WEBVTT
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This episode is brought in partnership with Vinn, the Veterinary Information Network.
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Welcome aboard Flight Plan Quick Consults, the podcast designed to bring busy practice leaders, practical ideas, fresh perspectives, and actionable takeaways in 25 minutes or less.
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I'm your host, Brenda Tassima Medina, and today's flight plan takes us to an important career conversation.
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Your veterinary career is a marathon, not a sprint.
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That's so funny, Melissa.
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We were just talking about running.
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Today's guest panelist is Melissa Maudlin.
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Melissa, could you introduce yourself and share a little bit about your work path in veterinary medicine?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So as Brenda said, my name is Melissa Maldon.
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Um, I have been in the veterinary profession for a little over 20 years now.
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And I started as a CSR at a veterinary hospital, just like many people out there.
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Um and in at my first job, you know, I did a little bit mostly front desk, but you know, I filled in in kennels when I was needed and, you know, did the things we needed to do.
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And then um when I was looking for my I had to move, the reason I left that job is I was moving.
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And, you know, so I started looking for another veterinary hospital.
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And I was in college at the time.
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And so um I found a position at a veterinary hospital that was bookkeeping.
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And I was like, well, that's cool.
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I like working at the vet and I'm majoring in accounting, so that seems perfect.
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Um, so I accepted that position and ended up being on like a little bit of bookkeeping and then working the front desk four days a week.
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So um so I did that for several years.
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And then from that position on, I was in, you know, I started moving into practice management.
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Um, then I, as I started getting through practice management, I moved into like regional leadership overseeing multiple location sites.
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Um then I found my love for HR and moved into HR, and that's what led me to where I am today.
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That's the short version, but but that's been my path.
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So you started as a CSR and now you're a vice president of human resources.
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Yep, yep.
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I don't think that was what you thought, but yes, that's quite the truth.
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No, yeah.
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You know, and when I think about veterinary careers, they rarely unfold in a straight line.
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You're right.
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And in my own career, I like you started at the front desk, and I distinctly remember telling them in the interview that, oh yeah, I'd love to become a technician one day, you know, and I'd grown up in the cat show world and this was just a dream.
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And, you know, meanwhile, you know, when I went to college, it was all about art and fine arts, and you know, that's what my degree's in.
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But um I imagined that that initial role would lead to technician school and eventually to becoming a credential technician.
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Um, that plan took a very sharp turn the day that I had to clean up after a large snake that had musks all over an exam room.
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And it was in that moment I realized I was not cut out for the medical side of the profession, especially in the large exotics and GP practice environment that I was in at the time.
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Um, and that curve in the road was not a dead end, you know.
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And last week we had one of our guests, she's a third-year veterinary student, and she was talking about some of her friends who had just graduated last spring, you know, May, June of last year, who were already considering leaving the veterinary profession.
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And it just crushed my soul.
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I mean, yeah, you know, to think about that.
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And um, you know, part of that is burnout, part of that is, you know, maybe expectations falling short, whatever the case may be, but the burnout is definitely, you know, something that comes top of mind.
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Um, and I know that, you know, you've taken a winding path, I've taken a winding path.
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And I'd love to draw on our experiences as we talk about what it means to build a sustainable, fulfilling career over time in this profession because I love this profession.
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It's meant the world to me, and it has been the career that I never knew existed.
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You know, if my guidance counselor had told me there was such a thing as veterinary practice management, I'd have been all over it.
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But had to discover that myself along this journey.
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Yeah.
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So, my first question that we can talk about is you know, veterinary professionals, they often begin their careers with a very specific picture of what success is supposed to look like.
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So, how should that definition evolve as someone moves through different seasons of their career?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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And you're right, people come in a lot of times with certain expectations.
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Um, for me, my expectation when I started my um my career, it was just gonna be a job while I was finishing up college.
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Um, that was my plan, you know.
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And I was a stay-at-home mom trying to get back to work and talk to real people.
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Yeah, so it wasn't, it was never, you know, I also did not know that this was a thing, managing hospitals.
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I would have never thought about HR leader.
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And at the time I hated HR, so I would not have wanted to be an HR leader.
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Um, but um it's I think that, you know, the definition of success, that's success.
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I think you have to think about what are you looking to achieve in general in your career?
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Like, not specifics like I want this position or I want to do this.
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I've you know coached a lot of leaders that um, you know, there was one, it was work he was working in a call center and I was coaching him, and he was like, Well, I want to be the VP of this department by you know in the next two years.
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And I was like, let's not aim for a specific position, right?
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Because that's a great way to set ourselves up for disappointment.
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And because that it's it's it's if when we don't meet that expectation, we're gonna think we failed or we fell, you know, we fell short on something.
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So I think a way to kind of redefine that is to think or like redefine what success is is what do I want to do?
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What do I want to give?
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What what values are important to me?
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How do I want to give back to the community that I serve?
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Um, what do I want my legacy to be, which is a weird thing to think about when you're 20, you know, and trying to figure these things out.
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And, you know, people aren't thinking about that.
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But I think that can help define your definition, you know, kind of make you rethink that definition of success.
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Um, because it may not look like what you thought it was gonna be.
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I thought I was gonna be a consultant, and you know, I I I at some point I thought that was what I was gonna do.
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And then I discovered um, you know, some roles that I'm in now that, like, you know what, I am having an impact on people, and I'm having an impact on the profession, I'm having impact on leaders and those around me, um, just as much as I would doing consulting, just in a different way.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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You know, one of the things that strikes me when I was thinking about this question is, you know, what is success supposed to look like?
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And I think oftentimes, you know, when we're working in a practice, whether we're a CSR or we're a technician or we're a vet assistant, our our idea of success is okay, I've been doing this for a while.
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I'm pretty good at it.
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Um, and you know, the people around me, I've trained them.
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So my next step is to become the supervisor of this particular area.
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And, you know, I've ran into situations where, you know, I had two technicians that I had promoted to co-technician supervisors, and they were great, um, but they really, really struggled with some of the expectations of that particular role.
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And so it in the end, it did not work out, but they were highly successful in their career beyond that.
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And I think that it's important for people to understand that there is no next step that's set in stone.
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Like if you don't, it's not linear.
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Right.
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Exactly, exactly.
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Yeah, um, people have so much that they can give to a practice in a multitude of ways without having to get that promotion as a supervisor or the the lead in a particular area.
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I know, and that is something that I'm really trying to um, I truly try to impress upon people at this stage, at this place in my career, is succession, success and succession does not have to mean growth into the next role.
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It does not mean have to mean taking a people leader position.
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Um, it could mean becoming more specialized in your field.
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Let's say, you know, with your technician example, maybe I want to be successful.
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I don't, I think so many people think they have to be a leader to be successful.
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Um, they're like, okay, I have to move up to management, I have to be a supervisor and then a manager to continue growing my career and to be successful.
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And then they get there and they hate it.
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They don't like it.
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Because I mean, people management is not always fun.
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It's sometimes you have to have difficult conversations and the there's a lot of pressure, and not everybody loves that.
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Some people thrive in it, some people really don't thrive in it, and that's okay.
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Um, that doesn't mean you're not successful, but for those people, like you know, being able to look beyond and saying, well, maybe I could be an inventory coordinator, maybe I could be an inventory coordinator trainer, you know, maybe I could um become specialized in my in my field of you know, some special interest that I have in the technical side of things.
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Um, and that can be just as successful.
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It doesn't have to be like moving up in uh a level of leadership.
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Yeah, BTS specializing.
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I mean, there's so many opportunities there.
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Yep.
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So when we think about building for the long run, what are the signs that someone is treating their veterinary career like a sprint?
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And what can help them build a career they still want to be a part of 10, 20, or 30 years from now?
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Yep, yep.
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So I understand the whole marathon thing.
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So I will I love to tell everybody, just throwing this out here, that it took me 15 years to finish my bachelor's degree.
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And getting my C BPM was actually what led me to finish it because I realized I was like, I'm so close, let's just go ahead and finish this up.
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And it took a couple of years because I was working full time at Kid.
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So it took some time.
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But but yeah, you want to talk about a marathon.
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15 years of college is is a marathon for sure.
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Um but I I think that when people are treating it like a sprint, what I usually see is um lack of they're not feeling fulfilled in their role, so they're always trying to get to the next role.
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And I went through a bit of this and actually received that feedback about just enjoy where you're at.
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I I have been through this in my life too, where I'm like, okay, I'm where's what's my next role?
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What am I doing next?
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And when we don't understand where we're at and try to soak it all in, um and we're just trying to get to the next thing, we're gonna miss some stuff.
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Um, and that's when I see people treating it like a sprint and not it's not a marathon, because it is a marathon.
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You want to be able to do this a long time.
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Those sprints burn us out and set us up for you know, missed expectations because we're trying so fast to get to that next level so fast, that next thing so quickly.
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Um that it's just we're usually putting in a lot of extra hours because we're trying to get there faster, we're trying to, we're working overtime, and um and it's just it it's it's it's a good setup for it's a good recipe for burnout.
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Um, and then you do get to that next level, but you arrive at that next level of burnout.
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When you could have just said, like, take some time, enjoy where you're at, and it and I think that you know, I learned um to do this by taking a variety of like I've had times in my career where I've had to take a step back, you know.
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When my my older son was younger, I took some time out of the workforce, took a part-time job at a human hospital, and I just said, okay, what skills can I learn that I can take with me when I'm ready to go back to work full-time?
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And I just kind of like, okay, this is a season of my life.
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It's not my forever, um, but I'm gonna learn what I can while I'm here.
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And that's how I try to approach everything now is what can I learn in this moment?
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What can I take here that I can take with me?
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And I think when we're treating it like a sprint, what I see is a lot of people constantly say, like they'll constantly say, When's my next move?
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What's my next step?
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And trying to kind of posture for that next step before they're quite ready for it.
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And then they get frustrated because maybe people aren't listening because they're trying to like say, okay, well, that'll get there.
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Um, here's, you know, maybe some things to accomplish first.
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And it's like, ah, but I do this so well.
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Why can't you just promote me?
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I think about like, you know, kids like in gymnastic skills.
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I went through that with my daughter.
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Why can't you just move me up?
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Went to that next level so fast.
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But there were some fundamentals that she was still missing.
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Um, and so when we're treating it like a sprint, we're just continually trying to get there.
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And then we become frustrated because we're not, it's not going fast enough.
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We're not getting it to that next step fast enough when we might want to step back and think, what fundamentals am I missing that would help me get to that next step?
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Yeah.
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Experience and depth of experience, even failures, I think are so undervalued sometimes.
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I mean, really giving the time to master where you are now, um, I think is essential to this.
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I think back to the first time I ever created a job levels program within my own practice when I was still a hospital administrator.
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And I, you know, had gone to a VHMA conference and the speaker had talked about these job levels and how to create them.
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And I went back and I was like, this is great.
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You know, this would give my team a career path, and they could work through these levels, and it's got continuing education built into it.
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And so I put it all together and we rolled it out.
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And I had uh everybody was excited about it.
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And I had one technician in particular who she loved continuing education.
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She just, you know, she loved it and was constantly learning.
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She blew through like seven levels of that program of 10 levels in like two weeks.
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And I was like, there's something wrong with it.
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I mean, I did this wrong.
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And what I realized afterwards was I did not put any parameters around each level that would keep them there for a period of time long enough for them to actually master what they were checking the box.
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Yes.
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And so from that failure, I adjusted, obviously.
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And when I build them for clients now, that's you know, something that we really make sure is in place.
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And on top of that, I I added this dimension of creating like a master, a master thesis or a master project that they need to complete within that level.
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So it's not just about the CE, but it's about taking a problem in the practice that's related to what you just learned and creating a solution, taking the practice through it, and then staying in that level for a period of time that gives them the opportunity to really practice the things that they've learned and help those around them to really grow within that.
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Yeah, that's that mastery piece is so important.
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You act like the application of the knowledge.
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Um, we can all go to a training or read a book or attend a webinar, but what do we do with that information?
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Just because we have the knowledge doesn't mean we have the mastery to to apply it.
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So really, I I really like how you've uh laid that out there.
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Thanks.
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You know, neither one of us are veterinarians.
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Um when but you are an HR VP, so I'm sure that you've given thought to this.
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But you know, going back to my original, my original statement around, you know, last week's episode bringing up the fact that these young graduates are burning themselves out rather quickly or becoming disenfranchised with veterinary medicine.
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What type of career paths do you see, you know, working for these younger associates just getting out that they might start to explore?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I think that um one thing that can help is like I think that around that is that they're coming in, like, finally, I got through school, I've I'm done, I arrived, and then they get there and it's hard.
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The learning was one thing and it's hard.
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And that's where a lot of that um disenchantment comes from.
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Their expectations aren't being met.
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They thought it was gonna be really easy out of the gate and they're gonna be ready to go.
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Um, so I really think, you know, if we're talking about like how do they path their career to keep it as a marathon, stay in this, is come in, you know, like a sponge.
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What can I learn?
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Don't go in thinking you're supposed to know everything.
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I think that's one of the biggest things.
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You come in, you're like, okay, I'm a veterinarian, I have these letters behind my name.
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Everybody's looking at me to be the expert, and I have to know everything and be perfect.
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And that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
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Um, so coming, I think for the first, I mean, two years, just be a sponge.
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Give yourself grace for not knowing everything.
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You can't know everything.
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That practice owner that's been practicing for 25 years, they're still learning, you know?
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So you can't know everything.
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And I think that's that's one way to kind of start that career path.
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Um, and allow yourself that opportunity too in that first couple of years.
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What do I really enjoy doing?
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Maybe I really enjoy dentistry.
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Um, could there be a pathway where I focus a majority of my practice on dentistry and I become like the best dental, you know, uh veterinarian out there?
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Or maybe I just really enjoy um preventative medicine.
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I really like working, you know, the seeing the puppies and kittens grow up and making sure, you know, being that their person for their lifelong care.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.359
And maybe that's where we center our focus.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:10.960
Um, or it's surgery.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:33.680
And it doesn't mean necessarily you have to specialize in all of this because I know that's a very intense route to go that isn't for everybody too, but you know, you can build a special, special interest in in certain areas if you want and try to kind of, especially if there are people in your practice that maybe other areas are another, the different special interest.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:39.119
You guys could work together to like, okay, they're gonna give me all the dentals and I'm gonna give them the surgeries or something like that.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:39.920
I don't know.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:52.319
Um, but I think that, you know, really just taking the time, don't think you have to know everything in the beginning, and take the time to really just soak it all in and learn.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.839
Take that first few years to figure out what do I actually really enjoy about this job?
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:07.359
And focus on the positives, not what you don't like, not about the angry clients, but what what's going great, what lights me up when these cases come forward?
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.119
This gets me really excited.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.079
What are those things and pay attention to that feeling?
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:23.039
Those are all really good points, and it takes me back to the conversations that I always had with my associates as a hospital administrator and practice manager.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:36.000
Uh, I didn't, you know, I didn't talk to them about their medicine per se, but I did talk to them about their career path and where they saw themselves falling in love with certain areas of medicine.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:56.559
And so over time I learned that um setting our practice up where each doctor had a special niche area that they were pursuing was a great approach because then we created, you know, this this group of doctors that complimented one another, referred clients back and forth to one another.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
One's pursuing dentistry, another one.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.839
Started pursuing reproduction.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.799
And the next thing we knew, we had a sperm bank in place.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.920
And it was like just opened our practice up to growth in a lot of different veterinary service areas.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.200
And I had other doctors who were like, I'm not comfortable in surgery.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:19.359
I'm not confident in surgery.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:28.160
And I'm, but I really love being in the exam room and doing diagnostics and really helping the clients with long-term treatment plans.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:43.359
And it's like, great, let's focus on that so that you become, you know, the best when it comes to client communication, your bedside manner, and you know, reading these diagnostics and being able to communicate solid plans.
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:45.039
You don't need to be in surgery.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.079
It's okay.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:23:00.240
So I think that those kinds of conversations need to happen earlier in their careers so that they they understand there are choices and they're not locked into having to be everything to everything.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:01.599
Good at everything.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:03.680
Yeah, I think that is a struggle.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:08.640
Sometimes that's the expectation that we need to be good at everything.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.519
And every doctor, if you're veterinarian, you just have to be able to do surgery.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.039
But not everybody loves it.
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:26.400
And if they have a love of the exam room, there are plenty of others that have love of surgery and you know, and will gladly take those surgeries that the other doctor is happy to um refer to them.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.880
And, you know, that can that can work really well in some practices.
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:40.400
Um obviously it's gonna be more helpful in the the larger the practice is because if you have like a one or two doctor practice, it's probably hard to have a doctor that doesn't do surgery.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:46.720
But um, but knowing that, you know, might impact the type of practice you go into.
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:55.359
Maybe you do go to a one or two, like a two-doctor practice, and it's not you're like, I just I really want to get out of surgery, they need surgery.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:11.680
Maybe I want to look for a larger hospital um so that I can, you know, maybe I don't have to do surgery, or maybe it's only one day every two weeks, or um, you know, I I think that too, it's you know, assuming like thinking about the type of hospital you want to go into too.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.559
Do I want to be in a small group of people?
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:15.680
And some people love that.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:25.039
Some people love that small two or three doctor tight knit practice, and some people like the larger and the energy that comes out of um a really large practice.
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:26.400
And some people are overwhelmed by that.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.119
So it's, you know, that's important too to think about.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.039
Just because it's not right at one place doesn't mean it won't be right at another.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:33.920
Yeah.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:36.319
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:52.319
I think it's very valuable to anybody who has a career in veterinary medicine, whether they be a veterinarian, a practice manager, a budding practice manager to CSR, there are endless opportunities within this profession.
00:24:52.640 --> 00:25:01.759
And um, I think patience and having open conversations and exploring your passions is definitely the way to go.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:03.680
So thank you for joining us.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.359
Thank you to our listeners for being here with us this week.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:14.240
And thank you to Venn, the Veterinary Information Network, for partnering on this particular episode.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.680
Until next week, keep your mission clear, your team aligned, and your practice soaring.
00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:15.119
This episode is brought in partnership with Vinn, the Veterinary Information Network.
00:00:15.359 --> 00:00:23.199
Since 1991, Vinn has been the home of veterinarians who want to practice better medicine and connect meaningfully with colleagues.
00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:38.640
With over 118,000 members worldwide, 280 specialist consultants, and 35 years of veterinarian-curated, peer-reviewed knowledge behind every search, Venn has everything veterinarians need in one place.
00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:49.280
And with AI Mode, an AI tool that searches only Venn content, Venn members spend less time searching and more time doing the work that really matters.
00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:54.399
Veterinarians can start their 30-day free trial at Venn.com.
00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:09.920
Welcome aboard Flight Plan Quick Consults, the podcast designed to bring busy practice leaders, practical ideas, fresh perspectives, and actionable takeaways in 25 minutes or less.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:17.040
I'm your host, Brenda Tassima Medina, and today's flight plan takes us to an important career conversation.
00:01:17.280 --> 00:01:20.640
Your veterinary career is a marathon, not a sprint.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.079
That's so funny, Melissa.
00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:23.840
We were just talking about running.
00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.840
Today's guest panelist is Melissa Maudlin.
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:35.040
Melissa, could you introduce yourself and share a little bit about your work path in veterinary medicine?
00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:36.400
Yeah, absolutely.
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.280
So as Brenda said, my name is Melissa Maldon.
00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:44.079
Um, I have been in the veterinary profession for a little over 20 years now.
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And I started as a CSR at a veterinary hospital, just like many people out there.
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Um and in at my first job, you know, I did a little bit mostly front desk, but you know, I filled in in kennels when I was needed and, you know, did the things we needed to do.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:09.919
And then um when I was looking for my I had to move, the reason I left that job is I was moving.
00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:13.520
And, you know, so I started looking for another veterinary hospital.
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:15.120
And I was in college at the time.
00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:20.319
And so um I found a position at a veterinary hospital that was bookkeeping.
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:21.759
And I was like, well, that's cool.
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:26.240
I like working at the vet and I'm majoring in accounting, so that seems perfect.
00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:33.199
Um, so I accepted that position and ended up being on like a little bit of bookkeeping and then working the front desk four days a week.
00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:36.639
So um so I did that for several years.
00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:42.800
And then from that position on, I was in, you know, I started moving into practice management.
00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:51.680
Um, then I, as I started getting through practice management, I moved into like regional leadership overseeing multiple location sites.
00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:58.159
Um then I found my love for HR and moved into HR, and that's what led me to where I am today.
00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.240
That's the short version, but but that's been my path.
00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:06.800
So you started as a CSR and now you're a vice president of human resources.
00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:07.680
Yep, yep.
00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.039
I don't think that was what you thought, but yes, that's quite the truth.
00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:12.240
No, yeah.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:17.599
You know, and when I think about veterinary careers, they rarely unfold in a straight line.
00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:18.159
You're right.
00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:35.840
And in my own career, I like you started at the front desk, and I distinctly remember telling them in the interview that, oh yeah, I'd love to become a technician one day, you know, and I'd grown up in the cat show world and this was just a dream.
00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:42.960
And, you know, meanwhile, you know, when I went to college, it was all about art and fine arts, and you know, that's what my degree's in.
00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:52.319
But um I imagined that that initial role would lead to technician school and eventually to becoming a credential technician.
00:03:52.639 --> 00:04:04.080
Um, that plan took a very sharp turn the day that I had to clean up after a large snake that had musks all over an exam room.
00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:16.000
And it was in that moment I realized I was not cut out for the medical side of the profession, especially in the large exotics and GP practice environment that I was in at the time.
00:04:16.639 --> 00:04:23.600
Um, and that curve in the road was not a dead end, you know.
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:39.360
And last week we had one of our guests, she's a third-year veterinary student, and she was talking about some of her friends who had just graduated last spring, you know, May, June of last year, who were already considering leaving the veterinary profession.
00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:41.759
And it just crushed my soul.
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.319
I mean, yeah, you know, to think about that.
00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:58.079
And um, you know, part of that is burnout, part of that is, you know, maybe expectations falling short, whatever the case may be, but the burnout is definitely, you know, something that comes top of mind.
00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:04.319
Um, and I know that, you know, you've taken a winding path, I've taken a winding path.
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:16.959
And I'd love to draw on our experiences as we talk about what it means to build a sustainable, fulfilling career over time in this profession because I love this profession.
00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.839
It's meant the world to me, and it has been the career that I never knew existed.
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:29.279
You know, if my guidance counselor had told me there was such a thing as veterinary practice management, I'd have been all over it.
00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:32.639
But had to discover that myself along this journey.
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:33.439
Yeah.
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:45.360
So, my first question that we can talk about is you know, veterinary professionals, they often begin their careers with a very specific picture of what success is supposed to look like.
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So, how should that definition evolve as someone moves through different seasons of their career?
00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:53.839
Yeah, that's a great question.
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And you're right, people come in a lot of times with certain expectations.
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Um, for me, my expectation when I started my um my career, it was just gonna be a job while I was finishing up college.
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Um, that was my plan, you know.
00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:13.600
And I was a stay-at-home mom trying to get back to work and talk to real people.
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Yeah, so it wasn't, it was never, you know, I also did not know that this was a thing, managing hospitals.
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I would have never thought about HR leader.
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And at the time I hated HR, so I would not have wanted to be an HR leader.
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Um, but um it's I think that, you know, the definition of success, that's success.
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I think you have to think about what are you looking to achieve in general in your career?
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Like, not specifics like I want this position or I want to do this.
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I've you know coached a lot of leaders that um, you know, there was one, it was work he was working in a call center and I was coaching him, and he was like, Well, I want to be the VP of this department by you know in the next two years.
00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.720
And I was like, let's not aim for a specific position, right?
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Because that's a great way to set ourselves up for disappointment.
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And because that it's it's it's if when we don't meet that expectation, we're gonna think we failed or we fell, you know, we fell short on something.
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So I think a way to kind of redefine that is to think or like redefine what success is is what do I want to do?
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What do I want to give?
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What what values are important to me?
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How do I want to give back to the community that I serve?
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Um, what do I want my legacy to be, which is a weird thing to think about when you're 20, you know, and trying to figure these things out.
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And, you know, people aren't thinking about that.
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But I think that can help define your definition, you know, kind of make you rethink that definition of success.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:52.480
Um, because it may not look like what you thought it was gonna be.
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I thought I was gonna be a consultant, and you know, I I I at some point I thought that was what I was gonna do.
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And then I discovered um, you know, some roles that I'm in now that, like, you know what, I am having an impact on people, and I'm having an impact on the profession, I'm having impact on leaders and those around me, um, just as much as I would doing consulting, just in a different way.
00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:18.800
Yeah, absolutely.
00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:26.480
You know, one of the things that strikes me when I was thinking about this question is, you know, what is success supposed to look like?
00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:41.039
And I think oftentimes, you know, when we're working in a practice, whether we're a CSR or we're a technician or we're a vet assistant, our our idea of success is okay, I've been doing this for a while.
00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:42.559
I'm pretty good at it.
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Um, and you know, the people around me, I've trained them.
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So my next step is to become the supervisor of this particular area.
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And, you know, I've ran into situations where, you know, I had two technicians that I had promoted to co-technician supervisors, and they were great, um, but they really, really struggled with some of the expectations of that particular role.
00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:18.960
And so it in the end, it did not work out, but they were highly successful in their career beyond that.
00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:28.240
And I think that it's important for people to understand that there is no next step that's set in stone.
00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:30.480
Like if you don't, it's not linear.
00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:31.519
Right.
00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:33.360
Exactly, exactly.
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:45.279
Yeah, um, people have so much that they can give to a practice in a multitude of ways without having to get that promotion as a supervisor or the the lead in a particular area.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:59.840
I know, and that is something that I'm really trying to um, I truly try to impress upon people at this stage, at this place in my career, is succession, success and succession does not have to mean growth into the next role.
00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.679
It does not mean have to mean taking a people leader position.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.600
Um, it could mean becoming more specialized in your field.
00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:12.159
Let's say, you know, with your technician example, maybe I want to be successful.
00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:16.879
I don't, I think so many people think they have to be a leader to be successful.
00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:23.519
Um, they're like, okay, I have to move up to management, I have to be a supervisor and then a manager to continue growing my career and to be successful.
00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:25.120
And then they get there and they hate it.
00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:26.320
They don't like it.
00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:29.039
Because I mean, people management is not always fun.
00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:35.440
It's sometimes you have to have difficult conversations and the there's a lot of pressure, and not everybody loves that.
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:40.399
Some people thrive in it, some people really don't thrive in it, and that's okay.
00:10:40.639 --> 00:11:01.759
Um, that doesn't mean you're not successful, but for those people, like you know, being able to look beyond and saying, well, maybe I could be an inventory coordinator, maybe I could be an inventory coordinator trainer, you know, maybe I could um become specialized in my in my field of you know, some special interest that I have in the technical side of things.
00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.080
Um, and that can be just as successful.
00:11:04.159 --> 00:11:08.480
It doesn't have to be like moving up in uh a level of leadership.
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:11.279
Yeah, BTS specializing.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.000
I mean, there's so many opportunities there.
00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:14.879
Yep.
00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:23.519
So when we think about building for the long run, what are the signs that someone is treating their veterinary career like a sprint?
00:11:23.759 --> 00:11:30.000
And what can help them build a career they still want to be a part of 10, 20, or 30 years from now?
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:31.440
Yep, yep.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:34.159
So I understand the whole marathon thing.
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:41.279
So I will I love to tell everybody, just throwing this out here, that it took me 15 years to finish my bachelor's degree.
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:49.519
And getting my C BPM was actually what led me to finish it because I realized I was like, I'm so close, let's just go ahead and finish this up.
00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.399
And it took a couple of years because I was working full time at Kid.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.080
So it took some time.
00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:56.080
But but yeah, you want to talk about a marathon.
00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:59.120
15 years of college is is a marathon for sure.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:15.679
Um but I I think that when people are treating it like a sprint, what I usually see is um lack of they're not feeling fulfilled in their role, so they're always trying to get to the next role.
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:20.960
And I went through a bit of this and actually received that feedback about just enjoy where you're at.
00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:24.720
I I have been through this in my life too, where I'm like, okay, I'm where's what's my next role?
00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:26.159
What am I doing next?
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:38.720
And when we don't understand where we're at and try to soak it all in, um and we're just trying to get to the next thing, we're gonna miss some stuff.
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:45.039
Um, and that's when I see people treating it like a sprint and not it's not a marathon, because it is a marathon.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:46.639
You want to be able to do this a long time.
00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:57.360
Those sprints burn us out and set us up for you know, missed expectations because we're trying so fast to get to that next level so fast, that next thing so quickly.
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:12.320
Um that it's just we're usually putting in a lot of extra hours because we're trying to get there faster, we're trying to, we're working overtime, and um and it's just it it's it's it's a good setup for it's a good recipe for burnout.
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:16.399
Um, and then you do get to that next level, but you arrive at that next level of burnout.
00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:32.399
When you could have just said, like, take some time, enjoy where you're at, and it and I think that you know, I learned um to do this by taking a variety of like I've had times in my career where I've had to take a step back, you know.
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:43.519
When my my older son was younger, I took some time out of the workforce, took a part-time job at a human hospital, and I just said, okay, what skills can I learn that I can take with me when I'm ready to go back to work full-time?
00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:47.200
And I just kind of like, okay, this is a season of my life.
00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:51.039
It's not my forever, um, but I'm gonna learn what I can while I'm here.
00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:55.039
And that's how I try to approach everything now is what can I learn in this moment?
00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.759
What can I take here that I can take with me?
00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:06.559
And I think when we're treating it like a sprint, what I see is a lot of people constantly say, like they'll constantly say, When's my next move?
00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:08.000
What's my next step?
00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.720
And trying to kind of posture for that next step before they're quite ready for it.
00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:20.480
And then they get frustrated because maybe people aren't listening because they're trying to like say, okay, well, that'll get there.
00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.279
Um, here's, you know, maybe some things to accomplish first.
00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:25.039
And it's like, ah, but I do this so well.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:26.159
Why can't you just promote me?
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:29.360
I think about like, you know, kids like in gymnastic skills.
00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:30.399
I went through that with my daughter.
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:31.840
Why can't you just move me up?
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.080
Went to that next level so fast.
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:36.720
But there were some fundamentals that she was still missing.
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:42.879
Um, and so when we're treating it like a sprint, we're just continually trying to get there.
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.480
And then we become frustrated because we're not, it's not going fast enough.
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:54.240
We're not getting it to that next step fast enough when we might want to step back and think, what fundamentals am I missing that would help me get to that next step?
00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:55.039
Yeah.
00:14:55.360 --> 00:15:02.000
Experience and depth of experience, even failures, I think are so undervalued sometimes.
00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:10.240
I mean, really giving the time to master where you are now, um, I think is essential to this.
00:15:10.399 --> 00:15:18.320
I think back to the first time I ever created a job levels program within my own practice when I was still a hospital administrator.
00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:26.159
And I, you know, had gone to a VHMA conference and the speaker had talked about these job levels and how to create them.
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.799
And I went back and I was like, this is great.
00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:36.720
You know, this would give my team a career path, and they could work through these levels, and it's got continuing education built into it.
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:40.480
And so I put it all together and we rolled it out.
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:43.759
And I had uh everybody was excited about it.
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:49.200
And I had one technician in particular who she loved continuing education.
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.559
She just, you know, she loved it and was constantly learning.
00:15:52.879 --> 00:16:00.960
She blew through like seven levels of that program of 10 levels in like two weeks.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.519
And I was like, there's something wrong with it.
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:05.360
I mean, I did this wrong.
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:20.000
And what I realized afterwards was I did not put any parameters around each level that would keep them there for a period of time long enough for them to actually master what they were checking the box.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:21.679
Yes.
00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:28.000
And so from that failure, I adjusted, obviously.
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:34.480
And when I build them for clients now, that's you know, something that we really make sure is in place.
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:47.279
And on top of that, I I added this dimension of creating like a master, a master thesis or a master project that they need to complete within that level.
00:16:47.440 --> 00:17:10.079
So it's not just about the CE, but it's about taking a problem in the practice that's related to what you just learned and creating a solution, taking the practice through it, and then staying in that level for a period of time that gives them the opportunity to really practice the things that they've learned and help those around them to really grow within that.
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.839
Yeah, that's that mastery piece is so important.
00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.359
You act like the application of the knowledge.
00:17:17.599 --> 00:17:24.559
Um, we can all go to a training or read a book or attend a webinar, but what do we do with that information?
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.799
Just because we have the knowledge doesn't mean we have the mastery to to apply it.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.160
So really, I I really like how you've uh laid that out there.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.359
Thanks.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.920
You know, neither one of us are veterinarians.
00:17:36.160 --> 00:17:42.640
Um when but you are an HR VP, so I'm sure that you've given thought to this.
00:17:43.039 --> 00:17:58.960
But you know, going back to my original, my original statement around, you know, last week's episode bringing up the fact that these young graduates are burning themselves out rather quickly or becoming disenfranchised with veterinary medicine.
00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:11.359
What type of career paths do you see, you know, working for these younger associates just getting out that they might start to explore?
00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:12.559
Yeah.
00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:27.519
Yeah, I think that um one thing that can help is like I think that around that is that they're coming in, like, finally, I got through school, I've I'm done, I arrived, and then they get there and it's hard.
00:18:27.920 --> 00:18:30.000
The learning was one thing and it's hard.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.920
And that's where a lot of that um disenchantment comes from.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.599
Their expectations aren't being met.
00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.519
They thought it was gonna be really easy out of the gate and they're gonna be ready to go.
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:51.519
Um, so I really think, you know, if we're talking about like how do they path their career to keep it as a marathon, stay in this, is come in, you know, like a sponge.
00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:52.480
What can I learn?
00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:55.039
Don't go in thinking you're supposed to know everything.
00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:56.880
I think that's one of the biggest things.
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:01.200
You come in, you're like, okay, I'm a veterinarian, I have these letters behind my name.
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:05.519
Everybody's looking at me to be the expert, and I have to know everything and be perfect.
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.480
And that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.160
Um, so coming, I think for the first, I mean, two years, just be a sponge.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.279
Give yourself grace for not knowing everything.
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:19.039
You can't know everything.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:25.200
That practice owner that's been practicing for 25 years, they're still learning, you know?
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.119
So you can't know everything.
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:32.240
And I think that's that's one way to kind of start that career path.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:37.359
Um, and allow yourself that opportunity too in that first couple of years.
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.279
What do I really enjoy doing?
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.519
Maybe I really enjoy dentistry.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:53.680
Um, could there be a pathway where I focus a majority of my practice on dentistry and I become like the best dental, you know, uh veterinarian out there?
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:58.079
Or maybe I just really enjoy um preventative medicine.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:06.880
I really like working, you know, the seeing the puppies and kittens grow up and making sure, you know, being that their person for their lifelong care.
00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.359
And maybe that's where we center our focus.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:10.960
Um, or it's surgery.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:33.680
And it doesn't mean necessarily you have to specialize in all of this because I know that's a very intense route to go that isn't for everybody too, but you know, you can build a special, special interest in in certain areas if you want and try to kind of, especially if there are people in your practice that maybe other areas are another, the different special interest.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:39.119
You guys could work together to like, okay, they're gonna give me all the dentals and I'm gonna give them the surgeries or something like that.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:39.920
I don't know.
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:52.319
Um, but I think that, you know, really just taking the time, don't think you have to know everything in the beginning, and take the time to really just soak it all in and learn.
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.839
Take that first few years to figure out what do I actually really enjoy about this job?
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:07.359
And focus on the positives, not what you don't like, not about the angry clients, but what what's going great, what lights me up when these cases come forward?
00:21:07.599 --> 00:21:09.119
This gets me really excited.
00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:12.079
What are those things and pay attention to that feeling?
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:23.039
Those are all really good points, and it takes me back to the conversations that I always had with my associates as a hospital administrator and practice manager.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:36.000
Uh, I didn't, you know, I didn't talk to them about their medicine per se, but I did talk to them about their career path and where they saw themselves falling in love with certain areas of medicine.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:56.559
And so over time I learned that um setting our practice up where each doctor had a special niche area that they were pursuing was a great approach because then we created, you know, this this group of doctors that complimented one another, referred clients back and forth to one another.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.440
One's pursuing dentistry, another one.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:01.839
Started pursuing reproduction.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.799
And the next thing we knew, we had a sperm bank in place.
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.920
And it was like just opened our practice up to growth in a lot of different veterinary service areas.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:17.200
And I had other doctors who were like, I'm not comfortable in surgery.
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:19.359
I'm not confident in surgery.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:28.160
And I'm, but I really love being in the exam room and doing diagnostics and really helping the clients with long-term treatment plans.
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:43.359
And it's like, great, let's focus on that so that you become, you know, the best when it comes to client communication, your bedside manner, and you know, reading these diagnostics and being able to communicate solid plans.
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:45.039
You don't need to be in surgery.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:46.079
It's okay.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:23:00.240
So I think that those kinds of conversations need to happen earlier in their careers so that they they understand there are choices and they're not locked into having to be everything to everything.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:01.599
Good at everything.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:03.680
Yeah, I think that is a struggle.
00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:08.640
Sometimes that's the expectation that we need to be good at everything.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:11.519
And every doctor, if you're veterinarian, you just have to be able to do surgery.
00:23:11.599 --> 00:23:13.039
But not everybody loves it.
00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:26.400
And if they have a love of the exam room, there are plenty of others that have love of surgery and you know, and will gladly take those surgeries that the other doctor is happy to um refer to them.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.880
And, you know, that can that can work really well in some practices.
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:40.400
Um obviously it's gonna be more helpful in the the larger the practice is because if you have like a one or two doctor practice, it's probably hard to have a doctor that doesn't do surgery.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:46.720
But um, but knowing that, you know, might impact the type of practice you go into.
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:55.359
Maybe you do go to a one or two, like a two-doctor practice, and it's not you're like, I just I really want to get out of surgery, they need surgery.
00:23:55.440 --> 00:24:11.680
Maybe I want to look for a larger hospital um so that I can, you know, maybe I don't have to do surgery, or maybe it's only one day every two weeks, or um, you know, I I think that too, it's you know, assuming like thinking about the type of hospital you want to go into too.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.559
Do I want to be in a small group of people?
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:15.680
And some people love that.
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:25.039
Some people love that small two or three doctor tight knit practice, and some people like the larger and the energy that comes out of um a really large practice.
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:26.400
And some people are overwhelmed by that.
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.119
So it's, you know, that's important too to think about.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.039
Just because it's not right at one place doesn't mean it won't be right at another.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:33.920
Yeah.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:36.319
Well, thank you so much for this conversation.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:52.319
I think it's very valuable to anybody who has a career in veterinary medicine, whether they be a veterinarian, a practice manager, a budding practice manager to CSR, there are endless opportunities within this profession.
00:24:52.640 --> 00:25:01.759
And um, I think patience and having open conversations and exploring your passions is definitely the way to go.
00:25:02.480 --> 00:25:03.680
So thank you for joining us.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.359
Thank you to our listeners for being here with us this week.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:14.240
And thank you to Venn, the Veterinary Information Network, for partnering on this particular episode.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:19.680
Until next week, keep your mission clear, your team aligned, and your practice soaring.
