Shell Little Fireside

WEBVTT
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All right. Well, hello, Shell Little, and welcome
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to the fireside. How are we? Good. Tired. Good.
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And, well, I can understand you're tired because
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you've had a visitor there who is tiresome. Oh,
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so tiresome. Some random guy wandered in from
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Boston. I don't know. So, because I've only ever
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met you at... access me to i'd always assumed
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you were from toronto but i know i was disabused
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quite you know i mean it didn't make a difference
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to to me where you're from i just didn't know
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i lived in ignorance you think that about everybody
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you meet at conferences like i met you in california
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you're a california person no that normally works
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no no it's just that it's just that that the
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only time i've ever met you and i've met you
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on three or four, well, a number of occasions.
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And it was there. So I associated you with that
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place. And I always had such a good time at XSVTO
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and hanging out. That's what I wanted to ask
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you. I couldn't find a picture of the woman,
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but I remember a couple of years, well, 2009,
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it might have been before or after, I can't remember.
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2009? Okay. No, 2019, not that far. Oh, 19, okay.
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Yeah, just before COVID. But there was a woman,
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and I'm pretty sure that you were there, but
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there was a woman that presented about burnout,
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anxiety, or something. And she's a short, short
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woman. And she sort of was suddenly everywhere,
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and then she disappeared again. No idea? I don't
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remember. No. I was presenting that year, so
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I think I was running around. i will have to
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i'll look it up but it's just the the oh oh i
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i did they have color hair colored yeah it's
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sort of like asian i think she was like i was
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like i know my friend um they go by their name
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is adarin and i'm pretty sure it's he him now
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yeah no i know i know her uh or him sorry yeah
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there you go yeah look It's a fucking minefield,
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this whole, you know. You're doing great. You're
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doing great. Well, not this, but, I mean, with
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pronouns and things like that. Because, yeah,
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I don't know if you're aware, but both of my
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daughters are gay. Awesome. And so I've got,
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yeah, they're always picking me up about shit
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that I say. Well, not always because, you know,
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I'm not like, I'm not a reprobate or anything,
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but. You know, we have these discussions because,
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you know, both of them are, well, they're masculine
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presenting, but I never really, like they're
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not, you know, really masculine presenting. Like
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they don't, if you know what I mean. My younger
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daughter works out. She's got these huge muscles.
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So, yeah. Anyway. I don't know why. See, this
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is what happens. I start to say something and
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I can't remember why. But no, this person, yeah,
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I will find out who the person was. And I'm pretty
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sure because they sort of made a big splash on
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the presentation scene. Suddenly they were everywhere
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and they just disappeared again. That's relatable.
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Yeah. Why? Do you feel as if that's what you
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did? I'm just like. yeah yeah i'm like uh i'm
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like a cryptid right now so like i'm i don't
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say yes to anything basically and when you when
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you reached out i didn't see it because i don't
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check linkedin gross um but then but then i was
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told hey steve faulkner's looking for you and
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i'm like okay i'll check my linkedin well i appreciate
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it because um it's just that when i have met
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you and uh thought you were canadian um that
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I always enjoyed your company and I thought it
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would be nice to have you on because you do interesting
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work. I like to think so. Yeah, well, I don't
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know what you've been doing, but I'm sure it's
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interesting. So, yeah, just tell us, because
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you were saying just before that you're doing
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game -related work. Yeah, so I opened my own
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firm company. thing yeah um after i left my corporate
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gig and uh i've been lucky enough to work in
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game accessibility it's been really awesome um
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i'm working on my like second game credit but
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i just do consulting and it's really casual and
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uh yeah i'm really enjoying it so i don't know
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if i want to work full -time ever again yeah
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so uh but i'm just really enjoying that so yeah
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i work with studios i do a lot of cognitive accessibility
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just in video games so so did they approach you
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to like is it yeah inbound yeah that's that's
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yeah i've i've been involved in sales since i
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joined tetralogical um as a you know one of the
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owners that's why i had to do some sales not
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that i have to do but i feel the the need to
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um but luckily it's all inbound sales because
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i i've never you know i mean something like um
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eric bailey for example i mean he could you know
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he's a salesman i'm not yeah i i don't have that
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in me either like if you want my work you have
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to get a hold of me but like i don't know after
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all the it's I don't know if you've seen all
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the layoffs. It's getting harder and harder these
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days. So now I'm like, do I have to go talk to
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people? So if I do, I do. But I'm not sure. Well,
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I mean, you do what you do to get a roof over
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your head, et cetera. I mean, I'm not, I don't,
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I had this thing with my old boss, Mike, who
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ended up working for this company called Audio
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Eye. who that yeah yeah yeah so but i'm friends
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with adrian i know things yeah yeah so what i
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mean yeah so yeah i'm i'm uh good friends with
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adrian and i'm good friends with mike i'm you
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know but he i've already told you i just it's
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just a bugbear with me because because he's so
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someone who i really like as a person and also
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as a you know, in a professional sense. And I
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think he's sincere in his desires to actually
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make stuff better within the overlay stuff. But,
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you know, people just see him as having sold
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out. And people have been, like, you know, sort
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of ignoring him and not talking to him. And I
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find that difficult to understand. But anyway,
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that's just one of my personal bugbears. You've
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got your own... Does it have a name, your consultancy?
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Yeah, it's designing A11y, designing accessibility.
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I kind of like the idea of like reverse engineering
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accessibility from a design perspective. So when
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I release, I'm building classes as well. And
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when those are released, it's going to be under
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that umbrella. So yeah, it's fun. It's also casual.
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So it's like, I'm not, I'm not really pressed.
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I don't work like I used to. I touch grass. And
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have a life of that kind of work, which is something
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I did not have when I was speaking back to back
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to back like I was before COVID. So, yeah. Well,
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I mean, I do work full time and I have, but,
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you know, I've got kids and keep a roof over
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my head and all these things. But also we get
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really good benefits as in we get at least 30
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days excluding public holidays each year. That's
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very nice. Yeah. So, and, you know, we, us, who
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are the directors, that's Henny, Leonie, Ian
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Pouncey and myself, that we want to make sure,
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one of the things Ian says is, is that he wants
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to, to have technological as a place where he
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would like to work himself. And we've got 17
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people, or no, 13 people plus us that work there.
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And we try to treat our stuff well, pay them
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well, et cetera. That's good. We need more of
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that. Yeah. Well, we try to live ER and dog food
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as far as the ethics are concerned. What I was
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going to say is that... One of the things that,
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you know, when I write up and release your talk,
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your interview that we're having today, interview,
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yeah, just the chat, I don't know. It's a gap.
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Yeah, that if you want to, you know, any links
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to pertinent stuff that you want to, you can
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send to me and then I'll add them to you because
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I usually have some stuff that we talked about
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and, you know, be able to do that. Yes. Tell
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me more about the ins and outs of what you're
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doing. Sure. I sleep a lot. No, I'm just kidding.
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I mean, I do. I love to sleep. So basically how
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it will work, it's for me, I'm brought in either
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as a disabled player. because I have I'm a gamer
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as well so I have a lot of experience being a
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disabled gamer or I'm brought in as an expert
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and I love both of those roles they're both great
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I work with studios quite often and I typically
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do like I'll do IDWs which are like inclusive
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design workshops or I'll do like we have a specific
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problem like a setting we're working on and we
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need to ask someone's opinion on this particular
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setting so I'll be brought in like with you know,
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someone who specializes in low vision and blind
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gamers. And I typically am someone who's brought
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in for the cognitive side. And it's great. It's
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very collaborative. It's endless and limitless
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because games are endless and limitless and you
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can't put standards on it. So it's just creative
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and fun. And a lot of these studios really give
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a shit about accessibility and they really want
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to make their games playable. So it's great.
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I mean, that's what... Yeah, it's really great.
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I was thinking about there's a guy that I know
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of that you probably know, a guy called Ian Hamilton.
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Oh, yeah, I know that guy. Yeah. I mean, I only
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knew him because Mike Passiello was talking to
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him at one point. I mean, one of the things that
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Mike was really good at was seeing people that
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were good at what they did and, you know, employing
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them, but just letting them go. i know he would
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see i don't think he actually employed ian but
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he was trying to because he saw the this guy
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i mean maybe you're gonna you know he's he's
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not that great i don't know but from what i understood
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from no it's great yeah well there you go i wouldn't
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be doing game accessibility right now if ian
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hamilton hadn't been like oh you and then like
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picked me up and like He made me, not made me,
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but he offered me a lot of speaking opportunities
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in the game accessibility spaces. He flew me
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out to London to do GA Conf back in the day.
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And yeah, I made a lot of connections. So it
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was because of Tara Volker and Ian Hamilton saw
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me at A11YTO and they were like, oh, you're coming
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to speak at our conference. And I was like, okay.
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So, you know, I said yes to a lot of stuff back
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then. Yeah. He did say to me that he liked getting
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Canadian people to speak. Absolutely. We love
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Canadians. Yeah. But, yeah, so myself, yeah,
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I don't game. And because both of my daughters
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play constantly. And so when I go upstairs, I
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:58.779
see them, they like Valorant. I think Valorant
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is one of the things they're playing mainly at
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:02.480
the moment, but they play different things. And,
00:13:02.500 --> 00:13:07.049
you know, the things like The Last of Us. Was
00:13:07.049 --> 00:13:10.230
it The Last of Us? Yeah. Probably. It was very
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popular. Yeah. My daughter's, my older daughter,
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especially like that, because it was, you know,
00:13:16.169 --> 00:13:20.549
one of the main characters was gay. So she, yeah.
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I mean, it's nice to see. We love representation.
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Exactly. Exactly. So, yes, I don't place, but
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I know people who do. It's like saying, I smoke
00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.139
dope, but I know people who do. I know people
00:13:38.139 --> 00:13:41.620
who do. Yeah. And sometimes, yeah, sort of, you
00:13:41.620 --> 00:13:45.820
know, I get a contact. No, no. But I must admit,
00:13:45.940 --> 00:13:48.059
that's one of the reasons why I enjoy going to
00:13:48.059 --> 00:13:53.169
Toronto, because it's legal. I mean, it is. So
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I live in Seattle. For the record, I know that
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you think I'm Canadian, which is honestly, I
00:13:58.029 --> 00:13:59.830
grew up in Michigan, which is really close to
00:13:59.830 --> 00:14:02.309
Toronto. So people in Toronto did think that
00:14:02.309 --> 00:14:04.169
I was Canadian as well. So I'm sure someone was
00:14:04.169 --> 00:14:05.649
like, wow, Sean Little sounds Canadian because
00:14:05.649 --> 00:14:08.330
I grew up in Michigan. But I do live in Seattle,
00:14:08.429 --> 00:14:10.389
Washington, and it is legal here as well. Oh,
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well, that's fine. I mean, it's the only sane
00:14:12.629 --> 00:14:16.350
thing. But it's probably the only sane aspect
00:14:16.350 --> 00:14:20.929
of American society at the moment. And it's,
00:14:20.929 --> 00:14:23.559
you know. Maybe one day it'll be legal everywhere.
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But for now, I'm happy I live in Washington,
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you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I
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mean, it's just, you know, there's so many reasons.
00:14:31.620 --> 00:14:33.820
I mean, I'm not advocating that people should
00:14:33.820 --> 00:14:36.440
be, you know, getting high all the time. But
00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:41.840
I mean, out of alcohol versus marijuana, I know
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:44.919
which one I choose, especially these days, because
00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:50.399
getting old as I am. Alcohol has more of a negative
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.860
effect upon my body than it used to. So anyway.
00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:59.360
I'm feeling that already. I can't, what, 29,
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:05.200
30? You've got so much longer. Yeah, you've got
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.340
much longer than I have. I'm starting to think
00:15:08.340 --> 00:15:10.899
about, you know, like I've just bought a new
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car and I'm thinking. is this going to be the
00:15:13.629 --> 00:15:16.490
last car? I had my last one for nine years. I'm
00:15:16.490 --> 00:15:20.100
thinking, is this going to be my last car? But
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I mean, I'll just keep the car. I'm getting it
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.539
mainly for my daughter's drive. Are they taking
00:15:25.539 --> 00:15:28.120
your keys away like next year? No, no. I'm just
00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.360
thinking that I would have kept it for, I will
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:34.340
keep it for a long time, but I can't see, like,
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.320
it's not the sort of thing, like I've gotten
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:38.299
it, I'm getting an EV, so I'm switching from
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petrol to electric. Smart. Yeah, well, I thought
00:15:42.870 --> 00:15:44.870
there was, yeah, I've been reading a lot about
00:15:44.870 --> 00:15:48.590
the climate crisis of late and thinking about
00:15:48.590 --> 00:15:52.529
the future and all these things. So being really
00:15:52.529 --> 00:15:54.570
positive about everything, but at the same time,
00:15:54.610 --> 00:16:00.080
yeah, being realistic. But, sorry, what was I
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.700
going to say? I can't. Fuck. You see, that's
00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:05.779
what happens. Sorry, I just start rabbiting on
00:16:05.779 --> 00:16:07.580
about something to do with myself, which has
00:16:07.580 --> 00:16:09.940
nothing to do with you. And then I forget. That's
00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:12.049
okay, man. I mean, it's your podcast, man. You
00:16:12.049 --> 00:16:14.149
can talk about whatever you want. Yeah, but I
00:16:14.149 --> 00:16:20.889
don't get people on to talk to my... I don't
00:16:20.889 --> 00:16:24.309
know. I don't know. Isn't that the purpose of
00:16:24.309 --> 00:16:28.730
running a podcast? Is it? I don't know. Is it?
00:16:29.580 --> 00:16:34.289
Having said that, I was listening... This guy
00:16:34.289 --> 00:16:36.809
called Nick Steenhout, who's an American. I know
00:16:36.809 --> 00:16:39.870
he's an American, but he's been involved in XSV
00:16:39.870 --> 00:16:43.929
a lot. And he was recently interviewed. He has
00:16:43.929 --> 00:16:46.470
a podcast and he was recently interviewed by
00:16:46.470 --> 00:16:49.450
this guy called Mark Miller, who used to work
00:16:49.450 --> 00:16:54.769
at TPG. So I know him and I like the idea. of
00:16:54.769 --> 00:16:57.169
getting somebody to come and interview me. Because
00:16:57.169 --> 00:16:59.149
nobody ever asks me questions. You see, I'm always
00:16:59.149 --> 00:17:02.230
asking the questions or rabbiting on about myself.
00:17:02.450 --> 00:17:06.089
So I'm going to get... So he and Mark agreed.
00:17:06.349 --> 00:17:09.849
Like, he's got a real voice for Radiator. He's
00:17:09.849 --> 00:17:13.069
a salesperson. He's really... He's on the ball.
00:17:13.289 --> 00:17:15.289
So I was... But I quite like him, nevertheless.
00:17:17.029 --> 00:17:21.029
And so I'm going to get him to interview me.
00:17:22.470 --> 00:17:26.380
That's very fun. A Christmas special. Yeah, yeah.
00:17:26.660 --> 00:17:28.960
I need to close my window and it's going to require
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.279
me to take a fan out. So if we want to like pause
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.980
recording or whatever, I don't care. I'll just
00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:44.480
sit here and grumble. Sounds of construction
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:48.289
are not my favorite. It's things like that. I
00:17:48.289 --> 00:17:50.410
got diagnosed with autism. I don't know if you
00:17:50.410 --> 00:17:53.369
know that. I'm autistic. And that was part of
00:17:53.369 --> 00:17:55.470
the reason why I went through burnout. And there's
00:17:55.470 --> 00:17:57.750
so many things that I look back on. I'm like,
00:17:57.809 --> 00:18:01.150
you dumbass. I'm like, oh, you know, shrill sounds
00:18:01.150 --> 00:18:03.069
make me want to die a little bit. And I'm like.
00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.299
And I thought that was normal. I thought that
00:18:05.299 --> 00:18:07.940
was like super casual. So it's stuff like that,
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.160
that I'm like, man, if someone would have just
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.079
said something, that would have been cool. But
00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.539
yeah, I know. So no, I cannot handle that sound.
00:18:15.539 --> 00:18:18.859
It is the point that, or is the case that women
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:23.759
and girls are diagnosed much later than boys.
00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:29.920
My youngest daughter, she has been diagnosed
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.140
with autism. See, that's the thing. Autism is
00:18:33.140 --> 00:18:39.380
not seen as a, not disease, but it's not seen
00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:42.700
as a, you know, some sort of medical thing, medical
00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:46.720
sort of, it's a way of thinking. Yeah, it's a
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.900
nervous system thing. It's the way your body
00:18:48.900 --> 00:18:51.200
processes information and stimuli. Yeah, exactly.
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:55.859
And she's got autism, but also ADHD. So that
00:18:55.859 --> 00:19:02.960
is still seen. So, but. We love an ADHD baddie.
00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:05.670
Like I'm collecting them. I'm joking that I'm
00:19:05.670 --> 00:19:08.130
collecting other audio HD, like AFAB people who
00:19:08.130 --> 00:19:10.349
got diagnosed late. I'm collecting them. Like
00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:14.670
there's been the joke about the infinity stones.
00:19:14.849 --> 00:19:19.190
I'm like, I'm, I'm, I'm building a team. Well,
00:19:19.309 --> 00:19:22.130
yeah, there's a lot of us. Well, yeah, there
00:19:22.130 --> 00:19:28.359
is the, yeah, there is. And, but at the same
00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.900
time, I could be watching this show called. love
00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:34.420
on the spectrum have you ever seen that uh i
00:19:34.420 --> 00:19:36.599
have feelings about it i haven't watched it and
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.599
i won't watch it but of course i mean i have
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:44.259
feelings about it too but i i actually find well
00:19:44.259 --> 00:19:46.900
as well as you know it's extremely voyeuristic
00:19:46.900 --> 00:19:51.200
but i i just like seeing people you know i like
00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:54.720
seeing their their because when i was younger
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:59.259
believe it or not i was in my 20s at one point,
00:19:59.299 --> 00:20:03.559
and I used to, for about five years, I worked
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:06.700
in group homes for people with intellectual disabilities
00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.680
and learning disabilities and looked after old
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:14.180
people as well. So I experienced, like, you know,
00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:21.029
have familiarity with people that have those
00:20:21.029 --> 00:20:26.759
sort of disabilities or have, again, I'm... can
00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:31.539
walk on i'm not talking about uh i'm taking autism
00:20:31.539 --> 00:20:34.359
as a disability but you know just in general
00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.730
um i mean i find it i find it quite disabling
00:20:37.730 --> 00:20:40.930
sometimes that's the reality of it but yeah yeah
00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:43.849
it's it's different than like other like some
00:20:43.849 --> 00:20:46.589
people categorize autism as a mental health related
00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:48.970
disability and i'm like i don't agree with that
00:20:48.970 --> 00:20:51.710
but it you know it's it's hard when we don't
00:20:51.710 --> 00:20:53.569
have a great understanding of body versus mind
00:20:53.569 --> 00:20:57.319
in yeah definitely I mean, all the, what I can
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.619
say is that, that for, you know, my experience
00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:04.279
from, from my daughter's life is, is that is,
00:21:04.339 --> 00:21:07.019
can be extremely challenging. I mean, those,
00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:09.240
well, because also that, you know, that there's
00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:11.799
other depression and things that go with it,
00:21:11.859 --> 00:21:16.720
you know, sort of comorbidities where, but good
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.039
thing is, is, is, is my, my youngest has just
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:24.500
finished her GCSEs, which is. like a year 10
00:21:24.500 --> 00:21:29.349
so she'll go on to do her a levels which are
00:21:29.349 --> 00:21:32.230
the ones you do before uni but she did extremely
00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:36.359
well despite the fact that she didn't go to college
00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:40.259
for half the year because of her you know feelings
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:42.359
about certain things she didn't like the seats
00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:45.119
didn't like the noise blah blah but she did all
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:48.099
the study at home and she did really well so
00:21:48.099 --> 00:21:50.930
that was That was a really positive. It's amazing
00:21:50.930 --> 00:21:53.589
what happens when you accommodate disabled people.
00:21:53.910 --> 00:21:56.690
It's amazing what we can do when we actually
00:21:56.690 --> 00:21:59.569
are accommodated. Yeah, definitely. Well, I mean,
00:21:59.690 --> 00:22:04.019
you know, yeah. Yes. Yes, it is. And that's,
00:22:04.019 --> 00:22:06.180
you know, part of the reason why we do what we
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:13.410
do, I suppose. Yeah. And my older daughter just
00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:16.369
finished her degree in psychology and she graduated.
00:22:17.690 --> 00:22:20.390
So, so things looking up, you know, positive,
00:22:20.490 --> 00:22:24.069
despite the fact my brother just died. So I'm
00:22:24.069 --> 00:22:28.049
sort of, I'm also, yeah, sorry. It's just, I'm
00:22:28.049 --> 00:22:31.410
also, I just can't stop talking because when,
00:22:31.509 --> 00:22:35.490
since, since I've lost the weight, I used to
00:22:35.490 --> 00:22:37.650
use something called the CPAP machine in order
00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:42.079
to sleep and which I used for 20 years. But now
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.819
I don't need to use it anymore. And I sleep only
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.839
about six hours a night. So I'm way up in the
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:50.259
middle of the night talking to old friends on
00:22:50.259 --> 00:22:56.839
Messenger. Like, I'm so rested. Yeah. But yeah,
00:22:56.980 --> 00:23:01.380
I do feel much. I mean, before I used to sleep
00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:04.420
at nine hours and then have a snooze in the afternoon
00:23:04.420 --> 00:23:09.099
because I was tired out. But now I don't. I apologize
00:23:09.099 --> 00:23:12.880
in advance that I'm more chatty than I usually
00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:15.759
am. Hey, man, if you want to yap at me for an
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.420
hour and I get a free T -shirt, hell yeah, let's
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:21.700
do it. I don't. That's the point. Then ask a
00:23:21.700 --> 00:23:23.880
question. I will answer. Feel free. Ask me anything.
00:23:24.019 --> 00:23:25.619
I'm pretty much an open book, and if I don't
00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:28.140
want to answer it, I won't. Okay, so you were
00:23:28.140 --> 00:23:32.980
saying that you haven't been presenting. Do you
00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:37.569
plan to do any public speaking? in the near future
00:23:37.569 --> 00:23:42.150
um i do private speaking so companies and they'll
00:23:42.150 --> 00:23:44.390
hire me and let me in i've spoken for some pretty
00:23:44.390 --> 00:23:48.390
cool companies so i still do speaking um but
00:23:48.390 --> 00:23:52.109
uh the thing is is i only really care about game
00:23:52.109 --> 00:23:53.769
accessibility right now like i was gonna go to
00:23:53.769 --> 00:23:57.490
a11y to this year but i just couldn't make myself
00:23:57.490 --> 00:23:59.750
write a talk on web i just don't give a shit
00:23:59.750 --> 00:24:02.109
i was like i don't want to do this all i want
00:24:02.109 --> 00:24:04.710
to do is talk about games um i got asked to do
00:24:04.710 --> 00:24:09.309
a it's called a round table at a conference for
00:24:09.309 --> 00:24:12.049
game stuff. And I was like, I don't want to do
00:24:12.049 --> 00:24:14.009
that. It just sounds like the worst part of a
00:24:14.009 --> 00:24:17.170
talk, which is the Q &A when people go, hi, this
00:24:17.170 --> 00:24:19.710
is a statement more than a question. Like, I
00:24:19.710 --> 00:24:21.289
don't want to be locked in a room doing that.
00:24:21.390 --> 00:24:23.690
So I think I'm going to say no. But in general,
00:24:23.829 --> 00:24:28.970
I've been privileged enough to be friends with
00:24:28.970 --> 00:24:30.950
people who run conferences. So they just, if
00:24:30.950 --> 00:24:33.190
they need anything, they just ping me. Like I
00:24:33.190 --> 00:24:37.440
gave. many years ago at like oh god what one
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.200
axcon i think i gave my my burnout talk about
00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:43.660
like burning out inaccessibility and um i've
00:24:43.660 --> 00:24:46.039
revamped it and redone it and i was like i gave
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:48.680
that recently and i've given it a couple times
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:51.279
now like this new version of that talk and it's
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.779
been great i just i'm not somebody who i'm not
00:24:54.779 --> 00:24:56.019
going to give a talk unless i have something
00:24:56.019 --> 00:24:58.019
to say like there are so many people that just
00:24:58.019 --> 00:25:02.410
like do that like i don't want to I got nothing
00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:04.730
to say. I'm not going to stand up there and make
00:25:04.730 --> 00:25:07.710
everybody stare at me. Like I, but when I do
00:25:07.710 --> 00:25:10.750
have something to say, then I'm like very happy
00:25:10.750 --> 00:25:13.990
that I have outlets to do it. But yeah, like
00:25:13.990 --> 00:25:16.589
my, my most recent talk that I've been doing
00:25:16.589 --> 00:25:19.710
and working on is a low hanging fruit is still
00:25:19.710 --> 00:25:23.140
fruit. And it's about just like. even though
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:25.680
for like yeah for gaming yeah for game accessibility
00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:28.940
like people like oh well we just did this thing
00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:30.799
and i'm like well that's still awesome like it's
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:32.619
still yeah it's the easy thing but it's still
00:25:32.619 --> 00:25:34.640
like low -hanging fruit is still fruit like we're
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:38.119
still eating um so that's been something i've
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:40.180
been really enjoying but yeah i want to see already
00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:47.000
i want to yeah i um that in 2023 i did a presentation
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.059
at um access pto called no industry for old men
00:25:51.589 --> 00:25:56.930
And it was just fraught with issues because of
00:25:56.930 --> 00:26:04.950
the, like, it wasn't my most professional of
00:26:04.950 --> 00:26:09.269
outings. But anyway, I did it. But then I did
00:26:09.269 --> 00:26:12.890
it again, an updated version at State of the
00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:18.240
Browser 2024. And I really enjoyed doing that.
00:26:18.460 --> 00:26:23.559
But I'm of the, well, I'm an old white person.
00:26:23.569 --> 00:26:26.630
bloke and most people don't want to what yeah
00:26:26.630 --> 00:26:29.970
oh my god most people don't want to hear me talk
00:26:29.970 --> 00:26:33.890
so i i don't get many off and then they see what
00:26:33.890 --> 00:26:37.589
i've done in the past and they like so the internet
00:26:37.589 --> 00:26:40.950
is forever steve yeah it's like a one -shot deal
00:26:40.950 --> 00:26:46.829
i get i get asked but i have of late um been
00:26:46.829 --> 00:26:50.390
like especially all this shit that's been happening
00:26:50.390 --> 00:26:56.160
in my life i i have of late had a desire to uh
00:26:56.190 --> 00:27:00.069
do uh the uh know as far old men and you know
00:27:00.069 --> 00:27:03.009
update it but just i think that the i have some
00:27:03.009 --> 00:27:07.029
interesting points about work the work that we
00:27:07.029 --> 00:27:09.930
we do whether it be you know just in the accessibility
00:27:09.930 --> 00:27:15.349
industry community or whatever um and yeah so
00:27:15.349 --> 00:27:18.049
if anybody's watching this and they'd like to
00:27:18.049 --> 00:27:22.829
to get me to uh do a presentation so um Because,
00:27:22.829 --> 00:27:27.369
yeah. Steve Faulkner is a great presenter. Please
00:27:27.369 --> 00:27:29.529
hire him to speak. No, I'm a shit presenter,
00:27:29.630 --> 00:27:34.269
but I have... Just kidding. No, well, I mean,
00:27:34.289 --> 00:27:36.890
you know. Steve Faulkner is a shit presenter.
00:27:37.130 --> 00:27:39.130
There you go. There's a good soundbite for you.
00:27:39.130 --> 00:27:41.630
But I have an interesting story to tell. I mean,
00:27:41.670 --> 00:27:44.589
I was watching some of Hayden Pickering. Like,
00:27:44.589 --> 00:27:46.910
I love what Hayden Pickering does. And, you know,
00:27:46.930 --> 00:27:49.750
it's just his web briefs and the way he presents
00:27:49.750 --> 00:27:54.150
and blah, blah, blah. But I was just thinking
00:27:54.150 --> 00:27:56.829
that because he's quite well known, you know,
00:27:56.829 --> 00:27:59.450
for his presentation style and whatever. And
00:27:59.450 --> 00:28:01.769
then I was just thinking, I hope people don't
00:28:01.769 --> 00:28:06.059
think that I'm a sort of a Hayden Pickering parody
00:28:06.059 --> 00:28:09.740
act, you know. I mean, would that be so bad?
00:28:10.259 --> 00:28:14.160
No, it wouldn't be. Sorry. One of the other things
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:20.220
about losing weight is that my ass hurts by coccyx.
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:23.440
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've got this, I bought
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:28.119
this cushion to, but I never quite feel comfortable
00:28:28.119 --> 00:28:32.599
on it. Oh, yeah, I get that. Less about me. Yeah,
00:28:32.700 --> 00:28:35.460
but talking about Hayden, and as I said, because
00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:39.460
I've been... Less about me, more about Hayden.
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:44.240
Let's go. Yeah, yeah. Just that I've been watching
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:47.160
his web briefs and enjoying those again, and
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.599
because... Because I had this, like, I wake up
00:28:50.599 --> 00:28:52.099
at 2 o 'clock in the morning and I think, oh,
00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:54.500
what can I do? And I just, you know, watch something
00:28:54.500 --> 00:28:56.720
like that. So I've really been enjoying those
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.569
and it's just made me have more of an appreciation,
00:29:00.609 --> 00:29:03.329
which I already appreciated, Hayden, because
00:29:03.329 --> 00:29:09.990
we started back in, like, 2010, him and I sort
00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:13.880
of rubbing butt and heads about something. But
00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:17.730
through that process, we became... And then he
00:29:17.730 --> 00:29:20.410
worked at TPG for a while as well, as most people
00:29:20.410 --> 00:29:23.190
did. Like he was contracted for about a year
00:29:23.190 --> 00:29:29.490
to TPG. So, but yeah, so like, hey, he's one
00:29:29.490 --> 00:29:32.369
of the things. And what the other thing is, is
00:29:32.369 --> 00:29:37.220
that as I've interviewed people, talked to people,
00:29:37.299 --> 00:29:43.829
largely about myself, yeah, you know, in these
00:29:43.829 --> 00:29:47.190
fireside chats. We love a self -aware queen.
00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:56.490
After talking to people, I've generally felt
00:29:56.490 --> 00:29:59.190
I like them a lot more. Like actually talking
00:29:59.190 --> 00:30:01.569
face -to -face with these people. Because when
00:30:01.569 --> 00:30:08.549
you're on mailing lists and GitHub things, you
00:30:08.549 --> 00:30:15.309
can be expressive. you can sort of dislike people
00:30:15.309 --> 00:30:19.029
for the way that they interact. But then, and
00:30:19.029 --> 00:30:22.289
just, you know, and also just like certain people
00:30:22.289 --> 00:30:25.029
like Bruce Lawson, who I've known for years,
00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:28.009
but I just thought he was a bit of a wanker in
00:30:28.009 --> 00:30:33.599
some ways. He's not. And I came away, like I
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.519
was only using Bruce as an example because he
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:40.160
knows that I, he wouldn't be offended by the
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:44.990
fact that I call him a wanker. Yeah. but yeah
00:30:44.990 --> 00:30:48.130
so it's it's it's quite a therapeutic process
00:30:48.130 --> 00:30:51.190
for me and and uh well i can't say that i will
00:30:51.190 --> 00:30:54.069
i will like you more after this but i will try
00:30:54.069 --> 00:30:57.789
my hardest oh that's sweet i mean with me like
00:30:57.789 --> 00:31:01.230
i'm because of the way that my adhd and autism
00:31:01.230 --> 00:31:05.250
i don't know aligned i am i am very much who
00:31:05.250 --> 00:31:09.849
i am i can't i it's it like broke my soul you
00:31:09.849 --> 00:31:13.640
know trying to be to like even less of a version
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.160
of myself yeah like to even mask a little bit
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.200
so i'm very much what you know like this is what
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:20.799
you get what you get like when you see me in
00:31:20.799 --> 00:31:24.119
a conference i am just as you know i'm as much
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:27.980
as a cryptid this is who i am you always present
00:31:27.980 --> 00:31:31.880
a shell now rather than the yeah yeah and that's
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:34.799
and that's the way to be i mean honestly i i
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:38.700
love my my little i don't know i i started presenting
00:31:38.700 --> 00:31:42.490
and i was like oh should i switch over because
00:31:42.490 --> 00:31:44.750
i have like a i don't know i like my company's
00:31:44.750 --> 00:31:47.170
like it's mostly for taxes like i don't that's
00:31:47.170 --> 00:31:49.670
whatever but i'm like i just people know my name
00:31:49.670 --> 00:31:53.029
they're not going to know the the title of the
00:31:53.029 --> 00:31:55.190
company and i don't want to use linkedin like
00:31:55.190 --> 00:31:58.210
i don't want to do that i'm good so it'll just
00:31:58.210 --> 00:32:03.089
be shell little for yeah i mean on on the use
00:32:03.089 --> 00:32:06.549
of linkedin i mean i started using linkedin more
00:32:06.549 --> 00:32:09.269
just but what i essentially do is i post this
00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:12.089
pretty much the same shit that i post on on blue
00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:15.190
sky and mastodon but since it's it's since the
00:32:15.190 --> 00:32:18.269
demise of well demise for me and and for many
00:32:18.269 --> 00:32:22.130
other people the the twitter um twitter and and
00:32:22.130 --> 00:32:24.890
the community on there and so that's why and
00:32:24.890 --> 00:32:29.920
i find it quite i find it quite funny to to or
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:35.240
funny to just just not treat linkedin as as a
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:37.319
professional sort of you know because you get
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.839
all these people and this sort of crap that that
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.500
is in your timeline so i just put my own crap
00:32:43.500 --> 00:32:46.819
but it it's not you know the it's not the look
00:32:46.819 --> 00:32:50.220
at me um you know please you know buy my product
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.579
type thing because i i've never liked that and
00:32:52.579 --> 00:32:58.500
and so yeah but i i understand uh why you you
00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:02.369
know don't want to be don't want to be seen on
00:33:02.369 --> 00:33:07.910
linkedin ai slop cesspool yeah bro you know look
00:33:07.910 --> 00:33:10.150
at how little sleep i got because i'm so focused
00:33:10.150 --> 00:33:13.269
on work and i'm just like oh god yeah further
00:33:13.269 --> 00:33:17.849
that ain't me but you know never has been but
00:33:17.849 --> 00:33:22.890
um good you mentioned ai so in your um professional
00:33:22.890 --> 00:33:26.930
capacity do you have to advise on the use of
00:33:26.930 --> 00:33:30.710
ai or in any way or you know apart from don't
00:33:30.710 --> 00:33:34.049
use it but a lot of companies are using it these
00:33:34.049 --> 00:33:37.569
days and there there is a fear from you know
00:33:37.569 --> 00:33:42.690
certain people that their jobs will uh will be
00:33:42.690 --> 00:33:45.309
taken over or automated so they won't actually
00:33:45.309 --> 00:33:47.869
you know need to be doing it is that a fear that
00:33:47.869 --> 00:33:52.279
you have or um not really i think the political
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:56.750
shift uh lumping accessibility in with the concept
00:33:56.750 --> 00:34:00.809
of dei that has been more detrimental to my work
00:34:00.809 --> 00:34:04.609
and to a lot of my friends jobs than ai um working
00:34:04.609 --> 00:34:08.489
in games the game i would say in general the
00:34:08.489 --> 00:34:12.710
larger consumers of games are very anti -ai in
00:34:12.710 --> 00:34:15.869
games um it's a great way to not sell a single
00:34:15.869 --> 00:34:19.690
copy is to say i used ai because at the end of
00:34:19.690 --> 00:34:23.030
the day it's a labor question yeah and uh whose
00:34:23.030 --> 00:34:26.980
labor are you you know stealing extracting uh
00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:29.320
i mean yeah especially because it's typically
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.119
when you think about ai usage in video games
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:34.079
it's quite often like art that is going to be
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.380
deprioritized for them and that's someone's job
00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:38.019
that's someone's livelihood and it feels like
00:34:38.019 --> 00:34:40.219
shit so when you've seen like there's a lot of
00:34:40.219 --> 00:34:43.739
stuff going on right now about you know studios
00:34:43.739 --> 00:34:46.159
lying about their AI usage and then getting caught
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:49.320
and then just getting absolutely destroyed because
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.860
of it because like who wants to play a game from
00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:54.579
a studio that one is going to do that but to
00:34:54.579 --> 00:34:57.420
lie about it like you know if you're proud if
00:34:57.420 --> 00:34:59.280
you're using AI be proud about it like tell people
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.619
like oh you're hiding it that's weird so should
00:35:01.619 --> 00:35:03.260
you do you feel bad you know like that's the
00:35:03.260 --> 00:35:06.079
question so for me with like accessibility especially
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:10.619
because it's not simple programmatic stuff like
00:35:10.619 --> 00:35:14.099
it's not it's not linear i think like a lot of
00:35:14.099 --> 00:35:17.380
web experiences are um i'm not seeing it at all
00:35:17.380 --> 00:35:20.000
and i know that's probably not true for people
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.179
who do studio work who are working like closer
00:35:22.179 --> 00:35:25.119
to like making assets for example but on my end
00:35:25.119 --> 00:35:27.780
i'm not seeing it like i said before my bigger
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:30.079
issue is like the fact that like you know microsoft
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.420
laid off the entire uh accessibility team on
00:35:33.420 --> 00:35:36.739
at xbox they're gone uh that oh really yeah sorry
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:43.880
so sad they did amazing work it was a great team
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.820
so they laid off the entire team that was because
00:35:46.820 --> 00:35:49.900
to for what what was the motivation apart from
00:35:49.900 --> 00:35:52.940
the money you know saving money was just just
00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:55.420
money yeah it's just money it's just to them
00:35:55.420 --> 00:35:58.099
it's cutting fat and unfortunately in their brain
00:35:58.099 --> 00:36:02.119
if it's not ai slop spendage it's fat so you
00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:04.099
know they'll spend yeah it's just it's really
00:36:04.099 --> 00:36:07.039
sad because not only have they lost their team
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:12.000
but that's also they've lost the years of talent
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.219
and resources and experience and knowledge and
00:36:14.219 --> 00:36:16.920
build up yeah and and exactly and it's all gone
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.800
now um and it's also really hard because the
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.340
people who they're incredible incredibly talented
00:36:22.340 --> 00:36:24.199
like they're full -time right i come in and i
00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:26.519
do consulting on like really particularly difficult
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:29.260
questions or ones that they need a specific perspective
00:36:29.260 --> 00:36:31.599
on but those are the people you know fighting
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:33.840
the good fight working really hard every day
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:35.360
in and day out and they're gone now which just
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:38.760
really sucks so you know it is what it is about
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.300
you know working for a large corporation is is
00:36:42.300 --> 00:36:45.599
that they will you know they'll they'll they'll
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:50.260
sort of use you up and throw you away A lesson
00:36:50.260 --> 00:36:54.219
I learned myself. I'd be lucky that I haven't
00:36:54.219 --> 00:36:57.400
been in that situation. I mean, it was bad, you
00:36:57.400 --> 00:36:59.480
know, it's bad enough working for smaller accessibility
00:36:59.480 --> 00:37:03.460
companies, not present company excluded. But
00:37:03.460 --> 00:37:09.619
yeah, I mean, I spent 18 years at TPG and that
00:37:10.800 --> 00:37:17.019
was, yeah. I mean, given that... The last seven
00:37:17.019 --> 00:37:20.840
or eight years, the Americanisation of the company,
00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:22.719
because it's always been an American company
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:26.639
because Mike ran it. But it was Mike and a woman
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.260
called Debra Rapsis and an Irish guy called Charlie
00:37:30.260 --> 00:37:35.239
Pike. But, you know, when people say, oh, your
00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:38.760
company's like, it's a family, but it's actually
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:42.300
not. But it was actually like a family. I mean,
00:37:42.380 --> 00:37:47.619
during... Back in 2016, my wife had breast cancer.
00:37:47.980 --> 00:37:51.659
But I basically didn't work for six months. And
00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:54.400
they paid me and they were fine. And, you know,
00:37:54.420 --> 00:37:58.119
there was no pressure like that. So, yeah. And
00:37:58.119 --> 00:38:02.610
when I say that, you know, that we would like
00:38:02.900 --> 00:38:06.619
Tetralogical to... That's what I mean. I mean,
00:38:06.619 --> 00:38:09.679
obviously, we have constraints or whatever, but
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:14.559
we would like to... And also that Leonie does
00:38:14.559 --> 00:38:18.260
say there's not a family. So, and I agree with
00:38:18.260 --> 00:38:22.360
that, but I've experienced, you know, in the
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:27.000
past where people actually did, but as it became
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:32.039
more American, Americanized, we were partly shielded
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:35.980
because the working remotely and working from
00:38:35.980 --> 00:38:38.719
the UK, like, you know, we have laws in the UK
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:41.260
that we get four weeks holiday, you know, minimum.
00:38:41.949 --> 00:38:46.570
So, but in America, you know, it's like, is it
00:38:46.570 --> 00:38:49.150
higher at will or something? And, you know, but
00:38:49.150 --> 00:38:51.170
they can lay you off, you know, just like that.
00:38:51.250 --> 00:38:54.849
People get initially maybe a week's holiday and
00:38:54.849 --> 00:38:59.099
then it goes up over time. Yep. Yeah. So I've
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:02.820
never experienced that. But also, you know, I've
00:39:02.820 --> 00:39:05.320
always lived in countries that have had universal
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:09.739
health care. And so I never experienced the American
00:39:09.739 --> 00:39:14.300
situation, gladly. um yeah it sucks i'll tell
00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:16.179
you that like i've got great insurance through
00:39:16.179 --> 00:39:18.960
my partner but like it still sucks like yeah
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.340
i had a an amazing procedure this year because
00:39:21.340 --> 00:39:24.199
i have hyper mobile elders danlos as well and
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:28.429
um i've had a lot of hds have you heard of eds
00:39:28.429 --> 00:39:33.210
no no okay um so hypermobile elders danlos syndrome
00:39:33.210 --> 00:39:35.909
is a connective tissue disorder so basically
00:39:35.909 --> 00:39:39.030
all of my connective tissue uh just doesn't work
00:39:39.030 --> 00:39:41.750
really great so that's uh including like joints
00:39:41.750 --> 00:39:44.110
but then also technically your body is made up
00:39:44.110 --> 00:39:46.550
of mostly connective tissue like your heart your
00:39:46.550 --> 00:39:50.570
stomach um you know lots of fun important things
00:39:50.570 --> 00:39:54.289
in your body so um as i get older it's gonna
00:39:54.289 --> 00:39:56.829
like it's basically turning into cement way faster
00:39:56.829 --> 00:39:59.570
than it should but I deal with a lot of like
00:39:59.570 --> 00:40:02.730
supplications. So like partial dislocations and
00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:07.010
to help with that. So I had, I had herniated
00:40:07.010 --> 00:40:09.789
a disc in my back and because I kept dislocating
00:40:09.789 --> 00:40:11.570
my hips over and over and over, I could never
00:40:11.570 --> 00:40:16.010
really heal from it. And I found through, I have
00:40:16.010 --> 00:40:20.150
a wonderful doctor and through, through her and
00:40:20.150 --> 00:40:22.349
through an amazing physical therapist who specializes
00:40:22.349 --> 00:40:26.860
in EDS, I found a procedure that i got done and
00:40:26.860 --> 00:40:29.000
it was like really it was a lot but i got it
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.019
done and it was out of pocket thousands of dollars
00:40:32.019 --> 00:40:34.800
like thousands and it's life -changing and everybody
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.019
who has eds uh if you're listening anybody who
00:40:38.019 --> 00:40:41.440
has eds i got um it's called uh oh no i forgot
00:40:41.440 --> 00:40:43.219
what it's called because i'm trying to call on
00:40:43.219 --> 00:40:46.590
that information right now um it's got something
00:40:46.590 --> 00:40:50.110
therapy prolo therapy so it basically they they
00:40:50.110 --> 00:40:54.480
shoot sugar water into your joint and it creates
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.440
an inflammation reaction that creates scar tissue.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.340
So because my connective tissue isn't doing enough
00:41:00.340 --> 00:41:02.659
work and can't handle the job, they're like,
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:05.000
let's just make new tissue. So you go in and
00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.940
they inject sugar water into my spine. And it
00:41:08.940 --> 00:41:11.679
has been life -changing for me. Like I, when
00:41:11.679 --> 00:41:14.039
you said your ass hurts, like, oh yeah, it's
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:16.000
been incredible. Like I'd been in bed for years
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.210
and now like. I remember when I was able to sit
00:41:19.210 --> 00:41:21.150
in a chair for like extended periods of time,
00:41:21.210 --> 00:41:23.630
I was like, my ass hurts. Like sitting in a chair
00:41:23.630 --> 00:41:27.289
is not all it's chalked up to be. But yeah, like
00:41:27.289 --> 00:41:29.110
with my insurance, even though I have good insurance,
00:41:29.210 --> 00:41:32.670
because EDS mostly affects women, it's not covered.
00:41:32.769 --> 00:41:34.630
Like they don't give a shit. So I had to pay
00:41:34.630 --> 00:41:36.809
like thousands out of pocket for it. And like,
00:41:36.829 --> 00:41:39.429
I'm glad I did it, but like, holy, you know,
00:41:39.449 --> 00:41:42.909
they don't give a fuck. I mean, I just, I have
00:41:42.909 --> 00:41:47.050
some sort of. visceral sort of dislike for, just
00:41:47.050 --> 00:41:53.469
as you dislike LinkedIn, I dislike private healthcare.
00:41:53.789 --> 00:41:59.250
I mean, saying that we offer like top -up private
00:41:59.250 --> 00:42:02.889
healthcare to all the people that work at Techological,
00:42:03.269 --> 00:42:07.030
but, you know, that is, you say, you know, like
00:42:07.030 --> 00:42:10.809
if you've got something you can get, but I have
00:42:10.809 --> 00:42:13.960
it, but I use it because it... I just don't,
00:42:13.960 --> 00:42:19.119
I believe in the NHS. And so, I mean, you know,
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:24.000
as I said, I think I said online, but I had been
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:28.539
diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. And since then,
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:31.500
I've lost a lot of weight in order to get back
00:42:31.500 --> 00:42:35.579
down to my ideal weight or, you know, sort of
00:42:35.579 --> 00:42:41.110
like the BMI thing. But I went, you know. any
00:42:41.110 --> 00:42:43.730
any medical procedures any process i went through
00:42:43.730 --> 00:42:47.789
the the uh the nhs because and and they've been
00:42:47.789 --> 00:42:52.610
you know very responsive and and uh yeah they're
00:42:52.610 --> 00:42:57.010
doing a great job so i don't and i i will be
00:42:57.010 --> 00:43:01.329
it doesn't cost a red cent it was funny because
00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:03.690
like you think i'm canadian i'm like damn i wish
00:43:03.690 --> 00:43:07.719
i had that health insurance man yeah yeah exactly
00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:11.760
i've been It was like, because I've been taking
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.380
medication most of my adult life. This is no
00:43:14.380 --> 00:43:17.380
prior, you know, like I've said about it before,
00:43:17.539 --> 00:43:23.199
that I take Sertraline. And when I, when, up
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:28.179
until I was 60, each couple of months when I
00:43:28.179 --> 00:43:32.039
had to get my new prescriptions, you have to
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:34.760
pay a copayment of like nine quid or something
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:36.840
per prescription. It doesn't matter what it is.
00:43:36.920 --> 00:43:38.889
It could be worth, you know. Like the actual
00:43:38.889 --> 00:43:41.750
cost is, it doesn't matter, but you've got to
00:43:41.750 --> 00:43:46.409
pay a copay. And when I turned 60, I walked in
00:43:46.409 --> 00:43:50.329
there and the guy looked at my, he said, oh,
00:43:50.389 --> 00:43:53.090
happy birthday or something like that. He said,
00:43:53.150 --> 00:43:56.570
you don't have to pay anymore. So once I turned
00:43:56.570 --> 00:44:00.969
60, I didn't have to pay. And my, you know, when
00:44:00.969 --> 00:44:03.809
my daughter hasn't had to pay for any of her
00:44:03.809 --> 00:44:06.929
medication because she's under 18. full -time
00:44:06.929 --> 00:44:12.789
education when my wife had um cancer uh free
00:44:12.789 --> 00:44:17.730
you know any medication i think it's it's free
00:44:17.730 --> 00:44:20.210
medication for life now for her because it's
00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:23.940
great yeah i mean it's just that the yes i'm
00:44:23.940 --> 00:44:26.679
not saying it's a perfect system but it's fuckball
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:32.019
uh workable and and uh equitable than than the
00:44:32.019 --> 00:44:34.980
american system absolutely i couldn't agree more
00:44:34.980 --> 00:44:37.300
and like i'm privileged enough to have traveled
00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:41.059
when i was younger um and i studied abroad several
00:44:41.059 --> 00:44:43.380
times in germany and i'll never forget it was
00:44:43.380 --> 00:44:45.500
like a big like moment for me as like a young
00:44:45.500 --> 00:44:50.659
person when i told i told my host sister i said
00:44:50.659 --> 00:44:54.039
to her she was like well what do like we were
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:56.929
talking about like debt healthcare debt and she
00:44:56.929 --> 00:44:58.889
was like couldn't wrap her head around it and
00:44:58.889 --> 00:45:01.590
i said to her that some people choose to die
00:45:01.590 --> 00:45:04.449
of cancer rather than leave their family in crippling
00:45:04.449 --> 00:45:08.409
debt and i'm watching the blood drain from her
00:45:08.409 --> 00:45:11.230
face and she had to like sit down and i was like
00:45:11.230 --> 00:45:14.590
oh that is such an abhorrent concept to this
00:45:14.590 --> 00:45:17.869
german person yeah that it's so normalized for
00:45:17.869 --> 00:45:20.730
me and it was a really like life changing that
00:45:20.730 --> 00:45:22.449
was like a kind of a pivotal moment for me to
00:45:22.449 --> 00:45:25.230
be like oh like people joke that they say like
00:45:25.230 --> 00:45:27.030
oh i'm in the bad place like that was a big moment
00:45:27.030 --> 00:45:30.489
for me to be like oh this horribly extractive
00:45:30.489 --> 00:45:33.170
system that has been so normalized to me maybe
00:45:33.170 --> 00:45:36.269
it's actually pretty fucked up like to see that
00:45:36.269 --> 00:45:38.130
reaction was like it was really visceral and
00:45:38.130 --> 00:45:40.389
i still remember it so like clearly yeah and
00:45:40.389 --> 00:45:45.369
then so yeah i mean yeah it is really hard for
00:45:45.369 --> 00:45:47.809
for me that someone because you know i grew up
00:45:47.809 --> 00:45:52.170
in australia and i moved to the uk and the australian
00:45:52.170 --> 00:45:56.829
australian have a a you know, a universal healthcare
00:45:56.829 --> 00:46:00.210
system. And there is some co -payment for certain
00:46:00.210 --> 00:46:03.070
things, but it's not handled by, you know, it's
00:46:03.070 --> 00:46:05.570
done by, it's a government thing rather than,
00:46:05.570 --> 00:46:08.289
and so it's a lot more equitable. And so I lived
00:46:08.289 --> 00:46:10.849
there for that. And then I came to the UK and
00:46:10.849 --> 00:46:13.690
obviously the NHS and, you know, other places
00:46:13.690 --> 00:46:17.710
in Europe have similar social healthcare systems.
00:46:17.929 --> 00:46:22.590
And it is really like, it's just, just to get
00:46:22.590 --> 00:46:27.139
my head around. the reasons why because the america
00:46:27.139 --> 00:46:29.539
has the health care system that the health care
00:46:29.539 --> 00:46:31.820
system does because it's all about extracting
00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:35.559
money out of out of people that in their you
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:38.659
know hour of need i mean it's fucked let's you
00:46:38.659 --> 00:46:41.599
know i mean i'm i'm sorry i mean i'm not saying
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:45.300
that america's a fuck but that system is well
00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:48.739
yeah no it is yeah i agree I'm on a lot of really
00:46:48.739 --> 00:46:51.400
expensive meds and I, I definitely agree that
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.519
it's fucked. So yeah, I don't think that's a
00:46:53.519 --> 00:46:56.300
pretty lukewarm take in my opinion. Like I'm
00:46:56.300 --> 00:46:57.920
not worried about that one getting out there.
00:46:58.139 --> 00:47:02.460
Shell little thinks that healthcare is ass. Well,
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:05.980
yeah, yeah. Don't worry. I mean, I don't pick
00:47:05.980 --> 00:47:10.719
out controversial points. Oh no. No. Well, I
00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:13.099
mean, my own controversial points maybe, but
00:47:13.099 --> 00:47:16.500
I don't, you know, like I don't create clickbait.
00:47:16.929 --> 00:47:19.989
But I'm thinking about it. Yeah, yeah. I mean,
00:47:20.010 --> 00:47:21.829
I said earlier that Steve Faulkner is horrible
00:47:21.829 --> 00:47:23.510
at presenting. Feel free to take that out of
00:47:23.510 --> 00:47:27.510
context. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I will. Just a little
00:47:27.510 --> 00:47:33.610
super disrespectful. Yeah, I'm used to it from
00:47:33.670 --> 00:47:37.530
people. I mean, I've been chatting with Eric
00:47:37.530 --> 00:47:41.570
Bailey and he treats me like shit. Most people
00:47:41.570 --> 00:47:46.480
do. I'm telling him that. That's why I was saying
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:48.619
that, because I know you might be listening and
00:47:48.619 --> 00:47:51.699
know. Oh, my God, he's in the other room. Yeah.
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.579
It's funny with something like Eric, because
00:47:54.579 --> 00:47:57.320
at first, like, before I, this is one of the
00:47:57.320 --> 00:47:59.239
people I was talking about, and when I talked
00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:04.320
to them, before that I, like, I had met Eric,
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.940
you know, a number of occasions previously and
00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:13.099
seen him talk, but I... was like suspicious of
00:48:13.099 --> 00:48:16.619
his sincerity because like some some american
00:48:16.619 --> 00:48:19.260
people could be really over sincere i'm not just
00:48:19.260 --> 00:48:22.599
it's not just americans no it's ah yeah i know
00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:25.019
that yeah you know what i mean but but but then
00:48:25.469 --> 00:48:31.929
that um eric wears his heart on his sleeve but
00:48:31.929 --> 00:48:35.769
he's he actually lives you know it's it's true
00:48:35.769 --> 00:48:38.349
and that's what i really appreciate about him
00:48:38.349 --> 00:48:44.420
so i started to that i coined the name for him
00:48:44.420 --> 00:48:47.900
of the web existentialist because he reminds
00:48:47.900 --> 00:48:52.179
me of the existential sort of writers. I love
00:48:52.179 --> 00:48:56.510
that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm, I'm really lucky to have
00:48:56.510 --> 00:48:59.150
Eric as a friend. Like he's a very great friend,
00:48:59.230 --> 00:49:03.090
like him and my partner get on there. Yeah. It's
00:49:03.090 --> 00:49:04.489
we're really lucky. He's like, can we come out?
00:49:04.550 --> 00:49:05.989
Can I come out and visit? And I was like, absolutely.
00:49:06.190 --> 00:49:08.389
And you're staying with us. And he's like, excellent.
00:49:08.610 --> 00:49:11.369
So we see him every year or, you know, he's a
00:49:11.369 --> 00:49:14.250
great friend. Yeah. That's cool. And that's part
00:49:14.250 --> 00:49:16.210
of the reason, you know, like I'd like to go
00:49:16.210 --> 00:49:20.809
to XSVTO because I used to go to CSUN, but I
00:49:20.809 --> 00:49:24.030
haven't been to CSUN since. since um trump came
00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:30.000
back into power and i i will not or i don't i
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.119
wouldn't feel comfortable going to america until
00:49:32.119 --> 00:49:35.460
there's regime change put it that way i don't
00:49:35.460 --> 00:49:38.320
blame you i don't blame you at all so so you
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:43.139
know like but i always went to um to i've regularly
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:46.599
attended xvto but it is my go -to conference
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:50.800
for the year uh now because also because people
00:49:50.800 --> 00:49:54.769
like well This is at the point where I'll bring
00:49:54.769 --> 00:50:01.019
up the Rose Gallery and we can chat. I thought
00:50:01.019 --> 00:50:04.940
I was going to sneak us past. No, no, no. Oh,
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:08.159
God, we've been an hour already talking. I've
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:10.559
got to do the Rose Gallery. I spent a good 15
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:13.960
minutes putting it together. Oh, okay. If you've
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:16.099
spent 15 minutes on it, all right, let's do this.
00:50:16.420 --> 00:50:19.039
I was going to ask jokingly, is this just like
00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:23.659
a humiliation ritual? No, not at all. No, it's
00:50:23.659 --> 00:50:28.059
not. It's just because I like to talk about other,
00:50:28.179 --> 00:50:32.369
you know, I like to talk about the people I know,
00:50:32.489 --> 00:50:35.389
especially my friends, because I love people
00:50:35.389 --> 00:50:40.610
for whatever reason. I love that. I love that
00:50:40.610 --> 00:50:43.710
for you. I appreciate them. Now, see, this is
00:50:43.710 --> 00:50:45.369
where it gets difficult because I can't. Oh,
00:50:45.369 --> 00:50:49.929
there it is. All right. Because I used to do
00:50:49.929 --> 00:50:55.219
it in PowerPoint. And, you know, as this series
00:50:55.219 --> 00:51:02.889
has gone on, I've just made it simpler and simpler
00:51:02.889 --> 00:51:07.429
as possible for myself because otherwise I just
00:51:07.429 --> 00:51:11.730
fuck everything up. But hold on. Let me just
00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:18.000
now. Oh, no. So it's like, yeah, it's always
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:22.889
just a bit of a process. okay technology i think
00:51:22.889 --> 00:51:24.730
i think technology can smell fear personally
00:51:24.730 --> 00:51:27.210
like printers they know when you're on a deadline
00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:32.710
they know oh exactly so um yeah because it's
00:51:32.710 --> 00:51:36.190
also a bit my daughters make fun of me because
00:51:36.190 --> 00:51:39.409
i only use basically one figure to type and they
00:51:39.409 --> 00:51:41.849
can't understand how i've spent a lot yeah i
00:51:41.849 --> 00:51:45.150
do use other but i don't touch type um but especially
00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:47.989
when i'm using a phone i'm sort of like really
00:51:47.989 --> 00:51:51.940
yeah and they sort of I can't understand how
00:51:51.940 --> 00:51:56.519
I was able to be in this industry for the past
00:51:56.519 --> 00:52:02.179
30 years and do coding and stuff all with one
00:52:02.179 --> 00:52:05.329
figure. I'm not going to tell them my secret.
00:52:05.869 --> 00:52:11.889
So here's the Rose Gallery. And these are all
00:52:11.889 --> 00:52:19.050
pictures from XSVTO of various years. Some of
00:52:19.050 --> 00:52:20.849
the people, well, most of the people I know,
00:52:21.989 --> 00:52:25.230
or, you know, unknown people. And then some of
00:52:25.230 --> 00:52:28.150
the, well, a couple of them, I just took a picture
00:52:28.150 --> 00:52:30.829
and I can't remember who they are. And I thought
00:52:30.829 --> 00:52:33.769
as you were from local, from Canada, you might
00:52:33.769 --> 00:52:37.170
know who they were, but you probably won't. Yes,
00:52:37.170 --> 00:52:41.550
my little famous Canadian. Yeah. Well, I also,
00:52:44.030 --> 00:52:49.150
you may or may not know a guy called Matt Marquis.
00:52:49.880 --> 00:52:54.300
who lives in Boston as well. But I thought he
00:52:54.300 --> 00:52:57.599
was from Brooklyn for some reason. So I started
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:00.360
talking to him and I did the interview with him.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:04.039
He's another person that I've got to finish up
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:07.000
and publish. So I've got like four. I've sort
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:13.539
of backed up. Like I've got digital constipation
00:53:13.539 --> 00:53:16.840
in a way. I've got all these things, all these
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.929
people that I need to. Yeah. So you'll be back
00:53:20.929 --> 00:53:26.329
on the bus, but you will be there. You see, yeah.
00:53:26.409 --> 00:53:29.230
But what I was trying to say was that guy, the
00:53:29.230 --> 00:53:31.730
guy that I talked to last week, Matt Markey,
00:53:31.809 --> 00:53:35.750
he's not from Brooklyn. He's from Boston. But
00:53:35.750 --> 00:53:38.829
for some reason, I thought he was from Brooklyn.
00:53:38.969 --> 00:53:42.809
It stuck in my head. Hey, like I said, there
00:53:42.809 --> 00:53:45.349
are worse places to be associated with than Toronto.
00:53:45.909 --> 00:53:51.670
Exactly. So top left. um if i can't see anything
00:53:51.670 --> 00:53:53.590
steve just letting you know we're just here on
00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:58.400
vibes how's this is that better i'll let you
00:53:58.400 --> 00:53:59.960
know i can't you're not sharing your screen for
00:53:59.960 --> 00:54:03.340
me so oh it says i'm sharing my screen that's
00:54:03.340 --> 00:54:05.519
weird let me let me double check make sure didn't
00:54:05.519 --> 00:54:07.219
go to a second window or something that'd be
00:54:07.219 --> 00:54:11.340
crazy oh it did it just went to a second window
00:54:11.340 --> 00:54:13.980
interesting all right thanks zoom thanks zoom
00:54:13.980 --> 00:54:17.460
yeah it's good like that so okay let me make
00:54:17.460 --> 00:54:27.199
this big okay so Top left, and do you know who
00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:30.280
the person on the right is? Have you ever met
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:33.489
him? I've never met him, but I know his name
00:54:33.489 --> 00:54:36.050
because you put him in the top left corner every
00:54:36.050 --> 00:54:38.510
time of this. I know, but that's not the person.
00:54:38.530 --> 00:54:42.650
That's the person on the right. You're asking
00:54:42.650 --> 00:54:46.550
about the person on the left? Yeah. No, I don't
00:54:46.550 --> 00:54:47.929
know who that is. That is a guy by the name of
00:54:47.929 --> 00:54:51.809
Johnny James who... Oh, I maybe, maybe heard
00:54:51.809 --> 00:54:54.889
his name before. Yeah. He's been involved. I
00:54:54.889 --> 00:54:59.159
think he was, he works a volunteer for XSVTO
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:00.900
a number of times. He's a friend of Billy's.
00:55:00.920 --> 00:55:04.940
Billy got him into TPG many years ago, and then
00:55:04.940 --> 00:55:09.000
he fucked off. Well, not him. Billy fucked off
00:55:09.000 --> 00:55:11.980
and went and lived here. Yeah, he's at Ubi. Yeah.
00:55:13.739 --> 00:55:18.139
I made a point of not having his visage on here
00:55:18.139 --> 00:55:22.829
because. Everybody knows Billy. So anyway, this
00:55:22.829 --> 00:55:26.670
is me, T .O., and that is my good friend Dave
00:55:26.670 --> 00:55:29.150
Swallow and my other good friend Johnny James.
00:55:30.449 --> 00:55:38.349
So, yeah. Then next to... So you should know
00:55:38.349 --> 00:55:41.969
now who the person on the left is. That's Pat.
00:55:42.469 --> 00:55:46.639
I've seen Pat speak. Yes. Well, yeah. And then
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:49.239
Johnny James next room. And Johnny James, yeah.
00:55:49.590 --> 00:55:53.510
Yeah, that was from XSVTO at some time. I think
00:55:53.510 --> 00:56:00.340
it was 2023 when I announced that I was joining
00:56:00.340 --> 00:56:10.179
Tetralogical. So the next picture. I know two
00:56:10.179 --> 00:56:12.980
of those people, which is pretty cool. I didn't
00:56:12.980 --> 00:56:14.500
think I'd know anybody. So thank you for going
00:56:14.500 --> 00:56:17.579
easy on me. Well, it's not about making, yeah.
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:21.659
But yeah, so. Who do you know? We've got Adrian
00:56:21.659 --> 00:56:23.920
Roselli, and then I'm pretty sure that's Scott.
00:56:24.320 --> 00:56:28.340
Yeah, yeah. And then I don't know the woman in
00:56:28.340 --> 00:56:32.039
the middle. Yeah, I'm really bad with names.
00:56:32.099 --> 00:56:37.800
It's the partner of... I thought so. I was going
00:56:37.800 --> 00:56:41.260
to say, is it Makoto White? Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah,
00:56:41.260 --> 00:56:43.860
yeah. Okay. Yeah, it is. I don't know why she's
00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:49.360
dressed like that. It was something that we were
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:54.420
at the XSVTO event. And, yeah, there's a rare
00:56:54.420 --> 00:56:59.000
shot of Scott smiling because he usually frowns.
00:56:59.019 --> 00:57:03.659
And both of, yeah, I've been trying to sort of
00:57:03.659 --> 00:57:06.679
entice Scott to come to XSVTO this year because
00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:09.820
I haven't seen him for ages. But I'm glad to
00:57:09.820 --> 00:57:14.320
say that Adrian will be there because he only
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:17.090
lives in Buffalo and he drives up. And him and
00:57:17.090 --> 00:57:21.909
his partner are coming. And I really, yeah. I
00:57:21.909 --> 00:57:25.030
like Adrian because he allows me to take the
00:57:25.030 --> 00:57:27.969
piss out of him. And it's quite easy to. But,
00:57:27.969 --> 00:57:30.449
you know, like he has a sort of gruff exterior
00:57:30.449 --> 00:57:34.030
or sort of people are somewhat intimidated by
00:57:34.030 --> 00:57:36.929
him, but I'm not. So I enjoy it. I enjoy it.
00:57:37.170 --> 00:57:39.730
No, I really like Adrian. I'm lucky enough to
00:57:39.730 --> 00:57:42.699
call him a friend and he's been, I don't know,
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:45.559
like I can't count the times. on like he's just
00:57:45.559 --> 00:57:48.420
been such a great resource and like supportive
00:57:48.420 --> 00:57:51.099
so he's he's a great guy we have a we have a
00:57:51.099 --> 00:57:52.960
group chat with a couple of us and if i ever
00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:54.820
need to bother him i'm like i know exactly where
00:57:54.820 --> 00:57:57.719
to go to bother yeah no that's good yeah i mean
00:57:57.719 --> 00:58:03.889
i talked to him on uh signal i think and is it
00:58:03.889 --> 00:58:07.150
simple yes signal that's where i use we've moved
00:58:07.150 --> 00:58:11.030
most of our chats to but um yeah so i i was like
00:58:11.030 --> 00:58:14.159
we you know have back channeling about stuff
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:18.150
but it's always i always enjoy a good chat with
00:58:18.150 --> 00:58:23.809
with adrian so the next person now that's eric
00:58:23.809 --> 00:58:27.469
egert i'm pretty sure no no his name eric though
00:58:27.469 --> 00:58:29.250
right his name's eric yeah i couldn't remember
00:58:29.250 --> 00:58:32.110
his second night yeah what's his last name yeah
00:58:32.110 --> 00:58:35.750
i whenever i think eric i immediately think eric
00:58:35.750 --> 00:58:39.750
idol you know the guy from well the person that
00:58:39.750 --> 00:58:43.960
was in monty python his name's eric It's not,
00:58:44.079 --> 00:58:48.219
I can't like, yeah, I'll find out, but that's
00:58:48.219 --> 00:58:52.070
Eric anyway. And he used to work for Booz Allen.
00:58:52.949 --> 00:58:56.269
He's an American. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. I've
00:58:56.269 --> 00:58:57.730
met him a couple of times back when I was like
00:58:57.730 --> 00:59:02.090
speaking way more. Nice guy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't
00:59:02.090 --> 00:59:03.409
have much to say other than he's a really nice
00:59:03.409 --> 00:59:05.510
guy. And I think when I heard him speak, he was,
00:59:05.510 --> 00:59:08.409
he did a great job. Yeah. He's just one of the,
00:59:08.409 --> 00:59:12.699
the, the. Interesting people that I captured
00:59:12.699 --> 00:59:15.739
at Existio. Do you know the person at the bottom
00:59:15.739 --> 00:59:21.420
left? I sure hope so. Why? That's one of my best
00:59:21.420 --> 00:59:23.780
friends. That's Sarah Higley. Oh, I didn't know
00:59:23.780 --> 00:59:26.699
she... I knew she was a friend with Adrian and
00:59:26.699 --> 00:59:29.579
Adrian's wife, but I didn't know she was your...
00:59:29.579 --> 00:59:33.969
She's everybody's friend except mine. Oh, I heard
00:59:33.969 --> 00:59:37.110
you talking. Sorry, go away. I heard you talking
00:59:37.110 --> 00:59:38.809
that you're like, I can't get her on this show.
00:59:38.949 --> 00:59:40.489
I thought that was really funny. She's hard to,
00:59:40.530 --> 00:59:43.369
she's even more encrypted than I am. But yeah,
00:59:43.449 --> 00:59:45.969
Sarah's one of my best friends. She's been one
00:59:45.969 --> 00:59:48.150
of my close confidants. Yeah, I love Sarah so
00:59:48.150 --> 00:59:51.309
much. I don't, I'm not, yeah. I mean, it would
00:59:51.309 --> 00:59:55.889
be nice to talk to her, but it's that I, you
00:59:55.889 --> 00:59:57.889
know, I'm not offended by the fact that she avoids
00:59:57.889 --> 01:00:01.230
me. But I don't think it's you. I think she avoids.
01:00:01.659 --> 01:00:03.880
being perceived like that but right now she's
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:06.340
in china she left me for like a month and i'm
01:00:06.340 --> 01:00:10.320
like get back here so but yeah i miss her a lot
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.940
so yeah and i was asking adrian if she was if
01:00:13.940 --> 01:00:18.539
she was coming to like chat to her i mean i think
01:00:18.539 --> 01:00:22.639
she is oh cool excellent i don't just dislike
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:26.230
her for any other reason than what you know I
01:00:26.230 --> 01:00:28.530
always got to find some reason to dislike people.
01:00:29.090 --> 01:00:35.150
Really? No, I don't. I don't really. But I remember
01:00:35.150 --> 01:00:37.630
that we would, I was sitting there with Adrian
01:00:37.630 --> 01:00:40.349
and a few other people at the Accessory T .O.
01:00:40.409 --> 01:00:44.610
and that, where the conference hotel residents
01:00:44.610 --> 01:00:49.090
in, it's a really weird place. It is. And the
01:00:49.090 --> 01:00:54.170
barman there is, yeah. I've got stories about
01:00:54.170 --> 01:00:56.769
him, but I won't tell them now. But anyway, the
01:00:56.769 --> 01:01:00.469
thing I was trying to say was that Sarah was
01:01:00.469 --> 01:01:05.170
saying that myself, I was part of the old school
01:01:05.170 --> 01:01:08.329
or, you know, the older generation. And it suddenly
01:01:08.329 --> 01:01:11.289
just hit, I just felt bad that she said that
01:01:11.289 --> 01:01:14.170
Adrian was as well. And I definitely, yeah, just,
01:01:14.269 --> 01:01:19.480
I don't, like being old is one thing, but being
01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:23.639
perceived as old is. It's the same thing. Yeah,
01:01:23.639 --> 01:01:28.050
how dare. No, it's fine. I mean, it's just that
01:01:28.050 --> 01:01:31.630
it's an interesting idea that I didn't perceive
01:01:31.630 --> 01:01:37.150
there to be a distance between people like her
01:01:37.150 --> 01:01:42.500
and contemporaries like Scott because, you know,
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:45.489
I don't know. I just didn't perceive it that
01:01:45.489 --> 01:01:48.369
way, but obviously other people do. But at the
01:01:48.369 --> 01:01:51.110
same, I think it was, yeah, it was the same.
01:01:51.480 --> 01:01:56.719
Accessory T .O., that somebody that I worked
01:01:56.719 --> 01:02:00.960
with at TPG was making fun of the way I was dressed
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:04.260
because basically saying it wasn't age appropriate.
01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:08.179
You know, because, you know, I wear shit like
01:02:08.179 --> 01:02:11.260
this, you know. You're supposed to wear suits
01:02:11.260 --> 01:02:13.940
at a certain age? Like what? I don't know. I
01:02:13.940 --> 01:02:17.139
mean, I was looking at a picture of my dad and
01:02:17.139 --> 01:02:21.409
he was, you know, wears war. When he was alive,
01:02:21.489 --> 01:02:26.730
long shorts, long socks, and slip -ons. So he
01:02:26.730 --> 01:02:31.690
looked like a dad. But I don't know. But then
01:02:31.690 --> 01:02:34.889
I was walking around Kingston the other day,
01:02:34.949 --> 01:02:39.969
just listening to music, looking at where I live
01:02:39.969 --> 01:02:42.530
locally. It's quite an interesting place. And
01:02:42.530 --> 01:02:48.250
then I took a selfie because... I just wanted
01:02:48.250 --> 01:02:49.690
to capture something that was happening behind
01:02:49.690 --> 01:02:52.050
me, people climbing up, because there's this
01:02:52.050 --> 01:02:57.510
art installation, which is like the falling letterboxes,
01:02:57.510 --> 01:03:01.110
so like the classic red letterbox, and there's
01:03:01.110 --> 01:03:04.389
sort of like a group of them sort of like falling,
01:03:04.449 --> 01:03:05.869
they look like they're falling, and the kids
01:03:05.869 --> 01:03:08.190
were climbing over them, so I wanted to, but
01:03:08.190 --> 01:03:11.489
in the process, I saw what I was, like I was
01:03:11.489 --> 01:03:14.590
wearing an orange T -shirt, and with accessories
01:03:14.590 --> 01:03:19.139
on, so I suddenly started thinking, i'm too old
01:03:19.139 --> 01:03:21.179
you know like i felt as if i was because then
01:03:21.179 --> 01:03:23.860
that's when i saw my scrotum neck as well yeah
01:03:23.860 --> 01:03:26.280
the scrotum neck yeah yeah it all sort of came
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:30.159
came at me in a rush yeah yeah who am i trying
01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:33.280
to fool i'm an old man i should you know dress
01:03:33.280 --> 01:03:36.019
like an old man but then yeah but i talked to
01:03:36.019 --> 01:03:38.480
a couple of people about it and they said don't
01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:40.460
be an idiot just you know you are what you is
01:03:40.460 --> 01:03:43.389
type thing just dress how you wanna you know
01:03:43.389 --> 01:03:46.030
yeah that's a big thing like for me like with
01:03:46.030 --> 01:03:49.239
burnout and everything is like a big a big thing
01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:53.099
was with masking is just figuring out like how
01:03:53.099 --> 01:03:55.400
do I actually want to look versus how do I think
01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:59.320
I should look professionally like yeah and now
01:03:59.320 --> 01:04:01.480
having a wardrobe where I'm like I wake up and
01:04:01.480 --> 01:04:03.400
I'm like I like what I look like rather than
01:04:03.400 --> 01:04:06.119
like I'm wearing these clothes because they will
01:04:07.090 --> 01:04:11.550
be expected of me in these spaces. So it's, it's,
01:04:11.550 --> 01:04:13.429
it's an important thing is to ask yourself, do
01:04:13.429 --> 01:04:15.289
I look like this because I want to, or because
01:04:15.289 --> 01:04:18.690
I think guys should. So it's important. Yeah,
01:04:18.829 --> 01:04:21.929
it is. And, and, you know, thankfully I've, I've
01:04:21.929 --> 01:04:25.769
been in a, you know, a work environment where
01:04:25.769 --> 01:04:28.309
I haven't had to worry about those things for,
01:04:28.369 --> 01:04:31.710
you know, for a long time and so long that, you
01:04:31.710 --> 01:04:36.179
know, I, I don't at all. I mean, like I bought
01:04:36.179 --> 01:04:39.500
a new pair of slacks from, you know, trousers.
01:04:40.820 --> 01:04:42.820
They're a bit more dressy, but I only bought
01:04:42.820 --> 01:04:46.300
them because I was going to a friend's wedding
01:04:46.300 --> 01:04:49.980
or one is actually a friend, but also I manage
01:04:49.980 --> 01:04:53.019
it. And so I thought I'd just look. But that
01:04:53.019 --> 01:04:55.440
was the first time. The only other like suit
01:04:55.440 --> 01:04:58.900
I have is the suit I got married in, which was
01:04:58.900 --> 01:05:03.820
long ago. So, yeah, it's not something that I
01:05:03.820 --> 01:05:06.980
worry about. But yeah. I have an orange cat who
01:05:06.980 --> 01:05:09.920
really wants to be made aware. He wants everybody
01:05:09.920 --> 01:05:13.159
to be really aware that he's here. We've got
01:05:13.159 --> 01:05:16.699
two cats and a dog at home, so. He's just like
01:05:16.699 --> 01:05:18.260
hitting me in the face. I'm like, dude, get off
01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:22.059
the desk, man. That's all right. But yeah, so
01:05:22.059 --> 01:05:27.239
Sarah Higley. Yeah, I'd like to. I'll ask her.
01:05:27.380 --> 01:05:31.579
I'll ask her. Yeah, but the thing is, I'm not
01:05:31.579 --> 01:05:34.969
like. People would sometimes say, why are you
01:05:34.969 --> 01:05:39.369
doing this? I'm not doing it for any other reason
01:05:39.369 --> 01:05:45.630
other than I've been working in this space and
01:05:45.630 --> 01:05:51.860
meeting people for so long. And some of the people
01:05:51.860 --> 01:05:54.480
that I've talked to, such as yourself and all
01:05:54.480 --> 01:06:01.460
of the people that I've interviewed, even Dennis
01:06:01.460 --> 01:06:07.190
Lambry, I really like. And, but it's just, you
01:06:07.190 --> 01:06:11.880
know, an excuse to have a chat with people. I
01:06:11.880 --> 01:06:14.159
mean, we would never have talked, you know, like,
01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:17.300
well, if I'd see you at XSVTO or somewhere else,
01:06:17.340 --> 01:06:20.260
then we would chat. But it's not like we go on
01:06:20.260 --> 01:06:23.079
the blog. You're a busy guy at conferences. Like,
01:06:23.119 --> 01:06:24.619
they'll be like, I'll be like, I just want to
01:06:24.619 --> 01:06:26.820
go say hi to Steve. And there's a line of people.
01:06:27.260 --> 01:06:34.369
Like, let the man breathe. And I know that feeling
01:06:34.369 --> 01:06:36.570
too. Like I've, I've been there. Like I gave
01:06:36.570 --> 01:06:38.070
a talk and then people like followed me to the
01:06:38.070 --> 01:06:40.809
bathroom and I was like, can I, can I pee? Oh
01:06:40.809 --> 01:06:44.949
God. Well, yeah. I try not to follow people in
01:06:44.949 --> 01:06:47.909
bathrooms. I think it's, yeah. Don't do that
01:06:47.909 --> 01:06:51.449
people. It's somebody I know like Johnny or Dave
01:06:51.449 --> 01:06:58.500
or, or, or Pat. But anyway, what's saying about
01:06:58.500 --> 01:07:03.929
Sarah closing off. Yeah, it would be nice to
01:07:03.929 --> 01:07:06.789
talk to, but I can perfectly understand. I actually,
01:07:06.889 --> 01:07:10.789
because I was in the Netherlands a couple of
01:07:10.789 --> 01:07:15.210
months ago because I got asked to talk at a conference
01:07:15.210 --> 01:07:17.809
about this thing called the WCAG -EM, which is
01:07:17.809 --> 01:07:20.909
the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Evaluation
01:07:20.909 --> 01:07:26.679
Methodology. And I'm working on an update, which
01:07:26.679 --> 01:07:29.579
just got released about a month ago. But I was
01:07:29.579 --> 01:07:31.800
working with two guys from the... Dutch government,
01:07:31.840 --> 01:07:35.340
a guy called Hiddy de Vries, who's all over,
01:07:35.380 --> 01:07:38.139
like, you know, everywhere he seems to be talking.
01:07:39.239 --> 01:07:44.780
And another guy called Joran Hulscher, both of
01:07:44.780 --> 01:07:46.260
them the Dutch, both of them worked for the Dutch
01:07:46.260 --> 01:07:48.780
government. And they actually used the Waikiki,
01:07:48.920 --> 01:07:52.920
which was really nice, in their process. And
01:07:52.920 --> 01:08:03.610
so I got through Hiddy. I got asked to go to
01:08:03.610 --> 01:08:06.190
this conference and do a talk. It was great.
01:08:06.349 --> 01:08:08.989
I had a really good time. I met up with a number
01:08:08.989 --> 01:08:11.449
of people I hadn't seen in ages, one of them
01:08:11.449 --> 01:08:17.590
being a Dutch person by the name of... I can't
01:08:17.590 --> 01:08:19.989
even remember her name now, but I do know her
01:08:19.989 --> 01:08:23.149
name. Rhian Veitveld, I think, or something.
01:08:23.289 --> 01:08:26.430
She does, you know, accessibility stuff. But
01:08:26.430 --> 01:08:29.970
I can't even remember why I was mentioning her
01:08:29.970 --> 01:08:35.460
now. My brain, yeah. Let's go. We'll come back
01:08:35.460 --> 01:08:39.720
to me. Do you know who that next person is? I
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:44.159
don't, but I recognize them maybe. Yeah, I mean,
01:08:44.199 --> 01:08:48.420
his name... I immediately forgot his second name,
01:08:48.420 --> 01:08:51.460
just like Eric. Yeah, I know. I'm realizing,
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:53.079
I'm like, I know what Eric Eggert looks like.
01:08:53.140 --> 01:08:55.399
That's not Eric Eggert. Yeah, it's not Eric Eggert.
01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:59.720
His name's Johnny something, but I see him quite
01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.800
often and he's a friend of... the other Johnny
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:06.649
as well, and he's a friend of Billy's as well.
01:09:06.750 --> 01:09:09.090
You know, he's a Canadian. Everybody loves him.
01:09:10.229 --> 01:09:14.189
So, but I always, like, the last time I was there,
01:09:14.369 --> 01:09:17.930
I saw him, but I didn't say hi. I meant to say
01:09:17.930 --> 01:09:20.069
hi, and I was just like, so that's why I put
01:09:20.069 --> 01:09:21.989
that on there as a mental note for him to say
01:09:21.989 --> 01:09:28.109
hi next month. These people, I have no idea who
01:09:28.109 --> 01:09:31.210
they are. But I think they worked at Fable or
01:09:31.210 --> 01:09:33.550
something like that. But anyway, they're there.
01:09:34.029 --> 01:09:37.670
But I just remember this was from, yeah, four
01:09:37.670 --> 01:09:41.050
or five years ago. And I don't even know if they're
01:09:41.050 --> 01:09:47.180
Canadian or not. The last person. Never seen
01:09:47.180 --> 01:09:49.420
that man in a day in my life. Yeah. Just watch
01:09:49.420 --> 01:09:52.460
out. I just, I put this up there as a warning
01:09:52.460 --> 01:09:56.520
really to people. If you see this guy, you know,
01:09:56.520 --> 01:10:00.529
watch out. No. Watch out. That's Eric Bailey.
01:10:01.649 --> 01:10:03.890
Eric's a very good friend. Who's in my living
01:10:03.890 --> 01:10:06.869
room right now. Yeah. It's probably listening.
01:10:08.510 --> 01:10:12.489
Am I being mentioned? No. I mean, last year,
01:10:12.590 --> 01:10:21.859
last, last year, that his, his talk was, I really
01:10:21.859 --> 01:10:24.899
enjoyed it. And I actually, I find it very hard
01:10:24.899 --> 01:10:28.710
to sit through a lot of the, the, Unless something
01:10:28.710 --> 01:10:32.630
really catches me. Like Adrian did a talk on
01:10:32.630 --> 01:10:36.289
tables and it's because somebody dropped out
01:10:36.289 --> 01:10:40.670
at the last moment and Adrian stepped in. Yeah,
01:10:40.710 --> 01:10:43.850
I couldn't, even though I love Adrian, I had
01:10:43.850 --> 01:10:46.489
to leave after about halfway through because
01:10:46.489 --> 01:10:49.930
I just get bored shitless with some things. But
01:10:49.930 --> 01:10:53.369
Eric's talk really, like, yeah, I enjoyed it.
01:10:53.409 --> 01:10:57.800
I mean, it wasn't just because he... had my name
01:10:57.800 --> 01:11:00.220
up there on one of the slides and you know access
01:11:00.220 --> 01:11:03.220
his political wasn't that i mean it's just his
01:11:03.220 --> 01:11:06.539
whole style and the substance style and substance
01:11:06.539 --> 01:11:09.699
were very impressive and i really enjoyed it
01:11:09.699 --> 01:11:12.739
yeah i mean i'm lucky i'm lucky enough that he
01:11:12.739 --> 01:11:17.229
like asked me for feedback i was so honored to
01:11:17.229 --> 01:11:20.869
be like you want my feedback um so i got to see
01:11:20.869 --> 01:11:23.010
early versions of it and i'm really proud of
01:11:23.010 --> 01:11:25.850
where like he had these ideas these concepts
01:11:25.850 --> 01:11:28.689
and then to where he ended i'm just like he's
01:11:28.689 --> 01:11:30.729
awesome it was his right his presenting style
01:11:30.729 --> 01:11:33.729
and my presenting style are like the sun and
01:11:33.729 --> 01:11:38.930
the moon yeah i present so like off the cuff
01:11:38.930 --> 01:11:42.090
chaotically and his are so well planned and well
01:11:42.090 --> 01:11:44.609
thought out and the timing like they're just
01:11:44.609 --> 01:11:47.880
so different than mine and like you know both
01:11:47.880 --> 01:11:50.279
are good but like his are just i'm so impressed
01:11:50.279 --> 01:11:53.380
with his ability to like script and sound natural
01:11:53.380 --> 01:11:56.020
and i'm just like and i just show up and i black
01:11:56.020 --> 01:12:02.279
out you know yeah i'm much the same and uh but
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:05.890
yeah i appreciate people who put you know It's
01:12:05.890 --> 01:12:08.149
obvious that they put their craft and skills
01:12:08.149 --> 01:12:13.729
into it. It's like one of the people that, well,
01:12:13.729 --> 01:12:15.550
I manage him, but he's also a friend. I used
01:12:15.550 --> 01:12:18.369
to work at TPG with him. This guy called Ian
01:12:18.369 --> 01:12:23.250
Lloyd, but everybody calls him Lloydy. He is
01:12:23.250 --> 01:12:28.449
talking at XSVTO this year. He is one of those
01:12:28.449 --> 01:12:33.149
sort of people that... you know puts a lot of
01:12:33.149 --> 01:12:35.970
effort into into making sure that he fits within
01:12:35.970 --> 01:12:38.250
the time scale you know and all these things
01:12:38.250 --> 01:12:42.909
and he rehearses and yeah which is the exact
01:12:42.909 --> 01:12:45.729
opposite well i just stumble on like you know
01:12:45.729 --> 01:12:50.310
i do put some time into into my my uh slides
01:12:50.310 --> 01:12:55.390
but i um usually you know like i have like similar
01:12:55.390 --> 01:12:58.729
to pat i always have too many slides and so i'm
01:12:58.729 --> 01:13:02.909
rushing just you know so yeah i know that but
01:13:02.909 --> 01:13:08.109
people like eric and and uh not eric the top
01:13:08.109 --> 01:13:11.029
erica i can't remember seeing him but eric bailey
01:13:11.029 --> 01:13:15.270
down the bottom people like him um yeah are real
01:13:15.270 --> 01:13:18.869
crafts people and professionals whereas yeah
01:13:18.869 --> 01:13:22.409
agreed agreed i am not yeah i'm impressed yeah
01:13:22.409 --> 01:13:25.310
i don't know where i land on that i mean i people
01:13:25.310 --> 01:13:28.960
pay me money to talk so i guess i'm doing something
01:13:28.960 --> 01:13:31.800
right but it's not to the quality of what eric
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:34.340
does and like what's so funny to me is he was
01:13:34.340 --> 01:13:36.199
like oh the conference is in like three months
01:13:36.199 --> 01:13:38.100
gotta get going on my presentation and i'm like
01:13:38.100 --> 01:13:41.729
yeah girl i write it the week of like i'm like
01:13:41.729 --> 01:13:44.289
but i'm always like i'm i'm always accruing data
01:13:44.289 --> 01:13:46.489
like that's how my brain works is like everything
01:13:46.489 --> 01:13:48.710
i see go oh that'll go in the talk okay so when
01:13:48.710 --> 01:13:50.729
i go to write it it's all like already in my
01:13:50.729 --> 01:13:54.890
noodle and to me slides are just a tool for storytelling
01:13:55.489 --> 01:14:00.189
for me um so i view them more as like a a concept
01:14:00.189 --> 01:14:03.010
of what i want to say is represented by the slide
01:14:03.010 --> 01:14:05.130
and i know kind of like what point i'm trying
01:14:05.130 --> 01:14:07.829
to make but for me i found that like scripting
01:14:07.829 --> 01:14:11.250
dulls the sparkle that is a chaotic show little
01:14:11.250 --> 01:14:14.170
talk so yeah i tried it and i was like i don't
01:14:14.170 --> 01:14:16.170
know but for him he's like yeah three months
01:14:16.170 --> 01:14:18.789
ahead and i'm like you're so diligent i just
01:14:18.789 --> 01:14:21.810
i'm like making slides on the plane ride you
01:14:21.810 --> 01:14:26.920
know yeah yeah i'm very those are the vibes yeah
01:14:26.920 --> 01:14:31.430
so but you know whatever way you can but i do
01:14:31.430 --> 01:14:34.189
think that's part of the reason why um that i
01:14:34.189 --> 01:14:40.109
i only ever get asked to to uh to talk once but
01:14:40.109 --> 01:14:43.090
uh but having said that you know so like years
01:14:43.090 --> 01:14:46.189
ago when people were desperate for access to
01:14:46.189 --> 01:14:48.010
be talks and there wasn't that many people around
01:14:48.010 --> 01:14:52.340
they would ask yeah um But to be honest with
01:14:52.340 --> 01:14:54.739
you, I don't particularly enjoy the presentation
01:14:54.739 --> 01:14:59.439
aspect of it. I just, it's just, you know. And
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:04.060
again, like what you said, if I don't, I only
01:15:04.060 --> 01:15:06.260
will speak if I have something to say. And quite
01:15:06.260 --> 01:15:09.460
often I don't have much to say. Or I'll be saying
01:15:09.460 --> 01:15:12.119
the same shit that I've said before. So I'd rather
01:15:12.119 --> 01:15:14.720
not, you know. I have a hard time with that one.
01:15:15.920 --> 01:15:18.819
I was known as like someone who gave a talk once
01:15:18.819 --> 01:15:20.779
and that's it. Like it was just like a serial
01:15:20.779 --> 01:15:24.319
talk builder essentially. And it was really hard
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:25.899
for me to like, I need to give this talk more
01:15:25.899 --> 01:15:29.079
than once. And I was like, what if people heard
01:15:29.079 --> 01:15:32.560
it already? And it's like, what if they see me
01:15:32.560 --> 01:15:34.479
wearing the same shirt two times? Like, it's
01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:36.680
like, that's the same concept of like, who cares?
01:15:36.739 --> 01:15:39.180
Like I had a really hard time with that. Like
01:15:39.180 --> 01:15:41.260
getting, giving the same talks, but eventually
01:15:41.260 --> 01:15:44.380
something I'd like to do is I want to rerecord
01:15:44.380 --> 01:15:47.300
all my talks. updated information because I've
01:15:47.300 --> 01:15:50.319
got I've got so I gave so many talks when I was
01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:54.859
like really into the speaking side of like you
01:15:54.859 --> 01:15:57.939
know public speaking I have a lot of talks that
01:15:57.939 --> 01:15:59.420
I'll never be able to show because they're under
01:15:59.420 --> 01:16:02.020
contract but I have a lot of like conference
01:16:02.020 --> 01:16:04.640
talks that I did and the funny thing to me is
01:16:04.640 --> 01:16:07.000
that like I like you know I'd have something
01:16:07.000 --> 01:16:09.079
to say a lot of times it's about cognitive that's
01:16:09.079 --> 01:16:11.140
my favorite space to speak in and like I'd be
01:16:11.140 --> 01:16:12.979
like hey here's a WCAG criterion that I think
01:16:13.460 --> 01:16:15.520
is awesome and let's talk about where it fails
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:18.899
and where it's good and bad um but now people
01:16:18.899 --> 01:16:21.220
only know me for my burnout talk and i'm like
01:16:21.220 --> 01:16:24.439
shit like i swear i gave a lot of technical talks
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:26.699
people like oh the burnout person i'm like oh
01:16:26.699 --> 01:16:33.039
man it's a topic that uh because that's not saying
01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:38.510
that that um uh eric's talk last year was was
01:16:38.510 --> 01:16:41.989
you know it touched on that topic and really
01:16:41.989 --> 01:16:46.979
i I didn't have the perspective because he talked
01:16:46.979 --> 01:16:50.180
about, you know, Henny has talked about something
01:16:50.180 --> 01:16:53.140
similar is that being the only accessibility
01:16:53.140 --> 01:16:56.439
person, you know, that's in the room. I've never
01:16:56.439 --> 01:16:59.359
been in that situation because I've always worked
01:16:59.359 --> 01:17:01.420
for an accessibility company. So I'm surrounded
01:17:01.420 --> 01:17:04.180
by people that, you know, are involved in accessibility
01:17:04.180 --> 01:17:07.779
and we deliver services, you know, to people
01:17:07.779 --> 01:17:14.149
too. So, but I never actually quite. got the
01:17:14.149 --> 01:17:17.789
the understanding uh but after listening to terry
01:17:17.789 --> 01:17:21.050
that it just really did crystallize in my head
01:17:21.050 --> 01:17:23.130
that you know there's lots of people who are
01:17:23.130 --> 01:17:26.470
the only person and that's why people burn out
01:17:26.470 --> 01:17:29.880
oh yeah yeah like i don't love this comparison
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:33.079
but i think it was john foliot once said to me
01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:37.819
that like in -house people are the police officers
01:17:37.819 --> 01:17:41.560
and house like consultants or firefighters as
01:17:41.560 --> 01:17:43.359
much as i don't like that it really sometimes
01:17:43.359 --> 01:17:45.520
it feels like you're the like you're the hall
01:17:45.520 --> 01:17:48.140
monitor and you're like you can't run well where's
01:17:48.140 --> 01:17:51.039
your hall pass versus like if you work for a
01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:52.600
consultant firm you're paid to be there because
01:17:52.600 --> 01:17:54.739
they want you there and it's just a very different
01:17:54.739 --> 01:17:57.119
vibe like i don't think i could ever it's hard
01:17:57.119 --> 01:17:59.840
because like i love design systems that was my
01:17:59.840 --> 01:18:02.539
thing i did i was the head of inclusive design
01:18:02.539 --> 01:18:05.159
at you know the design system that i worked for
01:18:05.159 --> 01:18:08.439
like that was my i love design systems but i
01:18:08.439 --> 01:18:10.100
don't ever i don't think i could ever go back
01:18:10.100 --> 01:18:13.420
to being the you can't do that kind of person
01:18:13.420 --> 01:18:16.039
like i need to be i i need the mental health
01:18:16.039 --> 01:18:18.619
break of being in the consultant spaces where
01:18:18.619 --> 01:18:20.239
like you're wanted they want you there you're
01:18:20.239 --> 01:18:22.159
yeah well i mean it makes a big difference because
01:18:22.159 --> 01:18:28.069
actually oh yeah yeah but also that i've i i
01:18:28.069 --> 01:18:31.810
i knew that that saying from john because folly
01:18:31.810 --> 01:18:34.619
it I never know how to say his name. I've known
01:18:34.619 --> 01:18:36.479
him for years and years and years. But anyway,
01:18:36.659 --> 01:18:42.060
he's a Canadian. Yes, he is. He's retired now.
01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.979
He's living up back in Canada, and I reached
01:18:45.979 --> 01:18:48.220
out to him, and hopefully he's going to come
01:18:48.220 --> 01:18:53.779
to XSVTO. So do you know of a guy? Well, no,
01:18:53.899 --> 01:18:57.739
because then I would. There's another guy called
01:18:57.739 --> 01:19:03.649
David McDonald, but he's a Canadian. but but
01:19:03.649 --> 01:19:07.710
now i got it no no he had this company he's got
01:19:07.710 --> 01:19:12.210
this company called can adapt oh i have seen
01:19:12.210 --> 01:19:14.569
some of their resources in the past yeah so but
01:19:14.569 --> 01:19:19.239
can but i i i knew that name for years but it
01:19:19.239 --> 01:19:23.239
just finally dawned that it's actually canada
01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:27.220
you know like i never i never realized but i
01:19:27.220 --> 01:19:30.619
know dave mcdonald from the w3c he hasn't been
01:19:30.619 --> 01:19:33.659
um involved much of late but he was he's been
01:19:33.659 --> 01:19:36.779
a pretty constant force there for for many a
01:19:36.779 --> 01:19:40.199
year but he's he's looking after personal stuff
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:43.460
at the moment but he did something called the
01:19:43.460 --> 01:19:47.899
wake up theme tune and was that back in the day
01:19:47.899 --> 01:19:51.460
it was a while ago yeah i heard that okay i went
01:19:51.460 --> 01:19:54.340
to school for user experience design and i focused
01:19:54.340 --> 01:19:56.380
on accessibility so i graduated with a degree
01:19:56.380 --> 01:19:58.340
and i went oh as i hit my mic i went straight
01:19:58.340 --> 01:20:03.140
into accessibility and my first job like my first
01:20:03.140 --> 01:20:05.359
like big job in accessibility was as a student
01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:08.520
i worked for the university in procurement so
01:20:08.520 --> 01:20:11.699
if like say the math department wanted to buy
01:20:11.699 --> 01:20:14.560
a software for checking out calculators we would
01:20:14.560 --> 01:20:16.739
check it for accessibility because it had to
01:20:16.739 --> 01:20:19.579
be accessible for student staff and faculty and
01:20:19.579 --> 01:20:25.380
uh so like i what i viscerally remember watching
01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:30.289
that song in university and being like holy shit
01:20:30.289 --> 01:20:34.369
like this is so funny and like it was just like
01:20:34.369 --> 01:20:37.649
really campy and i was like okay this these are
01:20:37.649 --> 01:20:39.090
the vibes that i'm like this is my field i'm
01:20:39.090 --> 01:20:41.550
going into this and then obviously like uh i
01:20:41.550 --> 01:20:44.130
i graduated from college and gerard car and cohen
01:20:44.130 --> 01:20:47.109
hired me like i think i graduated and he hired
01:20:47.109 --> 01:20:51.489
me as well fuck i sure do yeah yeah he hired
01:20:51.489 --> 01:20:53.770
me out he gave me my first like full gig so my
01:20:53.770 --> 01:20:57.270
first full -time job where was this when what
01:20:57.270 --> 01:21:01.310
where were you working at well sparkle ah Wells
01:21:01.310 --> 01:21:04.130
Fargo yes because I knew I was the head of accessibility
01:21:04.130 --> 01:21:07.510
or head of inclusive design of internal thing
01:21:07.510 --> 01:21:11.750
yeah yeah that's amazing I didn't realize that
01:21:11.750 --> 01:21:14.409
you were that you work it was sorry I don't know
01:21:14.409 --> 01:21:17.569
being yeah associated with them but yeah no that
01:21:17.569 --> 01:21:21.109
was my first gig I was there for like a while
01:21:21.109 --> 01:21:23.869
like a long while they were a client of TPG's
01:21:23.869 --> 01:21:26.789
for years I actually went to San Francisco and
01:21:26.789 --> 01:21:29.819
did some training for them once but i got to
01:21:29.819 --> 01:21:33.760
know um gerard uh and then another guy called
01:21:33.760 --> 01:21:39.739
keith or something kalahiki so on kevin kalahiki
01:21:39.739 --> 01:21:43.279
yes him yeah so he he came back actually so he
01:21:43.279 --> 01:21:45.739
left but then came back after gerard left for
01:21:45.739 --> 01:21:48.439
twitter kevin came back and uh i think we quit
01:21:48.439 --> 01:21:51.560
the same day so good right because i haven't
01:21:51.560 --> 01:21:55.880
seen something popped up yeah he's a great guy
01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:58.119
i i really enjoyed working with kevin it was
01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:00.119
rough because like he was trying to come in as
01:22:00.119 --> 01:22:02.380
a manager but i had been in the manager position
01:22:02.380 --> 01:22:05.199
and trying to like give him all the info he needed
01:22:05.199 --> 01:22:07.659
it was just like a rough poor kevin but great
01:22:07.659 --> 01:22:10.020
guy super great guy yeah he said he always like
01:22:10.020 --> 01:22:12.899
he always struck me as and and and then yeah
01:22:12.899 --> 01:22:16.779
i met up with gerard several times and he was
01:22:16.779 --> 01:22:21.340
like really like he was really uh uh saying nice
01:22:21.340 --> 01:22:24.880
things about me as you know my work and And we've
01:22:24.880 --> 01:22:27.539
become firm friends over the years. And every
01:22:27.539 --> 01:22:30.220
time we have an opportunity, we get together
01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:32.520
and have a drink, which has usually been CSUN.
01:22:32.899 --> 01:22:37.399
But hopefully he'll come up to AccessoryTO as
01:22:37.399 --> 01:22:40.079
well. Yeah, he was trying to get me to go and
01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:42.140
I feel bad. I'm not going because I just like,
01:22:42.159 --> 01:22:44.020
they got rid of their game accessibility stuff.
01:22:44.119 --> 01:22:45.859
I wish they'd bring it back. I know it's like
01:22:45.859 --> 01:22:48.319
harder. it's a big conference right it's hard
01:22:48.319 --> 01:22:50.739
to run a bunch of stuff but like i loved yeah
01:22:50.739 --> 01:22:53.180
there was more than one major accessibility conference
01:22:53.180 --> 01:22:54.800
that talked about accessibility or sorry that
01:22:54.800 --> 01:22:57.460
game accessibility i was super excited but but
01:22:57.460 --> 01:23:00.060
yeah gerard worked very close i i really love
01:23:00.060 --> 01:23:02.899
that guy so do you know somebody called claudia
01:23:02.899 --> 01:23:06.409
case as well uh claudia retired before i got
01:23:06.409 --> 01:23:09.149
hired so claudia left gerard and then i was first
01:23:09.149 --> 01:23:13.000
hire into the team so gotcha it was good and
01:23:13.000 --> 01:23:14.680
when it wasn't good you know it was good until
01:23:14.680 --> 01:23:18.039
it wasn't but yeah we had it was a very it was
01:23:18.039 --> 01:23:21.010
a good job like i i liked I was able to, I basically
01:23:21.010 --> 01:23:23.329
started, you know, I was like an associate, you
01:23:23.329 --> 01:23:24.970
know, like I was like an accessibility associate.
01:23:25.210 --> 01:23:27.510
And then they were like, hey, you're now the
01:23:27.510 --> 01:23:29.229
head of accessibility mobile. And I was like,
01:23:29.270 --> 01:23:30.949
okay, I run the mobile department. And then it
01:23:30.949 --> 01:23:33.130
was like, okay, and now, and I got to really
01:23:33.130 --> 01:23:36.289
climb up and do a lot of stuff. And it was great.
01:23:36.350 --> 01:23:38.630
It was just like, I didn't know that I was autistic.
01:23:38.789 --> 01:23:40.729
I didn't know how to accommodate myself. I didn't
01:23:40.729 --> 01:23:42.550
understand boundaries. I was fresh out of college.
01:23:42.649 --> 01:23:45.090
So like, I didn't know what was appropriate and
01:23:45.090 --> 01:23:47.390
not appropriate to be asked. And like, you know,
01:23:47.409 --> 01:23:49.699
if they, if. it'll take take take as much as
01:23:49.699 --> 01:23:52.539
they can so but yeah i loved my job like i i
01:23:52.539 --> 01:23:56.699
had so much control over the design systems like
01:23:56.699 --> 01:23:58.819
literally what was made and what wasn't made
01:23:58.819 --> 01:24:01.319
i had the final go no go for accessibility on
01:24:01.319 --> 01:24:03.939
the design system so it was awesome i mean you
01:24:03.939 --> 01:24:05.819
were lucky enough by the center to work with
01:24:05.819 --> 01:24:07.899
some really nice people and that always helps
01:24:07.899 --> 01:24:13.920
well um seriously much as i've i've enjoyed our
01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:18.039
conversation um it's time yeah it's it's it's
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:20.760
like Yeah, it's after six. I don't know exactly
01:24:20.760 --> 01:24:24.119
what time it is, but I'll stop that share because
01:24:24.119 --> 01:24:29.039
we've got through that. We've been talking for
01:24:29.039 --> 01:24:33.380
an hour and over an hour and a half, and it has
01:24:33.380 --> 01:24:36.039
been great talking to you, and sorry that I've
01:24:36.039 --> 01:24:40.859
been blathering on. You're fine. You're fine.
01:24:41.020 --> 01:24:43.840
I just can't shut up at the moment. I've just
01:24:43.840 --> 01:24:47.350
got so much energy. That's awesome. What a great
01:24:47.350 --> 01:24:51.550
problem to have. Well, it is. But I suddenly
01:24:51.550 --> 01:24:57.510
think, well, I've got less years to go because
01:24:57.510 --> 01:25:00.510
we all die at some point. And just having the
01:25:00.510 --> 01:25:03.850
experience of seeing my brother, it was like
01:25:03.850 --> 01:25:06.970
looking at myself in some way. But he was a drunkard,
01:25:06.970 --> 01:25:10.310
unfortunately. I'm not. But people might think,
01:25:10.329 --> 01:25:11.689
well, it's just like I thought you were from
01:25:11.689 --> 01:25:18.569
Canada. In the past, when I go to conferences
01:25:18.569 --> 01:25:21.960
and things, I tend to... Because I did drink
01:25:21.960 --> 01:25:25.119
when I was younger, but I don't... I haven't
01:25:25.119 --> 01:25:27.359
had a drink for six months. I don't tend to drink
01:25:27.359 --> 01:25:30.819
at home, but I do. For the record, I never thought
01:25:30.819 --> 01:25:33.800
you were a drunkard. Oh, that's okay. I never
01:25:33.800 --> 01:25:37.979
thought that. I think I self -medicate with anything
01:25:37.979 --> 01:25:42.449
I can. Conferences are so overstimulating. I
01:25:42.449 --> 01:25:44.270
found myself, like, even before I knew I was
01:25:44.270 --> 01:25:45.989
autistic, like, you'd see me, I would wear headphones
01:25:45.989 --> 01:25:48.329
around, and I was like, this is so normal, and
01:25:48.329 --> 01:25:50.869
what people totally do, because I was overstimulated,
01:25:50.970 --> 01:25:52.649
like, yeah, they're tough, like, conferences
01:25:52.649 --> 01:25:54.909
are tough, but I, like, I love the social aspect,
01:25:55.090 --> 01:25:58.430
I love seeing people, like, I went to CSUN, I
01:25:58.430 --> 01:26:00.409
went to CSUN once, and I, like, I just love the
01:26:00.409 --> 01:26:03.149
social aspect, but yeah, I'm like you, I can't,
01:26:03.149 --> 01:26:05.819
I can't. I can't focus on conference presentations
01:26:05.819 --> 01:26:09.300
unless it's like a friend presenting. I rarely,
01:26:09.520 --> 01:26:13.020
I rarely go to anything. I think the, the, the
01:26:13.020 --> 01:26:15.720
last time I went to Billy was, was presenting
01:26:15.720 --> 01:26:20.020
and I went to that. And I think the swallow and,
01:26:20.060 --> 01:26:22.960
and Lloydy and, you know, people that I know
01:26:22.960 --> 01:26:26.539
I will support them, but I'll be there even if
01:26:26.539 --> 01:26:29.079
I'm not enjoying it, but you know, but yeah.
01:26:29.949 --> 01:26:33.630
That's a good point. It's not the reason why
01:26:33.630 --> 01:26:37.670
I go to a dinner's ready. I just got the message
01:26:37.670 --> 01:26:42.859
dinner's ready. Great to talk to you. You as
01:26:42.859 --> 01:26:48.100
well. Hopefully I'll see you again soon. It's
01:26:48.100 --> 01:26:51.319
not quite the start of the month yet, but give
01:26:51.319 --> 01:26:54.439
Eric an early pinch and punch for the first day
01:26:54.439 --> 01:27:00.069
of the month for me. Sure. Sounds great. An exciting
01:27:00.069 --> 01:27:02.149
thing. It was his birthday on Friday. I'll give
01:27:02.149 --> 01:27:04.489
him a birthday punch for you. Yeah, it's his
01:27:04.489 --> 01:27:08.529
birthday weekend. Ah, you see, I'm not that close
01:27:08.529 --> 01:27:13.050
enough to actually tell me that. But he has been
01:27:13.050 --> 01:27:19.779
working closely with two of the people I manage
01:27:19.779 --> 01:27:26.699
at Tetralogical. So I get to hear about what's
01:27:26.699 --> 01:27:30.159
happening with Eric all the time. I love that.
01:27:30.479 --> 01:27:33.939
Yeah. I don't want to hear about this guy. He's
01:27:33.939 --> 01:27:37.020
too good. He's young, he's handsome, he's intelligent.
01:27:37.319 --> 01:27:40.060
He's all the things I would, you know, never
01:27:40.060 --> 01:27:43.619
was and wanted to be. Yeah, fuck that guy. Yeah,
01:27:43.640 --> 01:27:47.520
exactly. It's lucky he's not in the room with
01:27:47.520 --> 01:27:52.359
me now because I would... No. I'd give him a
01:27:52.359 --> 01:27:56.199
big hug and a kiss. Just as I would you, Cheryl.
01:27:57.159 --> 01:27:59.680
thank you great that was lovely thanks so much
01:27:59.680 --> 01:28:02.279
for inviting me on it was lovely to yap and i
01:28:02.279 --> 01:28:04.260
hope you have a great rest of your night i will
01:28:04.260 --> 01:28:08.680
remember to look at the uh at the you know what
01:28:08.680 --> 01:28:12.260
what uh special gift what memento that will always
01:28:12.260 --> 01:28:15.340
remind you of this i just need give me the email
01:28:15.340 --> 01:28:18.500
me i will i'll send you what yeah i'll send it
01:28:18.500 --> 01:28:24.539
all to you uh and uh yeah see you soon yeah thanks
01:28:24.539 --> 01:28:25.640
see you bye bye