FKN Classics Double Feature! James True - Evolution Archetypes | Joshua Cutchin - Tricksters

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Enjoy these back-to-back classic forbidden knowledge news episodes. Today I
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want to welcome back to the show James True. He
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is an author and philosopher whose work pushes the boundaries
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of philosophy, mythology, and consciousness. James, welcome back. How you doing?
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Great.
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How about yourself?
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Excellent, man.
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Looking forward to this. I really enjoy our discussions, and
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today I wanted to get your thoughts on the emergence
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of These modern Gnostic interpretations of the nature of reality,
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I know when I started to become aware of the
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depth of programming and illusion that we participate with, it
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brought me to a pretty dark place for a little while.
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And I imagine this is happening for many people right now,
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especially if they're just starting to become aware of these things.
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And I can understand why they may feel like we're
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on an iconic prison plan at Loose Form. Like I said,
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I've been there, but I couldn't stay there. I've always
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felt that there's much more to it, which we're going
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to get into today. And this is a big topic,
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but before we get into this, remind the audience just
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a little bit about yourself and let them know where
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they can find you. Yeah.
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My name's James.
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I run a Loosh farm. I collect signal. I'm a writer.
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I'm on my seventh book. I do a live stream,
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but mostly I just, I focus on writing. My latest
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book is Black Eye Club, which is, deals with the
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ability that the eye is a wound itself. So we're
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seeing into a realm that is causing us pain. And
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the better we get at seeing pain, the more clearly
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we see the reality that we have now. So that's
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kind of my shtick right now. We can get right
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back into the topic. But yeah, that's basically who I am.
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And that's what I do.
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So great to be here.
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And I do want to explore a little bit of
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what you're writing about in the Black Eye Club as well.
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But Where I'd like to start today is, do you
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notice more people aligning with these kind of dark Gnostic beliefs?
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Of course.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I think, uh, I've noticed it a while and, um,
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I've tried to entertain it as much as I can because, uh,
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quite frankly, part of what I do requires me to
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talk about ideas that, uh, other people find interesting. And
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I've always been on the outskirts, pushed aside because I
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don't have the same kind of outlook as those have. However,
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as someone who's studied Gnosticism, for example, I've actually did
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a presentation on this over why it was so dark initially.
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Why it's so important for people to feel this idea
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of a looch farm or a prison planet. In my mind,
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this is the emergence of a different thought. matrix or
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a different bandwidth, I should say, of understanding. Our feelings
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are maybe best understood as fieldings, as emotional electricity, and
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that over time our frontal lobe had to develop enough calories,
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enough juice to even be able to interpret emotions as
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being separate from the psyche. I'm talking about a time
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where You would enter into an animalistic type state, and
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you would not necessarily know that you were having emotions.
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You were the emotion, right? And so over time, we
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learned to separate ourselves from these things, to hold on
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to our conscious center, as it were, and to start
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to notice that our conscious center had an emotional weather
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to it. So my interpretation, Chris, is quite frankly, if
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this isn't too advanced or too wordy, I should say,
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is that in my mind, this is the emotional world
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coming online. And it looks like this world that's being
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described in this prison planet-y kind.
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Of a Lucius way.
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It's accurate, but it's more, in my opinion, it's more
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accurate to our own fielding state, to our own presence
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and our own understanding of the world around us.
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So maybe we could go back to our ancient past
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as far as your understanding goes. Were we always in
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this dreamlike state? Were we always unaware and disconnected from
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our true emotional state? Or was there something that came along?
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An etheric parasite? Maybe we did it to ourselves?
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In my mind, the biggest.
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Catalyst.
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for human consciousness is actually our bicameral state. That a
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long time ago, something clever inside of us decided that
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if it could create two of the same thing and
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have them run alongside each other, this would be a
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more accurate way of surviving in the world. And this
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comes about not just by you having two arms, but
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by you having two lobes to your brain. The bicameral
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mind is a theory that the first mental steps that
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we took were from this lobe-centric state. The left brain
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was its own self. The right brain was its own self.
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And the corpus callosum, the connecting tissue that connects the
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two lobes, takes thousands of years to connect to itself.
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And during that period, you're watching a conscious consciousness, a
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bicameral consciousness come online in a place where it wasn't before.
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I think that both minds were hearing goats, not trying
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to be dramatic, but literally voices in their own heads.
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And that this voice was the other mind reaching.
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Through to the other side.
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As we practice this bicameral state, our consciousness became more polarized.
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One brain became more dominant because it was just helpful.
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One became more submissive because it was helpful. So you
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have the intuition and the extuition, if we could just
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use that word for now, your egoic self, that those
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two things became intuition and extuition because of the attrition
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between the two lobes. That over time, they realized that
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you and I can work better If one of us
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is the dominant and the other is the subordinate. So
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your intuitive voice got softer over time and your egoic
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voice got louder over time. And I believe that this
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is who we are now, that where we are right now,
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it's not an end state. It is a transitory state
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that we're watching as the bicameral mind is becoming more
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polarized and more just, uh, footed in itself, so to speak.
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This flipping can be seen through the frontal lobe stretching
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to the front and the hindbrain or the midbrain stretching
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to the back. You have two different systems. One is
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a time machine that looks in the past. Your spirit
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animal is constantly adding all the pain that you've ever endured.
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And telling yourself, never fucking step there. Never put this
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fire in your mouth. Never put this spear up your butt.
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You know, all the lessons that we've learned, the hindbrain
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is remembering all the pain. That's sort of like your
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backwards time machine. It's only looking at where you've been.
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And then you have this other brain that's only looking
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to where it thinks you could go. The Promethean frontal lobe.
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The place of placebo. The place of fantasy. The place
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where we lie. All of these things are our future
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self trying to cast itself into the future using the
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wisdom of the past. And I'm just describing to you
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how that bicameral mind turned elongated. And it went into
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an extuitive frontal self and an intuitive receptive self. And
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this is what our personalities are. So all the feelings
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that we have now, which are much more complex than
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they've ever been, simply the field states the relationships that
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the two lobes have between each other and the more
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comfortable we become with our feelings the more we're able
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to utilize the equipment in our cockpit and navigate a clearer.
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Reality what do you think it looked like for humanity
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before we had this split that you were just discussing
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what would that human essentially be like Yeah.
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Great question.
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So if you don't have a strong X tuition, then
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I think you're looking at like an outward self. You're
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looking at something more akin to like a beast of
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burden kind of concept where you've got a bull, right?
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It's like an 800 pound, 1200 pound bull. And a
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one by four is keeping it inside of a pin
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that it doesn't take much, even though they're super powerful,
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that The bicameral early man, and I don't need to
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call it bicameral because bicameral is its own study. I'm
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just trying to kick that off. But early man was
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a less violent, still dangerous, but a less extuitively violent creature.
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He was more animistic. I think the word serf, a serf,
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would be about as close as you could come to
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understanding that now, Chris. The idea that It's not a slave,
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but there's these people that they're sort of autonomous, but
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they really just came grounded in the land. And if
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you bought property and it had serfs on it, it's
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sort of like you're buying a bunch of mushrooms that
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are already growing there. And by law, you're required to
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allow them to grow. So it's that kind of mentality
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where the individual hasn't risen out of just the contextual
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environment themselves. They don't even necessarily know. I'm not even
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speculating here. If you go back into early cave art,
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early archaeological art, man is expressed last through painting. Second
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to last is landscape. which means the very first things
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we were drawing were things that attracted us limbically, the bison,
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the animals, these things that we ate, these things that
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we hunted. Everything else, in my opinion, because I can't
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prove this, we don't have any autopsy records of what
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the brain actually looked like back then, But from my understanding,
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if you're looking at early man, you're not looking at
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someone that even saw the same reality we do, Chris.
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That you and I see the landscape and we think
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it's a thing. We actually think it's this place and
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we call it a planet and some of us call
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it a planet, whatever. And we have dirt on it
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and all this other stuff. But the early man did
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not even have the contextual understanding of separating himself from
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that thing. This is kind of what you see in species.
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A lot of species have this sort of similar kind
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of consciousness. They look autonomous, but they're not really. They're
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more just grounded into the land. So this early man
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was much tamer, much more animistic. When you look back
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at Rome and.
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You're like, what are you guys doing?
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And they're like, every month we're having a giant phallus
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run down the street. A bunch of people are running,
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chasing after it, raping women. And we're just calling this society.
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And that's called it.
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A Leukopalia or Bacchanalia or all the other studies. This is,
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I think, just our early mental state. We're just seeing
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traces of that. It was much more animistic, meaning that
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it was almost like playtime on a kindergarten in the
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playground where you kind of lose yourself because you're having
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so much fun. I want you to picture that, but
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just older with the ability to practice violence. I think
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that's really probably what early men look like. And it
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even went into their vision too. I'll stop now because
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I'll keep talking. But even the colors they saw were
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much different than we see now, like much different.
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Did we go from that to having these spiritual beliefs
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that included gods and external entities and beings after this
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split from our consciousness? And are these beings a creation
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like egregores from our own emotion and energies?
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I think what really propelled us the most is the
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concept of hypothetical. If you're hearing a voice that's not
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in your head, but it's next to your head, so
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if your left lobe is talking to your right lobe
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and you are hallucinating the auditory signal, which is what
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a voice in your head is, you're hearing yourself think,
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that thinking is probably just coming from the other lobe.
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And you're broadcasting as an auditory signal because you just
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want to hear it.
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That's all.
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So you're just giving the voice in your head. It's
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really not a voice, is it? It's more of a
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chemical squeeze, really. And we turn that chemical squeeze into
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a voice. So back then, when you have two lobes
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that are equal, I don't think there was a lot
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of intuitive voices because you didn't have a self to
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even think that there was a voice. You just would
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just hear sounds. You wouldn't necessarily know who was what.
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This is what I mean by beast of burden kind
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of mentality. Like if you picture a bear, super powerful,
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if you bang two pots together, the bear's like, oh
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my God, and he runs away. Like it's like super powerful,
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but it runs away because it does not have this
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egoic self, this sort of like stabilized consciousness that's able
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to interpret, hey, that's just a loud sound.
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I don't need to bug out. I'm much more powerful.
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So this early mind lacked a lot of these tools,
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a lot of these skills. And one of those skills
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was the ability to abstract, the ability to conceptualize and say,
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This creature is running this way and it has a
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trajectory of X and a speed of Y and it
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will make it to this point at Z. This learning
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of trajectory and the teaching of two brains competing with
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voices is actually teaching us the ability to abstract, to hypotheticalize.
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Our neurons are able to compute things that haven't happened yet.
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This is a big deal. This is the birth of God.
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Because it's the verse of the hypothetical. The invention of the, Chris,
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the word the, it really says it all. Because the tree,
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the house, the keys, the coffee, these are hypotheticalizing a
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conceptual notion. And this is such a big, huge advancement
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in us that we didn't have before. And as it
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came online, we called it God. Theism, think about it.
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The word theism is just theism. It is the worship
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of thee. So it's really the hypothetical objective construct is
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a skill, a platonic skill that our phonological loop, you
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could call it that, a part in our mind that
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has the ability to abstract space, that by doing that,
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you have no choice but to invent God too. That
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it just comes with the territory because the hypothetical is
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now a new realm that hasn't existed before. And that
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hypothetical needs to have some sort of face to it.
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And that face to it is what we call God.
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Well, going a little deeper into the thought forms or egregores,
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if you look in our modern age, we have the
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paranormal field, which includes what people understand as ghosts, spirits, aliens, extraterrestrials.
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Would these also be considered manifestations of our consciousness that
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kind of took on lives of their own and Maybe
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there's an ecosystem of it out there now. Yeah.
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Yeah, that's personally where I'm at.
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When I look at the true meaning of even what
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Jesus is, believe it or not, is a necromancer, someone
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who was able to see the demonology that others could not.
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That's really all that word means. So you have someone
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that's able to see the emotional body of someone in
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a world where other people could not see the emotional
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body of that person. And we just call that Christianity.
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We call it compassion. But if you understand compassion is
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just a sonar. It's just the ability to look at
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someone and to see themselves as a reef. You and
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I are just reefs. We're being occupied by agency. The
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agency is our neurological competitive army that has built what's
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called a Zeus, right? A singular form. would just be
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all of the agency, the neurological agency in yourself, deciding
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and forcing itself to follow one central leader. And this leader,
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we would call the ego or the joystick of the
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self or whatever. I don't need you to say it's ego.
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I'm just saying it's some sort of conceptual idea of
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what we call the self. And that this concept, this
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is the uber us inside of our form. And as
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this form, we're learning to understand that our feelings themselves
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are animized, i.e.
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Alive, i.e.
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Ghosts in our machine. Addiction, alcoholism, trauma, PTSD, hauntings, bad
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memories that we're having trouble being cheated on, all these
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things are creating emotional algorithms that that live in our
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reef like fish in a reef. They occupy our bones.
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More importantly, they literally, I personally think that smell, olfactory,
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is all these things. So when I'm telling you these things, Chris,
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I want you to know that I physically feel like
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I have the chemistry to back this up, that the
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olfactory chemo signals are smells, the pheromones, some of you
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might know that word. This is really the the possessive
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nature of all demons, the smells that occupy us are
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a kind of haunting. And that this haunting is just
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chroma colors, which is just DNA codons. So it's just
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the colors of your DNA are just smells. And these
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smells are occupying you and possessing you. And this is
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the egregore of really who you are. You are one
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giant possession that you call the self. And within that self,
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it is multiplexed. full of separate possessions, who your mom
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thinks you should be, who society thinks you should be,
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who your wife thinks you should be, who your kids
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think you should be. All these would be different eager
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gores living inside the same reef, occupying the same space
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and insisting that they are the ones that is in
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charge or has the identity of the whole place, which
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is kind of healthy. You want a fish to feel autonomous.
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You want an eel to feel autonomous. And all the
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egregores that we see are just simply a very healthy
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reef expressing itself. So to close this up, in my mind,
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if you're not possessed, something's wrong with you. Like in
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my mind, if there's not a ghost, right, that's occupying
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your shell, you're probably not online. There's probably more of
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a sign that something's going wrong.
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Would you say that what has been occurring is a
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natural state of human evolution that we may be going
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in the right way? Essentially, it just looks really weird.
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Yeah, I think if you imagine what it feels like
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to be a philodendron, just anything that grows, I just
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pick philodendron. But if you imagine what it's like to
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be a philodendron and you're watching it, if you could
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speed time up, I'd like you to pretend just for
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a moment that you're hearing the plant scream. That as
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it's being stretched, right, as it's being pulled longer than
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it's ever been before, as it's being insisted that, no,
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you can go all the way up here. The sound
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it's making inside is, oh, fuck! It's a painful experience
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to grow. Not painful in a negative way. it's evil way,
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but in a limbic loudness kind of a way, right?
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That this has a lot of amperage to it that
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causes me to grow. So most of our emotional timber
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that we feel in the world, the emotional things that
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we call caustic or too loud, most of those, in
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my opinion, are simply growth spurts. That we're just expressing
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the natural geography that changed. Our terrain changed. We became
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more perforated, believe it or not. We'll skip that term
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for now. But believe it or not, we became more
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perforated with light, which means that the universe is able
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to inform us more than we've ever been before. And
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it kind of feels like rape. It just kind of does.
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It just feels that way. And so we insist that
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the world is out to get us because it feels
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that way because we are being stretched in a place
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where we would never consciously, personally stretch ourselves. It took
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the environment to encourage us to stretch in order to survive.
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And this is what every philodendron goes through every single day.
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The difference is we do not emote what they are
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going through the same way we emote what each other
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is going through, which is the same thing, I think.
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Well, let's deconstruct some woo-woo concepts that people hear and
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probably dismiss right away. But I know that there is
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something to it because I've experienced it myself. First of all,
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the power of perspective and how this can manifest certain
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outcomes in your life. I had a perfect example of
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this yesterday. I told you I got in a wreck,
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a little fender bender. Well, it was funny. When it happened,
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it happened so fast. All I know was that my
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truck hit a car and I had something explode into
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my face. The seconds following... I had this rush of
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feelings that I used to have in my early 20s, teenager,
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when I was royally fucking up life, when I was
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probably drinking and driving. I probably got into a couple
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of fender benders because I was doing something stupid. And
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all those feelings immediately came back for like a split second.
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And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to jail.
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It's all over. And then I just started to slow down,
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look around and realize, wait, I was doing everything right.
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somebody hit me and they had witnesses across the street
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saying that they saw everything. And it was such a
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strange feeling to have that quick flip in perspective because
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I've been living my life pretty damn well. I'm in
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a really good state right now. My life's going pretty
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damn well. So I really didn't have anything to be
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worried about, but to have that split second experience of
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being brought back to that stupid teenager and And where
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I was then compared to where I'm at now, it
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was an incredible feeling, and I was just grateful after that.
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But it carries over into everything I do, and it
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really propels me in a certain direction and brings good
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things to my life if I have a good perspective
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on things. What are your thoughts on that?
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I couldn't agree more. Just to find a way to
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talk about it, I refer to it as posture. And
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that when you have the proper posture in life, everything
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that happens to you is going to take less calories
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than if you had a poor posture. And so if
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the calories are there, you're going to be generous. And
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if the calories are not there, you're going to be.
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Selfish and cruel.
395
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And so in my mind, everyone, the entire world levels
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up when our posture improves. The entire world levels down
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when our posture devolves. But it's a little bit more
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complicated than that because, Your posture is a strategic form
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of survival. So I'm not here to say you have
400
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shady posture.
401
00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:47.359
You got to fix it.
402
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.700
I'm here more to just look at how our posture
403
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is a requirement for us to interpret our signal. It's
404
00:23:54.250 --> 00:23:56.910
kind of like an antenna. If your antenna is looking
405
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like a question mark, if it's curled over, then you're
406
00:24:00.529 --> 00:24:03.650
only going to be attracting questions. So doubt will be
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00:24:03.690 --> 00:24:05.970
something that's attracted to you. If you are like an
408
00:24:06.049 --> 00:24:10.829
exclamation point, You're only going to be collecting exclamations, things
409
00:24:10.869 --> 00:24:13.970
that excite you, things that propel you forward. So two
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00:24:14.029 --> 00:24:16.609
people are in the same room. One is crouched, one
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is sitting up straight, and they're living in two different
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realities in the same space.
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In my mind, this is actually the true nature of reality.
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Reality is not objective as we think it is. The
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deeper what's really happening is, is that reality is a
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source signal that each of us kind of interpret based
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on the amount of comfort that we can find interpreting
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it more precisely. So the closer we look, the higher
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in radiation the truth comes in, the more it burns
420
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our eyes out, and the more prone we are to
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look less. So you're looking at a bunch of different
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00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.779
people that are living in the same chemistry, but they
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have a different aperture. They have a different posture. And
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because of that, they're able to see more of the
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picture or less of the picture. Those who can see
426
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more of the picture are going to be able to
427
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create a better simulation for themselves. In other words, a
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better equation to propel themselves further and will do better.
429
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And those who do not will have a weaker equation
430
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.240
that will lead to more denigration. And if you just
431
00:25:16.380 --> 00:25:19.539
add these up moment after moment after moment after moment,
432
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it's easy to see how destiny really plays a vital role.
433
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based on where your spine is, based on where your
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posture is. So in my mind, it really comes down to,
435
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all of it comes down to electrical calories. How prepared
436
00:25:33.250 --> 00:25:37.109
are you for being hit from behind in a vehicle?
437
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Do you have all your ducks in a row where
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as soon as you do, When your state starts to shake,
439
00:25:43.579 --> 00:25:47.160
your higher assemblage point is removed because you're hit. Something
440
00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:49.839
surprises you. You've been taken out of the power seat,
441
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which is that I have control over all things. So
442
00:25:52.220 --> 00:25:55.319
something has occurred that hasn't. You instantly go into the
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00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.779
keep of your castle, which means what's the last stable
444
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:00.700
state that I have where it felt like I could
445
00:26:00.740 --> 00:26:03.140
make it. Maybe that was in your twenties. I'm just saying,
446
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.240
but we instantly run into a lower state. This is
447
00:26:06.299 --> 00:26:09.200
called shock. So, you know, if you fall into a
448
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.210
body of cold water, your core shuts down and it
449
00:26:12.269 --> 00:26:14.970
just keeps you warm inside. So you're in your keep
450
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for a while. So our assemblage point basically collapses. We
451
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.940
become a smaller universe because we're just trying to save something,
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whatever it is we can save. So ultimately all the
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00:26:25.460 --> 00:26:28.720
trauma that we have is going to obliterate our outer
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walls and cause us either to retreat, which is very necessary.
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Sometimes this isn't, doesn't mean you're not living right, but
456
00:26:35.049 --> 00:26:38.289
also sometimes to expand and how much you expand or
457
00:26:38.329 --> 00:26:41.259
retreat is more of a strategy than And that strategy
458
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can get you in a lot of trouble. And we're
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living in society that's learned how, in my opinion, we're
460
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.039
living in society that's learned how to constantly divest itself,
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to constantly be removing the expansion, that we feel safer
462
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if all of us are living in a state of questioning.
463
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A lot of us feel better off. I think it's
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because we kind of get on the pit. We're on
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our stomachs now. We're crawling around in our bellies because
466
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we don't know the truth. And we're just more protected.
467
00:27:09.180 --> 00:27:12.460
our most vital organs are facing the ground. So even
468
00:27:12.539 --> 00:27:18.220
our slouched posture, I think is a strategic form of self-defense.
469
00:27:19.059 --> 00:27:20.799
So I think a lot of us are crouching and
470
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.000
it's kind of embarrassing. I wish that we'd stand up taller,
471
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but I also really respect and understand that this is
472
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just nature doing what it can with the amount of
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calories it has. And we're just watching a new kind
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of creature. I really do see that a new kind
475
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:35.309
of creature come online in a world that has a
476
00:27:35.349 --> 00:27:38.910
different sun and A different level of sunspots, which means
477
00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:42.009
there's more clarity to the light. There's less sunspots. So
478
00:27:42.029 --> 00:27:44.710
there's like a clearer signal. That clear signal is burning
479
00:27:44.750 --> 00:27:47.200
a lot of our ears. Many of us are looking
480
00:27:47.240 --> 00:27:50.319
for mass exodus. We have the Spanish flu. We have
481
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:52.119
World War II. We have World War I. We have
482
00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:55.039
all these opportunities that are given for people to mass
483
00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:58.619
exit from the greenhouse because it's just too much information.
484
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:01.990
But overall, it seems to me what's happening is there's
485
00:28:02.009 --> 00:28:06.170
a lens of consciousness that's That is growing wider as
486
00:28:06.269 --> 00:28:09.529
we grow. And that this is causing what feels like
487
00:28:09.569 --> 00:28:11.880
a lot of pain, what feels like a lot of slavery,
488
00:28:11.950 --> 00:28:14.180
what feels like a lot of enslavement. And it would
489
00:28:14.220 --> 00:28:17.700
be how any plant would feel inside of a greenhouse
490
00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:20.940
where the greenhouse is insisting that you can be taller
491
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.319
and insisting that you could Leo more crystals, man, there's
492
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:24.880
more buds.
493
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:25.490
You've got it.
494
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.380
And you were the plant and you're just like, dude, I,
495
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.279
why are you making this happen to me?
496
00:28:29.880 --> 00:28:30.779
It feels that way.
497
00:28:31.640 --> 00:28:33.809
It feels that way because that's how the jungle feels.
498
00:28:34.309 --> 00:28:37.150
This is how every single plant in the jungle would feel,
499
00:28:37.630 --> 00:28:40.470
especially if they did not have the emotional posture to
500
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:43.140
understand what's happening to them. Because in my mind, you
501
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:45.940
can level up. You can have a different relationship with
502
00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:49.420
yourself and all what I call vitriol that the world's
503
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.880
giving you is actually a belief in you. It's actually
504
00:28:52.940 --> 00:28:56.519
believing in your timber. It's giving you more stress because
505
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.420
it knows you'll grow farther from that than you would
506
00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:01.500
if you didn't have it. So it's sort of like
507
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:06.289
we're kind of, spoiled teens that are mad that our
508
00:29:06.369 --> 00:29:09.690
parents are trying to discipline us sometimes that that's really
509
00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:12.109
more of a closer look at i think how we're
510
00:29:12.170 --> 00:29:14.789
seeing this place we've lost really the wonder of it
511
00:29:14.829 --> 00:29:19.289
this is an amazing amazing perfect realm i don't mean
512
00:29:19.369 --> 00:29:23.130
perfect in a candy cane way i literally mean that
513
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:25.779
every single thing has been accounted for here like every
514
00:29:25.819 --> 00:29:28.140
single thing and so in my mind it's hard for
515
00:29:28.180 --> 00:29:31.740
me to call this world broken because so much profanity
516
00:29:31.779 --> 00:29:36.039
has been done to make sure that it's vitriol based,
517
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.920
that you're always growing, that even when things are the shittiest,
518
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.920
that there's still conscious growth happening all around you. We
519
00:29:41.980 --> 00:29:44.980
see this because we're no longer bicameral. We see this
520
00:29:45.029 --> 00:29:47.789
because we have society. We see this because people mow
521
00:29:47.809 --> 00:29:52.109
their lawns. The amount of self... thought that it would
522
00:29:52.170 --> 00:29:54.609
take to go out and chop every single piece of
523
00:29:54.670 --> 00:29:58.029
grass to a certain height. I hear you that it's insanity,
524
00:29:58.109 --> 00:30:01.119
but it's also a sign of having a more saturated
525
00:30:01.170 --> 00:30:04.720
consciousness that doesn't just exist inside the body, but exists
526
00:30:04.740 --> 00:30:09.559
inside the yard, their house, their kids, their business. So
527
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:11.420
it's sort of like a lichen that would spread on
528
00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:14.119
a rock. And this to me is a healthy lichen.
529
00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:16.740
So all these things that we see, the ego that
530
00:30:16.779 --> 00:30:19.910
we grow, all these things are healthy, healthy things. They're
531
00:30:19.930 --> 00:30:22.250
just kind of intense is all because it's the jungle.
532
00:30:22.609 --> 00:30:22.950
Right on.
533
00:30:23.730 --> 00:30:26.470
This might get into the black eye club a bit,
534
00:30:27.150 --> 00:30:31.380
but people look at the power structure, especially a lot
535
00:30:31.410 --> 00:30:35.299
of people just waking up, questioning reality, and they get
536
00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:40.799
into the occult ritualistic aspects of some of the parasitic
537
00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:46.049
ruling class and what they're into, and it brings a
538
00:30:46.210 --> 00:30:49.809
sense of helplessness. Oh, these guys are communing with demons.
539
00:30:50.109 --> 00:30:52.470
They're trying to bring about the end of the world.
540
00:30:53.009 --> 00:30:57.079
All of these powerful prophetic concepts that have been really
541
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:02.019
resurfacing now. But I don't think they have that power.
542
00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:05.019
Many believe that they're going to either bring about the
543
00:31:05.059 --> 00:31:09.380
end of the world or some sort of technological disaster
544
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:13.980
that's going to bring about terminator or AI destruction, all
545
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:18.539
these imminent dangerous things that people in the quote unquote
546
00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:25.079
conspiracy community often discuss. What would you tell them about
547
00:31:25.119 --> 00:31:28.480
the true nature of these people in charge of things?
548
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:33.039
So I've learned the hard way that I have to
549
00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:36.049
just let them feel that way because it's helpful. They
550
00:31:36.089 --> 00:31:39.089
find it constructive to feel that way. And I think
551
00:31:39.130 --> 00:31:40.710
it's really akin to a scarecrow.
552
00:31:40.730 --> 00:31:41.450
To be honest with you.
553
00:31:41.470 --> 00:31:45.250
And I don't know if everyone even understands the technology
554
00:31:45.269 --> 00:31:49.589
of a scarecrow, because a scarecrow is obviously something that's
555
00:31:49.630 --> 00:31:52.890
fake that's meant to scare crows away. But I think
556
00:31:52.930 --> 00:31:56.250
it's more of an analogy of what we do. If
557
00:31:56.329 --> 00:31:59.250
you and I are afraid of cancer, which is kind
558
00:31:59.269 --> 00:32:02.500
of scary. But you and I could instead be afraid
559
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:06.119
of Jason chasing people in the woods with a knife.
560
00:32:06.500 --> 00:32:09.049
And a lot of those people are females that have
561
00:32:09.410 --> 00:32:12.109
heaving breasts and they trip over roots and they're wearing
562
00:32:12.150 --> 00:32:15.930
Daisy Duke's pants. You and I have just created a scarecrow.
563
00:32:16.390 --> 00:32:19.420
We've created something to be terrified of that is limbically
564
00:32:19.460 --> 00:32:22.490
more pleasing and that is not exactly the same threat,
565
00:32:22.789 --> 00:32:26.170
that has nowhere near the same percentage of happening to us,
566
00:32:26.250 --> 00:32:29.289
that doesn't have any of the same kind of things
567
00:32:29.329 --> 00:32:34.559
that threaten us, but still intrinsically looks scarier than the
568
00:32:34.599 --> 00:32:38.240
thing that we're really not comfortable with. In this case,
569
00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:41.619
let's say it's cancer. So we don't want to look
570
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:44.539
at cancer. So we take Jason and we put him
571
00:32:44.579 --> 00:32:46.420
in a mask, Freddy Krueger, and we put him in
572
00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:49.119
front of the cancer, and now we don't see it.
573
00:32:50.019 --> 00:32:52.019
We don't see it because our consciousness is able to
574
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:54.960
focus on this scarecrow we've created. Now, in my mind,
575
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.119
this is not a flaw. In my mind, this shows
576
00:32:58.140 --> 00:33:01.980
you how fucking brilliant our consciousness is, that it's able to,
577
00:33:02.460 --> 00:33:05.099
believe it or not, it's able to utilize neuromelanin to
578
00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:09.400
literally black out the signal of things. If it's too uncomfortable,
579
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:15.130
your amygdala listens. It senses how... How parasympathetic or how
580
00:33:15.410 --> 00:33:17.910
sympathetic you go, excuse me, where you enter into shock,
581
00:33:17.950 --> 00:33:21.279
you're not digesting, your saliva shuts down, you're ready for
582
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.099
fight flight. And that when it does that, it instantly
583
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:26.200
starts to cut off the amount of dopamine that goes
584
00:33:26.220 --> 00:33:29.180
to your eyes. When your eyes have less dopamine, they
585
00:33:29.220 --> 00:33:33.059
stop rendering such a vivid picture. When you stop rendering
586
00:33:33.140 --> 00:33:35.740
such a vivid picture, you are not fully immersed in
587
00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:38.849
the world, which gives you more calories to fucking run.
588
00:33:39.750 --> 00:33:43.259
You're not as afraid of the world anymore. So there's
589
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.039
a big clutch that's happening. There's a clutch inside your
590
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:49.099
consciousness that we as scientists, I'm not a scientist, but
591
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.099
I'm saying that the scientists don't necessarily even admit to yet.
592
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:54.920
I can show you all the signs that it's there,
593
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:57.160
but we do not talk about it in just the
594
00:33:57.180 --> 00:33:59.859
standard vernacular as all. I'm not trying to suggest I've
595
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:01.599
invented something that no one else has seen. I just
596
00:34:01.619 --> 00:34:03.799
think that I just have the language tools to talk
597
00:34:03.839 --> 00:34:05.960
about something that we just haven't been talking about as all.
598
00:34:06.009 --> 00:34:07.789
There's sort of an aperture of consciousness.
599
00:34:08.610 --> 00:34:11.409
This aperture is going to allow you to see things
600
00:34:11.469 --> 00:34:14.090
that are quite frankly are too terrifying for other people
601
00:34:14.150 --> 00:34:17.550
to see. This is where I talk about the people
602
00:34:17.590 --> 00:34:21.389
that are in charge now. The people that are in
603
00:34:21.449 --> 00:34:24.590
charge have a capacity to see things that are more
604
00:34:24.670 --> 00:34:27.389
terrifying than you and I can. You and I are
605
00:34:27.510 --> 00:34:32.809
sane fucking people. We are not psychopathic. We love puppies
606
00:34:32.889 --> 00:34:36.710
and kittens and gingerbread. And because we love those things,
607
00:34:36.769 --> 00:34:40.289
we live in a bandwidth that does not allow us
608
00:34:41.050 --> 00:34:45.840
to be that psychopathic. We actually find it painful. We
609
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:48.760
would not be able to survive limbically, meaning we would
610
00:34:48.800 --> 00:34:53.349
not find enough oxygen inside of a psychopathic lifestyle. There
611
00:34:53.369 --> 00:34:58.550
are others that would. Deepwater fish. Just deepwater. And that
612
00:34:58.570 --> 00:35:02.630
those people, they're more shark-oriented. They have a more psychopathic
613
00:35:02.670 --> 00:35:05.710
consciousness and that this keeps them away from things like
614
00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:07.150
teddy bears and gingerbread.
615
00:35:07.170 --> 00:35:08.329
But it also allows them.
616
00:35:08.230 --> 00:35:14.579
To see giant squid, megalodon, giant fucking apex eagles, predators
617
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.880
that are too terrifying for you and I to process.
618
00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:17.599
They can see.
619
00:35:18.219 --> 00:35:20.389
So they see a reality that we don't and we
620
00:35:20.449 --> 00:35:22.969
see a reality that they don't. So if you want
621
00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:25.010
to ask who's in charge, I think it's you. I
622
00:35:25.389 --> 00:35:27.559
think you're the one in charge. However, if we need
623
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:29.699
a world and we need to see this structure, then
624
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:31.900
we're going to say that the person in charge is
625
00:35:31.940 --> 00:35:35.420
the one that can see the biggest predator. In my mind,
626
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.820
that would be what we think of as the black nobility,
627
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:41.010
psychopathic elite that are running the whole show.
628
00:35:41.030 --> 00:35:43.230
And I think this is true.
629
00:35:43.449 --> 00:35:48.190
People that are able to see a deeper, more psychopathic
630
00:35:48.230 --> 00:35:51.289
reality are going to have a simulation advantage over you.
631
00:35:52.019 --> 00:35:57.000
Because they're able to see things like that. So I
632
00:35:57.059 --> 00:36:00.769
think it's a conscious bandwidth. I think that as you
633
00:36:00.829 --> 00:36:05.409
approach the psychopathic, you also lose the teddy bear gingerbread stuff.
634
00:36:05.730 --> 00:36:09.070
And you simply lose touch with reality. There's a certain
635
00:36:09.150 --> 00:36:12.760
bit of reality you do not connect to anymore. Psychopaths
636
00:36:12.780 --> 00:36:16.019
talk about this. It's a kind of depression that they have.
637
00:36:16.530 --> 00:36:18.409
Where they do not feel that they fit in. In fact,
638
00:36:18.429 --> 00:36:20.929
they get so angry when they see someone else finding
639
00:36:21.030 --> 00:36:24.280
so much texture in something as simple as a milkshake
640
00:36:24.340 --> 00:36:27.360
or something like that. It's like, how fucking dare you pretend?
641
00:36:27.579 --> 00:36:32.099
They accuse them of pretending. If you watch the profiles,
642
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:35.300
they'll accuse you of pretending to like something when there's
643
00:36:35.340 --> 00:36:39.570
no fucking way you could. This is the mentality. I
644
00:36:39.650 --> 00:36:42.550
personally do not think that this would make you in charge.
645
00:36:42.929 --> 00:36:45.809
I think it would make you a better predator, hands down.
646
00:36:46.760 --> 00:36:49.960
zero debate about that. But I think it turns you
647
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:52.659
into an addict and you're living in a world that
648
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:56.530
you're asphyxiating from. In my mind, it's more of a jungle.
649
00:36:57.570 --> 00:37:00.170
In my mind, there is no creature that is running
650
00:37:00.230 --> 00:37:04.050
the Amazon, the rainforest, that gets to say, I will
651
00:37:04.469 --> 00:37:06.590
eat all of you. I mean, time, we could say that.
652
00:37:07.449 --> 00:37:10.760
But really what I look at is it's a balanced ecosystem.
653
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:13.989
There's some of the coolest, most amazing stuff in the jungle,
654
00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:16.250
and there's some of the evilest, most fucked up shit
655
00:37:16.269 --> 00:37:19.309
in the jungle. And so in my mind, in order
656
00:37:19.349 --> 00:37:21.469
for the capacity to exist, for us to have a
657
00:37:21.489 --> 00:37:24.070
bandwidth that we live in, we would need to have
658
00:37:24.610 --> 00:37:30.989
the darkest, most psychopathic people and, sorry, and the most beyonder,
659
00:37:31.369 --> 00:37:32.730
higher capacity people.
660
00:37:33.170 --> 00:37:34.289
We would have to have both.
661
00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:36.610
And you and I, Chris, do not live in a
662
00:37:36.670 --> 00:37:39.469
truth movement where we ever get to talk about the beyonders.
663
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:43.940
We only talk about the psychopaths. We only discuss this level.
664
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.480
And every time I try and discuss this level, people
665
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:49.510
get mad and they say, how dare you live in
666
00:37:49.550 --> 00:37:51.550
this world where there's no such thing as this? And
667
00:37:51.590 --> 00:37:53.409
I didn't say there's no such thing as this. I'm
668
00:37:53.449 --> 00:37:58.170
saying this proves that there must be these two. And
669
00:37:58.190 --> 00:38:00.849
that these two means that why are we wasting all
670
00:38:00.869 --> 00:38:03.730
of our time focusing on the psychopathic elite when we
671
00:38:03.750 --> 00:38:06.929
could focus on the beyonder elite? The people that are
672
00:38:06.949 --> 00:38:09.730
born without social security numbers, the people that are born
673
00:38:09.769 --> 00:38:13.199
without birth certificates, the people that would never, ever, ever
674
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:17.960
defame their child by giving it the brand of a
675
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:22.079
UPC code. That there would be people just like this
676
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:24.420
and they would not exist in society. They would look
677
00:38:24.460 --> 00:38:26.510
at you and I and say, you guys are fucking insane.
678
00:38:26.780 --> 00:38:28.889
They would look at us the same way psychopaths look
679
00:38:28.929 --> 00:38:31.530
at us, but they wouldn't have a disdain for us.
680
00:38:31.610 --> 00:38:34.110
I think they would see us more as potential. These
681
00:38:34.130 --> 00:38:36.789
guys got potential. They could learn to see more. If
682
00:38:36.829 --> 00:38:38.809
they could grow up, if they could straighten their spines
683
00:38:38.869 --> 00:38:41.650
out more, they might be able to get here. I
684
00:38:41.670 --> 00:38:45.429
call these beyonders. I think a lot of us are beyonders.
685
00:38:46.710 --> 00:38:48.590
Like a lot of us. I think Corona made more
686
00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:51.260
beyonders than anything else I've seen. I think nine 11
687
00:38:51.260 --> 00:38:54.739
was a close second, which is, and that this beyond
688
00:38:54.780 --> 00:38:57.920
ring is, is a necessary part of evolution. It's the
689
00:38:57.960 --> 00:39:02.050
squeezing out and making a higher version of man, basically
690
00:39:02.070 --> 00:39:07.460
more autonomous, more sovereign, more, uh, self-centered in a good way,
691
00:39:07.820 --> 00:39:09.699
more universally centered in that way.
692
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.900
What you said earlier really resonated with me about how
693
00:39:14.739 --> 00:39:19.010
psychopaths are going to naturally gravitate to these positions of
694
00:39:19.070 --> 00:39:22.170
power and people like you and I, we don't really
695
00:39:22.230 --> 00:39:25.429
care about any of that. We're happy with, like you said,
696
00:39:25.489 --> 00:39:29.409
puppies and gingerbread and we're cool with that, but they
697
00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:34.550
have the groups of people that tend to gravitate to
698
00:39:34.590 --> 00:39:38.630
these positions of power, politics, CEOs, things of that nature.
699
00:39:39.429 --> 00:39:42.780
And those are the ones that have the advantage in
700
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.679
the quote unquote matrix. Get more out of what this,
701
00:39:46.820 --> 00:39:52.480
their life game is. But they have this psychopathic nature
702
00:39:52.539 --> 00:39:55.800
to them. So that really resonated with me. But I'd
703
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:59.340
like to tie this to the black eye club and
704
00:39:59.820 --> 00:40:03.909
what we were seeing with the very powerful people and
705
00:40:04.030 --> 00:40:05.320
the black eyes.
706
00:40:09.010 --> 00:40:12.389
Well, I feel like I always let people down when
707
00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:15.570
I tell them this. I was fascinated by the black eye.
708
00:40:15.889 --> 00:40:18.360
Why are all these people have a black eye?
709
00:40:19.329 --> 00:40:19.809
I still am.
710
00:40:21.230 --> 00:40:23.809
And I compassionated as hard as I could. And the
711
00:40:23.829 --> 00:40:26.090
first thing I realized is that I cannot picture the
712
00:40:26.130 --> 00:40:28.710
Pope going into an underground ceremony and having someone punch
713
00:40:28.730 --> 00:40:31.170
him in the face. I just don't think he'd have
714
00:40:31.190 --> 00:40:32.989
the balls to do that. I think he's too weak.
715
00:40:33.010 --> 00:40:35.590
I think he's too fucking weak to pull that shit off.
716
00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:36.380
I think he'd flinch.
717
00:40:37.389 --> 00:40:40.780
I think most of our reflexes would stop us from
718
00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:43.119
doing that. And so then I thought, well, what else
719
00:40:43.179 --> 00:40:46.809
is it? And I just started playing with that. And
720
00:40:46.829 --> 00:40:48.590
it led me into the Eye of Ra, which is
721
00:40:48.650 --> 00:40:52.289
the study about what reality really is. Basically, my theory
722
00:40:52.329 --> 00:40:55.909
is this. It probably is some sort of.
723
00:40:58.090 --> 00:41:00.449
Injection. It's not a punch.
724
00:41:00.780 --> 00:41:03.500
It's some sort of injection in the eye. And the
725
00:41:03.539 --> 00:41:06.000
injection in the eye, what would it give you as
726
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.519
a world leader? What would you as a psychopath want
727
00:41:09.039 --> 00:41:12.179
that no one else would want? And what would you
728
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.139
want to publicly initiate yourself and show everyone else that
729
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:18.269
you have it too? And honestly, I just started studying
730
00:41:18.309 --> 00:41:20.449
how the eye works because I'm bored sometimes.
731
00:41:20.510 --> 00:41:22.849
I'm just like, well, what would you do the eye?
732
00:41:23.190 --> 00:41:26.969
And I found that the eye, all of your dopamine,
733
00:41:27.329 --> 00:41:29.889
most of the dopamine that your body makes, which is really,
734
00:41:30.190 --> 00:41:32.130
it's not really a happy chemical. It's more of like
735
00:41:32.150 --> 00:41:35.639
a currency. So everything that your body wants to do
736
00:41:35.699 --> 00:41:38.159
to process information, it needs dopamine.
737
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.119
To do that.
738
00:41:38.980 --> 00:41:41.639
So it's like a chit. It's like a credit or
739
00:41:41.659 --> 00:41:45.130
a casino token. And if you don't have any tokens,
740
00:41:45.170 --> 00:41:48.010
you can't gamble. So the reality is just your eye
741
00:41:48.070 --> 00:41:50.150
gambling all the time. It takes as much money as
742
00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.429
it can. It tries to paint a picture that it
743
00:41:52.530 --> 00:41:55.730
thinks will help you. And then you either survive or
744
00:41:55.769 --> 00:41:57.530
you don't. And then it does it again. It does
745
00:41:57.570 --> 00:41:58.679
it again. Does it again.
746
00:41:58.820 --> 00:42:01.599
Roughly 60 frames a second. Roughly. It's about as much
747
00:42:01.659 --> 00:42:03.420
as we can handle. Some of us.
748
00:42:03.760 --> 00:42:06.599
Some of us are maybe 120. The most your chemistry
749
00:42:06.619 --> 00:42:08.739
can handle is about 200. So you and I are
750
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:12.030
only seeing maybe one fifth of the resolution of what
751
00:42:12.070 --> 00:42:15.550
we even could even render in the world. So what
752
00:42:15.570 --> 00:42:18.230
could you stick in the eye? Now, your eye, not
753
00:42:18.269 --> 00:42:21.329
only does it have dopamine, it's surrounded by an epithelial
754
00:42:21.349 --> 00:42:25.730
wall that secretes melanocytes. Sorry, it has melanocytes that secrete melanin.
755
00:42:26.130 --> 00:42:30.260
Melanin is a very interesting chemical. It absorbs heat, it
756
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:33.739
absorbs electricity, it absorbs information, and it stays cool.
757
00:42:34.650 --> 00:42:35.650
It absorbs it forever.
758
00:42:35.750 --> 00:42:39.989
We can find melanin ink inside of some squids that
759
00:42:40.050 --> 00:42:43.289
are like 200,000 years old. And the ink is still liquid.
760
00:42:43.329 --> 00:42:46.070
It's like still in good shape. Melanin is probably one
761
00:42:46.110 --> 00:42:48.630
of the oldest chemicals that we've been able to find
762
00:42:48.809 --> 00:42:52.469
in deep space. Like seriously, it's a pretty interesting thing.
763
00:42:53.269 --> 00:42:58.050
Some people in the astrophysics community believe that dark matter
764
00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:02.750
and melanin are somehow related. There's something about this superconductor.
765
00:43:02.829 --> 00:43:06.889
It's used for electrical conduits, for circuitry, but in our case,
766
00:43:07.250 --> 00:43:11.690
for our discussion right now, it absorbs source information. Your
767
00:43:11.789 --> 00:43:15.010
eyes have melanocytes all in them, but more importantly, so
768
00:43:15.070 --> 00:43:19.139
do your ears. The inner ear, the cochlea, the parts
769
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:22.900
that do not see the outside sun, have melanocytes inside them,
770
00:43:23.239 --> 00:43:26.110
and they secrete melanin. You and I have been told
771
00:43:26.150 --> 00:43:28.389
that melanin is here to pigment because of skin and
772
00:43:28.409 --> 00:43:30.530
because of the sun and, you know, and it makes
773
00:43:30.570 --> 00:43:31.170
you racist.
774
00:43:31.230 --> 00:43:31.750
That's why.
775
00:43:31.769 --> 00:43:34.250
And none of us have decided that melanin could be
776
00:43:34.289 --> 00:43:36.570
anything else. And I'm here to say that I really
777
00:43:36.610 --> 00:43:40.679
think that the hippocampus, the amygdala, utilize melanin as a
778
00:43:40.760 --> 00:43:44.639
clutch to stop seeing the world so clearly. That they
779
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.039
have to stop seeing it because it's too intense. It
780
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:50.400
gets too upsetting for them and that they have to
781
00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:53.280
hide it from themselves. And that we hide ourselves from
782
00:43:53.340 --> 00:43:56.260
the world, believe it or not, by hiding the olfactory world,
783
00:43:56.340 --> 00:43:59.420
the smells, what we used to call aura.
784
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:00.389
Some of us still do.
785
00:44:00.469 --> 00:44:03.070
But the idea of seeing someone's aura, in my opinion,
786
00:44:03.110 --> 00:44:05.949
is just seeing the smell cloud around them. And that
787
00:44:05.969 --> 00:44:09.269
we purposely either ran out of calories or chose to
788
00:44:09.329 --> 00:44:11.769
run out of calories. I can argue that later if
789
00:44:11.849 --> 00:44:14.489
we come to it. But that we've chosen to purposely
790
00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:18.800
hide most of the information from ourselves by burning the
791
00:44:18.860 --> 00:44:21.099
olfactory receptors the moment we're born.
792
00:44:21.659 --> 00:44:22.360
You can look this up.
793
00:44:23.380 --> 00:44:28.139
Children in the womb have much more resilient olfactory. As
794
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:30.880
soon as you're born, it instantly starts to atrophy and
795
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.539
it eventually goes away. So we're purposely squeezing and amputating
796
00:44:34.619 --> 00:44:37.559
one of the most vital signals that does not need
797
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:39.380
to come into our frontal lobe, by the way. The
798
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:42.510
olfactory goes straight into your sensory system, which means that
799
00:44:43.050 --> 00:44:45.949
you wouldn't be able to argue with smell. And we can't.
800
00:44:46.010 --> 00:44:49.260
This is why smelling salts work. This is why everyone
801
00:44:49.619 --> 00:44:53.300
universally finds the same noxious substance as noxious. There's no
802
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.400
mental way of hacking that. So a long time ago,
803
00:44:57.559 --> 00:45:00.579
we cut off the olfactory so we could create society.
804
00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:02.400
You're not going to be able to be in the
805
00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:04.400
same room with someone if you know for a fact
806
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:07.079
that they're a psychopath or they just raped someone. But
807
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:09.000
if you did go into a room and you could
808
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:11.469
do that and cover your nose... You might be able
809
00:45:11.489 --> 00:45:14.110
to have dinner next to someone who did that and
810
00:45:14.170 --> 00:45:16.269
you still be able to digest food. So there's, it's
811
00:45:16.309 --> 00:45:18.650
an advantage to knowing less is what I'm trying to say.
812
00:45:18.730 --> 00:45:23.570
Society needs us to know less. The psychopaths don't know less.
813
00:45:25.070 --> 00:45:28.380
They're able to take a shot that is, this is theoretical,
814
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.900
but they're able to take a shot that installs albinism
815
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:37.159
inside their eyes. And the albinism is able to create
816
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:41.239
their melanocytes to stop working. When you do this to
817
00:45:41.280 --> 00:45:45.730
an albino, they go fucking crazy. They have strobilism, this
818
00:45:46.449 --> 00:45:50.230
tensor strength with their eyes are constantly moving back and forth.
819
00:45:50.250 --> 00:45:53.230
They're not able to see as well. Most of the
820
00:45:53.269 --> 00:45:57.429
shamans in Africa were albinos. They're known to see things
821
00:45:57.469 --> 00:46:00.190
that others could not. And so my theory about the
822
00:46:00.210 --> 00:46:04.690
black eye club is this. It's so much about the
823
00:46:04.730 --> 00:46:07.150
science is that I think that what's happening is that
824
00:46:07.210 --> 00:46:09.659
maybe there's a shot that could be given to the eye.
825
00:46:10.349 --> 00:46:10.889
That would.
826
00:46:12.269 --> 00:46:15.250
Give it a temporary kind of albinism that would wear
827
00:46:15.389 --> 00:46:19.090
off after a while, basically numbing the melanocytes to where
828
00:46:19.130 --> 00:46:21.900
they think they're working, but they're not. And you would
829
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:26.000
start to perceive a reality. I need to define perceive here,
830
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:29.480
but you would start to see a reality that would
831
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:32.559
otherwise be too hard for you to interpret. When I
832
00:46:32.619 --> 00:46:35.380
say see, though, I really need people to understand what
833
00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:36.099
vision is.
834
00:46:36.579 --> 00:46:38.659
The eye is a wound. It's not a window.
835
00:46:39.369 --> 00:46:43.929
It's bleeding information, but only because it hurts. So you're
836
00:46:43.989 --> 00:46:46.230
only going to be able to see as much reality
837
00:46:46.269 --> 00:46:49.699
as you can stomach, and it's hallucinated. I can prove
838
00:46:49.739 --> 00:46:52.639
this with blue. There are no blue receptors inside your fovea,
839
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.079
yet we see a really rich, rich blue, more than
840
00:46:55.099 --> 00:46:58.900
we should see. We hallucinate most of these things, and
841
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.110
the hallucination is built in our amygdala by how comfortable
842
00:47:02.170 --> 00:47:04.730
it is with the truth we're seeing. So I'm talking
843
00:47:04.769 --> 00:47:10.630
about ghosts, poltergeists, auras, chemtrails, just the vibe, right? Just
844
00:47:10.750 --> 00:47:13.710
anyone's vibe at all. You would have more calories to
845
00:47:13.829 --> 00:47:17.420
render because you don't have this melanocyte clutch. You're a
846
00:47:17.460 --> 00:47:20.500
middle of saying, I don't like this reality. I just
847
00:47:20.539 --> 00:47:22.380
want to go to McDonald's and get fries, but that
848
00:47:22.420 --> 00:47:24.400
guy just diddled his kid. And I don't want to, it's,
849
00:47:24.500 --> 00:47:27.079
it's that kind of thing. You have to shut it
850
00:47:27.239 --> 00:47:28.280
off with the psychopath.
851
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.469
Maybe you would say, I need to see more. I
852
00:47:30.489 --> 00:47:31.989
need to see more, not less.
853
00:47:32.630 --> 00:47:34.769
And so this was my theory about the black high club.
854
00:47:34.809 --> 00:47:37.039
And now it's led to this book, which is, Actually
855
00:47:37.059 --> 00:47:38.659
having a lot to do with clones, believe it or not,
856
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:41.239
because I think that cloning is an interesting part of
857
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:47.670
how we understand our aperture, how much we limit source
858
00:47:47.710 --> 00:47:49.949
reality based on the amount of trauma we've had in
859
00:47:49.989 --> 00:47:53.670
the past. So a psychopath is made through generations where
860
00:47:53.710 --> 00:47:57.320
their aperture is stretched. Their drum of consciousness is stretched
861
00:47:57.400 --> 00:48:00.940
more through trauma. And so they're able to normalize that more.
862
00:48:01.369 --> 00:48:04.010
So they're born into a life with a wider lens
863
00:48:04.210 --> 00:48:06.949
to see things. And so it gives them the advantage.
864
00:48:07.010 --> 00:48:09.679
So technically they have the advantage, but only because they
865
00:48:09.780 --> 00:48:12.780
suffered so much fucked up trauma in the past, which
866
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:14.820
is why I say before, and I know a lot
867
00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:17.039
of people don't like this. I don't know if the
868
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:20.760
elite psychopath is really the ultra predator that we think.
869
00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:21.440
I think this is.
870
00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:24.619
It's a dangerous animal, but I think that they more
871
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:27.250
of like an addict. They're not, I don't think they're
872
00:48:27.269 --> 00:48:29.469
going to survive long. And frankly, when you look at
873
00:48:29.510 --> 00:48:32.409
the Rockefellers and all the other families, these families fizzle
874
00:48:32.590 --> 00:48:35.869
out because they become too psychopathic. You're looking for a
875
00:48:35.929 --> 00:48:39.159
gardener that has a little bit more detachment. He's not so,
876
00:48:39.420 --> 00:48:41.679
I will be evil. He's more of just like, this
877
00:48:41.699 --> 00:48:44.079
is my garden and we got some begonias and then
878
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:46.719
we got some black-eyed Susies and these are poisonous and
879
00:48:46.739 --> 00:48:48.420
these aren't. You know, he'd look at it like that.
880
00:48:48.460 --> 00:48:50.719
There's no, there's no danger from the garden.
881
00:48:50.739 --> 00:48:50.820
Yeah.
882
00:48:51.300 --> 00:48:53.880
He's a fucking gardener. Nothing's there to kill him. So
883
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:55.940
he doesn't have that same threat, you know, the fantasy
884
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:57.320
we have about the psychopath.
885
00:48:57.409 --> 00:49:00.469
They're not scared of us. We're literally helpless.
886
00:49:00.730 --> 00:49:04.030
We're literally harmless from their level. So it's a different
887
00:49:04.050 --> 00:49:04.769
kind of architecture.
888
00:49:05.010 --> 00:49:07.809
Also, if you look at it from the angle that
889
00:49:07.829 --> 00:49:11.550
we were discussing earlier, how the psychopath rises to these
890
00:49:11.610 --> 00:49:16.070
positions of power and excels in the matrix, you couple
891
00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:21.159
that with the probability that they are using money multi-generational
892
00:49:21.219 --> 00:49:25.880
trauma and abuse and mind control to perpetuate the psychopathy
893
00:49:25.960 --> 00:49:28.880
to future generations so that it can keep on going.
894
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:31.340
Yeah, yeah.
895
00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:35.869
This is part of the haunting, the demonology, the necromancy
896
00:49:35.889 --> 00:49:39.250
I talk about because ultimately your family line is a haunting.
897
00:49:41.019 --> 00:49:44.360
Your great grandparents said, we stand for this. We're into
898
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:46.119
grapes or here's our family crest.
899
00:49:46.460 --> 00:49:47.699
What have we got? A unicorn, a bear.
900
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:48.000
Okay.
901
00:49:48.019 --> 00:49:48.599
That's what we are.
902
00:49:49.099 --> 00:49:52.460
And that these are hauntings, archetypal hauntings, right? That have happened.
903
00:49:52.980 --> 00:49:54.880
And when you think about an elite family, let's say
904
00:49:54.900 --> 00:49:57.840
like Jared Kushner, I don't think that guy's having a
905
00:49:57.860 --> 00:50:00.380
good time. I think people probably hate hearing that. I
906
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.639
don't think that guy's having a good time. He's literally
907
00:50:02.699 --> 00:50:04.559
married to Ivanka Trump. She probably fucking.
908
00:50:04.340 --> 00:50:04.860
Hates his guts.
909
00:50:05.550 --> 00:50:08.110
He's probably feels like a raccoon that's broken into a
910
00:50:08.170 --> 00:50:10.849
giant mansion. And he's trying to make himself at home
911
00:50:10.949 --> 00:50:13.989
inside this tiny little master bedroom. And it's freezing cold.
912
00:50:14.059 --> 00:50:16.400
Like there's, there's, it's not a home is what I'm
913
00:50:16.420 --> 00:50:19.099
trying to say. It's a state that you reach when,
914
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.440
when the addict is just simply just freaking out and
915
00:50:22.460 --> 00:50:24.980
they're trying to do too much. So in my mind,
916
00:50:25.019 --> 00:50:27.340
the people that are leading, we just don't see, why
917
00:50:27.380 --> 00:50:29.119
do we not see? Because that's how good they are.
918
00:50:29.940 --> 00:50:31.340
They're so not, not good in.
919
00:50:31.300 --> 00:50:31.860
Like, don't worry.
920
00:50:31.900 --> 00:50:33.940
I'm not saying they're morally good, but like, that's how
921
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.219
good they are at being who they are that we
922
00:50:36.260 --> 00:50:41.829
would never see them. Joe Biden has his moments, his day,
923
00:50:41.929 --> 00:50:45.710
Donald Trump, from 5 a.m. until 10 at night, every
924
00:50:45.730 --> 00:50:48.369
single fucking minute is planned. He has to be here.
925
00:50:48.690 --> 00:50:50.590
He has to be here. He has to be here.
926
00:50:50.650 --> 00:50:53.250
Then he has to be here. This is not a
927
00:50:53.329 --> 00:50:55.809
sign of an autonomous, beyonder being.
928
00:50:55.530 --> 00:50:56.380
That has power.
929
00:50:57.139 --> 00:50:59.400
This is the sign of someone that literally is having
930
00:50:59.500 --> 00:51:02.199
every single moment of their life dictated, like Taylor Swift.
931
00:51:03.139 --> 00:51:05.800
It's easy to think that Taylor Swift is having a
932
00:51:05.840 --> 00:51:10.639
better life than you. But it's not necessarily true. It's
933
00:51:10.739 --> 00:51:12.110
not necessarily true.
934
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:12.739
Do you understand?
935
00:51:12.989 --> 00:51:14.750
And in order for Taylor to do what she does,
936
00:51:14.809 --> 00:51:17.150
she would have to be a doper. I use this
937
00:51:17.190 --> 00:51:20.849
term loosely. But if you think about everyone that's successful,
938
00:51:21.510 --> 00:51:25.150
Lance Armstrong is part of the corona because he showed us.
939
00:51:25.409 --> 00:51:28.769
We just didn't want to see it. He showed us that, guys,
940
00:51:28.809 --> 00:51:32.110
stop thinking that it's just me. I'm telling you that
941
00:51:32.250 --> 00:51:34.869
everyone dopes. If you want to be an elite that
942
00:51:34.929 --> 00:51:37.250
everyone else sees, you're going to have to be psychopathic.
943
00:51:37.289 --> 00:51:38.690
And if you want to do that, you're going to
944
00:51:38.710 --> 00:51:40.030
have to break laws. You're going to have to do
945
00:51:40.070 --> 00:51:42.489
things no one else would do. And if you look
946
00:51:42.550 --> 00:51:45.900
in every single field, from politics to sports to psychology
947
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:51.400
to literature to Hollywood to every single sport, literally every
948
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:53.840
single field ever, you will find at the top it's
949
00:51:53.900 --> 00:51:54.780
full of psychopaths.
950
00:51:55.380 --> 00:51:57.320
Always. There's never an exception.
951
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:58.150
Even now.
952
00:51:58.809 --> 00:52:01.690
Guys, even if we look at the periodic table of
953
00:52:01.730 --> 00:52:05.349
the elements, there's psychopaths that have made up elements that
954
00:52:05.389 --> 00:52:07.650
did not exist and collected all this fame that they
955
00:52:07.690 --> 00:52:08.429
found out later.
956
00:52:09.170 --> 00:52:10.010
Look up novium.
957
00:52:10.070 --> 00:52:12.349
It's an example of this. So it's like this is
958
00:52:12.429 --> 00:52:14.789
not a– we are in a point where we are
959
00:52:14.829 --> 00:52:18.210
not willing to admit how deep the psychopathy goes. So
960
00:52:18.230 --> 00:52:21.280
we create scarecrows like we talked about earlier. We create
961
00:52:21.699 --> 00:52:25.360
candy corn versions of psychopaths. And I'm telling you, the
962
00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:28.880
psychopaths that you worry about are not candy corn. They
963
00:52:28.940 --> 00:52:31.739
are fucking driving right next to you. And they're in
964
00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:36.250
a fucking Toyota. They're in a fucking Toyota Corolla. And
965
00:52:36.269 --> 00:52:39.349
that's how dangerous they are because they're that close. But
966
00:52:39.389 --> 00:52:41.670
we don't want to see them. We want to see
967
00:52:41.710 --> 00:52:44.409
the scarecrow because it makes us feel when you're in
968
00:52:44.449 --> 00:52:46.309
bed at night and you look out and you see
969
00:52:46.329 --> 00:52:48.289
the scarecrow, you know where all the fear is.
970
00:52:48.610 --> 00:52:49.280
You feel better.
971
00:52:49.300 --> 00:52:50.199
Right?
972
00:52:50.469 --> 00:52:52.739
This is a power. This is what I mean. This
973
00:52:52.780 --> 00:52:55.400
shows you how creative we are. This is not a flaw.
974
00:52:56.030 --> 00:52:58.329
It shows you how fucking psychically creative we are. We
975
00:52:58.349 --> 00:53:01.210
are so psychically creative that we're building a fantasy on
976
00:53:01.250 --> 00:53:03.590
top of a fantasy that we already built 300 years
977
00:53:03.650 --> 00:53:06.110
ago and forgot. So we're fantasizing on top of the
978
00:53:06.130 --> 00:53:07.699
fantasy on top of the fantasy on top of the
979
00:53:07.739 --> 00:53:10.800
fantasy is all. And ultimately, this is who we are.
980
00:53:10.860 --> 00:53:12.119
I don't want us to go away from this. I
981
00:53:12.139 --> 00:53:13.860
want us to lean more into it. I think that
982
00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.980
we should start to utilize our fantasy more because this
983
00:53:17.059 --> 00:53:21.260
isn't a realm that's built for objectivity. Objectivity is something
984
00:53:21.300 --> 00:53:24.550
we declared from the realm because we watched the hypothetical.
985
00:53:24.730 --> 00:53:28.449
We watched the voice become God. That voice looked like objectivity.
986
00:53:28.750 --> 00:53:31.210
So we insist that everyone has to be seeing the same.
987
00:53:31.750 --> 00:53:34.570
We know for a fact that's not the case. We
988
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.300
know for a fact that different people see different things.
989
00:53:37.420 --> 00:53:39.559
I have friends that see chemtrails and I believe them.
990
00:53:40.099 --> 00:53:40.820
I believe them.
991
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.219
I think that they are hallucinating their reality the exact
992
00:53:44.260 --> 00:53:46.610
same way I am. I think that information that there
993
00:53:46.630 --> 00:53:50.429
are chemtrails is valuable data that's informing them about their environment.
994
00:53:50.449 --> 00:53:50.969
Do you see what I mean?
995
00:53:50.989 --> 00:53:53.860
It doesn't have to be accurate to be true. And
996
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:56.300
this is so hard, I think, for people to picture.
997
00:53:56.360 --> 00:53:59.079
If you trust the hallucination, you realize it's never going
998
00:53:59.099 --> 00:54:01.119
to be accurate, but it still could be true.
999
00:54:01.139 --> 00:54:03.940
Right on. This is fascinating. The last few minutes, I
1000
00:54:03.980 --> 00:54:09.389
want to further explore this Beyonder concept and help us
1001
00:54:09.449 --> 00:54:13.650
understand what these people are. You said that most likely
1002
00:54:13.710 --> 00:54:18.579
we're beyonders, the folks like us who are reaching beyond
1003
00:54:18.659 --> 00:54:23.219
some of the normal understandings of the nature of reality
1004
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:27.199
and what we're really about. But there are also what
1005
00:54:27.219 --> 00:54:30.699
you're saying is very powerful beyonders that can rise above
1006
00:54:30.739 --> 00:54:34.170
the psychopathy and still hold that level of power.
1007
00:54:34.190 --> 00:54:38.289
Yeah, I think that it's unavoidable that there have to
1008
00:54:38.329 --> 00:54:40.809
be out there. And I think the best proof of
1009
00:54:40.869 --> 00:54:41.190
that is.
1010
00:54:42.730 --> 00:54:43.389
If you look at.
1011
00:54:43.389 --> 00:54:49.429
Consciousness, there was a time when autonomy, it's still happening now.
1012
00:54:50.090 --> 00:54:54.030
Autonomy is sprouting. It's becoming more and more autonomous. And
1013
00:54:54.050 --> 00:54:56.929
I think this is your clue that beyonders exist. I'm
1014
00:54:56.949 --> 00:54:59.210
just going to use this as an example of self-employed people,
1015
00:54:59.369 --> 00:55:01.789
just because I just need to pick something. And it
1016
00:55:01.829 --> 00:55:03.750
kind of has simple math, so I'll just say it
1017
00:55:03.789 --> 00:55:08.139
that way. When I grew up, being self-employed was, I'm
1018
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:10.719
just going to make this up, maybe 7%. of the
1019
00:55:10.739 --> 00:55:13.019
people that you might know would grow up to be self-employed.
1020
00:55:13.059 --> 00:55:14.199
Like it's a smaller number.
1021
00:55:14.219 --> 00:55:18.400
It's a very elite field. I definitely think certain trades,
1022
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:20.420
you know, you might be able to argue with me
1023
00:55:20.460 --> 00:55:24.440
and say it's higher, but overall self-employment is increased as
1024
00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:28.079
consciousness is increased. When you are self-employed, you have a
1025
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:31.340
very different psyche. When I was employed at a job,
1026
00:55:31.460 --> 00:55:32.739
like when I was in the Navy a long, long
1027
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:35.480
time ago, I looked at my day as I have
1028
00:55:35.539 --> 00:55:40.409
to waste these hours until I can go home. Since 25,
1029
00:55:40.389 --> 00:55:43.090
I've been self-employed and I wake up and I'm like, fuck,
1030
00:55:43.190 --> 00:55:45.110
how can I get more hours so I can get
1031
00:55:45.150 --> 00:55:50.000
more done? It's a very different psychology. In my mind,
1032
00:55:50.260 --> 00:55:54.340
I am a beyonder because of that self-employment. It's a
1033
00:55:54.380 --> 00:55:57.800
loose thing, but it's like, and I'm a beyonder when
1034
00:55:57.860 --> 00:56:00.829
I noticed that voting, there's no way that could be legitimate.
1035
00:56:02.110 --> 00:56:04.510
I became a beyonder when I looked at building seven
1036
00:56:05.510 --> 00:56:09.289
and I said, wait a minute there. That can't be right.
1037
00:56:10.369 --> 00:56:14.289
This is conscious of beyondering. And this is, people get
1038
00:56:14.329 --> 00:56:16.250
so mad when I say this, but I just, I still,
1039
00:56:16.389 --> 00:56:18.110
if one of you hears this, I don't care if
1040
00:56:18.150 --> 00:56:19.590
the rest of you get mad. I want you to
1041
00:56:19.630 --> 00:56:23.460
hear this because I believe that Building 7 was placed
1042
00:56:23.500 --> 00:56:27.340
here for you by beyonders who wanted you to see.
1043
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:33.880
These are perfect people that do perfect things. If you
1044
00:56:33.920 --> 00:56:36.969
want to demo a building, even if you're not a psychopath,
1045
00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:41.059
you're going to be able to exactly decide when that
1046
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:42.019
thing is going to go down.
1047
00:56:42.260 --> 00:56:44.039
When you hit the button. There's no.
1048
00:56:45.500 --> 00:56:48.539
Trust me. People have been doing this a while. This
1049
00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:50.590
is important. We're going to get the right people to
1050
00:56:50.639 --> 00:56:50.889
do it.
1051
00:56:51.889 --> 00:56:56.150
In my mind, the Beyonders aren't showing us Building 7
1052
00:56:56.150 --> 00:56:59.550
because they're magnanimous and they're love and they're full of granola.
1053
00:56:59.650 --> 00:57:03.349
I think it's more about the garden itself. I think
1054
00:57:03.389 --> 00:57:06.300
that they look at the jungle and they're bored. with
1055
00:57:06.340 --> 00:57:10.440
how few of us are apex, with how few of
1056
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:13.150
us have reached that beyonder state. Keep in mind, if
1057
00:57:13.190 --> 00:57:15.309
you're a beyonder, no one is a threat to you.
1058
00:57:16.429 --> 00:57:19.969
Same if you're a psychopath. If you're truly a Rockefeller psychopath,
1059
00:57:20.650 --> 00:57:22.650
why do we have to have this fantasy that they
1060
00:57:22.690 --> 00:57:25.449
wake up every day to try and torture you and me?
1061
00:57:26.489 --> 00:57:29.389
We're not a threat to them. We are literally the
1062
00:57:29.449 --> 00:57:33.079
people that gave them all the power from day one
1063
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:35.940
and said, please give us petroleum and call it medicine.
1064
00:57:36.849 --> 00:57:40.099
There's no threat from there. If anything, we've enabled them.
1065
00:57:41.260 --> 00:57:44.119
So in my mind, the Beyonder is someone who sees
1066
00:57:44.300 --> 00:57:47.800
a need, has no fear at all of us waking up,
1067
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:52.630
sees an important need in the greenhouse itself expanding consciously.
1068
00:57:53.530 --> 00:57:56.469
In my mind, this makes more sense because it would
1069
00:57:56.530 --> 00:57:59.230
make a better garden. They're not doing it because they
1070
00:57:59.269 --> 00:58:00.969
want to help you. They're doing it because they want
1071
00:58:00.989 --> 00:58:03.760
to help them. There's nothing wrong with that. They want
1072
00:58:03.780 --> 00:58:06.360
to see a richer garden that has not just craft beer,
1073
00:58:06.949 --> 00:58:10.429
Right now, our lower societies, the pinnacle that we've done
1074
00:58:10.510 --> 00:58:11.489
is we have craft beer.
1075
00:58:12.150 --> 00:58:14.789
And maybe they want more. Maybe they want something a
1076
00:58:14.829 --> 00:58:16.070
little bit higher caliber.
1077
00:58:16.130 --> 00:58:18.070
Not because they want to help us, but because it
1078
00:58:18.110 --> 00:58:20.860
just makes the place more enjoyable to be around. If
1079
00:58:20.889 --> 00:58:22.780
you were a psychopath a long time ago and you
1080
00:58:22.800 --> 00:58:27.820
were taking over America, and I believe that Spain, Italy, France,
1081
00:58:27.900 --> 00:58:30.260
and England did that. They were like, hey, there's a
1082
00:58:30.320 --> 00:58:33.789
civilization there. We need to take them over. Let's pretend
1083
00:58:33.829 --> 00:58:36.230
like that we're all exploring. And, you know, this is
1084
00:58:36.530 --> 00:58:38.929
you're just watching how this works. But that as soon
1085
00:58:38.980 --> 00:58:40.920
as they came to this land, the first thing they
1086
00:58:41.000 --> 00:58:43.559
notice is we don't have any fucking roads. How do
1087
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:47.159
I install a government? They don't even have a public government.
1088
00:58:47.260 --> 00:58:50.000
We found Montezuma. But fuck, people in the Mississippi don't
1089
00:58:50.019 --> 00:58:50.820
even know who he is.
1090
00:58:51.530 --> 00:58:53.250
So we need it. We need an infrastructure.
1091
00:58:54.039 --> 00:58:56.380
And so the psychopaths would want that infrastructure to be
1092
00:58:56.440 --> 00:58:59.099
built the same way the beyonders would want the mental,
1093
00:58:59.139 --> 00:59:01.699
the conscious infrastructure to be built too. It's like, guys,
1094
00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:04.750
we need to raise this up a little bit. Let's
1095
00:59:04.769 --> 00:59:06.909
get some roads in here. Let's get a gas station
1096
00:59:06.929 --> 00:59:09.969
or two, right? Let's have a society where me as
1097
00:59:10.059 --> 00:59:14.079
a psychopath, I can travel around, right? And integrate and
1098
00:59:14.179 --> 00:59:16.780
access any point here just as I would my garden.
1099
00:59:16.840 --> 00:59:18.340
It's no different than saying, I want to put a
1100
00:59:18.389 --> 00:59:21.409
garden here. Let's get rid of all the briars so
1101
00:59:21.449 --> 00:59:24.829
I can walk around, right? So even the psychopath is helping.
1102
00:59:25.230 --> 00:59:27.190
Here's what's hard for people to see. I think the
1103
00:59:27.210 --> 00:59:30.219
psychopath is a tool of nature. It's a very important
1104
00:59:30.550 --> 00:59:34.840
tool of nature. It's a honey badger of people. It's
1105
00:59:34.900 --> 00:59:36.139
like this one little species.
1106
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:37.059
It's like, what the fuck?
1107
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:39.699
It's like, I know I'm a honey badger, but I'm important.
1108
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:42.199
And you may not know exactly why it's important, but
1109
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:44.960
it is. So it's sort of like a clearing. It's
1110
00:59:45.159 --> 00:59:47.860
teaching discernment all the time. This is why I believe
1111
00:59:47.900 --> 00:59:51.190
this realm is perfect. Psychopaths teach you discernment all the time.
1112
00:59:51.230 --> 00:59:53.050
All they do is teach you you're not paying enough attention.
1113
00:59:53.210 --> 00:59:53.789
That's all they do.
1114
00:59:54.570 --> 00:59:57.190
So really what they do is they waken us up.
1115
00:59:57.369 --> 00:59:58.360
They dilate us.
1116
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:02.489
Psychopaths dilate you the same way a jaguar dilates you.
1117
01:00:03.230 --> 01:00:05.730
The jungle gave you the jaguar so you would wake up.
1118
01:00:06.369 --> 01:00:08.449
If you could start to sense more than one color,
1119
01:00:09.610 --> 01:00:12.449
you'd be able to see the jaguar. And a long
1120
01:00:12.489 --> 01:00:14.150
time ago, I don't think that we have the four
1121
01:00:14.170 --> 01:00:15.030
colors we have now.
1122
01:00:15.110 --> 01:00:16.750
I can show you.
1123
01:00:18.050 --> 01:00:22.659
How the rainbows changed. That from Da Vinci to Newton,
1124
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:25.239
that Newton was like, no, it's five colors. And then
1125
01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.010
you got Da Vinci like, no, it's seven. I can
1126
01:00:28.030 --> 01:00:30.360
show you cultures that have still to this day have
1127
01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.940
not invented the word blue yet, Chris. I'm not making
1128
01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.380
that up. I can show you Gladstone and the work
1129
01:00:35.420 --> 01:00:40.000
of language that proves definitively that in, for example, in
1130
01:00:40.019 --> 01:00:44.559
the Iliad, a giant story about a boat on the
1131
01:00:44.619 --> 01:00:48.019
water underneath the sky. Dude never says the word blue.
1132
01:00:49.059 --> 01:00:50.929
Not once uses the word blue.
1133
01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:52.119
Why?
1134
01:00:52.949 --> 01:00:56.010
Because consciousness did not have the timber to see blue.
1135
01:00:56.409 --> 01:00:59.849
It did not have the hallucinatory mental aspects to see blue.
1136
01:01:00.349 --> 01:01:02.010
And if you look at the fovea of the eyes,
1137
01:01:02.030 --> 01:01:03.869
you're not going to see any blue cones in there,
1138
01:01:03.929 --> 01:01:07.130
which means that blue is a hallucination. We literally have
1139
01:01:07.170 --> 01:01:09.489
to paint it there. But we can only paint it
1140
01:01:09.530 --> 01:01:12.369
there when we have enough dopamine, i.e. the gas pedal
1141
01:01:12.409 --> 01:01:14.369
I was talking about, for your eyes to do that.
1142
01:01:14.829 --> 01:01:16.730
But we only have enough of that if we have
1143
01:01:16.769 --> 01:01:21.289
a giant tumor, literally, on our frontal lobe. The homo
1144
01:01:21.329 --> 01:01:24.199
sapien is, the first sapien is homo with a tumor.
1145
01:01:24.769 --> 01:01:27.309
And then homo sapien sapien is Homer with a tumor
1146
01:01:27.349 --> 01:01:29.489
that has a tumor on top of it. And that
1147
01:01:29.610 --> 01:01:33.110
second tumor is the awareness of our awareness of ourselves,
1148
01:01:33.699 --> 01:01:36.719
which is just the conscious architecture that we need to
1149
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:41.659
start to interpret visual signal as color inside of our retina.
1150
01:01:41.699 --> 01:01:44.400
It's not even visual then. It's signal that we interpret
1151
01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:46.820
as color because if we shade it into different colors,
1152
01:01:46.860 --> 01:01:49.059
we can discern it and we can say, those are roses.
1153
01:01:50.179 --> 01:01:54.599
Those are tulips, right? This is squash. It informs us
1154
01:01:54.719 --> 01:01:58.260
through hallucination. It's not the reality that's telling us this, Chris.
1155
01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:01.559
It's our hallucination of the reality that is so well
1156
01:02:02.090 --> 01:02:05.010
done that we allow to call it reality because it's
1157
01:02:05.070 --> 01:02:07.570
the best thing that we have that works.
1158
01:02:08.130 --> 01:02:12.329
I love it, man. This is fantastic information. Before you go,
1159
01:02:12.409 --> 01:02:15.849
is there any new projects upcoming? Anything you've been working
1160
01:02:15.949 --> 01:02:16.989
on that you'd like to share?
1161
01:02:18.889 --> 01:02:20.579
As I said, Black Eye Club is a book I
1162
01:02:20.619 --> 01:02:23.260
wrote a long time ago, but I've rewritten it. I've
1163
01:02:23.300 --> 01:02:25.920
just been able to put more time into it. That's
1164
01:02:25.940 --> 01:02:27.880
coming out really soon. I would love it if people
1165
01:02:27.920 --> 01:02:30.599
would check that out and see what they think. Otherwise,
1166
01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:33.800
I do a live stream here on YouTube and I
1167
01:02:33.820 --> 01:02:36.599
do what's called a dojo. We actually meet and talk
1168
01:02:36.659 --> 01:02:39.280
about cool stuff. If anyone's looking for that kind of
1169
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:42.400
mental flavor, you should check me out. Just Google James True.
1170
01:02:42.440 --> 01:02:43.840
You should be able to find me there. You can
1171
01:02:43.860 --> 01:02:45.579
join my Patreon for free if you want. That way
1172
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:48.869
you can just keep track of what I'm doing and, uh,
1173
01:02:48.949 --> 01:02:50.909
you know, see these invites and, uh, more about my
1174
01:02:50.949 --> 01:02:52.369
book and other ideas like that.
1175
01:02:52.389 --> 01:02:52.670
Excellent.
1176
01:02:52.969 --> 01:02:56.610
James, thank you so much. Definitely have to do this again.
1177
01:02:56.889 --> 01:03:01.179
Always love our conversations. Excuse me. Before you go, the
1178
01:03:01.219 --> 01:03:03.880
website once more is J true.com.
1179
01:03:04.539 --> 01:03:05.719
That's right.
1180
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:06.380
J true.com.
1181
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:09.320
Perfect. I'll have that in the description and until next time,
1182
01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:11.969
everyone have a wonderful evening. Today I want to welcome
1183
01:03:12.010 --> 01:03:14.670
back to the show Joshua Cutchin. He is author of
1184
01:03:14.750 --> 01:03:17.659
several books and has appeared on a wide variety of
1185
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:22.820
paranormal programs discussing his work. Joshua, welcome back. How you doing?
1186
01:03:23.860 --> 01:03:26.019
I'm doing well. I'm busy, but I guess I asked
1187
01:03:26.059 --> 01:03:28.070
for that because I released a new book. So that's
1188
01:03:28.190 --> 01:03:31.489
what always happens is just getting buried under emails for
1189
01:03:31.570 --> 01:03:33.909
a little while. But I'm surviving and it's better than
1190
01:03:33.929 --> 01:03:35.429
the alternative.
1191
01:03:35.429 --> 01:03:38.889
100%. I'd much rather be extremely busy like I already am.
1192
01:03:39.280 --> 01:03:43.090
than searching for something to do. So very good things, man.
1193
01:03:43.409 --> 01:03:44.409
And today I'm excited.
1194
01:03:44.429 --> 01:03:47.949
We're going to be discussing your latest book, Fourth Wall Phantoms.
1195
01:03:48.590 --> 01:03:54.349
It explores how elements and even beings from works of fiction, literature, folklore,
1196
01:03:54.389 --> 01:03:58.739
and films can at times manifest in people's lives and
1197
01:03:58.780 --> 01:04:03.940
the implications this may have on our understanding of paranormal phenomena, UFOs,
1198
01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:06.920
and non-human contact. And as you know, this is what
1199
01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:09.639
we're all about here. So we're really looking forward to
1200
01:04:09.699 --> 01:04:12.920
diving into this. First, just remind the audience a little
1201
01:04:12.940 --> 01:04:14.880
bit about yourself. Let them know where they can find
1202
01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:15.360
your work.
1203
01:04:17.559 --> 01:04:20.809
Well, I am an author of, it's always hard to
1204
01:04:20.889 --> 01:04:23.789
count because some books were conceived as one book and
1205
01:04:23.809 --> 01:04:28.010
they were split into multiple books. So nine-ish, eight-ish, nine-ish
1206
01:04:28.070 --> 01:04:33.389
books on the paranormal, which is a very broad topic. topic,
1207
01:04:33.650 --> 01:04:35.730
very broad term that I use when I talk about
1208
01:04:35.750 --> 01:04:39.170
these things. So yes, I do lump UFOs into the paranormal. Um,
1209
01:04:39.730 --> 01:04:41.289
and basically a lot of what, what a lot of
1210
01:04:41.309 --> 01:04:44.590
my work centers on is, is comparativism. So comparing, um,
1211
01:04:44.989 --> 01:04:48.019
stories from these different domains that we've always kept in
1212
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.679
their own categories and saying, well, what happens when you,
1213
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:52.280
you know, you look at the Bigfoot stories in the
1214
01:04:52.320 --> 01:04:54.500
context of the UFO stuff, or what happens when you
1215
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.349
look at, you know, UFOs in the context of psychedelia
1216
01:04:57.389 --> 01:04:59.780
or something along those lines. So A lot of that
1217
01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:03.650
and a lot of researching old, dusty books that talk
1218
01:05:03.690 --> 01:05:06.369
about ancient myths and legends and really sort of finding
1219
01:05:07.010 --> 01:05:09.349
new ways of approaching these topics, because I think that
1220
01:05:09.369 --> 01:05:11.449
we could always use new ways to look at these topics.
1221
01:05:12.630 --> 01:05:15.469
So tell us a synopsis of the book. What brought
1222
01:05:15.489 --> 01:05:16.610
you to write this, first of all?
1223
01:05:18.590 --> 01:05:20.750
Oh, man, there's so many different reasons why I ended
1224
01:05:20.820 --> 01:05:24.760
up writing this. You know, I had written Ecology of
1225
01:05:24.820 --> 01:05:27.639
Souls and I had so many moments after that where
1226
01:05:27.659 --> 01:05:29.320
I was like, do I just stop? Like, is this,
1227
01:05:29.500 --> 01:05:33.860
because it's so big and exhausting, but it's also felt
1228
01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:36.420
so comprehensive. I didn't really know what to do after that.
1229
01:05:36.460 --> 01:05:38.949
So I'm like, well, whatever, let's just cleanse our palates here.
1230
01:05:39.010 --> 01:05:40.889
So I wrote my novel, which is as different as
1231
01:05:40.929 --> 01:05:45.170
you could get, right? In terms of the workflow. And
1232
01:05:45.190 --> 01:05:47.889
I had an anthology of essays that was released, which
1233
01:05:47.929 --> 01:05:50.090
is also different. But I was like, okay, well, I've
1234
01:05:50.110 --> 01:05:52.400
got to like sort of, after you end up talking
1235
01:05:52.420 --> 01:05:55.320
about death over the course of 250,000 words, like you
1236
01:05:55.360 --> 01:05:58.059
have to find like an exit ramp, you know, you can't.
1237
01:05:58.420 --> 01:06:00.579
So this is sort of my exit ramp from being
1238
01:06:00.659 --> 01:06:04.329
that big and broad and talking about the nature of reality. Um,
1239
01:06:04.789 --> 01:06:07.010
so that was, that was part of it. Um, part
1240
01:06:07.050 --> 01:06:08.610
of it too, was I had a lot of ideas
1241
01:06:08.650 --> 01:06:10.949
that I didn't, they sort of loosely had a, had
1242
01:06:10.969 --> 01:06:12.679
a character or a flavor about them, but I didn't
1243
01:06:12.699 --> 01:06:15.019
really have a space to, to, to talk about them
1244
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:17.920
because it my blog, I do not maintain very well.
1245
01:06:17.980 --> 01:06:20.039
So I needed a place for these, these ideas to live,
1246
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:22.489
but they all did sort of fall together on this
1247
01:06:22.510 --> 01:06:27.750
sort of, um, fact fiction boundary. And, you know, finally,
1248
01:06:27.769 --> 01:06:31.150
I just, I love high strangeness so much. And, uh,
1249
01:06:31.409 --> 01:06:35.869
these sort of stories of fictional characters or events breaking
1250
01:06:35.929 --> 01:06:39.289
into the real world, uh, it doesn't get more top
1251
01:06:39.369 --> 01:06:42.210
shelf high strangeness than that. You know, it's, it's like the,
1252
01:06:42.750 --> 01:06:46.199
the wildest stuff. And quite frankly, um, A lot of
1253
01:06:46.219 --> 01:06:48.599
these stories don't have a home anywhere else. These are
1254
01:06:48.619 --> 01:06:53.360
not the stories that your orthodox ufologist or cryptozoologist will
1255
01:06:53.579 --> 01:06:57.119
really give much thought to. In fact, a lot of
1256
01:06:57.159 --> 01:07:00.019
them will point to these as evidence that people are lying. Like,
1257
01:07:00.039 --> 01:07:02.619
you know, this first appeared in this movie or whatever,
1258
01:07:02.659 --> 01:07:05.429
and so these people must be lying. But I think
1259
01:07:05.550 --> 01:07:09.650
once you sort of examine the phenomenon of people saying
1260
01:07:09.730 --> 01:07:14.809
that they encountered the Count from Sesame Street in their bedroom...
1261
01:07:15.070 --> 01:07:19.409
Or Donald Duck or something. I cannot understand why someone
1262
01:07:19.989 --> 01:07:22.650
wanting to be believed would make that up. You know
1263
01:07:22.690 --> 01:07:27.369
what I mean? It's tailor-made to not be believed. You
1264
01:07:27.389 --> 01:07:29.110
could not do a worse job of coming up with
1265
01:07:29.190 --> 01:07:33.070
a story. So if there is something to that, and again,
1266
01:07:33.389 --> 01:07:36.110
stories like that hadn't really been gathered together in one space.
1267
01:07:36.809 --> 01:07:38.570
If there is something to that, then what happens when
1268
01:07:38.590 --> 01:07:43.190
you take the implications of that and extend them to ufology, cryptozoology,
1269
01:07:43.230 --> 01:07:48.039
and parapsychology? You know, is there something about the phenomenon, singular,
1270
01:07:48.219 --> 01:07:53.320
as a whole, that is in this sort of reciprocal
1271
01:07:53.400 --> 01:07:56.500
call and response with our culture and with our media
1272
01:07:56.519 --> 01:08:00.219
and with our fictions? So, yeah, just small topics like that.
1273
01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:03.280
Because once you start exploring that, it leads you down
1274
01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:05.219
the garden path and you end up talking about, like,
1275
01:08:05.280 --> 01:08:08.480
what reality is and the nature of imagination. And it
1276
01:08:08.539 --> 01:08:11.099
does sort of, like these topics tend to do, spider
1277
01:08:11.139 --> 01:08:13.019
web out in a bunch of different directions. I know,
1278
01:08:13.039 --> 01:08:13.159
I know.
1279
01:08:13.360 --> 01:08:16.699
Well, maybe we could get just a few examples of
1280
01:08:16.779 --> 01:08:20.649
this throughout history that have been documented that we could
1281
01:08:20.689 --> 01:08:23.590
point to and say, well, that's pretty strange. And this
1282
01:08:23.670 --> 01:08:27.890
person seems to be not insane and having these experiences.
1283
01:08:28.350 --> 01:08:30.029
Is there anything like that we could cite?
1284
01:08:31.739 --> 01:08:36.380
Oh, absolutely. So the one that's the most famous that
1285
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:37.899
people know about, which is the one I always go
1286
01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:40.899
to because it's just so much fun. is Alan Moore,
1287
01:08:41.659 --> 01:08:44.399
creator of V for Vendetta and Watchmen, also created the
1288
01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:51.109
character of John Constantine, Hellblazer, who has been adapted for
1289
01:08:51.130 --> 01:08:53.590
the screen in a bunch of different capacities. But uh
1290
01:08:53.689 --> 01:08:57.720
alan moore says that after adapting uh constantine who he
1291
01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:01.659
based his appearance on sting the musician alan says that
1292
01:09:01.720 --> 01:09:05.800
he saw constantine walk into a sandwich shop in westminster
1293
01:09:06.140 --> 01:09:07.779
and they have this little look to each other and
1294
01:09:07.819 --> 01:09:10.000
he's like he looked just like sting actually no he
1295
01:09:10.020 --> 01:09:13.039
didn't look just like sting he looked like constantine and
1296
01:09:13.100 --> 01:09:15.390
people who have worked on constantine have had this sort
1297
01:09:15.430 --> 01:09:17.840
of um Same thing happened to them where they pass
1298
01:09:17.899 --> 01:09:19.810
by and they exchange a glance and then they look
1299
01:09:19.850 --> 01:09:24.649
and he's gone. And it's kind of funny because you
1300
01:09:24.670 --> 01:09:26.310
can kind of be like, oh, well, you know, Alan
1301
01:09:26.329 --> 01:09:29.029
Moore is a practicing magician and maybe he's, you know,
1302
01:09:29.609 --> 01:09:32.310
to the normies out there, they might view his worldview
1303
01:09:32.369 --> 01:09:35.850
as kooky or something. But this is actually really, really
1304
01:09:36.189 --> 01:09:39.529
extensively documented. There's another book, you know, every now and
1305
01:09:39.550 --> 01:09:42.510
then when you're working on a book, you find another person.
1306
01:09:42.899 --> 01:09:44.380
bit of research that you kind of just want to
1307
01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:47.159
copy paste into your book, not in the sense that
1308
01:09:47.189 --> 01:09:48.670
you want to plagiarize it, but in the sense that
1309
01:09:48.689 --> 01:09:50.829
you're like, Oh no, everyone needs to read this too.
1310
01:09:51.409 --> 01:09:54.369
And there's a book that was released, uh, I believe, uh, 2023, uh,
1311
01:09:55.340 --> 01:09:59.789
by a person named Chidambaram Ramesh and, uh, Chidambaram, um,
1312
01:10:00.489 --> 01:10:03.869
looked at this phenomenon in a book called Embodied Imaginations.
1313
01:10:04.470 --> 01:10:07.869
And what was revealed was that this is actually a really,
1314
01:10:07.949 --> 01:10:12.149
really common thing amongst all sorts of creative people in general,
1315
01:10:12.229 --> 01:10:17.369
but especially authors. We're talking about people who are taught
1316
01:10:17.449 --> 01:10:24.489
in schools. You know, Shelley, Rudyard Kipling. There's some great
1317
01:10:24.529 --> 01:10:28.810
stories from Alice Walker, who wrote The Color Purple. who
1318
01:10:28.850 --> 01:10:31.189
talked about her characters coming in and sitting down on
1319
01:10:31.210 --> 01:10:34.489
the couch and them sort of talking through their day
1320
01:10:34.529 --> 01:10:38.770
and sort of working through their emotions together. And you
1321
01:10:38.789 --> 01:10:41.189
look at that and you're like, what is happening? Heinrich Ibsen,
1322
01:10:41.229 --> 01:10:43.529
who wrote The Doll's House, had one of his characters, Nora,
1323
01:10:43.609 --> 01:10:48.050
manifest behind him and touch him. And so this is
1324
01:10:48.069 --> 01:10:50.470
an entire book just based on that, as it's seen
1325
01:10:50.510 --> 01:10:56.250
through the work of authors. But two studies, 2014 and 2018...
1326
01:10:56.770 --> 01:11:00.029
were carried out by The Guardian and researchers from Durham University.
1327
01:11:00.390 --> 01:11:03.569
And they went to authors at the Edinburgh International Book Festival,
1328
01:11:03.590 --> 01:11:05.890
and they said, you know, do you ever have these
1329
01:11:05.949 --> 01:11:09.069
experiences where your characters interact with you? And, you know,
1330
01:11:09.770 --> 01:11:14.510
what was reported was a fairly broad spectrum of sort
1331
01:11:14.550 --> 01:11:17.869
of phenomena. Everything from this idea that characters will sort
1332
01:11:17.909 --> 01:11:20.789
of push back when you try to force them into...
1333
01:11:21.500 --> 01:11:23.579
plot that they wouldn't do or to take actions that
1334
01:11:23.619 --> 01:11:25.319
they wouldn't do, the characters will sort of push back
1335
01:11:25.359 --> 01:11:26.680
and you'll get a sense, like you can kind of
1336
01:11:26.720 --> 01:11:28.239
hear them in your head or they kind of push
1337
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:32.750
back or things like that, all the way to people
1338
01:11:32.909 --> 01:11:38.029
having what you would uncharitably call oral hallucinations to visual
1339
01:11:38.090 --> 01:11:43.430
hallucinations or visual interactions with these characters. For example, 63%
1340
01:11:43.430 --> 01:11:46.029
of these respondents, these authors, claimed that they could hear
1341
01:11:46.069 --> 01:11:50.369
their characters speak while writing and another 61% reported that
1342
01:11:50.390 --> 01:11:55.989
characters were capable of acting independently. 56% of those writers
1343
01:11:56.529 --> 01:11:59.180
said that they had visual or other sort of sensory
1344
01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:02.220
experiences while they were writing, and a fifth of them
1345
01:12:02.359 --> 01:12:04.720
had a sense that the character was occupying the same
1346
01:12:04.960 --> 01:12:09.489
physical space. 15% said they had conversations with their characters.
1347
01:12:09.510 --> 01:12:10.029
Wow.
1348
01:12:11.140 --> 01:12:12.979
And this is something that I had heard as well.
1349
01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:17.979
I have some author friends who are sort of atheist
1350
01:12:18.000 --> 01:12:20.220
types who write fiction. And when I was working on
1351
01:12:20.340 --> 01:12:24.199
Them Old Ways Never Died, I said, how do you
1352
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:27.979
find what your characters will do? And they said, oh, well,
1353
01:12:28.000 --> 01:12:30.060
if you've got a really well-rounded character, they'll tell you
1354
01:12:30.100 --> 01:12:31.680
what to do and not to do. And I'm like,
1355
01:12:32.399 --> 01:12:35.439
do you listen to yourself? Do you hear yourself? So,
1356
01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:38.350
you know. And that's sort of the big question is
1357
01:12:38.430 --> 01:12:40.489
I don't know what that is. You know, there's one
1358
01:12:40.510 --> 01:12:42.430
line of thinking that would say, oh, it's all tulpas
1359
01:12:42.470 --> 01:12:45.430
or egregores. But I'm really not satisfied by those answers.
1360
01:12:45.470 --> 01:12:48.750
You know, tulpas have more to do with theosophy than
1361
01:12:48.789 --> 01:12:51.270
they do Eastern religions, to be honest, if you really
1362
01:12:51.310 --> 01:12:54.659
dig down into it. I think that those concepts make sense,
1363
01:12:54.699 --> 01:12:56.220
like the idea that you can put enough thought and
1364
01:12:56.260 --> 01:13:00.260
energy into something. But I'm not sure that these things
1365
01:13:01.220 --> 01:13:04.819
don't exist somewhere else before they find people almost parasitically,
1366
01:13:04.979 --> 01:13:07.359
you know. There's that great quote. There's a great quote
1367
01:13:07.380 --> 01:13:09.899
that's attributed to Carl Jung that says, I don't think
1368
01:13:09.939 --> 01:13:13.460
he really said it, but it's very Jungian, where supposedly
1369
01:13:13.500 --> 01:13:16.399
he said, people don't have ideas, ideas have people. And
1370
01:13:16.439 --> 01:13:18.550
that's sort of the space that I try to explore
1371
01:13:18.590 --> 01:13:22.210
in this and then put in dialogue with UFOs, cryptids,
1372
01:13:22.270 --> 01:13:22.789
and ghosts.
1373
01:13:22.970 --> 01:13:28.390
It's not often where you'll hear about group experiences, group visions,
1374
01:13:28.510 --> 01:13:33.010
group hallucinations, or contact experiences with different entities.
1375
01:13:33.069 --> 01:13:34.390
I've heard it rarely.
1376
01:13:35.220 --> 01:13:39.260
I've had an experience, although it was under the effect
1377
01:13:39.300 --> 01:13:42.100
of a very powerful psychedelic. I'll tell you about it
1378
01:13:42.119 --> 01:13:45.619
because it's a little interesting. I was on my way
1379
01:13:45.699 --> 01:13:49.970
to New Orleans, and this was in my late teenage years.
1380
01:13:50.029 --> 01:13:54.229
I was a very dumb kid, and we did very
1381
01:13:54.289 --> 01:13:54.810
dumb things.
1382
01:13:55.590 --> 01:13:57.289
New Orleans is a dangerous place to go in your
1383
01:13:57.310 --> 01:13:57.930
teenage years.
1384
01:13:58.170 --> 01:14:02.909
So we were under the effects of LSD, and one
1385
01:14:02.930 --> 01:14:05.970
of my friends who was... under the effects of LSD,
1386
01:14:06.050 --> 01:14:09.829
was driving the vehicle. And two of the other people,
1387
01:14:09.869 --> 01:14:12.550
which was myself and another friend, I was in the
1388
01:14:12.609 --> 01:14:14.939
front and he was right in the back. We were
1389
01:14:15.069 --> 01:14:18.479
in a truck. And at the same time, we all
1390
01:14:18.739 --> 01:14:21.640
started to see the same things because we all described
1391
01:14:21.680 --> 01:14:24.180
it to each other after. We all started screaming at
1392
01:14:24.239 --> 01:14:26.960
the same time. And we were yelling what we were
1393
01:14:27.020 --> 01:14:30.340
seeing at the same time. It was pretty incredible. First,
1394
01:14:30.399 --> 01:14:35.199
we saw the road just shift and swerve In ways
1395
01:14:35.279 --> 01:14:37.979
that were terrifying. It looked like we were going to
1396
01:14:38.020 --> 01:14:40.539
get flung off the road because the road was dancing.
1397
01:14:41.220 --> 01:14:43.920
Then he pulls over and he's got his hands on
1398
01:14:43.960 --> 01:14:46.699
the wheel. And when he lets go, we all at
1399
01:14:46.739 --> 01:14:49.300
the same time, we're looking at his hands like, oh
1400
01:14:49.319 --> 01:14:53.069
my God, it's Mickey Mouse. You've got Mickey Mouse. All
1401
01:14:53.189 --> 01:14:55.810
three of us. And even he saw it. And we
1402
01:14:55.829 --> 01:14:57.550
get out of the truck and he's got these big
1403
01:14:57.609 --> 01:15:00.289
Mickey Mouse glove hands. And we're running around the side
1404
01:15:00.310 --> 01:15:02.770
of the road freaking out because he's got Mickey Mouse
1405
01:15:02.789 --> 01:15:06.100
glove hands. Luckily, they had a couple of sober friends
1406
01:15:06.159 --> 01:15:09.210
behind us that were following us for just probably this
1407
01:15:09.289 --> 01:15:11.550
very reason. And we jumped in with them for the
1408
01:15:11.609 --> 01:15:13.689
rest of the trip. But I don't know if that's
1409
01:15:13.729 --> 01:15:16.050
a good example of this, but we did all see
1410
01:15:16.069 --> 01:15:17.550
the same thing at the same time.
1411
01:15:18.029 --> 01:15:21.010
Yeah, I love those stories. And you do find that
1412
01:15:21.050 --> 01:15:24.029
with some trip reports where people will both experience something
1413
01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:28.640
at the same time. I knew someone personally that I
1414
01:15:28.659 --> 01:15:32.020
was on a gig with who was talking about taking
1415
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:37.609
mushrooms together. And she went inside to get some water,
1416
01:15:37.649 --> 01:15:39.289
and she's getting some water at the kitchen sink, and
1417
01:15:39.329 --> 01:15:41.710
she looks out the window, and she sees this bright
1418
01:15:41.770 --> 01:15:44.720
light shining down on her boyfriend. She's like, oh, I'm
1419
01:15:44.760 --> 01:15:48.020
hallucinating an alien abduction. And she goes out there, and
1420
01:15:48.039 --> 01:15:50.180
he's like, honey, you won't believe what just happened. It
1421
01:15:50.380 --> 01:15:52.420
was almost like I got– I think I just barely
1422
01:15:52.460 --> 01:15:55.159
didn't get taken by a UFO. Now, we could sit
1423
01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:57.189
here and say– We can sit here and say that
1424
01:15:57.210 --> 01:16:00.869
they just both happened to be taking mushrooms while an
1425
01:16:01.029 --> 01:16:03.750
actual nuts and bolts UFO flew overhead. But I think
1426
01:16:03.789 --> 01:16:06.899
something more interesting is going on there because you do
1427
01:16:06.939 --> 01:16:10.220
have those sort of stories. And that doesn't really comport
1428
01:16:10.260 --> 01:16:13.439
well with this idea that, you know, we were talking earlier,
1429
01:16:13.479 --> 01:16:16.199
you and I, before we started recording this, about how
1430
01:16:16.220 --> 01:16:19.680
much of this is our own personal experience, our own
1431
01:16:19.720 --> 01:16:22.039
personal baggage. But there does seem to be something a
1432
01:16:22.079 --> 01:16:24.500
lot of times that's shared or sort of objective at
1433
01:16:24.520 --> 01:16:27.819
the core of these things. And I find that really interesting.
1434
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:30.800
You know, on the flip side, I also find really
1435
01:16:30.819 --> 01:16:34.960
compelling these stories where everybody in a group sees something,
1436
01:16:35.020 --> 01:16:37.680
but they don't really know exactly, they can't agree on
1437
01:16:37.720 --> 01:16:40.239
exactly what. You know, they'll talk about, oh, yeah, I
1438
01:16:40.279 --> 01:16:42.220
saw a UFO, but its lights were blue. And I
1439
01:16:42.279 --> 01:16:44.470
saw a UFO, but its lights were red. And it's like, well,
1440
01:16:44.479 --> 01:16:45.949
I saw a UFO, but it didn't have any lights.
1441
01:16:45.989 --> 01:16:47.989
It was just a black triangle. Those sort of things
1442
01:16:48.029 --> 01:16:50.149
you run into quite frequently, and you actually do run
1443
01:16:50.170 --> 01:16:52.270
into in some cryptid reports as well, where there are
1444
01:16:52.289 --> 01:16:56.810
discrepancies between the description of the being. So it's, you know,
1445
01:16:56.829 --> 01:17:01.050
we're talking about masks. We're talking about, um, uh, we're
1446
01:17:01.069 --> 01:17:04.569
talking about, you know, expectations, but where do those expectations
1447
01:17:04.630 --> 01:17:06.689
come from? I think that a lot of them come from,
1448
01:17:06.720 --> 01:17:10.270
a lot of them come from culture. Um, and, uh,
1449
01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:15.119
I do find interesting this idea that sometimes it's what
1450
01:17:15.180 --> 01:17:18.840
we expect it to be. And sometimes, um, It's the
1451
01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:23.909
phenomenon itself reacting to our fictions and such. And, you know,
1452
01:17:23.930 --> 01:17:26.310
this has been pretty well documented in the UFO literature
1453
01:17:26.390 --> 01:17:30.109
that something will oftentimes appear in fiction first before it's
1454
01:17:30.149 --> 01:17:32.149
picked up by the phenomenon. I mean, something as simple
1455
01:17:32.229 --> 01:17:37.140
as the stopped engine or the electronic interference that you
1456
01:17:37.199 --> 01:17:40.930
see with some UFO sightings by all appearances, first appeared
1457
01:17:41.029 --> 01:17:45.560
in some of those early 20th century pulps before appearing
1458
01:17:45.659 --> 01:17:47.779
first in Leveland, I think, was the first set of
1459
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:51.859
UFO sightings where they appeared for good. What does that mean?
1460
01:17:51.880 --> 01:17:53.340
I don't think it means that the people who are
1461
01:17:53.380 --> 01:17:57.850
reporting that in actual experiences are lying. I think that
1462
01:17:57.890 --> 01:18:00.829
it means that there is some sort of Ouroboros, some
1463
01:18:00.869 --> 01:18:03.369
sort of cycle between the phenomenon and our culture that
1464
01:18:03.390 --> 01:18:05.930
keeps on going back and forth. And I allude to
1465
01:18:05.949 --> 01:18:07.329
this in the book a little bit where I think
1466
01:18:07.369 --> 01:18:12.130
that if you trace those tropes back far enough, you're
1467
01:18:12.149 --> 01:18:14.369
going to have this game of one-upsmanship and chicken and
1468
01:18:14.390 --> 01:18:16.109
the egging, right? It's going to be like, no, it
1469
01:18:16.149 --> 01:18:17.869
first appeared in a sighting. Oh, no, but here's an
1470
01:18:17.930 --> 01:18:20.029
earlier fictional version. You're going to keep on going back.
1471
01:18:20.069 --> 01:18:23.479
And I think really you wind up at petroglyphs. If
1472
01:18:23.489 --> 01:18:25.420
you keep doing that, you wind up at rock art.
1473
01:18:26.060 --> 01:18:27.699
And then at that point when you're at that time depth,
1474
01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:29.359
you're like, well, is this art or is this a
1475
01:18:29.420 --> 01:18:32.920
record of reality? And there's some ambiguity there. And I
1476
01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:33.800
think that might be the point.
1477
01:18:34.149 --> 01:18:37.750
You said something interesting earlier that at times it seems
1478
01:18:37.949 --> 01:18:44.640
almost parasitic. Like this etheric energy infiltrates our consciousness and
1479
01:18:44.859 --> 01:18:49.050
based on our fears, our experiences, our understanding of things,
1480
01:18:49.770 --> 01:18:53.649
it will learn from that and expose us to things
1481
01:18:53.729 --> 01:18:58.449
that will lead in a certain direction of thinking. And
1482
01:18:58.489 --> 01:19:01.100
this can happen collectively, and it seems to be the
1483
01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:02.579
case with the UFO phenomenon.
1484
01:19:04.319 --> 01:19:06.880
Yeah. I really am happy that you highlighted that, you know, um,
1485
01:19:07.119 --> 01:19:10.500
the creator, Mary Poppins, P.L. Travers, um, who was a
1486
01:19:10.579 --> 01:19:15.930
mentor to Whitley Strieber, oddly enough, um, uh, really had
1487
01:19:15.970 --> 01:19:17.970
this idea that she, she claimed that Mary Poppins just
1488
01:19:18.010 --> 01:19:19.869
sort of came to her, the idea of Mary Poppins
1489
01:19:19.909 --> 01:19:21.550
came to her and that it was almost like there
1490
01:19:21.569 --> 01:19:25.649
are these, she thought of ideas as, um, balloons, uh,
1491
01:19:26.310 --> 01:19:30.010
sort of floating down to her. Um, and that, you know,
1492
01:19:30.050 --> 01:19:35.109
she sort of like caught these, these different balloon ideas. Um, And,
1493
01:19:35.409 --> 01:19:37.649
you know, a lot of ideas were like this, and
1494
01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:42.180
sometimes they get picked up and sometimes they don't. And
1495
01:19:42.579 --> 01:19:44.800
I think that's really interesting, especially when you sort of
1496
01:19:46.020 --> 01:19:49.060
take a look at that with another idea in mind,
1497
01:19:49.100 --> 01:19:55.229
which my friend Wren Collier, a cultist friend of mine,
1498
01:19:56.409 --> 01:19:58.789
said at one point in a presentation that I saw
1499
01:19:58.829 --> 01:20:01.850
him giving that he thought that spirits were made of stories.
1500
01:20:03.180 --> 01:20:04.359
And we can go into that. We can sort of
1501
01:20:04.380 --> 01:20:05.420
put a pin in that if you want to. But
1502
01:20:05.859 --> 01:20:09.060
the point is that this was an adaptation, an upgrade
1503
01:20:09.079 --> 01:20:10.539
of an idea that he had earlier, which was the
1504
01:20:10.579 --> 01:20:12.850
idea of the supernatural, the paranormal as being sort of
1505
01:20:12.890 --> 01:20:16.210
a memetic or a noetic virus. And the idea that
1506
01:20:16.250 --> 01:20:18.489
it does sort of spread from person to person. And
1507
01:20:18.510 --> 01:20:21.729
I think that, you know, that might be what we're
1508
01:20:21.750 --> 01:20:23.699
looking at when the skeptics say that something is a
1509
01:20:23.739 --> 01:20:26.279
symptom of mass hysteria because they always like to say that, right? Oh,
1510
01:20:26.300 --> 01:20:29.520
it's mass hysteria. You're like, okay, well, what is that brother? Like, like,
1511
01:20:29.560 --> 01:20:31.899
like what does that even mean? Um, and I think
1512
01:20:31.939 --> 01:20:34.510
that it might be these ideas spreading between people like
1513
01:20:34.739 --> 01:20:37.949
in the, in a semi viral fashion. And if they, um,
1514
01:20:38.210 --> 01:20:39.850
you know, starts with an individual and then it proceeds
1515
01:20:39.869 --> 01:20:41.770
to a group and if it gets enough traction, then
1516
01:20:41.789 --> 01:20:44.189
it becomes part of our, part of our culture. I mean,
1517
01:20:44.689 --> 01:20:48.100
a good example of this, um, you know, I'm not
1518
01:20:48.159 --> 01:20:52.199
saying that, uh, all of the sightings were indeed anomalous,
1519
01:20:52.260 --> 01:20:55.119
but a good example of this is, is the, the
1520
01:20:55.159 --> 01:20:59.239
drone flap at the end of, of 2024. Um, you know,
1521
01:20:59.699 --> 01:21:01.630
for better or worse, like people are going to, people,
1522
01:21:02.670 --> 01:21:05.289
drones and UFOs are going to be conflated much more
1523
01:21:05.329 --> 01:21:08.590
now because that idea has, has taken root. And, uh,
1524
01:21:08.829 --> 01:21:12.270
you know, I still think that that's, that's one of
1525
01:21:12.289 --> 01:21:14.680
these upgrades that we see from the UFO phenomenon for
1526
01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.800
time to time, you know, airships to flying saucers, to
1527
01:21:17.939 --> 01:21:20.460
black triangles, to, Now Tic Tacs, and this is what
1528
01:21:20.479 --> 01:21:21.760
I've been saying for a while, like when the Tic
1529
01:21:21.800 --> 01:21:23.279
Tac footage came out, I'm like, we're going to start
1530
01:21:23.310 --> 01:21:25.449
seeing drone UFOs, and I think that's what the phenomenon
1531
01:21:25.489 --> 01:21:25.909
has done.
1532
01:21:25.930 --> 01:21:29.050
Yeah, 100%. Now going back to what we're seeing in
1533
01:21:29.130 --> 01:21:35.090
entertainment and cinema, a popular phrase making its way around
1534
01:21:35.510 --> 01:21:41.189
these discussions, and that's predictive programming. To me, it seems
1535
01:21:41.270 --> 01:21:45.739
like there's much more to this than just an idea
1536
01:21:45.779 --> 01:21:49.489
of the future popping into a producer or a creative
1537
01:21:49.529 --> 01:21:52.689
person's head and they put it into the film. I
1538
01:21:52.789 --> 01:21:56.649
think that there is something much larger seeming to be
1539
01:21:56.729 --> 01:22:00.510
telling a story on many different layers, on individual layers
1540
01:22:00.590 --> 01:22:04.949
in our individual lives and collectively. And this force seems
1541
01:22:05.029 --> 01:22:10.850
to have access to the collective and individual understandings of
1542
01:22:10.909 --> 01:22:14.850
things and plays off of both. It seems like this
1543
01:22:14.909 --> 01:22:18.069
kind of greater force that we're dealing with. And like
1544
01:22:18.090 --> 01:22:19.829
you said, it's a storytelling force.
1545
01:22:21.890 --> 01:22:26.979
Yeah, let's pick apart this whole predictive programming idea because
1546
01:22:27.720 --> 01:22:29.960
I think that, first of all, multiple things can be
1547
01:22:30.079 --> 01:22:32.439
true at once. I think there's some stuff that probably
1548
01:22:32.560 --> 01:22:34.479
is just what it seems to be in that regard.
1549
01:22:35.840 --> 01:22:40.539
And I have a great deal of sympathy for I
1550
01:22:40.579 --> 01:22:43.560
love reading about synchromysticism and the revelation of the method
1551
01:22:43.579 --> 01:22:46.579
and all this stuff, right? I love all that. That's
1552
01:22:46.659 --> 01:22:48.800
one thing to keep on the table, the predictive programming stuff.
1553
01:22:48.840 --> 01:22:51.180
Another thing to keep on the table is retrocausality and
1554
01:22:51.199 --> 01:22:53.380
this idea of time loops and this idea that people
1555
01:22:53.520 --> 01:22:57.560
are having a premonition, whether realized or not, and incorporating
1556
01:22:57.579 --> 01:23:00.140
it into their art. And then when that thing comes true,
1557
01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:02.279
you're like, oh, the art created it. And it's like, no,
1558
01:23:02.319 --> 01:23:04.670
that thing existed or neither here nor there, you know,
1559
01:23:04.689 --> 01:23:05.710
it's a sort of loop, right?
1560
01:23:06.010 --> 01:23:09.369
Something like this event had such a powerful ripple effect
1561
01:23:09.430 --> 01:23:12.329
in the future that it sent back information that you
1562
01:23:12.369 --> 01:23:13.930
picked up on. Yeah.
1563
01:23:14.310 --> 01:23:17.310
Eric Wargo's books, Time Loops and From Nowhere, talk about
1564
01:23:17.350 --> 01:23:19.649
that a lot, and it's great stuff, and that plays
1565
01:23:19.670 --> 01:23:21.260
a role in this too. But at the same time,
1566
01:23:21.340 --> 01:23:24.539
I do think there are other considerations to be had.
1567
01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:28.079
My biggest problem with this idea of predictive programming is
1568
01:23:28.119 --> 01:23:31.720
that it implies sort of a disenchanted universe to begin with. Like, oh,
1569
01:23:31.760 --> 01:23:34.850
there are... authority structures that want to put this into
1570
01:23:34.890 --> 01:23:36.909
media to get you used to the idea of what
1571
01:23:36.949 --> 01:23:39.189
they're going to do. And it's not quite as mystic
1572
01:23:39.270 --> 01:23:41.529
or as, as, as magical as, as I think it
1573
01:23:41.850 --> 01:23:44.310
could be. Um, but the other thing that I think
1574
01:23:44.350 --> 01:23:49.550
is worth considering too, is that, um, that it isn't
1575
01:23:49.590 --> 01:23:54.510
predictive programming. It's like wishful thinking slash manifestation techniques. You
1576
01:23:54.529 --> 01:23:57.869
know what I mean? Like, um, it's, it's all, so
1577
01:23:58.149 --> 01:24:01.479
the example that I use, um, is this is kind
1578
01:24:01.520 --> 01:24:03.199
of a mind bender, but if you're familiar with the
1579
01:24:03.300 --> 01:24:07.819
Omo affair, um, which was a series of, of, uh,
1580
01:24:08.460 --> 01:24:12.640
UFO sightings in Spain in, uh, the mid 1960s. And
1581
01:24:12.659 --> 01:24:15.060
they were all, it's actually a pretty impressive hoax. It
1582
01:24:15.100 --> 01:24:16.699
was revealed as a hoax, but it was a pretty
1583
01:24:16.770 --> 01:24:19.090
impressive folks because there was a bunch of technical literature
1584
01:24:19.109 --> 01:24:21.670
that came out, uh, talking about the life of the
1585
01:24:21.789 --> 01:24:27.439
Omites as they lived there. Um, In hindsight, it seems
1586
01:24:27.479 --> 01:24:31.699
like this was a CIA op. It was almost certainly
1587
01:24:31.739 --> 01:24:36.039
a hoax orchestrated by Jose Luis Jordan Pena. But it
1588
01:24:36.079 --> 01:24:39.439
seems like he made allusions to having enough CIA intelligence
1589
01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:43.560
connections to obtain radioactive sand for faking some landing sites.
1590
01:24:43.619 --> 01:24:45.619
So it's like, well, if I can get radioactive sand
1591
01:24:45.649 --> 01:24:47.619
for the landing site, the CIA probably has a vested
1592
01:24:47.649 --> 01:24:49.710
interest in this. And that's one of the ideas that's
1593
01:24:49.729 --> 01:24:52.789
been put forward is that the Omo affair was orchestrated
1594
01:24:52.829 --> 01:25:01.149
to undermine Franco's regime in Spain. But people unrelated to
1595
01:25:01.210 --> 01:25:07.390
this saw UFOs, it really does seem. And what's more
1596
01:25:07.449 --> 01:25:16.390
is Dr. Jacques Vallée pointed out similarities between this entire flap,
1597
01:25:16.510 --> 01:25:22.050
this entire incident, the Umo affair, the hoax, and Georges
1598
01:25:22.090 --> 01:25:27.109
Borges' short story about This group of people who literally
1599
01:25:27.510 --> 01:25:31.170
start sending out an encyclopedia from another world bit by bit,
1600
01:25:31.630 --> 01:25:35.539
and slowly their reality transforms into that world. And Valet said,
1601
01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:37.579
maybe there's something similar going on here. And I'm like, well,
1602
01:25:37.600 --> 01:25:40.479
that seems to me like, you know, if the CIA
1603
01:25:40.520 --> 01:25:43.859
was backing this person to do hoaxes and those hoaxes
1604
01:25:44.439 --> 01:25:48.430
manifested actual UFO sightings in the air, some of which
1605
01:25:48.449 --> 01:25:51.300
the Omo symbol still appears in some UFO sightings to
1606
01:25:51.340 --> 01:25:54.880
this day, then maybe that's one of these mechanisms that
1607
01:25:55.319 --> 01:25:57.760
authority structures operate on, and we're just the last ones
1608
01:25:57.779 --> 01:26:00.079
to catch on to it. We do have magicians in
1609
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:03.399
places of power that are seeding this stuff into the culture,
1610
01:26:03.939 --> 01:26:06.170
not in terms of predictive programming, like, oh, this is
1611
01:26:06.229 --> 01:26:08.789
what we're going to do, but in terms of, oh,
1612
01:26:08.829 --> 01:26:11.850
maybe we can actually shift reality to be a version
1613
01:26:11.909 --> 01:26:16.750
of what we want it to be. Mind-breaking stuff, right?
1614
01:26:16.850 --> 01:26:19.350
I definitely wanted to cover that, but since you mentioned it,
1615
01:26:19.439 --> 01:26:24.840
let's go there. The weaponization of paranormal phenomena, and like
1616
01:26:24.859 --> 01:26:28.180
you said, it doesn't necessarily have to be intentionally weaponized,
1617
01:26:28.779 --> 01:26:31.520
but I think that when you're dealing with this stuff,
1618
01:26:32.220 --> 01:26:37.659
there's some aspects that humanity probably shouldn't be aware of,
1619
01:26:38.079 --> 01:26:41.760
that we shouldn't know yet, or we're not supposed to
1620
01:26:42.409 --> 01:26:45.109
That's just my personal opinion. It does seem like there
1621
01:26:45.170 --> 01:26:48.649
could be some dangers involved when trying to harness a
1622
01:26:48.710 --> 01:26:52.449
lot of this stuff. In my trip to Skinwalker Ranch,
1623
01:26:53.050 --> 01:26:59.149
it was mind-blowing the amount of military presence, black op
1624
01:26:59.180 --> 01:27:02.319
teams that were not just surrounding the area, but they
1625
01:27:02.359 --> 01:27:04.579
had an interest in what I was doing there, what
1626
01:27:04.640 --> 01:27:06.899
me and my wife were doing there. They had lasers
1627
01:27:07.000 --> 01:27:12.100
trained on me. There is something very powerful about happening
1628
01:27:12.220 --> 01:27:14.939
in a lot of these spaces where they're trying to
1629
01:27:15.000 --> 01:27:18.840
understand the energy or whatever is really happening here but
1630
01:27:19.239 --> 01:27:23.890
there's also another layer of what's already being implemented what
1631
01:27:23.930 --> 01:27:29.609
do they already know and human activities concern me way
1632
01:27:29.649 --> 01:27:32.369
more than spirit or ghost activities.
1633
01:27:33.430 --> 01:27:35.869
Well right because it's the same revelation that i had
1634
01:27:35.890 --> 01:27:37.670
because i used to be i don't know if you
1635
01:27:37.689 --> 01:27:42.819
knew this but Until way too late in my life,
1636
01:27:43.279 --> 01:27:47.220
I was terrified of alien abductions. But when I started
1637
01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:50.539
looking at the altered state of consciousness stuff and the
1638
01:27:50.579 --> 01:27:52.640
idea that this was unfolding in a different space or
1639
01:27:52.739 --> 01:27:54.899
had something to do with a different space, I was like, oh,
1640
01:27:55.470 --> 01:27:57.529
I have a degree of... I have a say in
1641
01:27:57.550 --> 01:28:00.289
the matter. Like, I have a degree of sovereignty to this.
1642
01:28:01.229 --> 01:28:03.409
And that really sort of flipped the entire scenario for
1643
01:28:03.430 --> 01:28:05.989
me where I'm not afraid of it anymore. Check in
1644
01:28:06.029 --> 01:28:08.409
with me tonight when it's 2 a.m. in the morning,
1645
01:28:08.449 --> 01:28:14.439
but Anyway, but yeah, I am much more hesitant of
1646
01:28:14.590 --> 01:28:20.710
terrestrial shenanigans than I am from something from that other space. Yeah,
1647
01:28:23.470 --> 01:28:31.329
I wonder sometimes, because there was a very under-discussed passage
1648
01:28:31.369 --> 01:28:34.270
from one of Whitley Strieber's books. It talks about him
1649
01:28:34.380 --> 01:28:38.779
reading a memo from Wright Patterson. And supposedly the paper
1650
01:28:38.819 --> 01:28:43.590
said that the visitor's ability to enter our reality was
1651
01:28:43.949 --> 01:28:49.310
mediated by how much we thought they existed or didn't exist.
1652
01:28:49.949 --> 01:28:54.439
Which is just like a mind-bending thing. And you know,
1653
01:28:54.600 --> 01:29:00.279
you look at sort of the involvement of not only
1654
01:29:00.340 --> 01:29:04.869
just government agencies, but the military specifically in different film productions.
1655
01:29:04.949 --> 01:29:06.729
And you kind of go, well, maybe all this sort
1656
01:29:06.750 --> 01:29:09.369
of like, oh, we can beat the aliens. Propaganda is
1657
01:29:09.489 --> 01:29:11.109
keeping the invasion at bay.
1658
01:29:11.609 --> 01:29:12.649
I don't, I don't know.
1659
01:29:12.670 --> 01:29:14.609
You know, that's something that I think deserves a little
1660
01:29:14.630 --> 01:29:16.750
bit more consideration is like, what if they're actually, we
1661
01:29:17.810 --> 01:29:21.300
have been conditioned to assume that they are hiding secrets
1662
01:29:21.359 --> 01:29:24.520
that we need released, but do we need them released?
1663
01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:26.579
And as you said, like as far as, you know,
1664
01:29:26.659 --> 01:29:29.979
if everybody should have access to this, I mean, if
1665
01:29:30.060 --> 01:29:34.520
this is part of that sort of, uh, shamanic tradition
1666
01:29:34.939 --> 01:29:40.229
that a lot of cultures have slash had, um, that
1667
01:29:40.310 --> 01:29:42.729
role wasn't for everybody, you know? I mean, like you
1668
01:29:42.750 --> 01:29:45.210
had to, you had to go through, you had to
1669
01:29:45.250 --> 01:29:48.609
go through the ish, you know, to get to that point. Um,
1670
01:29:48.770 --> 01:29:51.220
and heavy lies the crown in that regard. And so
1671
01:29:51.260 --> 01:29:55.899
the idea that everyone has the, um, ability or character
1672
01:29:56.050 --> 01:29:59.550
to undergo that sort of an experience, I'm not really sure.
1673
01:29:59.750 --> 01:30:03.550
I think that an awareness of that and a communion,
1674
01:30:03.989 --> 01:30:08.109
to use a Strieberian term, with that other realm, another space,
1675
01:30:08.210 --> 01:30:11.510
is a human birthright, but I'm not entirely sure that
1676
01:30:12.130 --> 01:30:16.409
we should all be interfacing with it on a day-to-day basis.
1677
01:30:17.470 --> 01:30:22.369
It seems like whatever the phenomena is, it's at least...
1678
01:30:23.189 --> 01:30:27.430
a few steps ahead of our understanding of things, and
1679
01:30:27.470 --> 01:30:30.670
it presents itself that way. Like you were saying, the
1680
01:30:30.850 --> 01:30:34.479
airships to the UFOs, now we have these drones, but
1681
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:40.199
the level of technology that it displays whenever it presents
1682
01:30:40.260 --> 01:30:43.340
itself seems to be still a little bit ahead of
1683
01:30:44.020 --> 01:30:47.939
at least what the public sector of people are aware of.
1684
01:30:48.659 --> 01:30:51.020
But it is interesting, and that makes me think, it's
1685
01:30:51.140 --> 01:30:55.340
something that's supposed to be beyond our understanding. And that's
1686
01:30:55.380 --> 01:30:58.539
where it gets to the synchromysticism. Maybe it is some
1687
01:30:58.600 --> 01:31:02.619
sort of force guiding us, some sort of grand intelligence.
1688
01:31:02.659 --> 01:31:07.460
And I really find it intriguing, the storytelling aspect of this,
1689
01:31:07.539 --> 01:31:13.369
because I've had plenty of experiences with synchronicities and experiences
1690
01:31:13.710 --> 01:31:16.829
through altered states and things that would happen between that
1691
01:31:16.850 --> 01:31:20.960
would guide me to a different understanding or something new
1692
01:31:21.039 --> 01:31:23.659
that I'm exploring in my life, but it would be
1693
01:31:23.729 --> 01:31:26.109
like it was guiding me and telling me a story
1694
01:31:26.289 --> 01:31:29.470
and leading me in a certain direction so that I
1695
01:31:29.510 --> 01:31:31.949
would be in my own story in a way. Does
1696
01:31:31.970 --> 01:31:32.529
that make sense?
1697
01:31:33.869 --> 01:31:38.579
No, it makes perfect sense. And, you know, what this
1698
01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:40.439
is is sort of in the eye of the beholder.
1699
01:31:40.479 --> 01:31:42.859
It does seem to push us forward, and whether or
1700
01:31:42.899 --> 01:31:44.699
not you think of that as a spiritual thing or
1701
01:31:44.720 --> 01:31:47.520
you think in more materialist terms of it being evolution,
1702
01:31:47.619 --> 01:31:49.930
you know, that that's it's in the eye of the
1703
01:31:49.970 --> 01:31:52.930
beholder um a lot of people have talked about like
1704
01:31:52.970 --> 01:31:54.350
you know one of the ideas one of my favorite
1705
01:31:54.390 --> 01:31:57.710
ideas um that jeff kreipel has talked about is this
1706
01:31:57.810 --> 01:32:01.939
idea that the phenomenon is what the evolutionary process looks
1707
01:32:02.020 --> 01:32:06.560
like to a sentient being um now i don't know
1708
01:32:06.880 --> 01:32:09.899
you know i i i think that um and i've
1709
01:32:09.920 --> 01:32:11.720
talked with with jeff about this like i think that
1710
01:32:11.840 --> 01:32:15.569
sometimes that's uh That's just swapping out God or something.
1711
01:32:15.970 --> 01:32:17.550
We use the word evolution. We just kind of swap
1712
01:32:17.569 --> 01:32:21.630
that out for spiritual forces. But I do think that
1713
01:32:21.670 --> 01:32:24.050
there's something important about story, as you alluded to. And
1714
01:32:24.529 --> 01:32:26.189
one of the ideas that has been proposed is that
1715
01:32:26.869 --> 01:32:30.689
one of the reasons that stories seem so central to
1716
01:32:31.449 --> 01:32:33.970
our human experience is that they are sort of like
1717
01:32:34.090 --> 01:32:36.630
evolutionary data packets, right? Like you can have, you can
1718
01:32:36.649 --> 01:32:39.750
get the experience without doing the thing and without all
1719
01:32:39.770 --> 01:32:42.189
the trial and error, here's a story and you can
1720
01:32:42.229 --> 01:32:44.619
sort of, it's sort of serve as a mnemonic device. Like,
1721
01:32:44.640 --> 01:32:47.079
look at, look at Bob, he did the wrong thing.
1722
01:32:47.319 --> 01:32:49.579
And here's an entertaining story around that, that sort of
1723
01:32:49.619 --> 01:32:52.579
helps you to remember that. And yeah, this is one
1724
01:32:52.600 --> 01:32:54.699
of the central sort of questions that I, I had
1725
01:32:54.840 --> 01:32:57.760
wrestled with in fourth wall phantoms because I, As people
1726
01:32:57.779 --> 01:33:00.159
can probably tell, it starts out as quaint stories about
1727
01:33:00.300 --> 01:33:02.539
fictional characters entering our reality, and then you start to
1728
01:33:02.819 --> 01:33:07.260
have to address the bigger questions. And one of those
1729
01:33:07.279 --> 01:33:12.659
things is, do our lives look like stories because it's
1730
01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:15.319
a projection of ourselves? Are we projecting that, or is
1731
01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:19.510
it life imitating art, or does art imitate life? I
1732
01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:22.090
really don't know, but I think that the boundary between
1733
01:33:22.189 --> 01:33:25.810
art and life is probably a lot thinner than we
1734
01:33:26.210 --> 01:33:26.720
believe it is.
1735
01:33:27.779 --> 01:33:31.260
You mentioned our belief in these things and how that
1736
01:33:31.359 --> 01:33:34.579
can affect our experience or even if we will ever
1737
01:33:34.699 --> 01:33:37.920
have experience. How much do you think this is a
1738
01:33:39.359 --> 01:33:45.750
determining factor of having paranormal phenomena or being contacted by
1739
01:33:45.909 --> 01:33:50.649
some otherworldly intelligence? Does belief play a factor into that
1740
01:33:50.710 --> 01:33:53.050
where if you don't believe in it, you probably will
1741
01:33:53.090 --> 01:33:54.850
never have any type of experience?
1742
01:33:56.430 --> 01:33:59.130
Yeah, I mean, it's like from a Hallmark card, right?
1743
01:33:59.430 --> 01:34:03.180
Seeing isn't believing, believing is seeing, but it really, I
1744
01:34:03.640 --> 01:34:05.479
think that there is something to that, or at least
1745
01:34:06.260 --> 01:34:13.520
giving this other aspect of reality space to breathe, space
1746
01:34:13.560 --> 01:34:16.960
to exist, space to reach out to you. So the
1747
01:34:17.000 --> 01:34:18.439
title of the book, this is a pretty good way
1748
01:34:18.460 --> 01:34:20.800
of illustrating what I mean, the title of the book
1749
01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:25.319
is Fourth Wall Phantoms, and That's a reference to, in theater,
1750
01:34:25.359 --> 01:34:27.920
the fourth wall that exists between the characters and the audience.
1751
01:34:28.470 --> 01:34:31.149
Imagine a theater with the back and the sides and
1752
01:34:31.170 --> 01:34:34.970
the fourth wall. And so breaking the fourth wall is
1753
01:34:35.010 --> 01:34:37.890
whenever a character acknowledges the audience or acknowledges the fact
1754
01:34:37.949 --> 01:34:41.489
that they are in a play or a novel or
1755
01:34:41.529 --> 01:34:46.739
a movie. And this is super common nowadays. The actual
1756
01:34:46.819 --> 01:34:52.760
term that... that narratologists use, people who study narrative, is
1757
01:34:52.899 --> 01:34:56.479
not the fourth wall. They use the term metalepsis. And
1758
01:34:56.960 --> 01:35:00.010
metalepsis is important because fourth wall, generally, you think of
1759
01:35:00.060 --> 01:35:04.310
that as being character to audience, but metalepsis encompasses a
1760
01:35:04.430 --> 01:35:10.670
broader variety of hierarchy transcending actions. What I mean by
1761
01:35:10.710 --> 01:35:16.560
that is narrators acknowledging characters, characters acknowledging narrators, so top-down
1762
01:35:16.600 --> 01:35:21.220
and bottom-up. characters acknowledging the audience. Um, you know, if
1763
01:35:21.260 --> 01:35:23.920
you have, um, I think, wasn't it black mirror that
1764
01:35:23.960 --> 01:35:26.479
did like a choose your own adventure style Netflix show,
1765
01:35:26.939 --> 01:35:29.100
that would be a form of metal abscess because you
1766
01:35:29.159 --> 01:35:31.779
are affecting the media as you watch it. Um, and
1767
01:35:31.819 --> 01:35:34.699
even crossover events could be considered a type of metal abscess.
1768
01:35:34.729 --> 01:35:37.590
So a lot of scholarship on this, a lot of
1769
01:35:37.649 --> 01:35:41.949
academic narratologist scholarship books upon books upon books of essays
1770
01:35:41.989 --> 01:35:44.489
talking about this concept of metal abscess of breaking the
1771
01:35:44.510 --> 01:35:49.300
fourth wall. But, um, I think that this idea of
1772
01:35:49.340 --> 01:35:53.239
breaking the fourth wall and metalepsis goes far beyond this
1773
01:35:53.319 --> 01:35:57.470
idea of fictional characters entering our reality. I think that
1774
01:35:57.489 --> 01:36:01.729
it's also one of the most potent metaphors for looking
1775
01:36:01.850 --> 01:36:04.069
at the paranormal and how we interact with that. And
1776
01:36:04.090 --> 01:36:06.270
this is where I get to answering your question finally
1777
01:36:06.310 --> 01:36:12.130
about belief. John Keel discussed in his work this idea
1778
01:36:12.350 --> 01:36:14.710
of what he called the reflective factor. And what he
1779
01:36:14.750 --> 01:36:16.449
meant by that was something you've probably heard in a
1780
01:36:16.489 --> 01:36:19.720
lot of other contexts. If you look at the phenomenon,
1781
01:36:19.760 --> 01:36:22.779
the phenomenon looks back at you. Meaning that once you
1782
01:36:22.800 --> 01:36:28.319
start giving it space, entertaining this possible existence, and sort
1783
01:36:28.359 --> 01:36:30.119
of looking into it, becoming a little bit more interested
1784
01:36:30.159 --> 01:36:33.750
in it, that's when strange things start happening to you.
1785
01:36:33.890 --> 01:36:37.930
And you literally sort of draw these things into your life.
1786
01:36:37.949 --> 01:36:42.250
You get on their radar. Or as the John Keel
1787
01:36:42.289 --> 01:36:47.130
stand-in says in the Mothman Prophecies adaptation, Um, you notice
1788
01:36:47.149 --> 01:36:48.829
them and they notice that you notice them, you know,
1789
01:36:48.850 --> 01:36:52.939
that sort of thing. Um, and that to me is,
1790
01:36:53.319 --> 01:36:57.659
is metalepsis, right? It's, it's the character acknowledging a reality
1791
01:36:57.720 --> 01:37:00.300
beyond the frames of the, of the art in which
1792
01:37:00.359 --> 01:37:03.520
they're entrapped, right? It's, it is that transgression. It is
1793
01:37:03.560 --> 01:37:07.810
that breaking of boundaries, which now is the, that's, that's
1794
01:37:07.829 --> 01:37:09.869
the trickster, right? That's the, that's what the trickster does,
1795
01:37:09.909 --> 01:37:14.489
which is so associated with, um, supernatural phenomenon. Um, It's also,
1796
01:37:14.510 --> 01:37:17.390
you know, if you read metalepsis scholarship, metalepsis for characters
1797
01:37:17.529 --> 01:37:21.899
often induces madness or humor or terror. You know, the
1798
01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:24.399
same things that we associate with the paranormal. And I
1799
01:37:24.439 --> 01:37:28.199
think that that's a really important concept for, even if
1800
01:37:28.239 --> 01:37:30.890
it's not literally true and we're not literally in a
1801
01:37:30.949 --> 01:37:35.829
novel or something, that idea of breaking through this sort
1802
01:37:35.869 --> 01:37:40.500
of hierarchy, these different strata of of existence, I think
1803
01:37:40.539 --> 01:37:44.060
is really important when considering the paranormal. One final thing
1804
01:37:44.100 --> 01:37:46.420
to sort of drive this home, and when I saw this,
1805
01:37:46.439 --> 01:37:48.640
I was like, okay, there is definitely something to this idea.
1806
01:37:49.479 --> 01:37:52.279
One of the earliest examples of metalepsis can be found
1807
01:37:52.359 --> 01:37:54.979
on Greek urns. So if you can picture that in
1808
01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:57.140
your mind, you've got a Greek urn, and almost all
1809
01:37:57.159 --> 01:38:02.850
the characters, without exception, are presented in profile. So they're not,
1810
01:38:03.170 --> 01:38:05.829
if you're looking at the urn, the character is not
1811
01:38:05.869 --> 01:38:09.550
looking back at you. There are exceptions, though, and those
1812
01:38:09.619 --> 01:38:15.729
exceptions on Greek urns are monsters, the dead, people who
1813
01:38:15.770 --> 01:38:18.909
are asleep, people who are in altered states of consciousness,
1814
01:38:19.449 --> 01:38:21.750
and gods and goddesses. Those are the characters who on
1815
01:38:21.770 --> 01:38:24.930
the Greek urns are facing the viewer. They are the
1816
01:38:25.010 --> 01:38:28.369
ones who are breaking the fourth wall. Monsters, dead, sleepers,
1817
01:38:28.489 --> 01:38:32.699
altered states of consciousness, deities. That's the paranormal. That's the
1818
01:38:32.760 --> 01:38:36.220
entire gamut of the paranormal. And it seems like the
1819
01:38:36.260 --> 01:38:37.199
Greeks understood that.
1820
01:38:37.960 --> 01:38:41.539
I heard you recently on a podcast making a comparison
1821
01:38:42.420 --> 01:38:46.859
of the way this phenomenon can present itself, whether it's
1822
01:38:46.899 --> 01:38:51.060
a UFO or humanoid or any other type of high strangeness.
1823
01:38:51.619 --> 01:38:55.010
At times there seems to be this element of it
1824
01:38:55.090 --> 01:38:59.810
missing something or getting the interpretation wrong. And you made
1825
01:38:59.829 --> 01:39:04.390
the comparison to our modern AI, how it is evolving
1826
01:39:04.489 --> 01:39:07.390
very rapidly. But remember a couple of years ago, you'd
1827
01:39:07.430 --> 01:39:10.229
get this spaghetti fingers and all kinds of crazy things
1828
01:39:10.250 --> 01:39:12.949
coming out of it. Now it's much better. and it
1829
01:39:13.010 --> 01:39:16.760
continues to get better. This is very creepy to me.
1830
01:39:16.770 --> 01:39:21.979
It also kind of aligns with people's thoughts on simulation theory,
1831
01:39:22.539 --> 01:39:27.500
the possibility that this reality is holographic in nature. What
1832
01:39:27.539 --> 01:39:32.869
are your thoughts on those aspects that it presents itself
1833
01:39:32.930 --> 01:39:36.310
in that way, and it's like trying to learn AI algorithms?
1834
01:39:38.189 --> 01:39:43.250
Yeah, or that especially chilling observation that our aversion to
1835
01:39:43.270 --> 01:39:46.510
the uncanny valley suggests that we have an evolutionary need
1836
01:39:46.569 --> 01:39:50.170
to recognize things that aren't quite human, like that same,
1837
01:39:50.189 --> 01:39:52.050
same sort of idea. I mean, yeah, this is something
1838
01:39:52.090 --> 01:39:55.800
that you see across a variety of traditions. Um, you know, the, uh,
1839
01:39:56.359 --> 01:39:58.680
the defects of the fairies, it was said, you know,
1840
01:39:58.699 --> 01:40:00.380
they would have something about them that would be just
1841
01:40:00.420 --> 01:40:03.539
slightly off, or sometimes the gin would be perfect except
1842
01:40:03.560 --> 01:40:07.409
for their feet in Islamic tradition. Or, um, I would
1843
01:40:07.470 --> 01:40:10.609
argue some Bigfoot sightings. That's how you get three-toed tracks, right?
1844
01:40:10.810 --> 01:40:14.380
Everything looks like Bigfoot except for those feet. It wasn't
1845
01:40:14.399 --> 01:40:16.539
my idea who made the comparison to the AI models,
1846
01:40:17.119 --> 01:40:18.579
but I think it was Tim Renner who was the
1847
01:40:18.600 --> 01:40:19.779
first person I heard it, and then I heard it
1848
01:40:19.979 --> 01:40:23.239
somewhere else in some comments. But I think there's something
1849
01:40:23.279 --> 01:40:27.779
to it. I personally, and I'm not necessarily asking anybody
1850
01:40:27.850 --> 01:40:30.510
else to sort of come with me on this, but
1851
01:40:30.590 --> 01:40:33.109
I personally have always just sort of had a distaste
1852
01:40:33.210 --> 01:40:37.069
for the simulation theory as a... as a metaphor for
1853
01:40:37.109 --> 01:40:39.609
what's going on, totally fine with it. And there are
1854
01:40:39.630 --> 01:40:42.050
a lot of ancient antecedents for it.
1855
01:40:42.090 --> 01:40:42.310
Right.
1856
01:40:42.930 --> 01:40:46.069
But if we're viewing it like through the, but the
1857
01:40:46.109 --> 01:40:50.020
way I hear about it most often is, is very literalist. Um, like, Oh,
1858
01:40:50.060 --> 01:40:53.180
we're in a computer program and the programmers are messing
1859
01:40:53.220 --> 01:40:56.720
with us. And there's this implication that when we die,
1860
01:40:56.779 --> 01:41:00.800
like we, we unplug and this reality that is, uh,
1861
01:41:02.220 --> 01:41:07.500
nestled above ours somehow resembles the, motivations and the techniques
1862
01:41:07.560 --> 01:41:09.359
and the technology that we have down here. And I
1863
01:41:09.399 --> 01:41:11.939
just don't think that that seems like a bit of
1864
01:41:11.979 --> 01:41:14.520
faulty logic. It really does seem to me to be
1865
01:41:14.579 --> 01:41:17.239
part of this tradition that we've always seen the paranormal,
1866
01:41:17.260 --> 01:41:20.560
which is as soon as we have, um, some bit
1867
01:41:20.579 --> 01:41:22.899
of new technology, we're like, Oh, that must be what
1868
01:41:22.939 --> 01:41:27.199
the supernatural is every time, you know, radio waves, television,
1869
01:41:27.779 --> 01:41:30.699
computer games, and, you know, and, and simulations now. Um,
1870
01:41:31.619 --> 01:41:33.739
so I think just maintaining an awareness of that and
1871
01:41:33.789 --> 01:41:36.899
not treating it as literally, um, Um, but I think
1872
01:41:37.319 --> 01:41:42.930
at its core, like, yes, illusion, um, perception is not reality. Um,
1873
01:41:44.149 --> 01:41:45.890
things like that. I mean, I think that the psychedelic
1874
01:41:45.930 --> 01:41:48.149
experience shows you that yes, you can tune into a
1875
01:41:48.189 --> 01:41:52.039
different channel. Um, and I think that, you know, using that, those,
1876
01:41:52.279 --> 01:41:54.619
those media metaphors are really useful in that, in that way.
1877
01:41:55.039 --> 01:41:58.619
My other sort of, uh, my other sort of, uh,
1878
01:41:58.699 --> 01:42:02.920
rejection of simulation theory is is a little bit more
1879
01:42:03.000 --> 01:42:05.159
personal and a little bit more of a moral objection
1880
01:42:05.199 --> 01:42:07.920
i suppose but it's just i don't see in that
1881
01:42:07.979 --> 01:42:11.699
model um i don't see an opportunity for transcendence right
1882
01:42:11.739 --> 01:42:15.659
like there's not a way to get out of it
1883
01:42:16.319 --> 01:42:18.739
like you're always trapped in the matrix and then you
1884
01:42:18.779 --> 01:42:20.520
know what happens when you go to that next reality
1885
01:42:20.579 --> 01:42:23.979
do they have simulationist theorists up there saying oh no
1886
01:42:24.050 --> 01:42:26.149
this one but you know it's it's like how there's
1887
01:42:26.159 --> 01:42:29.229
baseline you know is it Is it turtles all the
1888
01:42:29.270 --> 01:42:31.180
way down? You know, is it a rushing nesting doll?
1889
01:42:31.279 --> 01:42:33.659
So I just, I'm not sure, I'm not convinced of
1890
01:42:33.699 --> 01:42:37.699
the utility of that. And honestly, like, I just have
1891
01:42:37.720 --> 01:42:39.779
to proceed in my life as if that's not the case.
1892
01:42:40.180 --> 01:42:43.420
That and the fact that, you know, I think that
1893
01:42:43.479 --> 01:42:45.649
if you embrace those concepts a little bit too much,
1894
01:42:46.090 --> 01:42:49.810
you might get led into buying some sort of version
1895
01:42:49.850 --> 01:42:55.869
of a techno-technocratic utopia sort of thing. And that just
1896
01:42:56.050 --> 01:42:59.050
doesn't really sit well with me either. So, yeah, I
1897
01:42:59.090 --> 01:43:01.710
have my sort of own personal objections to it. But
1898
01:43:02.130 --> 01:43:03.930
as far as a metaphor, I think it's probably more
1899
01:43:04.010 --> 01:43:04.770
accurate than it's not.
1900
01:43:04.850 --> 01:43:06.829
I'm right there with you. I think I'd like to
1901
01:43:06.890 --> 01:43:10.229
view it more as a metaphor than anything. I think
1902
01:43:10.310 --> 01:43:13.229
that the more we start to understand about the nature
1903
01:43:13.250 --> 01:43:16.489
of reality, the further we'll get away from that. But
1904
01:43:16.829 --> 01:43:19.130
it is a good comparison for now.
1905
01:43:20.010 --> 01:43:22.590
Sorry, one more thing. I mean, it's also predicated on
1906
01:43:22.609 --> 01:43:25.189
just like what we think technology is, right? And, you know,
1907
01:43:25.449 --> 01:43:26.689
a case that I've been trying to make for a
1908
01:43:26.729 --> 01:43:31.010
while is that like, psychedelics are technology you know ayahuasca
1909
01:43:31.090 --> 01:43:33.600
is technology we just think we have our condition to
1910
01:43:33.609 --> 01:43:36.539
think of technology as metal and silica and electricity and
1911
01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:39.119
all this stuff but if you think of technology as
1912
01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:43.199
being something that can sort of induce an effect in
1913
01:43:43.260 --> 01:43:46.859
general then again yes that that becomes much more sensible
1914
01:43:46.899 --> 01:43:48.560
to me in the sense that like okay reality might
1915
01:43:48.600 --> 01:43:50.789
not be a simulation but it is a dream like
1916
01:43:51.010 --> 01:43:53.989
i'm okay with that sorry that's great put a little
1917
01:43:54.250 --> 01:43:55.409
cherry on the top of that yeah.
1918
01:43:56.100 --> 01:43:59.930
So I heard you also mention in a recent interview
1919
01:44:00.090 --> 01:44:05.210
about how the phenomena seems to be photo and video divergent.
1920
01:44:05.369 --> 01:44:09.090
There is very rare cases where you can catch anything,
1921
01:44:09.310 --> 01:44:13.680
at least anything clear on photo or camera. And it
1922
01:44:13.760 --> 01:44:18.420
seems to have an effect on electronics and be aware
1923
01:44:18.520 --> 01:44:20.390
of when someone is trying to capture it.
1924
01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:28.739
Yeah, it's that sort of... It's the level of omnipotence
1925
01:44:28.779 --> 01:44:32.180
that you have to, that you often end up ascribing
1926
01:44:32.260 --> 01:44:34.380
things like the UFO phenomenon just to be able to
1927
01:44:34.460 --> 01:44:36.739
explain some of the things that it does. And I
1928
01:44:36.779 --> 01:44:39.140
know that to people who are physicalists or materialists, that
1929
01:44:39.180 --> 01:44:42.699
sounds a bit superstitious, but there's nothing really to say
1930
01:44:42.720 --> 01:44:47.359
that that's not what's going on. You know, a friend
1931
01:44:47.399 --> 01:44:49.260
of mine, Tobe Johnson, I believe he was the first
1932
01:44:49.300 --> 01:44:51.619
one to say this, although Tim Renner, my friend and co-author,
1933
01:44:51.649 --> 01:44:53.810
has since picked it up, but It's almost like we
1934
01:44:53.850 --> 01:44:58.149
have permission to get audio of these things and not
1935
01:44:58.250 --> 01:45:02.760
visual evidence. And I'm not saying that there aren't authentic
1936
01:45:03.380 --> 01:45:07.199
videos or photographs. I am saying that I think that
1937
01:45:07.659 --> 01:45:12.300
they're always sort of ambiguous. And it's getting even harder
1938
01:45:12.500 --> 01:45:17.840
day by day, like wading through the artificially generated images
1939
01:45:18.640 --> 01:45:21.329
to figure out what's what. And I'm also saying that
1940
01:45:21.350 --> 01:45:25.550
I've always found some of this auditory evidence more compelling. But,
1941
01:45:27.229 --> 01:45:32.250
you know, I'm not sure if there's ever going to
1942
01:45:32.289 --> 01:45:35.149
be a video or a photograph that's going to sort
1943
01:45:35.170 --> 01:45:40.310
of convince us that this stuff is real. And that
1944
01:45:40.329 --> 01:45:42.529
might be the point, you know? Again, we've been talking,
1945
01:45:42.550 --> 01:45:45.449
a theme running through our conversation today has been like,
1946
01:45:45.789 --> 01:45:47.229
how much of this is personal and how much of
1947
01:45:47.270 --> 01:45:50.619
this is for the masses? A sighting with your eyeballs,
1948
01:45:50.680 --> 01:45:52.779
that's personal. And then a photograph that you can share
1949
01:45:52.800 --> 01:45:54.720
to everybody and be like, look, I'm right. Look at
1950
01:45:54.760 --> 01:45:57.680
how awesome my sighting was. That's for the group. So
1951
01:45:57.699 --> 01:45:59.539
I think that there might be sort of an individualist
1952
01:45:59.560 --> 01:46:02.779
strain through this. I do find it interesting, too, that
1953
01:46:03.300 --> 01:46:06.439
most of the occultists that I've talked to, the ones
1954
01:46:06.460 --> 01:46:09.729
who are honest about the results of their rituals and
1955
01:46:09.739 --> 01:46:12.050
their practices, right? The ones who are honest about that
1956
01:46:12.810 --> 01:46:15.909
and who have claimed to have spirit contact tell me
1957
01:46:16.010 --> 01:46:20.630
that the visual stuff is very rare. The auditory stuff,
1958
01:46:21.350 --> 01:46:23.869
a lot more common. And I'm not saying the visual
1959
01:46:23.890 --> 01:46:26.970
stuff doesn't happen, but the visual stuff is rarer than
1960
01:46:27.510 --> 01:46:29.770
the audio stuff. So I think there might be something
1961
01:46:29.789 --> 01:46:30.529
to that as well.
1962
01:46:31.449 --> 01:46:34.520
How much would you say that there is an actual
1963
01:46:35.260 --> 01:46:39.960
danger in dabbling things like occult practices and rituals where
1964
01:46:39.979 --> 01:46:43.739
you're attempting to contact these things and work with them?
1965
01:46:44.350 --> 01:46:47.270
I know earlier we were discussing about the aspect of
1966
01:46:47.390 --> 01:46:50.640
wearing masks, that they can present themselves as different things,
1967
01:46:50.770 --> 01:46:55.000
often as trickster beings that may not have your best
1968
01:46:55.060 --> 01:46:57.399
interests in mind and may just want to get something
1969
01:46:57.600 --> 01:46:59.649
out of you. Would you say that there's a danger
1970
01:46:59.710 --> 01:47:00.989
in dabbling with those things?
1971
01:47:02.489 --> 01:47:04.930
I mean, I think there is inherently, right? I mean, so,
1972
01:47:04.949 --> 01:47:07.789
you know, I am a Christian, even though I'm a
1973
01:47:07.850 --> 01:47:09.630
weirdo Christian, and a lot of the things I say
1974
01:47:09.670 --> 01:47:13.109
would get me excommunicated from some of those circles. But
1975
01:47:13.609 --> 01:47:15.630
I am a Christian, and if for no other reason
1976
01:47:15.670 --> 01:47:19.420
than I do really strongly resonate with Dr. Jack Hunter's
1977
01:47:19.600 --> 01:47:27.680
assessment that the religion is the domesticated paranormal, right? And
1978
01:47:27.960 --> 01:47:31.079
the paranormal itself is like the wild, untamed version of that.
1979
01:47:31.750 --> 01:47:34.470
And so with that in mind, like, yeah, I mean,
1980
01:47:34.489 --> 01:47:37.590
there's a difference in, in playing with dogs and playing
1981
01:47:37.609 --> 01:47:40.010
with wolves, you know? And if you're going to be
1982
01:47:40.050 --> 01:47:42.439
a lion tamer, like an occultist, like you've got to
1983
01:47:42.479 --> 01:47:45.479
really have your protocols, um, in order or else you
1984
01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:51.619
wind up like Siegfried and Roy, you know, or, uh, or, or, uh, uh,
1985
01:47:51.659 --> 01:47:53.859
Tiger King, you know, one of those things like that's,
1986
01:47:53.880 --> 01:47:56.279
that's what you wind up doing. So like, yeah, you like, and,
1987
01:47:56.359 --> 01:47:57.979
and so I think it's, it's, it's like a lot
1988
01:47:58.000 --> 01:48:00.460
of things in life. Like there's, You can do it
1989
01:48:00.520 --> 01:48:03.500
safely or you can do it recklessly. The problem is
1990
01:48:03.539 --> 01:48:06.520
that doing it safely, I think, is probably a lot
1991
01:48:06.560 --> 01:48:09.609
slower and a lot of times has smaller results than
1992
01:48:09.649 --> 01:48:12.750
doing it recklessly, which is the alchemist's tale, right? It's
1993
01:48:13.369 --> 01:48:15.270
the idea of the dry way versus the wet way.
1994
01:48:15.329 --> 01:48:17.430
The dry way is fast and you get great results,
1995
01:48:17.470 --> 01:48:20.039
but you might blow yourself up. And the wet way...
1996
01:48:20.180 --> 01:48:24.640
is slow and steady and methodical. So yeah, I think
1997
01:48:24.659 --> 01:48:27.140
that there's something that could keep it considered. You know,
1998
01:48:27.260 --> 01:48:29.819
I know enough about occultism to be dangerous and to
1999
01:48:29.899 --> 01:48:32.810
mostly be dangerous to myself. So, you know, I think
2000
01:48:32.850 --> 01:48:35.689
that buyer beware and keep your eyes open. I do
2001
01:48:35.789 --> 01:48:39.890
think that regardless of what your personal spiritual journey is,
2002
01:48:39.930 --> 01:48:42.130
there is a great amount of utility in being aware
2003
01:48:42.170 --> 01:48:45.470
of what occultism looks like and just sort of the
2004
01:48:45.550 --> 01:48:48.020
trends that you see in that. Now, you know, whether
2005
01:48:48.029 --> 01:48:49.899
or not that's because you want to be able to
2006
01:48:49.960 --> 01:48:51.800
identify it and stay away from it, I know plenty
2007
01:48:51.819 --> 01:48:54.000
of people who are that way, or if you want
2008
01:48:54.020 --> 01:48:56.420
to just be able to see the occult side of things,
2009
01:48:56.479 --> 01:48:58.939
and there is an occult side to everything, like, you know,
2010
01:49:00.020 --> 01:49:03.359
serial and chiropractic, like there's always an occult side to
2011
01:49:03.510 --> 01:49:07.140
everything in your life, right? Either way, I think just
2012
01:49:07.180 --> 01:49:09.960
being aware of these things is better than not being
2013
01:49:09.979 --> 01:49:10.460
aware of them.
2014
01:49:11.119 --> 01:49:13.310
I had a guest on the other day, and he
2015
01:49:13.350 --> 01:49:21.210
was discussing his understanding of the different types of paranormal intelligences,
2016
01:49:21.250 --> 01:49:24.090
for lack of a better word. And we started talking
2017
01:49:24.170 --> 01:49:28.890
about fairies and cryptid beings, such as dogmen and werewolves.
2018
01:49:29.350 --> 01:49:34.210
And he believes that these type of cryptid beings are...
2019
01:49:34.789 --> 01:49:38.880
sort of stewards of the land that at times if
2020
01:49:38.979 --> 01:49:42.420
we infringe too much on their territory, they will present
2021
01:49:42.500 --> 01:49:46.460
themselves to us. He said something interesting that they take
2022
01:49:46.500 --> 01:49:48.539
care of the land and they can work with us
2023
01:49:48.619 --> 01:49:52.390
in certain ways, but they'll also become very angry at
2024
01:49:52.449 --> 01:49:56.409
us if we disrespect the land or the other beings
2025
01:49:56.489 --> 01:50:00.829
or things like that. But they are an essential part
2026
01:50:01.189 --> 01:50:03.920
of our reality, of our material reality.
2027
01:50:06.560 --> 01:50:09.800
I resonate strongly with that idea. I think one of
2028
01:50:09.819 --> 01:50:12.899
the things that, again, does tie into the sort of
2029
01:50:13.020 --> 01:50:15.960
main thesis of Fourth Wall Phantoms, one of the things
2030
01:50:15.979 --> 01:50:21.689
that's important to remember is this idea that things on
2031
01:50:21.729 --> 01:50:25.369
the other side of the veil, this other side of
2032
01:50:25.390 --> 01:50:28.850
this reality, really do seem to be able to adapt
2033
01:50:28.890 --> 01:50:31.310
and evolve and change over time. The example that I
2034
01:50:31.329 --> 01:50:36.380
always point to is former Sorbonne medievalist Claude Lécouteau, who
2035
01:50:36.420 --> 01:50:42.840
talks about the fact that oftentimes in rural societies or
2036
01:50:43.359 --> 01:50:47.920
ancient cultures or indigenous cultures, someone who is well-respected by
2037
01:50:47.939 --> 01:50:50.859
the community might die. This could be a shaman, it
2038
01:50:50.899 --> 01:50:55.560
could be a medicine woman, it could be a warrior
2039
01:50:55.739 --> 01:50:57.659
or a ruler, but they would die and they would
2040
01:50:57.680 --> 01:50:59.479
be buried at some place, and that would be sort
2041
01:50:59.500 --> 01:51:02.880
of a site of pilgrimage to honor their memory. But
2042
01:51:03.460 --> 01:51:09.739
as the generations go on, stories about them change, their
2043
01:51:09.899 --> 01:51:14.380
memories of them change, their deeds get amplified, and what
2044
01:51:14.399 --> 01:51:16.180
you wind up with is something that is more of
2045
01:51:16.199 --> 01:51:19.819
a folk hero or heroine. And then over time, that
2046
01:51:19.859 --> 01:51:22.470
memory fades too, and you wind up with a spirit
2047
01:51:22.510 --> 01:51:24.210
of the land, a spirit of the place, a genus
2048
01:51:24.250 --> 01:51:26.949
loci sort of situation. And I think that that might
2049
01:51:26.970 --> 01:51:29.710
be something that is going on there, and that really
2050
01:51:29.750 --> 01:51:33.600
does sort of emphasize the fact that I have a
2051
01:51:33.619 --> 01:51:35.979
certain degree of agnosticism as to whether or not, how
2052
01:51:36.039 --> 01:51:39.420
literal is that, right? Like, is it people's memory being
2053
01:51:39.460 --> 01:51:42.060
faulty or does the actual thing on the other side
2054
01:51:42.649 --> 01:51:46.850
of the veil literally change as our expectations about it change?
2055
01:51:47.550 --> 01:51:51.750
You know, can a human being become an earth elemental?
2056
01:51:52.399 --> 01:51:55.539
Or can, you know, or can we think of cryptids
2057
01:51:56.079 --> 01:52:00.340
as genus loci or elementals? I'm not sure that we can't, um,
2058
01:52:00.439 --> 01:52:01.800
you know, if, if we are, if we do take
2059
01:52:01.819 --> 01:52:04.619
sort of a monist approach that everything is sort of
2060
01:52:04.680 --> 01:52:08.000
the same and everything is everything else. Um, and we
2061
01:52:08.140 --> 01:52:12.279
all are star stuff and we're all earth energy and, and,
2062
01:52:12.399 --> 01:52:15.699
and in life energy, then the idea that someone could
2063
01:52:15.739 --> 01:52:19.079
die and sort of could sort of become a tree spirit, uh,
2064
01:52:19.220 --> 01:52:22.100
or become a cryptid. I don't see any real, um,
2065
01:52:22.720 --> 01:52:26.079
I don't see any real discrepancy in thinking that way.
2066
01:52:26.979 --> 01:52:30.239
I wanted to get your thoughts on something that has
2067
01:52:30.390 --> 01:52:35.270
been surfacing recently as a consideration of what may be
2068
01:52:36.189 --> 01:52:41.340
behind this phenomena, and that is intelligent plasma. People cite
2069
01:52:41.439 --> 01:52:46.579
ball lightning and the energetic sources that we see in
2070
01:52:46.619 --> 01:52:51.300
the sky, these strange orbs. And it's theorized that this
2071
01:52:51.439 --> 01:52:55.279
may be some source of plasma that can manifest as
2072
01:52:55.359 --> 01:52:58.739
different things, as basically whatever it wants to present itself as.
2073
01:52:58.760 --> 01:52:59.699
What are your thoughts on that?
2074
01:53:01.720 --> 01:53:04.020
Kind of funny that you mentioned that. I'm working on
2075
01:53:05.100 --> 01:53:09.199
another book or encyclopedia. I'm not sure which it's going
2076
01:53:09.220 --> 01:53:12.649
to be with my good friend and editor, Barbara Fisher.
2077
01:53:12.859 --> 01:53:18.829
And Barbara has easily read more about the living lights.
2078
01:53:19.670 --> 01:53:21.850
um than anybody else on the planet i think at
2079
01:53:21.890 --> 01:53:24.989
this point um and some some certain trends are sort
2080
01:53:25.010 --> 01:53:28.729
of coming to to our awareness i i will say
2081
01:53:28.770 --> 01:53:31.899
that i think that there's something to that i think
2082
01:53:31.939 --> 01:53:38.079
that there's too many references to enlightenment our souls being
2083
01:53:38.140 --> 01:53:41.130
luminous our souls being conceived as balls of light i
2084
01:53:41.149 --> 01:53:43.609
think that there's just too much consistency across those things
2085
01:53:43.649 --> 01:53:47.250
i do think that these are lights that are alive
2086
01:53:47.289 --> 01:53:49.909
in some form or fashion. Um, are they living plasmas?
2087
01:53:50.869 --> 01:53:54.010
I think I'm leaning towards that direction. I also have
2088
01:53:54.090 --> 01:53:58.369
long held the suspicion that they're the most important thing
2089
01:53:58.470 --> 01:54:02.470
in the paranormal, which is kind of ironic that, um,
2090
01:54:02.630 --> 01:54:05.689
it's kind of ironic that we don't talk about them more,
2091
01:54:05.750 --> 01:54:07.470
but we don't talk about them more because they're, they're,
2092
01:54:07.590 --> 01:54:10.449
they're across everything. Like they're hard to talk about because
2093
01:54:10.909 --> 01:54:13.770
the lights appear in fairy stories and obviously in UFO
2094
01:54:13.789 --> 01:54:16.529
stories and encrypted stories and in ghost stories and like,
2095
01:54:16.949 --> 01:54:18.930
on and on and on, altered states of consciousness. Like,
2096
01:54:19.289 --> 01:54:21.130
you hear this all the time about these lights. So,
2097
01:54:21.750 --> 01:54:25.250
you know, I've suspected that, like, if you've ever played
2098
01:54:25.289 --> 01:54:27.810
a video game, especially on a PC, and, like, one
2099
01:54:27.850 --> 01:54:30.600
of the textures gets corrupted or missing, you know, you
2100
01:54:30.640 --> 01:54:32.359
might look at a wall that's supposed to be a
2101
01:54:32.380 --> 01:54:34.140
brick wall in a video game, but if the texture's
2102
01:54:34.180 --> 01:54:35.979
missing or something, you just get, like, a blank. You know,
2103
01:54:36.100 --> 01:54:38.220
you get a blank or you get a pink wall
2104
01:54:38.279 --> 01:54:40.659
or a black wall or something, or a white wall.
2105
01:54:41.819 --> 01:54:44.760
The texture's missing. And I think sometimes that might be
2106
01:54:45.399 --> 01:54:48.670
what we're seeing or noticing when we do see these
2107
01:54:48.989 --> 01:54:51.590
balls of light without all these other things that we're
2108
01:54:51.609 --> 01:54:54.189
interested in and attach to them. And that is sort
2109
01:54:54.210 --> 01:54:57.489
of like the base form of the paranormal, the unskinned
2110
01:54:57.949 --> 01:55:00.970
native form of the paranormal is the light. And then
2111
01:55:01.010 --> 01:55:04.399
of course, you know, light does seem to have an
2112
01:55:04.439 --> 01:55:09.050
effect on our production of things like melatonin and perhaps DMT, right? And,
2113
01:55:09.739 --> 01:55:13.210
and seeing this light, which oftentimes is said to have
2114
01:55:13.270 --> 01:55:16.609
some sort of strange quality, some sort of strange indescribable quality,
2115
01:55:16.949 --> 01:55:20.149
seeing that light does trigger an endogenous dump of DMT,
2116
01:55:20.210 --> 01:55:23.979
which then couples with our pre-existing expectations about what we're
2117
01:55:24.020 --> 01:55:26.239
going to see, be it a Bigfoot or an alien
2118
01:55:26.319 --> 01:55:29.180
or a ghost, and then that's what we end up seeing.
2119
01:55:30.000 --> 01:55:33.779
Doesn't mean that the intelligence behind that light isn't something
2120
01:55:33.899 --> 01:55:38.140
objectively real, but the costume that it wears, for lack
2121
01:55:38.159 --> 01:55:40.500
of a better term, might be more informed by our
2122
01:55:40.560 --> 01:55:43.239
own expectations and our own cultures than what we actually
2123
01:55:43.279 --> 01:55:45.859
have in front of us. And so for those reasons,
2124
01:55:45.920 --> 01:55:48.590
I think the lights deserve so much more attention than
2125
01:55:48.600 --> 01:55:49.210
they ever get.
2126
01:55:49.649 --> 01:55:52.649
Do you think that there's anything that we can point to,
2127
01:55:53.630 --> 01:55:59.489
any event or level of phenomena or experience that someone's
2128
01:55:59.550 --> 01:56:05.250
had that we can say that 100% we're communicating with
2129
01:56:05.689 --> 01:56:09.189
the spirit of someone's loved ones? Do you think that
2130
01:56:09.439 --> 01:56:13.670
it's possible that that as well could be just another
2131
01:56:14.529 --> 01:56:20.649
trickster intelligence playing on our emotions and because it has
2132
01:56:20.869 --> 01:56:25.149
access to our field of consciousness, has access to all
2133
01:56:25.210 --> 01:56:27.810
our memories and would know how to present itself as
2134
01:56:27.949 --> 01:56:32.220
grandma or some other relative? How do we know that
2135
01:56:32.260 --> 01:56:36.460
we're actually communicating with loved ones when we're doing this
2136
01:56:36.760 --> 01:56:40.159
or if These realms are even connected to the afterlife
2137
01:56:40.220 --> 01:56:40.539
at all.
2138
01:56:42.060 --> 01:56:44.829
Well, I mean, yeah, that's the bleakest version of this, right?
2139
01:56:45.649 --> 01:56:48.949
Maybe the quasi-gnostic version is that, no, there isn't an afterlife,
2140
01:56:49.350 --> 01:56:51.729
and no, you don't have souls, but there are paranormal
2141
01:56:51.789 --> 01:56:58.399
entities that capitalize on your emotions. That's terrifying. That's absolutely terrifying, yeah.
2142
01:56:59.060 --> 01:56:59.449
You know, I....
2143
01:57:02.399 --> 01:57:04.819
I don't think that we're ever going to be able to, to,
2144
01:57:04.899 --> 01:57:07.399
to verify that because like, there's always the element of
2145
01:57:07.439 --> 01:57:09.659
yourself in these experiences. What I mean by that is
2146
01:57:09.680 --> 01:57:13.020
that we can prove, and I think we have proven
2147
01:57:13.079 --> 01:57:15.260
quite frankly, if you look at Dean Radin's work, um,
2148
01:57:15.739 --> 01:57:18.699
the existence of Psy, you know, we can sort of, uh,
2149
01:57:19.199 --> 01:57:21.720
take the, take a look at people like Shirley Black
2150
01:57:21.739 --> 01:57:24.500
in the laboratory and show that there's some, some strange
2151
01:57:24.539 --> 01:57:30.189
effects that happen with someone who's had these fringed experiences
2152
01:57:30.449 --> 01:57:34.439
like near-death experiences. But when it comes to spirit contact
2153
01:57:34.600 --> 01:57:41.619
of all sorts, demons or angels or the dead, there's
2154
01:57:41.659 --> 01:57:44.300
always going to be you involved in that equation. There's
2155
01:57:44.319 --> 01:57:47.439
always going to be an observer in that. And if
2156
01:57:47.520 --> 01:57:50.369
it's outside of you or you are creating it or
2157
01:57:50.409 --> 01:57:55.500
projecting it, like a thought form or like a psychoid
2158
01:57:55.579 --> 01:57:58.770
projection or any number of different things that have been proposed.
2159
01:57:59.560 --> 01:58:02.109
I don't think there's ever going to be a way
2160
01:58:02.149 --> 01:58:03.970
to prove that that's not the case. I mean, it's
2161
01:58:04.609 --> 01:58:08.909
even in, it reminds me a bit of what a
2162
01:58:08.949 --> 01:58:12.689
near-death researcher says I overheard say one time was that, yeah,
2163
01:58:12.710 --> 01:58:16.289
there's something strange going on with near-death experiences, but it's
2164
01:58:16.430 --> 01:58:20.949
not people going to another, it's not people being clinically
2165
01:58:20.989 --> 01:58:23.310
dead and overhearing stuff that happens in the operating theater.
2166
01:58:23.390 --> 01:58:25.800
It's them learning about it in sort of a time loop,
2167
01:58:25.810 --> 01:58:30.979
retro-causal thing. So they're precognizing learning about what was said
2168
01:58:31.039 --> 01:58:34.159
or done in the theater while they were dead. I mean, there's,
2169
01:58:34.180 --> 01:58:35.979
there's always going to be that sort of an element, right? Like,
2170
01:58:36.020 --> 01:58:37.439
you know, how much of this is me and how
2171
01:58:37.479 --> 01:58:39.220
much of this exists outside of me. Even if you're,
2172
01:58:39.239 --> 01:58:42.500
even if your grandmother shows up through the Ouija board
2173
01:58:42.560 --> 01:58:45.020
and says something that only you and she, a conversation
2174
01:58:45.060 --> 01:58:47.899
that only you and her had, is that, is that
2175
01:58:47.989 --> 01:58:51.689
coming from her or is it coming from you? Or
2176
01:58:52.250 --> 01:58:55.359
is it coming from something that is accessing your memories and,
2177
01:58:56.079 --> 01:58:59.199
and presenting itself as evidence. Yeah, I don't think it's
2178
01:58:59.239 --> 01:58:59.819
ever going to happen.
2179
01:58:59.920 --> 01:59:03.359
Always more questions than answers with all of this stuff.
2180
01:59:03.479 --> 01:59:06.810
I love it, though, man. Is there anything new upcoming
2181
01:59:06.850 --> 01:59:09.069
that you're working on or taking a little break? What
2182
01:59:09.109 --> 01:59:09.689
you got going?
2183
01:59:10.850 --> 01:59:13.689
Oh, man, no rest for the wicked. So much stuff.
2184
01:59:14.529 --> 01:59:17.890
Some exciting new announcements I should probably have coming up soon.
2185
01:59:18.869 --> 01:59:21.979
But for the time being, the most clear and present
2186
01:59:22.300 --> 01:59:25.829
things about me are two conferences that I'll be doing
2187
01:59:25.850 --> 01:59:27.149
at the end of the summer that I'm really looking
2188
01:59:27.170 --> 01:59:31.649
forward to. The first is Paracon Kansas City. The website
2189
01:59:31.729 --> 01:59:38.960
for that is paraconkc.com. That is August 2nd, 2025 in Leavenworth, Kansas.
2190
01:59:39.640 --> 01:59:44.579
And then later that month, I will be in Cape Girardeau,
2191
01:59:44.699 --> 01:59:50.649
Missouri at the SEMO Mystic Cape Girardeau Paranormal Convention. And
2192
01:59:50.670 --> 01:59:54.590
that's SEMO, S-E-M-O, mysticevents.com. Or you can just go to
2193
01:59:54.630 --> 01:59:56.930
my website and click through those links that I have
2194
01:59:56.989 --> 01:59:58.210
to that up there. And I would love to see
2195
01:59:58.250 --> 02:00:07.180
some people there. Website is joshuacutchin.com, J-O-S-H-U-A-C-U-T-C-H-I-N.com. And you can
2196
02:00:07.220 --> 02:00:09.479
find links to all my stuff up there as well
2197
02:00:09.560 --> 02:00:12.159
as how to purchase a book from me in the U.S.
2198
02:00:12.619 --> 02:00:13.560
I offer signed copies.
2199
02:00:13.619 --> 02:00:18.159
Excellent. Joshua, amazing conversation as usual. Definitely going to be
2200
02:00:18.199 --> 02:00:21.539
doing this again soon. And until next time, everyone, have
2201
02:00:21.560 --> 02:00:24.819
a wonderful evening. We'll talk again tomorrow. See y'all then.
2202
02:00:29.020 --> 02:00:32.579
The nature of this experience seems to always be just
2203
02:00:32.659 --> 02:00:38.079
beyond the reach of our science, technology, and consciousness collective.
2204
02:00:38.760 --> 02:00:43.039
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