LARP!

WEBVTT
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Let's talk about RP.
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This podcast contains material intended for a mature audience.
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For procedure, perfect art.
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Welcome to Folk How podcast about Leather Ink and PDSM.
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My name is Edge.
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My pronouns are EM.
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And I'm your host.
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And this has got to be one of the most unique episodes of Folk How in the entire four seasons.
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We're going to be talking about live action role-playing, LARPing, in the context of a leather bar at the height of the HIV pandemic.
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You know, I get emails every now and then.
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People telling me, oh, thanks for the podcast, thanks for the podcast.
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One day I get this email.
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Thanks for the podcast.
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It helped us create this LARP about leather bars in the 80s.
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And I'm like, what?
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What?
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I followed up with John and Lost, and they agreed to come on the show and tell me about what they were doing.
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So this is going to be a really interesting episode because I know a lot of you who listen are gamers of various sorts.
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And therefore not far away from this world of LARPing.
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And now we're going to dive right in at the intersection of LARPing, leather and kink.
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I love that.
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We also have some great ask edge questions, so I'm also excited for that.
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And I'm thrilled for this episode.
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I think it's one of my most unique episodes ever, and I'm hoping you enjoy it as much as I do.
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So let's get started.
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And oh my god, I am so excited to have John and Moss joining us here on Full Cal.
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John and Moss, welcome to Full Cal.
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Thank you, and it's just wonderful to be here.
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Yeah, thanks for having us.
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Yeah, so John, could you introduce yourself, name, pronouns, and who you are?
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I'm John Cole.
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I use he, him, his pronouns.
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I'm uh a sex educator and LARP designer.
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Uh yeah, I'm a cis man.
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And a bye.
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And Moss, can you do the same?
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Yes, I am Moss Mognoveho Bosch.
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I use they, them, theirs pronouns.
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Uh, yeah, I am a tabletop and LARP designer.
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I've worked in various facets of education for about a decade, including but not limited to sex and relationship health education.
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Uh and yeah, I'm a I'm a non-binary trans mask person who loves nerding out about games and pink and the intersection thereof, especially between pink and LARP, because there's a lot happening there.
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I love that.
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And I will say, you know, when I look, the only place I get really good metrics, quote unquote metrics on my audience is Instagram.
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And it's always my key demographic is 25 to 34.
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And I know, and actually, everyone in my orbit is a gamer of some form.
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So I'm thrilled to have you here because I think my audience is really going to identify with you.
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I'm a creo gamer.
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You you got us.
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I guess.
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Uh, but I do have other demographics who may not know what LARPing is.
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So could one of you, both of you, tell us what exactly LARP is?
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Yeah.
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Um, LARP is a short way of saying live action role-playing.
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And so the content I think most people have seen in like a movie or at the park or people running around with padded swords in the woods.
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Um, so that's blank pretend.
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And I would say, like film, there's a whole spectrum of what LARP is from like the artsy end of the community that makes interactive experiences about weird or real-world topics.
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And then there's also like the great old-fashioned fun fantasy adventure, swords in the woods.
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Uh, Moss and I are from the sad crying about feelings, like having big thoughts about politics, world of LARPing.
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Uh yeah.
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Yeah, we don't mind a little fantasy adventure, but we usually end up getting some politicking in there at some point.
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Uh yeah, I would also say I agree with everything John said.
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I, in my daily life, especially in the talking with coworkers about your hobbies kind of experience, have had to figure out how to shorthand LARP for people who don't know it.
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I often really quick shorthand what I'm doing, especially as immersive storytelling games.
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Um because I think there's a whole bunch of different ways you can describe it, but that covers a lot of the kinds of things that I'm doing.
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It is essentially just lightly formatted playing pretend.
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And I think it's something that people keep doing in a bunch of different ways without knowing that they're doing it, and in some cases actively reinvent in different communities and spaces because the desire to play pretend is potent.
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It's also a great educational tool.
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John and I have both done work around the concept of edge of art, you know, short for like educational art, talking about ways you can use that kind of immersive role-playing to teach a concept or engage with a piece of history or reflect on something intentionally, you know, with like a an intentional formatted setup and debrief to help contextualize it.
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Um, and so there's a lot of tasty, tasty potential.
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And I especially, in a lot of my different education work I've done, I've done a lot of things that weren't described as LARPing, but definitely were, because lots of interactive training tools and scenario practice are very literally LARP.
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They're going, hey, here's your little character sheet, and you're supposed to act this out immersively so that everyone else gets to practice, for example, how to do wilderness first aid on someone who is panicking in the woods.
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Um who is LARP?
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Awesome.
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I love that.
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I love how expansive that definition is.
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I think a lot of people will find an entry point.
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So, and you talked about being sort of on the emotional, sad side of LARPing, and we're really here to talk about the LARP you made, um, cruising for sex in a burning building.
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So, and I'll start like calling on you because for people who are at home, you may have figured out we're there are three of us here, and who's going to answer?
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That gets confusing.
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John, can you give us the elevator pitch for what cruising for sex in a burning building is?
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Uh in cruising for sex in a burning building, you can connect, cruise, and mourn as uh gay 80s leathermen in the just reopened leather bar uh at the peak moment of the of the HIV AIDS crisis, where your characters have to decide where they're gonna go at the end of the night.
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Are they going hard with other men in the basement dungeon or are they going home in light of the risks of HIV transmission?
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Powerful.
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And so, Moss, this all started because I got an email out of the blue, like, oh, thanks for full cow.
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Great podcast.
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We made a LARP, and then that blew my mind.
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So can can you tell us how the the sort of trajectory from how did full cow lead to this, or what other sources were you pulling from to assemble this LARP?
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Oh, yeah, we we pulled from a lot of sources.
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So this LARP happened for a lot of reasons, one of which is just that John and I were already connected in the LARP scene.
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We're both in particular, like people with a sex education background and people who focus on COVID consciousness in like our hobbies and gameplay spaces.
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And so we had become internet friends and then in-person friends and been in a lot of the same kinds of overlapping game spaces, both for online edge-alp events run in connection with Planned Parenthood at one point, and also the in-person, COVID-conscious uh Twin Cities LARP scenario festival make a scene, which happens every summer in Minneapolis.
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Um, but yeah, we were both thinking about different dimensions of EdulARP uh perspectives on kinds of games we might want to do.
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And I in particular, um, I was raised by 1980s uh like comic nerds.
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My parents collected a whole bunch of weird indie comics in the 80s, which included a lot of comics that we're actively commenting on and engaging with the HIV AIDS crisis.
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Uh, including there's there's this amazing, for me, one of the anchor points that led to the large arc that looped in full cow was this 80s fundraiser charity comic anthology called Strip AIDS USA, that had a multi-editor panel, it brought together comic artists, everyone from like the guy who makes Doonesbury to like Kate Worley and Reed Waller, who wrote what's considered one of the now, in retrospect, original furry comics before furry comics were a term, a term.
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Um, and they were all making comics that were commenting on this particular like political, cultural, social, sexual moment.
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Um, and so I, as a young person who then became like a peer, like youth sex educator in my teens, that historical context was so huge, getting the chance to see art made by people in the middle of this really particular moment.
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Um and so when John and I hit a point where we were, we realized, hey, we have kind of a game premise we want to chew on here.
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We want to play around with what it would look like to set a game in this really specific moment in history.
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And how would we want people to embody that?
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And how would we want to engage with that thoughtfully and intentionally, knowing that we weren't there, we didn't live that specifically, and our LARP players either weren't there or aren't there now.
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Um, so what are the tools we want to pull from?
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And so we were using a range of current and historical sources.
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So I went down a rabbit hole reading multiple like anthologies of people's writings about bar culture historically, and John went on some podcast scouting and found your podcast.
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And so we were pulling together this lovely chaotic resource list.
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Uh, we were kind of pulling this from everywhere we could, and you especially, I believe, helped John contextualize the Leatherman's handbook as a particular historical resource connected to that moment.
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Awesome.
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John, did you want to add anything to that?
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Yeah, um, I appreciated the episodes where you, I forget the person's name, but like the person who was researching leather current and historically, and like had multiple layers of information about definitions.
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And Moss and I are, neither of us are like cis gay men.
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So like coming from a podcast that comes from more from that perspective was important for us to talk about uh the leather and kink aspects of this game.
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Yeah, if people are curious, that's Dr.
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Ty, who is a sexologist with a PhD and who was doing research on uh and made the first sort of academic definition of old card, and I think that's exactly who you're talking about.
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Uh, crazy for sex at a burning building.
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People show up, uh, they step into character, and then you've developed a way for them to have touch, but obviously not have sex, right?
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So can you talk about this ours, ours of mundi, I think it's called, right?
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Um, John, can you tell us about it and how you developed it and what it does and how it works?
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Yes, I guess I should first say that assuming that uh there wouldn't be any sex is not necessarily an assumption.
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There are LARPs where people do do real sex or have real kink.
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Uh this, however, is not one of them.
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Um we wanted this LARP to uh involve players in exploring or rediscovering sensation now that their character's relationship to sex has been transformed due to the due to the haze crisis.
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And because we want to have people have multiple, I'm using your quotes, sexual encounters, extra kinky encounters over the course of play over just four or five hours, we decided that pretend was best because it's so much faster and people don't need a lot of real recovery time from real kinky encounters, real sexual encounters.
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And so we have a delicious constellation of techniques that are sensory, involve touch, and feel a little uh physically and emotionally like sex, while not involving real-world genital contact.
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And those are based on a LARP technique called Arzabandi, created by, oh gosh, like Elliot Weislander and other lovely people from the Nordic countries whose names elude me.
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Um, a technique originally developed for a LARP where everyone is part of an alien society where there are no human beings and there are four genders, and every family is composed of four genders, and your genitals are your arms.
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So you sensually, mutually touch each other on the arms, fingertip to collarbone, uh, to have space alien sex.
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And that was created for a very specific need about a game about aliens living their little polyamorous lives.
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And um, it has become popular in the ARP community to uh stand in for regular sex between regular humans.
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That may be way, way more context than you and your listeners need.
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No, that's correct.
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I don't think even every LARP knows that that's part of the origin of Arzumanti.
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Plenty of people learn it without the space alien context is the origin.
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Yeah.
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And and so and and so you've you you translated specific kinds of touch to different kinks, or can you tell us about how, like, how does kink get translated into alien sex techniques?
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Let's start there.
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Moss.
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Yeah, do you want to stick this one, Moss?
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Happily, yeah.
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So essentially, it's interesting too, because also in making the decisions around these mechanics, there was a lot of brainstorming back and forth.
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I would say John was the overall like mechanics master and final decision maker, but we were both riffing and trying to pull concepts and figure out essentially, do we need to reinvent the wheel here?
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We probably don't.
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Like we have made tools for so many things.
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There's almost certainly going to be stuff we can pull from.
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It was then just a question of what flows best, what seems to work in a play test, and also what relates thematically to the context and era that we're playing with.
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And so I would also say definitely like the kink techniques that we ended up picking are extremely non-exhaustive and are based, I think, at least a little bit in part on what we felt we could develop useful LARP tools for enacting, where it's learnable and playable within that time frame.
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So key uh like kink dynamics we ended up landing on included impact, breath play, boot blacking, power exchange, uh, and bondage, because those were all things where we could take elements connected to the flavor of Arzumandi and find pretty direct ways to translate them using minim minimal but meaningful touch.
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So, for example, in boot blacking, you don't literally have a whole kit.
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You don't, you're not literally immersively cleaning leather, but you might be ritualistically buffing a piece of scrap leather with a piece of soft cloth, or even just ritualistically buffing or touching a part of someone's body or some other part of their clothing.
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I'd had my I had my shoes boot blacked, I was wearing sneakers.
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Um it was not literal boot blacking, but the the symbol focused engagement with a particular item, treating it as a site of care and a site of intimate focus, that could still translate over by the same by the same tool.
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Bondage, we're not having people do literal bondage, both because it would be very time consuming.
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And also, frankly, I've I haven't uh I don't know if this has come up specifically on your show, but I wouldn't be surprised if it has.
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But a lot of bondage can be much more edge play than people realize.
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Uh there are a lot of like nerve damage and suffocation risks and fall risks, depending on what you're doing.
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Um, but people can, you know, slowly and meaningfully like draw a bandana or a scarf around someone's hand, twine it between their fingers, or even just hold someone's hands together and then tell them, like, bound, like it's now your job to hold yourself here as though you have been tied up.
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Obviously, within the safety limits of you can stretch, move, drop your hands if it's no longer sustainable for you to hold them there.
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But yeah, everything we did was kind of anchored on finding ways that we can enact this where it works with minimal meaningful touch pulling off of Arzumondi.
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Um But yeah, it was a lot of brainstorming, and I can definitely imagine there being versions of the game where if we built it with a different mechanical basis, it might end up with a different kink array as the focus, too.
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But having Arzumandi as sort of a guiding structure helped us figure out what kinks worked well within that format.
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Yeah.
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John, would you add anything to that?
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No, thank you, Moss.
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You've covered it well.
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I guess I might say that we wrote this LARP um to premiere at the Smoke Festival in London.
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So this is a LARP by LARP people for LARP people.
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So also people in the LARP community, some know Arzumandi and can leap right in, though this LARP has had meaningful interest from people in the overlapping LARP and Kink communities or just in the Kink community because of its subject matter.
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But yeah, so there is also a lowered cognitive load factor that is a little bit of a boost from building something based on Arsamondi.
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Right.
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So this uh emerges out of your background as educators and sex educators.
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What was what's the outcome you were hoping for from this experience for participants?
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And what sort of outcomes did you see?
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And I'll start with John and then we'll go to Moss.
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I mean, the I would say I don't want to project this to every LARP organizer, but I certainly wanted people to connect with this uh ace, the I don't know the right word for it, this aspect of queer history that even if someone is young and they haven't directly touched is a thing that resonates throughout time to queer people.
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I want people to be to find for the first time we're reminded about their feelings of this unfolding tragedy of the AIDS crisis causing us to lose so many queer elders and leather elders.
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Um I wanted people to cry about the real human tragedy of an it pre an entirely preventable disease epidemic that that we in the world fumbled that resulted in great death and loss of knowledge.
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I wanted people to feel a little sad and a little sexy.
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How about you, Moss?
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I think that's an incredibly good summary.
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I would say that, yeah, this game is very actively like it is a dance with the dead written with love.
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Um like we are writing it for people who are not here, who we do not get a chance to know.
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And it is in part motivated by grief that we will never know them, but also in wanting to honor like everything that has been left behind.
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There are people who are who survived, there are people who wrote about the people they loved and lost.
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Uh, there are people documenting this and working really hard to do it, even when it is made actively hard by historical and cultural obfuscation and the things that were lost and destroyed.
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And I think also, again, we're also writing it in the context of like COVID-conscious game designers writing it during an ongoing current pandemic that is not precisely the same as that historical moment, but we are certainly not the first people to point out its resonances.
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And so I think it is also very actively and intentionally a game about how to find like intimacy, community, and joy while you are also engaging with risk uh of like death and illness and like structural marginalization and violence, because all of those are things that are in no way limited to one particular moment in a club in the 1980s.
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Those are things that ripple across time and space, and we are living in different aspects of them right now.
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And I mean, uh, what what outcomes did you observe from participants?
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Do you feel like were people crying?
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I mean, do you did you get feedback on what people were taking away from this experience?
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Did it match what your goals were?
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And we'll start with gloss and then we'll go to John.
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Yeah, I feel like it is a real range of experience.
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And I think something that I think we were definitely hoping for that I feel like I have seen in the playthrough I got to be a part of is people moving back and forth between like the partying and the grief and the partying and the grief getting to exist together.
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You know, people were hooking up on the dance floor and then stepping aside to make like little memorial altars for lost loved ones.
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:39.519
And by the end of the night, we were picking up the memorial altars and bringing them onto the dance floor to like party with lost loves and comrades again in the ways that we could.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:45.039
And so I think that intentional engagement with just the messy dimensionality of things, I love that.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:20:02.799
I feel like it's also been just great to get to see people engage with the tools that we created and have experiences that do involve kink and intimacy, even if they're not the literal kinks that are being represented by the more abstract forms, and that people are taking time to be bold and make interesting, messy connections with other people.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:04.640
I think that was definitely one of my hopes.
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:15.279
We're inviting people to do some very interesting and vulnerable things, and I've seen people extremely go for it, uh, which warms my heart in terms of uh kinksters and LARPers and the overlap between.
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:20.720
John has been present for a lot more of the playthroughs than I have, and I think you've even got pulled some quotes for folks who played.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:22.319
Is there stuff that you would highlight from that, John?
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.680
Yeah, I've run it a couple times in the US and in Europe.
00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.000
Uh let's let's see, what comes to mind?
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:35.359
I guess for your purposes, Edge, during runtime of a LARP, everyone's in character, so no one's really stopping to tell me how they're doing.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.200
I just kind of have to hope they're doing okay.
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:48.160
So the intel I get comes from the debrief where people said, hey, I was, you know, when I was quiet in the corner, I was really in my character's head, stressing about my dead lover or whether or not to go into the dungeon tonight.
00:20:48.400 --> 00:21:09.519
Um but I without quoting any one specific person, yeah, people did feel connected to that history that both is and isn't theirs, or really valued the chance to be a sexy leather man uh one for one night only, uh, even if that's a little fraught in real life at times, especially for queer trans people um who are not fitting in necessarily as well.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.240
Do I have a specific story to share, though?
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:28.640
Um, I guess just anecdotally, uh also people I reached out later to say, hey, based on the experience of this LARP, I I went to this much for the first time, or I Googled some stuff or switched up my profile for the first time.
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:41.039
So I'm also this wasn't the goal, but I'm very glad that people are using it as a way to explore who they are or could be personally and letting the discoveries through their character maybe affect what they want to do in their life outside the LARP.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:42.559
That's beautiful.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:52.319
And I mean I I suspect I may break into tears at some point during this episode because you know, I came out in the early nineties.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:58.799
So I was like I I came out in a time when sex was death.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.160
But I did, I didn't lose all my friends.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:06.160
But because I was into older men, I was connecting with men who lost all their friends.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:08.960
And my first husband, when I met him, he was in his 40s.
00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:11.039
He didn't have any friends because they all died, right?
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:17.039
So um, and I I saw the the AIDS Memorial quilt on the Washington Mall.
00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:28.880
Like, and so what I loved about what you're doing is like a lot of these, particularly something like the AIDS quilt, which isn't displayed, can't really be displayed as totality anymore, isn't really as much displayed around the country.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:39.039
These visual markers of history are not are not there for this younger generation, for you to create a kind of accessible in a language they're used to, role-playing games, right?
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.720
This is what they do, for them to enter into that history and experience that.
00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:49.680
I am so grateful that you're doing that because I went through it and and I and that shapes how I move through the world as a queer man.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.039
And I would love for them to have a sense of what that's like.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:55.440
So thank you for bringing that history forward.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.799
You're very welcome.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:00.480
And we ourselves are inspired by other great works in the same genre.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:07.680
The uh legendary game Just a Little Love In um is like a really big three-day-long version of our LARP.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:15.279
Um, it's widely regarded as one of the best LARP in the world by Hannah Grasmo and uh TK Edland, uh two Norwegians making a LARP about the Americans.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.559
Um it's been run many times in Europe and come to the US once.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:27.119
Um, it's such an inspiration because it's a party where people connect with this experience and connect with the loss associated with the AIDS crisis.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.519
Yeah, our game would absolutely not exist without just a little oven.
00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:36.720
Um and I want to pick up uh part of what I was talking about.
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:39.359
There's a there's an underlying theme here of transmission, right?
00:23:39.519 --> 00:23:45.200
So within the LARP, players have to like teach each other these R Zamondi kink moves.
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:50.880
So there's a transmission of knowledge there in the context of this disease transmission going on all around them.
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:55.440
And then y'all are also creating this transition, transmission of historical knowledge.
00:23:55.599 --> 00:24:02.640
So, can you speak to this theme of transmission, how much y'all were playing on it and being conscious of it or how much it emerged?
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.240
How did transmission work into your design of full art?
00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:08.559
Yeah, I can jump in on that.
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:15.200
Um, yes, Edge raises an important part of the design, which is each player learns one of these kink techniques.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:18.160
You just learn bondage or you just learn boot blacking at the start of play.
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:27.839
And if you want to learn or explore the other kink techniques, you have to find somebody and convince them to teach you, maybe have a scene with you where they show you how to uh you know do breath play or whatever.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:32.559
Um, that's because we wanted people to explore and discover and learn from one another.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:40.960
Um, but we did decide, Moss and I together decided to shy away from any sort of mechanical representation of HIV transmission.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:47.039
We didn't want people handing each other HIV tokens or to minimize uh something real and sensitive.
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:58.400
So the most people engage with it is in the epoch in the private epilogue when the game is done, people can privately decide what happens to their character, which may or may not include, you know, serious conversion.
00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:02.319
Um that's a wonderful theme, this idea of transmission.
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.319
Did uh I think that's what I have to say about it.
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:05.440
Would you want to expand on this?
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:06.720
Yeah, uh absolutely.
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:38.319
I think I think it was definitely a theme in acting on multiple layers because, again, yeah, transmission of knowledge is so much at the heart of what our vision was for this, and also kind of like complicated co-creation of knowledge, I think, is part of that too, both in that we are not in this particular historical moment, we are creating, we are creating this kind of complicated historical fiction pastiche of a moment and inviting people to build it with us, because part of the the terror and wonder of LARP is that however you design it, you are then not totally in control of it.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:42.000
It is going to get co-created with your players every time that it runs.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:59.119
Um, and I think especially the theme of transmission of knowledge, it played out in an engaging way uh in terms of the technique teaching, because it was a way of encouraging people to bond and connect and interact in character, while also smoothing the flow of game setup.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:08.000
There's a lot of workshop because we're trying to set people up with this context about the world they're going to enter and also the safety tools to enter it in a thoughtful and intentional way.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:13.440
Um yeah, I would also say I hope I hope the transmission goes beyond the games.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:16.799
It is in part, we're in places like this talking about it on a podcast.
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:34.000
I I definitely hope that it's a game that people talk about and that the thoughts they take from it get to ripple out into how they're engaging with the world and how they're engaging with other people, and maybe even how they're engaging with, say, for sex and kink, um, by creating kind of an intentional focal point uh for chewing on that with other people.
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:41.599
And I'm also curious, you've done it in you've done this game, you've run it in a couple of different kinds of venues, right?
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.599
So black box theater here, hotel conference room there, Phetoshop basement.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:57.440
Have you found that the venue, the physical space impacts the way the game emerges and how the people and John's taking you said very strongly.
00:26:57.519 --> 00:26:58.640
So I think he has a strong opinion.
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:00.319
We'll start with John and then go to Moss.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:07.039
Yeah, we designed this for working in random rooms, uh, as the world of uh like LARP conventions works.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:18.079
Uh, but yeah, for the the hometown run here in Minneapolis, we rented the basement of uh beautiful Twin Cities Leather, which has a content creation uh studio, which happens to include a St.
00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:26.240
Andrew's Cross, a spanking bench, a massage table, buckets and buckets of gear for people to use, um, and uh beautiful LED lighting.
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:29.359
So that lent um a verisimilitude.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:35.759
Um, and indeed, they even had this was uh such a wonderful discovery that we found out day of while setting up.
00:27:35.920 --> 00:27:45.920
Um, the Twin Cities Knights of Leather, uh, a gay men's uh leather organization that disbanded in like the late 70s, I think, or in the 90s to start in the 70s.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:28:00.720
Um, the Twin Cities Leather bought a real glory hole that they created and used all throughout that time, and we got to prop it in a corner and have people stick their arms through the larger glory hole slot and have the cruising play in our game.
00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:08.720
So it had both real historical elements and also just uh more gear uh to goof around with.
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:18.000
Uh, we're of the opinion, or I won't speak from us, I'm of the opinion that you can have role play anywhere you choose to play pretend, no costumes required.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:27.599
Uh, but it's fun to have uh cool costumes for everyone to put on their leather and levi stuff for the purposes of playing a leather and levi bar.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:33.359
But uh I've run this in places just where we dim the lights a bit, and it it still works.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:35.359
Um, shout out to the St.
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:46.160
Paul, Minnesota Library System to let us rent, uh I guess use for free their basement uh for some early playtests, and it still had a leather bar energy where we're able to play.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:49.119
Um yeah, that's what comes to mind.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:57.680
Yeah, it is very fun to be able to say from experience that everywhere from library basement to literal dungeon can work as a play space.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:59.119
Because yeah, I agree with John.
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:04.319
I feel like this is a thing that comes up in LARP in many formats too, where again, it is playing pretend.
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:18.319
And so you can, if if you're able to enter it together with the suspension of disbelief, you can make almost any space work as long as it just meets the literal physical logistical requirements of we can fit the people in here and they have enough space to talk and hear each other.
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:47.839
I have I played a LARP that was set in an illicit uh nightclub for androids, and it was in a narrow back hallway in one of like the main building spaces of a community college, I believe, uh, with absolutely no special props or equipment, and the only in-character costuming elements were colorful ribbons that indicated our detachable body parts, so that we could tie and untie ribbons from around each other's limbs to indicate uh illicit body part swapping at our funky underground Android club.
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:54.799
So the range of possibility is broad, but also I think many LARPers' costuming brings us a lot of joy.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:09.119
Uh, it's very fun to get to add props and flavor and elements, and it was very cool to see at the at the session that I was in in uh the Twin Cities that people had a real range of costuming, but everyone was doing something intentional with their vibe.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:19.200
Not everyone was literally in leather, but everyone had dressed in something that was going to make them feel centered and engaged with how they were going to play the game that day.
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:20.720
And there's a lot of delight in that.
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:31.759
But it's balanced with the complicated delight of it's also amazing to be able to just wander into an empty room in your street clothes and create something totally different than the energy you entered with.
00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:34.000
So Moss, can you tell the story?
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:35.119
Oh, sorry.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:42.480
Can you tell the story of uh someone who recast their personal vest as a character's vest and the play they made out of that?
00:30:42.880 --> 00:30:44.160
Oh my god, that was amazing.
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:52.000
Yeah, there was a as we've kind of noted, one of the elements in our game is that this is a club that was closed and then reopened.
00:30:52.240 --> 00:31:01.680
One of the two owners of the club died in of AIDS, and their partner is reopening it with the complicated tragedy of that loss.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:08.799
And there are a lot of other people in the community that have been lost too, and you can make little memorial altars for them and reflect about them with other people.
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:17.680
Part of game setup involves clustering up with a random group of other players and deciding together what are key memories you had of this person.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:27.440
Um, and those memories are then yours to continue holding on to because you physically black out everywhere that it was written down on your reference sheet uh to represent the loss of that death.
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:31.119
Uh, they are held together by your stories and your memorialization.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:44.480
And one of the players in our Twin Cities game uh was wearing a leather vest and decided this is a piece of leather that they got that was gifted to them from one of these people who had been lost.
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:59.200
And so this character who was already in the play space as an intimate collective memory of, I think, at least four players initially, uh, that influence of Roy, this lost, this lost friend, rippled out through the ways people were doing kink.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:06.240
People were touching something that was part of the intimate memory of Roy and Roy's body and Roy's presence in the space.
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.640
And that was an amazing play decision.
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:10.400
It rippled through a lot of people.
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:29.200
And I was playing like an older character too, who was internally grappling with the possibility of early death and ended up having a lot of discussions about like leather legacy and sort of joking that, you know, I know I'm gonna I need to stay alive long enough to gift all my leather on to like all these young, beautiful men.
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:32.319
Like that's that's an important part of this process.
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:35.759
So you're not you're not done with me yet because I haven't gifted everything away.
00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:42.880
Um, but yeah, it created this really like complicated, hot and intimate and sad dimension to the world we were building together.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.519
And it was a really beautiful, beautiful character decision.
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:53.279
I'll just add, I mean, uh, first of all, that brought tears to my eyes because I I have gifted leather from people who are no longer with me.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:55.440
And so that's not just that, that's not a game.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:05.200
I mean, you were able to really bring in a core element of how leather culture transmits itself in a very beautiful, sacred way.
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:06.640
And so I'm glad you were able to do that.
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:12.559
And then the other thing, you know, the your ability to turn any space into a dungeon, that is also very leather.
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.640
Like, not everyone has a dungeon.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.119
Dungeons take up a lot of space in tiny houses, right?
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:21.680
So sometimes your bedroom is the dungeon, sometimes you're camping in the woods, and that's the dungeon.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:28.960
And so the kind of space building you're doing in the LARP is very leather.
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:31.200
It is very accurately leather.
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:33.359
And I don't know if you know that, but you should know that.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.559
Did you know that?
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:36.160
Thank you, Edge.
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:46.720
Um, yeah, the there's uh there's a a bit of a uh an old joke that's like the Renfair community, the kink community, the whole playing for fun community, they're kind of a big overlap.
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:52.160
So, yeah, of course, we know that there are many uh uh LARPers who have kinky interests who are attracted to this LARP.
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:55.359
And of course, uh yeah, that's I guess what I'll say about that.
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:57.440
Uh thank you for this validation.
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:16.239
Yes, it is validation because you know, these elements that are the game elements, for me, not in the gaming community, but deeply in the leather community, you have managed to select things that are very leather, very true to leather culture now and in the 80s.
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:23.519
So, whatever due diligence you were doing with your research, it paid off because these are elements that are really I feel connected to.
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:25.360
Um, what's next?
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:26.639
Where do you want this to go?
00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.119
Are you still running this game?
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:30.400
What do you want next?
00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:32.239
Moss will start with you.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:35.280
I absolutely hope to run it in Seattle.
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:41.280
I attempted to do a playtest in Seattle previously and didn't get together quite enough people for it during the playtest phase.
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:46.719
But now that I've fully been in a run of the game, that gives me an even stronger sense of how to facilitate it.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:51.360
And also I have even more past gameplay experiences I can share about to hype people up.
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.239
So I definitely hope to run it in Seattle in future.
00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:00.159
I also believe one of our longer-term goals is get it to a place where it is a shareable game that other people can run.
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:02.559
We have a lot of the materials ready for that already.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.679
It's, you know, a matter of finessing and fine-tuning.
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:16.239
A lot of our things exist in multiple documents that would need to be consolidated and reviewed for clarity to make sure that they're as easy as we can make them for someone else to pick up and play.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.760
Uh, because, you know, so much of the writing process exists in your own head.
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:35.199
And especially with game facilitation, I feel like it is a lovely and complex gift to get to see someone else facilitate your game if you get the chance, because it reveals so much about what about this is actually on the page, and what about how this is supposed to work is living in our heads.
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.000
Uh, and we're just filling in the gaps as we go.
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:48.320
Um but yeah, we recorded some instructional videos about how to do the adapted Arzamandi techniques so that there's a key reference for anyone who's setting up to facilitate that.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:56.480
Yeah, we want we want this game to get to be picked up by other people and live on in different dimensions and get explored in different ways.
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.840
Um, and yeah, no, we haven't we haven't made all our logistical decisions.
00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:06.000
I believe part of the vision with that too is this is not a project we are uh wanting or expecting to particularly make money on.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:24.320
Uh so if we put it out online, it will be sort of, you know, free with suggested donation to relevant charities, you know, like don't donate to a place that is doing work related to HIV AIDS, related to leather history, or something else of resonance in your community if you know about something local that we don't.
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:32.559
And my immediate next steps is uh going to the Stockholm Scenario Festival in Stockholm, Sweden in November 2026.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:41.440
So if any uh European listeners of Full Cow want to come play this game, as well as a lovely selection of other great LARPs, uh maybe I'll see you in Stockholm.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:46.320
I mean, I do have European listeners, so I hope someone does show up for you.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.559
And I'm assuming like if people want to find you options too.
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:53.039
Well, I have I do have Seattle listeners.
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:59.119
Uh if people want to find you, if they want to find the game, you'll give me resources I can put in the show notes.
00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:00.000
Is that right?
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:12.480
Yeah, um, we'd probably put it on itch uh so that I what you we can link each other's profiles on it, but mine is uh j-o-n-c-o-le-itch.io, where you'll find all my other games about interesting historical subjects.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:15.360
And maybe in winter 2026.
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:16.639
Hopefully in future.
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:19.920
And yeah, mine is beating the binary uh.itch.io.
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:33.119
I also have I write a lot of weird little tabletop game zines and also lots of little like solo reflective larks about everyday experiences, like writing public transit or cooking, or dealing with anxieties about places that stress you out when you were a kid.
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:40.800
So if you want much smaller, weirder little larks that you can pick up and play with no prep, uh we we both write things at a range of scales.
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:42.320
What is itch?
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:44.320
Uh fun question.
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:45.920
You want to take this or shall I jump?
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.519
Yeah, um, I'm trying to think of a good metaphor.
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:51.360
I I'm lost.
00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:52.719
Oh, it's it is a website.
00:37:53.360 --> 00:38:01.280
Yeah, it's a it's a web platform that was designed initially, I think, more around a place for developing and sharing indie computer games.
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:18.960
But essentially, it is a platform where you can share files for a project that you made directly and also do lots of fun web formatting for it and get comments and reviews and also run and participate in game jams where people work on projects around a specific theme in a specific time range.
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:32.400
And so uh quite a few years back now, in internet time anyway, there was an explosion of tabletop and LARP creators realizing that Itch also works great for sharing their small projects because it doesn't have to be a big digital game file.
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:36.000
It can be a PDF of your rules for how to go LARP something in person.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:39.360
People also share their comics and illustration projects on there too.
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:48.719
I got involved in Itch kind of when the tabletop game renaissance boomed there, and people started realizing you could do tabletop design game jams using this platform.
00:38:48.800 --> 00:39:00.960
And so a lot of people who had not designed games before uh or were looking for new ways to engage with design, jumped on this very lively bandwagon, and a whole bunch of people ran jams because it was very easy to run.
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:11.679
I ran one for making business card-sized mini games designed to exchange at game conventions, and over 80 people, most of whom I had never met before in my life, submitted uh games to the project.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:18.000
Uh my biggest uh singular just made by me game project was also the product of a game jam.
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:26.800
It was a game written for uh one of the record collection jams, which encouraged people to make uh games inspired by songs or albums of music.
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:36.559
So I took an angsty queer folk punk album, uh Tempest in a Teacup by Mal Blum and made a game about being an angsty queered or trans 20 something who's badly processing a recent breakup.
00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:57.679
Um that's how This Party Sucks came into being, um, which also definitely is part of the historic cultural DNA of R LARP because specifically making games about having complicated, multi-dimensioned emotions at a party that you're maybe trying to ignore so that you can party is uh part of the arc of how I became a game designer to begin with.
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:09.760
Now, we do hope to release this game in the near future, but uh to all the researchers and academics who created works that let us make this game at all, feel free to just shoot us an email.
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:15.920
We're happy to share, you know, a heap of documents that aren't uh beautiful if it is valid or important for your research.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.440
Uh yeah, I don't know.
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:18.639
I don't know who's listening to this.
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:23.840
I don't really have a good sense of who's on the full call audience, but academics for sure.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:32.719
I think probably a lot of gamers who are probably going to be excited to think about how their gaming lives and their kink lives continue to connect and intercept in ways.
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:34.880
So I'm glad you've opened that conversation.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:36.480
And I'm so grateful for having you here.
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:38.639
Is there anything else you want to share with the audience?
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.599
Anything else you want to say now that you have my platform?
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.440
John, we'll start with you.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:53.440
Um we based the bar in R of ARP uh significantly on uh Chicago's first leather bar, the Gold Coast.
00:40:53.519 --> 00:41:03.280
Uh and I I hope I'm not giving the names mixed up, but I had a real basement dungeon that was a really direct inspiration uh for the fictional the fictional stuff in our game.
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:09.760
Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's anything, yeah, trying to think if there's anything super specific uh I want to call out.
00:41:09.840 --> 00:41:16.000
I feel like we're definitely gonna be sending sending you links to put in show notes uh for things that inspired us.
00:41:16.239 --> 00:41:16.880
Yeah.
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:25.760
I would say uh in terms in terms of just general shout-outs, I just also want to thank again so much Twin Cities Leather uh for hosting us for that game.
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.199
We got to play in the Twin Cities.
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:28.159
They were charming.
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:32.559
They seemed mildly surprised by just how set up we were to run an event.
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:43.840
I don't think they'd rented the space to LARPers before, and so we came in with a bunch of gear and then didn't really need much of anything, um, other than a couple of logistical double checks and some ice water to put in a large picture.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:53.519
Um but they were gems to work with, and I also just straight up bought a bulldog harness from them in between the workshop prep and gameplay and wore it for game.
00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:08.239
And the picture of me moodily smoking a fake cigarette through my through my high-quality mask, wearing a harness and leaning on a historic uh glory hole that they just happened to have in their basement is an extremely treasured memory for me now.
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:11.519
If you are ever in the Twin Cities, please go check out Twin Cities Leather.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.800
They also have a mini leather library you can hang out and read in their cafe.
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:16.960
Oh, that part's very cool.
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:25.360
Uh, I will also add, yeah, you know, I I've been to Mid-Atlantic Leather and stood in the lobby watching a bunch of people in leather playing Magic the Gathering.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:33.360
And I think events like Claw, IML, MAL, these big leather gatherings that often have social kind of aspects.
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:38.800
If if you're a volunteer for one of those, this sort of LARP would be amazing at one of those sorts of events.
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.320
So hopefully they'll reach out to you.
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.159
In the meantime, I'm going to say thank you so much for making the time to be on Full Cal.
00:42:44.400 --> 00:42:46.800
This has been mind-blowingly interesting.
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:56.239
And now it's time for AskEdge, the segment where I answer questions from all of you.
00:42:56.480 --> 00:43:08.960
If you would like to submit a question, you can leave me a voicemail at speakpipe.com slash leatheredge, L-T-H-R-E-T-G-E-F, or you can send me an email at ask at fullcile.
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:13.679
And both of those are available as links in the show notes.
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:16.159
We have three questions this time.
00:43:16.400 --> 00:43:25.440
Ironically, not a single one of these came through either SpeakPipe or through ask at fullcile.show, but they reached me and I'm happy to answer them.
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:29.280
We're gonna start with a question from Mike in Portland.
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:30.320
Hi Edge.
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:32.559
Longtime listener, first time caller.
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:36.320
I'm Mike in Portland, Oregon, and my pronouns are he they.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:44.400
I've identified as a leather boy for decades now, and I recognize the actions and rituals that can help guide me into subspace.
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:52.400
You know, kneeling before a leather man, feeling him secure a collar around my neck, uh worshipping his boots.
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:54.000
You get the idea.
00:43:55.119 --> 00:43:59.840
As I enter middle age, I'm suddenly feeling an urge to exercise my dom top muscles more.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:03.280
How did you make that transition from sub to Dom?
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:07.840
And do you have any rituals now that help you get into the Dom headspace?
00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:09.280
Thank you so much.
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.519
These are two great questions, and thank you for sending those in.
00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:15.440
You know, how did I make that transition?
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:21.599
First of all, you need to recognize that you are on a very common evolutionary path.
00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:29.519
A lot of us sort of begin on the bottom slash submissive side and eventually grow into the top slash dominant side.
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:32.239
So kudos and welcome to the club.
00:44:32.800 --> 00:44:36.719
For me, that transition in part was made for me.
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:47.599
Like there came a point where I ran out of men who I felt could handle me, who could give me new experiences, new intensities, the things I was craving on the bottom.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:52.800
And as that was happening, I started having other men approaching me and calling me, sir.
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.719
So you may find that as well.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:44:59.519
Like there's just a kind of turn that happens where people naturally start approaching you.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:01.760
And you want to kind of key into that.
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:05.920
It's also entirely possible to kind of consciously make that movement.
00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:12.000
And I remember quite distinctly how strange it felt to wear my keys on the left.
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:18.000
So there's a bit of discomfort in making that transition, physical discomfort as you make that shift.
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:23.519
But it's really in part going to be made for you, and part is something you can decide to do.
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:31.039
And as you make that transition, you know, my general piece of advice is you already know what to do because you have that boy's mindset.
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:35.760
You know the floor plan of a boy's head because it's your head.
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:40.079
And so you already know how to act, how to move, what to do, what to say.
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:54.559
In terms of specifically transitioning into that mindset prior to a scene, I think that's something I do less now because that dominance has in some ways permeated every fiber of my being.
00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:02.639
And that doesn't mean I go barking orders at people at work, but it means there's a way I carry myself in the world that is reflective of that energy.
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.960
And so it's always kind of there with me.
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:13.280
And I don't know if that's been all the work I've done around decompartmentalizing or if it's just sort of I've done it so enough it's saturated me.
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:23.440
I will say, in general, I think for a lot of dominant peoples, the preparation before a scene is that ritualistic moving into headspace.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:33.119
And that might mean both planning the scene, it might mean getting certain items of cure out, it might mean setting up the playroom, it might mean getting into your gear.
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:42.960
And all of those things can have beautiful effects on the way you inhabit the space and the way you inhabit your body, and it can summon that dominant energy.
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:46.639
So in part, welcome to this transition.
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:47.280
It is beautiful.
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:48.159
I'm glad you're making it.
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:57.280
And in part, think about the way you prepare for that boy to approach, for the boy to arrive at your place, to go meet the boy.
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:01.679
And I think a lot of it tends to be geared in, geared into uh gear.
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:06.320
Much like you said, kneeling at boots might activate a submissive headspace.
00:47:06.480 --> 00:47:13.440
Putting on the boots, putting on the chaps, putting on the gloves can have a similar aspect from the other side.
00:47:13.599 --> 00:47:15.599
And so I hope I hope those were useful.
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:23.280
I hope your transition into dominance is smooth and easy and rewarding and fulfilling.
00:47:23.360 --> 00:47:25.519
And thank you so much for the question.
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:29.679
For the next question, we have one moment, let me find it.
00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:31.599
We have a question from David.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:39.679
And as someone who has been in the leather scene for a while, it's awesome to see when leather events promote inclusivity.
00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:44.960
But one thing I don't see folks talk too much about is how cost prohibitive some events are.
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:57.760
I was looking into attending a Pride event next month, but after seeing how expensive the hotel is alone, not including event registration and food/slash travel expenses, it gave me a lot more hesitation about saying yes to attend it.
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:04.960
My question to you is, for people that are new or wanting to grow within the scene, how do you pick and choose which events to attend?
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:09.679
And more so, how do you plan ahead for events that come with a heavy price tag?
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:10.800
Great question.
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:14.320
The first piece of advice I have is start local.
00:48:14.480 --> 00:48:16.639
So find the event that is closest to you.
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:30.000
There are a lot of smaller local events or regional events that both don't have all the same costs as some of the bigger events and can be within driving distance or within bus distance.
00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:31.920
So you can lower the cost of travel.
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:36.800
So the first piece of advice is find something, find the event closest to you.
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:40.960
Second piece of advice is go with lots of people.
00:48:41.280 --> 00:48:51.599
You can scram a lot of people into a hotel room, and having roommates in the hotel room both gives you a built-in social network, people to hang with, people to support you, and lowers the costs.
00:48:51.920 --> 00:49:05.199
Stock supplies in the hotel room so that you're not paying for expensive hotel water, you're not going out for meals, find a local CVS, find a local grocery store, stock up the room on drinks, snacks, and food.
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:13.599
The other tip that I think a lot of people don't realize is that for a lot of events, a lot of the bigger events in particular, they're usually desperate for volunteers.
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:20.159
And if you volunteer, you often will get a free or discounted package for the event.
00:49:20.400 --> 00:49:23.920
And this means, first of all, when you volunteer, you meet people.
00:49:24.159 --> 00:49:25.119
You meet people at the event.
00:49:25.280 --> 00:49:28.159
It's a great way to force yourself to meet people.
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:31.760
It's a great way to support the event, and it lowers the cost.
00:49:33.039 --> 00:49:42.000
Events are always going to be expensive, and that's not necessarily a uh function of the event as much as a function of worldwide economics right now.
00:49:42.239 --> 00:49:43.920
People have been asking me what events I'm going to.
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:50.320
Well, I've cut back a lot because the last time I was looking at going to Mates in Provincetown, one of my favorite events.
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:55.519
And the airfare alone was so cost prohibitive that I just couldn't do it.
00:49:55.840 --> 00:49:58.559
So this is something we're all going to struggle with.
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:04.400
And obviously, I have a I have a lot of access, I have a lot of privilege, but even I am starting to cut back on events.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.519
And so this is something we have to cope with.
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:17.039
And I think some of those coping strategies really has to do with being able to drive to an event, getting roommates, getting food in the hotel room, and finding ways to volunteer.
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.000
And those are all strategies that will reduce your costs.
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:28.559
For some of the big events, then you know you may save up a couple years to go to some event that you're really, really, really want to go to if you think it's worth it.
00:50:29.119 --> 00:50:34.400
But start local, start cheap, and start by rooming with people and start by volunteering.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:41.760
Last question is from Jonathan, and he writes, Edge, I've always enjoyed your podcast and have gained a lot from you.
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:43.679
I've been trying to formulate this question.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:44.719
Here goes.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:48.000
What has helped you maintain your leather edge persona?
00:50:48.239 --> 00:50:52.159
Leather has a bit of character as well, can't dom the cashier at Publix.
00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:53.599
That's a grocery store.
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:57.360
So we have to know how to deploy and retract it.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:51:02.639
Mine's kind of gotten stuck in the garage for a while, and I miss that side of me.
00:51:03.039 --> 00:51:05.599
There are a couple of questions here that are worth unpacking.
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:12.960
And the first is very much like Mike's question, which is what are the rituals you use to step into that, to deploy it?
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:14.960
So be mindful of things like that.
00:51:15.119 --> 00:51:24.400
I will tell you, during the pandemic, I consciously chose to wear gear periodically as a way of keeping that side of me alive.
00:51:24.559 --> 00:51:29.599
I had to kind of force myself to gear up, and doing that kept that connection going.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:42.239
So there might be a particular item of gear, there might be a particular scene, there might be a particular fetish that if you engage in really activates the neural pathways that then activate that side of you.
00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:47.599
And so forcing yourself to do that, forcing the body and the mind will follow.
00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:55.920
If I force myself into actions where my dominance or my submission has been really active, then I am able to access that energy.
00:51:56.480 --> 00:52:02.639
The other thing I really want to share with you, because you talk about yours getting stuck in the garage for a while.
00:52:02.880 --> 00:52:10.719
I've gone through long periods where I don't feel connected to leather, I don't feel connected to edge, and that's okay.
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:14.960
And sometimes that's because I'm working through mental health issues.
00:52:15.119 --> 00:52:20.320
Sometimes it's been I have other things going on in my life, and I just don't have the energy for that side of me.
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:24.559
And what I've learned is that inevitably it returns.
00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:27.119
Inevitably it returns.
00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:38.159
So in the immediate, for the immediate time being, you may want to think about forcing your body into actions that are connected to that energy, and your mind will follow.
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.480
But you might also say, you know what?
00:52:40.800 --> 00:52:45.360
I'm okay with not being able, with the fact that it's stuck in the garage.
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:46.880
I'm okay with that for now.
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:49.039
I'm not gonna panic about it for now.
00:52:49.119 --> 00:53:00.800
I'm gonna monitor my overall physical well-being, my overall emotional well-being, my overall spiritual well-being, and see if this is connected to larger issues that may need addressing with a mental health professional.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:04.320
And if it's not, I'm just gonna let myself rest here.
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.800
And I'm gonna let that stay in the garage.
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.920
I promise you, it will still be there when you're ready for it.
00:53:10.159 --> 00:53:13.360
And so you can try to force it out of the garage.
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:27.119
I don't lure it, you can try to lure it out of the garage by doing actions, or you can just find some peace in that, put some energy into something else in your life, knowing that it will come back and you will return to it.
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:31.599
And I certainly hope that is a useful, helpful answer for you.
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:33.599
And that's all we have for Ask Edge.
00:53:33.679 --> 00:53:34.719
These were three great questions.
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:36.079
I'm so grateful for people.
00:53:36.320 --> 00:53:44.960
Please consider leaving me a voicemail at speakpipe.com/slash leatheredge, or sending me a question at ask at fullcal.show.
00:53:45.199 --> 00:53:46.320
Thanks so much.
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:51.119
And that's it for this episode.
00:53:51.280 --> 00:53:52.639
Thank you so much for joining me.
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:57.920
Please consider subscribing, or you can send feedback to edge at fullcow.show.
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:00.960
As always, may your leather journey be blessed.