36. Doctor First or Inspector First: What to Do When You Suspect Mold Illness with Mike Schrantz

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I'm Dr.
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Mark Sue and welcome to the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast.
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Join me and our community weekly as we bring you unfiltered health from information to longevity, real stories, real people, real solutions.
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Alright, hey folks, this is the Functional Medicine Reality Podcast.
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Once again, this is Dr.
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Mark Sue, your co-host.
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I'm the Doctor of People here with Mike Schantz, the Doctor of Homes.
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And we do this recurring rotational roughly once every four or five weeks co-hosting of this functional medicine reality podcast.
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You guys have met him before, or at least you should have by now.
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If you haven't, you've missed out.
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But uh yeah, how's it going today, Mike?
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Doing good, ready to kick butt.
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Have an amazing topic today to bring up to the audience that I'm assuming many of them can relate to.
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Yeah, so we we kind of um, you know, like we usually do, we we don't script this out.
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We kind of just frame it out, sometimes, you know, to variable degrees.
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But what we want to chat about today is this experience of the IEPs, the home inspectors, and the people clinicians working together or not so much.
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Like the some of the struggles with it, or maybe it's visions of what could be.
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But we, you know, we we know each other well from the the board, working on the board of directors at the uh with the nonprofit organization, Iseai.
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If you haven't checked out before, quick plug there, i Iseai.org.
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Lots of lots of great uh free downloadable material.
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Um most of it from Mike and his crew's community, the IEP crew's work.
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They're way lightning years ahead of the human clinicians in terms of producing educational information and and practical application information, quite frankly.
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Not it's it's actually a lot of it is application information.
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It's not just, well, you should know about this, right?
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Uh that's what is awesome about what you guys have done.
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But um let me let you lead here.
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Let me let me shove and just say, you know, you suggested, hey, we should chat a little bit more.
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We've we've done a we've done, is it just one or have we done two?
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No, we've done two previous recordings where you and I are work talking together with a uh in one case it was kind of like a a client, and in another case it was more of a he with Lou, who is a real estate developer and talking about sort of like in a in a cross cross in the crosshairs or sort of cross-collaboration there.
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But you wanted to talk more, you said, hey, let's talk more about this this sort of dynamic and the challenges around it with the two the two sides working together for the sake of the patient or client's better good.
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So why don't you why don't you start us off here and just say, hey, you know, what's the pain point?
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What do you what are your experiences and go from there?
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Right on.
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Yeah.
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So for me, you know, obviously the world that we work in, chronic illness community, we're dealing with people who have types of illnesses that don't often have test codes or easier to understand that are easy to understand.
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We also have the environmental side where people are looking at, hey, I heard that my home may be a place of exposure.
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I heard about water damaged buildings, I've heard about mold, and now I'm hearding more about bacteria.
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And it's very overwhelming, it's complicated.
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And and there's a lot of part of the we're talking about pain points.
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So this is a safe there's a this is a safe place.
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So so is besides the fact that your next hurting right now, but we'll put that aside.
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Aaron Powell Yeah, I wasn't gonna bring it up, but I'm glad you did, because it is.
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People are coming to us, not as it's not every time, but I would say 30 to 40 percent of the time, and 40 is probably the higher end, where clients will go online, they'll read stuff, and then they'll just be understandably as a patient, I know the feeling, desperate to just they think there's a problem in their home, and they'll go into it.
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And the problem with that is is that often.
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If you can back up just for a second for grounding, when you say they come to us, who is us?
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Is us like us or I specifically?
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Yeah, the environmental professionals, the people that are doing the assessment investigations, checking a look, trying to find sources in the home, under the home, in the HVAC system, you name it.
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And that that's all well and good, the the idea of it.
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But what oftentimes happen is they start to realize in some cases that it's overwhelming.
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Oh my gosh, my whole crawl space is affected.
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I have to spend how much money?
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And what ends up happening is it ends up going back to the question of do I really need to do this?
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And what oftentimes is missing in that situation is they don't have a doctor who's quarterbacking and helping narrow down a focus to help them justify spending that money.
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Because let me tell you something, Mark, if it costs 10 cents to assess the home, if it costs another 10 cents to remediate or clean the home, there would be no business for that topic for me.
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It would people would just do it, even if they had to do it 20 times.
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So what?
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It's only going to cost them a couple bucks or what?
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But the issue is, is a lot of times it's where the rubber meets the road with this pain point, is when you start talking about the cost of the assessment, perhaps the cost of the test, and then potential cost to remediate, and they feel lost.
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And what we're what we're not seeing is enough clinician-led guidance before the client ever steps foot into our arena, does consultations with us, we need that information.
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We want to know what is it that they've been diagnosed with, what is it that the clinicians or clinicians are saying, because it ends up being the compass, the guiding light to help them justify oftentimes spending money that they don't want to spend, sometimes that they don't even have.
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That's kind of the opening line.
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So if you can just give context here, uh, you know, because look, the the the first the first uh response that I have is that I'm more and more aware of now, even in the last two years, maybe even more so even the last year than I was, say, three or more years ago, is that let's just start with you, yourself.
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You you're you're you're you're neck deep.
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No pun intended, you're neck.
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You're you're you're neck head deep, not even waist deep, right, in this, in this realm, in this world, this community with this whole mold illness topic.
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You're I've always said to people, you know, no disrespect or compare, you know, negative comparisons with anybody else or whatever, I I view you as the most networked IEP in the country.
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All right.
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You have your so I you have relationships and connections and networking in in various kinds of communities, whether local, regional, nationally, different kinds of schools of thought, et cetera, et cetera.
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And so how much of this do you think is, you know, how much awareness do you have of other colleagues of yours, other IEPs' experiences as to how big of a uh challenge this is?
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Yeah, I you you could argue that every IEP, just from conversations I've had, have, you know, five, ten percent at least.
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It really depends on you actually bring up a good point.
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The fact that I'm networked the way that I am, I don't think I see it as much.
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That is to say, the the client who has no guidance from a clinician, they just went straight from reading information online or from a friend who told them about something that maybe they or their kids have, some illness, some exposure, and they go straight towards the indoor environmental professional.
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But I would argue that when you're in our industry, if you're known to work with those with chronic illness, usually is associated with like some sort of low dose exposure concern, the type of exposure that maybe a triathlete wouldn't, it wouldn't bother them.
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And I know that's a deeper discussion that you and I could piece apart.
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But the point I'm making is then you have the average person, the average, you have the average inspector who gets a call from a person who's like, I really need you to find all the mold my house.
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And this inspector comes out and they don't really have the awareness and they they don't realize to ask, well, what is your doctor saying?
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Why are we here today?
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Like, uh, why are you concerned?
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Where's that coming from?
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And I'm not just asking because I'm curious and I'm nosy.
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I might be nosy, but I'm not trying to be nosy without cause.
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I'm trying to figure out how can I honor the patient's time, money, and energy.
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Yeah, maybe they they have thoughts about EMF, exposure to dirty electricity and things of these, these, this nature, but we really are here today, and I know that because I asked, and because they work with a clinician, that they're worried about mold exposure.
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That's the classic, that's the low-hanging fruit.
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And so I'd say if someone in my arena that I you know and we have colleagues, a lot of great colleagues out there that you're aware of, I'll bet you it's 10 to 30 percent of the time.
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I know that's a swing, but it depends.
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But I think it's a lot higher when you're not networked like we are.
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I know a lot of good IEPs that do amazing work in the industry, but they're not networked, and that percentage could be even higher.
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It's enough of an issue that I wanted to bring it up here today with you.
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Aaron Powell Well, yeah, let's if we stick with an uh Right.
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Because I mean, it we it's impossible to know across the country, right?
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It's just unknown data, and there's no way to really tap into that on any level.
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And in here we're just going on subjective, just fair.
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Yeah.
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Community chat and observation, right?
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Or sort of almost like gut intuition from the conversations we have with our colleagues.
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So if we stick with just the um and we can get into this later here, you kind of alluded to it already, you know, sort of the mainstream IEP versus the sort of medically informed IEP, okay?
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But if we just stick within the sort of more medically informed IEPs or those who you network with regularly, do you think it's uh also a similar, you know, you said 30 to do you say 30 to 40 percent for you, maybe?
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Yeah, honestly, and I know I said for me, you could you could say 25 percent gut feel of clients.
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Do you think it's a similar experience for other IEPs?
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Yeah, I only by the logic of saying that I'm I'm in the same arena, I'm getting the same they're getting the same referrals from the same doctor, uh clinician, functional clinician that are sending patients our way.
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And normally an extraordinary.
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I might make up the other half the other percentage that's the other percentage.
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Yes, thank you.
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Thank you.
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I was giving the inverse is yes, but that leaves a balance.
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That leaves the balance of people that kind of just like not for any right or wrong reason, just the nature of their situation, choose to kind of do their own research, go their own way, and reach out to us.
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That twenty-five percent, whether it's twenty-five, thirty-five percent, it's in that area.
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I'd say it's definitely less than half, but it's still a meaningful number considering I work with many hundreds of clients a year.
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And that's just me.
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Okay.
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So let's just say uh so now that we have some like ground rules around it or some sense of it.
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So you and colleagues who are actually the more medically informed, and so you're you're obviously gonna receive more referrals from practitioners who deal with this stuff, right?
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So that's gonna take a that's gonna be a bigger percentage.
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So therefore you might quote unquote only be left with let's just say 25% of people who come to you and they are not working with uh with a clinician, whereas the mainstream IEP, that percentage is undoubtedly much higher because they're not getting referrals taking up that wider percentage.
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Okay.
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So so the struggle here, as you just said, is hey, it it's hard to it's harder to answer some of their questions and there's sort of like boundaries, and it's not just uh it's a lot of that is there's there's liability boundaries, there's uh scope of practice boundaries or whatever when they're asking you what kinds of questions and then and then secondly, you know, transitioning from there, what kind of uh what kind of system maybe do you envision is ideal and or pragmatic that isn't so ideal, but we just have to, you know, we have to do what's pragmatically feasible in order to solve this pain point.
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Yeah.
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Well, what I'd love to see happen is anybody who's dealing with a chronic illness or something that's not just a seasonal allergy where they're not really focused on the ex a meaningful exposure in their home, that they start with certainly education research from reliable uh organizations.
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You mentioned one, Iseaii.org earlier, and there's other organizations that deal in the world of chronic illness to get that dip their toes in the water, but ultimately finding alignment with a clinician, with a functional clinician, and you can help me fill in the the proper terms here, but not a conventional doctor that only knows conventional medicine and doesn't really understand like Lyme disease or CIRS or the other things that you're very familiar with, to give them the guidance of know what they to know where they need to focus on.
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And not just that, Mark, could focus on might be the type or types of contaminants, but also so they can help answer questions that oftentimes I'm guessing that you will run across.
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Well, is this is this exposure enough to make me sick?
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Should I be worried about this particular mycotoxin if it's mold that we're talking about?
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And you start getting into this kind of it's not uncomfortable for me because I know how to stay in my lane and not play doctor.
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And I can talk as an from the perspective of an observer and things of that nature, but I can't tell you whether or not this particular mycotoxin happens to have a unique adverse effect on your body, to be honest with you.
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I don't know that the the clinicians know the answer to that, but they might be able to give a more polished response and education so that when the client ultimately comes to me, the IEP that's focusing on the home or the building, that they're already kind of geared with this knowledge of here's here's what I understand that we're not looking for mold free, we're not looking for mycotoxin free.
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Here's what my doctor is specifically focusing on, which is why they think I have a mold illness or I've been diagnosed with something related to mold exposure being a concern.
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And then going from there, that saves a lot of a lot of uh confusion and a lot of it also helps save time, money, and energy because we've been in a number, 25%, of situations where by the time we get done educating them on the possibilities and where to start, they usually always get overwhelmed and they don't know where to go next.
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And we end up talking about you should find a clinician to help you understand this better and then come at this when you're ready.
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That's the biggest pain point that I've been getting the last number of years uh number of years anyway.
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Well, so yeah, take it take me down that road or you know, for this conversation, take us down that road.
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So that was my next really that was my next thought was okay, so if that's a if that's a challenge that people, hey, you can't you can't undo the sequence.
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So taking from where you lead, so somebody reaches out to you or an IEP colleague, and then uh you're faced with some of those questions that are hard to answer.
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La, is this how much is this a problem for my health or not?
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Then I'm assuming there's there's times that you're trying to direct them towards a clinician.
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And then what happens at that point?
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If they're working with a clinician, then we're able to focus on how to test the home or what to focus on.
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So if I could, if if I could throw a softball easy example to push off of and we can work together on this, is if I know that the person is focused on mold exposure, then I can I can weigh the t their time and energy and the money they might spend, weigh it more towards focusing on resources and steps that they'll end up spending money on with that.
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Whereas I may not do as much with VOCs, vault to organic compounds, off-gassing exposures, or maybe I won't be focused on having them upgrade their air filtration in their home or getting rid of carpets.
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I will weigh it and I can because it's an art beyond the science, right?
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The problem is that there's so much, so many good resources and steps people can take, but less than 1% of 1% of the population who can afford it do that.
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They don't most people don't do everything.
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They need to prioritize what they to focus on.
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So them doing it the right way helps me weigh things.
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Let's be sure we come back to that because um that's that's something I didn't quite uh I didn't envision in us just sketching this out.
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And so let's come back to that, okay?
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The the sort of delineation differentiation of possible directions, even just from your side with the environment.
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But if we can before we do that, if we can back up, so my real question is, you know, because you describe this as a pain point.
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Uh yeah, it's a pain point.
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Let's just say, let's just say for you guys, for you and your and the IP community, somebody reached out to you and okay, so we we we could use some guidance on the clinical side to help the the patient client make some better decision and better informed decisions.
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But what is so presuming that there is many times an effort to direct them to a clinician, then are there times that is the pain point that people then don't con they don't actually connect with the clinician a lot of times and therefore you're stuck trying to like make decisions that are sort of out of your lane and you're just stuck?
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And or is it that you actually wish, you really wish that they would work with a uh uh in sequence, have connected with a clinician before they reach out to you or something else?
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Yeah.
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The pain point exists.
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I'll uh I can I can tell you by the way, by starting with the emotions that I feel.
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The emotions are they don't feel like they got their money's worth.
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They feel like they wasted their time.
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They feel like, yeah, they got some, maybe some information out of me, but why didn't they, they they're realizing with me that they should have gone to a clinician first, but they they didn't, for whatever reason, they didn't start with that.
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And so now they've they feel like they've wasted some money, some time and energy speaking with me.
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Now you could say maybe there's a good, there's a there's a silver lining, and that's that because they met me and I was able to course correct them with a suggestion of starting with the clinician because they're your guiding light, they're your captain, they're your compass to help keep you on focused on what are the low-hanging fruit issues first, that that prevented them from doing things the wrong way for years.
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But the the pain point to me is it's like if we could reach more people and and tell them about this ideal sequencing on a curve that works with the majority of people, we could save people's time, money, and energy.
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We could get them answers, get them better quicker.
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That's what the that's the real issue is feeling like we're wasting their time a little bit.
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And we try to screen, but it it sometimes they get through.
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Uh like the to say when I say we screen, we we don't want to push people away in some sort of weird, uncomfortable, aggressive way, but we do encourage people that work with us to first, you know, have you seen a clinician?
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Are you are you diagnosed?
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What's your focus?
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Because I've had this conversation and in the 29 years that I've been doing this, I could tell you I've probably had five, six, seven hundred clients where I I this is what happened.
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And and and and so to to land the airplane, as I like to say on this, uh, on this podcast, we need to do that.
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And now that I know from the last time we chatted that your wife is in a flight instructor, that has a whole different meaning for me than before.
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But go ahead.
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Yes.
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Yeah, yeah.
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But bottom line is we want we want to save people's time, money, and energy.
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We want that it's overwhelming.
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How many people come to your door?
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They're overwhelmed, they're their their their spouse and them are not on the same page.
00:18:40.600 --> 00:18:42.600
And I I see these stories enough.
00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:47.720
Even if it is 25%, 35%, it's enough to where I'm seeing it on a weekly basis.
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:51.559
And you get to this point where it's like, gosh, how can we reach people?
00:18:51.640 --> 00:19:01.720
And this is one way that we're doing it is talking about it and saying it's so important to really understand the bet, I'm not, you're not going to get all your answers, but to get a better idea of what's the low-hanging fruit.
00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:02.600
What if you sell Dr.
00:19:02.680 --> 00:19:12.440
Mark Sue and he said, Yeah, definitely the environment's something we want to look at, but I've I've done my arithmetic and I and I have done my math and I've done, I've done my analysis on you.
00:19:12.600 --> 00:19:17.960
And I think we need to focus on the gut first, or some other thing that you would say that would be more appropriate here.
00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:26.920
That that would be helpful because what if what if a lot of people, the analysis paralysis, that's the other thing, is they get so overwhelmed.
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.640
And I know what this feels like firsthand, that they don't do anything.
00:19:29.799 --> 00:19:33.319
They just literally stop and don't do anything because they don't know where to start.
00:19:33.400 --> 00:19:42.680
And everywhere they turn, it's, oh, well, we can solve your problem for 10 grand, or we can have a concierge service and it costs 20 grand, and they don't know that they don't have enough context.
00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:45.480
It's like, well, what's the common denominator in a lot of those cases?
00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:53.960
A lot of them is a combination of a lack of initial research and working with a functional clinician who knows how to deal with chronic illness to help guide them through the process.
00:19:54.360 --> 00:19:54.600
Okay.
00:19:54.840 --> 00:20:08.039
So uh, you know, as I'm thinking this is out, as I'm just thinking this out kind of lifetime here, uh there's a lot of different different experiences, like patient experiences or the whole dynamic between an IEP, a patient client, and a human clinician.
00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:11.720
There's there's multiple variables here, and I'm thinking about different different experiences.
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:14.840
So let's let's just narrow that down, at least for me in my own head.
00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:15.160
All right.
00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.799
So let's say there's an individual who uh so there's a question in here that is is really fascinating.
00:20:20.120 --> 00:20:28.120
I've had in sort of private conversations, I mean just one to small, not not on our board, okay, but uh with an ICI.
00:20:28.360 --> 00:20:39.640
Let's just take a person who they they they read here, whatever on online, internet podcasts, et cetera, so social media, whatever it is, that um, hey, mold can be a really big problem in your home.
00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:45.240
So they they see something, they are confident it is visible mold.
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.559
And let's but let's just say that there isn't anybody in the family who actually has a meaningful health problem.
00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:52.039
All right.
00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:57.000
Just like straight not that everyone, they're not they're not perfect and everything's like happy go lucky.
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:05.240
But there's nothing, there's it's not the kind of patients that we talk about a lot, but whether on the podcast or you know in the board meetings or just, you know, collect collaboratively as uh practitioners or whatever.
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:11.960
And so they reach out to you and they're saying, like, I heard this can be really bad and I see mold and can you come inspect my home?
00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:20.120
So in that kind of scenario, let's just even take one more step and just say for uh presumption here that you do some kind of, as you like to say, boost on the ground, right?
00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:20.840
Some kind of in-person.
00:21:21.079 --> 00:21:23.240
It's not a virtual, like just discussion point.
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:28.120
Let's say you actually go in there and you're like, okay, so look, this person is they're asking, right?
00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.720
They're they're forthright, assertively asking me to do some kind of inspection.
00:21:31.799 --> 00:21:33.000
And let's go middle ground here.
00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:34.840
Let's say, let's let's say they have a three-story home.
00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:41.400
You don't do all three stories and basement, and you're not, you're not doing the full kit and caboodle, but you're not just looking at that one spot in that room.
00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:42.920
Okay, let's say you're you're somewhere in between.
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:47.400
You're doing a a relatively meaningful inspection, but it's not necessarily soup to nuts.
00:21:47.480 --> 00:21:47.799
Okay.
00:21:47.960 --> 00:21:50.279
So there's some time, some money, some effort spent.
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:58.360
So without thinking about the the the patient and family's response, okay, and you find that, yeah, there's some, there's some findings here.
00:21:58.600 --> 00:22:00.519
It's not clean, but like a lot of homes aren't clean.
00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.960
We on our we already talked about that before.
00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:08.120
So let's say, okay, yeah, what you see there, it is in fact, it is verifiably a mold problem.
00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:10.440
And yeah, there's some findings here that can be dealt with.
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:12.920
But the patient's not the pay the family's actually not sick.
00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:13.960
What's your thought on that?
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:19.720
Okay, independent of the person's response and the family's response, just from your side of the picture, what you're thinking about whether they
00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:28.440
Aaron Powell I think they should correct any areas that they find.
00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:29.799
Yeah, I'm with you.
00:22:30.120 --> 00:22:30.519
Remedian.
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.200
Clean.
00:22:32.360 --> 00:22:32.600
Yeah.
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:33.480
Okay.
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:34.039
Yeah.
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:41.799
Right.
00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:43.160
So in a perfect world, right?
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:47.240
Because the conversation I've had with a couple people, you know, colleagues of ours is the following.
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:50.920
It's like, well, if they're not symptomatic, do they really have mold-related illness?
00:22:51.079 --> 00:22:52.519
Or do they really have SERS, right?
00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:53.319
If they don't have symptoms.
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:53.559
Right.
00:22:54.120 --> 00:23:13.960
But normally, by the way, and and you you could just set the absolute for the sake of an example, but normally that's the elephant in the room question, which is well, how do you is there any literature that would suggest that a person may not be symptomatic, in other words, they're asymptomatic, but then 20, 30 years later they develop some sort of an illness or disease because of this underlying exposure?
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.440
Trevor Burrus That's that's absolutely my thinking, right?
00:23:16.600 --> 00:23:21.880
So who the pe the person or people I've talked with about this before, they were kind of taken a little bit taken aback.
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:27.000
Not not like, hey, you're you're crazy, Mark, or whatnot, but it's just it was kind of like almost like a, whoa, I've never thought about that.
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:27.319
Right?
00:23:27.400 --> 00:23:37.000
Where I'm thinking, look, in a from a purely like functional medicine perspective of just root cause issues, like it people don't become symptomatic like overnight or zero to sixty, as we've talked about before.
00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:45.480
So this is something that, you know, in the IFM world of teaching, it's like an antecedent or you know, it's a preceding event that it it takes time, but it can become a problem, right?
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:52.039
So for me, in a perfect world, if we have that finding, then ideally we we don't just ignore it.
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:52.440
Okay.
00:23:52.600 --> 00:24:07.079
And our our our friend Peg De Tullio, who, you know, super, super, always super gracious to her, she's the one who kind of ushered me into this whole this whole world years ago when I reached out to her and as a SERS practitioner, and and you know, she she likes she historically used the term pre-sur, right?
00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:08.600
Which I it's kind of a cool name, right?
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:13.160
So whether we talk about SERS or mold related illness, but we're talking about some kind of mold illness, okay.
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:18.440
So, you know, she uh is in that SERS world as you have a network community in there as well.
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:23.000
So whether it's pre-surfs, pre-mold illness related illness, whatever, but the someone may not have symptoms.
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:34.840
But I've had patients who have meaningful minimum very minimal symptoms, but I we couldn't figure out after digging, you know, differential diagnoses, digging A through G, A through J, we dig, dig, dig, and we can't figure out like why this person's dizzy.
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:41.400
I go digging for this thing, this this issue, and like they met, I think, every marker that I looked at by the SERS you know protocol.
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:44.840
And so, and then we look at his environment, and it's it's a problem.
00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:45.079
Right.
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:46.600
But all he had was dizziness.
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:49.400
So anyway, so I that's just a starting point.
00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:53.640
If a person's so a person doesn't have symptoms, but they reached out to you.
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:58.200
So now let's layer in where what are potential conflicts that arise there.
00:24:58.360 --> 00:25:00.759
For you, you're like, yeah, ideally you still deal with it.
00:25:00.840 --> 00:25:05.720
But now the person, now you're telling me like, but what happens a lot is the person kind of feels like, wait, I kind of wasted my time or money.
00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:07.319
I I need to talk to a practitioner.
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:10.279
So what are possible scenarios there that is our conflicts?
00:25:10.600 --> 00:25:18.680
Well, for me, one of the conflicts, to be honest with you, and again, you can wrote me back into the they didn't see a clinician first, but even in the example you gave me, everything's fine.
00:25:18.840 --> 00:25:23.559
But one thing you said is you didn't really do like, you didn't just look at one little area, but you didn't do all three levels.
00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.160
You know, you did somewhere in between.
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:28.680
This happens a lot in discussions with clients who want to hire me.
00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:39.079
And I get done explaining to them, I go, I realize that you want me to focus on the master suite or primary suite, because that's where you spend the most of time, maybe the living room, because that's where you spend the rest of your time in, because you're mainly indoors.
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:47.720
I go, but you can have a mold exposure, if we're talking about mold, uh coming from the second bedroom or the third bedroom or wherever, somewhere else in the home.
00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.480
And if I don't do a whole house assessment, I can miss something.
00:25:51.720 --> 00:26:05.079
And that is often the reasons why IEPs like me don't do what we call targeted surveys or targeted assessments, where it's literally just somebody almost like an insurance loss, where it's like, we just want you to look at the hall bathroom because the hall bathroom had a shower leak.
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:07.160
I don't want you looking in the other bedrooms, nowhere else.
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.960
You have one specific scope of work that's targeted.
00:26:10.120 --> 00:26:10.279
Yeah.
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.360
I don't do targeted, I mean, don't get me wrong, certain situations I'll do it.
00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:27.880
But as a as a practice and a general rule, if someone wants me to come out to the house, and this goes full circle back into why it's important to start with the clinician, because it's gonna cost more, there's gonna be more samples, there could be more cleaning, more remediation, is I know better.
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:33.960
I know we've had a number of cases where you'll appreciate this, Mark, where years ago I humored targeted.
00:26:34.120 --> 00:26:35.400
I'm like, all right, I'll just go out there.
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.720
I said my piece, I said all my micisms and my disclaimers, and they all they were fine with them.
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:42.039
And so then they're like, cool, so can you come out?
00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:52.279
So I come out and then we do the thing and we find it, we f we, we, we don't necessarily find a source, but we do sampling that indicates that the room that they were concerned about has an issue.
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:57.319
Fast forward in that storyline, come to find out that the issue wasn't originating from that bedroom.
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:06.279
It was as it was originating from a bathroom across the hallway, but they didn't want me to look in the hallway because they were so focused on budget and scope, which I I I appreciate that.
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:15.559
I'm just saying this is why it's hard to do that because we don't even have the problem with targeted assessments too is that you usually only have data limited to one area in the home.
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:21.480
And as you get with your line of work, the more data, the more trends I have, I can see patterns and relationships.
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:26.120
And if I would have been able to do the assessment the right way, I'd have been able to say, Well, look at this.
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.680
Yeah, your bedroom's got some issues going on, but it's not coming from the bedroom, it's coming from this other area here.
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:32.039
I'm glad we found that out.
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:39.160
Could you imagine telling them in a targeted approach to say, all right, well, let's just have you clean the master bedroom or the master suite and resample it.
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:43.000
They resample it, they get disappointing results, and they go, What's going on?
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:47.240
And then it's one of those, well, I tried to tell you uh to look at the whole house, but you didn't want to listen.
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:49.720
And and and that gets into deeper issues, Mark.
00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:57.319
Like, well, my husband, usually it's the husbands that are the pain in the butt, didn't think, think this is all bogus stuff, and and and and I and he wouldn't let me do it.
00:27:57.400 --> 00:27:59.559
And I'm gonna keep on tagging it whenever I can.
00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:07.240
This is why it's also important to go back to starting with the clinician, because when you have a doctor, remember when you grew up as a kid and a doctor knew everything?
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:08.440
That's helpful.
00:28:08.600 --> 00:28:17.240
It gives them enough justification that says, well, maybe we will pull out of our savings account, or maybe we won't go on that trip to Europe this year because we need to focus on this and get this done.
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:36.600
Whereas if it's just this random IEP named Michael Schantz who told you about a whole house assessment, certain personalities, certain people that don't come from our community, they they just they skip these essential steps thinking that they're maybe saving time, or maybe they're worried about mark people fear-mongering or just trying to make a dollar.
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.360
That's a real concern in this industry.
00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.200
But at the end of the day, this is what we're trying to avoid is all these what-if scenarios.
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:42.680
Yeah.
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:43.160
So, okay.
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:52.440
So that that's an important piece you bring up is that at least for your practice, your your practice style or process, you you basically don't do the targeted.
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:54.920
You only do like it's it's all it's kind of like all or nothing.
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.799
We we assess the whole the whole building or we we largely don't assess, right?
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:01.000
That's pretty much it.
00:29:01.160 --> 00:29:02.440
I mean, with exceptions, but yeah.
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:03.160
Yeah, okay.
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:04.920
So that that that does change things.
00:29:05.000 --> 00:29:06.759
So that I I can understand that.
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:11.000
Okay, so example number two, and again, just thinking on the cuff here, off the cuff.
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:16.600
Uh so let's say uh I was just thinking so so the patient, so that that same patient uh okay.
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:32.279
So the same patient uh who doesn't really have symptoms, okay, they have a family, whatever, let's just say um two parents and two kids, and they don't have meaningful illness symptoms, but they so what what what what does it look like or whether it's past experiences or yeah, I'm sure it's more based on past experiences.
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:46.759
So if you did do a targeted assessment, right, historically you just gave examples of where things didn't go great, I guess, or or well or ideal, because uh, hey, we found that, but we didn't know the source was actually from the bathroom across the hall.
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:51.799
But in the end, and I and I'm I don't sound almost like a little bit of a challenging question.
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:53.079
Is is it that bad?
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:55.640
I mean, uh what what is the what is the major pain point there?
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:59.079
Like, do you f is it that you or other IPs like get that much flack?
00:29:59.160 --> 00:30:01.400
In in some ways, if I do the parallel, right?
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:10.680
Like if you if you were to say up front, like you say, all the micosomes and like, well, you know, we could do this target thing, but we we don't know if that's really the root cause and we don't know if there's more going on.
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:17.400
And so you you just gotta know that, you know, you gotta know what you're owning as a responsible and taking responsibility over for that decision.
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:24.120
You know, is is it that like it's it's that much flack later, um, which I can understand because so you go back to that emotional piece, right?
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:26.759
Like we spent the money, time, and effort, like, geez, we wish we knew better.
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:28.759
But at the same time, like they made that decision.
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.480
And so, and and I'm and this is very relatable, right?
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:34.840
Because it it happens a lot in in our easy example.
00:30:35.079 --> 00:30:41.720
Let's just say um somebody's got a uh they have a a pain, uh just easy, let's just say they have a a pain in their leg, right?
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.319
And they're like, I I don't want to like just give me something to make it go away, right?
00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:47.160
Almost like a band-aid kind of thing, right?
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:53.960
Which a lot of patients talk about like we don't want band-aids in our community of line of work with our colleagues and the patients we see, a lot of people are like poo-poo the panda.
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:58.200
They don't want the band-aids, but hey, like for me, that's why it's a little different than uh a lot of the board members.
00:30:58.360 --> 00:31:02.360
Like we have a little bit more of a more of a mainstream crowd, a little bit of a hybrid.
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.600
So let's just say somebody just says, I just want a band-aid, right?
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:13.000
And then it goes on for three, four, or six months, and then all of a sudden, like, okay, I'm tired of the band aid, and then they find out, oh, the root cause behind this is I've actually got nerve pinching from my lower back.
00:31:13.160 --> 00:31:16.120
Okay, and so now they get better, but they're like, I wish I knew that before.
00:31:16.279 --> 00:31:18.120
Okay, well, they made that choice, right?
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.840
And I guess for me, I'm not, I'm not like gonna I'm I'm not, it's it doesn't hit me emotionally.
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:29.480
I can understand there's a big difference here because we're talking about like much more time, effort, and money when you're talking about, you know, remediating a whole house.
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:41.240
But I guess that's what I'm asking here is is it, yeah, is it a is it a thing where it's more of a matter of because there's so much more at stake with the way that many IPs might operate, where it's like we we don't want to look only targeted.
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:54.680
And if that is the case, if it's the emotional piece, then uh is there a compromise that can be made, you know, internally among the IP community who may have that approach, whereby, okay, yeah, it does kind of suck, but hey, we can't we can't own it all.
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:55.319
Yeah.
00:31:55.480 --> 00:32:01.720
I I can talk about the pain, the personal thing first, since I because I I know you sense it and we've talked before.
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:08.440
You there's some of it certainly is the the the proverbial repercussions, the the Mike, what are you doing, man?
00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:10.039
Why didn't you do the whole house?
00:32:10.120 --> 00:32:17.960
Like I made a loose maybe it's a maybe it's a clinician, but they didn't really work with the patient, but they know that the patient's in my neck of the woods, and so they just say go see Mike.
00:32:18.120 --> 00:32:24.200
And then eventually they start working with that clinician or somebody, or it doesn't matter who, but they go find a functional doctor and it's like, wait, Michael did what?
00:32:24.360 --> 00:32:29.079
He recommended air samples, spore traps in the living room and he was at your house for 45 minutes?
00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:29.960
My gosh.
00:32:30.120 --> 00:32:43.559
And so there is a sense of like wanting to honor a best practice, which would be whole house in nature for people who have I mean, it really should be that way for everybody, because no one listening to this would have any issue with the whole house assessment if it costs 10 cents.
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:48.519
The issue is always around the money and the time uh to do a whole house versus a targeted.
00:32:48.840 --> 00:32:51.880
If it costs 10 cents to do a whole house, why are we even talking about this on the podcast?
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:53.000
It'd just be a done deal.
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:56.120
And and and where I'm going with that is is yeah, I think that's a real thing.
00:32:56.200 --> 00:33:02.920
There's uh it's such a emotionally charged at times industry because we don't have black and white answers.
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:08.039
I don't have a cheat sheet that says 14 spores is okay, but 15 spores, your arm's gonna fall off.
00:33:08.120 --> 00:33:18.440
You don't have a cheat sheet that says this mycotoxin or this cytokine blood marker, if it's one unit less than what it was, you'd be fine, but if not, you're gonna have fatigue for life.
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:21.480
It it's a combination of patterns and a range.
00:33:21.640 --> 00:33:25.880
And that range is dependent on in you, it's the person and their sensitivity.
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:27.160
For us, it's the environment.
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.200
Like a gust of wind can change what's in your home floating around.
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:33.880
Uh, it's never a static, never changes condition.
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:46.519
And so full circle back to the pain point is it's because it's not black and white, there is probably a perception of people are really wanting to make sure we're following what the consensus of a best practice whole house assessment is.
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.400
Because if not, and I hate to say it like this, they can blame it on that.
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:51.240
Say, well, you didn't look at the whole house.
00:33:51.480 --> 00:34:03.240
The other piece of it though, and it's and it's what I brought up first, is it literally wastes more time and money because if you do the targeted, the vaguest odds on this is that you're going to have to repeat something.
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:04.519
You're gonna miss something.
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:08.599
You're gonna have to reassess, and now you're spending the money, you've spent the money on the targeted.
00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:12.759
And bonus, now you get to spend more money on a whole house assessment, but it gets even better.
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:13.719
Just wait, there's more.
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:20.599
It sounds like a now you've got now you have to reclean, you'll end up maybe you end up remediating more, and now you re-clean the house.
00:34:20.759 --> 00:34:22.440
Oh, but wait, cool news for you.
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:29.720
Professional small particle cleaning can cost anywhere from$15,000 to$80,000 in a 2,000 square foot home.
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.159
But hey, don't worry about it because we'll have you or your friends do it.
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:37.559
That doesn't happen because they don't have any friends and they're bedridden, so they don't have the strength to do it.
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:42.760
It's so overwhelming that we're like, wait, we've learned time out.
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:44.840
We've learned from these thousands of experience.
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:59.400
I mean, if I well, if this was a matter of me wanting to find a model to make money, I could target the hell out of that thing and then somehow make myself be like the best thing since sliced bread, and then just keep it going, because that would generate more income for me.
00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:06.440
But if you stop and think about it, I'm actually removing myself out until we have a better understanding to see if I'm the right call for you.
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:18.519
Because to your example earlier, if it's somebody's not symptomatic, they're they're healthy, they're there's no complaints whatsoever, but they do have a little bit of mold in their vanity in the whole bathroom.
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:22.920
You know, I don't have a problem if someone says, well, we don't want to spray it to kill it.
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:29.639
We're not like grandpa and let's use bleach, but let's just focus on just removing that properly following industry best practices.
00:35:29.720 --> 00:35:30.280
I'm okay with that.
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.920
I'm not saying you always have to do a whole house assessment if you're that individual.
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:51.159
We're clearly talking about the subset population of people who have either established chronic illness or something's not right that's not that likely, I'm trying to use my words carefully, Mark, are is likely contributed to some sort of susceptibility that won't go away unless something else is done.
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:51.559
Yeah.
00:35:51.639 --> 00:36:07.559
So I think I I, you know, I mean, uh look cogn cognitively, I know what you're talking about with the by by observation experience about the uh time, effort, money thing, but uh, you know, I think that's the the gravity of that is weighing on me a lot more here as I'm hearing it, you know, in more depth.
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:12.599
Because uh in sort of like in parallel, like look, this this is what we do at RootSeek, right?
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.519
Um with with patients too, is we ask them, we ask a lot of them with testing.
00:36:16.679 --> 00:36:18.199
We have them do a lot of testing.
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:26.360
And uh the non-insurance covered portion of the testing, uh, we just had this conversation in our weekly meeting here with the uh administrative team today.
00:36:26.440 --> 00:36:36.920
Um, you know, it's it's maybe top end, let's call it like around 1,500, okay, which is all things considered for testing, it could be a lot, lot worse, but it's fifteen hundred dollars, okay?
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:41.320
And it could be between six hundred to fifteen hundred, depending on what they choose to do.
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:43.559
But we we have it's still a lot of effort.
00:36:43.720 --> 00:36:51.960
They go to lab core and draw like 12 tubes, they go to questler draw 12 tubes, they collect poop at home, they collect urine at home, they you know, do a breath test at home, and then blah, blah, blah, and then there's some money involved.
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:58.840
But we always say to people, like, yeah, because we're we're trying to collect all the information at one time so that we can do a more complete job up front.
00:36:58.920 --> 00:37:02.440
And granted, we are gearing this towards sicker patients, right?
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:05.800
I mean, have I have we had patients who are really aren't that symptomatic who've done this?
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.559
We've had a few, but they're rare birds, you know, and they're and they're okay with it, right?
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:10.519
They're go-getters.
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:16.039
So that would be like the patient who, you know, asks you to do a whole house inspection, but they're not even symptom really symptomatic.
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:16.760
They just saw some of them.
00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:17.639
We've had those.
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:18.119
Right?
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:23.960
Yeah, I think we've we've probably all had some of those, but they're they're the rare err bird, all things, you know, across the spectrum.
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:37.960
So so I I relate with that, uh, but as I said earlier, yeah, it's it's a different ordeal when it's you know, it's a one-time, let's say even like a one-time fifteen hundred, and yeah, I have to take a you know, multiple different attempts to collect all this information for testing.
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:51.320
But when you're talking about remediating a a home and it could be, you know, you got people disrupting your your rhythm of life, people are in your home, and then uh sometimes you have to move out for a little bit of time if it's a more meaningful thing, and then it's a lot more money, it's uh it's a lot more time involved.
00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:52.280
I'm feeling you.
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:58.840
All right, I'm I'm feeling that um so let's let's kind of bring it bring it more pragmatic here.
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:07.000
Uh so let's just let's just remove that part of the argument of uh or the the entertaining the direction of a um a partial look.
00:38:07.240 --> 00:38:07.400
Okay.
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:18.440
Let's flip the script and let's say let's not talk about modifying the the assessment, but changing the the basis of who the patient is, which we've already we both have talked about.
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:21.800
If it's a kind of a sicker patient, okay, it makes sense.
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:30.519
It it certainly makes sense, even it's easier to make sense of to have a more complete, you know, both the an inspector and the human clinician involved.
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:35.400
If it's but what if it's a somebody again, let's just stick with that same example of the person who's just not that symptomatic?
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:36.119
All right.
00:38:36.360 --> 00:38:39.800
Is it is it a little bit more reasonable in some ways to you at all?
00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:42.760
And I'm not trying to, it's not a redundant question, it's not a leading question.
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:44.599
It's it's it's an exploratory question.
00:38:44.760 --> 00:39:05.079
Is it more reasonable in that scenario when they're not symptomatic that you deal with something less completely, you know, knowing that, hey, there might be something bigger going on over time, you know, that we didn't identify because we didn't do a full assessment, or they chose just to do part of the sort of check the task list of uh remediation.
00:39:05.240 --> 00:39:08.119
They didn't they decide not to do everything because that happens all the time too, right?
00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:09.320
People don't do the whole list.
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:10.199
How does that fit?
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:11.559
How does that feel to you emotionally?
00:39:11.639 --> 00:39:15.960
Because they're not so apt to come back and go like, geez, uh, you know, I'm still sick, right?
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:17.480
I did all blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:19.240
And I know I didn't do the whole thing, but I'm still sick.
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:20.920
In this case, they don't actually have symptoms.
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:22.760
Any experiences there to reflect on?
00:39:23.240 --> 00:39:23.800
Plenty.
00:39:24.119 --> 00:39:26.920
So there's still a pain point there with those people too?
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:35.639
No, I think I have, I think I've I think I'm gonna be able to break bread on an inquiring question that I think if nothing else, we would hope there's another alternative.
00:39:35.720 --> 00:39:36.760
But let's see how I do here.
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:39.720
Everything that we do in life is risk management.
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:46.599
You, for example, when you drove to work this morning, as assuming that you drove, decided to put on the normal car seat belt.
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:54.760
You didn't put on a five of a five-point harness that you would wear driving a cup car, watching a Sunday race going over 200 miles an hour.
00:39:54.840 --> 00:40:01.639
That would be a safer seat belt if you had a five-point harness and really hold you in your seat versus the shoulder strap and the waist belt.
00:40:01.720 --> 00:40:04.039
It's the same thing with any other modality.
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.519
If you're sick, maybe you won't go to the grocery store.
00:40:06.599 --> 00:40:08.199
If you're healthy, maybe you will.
00:40:08.360 --> 00:40:13.079
You know, it's r we're always talking about this from risk management.
00:40:13.240 --> 00:40:25.800
And to tailor into the question is it's an uncomfortable thing to talk about because nobody, especially it seems like in today's day and age with where us being hyper-aware, I would say to a fault.
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:28.920
There's too many things out there, we're getting too much information.
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:34.440
We know about what's happening across the world, let alone what's happening locally, we're overstimulated.
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:44.840
And there ends up being for a lot of people, this is my experience, this feeling of like they're not saying it, but they're basically implying that they want zero risk, they want to be sure and all these things.
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:58.920
So now to tailor to your example, if somebody is healthy and they just they have an issue that pops up, a water leak in the water heater closet, and they don't want to do Mike Schrant's tier one medically important assessment.
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.360
Don't, don't start with just a targeted assessment.
00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:05.400
Have somebody go out there who you trust locally.
00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:07.400
Uh, it won't cost you as much money.
00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:11.079
Have them go out and take a look, deal with it, and and be done with it.
00:41:11.240 --> 00:41:14.679
Questions, I it's these questions that part's easy for me to address.
00:41:14.840 --> 00:41:15.240
Just do that.
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:15.960
I can't help.
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:17.159
Have you done that?
00:41:17.240 --> 00:41:20.760
Have you just referred people to someone locally who's not a medically sensitive, you know, informed.
00:41:21.240 --> 00:41:26.920
When it comes up, I don't really get a lot of the you know, this is probably gonna shock you, Mark, but I don't get a lot of insurance work.
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:34.440
I don't get a lot of, hey, I just had a I do from time to time for people who are just scanning the internet and and the webs and finding us.
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:36.920
But when it's this scenario is not common for you.
00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:38.440
It's not it used to be.
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:42.679
I mean, you know, 15, 20 years ago, you know, that was my bread and butter.
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:48.760
And and I think there's an approach, but the funny thing is, is it's just it's dealing, it's accepting the risk, right?
00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:51.400
It's like saying, I know I'm Mr.
00:41:51.480 --> 00:41:58.440
Smith, I'm healthy, I had a water heater leak in my water heater closet, and I feel and that's the whole thing, right?
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:00.840
This is the paradox of, well, do they know that they're healthy?
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.199
Do they know, and and do are they just gonna be fine and suck it up buttercup?
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:13.639
But if they if the answer is yes, I'm not gonna think about this anymore other than the face value of what's going on, then hire the local targeted uh specter to at least come out and give some third-party guidance.
00:42:13.720 --> 00:42:19.079
Or if you really want to get risky, go straight towards a mold remediation company and have them come out and take a look at it.
00:42:19.159 --> 00:42:26.519
Uh, with almost certainty they're gonna give you an estimate to do something, and you hope that it's with integrity and it's best practice and all that.
00:42:26.599 --> 00:42:30.679
And then they can button it all up, be done, and you can go on living your life.
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:36.440
In my experience, Mark, I'll have somebody do that and they'll be like, well, thank you for the referral.
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:44.280
Um and I do that, and then a week or two later, I'll get an email, a follow-up from them, and they'll be like, Hey, is my house contaminated?
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:49.079
Do I need to clean the rest of my house now because of this mold that was in the water heater closet?
00:42:49.240 --> 00:43:01.400
And it just, it just, there's just a I I don't want to necessarily get us off on a tangent, but simply to say the other challenge is a lack of education, a lack of understanding, how do I react in this situation?
00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:03.720
Some people treat mold like it's plutonium.
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:11.400
Other people treat it like no big deal, like it's it's like whatever, you know, uh one with the world and who cares about the moldy, musty smell in basement.
00:43:11.559 --> 00:43:26.519
And I think I think that's why when we talked about this idea of a an appropriate model, it starts with a trusted, free educational resource place that you can go to give an idea of what world am I in when it comes to my concerns for water damage from mold.
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.280
And then it goes, do I need to go further?
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:31.320
And that's up to the individual, Mark, because I c I don't know if Mr.
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:33.639
Smith in my example truly is healthy.
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:39.320
He's telling me he's healthy, but does he have an underlying inflammation, inflammatory issue going on that he's not aware of?
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:45.639
He hasn't, he hasn't, he's asymptomatic or whatever the term that you used was, but he he's having it, but he doesn't think anything about it.
00:43:45.720 --> 00:43:47.320
So why would you want to address the basement?
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:47.720
Okay.
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:48.280
All right.
00:43:48.360 --> 00:43:51.400
So let's pivot over to um, you know, but pragmatic, right?
00:43:51.480 --> 00:44:02.039
So uh is the take-home message here from you know, from from your you direct you specifically here, is the take-home message like just a sort of like call to action and counsel on advice?
00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:16.519
Hey, if hey, anybody listening, if you think you might have an issue with your indoor environment in your domicile apartment, condo, home, whatever it is, best case scenario, ideal scenario is to talk with a human clinician um before you call an IEP.
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:18.360
Is it like that simple and straightforward?
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:19.720
Or is there something else in between?
00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:25.639
of like, yeah, how do we how do we make that work where the um the clinicians and IPs can somehow connect?
00:44:25.720 --> 00:44:27.000
Is that a is that a different pain point?
00:44:27.079 --> 00:44:30.440
Aaron Powell To your first part of the question, I think the the short answer is yes.
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.280
Start with education.
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:43.559
You know, you have Iseai.org, you have the SURS X Institute, you have a, you have a few, you have Change of the Air Foundation, you have really good organizations out there that can give you context.
00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:45.079
Start with that for sure.
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:46.760
If you're if you're if you're new to this.
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:49.559
Step two, get a clinician, a functional clinician.
00:44:49.720 --> 00:45:05.000
The same places SURS X Institute, International Society for Environmentally Acquired Illness, Mark and I have been avoiding saying the whole thing up until now, but Iseai.org, you find doctors that are in your area, do the discovery calls and start there.
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:19.639
That call to action by doing that has the odds in my experience, and I've worked with in over 7,600 projects in my career, some repeat clients, a lot of new clients, is that you you'll have a better, you'll have more clarity of where to focus on.
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:29.639
Because if someone says you're being exposed to something in your home, it won't take you but 45 seconds, especially with AI now, to look up what that means and it spits out well, is it chemicals?
00:45:29.720 --> 00:45:30.920
Is it, is it EMF?
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:38.920
Is it, is it uh hyperticulate due to just a dirty home, a carpeting and your your your husband's a hoarder and you can't get rid of any of those items.
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:42.760
And so you're just living in generally a dirty home and that's causing respiratory distress.
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:50.519
There's so much overwhelm that you need a quarterback and I'm calling the quarterback the clinician the quarterback to help narrow it down.
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:55.000
And not to say that if you have an active water leak that you shouldn't get on that right now.
00:45:55.079 --> 00:46:01.159
We don't want you to wait a month to deal with the active water leak because you're dealing with talking with the clinician and setting up the initial calls or testing.
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:07.400
But if you start with that, the the vague odds are, that's what I like to say, the odds are that you're going to win on that and save money.
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:08.280
That's the win.
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:15.320
Save money, time and energy is very high because you'll you'll reduce the chances of having to duplicate efforts.
00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:35.559
Now we had to hire a second inspector or a third or the remediation company that we hired, we didn't slow down and we realized they were what you and I call Mark a spray and prey company where they just, their big cell is we want to spray a harsh antimicrobial in your home and we'll kill the mold, as if killing the mold solves the inflammation part that a majority of people have with mold.
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:46.840
This isn't the 1950s anymore where we're just worried about aspergillosis growing in your lungs because you're in the recovery room of a hospital that's that where viability of the mold and killing it would be important.
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:54.360
Those sorts of things and and and and to put the the bow tie on top of all of it, Mark, it's a lot of times it's because it's not what they know, it's what they don't know.
00:46:54.519 --> 00:47:04.360
And if they get to pump the brakes a little bit and get that education, get that clinician, they'll have so it my experience is they'll have so many light bulb moments like, I didn't even think about that.
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:05.880
I'm so glad I talked to you first.
00:47:06.039 --> 00:47:07.720
And that may reinforce it.
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:23.720
And it just that the batting average of successful projects that I've been involved with from the emotional pain point of of feeling like we really honored their time when they because we're charging them for my you know my time and all that, also to minimizing the duplication of efforts is likely going to be what happens to them.
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:24.440
That's the takeaway.
00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:25.400
No, that's good.
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:26.519
This is um this is good.
00:47:26.599 --> 00:47:31.320
Yeah because you know from obviously my experience is the complete reverse, right?
00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:45.480
I don't know that well first of all, yeah you I think you know like we well no we've yeah I can't remember if we've had any I don't recall off top my head if we've had anybody um come through RootSeek as a patient where they'd already worked with an inspector.
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:47.320
Oh no no that's not that's not true.
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:48.440
Yeah we've had that happen.
00:47:48.519 --> 00:47:57.000
We've had so we've had scenarios where our local IEP who you and I both know very well has um you know referred people to us so they they would have gone through an IEP first.
00:47:57.240 --> 00:48:06.440
In that case so it doesn't uh it's not quite your pain point example because all right then that IEP was directing them somewhere and then they did touch base with somebody, right?
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:09.639
But there's plenty of people out there where they didn't connect with a clinician.
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:21.000
But you know more often for me bec in our in our sort of uh primary care office setting then um its symptoms develop and then we somewhere along the way assess for this, you know, whether right up front or not it varies.
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:24.679
But uh and it varies by the initial intake, right?
00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:26.119
Like there's things you're looking for.
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:32.760
Largely how sick they are and then and then secondly would be if they if they bring it up which is not so common for us.
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:37.400
But yeah we'll do that what's that sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you.
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:45.320
I just want to say the other thing that kind of goes off an extension of maybe what I think you asked me also as well is the relationship between the clinician and the IEP.
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:56.599
Over the years and and you and I are an example of this and I have a number of others where what's good about that is with the patient's permission, which we ask, we can have dialogue.
00:48:56.760 --> 00:49:01.079
It might be a 30 second email or something and we get to stay in touch.
00:49:01.240 --> 00:49:05.720
And the purpose of that is to to again honor the patient's time, money and energy.
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.159
Well did they do the cleaning yet?
00:49:07.320 --> 00:49:08.599
No, we're still waiting for them to do that.
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:09.240
Okay, thank you.
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:12.039
Then we'll do our follow-up clinically with them after that's done.
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:17.559
No sense in wasting the patient's money only for me to tell them to come back in two months and that kind of thing.
00:49:17.720 --> 00:49:21.000
There's a lot of energy and time saving by doing that.
00:49:21.240 --> 00:49:33.480
It also gets you to understand the unique practice as an IEP if I can focus on the IEPs real quick is I've been modeling this under on the idea of hey if you're a patient, you know, keep these things, these points in mind.
00:49:33.720 --> 00:49:49.400
As an IEP, I know it's tough out there, assuming that you're not desperate for work and so you'll do anything and you're really trying to serve the patient's best interest, the issue is is do you really want them, if they haven't worked with the clinician, they're not working with anybody to do that?
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:55.240
Because how many times ask yourself this as an IEP, how many times did they start asking you the questions do I really need to do this?
00:49:55.400 --> 00:49:57.320
Do I really need to do all that other stuff?
00:49:57.559 --> 00:49:59.480
Why do I need to focus on endotoxins?
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:01.320
I read something about endotoxins that's not mold.
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:09.960
That's gram negative bacteria and when you're working with a clinician it helps minimize those sorts of well I don't know you I'm not a doctor I'm an IEP you need to talk with your clinician.
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:19.480
Forgive me Mark I was going to go somewhere else with that too but I'll just say that's important to pause and hit and hit the brakes because it's I don't it's not every call is not like that.
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:29.400
I don't have when I'm working with a I had one earlier this week and she had worked with the clinician years ago, stopped working with it and just kind of seemed to be floating around.
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:35.159
They consider themselves to be a scholar of sorts and a smart individual no doubt and doing their own research.
00:50:35.320 --> 00:50:40.119
But what I found through that process was it ended up being like really wishy washy.
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:53.159
There was no decisiveness there was no high level of a high enough level of confidence to say no you do need to go ahead and execute this assessment or change this, improve the crawl space or change the HVAC system out or something like that.
00:50:53.320 --> 00:51:00.519
And there and what I gathered from that is the wishy washy was because they knew enough through their research to be uncertain.
00:51:00.679 --> 00:51:02.840
They knew enough to have more questions.
00:51:03.000 --> 00:51:06.760
It's like well then work with the clinician oh I guarantee you when you work with Dr.
00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:19.159
Mark Sue, he's not going to have all the answers for you, but he's going to be able to narrow down uh the, the, the, on a percentage odds basis, the most likely things to focus on.
00:51:19.240 --> 00:51:21.000
And that's going to give you peace of mind.
00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:28.440
I tell clients when I work with them the problem with your health and trying to answer it and solve and know the answer questions is not X plus Y equals Z.
00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:30.679
Two variables equal what where you're at.
00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:34.920
It's more like X plus 49 other variables equal what you're at.
00:51:35.079 --> 00:52:08.760
And I go, my goal is not to reduce your equation down from 50 variables to one, but if I can reduce it, I'd love to I don't think that's our nature and how we're built, but if I could reduce it from 50 to two or three, you're gonna feel like you won the lottery as a patient because you have clarity and you're more grounded and you feel like you have a pathway to go on because as you know Mark from personal experience, from professional experience and same here, the only thing worse than having an illness or having an issue is not knowing what the issue is or is not knowing what the exposure is.
00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:10.679
It's like you're just floating in the ether.
00:52:11.079 --> 00:52:15.880
So all those things are why it's so important to start with that basic education.
00:52:16.039 --> 00:52:29.639
That'll get you started to give you some interest and some some clarity get into the clinician figure out who you want to use probably somebody local nowadays with telehealth and other options that it's there seems like there's more available options now today than there was five, 10 years ago.
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:43.480
And then and then that will help you sequence the timing of not just when you do a whole house assessment, assuming it's that, but also to what degree you do it in because a whole house assessment is not carte blanche.
00:52:43.559 --> 00:52:44.440
It's not everything.
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:48.920
It's more like now I know as an IEP because the patient worked with Dr.
00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:55.800
Mark Sue that we're gonna focus on these two primary contaminants that are very helpful in the water damage building to help us clarify.
00:52:56.039 --> 00:52:58.920
And the patient feels like that's valuable to do that.
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:05.240
And they're willing to spend the time money and energy to do that on that versus going, well, I don't think I need to do that.
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:06.679
I don't I don't know anything about that.
00:53:06.760 --> 00:53:07.480
I don't want to do that.
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:14.440
And then they go through the motions, find out later that they should have dealt with it because they didn't work with a clinician and they're repeating that effort.
00:53:14.679 --> 00:53:16.840
That's that pain point that's frustrating.
00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:24.840
And there probably is some aspect of it mark being an empath myself that I I feel like I don't need to own this person's decision making.
00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:33.880
If they after all those explanations the patient still wants to say I'm still going this way and it's different from what I'm recommending, all good brother, you do you, boo.
00:53:34.039 --> 00:53:40.039
And then what we can do is work with that information and hopefully we can still come to the finish line and help you out.
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:46.280
But I've seen it enough and I've seen tens of thousands of dollars being wasted and uh I just think we can do better.
00:53:46.599 --> 00:53:57.000
Yeah so as I'm um listening to you I'm just reflecting back I mean I think that's sort of like a reflection and summary is that a lot of the stuff we talked about here are not new topics for us and from past podcast recordings.
00:53:57.159 --> 00:54:26.679
It's it's sort of like bringing it to the f to the forefront collectively with a lot of different pieces we've discussed before and talking about it in a just a real world real world transparent description of what we actually walk through and in this case it's a little bit more from our angle but with the intention of, as you you know said many times helping the patients, clients, you know, saving making decisions that in the end goal will save them time, energy and effort or money, time energy money.
00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:41.720
And so what you've pounded home for me is that and let's just say let's just keep it simpler and just say for patients who have chronic symptoms and that is a broad category and people could just say oh well yeah yeah I do have that but that's from blah and yeah I do have that but that's from whatever other diagnosis.
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:50.440
And they may not know that those diagnoses actually there's some other underlying root cause much less it's a common denominator root cause between two different what they think are totally different topics diagnoses symptoms.
00:54:50.599 --> 00:55:23.559
So that's a booking mark that bookmarking that aside, you're just pounding home that hey, yeah, especially for people who have chronic symptoms, autoimmunity problems, chronic this, chronic that, even if you they think they have an explanation for it and they don't attribute it to a sick environment, those people pretty much hands down, you got you and colleagues that we know in the IP world would all bet, have that vaguest bet that they're those people easily in the big picture, they're gonna have the best bang for their buck to have a clinician and not just go guessing in in on their own and working straight with the IP.
00:55:23.720 --> 00:55:30.199
Or if they do connect connect with an IP first, fine, but they they still would be best served um connecting with a clinician to work simultaneously together.
00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:30.920
Well said.
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:49.639
And then those who are maybe not symptom so symptomatic or not symptomatic at all for easy argument, hey we could I think you and I both would agree that a money, effort, energy, effort aside et cetera, money energy time aside, if they're motivated and they're going ho, yeah, we would we would we would advocate for addressing those findings as well.
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:52.679
They're just rare err cases for us.
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:54.760
But on an absolute level we could agree to that too.
00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:01.000
Well I think it's also a sound yes and I think it's a sound check to the audience, to the community of like, hey listen, we're we're not lost.
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:11.480
We certainly our bias is towards working with people with chronic complex issues and and and that is to say not everybody has to have a complex, complicated, huge issue.
00:56:11.720 --> 00:56:18.599
You might just have a a small, isolated area that maybe even in some cases can just be dealt we we homeowner maintenance.
00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:25.079
You know mold growing from condensation on a window in Montana in the wintertime, we're not asking you to get the mold remediation company out there for that.
00:56:25.320 --> 00:56:29.960
That's simply let's just wipe it down, clean it off and try to work on ways to minimize it on the future.
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:35.720
Nor are we suggesting that if you have a little bit of condensation related mold on a window that you're starting to start being symptomatic.
00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:42.679
I don't recommend snorting or licking it but I'm saying you know we're we we we're not trying to make this a doom and gloom.
00:56:42.920 --> 00:56:48.679
The bias that you hear from me, which I don't have a problem with is towards that chronic illness community.
00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:51.400
But individual that's healthy, no problem.
00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.159
Like you can just deal with it isolated.
00:56:53.240 --> 00:56:57.159
You don't have to like say automatically I'm gonna have to do a small particle clean to my whole house.
00:56:57.240 --> 00:56:59.320
It could just be you address that local area.
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:05.720
I think the takeaway there is just be mindful, be open minded to the points that we talk today today.
00:57:05.960 --> 00:57:15.240
Be proactive don't be reactive don't worry if you're uh if you're a worry wart, you know, don't don't go down a rabbit hole just ask yourself some common sense questions.
00:57:15.400 --> 00:57:51.320
And if if you're not sure how to ground yourself to to utilize your common sense because it's molds can be complicated because there's all sorts of things go to great free resources like IEAsi.org go to the resources page there are tons, I say tons, there are multiple free resources that explain the fundamentals of testing, the fundamentals of mold remediation and the concepts and the best practices these documents have been created and approved through an IEP committee so multiple people had their hands on it and able to produce it and give you some consensus so that you can be grounded.
00:57:51.480 --> 00:58:02.119
Mold's not plutonium and we don't need you to run from a mold spore because as you've been listening to this podcast, you breathed in plenty of mold spores and mold fragments, just normal background stuff from the outside.
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:06.119
But we just want you to be mindful and yes back to the chronic illness community.
00:58:06.360 --> 00:58:10.519
Without a doubt, I love that you're you're you're uh utilizing the term Vegas odds.
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:17.000
Yes, the Vegas odds would have you that if you want to save the most time, money and energy, start by doing basic free research.
00:58:17.159 --> 00:58:21.240
Don't necessarily rely on every Facebook or Instagram celebrity.
00:58:21.400 --> 00:58:25.639
Go to trusted nonprofit places or places that you know have integrity.
00:58:25.880 --> 00:58:46.039
Use that as a starting point soundcheck that with yourself and then find a clinician if you're not working with them because in the thousands of jobs that I've done with clients, whenever that is done the mic way, and by the way it's not just the mic way, there's plenty of colleagues that agree with this is that it we end up getting to the finish line quicker and it's sometimes it's cheaper.
00:58:46.360 --> 00:58:47.559
It depends on what we find.
00:58:47.720 --> 00:58:53.079
But at the end of the day, the sanity, the peace of mind that they get Mark is is the biggest thing.
00:58:53.240 --> 00:59:02.119
I I they they the biggest compliment we get as environmental analytics, whether it's myself or my sidekick Nell Renshaw is thank you for the clarity.
00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:03.960
Thank you for the context.
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:17.800
Thank you for being a healthy fulcrum that honors my health but doesn't make me feel like you're trying to trip my limbic system up and get me overtly worried because I'm using harsh terms or you're using terms like you have to do this or this will cause X.
00:59:18.039 --> 00:59:20.840
And that that means a lot because that's feedback that we need to hear.
00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:21.559
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:21.639 --> 00:59:36.920
I I I was thinking the same thing just uh one or two points prior before you said it that I I kind of purposely drew the delineation between people who are symptomatic like not symptomatic at all, just easy argument and those who are more chronically and complexly sick because the in-between is is hard.
00:59:37.000 --> 00:59:40.599
But we've covered that in so many different ways in different podcasts, right?
00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:42.920
Like there there there it is a gray zone.
00:59:43.000 --> 00:59:57.880
And we don't want we're not trying to just say hey it all depends, it all depends, we don't have any answers but there are some individualistic decision making factors to be had there but exact I had the exact same reflection that you did, which is look on the one hand we don't need to like freak out and be gaslit all the time.
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:00.519
At the same time we want to just have some awareness and mindfulness.
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:17.240
If we only treat like the you know what's what's obvious and it's a targeted approach and we didn't do the whole checklist just snow down the road like if hey if symptoms develop or if we're starting to observe things in our environment we need to reconsider that it's not necessarily like it's one and done, it's never going to be a problem again.
01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:23.240
So it it's not necessarily black and white but if you're more symptomatic then it becomes more black and white.
01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:24.280
Fair?
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:24.840
Yes.
01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:25.800
Yes very fair.
01:00:26.039 --> 01:00:36.920
And and that's the thing like you and a lot of the IPs in our colleague community, you know, they're working with we are working with people who are more chronically sick and so for those people the strong suggestion is it's a it's a it's a team effort.
01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:44.440
We've got to do this all together whether it's a clinician or the IP like the clinicians would say the same thing that um it's really helpful to like we're always referring people to the IPs too, right?
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:54.360
And so it's all it's all together and you're just uh bringing up I think yeah a pain point that you're experiencing that colleagues are experiencing and um just an advocacy of a kind of a singular to focal take-home point.
01:00:54.519 --> 01:01:04.199
If you have chronic health symptoms, even if you think you know what they're about but they don't go away and you've got concerns about your environment, like it's worth having a clinician involved in at somewhere along the way earlier rather than later.
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:13.159
Save your sanity save your marriage or at least have one of those I told you husband let's call it like it is the husbands are the ones that mainly are the issue.
01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:23.559
And and even that might be worth the price of uh the price of tea uh to to to get that sort of validation because you're not crazy and there might be something meaningful going on there.
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:29.559
But at the same token if you're sitting back listening to this on a Saturday night because who else would move what else would you be doing?
01:01:29.639 --> 01:01:40.360
And you have a healthy you're a healthy individual you go run triathlons and everything is all good but you have a small water leak, I'm not saying that your next step's call a clinician it, you know, we can deal with things isolated.
01:01:40.519 --> 01:02:12.840
And and by the way, there are plenty of resources and and mark can link stuff up again the the places that we said to get that education to get that context when do I want to use an IEP how do I want to use IEP if I do D we're working on Mark I don't know if you know this right now but the uh IEP committee uh is working on a guided DIY for samples addicted to those in the water yeah right and so there's a lot of stuff coming out to help people yeah yeah no you guys always do you guys you guys are just putting us to shame you're moging us as the young people like to say yeah hey we got an extra seat if you want to join us.
01:02:15.800 --> 01:02:17.159
The gesture in the group in the crowd.
01:02:17.400 --> 01:03:02.920
Yeah it's the unspoken it's the glances it's that yeah yeah we're talking about you there mark all right cool awesome agenda uh mission accomplished here yeah absolutely all right yeah well we'll we'll find out but I I think we did good okay yeah so again to reach reach Mike most most directly and pointly he's got uh a presence in several different um communities businesses but um environmentalanalytics.net is the best way to reach him directly anything else like any other place you want to point people to for you yeah that's the big one um we're um I'm also for those people that are interested in uh other things maybe related to like proactive building things speaking of the home and we've been talking about remediation and cleaning in the process of assessments and what but if you're looking at this idea of how do I build a proper home I I don't like using the word safe.
01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:17.960
I think the word safe has been burnt out but but a healthy or truly healthy home check out healthy building alliance so healthybuildingalliance.org and check that out you'll you my information may or may not be there but it's a great resource for you.
01:03:18.039 --> 01:03:32.360
But if you want to if you want education and you're just looking for more podcast information on topics I hang out with Mark like Mark said in the beginning here but also check out IEP radio the letters IEP radio.com on that one.
01:03:32.519 --> 01:04:00.840
Yeah it's good and uh as always yeah if you're if you are a friend loved one or someone you know can use some help with a functional practice practitioner first time second time consult uh second opinion consult or just needing a change um or in between practitioners rootseekhealth.com is where you can find us and uh yeah uh we religion honor to just be part of anybody's journey whether on this educational level or actually in patient care or in client care through through Mike and his teams or through RootSeek Health.
01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:03.639
So that we'll uh we'll call today and we'll we'll do it again.
01:04:03.800 --> 01:04:04.760
See you on the next one, brother.
01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:06.440
All right yeah good stuff.