The War on Journalism with NABJ LA President Shar Jossell

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St BLA Talk fifteen eighty. Oh my, oh my, the
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time the Trump administration is cracking down, cracking down further
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on journalism, cracking down further on activism. And I you know,
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why do I keep talking about this? I mean, there's
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I've got good news and I've got bad news, is
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what I always say. I talk about it partly because
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it's my job to be on the press and talking
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about things that this administration does not want you to
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talk about, right, things that this administration doesn't want you
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to talk about, oh my, And so that's one of
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the reasons why I'm always talking about this. But the
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other reason is because we the people do make difference here, right,
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We are the customers and consumers of said press, and
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so we when we push back, it does help. And
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the third reason is because I just want us to
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be aware to the extent that these mainstream media, aware
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of the extent that these mainstream media outlets are being controlled, threatened, pressured,
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influenced by Brendan Carr, who is the Republican leader of
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the Federal Communications Commission, and by the Trump administration directly, right.
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And so that's where we are looking forward to having
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the conversation about this and other items, but this issue
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of how do we maintain a free press when we
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have more and more consolidation of the press, And despite
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the talking point that our media is liberal, it turns
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out that if you scratch beneath the talking point, you
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find that most US media is owned by far right
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wing or mildly white right wing conservatives. Right. I always
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say it. Larry Ellison and David Ellison, the pro netan
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Yahoo Trump donors own TikTok. Now, they own CBS paramount.
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They are trying to buy Warner Brothers, which mean they
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means they would own CNN. The only reason that that
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hasn't happened yet is because US Attorneys general, twelve of
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them sued to stop the Warner Brothers merger. Now, will
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it eventually happen, I don't know, but it's it's shut
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down for now because of US States Attorney generals suing
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on antitrust grounds. Okay, and so and now also the
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Director's Guild of Americas has jumped in, so a judge
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has paused that merger. That's a temporary pause.
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Uh.
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And we'll talk about all of these things that are
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happening in the press environment, what it means, and how
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we can push back when we come forward. Shar Joe
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Zelle of the National Association of Black Journalists joins me
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next on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. Really, yes, indeed, I do.
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Thank you. I thank you for being here, and I
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you know, I wanted to start off talking about the
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press and what is happening with the press. I've never
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seen it in my lifetime, and we just so happen
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to have someone who's not only a member of said press,
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but also a bit of an expert in this area.
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She's an award winning journalist, a media personality, and a writer.
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And though she does our entertainment, she also writes on
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intersections of gender politics, race, pop culture. She's been on
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The Huffington Post, TMC, Foxhoul, BuzzFeed, Essence, Variety, et cetera,
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et cetera. Shar Jozelle, welcome.
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Hi, good morning.
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And also you're you're you know, a leader at the
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National Association Black Journalist.
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Yes, I'm the current president.
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Yeah, yeah, well congratulations on that and thank you. You know,
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I have done events with NABJ. I've never been a
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member for whatever reason, but it was never a protest
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I just never got around to it kind of thing.
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But I'm really proud of you guys and just the
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way you guys have been showing up in this very
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hostile media environment that we're in.
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Thank you for that. You know, it has not been easy.
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This has been something that particularly within these past like
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two or three years, that has been a little all
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over the place and a little unpredictable. But we are
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hanging in there and doing our good work.
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Yeah, and when can you see I mean, we'll rewind
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a little bit, but when you see like CBS YouTube,
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I can't remember what others, there's a long list of
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media outlets that have given millions of dollars to the
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President because he threatened them about their coverage and basically
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the dismantling of sixty minutes on CBS. What do you
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think when you see that?
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It's scary. I get very It makes me sad, you know,
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as someone who was once a champion and a believer
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in more corporatized media. It shines a light on, in
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my view, at least, something that's a little bit darker.
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And I don't know if the damage that's being done
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with corporate media, if they will be able to regain
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the trust of the public moving forward, because there's no pushback,
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there's very little accountability. I have to applaud ABC for
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what they're doing. They're being threatened right now, you know,
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with Brendan Carr and the FCC with their licensing, because
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they are challenging the current president and his cronies in
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this administration. And so yeah, I think that it compromises
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and jeopardizes future trust with the public when networks and
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publications bend the knee in that way where it's like, wow, okay,
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you know you're not even trying to hide it. You
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know that all of these conglomerates and all of these mergers,
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they're unethical. And sometimes when you lean so biased, well oftentimes,
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when you lean so biased and you're not presenting the
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news in a fair and balanced way, it just compromises
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the integrity of the entire thing and it bleeds into
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everything every journalist, everybody affiliated with the networks. It makes
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me scratch my head.
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That's a really good point. I Mean, we talk a
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lot about whether the press will survive and whether they
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have any objectivity with those are the most common questions,
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But whether or not anyone's going to even listen to
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them is a really interesting question. Yeah, because we are
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getting more and more of our news from social media
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out our own peril in a way.
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Yeah, yeah, and oftentimes it's at our own peril because
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you don't know. We talk about this a lot within NABJLA.
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We just had our June General Body meeting last month
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that was discussing like influencers versus journalists and like finding
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like that hybrid about like how influencers can learn ethics
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from journalists and how journalists can learn personal branding from influencers.
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So yeah, personal branding and how to not be boring.
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Yes, yes, but we had you know, we had people
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that were from like traditional news, where there's like certain
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contracts and certain things you can say and certain things
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you can do. But yeah, it's it's really rough right
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now because a lot of people do not know the
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difference between the two or the rising popularity of opinion journalism,
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and so yeah, social media is a gift and a
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curse when it comes to independent media for sure.
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I mean to be clear, in the journalist world, the
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traditional journalist world, I'm not talking mainstream I'm talking the
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way we were taught journalism, and right there are. You
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can do opinion. You can write an editorial and still
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be able to deliver unbiased news or even if it's
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unby fair news, right right, And that's how I was trained.
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So I can be on here talking about the resident
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you know, of the United States and talking smack one minute,
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and then when I read you the news, I'm going
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to give you the fact. But right now, do you
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think that there is that most people understand the difference
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between opinion and news.
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No, And I think that it is directly linked to
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the literacy crisis currently in the United States. And I
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also think that because of social media, we have shifted
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into a hot take culture. So people, I'm sure tuning
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into your show to hear you deliver the news, but
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they also want to know what you think about it, Like,
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you know, it's the cult of personality, so to speak.
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That is what seems to be, you know, nourishing the
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appetite of the American people right now. So it's a
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totally different landscape than what we were trained in.
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But what I'm trying to argue is that you can
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do both. Yes, I've been doing it forever. Yeah, okay.
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Cult of personality they like someone that cuts up, all right,
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I'm happy to cut up right, go off. But at
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the same time, back to what you were saying about contracts. Yeah,
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those contracts when you reference things you can and cannot do.
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What we're talking about is the journalistic standards of wherever
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you are at. So explain what that looks.
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Like, correct. I know that. Like, for example, we had
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someone on our panel last month who works at the
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local NBC station here in Los Angeles, and she was
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saying that there's just certain things she can't do, like
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she basically anything that she does for socials has to
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be approved through the news director and station heads before
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it goes up. And that's even like within her personal life,
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even with certain like she can't even say what makeup
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she's wearing. They're just certain rules, like you can't endorse
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like I love this powder from clinique or whatever, and
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so it's just it's just different rules. And I think
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I think that news stations are a bit behind when
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it comes to that, when it comes to the hybrid,
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like you're requiring a lot of times requiring reporters and
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news anchors or encouraging them to have a social media
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preference presence. Excuse me, have a social media presence, but
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then there are these balls and chains, and you know,
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these gates that are being kept from them, showing the
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true nature of their personality.
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Right, they want you to have socials, but they won't
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let you be.
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Popular, right, Right, don't get too popular to be boring. Right.
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But supposedly those types of restrictions are meant to protect
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the journalistic integrity and the image of the station and
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the outlet, and so that's where it's where it's rooted in.
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But then when you come to influencers and hot takers
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and opinion journalists, they have none of those restrictions, right.
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That, they do not have any of those And and
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to your point, these these anchors and reporters, they are
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extensions of the network of the publication. When you're an
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influencer or an independent journalist, you can literally do whatever
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you want to do. But then you also have to
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be aware, if you know, we've seen examples of Elon
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Musk and people of that Ilk coming after independent journalists
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and reporters legislatives, legislatively and legally, and so it's like
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we really have to watch what we say and do,
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even in the name of truth, because are you prepared
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to deal with the lawsuit because they're they're splitting hairs
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without something that she said, And so it's something to
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really examine. And I think that we are at an
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inflection point in journalism right now. I don't know. I
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can't predict the future. I don't know what the next
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three years, three to five years will look like for
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the industry as a whole.
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So when you say inflection point, are you saying we
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may be returning to sort of a more structured system
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of journalism, or we don't, or anything goes maybe the
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old system has gone forever. I've argued to myself that
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the lines between entertainment and journalism are almost completely gone
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at this point.
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For sure. For sure, I think Fox News definitely helped
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usher in enfotainment style reporting, and then we have shows
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like Abby Phillip on CNN, we have the view people. Really,
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we are really in a hot take ecosystem right now,
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and I do not think. I think that there's been
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so much distrust sown amongst the public and with consumers
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that I don't think we'll ever return to what we
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once knew in the in the face of journalisms.
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Well, and I guess the if there is a silver
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lining to that. It's the fact that black people, Black
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consumers of news and journalism have always turned to what
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they call trusted messengers, right, just people that have been
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down in our community. We know what they're talking about.
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And so in a way, for those of us who
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have been doing this for a hundred years, or those
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of you who have been doing it forever, however many
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years you've been doing it, which is not one hundred okay, yeah,
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much younger than I am, that that's actually an advantage
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for us. Yes, because our listeners are going to tune
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out the noise to an extent. Our readers are going
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to say, okay, well, what is shar Jose El saying?
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What is dognique de prima saying? Right, because it's just
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too many hot takes?
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Yeah, yeah, but we have to sift through a lot
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of different things. And I think the consumers we are
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doing and when I say we, I don't mean journalists
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per se. I just think that it's part of the
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greater American landscape that there's a disservice when it comes
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to literacy and confirmation bias because a lot of people
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within the hot take are within the opinionjournalism. They are looking,
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whether it be consciously or subconsciously, for confirmation bias. If
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they think that one group of people is terrible, or
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one group of people is responsible for them not getting
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their golden goose in life, that's what they're gonna want
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to That's what I mean. That literally a byproduct of
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Fox News. We see this with Fox News. That is
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how they have developed their audience and fan base. If
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you believe that the black woman across the street driving
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the Mercedes Benz is the reason why you know, you
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know you're on food stamps, You're going to seek out
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sources that confirm that, not challenge that.
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And that's what confirmation bias exactly. And that is a
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good point. But it's also the reason why, you know,
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we have to get more media literacy. I feel like
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wherever the media goes in the next two three five years,
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the consumer of media, which is me and you, but
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also everyone else that's not a journalist, they've got to
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learn how to read between the headlines. They've got to
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learn how to figure it out because it's just information overload.
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Yeah, and we're up against AI as well. I talk
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to my parents, my aunts, and my uncles every day
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because this technology is moving faster than we are, and
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you know, the videos and the content, it is becoming
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like I've had to pause, like I've been fooled by
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things like kid videos and it's like that's AI, like
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those little cute kins, that's AI. And so we are
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in over our heads right now because there's no regulation
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on any of that stuff. So we're in over our
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heads and that part.
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See, that's the other thing aside from the fact, and
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there's other things I want to get into, but aside
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from the fact that newsrooms have these strict things for
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their reporters and they claim that they're objective, I don't
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think they are. I think we can only see the
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world for sure. But at least they're trying to be fair.
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You got to be fair. But at the same time,
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not only hot to take people can say anything. The
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actual Internet doesn't have an FCC. Right you're a radio
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person or a TV person, you've got to deal with
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Federal Communications Commission. They can find you, they can take
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your license, which is what you were talking about with ABC.
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YouTube doesn't have that.
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Yeah, you know, and if you're doing independent radio, like
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I mean, look at Rush Limbaugh and the cult following
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he had Alex Jones and info Wars Like these people
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are not You know, if you've got your website and
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your audience, you can say and do whatever you want
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to for the most part.
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Should that change? Will that change? I mean, will we
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regulate information news and information on the internet?
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You know what? I hope? So, because I do wonder
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where we're going to go, Like as far as like
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news networks, how are they vetting sources? Like I feel
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like it's an extra step now, Like how do you
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break news and make sure that the video that's sent
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to the station is real? Like, how are you vetting that?
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I also think of Nolan Wells, the Black Team that
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was that died in Mississippi a few weeks ago. There
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was an AI video of his mom that was not
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real while and so it's like, while she's simultaneously and
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while this community is grieving the loss of this young boy,
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they're also having to come out and say, hey, that's
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not me. And when I saw a clip of the video,
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it looks hyper realistic, and she's like sitting at a table. Oh,
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it's hyper realistic, and she's like, I'm not going to
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have I've decided I'm not going to have a funeral
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for my son. And it's very measured and it doesn't
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seem stoic or like to the naked eye. If you
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don't know, then it's it's enough.
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To raise eyebrows.
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Yeah, And why I think that people? I think it's
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part of the attention economy because like, you can create
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that video and take it to Meta, and because there's
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no checks and balances at Meta, you can get a
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check from that. It's going to circulate, It's going to
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go viral, whether it's people like you and I calling
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it out or people spreading it like, oh my gosh,
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why would his mom?
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Not?
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Like you're going to generate income from that. And I think,
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you know, on platforms like Meta, on platforms like X,
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that is what's encouraging people to be bad faith actors
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in the journalism ecosystem, and it's interrupting and messing up
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so much. And so I do wonder. I am a
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little fearful as we move forward what that looks like,
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especially particularly with everything going on in this current administration,
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because I think it's gonna take a while to get
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us back on track or to get some semblance of
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normalcy that we once knew.
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I mean the fact that the View is being investigated
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for not giving equal time politically, yeah, but Fox News
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isn't make it make sense.
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And beyond the View, there are local ABC stations that
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are on the chopping block, like my local back home WLS,
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which is Chicago's ABC affiliate. It's like, you have until
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July twenty ninth scanned this QR code and you know,
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like as a fan, like, let the FCC know how
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much you appreciate your local ABC station. And I'm like, well,
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if they take ABC off of you know, in Chicago,
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if Channel seven is an ABC, what are they going
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to replace it with? Like? What then will it be?
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You know news?
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You know? Yeah, Newsmax Yeah?
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Yeah, my goodness, you.
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Know, because right now there's a couple of outlets that
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make Fox News look almost liberal yeah, which is wild.
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Yeah. And a couple of independent I won't even call
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them journalists, they are I guess thought leaders or opinion
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hosts that are on the such on the fringes that
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they do make Fox News look moderate or liberal with
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with some of their When I think of Nick Fuentez
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and Candice Owens, and I don't want to give them
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airtime here, but you know, there there's certain personalities that
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have a chokehold on on on on those airways, even
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the likes of Megan Kelly, who built up a trusted audience,
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Like this woman is an attorney and was a host,
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and we saw what happened with NBC and now she is,
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you know, totally rogue doing her own thing, but saying
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the most every time I see a clip of her
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saying something, it is the most like fringe, like what
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happened to her? Like she's always been compromised. But it's
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like these people are jumping off the deep end.
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Right, And so I mean, we can talk about this
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when we come forward. You got news, traffic, and sports
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right here. Don't get me started on the Black Information Network.
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I might lose my job. But look, I mean the
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question of how is the Internet regulated? These are these
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public utilities? They are public air? Are they public airwaves?
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Shouldn't they have to follow rules just like other purveyors
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of information. We'll talk about that and more. Char Jozelle
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is here. I'm Dominique di Prima and this is KBLA
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Talk fifteen eight. Yeah. We I mean we're talking with
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Chard Jozelle, the president of the National Association of Black Journalists,
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Los Angeles, and it is it's a rough environment. So
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you said, yes, you think they should be regulated. We
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agree on that. It doesn't seem right that that. I
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don't want to say mainstream because we're not mainstream. We're
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independent journalists, but we're still regulated. This station still regulated
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by the FCC that we're competing with these folks who
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it's wild wild West. So I mean, is there any
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is there a push among journalists like how would that
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even happen? We would need a different administration.
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I'm guessing we would need a different administration. And we
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also need fearless leaders. We need fearless people that are
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working behind the scenes as these executives in these boardrooms,
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and a lot of the times they don't look like
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you and I. A lot of the times the talent
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could look like you and I, but the people, you know,
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the higher up you climb, they don't look like you
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and I. And so I think that it's going to
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have to work in tandem. It can't just be reporters
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and personalities and journalists fighting for this. It's going to
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take for executives and network presidents to really dig their
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heels in the sand.
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And lawmakers too, I think, yes, sure, yeah. You know
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who made the rule that the FCC overseas broadcast TV
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and radio. It was lawmakers. Yeah. I feel like they're
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a little bit I could be wrong, but I feel
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like they're a little bit scared of big big tech.
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Yeah, brologarchy. Yeah, well, because the brologarchy is unregulated.
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Right, you know, and they want to stay that.
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Way and they they most certainly, and they probably will
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for at least right now. But yeah, it's one of
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those things where people are gonna have to stand firm
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in their convictions and and really get a backbone. You know,
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I did, you know, tip my hat. I want to
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give NBC, and I think it was CNN and ABC
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their credit. Last Thursday when the Orange Man did his speech,
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they chose not to air it, and I said, finally,
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you know, they've been airing all of the stuff unchecked
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and unchallenged thus far, and so I just think that,
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as the TikTok kids would say, the saxophones are getting louder,
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you know, that's the trend. And I really, just, like
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I said, I applaud those three networks because I was like,
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finally they're doing something. They're making some sort of you know,
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editorial decision, some sort of newsroom decision to not amplify
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this fraudulent messaging around election interference. And you know what
410
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is it? The twenty twenty election was stolen?
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Yeah, you know, well, I mean that press conference, which
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I unfortunately ended up watching, was such a hot mess
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and it was all rehashed. But then what does the
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president do? He threatens NBCABC and CNN, saying that the
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FCC should take away their broadcast license at a time
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when we have not just a Republican but a real
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zealot and Brendan Carr. He's not just your garden variety Republican.
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No, no, no, no no. And I mean to your earlier point,
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the FCC is not supposed to be a partisan organization.
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And so yeah, right now, I don't even think, you know,
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it's necessarily the Orange Man, it's the Heritage Foundation. And
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so those are the most extreme of the extreme that
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have weaseled their way into every branch of government, and
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those are the people that are being the foot soldiers
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for this particular agenda of censorship and surveillance. And it's
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it's scary. It's a little scary. You know, the FBI
427
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is raiding journalists home homes for for reporting things. You know,
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So it's we're in a weird, weird and I mean.
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To me, that reminds me of authoritarian governments. It reminds
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me of what they tell us happens in Russia. You know,
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I haven't viewed it with my own eyes. It's what
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they say happens in authoritarian regimes, and they're doing it.
433
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Yeah.
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And so you know, the Department of Justice, what a
435
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:44.880
week ago, subpoenas some New York Times journalists for reporting
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on the jet.
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The Katari jet that they're trying to replace Air Force
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One with, because the man in the White House was
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pissed that that that league they're even they had to
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come out. And I just learned, Yester, because the New
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York Times there were some reporters that were reporting on
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the fatalities and injury injuries of soldiers over in overseas
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in the war with Iran, and that's when the Pentagon
444
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had to release official numbers. But they are livid at
445
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like they're trying to keep us distracted. Of course, and.
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Because that war is very unpopular, it.
447
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Is very unnecessary and it is illegal. Congress did not approve.
448
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For us to go to wars and I think close
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to forty billions so far. So yes, so you're getting
450
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a subpoena for doing a story. Yeah, And as you said,
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FBI raiding, I mean, what do we as individual journalists,
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what does the NABJ like suggest, If there is a suggestion,
453
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how are we meant to be pushing back against this
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kind of repression? What can you actually do?
455
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I think people are still figuring it out. I know,
456
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even as President, I'm still a little rattled about how
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Georgia Fort and Don Lemon were arrested earlier this year.
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Don Lemon, you know here in Los Angeles at a
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Grammy party, you know, it was heading back up to
460
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his hotel room when he was accosted by ice and
461
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.480
hearing their first hand account of what something like that
462
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was like. I think that everybody's still trying to figure
463
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it out. Because we're at a precarious situation, like because
464
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we're at the intersections of blackness and journalism. I think
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that that adds an additional layer of how do we
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protect ourselves? And I think everybody's figuring out what that
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looks like for themselves. I don't think there's one blanket
468
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answer I could offer for that.
469
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Yeah. No, I mean I think you're right, we're figuring
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it out. But I like to bring it up because
471
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all of us need to crowdsource our brains on this.
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It is scary. I've decided that, Oh well, I'm just
473
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going to keep talking. Yeah, I've decided I'm going to
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be brave, even if I don't feel like it. But
475
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just I like to remind our KBLA delegation, I am
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not suicidal if I go, am I in prison or
477
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.640
you know, I didn't want to be there. Yeah, how
478
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do you deal with that? I mean, you're in some
479
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:18.839
sense a more high profile target, you know, as a
480
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:24.640
president of NABJ and also you know an activist and
481
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:28.440
GLAD and other organizations like that. How do you deal
482
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:30.880
what's your way of dealing with that fear?
483
00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:34.000
I mean, I try to just focus on what's in
484
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.440
front of me right now, because I can be quite
485
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:39.279
the projector of like, oh my gosh, this is happening,
486
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:40.799
so this will happen in this and then as a
487
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:44.240
student of news I and a student of the world. Rather,
488
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.920
I do struggle with differentiating like the world's truths versus
489
00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:52.759
my lived experience in my truth and pattern recognition within that.
490
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.559
But sometimes it gets hard to differentiate the two because
491
00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.359
I'm constantly reading headlines. I'm constantly you know, report and
492
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.359
writing on things and you know, and then I'm getting
493
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:06.680
the opinion journalism from you know, the Instagram and TikTok
494
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.000
and this looks like nineteen thirty three Germany and things.
495
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:12.920
And so while I can entertain those thoughts, I just
496
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:14.920
have to focus on what's in front of me right now.
497
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.880
And that might not be the smartest course of action
498
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:20.440
for some people, but for me, it's what's keeping my
499
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:21.759
feet planted on the ground.
500
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.839
Well, it's what the Buddhists tell us. There's what the
501
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.440
mindfulness experts tell us to do, right, be present.
502
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.759
Yeah, but I'm just like you, like I'm forging forward.
503
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:33.039
I'm not gonna you know, cower. I'm going to forge
504
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:36.839
forward and keep doing my job until you know, whatever
505
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:38.200
is whatever on that I.
506
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.160
To be well stocked.
507
00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:40.839
Oh yes, oh yes.
508
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:46.319
I'm also seeing that the New York Times reported I
509
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:49.559
hadn't seen this that the Trump administration has now issued
510
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:53.240
third party subpoenas. They want communications not only from the
511
00:28:53.319 --> 00:28:57.519
journalist phones. They want text messages of their relatives, their spouses,
512
00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:01.279
oh my, and their parents. So they're brought the investigation.
513
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.480
And this is around that Katari jet story, which seems
514
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.079
almost like a it doesn't even seem like this kind
515
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.799
of story that would get you in trouble. We're reporting on.
516
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.440
Because he's embarrassed. That's literally all this is is a
517
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:16.599
bruised ego because he's embarrassed.
518
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:20.480
Yeah, but that I mean scary. You're going to go
519
00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:24.240
after my mama? Yeah, because of a story I wrote that.
520
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:27.240
And it's sending a message to every other journalist, whether
521
00:29:27.240 --> 00:29:29.640
you're backed by an institution like the New York Times,
522
00:29:29.720 --> 00:29:33.480
or you're an independent or citizen or freelance journalist, it
523
00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.200
is sending a message to all of us. If you
524
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.160
don't can't have the institutional protection of a of a
525
00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:42.119
of a publication like the New York Times, it's like
526
00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:45.000
you might want to think twice about updating your blog.
527
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:48.960
Independent journalists, you know who's gonna protect you. And it's scary,
528
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.440
but I think that we all have a responsibility to
529
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.359
keep doing our jobs because where there's a will, there's
530
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:57.279
a way, and there are still judges there are still attorneys,
531
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.160
There are still systems of power that are still for
532
00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:04.440
the people. I do believe that not everybody has been
533
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.279
bought and sold. A lot of them have, but I
534
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:09.000
don't think everybody has.
535
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.559
Yeah, that's fair. And and then I also would add
536
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:14.960
that we are the storytellers. That's what we do. We
537
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.720
are you know, you call it a cold of a
538
00:30:16.759 --> 00:30:21.200
personality or you know, the charisma, the whatever it is,
539
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:24.519
whether you're writing on a keyboard or talking on a
540
00:30:24.519 --> 00:30:27.599
micro Ye, we are the storytellers. And so you're not
541
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:29.319
going to out storytell.
542
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.920
Us and you're not going to intimidate us, right.
543
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:35.079
I know. It's almost like I see some of some
544
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.880
members of the mainstream media are a little bit semi
545
00:30:39.039 --> 00:30:42.119
radicalized in terms of like they're going, wait a minute,
546
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:46.240
you know, they're a little illusion about everything being fair
547
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:48.680
and balanced is starting to.
548
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:54.240
Get Look what's happening with CBS with Barry Weiss in charge,
549
00:30:54.279 --> 00:30:57.000
Like it's scary. There have been journalists that have left.
550
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.839
There have been executive producers I believe of sixty minutes
551
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:05.000
have left because they're being pressured by the higher ups
552
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:09.279
to you know, bury the truth or put one side
553
00:31:09.319 --> 00:31:11.079
of a story out and they're like, this is not
554
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.480
what I stand for. I look at even like Elizabeth
555
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:17.319
hesselback of all people, is now on CBS this morning,
556
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:19.799
I'm squinting it, like how Gail is doing? Like how
557
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.599
you doing, Gail? You know, like I'm squinting because that
558
00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:25.599
has been a total overhaul since the Ellison family has
559
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:29.480
has has taken and Barry Weiss has has taken charge
560
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:30.240
of that network.
561
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:34.079
And to your point, Barry Weiss has no almost no
562
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.680
experience in jobs to be put in charge of a
563
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:40.920
newsroom when you're basically a conservative influencer. It's crazy word
564
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:42.160
it is, it is.
565
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:46.359
But she will be the foot soldier of the work
566
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.079
that the Ellison family and the Heritage Foundation and the
567
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:54.119
Trump administration once done. I only scratch my head because
568
00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:55.720
like a lot of people that I know amongst my
569
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.880
generation that watch CBS are watching it for like big Brother,
570
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.359
like entertainment, CBS News. I always view have viewed CBS
571
00:32:04.359 --> 00:32:08.000
News as like an older like a more mature.
572
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.759
Yeah, it's like the old guy of the networks. Yeah.
573
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.240
So I don't know what type of influence that would
574
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:18.519
have on you know, the general public if there's you know,
575
00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:20.839
eighty year olds watching the news. I don't know what
576
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.400
you know what I'm saying, they're not They're not getting
577
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:25.839
gen Z at CBS News.
578
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:30.240
But also it's just you know, it's indicative of not
579
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:33.680
only they're doing the bidding of the Ellison family, yeah,
580
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.319
who are now the owners, but also the direct influence
581
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:41.000
of the president. Like those sixty minute stories. It was like, no,
582
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.359
that's not Trump doesn't want that. Yeah, so now the
583
00:32:44.400 --> 00:32:50.160
President is controlling the chief of I mean directly controlling.
584
00:32:50.200 --> 00:32:52.960
We know they've influence in the past, was more implied.
585
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.160
This is direct, Yeah, and even with all of the
586
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.000
networks I interviewed a few weeks ago, I interviewed Miss
587
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.799
Pat and Jordany Cooper for the Miss Patch Show. And
588
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.240
if you watch the Miss Patch Show that once was
589
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.440
on BT plus, because you know that's ended and they
590
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:12.359
folded all of BT's programming into Paramount Plus. I asked them, like, well,
591
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.240
the show and the very specific writing that the Miss
592
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.599
Patch Show has, is that going to be compromised moving
593
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:21.160
forward because it's not on BT plus it's now folded
594
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.440
into Paramount Plus. And this was the same week that
595
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:27.599
Paramount Plus had platformed the UFC fight on the White
596
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:31.200
House lawn when that one fighter insulted our forever first
597
00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:34.519
Lady Michelle Obama. And so I'm like, how is some
598
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:37.359
of this programming going to co exist on this platform
599
00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.359
when shows like The Mispatch Show are kind of pushing
600
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.880
up against some of some of these ideas, And I know,
601
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.759
like RuPaul's drag races on Paramount Plus, Like I just wonder,
602
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:53.559
like the censorship and well potential censorship, Like, how are
603
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.920
those things, those ideas going to coexist when the Ellison
604
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.640
family is at the helms of Paramount.
605
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:02.039
Right And you know, of course I'm over here saying
606
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:06.079
to me Bari or Barry Weiss, whatever her name is,
607
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:10.079
Barry Barry Weiss, in charge of a CBS newsroom with
608
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.039
no experience in the news, Lindsey Graham's sister Darlene Graham
609
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:19.079
now becoming going for US Senate on a permanent basis.
610
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.840
This is DEI and it's dynasty building. It's that's what
611
00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:24.559
they're trying to do.
612
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.440
Yeah, dynasty building indeed.
613
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:28.760
Indeed, and I also pushed back against the de I
614
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.639
claim because DEI you still have to be qualified. But
615
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.440
I get, like, you know, fighting fire with fire, because
616
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.000
they are correct how they frame DEI is like, you
617
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.719
just get ushered in based on identity politics. So I
618
00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:43.199
get saying that like she's a DEI higher, she's unqualified,
619
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:46.159
and it's like, what is going on? You know, And
620
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.039
where's Mitch McConnell while we're on the topic, you know, Yeah,
621
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:50.599
well I was.
622
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:54.440
Thinking more dead employees initiatives. No, but you're right, oh
623
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:57.920
for DI No, But you're right to push back because
624
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:00.280
that's one of my pet peeves about p But when
625
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.000
they describe deid I doesn't mean they give you a job, right,
626
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:04.920
It means you get to know about the job, so
627
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:07.679
you also get to apply if you are qualified.
628
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.159
But that goes hand in hand with how the influence works.
629
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:15.159
They have bastardized language like DDI and bastardized language like
630
00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:18.280
woke in all these different types of things where it's
631
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:20.679
like we can't even a lot of us are even
632
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:22.800
hesitant to use it in the way that it's intended
633
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:25.960
because they have been so successful in their messaging with
634
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:30.039
ruining the term and ruining the word and so yeah, yeah.
635
00:35:29.639 --> 00:35:32.960
Well we got work to do. Char Jozelle is here.
636
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:37.239
She is the president current president of nabj LA. She's
637
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.280
a journalist award winning journalist and much more. We'll continue
638
00:35:40.280 --> 00:35:44.239
the conversation only right here. All right, I'm gonna have
639
00:35:44.320 --> 00:35:48.119
you put on your National Association of Black Journalists hat
640
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:52.239
for a moment, chargozell. If somebody wants to join, if
641
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:55.760
they're a journalist and they want to join, or if
642
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.679
they're not a journalist and they want to support, what
643
00:35:58.760 --> 00:35:59.400
should they do.
644
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:04.280
To visit nabj LA dot org. And you know, the
645
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:09.559
umbrella is expanded for our organization. We have publicists that
646
00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:12.639
are members. We even have influencers that our members, so
647
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.920
it's not as linear, you know, it's still the foundation
648
00:36:17.159 --> 00:36:19.800
is journalism, I want to be clear, but journalism is
649
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:23.039
you know, a living word. It is evolving and shaping,
650
00:36:23.079 --> 00:36:24.440
and we want to keep up with the times and
651
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:28.000
make sure that we have comprehensive personal and professional development
652
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:32.360
and workshops that you know, training journalists and AI tools
653
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.320
and website building. But we also have our fun. Last
654
00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:37.199
night we had a trivia night. It was so fun
655
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.000
just for like you know, community building. It was so
656
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:41.039
much fun. I love that.
657
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:44.000
And here you are in the morning. Yes, yes, so
658
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.039
nabj dot RG.
659
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.159
Yes, and the nabj l A nabj LA dot og
660
00:36:50.360 --> 00:36:51.599
okay and then for.
661
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:55.880
You know, you brought up Don Lemon and Georgia Fort
662
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:59.360
who was on this show and not at all coincidentally,
663
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:02.239
the Department of Justice also arrested I don't know, a
664
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:04.760
bunch of other people who are all Black Lives Matter
665
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:10.360
grassroots activists. Yeah, how can we? Is there a journalists fund?
666
00:37:10.519 --> 00:37:13.480
Is there a way to support people that are because
667
00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.119
those cases are still pending. I think Don Lemon is
668
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:18.880
probably fine, but Georgia's a goodness.
669
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:22.519
Yeah, with so that would be within a BJ like
670
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:27.199
the National Organization. There are tons of grants and funds
671
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:31.599
that are allotted to journalists who are compromised right now,
672
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.800
especially you know with the sweeping layoffs that are taking place,
673
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:38.719
and so NABJ, the National Organization, their website they have
674
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:41.679
if you click around, there are all different types of resources,
675
00:37:41.719 --> 00:37:45.199
particularly to your point, like speaking to those sort of
676
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:47.840
financial safety nets that oftentimes.
677
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:51.159
We need and these sweeping layoffs that you're talking about.
678
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.280
It's mostly black journalists, right, yeah.
679
00:37:54.400 --> 00:38:00.119
I mean when I chat with AAJA and and other
680
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:04.119
organizations there skips excuse me, it's so early, like it's
681
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:08.960
skipping my mind in LGJA, in AHJ. It appears, you know,
682
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.039
they're layoffs there. But in a bj L, A has
683
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:16.599
been disproportionately affected here in the city of Los Angeles,
684
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:18.840
in this blue bubble, you know, as people would say,
685
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.320
we have been disproportionally affected with layoffs, with a majority
686
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.840
of my members being freelancers and not in newsrooms or
687
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:28.360
consistently in newsrooms.
688
00:38:28.360 --> 00:38:32.000
And so yeah, aa JA being the Asian America.
689
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:36.320
Yes, and then there's the Hispanic one. And then in LGJA,
690
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:39.440
which is the LGBT one. There's a few different organizations
691
00:38:39.480 --> 00:38:43.199
that we coalition build with and that we have chatted with,
692
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.599
and majority, at least from my vantage point, in a
693
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.679
bj LA, the Black Journalists Association has been disproportionally affected
694
00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:55.000
with by layoffs in the greater Los Angeles.
695
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.840
We're out of style because DEI has now become me.
696
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:00.559
We can get rid of black.
697
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:03.079
People and even black people that weren't hired under d
698
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:05.280
I think we're just swept up in that dustman.
699
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:08.639
What's what you were saying about terminology? Now, d I
700
00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.599
just means a black person. Yep, yep, it's the word.
701
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.360
Actually, if you are my co worker, it is inherently
702
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.559
by de I. I feel like that is the the.
703
00:39:18.199 --> 00:39:20.199
Yeah, that's how that's what they that's what they do
704
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:23.119
with language. It's as you said, it's very effective. I've
705
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:26.480
even noticed it on some of the more left leaning networks.
706
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.320
MSNBC has a couple of shows, No More Black People, Okay,
707
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:31.360
got it.
708
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:33.960
It's happening, and it's very sad. We'll be back though,
709
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:36.679
it's very we will. But it's very sad because we
710
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:39.239
need to eat, and we need health insurance, and we
711
00:39:39.320 --> 00:39:41.920
need money, and so many of us are so talented
712
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.960
and bright and love the field of journalism. It is
713
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:47.199
so deeply unfair what's happening right now?
714
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:52.079
Indeed, it is char jozol Man. Time flies. Okay, it's
715
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:54.880
time for Tavis Smiley. Tell us real quick, your handle.
716
00:39:55.480 --> 00:39:58.119
I'm you can find me everywhere at Shar says so
717
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:01.079
that Shar with a S says so. And that's across
718
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any and all social media platforms. You can find me.
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So come say hi.
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It's time for the Tavis Smiley Show and it's gonna
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be a good one today. So we are passing the mic.
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Like my mama, the late great poet laureate Diane da Prima,
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used to say, the ultimate famine is the starvation of
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the imagination. Until next time, my KBLA delegation, one love,