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Welcome to this week's episode of Fields Notes, where we take a deeper dive into sermon text, discuss matters of life and faith, and enjoy conversations around the table with fellow friends from the fields.
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Well, Fields Notes listeners, welcome back.
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This is Joe speaking.
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Most of the time on the Fields Notes podcast, it is me sitting talking with two of my pastors from the Fields Church.
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That is also true today as well, that I'm sitting here with two of my pastors, but I'm not with Jeff and Jordan today.
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No, no, no.
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Oh no, I've already messed up.
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I'm not with Jeff and Braden.
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I'm with Jim and Jordan, uh, two of our lay elders, lay pastors at the Fields Church.
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Jim and Jordan, say hello.
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Hello, Joe.
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Thanks for having us.
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It's such a joy to be here with you.
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Hey, Joe.
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Good to be here.
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The joy is all mine.
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Um, we're so thankful for you guys.
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If you're uh listening, you probably saw the title to this.
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The we're we're calling this podcast, What's It Like to Be a Lay Elder?
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So, Jim and Jordan are our um two of our four pastor elders uh at our church, and uh they're our lay elders.
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They don't get paid by the church, they um serve as pastors, as elders in our church um in the time that they have in that.
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So we're so thankful for you guys.
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Uh Jim and Jordan, just uh briefly, a lot of people in our church know you, but um, yeah, briefly tell us a little bit about yourselves, your families, your jobs, um, how long you've been lay elders for, maybe a fun fact about you.
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Anything else you want to throw in as well?
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So uh this is Jim.
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I uh married to my wife, my wonderful wife Nancy, and uh we have four children.
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It's it's kind of strange to call them children because uh some of them are adults at this point, and I guess adult children, half of them anyway.
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Um, so uh four boy, four kids, two boys, two girls, boys on they book in the girls.
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So Alex is um graduated from college and in his own apartment, and Annabelle is at Taylor University.
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Uh Eleanor and Peter are in high school and they're in their teens, and Eleanor will soon be going to college, uh little.
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Which is crazy.
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Yeah.
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Jim, what do you do for work?
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Um, I work at a bank.
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That's the easiest way to explain it.
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Jim runs the merchant's capital realm, is what I tell people.
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Jim's in charge at Merchants Capital.
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I know there's other things to do.
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I wish.
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Yeah.
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Very cool.
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Maybe a fun fact about you, Jim.
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Uh fun fact.
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So we were bouncing these ideas around.
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Um facts are always hard to the dinner table.
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Right.
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Yeah, there's so many, right?
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Um, I don't know that I have too many fun facts.
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Mine are usually just boring facts.
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Um, I'll switch uh the one that I kind of landed on was that um I have a bit of a sweet tooth.
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Um I'm very grateful for my wife who loves to bake and fills our house with all sorts of wonderful sweet treats to enjoy.
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Um, so I have to exercise a lot of um of discipline and not filling myself with all of those.
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But um early on in our marriage, um, when I would go out to mother yard, a lot of times like I was addicted to those little vanilla wafer cookies, kind of like Oreos, but they're vanilla.
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Uh-huh.
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And I would eat like entire sleeves of those.
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Um, and um, so sometimes when I'd go out to mother yard, I'd fill a pocket with those cookies, and just as I'm going around mowing the yard, I would reach in and grab a cookie and uh and enjoy it.
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And uh yeah, just a nice sweet treat.
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And uh my kids like to make fun of me for doing that.
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I did not know that.
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Jim, the the cookie eating lawn mowing guy.
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That's that's great.
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I've since moved on from that, so I don't I don't stuff my pockets with cookies anymore.
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You might have inspired me.
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I might have to add that to my routine.
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I don't know.
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Every once in a while I might show up at a uh basketball game with a pocket full of Skittles.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah.
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We'll we'll be checking.
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Jim, how long have you been a lay elder for?
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Both both at uh Castleview, your previous church, and at the Fields, if you can do some math.
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I don't know if how quick you can think of that.
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Yeah, so to Fields Church, I think we're going uh we're just past three years as lay elders um at Castleview.
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Um, I'm just guessing here, somewhere around 13 or 14 years.
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Okay.
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Wow.
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So yeah.
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Jim, thanks.
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Jordan, how about you?
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Uh Jordan, you've got too many kids to count anymore.
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Yeah.
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We got them all over the place.
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Uh so Kate and I have been married 18 years this May, 23rd.
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Um, and we have six children from 15 down to uh two months old.
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Uh I work in the public sector.
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I've been a lay elder combined.
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Uh I I think I'm in my 12th year.
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Um, and a fun fact about me uh Kate and I have actually been married twice without getting divorced.
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What?
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Without any annulments or anything like that.
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Uh do tell.
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Follow-up story maybe for another time in its fullness, but uh we have to just come up to you and ask you this.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I'll share the story.
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But uh so uh sometimes I call her my second wife.
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Wow.
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Yeah, and she is my second wife and my first.
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I'm very curious.
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I'm very curious about this.
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I don't know if I won't be able to focus the rest.
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Well, it'll be all right.
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Jim Jordan, thanks guys for being here.
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Uh maybe briefly, and I kind of uh talked a little bit in the intro.
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We really in our tree church use uh elder and pastor interchangeably.
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Sometimes it's helpful uh that we use the word pastor for uh on staff pastors who are paid and lay elder for elders who are not on staff.
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Really, we they're they're interchangeable in in our eyes.
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But maybe if you guys should share briefly, what do elders and pastors do?
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How do you see your job, your role in our church?
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Well, um, three words are used in the New Testament to capture what elders do.
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Uh the first word is presbyteros, which we translate to be elder.
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It doesn't necessarily mean an old man, uh, but a mature Christian man, a seasoned man uh who's not a new convert.
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Um episcopas is another one, the word that we translate that to is overseer.
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So think authority, supervisor, uh, one who provides guidance, um supervision, and then uh the last one is poimain, which is shepherd uh or pastor.
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Pastor is just a fancy word for shepherd, uh, which captures the the component of care, nourishment, feeding, protecting, um, guidance as well, but uh done with tenderness and gentleness and great love and affection, uh, sacrifice, discomfort.
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Uh so the thing is about that, to answer your question, is that all three of these words are used interchangeably in different places in the New Testament.
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Um so Acts 20, Paul calls the elders of the church to come to him, and then he says that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers uh in order to shepherd the church of God.
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So he got all three of those words about the same office.
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Uh Titus 1, um five through seven, the Apostle Paul uh says to Titus to appoint elders in every city, and referring to these, he he then calls them in verse seven overseers.
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And then I think first Peter five is probably the clearest example of this where uh Peter is calling himself an elder who is writing to elders, and he says, I exhort you elders to shepherd, and then he says, serving as overseers.
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So you have all three of those words in one sentence used.
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Uh so an elder is very simply just a pastor, shepherd, overseer.
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Um the overseeing and the shepherding is done by uh these elders, these um mature Christian men, not perfect, but um mature Christian men.
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So this means that a team of elders should not be the nicest guys in the room who know everybody or uh the most wealthy or the most um prominently educated.
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Uh they're they're not Christian influencers or the uh the most affluent, but um they're mature Christian men who work together on a team um for the oversight and the care for God's people using the word of God in prayer as the means for how they do that.
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Thanks, Jordan.
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Do you have anything to add to that?
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I realize that I should have gone first.
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Um Hey, try, yeah, I'm welcome to my world.
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You're not gonna get the uh the Latin uh interpretation from me, but um yeah, just shepherd in and I think one thing that that I often remind myself is it's not my sheep that I'm caring for.
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It's somebody else's sheep.
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So as I'm shepherding them, I'm careful that that, hey, I've got to give an account for what what I'm doing here and how I'm caring for his sheep.
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I get to see somehow you you guys care intentionally for uh us members of the field.
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So I'm so thankful for the way you guys do that.
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You um protect, you teach, you have authority.
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So we're um so thankful for that.
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Um a little bit, Jim and Jordan.
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Um I do think uh in large part, I'll I'll just speak for you guys.
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I think you guys are elders because the churches you've been in have recognized that you guys are are doing those things that you said.
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But maybe for your own um just in your own lives, what what maybe were some desires you had or or um why why did you maybe even want to be elders to pursue being pastors both at Castleview and here at the fields?
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In in some ways I kind of fell into it in the sense that um I was digging, I was a new Christian because I became a Christian much later in my life, and um started attending Castleview and was reached out by the senior pastor there to do a study of systematic theology.
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And we did that over a year and a half.
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And um, as a new Christian, I was I was drinking this Kool-Aid in a sense, like freshly.
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Like I didn't have to unlearn any bad theology.
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I just had no theology at all.
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And so this was all new, and I was hungry, and I was reading and just drinking deeply of all of this good theology that I was learning.
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Um, and it caused me, it caused me to have just an intense hunger for God's word and learning it and trying to catch up on learning all I could about him.
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Um, and then I had a desire to tell others about him and to teach.
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And um it wasn't enough just to talk about him, but it was like I really had a desire to explain God's word.
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Um, I think one of the ways in which it has um has changed for me over the years is and I heard recently um uh John Piper said this at our at our pastor's conference we were at recently, that he says, I don't want to teach, I want to herald the word of God.
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Um, and I find myself just just having such a joy in heralding God's word.
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Um where maybe I didn't have it back then earlier early in my Christian walk, it was it was more so just digging deeply into his word and learning from it.
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And now I just I want to proclaim it and herald his word um to the people and to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.
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Jordan?
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Amen.
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I see a development and just in my own life where uh for me it began in high school.
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I had a faithful pastor who I really looked up to and learned a lot from.
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And um, I just had a general idea of what pastoral ministry was at the time.
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And I I wanted to do what I saw him doing preaching, teaching, discipling, counseling, uh, helping the sheep, helping to feed the sheep with God's word.
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Um and um after high school, he affirmed me and said, Hey, I I see gifts and graces in your life.
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What does it look like over the course of your life to uh to feed this and to develop this desire that you have for pastoral ministry?
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I think probably 15 years ago in the years leading up to um serving as an elder at Castleview, I I had a more developed uh desire that I wanted to um give of myself and sacrifice of myself to feed Christ's sheep with his word uh to protect them from false teaching and um those that would harm them.
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Uh and then I think since then uh the time that I was at Castleview, I really grew and my understanding of pastoral ministry really deepened uh to a point where I I was able to focus on um the reality that God is the one who is the shepherd and he has made these glorious promises and he has broken into um history and finished his work of salvation through Jesus' death and resurrection.
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Um and there are many other promises that he is keeping now and has yet to fulfill, and he will do that, and he will care for his people and sanctify them as he brings them through this very short life into the one that is to come.
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Uh, he is the shepherd.
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These are, as Jim said, his sheep.
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Uh and yet what a glorious and amazing thing he has under shepherds that he wants to be entrusted with this task.
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Uh so just just really growing and deepening in my desire to serve in that way has really helped me have a perspective that I think is appropriate and just led to just an obsession um about care for Christ's sheep.
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That's all that matters.
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And um I'm determined to care for them, whatever the cost.
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Um, and that's all that matters to me.
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I love Christ, I love his bride, I want to care for her, I want to see her finish well, and I look forward to that day when uh she is presented to him in perfect um condition uh in robes of white.
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Uh and uh that's that is I I want to do that well.
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Well, just to speak for our members of the church, we're so thankful for you guys and your desire to to to do that to care for us in in those ways.
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Um, maybe a little bit uh uh in line with the title of this podcast, maybe if you guys could give us a little bit of a behind the scenes of what's it really like to be a lay elder of a church?
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That sometimes we can picture maybe what it's like for uh Jeff and Braden that they their vocational hours that they spend are uh doing ministry training and uh teaching and those sorts of things.
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You guys have full-time jobs, families, lots of obligations, and yet you're still pastoring, shepherding uh uh our church.
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Um so maybe talk a little bit about uh what kind of logistics that might look like for you guys in your life, um, what kind of time commitments that look like in some ways too.
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Um, and then maybe how that even shapes your interactions with our church um being lay elders, if that makes sense.
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I can explain better too.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Uh so there's a book called The Vine Project by uh Colin Marshall and Tony Payne, where um they talk about how Christian ministry is using God's word to help people take what they call a step to the right or a step toward Christ, meeting people where they're at to engage them if they're uncontacted, to evangelize them if they're unbelievers, establish them as early believers, or to equip them as mature believers.
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And um, that is what we do.
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We preach, we teach, uh, we evangelize, pray, we visit the sick.
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Uh, but I would say the biggest difference logistically of what we do is we do that without as heavy as a load of administrative um activity.
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Uh so in general, our staff elders do a lot more formal events, meetings, planning, and these things are necessary and good, um, which our lay elders really can't get to because of we've got these other full-time jobs that we have to be engrossed in during the day.
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So we can't be at these uh like service review meetings or staff meetings or planning meetings or events that occur throughout the week.
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Um and our full-time staff elders uh do an amazing job with that, and not just our full-time uh staff elders, but our staff like you, Joe.
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Thanks, Joe.
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Yeah, we've got others on staff that just do an incredible job, and um, lay elders are not uh as available for these things, and I guarantee that um we are probably limited to fewer coffee times and meetups early in the morning than our full-time uh staff elders.
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Our full-time guys, they they really are full-time.
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These guys are tireless, they're dedicated and devoted.
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I mean, they're just moving nonstop.
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Uh, they're showing up and having early coffees with guys and then meetings all day, sermon prep, um, and then meeting and doing events in the evening.
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It's just nonstop um in a way that really lay elders are more early morning coffees, evenings, weekends, and sometimes during the job, taking taking calls, emails, and so forth.
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But um that's me.
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Jim is actually an elder extraordinaire who does Jim, Elder Extraordinaire.
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He does a ton of administrative work, a ton.
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Um, and he doesn't necessarily get to all the meetings, but he does a ton of uh administrative work that I could never do.
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And on top of that, he's doing all the dynamic work.
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His home is like a hospital of the Fields Church, just constantly with a revolving door of people coming in, sitting around his table, uh, that that he and his family minister to with the word of God, people receive strength and comfort.
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Um, so I'm I'm really just talking about myself.
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I'm the one with limits here.
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Jim's Superman.
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Yeah, I completely disagree with that.
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I um I I'm certainly not a Superman.
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Um and I think there's ways in in which you're doing amazing things, Jordan.
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Um, with with the little time in the day, you seem to maximize it very well.
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Um, I I think I'm doing more eldering here at the fields than I did at the at Castleview, at Castleview as the as the chairman of elders.
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Um, I was putting together meetings, agendas, and and things of that nature.
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There was just a lot going on that was administrative.
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Um it's been such a joy to be at the Fields Church.
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And I've spent more one-on-one time with members uh than I did, you know, at the previous position.
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And so um I have more time to spend with people and and and help them and to dig into God's word and and to see what it says about whatever they may be going through or or ways to encourage them.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.440
I get to connect with people and I and I and I absolutely love that.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:59.920
Um so yeah, you know, I I I remember uh a guy who um was a former elder at Castleview and he retired and he stepped down and he said, uh, and I asked, you know, how's his life going?
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.599
You know, what's going on as a Christian, but but not an elder.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.039
And he says, I'm doing more more eldering now than I did when I was an elder.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:15.440
And that resonated with me in the sense that, yeah, it's not so much what he did was um was administrative, and now he just gets to care for the sheep.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.240
Um and I love that.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:31.759
And that's the thing that I love so much about being an elder is just just to get to care for the sheep and and smell like the sheep and be amongst the sheep and and have the sheep over to our dinner table and and uh to the hospital that is the greenhouse.
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.400
I like that.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:40.000
So sick people like Callie and I can come in and have some of that cheesecake or whatever the the cake is that we've had from Nancy Nets.
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.119
So um uh thanks guys for for that.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:48.799
I think it's helpful to even picture what life is like for you guys uh in a sense in this uh lay elder role.
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:56.000
Uh you I've some in some ways you've answered this question, I think, but maybe just a more specific, I think people would want to hear the answer to this.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.319
What is your guys' uh what's the biggest joy of being a lay elder?
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:05.119
And also with that, what maybe is the most difficult part about being a lay elder?
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:13.680
I I think it's the same answer to both those questions, and that is um caring for God's sheep and caring for his people.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:24.799
Um it's such a joy, and it's very humbling to have people come to you with their pro with significant problems and and um and ask for help and and ask for prayer.
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:32.079
Um, and having the opportunity to pray for them in those moments is is both sweet, but it's also hard.
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:39.440
Um, and that they trust you to walk through those deep valleys uh with them and help them through it.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:50.319
Um in you know, Jordan and I have been elders together for a long time, and we've kind of we've spent nights in the same foxholes and just dealing with some hard things sometimes.
00:19:50.400 --> 00:20:00.400
And and you're walking with people, sometimes they're walking with you, sometimes they're they're pulling against you, and um and you as elders have to lock arms.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.680
Um those are sometimes difficult times.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:13.039
Um or or when you know they wanted help from you, but the help that they wanted from you is not necessarily the help that they're getting from you, and it, you know, they were looking for something different.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.279
Um and you know, we have to stick close to God's word.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:40.000
And um, and so when we're giving direction um or or uh uh counsel from God's word, and it doesn't align with what they expect, you know, sometimes the the the uh the sheep will bite um and you have to take those bites and and move on and and continue to care for them as well as you possibly can.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:41.200
Thanks, Jim.
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:41.680
Jordan?
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:42.960
Yeah, that's really well said.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:53.839
Uh there's a theme of death and resurrection in the scriptures that we know, and that's also a theme of the Christian life, and it's a theme of pastoral ministry, um, full-time and and lay.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:21:21.200
Um and so I think the hardest part would be some of the themes of death that we see, uh the destruction that we see in people's lives um when they are living in sin or unbelief, uh, people who can receive so much uh Christian teaching and discipling and uh so much hospitality uh and investment into their lives from others, and then um just turn their back on the church or um abandon their spouse.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:27.599
Um these are things that we've seen again and again that are just so sad and heartbreaking uh for us.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:29.359
Those those things are hard.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:45.119
Um and and then the resurrection part I would say is is the most uh joyful part, uh seeing God the shepherd do his work uh where we know that that um God is always at work in the lives of his people, always.
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:51.519
Um he doesn't sleep or slumber, even when we're not thinking about him, he's working in our lives by his providence, by his word, his spirit.
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:59.759
Uh even when we're not aware of what his word is doing in us, um, his spirit is is working in us, and yet we have key times as elders where we can.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:16.000
Can suddenly see fruit in someone's life when they're going through something, they're locking horns with sin and they they understand the gospel in a new way, or um we see God's grace take root in their life uh in a new powerful way, and and then maybe they'll fall back down again.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.720
But that's okay.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:24.720
We know that God is real, he rewards those who come to him, he's working, he's the shepherd of the church, he's faithful, and he will he will do his work.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:34.480
Uh so those are the moments when it's such a joy for us, um, especially in times of of affliction um and adversity for God's people.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:46.400
Um there's a sanctifying effect to it, kind of like a pastor that sits down week in and week out, uh, is sanctified by the scriptures that he is studying and then preaching.
00:22:46.720 --> 00:23:08.079
Well, in a way, for us as pastors, as we are meeting with Christians in our church and helping them uh grow in the knowledge of God and and um and and their practice of godliness, when when we see that, when we have somebody that's going through grief or loss or another miscarriage, uh, and they look at us with those tear-filled eyes and they say, I trust God.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.440
I will follow Jesus Christ, I will obey him.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.200
Oh, we we walk away blessed.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.880
I walk away with with example after example after example.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:20.720
This is what the Christian life looks like.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:22.799
Jordan, walk in this way.
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:33.279
I don't know who I would be if I had never become a pastor with all these examples of members dying, members going through hardship and difficulty, sickness, struggle with sin.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.519
Um it's an amazing thing.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:41.440
So just to receive all the life and sanctification that comes from that is uh is truly an unspeakable joy.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:49.519
And if I could say one last thing, those cases of death when people do walk away, they come back sometimes.
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:58.240
Um and that's another moment of resurrection where we realize, oh my goodness, all those late nights that we as elders were praying for these people with tears in our eyes.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:05.759
Two years later we find out they come back and they they join the church or they join somewhere else and um praise God.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.400
So that makes those discouraging times a little less discouraging to know, hey, you know what?
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:11.440
God is a shepherd.
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:12.960
This person seems long gone.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.640
We don't know what God's gonna do.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.079
Uh He might bring this person back.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.640
Maybe we'll see it, maybe we won't, but we'll trust God.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.119
It makes those hard times not as soul crushing, if you will.
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:24.160
Amen.
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.680
Yeah, thank you guys for that.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:40.559
Um, I I do think maybe just as I as I hear you guys talk, a theme that I think I even feel in this conversation is there really is a a weightiness to the the office of pastor or elder that um uh you guys take seriously.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:45.680
And I really appreciate that a lot, that you do not take your your jobs as pastors lightly.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.640
So thank you guys for that.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.119
I think there might be a uh temptation to for us to think like, oh, we look at Jim and Jordan and maybe even Jeff and Braden too, of oh yeah, they're pastors.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:54.720
That's kind of a fun thing to do.
00:24:54.880 --> 00:25:00.079
Um there's a real weight that you guys feel in um being accountable for the souls of your people.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:05.440
And so uh I'm yeah, we're I I think I've said this many times, so thankful for the way you guys bear that.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:15.759
Um maybe a note to uh maybe guys who are listening, who they themselves, the thought of being either a pastor or a lay elder, uh, sounds appealing to them.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.480
Like that might be an office that I would aspire to.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:24.960
What would you guys tell to maybe younger guys, maybe older guys uh who would aspire to the office of pastor?
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:34.480
What are some things that you would tell them as yourself, you guys self-being lay elders, um, to encourage them, to things for them to consider, uh things for them to do, maybe even now?
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.160
I think I'd say awesome.
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.039
You desire something noble, as the apostle Paul said.
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.359
Um, Jesus Christ is totally worth it.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.119
Uh, and don't be embarrassed of that.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.960
Develop it, cultivate it, uh, expect to grow in your understanding of it.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:50.079
Talk about it with your loved ones, talk about it with your pastors.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.759
Uh, don't be embarrassed about it.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:52.720
This is a good thing.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:59.519
You wanting to be a pastor doesn't mean that you think that you're all that or uh that you're perfect or that you're better than anybody else.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:07.200
It just means that you recognize God is a shepherd, he's he's got his shepherding work that he is doing, he's got under-shepherds, and and you want to be one of them.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.119
Um and just start start pushing that way.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:10.480
I mean, I'd start there.
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:22.880
Yeah, and I would say um go to First Timothy three, first Timothy chapter three, um, and start digging into those qualifications and just thinking through and um start living your life that way.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:40.079
Um the the quickest, easiest way for us to recognize other other men who um maybe you know have a desire to be to be a shepherd, um, and that that we may start to pour into to become become shepherds are are moving that way already.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:41.440
They're acting that way already.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:46.079
I I like to call it moving without the ball in a sense, but it's kind of like moving without the title.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:52.000
You're you're you're just you're doing the motions without having that that formal title of elder.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.720
Um, you're eldering already in a sense.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:22.480
Um, and that is one way that we would that we recognize that uh in in some men, um, even now uh at the church that we see some guys that are that are doing that, that don't have the necessarily the task or responsibility to do so, but I mean they do as as members of the church, but they're doing it exceptionally well, and they're digging in even deeper and uh seeking to counsel people and really help them because they have a desire to care and shepherd for God's sheep.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:27.440
And it's like, yeah, that that guy is a first Timothy three guy already.
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:29.759
Why don't why don't we recognize that?
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:38.000
Yeah, and that's that is something that we see in the scriptures in um 1 Timothy 3 and um in Titus 1, Paul is talking about what elders must be.
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:47.039
Uh they must be this, or in Titus he says that um elders must be able to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.160
This isn't something that these guys begin doing once they are recognized as elders.
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.960
They're they're already these men that are doing this.
00:27:55.039 --> 00:28:02.799
Uh so for men who who should be in ministry, this what Jim just talked about should be a comfort.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:10.720
Uh and I remember I remember that being a great comfort to me when I was in college, and my pastor said, Hey, I I see gifts and graces in you, let's develop those.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.799
And I remember thinking, well, why do I want to be a pastor?
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.119
And I don't need to wait to do all those things.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:23.279
And I thought about what all those things looked like that I wanted to do someday as a pastor, and I realized I can do all those things right now.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.160
And and I just felt so free to begin doing those things.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:34.240
And I was, I, I was uh doing the things that a pastor was doing in a very immature way, but uh that should be a comfort for those guys.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.880
Uh, and enter into a conversation with your pastors uh that that begins.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:45.200
And if they if these men who are interested end up becoming pastors, you really enter into a conversation that that never ends.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.799
Um there's some good books out there.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.920
There's one by Southern Seminary called Am I Called to Ministry?
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.680
I remember going through that booklet or that book with Eric Bancroft.
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:58.000
Um, there's another really good book called The Path to Being a Pastor by Bobby Jameson.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.960
It'd be an incredible book to go through with a pastor.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:07.680
But um I remember being um mentored by Jim at Castleview before I went into that um elder role.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:13.759
But the thing is, these conversations that we began where they're they're speaking into my life, they're asking me questions.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:20.319
I'm being stretched, I'm being corrected or rebuked, um, I'm growing in my understanding, but also in my life.
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.160
Uh, these are things that never end.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.079
I mean, I I never lost that with Jim and Eric Bancroft.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.720
I I just gained that with the other Castleview elders.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.599
And I gained it when I came here with Jeff and Braden.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.680
Uh Braden was giving me some incredible feedback the other day on a sermon.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:42.079
We sat down and I was I was growing uh in my understanding and um being humbled by some things.
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.119
Well, that that's what we want.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:43.839
That'll never end.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:49.440
So I would say, hey, to those guys that are interested, join that process now uh and begin growing.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.960
It will it will only help you regardless of whether you become a pastor or not.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:54.880
Great call to us.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.720
Uh well, Jordan and Jim, thank you guys so much for being on the podcast today.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:02.480
Um, if I could maybe even just speak on behalf of our of our church.
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:09.759
And uh for those of us in at the Fields Church, I'm uh we we might not understand how blessed we are to have you guys as lay elders.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:16.640
As I have conversations with people at other churches, even sometimes I read books about um elders, lay elders in particular.
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:25.599
It's just not uncommon for lay elders to maybe not be as theologically sharp, uh to not be as uh motivated, to not um to be all in like you guys are.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.640
And you guys are such a gift to our church in that way.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:37.200
Uh I I often come home and tell Callie, man, we we would not have made it if it weren't for the Lord sending Jordan and Jim with us and their families.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:44.319
So uh you guys have been such a such a gift to the Fields Church, such a gift to me, an encouragement to me that you guys are my pastors.
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.759
Uh, and I know many in our church would say the same thing in that.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:52.319
So, yes, thank you for your time here today, but thank you for all the time that you put into uh caring.
00:30:52.480 --> 00:31:07.039
And I think I I hope that people listening to this podcast recognize the the the effort and the the seriousness and the um the weight that you guys really, the the importance you put on your role um to protect us, to care for us, to teach us.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:08.559
Uh, we are blessed to have you guys.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.559
So, Jim and Jordan, thank you guys so much.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:23.200
Thank you, and thank you, um, Castleview uh members and elders and uh also members at the Fields Church just for the indescribable privilege that um you have given to us as serving as your elders.
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:24.880
Um we love every one of you.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:30.960
We would give our lives for you and um just a joy to walk alongside you in this short life uh to the life to come.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:31.839
Yeah, amen.
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:32.960
Thank you, Joe.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.519
Um thank you to the Fields Church as well.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:38.799
Um, that we have the joy of caring for them.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.960
Along I get to do it alongside Jordan and you, Joe, and Jeff and Braden.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.400
It's it's such a joy.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:45.440
Thank you.
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:46.480
Praise the Lord.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:47.839
Fields notes listeners.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:50.559
That's our episode for today on what it's like to be a lay elder.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.960
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:22.000
Welcome to this week's episode of Fields Notes, where we take a deeper dive into sermon text, discuss matters of life and faith, and enjoy conversations around the table with fellow friends from the fields.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:27.760
Well, Fields Notes listeners, welcome back.
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:29.120
This is Joe speaking.
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:35.840
Most of the time on the Fields Notes podcast, it is me sitting talking with two of my pastors from the Fields Church.
00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:42.159
That is also true today as well, that I'm sitting here with two of my pastors, but I'm not with Jeff and Jordan today.
00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:42.960
No, no, no.
00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:44.320
Oh no, I've already messed up.
00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:45.759
I'm not with Jeff and Braden.
00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:51.920
I'm with Jim and Jordan, uh, two of our lay elders, lay pastors at the Fields Church.
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Jim and Jordan, say hello.
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:55.039
Hello, Joe.
00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:55.840
Thanks for having us.
00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.439
It's such a joy to be here with you.
00:00:57.759 --> 00:00:58.479
Hey, Joe.
00:00:58.640 --> 00:00:59.280
Good to be here.
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:00.560
The joy is all mine.
00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.079
Um, we're so thankful for you guys.
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.159
If you're uh listening, you probably saw the title to this.
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:08.319
The we're we're calling this podcast, What's It Like to Be a Lay Elder?
00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:14.719
So, Jim and Jordan are our um two of our four pastor elders uh at our church, and uh they're our lay elders.
00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:21.840
They don't get paid by the church, they um serve as pastors, as elders in our church um in the time that they have in that.
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:23.120
So we're so thankful for you guys.
00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:35.599
Uh Jim and Jordan, just uh briefly, a lot of people in our church know you, but um, yeah, briefly tell us a little bit about yourselves, your families, your jobs, um, how long you've been lay elders for, maybe a fun fact about you.
00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:37.599
Anything else you want to throw in as well?
00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:39.599
So uh this is Jim.
00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:45.439
I uh married to my wife, my wonderful wife Nancy, and uh we have four children.
00:01:45.519 --> 00:01:52.799
It's it's kind of strange to call them children because uh some of them are adults at this point, and I guess adult children, half of them anyway.
00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:59.200
Um, so uh four boy, four kids, two boys, two girls, boys on they book in the girls.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:06.239
So Alex is um graduated from college and in his own apartment, and Annabelle is at Taylor University.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:13.120
Uh Eleanor and Peter are in high school and they're in their teens, and Eleanor will soon be going to college, uh little.
00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:14.479
Which is crazy.
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:15.039
Yeah.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:17.120
Jim, what do you do for work?
00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:18.560
Um, I work at a bank.
00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:20.080
That's the easiest way to explain it.
00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:24.719
Jim runs the merchant's capital realm, is what I tell people.
00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:26.159
Jim's in charge at Merchants Capital.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:27.039
I know there's other things to do.
00:02:27.360 --> 00:02:27.840
I wish.
00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:28.319
Yeah.
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:29.120
Very cool.
00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.199
Maybe a fun fact about you, Jim.
00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:32.639
Uh fun fact.
00:02:32.719 --> 00:02:34.560
So we were bouncing these ideas around.
00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:37.120
Um facts are always hard to the dinner table.
00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:37.680
Right.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:38.960
Yeah, there's so many, right?
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:41.199
Um, I don't know that I have too many fun facts.
00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:43.360
Mine are usually just boring facts.
00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:48.800
Um, I'll switch uh the one that I kind of landed on was that um I have a bit of a sweet tooth.
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:56.800
Um I'm very grateful for my wife who loves to bake and fills our house with all sorts of wonderful sweet treats to enjoy.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:03.120
Um, so I have to exercise a lot of um of discipline and not filling myself with all of those.
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:12.879
But um early on in our marriage, um, when I would go out to mother yard, a lot of times like I was addicted to those little vanilla wafer cookies, kind of like Oreos, but they're vanilla.
00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:13.120
Uh-huh.
00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:15.280
And I would eat like entire sleeves of those.
00:03:15.439 --> 00:03:25.599
Um, and um, so sometimes when I'd go out to mother yard, I'd fill a pocket with those cookies, and just as I'm going around mowing the yard, I would reach in and grab a cookie and uh and enjoy it.
00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:27.919
And uh yeah, just a nice sweet treat.
00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.039
And uh my kids like to make fun of me for doing that.
00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:32.080
I did not know that.
00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:34.879
Jim, the the cookie eating lawn mowing guy.
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:36.240
That's that's great.
00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.400
I've since moved on from that, so I don't I don't stuff my pockets with cookies anymore.
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:41.360
You might have inspired me.
00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:42.960
I might have to add that to my routine.
00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:43.360
I don't know.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.520
Every once in a while I might show up at a uh basketball game with a pocket full of Skittles.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:47.919
Uh-huh.
00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:48.319
Yeah.
00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:49.840
We'll we'll be checking.
00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:51.680
Jim, how long have you been a lay elder for?
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:56.479
Both both at uh Castleview, your previous church, and at the Fields, if you can do some math.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:03:57.919
I don't know if how quick you can think of that.
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:04.879
Yeah, so to Fields Church, I think we're going uh we're just past three years as lay elders um at Castleview.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:09.120
Um, I'm just guessing here, somewhere around 13 or 14 years.
00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:09.759
Okay.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:10.400
Wow.
00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:11.840
So yeah.
00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:13.039
Jim, thanks.
00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:14.400
Jordan, how about you?
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.279
Uh Jordan, you've got too many kids to count anymore.
00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:18.240
Yeah.
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:19.839
We got them all over the place.
00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:24.000
Uh so Kate and I have been married 18 years this May, 23rd.
00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:29.040
Um, and we have six children from 15 down to uh two months old.
00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.279
Uh I work in the public sector.
00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:33.360
I've been a lay elder combined.
00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:35.839
Uh I I think I'm in my 12th year.
00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:43.680
Um, and a fun fact about me uh Kate and I have actually been married twice without getting divorced.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:44.399
What?
00:04:44.639 --> 00:04:46.959
Without any annulments or anything like that.
00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:48.079
Uh do tell.
00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:53.680
Follow-up story maybe for another time in its fullness, but uh we have to just come up to you and ask you this.
00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:54.399
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:54.480 --> 00:04:55.439
I'll share the story.
00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.639
But uh so uh sometimes I call her my second wife.
00:04:58.879 --> 00:04:59.360
Wow.
00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.399
Yeah, and she is my second wife and my first.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:03.439
I'm very curious.
00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:05.040
I'm very curious about this.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.439
I don't know if I won't be able to focus the rest.
00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:08.480
Well, it'll be all right.
00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.160
Jim Jordan, thanks guys for being here.
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:12.800
Uh maybe briefly, and I kind of uh talked a little bit in the intro.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.639
We really in our tree church use uh elder and pastor interchangeably.
00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:24.000
Sometimes it's helpful uh that we use the word pastor for uh on staff pastors who are paid and lay elder for elders who are not on staff.
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:26.800
Really, we they're they're interchangeable in in our eyes.
00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.879
But maybe if you guys should share briefly, what do elders and pastors do?
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.560
How do you see your job, your role in our church?
00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:39.839
Well, um, three words are used in the New Testament to capture what elders do.
00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:44.480
Uh the first word is presbyteros, which we translate to be elder.
00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:53.680
It doesn't necessarily mean an old man, uh, but a mature Christian man, a seasoned man uh who's not a new convert.
00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:58.480
Um episcopas is another one, the word that we translate that to is overseer.
00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:10.399
So think authority, supervisor, uh, one who provides guidance, um supervision, and then uh the last one is poimain, which is shepherd uh or pastor.
00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:29.279
Pastor is just a fancy word for shepherd, uh, which captures the the component of care, nourishment, feeding, protecting, um, guidance as well, but uh done with tenderness and gentleness and great love and affection, uh, sacrifice, discomfort.
00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:36.879
Uh so the thing is about that, to answer your question, is that all three of these words are used interchangeably in different places in the New Testament.
00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:47.920
Um so Acts 20, Paul calls the elders of the church to come to him, and then he says that the Holy Spirit has made them overseers uh in order to shepherd the church of God.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:50.560
So he got all three of those words about the same office.
00:06:50.720 --> 00:07:01.920
Uh Titus 1, um five through seven, the Apostle Paul uh says to Titus to appoint elders in every city, and referring to these, he he then calls them in verse seven overseers.
00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:16.959
And then I think first Peter five is probably the clearest example of this where uh Peter is calling himself an elder who is writing to elders, and he says, I exhort you elders to shepherd, and then he says, serving as overseers.
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:20.240
So you have all three of those words in one sentence used.
00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.639
Uh so an elder is very simply just a pastor, shepherd, overseer.
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:33.279
Um the overseeing and the shepherding is done by uh these elders, these um mature Christian men, not perfect, but um mature Christian men.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:43.279
So this means that a team of elders should not be the nicest guys in the room who know everybody or uh the most wealthy or the most um prominently educated.
00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:59.360
Uh they're they're not Christian influencers or the uh the most affluent, but um they're mature Christian men who work together on a team um for the oversight and the care for God's people using the word of God in prayer as the means for how they do that.
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:00.639
Thanks, Jordan.
00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:02.480
Do you have anything to add to that?
00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.040
I realize that I should have gone first.
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:09.680
Um Hey, try, yeah, I'm welcome to my world.
00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:23.040
You're not gonna get the uh the Latin uh interpretation from me, but um yeah, just shepherd in and I think one thing that that I often remind myself is it's not my sheep that I'm caring for.
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:24.720
It's somebody else's sheep.
00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:32.879
So as I'm shepherding them, I'm careful that that, hey, I've got to give an account for what what I'm doing here and how I'm caring for his sheep.
00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:38.240
I get to see somehow you you guys care intentionally for uh us members of the field.
00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:40.159
So I'm so thankful for the way you guys do that.
00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:44.240
You um protect, you teach, you have authority.
00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.480
So we're um so thankful for that.
00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:48.240
Um a little bit, Jim and Jordan.
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.919
Um I do think uh in large part, I'll I'll just speak for you guys.
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:58.559
I think you guys are elders because the churches you've been in have recognized that you guys are are doing those things that you said.
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:11.360
But maybe for your own um just in your own lives, what what maybe were some desires you had or or um why why did you maybe even want to be elders to pursue being pastors both at Castleview and here at the fields?
00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:32.080
In in some ways I kind of fell into it in the sense that um I was digging, I was a new Christian because I became a Christian much later in my life, and um started attending Castleview and was reached out by the senior pastor there to do a study of systematic theology.
00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:34.480
And we did that over a year and a half.
00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:40.480
And um, as a new Christian, I was I was drinking this Kool-Aid in a sense, like freshly.
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:43.120
Like I didn't have to unlearn any bad theology.
00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:44.799
I just had no theology at all.
00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:52.320
And so this was all new, and I was hungry, and I was reading and just drinking deeply of all of this good theology that I was learning.
00:09:52.480 --> 00:10:01.039
Um, and it caused me, it caused me to have just an intense hunger for God's word and learning it and trying to catch up on learning all I could about him.
00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.679
Um, and then I had a desire to tell others about him and to teach.
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:12.159
And um it wasn't enough just to talk about him, but it was like I really had a desire to explain God's word.
00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:27.120
Um, I think one of the ways in which it has um has changed for me over the years is and I heard recently um uh John Piper said this at our at our pastor's conference we were at recently, that he says, I don't want to teach, I want to herald the word of God.
00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:31.840
Um, and I find myself just just having such a joy in heralding God's word.
00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:40.080
Um where maybe I didn't have it back then earlier early in my Christian walk, it was it was more so just digging deeply into his word and learning from it.
00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:46.480
And now I just I want to proclaim it and herald his word um to the people and to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:48.559
Jordan?
00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:49.120
Amen.
00:10:49.519 --> 00:10:54.159
I see a development and just in my own life where uh for me it began in high school.
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:57.519
I had a faithful pastor who I really looked up to and learned a lot from.
00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:01.600
And um, I just had a general idea of what pastoral ministry was at the time.
00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:12.799
And I I wanted to do what I saw him doing preaching, teaching, discipling, counseling, uh, helping the sheep, helping to feed the sheep with God's word.
00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:19.759
Um and um after high school, he affirmed me and said, Hey, I I see gifts and graces in your life.
00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:26.879
What does it look like over the course of your life to uh to feed this and to develop this desire that you have for pastoral ministry?
00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:46.879
I think probably 15 years ago in the years leading up to um serving as an elder at Castleview, I I had a more developed uh desire that I wanted to um give of myself and sacrifice of myself to feed Christ's sheep with his word uh to protect them from false teaching and um those that would harm them.
00:11:47.039 --> 00:12:14.960
Uh and then I think since then uh the time that I was at Castleview, I really grew and my understanding of pastoral ministry really deepened uh to a point where I I was able to focus on um the reality that God is the one who is the shepherd and he has made these glorious promises and he has broken into um history and finished his work of salvation through Jesus' death and resurrection.
00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:26.559
Um and there are many other promises that he is keeping now and has yet to fulfill, and he will do that, and he will care for his people and sanctify them as he brings them through this very short life into the one that is to come.
00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:28.080
Uh, he is the shepherd.
00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:30.240
These are, as Jim said, his sheep.
00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:39.120
Uh and yet what a glorious and amazing thing he has under shepherds that he wants to be entrusted with this task.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:55.840
Uh so just just really growing and deepening in my desire to serve in that way has really helped me have a perspective that I think is appropriate and just led to just an obsession um about care for Christ's sheep.
00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:56.720
That's all that matters.
00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.919
And um I'm determined to care for them, whatever the cost.
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:01.919
Um, and that's all that matters to me.
00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:12.320
I love Christ, I love his bride, I want to care for her, I want to see her finish well, and I look forward to that day when uh she is presented to him in perfect um condition uh in robes of white.
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:16.720
Uh and uh that's that is I I want to do that well.
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:25.679
Well, just to speak for our members of the church, we're so thankful for you guys and your desire to to to do that to care for us in in those ways.
00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:36.720
Um, maybe a little bit uh uh in line with the title of this podcast, maybe if you guys could give us a little bit of a behind the scenes of what's it really like to be a lay elder of a church?
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:46.960
That sometimes we can picture maybe what it's like for uh Jeff and Braden that they their vocational hours that they spend are uh doing ministry training and uh teaching and those sorts of things.
00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:54.879
You guys have full-time jobs, families, lots of obligations, and yet you're still pastoring, shepherding uh uh our church.
00:13:55.039 --> 00:14:03.279
Um so maybe talk a little bit about uh what kind of logistics that might look like for you guys in your life, um, what kind of time commitments that look like in some ways too.
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:10.159
Um, and then maybe how that even shapes your interactions with our church um being lay elders, if that makes sense.
00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:11.120
I can explain better too.
00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:12.080
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:34.960
Uh so there's a book called The Vine Project by uh Colin Marshall and Tony Payne, where um they talk about how Christian ministry is using God's word to help people take what they call a step to the right or a step toward Christ, meeting people where they're at to engage them if they're uncontacted, to evangelize them if they're unbelievers, establish them as early believers, or to equip them as mature believers.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:37.440
And um, that is what we do.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.679
We preach, we teach, uh, we evangelize, pray, we visit the sick.
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:52.559
Uh, but I would say the biggest difference logistically of what we do is we do that without as heavy as a load of administrative um activity.
00:14:52.720 --> 00:15:09.039
Uh so in general, our staff elders do a lot more formal events, meetings, planning, and these things are necessary and good, um, which our lay elders really can't get to because of we've got these other full-time jobs that we have to be engrossed in during the day.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:16.000
So we can't be at these uh like service review meetings or staff meetings or planning meetings or events that occur throughout the week.
00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:24.480
Um and our full-time staff elders uh do an amazing job with that, and not just our full-time uh staff elders, but our staff like you, Joe.
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:25.360
Thanks, Joe.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:40.799
Yeah, we've got others on staff that just do an incredible job, and um, lay elders are not uh as available for these things, and I guarantee that um we are probably limited to fewer coffee times and meetups early in the morning than our full-time uh staff elders.
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.679
Our full-time guys, they they really are full-time.
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.639
These guys are tireless, they're dedicated and devoted.
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:48.399
I mean, they're just moving nonstop.
00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:57.200
Uh, they're showing up and having early coffees with guys and then meetings all day, sermon prep, um, and then meeting and doing events in the evening.
00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:10.559
It's just nonstop um in a way that really lay elders are more early morning coffees, evenings, weekends, and sometimes during the job, taking taking calls, emails, and so forth.
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:12.559
But um that's me.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.919
Jim is actually an elder extraordinaire who does Jim, Elder Extraordinaire.
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.799
He does a ton of administrative work, a ton.
00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:26.399
Um, and he doesn't necessarily get to all the meetings, but he does a ton of uh administrative work that I could never do.
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.960
And on top of that, he's doing all the dynamic work.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:41.279
His home is like a hospital of the Fields Church, just constantly with a revolving door of people coming in, sitting around his table, uh, that that he and his family minister to with the word of God, people receive strength and comfort.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.559
Um, so I'm I'm really just talking about myself.
00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.080
I'm the one with limits here.
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:47.360
Jim's Superman.
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.799
Yeah, I completely disagree with that.
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.360
I um I I'm certainly not a Superman.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:57.600
Um and I think there's ways in in which you're doing amazing things, Jordan.
00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:02.879
Um, with with the little time in the day, you seem to maximize it very well.
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:14.880
Um, I I think I'm doing more eldering here at the fields than I did at the at Castleview, at Castleview as the as the chairman of elders.
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.880
Um, I was putting together meetings, agendas, and and things of that nature.
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:21.440
There was just a lot going on that was administrative.
00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:26.000
Um it's been such a joy to be at the Fields Church.
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:33.039
And I've spent more one-on-one time with members uh than I did, you know, at the previous position.
00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:44.240
And so um I have more time to spend with people and and and help them and to dig into God's word and and to see what it says about whatever they may be going through or or ways to encourage them.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.440
I get to connect with people and I and I and I absolutely love that.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:59.920
Um so yeah, you know, I I I remember uh a guy who um was a former elder at Castleview and he retired and he stepped down and he said, uh, and I asked, you know, how's his life going?
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.599
You know, what's going on as a Christian, but but not an elder.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:07.039
And he says, I'm doing more more eldering now than I did when I was an elder.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:15.440
And that resonated with me in the sense that, yeah, it's not so much what he did was um was administrative, and now he just gets to care for the sheep.
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.240
Um and I love that.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:31.759
And that's the thing that I love so much about being an elder is just just to get to care for the sheep and and smell like the sheep and be amongst the sheep and and have the sheep over to our dinner table and and uh to the hospital that is the greenhouse.
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:32.400
I like that.
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:40.000
So sick people like Callie and I can come in and have some of that cheesecake or whatever the the cake is that we've had from Nancy Nets.
00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:43.119
So um uh thanks guys for for that.
00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:48.799
I think it's helpful to even picture what life is like for you guys uh in a sense in this uh lay elder role.
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:56.000
Uh you I've some in some ways you've answered this question, I think, but maybe just a more specific, I think people would want to hear the answer to this.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:00.319
What is your guys' uh what's the biggest joy of being a lay elder?
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:05.119
And also with that, what maybe is the most difficult part about being a lay elder?
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:13.680
I I think it's the same answer to both those questions, and that is um caring for God's sheep and caring for his people.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:24.799
Um it's such a joy, and it's very humbling to have people come to you with their pro with significant problems and and um and ask for help and and ask for prayer.
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:32.079
Um, and having the opportunity to pray for them in those moments is is both sweet, but it's also hard.
00:19:32.240 --> 00:19:39.440
Um, and that they trust you to walk through those deep valleys uh with them and help them through it.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:50.319
Um in you know, Jordan and I have been elders together for a long time, and we've kind of we've spent nights in the same foxholes and just dealing with some hard things sometimes.
00:19:50.400 --> 00:20:00.400
And and you're walking with people, sometimes they're walking with you, sometimes they're they're pulling against you, and um and you as elders have to lock arms.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.680
Um those are sometimes difficult times.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:13.039
Um or or when you know they wanted help from you, but the help that they wanted from you is not necessarily the help that they're getting from you, and it, you know, they were looking for something different.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:17.279
Um and you know, we have to stick close to God's word.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:40.000
And um, and so when we're giving direction um or or uh uh counsel from God's word, and it doesn't align with what they expect, you know, sometimes the the the uh the sheep will bite um and you have to take those bites and and move on and and continue to care for them as well as you possibly can.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:41.200
Thanks, Jim.
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:41.680
Jordan?
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:42.960
Yeah, that's really well said.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:53.839
Uh there's a theme of death and resurrection in the scriptures that we know, and that's also a theme of the Christian life, and it's a theme of pastoral ministry, um, full-time and and lay.
00:20:54.160 --> 00:21:21.200
Um and so I think the hardest part would be some of the themes of death that we see, uh the destruction that we see in people's lives um when they are living in sin or unbelief, uh, people who can receive so much uh Christian teaching and discipling and uh so much hospitality uh and investment into their lives from others, and then um just turn their back on the church or um abandon their spouse.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:27.599
Um these are things that we've seen again and again that are just so sad and heartbreaking uh for us.
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:29.359
Those those things are hard.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:45.119
Um and and then the resurrection part I would say is is the most uh joyful part, uh seeing God the shepherd do his work uh where we know that that um God is always at work in the lives of his people, always.
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:51.519
Um he doesn't sleep or slumber, even when we're not thinking about him, he's working in our lives by his providence, by his word, his spirit.
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:59.759
Uh even when we're not aware of what his word is doing in us, um, his spirit is is working in us, and yet we have key times as elders where we can.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:16.000
Can suddenly see fruit in someone's life when they're going through something, they're locking horns with sin and they they understand the gospel in a new way, or um we see God's grace take root in their life uh in a new powerful way, and and then maybe they'll fall back down again.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.720
But that's okay.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:24.720
We know that God is real, he rewards those who come to him, he's working, he's the shepherd of the church, he's faithful, and he will he will do his work.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:34.480
Uh so those are the moments when it's such a joy for us, um, especially in times of of affliction um and adversity for God's people.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:46.400
Um there's a sanctifying effect to it, kind of like a pastor that sits down week in and week out, uh, is sanctified by the scriptures that he is studying and then preaching.
00:22:46.720 --> 00:23:08.079
Well, in a way, for us as pastors, as we are meeting with Christians in our church and helping them uh grow in the knowledge of God and and um and and their practice of godliness, when when we see that, when we have somebody that's going through grief or loss or another miscarriage, uh, and they look at us with those tear-filled eyes and they say, I trust God.
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:11.440
I will follow Jesus Christ, I will obey him.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.200
Oh, we we walk away blessed.
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:18.880
I walk away with with example after example after example.
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:20.720
This is what the Christian life looks like.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:22.799
Jordan, walk in this way.
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:33.279
I don't know who I would be if I had never become a pastor with all these examples of members dying, members going through hardship and difficulty, sickness, struggle with sin.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:35.519
Um it's an amazing thing.
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:41.440
So just to receive all the life and sanctification that comes from that is uh is truly an unspeakable joy.
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:49.519
And if I could say one last thing, those cases of death when people do walk away, they come back sometimes.
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:58.240
Um and that's another moment of resurrection where we realize, oh my goodness, all those late nights that we as elders were praying for these people with tears in our eyes.
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:05.759
Two years later we find out they come back and they they join the church or they join somewhere else and um praise God.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:10.400
So that makes those discouraging times a little less discouraging to know, hey, you know what?
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:11.440
God is a shepherd.
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:12.960
This person seems long gone.
00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:14.640
We don't know what God's gonna do.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.079
Uh He might bring this person back.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.640
Maybe we'll see it, maybe we won't, but we'll trust God.
00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.119
It makes those hard times not as soul crushing, if you will.
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:24.160
Amen.
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:25.680
Yeah, thank you guys for that.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:40.559
Um, I I do think maybe just as I as I hear you guys talk, a theme that I think I even feel in this conversation is there really is a a weightiness to the the office of pastor or elder that um uh you guys take seriously.
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:45.680
And I really appreciate that a lot, that you do not take your your jobs as pastors lightly.
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.640
So thank you guys for that.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.119
I think there might be a uh temptation to for us to think like, oh, we look at Jim and Jordan and maybe even Jeff and Braden too, of oh yeah, they're pastors.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:54.720
That's kind of a fun thing to do.
00:24:54.880 --> 00:25:00.079
Um there's a real weight that you guys feel in um being accountable for the souls of your people.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:05.440
And so uh I'm yeah, we're I I think I've said this many times, so thankful for the way you guys bear that.
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:15.759
Um maybe a note to uh maybe guys who are listening, who they themselves, the thought of being either a pastor or a lay elder, uh, sounds appealing to them.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.480
Like that might be an office that I would aspire to.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:24.960
What would you guys tell to maybe younger guys, maybe older guys uh who would aspire to the office of pastor?
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:34.480
What are some things that you would tell them as yourself, you guys self-being lay elders, um, to encourage them, to things for them to consider, uh things for them to do, maybe even now?
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.160
I think I'd say awesome.
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.039
You desire something noble, as the apostle Paul said.
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:41.359
Um, Jesus Christ is totally worth it.
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:43.119
Uh, and don't be embarrassed of that.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:46.960
Develop it, cultivate it, uh, expect to grow in your understanding of it.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:50.079
Talk about it with your loved ones, talk about it with your pastors.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:51.759
Uh, don't be embarrassed about it.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:52.720
This is a good thing.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:59.519
You wanting to be a pastor doesn't mean that you think that you're all that or uh that you're perfect or that you're better than anybody else.
00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:07.200
It just means that you recognize God is a shepherd, he's he's got his shepherding work that he is doing, he's got under-shepherds, and and you want to be one of them.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.119
Um and just start start pushing that way.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:10.480
I mean, I'd start there.
00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:22.880
Yeah, and I would say um go to First Timothy three, first Timothy chapter three, um, and start digging into those qualifications and just thinking through and um start living your life that way.
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:40.079
Um the the quickest, easiest way for us to recognize other other men who um maybe you know have a desire to be to be a shepherd, um, and that that we may start to pour into to become become shepherds are are moving that way already.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:41.440
They're acting that way already.
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:46.079
I I like to call it moving without the ball in a sense, but it's kind of like moving without the title.
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:52.000
You're you're you're just you're doing the motions without having that that formal title of elder.
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.720
Um, you're eldering already in a sense.
00:26:54.880 --> 00:27:22.480
Um, and that is one way that we would that we recognize that uh in in some men, um, even now uh at the church that we see some guys that are that are doing that, that don't have the necessarily the task or responsibility to do so, but I mean they do as as members of the church, but they're doing it exceptionally well, and they're digging in even deeper and uh seeking to counsel people and really help them because they have a desire to care and shepherd for God's sheep.
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:27.440
And it's like, yeah, that that guy is a first Timothy three guy already.
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:29.759
Why don't why don't we recognize that?
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:38.000
Yeah, and that's that is something that we see in the scriptures in um 1 Timothy 3 and um in Titus 1, Paul is talking about what elders must be.
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:47.039
Uh they must be this, or in Titus he says that um elders must be able to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict it.
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:52.160
This isn't something that these guys begin doing once they are recognized as elders.
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.960
They're they're already these men that are doing this.
00:27:55.039 --> 00:28:02.799
Uh so for men who who should be in ministry, this what Jim just talked about should be a comfort.
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:10.720
Uh and I remember I remember that being a great comfort to me when I was in college, and my pastor said, Hey, I I see gifts and graces in you, let's develop those.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.799
And I remember thinking, well, why do I want to be a pastor?
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.119
And I don't need to wait to do all those things.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:23.279
And I thought about what all those things looked like that I wanted to do someday as a pastor, and I realized I can do all those things right now.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.160
And and I just felt so free to begin doing those things.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:34.240
And I was, I, I was uh doing the things that a pastor was doing in a very immature way, but uh that should be a comfort for those guys.
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:38.880
Uh, and enter into a conversation with your pastors uh that that begins.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:45.200
And if they if these men who are interested end up becoming pastors, you really enter into a conversation that that never ends.
00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:46.799
Um there's some good books out there.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.920
There's one by Southern Seminary called Am I Called to Ministry?
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:53.680
I remember going through that booklet or that book with Eric Bancroft.
00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:58.000
Um, there's another really good book called The Path to Being a Pastor by Bobby Jameson.
00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.960
It'd be an incredible book to go through with a pastor.
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:07.680
But um I remember being um mentored by Jim at Castleview before I went into that um elder role.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:13.759
But the thing is, these conversations that we began where they're they're speaking into my life, they're asking me questions.
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:20.319
I'm being stretched, I'm being corrected or rebuked, um, I'm growing in my understanding, but also in my life.
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:22.160
Uh, these are things that never end.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:26.079
I mean, I I never lost that with Jim and Eric Bancroft.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.720
I I just gained that with the other Castleview elders.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.599
And I gained it when I came here with Jeff and Braden.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.680
Uh Braden was giving me some incredible feedback the other day on a sermon.
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:42.079
We sat down and I was I was growing uh in my understanding and um being humbled by some things.
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.119
Well, that that's what we want.
00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:43.839
That'll never end.
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:49.440
So I would say, hey, to those guys that are interested, join that process now uh and begin growing.
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:52.960
It will it will only help you regardless of whether you become a pastor or not.
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:54.880
Great call to us.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:58.720
Uh well, Jordan and Jim, thank you guys so much for being on the podcast today.
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:02.480
Um, if I could maybe even just speak on behalf of our of our church.
00:30:02.559 --> 00:30:09.759
And uh for those of us in at the Fields Church, I'm uh we we might not understand how blessed we are to have you guys as lay elders.
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:16.640
As I have conversations with people at other churches, even sometimes I read books about um elders, lay elders in particular.
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:25.599
It's just not uncommon for lay elders to maybe not be as theologically sharp, uh to not be as uh motivated, to not um to be all in like you guys are.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.640
And you guys are such a gift to our church in that way.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:37.200
Uh I I often come home and tell Callie, man, we we would not have made it if it weren't for the Lord sending Jordan and Jim with us and their families.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:44.319
So uh you guys have been such a such a gift to the Fields Church, such a gift to me, an encouragement to me that you guys are my pastors.
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.759
Uh, and I know many in our church would say the same thing in that.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:52.319
So, yes, thank you for your time here today, but thank you for all the time that you put into uh caring.
00:30:52.480 --> 00:31:07.039
And I think I I hope that people listening to this podcast recognize the the the effort and the the seriousness and the um the weight that you guys really, the the importance you put on your role um to protect us, to care for us, to teach us.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:08.559
Uh, we are blessed to have you guys.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:10.559
So, Jim and Jordan, thank you guys so much.
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:23.200
Thank you, and thank you, um, Castleview uh members and elders and uh also members at the Fields Church just for the indescribable privilege that um you have given to us as serving as your elders.
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:24.880
Um we love every one of you.
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:30.960
We would give our lives for you and um just a joy to walk alongside you in this short life uh to the life to come.
00:31:31.279 --> 00:31:31.839
Yeah, amen.
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:32.960
Thank you, Joe.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:35.519
Um thank you to the Fields Church as well.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:38.799
Um, that we have the joy of caring for them.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.960
Along I get to do it alongside Jordan and you, Joe, and Jeff and Braden.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:44.400
It's it's such a joy.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:45.440
Thank you.
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:46.480
Praise the Lord.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:47.839
Fields notes listeners.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:50.559
That's our episode for today on what it's like to be a lay elder.
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:52.960
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.
