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Hello, everyone, and welcome to 5 to Thrive Live. I'm
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Carolyn Gazzella, and I co-host this show with my good friend, Dr.
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Lise Ulschuler. Today, we will be talking about one of
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my favorite subjects, and that's acupuncture. We'll be discussing this
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powerful tool as it relates to cancer care. My guest
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is Dr. Alex Bjorklund, who is a doctor of oriental
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medicine and a licensed acupuncturist who has been in private
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practice in Santa Fe, New Mexico since 1993. But Before
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we dig in, I'd like to thank our sponsors, beginning
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Dr.
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Bjorklund, thank you so much for joining me.
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Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure
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to be here. I appreciate the work you all do
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on this show.
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It's beautiful.
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Oh, thank you. Yeah, and I know this is one
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of my favorite topics, and I'm guessing it's probably one
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of yours as well.
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It is indeed.
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All right. So because it's been a little while since
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we've discussed acupuncture on the show, let's start with the basics.
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How does acupuncture actually work?
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Well, acupuncture is, as many of you know, it's a
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medicine that roots in China and Southeast Asia. And there
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are findings going back to 1000 BC that show that
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acupuncture existed even then. The first text comes from the
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fourth century. So we have a long history of its
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wisdom and efficacy. The basic theory of acupuncture, and I'm
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going to include the aspect of traditional Chinese medicine, that
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is what I was trained in at the International Institute
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of Chinese Medicine. So when I use traditional Chinese medicine
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or those terms, that's why I'm using those terms. Acupuncture,
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traditional Chinese medicine, is based on the theory of Taoism.
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And Taoism is really the.
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Aspect of everything being in harmony and balance and that
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everything is connected. We are connected to nature, the seasons,
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everything in our body is interconnected. And so acupuncture works
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with the ability for us to continue harmony in the body,
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to restore harmony in the body, or to create harmony
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in the body. You know, so this system, there's meridians
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or pathways in our body, right?
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And they're all connected to the internal organs.
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And what those meridians do, those pathways help to circulate
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what we call chi, which is the vital life force
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in our body. It helps to circulate this chi in
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our body that then gives us this balance and harmony.
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Helps all of our internal organs to function properly, helps
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our response.
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To disease, to illnesses, to stress, to, you know, it
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roots into emotional health. And so, you know, if you
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think of that yin-yang symbol, I always love to point
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this out because I think it's a really great understanding
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of The yin-yang symbol of the circle with the.
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Black and white.
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You know, you have the white dot and the black,
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and the black dot and the white.
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And then the line in the center is a wave.
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It's not a straight line.
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And that's just showing us that there's this balance in
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the universe, including our bodies, that is yin and yang,
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hot and cold, excess and deficiencies. And nothing is ever
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all black or all white. You know, it's constantly transforming
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and shifting and creating and co-creating. And if we're in balance,
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we're in what we might call homeostasis in allopathic medicine.
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So, you know, along.
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These pathways are the acupuncture points. And these acupuncture points,
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and there's hundreds in the body, are where our qi gathers.
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And each of these acupuncture points has a specific action
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and indication. So we have points in the body that
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move qi, that move blood, that move qi and blood.
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So helping things like pain. We have points that tonify
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yin and yang. We have points that calm the mind,
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help calm our vagal nerve systems. So when we select
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these points on the body in specific groupings of points,
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we can treat all kinds of illnesses and help the
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body to come back to balance.
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Yeah, that's what I love about acupuncture. And before we
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get into talking about treatment, you know, I've been getting
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acupuncture and writing about acupuncture for a lot of years.
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And I know that there's a ton of research But
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what do you tell your patients when they ask about
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the research associated with the benefits of acupuncture?
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Yes. I mean, I do point them to different research articles.
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I might, you know, direct them to websites. But I mean,
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it's interesting because I feel like in the 33 years
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that I have been practicing this medicine, all the evidence
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is in front of me on a daily basis. You know,
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so I might share stories with them about different ways
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in which I've helped people treat their chronic illnesses. And so,
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you know, it's interesting, right? Like there's a lot of
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research on herbology as well. So I think it's more
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of an experiential medicine. You know, in my medicine, in
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my traditional training, yes, research obviously is important. But it's
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very hard to put acupuncture into this allopathic research model
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because I believe that acupuncture is also preventative medicine, right?
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If we go see.
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Our acupuncturist on a regular basis, we can't determine and
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know what we're preventing. But we can see the results
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in our body, can't we? I mean, you know, you
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know when you get a treatment how much better you feel.
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You see the results, right?
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And you know we can now see results in people's
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labs you know we see their blood cell counts increase
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we see their white blood cell counts balance all those
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kinds of things we see inflammatory markers decrease so that
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that's kind of how i talk to my patients about.
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It yeah it's such a good point i mean you
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literally have decades witnessing the benefits um on a regular
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basis um So let's specifically talk about cancer care. How
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can acupuncture help with cancer care?
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Oh, my gosh. In so many different ways.
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You know, the thing to think about when you talk
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about oncology and cancer care with acupuncture and Chinese medicine
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is that we really look at each individual as an individual. So,
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you know, there's many different types of cancer. There's different genotypes.
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There's different stages of cancer.
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People will come to me in.
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All different time cycles of a cancer diagnosis. You know,
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being in practice for 33 years, sometimes I've treated someone
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for 20 years and they get diagnosed with cancer. You know,
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sometimes people call me when they're diagnosed with cancer. So
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we look at, I look at a person's body from
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many different aspects and it really is a body, mind,
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spirit medicine. So understanding a person's constitutional health before their
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cancer diagnosis, and perhaps there's clues that we can look
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at from their previous health of what was out of
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balance and And so when I'm now looking at them
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after a cancer diagnosis, and I'm taking their pulses and
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looking at their tongue and listening to their symptoms and
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their issues and I'm looking at their labs and I'm
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looking at their Western medicine type results from which type
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of cancer they have, I'm putting that puzzle together and
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then I'm creating a treatment plan to help that person
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in their journey. And those treatment plans change from, for example,
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while they're going through chemotherapy and radiation, then leading up
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to chemo and radiation, how do we strengthen the chi
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and the blood and calm their mind before they even
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start treatment? how we treat that individual during treatment. And
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then I always tell my patients the first year after
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treatment is incredibly important. You know, that is a time
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we rebuild and restore and bring their body back to that, you.
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Know, system of balance.
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And I use a lot of Chinese herbology in my
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practice too. And, you know, the other thing, when someone's
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going through chemo and radiation, the goal, right, is for
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them to be able to finish that treatment.
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Plan that their oncologist has given them.
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Acupuncture, while being used during their treatment, helps to prevent delays.
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It helps to.
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Treat their fatigue that they're dealing with or, you know,
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digestive issues. That's a big part of it. Keeping the
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person's stomach and spleen digestive system, the earth element, strong
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while they're undergoing chemo and radiation is extremely important. Having
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that person be able to have enough energy, they might...
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be fatigued but if we can keep their energy level
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at a place where they can go for a walk
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or they can do some mild exercise or even rigorous
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exercise depending on the individual that helps that person to
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to go through their oncology treatment program with much more
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success yeah Yeah. Sorry.
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Go ahead.
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Well, no, it's just so, it's so important that it
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helps before, during, and after. And I love the fact
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that you focus on that year after, because oftentimes when
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somebody is done with treatment in conventional medicine, they get
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a pat on the back and they say, good luck,
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you know? And so that year, that year after treatment
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is so important. And I love that you focus on that.
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Is there anyone who should not have acupuncture when they're
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going through cancer treatment or after treatment?
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You know, the only time that I will hesitate to
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do a full acupuncture treatment is when someone's platelets are
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extremely low.
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Then we have to.
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Be very careful with needling. But I might still have
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that patient come in for a treatment because I can
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do acupressure.
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I can use auricular acupuncture, ear points.
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To calm their nervous system, you know, because when people
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are in those stages of cancer and illness, anxiety can
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really increase, right? Like, fear comes up, they're worried, they're
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anxious that they're not able to maybe get that chemo
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treatment or get that radiation treatment. So there's still a
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lot of ways in which I can work with that
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individual without doing, you know, a strong needle acupuncture treatment.
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Yeah, that's a great point. You know, I've interviewed a
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lot of acupuncturists over the years and I've not asked
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one of them this next question. So I'm so excited
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to ask you this question. So caregiving can be such
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a stressful time. Do you ever work on both the
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person with cancer and their caregiver?
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Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, you know, I live in a small town.
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I live in Santa Fe and I've had so many
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of my patients come to see me for over 20 years.
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So oftentimes, you know, I might know even the whole family.
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I might know the kids, the grandparents, the couple, you know.
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So yes, oftentimes I will, or for example, say it's
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even a new patient and they come in the door
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with their caregiver. And when the person is getting an
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acupuncture treatment, there are times where Then I leave the
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room for a few minutes while they're lying there with
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needles so that they can really rest. And I encourage
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them to breathe deeply and things like that. And I
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might come out into the waiting room and speak to
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that caregiver for a few minutes and get the pulse
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with that caregiver if I don't know them. You know,
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how are you doing? You know, how are you feeling?
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And I will always offer them treatment. You know, I'll say,
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you know, it might be a really good idea for
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you to get a treatment every now and then too,
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you know? So, yes. And I email with caregivers, have
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phone conversation with caregivers. I talk to the caregivers about
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diet and nutrition.
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I listen to their concerns because there.
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Are also times when the cancer patient, the person has
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a hard time really describing where they are, you know,
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and you might get a more clear picture from the caregiver.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I'm just so happy that you actually embrace the caregiver
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so fully. I think it's just so important. And this
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next question, I was super excited to read about your
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expertise with end-of-life care. I am a certified grief educator,
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and I have worked with hospice over the years, and
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I think that this is such a critical topic. And
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I have never written about the fact that acupuncture is
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could help with end-of-life care. So how can acupuncture help
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when someone is dying?
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Oh, such a great question.
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And, you know, as you and I both know, right,
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in our culture, we do not talk about death and
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dying as much as we.
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Need to and should.
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I am a big believer in allowing safe place and
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offering deep, compassionate listening to my patients and to meet
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them where they are in their cancer journey. You know,
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I have patients who have really good prognoses, you know,
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and then I have patients that don't have.
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Such great prognoses.
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And, you know, I have several patients right now that
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are in their final stages of being on this planet.
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And I definitely invite deep conversations with them.
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You know, where are you?
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What is alive in you today, even with your prognosis
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and with where you've been? You know, sometimes they've been
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told by their oncologist, there's nothing more we can do.
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For you, you know? I mean, that happens too, as
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we know.
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And so really allowing that person to speak to you
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their death and dying process. And I remind people, and
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I don't want this to sound, you know, glib because
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I don't mean it that way in any way, shape
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or form, but I remind them that there is much
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they can heal, even if they don't survive this disease,
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you know, and I really encourage them to have those
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conversations with their family and with their loved ones.
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And with themselves, with themselves, you know, In.
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New Mexico, we're lucky. We have an agency in our
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depth and guiding process here. So I might invite them
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into that conversation and, you know, point out resources that
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they can find online. We have a New Mexico end-of-life
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coalition here where they can look at what are all
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the options available to them.
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Yeah, it sure sounds like you do a lot more
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than just poke a few needles in.
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You know, I really do. And I've been at this
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a long time. And so what I find is that
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with the overwhelm that Western medicine has right now, not
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only with just, you know, patient load, but, you know,
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insurance companies and all that they are dealing with, right?
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That patients don't often have very deep, long conversations with
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their Western medicine doctors, longing for those conversations. They're longing
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for someone to just listen and hold space and reflect
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things back to them. And the healing that comes out
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of that is profound.
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Yeah, I would agree. So let's stay on end-of-life care. Yeah.
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So does it help?
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I know it probably.
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Helps with mental health, like you mentioned the anxiety, et cetera.
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Does it have physical benefits like pain management or any
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other physical benefits with end-of-life care?
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Absolutely.
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Pain management is a big one, right? end-of-life care, there
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is always some amount of pain involved. And whether that's
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pain or just a deep discomfort and a very high anxiety,
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perhaps the person can't sleep or they sleep in really
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short bouts. So we can calm Shen.
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We calm the.
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Excuse me, calm the spirit with practice of acupuncture.
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And those, again, are using ear points.
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They're specific points on the body that help to calm Shen.
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So reducing anxiety helps to reduce pain levels.
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I do a lot of breath work with people.
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I do points that will help to move that qi
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and blood because oftentimes people Toward the end, there's a
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lot of stagnation in people. And that creates more discomfort,
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more digestive problems. So in that death and dying phase, which,
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you know, can be long and it can be short.
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It depends, right?
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You've seen that over and over again. There's no known,
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there's no protocol. You know, I'll have patients ask me, well,
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how long do you think I have?
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And I'll say, you know, I have no.
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Idea how long you have, but, and then I'll go
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into that conversation with them and then I'll ask them,
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what is your chief complaint? You know, what do you
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want to work with today? And there's always a point.
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That's the wonderful thing about acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine.
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There are so many points on the body that do
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so many different things that we can really help with that.
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Yeah, I would agree. So in general, if somebody is
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listening and they're a little hesitant about trying acupuncture, what
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advice would you give them?
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Great question.
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I would first inquire what is their hesitancy? Is it
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a fear of needles? Is it because they don't think
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it works? So I'd like to kind of hear... What
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makes them hesitant? And then I'll address that. So if
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it's fear of needles, which is not uncommon, I will
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explain to them that the acupuncture needles are literally about
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two hair widths wide and they do not hurt. I'm
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not taking blood from you. I'm not injecting anything into
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your body. I'm simply inserting this very, very thin acupuncture
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needle into a point. And I always tell people, if
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anything hurts, you tell them it does not have to
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hurt to work. Then if it's that they don't think
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it works, I will point to them. I will point
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them to the research. I will share stories with them
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about people I've helped over the years. Yeah, and sometimes
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I'll say to that person, hey, listen, why don't you
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come in for a treatment? We don't even have to
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start with needles if you don't want to. Let's meet
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and greet. Let's do a good thorough intake. You talk
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to me about what's going on and then let's look
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at all the different tools I have of how I
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might be able to support you in this journey.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I have
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to say I've had some wonderful acupuncturists work on me
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over the years and it's been life-changing. Um, I, I
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am a huge fan. Uh, my two horses have had acupuncture.
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My dogs have had acupuncture. So I, I am a big,
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big fan of your, of your work. So, um, where,
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where can people find out more about you and your work?
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Do you have a website that you'd like to share?
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I do. I have a website.
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It's just dralexbjorklin.com. So it's D-R-A-L-I-X.com. B-J-O-R-K-L-U-N-D.com.
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Very simple.
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I would also like to let people know, let the
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listeners know that whatever state you live in, your state
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has some sort of acupuncture association. And if you go
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on to your state's acupuncture association website, you will see
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listings of acupuncturists in your state, in your community. You know,
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also talk to your oncologist about it or your Western
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medicine doctor about it. You know, here in New Mexico,
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oncologists refer to acupuncture all the time. You know, MD Anderson,
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Sloan Kettering, Christus here in Santa Fe, hospitals all over
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the country now have acupuncturists on staff in their cancer clinic.
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So acupuncture is widely available to people. And I always
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encourage people to get acupuncture when they're on their cancer
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journey because it will make all the difference in the world.
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It really will. You will be.
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Able to thrive and survive your cancer in a much
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better and more efficient way by using acupuncture and oriental medicine.
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Yeah, and it's such a great point. Most, if not all,
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of the integrative oncology centers in the United States have
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a pretty good focus on acupuncture, and they do work
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acupuncture in. So definitely reach out to your oncologist. Well,
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this has been great, Dr.
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Barkham.
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Thanks again for joining me.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Take care.
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All right.
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00:25:57.170 --> 00:25:59.910
Well, once again, I'd like to thank our sponsors, Pro
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Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula, Pro Thrivers Wellness Brain Formula, Cetriaglutathione,
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can find past shows at ithriveplan.com or wherever you listen
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00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.990
to your favorite podcast. May you experience joy, laughter, and love.
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00:26:23.650 --> 00:26:24.740
It's time to thrive, everyone.
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00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:25.660
Have a great night.
1
00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:29.000
Hello, everyone, and welcome to 5 to Thrive Live. I'm
2
00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:32.520
Carolyn Gazzella, and I co-host this show with my good friend, Dr.
3
00:00:32.539 --> 00:00:36.149
Lise Ulschuler. Today, we will be talking about one of
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00:00:36.210 --> 00:00:39.969
my favorite subjects, and that's acupuncture. We'll be discussing this
5
00:00:40.009 --> 00:00:43.130
powerful tool as it relates to cancer care. My guest
6
00:00:43.210 --> 00:00:46.229
is Dr. Alex Bjorklund, who is a doctor of oriental
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00:00:46.289 --> 00:00:49.689
medicine and a licensed acupuncturist who has been in private
8
00:00:49.729 --> 00:00:54.530
practice in Santa Fe, New Mexico since 1993. But Before
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we dig in, I'd like to thank our sponsors, beginning
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more at droharaprobiotics.com.
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00:01:52.859 --> 00:01:53.140
Dr.
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Bjorklund, thank you so much for joining me.
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Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure
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to be here. I appreciate the work you all do
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on this show.
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It's beautiful.
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Oh, thank you. Yeah, and I know this is one
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of my favorite topics, and I'm guessing it's probably one
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of yours as well.
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It is indeed.
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All right. So because it's been a little while since
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we've discussed acupuncture on the show, let's start with the basics.
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How does acupuncture actually work?
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Well, acupuncture is, as many of you know, it's a
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medicine that roots in China and Southeast Asia. And there
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are findings going back to 1000 BC that show that
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acupuncture existed even then. The first text comes from the
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fourth century. So we have a long history of its
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wisdom and efficacy. The basic theory of acupuncture, and I'm
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going to include the aspect of traditional Chinese medicine, that
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is what I was trained in at the International Institute
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of Chinese Medicine. So when I use traditional Chinese medicine
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or those terms, that's why I'm using those terms. Acupuncture,
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traditional Chinese medicine, is based on the theory of Taoism.
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And Taoism is really the.
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Aspect of everything being in harmony and balance and that
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everything is connected. We are connected to nature, the seasons,
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everything in our body is interconnected. And so acupuncture works
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with the ability for us to continue harmony in the body,
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to restore harmony in the body, or to create harmony
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in the body. You know, so this system, there's meridians
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or pathways in our body, right?
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And they're all connected to the internal organs.
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And what those meridians do, those pathways help to circulate
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what we call chi, which is the vital life force
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in our body. It helps to circulate this chi in
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our body that then gives us this balance and harmony.
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Helps all of our internal organs to function properly, helps
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our response.
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To disease, to illnesses, to stress, to, you know, it
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roots into emotional health. And so, you know, if you
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think of that yin-yang symbol, I always love to point
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this out because I think it's a really great understanding
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of The yin-yang symbol of the circle with the.
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Black and white.
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You know, you have the white dot and the black,
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and the black dot and the white.
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And then the line in the center is a wave.
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It's not a straight line.
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And that's just showing us that there's this balance in
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the universe, including our bodies, that is yin and yang,
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hot and cold, excess and deficiencies. And nothing is ever
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all black or all white. You know, it's constantly transforming
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and shifting and creating and co-creating. And if we're in balance,
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we're in what we might call homeostasis in allopathic medicine.
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So, you know, along.
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These pathways are the acupuncture points. And these acupuncture points,
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and there's hundreds in the body, are where our qi gathers.
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And each of these acupuncture points has a specific action
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and indication. So we have points in the body that
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move qi, that move blood, that move qi and blood.
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So helping things like pain. We have points that tonify
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yin and yang. We have points that calm the mind,
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help calm our vagal nerve systems. So when we select
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these points on the body in specific groupings of points,
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we can treat all kinds of illnesses and help the
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body to come back to balance.
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Yeah, that's what I love about acupuncture. And before we
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get into talking about treatment, you know, I've been getting
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acupuncture and writing about acupuncture for a lot of years.
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And I know that there's a ton of research But
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what do you tell your patients when they ask about
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the research associated with the benefits of acupuncture?
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Yes. I mean, I do point them to different research articles.
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I might, you know, direct them to websites. But I mean,
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it's interesting because I feel like in the 33 years
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that I have been practicing this medicine, all the evidence
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is in front of me on a daily basis. You know,
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so I might share stories with them about different ways
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in which I've helped people treat their chronic illnesses. And so,
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you know, it's interesting, right? Like there's a lot of
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research on herbology as well. So I think it's more
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of an experiential medicine. You know, in my medicine, in
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my traditional training, yes, research obviously is important. But it's
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very hard to put acupuncture into this allopathic research model
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because I believe that acupuncture is also preventative medicine, right?
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If we go see.
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Our acupuncturist on a regular basis, we can't determine and
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know what we're preventing. But we can see the results
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in our body, can't we? I mean, you know, you
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know when you get a treatment how much better you feel.
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You see the results, right?
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And you know we can now see results in people's
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labs you know we see their blood cell counts increase
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we see their white blood cell counts balance all those
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kinds of things we see inflammatory markers decrease so that
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that's kind of how i talk to my patients about.
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It yeah it's such a good point i mean you
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literally have decades witnessing the benefits um on a regular
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basis um So let's specifically talk about cancer care. How
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can acupuncture help with cancer care?
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Oh, my gosh. In so many different ways.
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You know, the thing to think about when you talk
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about oncology and cancer care with acupuncture and Chinese medicine
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is that we really look at each individual as an individual. So,
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you know, there's many different types of cancer. There's different genotypes.
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There's different stages of cancer.
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People will come to me in.
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All different time cycles of a cancer diagnosis. You know,
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being in practice for 33 years, sometimes I've treated someone
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for 20 years and they get diagnosed with cancer. You know,
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sometimes people call me when they're diagnosed with cancer. So
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we look at, I look at a person's body from
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many different aspects and it really is a body, mind,
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spirit medicine. So understanding a person's constitutional health before their
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cancer diagnosis, and perhaps there's clues that we can look
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at from their previous health of what was out of
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balance and And so when I'm now looking at them
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after a cancer diagnosis, and I'm taking their pulses and
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looking at their tongue and listening to their symptoms and
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their issues and I'm looking at their labs and I'm
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looking at their Western medicine type results from which type
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of cancer they have, I'm putting that puzzle together and
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then I'm creating a treatment plan to help that person
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in their journey. And those treatment plans change from, for example,
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while they're going through chemotherapy and radiation, then leading up
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to chemo and radiation, how do we strengthen the chi
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and the blood and calm their mind before they even
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start treatment? how we treat that individual during treatment. And
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then I always tell my patients the first year after
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treatment is incredibly important. You know, that is a time
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we rebuild and restore and bring their body back to that, you.
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Know, system of balance.
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And I use a lot of Chinese herbology in my
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practice too. And, you know, the other thing, when someone's
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going through chemo and radiation, the goal, right, is for
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them to be able to finish that treatment.
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Plan that their oncologist has given them.
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Acupuncture, while being used during their treatment, helps to prevent delays.
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It helps to.
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Treat their fatigue that they're dealing with or, you know,
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digestive issues. That's a big part of it. Keeping the
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person's stomach and spleen digestive system, the earth element, strong
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while they're undergoing chemo and radiation is extremely important. Having
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that person be able to have enough energy, they might...
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be fatigued but if we can keep their energy level
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at a place where they can go for a walk
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or they can do some mild exercise or even rigorous
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exercise depending on the individual that helps that person to
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to go through their oncology treatment program with much more
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success yeah Yeah. Sorry.
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Go ahead.
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Well, no, it's just so, it's so important that it
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helps before, during, and after. And I love the fact
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that you focus on that year after, because oftentimes when
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somebody is done with treatment in conventional medicine, they get
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a pat on the back and they say, good luck,
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you know? And so that year, that year after treatment
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is so important. And I love that you focus on that.
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Is there anyone who should not have acupuncture when they're
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going through cancer treatment or after treatment?
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You know, the only time that I will hesitate to
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do a full acupuncture treatment is when someone's platelets are
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extremely low.
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Then we have to.
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Be very careful with needling. But I might still have
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that patient come in for a treatment because I can
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do acupressure.
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I can use auricular acupuncture, ear points.
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To calm their nervous system, you know, because when people
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are in those stages of cancer and illness, anxiety can
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really increase, right? Like, fear comes up, they're worried, they're
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anxious that they're not able to maybe get that chemo
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treatment or get that radiation treatment. So there's still a
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lot of ways in which I can work with that
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individual without doing, you know, a strong needle acupuncture treatment.
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Yeah, that's a great point. You know, I've interviewed a
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lot of acupuncturists over the years and I've not asked
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one of them this next question. So I'm so excited
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to ask you this question. So caregiving can be such
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a stressful time. Do you ever work on both the
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person with cancer and their caregiver?
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Absolutely. Absolutely. Again, you know, I live in a small town.
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I live in Santa Fe and I've had so many
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of my patients come to see me for over 20 years.
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So oftentimes, you know, I might know even the whole family.
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I might know the kids, the grandparents, the couple, you know.
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So yes, oftentimes I will, or for example, say it's
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even a new patient and they come in the door
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with their caregiver. And when the person is getting an
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acupuncture treatment, there are times where Then I leave the
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room for a few minutes while they're lying there with
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needles so that they can really rest. And I encourage
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them to breathe deeply and things like that. And I
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might come out into the waiting room and speak to
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that caregiver for a few minutes and get the pulse
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with that caregiver if I don't know them. You know,
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how are you doing? You know, how are you feeling?
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And I will always offer them treatment. You know, I'll say,
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you know, it might be a really good idea for
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you to get a treatment every now and then too,
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you know? So, yes. And I email with caregivers, have
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phone conversation with caregivers. I talk to the caregivers about
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diet and nutrition.
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I listen to their concerns because there.
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Are also times when the cancer patient, the person has
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a hard time really describing where they are, you know,
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and you might get a more clear picture from the caregiver.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I'm just so happy that you actually embrace the caregiver
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so fully. I think it's just so important. And this
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next question, I was super excited to read about your
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expertise with end-of-life care. I am a certified grief educator,
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and I have worked with hospice over the years, and
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I think that this is such a critical topic. And
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I have never written about the fact that acupuncture is
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could help with end-of-life care. So how can acupuncture help
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when someone is dying?
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Oh, such a great question.
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And, you know, as you and I both know, right,
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in our culture, we do not talk about death and
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dying as much as we.
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Need to and should.
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I am a big believer in allowing safe place and
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offering deep, compassionate listening to my patients and to meet
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them where they are in their cancer journey. You know,
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I have patients who have really good prognoses, you know,
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and then I have patients that don't have.
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Such great prognoses.
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And, you know, I have several patients right now that
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are in their final stages of being on this planet.
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And I definitely invite deep conversations with them.
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You know, where are you?
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What is alive in you today, even with your prognosis
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and with where you've been? You know, sometimes they've been
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told by their oncologist, there's nothing more we can do.
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For you, you know? I mean, that happens too, as
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we know.
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And so really allowing that person to speak to you
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their death and dying process. And I remind people, and
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I don't want this to sound, you know, glib because
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I don't mean it that way in any way, shape
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or form, but I remind them that there is much
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they can heal, even if they don't survive this disease,
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you know, and I really encourage them to have those
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conversations with their family and with their loved ones.
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And with themselves, with themselves, you know, In.
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New Mexico, we're lucky. We have an agency in our
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depth and guiding process here. So I might invite them
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into that conversation and, you know, point out resources that
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they can find online. We have a New Mexico end-of-life
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coalition here where they can look at what are all
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the options available to them.
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Yeah, it sure sounds like you do a lot more
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than just poke a few needles in.
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You know, I really do. And I've been at this
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a long time. And so what I find is that
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with the overwhelm that Western medicine has right now, not
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only with just, you know, patient load, but, you know,
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insurance companies and all that they are dealing with, right?
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That patients don't often have very deep, long conversations with
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their Western medicine doctors, longing for those conversations. They're longing
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for someone to just listen and hold space and reflect
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things back to them. And the healing that comes out
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of that is profound.
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Yeah, I would agree. So let's stay on end-of-life care. Yeah.
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So does it help?
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I know it probably.
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Helps with mental health, like you mentioned the anxiety, et cetera.
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Does it have physical benefits like pain management or any
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other physical benefits with end-of-life care?
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Absolutely.
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Pain management is a big one, right? end-of-life care, there
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is always some amount of pain involved. And whether that's
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pain or just a deep discomfort and a very high anxiety,
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perhaps the person can't sleep or they sleep in really
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short bouts. So we can calm Shen.
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We calm the.
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Excuse me, calm the spirit with practice of acupuncture.
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And those, again, are using ear points.
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They're specific points on the body that help to calm Shen.
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So reducing anxiety helps to reduce pain levels.
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I do a lot of breath work with people.
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I do points that will help to move that qi
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and blood because oftentimes people Toward the end, there's a
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lot of stagnation in people. And that creates more discomfort,
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more digestive problems. So in that death and dying phase, which,
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you know, can be long and it can be short.
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It depends, right?
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You've seen that over and over again. There's no known,
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there's no protocol. You know, I'll have patients ask me, well,
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how long do you think I have?
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And I'll say, you know, I have no.
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Idea how long you have, but, and then I'll go
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into that conversation with them and then I'll ask them,
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what is your chief complaint? You know, what do you
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want to work with today? And there's always a point.
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That's the wonderful thing about acupuncture and traditional Chinese medicine.
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There are so many points on the body that do
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so many different things that we can really help with that.
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Yeah, I would agree. So in general, if somebody is
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listening and they're a little hesitant about trying acupuncture, what
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advice would you give them?
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Great question.
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I would first inquire what is their hesitancy? Is it
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a fear of needles? Is it because they don't think
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it works? So I'd like to kind of hear... What
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makes them hesitant? And then I'll address that. So if
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it's fear of needles, which is not uncommon, I will
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explain to them that the acupuncture needles are literally about
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two hair widths wide and they do not hurt. I'm
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not taking blood from you. I'm not injecting anything into
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your body. I'm simply inserting this very, very thin acupuncture
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needle into a point. And I always tell people, if
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anything hurts, you tell them it does not have to
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hurt to work. Then if it's that they don't think
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it works, I will point to them. I will point
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them to the research. I will share stories with them
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about people I've helped over the years. Yeah, and sometimes
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I'll say to that person, hey, listen, why don't you
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come in for a treatment? We don't even have to
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start with needles if you don't want to. Let's meet
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and greet. Let's do a good thorough intake. You talk
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to me about what's going on and then let's look
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at all the different tools I have of how I
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might be able to support you in this journey.
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Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I have
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to say I've had some wonderful acupuncturists work on me
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over the years and it's been life-changing. Um, I, I
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am a huge fan. Uh, my two horses have had acupuncture.
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My dogs have had acupuncture. So I, I am a big,
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big fan of your, of your work. So, um, where,
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where can people find out more about you and your work?
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Do you have a website that you'd like to share?
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I do. I have a website.
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It's just dralexbjorklin.com. So it's D-R-A-L-I-X.com. B-J-O-R-K-L-U-N-D.com.
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Very simple.
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I would also like to let people know, let the
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listeners know that whatever state you live in, your state
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has some sort of acupuncture association. And if you go
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on to your state's acupuncture association website, you will see
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listings of acupuncturists in your state, in your community. You know,
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also talk to your oncologist about it or your Western
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medicine doctor about it. You know, here in New Mexico,
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oncologists refer to acupuncture all the time. You know, MD Anderson,
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Sloan Kettering, Christus here in Santa Fe, hospitals all over
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the country now have acupuncturists on staff in their cancer clinic.
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So acupuncture is widely available to people. And I always
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encourage people to get acupuncture when they're on their cancer
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journey because it will make all the difference in the world.
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It really will. You will be.
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Able to thrive and survive your cancer in a much
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better and more efficient way by using acupuncture and oriental medicine.
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Yeah, and it's such a great point. Most, if not all,
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of the integrative oncology centers in the United States have
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a pretty good focus on acupuncture, and they do work
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acupuncture in. So definitely reach out to your oncologist. Well,
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this has been great, Dr.
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Barkham.
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Thanks again for joining me.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Take care.
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All right.
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Well, once again, I'd like to thank our sponsors, Pro
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Thrivers Wellness Sleep Formula, Pro Thrivers Wellness Brain Formula, Cetriaglutathione,
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the superior glutathione to support liver and immune health, and Dr.
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O'Hara's award-winning shelf-stable probiotic. Thanks for listening, and remember, you
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can find past shows at ithriveplan.com or wherever you listen
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00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:22.990
to your favorite podcast. May you experience joy, laughter, and love.
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It's time to thrive, everyone.
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Have a great night.
