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Welcome to Fiery Fams, the podcast where high-achieving women build wealth, redesign their careers, and create lives with real freedom.
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I'm Sheena, an accredited investor, former tech sales professional and the founder of Fiery Femmes.
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After a decade across global SaaS, startups, and my own reinventions, I realized the most powerful thing a woman can have is optionality.
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So in every episode, we explore the future of work, the psychology of wealth, and the practical strategies that help women build careers and lives that evolve as fast as they do.
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Um, who is um Lucy from Tap the Gap?
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Hi everyone, my name is Lucy Keogh, and I'm the founder of Tap the Gap, which uh is a tech company essentially helping women build wealth while they shop.
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Yeah.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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It's so aligned and it's while they shop as well.
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So tell us about the mechanisms of that.
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Yeah, great.
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So look, the way the product works is pretty simple, and there's three parts to it.
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So the first one is we connect to your bank, and every single time you use that connected um bank account, we round up every purchase to the nearest dollar, two dollars, or five dollars.
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So that means you might go and buy a coffee for$4.50, and that 50 cents gets rounded up and we sweep that money into your super.
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So that's on every single transaction, and that money is direct debited three times a week.
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So you hardly kind of feel it.
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It's like a you know, a dollar here or there.
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The second way that the app works is what's called brand bonus, and that's where we have over 275 brands on the platform.
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And when you shop with them, you get a gift from them into your super.
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So it's usually a percentage of the fee.
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So I might buy a shirt like this at the iconic and I pay$100 for it, and 5% of that would come back and we sweep that money into your super.
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So you've got a combination of your own money on every single purchase, and then a combination of money coming from the brands when you shop with them.
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And the last part of our product is education because we've found that a little bit of education bit by bit really helps grow confidence for women in that world of financial um literacy.
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And so, yeah, we deliver micro learning um little bits at a time to help women feel more confident with their superannuation and their attitude towards investing.
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Huge and amazing work.
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Uh I know how much it takes to build in a regulated environment, such as uh tap a gap in health tech, wealth tech.
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So well done.
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I I I can imagine you have the battle scars along the way.
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Oh yeah, yeah, there's some stories, but you know, like that's uh Well, I have written a book before because I come from a writing background.
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So maybe there'll be another book in me after I after I, you know, get to the other side of this thing.
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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I can just imagine.
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And Lucy, before we get into the nitty-gree of things, I would love to know what is something that is not what's something about you that is not list listed on your LinkedIn profile.
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Ooh, this is a good question, actually.
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I guess what I guess what's not there is you can see that I've worked in a world of advertising and then that I've built this kind of startup.
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But I guess what's not really described there in detail is my knowledge and growth around super, right?
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And how I went from this non-financial person to becoming an expert in superannuation.
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Like it's sort of a bit weird, right?
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And look, we we have it there, but really I don't explain to people that journey, which is I actually didn't know anything about super really until about three years ago, three, four years ago.
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And it was working in the category when you're a creative in advertising and you have to sell something, you have to understand it intricately.
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And you have to understand it so well that you can communicate it to someone who doesn't know anything about it.
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So what people probably don't understand from my LinkedIn profile is that, yeah, I don't come from a wealth background.
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I've actually learnt all of this and I've or um, I guess my human lens to the experience and yeah, everything I've learned, I'm now putting into tap the gap.
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So I am a a super guru, but that's self-taught, you know, 10,000 hours, don't they say?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And sometimes when it's actually your personal story, your personal interest, and you apply all that muscle into like learning, it's so much more effective because you have that personal interest in it as well.
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So that's really incredible that you're now a superannuation guru.
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And can I ask what happened along the way when during your time at advertising that you were like, wow, that there's so much to learn.
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I want to share this with everyone else as well.
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Yeah, okay, great.
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Yeah, great question actually.
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Um, because I don't often think about that as much now, you know, as we're building and moving forward all the time.
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I think when I first got approached to come back to the agency I was working at, I'd worked there earlier in my career.
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They're a fantastic place to work.
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They came back and said, Look, we want you to lead this super account and we want you to do everything from brand right through to member comms.
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And that was kind of unusual for creative directors to work across the full gamut.
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And most people sort of looked and went, super fun.
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It's like that's a bit dull.
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And I looked at it really with, you know, real interest.
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I'm like, well, if we can take a category that's really dull, the only way is up, right?
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And so there's a lot of room for improvement there.
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Um and I think people don't consider that sort of like a sexy thing, you know, like they want to work on beer advertising or, you know, supermarkets or something.
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But I think if you reframe it to be, well, the opp what is the opportunity here?
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And that's like limitless.
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That's where I kind of dug in, right?
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And I took it on board as my own learning and self-discovery, you know, rather than feeling like a job.
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So yeah, as I was going and talking to lots of people about this, it was probably just a real self-discovery for myself, as well as working, if that makes sense.
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And I started to grow my confidence and I could see, well, what if everyone could do this?
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Right?
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Like just little by little, because you don't understand everything about super and investing, you would know straight away.
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And if you try and get someone to even think that they can do that, they'll just be turned off, you know?
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They'll be like, oh, it's a bit overwhelming, it's a bit too much, it feels too serious.
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So I think if, yeah, if I can align my journey of working for three and a half years on not really knowing anything about it to where I am now, that's what I'm trying to emulate in Tap the Gap.
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Absolutely.
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And uh, it's incredible because of course when you run accounts and you you don't really know anything about, or or maybe you you know bits and pieces, you want to make sure that like you're credible.
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So you've researched a lot about superannuation and just make sure that when you're talking to your to your account that you actually care.
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So you've cared so much and have done your due diligence, extra work, extra homework to make sure that you understand their industry as well.
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Yeah, and and that's a really good point, actually, because you have to understand both sides.
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Like you have to understand the industry and the challenges that the super companies face, right?
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Like they've got a huge responsibility in terms of legal compliance, all of the reporting they do.
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Then, you know, the marketing team is only one part of that.
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Then you've got the product team and you've got the consumer.
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So I think my experience was actually I'm not sitting on one side, I could see all of it.
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And that's kind of unusual because normally you have someone, you know, at a super fund, like they're really living in that world all the time, and they probably don't have as much of an understanding as, you know, as we might, as people far on the outside world.
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I mean, the marketers do, obviously.
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But yeah, it's really interesting to understand all those facets, right?
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Because it's not as simple as just doing an ad campaign.
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It's really understanding fundamentally where the industry sits, you know, what are the challenges broadly with the industry?
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What's the history of the industry?
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Where's it going?
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Um, and that's probably what really excited me by not only understanding just a kind of thing from a communications point of view, but from a business point of view, what is this institution and how is it built?
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And what is kind of fundamentally wrong, like at that structural level.
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So yeah, yeah, I really that's a great question that you that you asked.
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I think it's great that you're in the an unusual space because I I think that's where usually where the opportunities lie as well.
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The unusual gray space.
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And again, like kudos to I was I was talking to someone earlier today, and I'm like, I question myself on like choosing this space because it's so regulated that I feel I need to be very careful with what I say, what and also like I am not providing personal advice at all.
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I usually refer people who do have those very specific nitigrity to advisors that I know that I've worked with, but absolutely no advice coming from my end.
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No financial advice.
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Like same here, we're general.
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Yeah, we're general advice.
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But I I think what's interesting about that, even as part of this journey, is you know, general advice, it is important.
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You need to understand the parameters of it, but literally translating what is factual advice into information that people can actually understand, that becomes classified as general advice.
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And I I found that really fascinating to start with.
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I'm like, oh, so just so that I can explain soup art to someone so they can actually understand it, I need to have a license, you know?
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And look, there's areas within that, right?
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Because I understand now better than I did when I started why I need that regulation, because you know, these are really important things.
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This is someone's life savings that they're putting money into.
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And that's really serious business.
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But I do find, I don't know, I just find there's great tension in the fact that, you know, in order to help everyday people, yeah, I had to jump through so many hoops to get there.
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And ordinarily, like, I feel like that's the responsibility of our government, right?
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Like, but no one is doing this job.
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We have the ATO and who enjoys reading the ATO website, yes, it's informative, but do people understand it?
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No.
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And that's why we've got this massive gap and this chasm of lack of engagement because our systems and our infrastructure isn't there delivering on what I believe is the responsibility of the government, right?
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
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So someone has to take on the responsibility and this is you.
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I don't right now.
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I'm like, yeah, we could I maybe could have thought that through a little bit more, but uh Yeah, it is, but I do have people saying that to me, you know, like customers who say, Isn't this the government's responsibility?
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And I said, well, yes, you might frame it like that.
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And, you know, people in government have got a big job to do, right?
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Like a huge job.
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And that's not dissing them.
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I think politicians are are amazing in what they can achieve.
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And, you know, particularly our government right now have achieved great things for women in terms of uh equality, and there's huge changes happening in super as well.
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But I think there's there's yeah, there is this expectation that someone else is going to do that, and there's just such parameters around, you know, the bigger institutions, particularly the super funds, they can't move at speed and they can't, they've got all these other things to do, if that makes sense.
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So if that's why if we're like, can we focus on that niche of just engaging people in super and helping them build their confidence?
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Then we can be one part of a broader ecosystem, you know?
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Like I don't want to become a super fund.
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I don't want to take over that job from anyone.
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I'm like, you do you, but we're really focused on engaging more people in this, you know, in this sector, which yeah, needs needs to be treated as the sexy thing it is, which it's not right now.
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Yes.
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I think the rebrand uh or I guess in your category that's sexier for superannuation, definitely I'm all for it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Well, we've got a camp, we've got an ad campaign coming out soon.
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So yeah, yeah, keep an eye on that, um, which will be great.
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That will sort of really shit the category, I think.
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Yeah, I I I'll keep my eyes peeled.
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I'm super excited for that.
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And look, Lucy, obviously we we are online on a lot of things, especially on economic power with women and financial literacy for women.
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Yesterday I had a call with um a founder, and I told him about the start of there's actually more women over 55 is the growing, growing population for homelessness in Australia, and I think more most in like the Western world as well.
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And he was so surprised.
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And I was just like, I thought this is like a a fact that everyone knows, but it's not.
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So I guess one of the things that I'd love to talk to you about is around like economic power and about how women usually have the budget, but for some reason along the way, there's some mishaps that happen.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's so strange, right?
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It it's a similar story, I think, to, you know, you see girls ahead of the class, you know, in school, and yet, you know, they don't they graduate and they don't take the jobs sort of in the workforce, even though they've been those high achievers.
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So what I'd probab probably say is there's a real disparity in the way that women engage in our economy overall, right?
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Because if you look at things, ultimately, women make 80% of the purchase decisions.
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Now, that's in a household, it's 86% in the United States.
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That is a huge amount of economic power, right?
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And but you we see women are ending their lives having done all that purchase power, and you know, they're becoming homeless and they're retiring with less.
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So it's a really interesting, like just crux we find ourselves in to say, well, actually, you know, you can get annoyed about it, the fact that women are retiring with less and we don't get paid as much and all this, but we have a huge economic power sitting right right at our doorstep, and we're not making the most of it.
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And that's where tap the gap comes in, because by actually allowing women to continue to make those decisions, but every time they do put money in their future wealth, we're kind of hacking this system, right?
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And a lot of people haven't thought about that.
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There's definitely a lot of narrative around the wealth gap, the super gap in particular, and it's all about a deficit.
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But I think that we don't look at the optimism story, right?
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Which is what we can do.
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Like, where is our power?
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We need to stand in our power and go, hey, cool, I'm making that decision.
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I'm deciding really which car we buy.
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I'm, you know, deciding on insurance.
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I know which supermarket we're gonna shop at.
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Like this is powerful stuff.
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And I think women for themselves need to reframe that and go, yeah, cool, I'm gonna use this to my advantage rather than just being taken along and and spat out towards the end of the system, you know?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I remembered some of my friends went to Japan and they were so surprised because they the waiters give the bill to the woman.
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So Oh my gosh, I love that.
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That's so cool.
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Have you been to Japan?
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I have, but I've only spent a few days over there as a stopover, and I didn't, that's not something I picked up.
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Wow.
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So they were a couple, and then they were like, one thing that really surprised me was usually here in Australia, it would be the husband, like the they they give the bill to the husband or to the man.
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But in Japan, they give the bill to the woman because they know that it's the woman who controls the funds.
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Like they they do the budget.
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And I was like, that's so interesting.
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I love this.
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There is a social post in this, I can see that.
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And like that's yeah, that's really fascinating.
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And I think what's so interesting about that is, and it's something I spoke about at Vogue Codes recently, is that um one of the questions Charlie asked me was about, you know, women and shopping and retail has always been kind of deemed as quite frivolous.
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And, you know, women are like, we're having retail therapy, and you know, we're we've been made to feel guilty about purchasing things and about buying things, right?
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And I just love that we can flip that and say, stop feeling guilty.
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Start feeling powerful because that's what you can do, right?
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Like that is where your power is.
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And so we don't have to fit around a system where creating a new one around the way that we already live.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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It's like I also saw this post of why are women like getting positioned as like frivolous for like our nails, for the lipstick, for the croissance, like the little treat.
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When I know every maybe I I don't watch sports as much, but some of my friends, my guy friends and husband does, you know, they put like, I don't know, maybe 50 bucks, hundred bucks on like a game.
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I don't know what they bet on.
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But I'm like, yeah, how come that doesn't get talked about?
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And also like on Wall Street Bets, which is like a Reddit subreddit.
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Yeah.
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Have you heard of Wall Street Bets?
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No, no, I'm writing this down.
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Yeah.
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So basically Wall Street Bet is a subreddit where like people, predominantly guys or men, have would gamble their money on specific stocks.
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Stocks, stocks, they'll put call options, put up they'll they'll do uh calls and puts on certain stocks, betting whether they're gonna fail or they're gonna succeed at a price, but they'll put losses, they'll post their losses of like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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Like and it's wild because they kind of like make fun of each other, but I'm just like yeah, so why is that not talked about, right?
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Like exactly, whereas like women are like, you know, like getting making fun of like the girl mask thing, the little treat thing, whereas like some people are literally making losses and posting about that on the internet just for the fun of it, it seems.
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Yeah.
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And do you know what?
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Like, there's so much data that supports the way that women see future wealth creation as well.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:55.039
Like, um, so lots of studies, I mean, with the great wealth transfer, women are going to inherit a higher proportion of the money that's moving from the boomer generation.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.160
And they actually plan differently when it comes to wealth.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:04.640
You know, they're thinking about longevity and their family and you know, what they're actually gonna leave their kids.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.240
And, you know, they have more of a generational lens.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:13.920
They also think about impact and where that where that money is going to be spent, what kind of companies.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:22.559
So there's a real shift in women should really, the the biggest thing I want women to know now is this is your time, right?
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:34.480
Like this actually is your time to stand in that economic power that you have because don't let it kind of wash over you or feel that you're not, you know, strong enough or knowledgeable enough.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:35.279
You've got it.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.279
Like it's it's right there in front of you.
00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:44.000
And you can make these decisions just by building a little bit of confidence, you know, and starting to take small actions.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:52.240
It's fascinating to see even some of our early users who started, you know, maybe five months ago, the actions that they're taking for themselves.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:00.960
Like we had a gorgeous user, Sam, who, you know, quoted the fact that her dad taught her brother about finance when they were growing up, but not her, right?
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.319
And and I don't, I don't think it was intentional.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.600
Like, as do you know what I mean?
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.640
Like intentionally, I'm gonna lock you out of this conversation.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.799
It was just something that naturally happened.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.039
You know, this is the patriarchy at work.
00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:20.000
And so here she is later in life going, hey, I kind of missed out on all of this and I want to make up for it.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:29.840
And, you know, we could see that um, you know, in month four of her tap the gap journey, she did actually change her investment choice in her super and she named a beneficiary.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.240
And, you know, like these are two actions for her wealth building, which are huge.
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:39.360
Like super funds would love that to happen, you know, for their customers.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.559
Um and they might send 10 emails and get no responses.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:50.160
So I think you can see that it is just taking that moment to realize you can empower yourself, right?
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.559
And it doesn't need to be all at once.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:54.559
It's just a couple of little things.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:22:00.000
And that actually sets you up, you know, for b for greater things that you want to do.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.160
And that's really that behavioral lens, I guess, that we're putting on the product.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:09.200
And so, you know, yes, it's a fintech, but it's it's not actually just a set of features.
00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:18.799
It's the way that we're engaging uh and timing these responses to our users in order to sort of grow that confidence, if that makes sense.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:31.759
So yeah, it's how do we weave this experience of building wealth into everyday stuff and everyday habits and everyday actions rather than going, oh, it's something for the future, I'll think about that later.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.759
And then that later becomes too late.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:34.480
Definitely.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.640
And you're touching on the important and beneficial thing about time as well.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:48.960
So if people knew more that like if if only right, like when I was like in my early 20s, that I kind of knew what I know now, right?
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:49.840
Amazing.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:55.519
Even if it was like maybe like five dollars a week or something, like the impact of that would be massive.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.079
Yeah.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.799
Like even just just this idea or compassion.
00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:02.000
Interest, right, is not something we're really taught.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.720
And, you know, I think, I think it's part of one module in year 10 maths.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:17.840
And then superannuation is part of extension maths in year 12, which again to me surprises me because everyone will have a job at some stage, unless you're a trust fund baby.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:23.279
So, you know, these are fundamental skills that our kids in Australia are missing out on, right?
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:29.200
And if they know that, then yeah, they're already ahead of it in in your point that you make.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:36.559
Like in your 20s, putting$5 a week away is going to be better for you than putting in masses more money later down the track.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:52.160
Um yeah, which is it's great to see that, you know, we've got young women using Tap the Gap and actually coming and talking to us, and they're really interested in this stuff because they know that they don't have everything that their grandparents had or even their parents had.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.720
Like the opportunities for them to build wealth are different now.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:02.079
And, you know, property might feel out of reach and you know, that the control that they have is not, yeah, is not exactly where they want to be.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.920
So I do find that really, yeah, really powerful for people to understand these early messages, right?
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:08.640
So good.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:16.079
I I read an article, I think was it this morning, that says that Gen Z is actually out earning millennial women at the same age.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.240
So and I think it's because Gen Z.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.120
Is that a combination like through earnings?
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:26.240
Is that wages alone or just earnings based on investments and wages?
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:35.120
I feel like it might be earnings because I know that uh Gen Z focused on investing in stocks versus like property.
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:42.559
And to be fair, like with millennials, there was like the global financial crisis by the time that millennials like graduated.
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:55.360
There's like just a few financial crises, but also Gen Z really uh studied and made sure that they they were aware about like the financial complexities early on.
00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:59.200
Um I think that's really they they invested in their education basically.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.160
Yes, yeah.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.440
And I I would agree.
00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:09.200
And I think, you know, I'm seeing as well parents, you know, wanting to get their children into tap the gap and do you know what I mean?
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:14.319
Or into that early, because it is that that hindsight that we have later in life, right?
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.960
To go, I want you to have more than what I've had.
00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:21.200
And actually the more is the education that we didn't have.
00:25:21.360 --> 00:25:24.640
You know, like every generation wants the next one to be better off.
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:37.680
But I think the theme that I'm seeing through that is they want that, you know, these women now want the next generation to be better off from an education point of view because they know the challenges that they had, you know, in their life.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.240
Um, you know, which is really encouraging, I think.
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:40.880
Yeah.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.440
Yeah.
00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:41.920
Yeah.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:56.000
But I I the other thing I I that I've really noticed and I'd love to sort of touch on is, I guess, that behavioural lens, which is, you know, the the idea of wealth building has always coming back to that sort of frivolous thing.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.680
It's all it's always been framed as something about willpower, right?
00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:08.559
You know, you've got to be really strong, you know, to not spend money or to spend money, and you've got to have these strict, you know, budgets and, you know, like no one really wants to budget.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.319
Like it's not an exciting thing to do.
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:20.400
We we want the end result, which is we want to feel financially free and we want to feel strong and confident that our money's doing what it should do.
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:26.559
But then we kind of get locked in this, I've got to act, I've got to learn more, I've got to do more.
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.960
And that's where we're coming unstuck, right?
00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:35.920
Because the whole world for women right now is about adding more stuff to all the things that they expected to do.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:42.960
And so that's where we've taken this twist with Tap the Gap, which is really about saying, well, you don't need to do that.
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:44.480
You don't need to budget harder.
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.720
This is something that is automated, right?
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:47.840
You're doing it anyway.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.559
So it's kind of a a set and forget in some aspects.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:59.039
You, you know, you take five minutes to sign up and like connect everything up, and then you just go and live your life, right?
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.120
So we're not trying to build a new behavior or yeah, build another thing.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:09.039
We're kind of taking this default angle, which actually I think is is the power in it, right?
00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:16.480
And I mean, there was a really interesting example over in Austrian Germany, which was about organ donation.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:27.920
Now, what what they found was that essentially in Austria, you automatically became an organ donor unless you ticked a box to say you wanted to opt out, right?
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.000
But in Germany, you had to tick a box to say, I want to opt in.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.160
Now, Austria's registration rate was 99%, right?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.680
Because you had to actively say, you know, no, I'm really against this.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:47.200
But yeah, in Germany, you really had to um, you know, make that decision then and there.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.039
And that was a hard decision for people to make.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:50.799
So they had lower uptake.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:59.519
So I just find it really interesting to go, if we rely sheerly on willpower in that moment, we're not always going to achieve what we want to achieve, right?
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:00.640
Absolutely.
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.079
Because if you come to women at every single time and stage and go, I need you to think about this decision.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.720
I need you to think about this wealth building thing, they're just not going to get there in the end.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:11.200
Yeah.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.600
I mean, what we have so many things to think about, also like nuts, right?
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.559
The mental load, the mental load is really crazy.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.960
And that is predominantly what we hear from our customers.
00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:25.759
And, you know, people make great efforts, you know.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:33.440
I've heard stories of people consolidating their super and trying to get, and that means kind of taking, oh, I've got multiple funds and I want to put them in one.
00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:38.319
And for the listeners, that's a good idea because you only want to pay one set of fees, right?
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:49.840
So, you know, I've heard stories of people doing all of that and then they've got to the end of it and one super fund's in their maiden name, not their married name, and then they hit a block and they're like, oh gosh, you know, and then they stop.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:55.759
Now, a lot of that ultimately, if you know what you're doing, the super fund you're moving to will help you with that process.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:00.240
And it's not as complex as you might think, but it's what you think at the time.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:05.440
And a lot of people think that engaging with their super is really complex, right?
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:07.920
But it's not as much of it is.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:19.680
So, yeah, that's where I just think this this whole thing about behavior and the way that you know we have to reframe that and kind of lean into these default behaviors, that's where the power is for women.
00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:26.720
So, yeah, stop doing so much and do a bit less and you know, be potentially better off, as we say, in the financial circles.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.000
You could be better off.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:28.480
Yeah.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:29.680
We can't guarantee.
00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:30.160
Yeah.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:30.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.519
Definitely.
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.840
I think with the behavior as well.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:41.200
I love how a tap the gap is embedded into the everyday thing that we do anyway, which is like tapping your card.
00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.799
Like you're already purchasing.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.200
It's not something besides, I guess, like signing up and syncing all the accounts.
00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:51.840
It's not something that you have to do like all the time, like long something every purchase.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.960
And to your point about like budgeting, I think it's like there's only so much that you can budget.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:02.799
It's like your income is like, yeah, you can budget your the disposable income that you have.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:03.279
Yeah.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.120
But there's a limit to it.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.960
I don't really like besides all the budgeting that you can do.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:16.480
I'm a big fan of like try to create more income and create more revenue streams than just like how many coffees can I have this week?
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:20.000
It's it's it's really there's something that you can do.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:20.720
You're right.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.519
Well, that's the optimism angle that you're taking, right?
00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:31.920
Rather than the deficit, which is what can I cut out in order to get ahead or what can I, what can I enhance, you know, to get ahead.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:38.079
And so, yeah, we're leaning into that optimism, which is you do have power right now.
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.120
And it doesn't matter if you're 25 or 55.
00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:52.480
One of the things that I want a 55-year-old woman to know is that yes, you are closer to retirement, but the money that you have in your super keeps on investing past that date, right?
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.759
So it invests for the next 20 years as you draw down your pension salary on it.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.640
And a lot of people don't know that because you know what?
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:01.600
Like, no shame.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.640
It wasn't explained.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.640
I didn't know that three and a half years ago.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:09.120
I thought you just got a lump sum and rode off into the sunset in a winnebago, you know?
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.680
You know, that you just took it all out and you bought one thing.
00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:12.640
Do you know what I mean?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.039
Like, and it doesn't help the fact that you've got a government pension and a super pension.
00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:20.000
Like they've both got the same name, but they're different things.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:29.120
So yeah, like this system is fraught with unnecessary complexity, I think, and kind of setting us up to fail.
00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:32.079
But yeah, and that I mean, that's the reason we exist, right?
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.799
To do that.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.559
So I think, yeah, whatever stage you're at, there's always potential in now.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:48.559
And even if you are putting in$20 a week or like, you know, our users at the moment are putting in around$40, like$40 to$44 a month, which is sort of around$10 a week.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:55.840
It doesn't sound like much, but that can be an extra$35 to$40K, you know, over 30 years, right?
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.319
Which isn't, isn't nothing, you know.
00:31:58.559 --> 00:31:59.039
It's huge.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.519
Um, and that that's just that money alone.
00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:07.440
If you add that to what you've already got in your super and it's compounding and growing, then that number could be even greater.
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:07.920
Yeah.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:14.559
So I think I think if we can say to people today, it's not about like trying harder, it's just about being a little bit smarter.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:15.360
Absolutely.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.920
And this is what we're trying to do is make it a smarter option, you know, for women.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:25.920
And I can see, you know, we have men on the platform as well, non-binary individuals, like tap the gap is for everyone.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:32.559
And we've even seen, you know, we've got men on the platform who are putting money in their spouses super, you know, which is fantastic, right?
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:46.880
And this is a community issue, which really, you know, if we look at it, it's not just about women having less, it's actually about Australia, like underestimating the economic impact that women have on our economy, right?
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.400
And that's like a really big, chunky kind of topic.
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:50.960
Yeah.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:57.680
I think, yeah, it's really, it's really important that we look at that because, you know, women aren't earning as much.
00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:03.360
They live longer, you know, they're gonna they're, you know, we're classy birds, we stay, we stay alive.
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:03.840
We do.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:04.720
We're healthy.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:05.440
Yeah.
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:18.480
And and I and I look at that and I go, look, there's a lot to be done from a lot to be gained, should I say, from women's involvement in the economy and also making women stronger economically.
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:26.480
You know, we know um there's huge, there's trillions of dollars every um every week that we're losing from the economy.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:36.079
You know, Deloitte and IS did a fantastic report, The Big Um, The Big Lift, which was talking about our capability as a nation and our financial capability, should I say.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.880
And, you know, we're leaving a lot on the table.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.960
It's kind of the system itself that's failing us, you know?
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:53.279
So it's not women's fault, but not only are we kind of ending up on the streets ourselves from an individual point of view when we retire, but we can't take part in the economy.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.400
And we're actually just, we'll be draining the economy, right?
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:06.319
So there's all of this stuff that the government and Australia seeks to gain by helping women participate more in the economy and growing their own wealth.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:16.559
Everything from, you know, being able to ensure afford the insurance you need later in life to, you know, actually moving more money and spending more money in the economy later in life.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:29.039
You know, there's just a real gamut of things because, yeah, if we look at some of those things from an insurance point of view, I mean, that's a whole other category where women weren't really considered from a structural infrastructure point of view.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.559
Again, it's a financial system that wasn't really designed to reflect the way women work and live.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.840
Like if you get an insurance policy right now as a woman, you're kind of considered a risk, right?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:40.480
Really?
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.759
I actually didn't know that.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:47.360
Yeah, you you have time off work, you know, you if you're gonna rear children, like that's a risk.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.239
You might, you know, there's a chance you'll die in childbirth.
00:34:50.319 --> 00:34:58.880
Like these are very small percentages, but these are all parts of a female's life story that don't factor in like to a male story, right?
00:34:59.039 --> 00:34:59.360
Yeah.
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.920
And women are living very differently than they lived years ago, right?
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:11.840
It's all of these things, I think, if you look at it, you know, like my story, part of Tap the Gap comes from, you know, my mum separated from my dad.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:17.039
She was a primary school teacher, she brought up four kids by herself, and she didn't have any super when she retired, right?
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.000
Oh my god, why?
00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:23.199
Now that's yeah, like that's the system letting her down, right?
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:34.639
And letting down all of these carers, these amazing, you know, people who don't get paid right at the you know, higher tier, the nurses, the teachers, you know, that care economy.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:43.760
And I know there's huge discussion around that and talking about care credits and how can we actually value that contribution to the economy.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:49.840
But I think if we, yeah, if we look back at it, you know, mum contributed, she was really productive, right?
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.519
Like she was a productive individual.
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:56.720
She taught kids, future taxpayers, she brought up four kids, and we're all doing reasonably okay.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:01.679
So if you look at her from a productivity point of view, she's a highly productive member of society.
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:03.519
And yet that's not being reflected.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:08.079
And so I think, you know, we know that productivity in our nation and innovation has slowed, right?
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.159
Like our productivity is at like 1%.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:22.079
If we take a step back and go, well, women have so much to offer, so much, let's get them engaged in the economy more and look at that productivity behind it, like what we could actually achieve.
00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:31.760
So yeah, I mean, there was, I think there was an article this week that really from the University of New South Wales talked about just what we're missing with this innovation gap, right?
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.720
And that was a lot to do with funding women and female founders, like in tech.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.280
Yeah.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:43.199
Which is obviously a huge topic, but it it really does have that connective tissue, right?
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:50.159
Because it's not just about funding women businesses, it's actually about, you know, what that means for the economy greater.
00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:55.840
Like we've got all this innovation power and we're missing out on half of it because we're not letting that go forward.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.280
I don't know what you think of that.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:03.440
I think because obviously where I where I sit on is like on the investor side.
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:10.480
And I also do uh I also do workshops every month called Invest Like a Woman.
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.440
And it's really like very basic foundational investment lens.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.800
Cause to your point earlier, investing, thinking about your wealth, it's a muscle.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.039
You have to really have runs on the board, you have to have the breadth of experience.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.400
We can't make big decisions without making small decisions first.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:32.000
So oh, I love that.
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:33.199
I love that, yes.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:38.240
So you have to make like those reps and like, yes, there will be some losses along the way.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.240
That's part of life that's normal.
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.400
But where am I going with this?
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:57.440
But basically, it's you we have to make more discussions about this and have more safe spaces so that women can feel confident to invest, make and take into account that like yes, investing has a risk.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.720
And actually, we need to think about the risk management.
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.639
If you own a business, do you then invest in risky assets?
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.400
No, because you're already living a risky lifestyle.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:09.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.960
Point, pointing, Casey.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:11.440
Yeah.
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:12.079
Yeah.
00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:20.720
So so that's what I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to have like these rooms, more and more of like women to come into these rooms.
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:27.119
And you and I are, I would like to say, educated about like investing, and we have more to learn as well.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:34.559
But sometimes when I lead those workshops, it reminds me of this is important, we should do more of this.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:50.559
Because there are certain people, especially people in healthcare, who they provide so much value, but because again, like their brain cells are so consumed with like health, the science around health and providing care so that people live.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.440
Yes, a reasonable important job, I'd say.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.039
A very important job.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:02.240
But also then what's left to learn about their finances, it's the they're exhausted, right?
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.240
Yeah, so of course you you have to like make room for that.
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:22.000
And yeah, we need to have more of these conversations and create more rooms to kind of okay, people can talk about investing and this and that, but how do you actually move from no investing to actually investing those funds?
00:39:22.240 --> 00:39:22.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.760
And you know what?
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.039
I I love what you said.
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:33.519
I'm I'm I'm stilling the Japan thing as well, and the Japan, like the build to the lady, and the small decisions allow you to make the big one, right?
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:34.720
Like, yeah, yeah.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:49.519
I mean, I think it's true of anything in life that you you don't build confidence in really big, chunky moments, like you build them in kind of tiny pieces, and then all of a sudden you sort of you're standing in that confidence and you don't kind of realize how you got there.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:54.960
But I think that's what we have to do with women and money and investing in particular.
00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:03.199
And that's why we look at, you know, tap the gap and how we're talking to women about super, which is actually teaching them about investing, right?
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:06.880
And who knows where our product will be in the future as to what we offer.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.480
But when you understand super, you do understand investment because, you know, that's fundamentally what it is.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:14.480
Everyone, everyone is an investor.
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:16.480
Every woman is an investor.
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.440
Like if you're listening to this call and you have a job or you've ever had a job, you're an investor.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.760
You might just be a sleepy one, you know?
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.559
So it's helping people wake up to that realization that this is their money, you're in control.
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:41.679
And yeah, treat it like a necessary thing, like treat it like your health and well-being, you know, like you, like your exercise, as you put it, to learn and practice a little bit more.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:41:00.240
And then things become easier and they become habits, which is, you know, really what we want people to think about, you know, in terms of, yeah, moving from that world, like that chasm that you described, is we're going from sort of everyday banking to sophisticated investor, and it feels like there's nothing in between.
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:18.480
And it feels like I could never do that running jump across the massive ditch, you know, from hey, I've got a mortgage and a savings account, and, you know, that's kind of it, to oh my, oh my goodness, I understand the markets and I've got different, I've got crypto and all sorts of different types of investments.
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:24.159
We do need stuff to meet people in the middle and hold their hand across that massive gap.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:30.639
And that's where I see the great opportunity, you know, for things that you're doing yourself and things that tap the gap can do.
00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:32.880
And yeah, working together, right?
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.720
With with women and with community institutions.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.159
Like it's just been so lovely.
00:41:38.240 --> 00:41:44.400
I've had lots of people reach out lately saying, hey, like the people in my community be really interested in this.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:45.599
Let's work together.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.920
And I kind of love that, right?
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:59.920
Like I love that collaboration is the heart of what can drive change in this space, as opposed to, I don't know, just expecting people to kind of work it out for themselves, right?
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.400
And I think that's what women are fantastic at.
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:04.720
We're really good collaborators at heart.
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:11.599
So women in business, we stick together and we're all here to pull each other up the ladder, which is what I'm finding.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:19.119
I think that sentiment, you know, yes, we can talk about the doom and gloom of the 2%, which, you know, is is tragic.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:25.360
But I I know that that's changing and I know that there's a shift there, and I can feel it with the people around me.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:40.960
Uh, and even the way that I see the ecosystem now, even after 18 months of being in it, like I will try and help anyone who needs help, you know, and I will give them my time when I can because I know what it's like to be, you know, further back in the journey.
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:45.440
And you need that help because you need people to encourage you because the odds are stacked against you.
00:42:45.599 --> 00:43:02.079
So yeah, I th I think we're at a stage where things are, you know, moving in the right direction, both for women in technology to build these businesses and also for women in investing to really understand not just the basics, but yeah, to move forward in in their progression.
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:04.079
Huge, huge, huge, huge.
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:20.079
And I know like as we're about to uh wrap things up, and I wanna implore all the women who are listening to this as well to like have your feet into investing, have your feet into tech, uh would love to know from your side, Lucy.
00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:29.199
You know, you you've worked um in advertising, you've launched a book, you've produced a book, and now producing fintech company software.
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:32.240
What would you advise to 20-year-olds today?
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:33.039
20 year olds.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:33.679
Okay.
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:34.880
So two things.
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:36.079
Just it, enjoy.
00:43:36.240 --> 00:43:39.840
Enjoy being young and optimistic, which I love.
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.720
I'm a forever optimist, but do stay optimistic.
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:49.679
And I know there's lots of challenges out there for you thinking the world ahead is really uncertain, but you have power in your optimism, right?
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.599
You can shape the world any way you want.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:44:06.480
In terms of your finances, and particularly when it comes to super, if you're in your 20s, just stop what you're doing and look at your super app right now and see what you've got in there and don't panic or don't think that, oh, I'll do this later.
00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:07.519
Start now.
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:08.480
Start today.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:14.320
Even if it's$5 a week that you want to put in, you know, just know that time is on your side.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.720
And, you know, whether you think I'm this older woman trying to give you this sage advice or whatever, um, take it as you will.
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:23.360
But honestly, you will thank me.
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.240
You'll be you'll be telling people about this later on.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.760
So know that if you're 20, time is on your side.
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:38.720
And the choices you make now will set up the choices that you're able to make later in life because financial independence creates choice.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.199
And that's all I want for the women of Australia and around the world is to have choice.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:43.920
There you go.
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:45.519
All the options that you have.
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.320
And that's really the goal of investing as well.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:54.960
It's yes, it can make you a billionaire, millionaire, but also it gives you choice and option.
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:55.360
Yeah.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:55.840
Yeah.
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.119
And that's what you deserve.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:07.039
That's what all women deserve because we all work hard, whether you're working at home, looking after children, caring for someone, or working in the workplace and being paid wages.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:12.240
We all work hard throughout our lifetimes and we always care for other people, often ahead of ourselves.
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:18.639
So yeah, getting your financial independence and making sure that you build that for yourself creates choice.
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:25.760
And that's everything from leaving a job, leaving, you know, walking away from a bad relationship, traveling or starting a business.
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:29.440
When you have that great foundation, you can do whatever you want.
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:31.760
And you'll probably do something awesome, right?
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.039
And we need more of that.
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.159
Well, thanks, Lucy, for being on the pod.
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:41.840
I'm so excited to get this released and people know more about Tap the Gap.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:42.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:47.280
So look, if you're if Tap the Gap is of interest to you, you can jump on our website.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.400
We've got a web app right now, and we're pending release in App Store and Google Play.
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:55.840
So that's coming in the next, you know, couple of weeks, hopefully.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.400
Just like get your skates on over there at Apple.
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.599
And yeah, we've got a 14-day free trial.
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:07.199
So sign up, connect your bank, try and do it all in one go because we know what life's like.
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.880
Just take five minutes, get it set up, and then away you go.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.320
And yeah, love to hear from you.
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.800
Reach out via our website.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:19.039
Yeah, and follow us on tap.theGap on Instagram.
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.440
Thank you for listening to another episode of Fiery Femmes.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:29.360
If this resonated, share it with a woman in your life because we rise higher when we rise together.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:31.440
Don't forget to follow and review.
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:36.159
It helps more women access the tools and conversations that build wealth and confidence.
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:42.000
For more career and financial empowerment, come hang out on Instagram and YouTube at FieryFams.
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:44.480
I'll see you in the next episode.
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:17.280
Welcome to Fiery Fams, the podcast where high-achieving women build wealth, redesign their careers, and create lives with real freedom.
00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:23.439
I'm Sheena, an accredited investor, former tech sales professional and the founder of Fiery Femmes.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:34.079
After a decade across global SaaS, startups, and my own reinventions, I realized the most powerful thing a woman can have is optionality.
00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:46.079
So in every episode, we explore the future of work, the psychology of wealth, and the practical strategies that help women build careers and lives that evolve as fast as they do.
00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.640
Um, who is um Lucy from Tap the Gap?
00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:59.120
Hi everyone, my name is Lucy Keogh, and I'm the founder of Tap the Gap, which uh is a tech company essentially helping women build wealth while they shop.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:01:59.599
Yeah.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:00.319
I love it.
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:00.960
I love it.
00:02:01.039 --> 00:02:04.719
It's so aligned and it's while they shop as well.
00:02:04.960 --> 00:02:07.360
So tell us about the mechanisms of that.
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:08.319
Yeah, great.
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:13.199
So look, the way the product works is pretty simple, and there's three parts to it.
00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:24.080
So the first one is we connect to your bank, and every single time you use that connected um bank account, we round up every purchase to the nearest dollar, two dollars, or five dollars.
00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:31.840
So that means you might go and buy a coffee for$4.50, and that 50 cents gets rounded up and we sweep that money into your super.
00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:37.039
So that's on every single transaction, and that money is direct debited three times a week.
00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.640
So you hardly kind of feel it.
00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:41.280
It's like a you know, a dollar here or there.
00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:49.759
The second way that the app works is what's called brand bonus, and that's where we have over 275 brands on the platform.
00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:54.400
And when you shop with them, you get a gift from them into your super.
00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:56.640
So it's usually a percentage of the fee.
00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:06.240
So I might buy a shirt like this at the iconic and I pay$100 for it, and 5% of that would come back and we sweep that money into your super.
00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:14.480
So you've got a combination of your own money on every single purchase, and then a combination of money coming from the brands when you shop with them.
00:03:14.640 --> 00:03:27.680
And the last part of our product is education because we've found that a little bit of education bit by bit really helps grow confidence for women in that world of financial um literacy.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:36.080
And so, yeah, we deliver micro learning um little bits at a time to help women feel more confident with their superannuation and their attitude towards investing.
00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:38.320
Huge and amazing work.
00:03:38.480 --> 00:03:47.920
Uh I know how much it takes to build in a regulated environment, such as uh tap a gap in health tech, wealth tech.
00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:49.040
So well done.
00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.120
I I I can imagine you have the battle scars along the way.
00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:59.599
Oh yeah, yeah, there's some stories, but you know, like that's uh Well, I have written a book before because I come from a writing background.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:04.879
So maybe there'll be another book in me after I after I, you know, get to the other side of this thing.
00:04:05.040 --> 00:04:05.360
Yeah.
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:06.080
Absolutely.
00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:07.360
I can just imagine.
00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:18.399
And Lucy, before we get into the nitty-gree of things, I would love to know what is something that is not what's something about you that is not list listed on your LinkedIn profile.
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.639
Ooh, this is a good question, actually.
00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:30.719
I guess what I guess what's not there is you can see that I've worked in a world of advertising and then that I've built this kind of startup.
00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:37.120
But I guess what's not really described there in detail is my knowledge and growth around super, right?
00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:44.319
And how I went from this non-financial person to becoming an expert in superannuation.
00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:46.159
Like it's sort of a bit weird, right?
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:57.680
And look, we we have it there, but really I don't explain to people that journey, which is I actually didn't know anything about super really until about three years ago, three, four years ago.
00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:05.040
And it was working in the category when you're a creative in advertising and you have to sell something, you have to understand it intricately.
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:10.480
And you have to understand it so well that you can communicate it to someone who doesn't know anything about it.
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:17.759
So what people probably don't understand from my LinkedIn profile is that, yeah, I don't come from a wealth background.
00:05:17.919 --> 00:05:28.399
I've actually learnt all of this and I've or um, I guess my human lens to the experience and yeah, everything I've learned, I'm now putting into tap the gap.
00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:34.639
So I am a a super guru, but that's self-taught, you know, 10,000 hours, don't they say?
00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:35.839
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:35.919 --> 00:05:49.279
And sometimes when it's actually your personal story, your personal interest, and you apply all that muscle into like learning, it's so much more effective because you have that personal interest in it as well.
00:05:49.439 --> 00:05:54.399
So that's really incredible that you're now a superannuation guru.
00:05:54.719 --> 00:06:02.879
And can I ask what happened along the way when during your time at advertising that you were like, wow, that there's so much to learn.
00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.959
I want to share this with everyone else as well.
00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:06.000
Yeah, okay, great.
00:06:06.159 --> 00:06:07.680
Yeah, great question actually.
00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:13.039
Um, because I don't often think about that as much now, you know, as we're building and moving forward all the time.
00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:19.759
I think when I first got approached to come back to the agency I was working at, I'd worked there earlier in my career.
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.319
They're a fantastic place to work.
00:06:22.479 --> 00:06:29.279
They came back and said, Look, we want you to lead this super account and we want you to do everything from brand right through to member comms.
00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:33.439
And that was kind of unusual for creative directors to work across the full gamut.
00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.159
And most people sort of looked and went, super fun.
00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:37.519
It's like that's a bit dull.
00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.039
And I looked at it really with, you know, real interest.
00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.599
I'm like, well, if we can take a category that's really dull, the only way is up, right?
00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.399
And so there's a lot of room for improvement there.
00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:57.919
Um and I think people don't consider that sort of like a sexy thing, you know, like they want to work on beer advertising or, you know, supermarkets or something.
00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:03.919
But I think if you reframe it to be, well, the opp what is the opportunity here?
00:07:04.159 --> 00:07:06.239
And that's like limitless.
00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:08.399
That's where I kind of dug in, right?
00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:14.959
And I took it on board as my own learning and self-discovery, you know, rather than feeling like a job.
00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:24.959
So yeah, as I was going and talking to lots of people about this, it was probably just a real self-discovery for myself, as well as working, if that makes sense.
00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:30.719
And I started to grow my confidence and I could see, well, what if everyone could do this?
00:07:31.039 --> 00:07:31.359
Right?
00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:38.799
Like just little by little, because you don't understand everything about super and investing, you would know straight away.
00:07:38.959 --> 00:07:44.560
And if you try and get someone to even think that they can do that, they'll just be turned off, you know?
00:07:44.719 --> 00:07:48.959
They'll be like, oh, it's a bit overwhelming, it's a bit too much, it feels too serious.
00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:01.199
So I think if, yeah, if I can align my journey of working for three and a half years on not really knowing anything about it to where I am now, that's what I'm trying to emulate in Tap the Gap.
00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:02.079
Absolutely.
00:08:02.239 --> 00:08:14.639
And uh, it's incredible because of course when you run accounts and you you don't really know anything about, or or maybe you you know bits and pieces, you want to make sure that like you're credible.
00:08:14.799 --> 00:08:24.079
So you've researched a lot about superannuation and just make sure that when you're talking to your to your account that you actually care.
00:08:24.239 --> 00:08:32.240
So you've cared so much and have done your due diligence, extra work, extra homework to make sure that you understand their industry as well.
00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:37.360
Yeah, and and that's a really good point, actually, because you have to understand both sides.
00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:42.799
Like you have to understand the industry and the challenges that the super companies face, right?
00:08:42.879 --> 00:08:48.320
Like they've got a huge responsibility in terms of legal compliance, all of the reporting they do.
00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.879
Then, you know, the marketing team is only one part of that.
00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:53.840
Then you've got the product team and you've got the consumer.
00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:59.600
So I think my experience was actually I'm not sitting on one side, I could see all of it.
00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:14.240
And that's kind of unusual because normally you have someone, you know, at a super fund, like they're really living in that world all the time, and they probably don't have as much of an understanding as, you know, as we might, as people far on the outside world.
00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:16.240
I mean, the marketers do, obviously.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:20.240
But yeah, it's really interesting to understand all those facets, right?
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.519
Because it's not as simple as just doing an ad campaign.
00:09:23.680 --> 00:09:29.840
It's really understanding fundamentally where the industry sits, you know, what are the challenges broadly with the industry?
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:31.360
What's the history of the industry?
00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:32.560
Where's it going?
00:09:32.720 --> 00:09:45.440
Um, and that's probably what really excited me by not only understanding just a kind of thing from a communications point of view, but from a business point of view, what is this institution and how is it built?
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:50.080
And what is kind of fundamentally wrong, like at that structural level.
00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.879
So yeah, yeah, I really that's a great question that you that you asked.
00:09:55.120 --> 00:10:02.080
I think it's great that you're in the an unusual space because I I think that's where usually where the opportunities lie as well.
00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:04.080
The unusual gray space.
00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:21.600
And again, like kudos to I was I was talking to someone earlier today, and I'm like, I question myself on like choosing this space because it's so regulated that I feel I need to be very careful with what I say, what and also like I am not providing personal advice at all.
00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:32.080
I usually refer people who do have those very specific nitigrity to advisors that I know that I've worked with, but absolutely no advice coming from my end.
00:10:32.160 --> 00:10:34.080
No financial advice.
00:10:34.160 --> 00:10:35.759
Like same here, we're general.
00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:37.280
Yeah, we're general advice.
00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:44.240
But I I think what's interesting about that, even as part of this journey, is you know, general advice, it is important.
00:10:44.400 --> 00:10:56.320
You need to understand the parameters of it, but literally translating what is factual advice into information that people can actually understand, that becomes classified as general advice.
00:10:56.560 --> 00:10:58.800
And I I found that really fascinating to start with.
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:06.960
I'm like, oh, so just so that I can explain soup art to someone so they can actually understand it, I need to have a license, you know?
00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.519
And look, there's areas within that, right?
00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:17.680
Because I understand now better than I did when I started why I need that regulation, because you know, these are really important things.
00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:21.680
This is someone's life savings that they're putting money into.
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:24.160
And that's really serious business.
00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:35.200
But I do find, I don't know, I just find there's great tension in the fact that, you know, in order to help everyday people, yeah, I had to jump through so many hoops to get there.
00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:38.800
And ordinarily, like, I feel like that's the responsibility of our government, right?
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.360
Like, but no one is doing this job.
00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:47.360
We have the ATO and who enjoys reading the ATO website, yes, it's informative, but do people understand it?
00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:47.680
No.
00:11:47.920 --> 00:12:01.280
And that's why we've got this massive gap and this chasm of lack of engagement because our systems and our infrastructure isn't there delivering on what I believe is the responsibility of the government, right?
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:01.680
Yeah.
00:12:01.920 --> 00:12:03.200
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:07.519
So someone has to take on the responsibility and this is you.
00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:09.200
I don't right now.
00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:19.040
I'm like, yeah, we could I maybe could have thought that through a little bit more, but uh Yeah, it is, but I do have people saying that to me, you know, like customers who say, Isn't this the government's responsibility?
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:22.480
And I said, well, yes, you might frame it like that.
00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:26.240
And, you know, people in government have got a big job to do, right?
00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:27.280
Like a huge job.
00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:28.800
And that's not dissing them.
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:32.480
I think politicians are are amazing in what they can achieve.
00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:41.600
And, you know, particularly our government right now have achieved great things for women in terms of uh equality, and there's huge changes happening in super as well.
00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:58.320
But I think there's there's yeah, there is this expectation that someone else is going to do that, and there's just such parameters around, you know, the bigger institutions, particularly the super funds, they can't move at speed and they can't, they've got all these other things to do, if that makes sense.
00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:05.840
So if that's why if we're like, can we focus on that niche of just engaging people in super and helping them build their confidence?
00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:10.000
Then we can be one part of a broader ecosystem, you know?
00:13:10.160 --> 00:13:11.840
Like I don't want to become a super fund.
00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.720
I don't want to take over that job from anyone.
00:13:14.800 --> 00:13:27.440
I'm like, you do you, but we're really focused on engaging more people in this, you know, in this sector, which yeah, needs needs to be treated as the sexy thing it is, which it's not right now.
00:13:27.680 --> 00:13:28.000
Yes.
00:13:28.160 --> 00:13:35.280
I think the rebrand uh or I guess in your category that's sexier for superannuation, definitely I'm all for it.
00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:36.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.120
Well, we've got a camp, we've got an ad campaign coming out soon.
00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:42.879
So yeah, yeah, keep an eye on that, um, which will be great.
00:13:43.040 --> 00:13:45.840
That will sort of really shit the category, I think.
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.080
Yeah, I I I'll keep my eyes peeled.
00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:49.759
I'm super excited for that.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:58.960
And look, Lucy, obviously we we are online on a lot of things, especially on economic power with women and financial literacy for women.
00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:14.240
Yesterday I had a call with um a founder, and I told him about the start of there's actually more women over 55 is the growing, growing population for homelessness in Australia, and I think more most in like the Western world as well.
00:14:14.400 --> 00:14:15.840
And he was so surprised.
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:21.280
And I was just like, I thought this is like a a fact that everyone knows, but it's not.
00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:33.680
So I guess one of the things that I'd love to talk to you about is around like economic power and about how women usually have the budget, but for some reason along the way, there's some mishaps that happen.
00:14:33.920 --> 00:14:34.160
Yeah.
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.080
Yeah, it's so strange, right?
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:49.920
It it's a similar story, I think, to, you know, you see girls ahead of the class, you know, in school, and yet, you know, they don't they graduate and they don't take the jobs sort of in the workforce, even though they've been those high achievers.
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:57.920
So what I'd probab probably say is there's a real disparity in the way that women engage in our economy overall, right?
00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:03.120
Because if you look at things, ultimately, women make 80% of the purchase decisions.
00:15:03.280 --> 00:15:07.040
Now, that's in a household, it's 86% in the United States.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.639
That is a huge amount of economic power, right?
00:15:10.800 --> 00:15:20.400
And but you we see women are ending their lives having done all that purchase power, and you know, they're becoming homeless and they're retiring with less.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:40.080
So it's a really interesting, like just crux we find ourselves in to say, well, actually, you know, you can get annoyed about it, the fact that women are retiring with less and we don't get paid as much and all this, but we have a huge economic power sitting right right at our doorstep, and we're not making the most of it.
00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:52.160
And that's where tap the gap comes in, because by actually allowing women to continue to make those decisions, but every time they do put money in their future wealth, we're kind of hacking this system, right?
00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.320
And a lot of people haven't thought about that.
00:15:54.480 --> 00:16:01.120
There's definitely a lot of narrative around the wealth gap, the super gap in particular, and it's all about a deficit.
00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:05.120
But I think that we don't look at the optimism story, right?
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:06.800
Which is what we can do.
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:08.240
Like, where is our power?
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:12.480
We need to stand in our power and go, hey, cool, I'm making that decision.
00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:14.800
I'm deciding really which car we buy.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.200
I'm, you know, deciding on insurance.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.759
I know which supermarket we're gonna shop at.
00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:21.600
Like this is powerful stuff.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:34.240
And I think women for themselves need to reframe that and go, yeah, cool, I'm gonna use this to my advantage rather than just being taken along and and spat out towards the end of the system, you know?
00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:36.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:47.920
I remembered some of my friends went to Japan and they were so surprised because they the waiters give the bill to the woman.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:50.160
So Oh my gosh, I love that.
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:51.680
That's so cool.
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:53.200
Have you been to Japan?
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:58.800
I have, but I've only spent a few days over there as a stopover, and I didn't, that's not something I picked up.
00:16:58.960 --> 00:16:59.280
Wow.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:09.440
So they were a couple, and then they were like, one thing that really surprised me was usually here in Australia, it would be the husband, like the they they give the bill to the husband or to the man.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:14.639
But in Japan, they give the bill to the woman because they know that it's the woman who controls the funds.
00:17:14.799 --> 00:17:16.079
Like they they do the budget.
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.480
And I was like, that's so interesting.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:19.839
I love this.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.480
There is a social post in this, I can see that.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.319
And like that's yeah, that's really fascinating.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:40.559
And I think what's so interesting about that is, and it's something I spoke about at Vogue Codes recently, is that um one of the questions Charlie asked me was about, you know, women and shopping and retail has always been kind of deemed as quite frivolous.
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:50.079
And, you know, women are like, we're having retail therapy, and you know, we're we've been made to feel guilty about purchasing things and about buying things, right?
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:54.799
And I just love that we can flip that and say, stop feeling guilty.
00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:58.240
Start feeling powerful because that's what you can do, right?
00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:00.079
Like that is where your power is.
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:07.360
And so we don't have to fit around a system where creating a new one around the way that we already live.
00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:08.799
Yeah, absolutely.
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:19.440
It's like I also saw this post of why are women like getting positioned as like frivolous for like our nails, for the lipstick, for the croissance, like the little treat.
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:32.000
When I know every maybe I I don't watch sports as much, but some of my friends, my guy friends and husband does, you know, they put like, I don't know, maybe 50 bucks, hundred bucks on like a game.
00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:33.440
I don't know what they bet on.
00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.480
But I'm like, yeah, how come that doesn't get talked about?
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:41.440
And also like on Wall Street Bets, which is like a Reddit subreddit.
00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:42.079
Yeah.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.920
Have you heard of Wall Street Bets?
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:46.000
No, no, I'm writing this down.
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:46.319
Yeah.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:55.920
So basically Wall Street Bet is a subreddit where like people, predominantly guys or men, have would gamble their money on specific stocks.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:12.960
Stocks, stocks, they'll put call options, put up they'll they'll do uh calls and puts on certain stocks, betting whether they're gonna fail or they're gonna succeed at a price, but they'll put losses, they'll post their losses of like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:21.600
Like and it's wild because they kind of like make fun of each other, but I'm just like yeah, so why is that not talked about, right?
00:19:21.840 --> 00:19:37.039
Like exactly, whereas like women are like, you know, like getting making fun of like the girl mask thing, the little treat thing, whereas like some people are literally making losses and posting about that on the internet just for the fun of it, it seems.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.519
Yeah.
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:38.559
And do you know what?
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:45.120
Like, there's so much data that supports the way that women see future wealth creation as well.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:55.039
Like, um, so lots of studies, I mean, with the great wealth transfer, women are going to inherit a higher proportion of the money that's moving from the boomer generation.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.160
And they actually plan differently when it comes to wealth.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:04.640
You know, they're thinking about longevity and their family and you know, what they're actually gonna leave their kids.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.240
And, you know, they have more of a generational lens.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:13.920
They also think about impact and where that where that money is going to be spent, what kind of companies.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:22.559
So there's a real shift in women should really, the the biggest thing I want women to know now is this is your time, right?
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:34.480
Like this actually is your time to stand in that economic power that you have because don't let it kind of wash over you or feel that you're not, you know, strong enough or knowledgeable enough.
00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:35.279
You've got it.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:37.279
Like it's it's right there in front of you.
00:20:37.360 --> 00:20:44.000
And you can make these decisions just by building a little bit of confidence, you know, and starting to take small actions.
00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:52.240
It's fascinating to see even some of our early users who started, you know, maybe five months ago, the actions that they're taking for themselves.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:21:00.960
Like we had a gorgeous user, Sam, who, you know, quoted the fact that her dad taught her brother about finance when they were growing up, but not her, right?
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:04.319
And and I don't, I don't think it was intentional.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:05.600
Like, as do you know what I mean?
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:08.640
Like intentionally, I'm gonna lock you out of this conversation.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.799
It was just something that naturally happened.
00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:13.039
You know, this is the patriarchy at work.
00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:20.000
And so here she is later in life going, hey, I kind of missed out on all of this and I want to make up for it.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:29.840
And, you know, we could see that um, you know, in month four of her tap the gap journey, she did actually change her investment choice in her super and she named a beneficiary.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.240
And, you know, like these are two actions for her wealth building, which are huge.
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:39.360
Like super funds would love that to happen, you know, for their customers.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:42.559
Um and they might send 10 emails and get no responses.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:50.160
So I think you can see that it is just taking that moment to realize you can empower yourself, right?
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.559
And it doesn't need to be all at once.
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:54.559
It's just a couple of little things.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:22:00.000
And that actually sets you up, you know, for b for greater things that you want to do.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:04.160
And that's really that behavioral lens, I guess, that we're putting on the product.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:09.200
And so, you know, yes, it's a fintech, but it's it's not actually just a set of features.
00:22:09.360 --> 00:22:18.799
It's the way that we're engaging uh and timing these responses to our users in order to sort of grow that confidence, if that makes sense.
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:31.759
So yeah, it's how do we weave this experience of building wealth into everyday stuff and everyday habits and everyday actions rather than going, oh, it's something for the future, I'll think about that later.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:33.759
And then that later becomes too late.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:34.480
Definitely.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.640
And you're touching on the important and beneficial thing about time as well.
00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:48.960
So if people knew more that like if if only right, like when I was like in my early 20s, that I kind of knew what I know now, right?
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:49.840
Amazing.
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:55.519
Even if it was like maybe like five dollars a week or something, like the impact of that would be massive.
00:22:55.759 --> 00:22:56.079
Yeah.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:58.799
Like even just just this idea or compassion.
00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:02.000
Interest, right, is not something we're really taught.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.720
And, you know, I think, I think it's part of one module in year 10 maths.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:17.840
And then superannuation is part of extension maths in year 12, which again to me surprises me because everyone will have a job at some stage, unless you're a trust fund baby.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:23.279
So, you know, these are fundamental skills that our kids in Australia are missing out on, right?
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:29.200
And if they know that, then yeah, they're already ahead of it in in your point that you make.
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:36.559
Like in your 20s, putting$5 a week away is going to be better for you than putting in masses more money later down the track.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:52.160
Um yeah, which is it's great to see that, you know, we've got young women using Tap the Gap and actually coming and talking to us, and they're really interested in this stuff because they know that they don't have everything that their grandparents had or even their parents had.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:54.720
Like the opportunities for them to build wealth are different now.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:02.079
And, you know, property might feel out of reach and you know, that the control that they have is not, yeah, is not exactly where they want to be.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:07.920
So I do find that really, yeah, really powerful for people to understand these early messages, right?
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:08.640
So good.
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:16.079
I I read an article, I think was it this morning, that says that Gen Z is actually out earning millennial women at the same age.
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.240
So and I think it's because Gen Z.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:21.120
Is that a combination like through earnings?
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:26.240
Is that wages alone or just earnings based on investments and wages?
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:35.120
I feel like it might be earnings because I know that uh Gen Z focused on investing in stocks versus like property.
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:42.559
And to be fair, like with millennials, there was like the global financial crisis by the time that millennials like graduated.
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:55.360
There's like just a few financial crises, but also Gen Z really uh studied and made sure that they they were aware about like the financial complexities early on.
00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:59.200
Um I think that's really they they invested in their education basically.
00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:00.160
Yes, yeah.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.440
And I I would agree.
00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:09.200
And I think, you know, I'm seeing as well parents, you know, wanting to get their children into tap the gap and do you know what I mean?
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:14.319
Or into that early, because it is that that hindsight that we have later in life, right?
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:16.960
To go, I want you to have more than what I've had.
00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:21.200
And actually the more is the education that we didn't have.
00:25:21.360 --> 00:25:24.640
You know, like every generation wants the next one to be better off.
00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:37.680
But I think the theme that I'm seeing through that is they want that, you know, these women now want the next generation to be better off from an education point of view because they know the challenges that they had, you know, in their life.
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.240
Um, you know, which is really encouraging, I think.
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:40.880
Yeah.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:41.440
Yeah.
00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:41.920
Yeah.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:56.000
But I I the other thing I I that I've really noticed and I'd love to sort of touch on is, I guess, that behavioural lens, which is, you know, the the idea of wealth building has always coming back to that sort of frivolous thing.
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.680
It's all it's always been framed as something about willpower, right?
00:25:59.840 --> 00:26:08.559
You know, you've got to be really strong, you know, to not spend money or to spend money, and you've got to have these strict, you know, budgets and, you know, like no one really wants to budget.
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:10.319
Like it's not an exciting thing to do.
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:20.400
We we want the end result, which is we want to feel financially free and we want to feel strong and confident that our money's doing what it should do.
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:26.559
But then we kind of get locked in this, I've got to act, I've got to learn more, I've got to do more.
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:28.960
And that's where we're coming unstuck, right?
00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:35.920
Because the whole world for women right now is about adding more stuff to all the things that they expected to do.
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:42.960
And so that's where we've taken this twist with Tap the Gap, which is really about saying, well, you don't need to do that.
00:26:43.039 --> 00:26:44.480
You don't need to budget harder.
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.720
This is something that is automated, right?
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:47.840
You're doing it anyway.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.559
So it's kind of a a set and forget in some aspects.
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:59.039
You, you know, you take five minutes to sign up and like connect everything up, and then you just go and live your life, right?
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.120
So we're not trying to build a new behavior or yeah, build another thing.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:09.039
We're kind of taking this default angle, which actually I think is is the power in it, right?
00:27:09.120 --> 00:27:16.480
And I mean, there was a really interesting example over in Austrian Germany, which was about organ donation.
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:27.920
Now, what what they found was that essentially in Austria, you automatically became an organ donor unless you ticked a box to say you wanted to opt out, right?
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:32.000
But in Germany, you had to tick a box to say, I want to opt in.
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.160
Now, Austria's registration rate was 99%, right?
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.680
Because you had to actively say, you know, no, I'm really against this.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:47.200
But yeah, in Germany, you really had to um, you know, make that decision then and there.
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:49.039
And that was a hard decision for people to make.
00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:50.799
So they had lower uptake.
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:59.519
So I just find it really interesting to go, if we rely sheerly on willpower in that moment, we're not always going to achieve what we want to achieve, right?
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:00.640
Absolutely.
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:06.079
Because if you come to women at every single time and stage and go, I need you to think about this decision.
00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:10.720
I need you to think about this wealth building thing, they're just not going to get there in the end.
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:11.200
Yeah.
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.600
I mean, what we have so many things to think about, also like nuts, right?
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:18.559
The mental load, the mental load is really crazy.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:22.960
And that is predominantly what we hear from our customers.
00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:25.759
And, you know, people make great efforts, you know.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:33.440
I've heard stories of people consolidating their super and trying to get, and that means kind of taking, oh, I've got multiple funds and I want to put them in one.
00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:38.319
And for the listeners, that's a good idea because you only want to pay one set of fees, right?
00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:49.840
So, you know, I've heard stories of people doing all of that and then they've got to the end of it and one super fund's in their maiden name, not their married name, and then they hit a block and they're like, oh gosh, you know, and then they stop.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:55.759
Now, a lot of that ultimately, if you know what you're doing, the super fund you're moving to will help you with that process.
00:28:55.920 --> 00:29:00.240
And it's not as complex as you might think, but it's what you think at the time.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:05.440
And a lot of people think that engaging with their super is really complex, right?
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:07.920
But it's not as much of it is.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:19.680
So, yeah, that's where I just think this this whole thing about behavior and the way that you know we have to reframe that and kind of lean into these default behaviors, that's where the power is for women.
00:29:19.840 --> 00:29:26.720
So, yeah, stop doing so much and do a bit less and you know, be potentially better off, as we say, in the financial circles.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:28.000
You could be better off.
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:28.480
Yeah.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:29.680
We can't guarantee.
00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:30.160
Yeah.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:30.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:31.519
Definitely.
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:33.840
I think with the behavior as well.
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:41.200
I love how a tap the gap is embedded into the everyday thing that we do anyway, which is like tapping your card.
00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.799
Like you're already purchasing.
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.200
It's not something besides, I guess, like signing up and syncing all the accounts.
00:29:47.360 --> 00:29:51.840
It's not something that you have to do like all the time, like long something every purchase.
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.960
And to your point about like budgeting, I think it's like there's only so much that you can budget.
00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:02.799
It's like your income is like, yeah, you can budget your the disposable income that you have.
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:03.279
Yeah.
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.120
But there's a limit to it.
00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.960
I don't really like besides all the budgeting that you can do.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:16.480
I'm a big fan of like try to create more income and create more revenue streams than just like how many coffees can I have this week?
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:20.000
It's it's it's really there's something that you can do.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:20.720
You're right.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.519
Well, that's the optimism angle that you're taking, right?
00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:31.920
Rather than the deficit, which is what can I cut out in order to get ahead or what can I, what can I enhance, you know, to get ahead.
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:38.079
And so, yeah, we're leaning into that optimism, which is you do have power right now.
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.120
And it doesn't matter if you're 25 or 55.
00:30:41.360 --> 00:30:52.480
One of the things that I want a 55-year-old woman to know is that yes, you are closer to retirement, but the money that you have in your super keeps on investing past that date, right?
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.759
So it invests for the next 20 years as you draw down your pension salary on it.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:00.640
And a lot of people don't know that because you know what?
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:01.600
Like, no shame.
00:31:01.680 --> 00:31:02.640
It wasn't explained.
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.640
I didn't know that three and a half years ago.
00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:09.120
I thought you just got a lump sum and rode off into the sunset in a winnebago, you know?
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.680
You know, that you just took it all out and you bought one thing.
00:31:11.840 --> 00:31:12.640
Do you know what I mean?
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.039
Like, and it doesn't help the fact that you've got a government pension and a super pension.
00:31:17.120 --> 00:31:20.000
Like they've both got the same name, but they're different things.
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:29.120
So yeah, like this system is fraught with unnecessary complexity, I think, and kind of setting us up to fail.
00:31:29.360 --> 00:31:32.079
But yeah, and that I mean, that's the reason we exist, right?
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:32.799
To do that.
00:31:32.880 --> 00:31:38.559
So I think, yeah, whatever stage you're at, there's always potential in now.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:48.559
And even if you are putting in$20 a week or like, you know, our users at the moment are putting in around$40, like$40 to$44 a month, which is sort of around$10 a week.
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:55.840
It doesn't sound like much, but that can be an extra$35 to$40K, you know, over 30 years, right?
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.319
Which isn't, isn't nothing, you know.
00:31:58.559 --> 00:31:59.039
It's huge.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.519
Um, and that that's just that money alone.
00:32:01.600 --> 00:32:07.440
If you add that to what you've already got in your super and it's compounding and growing, then that number could be even greater.
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:07.920
Yeah.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:14.559
So I think I think if we can say to people today, it's not about like trying harder, it's just about being a little bit smarter.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:15.360
Absolutely.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.920
And this is what we're trying to do is make it a smarter option, you know, for women.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:25.920
And I can see, you know, we have men on the platform as well, non-binary individuals, like tap the gap is for everyone.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:32.559
And we've even seen, you know, we've got men on the platform who are putting money in their spouses super, you know, which is fantastic, right?
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:46.880
And this is a community issue, which really, you know, if we look at it, it's not just about women having less, it's actually about Australia, like underestimating the economic impact that women have on our economy, right?
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.400
And that's like a really big, chunky kind of topic.
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:50.960
Yeah.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:57.680
I think, yeah, it's really, it's really important that we look at that because, you know, women aren't earning as much.
00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:03.360
They live longer, you know, they're gonna they're, you know, we're classy birds, we stay, we stay alive.
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:03.840
We do.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:04.720
We're healthy.
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:05.440
Yeah.
00:33:05.680 --> 00:33:18.480
And and I and I look at that and I go, look, there's a lot to be done from a lot to be gained, should I say, from women's involvement in the economy and also making women stronger economically.
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:26.480
You know, we know um there's huge, there's trillions of dollars every um every week that we're losing from the economy.
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:36.079
You know, Deloitte and IS did a fantastic report, The Big Um, The Big Lift, which was talking about our capability as a nation and our financial capability, should I say.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.880
And, you know, we're leaving a lot on the table.
00:33:39.039 --> 00:33:42.960
It's kind of the system itself that's failing us, you know?
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:53.279
So it's not women's fault, but not only are we kind of ending up on the streets ourselves from an individual point of view when we retire, but we can't take part in the economy.
00:33:53.440 --> 00:33:56.400
And we're actually just, we'll be draining the economy, right?
00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:06.319
So there's all of this stuff that the government and Australia seeks to gain by helping women participate more in the economy and growing their own wealth.
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:16.559
Everything from, you know, being able to ensure afford the insurance you need later in life to, you know, actually moving more money and spending more money in the economy later in life.
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:29.039
You know, there's just a real gamut of things because, yeah, if we look at some of those things from an insurance point of view, I mean, that's a whole other category where women weren't really considered from a structural infrastructure point of view.
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:34.559
Again, it's a financial system that wasn't really designed to reflect the way women work and live.
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:39.840
Like if you get an insurance policy right now as a woman, you're kind of considered a risk, right?
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:40.480
Really?
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:41.759
I actually didn't know that.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:47.360
Yeah, you you have time off work, you know, you if you're gonna rear children, like that's a risk.
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.239
You might, you know, there's a chance you'll die in childbirth.
00:34:50.319 --> 00:34:58.880
Like these are very small percentages, but these are all parts of a female's life story that don't factor in like to a male story, right?
00:34:59.039 --> 00:34:59.360
Yeah.
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:03.920
And women are living very differently than they lived years ago, right?
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:11.840
It's all of these things, I think, if you look at it, you know, like my story, part of Tap the Gap comes from, you know, my mum separated from my dad.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:17.039
She was a primary school teacher, she brought up four kids by herself, and she didn't have any super when she retired, right?
00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:18.000
Oh my god, why?
00:35:18.240 --> 00:35:23.199
Now that's yeah, like that's the system letting her down, right?
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:34.639
And letting down all of these carers, these amazing, you know, people who don't get paid right at the you know, higher tier, the nurses, the teachers, you know, that care economy.
00:35:35.119 --> 00:35:43.760
And I know there's huge discussion around that and talking about care credits and how can we actually value that contribution to the economy.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:49.840
But I think if we, yeah, if we look back at it, you know, mum contributed, she was really productive, right?
00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.519
Like she was a productive individual.
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:56.720
She taught kids, future taxpayers, she brought up four kids, and we're all doing reasonably okay.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:01.679
So if you look at her from a productivity point of view, she's a highly productive member of society.
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:03.519
And yet that's not being reflected.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:08.079
And so I think, you know, we know that productivity in our nation and innovation has slowed, right?
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.159
Like our productivity is at like 1%.
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:22.079
If we take a step back and go, well, women have so much to offer, so much, let's get them engaged in the economy more and look at that productivity behind it, like what we could actually achieve.
00:36:22.240 --> 00:36:31.760
So yeah, I mean, there was, I think there was an article this week that really from the University of New South Wales talked about just what we're missing with this innovation gap, right?
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.720
And that was a lot to do with funding women and female founders, like in tech.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.280
Yeah.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:43.199
Which is obviously a huge topic, but it it really does have that connective tissue, right?
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:50.159
Because it's not just about funding women businesses, it's actually about, you know, what that means for the economy greater.
00:36:50.240 --> 00:36:55.840
Like we've got all this innovation power and we're missing out on half of it because we're not letting that go forward.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:57.280
I don't know what you think of that.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:03.440
I think because obviously where I where I sit on is like on the investor side.
00:37:03.679 --> 00:37:10.480
And I also do uh I also do workshops every month called Invest Like a Woman.
00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:15.440
And it's really like very basic foundational investment lens.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.800
Cause to your point earlier, investing, thinking about your wealth, it's a muscle.
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.039
You have to really have runs on the board, you have to have the breadth of experience.
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:30.400
We can't make big decisions without making small decisions first.
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:32.000
So oh, I love that.
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:33.199
I love that, yes.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:38.240
So you have to make like those reps and like, yes, there will be some losses along the way.
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:40.240
That's part of life that's normal.
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.400
But where am I going with this?
00:37:42.559 --> 00:37:57.440
But basically, it's you we have to make more discussions about this and have more safe spaces so that women can feel confident to invest, make and take into account that like yes, investing has a risk.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.720
And actually, we need to think about the risk management.
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.639
If you own a business, do you then invest in risky assets?
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.400
No, because you're already living a risky lifestyle.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:09.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:10.960
Point, pointing, Casey.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:11.440
Yeah.
00:38:11.760 --> 00:38:12.079
Yeah.
00:38:12.240 --> 00:38:20.720
So so that's what I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to have like these rooms, more and more of like women to come into these rooms.
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:27.119
And you and I are, I would like to say, educated about like investing, and we have more to learn as well.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:34.559
But sometimes when I lead those workshops, it reminds me of this is important, we should do more of this.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:50.559
Because there are certain people, especially people in healthcare, who they provide so much value, but because again, like their brain cells are so consumed with like health, the science around health and providing care so that people live.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:53.440
Yes, a reasonable important job, I'd say.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:55.039
A very important job.
00:38:55.360 --> 00:39:02.240
But also then what's left to learn about their finances, it's the they're exhausted, right?
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:06.240
Yeah, so of course you you have to like make room for that.
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:22.000
And yeah, we need to have more of these conversations and create more rooms to kind of okay, people can talk about investing and this and that, but how do you actually move from no investing to actually investing those funds?
00:39:22.240 --> 00:39:22.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:23.760
And you know what?
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:25.039
I I love what you said.
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:33.519
I'm I'm I'm stilling the Japan thing as well, and the Japan, like the build to the lady, and the small decisions allow you to make the big one, right?
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:34.720
Like, yeah, yeah.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:49.519
I mean, I think it's true of anything in life that you you don't build confidence in really big, chunky moments, like you build them in kind of tiny pieces, and then all of a sudden you sort of you're standing in that confidence and you don't kind of realize how you got there.
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:54.960
But I think that's what we have to do with women and money and investing in particular.
00:39:55.119 --> 00:40:03.199
And that's why we look at, you know, tap the gap and how we're talking to women about super, which is actually teaching them about investing, right?
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:06.880
And who knows where our product will be in the future as to what we offer.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.480
But when you understand super, you do understand investment because, you know, that's fundamentally what it is.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:14.480
Everyone, everyone is an investor.
00:40:14.720 --> 00:40:16.480
Every woman is an investor.
00:40:16.639 --> 00:40:21.440
Like if you're listening to this call and you have a job or you've ever had a job, you're an investor.
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.760
You might just be a sleepy one, you know?
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.559
So it's helping people wake up to that realization that this is their money, you're in control.
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:41.679
And yeah, treat it like a necessary thing, like treat it like your health and well-being, you know, like you, like your exercise, as you put it, to learn and practice a little bit more.
00:40:41.760 --> 00:41:00.240
And then things become easier and they become habits, which is, you know, really what we want people to think about, you know, in terms of, yeah, moving from that world, like that chasm that you described, is we're going from sort of everyday banking to sophisticated investor, and it feels like there's nothing in between.
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:18.480
And it feels like I could never do that running jump across the massive ditch, you know, from hey, I've got a mortgage and a savings account, and, you know, that's kind of it, to oh my, oh my goodness, I understand the markets and I've got different, I've got crypto and all sorts of different types of investments.
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:24.159
We do need stuff to meet people in the middle and hold their hand across that massive gap.
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:30.639
And that's where I see the great opportunity, you know, for things that you're doing yourself and things that tap the gap can do.
00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:32.880
And yeah, working together, right?
00:41:33.119 --> 00:41:36.720
With with women and with community institutions.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:38.159
Like it's just been so lovely.
00:41:38.240 --> 00:41:44.400
I've had lots of people reach out lately saying, hey, like the people in my community be really interested in this.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:45.599
Let's work together.
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:47.920
And I kind of love that, right?
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:59.920
Like I love that collaboration is the heart of what can drive change in this space, as opposed to, I don't know, just expecting people to kind of work it out for themselves, right?
00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.400
And I think that's what women are fantastic at.
00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:04.720
We're really good collaborators at heart.
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:11.599
So women in business, we stick together and we're all here to pull each other up the ladder, which is what I'm finding.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:19.119
I think that sentiment, you know, yes, we can talk about the doom and gloom of the 2%, which, you know, is is tragic.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:25.360
But I I know that that's changing and I know that there's a shift there, and I can feel it with the people around me.
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:40.960
Uh, and even the way that I see the ecosystem now, even after 18 months of being in it, like I will try and help anyone who needs help, you know, and I will give them my time when I can because I know what it's like to be, you know, further back in the journey.
00:42:41.039 --> 00:42:45.440
And you need that help because you need people to encourage you because the odds are stacked against you.
00:42:45.599 --> 00:43:02.079
So yeah, I th I think we're at a stage where things are, you know, moving in the right direction, both for women in technology to build these businesses and also for women in investing to really understand not just the basics, but yeah, to move forward in in their progression.
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:04.079
Huge, huge, huge, huge.
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:20.079
And I know like as we're about to uh wrap things up, and I wanna implore all the women who are listening to this as well to like have your feet into investing, have your feet into tech, uh would love to know from your side, Lucy.
00:43:20.240 --> 00:43:29.199
You know, you you've worked um in advertising, you've launched a book, you've produced a book, and now producing fintech company software.
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:32.240
What would you advise to 20-year-olds today?
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:33.039
20 year olds.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:33.679
Okay.
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:34.880
So two things.
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:36.079
Just it, enjoy.
00:43:36.240 --> 00:43:39.840
Enjoy being young and optimistic, which I love.
00:43:39.920 --> 00:43:42.720
I'm a forever optimist, but do stay optimistic.
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:49.679
And I know there's lots of challenges out there for you thinking the world ahead is really uncertain, but you have power in your optimism, right?
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:51.599
You can shape the world any way you want.
00:43:51.840 --> 00:44:06.480
In terms of your finances, and particularly when it comes to super, if you're in your 20s, just stop what you're doing and look at your super app right now and see what you've got in there and don't panic or don't think that, oh, I'll do this later.
00:44:06.720 --> 00:44:07.519
Start now.
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:08.480
Start today.
00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:14.320
Even if it's$5 a week that you want to put in, you know, just know that time is on your side.
00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.720
And, you know, whether you think I'm this older woman trying to give you this sage advice or whatever, um, take it as you will.
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:23.360
But honestly, you will thank me.
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:26.240
You'll be you'll be telling people about this later on.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:29.760
So know that if you're 20, time is on your side.
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:38.720
And the choices you make now will set up the choices that you're able to make later in life because financial independence creates choice.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:43.199
And that's all I want for the women of Australia and around the world is to have choice.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:43.920
There you go.
00:44:44.079 --> 00:44:45.519
All the options that you have.
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.320
And that's really the goal of investing as well.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:54.960
It's yes, it can make you a billionaire, millionaire, but also it gives you choice and option.
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:55.360
Yeah.
00:44:55.519 --> 00:44:55.840
Yeah.
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.119
And that's what you deserve.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:45:07.039
That's what all women deserve because we all work hard, whether you're working at home, looking after children, caring for someone, or working in the workplace and being paid wages.
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:12.240
We all work hard throughout our lifetimes and we always care for other people, often ahead of ourselves.
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:18.639
So yeah, getting your financial independence and making sure that you build that for yourself creates choice.
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:25.760
And that's everything from leaving a job, leaving, you know, walking away from a bad relationship, traveling or starting a business.
00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:29.440
When you have that great foundation, you can do whatever you want.
00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:31.760
And you'll probably do something awesome, right?
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:33.039
And we need more of that.
00:45:33.360 --> 00:45:36.159
Well, thanks, Lucy, for being on the pod.
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:41.840
I'm so excited to get this released and people know more about Tap the Gap.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:42.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:47.280
So look, if you're if Tap the Gap is of interest to you, you can jump on our website.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:52.400
We've got a web app right now, and we're pending release in App Store and Google Play.
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:55.840
So that's coming in the next, you know, couple of weeks, hopefully.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:58.400
Just like get your skates on over there at Apple.
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.599
And yeah, we've got a 14-day free trial.
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:07.199
So sign up, connect your bank, try and do it all in one go because we know what life's like.
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.880
Just take five minutes, get it set up, and then away you go.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.320
And yeah, love to hear from you.
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:14.800
Reach out via our website.
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:19.039
Yeah, and follow us on tap.theGap on Instagram.
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.440
Thank you for listening to another episode of Fiery Femmes.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:29.360
If this resonated, share it with a woman in your life because we rise higher when we rise together.
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:31.440
Don't forget to follow and review.
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:36.159
It helps more women access the tools and conversations that build wealth and confidence.
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:42.000
For more career and financial empowerment, come hang out on Instagram and YouTube at FieryFams.
00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:44.480
I'll see you in the next episode.
