FWD | Lessons From Losses

WEBVTT
00:00:10.166 --> 00:00:19.795
Welcome to Forward, a podcast from Hard Knock Press where we explore the ideas, stories, and conversations that help build better athletes and better people.
00:00:21.085 --> 00:00:24.146
I'm Kevin Mulhern alongside Joe Clemente.
00:00:24.955 --> 00:00:25.696
Let's get started
00:00:29.047 --> 00:00:34.807
Welcome to FWD: Better Athletes, Better People, episode six of our podcast.
00:00:35.268 --> 00:00:39.078
Lessons From Losses, is the name of our our, our subject today.
00:00:39.578 --> 00:00:45.107
And, there's a few aphorisms I wanna talk about before we get into the discussion.
00:00:45.588 --> 00:00:51.281
winning isn't everything You don't know, know what that phrase is?
00:00:51.281 --> 00:00:51.712
You never heard
00:00:51.735 --> 00:00:53.006
Winning isn't everything.
00:00:53.335 --> 00:00:54.365
It is everything.
00:00:54.435 --> 00:00:57.171
everything win is, winning isn't everything, it's the only thing.
00:00:57.241 --> 00:00:58.262
It's the only thing.
00:00:58.262 --> 00:00:58.432
is
00:00:58.591 --> 00:01:02.012
famous quote from Vince Lombardi, but- Of course...apparently not that famous.
00:01:02.612 --> 00:01:03.201
No, it is.
00:01:03.201 --> 00:01:03.642
It, is.
00:01:03.881 --> 00:01:05.531
I kinda got a little lapsed there, Cap.
00:01:05.552 --> 00:01:06.412
I apologize.
00:01:07.102 --> 00:01:07.792
it is.
00:01:07.792 --> 00:01:07.843
It is.
00:01:07.843 --> 00:01:08.049
I kinda got a little lapse there, Cap.
00:01:08.049 --> 00:01:08.100
I apologize.
00:01:08.100 --> 00:01:08.126
Okay.
00:01:08.126 --> 00:01:08.153
Okay.
00:01:08.153 --> 00:01:08.256
yeah, here's another one.
00:01:08.305 --> 00:01:09.445
show me a good loser
00:01:11.183 --> 00:01:12.322
Show me a good loser.
00:01:13.995 --> 00:01:15.305
Be a good loser and I'll show you a loser.
00:01:15.811 --> 00:01:16.180
Yeah.
00:01:16.180 --> 00:01:18.001
I'm, That one I'm not I'm not familiar with.
00:01:20.436 --> 00:01:22.756
know, we're not here to celebrate losses.
00:01:22.796 --> 00:01:32.066
when it, when it comes to, youth sports, and sports of any kind really, the goal is to win, and it's about trying your best to win.
00:01:32.615 --> 00:01:33.115
there's a lot of...
00:01:33.146 --> 00:01:36.525
your coaching has, career has had a lot of success.
00:01:36.525 --> 00:01:37.415
You've had a lot of wins.
00:01:37.676 --> 00:01:39.236
Hell of a lot more wins than losses.
00:01:39.656 --> 00:01:44.066
as, as I can tell you, it's fun to win, and losses sting.
00:01:44.846 --> 00:01:52.286
But one of the things that, we wanna get into today is the fact that there are lessons to be learned from losses.
00:01:52.706 --> 00:02:03.075
So hopefully this, this will be a, a rare occasion, but there are, there are lessons to be learned, and I want you to talk a little bit about that if you could.
00:02:03.426 --> 00:02:10.205
first of all, what's the difference in the car ride home with your kid after a tough loss as opposed to a win?
00:02:11.068 --> 00:02:11.338
Yeah.
00:02:11.338 --> 00:02:18.028
So the way you look at this, or I, I look at this as a coach, and again, being very fortunate, you talk about wins.
00:02:18.709 --> 00:02:23.199
Last year we got, we got our 300th win at the, at the high school level.
00:02:23.209 --> 00:02:25.348
That, that's a pretty good accomplishment, I would say.
00:02:26.038 --> 00:02:30.079
I couldn't even keep count of all the wins that I've had over the last 25 years.
00:02:30.778 --> 00:02:42.538
when you are taking a look at the game scenario and how the game finishes, okay, you're gonna able to, to, to realize, what do I need to talk to my athlete about?
00:02:42.899 --> 00:02:45.868
What do we need to go over, if they wanna talk about it.
00:02:46.549 --> 00:02:52.139
But you take a look at the, the loss, and look, as a coach, right Cap?
00:02:52.449 --> 00:02:59.758
As a coach, I always take a look at the loss and be like,"What could I have done better?" Athletes are gonna look at it and say, what could they have done better?
00:03:00.449 --> 00:03:02.558
So you're always gonna...
00:03:02.729 --> 00:03:08.868
The only way to, to, to actually learn out on the field, whether a coach or a player, are gonna be from losses.
00:03:08.889 --> 00:03:12.088
It's what you take from them that's gonna make you better, right?
00:03:12.348 --> 00:03:15.308
you you're no one's gonna look, no one's gonna go out there...
00:03:15.568 --> 00:03:16.438
Well, coaches will.
00:03:16.628 --> 00:03:17.158
You will.
00:03:17.229 --> 00:03:17.919
I know you will.
00:03:18.389 --> 00:03:28.979
Coaches are not gonna, you're not gonna go to get a win and all of a sudden, analyze it and be like, hey, hey." hey." coaches that are like us, that are into it, especially at the high school level, we analyze everything.
00:03:29.248 --> 00:03:31.308
But it mean, we have to sit there for hours and hours.
00:03:32.068 --> 00:03:37.408
When, when you're a kid or an athlete and you win, you're like,"Hey, we won.
00:03:37.859 --> 00:03:38.929
We're good," right?
00:03:38.979 --> 00:03:48.868
"We did our job When you lose, that immediately registers in the brain, and, and I feel like athletes are always like,"What did I do?
00:03:48.929 --> 00:03:53.878
this is what I did wrong to cause us to lose." And if you go through a game, right?
00:03:53.878 --> 00:04:00.128
And I tell my guys this all the time, if you go through a game, there's never just one play that costs you the game.
00:04:00.139 --> 00:04:02.568
And I'm talking about baseball right now, but that, that's in any sport.
00:04:02.968 --> 00:04:06.408
If you if you literally take the body of work, okay?
00:04:06.449 --> 00:04:20.088
And you say,"Hey, from, the first pitch or the first minute or the..." Whatever it might be, the first play, there were things that happened during game that caused that, caused the team to not be victorious.
00:04:20.178 --> 00:04:20.548
Okay?
00:04:20.939 --> 00:04:27.939
So now you have a kid or athletes that come off the field, your kid in particular, you're getting in the car, right?
00:04:28.709 --> 00:04:29.439
Again, once
00:04:29.708 --> 00:04:29.858
Say
00:04:30.569 --> 00:04:41.658
they come to you, they wanna talk about it, or there's things that you, you can, you know when that time is to that right conversation, They're gonna tell you, me, they're gonna be like,"I could've done this better.
00:04:42.088 --> 00:04:47.059
I should've done this better." And then as a parent, I think that's when you turn around and you're just like,"Yeah.
00:04:47.069 --> 00:04:47.608
Okay, great.
00:04:47.608 --> 00:04:58.588
Well then, that means hey, we might wanna spend a little bit more time working on this aspect of your game this week or, this month instead of focusing on all your strengths.
00:04:58.778 --> 00:05:01.269
let's focus more on the weaknesses than Does that make sense?
00:05:01.434 --> 00:05:03.603
Yeah, but there are different kind of losses, right?
00:05:03.684 --> 00:05:20.103
if, if, you're losing a game, baseball game, say, and the pitcher on the other team is coming out there in high school throwing 95 plus with a wicked put-away slider, and he's throwing everything for strikes, sometimes you gotta just tip your cap and say,"Okay, guy was awesome.
00:05:20.494 --> 00:05:21.653
Tough, tough win.
00:05:21.944 --> 00:05:33.033
That was a tough game to win." And there are other losses you have when you have a team that you that is inferior to you, and you, and you still lose, you don't play well, you, you kinda sabotage your own game.
00:05:33.403 --> 00:05:41.733
Those losses sit a little differently than, th- than than the of game when, when you know you're up against a team that is as good if not better than you.
00:05:42.326 --> 00:05:43.567
Yeah, as coaches, right?
00:05:43.596 --> 00:05:46.336
Like, that's when you get, that's when you start to get annoyed.
00:05:46.497 --> 00:05:49.646
Not, not at the, not at the kids all the time, but at the situation.
00:05:49.947 --> 00:05:55.127
Like you just said, when you're playing a team that, that's supposed to be inferior to you, that's why we play the game, right?
00:05:55.127 --> 00:05:55.966
You gotta play the game.
00:05:56.447 --> 00:06:02.826
If, if they are if they come out and they're better prepared, then as a coach, that's where I get upset at myself.
00:06:03.396 --> 00:06:08.666
I'm like,"Hey, I didn't prepare my guys," Or I allowed them not to be, focused," or whatever it might be.
00:06:08.997 --> 00:06:11.286
So it always, it always leans on us as coaches.
00:06:11.706 --> 00:06:19.317
As players, they know they, they will-- They take it to heart because they know that they should've beaten a team that they didn't beat.
00:06:19.607 --> 00:06:23.416
But you gotta tip your cap to the other team because they came out and they were ready to play.
00:06:24.117 --> 00:06:24.956
That's just the way it is.
00:06:25.257 --> 00:06:26.776
It's why we play the game, right Cap?
00:06:27.478 --> 00:06:34.067
Well, especially baseball when, when, baseball is a weird game'cause you could have a game where you have awful hitting luck.
00:06:34.327 --> 00:06:41.197
You hit a bunch of smashes and they all find gloves, and, and the other team comes up and scores a run with a two bleeders and bloop.
00:06:41.427 --> 00:06:42.997
That happens a lot, as well.
00:06:43.007 --> 00:06:44.158
Baseball's a funny game that way.
00:06:44.158 --> 00:06:45.028
You never, never know.
00:06:45.517 --> 00:06:48.517
But, but any any sport, you gotta play the game.
00:06:48.747 --> 00:06:52.997
It, it, you, know, they don't give the trophies to the team before they, before they start the game.
00:06:53.358 --> 00:06:54.257
you, gotta win it.
00:06:54.718 --> 00:07:03.637
and- the interesting thing, you know, in, in my career as an athlete, I remember the losses more vividly, I think, than the wins.
00:07:04.168 --> 00:07:06.877
And most of my teams, were really successful.
00:07:06.987 --> 00:07:12.617
but the losses are what really sticks in my, in my craw and what sticks in my memory sometimes.
00:07:12.918 --> 00:07:15.637
The losses are, are something I, I remember.
00:07:16.117 --> 00:07:20.377
now the question is, we talk about learning from losses, What do you learn exactly?
00:07:20.437 --> 00:07:23.057
What do you learn from a, from a, from a loss?
00:07:23.067 --> 00:07:25.937
I mean, how is that different from, from a win?
00:07:25.937 --> 00:07:30.197
What, what are you thinking about differently when you win a game as opposed to losing a game?
00:07:30.512 --> 00:07:33.273
Well, when you lose, it shows your weaknesses, right?
00:07:33.283 --> 00:07:34.072
That's what we talk about.
00:07:34.463 --> 00:07:39.923
So, or things that you need to, as Again, are we speaking about it as a coach or a player?
00:07:39.923 --> 00:07:40.283
Both?
00:07:40.814 --> 00:07:42.293
Well, let, let's say, let's say both.
00:07:42.394 --> 00:07:42.613
Yeah.
00:07:42.653 --> 00:07:42.723
Okay, let's
00:07:42.809 --> 00:07:43.858
Okay, let's start as a coach.
00:07:44.309 --> 00:07:56.098
As a coach, when you, when you have a loss, you have to go through everything that occurred in that and figure out where the weak points are and what you need to work on and, and get your kids prepared to go out and not do that again.
00:07:56.449 --> 00:07:57.668
Now listen, everyone's human.
00:07:58.468 --> 00:07:59.059
It's gonna happen.
00:07:59.678 --> 00:08:00.009
Okay?
00:08:00.269 --> 00:08:11.509
As an athlete, right, you, you take a look at it and you say,"Okay, what could I have done better to help my team win?" If that means, hey, I made a couple errors to my backhand side or my shortstop, it could be anything.
00:08:11.819 --> 00:08:18.079
But ultimately, no one is gonna go undefeated in this, in this world forever.
00:08:18.788 --> 00:08:21.379
If we talk about baseball, it's a game of failure.
00:08:22.038 --> 00:08:23.668
You're gonna fail more than you succeed.
00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:31.309
So you have to have that mindset to be able to know that when you go out there, the odds are already stacked against you, especially at the plate.
00:08:31.608 --> 00:08:35.708
You got a pitcher, you were just talking about a guy throwing 95 with a wipeout slider.
00:08:35.708 --> 00:08:39.688
You're facing a pitcher that's out there, he's got five pitches.
00:08:40.058 --> 00:08:41.328
You're the guy in the box.
00:08:41.328 --> 00:08:44.759
You gotta figure out how to hit, how to hit five pitches and not know that they're coming.
00:08:45.538 --> 00:09:00.668
We always, we always laugh about this when I talk to the guys and I'm like,"You do understand that baseball and softball in the US are the only sports that the defense starts with the ball?" That's how hard it is Everybody else is on offense when they start with the ball.
00:09:01.308 --> 00:09:23.109
So you have to realize that, especially in baseball, you're like,"Oh, man, I'm already, I'm already behind the eight ball." As a, as a player, again, I don't wanna run with this all, all day, but as a player, you, you know what you need to work on, and that's when you're gonna go to your coach, or that's when they usually come to you and say,"Hey, Coach, I need to work on this, this, this." And this." And as a coach, that's when you're like,"Okay." You bring the team together.
00:09:23.109 --> 00:09:25.589
But the one thing I am gonna tell you, Kev, and I'm very...
00:09:25.629 --> 00:09:27.349
I, I strongly believe this, okay?
00:09:28.778 --> 00:09:31.158
I tell my guys I have a rule when you come on the field.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.619
When we get on the field, we, we, we go to battle together, right?
00:09:35.619 --> 00:09:37.668
Brothers, brother to brother, the whole nine.
00:09:37.958 --> 00:09:40.759
I'm playing, I want you to play for the guy next to you.
00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:44.359
I don't want you to play for yourself, I want you to play for the guy next to you, okay?
00:09:44.658 --> 00:09:50.349
And everybody responds to that because they understand that they wanna be with kids that are like-minded athletes that work hard.
00:09:50.349 --> 00:09:51.589
They see all the blood, sweat, and tears.
00:09:51.589 --> 00:09:52.328
we talk about that.
00:09:53.168 --> 00:10:02.009
But I do tell them, I said,"Listen, win, lose, or draw, once the game ends and you cross that line, and you're going in the parking lot, and you're going home, it's over.
00:10:02.418 --> 00:10:03.927
You gotta, you gotta have short-term memory.
00:10:04.748 --> 00:10:05.428
You gotta let it go.
00:10:05.879 --> 00:10:08.557
You gotta move on, and then we work on it the next day."
00:10:08.690 --> 00:10:09.889
Well, you gotta flush it, right?
00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:10.398
gotta flush it, right?
00:10:10.398 --> 00:10:10.437
You gotta flush it.
00:10:10.504 --> 00:10:10.751
flush it.
00:10:10.751 --> 00:10:13.285
But, but do all kids do that easily?
00:10:14.014 --> 00:10:14.634
I don't do it.
00:10:15.034 --> 00:10:15.544
Did you?
00:10:15.806 --> 00:10:16.186
No.
00:10:16.316 --> 00:10:18.086
losses used to, used to eat at me.
00:10:18.157 --> 00:10:21.366
I bet you today we're gonna talk about things that still, that we still carry.
00:10:21.466 --> 00:10:21.485
yeah.
00:10:21.515 --> 00:10:21.823
And today we're gonna talk about things that still, that we still can't eat.
00:10:21.823 --> 00:10:23.450
Oh, I'm gonna talk to you about it in a few minutes.
00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:32.039
I, and, and part of it is, you, when you lose a tough game and it's a team game, and you had a role in that loss, it, it, it really stinks.
00:10:32.049 --> 00:10:33.649
It's, it's a difficult thing to deal with.
00:10:34.049 --> 00:10:35.309
it, it was, it was interesting.
00:10:35.309 --> 00:10:50.322
One of the, one of the, the things when we were playing the state championship, Don Bosco against CBA, I was really hoping that one of the that my kid and one of the, the other kids on the team did not wind up making a major mistake and that would, that would've lost the game.
00:10:50.363 --> 00:10:51.783
It would've lost the state championship.
00:10:52.143 --> 00:10:58.403
I I, I wanted to win, but I really didn't want somebody to be the goat for perpetuity.
00:10:59.013 --> 00:10:59.533
think about it.
00:10:59.543 --> 00:11:01.293
You, you, you, you're winning a game.
00:11:01.452 --> 00:11:08.613
you're up two or three in the last inning, bases loaded, and, and you misplay it out, a fly ball and three-run score, and you turn the loss into a...
00:11:08.993 --> 00:11:10.942
the, the victory into, into a loss.
00:11:11.263 --> 00:11:14.352
that's the kinda, kinda play that, that stays with you your whole life.
00:11:14.732 --> 00:11:20.013
I, I, I know guys who have lost games when they were 10, 12, 14, 16, 17.
00:11:20.393 --> 00:11:25.643
They're 65 years old, they're still talking about it, because it really almost, in a negative way, shaped them.
00:11:26.033 --> 00:11:42.763
So I was always worried, that that last game in particular, that was the one game that, that Dennis played in his high school career that I was saying to myself,"Okay, let's win this game, and let's really..." I, I'm just praying to myself that, that, that, that, that there not be a major mistake that would've had a negative impact.
00:11:43.062 --> 00:11:46.087
and, and I hated that mindset'cause you that, that's a loser's mentality.
00:11:46.368 --> 00:11:50.317
You wanna be thinking,"Let's do what we need to do to win." You wanna think always positive.
00:11:50.557 --> 00:11:54.918
What, what can I do to win the game?" The mindset has to be positive, especially baseball.
00:11:54.927 --> 00:11:57.618
You go up there thinking,"Let's not make a mistake.
00:11:57.748 --> 00:11:59.707
let's not strike out," you're gonna strike out.
00:11:59.937 --> 00:12:01.437
You have to think positive.
00:12:01.437 --> 00:12:04.317
You have to have a positive mindset rather than a negative mindset.
00:12:04.857 --> 00:12:11.967
But as a, as a father that day, I remember thinking,"I really just hope my kid doesn't doesn't screw it up in a, in a major way."
00:12:12.048 --> 00:12:12.388
what you
00:12:12.488 --> 00:12:16.067
that was the only time that I, I, I felt that way, in his entire four years at Bosco.
00:12:16.118 --> 00:12:18.307
But That last game, that's what I, was in my mind.
00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:29.799
But I'm gonna tell you, what you just said, athletes that are watching this, like players, they need to understand and, and not underestimate how much pressure that are actually under watching the game.
00:12:30.259 --> 00:12:39.309
Because we want our kids to succeed, and, and ultimately, we talk about baseball, you're in a game that, you're gonna fail more than you succeed.
00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:43.629
So I think there needs to be some recognition to the parents also.
00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:47.470
I know we talk about the book and all that stuff, but you being in the stands, I remember.
00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:48.539
I was there.
00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:50.110
You showed up four hours early.
00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:51.279
Two two hours.
00:12:51.740 --> 00:12:52.389
So, so,
00:12:52.549 --> 00:13:08.629
I was being a little but, but all of a sudden we got there, and I turn around, I'm like,"There's Captain." But my point is, is that parent- athletes need to know that too, They need to understand that parents are under that pressure, and they're trying, they're doing the best that they can not to put more pressure on the kids.
00:13:08.629 --> 00:13:09.179
But that's hard.
00:13:09.740 --> 00:13:11.159
so that's why people have to stay away.
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:21.200
But, you've done a great job, and most parents do, but I want the athletes to know that, I know we always talk about this, this program or, or we talk about the book and we're always trying to help parents.
00:13:21.350 --> 00:13:22.950
We are, and that's what we wanna do.
00:13:23.250 --> 00:13:32.860
But the athletes need to realize that th- there's a lot that, that, that, goes into their mindset of wanting to stay positive for their kids while they're out on the field.
00:13:33.210 --> 00:13:33.669
But it's hard.
00:13:33.889 --> 00:13:38.212
but, put it into a, a hypothetical perspective.
00:13:38.212 --> 00:13:38.429
Thank God it's a hypothetical.
00:13:38.429 --> 00:13:45.460
But, but say your kid makes the losing play that loses major game, a state championship game, say.
00:13:46.049 --> 00:13:56.799
I, I think at that point, that moment in the car ride home or, or when he gets home from from school, what have you, is a very pivotal moment in a parent-child relationship.
00:13:57.139 --> 00:14:06.269
If your kid loses a state championship game because he drops the ball in center and you come back and you lambaste the kid I that that'll scar your relationship the rest of your life.
00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:22.259
and, and, and at that point, the parent, a parent who, who suffers that, watches his kid mess up and, and lose, and lose in a big way, it's so important for that parent to, to, to realize that I have to be a parent here.
00:14:22.570 --> 00:14:27.379
I have to show love to my kid and not not pile on'cause he's feeling awful already.
00:14:27.429 --> 00:14:27.830
He let...
00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:34.220
He feels that he let his, himself down, his team down, his coaches down, everybody in the, and the fans, his parents, everyone.
00:14:34.889 --> 00:14:44.090
To pile on and and just rub it in and pour salt in that wound, I think that, that'll devastate, potentially devastate your relationship with your child the rest of his life.
00:14:44.590 --> 00:14:54.019
and and I think a, a parent who, who, who's strong enough to see that, to see that his kid messed up and lost, and, and yet be strong enough to say,"You know what?
00:14:54.330 --> 00:14:56.059
I, I, I love you, Johnny.
00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:56.899
it's okay.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:57.960
We'll get over it.
00:14:58.159 --> 00:14:58.950
We'll learn from this.
00:14:58.950 --> 00:15:00.830
You'll grow from it's just a game.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:02.190
Don't worry about it so much.
00:15:02.470 --> 00:15:08.909
We'll-- let's go get some ice cream." that, that, that has to happen, because if it doesn't, you're gonna pay the price in the long run.
00:15:09.250 --> 00:15:11.379
Think about the kid, I don't mean to bring it up.
00:15:11.379 --> 00:15:15.830
Think about the kid in the College World Series that was like, I think it was for Alabama, right?
00:15:15.909 --> 00:15:16.860
The, the left fielder.
00:15:17.470 --> 00:15:19.870
they they were getting ready to win a national championship.
00:15:20.330 --> 00:15:21.190
the game was over.
00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:24.039
The kid makes the catch, it's, it's done.
00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:30.279
And this kid, the coach talks about it, he carried that team, for that entire season.
00:15:30.710 --> 00:15:31.779
He's a draft pick.
00:15:31.830 --> 00:15:32.649
the ki- he's unbelievable.
00:15:32.649 --> 00:15:46.059
You watch him, online and, and that kid, ball gets hit at him, he probably makes that play, 99 out of 100 times, and his feet came out from underneath him, he slipped, it goes off his glove.
00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:48.980
They, they tie it up and then end up winning it.
00:15:49.029 --> 00:15:50.549
the kid was devastated.
00:15:50.970 --> 00:15:56.139
his-- after the game, his teammates ran out to left field'cause, he couldn't move.
00:15:56.870 --> 00:16:01.889
So again, parents, you need to understand, the emotions at that point when something...
00:16:01.889 --> 00:16:14.720
again, we're talking about the College World Series, but a, a, a league championship, a Little League championship, anything that has, I would say, more importance than a regular game, we, we need to figure that out.
00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:15.960
we need to be like,"Okay,
00:16:17.097 --> 00:16:18.124
today, if, if I, you
00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:18.649
I...
00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:24.899
I need to approach this differently because the emotions are gonna be much higher, and my kids are, are gonna be much more vulnerable.
00:16:25.090 --> 00:16:26.049
So we need to figure that out."
00:16:27.505 --> 00:16:31.046
But, and it's something that I think you need to consciously think about even before the game.
00:16:31.375 --> 00:16:36.495
Because sometimes if you just react instinctively, your instinct might be to be, highly critical.
00:16:36.505 --> 00:16:43.216
I, I was a highly critical parent when, when my, when my son was 10, 11, if he would make a mistake, I would be all over him.
00:16:43.645 --> 00:16:52.155
And, like I said, somehow without reading your book, I learned a little bit, to, to moderate that behavior and to, and to be more supportive and less critical.
00:16:52.535 --> 00:17:00.105
and when I read, when I read your book, this is interesting, when I read"Long Ride Home," even before Dennis' college, season, I, I read the book.
00:17:00.105 --> 00:17:08.836
I was trying to, inculcate some of the themes of the book into how I parented my son, even as, as an 18-year-old, a 19-year-old college kid.
00:17:09.326 --> 00:17:20.296
so it, it, it is kind of extraordinary how, how much we take for granted what our response is and what our response should be when dealing with, with a kid's athletic performances.
00:17:20.726 --> 00:17:23.046
It's, a it's a difficult thing to balance.
00:17:23.066 --> 00:17:23.796
It really is.
00:17:24.266 --> 00:17:30.165
but, but you have to have some conscious thought as to how you're gonna act in both scenarios.
00:17:30.415 --> 00:17:31.865
Easy to after your kid wins.
00:17:32.056 --> 00:17:34.665
Your kid wins, hits a game-winning home run, happy day.
00:17:34.665 --> 00:17:36.405
Everybody's jumping up and down excited.
00:17:36.405 --> 00:17:38.026
It's, easy to do that.
00:17:39.306 --> 00:17:45.405
How are you gonna act if, if you, if you lose and your kid strikes out with the bases loaded, two outs, or if he makes an error in the last inning?
00:17:46.006 --> 00:17:51.066
Th- those are, those are things you have to actually think about, I think- to really, to really get it right.
00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:56.589
Nobody thinks about the pitcher who gave up the home run How about how that kid feels?
00:17:57.046 --> 00:17:57.155
I know how that kid
00:17:57.859 --> 00:17:59.190
That's exactly what you're talking about.
00:17:59.609 --> 00:18:02.509
So like it's,"Oh, but what about that guy?"
00:18:02.986 --> 00:18:05.256
Yeah, it's a zero, zero-sum game in sports.
00:18:05.306 --> 00:18:06.855
you're gonna have a winner, you're gonna have a loser.
00:18:08.150 --> 00:18:08.849
why we play the game.
00:18:09.074 --> 00:18:13.973
So, I, I, I wanted to talk to you about one of my searing losses.
00:18:15.203 --> 00:18:17.614
we always talk about baseball, but I'm gonna talk about football,'cause,
00:18:17.884 --> 00:18:18.523
go.
00:18:18.753 --> 00:18:20.203
Football season coming up, Cap
00:18:20.386 --> 00:18:26.436
Football season coming up, Cap Poly Prep in the 1980s, was an extraordinary football powerhouse in Brooklyn.
00:18:26.856 --> 00:18:32.636
we were a private school, and we used to go play the public schools and and generally do really well against them.
00:18:33.086 --> 00:18:37.237
My senior year, we were riding a 24-game unbeaten streak.
00:18:37.257 --> 00:18:37.547
We had...
00:18:37.616 --> 00:18:49.290
We were unbeaten in 1979, 1980, and we had tied a couple games, but we were, I think, 6 and 2 or, 6-0 and 2, two ties as a senior.
00:18:49.661 --> 00:18:55.121
We were playing the, the second to last game against New Dorp High School from Staten Island, and they didn't have a great record.
00:18:55.121 --> 00:18:57.691
I think they were 5 and 4, 6 and 3, something like that.
00:18:57.711 --> 00:18:59.810
They were decent but not outstanding.
00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:04.921
But they were a bunch of tough kids from Staten Island, who were, who were, who were after it.
00:19:05.270 --> 00:19:10.911
and we were Poly Prep sitting there just, we had beaten Lincoln High School, the number one team in the city, just a couple weeks ago.
00:19:11.421 --> 00:19:14.381
And, a and we were playing this game.
00:19:14.391 --> 00:19:16.431
New Dorp was after us.
00:19:16.471 --> 00:19:18.701
They were, they, they were, they were hitting.
00:19:19.050 --> 00:19:29.471
They, they had some guy took a cheap shot off, a Roy Hill, knocked him out of bounds, on the sidelines and he, and he, his hip went into the bench and he was out for the game, which was killer'cause he was our breakaway back.
00:19:29.480 --> 00:19:30.191
He was really good.
00:19:30.671 --> 00:19:32.800
so we couldn't do anything on offense.
00:19:32.830 --> 00:19:33.721
I'm playing tackle.
00:19:33.721 --> 00:19:40.201
I was, I was a 5'11", 190-pound right tackle, giving up 40, 50 pounds to a lot of these guys.
00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:41.820
I remember that, that day particularly.
00:19:41.830 --> 00:19:43.330
I, I got creamed.
00:19:43.381 --> 00:19:46.921
my guy was just physically superior to me, and I had a tough day the whole way.
00:19:47.451 --> 00:19:51.570
And it was a it was a rainy rainy, day and the field was sloppy, muddy.
00:19:52.131 --> 00:19:55.990
three or four minutes to go, it's zero-zero, and they punt to us.
00:19:56.320 --> 00:20:00.405
Our, our punt returner catches the ball on the two-yard line and and slips.
00:20:00.955 --> 00:20:03.605
So we we have the ball on the, on the two-yard line.
00:20:04.036 --> 00:20:11.316
The next play, I remember there's a guy, our quarterback goes back to pass, and I play in tackle.
00:20:11.316 --> 00:20:18.201
The guy slips the seam between the guard and me under the tackle and in, pretty much unmolested for a a, a sack safety.
00:20:18.601 --> 00:20:19.421
We lose two-nothing.
00:20:19.421 --> 00:20:19.820
That
00:20:20.488 --> 00:20:20.938
That's the...
00:20:20.988 --> 00:20:21.827
That was the final?
00:20:21.836 --> 00:20:21.941
was the final?
00:20:21.941 --> 00:20:22.580
It's two-nothing.
00:20:22.851 --> 00:20:22.861
Oh.
00:20:23.157 --> 00:20:23.397
Oh
00:20:24.250 --> 00:20:31.770
So Poly Prep's 24-game winning streak comes to an end, and the guys on my team, my locker room were just devastated.
00:20:31.820 --> 00:20:40.141
So much so that we used to always have a post-game spread after the game, and the parents and coaches and teachers, everybody would be there patting you on the back.
00:20:40.191 --> 00:20:44.891
"Ooh." We're 24 games without losing, so there's a lot of backpatting at that point.
00:20:45.461 --> 00:20:54.901
Nobody from the team wanted to go up to the, to, the ceremony, to the, post-game spread, in the fifth former, which was a makeshift gymnasium.
00:20:55.211 --> 00:20:56.020
Nobody wanted to go.
00:20:56.371 --> 00:20:58.891
Finally, my brother and I, we had, we had showered and said, what?
00:20:59.121 --> 00:20:59.901
This is crazy.
00:20:59.941 --> 00:21:13.131
Let's just go." Grab our sandwiches and take, whatever we gotta take and, and we, we deal with it." And we get up there, and I remember speaking to one of our coaches, Coach Anderson, and he he basically said,"You know what, guys?
00:21:13.201 --> 00:21:14.121
You had a great run.
00:21:14.121 --> 00:21:19.711
You, you, you're feeling what almost every kid in the city feels pretty much every couple of weeks.
00:21:19.931 --> 00:21:20.730
You lost.
00:21:21.010 --> 00:21:21.740
deal with it.
00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:22.530
Live with it.
00:21:22.550 --> 00:21:27.471
It's, it's not something that's, that's so crazy, and it's, and it's not the end of the world.
00:21:27.490 --> 00:21:32.230
You get back at it next time and you do what you gotta do." I thought that was really good advice.
00:21:32.701 --> 00:21:33.621
But, that...
00:21:33.770 --> 00:21:38.141
I do remember that, that loss, sting was we had lost the streak.
00:21:38.161 --> 00:21:39.101
It was a three-year streak.
00:21:39.590 --> 00:21:48.695
but at the end of the day, you just gotta move on, And I remember the that coach talking to us about that, and it, it was, it was something we needed to hear.
00:21:48.695 --> 00:21:50.256
The, the world didn't end.
00:21:50.516 --> 00:21:53.816
We would learn from it, we would grow from it and move on.
00:21:54.405 --> 00:21:55.516
easier said than done, son.
00:21:55.546 --> 00:22:01.375
I think some of, some of my teammates are still down in that locker room'cause they don't wanna come, come up to face the music.
00:22:02.016 --> 00:22:02.526
Two-nothing.
00:22:02.526 --> 00:22:04.076
How the hell we lose two-nothing to New Dorp?
00:22:04.598 --> 00:22:05.608
That's tough, man.
00:22:05.689 --> 00:22:07.388
That's I, you don't hear that very often.
00:22:07.838 --> 00:22:09.078
A two-nothing loss.
00:22:09.377 --> 00:22:10.057
In in football.
00:22:10.538 --> 00:22:13.998
but, that is probably the game I remember most out of my high school career.
00:22:13.998 --> 00:22:21.708
The, I, I remember the Lincoln game quite a bit, but the, New Durham game, especially'cause I, I could've done a little better on the block on the last play.
00:22:21.708 --> 00:22:24.557
that I got the down, but that's just life.
00:22:25.538 --> 00:22:26.087
That's, that's, so-
00:22:26.116 --> 00:22:27.636
we, we all we all have those-
00:22:28.309 --> 00:22:32.279
You have a loss you, that, that you remember as a player that, that really, that really sits with you?
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:32.960
Yeah.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:33.180
Yeah.
00:22:33.219 --> 00:22:33.719
I do.
00:22:34.098 --> 00:22:37.769
it was'91, we were the Elizabeth High School.
00:22:38.259 --> 00:22:40.719
We I had just, had gone down there as a junior.
00:22:41.368 --> 00:22:42.058
We'll get to it.
00:22:42.058 --> 00:22:46.699
we'll get to that story some other day, like you said, we'll get one in-into those conversations.
00:22:47.358 --> 00:22:52.769
We were playing, we were playing in the state sectional final, group four.
00:22:52.838 --> 00:22:56.739
We were group four, and we were the number one team in the state.
00:22:57.358 --> 00:22:59.528
And man, we had some really good players.
00:23:00.078 --> 00:23:03.489
We were like,"We're gonna win this thing," so forth and so on.
00:23:04.298 --> 00:23:14.348
So we end up, we end up winning, we end up I believe we beat either Westfield or Cranford, and now we're playing Mount Olive, and we were playing in...
00:23:14.568 --> 00:23:15.269
Where were we?
00:23:15.648 --> 00:23:17.229
We were at a, like a neutral site.
00:23:17.798 --> 00:23:19.219
I think we were at one of the colleges.
00:23:19.838 --> 00:23:24.138
So we go out there and we're all fired up.
00:23:24.179 --> 00:23:30.949
We got our, we got a stud pitcher on the mound, and the game comes down to...
00:23:31.959 --> 00:23:35.269
They, they were actually, they were actually home.
00:23:35.588 --> 00:23:36.999
I don't, I don't remember.
00:23:37.368 --> 00:23:38.398
Maybe we were the two seed.
00:23:38.398 --> 00:23:38.909
I apologize.
00:23:38.909 --> 00:23:53.778
We were the two seed; they were the one seed, so they were home, and what ended up happening was, it was the bottom of the seventh, it was a 2-2 game, I'm catching, and Mike...
00:23:54.288 --> 00:23:58.098
they have a, they have a runner on first and third, two outs.
00:23:59.419 --> 00:24:01.878
Coach calls timeout, walks to the mound.
00:24:02.278 --> 00:24:03.189
We all come in.
00:24:03.538 --> 00:24:04.898
He's like,"Listen, here's what's gonna happen.
00:24:05.499 --> 00:24:11.308
They're gonna early break." And he tells our pitcher,"Check the guy at third," right?
00:24:11.828 --> 00:24:12.138
"Don't...
00:24:12.179 --> 00:24:13.648
You don't even have to give the ball up.
00:24:14.019 --> 00:24:23.479
Let's get the guy at the plate."'Cause I think they were, like, hitting, like, they were like, they were like bottom of the lineup, and he had handled these guys all day, and his pitch count wasn't terrible.
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.009
this kid, this kid ended up being in the big leagues,
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:26.680
so
00:24:27.108 --> 00:24:30.519
he could throw, he was like 90, 92, and he's"I got it.
00:24:30.558 --> 00:24:32.137
I got it." he's like,"We're good here.
00:24:32.148 --> 00:24:35.728
We're good here." And, and the crazy part is our, the heart of the lineup, right?
00:24:35.729 --> 00:24:36.598
Three, four, five.
00:24:36.628 --> 00:24:37.479
I was coming up, man.
00:24:37.489 --> 00:24:42.798
I was like,"We're gonna win this thing." So what happens?
00:24:43.548 --> 00:24:53.019
Early break, he steps off the mound, checks the guy at third, and throws the ball to the I'm yelling,"Four, four, four,"'cause I'm catching.
00:24:53.548 --> 00:24:59.558
Kid breaks for the plate- I get my throw from my shortstop, it's up a little bit.
00:25:00.749 --> 00:25:02.588
I jump, like I have to go up a little bit.
00:25:02.648 --> 00:25:03.318
I grab it.
00:25:03.929 --> 00:25:27.608
As I come down, as I come down, I'm Like I know I'm in front of the plate, but literally he like hook slides, does one of these like, crazy I give the kid credit, but I, I was I was blocking the plate, and he literally slid past me, and then kinda like just threw his hand out, And go- And I, and I was trailing him, you know what I'm saying?
00:25:27.608 --> 00:25:28.499
I was following him.
00:25:29.058 --> 00:25:32.709
But he like I thought I got him, to this day.
00:25:32.739 --> 00:25:34.038
Just so you know, guys, I got him.
00:25:34.409 --> 00:25:37.449
But to this day, I, I would tell you that I got him.
00:25:37.838 --> 00:25:40.388
Umpire calls him safe, and they walk us off.
00:25:40.828 --> 00:25:42.269
That was devastating.
00:25:42.919 --> 00:25:48.648
That was like one of the, the most heart-wrenching losses we ever had to deal with because-
00:25:48.736 --> 00:25:49.276
year were you?
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:49.990
What year were you?
00:25:49.990 --> 00:25:50.608
I was a junior.
00:25:51.288 --> 00:25:52.588
'Cause we were winning the states.
00:25:52.598 --> 00:25:53.969
Like I knew we were winning the states.
00:25:54.449 --> 00:25:56.358
All the guys were Like we were stacked.
00:25:57.009 --> 00:26:01.308
And, that was I, I remember there being like a a...
00:26:01.308 --> 00:26:08.588
Like something happened with that, like how they ended up being the one seed and we were the two seed even though we were like the number one team in the state.
00:26:08.989 --> 00:26:10.038
We were ranked in the country.
00:26:10.098 --> 00:26:11.578
I think we were like 11th in the country.
00:26:11.634 --> 00:26:14.733
So, so how'd you deal with that loss, immediately after the game?
00:26:15.462 --> 00:26:19.982
So immediately after the game, I took a rubber mallet and just started hitting my No, I'm just kidding, guys.
00:26:19.982 --> 00:26:20.492
I'm just kidding.
00:26:20.583 --> 00:26:20.992
I was just
00:26:21.163 --> 00:26:21.913
Rubber mallet.
00:26:22.903 --> 00:26:24.003
You mean metal mallet.
00:26:24.353 --> 00:26:24.472
Mallet.
00:26:25.042 --> 00:26:25.663
I was just kidding.
00:26:25.663 --> 00:26:26.222
I'm just kidding.
00:26:26.653 --> 00:26:29.573
so our coach, it took a You know what, you know what's really weird?
00:26:29.732 --> 00:26:30.923
And I'm sure you went through this too.
00:26:31.452 --> 00:26:32.413
You were talking about your locker.
00:26:32.413 --> 00:26:32.563
room.
00:26:32.563 --> 00:26:38.992
we were away, I felt like getting off of that field took hours.
00:26:40.053 --> 00:26:42.173
nobody wanted to, take their cleats off.
00:26:42.823 --> 00:26:44.452
Nobody wanted to pack their stuff up.
00:26:44.462 --> 00:26:49.192
We just literally sat there in this dugout, And, we were upset.
00:26:49.232 --> 00:26:50.192
People were bawling.
00:26:50.192 --> 00:26:51.522
The seniors were upset.
00:26:51.903 --> 00:26:53.522
I was, I was devastated.
00:26:53.522 --> 00:26:56.073
I was like,"I got that kid." I was pissed.
00:26:56.732 --> 00:26:59.563
I was like,"I know I tagged that kid." So-
00:26:59.624 --> 00:27:00.394
still think you got him?
00:27:00.833 --> 00:27:00.978
you still think you got him?
00:27:00.978 --> 00:27:01.643
I know I got him.
00:27:01.992 --> 00:27:06.532
But, but I'm gonna go, I'm gonna be polite, on,'cause it's, it's, it's our podcast.
00:27:06.923 --> 00:27:12.103
I'm gonna be polite and, and be like, okay, but, Again, we'll get We'll have a podcast on umpires one of these days.
00:27:12.232 --> 00:27:12.942
Good and bad.
00:27:13.682 --> 00:27:15.972
what do you say at that moment in time?
00:27:16.073 --> 00:27:19.262
My coach walked out I'll never forget it.
00:27:19.782 --> 00:27:25.393
Ray, Ray, Ray came out and he was like,"Guys, keep your heads up.
00:27:25.403 --> 00:27:29.782
When we walk out of here, you have nothing to be, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
00:27:30.432 --> 00:27:31.732
You guys had a tremendous run.
00:27:32.143 --> 00:27:36.053
It's just the way baseball is, and we're gonna move on and we're gonna learn from this."
00:27:36.662 --> 00:27:39.041
So your coach handled it well.
00:27:39.051 --> 00:27:39.071
Yeah.
00:27:39.372 --> 00:27:42.372
another coach could have come in there and started flipping over tables.
00:27:42.884 --> 00:27:43.134
Yeah.
00:27:43.184 --> 00:27:47.025
There's a listen, there is two ways that you can approach it.
00:27:47.434 --> 00:27:49.625
He, I thought, I thought he handled it the right way.
00:27:50.025 --> 00:27:52.775
He had a lot of experience, like being able to do that with players.
00:27:53.365 --> 00:27:57.474
My assistant coach, he was a little hot, but, but he got over it.
00:27:57.535 --> 00:28:07.875
And matter of fact, what I saw was, and I'm sure you did too, the, the rage, the anger turns into, care, like love.
00:28:07.974 --> 00:28:13.535
guys hugging each other and be like,"We're gonna..." I think, I think it's worse in high school because of your seniors, right?
00:28:13.954 --> 00:28:17.944
When you, it's like saying goodbye and, and you wanna do everything you can to win for them.
00:28:18.525 --> 00:28:21.785
you wanna do everything, but unfortunately it doesn't always happen.
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:23.509
Well, the other team's trying to win, too.
00:28:24.309 --> 00:28:29.960
and that's that's a, a, a, special type of loss, and I've, I've experienced that a couple times in the last few years.
00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:47.309
But when there's a, a season-ending loss, when you're in a playoff position and you lose and your season's over, and sometimes, it means your career with this particular program is over, and sometimes it means your career in the sport is over, period.
00:28:47.630 --> 00:29:03.069
I remember this year, Dennis's, Union team lost the, the Liberty League playoffs in the first round, and there's, there was four or five really great seniors, great players, great kids, so supportive of the freshmen, including my son, which I really appreciated.
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:04.829
They're really A great, great group of kids.
00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:07.910
And the finality of it was, was stark.
00:29:07.930 --> 00:29:17.000
And I I remember, just looking at the faces of the dads, who's, who just watched their kid play baseball for the last time and, and that's a, a, a totally different experience.
00:29:17.269 --> 00:29:27.710
And I, and I'm saying to my I remember saying to myself-"Enjoy the next three years," because three years, you're gonna have one of those losses in all likelihood, and and you're gonna feel the same way.
00:29:28.109 --> 00:29:31.670
And, and it's, it's like being ripped away.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:42.430
I can tell you, it's gonna be very different, as a parent when when your kid stops playing sports altogether and all of a sudden becomes an, a former athlete as opposed to a current athlete.
00:29:42.819 --> 00:29:44.319
that's gonna be quite an adjustment.
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:55.069
so much of, of, of my parenting life is invested into watching my kid play baseball in various fields, various venues, all over the place.
00:29:55.289 --> 00:30:02.890
When that's over with, when that loss occurs, and, and there's not gonna be another game, that's gonna be really difficult.
00:30:02.970 --> 00:30:05.140
I, I, I can, I can see it already
00:30:06.391 --> 00:30:09.730
It's gonna happen as parents, we need to understand that.
00:30:10.451 --> 00:30:15.101
Someone's gonna tell your kid,"It's over," and that, and it sucks
00:30:15.377 --> 00:30:17.278
And sometimes that happens when they get cut from the team Yeah
00:30:17.718 --> 00:30:18.167
It does.
00:30:18.178 --> 00:30:24.028
it's it's but you as, as a person, you have to just get back up on a horse and you gotta move on.
00:30:24.488 --> 00:30:24.548
Right?
00:30:24.567 --> 00:30:28.688
You can't let it, you can't dwell on it or else everything's gonna pass you right by.
00:30:29.117 --> 00:30:32.478
Listen, I, I, I had a similar situation with you, in college.
00:30:32.938 --> 00:30:36.188
I, I was playing my, I had gone through a lot of things in college.
00:30:36.667 --> 00:30:38.928
I started off at Mississippi State, ended up at Maryland.
00:30:39.557 --> 00:30:40.018
Okay?
00:30:40.067 --> 00:30:41.317
I was in a really bad car wreck.
00:30:41.337 --> 00:30:43.387
I was paralyzed for a month and 10 days.
00:30:43.718 --> 00:30:46.228
I had to reteach myself how to hit and do all that stuff.
00:30:46.587 --> 00:30:58.978
My last at-bat against North Carolina in, in, in the ACC tournament, I came to the plate, had a chance to win it, and, I thought I hammered one, and I got underneath it, and I popped it up, and that was my last at-bat in college.
00:30:59.008 --> 00:30:59.708
I'll never forget it.
00:31:00.248 --> 00:31:07.498
I went to the, I'll be the first one to tell you, we shook hands, everybody, we went into the, the clubhouse, We were all miserable, and I was bawling like a a little baby.
00:31:08.647 --> 00:31:10.038
I didn't know if my career was done.
00:31:10.038 --> 00:31:11.067
I didn't know what was happening.
00:31:11.678 --> 00:31:12.008
But you...
00:31:12.057 --> 00:31:15.988
that emotions, those are tough on all of us, as athletes.
00:31:15.998 --> 00:31:17.877
And, and parents need to, they know that.
00:31:17.907 --> 00:31:26.907
They should know that, But it's hard on them, too, because it's the final, it's, it's, it's the final call for them, too, if their kids never play anymore.
00:31:27.438 --> 00:31:36.488
So, everything that we've been taught, or, or the, been a part of as a parent has now has now been like, let go also.
00:31:36.508 --> 00:31:37.988
So, athletes have to know that, too.
00:31:38.019 --> 00:32:02.349
I, I'd like to think, and I, and I, th- and I hope and think I'm gonna realize this at the, when that moment comes, when my kid's played his last game and I'm watching him on the field hugging his teammates and his coaches and, and walking off that field for the last time, I, I think I, I am gonna appreciate the sh- sheer joy that watching him brought, has brought me all these years since he was eight years old.
00:32:02.768 --> 00:32:04.288
You're gonna hurt, you're gonna hurt though, right?
00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:04.509
gonna hurt though, right?
00:32:04.509 --> 00:32:07.250
Oh, it's, it, it's gonna be like- like a piece of my heart ripped out.
00:32:07.509 --> 00:32:08.250
Are you kidding me?
00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:10.380
It's gonna be- Yeah it's gonna be awful in that respect.
00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:23.240
But I'm also gonna have the appreciation that this, you know, it, it's, it's it's, it's something you'll always remember, and, and cherish, but- you, you will feel the pang of, of, the, of the loss.
00:32:23.380 --> 00:32:24.500
It's not gonna be there anymore.
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:28.740
You're not gonna be able to go watch your kid play on a weekend, on a Saturday, afternoon.
00:32:28.869 --> 00:32:31.470
it just, you can you can watch other kids play.
00:32:31.490 --> 00:32:35.410
You can watch maybe down the road your grandkids play, but that's a long way off.
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:39.309
And, and it's, it's not as immediate as your own child.
00:32:39.670 --> 00:32:41.200
just, just how it is.
00:32:41.609 --> 00:32:51.630
and, and I like to think that, that we should let our kids know all the time how much joy we, we're having watching him or her play.
00:32:52.180 --> 00:32:54.037
I don't, I I don't think enough parents do that.
00:32:54.146 --> 00:33:08.666
uh, and we don't do it enough to just let the kids know no matter what the outcome is, win, lose, or, or draw, we're really proud of your effort, proud of your attitude, and, and so proud to be blessed to be sitting there watching you play.
00:33:09.156 --> 00:33:11.727
especially in my mind, I'm partial to baseball.
00:33:11.727 --> 00:33:14.346
and I think it's the hardest game try to hit a 90 mile an hour fastball.
00:33:14.346 --> 00:33:14.876
Good luck.
00:33:15.096 --> 00:33:21.356
ta- take the average guy who's not a baseball player off the street, put him in a box and have him, have him face some guy throwing 90.
00:33:21.646 --> 00:33:23.067
It, it's, it, it's...
00:33:23.836 --> 00:33:28.166
You, you take a football player who doesn't play baseball, ha- have him, have him try to face 90.
00:33:28.527 --> 00:33:30.086
It, it's, it's not gonna happen.
00:33:30.086 --> 00:33:32.576
It's just, it's gonna be an exercise in futility.
00:33:32.576 --> 00:33:33.856
It's a hard freaking game.
00:33:34.257 --> 00:33:36.477
And, and that's also what makes it great.
00:33:36.846 --> 00:33:39.116
The, the difficulty of it makes it great.
00:33:39.227 --> 00:33:42.967
If it was something that everybody could do, no big deal.
00:33:43.186 --> 00:33:47.576
But to actually do it well and play it well, when baseball's played well, it's a thing of beauty in
00:33:48.547 --> 00:33:51.557
you were talking about, I found it very interesting.
00:33:51.717 --> 00:33:58.666
You, you were talking about being able to be thankful and enjoy all the days, right?
00:33:58.666 --> 00:34:01.707
That you've gotten to watch your kids and being a part of it.
00:34:01.707 --> 00:34:04.676
And you ever notice, and, and this kinda drives me crazy.
00:34:04.686 --> 00:34:17.226
You ever notice, and I, and I see it on social media a lot, like all these videos, I don't know if they're AI or not, but there's always like something about like a kid and a parent and something happens to the kid.
00:34:17.666 --> 00:34:21.047
it gets to a car accident or a crash or something like that.
00:34:21.516 --> 00:34:30.246
And I know I'm talking about this and it's like kinda morbid, but, and then you watch the parents and they're like,"Oh my God, I wish I would've, I wish I would've said this.
00:34:30.266 --> 00:34:33.697
I wish I would've told them more." So why don't you?
00:34:34.836 --> 00:34:35.617
that's my question.
00:34:35.617 --> 00:34:42.746
Like, why are Like, why don't you just tell your kids how much you love them every day and how much you care about them?
00:34:42.777 --> 00:34:47.817
And that, that doesn't mean, like, you're raising weak children, right?
00:34:47.847 --> 00:34:48.867
That's just real.
00:34:49.467 --> 00:34:59.327
And now, like this all ties into sports,'cause eventually one day someone's gonna tell you it's over, And it, it kinda bothers me a little bit that I watch these things and the...
00:34:59.327 --> 00:35:01.976
and again, I I feel terrible, don't, don't get me wrong.
00:35:02.677 --> 00:35:05.097
But, like, why would you say, like...
00:35:05.097 --> 00:35:06.567
Why would you have to say that as a parent?
00:35:06.577 --> 00:35:07.577
I wish I would've.
00:35:08.007 --> 00:35:08.967
I wish I would've.
00:35:09.507 --> 00:35:10.697
Don't wish you would've.
00:35:11.027 --> 00:35:11.407
Do it.
00:35:12.137 --> 00:35:13.106
does that make sense?
00:35:13.885 --> 00:35:14.344
it does.
00:35:14.355 --> 00:35:17.545
personally, I, I don't plan on missing a pitch the rest of his career.
00:35:18.094 --> 00:35:18.155
Yeah, awesome.
00:35:18.164 --> 00:35:21.074
So, so, so I'm not gonna say I wish I went to that game.
00:35:21.074 --> 00:35:21.744
I'm gonna be
00:35:21.992 --> 00:35:22.702
That's awesome.
00:35:22.954 --> 00:35:25.724
but, but, I'm lucky enough to be able to do- Yes to do that.
00:35:25.764 --> 00:35:26.764
and Not everybody can.
00:35:26.864 --> 00:35:27.684
I get that, too.
00:35:28.094 --> 00:35:31.125
but I'm not gonna miss that opportunity.
00:35:31.494 --> 00:35:34.795
I, I'm I'm never gonna regret going to a game.
00:35:35.065 --> 00:35:36.965
I'm gonna regret not going to a game.
00:35:36.965 --> 00:35:37.385
Yeah.
00:35:37.385 --> 00:35:40.125
I'm, I'm, I'm never gonna regret, talking to my kid.
00:35:40.425 --> 00:35:41.855
I'm gonna regret not talking to him.
00:35:41.864 --> 00:35:45.554
the, some of the moments, even in, in the college, Dennis is almost 20 years old.
00:35:45.554 --> 00:35:46.494
He'll be 20 in October.
00:35:47.465 --> 00:35:49.355
I, I love going to an away game.
00:35:49.364 --> 00:35:56.461
I Went to a couple games in Vermont this year, and you have 5 or 10 minutes just talking to the kid before he gets on the bus going, going back.
00:35:56.791 --> 00:35:58.541
Then I have a four-and-a-half-hour drive home.
00:35:58.922 --> 00:36:06.322
but, but I, I I remember the 5 or 10 minutes after that, that one particular game against Castleton, it was great.
00:36:06.331 --> 00:36:06.992
It was wonderful.
00:36:07.052 --> 00:36:08.411
the kid was all, all beaming.
00:36:08.681 --> 00:36:11.532
He, he got the, the go-ahead hit in the ninth inning.
00:36:11.891 --> 00:36:18.481
we were up, by the way, that game, we were up 11-nothing the first inning, and we wound up lo- trailing 17-16 in the last inning.
00:36:18.481 --> 00:36:20.081
We wound up winning 18-17.
00:36:20.081 --> 00:36:20.101
Wow.
00:36:20.541 --> 00:36:21.632
But one of those games
00:36:21.925 --> 00:36:23.815
You saw a lot of hits, man a lot of hits.
00:36:23.865 --> 00:36:24.746
Or a lot of errors.
00:36:24.922 --> 00:36:25.347
A lot of errors.
00:36:25.347 --> 00:36:26.226
a little bit of both.
00:36:26.286 --> 00:36:30.336
But, but Castleton was a very good hitting team, UMass is a very good hitting team.
00:36:30.347 --> 00:36:32.496
It's On a weekday games, it is what it
00:36:32.836 --> 00:36:33.646
Yes, it is.
00:36:33.967 --> 00:36:41.027
I, I just, I just remembered, how much I enjoyed that maybe 10-minute conversation with my son after the game, and, priceless.
00:36:41.056 --> 00:36:47.427
you, you, I'm so happy that I actually made the drive to Vermont that ga- that, that day because I was able to do that.
00:36:47.436 --> 00:36:48.737
watch it and then talk to him.
00:36:49.246 --> 00:36:52.347
and, and and again, how do you put a, a price tag on something like that?
00:36:52.438 --> 00:36:53.329
Well, you're not fake.
00:36:53.378 --> 00:37:00.588
That's the biggest thing, and that's again, going back to this conversation, you're not a fake person, and you love being there, right?
00:37:00.628 --> 00:37:01.389
I understand it.
00:37:02.318 --> 00:37:03.989
that's what we're trying to tell parents, right?
00:37:04.048 --> 00:37:04.739
Don't be fake.
00:37:04.829 --> 00:37:05.748
Don't be fake with your kids.
00:37:06.298 --> 00:37:07.139
be, be real.
00:37:07.838 --> 00:37:08.778
Tell them how you feel.
00:37:08.798 --> 00:37:17.568
You love them, support them, understand that you guys are gonna get into it, whatever, but ultimately at the end of the day, you're there for each other, and that, that needs to be known.
00:37:18.451 --> 00:37:32.380
When your, when your team, when your kid's team faces a, a tough loss, how, how, how long should you wait before you, you sit down and talk the nitty-gritty with him, the details, what you could've done better, what you should've done better?
00:37:32.621 --> 00:37:34.681
how long do you, do you give to have that conversation?
00:37:34.842 --> 00:37:41.402
My, my style might be a little different, but I always allow him to come to me or them to come to me.
00:37:42.353 --> 00:37:43.623
I don't-- Even my daughter would cheer.
00:37:44.293 --> 00:37:47.913
if My, I know my wife handles all that, but, there's a lot of stress there.
00:37:48.503 --> 00:37:58.362
So I kinda, I kinda just go about replaying what happened in my own head and try to figure out a couple things.
00:37:58.382 --> 00:38:02.722
If I'm coaching, what do I need to do better as a coach to be able to help them get better?
00:38:03.773 --> 00:38:04.592
That's the whole team.
00:38:05.052 --> 00:38:11.052
And then of course I'm always gonna segment it,"Hey, what can I do to help my own kid?" Because you, you, you're a coach and a dad.
00:38:11.672 --> 00:38:12.032
It's hard.
00:38:13.103 --> 00:38:15.112
And then I'll just wait.
00:38:15.592 --> 00:38:30.603
And, and we've gotten into a rhythm, which I've-- I am very, very thankful- That all of my kids that play sports will eventually come to me and say,"Hey, Dad, can, can I ask you a question?" I'm like,"Sure.
00:38:30.603 --> 00:38:34.123
What's up, man?""Hey, You saw the game today, right?
00:38:34.132 --> 00:38:37.043
I was struggling with that fastball away.
00:38:37.253 --> 00:38:39.382
can we work on that?""Yeah, sure.
00:38:39.382 --> 00:38:47.822
When, when do you wanna go work on it?""Oh, let's go now.""Okay." I, I've gotten to a point where I think trust me enough.
00:38:48.012 --> 00:38:49.043
That's, that's the big one, right?
00:38:49.052 --> 00:38:52.882
They trust me enough to say to me when they're ready.
00:38:53.682 --> 00:39:08.373
Now I am not gonna lie to you, there have been plenty of times in my coaching career that, I have shown the frustration immediately, and that frustration immediately is not always good.
00:39:08.822 --> 00:39:24.322
Sometimes it is when I feel like when they're mad and you're mad over over a bad call or something that, you're, you're frustrated about that wasn't their fault, like, quote unquote, or your fault.
00:39:24.342 --> 00:39:27.092
you kinda gang up on it and you're like,"I wish...
00:39:27.092 --> 00:39:28.782
That, that guy blew that call.
00:39:28.813 --> 00:39:29.992
Man, that was so terrible.
00:39:29.992 --> 00:39:30.842
That was so terrible."
00:39:30.893 --> 00:39:39.282
Well, do you think how you react to, to losing teaches your kid how to react the right way and the wrong way to, to losing?
00:39:39.293 --> 00:39:39.302
100%.
00:39:39.487 --> 00:39:39.806
100%.
00:39:39.847 --> 00:39:40.146
100%.
00:39:40.467 --> 00:39:42.297
They see what you do, right?
00:39:42.297 --> 00:39:47.387
So, so I try to stay as calm as possible on the field.
00:39:47.777 --> 00:39:49.657
Listen, I, I get yelled at.
00:39:50.177 --> 00:39:51.327
Kev, you, you were there.
00:39:51.967 --> 00:39:55.097
I get criticized by parents all the time, right?
00:39:55.097 --> 00:39:57.137
Because they can always do a better job.
00:39:57.507 --> 00:39:59.016
They know the game better than you.
00:39:59.447 --> 00:40:00.427
They've seen more than...
00:40:00.476 --> 00:40:00.717
they...
00:40:00.766 --> 00:40:01.086
Come on.
00:40:01.166 --> 00:40:01.896
let's be real.
00:40:02.836 --> 00:40:10.027
I also have to be a professional when I'm out there because I'm representing our school and, more importantly, our players, right?
00:40:10.027 --> 00:40:10.987
And I'm a role model.
00:40:11.507 --> 00:40:26.177
They need to, they're gonna act the way I act Listen, okay, for instance and I'm not gonna say names, but there are plenty of other teams that we've played against that you've seen that the coach has been crazy and the team follows.
00:40:26.527 --> 00:40:36.996
Banging garbage bags, garbage pails, shaking rocks, throwing the, the, the language that some- you're like,"What are we doing?" why would you coach that way?
00:40:37.027 --> 00:40:39.166
But those are the, that's, that's the way they coach.
00:40:39.597 --> 00:40:41.666
Now, I don't agree with it, okay?
00:40:41.757 --> 00:40:48.577
And most parents don't agree with it, but that's The parents that allow their kids to go play for a coach like that, they agree with it.
00:40:48.648 --> 00:40:59.297
like that, they agree with it At the same time though, you wanna teach your kids, that losing is not acceptable, you, you, you really wanna teach your kids that you, you want to do everything within your power and control to win.
00:40:59.666 --> 00:41:05.702
you never never wanna get to the point where losing is blase and no big deal.
00:41:05.742 --> 00:41:15.612
used to drive one of my coaches crazy if, one time he saw a couple of my teammates hobnobbing, joking and laughing around right after a tough loss in, a, in, a, in a game.
00:41:15.911 --> 00:41:18.052
And our coach coach went, went nut.
00:41:18.702 --> 00:41:20.762
He, he went absolutely nuts that, that day.
00:41:21.112 --> 00:41:32.751
That, that same game, we were on the bus on the way home, back to school and, somebody asked him,"You, you, Coach, you, you want a tuna fish sandwich?" He took the tuna fish sandwich and he threw it to the ground.
00:41:32.751 --> 00:41:39.012
He said,"How can you talk about tuna fish sandwiches after that game?" this is, this is, It's natural to be angry.
00:41:39.012 --> 00:41:42.641
It's natural to be natural to be disappointed, and some of that is healthy.
00:41:42.692 --> 00:41:44.262
you don't wanna be happy after a loss.
00:41:44.492 --> 00:41:49.422
You you show me a kid who's happy after a loss, I'm gonna question his competitive spirit, right?
00:41:49.422 --> 00:41:49.431
Yeah,
00:41:49.666 --> 00:41:52.385
Yeah, and you, being-
00:41:52.442 --> 00:41:53.822
I, I, used it right there by the
00:41:53.985 --> 00:42:01.096
You Being, being passionate and, and caring is what it's about, right?
00:42:01.096 --> 00:42:01.965
You, you want that.
00:42:02.476 --> 00:42:04.655
You want a competitor and, and you're right.
00:42:05.516 --> 00:42:06.896
Nobody wants to lose.
00:42:06.945 --> 00:42:08.615
Nobody goes to play the game to lose.
00:42:08.615 --> 00:42:11.505
If you do, please do me a favor, go do something else.
00:42:11.755 --> 00:42:17.056
have you- had k-- have you had kids who couldn't care one way or the other whether they won, they won or lost?
00:42:18.250 --> 00:42:19.670
Should I, should I tell you the truth?
00:42:19.682 --> 00:42:20.226
tell you the truth?
00:42:20.226 --> 00:42:21.606
I, That's what I'm asking for, yeah.
00:42:21.606 --> 00:42:22.896
Don-don't tell me his name,
00:42:23.070 --> 00:42:26.369
no, I'm not gonna tell you, but yes, I, and, and I, and it's...
00:42:27.329 --> 00:42:30.139
I hate to say this, the truth is that it's been multiple times.
00:42:30.789 --> 00:42:31.420
And again,
00:42:32.141 --> 00:42:32.961
Multiple kids?
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:34.000
Multiple kids.
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:34.019
Multiple kids.
00:42:34.019 --> 00:42:34.760
Different years.
00:42:34.849 --> 00:42:35.460
different years.
00:42:35.809 --> 00:42:38.920
But again, it's, a lot of that stems from home.
00:42:39.742 --> 00:42:39.842
Different years.
00:42:39.842 --> 00:42:40.181
All right.
00:42:40.181 --> 00:42:41.472
Different years.
00:42:41.561 --> 00:42:41.862
But again, it's, a lot of that stems from home.
00:42:41.862 --> 00:42:42.326
So what do you tell a kid like that?
00:42:42.326 --> 00:42:47.402
If, if you, if you're thinking the kid really doesn't care whether he wins or not, what kind of conversation do you as a coach have with that kid?
00:42:47.427 --> 00:42:57.027
That's pretty, and I've had this conversation, so I'll just be like,"Hey, listen, we need to talk," and try to figure out really where his head space is and what, what he's thinking.
00:42:57.708 --> 00:43:00.717
And if he's again, they're gonna BS you, you know that.
00:43:00.878 --> 00:43:06.438
They're gonna be like,"Oh, no, Coach, I'm..." And I'm gonna be like,"Well, listen, first of all, your body language tells me you don't wanna be here.
00:43:07.018 --> 00:43:10.958
Second of all, you don't work hard at practice, and you're always late.
00:43:11.398 --> 00:43:14.827
You do, do me a favor, like, why are you wasting our time?
00:43:14.887 --> 00:43:15.887
you're wasting your own time.
00:43:16.358 --> 00:43:17.527
What are you passionate about?
00:43:17.978 --> 00:43:19.117
You passionate about cooking?
00:43:19.487 --> 00:43:24.228
Then go cook." But you gotta be, you gotta be real with them and say,"Listen, we don't have...
00:43:24.748 --> 00:43:38.443
we, I'm not here to babysit you." Oh, absolutely.
00:43:38.543 --> 00:43:39.893
I've seen it throughout the years.
00:43:40.094 --> 00:43:41.634
The, It's very, very simple.
00:43:41.934 --> 00:43:44.994
I've seen parents, be like distraught.
00:43:45.744 --> 00:43:52.003
And that sucks because the kids, now you gotta know, when they get in the car, oh my God, they're gonna be berated.
00:43:52.431 --> 00:43:57.132
So how do you handle, how, how do you, as a, does, a parent handle if you're disappointed, you're disappointed.
00:43:57.161 --> 00:43:58.572
you can't, you can't hide that.
00:43:58.612 --> 00:44:00.152
It, It, it, is a fact.
00:44:00.461 --> 00:44:02.981
but how do you express that to your in a, in a, in a healthy way?
00:44:03.074 --> 00:44:06.963
I, I'm gonna tell you, that's probably one of the hardest things as a parent that you have to do.
00:44:07.704 --> 00:44:16.233
You have to be able to hide that and put it behind you You have to be able to recover faster than the kid does from the time that he gets his bag and stuff like that and gets to the car.
00:44:16.744 --> 00:44:18.123
Now, when you get to the car- if you're those
00:44:18.128 --> 00:44:22.007
so those 10 minutes that, that that the coaches are talking to the kids after the game.
00:44:22.148 --> 00:44:22.378
Yeah.
00:44:22.717 --> 00:44:28.708
They're valuable for parents get your, get your mind right because your kid's gonna be coming off that field in 10 minutes.
00:44:28.708 --> 00:44:29.768
But you have 10 minutes.
00:44:29.967 --> 00:44:34.097
It's not immediate, so it's not like just instinctively you're gonna, you're gonna react.
00:44:34.097 --> 00:44:36.518
You have that 10 minutes to calibrate your, your own mind.
00:44:36.518 --> 00:44:37.177
"All Right.
00:44:37.188 --> 00:44:38.177
that was a tough loss.
00:44:38.568 --> 00:44:40.527
I'm really upset that we lost that game." Yeah.
00:44:40.838 --> 00:44:42.467
"I'm upset how, how Jimmy played.
00:44:42.467 --> 00:44:43.108
It was awful.
00:44:43.978 --> 00:44:49.237
How am I gonna react to Jimmy when he comes off the field?" That 10 minutes is actually important 10 minutes.
00:44:49.416 --> 00:44:49.585
Yeah.
00:44:49.585 --> 00:44:50.925
I, I think you just named it, right?
00:44:50.925 --> 00:44:52.545
It's Get your mind right time.
00:44:52.865 --> 00:44:53.626
That's perfect.
00:44:53.905 --> 00:44:54.476
but that's it.
00:44:54.565 --> 00:44:55.226
You, you...
00:44:55.356 --> 00:44:57.175
Listen, we're adults.
00:44:58.135 --> 00:45:00.746
You have to be able to, you gotta be able to control your emotions.
00:45:01.088 --> 00:45:05.318
I, I wanna, I wanna tell you a story, and I'm gonna get your feedback if I could.
00:45:05.387 --> 00:45:05.838
Okay.
00:45:05.927 --> 00:45:06.248
Oh, 100%.
00:45:06.318 --> 00:45:10.077
and and this, this is probably the, the, the toughest loss I ever had as a coach.
00:45:10.538 --> 00:45:14.088
I was coaching the Pearl 12U Little League team, All-Star team.
00:45:14.478 --> 00:45:15.858
Had a really great team that year.
00:45:15.907 --> 00:45:18.777
we had three top-notch pitchers.
00:45:18.788 --> 00:45:23.188
We had Ethan Lee, Ben Risponte, and, and Dennis, all really top-notch.
00:45:23.358 --> 00:45:28.068
Three of the probably seven or eight best pitchers in the whole county, and we had a good team.
00:45:28.728 --> 00:45:35.077
we were playing in the, in the same league as Haverstraw, though, and Haverstraw had Nicky Becker and, and a couple other kids who were really good.
00:45:35.597 --> 00:45:38.378
Jeffrey Diaz was tremendous as a 12-year-old player.
00:45:38.907 --> 00:45:43.938
But we, we lose to Haverstraw nothing to nothing in a tough game, and we're playing Stony Point.
00:45:44.108 --> 00:45:45.577
Mike Rooney Jr.'s on that team.
00:45:46.257 --> 00:45:47.597
And we were better than Stony Point.
00:45:47.657 --> 00:45:48.568
We should've beat them.
00:45:49.197 --> 00:45:52.827
Dennis pitches the game, pitches the whole game to the sixth inning.
00:45:53.188 --> 00:45:56.237
We're up He's at his pitch count limit.
00:45:56.617 --> 00:46:03.427
The number three batter hits a fly ball to center field which gets over the fence, so it's He's at 85 pitches, has to come out of the game.
00:46:03.898 --> 00:46:07.088
So fine, we're up two outs, nobody on.
00:46:07.248 --> 00:46:07.947
No problem.
00:46:08.427 --> 00:46:10.577
Well, it goes poorly.
00:46:10.657 --> 00:46:12.577
we we have, a pitcher comes in.
00:46:12.907 --> 00:46:18.568
He's a great kid, one of the most spirited kids I ever coached, and I, I loved him, and I hated to see what happened.
00:46:18.998 --> 00:46:22.307
But he comes in and has trouble throwing strikes.
00:46:22.307 --> 00:46:23.827
The umpire squeezes the zone.
00:46:24.137 --> 00:46:25.427
It becomes a postage stamp.
00:46:25.717 --> 00:46:29.168
He's throwing pitches on the corner, which are literally strikes, and he's not getting anything.
00:46:29.557 --> 00:46:31.507
So he walks a few, gives up a couple of hits.
00:46:31.898 --> 00:46:33.228
We wind up losing the game.
00:46:33.228 --> 00:46:40.788
They come back and, and tie it on a two out base hit, and then they beat us in extra innings by a couple of games, couple innings.
00:46:41.268 --> 00:46:57.188
The other team, Haverstraw, was watching that game, between Stony Point and Pearl River, and they were mimicking our guys' rally, rally cry rally chant, which I don't know the meaning of this, but it was"Reese's Reese's Puffs, Reese's Puffs, eat'em up, eat'em up, eat'em up.
00:46:57.518 --> 00:47:02.978
That was what the Pearl River kids would say every game, and they were mocking that in the in the stands.
00:47:02.987 --> 00:47:13.297
And the Haverstraw kids were being really, loudly supportive, of, of Stony Point and really derogatory and critical in a nasty way towards the Pearl River kids.
00:47:13.538 --> 00:47:17.307
And I'm watching this, I'm coaching and, and and watching this, unfold.
00:47:17.947 --> 00:47:18.927
Game is over.
00:47:18.927 --> 00:47:23.498
We lose in devastating fashion after just one out to go up up four.
00:47:23.927 --> 00:47:29.264
and Our kids are distraught.
00:47:29.353 --> 00:47:31.583
they're crying, they're, they're just really upset.
00:47:31.583 --> 00:47:32.673
The, the dream is over.
00:47:32.764 --> 00:47:34.923
The Williamsport is not happening for these boys.
00:47:35.523 --> 00:47:41.014
And I, I see the bunch of Haverstraw kids milling about in the Stony Point dugouts.
00:47:41.284 --> 00:47:50.304
And I know I'm an adult, but I, I was, I was so angry, I, I went over there and I screamed at the top of my lungs, I said,"You guys need to be better than that.
00:47:50.523 --> 00:47:51.143
You're better than that.
00:47:51.153 --> 00:47:52.733
You're too good a team for that nonsense.
00:47:52.764 --> 00:47:54.853
Be better." And I stormed off.
00:47:55.643 --> 00:48:11.974
The next day I got numerous online posts about this, this idiot, pervert coach who was, who was so angry that he couldn't control himself And, and, and there was a lot of Stony Point and Haverstraw parent comments that were harshly-
00:48:11.992 --> 00:48:12.782
I'm sure
00:48:12.824 --> 00:48:13.153
of that.
00:48:13.523 --> 00:48:14.414
What was your thought on that?
00:48:14.443 --> 00:48:15.094
Is that something that...
00:48:15.324 --> 00:48:17.983
Did I let my emotions get the best of me on that?
00:48:17.983 --> 00:48:23.273
Should I have just kept my mouth shut and swallowed it, or was I okay talking about that to the kids directly?
00:48:23.411 --> 00:48:25.021
So there's two ways to look at this.
00:48:25.161 --> 00:48:31.362
First of all, at that point, you felt you, you were, you were probably devastated that your team didn't
00:48:31.434 --> 00:48:32.293
To-to-totally
00:48:32.942 --> 00:48:36.322
And you were in a position where you thought you were gonna win.
00:48:37.501 --> 00:48:39.521
Dennis, your son, went out and did his job.
00:48:39.521 --> 00:48:39.702
the...
00:48:39.762 --> 00:48:46.501
Emotionally, there, there's a lot of positive things there, and then all of a sudden the switch turns and you end up losing.
00:48:47.211 --> 00:48:52.342
I understand as a coach that you that's very hard to just, to just turn off.
00:48:53.141 --> 00:48:59.672
The other side of this is I felt when I heard the story that this was like classless what they did.
00:48:59.681 --> 00:49:01.621
This was like bush league stuff, right?
00:49:01.961 --> 00:49:03.572
And, and the first thing that comes to
00:49:03.572 --> 00:49:06.152
I thought it was, but, but remember they, they were kids.
00:49:06.161 --> 00:49:07.771
Yeah, but, but
00:49:08.018 --> 00:49:09.478
but were they there with their coaches?
00:49:10.222 --> 00:49:10.409
there with their coaches?
00:49:10.409 --> 00:49:13.331
No, they were just o-on the field milling about.
00:49:14.128 --> 00:49:14.557
Okay.
00:49:14.617 --> 00:49:17.898
So again, I, I don't know how loud you were.
00:49:17.947 --> 00:49:18.018
I
00:49:18.074 --> 00:49:21.125
I was loud, loud enough for everybody to hear it Okay.
00:49:21.125 --> 00:49:28.204
So maybe- but the one thing I will say in my defense was that as much as I was compelled to, to do this, I did not use profanity.
00:49:28.380 --> 00:49:29.990
Yeah, So you-...you didn't curse at them.
00:49:30.010 --> 00:49:30.831
You were just...
00:49:31.251 --> 00:49:36.661
Again, maybe the tone might've been too much, but again, you're, you were emotional.
00:49:37.340 --> 00:49:43.121
And look, I'm gonna tell you something, and you're gonna laugh'cause you've known me long enough now, right?
00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:46.251
The word I use is decisive.
00:49:46.871 --> 00:49:52.070
When you decide that you're gonna do something, be decisive and do it, and do it right.
00:49:52.221 --> 00:49:53.351
Do it the way you need to do it.
00:49:53.990 --> 00:50:07.231
At that moment in time, you feel, you probably felt like those kids played a part in that loss, whether they did or they didn't, Because emotionally they, they were mentally getting into your kids' heads.
00:50:07.731 --> 00:50:15.251
They were doing that probably on purpose because they didn't want you guys to win, because they knew that you were a better team and that you could, you could beat them.
00:50:15.550 --> 00:50:20.331
We had Ethan Lee waiting in the wings to pitch, and he was a, he was a tough guy to, to face.
00:50:20.336 --> 00:50:20.646
Yeah.
00:50:20.646 --> 00:50:22.157
So, so you knew that.
00:50:22.487 --> 00:50:23.157
They knew that.
00:50:23.157 --> 00:50:25.697
So they were actually jumping on the bandwagon.
00:50:26.097 --> 00:50:37.157
Again, to me as a coach, I would've said something like to them after this whole thing like,"That, we should've never done that.
00:50:37.297 --> 00:50:49.617
You should never done that." Now, as an adult The reason why I think all of this went down the way it went down is because parents don't ever wanna hear their kids being criticized, and they're not gonna they can't listen in.
00:50:49.907 --> 00:50:57.527
But they probably weren't there, or they were there and they didn't hear the kids'cause they were probably in the back with their parents and doing this and talking.
00:50:57.927 --> 00:51:03.976
So look, I'm not gonna condone it, but I'm I totally understand because I've done it too.
00:51:04.764 --> 00:51:06.644
Ha- have you have you had, moments like that?
00:51:06.717 --> 00:51:11.617
I've had plenty of conversations as an adult coach, right, as a high school coach.
00:51:12.016 --> 00:51:15.717
Again, I don't think I've ever gotten to the point where, I was screaming at a team.
00:51:16.126 --> 00:51:17.347
like they're Like, we were playing St.
00:51:17.347 --> 00:51:21.117
Joe's a few years ago, and again, I love Jody.
00:51:21.117 --> 00:51:21.916
Like, he's awesome.
00:51:21.916 --> 00:51:23.177
Like we have a really good rapport.
00:51:23.476 --> 00:51:25.936
but these guys, like, they're just, they're crazy.
00:51:25.936 --> 00:51:31.387
Like, they're, they're so loud and obnoxious, like screaming at, at, at the kids.
00:51:31.387 --> 00:51:40.396
And like, kids were, like, putting girlfriends, like writing like girlfriends' names on their wristbands, of kids that like like on our team.
00:51:40.887 --> 00:51:43.646
And some of the things that were just coming outta their mouth.
00:51:43.646 --> 00:51:47.556
So the first thing I said is to the coach, I was like,"Dude, you gonna control these guys or what?
00:51:48.356 --> 00:51:55.367
Because this is, this is like push..." And he was like,"Oh, coach," And I, again, we've known each other for a while, and he's a good coach.
00:51:55.697 --> 00:52:01.536
The problem is, is, that unfortunately for him, when you turn around, there's a line of parents.
00:52:02.456 --> 00:52:08.456
And all the kids are there, and if you say something negative to these kids So I said something.
00:52:08.706 --> 00:52:09.447
I was like,"You know what, guys?
00:52:09.447 --> 00:52:13.036
It's funny." I was like,"I watch you guys, and you're really talented.
00:52:13.447 --> 00:52:17.597
But if I'm a college coach, I wouldn't sign any of you, not one of you.
00:52:18.056 --> 00:52:19.077
And you know what's crazy?
00:52:19.407 --> 00:52:23.286
There's probably college coaches walking around here that you don't ever, you don't ever see.
00:52:23.876 --> 00:52:25.166
You don't even know they're here.
00:52:25.956 --> 00:52:33.456
But unfortunately, what's gonna end up happening is in a, in a year from now, you're all gonna be wondering why you didn't get asked to play or why you didn't get a scholarship.
00:52:34.077 --> 00:52:37.996
And it's gonna come down to this moment right now that you're out here acting the way you do.
00:52:37.996 --> 00:52:40.317
Because I'm gonna tell you right now, I used to be a college coach.
00:52:40.706 --> 00:52:43.237
There is no way that I would take any of you that wanna be a...
00:52:43.487 --> 00:52:44.657
and put them on my team." When was
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:46.159
So when, when was this conversation?
00:52:46.387 --> 00:52:49.507
That, that was during Like, I was literally walking to third base.
00:52:49.539 --> 00:52:50.179
how long ago?
00:52:50.936 --> 00:52:53.067
Oh my God, it was what, five years ago.
00:52:53.706 --> 00:52:59.547
Don't you think that, that sometimes, a loss is, is a foundation for major victory?
00:53:00.117 --> 00:53:07.277
I, I, I remember the, I, I hate to, to go, to constantly go back to Don Bosco, but it's, it's what's in my head.
00:53:07.677 --> 00:53:09.956
we lost a devastating game to Delbarton.
00:53:10.016 --> 00:53:11.706
It was Dennis' junior season 2024.
00:53:11.757 --> 00:53:12.137
Ooh, that was
00:53:12.356 --> 00:53:15.617
we were winning 7-3, and, Delbarton just kept coming.
00:53:16.007 --> 00:53:21.117
Miles Handy hits a triple in the right center field gap, and we, we lose 9-7.
00:53:21.166 --> 00:53:23.117
And boys, the boys were devastated.
00:53:23.126 --> 00:53:24.126
That was the end of the season.
00:53:24.137 --> 00:53:24.677
That was it.
00:53:24.686 --> 00:53:26.686
The, the jerseys get ripped off.
00:53:27.217 --> 00:53:52.150
But I, I think the entire 2025 season The, the boys learned from that loss, and I think everyone committed to themselves,"We're gonna do everything in our power to not let that happen again, to not feel that way again on, on our field." And, and I think the, the following year, 2025, we're down 6-1 to Delbarton, the bottom of the fifth inning with the bottom of the order coming up, and we beat them.
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:53.269
We came back.
00:53:53.719 --> 00:53:57.369
I don't think we beat them if we don't lose the, the year before.
00:53:57.820 --> 00:54:09.510
I think that loss, that, that built a, a quality of character in those kids that, that, that they realized that they had it within themselves to do what they needed to do, and they kept pushing and pushing, pushing.
00:54:09.929 --> 00:54:15.480
They had one through nine operating that, that last inning in the, in the bottom of the fifth down 6-1.
00:54:15.900 --> 00:54:17.739
seven, eight, and nine all get on base.
00:54:18.099 --> 00:54:23.960
and then, then Chase Bailey gets a big hit, and then Nicky Becker hits one into the trees in left field.
00:54:24.030 --> 00:54:29.619
All of a sudden, 6-1 deficit becomes 6-6, and at that point you knew we were gonna win that
00:54:29.820 --> 00:54:31.320
you weren't stopping the train then.
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:32.349
There's no way.
00:54:32.389 --> 00:54:37.989
But, but I but I think the loss of, of, that, of that previous year really helped that team.
00:54:38.320 --> 00:54:40.309
I I think they, they, they learned from that.
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:41.119
They grew from it.
00:54:41.449 --> 00:54:50.949
Nick Gilpin, who was the pitcher who gave up the, the the, the, the big hit to Miles Handy as a junior, he came in, as a as a senior, and th- they weren't smelling him.
00:54:51.320 --> 00:55:04.619
he had a mindset and, and that, that look in his eyes on the, on the mound, you can see that, that he was gonna attack and do what he needed to do to, to get to to the To the victory point, and that's what happened.
00:55:05.099 --> 00:55:08.239
and I think, I think the same thing holds true for Delbarton.
00:55:08.250 --> 00:55:12.230
If You look, the 2025 team lost to us in a devastating fashion.
00:55:12.260 --> 00:55:14.349
They were up 6-1, in the fifth inning.
00:55:14.969 --> 00:55:18.599
They, they probably think they win that game 99 out of 100 times.
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.079
They were up five runs with only two innings, three innings to go.
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:23.750
Delbarton comes back this year, what do they do?
00:55:23.820 --> 00:55:25.269
They win a state championship.
00:55:25.699 --> 00:55:31.219
I think those kids learned from the loss to us and, and that helped propel them their season.
00:55:31.670 --> 00:55:41.659
so it's interesting how, how we, we always think losses are awful things to happen, but sometimes it's a platform, which you, which you grow and learn.
00:55:42.050 --> 00:55:50.199
I, I think, I think all of our kids, the, the Don Bosco kids in 2025, they learned how to deal with that kind of pressure.
00:55:51.389 --> 00:56:10.135
And one thing I remember Dennis telling me after the CBA game, he said,"Dad, I, I gotta tell you," he said,"I've never felt that kind of pressure in my whole life, and, I don't think I'll ever feel like that, like that again." And I think it's probably true for the finals of the state championship game, non-public A there's more pressure in, in that game than any game he's ever played in college.
00:56:11.385 --> 00:56:21.076
And, And and in fact, he, he, he told me that after he, he, he, he, he busted into the starting lineup, midway through the season as, a freshman.
00:56:21.436 --> 00:56:23.806
And I said to Dennis, I said,"You came up, you came up, huge.
00:56:23.835 --> 00:56:43.846
Way to go." I said, he, he looks at me and he, and he, and he gave me a smile and said,"Yeah, Dad, I've played in big games before." And I love that answer because, it was just, he has learned through, through, through, through adversity that, it's not the end of the world whatever you do, but you tr- you wanna try your best and, and do your best.
00:56:44.266 --> 00:56:52.115
But when the pressure's on and you have to have to perform, you you do have it within you to rise up and, and, and achieve great things.
00:56:52.585 --> 00:57:04.666
And, and I love, I love that about the, the Bosco program and I think, I think Mike Rooney, Mike Dwyer, Jim Wadika, and, and Brian Jalali, I think they all teach these kids that lesson.
00:57:04.695 --> 00:57:13.155
And it's such a rare lesson that a that a lot of coaches can't convey, and they as a program really convey that in my mind brilliantly.
00:57:13.206 --> 00:57:26.556
so one of the things that I always tell the guys from a loss, I said,"Just remember how it feels Say,"Just remember how you feel after a loss." And they're always like,"Coach, man, it sucks." I'm like,"Yeah, just remember it.
00:57:27.065 --> 00:57:29.516
And just keep storing it away, right?
00:57:29.516 --> 00:57:49.255
And, and the more that you, you, you you remember this, the less you're gonna wanna feel like that." And they're like,"That makes sense, Coach." Said,"You like winning, right?" They said,"We love it." I said,"Well, you gotta lose sometimes to figure out what it feels like so that you get the burn to make sure that you don't lose.
00:57:50.246 --> 00:57:51.626
That's just what it comes down to.
00:57:52.436 --> 00:57:57.275
So if you love winning, then, then you'll understand what we're talking about." And they get it.
00:57:57.536 --> 00:58:13.476
They, they totally get it, but there is no winning without figuring out the losses,'cause you gotta go through that, the, those, that tribulations, trials and tribulations to get good enough to make sure that you go out there and you can win a lot.
00:58:13.865 --> 00:58:17.795
So you learn a lot from those losses, and that's what this is all about.
00:58:18.771 --> 00:58:21.032
Well, there are some people who learn a lot from losses.
00:58:21.081 --> 00:58:24.632
There are other people probably who don't learn a damn thing, right?
00:58:24.731 --> 00:58:25.811
They don't last very long.
00:58:26.012 --> 00:58:26.052
Yeah, so.
00:58:26.762 --> 00:58:26.771
so.
00:58:27.742 --> 00:58:30.172
And, and that's true of life, not just sports.
00:58:31.492 --> 00:58:32.231
you learn.
00:58:32.731 --> 00:58:38.072
as an attorney, I can tell you, sometimes the best lessons I learned were from devastating losses.
00:58:38.492 --> 00:58:40.442
and I looked and say,"Well, what did I do wrong here?
00:58:40.442 --> 00:58:44.322
What could I have done differently?" And the next time, I'm gonna do it better.
00:58:44.692 --> 00:58:47.922
and and you learn, and, and you adjust, and you grow.
00:58:48.601 --> 00:58:48.713
grow or die.
00:58:48.713 --> 00:58:48.788
That's it.
00:58:48.788 --> 00:58:49.114
That's it.
00:58:49.155 --> 00:58:49.905
grow or die.
00:58:50.309 --> 00:58:50.898
That's it.
00:58:50.898 --> 00:58:51.579
That's it.
00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:52.409
Grow and die
00:58:52.505 --> 00:58:52.755
Right.
00:58:54.505 --> 00:58:57.355
Joe, this is always interesting, always fun.
00:58:57.445 --> 00:58:58.844
I hope you enjoyed this conversation
00:58:59.021 --> 00:58:59.971
Always fun, Cap
00:59:00.135 --> 00:59:02.844
I, did, and I can't wait for next week.
00:59:02.875 --> 00:59:04.594
Next week, you gonna tell us something?
00:59:04.985 --> 00:59:05.835
So yeah.
00:59:05.835 --> 00:59:18.585
So next week everybody needs to tune in because, we have a, I'm gonna have a special announcement and I got, I got a couple of secrets that I wanna let loose next week, to all the people that have been, supporting us and watching us and, it's gonna be a lot of fun.
00:59:18.585 --> 00:59:23.315
I'm excited about it and, make sure you guys tune in and, and, we'll see you next week, Cap.
00:59:24.829 --> 00:59:25.849
That I'll be here.
00:59:26.079 --> 00:59:28.898
I'm, I'm, I'm like the Joe, Joe, I'm like the furniture.
00:59:28.898 --> 00:59:30.458
You, you, you'll find me here.
00:59:30.949 --> 00:59:39.068
to our audience, keep following, keep sharing, keep sending this podcast to your friends, if you, if you're enjoying it and keep moving forward.
00:59:39.289 --> 00:59:39.958
Thanks so much.
00:59:40.382 --> 00:59:40.693
Thank you.
00:59:40.742 --> 00:59:42.902
Thanks for joining us for another episode of FWrd.
00:59:43.282 --> 00:59:50.922
If today's conversation helped you, we'd love for you to subscribe and share it with someone who cares about developing better athletes and better people.
00:59:52.103 --> 01:00:01.213
FWrd is a Hard Knock Press publication where we're building books, conversations, and ideas that challenge conventional thinking and help people grow.
01:00:02.353 --> 01:00:04.842
Until next time, keep moving forward