Chargeway: Translating Electricity Into Fuel

WEBVTT
00:00:00.150 --> 00:00:04.995
Today, the process of fueling at a gas station is obvious, but it didn't start that way.
00:00:04.995 --> 00:00:11.099
The fuel retail experience had to mature into something people could understand, trust, and repeat without thinking.
00:00:11.099 --> 00:00:12.971
charging hasn't reached that point yet.
00:00:12.971 --> 00:00:17.184
And so in this episode, I sit down with Matt Teske, founder and CEO of Chargeway.
00:00:17.184 --> 00:00:24.669
We talk about why EV adoption isn't being held back by the cars themselves, but by how poorly electricity has been translated as a fuel.
00:00:24.669 --> 00:00:31.036
This is a conversation about clarity, friction points, and why explaining charging may matter just as much as building more of it.
00:00:31.036 --> 00:00:31.908
Let's talk about it.
00:00:42.484 --> 00:00:44.490
Welcome to another episode of Field Frequency.
00:00:44.490 --> 00:00:48.210
Today I'm joined by Matt Teske, founder and CEO of Chargeway.
00:00:48.210 --> 00:00:49.384
Matt, good to see you again.
00:00:49.384 --> 00:00:50.344
Good to see you, Jason.
00:00:50.344 --> 00:00:53.548
I was gonna say it feels like it was just the day we were hanging out.
00:00:53.548 --> 00:01:00.512
shared a stage recently at Electrify Expo for, what was it, about eight hours times two or something like that.
00:01:00.512 --> 00:01:03.746
I was gonna say two very full days, nonstop talking.
00:01:03.746 --> 00:01:12.510
But the cool part is we expose, you cover a lot, but again, with your podcast too, part of that is to kind of take the conversation we had there and where can we expand?
00:01:12.510 --> 00:01:17.783
How can we chat about it further, get into more rabbit holes and kind of break things open to see what we can talk about.
00:01:17.783 --> 00:01:23.992
well bring that same energy you brought to Electrify Expo, because you were a live wire that day, pun intended.
00:01:23.992 --> 00:01:27.743
Well, it's a combination of I enjoy doing that.
00:01:27.743 --> 00:01:33.766
I mean, I really enjoy chatting with people, especially when it's kind of this collection of different types of backgrounds and stakeholder groups.
00:01:33.766 --> 00:01:35.867
And also it's a consumer facing event.
00:01:35.867 --> 00:01:43.322
It's not what a lot of us in industry have been used to over the years where it's like just us in a conference room or a ballroom talking to each other again.
00:01:43.322 --> 00:01:49.564
It's nice to have the interjection of, know, every now and then somebody walks up after a discussion or during and says, can I ask you what?
00:01:49.564 --> 00:01:52.390
you just said or what that means or how I would care about that.
00:01:52.390 --> 00:01:55.262
It adds a really fun level of perspective.
00:01:55.262 --> 00:01:55.891
Yeah.
00:01:55.891 --> 00:01:58.072
You know, this space has got enough talking heads.
00:01:58.072 --> 00:02:01.436
think, you know, those that got something to say need to, need to be talking.
00:02:01.436 --> 00:02:05.459
And those that don't have something to say need to probably be quiet or, take, take a seat.
00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:09.853
You were one of those that have something to say because you've been around for, for quite some time.
00:02:09.853 --> 00:02:19.496
I, know, for those that don't know it, for the audience, those listening, I'd, I'd like for you to one kind of tell your story and you come back from a strong automotive background.
00:02:19.496 --> 00:02:23.805
But kind of, you know, just give us the background, but then I want to, you know, tell us the background of Chargeway.
00:02:23.805 --> 00:02:25.427
Where did Chargeway come Yeah.
00:02:25.427 --> 00:02:29.067
Well, mean, background wise, I mean, I've been working in the automotive sector for about 25 years.
00:02:29.067 --> 00:02:30.359
I'm actually over that now.
00:02:30.359 --> 00:02:39.430
Uh, started out in the mid to late nineties, grew up in Southern California, got into the tuner car world for the fast and furious world for those who just want to have it simple.
00:02:39.430 --> 00:02:40.480
That's what it was.
00:02:40.480 --> 00:02:41.800
And that's where I started.
00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.441
And it was all about modifying cars and tuning cars.
00:02:44.441 --> 00:02:47.800
And that was everything from the aesthetic to, you know, to the suspension, to under the hood.
00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:49.441
And, and I've always been a car guy.
00:02:49.441 --> 00:02:50.300
I loved cars as a kid.
00:02:50.300 --> 00:02:53.323
And so I was saw myself being a part of the automotive industry.
00:02:53.323 --> 00:03:00.356
so, as starting out in my career, it really turned into, what can I do to tell stories around a new vehicle type or a particular vehicle type?
00:03:00.356 --> 00:03:05.485
So that meant building project cars and specialty vehicles for the SEMA show in Las Vegas every year.
00:03:05.485 --> 00:03:08.890
Did that for about 15, 16 straight years I went to that show.
00:03:08.890 --> 00:03:13.492
Worked with brands like GM and Toyota and Scion and Lexus and others.
00:03:13.492 --> 00:03:16.885
Got a chance to work with some really awesome uh partner companies.
00:03:16.885 --> 00:03:19.638
Over the years, really great design studios like Five Axis out of Huntington Beach.
00:03:19.638 --> 00:03:24.542
were doing a lot of really cool Scion and Lexus stuff for a long time, but also just building products on my own too.
00:03:24.542 --> 00:03:25.913
And so that's where it was.
00:03:25.913 --> 00:03:27.474
It was about a passion being a car guy.
00:03:27.474 --> 00:03:33.879
But also part of that was working with brands like GM, Toad and others and OEMs, dealer training around this new vehicle that's coming out.
00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:38.364
What's the compelling story we're going to create around why someone would want to buy this car.
00:03:38.364 --> 00:03:44.056
And then how do you train dealers to talk about those compelling, you know, talking points and you bring those moments together to create a sale.
00:03:44.056 --> 00:03:46.570
I mean, that's part of the strategy of what happens in automotive.
00:03:46.570 --> 00:03:48.070
And so I did a lot of that over the years.
00:03:48.070 --> 00:03:55.343
And I just threw that lens when I really wanted to look at starting getting into EVs, that's now 15, over 15 years ago.
00:03:55.343 --> 00:04:00.884
And it really was about how do I take part in this next step of what's happening in automotive?
00:04:00.884 --> 00:04:03.453
And my wife and I got our first EV 13 years ago.
00:04:03.453 --> 00:04:04.706
I convinced her I wanted it.
00:04:04.706 --> 00:04:09.729
We went on a road trip after having it for about a month and I called the place we're staying and then they said they had charging.
00:04:09.729 --> 00:04:11.031
said, great, no need to worry.
00:04:11.031 --> 00:04:12.391
We'll just plug in.
00:04:12.391 --> 00:04:15.713
And it turned out they had a just an electrical 110 outlet.
00:04:15.713 --> 00:04:18.255
And I didn't bring our charger with us.
00:04:18.255 --> 00:04:22.788
And fortunately it was a plug-in hybrid, so it had gas backup.
00:04:22.788 --> 00:04:26.610
But I was pretty embarrassed and also just like, gosh, is this really what this is?
00:04:26.610 --> 00:04:30.533
But my wife asked me a very candid question that night when we were at that resort.
00:04:30.533 --> 00:04:32.605
She said, you're a car guy.
00:04:32.605 --> 00:04:35.367
So if you couldn't do this, how would I do this?
00:04:35.507 --> 00:04:36.908
And I thought, that's a great question.
00:04:36.908 --> 00:04:47.336
And that was really kind of the inception for what did I get wrong and what led to the inevitably realizing It's not about buying a new car with an EV, it's about buying a new fuel type and trusting that new fuel type to make the car useful.
00:04:47.336 --> 00:04:53.012
so Chargeway was born out of that because the way that we explain electricity, it's just too complicated for everyday people.
00:04:53.012 --> 00:04:56.646
They need it to be easier to understand and visualize for the things they might encounter.
00:04:56.646 --> 00:05:02.300
And so Chargeway is designed to solve all that using simple visualizations, colors for plugs, simple numbers for power.
00:05:02.300 --> 00:05:05.843
You download the app, tell us the car you have, we do all the math for you.
00:05:05.843 --> 00:05:07.964
And that's what it's designed to be.
00:05:07.964 --> 00:05:09.057
that's, mean, kind of...
00:05:09.057 --> 00:05:17.704
really quick synopsis of just being a car guy, but getting through the process of understanding how to create storytelling around cars and how that turns into storytelling honestly about a new fuel type.
00:05:17.704 --> 00:05:20.266
And that's really what Chargerweight really provides.
00:05:20.425 --> 00:05:25.189
Well, I like the way you frame that as a story because I think there is a story that needs to be addressed.
00:05:25.189 --> 00:05:36.697
mean, think about the first gasoline station early 1900s and the modern fuel retail experience began to crystallize in the, in the 1920s, the roaring twenties.
00:05:36.697 --> 00:05:47.653
then basically from then until today, the experience has been gas and diesel and what type of gas or octane rather on the gasoline side.
00:05:47.653 --> 00:05:50.865
And then there's a nozzle that's probably either red or green.
00:05:50.865 --> 00:05:57.468
And there's some ancillary and kind of hit medium to heavy duty and fueling that that that's in addition to that, but that's pretty much it.
00:05:57.468 --> 00:05:58.009
You're done.
00:05:58.009 --> 00:06:01.951
So we've got a hundred years of a retail fueling model.
00:06:01.951 --> 00:06:03.692
It's self-explanatory.
00:06:03.692 --> 00:06:04.613
It's repeatable.
00:06:04.613 --> 00:06:05.745
It's scalable.
00:06:05.745 --> 00:06:06.846
Consumers get it.
00:06:06.846 --> 00:06:12.418
Most kids know how to fuel their car just from riding in the back seat and watching mom or dad fuel their car.
00:06:12.418 --> 00:06:23.360
And so we're at a transition now and, and, and Chargeway and kind of what your experience led up to you founding Chargeway was let's get some translation involved in here.
00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:28.293
And so Chargeway, look at Chargeway is like a translation, translation layer.
00:06:28.334 --> 00:06:33.810
You're building a translation layer between drivers, hardware, and infrastructure.
00:06:33.810 --> 00:06:36.163
Did I, did I, do I convey that the right way?
00:06:36.163 --> 00:06:43.670
Yeah, I mean, honestly, that's is it is what it's doing is taking the engineering of what's happening on infrastructure and the engineering what's happening on each vehicle.
00:06:43.670 --> 00:06:52.367
And it's really tailoring it to the use case of every driver and saying, if you tell us what you're driving, we will show a personalized visualization and use case for your car.
00:06:52.367 --> 00:07:00.223
And that's taking all that math about what's happening with charge curve, amperage, voltage, kilowatt, kilowatt hour, all those different details that are wildly complex.
00:07:00.223 --> 00:07:03.857
And we just distill it down into you can go here because the color matches.
00:07:03.857 --> 00:07:06.528
And if you're at the green six, it's going to take you 40 minutes.
00:07:06.528 --> 00:07:08.629
If you're at the green seven, it's going to take you 20 minutes.
00:07:08.629 --> 00:07:11.221
If you're at the green four, it's going to take you two hours.
00:07:11.221 --> 00:07:21.709
mean, so it's all about having people have a glance at a map and saying, oh, this thing that I otherwise can't visualize, this visualizes what I need to know, which is, I connect?
00:07:21.709 --> 00:07:23.089
How long will I wait?
00:07:23.089 --> 00:07:24.841
And for example, what's available?
00:07:24.841 --> 00:07:26.151
We have real time status of that.
00:07:26.151 --> 00:07:29.473
And also what does it cost real time pricing for people?
00:07:29.473 --> 00:07:37.386
So It's meant to give people what they want in a very simple way that at a glance they can have all the info they need at one station just by looking at it.
00:07:37.386 --> 00:07:38.653
And that's really fundamental.
00:07:38.653 --> 00:07:39.892
Yeah, it is.
00:07:39.892 --> 00:07:49.007
Technology is able to take this new form of transportation, if that's what we can call it, new form of transportation and simplify it.
00:07:49.007 --> 00:07:55.870
For those that haven't been driving an EV, those that aren't in the industry, they don't understand, and there's so many unknowns.
00:07:55.870 --> 00:08:09.516
But when, so would you say Chargeway is for the EV driver, it's for the charging operators or the industry as a whole, or is it for just one of those three examples or is it for everybody?
00:08:09.516 --> 00:08:10.641
Yes, yes.
00:08:10.641 --> 00:08:11.463
All right.
00:08:11.463 --> 00:08:12.105
No.
00:08:12.105 --> 00:08:12.805
Yeah.
00:08:12.805 --> 00:08:33.249
you know, but it really it is meant to be a an end to end solution for the industry as well as for drivers and the way of saying, okay, if you're developing an electric vehicle product, whether that's the vehicle itself or a hardware for charging or software that's going to manage it, all those things, how can you translate what that product is in the ecosystem in a way that matches up with the other products?
00:08:33.249 --> 00:08:37.062
That's really the end game and By doing that in a harmonious way with stakeholders.
00:08:37.062 --> 00:08:49.988
that could be the automaker, then how they translate that to what the dealers are explaining, what happens inside the vehicle, what happens in automotive mobile apps, what happens when you arrive at a station, all that has to be far more harmonious than it's been.
00:08:49.988 --> 00:09:06.306
And what we do is we just take all that information from all those stakeholders and provide it back out then to a driver in a way that helps them navigate all of that disconnected chaos where they can say, I'm really in love with the Ford Mustang Mach-E or I love the IONIQ 5 or whatever it might be for vehicle type.
00:09:06.306 --> 00:09:10.028
And then once they choose it, we then look at that landscape of chaos.
00:09:10.028 --> 00:09:16.692
by, like you said, translating it, we run it through what we've built with our software to create an experience that is again, simple.
00:09:16.692 --> 00:09:21.823
So it is for both, both industry and for individual drivers in that respect.
00:09:21.823 --> 00:09:30.408
And we've applied our solution in both markets for we've got B2B relationships where we work with industry that uses our software to visualize charging.
00:09:30.408 --> 00:09:31.700
Explain it more easily.
00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:33.630
That could be a showroom for auto sales.
00:09:33.630 --> 00:09:38.592
It could be with a utility at an event explaining how they provide fuel now.
00:09:38.592 --> 00:09:47.339
But either way, those people are working with consumers that then have to have the ability to leave that moment and say, how do I take this information with me?
00:09:47.339 --> 00:09:48.690
And that's where our mobile app comes in.
00:09:48.690 --> 00:09:52.243
And it's all the same exact user experience and user interface.
00:09:52.243 --> 00:09:53.644
So it's consistent.
00:09:53.644 --> 00:09:54.543
And that's the point.
00:09:54.543 --> 00:10:03.408
I've thought of Chargeway as a gas buddy for the electric vehicle industry, which is functional shorthand probably, but also probably incomplete.
00:10:03.408 --> 00:10:04.129
I don't know.
00:10:04.129 --> 00:10:07.110
Where does that analogy hold or fall apart?
00:10:07.110 --> 00:10:09.682
Wait, I guess, wait, do you still buy gas?
00:10:09.682 --> 00:10:15.404
I haven't purchased gas for a vehicle that I've owned in over eight years.
00:10:16.894 --> 00:10:18.235
But I know GasBuddy.
00:10:18.235 --> 00:10:20.113
Of course, yeah, I mean, I know what GasBuddy is.
00:10:20.113 --> 00:10:23.177
I again, I'm in the car world, so I'm familiar.
00:10:23.177 --> 00:10:29.971
And I think that that's, I mean, that's an analogy I think most people can understand in a sense of like, well, what's the value that GasBuddy brings to people that use it?
00:10:29.971 --> 00:10:34.432
it's, well, most people shop for gas based on price because they really couldn't care less.
00:10:34.432 --> 00:10:40.238
about I mean, some people do where they're like, I want to have that brand because I think my car runs better on that brand.
00:10:40.238 --> 00:10:44.109
And frankly, those fossil fuel companies go out of their way to make it seem that way.
00:10:44.109 --> 00:10:45.681
we've got V power.
00:10:45.681 --> 00:10:47.341
We have tech Ron.
00:10:47.582 --> 00:10:50.684
Yeah, it makes your engine run better like new.
00:10:50.684 --> 00:10:52.238
mean, so that's marketing.
00:10:52.238 --> 00:10:54.149
And that's the marketing of fuel that's your point.
00:10:54.149 --> 00:10:56.011
It's been reinforced for a century.
00:10:56.011 --> 00:10:57.322
And people are very accustomed to that.
00:10:57.322 --> 00:10:58.754
So the analogy I think works.
00:10:58.754 --> 00:11:05.160
I think that what chargeway has done You know, our goal was to say, well, what else do we know people need to know?
00:11:05.160 --> 00:11:06.791
Which is, can I connect?
00:11:06.791 --> 00:11:09.322
We know there's plug types of and variation around it.
00:11:09.322 --> 00:11:11.582
So we got to make that simple to see.
00:11:11.582 --> 00:11:13.995
And then, well, how long am I going to wait for this fill up?
00:11:13.995 --> 00:11:17.596
And then that's where the number system comes into play, where you can start to learn.
00:11:17.596 --> 00:11:26.561
If I take my car to a, again, green four or a green five or green six, I know my experience at that is going to be X amount of time.
00:11:26.561 --> 00:11:29.533
And as you go up in number, it is a faster fill up.
00:11:29.533 --> 00:11:37.951
That's a very easy way to convey charge curve and plug type and amps and volts and kilowatt and all the ways that we've made it too complex for people.
00:11:37.951 --> 00:11:40.734
Chargeway is the Sesame Street of explaining it.
00:11:40.734 --> 00:11:44.368
And that is where Gas Buddy is great is like, yeah, it's just simple.
00:11:44.368 --> 00:11:46.551
It's just pricing the brand of the station.
00:11:46.551 --> 00:11:49.493
Chargeway is meant to be that simple at a glance as you just know what you need to know.
00:11:49.493 --> 00:11:50.173
Yeah.
00:11:50.173 --> 00:11:55.613
So you're talking about colors and you're talking about assigning kilowatts and et cetera, plug in your vehicle.
00:11:55.613 --> 00:12:02.604
I guess for the listeners, if you don't have Chargeway, you need to go to your app store and you need to take out your phone.
00:12:02.604 --> 00:12:07.624
Obviously, if you're not driving, don't do that, but take out your phone, download Chargeway and you'll see what Matt is talking about.
00:12:07.624 --> 00:12:14.394
The simplicity that's brought together into a simple platform that shows you the information and it's tailored to your vehicle.
00:12:14.394 --> 00:12:18.166
So, and you've got other information plugged in there about local.
00:12:18.166 --> 00:12:20.581
you know, what's there, what's at the site.
00:12:20.581 --> 00:12:24.533
not just a, this app is not just a price sign.
00:12:24.533 --> 00:12:25.245
It's more than.
00:12:25.245 --> 00:12:25.735
Right.
00:12:25.735 --> 00:12:28.457
It's very dynamic for what it offers for information.
00:12:28.457 --> 00:12:32.080
once you've added your car, we remind you of your car's plug color at the bottom of the map.
00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.961
We tell you the fastest number your car can request.
00:12:34.961 --> 00:12:36.332
So each car has a rating to it.
00:12:36.332 --> 00:12:38.624
So a Mach-E would be a green six.
00:12:38.624 --> 00:12:41.706
An IONIQ five that is older would be a green seven.
00:12:41.706 --> 00:12:46.967
But now that they've switched over to the new Max connector, it would be a red seven because the color of the plug changed.
00:12:46.967 --> 00:12:48.970
So that's always reminded on the map.
00:12:48.970 --> 00:12:53.302
And then when you look at the map of the stations themselves, it's just color and numbers.
00:12:53.302 --> 00:12:58.154
If you can natively connect, if you turn on your adapter, it just changes the color of the station on the pin on the map.
00:12:58.154 --> 00:13:00.289
So you know that, that's a green pin.
00:13:00.289 --> 00:13:02.981
I have to use my green adapter there because I have a red plug.
00:13:02.981 --> 00:13:04.999
mean, really just rudimentary stuff.
00:13:04.999 --> 00:13:12.881
But then once you tap on a pin, it has a lot of dynamic data, which is it translates your charging time for you based on your state of charge and the station you're at.
00:13:12.881 --> 00:13:18.388
So you see a charge time listed and that takes into consideration your vehicle's charging curve and all of that.
00:13:18.388 --> 00:13:20.038
But then it also has real time pricing.
00:13:20.038 --> 00:13:34.500
So if you are at 5 % you want to go to 80, it'll calculate your total cost of charge and show you right above the pin on the map, which is a big deal because you can then tap around and if you're at a shopping center and they've got four networks there, tap around one might be 10 bucks cheaper.
00:13:34.500 --> 00:13:37.044
And that's that's something that's not visible to people.
00:13:37.044 --> 00:13:50.730
So or even if it's not cheaper, if you're going to spend 40 bucks to charge your car and you want to get some shopping in or some eating in while you're doing that, the map is there to help you make the decision that's right for you in that moment.
00:13:50.754 --> 00:13:51.142
Yeah.
00:13:51.142 --> 00:13:53.273
we list amenities with every station.
00:13:53.273 --> 00:14:13.562
So you can tap on amenities and it tells you how many feet away from the station a Starbucks is, or a Carl's Jr is or a Bucky's is I mean, so these are things that the the average consumer who's just like, okay, I need to know the basics that make me not have to think that hard, but I still get what I want, which is filled up and back on the road.
00:14:13.562 --> 00:14:18.807
And that's what we have not done well as an industry, we have made it far too complicated.
00:14:18.807 --> 00:14:27.773
And in the ways we have tried to simplify, we've just glossed over the complexities and people still have to figure out these things, you know, underneath that layer of we'll see it's easy.
00:14:27.773 --> 00:14:29.905
It's like, no, actually we're not being transparent.
00:14:29.905 --> 00:14:31.491
So those are two ways.
00:14:31.491 --> 00:14:43.067
think the industry is just, we've just done the public at a service and we've done ourselves at a service because we've dug ourselves into a hole of perception that is not one that makes people feel comfortable and confident.
00:14:43.067 --> 00:14:45.109
And that's what our goal is to take all that.
00:14:45.109 --> 00:14:49.416
again, the anxiety away and say, no, no, no, it's actually easier than you think.
00:14:49.416 --> 00:14:53.192
But unfortunately, the information that you've probably seen didn't make it that way.
00:14:53.192 --> 00:14:55.236
But hey, that's what charge that's a charge result.
00:14:55.236 --> 00:14:55.937
exactly.
00:14:55.937 --> 00:14:56.846
Information.
00:14:56.846 --> 00:14:58.570
That's where it's at about that education.
00:14:58.570 --> 00:15:07.278
mean, that's where this industry rises or falls on is in, is in the messages and the narratives and the information and it being conveyed in the right way.
00:15:07.278 --> 00:15:21.152
you know, kind of, kind of looking at the industry, got some industry kind of thoughts that I wanted to get into with you from, from the perspective of charging, but from the perspective of cars, if EV adoption stalls, I don't think it will be range.
00:15:21.152 --> 00:15:22.773
I don't think it will be price.
00:15:22.773 --> 00:15:24.173
I think it's friction.
00:15:24.173 --> 00:15:25.163
think that's where it's at.
00:15:25.163 --> 00:15:30.998
And that's really what I'm hearing you talk about in an address through Chargeway is all those friction points.
00:15:30.998 --> 00:15:36.592
And so what's the most invisible friction point people don't even realize is blocking mass adoption.
00:15:36.592 --> 00:15:43.892
Well, the thing that we always speak about is the fact that, you we always hear the phrase range anxiety, for example, and that's kind of changed into charging anxiety.
00:15:43.892 --> 00:15:46.514
And people are concerned about range and finding a charger.
00:15:46.514 --> 00:15:51.892
And I always look at that and say, OK, but let's unpack what all those things are related to when it comes to consumer psychology.
00:15:51.892 --> 00:15:56.729
Those are not related to the physical car itself, because the car itself can go 300 miles.
00:15:56.729 --> 00:15:59.389
It has a go pedal, a stop pedal, a steering wheel.
00:15:59.389 --> 00:16:00.320
It's got doors.
00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.720
This is not fear about the car.
00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:03.270
It's fear about a new fuel type.
00:16:03.270 --> 00:16:16.551
And to me, that friction point is the fact that we've already been talking about it is there is advertising and marketing and consumer conditioning around gas is important to have a car and those two things go together.
00:16:16.551 --> 00:16:20.870
And we have ingrained that into society, especially here in the US.
00:16:20.870 --> 00:16:22.326
It's a big part of Americana.
00:16:22.326 --> 00:16:25.253
We've taken gas and said, okay, it's gone now.
00:16:25.253 --> 00:16:27.193
Now you just got to go plug in somewhere.
00:16:27.193 --> 00:16:31.817
And we've done nothing to create visibility of that as a product.
00:16:31.817 --> 00:16:33.388
Yes, we have charging stations, sure.
00:16:33.388 --> 00:16:38.000
But UC Davis did a study years ago where they had X amount of chargers in the ground.
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:43.193
And they did a study with people and said, okay, how confident are you to buy an EV today and drive it?
00:16:43.193 --> 00:16:46.366
And a certain amount of people said, I'm confident or I'm not confident.
00:16:46.366 --> 00:16:49.240
You fast forward three or four years and they did the study again.
00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:50.341
This was done in California.
00:16:50.341 --> 00:16:53.714
They doubled the amount of public chargers in that time period.
00:16:53.714 --> 00:17:00.489
And when they asked the exact same question, exact same survey, the amount of people said, no, I'm not confident to drive a V also doubled.
00:17:00.489 --> 00:17:06.244
So what that says is, it's not if you build it, they will come it's, you know, that's a waste, actually.
00:17:06.244 --> 00:17:10.258
So it's about people aren't looking for electricity as a fuel.
00:17:10.258 --> 00:17:15.971
So if they're not thinking about that, naturally, they're not going to go into a showroom and demand a car that runs on a fuel they don't trust.
00:17:15.971 --> 00:17:17.412
And so that's the end game.
00:17:17.412 --> 00:17:22.592
Tesla solved that problem by making it like an encompassed ecosystem, a top-down ecosystem.
00:17:22.592 --> 00:17:26.883
And that's why legacy auto brands, Ford, GM and others just finally said, forget it.
00:17:26.883 --> 00:17:34.884
We will just ask and beg for access to that network so that we can just have our cars have reliable fueling sources because they didn't trust the other networks.
00:17:34.884 --> 00:17:41.680
And that to me is an example of, yeah, you built these cars with big batteries in them and threw them at dealerships and then said, sell them.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:43.342
And the dealer people went, how?
00:17:43.342 --> 00:17:44.119
Mm-hmm.
00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:45.571
Like, how do we explain these things?
00:17:45.571 --> 00:17:47.895
And we've been trying to address that now for years.
00:17:47.895 --> 00:17:55.920
And I think it's finally gotten to a point where the industry can't keep denying that that is a fundamental problem for consumer psychology about EV adoption.
00:17:56.050 --> 00:18:02.673
Okay, so Chargeway is succeeding at that education piece, information piece.
00:18:02.673 --> 00:18:09.867
With Chargeway, say, succeeding at rapid scale, who's getting exposed in that scaled success?
00:18:09.867 --> 00:18:13.800
Is it the OEMs of the charging hardware?
00:18:13.800 --> 00:18:17.054
Is it the CPOs, the operators, is it the utilities?
00:18:17.054 --> 00:18:18.787
What's going on?
00:18:18.787 --> 00:18:24.932
within those sectors or maybe there's folks pretending everything's just fine or we're doing what we're supposed to do.
00:18:24.932 --> 00:18:31.644
Well, mean, the winners that come out of getting it right are, of course, the automakers because their vehicles will be enjoyed more by more people.
00:18:31.644 --> 00:18:37.106
The dealers will have the ability to close sales on a car that they previously didn't know how to sell.
00:18:37.106 --> 00:18:39.201
And now they can say, we know how to sell it.
00:18:39.201 --> 00:18:43.354
The other winners are going to be the networks that they're desperate to get more utilization.
00:18:43.354 --> 00:18:48.758
I think that the challenge within the network side of it is the business models that have existed for a long time for some networks.
00:18:48.758 --> 00:18:53.241
It hasn't been really related to how are we giving people access to electricity.
00:18:53.241 --> 00:19:02.390
Their business models have been related to how many software subscriptions can we get for our chargers that allow people to check in on them and see what kind of money they're making for them.
00:19:02.390 --> 00:19:06.894
And that to me was a huge flaw in how we rolled out a lot of infrastructure.
00:19:06.894 --> 00:19:15.612
We're getting away from that now, thankfully, but I think that created a lot of issues because we had a lot of products that were out there for charging that people would pull up and they wouldn't work.
00:19:15.612 --> 00:19:18.996
And then you'd look at the charger and go, okay, who do I call?
00:19:18.996 --> 00:19:22.098
And it'd have a custom wrap with like a utility logo on it.
00:19:22.098 --> 00:19:23.640
And you do I call the utility?
00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.873
It's like, well, they installed it, but it's actually managed by this other company.
00:19:26.873 --> 00:19:32.568
And it's just like, come on, what, we did this to, we did this to the public and we need to take it like ownership of that mistake.
00:19:32.568 --> 00:19:33.307
So.
00:19:33.307 --> 00:19:42.403
returning to kind of the, the analogy around, well, when I was talking about the gas, the gas station, how gas makes it into the market, the retail fueling experience.
00:19:42.403 --> 00:19:56.038
When, when we, when we think about upstream and midstream petroleum, we're thinking about fuel terminals and refineries and everything that gets it in the 18 Wheeler that's headed towards the gas station.
00:19:56.038 --> 00:19:59.001
I would say everything up until you get to the gas station.
00:19:59.001 --> 00:20:04.500
and it goes out of the trucker, out of the tanker, into the fuel tanks underground.
00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:10.875
I look at everything from the delivery truck upstream from that as almost like the utility.
00:20:10.875 --> 00:20:12.886
that an oversimplification?
00:20:12.886 --> 00:20:15.056
But that's how I look at it, almost.
00:20:15.056 --> 00:20:37.586
I would say, I think that's a, mean, again, it's, it's a simplification of it, but I think it's, I think it's a fair simplification because at the end of the day, so long as the power is being produced and it's being brought to a physical location, the next step after that is what transformers are on site to translate that into a station that can be built out, you know, uh, where do you need trenching done to make the charters not be behind the building, but in front of it, like all of that kind of stuff.
00:20:37.586 --> 00:20:42.522
But I think you're making a solid analogy around it really is the utility that.
00:20:42.522 --> 00:20:46.135
makes this happen and gets it to the physical place where the chargers need to be.
00:20:46.135 --> 00:20:47.510
Yeah, I would agree with that.
00:20:47.510 --> 00:20:50.134
uh the reason why I'm kind of leading the witness here.
00:20:50.134 --> 00:20:54.195
The reason why I'm saying that is because where's the utility responsibility in this?
00:20:54.195 --> 00:21:01.952
Because it would seem that there's, depending on where you're at in the country, there's some ambivalence in some sectors and others it's, it's like, no, we see it.
00:21:01.952 --> 00:21:03.336
yeah, comments on that.
00:21:03.336 --> 00:21:06.568
I think the utility, I always say the utility is the new fuel provider.
00:21:06.568 --> 00:21:07.410
That's what I say.
00:21:07.410 --> 00:21:09.882
And I think, so to your analogy, that's what makes the most sense.
00:21:09.882 --> 00:21:11.593
And I think I agree a hundred percent to that.
00:21:11.593 --> 00:21:22.799
The challenge frankly that exists within that is in the U S we've got about 3,300 or so utilities, some of which are massive IOUs, investment on utilities that manage millions of people's power needs.
00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:27.032
Some of them are small co-ops and munis that manage thousands of people's power needs.
00:21:27.032 --> 00:21:37.480
And in each of those examples, each of those, regardless of the size and their customer base, they have to embrace that reality of, okay, this is something we actually need to be thinking about in those terms.
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:39.093
We now provide fuel for cars.
00:21:39.093 --> 00:21:43.066
But then how do they get that message out in a uniform fashion?
00:21:43.066 --> 00:21:50.152
And we've worked with, I don't know how many, mean, dozens of utilities now nationwide, and many of them are embracing that message.
00:21:50.152 --> 00:21:54.415
I think the challenge has been, some of them have said, well, we'll just do what we've always done.
00:21:54.415 --> 00:21:55.317
We'll just treat...
00:21:55.317 --> 00:21:59.540
EVs like they're an appliance and we'll just tell people, here's how your energy savings can work.
00:21:59.540 --> 00:22:00.250
It's like, no, no, no, no.
00:22:00.250 --> 00:22:03.212
You are now competing against fossil fuel marketing and branding.
00:22:03.212 --> 00:22:08.526
And as you point out a hundred years of ingrained consumer psychology, you need to bring your A game on marketing and messaging here.
00:22:08.526 --> 00:22:12.278
This is not repeat what we've done with other products we've helped market.
00:22:12.278 --> 00:22:13.048
This is different.
00:22:13.048 --> 00:22:13.878
It's a different animal.
00:22:13.878 --> 00:22:15.240
There's a lot that goes into that.
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:20.201
And I think that's where we've seen some failures with outbound messaging that have occurred.
00:22:20.201 --> 00:22:23.042
And the other issue I think that the utilities faces.
00:22:23.042 --> 00:22:26.913
the public utility commissions that manage what they can actually say.
00:22:26.913 --> 00:22:50.804
if they, you know, again, if there's a filing for, um, you know, a new tariff related to something that's going to happen on, a managed program for charging public charging, something along those lines, we've, we've definitely seen, I've seen that public utility commissions have shot down engagement efforts around EV programs because it doesn't, you know, it doesn't, you know, abide by certain parameters they have for meeting all rate payer needs.
00:22:50.804 --> 00:22:52.766
And they will then say, yeah, this isn't going to work.
00:22:52.766 --> 00:22:54.557
So you have to reframe what you're going to do.
00:22:54.557 --> 00:23:02.984
so really, really well designed programs coming out of the utility get watered down into these just ineffective, you know, programs.
00:23:02.984 --> 00:23:04.997
And it's like, well, yeah, what did you expect?
00:23:04.997 --> 00:23:11.192
You went from having, you went from cutting with a scalpel to cutting with a butcher knife on this messaging and it made a mess.
00:23:11.192 --> 00:23:12.586
And so yeah.
00:23:12.586 --> 00:23:16.067
You, you, you use the term outbound messaging.
00:23:16.067 --> 00:23:19.550
And I think that's important in other conversations, you and I've had it.
00:23:19.550 --> 00:23:27.145
We've, you know, I've made you call out the, uh, the idea of the great reset as it relates to our, our industry, our space.
00:23:27.145 --> 00:23:28.900
Um, are we in a great reset?
00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:30.721
not in the way that I think people think.
00:23:32.202 --> 00:23:42.044
I think that, I mean, EVs now, especially in the last, you know, if you really look at the last 20 years, we've had the opportunity to paint the picture for what these will be as products in the modern world.
00:23:42.044 --> 00:23:56.838
And it's in the last five years, especially, I mean, coming into COVID and coming out of COVID, there was a strong push, obviously, finally, by automakers, you know, that have been building gas cars forever to say, okay, we got a really bring our A game with making EVs and making this happen.
00:23:56.838 --> 00:24:05.164
And in the United States, was driven predominantly by Tesla was just ramping up in value and the height behind the brand and what they were building was real.
00:24:05.164 --> 00:24:10.228
And they were selling more cars than anybody ever anticipated they ever could.
00:24:10.228 --> 00:24:13.500
that led these, know, legacy automakers to say, okay, we're going to get the game.
00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:22.709
But I think what occurred in the last five years was a lot of just reactive product program designs that yes, these are cars with big batteries in them.
00:24:22.709 --> 00:24:24.691
that were then delivered to consumers.
00:24:24.691 --> 00:24:33.107
But the end game of how well does the software work inside the car to make it a really well functioning EV.
00:24:33.107 --> 00:24:38.592
And then also, what does that mean for the underlying technology around the battery and how it relates to charging?
00:24:38.592 --> 00:24:40.613
What does the infrastructure engagement look like?
00:24:40.613 --> 00:24:49.782
And we already hit on that, but that's why we saw legacy brands go from their typical strategy of, mean, Ford and GM to me were the best examples of, we have the Blue Oval Network.
00:24:51.084 --> 00:24:51.968
Mm-hmm.
00:24:51.968 --> 00:24:53.500
I looked at that and I thought, that's okay.
00:24:53.500 --> 00:24:54.301
That's marketing.
00:24:54.301 --> 00:24:58.766
And it makes it sound like you have something, but in reality, that's not a thing that you actually have.
00:24:58.766 --> 00:25:05.753
It's just a way to position to say, we've got a lot of data from these charging networks and we're deciding to call it this other thing.
00:25:05.753 --> 00:25:08.676
And again, that's how they, that's just how they know how to do marketing.
00:25:08.676 --> 00:25:10.858
They're just like, let's find information.
00:25:10.858 --> 00:25:11.429
Let's package it.
00:25:11.429 --> 00:25:14.045
So it makes us look really competent.
00:25:14.045 --> 00:25:21.069
And I don't, mean, in fairness, I just don't think a lot of people, these legacy brands really, I don't, it's not that I don't think that this happened.
00:25:21.069 --> 00:25:28.295
There's evidence that it happened, that a lot of people working on these programs were not living with EVs in way that they understood the ownership experience.
00:25:28.295 --> 00:25:38.173
And that's an example of a very, very big company multiplied by many of them having a lot of moving parts and getting people that had to make something happen, get it out, get it going.
00:25:38.173 --> 00:25:39.193
And what happened?
00:25:39.193 --> 00:25:41.906
We, we saw a lot of issues occur with respect to.
00:25:41.906 --> 00:25:47.852
product rollout, user experience, sales training at the dealerships, go down the list of things we've seen happen that went wrong.
00:25:47.852 --> 00:25:51.835
And the cliche of you never get a second chance to make a first impression is very real right now.
00:25:51.835 --> 00:25:55.627
And this isn't a reset in way of like, well, we just got to try again.
00:25:55.627 --> 00:25:56.439
It's like, no, no.
00:25:56.439 --> 00:26:03.861
If you think that we can try the same tactics as before, whether that's product development or outbound messaging, you are mistaken.
00:26:03.861 --> 00:26:12.909
Consumers have now been inundated with this for over half a decade and The ones that are skeptical are now becoming more skeptical and we're seeing OEMs pull back on certain programs.
00:26:12.909 --> 00:26:26.402
This is a different game now and we have to be very serious as an industry for EV stakeholders to say, what do we need to do to improve where we can to make sure we maintain momentum and also gain more credibility?
00:26:26.402 --> 00:26:27.143
That's got to happen.
00:26:27.143 --> 00:26:38.208
I think the legacy automakers that were looking at the landscape and then spun up a solution to your point, the blue oval network, et cetera, it was, Hey, we got something.
00:26:38.208 --> 00:26:38.857
got something.
00:26:38.857 --> 00:26:47.743
think some of that legacy OEM narrative was really looking at Tesla and what they did and how hard it was for them to get to where they were.
00:26:47.743 --> 00:26:48.884
And they knew how hard it was.
00:26:48.884 --> 00:27:00.604
And then looking at emerging OEMs like Rivian who brought to market a truck and an SUV, and then also was trying to stand up the waypoints or excuse me, the adventure network and then the waypoints network.
00:27:00.604 --> 00:27:04.166
And then, you know, the waypoints network shuttered and got scrapped.
00:27:04.166 --> 00:27:07.019
And so it's like, yeah, we gotta, we gotta outsource this.
00:27:07.019 --> 00:27:08.358
We gotta let someone else do this.
00:27:08.358 --> 00:27:28.786
And so it's, it's amazing to me, like with, with Rivian, I've, was seeing some stats and data around the used EV car market and the amount of Rivians that were on the most recent list that I saw, I was pretty I was pretty surprised by, I think maybe some of that was upstream from probably Tesla opening up its network to Rivian.
00:27:28.786 --> 00:27:43.538
But yeah, I think probably, you know, to have something, just to have something going back to the point of, you know, what you were saying just a moment ago is, is, is not necessarily the path forward, but then also if you're Rivian trying to stand up, your own network, that's tough too.
00:27:43.538 --> 00:27:44.028
my God.
00:27:44.028 --> 00:27:47.067
that's, mean, that's, have to give credit where credit is due to what Tesla built.
00:27:47.067 --> 00:27:54.826
I mean, they really, as a company, they were so far ahead of the curve understanding what the user experience needed to be to make people feel seamlessly happy.
00:27:54.826 --> 00:27:56.128
You know, that was a big deal.
00:27:56.128 --> 00:27:58.810
not to say they don't have their pain points within that either.
00:27:58.810 --> 00:28:02.424
I mean, that's why they keep rolling out more superchargers on a, weekly basis.
00:28:02.424 --> 00:28:10.480
but I mean, all that to be said, you know, I think that what we're seeing is, especially like with, you know, with every automaker saying, okay, we're switching over to the Tesla plug type.
00:28:10.527 --> 00:28:15.498
we want access to Tesla superchargers because we're waving the white flag on that one.
00:28:15.498 --> 00:28:20.640
um I think that frankly was a good thing because the connector design is more elegant.
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.871
It's the same as at home, as away from home basically.
00:28:22.871 --> 00:28:24.882
It's just easier to use for everybody.
00:28:24.882 --> 00:28:26.832
You can tell it wasn't designed by a committee.
00:28:26.832 --> 00:28:29.502
It was designed with intent.
00:28:29.502 --> 00:28:31.450
that's OK, the best product design won there.
00:28:31.450 --> 00:28:39.137
It's like, But ironically, I don't think that was the reason why Ford and GM and others decided to say we're switching to the Tesla connector.
00:28:39.137 --> 00:28:42.260
It wasn't because they were even thinking about the connector type.
00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:45.303
They just wanted to have access to reliable fueling.
00:28:45.505 --> 00:28:46.405
That was it.
00:28:46.405 --> 00:28:49.148
And it just so happens that it is also a better plug design.
00:28:49.148 --> 00:29:03.064
I think what we're again, in that respect, I think what the challenge that is going to maintain being real moving forward is that we now have political headwinds, obviously, as an industry that is the narrative around Is the federal government supporting EVs and EV infrastructure?
00:29:03.064 --> 00:29:03.756
The answer is no.
00:29:03.756 --> 00:29:10.852
And in turn, a lot of legacy auto brands have gotten right back into line saying, oh, let's, let's reduce submission standards.
00:29:10.852 --> 00:29:13.743
Let's start the language they're using about, we're focused on affordability.
00:29:13.743 --> 00:29:22.592
We're focused on right sizing for market, all these different, you know, kind of code words for we're just going to pivot because that's where the political landscape looks that benefits us.
00:29:22.592 --> 00:29:23.712
And I get it.
00:29:23.712 --> 00:29:32.511
That's business, but that's where I just, take issue with the fact of just how much weight we put behind these types of announcements we've seen the last five years.
00:29:32.511 --> 00:29:38.970
I think there was so much hype and excitement that, know, GM's EV battery day that happened right before COVID hit.
00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:43.742
And I remember when, I mean, a lot of people I know that are, you know, journalists were there and I was like, what's your take?
00:29:43.742 --> 00:29:46.836
And they're like, it all sounded great, but like, where is it at?
00:29:46.836 --> 00:29:55.116
And GM is still, again, I mean, I'm beating up on them a little bit, but they're still producing, I mean, they got Blazer in market, they've got Equinox in market, they've got...
00:29:55.116 --> 00:30:01.977
I'm not a huge fan of the Hummer Silverado approaches because I just don't know if that's ever going to really pan out until we get better energy-densing the battery packs.
00:30:01.977 --> 00:30:05.076
But Cadillac is now over 50 % electric in their sales volume.
00:30:05.076 --> 00:30:10.167
So they've got some strong evidence to show that they were in the right direction.
00:30:10.167 --> 00:30:15.618
But then you see what Ford's been announcing even today about how much they're peeling back and canceling.
00:30:15.618 --> 00:30:23.981
for me, I just got to go, OK, at what point do we just say, OK, how much of this is reality or how much of this is always just PR in the moment?
00:30:24.211 --> 00:30:26.839
I mean, again, I'm just asking that question openly.
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:32.404
Well, and then it's almost like we've seen Ford say we're drawing back.
00:30:32.404 --> 00:30:33.714
No, we're going forward.
00:30:33.714 --> 00:30:34.875
No, we're drawing back.
00:30:34.875 --> 00:30:40.471
I feel like we've almost heard that message, especially around the lightning more than once.
00:30:40.471 --> 00:30:41.530
We're going to do it.
00:30:41.530 --> 00:30:42.059
No.
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:42.583
Yeah.
00:30:42.583 --> 00:30:44.022
today, it seems like it's totally done.
00:30:44.022 --> 00:30:46.095
I mean, from what from what they announced.
00:30:46.095 --> 00:30:51.536
so, yeah, I I got to be honest, it's just the global landscape of transportation is going electric.
00:30:51.536 --> 00:30:53.646
I mean, look at the sales numbers in India.
00:30:53.646 --> 00:31:01.650
I mean, as a country, I mean, and look at what's happened in China, obviously, with all the advancements that they've made, that's hyper saturated.
00:31:01.650 --> 00:31:03.561
I mean, there's going to be some shakeout there.
00:31:03.561 --> 00:31:07.054
But again, you look at brands like BYD, they're now selling in Mexico.
00:31:07.054 --> 00:31:12.845
And I had lunch with a family friend today who said, yeah, I saw BYD when I was down in Mexico recently.
00:31:12.845 --> 00:31:14.564
That was a really cool car.
00:31:14.564 --> 00:31:17.444
said, yeah, when's it going to be here?
00:31:17.444 --> 00:31:18.265
I don't know.
00:31:18.265 --> 00:31:20.944
But if it comes here, that's the competition and that's the challenge.
00:31:20.944 --> 00:31:27.596
And I think what's concerning to me about the legacy auto brands, especially the ones we have here in the US, is that they have to compete globally.
00:31:27.596 --> 00:31:33.837
And unless they are truly innovating and not being reactive, there's a very big concern that I have for what that means for their future.
00:31:33.837 --> 00:31:37.410
Is it they're just going to say, sell in the United States?
00:31:37.410 --> 00:31:47.066
I I was chatting with John Volcker today about some of his take on what the Ford announcements and even some comments he had made publicly about, does this mean for the future of these companies?
00:31:47.066 --> 00:31:49.077
Is it that they're just going to say that's who we are?
00:31:49.077 --> 00:31:51.259
And yeah, I think it's a big concern.
00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:52.578
I really, really do.
00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:59.654
Well, the mess, the inconsistent messaging isn't going to help mass adoption by any hand, by any means.
00:31:59.654 --> 00:32:04.228
It's, it's just, it keeps it's that two steps forward, three steps back.
00:32:04.228 --> 00:32:06.449
However you want to frame that it's, it's not good.
00:32:06.449 --> 00:32:07.368
doesn't look good.
00:32:07.368 --> 00:32:09.480
And there's options out there.
00:32:09.480 --> 00:32:13.002
I, you know, I think, and again, you felt like you're beating up on GM.
00:32:13.002 --> 00:32:20.748
feel like maybe I'm beating up on Ford, not intending to, but I remember they were going to, they were going to let Rivian design the Lincoln EV.
00:32:20.748 --> 00:32:25.230
which somehow got scrapped and they invested in Rivian and then they backed out.
00:32:25.230 --> 00:32:29.471
Maybe because Ford was planning to do it, do it on their own the whole time.
00:32:29.471 --> 00:32:32.843
I don't really know, but it's that, that two steps forward, three steps back.
00:32:32.843 --> 00:32:37.055
That's not, that's not helping move this industry towards maturation.
00:32:37.055 --> 00:32:45.356
But then, like you said, GM's growth, I'm seeing lyrics, the Cadillac lyric, I'm seeing those pretty frequently now.
00:32:45.356 --> 00:32:46.890
So the products are out there.
00:32:46.890 --> 00:32:49.593
think that that's the thing is the products are out there.
00:32:49.593 --> 00:32:53.837
And again, you think about like the amount of plug-in cars on the market today, it's over a hundred models you can choose from now.
00:32:53.837 --> 00:32:58.554
It's the variety that people were desperate for seven, 10 years ago.
00:32:58.554 --> 00:32:59.635
Hey, we got it.
00:32:59.635 --> 00:33:07.385
I think that it still comes back to the fact that I don't like the excuse I'm hearing that when we made all these EVs, I think it's what five models.
00:33:07.385 --> 00:33:15.688
um Of all the CD sales are happening only five models have more than 10,000 units per year sold It's something it's some crazy number like that.
00:33:16.147 --> 00:33:37.303
Oh I mean Tesla Y Tesla 3 I mean I I mean I Then you look at what some of the the newer comers and like that they were getting some really decent numbers a year ago like when the Honda Pro log came out people were like Whoa, like this came out of nowhere and I'm people that buy Honda's like Honda's and they were probably waiting to buy the Honda EV that they wanted it doesn't Again, under the skin of that thing, it's just a GM vehicle.
00:33:37.303 --> 00:33:38.903
It's got a Honda badge on it.
00:33:39.003 --> 00:33:52.340
Not that anybody that's buying that knows it, but all that to be said, there's a lot of just constraints around the fact that we've got five models that are super high volume and then dozens and dozens and dozens of models that are just kind of like, meh, they're there.
00:33:52.340 --> 00:33:57.134
And I'm already hearing the grumblings of like, well, yeah, see, that's the evidence that people didn't want these things.
00:33:57.134 --> 00:34:02.726
And I look at it I go, no, consumers are not going to rush into showrooms to buy cars that run on a fuel they don't trust.
00:34:02.726 --> 00:34:03.656
It's not going happen.
00:34:03.656 --> 00:34:06.419
the, and the brand that's got the most hype around what they've done is Tesla.
00:34:06.419 --> 00:34:20.028
And the damage that's been done to that brand in the last 12 months is another thing it's really the EV industry has to, in the United States has to contend with is that a lot of Tesla coattail riding is what was happening in the last five to 10 years for just EV hype and EV excitement.
00:34:20.028 --> 00:34:31.248
And you now have an issue with a brand that has a lot of tarnish on it because of what's happened this year, just through Elon's actions and people's response to what he was doing on the political front and things like that.
00:34:31.248 --> 00:34:33.340
And that doesn't get solved overnight.
00:34:33.340 --> 00:34:40.311
And, you know, Tesla introduced a super cheap model Y and a super cheap model three, and we're 45, almost 60 days into those realities.
00:34:40.311 --> 00:34:45.762
And from what we're seeing on data, it didn't move the needle much to get more people to come in and buy their brand.
00:34:45.762 --> 00:34:47.402
They've got some other issues to contend with.
00:34:47.402 --> 00:34:58.916
And now I really am so concerned that the rest of the industry is going to, because Tesla's got, you know, some issues right now for perception and things along those lines is they're just going to use as a reason to say, Oh, we don't have to worry anymore.
00:34:58.916 --> 00:34:59.657
Hmm.
00:34:59.657 --> 00:35:03.128
is not a major threat anymore because of these other issues.
00:35:03.128 --> 00:35:06.039
And I'm concerned that that will happen.
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.190
But at the end of the day, EV sales are still up this year.
00:35:09.190 --> 00:35:12.445
Amidst all that crap and chaos, it's still up.
00:35:12.445 --> 00:35:13.797
Yeah, yeah, you're right.
00:35:13.797 --> 00:35:27.947
And then of course, you know, brand image, notwithstanding, the network is still in place and the growth of that set of said network is still moving forward and it's there and you know, the OEMs are there getting a piece of that.
00:35:27.947 --> 00:35:28.407
I don't know.
00:35:28.407 --> 00:35:38.327
was, you know, you were talking about that a moment ago and I didn't want to disrupt your train of thought, but the, you know, I was thinking about the opening of the Tesla network.
00:35:38.327 --> 00:36:05.818
One of the things, I mean, that's been good for, I guess, the broader mass adoption goals, but at the same time from an experience, I don't know, I'm just thinking of whenever I go to Buc-E's and there's 24 stalls and yet they're all full, and then in most, 90 % are Tesla models, but at the same time as other vehicles come to market and they're getting access to it, the experience of the Tesla driver is impacted.
00:36:05.818 --> 00:36:08.500
There's that, that's certainly I think is an issue going forward.
00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:13.813
And we already seeing that there's, you know, certain test owners that are just not happy about the fact that they're having to deal with that.
00:36:13.813 --> 00:36:24.380
And partly too is because of the opening of the supercharger network, the experience that you have at a brand new supercharger, which they often refer to as V4 version four, it has the longer cables.
00:36:24.380 --> 00:36:28.623
You can basically park in the parking spot in front of the charger and doesn't matter where your charge port is.
00:36:28.623 --> 00:36:29.739
It just works.
00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:31.585
like you see some cars doing.
00:36:31.717 --> 00:36:37.411
Well, that's the problem is in the older supercharger stall designs, the cable length is designed for a Tesla vehicle.
00:36:37.411 --> 00:36:44.755
So if you're pulling up in a non-Tesla, depending on where your charge door is, you have to, and again, Tesla says, Hey, if you're driving this vehicle, this is how we'd like you to park.
00:36:44.755 --> 00:36:51.719
So you're not blocking too much, but they are acknowledging like, yeah, you're technically blocking a charger because you don't have a Tesla.
00:36:51.719 --> 00:37:07.208
And that, so on one hand, it's like, great, we have access to reliable charging, but there's this asterisk of If you're not driving a Tesla and you're at this particular station layout, it might actually be a bummer because you're going to block one, two, maybe more than three people because of how it's laid out.
00:37:07.208 --> 00:37:08.762
That's not a good thing.
00:37:08.762 --> 00:37:12.425
So yeah.
00:37:12.485 --> 00:37:14.347
Matt, this has been a good conversation.
00:37:14.347 --> 00:37:15.967
It's always good to chat with you.
00:37:15.967 --> 00:37:21.762
Appreciate what you've said thus far as we get ready to land this plane.
00:37:21.762 --> 00:37:26.697
Any closing thoughts, any words of wisdom you'd like to impart to our audience?
00:37:26.697 --> 00:37:34.782
Well, I mean, I think oftentimes when I when I'm getting a chance to chat about this, I mean, I'm critical of the industry because I want it to be a successful industry.
00:37:34.782 --> 00:37:41.916
uh And I know that that can sometimes come across as just poo pooing so much, but it's because I care.
00:37:42.918 --> 00:37:52.864
And so to that point, I think at end of the day, if you do look at the numbers, I mentioned before is is EV sales numbers are still going up, whether that's US or globally and globally, especially.
00:37:52.864 --> 00:38:02.641
And the reality of it is We, in America, in the US, we can't as a, an, as an industry, we can't act like this isn't something that's happening.
00:38:02.641 --> 00:38:03.521
It is happening.
00:38:03.521 --> 00:38:17.001
And at the end of the day, it does result in what happens as it relates to careers and jobs, you know, in the US and these longstanding businesses that have been part of industry for a long time that are important, uh, that we need to have as major players in this space.
00:38:17.001 --> 00:38:18.380
So that's why I'm critical.
00:38:18.380 --> 00:38:19.931
I want to see them succeed.
00:38:19.931 --> 00:38:21.188
Um, and.
00:38:21.188 --> 00:38:30.889
At the same time, just as someone who's in this industry, I want to make sure that the other stakeholders that are involved are the beneficiaries of the better decision-making for the players that can move the needle.
00:38:30.889 --> 00:38:33.309
And I think the OEMs play big part in that.
00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:43.914
And I think that, you know, new efforts on the network side as it relates to brands like IANA, which is again, funded by seven OEMs, Walmart, BP Pulse, Mercedes Benz, high power charging.
00:38:43.914 --> 00:38:46.864
These are all newer networks that are showcasing.
00:38:46.864 --> 00:38:51.771
We're creating a an experience that we know is more in line with what the consumer is looking for.
00:38:51.771 --> 00:38:55.505
And the networks have been around for a long time that are improving upon what they've got out there.
00:38:55.505 --> 00:38:57.579
That's all still very true as well.
00:38:57.579 --> 00:39:01.393
I think at the end of the day, we're at a very interesting part of all of our lives.
00:39:01.393 --> 00:39:08.911
We're living through a very tumultuous moment that's disrupting energy and automotive in the way that the humans have known for generations.
00:39:08.911 --> 00:39:11.713
And again, you rewind 150 years.
00:39:11.713 --> 00:39:13.005
We were still riding horses.
00:39:13.005 --> 00:39:29.246
And so it's amazing what we've done as a species to right now, but the way that we can create a better path forward for technological innovation, creating jobs, what does that mean for the, know, for the U S I think it's just really important that we don't lose sight of that.
00:39:29.246 --> 00:39:35.967
And so that's why I'm critical of anything that sounds like, we're taking a step back because we just want to right size for market demand.
00:39:35.967 --> 00:39:42.956
I just look at that and say, I think the public is still just not fully informed on they do have a fuel choice.
00:39:42.956 --> 00:39:47.369
And as an industry, we have not made that clear when it comes to electrification with that kind of confidence.
00:39:47.369 --> 00:39:48.121
It's not just build it.
00:39:48.121 --> 00:39:48.784
They will come either.
00:39:48.784 --> 00:39:52.045
You have to make it clear as a product for how works for them individually.
00:39:52.045 --> 00:39:56.869
They will then have a better understanding of the benefit of owning those cars that run on electricity.
00:39:56.869 --> 00:39:59.833
And to me, that's an opportunity right now that we can harness.
00:39:59.833 --> 00:40:00.974
And I hope we do.
00:40:00.974 --> 00:40:01.405
So.
00:40:01.405 --> 00:40:02.284
Good stuff.
00:40:02.284 --> 00:40:03.034
Yeah, it does.
00:40:03.034 --> 00:40:04.266
It's not negative at all.
00:40:04.266 --> 00:40:13.070
Everything, everything you're saying, no one can take exception to you because it's just, it's just aligned with reality and it's, you know, it's coming from institutional knowledge from being in this space.
00:40:13.070 --> 00:40:17.342
But Matt, thank you for, for coming on field frequency for those that want to connect with you directly.
00:40:17.342 --> 00:40:18.853
What's the best way to reach out to you?
00:40:18.853 --> 00:40:20.005
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn.
00:40:20.005 --> 00:40:21.264
I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.
00:40:21.264 --> 00:40:24.648
But for Chargeway itself, download the Chargeway mobile app on iOS and Android.
00:40:24.648 --> 00:40:25.407
Please give it a shot.
00:40:25.407 --> 00:40:28.719
You can message us directly through the app if you have any questions.
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:30.369
But obviously, you can use it for trip planning.
00:40:30.369 --> 00:40:30.929
your car.
00:40:30.929 --> 00:40:33.230
Add as many cars as you want if you're shopping for EVs.
00:40:33.230 --> 00:40:33.750
Give it a whirl.
00:40:33.750 --> 00:40:37.469
But can find Chargeway on every social media platform out there.
00:40:37.469 --> 00:40:38.320
It's just Chargeway.
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:41.820
And also, Chargeway.net is our website if you want to check out some more information there.
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:43.501
But I do invite anybody who's hearing this.
00:40:43.501 --> 00:40:47.052
It's from this space, whether it's energy or auto or advocacy.
00:40:47.052 --> 00:40:48.152
please reach out to me.
00:40:48.152 --> 00:40:49.751
I I love hearing from people.
00:40:49.751 --> 00:40:52.222
I'd love to know what others are thinking.
00:40:52.222 --> 00:40:57.054
I think we can continue to just improve upon where we've got gaps.
00:40:57.054 --> 00:40:59.224
And that comes from these type of conversations.
00:40:59.224 --> 00:41:01.891
Jason, I appreciate the time to just come out and have a chat.
00:41:01.891 --> 00:41:02.465
it's great.
00:41:02.465 --> 00:41:03.070
Thank you, Matt.
00:41:03.070 --> 00:41:04.882
Thank you for being on Field Frequency.