Building Ninety: 10 Years Through the Eyes of Our First FTE — feat. Christine Watts

WEBVTT
00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.040
Good morning, Christine.
00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:08.240
Morning.
00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:10.560
Well, this is uh this is fun.
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:28.559
I guess we're gonna do uh a number of 10-year anniversary uh podcasts with uh a few of the folks who've helped us from almost the very beginning uh get from uh that moment to where we are today.
00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:35.359
And uh you as employee, full-time employee number one are the perfect place to start.
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:37.439
Yeah, I'm excited about it.
00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:39.439
It's been a journey.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.759
It has been a it has been a hell of a journey.
00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:55.359
Um so so speaking of, so everybody has a sense for how long you've been on this journey and how it started, um, we can start with one of two places you get to decide.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:59.359
We can either start from the very beginning, right?
00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:28.159
Um, and sort of uh the you know, the the moment you were introduced to 90 and sort of the thinking, or uh, and this may be more helpful because it'll give some perspective to folks, if you could do an brief overview of the various roles that you've had over the almost 10 years now, because that's um right.
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:44.319
That in itself, I think, will set a really interesting um overview of all the things that go into what you'll share later on.
00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:45.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:01:45.680 --> 00:01:48.959
So I I came in and my background was in marketing.
00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:56.239
So I came in as marketing and client success, thinking I'd get rid of the client success side once we scaled a bit more.
00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:01.200
Um, but was focused in those primary areas, I guess, for a while.
00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:08.080
But as we ended up growing, I dropped the marketing side and came fully on to client success.
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:13.680
So I grew the client success department and the product department as head of product.
00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.639
And then I moved into chief of staff.
00:02:16.800 --> 00:02:24.240
And then after chief of staff, I became head of professional services once we decided we wanted to start that department.
00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:27.039
So lots of variety there.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:35.439
And it's crazy because I feel like the role titles and departments don't even like feel like they fully encompass it.
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:43.599
Because it like my had my when Randy, our first head of engineering, got here, he was like, I feel like you're kind of head of engineering.
00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:53.520
I'm like, I shouldn't be, but it feels like that sometimes because you're just being scrappy and trying to like get things done and communicate with everyone on what the objectives are.
00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:54.479
Yeah, yeah.
00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:55.439
I mean, it yeah.
00:02:55.599 --> 00:03:17.520
So it when I think about it, I think of, you know, it's funny because while you did come on to help us with marketing, you know, the first and correct me if I'm wrong here, but the first I want to say two, three, four years, all we did was us like spend 500 bucks a month on on Facebook.
00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:18.960
Literally, yeah.
00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:23.120
And we really didn't do anything, quote unquote, like marketing.
00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.400
We didn't there was just there was almost zero marketing, right?
00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:30.719
Yeah, we I mean we really didn't have to do much.
00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:58.400
I think one, we were trying to like prove we deserved to exist within like the the base and the niche that we had, but we had such a product market fit with that base where once we were able to convince people that they should use software instead of spreadsheets or writing things up on a whiteboard, like there wasn't much need to like market or sell because there we were just using the implementer community like so heavily, I would say.
00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:12.800
And we were so ingrained in that because of you and Chris White and all of like our kind of like early, really advocates, I would say that were implementers and like trying to push the envelope in terms of like what people are doing with EOS.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.159
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:32.240
And and so really early on, I mean, in the beginning we had, you know, which I I affectionately refer to as our two, you know, college group college um in college in-college engineers who I didn't even know were in college at the time.
00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:32.720
Yeah.
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:34.959
Uh good old uh Eban and Sven.
00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:44.160
And then um, and then you kind of helped me help them figure out what to focus on from a product perspective.
00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:56.720
And then because you were getting lots of feedback from our our our customers, um, you know, you and I would sit, I don't know, you know, it feels like it was probably kind of quarterly, right?
00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.959
But we just go over the list of everything that our customers were telling us we had to do.
00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:04.800
And we were just sort of, you know, you and I were, I won't even say negotiating, I think.
00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:07.199
95% of the time you're like, we just need to do this.
00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:08.879
And I'm like, okay, let's just do it.
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:09.360
Yeah.
00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:15.920
And that was the first, how many years do you think that that's kind of how we built the company?
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:16.399
Yeah.
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:28.160
I mean, I it it was definitely years because I would say it even went into like 2020 and beyond where we were really doing that because we were just like responding to the needs of the market.
00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:28.560
Yeah.
00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:48.800
And what was so hard about the early days is because like people don't understand it today, but there was really an aversion to using software in level 10 meetings, in quarterly sessions, in all of these places where now people just like put out their phone, record everything, things happen automatically, right?
00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:52.000
Like, like there was an aversion to using technology.
00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:54.800
And so we really had to overcome that.
00:05:55.040 --> 00:06:04.720
And so early days of product, we saw a need and our customers were asking for something, but we would still need to go and get things approved.
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:05.839
I'll never forget it.
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:09.120
But like putting the notes field on the scorecard.
00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:10.800
Yeah, people were asking about it.
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:12.480
I can do this if I use Excel.
00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:16.720
Like, yes, you can, but we had to like have a meeting with EOS.
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:22.560
And EOS said no, because if you're putting a number in, you own it and you should remember why it's that number.
00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:28.079
Like, I wish I had a worse memory so that I could like forget some of these things that happen.
00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:36.720
But it's like that was the level of detail that we had on every single feature.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:43.920
And I there were some things where I could talk to three people during the day, I could turn my head and tell EBAN to update it.
00:06:44.000 --> 00:07:02.000
And then we had something that was working better or a bug fixed, and like we had a really quick feedback loop, but then other things that felt like they should be so simple couldn't be because of the nature of like how the industry was and how like we had to move through and do some of that product development work.
00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:03.920
Oh, you're being so polite right now.
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:10.720
I am so we so we we but it's this is our story, and right, it is what it is.
00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:11.120
Yeah.
00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:21.759
Um and I think we can represent it factually as opposed to embellishing or having a bunch of negative emotions with it, because I don't have any negative emotions with the with it.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:35.839
Um personally, in terms of the uh in in terms of you know, sort of phase one or chapter one of the company, and and what um, you know, I I think people you know probably should appreciate is as you were alluding to, right?
00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:45.920
I mean, EOS uh basically uh approved everything we did, um, either marketing-wise or product-wise.
00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:54.800
And so every single change that, you know, uh was you know, I mean, literally, I mean, every everything, right?
00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:56.639
It was it was it was crazy.
00:07:56.800 --> 00:08:05.680
And so um, you know, everything that our clients would ask us to do, we'd have to go back to EOS on numerous occasions.
00:08:05.920 --> 00:08:08.240
Uh it was a no.
00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:12.079
I mean, no seemed like the easy answer to almost everything.
00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:17.680
And so then you'd have to, you know, escalate and then you'd have to negotiate.
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:28.720
And and there were some tense moments where uh, you know, as an example, Chris got pretty upset uh with uh with with EOS that I'm like, look, you know, we we just gotta figure this out.
00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:30.560
And so I tried really hard.
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:37.519
Um one time over the years, I got kind of, I mean, you were there, right?
00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:37.840
Right.
00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:39.440
And I just said, that's not fair.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:40.639
That's not fair, right?
00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:46.320
I got I got kind of emotional about what they what they you know said.
00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:55.440
Um and you know, to be fair, as you pointed out, they they had a very strong point of view that there should be no technology in the session room.
00:08:55.519 --> 00:09:02.799
They had a very strong point of view that every single thing that we did was going to have an impact on their brand.
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:04.720
And I and I respect that, right?
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:15.919
Um and everything that we did was going to, in some regard, um, either affirm or contradict sort of you know what EOS Pure is.
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:34.480
And um, and so you know, this was sort of the wild, wild west in terms of trying to figure out how to uh bring technology into the world of business building as seen by the world of EOS.
00:09:35.039 --> 00:10:38.159
And um, and and it wasn't just you know, wasn't just sort of you know EOS worldwide like this, it was a bunch of peep personalities, and then you had the implementers and their personalities, and so it was this, it was it was it was a beautiful mess in a lot of ways, and and I think we sat in that beautiful mess, as you said, um certainly in 2017, certainly in 2018, certainly in 2019, even in 2020 when we entered into COVID, because all of a sudden now, you know, the uh the the world, the universe, right, um virus pushed us all into having no um um no choice but to leverage technology to make sure that we're all on the same page, you know, uh heading in the same direction at the same pace, etc.
00:10:38.639 --> 00:11:03.279
And so I I think, and I'd be curious if from your perspective, I I I think that's when it feels like it's impossible not to try to figure out how to surf the marriage of the operating system and how technology can support it.
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:05.440
Yeah, I I think you're so right.
00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:13.360
That was like a really critical turning point and to do like a very abbreviated version of that history.
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:26.960
I know you guys were building beta version of the product in 2016, and I think I was like interviewing and deciding around like October, November of 2016, and then joined January 1 of 17.
00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:29.279
And we had a beta product.
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:45.279
We had we took it for paying clients that spring of 2017, and it was like primarily like your clients, Chris White's clients, like a few, like I want to say like 50 or so early adopters of the platform.
00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:48.480
And it was under traction, spelled within X.
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.639
And so it wasn't an EOS license product initially.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.960
It was just the tools.
00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:57.919
It said meetings instead of level 10 meetings.
00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:02.000
Um, and we were trying to figure out like what we wanted to do license agreement-wise.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:03.919
It was kind of like a net new world.
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:05.519
So there wasn't anything standard.
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:10.240
But by the time we hit fall of 2018, obviously we'd gotten a ton of feedback.
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:13.679
Obviously, more implementers were saying they'd use us if we were licensed.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:14.720
So we did do that.
00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.080
And at that time is when we changed our name to 90.
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:18.399
Yeah.
00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:38.480
And so then as 90, like we're going through 18 and 19 with all of these like product struggles, even on the marketing side, like, yeah, we weren't spending money, but even releasing like a blog, we had to go through and get that approved and like sit in a meeting with them and like read through it together, and they would change a word here or there.
00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:42.639
So, like, this is all of the minutiae through like 2018, 2019.
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:51.919
And then finally, when 2020 hit, our clients were reaching out to us and saying, if we didn't have this, we would be scrambling right now.
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:57.759
Like, because everything is digital, we can actually still work and we're moving faster than our competitors.
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:00.879
And we're getting all of this really good proactive feedback.
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:10.240
And then, meanwhile, and we were so nervous we were gonna lose companies because people were gonna be trying to cut costs, but people were like, this is the one thing I have to have.
00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:21.120
And then on the flip side, we were getting such an inbound in because now everyone is trying to like go have remote meetings and go do all of these things differently than what they'd done before.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.320
And so we're getting that influx of new customers too.
00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.200
And we were able to do so many things in the product we've been fighting for.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:35.759
We didn't have quarterly meetings or annual planning or focus day, all of those kind of things.
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:40.399
And we got approval from EOS to do it because COVID hit.
00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:45.759
And this is like probably right away, you know, in like April or something like that.
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.039
And we were like, hurry up, we have to do it right now.
00:13:49.200 --> 00:14:00.080
And I think McGregor literally didn't sleep for like a weekend or a week and just got the whole thing done because we were so worried that they were gonna turn their head and say, yeah, never mind.
00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.960
And so we got it done and we got it released.
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:08.159
I mean, probably within seven days because we were, we were just so frantic.
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:24.879
Like we have this ability to actually release product that people have been asking us for because like now the outside other people are finally seeing the value of having something digital and having something that can be accessed from anywhere.
00:14:25.039 --> 00:14:26.559
So I think you're right.
00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:33.120
Like 2020 was really that kind of tipping point for us where like the community actually saw it.
00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:33.759
Yeah.
00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:38.240
And it was uh, I mean, uh it seems so long ago now, right?
00:14:38.480 --> 00:14:38.960
I know.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:40.799
It feels like a lifetime.
00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:49.039
But you know, I can't remember whether it was you or Cole or Spencer, right?
00:14:49.440 --> 00:15:02.399
But uh we had a small team doing client success and sporting all that, and uh and we started like the city of New Orleans was running on 90, right?
00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:03.600
Which is like, what?
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:11.200
And the and the Bahama Ministry of Tourism, and I remember all these like crazy, you're like, you gotta be kidding me, kind of things that were going on then.
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:12.559
And it was wild.
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:35.519
And and and is you remember we anybody who said um they were struggling, because I had clients that, you know, what one of my clients, if you remember, you probably remember this one, um, but they were uh a food provider to like a significant number of school districts in Ohio.
00:15:36.720 --> 00:15:43.360
And I wanna I I think they were not just Cleveland, but they were like Cleveland, Akron, um, Cincinnati.
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.639
I mean, they were like one of the biggest food service providers.
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:47.039
Yeah.
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:48.240
Guess what, right?
00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:49.600
School's gone, right?
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:54.799
For you know, in school um uh uh learning is gone.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:05.120
And so they basically went from I mean, they were well into the 100 million plus range and basically went to zero um in terms of revenue.
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:16.720
And we're like anybody who calls up, and you know, we they didn't call us, they hit us through intercom, but anybody who reached out to us and said they're struggling right now, we're like, we get it.
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.080
It's you know, it's it's you don't have to pay for it.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:20.639
Yeah.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.720
You know, I I I can't remember you.
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:23.600
I'm sure you can.
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:26.879
We said, like, I don't know if it's 60 days, 90 days.
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:28.240
It is three months.
00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:34.320
And we said, if you reach out and you want to cancel and it's because of costs, like we're just gonna give it to you free for three months.
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.960
And at that time, you don't know, you're taking it weekly at a time.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:41.759
And so we're like, in three months, we kept them all on a spreadsheet and we're like, we'll reach back out.
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.159
And if you need more time, like you're gonna get more time.
00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:44.639
Yeah.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:50.000
And it was it was tens at most of companies that reached out for that.
00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:59.200
Cause again, like I said, everyone was so like, this is the thing, this is the one thing I feel like I actually like need this is providing the most value back to me.
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:00.559
So yeah.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:02.080
It was crazy, right?
00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:02.559
Yeah.
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:09.200
And uh, I mean, to this day, I don't know about you, but COVID's for a blur in my head.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:09.759
Yeah.
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.359
Just a blur, right?
00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:26.000
And uh the business side of it, the personal side, actually, I'm I I kind of remember it more just because, you know, we I've got, you know, one son, and and you know, and so me and Cole and Beth were all, you know, together.
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.240
And so it was a it was a wonderful time for us as a as a family to be together.
00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:35.359
And and we were in the keys, so it was easy to get out and and run around on the water and do stuff.
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:42.880
So um, so from a personal perspective, I look back at it and it was just it was it was quality time for us as a family.
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:58.559
Um but I then I think about some of the webinars that we did during that period of time with our customers and talking about, you know, how we're trying to support them as as you're in this sort of this this COVID moment.
00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:08.720
Um and so I I can sit there and remember us, you know, you know, having those those, yeah, I hate to say webinars because it doesn't I probably do the right justice, right?
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:13.519
But just those those town of town hall events we're all trying to figure out how to help one another.
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:29.279
And um and just uh you know, to the point you were making, um there was a there was I maybe I'm wrong on this, but I I feel like we were so connected to our customer base through all that.
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:34.880
I mean, you know, in a in a in a in a really warm and cool way.
00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:50.000
We were just like helping support one another and and um and people were super appreciative and you know they were letting you know other people know if they were struggling with this stuff, you should come on over and take a look.
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:55.759
So I think we were growing it almost 200% during that period.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:06.720
Um, and it was predominantly just people who appreciated that we were helping them navigate, you know, working from home.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:07.440
Yeah.
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:20.079
And I I honestly like look back and think one of the more proud things that I've built here is that people still come to us and are like, you have the best people, you have the best support.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.160
I can always get a hold of somebody.
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:33.839
And I think like that, that feeling that was kind of like cultivated at that time and before, and like Michelle was like a huge part of this too, of just like, we're always here and we're always gonna be helpful.
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.720
And if we don't have the answer, we're gonna find the answer.
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:43.279
And I think every person that we've pulled in that's customer-facing, like we've really instilled that in.
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:57.119
And I feel really good that that's still like a very positive reputation that we have to this day that we're real people and we're we're the genuinely here to like help you and connect you to other people and all of those things.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:01.680
So yeah, it's you know, it's we you and I have never had this conversation, right?
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:03.519
But so we're gonna have it right now.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.480
It'll be interesting.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:25.599
I think you and I both, without ever really having a conversation around it, deeply believe that the customer experience was the most important thing because we knew that you know, r building a company, running a company is hard.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:26.720
It just is, right?
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.119
Yeah.
00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:35.680
And I knew it from my perspective, having invested in over a hundred and sat on 30 plus boards and built several companies.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:48.480
And so I had my own reasons for why I sort of, you know, believed what I believed and and and believed, and I and I taught, you know, well before I was a part of the US world and taught what a US teaches.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:54.799
Um, I always thought that, you know, every business, you have to kind of decide on what your your unique value proposition is.
00:20:54.880 --> 00:21:10.480
And some people lean towards, you know, like the lowest total cost, which you know could be, you know, Walmart or you know, even Amazon is is there, but part of when they think about costs, they think about you know just the cost to go get something, right?
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:17.599
Um so you know, Walmart and Amazon are you know lowest total cost kind of um value proposition.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.000
And then Apple innovation, right?
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:21.440
Pretty straightforward stuff.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:38.720
Nordstrom was uh always about customer service, and then you know, and that's kind of a Michael Tracy model, and then I added one more to it um uh many, many years ago, which was um some people uh it's all about sort of uh status and exclusivity, right?
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:45.519
So Chanel and Gucci and Rolex and Patik or Patak or however you pronounce the watch.
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:55.200
Um and uh and and and we just always, I think, just believed in leading with customer service.
00:21:55.839 --> 00:22:03.759
And you and I never like we need we oh it's almost like like I said, we I don't think we've ever had a literal conversation around this.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:07.200
We just both deeply believed in that.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.039
And you led as the head of customer success.
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:12.480
You led with that.
00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.359
But we've never actually really had a deep conversation around this.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.000
Yeah.
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:25.200
And I think it's because it's it was not needed because we were both already aligned to it.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:32.640
So I can remember a world where we were talking about, you know, those value points and like which one are we going to prioritize most and all of those things.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:38.799
Um, but we didn't have to get into it because it's we know like customer experience is number one.
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:46.400
And I think even now, as like more is getting automated, more can happen for the client without a human needing to be involved.
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:56.240
Like we have an entire person dedicated to make sure that that like automated response and bot is performing and optimized and a good experience for them.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:03.039
And every day we have a real person that's sitting there too and able to take and feel those incoming things coming in too.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:07.119
And so I think our team has always had like a really high level of care.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:28.799
And even Taylor Paletta, who like leads our support team now, I attribute to like a ton of she's meshing a lot of the automated and AI world and like way that we can scale and provide a really good experience with being human and having the empathy and having the real people there alongside to like help and give it the touch when you need to.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:38.160
So I feel like that that has definitely set us apart and I think continues to in just the level of care that we provide people.
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:50.720
Yeah, it will, and it's not gonna, you know, I I don't know, as long as I'm around and I I appoint people who my successors, you know, sort of believe in continuing to carry the torch.
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:54.559
Uh that's we lead with with with customer experience.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:24:06.319
Um and and and in particular, right, with uh with with doing everything you know we we can to uh take care of them.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:09.759
And it doesn't mean we're perfect by any stretch of the imagination, right?
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:16.319
Um but um but because you know there's lots of areas that I think we do much better in.
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:26.640
But yeah, but but you know, in in like customer experience, even getting down into sort of the you know, the user experience in the software as opposed to the customer support experience, right?
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:34.960
So um, but that's just that's who we are, and and it and like I said, it's it's it's I think it's who we have to be forever.
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:44.640
Um so I appreciate the fact that you did such a great job of setting us up to honor that commitment.
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:52.160
And uh, as you said, Taylor's doing a great job to continue to honor it, and we're leveraging you know technology to continue to honor it.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:59.680
And so it doesn't doesn't mean it's just always about the human in terms of a human being there for customer support.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.440
It's about making sure that we're doing everything we can to take care of them.
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:05.680
And I forget what didn't we start?
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:14.160
I think remember we started talking about um my desire um to get to 24-7 as fast as we could.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:24.000
And we got to seven days a week, Sunday being not 24-7, but that was probably coming online.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.640
They're running their meetings, it's Monday morning for them.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.680
So yeah, it's like we we wanted to be there.
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:31.920
Um, and so it's a real thing.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:32.559
Yeah.
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.200
When do you think we when did we when did we hit that?
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.079
Do you remember?
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.519
It was pretty early.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.559
Yeah, it was I don't know.
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:45.119
I mean, definitely years ago at this point, maybe 2020, maybe 21.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:56.160
But yeah, it's it's also interesting to like look back and think about like those moments of connection that people really remember.
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:03.119
Like even this year at the EOS conference, I still have people that come up to me and tell me about how they remember.
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:08.799
You know, we kind of stopped at 2020 with our history, but obviously, like we were getting a lot of momentum.
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:13.920
EOS worldwide finally saw, like, hey, like this is a real thing, like software is great.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:19.119
And so in 21, they decided, like, hey, we should take a stab at doing software.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.720
And we had that conversation with them.
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:21.680
I'll never forget.
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:28.559
This was like one of the huge product pivots we had to make is when they said, you need a plan B.
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:29.839
They told us that.
00:26:30.079 --> 00:26:31.920
And so you need a plan B.
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.359
We're gonna make our own software and we don't know what's gonna happen with the license.
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:44.319
And so we spent that, I think, summer of 21, like kind of scrambling and saying, all right, well, we've got a, we have this agreement now.
00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.839
We don't know if it's gonna be here.
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:47.359
We need to pivot the business.
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:54.079
And so we're starting to think about like, okay, we can still serve as EOS customers, but is there like a configurable template option?
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.799
And so we're going through all of this ideation.
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:05.839
And like through all of that, like this conversation we're having, we're trying to be really transparent with our client base, tell them we're here to support them.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:20.240
And I still have people to this day come up to me and tell me about like that, those series of events that we ran where we were going through here's where we are right now, here's some of the changes we're gonna make, here's how we're still gonna support you through having a configurable template.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:22.400
What does this really mean for your business?
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:24.079
Um, people remember that.
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:30.559
And I think I it's a testament to like we we handled a really uncertain situation.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:37.759
And I look back on that with pride and like how we communicated and like worked with people.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:48.400
And um, like obviously it kind of all things came full circle and they tried to launch their product, they didn't let go of our license agreement because software is difficult.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:54.559
Um, so they realized they still wanted to work with us, and now we've got our um extended uh agreement now.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.000
And so it's it's nice that we kind of like stuck in there.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:10.559
And I think to your point, of you were always really good about um being like being a good person through that, like being like, I'm not gonna take it out on you.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:13.119
I'm I'm like, we're gonna like continue to work together.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:21.440
I don't know the best way to put that, but just like agreeable in those moments where it could have been easy to uh burn a bridge.
00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:26.960
And so we're still still able to have like this great relationship and license agreement and all those things.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:34.720
So it's nice to see it all kind of come full circle after all of those different like bumps and adjustments and things we had to do.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:35.359
Yeah.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:41.359
I, you know, I I I I know I've said this before on, you know, some older episode or something.
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:49.839
But I, you know, remember when we were going through that, and you know, it it started with we're either gonna buy you or take away your license.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:50.240
Yeah.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:29:35.599
Um, and then, you know, they went and spent a couple of years and we knew what they were doing, and then they then they you know, one morning you wake up and there's an email and says, uh, you know, this is your 90-day notice, and and then, you know, a lot of we had to be, you know, let everybody know what was going on in the community, uh, of implementers, and uh obviously the US was letting them know and and obviously with our customer base and and uh and so you know when we were prepared because as you said, somewhere somewhere between that first conversation, which is we were either gonna buy you or take away your license, and getting the notice, uh, we did have that famous um you guys have to have a plan B conversation.
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.920
Um and uh we're like, yeah, well, we know, all right, we're we're working on it.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:43.920
And then you said we were working on being configurable and and all that good stuff.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:55.920
Um but you know, I bring it up because there are new members to the EOS implementer world who don't know that story, right?
00:29:56.319 --> 00:30:05.839
And and and they're like, well, you guys, you know, you're you're not a hundred percent EOS, and we're like, yeah, that was because there was this history here.
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:23.759
Yeah, they said you gotta do plan B, and then we did plan B, and and then uh we have, you know, I think uh what maybe close to 4,000 companies who run on a non-EOS version of the of the software platform.
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:32.960
And so it's like, you know, obviously we we're you know, we once again we're we're trying to do our best to be you know have high trust relationships with all of our ideal stakeholders.
00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:38.720
And so we have 4,000 people that aren't aren't running on uh 4,000 companies that aren't running on EOS.
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:50.720
And so, you know, uh to sit here and and you know and say that you know you guys for some implementers to to not understand that story, you know, it you know, you wish everybody did.
00:30:50.880 --> 00:30:51.839
I understand why they don't.
00:30:52.000 --> 00:31:01.200
There's 860, you know, or so implementers and a bunch of them have joined since uh since we went through that experience together.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:11.519
And you know, and I and as you said, you know, my my perspective is and I'm far from perfect, you know that as well as anybody in the world.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:18.559
Um, you know, my perspective is let's you know, let's figure out where exactly we're supposed to be, learning the lessons we need to learn.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:37.119
Let's figure out how not to burn bridges, let's figure out how to be the best we can possibly be, be better and better versions of the best versions of ourselves, and and you know, life is long and and uh and you know, and we're gonna figure this out, and you know, it will be what it'll be in all those cliches.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:49.039
But I do remember, and I know I've said this shared this with you and a bunch of people, I remember getting literally yelled at for how we were approaching this because people were like, you should just take your ball and go home.
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:53.519
This is Yeah, they were like, they're treating you so badly, you shouldn't do this.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:59.039
Like it was um, I mean, it's like a real damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:23.839
But I think we were able to kind of like see this other side in a way that said, like, no, we'll keep, you know, doing the work and trying our best and keep our heads down and like able to see like this kind of world we're in now, where like we can have an agreement, we can work together, we can have this be like a huge part of our business without neglecting the other side that we've also created, too.
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:29.200
Yeah, it's it's uh, you know, less is more until it's not.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:37.279
And so you you always love to have everything be as simple as possible, but you know, life is not always as simple as we want it to be.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:41.200
So speaking of of simple, right?
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.519
Um love to hear your perspective.
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.279
Once again, this is a thing that you and I haven't really ever chatted much about.
00:32:47.680 --> 00:33:04.799
But besides the back and forth and back and forth uh with with EOS, um, because it did, it's not only like the first version of its software crashed and burned, the second version of its software wasn't particularly um uh great either.
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:09.440
And so they ended up selling it and now they're completely out of out of that business.
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:26.319
Besides sort of that part of our story, um, you know, what's your sense for how the product and the company and our customers, you know, how has have things changed a lot over the 10 years?
00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:36.799
Or, you know, if you sort of think about it out loud, how, you know, it through those three lenses, the company, the product, and the customers, and you choose to start with it, whichever one you want.
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:38.559
What has or hasn't changed?
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:39.519
What's notable?
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:48.000
I think from a customer perspective, I see more and more people trying to go deeper.
00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:54.240
I don't remember that being as much of a conversation in early days, like, hey, this is for my leadership team.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.519
I'm working with an implementer.
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:59.359
It was all kind of, you know, very set in that way.
00:33:59.519 --> 00:34:05.680
But I see more people trying to pull more teams into it in their company, so rolling out throughout.
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:08.639
And I see more people trying to do it themselves.
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:21.920
And so, like reading the book or hearing from a friend, whatever it is, like however they get exposed to the EOS world and saying, like, oh yeah, I could use a little bit more of that structure in my business without going the implementer route.
00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:29.280
So I feel like from a customer perspective, that's that's one thing I feel like over the years I've seen a big difference in.
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:34.719
What do you have some thoughts on to what to attribute that to?
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:35.920
I don't know.
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:40.000
Um I think it'd be really tough to say.
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:44.800
I think companies are trying to move faster.
00:34:44.960 --> 00:34:49.199
I think they're trying to like understand performance at a deeper level now.
00:34:49.280 --> 00:34:54.719
They're trying to understand like what's a seat, who's the person, what's automated, what's not.
00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:02.480
Like I think, I think there's just a lot more attention to that or like a manager that's also trying to create some structure for their team.
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:04.800
And and we're working with SMBs too.
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:16.159
And so it's one of those things where a lot of times when I'm when I'm talking to a leadership team, it's not like they already have this set way that they do meetings or management or any of that performance in a company.
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:20.320
And so this is kind of like a natural way for them to start thinking about it.
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:31.679
So I don't know if I have like a really like set answer on um like why that would be happening more that now than in early days.
00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:37.840
Can I may I share my perspective and then get your sort of gut reaction to it?
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:45.760
Um, I think generally speaking, and I know you're gonna go, of course you do, once I say this, right?
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:53.360
But I think generally speaking, building a company has become more complex and it's harder, right?
00:35:53.760 --> 00:36:00.880
I think generally speaking, um, especially with and even pre-AI, right?
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:07.280
But generally speaking, with um access to all the stuff everybody has, right?
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:10.800
Um, you know, sort of that age of information.
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:16.480
And now if you really want to understand something, and before with AI, it's even easier, right?
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:16.800
Right.
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:51.519
But if you wanted to understand, you know, sort of the, you know, what it takes to build a good company, you want to understand what it takes to be a good leader, you want to understand what it takes to be, you know, uh good at mentoring people, you want to understand how to build an organization that, you know, uh from a cultural perspective, um, you know, it's just there's uh everybody who's building a company, if they want to become a little more sophisticated for lack of a better expression, um uh they can, right?
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:56.000
There's, I mean, it's just that they have access to, you know, so much, right?
00:36:56.159 --> 00:37:15.760
Whether it's you know all the great stuff that Lincioni's written, or you go back to Drucker, or you go back to, you know, you know, some of the crazy folks that are like not most people don't know, like I love as you know, you know, Elliot Jacks, or you go back even to Deming and you go, you know, it just depends on like what little journey you want to take in terms of understanding stuff.
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:31.119
But you know, when EOS was started, Gino, you know, I I always remember the big idea that you know every single one of us is constantly dealing with a hundred specifically like founders and and business owners, we're dealing like 136 different issues all the time.
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:44.079
And so if you want to strike sort of you know double click in and understand how to do better um with regard to addressing those things, I mean, you know, you can you know it's just there's so much out there.
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:47.679
And uh the beauty of EOS is it simplifies it, right?
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:49.280
That's the beauty of it.
00:37:49.519 --> 00:38:11.039
But um, but I just think generally speaking, uh, you know, because of access to great teachings and stories and educational material, um, not just at the at the at the business owner level, but anybody in the company can access this stuff.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:14.320
And so it's like, hey, you know, why aren't we doing this better?
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:16.239
Yeah, I I totally agree.
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:24.400
And I think as EOS has grown and there's more just like market awareness to that, um I I agree.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:30.800
I I talk to people where like they're a second-time founder and they're like, man, I already made some of these mistakes.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:37.599
And here's like a really simple, clear way that I can clearly communicate to my people too of how we're gonna run the business.
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:41.039
And like, here's a set book they can read to follow these instructions.
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.800
You know, it's like, like you said, I think that is all really simple.
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.960
And they're they're getting the message out there more broadly, I would say.
00:38:49.119 --> 00:38:50.719
So more people are finding it.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:58.960
Um, and you're right, I think the barrier to entry for starting a company, like people are seeing more competition and there's more upstarts and that kind of stuff.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:05.679
So the more you can align people, get them running as quickly as you can, or moving towards the same vision, that kind of stuff.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:07.280
Like people see the value there.
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:11.519
And there's just a lot of like, you said thought leadership around that.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.079
Yeah, and I and and I think it's harder, right?
00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:16.559
Because of all this in in a lot of regards, you know.
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:21.199
You can start, but then to sustain and keep growing and all those things, yeah.
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:29.760
Like Right and you know, you you you know, you're business owner, founder, or whatever, first second generation.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:54.239
You know, if you if you have some decent, if you have good people who care and they have, you know, mild or better ver, you know, um elements of curiosity, you know, I I I think, you know, you've got to be, you know, there's just yeah, I don't want to say you have to be on your toes more, because I don't think that's right, but I think the game is just, like I said, I think the game's a little, a little harder today, and in a good way, right?
00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:54.960
Right.
00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:09.199
Um, because you know, because we're getting, we're getting, you know, we're getting as a as a founder or business owner, right, we're getting pushed on, like, hey, you know, I don't think you're doing this particularly well, and you're like, uh, I uh you know, uh you're right.
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:11.519
And so then it's like, okay, what do I gotta do?
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:25.679
And I, in fact, you know, not to go too far down a rabbit hole, but you know, I was at a uh a SAS of uh SaaS industry event uh two weeks ago or so, and um I was leaving.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:36.320
I don't I didn't tell you a story, so I was leaving and uh waiting for the Uber, and I, you know, sporting the merch.
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:42.480
And uh and this person comes up to me um and uh says, Hey, right?
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:43.679
You're Mark Abbott, right?
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.280
And I yeah, and uh it's like hey, I read your stuff, I love it.
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:59.199
Um, and then another person was standing there, and so all of a sudden, you know, we started getting this conversation about leadership, and then someone asked a question, and I said, you know, here's you know my perspective, and a bunch of people are sitting around.
00:40:59.280 --> 00:41:03.199
Um, and and this guy walks up and he goes, I a hundred percent agree with that.
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:16.800
And we're just talking about how as the organizations grow, it's just more complex, you know, go through the stages of development and and the demands on the leaders, just they they they're they it gets it gets higher, right?
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:18.800
Um, and and it gets harder.
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.480
And now the question is, are you going to evolve and become a better leader?
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:26.159
Or are you gonna sort of like, no, I'm I am who I am and I'm gonna sit sit here?
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:37.920
And I said, you know, there's this really interesting tension between where the founder is developmentally and where the senior leadership team is developmentally, and if the founder is, you know, like here, the team's not gonna get any higher.
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.599
But if the founder's trying to go like this, but the team is refusing to change, that's a dynamic as well.
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:48.159
And and uh so anyway, it was uh it was a really interesting conversation.
00:41:48.559 --> 00:41:56.719
I had to get into the Uber and I kind of left everybody wanting more, but then a guy followed up um and uh said, Hey, can you share some stuff with me?
00:41:56.800 --> 00:41:57.679
And so I shared it with him.
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:03.519
And then this morning he sent me a really long, thoughtful email, and he was like pressing on stuff, right?
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:09.280
And and he I think he's he's he's actually he's he's with Replit, right?
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:16.000
And you know, he's sitting there struggling with leadership and and and entrepreneurship and all this kind of stuff.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:27.119
And he sent me this really long, you know, very thoughtful email about, you know, sort of, you know, how how to lead and and and think about leadership in this new age.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:50.000
And so it's just um, you know, as I said, I think this stuff was I think this push for better leadership was taking place before co before AI, but I think with AI now, right, it's it's it's it's really out there.
00:42:50.320 --> 00:43:01.440
And so, you know, to me it's really it's very exciting, but um because I think you know, I believe we evolved for the better, and so I think we're gonna we're gonna have better leadership.
00:43:01.599 --> 00:43:05.119
Not that we have bad leadership, but I mean we're just gonna get better and better at leadership.
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:13.039
And and so within s inside of our companies, I I feel like we're starting to, I don't say starting because I'm not as close as you are anymore at all.
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:16.480
In fact, you're as close as almost anybody running ProServe now, right?
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.280
But I feel like this need to take things to the next level.
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:26.559
Um, you know, is I I think it's real.
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:27.599
Yeah.
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:33.440
And I think I think it's felt by a lot of people, even a company I'm working with right now is a family business.
00:43:33.599 --> 00:43:37.920
And they brought in a president from the outside instead of a family member.
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:46.639
And he came in and he said, it's gonna be really hard the first year, it's gonna be hard the second year, but the third year, it's gonna be, it's gonna be a lot easier.
00:43:46.800 --> 00:43:57.679
And so it's funny how a lot of people, I think, like kind of see that and feel it and know they need to do something differently now, um, just at which pace at which the world moves.
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:01.440
But at the same time, um, I This to Michelle all the time.
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:05.920
I'm like, imagine if we had this stuff back when we started.
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:15.760
I'm like, the amount of times I woke up at five to go to the gym, but then saw my inbox was like a hundred emails and was like, I just gotta knock out 50 of these before I can do anything.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:21.440
You know, it's like, man, I I have it could have saved so much time.
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:22.719
Yeah.
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:23.280
Yeah.
00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:28.880
Well, I mean, especially now with, I mean, uh, you know, we can, it's still not out in GA, right?
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:43.039
But but ask MAS now, yeah, being able to see up and down and across everything that's going on in the company, and it's like, hey, right, there's so much, so much we're gonna do with it.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:45:00.400
Um, it's funny how some people are using he or she, and and I still think we're we're in the it category, but um, but to do with it and um and just you know, like if you wake up in the morning, like you said, and um you say, hey, I I got this 50 stuff going on.
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:02.000
Do I really need to pound this stuff out?
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:07.360
And it's like, no, you don't need to worry about it, or yeah, hey Bob, how about these these five things?
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:11.840
Here's here's here are the five things you need to probably focus on this week.
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:33.760
Um, because these are like you can see throughout the organization, here's where the tension is, and um, and just sort of you know give you a little bit of peace of mind with regard to the moment you're in, what really matters, because the reality is is you know, as a you know, as an individual in our own little space, right, this stuff can overwhelm you, but the reality is it's a long game.
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:45.119
And I I I'm fascinated by the the the new person who came into this client you're you're you're talking about and saying, you know, look, the first year is gonna be hard, the second year is gonna be it's still gonna be hard, but not as hard.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:51.519
And then the third year it's gonna feel it's gonna start to feel like, you know, things are um, you know, this is just the way we do things.
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.400
My words not not his or hers.
00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:02.639
But you know, for a lot of people, hearing that it's gonna take two to three years, that's like whoa, you know?
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:03.519
Yeah.
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:06.079
But they were like, let's do it.
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:08.320
You know, like something has to change.
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:15.920
And like you've got a perspective on how it should change, and backed by, you know, all these hundreds of thousands of other businesses that are doing it.
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:25.039
So I it's um it's been a cool process to be a part of and see like what parts the owner is like still taking a hold of, which parts the president's taking a hold of.
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:25.840
So it's been good.
00:46:26.159 --> 00:46:41.760
Yeah, I'm so, you know, well, you know, as someone who's been here from the very beginning, I'm I'm just I I'm so excited about, you know, the this part of the organization that that you've stood up and and and and you know, it's it's very early innings, right?
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:42.239
Yeah.
00:46:42.480 --> 00:47:04.480
Um, but I, you know, just to be able to be shoulder to shoulder and helping our clients um, you know, sort of develop uh the the competencies and then the confidence in the competence, um and so that they can they can just build better businesses and and and and and help their people build better lives.
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:13.840
And then but to do it, I I don't want to say it's the the 90 way, because that seems right, something seems something seems arrogant about saying that.
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:21.599
But you know, doing it in a manner that's honest as opposed to, you know, you know, like like this person did, right?
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.079
It's it's gonna be two to three years, right?
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:30.159
Um it's you know, don't don't don't say things that are not true, right?
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:30.559
Right.
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:36.480
Don't try to say things that you think's gonna land just because you're worrying about how it lands.
00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:47.840
Um and you know, it's like conversations around uh you know, why does the or why, you know, we we restructured the way we do product and and engineering within the last couple of weeks.
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:53.440
And and the reality is is is that that those changes, not every there change is hard.
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:58.000
And so for some people, um, the changes, you know, makes all the sense in the world.
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:02.000
And then for some other people, especially people that are impacted directly by it, right?
00:48:02.079 --> 00:48:03.039
It kind of sucks.
00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:10.960
But the reality is, you know, the world changes and we got to change and our organization has got to change, and we're dealing with a lot of industries.
00:48:11.280 --> 00:48:23.039
Ours in particular is dealing with a lot, you know, an increasing amount of information, an increasing amount of complexity, um, uh, an increasing amount of opportunity, right?
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:25.599
An increasing amount of competition.
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:36.719
I mean, it's just, it's, you know, it's just you know, a lot of industries, a lot of companies are dealing with, you know, a more complex competitive environment.
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:50.239
And in order to do well with that higher level of competition, that higher level of complexity, you know, your organization um needs to be better run.
00:48:50.960 --> 00:49:06.800
Yeah, or just like willing, willing to adapt to like even another change we've gone through over the last six to nine months is actually adding a sales org because previously we we had onboarding and we had this, you know, stance and philosophy of like, we don't we don't sell, we serve.
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:07.119
Yeah.
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:08.639
And that's always been true.
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.880
You know, of course, you're still kind of selling through that.
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:16.719
But the the real like heart behind it is we're not pushing something or saying something that's not true.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:22.400
Like we're giving the honest, like, this is gonna be hard for this amount of time, and then it'll start to get easier.
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:31.599
And so um, now we've obviously got a sales team and they still like kind of hold that um mentality of like, I don't need to push something just to push something.
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:33.280
I want to do what's right by the client.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:42.719
But we're actually we made those changes and like helping people see like the heart behind it and like who we are is still there, even though like it is a sales team.
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:50.400
Um, I think that like willingness to adapt and change the company and like keep moving things forward is like a big part.
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:56.559
Um, like you said, of like kind of maintaining and continuing to be relevant and successful and all those things.
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:57.280
Yeah.
00:49:57.519 --> 00:50:00.159
So we talked about how the customers have changed.
00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:22.079
And so I guess this the summary is the um the nature, it seems as if our customers see that the nature of, you know, starting and and building and and and systemizing and then integrating and then ultimately um you know having something you pass off to the next generation is just gotten a little bit harder.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.440
Um and we and we can see that in our customer base.
00:50:25.760 --> 00:50:27.039
So that's that's that.
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:30.480
And I said product and and and and company change.
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.000
You know, which would which would you prefer to hit on next?
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.280
You know, how do you think either the product or the company has changed in the last year?
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:41.760
I mean, I think they all kind of follow that similar theme though.
00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:51.920
Like, so as our customers are thinking about how do I expand this in my company or get more value from the information that I'm putting in, like that's how we're trying to evolve the product too.
00:50:52.079 --> 00:50:54.320
How can we connect more things together?
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:56.960
How do my rocks flow into my one-year goals?
00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:01.360
How do I have multiple teams so that each team can have specific one-year goals?
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:07.840
Like, how can I have information shared across the company in a centralized knowledge portal so that everyone has access to that?
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:14.239
And then how can I actually ask our AI, MAS, about that information so it's pulling it all together?
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:26.559
So I think the ways that we're evolving the product are trying to like elevate information and the right information and like how that's shared and worked with across different departments.
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:36.239
Um, I guess is like kind of thematically how I've seen the product change without kind of getting into like the little nitty-gritty things.
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.639
Um and and maybe that holds true for internally too.
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:50.239
Cause like I said, like how we're supporting people through like a really specific sales onboarding process where people can see and demo and experience the product before they join.
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.559
They can work with professional services to get like a more hands-on tactical approach.
00:51:54.639 --> 00:52:00.800
Like we'll work department by department with organizations so that they're getting set up with scorecard and rocks and level 10 meetings.
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:01.760
I I don't know.
00:52:01.920 --> 00:52:15.199
I maybe it kind of all kind of follows that same, like as our clients are adapting and adopting like the new world, like we're just trying to like be the support and like provide things back to them that kind of fit that same narrative.
00:52:15.519 --> 00:52:26.320
Yeah, I think I think I think for the last two years, you know, my perspective has been that we got to be ahead of where our clients are.
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:27.119
Right.
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:50.880
Um, you know, we we we you know, if if if if we're constantly chasing where they are, then all we're doing is um in some respects, you know, we're we're we're we're trying to fix that that is, and a lot of that that is is more that that was, as opposed to really trying to say, hey, you know, this is where the world is going.
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:55.280
We have some confidence in this, and so this is why we're doing the things we're doing.
00:52:55.599 --> 00:53:03.679
And and so that when you run into the things that we think you're gonna start to run into, we're actually here for you to support you through that.
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:03.920
Right.
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:16.000
And I think, you know, the you know, we raised our Series B at the end of, you know, for all practical purposes, at the end of 23, in order to do, you know, start to put AI into the platform.
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:24.400
It took us two and a half years to really get what we wanted to get done, um, done, like big picture-wise.
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:27.280
And so finally it's it's it's it's coming out.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.400
And um, and you know, I took way longer than I ever thought it would.
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:58.000
Um, but you know, the good news is uh, you know, I think we're already starting to see with everybody in the beta that it's like, wow, this is really helping me see things and and and be prepared for things or anticipate and and start to develop some of these, you know, capabilities before it's like super, super um so important that you're now flailing.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:05.599
Um so you know, I think it the the the the uh it's been hard, right, to to get to this place.
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:09.679
Uh as I said, I'm a little I wish we would have been here six months ahead of time.
00:54:09.840 --> 00:54:16.000
But the reality is is that you know, really the the power of AI to really help.
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:34.079
I think Opus 4.5, um which is now plus or minus six months ago, was sort of that that that leap where all of a sudden you really started to get sort of the the the power of AI um uh in in such a manner that you could really use it to help your your the customer.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:44.239
Um and so the reality is, you know, it we had uh while we were working on all this stuff, the market also had to in some respects, or the technology had to catch up, and I think it's finally caught up.
00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:47.199
So, you know, we're exactly where we're supposed to be, right?
00:54:47.440 --> 00:55:05.760
Um so ending on on sort of um we're exactly where we're supposed to be, when you stand back and you think about the 10 years for you, you know, personally and and and and where things are um and the journey you've had.
00:55:07.199 --> 00:55:17.039
If if you had someone close to you who was you 10 years ago, right?
00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:32.000
Asking you about how to think about their career and how to think about um you know the decision knowing everything you know now, right?
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:48.719
Um what would you what would you say are you know a couple of things to sort of just understand, appreciate it, uh you know, be prepared for, right?
00:55:48.880 --> 00:55:49.519
Whatever it is.
00:55:49.840 --> 00:55:58.480
Yeah, I mean that's the interesting thing is like how I don't know if you can be prepared.
00:55:58.719 --> 00:56:08.639
And I think one thing that 90 did that I didn't realize initially was like making you be introspective about yourself.
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:11.679
So I think like through this process, I've learned a lot about myself.
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:25.199
And so, like if I were to go back 10 years from now, like now I know about myself, I love the unknown or like taking on challenges and like doing the thing that's not defined yet.
00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:34.559
And so if other like I've had conversations with other people that are thinking about taking a job or doing a thing, and it's like, well, what what type of person are you?
00:56:34.719 --> 00:56:42.000
Because if you're gonna join a startup or something like that, you have to be kind of really comfortable with that level of ambiguity.
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:54.639
And I know now about myself that I I love it, you know, like that's kind of really where I thrive of like I've got kind of this big mission and we've got to figure out how to get there.
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:56.639
And I think over the last 10 years, right?
00:56:56.719 --> 00:56:59.519
We've we've dealt with external factors and ups and downs.
00:56:59.599 --> 00:57:04.400
We dealt with internal, like like we've dealt with like so many different things.
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:09.119
And so I don't know, like the advice that you'd give to somebody else else is so tough.
00:57:09.199 --> 00:57:25.760
And I think the one thing like I've really taken away is just like the personal aspect of like, who are you and how do you like to work and what do you want out of life and like all of those things I think are such big factors in terms of like if you'll be successful or want to sustain or stay in a job or a place.
00:57:25.920 --> 00:57:35.679
And I think Michelle and I talk about this a lot too, because she's obviously the other one that's been here um alongside me too, um, supporting you initially.
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:42.320
And I feel like we both are this is it's ever changing.
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:47.360
Like we're not, we're never doing the same thing for, you know, two or three years.
00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:54.800
Like we're not doing the same thing for like six months a lot of the time, like like what we just talked about with the over the last few years.
00:57:54.960 --> 00:57:55.599
So yeah.
00:57:55.840 --> 00:58:03.360
It's one of those things where it's like, man, I love that kind of, you know, we're just rolling up our sleeves and figuring it out.
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:06.639
And, you know, whatever is gonna come at us is gonna come at us.
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:10.320
So I guess that's my answer and non-answer.
00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:13.119
Yeah, no, it's a I think it's a great answer, right?
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:17.119
I think, you know, and and and and in some, you know, the old expression, right?
00:58:17.199 --> 00:58:18.559
You don't know what you don't know.
00:58:18.719 --> 00:58:25.840
And so, you know, some of it is just, you know, trial and error, and and some of it is being at peace, like twice.
00:58:26.000 --> 00:58:30.000
So I always say, you know, I know people still to this day are like, what do you really mean, right?
00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:41.840
But you know, it's just being at with you know at peace with where you are, and you know, we're all gonna get hit up in the head, and one thing, you know, you know, you've seen, I mean, God, right?
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:52.719
You've seen us have, you know, you've seen our best and our worst moments, you've seen, you know, how we struggle with stuff, uh, you know, and you know, no one's perfect.
00:58:52.960 --> 00:59:03.519
Um, we're, you know, uh, I, you know, I've said it a thousand times, I make as many bad decisions as anybody in the company, and but I'm like, I'm at peace with, I mean, it's like I'm not gonna beat myself up over a bad decision.
00:59:03.679 --> 00:59:05.440
Do I try not to do it ever again?
00:59:05.599 --> 00:59:05.679
Yeah.
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:07.599
Yeah, try not to ever do it again.
00:59:07.760 --> 00:59:23.920
But you know, uh, and and and so, you know, it's like if you have expectations of others that you don't have of yourself, or you have expectations of yourself that you don't have of others, um, either way, right?
00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:43.599
You know, it's it's just kind of like, you know, um, I don't know, maybe as an older guy, it's like, you know, having just, you know, a level of showing grace with regard to the fact that this is extraordinarily um that life's hard, but it's cool, right?
00:59:44.559 --> 01:00:02.480
And uh and and you know, the thing about my final comment here, um, you know, I've I've do a lot, as you know, I do a lot of research and I do a lot of thinking about stuff and and I, you know, think about where AI is gonna be and where society's gonna be in, you know, 50 years as an example.
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:08.320
And and you know, humans are amazingly creative people, you know, we're staked, right?
01:00:08.400 --> 01:00:09.119
We're mortal.
01:00:09.280 --> 01:00:19.119
Um AI doesn't have the stake that we have in the decisions that are being made and and um and it's also not solving for things that we're that we're struggling with, right?
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.519
Because it can't, because it doesn't have the stakes that we have.
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:28.079
And so and and ultimately that that we're leak we're on the leading edge of the way information advances.
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:29.679
We don't know what we don't know.
01:00:29.840 --> 01:00:30.400
I don't know.
01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:46.480
There's a I I think that there's I I I I think that humility's like becoming it's always been important because humility is if you're if you're not humble, then you're not you're really not curious and you're not wanting to learn and you're not willing to take feedback.
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:53.840
Something about you know humility that I'm I'm I'm jonesing on right now.
01:00:54.000 --> 01:01:05.760
But anyway, I uh yeah, it's it's hard to it's it's it's it when you're thinking about what you want to do and where you want to go, you have to recognize back to humility that there's all that stuff you just don't know.
01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:11.199
Um and but just you know, avoiding taking a step, that's not the right answer, right?
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:13.199
It's just take a step, right?
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:15.599
Learn about yourself, as you were saying, right?
01:01:15.760 --> 01:01:20.000
Find out whether or not you're comfortable, like in a in an in a in an organization.
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:32.239
It's not just a startup, because you know, in theory, right, we're you know, I are we a startup with 40s, you know, five million dollars in revenue with 10 years old, you know, I I don't think we are to in one regard.
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:35.599
In another regard, God, I feel like we're a startup big time.
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:36.159
Yeah.
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:36.639
Right?
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:37.199
I know.
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:49.519
Well, I and I feel like even on the humility comment, it's like so much of even like early days, you have to be like humble and resilient because like you're getting a lot of no's and you're getting a lot of like that's wrong.
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:51.840
And I I mean, especially from our story, right?
01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:54.559
Like we were not loved from the beginning, I would say.
01:01:54.800 --> 01:02:04.880
Um, and so I mean, I even think of Michelle as like one of the most like humble and resilient people I know, like working with all of the coaches and like taking so much like passionate feedback.
01:02:05.039 --> 01:02:14.000
Um, but I I think like a lot of us had to like have that and like also with like the competitive side of like still wanting to win and pushing through that.
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:29.119
And so I think that's a big part of you know, the DNA of like who I am and who the company is, and um, you know, just continuing to, I guess, like press on into like that unknown and next phase of the product and the company and everything.
01:02:29.360 --> 01:02:30.960
Yeah, it's wild, right?
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:31.440
Yeah.
01:02:31.679 --> 01:02:36.960
I mean, it's just but yeah, it'll be so wild to see who we are in in 10 years.
01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:37.599
Yeah.
01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:38.239
All right.
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:45.599
With that, thank you so much for you know, for for being on this journey with us and helping us build this thing.
01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:48.800
And, you know, generally speaking, I love you.
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:50.079
Love me too.
01:02:51.679 --> 01:02:52.239
See ya.