How Representative is Representative Enough? Transfer of Training and the Ecological Approach

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Welcome back to Finding the Edge
podcast.
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I'm Garrett Poem joined with
Kyle Dupic.
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Something to discuss today, just
given all the different
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conversations we've been having.
I think a lot of it all comes
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back to, all right, transfer of
training, the basic principles
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of transfer of training, because
all the questions revolve around
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practice.
What are we doing in practice?
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What about this thing?
What about that thing, and
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should we do it?
How should we modify it or what
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should we be doing?
And to me, it all comes back to
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the principles of transfer of
training and then and or
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flipping it back to
understanding the performance
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environment and even to building
off of something that Sean
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Mishka really talks a lot about
is putting yourself in the shoes
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of the athlete.
And and so to me, the only way
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to really be able to in in some
ways put yourself in the shoes
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of the athlete in some ways is
also to have been there
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yourself.
And yes, if an athlete can tell
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you, you can do the best you can
of like imagining yourself in
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those situations.
But by and large, for the most
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part, even for myself, I, I feel
like the more that I have
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stepped into the, the been a
part of the practice task.
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Meaning, for example, often
Times Now I'm I'm ABP thrower
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And so and, and also having been
a player that's really, really
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struggled and been awful and
terrible.
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Having to figure out how to
overcome those things helps me
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put myself in the athletes
shoes, both when both from the
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times where I've had success
myself and then also when I have
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struggled and failed.
And so having both of those
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experiences has given me insight
into being able to think about,
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OK, what is going on in the
performance environment.
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And then how can how can I help
that athlete?
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And partially because of like
what's helped me.
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And so as someone who has been
diving into ecological dynamics,
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for me personally, I felt like
it's really helped explain
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things and then helped me hone
in on what is important and
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gives me a fuller picture of
like how everything kind of fits
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together.
Yeah, we've been talking about
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some of the basics of
ecodynamics.
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And as somebody who's really
only been engaging deeply with
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this content for now year and a
half, one of the things that
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became that I became aware of or
I noticed was how it not that
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they're different things, but
that this idea of, you know, in
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light of transfer of training,
some people seem to be running
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at the CLA, the constraint LED
approach side of it using
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constraints, you know, physical
and rules and whatnot,
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environments, etcetera.
And then other people were
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running hard after
representative learning design
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and and still others are mixing
those.
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But it definitely seemed like
those were spoken about as not 2
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separate things that couldn't
mix, but definitely 2 separate
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things at times two different.
Like you could make something
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more representative and not
necessarily be working as hard
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to manipulate constraints and
vice versa.
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It could, it could not be
representative at all, but
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you're really manipulating
constraints to try to help them
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explore the solution space.
So I'd be interested in transfer
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of training.
Maybe The thing is to zoom in on
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either one of those for a
minute, kind of define what the
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difference between those two
things are, how they're nested
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within an ecological worldview,
and then talk about why or how
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are some examples of how those
things might help with transfer
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of training.
Yeah.
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And I think this goes back to
one of our other conversations
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of the practice environment in
the context often times is quite
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different from the actual game
environment.
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And one thing that ecological
dynamics kind of begins to talk
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about is the fact of the
sensitivity that the system has
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or rather the way a system
behaves is based upon the
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constraints that are placed upon
it.
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And so because the constraints,
basically the, the environment
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and the constraints that are
within the practice environment
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are different from that of the
performance environment.
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You may not see the things that
you, the behavior, the
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movements, the actions,
etcetera, that you see in
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practice may not show up in the
game.
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And vice versa, what you see in
the game may not show up in
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practice.
And so we've all experienced
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this where where a guy, you
know, does really, really well
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in practice, then you put him in
the game and he really
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struggles.
You also see that same player
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who does really well in the game
struggle and practice.
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And so this to me, like
ecological dynamics explains why
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that is that we see these things
in our minds as coaches.
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We want to reward the the, the
good, the hard work.
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You know, we want, we want to
reward the buy in that players
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have in the practice setting.
And we and we hope that that
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sets them up for success.
But sometimes I remind myself of
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like, like, OK, it's not so much
about the always to be the
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mechanical behavior, you know,
in terms of the movements all
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the time or even the fact of
like, OK, I know for example, my
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for for hitters, the machine
setup that I have is way way.
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It's, it's, it's leaving a lot
to be desired as far as, OK, I
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got multiple machines here.
They're not necessarily set up
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at the right angles.
They're not set up at the right
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heights.
The velocity is not right, the
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movement isn't right.
The sequence, all this sort of
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stuff is just not right.
But at the end of the day, for
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me, it's actually more about, or
rather in our previous
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discussion, it was asking the
question of like, OK, what
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transcends these practice
environments into the game?
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You know, what is this thing
that becomes the bridge or the
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through line that helps us
transcend the the fact that
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things are different, you know,
the practice environment to the
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game environment, vice versa.
And so for me, it comes back to
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this whole notion of problem
solving.
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If, if skill is a search and a
search to converge onto a
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functional solution, the, the
athletes that are better at
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adapting and searching and
honing in on a solution are
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going to have success in my
mind, or going to be able to, to
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be more adaptable and all that
sort of stuff.
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And so for me, it's actually
trying to figure out what are
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these things that kind of
transcend it.
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And so a lot of it goes back to
in some ways it actually you're,
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you're starting to even again,
look at the more intangible
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things, the things that are a
little bit harder to measure
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because these to me are the
things that transcend in a way.
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So for example, in one of our
other episodes, we talked about
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intention and the role of
intention and the importance of
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intention.
So to me, intent is something
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that transcends or that you can
take from the practice
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environment to the game
environment.
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So to me, like it's it's the in
some ways the mental side are
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some of the things that you can
you can actually port over from
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one spot to the next.
And really what you're trying to
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do in my mind of like, OK,
because even though the
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representativeness is never
going to be scaled at 100,
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because even if you were inner
squad and you're scrimmaging,
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that's still not the same as a
game when you're playing against
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an outside opponent with an
umpire, you know, like that,
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that changes the whole dynamic.
It's not the same as
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scrimmaging.
And so again, and it's not the
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same as having fans.
It's not the same as, you know,
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playoffs.
It's not the all these sort of
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things, right?
So because of that, really what
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you're trying to do within
practice is create these
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different.
You're trying to, in my mind,
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you're trying to have them go
through different experience,
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different things where they're
going through these different
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processes, where they're honing
their process of converging on
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solutions and finding success.
And sometimes that does look
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like what we've talked about in
the past of exploration.
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You're exploring, you're trying
to learn how to gather
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information, how to become
sensitive to that information,
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and then how to take that
information and exploit it and,
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or find ways to couple your
movement to it to have
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functional outcomes.
And so for me, that's, that's
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initially kind of how I'm, I'm
thinking about it as far as
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like, you know, how am I
transcending the fact that even
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if my, my best representative
practice environment may still
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be not enough.
So what are the things that
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transcend?
And so the thing that I'm going
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to kind of try to land the plane
on is This is why I think as
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frustrating as it is to me in
some ways, but it's humbling in
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a good way of like, I've
actually learned more from the
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people that I think are wrong
often times than the people that
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I agree with.
And here's where I'm going with
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this, because I think the thing
that transcends often times is
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culture, right?
Teams with good culture often
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times outperform those who are
doing all the technical things
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correctly.
Now, a good a good a team with
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good culture also does the
technical things well, but they
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may not do it as well as another
team that really heavily focuses
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on it.
And and the reason why I think
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the culture team wins is going
back to kind of loop this in of
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like they're the their thing
actually transcends their
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practice environment.
It it can transfer over to the
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game environment.
And so that that's at least my
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thought process of like where
things start to like the old
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school, you could say the softer
skills really in my mind are the
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separators when it comes to the
execution of these things.
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I think it's important to point
out that, you know, sometimes it
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feels like if you're just
stepping into this world, that
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this idea of making things more
representative, One side of the
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coin that I've seen is it's
always better to turn up the
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representative scale.
It's always better for it to
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look, feel and act more like the
game.
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And I think in general that's
true, but not always.
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And I think we one example that
pops for me right away was when
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I was a school teacher and had a
young man who played basketball
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on the weekends for AAU
tournament.
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He'd always want to come back
and tell me how he did.
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And so he'd tell me all the
points he scored and all the
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things he did, and I'd always
ask him the same question.
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I go, did you ever like finish
on the left side with your left
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hand and you go, no, like, why
does that matter?
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And, and like, I was trying to
guide him a little bit to be
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like, because when you go play
in these environments where the
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performance is really important
for him, he's playing really
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good competition.
He's going to go back to the
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things that work for him, the
attractor states, the things
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that he's comfortable with that
he's done over and over that he
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will find success with.
He won't try to use his left
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hand, his weak hand, his offhand
to become a more well-rounded
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player.
And, and I think that's the
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purpose at, you know, like can
we create environments that help
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the athlete explore different
things, build and an abundance
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of, of movement solutions
regardless of their sport?
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And while we're doing that, can
we turn the representativeness
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up a bit, recognizing that maybe
we as coaches don't always have
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perfect control over that, as
you just identified.
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So I just want to at least put
that in there quick to say if
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you heard what Garrett just said
and you said, oh, so it has to
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has to be just like the game all
the time.
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No, it's just we're probably
pushing back more on the more
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drill based like that doesn't
look like the game at all.
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And so can we turn that up and
make it look a little different.
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A lot of times we have to take
them out of the game in order to
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immerse them in an environment
where they're going to work on
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the things that they are
struggling with.
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That's exactly what's happening,
I think with where actually
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representative learning design
and the constraint LED approach
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sort of coalesce is.
I'm trying to put constraints on
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my players based off the things
that they need to work on while
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keeping the environment as
similar as I possibly can to the
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game so I'll have better
transfer training.
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Yeah.
And I think there's a couple of
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things.
One, I think we we'll see.
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I'm sorry to lose my trying to
do 2 things at once.
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One, I think we should probably
go over and cover like what are
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the what are the principles for
representative practice design
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or learning design?
These like there's two, there's
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two main things that that that
play into representative
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learning design.
One is functionality and that's
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the the degree to which the same
specifying information is
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available as it would be in
competition.
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And then two, action fidelity,
the degree to which practice
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movements are similar to the
movements performed in
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competition or in the game.
And what's really interesting to
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me on that last point
specifically is if you go and
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look, I remember when ZAP first
came out and they had all these
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pro hitters that they had used
for their models and all this
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sort of stuff.
And you go and you watch any pro
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guy, not any, but like the
majority of pro guys must use
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Mike Trout as an example.
The way he swings in BP is not
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at all what what his swing looks
like in a game.
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And I think for me, that's a
really interesting thing because
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then you're like, OK, So what is
transferring there?
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Yeah, OK.
Some of it might be feels this
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and that or whatever.
But like, even I saw today on
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Twitter, Glass now talking
about, you know, being back and
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and pitching again.
And he was talking about, you
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know, yeah, maybe I'll focus on
mechanics and practice and might
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be butchering this.
But his main thing was like,
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once I get to the game, I'm not
thinking about any of that.
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I'm just trying to be as
athletic as I can be.
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And so to me, that then says
because most of these guys,
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right, when they're playing
their best, they're not really
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up there thinking too much.
They might have some specific
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intentions that they are they're
focused on.
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You know, with Mike Trout, I
heard that for him, his approach
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was basically if the ball's
away, I'm going to hit a line
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drive over the second baseman's
head and if it's in, I'm going
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to hit a line drive over the
shortstop set.
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You know, I've also heard that
he's there, the trash can out in
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left center.
Like he aims for that, right?
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00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,920
So like his, his thoughts or
intentions are pretty minimal.
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He's not sitting there thinking
about mechanics.
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And so that's where to me it
becomes like, OK, how much are
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00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,560
these fields and these different
things that we're doing in
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practice?
How much do they actually
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matter?
Like how much is it actually
263
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,320
transferring?
Because if you go back to the,
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the, the, the 8020 rule, OK, 20%
of what you do derives 80% of
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00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,720
the results that you get and
then 80% of what you do gets you
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the last 20.
So that makes me wonder how like
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really it's a small, it's a
small set of things that are
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actually getting you most of the
results.
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00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,520
It's probably the things that
look and feel a lot more like
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the game rather than that those
things that don't.
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00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,720
And so that just says to me of
like, OK, why is it that a guy
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looks great, like we talked
about before in practice in BP
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and he gets in the game and that
doesn't show up, right?
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Those movements, those moves
don't show up in the game.
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OK, So this this to me comes
back to all right, maybe maybe
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the specifying information going
back to functionality, maybe the
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00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,720
specifying information was not
their present, enabling them to
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00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:45,440
couple their movement to 1A to
pick up and then two or B, then
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00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,680
they can't use that to shape
their movement.
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00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,520
So now you're missing those
things and that's why the
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00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,760
movement doesn't look the same.
And so to me, this is where we
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00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,920
have to start to think about our
practice when we're doing our
283
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practice design and we're
actually implementing our
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practices.
I mean, these are some like, I
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00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,280
know I'm saying something that
like all good coaches are like,
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00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,800
well, duh, I want this to look
like the game, like you need to
287
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,240
take it serious.
Just walk through, you know,
288
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,080
what the the reps and all that
sort of stuff.
289
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,920
And that's, that's where to me,
like we need to reiterate that
290
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,080
more and more of like, OK, so
then maybe though, if, if the
291
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,840
athlete isn't moving in a way
that looks game like, then maybe
292
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,920
we need to tweak our practice
design.
293
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,080
We need to tweak our practice
activity.
294
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,400
We make some changes, do some
constraint manipulation to start
295
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:42,280
to trying to search and defined
the right constraints or the
296
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:49,680
right setup within our in our
practice activity so that it is
297
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,480
so that the the athletes
movements start to look and more
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00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,120
like the game.
So for me, that's that's one of
299
00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,800
the things that I'm always
keeping in the back of my mind
300
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:05,800
is like, OK, what is what's
going on there?
301
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,280
Now the second point, I want to
kind of now that we've kind of
302
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,240
established that I think that's
non controversial and I'm going
303
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,160
to sort of I think we need
everything is about knowing
304
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,880
where it lives and breathes,
right?
305
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,200
It's it's about where does all
this fit?
306
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,840
When do we use it and what
situations and all that sort of
307
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,880
stuff.
So I want to now throw something
308
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,440
else in there in here to
moderate this because if we're
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00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,760
always at really high
representativeness, maybe our
310
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:40,600
exploration, we're not able to
explore as much things are too
311
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,560
rigid, right?
You start looking at something
312
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,280
like banana ball, right?
All of a sudden now there's,
313
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,000
there's a lot more exploration
that's going on now.
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00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,960
A lot of that stuff may not come
back, but this gets into going
315
00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:03,200
back to all right, trying to
build, what is it abundance?
316
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:04,680
What is the term that you used
before?
317
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,000
Like building a big bigger
toolbox, right?
318
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,360
So I'm, I want to build a bigger
toolbox.
319
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:12,520
I want to have more movement
options, more ways of moving,
320
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,320
all that sort of stuff.
Then maybe we need to actually
321
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,080
open it up, loosen things a
little bit, make him less
322
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,120
representative so that we can do
more exploration so that we
323
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,400
become more sensitive to to the
information in the environment.
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00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,800
In our other, in a, in another
podcast that we, we did around
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00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:35,080
John Verbaki and, and he was
talking about machine learning
326
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:39,200
and neural networks and how a
lot of models will will overfit
327
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,040
to the data and you need to
introduce some noise so that you
328
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:47,640
don't overfit to, to the data
and you can actually drive
329
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,800
proper insights.
The same thing is true here when
330
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,880
it comes to practice.
If we're always doing the same,
331
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,880
same things over and over again,
we fall into different sort of
332
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,560
attractor states, patterns,
natural patterns, and we start,
333
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,520
we stop exploring.
And so to me, this is where at
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00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,840
times we actually need to maybe
switch some things up.
335
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,160
So those are kind of my, my
initial thoughts on, you know,
336
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,920
when we're talking about
transfer of training,
337
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,880
representative practice design
and then also exploration,
338
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,560
'cause these to me these are
like the three pillars of like
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00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:32,560
player development.
I have heard the, you know, the
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00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,600
phrase slices of the game was
something that the folks over
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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,920
emergency use a lot.
And I think that it's easy to
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00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:47,680
the miss that a slice of the
game is not a slice of the game,
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00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,600
so to speak, if it doesn't have
some of the things that you're
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00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,560
talking about there, the
functionality and the action
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00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:00,920
fidelity.
So keeping it on my phase of the
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00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:05,920
game that the pitchers, just
because I'm doing a three to 1
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00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,280
and everybody's taking a Rep,
that's not a slice of the game.
348
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,240
They know what's going to
happen.
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00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,120
They're not making a pitch.
There is no goal, there is no
350
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,480
connecting to any information
that would cause me to have to
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00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:23,400
execute a pitch then get over.
That's not a slice of the game
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00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,120
in the way that they're talking
about you're.
353
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,240
Talking about a PFPA three to 1
is.
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00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,080
Yeah, a traditional pitcher's
fielding practice kind of just
355
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,040
doing the same thing over and
over.
356
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:37,160
It might look like a piece of
the game, right?
357
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,480
It might look like something
that happens, but it's
358
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,640
completely decontextualized from
how that thing actually emerges.
359
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,200
And so the question becomes,
well, we need to work on that
360
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:49,800
and it doesn't happen very
often.
361
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:54,520
So how do we do that?
And so for me, like part of that
362
00:22:54,520 --> 00:23:00,120
is if if I don't have a catcher,
I don't have a good situation to
363
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,880
have the the pitcher throw a
baseball.
364
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:07,040
That would be my first choice is
that we would still have some
365
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,680
sort of goal consequence point
system where they still have a
366
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,920
goal of they just throwing a
strike.
367
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,160
Maybe I don't have a batter and
I need to control more.
368
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,200
I need to get more reps, you
know, because we know that like
369
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,320
obviously that helps.
Obviously seeing that thing more
370
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,760
and more and experiencing it
more and more is going to help.
371
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,240
So let's just say I don't have
that.
372
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,160
I don't have a catcher and I
can't connect it.
373
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,040
That is a piece that's
important.
374
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,000
Well then at the very least I'm
going to do something like not
375
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,920
let them know exactly what's
happening, right?
376
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,600
Like maybe I would hit it over
there or maybe I would squirt a
377
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:46,960
bunt, or maybe I'll just hit the
ball to a totally different
378
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,880
place.
Like they wouldn't necessarily
379
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,520
know what's coming.
Maybe I would put base runners
380
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,040
on at different places and have
the balls hit to different
381
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,240
places.
Is that perfect, perfectly
382
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:58,800
representative?
Of course not.
383
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,280
But I think it starts to get
towards what we're talking
384
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,360
about, that the slice of the
game is trying to turn up the
385
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:10,640
representativeness so that there
is at least some specifying
386
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,440
information that is similar to
the game and that it is looking
387
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,640
similar to game movements.
So often what we see is a fake
388
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,240
pitch and then just jogging over
and and it's not the same.
389
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,520
And so I think that that's also
a piece that probably needs to
390
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,640
be highlighted, is that a slice
of the game is going to have
391
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,080
exactly what you talked about.
It's going to have, you know,
392
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,640
functionality and action
fidelity in those two different
393
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:38,320
areas.
One of the other things too that
394
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,400
I was kind of thinking about
when I was trying to look up
395
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:47,480
here is there we also I think
when it comes to the practice
396
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,080
design itself, I think because
we're all limited by time,
397
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,760
right?
And so it's like a question of
398
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,760
like, because I was thinking
about this today, right?
399
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,320
The first time we run through
something and rather, OK, I'm
400
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:06,120
going to back this up.
We myself and Baker take a lot
401
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,640
of inspiration and even Sean and
others take a lot of inspiration
402
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:16,080
from parkour and, and, you know,
capoeira and all these other
403
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:23,160
sort of movement disciplines.
And with them, like there's,
404
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,880
there's a level of man, I'm
losing my, my mind here.
405
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,200
My apologies.
I don't remember where I was
406
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:34,000
going with this.
Did have to do with like, oh
407
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,360
man, it's a good thing that we
might not be releasing this one.
408
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,560
You'll just have to chop it up
like crazy.
409
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:47,120
Yeah, I suppose.
Oh, OK.
410
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:57,320
So when it comes to to like
other other movement practices
411
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:03,800
such as parkour and capoeira and
these other things that both
412
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,640
Baker and I have drawn
inspiration from, what you learn
413
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:11,120
when you are trying to begin to
learn new movements, you're
414
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,520
starting to you're starting to
try to interact with your
415
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,440
environment.
You don't start going full bore,
416
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,240
right?
You will do a couple of like
417
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,840
slower speeds, run UPS, just
kind of feel it out and that
418
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,960
sort of thing.
So to me that's like your base
419
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,560
level, it's a little bit of
exploration.
420
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:32,320
It's, it's a lot slower, it's a
lot more, it's a lot less
421
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,760
variable, although that you can
try it in a few different ways,
422
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,240
all that sort of stuff.
And I was thinking about it
423
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,600
today as we're doing some of
our, our defensive work and
424
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,080
we're, we're implementing
different plays.
425
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:49,800
It's like, OK, it's sometimes
nice to actually walk through
426
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,520
something first rather than just
do the whole thing, have it be
427
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,480
live and trying to figure it out
because there's just so much
428
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,280
information.
You have no idea where to
429
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,240
attend, where to go, any of that
sort of thing.
430
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,440
And so it, it kind of comes back
to you need this initial
431
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,880
constraint of an example and
that starts to guide your
432
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,520
movement, guide your actions.
And then from there you can
433
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,440
start to explore off of that.
And so to me, like there's this
434
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,200
progression that goes on in, in
terms of practice of like, OK,
435
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,880
where, where are we and what do
we want to, how we want to start
436
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:27,120
interacting with things?
Because I think eco D has in
437
00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,040
some ways, rightly, because this
has been the predominant way of
438
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,480
doing things and to try to break
people out of this of like just
439
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,080
this mass, I think it's mass
practice.
440
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,840
What's a just constant practice,
right?
441
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,800
Of like doing the same thing
over and over and over again
442
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,720
with this idea of drilling it
when you, when you start to
443
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,200
think about it, Well, one, the
research shows that the
444
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,640
stickiness of doing things over
and over and over and over and
445
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,160
over again, it's basically, I
mean, we've all experienced
446
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:57,640
this, that what you're doing is
cramming.
447
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,480
So how much of all of the tests
that you've crammed for, how
448
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,280
much information do you remember
after the test?
449
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,640
Like not very much, right?
And So what they find is that if
450
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,640
you want learning that's going
to stick around for longer and
451
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,240
to transfer and across different
situations and experiences,
452
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,120
etcetera, that you actually want
to space things out, you want to
453
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:24,800
allow some level of forgetting
to occur.
454
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:30,080
And so I think we have to part
of like this idea and this
455
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,600
notion of like creating some
variability allows for some
456
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,560
forgetting.
And I think that element needs
457
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,680
to get played in.
But at the same point where I've
458
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,480
come to with this whole notion
of, OK, every Rep needs to be
459
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,160
different.
I think there's, there's a flaw
460
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,440
in that.
There's a flaw in that thinking.
461
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,560
Not because, because I don't
think we, we, we quite always
462
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,360
those of us who are in the
ecological world and, and all
463
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,000
the sort of, oh, what's the
word?
464
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,160
I'm looking for all the rhetoric
that's out there.
465
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,560
I, I, I, I think rather we don't
appreciate that eco deep
466
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,320
principles are always present
all the time.
467
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,760
They're always acting and the,
the whole notion of Rep without
468
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:27,880
Rep is true even when you are
doing the same thing or even
469
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,440
when you're doing constant
practice doing the same, like
470
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,080
you're drilling the same thing
over and over and over again.
471
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,360
Self organization is still
present, it's still active, it's
472
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,760
still working.
And Rep without Rep is still
473
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,760
happening.
It's still active and it's still
474
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,960
working.
So, and, and so to me, it's like
475
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,600
actually, if we don't rather it
gives us an opportunity.
476
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,000
Cause when we go back to what
we've talked about before of the
477
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,000
importance of intention, right?
What's our intention when it
478
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,480
comes to doing these different
types of activities?
479
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,280
Whether it's constant practice
of like, I'm just trying to feel
480
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,640
the straight up ground ball over
and over again.
481
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,680
I'm trying to throw my fastball,
whatever middle, etcetera, or
482
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,960
I'm just trying to throw, let me
throw 5 fastballs here.
483
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:19,280
I think you can still apply
ecological principles in
484
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,320
constant practice.
And I actually think there's
485
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:26,400
value to it of doing that.
And so that's actually where my
486
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,880
mind is kind of changed a little
bit and where I kind of wanted
487
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,520
to, to start challenging some
things because we like I, the,
488
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:38,040
the, the language or the rather
the rhetoric that you hear.
489
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,680
And that what we're, where we
get knocked is like, Oh, you
490
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,080
guys just do a bunch of random
stuff.
491
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,600
Like all your stuff is all about
just being random.
492
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:50,000
It's like that actually, there's
a time and place for that.
493
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,000
You know, some of the some of
the stuff that I've I've run
494
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,120
across too isn't necessarily
from eco D, but one on just
495
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,600
learning right.
And in learning, if you wanted
496
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:08,280
to get really good at art
history, you would think and the
497
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,680
way most people study is just to
study one era at a time.
498
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,240
But if you actually want to get
good at picking out what era art
499
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,600
is from, you actually need to
study multiple eras at once,
500
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,680
because then you can start to
notice the differences.
501
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:27,560
And so I say all that or there's
there's other study about like
502
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,720
learning music or a song or
whatever and just doing like
503
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,040
small strips, like of the sheet
music.
504
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,240
And all of a sudden you get much
better at all these different
505
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,400
types of things.
And so there's, there's a level
506
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,480
of, yes, you do need some
structure and randomness can
507
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,880
help create some level of
flexibility and you can actually
508
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,320
start to see patterns when you
do that.
509
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:54,240
But at some level, what I've
also experienced is that that
510
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,600
guys can sometimes struggle when
you go back to something that is
511
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:02,840
just a pattern.
And so you also have to it.
512
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,240
Well, I wanted to share this one
video cause this one person I
513
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,760
was listening to, he was talking
about how, and he's also an
514
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,680
artist and this is interesting,
right?
515
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:18,560
He was used.
He, he was saying that.
516
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,360
What was it?
No, I didn't pull this up.
517
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,160
What's this clip?
Repetition is the soil in which
518
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,920
spontaneity is birthed, is what
he said.
519
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,120
And it's, and he's talking about
like kind of in a way doing the
520
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,560
same thing over and over and
over and over again.
521
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,440
And when you start to like when
you look at something like dance
522
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,920
and flow stuff, really when you
start breaking it down, dance is
523
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,320
just a bunch of repeated
patterns.
524
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,520
And when I was learning swing
dance, I thought I was doing
525
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,240
something really boring.
But when you start thinking
526
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,560
about it more to, to somebody
who's watching it, they're like,
527
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,320
oh, wow, that's kind of, that's
really cool.
528
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,720
And so like, I just strung
together a bunch of like basic
529
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,160
moves.
And that's kind of the thing
530
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,480
once you look at like the animal
flow, guys, I don't think animal
531
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,120
flow is the right word, But you
know, the, the movement flow,
532
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,760
not, not the baseball 1, but
like the, the, the fitness type
533
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,120
people, their stuff.
They're just like spins and
534
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:18,760
different things.
And it's just like repeated
535
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,360
patterns.
And through that, though, they
536
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,800
create some very, very creative
things.
537
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,560
And so I say all that to say is
that actually I'm starting to re
538
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:37,560
think about, are we really super
anti repetition?
539
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,920
Like do we actually need to
moderate that, you know, because
540
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,200
people in the past have found
that, well, when I, when I
541
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,240
practice a bunch of, you know,
throwing more fastballs, I tend
542
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,240
to throw my fastball better.
You know, when I practice this,
543
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,640
you know, if I want to get feel
for my change up, well, I'm not,
544
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,960
I'm going to eliminate all these
other pitches and I'm so that I
545
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,760
basically have to throw more
change UPS, right?
546
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,080
Or like, I think it was like
Johann Santana, in order for him
547
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,960
to learn his change up or
whatever, they just basically
548
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:08,880
told him, you're going to throw
nothing other than change UPS,
549
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,960
right?
And so like, I guess that's
550
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,360
there's that clearly helped him
in some way.
551
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,920
So I I think we have to, we have
to, we have to have an account
552
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:26,199
for that.
Yeah, I would add that one thing
553
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:32,440
I've noticed since applying this
is when you're applying it with,
554
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,719
you know, my team, for example,
my pitchers, etcetera, your
555
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:46,199
group, it feels like when you
start talking about the
556
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,880
principles of not doing the same
thing the same way over and over
557
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,480
and over again, because that's
not actually what emerges in the
558
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,520
game when you look at it with a,
you know, fine tooth comb, so to
559
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,440
speak.
What tends to happen is let's
560
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,600
just take catch play, for
example, what you do, you know,
561
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,480
all your in fielders are doing
it, outfielders, etcetera.
562
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,520
All your pitchers are doing it
before they go to the bullpen,
563
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,680
they're going to go play catch
play.
564
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,800
And whether you're, you know, a
proponent of certain distances
565
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,680
or Alan Jagger or whatever,
right, like there's this form or
566
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:23,880
this structure that a lot of
people put in.
567
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:30,280
So when I institute something
like we want to have more
568
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,720
athletic catch play, we we don't
want to just be robots the whole
569
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,920
time, but we want to move and
flow and do different things.
570
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:43,000
What tends to happen is that
guys feel like every throw has
571
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,600
to be 180° different than the
one before.
572
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,800
And that's been frustrating for
me because that's not actually
573
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:49,880
what's happening during the
game.
574
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,600
I want to acknowledge that.
I think exploring way beyond and
575
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,040
even just slightly beyond what
they're experiencing as a
576
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,360
pitcher still has crucial,
important benefits.
577
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,120
But for instance, yesterday
during practice, because I've,
578
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,160
I've captured that and seen that
so often, I finally just had to
579
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,720
controls the wrong word, but
zoom them in much, much
580
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,960
stronger.
And what I did was, is I talked
581
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,640
to each set of partners for
catch play and I said, hey,
582
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,480
player A is going to start the
catch play with something that
583
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,040
they want to start with.
A lot of our guys will start
584
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,360
with like they'll just do
circles with their arms and then
585
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,920
they'll just let the ball go.
I go, the other person's
586
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,640
required to copy that once.
And then what's going to happen
587
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:44,480
is the the original person who
sort of chose the initial drill
588
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,400
movement, whatever you want to
call it, you have to figure out
589
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,480
a way to do it such that when I
look at you, I go, oh, that
590
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:52,640
looks similar, but it's just a
little bit different.
591
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,440
And then the other person needs
to build on top of that.
592
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,280
And now they're going to do it
and I'm going to go, they're
593
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,640
doing the same like throw, but
he just took a step to the side
594
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,520
or a step backwards.
And you're going to do that 5 or
595
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,760
6 times.
You're going to try to build
596
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,760
onto each other and you're going
to sort of play a game where you
597
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,760
watch the other person.
You go, oh, that makes me think
598
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,640
I could subtly vary it in this
way.
599
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:13,960
And you're going to do that for
the entirety of your catch play.
600
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,840
And you're going to do it 5 or 6
times.
601
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,200
And then the other partners now
going to pick a new thing to do.
602
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,760
They're going to define what it
is.
603
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,000
You're going to go back and
forth for five to six reps each.
604
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,600
So you're getting 11:50,
hopefully unique and different,
605
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,640
but still within variable, but
not.
606
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,920
So I just have to do crazy
stuff.
607
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,800
And I think that what can emerge
from that is really creative
608
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,120
things such as what you're
talking about with you on
609
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,720
Santana having to throw only
change UPS.
610
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,480
Well, he's not only, especially
if he was being asked to do that
611
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,040
in the game, if he's coming up
in the minors, he's gone.
612
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:49,880
Well, then I have to figure out
how to do different things with
613
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,640
this to get guys out if it's the
only pitch I can ever throw.
614
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,880
And so that's where I think that
what you're saying can have some
615
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,960
really beautiful creativity is
that with when you constrain
616
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,240
them and you say this is the
only option you have, you have
617
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:08,000
to start getting really creative
with how that gets expressed.
618
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:12,400
Even if from a 30,000 foot view,
it looks like the same pitch
619
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,440
over and over or it looks like a
very similar movement over and
620
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,720
over, at a more granular level,
it becomes very variable.
621
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:21,120
And I actually think that's
something I'm looking for my
622
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,800
guys to do more of.
Not when I do my plyo work.
623
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:29,200
Everything looks like a totally
different job every time, but
624
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,280
they're finding subtle ways to
move and solve the problem that
625
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:35,960
they're trying to do.
Whether they're being more
626
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,880
internally focused and they want
to focus a little bit on some
627
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,320
sort of mechanical thing that
they want.
628
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,840
I'm not going to push back
against that all the time.
629
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,360
Or if it's more of an external
target goal and we're just
630
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,280
putting different things.
So I think that that's an
631
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,960
important piece that you're
bringing out about that
632
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,800
repetition.
And, and I think that we see
633
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,720
this, there's a website where
it's, I think it's only haikus
634
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,160
about spam.
And it's like, how silly and
635
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,400
weird is that?
But they put such a crazy
636
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,160
constraint that what you get is
incredible creativity about
637
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,200
haikus within spam because
that's the only thing they can
638
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,000
write about.
And I think that that's what
639
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,040
we're kind of talking about here
is that there's incredible value
640
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:21,320
in that because our game does
look fairly similar thing to
641
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,640
thing to thing.
It's not like a football game
642
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,200
where it's going to be, you
know, the movements are going to
643
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,520
be dictated and very different
whether you're closer to the
644
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,200
sidelines, bigger hole position,
etcetera.
645
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,800
Ours do tend to at times look a
little bit more similar.
646
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,040
And I think that that's maybe
we're talking about a little bit
647
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,200
here.
Yeah, I'm going to try to do
648
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,920
something here.
I don't know if I'm going to be
649
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,320
successful.
I'm going to try to tie a bunch
650
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,440
of things in here together.
Let's see here one of the things
651
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,560
that because I mean there's a
lot there that I want to kind of
652
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,920
touch on.
Let's see here all, all that's
653
00:39:53,920 --> 00:40:03,400
running away from me.
So when it comes to going back
654
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,120
to what we've, we've been
talking about transfer of
655
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,720
training, OK, we want to see
things transfer to the field.
656
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,160
So this is something that Sean
brought up when he was working
657
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,920
with Everson and he would like
the, their whole offseason theme
658
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,640
was exploration.
And so he's exploring, trying to
659
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,440
be creative, finding ways to get
stuff done.
660
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,840
I, I feel like I've said this
multiple times on the podcast,
661
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,760
but anyways, hopefully this this
will start to resonate and make
662
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,080
more sense in the context here
of OK, so he is doing all this
663
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,080
exploration.
He's getting into pre season
664
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:41,100
where he needs to win a job and
he's still exploring in pre
665
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:44,840
season when he needs to find us,
find the most parsimonious
666
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:50,280
solution and get the job done.
And this for me, like that story
667
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:54,600
illustrated to me this, this
tension, this that you're
668
00:40:54,600 --> 00:41:00,520
playing here of exploration and
creativity and the most
669
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,240
functional solution.
And this actually comes back to,
670
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:07,520
to me of like one of the vital
things that ecological dynamics,
671
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,360
especially ecological psychology
is trying to get us, is trying
672
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,960
to get us to understand is it's
about connecting to the
673
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,120
environment, to the information
that is present right now,
674
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:21,240
right?
This is the thing of like, you
675
00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:24,080
know, all the, the, the mental
performance coaches, right,
676
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,400
Brian Kane, etcetera, right?
They keep talking about being
677
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,560
present, right?
Being present to the what is,
678
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,000
what is present and how am I
coupling my movement, my action
679
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,680
to that.
And what all this exploration in
680
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,160
this creativity stuff is trying
to do is trying to allow us to
681
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:48,000
connect to the what is and also
to begin to be more sensitive to
682
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,920
the to the, to the affordances
that are available, not just one
683
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,120
affordance, right?
Because we go back to the
684
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,640
attractor states that we kind of
talked about before, like our
685
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,360
natural tendencies are favorite
solutions, right?
686
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,840
If we only have a hammer,
everything looks like a nail,
687
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,440
right?
But if you start to play with
688
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,520
the hammer and start to see
other ways of using the hammer,
689
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,960
once you get into situations
where you're like, this is a
690
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,000
little puzzling.
All of a sudden, the, the, the
691
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,960
affordance or the, you begin to
see another way to solve that
692
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,280
problem with that hammer, how
you can use things when you're
693
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,360
missing the tool that you that
would be ideal for it or you'd
694
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,520
have no idea.
All of a sudden now, because
695
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,680
you've done all this
exploration, all this creativity
696
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,360
stuff, you become, you be,
you're able to find a solution
697
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,840
in that moment that fits the
problem instead of trying to hit
698
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,880
it like it's a nail when it's
not a nail.
699
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,360
And so to me, this is, this is
kind of where things need to
700
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,400
start to transition of like, OK,
instead of trying to be as
701
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,760
creative as possible, how can I
be most in the present and just
702
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,080
let things flow?
And like, like I was talking
703
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:58,160
about before, this whole notion
of repetition is the soil in
704
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:00,760
which spontaneity is birthed,
right?
705
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,600
Being in the moment, the more
you can get into the moment.
706
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,800
Because some of this has been a
hard thing for me to reconcile,
707
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,000
you know, in, in my faith
practice.
708
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,520
And there's so much about the,
the, the being Eastern Orthodox
709
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,040
that is very, very similar to
ecological dynamics, this whole
710
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,480
notion of being present, of
embodiment and participation and
711
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,120
all these sort of things.
But yet there's all this
712
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,800
repetition within the, how
things are going, like your
713
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,120
prayer rule, all this sort of
stuff.
714
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,160
And that it's, it's, it's, you
already know what's going to
715
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,160
happen.
But there's something about it
716
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:45,520
of like when you are so in tune
with what's going on, you
717
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,360
basically can give yourself
fully to it because you, you
718
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,160
basically this is this is, This
is why you need rules, right?
719
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,200
This is why there's rules in
baseball so that you can give
720
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,440
yourself fully to it and know
what to expect.
721
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,520
And and not like just out of
completely left field have to
722
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,360
worry about, you know, somebody
just coming out of the stands
723
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,920
and just like tackling you like
it's football, like just
724
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,000
something just completely
random, you know.
725
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:17,400
And so this is this is where you
kind of get back to of like you,
726
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:24,400
you want rather there are
patterns within within the game.
727
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,800
And the more that you can get
into the moment, the more that
728
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,160
you can start to introduce like
this is this to me comes back to
729
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,360
the CLA of of skillful and
artful manipulation of
730
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:37,720
constraints.
All right, the system is moving.
731
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,840
All right, let's throw, let's
throw a little little curveball
732
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,520
into the mix.
All right, How does that, how
733
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,760
does that change what's going
on?
734
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,880
And you we're because I've now
I've spent a little bit more
735
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,600
time looking at dynamic systems
theory and some of this stuff
736
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,200
came up when I was initially
first reading dynamics of skill
737
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,360
acquisition.
So what you begin to see when
738
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:06,040
you look at the the movement
behavior is that or even like in
739
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,640
the brain, right?
There's brain waves.
740
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:11,640
And when you have coherence,
it's actually very rhythmical,
741
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:13,680
OK?
And the same thing is true when
742
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,880
it comes to movement.
There are going back to
743
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,800
attractor states, OK?
So there's this idea and this
744
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:26,040
concept of like, OK, out of
dynamic systems theory or chaos
745
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:30,760
theory, a dynamical system is
very sensitive to the initial
746
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,760
conditions.
You change the initial condition
747
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,600
conditions just ever so slightly
and you're the outcomes that
748
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,120
you'll get are going to start to
diverge.
749
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:43,360
Like they're never going to
follow the same exact path.
750
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,000
You're never going to repeat the
same exact thing.
751
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,640
But early on it will look very
similar.
752
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,320
But the longer things play out,
the more divergent there is.
753
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,240
So this is This is why because
they use, they use chaos theory
754
00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,040
to that's how we get our
weather.
755
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,520
This is why they can't predict
more than 10 days out with any
756
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,880
level of accuracy is because the
further the model goes out, the
757
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:11,560
more the more the error begins
to, you know, get magnified.
758
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:12,520
You know, it's the same thing,
right?
759
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,160
If I'm off just a little bit at
the beginning and I want to go
760
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,680
to, you know, McDonald's or
whatever.
761
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,520
If I'm off just by a little bit,
no big deal because it's still
762
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,960
going in the direction that I'm
trying to go.
763
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,240
If I want to go north of even if
I'm off just a little bit to the
764
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,920
West, I'm still heading north.
But the further out I go, the
765
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,960
more off of north I'm going to
be.
766
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:37,440
So this is true when it comes to
our, our movements and whatnot,
767
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,600
is that these, these small
conditions start to make these
768
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,160
big changes later, like longer
down the road.
769
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:47,000
But also within that you see
this pattern, these patterns
770
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,360
emerge in these dynamical
systems.
771
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:56,800
And these patterns often times,
well, to me, the, the way that
772
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,000
they're, they, they move,
they're, they kind of have like
773
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,440
a, they have a rhythm to it.
There's something, there's
774
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:05,480
something about them that.
So for example, a lot of the,
775
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:07,920
the different tasks that are
like oscillations.
776
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:15,560
And so there's where I'm going
with this is that rhythm seems
777
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,200
to be a huge component in order
for us to move in a fluid way.
778
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,520
And this is something that in
the sport movement skill
779
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,560
conference, Rafe Kelly talked
about, in talking about like
780
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:29,240
what are the basics of, of
locomotion or, or whatnot.
781
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:34,520
And so to me, this is where
rhythm and what is rhythm?
782
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,600
Rhythm is a repeated pattern.
And so this is where, OK, so if
783
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,800
you can get in rhythm, all of a
sudden now you can start to be
784
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,280
creative.
You can do, you know, you can
785
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,680
syncopate things, right?
Like this is, or you can slow
786
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,840
things down, whatever.
You know, you can take a pause,
787
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:52,960
all these different sort of
things.
788
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,360
And still, as long as you stay
in rhythm, your movements are
789
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:02,200
able to, to be to to flow and to
stay connected to the what is.
790
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,960
So anyways, that's that to me is
like something that I've been
791
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:11,400
thinking more about is, is what
is this interplay between
792
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:17,400
repetition and never and Rep
without Rep?
793
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:23,360
How do these two things play
together to get US1 creativity
794
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:30,560
but also skilled performance?
It makes me think of that that
795
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:36,680
our starting catcher had this
past weekend, he was late on a
796
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,440
fastball and then for some
reason the lefty threw him a
797
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,120
breaking ball and he was way out
in front of it but got his
798
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,880
barrel to it and hit it right
down the line for a home run.
799
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:52,800
And not only was the sequence I
thought terrible, but it was
800
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:59,840
such a perfect example of how to
look at one side of the of the
801
00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:03,280
equation, so to speak.
Having the same swing every
802
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,000
single time will not work.
Now.
803
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:12,080
What would be the, when we're
doing a dynamic warm up or we're
804
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,440
doing catch play, and I'm
talking about that example and
805
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,320
it's like you're making every
Rep different.
806
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:22,320
That feels like it can be a lot
crazier different when you're
807
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,800
swinging a bat.
Like there's not a ton of
808
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,880
different ways.
There's not ways to me that I
809
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,040
currently think of that I'm
going to swing that bat.
810
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,640
It's going to be drastically
different in terms of having to
811
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,920
hit a ball coming at me, but I
could, I could pull the ball by
812
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,480
trying to get jammed.
I could pull the ball by being
813
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,480
on time.
I could pull the ball by being
814
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,360
out front.
Essentially, I could find these
815
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:54,960
creative ways to do the same
thing, to pull the ball and and
816
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,000
to see if I could have success
hitting it down the line.
817
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,520
Because in this situation, like
it didn't look super pretty.
818
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,080
He wasn't.
I don't think he was necessarily
819
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,840
fooled because he was late on
the previous pitch, but he was a
820
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,720
little out front of this, but he
had a functional solution and it
821
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:13,080
was a great one.
It was a home run.
822
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,440
It was the best solution that
you could possibly have as a
823
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,360
hitter.
And I think that that's that's
824
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,720
what it makes me think of just a
little bit is, is, is how do we
825
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:25,120
zone in our repetition rhythm,
etcetera, that you're talking
826
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,240
about our Rep without Rep to
accomplish different things in
827
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:32,800
the same way, but but not
accidentally communicate that it
828
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,800
has to look drastically crazy
weird.
829
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:42,040
But but that we can look at a
lot of these players and
830
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:47,600
programs that are they having
success because they're doing
831
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,440
the same drill over and over.
I think we would fight back on
832
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:51,560
that.
And I think we would look at the
833
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:55,080
more long term development and
acknowledge that those guys are
834
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,000
being embedded in a lot of game
environments, etcetera.
835
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:00,520
But I think that that's one way
that we could look at that and
836
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,920
go, why?
Why might that player be getting
837
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,920
better instead of ruined?
Because sometimes I think maybe
838
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:12,440
the way that we talk about
ecodynamics is like, we almost
839
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:14,080
like, what if you're going to do
the same thing every single
840
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,360
time, then that's going to ruin
you.
841
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,000
And, and that's not what we're
saying.
842
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,600
What we're saying is that
there's a better way to do it.
843
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,720
You'll probably get better at
hitting a baseball if you hit
844
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:25,360
the baseball in the same way
every single time because you're
845
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:28,520
still hitting a baseball.
The human body is an amazingly
846
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,640
adaptable.
We just think that this way will
847
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:32,800
make you better faster, it'll
make you more adaptable.
848
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,600
It'll make you have solutions
like our catcher did this past
849
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,600
weekend, ones that maybe don't
look perfect, that are
850
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,640
completely functional for the
situation that emerged.
851
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:47,520
Well, and also to, to that point
of you're more adaptable and
852
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:53,400
this going back to your point of
yeah, OK, well, OK, so I got, I
853
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,040
got a response on a, on a
comment that I put on a, a
854
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:02,720
YouTube video about about
traject and my, my thoughts on,
855
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,480
on that.
And they took it to me.
856
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:10,520
And like, oh, well, then if, if
that's the case, you know, then
857
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,920
we should see guys getting worse
and we don't see that.
858
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,040
And it's like, no, that's not
all what I'm saying.
859
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,560
What I am saying is that you
might not see a transfer.
860
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:20,520
And here's the other thing,
right?
861
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:24,640
With all things that we do, OK,
this I, I learned this
862
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,200
specifically in strength and
conditioning.
863
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,880
There is a there's a bell curve,
right?
864
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:39,240
The whole the whole rating scale
80 was it 6020, right that that
865
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:41,480
they use that scouts use, right?
That's the bell curve.
866
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:46,280
OK.
So there's a bell curve on any
867
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,000
training modality where you're
going to have your high
868
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,400
responders and you're going to
have your low responders.
869
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:56,480
And so and also too, you have
multiple different things of
870
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,000
like survivorship bias, all
these different types of things
871
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,080
like that that are that we have
to remember when we start
872
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,360
looking at the success that a
facility or program or whatever
873
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,320
has, it's like, OK, for how many
guys that it worked for?
874
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,880
How many guys did it not work
for?
875
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,680
Do you have?
Because again, it just goes back
876
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,680
to this whole thing of like,
well, if all you've got is a
877
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,320
hammer, than everything looks
like a nail.
878
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:21,000
And if you happen to be a screw,
you're going to just get smashed
879
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:25,480
like your nail, that might not
go so well because it a screw is
880
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,800
not designed like a nail.
So anyways, you know, the whole
881
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:33,720
like, you know, circle or square
peg circle type of thing, right?
882
00:53:33,720 --> 00:53:39,280
So the other element that needs
to be remembered is that these
883
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:42,440
ways of like we even talked
about in one of our previous
884
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,400
episodes of like, you know,
thinking that, OK, if I zone in,
885
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,480
you know, you might have success
If you if especially if your
886
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:55,160
opponent hasn't adapted yet,
their strategy, OK, your
887
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,760
strategy might work because
maybe your strategy fits a niche
888
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:03,200
like within within the current
landscape of how the game is.
889
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,240
But if the game keeps developing
and changing strategies, This is
890
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:11,560
why, for example, the flyball
revolution was just went
891
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:13,680
gangbusters for a little bit,
right?
892
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,640
Is that everybody before was
their mentality was all right.
893
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,920
I'm just trying to hit a ground
ball to to the second to
894
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,240
backside, you know, low line
drives all this sort of stuff
895
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,640
station to station.
And then pitchers are getting
896
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,400
even more nasty.
And then the defense is getting
897
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,000
better.
Guys are becoming more athletic.
898
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,360
And so then all the sudden the
strategy isn't not as effective
899
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:37,960
as it used to be.
All of a sudden you tell guys to
900
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:42,480
like hit the ball in the air and
surprise, surprise, like, you
901
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,920
know, and two, be ready for the
fastball.
902
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,160
Most, most pitching, like the
pitching side used to be really
903
00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:51,680
fastball focused.
You know, try to and they preach
904
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,520
throw in strikes, get strike
one.
905
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:56,040
So then you could sit there and
you could you could train
906
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,760
fastball, be on time for the
fastball and just go ham on
907
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:01,960
that.
We're not there anymore.
908
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,680
That game is that game is
largely moving on.
909
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,440
And so this is where from a from
an offensive standpoint, this
910
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,280
whole like, OK, just get your a
swing off all the time.
911
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,280
I don't think that like it.
It will work for some, but I
912
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:19,120
think that's not going to work
for everybody.
913
00:55:19,240 --> 00:55:21,240
And so you need to.
Have to run into a picture where
914
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:22,920
it doesn't work.
Right.
915
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,000
And so it's like, OK, are you,
is your offense only
916
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,400
one-dimensional?
And this like we're using
917
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:30,280
offense as an example, but like,
is your game just whether it's
918
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:33,680
offense, defense, whatever, is
your game one-dimensional or
919
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,720
does your game have flexibility
so that it you have multiple
920
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:40,680
tools in the toolbox so that,
OK, we run into a certain
921
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:41,960
constraint, the wind's blowing
in.
922
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,840
OK, Do you have another way?
Do you have a way to adapt?
923
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,040
And if you're this go like, and
I think, you know, this comes
924
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,840
back to I think this is the
wave, sorry to cut you off, but
925
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,280
this is the wave that I feel
like it's kind of in in the air
926
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,120
within the the baseball
community of like, OK, what
927
00:55:58,120 --> 00:56:00,600
Glasnost said being athletic.
What does that mean?
928
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:02,920
OK, I think that's always been
in there.
929
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,120
But what does it mean?
I think ecological dynamics can
930
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,320
explain what that means in a
very detailed way that's
931
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:14,720
concrete, not just this kind of
abstract concept of athleticism,
932
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,880
right?
Like, whereas like what we're
933
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,240
saying is athleticism means that
you have multiple different ways
934
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:22,960
to solve the problem, you're
adaptable.
935
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,480
So yes, that's, that's still a
broad term, but I think it's
936
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:32,240
more, it brings more clarity to
what is being asked and said
937
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,600
rather than just like, Oh yeah.
Like, because even that was said
938
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,160
to me.
Oh yeah, you're you're athletic.
939
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,320
OK.
What does that mean?
940
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:41,320
Oh, well, you do things that are
different.
941
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,200
OK.
But is it functional?
942
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,120
Because that was my thing was
like, I mean, it's not as
943
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:46,880
functional.
Yeah.
944
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,560
OK, maybe I move different ways,
whatever.
945
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,000
I don't know.
But I did not perform at a high
946
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,200
enough level, right?
So like that's that to me
947
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,440
becomes the the the other piece
of it is like athleticism has to
948
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:03,720
also play.
So that those are at least kind
949
00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:08,160
of my my initial thoughts when
it comes to all right, we need
950
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,200
to I don't even know what I'm
saying.
951
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,240
What were you going to say?
I think This is why scouting
952
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:22,280
reports can work and do work,
quite frankly, and why teams
953
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:24,320
why?
And I think we've learned this
954
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,800
from football.
I'll confess, I'm not like a
955
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,680
huge, I'm going to sit and watch
8 million clips.
956
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,520
I I've never been in the
football world, but I think we
957
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:36,440
really adopted that from them.
They watch a lot of film.
958
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:40,440
You heard Peyton Manning do that
all the time, and so you
959
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:44,920
absolutely pick up on tendencies
and things that are going to
960
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,240
guide your search when you're in
that situation.
961
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,120
I think This is why scouting
reports work is because you'll
962
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,200
watch a team, you'll see a
tendency, something that you can
963
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,120
exploit, and then you go do that
as a pitcher, as a hitter on the
964
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,720
defensive side of the ball.
We just had a scouting meeting
965
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:06,920
for our first few teams.
We play on spring break and one
966
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,320
of the teams that came up was
like, Oh yeah, this team hits
967
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,560
for a lot of average.
Like they've good hitters, high
968
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,560
average.
Oh, by the way, they also like
969
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,400
crush balls.
Oh, OK, so they do damage.
970
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:22,080
Yeah, but they might like steal
and bunt on you too.
971
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:25,720
OK, so pretty much they'll find
a way to win the game in any
972
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:26,920
way.
How are they?
973
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:28,800
They'll be like the best team we
play.
974
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:31,840
OK, that makes sense.
And so that's kind of what we're
975
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,080
talking about here is if you are
that one trick pony, it it'll
976
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,440
it'll definitely probably work.
And, and I think we see this a
977
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:43,880
lot in so many different places
that you know, well, I'll, I'll
978
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,440
say I'm an Atlanta Braves fan
and couple years ago, I think
979
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,560
they won 100 and some games they
like.
980
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:54,160
I think they tied the twins home
run record like then unreal
981
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,680
offensive year.
And then they got into the
982
00:58:56,680 --> 00:58:59,800
playoffs, played the Phillies,
and they had guy after guy after
983
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:05,080
guy who were throwing smoke and
like hard breaking balls out of
984
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,360
the pen.
And they lost the series.
985
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,840
And obviously it's a short, it's
a random game.
986
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,000
It's not, as you know, baseball
can be so random like that.
987
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,840
But I think the point is, is
that's probably why scouting
988
00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:23,200
reports are very useful.
But that's where the advantage
989
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:29,600
could be had for you is if you
are training in a way that is
990
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:34,280
functionally finding solutions
to win games in different ways,
991
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:36,880
you're going to be really hard
to beat.
992
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,280
And that could very well be the
next thing that people run after
993
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:47,160
here is how can you help a
player score in different ways?
994
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,720
How can you help a pitcher pitch
in different ways to be able to
995
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,320
get any sort of hitter out?
And I think that that's what
996
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,320
we're kind of saying with the
back to the repetition pieces.
997
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:02,560
Can you do the similar outcome
thing in different ways and not
998
01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:04,600
just?
Get the ball hard in different
999
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,280
ways.
Can you score in multiple
1000
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,640
different ways?
Those those are the teams that
1001
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,520
are quite frankly, the hardest
to beat because how do you
1002
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:13,720
exploit that team?
I don't know.
1003
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,240
You just have to execute better.
You just have to be more
1004
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:17,800
talented.
You just, you know, that's
1005
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:23,520
really, really hard to exploit.
And one of the things too on, on
1006
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:29,040
what you're saying is I think
part of the reason why
1007
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:33,240
tendencies and why we're seeing
so much success at the
1008
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,440
professional level of exploiting
people's weaknesses is because
1009
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:41,160
they just that's the athletes or
hitters or doesn't matter which
1010
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:43,800
side of it aren't trained to be
adaptable.
1011
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,640
So they're, they're left
swimming once their weakness is
1012
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:51,520
found out.
You know, and, and also to, to
1013
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:55,160
go off of what you're talking
about with with the Atlanta
1014
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,440
Braves, it makes me think of the
Minnesota Vikings, right?
1015
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:02,280
They've had a great year and
there's two different
1016
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,560
strategies, right?
There's the strategy that gets
1017
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,560
you to the dance, meaning the
playoffs.
1018
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,760
And then there's the one that
wins you the playoffs because
1019
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,200
the teams, in order to get to
the playoffs, you need to win X
1020
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,840
number of games.
So your strategy needs to be
1021
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:20,400
able to beat more than half of
your opponents, right?
1022
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,200
And so like that's, but then to
win the playoffs, your strategy
1023
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:30,840
needs to be able to beat the top
or like they're top teams of the
1024
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:32,560
whole league.
Those two things are not the
1025
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,160
same.
And like that's where even like
1026
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,640
the Minnesota Twins, I feel like
that's what that's that's why
1027
01:01:37,640 --> 01:01:40,040
they can't ever go far in the
playoffs or why they get
1028
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:44,360
eliminated almost right away, is
that they they're built well
1029
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:45,960
enough to get them through the
season.
1030
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,440
They're not built to beat the
best teams or the teams that
1031
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:53,000
have that, that have different
strategies that are unique or
1032
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,680
whatever.
They their matchups to them
1033
01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:57,840
aren't very good.
Their matchups may be really
1034
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:02,360
great for the bottom half of the
league, but they're not as well
1035
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,280
or not as good at the top,
right.
1036
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:07,600
And this is kind of the thing of
like, OK, yeah.
1037
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:10,840
All right, we we beat all the
teams we're supposed to, but how
1038
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,040
do you do against the best
teams?
1039
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:14,960
That's really the measure of
like how good you are in some in
1040
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,200
some respects, right.
If we're going to look at past
1041
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,840
performance, predicting future
performance, I'm going to go off
1042
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:22,040
of like, how do you play against
the best now?
1043
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:24,600
Do you play down to the worst?
Meaning if you start all if you
1044
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,560
also lose to the bottom and
while beating the top, like I
1045
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:28,880
also think there's something
wrong there.
1046
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:34,720
But anyways, that like, and so I
think that's that also plays
1047
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:41,400
into again, back to how are we
thinking about what we're trying
1048
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:46,040
to do, our intention right
there, the intent to well, you
1049
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,000
know, the Seattle Mariners,
we're just trying to win 53 or I
1050
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,240
can't remember 54.
I can't remember what the number
1051
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,360
was 56% of their their games.
That's what that that's their
1052
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:59,560
intention.
So their whole strategy and how
1053
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,000
they think about their team and
how they organize and run their
1054
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:08,320
team is around that, right?
Whereas, you know, I don't know
1055
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,000
what the Dodgers mentality is
and what their strategy is, but
1056
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:14,080
it's it might be, you know, they
have a different way of thinking
1057
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,760
about it.
So this, this kind of comes back
1058
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:21,560
to how much intent and what your
principles are really drive the
1059
01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:24,600
content and the, and the later
on outcomes and the
1060
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,280
sustainability of those
outcomes.
1061
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:31,520
And so for me, that's where an
ecological approach allows you.
1062
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,920
If your whole motto is like to
be adaptable, I don't know how
1063
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:39,840
that goes out of style, because
as the, your opponent adapts,
1064
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,560
you adapt to your opponent.
And so if you are, you know,
1065
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,600
kind of in a way like the
Dodgers and you're staying out
1066
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:50,560
ahead of it, you you got the,
you got the lead and you're
1067
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,760
going to keep iterating.
And adapting, not a baseball
1068
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:57,520
example, but here's probably a
better example.
1069
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,640
And granted, we know baseball,
the randomness is much
1070
01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,000
different.
So having this type of sustained
1071
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,880
success is really hard.
But one of the things that the
1072
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:10,400
New England Patriots were, you
know, famous for, so to speak,
1073
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,760
is, you know, people said, well,
they're a different team every
1074
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,480
week, that they they find these
things to exploit and they
1075
01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,640
become different.
Now, some within the locker
1076
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,120
room.
And I think this is actually a
1077
01:04:19,120 --> 01:04:21,480
really good example of exactly
what we're trying to talk about
1078
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:24,760
here.
It kind of got blown up in the
1079
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,560
media as like they're a
completely different team every
1080
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:29,840
single time.
And within the locker room they
1081
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,240
said, well, no, we're not like
we're, we're sticking to who we
1082
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,400
are.
And yet we adapt little by
1083
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,680
little to the team that we play.
And look at the success that
1084
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:42,240
they had in that run.
Now, obviously incredibly
1085
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:45,600
talented players, one of the
best quarterbacks of all time.
1086
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,240
You have to have those pieces in
place, but how then when you're
1087
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:51,520
doing exactly what you're
saying, when you're getting to
1088
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,720
the playoffs and you're playing
the best of the best, They have
1089
01:04:54,720 --> 01:05:00,760
this ability to make these minor
adaptations to continue to win
1090
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,640
and be the best amongst the
best.
1091
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,840
And that's essentially what
we've gotten onto this train
1092
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:11,960
with is sort of Rep without Rep,
not being completely different
1093
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:15,400
all the time, but sort of
potentially for the paths,
1094
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:20,120
staying true to who you are and
yet finding different nuanced
1095
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:24,160
ways to exploit, become
adaptable, Do it in different
1096
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:26,920
ways, win in different ways,
because ultimately the only
1097
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,320
thing that matters for them is
winning titles.
1098
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,800
And I think too, like it comes
back to, you know, like we kind
1099
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,960
of talked about before mindset,
if it's already part of your
1100
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,240
mindset, your intention to be
adaptable and that adaptability
1101
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:47,280
is something that you
prioritize, then all right, when
1102
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:50,520
things start to go like you're
able to shift and, and it goes
1103
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:52,800
back to again, what I was
talking about before, the the
1104
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,120
principle of, of staying in tune
and connected to what is what
1105
01:05:57,120 --> 01:05:59,400
currently is going on to being
present.
1106
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,000
And adaptability is in my mind,
really tied to that.
1107
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:05,360
It's not adaptability for the
sake of adaptability.
1108
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,960
Going back to transfer training,
kind of the, the whole point of
1109
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:12,200
this is like it's about finding
a functional fit.
1110
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,720
It's about the execution, it's
about the outcome, it's about
1111
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:17,440
the performance outcomes.
It's adaptability around that
1112
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:23,880
and every like another key
component of, you know, what are
1113
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:27,720
the basics of ecological
dynamics, right, is it's all
1114
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:29,600
especially the ecological
psychology side of it.
1115
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:33,400
It's all about relationships,
your relationship to the
1116
01:06:33,400 --> 01:06:37,960
information, the environment and
the relationship to your
1117
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,520
movements, your actions to the
outcome.
1118
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:45,520
And so your adaptability needs
to be tied to that towards
1119
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,360
working towards that end of
finding success.
1120
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:55,200
And so to me, that's that's what
why an ecological approach is,
1121
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,120
is extremely helpful to me,
like, and why I'm so passionate
1122
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:03,880
about trying to advocate for it.
Because this way of thinking,
1123
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,560
going back to like what I was
talking about before of like,
1124
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,800
OK, if you're off just a little
bit, OK, early on, you may have
1125
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,480
good results.
But the further you go down that
1126
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:17,360
road, if you don't have any self
correcting mechanisms, you're
1127
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,520
going to end up like your run of
success is going to be short
1128
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,000
lived.
Maybe it's, you know, the, the
1129
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,760
window that you have is going to
be shorter than if you have
1130
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:29,600
these self correcting
mechanisms.
1131
01:07:29,920 --> 01:07:33,200
And to me, this, this, when I
look at it like eco D the the
1132
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:37,080
ideas, the concepts will keep
you on the path that's going to
1133
01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:41,040
extend your window of success.
And so for me, that's that's why
1134
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:44,640
I think it's so powerful and is
why it's so different than
1135
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:48,480
everything else.
And also again, it's a Michael
1136
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:53,680
O'Connell put out a released a
sub stack article today that I
1137
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:57,040
thought is, is kind of where I
think things need to get going.
1138
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:02,640
As far as everybody is talking,
you know, the, the this era has
1139
01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:05,480
been the era of data, you know,
in being data-driven.
1140
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:10,480
I think the next phase and where
the next advancement lies is in
1141
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:16,479
being principally driven because
data doesn't doesn't tell you
1142
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:18,520
what to do.
Data needs to be analyzed.
1143
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:23,080
So you need principles and
frameworks to be able to help
1144
01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:26,359
you utilize that data in the
most effective way.
1145
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:29,720
Data doesn't interpret itself,
you know, like, and you have to
1146
01:08:29,720 --> 01:08:31,560
be able to discern from good,
bad, all this sort of stuff.
1147
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:37,040
Like data is just just is data.
And so you actually need a
1148
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:41,040
framework, you need principles
to actually know what to do with
1149
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:45,040
that stuff.
And so I think really ecological
1150
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:49,760
dynamics, it gives you
principles and a framework, a
1151
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,880
way of thinking to be able to
fully utilize everything in my
1152
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,080
mind from the past and the the
old and the new school stuff.
1153
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,560
And allows you to sift things
and to figure out what is good
1154
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:06,520
and useful and functional and,
and to know when and where to do
1155
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:08,640
that.
So that's kind of my pitch for
1156
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:09,920
that.
You got anything that you want
1157
01:09:09,920 --> 01:09:14,120
to land the plane on?
No, just I think the the most
1158
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,600
helpful thing is as we're
searching for those principles,
1159
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,120
I think that you highlighted it
twice, once the beginning here
1160
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,200
and then now again near at the
end.
1161
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,359
You know, being connected to the
outcomes that you're looking
1162
01:09:26,359 --> 01:09:30,760
for.
Not necessarily yeah, ones that
1163
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,760
a spin rate or something, but
something that's connected to
1164
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:40,720
the game and and allows you
getting yourself on base, right,
1165
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:44,520
getting the next guy up as a
hitter or or getting the batter
1166
01:09:44,520 --> 01:09:47,359
out as a pitcher.
You know, the thing that that is
1167
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:49,200
the very thing that will help
you win the game.
1168
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:50,840
That is the very thing that
you're trying to do.
1169
01:09:50,840 --> 01:09:53,600
So I think staying connected to
that and then ultimately kind of
1170
01:09:53,600 --> 01:09:55,840
what's underneath that is, is
what you said at the beginning
1171
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,000
that it really one of these
principles is, is very clear
1172
01:09:59,000 --> 01:10:02,000
that it comes back to problem
solving and having the ability
1173
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,080
to solve multiple types of
problems regardless of what
1174
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:09,520
emerges.
Yeah, I agree.
1175
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:11,520
All right, until next time.