Jonathan Domsky - Why Great Leaders Never Stop Growing

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But I pivoted to getting degrees in
economics and Chinese.
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And the week that I graduated from
college,
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I was on a plane with a one way ticket to
China.
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This was nineteen ninety four.
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Spent the next year and a half there and
it changed the course of my life.
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~ our first SOP, we had an SOP manual.
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the the first SOP in the in the book was
when not to follow an SOP.
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know, these procedures are for ninety five
percent of our customers ninety five
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percent of the time, but we don't wanna be
rigid and,
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you know, follow rules when it's just
obviously destroying value.
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But by training on this th these things,
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it helped people just know exactly how to
thrive and excel in their jobs.
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And it made them happier, it made them
more confident,
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made them more independent.
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Hey there, and welcome to From the Ground
Up Show,
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the show where we encourage and inspire
the next generation of free thinking
leaders
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by telling the stories of those that have
been there,
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done that, and are still getting it done.
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Building a life that they love with their
hearts,
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their hands, and their hustle.
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I am your host, Erick Loden. If you guys
enjoy the show,
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So today, this is gonna be a fun
conversation.
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I am joined by Jonathan Domsky,
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co founder of Kidorable, a company that
transformed ordinary children's
accessories
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into imaginative products loved by
families around the world.
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What began in a small apartment in
nineteen ninety seven grew into a
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Global brand carried by thousands of
retailers across more than twenty
countries.
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Along the way, Jonathan built a business
rooted in creativity,
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quality, and a deep understanding of what
delights both children and parents.
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More recently, Jonathan has turned his
attention to helping entrepreneurs find
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greater clarity, purpose, and fulfillment
through his work as
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the founder of Untangled Coaching.
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Jonathan, welcome to From the Ground Up
Show.
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I'm delighted to be here, Erick.
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Nowhere else I'd
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Yeah.
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rather be than right here with you.
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Let's get to it.
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Awesome. Well, I am excited to hear all
about your business and the idea that that
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sparked a worldwide brand. But before we
get to that,
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we like to learn a little bit about all of
our guests going clear back to childhood.
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So do you mind telling us about what life
was like growing up and
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and how does someone grow up to have the
type of creativity and drive that you
have?
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Well, Erick, I had a very non-traditional
path to entrepreneurship.
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I grew up in an upper middle class home
with every opportunity
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~ in suburban Chicago. It was also a
physically an unsafe place.
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And you know, I emerged from that home
with all sorts of things that
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On the one hand held me back and on the
other,
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~ gave me the perspective, gave me the
drive to ~ work at to do the work that
I've
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done and accomplish what I've what what
what I've accomplished.
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You know, the biggest dysfunction that I
carried with me from my childhood
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is I was emotionally muted. Like I just
wouldn't share anything about who
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I was or what I thought or what I felt.
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Because if I did, you know, that
information would be used immediately to
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~ you know to hurt me. And ~ you know,
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it was true at eight years old,
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you know, it wasn't true at twenty-eight,
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but it took me a couple decades to figure
that stuff out.
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But the ~ you know, as soon as I could
leave home at 17,
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went to college, started out studying
engineering,
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thought I wanted to be a thought I wanted
to become become an engineer,
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turns out I didn't.
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But I pivoted to getting degrees in
economics and Chinese.
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And the week that I graduated from
college,
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I was on a plane to a one way with a one
way ticket to China.
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This was nineteen ninety four.
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Spent the next year and a half there and
it changed the course of my life.
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Wow. Well I I wanna hear about that
experience,
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but I'm curious what led to the decision
to study economics and Chinese?
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Did you ~ have a particular career track
in mind or or how did you wind up there?
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I did not.
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This was not a grand plan. you know,
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you University of Illinois, when you study
engineering,
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you study an eng you study engineering.
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It's a very rigid program. And I just
wanted a broader education.
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~ I was lucky enough to have some you
know,
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college credit going into school so I had
a little flexibility.
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And ~ I just thought Asia was cool.
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You know, I didn't have any I didn't know
anything about it,
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didn't barely even knew any Asian people.
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But I figured I could read, you know,
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other stuff of myself by myself.
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So my freshman year in college,
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I took a course in East Asian literature
and the professor's specialty
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was ancient Chinese poetry, and that's
what we spent the whole class on.
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I just thought it was
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But it was fun. So I decided to get a
double major in economics sorry,
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no engineering in Chinese
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And then after a couple of years,
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you know, I liked the science and math,
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I just didn't like the engineering.
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And I I knew I wanted to drop out of that
and I read the course catalog.
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And I put a little check mark next to
every course that looked interesting
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and it surprised me. There's there were a
lot of check marks around economics,
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so that's what I decided to major in.
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In my last two years in school,
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you know, a regular course loads fifteen
hours.
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~ took twenty two hours a semester plus a
couple of years of summer school when
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I'm graduating in the four years and
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Went off on my way, no idea what I would
expect.
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But I was expecting to have an adventure,
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and I did. I was expecting to perfect my
Chinese.
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You know, my twenties spoke Chinese far
more than I spoke English.
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I was not expecting that three weeks in
I'd meet the woman I'd be married
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to for twenty nine years, but that's what
happened.
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And when I came back to Chicago and she
came to the US for the first time,
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Erick, we were used to spending all of our
time together,
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like twenty three and a half plus hours a
day.
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We wanted to be able to keep doing it,
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we wanted to be able to go back and forth
between the US and China,
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and it just seemed like it'd be hard to do
that with a nine to five
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job and two weeks of vacation a year.
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So we decided to become entrepreneurs.
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And I had no background in business.
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Both my parents are professionals,
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a hundred percent of their friends are
professionals.
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I was
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twenty one, twenty two before I even knew
that there were a million things
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to do in this world and that being a
doctor and lawyer were only two of them.
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But ~
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Ha ha.
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you know, here we are and I I wouldn't
change I it wouldn't change anything about
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it. It set
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yeah.
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me on a life of purpose and abundance and
wouldn't have had that
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~ same opportunity if I wound up at a
university or a think tank somewhere.
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Yeah. So w what was the plan when you
bought that one way plane ticket to China?
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What what were you headed to China for?
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What was the plan?
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~ again, plan is a very ambitious word.
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But I had up my Lonely Planet guidebook
with dog-eared pages and all
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the places I wanted to see, and I had a
rough itinerary of the places
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I wanted to go. But ~ the first three
weeks I was in China,
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I hated it. Like it was horrible.
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No one understood me. I couldn't
understand anyone.
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It's a very
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Closed society. It's a very xenophobic pla
xenophobic place and I just felt like
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total I just stuck out like a sore thumb.
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I I was taller than everybody,
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I was whiter than everybody. You just
there was it was just I I felt very alone.
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And I remember I was on a bus and I met
some British tourist and I
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was telling him my story
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And he's like, Really? One way ticket to
China.
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Don't you think you should have visited
first before before deciding to,
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you know, do all this stuff? And you know,
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maybe that was the maybe that was good
advice,
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but ~ you know, something that I learned
that life is
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a curriculum perfectly designed to work
out our purpose.
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Just to look at whatever's happening in
our life and say,
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like, what is it that I need to learn?
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Who is it I need to be? What's the action
I need to take?
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And I was ready to give up.
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But the day after that low point was in
this beautiful city called Hangzhou.
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A thousand years ago it was a pr it was
the capital of all China,
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it's a center of art and culture,
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it's just beautiful. And
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I wanted to rent a bike to just ride
around this scenic lake.
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But I couldn't find the place to rent the
bike.
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I guess my map was out of date.
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And I asked people on the street,
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nobody knew. I walked into an office
building.
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I figure someone who works here,
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maybe they know where I could rent a bike.
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Happened to be the ~ office where my wife
who twenty years worked.
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And as soon as she saw me coming in,
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I was like a falling star. Like she had
never met,
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you know, any point when it wasn't Chinese
before.
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And she stood up and like she wanted to
help and she didn't know where
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I could rent a bike either, but she lent
me her bicycle and of course
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~ had to return it to her that night and
they took her out to dinner
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and seven months later we were engaged.
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Wow. Wow, that is quite a story.
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So w what did you end up doing in China?
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Did you find a job while you were there?
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What what did you you show up as a
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Yeah, found a job, I found an apartment.
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I got a job in a small English educational
magazine,
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focused on middle schoolers. And my job
was to be editor,
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writer and translator. And ~ yeah,
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for for a year I I worked in ~ Chinese
office and ~ you know,
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just learned the culture, learned the
language,
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made friends, fell in love, got married
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And it set me on this path of
entrepreneurship.
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You know, I was just a couple months ago I
was with a group of friends.
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all my all all my friends are
entrepreneurs.
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And we were we were all having dinner
together and we were asking,
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like what's your story? Like how did you
like how did you become an entrepreneur?
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And one woman told me, and this was pretty
representative in the group,
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00:11:14,875 --> 00:11:19,068
She said that her father told her when she
was eight that she would never get a job,
232
00:11:19,068 --> 00:11:20,629
that no one would ever hire her.
233
00:11:20,629 --> 00:11:23,225
And that she had to be an entrepreneur
because she was just she
234
00:11:23,225 --> 00:11:25,433
had just this personality. She had to do
it her way.
235
00:11:25,433 --> 00:11:27,834
And that's a pretty typical path to
entrepreneurship,
236
00:11:27,834 --> 00:11:30,987
is that just we think we know how to do
things better than other people.
237
00:11:30,987 --> 00:11:32,628
We see opportunities that others don't.
238
00:11:32,628 --> 00:11:34,880
We think a little bit differently than
most of our peers.
239
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,342
~ I was an accidental entrepreneur.
240
00:11:37,342 --> 00:11:39,804
My I my entrepreneurial story is a love
story.
241
00:11:40,735 --> 00:11:43,828
man. So you ~ you meet the love of your
life.
242
00:11:43,828 --> 00:11:44,948
you guys stay
243
00:11:44,449 --> 00:11:45,449
Yeah.
244
00:11:44,948 --> 00:11:49,202
in China for a little while and eventually
want to move back to the US and that
245
00:11:48,854 --> 00:11:49,854
Yeah.
246
00:11:49,202 --> 00:11:53,246
led to starting your own company and your
entrepreneurial journey.
247
00:11:53,246 --> 00:11:54,307
~ was
248
00:11:53,806 --> 00:11:54,806
Yeah.
249
00:11:54,307 --> 00:11:58,460
Kidorable your first foray into
entrepreneurship or did you
250
00:11:58,460 --> 00:11:59,641
try something else first?
251
00:11:59,648 --> 00:12:01,573
~ no so Codorva was the first foray,
252
00:12:01,573 --> 00:12:05,857
although it ~ it changed a lot the first
few months.
253
00:12:06,586 --> 00:12:09,347
you know, I I very much just naturally
have an operational mindset.
254
00:12:09,347 --> 00:12:10,687
I see everything as a process.
255
00:12:10,687 --> 00:12:12,528
you know, my wife and partner in the
business,
256
00:12:12,528 --> 00:12:15,349
she's a creative genius and an artist.
257
00:12:15,349 --> 00:12:20,580
you know, went to art school and just had
this real intuition about what excites
258
00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,381
kids' imaginations to become a part of
their play.
259
00:12:23,381 --> 00:12:26,462
But when so we came back to the US,
260
00:12:26,462 --> 00:12:30,619
I just I got a job as a minus as an
administrative assistant to just save
261
00:12:30,619 --> 00:12:31,823
a little bit of money. you know,
262
00:12:31,823 --> 00:12:32,823
I
263
00:12:32,775 --> 00:12:34,556
I had to borrow money for a plane ticket
home.
264
00:12:34,556 --> 00:12:40,191
Like we started with nothing. And she
spent the first year just learning English
265
00:12:40,191 --> 00:12:42,643
and like basic computer skills and stuff
like that.
266
00:12:42,643 --> 00:12:43,643
I saved a little bit of money.
267
00:12:43,604 --> 00:12:47,207
And ~ the next year we went back to China,
268
00:12:47,207 --> 00:12:49,028
we talked to everybody we knew,
269
00:12:49,028 --> 00:12:50,870
we went to some export trade shows,
270
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:55,544
and we came back with a bunch of products
that had nothing to do with each other.
271
00:12:55,544 --> 00:12:56,853
Like we had ~
272
00:12:57,067 --> 00:13:02,976
pottery and silk scarves and decorative
like tabletop items.
273
00:13:02,976 --> 00:13:09,506
We also have had some kind of fun 3D kids'
umbrellas and some cute painted hangers.
274
00:13:10,271 --> 00:13:15,633
And we went to the Chicago Gift Show and
the Chicago Apparel Trade Show that
summer.
275
00:13:15,633 --> 00:13:17,404
And the kids' stuff sold best,
276
00:13:17,404 --> 00:13:19,715
so we decided that we were in the kids
business.
277
00:13:19,715 --> 00:13:23,956
And then within six months we created this
niche of fun,
278
00:13:23,956 --> 00:13:27,097
practical, unique children's accessories.
279
00:13:27,097 --> 00:13:29,038
Everyday items that all kids need,
280
00:13:29,038 --> 00:13:32,420
but just do something fun and creative and
special with it so
281
00:13:32,420 --> 00:13:35,081
it excites their imaginations and becomes
a part of their everyday play.
282
00:13:35,081 --> 00:13:38,803
So rain boots that look like frogs and
ladybugs or
283
00:13:38,893 --> 00:13:42,385
firemen or ballerina that kids beg to put
on when it's raining.
284
00:13:42,385 --> 00:13:46,718
Umbrellas that are three D with little
ears that are ~ again,
285
00:13:46,718 --> 00:13:50,571
you know, frogs or ladybugs or you know
spaceships and stuff like that.
286
00:13:50,571 --> 00:13:53,483
And then it grew. You know, and every year
we'd add a new product line,
287
00:13:53,483 --> 00:13:56,935
we'd add new styles. we traveled the
country going to trade shows,
288
00:13:56,935 --> 00:14:00,798
signing up customers and most importantly
signing up sales reps ~ to
289
00:14:00,798 --> 00:14:02,658
do the sales for us. And the company grew.
290
00:14:02,658 --> 00:14:08,092
Huh. And so I know you said you were
working as an administrative assistant
there
291
00:14:08,092 --> 00:14:09,713
for a while. ~ at
292
00:14:09,377 --> 00:14:10,377
Yeah.
293
00:14:09,713 --> 00:14:14,196
what point did you quit your day job and
go all in on Kidorable?
294
00:14:14,196 --> 00:14:15,857
yeah, this was not a gradual process.
295
00:14:15,857 --> 00:14:20,180
The plan from the beginning was to start a
business because this was
296
00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:23,061
a love story and we wanted to be able to
spend all of our time together.
297
00:14:23,061 --> 00:14:27,513
And while it was necessary for me to save
fifteen thousand dollars to seed money
298
00:14:27,513 --> 00:14:30,644
to invest in the business, and it was
necessary for her to learn,
299
00:14:30,644 --> 00:14:34,686
you know, English and to you know
assimilate into US ~ into US culture,
300
00:14:34,686 --> 00:14:38,368
the the plan from the beginning was to
quit and start that business.
301
00:14:39,316 --> 00:14:42,838
So as soon as ~ I think it was fifteen
thousand dollars that I'd signed up,
302
00:14:42,838 --> 00:14:45,040
we'd we were living in a studio apartment,
303
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:46,621
we cooked all of our own meals,
304
00:14:46,621 --> 00:14:51,344
we were very cheap, just saving every
penny we could because we wanted to
305
00:14:51,344 --> 00:14:52,785
be able to spend all the day together
again.
306
00:14:52,785 --> 00:14:56,146
And ~ yeah, so quit quit my job,
307
00:14:56,146 --> 00:14:58,658
went to China, came back with all this
stuff,
308
00:14:58,658 --> 00:15:00,890
did those trade shows. The first year
309
00:15:01,246 --> 00:15:04,527
We had sales of forty thousand dollars and
we had expenses
310
00:15:04,527 --> 00:15:08,628
of forty thousand dollars. We pretty much
broke even living on almost nothing.
311
00:15:08,628 --> 00:15:13,399
And we supported ourselves by doing ~
craft fairs,
312
00:15:13,399 --> 00:15:15,010
sidewalk sales, stuff like that.
313
00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:18,186
We'd you know, on a week on the on the
weekend we'd put out a you know,
314
00:15:18,186 --> 00:15:20,431
put out a booth and you know, sell retail.
315
00:15:20,431 --> 00:15:25,353
that first year we rented a kiosk in a
local mall from August through
316
00:15:25,453 --> 00:15:29,434
~ through Christmas and again it was just
barely enough to pay our bills.
317
00:15:30,076 --> 00:15:33,028
But that first year, again, forty thousand
dollars of sales,
318
00:15:33,028 --> 00:15:35,289
forty thousand dollars in expenses.
319
00:15:35,289 --> 00:15:39,421
The second year we kind of figured things
out and sales grew
320
00:15:39,421 --> 00:15:42,412
to four hundred thousand dollars with a
hundred thousand dollar profit.
321
00:15:42,412 --> 00:15:45,613
Our next year sales grew to one point two
million,
322
00:15:45,613 --> 00:15:47,695
the year after that two point four
million,
323
00:15:47,695 --> 00:15:50,137
and you know we we topped out a little
over six million dollars.
324
00:15:50,137 --> 00:15:54,981
Wow. Wow. And I'm sure probably everyone
listening is familiar with w your
products,
325
00:15:54,981 --> 00:15:57,243
even if they didn't know where that's
where they came from.
326
00:15:57,243 --> 00:16:02,997
~ we've all seen the the cute rain boots
with the frogs and ladybugs and things on
327
00:16:03,247 --> 00:16:08,456
W what was the most difficult thing you
faced building that business?
328
00:16:08,456 --> 00:16:09,608
What what was the hardest
329
00:16:09,072 --> 00:16:10,072
~
330
00:16:09,608 --> 00:16:10,608
part?
331
00:16:10,453 --> 00:16:14,897
Yeah. So the hardest thing was the Great
Recession,
332
00:16:14,897 --> 00:16:16,618
two thousand eight, two thousand and nine.
333
00:16:16,618 --> 00:16:22,683
And it wasn't just that the economy was
bad and sales were falling,
334
00:16:22,683 --> 00:16:26,527
which which they did, and we lost money
for the first time and that's never fun.
335
00:16:26,527 --> 00:16:30,390
But there were a lot of just big
structural things that were happening
336
00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:31,611
in the economy at the same time.
337
00:16:31,611 --> 00:16:36,024
So we built our business as a wholesale
company working with small independent
338
00:16:36,045 --> 00:16:41,529
mom and pop businesses. And those
companies had been going out
339
00:16:41,529 --> 00:16:43,951
of business slowly for thirty years.
340
00:16:43,951 --> 00:16:46,393
And then they started going out of
business really fast.
341
00:16:47,165 --> 00:16:51,698
There wasn't a week that went by when we
would get a letter from a from a retailer,
342
00:16:51,698 --> 00:16:54,220
you know, from some local store saying,
343
00:16:54,220 --> 00:16:57,712
We regret to inform you that this is our
fortieth and last year in business.
344
00:16:57,712 --> 00:16:59,603
This it just happened every week.
345
00:16:59,603 --> 00:17:00,994
We were losing customers left and right.
346
00:17:00,994 --> 00:17:04,877
At the same time, you know, the internet
was really coming into its
347
00:17:04,877 --> 00:17:08,069
own as a competitive ~ force. You know,
348
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:09,750
these days everybody buys from Amazon,
349
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:11,991
but you 2005 it was kind of a new thing.
350
00:17:11,991 --> 00:17:15,123
You you know, a lot of people still hadn't
~ you know had that habit.
351
00:17:15,123 --> 00:17:20,508
And all of our customers were feeling this
competitive threat from the internet,
352
00:17:20,508 --> 00:17:22,840
from you know, Amazon, Macy's dot com,
353
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,313
Target.com, all these places. And they
wanted protection from it.
354
00:17:26,313 --> 00:17:28,595
There were these huge, you know,
355
00:17:28,595 --> 00:17:32,438
just economic changes happening and a lot
of retailers like they had a policy,
356
00:17:32,438 --> 00:17:34,449
like if you sell online, we won't buy your
product.
357
00:17:34,449 --> 00:17:36,110
And when we started our business,
358
00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:37,510
building them on the you know,
359
00:17:37,510 --> 00:17:39,953
building our business on these small
independent retailers,
360
00:17:39,953 --> 00:17:42,335
that was a viable business model.
361
00:17:42,335 --> 00:17:44,777
But when they were going out of business
left and right,
362
00:17:44,777 --> 00:17:47,850
there just weren't enough of them left and
they weren't buying enough that
363
00:17:47,850 --> 00:17:52,974
we could ~ we we could continue to thrive
on our own by protecting them from what
364
00:17:52,974 --> 00:17:54,244
was happening in the wider economy.
365
00:17:54,244 --> 00:17:55,514
And we struggled for a long time.
366
00:17:55,514 --> 00:17:59,406
We we resisted working with big customers
like Amazon and Macy's.
367
00:17:59,406 --> 00:18:02,727
We tried to protect them from competition
from each other.
368
00:18:02,727 --> 00:18:04,998
Like we wouldn't sell to two retailers in
the same zip code.
369
00:18:04,998 --> 00:18:08,338
Until I was listening, ~ I was listening
to an interview with Bill Ford.
370
00:18:08,338 --> 00:18:10,440
He was the CEO of Ford Motor Company,
371
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,160
and someone asked him, you know,
372
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,916
Ford was an early investor in zip car,
373
00:18:14,916 --> 00:18:15,941
you know, where you could, you know,
374
00:18:15,941 --> 00:18:16,941
car rental.
375
00:18:16,581 --> 00:18:19,073
And the interviewer interviewer asked him,
376
00:18:19,073 --> 00:18:22,296
like, Aren't you afraid that interviewing
in zip card's gonna cannibalize your
377
00:18:22,296 --> 00:18:24,498
business? And this was before Uber and all
that sort of stuff,
378
00:18:24,498 --> 00:18:26,970
but triple you could say that about you
know ride sharing.
379
00:18:26,970 --> 00:18:29,432
And Bill Ford said, I'll never forget
this,
380
00:18:29,432 --> 00:18:31,334
he said, It's happening whether we like it
or not,
381
00:18:31,334 --> 00:18:34,126
so we may as well like it. It's happening
382
00:18:33,638 --> 00:18:34,638
Mm.
383
00:18:34,126 --> 00:18:35,748
whether we like it or not, so we may as
well like it.
384
00:18:35,748 --> 00:18:37,029
And I came back from that and I'm like,
385
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:39,661
you know, the internet's happening whether
we like it or not.
386
00:18:39,661 --> 00:18:43,022
These companies that we build our business
on,
387
00:18:43,022 --> 00:18:44,022
who we love.
388
00:18:44,293 --> 00:18:46,014
They're going out of business whether we
like it or not.
389
00:18:46,014 --> 00:18:47,215
So we may as well like
390
00:18:46,662 --> 00:18:47,662
Mm-hmm.
391
00:18:47,215 --> 00:18:49,956
it. And that was our pivot, two years too
late,
392
00:18:49,956 --> 00:18:53,578
to selling direct to consumer on Kadorable
dot com,
393
00:18:53,578 --> 00:18:55,419
our own direct to consumer website,
394
00:18:55,419 --> 00:18:58,061
embracing Amazon, embracing the big box
stores.
395
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:03,420
Hm. And so y you said pretty definitively
they're two years too late.
396
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:04,420
~
397
00:19:03,997 --> 00:19:04,997
Yeah.
398
00:19:04,343 --> 00:19:06,197
what did that pivot look like?
399
00:19:06,197 --> 00:19:08,852
What what did being late to the game how
did that hurt you?
400
00:19:08,852 --> 00:19:10,743
Well it hurt us because we lost half a
million dollars.
401
00:19:10,743 --> 00:19:11,764
So that was the first
402
00:19:11,082 --> 00:19:12,082
Yeah.
403
00:19:11,764 --> 00:19:14,109
thing. that was never fun. and it's a hard
pivot.
404
00:19:14,109 --> 00:19:16,271
You know, we had to lay a few people off,
405
00:19:16,271 --> 00:19:19,973
we had to cut expenses, we had to cut some
salaries for while we were turning things
406
00:19:19,973 --> 00:19:21,895
around. The hardest thing though wasn't
even that.
407
00:19:21,895 --> 00:19:24,998
I mean, that was hard. Like that's it's
it's never fun.
408
00:19:24,998 --> 00:19:27,560
But the hardest thing was just between our
ears.
409
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:32,703
You know, we'd we had this idea that we
built this business on partnering with
410
00:19:33,101 --> 00:19:35,784
our our friends with with you know people
we'd come to love,
411
00:19:35,784 --> 00:19:41,120
these independent retailers. And there
came a time where the business just wasn't
412
00:19:41,441 --> 00:19:44,865
there anymore. It was I mean, we could
nobly go down with the ship,
413
00:19:44,865 --> 00:19:47,148
but that wouldn't serve anybody.
414
00:19:48,053 --> 00:19:53,495
And it took us months of meetings just
figuring out how are we gonna do this,
415
00:19:53,495 --> 00:19:55,856
are we gonna do this, how are we gonna
communicate it.
416
00:19:55,856 --> 00:19:59,108
It was really hard, Erick. had a lot of
sleepless nights and a
417
00:19:59,108 --> 00:20:02,549
lot of tough conversations until we
committed to you know,
418
00:20:02,549 --> 00:20:05,150
Kodorville was a values based
organization.
419
00:20:05,150 --> 00:20:09,911
And we had three core values. And the
first one was that we had the courage
420
00:20:09,911 --> 00:20:10,911
to do what's right.
421
00:20:11,135 --> 00:20:13,157
For ourselves, the company, and our
customers.
422
00:20:13,157 --> 00:20:19,445
And it was a false courage to protect
independent retailers against the world.
423
00:20:19,445 --> 00:20:23,187
Because that was impossible. And the real
courage was to face reality,
424
00:20:23,187 --> 00:20:25,068
face the brutal facts, and to make a
choice.
425
00:20:25,068 --> 00:20:26,550
But it took us a long time to figure that
one out.
426
00:20:27,415 --> 00:20:31,610
Mm. Yeah, that can be hard when something
that's such a a key part
427
00:20:31,610 --> 00:20:35,786
of your identity has to change and shift
and ~
428
00:20:35,414 --> 00:20:36,414
Yeah.
429
00:20:36,467 --> 00:20:37,467
yeah.
430
00:20:37,136 --> 00:20:39,769
I want to take a moment to tell you about
our new partner,
431
00:20:39,769 --> 00:20:43,552
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hard,
432
00:20:43,552 --> 00:20:47,083
you know the frustration of trying to
clean sweat out of your clothes.
433
00:20:47,083 --> 00:20:51,182
They just aren't the same. Your clothes
come out stiff and they start
434
00:20:51,182 --> 00:20:54,455
to smell immediately if they get even a
little bit wet.
435
00:20:54,455 --> 00:20:57,385
Most detergents don't actually dissolve
sweat.
436
00:20:57,385 --> 00:20:59,844
They just mask it with strong fragrances.
437
00:20:59,844 --> 00:21:02,505
Athlete Fresh dives deep into fabrics,
438
00:21:02,505 --> 00:21:07,068
especially synthetics, to break down the
enzymes that produce that smell.
439
00:21:07,068 --> 00:21:09,580
They rinse sweat out once and for all,
440
00:21:09,580 --> 00:21:12,121
leaving you with clean, fresh clothes.
441
00:21:12,121 --> 00:21:16,921
They can even bring new life to your
favorite old work clothes or athletic gear
442
00:21:16,921 --> 00:21:20,123
by removing the residue that other
detergents leave behind.
443
00:21:20,123 --> 00:21:21,260
Make sure you check out
444
00:21:21,261 --> 00:21:22,261
Athlete Fresh.
445
00:21:22,314 --> 00:21:25,549
athletefresh.shop/fromthegroundupshow
446
00:21:25,785 --> 00:21:27,088
Although I'll tell you another story.
447
00:21:27,088 --> 00:21:30,735
You know, another one of our core values
was a safe,
448
00:21:30,735 --> 00:21:32,198
supportive, positive environment.
449
00:21:32,198 --> 00:21:34,242
And when we first you know, we
450
00:21:35,083 --> 00:21:36,223
You know, ten years before this,
451
00:21:36,223 --> 00:21:37,644
we got our first major account,
452
00:21:37,644 --> 00:21:40,165
Marshall Fields, here in Ch based in
Chicago.
453
00:21:40,165 --> 00:21:43,026
They were later bought ~ Macy's and then
you know Target.
454
00:21:43,026 --> 00:21:47,357
But ~ they're our first major account and
they required that we
455
00:21:47,357 --> 00:21:50,248
use something called EDI, electronic data
interface.
456
00:21:50,248 --> 00:21:53,369
It's this big, expensive, clunky,
457
00:21:53,369 --> 00:21:58,290
complicated system that big companies use
to streamline their ordering
458
00:21:58,351 --> 00:21:59,351
and their payments.
459
00:21:59,427 --> 00:22:01,718
But for us it was just pure hassle and
expense.
460
00:22:01,718 --> 00:22:06,210
Like it cost us thousands of dollars and
just a lot of time to figure it out.
461
00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:10,622
And I asked our IT guy, our IT consultant
who was sitting up for us,
462
00:22:10,622 --> 00:22:13,033
his name was Doug. I said, Doug,
463
00:22:13,033 --> 00:22:15,785
what would have to be true for me to say,
464
00:22:15,785 --> 00:22:17,726
Thank goodness the EDI exists?
465
00:22:17,726 --> 00:22:18,896
Because right now we really hated it.
466
00:22:18,896 --> 00:22:24,599
And he said, Well, if you ever get enough
orders from large retailers that
467
00:22:25,299 --> 00:22:28,482
it actually saves you time and money to
automate it versus,
468
00:22:28,482 --> 00:22:30,954
you know, having someone to do all that
manual data entry,
469
00:22:30,954 --> 00:22:33,586
then you'll be really happy to have the re
really happy to have it.
470
00:22:33,586 --> 00:22:35,868
Well, it took fifteen years, but we got to
that point,
471
00:22:35,868 --> 00:22:38,791
where we were getting hundreds of orders a
day from Amazon,
472
00:22:38,791 --> 00:22:39,962
from Macy's, from people like this.
473
00:22:39,962 --> 00:22:44,125
We had a we had two full time people who
all they did was data entry
474
00:22:44,125 --> 00:22:45,456
for these major accounts. And
475
00:22:45,812 --> 00:22:48,812
Not only that, but Amazon started
tightening their time windows.
476
00:22:48,812 --> 00:22:51,193
We used to have we used to have five to
seven days to ship.
477
00:22:51,193 --> 00:22:54,244
which, you know, it took two days to do
the data entry and then we'd pack
478
00:22:54,244 --> 00:22:55,674
it and you we'd get it out in five days.
479
00:22:55,674 --> 00:22:58,235
They changed it so that we had to ship
within two days,
480
00:22:58,235 --> 00:23:00,656
which was just impossible because it took
two days just for the data entry.
481
00:23:00,656 --> 00:23:02,126
So I called up Doug and I said,
482
00:23:02,126 --> 00:23:04,857
Doug, we need to automate this ~ EDI
thing.
483
00:23:04,857 --> 00:23:06,877
What's it gonna take? And he said,
484
00:23:06,877 --> 00:23:09,488
three months and fifty thousand dollars to
for it,
485
00:23:09,488 --> 00:23:11,999
we need new servers and equipment and all
that software and all that sort of stuff.
486
00:23:12,989 --> 00:23:14,420
And through no fault of their own,
487
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:19,121
it meant that two excellent beloved
employees would be losing their jobs.
488
00:23:19,963 --> 00:23:20,963
Mm.
489
00:23:20,101 --> 00:23:21,101
And
490
00:23:20,311 --> 00:23:22,332
if we didn't do this investment,
491
00:23:22,332 --> 00:23:23,553
we'd have they would have lost their jobs
anyway,
492
00:23:23,553 --> 00:23:25,884
because we would have lost the customer
because they were you know they they were
493
00:23:26,064 --> 00:23:27,484
you know tightening their requirements.
494
00:23:27,484 --> 00:23:29,905
And I talked to my friends about how I
should handle this,
495
00:23:29,905 --> 00:23:31,285
and they all told me the same thing.
496
00:23:31,285 --> 00:23:34,567
They said, Don't tell Keep in the dark,
497
00:23:34,567 --> 00:23:37,128
wait until the system's in place,
498
00:23:37,128 --> 00:23:39,709
and then give a couple months severance
and tell them
499
00:23:40,323 --> 00:23:41,754
you know, that their jobs are gone.
500
00:23:41,754 --> 00:23:45,547
And that's a safe thing to do because we
have a company to run and it
501
00:23:45,547 --> 00:23:48,319
was our busy season and if they had quit
or you know,
502
00:23:48,319 --> 00:23:51,271
because you know, it gave them three
months notice that they were gonna
503
00:23:51,271 --> 00:23:53,303
be losing their jobs, it would have really
put the company at risk.
504
00:23:53,303 --> 00:23:56,706
But it would have also violated our core
values having the courage
505
00:23:57,186 --> 00:23:58,447
to do what's right for ourselves,
506
00:23:58,447 --> 00:23:59,568
our company and our customers,
507
00:23:59,568 --> 00:24:03,922
and a safe, supportive and positive
environment that these people just
508
00:24:03,922 --> 00:24:05,633
got hit by lightning when I knew it was
happening,
509
00:24:05,633 --> 00:24:06,854
you know, three months in advance.
510
00:24:07,715 --> 00:24:10,945
So a week later, called him into,
511
00:24:10,945 --> 00:24:12,177
you know, our conference room,
512
00:24:12,177 --> 00:24:15,498
box of tissues on the table, severance
checks in hand,
513
00:24:15,498 --> 00:24:17,879
glowing letters of recommendation.
514
00:24:17,879 --> 00:24:20,881
And I told them, like, in two months,
515
00:24:20,881 --> 00:24:22,162
you know, here's what's happening,
516
00:24:22,162 --> 00:24:25,083
and you're gonna lose our job your your
your job's gonna be eliminated.
517
00:24:25,083 --> 00:24:27,924
And I really hope you stay to the end of
the year.
518
00:24:27,924 --> 00:24:30,185
And I'm giving you the dress severance
check right now.
519
00:24:30,185 --> 00:24:32,926
Like, you could leave tomorrow and it's
yours.
520
00:24:33,638 --> 00:24:36,319
But I hope you stay for another two months
to see us through the end of the season.
521
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:39,940
And, you know, if you ever need some time
to do an interview or whatever,
522
00:24:39,940 --> 00:24:44,079
go ahead. But ~ I chose to treat them with
humanity.
523
00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:46,323
I chose to be true to our core values.
524
00:24:46,323 --> 00:24:48,994
And one of them stayed until a week before
Christmas,
525
00:24:48,994 --> 00:24:50,905
like right through the end of our season,
526
00:24:50,905 --> 00:24:53,466
found a job that was closer to home that
actually paid more,
527
00:24:53,466 --> 00:24:56,728
so she turned out great. The others stayed
until the end.
528
00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:59,280
found a job two weeks after, you know,
529
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,621
she left us. Same thing, you know,
530
00:25:00,621 --> 00:25:02,041
closer to home, making more money.
531
00:25:02,041 --> 00:25:07,913
And everyone was watching. Everyone saw
how we acted in this ~ you know,
532
00:25:07,913 --> 00:25:10,924
an environment where we had a choice
between circling the wagons,
533
00:25:10,924 --> 00:25:12,524
acting in our narrowest self interest,
534
00:25:12,524 --> 00:25:14,985
or doing what's right and believing in our
values.
535
00:25:14,985 --> 00:25:19,057
And ~ you know, did we do this because it
was a smart decision business decision?
536
00:25:19,057 --> 00:25:20,467
No, we did it 'cause it's who we are.
537
00:25:20,467 --> 00:25:21,467
But
538
00:25:21,273 --> 00:25:22,273
Mm.
539
00:25:22,740 --> 00:25:23,740
you know.
540
00:25:23,778 --> 00:25:27,189
Being true to your values and everybody
seeing that and knowing that they could
541
00:25:27,189 --> 00:25:29,626
trust you and depend on you, it's just
good business sense.
542
00:25:29,626 --> 00:25:35,153
Yeah, that had to be a a difficult
discussion and a a difficult thing
543
00:25:35,153 --> 00:25:38,757
to work through. at what time during your
leadership of your company were
544
00:25:38,757 --> 00:25:39,878
you most afraid?
545
00:25:39,878 --> 00:25:43,878
~ so you know, I told you when I started
I'd know business I I know background
546
00:25:43,878 --> 00:25:45,741
in business. And I didn't know anything.
547
00:25:45,741 --> 00:25:47,882
Starting over ~ start starting out.
548
00:25:47,882 --> 00:25:53,145
but the definition the job description of
being an entrepreneur is to figure it out.
549
00:25:53,145 --> 00:25:56,066
You know, all of my entrepreneurial
friends,
550
00:25:56,066 --> 00:25:58,788
no one would have hired us to start our
companies.
551
00:25:58,788 --> 00:26:00,609
Like like like nobody.
552
00:26:01,419 --> 00:26:05,692
There there's there's I don't have a
single friend who waited until they were
ready
553
00:26:05,692 --> 00:26:08,324
and they knew everything before they
started their business.
554
00:26:08,324 --> 00:26:11,095
Like everyone started having no idea what
they were doing.
555
00:26:11,095 --> 00:26:12,547
You know, maybe they had a good idea,
556
00:26:12,547 --> 00:26:15,118
maybe they had a little bit of background
in the field or whatever.
557
00:26:15,118 --> 00:26:17,760
But the the job description is to figure
it out.
558
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,521
And I had a lot of figuring out to do.
559
00:26:19,521 --> 00:26:23,243
You know, Erick, I I tell people I'm only
naturally good at one thing
560
00:26:23,243 --> 00:26:24,624
in this world and it's learning.
561
00:26:24,624 --> 00:26:27,917
Like there there's almost nothing I've
ever tried in my life where just right
562
00:26:27,917 --> 00:26:29,197
out of the box, like, like
563
00:26:29,527 --> 00:26:30,970
I'm kinda good at this. Like no,
564
00:26:30,926 --> 00:26:31,926
Mm-hmm.
565
00:26:30,970 --> 00:26:31,970
I've been bad
566
00:26:31,431 --> 00:26:34,482
at everything I tried and then I learn and
I try and and then,
567
00:26:34,482 --> 00:26:37,863
you know, my I have a a a mastery mindset
where I just wanna,
568
00:26:37,863 --> 00:26:39,005
you know, become an expert in something.
569
00:26:39,895 --> 00:26:44,546
But ~ I was a terrible manager when when I
started and
570
00:26:44,546 --> 00:26:47,779
I wouldn't communicate clearly to my
employees,
571
00:26:47,779 --> 00:26:50,460
so of course they wouldn't do what I asked
them to do,
572
00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:52,151
or what I wanted them to do rather.
573
00:26:52,151 --> 00:26:57,144
And you know, they would make decisions
without you know,
574
00:26:57,144 --> 00:26:59,045
'cause I I I wasn't particularly
approachable or,
575
00:26:59,045 --> 00:27:02,146
you know, available and they make
decisions I didn't like and I would
576
00:27:02,386 --> 00:27:04,827
I wouldn't feel comfortable like telling
them,
577
00:27:04,827 --> 00:27:08,169
so there was all this drama that was
happening inside my own head and it was
just
578
00:27:08,669 --> 00:27:11,451
The whole thing was just ~ I was just a
terrible manager.
579
00:27:11,451 --> 00:27:17,563
Until I it's 2001 and I read a book that's
just required reading
580
00:27:17,563 --> 00:27:20,375
for anyone who manages people.
581
00:27:20,375 --> 00:27:23,957
It's called The Five Dysfunctions of a
Team by Pat Lancioni.
582
00:27:23,643 --> 00:27:24,856
Yep. Yeah.
583
00:27:23,957 --> 00:27:24,957
Five Dysfunctions of a Team
584
00:27:24,928 --> 00:27:29,440
by Pat Lancioni. And what Lancioni teaches
is that at the root of
585
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,641
all dysfunction of a team.
586
00:27:30,641 --> 00:27:34,313
Is a lack of trust. That people don't
trust each other.
587
00:27:34,313 --> 00:27:39,404
And when you don't trust that someone's
going to be able to receive bad news or,
588
00:27:39,404 --> 00:27:42,499
you know, a question, well then there's a
fear of conflict.
589
00:27:42,499 --> 00:27:45,641
You know, they're afraid to tell you that
the emperor has no clothes.
590
00:27:45,641 --> 00:27:47,612
They're afraid to tell you when something
goes wrong.
591
00:27:47,612 --> 00:27:49,233
They're afraid to tell you when there's a
mistake.
592
00:27:49,233 --> 00:27:50,884
and when there's fear of conflict,
593
00:27:50,884 --> 00:27:52,236
there's no commitment. Because
594
00:27:52,444 --> 00:27:53,905
the you know, the entrepreneur,
595
00:27:53,905 --> 00:27:57,699
the boss, says, Okay, guys, here's what
we're gonna do and the employees think,
596
00:27:57,699 --> 00:28:01,182
Well that's a dumb idea, but I'm not gonna
tell him because he's just gonna bite
597
00:28:01,182 --> 00:28:03,244
my head off or he's gonna dismiss me or,
598
00:28:03,244 --> 00:28:04,275
you know, make me feel stupid.
599
00:28:04,275 --> 00:28:06,547
So, you know, I never agreed to that,
600
00:28:06,547 --> 00:28:09,459
so there's no commitment. And when there's
no commitment,
601
00:28:09,459 --> 00:28:12,101
then there's no accountability.
602
00:28:12,722 --> 00:28:15,385
You can't hold me accountable for
something that I never even agreed to.
603
00:28:15,385 --> 00:28:17,738
And then when there's no accountability,
604
00:28:17,738 --> 00:28:19,210
there's an inattention to results.
605
00:28:19,210 --> 00:28:22,474
You know, we we wonder at the end of the
day why we didn't read our reach our
goals.
606
00:28:22,474 --> 00:28:27,190
And it's because there was the absence of
trust that led to the fear of conflict,
607
00:28:27,190 --> 00:28:31,265
that led to the ~ you know, lack of
commitment and the lack of accountability.
608
00:28:31,265 --> 00:28:34,076
And I remember just sitting in my office
and,
609
00:28:34,076 --> 00:28:37,311
you know, in spite of all that somehow we
managed to you know,
610
00:28:37,311 --> 00:28:39,513
have some success with sales and
profitability.
611
00:28:39,513 --> 00:28:42,716
But I just remember sitting in my office
being afraid to talk to my employees.
612
00:28:42,716 --> 00:28:46,760
Afraid to confront them with ~ the stuff
that was bothering me.
613
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,681
And I read this book and it changed my
life.
614
00:28:49,374 --> 00:28:52,855
And I called a company meeting and I told
them I apologized for
615
00:28:52,855 --> 00:28:55,778
all the idiotic things I was doing as a
manager.
616
00:28:55,778 --> 00:28:58,440
And so that from from now on we're gonna
start doing this stuff.
617
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,541
And I started instituting processes.
618
00:29:00,541 --> 00:29:01,742
starting with the daily huddle.
619
00:29:01,742 --> 00:29:04,524
Every morning, everybody in a room,
620
00:29:04,524 --> 00:29:06,666
standing meeting, literally standing,
621
00:29:06,666 --> 00:29:08,607
because you don't want people getting too
comfortable and sitting down.
622
00:29:08,607 --> 00:29:11,139
It's a five minute meeting. We don't want
it to be a half hour meeting.
623
00:29:09,836 --> 00:29:12,012
Yeah, it's the daily huddle. Yeah.
624
00:29:11,139 --> 00:29:12,860
It's f Yeah,
625
00:29:12,860 --> 00:29:13,911
it's a five minute meeting.
626
00:29:14,609 --> 00:29:16,159
And there's only three things on the
agenda.
627
00:29:16,159 --> 00:29:19,200
What are you expecting to happen today?
628
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,041
What are you expecting to happen this
week?
629
00:29:21,041 --> 00:29:23,522
And where are you stuck and need help?
630
00:29:23,522 --> 00:29:25,899
So that everybody knows what's going on,
631
00:29:25,899 --> 00:29:27,933
everybody knows what's ~ expected,
632
00:29:27,933 --> 00:29:33,065
and together with just having the courage
to listen and the courage
633
00:29:33,065 --> 00:29:35,445
to be clear about what I actually wanted,
634
00:29:35,445 --> 00:29:38,366
changed my life. Just beginning to
institute those systems.
635
00:29:38,366 --> 00:29:39,366
~
636
00:29:39,366 --> 00:29:42,333
And that's when we started really scaling
instead of scrambling.
637
00:29:42,333 --> 00:29:45,416
Okay. Well, I I know a lot of
entrepreneurs,
638
00:29:45,416 --> 00:29:47,078
especially kind of in your space,
639
00:29:47,078 --> 00:29:50,211
they s start with a product, focus on a
product.
640
00:29:50,211 --> 00:29:52,764
it sounds like you built far more than a
product.
641
00:29:52,764 --> 00:29:53,985
~ I can
642
00:29:53,628 --> 00:29:54,628
Yeah.
643
00:29:53,985 --> 00:29:55,546
tell you really care about your team,
644
00:29:55,546 --> 00:29:59,330
you really built a business and focused on
the processes in the business.
645
00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:03,604
di was it always that way? Did you kind of
start with a product and learn that along
646
00:30:03,604 --> 00:30:04,935
the way, or how did that happen?
647
00:30:04,935 --> 00:30:07,016
You know, I I have this operational
mindset.
648
00:30:07,016 --> 00:30:10,698
I just life is everything in life is a
process.
649
00:30:10,698 --> 00:30:14,860
And I remember talking with sales guys or
designers and you know artists
650
00:30:14,860 --> 00:30:17,241
and they'll say, Well, it's really art
more art than science.
651
00:30:17,241 --> 00:30:20,102
You can't really you know, you can't
really define the steps.
652
00:30:20,102 --> 00:30:23,124
And it's just wrong. Like if you say it's
more art than science,
653
00:30:23,124 --> 00:30:24,965
it just means that you don't know what the
process is,
654
00:30:24,965 --> 00:30:28,206
it's subconscious. And I would talk to so
655
00:30:28,904 --> 00:30:31,356
My my friends tease me that my love
language is SOPs,
656
00:30:31,356 --> 00:30:32,757
standard operating procedures.
657
00:30:32,757 --> 00:30:37,346
That just like why if you have five people
in your company,
658
00:30:37,346 --> 00:30:39,087
why would you have them all doing things a
different way?
659
00:30:39,087 --> 00:30:42,880
Why would you have them pra you'
practicing on their on your customers
instead
660
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,311
of practicing in a training meeting?
661
00:30:44,311 --> 00:30:45,512
we built
662
00:30:45,872 --> 00:30:48,093
A customer service training manual over
six months,
663
00:30:48,093 --> 00:30:52,094
15 minutes a day. We our our our ~ our
customer service team,
664
00:30:52,094 --> 00:30:55,695
I would lead a 15-minute daily training
meeting after lunch.
665
00:30:55,695 --> 00:30:59,596
And one day I remember just getting
frustrated that someone just responded
666
00:30:59,596 --> 00:31:03,457
to a customer service issue just in a way
that was just so obviously not
667
00:31:03,457 --> 00:31:05,678
a good way to do it. And then she was a
smart person,
668
00:31:05,678 --> 00:31:07,655
she was doing her best, like she cared
about the company,
669
00:31:07,655 --> 00:31:09,079
she cared about the customer, it just
wasn't,
670
00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:11,019
you know, just wasn't her finest moment.
671
00:31:11,019 --> 00:31:12,240
And I said
672
00:31:12,544 --> 00:31:14,695
Let's just make a list. What are all the
things that could go wrong
673
00:31:14,695 --> 00:31:16,985
in our company with regard to com c
customers?
674
00:31:16,985 --> 00:31:20,716
And over the course of just a couple of
these 15-minute meetings,
675
00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:22,526
we made a list of 70 things that could go
wrong.
676
00:31:22,526 --> 00:31:25,447
UBS could lose the package. It's not our
fault,
677
00:31:25,447 --> 00:31:27,207
but they lost the package, we need to deal
with it.
678
00:31:27,207 --> 00:31:29,778
We can forget to process an order.
679
00:31:29,778 --> 00:31:32,609
We can ship ladybug umbrellas instead of
frog umbrellas,
680
00:31:32,609 --> 00:31:33,769
just like all this stuff, right?
681
00:31:33,769 --> 00:31:36,870
And okay, we have a list of seventy things
that could go wrong.
682
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:39,811
And then one at a time over the next six
months.
683
00:31:40,455 --> 00:31:41,838
Every day we'd choose one or two,
684
00:31:41,838 --> 00:31:44,326
and I'd say, Okay, UPS lost a package,
685
00:31:44,326 --> 00:31:45,326
what do we do about it?
686
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:47,740
And one person would say like,
687
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:49,081
well, like that's not our fault.
688
00:31:49,081 --> 00:31:54,203
We should just ~ you know, we we should
just repack the package and get it,
689
00:31:54,203 --> 00:31:56,504
you know, send it to them and they'll get
it a week later and th that's just what
690
00:31:56,504 --> 00:31:57,835
makes sense. And someone else said,
691
00:31:57,835 --> 00:31:59,636
Well, you know, it's not our fault,
692
00:31:59,636 --> 00:32:02,517
but it's our responsibility, like the
customer they're depending on us.
693
00:32:02,517 --> 00:32:04,608
And they needed it for a sally.
694
00:32:04,608 --> 00:32:06,879
We should overnight it and we should just
eat that expense.
695
00:32:06,879 --> 00:32:08,130
We won't make any money on that order,
696
00:32:08,130 --> 00:32:09,461
but it's the right thing to do for the
customer.
697
00:32:09,461 --> 00:32:11,912
And we would just do this over and over
and say which of these
698
00:32:11,912 --> 00:32:13,282
is most consistent with our values,
699
00:32:13,282 --> 00:32:14,343
which of these is most
700
00:32:14,503 --> 00:32:18,814
~ you know consistent with growing the
company and we'd agree you know everyone
701
00:32:18,814 --> 00:32:21,165
in the department would agree like yep
that's the best way to do things
702
00:32:21,165 --> 00:32:23,166
and we'd write it down and then we trained
on it.
703
00:32:23,166 --> 00:32:27,347
And our staff were so happy because they
no longer had to guess.
704
00:32:27,347 --> 00:32:32,409
Like they just knew how to be excellent at
their jobs.
705
00:32:33,083 --> 00:32:34,684
And they knew that they didn't have to ask
management.
706
00:32:34,684 --> 00:32:36,816
They knew they could just make a decision
on the spot because they were trained
707
00:32:36,816 --> 00:32:37,877
on it. Like they knew what to do.
708
00:32:37,877 --> 00:32:41,320
~ our first SOP, we had an SOP manual.
709
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:46,164
the first SOP man in the the first SOP in
the in the book was when not
710
00:32:46,164 --> 00:32:47,164
to follow an SOP.
711
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,893
know, these procedures are for ninety five
percent of our customers ninety five
712
00:32:50,893 --> 00:32:53,933
percent of the time, but we don't wanna be
rigid and,
713
00:32:53,933 --> 00:32:56,948
you know, follow rules when it's just
obviously destroying value.
714
00:32:56,948 --> 00:32:59,070
But by training on this th these things,
715
00:32:59,070 --> 00:33:04,514
it helped people just know exactly how to
thrive and excel in their jobs.
716
00:33:04,514 --> 00:33:06,516
And it made them happier, it made them
more confident,
717
00:33:06,516 --> 00:33:07,817
made them more independent. And
718
00:33:08,235 --> 00:33:09,607
Yeah, even for our salespeople,
719
00:33:09,607 --> 00:33:12,330
even for our a ~ finance team,
720
00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:13,622
you know, they would just say like,
721
00:33:13,622 --> 00:33:15,173
Yeah, I just look at it and I know what to
do.
722
00:33:15,173 --> 00:33:20,099
And my gift is to ask these questions that
draws out those subconscious processes
723
00:33:20,099 --> 00:33:22,001
and like, Okay, here's a question that
you're asking.
724
00:33:22,001 --> 00:33:24,964
All right, ask this question. And then we
could train someone who
725
00:33:25,105 --> 00:33:26,326
it didn't come naturally to
726
00:33:26,326 --> 00:33:30,865
man, that's wonderful. I love that first
SOP it's like the anti bureaucrat rule.
727
00:33:31,721 --> 00:33:32,721
Yeah.
728
00:33:33,101 --> 00:33:36,592
Yeah, nobody likes to follow a rule just
because it's the rule,
729
00:33:36,592 --> 00:33:39,663
even though it's obviously not applying to
the situation.
730
00:33:39,663 --> 00:33:42,554
And when we hired people, and on their
first day we'd say,
731
00:33:42,554 --> 00:33:45,345
like, I hired you 'cause you're smart and
I like the way that you think,
732
00:33:45,345 --> 00:33:49,286
and we want you to use your brain at work.
733
00:33:49,286 --> 00:33:53,658
Having said that, here's what we've found
is most of the time the best
734
00:33:53,658 --> 00:33:55,448
way to do things, so we'd like you to
learn this.
735
00:33:55,448 --> 00:33:56,448
And
736
00:33:56,102 --> 00:33:59,714
You know, if you run into a situation
where following the SOP is
737
00:33:59,714 --> 00:34:01,915
not in the customer's best interest,
738
00:34:01,915 --> 00:34:04,276
all I want you to do is ask yourself,
739
00:34:04,276 --> 00:34:05,777
is it is it the right thing to do?
740
00:34:05,777 --> 00:34:08,328
Is it legal? Is it gonna serve the
customer?
741
00:34:08,328 --> 00:34:10,779
And are you willing to take accountability
for it?
742
00:34:10,779 --> 00:34:15,472
And if you are, go ahead. ~ no one's ever
gonna get in trouble with that.
743
00:34:15,472 --> 00:34:19,684
I'll ~ one more fun story. And this this
transformed our company.
744
00:34:19,684 --> 00:34:21,264
So every quarter
745
00:34:22,317 --> 00:34:24,078
We would have a quarterly strategy
planning meeting,
746
00:34:24,078 --> 00:34:25,299
we'd bring in our management team,
747
00:34:25,299 --> 00:34:27,900
and we'd talk about what was the most
important things for us to focus
748
00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:32,344
on this next quarter. But we'd start by
reviewing our core values and our purpose.
749
00:34:32,344 --> 00:34:35,967
And we'd read them aloud and I'd ask for
examples of
750
00:34:36,089 --> 00:34:37,228
when we really loved this thing.
751
00:34:37,228 --> 00:34:38,420
Because it's easy to say, like,
752
00:34:38,420 --> 00:34:40,591
yeah, safe supportive in a positive
environment,
753
00:34:40,591 --> 00:34:41,661
like pat ourselves on the back,
754
00:34:41,661 --> 00:34:42,922
like, yeah, this is a great place to work.
755
00:34:42,922 --> 00:34:45,393
But is it really? Like can you think of
real examples where
756
00:34:45,393 --> 00:34:46,511
we actually supported each other?
757
00:34:46,511 --> 00:34:50,425
Can you think of a real example where we
actually spread positivity?
758
00:34:50,425 --> 00:34:52,224
Because if we can't then it's not real.
759
00:34:52,224 --> 00:34:54,306
And then ask the app the opposite.
760
00:34:54,306 --> 00:34:56,147
Is there any time where we fell short?
761
00:34:57,081 --> 00:35:01,435
And we went through this for about fifteen
minutes and everybody was ~ you know,
762
00:35:01,435 --> 00:35:03,077
feeling pretty good and we were about to
move on,
763
00:35:03,077 --> 00:35:06,029
when my office manager raised her hand and
she said,
764
00:35:06,029 --> 00:35:09,883
You know, frontline staff are afraid to
make decisions.
765
00:35:09,883 --> 00:35:11,844
if it's outside of the SOP, they're afraid
to make decisions.
766
00:35:12,681 --> 00:35:15,442
And even if they know what the right
answer is,
767
00:35:15,442 --> 00:35:17,702
they come to me, you know, the office
manager,
768
00:35:17,702 --> 00:35:22,363
and ~ ask for permission. And it's a
violation of all of our core values.
769
00:35:22,363 --> 00:35:24,263
It's a violation of having the courage to
do what's right,
770
00:35:24,263 --> 00:35:25,904
it's a violation of a safe environment.
771
00:35:25,904 --> 00:35:29,265
the other one was a commitment to ~ you
know to excellence.
772
00:35:29,265 --> 00:35:33,637
so right then and there we made a
quarterly goal that for the next three
months
773
00:35:33,637 --> 00:35:36,807
staff is not allowed to ask management for
direction.
774
00:35:36,807 --> 00:35:38,188
That
775
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,144
~ whenever they encounter a customer
challenge,
776
00:35:42,144 --> 00:35:43,725
they just need to solve it right then and
there.
777
00:35:43,725 --> 00:35:47,689
And if they do come to management for for
guidance,
778
00:35:47,689 --> 00:35:50,852
that the answer will be, do what you think
is best,
779
00:35:50,852 --> 00:35:52,814
tell me about it in the next weekly
meeting.
780
00:35:52,814 --> 00:35:54,986
And then a week later, they would say
like,
781
00:35:54,986 --> 00:35:56,758
this thing happened, here's the decision I
made,
782
00:35:56,758 --> 00:35:57,758
like what do think?
783
00:35:57,718 --> 00:35:59,581
And most of the time it would be,
784
00:35:59,581 --> 00:36:03,005
~ fantastic. That's exactly what you
should have done.
785
00:36:03,005 --> 00:36:06,870
Or it would be, ~ not bad, but next time
try this.
786
00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:07,870
Or
787
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:09,553
What a fantastic opportunity for learning.
788
00:36:09,553 --> 00:36:11,555
This is what we're gonna be doing next
time this happens.
789
00:36:11,555 --> 00:36:13,308
But it's a relatively small stakes things,
790
00:36:13,308 --> 00:36:15,961
but again it transformed our company
because it made people understand that
791
00:36:15,961 --> 00:36:18,785
we actually trusted them, that we gave
them the tools,
792
00:36:18,785 --> 00:36:21,809
that we believe that they have a you know,
793
00:36:21,809 --> 00:36:22,840
a good head on their shoulders,
794
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:23,840
that's why we hired them.
795
00:36:24,552 --> 00:36:26,613
And they have the agency to make
decisions.
796
00:36:26,613 --> 00:36:31,112
And it freed up hours and hours of
management time 'cause I mean,
797
00:36:31,112 --> 00:36:35,157
managers don't like to answer s questions
that their staff know the answers to.
798
00:36:35,157 --> 00:36:36,718
You know, it takes them away from,
799
00:36:36,718 --> 00:36:38,459
you know, the the value that they really
add.
800
00:36:38,459 --> 00:36:43,281
And it just it gave people agency on
autonomy and ~ just the sense that
801
00:36:43,281 --> 00:36:46,076
we trusted that they w knew what they were
talking about and that they were good
802
00:36:46,076 --> 00:36:47,076
at their jobs.
803
00:36:46,603 --> 00:36:49,196
Yeah. It sounds like a fantastic place to
work.
804
00:36:50,005 --> 00:36:51,566
We're a values-based company. You know,
805
00:36:51,566 --> 00:36:56,460
the nobody needs guidance on whether it's
better to make a thousand dollars
806
00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:58,842
or a hundred dollars. Like everybody knows
the answer to that question.
807
00:36:58,842 --> 00:37:02,646
Nobody needs guidance on is it better to
get a hug or to burn your fingers.
808
00:37:02,646 --> 00:37:04,708
Like everybody knows how to answer those
questions.
809
00:37:04,708 --> 00:37:05,849
But
810
00:37:06,821 --> 00:37:08,604
You know, just using that example I used
earlier,
811
00:37:08,604 --> 00:37:13,624
UPS lost the package. Like should we lose
money on that order or break even
812
00:37:13,624 --> 00:37:15,597
to pay for to ship it overnight?
813
00:37:15,597 --> 00:37:18,863
It wasn't our fault. But should we still
spend that extra hundred dollars?
814
00:37:19,715 --> 00:37:22,648
Or should we say like, yeah, that sucks
for you,
815
00:37:22,648 --> 00:37:24,620
retailer, you know, that they lost a
package,
816
00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:27,253
we'll send it out in a couple days and
you'll get it a week later.
817
00:37:27,253 --> 00:37:31,597
It's a values based decision. It's not an
analytical logical decision.
818
00:37:31,597 --> 00:37:35,541
And the only way to get your staff to make
the same decisions that you would
819
00:37:35,865 --> 00:37:37,563
is if they know what your values are,
820
00:37:37,563 --> 00:37:42,408
and that you train on your values and you
reward people for living your values.
821
00:37:42,408 --> 00:37:44,279
Good stuff. There's a lot of wisdom there.
822
00:37:44,279 --> 00:37:48,805
you admittedly said you had very little
business knowledge,
823
00:37:48,805 --> 00:37:51,036
business experience starting your company.
824
00:37:51,036 --> 00:37:52,036
~
825
00:37:51,177 --> 00:37:52,177
Yeah.
826
00:37:52,067 --> 00:37:55,809
I think ~ that maybe is one of the keys to
the success you found
827
00:37:55,809 --> 00:38:00,072
was finding your own way to do it in this
values based business and valuing people.
828
00:38:00,072 --> 00:38:01,193
I noticed when
829
00:38:01,193 --> 00:38:05,284
When you were describing starting your
business and kind of the products you
made,
830
00:38:05,284 --> 00:38:09,658
you lit up, you got excited, you used the
word imagination quite
831
00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:10,316
Yeah.
832
00:38:09,658 --> 00:38:15,863
a few times. And so w what part of your
company's success
833
00:38:15,863 --> 00:38:22,598
do you think came from understanding
emotions and imagination rather than
834
00:38:22,598 --> 00:38:24,910
understanding retail and business?
835
00:38:25,807 --> 00:38:29,699
Yeah. So and I think this is just a
general truth.
836
00:38:29,699 --> 00:38:33,359
If you start your business just trying to
figure out how can I make a buck,
837
00:38:33,359 --> 00:38:34,920
there's nothing inspiring about that.
838
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:36,620
And no one's gonna want to follow you.
839
00:38:36,620 --> 00:38:39,661
You can't have as an overarching company
goal
840
00:38:40,255 --> 00:38:42,876
I want to make a million dollars and
retire by the time I'm 40.
841
00:38:42,876 --> 00:38:44,266
Like no nobody's gonna follow you.
842
00:38:44,266 --> 00:38:46,245
You know, nobody's gonna say, like,
843
00:38:46,245 --> 00:38:49,718
that's what I want too. I want you to be
able to make a million dollars
844
00:38:49,686 --> 00:38:50,686
Ha ha ha.
845
00:38:49,718 --> 00:38:50,718
and retire by the time you're
846
00:38:50,718 --> 00:38:52,649
forty, Erick. Like, I want to devote my
life to that.
847
00:38:52,649 --> 00:38:58,081
It's just it's not inspiring. But when you
know what you care about,
848
00:38:58,081 --> 00:38:59,271
when you know what lights you up,
849
00:38:59,271 --> 00:39:00,952
when you know what makes you special,
850
00:39:00,952 --> 00:39:04,493
and then you follow that, like everybody
loves that.
851
00:39:05,277 --> 00:39:07,508
not everybody of course, but ~ you know,
852
00:39:07,508 --> 00:39:11,160
we wanted to make our customers happy.
853
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,662
Like we and in in every sense,
854
00:39:13,662 --> 00:39:15,243
the professional buyers who we worked
with,
855
00:39:15,243 --> 00:39:18,745
they want we wanted them to hang up the
phone thinking like,
856
00:39:18,745 --> 00:39:20,326
you know, that was the best call I had all
day.
857
00:39:20,326 --> 00:39:21,997
Like those guys, they were fun,
858
00:39:21,997 --> 00:39:25,449
they were ~ you know, they were competent
they they were they were excellent
859
00:39:25,449 --> 00:39:27,370
at what they do, they made me smile.
860
00:39:27,370 --> 00:39:29,712
The parents who bought our products
861
00:39:30,132 --> 00:39:36,514
We wanted them to see their kids light up
and play with their e-boots
862
00:39:36,614 --> 00:39:40,736
and their umbrellas or whatever it is and
just be excited that they were doing
863
00:39:40,736 --> 00:39:44,217
something really fun and joyful for their
kids and then of course
864
00:39:44,217 --> 00:39:46,358
for the children who were the real users
of our products.
865
00:39:46,358 --> 00:39:49,909
We wanted to excite their imaginations for
it to become an every part
866
00:39:49,909 --> 00:39:50,909
of their everyday play.
867
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:53,382
And every decision that we made about new
products,
868
00:39:53,382 --> 00:39:56,824
it I mean, yes, we wanted to we wanted to
sell.
869
00:39:56,824 --> 00:40:00,397
Yes, we wanted it to be at a reasonable
price point and all that sort of stuff.
870
00:40:00,397 --> 00:40:01,938
And you know, those are table stakes.
871
00:40:01,938 --> 00:40:05,170
Like you can't run a business if it
doesn't you know meet those criteria.
872
00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:09,192
But we just didn't develop products that
didn't excite imaginations
873
00:40:09,192 --> 00:40:12,274
and become a part of everyday play for a
very practical,
874
00:40:12,274 --> 00:40:13,955
essential product that everybody needs.
875
00:40:13,955 --> 00:40:16,236
Those were the only products that we would
create.
876
00:40:16,524 --> 00:40:20,687
And when people came to us, that's what
they were looking for.
877
00:40:20,687 --> 00:40:23,229
You know, could we have sold beanie
babies?
878
00:40:23,229 --> 00:40:26,622
Probably. You know, could we have ~ you
know,
879
00:40:26,622 --> 00:40:30,345
just made a plain rain boot that was ~ you
know,
880
00:40:30,345 --> 00:40:34,859
perfectly utilitarian? Sure. But nobody's
looking for us for that.
881
00:40:34,859 --> 00:40:37,701
They were looking for fun, practically
unique children's accessories.
882
00:40:37,701 --> 00:40:40,303
I'm the only one who would use those words
'cause it's kind of a mouthful.
883
00:40:40,303 --> 00:40:42,955
But they knew it, they saw it in our
catalogue,
884
00:40:42,955 --> 00:40:44,006
that's what they expected from us,
885
00:40:44,006 --> 00:40:45,227
and that's what we added to their stores.
886
00:40:45,508 --> 00:40:50,152
that's fun. So what advice would you have
for a business owner that
887
00:40:50,332 --> 00:40:53,315
has lost their way there, that is kind of
stuck in
888
00:40:52,929 --> 00:40:53,929
Yeah.
889
00:40:53,315 --> 00:40:55,437
the I'm I'm here to make money,
890
00:40:55,437 --> 00:40:58,770
I'm pushing to retirement and has lost
that inspiration,
891
00:40:58,770 --> 00:41:01,322
that excitement. How do you come back from
that?
892
00:41:01,322 --> 00:41:03,074
Well so first I want say it's very common.
893
00:41:03,074 --> 00:41:07,198
It's extremely common that either we
stumbled into a business
894
00:41:07,238 --> 00:41:11,822
I certainly stumbled into my business or ~
we did start with a mission.
895
00:41:12,518 --> 00:41:16,631
But then, you know, just things happen and
you know your major customer says,
896
00:41:16,631 --> 00:41:18,192
Hey, can you do that? And you're Yeah,
897
00:41:18,192 --> 00:41:21,034
we could do that. And just the cut the the
company becomes something that
898
00:41:21,504 --> 00:41:26,437
is unrecognizable. And the goals that
drove you to get where you are right now,
899
00:41:26,437 --> 00:41:27,668
they just no longer excite you.
900
00:41:27,668 --> 00:41:31,874
And maybe they don't excite you because
you're losing money or it's just
901
00:41:31,951 --> 00:41:35,433
you know it's frustrating. Maybe the
business is very successful,
902
00:41:35,433 --> 00:41:36,954
but just your heart's not in it anymore.
903
00:41:36,954 --> 00:41:38,856
And my answer to all those people
904
00:41:39,250 --> 00:41:42,102
who are in that situation, is there's
still an ember.
905
00:41:42,102 --> 00:41:44,083
There's still a spark alive in you,
906
00:41:44,083 --> 00:41:48,466
and it doesn't take that much to reawaken
it.
907
00:41:48,466 --> 00:41:51,957
And your purpose, your why. well let me
back up for a second.
908
00:41:51,957 --> 00:41:54,290
What it what does it mean for your coming
to have a mission?
909
00:41:54,290 --> 00:41:56,431
What does it mean for your coming to have
a purpose?
910
00:41:56,431 --> 00:42:00,143
Your purpose is how you feel compelled to
contribute to the world because that's
911
00:42:00,143 --> 00:42:01,143
who you are.
912
00:42:00,674 --> 00:42:03,816
The intersection of that with the impact
that you seek.
913
00:42:03,816 --> 00:42:06,417
That just makes everything feel the way it
should be.
914
00:42:06,417 --> 00:42:10,569
You might love what you do. You might be
great at it and you might make
915
00:42:10,569 --> 00:42:14,082
a lot of money. But if it's not in
alignment with your purpose,
916
00:42:14,082 --> 00:42:15,783
it just feels empty. In contrast,
917
00:42:15,783 --> 00:42:18,503
when you're doing what you feel you were
born for,
918
00:42:18,503 --> 00:42:20,725
you just wake up every morning and you're
like,
919
00:42:20,725 --> 00:42:22,746
yeah, this is what life's all about.
920
00:42:22,746 --> 00:42:23,967
I get to do it all over again.
921
00:42:23,967 --> 00:42:26,228
And the shift, and it doesn't mean you
have to start a new business,
922
00:42:26,228 --> 00:42:27,741
doesn't mean you have to start over
anything like that.
923
00:42:27,741 --> 00:42:31,865
The shift is just to get really clear
about ~ why you do this.
924
00:42:31,865 --> 00:42:33,887
And your why is hidden in your stories.
925
00:42:33,887 --> 00:42:37,391
The way to find your why is just to ask,
926
00:42:37,391 --> 00:42:40,473
when I started this business, like what
was I trying to accomplish?
927
00:42:40,897 --> 00:42:46,251
You I I I I had a client who ~ ran a small
chain of Tex Mex ~ TexMex
928
00:42:46,251 --> 00:42:49,214
Tex Mex restaurants. there's a million in
te in Austin,
929
00:42:49,214 --> 00:42:51,936
Texas. There's a million Tex-Mex
restaurants in Austin,
930
00:42:51,936 --> 00:42:54,148
Texas. But why did this one have to exist?
931
00:42:54,148 --> 00:42:58,532
That's the question. And the people who
founded the business,
932
00:42:58,532 --> 00:43:00,013
like what were they trying to accomplish?
933
00:43:00,013 --> 00:43:02,055
Everyone who works in the business,
934
00:43:02,055 --> 00:43:06,388
whether it's a bartender or a server or a
bus boy or you know,
935
00:43:06,388 --> 00:43:07,679
and someone in the kitchen or anything
else
936
00:43:07,679 --> 00:43:08,980
Think about your memories at work.
937
00:43:08,980 --> 00:43:13,534
The ones that have emotional high points
that you just thought,
938
00:43:13,534 --> 00:43:15,305
you know what, that was a really great
day.
939
00:43:15,305 --> 00:43:18,087
I felt so good about that. Or the
opposite.
940
00:43:18,087 --> 00:43:21,130
Like, ~ I never want to experience a day
like this again.
941
00:43:21,130 --> 00:43:22,511
That was a terrible, terrible day.
942
00:43:22,511 --> 00:43:25,554
The ones that light us up,
943
00:43:25,554 --> 00:43:27,635
it's because they resonate with our
purpose.
944
00:43:27,635 --> 00:43:30,488
The ones that ~
945
00:43:29,595 --> 00:43:30,595
Mm.
946
00:43:30,488 --> 00:43:33,971
really frustrate us, they were a violation
of our purpose.
947
00:43:33,971 --> 00:43:34,971
What was the opposite of that?
948
00:43:35,514 --> 00:43:36,864
And if you tell enough of these stories,
949
00:43:36,864 --> 00:43:38,927
you know, five, ten, twelve of these
stories,
950
00:43:38,927 --> 00:43:40,578
and you start looking for the themes,
951
00:43:40,578 --> 00:43:42,981
things will start to come out.
952
00:43:42,981 --> 00:43:46,203
that you look at the themes, the ones that
keep repeating,
953
00:43:46,203 --> 00:43:48,075
the ones that make you cry out,
954
00:43:48,075 --> 00:43:51,356
yes, that's who we are. And then you write
a purpose statement around it.
955
00:43:51,356 --> 00:43:54,048
In my old company, Kidorable. the
company's purpose,
956
00:43:54,048 --> 00:43:58,252
very unusual, was that the company was a
vehicle for personal
957
00:43:58,252 --> 00:44:00,273
and professional growth for everyone who
worked with us.
958
00:44:01,162 --> 00:44:02,162
And that's everything we did. Like,
959
00:44:02,123 --> 00:44:03,123
you know,
960
00:44:02,284 --> 00:44:03,284
Mm.
961
00:44:02,363 --> 00:44:03,363
I we had
962
00:44:02,583 --> 00:44:05,726
a fifteen minute daily training meeting
for our office.
963
00:44:05,726 --> 00:44:07,127
We had a weekly sales training meeting.
964
00:44:07,127 --> 00:44:09,883
We had you know, I had we topped out at
twenty eight employees.
965
00:44:09,883 --> 00:44:13,245
I had two hour quarterly reviews with
every single staff member,
966
00:44:13,245 --> 00:44:17,579
helping them use the company as a vehicle
for personal and professional growth,
967
00:44:17,579 --> 00:44:18,730
inside and outside the company,
968
00:44:18,730 --> 00:44:21,312
to ~ you know, to to achieve their goals.
969
00:44:21,312 --> 00:44:22,834
Like that's what animated us.
970
00:44:23,674 --> 00:44:26,536
For another company, it would have taken a
superhuman effort to
971
00:44:26,536 --> 00:44:30,199
do all that training. For us, it was it
was just like breathing,
972
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:32,301
because it's what animates us.
973
00:44:32,301 --> 00:44:35,183
And was it a good investment? You know,
974
00:44:35,183 --> 00:44:37,935
I don't know if I would have started a
business telling everyone who's listening
975
00:44:37,935 --> 00:44:41,058
that, yeah, you have to do two hours of
trading a day if you want to succeed.
976
00:44:41,058 --> 00:44:44,040
No, probably not. But would you invest in
your people?
977
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,093
Well then you grow your people and your
people grow your business.
978
00:44:47,093 --> 00:44:48,693
So if what is it for you? You know,
979
00:44:48,078 --> 00:44:49,078
man. Good.
980
00:44:48,774 --> 00:44:50,854
find your purpose and then double down on
that.
981
00:44:50,854 --> 00:44:52,975
Design your culture, design your products,
982
00:44:52,975 --> 00:44:58,418
design your processes to be further
aligned to grow your purpose.
983
00:44:58,418 --> 00:45:03,720
And ~ it's a it's a very reliable path to
growing your business.
984
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:06,301
In a way that's fun and that lights you
up.
985
00:45:05,650 --> 00:45:06,650
There is
986
00:45:07,251 --> 00:45:08,941
there's a lot of wisdom there.
987
00:45:08,941 --> 00:45:11,502
I hope ~ our listeners are listening
closely.
988
00:45:11,502 --> 00:45:17,244
I know a a couple weeks ago we had a guest
on that was an inventor and
989
00:45:17,244 --> 00:45:22,855
~ wound up in some pretty ~ heated legal
battles about patents and
990
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,670
Hm. Yeah, I've been there? Yeah.
991
00:45:22,855 --> 00:45:25,696
~ knockoffs and copycats. I I
992
00:45:25,696 --> 00:45:30,697
can imagine that you've probably faced the
same thing being kind of shaking
993
00:45:30,697 --> 00:45:33,208
up this industry, bringing a new product
to market.
994
00:45:33,542 --> 00:45:35,884
~ but one that is probably easily copied.
995
00:45:35,884 --> 00:45:36,884
w
996
00:45:35,944 --> 00:45:36,944
Yeah.
997
00:45:36,306 --> 00:45:39,348
what role did that play in the growth of
your business?
998
00:45:39,348 --> 00:45:42,880
How did you handle that? What advice would
you have for somebody facing similar
999
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:43,880
difficulties?
1000
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,071
Yeah, it was a real challenge.
1001
00:45:46,071 --> 00:45:49,213
You know, between we founded our company
in nineteen ninety seven.
1002
00:45:49,213 --> 00:45:51,455
And between two thousand and one and two
thousand and six,
1003
00:45:51,455 --> 00:45:54,837
we spent half a million dollars in legal
bills,
1004
00:45:54,837 --> 00:45:56,918
for intellectual property protection.
1005
00:45:56,918 --> 00:46:00,781
It was all defensive. ~ people would knock
off our products.
1006
00:46:00,781 --> 00:46:02,962
And especially when you're the artist,
1007
00:46:02,962 --> 00:46:04,564
when you're creating something
1008
00:46:04,748 --> 00:46:07,549
It just it hurts to know that you spend
all this time,
1009
00:46:07,549 --> 00:46:11,791
you know, creating this thing and then
someone else just goes off and copies it.
1010
00:46:11,791 --> 00:46:13,892
And there are some legal protections,
1011
00:46:13,892 --> 00:46:18,284
you know, copyright design patents or you
know product utility patents,
1012
00:46:18,284 --> 00:46:20,374
stuff like that. But they're all
expensive,
1013
00:46:20,374 --> 00:46:23,036
they're all slow, and I can tell anyone
who's listening,
1014
00:46:23,036 --> 00:46:27,837
the law is a very blunt tool to to do
these things.
1015
00:46:27,837 --> 00:46:29,992
We felt it was necessary at the time,
1016
00:46:29,992 --> 00:46:31,979
it was took so much out of us.
1017
00:46:32,721 --> 00:46:35,893
Toward you know, by the end, my ~ you
know,
1018
00:46:35,893 --> 00:46:40,167
my my my lawyer told me that ~ I've had a
very expensive legal education,
1019
00:46:40,167 --> 00:46:41,798
that it cost me half a million dollars.
1020
00:46:41,798 --> 00:46:44,090
He you know it cost him only a couple
hundred thousand dollars to learn
1021
00:46:44,090 --> 00:46:45,741
all this stuff about intellectual property
law.
1022
00:46:45,741 --> 00:46:50,364
But ~ a great outcome would be that we
would sue someone,
1023
00:46:50,364 --> 00:46:54,007
we'd get them to stop, and we'd only lose
a little bit of money.
1024
00:46:54,301 --> 00:46:56,733
We had a couple wins where we,
1025
00:46:56,733 --> 00:46:59,144
you know, got more money than you know,
1026
00:46:59,144 --> 00:47:00,735
than we lost. I mean, we sued Disney,
1027
00:47:00,735 --> 00:47:02,967
we sued all sorts of people who would ~
you know,
1028
00:47:02,967 --> 00:47:07,319
who who would knock us off. But almost
always it was just stressful
1029
00:47:07,319 --> 00:47:10,982
and a distraction from ~ the real work
that we needed to do.
1030
00:47:10,982 --> 00:47:13,043
And at best we broke even.
1031
00:47:13,291 --> 00:47:16,555
And at the end of the day they were just
able to tweak the designs and
1032
00:47:16,555 --> 00:47:17,976
you know it wasn't exactly the same,
1033
00:47:17,976 --> 00:47:21,030
but it was you know, pretty close and a
lot of customers couldn't tell
1034
00:47:21,030 --> 00:47:23,336
the difference anyway. If I had to do it
all over again,
1035
00:47:23,336 --> 00:47:24,925
I don't think it would have sued anybody.
1036
00:47:24,925 --> 00:47:28,207
I would have just spent all that time and
money investing in
1037
00:47:28,209 --> 00:47:29,490
out innovating our competition.
1038
00:47:29,490 --> 00:47:30,490
Okay.
1039
00:47:29,610 --> 00:47:30,610
'Cause we're creative
1040
00:47:30,121 --> 00:47:32,217
people. Like we like to we like to
innovate.
1041
00:47:32,217 --> 00:47:34,362
And all these things are a distraction.
1042
00:47:34,362 --> 00:47:36,207
They just take time away from doing what
we do best.
1043
00:47:36,207 --> 00:47:38,393
The reason why why people wanted to copy
us in the first place.
1044
00:47:39,135 --> 00:47:41,849
Yeah. If everybody's copying you by
definition,
1045
00:47:41,849 --> 00:47:43,241
they're always one step behind.
1046
00:47:43,241 --> 00:47:44,241
So
1047
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:44,720
Yeah. Yeah, but this
1048
00:47:44,712 --> 00:47:47,801
slowed us down so it was e easier for to
get a little bit closer.
1049
00:47:48,575 --> 00:47:49,575
Yeah.
1050
00:47:50,139 --> 00:47:53,071
i you grew this company pretty
substantially.
1051
00:47:53,071 --> 00:47:55,426
you started bootstrapping it with you
know,
1052
00:47:55,426 --> 00:47:58,354
living on almost nothing and grew it to be
1053
00:47:57,912 --> 00:47:58,912
Yeah.
1054
00:47:58,354 --> 00:48:00,430
quite a successful company w
1055
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,252
What was your approach to capital
reinvestment?
1056
00:48:03,252 --> 00:48:07,876
What did that look like? And at what point
were you able to finally start reaping
1057
00:48:07,876 --> 00:48:09,868
some of the benefits of the work that
you'd put in?
1058
00:48:10,595 --> 00:48:14,170
Sure. Well say what we did and then I'll
say what I wish we did.
1059
00:48:14,170 --> 00:48:15,519
~
1060
00:48:15,088 --> 00:48:16,088
Ha ha.
1061
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:17,491
So what we did was
1062
00:48:17,531 --> 00:48:21,534
You know, I said that the the purpose of
our company was that the company
1063
00:48:21,534 --> 00:48:24,376
is a vehicle for personal and professional
growth and that we don't really
1064
00:48:24,376 --> 00:48:26,918
owe the company anything. Like the company
is a tool.
1065
00:48:26,918 --> 00:48:29,220
It's a tool for us, it's a tool for the
people we work with,
1066
00:48:29,220 --> 00:48:30,481
it's a tool for the people we serve.
1067
00:48:30,481 --> 00:48:33,884
But for a lot of years, if the company
needed money,
1068
00:48:33,884 --> 00:48:35,745
you know, the company got that money
first.
1069
00:48:35,745 --> 00:48:38,567
And we you know, we would live off the
scraps.
1070
00:48:38,567 --> 00:48:40,688
And you know, it's fine. We we did all
right.
1071
00:48:40,688 --> 00:48:44,611
And you know, in the end, you know it all
worked out just fine.
1072
00:48:44,611 --> 00:48:48,313
But I think we needlessly suffered ~ for
the business.
1073
00:48:48,313 --> 00:48:52,647
But it just wasn't necessary. And I think
if we were a little bit if I
1074
00:48:52,647 --> 00:48:56,239
had a coach like me telling me twenty
years ago that you know,
1075
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,221
hey Jonathan, the purpose of your company
is ~ that it's a vehicle
1076
00:48:59,221 --> 00:49:01,722
for personal and professional growth for
you know,
1077
00:49:01,722 --> 00:49:03,463
for us our customers and everyone who
works with us.
1078
00:49:03,463 --> 00:49:05,235
Is the be is the company serving you?
1079
00:49:05,235 --> 00:49:07,316
Like is this a ride that you want to be
on?
1080
00:49:07,316 --> 00:49:09,758
And especially for the times where we're
losing money,
1081
00:49:09,758 --> 00:49:11,601
we were sacrificing a lot for the company.
1082
00:49:11,601 --> 00:49:15,024
And I think if I'd taken the time to
really answer that question,
1083
00:49:15,024 --> 00:49:18,497
like what does it mean for the company to
be a vehicle for
1084
00:49:18,497 --> 00:49:19,828
my personal and professional growth,
1085
00:49:19,828 --> 00:49:21,088
we would have made some different choices.
1086
00:49:21,763 --> 00:49:24,886
We would have either chosen to grow a
little bit more slowly,
1087
00:49:24,886 --> 00:49:27,898
so we would borrow a little bit less money
and there'd be less stress.
1088
00:49:27,898 --> 00:49:32,161
We would have maybe borrowed more money
because we would have used other people's
1089
00:49:32,161 --> 00:49:35,404
money or you know found an investor or
something instead of you know ploughing
1090
00:49:35,404 --> 00:49:39,047
all of our hard won profit you know back
into the business growth.
1091
00:49:39,047 --> 00:49:40,948
~ or we would have made some harder
choices.
1092
00:49:40,948 --> 00:49:43,580
And ~ you know, when we did have to make
cuts,
1093
00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:45,492
cut a little bit deeper. You know,
1094
00:49:45,492 --> 00:49:47,403
I have a great friend who
1095
00:49:47,879 --> 00:49:49,420
Yeah, we've known each other for twenty
five years.
1096
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:52,764
And of course we've had the same ups and
downs with the economy.
1097
00:49:52,764 --> 00:49:57,519
But ~ I remember when the when the Great
Recession happened,
1098
00:49:57,519 --> 00:49:59,130
we l we lost money for a long time.
1099
00:49:59,130 --> 00:50:01,743
And he just told me, I'm not losing money.
1100
00:50:01,743 --> 00:50:04,174
And he he cut very aggressively.
1101
00:50:04,548 --> 00:50:07,018
~ people, leases, you know, just you know,
1102
00:50:07,018 --> 00:50:09,320
just trying to lower his lower his costs.
1103
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,802
And again, he had a different different
set of values and all that sort of stuff.
1104
00:50:12,802 --> 00:50:15,834
But you know, I don't think there was ever
more than three months where
1105
00:50:15,834 --> 00:50:17,785
he lost money, even during very difficult
times,
1106
00:50:17,785 --> 00:50:20,366
because he just made clear headed tough
decisions.
1107
00:50:20,366 --> 00:50:24,468
And he's since grown and ~ you know been
able to hire all those people back
1108
00:50:24,468 --> 00:50:27,530
and and more. it's not obvious to me that
it's the kind decision.
1109
00:50:27,918 --> 00:50:33,401
to for the entrepreneur to suffer and for
to you know lug the zombie along
1110
00:50:33,401 --> 00:50:35,452
f until you know until things turn around.
1111
00:50:35,452 --> 00:50:37,677
Sometimes it's kinder just to make a clean
cut.
1112
00:50:37,677 --> 00:50:42,797
Hm. Well, I appreciate that perspective
and that honesty and ~ I that's
1113
00:50:42,797 --> 00:50:46,034
a lesson I think a lot of entrepreneurs
need to hear and and you get
1114
00:50:46,034 --> 00:50:47,597
to express that from the other side.
1115
00:50:47,597 --> 00:50:48,597
So thank you.
1116
00:50:48,594 --> 00:50:52,768
It's no fun to it's no fun to fire people
and certainly no one should ever
1117
00:50:52,422 --> 00:50:53,422
No.
1118
00:50:52,768 --> 00:50:57,232
take any joy in it. But when you're
propping up a zombie,
1119
00:50:57,232 --> 00:50:59,364
like it just needs to die. And it's not
1120
00:50:58,854 --> 00:50:59,854
Mm-hmm.
1121
00:50:59,364 --> 00:51:04,240
doing anyone any favors. Pain that is
prolonged is pain that's multiplied.
1122
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,240
Mm.
1123
00:51:04,554 --> 00:51:05,626
Yeah, that's good.
1124
00:51:05,626 --> 00:51:08,138
every time you walk across you know you
walk down your main street
1125
00:51:08,378 --> 00:51:11,140
and you see that's a s and you see a store
that's closed.
1126
00:51:11,140 --> 00:51:12,981
That's the death of somebody's dream.
1127
00:51:12,981 --> 00:51:14,623
And it's sad.
1128
00:51:13,831 --> 00:51:14,831
Mm-hmm.
1129
00:51:14,623 --> 00:51:17,544
And almost every time I bet you they
should have closed six months earlier.
1130
00:51:17,544 --> 00:51:19,390
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
1131
00:51:19,219 --> 00:51:20,219
You don't
1132
00:51:19,490 --> 00:51:22,269
have to fly the plane into the mountain to
1133
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:22,640
Yeah.
1134
00:51:22,471 --> 00:51:25,822
you know like tha that's that's not a
that's not a preferred exit strategy.
1135
00:51:26,492 --> 00:51:30,392
No. No. So I know you said you started the
company,
1136
00:51:30,392 --> 00:51:33,233
you and your wife wanted to spend all your
time together,
1137
00:51:33,233 --> 00:51:35,634
do something together. ~ but
1138
00:51:35,071 --> 00:51:36,071
Yeah.
1139
00:51:35,874 --> 00:51:38,655
~ entrepreneurship is not an easy path.
1140
00:51:38,655 --> 00:51:40,955
It takes a lot of time, a lot of energy,
1141
00:51:40,955 --> 00:51:44,816
a lot of effort. ~ I heard it said
entrepreneurs are the only people
1142
00:51:44,816 --> 00:51:47,817
on earth that will work eighty hours to
avoid working forty.
1143
00:51:47,817 --> 00:51:49,518
~ it
1144
00:51:48,510 --> 00:51:49,630
Yeah. Yeah.
1145
00:51:49,878 --> 00:51:51,398
how did that plan work for you?
1146
00:51:51,398 --> 00:51:53,739
Were you able to spend the time you wanted
with your wife?
1147
00:51:54,433 --> 00:51:55,433
was this something
1148
00:51:54,633 --> 00:51:55,633
Yeah.
1149
00:51:55,107 --> 00:51:57,724
you guys could do together? W what did
that look like?
1150
00:51:57,724 --> 00:52:02,035
So the first two years we were in business
we were working eighty hour weeks
1151
00:52:02,836 --> 00:52:07,368
and we would take half an afternoon off
once a month in order to in order
1152
00:52:07,368 --> 00:52:09,929
to build this thing. And and then we
started hiring our first employees
1153
00:52:09,929 --> 00:52:13,641
and and and then you know, the promise of
all that hard work you know,
1154
00:52:13,641 --> 00:52:17,163
paid off. But ~ there were two things that
we didn't expect that I
1155
00:52:17,959 --> 00:52:19,681
That on the one hand I wish people had
told us,
1156
00:52:19,681 --> 00:52:22,264
and on the other people told us I probably
wouldn't have listened to.
1157
00:52:22,264 --> 00:52:23,645
But nonetheless,
1158
00:52:23,165 --> 00:52:24,165
Ha ha.
1159
00:52:23,865 --> 00:52:27,649
~ here is the advice that I would say
anyone who chooses to work with their
spouse.
1160
00:52:27,649 --> 00:52:29,130
You don't have a business life and a work
life,
1161
00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:31,786
you just have a life. And especially as
entrepreneurs,
1162
00:52:31,786 --> 00:52:33,769
our work is so central to our identity.
1163
00:52:33,769 --> 00:52:37,175
like it's our company and we take it
personally.
1164
00:52:37,820 --> 00:52:40,242
You know, someone quits, like they didn't
just leave the company,
1165
00:52:40,242 --> 00:52:42,633
like they left us. You know, like it's if
you get a
1166
00:52:42,199 --> 00:52:43,199
Yeah.
1167
00:52:42,633 --> 00:52:45,170
loan to you know, to to build a business,
1168
00:52:45,170 --> 00:52:47,132
like you have to sign your house for it.
1169
00:52:47,132 --> 00:52:49,634
Like the bank will take your house if you
can't pay that loan.
1170
00:52:49,634 --> 00:52:52,957
That's just what you should expect when
you get a business loan as an
entrepreneur.
1171
00:52:52,957 --> 00:52:58,420
So there's it's really hard to separate
your business life
1172
00:52:58,741 --> 00:53:01,242
and your personal life. The stakes matter.
1173
00:53:01,242 --> 00:53:02,242
And
1174
00:53:02,587 --> 00:53:04,868
You know, for you know, my wife and
partner in the business,
1175
00:53:04,868 --> 00:53:08,400
she's just she's so smart. We used to we
we used to joke that she went
1176
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,291
to good at everything school. She was just
just naturally like I
1177
00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:13,272
had to learn everything, she was just
naturally good at everything.
1178
00:53:13,272 --> 00:53:17,335
But the first couple of years we hadn't
learned to have boundaries.
1179
00:53:17,335 --> 00:53:19,437
And I would do something and, you know,
1180
00:53:19,437 --> 00:53:21,849
we'd be working side by side, literally at
the same table,
1181
00:53:21,849 --> 00:53:23,850
and it was awesome because we got to be
together the whole time.
1182
00:53:23,850 --> 00:53:25,672
But she'd be looking over at what I was
doing and she's like,
1183
00:53:25,672 --> 00:53:27,873
Why are doing that? And I'd say,
1184
00:53:27,873 --> 00:53:30,465
Well, like I'm doing this for whatever and
she's we shouldn't be doing that.
1185
00:53:30,465 --> 00:53:31,465
We should be doing this thing,
1186
00:53:31,336 --> 00:53:33,648
or like, why did you spend two hundred
dollars on that?
1187
00:53:33,648 --> 00:53:36,400
And we'd have this I mean, fight's too big
a word,
1188
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,242
but we we'd have this disagreement about
like whether it made sense
1189
00:53:39,242 --> 00:53:42,054
to spend this fifty dollars on this thing
or two hundred dollars on this thing.
1190
00:53:42,310 --> 00:53:45,953
And we were just squabbling a lot and it
just it wasn't fun anymore.
1191
00:53:45,953 --> 00:53:49,387
Like it was great that we were able to
spend all this time together and that
1192
00:53:49,387 --> 00:53:52,299
we had not time abundance, but time
freedom,
1193
00:53:52,299 --> 00:53:56,994
you know, and how we were able to ~ you
know how we were able to organize our
time.
1194
00:53:56,994 --> 00:54:01,297
But it just seemed like we had less and
less time for each other and we
1195
00:54:01,598 --> 00:54:05,521
had more and more squabbling about just
things that didn't matter.
1196
00:54:06,328 --> 00:54:08,289
And after a couple years, we're like,
1197
00:54:08,289 --> 00:54:10,501
this is ridiculous. We need some
boundaries.
1198
00:54:10,501 --> 00:54:14,793
And the first boundary that we agreed to
is she is her area of responsibility,
1199
00:54:14,793 --> 00:54:17,905
and I have mine. And we should share,
1200
00:54:17,905 --> 00:54:20,096
you know, information about what we're
doing.
1201
00:54:20,096 --> 00:54:23,068
And if I have an idea that can make her
work better,
1202
00:54:23,068 --> 00:54:24,849
awesome, I should share it, and vice
versa.
1203
00:54:24,849 --> 00:54:26,930
But at the end of the day, if it's her
area responsibility,
1204
00:54:26,930 --> 00:54:28,121
it doesn't matter how much I disagree,
1205
00:54:28,121 --> 00:54:29,121
she makes the call.
1206
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:31,341
And if she doesn't like something I'm
working on,
1207
00:54:31,341 --> 00:54:33,842
if it's my responsibility, doesn't matter
how much she doesn't like it,
1208
00:54:33,842 --> 00:54:37,354
she makes the call. And we don't even talk
about anything less than five hundred
1209
00:54:37,354 --> 00:54:39,925
dollars. And that got rid of ninety
percent of our conflicts.
1210
00:54:39,925 --> 00:54:42,146
And then we were able to enjoy working
together
1211
00:54:41,074 --> 00:54:42,074
Yeah.
1212
00:54:42,146 --> 00:54:44,172
again. yeah, the the the key is just
boundaries.
1213
00:54:44,172 --> 00:54:46,233
boundaries and time. You know,
1214
00:54:46,233 --> 00:54:49,665
if you're having dinner, don't talk about
your kids and just talk don't talk about
1215
00:54:49,665 --> 00:54:51,776
your business. You know, just enjoy time
together,
1216
00:54:51,776 --> 00:54:53,687
go on a weekly date night, whatever it is.
1217
00:54:54,255 --> 00:54:56,018
The the business could consume your life,
1218
00:54:56,018 --> 00:54:58,572
don't let it. And it's as simple as just
saying,
1219
00:54:58,572 --> 00:55:00,415
Here's hours where we just don't talk
about business.
1220
00:55:00,415 --> 00:55:03,922
Here's things that I just defer to you and
you defer to me.
1221
00:55:03,922 --> 00:55:07,247
Here's things that we just never talk at
all because it's just not worth it.
1222
00:55:08,573 --> 00:55:13,943
Hm. man. Good advice there. W was there
something that significantly delayed
1223
00:55:13,943 --> 00:55:16,316
the growth of your business? And if so,
1224
00:55:16,316 --> 00:55:17,637
what would you do differently?
1225
00:55:17,637 --> 00:55:19,248
Yeah, it's the one that I already talked
about.
1226
00:55:19,248 --> 00:55:23,822
We we we protected our retailers from the
world ~ for two
1227
00:55:22,633 --> 00:55:23,730
Hm. Yeah.
1228
00:55:23,822 --> 00:55:24,822
years longer than we should have.
1229
00:55:24,803 --> 00:55:30,407
we launched our first direct to consumer
retail site in two thousand and nine,
1230
00:55:30,407 --> 00:55:31,849
should've done it in two thousand and
seven.
1231
00:55:31,849 --> 00:55:38,094
We dil we avoided selling to Amazon and
other ~ you know major retailers
1232
00:55:38,494 --> 00:55:41,577
a couple of years 'cause we wanted to
protect our ~ small independents.
1233
00:55:41,829 --> 00:55:43,672
And it's happening whether we like it or
not,
1234
00:55:43,672 --> 00:55:44,983
so we may as well like it. In other words,
1235
00:55:44,804 --> 00:55:45,804
man.
1236
00:55:44,983 --> 00:55:45,983
those
1237
00:55:45,124 --> 00:55:46,124
are tough decisions.
1238
00:55:46,090 --> 00:55:49,312
Yeah. is there another lesson that you
wish you would have learned earlier?
1239
00:55:49,312 --> 00:55:51,656
~ so many. So many, Erick. Yeah,
1240
00:55:51,656 --> 00:55:52,967
like I said, I'm a really good learner,
1241
00:55:52,967 --> 00:55:56,431
but I had to learn all these things and
some of these things I learned ~
1242
00:55:56,591 --> 00:55:57,712
I learned a couple years late.
1243
00:55:57,712 --> 00:56:01,795
There's two that I'll share that I wish I
wish I would have learned earlier.
1244
00:56:01,795 --> 00:56:04,376
There's a wonderful book which nobody
needs to read because they'll tell
1245
00:56:04,376 --> 00:56:06,457
you everything you need to know about it
in ~ twenty
1246
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:07,400
Ha ha
1247
00:56:06,457 --> 00:56:07,457
seconds,
1248
00:56:06,807 --> 00:56:08,719
but there's a wonderful book called
Multipliers.
1249
00:56:09,340 --> 00:56:14,513
It it seems like most business books are
either that or you have to read every
word.
1250
00:56:14,513 --> 00:56:18,883
Th i there's not a lot of there's a lot of
books I read that like
1251
00:56:14,993 --> 00:56:19,016
Yeah. Yeah. Most of them are very simple
ideas
1252
00:56:19,016 --> 00:56:22,610
and then they spend the whole book
explaining it and you know illustrating
it.
1253
00:56:21,212 --> 00:56:22,913
Yeah. There there's a lot of
1254
00:56:22,610 --> 00:56:23,610
But
1255
00:56:22,913 --> 00:56:26,886
business books I read that's like all I
needed was the summary on the back cover,
1256
00:56:26,886 --> 00:56:28,878
like that. You covered it. We're good.
1257
00:56:27,207 --> 00:56:29,389
Yeah, yeah. Well this is this is one of
those.
1258
00:56:28,878 --> 00:56:29,878
That's the idea.
1259
00:56:29,389 --> 00:56:31,431
Classic business
1260
00:56:31,431 --> 00:56:32,932
book. Everybody should know it,
1261
00:56:32,932 --> 00:56:34,067
but I'll save you a little
1262
00:56:33,684 --> 00:56:34,684
Mm.
1263
00:56:34,067 --> 00:56:37,176
bit time. ~ it's called Multipliers.
1264
00:56:37,176 --> 00:56:41,119
And in my company, I'm a pretty smart guy
and I like to solve problems.
1265
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:44,402
And people would come to me, or maybe even
they wouldn't come to me,
1266
00:56:44,402 --> 00:56:46,655
I would come to them and I'd see something
they were doing,
1267
00:56:46,655 --> 00:56:49,827
and I'm a smart guy, I'll tell them what I
think is the solution.
1268
00:56:50,604 --> 00:56:52,735
And you know what usually is a pretty good
solution,
1269
00:56:52,735 --> 00:56:58,696
but every time I did that, I was
diminishing the intelligence and the drive
1270
00:56:59,316 --> 00:57:04,418
of my people. Because why should they do
the hard work of solving a problem
1271
00:57:04,898 --> 00:57:06,318
if I'm just gonna tell them what to do
anyway?
1272
00:57:06,318 --> 00:57:10,139
And before I learned how to be an
inspiring manager who actually knew
1273
00:57:10,139 --> 00:57:13,520
how to get more out of people than they
were capable of alone.
1274
00:57:13,982 --> 00:57:17,695
as opposed to getting half of out of
people what they were capable of alone,
1275
00:57:17,695 --> 00:57:19,416
which is what I did earlier in my career.
1276
00:57:19,416 --> 00:57:22,719
I just learned to take a step back.
1277
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:26,082
You know, when when I I told you when we
were developing our
1278
00:57:26,082 --> 00:57:27,704
~ customer service training manual,
1279
00:57:27,704 --> 00:57:33,768
I just I'd learned around that time just I
always speak last
1280
00:57:34,269 --> 00:57:35,810
in a group because I'm the boss.
1281
00:57:35,810 --> 00:57:38,943
And if I speak first, everybody else just
says,
1282
00:57:38,943 --> 00:57:41,255
Yeah, that's a good idea, let's do that.
1283
00:57:42,251 --> 00:57:44,893
~ so I would ask them, What's the ~ you
know,
1284
00:57:44,893 --> 00:57:49,037
what should we do when ~ we short ship an
order?
1285
00:57:49,037 --> 00:57:50,479
You know, they ordered a dozen umbrellas,
1286
00:57:50,479 --> 00:57:52,280
we ship nine. Like, what do we do about
that?
1287
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,653
And instead of me stepping in and saying,
1288
00:57:54,653 --> 00:57:55,784
Well, here's what I think we should do,
1289
00:57:55,784 --> 00:57:58,505
I asked all of them what they think they
should do.
1290
00:57:58,505 --> 00:58:02,068
And often the idea was better than
something I could have come up with.
1291
00:58:02,969 --> 00:58:05,590
If I did have a better idea I would I
would share it,
1292
00:58:05,590 --> 00:58:07,581
but I'd wait until the end and then
everybody had shared.
1293
00:58:07,581 --> 00:58:10,722
But ninety percent of the time they either
said what I would say what
1294
00:58:10,722 --> 00:58:13,573
I would have said, or they said something
better than what I would have said.
1295
00:58:13,573 --> 00:58:15,283
And after everybody had shared,
1296
00:58:15,283 --> 00:58:17,074
I would just say, So, what do you guys
think?
1297
00:58:17,074 --> 00:58:19,114
What's the best way? What should we do
when we short ship in order?
1298
00:58:19,114 --> 00:58:22,736
And almost everybody agreed, because it
was just an obviously better idea.
1299
00:58:22,736 --> 00:58:25,117
And then I would my job job was just to
write it down.
1300
00:58:25,273 --> 00:58:27,715
That is an example of being a multiplier
instead of a diminisher.
1301
00:58:27,715 --> 00:58:31,288
Like getting more out of people than they
were capable of doing by themselves.
1302
00:58:31,288 --> 00:58:34,912
That's the first thing that I wish I had
learned a lot earlier.
1303
00:58:34,912 --> 00:58:36,874
Second is, you know, I told you,
1304
00:58:36,874 --> 00:58:39,917
you know, my friends teased me that my
love language is SOPs.
1305
00:58:39,917 --> 00:58:45,723
In 2009, I I have a few things that I knew
that rub people the wrong way.
1306
00:58:46,488 --> 00:58:50,680
Or just things that I needed in a very
particular way in order for you know
1307
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,774
me to be happy. And I wrote a working with
Jonathan SOP.
1308
00:58:53,774 --> 00:58:56,857
And I wrote down all the stuff that people
just don't understand about
1309
00:58:56,857 --> 00:59:00,771
me and my motivations and what I need in
terms of receiving information
1310
00:59:00,771 --> 00:59:03,943
and how I communicate. And I would give it
to every employee on the first day.
1311
00:59:03,943 --> 00:59:07,226
And I'd say like here's how here's what
you need to know about working with me.
1312
00:59:07,226 --> 00:59:10,629
And who wouldn't want an instruction
manual for their boss?
1313
00:59:10,629 --> 00:59:11,971
Just
1314
00:59:12,423 --> 00:59:18,087
Like a small example, I have a absurd need
to know not just what you think,
1315
00:59:18,087 --> 00:59:19,748
but how you arrived at your decision.
1316
00:59:19,748 --> 00:59:21,068
Like it's really important to me.
1317
00:59:21,068 --> 00:59:23,799
And someone would come up with an idea and
say,
1318
00:59:23,799 --> 00:59:27,431
Hey Jonathan, like I've like I've I've
been thinking we should do this.
1319
00:59:27,431 --> 00:59:29,052
And I might think it was a great idea.
1320
00:59:29,052 --> 00:59:31,673
But I needed to know how they arrived at
the answer.
1321
00:59:31,673 --> 00:59:33,714
That's that's on me. That's nothing to do
with them.
1322
00:59:33,714 --> 00:59:35,115
You know, that's just one of my little
quirks.
1323
00:59:35,115 --> 00:59:36,115
And
1324
00:59:36,019 --> 00:59:37,340
I would then interrogate them,
1325
00:59:37,340 --> 00:59:40,462
you know, for ten minutes about how they
got together this answer.
1326
00:59:40,462 --> 00:59:42,224
And it was a little uncomfortable for
everybody.
1327
00:59:42,224 --> 00:59:44,215
And then when I was and then when I was
satisfied,
1328
00:59:44,215 --> 00:59:45,566
I'm like, okay, great, do that.
1329
00:59:45,566 --> 00:59:47,237
And then I would just leave thinking like,
1330
00:59:47,237 --> 00:59:49,889
what happened? Like I just I just came
with a good idea.
1331
00:59:49,889 --> 00:59:54,133
So I would train them. Like, when you come
to me and I w to an idea,
1332
00:59:54,133 --> 00:59:55,474
just tell me how you arrived at it.
1333
00:59:56,294 --> 00:59:58,519
And then they would do that and we'd have
a one minute conversation
1334
00:59:57,980 --> 00:59:58,980
Mm.
1335
00:59:58,519 --> 01:00:00,443
and it'd be perfectly pleasant and we'd
move on.
1336
01:00:00,443 --> 01:00:05,424
And I just wish I'd learned how to do that
a decade before I w actually learned
1337
01:00:05,424 --> 01:00:06,997
to tell people how to work with me best.
1338
01:00:06,997 --> 01:00:07,997
That's good.
1339
01:00:09,822 --> 01:00:15,318
Is there an opinion you once held strongly
that you've changed your mind about
1340
01:00:15,358 --> 01:00:17,100
as a result of your experiences?
1341
01:00:17,861 --> 01:00:21,274
~ hundred percent. So when I was a young
man,
1342
01:00:21,274 --> 01:00:26,313
I prided myself on being hyper analytical
and dismissing what I used
1343
01:00:26,313 --> 01:00:28,889
to call emotional clutter. You know,
1344
01:00:28,889 --> 01:00:33,199
people would come to me and there'd be all
this drama around like this thing
1345
01:00:33,199 --> 01:00:36,334
happened and they'd be talking about all
these emotions and I'd just like just just
1346
01:00:36,334 --> 01:00:38,613
tell me what problem is, let's solve it
and let's move on.
1347
01:00:39,177 --> 01:00:45,823
And that just struck me as efficient and
like why would we waste time talking about
1348
01:00:45,823 --> 01:00:48,146
all this emotional clutter when we could
just solve the problem?
1349
01:00:48,146 --> 01:00:52,269
The problem was that nobody else in my
company thought like that.
1350
01:00:52,269 --> 01:00:54,620
And they to them it was an emotional
clutter,
1351
01:00:54,620 --> 01:00:55,950
and to them it was what actually mattered.
1352
01:00:55,950 --> 01:00:58,070
And ~ I learned that
1353
01:00:58,070 --> 01:01:04,443
Everything that makes life worth living
looks stupid through an analytical lens.
1354
01:01:03,621 --> 01:01:04,621
Mm.
1355
01:01:04,564 --> 01:01:09,657
Seventeen now. And you know,
1356
01:01:09,657 --> 01:01:12,438
I delayed for a long time having kids
because I just it just didn't make
1357
01:01:12,438 --> 01:01:15,650
any sense to me. Like I just looked at the
people I know who are parents
1358
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:18,121
and I thought about like all the time,
1359
01:01:18,121 --> 01:01:20,232
all the money that they invest in their
kids,
1360
01:01:20,232 --> 01:01:22,313
and I'm like, they don't seem any happier.
1361
01:01:22,313 --> 01:01:24,755
Like that just seems like a bad investment
to me.
1362
01:01:24,755 --> 01:01:25,755
And
1363
01:01:25,584 --> 01:01:28,326
You know, being a father, it's just the
best thing I've ever done.
1364
01:01:28,326 --> 01:01:30,967
I get so much joy, I get so much
satisfaction of it.
1365
01:01:30,967 --> 01:01:35,210
And I tease my son all the time that he's
the worst investment I'll ever make.
1366
01:01:35,210 --> 01:01:37,632
Because I'll never get that time and money
back.
1367
01:01:37,632 --> 01:01:40,133
But it's just an absurd
1368
01:01:38,621 --> 01:01:39,765
Ha ha ~
1369
01:01:40,133 --> 01:01:44,676
thing to say. Like it doesn't ~ it ignores
all the joy of being a parent.
1370
01:01:44,676 --> 01:01:50,580
And same thing with work, when two people
are ~ upset about something
1371
01:01:51,342 --> 01:01:53,483
Yeah, you could ignore, you know,
1372
01:01:53,483 --> 01:01:55,314
all the emotions in it and just solve the
problem,
1373
01:01:55,314 --> 01:01:57,855
but it's just not gonna work. 'Cause
that's not what drives people.
1374
01:01:57,855 --> 01:01:58,976
We're emotional creatures.
1375
01:01:58,841 --> 01:01:59,841
Hm.
1376
01:01:59,476 --> 01:02:03,938
We make emotional decisions and then we
find a logical reason to justify it.
1377
01:02:03,938 --> 01:02:07,779
We do not make logical decisions and then
our emotions fall into place.
1378
01:02:07,779 --> 01:02:10,721
And ~ yeah, I wish I understood that a
long time ago.
1379
01:02:10,721 --> 01:02:13,462
I would have been a lot happier and I
would have caused a lot less ~
1380
01:02:13,671 --> 01:02:15,223
a lot less suffering in my wake.
1381
01:02:15,223 --> 01:02:21,115
Well, i i in that same vein, ~ if you
could go back to nineteen ninety seven
1382
01:02:21,255 --> 01:02:23,249
and do it all over again, would you?
1383
01:02:23,249 --> 01:02:24,285
~ in a heartbeat.
1384
01:02:24,285 --> 01:02:28,863
I love being an entrepreneur. I love the
freedom and the abundance that comes with
1385
01:02:28,863 --> 01:02:29,863
it.
1386
01:02:29,023 --> 01:02:31,225
These are my people. All my friends are
entrepreneurs.
1387
01:02:31,225 --> 01:02:34,377
And it's not just that we start
businesses,
1388
01:02:34,377 --> 01:02:37,060
it's not just that we see the world a
little bit differently,
1389
01:02:37,060 --> 01:02:41,713
it's not just that we think differently
and ~ but we have this agency to
1390
01:02:41,713 --> 01:02:43,494
act in our lives. As an entrepreneur,
1391
01:02:43,494 --> 01:02:47,898
if you don't like your team, let's talk
about who hired all these idiots.
1392
01:02:47,898 --> 01:02:49,139
Let's do something about it.
1393
01:02:49,961 --> 01:02:53,443
Good luck if you work at a bank and you
tell your boss,
1394
01:02:53,443 --> 01:02:54,733
you know, this team's not working for me.
1395
01:02:54,733 --> 01:02:55,734
I think I'd like a different team.
1396
01:02:55,734 --> 01:02:58,683
Like you just can't do that unless you
have been unless you're an entrepreneur.
1397
01:02:58,683 --> 01:03:02,307
You this agency. If you're an entrepreneur
and you want to start taking Wednesdays
1398
01:03:02,307 --> 01:03:04,178
off so that you can coach your kids a
little league game,
1399
01:03:04,178 --> 01:03:08,550
okay, great. Let's talk about how to
organize your workflow so that your
company's
1400
01:03:08,550 --> 01:03:10,700
not so dependent on you and that you can
take that time off.
1401
01:03:10,700 --> 01:03:15,182
~ we have such agency. And ~ and I love
it.
1402
01:03:15,182 --> 01:03:17,393
You know, there's so much that I've done
differently in my life.
1403
01:03:17,393 --> 01:03:20,974
With ra how I raised and educated a kid,
1404
01:03:20,974 --> 01:03:23,994
how ~ you know, just travel choices that
we made,
1405
01:03:23,994 --> 01:03:26,825
just the whole idea to start a business so
that we could go back and forth
1406
01:03:26,825 --> 01:03:29,096
to China and, you know, see family and all
that sort of stuff.
1407
01:03:29,096 --> 01:03:32,577
Would have never been able to do that if I
w had done any other kind of work.
1408
01:03:32,577 --> 01:03:35,998
And it's not without its challenges,
1409
01:03:35,998 --> 01:03:39,218
certainly. it's not at all clear to me
that it's easier,
1410
01:03:39,218 --> 01:03:40,399
but
1411
01:03:40,853 --> 01:03:46,873
For ~ yeah, just for someone who prizes
freedom and independence and just wanting
1412
01:03:46,873 --> 01:03:48,205
to do things a little bit differently.
1413
01:03:48,205 --> 01:03:50,778
There's just no other way to do it.
1414
01:03:50,778 --> 01:03:52,481
And those things are really important to
me.
1415
01:03:52,481 --> 01:03:53,792
Amen. Good stuff.
1416
01:03:55,875 --> 01:03:58,753
What has been your biggest win as a
leader?
1417
01:04:00,375 --> 01:04:01,825
Biggest win as a leader. You know,
1418
01:04:01,825 --> 01:04:03,866
it's ~ it sounds like a small thing,
1419
01:04:03,866 --> 01:04:06,807
but it just it really means a lot to me.
1420
01:04:06,807 --> 01:04:12,939
So at our company we had this big mishmash
of people.
1421
01:04:12,939 --> 01:04:14,889
You know, our sales reps when they would
come to visit,
1422
01:04:14,889 --> 01:04:16,300
they're like, it's like the United Nations
here.
1423
01:04:16,300 --> 01:04:19,051
Like we we people from every background
1424
01:04:19,355 --> 01:04:21,806
every you know, we'd people in their
twenties,
1425
01:04:21,806 --> 01:04:23,647
thirties, forties, fifties and sixties,
1426
01:04:23,647 --> 01:04:26,709
we'd people from ~ you know,
1427
01:04:26,709 --> 01:04:30,141
half of our employees you know were born
in another country and like
1428
01:04:30,141 --> 01:04:31,242
all sorts of different countries.
1429
01:04:31,242 --> 01:04:33,323
We had salespeople, we had artists,
1430
01:04:33,323 --> 01:04:35,434
you know, like designers, we we had you
know,
1431
01:04:35,434 --> 01:04:36,855
warehouse workers, we'd office people,
1432
01:04:36,855 --> 01:04:39,146
every kind of education and background.
1433
01:04:39,146 --> 01:04:40,626
And we all came together
1434
01:04:40,696 --> 01:04:43,407
For a single purpose, to ~ you know,
1435
01:04:43,407 --> 01:04:46,158
to to to ~ thrive in this company,
1436
01:04:46,158 --> 01:04:49,029
because the company was a vehicle for
personal and professional growth,
1437
01:04:49,029 --> 01:04:51,120
for ourselves, our employees, our
customers,
1438
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:53,530
everyone who works with us. And we used to
sell we used to have
1439
01:04:53,531 --> 01:04:56,212
~ biweekly company meetings, all com all
hands meetings,
1440
01:04:56,212 --> 01:04:57,212
we'd cater it.
1441
01:04:57,684 --> 01:05:00,216
And we would celebrate birthdays,
1442
01:05:00,216 --> 01:05:01,765
we'd celebrate anniversaries, you know,
1443
01:05:01,765 --> 01:05:04,621
work anniversaries. And we'd end with a
comedy meeting,
1444
01:05:04,621 --> 01:05:05,835
you where you where we're going,
1445
01:05:05,835 --> 01:05:08,116
what what to ~ what to expect.
1446
01:05:08,116 --> 01:05:12,379
And we would have people tell us that they
felt safer at work than they felt than
1447
01:05:12,379 --> 01:05:15,081
they than they felt at home. There
1448
01:05:14,532 --> 01:05:15,532
Mm.
1449
01:05:15,081 --> 01:05:17,303
was young one young man who worked in the
office.
1450
01:05:17,533 --> 01:05:19,373
who it's probably t I think it was twenty
three years old.
1451
01:05:19,373 --> 01:05:21,674
He had a much younger sister who was
eight.
1452
01:05:21,674 --> 01:05:23,765
And in their family, for whatever reason,
1453
01:05:23,765 --> 01:05:25,476
this they just never celebrated birthdays.
1454
01:05:25,476 --> 01:05:27,777
And he experienced every week,
1455
01:05:27,777 --> 01:05:30,338
every couple of weeks, we would celebrate
birthdays and he just thought
1456
01:05:30,338 --> 01:05:36,371
it was such a fun thing. And he told me
the story that for his little baby sister,
1457
01:05:36,371 --> 01:05:38,321
he bought her a cake and, you know,
1458
01:05:38,321 --> 01:05:41,253
we we sang happy birthday. And it just
kinda made her day
1459
01:05:41,253 --> 01:05:45,436
And for me those were my most proud
moments as a leader when I knew that
1460
01:05:45,436 --> 01:05:49,811
the people that worked with us just they
loved our culture and they took that home
1461
01:05:49,811 --> 01:05:54,223
to their families. And that they changed
they changed their family legacy because
1462
01:05:54,223 --> 01:05:56,465
of what they learned and experienced at
Godorb.
1463
01:05:56,465 --> 01:06:00,838
That's great. So we're we're now getting
somewhat removed from nineteen ninety
1464
01:06:00,838 --> 01:06:02,199
seven. It's been a little while.
1465
01:06:01,985 --> 01:06:02,985
Yeah.
1466
01:06:02,199 --> 01:06:03,199
~
1467
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:07,733
the you know, you talked about going
online and moving away from the small
1468
01:06:07,733 --> 01:06:09,865
mom and pop stores to some of the big box
1469
01:06:09,442 --> 01:06:10,442
Yeah.
1470
01:06:09,865 --> 01:06:11,977
stores. The the market has changed a lot.
1471
01:06:11,977 --> 01:06:16,370
Do you think it's still possible today for
someone to do something like you've done?
1472
01:06:17,191 --> 01:06:19,873
So absolutely possible. Probably more
possible,
1473
01:06:19,873 --> 01:06:22,305
although it's very different. So we built
our business on small
1474
01:06:22,305 --> 01:06:24,412
mom and pop retailers. That's impossible
these days.
1475
01:06:24,412 --> 01:06:25,412
There's just not enough of them.
1476
01:06:25,338 --> 01:06:27,740
We also built our business by traveling to
trade shows.
1477
01:06:27,740 --> 01:06:30,072
You know, we go to Atlanta and we'd sign
up with sales rep,
1478
01:06:30,072 --> 01:06:32,674
we to New York and we'd sell sign up a
sales or if we go to Las Vegas,
1479
01:06:32,674 --> 01:06:34,165
we'd sign up a sales rep all over the
country.
1480
01:06:34,165 --> 01:06:36,136
those people hardly exist anymore.
1481
01:06:36,136 --> 01:06:40,249
there's ~ like the average age of sales
reps is in well into their sixties.
1482
01:06:40,249 --> 01:06:44,341
Like young people don't ~ become
independent product sales reps anymore.
1483
01:06:44,341 --> 01:06:48,083
so those avenues are closed. On the other
hand,
1484
01:06:48,083 --> 01:06:54,015
with you know it took us six months of a
lot of work.
1485
01:06:54,015 --> 01:06:55,877
Me, a designer
1486
01:06:56,733 --> 01:07:00,606
and ~ you know consulting heavily with the
salesperson to build
1487
01:07:00,606 --> 01:07:03,280
our first ~ direction consumer retail
website.
1488
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,482
You know, I could probably do this in two
days right now,
1489
01:07:05,482 --> 01:07:06,904
with the tools that are available.
1490
01:07:06,216 --> 01:07:07,216
Mm.
1491
01:07:06,904 --> 01:07:08,926
anyone could sell on Amazon.
1492
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,691
You literally just set up an account.
1493
01:07:10,175 --> 01:07:11,175
Yeah.
1494
01:07:11,691 --> 01:07:14,352
Like you don't you don't need a buyer to
give you the green light.
1495
01:07:14,352 --> 01:07:15,703
Nobody's waiting to give
1496
01:07:15,703 --> 01:07:18,814
you permission anymore. ~ you can just do
these things by yourself.
1497
01:07:18,814 --> 01:07:21,595
So and in so many ways it's easier to do.
1498
01:07:21,595 --> 01:07:24,656
And then there's a few ways that are that
that are harder.
1499
01:07:24,656 --> 01:07:27,767
information now is available to everybody.
1500
01:07:27,767 --> 01:07:29,547
you don't even need to know which books to
read.
1501
01:07:29,547 --> 01:07:32,669
You just go to Claude or ChatGBT and say,
1502
01:07:32,669 --> 01:07:34,900
like, how do I get set up at Amazon?
1503
01:07:34,900 --> 01:07:36,691
And then it just tells you you don't
1504
01:07:35,652 --> 01:07:36,653
~
1505
01:07:36,691 --> 01:07:37,691
even have to
1506
01:07:37,061 --> 01:07:40,872
talk to people like I did. Like it's all
it's all available right now
1507
01:07:40,872 --> 01:07:42,433
in so many ways. It's so much easier.
1508
01:07:42,433 --> 01:07:48,075
~ it is a little bit harder to get
financing than it was when I was getting
started.
1509
01:07:48,075 --> 01:07:51,305
Just the the standards are are are are are
are tighter
1510
01:07:51,503 --> 01:07:52,954
It's a lot easier to get hard money,
1511
01:07:52,954 --> 01:07:54,715
~ hi you know, high interest money.
1512
01:07:54,715 --> 01:07:56,996
that's a lot easier now than it used to
be.
1513
01:07:56,996 --> 01:07:59,281
but just there's just so much less that's
required.
1514
01:07:59,281 --> 01:08:02,463
You need less equipment, you need ~ fewer
people,
1515
01:08:02,463 --> 01:08:05,064
and there's just all these services to do
it for you now.
1516
01:08:05,064 --> 01:08:07,665
so on balance it's easier, but ~ you know,
1517
01:08:07,665 --> 01:08:08,826
some things are easier, some things are
harder.
1518
01:08:09,793 --> 01:08:14,537
Okay. And I know you're n no longer
running Kid Dorable.
1519
01:08:14,537 --> 01:08:17,010
you guys had an exit a while ago.
1520
01:08:17,010 --> 01:08:20,763
Do you mind telling us a little bit about
that the process,
1521
01:08:20,763 --> 01:08:25,357
the emotions, the thoughts with deciding
to sell and then ~ just just what that
1522
01:08:25,357 --> 01:08:27,158
process looked like and felt like?
1523
01:08:26,350 --> 01:08:27,350
Yeah.
1524
01:08:28,111 --> 01:08:29,712
Yeah, so it's an interesting story.
1525
01:08:29,712 --> 01:08:33,443
So no, I told you my friends teased me I
love languages,
1526
01:08:33,443 --> 01:08:36,033
SOPs, I systematized everything in the
business.
1527
01:08:36,033 --> 01:08:40,595
And after a couple decades, I was working
from home a couple hours a day.
1528
01:08:40,595 --> 01:08:43,495
And I was going to the office once a week
for face-to-face meetings.
1529
01:08:43,495 --> 01:08:47,636
And I was looking for some other way to
express my entrepreneurial energies.
1530
01:08:47,636 --> 01:08:51,233
I live about three blocks from Lake
Michigan,
1531
01:08:51,233 --> 01:08:52,256
just outside of Chicago.
1532
01:08:52,256 --> 01:08:54,417
And it was a single day, it was january
thirty first,
1533
01:08:54,417 --> 01:08:57,060
twenty twenty, right before anyone heard
of COVID.
1534
01:08:57,060 --> 01:09:00,361
And I took a walk that Friday afternoon,
1535
01:09:00,361 --> 01:09:01,676
from my home to Lake Michigan,
1536
01:09:01,676 --> 01:09:03,386
just to clear my head, process the week.
1537
01:09:03,386 --> 01:09:05,207
It's a walk I take it hundreds of times.
1538
01:09:05,207 --> 01:09:09,069
But this day, as soon as the water came
into view,
1539
01:09:09,069 --> 01:09:11,332
I literally felt the ground shift beneath
my feet.
1540
01:09:11,332 --> 01:09:13,493
I was unsteady, I needed to sit down.
1541
01:09:13,493 --> 01:09:17,145
And I realized in an instant I can't keep
devoting my work energy
1542
01:09:17,145 --> 01:09:18,274
to something that doesn't light me up.
1543
01:09:18,274 --> 01:09:19,316
And I took a two hour walk
1544
01:09:19,924 --> 01:09:24,856
And I cleared my head and it just became
clear to me in that instant that
1545
01:09:24,856 --> 01:09:27,527
I was born to be a coach. Love to learn,
1546
01:09:27,527 --> 01:09:31,269
great at teaching. The world needs
entrepreneurs who have clarity on who they
are,
1547
01:09:31,269 --> 01:09:32,469
where they're going, and how to get there.
1548
01:09:32,469 --> 01:09:36,361
So I came back, talked to my wife and
partner in the business about
1549
01:09:36,361 --> 01:09:38,631
me exiting to become a full time coach.
1550
01:09:38,631 --> 01:09:41,832
She had been on her own journey this last
few years.
1551
01:09:41,832 --> 01:09:44,783
She'd wanted to ~ have more operational
control of the business,
1552
01:09:44,783 --> 01:09:45,895
so it worked out in that sense.
1553
01:09:45,895 --> 01:09:46,895
And ~
1554
01:09:47,194 --> 01:09:48,776
Erick, it's the best decision I ever made.
1555
01:09:48,776 --> 01:09:51,627
If it was merely work I was born for,
1556
01:09:51,627 --> 01:09:53,939
and it is, it would be a bright spot.
1557
01:09:53,939 --> 01:09:59,744
But because what I do is I help
entrepreneurs have lives and businesses
that feel
1558
01:09:59,744 --> 01:10:01,075
more effortless, more meaningful,
1559
01:10:01,075 --> 01:10:04,998
more joyous. And that first year there
were probably fifty times where I would
1560
01:10:04,998 --> 01:10:09,401
be on a call, having a conversation with a
client about alignment with purpose
1561
01:10:09,401 --> 01:10:10,853
and values, like we talked about.
1562
01:10:11,489 --> 01:10:14,941
about achieving goals, about creat having
a vision that magnetically pulls
1563
01:10:14,941 --> 01:10:17,192
you towards it. About relationships,
1564
01:10:17,192 --> 01:10:20,984
about removing obstacles that are in front
of you and most importantly removing
1565
01:10:20,984 --> 01:10:22,815
obstacles that are you know between your
ears.
1566
01:10:22,815 --> 01:10:25,437
And I would think to myself on these
calls,
1567
01:10:25,437 --> 01:10:29,099
Jonathan, like there's that part of your
life that's out of alignment.
1568
01:10:29,099 --> 01:10:30,780
Like maybe you should do something about
that.
1569
01:10:30,780 --> 01:10:33,902
And he did, like fifty times that first
year.
1570
01:10:33,902 --> 01:10:36,423
And I worked out all my misalignments,
1571
01:10:36,423 --> 01:10:38,304
all my fears, all my compulsions,
1572
01:10:38,304 --> 01:10:39,365
they're all they're all gone.
1573
01:10:40,551 --> 01:10:44,046
And Erick, the biggest misalignment in a
in my life was with my marriage.
1574
01:10:44,046 --> 01:10:48,643
You know, we had fifteen magical years
together that I mean,
1575
01:10:48,643 --> 01:10:52,789
just unbelievably good. And I could kinda
one hand the number of couples that
1576
01:10:52,789 --> 01:10:53,930
I would look at and think, like,
1577
01:10:53,930 --> 01:10:55,641
wow, those guys really have something.
1578
01:10:56,209 --> 01:10:58,131
But then in two thousand nine a couple
things happened.
1579
01:10:58,131 --> 01:10:59,582
There was a great recession, which I
mentioned.
1580
01:10:59,582 --> 01:11:01,143
We lost money for the first time.
1581
01:11:01,143 --> 01:11:03,145
And it's never fun to lose money,
1582
01:11:03,145 --> 01:11:08,149
but the success of the business was very
important ~ to my wife's ego.
1583
01:11:08,149 --> 01:11:10,791
It was a real blow to her. And our son was
born.
1584
01:11:10,791 --> 01:11:15,446
And it's very common that if you've
unresolved childhood trauma,
1585
01:11:15,446 --> 01:11:16,826
if you have a child who's that age,
1586
01:11:16,826 --> 01:11:19,358
it could reopen those wounds. And that's
what happened with her.
1587
01:11:19,358 --> 01:11:20,759
and she fell into a depression.
1588
01:11:20,759 --> 01:11:21,970
that she's never really gotten out of.
1589
01:11:21,970 --> 01:11:25,263
And things went from magical to pretty
good but we have her challenges
1590
01:11:25,263 --> 01:11:28,824
to actively bad. And I did a lot of
healing.
1591
01:11:28,824 --> 01:11:33,767
I told myself that thing I said ~ about it
you know a few minutes into our call,
1592
01:11:33,767 --> 01:11:36,269
life's a curriculum perfectly designed to
work out our purpose.
1593
01:11:36,269 --> 01:11:39,591
Who is it that I need to be? What's the
action that I need to take?
1594
01:11:39,591 --> 01:11:40,591
What is it I need to learn?
1595
01:11:41,456 --> 01:11:45,321
And what I needed to learn was to to exit.
1596
01:11:45,321 --> 01:11:48,074
exit that company and ~ exit the marriage.
1597
01:11:48,074 --> 01:11:49,315
Now I did my divorce backwards.
1598
01:11:49,315 --> 01:11:53,378
I did all of my healing and learned to
love her again before I
1599
01:11:53,378 --> 01:11:55,140
had our first conversation of like,
1600
01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:56,341
you know, divorce is a now thing.
1601
01:11:56,341 --> 01:11:57,341
But we don't
1602
01:11:57,622 --> 01:11:59,043
I mean, as far as divorces go,
1603
01:11:59,043 --> 01:12:02,246
it was ~ it was very drama-free.
1604
01:12:02,246 --> 01:12:03,627
And it was drama-free for a few reasons.
1605
01:12:03,627 --> 01:12:05,809
I'd already started my coaching business,
1606
01:12:05,809 --> 01:12:09,642
and so much of her identity is you know,
1607
01:12:09,642 --> 01:12:13,215
i is wound up with Kadorval. So,
1608
01:12:13,215 --> 01:12:15,696
you know, there's two contentious things
in any divorce.
1609
01:12:15,696 --> 01:12:17,418
One is ~ if there's children, you know,
1610
01:12:17,418 --> 01:12:19,459
it's child custody, and the other is
assets.
1611
01:12:19,459 --> 01:12:22,521
for child custody we have a very unusual
arrangement.
1612
01:12:22,521 --> 01:12:24,142
We turned our home into a duplex.
1613
01:12:24,142 --> 01:12:27,644
There's a wall of separation and a magic
door that only our son could pass through.
1614
01:12:27,644 --> 01:12:31,867
So both of us get to see him every day and
grow up and we just totally sidestepped
1615
01:12:32,137 --> 01:12:34,489
that issue. There's no shuttling back and
forth or anything like that.
1616
01:12:34,489 --> 01:12:35,750
And then there's division of assets.
1617
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:39,491
And I'm very comfortable, confident in my
ability to earn.
1618
01:12:39,491 --> 01:12:41,253
She was less ~ less confident.
1619
01:12:42,249 --> 01:12:45,052
And I started negotiations with my walk
away,
1620
01:12:45,052 --> 01:12:48,335
~ which was about seven giving her seventy
percent of her assets,
1621
01:12:48,335 --> 01:12:50,073
including the business. ~ you know,
1622
01:12:50,073 --> 01:12:54,031
she gets to keep the company that we both
~ built together and that I
1623
01:12:54,031 --> 01:12:55,622
was no longer really operating.
1624
01:12:55,622 --> 01:12:56,704
and I got to keep mine, you know,
1625
01:12:56,704 --> 01:12:57,813
my coaching business. and then,
1626
01:12:57,813 --> 01:12:59,214
you know, division of properties and
stuff.
1627
01:13:00,423 --> 01:13:03,695
And it just made all those discussions
very easy.
1628
01:13:03,695 --> 01:13:07,146
And there were there were probably a dozen
times over it was ten months from first
1629
01:13:07,146 --> 01:13:08,667
conversation to signing papers.
1630
01:13:08,667 --> 01:13:10,846
There was probably ten months where I was
sorry,
1631
01:13:10,846 --> 01:13:14,029
ten times where she would come up to me
and say like she wanted more of this
1632
01:13:14,029 --> 01:13:16,186
or more of that. And I would just say no,
1633
01:13:16,186 --> 01:13:18,860
like if we can't agree to this which is so
lopsided,
1634
01:13:18,860 --> 01:13:21,031
you know, in her favor. We we can't agree
to anything.
1635
01:13:21,031 --> 01:13:23,691
Let's just let's just go to court and do a
fifty fifty split,
1636
01:13:23,691 --> 01:13:25,132
which would have been so much worse for
her.
1637
01:13:25,448 --> 01:13:29,071
So I just made it very drama free and it
made a a a very easy progression.
1638
01:13:29,071 --> 01:13:31,533
So the company is still around.
1639
01:13:31,533 --> 01:13:33,376
she runs it. I run my business.
1640
01:13:33,376 --> 01:13:39,311
And ~ yeah, just what made sense and ~ I
get to do what I was born for
1641
01:13:39,311 --> 01:13:43,655
and she gets to continue to do what you
know what what she feels to be
1642
01:13:43,655 --> 01:13:45,006
is just such a visceral part of her.
1643
01:13:45,957 --> 01:13:51,645
Okay. And so we can take a few moments
here and talk about your coaching business
1644
01:13:51,645 --> 01:13:52,645
now. what
1645
01:13:52,042 --> 01:13:53,042
Yeah.
1646
01:13:52,417 --> 01:13:54,590
is it that you feel you're born for?
1647
01:13:54,590 --> 01:13:58,375
~ what do you do and how can people get in
touch with you if they want
1648
01:13:58,375 --> 01:14:00,138
to ~ engage your services?
1649
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:06,684
Yeah, so I coach entrepreneurs whose minds
don't work on default settings,
1650
01:14:06,684 --> 01:14:12,208
people who just don't want to follow the
traditional playbook
1651
01:14:12,208 --> 01:14:15,491
and I help you find alignment,
1652
01:14:15,491 --> 01:14:17,212
I help you find what you were born for,
1653
01:14:17,212 --> 01:14:20,895
I help you have a business that just
1654
01:14:21,419 --> 01:14:24,501
Feels effortless. If you're feeling that
your business is a slog,
1655
01:14:24,501 --> 01:14:27,322
if you're feeling that it's l you've lost
touch with why you started
1656
01:14:27,322 --> 01:14:29,473
in the first place, I help you rediscover
that purpose,
1657
01:14:29,473 --> 01:14:32,685
that passion. the best way to get in touch
with me is on my website,
1658
01:14:32,685 --> 01:14:35,757
untangled -coaching.com.
1659
01:14:35,757 --> 01:14:39,769
Don't forget the dash, or go to LinkedIn
and search for Jonathan Domsky.
1660
01:14:39,769 --> 01:14:40,769
I'm the only one.
1661
01:14:40,490 --> 01:14:43,352
before we started recording here when we
were kind of touching base,
1662
01:14:43,352 --> 01:14:48,745
you mentioned that you and your current
wife have a new business venture.
1663
01:14:48,745 --> 01:14:49,836
you're leaving
1664
01:14:48,817 --> 01:14:49,817
Good yeah.
1665
01:14:50,076 --> 01:14:55,509
kind of the the products and ~ online
retail space and diving into the blue
collar.
1666
01:14:55,509 --> 01:14:56,980
Do you want to talk a little bit about
that?
1667
01:14:56,980 --> 01:15:00,142
What is it you guys got started and what
has you excited about it?
1668
01:15:01,051 --> 01:15:06,496
Yeah. So ~ I'm recently remarried and my
my wife,
1669
01:15:06,496 --> 01:15:10,620
she spent her entire career as a corporate
lawyer working
1670
01:15:10,620 --> 01:15:12,421
in big financial institutions,
1671
01:15:12,421 --> 01:15:14,984
and it's exactly as soulless as you would
expect.
1672
01:15:14,984 --> 01:15:20,039
And she hates her industry. She's been
complaining about it for as long
1673
01:15:20,039 --> 01:15:23,953
as I've known her. And when I first
started dating
1674
01:15:24,561 --> 01:15:28,613
I would say, like, hey, like my friends
are getting together in this cool place.
1675
01:15:28,613 --> 01:15:31,114
Like, do you wanna go? And she would say,
1676
01:15:31,114 --> 01:15:34,405
Jonathan, I have to work. Like like I have
a job.
1677
01:15:34,405 --> 01:15:37,316
And after asking this for a few times,
1678
01:15:37,316 --> 01:15:42,748
she ~ she caught the entrepreneurial bug
and she agreed that it made
1679
01:15:42,748 --> 01:15:48,500
a lot more sense to instead of devoting
all of her work energy to an industry
1680
01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:49,711
and a job that she hates
1681
01:15:50,507 --> 01:15:54,030
To start doing something that she thinks
might actually be fun and that
1682
01:15:54,030 --> 01:15:57,133
she could see and make an impact and to
have a little bit of time freedom.
1683
01:15:57,133 --> 01:16:00,846
So that if she decides to take that
afternoon off or take that week off,
1684
01:16:00,846 --> 01:16:03,438
she could just do it, 'cause she doesn't
have to ask her boss for permission.
1685
01:16:03,438 --> 01:16:06,070
And at first she looked at you know,
1686
01:16:06,070 --> 01:16:07,070
she didn't want to start a business,
1687
01:16:07,011 --> 01:16:08,233
she wanted to acquire one, 'cause,
1688
01:16:08,233 --> 01:16:10,574
you know, she didn't want to have that
long ramp up,
1689
01:16:10,574 --> 01:16:11,845
'cause it takes years sometimes,
1690
01:16:11,845 --> 01:16:13,466
you know, to figure that stuff out.
1691
01:16:13,466 --> 01:16:14,627
She just wanted something that already
worked.
1692
01:16:14,627 --> 01:16:16,119
And she left it at some local businesses,
1693
01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:18,352
like a bookstore, which would have been a
terrible business,
1694
01:16:18,352 --> 01:16:21,387
and an ice cream store, which would have
been an awesome business,
1695
01:16:21,387 --> 01:16:22,979
but just there was some weird stuff.
1696
01:16:22,979 --> 01:16:26,744
They she actually made an offer for a
thousand dollars more than asking,
1697
01:16:26,744 --> 01:16:28,016
and they never got back to her.
1698
01:16:28,016 --> 01:16:29,859
There there was some weird thing going on,
1699
01:16:29,859 --> 01:16:30,859
we don't know.
1700
01:16:30,488 --> 01:16:32,789
And then a bunch of month months passed by
and she said,
1701
01:16:32,789 --> 01:16:36,370
You know, I'm tired of waiting for the
perfect opportunity to come by.
1702
01:16:36,370 --> 01:16:37,370
I'm just gonna make it happen.
1703
01:16:37,362 --> 01:16:42,105
And she goes online and she looks at the
websites of some business brokers
1704
01:16:42,585 --> 01:16:44,566
and she says, Hey Jonathan, come over I
you look at this.
1705
01:16:44,566 --> 01:16:46,788
And it was a grouting franchise,
1706
01:16:46,788 --> 01:16:49,290
Grout Doctor. And I look at it and I say,
1707
01:16:49,290 --> 01:16:51,201
This is the most boring business I've ever
looked at.
1708
01:16:51,201 --> 01:16:54,273
Like why like why grout? Like even the
word's ugly.
1709
01:16:54,273 --> 01:16:55,363
Like like nobody
1710
01:16:56,305 --> 01:16:59,287
Nobody is a as a child says, you know,
1711
01:16:59,287 --> 01:17:00,397
as a ten-year-old girl, you're like,
1712
01:17:00,397 --> 01:17:02,989
when I will grow up, I want to own a
grouting business.
1713
01:17:02,989 --> 01:17:05,451
Like like what like why? And she's like,
1714
01:17:05,451 --> 01:17:06,451
No, seriously, come over here,
1715
01:17:06,251 --> 01:17:09,783
look at it. And Erick, the the numbers are
fantastic.
1716
01:17:09,783 --> 01:17:13,704
Like there's huge margins. It's the
current or the the previous owners.
1717
01:17:13,704 --> 01:17:15,005
I really respect what they built.
1718
01:17:15,005 --> 01:17:18,387
They're extremely skilled s tradespeople.
1719
01:17:19,251 --> 01:17:21,752
And they do really high quality work.
1720
01:17:21,752 --> 01:17:25,253
They have wonderful Google reviews and all
that sort of stuff.
1721
01:17:25,253 --> 01:17:28,914
But they go into job. They didn't own a
business.
1722
01:17:28,914 --> 01:17:29,964
And
1723
01:17:29,658 --> 01:17:30,658
Mm.
1724
01:17:29,964 --> 01:17:31,425
what I mean by that is, you know,
1725
01:17:31,425 --> 01:17:33,275
the the previous owner was, you know,
1726
01:17:33,275 --> 01:17:36,626
owner operator. and he quoted every single
job and the extent of
1727
01:17:36,626 --> 01:17:38,616
the territory was as far as he was willing
to drive.
1728
01:17:38,616 --> 01:17:40,577
They've never done
1729
01:17:40,771 --> 01:17:43,743
Any marketing to previous customers,
1730
01:17:43,743 --> 01:17:45,824
you know, once they once they service
them,
1731
01:17:45,824 --> 01:17:47,765
you know, it's done. Like maybe someone
will call them back.
1732
01:17:47,765 --> 01:17:49,766
They've they've just they've never
contacted them again,
1733
01:17:49,766 --> 01:17:51,007
like could we do another bathroom,
1734
01:17:51,007 --> 01:17:52,687
could we do your kitchen or anything like
that?
1735
01:17:52,687 --> 01:17:56,640
The only advertising they've ever done is
print advertising,
1736
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:59,755
like those value packs that you know
homeowners get and you they're good,
1737
01:17:59,755 --> 01:18:00,755
you know, they work.
1738
01:18:00,322 --> 01:18:01,802
They barely do any commercial work.
1739
01:18:01,802 --> 01:18:03,463
They don't do any government work.
1740
01:18:03,463 --> 01:18:05,443
There's just so much opportunity.
1741
01:18:05,443 --> 01:18:08,804
And I have a lot of f I can tell you all
my friends are entrepreneurs.
1742
01:18:08,804 --> 01:18:11,415
I have a friend who is in the chimney
business.
1743
01:18:11,415 --> 01:18:13,146
I've known him for chimney sweep.
1744
01:18:13,146 --> 01:18:15,126
Known him for twenty-five years.
1745
01:18:15,126 --> 01:18:17,427
He's a fifty million dollar company.
1746
01:18:17,427 --> 01:18:20,848
He's the largest chimney sweep company in
the country.
1747
01:18:20,848 --> 01:18:23,749
And when he started it was just him him
and his dad in a truck.
1748
01:18:24,483 --> 01:18:25,978
And that's everyone that he competes
against.
1749
01:18:25,978 --> 01:18:27,462
You know, two guys in a truck.
1750
01:18:27,462 --> 01:18:29,423
And but he treats it as a business.
1751
01:18:29,423 --> 01:18:31,874
You know, it's been a couple decades since
he's gotten on a ladder.
1752
01:18:31,874 --> 01:18:37,277
But you know, he's professional marketing
and he's professional office people
1753
01:18:37,417 --> 01:18:40,309
and he you know he train actually trains
his guys.
1754
01:18:40,309 --> 01:18:43,871
He's you know he's a he has an office in a
warehouse where he you know brings
1755
01:18:43,871 --> 01:18:46,743
the guys in and trains them on and on
safety and new techniques.
1756
01:18:46,743 --> 01:18:49,725
He had trouble finding equipment one year,
1757
01:18:49,725 --> 01:18:52,803
so he started a a product business and now
he's one of the large he's
1758
01:18:52,803 --> 01:18:53,803
one of the three
1759
01:18:53,297 --> 01:18:57,220
Largest chimney sweep ~ product ~
suppliers in the country.
1760
01:18:57,220 --> 01:18:59,933
In a lot of the trades, the you know,
1761
01:18:59,933 --> 01:19:01,864
there's good people doing really good
work,
1762
01:19:01,864 --> 01:19:04,086
but they treat it as a job, they don't
treat it a business.
1763
01:19:04,086 --> 01:19:06,398
And for someone who's business minded,
1764
01:19:06,398 --> 01:19:09,353
there's so much opportunity. And ~ you
know,
1765
01:19:09,353 --> 01:19:12,612
just something as revolutionary as
advertising on Facebook.
1766
01:19:12,612 --> 01:19:13,612
you know, the ~
1767
01:19:14,335 --> 01:19:18,306
The guys the the workers, they collect ~
checks at the end of the
1768
01:19:18,306 --> 01:19:23,188
day and would drive to the owner's house
to to deliver them.
1769
01:19:23,188 --> 01:19:24,998
And we were looking at that and like,
1770
01:19:24,998 --> 01:19:26,609
do you guys like spend unpaid,
1771
01:19:26,609 --> 01:19:29,810
by the way? And like, do you guys like
driving an hour with a check in
1772
01:19:29,810 --> 01:19:31,490
our cash to deliver it? He's like,
1773
01:19:31,490 --> 01:19:34,921
No. Like, let's get you a debit card so
that you could just go to an
1774
01:19:34,921 --> 01:19:37,312
ATM after work and deposit it.
1775
01:19:37,312 --> 01:19:38,892
There's just there's a thousand things
like this.
1776
01:19:38,892 --> 01:19:39,892
And
1777
01:19:39,456 --> 01:19:41,540
There's just so opportunity. She's she's
gonna crush it.
1778
01:19:41,540 --> 01:19:44,345
She's gonna double, triple the size of
this business just within a year.
1779
01:19:44,345 --> 01:19:46,069
Just by doing things at her line of sight.
1780
01:19:46,069 --> 01:19:48,683
By treating it like a real business as
opposed to treating
1781
01:19:48,106 --> 01:19:49,106
Yeah.
1782
01:19:48,683 --> 01:19:50,817
it like a job. So it's exciting.
1783
01:19:51,721 --> 01:19:56,135
Yeah. Good stuff. Well I'll be excited to
hear how that goes and ~ maybe we'll have
1784
01:19:56,135 --> 01:19:59,627
to have your wife on here in a year or two
and she can tell us how she's grown that
1785
01:19:59,627 --> 01:20:01,229
business and what it's doing now.
1786
01:20:01,229 --> 01:20:02,229
So
1787
01:20:01,876 --> 01:20:03,366
I would love for that to happen.
1788
01:20:03,366 --> 01:20:04,847
There's one more thing
1789
01:20:04,584 --> 01:20:05,584
Ha
1790
01:20:04,847 --> 01:20:09,047
I would share, and it's it's a very common
mistake that people of any every
1791
01:20:09,047 --> 01:20:12,018
any kind of business make. All of the
advertising,
1792
01:20:12,018 --> 01:20:15,241
and like literally this afternoon I'm
gonna be talking with you know those print
1793
01:20:15,241 --> 01:20:17,491
ad people about changing the ads,
1794
01:20:17,491 --> 01:20:22,693
refreshing the the ads. The current ads
are all about like we do grout,
1795
01:20:22,693 --> 01:20:25,534
we do tile, we do this. And
1796
01:20:25,534 --> 01:20:31,651
Nobody buys grout. Like they buy a
sparkling refreshed bathroom that's cost
1797
01:20:31,651 --> 01:20:33,573
effective because they don't have to do
complete remodel.
1798
01:20:33,573 --> 01:20:35,735
You know, nobody buys plumbing.
1799
01:20:35,735 --> 01:20:40,050
You know, they buy you know, pipes that
flow and that don't stink.
1800
01:20:40,050 --> 01:20:42,502
You know, like there's when you sell the
features,
1801
01:20:42,502 --> 01:20:43,764
you're a commodity.
1802
01:20:44,314 --> 01:20:47,408
When you sell the benefits, the reason why
someone actually wants
1803
01:20:47,408 --> 01:20:50,453
to do the regrouting, the reason why
someone actually wants to,
1804
01:20:50,453 --> 01:20:53,087
you know, do the plumbing, wants to do the
electrical,
1805
01:20:53,087 --> 01:20:55,731
it just makes the sale so much easier
because then you're talking
1806
01:20:55,731 --> 01:20:57,463
the customer's language instead of your
language.
1807
01:20:57,463 --> 01:21:00,277
Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff.
1808
01:20:59,374 --> 01:21:00,846
So that's what we're doing and it's
exciting.
1809
01:21:01,940 --> 01:21:06,087
Awesome. Well this is a question I ask of
every single guest.
1810
01:21:06,087 --> 01:21:08,951
are you a person of a particular faith
tradition?
1811
01:21:08,951 --> 01:21:11,736
And if so, how has that affected your
leadership?
1812
01:21:12,499 --> 01:21:18,292
Yeah. So the answer is yes. And I have a ~
an unusual path
1813
01:21:18,432 --> 01:21:22,373
to ~ to spirituality. But ~ you know,
1814
01:21:22,373 --> 01:21:25,434
I was raised Jewish and I loved being
Jewish growing up.
1815
01:21:25,434 --> 01:21:31,065
But when I was sixteen I you know followed
a path to to atheism
1816
01:21:31,065 --> 01:21:33,075
and that hyper rationality that we talked
about.
1817
01:21:33,075 --> 01:21:34,075
And
1818
01:21:33,997 --> 01:21:37,419
But then, you know, I was attracted to
China and East Asia and
1819
01:21:37,419 --> 01:21:41,591
I learned about Buddhism and then I
learned about Taoism and these ideas
1820
01:21:41,611 --> 01:21:47,484
of ~ you know these Asian ideas East Asian
ideas of non attachment that ~ you know,
1821
01:21:47,484 --> 01:21:49,075
there's all this stuff that's happening in
our lives.
1822
01:21:49,075 --> 01:21:51,546
But and you should be fully engaged,
1823
01:21:51,546 --> 01:21:54,017
you should want things. But, you know,
1824
01:21:54,017 --> 01:21:56,999
just because you lost a game doesn't mean
that should ruin your day.
1825
01:21:57,721 --> 01:22:00,113
You know, just because you're you didn't
get a cell,
1826
01:22:00,113 --> 01:22:02,535
you know, doesn't mean that it should ruin
your day.
1827
01:22:02,535 --> 01:22:05,718
And you know, I mentioned that my now ex
wife,
1828
01:22:05,718 --> 01:22:07,639
you know, fell into this deep depression.
1829
01:22:07,639 --> 01:22:12,543
And as part of the depression she had this
~ debilitating insomnia that lasted
1830
01:22:12,543 --> 01:22:15,525
for a couple of years. for two years she
barely got out of bed.
1831
01:22:15,525 --> 01:22:19,308
And she was so desperate for anything that
would provide some relief.
1832
01:22:19,308 --> 01:22:23,721
And a friend of ours mentioned that we go
to this four-day retreat to
1833
01:22:23,721 --> 01:22:26,633
~ learn this meditation technique from a
Hindu mystic.
1834
01:22:26,633 --> 01:22:30,455
And yeah, I went with her just to support
her and she did it for like
1835
01:22:30,735 --> 01:22:33,418
she did the meditation technique for about
a week but I kept doing it and
1836
01:22:33,418 --> 01:22:37,962
I still do it to this day. And every
morning I do a minimum of an hour
1837
01:22:38,283 --> 01:22:42,085
of yoga and meditation. there was a time
when I was doing it for as much
1838
01:22:42,085 --> 01:22:43,085
as three hours.
1839
01:22:42,706 --> 01:22:45,998
And it just creates this distance between
self and body,
1840
01:22:45,998 --> 01:22:50,351
self and mind. And whenever there's all
this drama that's swirling around me,
1841
01:22:50,351 --> 01:22:52,492
it doesn't ruffle my feathers.
1842
01:22:52,492 --> 01:22:55,774
You know, I c th there's no problems.
1843
01:22:55,774 --> 01:22:58,997
There's only situations to either deal
with or accept.
1844
01:22:59,881 --> 01:23:00,881
Mm.
1845
01:23:00,179 --> 01:23:02,531
And it's something that I've learned to
believe,
1846
01:23:02,531 --> 01:23:04,752
it's something that I've learned to ~ you
know,
1847
01:23:04,752 --> 01:23:06,393
to live that way. That there's no
problems.
1848
01:23:06,393 --> 01:23:08,755
There are only situations. Do they do what
they're accept?
1849
01:23:08,755 --> 01:23:10,835
And that's an incredibly useful business
skill.
1850
01:23:10,835 --> 01:23:14,098
To not get bogged down with all the drama,
1851
01:23:14,098 --> 01:23:18,021
to not get bogged down with the inevitable
setbacks that we
1852
01:23:18,021 --> 01:23:20,542
all encounter in business and in life.
1853
01:23:20,542 --> 01:23:24,235
Just to be able to say life's a curriculum
perfectly designed to work
1854
01:23:24,235 --> 01:23:25,235
out our purpose.
1855
01:23:25,500 --> 01:23:28,251
There are no problems. Just the
situations.
1856
01:23:28,251 --> 01:23:32,774
And then to deal with that. And I never
get bogged down on the weight of it.
1857
01:23:32,774 --> 01:23:36,807
I don't get bogged down with the just all
the distractions.
1858
01:23:36,807 --> 01:23:38,188
Just I know what I believe in,
1859
01:23:38,188 --> 01:23:39,889
know what I'm focused on, and I focus on
it.
1860
01:23:39,889 --> 01:23:42,631
And I don't think I'd be able to do that
if I didn't follow this path.
1861
01:23:42,631 --> 01:23:45,876
i is there anybody that you'd like to see
on this show,
1862
01:23:45,876 --> 01:23:48,000
somebody that has a really unique story,
1863
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:50,694
a really interesting industry that you'd
like to learn more about?
1864
01:23:50,694 --> 01:23:52,755
I sure do. well there's three people.
1865
01:23:52,755 --> 01:23:57,055
I would love for you not yet, but in a
year I would love for you to have my wife
on.
1866
01:23:57,055 --> 01:24:02,459
And for her to tell her journey from
corporate lawyer to grout doctor,
1867
01:24:02,459 --> 01:24:04,920
and what she's learned along the way and
how it's impacted her life.
1868
01:24:04,920 --> 01:24:06,581
what a great episode that would be.
1869
01:24:06,581 --> 01:24:08,562
But there's two people who would be
fascinating.
1870
01:24:08,562 --> 01:24:11,963
One is that friend of mine I mentioned who
has that chimney sweep business.
1871
01:24:11,963 --> 01:24:13,764
he's ~ he's awesome.
1872
01:24:12,999 --> 01:24:13,999
that'd be great, yeah.
1873
01:24:13,977 --> 01:24:19,300
And then I have another friend who has a
large contracting business,
1874
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:21,882
you know, twenty, thirty million dollars
contracting business.
1875
01:24:21,882 --> 01:24:24,734
And ~ he's not a contractor. You know,
1876
01:24:24,734 --> 01:24:25,734
he could barely swing a hammer.
1877
01:24:25,685 --> 01:24:30,008
But he created this business around you
know managing the people who do
1878
01:24:30,809 --> 01:24:34,131
in a really spectacular way. Also through
1879
01:24:34,411 --> 01:24:36,952
what he calls the his joy f his joy
formula,
1880
01:24:36,952 --> 01:24:39,394
which I I don't remember off the top of my
head,
1881
01:24:39,394 --> 01:24:45,464
but ~ it's basically about ~ just removing
the things that frustrate people
1882
01:24:45,464 --> 01:24:49,299
and get in their way, finding what what
you know what what what they care about
1883
01:24:49,979 --> 01:24:55,221
and giving it to him. His family motto
which they say every time after dinner
1884
01:24:55,622 --> 01:25:00,109
is fun, fun fun. He's just a really cool
guy and I think you'd enjoy talking to
him.
1885
01:25:00,109 --> 01:25:01,585
And I'd be happy to introduce you.
1886
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,171
Yeah. man, that'd be great. I'll we'll
touch base offline,
1887
01:25:05,171 --> 01:25:06,601
see if you can make an introduction.
1888
01:25:06,601 --> 01:25:10,543
but I I really appreciate you taking the
time to meet with us today.
1889
01:25:10,543 --> 01:25:15,704
~ you have a a lot of wisdom, a unique
perspective to business and corporate
values,
1890
01:25:15,704 --> 01:25:17,795
and I think our listeners are gonna get a
lot out of it.
1891
01:25:17,795 --> 01:25:21,336
So thank you for giving us your time and
sharing your knowledge and experience.
1892
01:25:22,131 --> 01:25:24,318
It was Fun Erick. I love the good that you
do in the world.
1893
01:25:24,618 --> 01:25:29,443
Well, thank you. And thank you guys for
joining us here on From the Ground Up
Show.
1894
01:25:29,443 --> 01:25:31,845
again, help me out. Like, share,
1895
01:25:31,845 --> 01:25:34,027
follow, subscribe on social media,
1896
01:25:34,027 --> 01:25:35,849
on your favorite podcast platform,
1897
01:25:35,849 --> 01:25:38,552
or on YouTube. if you hit that auto
download button,
1898
01:25:38,552 --> 01:25:42,336
that helps us out a lot. And don't forget
to check out our merch store,
1899
01:25:42,336 --> 01:25:45,078
shop dot from the groundup show dot com.
1900
01:25:45,078 --> 01:25:47,871
Until next time, keep grinding.