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Welcome to Gaining Grid.
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I'm Peter Royce.
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America's story has never been an easy walk.
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It's been shaped by people who took risks, stood their ground, and kept going when the outcome was anything but certain.
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Today I'm joined by Professor Bob Allison of Suffolk University, a historian and author who brings that story to life.
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We'll explore the grit that helped build this country and what it can teach us about courage, leadership, and our own hard roads.
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Professor Bob Ellison, welcome and thank you for agreeing to share your knowledge and passion for our incredible uh legacy in history and celebrating our 250th anniversary this year.
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Thank you, Peter, and thank you for what you've been doing to show that history.
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Could you tell us a little bit about yourself, Professor?
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I teach history at Suffolk University in Boston, also in the Harvard Extension School.
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And for about 30 years I was fortunate to live in South Boston, which is of course the home of the Dorchester Heights monument to the first American victory in the war for independence.
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And that's how I first uh became aware of your passion for history was around Dorchester Heights, a remarkable place.
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It is the victory that makes it clear that the Americans can win this war against the world's greatest military power.
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What is it about the American character?
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Because these folks said we're going to rise up, we've no idea how we're going to run it in the aftermath, but we're going to do this thing, we're going to do it now, and we're going to make it happen.
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And the other things we can figure out.
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Some would see that as confidence.
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We Americans would and do.
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Some would see it as bravado, and some would see it as idiotic, as the King of England didn't say that, but that's kind of his his leaning.
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Do we still maintain that 250 years later?
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Is that still in our character, the ability to take on more than we can chew and figure parts of it out?
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I certainly hope so.
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Because I think that is the essential thing that has made the country prosper for 250 years, is this ability not waiting for someone else, but simply doing it.
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This is something Alexis de Toqueville noted in the 1830s in his Democracy in America, that they're not waiting for the government, that Americans they see a problem in their neighborhood, in their town, will just simply get together and try to solve it.
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William Martin, the novelist, wrote a novel about New England, which is about we get up in the morning, we go to work, we solve our problems.
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So that is, I hope, still part of our character and an ability to figure out how we can solve something.
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And this is the problem we face.
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That is, we're not looking for creating a utopia or some grand scheme that is going to solve all problems, but this is the immediate one.
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This is what we need to do.
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And how do we go from point A to point B to solve whatever problem seems insoluble?
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And we have solved quite a few over the course of 250 years.
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Not really solved by government, but simply by individuals realizing we need to do something.
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And this is something you do see at the time of the revolution.
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One of my favorite anecdotes is of a historian in Massachusetts, sometime in the middle of the 19th century, hearing that in his town there's a man who answered the call at Lexington on the April 19th.
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So he wants to know why did this guy go?
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Yeah.
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Now an old man he goes to see.
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He says, You were at April 19th.
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You marched off to Lexington and Concord.
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He says, Yes, I did.
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Well, what was it?
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Was it the Stamp Act that got you inspired?
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He says, Well, I don't think the stamps ever were unloaded.
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Was it the Tea Act?
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He says, I never drank tea.
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Was it the intolerable act?
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He says, I never heard of them.
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Well, this exhausts the historian because those are the reasons he knew.
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These guys marched off, and now this guy has said he hadn't heard of them, didn't think that happened.
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Well, what was it then?
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And the man said, We had always governed ourselves.
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They weren't going to allow us to do that.
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We could not let that happen.
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So it is the revolution is really triggered, not with this idea, let's create the ideal society.
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But here, someone is going to prevent us from building the kind of society we want, or create living in the kind of world we want.
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And whatever world it is, it's messy, it's complicated.
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It's one that has worked.
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And when the Constitution was created, I mean, some Franklin gives a speech where he says that our enemies are waiting to hear that we're meeting again only for the purpose of cutting one another's throats.
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Henry Clinton, who's one of the British generals, says that the best thing we can do, this is like in 1777 or 78, when things have started, and now seems like the Americans aren't going to be as easily defeated as the British wanted.
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The best thing we can do, he says, pull all of our forces to Florida and Canada and watch.
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And the people in between will spend the next 10 years killing each other because that's what they do.
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And it is something.
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Americans do fight among themselves.
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We fight among ourselves a lot.
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But we still, each of us has this idea of what it is we're trying to do and which we do require the cooperation of others.
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And that is the way the system has worked.
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I think it's a beautiful way to put it.
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We've always trusted in the end destination.
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We disagree in how to get there.
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So let's dive into the characters.
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Does Washington need this revolution?
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He's an extraordinarily wealthy man.
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What in the name of all that's good would possess a man so wealthy and so well born to that society to gamble it all?
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What w was there a moment do you think, or a couple of moments that stand out in the conversion of George Washington?
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That is a terrific question.
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He could have had a life, as many other Virginians did, as a successful planter, respected in the community who will periodically send him to the House of Burgesses.
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But you can see the people in the neighborhood also make him do other things, a vestryman, other things.
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It always seems like they're tapping Washington.
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And he's not someone who goes to the House of Burgesses and gives speeches.
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Thomas Jefferson says he never heard Washington speak in the House of Burgesses.
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But when he spoke in committees, people listened because they saw he had judgment.
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Washington does see the way things are going with the British rule.
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In January of 1776, 75, the town of Norfolk is burned by the British.
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What will happen if we don't do something?
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This is really the big question.
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It's something that Ralph Waldo Emerson really gets at in his Conquered Hymn, these heroes who dared to die and leave their children free.
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Washington is thinking about the future.
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And what happens if we don't take a stand now?
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And once he does, he realizes he is in.
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Because what he wants is independence, not just for him, but for all Americans.
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As he will say later in life, where each can sit under his own vine and fig tree and none can make him afraid.
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That is really the goal of this.
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So George Washington seems to because he's human.
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He is a man at the end of the day.
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But at some point in his journey, he does seem to transcend into a role, an iconic role that weathers the storms and temptations of civil war, because that was a great possibility.
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Is that an important moment for him where he realizes the symbolic and the importance of symbolism and leadership and war?
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Washington loved theater.
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And he understands he is playing a role.
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It's not simply playing a role, and I've never been able to be an actor.
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Yeah.
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So there is something about it.
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You also have to have something to back this up.
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And he really imbibed this and understood the importance of what he was doing and is very sensitive to it.
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And the fact that he and you're right, he's a man, he's a human.
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But he does try to transcend that.
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And one of his real accomplishments is mastering his temper.
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He has written down these Jesuit rules for behavior, which he has really works on.
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And they mentioned him swearing for a half an hour over the situation he's gotten into.
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That is one of about only three or four episodes where we know he lost his temper.
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And he did have one.
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But he understood that's not the way you get people to do things or accomplish things by getting angry or showing people that you are.
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You really have to control that.
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You control yourself first.
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Again, he loved theater, and one of his favorite plays was Joseph Addison's play Cato about a noble Roman.
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He's part of the conspiracy against Caesar, and he winds up actually dying in this.
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And um, but one of the lines Washington liked the most is we cannot guarantee victory, but we can deserve it.
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So is he is he popular or more respected?
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That's a very good question.
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I think it is both.
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I don't think you can underestimate the connection people will have with him, those who understand him.
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And I think it's the fact that he in some ways he does seem like a plaster figure.
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He's some a demigod, he is called, but he is, as you said earlier, a man.
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And I think part of the um attraction is he shows the possibilities.
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And that is um it's one of the things that makes him a fascinating character, even though a marble figure isn't that interesting.
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But you get beneath the surface and you see what is happening there.
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It's what really what makes him continue to have uh staying power because it's the character we all to which we all would aspire.
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But that's probably what Washington would have wanted.
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We are going about our business.
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We are doing things.
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As Emerson said, they died to leave their children free.
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And so that is part of his legacy in allowing us with this constitutional system to fight it out among ourselves and to live under our own vine and fig tree, and none can make us afraid.
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So tell us a little bit about Henry Knox.
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Henry Knox was a 24-year-old Boston bookseller.
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He had briefly gone to the Boston Latin School.
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And by the time he's 21, Henry Knox owns a bookstore in Boston.
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And Knox really has a good mind for military science.
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So when the occupation begins, Knox sees the high ground in Roxbury and says that would be an important place to have fortified so the British can't come out of Boston by way of Boston Neck, which is today Washington Street.
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So he builds a fort there.
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Doesn't have artillery.
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But when Washington is inspecting these lines just after he arrives, Knox flags down Washington and says, Come see the fort I've built.
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And Washington is amazed.
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This guy understands the angles you need to defend a fort.
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So he had no permission, he he did this of his own.
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He got some volunteers together and said, Let's build a fort.
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Let's do it.
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And they did.
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Yeah, he is someone Washington didn't order this fortune.
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No, Washington didn't even know this guy existed or the Roxbury existed.
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So the fort goes up probably shortly after Lexington and Concord.
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And Washington is impressed, and he gave makes Knox kind of a good news, bad news proposition.
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I want to put you in charge of all of the artillery in the Continental Army.
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That's the good news.
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The bad news is you have to go out to Fort Ticonderoga and get the artillery.
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So Knox goes to Fort Ticonderoga, this massive fortification on Lake Champlain, and he gets there in December.
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Of course, there's a lot of snow on the ground, roads are frozen, lakes are frozen, but of course there's an important piece of that.
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If they waited until the roads thawed, these cannon would sink into the mud.
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So Knox builds sleds and he gets about 59 pieces of artillery, along with other things necessary to fire the cannon, builds sleds, and then hires teamsters.
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And each of these sleds requires a couple of teams of oxen to pull because each one weighs about a thousand pounds.
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Knox writes to Washington in mid-December, just as he's about to leave, saying, Within two weeks I will deliver to your Excellency a noble train of artillery.
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So they make this 300-mile trek, and by the end of January, Knox reaches the town of Framingham, and then he rides ahead to see Washington and tell him the cannon are here.
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So this is really a feat.
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So let's talk about a character we haven't introduced into the story very strongly.
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My understanding is that this guy was actually the most famous American.
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Benjamin Franklin.
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Hands down.
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Yes.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Benjamin Franklin.
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And in fact, when Franklin goes to Paris at the end of 1776, he becomes a celebrity there.
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More famous in Europe in some ways than in America, where people knew him personally.
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He's an exceptional character because I think to Europeans, he he is this insight into America.
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He's accessible, he's knowable.
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He's not a stoic in the way that Washington is or b or Washington becomes.
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Yes.
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He's smart, he's well-read, he's innovative, he's got a great business mind.
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He forms insurance companies.
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He he starts off the US Postal Service.
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He discovers electricity, its usability.
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But he also makes uh scuba diving flippers.
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So a very different mindset.
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One of the my favorite stories is his will, where he leaves 2,000 pounds for 200 years to be given to young apprentices to start their own businesses.
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Yeah.
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But also to fund the city of Philadelphia in Boston, the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia and and the univer the college here.
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Yes.
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We're all funded from that 2,000 pound donation.
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He calculated the interest after a hundred years, he says, you can take the interest and he calculates what it will be, and then use that for public improvements, which is why we have Franklin Park.
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The Franklin Institute.
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It's an incredible bit of foresight, much like an independent country.
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It is.
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But he never forgot where he came from.
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At the Constitutional Convention, when he is the most celebrated man in the world, great philosopher, and he's carried in every day in a sedan chair and put in his seat at the front.
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And he gives three speeches that he had written out in advance, and he has someone else read.
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And that's actually a great, again, theatrical trick.
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You can sit there looking like a stage.
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He also knew he was not a very good public speaker, very good writer.
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And these are really wonderful speeches.
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One saying the president shouldn't be paid, and another was calling for prayer.
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And the third, the final one he gives, is calling for unanimity and ratification.
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Wonderful speeches.
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But the one that really strikes me is the members are debating whether there should be a property qualification for voting.
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Because we don't want land.
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Yeah, yeah, we won't want landless people showing up and voting, and they'll be under the people who will bribe them.
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And this is John Dickinson, the great uh the author of The Farmers' Letters, says, yeah, this would be a good idea to have only freeholders should vote.
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James Madison thinks, you know, that may be a good thing.
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And they say, look, in 150 years, it may be the country's overrun with uh landless.
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Right now, freeholders are in charge.
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They won't mind preserving this.
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Governor Morris says, I'm not afraid of words.
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If there's an aristocracy, it's going to come out of the House of Representatives.
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That's what we have to guard against.
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And will these landless people be guardians of liberty?
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No, they won't.
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George Mason, who is one of the wealthiest men there, um, gets up and says, Why are we distrusting people?
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So a yeah, I can see should a moneyed man, that is someone who doesn't own a freehold estate, a moneyed man, a merchant, or the parent of a large number of children, be distrusted.
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You think about that, saying a person with money, a person with uh uh a business, and Governor Moore says, if they really value the right to vote, and you're a moneyed man, you can buy land.
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Right.
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If you don't value the right to vote, then you don't deserve it.
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And finally, it's Franklin.
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He says, don't distrust the virtue and common sense of ordinary people.
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In England, he said, they passed a law saying tumultuous gatherings are dangerous, therefore they forbid them, and forbid those without property from voting.
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Subsequent parliament says people without property are going to have to do road work and do other things.
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It says during the war, American sailors who were taken prisoner and held captive by the British could have become free if they joined the Royal Navy.
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They didn't.
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Why not?
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And Americans taken and British taken captive by Americans would.
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It's because these two countries treat common people differently.
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It's really a very powerful short statement.
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And this is not Franklin, the internationally acclaimed philosopher.
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This is Franklin, the son of the Boston soap boiler, who knew what it was like to work and be distrusted, but you have a role in this society.
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So let's turn our attention to maybe a sadder part of his life, which is his son.
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It's one of the amazing stories of a revolution.
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His son and uh chooses a different side during the war.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.799
Neither one really understands it.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:44.240
And we know William was very upset with this, couldn't really understand the choice his father was making.
00:18:50.799 --> 00:19:04.319
Comes back in 1775, goes out off to New Jersey to see his brother his son, and people it's a s it's the summer, windows are open, neighbors remembered, their voices rising as they're arguing.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.920
William is very much Benjamin Franklin's son.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.400
Right.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.880
He knows what he thinks.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.920
His father can't understand that he is on the other side.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:23.119
And Benjamin then actually essentially kidnaps William's son, Temple Franklin, and takes him to raise.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:29.440
And when William is put in prison, he's arrested by the New Jersey authorities, put in prison in Connecticut.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.119
Benjamin won't do anything.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:39.279
Secondly, when he is part of the negotiating team in Paris, the British want protection for those who remain loyal.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.960
Franklin says, we don't choose to have such neighbors.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:20:01.680
And then, you know, he's in Paris with his uh grandson Benjamin Franklin Bash and his grandson Temple Franklin, and it's arranged they will stop in England on the coast to see his son William because there are some documents William has to sign because he and his father have investments in land in Ohio.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:13.839
And they do stop and they see William, he signs the documents and he says, Okay, I'll see you tomorrow, and his father is non-committal, and his father is gone by the next morning.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:22.000
From Benjamin's point of view, William tried to deprive him of so much, as did others who were remaining loyal to the crown.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:33.839
If there was one moment during this entire period that demonstrates gaining grit to you, one key moment, a moment that you identify with.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.559
As a person, as a historian, what would it be?
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.519
The short answer is most of them are.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.599
It's mostly is a struggle.
00:20:47.839 --> 00:21:00.799
But I think for Americans, the winters the army spent at Valley Forge and at Morristown really show these men who had nothing but are willing to risk even more than that.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:02.079
Why are they staying?
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:03.359
Are they part of this?
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:13.039
And you can see this then borne out in 1783, in November of 1783, when the British are finally leaving New York.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:17.039
November 25th, I think, is evacuation day in New York.
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:23.839
And it happens eight years after the evacuation, seven years after the evacuation day in Boston.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:24.319
Okay.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.160
But the British are leaving.
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:36.480
And Washington had kept enough soldiers together to make this a respectable showing, but he is not marching into New York simply with his army.
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.000
He is with George Clinton, the governor of New York.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.039
Again, as with Boston being restored.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.640
New York is being New York City is being restored.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:52.799
And they come, they enter through Harlem and are by Kingsbridge and march down the island.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:59.599
And when they get into the town itself, which is in the lower part of Manhattan, one New York woman writes about the appearance.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.599
Of these soldiers was so much different from what we've been used to.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:12.079
For eight years we've been under British occupation, and those soldiers had bright uniforms and shiny weapons, and they marched.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:13.680
And really precision.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.759
But these guys were dirty.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.960
They were ragged.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.799
They were almost naked.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.279
But she said, but they were our troops.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.079
They had sacrificed for us.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:32.880
And she sees this at this moment, a moment of triumph, but it really shows the struggle that had gone into making it possible.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:47.519
Those who win the war understand how much they have sacrificed, and the others made seemingly the easier choice not to take this risk, even though we can see the war ending in a lot of ways that are much more difficult than the way it does.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:55.200
And the real miracle is the achievement of a system that allows us to continue fighting it out among ourselves without cutting one another's throats.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.319
What gives you hope for the next 250 years for America?
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:05.359
And what values do you think will help us get there?
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:15.039
What gives me hope has been over the past year or so seeing how many people are excited about commemorating these events.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.079
Massachusetts issued a 250-year plate.
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:26.559
And within months, this sold many more than the Cape Cod plate, which uh and others.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:31.839
I think this it it it so far exceeded their expectations, they have to keep printing them up.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.039
You're looking at one right here.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.079
Me too.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:34.400
Yeah.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:40.240
This became because people do want to connect with this.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.279
People understand the importance of this story.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:56.960
And seeing that, and seeing the kids in South Boston who get excited about Henry Knox, we did a commemoration of the Battle of Chelsea Creek, and seeing these kids in Chelsea learning about this, telling the story of this.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:04.720
In Chelsea High School, kids and their history classes have to prepare a walking tour of the Battle of Chelsea Creek.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.000
So taking ownership of this story where it happened has been an essential thing.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:17.200
Then that leads you to understanding why this happened and what the values were that these guys were defending.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:27.039
Your right to live the life as you would like to, the values of the Declaration of Independence, which no one was waiting for Congress to decide that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.720
Massachusetts was debating this in April and May.
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:36.559
And it is that story that continues our understanding of who we are.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:53.920
It's not just that we, you know, live in this particular area or have this particular flag, but it is an ongoing understanding of who brought us this far and what our responsibility is to leave this for our children and grandchildren.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:25:03.359
So that's what gives me hope, seeing people I supporting that idea, these ideas, which continue to be what shapes the United States.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:11.519
Well, thank you, sir, and thank you for talking so passionately about our heritage, our history, our culture, and bringing it to life.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.200
Thank you for delving into these the characters of the people who pulled this gamble off.
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:23.599
Because I don't know if people understand just how crazy an idea that was.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:30.720
Uh, and especially in that time, against the best trained, most dominant military the world had known at that point.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.279
And they'd done something extraordinary.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.440
And I'm delighted to be here to to hopefully help with the next 250 years.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.839
Well, thank you, Peter, and thank you for all that you do to help tell these stories.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:42.720
Thank you, sir.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:44.160
Thank you.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.280
Welcome to Gaining Grid.
00:00:01.520 --> 00:00:02.640
I'm Peter Royce.
00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:05.919
America's story has never been an easy walk.
00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:12.960
It's been shaped by people who took risks, stood their ground, and kept going when the outcome was anything but certain.
00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:21.359
Today I'm joined by Professor Bob Allison of Suffolk University, a historian and author who brings that story to life.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:29.359
We'll explore the grit that helped build this country and what it can teach us about courage, leadership, and our own hard roads.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:46.960
Professor Bob Ellison, welcome and thank you for agreeing to share your knowledge and passion for our incredible uh legacy in history and celebrating our 250th anniversary this year.
00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:51.039
Thank you, Peter, and thank you for what you've been doing to show that history.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:53.439
Could you tell us a little bit about yourself, Professor?
00:00:53.759 --> 00:00:58.560
I teach history at Suffolk University in Boston, also in the Harvard Extension School.
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:07.840
And for about 30 years I was fortunate to live in South Boston, which is of course the home of the Dorchester Heights monument to the first American victory in the war for independence.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:16.000
And that's how I first uh became aware of your passion for history was around Dorchester Heights, a remarkable place.
00:01:16.719 --> 00:01:25.439
It is the victory that makes it clear that the Americans can win this war against the world's greatest military power.
00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:28.879
What is it about the American character?
00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:38.879
Because these folks said we're going to rise up, we've no idea how we're going to run it in the aftermath, but we're going to do this thing, we're going to do it now, and we're going to make it happen.
00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:40.879
And the other things we can figure out.
00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.920
Some would see that as confidence.
00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:46.159
We Americans would and do.
00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:53.920
Some would see it as bravado, and some would see it as idiotic, as the King of England didn't say that, but that's kind of his his leaning.
00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.480
Do we still maintain that 250 years later?
00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:02.640
Is that still in our character, the ability to take on more than we can chew and figure parts of it out?
00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:04.959
I certainly hope so.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:15.680
Because I think that is the essential thing that has made the country prosper for 250 years, is this ability not waiting for someone else, but simply doing it.
00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:29.680
This is something Alexis de Toqueville noted in the 1830s in his Democracy in America, that they're not waiting for the government, that Americans they see a problem in their neighborhood, in their town, will just simply get together and try to solve it.
00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:38.000
William Martin, the novelist, wrote a novel about New England, which is about we get up in the morning, we go to work, we solve our problems.
00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:45.759
So that is, I hope, still part of our character and an ability to figure out how we can solve something.
00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:47.280
And this is the problem we face.
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:55.120
That is, we're not looking for creating a utopia or some grand scheme that is going to solve all problems, but this is the immediate one.
00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:56.960
This is what we need to do.
00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:03.439
And how do we go from point A to point B to solve whatever problem seems insoluble?
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:08.000
And we have solved quite a few over the course of 250 years.
00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:14.960
Not really solved by government, but simply by individuals realizing we need to do something.
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:20.000
And this is something you do see at the time of the revolution.
00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:32.159
One of my favorite anecdotes is of a historian in Massachusetts, sometime in the middle of the 19th century, hearing that in his town there's a man who answered the call at Lexington on the April 19th.
00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:34.000
So he wants to know why did this guy go?
00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:34.319
Yeah.
00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:36.400
Now an old man he goes to see.
00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:38.879
He says, You were at April 19th.
00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:41.039
You marched off to Lexington and Concord.
00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:42.159
He says, Yes, I did.
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:43.360
Well, what was it?
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:45.759
Was it the Stamp Act that got you inspired?
00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.039
He says, Well, I don't think the stamps ever were unloaded.
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:50.479
Was it the Tea Act?
00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:52.240
He says, I never drank tea.
00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:54.080
Was it the intolerable act?
00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:55.439
He says, I never heard of them.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:58.560
Well, this exhausts the historian because those are the reasons he knew.
00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:03.039
These guys marched off, and now this guy has said he hadn't heard of them, didn't think that happened.
00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:04.000
Well, what was it then?
00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.639
And the man said, We had always governed ourselves.
00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:08.719
They weren't going to allow us to do that.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:10.400
We could not let that happen.
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:16.879
So it is the revolution is really triggered, not with this idea, let's create the ideal society.
00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:24.560
But here, someone is going to prevent us from building the kind of society we want, or create living in the kind of world we want.
00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.720
And whatever world it is, it's messy, it's complicated.
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.360
It's one that has worked.
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:42.319
And when the Constitution was created, I mean, some Franklin gives a speech where he says that our enemies are waiting to hear that we're meeting again only for the purpose of cutting one another's throats.
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:55.680
Henry Clinton, who's one of the British generals, says that the best thing we can do, this is like in 1777 or 78, when things have started, and now seems like the Americans aren't going to be as easily defeated as the British wanted.
00:04:56.000 --> 00:05:01.360
The best thing we can do, he says, pull all of our forces to Florida and Canada and watch.
00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:05.519
And the people in between will spend the next 10 years killing each other because that's what they do.
00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:06.720
And it is something.
00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:08.480
Americans do fight among themselves.
00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:10.720
We fight among ourselves a lot.
00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:19.600
But we still, each of us has this idea of what it is we're trying to do and which we do require the cooperation of others.
00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:23.040
And that is the way the system has worked.
00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:24.879
I think it's a beautiful way to put it.
00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:28.000
We've always trusted in the end destination.
00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:29.519
We disagree in how to get there.
00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.240
So let's dive into the characters.
00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:54.639
Does Washington need this revolution?
00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.680
He's an extraordinarily wealthy man.
00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:06.959
What in the name of all that's good would possess a man so wealthy and so well born to that society to gamble it all?
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:13.920
What w was there a moment do you think, or a couple of moments that stand out in the conversion of George Washington?
00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:16.240
That is a terrific question.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:25.839
He could have had a life, as many other Virginians did, as a successful planter, respected in the community who will periodically send him to the House of Burgesses.
00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:31.519
But you can see the people in the neighborhood also make him do other things, a vestryman, other things.
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.480
It always seems like they're tapping Washington.
00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.439
And he's not someone who goes to the House of Burgesses and gives speeches.
00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.920
Thomas Jefferson says he never heard Washington speak in the House of Burgesses.
00:06:44.959 --> 00:06:49.120
But when he spoke in committees, people listened because they saw he had judgment.
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:55.040
Washington does see the way things are going with the British rule.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:01.680
In January of 1776, 75, the town of Norfolk is burned by the British.
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.279
What will happen if we don't do something?
00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.680
This is really the big question.
00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:17.360
It's something that Ralph Waldo Emerson really gets at in his Conquered Hymn, these heroes who dared to die and leave their children free.
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:19.839
Washington is thinking about the future.
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:23.519
And what happens if we don't take a stand now?
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.040
And once he does, he realizes he is in.
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:32.480
Because what he wants is independence, not just for him, but for all Americans.
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:39.360
As he will say later in life, where each can sit under his own vine and fig tree and none can make him afraid.
00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:42.319
That is really the goal of this.
00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:47.839
So George Washington seems to because he's human.
00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:50.959
He is a man at the end of the day.
00:07:51.519 --> 00:08:05.439
But at some point in his journey, he does seem to transcend into a role, an iconic role that weathers the storms and temptations of civil war, because that was a great possibility.
00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:13.839
Is that an important moment for him where he realizes the symbolic and the importance of symbolism and leadership and war?
00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:18.240
Washington loved theater.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:21.839
And he understands he is playing a role.
00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:26.079
It's not simply playing a role, and I've never been able to be an actor.
00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:26.399
Yeah.
00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:28.160
So there is something about it.
00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:30.720
You also have to have something to back this up.
00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:42.480
And he really imbibed this and understood the importance of what he was doing and is very sensitive to it.
00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:46.480
And the fact that he and you're right, he's a man, he's a human.
00:08:47.120 --> 00:08:49.600
But he does try to transcend that.
00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:54.080
And one of his real accomplishments is mastering his temper.
00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:00.080
He has written down these Jesuit rules for behavior, which he has really works on.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:05.759
And they mentioned him swearing for a half an hour over the situation he's gotten into.
00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:11.120
That is one of about only three or four episodes where we know he lost his temper.
00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:13.120
And he did have one.
00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:22.559
But he understood that's not the way you get people to do things or accomplish things by getting angry or showing people that you are.
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:24.399
You really have to control that.
00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.240
You control yourself first.
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:32.559
Again, he loved theater, and one of his favorite plays was Joseph Addison's play Cato about a noble Roman.
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:37.840
He's part of the conspiracy against Caesar, and he winds up actually dying in this.
00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:46.320
And um, but one of the lines Washington liked the most is we cannot guarantee victory, but we can deserve it.
00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.519
So is he is he popular or more respected?
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.240
That's a very good question.
00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.000
I think it is both.
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:07.440
I don't think you can underestimate the connection people will have with him, those who understand him.
00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:14.480
And I think it's the fact that he in some ways he does seem like a plaster figure.
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:19.120
He's some a demigod, he is called, but he is, as you said earlier, a man.
00:10:19.279 --> 00:10:26.240
And I think part of the um attraction is he shows the possibilities.
00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:36.399
And that is um it's one of the things that makes him a fascinating character, even though a marble figure isn't that interesting.
00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.960
But you get beneath the surface and you see what is happening there.
00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:50.480
It's what really what makes him continue to have uh staying power because it's the character we all to which we all would aspire.
00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:52.960
But that's probably what Washington would have wanted.
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:54.720
We are going about our business.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:56.240
We are doing things.
00:10:56.399 --> 00:11:00.159
As Emerson said, they died to leave their children free.
00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:11.440
And so that is part of his legacy in allowing us with this constitutional system to fight it out among ourselves and to live under our own vine and fig tree, and none can make us afraid.
00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:14.000
So tell us a little bit about Henry Knox.
00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:18.000
Henry Knox was a 24-year-old Boston bookseller.
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.720
He had briefly gone to the Boston Latin School.
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:24.559
And by the time he's 21, Henry Knox owns a bookstore in Boston.
00:11:24.720 --> 00:11:28.480
And Knox really has a good mind for military science.
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:42.879
So when the occupation begins, Knox sees the high ground in Roxbury and says that would be an important place to have fortified so the British can't come out of Boston by way of Boston Neck, which is today Washington Street.
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.559
So he builds a fort there.
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.080
Doesn't have artillery.
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:54.639
But when Washington is inspecting these lines just after he arrives, Knox flags down Washington and says, Come see the fort I've built.
00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:56.480
And Washington is amazed.
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.240
This guy understands the angles you need to defend a fort.
00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:02.639
So he had no permission, he he did this of his own.
00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:04.879
He got some volunteers together and said, Let's build a fort.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.440
Let's do it.
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:05.919
And they did.
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:08.159
Yeah, he is someone Washington didn't order this fortune.
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:11.679
No, Washington didn't even know this guy existed or the Roxbury existed.
00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:16.000
So the fort goes up probably shortly after Lexington and Concord.
00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:22.320
And Washington is impressed, and he gave makes Knox kind of a good news, bad news proposition.
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:26.320
I want to put you in charge of all of the artillery in the Continental Army.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:27.360
That's the good news.
00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:31.759
The bad news is you have to go out to Fort Ticonderoga and get the artillery.
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:41.120
So Knox goes to Fort Ticonderoga, this massive fortification on Lake Champlain, and he gets there in December.
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:48.000
Of course, there's a lot of snow on the ground, roads are frozen, lakes are frozen, but of course there's an important piece of that.
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:52.399
If they waited until the roads thawed, these cannon would sink into the mud.
00:12:52.639 --> 00:13:04.240
So Knox builds sleds and he gets about 59 pieces of artillery, along with other things necessary to fire the cannon, builds sleds, and then hires teamsters.
00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:11.039
And each of these sleds requires a couple of teams of oxen to pull because each one weighs about a thousand pounds.
00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:20.559
Knox writes to Washington in mid-December, just as he's about to leave, saying, Within two weeks I will deliver to your Excellency a noble train of artillery.
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:31.360
So they make this 300-mile trek, and by the end of January, Knox reaches the town of Framingham, and then he rides ahead to see Washington and tell him the cannon are here.
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.399
So this is really a feat.
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:40.480
So let's talk about a character we haven't introduced into the story very strongly.
00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:45.600
My understanding is that this guy was actually the most famous American.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:46.720
Benjamin Franklin.
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:49.519
Hands down.
00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:50.000
Yes.
00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:50.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:52.320
Benjamin Franklin.
00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:58.399
And in fact, when Franklin goes to Paris at the end of 1776, he becomes a celebrity there.
00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:02.639
More famous in Europe in some ways than in America, where people knew him personally.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:09.600
He's an exceptional character because I think to Europeans, he he is this insight into America.
00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.000
He's accessible, he's knowable.
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:17.279
He's not a stoic in the way that Washington is or b or Washington becomes.
00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:17.919
Yes.
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.960
He's smart, he's well-read, he's innovative, he's got a great business mind.
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:24.799
He forms insurance companies.
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:28.080
He he starts off the US Postal Service.
00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:31.679
He discovers electricity, its usability.
00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:34.480
But he also makes uh scuba diving flippers.
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:36.240
So a very different mindset.
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:46.159
One of the my favorite stories is his will, where he leaves 2,000 pounds for 200 years to be given to young apprentices to start their own businesses.
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:46.879
Yeah.
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:53.600
But also to fund the city of Philadelphia in Boston, the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia and and the univer the college here.
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:54.080
Yes.
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.840
We're all funded from that 2,000 pound donation.
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:10.320
He calculated the interest after a hundred years, he says, you can take the interest and he calculates what it will be, and then use that for public improvements, which is why we have Franklin Park.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:12.080
The Franklin Institute.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:16.320
It's an incredible bit of foresight, much like an independent country.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:17.039
It is.
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:19.600
But he never forgot where he came from.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:31.679
At the Constitutional Convention, when he is the most celebrated man in the world, great philosopher, and he's carried in every day in a sedan chair and put in his seat at the front.
00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:38.080
And he gives three speeches that he had written out in advance, and he has someone else read.
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:41.279
And that's actually a great, again, theatrical trick.
00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.120
You can sit there looking like a stage.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.000
He also knew he was not a very good public speaker, very good writer.
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:47.919
And these are really wonderful speeches.
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:53.120
One saying the president shouldn't be paid, and another was calling for prayer.
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:58.159
And the third, the final one he gives, is calling for unanimity and ratification.
00:15:58.320 --> 00:15:59.360
Wonderful speeches.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:06.559
But the one that really strikes me is the members are debating whether there should be a property qualification for voting.
00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:07.919
Because we don't want land.
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:14.240
Yeah, yeah, we won't want landless people showing up and voting, and they'll be under the people who will bribe them.
00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:22.960
And this is John Dickinson, the great uh the author of The Farmers' Letters, says, yeah, this would be a good idea to have only freeholders should vote.
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.679
James Madison thinks, you know, that may be a good thing.
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.799
And they say, look, in 150 years, it may be the country's overrun with uh landless.
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.960
Right now, freeholders are in charge.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:34.399
They won't mind preserving this.
00:16:34.559 --> 00:16:36.639
Governor Morris says, I'm not afraid of words.
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.000
If there's an aristocracy, it's going to come out of the House of Representatives.
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.080
That's what we have to guard against.
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:45.120
And will these landless people be guardians of liberty?
00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:46.399
No, they won't.
00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:54.159
George Mason, who is one of the wealthiest men there, um, gets up and says, Why are we distrusting people?
00:16:54.399 --> 00:17:05.200
So a yeah, I can see should a moneyed man, that is someone who doesn't own a freehold estate, a moneyed man, a merchant, or the parent of a large number of children, be distrusted.
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:17.039
You think about that, saying a person with money, a person with uh uh a business, and Governor Moore says, if they really value the right to vote, and you're a moneyed man, you can buy land.
00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:17.279
Right.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:20.000
If you don't value the right to vote, then you don't deserve it.
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:21.920
And finally, it's Franklin.
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.160
He says, don't distrust the virtue and common sense of ordinary people.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:34.319
In England, he said, they passed a law saying tumultuous gatherings are dangerous, therefore they forbid them, and forbid those without property from voting.
00:17:34.559 --> 00:17:38.880
Subsequent parliament says people without property are going to have to do road work and do other things.
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:46.480
It says during the war, American sailors who were taken prisoner and held captive by the British could have become free if they joined the Royal Navy.
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:47.440
They didn't.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:48.240
Why not?
00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:52.319
And Americans taken and British taken captive by Americans would.
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:57.119
It's because these two countries treat common people differently.
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.240
It's really a very powerful short statement.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:03.599
And this is not Franklin, the internationally acclaimed philosopher.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:11.519
This is Franklin, the son of the Boston soap boiler, who knew what it was like to work and be distrusted, but you have a role in this society.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:19.279
So let's turn our attention to maybe a sadder part of his life, which is his son.
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:26.319
It's one of the amazing stories of a revolution.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:32.640
His son and uh chooses a different side during the war.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:36.799
Neither one really understands it.
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:44.240
And we know William was very upset with this, couldn't really understand the choice his father was making.
00:18:50.799 --> 00:19:04.319
Comes back in 1775, goes out off to New Jersey to see his brother his son, and people it's a s it's the summer, windows are open, neighbors remembered, their voices rising as they're arguing.
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.920
William is very much Benjamin Franklin's son.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:08.400
Right.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:10.880
He knows what he thinks.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:15.920
His father can't understand that he is on the other side.
00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:23.119
And Benjamin then actually essentially kidnaps William's son, Temple Franklin, and takes him to raise.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:29.440
And when William is put in prison, he's arrested by the New Jersey authorities, put in prison in Connecticut.
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:31.119
Benjamin won't do anything.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:39.279
Secondly, when he is part of the negotiating team in Paris, the British want protection for those who remain loyal.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.960
Franklin says, we don't choose to have such neighbors.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:20:01.680
And then, you know, he's in Paris with his uh grandson Benjamin Franklin Bash and his grandson Temple Franklin, and it's arranged they will stop in England on the coast to see his son William because there are some documents William has to sign because he and his father have investments in land in Ohio.
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:13.839
And they do stop and they see William, he signs the documents and he says, Okay, I'll see you tomorrow, and his father is non-committal, and his father is gone by the next morning.
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:22.000
From Benjamin's point of view, William tried to deprive him of so much, as did others who were remaining loyal to the crown.
00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:33.839
If there was one moment during this entire period that demonstrates gaining grit to you, one key moment, a moment that you identify with.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.559
As a person, as a historian, what would it be?
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.519
The short answer is most of them are.
00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:47.599
It's mostly is a struggle.
00:20:47.839 --> 00:21:00.799
But I think for Americans, the winters the army spent at Valley Forge and at Morristown really show these men who had nothing but are willing to risk even more than that.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:02.079
Why are they staying?
00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:03.359
Are they part of this?
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:13.039
And you can see this then borne out in 1783, in November of 1783, when the British are finally leaving New York.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:17.039
November 25th, I think, is evacuation day in New York.
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:23.839
And it happens eight years after the evacuation, seven years after the evacuation day in Boston.
00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:24.319
Okay.
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.160
But the British are leaving.
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:36.480
And Washington had kept enough soldiers together to make this a respectable showing, but he is not marching into New York simply with his army.
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.000
He is with George Clinton, the governor of New York.
00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:43.039
Again, as with Boston being restored.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.640
New York is being New York City is being restored.
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:52.799
And they come, they enter through Harlem and are by Kingsbridge and march down the island.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:59.599
And when they get into the town itself, which is in the lower part of Manhattan, one New York woman writes about the appearance.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.599
Of these soldiers was so much different from what we've been used to.
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:12.079
For eight years we've been under British occupation, and those soldiers had bright uniforms and shiny weapons, and they marched.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:13.680
And really precision.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:15.759
But these guys were dirty.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.960
They were ragged.
00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:18.799
They were almost naked.
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.279
But she said, but they were our troops.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:24.079
They had sacrificed for us.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:32.880
And she sees this at this moment, a moment of triumph, but it really shows the struggle that had gone into making it possible.
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:47.519
Those who win the war understand how much they have sacrificed, and the others made seemingly the easier choice not to take this risk, even though we can see the war ending in a lot of ways that are much more difficult than the way it does.
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:55.200
And the real miracle is the achievement of a system that allows us to continue fighting it out among ourselves without cutting one another's throats.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:00.319
What gives you hope for the next 250 years for America?
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:05.359
And what values do you think will help us get there?
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:15.039
What gives me hope has been over the past year or so seeing how many people are excited about commemorating these events.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:20.079
Massachusetts issued a 250-year plate.
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:26.559
And within months, this sold many more than the Cape Cod plate, which uh and others.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:31.839
I think this it it it so far exceeded their expectations, they have to keep printing them up.
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:33.039
You're looking at one right here.
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:34.079
Me too.
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:34.400
Yeah.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:40.240
This became because people do want to connect with this.
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.279
People understand the importance of this story.
00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:56.960
And seeing that, and seeing the kids in South Boston who get excited about Henry Knox, we did a commemoration of the Battle of Chelsea Creek, and seeing these kids in Chelsea learning about this, telling the story of this.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:04.720
In Chelsea High School, kids and their history classes have to prepare a walking tour of the Battle of Chelsea Creek.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.000
So taking ownership of this story where it happened has been an essential thing.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:17.200
Then that leads you to understanding why this happened and what the values were that these guys were defending.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:27.039
Your right to live the life as you would like to, the values of the Declaration of Independence, which no one was waiting for Congress to decide that.
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:30.720
Massachusetts was debating this in April and May.
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:36.559
And it is that story that continues our understanding of who we are.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:53.920
It's not just that we, you know, live in this particular area or have this particular flag, but it is an ongoing understanding of who brought us this far and what our responsibility is to leave this for our children and grandchildren.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:25:03.359
So that's what gives me hope, seeing people I supporting that idea, these ideas, which continue to be what shapes the United States.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:11.519
Well, thank you, sir, and thank you for talking so passionately about our heritage, our history, our culture, and bringing it to life.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.200
Thank you for delving into these the characters of the people who pulled this gamble off.
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:23.599
Because I don't know if people understand just how crazy an idea that was.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:30.720
Uh, and especially in that time, against the best trained, most dominant military the world had known at that point.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.279
And they'd done something extraordinary.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.440
And I'm delighted to be here to to hopefully help with the next 250 years.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.839
Well, thank you, Peter, and thank you for all that you do to help tell these stories.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:42.720
Thank you, sir.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:44.160
Thank you.
