know you can, and that's our goal is to get in it to there. That doesn't meant but I believe in her one hundred and fifty percent. And last night was you know, I just was the most amazing experience.
00:35:57
Speaker 5: Out of memory.
00:35:59
Speaker 2: Are here?
00:36:00
Speaker 4: What I want to know is I want to know? Was like, she tied a record for fifty three?
00:36:06
Speaker 5: Why didn't I get her?
00:36:09
Speaker 4: And that?
00:36:10
Speaker 5: But you know I had I apologized after that. You know why I didn't know what the record was? No one, No one told me, but they told me the record for three point shots was ten made.
00:36:24
Speaker 3: So that's why I was hunting threes at the end and then then during it and I'm like, why isn't someone telling me because I would have went for too.
00:36:35
Speaker 5: But then but list at least she tired it so it felt bad.
00:36:38
Speaker 3: I'm like, that don't mean great, But she's like, no, it was because we were we were in the fourth quarter.
00:36:44
Speaker 5: It wasn't much defense.
00:36:45
Speaker 3: We were just trying to get her going and get her you know, and our players, So don't.
00:36:50
Speaker 5: Worry I apologize. I'm like, am idiot, Like someone needs to tell me that.
00:36:53
Speaker 3: I know.
00:36:55
Speaker 2: That's a great question.
00:36:57
Speaker 5: And she was tired.
00:36:58
Speaker 4: She wouldn't come out.
00:37:00
Speaker 3: You wanted to come out earlier, and I'm like, no, no, no, you got to stay in there because I was going, you need one more?
00:37:05
Speaker 5: Three?
00:37:08
Speaker 4: Are they gonna do they have shirts or something? Talking about money? Maybry Is that really yeah, I'm sure. Well, yeah, yeah, the shirt, I'm that's cool.
00:37:17
Speaker 3: We'll send it, We'll send it. I'm sure that was money. You know, her reputation procedes her. She's yet mayby, She's she's been bowling out this year.
00:37:26
Speaker 5: So really really proud of her.
00:37:35
Speaker 1: So, coach Sandy, you go from coaching like a Big three slash four to then now having an expansion team. That's kind of like starting from scratch. So I know that you always have the same values and and everything as a coach, but does anything change having to, you know, now coach a team that's basically a startup.
00:37:58
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably a little bit. You're probably a little bit more teaching.
00:38:02
Speaker 3: You know, you have to be more detail oriented, and I love that part, just getting back to teaching the game process driven. Because we had five first time w NBA players here. We've also behind Minnesota because they have Collier and you know, obviously the young check player got a cl and they've got.
00:38:18
Speaker 5: Some injuries there.
00:38:18
Speaker 3: They were the second team with the most you know, games missed through injuries. We had so many injuries. I was playing players out of position in the beginning, but working it out, but we were still broilding it's more about I wanted to take this job and because of the challenge.
00:38:33
Speaker 5: Of doing something different.
00:38:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've coached these you know, super teams, they would say, and that was fun. I absolutely loved it, really good. But doing something in a new country intrigued me. How we can grow this game here. But doing something from the ground up. Now, I wish the CBA was done a little quicker. It would have been a little bit more different. But building, you know, just starting from the foundation, and like no one, we're not expected to win a championship, but we still have expectations to be the most competitive we can be and continue to grow. And I think we've had some you know, you know, the top teams have shown what we're not where we're at, but our injuries have heard us. We haven't had a one game with our full group, and we won't for you know, a few more weeks here. But it's still a great challenge because the players are all buying in and trying to do the best and keep learning because you know, we've got some great pieces. So I've been really really encouraged with some of the players that we do have and how we can can continue to build and you know Kicky Rice is going to be a star in this in this this league, and so unfortunate her injury and that Britney's sites was having her best season in the league too.
00:39:41
Speaker 5: Just make adjustments, you know.
00:39:42
Speaker 3: It is what it is, the injuries, and but I've enjoyed I've enjoyed it all. Yeah it's hard at times, but it's hard every single year.
00:39:51
Speaker 5: But I'm enjoying it.
00:39:52
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I'm happy Brittany. Brittany got the opportunity because I've been saying for years when I watched her, she isn't one of the probably athletically probably top five as far as the athlete. I mean, she just can turn it on. Amazing, amazing athlete. I'm glad she's getting this opportunity, Like, just have a major role into showcase that talent. She's been playing great.
00:40:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have a slim seasoning too.
00:40:16
Speaker 2: Shout out to them. Yes, should go for you though a new role this season.
00:40:25
Speaker 1: What made you decide to step in front of the camera and to give all this ball knowledge that you've been holding on to How what made you decide to just tap into this side of yourself?
00:40:37
Speaker 4: This is this is a major question. You know, I'm grateful that even though I chose to take a different path, I'm grateful that always, you know, opportunities, you know, people still always ask me to do things, and I was just in my flow raising my kids. So I'm like, no, I like my summers off because I really operate on a college schedule pretty much, you know, because I'm at the Companies in a Universe, summer is a kind of chill. And it was when it was presented to me, I was like, well, I don't know.
00:41:06
Speaker 5: But then I got.
00:41:07
Speaker 4: To opportunity to see how this thing was growing and how I didn't have I just had to show up as my authentic self. I don't want to do anything where I have to be somebody else, and that was expressed to me. They were like, come as you are, say which you know you want to say about the game, and just be you. So that made me change. What was kind of funny was I was at the Final four and I ran into Renee Montgomery, who is my teammate on USA, and I go talk to her. She goes, first question, what made you? What made you say yes? And I and I told her a little bit. She goes, yeah, because they were saying if you didn't say yes, I was gonna have to call you and try to convince you to do so everyone had in their mind that I was gonna say no, and you know, it's just feeling good about it.
00:41:51
Speaker 3: You.
00:41:52
Speaker 4: I mean, who's gonna who's gonna say no to working with like Lisa Kearney, l Duncan you know I get to also be a teammate with Tamika Kitchens, you know, one of my good friends in college. So I'm just a great group of people and they just have fun talking about a game we love. Like that's like the easiest job ever, right.
00:42:13
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:42:13
Speaker 1: No, it's it's so fun to see you both just thriving and like having you two together to have an at length conversation and just about all of your knowledge and your relationship has been like so cool. So my final question for each of you, So I bring this up a lot, but I am a musical theater nerd and I love Wicked and like the being changed for good whole like thing.
00:42:36
Speaker 2: So how have each of you changed the other for good?
00:42:41
Speaker 5: Great question?
00:42:42
Speaker 4: Man?
00:42:42
Speaker 2: Thank you?
00:42:43
Speaker 3: You know for me, you meet so many you know, as a play you have so many teammates and you know you connect, you connect with all of them, but is there something that you're really close.
00:42:53
Speaker 5: It's just like as a as.
00:42:54
Speaker 3: A coach, you know, you find you have this little connections and you know, I think that just the connections, you know, when just Sumika was quiet but kind of understood because I became mentoring Lauren Jackson and you know, all those help you know, he's seeing this is so hard, like trying to help them Connor, you like, I want them to thrive.
00:43:16
Speaker 5: And I think that's the impact, just the human element of that connection.
00:43:20
Speaker 3: I think that's how, you know, showing that actually do care like and it comes from the heart. You know, I do care, especially with you know that someone can come to me with something so hard, but no they can trust me. It just knows, you know something, if everyone thinks I'm a shit coach, I'm actually a great human being, you know, and that you know, I want to be known, want my legacy be really good coach, but even better human being. And I think that I think that's how you know, that's just that touching and obviously more so now because I didn't know the effect that it really had on her.
00:43:54
Speaker 5: But you know, I think that's that's important for me, and sometimes we miss that.
00:43:59
Speaker 3: We're always chasing money or you know, the success, but sometimes it's about the people in the relationships that you have.
00:44:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, but so sweet From that, From that, from that interaction, I think that it just made me just a little more more empathetic, kindness, just understanding, because like when you're when you're going through such like in your head, it's like a sped up version. But I was struggling with so many thoughts, so many different things, and when she was like so kind in that moment trying to help me, it just slowed every thing down. And I was like, oh man, this this makes me feel good. It's like I feel safe, you know. So yeah, that's how when I when I meet these kids or people just kind of like struggling with different things, it just really I tell myself to slow down and be present, to listen, not to judge. And so I've just been able to form and help so many people because I've been just blessed with those traits. But I got that from you. So I was like, man, this is this is a part of who I am. A big part was that that small interactions Sandy. I mean, it's crazy what you said. We have not really seen each other but almost sixteen years. I looked at Ride and them I said, guys, I've been hearing this with me sixteen sixteen years. It's crazy, And to let it out. I was just like, Wow, felt good to tell you that. So much love to you, Sandy for real.
00:45:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it. You know.
00:45:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're amazing human being and I love that. You know, you're helping people because that's in that, that's what we're in. I just want people to be the best version and help women, you know, have a you know, if we all could be kind to each.
00:45:34
Speaker 5: Other, that the world would be a special place, wouldn't it.
00:45:38
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Yeah, for sure. But last thing, I'm really happy. It's not bad that Toronto's one of my favorite cities. I know, you love it like a cleaner New York. I mean, you're not thinking it New York, but Toronto, Toronto, Toronto is I love I love it. I was telling my wife about I'm like, oh my goodness, I used to go there like all the time. Last time I was there was like three years ago. This is a vibe as we're.
00:46:03
Speaker 3: Saying we need to come and visit anytime. We'll go to the restaurants here amazing. The vibe around the city, I like, it's very diverse, so it really reminds me of Australia so a lot, and they love their sports.
00:46:15
Speaker 5: So yeah, you guys always welcome. We can go visit. These at the restaurants here are just amazing.
00:46:21
Speaker 2: I love that.
00:46:22
Speaker 4: Okay, and tell Mina tell Monica, I said, hello, awesome, I haven't talked to Monica the gea Monica deem Monica.
00:46:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, different hat on now, but send your regards okay, thank you.
00:46:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you to so much for joining me. I also need to make a trip out to Toronto to see to see a game in person. But I appreciate you both so much and I loved everything about this conversation, so thank you both.
00:46:47
Speaker 5: Appreciate it, Thanks for having me on. Great to see you all.
00:46:50
Speaker 4: Right much love y'all be saying.
00:46:52
Speaker 2: Good to see you too.
00:46:58
Speaker 1: The Matchup with a Leah is an iHeart Woman's sports production produced by Britney Brown and Rodney Brown of Barbara Gene Productions. Supervising producer is Kaylin West at REALM. Associate producer is Amayah Brathwaite. Talent booking by Melissa Chosid and Deirdre Dodd, posted by me Aleah Funshell. Our executive producers are Molly Barton, Jerry Carita, Grace Fuz and Jesse Kattz. Our theme song is composed by Grandmosco Music. Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts
