Navigating Tech Due Diligence: Insights from Punit Goyal

1
00:00:06,466 --> 00:00:07,900
you're listening to the Far Side

2
00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:09,866
with founders and Leaders Podcast

3
00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:13,400
the podcast that gives you a behind the scenes look

4
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:14,400
of some of the world's most

5
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:16,100
amazing founders and leaders

6
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,366
looking at their journeys

7
00:00:17,366 --> 00:00:19,766
and how they got to where they are today

8
00:00:23,033 --> 00:00:23,700
hello everyone

9
00:00:23,700 --> 00:00:26,733
and welcome to this latest edition of the fireside

10
00:00:26,733 --> 00:00:28,600
with founders and leaders podcast

11
00:00:28,833 --> 00:00:29,200
today

12
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,633
I'm delighted to be joined by the brilliant Punit Goyal

13
00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:37,100
who is technology director over at PE firm Aurelius

14
00:00:37,433 --> 00:00:37,833
so

15
00:00:37,833 --> 00:00:41,133
we talk all about how he's got to that position today

16
00:00:41,133 --> 00:00:42,700
of course but also

17
00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,966
we go into some really interesting insights

18
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,800
around what it's like to work in that position

19
00:00:50,033 --> 00:00:53,200
what he's looking for when he's doing due diligence

20
00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:53,700
um

21
00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,100
when they're looking to acquire new portfolio companies

22
00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,400
as that private equity firm

23
00:00:59,433 --> 00:01:03,400
we look at sometimes how due diligence can fall short

24
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,200
in the tech space what to look out for

25
00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,433
if you're looking to be acquired

26
00:01:08,433 --> 00:01:09,900
by a private equity firm

27
00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,333
if you're a technology leader in that space

28
00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,733
the things you can do to really carve out value

29
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,333
and the things that they're generally looking for

30
00:01:19,333 --> 00:01:23,266
we also delve into what really happens after that P

31
00:01:23,266 --> 00:01:24,766
deal is complete

32
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,700
and what it's really like to be on the inside

33
00:01:27,733 --> 00:01:30,400
some super interesting insights in this one

34
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,000
so stay tuned and enjoy

35
00:01:33,700 --> 00:01:35,566
so Punit welcome to the podcast

36
00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,033
thank you for having me oh no

37
00:01:37,033 --> 00:01:38,433
thank you for coming coming in

38
00:01:38,433 --> 00:01:40,900
so look I think we've got some really

39
00:01:40,900 --> 00:01:44,333
really interesting and exciting topics to talk about

40
00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:48,033
through your career working with P E firms

41
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,533
um perhaps unlocking and demystifying some

42
00:01:51,533 --> 00:01:52,633
some myths that

43
00:01:52,633 --> 00:01:55,400
that we know of things that we've talked about um

44
00:01:55,433 --> 00:01:58,700
before so before we get into all of that uh

45
00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:00,433
I wanna talk a bit about you

46
00:02:00,433 --> 00:02:01,633
your history and your career

47
00:02:01,633 --> 00:02:03,400
so you're currently um

48
00:02:03,533 --> 00:02:06,666
you're it and technology director for Aurelius

49
00:02:06,666 --> 00:02:07,233
yes uh

50
00:02:07,233 --> 00:02:08,333
you haven't always worked there

51
00:02:08,333 --> 00:02:10,433
you've had a had a career history before that

52
00:02:10,433 --> 00:02:12,500
so talk to us a bit more about

53
00:02:12,500 --> 00:02:14,533
how you got into the technology sector

54
00:02:14,533 --> 00:02:16,600
and then also how you got into

55
00:02:16,633 --> 00:02:17,333
you know working with

56
00:02:17,333 --> 00:02:19,300
with PE firms um

57
00:02:19,300 --> 00:02:21,233
as your your first venture

58
00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:22,600
sure I'm Punit

59
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,300
I started working in the field of technology

60
00:02:25,300 --> 00:02:26,933
about 22 years back yeah

61
00:02:27,266 --> 00:02:27,833
before that

62
00:02:27,833 --> 00:02:30,066
I did my majors and bachelors of engineering

63
00:02:30,066 --> 00:02:31,200
in information systems

64
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,133
I've always been intrigued by technology how it

65
00:02:34,133 --> 00:02:38,966
it can help uh businesses and corporates in

66
00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:43,900
automating things making life easier for everyone

67
00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:47,600
I started my career as a software engineer uh

68
00:02:49,633 --> 00:02:51,600
and a lot of work I did early in my career

69
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,633
was in the space of ERP delivery

70
00:02:54,066 --> 00:02:57,733
uh and I was always intrigued by uh

71
00:02:58,066 --> 00:02:59,800
why certain projects happen

72
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,600
what's the business rational for that

73
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,300
how are we creating solving a business problem

74
00:03:05,066 --> 00:03:08,466
and that intrigue and curiosity always

75
00:03:08,466 --> 00:03:09,800
drove me to understand

76
00:03:10,466 --> 00:03:11,600
what's the business problem

77
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:12,700
why are we doing something

78
00:03:12,700 --> 00:03:14,866
and throughout my career

79
00:03:14,866 --> 00:03:17,233
I've evolved roles from a software engineer

80
00:03:17,233 --> 00:03:19,766
to integration architect solution architect

81
00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:21,800
project management then

82
00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:25,233
delivering and managing large transformation programs

83
00:03:25,233 --> 00:03:26,300
yup uh

84
00:03:26,533 --> 00:03:29,333
enabled by technology large enterprise applications

85
00:03:29,866 --> 00:03:31,100
uh ERP

86
00:03:31,100 --> 00:03:32,300
Oracle specifically

87
00:03:32,833 --> 00:03:36,400
I work with big uh vendors like Oracle Consulting

88
00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:38,566
P W C and EY

89
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,800
and a lot of the works you do in ERP space

90
00:03:41,833 --> 00:03:43,433
is a result of

91
00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:47,166
a deal or a transaction mergers and acquisitions

92
00:03:47,533 --> 00:03:47,900
either

93
00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:50,766
it's carving out a business and making it stand alone

94
00:03:50,933 --> 00:03:52,966
operationally from a big corporate

95
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:54,300
or

96
00:03:55,233 --> 00:03:56,900
an organization has acquired another business

97
00:03:56,900 --> 00:03:59,400
and integrating that within their own business yeah

98
00:04:00,066 --> 00:04:02,766
so leading those programs from a technology angle

99
00:04:04,666 --> 00:04:07,166
it's been I've been doing that for many years now

100
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:13,100
and most of those transactions were a result of a P E

101
00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:17,000
buying something from a corporate or a P E

102
00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:18,300
integrating

103
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,500
into a portfolio as a buy and build strategy

104
00:04:21,733 --> 00:04:23,833
nice so that's what uh

105
00:04:24,866 --> 00:04:26,300
brought me to Aurelius as well

106
00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:30,466
and within Aurelius we have an Ops advisory team

107
00:04:30,466 --> 00:04:32,866
which enables and helps all the

108
00:04:32,866 --> 00:04:36,400
portfolio companies on the technology landscape

109
00:04:36,633 --> 00:04:38,133
so we support uh

110
00:04:38,866 --> 00:04:41,533
our deal teams throughout the deal life cycle

111
00:04:41,533 --> 00:04:43,533
before even a transaction happens in technology

112
00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:44,333
due diligence

113
00:04:44,933 --> 00:04:46,333
where we look at

114
00:04:48,266 --> 00:04:50,666
how easy or difficult it would be yeah

115
00:04:50,666 --> 00:04:52,900
to carve out that business from a corporate

116
00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:55,033
or to make it run independently

117
00:04:55,033 --> 00:04:56,566
what would it cost yeah

118
00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,766
what time it might take uh

119
00:04:59,833 --> 00:05:01,400
what are the risks yeah

120
00:05:02,033 --> 00:05:05,433
uh how we can use technology as a value creation tool

121
00:05:05,433 --> 00:05:09,100
either reducing operational cost

122
00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:11,233
mm hmm improving the processes

123
00:05:11,533 --> 00:05:14,033
or using it as a value creation tool

124
00:05:14,300 --> 00:05:17,133
of making a business omni channel digital

125
00:05:17,633 --> 00:05:20,400
uh opening up new revenue work streams yeah

126
00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:23,833
and that's what I'm currently doing

127
00:05:24,133 --> 00:05:26,066
for the various portfolio companies being

128
00:05:26,066 --> 00:05:29,100
leading some of the major transformation programs

129
00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:31,266
as well as uh

130
00:05:31,266 --> 00:05:33,700
stabilizing them carving them out uh

131
00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:36,766
or making them ready for an exit uh

132
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,466
so that's where I am now nice

133
00:05:39,466 --> 00:05:40,133
okay very good

134
00:05:40,133 --> 00:05:40,933
so the and it's

135
00:05:40,933 --> 00:05:43,533
it's quite a pivotal role right in an organization

136
00:05:43,533 --> 00:05:44,000
as you say

137
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,300
there's lots of things that you need to determine um

138
00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:49,900
with your team I'm assuming uh to

139
00:05:49,900 --> 00:05:52,000
to make sure that you're weighing UPS

140
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,433
of the risk versus reward

141
00:05:53,433 --> 00:05:54,133
as you say

142
00:05:54,133 --> 00:05:56,466
and the cost and the opportunity and the benefit

143
00:05:56,466 --> 00:05:59,533
and how easy is it to implement these things

144
00:05:59,533 --> 00:06:01,033
into the portfolio companies

145
00:06:01,033 --> 00:06:02,700
can they turn it around quickly

146
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,300
how do you how did you get into that

147
00:06:05,300 --> 00:06:07,900
going from someone who's starting as a

148
00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:09,633
a software engineer and then as you say

149
00:06:09,633 --> 00:06:11,300
sort of working with other companies

150
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:13,200
always in the ERP system so

151
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,333
you're obviously a bit of a domain expert

152
00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:16,833
with ERP systems that

153
00:06:16,833 --> 00:06:18,100
that's quite clear

154
00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,500
how do you go and transition into that role

155
00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:21,866
that you're in now from

156
00:06:21,866 --> 00:06:23,100
from where you were before

157
00:06:23,133 --> 00:06:25,800
so I think the few things some of our

158
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:27,533
some of these were deliberate and some of them

159
00:06:27,533 --> 00:06:31,233
life happened and I've been uh open

160
00:06:31,333 --> 00:06:33,966
curious and adapting to situations

161
00:06:34,533 --> 00:06:37,000
so and as opportunities present them

162
00:06:37,433 --> 00:06:41,000
I see I think it's a good area for me to learn more

163
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:42,200
it's interesting

164
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,200
exciting for me and this is where I can make an impact

165
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:46,900
this is where I can add value

166
00:06:47,833 --> 00:06:51,500
so that curiosity of making an impact

167
00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:52,700
creating value

168
00:06:53,133 --> 00:06:57,533
and understanding why we are doing certain things yeah

169
00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,366
before jumping into the what's and how

170
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:01,400
that always

171
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,733
and that why always keeps the focus as well

172
00:07:04,733 --> 00:07:06,633
mm hmm of what are we trying to achieve

173
00:07:06,633 --> 00:07:08,600
and sometimes you get uh

174
00:07:09,333 --> 00:07:11,000
distractions noise

175
00:07:11,666 --> 00:07:12,933
but once you have the clarity of why

176
00:07:12,933 --> 00:07:19,200
we are doing something it helps to uh remove that uh

177
00:07:20,033 --> 00:07:22,100
ambiguity or noise

178
00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:24,866
and focus on what should we prioritize

179
00:07:24,866 --> 00:07:27,600
where should where can we get the best value yeah

180
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:27,866
nice

181
00:07:27,866 --> 00:07:30,666
and it is as you say for you about solving problems

182
00:07:30,666 --> 00:07:31,866
right that's how you started

183
00:07:31,866 --> 00:07:32,900
and that's how

184
00:07:32,900 --> 00:07:35,733
most people start in sort of engineering of any sort

185
00:07:35,733 --> 00:07:37,733
whether that's software or physical engineering

186
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,666
I think even drawing comparisons from that

187
00:07:39,666 --> 00:07:42,700
so it's problem solving at its at its core right

188
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,866
yes problems solving and solving for who

189
00:07:45,866 --> 00:07:48,800
yeah is it making life

190
00:07:50,133 --> 00:07:52,700
a few clicks easier for somebody in the business

191
00:07:52,700 --> 00:07:58,533
yup or is it really creating value by automating

192
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,333
reducing risk uh

193
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,833
making the platform attractive for potential buyers

194
00:08:03,833 --> 00:08:04,633
making

195
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:06,000
uh

196
00:08:07,433 --> 00:08:08,900
true efficiencies are

197
00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,833
not just saving one or two hours a week for somebody

198
00:08:13,133 --> 00:08:16,033
that in my terms is not actual value

199
00:08:16,033 --> 00:08:17,266
because if you are not

200
00:08:17,266 --> 00:08:20,166
taking the cost out from an organization yeah

201
00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:21,233
that's not efficiency

202
00:08:21,233 --> 00:08:23,900
it's just making somebody's life a bit easier yeah OK

203
00:08:24,066 --> 00:08:26,166
and and you spend a lot of time

204
00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:28,000
like with portfolio companies right

205
00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,700
working working with them to

206
00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:33,333
to either go and buy their buy their business

207
00:08:33,333 --> 00:08:36,366
buy the product buy into it from the P firm um

208
00:08:36,700 --> 00:08:38,400
like what are the the things that

209
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,333
when you walk into a portfolio company

210
00:08:40,333 --> 00:08:42,000
that you're looking at that go

211
00:08:42,066 --> 00:08:44,633
tell you this is either gonna be a great

212
00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,533
you know product or great

213
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:48,300
uh great business to implement

214
00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:50,233
or if this is gonna be messy

215
00:08:50,233 --> 00:08:50,433
like

216
00:08:50,433 --> 00:08:52,300
what are the first three things that you're generally

217
00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,133
looking at in that scenario

218
00:08:54,133 --> 00:08:57,233
so I think I look at three things all in combination

219
00:08:57,500 --> 00:08:58,700
so you can have a great product

220
00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:00,233
but if you don't have a great team

221
00:09:00,233 --> 00:09:01,333
mm hmm uh

222
00:09:02,233 --> 00:09:05,333
that may wither down because we cannot enhance

223
00:09:05,333 --> 00:09:07,700
improve the product uh

224
00:09:07,733 --> 00:09:09,700
for the evolving market needs

225
00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,633
or where the competition is heading

226
00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:14,100
or where

227
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,500
uh it might be disrupted by others

228
00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:18,966
uh huh we also need a good team

229
00:09:19,133 --> 00:09:20,000
good leadership

230
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,566
who can provide direction and management

231
00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:25,700
to deliver those outcomes

232
00:09:26,033 --> 00:09:30,100
and sometimes we just need to marry up

233
00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,500
those leadership with the shareholder values

234
00:09:33,500 --> 00:09:38,533
or shareholder goals of where we see the best value

235
00:09:38,933 --> 00:09:42,300
sometimes modernization or moving to cloud yeah

236
00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:46,533
seen by a lot of technology leaders as a Panacea yeah

237
00:09:46,700 --> 00:09:49,933
but that may or may not always create value

238
00:09:49,933 --> 00:09:53,033
so if you're moving something from on prem to a cloud

239
00:09:53,466 --> 00:09:55,000
or moving from

240
00:09:55,933 --> 00:09:58,700
uh physical hardware to Amazon or Azure

241
00:09:59,666 --> 00:10:02,600
you're doing a lift and shift yeah it may reduce

242
00:10:05,333 --> 00:10:08,433
certain cost but you are just doing the same thing

243
00:10:08,433 --> 00:10:10,366
what you're doing in the old system in a newer

244
00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:14,166
brand new application or brand new infrastructure

245
00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:19,033
so in my head the main thing is why are we doing it

246
00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,033
where do we see the best value

247
00:10:21,033 --> 00:10:23,200
hmm in context of NRP

248
00:10:23,266 --> 00:10:24,066
yup

249
00:10:24,533 --> 00:10:26,933
implementation or transformation

250
00:10:27,233 --> 00:10:30,800
it's how are the processes going to be different okay

251
00:10:31,233 --> 00:10:34,600
how are they going to be more resilient

252
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,400
yup

253
00:10:36,066 --> 00:10:37,666
how do we reduce shadow it

254
00:10:37,666 --> 00:10:41,533
and people working in Excel around as workarounds

255
00:10:41,533 --> 00:10:42,333
yeah

256
00:10:42,866 --> 00:10:43,666
uh

257
00:10:43,733 --> 00:10:45,466
and how do we standardize across

258
00:10:45,466 --> 00:10:48,033
if our corporation or companies

259
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,033
spread across countries or divisions or departments

260
00:10:51,833 --> 00:10:54,000
do they have the common understanding of

261
00:10:54,133 --> 00:10:57,366
what revenue is what margin is what costs are

262
00:10:58,600 --> 00:10:59,300
and if they are

263
00:10:59,300 --> 00:11:01,433
following a similar or standardized processes

264
00:11:01,433 --> 00:11:02,333
across the country

265
00:11:02,333 --> 00:11:04,866
because everybody says we are unique

266
00:11:04,866 --> 00:11:06,900
we are different we do things differently here

267
00:11:07,533 --> 00:11:08,800
but most businesses

268
00:11:09,666 --> 00:11:11,400
80 to 90% is the same yup

269
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,333
they buy something from their suppliers

270
00:11:14,333 --> 00:11:18,300
yup add some value and then sell it to their customers

271
00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:21,500
yup and there that's where they create value yeah

272
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:23,533
yeah so a lot of it is

273
00:11:23,533 --> 00:11:27,133
could be standardized could be fit

274
00:11:27,333 --> 00:11:29,933
fitted within a solution from a software vendor

275
00:11:29,933 --> 00:11:31,000
be it SAP SAP

276
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,833
Oracle Workday or Microsoft or any uh

277
00:11:34,833 --> 00:11:35,333
it just

278
00:11:35,333 --> 00:11:39,666
that aligning those people to what the vision would be

279
00:11:39,666 --> 00:11:41,200
what the processes would be

280
00:11:41,633 --> 00:11:44,300
and with that processes what's a target operating model

281
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:45,533
from a people perspective

282
00:11:45,533 --> 00:11:46,133
yeah I can

283
00:11:46,133 --> 00:11:47,800
and taking those people on that journey

284
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,300
that how it's beneficial for them

285
00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:51,833
how it will help them deliver the values

286
00:11:52,033 --> 00:11:52,633
yeah nice

287
00:11:52,633 --> 00:11:55,066
so it's a lot about the people then that are in

288
00:11:55,066 --> 00:11:56,533
in that organization yes

289
00:11:56,533 --> 00:11:59,033
so I never find technology as a challenge

290
00:11:59,033 --> 00:12:01,833
yeah I think the biggest challenge is

291
00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:04,833
uh having clarity on that

292
00:12:04,833 --> 00:12:07,666
the outcomes how it would look yeah

293
00:12:07,666 --> 00:12:11,566
okay and then how it would be a win win

294
00:12:11,666 --> 00:12:12,833
it's not a zero sum game

295
00:12:12,833 --> 00:12:14,633
that somebody wins or somebody loses

296
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:16,300
it could be a win win for the colleagues

297
00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:19,233
employees that they have experience of working on

298
00:12:19,233 --> 00:12:21,433
delivering large ERP programs

299
00:12:21,433 --> 00:12:22,833
which they can add to their CV

300
00:12:22,833 --> 00:12:24,633
mm hmm it could mean

301
00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:27,333
uh the organization is more resilient

302
00:12:27,333 --> 00:12:29,000
adaptable flexible

303
00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:34,600
yup and even the vendors who are helping implement

304
00:12:34,833 --> 00:12:36,366
it's not a one time job

305
00:12:37,133 --> 00:12:39,533
uh once you implement an enterprise application

306
00:12:39,533 --> 00:12:41,733
once you go live the job is not done yeah

307
00:12:41,733 --> 00:12:43,233
that's just the first stage

308
00:12:43,533 --> 00:12:44,500
that's the uh

309
00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:46,000
starting point of how

310
00:12:46,733 --> 00:12:50,500
uh where you can further incrementally uh

311
00:12:50,533 --> 00:12:53,133
make minor improvements on a ongoing

312
00:12:53,133 --> 00:12:54,400
continuous improvement basis

313
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,200
yeah okay

314
00:12:55,466 --> 00:12:56,933
and that's where I think uh

315
00:12:56,933 --> 00:12:58,600
some organizations think

316
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,200
we have done a large transformation program

317
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,200
we have handed life

318
00:13:01,933 --> 00:13:04,600
that's where the journey ends yeah I think that's a

319
00:13:05,933 --> 00:13:06,433
myth

320
00:13:06,433 --> 00:13:09,733
and also sometimes that's what a wrong notion to have

321
00:13:09,733 --> 00:13:10,300
yeah okay

322
00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:11,500
and especially I think that's the reason

323
00:13:11,500 --> 00:13:11,666
like

324
00:13:11,666 --> 00:13:14,800
a lot of vendors have moved on to a SAS cloud version

325
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,533
where they continuously provide new functionality

326
00:13:17,533 --> 00:13:19,433
every quarter every six months

327
00:13:19,533 --> 00:13:21,833
and it's for those organization to pick and choose

328
00:13:21,833 --> 00:13:23,766
what works for them and how

329
00:13:24,466 --> 00:13:25,266
uh

330
00:13:25,633 --> 00:13:26,200
they can

331
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,100
derive the benefits of the investment they have made

332
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,233
yeah and technology is changing of course all the time

333
00:13:30,233 --> 00:13:32,000
right so as you say

334
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,733
to think you're doing this big transformation

335
00:13:33,733 --> 00:13:35,166
and then that's it done

336
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,066
we're out uh

337
00:13:37,066 --> 00:13:38,266
it's not really the case for the

338
00:13:38,266 --> 00:13:40,433
for the business because technology is gonna change

339
00:13:40,433 --> 00:13:41,833
so they're gonna have to keep

340
00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:44,866
keep changing and evolving as technology

341
00:13:44,866 --> 00:13:47,833
transforms itself ultimately yeah

342
00:13:47,833 --> 00:13:49,400
I think I just take uh

343
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,666
analogy from personal health goals and stuff

344
00:13:52,666 --> 00:13:54,500
like you can go on a crash diet

345
00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:55,400
lose some weight

346
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,900
or go to a fitness class for six months and

347
00:14:00,066 --> 00:14:03,733
be slightly fitter but it's about the habits and the

348
00:14:04,633 --> 00:14:07,700
things you do on a daily basis around discipline

349
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:08,766
consistency

350
00:14:09,333 --> 00:14:10,200
around uh

351
00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,966
making that one person incremental improvement

352
00:14:14,066 --> 00:14:15,500
uh every month

353
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:16,800
every week yeah

354
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,666
you'll be better than what you were six months back

355
00:14:18,666 --> 00:14:19,766
12 months back

356
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:22,300
and you can apply that in any corporate scenario

357
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:24,800
or organisation as well that uh

358
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,833
it's the journey doesn't end

359
00:14:27,833 --> 00:14:29,200
it's continuous improvement

360
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,800
and you need to be consistent persistent

361
00:14:33,466 --> 00:14:34,400
there'll be

362
00:14:35,833 --> 00:14:37,000
challenges mm hmm

363
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,500
uh you might have to pivot

364
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,400
you might have to pivot because of

365
00:14:41,833 --> 00:14:44,100
geopolitical or competition

366
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:47,766
or changing strategy because

367
00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:49,700
the organization decided to

368
00:14:49,733 --> 00:14:51,733
sell off a part of the business or yup

369
00:14:51,733 --> 00:14:54,566
have a another acquisition uh

370
00:14:54,866 --> 00:14:59,133
but I think having that consistency and deliberate

371
00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:01,133
focus on

372
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:04,400
how we can improve making uh

373
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:07,033
small incremental improvements

374
00:15:07,033 --> 00:15:11,466
yep so I'm really influenced by the book Atomic Habits

375
00:15:11,466 --> 00:15:11,800
yeah yeah

376
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:12,400
I was gonna say this

377
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,400
sounds a lot like stuff that I've seen from Atomic

378
00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:14,700
Habits

379
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:18,066
those small incremental changes that really helps

380
00:15:18,066 --> 00:15:22,600
and yeah also like sometimes making uh

381
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,400
short term call versus uh

382
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,400
medium to long term sustainable things

383
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,566
so sometimes you can make short term cost efficiencies

384
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,100
or things but that may harm the organization

385
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:41,100
and being a sustainable resilient organization or

386
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,966
creating unnecessary risks or yep

387
00:15:46,633 --> 00:15:49,433
making the business less scalable and

388
00:15:49,433 --> 00:15:51,833
and you see obviously a lot of uh

389
00:15:51,833 --> 00:15:54,066
sort of your deals go through and you know

390
00:15:54,066 --> 00:15:55,166
companies that

391
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,166
the firm will be looking at any one time

392
00:15:58,233 --> 00:15:59,233
like what's the

393
00:15:59,233 --> 00:16:03,066
the reality between like what's being offered as

394
00:16:03,066 --> 00:16:05,900
as a sale as a business versus the reality of what

395
00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:07,633
what you might be buying yeah

396
00:16:07,633 --> 00:16:10,533
do they differ quite wildly sometimes

397
00:16:10,533 --> 00:16:12,600
uh majority of the time yeah

398
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,533
so and it happens uh because once you're buying

399
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,833
the seller is in a sales mode yeah

400
00:16:20,833 --> 00:16:23,500
so they're polishing up a old car yeah

401
00:16:24,033 --> 00:16:27,000
so what's looking a spanking

402
00:16:27,133 --> 00:16:29,700
well polished car may have a failing engine

403
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:30,500
yeah

404
00:16:31,466 --> 00:16:34,700
secondly like when you're doing a due diligence uh

405
00:16:34,733 --> 00:16:36,700
it's a short period of time 4 weeks

406
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:39,033
6 weeks so you can go to the surface

407
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,900
and the people who are available for you to question

408
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:45,833
or examine that's asset may not have the details yeah

409
00:16:45,833 --> 00:16:48,833
you might look at the application landscape and see

410
00:16:48,833 --> 00:16:49,733
you have a

411
00:16:50,433 --> 00:16:51,733
a modern system

412
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:53,500
but you can't

413
00:16:54,233 --> 00:16:56,266
know exactly what

414
00:16:56,266 --> 00:16:58,500
functionality of that system is being used

415
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:01,400
and what's being done outside the system in Excel

416
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,833
and manual workarounds

417
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:04,700
also uh

418
00:17:06,666 --> 00:17:09,366
when you're buying a bigger complex target

419
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:11,333
they may have operations

420
00:17:11,333 --> 00:17:12,633
different in different countries

421
00:17:12,633 --> 00:17:14,766
or different applications in different countries

422
00:17:14,933 --> 00:17:16,800
and you cannot get all the details

423
00:17:17,466 --> 00:17:19,033
uh up front

424
00:17:19,033 --> 00:17:22,966
yeah and third is there's a gap between when you

425
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,733
the seller has prepared a due diligence report or

426
00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:28,000
the architecture and the roadmap

427
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:29,700
when you do a due diligence

428
00:17:30,533 --> 00:17:31,866
and when the deal is signed

429
00:17:31,866 --> 00:17:33,600
and the deal is closed yeah

430
00:17:33,833 --> 00:17:36,633
so sometimes that can be period of three months

431
00:17:36,633 --> 00:17:37,833
or up to a year or 12

432
00:17:37,833 --> 00:17:41,600
18 months and during that time things evolve

433
00:17:41,633 --> 00:17:42,533
mm hmm uh

434
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,633
either due to external factors like tariffs yeah

435
00:17:46,633 --> 00:17:47,800
gas prices tax

436
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,600
uh

437
00:17:48,866 --> 00:17:49,900
or

438
00:17:51,333 --> 00:17:52,333
market cycles

439
00:17:52,333 --> 00:17:55,433
let certain products which were selling amazingly well

440
00:17:55,433 --> 00:17:57,300
yeah when we did the due diligence

441
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,500
may not be doing that well

442
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,133
once we have the ownership of that asset

443
00:18:03,133 --> 00:18:04,500
does that happen yeah

444
00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:05,766
reasonable amount of times

445
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,033
usually it happens yes yeah

446
00:18:08,666 --> 00:18:09,666
is that just

447
00:18:09,666 --> 00:18:11,500
purely down to the length of time it takes

448
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,933
to go through the

449
00:18:12,933 --> 00:18:15,300
so it's not just that it's also like uh

450
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,466
also because sometimes some of the numbers

451
00:18:19,466 --> 00:18:22,133
some of the things metrics are presented in a way

452
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,933
which may not be a true reflection as well okay

453
00:18:25,033 --> 00:18:26,200
it's a mix of combination

454
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,600
so and the third thing I would say is like

455
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:29,633
when you're doing a due diligence

456
00:18:29,633 --> 00:18:30,766
there might be people

457
00:18:30,833 --> 00:18:34,633
you think are capable and running the business

458
00:18:34,633 --> 00:18:37,233
mm hmm but when you do acquire a business

459
00:18:37,233 --> 00:18:39,333
some of them may or may not be part of the transaction

460
00:18:39,333 --> 00:18:41,233
transfer of the company yup

461
00:18:41,333 --> 00:18:42,433
especially the leadership

462
00:18:42,433 --> 00:18:43,733
uh huh or they might leave

463
00:18:43,733 --> 00:18:45,466
because they are not aligned with the new ownership

464
00:18:45,466 --> 00:18:47,233
or the new goals of the new organization

465
00:18:47,233 --> 00:18:48,600
yup and when they leave

466
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:49,933
they leave a gap knowledge gap

467
00:18:49,933 --> 00:18:51,100
experience gap

468
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:52,733
or sometimes

469
00:18:52,733 --> 00:18:54,600
they have been running that business for far too long

470
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,733
say 15 years 10 years

471
00:18:55,733 --> 00:18:58,233
so they can't think outside the box of how to do

472
00:18:58,233 --> 00:18:59,200
things differently yeah

473
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,766
yeah or they can run the business in Bau

474
00:19:01,866 --> 00:19:04,033
yeah but they don't know how to transform

475
00:19:04,033 --> 00:19:04,533
yeah yeah

476
00:19:04,533 --> 00:19:05,900
which is and that's the biggest

477
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:06,466
biggest thing

478
00:19:06,466 --> 00:19:08,233
for anyone who's been leading and running a business

479
00:19:08,233 --> 00:19:10,433
for that length of time ultimately as well

480
00:19:10,433 --> 00:19:13,033
they're giving up their their baby

481
00:19:13,266 --> 00:19:14,833
yeah potentially it alters my

482
00:19:14,833 --> 00:19:16,500
one of their children for some people

483
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:17,500
giving up that business

484
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,800
and you're relinquishing a lot of control

485
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:21,833
and then it's a different way of thinking

486
00:19:21,833 --> 00:19:25,033
like a P E mindset is quite different

487
00:19:25,033 --> 00:19:27,500
in the sense that it's very commercially minded

488
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,733
commercial acumen is quite key

489
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,533
yeah and a lot of

490
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:35,733
technology people are not that commercially

491
00:19:36,233 --> 00:19:39,600
able to explain or create the narrative of how

492
00:19:40,133 --> 00:19:44,333
a certain initiative could be creating value

493
00:19:44,333 --> 00:19:45,600
in the terms of

494
00:19:46,133 --> 00:19:47,633
a bit up yeah

495
00:19:47,633 --> 00:19:50,500
or growth revenue growth and things like that

496
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:51,966
so they might see uh

497
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,500
migrating from a 20 year old system

498
00:19:55,333 --> 00:19:57,500
it needs to be happen yeah

499
00:19:57,633 --> 00:19:59,800
and they might create a five year road map

500
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,666
to move all their applications

501
00:20:01,666 --> 00:20:02,466
from

502
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:05,600
older version of SAP or Oracle to yeah

503
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:06,633
the latest version of SAP

504
00:20:06,633 --> 00:20:09,300
Hana or Oracle Fusion Cloud and things like that

505
00:20:09,933 --> 00:20:11,133
that needs to be looked at

506
00:20:11,133 --> 00:20:12,600
what's the business benefit

507
00:20:13,133 --> 00:20:16,300
and sometimes if you have a investment cycle of

508
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,200
from a PE perspective

509
00:20:18,266 --> 00:20:20,500
a exit horizon of three to five years or seven years

510
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:21,300
uh huh

511
00:20:21,666 --> 00:20:24,000
uh from a PE shareholder perspective

512
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,133
you're looking at could we deliver value sooner

513
00:20:27,133 --> 00:20:29,533
mm hmm and we have to deprioritize things

514
00:20:29,533 --> 00:20:32,900
which we may or may not feel confident around

515
00:20:33,533 --> 00:20:36,166
will it give the value in the over holding period

516
00:20:36,266 --> 00:20:42,133
yeah so it's a balance between the shareholder uh

517
00:20:42,133 --> 00:20:44,933
priorities versus for the organization needs

518
00:20:45,333 --> 00:20:48,533
in a medium to long run sustainable business

519
00:20:48,533 --> 00:20:51,633
yeah and what would you say are the most overlooked

520
00:20:51,733 --> 00:20:54,733
factors in due diligence that are done on deals

521
00:20:56,066 --> 00:20:58,233
so sometimes in a due diligence

522
00:20:58,233 --> 00:21:03,033
uh technology is not considered as a key driver okay

523
00:21:03,066 --> 00:21:03,333
so

524
00:21:03,333 --> 00:21:07,766
just the commercial value or the market or the sector

525
00:21:08,666 --> 00:21:11,666
uh but sometimes technology can be a deal breaker

526
00:21:11,666 --> 00:21:14,700
or a red flag in the sense that

527
00:21:14,733 --> 00:21:17,333
it could be overtly complex to separate the business

528
00:21:17,333 --> 00:21:18,533
or run it as a stand alone

529
00:21:18,533 --> 00:21:21,366
because either they do not have the capacity capability

530
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,900
uh or

531
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:28,600
the right tools and applications mm hmm

532
00:21:29,866 --> 00:21:32,600
and the transition of ownership

533
00:21:32,633 --> 00:21:34,533
creates a bit of uncertainty

534
00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:38,066
insecurity for the initial three to six months

535
00:21:38,066 --> 00:21:42,100
yup and that is a challenge

536
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:42,866
yeah and

537
00:21:42,866 --> 00:21:43,733
and have you ever seen

538
00:21:43,733 --> 00:21:46,666
sort of deals where the technology looked OK on paper

539
00:21:46,666 --> 00:21:48,466
but when you sort of lift the

540
00:21:48,466 --> 00:21:49,733
lift the hood up so to speak

541
00:21:49,733 --> 00:21:52,500
it's crumbling yes

542
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,100
a lot of the times because uh

543
00:21:55,666 --> 00:21:59,400
usually it's a combination of factors

544
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:00,800
so when a seller

545
00:22:01,133 --> 00:22:03,766
a corporate seller is usually trying to divest

546
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,433
a non core asset

547
00:22:06,866 --> 00:22:08,733
either that's either a non growth area

548
00:22:08,733 --> 00:22:10,700
slow growth area or it's not profitable area

549
00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:12,566
yeah so

550
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,066
and they start that thinking process 12 months

551
00:22:15,066 --> 00:22:17,000
18 months 24 months down the line

552
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,566
so in that process what they usually do is

553
00:22:19,933 --> 00:22:23,966
reduce the investment and modernization expense okay

554
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,200
uh so they do not start a big ERP transformation

555
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:28,500
just before they're about to sell

556
00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:29,300
yup

557
00:22:29,466 --> 00:22:32,200
so a lot of times when we acquire assets or companies

558
00:22:32,866 --> 00:22:35,300
they would be having a 20 year old ERP

559
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:36,800
which is out of support

560
00:22:37,033 --> 00:22:43,666
is a security risk or has a low availability goes down

561
00:22:43,666 --> 00:22:46,566
yeah during peak seasons or peak periods

562
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:49,466
which reduces the ability to sell more

563
00:22:49,466 --> 00:22:52,033
or invoice the customers on time

564
00:22:52,033 --> 00:22:54,700
yeah or get the uh

565
00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:56,666
best discounts from the vendors and stuff

566
00:22:56,666 --> 00:22:58,633
so that happens all the time

567
00:22:58,633 --> 00:23:00,000
I was gonna say it probably sounds like it's

568
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,800
it's quite a common theme if you're

569
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,166
if you're going in cause your whole

570
00:23:05,300 --> 00:23:07,400
purpose and plan will be to go and

571
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,600
transform and upgrade everything

572
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,833
so I'd imagine it's probably sort of

573
00:23:11,866 --> 00:23:13,933
cracking at the seams quite often

574
00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:15,566
yes it is yeah

575
00:23:15,866 --> 00:23:17,900
and and do you find that is it

576
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:18,866
is it a challenge

577
00:23:18,866 --> 00:23:21,200
or does that make things easier to go in and say

578
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:21,733
well look

579
00:23:21,733 --> 00:23:22,900
it is what it is

580
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:24,733
we know we can get more value out of it

581
00:23:24,733 --> 00:23:29,166
because I can see instantly where I can make some

582
00:23:29,266 --> 00:23:30,700
some change I was gonna say quick changes

583
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:31,933
it's not necessarily quick changes

584
00:23:31,933 --> 00:23:34,833
but some you can easily spot those changes

585
00:23:34,833 --> 00:23:38,133
and then you know how you're gonna get that value add

586
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,266
look at the increasing the EBIT Dar as you say

587
00:23:40,266 --> 00:23:42,100
all those sort of things that you're trying to do to

588
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:46,233
to drive more revenue into the business to get

589
00:23:46,333 --> 00:23:48,666
you know maximum out of it when you

590
00:23:48,666 --> 00:23:50,033
when you eventually sort of look to

591
00:23:50,033 --> 00:23:51,733
to move it on so yes

592
00:23:51,733 --> 00:23:52,700
there are two aspects to it

593
00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:54,266
so when we are looking at a due diligence

594
00:23:54,266 --> 00:23:56,300
we form of a investment thesis

595
00:23:56,300 --> 00:23:59,100
of how we could scale the business

596
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:00,133
grow the business

597
00:24:00,466 --> 00:24:03,133
what would the potential exit look like yeah

598
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:05,133
that may change over the period of time

599
00:24:05,133 --> 00:24:07,333
but we have those investment theses to see

600
00:24:07,333 --> 00:24:10,966
this is how we'll create value either by reducing cost

601
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,800
adding new digital channels things like that

602
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,666
and so once we have after day one

603
00:24:21,666 --> 00:24:23,500
once we have owned the company

604
00:24:24,133 --> 00:24:25,600
we go into the details

605
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,900
look at where are we spending every penny

606
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:28,700
mm hmm

607
00:24:29,033 --> 00:24:31,200
what are essential what are non essentials

608
00:24:32,333 --> 00:24:33,333
what major programs

609
00:24:33,333 --> 00:24:35,900
and projects are aligned to the strategy

610
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:36,966
we have yup

611
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:38,300
and sometimes

612
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:41,833
we are very ruthless to reduce the portfolio

613
00:24:41,833 --> 00:24:43,866
projects to bare minimum

614
00:24:43,866 --> 00:24:47,466
so that we reduce any unnecessary spend

615
00:24:47,466 --> 00:24:49,533
any contracts long term contracts

616
00:24:49,533 --> 00:24:54,000
we don't get into them and then first three months

617
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,633
we have a good understanding of the capability

618
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,933
yup within the organizations create come up

619
00:24:58,933 --> 00:25:01,000
with a transformation road map for next 12 months

620
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,966
24 months

621
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,033
look at what capabilities we need to build it

622
00:25:05,033 --> 00:25:07,933
uh either through leadership interim rules

623
00:25:08,466 --> 00:25:09,966
uh partners

624
00:25:10,033 --> 00:25:12,266
either system implementation partner consultancies

625
00:25:12,266 --> 00:25:13,900
boutique consultancies in those areas

626
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:17,066
yup and create a road map 12 month

627
00:25:17,066 --> 00:25:20,000
24 months and sometimes we take some

628
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,433
make some early quick wins of uh

629
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,866
making tactical things so one things

630
00:25:25,866 --> 00:25:26,733
which is

631
00:25:26,866 --> 00:25:29,300
quite critical in most of our portfolio is data

632
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:31,300
and dashboards and reporting

633
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,233
yeah around how are we doing on a daily basis

634
00:25:34,233 --> 00:25:36,500
so in some corporates when we acquire them

635
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:38,400
it takes them weeks to understand

636
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:40,433
how did the business did two weeks back

637
00:25:40,433 --> 00:25:41,733
three weeks back yeah

638
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,900
uh having that real time

639
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:45,733
or near real time visibility

640
00:25:45,733 --> 00:25:48,900
helps on how the business is heading on a daily basis

641
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:49,900
weekly basis

642
00:25:50,433 --> 00:25:52,800
then we can make informed decision in our buying

643
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,866
for the next season next year

644
00:25:54,866 --> 00:25:59,300
yup how to procure or what to target to our customers

645
00:25:59,500 --> 00:26:01,366
so having some tactical dashboards

646
00:26:01,500 --> 00:26:03,266
using simple tools like Power BI

647
00:26:03,266 --> 00:26:06,966
with data from their legacy ERPs or excels

648
00:26:07,133 --> 00:26:09,500
yeah and then in the meantime working on a roadmap

649
00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:11,633
how to make that a production ready

650
00:26:11,633 --> 00:26:17,100
standardize automated a BI platform similarly like a

651
00:26:19,466 --> 00:26:23,100
in corporates it takes a lot of time to decide what

652
00:26:23,100 --> 00:26:25,866
product to go with or what vendor to go with in ERP

653
00:26:25,866 --> 00:26:26,666
yup

654
00:26:26,733 --> 00:26:30,266
and that exercise of vendor selection can take 6 months

655
00:26:30,266 --> 00:26:31,366
9 months mm hmm

656
00:26:32,066 --> 00:26:34,833
but having worked long enough in P environments

657
00:26:34,833 --> 00:26:37,466
I understand that you have your thesis

658
00:26:37,466 --> 00:26:41,733
you have your gut feel and you never like get 100%

659
00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:43,600
all the data you need to make a decision

660
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:44,333
yeah okay

661
00:26:44,333 --> 00:26:46,233
so don't sacrifice uh

662
00:26:46,733 --> 00:26:48,933
good for perfection yeah

663
00:26:48,933 --> 00:26:50,266
start with something yeah

664
00:26:50,266 --> 00:26:53,733
even if you have 60% 70% and then we can course correct

665
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:54,600
yeah okay

666
00:26:54,900 --> 00:26:56,633
so things which are reversible

667
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,333
make easy quick decisions

668
00:26:58,333 --> 00:26:59,300
yep move ahead

669
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:00,900
things which are irreversible

670
00:27:01,066 --> 00:27:03,866
have it think through take your time

671
00:27:03,866 --> 00:27:05,433
but not too much yeah

672
00:27:05,466 --> 00:27:07,466
is that saying of sometimes done is better than not

673
00:27:07,466 --> 00:27:08,000
right yeah

674
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:08,100
so

675
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:11,066
you get paralyzed by wanting everything to be perfect

676
00:27:11,066 --> 00:27:12,300
and then you don't start and that

677
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:15,500
that could be worse than making a few mistakes

678
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:17,033
and then going as you say

679
00:27:17,033 --> 00:27:19,000
you make some quick decisions on those mistakes

680
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,266
and go back and reverse them pretty quickly

681
00:27:21,266 --> 00:27:23,900
yeah and also it's also around uh

682
00:27:25,533 --> 00:27:30,533
having that agility of Mark evolving market situations

683
00:27:30,533 --> 00:27:31,633
things like that

684
00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:35,000
sometimes you have to look at conserving cash

685
00:27:35,433 --> 00:27:39,666
uh to have the business operational in current 3 months

686
00:27:39,666 --> 00:27:41,100
6 months rather than looking at 3 years

687
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:42,533
5 years window uh huh

688
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,600
and sometimes it's looking at that long term horizon of

689
00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:46,700
uh

690
00:27:47,133 --> 00:27:49,033
and mixing that up yep

691
00:27:49,066 --> 00:27:49,800
okay nice

692
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,900
and in terms of those those um

693
00:27:52,900 --> 00:27:53,533
sort of deals and so

694
00:27:53,533 --> 00:27:55,433
it sounds like sometimes it can be like

695
00:27:55,433 --> 00:27:59,066
12 months before you even start making any changes to

696
00:27:59,066 --> 00:28:01,200
to the organization does

697
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,400
that generally sort of shock leadership people when

698
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:05,833
when they when you're going in

699
00:28:05,833 --> 00:28:07,800
or they think things are gonna happen instantly

700
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,533
like what's the feeling normally from the inside

701
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,800
so it's a mix some people are energized

702
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,400
yeah because they are

703
00:28:16,666 --> 00:28:18,366
sometimes frustrated with the sloppiness

704
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,766
or the inability to take decisions and move ahead

705
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,300
so they are energized and they are uh

706
00:28:25,266 --> 00:28:27,533
aligned to what the new owners would do

707
00:28:27,533 --> 00:28:30,233
mm hmm it's also a fact that

708
00:28:30,833 --> 00:28:33,966
uh within a PE environment when a business is acquired

709
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:36,700
majority of the leadership and the exec

710
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:39,433
or the C suite changes within the first 12 months yeah

711
00:28:39,433 --> 00:28:41,033
I think I was reading somewhere at

712
00:28:41,033 --> 00:28:44,100
the figure is between somewhere to 70 to 90% okay

713
00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:46,066
fairly fairly sizable yeah

714
00:28:46,066 --> 00:28:48,200
so that's a big change yeah

715
00:28:48,533 --> 00:28:53,133
the whole leadership change and uncertainty around that

716
00:28:53,133 --> 00:28:55,433
and when they move the second layer

717
00:28:55,433 --> 00:28:56,866
they usually take them with them as well

718
00:28:56,866 --> 00:28:59,300
so managing that transition

719
00:28:59,300 --> 00:29:00,333
mm hmm uh

720
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,300
with communication managing with

721
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:04,133
providing them the comfort that it's

722
00:29:04,133 --> 00:29:05,833
for the better of the organization

723
00:29:06,133 --> 00:29:11,433
and also creating that balance between

724
00:29:12,733 --> 00:29:14,866
creating a win win situation for both sides

725
00:29:14,866 --> 00:29:15,666
mm hmm

726
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,466
yep and

727
00:29:16,466 --> 00:29:17,933
and that's what it's gotta be right

728
00:29:17,933 --> 00:29:21,133
it's gotta be everyone's getting something out of it

729
00:29:21,133 --> 00:29:22,833
it can't just be this uh

730
00:29:22,833 --> 00:29:25,200
like one person smash and grab

731
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:26,000
otherwise

732
00:29:26,633 --> 00:29:29,266
it all falls down because people are not then on board

733
00:29:29,266 --> 00:29:31,300
you've got one person going against the other

734
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,300
and it's a loggerheads have you ever seen that

735
00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:34,900
that sort of scenario play out

736
00:29:34,933 --> 00:29:36,933
uh not in that sense

737
00:29:36,933 --> 00:29:39,566
but in the sense that sometimes when uh

738
00:29:40,833 --> 00:29:42,800
pre deal or just before a deal

739
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,333
somebody will come up with an investment thesis

740
00:29:44,333 --> 00:29:46,200
and a roadmap for value creation

741
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,500
yeah they are usually external customer

742
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:51,266
consultants or advisors who have not

743
00:29:51,266 --> 00:29:53,233
never worked in a business before

744
00:29:53,233 --> 00:29:54,033
right

745
00:29:54,433 --> 00:29:59,566
so sometimes that strategy may or may not work in

746
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:03,033
real life scenarios okay

747
00:30:03,033 --> 00:30:04,833
so that's one of the challenge

748
00:30:04,933 --> 00:30:06,500
uh and secondly

749
00:30:06,866 --> 00:30:09,333
uh sometimes you have

750
00:30:10,633 --> 00:30:14,200
a different kind of incentives for vendors and partners

751
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:16,900
so they want to maximize their own revenue

752
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:17,700
yup

753
00:30:18,066 --> 00:30:22,733
uh but I work with them in a collaborative fashion

754
00:30:22,733 --> 00:30:25,600
to say it's a long term relationship

755
00:30:26,466 --> 00:30:28,933
it's not just you do one piece of job and you're away

756
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:30,633
yeah it's a long term relationship

757
00:30:30,633 --> 00:30:31,866
not just within that portfolio

758
00:30:31,866 --> 00:30:33,033
but other portfolio companies

759
00:30:33,033 --> 00:30:35,100
if they do a good job in one portfolio company

760
00:30:35,633 --> 00:30:40,533
we use them massively in other portfolio companies and

761
00:30:42,033 --> 00:30:44,233
so we create the right incentives for each vendor

762
00:30:44,233 --> 00:30:47,700
either through is it a fixed price or is it yeah

763
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,100
diamond material with milestones

764
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:53,433
and where they have a skin in the game as well

765
00:30:53,433 --> 00:30:53,866
yeah

766
00:30:53,866 --> 00:30:56,666
in the outcomes rather than just a time and material

767
00:30:56,666 --> 00:30:57,500
yeah it makes sense

768
00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,000
because then everyone's driven

769
00:30:59,033 --> 00:31:00,466
to work towards that outcome

770
00:31:00,466 --> 00:31:01,000
right

771
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,600
rather than just everybody working on their own silos

772
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,066
or towards their own goals

773
00:31:05,066 --> 00:31:06,333
yeah exactly which

774
00:31:06,333 --> 00:31:08,033
which can be uh

775
00:31:08,033 --> 00:31:09,966
detrimental to the whole thing

776
00:31:10,133 --> 00:31:11,866
I think it's the as I mentioned

777
00:31:11,866 --> 00:31:14,100
like previously like it's a main thing of uh

778
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:17,266
working in leadership role is alignment

779
00:31:17,266 --> 00:31:19,533
and alignment of the stakeholders

780
00:31:19,533 --> 00:31:20,933
the shareholders uh huh

781
00:31:20,933 --> 00:31:22,600
they're executing the portfolio companies

782
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:25,933
and from that driving the vendors and their

783
00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,300
junior teams to work towards that outcome

784
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:30,066
yeah nice

785
00:31:30,066 --> 00:31:32,033
and it talked earlier about um

786
00:31:32,033 --> 00:31:35,500
like data and getting data out and looking at the data

787
00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:36,400
seeing what it's telling you

788
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,366
using platforms like Power BI

789
00:31:38,766 --> 00:31:41,433
obviously the data is what the data is

790
00:31:41,433 --> 00:31:43,300
you can't control the data

791
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,233
that's been there historically

792
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,133
um but I'd imagine things have become

793
00:31:48,133 --> 00:31:50,600
slightly easier over the last couple of years

794
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:51,100
especially with

795
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:55,000
with AI modernizing how we can read data

796
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,966
get access to it quickly analyze it

797
00:31:58,066 --> 00:31:59,300
has that has that helped

798
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,366
so speed up transactions yes

799
00:32:02,733 --> 00:32:04,666
also it's massively helped

800
00:32:04,666 --> 00:32:06,966
mm hmm and a lot of the leaders

801
00:32:07,066 --> 00:32:09,633
operating partners are the exes

802
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:13,533
are now quite fluent in some of the generators

803
00:32:13,633 --> 00:32:15,766
yeah and they try

804
00:32:15,866 --> 00:32:18,233
a cloud or a co pilot to

805
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,100
analyze large amount of data themselves

806
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:20,900
and the

807
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,633
uh and sometimes it's very good

808
00:32:23,633 --> 00:32:25,333
because that provides them the visibility

809
00:32:25,666 --> 00:32:27,266
either good or bad yeah

810
00:32:27,266 --> 00:32:28,900
and also sometimes it uh

811
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:32,533
opens up all the challenges the business had

812
00:32:32,533 --> 00:32:34,800
because if you have poor data in

813
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
you'll get poor insights correct yeah

814
00:32:37,233 --> 00:32:41,533
so a sales team may have a different view of revenue

815
00:32:41,533 --> 00:32:43,400
versus a finance team or accounting team

816
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,633
yeah or the margins

817
00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:47,333
yeah or

818
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,533
our organization may have the same customer names

819
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:53,300
at three different ways in three different systems

820
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:54,200
uh huh

821
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,733
uh somewhere it may be an IBM

822
00:32:55,733 --> 00:32:57,500
somewhere it may be an IBM Limited

823
00:32:57,500 --> 00:32:59,166
or somewhere it may be IBM UK

824
00:32:59,533 --> 00:33:01,900
I've seen that before and

825
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:04,466
they can't get a clear view of

826
00:33:04,466 --> 00:33:05,300
how much are they spending

827
00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:06,733
with a single vendor yeah

828
00:33:06,733 --> 00:33:10,833
or how much is a single customer buying from them

829
00:33:10,833 --> 00:33:12,466
yeah it's really

830
00:33:12,466 --> 00:33:14,000
that's a really common

831
00:33:14,666 --> 00:33:15,533
uh sort of issue

832
00:33:15,533 --> 00:33:17,700
I think a lot of across a lot of businesses

833
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:20,100
no matter what they're doing is that sort of

834
00:33:20,100 --> 00:33:21,666
especially across multiple customer

835
00:33:21,666 --> 00:33:23,533
large scale organizations

836
00:33:23,533 --> 00:33:24,600
different countries

837
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,133
they're really trying to get on different systems

838
00:33:26,133 --> 00:33:27,766
yeah all on different systems

839
00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:29,033
it's uh

840
00:33:29,033 --> 00:33:29,200
it's

841
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,933
I think it's more of a governance and operational topic

842
00:33:31,933 --> 00:33:33,800
rather than a pure technology topic

843
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,933
hmm so it's around who is owning that data

844
00:33:36,933 --> 00:33:38,533
yeah who is owning that process

845
00:33:38,533 --> 00:33:39,333
yeah

846
00:33:39,666 --> 00:33:41,900
once there's an ownership and accountability

847
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:42,833
within the business

848
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,400
uh

849
00:33:44,733 --> 00:33:46,100
technology falls into place

850
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,300
yeah the technology works right

851
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:49,400
ultimately as you say

852
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,266
it's not the technology you're normally looking at

853
00:33:51,266 --> 00:33:53,833
it's the it's the people and how they

854
00:33:53,833 --> 00:33:55,200
how they're utilizing the technology

855
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,733
and the systems that are in place

856
00:33:56,733 --> 00:33:58,300
to get the most out of it

857
00:33:58,566 --> 00:33:59,033
and also

858
00:33:59,033 --> 00:34:01,600
like a lot of these tools are helping in the sense

859
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,533
like especially the AI tools are helping

860
00:34:04,066 --> 00:34:04,866
uh

861
00:34:05,833 --> 00:34:09,466
in making that analysis quicker

862
00:34:09,466 --> 00:34:10,766
mm hmm uh

863
00:34:11,333 --> 00:34:14,033
the initial drafts easier to make previously

864
00:34:14,033 --> 00:34:15,333
something which used to take 4 weeks

865
00:34:15,333 --> 00:34:18,833
6 weeks can be done in a matter of hours yeah

866
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,066
so if I look at software delivery or ERP delivery

867
00:34:23,066 --> 00:34:27,500
like I remember programs which were 3 years 5 years and

868
00:34:28,866 --> 00:34:31,333
there are team of five or six colleagues working on

869
00:34:31,333 --> 00:34:33,500
preparing test scripts and test documentation

870
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,166
for 3 months five months yeah

871
00:34:35,833 --> 00:34:40,333
that can be done in hours because AI can generate you

872
00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:44,000
first draft which is 80% 90% there

873
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:45,300
then you just need to tailor it

874
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:46,466
for your specific organization

875
00:34:46,466 --> 00:34:48,566
for your specific use case

876
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,000
that can accelerate a lot of it things

877
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:53,600
but you still need that human judgement human

878
00:34:57,133 --> 00:34:59,366
lenses on top of it does it cover everything

879
00:34:59,466 --> 00:35:01,100
are we missing some

880
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,766
gaps or are we overlooking some blind spots

881
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:08,000
or what have we Learned from our experience

882
00:35:08,233 --> 00:35:09,833
or what may or may not work in

883
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,133
within this specific context

884
00:35:11,133 --> 00:35:12,433
or within this organization

885
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,200
and do you think it can become an issue whereby people

886
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,600
you say AI is great at getting you to sort of 80

887
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,500
maybe 90% of the way there

888
00:35:21,500 --> 00:35:24,800
but there's sometimes an over reliance on uh

889
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,533
not not checking the work that AI is doing

890
00:35:27,533 --> 00:35:29,466
people that I've seen have

891
00:35:29,466 --> 00:35:31,133
have sort of looked at it and go well

892
00:35:31,133 --> 00:35:34,500
I'll just use AI and it's fine and then pump it out

893
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:37,033
not really looking through using your human

894
00:35:37,033 --> 00:35:38,233
human eye to to

895
00:35:38,233 --> 00:35:40,900
really sort of your fact check and make sure that it's

896
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:42,233
it's giving you the right information

897
00:35:42,233 --> 00:35:43,533
that you're looking for yeah

898
00:35:43,533 --> 00:35:45,733
I think uh tools are maturing

899
00:35:45,733 --> 00:35:51,633
it's a new landscape and AI tools are probabilistic

900
00:35:51,633 --> 00:35:52,833
they are not deterministic

901
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,500
so if you ask the same question two different times

902
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:58,600
you might get a two different answers

903
00:35:59,333 --> 00:36:00,866
and you're never sure

904
00:36:00,866 --> 00:36:02,266
what's the calculation being used

905
00:36:02,266 --> 00:36:04,400
or what's the logic being used yeah

906
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,933
or what was the logic you used two weeks back

907
00:36:08,133 --> 00:36:12,600
you have a new version of a model every few weeks and

908
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:13,400
uh

909
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,433
what they calculated two months back

910
00:36:16,433 --> 00:36:17,533
versus what it calculates

911
00:36:17,533 --> 00:36:20,433
or shows you the data may be totally different yeah

912
00:36:20,433 --> 00:36:22,000
and it's also like how you prompt

913
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,500
or how you ask a specific question yeah

914
00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,900
so I'll give you an example

915
00:36:28,033 --> 00:36:31,033
like if you ask any GNI tool

916
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,733
what's the benefits of Ozempic for example

917
00:36:37,733 --> 00:36:38,866
yeah yeah yeah

918
00:36:38,866 --> 00:36:41,400
it will give you that it's a Panacea for diabetes

919
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,033
it's a Panacea for weight loss

920
00:36:43,066 --> 00:36:44,400
and it has so many positives

921
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,000
mm hmm but if you ask the same genie I told

922
00:36:47,033 --> 00:36:48,000
what are the side effects

923
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,433
it will show you all doom and gloom

924
00:36:49,433 --> 00:36:50,300
yeah yeah

925
00:36:50,433 --> 00:36:53,200
here we go sunny says you're right a lot

926
00:36:53,333 --> 00:36:55,433
it tends AI tends to agree with us

927
00:36:55,433 --> 00:36:58,433
to make us feel positive about how we're

928
00:36:58,433 --> 00:36:59,733
how we sort of interacting with it

929
00:36:59,733 --> 00:37:01,500
so it's also like what questions you ask

930
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:02,700
how you ask yeah

931
00:37:02,833 --> 00:37:05,100
and it is probabilistic

932
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:10,400
it is a best guess or based on that experience

933
00:37:10,466 --> 00:37:13,533
it may or may not have the full set of data

934
00:37:13,533 --> 00:37:16,533
yup it may not be nuanced enough

935
00:37:16,533 --> 00:37:18,733
uh based on the context you are in

936
00:37:18,933 --> 00:37:20,666
do you think we'll see some

937
00:37:20,666 --> 00:37:22,533
some issues coming out of this though

938
00:37:22,533 --> 00:37:24,000
as we go down the line

939
00:37:24,266 --> 00:37:27,533
I say deals being done by people using AI to

940
00:37:27,533 --> 00:37:29,333
to do some of their due diligence

941
00:37:29,333 --> 00:37:32,000
and not doing their own due diligence on

942
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:36,866
on the AI so let's not say it will be because of AI

943
00:37:36,866 --> 00:37:39,966
it's again back to the human diligence around

944
00:37:40,533 --> 00:37:41,333
uh

945
00:37:41,533 --> 00:37:43,000
have you cross checked everything

946
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000
yup also around

947
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,933
and it can happen without AI tools as well

948
00:37:46,933 --> 00:37:47,500
like yup

949
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,600
there's a lot of things to consider when you're doing

950
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,433
making a decision mm hmm and

951
00:37:53,666 --> 00:37:56,000
I think AI will help reduce some of those things

952
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,800
because

953
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,200
uh as a human

954
00:37:58,700 --> 00:38:00,866
you can do as much as possible

955
00:38:00,866 --> 00:38:02,600
like when you're doing a diligence

956
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,366
and looking at hundred contracts

957
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,333
each contract is 50 page or hundred page

958
00:38:06,333 --> 00:38:07,433
you can't go through a single

959
00:38:07,433 --> 00:38:09,266
every single line and find that out

960
00:38:09,266 --> 00:38:13,000
yeah but if you turn that through an AI engine

961
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,433
which can process hundred contracts line by line

962
00:38:15,433 --> 00:38:18,166
and look at what things to look at uh

963
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:19,600
the red flags

964
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,133
or things which might impact the long term journey

965
00:38:23,133 --> 00:38:26,100
yup so I think it will help more on the positive side

966
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:27,066
rather than the negative side

967
00:38:27,066 --> 00:38:29,700
yup there's always some potential bad actors

968
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:32,133
especially in the space of cyber or hackers and stuff

969
00:38:32,133 --> 00:38:34,366
which would try to

970
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:35,900
uh

971
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,000
misuse it but I think

972
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:41,600
every technology has more good than the negatives

973
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,000
just making sure that people are prepared to

974
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,600
to use it in a correct way

975
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,833
where they're not just relying on it 100% blindly

976
00:38:49,833 --> 00:38:51,333
exactly that and they

977
00:38:51,333 --> 00:38:53,233
and they need to question it uh

978
00:38:53,266 --> 00:38:55,666
and just say how are these numbers right

979
00:38:55,666 --> 00:38:56,833
what was the calculation used

980
00:38:56,833 --> 00:38:58,033
where did you find this fact

981
00:38:58,033 --> 00:38:59,433
yup or did you just made it up

982
00:38:59,433 --> 00:39:00,000
yeah OK

983
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,066
yeah that yeah

984
00:39:01,066 --> 00:39:03,066
sometimes it does have a habit of making things up

985
00:39:03,066 --> 00:39:05,533
and also you talked about going through contracts

986
00:39:05,533 --> 00:39:06,733
you need to make sure you're

987
00:39:06,733 --> 00:39:07,933
telling it what to look for

988
00:39:07,933 --> 00:39:09,800
you need to know what you're looking for

989
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,533
you can't just say to an AI

990
00:39:11,533 --> 00:39:13,466
well you can just say to an AI platform

991
00:39:13,466 --> 00:39:15,700
look through this contract and show me some red flags

992
00:39:15,700 --> 00:39:16,500
but

993
00:39:16,866 --> 00:39:20,400
you need to want it to tell it what the red flags are

994
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,900
that you're potentially on the lookout for

995
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:23,533
yeah um

996
00:39:23,533 --> 00:39:25,033
rather than just expecting it to know

997
00:39:25,033 --> 00:39:26,200
and that comes from experience

998
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,066
that comes from having you burned your hands few times

999
00:39:29,066 --> 00:39:30,533
yeah yeah yeah

1000
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:32,033
I think that's that's the key right

1001
00:39:32,033 --> 00:39:34,133
you only get you only learn from experience

1002
00:39:34,133 --> 00:39:35,633
by actually going through

1003
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,100
getting your hands burnt through some of these things

1004
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:40,300
and going I didn't see that in there

1005
00:39:40,300 --> 00:39:41,333
so you

1006
00:39:41,333 --> 00:39:43,500
need to make sure you're going back and double checking

1007
00:39:43,533 --> 00:39:45,900
and sometimes it's not humanly possible to

1008
00:39:46,066 --> 00:39:49,100
like some people are extremely diligent

1009
00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:50,100
detail oriented

1010
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:52,400
and they can go through every line and make it out

1011
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,666
lawyers and legal teams have been doing that

1012
00:39:54,666 --> 00:39:56,233
paralegals have been doing that for long

1013
00:39:56,233 --> 00:39:58,700
yup but humanly

1014
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:02,700
it's impossible to look at every possible detail

1015
00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:04,633
every TS and CS

1016
00:40:04,633 --> 00:40:09,733
and the caveats or assumptions and things like that

1017
00:40:09,733 --> 00:40:12,033
so you'll never be hundred percent there

1018
00:40:12,033 --> 00:40:15,733
but I think it will help uh reduce the risk

1019
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,333
yup and you've worked with tech leaders in

1020
00:40:19,333 --> 00:40:21,433
in various of PE backed um

1021
00:40:21,433 --> 00:40:22,733
firms that that you've

1022
00:40:22,733 --> 00:40:24,733
you've had as a portfolio companies

1023
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:26,333
what do you think

1024
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,633
makes the difference between a tech leader

1025
00:40:28,633 --> 00:40:31,833
in a PE backed organisation that thrives

1026
00:40:31,833 --> 00:40:33,400
versus one that struggles

1027
00:40:33,900 --> 00:40:35,366
in a PE backed environment

1028
00:40:36,466 --> 00:40:39,200
tech leaders needs to be commercially minded okay

1029
00:40:39,833 --> 00:40:41,500
as a lot of tech leaders are great

1030
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:43,033
tech leaders who can deliver

1031
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,700
could take outcomes

1032
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,900
but they may or may not be commercial

1033
00:40:49,133 --> 00:40:51,633
in the sense of how is it adding value

1034
00:40:52,066 --> 00:40:54,766
how is it reducing risk

1035
00:40:54,866 --> 00:40:58,433
and being able to communicate to stakeholders

1036
00:40:58,633 --> 00:40:59,433
uh

1037
00:40:59,833 --> 00:41:03,133
in terms of the language they understand yeah

1038
00:41:03,433 --> 00:41:05,733
so if a tech leader

1039
00:41:05,733 --> 00:41:09,333
circumstances will modernize from on prem

1040
00:41:09,333 --> 00:41:10,633
hardware to cloud

1041
00:41:12,033 --> 00:41:16,633
uh P s holder may ask what does that mean why yeah

1042
00:41:16,633 --> 00:41:17,633
what does that mean yeah

1043
00:41:17,633 --> 00:41:21,266
or how is adding value or reducing risk or uh

1044
00:41:21,266 --> 00:41:22,400
adding to your exit

1045
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,633
multiples or how is it attractive to a buyer

1046
00:41:24,633 --> 00:41:27,766
yeah so I think being able to communicate

1047
00:41:28,233 --> 00:41:31,266
to the stakeholders in the terms they understand

1048
00:41:31,266 --> 00:41:32,233
to the CEOs

1049
00:41:32,233 --> 00:41:36,766
to the Chief operating Officers that this is how

1050
00:41:37,333 --> 00:41:39,300
this is why we're doing this initiative

1051
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,800
this is how it will create cost reduction

1052
00:41:42,866 --> 00:41:44,033
value creation

1053
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:48,800
growth or reducing a cyber risk which can impact

1054
00:41:50,433 --> 00:41:52,800
either operations and things like that

1055
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,266
yup if you look at recent examples

1056
00:41:54,266 --> 00:41:57,000
last year of marks and Spencer's or co op and others

1057
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,633
the business was uh impacted massively for a quarter

1058
00:42:00,633 --> 00:42:03,200
because they were not able to sell online

1059
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,400
and things like that yup

1060
00:42:04,500 --> 00:42:06,900
so not to create panic

1061
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:09,000
but also to put that a number to say okay

1062
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,100
if we do this we're reducing the risk by this

1063
00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:14,933
this will create a resiliency

1064
00:42:14,933 --> 00:42:17,033
or we are able to operate during peaks

1065
00:42:18,066 --> 00:42:19,100
they won't understand okay

1066
00:42:19,100 --> 00:42:23,133
if we increase the capacity of a server by xgb RAM

1067
00:42:23,133 --> 00:42:25,966
or what our processing power by this

1068
00:42:26,066 --> 00:42:27,300
what does it mean so yeah

1069
00:42:27,300 --> 00:42:30,333
they need to be translated into a language

1070
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,666
uh financial leaders or yup

1071
00:42:33,666 --> 00:42:35,433
people's for number crunching understand

1072
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,000
so it's being that having business business savvy

1073
00:42:39,066 --> 00:42:40,233
so next commercial acumen

1074
00:42:40,233 --> 00:42:42,833
commercial acumen and being like operationally

1075
00:42:43,233 --> 00:42:44,766
the second thing I would say is being

1076
00:42:44,833 --> 00:42:47,166
on top of their operational numbers

1077
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,433
yup having their KPIs understood that uh

1078
00:42:50,533 --> 00:42:51,800
where are they spending

1079
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,433
are there still room and being

1080
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,600
constantly monitoring their spend

1081
00:42:56,700 --> 00:42:58,333
on various initiatives mm hmm

1082
00:42:58,333 --> 00:43:00,533
and third is having a focused portfolio

1083
00:43:00,533 --> 00:43:02,300
so sometimes they start too many initiatives

1084
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:03,733
all in parallel yeah

1085
00:43:04,066 --> 00:43:06,633
which are vying for the same human resources

1086
00:43:06,633 --> 00:43:08,700
or decisions

1087
00:43:09,333 --> 00:43:11,466
so I always work with them and to say

1088
00:43:11,466 --> 00:43:14,966
have a shorter list of focused programs

1089
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:16,600
uh

1090
00:43:17,266 --> 00:43:19,600
which deliver value so it's better always to do

1091
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:20,900
deliver three programs well done

1092
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:24,133
rather than 10 programs which are faltering yeah

1093
00:43:24,133 --> 00:43:24,633
yeah and

1094
00:43:24,633 --> 00:43:27,300
and do you see that often when you go into

1095
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:29,666
to portfolio companies yes yup

1096
00:43:29,666 --> 00:43:31,133
especially if uh

1097
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,133
they're acquiring a business from a big corporate

1098
00:43:34,133 --> 00:43:37,666
where they have higher standards of governance

1099
00:43:37,666 --> 00:43:39,433
or red tape and bureaucracy

1100
00:43:39,433 --> 00:43:44,000
mm hmm and they want to be extra cautious on everything

1101
00:43:44,666 --> 00:43:45,600
decision making

1102
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,633
everything has to go through multiple change boards

1103
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,166
enterprise architecture security architects

1104
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:54,133
uh that decision takes time

1105
00:43:54,666 --> 00:43:58,233
so need to create a balance between speed and safety

1106
00:43:58,266 --> 00:43:59,233
and and how do you do that

1107
00:43:59,233 --> 00:44:01,500
because there sometimes there's pressure

1108
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:02,666
right to get things done quickly

1109
00:44:02,666 --> 00:44:04,300
especially in the modern world

1110
00:44:04,300 --> 00:44:07,166
and when you've got timelines of uh

1111
00:44:07,266 --> 00:44:09,300
you wanna get through a transformation program in

1112
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,466
so however however long that it's gonna do

1113
00:44:11,466 --> 00:44:13,433
or implementing new ERP

1114
00:44:13,433 --> 00:44:16,233
whatever it is that you're you're going through alright

1115
00:44:16,233 --> 00:44:20,233
how do you balance that that speed versus uh

1116
00:44:20,266 --> 00:44:21,066
so due diligence

1117
00:44:21,066 --> 00:44:23,433
of making sure you're doing the right thing

1118
00:44:23,433 --> 00:44:25,400
so there are two things I usually do

1119
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,700
one is like

1120
00:44:26,733 --> 00:44:28,333
things which can be reversed easily

1121
00:44:28,333 --> 00:44:30,000
or without much impact mm hmm

1122
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,933
make quick decisions things which require

1123
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:34,733
thought through like

1124
00:44:34,733 --> 00:44:37,000
if you're signing a three year contract with a vendor

1125
00:44:37,266 --> 00:44:38,800
mm hmm think through properly

1126
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,600
yeah so things which are irreversible

1127
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:42,866
think through properly yeah

1128
00:44:42,866 --> 00:44:43,900
but more time

1129
00:44:44,833 --> 00:44:47,300
things which are easily reversible

1130
00:44:47,300 --> 00:44:50,100
or without major impact make quick decisions

1131
00:44:51,533 --> 00:44:53,533
and the second would be around

1132
00:44:53,533 --> 00:44:55,533
don't wait for a perfect answer

1133
00:44:55,533 --> 00:44:59,700
yup you will have a good picture and good gut feel

1134
00:44:59,733 --> 00:45:02,066
judgement when you have 50 to 60

1135
00:45:02,066 --> 00:45:04,366
70% data yeah

1136
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,333
and with your experience uh

1137
00:45:07,433 --> 00:45:09,633
uh having worked in this field

1138
00:45:09,633 --> 00:45:12,266
most leaders understand they can make a decision

1139
00:45:12,266 --> 00:45:14,466
it's just that aligning those stakeholders to say okay

1140
00:45:14,466 --> 00:45:15,666
this is a risk we are carrying

1141
00:45:15,666 --> 00:45:17,600
yup are we ready to accept that risk

1142
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,833
or if not how do we mitigate

1143
00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:20,466
yeah okay

1144
00:45:20,466 --> 00:45:24,133
no so it's about sort of either you gotta go okay

1145
00:45:24,133 --> 00:45:25,633
there's some risk here and we have to

1146
00:45:25,633 --> 00:45:26,933
we have to take it on board

1147
00:45:26,933 --> 00:45:29,233
and try and ultimately reduce the

1148
00:45:29,233 --> 00:45:31,166
the risk as much as possible

1149
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,100
but just by doing the thing that we need to do

1150
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:37,400
yeah I think action speaks louder than the long plans

1151
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,100
yeah strategy

1152
00:45:39,466 --> 00:45:42,633
because a good plan or a strategy is as good as uh

1153
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,100
preparing as much for a boxing match

1154
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:46,266
until the first punch hits your face

1155
00:45:46,266 --> 00:45:47,266
yeah yeah

1156
00:45:47,266 --> 00:45:48,233
yeah yeah

1157
00:45:48,233 --> 00:45:50,666
so true and then suddenly your face hits the canvas

1158
00:45:50,666 --> 00:45:53,766
and that's it the strategy's out the window

1159
00:45:54,066 --> 00:45:54,900
and then how you pick up

1160
00:45:54,900 --> 00:46:00,100
and how you stay resilient and pivot or yeah

1161
00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:02,266
uh course correct as you go along

1162
00:46:02,266 --> 00:46:04,933
so start working on it make actions

1163
00:46:06,466 --> 00:46:07,266
uh

1164
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:10,000
go for some quick quick wins

1165
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,233
early wins show value

1166
00:46:11,233 --> 00:46:13,400
mm hmm gain confidence in your stakeholders

1167
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,733
yup and then once you show them that value

1168
00:46:16,733 --> 00:46:18,100
once you have that confidence

1169
00:46:18,133 --> 00:46:21,033
you get a bit more uh room

1170
00:46:21,033 --> 00:46:21,833
mm hmm uh

1171
00:46:21,866 --> 00:46:22,633
and in parallel

1172
00:46:22,633 --> 00:46:25,900
you work on the medium to long term strategy of

1173
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,466
have production ready resilient solution nice

1174
00:46:29,466 --> 00:46:31,433
and and we've talked a bit about um

1175
00:46:31,833 --> 00:46:34,500
like the balance between so technology and the people

1176
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:37,733
and we've talked about creating value EBIT Dar

1177
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,700
like where does technology

1178
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:43,633
do you think actually move the needle on EBITDA

1179
00:46:43,633 --> 00:46:45,500
how can how can it create more value

1180
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:45,800
because

1181
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,133
we talked a lot about the people in the organization

1182
00:46:48,133 --> 00:46:49,233
the strategy the systems

1183
00:46:49,233 --> 00:46:51,633
but where does the technology actually move the needle

1184
00:46:51,633 --> 00:46:53,533
do you think some things are quite simple

1185
00:46:53,533 --> 00:46:54,233
yeah uh

1186
00:46:54,233 --> 00:46:56,500
so some places where

1187
00:46:57,066 --> 00:46:59,566
uh moving from

1188
00:47:00,266 --> 00:47:03,933
a older technology stack to a new technology landscape

1189
00:47:03,933 --> 00:47:07,100
say moving from an on prem to Saas ERP

1190
00:47:07,666 --> 00:47:09,966
you can get value by reducing

1191
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,833
uh single person dependencies in the business

1192
00:47:12,833 --> 00:47:15,533
who know how to operate a specific function

1193
00:47:15,533 --> 00:47:16,333
within that

1194
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:18,166
uh ERP

1195
00:47:18,466 --> 00:47:20,600
DBA or BL interpret uh

1196
00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:22,300
integration person

1197
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:23,866
who knows how these integrations work

1198
00:47:23,866 --> 00:47:24,666
yup

1199
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,433
uh to the vendor doing it or the uh

1200
00:47:29,733 --> 00:47:33,200
software doing that process for you and uh

1201
00:47:33,433 --> 00:47:36,900
reducing that people cost from the business

1202
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:37,700
yup

1203
00:47:38,466 --> 00:47:39,266
uh

1204
00:47:39,533 --> 00:47:42,533
or like moving where you have on premise

1205
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:44,566
applications or infrastructure

1206
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,100
which takes a expensive real estate

1207
00:47:48,500 --> 00:47:51,633
maintenance and specialist skills

1208
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,533
which you may or may not have because people retire

1209
00:47:54,533 --> 00:47:55,433
move on

1210
00:47:55,866 --> 00:48:01,033
so we are removing that risk as well as the cost okay

1211
00:48:01,033 --> 00:48:04,300
those are the easier and quick ones

1212
00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:06,500
mm hmm but other changes

1213
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,433
especially in the space of ERP technologies

1214
00:48:08,433 --> 00:48:09,466
or digital transformation

1215
00:48:09,466 --> 00:48:13,366
come more from your operating model and process

1216
00:48:13,466 --> 00:48:13,933
yeah okay

1217
00:48:13,933 --> 00:48:15,233
how are you doing things differently

1218
00:48:15,233 --> 00:48:16,100
if you're just

1219
00:48:16,266 --> 00:48:18,333
lifting and shifting from an old application

1220
00:48:18,333 --> 00:48:19,333
to a new application

1221
00:48:19,333 --> 00:48:23,200
or old hardware to a new infrastructure

1222
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:25,833
yeah that will not give you the best value

1223
00:48:25,833 --> 00:48:26,233
yeah OK

1224
00:48:26,233 --> 00:48:27,133
it's just around

1225
00:48:27,133 --> 00:48:28,900
how are you going to do things differently

1226
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,533
yeah how are we going to change the process

1227
00:48:31,533 --> 00:48:33,300
how are we automating things

1228
00:48:33,433 --> 00:48:35,933
hmm that's where the value lies

1229
00:48:35,933 --> 00:48:38,333
so I'll give an example where uh

1230
00:48:38,933 --> 00:48:40,833
moving from uh

1231
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:44,533
manual paper based field sales solution

1232
00:48:44,533 --> 00:48:46,333
where the sales people are going from

1233
00:48:46,533 --> 00:48:48,400
customer to customer taking orders

1234
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,133
giving them prices brochures

1235
00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:53,533
moving them to an iPad Pro with a field sales system

1236
00:48:53,533 --> 00:48:56,600
which again give them real time stock

1237
00:48:56,700 --> 00:49:00,500
real time prices customized for that customer

1238
00:49:00,833 --> 00:49:02,300
and they don't have to do paperwork

1239
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:03,500
and come back to their office

1240
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:06,433
in the later in the evening and type that order in

1241
00:49:06,433 --> 00:49:07,600
yeah uh

1242
00:49:08,066 --> 00:49:09,400
can reduce it similarly

1243
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,333
like moving from that to a self serve ECOM platform

1244
00:49:13,333 --> 00:49:14,600
where customers instead of

1245
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,500
relying on salesperson to visit them once a week

1246
00:49:16,500 --> 00:49:17,500
or once a month

1247
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,666
can place an order whenever they want to yeah

1248
00:49:20,666 --> 00:49:22,366
they can check the availability price

1249
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:23,733
and if they have a question

1250
00:49:23,733 --> 00:49:25,933
they can call somebody and say okay uh

1251
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:27,833
can I get a discount or whatever

1252
00:49:27,833 --> 00:49:28,633
yeah

1253
00:49:29,133 --> 00:49:30,300
similarly like uh

1254
00:49:31,333 --> 00:49:33,233
a lot of things which happened

1255
00:49:34,033 --> 00:49:35,233
uh in a lot of

1256
00:49:35,433 --> 00:49:38,133
common back office functions can be automated

1257
00:49:38,233 --> 00:49:39,633
uh we'd say

1258
00:49:40,066 --> 00:49:43,633
and voice processing accounting function of automating

1259
00:49:44,033 --> 00:49:47,833
uh month end processes of reducing the time from say

1260
00:49:47,833 --> 00:49:49,400
10 days to 3 days yup

1261
00:49:49,733 --> 00:49:51,533
uh similarly

1262
00:49:51,533 --> 00:49:52,233
a lot of things

1263
00:49:52,233 --> 00:49:54,900
I'm seeing a positive improvement in the

1264
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:57,233
field of customer care con contact centers

1265
00:49:57,233 --> 00:49:57,833
okay yeah

1266
00:49:57,833 --> 00:49:59,233
so I don't know like

1267
00:49:59,233 --> 00:50:01,133
how many retailers or things you have interacted

1268
00:50:01,133 --> 00:50:02,166
in the recent past

1269
00:50:02,433 --> 00:50:03,933
you'll be able to connect to a human

1270
00:50:03,933 --> 00:50:05,433
yeah it's very difficult

1271
00:50:05,466 --> 00:50:07,333
so and a lot of those

1272
00:50:07,333 --> 00:50:09,433
customer journeys are consistent across

1273
00:50:09,433 --> 00:50:10,300
most retailers

1274
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:12,500
most customers are looking at where is my order

1275
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:14,966
when will I get it yup

1276
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,533
I've returned it I've not received my refund

1277
00:50:17,533 --> 00:50:17,700
yup

1278
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:21,200
when can I expect a refund or I ordered a replacement

1279
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,233
yup do you have that in red colour or size 10

1280
00:50:24,233 --> 00:50:25,033
yeah yeah

1281
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:27,066
that can be automated

1282
00:50:27,066 --> 00:50:29,633
and that can take away a lot of manual work

1283
00:50:30,033 --> 00:50:31,133
from the organisation

1284
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,466
reduce cost which impacts your profitability

1285
00:50:33,466 --> 00:50:34,600
yeah and sometimes

1286
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:35,433
a majority of the time

1287
00:50:35,433 --> 00:50:37,300
also creates a better customer experience

1288
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:39,300
so yeah like if you look at Amazon

1289
00:50:40,333 --> 00:50:44,166
the return processes refund processes are so brilliant

1290
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:46,633
that creates a customer stickiness

1291
00:50:46,633 --> 00:50:48,700
and long term loyalty

1292
00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:50,133
but that's what they've done with everything

1293
00:50:50,133 --> 00:50:50,466
isn't it

1294
00:50:50,466 --> 00:50:53,900
is they've just created a really simple process to

1295
00:50:53,933 --> 00:50:56,333
very simple to buy stuff simple to return it

1296
00:50:56,333 --> 00:50:58,733
simple to solve our problems on the most part

1297
00:50:59,100 --> 00:51:01,233
uh so it's about creating

1298
00:51:01,233 --> 00:51:04,300
they've created systems like you say to

1299
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:06,633
to simplify everything and make it really easy

1300
00:51:06,700 --> 00:51:08,600
yes and it makes customers stick because they

1301
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,000
they have a good customer experience

1302
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:15,633
yeah and it reduces the manual labour from day to day

1303
00:51:15,666 --> 00:51:17,300
we still need people but they

1304
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:18,500
are we dealing with exceptions

1305
00:51:18,500 --> 00:51:20,866
where you need a human judgement

1306
00:51:20,866 --> 00:51:22,433
yeah to look at patterns

1307
00:51:22,433 --> 00:51:24,566
are somebody misusing those systems

1308
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:25,900
are

1309
00:51:26,266 --> 00:51:27,533
continuously improve those systems

1310
00:51:27,533 --> 00:51:31,866
and solutions to reduce either fraud or leakage

1311
00:51:31,866 --> 00:51:35,966
yeah and so you make a lot of this sound so relatively

1312
00:51:36,100 --> 00:51:36,933
relatively simple

1313
00:51:36,933 --> 00:51:38,500
I'm sure it's the way you're explaining

1314
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:40,900
I know full well that there are

1315
00:51:40,900 --> 00:51:43,533
you know complex parts of the things that you do

1316
00:51:43,533 --> 00:51:46,633
otherwise it wouldn't be so simple to do it

1317
00:51:46,633 --> 00:51:48,366
and things wouldn't go wrong

1318
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:52,700
um but I see so still like tech investments failing to

1319
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:55,666
um create financial outcomes for firms

1320
00:51:55,666 --> 00:51:58,100
so why do you think that still happens

1321
00:51:58,100 --> 00:52:01,000
like when it's if you can create the systems

1322
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,033
it should be fairly simple

1323
00:52:02,033 --> 00:52:04,100
like why why do issues still happen

1324
00:52:04,133 --> 00:52:05,800
where it doesn't create the financial outcomes

1325
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:07,333
that people want so

1326
00:52:07,333 --> 00:52:10,500
I think one of the main thing is

1327
00:52:10,833 --> 00:52:12,500
people who start those initiatives

1328
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:15,233
may not live towards the end of the initiatives okay

1329
00:52:15,500 --> 00:52:16,800
uh so they

1330
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,366
they go with a vision mm hmm

1331
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,500
or a strategy or the outcomes in mind

1332
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:22,833
yep so

1333
00:52:23,333 --> 00:52:24,066
but either

1334
00:52:24,066 --> 00:52:26,100
they're not involved throughout the life cycle of that

1335
00:52:26,100 --> 00:52:28,833
transformation journey to follow through and say

1336
00:52:28,866 --> 00:52:30,633
are we delivering uh

1337
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:32,433
working towards the same outcomes

1338
00:52:32,433 --> 00:52:33,733
yup because

1339
00:52:33,866 --> 00:52:35,333
somebody in the leadership may

1340
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:37,033
decide that we are doing this transformation

1341
00:52:37,033 --> 00:52:38,566
for these outcomes but

1342
00:52:39,033 --> 00:52:42,800
the people actually delivering that program are

1343
00:52:43,066 --> 00:52:44,600
junior teams within the business

1344
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,600
or Sai partners or vendors

1345
00:52:46,633 --> 00:52:50,533
mm hmm and having that constant feedback loop to say

1346
00:52:50,533 --> 00:52:51,900
are we going on the right track

1347
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:54,000
why are we doing it uh

1348
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:55,500
sometimes create the gap

1349
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:58,933
and sometimes people who are creating that vision

1350
00:52:59,466 --> 00:53:00,266
are bit

1351
00:53:00,266 --> 00:53:02,466
away from reality of how things actually happen

1352
00:53:02,466 --> 00:53:05,166
yeah and there are challenges on the way

1353
00:53:05,433 --> 00:53:09,633
or things evolve during the life cycle of programs

1354
00:53:09,633 --> 00:53:11,433
which are like 2 years 3 years program

1355
00:53:11,833 --> 00:53:16,000
uh decisions made at the beginning may not hold true

1356
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:17,433
two years three years down the line

1357
00:53:17,433 --> 00:53:18,600
because the business has evolved

1358
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:19,766
markets have evolved

1359
00:53:20,433 --> 00:53:22,200
and the third thing I would say is

1360
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,233
not tracking the benefits yup

1361
00:53:24,233 --> 00:53:25,233
from day one to say okay

1362
00:53:25,233 --> 00:53:28,166
these are the benefits we are trying to gather

1363
00:53:28,666 --> 00:53:29,933
or achieve yup

1364
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:31,500
documenting them

1365
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:34,333
and having that clarity to all the stakeholders

1366
00:53:34,333 --> 00:53:36,233
these are the benefits we want to achieve yeah

1367
00:53:36,233 --> 00:53:37,133
this is how we'll track them

1368
00:53:37,133 --> 00:53:38,300
these are the KPIs

1369
00:53:39,033 --> 00:53:41,366
so having that transparency mm hmm

1370
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:45,400
or not having that transparency yeah

1371
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,800
can be a deal breaker yeah

1372
00:53:46,833 --> 00:53:50,766
and third is sometimes some of these initiatives are

1373
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,266
confidential or some of the outcomes are confidential

1374
00:53:55,266 --> 00:53:58,133
because a lot of these programs may result in

1375
00:53:58,833 --> 00:54:00,600
a reduction in workforce for example yeah

1376
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:03,833
OK so or could result in a yeah

1377
00:54:03,833 --> 00:54:06,800
reduction in workforce so how do you communicate

1378
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:08,733
what do you communicate and when do you communicate

1379
00:54:08,733 --> 00:54:11,100
it impact people's roles responsibilities

1380
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:13,133
and some people see it through yeah

1381
00:54:13,133 --> 00:54:14,866
sometimes they be maybe become a blocker

1382
00:54:14,866 --> 00:54:17,566
or if not a blocker but maybe uh

1383
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:19,200
not as cooperative

1384
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,333
and so a final couple of questions for you punit

1385
00:54:23,500 --> 00:54:26,333
before I let you let you go um

1386
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,600
someone if they are a technology leader in a

1387
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,233
in a business at the moment

1388
00:54:31,233 --> 00:54:32,500
they're looking at potentially

1389
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:35,366
going through some sort of P acquisition

1390
00:54:35,633 --> 00:54:36,633
like what are the

1391
00:54:36,633 --> 00:54:39,233
the top things that they should get in order

1392
00:54:39,533 --> 00:54:42,000
to make sure that they're prepared for

1393
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,266
for any you know

1394
00:54:43,266 --> 00:54:45,700
potential sale or or purchase

1395
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:47,966
so think uh

1396
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,066
for a P buyer

1397
00:54:50,066 --> 00:54:52,400
what they're looking at is transparency in numbers

1398
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,266
mm hmm what are they spending

1399
00:54:54,266 --> 00:54:55,700
where are they spending yep

1400
00:54:55,700 --> 00:54:57,233
how much of that is critical

1401
00:54:58,300 --> 00:55:03,266
how easy or difficult would it be to run that business

1402
00:55:03,266 --> 00:55:04,400
in a stand alone

1403
00:55:05,466 --> 00:55:06,833
and giving them that confidence

1404
00:55:06,833 --> 00:55:08,500
that they have the people

1405
00:55:08,500 --> 00:55:10,633
the capabilities and the maturity

1406
00:55:13,533 --> 00:55:17,000
having that commercial acumen and

1407
00:55:18,333 --> 00:55:21,566
being operationally astute

1408
00:55:22,466 --> 00:55:25,200
so it's a combination of these

1409
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:27,233
yes you need to know your technology

1410
00:55:27,233 --> 00:55:28,333
you need to know your

1411
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:31,600
core tech skills yeah

1412
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:34,766
but over and above that I think having that uh

1413
00:55:35,500 --> 00:55:37,533
business acumen and

1414
00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:40,633
stakeholder communications

1415
00:55:40,833 --> 00:55:41,933
yeah okay

1416
00:55:42,133 --> 00:55:45,433
and if you could fix one thing

1417
00:55:45,533 --> 00:55:48,400
in the way that PE firms think about technology

1418
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,300
businesses what would that be

1419
00:55:51,266 --> 00:55:53,100
good question let me think about it

1420
00:55:53,100 --> 00:55:56,300
uh so it's that marrying up of

1421
00:55:57,533 --> 00:56:01,033
the vision that organization has for medium to long run

1422
00:56:02,333 --> 00:56:07,833
balancing that with short term efficiency

1423
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:11,833
cost out or value creation things and

1424
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,633
making informed decisions

1425
00:56:15,633 --> 00:56:17,333
yup you may take a decision

1426
00:56:18,100 --> 00:56:18,900
uh

1427
00:56:19,066 --> 00:56:22,633
and as long as you're aware that these are the

1428
00:56:23,466 --> 00:56:26,000
pitfalls or risks of taking that decisions

1429
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:29,000
of either letting go of some people who have the key

1430
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,100
skills expertise

1431
00:56:30,100 --> 00:56:33,166
knowledge or domain expertise or

1432
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:37,600
thinking that certain feature or product

1433
00:56:38,100 --> 00:56:41,200
is not as beneficial for customers

1434
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:42,600
yeah customers may start

1435
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,066
you stop using that product or service

1436
00:56:44,066 --> 00:56:46,666
because we took away certain thing

1437
00:56:46,666 --> 00:56:48,133
because they were expensive to deliver

1438
00:56:48,133 --> 00:56:48,966
yeah OK

1439
00:56:49,133 --> 00:56:50,033
so it's really

1440
00:56:50,033 --> 00:56:52,033
really sort of making sure that you're giving

1441
00:56:52,033 --> 00:56:54,033
giving everything to everyone they

1442
00:56:54,033 --> 00:56:55,633
they want not everything

1443
00:56:55,633 --> 00:56:57,633
but making informed decision that yes

1444
00:56:57,633 --> 00:56:59,833
sometimes we want to sell things which we are

1445
00:56:59,833 --> 00:57:01,166
are profitable yup

1446
00:57:01,866 --> 00:57:05,266
but sometimes you need to make a judgement call

1447
00:57:05,266 --> 00:57:07,400
if you don't give this small thing freebie

1448
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,133
yup the customers will walk out yeah

1449
00:57:09,133 --> 00:57:11,733
okay so haven't got that value without anything yeah

1450
00:57:11,733 --> 00:57:13,266
nice fantastic

1451
00:57:13,266 --> 00:57:13,500
well

1452
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:16,233
it's been an absolute pleasure having you here today

1453
00:57:16,233 --> 00:57:17,466
thank you so much for

1454
00:57:17,466 --> 00:57:19,433
for sharing your insights and your wisdom

1455
00:57:19,633 --> 00:57:21,100
uh I think we've we've

1456
00:57:21,100 --> 00:57:24,333
you know busted a couple of myths along the way um

1457
00:57:24,333 --> 00:57:27,433
and unlocked some some things that people won't know

1458
00:57:27,433 --> 00:57:28,100
so again

1459
00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:30,133
really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me

1460
00:57:30,133 --> 00:57:30,833
thank you Rupert

1461
00:57:36,366 --> 00:57:37,900
you've been listening to the Far Side

1462
00:57:37,900 --> 00:57:39,666
with founders and leaders podcast

1463
00:57:39,833 --> 00:57:41,966
we really hope you've enjoyed this episode

1464
00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:43,200
if you have

1465
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,766
make sure that you hit the subscribe button now

1466
00:57:45,766 --> 00:57:47,233
so that you can get alerted

1467
00:57:47,233 --> 00:57:49,666
every time that we launch a new episode

1468
00:57:49,700 --> 00:57:52,800
meaning you'll never miss your favourite session

1469
00:57:53,500 --> 00:57:55,466
we really hope you can join us next time

1470
00:57:55,466 --> 00:57:57,566
and thanks again for listening to the fireside

1471
00:57:57,566 --> 00:57:59,366
with founders and leaders podcast